Messages in vintageHO group.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 1905	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1906	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1907	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1908	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: What I did today.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1909	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: What I did today.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1910	From: Glenn	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1911	From: Glenn	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Number Boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1912	From: Glenn	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Number Boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1913	From: Glenn	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1914	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1915	From: kilbeggan68	Date: 1/2/2007
Subject: Has anyone been thru this?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1916	From: jerrygart5	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: Has anyone been thru this?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1917	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Latest addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1918	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1919	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1920	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1921	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1922	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1923	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1924	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1925	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1926	From: Lance	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1927	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1928	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1929	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1930	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1931	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: 6V motor, was LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1932	From: Glenn	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1933	From: Glenn	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1934	From: Glenn	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1935	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1936	From: dhopf1	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1937	From: Lance Russwurm	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1938	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1939	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1940	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1941	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1942	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1943	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1944	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1945	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1946	From: Lance Russwurm	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1947	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1948	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Walthers Gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1949	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1950	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1951	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1952	From: Lance Russwurm	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1953	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1954	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1955	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1956	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1957	From: Glenn	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1958	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1959	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1960	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: More additions to the roster
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1961	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1962	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1963	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1964	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1965	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1966	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1967	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: The "Camelot" of OO...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1968	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1969	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1970	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1971	From: Larry	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1972	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1973	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1974	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1975	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1976	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1977	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1978	From: Jack Priller	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1979	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1980	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1981	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1982	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1983	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1984	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1985	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1986	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1987	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1988	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Old TriAng.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1989	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1990	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1991	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1992	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1993	From: Jack Priller	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1994	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1995	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1996	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge...and Other Scales/Gauges
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1997	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1998	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 1999	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2000	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2001	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2002	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2003	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2004	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2005	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: The "Camelot" of OO...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2006	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2007	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2008	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2009	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2010	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2011	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2012	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2013	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2014	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2015	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2016	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2017	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2018	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2019	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2020	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2021	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2022	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2023	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2024	From: Glenn	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2025	From: Glenn	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2026	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2027	From: Glenn	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2028	From: Glenn	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2029	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2030	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2031	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2032	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2033	From: oljoeoh	Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2034	From: Glenn	Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2035	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2036	From: Glenn	Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2037	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2038	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2039	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2040	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2041	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2042	From: Paul	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Looking for parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2043	From: Glenn	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2044	From: Glenn	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2045	From: Glenn	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2046	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2007
Subject: Newest additions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2047	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/11/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2048	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/12/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2049	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/12/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2050	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/12/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2051	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/14/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2052	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2053	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2054	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2055	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2056	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2057	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2058	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2059	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2060	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2061	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2062	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2063	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2064	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2065	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2066	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2067	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2068	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2069	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2070	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2071	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2072	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2073	From: JGE	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2074	From: rcjge	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Has anyone been thru this?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2075	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2076	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2077	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2078	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2079	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2080	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2081	From: Glenn	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2082	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2083	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2084	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2085	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2086	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: jodanjackkayla , I see a photo with a question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2087	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2088	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2089	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2090	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2091	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2092	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2093	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging - Att'n curmudgeon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2094	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2095	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2096	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2097	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2098	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2099	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2100	From: jodanjackkayla	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: jodanjackkayla , I see a photo with a question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2101	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Rescued Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2102	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/19/2007
Subject: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2103	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 1/19/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2104	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/19/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2105	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2106	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2107	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2108	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2109	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2110	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Soldering brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2111	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2112	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: More cars running.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2113	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2114	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: More cars running.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2115	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2116	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2117	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2118	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: More cars running.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2119	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2120	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2121	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2122	From: Tom	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Skeleton Log Car Plans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2123	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2124	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2125	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2126	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2127	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2128	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2129	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2130	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2131	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More cars running.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2132	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2133	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Skeleton Log Car Plans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2134	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: More Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2135	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2136	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2137	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2138	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2139	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2140	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2141	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2142	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2143	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2144	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2145	From: Tom	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Skeleton Log Car Plans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2146	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2147	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2148	From: Askerberg	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: My stuff posted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2149	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] My stuff posted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2150	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2151	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: My stuff posted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2152	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2153	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2154	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2155	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2156	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2157	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2158	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2159	From: ANDREW A GIRARD JR	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2160	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2161	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2162	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2163	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2164	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2165	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2166	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2167	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2168	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2169	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2170	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2171	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2172	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2173	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2174	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2175	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2176	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2177	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2178	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2179	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2180	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2181	From: Garry Spear	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2182	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2183	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2184	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2185	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Athearn GEEP questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2186	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: [Fwd: 1954 Mantua]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2187	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2188	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2189	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2190	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2191	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2192	From: busgrouches	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Shay Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2193	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2194	From: Garry Spear	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2195	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Lead Rot
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2196	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2197	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2198	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2199	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2200	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2201	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2202	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2203	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2204	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Vintage HO Scale Red Ball Kit INFO Wanted #4327
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2205	From: takefive247	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2206	From: jay matz	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2207	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2208	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2209	From: William Nielsen	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2210	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2211	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2212	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2213	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2214	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2215	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2216	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2217	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2218	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2219	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2220	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2221	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2222	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2223	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2224	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2225	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Old-Rare-Obscure
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2226	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2227	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2228	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2229	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2230	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2231	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2232	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2233	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2234	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2235	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2236	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2237	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2238	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2239	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2240	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2241	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2242	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2243	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2244	From: takefive247	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2245	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2246	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2247	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2248	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2249	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2250	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2251	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2252	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2253	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage and Prototype (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2254	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2255	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2256	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2257	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2258	From: bitlerisvj	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2259	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2260	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2261	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2262	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2263	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2264	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2265	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2266	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2267	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2268	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2269	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2270	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2271	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2272	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2273	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2274	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2275	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2276	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2277	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2278	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2279	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2280	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2281	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2282	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2283	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2284	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2285	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2286	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: 1954 Booster
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2287	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2288	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: "In Honor of Number 1" (re: 1954 Booster)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2289	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2290	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2291	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2292	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2293	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: 1954 Booster
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2294	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2295	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2296	From: sottguy	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Recent J A English acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2297	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: 1954 Booster
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2298	From: jim gerstley	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2299	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2300	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2301	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2302	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2303	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2304	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2305	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2306	From: Martin Rosenfeld	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2307	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2308	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2309	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: writing in red was Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2310	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: people paying TOO much for kits on ebay wasHow rare are wooden
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2311	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2312	From: jay matz	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2313	From: jay matz	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2314	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2315	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: people paying TOO much for kits on ebay wasHow rare are wooden
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2316	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2317	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2318	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2319	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2320	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2321	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2322	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2323	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2324	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2325	From: jim gerstley	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2326	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2327	From: Tom	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Help identifying these cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2328	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2329	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2330	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Help identifying these cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2331	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2332	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2333	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Recent J A English acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2334	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2335	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2336	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2337	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2338	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2339	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Recent J A English acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2340	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2341	From: nycrrmitch	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2342	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rail to the harbor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2343	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2344	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rail to the harbor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2345	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2346	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2347	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2348	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2349	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2350	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2351	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2352	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2353	From: Garrett and Libby Rea	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2354	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2355	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2356	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2357	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2358	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2359	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2360	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: --- In scalecentral@yahoogroups.com, "n9lge" wrote:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2361	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2362	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2363	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2364	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2365	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: --- In scalecentral@yahoogroups.com, "n9lge" wrote:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2366	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2367	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2368	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2369	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2370	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2371	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2372	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2373	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2374	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2375	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2376	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2377	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2378	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2379	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2380	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2381	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2382	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2383	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2384	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2385	From: pvande1@comcast.net	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2386	From: wallagus	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2387	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2388	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2389	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2390	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2391	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2392	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2393	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2394	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2395	From: jay matz	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2396	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2397	From: jay matz	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2398	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2399	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2400	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2401	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2402	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2403	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2404	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2405	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2406	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2407	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2408	From: Randy	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2409	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2410	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2411	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2412	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2413	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2414	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2415	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2416	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Parallel Thinking in the Past..
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2417	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2418	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2419	From: rcjge	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2420	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2421	From: jay matz	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2422	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2423	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2424	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2425	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2426	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Cover photo contest.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2427	From: jay matz	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2428	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2429	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2430	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2431	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2432	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreckproof train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2433	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2434	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2435	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2436	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2437	From: oljoeoh	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2438	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2439	From: rcjge	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2440	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2441	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2442	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2443	From: Ian Garton	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2444	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2445	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2446	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2447	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2448	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2449	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2450	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2451	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2452	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2453	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2454	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2455	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Another "rescue"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2456	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: New poll for vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2457	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Another "rescue"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2458	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: new poll for VintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2459	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2460	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2461	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2462	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2463	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2464	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2465	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2466	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2467	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2468	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2469	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2470	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2471	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2472	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2473	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2474	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2475	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2476	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2477	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2478	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2479	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2480	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2481	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2482	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2483	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2484	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2485	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2486	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2487	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2488	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2489	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2490	From: jim gerstley	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: dry brush vs spray paint wood model passenger cars-La Belle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2491	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2492	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2493	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2494	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2495	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2496	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2497	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2498	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2499	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2500	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2501	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2502	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: new poll for VintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2503	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2504	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2505	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2506	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2507	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2508	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2509	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2510	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2511	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2512	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2513	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Back to the box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2514	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2515	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2516	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2517	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2518	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2519	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2520	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2521	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2522	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2523	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2524	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2525	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2526	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2527	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2528	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2529	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2530	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2531	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2532	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2533	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2534	From: Don RIley	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: open door Athearn reefers. was More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2535	From: Don RIley	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2536	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2537	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2538	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2539	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2540	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2541	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: dry brush vs spray paint wood model passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2542	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Enlisting the help of a two year old...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2543	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2544	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2545	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Enlisting the help of a two year old...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2546	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2547	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2548	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2549	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2550	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2551	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2552	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2553	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2554	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Another question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2555	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2556	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2557	From: Neal Rammacher	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2558	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2559	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2560	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2561	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2562	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2563	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2564	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2565	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2566	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2567	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2568	From: bitlerisvj	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2569	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2570	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2571	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2572	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2573	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2574	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2575	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2576	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2577	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2578	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2579	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2580	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2581	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2582	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Mannor Gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2583	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Mannor Gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2584	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Mannor Gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2585	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Mannor Gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2586	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Fwd: WGH on Tour in Portland, OR -- February 17-18, 2007
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2587	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/6/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2588	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/6/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2589	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/7/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2590	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/7/2007
Subject: Oddball Geep
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2591	From: joeandrews1	Date: 2/8/2007
Subject: New member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2592	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 2/8/2007
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2593	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/8/2007
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2594	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/9/2007
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2595	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/9/2007
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2596	From: Askerberg	Date: 2/9/2007
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2597	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2598	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2599	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2600	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2601	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2602	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2603	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2604	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2605	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2606	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2607	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/12/2007
Subject: New Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2608	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/12/2007
Subject: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2609	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 2/12/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2610	From: Don RIley	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2611	From: Don RIley	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2612	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2613	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Manor car kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2614	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: New Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2615	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2616	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2617	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2618	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2619	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2620	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2621	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Manor car kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2622	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2623	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2624	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2625	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2626	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2627	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2628	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2629	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2630	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Fwd: THIS WEEKEND!!! -- WGH on Tour in Portland, OR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2631	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2632	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: New Finds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2633	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2634	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2635	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" Not So New Haven F
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2636	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2637	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2638	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Branford Hobbies New Haven Units
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2639	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2640	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2641	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2642	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2643	From: Don RIley	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2644	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2645	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2646	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2647	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2648	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2649	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2650	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2651	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2652	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2653	From: bitlerisvj	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2654	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2655	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2656	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2657	From: Mark DeGroat	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2658	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2659	From: pvande1@comcast.net	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2660	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2661	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2662	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2663	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2664	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2665	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2666	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2667	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Athearn dismal parts needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2668	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2669	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2670	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2671	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2672	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2673	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2674	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2675	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2676	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2677	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2678	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2679	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Doesanyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2680	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2681	From: Rick	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: OT: Posting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2682	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2683	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2684	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2685	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2686	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2687	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2688	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: OT: Posting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2689	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2690	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: OT: Posting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2691	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2692	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: OT: Posting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2693	From: oljoe@landolls.com	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2694	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2695	From: oljoe@landolls.com	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2696	From: takefive247	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2697	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2698	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2699	From: jay matz	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2700	From: Martin Rosenfeld	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2701	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2702	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2703	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2704	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2705	From: Dst8596587@aol.com	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2706	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2707	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2708	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2709	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2710	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2711	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2712	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2713	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2714	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2715	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2716	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2717	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2718	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2719	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2720	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2721	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2722	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2723	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2724	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2725	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2726	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2727	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2728	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2729	From: jay matz	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2730	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Mystery Mohawk
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2731	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2732	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2733	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2734	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2735	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: - I Think...B&O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2736	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2737	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2738	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2739	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2740	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2741	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2742	From: Dst8596587@aol.com	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2743	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2744	From: Imp Ster	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: new (temp? argh) home pic. (&, Central Valley data wanted)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2745	From: takefive247	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2746	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2747	From: takefive247	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2748	From: takefive247	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2749	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2750	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2751	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2752	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2753	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2754	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2755	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2756	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2757	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/19/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2758	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2759	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2760	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2761	From: erieberk	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2762	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2763	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2764	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua? And a Weird Question...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2765	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2766	From: Neal Rammacher	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2767	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2768	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Model Railroader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2769	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2770	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2771	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2772	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2773	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2774	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2775	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2776	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2777	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2778	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2779	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2780	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2781	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2782	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2783	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2784	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2785	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2786	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2787	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2788	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2789	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Moderator pronouncement ( was RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silve
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2790	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Moderator pronouncement ( was RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silve
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2791	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2792	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: Moderator pronouncement
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2793	From: Neal Rammacher	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2794	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2795	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: Moderator pronouncement
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2796	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Fwd: Re: HO-811 Power Truck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2797	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2798	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: Moderator pronouncement
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2799	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2800	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2801	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2802	From: ourbaja	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2803	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2804	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2805	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2806	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2807	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2808	From: Imp Ster	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2809	From: Imp Ster	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2810	From: Imp Ster	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2811	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2812	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2813	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2814	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2815	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2816	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: new (temp? argh) home pic. (&, Central Valley data wanted)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2817	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2818	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2819	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2820	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2821	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2822	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2823	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2824	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Any Good Pictorial Online Guides to Vintage HO Scale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2825	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2826	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2827	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2828	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Any Good Pictorial Online Guides to Vintage HO Scale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2829	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2830	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2831	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2832	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Any Good Pictorial Online Guides to Vintage HO Scale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2833	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2834	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2835	From: Martin Rosenfeld	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Another Central Valley Question...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2836	From: jay matz	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2837	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2838	From: jim gerstley	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2839	From: Phillip VanderHeyden	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2840	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2841	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2842	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2843	From: jay matz	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2844	From: jay matz	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2845	From: Martin Rosenfeld	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2846	From: Jay Matz	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2847	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2848	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2849	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2850	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2851	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2852	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2853	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2854	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2855	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2856	From: Phillip VanderHeyden	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2857	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2858	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2859	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2860	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2861	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2862	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2863	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2864	From: James B	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Model Train Show, March 11th , Cedarburg, WI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2865	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2866	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2867	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2868	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2869	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2870	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2871	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2872	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2873	From: wallagus	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Old open frame motors
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2874	From: jay matz	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Old open frame motors
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2875	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2876	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2877	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2878	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2879	From: Jay Matz	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Mantua 2-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2880	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2881	From: jay matz	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2882	From: rcjge	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2883	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2884	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2885	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2886	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2887	From: rcjge	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2888	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2889	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2890	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2891	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2892	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2893	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2894	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2895	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2896	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2897	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2898	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2899	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2900	From: jay matz	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2901	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2902	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2903	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2904	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2905	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2906	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2907	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2908	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2909	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2910	From: erieberk	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2911	From: erieberk	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2912	From: erieberk	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2913	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2914	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2915	From: erieberk	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2916	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2917	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2918	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2919	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2920	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2921	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2922	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2923	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short C
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2924	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2925	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2926	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2927	From: trainnut2441	Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: HO Scale Collectors and History SIG /Greenberg Guide to Varney Trai
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2928	From: trainnut2441	Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Bauer's Bronze boiler Streamliner
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2929	From: trainnut2441	Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2930	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Re: Bauer's Bronze boiler Streamliner
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2931	From: trainnut2441	Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2932	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Poll results for vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2933	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2934	From: mwbauers	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Re: New Finds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2935	From: Bill Daley	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Mantua Mike for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2936	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Fw: [yg-alerts] Update: Some Groups Members not receiving messages
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2937	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: [yg-alerts] Update: Some Groups Members not receiving messa
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2938	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Mantua- clarification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2939	From: Bill Daley	Date: 3/2/2007
Subject: Mantua Mike for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2940	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2941	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2942	From: rcjge	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2943	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2944	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro magne
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2945	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2946	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2947	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2948	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Train Show Video
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2949	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2950	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2951	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2952	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2953	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2954	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2955	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2956	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2957	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2958	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2959	From: rcjge	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2960	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2961	From: rcjge	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2962	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2963	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2964	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2965	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2966	From: jim gerstley	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2967	From: cnj999	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2968	From: jay matz	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2969	From: Dst8596587@aol.com	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2970	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2971	From: trainnut2441	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2972	From: trainnut2441	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2973	From: trainnut2441	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2974	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2975	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2976	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2977	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2978	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2979	From: rcjge	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2980	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2981	From: cnj999	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2982	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2983	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2984	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2985	From: erieberk	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2986	From: erieberk	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2987	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2988	From: erieberk	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2989	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2990	From: erieberk	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2991	From: Garry Spear	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2992	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2993	From: rcjge	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2994	From: rcjge	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2995	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Athearn couplers needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2996	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2997	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2998	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 2999	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3000	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: HO Seeker site back up....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3001	From: erieberk	Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3002	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3003	From: Larry	Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3004	From: Larry	Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: Congratulations Foothill Shortline Ry
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3005	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: E-mail snafus
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3006	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: Re: Congratulations Foothill Shortline Ry
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3007	From: cnj999	Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3008	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: 1957 Athearn dual-geared Geep
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3009	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3010	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3011	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3012	From: James B	Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Model Train Show Reminder March 11th Cedarburg, WI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3013	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: A Question About Champ Locos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3014	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3015	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3016	From: jim gerstley	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: selling off models and books
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3017	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3018	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3019	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3020	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb drives Mod 1 and Mod 2 in Sean's Folder
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3021	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3022	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3023	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3024	From: erieberk	Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3025	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3026	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3027	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3028	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3029	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3030	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3031	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3032	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3033	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3034	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3035	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3036	From: oljoeoh	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3037	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3038	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3039	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3040	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3041	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3042	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3043	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3044	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3045	From: oljoeoh	Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3046	From: jay matz	Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3047	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3048	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3049	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Marklin's Love Reborn...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3050	From: oljoeoh	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3051	From: oljoeoh	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3052	From: Bill Daley	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3053	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3054	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3055	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3056	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3057	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3058	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3059	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3060	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3061	From: Deano	Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3062	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Re: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3063	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Re: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3064	From: raymarinaccio	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3065	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3066	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3067	From: erieberk	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3068	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3069	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3070	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3071	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3072	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3073	From: Bill Daley	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3074	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: New PROOF of the Original Penn Line Whitcomb Mini Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3075	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: New PROOF of the Original Penn Line Whitcomb Mini Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3076	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3077	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3078	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3079	From: Deano	Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3080	From: oljoeoh	Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: New PROOF of the Original Penn Line Whitcomb Mini Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3081	From: erieberk	Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3082	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: CRUSADER
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3083	From: Bill Daley	Date: 3/17/2007
Subject: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3084	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3085	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3086	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: For you Penn Line guys: Penn Line HO K-4 Pacific Steamer Kit #270
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3087	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3088	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3089	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3090	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3091	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3092	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3093	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3094	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3095	From: cgls@btinternet.com	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3096	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBa
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3097	From: Lance Russwurm	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3098	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3099	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3100	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3101	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3102	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBa
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3103	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3104	From: cgls@btinternet.com	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBa
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3105	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3106	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3107	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3108	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Red Ball 50 Ft Depressed Center Flatcar Kit #4327
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3109	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball 50 Ft Depressed Center Flatcar Kit #4327
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3110	From: erieberk	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3111	From: erieberk	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3112	From: erieberk	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3113	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3114	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3115	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Strombecker Photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3116	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Strombecker Photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3117	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3118	From: rcjge	Date: 3/21/2007
Subject: Looking for Dave Spanagel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3119	From: erieberk	Date: 3/21/2007
Subject: Re: Strombecker Photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3120	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/21/2007
Subject: Re: Strombecker Photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3121	From: rcjge	Date: 3/22/2007
Subject: Hobbytown F-3 and Baldwin RF-16 Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3122	From: Phillip VanderHeyden	Date: 3/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown F-3 and Baldwin RF-16 Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3123	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3124	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3125	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3126	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3127	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3128	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3129	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3130	From: rcjge	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Old Athearn motor movement
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3131	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown F-3 and Baldwin RF-16 Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3132	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 3/24/2007
Subject: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3133	From: Don Grant	Date: 3/24/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3134	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/24/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3135	From: trainliker	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3136	From: hoscaleuk	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: new member (In the Uk)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3137	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3138	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: new member (In the Uk)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3139	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3140	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3141	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3142	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: new member (In the Uk)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3143	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3144	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3145	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3146	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: new member (In the Uk)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3147	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3148	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3149	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3150	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3151	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3152	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3153	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3154	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: IT IS A REAL COLLECTION. Re: [vintageHO] A big, BIG lot of vintage
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3155	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3156	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3157	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3158	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3159	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Unknown tank and passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3160	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Unknown tank and passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3161	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: HOBBYTOWN OF BOSTON update....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3162	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: HOBBYTOWN OF BOSTON update....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3163	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3164	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3165	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Unknown tank and passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3166	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3167	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3168	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3169	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3170	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3171	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3172	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3173	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re-kitting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3174	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: Glass beading...I need the set-up.... Dave! or anyone else...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3175	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3176	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: Glass beading...I need the set-up.... Dave! or anyone else...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3177	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: Glass beading...I need the set-up.... Dave! or anyone else...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3178	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3179	From: Chris Smith	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3180	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3181	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3182	From: Chris Smith	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3183	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3184	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3185	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3186	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3187	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3188	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3189	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3190	From: Chris Smith	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3191	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3192	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3193	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3198	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3200	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3201	From: Garry Spear	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3202	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3209	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3210	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3211	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3212	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3213	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3214	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3215	From: Garry Spear	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3216	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3217	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3218	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3219	From: Garry Spear	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3220	From: Chris Smith	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3221	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3222	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3223	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3224	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3225	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3226	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3227	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3228	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3229	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3230	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3231	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3232	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3233	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3234	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3235	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3236	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3237	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3238	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3239	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3240	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3241	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3242	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3243	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3244	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3245	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3246	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3247	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3248	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: I need 1 set of steps and handrail Lisdsay Brass SW7 (I think)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3249	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3250	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: I need 1 set of steps and handrail Lisdsay Brass SW7 (I think)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3251	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3252	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3253	From: Garry Spear	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3254	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Lindsey switcher steps
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3255	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3256	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: More on Lindsay's other stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3257	From: erieberk	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3258	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3259	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3260	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3261	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3262	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3263	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3264	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3265	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3266	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3267	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3268	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3269	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3270	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3271	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3272	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3273	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3274	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3275	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3276	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Globe Drive unit Photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3277	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Globe Drive unit Photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3278	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3279	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3280	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3281	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: FW: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3282	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: FW: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3283	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: FW: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3284	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3285	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3286	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3287	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3288	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3289	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3290	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3291	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3292	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Unidentified photos up in album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3293	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: Unidentified photos up in album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3294	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: Unidentified photos up in album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3295	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3296	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3297	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/3/2007
Subject: Another identifier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3298	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/3/2007
Subject: Re: Another identifier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3299	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/3/2007
Subject: Re: Another identifier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3300	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another identifier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3301	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Finally shipped off the rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3302	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Mantua freight car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3303	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua freight car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3304	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua freight car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3305	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3306	From: cgls@btinternet.com	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3307	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3308	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3309	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3310	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua freight car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3311	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3312	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3313	From: cnj999	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3314	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3315	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3316	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3317	From: erieberk	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3318	From: erieberk	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3319	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3320	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3321	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3322	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3323	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Reading Crusader on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3324	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3325	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3326	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3327	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3328	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3329	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3330	From: erieberk	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3331	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3332	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3333	From: Jack Priller	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3334	From: erieberk	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3335	From: erieberk	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3336	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3337	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3338	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3339	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3340	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3341	From: erieberk	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3342	From: erieberk	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3343	From: erieberk	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3344	From: erieberk	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3345	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3346	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3347	From: erieberk	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3348	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3349	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3350	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3351	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: What I've been up to.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3352	From: erieberk	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3353	From: erieberk	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3354	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3355	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3356	From: coronetbb	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Nice Train meet in Allentown pa this weekend
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3357	From: Scott	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: NE PA Model Railroad Club
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3358	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Vertical brake staffs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3359	From: erieberk	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3360	From: erieberk	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been up to.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3361	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3362	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3363	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been up to.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3364	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3365	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Pennsy P-70
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3366	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3367	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3368	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3369	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3370	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3371	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3372	From: Larry	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3373	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: ITEMS FORSALE: See the list in the File Secition...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3374	From: erieberk	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Pennsy P-70
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3375	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3376	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Pennsy P-70
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3377	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3378	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3379	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3380	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3381	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3382	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3383	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/16/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3384	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: The following parts are needed and INFO...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3385	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Varney stamped metal twin hopper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3386	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3387	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3388	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3389	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 4/18/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3390	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/18/2007
Subject: I gotta tell ya........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3391	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Bachmann Traction Rings/Tires Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3392	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3393	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3394	From: donvdh	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Bachmann Traction Rings/Tires Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3395	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3396	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Bachmann Traction Rings/Tires Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3397	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3398	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3399	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3400	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3401	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3402	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded & Locomotive INFO Update
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3403	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3404	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3405	From: donvdh	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3406	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3407	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3408	From: donvdh	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3409	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded & Locomotive INFO Update
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3410	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3411	From: rcjge	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3412	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3413	From: donvdh	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3414	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3415	From: donvdh	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Lionel\ Hi-fi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3416	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3417	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3418	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3419	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3420	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3421	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3422	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3423	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3424	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3425	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3426	From: donvdh	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3427	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: I Have The Following Parts Forsale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3428	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3429	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3430	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3431	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3432	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3433	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3434	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3435	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3436	From: Larry	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3437	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee cou
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3438	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3439	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3440	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3441	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3442	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3443	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3444	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3445	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3446	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3447	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3448	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: LACONIA FLAT
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3449	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Re: LACONIA FLAT
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3450	From: donvdh	Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Hi-Fi drive front shaft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3451	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3452	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3453	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3454	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3455	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3456	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3457	From: donvdh	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Lionel Texas Special Passenger set Plus Extra Equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3458	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3459	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3460	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3461	From: erieberk	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3462	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3463	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3464	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3465	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee cou
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3466	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Lindberg SW-1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3467	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Lindberg SW-1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3468	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Lindberg SW-1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3469	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3470	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3471	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3472	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3473	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3474	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/26/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3475	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/26/2007
Subject: Re: Lindberg SW-1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3476	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 4/27/2007
Subject: trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3477	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3478	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3479	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3480	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3481	From: donvdh	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3482	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3483	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3484	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3485	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3486	From: Larry	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Just thought Someone maybe interested
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3487	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3488	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3489	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3490	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/30/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3491	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3492	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3493	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3494	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3495	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3496	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3497	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3498	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3499	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3500	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: mogul taxonomy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3501	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: mogul taxonomy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3502	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3503	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3504	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3505	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3506	From: Bill Daley	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3507	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3508	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3509	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Test
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3510	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3511	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: mogul taxonomy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3512	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3513	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3514	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3515	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3516	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3517	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3518	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3519	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3520	From: Larry	Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3521	From: Larry	Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3522	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3523	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3524	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3525	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3526	From: donvdh	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3527	From: donvdh	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3528	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3529	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3530	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3531	From: Larry	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3532	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3533	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3534	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3535	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3536	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3537	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3538	From: donvdh	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3539	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3540	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3541	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3542	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3543	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's ( In Context )
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3544	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3545	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3546	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3547	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3548	From: cnj999	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3549	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3550	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3551	From: donvdh	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3552	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3553	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3554	From: donvdh	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3555	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3556	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 5/8/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3557	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3558	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 5/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3559	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3560	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/13/2007
Subject: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3561	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/13/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3562	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/13/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3563	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3564	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3565	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Isolating Varney V2 motor brushes. Was: Varney V2 motor and DC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3566	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3567	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3568	From: erieberk	Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Early Super Mikado Boiler -- Was: Isolating Varney V2 motor bru
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3569	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3570	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/16/2007
Subject: Re: Early Super Mikado Boiler -- Was: Isolating Varney V2 motor brus
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3571	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: Varney cereal car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3572	From: rcjge	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3573	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3574	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3575	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3576	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3577	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3578	From: herb1013	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3579	From: rcjge	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3580	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3581	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3582	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3583	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3584	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3585	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3586	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3587	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3588	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Varney cereal car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3589	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Latest adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3590	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3591	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3592	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3593	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3594	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3595	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3596	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3597	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3598	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3599	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3600	From: Garry Spear	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Model Railroader Magazines - Free!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3601	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3602	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3603	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3604	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3605	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3606	From: Larry	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3607	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Varney history. Was: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3608	From: donvdh	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: wrong scale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3609	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: wrong scale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3610	From: donvdh	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Wrong Scale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3611	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3612	From: donvdh	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Wrong Scale Helicopter
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3613	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3614	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3615	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3616	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3617	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3618	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3619	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3620	From: Robert K Nielsen	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3621	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3622	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3623	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3624	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Suydam reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3625	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3626	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3627	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3628	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3629	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/22/2007
Subject: Suydam reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3630	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/22/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3631	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/22/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3632	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3633	From: Scott	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3634	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3635	From: Scott	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3636	From: donvdh	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3637	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3638	From: donvdh	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3639	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3640	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3641	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3642	From: donvdh	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Hallmark Lionel Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3643	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark Lionel Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3644	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3645	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3646	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3647	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3648	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark Lionel Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3649	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark Lionel Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3650	From: donvdh	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3651	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3652	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3653	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3654	From: donvdh	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3655	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3656	From: donvdh	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Lionel Helic Drive Springs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3657	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3658	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3659	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3660	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3661	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3662	From: donvdh	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3663	From: donvdh	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Thank you all
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3664	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3665	From: donvdh	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3666	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3667	From: Graeme	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3668	From: donvdh	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3669	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Interesting restoration
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3670	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3671	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3672	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3673	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3674	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting restoration
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3675	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting restoration
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3676	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3677	From: donvdh	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Hallmark\Lionel N&W J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3678	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3679	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3680	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3681	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3682	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3683	From: donvdh	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Hallmark Cattle Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3684	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting restoration
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3685	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3686	From: donvdh	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: conversion feet to 1\87th
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3687	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: conversion feet to 1\87th
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3688	From: donvdh	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Once again, Hallmark Lionel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3689	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3690	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: conversion feet to 1\87th
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3691	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3692	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3693	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3694	From: Jack Priller	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3695	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3696	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3697	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3698	From: Jack Priller	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3699	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3700	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3701	From: Frank Nagy	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: handrails
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3702	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: handrails
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3703	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: handrails
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3704	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3705	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3706	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3707	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3708	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3709	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3710	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: handrails
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3711	From: greendoddz	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3712	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3713	From: greendoddz	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3714	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3715	From: donvdh	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Yet again, HiFi drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3716	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3717	From: donvdh	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3718	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3719	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3720	From: Jack Priller	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3721	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3722	From: Jack Priller	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3723	From: greendoddz	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3724	From: greendoddz	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3725	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3726	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3727	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3728	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: handrails
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3729	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3730	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: handrails
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3731	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3732	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3733	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3734	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3735	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3736	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3737	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3738	From: Larry	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3739	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3740	From: donvdh	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3741	From: greendoddz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3742	From: jay matz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3743	From: greendoddz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3744	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3745	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO - tyco oddities
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3746	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3747	From: greendoddz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3748	From: greendoddz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO - tyco oddities
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3749	From: jay matz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3750	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3751	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3752	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3753	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3754	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see the
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3755	From: cnj999	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3756	From: Riverboy	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3757	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3758	From: cnj999	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3759	From: Riverboy	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3760	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3761	From: John Hagen	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3762	From: epoxy_tech	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Crown HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3763	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3764	From: Garry Spear	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3765	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3766	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Crown HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3767	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3768	From: Richard Moessner	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3769	From: David Young	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: brass models by International - V&T?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3770	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3771	From: Don RIley	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Virginian Rectifyer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3772	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3773	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3774	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3775	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3776	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3777	From: cnj999	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3778	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3779	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3780	From: cnj999	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3781	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3782	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3783	From: cnj999	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3784	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3785	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: New car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3786	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3787	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Mantua Berk
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3788	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3789	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Berk
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3790	From: Scott	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3791	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3792	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3793	From: cnj999	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3794	From: donvdh	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Cast American Flyer - Vintage?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3795	From: Scott	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3796	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: historicrail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3797	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Unusual Lionel Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3798	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3799	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3800	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Crown HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3801	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: historicrail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3802	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3803	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3804	From: donvdh	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3805	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: historicrail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3806	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3807	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3808	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3809	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3810	From: cnj999	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer - Vintage?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3811	From: donvdh	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Update on rarest Lionel switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3812	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: The annual "do" is over
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3813	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3814	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: One and a half "nuggets" from the bash.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3815	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer - Vintage?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3816	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3817	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3818	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3819	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3820	From: John Hagen	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3821	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3822	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3823	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3824	From: erieberk	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3825	From: Garry Spear	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3826	From: donvdh	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Rarest Lionel Switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3827	From: donvdh	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Cast American Flyer Tank car parts, cast unk maker hopper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3828	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer Tank car parts, cast unk maker hopper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3829	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer Tank car parts, cast unk maker hopper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3830	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Virginian Rectifyer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3831	From: erieberk	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3832	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Virginian Rectifyer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3833	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3834	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3835	From: Al Wallace	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3836	From: Garry Spear	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3837	From: erieberk	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3838	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3839	From: cnj999	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3840	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3841	From: Dale Smith	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3842	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3843	From: Wobbly913	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3844	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3845	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3846	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3847	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3848	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3849	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Virginian Rectifyer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3850	From: donvdh	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3851	From: erieberk	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3852	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3853	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3854	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3855	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3856	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3857	From: rob wiggins	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3858	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3859	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3860	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3861	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3862	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3863	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3864	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3865	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3866	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3867	From: Tom	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3868	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Pictures added, Varney Penn Line Life Like
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3869	From: donvdh	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Hallmark\Lionel N&W 4-8-4
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3870	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Pictures added, Varney Penn Line Life Like
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3871	From: dasha469	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark\Lionel N&W 4-8-4
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3872	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Re: Pictures added, Varney Penn Line Life Like
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3873	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Walthers experts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3874	From: donvdh	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3875	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers experts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3876	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: eBAY Madness???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3877	From: donvdh	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: World's most expensive Lionel switcher, I think.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3878	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: World's most expensive Lionel switcher, I think.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3879	From: John Plott	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3880	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3881	From: donvdh	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3882	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3883	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Frame photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3884	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3885	From: Mike Christian	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: CN_HO_Collectors Group
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3886	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3887	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3888	From: donvdh	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Lost e-mail address for picture problem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3889	From: John Plott	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3890	From: donvdh	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: 1980 NMRA Special Edition Train Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3891	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3892	From: donvdh	Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3893	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3894	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3895	From: donvdh	Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3896	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3897	From: donvdh	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3898	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3899	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3900	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3901	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3902	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3903	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3904	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3905	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3906	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3907	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3908	From: rob wiggins	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3909	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3910	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3911	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3912	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3913	From: donvdh	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3914	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3915	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3916	From: tubamarx	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: AF Pikemaster Drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3917	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3918	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3919	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Con-Cor PA
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3920	From: donvdh	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: NMRA Headquarters Express Train \ 1985 NMRA 50th Anniversary Commme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3921	From: bitlerisvj	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3922	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3923	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3924	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3925	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3926	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3927	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3928	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3929	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Sniping
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3930	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3931	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3932	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3933	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Sniping
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3934	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3935	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3936	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3937	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3938	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3939	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3940	From: donvdh	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, again
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3941	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3942	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3943	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3944	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3945	From: donvdh	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, again
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3946	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3947	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3948	From: donvdh	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Grateful appreciation.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3949	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3950	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3951	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3952	From: Scott	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3953	From: Scott	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3954	From: Scott	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3955	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3956	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3957	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3958	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3959	From: Scott	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3960	From: donvdh	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3961	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3962	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3963	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3964	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment HAS BEEN DECLARED OFF-TOPIC!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3965	From: Scott	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment HAS BEEN DECLARED OFF-TOPIC!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3966	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Totally absurd...BUT THIS HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED OFF-TOPIC!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3967	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3968	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3969	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Is Mom's battery OK ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3970	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Is Mom's battery OK ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3971	From: dadof4children2007	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3972	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3973	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3974	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3975	From: dadof4children2007	Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3976	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3977	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3978	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3979	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3980	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds - F3s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3981	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds - F3s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3982	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds - F3s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3983	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3984	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3985	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3986	From: James E Crowell, BSc, MEd	Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3987	From: rob wiggins	Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3988	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3989	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3990	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3991	From: James E Crowell, BSc, MEd	Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Globe gold locos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3992	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Varney Ostuco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3993	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney Ostuco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3994	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney Ostuco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3995	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney Ostuco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3996	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Fwd: : Stroke
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3997	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: : Stroke
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3998	From: donvdh	Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 3999	From: rob wiggins	Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4000	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4001	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4002	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4003	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4004	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4005	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4006	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4007	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4008	From: Wobbly913	Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4009	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4010	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4011	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4012	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4013	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4014	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4015	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4016	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4017	From: herb1013	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Fw: GE Loco & Test Car Set - Only 35 Produced - Pre Order Now
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4018	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4019	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4020	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4021	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4022	From: donvdh	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Bowser Challenger parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4023	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Challenger parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4024	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4025	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4026	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac - Hertz's comments
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4027	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac - Hertz's comments
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4028	From: erieberk	Date: 6/25/2007
Subject: Re: Thomas Tank Cars: Was -- HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4029	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 6/26/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4030	From: Garry Spear	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Old PFM Cataloges for sale + one Gem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4031	From: Garry Spear	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4032	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4033	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Fwd: Some photos for you!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4034	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4035	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4036	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4037	From: donvdh	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Zamac question, again. Sorry
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4038	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4039	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac question, again. Sorry
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4040	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4041	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4042	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4043	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4044	From: donvdh	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Photo attachments
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4045	From: donvdh	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: 1980 NMRA Headquarters Express Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4046	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4047	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4048	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4049	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Posting Images(was:Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4050	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4051	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4052	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4053	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4054	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4055	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4056	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Surplus tem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4057	From: tubamarx	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: International Model products catalog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4058	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: International Model products catalog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4059	From: trainliker	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: International Model products catalog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4060	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: International Model products catalog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4061	From: tubamarx	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4062	From: curmudgeon	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4063	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4064	From: curmudgeon	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4065	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4066	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4067	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: needs-wants
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4068	From: Scott	Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Hoboken/Weehawken Waterfront
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4069	From: donvdh	Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Newark, Port Newark, Hoboken, Jersey City, Staten Island waterfront
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4070	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Fwd: International Model Products
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4071	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Re: IMP 4-4-0 question response
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4072	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Hoboken/Weehawken Waterfront
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4073	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: International Model Products
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4074	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: International Model Products
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4075	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4076	From: John Barlow	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4077	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4078	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4079	From: John Barlow	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4080	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4081	From: Mike Christian	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard Co.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4082	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4083	From: tubamarx	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard Info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4084	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4085	From: Imp Ster	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: IMP 4-4-0 ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4086	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4087	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4088	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4089	From: artrich999@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4090	From: curmudgeon	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4091	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4092	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4093	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4094	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4095	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: An Interview with Nat Polk
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4096	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: An Interview with Nat Polk
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4097	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4098	From: rob wiggins	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4099	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4100	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4101	From: erieberk	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4102	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: New motive power
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4103	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] New motive power
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4104	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Micro Motive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4105	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4106	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4107	From: curmudgeon	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Micro Motive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4108	From: erieberk	Date: 7/10/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4109	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4110	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4111	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Thomas the Tank Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4112	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Ancient Varney Cars. Was: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4113	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4114	From: Askerberg	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: English coach and combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4115	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4116	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: Ancient Varney Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4117	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/12/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4118	From: robwiggins2004	Date: 7/12/2007
Subject: for sale or trade list one of 5
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4119	From: Askerberg	Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4120	From: Askerberg	Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4121	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4122	From: robwiggins2004	Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: FOR SALE OR TRADE 2 OF 5
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4123	From: robwiggins2004	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: FOR SALE LIST 3 OF 5
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4124	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4125	From: rob wiggins	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4126	From: Robert K Nielsen	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4127	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4128	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4129	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4130	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4131	From: robwiggins2004	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4132	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4133	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4134	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4135	From: rob wiggins	Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4136	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 7/19/2007
Subject: ? Megow?: G.A.R.X. 48979 MKT wood reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4137	From: erieberk	Date: 7/19/2007
Subject: Re: ? Megow?: G.A.R.X. 48979 MKT wood reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4138	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/21/2007
Subject: Re: ? Megow?: G.A.R.X. 48979 MKT wood reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4139	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Conventions and cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4140	From: Don Van Der Horn	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Spare convention cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4141	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Re: Conventions and cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4142	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Re: [PCR-nmra] Conventions and cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4143	From: Don Van Der Horn	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: NMRA Commeorative Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4144	From: Don Van Der Horn	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: 1066 vs 1966 conventions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4145	From: lesbrody923	Date: 8/2/2007
Subject: Thanks sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4146	From: sean naylor	Date: 8/2/2007
Subject: Re: Thanks sean
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4147	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/5/2007
Subject: Kemtron to Precision Number Conversion
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4148	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/10/2007
Subject: A couple adds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4149	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/12/2007
Subject: Thanks to the Group -- International Models 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4150	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/14/2007
Subject: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4151	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/14/2007
Subject: tubamarx, please contact me off line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4152	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/14/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4153	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4154	From: Wobbly913	Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4155	From: James Sabo	Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4156	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4157	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Walthers "BJ" Reefer kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4158	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4159	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4160	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4161	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4162	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/17/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4163	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/18/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4164	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/18/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4165	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4166	From: jay matz	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4167	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4168	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4169	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4170	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4171	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4172	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4173	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4174	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4175	From: curmudgeon	Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4176	From: Dale Smith	Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4177	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout- It RUNS!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4178	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/25/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4179	From: Nick	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4180	From: Charles Kinzer	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4181	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4182	From: Nick	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4183	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4184	From: jerrygart5	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4185	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4186	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4187	From: sean naylor	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4188	From: Nick	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4189	From: Nick	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4190	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4191	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4192	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4193	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4194	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4195	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4196	From: cnj999	Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4197	From: Nick	Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4198	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4199	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4200	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4201	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4202	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4203	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4204	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4205	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 9/1/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4206	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4207	From: Garry Spear	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Mantua & Tyco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4208	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4209	From: Larry	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4210	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4211	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4212	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4213	From: Glenn476	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4214	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4215	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4216	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4217	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4218	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Soldering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4219	From: John bell	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Soldering...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4220	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Soldering...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4221	From: Glenn476	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4222	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4223	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4224	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4225	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4226	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4227	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Soldering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4228	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4229	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Soldering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4230	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4231	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4232	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4233	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4234	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4235	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4236	From: John Barlow	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4237	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4238	From: Mary Long	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4239	From: Mary Long	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4240	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4241	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4242	From: Mary Long	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4243	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4244	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4245	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4246	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/10/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4247	From: lvtrainmeet	Date: 9/10/2007
Subject: Nice train meet this weekend
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4248	From: Nick	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Nice train meet this weekend
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4249	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4250	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4251	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Stroke
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4252	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4253	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4254	From: curmudgeon	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4255	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4256	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4257	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4258	From: Charles Kinzer	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4259	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4260	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4261	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4262	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4263	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4264	From: curmudgeon	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4265	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4266	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4267	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4268	From: Gerry D	Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4269	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4270	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4271	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4272	From: jay matz	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4273	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4274	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4275	From: hmbb56	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4276	From: Jerry Prather	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4277	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4278	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4279	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4280	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4281	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4282	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4283	From: sswcharlie	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Vintage Model of GMDH-1 Demo Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4284	From: erieberk	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4285	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4286	From: Maynard Keith Franklin	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4287	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4288	From: Jack Priller	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Dates?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4289	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dates?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4290	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4291	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dates?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4292	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dates?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4293	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4294	From: Jay Matz	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Athearn Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4295	From: Wobbly913	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4296	From: David Keim	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4297	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4298	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4299	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4300	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4301	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4302	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Tru-Scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4303	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4304	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Tru-Scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4305	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: MY TRAINS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4306	From: John Bell	Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: MY TRAINS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4307	From: lesbrody923	Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4308	From: John Barlow	Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4309	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4310	From: jay matz	Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4311	From: lesbrody923	Date: 9/21/2007
Subject: the box says winged snowplow and one has a small piece of in
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4312	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/23/2007
Subject: Re: the box says winged snowplow and one has a small piece of in
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4313	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: TrainFest In Milwaukee, WI- November
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4314	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: Re: TrainFest In Milwaukee, WI- November
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4315	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 9/29/2007
Subject: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4316	From: Mary Long	Date: 9/29/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4317	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4318	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4319	From: curmudgeon	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4320	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4321	From: Mary Long	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4322	From: donvdh	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4323	From: curmudgeon	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4324	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4325	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4326	From: donvdh	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Thomas Ind. Tank Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4327	From: jay matz	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4328	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4329	From: Mary Long	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4330	From: jay matz	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4331	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4332	From: sean naylor	Date: 10/3/2007
Subject: Ping to Hank!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4333	From: donvdh	Date: 10/3/2007
Subject: Re: Ping to Hank!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4334	From: Mary Long	Date: 10/3/2007
Subject: Re: Ping to Hank!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4335	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4336	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4337	From: cnj999	Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4338	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4339	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: mystery passenger cars - was: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4340	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4341	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] mystery passenger cars - was: Aristo Craft HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4342	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4343	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4344	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4345	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] mystery passenger cars - was: Aristo Craft HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4346	From: tcol@toast.net	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4347	From: jay matz	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4348	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4349	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4350	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4351	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4352	From: cnj999	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4353	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Strombecker RI Rocket
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4354	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4355	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4356	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4357	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4358	From: cnj999	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Smart Brass Locos - was: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4359	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1040
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4360	From: cnj999	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4361	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4362	From: herb1013	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Keystone HO Exclusive Train Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4363	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Keystone HO Exclusive Train Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4364	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4365	From: herb1013	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Keystone HO Exclusive Train Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4366	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4367	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/12/2007
Subject: search
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4368	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Latest roster adds.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4369	From: curmudgeon	Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Re: Latest roster adds.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4370	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Re: Latest roster adds.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4371	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Greenburg Varney book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4372	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book(Aux info)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4373	From: sean naylor	Date: 10/15/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4374	From: Garry	Date: 10/15/2007
Subject: For Sale PRR Passenger Cars: Assembled Older Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4375	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 10/15/2007
Subject: Re: For Sale PRR Passenger Cars: Assembled Older Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4376	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4377	From: Mike Christian	Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Dave Spanagel's email
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4378	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4379	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dave Spanagel's email
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4380	From: Earl Ray Saathoff	Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Latest roster adds.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4381	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 10/17/2007
Subject: Need to ID attacment nut...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4382	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 10/17/2007
Subject: Re: Need to ID attacment nut...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4383	From: rayzef	Date: 10/18/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4384	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4385	From: erieberk	Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4386	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4387	From: takefive247	Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4388	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Greenburg Varney Book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4389	From: erieberk	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4390	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney Book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4391	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4392	From: erieberk	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4393	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4394	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4395	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4396	From: erieberk	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4397	From: erieberk	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4398	From: erieberk	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4399	From: erieberk	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4400	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4401	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4402	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4403	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4404	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4405	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4406	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4407	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4408	From: donvdh	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Zamac components - acronym
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4409	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4410	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4411	From: donvdh	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4412	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4413	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4414	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4415	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4416	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4417	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4418	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4419	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4420	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4421	From: nycrrmitch	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4422	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4423	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - Blackener
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4424	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4425	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendiu
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4426	From: donvdh	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: anodizing azamac
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4427	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4428	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4429	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4430	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4431	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4432	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Screens on the farm house
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4433	From: erieberk	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4434	From: erieberk	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4435	From: erieberk	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4436	From: erieberk	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium -
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4437	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4438	From: erieberk	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4439	From: Eric	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Vintage HO Motors
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4440	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4441	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Co
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4442	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4443	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4444	From: Mike Christian	Date: 10/25/2007
Subject: Old MR, RMC & NMRA Bulletin mags with binders for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4445	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/25/2007
Subject: Athearn RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4446	From: curmudgeon	Date: 10/25/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4447	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4448	From: curmudgeon	Date: 10/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4449	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/27/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4450	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/28/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC - NMRP REP???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4451	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/28/2007
Subject: Roundhouse switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4452	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: Jerry White passes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4453	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: Re: Jerry White passes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4454	From: Tom	Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: New here; old geezer; into modeling transition era in New England
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4455	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: E&B Valley observation instruction sheet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4456	From: Mary Long	Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: Re: E&B Valley observation instruction sheet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4457	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Jerry White passes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4458	From: Tom	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4459	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4460	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: E&B Valley observation instruction sheet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4461	From: Tom	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4462	From: drpshops	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4463	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4464	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4465	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4466	From: curmudgeon	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4467	From: Bill C.	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4468	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Jerry White passes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4469	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4470	From: curmudgeon	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4471	From: keith gutshall	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4472	From: Jerry Prather	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4473	From: jay matz	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4474	From: Mary Long	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4475	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4476	From: Loopy	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4477	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4478	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4479	From: sean naylor	Date: 11/1/2007
Subject: Re: New here; old geezer; into modeling transition era in New Englan
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4480	From: Tom	Date: 11/1/2007
Subject: Re: New here; old geezer; into modeling transition era in New Englan
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4481	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 11/1/2007
Subject: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4482	From: bitlerisvj	Date: 11/4/2007
Subject: Ambroid No 10. Speedy Poultry and Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4483	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/4/2007
Subject: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4484	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/4/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4485	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4486	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4487	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4488	From: Wobbly913	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4489	From: keith gutshall	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4490	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4491	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4492	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4493	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4494	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4495	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4496	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4497	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4498	From: Wobbly913	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4499	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4500	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4501	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4502	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Details West
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4503	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4504	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4505	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4506	From: Don Grant	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4507	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4508	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4509	From: erieberk	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4510	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4511	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4512	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4513	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4514	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4515	From: keith gutshall	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4516	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4517	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4518	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4519	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 11/8/2007
Subject: Athearn metal RDCs/
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4520	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/8/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn metal RDCs/
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4521	From: Lee	Date: 11/9/2007
Subject: Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4522	From: herb1013	Date: 11/9/2007
Subject: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4523	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4524	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4525	From: sean naylor	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4526	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1 - access forbidden??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4527	From: herb1013	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4528	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4529	From: Lennard Stewart	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4530	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4531	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4532	From: Jim A. Howell	Date: 11/11/2007
Subject: Brass Model Cleaning Suggestions & Tips Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4533	From: rayzef	Date: 11/11/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4534	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4535	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4536	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Brass Model Cleaning Suggestions & Tips Neede
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4537	From: Maynard Keith Franklin	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Ressurecting Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4538	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: Ressurecting Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4539	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4540	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4541	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 11/13/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4542	From: rayzef	Date: 11/13/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4543	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/13/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4544	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 11/14/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4545	From: rayzef	Date: 11/14/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4546	From: Lennard Stewart	Date: 11/14/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4547	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/15/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4548	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/15/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4549	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 11/15/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4550	From: Larry	Date: 11/18/2007
Subject: Literature Page @ HOseeker.net
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4551	From: Jack Priller	Date: 11/18/2007
Subject: Available: one old kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4552	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/18/2007
Subject: International 2-bay hopper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4553	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 11/22/2007
Subject: nome
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4554	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 11/22/2007
Subject: Re: nome
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4555	From: Ted Walton	Date: 11/25/2007
Subject: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4556	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/25/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4557	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/25/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4558	From: Larry	Date: 11/26/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4559	From: Ted Walton	Date: 11/26/2007
Subject: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4560	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/26/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4561	From: Ted Walton	Date: 11/27/2007
Subject: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4562	From: tnc200394	Date: 11/27/2007
Subject: Tru scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4563	From: Frank Weed	Date: 11/27/2007
Subject: Re: Tru scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4564	From: Maynard Keith Franklin	Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4565	From: jay matz	Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4566	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4567	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4568	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4569	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4570	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4571	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4572	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4573	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4574	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4575	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4576	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/3/2007
Subject: What I've been doing lately.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4577	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 12/3/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4578	From: Walter J. Bayer II	Date: 12/3/2007
Subject: Walthers NYC 20th Century Ltd. heavyweight passenger cars-8 kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4579	From: Walter J. Bayer II	Date: 12/4/2007
Subject: Blue Line PRR kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4580	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: New Photo Album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4581	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: Re: New Photo Album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4582	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: Another 'Whodunit' Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4583	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: Re: Another 'Whodunit' Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4584	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 12/6/2007
Subject: Re: Another 'Whodunit' Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4585	From: tnc200394	Date: 12/7/2007
Subject: Hobbytown of Boston powered chassis's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4586	From: Garry Spear	Date: 12/7/2007
Subject: 50s and early 60s HO for Sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4587	From: Don Van Der Horn	Date: 12/7/2007
Subject: Re: 50s and early 60s HO for Sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4588	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: What I did this week
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4589	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4590	From: boomer44	Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Vintage cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4591	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4592	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4593	From: Jim Snyder	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Every once in a while...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4594	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Every once in a while...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4595	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4596	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4597	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4598	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4599	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 12/10/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4600	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 12/11/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4601	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/11/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4602	From: sswcharlie	Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4603	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4604	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4605	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4606	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4607	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4608	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4609	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4610	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4611	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4612	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4613	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 12/14/2007
Subject: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4614	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/14/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4615	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4616	From: cnj999	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4617	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4618	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4619	From: cnj999	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4620	From: Rick Jones	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4621	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4622	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4623	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4624	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: none
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4625	From: rayzef	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Red Ball Acid Tank Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4626	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4627	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Re: The Rarest of Plastic Trolleys...Maybe (was: Suydam - Alpine)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4628	From: texpearson@AOL.com	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Looking for Mantua Stock Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4629	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4630	From: Paul Kayne	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: How about this for overhead!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4631	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 12/17/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4632	From: Jack Priller	Date: 12/17/2007
Subject: Re: Available: one old kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4633	From: Jay Matz	Date: 12/17/2007
Subject: Red Ball Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4634	From: cnj999	Date: 12/18/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4635	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 12/18/2007
Subject: New Yahoo group
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4636	From: Jack Priller	Date: 12/18/2007
Subject: Re: Available: one old kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4637	From: cnj999	Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Nitric Acid Car Kit Wrapper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4638	From: jay matz	Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Nitric Acid Car Kit Wrapper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4639	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Nitric Acid Car Kit Wrapper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4640	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: What I've been doing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4641	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been doing
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4642	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: switches.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4643	From: curmudgeon	Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4644	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4645	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4646	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4647	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4648	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4649	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Christmas wishes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4650	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas wishes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4651	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Christmas Invitation - God bless you all
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4652	From: Jay Matz	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4653	From: John Hagen	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Holidays
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4654	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Thanks Fred !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4655	From: Mary Long	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4656	From: oahurailway	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: MELE KALIKIMAKA!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4657	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: MELE KALIKIMAKA!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4658	From: Rick Jones	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas wishes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4659	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Christmas Invitation - God bless you all
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4660	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas wishes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4661	From: louiskgreiff	Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4662	From: Walter J. Bayer II	Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4663	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Re: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4664	From: louiskgreiff	Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4665	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Re: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4666	From: Mike Christian	Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4667	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4668	From: cnj999	Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4669	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4670	From: Larry	Date: 12/27/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4671	From: Garry Spear	Date: 12/27/2007
Subject: FS: Old Passenger Trucks - Varney & Walthers - Cevtral Valley
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4672	From: cnj999	Date: 12/27/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4673	From: takefive247	Date: 12/28/2007
Subject: Help Identify & parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4674	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/28/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identify & parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4675	From: Jack Priller	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4676	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4677	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4678	From: Jack Priller	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4679	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4680	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4681	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4682	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4683	From: takefive247	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identify & parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4684	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4685	From: holat88	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4686	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4687	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4688	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4689	From: Jim Snyder	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: My Christmas Present...to myself
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4690	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4691	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4692	From: holat88	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4693	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4694	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Christmas Present...to myself
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4695	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4696	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: I need help identifying a Japan import Lil Joe 0-4-0 with an (F) bui
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4697	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: I need help identifying a Japan import Lil Joe 0-4-0 with an ...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4698	From: Garry Spear	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Christmas Present...to myself
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4699	From: Larry	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: I need help identifying a Japan import Lil Joe 0-4-0 with an ...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4700	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4701	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4702	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4703	From: curmudgeon	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4704	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4705	From: holat88	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 4706	From: curmudgeon	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards

---

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1905	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar

Glenn wrote: > I'll bet the instrux call for "4-10-M'" paint. > > If anyone comes up with a match mix or the 4-10-M paints, as well as the > MDC paints--it sould be a service to the hobby (at least this part of > it) to record the mix. The tinplate collectors have lines of paint to > match the old Lionel and Ives colors--but I think thier market is bigger > than ours. I have used the equivalent Floquil colors as a substitute for the paints called out for old Central Valley, Silver Streak and Ulrich kits with satisfactory results. The color matches on things such as boxcar red or reefer yellow appeared to be close enough. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1906	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"

Thanks!   Andy Emmerson.   ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles E. Kinzer To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train" You might contact Kalmbach who now owns Greenberg Publishing (who published the book - I have one).   By the way, I got a Varney item off ebay long ago that might amuse both that author and this group.  It is the "Li'L Raskal Wreck Proof Train".  It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the book and you might mention that to the author is you reach him.   I bought one that had pretty good contents in a pretty bad box.  Later, another ebayer got a pretty good box with some missing contents.  I thought the world would be better with at least one nice sample and sold mine to the guy to put together one fairly good set.  And it  definitely seems pretty "wreck proof".   I have attached photos of the thing.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:35 AM Subject: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel? I would like to get in touch with John Spanagel about his Varney book and just wondered if he is a member of this forum. His snail mail address is on the NMRA website but an e-mail would be simpler and faster. Any help most welcome! Thanks, Andrew Emmerson (in England)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1907	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"

David's (J.David Spanagel) ebay ID is " 2ndchance$ " if you want to get to him that way.  He'll be happy to reply back off line.     Dan Bush   ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 3:02 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train" Thanks!   Andy Emmerson.   ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles E. Kinzer To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train" You might contact Kalmbach who now owns Greenberg Publishing (who published the book - I have one).   By the way, I got a Varney item off ebay long ago that might amuse both that author and this group.  It is the "Li'L Raskal Wreck Proof Train".  It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the book and you might mention that to the author is you reach him.   I bought one that had pretty good contents in a pretty bad box.  Later, another ebayer got a pretty good box with some missing contents.  I thought the world would be better with at least one nice sample and sold mine to the guy to put together one fairly good set.  And it  definitely seems pretty "wreck proof".   I have attached photos of the thing.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:35 AM Subject: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel? I would like to get in touch with John Spanagel about his Varney book and just wondered if he is a member of this forum. His snail mail address is on the NMRA website but an e-mail would be simpler and faster. Any help most welcome! Thanks, Andrew Emmerson (in England)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1908	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: What I did today.

Attachments : Well, at the risk of offending the purists, I did it (Roger said I could!) Still needs the handrails painted and decals, but the HObbyline H-10-44 is in "Milwaukee Northern" paint. (Also did some cleaning and tune-up on the Varney NW-2 to the point where she runs well enough to actually do some switching {with the MRC Golden Throttle Pack" set on "pulse}). Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1909	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: What I did today.

Looks good Don, a fitting paint scheme for a Hobbyline. Roger Don Dellmann wrote: > Well, at the risk of offending the purists, I did it (Roger said I could!) > > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1910	From: Glenn	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar

I remember that--then they had their own line--the bottles were strangely like the 4-10-M bottles. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar > Nope, but I do agree that some of the older pre-painted Roundhouse Metal > kits called for 410 M paint. These Ambroid instructions call for simply > "Boxcar Red" and do not identify any paint manufacturer. I think I came > up > with a decent match using Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red in Polyscaled > paints. So far I have tried a 50/50 mix of each, but I will update this > list with my final choice. It may end up being a 66/33 mix of these > colors. > I am hoping to start painting by the end of next week. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar > Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:02:49 -0800 > > I'll bet the instrux call for "4-10-M'" paint. > > If anyone comes up with a match mix or the 4-10-M paints, as well as the > MDC > paints--it sould be a service to the hobby (at least this part of it) to > record the mix. The tinplate collectors have lines of paint to match the > old Lionel and Ives colors--but I think thier market is bigger than ours. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Don Dellmann > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:09 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:17 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar > > > Hi group, > > I just found this group and am hoping for some expert help. I am > > almost finished building the subject ACL Ventilated Boxcar and am a > > little confused. The instructions call for Boxcar Red as the paint > > color, but the Boxcar Red I have in Polyscale is really closer to > > Tuscan or more of a Brownish color. The pre-painted sides are more > > Red than the Polyscale Boxcar Red. Will I need to mix my own colors, > > or does anyone know if there is a Boxcar Red still available that may > > work? I haven't tried a new Floquil Boxcar Red, because I hate the > > NEW Floquil formula paint. It isn't anything close to the old Floquil > > paint that I used to use a long time ago. Anybody have any clues for > > marrying old kits with modern paints? The bad part is I have several > > Ambroid kits with some pre-painted parts. I have several stock car > > kits and the Pickle Car kit. I also have some Silver Streak cars with > > some pre-painted sides. I am wondering if I would be better off > > putting them on eBay, but I love building them. > > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris > > Don't give up, build them! > > It may take some mixing and experimenting to get the color right, but it > will be worth it. > > I would NOT use polyscale on a wood kit (in fact I wouldn't use it on > anything, but that's personal opinion). > > I do still use solvent based Floquil, while it's not as good las it used > to > be, it's still better than most acrylics. Try various mixes of Boxcar > red, > Tuscan and roof brown. The only acrylic I use and love is "Ceramcoat" > (available at any craft store, most Walmarts, and many "big box" home > improvement stores). It is not good for metal, but works well on wood. > Try > their "red iron oxide" and/or "barn red". > > The other one you might try is Scalecoat if you can find it (although I > was > never a big scalecoat fan), if you want acrylics, theirs is/was > "Scalcoat > II". > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > _________________________________________________________________ > Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win? > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1911	From: Glenn	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Number Boards

It would be great if someone would do those in clear plastic, like the ones in the Scalelite lighting kits. The originals were black plastic.  Since the number boards are a "standard item" I'm surprised that someone like Detail Associates hasn't done them.  Particularly since when Athearn "simplified" the F-7 tooling to include them on the body shell they messed up the contours. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: nycrrmitch To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:05 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Number Boards Hi: I have a Varney F3 that is missing Number Boards and would very happy if someone could tell me where to get a pair that I could use for replacement. I think the originals were clear plastic. But, that is only a guess. When I got the engine, it was just the shell. It now has a Hobbytown drive and runs great. Thanks, Joe Mitchell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1912	From: Glenn	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Number Boards

I have two ABBA sets in D&RGW--one black & yellow, the other silver & gold with 4-stripes.  Both sets have Zamak shells for the leading AB, Hobbytown Multi-drives with what we were calling the "Holland" can motors in the B units.  Bugboards were from Details West. Trailing dummy units are plastic later Varney shells. I have a third ABA set with the Varney drives in the lead AB, plastic trailing A. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bitleris To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:25 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Number Boards Mine were black plastic, but I did not realize that until I destroyed them when I removed the paint using lacquer thinner. Currently, I decided to use some Details Associates number boards and filled in the existing holes with styrene. These are OK, but I feel like the originals would be better. If you find a source for these number boards, I would be very interested. I also have mine running with a Hobbytown chassis. I need to get the companion chassis for the B-Unit as well. Then I need to put a healthy decoder in it. This guy shpuld be able to pull a LOT of cars. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "nycrrmitch" <nycrrmitch@earthlin k.net> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [vintageHO] Number Boards Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 02:05:00 -0000 Hi: I have a Varney F3 that is missing Number Boards and would very happy if someone could tell me where to get a pair that I could use for replacement. I think the originals were clear plastic. But, that is only a guess. When I got the engine, it was just the shell. It now has a Hobbytown drive and runs great. Thanks, Joe Mitchell ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ >From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has it all. http://tv.msn. com/tv/globes200 7/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1913	From: Glenn	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar

But--your lacquer primer is sealing the wood. Problem solved. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar > Hi folks, > I dunno what the case is against using Polyscale paints on wood kits is, > but > I have used Polyscale or other acrylic paints on wood kits for quite some > time. I do not ever have any problems with the wood warping or coming > apart. I do admit, I used to worry less when I used solvent type paints, > but over the last few years, I found it is not necessary to use these. I > use Yellow Glue for putting the kits together. While this is not > "waterproof", it is indeed water resistant and seems to work better than > the > White Glue. I have put together about 6 structure kits and at least 3 car > kits together and painted them using Polyscale paints. I brush painted at > least one of the cars, a Quality Craft Pennsy Caboose, with no ill > effects. > I would not "soak" the paint in, but on the other hand, I am not "dry" > brushing either. However, I don't mind saying that when I air brushed the > OSL (Taurus) Stock Car, I was quite liberal with the paint and almost felt > that it was a bit too wet. The car turned out great and suffered no ill > effects at all. I use Windex or some similar Window cleaner for Acrylic > thinner or solvent and cannot complain at all. I am also building some > Ambroid B&M open platform passenger cars and am planning on brushing them > with Badger Model Flex, also an acrylic, because they have the correct > color > for the B&M Maroon cars. One of my practices (but, not always) is to > spray > auto primer, a lacquer, prior to acrylic painting. This allows quite a > bit > of flexibility for weathering, etc. But, is not required to keep the wood > stable. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar > Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:51:27 -0800 > > I would be quite wary of mixing wood kits with anything with water in it. > Bad experience with some LaBelle passenger cars some years ago (Yes--I > went > back and found the warning in the instructions)--in that case the liberal > application of bricks overcame the effects of white glue--but I think a > built-up car could be totalled.Similar problem on a Tomalco reefer when > setting decals--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bitlerisvj > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 7:17 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar > > > Hi group, > I just found this group and am hoping for some expert help. I am > almost finished building the subject ACL Ventilated Boxcar and am a > little confused. The instructions call for Boxcar Red as the paint > color, but the Boxcar Red I have in Polyscale is really closer to > Tuscan or more of a Brownish color. The pre-painted sides are more > Red than the Polyscale Boxcar Red. Will I need to mix my own colors, > or does anyone know if there is a Boxcar Red still available that may > work? I haven't tried a new Floquil Boxcar Red, because I hate the > NEW Floquil formula paint. It isn't anything close to the old Floquil > paint that I used to use a long time ago. Anybody have any clues for > marrying old kits with modern paints? The bad part is I have several > Ambroid kits with some pre-painted parts. I have several stock car > kits and the Pickle Car kit. I also have some Silver Streak cars with > some pre-painted sides. I am wondering if I would be better off > putting them on eBay, but I love building them. > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping > Sales & Deals > http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1914	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.

Maybe it was the white glue I used on the two LaBelle Stockcars which can be viewed at my photo album "1941 Varney 6V Dockside" that warped them so badly?! Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1915	From: kilbeggan68	Date: 1/2/2007
Subject: Has anyone been thru this?

I am trying to rebuild some MU-2 power trucks.I have source for new gears.Tha almighty question is how do I determine what is a lefthand worm from a righthand worm? Do you look at it from output end or the driven end? Any info will be appreciated.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1916	From: jerrygart5	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: Has anyone been thru this?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "kilbeggan68" <wedfrentz@...> wrote: > > I am trying to rebuild some MU-2 power trucks.I have source for new > gears.Tha almighty question is how do I determine what is a lefthand > worm from a righthand worm? Do you look at it from output end or the > driven end? Any info will be appreciated. > The simple answer is: if you look at a worm from the top,follow a thread; right hand thread goes \\\\\. Left hand thread goes /////. Does not matter which way you look at it-from input or output end. Right hand thread is the "standard" for US gears. If you want to really know a lot about gears, go to Northwest Short Line web site (www.nwsl.com), look under "catalog", and then "section 6-2". I do not see where it would make any difference in what you select-but the worm "hand" must match the gear "hand". Another important aspect: be sure the worm pitch matches the gear pitch; any differences-even small- will result in accelerated wear and failure of the drive. That's why it's important to consider replacing both the worm and gear in an assembly using both from the same manufacturer. (By the way, NWSL makes sets for most all locomotives; if you don't see it in their catalog, call and they will work with you to get you what you need. They are great people to deal with.) Hope this helps! JerryG.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1917	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Latest addition

Attachments : Got the last car from the last eBay box running, this is a MARX car. Now to wait for the next batch, last of the Christmas bonus went, waiting on the Erie and about 25 more cars! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1918	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

If anybody wants, I can post this fix (and photos) I generated today for keeping the trucks in the chassis when the "U" clips break. Since these clips are made of un-obtainium, this has gotten one of our old workhorses back in trace. One of the guys on hoseeker forums has hard parts for the other of the A-B set, so we'll be back up and running. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1919	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

I have several of those units.  I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks. Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: If anybody wants, I can post this fix (and photos) I generated today for keeping the trucks in the chassis when the "U" clips break. Since these clips are made of un-obtainium, this has gotten one of our old workhorses back in trace. One of the guys on hoseeker forums has hard parts for the other of the A-B set, so we'll be back up and running. Dave Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1920	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.

You mean you didn't do that on purpose? I've had wooden "0" scale cars bow, but keeping them away from moisture and bracing them inside (hard to do on a stock car) fixed them. On another subject in the same photo montage, I have a Varney Docksider with that early pickup (one wheel) arrangement, and am going to convert it to later dual-wheel pickup so I can run it. But, I've run mine on 12v with the other Varney, and I don't think mine is 6V. Other than that bit on top at the brushes and speed comparisons, any way to tell? Dave > > Maybe it was the white glue I used on the two LaBelle Stockcars which > can be viewed at my photo album "1941 Varney 6V Dockside" that warped > them so badly?! Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1921	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics. > > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks. > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? > Wobbly913 > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1922	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Globe drive parts

Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L     -----Original Message----- From: idioticyahoo@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics. > > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks. > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? > Wobbly913 > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1923	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts

Stephen L.   Thanks for your reply. I do not have a parts list, not sure what you refer to as the dog bone.   For one unit I need the plastic piece that connects the motor to the tower on top of the truck, and the cover or lid of the truck body...the kingpin is broken off leaving the truck floating on the frame. For the other unit I need the worm geared shaft that runs between the axles and connects to the gear on the tower. In general I was looking for a future source of parts for potential failures, I like to run my vintage models.   Wobbly913 MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L     -----Original Message----- From: idioticyahoo@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics. > > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks. > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? > Wobbly913 > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1924	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 11:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix > All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics. > > >> >> I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your > fix in case one of mine ever breaks. >> Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? >> Wobbly913 Do you want to just send them to the group as an email, or acrchive them? If the former, how do you post messages, on the web or with a mail reader program? Using something like outlook express, as long as they're .jpg files (no others are allowed as atachments), just write message, and click on the "attach" icon (in OE it's a little paper clip) which will open a window letting you browse your hard drive to find the file). On the web, there should be a button marked "attach files" when you're done composing your message. Then do the same thing. To archive them, go to the group home page, click on photos, then "create an album" and follow the instructions. If they're anything other than .jpgs, let me know offlist and I'll tell you what to do. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1925	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

May I suggest that on something like this, repair procedures, be archieved? This is something that ol' Melvin Blow (Joe's brother) may look for 6 months down the road and a photo that only be viewed in an email sent to a finite number of people will be quite useless. Your membership is always in flex and current members that do not own and/or do not plan on owning such a piece of equipment now just may end up with some eventually. As stated by Don, it is relatively eassy to post them in a photo album. John Hagen -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > > To archive them, go to the group home page, click on photos, then "create an > album" and follow the instructions. > > If they're anything other than .jpgs, let me know offlist and I'll tell you > what to do. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1926	From: Lance	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Missing instructions

Hello, I'm a newcomer to this group. I like to run old stuff with my new. I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train show. It is in perfect shape, complete and in the box. Looks like it would build into a pretty nice loco....except...it is missing the instructions. I could probably figure it out in a pinch, but they would sure help! Does anyone have these? Thanks, Lance

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1927	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.

> .I have a Varney > Docksider with that early pickup (one wheel) arrangement, and am > going to convert it to later dual-wheel pickup so I can run it. > But, I've run mine on 12v with the other Varney, and I don't think > mine is 6V. > Other than that bit on top at the brushes and speed comparisons, any > way to tell? > > Dave > > >Hi Dave, Yes, I've used white Weldbond brand glue on wooden cars with no problems of wood warpage. My "swaybacks" are steam warped. If you have a Varney "Dockside" with the left rear driver electrical p/u, unless someone has subsequently changed the motor to the later 12V Pitman DC- 60, it's the first 6V Pitman. You can easily tell the difference between the two by looking at the armature poles or "sections". The 6V Pitman had three poles, & the 12V DC-60 had five poles. For heavy running, you can easily replace the 6V Pitman with the 12V DC-60, & just leave the one driver electrical p/u which will be fine. Hope this helps....Ken > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1928	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lance" <davinci1953@...> wrote: > > Hello, > I'm a newcomer to this group. I like to run old stuff with my new. > > I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train show. > It is in perfect shape, complete and in the box. Looks like it would > build into a pretty nice loco....except...it is missing the > instructions. I could probably figure it out in a pinch, but they would > sure help! > > Does anyone have these? > > Thanks, > Lance > Welcome to the group Lance! You may find the instruction sheets under "Tyco" at http//:hoseeker.net Hope this helps....Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1929	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.

I have the chassis in my hand. The bottom cover is the extended one that angles up in the back with the motor screw through it, and the "gap" for the fibre spacer (don't think I have that), and the insulated wheels on the right side, not the left, and the wires to the motor on opposite sides that the later Varney Docksider I have.....yet it has 5 poles. Very strange. If you have > a Varney "Dockside" with the left rear driver electrical p/u, unless > someone has subsequently changed the motor to the later 12V Pitman DC- > 60, it's the first 6V Pitman. You can easily tell the difference > between the two by looking at the armature poles or "sections". The 6V > Pitman had three poles, & the 12V DC-60 had five poles. For heavy > running, you can easily replace the 6V Pitman with the 12V DC-60, & > just leave the one driver electrical p/u which will be fine. Hope this > helps....Ken > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1930	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I have the chassis in my hand. > The bottom cover is the extended one that angles up in the back with > the motor screw through it, and the "gap" for the fibre spacer (don't > think I have that), and the insulated wheels on the right side, not > the left, and the wires to the motor on opposite sides that the later > Varney Docksider I have.....yet it has 5 poles. > Very strange. > >Yep, you've got at least the 1941 65 year old "pre-war" "Dockside" frame! Sounds like someone replaced the 6V Pitman with a 12V variety. And, you're absolutely right that the early "Dockside's" drivers were insulated on the right side as both of mine are. A fibre spacer can be fabricated from a small piece of "circuit board" if you want to insulate the motor wire from the frame at that connection. Otherwise, if the piece runs forward when it's supposed to run forward you don't need to do anything to it....Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1931	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: 6V motor, was LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.

Absolutely fascinating!   Does anyone have a 6V motor suitable for the Varney Docksider that they'd consider selling to me or trading for 1940s model catalogs?   Andy Emmerson.         ----- Original Message ----- From: oahurailway To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar. --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > > I have the chassis in my hand. > The bottom cover is the extended one that angles up in the back with > the motor screw through it, and the "gap" for the fibre spacer (don't > think I have that), and the insulated wheels on the right side, not > the left, and the wires to the motor on opposite sides that the later > Varney Docksider I have.....yet it has 5 poles. > Very strange. > >Yep, you've got at least the 1941 65 year old "pre-war" "Dockside" frame! Sounds like someone replaced the 6V Pitman with a 12V variety. And, you're absolutely right that the early "Dockside's" drivers were insulated on the right side as both of mine are. A fibre spacer can be fabricated from a small piece of "circuit board" if you want to insulate the motor wire from the frame at that connection. Otherwise, if the piece runs forward when it's supposed to run forward you don't need to do anything to it....Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1932	From: Glenn	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts

Now that I recall it--that drive re-surfaced as "Olympic Express"--which should give another name to look for.  Japanese made.    They say that everything improves with age, but as I remember those were one of the best HO diesel drives ever made. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts Stephen L.   Thanks for your reply. I do not have a parts list, not sure what you refer to as the dog bone.   For one unit I need the plastic piece that connects the motor to the tower on top of the truck, and the cover or lid of the truck body...the kingpin is broken off leaving the truck floating on the frame. For the other unit I need the worm geared shaft that runs between the axles and connects to the gear on the tower. In general I was looking for a future source of parts for potential failures, I like to run my vintage models.   Wobbly913 MRLENGAL2U@aol. com wrote: Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L     -----Original Message----- From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics. > > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks. > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? > Wobbly913 > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1933	From: Glenn	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts

I recognize that drive--if you can't find the Athearn/Globe u-joints, get the old Hobbytown ones--I think that Micro Mark has them now. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 11:03 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L     -----Original Message----- From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics. > > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks. > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? > Wobbly913 > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1934	From: Glenn	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

I have not found my Mantua parts catalog since unpacking my library--but that loco is fairly straight-forward.  It is very similar to the Rogers 4-6-0 that is based on Sierra #3.  If you have a specific problem as to what goes where, ask me--   One thing it needs is to fill the cab with lead--just enough room for the motor, otherwise it is nose-heavy and won't pull worth beans. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 5:37 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Missing instructions Hello, I'm a newcomer to this group. I like to run old stuff with my new. I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train show. It is in perfect shape, complete and in the box. Looks like it would build into a pretty nice loco....except. ..it is missing the instructions. I could probably figure it out in a pinch, but they would sure help! Does anyone have these? Thanks, Lance

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1935	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

Dan has these up on his website Yardbird Trains, 4 pages, http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/SpecsM12Whlr.htm http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/SpecsM12Whlr2.htm http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/SpecsM12Whlr3.htm http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/SpecsM12Whlr4.htm All there. Hope that helps. Dave > Hello, > I'm a newcomer to this group. I like to run old stuff with my new. > > I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train show. > It is in perfect shape, complete and in the box. Looks like it would > build into a pretty nice loco....except...it is missing the > instructions. I could probably figure it out in a pinch, but they would > sure help! > > Does anyone have these? > > Thanks, > Lance >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1936	From: dhopf1	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

> I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train show. The Yardbird website has a instruction for the 4-8-0. Here's the address for the page that has the instruction. http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/YBMspecs.htm Hope this helps Don Hopf

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1937	From: Lance Russwurm	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

Thanks, Glen and Ken..... I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker. Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it.   Great first results with this group!   Lance oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lance" <davinci1953@ ...> wrote: > > Hello, > I'm a newcomer to this group. I like to run old stuff with my new. > > I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train show. > It is in perfect shape, complete and in the box. Looks like it would > build into a pretty nice loco....except. ..it is missing the > instructions. I could probably figure it out in a pinch, but they would > sure help! > > Does anyone have these? > > Thanks, > Lance > Welcome to the group Lance! You may find the instruction sheets under "Tyco" at http//:hoseeker. net Hope this helps....Ken Lance Russwurm   http://www.lancerusswurm.com   http://ca.geocities.com/stjacobsrr@.../ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1938	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lance Russwurm <davinci1953@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Glen and Ken..... > I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker. > Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it. > > Great first results with this group! > > Lance > > Great Lance! Glad you found the instructions you needed! Now be sure to keep us all posted of your construction progress! Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1939	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts

Thanks for the tip.  I will look into Micro Mark.   Wobbly913 Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: I recognize that drive--if you can't find the Athearn/Globe u-joints, get the old Hobbytown ones--I think that Micro Mark has them now. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 11:03 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L     -----Original Message----- From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics. > > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks. > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? > Wobbly913 > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1940	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts

I have two of those Olympic Express F7's, they are great runners.  I will have to take a closer look at them as compared to my globe units. I have a third Globe that is also an excelent running engine...even though it is about 50 years old.  That is why I would like to get the other two Globes up and running as well.   Wobbly913 Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: Now that I recall it--that drive re-surfaced as "Olympic Express"--which should give another name to look for.  Japanese made.    They say that everything improves with age, but as I remember those were one of the best HO diesel drives ever made. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts Stephen L.   Thanks for your reply. I do not have a parts list, not sure what you refer to as the dog bone.   For one unit I need the plastic piece that connects the motor to the tower on top of the truck, and the cover or lid of the truck body...the kingpin is broken off leaving the truck floating on the frame. For the other unit I need the worm geared shaft that runs between the axles and connects to the gear on the tower. In general I was looking for a future source of parts for potential failures, I like to run my vintage models.   Wobbly913 MRLENGAL2U@aol. com wrote: Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L     -----Original Message----- From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics. > > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks. > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? > Wobbly913 > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1941	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger

Things I picked up over the years. Someone asked about a 4-8-0.......so I dug mine out. Rubber tires? No idea vintage, says "Mantua". Then, there is a plastic 0-4-0 that says (faintly) Mantua. Saddle tank, but with the smokebox sticking out so not a "Docksider". Can't find it in the spec sheets yet. Missing the plastic snap-on headlight is all. Then there is one I have no idea, as no name anywhere. Similar body, but at least an inch longer, cab roof extends all the way to the back of the fuel bunker. 0-6-0, looks like it could use a trailing truck, there is so much rearward overhang. Crosshead guides are square brass like a Yardbird and Varney Docksider, no name on the bottom plate, PLASTIC shell, has reduction gears you can see, main gear offset to the side of the opening in the bottom cover. All meat chassis, pilot deck and cylinders, thin siderods, looks like cast main and crosshead. Guess I'll go tear it down for an inspection and see what I have. Okay, this 0-6-0 is strange. The ONLY numbers anywhere are on the rear crosshead support (cast, with rivet detail), 01-103. Slide valve (flat-top cylinders), wire to simulate inside valve gear, diamond-plate front deck, lead weight that is cast with full rivet detail where it is exposed under the plastic, rivet detail on the cylinder saddle, cast air pump on the fireman's side of the smokebox. I am looking at a "kit", as the metal parts are hand-painted with Floquil (badly). I fixed the "badly" part for now. The bottom cover is Phillips-head sheet metal screws, not machone slotted. There is another set of driver journals, just forward of #1 and aft of #3, like you could have a "stretch" version. The motor, while open-frame, is weird, in that the front plate is plastic, with the spring for the brushes pivoted at the bottom, the spring wires run vertically up past the shaft to contact the brushes at the top. I found what I think it is. An MDC "Yardhog", except no idea on vintage, as all the spec sheets I can find so far show a classic worm and worm gear, not a gear reduction. This thing, at wide-open throttle, creeps. Keeper! This is really strange. Two months ago I didn't have any Half-Zero out, now I've got all our old stuff and rebuilding it. 9 older or die-cast steamers, 2 cast diesels, a bunch of old Athearn diesels.........with all the rolling stock, I could start a railroad......

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1942	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger

Sounds like an early late-model Yardhog by MDC.   I have the 0-6-0 w/tender cersion - slow and creepy(nice that way) but awful noisy! Vintage about 1986 or so.   I also have the old cast version - several in varying states of repair - not as slow but heavier and relatively quiet for their age.   My 1958 Yardhog($8.50 when Dad got it for me) has about had it - but she took a lot of abuse thgrough my young teen years and kept coming back for more. Finally died of a number ofthings but the killer was that the magent got weak!   Fred(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Things I picked up over the years. Someone asked about a 4-8-0.......so I dug mine out. Rubber tires? No idea vintage, says "Mantua". Then, there is a plastic 0-4-0 that says (faintly) Mantua. Saddle tank, but with the smokebox sticking out so not a "Docksider". Can't find it in the spec sheets yet. Missing the plastic snap-on headlight is all. Then there is one I have no idea, as no name anywhere. Similar body, but at least an inch longer, cab roof extends all the way to the back of the fuel bunker. 0-6-0, looks like it could use a trailing truck, there is so much rearward overhang. Crosshead guides are square brass like a Yardbird and Varney Docksider, no name on the bottom plate, PLASTIC shell, has reduction gears you can see, main gear offset to the side of the opening in the bottom cover. All meat chassis, pilot deck and cylinders, thin siderods, looks like cast main and crosshead. Guess I'll go tear it down for an inspection and see what I have. Okay, this 0-6-0 is strange. The ONLY numbers anywhere are on the rear crosshead support (cast, with rivet detail), 01-103. Slide valve (flat-top cylinders), wire to simulate inside valve gear, diamond-plate front deck, lead weight that is cast with full rivet detail where it is exposed under the plastic, rivet detail on the cylinder saddle, cast air pump on the fireman's side of the smokebox. I am looking at a "kit", as the metal parts are hand-painted with Floquil (badly). I fixed the "badly" part for now. The bottom cover is Phillips-head sheet metal screws, not machone slotted. There is another set of driver journals, just forward of #1 and aft of #3, like you could have a "stretch" version. The motor, while open-frame, is weird, in that the front plate is plastic, with the spring for the brushes pivoted at the bottom, the spring wires run vertically up past the shaft to contact the brushes at the top. I found what I think it is. An MDC "Yardhog", except no idea on vintage, as all the spec sheets I can find so far show a classic worm and worm gear, not a gear reduction. This thing, at wide-open throttle, creeps. Keeper! This is really strange. Two months ago I didn't have any Half-Zero out, now I've got all our old stuff and rebuilding it. 9 older or die-cast steamers, 2 cast diesels, a bunch of old Athearn diesels.........with all the rolling stock, I could start a railroad...... Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1943	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts

Wobbly... The piece that I am referring to as a dogbone is the same part that you are describing as the piece between the tower and the motor. I have extra complete trucks, which would include the parts you are describing. (Except that dogbone piece... that seems to be the hardest piece to come by...)Send your mailing address to my e-mail address (mrlengal2u@...) and I will mail you two of them, no charge. They won't be new, obviously, but I will make sure that they will work for your purpose. I just hate to see otherwise good vintage pieces go to waste. Stephen     -----Original Message----- From: wobbly913@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts I have two of those Olympic Express F7's, they are great runners.  I will have to take a closer look at them as compared to my globe units. I have a third Globe that is also an excelent running engine...even though it is about 50 years old.  That is why I would like to get the other two Globes up and running as well.   Wobbly913 Glenn <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Now that I recall it--that drive re-surfaced as "Olympic Express"--which should give another name to look for.  Japanese made.    They say that everything improves with age, but as I remember those were one of the best HO diesel drives ever made. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts Stephen L.   Thanks for your reply. I do not have a parts list, not sure what you refer to as the dog bone.   For one unit I need the plastic piece that connects the motor to the tower on top of the truck, and the cover or lid of the truck body...the kingpin is broken off leaving the truck floating on the frame. For the other unit I need the worm geared shaft that runs between the axles and connects to the gear on the tower. In general I was looking for a future source of parts for potential failures, I like to run my vintage models.   Wobbly913 MRLENGAL2U@aol. com wrote: Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L     -----Original Message----- From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics. > > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks. > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? > Wobbly913 > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1944	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger

Doing research on this tonight, I have come to the conclusion that to "fit" in with the rest of my die-cast stuff, I need to find an old cast superstructure for it. Anybody got a spare? Paint is immaterial, as I glass-bead them anyway. Dave > > Sounds like an early late-model Yardhog by MDC. > > I have the 0-6-0 w/tender cersion - slow and creepy(nice that way) but awful noisy! Vintage about 1986 or so. > > I also have the old cast version - several in varying states of repair - not as slow but heavier and relatively quiet for their age. > > My 1958 Yardhog($8.50 when Dad got it for me) has about had it - but she took a lot of abuse thgrough my young teen years and kept coming back for more. Finally died of a number ofthings but the killer was that the magent got weak! > > Fred(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1945	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts

Thanks for your very kind offer, I will send my address off list.  As to the connecting link, Hobbytown of Boston,  http://www.hobbytownofboston.com  offers some parts that might combine to make that link.  They are a universal coupling ball along with a piece of square drive rod.  Two of the coupling balls  connected by the square rod, if the coupling balls are the right size. They also offer a coupling socket that looks a lot like the Globe version...if the sizes line up.   Wobbly913  MRLENGAL2U@... wrote:  Wobbly... The piece that I am referring to as a dogbone is the same part that you are describing as the piece between the tower and the motor. I have extra complete trucks, which would include the parts you are describing. (Except that dogbone piece... that seems to be the hardest piece to come by...)Send your mailing address to my e-mail address (mrlengal2u@...) and I will mail you two of them, no charge. They won't be new, obviously, but I will make sure that they will work for your purpose. I just hate to see otherwise good vintage pieces go to waste. Stephen     -----Original Message----- From: wobbly913@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts I have two of those Olympic Express F7's, they are great runners.  I will have to take a closer look at them as compared to my globe units. I have a third Globe that is also an excelent running engine...even though it is about 50 years old.  That is why I would like to get the other two Globes up and running as well.   Wobbly913 Glenn <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Now that I recall it--that drive re-surfaced as "Olympic Express"--which should give another name to look for.  Japanese made.    They say that everything improves with age, but as I remember those were one of the best HO diesel drives ever made. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts Stephen L.   Thanks for your reply. I do not have a parts list, not sure what you refer to as the dog bone.   For one unit I need the plastic piece that connects the motor to the tower on top of the truck, and the cover or lid of the truck body...the kingpin is broken off leaving the truck floating on the frame. For the other unit I need the worm geared shaft that runs between the axles and connects to the gear on the tower. In general I was looking for a future source of parts for potential failures, I like to run my vintage models.   Wobbly913 MRLENGAL2U@aol. com wrote: Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L     -----Original Message----- From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics. > > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks. > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives? > Wobbly913 > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1946	From: Lance Russwurm	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

Thanks, Dave and Don......that Yardbird site material looks excellent!   Ken.....I probably won't be getting to it right away....but, now emboldened.......do I dare trry installing a Soundtrax small steam decoder into it that I just happen to have laying around here without a home? It's a possibility. (Do you guys tend to be purists about keeping things original? I will use anything, old or new, hopped up or not...as long as it works well)   Lance oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Lance Russwurm <davinci1953@ ...> wrote: > > Thanks, Glen and Ken..... > I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker. > Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it. > > Great first results with this group! > > Lance > > Great Lance! Glad you found the instructions you needed! Now be sure to keep us all posted of your construction progress! Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail. yahoo.com > Lance Russwurm   http://www.lancerusswurm.com   http://ca.geocities.com/stjacobsrr@.../ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1947	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger

Dave, That's the neat aspect of this hobby... you can pull stuff out of the attic or basement and have the enjoyment of putting it back to useful enjoyment!   Dan    ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 10:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger Things I picked up over the years. Someone asked about a 4-8-0....... so I dug mine out. Rubber tires? No idea vintage, says "Mantua". Then, there is a plastic 0-4-0 that says (faintly) Mantua. Saddle tank, but with the smokebox sticking out so not a "Docksider". Can't find it in the spec sheets yet. Missing the plastic snap-on headlight is all. Then there is one I have no idea, as no name anywhere. Similar body, but at least an inch longer, cab roof extends all the way to the back of the fuel bunker. 0-6-0, looks like it could use a trailing truck, there is so much rearward overhang. Crosshead guides are square brass like a Yardbird and Varney Docksider, no name on the bottom plate, PLASTIC shell, has reduction gears you can see, main gear offset to the side of the opening in the bottom cover. All meat chassis, pilot deck and cylinders, thin siderods, looks like cast main and crosshead. Guess I'll go tear it down for an inspection and see what I have. Okay, this 0-6-0 is strange. The ONLY numbers anywhere are on the rear crosshead support (cast, with rivet detail), 01-103. Slide valve (flat-top cylinders), wire to simulate inside valve gear, diamond-plate front deck, lead weight that is cast with full rivet detail where it is exposed under the plastic, rivet detail on the cylinder saddle, cast air pump on the fireman's side of the smokebox. I am looking at a "kit", as the metal parts are hand-painted with Floquil (badly). I fixed the "badly" part for now. The bottom cover is Phillips-head sheet metal screws, not machone slotted. There is another set of driver journals, just forward of #1 and aft of #3, like you could have a "stretch" version. The motor, while open-frame, is weird, in that the front plate is plastic, with the spring for the brushes pivoted at the bottom, the spring wires run vertically up past the shaft to contact the brushes at the top. I found what I think it is. An MDC "Yardhog", except no idea on vintage, as all the spec sheets I can find so far show a classic worm and worm gear, not a gear reduction. This thing, at wide-open throttle, creeps. Keeper! This is really strange. Two months ago I didn't have any Half-Zero out, now I've got all our old stuff and rebuilding it. 9 older or die-cast steamers, 2 cast diesels, a bunch of old Athearn diesels..... ....with all the rolling stock, I could start a railroad.... ..

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1948	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Walthers Gon

Attachments : The lataest eBay treasure a Walthers gondola with what might be Walthers Auto Couplers. Needing new decals and a general rehab. Roger Aultman -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1949	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

What is "HO Seeker". I couldn't find any reference to it doing a Google search. Mike Lance Russwurm wrote: > > > Thanks, Glen and Ken..... > I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker. > Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it. > > Great first results with this group! > > Lance > -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@...> Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. -T.S. Eliot, poet (1888-1965)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1950	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

http://www.hoseeker.net/   Great site...lots of good information and literature   Wobbly913 Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: What is "HO Seeker". I couldn't find any reference to it doing a Google search. Mike Lance Russwurm wrote: > > > Thanks, Glen and Ken..... > I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker. > Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it. > > Great first results with this group! > > Lance > -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ Website: Images: Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. -T.S. Eliot, poet (1888-1965) Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1951	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

Oh, I dunno......I have a cast metal Varney NW-2 (they called them SW-7's) with a Hobbytown of Boston chassis, remotored with a new can motor and a Digitrax DZ123 running on my railroad. I think it is nice to have vintage trains in actual use. I have a couple of old cast metal Mantua Sharknoses, but am not sure I want to put decoders in those puppies. I also love to bash the old Mantua steamers into something that has a lot more detail than the old days. I think you will find all kinds here, from the purists to those like me. But, getting back to your question about a Soundtraxx, hmmm, I think I would make sure it had a can motor in it first. I am assuming it has an open frame Mantua type motor. It is your railroad, so just have FUN! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: Lance Russwurm <davinci1953@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Missing instructions Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 04:36:04 -0800 (PST) Thanks, Dave and Don......that Yardbird site material looks excellent! Ken.....I probably won't be getting to it right away....but, now emboldened.......do I dare trry installing a Soundtrax small steam decoder into it that I just happen to have laying around here without a home? It's a possibility. (Do you guys tend to be purists about keeping things original? I will use anything, old or new, hopped up or not...as long as it works well) Lance oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lance Russwurm <davinci1953@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Glen and Ken..... > I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker. > Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it. > > Great first results with this group! > > Lance > > Great Lance! Glad you found the instructions you needed! Now be sure to keep us all posted of your construction progress! Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Lance Russwurm http://www.lancerusswurm.com http://ca.geocities.com/stjacobsrr@.../ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song.� Get a customized station.� Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1952	From: Lance Russwurm	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

Hi Vic.... Yes, it has the old open frame motor. What's the problem with these? That they don't run as smoothly, or, do they cause interference or something with the decoder? I've heard that the magnets can get weak with age too. I almost certainly will look into a re-motoring job. Being naturally lazy, I'd hate to do all the work just to have a lousy runner.   I agree...it's nice to see vintage stuff running on a modern layout. It probably started back when we were in childhood....all the hours spent drooling over items in catalogues that we couldn't afford on our allowance back then. I prefer things to look reasonably "scale", and I like it to run well...and a surprisingly large amount of old items fill both requirements, although it might take a bit of tweaking. If it ever stops being fun, I'd instantly leave the hobby! Lance     Lance Russwurm   http://www.lancerusswurm.com   http://ca.geocities.com/stjacobsrr@.../ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1953	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lance Russwurm <davinci1953@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Dave and Don......that Yardbird site material looks excellent! > > Ken.....I probably won't be getting to it right away....but, now emboldened.......do I dare trry installing a Soundtrax small steam decoder into it that I just happen to have laying around here without a home? It's a possibility. (Do you guys tend to be purists about keeping things original? I will use anything, old or new, hopped up or not...as long as it works well) > > Lance > > > Why not Lance? But, that's not my expertise. However, there are several other Yahoo! Groups that deal with DCC. Just go to the top of the page & click on "Groups Home" then Hobbies & Crafts > Models > Trains and Railroads. Have fun! Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > Lance Russwurm > > http://www.lancerusswurm.com > > http://ca.geocities.com/stjacobsrr@.../ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1954	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > What is "HO Seeker". I couldn't find any reference to it doing a Google > search. > > Mike > > Hi Mike, HO Seeker is a compilation of all sorts of vintage instruction sheets & catalogs, which we all can add to for reference. It's located at: http://www.hoseeker.net ....Ken > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1955	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Gon

> a Walthers gondola with what might be Walthers Auto Couplers. Yes, indeed. "A Booklet on Couplers" issued by Walthers in 1940 and 1948 (mine is the second edition) has descriptions and drawings of a large number of model (and prototype) couplers. The pattern in your photo is described on pages 29 to 31; it was introduced by Walthers on their layout at the New York World's Fair. Let me know if you want a scan... Andy Emmerson.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1956	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions

No, we're not purists, if you want to convert to DCC & sound, feel free, we won't criticize.  I do suggest however that the questions about doing it should belong in another group.  The last thing I want to happen here is get people embroiled in a DC vs. DCC debate, which these kinds of questions often create.   Background information that you need to know before trying it, like how is the loco wired, and what kind of current it draws, regearing, repairing, all are OK,.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY     ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance Russwurm To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Missing instructions Thanks, Dave and Don......that Yardbird site material looks excellent!   Ken.....I probably won't be getting to it right away....but, now emboldened.......do I dare trry installing a Soundtrax small steam decoder into it that I just happen to have laying around here without a home? It's a possibility. (Do you guys tend to be purists about keeping things original? I will use anything, old or new, hopped up or not...as long as it works well)   Lance   (text deleted)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1957	From: Glenn	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger

OK--you figured out what I ws going to tell you--that is an MDC--originally had a die-cast everything. It is a variation of the SP 0-6-0. (That one goes back to 1937 or 38, originally tooled by Cliff Grandt. "Roundhouse" was fairly late getting back in operation after WWII, not surfacing in the ads in MR until late 1947 or early 1948, whereas Mantua and Varney were running ads before the fighting was over.  The plastic boiler and cab, and reduction drive, are later variations. the original came out in mid 50's. Suggestion--a "live steamers club" on the garden railway? ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger Things I picked up over the years. Someone asked about a 4-8-0....... so I dug mine out. Rubber tires? No idea vintage, says "Mantua". Then, there is a plastic 0-4-0 that says (faintly) Mantua. Saddle tank, but with the smokebox sticking out so not a "Docksider". Can't find it in the spec sheets yet. Missing the plastic snap-on headlight is all. Then there is one I have no idea, as no name anywhere. Similar body, but at least an inch longer, cab roof extends all the way to the back of the fuel bunker. 0-6-0, looks like it could use a trailing truck, there is so much rearward overhang. Crosshead guides are square brass like a Yardbird and Varney Docksider, no name on the bottom plate, PLASTIC shell, has reduction gears you can see, main gear offset to the side of the opening in the bottom cover. All meat chassis, pilot deck and cylinders, thin siderods, looks like cast main and crosshead. Guess I'll go tear it down for an inspection and see what I have. Okay, this 0-6-0 is strange. The ONLY numbers anywhere are on the rear crosshead support (cast, with rivet detail), 01-103. Slide valve (flat-top cylinders), wire to simulate inside valve gear, diamond-plate front deck, lead weight that is cast with full rivet detail where it is exposed under the plastic, rivet detail on the cylinder saddle, cast air pump on the fireman's side of the smokebox. I am looking at a "kit", as the metal parts are hand-painted with Floquil (badly). I fixed the "badly" part for now. The bottom cover is Phillips-head sheet metal screws, not machone slotted. There is another set of driver journals, just forward of #1 and aft of #3, like you could have a "stretch" version. The motor, while open-frame, is weird, in that the front plate is plastic, with the spring for the brushes pivoted at the bottom, the spring wires run vertically up past the shaft to contact the brushes at the top. I found what I think it is. An MDC "Yardhog", except no idea on vintage, as all the spec sheets I can find so far show a classic worm and worm gear, not a gear reduction. This thing, at wide-open throttle, creeps. Keeper! This is really strange. Two months ago I didn't have any Half-Zero out, now I've got all our old stuff and rebuilding it. 9 older or die-cast steamers, 2 cast diesels, a bunch of old Athearn diesels..... ....with all the rolling stock, I could start a railroad.... ..

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1958	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Gon

Andrew Emmerson wrote: >> a Walthers gondola with what might be Walthers Auto Couplers. > > > Yes, indeed. "A Booklet on Couplers" issued by Walthers in 1940 and 1948 > (mine is the second edition) has descriptions and drawings of a large number > of model (and prototype) couplers. > > The pattern in your photo is described on pages 29 to 31; it was introduced > by Walthers on their layout at the New York World's Fair. Let me know if you > want a scan... > > Andy Emmerson. Thank you Andy, that would be most useful in the files section of this group. Roger Aultman > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1959	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /Cover Photo Contest Uploaded by : don_dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Description : Rules for new cover contest You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Cover%20Photo%20Contest To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, don_dellmann <don.dellmann@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1960	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: More additions to the roster

Attachments : Added a couple more vintage cars to the roster (actually 5, although these are the only two that fall into the "vintage" catagory). Unfortunately, both are duplicates of cars I already have. I renumbered the Wabash one, now I just need to weather it to tone down the one bright number, the B&M one needs renumbering, but not sure yet how I'm going to do it. A bit of solvaset on the Wabash car and the number wiped right off with kleenex, The same treatment to the B&M car, and nothing, it wouldn't touch it. Not sure if I want to try something stronger or paint over the number. For now on the car cards the two cars are defined as "weathered" and "clean" <G>. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1961	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: Mystery gondola

Attachments : Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox, and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT have be an old Mantua. Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-in-Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308 I think the mystery's solved. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1962	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: General Questions.......

Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group. Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that catagory......:-) I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496: This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you bought the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not assembled ), but glue and paints along with decals....... My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit appears to be complete but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still has some of the solvent ( Oil ) in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the bottom. The red doesn't appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a silver unlabeled tube of what I am guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat to see the plan sheet that came with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen. ( Old school draughtsman knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen was in vogue, but it wasn't too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen were frustrated artists.....:-) One other question if I may: Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today? Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide. Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton" _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song.� Get a customized station.� Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1963	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......

00 not quite equates yo half zero. Hence the downfall of ScaleCraft. I have a BUNCH of 1:48 and 17/64ths "0" stuff, love it, but they tied their horse to the wrong cart and were gone by 1946, I think. Seen a lot of their "00" stuff, the cast passenger cars are miniatures of the "0" ones, but worth? Whatever someone will give you for it. Dave > > Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group. > > Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that > catagory......:-) > > I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers > > Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496: > > This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you > bought > the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not > assembled ), but > glue and paints along with decals....... > > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? > Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit > appears to be complete > but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still > has some of the solvent ( Oil ) > in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the > bottom. The red doesn't > appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a > silver unlabeled tube of what I am > guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat to > see the plan sheet that came > with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen. > ( Old school draughtsman > knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen was > in vogue, but it wasn't > too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen were > frustrated artists.....:-) > > One other question if I may: > > Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today? > > Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide. > > Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton" > > _________________________________________________________________ > Type your favorite song.  Get a customized station.  Try MSN Radio powered > by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1964	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......

----- Original Message ----- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] General Questions....... > Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group. > > Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that > catagory......:-) > > I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers > > Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496: > > This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when > you > bought > the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not > assembled ), but > glue and paints along with decals....... > > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? > Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit > appears to be complete > but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still > has some of the solvent ( Oil ) > in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the > bottom. The red doesn't > appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a > silver unlabeled tube of what I am > guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat > to > see the plan sheet that came > with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen. > ( Old school draughtsman > knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen > was > in vogue, but it wasn't > too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen > were > frustrated artists.....:-) > > One other question if I may: > > Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today? > > Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide. > > Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton" OO is 4mm = 1 ft., as opposed to HO's 3.5mm scale. After WW II there was aperiod when it looked like OO may become popular in this country, but eventually by the early 1950's HO won out. There were still a few OO layouts in operation into the 60's, but most proponents in the US have died off. In great Britain OO is still popular as a scale, but usually runs on HO gauge As far as what it's worth, whatever someone will pay. The Lionel & Marx transformers will probably be worth something if they're still good, watch eBay auctions to see what they're going for. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1965	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: > > > > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? > Does the above referenced item have any value? ( > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hi Loren, The NMRA also has a SIG (special interest group) devoted to American OO Gauge....Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1966	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: > > > > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? > Does the above referenced item have any value? ( > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hi Loren, The NMRA also has a SIG (special interest group) devoted to American OO Gauge....Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1967	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: The "Camelot" of OO...

Dear Loren,   The OO is British (I think you know that) and is slightly larger than HO in scale dimensions. The greatest OO layout I ever saw was almost forty years ago in a suburb of Philadelphia, Pa., built by a then retired gentleman named (if I recall right) Ed Costello. It was featured on the cover of an issue of Railroad Model Craftsman in the later 1970's, not too long before or just after the 1977 NMRA national convention (here in Denver) elevated him to the ranks of the master craftsmen. Well he deserved that.   His "Saint Anne" railroad (named for his wife) was a marvel in many ways. He actually machined his own scale rail...beside hand-laying it. He built all of his own locomotives, including some second or third generation diesels (he was not just steam.)  He had operating block operations that controlled his trains over the same track way ahead of modern day systems...it looked like the thing ran itself...and not a computer in sight in his place. For a change of pace, he dimmed the attic lights and the scene became night with properly illuminated towns and individual structures along the rights-of-way. I'd put it up against any DCC operation today (and I'm not DCC.)  It was, in its time, the magnificent marriage of existing technology and art, having been by 1968 (when I was first there) 35+ years into its construction (what layout is ever finished?)   The one gentleman is right. The OO modelers here are gone-as I'm sure Ed is. I do not know about any others of that scale, but what I saw would have been worthy of the Smithsonian after his death. I fear it has vanished like the ancient cities and temples along the Nile, a tribute to a magnificence that once was.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)          Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group. Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that catagory......:-) I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496: This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you bought the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not assembled ), but glue and paints along with decals....... My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit appears to be complete but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still has some of the solvent ( Oil ) in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the bottom. The red doesn't appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a silver unlabeled tube of what I am guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat to see the plan sheet that came with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen. ( Old school draughtsman knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen was in vogue, but it wasn't too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen were frustrated artists.....:-) One other question if I may: Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today? Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide. Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton" _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song.  Get a customized station.  Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1968	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /Walthers_auto_coupler.pdf Uploaded by : original_midshires <andrew.emmerson4@...> Description : Walthers 1939 auto coupler You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Walthers_auto_coupler.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, original_midshires <andrew.emmerson4@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1969	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Hi, I too have looked at this railcar that is listed on Ebay and it is just as you said it was... Yours Truly, Marynn Our HO Scale Layout: (Take A L@@K !):) http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train.html --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox, > and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT > have be an old Mantua. > > Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-in- Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308 > > I think the mystery's solved. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1970	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG> Dave S. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox, and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT have be an old Mantua. Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-in- Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308 I think the mystery's solved. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1971	From: Larry	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides. http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg Larry http://www.hoseeker.net/ --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: > > Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well... <VBG> > Dave S. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > wrote: > > > >> Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the > >> > > scrapbox, > > > >> and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was > >> > > it MIGHT > > > >> have be an old Mantua. > >> > >> Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today > >> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car- in- > >> > > Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308 > > > >> I think the mystery's solved. > >> > >> Don > >> > >> don.dellmann@ > >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > >> Owner-Moderator > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> Co-moderator > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1972	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Dave,   The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..   The car itself is intriguing...and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.   As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.   Sincerely,   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)     Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG> Dave S. --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox, and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT have be an old Mantua. Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today http://cgi.ebay. com/Vintage- Mantua-TP- Texas-Pacific- Gondola-Car- in- Box_W0QQitemZ130065 468308 I think the mystery's solved. Don don.dellmann@ ... http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1973	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

I'm impressed, WAY back then they even had a CN side for the car..   <VBG> Dave S. Larry wrote: I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides. http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg Larry http://www.hoseeker.net/ --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well... <VBG> Dave S. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox, and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT have be an old Mantua. Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car- in- Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308 I think the mystery's solved. Don don.dellmann@ http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1974	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......

Attachments : Loren, Dave and list: For evaluation and precise measurement, OO scale is 4.0 mm to the foot whereas, HO scale is 3.5 mm to the foot. Negligeable difference but, definitely and noticeably larger. HO designation was and is, half O scale however, 7 mm is not the same as 1/4" to the foot. 7 mm is, 17/64" scale, sometimes refered to as Q scale. To the discerning eye, Q scale is more desireable as that matches the track gauge commonly used with O scale model railroads. Confused? Who knows why the O scale track gauge is not exact to 1/4" scale, I don't. FWIW.... Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1975	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Those are actually Mantua hook & loop which were standard when it was new.  The loop is not as wide as the Triang, and is loose allowing vertical movement for aouto uncoupling.  The Triang as I recall (at least the ones I saw) had a much wider loop that was fixed directly to the frame.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG> Dave S. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox, and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT have be an old Mantua. Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-in- Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308 I think the mystery's solved. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1976	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

The same seller has some original Mantua tank cars with tank wrapper too. Those I'm almost tempted to bid. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry" <seekingho@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola >I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides. > http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg > Larry > http://www.hoseeker.net/ > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: >> >> Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as > well... <VBG> >> Dave S. >> > >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the >> >> >> > scrapbox, >> > >> >> and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus > was >> >> >> > it MIGHT >> > >> >> have be an old Mantua. >> >> >> >> Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today >> >> >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car- > in- >> >> >> > Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308 >> > >> >> I think the mystery's solved. >> >> >> >> Don >> >> >> >> don.dellmann@ >> >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> >> Owner-Moderator >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> >> Co-moderator >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1977	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Errors from copying models are nothing new.  The same way with plans.  One of the most famous ones was back in the late '50's Lynn Wescott drew a plan for MODEL RAILROADER of a Vulcan 0-4-2-t saddle tanker.  As a lark, he included on the plan the herald for his own fictional "Northwest" railway.   A couple years later, Athearn brought out their "Li'l monster" 0-4-2-t Vulcan, and sure enough, there was the "NW" herald proudly emblazoned on the tank.  What's even funnier, a year or so later GEM imported a BRASS version, and it too had the "Northwest" herald.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola Dave,   The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..   The car itself is intriguing...and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.   As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.   Sincerely,   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1978	From: Jack Priller	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

I have one of those tank cars available if you're interested; assembled, "Deep Rock" wrapper, sans couplers. Jack Priller Still loose in El Paso --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > The same seller has some original Mantua tank cars with tank wrapper too. > Those I'm almost tempted to bid. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1979	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola

> The Triang as I recall (at least the ones I saw) had a much wider loop > that was fixed directly to the frame. Perfectly correct. It still is. Bachmann 4mm scale products for the British market have a slightly narrower version of the Triang (now Hornby) coupler that looks fairly similar to the old (German) Fleischmann coupler. Old timer of course recognise all of these as copies of the old Baker couplers used in the USA and still produced in Japan. QUESTION: Does anyone know who 'Baker' was and which makes first used Baker couplers? For those who may be puzzled, the Hornby of today is not the Hornby of old. Hornby Dublo trains (16.5mm gauge, 4mm scale) were introduced in 1938 (http://www.hrca.net/hornby_dublo_history.html) and in those days used a coupler not dissimilar to the Mantua loop. In 1947 they adopted the Peco 'Simplex' coupling. Around the same time British Trix trains changed to the same Simplex coupler from the pre-war Trix coupler. In 1964 Hornby Dublo was taken over by Triang, who then used the Hornby name (which had a longer history) for the combined product range. Andy Emmerson.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1980	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

Attachments : Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1981	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......

Hi, I think some of the other folks can give you a better answer on the details of oo scale. I do know it is NOT the same as HO. The oo scale is a bit bigger than HO, but uses the same track gauge. I think you can probably run your oo cars with the HO, but they will look a bit out of scale. As far as the transformers, I never throw away old transformers. Some of the more powerful Lionel transformers might be usable as power supplies for DCC controllers. Also, don't forget the old transformers may be used to power light, switch machines, animation, and sound modules. Mostly in order to use them you will need to know the voltage and current rating capablilities. An inexpensive Radio Shack, Home Depot, or Lowes multimeter would be very useful for these applications. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] General Questions....... Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:41:34 -0800 Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group. Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that catagory......:-) I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496: This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you bought the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not assembled ), but glue and paints along with decals....... My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit appears to be complete but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still has some of the solvent ( Oil ) in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the bottom. The red doesn't appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a silver unlabeled tube of what I am guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat to see the plan sheet that came with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen. ( Old school draughtsman knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen was in vogue, but it wasn't too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen were frustrated artists.....:-) One other question if I may: Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today? Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide. Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton" _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 Yahoo! Groups Links _________________________________________________________________ From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1982	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

Attachments : And another one!   Andy Emmerson.     ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: VINTAGE H-0 Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1983	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did).   North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use 4mm to the foot.   There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefour.org/).   The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't have my notes beside me right now).   A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8" electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors.   Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late 1920s all the  trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for the 4mm scale.   As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale.   By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british-ho.com).   Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:   1.  The compact, folding 16.5mm layout 2.  The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth 3.  The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.   His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many copies here and in Continental Europe later.   Andy Emmerson.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1984	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola

----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] couplers, was Mystery gondola >> The Triang as I recall (at least the ones I saw) had a much wider loop >> that was fixed directly to the frame. > > Perfectly correct. It still is. Bachmann 4mm scale products for the > British > market have a slightly narrower version of the Triang (now Hornby) coupler > that looks fairly similar to the old (German) Fleischmann coupler. Old > timer > of course recognise all of these as copies of the old Baker couplers used > in > the USA and still produced in Japan. > > QUESTION: Does anyone know who 'Baker' was and which makes first used > Baker > couplers? I believe the company was "Baker Engineering" although I may be wrong. I don't think any manufacturer included them in kits, but the most famous user was of of course the late John Allen, who used Baker couplers exclusively on the Gorre & Daphetid right up to the end. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1985	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

A better example of the difference in size. Roger Aultman Andrew Emmerson wrote: > And another one! > > Andy Emmerson. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roger Aultman <mailto:raul@...> > To: VINTAGE H-0 <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:30 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON > > Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman > > -- > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm > <http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm> > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1986	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

I don't think so. Looks plastic to me. I have both. I believe the all metal with paper sides was a #C-700. The #310 was plastic. Not 100% sure. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote: > > I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides. > http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg > Larry > http://www.hoseeker.net/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1987	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

I don't think so. Looks plastic to me. I have both. I believe the all metal with paper sides was a #C-700. The #310 was plastic. Not 100% sure. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote: > > I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides. > http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg > Larry > http://www.hoseeker.net/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1988	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Old TriAng.

I have just posted some experimental shots of some TriAng stuff I have here, I was trying some different setting with my new camera. The pictures are in my Flickr album at http://www.flickr.com/photos/des-productions/sets/72157594465431577/ Dave S.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1989	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

Depends. Like running "0" on 1.25" track. Should be what, 1.130" or so? The dublo stuff coming out now (think "Thomas") runs on half-zero track. I read a dissertation once on North Amaerican 00 VS Brit Dublo, All the stuff here ran on half-zero track, if I recall, Lionel, ScaleCraft, all of them. Since this one was ScaleCraft (US Made), I didn't think a discussion of Euro gauge differences was part of it. Maybe so. BTW, in my 1941 ScaleCraft catalog, they list a C&NW 4-8-4, a 4-6-4, a 4-6-4T, an 0-6-0, gas-electrics, heavyweight passenger cars, reefers, box, stock,tank, flat, hopper and caboose. Just to ask, it's a K-1496 Reefer kit. What suffix? A was Fruit Grower's Express, B was C&NW, C was MDT, D was Wilson, and E was Pluto. To give an idea of size as compared to half-zero, dimensions from the catalog are, length over end sills 6-5/8", Extreme width1-9/16", Coupler Height 15/32" (compare to half-zero nmra standards....), and height from railhead to top of roofwalk, 2-3/16". Also, the 1937 catalog mentions the curtain going up on the new "00" line.... > > In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did). > > North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use 4mm to the foot. > > There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefour.org/). > > The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't have my notes beside me right now). > > A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8" electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors. > > Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late 1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for the 4mm scale. > > As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale. > > By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british- ho.com). > > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale: > > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm. > > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many copies here and in Continental Europe later. > > Andy Emmerson. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1990	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola

Attachments : Picture of a Baker on a Varney foil side Milwaukee Road ribside boxcar. It seems Baker also mad a power unit for the Globe F-7. Roger Aultman Andrew Emmerson wrote: > QUESTION: Does anyone know who 'Baker' was and which makes first used Baker > couplers? > > > Andy Emmerson. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1991	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

That's interesting. Wish there was someone who kept track of the box style, numbers, contents and changes Mantua made. I may bid on those myself cept I have to much now. Let me know if you go for it or not. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > The same seller has some original Mantua tank cars with tank wrapper too. > Those I'm almost tempted to bid. > > Don > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1992	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

That's interesting. Wish there was someone who kept track of the box style, numbers, contents and changes Mantua made. I may bid on those myself cept I have to much now. Let me know if you go for it or not. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > The same seller has some original Mantua tank cars with tank wrapper too. > Those I'm almost tempted to bid. > > Don > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1993	From: Jack Priller	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

"Eric Lanal" aka Allen Rice was also one of the 'fathers' of HO trolley modeling. If memory serves, he was a college professor (languages?) and didn't want his hobby known to his peers; hence the letter-scrambling for his nom de plume in 'our' world. Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@...> wrote: > > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale: > > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm. > > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many copies here and in Continental Europe later. > > Andy Emmerson. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1994	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

At the risk of being the spelling equivalent of a rivet counter, it was "Allan" with two a's.   But it's you are in good company as can even be seen at this NMRA page http://www.nmra.org/alltime.html which says:   "24. Rice, Allen Lake*. PA. aka Eric LaNal. HO pioneer early 1930s. Promoting Hobby. Mfd. H. Owen HO kits with paper sides. Promotion. Author RMC, MR 1930s, 1960s. Pioneer in 2-rail HO. Consultant to several mfrs (Megow, Mantua). LaNal coupler inventor. Mfd in England. Manufacturer H. Owen HO Kits early 1930s. NMRA Distinguished Service Award 1962"   It's a pretty intereting NMRA page, by the way.   I think I will email the NMRA on that minor typo.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Priller To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:55 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge "Eric Lanal" aka Allen Rice was also one of the 'fathers' of HO trolley modeling. If memory serves, he was a college professor (languages?) and didn't want his hobby known to his peers; hence the letter-scrambling for his nom de plume in 'our' world. Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@ ...> wrote: > > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale: > > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm. > > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many copies here and in Continental Europe later. > > Andy Emmerson. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1995	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

Wanna know why there is a NMRA? I seem seeing several instances where "HO" scale was referred to as 1/8"/ft. I've also seen statements saying "HO" stood for "half-O" (I'm talking 40's - early 50's here). It all seems to go back to the British using the metric system and us Americans using our sytems of...whatever it's called. I can't recall a name for it, but then I can't recall where I set my coffee down just as I began to type this. It's my CRS (can't remember s**t) kicking up again. In Merry Olde England and probably the rest of Europe, "O" scale was (is?) 7 mm scale so therefore, "HO" at 3.5 mm scale was "half O". But we imported certain standards from England, including the "O" scale track gauge and the 3.5 mm scale for "HO". Of course, we revolutionaries used 1/4"/ft scale (.635 mm) for everything "O" scale EXCEPT the track. The 17/64"/ft scale was much closer to the track scale and so a certain group of "O" scalers, including some manufacturers, built to that standard. When "HO" started overhere, some modelers, apparently wanting to use our fractional sysytem of measurement instead of the metric system, built 1/8" "HO" scale. Of course they used the 16.5 mm track so they were basically running on 5 ft gauge track just like their "O" scale brothern. Thankfully, the was little of the 1/8" "HO" scale. By the time "HO" gained much of a following, the NMRA had been established. I believe the hobby owes much of it's growth to the NMRA and the standards they established. Yeah, I know, they used the 1.25" track gauge as the "O" scale standard when it should of been 1.177". But "O" scale was already quite well established in 1935 and that was the most common scale/gauge in use. And their purpose was not to set standards that were exact-to-scale (who but a very few could get what is essentially Proto 48 to run in those days) but rather come up with workable standards that would be used on an industry-wide basis. "HO" was still very much in it's formative stages and they were able to set the standards to 3.5 mm scale. I would much rather model in "HO" here rather then "HO" or "OO" or dublo or what the h*#l scale(s) they have to deal with accross the pond there matey! I mean I really like much of the british steam but if I come accross a British prototype model locomotive for sale I can't figure out if it runs on "HO" track and if so is it "HO" or "OO" in scale..... John Hgen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Depends. > Like running "0" on 1.25" track. > Should be what, 1.130" or so? > The dublo stuff coming out now (think "Thomas") runs on half-zero > track. > I read a dissertation once on North Amaerican 00 VS Brit Dublo, > All the stuff here ran on half-zero track, if I recall, Lionel, > ScaleCraft, all of them. > Since this one was ScaleCraft (US Made), I didn't think a discussion > of Euro gauge differences was part of it. > Maybe so. > > BTW, in my 1941 ScaleCraft catalog, they list a C&NW 4-8-4, a 4-6- 4, > a 4-6-4T, an 0-6-0, gas-electrics, heavyweight passenger cars, > reefers, box, stock,tank, flat, hopper and caboose. > > Just to ask, it's a K-1496 Reefer kit. > What suffix? > A was Fruit Grower's Express, B was C&NW, C was MDT, D was Wilson, > and E was Pluto. > To give an idea of size as compared to half-zero, dimensions from > the catalog are, length over end sills 6-5/8", Extreme width1- 9/16", > Coupler Height 15/32" (compare to half-zero nmra standards....), and > height from railhead to top of roofwalk, 2-3/16". > > Also, the 1937 catalog mentions the curtain going up on the new "00" > line.... > > > > > > In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point > about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did). > > > > North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use > 4mm to the foot. > > > > There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm > finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefour.org/). > > > > The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, > when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or > 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a > trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't > have my notes beside me right now). > > > > A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry > Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for > electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North > American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and > proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8" > electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors. > > > > Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own > mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late > 1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge > horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive > bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for > the 4mm scale. > > > > As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later > in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico > magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors > possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more > room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the > problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale. > > > > By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all > commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We > still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british- > ho.com). > > > > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale: > > > > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout > > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth > > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm. > > > > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a > few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that > made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler > was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many > copies here and in Continental Europe later. > > > > Andy Emmerson. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1996	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge...and Other Scales/Gauges

Again-refinements in the specifications. Good to know. I see the term "fine scale" in Great Britain has another meaning from my days as a part-timer at Denver's Caboose Hobbies. In 1978-80, the term applied to American two rail "O" that was prototypically 4-feet, eight-and-one half inches between the railheads....like the real thing. The more available Atlas "O" was reportedly 5-feet between the railheads...broad gauge (as in the U.S.S.R.) It may still be.   Cooch made fine scale (O) passenger trucks way back then that showed up at Caboose Hobbies here and were back-shelved (but visible). Nobody (speaking of O customers) ever bought any-but the story was that the then manager was himself into that level of scale. I think D. Miller, the owner, had a talk about them with the then manager and why he had ordered them? It soon became readily apparent that they were so displayed as a cover for the manager's private stock-and he was told to buy them and take them home or they would be returned for a refund. I heard the former occurred quickly.   The mysterious TT scale/gauge was told to me in decades past to have "defected" behind the Iron Curtain of Cold War days. I suspect there are a few modelers into it still today here.   I need to save some of these postings for historical reasons, but in noting that I wonder if ON30 is taking off outside the USA? I was surprised t see that the track used for it is really HO, but then NN3 is really Z scale.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)     Andrew Emmerson <andrew.emmerson4@...> wrote: In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did).   North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use 4mm to the foot.   There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefou r.org/).   The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't have my notes beside me right now).   A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8" electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors.   Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late 1920s all the  trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for the 4mm scale.   As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale.   By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british- ho.com).   Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:   1.  The compact, folding 16.5mm layout 2.  The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth 3.  The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.   His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many copies here and in Continental Europe later.   Andy Emmerson.     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1997	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

H0 IS half-zero. I can send you to the Maerklin history and you can read it. When they came up with initial gauge designators, it was #0, #1, #2, #3, #4, #5..... When the motors got small enough they could make things smaller, it was "Half Zero". It isn't even "oh" gauge, it's "zero" gauge. The Brits called it "naught", and "H0" was "half-naught". The "S" guys were initially "H1", but they were smart cookies, realized they didn't want to be half of anything, so ended up with "S" as a designator. The "H0" guys had a saviour in the nmra, when they found out keyboards could be used to type in HO while holding the caps key and not having to let go for a "0". Plus, the nmra pushed "the" scale as HO. Revisionist history at it's best. If you think the "standards" with nmra never change, you have another think coming. Read old MR's and you'll get the idea. Can't have things that don't fit the nmra "idea", so it doesn't meet nmra standards, MR reports it, Walthers stocks only the nmra approved stuff. Can't have multiple scales on one gauge. Why do you think 17/64ths scale went away? Proper scale for 1.250" gauge track standard gauge. So, it's "unacceptable", and we later get "Proto48" which forever split the "0" gauge hobby with totally incompatible trackage. Half Zero. That's what it was, and anything else is simply revisionist history. > > Wanna know why there is a NMRA? I seem seeing several instances > where "HO" scale was referred to as 1/8"/ft. I've also seen > statements saying "HO" stood for "half-O" (I'm talking 40's - early > 50's here). It all seems to go back to the British using the metric > system and us Americans using our sytems of...whatever it's called. I > can't recall a name for it, but then I can't recall where I set my > coffee down just as I began to type this. It's my CRS (can't remember > s**t) kicking up again. In Merry Olde England and probably the rest > of Europe, "O" scale was (is?) 7 mm scale so therefore, "HO" at 3.5 > mm scale was "half O". But we imported certain standards from > England, including the "O" scale track gauge and the 3.5 mm scale > for "HO". Of course, we revolutionaries used 1/4"/ft scale (.635 mm) > for everything "O" scale EXCEPT the track. The 17/64"/ft scale was > much closer to the track scale and so a certain group of "O" scalers, > including some manufacturers, built to that standard. When "HO" > started overhere, some modelers, apparently wanting to use our > fractional sysytem of measurement instead of the metric system, built > 1/8" "HO" scale. Of course they used the 16.5 mm track so they were > basically running on 5 ft gauge track just like their "O" scale > brothern. Thankfully, the was little of the 1/8" "HO" scale. By the > time "HO" gained much of a following, the NMRA had been established. > I believe the hobby owes much of it's growth to the NMRA and the > standards they established. Yeah, I know, they used the 1.25" track > gauge as the "O" scale standard when it should of been 1.177". > But "O" scale was already quite well established in 1935 and that was > the most common scale/gauge in use. And their purpose was not to set > standards that were exact-to-scale (who but a very few could get what > is essentially Proto 48 to run in those days) but rather come up with > workable standards that would be used on an industry-wide basis. "HO" > was still very much in it's formative stages and they were able to > set the standards to 3.5 mm scale. I would much rather model in "HO" > here rather then "HO" or "OO" or dublo or what the h*#l scale(s) they > have to deal with accross the pond there matey! I mean I really like > much of the british steam but if I come accross a British prototype > model locomotive for sale I can't figure out if it runs on "HO" track > and if so is it "HO" or "OO" in scale..... > > John Hgen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > Depends. > > Like running "0" on 1.25" track. > > Should be what, 1.130" or so? > > The dublo stuff coming out now (think "Thomas") runs on half- zero > > track. > > I read a dissertation once on North Amaerican 00 VS Brit Dublo, > > All the stuff here ran on half-zero track, if I recall, Lionel, > > ScaleCraft, all of them. > > Since this one was ScaleCraft (US Made), I didn't think a > discussion > > of Euro gauge differences was part of it. > > Maybe so. > > > > BTW, in my 1941 ScaleCraft catalog, they list a C&NW 4-8-4, a 4- 6- > 4, > > a 4-6-4T, an 0-6-0, gas-electrics, heavyweight passenger cars, > > reefers, box, stock,tank, flat, hopper and caboose. > > > > Just to ask, it's a K-1496 Reefer kit. > > What suffix? > > A was Fruit Grower's Express, B was C&NW, C was MDT, D was Wilson, > > and E was Pluto. > > To give an idea of size as compared to half-zero, dimensions from > > the catalog are, length over end sills 6-5/8", Extreme width1- > 9/16", > > Coupler Height 15/32" (compare to half-zero nmra standards....), > and > > height from railhead to top of roofwalk, 2-3/16". > > > > Also, the 1937 catalog mentions the curtain going up on the > new "00" > > line.... > > > > > > > > > > In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the > point > > about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did). > > > > > > North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use > > 4mm to the foot. > > > > > > There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm > > finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefour.org/). > > > > > > The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, > > when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or > > 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a > > trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't > > have my notes beside me right now). > > > > > > A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry > > Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for > > electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North > > American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and > > proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8" > > electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own > motors. > > > > > > Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own > > mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late > > 1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge > > horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small > locomotive > > bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for > > the 4mm scale. > > > > > > As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later > > in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico > > magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors > > possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave > more > > room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the > > problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale. > > > > > > By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all > > commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We > > still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british- > > ho.com). > > > > > > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale: > > > > > > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout > > > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth > > > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm. > > > > > > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a > > few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that > > made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler > > was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many > > copies here and in Continental Europe later. > > > > > > Andy Emmerson. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1998	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Don--your car is definitely a Mantua.  The body should be a sheet metal channel with embossed card sides, die cast underframe and ends.  Frame held on with screws below the coupler pocket area.   The one on eBay is hard to tell--its box is too new for  that type car, as I recall them.  Never encountered a kit in other than the medium blue box.  There ws a transition period when they went to plastic bodies with the die-cast frame and had the Mantua couplers mounted to the trucks. The pix on eBay don't give a good look.  (I have examples of just about all the old Mantua line--missing only the Atlantic. )  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery gondola Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox, and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT have be an old Mantua. Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today http://cgi.ebay. com/Vintage- Mantua-TP- Texas-Pacific- Gondola-Car- in-Box_W0QQitemZ 130065468308 I think the mystery's solved. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 1999	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......

Loren--you seem to be old enough to barely remember those, as I do--the kit is the same vintage I am!. Scale Models, Inc. was also known as Scale Craft. It was an off-shoot of the Reuben R Donnelly printing firm--son Elliott Donnelly was the railroader. They made kits in both O and OO Scales. OO is not the same as today's HO--you're thinking British. US OO was 4mm to the foot, running on 19mm gauge track--which is very close to 3/4 inch. In fact, it was used by a lot of the early On3 modelers as a running start. It is an intereesting artifact. I have a moderate accumulation of SC OO equipment--if yoiu must dispose of the kit--let me know. In the mid-to late 1930's the majority of modelers were working in one of the O Scales (1/4", 17/64", or 7mm to the foot on 1 1/4" gauge track, or 1/4" scale on 1 3/16" gauge track, also known as "Q" gage. Even then there were movements to get away from the five-foot gauge models. Some were feeling the space pinch even then, and a pair of smaller scales entered the market--HO as we know it, 3.5 mm to the foot, and OO at 4mm to the ft. The two scales competed head to head until WWII shut down the production. After the war, HO manufacturers got back into the market a bit quicker and with more new goodies, and OO died out. Lionel had entered the OO market with a Hudson in two detail grades, and choice of 3-rail or 2-rail. They made die cast boxcars, tank cars, hoppers, and a caboose. The last three were blatant copies of the same kits by Scale Craft. SC's boxcars had a rather strangely peaked roof, which Lionel corrected to the proper slope. SC and a couple of others resumed production after the war, but HHO won out. Kemtron made a brass kit for a GP-7 in the early 50's, and offered kits from the Lionel tooling for the cars.Schorr made F-3's similar to Varney's HO ones, but with the "Chicken wire" sides. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] General Questions....... > Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group. > > Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that > catagory......:-) > > I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers > > Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496: > > This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when > you > bought > the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not > assembled ), but > glue and paints along with decals....... > > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? > Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit > appears to be complete > but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still > has some of the solvent ( Oil ) > in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the > bottom. The red doesn't > appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a > silver unlabeled tube of what I am > guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat > to > see the plan sheet that came > with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen. > ( Old school draughtsman > knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen > was > in vogue, but it wasn't > too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen > were > frustrated artists.....:-) > > One other question if I may: > > Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today? > > Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide. > > Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton" > > _________________________________________________________________ > Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered > by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2000	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

The motor issue was a bit of the reason even after WW-II why OO was seeing some activity in the USA. For the HO modeller, you almost HAD to model the Pennsylvania RR, because the motors needed the belpair firbox to have room. "Eric LaNal" was actually Allan Rice, a pioneer in HO here in the US. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 00 gauge In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did). North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use 4mm to the foot. There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefour.org/). The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't have my notes beside me right now). A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8" electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors. Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late 1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for the 4mm scale. As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale. By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british-ho.com). Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale: 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm. His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many copies here and in Continental Europe later. Andy Emmerson.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2001	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......

I got carried away with the OO, forgot about the other question. Those transformers are always usable. At least for powering lights, switch machines, and the like. The better Lionel transformers, the 1033 and the bigger ones, can be used as good power supplies. They have variable transformers in their design-- basically the same as the "Variac" that MR used to promote before the dawn of electronic throttles. I just hang a bridge rectifier on the output and connect them to some of my fancier throttles--I have a couple of them powering my PBL Foreground Sound Systems, and more running my Aristo "Train Engineer" cabs for the garden railway. The 1033 puts out about 5.5 amps at 16 volts--will easily run two LGB Krokodil's or Bachmann Shays. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] General Questions....... > Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group. > > Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that > catagory......:-) > > I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers > > Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496: > > This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when > you > bought > the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not > assembled ), but > glue and paints along with decals....... > > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? > Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit > appears to be complete > but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still > has some of the solvent ( Oil ) > in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the > bottom. The red doesn't > appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a > silver unlabeled tube of what I am > guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat > to > see the plan sheet that came > with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen. > ( Old school draughtsman > knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen > was > in vogue, but it wasn't > too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen > were > frustrated artists.....:-) > > One other question if I may: > > Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today? > > Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide. > > Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton" > > _________________________________________________________________ > Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered > by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2002	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Probably not. I knind of blew my Christmas bonus on eBay already. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 2:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola > That's interesting. Wish there was someone who kept track of the box > style, numbers, contents and changes Mantua made. I may bid on those > myself cept I have to much now. Let me know if you go for it or not. > Bill > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >> >> The same seller has some original Mantua tank cars with tank wrapper > too. >> Those I'm almost tempted to bid. >> >> Don >> >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2003	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Mine appears to a metallic finished paper (foil) laminated to metal. It FEELS like plastic, but it's not. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola > I don't think so. Looks plastic to me. I have both. I believe the > all metal with paper sides was a #C-700. The #310 was plastic. Not > 100% sure. > > Bill > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote: >> >> I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides. >> http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg >> Larry >> http://www.hoseeker.net/ >> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2004	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

The Mantua coupler always had the truned brass pin to raise the hook to uncouple. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:18 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola Dave,   The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..   The car itself is intriguing.. .and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.   As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.   Sincerely,   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)     Dave Slater <daslater@sasktel. net> wrote: Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG> Dave S. --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox, and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT have be an old Mantua. Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today http://cgi.ebay. com/Vintage- Mantua-TP- Texas-Pacific- Gondola-Car- in- Box_W0QQitemZ130065 468308 I think the mystery's solved. Don don.dellmann@ ... http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2005	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: The "Camelot" of OO...

I think he is gone--I have bought some of his equipment and bid on others on eBay. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] The "Camelot" of OO... Dear Loren,   The OO is British (I think you know that) and is slightly larger than HO in scale dimensions. The greatest OO layout I ever saw was almost forty years ago in a suburb of Philadelphia, Pa., built by a then retired gentleman named (if I recall right) Ed Costello. It was featured on the cover of an issue of Railroad Model Craftsman in the later 1970's, not too long before or just after the 1977 NMRA national convention (here in Denver) elevated him to the ranks of the master craftsmen. Well he deserved that.   His "Saint Anne" railroad (named for his wife) was a marvel in many ways. He actually machined his own scale rail...beside hand-laying it. He built all of his own locomotives, including some second or third generation diesels (he was not just steam.)  He had operating block operations that controlled his trains over the same track way ahead of modern day systems...it looked like the thing ran itself...and not a computer in sight in his place. For a change of pace, he dimmed the attic lights and the scene became night with properly illuminated towns and individual structures along the rights-of-way. I'd put it up against any DCC operation today (and I'm not DCC.)  It was, in its time, the magnificent marriage of existing technology and art, having been by 1968 (when I was first there) 35+ years into its construction (what layout is ever finished?)   The one gentleman is right. The OO modelers here are gone-as I'm sure Ed is. I do not know about any others of that scale, but what I saw would have been worthy of the Smithsonian after his death. I fear it has vanished like the ancient cities and temples along the Nile, a tribute to a magnificence that once was.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)        Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote: Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group. Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that catagory.... ..:-) I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496: This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you bought the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not assembled ), but glue and paints along with decals...... . My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit appears to be complete but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still has some of the solvent ( Oil ) in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the bottom. The red doesn't appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a silver unlabeled tube of what I am guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat to see the plan sheet that came with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen. ( Old school draughtsman knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen was in vogue, but it wasn't too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen were frustrated artists..... :-) One other question if I may: Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today? Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide. Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton" ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Type your favorite song.  Get a customized station.  Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio. msn.com/? icid=T002MSN03A0 7001 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2006	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......

No--17/64" and 7m scales were NOT "Q".  "Q" was promoted by Minton Cronkite and others as a correction of the track gauge for 1/4" scale.  "Q" stands for "Quarter inch".  The 17/64" scale sought to correct the error by keeping the 1 1/4" track but making the models larger.   Q kept the fairly coarse (by today's standards) wheel profile that O used, while nearly correcting the track gauge error.  In recent years the movement has kept alive through the "!/4 AAR" and now "Proto:48" modelers.   gj     ----- Original Message ----- From: DLeistikow@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: General Questions....... Loren, Dave and list: For evaluation and precise measurement, OO scale is 4.0 mm to the foot whereas, HO scale is 3.5 mm to the foot. Negligeable difference but, definitely and noticeably larger. HO designation was and is, half O scale however, 7 mm is not the same as 1/4" to the foot. 7 mm is, 17/64" scale, sometimes refered to as Q scale. To the discerning eye, Q scale is more desireable as that matches the track gauge commonly used with O scale model railroads. Confused? Who knows why the O scale track gauge is not exact to 1/4" scale, I don't. FWIW.... Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2007	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

I think Linn's drawing goes much further back than the fifties---Linn was another of the hobby's "notables" I have been privileged to have known.  I recall a conversation that included a bit about that loco drawing.  He seemed to like including little things like that.  I had commented about articles by a kid named "Westcott" in the earliest issues of MR--he said that Al Kalmbach made him such an offer that he dropped out of college to work for MR.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola Errors from copying models are nothing new.  The same way with plans.  One of the most famous ones was back in the late '50's Lynn Wescott drew a plan for MODEL RAILROADER of a Vulcan 0-4-2-t saddle tanker.  As a lark, he included on the plan the herald for his own fictional "Northwest" railway.   A couple years later, Athearn brought out their "Li'l monster" 0-4-2-t Vulcan, and sure enough, there was the "NW" herald proudly emblazoned on the tank.  What's even funnier, a year or so later GEM imported a BRASS version, and it too had the "Northwest" herald.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola Dave,   The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..   The car itself is intriguing.. .and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.   As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.   Sincerely,   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2008	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

very good illustration.  Are you operating the OO cars?  the Kadee coupler would give that impression. ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: VINTAGE H-0 Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:30 AM Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2009	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......

part of the HO/OO confusion comes from the British, who build to 4mm scale but operate it on HO (16.5mm gauge) track.   As to the transformers--the typical Lioinel transformer puts out 16 volts AC.  Watts divided by Volts = Amps, if I recall correctly, so the 80-watt 1033 transformer puts out 5.5 amps at 16 volts. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bitleris To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:36 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] General Questions....... Hi, I think some of the other folks can give you a better answer on the details of oo scale. I do know it is NOT the same as HO. The oo scale is a bit bigger than HO, but uses the same track gauge. I think you can probably run your oo cars with the HO, but they will look a bit out of scale. As far as the transformers, I never throw away old transformers. Some of the more powerful Lionel transformers might be usable as power supplies for DCC controllers. Also, don't forget the old transformers may be used to power light, switch machines, animation, and sound modules. Mostly in order to use them you will need to know the voltage and current rating capablilities. An inexpensive Radio Shack, Home Depot, or Lowes multimeter would be very useful for these applications. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [vintageHO] General Questions... .... Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:41:34 -0800 Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group. Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that catagory.... ..:-) I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496: This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you bought the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not assembled ), but glue and paints along with decals...... . My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today? Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit appears to be complete but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still has some of the solvent ( Oil ) in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the bottom. The red doesn't appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a silver unlabeled tube of what I am guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat to see the plan sheet that came with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen. ( Old school draughtsman knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen was in vogue, but it wasn't too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen were frustrated artists..... :-) One other question if I may: Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today? Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide. Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton" ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio. msn.com/? icid=T002MSN03A0 7001 Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ >From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has it all. http://tv.msn. com/tv/globes200 7/?icid=nctaglin e1

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2010	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola

The Japanese coupler is a mirror-image of the Baker and will not operate reliably with them,  looking down on them the loops are like "b" and "d"    The late Allan Fenton, who saved the original John Allen (and Bill Corsa's) Timesaver layouts and brought them to PCR and NMRA conventions for many years, used the Baker couplers on the contest.  He tried the Japanese couplers and found that they would not work with the Bakers. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] couplers, was Mystery gondola > The Triang as I recall (at least the ones I saw) had a much wider loop > that was fixed directly to the frame. Perfectly correct. It still is. Bachmann 4mm scale products for the British market have a slightly narrower version of the Triang (now Hornby) coupler that looks fairly similar to the old (German) Fleischmann coupler. Old timer of course recognise all of these as copies of the old Baker couplers used in the USA and still produced in Japan. QUESTION: Does anyone know who 'Baker' was and which makes first used Baker couplers? For those who may be puzzled, the Hornby of today is not the Hornby of old. Hornby Dublo trains (16.5mm gauge, 4mm scale) were introduced in 1938 (http://www.hrca. net/hornby_ dublo_history. html) and in those days used a coupler not dissimilar to the Mantua loop. In 1947 they adopted the Peco 'Simplex' coupling. Around the same time British Trix trains changed to the same Simplex coupler from the pre-war Trix coupler. In 1964 Hornby Dublo was taken over by Triang, who then used the Hornby name (which had a longer history) for the combined product range. Andy Emmerson.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2011	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola

Whit Towers also used Baker Couplers. ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] couplers, was Mystery gondola ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@ ntlworld. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] couplers, was Mystery gondola >> The Triang as I recall (at least the ones I saw) had a much wider loop >> that was fixed directly to the frame. > > Perfectly correct. It still is. Bachmann 4mm scale products for the > British > market have a slightly narrower version of the Triang (now Hornby) coupler > that looks fairly similar to the old (German) Fleischmann coupler. Old > timer > of course recognise all of these as copies of the old Baker couplers used > in > the USA and still produced in Japan. > > QUESTION: Does anyone know who 'Baker' was and which makes first used > Baker > couplers? I believe the company was "Baker Engineering" although I may be wrong. I don't think any manufacturer included them in kits, but the most famous user was of of course the late John Allen, who used Baker couplers exclusively on the Gorre & Daphetid right up to the end. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2012	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

To me--OO has just that slight extra bulk that makes it look interesting. I plan to operate some of my OO collection on the On3 layout when I get that far--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON And another one!   Andy Emmerson.     ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: VINTAGE H-0 Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2013	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Not in the 1954 era kits I have.   John Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: The Mantua coupler always had the truned brass pin to raise the hook to uncouple. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:18 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola Dave,   The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..   The car itself is intriguing.. .and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.   As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.   Sincerely,   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)     Dave Slater <daslater@sasktel. net> wrote: Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG> Dave S. --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox, and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT have be an old Mantua. Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today http://cgi.ebay. com/Vintage- Mantua-TP- Texas-Pacific- Gondola-Car- in- Box_W0QQitemZ130065 468308 I think the mystery's solved. Don don.dellmann@ ... http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2014	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

I think that the reason we have 1 1/4" gauge for O is that that was a commonly produced tow train gauge.  And, since many modelers were not machinists, they used what wheels and mechanisms they couild find.  1 1/4" gauge.  Since scale rulers were also not well available, working to an easily-used scale was handy.  So we wound up with what some of us refer to as "Ob5", somewhat poking fun at oiur gauge error. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge Wanna know why there is a NMRA? I seem seeing several instances where "HO" scale was referred to as 1/8"/ft. I've also seen statements saying "HO" stood for "half-O" (I'm talking 40's - early 50's here). It all seems to go back to the British using the metric system and us Americans using our sytems of...whatever it's called. I can't recall a name for it, but then I can't recall where I set my coffee down just as I began to type this. It's my CRS (can't remember s**t) kicking up again. In Merry Olde England and probably the rest of Europe, "O" scale was (is?) 7 mm scale so therefore, "HO" at 3.5 mm scale was "half O". But we imported certain standards from England, including the "O" scale track gauge and the 3.5 mm scale for "HO". Of course, we revolutionaries used 1/4"/ft scale (.635 mm) for everything "O" scale EXCEPT the track. The 17/64"/ft scale was much closer to the track scale and so a certain group of "O" scalers, including some manufacturers, built to that standard. When "HO" started overhere, some modelers, apparently wanting to use our fractional sysytem of measurement instead of the metric system, built 1/8" "HO" scale. Of course they used the 16.5 mm track so they were basically running on 5 ft gauge track just like their "O" scale brothern. Thankfully, the was little of the 1/8" "HO" scale. By the time "HO" gained much of a following, the NMRA had been established. I believe the hobby owes much of it's growth to the NMRA and the standards they established. Yeah, I know, they used the 1.25" track gauge as the "O" scale standard when it should of been 1.177". But "O" scale was already quite well established in 1935 and that was the most common scale/gauge in use. And their purpose was not to set standards that were exact-to-scale (who but a very few could get what is essentially Proto 48 to run in those days) but rather come up with workable standards that would be used on an industry-wide basis. "HO" was still very much in it's formative stages and they were able to set the standards to 3.5 mm scale. I would much rather model in "HO" here rather then "HO" or "OO" or dublo or what the h*#l scale(s) they have to deal with accross the pond there matey! I mean I really like much of the british steam but if I come accross a British prototype model locomotive for sale I can't figure out if it runs on "HO" track and if so is it "HO" or "OO" in scale..... John Hgen --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > > Depends. > Like running "0" on 1.25" track. > Should be what, 1.130" or so? > The dublo stuff coming out now (think "Thomas") runs on half-zero > track. > I read a dissertation once on North Amaerican 00 VS Brit Dublo, > All the stuff here ran on half-zero track, if I recall, Lionel, > ScaleCraft, all of them. > Since this one was ScaleCraft (US Made), I didn't think a discussion > of Euro gauge differences was part of it. > Maybe so. > > BTW, in my 1941 ScaleCraft catalog, they list a C&NW 4-8-4, a 4-6- 4, > a 4-6-4T, an 0-6-0, gas-electrics, heavyweight passenger cars, > reefers, box, stock,tank, flat, hopper and caboose. > > Just to ask, it's a K-1496 Reefer kit. > What suffix? > A was Fruit Grower's Express, B was C&NW, C was MDT, D was Wilson, > and E was Pluto. > To give an idea of size as compared to half-zero, dimensions from > the catalog are, length over end sills 6-5/8", Extreme width1- 9/16", > Coupler Height 15/32" (compare to half-zero nmra standards... .), and > height from railhead to top of roofwalk, 2-3/16". > > Also, the 1937 catalog mentions the curtain going up on the new "00" > line.... > > > > > > In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point > about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did). > > > > North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use > 4mm to the foot. > > > > There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm > finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefou r.org/). > > > > The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, > when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or > 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a > trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't > have my notes beside me right now). > > > > A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry > Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for > electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North > American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and > proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8" > electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors. > > > > Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own > mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late > 1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge > horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive > bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for > the 4mm scale. > > > > As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later > in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico > magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors > possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more > room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the > problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale. > > > > By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all > commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We > still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british- > ho.com). > > > > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale: > > > > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout > > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth > > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm. > > > > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a > few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that > made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler > was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many > copies here and in Continental Europe later. > > > > Andy Emmerson. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2015	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

No, Dave--the US OO runs on 3/4" or 19mm track. Got a bunch of it here.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:32 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge Depends. Like running "0" on 1.25" track. Should be what, 1.130" or so? The dublo stuff coming out now (think "Thomas") runs on half-zero track. I read a dissertation once on North Amaerican 00 VS Brit Dublo, All the stuff here ran on half-zero track, if I recall, Lionel, ScaleCraft, all of them. Since this one was ScaleCraft (US Made), I didn't think a discussion of Euro gauge differences was part of it. Maybe so. BTW, in my 1941 ScaleCraft catalog, they list a C&NW 4-8-4, a 4-6-4, a 4-6-4T, an 0-6-0, gas-electrics, heavyweight passenger cars, reefers, box, stock,tank, flat, hopper and caboose. Just to ask, it's a K-1496 Reefer kit. What suffix? A was Fruit Grower's Express, B was C&NW, C was MDT, D was Wilson, and E was Pluto. To give an idea of size as compared to half-zero, dimensions from the catalog are, length over end sills 6-5/8", Extreme width1-9/16" , Coupler Height 15/32" (compare to half-zero nmra standards... .), and height from railhead to top of roofwalk, 2-3/16". Also, the 1937 catalog mentions the curtain going up on the new "00" line.... > > In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did). > > North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use 4mm to the foot. > > There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefou r.org/). > > The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't have my notes beside me right now). > > A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8" electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors. > > Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late 1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for the 4mm scale. > > As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale. > > By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british- ho.com). > > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale: > > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm. > > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many copies here and in Continental Europe later. > > Andy Emmerson. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2016	From: Glenn	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

they screwed in, and did fall out-- ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola Not in the 1954 era kits I have.   John Glenn <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: The Mantua coupler always had the truned brass pin to raise the hook to uncouple. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:18 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola Dave,   The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..   The car itself is intriguing.. .and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.   As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.   Sincerely,   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)     Dave Slater <daslater@sasktel. net> wrote: Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG> Dave S. --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox, and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT have be an old Mantua. Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today http://cgi.ebay. com/Vintage- Mantua-TP- Texas-Pacific- Gondola-Car- in- Box_W0QQitemZ130065 468308 I think the mystery's solved. Don don.dellmann@ ... http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2017	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

I recall Hal Carstens, the former publisher of Railroad Model Crafstman, refer to 1/8" to the foot as E scale. Never no mention of a track gauge. Roger Aultman John Hagen wrote: > Wanna know why there is a NMRA? I seem seeing several instances > where "HO" scale was referred to as 1/8"/ft. -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2018	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Don I meant the one on Ebay looks to be plastic Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Mine appears to a metallic finished paper (foil) laminated to metal. It > FEELS like plastic, but it's not. > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "takefive247" <takefive@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola > > > > I don't think so. Looks plastic to me. I have both. I believe the > > all metal with paper sides was a #C-700. The #310 was plastic. Not > > 100% sure. > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@> wrote: > >> > >> I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides. > >> http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg > >> Larry > >> http://www.hoseeker.net/ > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2019	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

Attachments : Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains are made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are built to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. Same principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling stock. The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining factor of what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer the differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even though they perform on the same track gauge. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2020	From: takefive247	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Glenn, That's what I thought. I've been trying to figure it out for awhile now. Do you know what years Mantua used that box? For that matter, any of the years they changed boxes? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > > The one on eBay is hard to tell--its box is too new for that type car, as I recall them. Never encountered a kit in other than the medium blue box. There ws a transition period when they went to plastic bodies with the die-cast frame and had the Mantua couplers mounted to the trucks.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2021	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

No operation at this point, have a Scale Craft 4-6-0 that runs but needs much work. Roger Glenn wrote: > very good illustration. Are you operating the OO cars? the Kadee > coupler would give that impression. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roger Aultman <mailto:raul@...> > To: VINTAGE H-0 <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:30 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON > > Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman > > -- > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm > <http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm> > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2022	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

Cannot give span, but that box style was in use in 1954-55. My first mantua (first ever HO) came in that style box when I was eight years old.   John takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote: Glenn, That's what I thought. I've been trying to figure it out for awhile now. Do you know what years Mantua used that box? For that matter, any of the years they changed boxes? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > > The one on eBay is hard to tell--its box is too new for that type car, as I recall them. Never encountered a kit in other than the medium blue box. There ws a transition period when they went to plastic bodies with the die-cast frame and had the Mantua couplers mounted to the trucks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2023	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

Had to fight to get back in. Yahoo drops connection for no reason and sometimes takes a bit to get logged in. Maybe the ones I have seen had either H0 trucks or wheelsets. They rolled on H0 track. Tempted many times to get the ScaleCraft 00 but I gotta draw a line somewhere. It is funny though, the folks who think HO means something different than the H0 it was originally. This link (one of many) http://www.marklin.com/about/timeline.html if you look at 1935, it tells you. Anybody old enough to remember that has to be close to 80. Funny. > No, Dave--the US OO runs on 3/4" or 19mm track. Got a bunch of it here. gj >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2024	From: Glenn	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since they both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar?  "Q" was the 1/4" scale trains running on 1 3/16"  (4'9" gauge) track.  Q was always 1/4".   Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British run theirs on what is basically HO track. US  ran on fairly close to correct gauge.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: DLeistikow@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains are made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are built to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. Same principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling stock. The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining factor of what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer the differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even though they perform on the same track gauge. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2025	From: Glenn	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

I have one of those--and a second one that someone tried to make an atlantic out of. Doesn't pull worth beans. ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON No operation at this point, have a Scale Craft 4-6-0 that runs but needs much work. Roger Glenn wrote: > very good illustration. Are you operating the OO cars? the Kadee > coupler would give that impression. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roger Aultman <mailto:raul@nconnect. net> > To: VINTAGE H-0 <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:30 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON > > Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman > > -- > http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm > <http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm> > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/ > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2026	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/scales.html "Q SCALE Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1' STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track) Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" " Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track, different scale. Proto 48 is diferent gauge. And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q" as 0 (17), I guess for 17/64ths: "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2" Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48), and now they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge. Go Figure. Dave > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since they both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4" scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always 1/4". > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British run theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to correct gauge. > > gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DLeistikow@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains are > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are built > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. Same > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling stock. > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining factor of > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer the > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even though they > perform on the same track gauge. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2027	From: Glenn	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola

not for sure.  I just associate that style with the plastic cars. My collection ends at that point. ----- Original Message ----- From: takefive247 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola Glenn, That's what I thought. I've been trying to figure it out for awhile now. Do you know what years Mantua used that box? For that matter, any of the years they changed boxes? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > > The one on eBay is hard to tell--its box is too new for that type car, as I recall them. Never encountered a kit in other than the medium blue box. There ws a transition period when they went to plastic bodies with the die-cast frame and had the Mantua couplers mounted to the trucks.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2028	From: Glenn	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

OK--so what was it that Minton Cronkite built? ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge http://www.spikesys .com/Modelrr/ scales.html "Q SCALE Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1' STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track) Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" " Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track, different scale. Proto 48 is diferent gauge. And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q" as 0 (17), I guess for 17/64ths: "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2" Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48), and now they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge. Go Figure. Dave > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since they both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4" scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always 1/4". > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British run theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to correct gauge. > > gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DLeistikow@. .. > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains are > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are built > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. Same > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling stock. > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining factor of > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer the > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even though they > perform on the same track gauge. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2029	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

I see references to "Q" and Cronkite, yet we always called it "Q" (and so did the nmra) long before there was a PROTO:48. I'll check. It is odd. He also modelled in 17/64ths, so maybe some nomenclature got crossed up? Dave > OK--so what was it that Minton Cronkite built? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:44 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/scales.html > "Q SCALE > Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1' > STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track) > Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm > Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" " > > Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track, > different scale. > Proto 48 is diferent gauge. > And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q" as 0 > (17), I guess for 17/64ths: > "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2" > > Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want > multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48), and now > they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge. > > Go Figure. > Dave > > > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since they > both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4" > scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always > 1/4". > > > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British run > theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to > correct gauge. > > > > gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: DLeistikow@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > > > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains > are > > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are > built > > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. > Same > > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling > stock. > > > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining > factor of > > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer > the > > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even > though they > > perform on the same track gauge. > > > > Don L. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2030	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

Okay, I checked. One old-timer I called said "Q" was the gauge, not the scale. Even though several "0" websites call Q as 1:45 and 17/64ths, that's the scale, not the gauge. The gauge was 1-3/16", which is NOT PROTO:48, but, if Minton had not pioneered what he did, PROTO:48 probably would never have gotten off the ground. "Q" scale seems to be what we always called 17/64ths, but that was scale of 1:45, not gauge. Confusing? You betcha. Early pioneers of PROTO:48 called it AAR1/4 or something like that. I have 17/64ths and "0" stuff, in fact, ScaleCraft did both (even if not advertised). Their SP P-13? Pacific was NYC Hudson drivers and chassis with K-4 geartrain, and the boiler was "adjusted" to look right to the drivers. Ran one once, worried if it was going to make it through the tunnels. The passenger cars are 17/64ths, you can tell in a string of Walthers cars. I had a Mi-Loco 17/64ths NYC Hudson at one time, put it next to my ScaleCraft Hudson and overall about 3/8" longer, if I recall. So, there were two schools of terminology it seems. Scale and gauge. But for totally different animals. > > I see references to "Q" and Cronkite, yet we always called it "Q" > (and so did the nmra) long before there was a PROTO:48. > I'll check. > It is odd. He also modelled in 17/64ths, so maybe some nomenclature > got crossed up? > Dave > > > > OK--so what was it that Minton Cronkite built? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:44 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > > > > http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/scales.html > > "Q SCALE > > Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1' > > STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track) > > Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm > > Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" " > > > > Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track, > > different scale. > > Proto 48 is diferent gauge. > > And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q" as > 0 > > (17), I guess for 17/64ths: > > "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2" > > > > Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want > > multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48), and > now > > they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge. > > > > Go Figure. > > Dave > > > > > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since > they > > both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4" > > scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always > > 1/4". > > > > > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British > run > > theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to > > correct gauge. > > > > > > gj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: DLeistikow@ > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM > > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > > > > > > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model > trains > > are > > > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., > are > > built > > > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. > > Same > > > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling > > stock. > > > > > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining > > factor of > > > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer > > the > > > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even > > though they > > > perform on the same track gauge. > > > > > > Don L. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2031	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

Attachments : Sorry, Glenn: You're reversing the two scales O and Q; and they both use the same track gauge. Believe what you want and I'll do the same. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2032	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

> >1g. Re: 00 gauge > Posted by: "DLeistikow@..." DLeistikow@... dleistikowwebtvnet > Date: Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:37 pm ((PST)) > >Sorry, Glenn: You're reversing the two scales O and Q; and they both >use the same track gauge. Believe what you want and I'll do the same. I have a book "Model Trains - Railroads in the Making" originally published in 1969 in Italian with English text printed in 1972. On its pages "Gauges and Scales", it covers #1 through "X". As for "Q" it gives a gauge of 1 3/16 ins and states "Also referred to as a gauge of 1.188 in, this American gauge uses a scale of 1/4 in to the foot. It has been replaced by O." Under "O' it has five entries: First: 0 (subscript 17) with a gauge of 1 1/4" "Using English instead of metric measurements, this rarely used gauge uses a scale of 17/64 inches to the foot." Second: O, gauge of 32mm, "Appearing before WWI, the British O gauge is still popular. The scale is 7mm to the foot." Third: O, 1 1/4 in gauge plus "In America a scale if 1/4" to the foot is normal an d a ratio of 1:48 as opposed to the 1:45.2 ratio of O (subscript 17)" Fourth: O, 1 1/8 inch gauge, "A number of Continental models have appeared using this gauge, built to a scale of 2cm to 1 meter. And finally, OF, 32 mm gauge, " Also with a scale of 7mm to the foot, this gauge uses much finer measurements; the rail height, for example, is only half that of O, its ratio is 1:43.5 Hope this ads to the confusion.:) Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2033	From: oljoeoh	Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

I believe the "great American Railways" series that Hallmark did was OO scale. I have all of them and display several of them in the nice looking diaplay cases they came with. I particularly like the Hudson because it looks like the Lionel OO Hudson I had as a kid. I loved to run that train but was very frustrated by the knuckle couplers that Lionel used - non-functional and prone to uncouple if the track was not completely flat on the floor. I also remember that it didn't run very well. Sounded like PW locos that needed the brush plate replaced. Dad, who couldn't fix anything, finally gave up trying to get it fixed and traded it in on an 027 set in the 50's. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since they both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4" scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always 1/4". > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British run theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to correct gauge. > > gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DLeistikow@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains are > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are built > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. Same > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling stock. > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining factor of > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer the > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even though they > perform on the same track gauge. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2034	From: Glenn	Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

From what I recall Cronkite modeled 1:48 and corrected the gauge to 1 3/16.  One of the old-timers of O Scale that I knew weell (besides John Armstrong)  is Jerry White--long-time custom builder in many scales. We got into this subject many years ago concerningsome of the models on the West Bay Club layout.   I'll have to look in some of my older stuff for the references. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge I see references to "Q" and Cronkite, yet we always called it "Q" (and so did the nmra) long before there was a PROTO:48. I'll check. It is odd. He also modelled in 17/64ths, so maybe some nomenclature got crossed up? Dave > OK--so what was it that Minton Cronkite built? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:44 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > http://www.spikesys .com/Modelrr/ scales.html > "Q SCALE > Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1' > STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track) > Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm > Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" " > > Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track, > different scale. > Proto 48 is diferent gauge. > And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q" as 0 > (17), I guess for 17/64ths: > "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2" > > Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want > multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48), and now > they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge. > > Go Figure. > Dave > > > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since they > both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4" > scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always > 1/4". > > > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British run > theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to > correct gauge. > > > > gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: DLeistikow@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > > > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains > are > > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are > built > > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. > Same > > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling > stock. > > > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining > factor of > > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer > the > > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even > though they > > perform on the same track gauge. > > > > Don L. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2035	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

Attachments : Glenn and list: I would concur that Q scale (17/64") would operate on a scale track gauge of 1- 1/4". O scale (1/4") also operates on the same track gauge of 1- 1/4". The calculation that the correct track gauge for 'O scale' would be 1- 3 1/16", is entirely correct but, was never manufactured nor used as such. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2036	From: Glenn	Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

"Q" with 17/64 and others does not make sense, as "Q" fits with "Quarter".   Lobaugh also made both O Scales--I have a pre-was 0-6-0 switcher that is definitely 17/64, and a friend has one that his dad built in the late 40's that is distinctly smaller.  Likewise, I have the Thomas (17/64) and International (1/4") B&O 0-4-0's.  Where the comparison really shopwed the difference was in a passenger train. I had a 7-car string of Walthers and All Nation heavyweights--got a Mini-Scale Pullman--it was way bigger than the rest. Swapped it to a friend who had the matching Hudson.    Getting this back toward OO--I was in Lowes in Medford today--they had a bunch of table lamops--one had a "Lionel" 700E Hudson on the base--it looks like about the same size as those Lionmel OO hudsons I have, track measured close to 3/4". Loco is plastic, and I had other plans for the $50 the l;amt sells for--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge Okay, I checked. One old-timer I called said "Q" was the gauge, not the scale. Even though several "0" websites call Q as 1:45 and 17/64ths, that's the scale, not the gauge. The gauge was 1-3/16", which is NOT PROTO:48, but, if Minton had not pioneered what he did, PROTO:48 probably would never have gotten off the ground. "Q" scale seems to be what we always called 17/64ths, but that was scale of 1:45, not gauge. Confusing? You betcha. Early pioneers of PROTO:48 called it AAR1/4 or something like that. I have 17/64ths and "0" stuff, in fact, ScaleCraft did both (even if not advertised). Their SP P-13? Pacific was NYC Hudson drivers and chassis with K-4 geartrain, and the boiler was "adjusted" to look right to the drivers. Ran one once, worried if it was going to make it through the tunnels. The passenger cars are 17/64ths, you can tell in a string of Walthers cars. I had a Mi-Loco 17/64ths NYC Hudson at one time, put it next to my ScaleCraft Hudson and overall about 3/8" longer, if I recall. So, there were two schools of terminology it seems. Scale and gauge. But for totally different animals. > > I see references to "Q" and Cronkite, yet we always called it "Q" > (and so did the nmra) long before there was a PROTO:48. > I'll check. > It is odd. He also modelled in 17/64ths, so maybe some nomenclature > got crossed up? > Dave > > > > OK--so what was it that Minton Cronkite built? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:44 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > > > > http://www.spikesys .com/Modelrr/ scales.html > > "Q SCALE > > Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1' > > STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track) > > Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm > > Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" " > > > > Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track, > > different scale. > > Proto 48 is diferent gauge. > > And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q" as > 0 > > (17), I guess for 17/64ths: > > "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2" > > > > Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want > > multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48), and > now > > they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge. > > > > Go Figure. > > Dave > > > > > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since > they > > both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4" > > scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always > > 1/4". > > > > > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British > run > > theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to > > correct gauge. > > > > > > gj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: DLeistikow@ > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM > > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge > > > > > > > > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model > trains > > are > > > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., > are > > built > > > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. > > Same > > > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling > > stock. > > > > > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining > > factor of > > > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer > > the > > > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even > > though they > > > perform on the same track gauge. > > > > > > Don L. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2037	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

> It is funny though, the folks who think HO means something different than > the H0 it was originally. This link (one of many) http://www.marklin.com/about/timeline.html if you look at 1935, it tells you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HO_scale tells the same story in the second sentence. Germans call the Halb-Null and if you look at German Fleabay or any German retailer's website, the gauge is shown as H0 rather than HO. Unfortunately the History section of the Wikipedia page mentioned has many errors (his dates are up the creek). Andy Emmerson.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2038	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge

> Okay, I checked. One old-timer I called said "Q" was the gauge, not the > scale. I checked too. According to the book 'Choice of Scale and Gauges' by Lin Westcott (and I'm not going to argue with him!)... " 1 3/16 inches. This gauge, called Q gauge, is more accurate but very little used. It has an advantage shared by no other new gauge that practically all O gauge 1/4" scale parts may be used without developing new patterns, dies, jigs, etc. " In the table at the back of the book he lists Q gauge as 1.17" with a scale of 1/4" to the foot or 1:48. Minton Cronkhite gets a name check for the reflected light system of illuminating signals from below the baseboard with a tinfoil mirror in the signal head. The book was published in 1936 by the way. Andy Emmerson.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2039	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

I have to say http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/scales.html ...is a joke. It is just riddled with factual errors and spelling mistakes in manufacturers' names. Not worth wasting time on, I'm sorry to say. 'Grumpy old man'.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2040	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge

I shall believe Linn Westcott on this!   AE   ----- Original Message ----- From: DLeistikow@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge Sorry, Glenn: You're reversing the two scales O and Q; and they both use the same track gauge. Believe what you want and I'll do the same. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2041	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge

All the history has been interesting, but, the topic of this group is vintage >HO<.   Thanks   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Q gauge I shall believe Linn Westcott on this!   AE   ----- Original Message ----- From: DLeistikow@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge Sorry, Glenn: You're reversing the two scales O and Q; and they both use the same track gauge. Believe what you want and I'll do the same. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2042	From: Paul	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Looking for parts

I am looking for a side sill for a Thomas Industries tank kit. I don't know how I did it, but I broke one and the project is on hold until I can locate one. If any members have an incomplete kit, or loose parts, please contact me via email. Thank you.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2043	From: Glenn	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge

that's the right time-frame.  Cronkhite was responsible for a number of large display layouts at the SF and NY worlds fairs, and the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. Those were probably the major examples of Q Gauge. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Q gauge > Okay, I checked. One old-timer I called said "Q" was the gauge, not the > scale. I checked too. According to the book 'Choice of Scale and Gauges' by Lin Westcott (and I'm not going to argue with him!)... " 1 3/16 inches. This gauge, called Q gauge, is more accurate but very little used. It has an advantage shared by no other new gauge that practically all O gauge 1/4" scale parts may be used without developing new patterns, dies, jigs, etc. " In the table at the back of the book he lists Q gauge as 1.17" with a scale of 1/4" to the foot or 1:48. Minton Cronkhite gets a name check for the reflected light system of illuminating signals from below the baseboard with a tinfoil mirror in the signal head. The book was published in 1936 by the way. Andy Emmerson.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2044	From: Glenn	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge

You said it!  quite a jumbled mess.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge I have to say http://www.spikesys .com/Modelrr/ scales.html ...is a joke. It is just riddled with factual errors and spelling mistakes in manufacturers' names. Not worth wasting time on, I'm sorry to say. 'Grumpy old man'.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2045	From: Glenn	Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge

OK---but where would HO be without "O" to be half of?  :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Q gauge All the history has been interesting, but, the topic of this group is vintage >HO<.   Thanks   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Q gauge I shall believe Linn Westcott on this!   AE   ----- Original Message ----- From: DLeistikow@webtv. net To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge Sorry, Glenn: You're reversing the two scales O and Q; and they both use the same track gauge. Believe what you want and I'll do the same. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2046	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2007
Subject: Newest additions

Attachments : Two more vintage pieces running, 1 again, 1 for the first time in her 50 year life. The Deep Rock tank is an original late 40's Mantua, still running on her original trucks, only needed cleaning and Kadees installed, the NH Box was an unbuilt Binkley kit I found on eBay a couple weeks ago. The Mantua tank actually compares favorably with my Tichy/Gould USRA tank that I just happened to letter in the same scheme. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2047	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/11/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions

Hey Don, Thanks for the photo's. Great looking cars both. I have a question, and I am not trying to be a smart a**..... Is it an optical illusion or is the Deep Rock Dome actually tilted to the left in the the picture? Was this the way these cars were actually built? If not, I apologize up front. I wasn't trying to be critical, just curious. Loren _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song.� Get a customized station.� Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2048	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/12/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions

----- Original Message ----- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:33 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Newest additions > Hey Don, > > Thanks for the photo's. Great looking cars both. > > I have a question, and I am not trying to be a smart a**..... > > Is it an optical illusion or is the Deep Rock Dome actually tilted > to the left in the the picture? Was this the way these cars were > actually built? If not, I apologize up front. I wasn't trying to be > critical, just curious. > > Loren Ever since I got a new computer, I've been waiting for a friend to salvage Adobe Photo Deluxe off my old hard drive since they don't make it anymore. Un the meantime I've been using Irfanview, and it seems every time I crop and resize a photo so I can post it, it becomes slightly distorted. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2049	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/12/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions

Hi Don, Try these free programs and see if one of them works for you..... http://www.freebyte.com/graphicprograms/#imageconverters There's always the freeware PhotoShop clone, GIMP... http://www.gimp.org/windows/ Or this freebie .. http://biphome.spray.se/baxtrom/imageenhance.htm Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 12, 2007, at 2:44 AM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" > >> Hey Don, >> >> Thanks for the photo's. Great looking cars both. >> >> I have a question, and I am not trying to be a smart a**..... >> >> Is it an optical illusion or is the Deep Rock Dome actually tilted >> to the left in the the picture? Was this the way these cars were >> actually built? If not, I apologize up front. I wasn't trying to be >> critical, just curious. >> >> Loren > > Ever since I got a new computer, I've been waiting for a friend to > salvage > Adobe Photo Deluxe off my old hard drive since they don't make it > anymore. > Un the meantime I've been using Irfanview, and it seems every time > I crop > and resize a photo so I can post it, it becomes slightly distorted.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2050	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/12/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions

Seems to me I tried gimp. I really want photo deluxe back (I've got it on a CD now, but it's aprt of a system Brenda put together to give me a virtual hard drive to run my old programs that CP doesn't like, and she has to install it for me.) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Newest additions > Hi Don, > > Try these free programs and see if one of them works for you..... > > http://www.freebyte.com/graphicprograms/#imageconverters > > There's always the freeware PhotoShop clone, GIMP... > > http://www.gimp.org/windows/ > > Or this freebie .. > > http://biphome.spray.se/baxtrom/imageenhance.htm > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Jan 12, 2007, at 2:44 AM, Don Dellmann wrote: > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" >> >>> Hey Don, >>> >>> Thanks for the photo's. Great looking cars both. >>> >>> I have a question, and I am not trying to be a smart a**..... >>> >>> Is it an optical illusion or is the Deep Rock Dome actually tilted >>> to the left in the the picture? Was this the way these cars were >>> actually built? If not, I apologize up front. I wasn't trying to be >>> critical, just curious. >>> >>> Loren >> >> Ever since I got a new computer, I've been waiting for a friend to >> salvage >> Adobe Photo Deluxe off my old hard drive since they don't make it >> anymore. >> Un the meantime I've been using Irfanview, and it seems every time >> I crop >> and resize a photo so I can post it, it becomes slightly distorted. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2051	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/14/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest

Enter our new cover photo contest now. Take your favorite picture featuring Vintage HO equipment (pre-1965 or so), and upload it to the "a contest" photo album before January 31, 2006. Photos may feature locomotives, rolling stock, structures or scenery, but must be predominantly "vintage". Please only one entry per member. For the month of February, we will have an open poll for all the members to vote on the photo of their choice. The winner will be the new cover photo for at least till mid summer.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2052	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Christmas presents.

Attachments : Well, my Christmas presents to myself came today. Not all that vintage as far as the group is concerned, because it dates from the late 60's, early 70's, but I've wanted one of these puppies ever since Red Ball first imported them. To make it even nicer, the eBay seller I got it from has just joined our group! (Thanks Sean) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2053	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Belonging

Attachments : You know, looking at the message threads over the last month or so, I've been starting to feel like an outcast in my own group.     There was just something that everybody had, and everybody was talking about that I was just left out.   I was really feeling neglected.       Well NO MORE!   I FINALLY am a member of the group!  I finally belong!   As of 1:30 this afternoon when I went to the post office, I am now one of you, no longer an outcast!   I am now the PROUD owner of.................               A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN!  :-)   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2054	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...

Don.....   If it runs...I mean...if you restore it to running order...do you issue yourself a certificate or do you have to commit hari-kari in Shinto style? I'm not sure of the rules here. I have a hunch that mere ownership is not enough...it is the first spiritual step toward enlightenment. I suspect obligatory chants must be made as two candles burn with incense at positions on either end of your acquisition. Prayers will be rendered and must. You have begun the journey, Grasshopper!  Live the journey that has only begun.   John Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: You know, looking at the message threads over the last month or so, I've been starting to feel like an outcast in my own group.     There was just something that everybody had, and everybody was talking about that I was just left out.   I was really feeling neglected.       Well NO MORE!   I FINALLY am a member of the group!  I finally belong!   As of 1:30 this afternoon when I went to the post office, I am now one of you, no longer an outcast!   I am now the PROUD owner of.......... .......               A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN!  :-)   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY         Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2055	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.

Attachments : Hello Don, That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with your address on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!   As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course... Later! Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Well, my Christmas presents to myself came today. Not all that vintage as far as the group is concerned, because it dates from the late 60's, early 70's, but I've wanted one of these puppies ever since Red Ball first imported them. To make it even nicer, the eBay seller I got it from has just joined our group! (Thanks Sean) Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2056	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I am now the PROUD owner of................. > > A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-) > > Don > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen that fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit, in that eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew can tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2057	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...

>----- Original Message ----- >From: John Barlow >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:59 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Beyond Belonging... >Don..... >If it runs...I mean...if you restore it to running order...do you issue >yourself a certificate or do you have to commit hari-kari in Shinto style? >I'm not sure of the rules >here. I have a hunch that mere ownership is not >enough...it is the first spiritual step toward enlightenment. I suspect >obligatory chants must be made as two candles >burn with incense at >positions on either end of your acquisition. Prayers will be rendered and >must. You have begun the journey, Grasshopper! Live the journey >that has >only begun. >John (text bobbitted) I had no idea it was going to be such a religious experience. Perhaps we can start a cult? In all seriousness, it's not that far from running. Electrically, the motor spins, and the wheels/valve gear etc, while stiff, do move without any obvious binds, I suspect it's not much more than a gear misalignment inside (The motor drive worm doesn't engage the axle gear (and the shin bone isn't connected to the thigh bone?)\\ Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2058	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.

>----- Original Message ----- >From: sean naylor >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents. >Hello Don, >That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are >happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with >your address >on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the >factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy! >As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! >Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course... >Later! >Sean Gee, isn't that a coincidence <G>. I am pleased with the Erie. I do have to open it up, it sounds and acts like one of the couplings may be slipping a little on the shaft, but that's nothing a bit of locktite won't fix. It runs better than a lot of brass of that vintage did when new. The only thing I haven't quite decided yet is how to paint it. I'm not sure if I want to do it in my "Milwaukee Northern" or I'm thinking of coming up with an imaginary blue and silver scheme to pull my Varney streamliners. As far as the dockside, I've waited 50 years to get one! (Tell you what, I'll name you in my will). Yours looks interesting, except isn't that actually a Mantua Booster II? Or did Varney have a different body die in later years? (On The Varney the tanks extend flush with the boiler front. In the same box with the Varney is an earlier Mantua that's interesting. It's the exact same body shell as the little six, but only an 0-4-0, which makes it look sort of "tail heavy". BTW, welcome to the group. We've got a great bunch of people here, and sometimes the knowledge people share of these old pieces totally amazes me. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2059	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Attachments : ----- Original Message ----- From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> I am now the PROUD owner of................. >> >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-) >> >> Don >> > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen that > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit, in that > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew can > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like it's just shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the drive gear. Thank goodness for my 1948 catalog that shows me exactly which two screws to take out to open her up. (As far as vintage goes, what I can see of the motor etc. inside, it seems to match that 1948 drawing exactly, except for the aftermarket valve gear, which appears to be either Central Valley of Kemtron, was there a difference in them?) If you saw the lot of 18 vintage cars that came with her on eBay, it's an interesting mix. The three quad hoppers turned out to be wood, the Virginaian twin hopper is cardstock, I'm guessing the panel side hopper is Red Ball (it seems too thick to be the Varney which was described as "aluminum stampings, thin enough to cut easily with scissors" They appear to be relatively thin castings. The two reefers are early mantua, there's an Erie gondola identical to the T&P one I have that we were talking about last week, as well as another tank car like the one I just got, a couple Silver Streak box cars, two Mantua and one Ulrich flat, another embossed cardstock Comet auto car and an Ulrich compositegondola. What was frustrating was there's one original Mantua box car there, of all the different lettering schemes they made, wouldn't you know it's the same one as the only Mautua box already in my collection! I haven't decided yet if I should renumber it or trade it. Also, when I unpacked the box, there was a Varney cardstock Santa Fe style caboose and a Mantua 0-4-0-t (that I mentioned in another post) that weren't listed in the original auction! Watch for individual pictures I'll post as I get each peice back in operation. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2060	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)

P.S., Thanks again for the extra parts, it wasn't necessary, but I can use all of them except the winterization windows, another friend from the list here was over this evening, saw the bag and grabbed them so fast it'd make your head spin.  So, everything was greatly appreciated and will be used.   Don ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents. Hello Don, That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with your address on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!   As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course... Later! Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2061	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > wrote: > >> > >> I am now the PROUD owner of................. > >> > >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-) > >> > >> Don > >> > > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen that > > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit, in that > > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew can > > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken > > The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like it's just > shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the drive > gear. Don, I'm sure you've seen that there are four screws on the bottom side of that "Li'l Joe's" frame. First one foreward is the long screw that attaches the shell to the frame. The very next screw (just behind the drive gear) is the one that adjusts the mesh of the motor worm gear with the driver gear. Backing it out just a tad will mesh the worm with the gear, & lookout rear roundhouse wall! You can also check your valve gear with the pics on my album "1941 Varney 6V Dockside" (Central Valley, Varney #2641, or Bowser 3-217) to see which one it is. The CV kit's gear hanger fits between the boiler & the cylinder block, & is split there, so if you take the shell off hold a finger on it so everything stays together. I usually leave the long screw in the frame & thread a nut down to hold the two sides of the gear hanger together. Ya' got some cool vintage stuff! Wanna' have a "Dockside" drag sometime?! Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2062	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)

Hello Don, Glad to be of service... If you or your friend need any more... I have a couple hundred of the overland pieces I will never use... Never really counted them actually... Later! Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: P.S., Thanks again for the extra parts, it wasn't necessary, but I can use all of them except the winterization windows, another friend from the list here was over this evening, saw the bag and grabbed them so fast it'd make your head spin.  So, everything was greatly appreciated and will be used.   Don ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents. Hello Don, That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with your address on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!   As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course... Later! Sean   8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2063	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.

Hello Don, Sorry about the slipping.. I try to catch all those things before they go.... They all were a fine running bunch though... I decided to list today the last piece from that lot  ... an RDC 2.   I have noticed that it is an interesting bunch.. The religious experience was quite funny actually... Can we extent it beyond Varney though..... I have a couple hundred engines and I an sure I have many makes and models that do not run and need to be rizen from the dead... It has been a little longer than three days for some of them... so I am not quite sure what to do in their case... Later! Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: sean naylor >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents. >Hello Don, >That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are >happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with >your address >on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the >factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy! >As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! >Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course... >Later! >Sean Gee, isn't that a coincidence <G>. I am pleased with the Erie. I do have to open it up, it sounds and acts like one of the couplings may be slipping a little on the shaft, but that's nothing a bit of locktite won't fix. It runs better than a lot of brass of that vintage did when new. The only thing I haven't quite decided yet is how to paint it. I'm not sure if I want to do it in my "Milwaukee Northern" or I'm thinking of coming up with an imaginary blue and silver scheme to pull my Varney streamliners. As far as the dockside, I've waited 50 years to get one! (Tell you what, I'll name you in my will). Yours looks interesting, except isn't that actually a Mantua Booster II? Or did Varney have a different body die in later years? (On The Varney the tanks extend flush with the boiler front. In the same box with the Varney is an earlier Mantua that's interesting. It's the exact same body shell as the little six, but only an 0-4-0, which makes it look sort of "tail heavy". BTW, welcome to the group. We've got a great bunch of people here, and sometimes the knowledge people share of these old pieces totally amazes me. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2064	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)

ps.. Don, The pic I posted is a Varney... NOT a Mantua... Look closer at the cab... it is tge dead ringer for varney... The previous owner ground off part of the saddle tank.. I cleaned up the filing job and then detailed it ... Later...   pps.. Let me know if you ever want to trade that lil jo for a small stack of brass detail pieces... or anything else for that matter...   Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: P.S., Thanks again for the extra parts, it wasn't necessary, but I can use all of them except the winterization windows, another friend from the list here was over this evening, saw the bag and grabbed them so fast it'd make your head spin.  So, everything was greatly appreciated and will be used.   Don ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents. Hello Don, That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with your address on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!   As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course... Later! Sean   Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2065	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)

Yeah, Sean, thanks a bunch for those windows. The only Wisconsin railroad that mattered (Green Bay and Western) using the only diesels that mattered (ALCO’s) used them 3 pane winterization windows on the engineers side. Don showed me the detail parts packs and the windows were on top. He’s right, they were in my pocket in approx. 1.5 sec. (would have been faster but I’m getting old in my slow age).   Thanks again, Sean.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2066	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Attachments : Don, The Joes are one of my favorites.  We refurbish a lot of them. I have all of the parts for them here if you end up needing something.    I've attached a pic of one that we did a few months ago.  This little guy was a basket case when we started it.   Dan B.    ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging ----- Original Message ----- From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@verizon. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> > wrote: >> >> I am now the PROUD owner of.......... ....... >> >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-) >> >> Don >> > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen that > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit, in that > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew can > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like it's just shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the drive gear. Thank goodness for my 1948 catalog that shows me exactly which two screws to take out to open her up. (As far as vintage goes, what I can see of the motor etc. inside, it seems to match that 1948 drawing exactly, except for the aftermarket valve gear, which appears to be either Central Valley of Kemtron, was there a difference in them?) If you saw the lot of 18 vintage cars that came with her on eBay, it's an interesting mix. The three quad hoppers turned out to be wood, the Virginaian twin hopper is cardstock, I'm guessing the panel side hopper is Red Ball (it seems too thick to be the Varney which was described as "aluminum stampings, thin enough to cut easily with scissors" They appear to be relatively thin castings. The two reefers are early mantua, there's an Erie gondola identical to the T&P one I have that we were talking about last week, as well as another tank car like the one I just got, a couple Silver Streak box cars, two Mantua and one Ulrich flat, another embossed cardstock Comet auto car and an Ulrich compositegondola. What was frustrating was there's one original Mantua box car there, of all the different lettering schemes they made, wouldn't you know it's the same one as the only Mautua box already in my collection! I haven't decided yet if I should renumber it or trade it. Also, when I unpacked the box, there was a Varney cardstock Santa Fe style caboose and a Mantua 0-4-0-t (that I mentioned in another post) that weren't listed in the original auction! Watch for individual pictures I'll post as I get each peice back in operation. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoocom/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2067	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)

Need More? I have a bunch... I have been considering listing some iof my brass details... I know Overland does pretty well. I have pobably 1000 or more diesel detials I will never use... I purchased an entire collection of them from a brass builder/detailer of northern-western railroads a couple of years ago... I wanted the steam details but I could not pass up the price for them all!  Typical of me....I hate listing details, so I like to trade them... I was introduced to this group through a friend I have been trading with lately (and frequiently outbidding - until just this past week when he outbid me on the central valley valve gear kit - aka.. Tom Hare) - We managed to hammer out a trade deal so I will get it anyway... Let me know... I will never use the diesel details... I like steam... with some diesel... Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: Yeah, Sean, thanks a bunch for those windows. The only Wisconsin railroad that mattered (Green Bay and Western) using the only diesels that mattered (ALCO’s) used them 3 pane winterization windows on the engineers side. Don showed me the detail parts packs and the windows were on top. He’s right, they were in my pocket in approx. 1.5 sec. (would have been faster but I’m getting old in my slow age). Thanks again, Sean. John Hagen Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2068	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Attachments : ----- Original Message ----- From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging >> >> >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> I am now the PROUD owner of................. >> >> >> >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-) >> >> >> >> Don >> >> >> > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen > that >> > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit, > in that >> > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew > can >> > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken >> >> The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like > it's just >> shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the > drive >> gear. > > Don, I'm sure you've seen that there are four screws on the bottom > side of that "Li'l Joe's" frame. First one foreward is the long screw > that attaches the shell to the frame. The very next screw (just > behind the drive gear) is the one that adjusts the mesh of the motor > worm gear with the driver gear. Backing it out just a tad will mesh > the worm with the gear, & lookout rear roundhouse wall! You can also > check your valve gear with the pics on my album "1941 Varney 6V > Dockside" (Central Valley, Varney #2641, or Bowser 3-217) to see > which one it is. The CV kit's gear hanger fits between the boiler & > the cylinder block, & is split there, so if you take the shell off > hold a finger on it so everything stays together. I usually leave the > long screw in the frame & thread a nut down to hold the two sides of > the gear hanger together. Ya' got some cool vintage stuff! Wanna' > have a "Dockside" drag sometime?! Ken >> Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central Valley. There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches this drawing exactly Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2069	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.

To be honest with you, I didn't even notice it at first, you have nothing to be sorry about.  It's such a minor problem and such an easy fix.   Now had the model been one of the new Chinese plastic gems, it would be unrepairable and you'd have a $150 static display.  That's why I love the vintage so much.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 5:15 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents. Hello Don, Sorry about the slipping.. I try to catch all those things before they go.... They all were a fine running bunch though... I decided to list today the last piece from that lot  ... an RDC 2.   I have noticed that it is an interesting bunch.. The religious experience was quite funny actually... Can we extent it beyond Varney though..... I have a couple hundred engines and I an sure I have many makes and models that do not run and need to be rizen from the dead... It has been a little longer than three days for some of them... so I am not quite sure what to do in their case... Later! Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: sean naylor >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents. >Hello Don, >That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are >happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with >your address >on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the >factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy! >As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! >Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course... >Later! >Sean Gee, isn't that a coincidence <G>. I am pleased with the Erie. I do have to open it up, it sounds and acts like one of the couplings may be slipping a little on the shaft, but that's nothing a bit of locktite won't fix. It runs better than a lot of brass of that vintage did when new. The only thing I haven't quite decided yet is how to paint it. I'm not sure if I want to do it in my "Milwaukee Northern" or I'm thinking of coming up with an imaginary blue and silver scheme to pull my Varney streamliners. As far as the dockside, I've waited 50 years to get one! (Tell you what, I'll name you in my will). Yours looks interesting, except isn't that actually a Mantua Booster II? Or did Varney have a different body die in later years? (On The Varney the tanks extend flush with the boiler front. In the same box with the Varney is an earlier Mantua that's interesting. It's the exact same body shell as the little six, but only an 0-4-0, which makes it look sort of "tail heavy". BTW, welcome to the group. We've got a great bunch of people here, and sometimes the knowledge people share of these old pieces totally amazes me. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2070	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.

P.S., regarding your other models, ask away, that's why we're here.   Don ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 5:15 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents. Hello Don, Sorry about the slipping.. I try to catch all those things before they go.... They all were a fine running bunch though... I decided to list today the last piece from that lot  ... an RDC 2.   I have noticed that it is an interesting bunch.. The religious experience was quite funny actually... Can we extent it beyond Varney though..... I have a couple hundred engines and I an sure I have many makes and models that do not run and need to be rizen from the dead... It has been a little longer than three days for some of them... so I am not quite sure what to do in their case... Later! Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: sean naylor >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents. >Hello Don, >That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are >happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with >your address >on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the >factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy! >As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! >Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course... >Later! >Sean Gee, isn't that a coincidence <G>. I am pleased with the Erie. I do have to open it up, it sounds and acts like one of the couplings may be slipping a little on the shaft, but that's nothing a bit of locktite won't fix. It runs better than a lot of brass of that vintage did when new. The only thing I haven't quite decided yet is how to paint it. I'm not sure if I want to do it in my "Milwaukee Northern" or I'm thinking of coming up with an imaginary blue and silver scheme to pull my Varney streamliners. As far as the dockside, I've waited 50 years to get one! (Tell you what, I'll name you in my will). Yours looks interesting, except isn't that actually a Mantua Booster II? Or did Varney have a different body die in later years? (On The Varney the tanks extend flush with the boiler front. In the same box with the Varney is an earlier Mantua that's interesting. It's the exact same body shell as the little six, but only an 0-4-0, which makes it look sort of "tail heavy". BTW, welcome to the group. We've got a great bunch of people here, and sometimes the knowledge people share of these old pieces totally amazes me. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2071	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

> > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > wrote: > > Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central Valley. > > There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches this > drawing exactly > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > Don, your "Li'l Joe" might be the pre-war 6V version. All my 1941- 42 ones only have three screws on the bottom too. If ya' get a chance, post som pix of it. Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2072	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Thanks for the useful diagram, Don.   I have one of the 1947-era examples of this model and wonder if you or the group can answer three questions about this loco:   1. Is there any means provided for centring the couplers? They appear to flap in the wind somewhat.   2. Was the loco factory-fitted with jewels (brilliants) in the headlamps or were these an 'aftermarket' add-on?   3. I see the body casting has holes or dimples for handrail posts. Did Varney ever supply a 'super detail' version of the loco with real handrails or was it intended that customers fitted the handrails if they felt it important enough?   Thanks!   By the way, I'd very much like to 'backdate' my loco to 6V operation so if anyone has a spare Pittman 6V motor for sale, please get in touch! Generous price paid.   Best regards, Andy Emmerson.      ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging ----- Original Message ----- From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@verizon. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> > wrote: >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@. ..> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging >> >> >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> I am now the PROUD owner of.......... ....... >> >> >> >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-) >> >> >> >> Don >> >> >> > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen > that >> > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit, > in that >> > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew > can >> > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken >> >> The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like > it's just >> shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the > drive >> gear. > > Don, I'm sure you've seen that there are four screws on the bottom > side of that "Li'l Joe's" frame. First one foreward is the long screw > that attaches the shell to the frame. The very next screw (just > behind the drive gear) is the one that adjusts the mesh of the motor > worm gear with the driver gear. Backing it out just a tad will mesh > the worm with the gear, & lookout rear roundhouse wall! You can also > check your valve gear with the pics on my album "1941 Varney 6V > Dockside" (Central Valley, Varney #2641, or Bowser 3-217) to see > which one it is. The CV kit's gear hanger fits between the boiler & > the cylinder block, & is split there, so if you take the shell off > hold a finger on it so everything stays together. I usually leave the > long screw in the frame & thread a nut down to hold the two sides of > the gear hanger together. Ya' got some cool vintage stuff! Wanna' > have a "Dockside" drag sometime?! Ken >> Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central Valley. There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches this drawing exactly Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2073	From: JGE	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Mantua

Hi: Having just joined. I wondered about Athearn Hustlers and Mantua Stuff? I own a Hoobytown RS-3 Metal, a Revell Deluxe F-7, a Penn Line GG-1 & Cars and 4 Hustlers. be nice to see this shift into the next time period to include Hi-F Athearns some early AHM... Thanks, Gareth People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. Orwell Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2074	From: rcjge	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Has anyone been thru this?

Hi: Might want to look for a guy named Tony Cool here: http://65.174.230.77/tyco/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=20 He should be able to help. Cheers, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "kilbeggan68" <wedfrentz@...> wrote: > > I am trying to rebuild some MU-2 power trucks.I have source for new > gears.Tha almighty question is how do I determine what is a lefthand > worm from a righthand worm? Do you look at it from output end or the > driven end? Any info will be appreciated. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2075	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

I have two Lil' Joes, one 1941, the other purchased new by my Uncle in 48 or 49. The newer one had the warped frame syndrome, which I straightened. I was not happy with the motor/worm adjustment screw. Something was not quite right. It was hitting the brass end plate of the motor, which kept kicking the motor to the side, plus is stuck out a little too far. We probably over-tightened the back hold-down screw too much to compensate. So, I pulled #2 and #3 screws out and swapped them. Screw height was now about perfect, the adjustment screw hits the polepiece, adjustment holds without excessive #4 screw tension. Did the same to the '41 when I put the new lower cover plate on. All those years messing with it, and now it holds just fine. Maybe mine are just odd-balls, who knows. Dave > > Don, > The Joes are one of my favorites. We refurbish a lot of them. > I have all of the parts for them here if you end up needing something. > > I've attached a pic of one that we did a few months ago. This little guy was a basket case when we started it. > > Dan B. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Don Dellmann > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:15 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > wrote: > >> > >> I am now the PROUD owner of................. > >> > >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-) > >> > >> Don > >> > > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen that > > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit, in that > > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew can > > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken > > The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like it's just > shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the drive > gear. Thank goodness for my 1948 catalog that shows me exactly which two > screws to take out to open her up. (As far as vintage goes, what I can see > of the motor etc. inside, it seems to match that 1948 drawing exactly, > except for the aftermarket valve gear, which appears to be either Central > Valley of Kemtron, was there a difference in them?) > > If you saw the lot of 18 vintage cars that came with her on eBay, it's an > interesting mix. The three quad hoppers turned out to be wood, the > Virginaian twin hopper is cardstock, I'm guessing the panel side hopper is > Red Ball (it seems too thick to be the Varney which was described as > "aluminum stampings, thin enough to cut easily with scissors" They appear > to be relatively thin castings. The two reefers are early mantua, there's > an Erie > gondola identical to the T&P one I have that we were talking about last > week, as well as another tank car like the one I just got, a couple Silver > Streak box cars, two Mantua and one Ulrich flat, another embossed > cardstock Comet auto car and an Ulrich compositegondola. > What was frustrating was there's one original Mantua box car > there, of all the different lettering schemes they made, wouldn't you know > it's the same one as the only Mautua box already in my collection! I > haven't decided yet if I should renumber it or trade it. > > Also, when I unpacked the box, there was a Varney cardstock Santa Fe style > caboose and a Mantua 0-4-0-t (that I mentioned in another post) that weren't > listed in the original auction! > > Watch for individual pictures I'll post as I get each peice back in > operation. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2076	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Pickups? 41's had one wiper behind the RR driver, not a pair on LH side. Insulator fit between long lower angled cover and frame. Dave > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > > wrote: > > > > Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central > Valley. > > > > There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches > this > > drawing exactly > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > Don, your "Li'l Joe" might be the pre-war 6V version. All my 1941- > 42 ones only have three screws on the bottom too. If ya' get a > chance, post som pix of it. Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2077	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua

----- Original Message ----- From: "JGE" <rcjge@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua > Hi: > > Having just joined. I wondered about Athearn Hustlers and Mantua Stuff? I > own a Hoobytown RS-3 Metal, a Revell Deluxe F-7, a Penn Line GG-1 & Cars > and 4 Hustlers. be nice to see this shift into the next time period to > include Hi-F Athearns some early AHM... > > Thanks, > Gareth Actually, everything you mention already IS in the time period we cover. I say the focus is early 60's and before, but that's a guideline. What's off topic is things like Sarah Lee era Tyco, Life Like, Bachmann, DCC, anything made in China etc. etc. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2078	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)

That makes sense.  It was the shorter tanks that threw me.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:24 AM Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.) ps.. Don, The pic I posted is a Varney... NOT a Mantua... Look closer at the cab... it is tge dead ringer for varney... The previous owner ground off part of the saddle tank.. I cleaned up the filing job and then detailed it ... Later...   pps.. Let me know if you ever want to trade that lil jo for a small stack of brass detail pieces... or anything else for that matter...   Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: P.S., Thanks again for the extra parts, it wasn't necessary, but I can use all of them except the winterization windows, another friend from the list here was over this evening, saw the bag and grabbed them so fast it'd make your head spin.  So, everything was greatly appreciated and will be used.   Don ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents. Hello Don, That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with your address on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!   As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course... Later! Sean   Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2079	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Mine has the two fingers on the left side (actually looks like one long spring, coiled around a brass boss on the middle between the front and rear drivers. Everything I see points to a late 40's, it matches both the drawing and the photograph in the 1948 catalog (the picture where it's sitting on a pack of Camel cigarettes, I'm sure many have seen). Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 4:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > Pickups? > 41's had one wiper behind the RR driver, not a pair on LH side. > Insulator fit between long lower angled cover and frame. > > Dave > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" > <don.dellmann@> >> > > wrote: >> > >> > Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central >> Valley. >> > >> > There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches >> this >> > drawing exactly >> > >> > Don >> > >> > don.dellmann@ >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> > Owner-Moderator >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> > Co-moderator >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > >> Don, your "Li'l Joe" might be the pre-war 6V version. All my > 1941- >> 42 ones only have three screws on the bottom too. If ya' get a >> chance, post som pix of it. Ken >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2080	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

----- Original Message ----- From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > >> >> >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> >> > wrote: >> >> Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central > Valley. >> >> There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches > this >> drawing exactly >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > Don, your "Li'l Joe" might be the pre-war 6V version. All my 1941- > 42 ones only have three screws on the bottom too. If ya' get a > chance, post som pix of it. Ken I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside" Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring some cars! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2081	From: Glenn	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...

NOW what you need to find is one of those discs that looked like a phonograph record, track around the rim, label "Little Joe Goes to Town".  I have one somewhere, I think--if it hasn't been lost in moves. Got it from local hobby shop in San Carlos when I was in high school. gj  ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Beyond Belonging... Don.....   If it runs...I mean...if you restore it to running order...do you issue yourself a certificate or do you have to commit hari-kari in Shinto style? I'm not sure of the rules here. I have a hunch that mere ownership is not enough...it is the first spiritual step toward enlightenment. I suspect obligatory chants must be made as two candles burn with incense at positions on either end of your acquisition. Prayers will be rendered and must. You have begun the journey, Grasshopper!  Live the journey that has only begun.   John Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You know, looking at the message threads over the last month or so, I've been starting to feel like an outcast in my own group.     There was just something that everybody had, and everybody was talking about that I was just left out.   I was really feeling neglected.       Well NO MORE!   I FINALLY am a member of the group!  I finally belong!   As of 1:30 this afternoon when I went to the post office, I am now one of you, no longer an outcast!   I am now the PROUD owner of.......... .......               A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN!  :-)   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY         Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2082	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Then it has to have 4 screws. Front one holds the cylinders and boiler, second (originally) motor mesh, third holds the cover, then back on the frame is the motor main screw. > > Mine has the two fingers on the left side (actually looks like one long > spring, coiled around a brass boss on the middle between the front and rear > drivers. Everything I see points to a late 40's, it matches both the > drawing and the photograph in the 1948 catalog (the picture where it's > sitting on a pack of Camel cigarettes, I'm sure many have seen). > > Don > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 4:49 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > > > > Pickups? > > 41's had one wiper behind the RR driver, not a pair on LH side. > > Insulator fit between long lower angled cover and frame. > > > > Dave > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" > > <don.dellmann@> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > >> > Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central > >> Valley. > >> > > >> > There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches > >> this > >> > drawing exactly > >> > > >> > Don > >> > > >> > don.dellmann@ > >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > >> > Owner-Moderator > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> > Co-moderator > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > >> > > >> Don, your "Li'l Joe" might be the pre-war 6V version. All my > > 1941- > >> 42 ones only have three screws on the bottom too. If ya' get a > >> chance, post som pix of it. Ken > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2083	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

I hate to think how "proud" you would be if you found one that DID run...  LOL Congrats... Dave S. Owner of a TriAng Docksider that I think still runs..  Don Dellmann wrote: You know, looking at the message threads over the last month or so, I've been starting to feel like an outcast in my own group.     There was just something that everybody had, and everybody was talking about that I was just left out.   I was really feeling neglected.       Well NO MORE!   I FINALLY am a member of the group!  I finally belong!   As of 1:30 this afternoon when I went to the post office, I am now one of you, no longer an outcast!   I am now the PROUD owner of.................               A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN!  :-)   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY         No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/634 - Release Date: 1/17/2007 4:45 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2084	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

> > I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside" > > Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring some cars! > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > Thanks for the pics of your "Li'l Joe" Don! The frame is the same one that was used on the 1941-42 6V version. Note that the lip on the rear angled up end of the frame plate is identical to the pre-war piece, & only three screws as you've stated. But, the motor is the 1st 12V Pittman, with the newer center stud/bronze wire two driver electrical p/u. These were produced postwar between 1946-48, before the frame was changed in 1949. The CV valve gear (which yours has) was first produced by the original Central Valley Model Works located at 13000 Saticoy Street in North Hollywood, CA in 1947. Yours also has the stanchions & handrails, so a good manufacturing guess is 1947 on that 60 year old little beauty! Some motors had a shim between the front motor plate & loco frame which could be holding your motor up a tad too high to properly mesh with the driver gear, causing the motor to spin. Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2085	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Yes, the long bottom cover is early. See the gap between the cover and the frame at the last screw? The insulator for the pickup on the one RR wheel fit there, and you have a gap. Also, not the countersunk flathead screw that held the motor AND the plate down. Newer plates stop right behind the rear axle journal. Mine is converting to a new lower plate (done) and double pickups (done). Another thing was they pcked up power on thr right, while later ones did on the left, and the motor brushes are wired backwards. If yours has been converted to 12v, and the wires aren't swapped, it will run the other way. Mine was missing the fiber plate and wiper, did not have the left hand pickups, and had a 12V motor. The later ones had a "hump" on the frame on the left side with a 2- 56 hole to mount the LH pickup assembly. The 41 I have is flat. I drilled, tapped, and had to add.....two 2-56 Kadee washers to fit it out and miss the armature. I also upgraded mine to the "upgrade" crosshead and rod. Looks a whole lot better than the stamped crosshead on the later one. I will upgrade it in my next order. Dan Bush at Yardbird has the stuff, pickups, lower covers and all, if that helps. Dave > > > > > > I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside" > > > > Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring some > cars! > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > Thanks for the pics of your "Li'l Joe" Don! The frame is the same > one that was used on the 1941-42 6V version. Note that the lip on the > rear angled up end of the frame plate is identical to the pre-war > piece, & only three screws as you've stated. But, the motor is the > 1st 12V Pittman, with the newer center stud/bronze wire two driver > electrical p/u. These were produced postwar between 1946-48, before > the frame was changed in 1949. The CV valve gear (which yours has) > was first produced by the original Central Valley Model Works located > at 13000 Saticoy Street in North Hollywood, CA in 1947. Yours also > has the stanchions & handrails, so a good manufacturing guess is 1947 > on that 60 year old little beauty! > > Some motors had a shim between the front motor plate & loco frame > which could be holding your motor up a tad too high to properly mesh > with the driver gear, causing the motor to spin. Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2086	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: jodanjackkayla , I see a photo with a question

In your album is a photo of a 2-bay hopper,and a question as to who made it. I tried to e-mail you, but it's "private" and not listed. I have been in ScaleCraft "0" for many moons, and the looks of that frame sure looks ScaleCraft to me, aluminum with a smooth hollow down the middle. It almost appears as if, from the "00" I have seen, that the wheels may have been changed, but hard to say from the photo. Just an idea, based upon what I could see, not a "for sure", but ScaleCraft used the same design criteria in "00" as they did in "0" in the stuff I've seen. Especially the cast passenger cars. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2087	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

The more I look at those photos (is there a way to "supersize" them?), the more I see. #2 screw, which is motor and worm adjustment, looks like it is turned so far in it has popped through the bottom cover, as has the rear motor screw. That means the only thing holding the bottom cover on is the long boiler screw (#1). Mine have, for the screw right behind the slot, a very wide flathead screw. Dave > > Yes, the long bottom cover is early. See the gap between the cover > and the frame at the last screw? The insulator for the pickup on the > one RR wheel fit there, and you have a gap. > Also, not the countersunk flathead screw that held the motor AND the > plate down. > Newer plates stop right behind the rear axle journal. > > Mine is converting to a new lower plate (done) and double pickups > (done). Another thing was they pcked up power on thr right, while > later ones did on the left, and the motor brushes are wired > backwards. > If yours has been converted to 12v, and the wires aren't swapped, it > will run the other way. > > Mine was missing the fiber plate and wiper, did not have the left > hand pickups, and had a 12V motor. > The later ones had a "hump" on the frame on the left side with a 2- > 56 hole to mount the LH pickup assembly. The 41 I have is flat. I > drilled, tapped, and had to add.....two 2-56 Kadee washers to fit it > out and miss the armature. > > I also upgraded mine to the "upgrade" crosshead and rod. > Looks a whole lot better than the stamped crosshead on the later one. > I will upgrade it in my next order. > > Dan Bush at Yardbird has the stuff, pickups, lower covers and all, > if that helps. > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside" > > > > > > Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring > some > > cars! > > > > > > Don > > > > > > don.dellmann@ > > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > > Owner-Moderator > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > Co-moderator > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > > Thanks for the pics of your "Li'l Joe" Don! The frame is the > same > > one that was used on the 1941-42 6V version. Note that the lip on > the > > rear angled up end of the frame plate is identical to the pre- war > > piece, & only three screws as you've stated. But, the motor is the > > 1st 12V Pittman, with the newer center stud/bronze wire two driver > > electrical p/u. These were produced postwar between 1946-48, > before > > the frame was changed in 1949. The CV valve gear (which yours has) > > was first produced by the original Central Valley Model Works > located > > at 13000 Saticoy Street in North Hollywood, CA in 1947. Yours also > > has the stanchions & handrails, so a good manufacturing guess is > 1947 > > on that 60 year old little beauty! > > > > Some motors had a shim between the front motor plate & loco > frame > > which could be holding your motor up a tad too high to properly > mesh > > with the driver gear, causing the motor to spin. Ken > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2088	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

----- Original Message ----- From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > >> >> I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside" >> >> Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring some > cars! >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > Thanks for the pics of your "Li'l Joe" Don! The frame is the same > one that was used on the 1941-42 6V version. Note that the lip on the > rear angled up end of the frame plate is identical to the pre-war > piece, & only three screws as you've stated. But, the motor is the > 1st 12V Pittman, with the newer center stud/bronze wire two driver > electrical p/u. These were produced postwar between 1946-48, before > the frame was changed in 1949. The CV valve gear (which yours has) > was first produced by the original Central Valley Model Works located > at 13000 Saticoy Street in North Hollywood, CA in 1947. Yours also > has the stanchions & handrails, so a good manufacturing guess is 1947 > on that 60 year old little beauty! > > Some motors had a shim between the front motor plate & loco frame > which could be holding your motor up a tad too high to properly mesh > with the driver gear, causing the motor to spin. Ken That's kind of what I was supecting from what I could see in the catalog and what Other people were saying on the list. You know something? It's a little scary to think that locomotive is the same age I am! I haven't fooled around with it, but when I took the boiler off for the photo, I did find the motor is quite loose on it's mountings, so I think this is going to be a relatively easy fix. The only real damage to the locomotive appears to be the one footboard on the front. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2089	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Attachments : ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:54 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > The more I look at those photos (is there a way to "supersize" > them?), the more I see. > #2 screw, which is motor and worm adjustment, looks like it is > turned so far in it has popped through the bottom cover, as has the > rear motor screw. > That means the only thing holding the bottom cover on is the long > boiler screw (#1). > Mine have, for the screw right behind the slot, a very wide flathead > screw. > > Dave > >> >> Yes, the long bottom cover is early. See the gap between the cover >> and the frame at the last screw? The insulator for the pickup on > the >> one RR wheel fit there, and you have a gap. >> Also, not the countersunk flathead screw that held the motor AND > the >> plate down. >> Newer plates stop right behind the rear axle journal. >> >> Mine is converting to a new lower plate (done) and double pickups >> (done). Another thing was they pcked up power on thr right, while >> later ones did on the left, and the motor brushes are wired >> backwards. >> If yours has been converted to 12v, and the wires aren't swapped, > it >> will run the other way. >> >> Mine was missing the fiber plate and wiper, did not have the left >> hand pickups, and had a 12V motor. >> The later ones had a "hump" on the frame on the left side with a 2- >> 56 hole to mount the LH pickup assembly. The 41 I have is flat. I >> drilled, tapped, and had to add.....two 2-56 Kadee washers to fit > it >> out and miss the armature. >> >> I also upgraded mine to the "upgrade" crosshead and rod. >> Looks a whole lot better than the stamped crosshead on the later > one. >> I will upgrade it in my next order. >> >> Dan Bush at Yardbird has the stuff, pickups, lower covers and all, >> if that helps. >> >> Dave Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced the size. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2090	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

- > > That's kind of what I was supecting from what I could see in the catalog and > what Other people were saying on the list. > > You know something? It's a little scary to think that locomotive is the > same age I am! > > I haven't fooled around with it, but when I took the boiler off for the > photo, I did find the motor is quite loose on it's mountings, so I think > this is going to be a relatively easy fix. The only real damage to the > locomotive appears to be the one footboard on the front. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > 60! That's why we're into "vintage"! Front step is an easy fix with a little brass. Tighten that motor down & voila! Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2091	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored. Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not blocking anything. Dave > > > > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced the size. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2092	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be able to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned seeing).   I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble.   If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to pick, choose, and delete whatever I wish.   Happy modeling, dave!   yours   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut) curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored. Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not blocking anything. Dave > > > > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced the size. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2093	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging - Att'n curmudgeon

Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be able to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned seeing).   I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble.   If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to pick, choose, and delete whatever I wish.   Happy modeling, Dave!   yours   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut) curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored. Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not blocking anything. Dave > > > > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced the size. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2094	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

I'm "web only". Maybe I need to change that? My e-mail is listed, if you want to e-mail me those I can see them. Dave > > Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be able to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned seeing). > > I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble. > > If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to pick, choose, and delete whatever I wish. > > Happy modeling, dave! > > yours > > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut) > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing > there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored. > Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not > blocking anything. > Dave > > > > > > > > > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced > the size. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2095	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

I tried to ask this yesterday, but my ISP had problems--fixed now.   I think it was Dan mentioned doing a bunch of restorations of Varney Docksides.  Is that a commercial operation? I have one that needs work, including CV Valve gear if it can be found--and I have too many other projects to work on--looking for someone to do it.  gj  glenn476@....  (Lets see if this gets out of the outbox! ) ----- Original Message ----- From: oahurailway To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > > I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside" > > Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring some cars! > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > Thanks for the pics of your "Li'l Joe" Don! The frame is the same one that was used on the 1941-42 6V version. Note that the lip on the rear angled up end of the frame plate is identical to the pre-war piece, & only three screws as you've stated. But, the motor is the 1st 12V Pittman, with the newer center stud/bronze wire two driver electrical p/u. These were produced postwar between 1946-48, before the frame was changed in 1949. The CV valve gear (which yours has) was first produced by the original Central Valley Model Works located at 13000 Saticoy Street in North Hollywood, CA in 1947. Yours also has the stanchions & handrails, so a good manufacturing guess is 1947 on that 60 year old little beauty! Some motors had a shim between the front motor plate & loco frame which could be holding your motor up a tad too high to properly mesh with the driver gear, causing the motor to spin. Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2096	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

That is definitely the problem then. I'll send them to you off list. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > I'm "web only". > Maybe I need to change that? > My e-mail is listed, if you want to e-mail me those I can see them. > Dave > > >> >> Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be able > to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned > seeing). >> >> I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble. >> >> If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail > settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to pick, > choose, and delete whatever I wish. >> >> Happy modeling, dave! >> >> yours >> >> Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut) >> >> curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: >> I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing >> there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored. >> Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not >> blocking anything. >> Dave >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo > reduced >> the size. >> > >> > Don >> > >> > don.dellmann@ >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> > Owner-Moderator >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> > Co-moderator >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2097	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Are you getting individual emails? If you getc "daily digest" or "no email" (read messages on the website) you won't get the pictures. If you want them I can forward them to you off list. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging >I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing > there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored. > Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not > blocking anything. > Dave > >> >> >> >> Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced > the size. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2098	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

Okay, got 'em, now I can see what I wanted to see. The '41 I have, the frame sides are flat between the "journals". There is no "hump" to mount the pickups on and hold them away from the armature. The 48-49 unit has these humps, on BOTH sides. Yours has these humps on both sides. Looking at yours, and this is a guess, the lower cover has been changed out at some point (early covers have no "saddles" to keep the axles up tight into the journals, later flat covers that I have seen do) to an "early" cover. If you pull the lower cover, I would like to know (primarily 'cause I'm nosy...no, just increasing my "knowledge base") if there is ANOTHER drilled and tapped hole behind hole #2. That would confirm it. The other possibility is that this was an interim model, and used up leftover parts from the '41-'42 versions just post-war. Thanks for the photos, too. Dave > That is definitely the problem then. > > I'll send them to you off list. > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:38 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > > > > I'm "web only". > > Maybe I need to change that? > > My e-mail is listed, if you want to e-mail me those I can see them. > > Dave > > > > > >> > >> Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be able > > to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned > > seeing). > >> > >> I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble. > >> > >> If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail > > settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to pick, > > choose, and delete whatever I wish. > >> > >> Happy modeling, dave! > >> > >> yours > >> > >> Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut) > >> > >> curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > >> I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing > >> there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored. > >> Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not > >> blocking anything. > >> Dave > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo > > reduced > >> the size. > >> > > >> > Don > >> > > >> > don.dellmann@ > >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > >> > Owner-Moderator > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> > Co-moderator > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2099	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging

And, blowing up the photo of the chassis alone, to like 133%, it sure looks like the worm and gear are meshed. Of course, at that resolution it get's a tad shaky. Dave > > Okay, got 'em, now I can see what I wanted to see. > The '41 I have, the frame sides are flat between the "journals". > There is no "hump" to mount the pickups on and hold them away from > the armature. > The 48-49 unit has these humps, on BOTH sides. > Yours has these humps on both sides. > Looking at yours, and this is a guess, the lower cover has been > changed out at some point (early covers have no "saddles" to keep > the axles up tight into the journals, later flat covers that I have > seen do) to an "early" cover. > If you pull the lower cover, I would like to know (primarily 'cause > I'm nosy...no, just increasing my "knowledge base") if there is > ANOTHER drilled and tapped hole behind hole #2. > That would confirm it. > > The other possibility is that this was an interim model, and used up > leftover parts from the '41-'42 versions just post-war. > > Thanks for the photos, too. > > Dave > > > That is definitely the problem then. > > > > I'll send them to you off list. > > > > Don > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:38 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging > > > > > > > I'm "web only". > > > Maybe I need to change that? > > > My e-mail is listed, if you want to e-mail me those I can see > them. > > > Dave > > > > > > > > >> > > >> Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be > able > > > to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned > > > seeing). > > >> > > >> I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble. > > >> > > >> If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail > > > settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to > pick, > > > choose, and delete whatever I wish. > > >> > > >> Happy modeling, dave! > > >> > > >> yours > > >> > > >> Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut) > > >> > > >> curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > > >> I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was > nothing > > >> there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored. > > >> Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm > not > > >> blocking anything. > > >> Dave > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo > > > reduced > > >> the size. > > >> > > > >> > Don > > >> > > > >> > don.dellmann@ > > >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > >> > Owner-Moderator > > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > >> > Co-moderator > > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> __________________________________________________ > > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2100	From: jodanjackkayla	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: jodanjackkayla , I see a photo with a question

Thanks Dave, I will have to fix the email thing. I appriciate the info. Tom --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > In your album is a photo of a 2-bay hopper,and a question as to who > made it. > > I tried to e-mail you, but it's "private" and not listed. > > I have been in ScaleCraft "0" for many moons, and the looks of that > frame sure looks ScaleCraft to me, aluminum with a smooth hollow down > the middle. > > It almost appears as if, from the "00" I have seen, that the wheels > may have been changed, but hard to say from the photo. > > Just an idea, based upon what I could see, not a "for sure", but > ScaleCraft used the same design criteria in "00" as they did in "0" in > the stuff I've seen. > Especially the cast passenger cars. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2101	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Rescued Junque

Attachments : Out of the batch of cars that came with the infamous Dockside, got the first two back in service. The boxcar is a Silver Streak, I believe the hopper to be a Red Ball. Both Red Ball & Varney made this car, but the varney was this aluminum stampings, and this car appears to be diecast. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2102	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/19/2007
Subject: Fix Me Please!

To Anyone who knows... I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT? MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT. I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING! AND REALLY NICE DETAIL I will try to post pics.... Thanks so much in advance... Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2103	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 1/19/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

Sean:  You might try putting a piece of pipe in there and see if you can bring it back to being round again. I would first see if I could take off the smoke stack, and then try and use the pipe to put pressure on the inside of the smoke box, and gently try to bring it back in shape. Don't use a lot of force and remember it is brass. Start with smaller piece of pipe or even wood, and slowly work on it to get it back into being round. The piece that pop out will then fit back in place because it wasn't solder in place, it just a press fit so that you can put in more weight into the engine or to even put light to your headlight.  I hope that this has help you.  Mike Looney

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2104	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/19/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

Be thankful you have something small to work with that has thin brass. I had to do a #1 gauge live-steamer that had happened to. Seems the tricks posted should do it. Is the stack open to the smokebox? Possibly a small block of wood, a screw, nut and washer on top of the screw, hole in the wood, inserted, and put a screwdriver down the stack and back the screw out slowly against the washer..... > > To Anyone who knows... > > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF > > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT? > > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT. > > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING! > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL > > I will try to post pics.... > > Thanks so much in advance... > Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2105	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

Thanks Mike, That is exactly how  was thinking of doing it... The only problem I have with it is all the detail pieces that are sticking through to the inside of the smoke box. It might be difficult to sneak past those... I did not want to screw it up, if someone knew a better way.. The stack just pops off (the sweat joint is broken from the fall) I just keep it pressed in to keep from losing it. Luckily, I was given the smoke box cover with the engine when I purchased it... I have a 2-8-8-4 that is missing the cover - no damage though.  Fortunately, I have one with two pumps on it that needs to be worked over a little to fit.      I never knew the covers wer not soldiered on... That makes me feel a ton better. Thanks Mike, I fell better about giving it a try... Did you see the pictures I posted?   Sean "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote: Sean:  You might try putting a piece of pipe in there and see if you can bring it back to being round again. I would first see if I could take off the smoke stack, and then try and use the pipe to put pressure on the inside of the smoke box, and gently try to bring it back in shape. Don't use a lot of force and remember it is brass. Start with smaller piece of pipe or even wood, and slowly work on it to get it back into being round. The piece that pop out will then fit back in place because it wasn't solder in place, it just a press fit so that you can put in more weight into the engine or to even put light to your headlight.  I hope that this has help you.  Mike Looney Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2106	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

Hello, ? I am very thankful.... I love the engine and will post new pics of the finished engine in the - Fix Me Please - folder I started...   I tried Mike's idea last night... I replied to his message, but because I tried to add pictures to it, the message was too large and it was returned to me...( I just made that discovery)  I just sent a new one..   I need to take out one screw which seems to be holding on the chassis / steam cylinders before I can put the wood into the smoke box any farther.. I will definitely try your idea... that sounds great! I will bend the washer a little - to match the original curve -   Honestly, I was thinking of a bolt & concrete anchor that expands....   Thanks so much! Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Be thankful you have something small to work with that has thin brass. I had to do a #1 gauge live-steamer that had happened to. Seems the tricks posted should do it. Is the stack open to the smokebox? Possibly a small block of wood, a screw, nut and washer on top of the screw, hole in the wood, inserted, and put a screwdriver down the stack and back the screw out slowly against the washer..... > > To Anyone who knows... > > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF > > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT? > > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT. > > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING! > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL > > I will try to post pics.... > > Thanks so much in advance... > Sean > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2107	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

All I can think of is if you can find a piece of pipe or a HARDWOOD dowel that's the right diameter, taper one end a little, and see if you can work it inside as a mandrell and hammer it out round again. The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your eBay profits to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that believe it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't realize it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the better, because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to spread to adjoining work. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please! > To Anyone who knows... > > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF > > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT? > > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT. > > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING! > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL > > I will try to post pics.... > > Thanks so much in advance... > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2108	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

HEY DON,  I AM JUST ABOUT TO STARY PACKING BOXES AND PRINTING LABELS...   MY GUN IS A SEARS 140/100 WATT.. 250 WOULD DO ME JUST FINE... THE QUICK HEAT MAKES SENCE..   I HAVE ALSO SEEN THOSE MINI TORCHES... I WONDER IF ANYONE KNOWS HOW THEY WORK?   I WILL HAVE TO GET A NEW IRON THOUGH... I WAS ALSO THINKING OF TAPERING THE DOWEL TOO.. I DO HAVE A TINY LITTLE HAMMER... I WOULD HATE TO MISS AND SMASH SOME OF THE DETAIL THOUGH...   IT IS HARD TO SPEND MY PROFITS ON ANYTHING BUT TRAINS - OR MY 69 MUSTANG.. (just put a pic in my new folder (SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS)... GOT TO BITE THE BULLET, I GUESS.   TAHNKS DON! SEAN Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: All I can think of is if you can find a piece of pipe or a HARDWOOD dowel that's the right diameter, taper one end a little, and see if you can work it inside as a mandrell and hammer it out round again. The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your eBay profits to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that believe it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't realize it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the better, because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to spread to adjoining work. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please! > To Anyone who knows... > > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF > > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT? > > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT. > > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING! > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL > > I will try to post pics.... > > Thanks so much in advance... > Sean Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2109	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

The operative word here is "IRON". If you need to do any serious work that requires HEAT, get a soldering iron as opposed to a soldering gun. You may know this but in your posts you have used both terms. They are NOT interchangeable. Soldering guns do produce a heat in a short time but their tips have little mass and as soon as you touch them to some thing bigger than a small wire, like a loco boiler, all the heat gets sucked out of the tip. Irons have larger tips to absord the heat, which is why they take longer to heat up, so there is more heat volume to transfer to the item being soldered. I worked at a VW dealer and observed a technician struggling (and cussing) for some time trying to solder 12 gauge wiring to a heater blower resistor with his high wattage gun. I suggested he try an iron; he went to the tool room and got the recommended tool for the job, a large soldering iron. It only took a few seconds per wire once the iron was heated up. A torch will also work well but do apply a LOT of heat quickly. It may take a bit of practice for model work but hey are the tool of choice for experienced modellers on bigger items. The soldering guns do have uses where the volume of heat isn't important, especially in the electronic end of things. I recently purchased one of the new "instant heat" battery powered soldering tools from Harbor Feight Tools for $5 less than "as advertised on TV" and paid no shipping charge (I happen have one close to me). I've used it only once, but it does show promise. More use will tell the tale but it seems to work like a smaller (25 -35 watt) iron. By the way Sean, when on-line and you type in UPPER CASE, you are YELLING. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > HEY DON, > I AM JUST ABOUT TO STARY PACKING BOXES AND PRINTING LABELS... > > MY GUN IS A SEARS 140/100 WATT.. 250 WOULD DO ME JUST FINE... THE QUICK HEAT MAKES SENCE.. > > I HAVE ALSO SEEN THOSE MINI TORCHES... I WONDER IF ANYONE KNOWS HOW THEY WORK? > > I WILL HAVE TO GET A NEW IRON THOUGH... I WAS ALSO THINKING OF TAPERING THE DOWEL TOO.. I DO HAVE A TINY LITTLE HAMMER... I WOULD HATE TO MISS AND SMASH SOME OF THE DETAIL THOUGH... > > IT IS HARD TO SPEND MY PROFITS ON ANYTHING BUT TRAINS - OR MY 69 MUSTANG.. (just put a pic in my new folder (SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS)... GOT TO BITE THE BULLET, I GUESS. > > TAHNKS DON! > SEAN > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > All I can think of is if you can find a piece of pipe or a HARDWOOD dowel > that's the right diameter, taper one end a little, and see if you can work > it inside as a mandrell and hammer it out round again. > > The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your eBay profits > to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that believe > it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't realize > it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the better, > because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to spread > to adjoining work. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:45 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please! > > > To Anyone who knows... > > > > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT > > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN > > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF > > > > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT? > > > > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT. > > > > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING! > > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL > > > > I will try to post pics.... > > > > Thanks so much in advance... > > Sean > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2110	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Soldering brass

"Don Dellmann" opined: >The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your eBay profits >to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that believe >it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't realize >it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the better, >because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to spread >to adjoining work. Excellent recommendation...when I visited a "brass manufacturing" shop in Japan during the 60s, I was amazed watching those rather demure small Japanese women assembling brass locos with a soldering iron that looked too big for them to lift. The secret is wattage with a very LARGE tip on the iron...massive heat will get the job done before all the other parts start to fall off....a soldering gun or pencil will never do. My iron has a copper tip between 1/2 and 3/4 inch wide. One of these days, if I can find them, I'll upload a few of the B&W pix I took at one of Kumata's "factories". Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2111	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

Sean:  I just looked at the picture and it not that bad, now what I would do is to remove some of the piece on top of the smokebox, like the number boards and the feedwater heater, and the smoke stack, and then heat it up just a little bit while using a pipe or a piece of wood to bring it back into shape.  Now on your other project I would check with Bowser and there Cal-Scale line and see if they have the smoke box cover that you will need to replace the one that is missing.  There is also a listing in Walther's of Cal-Scale part but I don't know if is a full listing.  I hope this help you out.  Mike Looney

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2112	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: More cars running.

Attachments : Got two more cars running out of the "junque" assortment. Both are 1940's Mantuas. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2113	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

The "Blazer" torch is nice--runs on lighter-fuel butane--fills from a large can.  I'd put a hard cylindrical mandrel in the smokebox and work the outside with a piece of soft pine or redwood--rubbing the brass. Possibly anneal the damaged area with a small torch if you can do so without doing more damage. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:23 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please! HEY DON,  I AM JUST ABOUT TO STARY PACKING BOXES AND PRINTING LABELS...   MY GUN IS A SEARS 140/100 WATT.. 250 WOULD DO ME JUST FINE... THE QUICK HEAT MAKES SENCE..   I HAVE ALSO SEEN THOSE MINI TORCHES... I WONDER IF ANYONE KNOWS HOW THEY WORK?   I WILL HAVE TO GET A NEW IRON THOUGH... I WAS ALSO THINKING OF TAPERING THE DOWEL TOO.. I DO HAVE A TINY LITTLE HAMMER... I WOULD HATE TO MISS AND SMASH SOME OF THE DETAIL THOUGH...   IT IS HARD TO SPEND MY PROFITS ON ANYTHING BUT TRAINS - OR MY 69 MUSTANG.. (just put a pic in my new folder (SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS)... GOT TO BITE THE BULLET, I GUESS.   TAHNKS DON! SEAN Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: All I can think of is if you can find a piece of pipe or a HARDWOOD dowel that's the right diameter, taper one end a little, and see if you can work it inside as a mandrell and hammer it out round again. The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your eBay profits to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that believe it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't realize it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the better, because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to spread to adjoining work. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please! > To Anyone who knows... > > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF > > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT? > > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT. > > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING! > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL > > I will try to post pics.... > > Thanks so much in advance... > Sean Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2114	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: More cars running.

But with Kadee couplers?  and not even the old "K" series??gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] More cars running. Got two more cars running out of the "junque" assortment. Both are 1940's Mantuas. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2115	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear

With all the discussion about the Varney 0-4-0T, I went back to look at an uncompleted kit I had purchased some time ago.  It came complete with the Varney parts sheet and the detailed instructions for the Central Valley Valve Gear from 1949.    I will need a significant number of parts, and probably a whole new valve gear kit before I can restore it, not to mention the time.  The cylinder casting is broken off on one side, which may have happened when the prior owner, following the CV instructions attempted to "Force crosshead guides into square holes in cylinder casting."  The break could easily be glued back together with cyanoacrylate, but the cylinder casting seems to be suffering from some kind of metal rot.  It seems solid enough, but large cracks are apparent all over it.  The body is fine though.   Since others might have a use for these instructions, I scanned them and placed them in the files section of the group website.  I would have sent it as an attachment, but it is about 1 meg to make it still readable.  The link is shown below.  I hope it is useful.   http://tinyurl.com/3cwr6w   Dale Smith Pacifica, CA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2116	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> wrote: > > With all the discussion about the Varney 0-4-0T, I went back to look at an uncompleted kit I had purchased some time ago. It came complete with the Varney parts sheet and the detailed instructions for the Central Valley Valve Gear from 1949. > > I will need a significant number of parts, and probably a whole new valve gear kit before I can restore it, not to mention the time. The cylinder casting is broken off on one side, which may have happened when the prior owner, following the CV instructions attempted to "Force crosshead guides into square holes in cylinder casting." The break could easily be glued back together with cyanoacrylate, but the cylinder casting seems to be suffering from some kind of metal rot. It seems solid enough, but large cracks are apparent all over it. The body is fine though. > > Since others might have a use for these instructions, I scanned them and placed them in the files section of the group website. I would have sent it as an attachment, but it is about 1 meg to make it still readable. The link is shown below. I hope it is useful. > > http://tinyurl.com/3cwr6w > > Dale Smith > Pacifica, CA > Thanks Dale for scanning the CV valve gear instruction sheet! You can find parts for the Varney "Dockside" at Bowser on line at; http://www.bowser-trains.com .They make the Delrin cylinder #1-70223, a very nice valve gear kit #3-217 (see my photo album on the 1941 "Dockside"), & a super detail kit #3-218 among other items, as they acquired some of Varney's original tooling. Click on "Manufacturers #s On The Price Lists" at their website. Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2117	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear

Hello Ken, I met up with Tom today and we exchanged trades... Included with mine was the CV valve gear kit. He told me to scan the instructions and send you a pic of them... Would you rather have the actual original... I do not need it after I scan it. I could mail it to you... The most it would cost me is the price of the stamp,, bid deal... If you want it, it is yours.. Sean oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@. ..> wrote: > > With all the discussion about the Varney 0-4-0T, I went back to look at an uncompleted kit I had purchased some time ago. It came complete with the Varney parts sheet and the detailed instructions for the Central Valley Valve Gear from 1949. > > I will need a significant number of parts, and probably a whole new valve gear kit before I can restore it, not to mention the time. The cylinder casting is broken off on one side, which may have happened when the prior owner, following the CV instructions attempted to "Force crosshead guides into square holes in cylinder casting." The break could easily be glued back together with cyanoacrylate, but the cylinder casting seems to be suffering from some kind of metal rot. It seems solid enough, but large cracks are apparent all over it. The body is fine though. > > Since others might have a use for these instructions, I scanned them and placed them in the files section of the group website. I would have sent it as an attachment, but it is about 1 meg to make it still readable. The link is shown below. I hope it is useful. > > http://tinyurl. com/3cwr6w > > Dale Smith > Pacifica, CA > Thanks Dale for scanning the CV valve gear instruction sheet! You can find parts for the Varney "Dockside" at Bowser on line at; http://www.bowser- trains.com .They make the Delrin cylinder #1-70223, a very nice valve gear kit #3-217 (see my photo album on the 1941 "Dockside"), & a super detail kit #3-218 among other items, as they acquired some of Varney's original tooling. Click on "Manufacturers #s On The Price Lists" at their website. Ken Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2118	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: More cars running.

If it makes you happy, there are a couple cars on the layout with "k"s, and even one of my cabeese with the old MDC mechanical knuckles. :-)   The operative word here in the group though is "operators".  We don't just collect this stuff, we RUN it, and on my layout that means Kadees.  (These cars came with Mantua loop & hooks).  I also upgrade the trucks and wheelsets if necessary.  For the time being these are running on the original Mantua trucks, but if they gibve trouble they WILL be swapped out with newer trucks.  I also pride myself on the fact that there is not a plastic wheel on the layout with the possible exception of one or two insulated wheels on a locomotive or two.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY     ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Joesten To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More cars running. But with Kadee couplers?  and not even the old "K" series??gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] More cars running. Got two more cars running out of the "junque" assortment. Both are 1940's Mantuas. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2119	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

Hello John and Ray,   look... No Caps!   Sorry, I a not YELLING. It is a habit. I work using AutoCAD at least 2-4 days a week. Also... I list items "occasionally" on eBay... I tend to use caps there as well.   As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it makes perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of Pitt. earning my engineering degree tell me you are absolutely correct. Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about using such a large object to do detail work on the brass, but if you say little Japanese women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too big for them to lift, then I should be able to give it a go...Thank you.  I do believe now, I will be getting one of each. Right now, I have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron that I use my map gas torch to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long and 1/2 - 3/4 inch thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I used it. I think I would want an electric one for this type of work..   As for the 2-8-8-4, I have dozens of brass smoke box covers and one in particular picked out that I will use... It needs a little working over to fit properly. It is just a matter of getting around to it...   Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any  advice I can use on my mustang I have pictured? Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: The operative word here is "IRON". If you need to do any serious work that requires HEAT, get a soldering iron as opposed to a soldering gun. You may know this but in your posts you have used both terms. They are NOT interchangeable. Soldering guns do produce a heat in a short time but their tips have little mass and as soon as you touch them to some thing bigger than a small wire, like a loco boiler, all the heat gets sucked out of the tip. Irons have larger tips to absord the heat, which is why they take longer to heat up, so there is more heat volume to transfer to the item being soldered. I worked at a VW dealer and observed a technician struggling (and cussing) for some time trying to solder 12 gauge wiring to a heater blower resistor with his high wattage gun. I suggested he try an iron; he went to the tool room and got the recommended tool for the job, a large soldering iron. It only took a few seconds per wire once the iron was heated up. A torch will also work well but do apply a LOT of heat quickly. It may take a bit of practice for model work but hey are the tool of choice for experienced modellers on bigger items. The soldering guns do have uses where the volume of heat isn't important, especially in the electronic end of things. I recently purchased one of the new "instant heat" battery powered soldering tools from Harbor Feight Tools for $5 less than "as advertised on TV" and paid no shipping charge (I happen have one close to me). I've used it only once, but it does show promise. More use will tell the tale but it seems to work like a smaller (25 -35 watt) iron. By the way Sean, when on-line and you type in UPPER CASE, you are YELLING. --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > HEY DON, > I AM JUST ABOUT TO STARY PACKING BOXES AND PRINTING LABELS... > > MY GUN IS A SEARS 140/100 WATT.. 250 WOULD DO ME JUST FINE... THE QUICK HEAT MAKES SENCE.. > > I HAVE ALSO SEEN THOSE MINI TORCHES... I WONDER IF ANYONE KNOWS HOW THEY WORK? > > I WILL HAVE TO GET A NEW IRON THOUGH... I WAS ALSO THINKING OF TAPERING THE DOWEL TOO.. I DO HAVE A TINY LITTLE HAMMER... I WOULD HATE TO MISS AND SMASH SOME OF THE DETAIL THOUGH... > > IT IS HARD TO SPEND MY PROFITS ON ANYTHING BUT TRAINS - OR MY 69 MUSTANG.. (just put a pic in my new folder (SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS)... GOT TO BITE THE BULLET, I GUESS. > > TAHNKS DON! > SEAN > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > All I can think of is if you can find a piece of pipe or a HARDWOOD dowel > that's the right diameter, taper one end a little, and see if you can work > it inside as a mandrell and hammer it out round again. > > The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your eBay profits > to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that believe > it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't realize > it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the better, > because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to spread > to adjoining work. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:45 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please! > > > To Anyone who knows... > > > > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT > > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN > > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF > > > > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT? > > > > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT. > > > > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING! > > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL > > > > I will try to post pics.... > > > > Thanks so much in advance... > > Sean > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2120	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear

Ken,   Thanks for the information on parts availability.   While Delrin would be fine, I would really like to find a die cast cylinder assembly if that is even possible.  I looked at your pictures more closely and you certainly have the valve gear covered and they all look pretty good.  On the Bowser valve gear photo, are you using the Delrin cylinder?  It looks a little different with a bit of a mold line down the middle.  Do you know if the Central Valley gear is still available anywhere?   Dale Smith Pacifica, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: oahurailway To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear Thanks Dale for scanning the CV valve gear instruction sheet! You can find parts for the Varney "Dockside" at Bowser on line at; http://www.bowser- trains.com .They make the Delrin cylinder #1-70223, a very nice valve gear kit #3-217 (see my photo album on the 1941 "Dockside"), & a super detail kit #3-218 among other items, as they acquired some of Varney's original tooling. Click on "Manufacturers #s On The Price Lists" at their website. Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2121	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

Gee, Sean, I feel bad enough about trying to tell an engineer how a soldering iron works. Now you ask for advice concerning your vintage Mustang. I did own a couple of them, an early 65 (64 1/2) and a 66. Rather enjoyed the 65, a 289 4 bbl 4spd notch back, but I am a died- in-the-wool Mopar guy (at least so far as the muscle car era) so my suggestion would be.... (message bleeped in the best interest of the group). --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it makes perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of Pitt. earning my engineering degree tell me you are absolutely correct. Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about using such a large object to do detail work on the brass, but if you say little Japanese women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too big for them to lift, then I should be able to give it a go...Thank you. I do believe now, I will be getting one of each. Right now, I have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron that I use my map gas torch to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long and 1/2 - 3/4 inch thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I used it. I think I would want an electric one for this type of work.. > > Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can use on my mustang I have pictured? > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2122	From: Tom	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Skeleton Log Car Plans

Hi,I am looking for some plans to scratchbuild some skelaton log cars. Do any of you have any plans you could send or know where I can find some plans online. Thanks, Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2123	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

Hey John, No worries, I did not take it anyway but as good advice...   I feel the same way about Mopar as you do about Ford! However the Hemi Cuda is rather nice... In the mid-70's my brother had a 69.. Some guy ran a redlight... T boned him... Cracked the block and totaled the car...I was 5 or 6 at the time... I remember it sitting out in front of the house for a couple of weeks... I let all the air out of the tires.... Boy was my brother mad when he had to pump them up with one of those old foot pumps.... Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: Gee, Sean, I feel bad enough about trying to tell an engineer how a soldering iron works. Now you ask for advice concerning your vintage Mustang. I did own a couple of them, an early 65 (64 1/2) and a 66. Rather enjoyed the 65, a 289 4 bbl 4spd notch back, but I am a died- in-the-wool Mopar guy (at least so far as the muscle car era) so my suggestion would be.... (message bleeped in the best interest of the group). --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it makes perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of Pitt. earning my engineering degree tell me you are absolutely correct. Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about using such a large object to do detail work on the brass, but if you say little Japanese women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too big for them to lift, then I should be able to give it a go...Thank you. I do believe now, I will be getting one of each. Right now, I have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron that I use my map gas torch to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long and 1/2 - 3/4 inch thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I used it. I think I would want an electric one for this type of work.. > > Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can use on my mustang I have pictured? > Sean TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2124	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear

ZAMAC disintegration. Happens. Have you contacted Yardbird? > > With all the discussion about the Varney 0-4-0T, I went back to look at an uncompleted kit I had purchased some time ago. It came complete with the Varney parts sheet and the detailed instructions for the Central Valley Valve Gear from 1949. > > The cylinder casting is broken off on one side, which may have happened when the prior owner, following the CV instructions attempted to "Force crosshead guides into square holes in cylinder casting." The break could easily be glued back together with cyanoacrylate, but the cylinder casting seems to be suffering from some kind of metal rot. It seems solid enough, but large cracks are apparent all over it. The body is fine though. > > > Dale Smith > Pacifica, CA >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2125	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

As long as you add 90° grease zerks to the upper control arms when you have them out you'll be able to grease them so they won't squeek. But, then, it's 28 fittings to do my Ford. I suppose after 37 years of driving the same car it's okay to remember things like that. Had a guy call me up last night, asked if I wanted a '51 DeSoto.....for those uninitiated, that's a Mopar....and I just told him to call 1-800-junkyard. Now, if that had been a Ford, it would have been one year NEWER than the one I drive. Never, ever saw an engine so sensitive about timing chain stretch as 273/318/360, even the bigger ones had it. But, to keep it train related, these Varney Docksiders have outlasted all Datsuns. > > Hey John, No worries, I did not take it anyway but as good advice... > > I feel the same way about Mopar as you do about Ford! However the Hemi Cuda is rather nice... In the mid-70's my brother had a 69.. Some guy ran a redlight... T boned him... Cracked the block and totaled the car...I was 5 or 6 at the time... I remember it sitting out in front of the house for a couple of weeks... I let all the air out of the tires.... Boy was my brother mad when he had to pump them up with one of those old foot pumps.... Sean > > John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: > Gee, Sean, I feel bad enough about trying to tell an engineer how a > soldering iron works. Now you ask for advice concerning your vintage > Mustang. I did own a couple of them, an early 65 (64 1/2) and a 66. > Rather enjoyed the 65, a 289 4 bbl 4spd notch back, but I am a died- > in-the-wool Mopar guy (at least so far as the muscle car era) so my > suggestion would be.... (message bleeped in the best interest of the > group). > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> > wrote: > > > > As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it > makes perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of > Pitt. earning my engineering degree tell me you are absolutely > correct. Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about > using such a large object to do detail work on the brass, but if you > say little Japanese women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too > big for them to lift, then I should be able to give it a go...Thank > you. I do believe now, I will be getting one of each. Right now, I > have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron that I use my map gas torch > to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long and 1/2 - 3/4 inch > thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I used it. I think > I would want an electric one for this type of work.. > > > > Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can > use on my mustang I have pictured? > > Sean > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > TV dinner still cooling? > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2126	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

I also have one of the Varney docksides. It runs nicely, but I can't pull anything with it, it has no couplers and I see no real convenient way to mount them.   So what year/model of Ford have you been driving for the last 37 years?  I also had a Ford car once, it was a 1954 Ford convertible.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: As long as you add 90° grease zerks to the upper control arms when you have them out you'll be able to grease them so they won't squeek. But, then, it's 28 fittings to do my Ford. I suppose after 37 years of driving the same car it's okay to remember things like that. Had a guy call me up last night, asked if I wanted a '51 DeSoto.....for those uninitiated, that's a Mopar....and I just told him to call 1-800-junkyard. Now, if that had been a Ford, it would have been one year NEWER than the one I drive. Never, ever saw an engine so sensitive about timing chain stretch as 273/318/360, even the bigger ones had it. But, to keep it train related, these Varney Docksiders have outlasted all Datsuns. > > Hey John, No worries, I did not take it anyway but as good advice... > > I feel the same way about Mopar as you do about Ford! However the Hemi Cuda is rather nice... In the mid-70's my brother had a 69.. Some guy ran a redlight... T boned him... Cracked the block and totaled the car...I was 5 or 6 at the time... I remember it sitting out in front of the house for a couple of weeks... I let all the air out of the tires.... Boy was my brother mad when he had to pump them up with one of those old foot pumps.... Sean > > John Hagen wrote: > Gee, Sean, I feel bad enough about trying to tell an engineer how a > soldering iron works. Now you ask for advice concerning your vintage > Mustang. I did own a couple of them, an early 65 (64 1/2) and a 66. > Rather enjoyed the 65, a 289 4 bbl 4spd notch back, but I am a died- > in-the-wool Mopar guy (at least so far as the muscle car era) so my > suggestion would be.... (message bleeped in the best interest of the > group). > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor > wrote: > > > > As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it > makes perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of > Pitt. earning my engineering degree tell me you are absolutely > correct. Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about > using such a large object to do detail work on the brass, but if you > say little Japanese women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too > big for them to lift, then I should be able to give it a go...Thank > you. I do believe now, I will be getting one of each. Right now, I > have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron that I use my map gas torch > to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long and 1/2 - 3/4 inch > thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I used it. I think > I would want an electric one for this type of work.. > > > > Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can > use on my mustang I have pictured? > > Sean > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > TV dinner still cooling? > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2127	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

I was pondering on this......... I'd hope the front popped out of the boiler, for...... What I'd do is get a wood dowel that was nearly the size of the inside......... For this, I think most any broom handle would be close. I'd want to put the boiler upside down on a wooden surface, like a scrap or a board........ mainly most any pine or one of the softer woods......... If the stack was impracticable to remove, I'd drill an oversized hole to pop that into, making certain that the hole was deeper than the stack was tall. The idea is to use the wood handle or stick along with firm, but brief taps of a hammer on that stick to gradually re-round the top of the boiler while the boiler is upside down...... Do it by 'feel' and bring it back bit by bit instead of trying to make go swiftly. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 20, 2007, at 12:47 AM, curmudgeon wrote: > Be thankful you have something small to work with that has thin > brass. > I had to do a #1 gauge live-steamer that had happened to. > > Seems the tricks posted should do it. > > Is the stack open to the smokebox? > Possibly a small block of wood, a screw, nut and washer on top of > the screw, hole in the wood, inserted, and put a screwdriver down > the stack and back the screw out slowly against the washer..... > >> >> To Anyone who knows... >> >> I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE > THAT >> WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED > DOWN >> INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF >> >> ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2128	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> wrote: > > Ken, > > Thanks for the information on parts availability. While Delrin would be fine, I would really like to find a die cast cylinder assembly if that is even possible. I looked at your pictures more closely and you certainly have the valve gear covered and they all look pretty good. On the Bowser valve gear photo, are you using the Delrin cylinder? It looks a little different with a bit of a mold line down the middle. Do you know if the Central Valley gear is still available anywhere? > > Dale Smith > Pacifica, CA > > The Central Valley valve gear has been out of production for many years Dale. But occasionally they pop up on eBay eg.(#150078456397), as do the Varney "Docksiders" that you can use for parts. The new Bowser manufactured Delrin "Dockside" cylinder though is practically indestructable & retails for only $4.31, & yes the pic of the "Dockside" with the Bowser #3-217 valve gear kit in my 1941 Photo album also has the Bowser Delrin cylinder that's had the black base color painted. Good eye! Mold mark hadn't been dressed. The only problem with the Central Valley valve gear is that all the various rods must be riveted together with tiny rivets by the out of production Penn- Line rivet tool! However even that little tool makes it to eBay every so often. Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2129	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear

Actually, the "lead rot" (my term) can help date the piece! It seems the worst years were around 1950-1954. For some reason during the Korean war good quality Zemac(sp?) (zinc/lead) was hard to find, and it was impurities in the metal that made it brittle. I had bought a THIRD Virginan hopper a few weeks ago on eBay, and when the seller went to pack it, the frame broke, so he sent me my money back. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 12:02 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear ZAMAC disintegration. Happens. Have you contacted Yardbird?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2130	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

>.----- Original Message ----- >.From: sean naylor >...To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:36 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Fix Me Please! >Hello John and Ray, >look... No Caps! >Sorry, I a not YELLING. It is a habit. I work using AutoCAD at least 2-4 >days a week. Also... I list items "occasionally" on eBay... I tend to use >caps there as >well. Reminds me of the good old days back on Fidonet Trains (NOW I'm showing my age <G>). We had a guy who always typed caps, one day he was taken to task for shouting, turned out the poor fellow didn't have a choice, he was dialing up his BBS on a Timex Sinclair! >As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it makes >perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of Pitt. >earning my engineering >degree tell me you are absolutely correct. >Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about using such a large >object to do detail work on the brass, but if >you say little Japanese >women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too big for them to lift, then I >should be able to give it a go...Thank you. I do believe now, I will >be >getting one of each. Right now, I have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron >that I use my map gas torch to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long >and 1/2 - >3/4 inch thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I >used it. I think I would want an electric one for this type of work.. I haven't seen one of the old irons since high school! We had a special little gas oven to heat them up in. >As for the 2-8-8-4, I have dozens of brass smoke box covers and one in >particular picked out that I will use... It needs a little working over to >fit properly. It is >just a matter of getting around to it. I hear Sears is having a sale on "roundtoits" this week. >Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can use on my >mustang I have pictured? >Sean Yeah, trade it for a '64 1/2! (and it's gotta be a ragtop) <G> A few years ago I almost talked myself into a '52 Studabaker pickup, it needed cosmetic work but mechanically it was a daily driver. Now I wish I'd taken it. I don't know if Jason is on this list (one fourth of our "Cream City Traction" club), but I know Mike Bauers is, and he can confirm, when we do shows (most notably "Trainfest" every year) our modules get transported in a '56 jimmy. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2131	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More cars running.

Yup, I also like to RUN my vintage HO cars on my layout. In fact on one of the bigger Operational Layouts I run on, the owner has quite few (Monon) older Varney and Athearn metal cars. Unfortunately, these cars make it to the RIP track a lot more often than the newer ones. But, we don't give up, we keep patching them up as needed with new trucks or wheelsets. Sometimes it is a little more difficult to keep the Kadees on the older ones. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More cars running. Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 22:15:47 -0600 If it makes you happy, there are a couple cars on the layout with "k"s, and even one of my cabeese with the old MDC mechanical knuckles. :-) The operative word here in the group though is "operators". We don't just collect this stuff, we RUN it, and on my layout that means Kadees. (These cars came with Mantua loop & hooks). I also upgrade the trucks and wheelsets if necessary. For the time being these are running on the original Mantua trucks, but if they gibve trouble they WILL be swapped out with newer trucks. I also pride myself on the fact that there is not a plastic wheel on the layout with the possible exception of one or two insulated wheels on a locomotive or two. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Joesten To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More cars running. But with Kadee couplers? and not even the old "K" series??gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] More cars running. Got two more cars running out of the "junque" assortment. Both are 1940's Mantuas. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY _________________________________________________________________ Valentine�s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2132	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

Don...?   TRADE?????      NEVER!!!          Now I am yelling!   Have you seen my Handle? This is my dream car... A 69 Fastback Mustang, with at least a 302, power steering, power disc brakes, nine inch rear end and air conditioning. Did I mention this is what I have?   I had a 1946 GMC Panel truck when I was in highschool. It had a in line 6, a crank, a starter peddal, a hood which folded from the sides and vacume powered wipers, among many other interesting features...   I love the LiL Joe Docksiders though... Sean      Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >.----- Original Message ----- >.From: sean naylor >...To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:36 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Fix Me Please! >Hello John and Ray, >look... No Caps! >Sorry, I a not YELLING. It is a habit. I work using AutoCAD at least 2-4 >days a week. Also... I list items "occasionally" on eBay... I tend to use >caps there as >well. Reminds me of the good old days back on Fidonet Trains (NOW I'm showing my age <G>). We had a guy who always typed caps, one day he was taken to task for shouting, turned out the poor fellow didn't have a choice, he was dialing up his BBS on a Timex Sinclair! >As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it makes >perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of Pitt. >earning my engineering >degree tell me you are absolutely correct. >Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about using such a large >object to do detail work on the brass, but if >you say little Japanese >women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too big for them to lift, then I >should be able to give it a go...Thank you. I do believe now, I will >be >getting one of each. Right now, I have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron >that I use my map gas torch to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long >and 1/2 - >3/4 inch thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I >used it. I think I would want an electric one for this type of work.. I haven't seen one of the old irons since high school! We had a special little gas oven to heat them up in. >As for the 2-8-8-4, I have dozens of brass smoke box covers and one in >particular picked out that I will use... It needs a little working over to >fit properly. It is >just a matter of getting around to it. I hear Sears is having a sale on "roundtoits" this week. >Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can use on my >mustang I have pictured? >Sean Yeah, trade it for a '64 1/2! (and it's gotta be a ragtop) <G> A few years ago I almost talked myself into a '52 Studabaker pickup, it needed cosmetic work but mechanically it was a daily driver. Now I wish I'd taken it. I don't know if Jason is on this list (one fourth of our "Cream City Traction" club), but I know Mike Bauers is, and he can confirm, when we do shows (most notably "Trainfest" every year) our modules get transported in a '56 jimmy. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2133	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Skeleton Log Car Plans

Hey Tom, I have plans for an early globe style Logging Disconnect (logging cars that were basicly trucks with one beam to rest the logs on - obviously you need two of them to haul a log), a Pacific Coast Logging: Comox Log unloader, a boom boat (both are for a more modern operation), an incline tanke car designed to handle the steep grades found on a logging operation, a logging - Company Dining Hall - kind of like a portable mess hall, and a loggig caboose... and a steam powered log loader.  I pulled all these from magazines. I keep them in a file bin under logging... I may have more in the 3-4 foot tall stack of mags I have yet to go through... almost all from the 60's - 40's I will quickly look through them today to see if I have anything... Sean Tom <jodanjackkayla@...> wrote: Hi,I am looking for some plans to scratchbuild some skelaton log cars. Do any of you have any plans you could send or know where I can find some plans online. Thanks, Tom Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2134	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: More Junque

Attachments : Got two more done last night & this morning. The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was another Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof & floor, cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends puzzle me a bit. The UTLX tank is another Manutua, the mate to the Deep Rock car I got from Jack a couple weeks ago. Remember I said in this box there was a Mantua Booster that wasn't even shown in the original auction? After I figured out the goofy wiring (it has a PLASTIC frame, there's brass saddles that the axles ride in, each axle has one brass and one plastic driver. The rear is connected to the motor via the motor mounting screw, the other connects to the screw that holds the boiler on, then there's a wire from the boiler casting to the motor) the d*mn thing runs.! Actually, for only picking up on one wheel each side, it runs pretty darn well! No pics yet, it's in paint, needs couplers and decals (Kadee No. 4's will fit). Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2135	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

Sean, all in fun. One thing I learned is to never seriously insult a guys wife, automobile or locomotives. Speaking of locomotives (Better get back on subjet or we'll incur the wrath of Don), your projects seem to involve switchers or articulateds. Interesting mix. Nice job on the Mantus 2-4-4T. I see you also have a Mantua 0-4-0 (thats the Shifter, the 0-4-0T was the Booster) complete with valve gear. How does it run? My brother got one of those back in '49 or '48. It ran, well, ok for the time without the valve gear, which was extra, but after he and dad put one on, they could never get it to run worth do-do. Finally had to take it off. I got a Mantua Mikado for Christmas in '49 or '50. I was a bit young so dad helped a LOT in putting it together. It ran pretty good. I had that engine for many years before being dumb enough to totally taske it apart for superdetailing, a projet that never got done. The pieces were sold during during the earlier years of being married with young children, no free time and needing cash. It was a real early example, all diecast including the cab, diecast tender with 4 wheel trucks and a really neat, self-aligning box for the worm. It had a rubber drive shaft with metal ends. The ends of the motor and worm shafts were groung to a half- round configuration and the metal drive shaft ends had half-round holes so it would slide onto the shafts. While the rubber tube, which had no curvature to it, was an interference fit on it's ends, the whole assembly was free to slide on the motor and worm shafts. It also had a quite large open-frame motor. I can't remember the model but I think it was a DC-70? 71? Anyway, it was a lot bigger than the motor used in the later TYCO years with the worm on the motor shaft. Ran a lot better too. It was a good puller although not as good as my brothers Varney all diecast, 8 wheel drive with metal spur gears F3. He also had a Lindsey brass diecast switcher, NW2 I think. Their power truck was a real sweet runner. Self contained with a flywheel, it was soooo smooth and would just creep along ever so slowly. Only, with only 4 wheels driven it couldn't pull didley and at 12 volts would probably outrun a Hustler! John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey John, No worries, I did not take it anyway but as good advice... > > I feel the same way about Mopar as you do about Ford! However the Hemi Cuda is rather nice... In the mid-70's my brother had a 69.. Some guy ran a redlight... T boned him... Cracked the block and totaled the car...I was 5 or 6 at the time... I remember it sitting out in front of the house for a couple of weeks... I let all the air out of the tires.... Boy was my brother mad when he had to pump them up with one of those old foot pumps.... Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2136	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > He (my brother) also had a > Lindsey brass diecast switcher, NW2 I think. Their power truck was a > real sweet runner. Self contained with a flywheel, it was soooo smooth > and would just creep along ever so slowly. Only, with only 4 wheels > driven it couldn't pull didley and at 12 volts would probably outrun a > Hustler! Replying to one's own post. Just shows what old age does to ya. Wanted to mention that the Lindsey power truck also was fully equalized. The shell was nicely detailed. And they didn't decompose. I do agree that there seems to be a certain era of production that had the rotting zamac problem. I remember back in the 80's, I think the 80's, I had gone through a lot of trouble to accquire a few diecast Hobbytown ALCO FA shells only to have them start turning into powder a couple of years later. Tick me off.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2137	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!

No worries John, No insult here... The 2-4-4T I picked up about 2.5 years ago and fell in love with it right away... It came in a shifter box which was and still is in a slightly larger box with all the parts he plan to use. It even included the valve gear. The rear truck I threw on, because the one he had had the impurity desease. It fell apart. It was a neat looking truck.. I would love to find another to keep the guys original dream as intact as I can. I would like to finish it and hopfully make the guy happy. He has probabably passed on by now. The only thing I have borrowed from this box is a couple of turned brass handrail stantions. I have since found my stash... Maybe I can post a pic of the truck and if anyone has one that is complete, we can work out a trade...I saved the pieces..   As for the other 0-4-0, I put it together... It came with a bunch of other stuff... Actually, I started from the bare metal unbuilt kit. That was missing parts including EVERYTHING but the chassis/frame and the boiler. I pulled everything else from my vast scrap pile. I even filed off all the casting flashing around all the molded edges, using a jewlers file. The valve gear I found last week on a junk loco I had in a box of mantua switchers. Ipurchased on off of yardbird the day before, hasn't come yet, but it will go on my next project.  It runs like a champ. The tender I also pulled from that box. It has a working tender light and head light. The wires you see plug into each other to power the tender light and can be unplugged to remove the tender for paint or repair.   I think in my stash I have one Mikado simular if not the same as you have described. I know I have seen one with a simular driveshaft and a gearbox, I am not sure about the larger motor.   Later! Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: Sean, all in fun. One thing I learned is to never seriously insult a guys wife, automobile or locomotives. Speaking of locomotives (Better get back on subjet or we'll incur the wrath of Don), your projects seem to involve switchers or articulateds. Interesting mix. Nice job on the Mantus 2-4-4T. I see you also have a Mantua 0-4-0 (thats the Shifter, the 0-4-0T was the Booster) complete with valve gear. How does it run? My brother got one of those back in '49 or '48. It ran, well, ok for the time without the valve gear, which was extra, but after he and dad put one on, they could never get it to run worth do-do. Finally had to take it off. I got a Mantua Mikado for Christmas in '49 or '50. I was a bit young so dad helped a LOT in putting it together. It ran pretty good. I had that engine for many years before being dumb enough to totally taske it apart for superdetailing, a projet that never got done. The pieces were sold during during the earlier years of being married with young children, no free time and needing cash. It was a real early example, all diecast including the cab, diecast tender with 4 wheel trucks and a really neat, self-aligning box for the worm. It had a rubber drive shaft with metal ends. The ends of the motor and worm shafts were groung to a half- round configuration and the metal drive shaft ends had half-round holes so it would slide onto the shafts. While the rubber tube, which had no curvature to it, was an interference fit on it's ends, the whole assembly was free to slide on the motor and worm shafts. It also had a quite large open-frame motor. I can't remember the model but I think it was a DC-70? 71? Anyway, it was a lot bigger than the motor used in the later TYCO years with the worm on the motor shaft. Ran a lot better too. It was a good puller although not as good as my brothers Varney all diecast, 8 wheel drive with metal spur gears F3. He also had a Lindsey brass diecast switcher, NW2 I think. Their power truck was a real sweet runner. Self contained with a flywheel, it was soooo smooth and would just creep along ever so slowly. Only, with only 4 wheels driven it couldn't pull didley and at 12 volts would probably outrun a Hustler! John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey John, No worries, I did not take it anyway but as good advice... > > I feel the same way about Mopar as you do about Ford! However the Hemi Cuda is rather nice... In the mid-70's my brother had a 69.. Some guy ran a redlight... T boned him... Cracked the block and totaled the car...I was 5 or 6 at the time... I remember it sitting out in front of the house for a couple of weeks... I let all the air out of the tires.... Boy was my brother mad when he had to pump them up with one of those old foot pumps.... Sean > Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2138	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque

Attachments : Don D and list: What are the initials and number of the Santa Fe Reefer with the cardstock sides? Sometiimes it is possible to trace the heritage of an old production model, from that. Does sound like a kit that is comprised of parts from two or more manufacturers. Once built, I make up a 3 x 5 index card with all pertinent information about it. On the backside, I list all maintenance and rebuilding records, by date accomplished. I must really get around to cataloging those which remain in boxes, unbuilt. Includes many Varney items. I did find an unbuilt Megow hopper car, B&O as I recall. This is the kit that they featured in their advertising way back in the 1930's. Should be worth something, today. Includes the original box. Cheers.... Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2139	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque

A Booster like yours was my first H-0 locomotive, actually it was a set that included two diecast flatcars, a fourwheel caboose with a metal underframe and plastic body, six 18" pieces of brass flextrack and a cardboard tube that held D cell batteries. All were in kit form. One story I heard that the nylon frame was to conserve metal during the Korean police action. I bought the set in early 1954. Roger Aultman Don Dellmann wrote: > Got two more done last night & this morning. > > The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was another > Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof & floor, > cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends puzzle > me a bit. > > The UTLX tank is another Manutua, the mate to the Deep Rock car I got from > Jack a couple weeks ago. > > Remember I said in this box there was a Mantua Booster that wasn't even > shown in the original auction? After I figured out the goofy wiring (it has > a PLASTIC frame, there's brass saddles that the axles ride in, each axle has > one brass and one plastic driver. The rear is connected to the motor via > the motor mounting screw, the other connects to the screw that holds the > boiler on, then there's a wire from the boiler casting to the motor) the > d*mn thing runs.! Actually, for only picking up on one wheel each side, it > runs pretty darn well! No pics yet, it's in paint, needs couplers and > decals (Kadee No. 4's will fit). > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2140	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque

That sure helps date it.  There were two of the die cast flats in the box too, but no w wheel caboose (although I do have several of them).   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Junque A Booster like yours was my first H-0 locomotive, actually it was a set that included two diecast flatcars, a fourwheel caboose with a metal underframe and plastic body, six 18" pieces of brass flextrack and a cardboard tube that held D cell batteries. All were in kit form. One story I heard that the nylon frame was to conserve metal during the Korean police action. I bought the set in early 1954. Roger Aultman Don Dellmann wrote: > Got two more done last night & this morning. > > The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was another > Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof & floor, > cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends puzzle > me a bit. > > The UTLX tank is another Manutua, the mate to the Deep Rock car I got from > Jack a couple weeks ago. > > Remember I said in this box there was a Mantua Booster that wasn't even > shown in the original auction? After I figured out the goofy wiring (it has > a PLASTIC frame, there's brass saddles that the axles ride in, each axle has > one brass and one plastic driver. The rear is connected to the motor via > the motor mounting screw, the other connects to the screw that holds the > boiler on, then there's a wire from the boiler casting to the motor) the > d*mn thing runs.! Actually, for only picking up on one wheel each side, it > runs pretty darn well! No pics yet, it's in paint, needs couplers and > decals (Kadee No. 4's will fit). > > Don > > don.dellmann@ prodigy.net > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2141	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque

SFRD 21882.  One side features the map, the other side is "Scout" lettering.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: DLeistikow@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Junque Don D and list: What are the initials and number of the Santa Fe Reefer with the cardstock sides? Sometiimes it is possible to trace the heritage of an old production model, from that. Does sound like a kit that is comprised of parts from two or more manufacturers. Once built, I make up a 3 x 5 index card with all pertinent information about it. On the backside, I list all maintenance and rebuilding records, by date accomplished. I must really get around to cataloging those which remain in boxes, unbuilt. Includes many Varney items. I did find an unbuilt Megow hopper car, B&O as I recall. This is the kit that they featured in their advertising way back in the 1930's. Should be worth something, today. Includes the original box. Cheers.... Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2142	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

You might be surprised to know this is still a problem and in the last couple of years Bachmann has had to give some customers replacements for locos made in China that incorporate Mazak/Zamak chasssis frames. The problem is indeed impurities and you may be interested in the following. 'Mazak Disease', known to German modellers as the 'Zinkpest' (zinc pestilence), relates to Mazak (also known as Zamak, pot metal, muck metal and monkey metal), a carefully formulated alloy of zinc, magnesium and copper. Mazak has been used widely since the 1930s not only for models and toys but also for making engineering components, such as clock, telephone and radio parts. Back in the 1950s and 1960s it was used by all model railway manufacturers for chassis and underframes, whilst Trix and Hornby Dublo also used it for locomotive bodies, buildings and so on. Bachmann uses Mazak today for chassis and other components, and no doubt other manufacturers do as well. The material is rigid and robust, whilst it can also take fine detail, making it ideal for die-casting. There are many castings dating back to the 1930s that are as good as the day they were made, and if Mazak were truly as awful as some people say, it would never have been used. But (and it's a big 'but') the purity of the metal used is crucial. Put another way, the critical factor in its successful survival is the care originally taken in the precise mixing of the metals that went into Mazak. Get it right and your Mazak should last forever. In reality the quality control was not perfect in the past and it appears that Bachmann's contractors in China may well be learning this lesson afresh. A chap who many years ago worked for a die-casting firm told me that when the workmen took their smoking breaks, they used to throw the silver paper from their cigarette packets into the ingots 'to add grist to the mill'. If true, this aluminium foil and paper of course added impurities, destroying the careful balance of ingredients. The nett result is the Mazak disease that modellers and collectors dread (it's known technically as intergranular corrosion). This can take as long as 30 to 50 years to appear or as little as 12 months. It turns the metal dry and brittle, often with a white, powdery feel, or else badly distorted. Under these circumstances there is very little you can do. Bachmann does at least recognise the problem and has offered replacements to customers who complain. Never attempt to straighten a Mazak casting by bending or pounding it back to shape; it will almost certainly break into many pieces. Repairing affected parts is seldom possible. Broken parts can sometimes be joined using cyanoacrylate glue (Superglue) or epoxy resin (Araldite and equivalents), although the repaired items may not be able to stand much mechanical stress. Soldering is possible with special fluxes or paste solders (Solder-It paste in the USA) but is not recommended. For vintage models in the 'collector's item' category whitemetal reproduction parts are available in some cases. There is a widely held misconception that Mazak is inherently defective and prone to rotting. This is categorically not the case, even if this is little comfort to people with diseased or damaged models! The name ZAMAK is an acronym of the German names for the alloy's components: Z for Zinc, A for Aluminium, MA for magnesium and K for Kupfer (copper). Other trade names are ZAMAC and MAZAK.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2143	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

It doesn't surprise me at all that is happening to the new $150 paperweights.    Just one MORE reason why I love the vintage stuff.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 1:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" You might be surprised to know this is still a problem and in the last couple of years Bachmann has had to give some customers replacements for locos made in China that incorporate Mazak/Zamak chasssis frames. The problem is indeed impurities and you may be interested in the following. 'Mazak Disease', known to German modellers as the 'Zinkpest' (zinc pestilence), relates to Mazak (also known as Zamak, pot metal, muck metal and monkey metal), a carefully formulated alloy of zinc, magnesium and copper. Mazak has been used widely since the 1930s not only for models and toys but also for making engineering components, such as clock, telephone and radio parts. Back in the 1950s and 1960s it was used by all model railway manufacturers for chassis and underframes, whilst Trix and Hornby Dublo also used it for locomotive bodies, buildings and so on. Bachmann uses Mazak today for chassis and other components, and no doubt other manufacturers do as well. The material is rigid and robust, whilst it can also take fine detail, making it ideal for die-casting. There are many castings dating back to the 1930s that are as good as the day they were made, and if Mazak were truly as awful as some people say, it would never have been used. But (and it's a big 'but') the purity of the metal used is crucial. Put another way, the critical factor in its successful survival is the care originally taken in the precise mixing of the metals that went into Mazak. Get it right and your Mazak should last forever. In reality the quality control was not perfect in the past and it appears that Bachmann's contractors in China may well be learning this lesson afresh. A chap who many years ago worked for a die-casting firm told me that when the workmen took their smoking breaks, they used to throw the silver paper from their cigarette packets into the ingots 'to add grist to the mill'. If true, this aluminium foil and paper of course added impurities, destroying the careful balance of ingredients. The nett result is the Mazak disease that modellers and collectors dread (it's known technically as intergranular corrosion). This can take as long as 30 to 50 years to appear or as little as 12 months. It turns the metal dry and brittle, often with a white, powdery feel, or else badly distorted. Under these circumstances there is very little you can do. Bachmann does at least recognise the problem and has offered replacements to customers who complain. Never attempt to straighten a Mazak casting by bending or pounding it back to shape; it will almost certainly break into many pieces. Repairing affected parts is seldom possible. Broken parts can sometimes be joined using cyanoacrylate glue (Superglue) or epoxy resin (Araldite and equivalents) , although the repaired items may not be able to stand much mechanical stress. Soldering is possible with special fluxes or paste solders (Solder-It paste in the USA) but is not recommended. For vintage models in the 'collector's item' category whitemetal reproduction parts are available in some cases. There is a widely held misconception that Mazak is inherently defective and prone to rotting. This is categorically not the case, even if this is little comfort to people with diseased or damaged models! The name ZAMAK is an acronym of the German names for the alloy's components: Z for Zinc, A for Aluminium, MA for magnesium and K for Kupfer (copper). Other trade names are ZAMAC and MAZAK.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2144	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)" Loren _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2145	From: Tom	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Skeleton Log Car Plans

Thanks Sean, I would be interested in the plans for the steam powered loader. The road I am going to model though used the skeletons, not the disconnects. Thanks a lot. Tom --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Tom, > I have plans for an early globe style Logging Disconnect (logging cars that were basicly trucks with one beam to rest the logs on - obviously you need two of them to haul a log), a Pacific Coast Logging: Comox Log unloader, a boom boat (both are for a more modern operation), an incline tanke car designed to handle the steep grades found on a logging operation, a logging - Company Dining Hall - kind of like a portable mess hall, and a loggig caboose... and a steam powered log loader. I pulled all these from magazines. I keep them in a file bin under logging... I may have more in the 3-4 foot tall stack of mags I have yet to go through... almost all from the 60's - 40's > I will quickly look through them today to see if I have anything... > Sean > > Tom <jodanjackkayla@...> wrote: > Hi,I am looking for some plans to scratchbuild some skelaton log cars. > Do any of you have any plans you could send or know where I can find > some plans online. Thanks, Tom > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2146	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

And with the prices some collector's are paying for "vintage" stuff. I guess the difference is you can have 3 - $50 "vintage" paperweight's instead of 1 - $150 new paperweight..............:-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2147	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

Ah but Don, some of the "vintage" stuff has the same problems..............:-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2148	From: Askerberg	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: My stuff posted

I have posted two versions of the same photo in the files section under AA - Al's vintage stuff. The photo features a Highball combine that I picked up at a recent swap meet in kit form. I assembled it for use as a crew car on our club layout logging branch. I believe the car was manufactured by Model Engineering Works, makers of the die cast Grasse River caboose and log buggies. The combine was rather frustrating to assemble and certainly makes me appreciative of the fine equipment we have available these days. The roof and ends are a single casting, and the ends are slightly splayed outward at the bottoms. I have another partial kit, and that casting has the same fault. Otherwise, the kit as very well engineered. The box car is a fine and well-assembled wood kit of unknown lineage that I also picked up at a swap meet many years ago. If anyone knows what it is, I'd be curious to learn. The locomotive is the Mantua Mogul, a locomotive that I always wanted as a kid and only recently picked up at a swap meet. It is not running at the moment, but it is in good condition needing only a little tuning. The first photo is in color, and the second photo is monochrome showing the train as we would have been more likely to see it published back in the '50s. I hope it brings back some fond memories Regards, Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2149	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] My stuff posted

Al,   Could that box car be a Central Valley .  I only built one CV and it was a reefer with plug doors that did not open, so I would not know if their box car doors did open.  At my link below there are some photos of Rail Chief Passenger car shells.  Don thought some may want to see them.  I just joined this group today and have been enjoying all of the photos.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Askerberg Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:38 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] My stuff posted   I have posted two versions of the same photo in the files section under AA - Al's vintage stuff. The photo features a Highball combine that I picked up at a recent swap meet in kit form. I assembled it for use as a crew car on our club layout logging branch. I believe the car was manufactured by Model Engineering Works, makers of the die cast Grasse River caboose and log buggies. The combine was rather frustrating to assemble and certainly makes me appreciative of the fine equipment we have available these days. The roof and ends are a single casting, and the ends are slightly splayed outward at the bottoms. I have another partial kit, and that casting has the same fault. Otherwise, the kit as very well engineered. The box car is a fine and well-assembled wood kit of unknown lineage that I also picked up at a swap meet many years ago. If anyone knows what it is, I'd be curious to learn. The locomotive is the Mantua Mogul, a locomotive that I always wanted as a kid and only recently picked up at a swap meet. It is not running at the moment, but it is in good condition needing only a little tuning. The first photo is in color, and the second photo is monochrome showing the train as we would have been more likely to see it published back in the '50s. I hope it brings back some fond memories Regards, Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2150	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)" Loren _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us _________________________________________________________________ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2151	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: My stuff posted

Nice photos Al. And the B & W sure does capture the feel of photos from an earlier era. Neat. -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Askerberg <aiberg@...> wrote: > > I have posted two versions of the same photo in the files section > under AA - Al's vintage stuff. The photo features a Highball combine > that I picked up at a recent swap meet in kit form. I assembled it > for use as a crew car on our club layout logging branch. I believe > the car was manufactured by Model Engineering Works, makers of the > die cast Grasse River caboose and log buggies. > > The combine was rather frustrating to assemble and certainly makes me > appreciative of the fine equipment we have available these days. The > roof and ends are a single casting, and the ends are slightly splayed > outward at the bottoms. I have another partial kit, and that casting > has the same fault. Otherwise, the kit as very well engineered. > > The box car is a fine and well-assembled wood kit of unknown lineage > that I also picked up at a swap meet many years ago. If anyone knows > what it is, I'd be curious to learn. > > The locomotive is the Mantua Mogul, a locomotive that I always wanted > as a kid and only recently picked up at a swap meet. It is not > running at the moment, but it is in good condition needing only a > little tuning. > > The first photo is in color, and the second photo is monochrome > showing the train as we would have been more likely to see it > published back in the '50s. > > I hope it brings back some fond memories > > Regards, > > Al Askerberg >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2152	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

Vic,   I had a problem with one or two Penn Line items, the zamac just broke apart.    Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:47 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"   I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua . Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh , NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: " Salt&Pepper Whoknows " <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2153	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

But your chances of repairing the three $50 pieces is a lot better.   Don   ----- Original Message ----- From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" And with the prices some collector's are paying for "vintage" stuff. I guess the difference is you can have 3 - $50 "vintage" paperweight' s instead of 1 - $150 new paperweight. ......... ....:-) Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwme00200000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://imagine- msn.com/messenge r/launch80/ default.aspx? locale=en- us&source= hmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2154	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

But you know what you're getting into.  You're also not being sold a bill of goods by the manufacturer's pushing the latest overpriced "state of the art" model.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Ah but Don, some of the "vintage" stuff has the same problems.... ......... .:-) Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2155	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bitleris To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2156	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque

Don........ It sure could be that the reefer is a Howell Day - Red Ball kit. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Don Dellmann wrote: > Got two more done last night & this morning. > > The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was > another > Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof & > floor, > cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends > puzzle > me a bit. ..............

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2157	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums.    Wobbly913 Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bitleris To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701 Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2158	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I second that!   Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums.    Wobbly913 Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bitleris To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701 Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2159	From: ANDREW A GIRARD JR	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. > > Wobbly913 > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too. > > Don > > I personally think its the choise of amalgamate(s) or binding/mixing agent but how can you know for sure? LATER!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2160	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see now. EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had crumbled. We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good" pieces to put one together. Dave > > I second that! > > Sean > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. > > Wobbly913 > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Victor Bitleris > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > > > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 > > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. > > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together > my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)" > > Loren > > __________________________________________________________ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > > __________________________________________________________ > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your > Live.com page. > http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701 > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never Miss an Email > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! > > > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2161	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear

would that affect the weight balance of the loco--I picture the Dockside going down the track doing wheelies. ----- Original Message ----- From: oahurailway To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:08 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@. ..> wrote: > > Ken, > > Thanks for the information on parts availability. While Delrin would be fine, I would really like to find a die cast cylinder assembly if that is even possible. I looked at your pictures more closely and you certainly have the valve gear covered and they all look pretty good. On the Bowser valve gear photo, are you using the Delrin cylinder? It looks a little different with a bit of a mold line down the middle. Do you know if the Central Valley gear is still available anywhere? > > Dale Smith > Pacifica, CA > > The Central Valley valve gear has been out of production for many years Dale. But occasionally they pop up on eBay eg.(#150078456397) , as do the Varney "Docksiders" that you can use for parts. The new Bowser manufactured Delrin "Dockside" cylinder though is practically indestructable & retails for only $4.31, & yes the pic of the "Dockside" with the Bowser #3-217 valve gear kit in my 1941 Photo album also has the Bowser Delrin cylinder that's had the black base color painted. Good eye! Mold mark hadn't been dressed. The only problem with the Central Valley valve gear is that all the various rods must be riveted together with tiny rivets by the out of production Penn- Line rivet tool! However even that little tool makes it to eBay every so often. Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2162	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque

I consider the Mantua die-cast flatcar to be the transition piece between the older cars with the paper sides and the later ones with plastic bodies--as they had the diecast frame. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Junque That sure helps date it.  There were two of the die cast flats in the box too, but no w wheel caboose (although I do have several of them).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Junque A Booster like yours was my first H-0 locomotive, actually it was a set that included two diecast flatcars, a fourwheel caboose with a metal underframe and plastic body, six 18" pieces of brass flextrack and a cardboard tube that held D cell batteries. All were in kit form. One story I heard that the nylon frame was to conserve metal during the Korean police action. I bought the set in early 1954. Roger Aultman Don Dellmann wrote: > Got two more done last night & this morning. > > The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was another > Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof & floor, > cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends puzzle > me a bit. > > The UTLX tank is another Manutua, the mate to the Deep Rock car I got from > Jack a couple weeks ago. > > Remember I said in this box there was a Mantua Booster that wasn't even > shown in the original auction? After I figured out the goofy wiring (it has > a PLASTIC frame, there's brass saddles that the axles ride in, each axle has > one brass and one plastic driver. The rear is connected to the motor via > the motor mounting screw, the other connects to the screw that holds the > boiler on, then there's a wire from the boiler casting to the motor) the > d*mn thing runs.! Actually, for only picking up on one wheel each side, it > runs pretty darn well! No pics yet, it's in paint, needs couplers and > decals (Kadee No. 4's will fit). > > Don > > don.dellmann@ prodigy.net > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2163	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting....

Every once in a while...doesn't matter which forum, I'm suddenly back on main screen and there is no way to find it again. Okay try again. Athearn dismals. I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles. One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks with no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others in pieces. On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights. One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights, and no plates. None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can imagine is increasing magnetism. On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I can't believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957). I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right. Coupler box clips. Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight. These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused out at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit. Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later. Thanks, guys. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2164	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

if the part has not begun to physically separate, and it will not be under any mechanical strain, I flood the cracks with super glue.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Emmerson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:30 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" You might be surprised to know this is still a problem and in the last couple of years Bachmann has had to give some customers replacements for locos made in China that incorporate Mazak/Zamak chasssis frames. The problem is indeed impurities and you may be interested in the following. 'Mazak Disease', known to German modellers as the 'Zinkpest' (zinc pestilence), relates to Mazak (also known as Zamak, pot metal, muck metal and monkey metal), a carefully formulated alloy of zinc, magnesium and copper. Mazak has been used widely since the 1930s not only for models and toys but also for making engineering components, such as clock, telephone and radio parts. Back in the 1950s and 1960s it was used by all model railway manufacturers for chassis and underframes, whilst Trix and Hornby Dublo also used it for locomotive bodies, buildings and so on. Bachmann uses Mazak today for chassis and other components, and no doubt other manufacturers do as well. The material is rigid and robust, whilst it can also take fine detail, making it ideal for die-casting. There are many castings dating back to the 1930s that are as good as the day they were made, and if Mazak were truly as awful as some people say, it would never have been used. But (and it's a big 'but') the purity of the metal used is crucial. Put another way, the critical factor in its successful survival is the care originally taken in the precise mixing of the metals that went into Mazak. Get it right and your Mazak should last forever. In reality the quality control was not perfect in the past and it appears that Bachmann's contractors in China may well be learning this lesson afresh. A chap who many years ago worked for a die-casting firm told me that when the workmen took their smoking breaks, they used to throw the silver paper from their cigarette packets into the ingots 'to add grist to the mill'. If true, this aluminium foil and paper of course added impurities, destroying the careful balance of ingredients. The nett result is the Mazak disease that modellers and collectors dread (it's known technically as intergranular corrosion). This can take as long as 30 to 50 years to appear or as little as 12 months. It turns the metal dry and brittle, often with a white, powdery feel, or else badly distorted. Under these circumstances there is very little you can do. Bachmann does at least recognise the problem and has offered replacements to customers who complain. Never attempt to straighten a Mazak casting by bending or pounding it back to shape; it will almost certainly break into many pieces. Repairing affected parts is seldom possible. Broken parts can sometimes be joined using cyanoacrylate glue (Superglue) or epoxy resin (Araldite and equivalents) , although the repaired items may not be able to stand much mechanical stress. Soldering is possible with special fluxes or paste solders (Solder-It paste in the USA) but is not recommended. For vintage models in the 'collector's item' category whitemetal reproduction parts are available in some cases. There is a widely held misconception that Mazak is inherently defective and prone to rotting. This is categorically not the case, even if this is little comfort to people with diseased or damaged models! The name ZAMAK is an acronym of the German names for the alloy's components: Z for Zinc, A for Aluminium, MA for magnesium and K for Kupfer (copper). Other trade names are ZAMAC and MAZAK.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2165	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque

Attachments : Mike B: You could be right... I hadn't thought about Red Ball. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2166	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

have it on cylinders and tender body of a Belle-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bitleris To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:46 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2167	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.

My first Athearn F unit, the early one assembled with 2-56 screws, had dummy couplers screwed to post like mounts. Roger Aultman curmudgeon wrote: > Every once in a while...doesn't matter which forum, I'm suddenly > back on main screen and there is no way to find it again. > > > Okay try again. > > Athearn dismals. > > I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles. > One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks with > no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others in > pieces. > > On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the > outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the > double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights. > One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights, and > no plates. > None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can > imagine is increasing magnetism. > > On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen > the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how > they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I can't > believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957). > > I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right. > > Coupler box clips. > Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight. > These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole > for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused out > at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit. > > Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later. > > Thanks, guys. > > Dave > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2168	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.

Okay, probably so. I know we ran these with horn-hooks at one time. There seems to be, for that purpose, a box that screws onto the pad. However, the pad seems to be higher than the ones woth the box cast in. I'll probably have to go measure and confirm height. BTW, I now have an A-B on the shelf, tower drive warbonnets, first time in a LONG time there has been functional Athearn diesels that looked good around here. I gotta get that Varney F-3 painted. Oh, speaking of Varney F-3's, got a plastic A-B set (missing driveshaft still) that when I took the "A" shell off, the horn that is cast on at the centerline can be removed....and 4 holes, 2 per side, are cast partway through from the inside for "proper" horns. Of course, that means filing down the stupid parting line (or add lagging clamps? Joke...) and touching up the paint. Still trying to figure out this driveshaft.......NWSL universal ball ends are too big. The "sockets" are .215"..... Dave > My first Athearn F unit, the early one assembled with 2-56 screws, had > dummy couplers screwed to post like mounts. Roger Aultman > > > > > > curmudgeon wrote: > > Every once in a while...doesn't matter which forum, I'm suddenly > > back on main screen and there is no way to find it again. > > > > > > Okay try again. > > > > Athearn dismals. > > > > I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles. > > One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks with > > no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others in > > pieces. > > > > On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the > > outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the > > double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights. > > One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights, and > > no plates. > > None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can > > imagine is increasing magnetism. > > > > On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen > > the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how > > they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I can't > > believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957). > > > > I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right. > > > > Coupler box clips. > > Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight. > > These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole > > for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused out > > at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit. > > > > Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later. > > > > Thanks, guys. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2169	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: MORE Junque

Attachments : Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these are kits, because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2170	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

s mentioned in a previous post, I had a late 40's Mantua Mikado that I kept for years. It had a diecast cab and the tab that stuck out forwards for the mounting screw that went into the underside of the boiler casting (do I have you confused yet?) did fall off due to zee zamak disease. The rest of the cab, and the whole engine and tender was fine. Between my brother and I, we had the Mikado, a Shifter, a Little Six and a Shark Nose all from the 40's and 50's. I also prosessed at one time or another an unassembled Big Six, ditto Prairie and a 2-6-6- 2T (still have it), all later production. The newest is obvisiously the 2-6-6-2T and it has less diecast percentage wise than any of the rest but it still has a fair amount. None of these engines, other than the Mike's cab had any Zmamk disease. Or, for that matter do my brothers late 40's Varney F3A or B (he still has 'em). John

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2171	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see now. EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had crumbled. We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good" pieces to put one together. Dave > > I second that! > > Sean > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@. ..> wrote: > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. > > Wobbly913 > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Victor Bitleris > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > > > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 > > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. > > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" > > Loren > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/? href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx? wx_action=create& wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your > Live.com page. > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701 > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Never Miss an Email > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2172	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

I suppose the problem may have been somewhat pervasive for a period of time. I have also heard there was some of this with Mantua products as well, but I have never seen it with Mantua. I have quite bit of Mantua cast zamac locomotives, including three Sharknose diesels. I only have 4 cast Varney diesels and see problems with 3 of them. But as to actually crumbling and falling apart, I only had a couple of Varney add on parts pieces do this. I will have to fabricate a set of NW-2 steps from brass I suppose. I saw some on eBay once, but missed getting it. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:57:38 -0500 Vic, I had a problem with one or two Penn Line items, the zamac just broke apart. Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 _____ From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:47 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ <mailto:saltnpepper69%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)" Loren __________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt <http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://sp aces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spac esapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us __________________________________________________________ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live <http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701> com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701 _________________________________________________________________ The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2173	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I sorta collect the metal cranes. I have four that have all good sprung trucks.  I had another that had one good truck. I tried to move the bolster and it fell apart in my hand. As a result I don't let the good trucks touch anything lest they too fall apart. Recently  I bought three brand new trucks still in their boxes, I will eventually put them on other cranes. Just got to avoid putting any pressure on them.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see now. EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had crumbled. We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good" pieces to put one together. Dave > > I second that! > > Sean > > Wobbly913 wrote: > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. > > Wobbly913 > > Don Dellmann wrote: > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Victor Bitleris > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > > > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 > > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. > > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together > my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)" > > Loren > > __________________________________________________________ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > > __________________________________________________________ > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your > Live.com page. > http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701 > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never Miss an Email > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! > > > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2174	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque

Could be.  There WERE two other Red Ball cars in the box.  (The twin hopper I already posted and a 40' flat I'm still working on).   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Junque Don........ It sure could be that the reefer is a Howell Day - Red Ball kit. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Don Dellmann wrote: > Got two more done last night & this morning. > > The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was > another > Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof & > floor, > cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends > puzzle > me a bit. ............ ..

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2175	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I have 3 of the cranes - 1 is falling apart. As for the buckeyes... it is hard to keep them around... even the central valleys I have... frustrating... I have, I think, 2 pairs in brass... I will definately keep those...   Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see now. EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had crumbled. We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good" pieces to put one together. Dave > > I second that! > > Sean > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@. ..> wrote: > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. > > Wobbly913 > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Victor Bitleris > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > > > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 > > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. > > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" > > Loren > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/? href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx? wx_action=create& wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your > Live.com page. > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701 > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Never Miss an Email > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2176	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.

Ok, I dug up my 6 tower drive F7"s.  Two have motors very similar to the older Hi F drives, the other 4 have motors more like the later RDC's. None seem to have any excess metal sticking up off of the motor. Does the extra metal piece seem to serve any purpose?? Is it possibly just stuck to the magnet??   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Every once in a while...doesn't matter which forum, I'm suddenly back on main screen and there is no way to find it again. Okay try again. Athearn dismals. I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles. One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks with no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others in pieces. On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights. One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights, and no plates. None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can imagine is increasing magnetism. On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I can't believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957). I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right. Coupler box clips. Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight. These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused out at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit. Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later. Thanks, guys. Dave Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2177	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

I think I had 2 mantua 0-4-0's this year that fell apart... One complete kit in the box with the sloped back tender... the only things I could save were the motor, rods, drivers (I think), tender trucks, box and the cab. Everything else was shot!   I have a varney I need a frame for.. I thought it was an Old Lady, but I saw a listing of Yardbird's for one and I did not bid, b/c it did not look exactly the same...   Sean... again Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: I suppose the problem may have been somewhat pervasive for a period of time. I have also heard there was some of this with Mantua products as well, but I have never seen it with Mantua. I have quite bit of Mantua cast zamac locomotives, including three Sharknose diesels. I only have 4 cast Varney diesels and see problems with 3 of them. But as to actually crumbling and falling apart, I only had a couple of Varney add on parts pieces do this. I will have to fabricate a set of NW-2 steps from brass I suppose. I saw some on eBay once, but missed getting it. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@verizon. net> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:57:38 -0500 Vic, I had a problem with one or two Penn Line items, the zamac just broke apart. Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 _____ From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:47 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ <mailto:saltnpepper 69%40hotmail. com> hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt. <http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://sp aces.live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us > com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp 0070000001msn/ direct/01/ ?href=http://spaces. live.com/ spac esapi.aspx?wx_ action=create& wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live. <http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701> com/?addTemplate= ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701 ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn. com/tv/globes200 7/?icid=nctaglin e2 Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2178	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

anyone got a spare plastic dummy Varney F3B? I might have an A shell--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these are kits, because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2179	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to turn on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING TO TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these are kits, because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2180	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I have one in the pile--so far as I know it is OK--but recall the one I has as a teenager--got a $15 check for my 15th birthday--bought the crane and some fishing stuff--I had a room over the garage--neighbor's cat used to come up there--liked that dangling hook, and would turn the crane over, thereby dumping all the lines off the sheaves--would take me an hour to re-rig it--back when I could see what I was doing!GJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see now. EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had crumbled. We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good" pieces to put one together. Dave > > I second that! > > Sean > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@. ..> wrote: > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. > > Wobbly913 > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Victor Bitleris > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > > > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 > > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. > > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" > > Loren > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/? href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx? wx_action=create& wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your > Live.com page. > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701 > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Never Miss an Email > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2181	From: Garry Spear	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I have had great success (over a 50 year period) in controlling zink rot with zinc cromate primer.  None of the cars I assembled in the 50's seems to have and problems.  MDC, Athearn tank cars, Red Ball, Laconia, seem th have any problems. For old items newley acquired with problem I strip all paint and paint the castings with ACC, the thin runny type.  Over the last 20 years this seems to stop and further rot. Garry Spear On 1/21/07, Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: I have one in the pile--so far as I know it is OK--but recall the one I has as a teenager--got a $15 check for my 15th birthday--bought the crane and some fishing stuff--I had a room over the garage--neighbor's cat used to come up there--liked that dangling hook, and would turn the crane over, thereby dumping all the lines off the sheaves--would take me an hour to re-rig it--back when I could see what I was doing!GJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see now. EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had crumbled. We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good" pieces to put one together. Dave > > I second that! > > Sean > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. > > Wobbly913 > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Victor Bitleris > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > > > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 > > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. > > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together > my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)" > > Loren > > __________________________________________________________ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > > __________________________________________________________ > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your > Live.com page. > http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701 > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never Miss an Email > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! > > > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2182	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

Hello Garry, How do I get my hands on this ACC? I have heard of it, but never seen it. Thanks, Sean Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> wrote: I have had great success (over a 50 year period) in controlling zink rot with zinc cromate primer.  None of the cars I assembled in the 50's seems to have and problems.  MDC, Athearn tank cars, Red Ball, Laconia, seem th have any problems. For old items newley acquired with problem I strip all paint and paint the castings with ACC, the thin runny type.  Over the last 20 years this seems to stop and further rot. Garry Spear On 1/21/07, Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: I have one in the pile--so far as I know it is OK--but recall the one I has as a teenager--got a $15 check for my 15th birthday--bought the crane and some fishing stuff--I had a room over the garage--neighbor's cat used to come up there--liked that dangling hook, and would turn the crane over, thereby dumping all the lines off the sheaves--would take me an hour to re-rig it--back when I could see what I was doing!GJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see now. EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had crumbled. We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good" pieces to put one together. Dave > > I second that! > > Sean > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@.. .> wrote: > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. > > Wobbly913 > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Victor Bitleris > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > > > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 > > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. > > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" > > Loren > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/? href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx? wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt=en-us > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your > Live.com page. > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701 > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Never Miss an Email > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2183	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > would that affect the weight balance of the loco--I picture the Dockside going down the track doing wheelies. > It doesn't seem to, as the frame & motor have a low center of gravity. However, Varney did make an optional lead boiler weight that increased the overall weight considerably....Ken > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2184	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.

Possibly. Except they are cut to drop right in, same material as the pole pieces, same shine/rust. Puzzled this old grey head. Dave > > Ok, I dug up my 6 tower drive F7"s. Two have motors very similar to the older Hi F drives, the other 4 have motors more like the later RDC's. None seem to have any excess metal sticking up off of the motor. > Does the extra metal piece seem to serve any purpose?? Is it possibly just stuck to the magnet?? > > Wobbly913 > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Every once in a while...doesn't matter which forum, I'm suddenly > back on main screen and there is no way to find it again. > > > Okay try again. > > Athearn dismals. > > I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles. > One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks with > no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others in > pieces. > > On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the > outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the > double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights. > One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights, and > no plates. > None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can > imagine is increasing magnetism. > > On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen > the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how > they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I can't > believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957). > > I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right. > > Coupler box clips. > Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight. > These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole > for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused out > at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit. > > Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later. > > Thanks, guys. > > Dave > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2185	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Athearn GEEP questions

First, this unit was missing most of the handrails. Found a bunch of the stanchions, matched what was on it. I got a full replacement set (super-glued the buggers in this time), and they're different stanchions. The old ones were flattened parallel to the axles on the end with a hole punched through them for the handrail. The new ones are flattened parallel to the rails and rolled over the stanchions. Does the older style date it better than 1971? That's the type of drive we found in the drawings at hoseeker, but only for a U-25 or some such. No weights. I think I like the new ones better. Next, anybody have a junk shell for an Athearn GP-9? My end steps are pretty bad, one corner REALLY bad, I figure if I had one good end I could section it. Color immaterial, except this one (GN) has black pilots and steps. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2186	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: [Fwd: 1954 Mantua]

Attachments : -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2187	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I could be wrong about this, but it seems to me that Mantua Metal Products (Mantua NJ) was the original name of the company, and they were in the metal casting business before entering the model railroad market. So they had considerably more experience with Zamak than other model railroad producers who may or may not have farmed out their production to a local job shop. That would account for Mantua models holding up better than some of the others. Mike John Hagen wrote: > > > s mentioned in a previous post, I had a late 40's Mantua Mikado that I > kept for years. It had a diecast cab and the tab that stuck out > forwards for the mounting screw that went into the underside of the > boiler casting (do I have you confused yet?) did fall off due to zee > zamak disease. The rest of the cab, and the whole engine and tender was > fine. Between my brother and I, we had the Mikado, a Shifter, a Little > Six and a Shark Nose all from the 40's and 50's. I also prosessed at > one time or another an unassembled Big Six, ditto Prairie and a 2-6-6- > 2T (still have it), all later production. The newest is obvisiously the > 2-6-6-2T and it has less diecast percentage wise than any of the rest > but it still has a fair amount. None of these engines, other than the > Mike's cab had any Zmamk disease. Or, for that matter do my brothers > late 40's Varney F3A or B (he still has 'em). > -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@...> Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2188	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote: > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's > problem > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor > sweepings and > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true > that was, > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to > Varney > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking > that Mantua > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have > personally > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or > Mantua. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 > > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC > is..... > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. > > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held > together > my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)" > > Loren

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2189	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

"ACC" is the generic name for good old "super glue" or "Krazy Glue"   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Hello Garry, How do I get my hands on this ACC? I have heard of it, but never seen it. Thanks, Sean Garry Spear <garrettspear@ gmail.com> wrote: I have had great success (over a 50 year period) in controlling zink rot with zinc cromate primer.  None of the cars I assembled in the 50's seems to have and problems.  MDC, Athearn tank cars, Red Ball, Laconia, seem th have any problems. For old items newley acquired with problem I strip all paint and paint the castings with ACC, the thin runny type.  Over the last 20 years this seems to stop and further rot. Garry Spear On 1/21/07, Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: I have one in the pile--so far as I know it is OK--but recall the one I has as a teenager--got a $15 check for my 15th birthday--bought the crane and some fishing stuff--I had a room over the garage--neighbor' s cat used to come up there--liked that dangling hook, and would turn the crane over, thereby dumping all the lines off the sheaves--would take me an hour to re-rig it--back when I could see what I was doing!GJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see now. EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had crumbled. We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good" pieces to put one together. Dave > > I second that! > > Sean > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@.. .> wrote: > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. > > Wobbly913 > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Victor Bitleris > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > > > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 > > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. > > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" > > Loren > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/? href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx? wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt=en-us > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your > Live.com page. > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701 > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Never Miss an Email > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2190	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.

I remember those on a couple Athean motors from the 60's.  I have NO idea why they were there.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.... Ok, I dug up my 6 tower drive F7"s.  Two have motors very similar to the older Hi F drives, the other 4 have motors more like the later RDC's. None seem to have any excess metal sticking up off of the motor. Does the extra metal piece seem to serve any purpose?? Is it possibly just stuck to the magnet??   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Every once in a while...doesn' t matter which forum, I'm suddenly back on main screen and there is no way to find it again. Okay try again. Athearn dismals. I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles. One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks with no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others in pieces. On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights. One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights, and no plates. None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can imagine is increasing magnetism. On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I can't believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957). I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right. Coupler box clips. Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight. These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused out at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit. Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later. Thanks, guys. Dave Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2191	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

OH,   oooppps  I almost started yelling again....   Thanks Don, That is what I have been using... Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: "ACC" is the generic name for good old "super glue" or "Krazy Glue"   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Hello Garry, How do I get my hands on this ACC? I have heard of it, but never seen it. Thanks, Sean Garry Spear <garrettspear@ gmail.com> wrote: I have had great success (over a 50 year period) in controlling zink rot with zinc cromate primer.  None of the cars I assembled in the 50's seems to have and problems.  MDC, Athearn tank cars, Red Ball, Laconia, seem th have any problems. For old items newley acquired with problem I strip all paint and paint the castings with ACC, the thin runny type.  Over the last 20 years this seems to stop and further rot. Garry Spear On 1/21/07, Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: I have one in the pile--so far as I know it is OK--but recall the one I has as a teenager--got a $15 check for my 15th birthday--bought the crane and some fishing stuff--I had a room over the garage--neighbor' s cat used to come up there--liked that dangling hook, and would turn the crane over, thereby dumping all the lines off the sheaves--would take me an hour to re-rig it--back when I could see what I was doing!GJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see now. EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had crumbled. We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good" pieces to put one together. Dave > > I second that! > > Sean > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@.. .> wrote: > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. > > Wobbly913 > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Victor Bitleris > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > > > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 > > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. > > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" > > Loren > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/? href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx? wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt=en-us > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your > Live.com page. > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701 > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Never Miss an Email > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2192	From: busgrouches	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Shay Parts

Hi, I have been lurking on this site for some time. Just recently a friend of mine passed away and I got a lot of model railroad items that might be useful to someone out there in Vintage land. In a box I got parts for a two truck Shay. All the parts are not there. What I do have is the frame with electrical pads in place, minus the motor, metal boiler, plactic cab and tender, parts on a plactic tree and drive shaft from motor to trucks. The trucks, minus one mounting pin. Anyone interested can contact me off list at <busgrouches@...> Will trade for some track maps. Frank Weed busgrouches@... MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2193	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

WOW! I guess I am lucky. I have about 5 of these buggers, one with a cast zamak tender, all of them are in really good shape. I am really reworking the heck out of one of the 0-6-0's to bash it into a Southern A7. I hope it stays in good shape. I accidentally found out that using Tix flux, you can actually solder to it. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:28:11 -0800 (PST) I think I had 2 mantua 0-4-0's this year that fell apart... One complete kit in the box with the sloped back tender... the only things I could save were the motor, rods, drivers (I think), tender trucks, box and the cab. Everything else was shot! I have a varney I need a frame for.. I thought it was an Old Lady, but I saw a listing of Yardbird's for one and I did not bid, b/c it did not look exactly the same... Sean... again Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: I suppose the problem may have been somewhat pervasive for a period of time. I have also heard there was some of this with Mantua products as well, but I have never seen it with Mantua. I have quite bit of Mantua cast zamac locomotives, including three Sharknose diesels. I only have 4 cast Varney diesels and see problems with 3 of them. But as to actually crumbling and falling apart, I only had a couple of Varney add on parts pieces do this. I will have to fabricate a set of NW-2 steps from brass I suppose. I saw some on eBay once, but missed getting it. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:57:38 -0500 Vic, I had a problem with one or two Penn Line items, the zamac just broke apart. Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 _____ From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:47 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ <mailto:saltnpepper69%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)" Loren __________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt <http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://sp aces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spac esapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us __________________________________________________________ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live <http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701> com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701 __________________________________________________________ The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2 --------------------------------- Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. _________________________________________________________________ FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo � buy and sell with people you know http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com?s_cid=Hotmail_tagline_12/06

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2194	From: Garry Spear	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

Super Glue is a brand name for ACC. Instant glue. Hobby Shops, Art supply stores, Drug stores carry this product. My local Hobby Shop, Lansdale, PA, carries two or three different brands. This glue comes in different thicknesses. Gap filling is thick. Other type get thinner. You want the thinest and showest setting available. Keep a bottle of nail polish remove at hand for freeing sticky fingers. The nail polish remover MUST contain acetone! Look at the label; some types of nail polish remover use other solvants to remove nail polish. The acetone is the disolving agent; acetone from the local hardware store is better, but requires more care. I ALWAYS work over newspaper! If there is a problem simply drop the part; let everything harden. The newspaper can be removed and the newspaper will protect the working surface. I offen work in my lap and once droped some glue and glued my pants to my legs. This is how I found out about using nail polish remover. Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2195	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Lead Rot

"Mike Sloane" mikesloane@... mikesloane >I could be wrong about this, but it seems to me that Mantua Metal >Products (Mantua NJ) was the original name of the company, and they were >in the metal casting business before entering the model railroad market. >So they had considerably more experience with Zamak than other model >railroad producers who may or may not have farmed out their production >to a local job shop. That would account for Mantua models holding up >better than some of the others. My first Mantua, a Mike, was purchased used in late '50s and it already had warped running side boards...that was before I was even aware of the "Zinkpest" problems. Within a few years it simply "cracked" into fragments. Conversely, I have a Mantua 4-6-2, purchased in late 60s that won RMCs first kitbashing award in January 1972, that is still whole and operable although it sits in a display case. Oldest and first H0 model I have is (purchased in 1958) a PennLine (now Bowser) Pennsylvania H9, 2-8-0, that is still in prime condition. Other "zamac" locos are some "New One" CNJ 4-6-0s that I dare not even touch. One can see the cracking on the castings. Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2196	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is.. Dave vS. Mike Bauers wrote: I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote: I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)" Loren Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2197	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

the modern-era locos, about 1958-59.  The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is.. Dave vS. Mike Bauers wrote: I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote: I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2198	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

I really can't say exactly when but they made the cab plastic it was a long time ago. I would guess during the early 80's, maybe 70's? --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: > > Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? > I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the > states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can > tell how old it really is.. > Dave vS.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2199	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

HMMM This one may be older than I thought, Label on the box says *#383-070.  Then lists the following operating smokestack, operating headlight Sagami "can" motor  Die-cast metal boiler  Brass bell Metal handrails Lifetime warranty.There is also a Certificate of Authenticity sayinmg that it's a Limited Production Run Number 112.   Even though this was purchased back in 2003 it "languished" at a friends place in Helena MT until last year waiting for a Sound decoder from Soundtraxx, I haven't really run it all that much as my layout is still under construction and on temporary wiring. Must try a Google search on Mantua info. Dave S. Glenn Joesten wrote: the modern-era locos, about 1958-59.  The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is.. Dave vS. Mike Bauers wrote: I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote: I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.5/645 - Release Date: 1/22/2007 4:10 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2200	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

Oops, Glenn caught me with mu memory down. His post came through about 4 minutes after I sent my post. As I sit here scratching my head, I have to agree with Glenn that it was likely late 50's. Like I said, it was a long time ago and ones memory does play tricks at at times. I do know that the tender received 6 wheel trucks real early on, probably by the mid 50's. THrough the years, when all Mantua was Tyco, it really was cheapened. Alas and alack, the way of the world. Sucks at times. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > the modern-era locos, about 1958-59. The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave Slater > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" > > > Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? > I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is.. > Dave vS. > > Mike Bauers wrote: > > I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders. > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2201	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

If it's got the Salami motor I'd say it's 1980's-90's, after Mantua bought the rights to the name back from the Chinese owners of Tyco.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" HMMM This one may be older than I thought, Label on the box says *#383-070.  Then lists the following operating smokestack, operating headlight Sagami "can" motor  Die-cast metal boiler  Brass bell Metal handrails Lifetime warranty.There is also a Certificate of Authenticity sayinmg that it's a Limited Production Run Number 112.   Even though this was purchased back in 2003 it "languished" at a friends place in Helena MT until last year waiting for a Sound decoder from Soundtraxx, I haven't really run it all that much as my layout is still under construction and on temporary wiring. Must try a Google search on Mantua info. Dave S. Glenn Joesten wrote: the modern-era locos, about 1958-59.  The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is.. Dave vS. Mike Bauers wrote: I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote: I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.5/645 - Release Date: 1/22/2007 4:10 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2202	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

John, I got a 0-4-0 switcher in 1961 and it had a plastic cab. Take care.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of John Hagen Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:09 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"   I really can't say exactly when but they made the cab plastic it was a long time ago. I would guess during the early 80's, maybe 70's? --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Dave Slater <daslater@.. .> wrote: > > Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? > I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the > states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can > tell how old it really is.. > Dave vS.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2203	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

Don, It's a SaGami motor, you must have food on your mind, go grab yourself a SAGAMI sandwich..  LOL I looked up Mantua on Google and found this link  http://www.railstop.com/History/Mantua/MantuaHistory.asp   Some interesting reading there and you hit the time line I was thinking about after reading the site.. Dave S. Don Dellmann wrote: If it's got the Salami motor I'd say it's 1980's-90's, after Mantua bought the rights to the name back from the Chinese owners of Tyco.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" HMMM This one may be older than I thought, Label on the box says *#383-070.  Then lists the following operating smokestack, operating headlight Sagami "can" motor  Die-cast metal boiler  Brass bell Metal handrails Lifetime warranty.There is also a Certificate of Authenticity sayinmg that it's a Limited Production Run Number 112.   Even though this was purchased back in 2003 it "languished" at a friends place in Helena MT until last year waiting for a Sound decoder from Soundtraxx, I haven't really run it all that much as my layout is still under construction and on temporary wiring. Must try a Google search on Mantua info. Dave S. Glenn Joesten wrote: the modern-era locos, about 1958-59.  The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is.. Dave vS. Mike Bauers wrote: I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote: I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.5/645 - Release Date: 1/22/2007 4:10 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.5/645 - Release Date: 1/22/2007 4:10 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2204	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Vintage HO Scale Red Ball Kit INFO Wanted #4327

I came up with a old metal and wooden kit made by Red Ball, that I am needing some help on building since it came without any instructions on how to build the kit. The kit is a Red Ball 50 Ft Depressed Center Flat car model #4327. What I am needing is to find someone that has build this kind of kit and if anyone has a set of instructions on how to assessable this wooden and metal kit would you get with me or let me know vie this group. PS: For this was just 1 of 24 wooden and metal HO scale kits, which I came up with today. Would like to learn more as to the list you can find in the File section of this group, look for "HO Scale Train Cars" that I just uploaded this evening. I would like to know since they seem to be over 30+ years old, around the 1970's I estimate what are they worth? Yours Truly, Maryann Obuch DU and OA HO Scale Railway http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2205	From: takefive247	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Mantua coupler question

Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua Bobber caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame as was used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to correct for the taper needed for the loop and hook. Thanks Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2206	From: jay matz	Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

Mantua started using plastic cabs and tenders in 1954-1955. Jay John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: I really can't say exactly when but they made the cab plastic it was a long time ago. I would guess during the early 80's, maybe 70's? --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Dave Slater <daslater@.. .> wrote: > > Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? > I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the > states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can > tell how old it really is.. > Dave vS. Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2207	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

I feel the same way about my Windows system..........  Most of the time I use a different computer that I feel much better about. I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although I do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using the whip and chair on it so often. ;^) Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote: during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to turn on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING TO TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these are kits, because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2208	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

Jeez, you guys. Either get a Mac or stop your whining! You two sound like a couple of Milwaukeens (Where the street car bends the corner around). John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I feel the same way about my Windows system.......... Most of the > time I use a different computer that I feel much better about. > > I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new > computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although I > do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using > the whip and chair on it so often. > > ;^) > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote: > > > during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to turn > > on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING TO > > TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Don Dellmann > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque > > > > Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these are > > kits, > > because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are. > > > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2209	From: William Nielsen	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

Bill, Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit slack, which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits. Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! Regards, Bill Nielsen Oakland Park, FL --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote: > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua Bobber > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame as was > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to correct for > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > Thanks > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2210	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"

the Sagami motor makes it fairly modern. (I used to replace the motor that looked like a Pittman DC-70 with the NWSL "Athearn Re-power kit" that had a 20 x 32 mm Sagami motor with a flywheel on it.  Mounted to a 1/16" x 1/2" strip of K&S brass, it was a direct replacement. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" HMMM This one may be older than I thought, Label on the box says *#383-070.  Then lists the following operating smokestack, operating headlight Sagami "can" motor  Die-cast metal boiler  Brass bell Metal handrails Lifetime warranty.There is also a Certificate of Authenticity sayinmg that it's a Limited Production Run Number 112.   Even though this was purchased back in 2003 it "languished" at a friends place in Helena MT until last year waiting for a Sound decoder from Soundtraxx, I haven't really run it all that much as my layout is still under construction and on temporary wiring. Must try a Google search on Mantua info. Dave S. Glenn Joesten wrote: the modern-era locos, about 1958-59.  The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is.. Dave vS. Mike Bauers wrote: I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote: I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was, but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800 I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is..... Thank you, Mr. Emmerson. You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this. There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)" Loren Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.5/645 - Release Date: 1/22/2007 4:10 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2211	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

I have a series of the early Mantua 0-4-0 switchers.  First was the "Goat"--camelback.  Then the "Busy Bee" side tanker. This one eventually became the "Booster" when the change to die cast came about. Very short-lived was the "Mighty Mite", with tender, that became the "Shifter". Cab on this one was the die cast version of the one on the "Shifter" and "Big Six"  Both used parts in common with the "Goat" Change came about in the early fifties. Would have to research the ads in MR.    The metal old time passenger cars apparently continued into the Korean War era--but material changed from brass to tin plate, which didn't take the stamping of board detail as well.  Same era saw Atlas' flextrack with steel rail.   gj   ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: RE: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" John, I got a 0-4-0 switcher in 1961 and it had a plastic cab. Take care. Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of John Hagen Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:09 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot" I really can't say exactly when but they made the cab plastic it was a long time ago. I would guess during the early 80's, maybe 70's? --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Dave Slater <daslater@.. .> wrote: > > Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic???? > I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the > states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can > tell how old it really is.. > Dave vS.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2212	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage rolling stock. I used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications. They are not the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't imagine being a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has smaller fingers, better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need to find a kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when using these. These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure proper insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have never had a problem personally, but heard you could have a short when using these. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000 Bill, Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit slack, which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits. Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! Regards, Bill Nielsen Oakland Park, FL --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote: > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua Bobber > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame as was > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to correct for > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > Thanks > Bill > _________________________________________________________________ The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2213	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

Back then, what we now call the #4 was the only one they made.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: William Nielsen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 10:02 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question Bill, Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit slack, which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits. Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft gear, closer-to-scale- profile couplers like they use on their currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! Regards, Bill Nielsen Oakland Park, FL --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "takefive247" <takefive@.. .> wrote: > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua Bobber > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame as was > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to correct for > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > Thanks > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2214	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side only. They need to ALL be insulated on the same side! And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what isn't can be a trip. We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult. Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get all the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 old ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early metal Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box touches the frame. Dave > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage rolling stock. I > used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications. They are not > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't imagine being > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has smaller fingers, > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need to find a > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when using these. > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure proper > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have never had a > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when using these. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000 > > Bill, > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit slack, > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits. > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! > > Regards, > Bill Nielsen > Oakland Park, FL > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> > wrote: > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua > Bobber > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame > as was > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to > correct for > > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > > > Thanks > > Bill > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2215	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

Actually Mike HAS a Mac (and he still has an Amiga too.) Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque > Jeez, you guys. Either get a Mac or stop your whining! You two sound > like a couple of Milwaukeens (Where the street car bends the corner > around). > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> I feel the same way about my Windows system.......... Most of the >> time I use a different computer that I feel much better about. >> >> I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new >> computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although > I >> do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using >> the whip and chair on it so often. >> >> ;^) >> >> Best to ya' >> Mike Bauers >> Milwaukee Wi, USA >> >> >> On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote: >> >> > during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to > turn >> > on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING > TO >> > TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it. gj >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Don Dellmann >> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque >> > >> > Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these > are >> > kits, >> > because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are. >> > >> > Don >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2216	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with metal wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several cars with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left wheels grounded--Instant short on coupling! ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side only. They need to ALL be insulated on the same side! And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what isn't can be a trip. We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult. Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get all the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 old ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early metal Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box touches the frame. Dave > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage rolling stock. I > used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications. They are not > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't imagine being > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has smaller fingers, > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need to find a > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when using these. > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure proper > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have never had a > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when using these. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@.. .> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000 > > Bill, > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit slack, > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits. > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft > gear, closer-to-scale- profile couplers like they use on their > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! > > Regards, > Bill Nielsen > Oakland Park, FL > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> > wrote: > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua > Bobber > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame > as was > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to > correct for > > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > > > Thanks > > Bill > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. > http://tv.msn. com/tv/globes200 7/?icid=nctaglin e2 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2217	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

How about a "BananaPCJr.6000" (Remember the kid in "Bloom County"? ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque Actually Mike HAS a Mac (and he still has an Amiga too.) Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@yahoo. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque > Jeez, you guys. Either get a Mac or stop your whining! You two sound > like a couple of Milwaukeens (Where the street car bends the corner > around). > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@ ...> wrote: >> >> I feel the same way about my Windows system...... .... Most of the >> time I use a different computer that I feel much better about. >> >> I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new >> computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although > I >> do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using >> the whip and chair on it so often. >> >> ;^) >> >> Best to ya' >> Mike Bauers >> Milwaukee Wi, USA >> >> >> On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote: >> >> > during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to > turn >> > on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING > TO >> > TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it. gj >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Don Dellmann >> > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >> > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque >> > >> > Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these > are >> > kits, >> > because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are. >> > >> > Don >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2218	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides of the truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the box I'd know) and one at the "front". I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on them when I gave up. > > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with metal wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several cars with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left wheels grounded--Instant short on coupling! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side only. > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side! > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what isn't can > be a trip. > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult. > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get all > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 old > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early metal > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box touches > the frame. > > Dave > > > > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage rolling > stock. I > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications. > They are not > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't > imagine being > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has > smaller fingers, > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need to > find a > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when using > these. > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure > proper > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have > never had a > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when using > these. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@> > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000 > > > > Bill, > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit > slack, > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits. > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft > > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! > > > > Regards, > > Bill Nielsen > > Oakland Park, FL > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua > > Bobber > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame > > as was > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to > > correct for > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Bill > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the > scoop. > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2 > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2219	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

Hey Guys! I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2220	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged. ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? Hey Guys! I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2221	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

My younger brother still has an Atari 800 XL... Dave S. Don Dellmann wrote: Actually Mike HAS a Mac (and he still has an Amiga too.) Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque Jeez, you guys. Either get a Mac or stop your whining! You two sound like a couple of Milwaukeens (Where the street car bends the corner around). John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: I feel the same way about my Windows system.......... Most of the time I use a different computer that I feel much better about. I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although I do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using the whip and chair on it so often. ;^) Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote: during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to turn on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING TO TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these are kits, because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are. Don Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2222	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

Most of the Scale Craft cars I have seen (O and OO) had axles sort of like the present-day Athearn diesels--short stub axles with insulating tube between.  Bolsters were a block of Bakelite.  So they were effectively fully insulated. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides of the truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the box I'd know) and one at the "front". I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on them when I gave up. > > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with metal wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several cars with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left wheels grounded--Instant short on coupling! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side only. > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side! > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what isn't can > be a trip. > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult. > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get all > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 old > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early metal > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box touches > the frame. > > Dave > > > > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage rolling > stock. I > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications. > They are not > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't > imagine being > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has > smaller fingers, > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need to > find a > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when using > these. > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure > proper > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have > never had a > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when using > these. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@> > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000 > > > > Bill, > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit > slack, > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits. > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft > > gear, closer-to-scale- profile couplers like they use on their > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! > > > > Regards, > > Bill Nielsen > > Oakland Park, FL > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua > > Bobber > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame > > as was > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to > > correct for > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Bill > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the > scoop. > > http://tv.msn. com/tv/globes200 7/?icid=nctaglin e2 > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2223	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

I just lloked it over and I think the motor is not original. It has KMT, which this guy seemed to use on several of his pieces, including some varney. Also, any ideas on restoring it? Does anyone have any old instructions i can get a copy of? I would love to add this to one of may many projects..Oh wait...! I think I just did! Sean a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hey Guys! I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. Thanks, Sean Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2224	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged. ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? Hey Guys! I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. Thanks, Sean Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2225	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Old-Rare-Obscure

Attachments : Going through the box I've been working out of the last week, at first I thought this was another Comet (remember AHC's "15 cars in a bag $ 3.99?) . When I started to work on it though I discovered an interesting mix, die cast floor, plastic ends and roof, and cardstock sides! I'd heard of them, but had never before seen a "Lehigh" kit. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2226	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

Without all the motors and gears and rigging, the body castings look an awful lot like my Red Ball.  There's a photo in my "Silver Streak" folder, it's there because until I get the rigging replaced it can't be uncoupled from my Silver Streak crane tender :-)  I could send you a better picture if you wanted.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged. ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? Hey Guys! I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. Thanks, Sean Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2227	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

Myu older brother stil has an abacus, the kind with beads. He claims it has never froze up and never needed to be restarted. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: > > My younger brother still has an Atari 800 XL... > Dave S. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2228	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

Yeah, some were (and I was picking them up wherever possible), some were NOT insulated at all! They were for the outside-third-rail crowd (including drivers!). I have a flatcar on the layout in the basement full of those non- insulated, cast pot-metal wheelsets with all the ribs on the back! If they had the bakelite truck bolster, no problem. Buy, most of mine have the cast center bolsters. I know nobody believes me......and I hate to go dig them out and take a picture...but, I think I have a big box of spare trucks. The problem with the bakelite bolsters is they are drilled with a brass "nail" driven into each end, and over time, crack, allowing the pin to come out, sideframe to drift out, axles to come out of the journals, and drop the whole mess right there. Held to the body with a long brass nail and a hole drolled through the end, and a cotter key. I used to keep all the leftover bits from carburettor rebuilds to get those small cotter keys. Dave > > Most of the Scale Craft cars I have seen (O and OO) had axles sort of like the present-day Athearn diesels--short stub axles with insulating tube between. Bolsters were a block of Bakelite. So they were effectively fully insulated. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:14 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides of the > truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the box I'd > know) and one at the "front". > > I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on them > when I gave up. > > > > > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with metal > wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several cars > with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left wheels > grounded--Instant short on coupling! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > > > > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side only. > > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side! > > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what isn't > can > > be a trip. > > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even > > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult. > > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get > all > > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 old > > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early > metal > > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box > touches > > the frame. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage > rolling > > stock. I > > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications. > > They are not > > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't > > imagine being > > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has > > smaller fingers, > > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need > to > > find a > > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when > using > > these. > > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure > > proper > > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have > > never had a > > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when > using > > these. > > > > > > Vic Bitleris > > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@> > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000 > > > > > > Bill, > > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I > > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one > > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just > > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced > > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands > didn't > > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused > > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled > > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to > limit > > slack, > > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I > > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car > kits. > > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft > > > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their > > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt > > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! > > > > > > Regards, > > > Bill Nielsen > > > Oakland Park, FL > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua > > > Bobber > > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame > > > as was > > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to > > > correct for > > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all > the > > scoop. > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2 > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2229	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

Hey Don, If it would not be too much trouble, I would shure love to see the pic. I could not seem to find it. Thanks, Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Without all the motors and gears and rigging, the body castings look an awful lot like my Red Ball.  There's a photo in my "Silver Streak" folder, it's there because until I get the rigging replaced it can't be uncoupled from my Silver Streak crane tender :-)  I could send you a better picture if you wanted.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged. ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? Hey Guys! I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. Thanks, Sean Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2230	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

I can't believe I mis-spelled sure...! sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hey Don, If it would not be too much trouble, I would shure love to see the pic. I could not seem to find it. Thanks, Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: Without all the motors and gears and rigging, the body castings look an awful lot like my Red Ball.  There's a photo in my "Silver Streak" folder, it's there because until I get the rigging replaced it can't be uncoupled from my Silver Streak crane tender :-)  I could send you a better picture if you wanted.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged. ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? Hey Guys! I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. Thanks, Sean Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2231	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

LOL Dave S. John Hagen wrote: Myu older brother stil has an abacus, the kind with beads. He claims it has never froze up and never needed to be restarted. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: My younger brother still has an Atari 800 XL... Dave S. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2232	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

Tell him to get modern- a Keuffel & Essel "slip stick" (slide rule.)   John Barlow Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: LOL Dave S. John Hagen wrote: Myu older brother stil has an abacus, the kind with beads. He claims it has never froze up and never needed to be restarted. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: My younger brother still has an Atari 800 XL... Dave S. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2233	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

My computer is even older than the abacus............. And when I get up to 10, I have to take my shoes & socks off to get to 20. Over that becomes a matter of ingenuity. "the old guy in Beaverton.............:-) _________________________________________________________________ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2234	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

Attachments : The frame base looks like the Redball crane as Don has mentioned, picture attached of the one I built in the 60's. Roger Aultman sean naylor wrote: > No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab > shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock > work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and > all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which > switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to > all be there... Sean > > Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: > > without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when > properly rigged. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: a69mustang4me <mailto:a69mustang4me@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? > > Hey Guys! > I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully > functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics > in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. > Thanks, > Sean > > > ? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your > question on Yahoo! Answers > <http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx>. > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2235	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

I know how to get to 21... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: > > My computer is even older than the abacus............. > And when I get up to 10, I have to take my shoes & socks off to get to 20. > Over that becomes a matter of ingenuity. > > "the old guy in Beaverton.............:-) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en- us&source=hmtagline >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2236	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

I don't know. seems pretty high tech for him. Actually I had forgotten all about them things. I went to school back when they taught you how to use a slide rule and I got to be rather proficient at it. My favorite caliper has a vernier scale on it (yes, I have one with a dial indicator too). Unless you damage it somehow, and you almost have to purposely damage it, it will never lose it's accuracy. I got it back in 1964 for about $25.00, not cheap in those days. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Tell him to get modern- a Keuffel & Essel "slip stick" (slide rule.) > > John Barlow > > Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: > LOL > Dave S. > > John Hagen wrote: > Myu older brother stil has an abacus, the kind with beads. He claims it has never froze up and never needed to be restarted. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2237	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: How rare are wooden & metal kits?

I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2238	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?

Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@...). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels.com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpuff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse.com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@...> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2239	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?

No wrath about ebay, but a lot of transactions occur there and it is a good place to check the market on things.  I also go to train shows from time to time and, on average, I think sellers ask for a little more than you can typically get the same thing on ebay.  Even on ebay, some sellers that are in the business seem to ask for, and get, more for things than the rest of us great unwashed.   Some of my own purchases the last few years were:   Athearn Metal Box Car Kit, HO, NP, New  $15.50 Athearn metal State of Maine Box Car Kit , HO, New  $33.00 (State of Maine being a little more desirable than some others) Athearn metal Western Pacific Box Car Kit, HO, New  $20.51   The last 30 days of ebay shows:   A number of Silver Streak kits mainly in the range of about $10 to $20 with one at about $25 and one at about $27.   Ulrich seemed to be about the same story but with many hovering toward the $10 end of things but a few that were higher.   Roundhouse metal freight car kits seemed predominantly an $11 to $17 range.   Red Ball kits seem to pull a little more money on average and had several that were over $30 but most under.  One said $50 but it was for five already built.   Ye Old Huff & Puff also seemed to pull a little more money on average with quite a few in the $20 to $30 range.  (I noticed a "Hommer Climax" engine kit for  $66.51 - you see some interesting things if you start poking around in ebay.)   Quality Craft seems a similar range and there was even a well hole flat car probably like the one on your list (except it was NYC) that sold for $17.02 (item 150080070691).   I couldn't find any wood/metal NMRA kits but there were a lot of plastic ones (of course) almost all $10 or less with one at $51.00   But you never know if one of the things you have has extra interest for some reason.   If I had to make a wild guess, I would say perhaps $15 average for what you have with a couple at $30.  That would be $390 if selling on ebay.  And that could be optimistic.  But I think it is safe to say they are very easily worth double what you paid for them.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 1:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2240	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

Hey Roger, Thanks for the pic. I saved it in the same file as mine, I flapped back and forth between the two and I think I agree... So now, how did it get to be functional? I saw one once before on ebay, but I thought it was all brass. (I might be wrong though). Thanks, Sean Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: The frame base looks like the Redball crane as Don has mentioned, picture attached of the one I built in the 60's. Roger Aultman sean naylor wrote: > No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab > shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock > work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and > all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which > switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to > all be there... Sean > > Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: > > without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when > properly rigged. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: a69mustang4me <mailto:a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? > > Hey Guys! > I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully > functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics > in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. > Thanks, > Sean > > > ? > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your > question on Yahoo! Answers > <http://answers. yahoo.com/ ;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbG NhMGE3BF9TAzM5Nj U0NTEwOARfcwMzOT Y1NDUxMDMEc2VjA2 1haWxfdGFnbGluZQ RzbGsDbWFpbF90YW cx>. > -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/ Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2241	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

John! Carefull, this is a "family" list" <G> Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque >I know how to get to 21... > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" > <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: >> >> My computer is even older than the abacus............. >> And when I get up to 10, I have to take my shoes & socks off to get > to 20. >> Over that becomes a matter of ingenuity. >> >> "the old guy in Beaverton.............:-) >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/? > href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en- > us&source=hmtagline >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2242	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?

You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector";s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@...). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels.com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpuff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse.com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@...> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2243	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

Attachments : Here's some pics of my Red Ball, compare them to yours.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? Hey Don, If it would not be too much trouble, I would shure love to see the pic. I could not seem to find it. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2244	From: takefive247	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

Thanks guys. I did use the #5 but #4 may have been a better choice. Thought there might be a dirrect replacement. I never gave a thought to the shorting situation. Never had that problem. Guess I better rethink things a bit, now that I am changing to metal wheel sets and couplers. I was under the impression that most replacement wheel sets where insulated from each other and the axle. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Yeah, some were (and I was picking them up wherever possible), some > were NOT insulated at all! > They were for the outside-third-rail crowd (including drivers!). > I have a flatcar on the layout in the basement full of those non- > insulated, cast pot-metal wheelsets with all the ribs on the back! > If they had the bakelite truck bolster, no problem. Buy, most of > mine have the cast center bolsters. > I know nobody believes me......and I hate to go dig them out and > take a picture...but, I think I have a big box of spare trucks. > The problem with the bakelite bolsters is they are drilled with a > brass "nail" driven into each end, and over time, crack, allowing > the pin to come out, sideframe to drift out, axles to come out of > the journals, and drop the whole mess right there. > Held to the body with a long brass nail and a hole drolled through > the end, and a cotter key. > I used to keep all the leftover bits from carburettor rebuilds to > get those small cotter keys. > > Dave > > > > Most of the Scale Craft cars I have seen (O and OO) had axles sort > of like the present-day Athearn diesels--short stub axles with > insulating tube between. Bolsters were a block of Bakelite. So > they were effectively fully insulated. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:14 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > > > > My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides of > the > > truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the box > I'd > > know) and one at the "front". > > > > I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on > them > > when I gave up. > > > > > > > > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with > metal > > wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several > cars > > with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left > wheels > > grounded--Instant short on coupling! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: curmudgeon > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > > > > > > > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side > only. > > > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side! > > > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what > isn't > > can > > > be a trip. > > > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even > > > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult. > > > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get > > all > > > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 > old > > > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early > > metal > > > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box > > touches > > > the frame. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage > > rolling > > > stock. I > > > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other > applications. > > > They are not > > > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I > can't > > > imagine being > > > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has > > > smaller fingers, > > > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I > need > > to > > > find a > > > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when > > using > > > these. > > > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to > ensure > > > proper > > > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I > have > > > never had a > > > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when > > using > > > these. > > > > > > > > Vic Bitleris > > > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@> > > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000 > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I > > > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one > > > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just > > > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company > produced > > > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands > > didn't > > > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that > caused > > > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled > > > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to > > limit > > > slack, > > > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I > > > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car > > kits. > > > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow > draft > > > > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their > > > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to > adapt > > > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Bill Nielsen > > > > Oakland Park, FL > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua > > > > Bobber > > > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same > frame > > > > as was > > > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to > > > > correct for > > > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get > all > > the > > > scoop. > > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2 > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2245	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &

Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2246	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?

Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you can pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several of these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeastern cars as I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course one likes to build these. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:10:21 -0600 You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's. To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows. I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each. The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40. The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector";s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have. Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built. Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think. As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't). Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann, To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live. Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver. Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@...). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels.com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood." Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpuff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat. One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse.com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal. I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today. John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@...> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann. DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. _________________________________________________________________ Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into something more. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2247	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

For sure Kadee wheelsets are, they use a plastic (Delrin ?) axle. I cannot remember if the P2K wheelsets do or not. But those are the brands I primarily use for replacements. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "takefive247" <takefive@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:05:16 -0000 Thanks guys. I did use the #5 but #4 may have been a better choice. Thought there might be a dirrect replacement. I never gave a thought to the shorting situation. Never had that problem. Guess I better rethink things a bit, now that I am changing to metal wheel sets and couplers. I was under the impression that most replacement wheel sets where insulated from each other and the axle. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Yeah, some were (and I was picking them up wherever possible), some > were NOT insulated at all! > They were for the outside-third-rail crowd (including drivers!). > I have a flatcar on the layout in the basement full of those non- > insulated, cast pot-metal wheelsets with all the ribs on the back! > If they had the bakelite truck bolster, no problem. Buy, most of > mine have the cast center bolsters. > I know nobody believes me......and I hate to go dig them out and > take a picture...but, I think I have a big box of spare trucks. > The problem with the bakelite bolsters is they are drilled with a > brass "nail" driven into each end, and over time, crack, allowing > the pin to come out, sideframe to drift out, axles to come out of > the journals, and drop the whole mess right there. > Held to the body with a long brass nail and a hole drolled through > the end, and a cotter key. > I used to keep all the leftover bits from carburettor rebuilds to > get those small cotter keys. > > Dave > > > > Most of the Scale Craft cars I have seen (O and OO) had axles sort > of like the present-day Athearn diesels--short stub axles with > insulating tube between. Bolsters were a block of Bakelite. So > they were effectively fully insulated. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:14 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > > > > My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides of > the > > truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the box > I'd > > know) and one at the "front". > > > > I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on > them > > when I gave up. > > > > > > > > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with > metal > > wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several > cars > > with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left > wheels > > grounded--Instant short on coupling! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: curmudgeon > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > > > > > > > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side > only. > > > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side! > > > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what > isn't > > can > > > be a trip. > > > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even > > > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult. > > > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get > > all > > > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 > old > > > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early > > metal > > > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box > > touches > > > the frame. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage > > rolling > > > stock. I > > > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other > applications. > > > They are not > > > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I > can't > > > imagine being > > > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has > > > smaller fingers, > > > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I > need > > to > > > find a > > > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when > > using > > > these. > > > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to > ensure > > > proper > > > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I > have > > > never had a > > > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when > > using > > > these. > > > > > > > > Vic Bitleris > > > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@> > > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000 > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I > > > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one > > > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just > > > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company > produced > > > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands > > didn't > > > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that > caused > > > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled > > > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to > > limit > > > slack, > > > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I > > > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car > > kits. > > > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow > draft > > > > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their > > > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to > adapt > > > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Bill Nielsen > > > > Oakland Park, FL > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua > > > > Bobber > > > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same > frame > > > > as was > > > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to > > > > correct for > > > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get > all > > the > > > scoop. > > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2 > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2248	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?

Attachments : ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you > can > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several > of > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeastern cars > as > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course > one > likes to build these. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G> Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2249	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question

I use a lot of intermountains, and I believe they are insulated one side only. If you look close, you'll see one end of the axle has a tiny black sleeve between it and the wheel. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:52 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > For sure Kadee wheelsets are, they use a plastic (Delrin ?) axle. I > cannot > remember if the P2K wheelsets do or not. But those are the brands I > primarily use for replacements. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "takefive247" <takefive@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:05:16 -0000 > > Thanks guys. > I did use the #5 but #4 may have been a better choice. Thought > there might be a dirrect replacement. > I never gave a thought to the shorting situation. Never had that > problem. Guess I better rethink things a bit, now that I am changing > to metal wheel sets and couplers. I was under the impression that > most replacement wheel sets where insulated from each other and the > axle. > Bill > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > wrote: > > > > Yeah, some were (and I was picking them up wherever possible), > some > > were NOT insulated at all! > > They were for the outside-third-rail crowd (including drivers!). > > I have a flatcar on the layout in the basement full of those non- > > insulated, cast pot-metal wheelsets with all the ribs on the back! > > If they had the bakelite truck bolster, no problem. Buy, most of > > mine have the cast center bolsters. > > I know nobody believes me......and I hate to go dig them out and > > take a picture...but, I think I have a big box of spare trucks. > > The problem with the bakelite bolsters is they are drilled with a > > brass "nail" driven into each end, and over time, crack, allowing > > the pin to come out, sideframe to drift out, axles to come out of > > the journals, and drop the whole mess right there. > > Held to the body with a long brass nail and a hole drolled through > > the end, and a cotter key. > > I used to keep all the leftover bits from carburettor rebuilds to > > get those small cotter keys. > > > > Dave > > > > > > Most of the Scale Craft cars I have seen (O and OO) had axles > sort > > of like the present-day Athearn diesels--short stub axles with > > insulating tube between. Bolsters were a block of Bakelite. So > > they were effectively fully insulated. gj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: curmudgeon > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:14 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > > > > > > > My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides > of > > the > > > truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the > box > > I'd > > > know) and one at the "front". > > > > > > I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on > > them > > > when I gave up. > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with > > metal > > > wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several > > cars > > > with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left > > wheels > > > grounded--Instant short on coupling! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: curmudgeon > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > > > > > > > > > > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side > > only. > > > > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side! > > > > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what > > isn't > > > can > > > > be a trip. > > > > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even > > > > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult. > > > > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR > get > > > all > > > > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 > > old > > > > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early > > > metal > > > > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box > > > touches > > > > the frame. > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage > > > rolling > > > > stock. I > > > > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other > > applications. > > > > They are not > > > > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I > > can't > > > > imagine being > > > > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid > has > > > > smaller fingers, > > > > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I > > need > > > to > > > > find a > > > > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when > > > using > > > > these. > > > > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to > > ensure > > > > proper > > > > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I > > have > > > > never had a > > > > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when > > > using > > > > these. > > > > > > > > > > Vic Bitleris > > > > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@> > > > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question > > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I > > > > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one > > > > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just > > > > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company > > produced > > > > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different > brands > > > didn't > > > > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that > > caused > > > > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a > coiled > > > > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to > > > limit > > > > slack, > > > > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I > > > > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging > car > > > kits. > > > > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow > > draft > > > > > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on > their > > > > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to > > adapt > > > > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know! > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Bill Nielsen > > > > > Oakland Park, FL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua > > > > > Bobber > > > > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same > > frame > > > > > as was > > > > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to > > > > > correct for > > > > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get > > all > > > the > > > > scoop. > > > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2250	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &

I wasn't sure, because word on the web about a year ago was that the owner was wanting to retire and looking for someone to take over the line.    That brings up one of the REAL reasons you don't see a lot of craftsman type kits anymore, not so much that there isn't a market, but that there aren't any younger people willing to take over a business that, let's face it, is more of a "labor of love" than a money-making proposition.    Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2251	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

You mean I can't count my nose? --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > John! > > Carefull, this is a "family" list" <G> > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:12 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque > > > >I know how to get to 21... > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" > > <saltnpepper69@> wrote: > >> > >> My computer is even older than the abacus............. > >> And when I get up to 10, I have to take my shoes & socks off to get > > to 20. > >> Over that becomes a matter of ingenuity. > >> > >> "the old guy in Beaverton.............:-) > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger > >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/? > > href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx? locale=en- > > us&source=hmtagline > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2252	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?

I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o) Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you > can > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several > of > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeastern cars > as > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course > one > likes to build these. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G> Don << MILW451600.jpg >> _________________________________________________________________ From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards� http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2253	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage and Prototype (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

I agree with you on the Ambroid/Northeastern and throw in Quality Craft/Cloorcraft for older, wooden material kits, many of which were intended to simulate metal (steel) cars, very, very close in appearance with the older layers of sanding sealer and fine steel wool treatment before color(s) was (were) applied. Back in the 1970's, the only competition were more expensive brass cars. Then came resin. I think the classic wooden kits will draw the most money unless you are building a 1950's type layout, replete with brass track. In such a case, the layout itself is the key vis-a-vis the layout's theme of operation.    John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)  Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you can pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several of these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeaster n cars as I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course one likes to build these. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:10:21 -0600 You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's. To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows. I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each. The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40. The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have. Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built. Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think. As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't). Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann, To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live. Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver. Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood." Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat. One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal. I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today. John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann. DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into something more. http://click4thecau se.live.com/ search/charity/ default.aspx? source=hmemtagli ne_gratitude& FORM=WLMTAG Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2254	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?

I have a few wood and card kits of freight rolling stock for sale or trade if anyone wants them. Made by Megow during WW2, unassembled, in original boxes.   Best to contact me off-list to avoid blocking the bandwidth.   Cheers, Andy Emmerson.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2255	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

I think that Red Ball had a crane--and that is reminiscent of their construction---but the works may well be acratchbuilt.  I certainly don't recall a motorized crane as a regular offering. ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged. ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? Hey Guys! I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. Thanks, Sean Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2256	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

Get -A- Mac............ Why stop there ??? ;^) Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jan 23, 2007, at 9:08 AM, John Hagen wrote: > Jeez, you guys. Either get a Mac or stop your whining! You two sound > like a couple of Milwaukeens (Where the street car bends the corner > around). > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> I feel the same way about my Windows system.......... Most of the >> time I use a different computer that I feel much better about. >> >> I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new >> computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although > I >> do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using >> the whip and chair on it so often. >> >> ;^) >> On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote: >> >>> during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to > turn >>> on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING > TO >>> TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it. gj >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Don Dellmann >>> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM >>> Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque >>> >>> Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these > are >>> kits, >>> because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are. >>> >>> Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2257	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque

Remember Gallagher's "Apple Computer"? (For those who don't--an abacus with apples on the rods.) ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque Myu older brother stil has an abacus, the kind with beads. He claims it has never froze up and never needed to be restarted. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Dave Slater <daslater@.. .> wrote: > > My younger brother still has an Atari 800 XL... > Dave S. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2258	From: bitlerisvj	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?

OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit. This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me longer. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o) > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > > > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you > > can > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several > > of > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true > > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeastern cars > > as > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course > > one > > likes to build these. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G> > > Don > > > > << MILW451600.jpg >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the > Academy Awards® > http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2259	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &

Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2260	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?

All depends on how many people want them and how badly they want them.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you > can > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several > of > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeaster n cars > as > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course > one > likes to build these. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G> Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2261	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

Yeah Glenn, The more I look at it. The more I think that as well. The build is not clean enough to be a kit. But man is it genious! It looks very well thought out, but made up of salvaged parts. I figured out one lever has three positions (not locking) engage the large cab turning gear - neutral - engage a cable pulley (I am not sure if it is to raise the boom or hook) There is another lever on the other side (opposite as the side shown in the pic. I have not figuted out a use for yet.. It has a ~ half inch gear with a flat section attached at the pivot point of the lever. Lift up on the lever and it engages a gear. However the end of the lever seems to have a hook like feature. Have not figured out what it is for or attaches to yet either.. Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: I think that Red Ball had a crane--and that is reminiscent of their construction- --but the works may well be acratchbuilt.  I certainly don't recall a motorized crane as a regular offering. ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged. ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? Hey Guys! I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. Thanks, Sean Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2262	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &

Dear Glenn,   I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...0 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2263	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k

My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one. On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit. This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me longer. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> wrote: > > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o) > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > > > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you > > can > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several > > of > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true > > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeaster n cars > > as > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course > > one > > likes to build these. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G> > > Don > > > > << MILW451600.jpg >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the > Academy Awards® > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1 > The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2264	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &

That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Dear Glenn,   I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...0 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2265	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...

Without getting too far afield from vintage wooden and metal kits, I think the subject of absentee purchase" is a worthwhile subject. I do not do eBay, but that is not because of any bad purchases. I simply don't care for the auction process. You sell at a price-I buy or don't-end of that. With private kit sellers I have had no problems, and the only recent one is with a business that simply says it never received my mail with money order. Fine! I go from there. I still see two "shops" advertised on line that I had issues with but back in the 1990's. I won't do business with them today but I got my money back. One, related to the original subject, wanted to charge me extra for the sprung trucks that came with the Ulrich metal kit which had directions that showed they were part of it. Do business through the mail and try that-trouble for the rip-off artist. I got the complete kit (with trucks)...end of doing business with that individual firm.   Finding reliable model railroad sources is really "hit and miss", but by retaining money order or postal money order or cashier check (for more expensive items) stubs and going by mail...the shady dealer runs a big risk-especially if the victim presents documentation to his/her advertising source (like Model Railroader or Railroad Model Craftsman, et al). Even having an original ad in a mag, that is received through the mails, brings in the P.O., and most publishers don't want that kind of involvement....and may contact the offender in some cases to get the matter properly resolved. The real stinkers in the trade reveal their nature all too soon, and any fool who does or continues to do business with them runs a high risk of rip-off.   I use what I mentioned to assure the seller that I am providing the closest thing to cash in hand...no dubious personal checks and no credit card info that may have me finding charges on bills to a firm long after we ever did a given or last business transaction. Done and done!   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)     Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Glenn,   I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2266	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II

Dear Group,   There are ways to save yourself headaches up front...be it an on-line ad or in a mag. Call (telephone) or email the seller first to see if it is still available. If it isn't...it simply isn't. If it is, make your arrangements and ask about the model (if not displayed) and go from there.   In one recent case I contacted an on-line source who turned out to be the "go-between" between the owner and any potential buyer (such as I was then.) As it turned out, the model was not even in-house. That widened my eyebrows, but the consignment person was (to me) up front and eventually told me the owner had subsequently sold his model (brass freight car) elsewhere. Oh well...no money sent...no harm. BUT, I rechecked the list the consignment dealer has on-line and that item is still listed. Now, I ask, what gives?   Some sellers (and I include shops) are sloppy about timely updates. Some only may do them periodically, and that can be frustrating (maybe the case I mentioned is just such a one.) Others...is it really a case of intended "bait and switch"..."I don't have that, but I do have this other thing..."? Experience with shops on-line and their systems tell me how relatively timely they are or are not. One shop back East I called three times about Internet items listed, and all three times they claimed the respective item was really already sold. I got to wondering if they really wanted to do any business outside their immediate geographical area. You never know. And their prices were too good-if not unbelieveable-and you know that old story.   There are good things out there. Hopefully, modelers may be more often pleasantly surprised with simple honestly and caution. I try to keep it a simple transaction and deal truthfully and honestly from my end. If I get the same back...it's a good day when the UPS or Postman arrives.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)            Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2267	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

Thats the 64 dollar question Sean, wonder if there was ever a magazine article on powering a crane? Looks to be home built rather that factory, if you can get into Kalmbachs magazine index it might be possible to search for a crane powering article. Roger sean naylor wrote: > Hey Roger, > Thanks for the pic. I saved it in the same file as mine, I flapped back > and forth between the two and I think I agree... So now, how did it get > to be functional? I saw one once before on ebay, but I thought it was > all brass. (I might be wrong though). Thanks, Sean > > Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: > > The frame base looks like the Redball crane as Don has mentioned, > picture attached of the one I built in the 60's. Roger Aultman > > sean naylor wrote: > > No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab > > shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with > clock > > work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, > pullies and > > all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which > > switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it > seems to > > all be there... Sean > > > > Glenn Joesten <glenn476@... <mailto:glenn476%40tco.net>> wrote: > > > > without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when > > properly rigged. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: a69mustang4me <mailto:a69mustang4me@... > <mailto:a69mustang4me%40yahoo.com>> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it? > > > > Hey Guys! > > I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully > > functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics > > in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder. > > Thanks, > > Sean > > > > > > ? > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask > your > > question on Yahoo! Answers > > > <http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx > <http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx>>. > > > > > -- > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm > <http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm> > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/> > > > ? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. > <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/> > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2268	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II

Yep, ALWAYS call or email in advance. Since the advent of Internet advertising, I can see that a lot of sellers are quick to put their stuff out there to advertise, but not very quick about keeping it up to date. I can't tell you how many times I called or emailed and found that the item has long disappeared from their stock. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...Part II Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:55:06 -0800 (PST) Dear Group, There are ways to save yourself headaches up front...be it an on-line ad or in a mag. Call (telephone) or email the seller first to see if it is still available. If it isn't...it simply isn't. If it is, make your arrangements and ask about the model (if not displayed) and go from there. In one recent case I contacted an on-line source who turned out to be the "go-between" between the owner and any potential buyer (such as I was then.) As it turned out, the model was not even in-house. That widened my eyebrows, but the consignment person was (to me) up front and eventually told me the owner had subsequently sold his model (brass freight car) elsewhere. Oh well...no money sent...no harm. BUT, I rechecked the list the consignment dealer has on-line and that item is still listed. Now, I ask, what gives? Some sellers (and I include shops) are sloppy about timely updates. Some only may do them periodically, and that can be frustrating (maybe the case I mentioned is just such a one.) Others...is it really a case of intended "bait and switch"..."I don't have that, but I do have this other thing..."? Experience with shops on-line and their systems tell me how relatively timely they are or are not. One shop back East I called three times about Internet items listed, and all three times they claimed the respective item was really already sold. I got to wondering if they really wanted to do any business outside their immediate geographical area. You never know. And their prices were too good-if not unbelieveable-and you know that old story. There are good things out there. Hopefully, modelers may be more often pleasantly surprised with simple honestly and caution. I try to keep it a simple transaction and deal truthfully and honestly from my end. If I get the same back...it's a good day when the UPS or Postman arrives. John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _________________________________________________________________ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2269	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k

I also liked that car--am thinking of scratchbuilding one in O Scale--as an exercise for the new lathe--the one I built in HO was from an "UMPCo" kit-- (Universal Model Products Co.)--a bunch of wood parts in a cellophane bag.  They also had a chlorine tank car--the type that carried the "ton containers" as used in major water and sewage treatment plants.   I used to see the Helium cars near Bayshore Highway at Moffett Field back in the fifties.  I grew up  in Redwood City--I have an official US Navy photo of the Whitcomb diesel switcher that I used to see there. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one. On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote: OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit. This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me longer. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> wrote: > > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o) > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > > > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you > > can > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several > > of > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true > > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeaster n cars > > as > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course > > one > > likes to build these. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G> > > Don > > > > << MILW451600.jpg >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the > Academy Awards® > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1 > The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2270	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &

I kept getting "delaying" responses--then the company was sold-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Glenn,   I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2271	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &

I certainly learned--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Glenn,   I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2272	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Hi once more... What is the best type of glue to use with the wooden or wooden/casemetal kits ? For now that I have Several on hand I am going to build some here soon. So if any of you have done wooden kits and would like to share your Ideas with the rest of this group then do so!   Also what kind of paint is best, and would I need to use a sealer or primer before the 1st coat? For I have ordered some paint from my online hobby shop and found a very nice airbrush as well to use with this joyful hobby!   Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2273	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...

I got caught up in auction purchases of older equipment as a member of Coast Division of PCR (NMRA).  A feature of the quarterly meets was an auction--That crew could "write the book" on auctions at model RR meets--if they had time to.  I was on the auction committee--our auctions would start whenever the business meeting was over--about 12:30 on a Sunday afternoon.  Cut-off time was 6:00 pm.  In that time we usually would turn over in excess of 600 items, and over $10,000 would change hands, with the association getting 10%. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business... Without getting too far afield from vintage wooden and metal kits, I think the subject of absentee purchase" is a worthwhile subject. I do not do eBay, but that is not because of any bad purchases. I simply don't care for the auction process. You sell at a price-I buy or don't-end of that. With private kit sellers I have had no problems, and the only recent one is with a business that simply says it never received my mail with money order. Fine! I go from there. I still see two "shops" advertised on line that I had issues with but back in the 1990's. I won't do business with them today but I got my money back. One, related to the original subject, wanted to charge me extra for the sprung trucks that came with the Ulrich metal kit which had directions that showed they were part of it. Do business through the mail and try that-trouble for the rip-off artist. I got the complete kit (with trucks)...end of doing business with that individual firm.   Finding reliable model railroad sources is really "hit and miss", but by retaining money order or postal money order or cashier check (for more expensive items) stubs and going by mail...the shady dealer runs a big risk-especially if the victim presents documentation to his/her advertising source (like Model Railroader or Railroad Model Craftsman, et al). Even having an original ad in a mag, that is received through the mails, brings in the P.O., and most publishers don't want that kind of involvement. ...and may contact the offender in some cases to get the matter properly resolved. The real stinkers in the trade reveal their nature all too soon, and any fool who does or continues to do business with them runs a high risk of rip-off.   I use what I mentioned to assure the seller that I am providing the closest thing to cash in hand...no dubious personal checks and no credit card info that may have me finding charges on bills to a firm long after we ever did a given or last business transaction. Done and done!   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)   Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote: That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Glenn,   I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2274	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II

In my case, I had ordered by phone--was  in response to an ad flyer--was told " a couple of weeks"--that kept getting put off--eventually the company sold and H&P didn't honor the paid orders.  Time after order was too long for MC to  take action--so I was stuck--but I will never buy from YOH&P --gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bitleris To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...Part II Yep, ALWAYS call or email in advance. Since the advent of Internet advertising, I can see that a lot of sellers are quick to put their stuff out there to advertise, but not very quick about keeping it up to date. I can't tell you how many times I called or emailed and found that the item has long disappeared from their stock. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...Part II Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:55:06 -0800 (PST) Dear Group, There are ways to save yourself headaches up front...be it an on-line ad or in a mag. Call (telephone) or email the seller first to see if it is still available. If it isn't...it simply isn't. If it is, make your arrangements and ask about the model (if not displayed) and go from there. In one recent case I contacted an on-line source who turned out to be the "go-between" between the owner and any potential buyer (such as I was then.) As it turned out, the model was not even in-house. That widened my eyebrows, but the consignment person was (to me) up front and eventually told me the owner had subsequently sold his model (brass freight car) elsewhere. Oh well...no money sent...no harm. BUT, I rechecked the list the consignment dealer has on-line and that item is still listed. Now, I ask, what gives? Some sellers (and I include shops) are sloppy about timely updates. Some only may do them periodically, and that can be frustrating (maybe the case I mentioned is just such a one.) Others...is it really a case of intended "bait and switch"..."I don't have that, but I do have this other thing..."? Experience with shops on-line and their systems tell me how relatively timely they are or are not. One shop back East I called three times about Internet items listed, and all three times they claimed the respective item was really already sold. I got to wondering if they really wanted to do any business outside their immediate geographical area. You never know. And their prices were too good-if not unbelieveable- and you know that old story. There are good things out there. Hopefully, modelers may be more often pleasantly surprised with simple honestly and caution. I try to keep it a simple transaction and deal truthfully and honestly from my end. If I get the same back...it's a good day when the UPS or Postman arrives. John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) ------------ --------- --------- --- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwme00200000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://imagine- msn.com/messenge r/launch80/ default.aspx? locale=en- us&source= hmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2275	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...

Dear Glenn,   I never had that experience, but while stationed with the USAF in Hawaii I was part of another club (not railroad) that had our meetings and a thing called "the Midnight Hobby Shop" over near Kaneoe Marine Corps Air Station (windward side of Oahu Island-opposite from Honolulu.) The seller was a University of Hawaii professor and club member, importing (to Hawaii) what either the Honolulu shops or Bases' Hobby Shops couldn't get. He offered damn good prices (1970-72 era.)  Those auctions can do a lot, but isn't modeling what everybody really gets together for in the first place?   John Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: I got caught up in auction purchases of older equipment as a member of Coast Division of PCR (NMRA).  A feature of the quarterly meets was an auction--That crew could "write the book" on auctions at model RR meets--if they had time to.  I was on the auction committee--our auctions would start whenever the business meeting was over--about 12:30 on a Sunday afternoon.  Cut-off time was 6:00 pm.  In that time we usually would turn over in excess of 600 items, and over $10,000 would change hands, with the association getting 10%. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business... Without getting too far afield from vintage wooden and metal kits, I think the subject of absentee purchase" is a worthwhile subject. I do not do eBay, but that is not because of any bad purchases. I simply don't care for the auction process. You sell at a price-I buy or don't-end of that. With private kit sellers I have had no problems, and the only recent one is with a business that simply says it never received my mail with money order. Fine! I go from there. I still see two "shops" advertised on line that I had issues with but back in the 1990's. I won't do business with them today but I got my money back. One, related to the original subject, wanted to charge me extra for the sprung trucks that came with the Ulrich metal kit which had directions that showed they were part of it. Do business through the mail and try that-trouble for the rip-off artist. I got the complete kit (with trucks)...end of doing business with that individual firm.   Finding reliable model railroad sources is really "hit and miss", but by retaining money order or postal money order or cashier check (for more expensive items) stubs and going by mail...the shady dealer runs a big risk-especially if the victim presents documentation to his/her advertising source (like Model Railroader or Railroad Model Craftsman, et al). Even having an original ad in a mag, that is received through the mails, brings in the P.O., and most publishers don't want that kind of involvement. ...and may contact the offender in some cases to get the matter properly resolved. The real stinkers in the trade reveal their nature all too soon, and any fool who does or continues to do business with them runs a high risk of rip-off.   I use what I mentioned to assure the seller that I am providing the closest thing to cash in hand...no dubious personal checks and no credit card info that may have me finding charges on bills to a firm long after we ever did a given or last business transaction. Done and done!   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)   Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote: That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Glenn,   I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2276	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

MaryAnn.   For wood on wood-I use Ambroid. For attaching metal parts to wood or plastic to wood, I use ACC (watch applying it.) Metal to metal? ACC!   John (jdenver4150@...) maobuch@... wrote: Hi once more... What is the best type of glue to use with the wooden or wooden/casemetal kits ? For now that I have Several on hand I am going to build some here soon. So if any of you have done wooden kits and would like to share your Ideas with the rest of this group then do so!   Also what kind of paint is best, and would I need to use a sealer or primer before the 1st coat? For I have ordered some paint from my online hobby shop and found a very nice airbrush as well to use with this joyful hobby!   Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!! Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2277	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

According to Scott Mason, this is the BEST glue: http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/paa/paapt56.htm This is Pacer Canopy glue and is a white glue similar to Elmers, but with much better properties. I have heard from other friends doing wood modeling and I will be switching from my normal Elmers yellow glue (aliphatic resin) to the Pacer canopy glue. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: <maobuch@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:23:54 -0600 Hi once more... What is the best type of glue to use with the wooden or wooden/casemetal kits ? For now that I have Several on hand I am going to build some here soon. So if any of you have done wooden kits and would like to share your Ideas with the rest of this group then do so! Also what kind of paint is best, and would I need to use a sealer or primer before the 1st coat? For I have ordered some paint from my online hobby shop and found a very nice airbrush as well to use with this joyful hobby! Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!! _________________________________________________________________ Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards� http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2278	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...

One thing I learned there was to set a limit of what I would pay--usually based on not only condition but availability.  Sometimes it would get interesting.  Two nearly identical locos would be on the auction.  One might have a fairly high starting bid and would not sell.  The other, with a lower opening, would take off and sail right past the price of the one that didn't sell.We used a fluorescent red card with the bidder's number on the back side.  Auctioneer would just point and call out the bids When he said "Sold!" you'd best turn the card to show the clerk the number before he hollered "Number Please!". By then the auctioneer was nearly through with the next item.  We could handle over a hundred items per hour. gj----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:18 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business... Dear Glenn,   I never had that experience, but while stationed with the USAF in Hawaii I was part of another club (not railroad) that had our meetings and a thing called "the Midnight Hobby Shop" over near Kaneoe Marine Corps Air Station (windward side of Oahu Island-opposite from Honolulu.) The seller was a University of Hawaii professor and club member, importing (to Hawaii) what either the Honolulu shops or Bases' Hobby Shops couldn't get. He offered damn good prices (1970-72 era.)  Those auctions can do a lot, but isn't modeling what everybody really gets together for in the first place?   John Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: I got caught up in auction purchases of older equipment as a member of Coast Division of PCR (NMRA).  A feature of the quarterly meets was an auction--That crew could "write the book" on auctions at model RR meets--if they had time to.  I was on the auction committee--our auctions would start whenever the business meeting was over--about 12:30 on a Sunday afternoon.  Cut-off time was 6:00 pm.  In that time we usually would turn over in excess of 600 items, and over $10,000 would change hands, with the association getting 10%. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business... Without getting too far afield from vintage wooden and metal kits, I think the subject of absentee purchase" is a worthwhile subject. I do not do eBay, but that is not because of any bad purchases. I simply don't care for the auction process. You sell at a price-I buy or don't-end of that. With private kit sellers I have had no problems, and the only recent one is with a business that simply says it never received my mail with money order. Fine! I go from there. I still see two "shops" advertised on line that I had issues with but back in the 1990's. I won't do business with them today but I got my money back. One, related to the original subject, wanted to charge me extra for the sprung trucks that came with the Ulrich metal kit which had directions that showed they were part of it. Do business through the mail and try that-trouble for the rip-off artist. I got the complete kit (with trucks)...end of doing business with that individual firm.   Finding reliable model railroad sources is really "hit and miss", but by retaining money order or postal money order or cashier check (for more expensive items) stubs and going by mail...the shady dealer runs a big risk-especially if the victim presents documentation to his/her advertising source (like Model Railroader or Railroad Model Craftsman, et al). Even having an original ad in a mag, that is received through the mails, brings in the P.O., and most publishers don't want that kind of involvement. ...and may contact the offender in some cases to get the matter properly resolved. The real stinkers in the trade reveal their nature all too soon, and any fool who does or continues to do business with them runs a high risk of rip-off.   I use what I mentioned to assure the seller that I am providing the closest thing to cash in hand...no dubious personal checks and no credit card info that may have me finding charges on bills to a firm long after we ever did a given or last business transaction. Done and done!   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)   Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote: That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Glenn,   I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2279	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...

Glenn Joesten wrote: > I got caught up in auction purchases of older equipment as a member of > Coast Division of PCR (NMRA). A feature of the quarterly meets was an > auction--That crew could "write the book" on auctions at model RR > meets--if they had time to. I was on the auction committee--our > auctions would start whenever the business meeting was over--about 12:30 > on a Sunday afternoon. Cut-off time was 6:00 pm. In that time we > usually would turn over in excess of 600 items, and over $10,000 would > change hands, with the association getting 10%. gj I remember the auction at the national convention in San Jose in 2000. IIRC that was run by the people you mention. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ The severity of the itch is proportional to the inability to reach it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2280	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...

That was them--although it was nowhere near a typical Coast Division auction as it didn't have the quantity of items.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Jones To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business... Glenn Joesten wrote: > I got caught up in auction purchases of older equipment as a member of > Coast Division of PCR (NMRA). A feature of the quarterly meets was an > auction--That crew could "write the book" on auctions at model RR > meets--if they had time to. I was on the auction committee--our > auctions would start whenever the business meeting was over--about 12:30 > on a Sunday afternoon. Cut-off time was 6:00 pm. In that time we > usually would turn over in excess of 600 items, and over $10,000 would > change hands, with the association getting 10%. gj I remember the auction at the national convention in San Jose in 2000. IIRC that was run by the people you mention. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocitie s.com/seventysix inchesoffun/ The severity of the itch is proportional to the inability to reach it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2281	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

For wood to wood, I use plain old Elmer's.  For wood to metal or plastic, or metal to metal, I use a good brand of contact cement.  Weldwood makes a good one, or "Pliobond" is another good one.  For plastic to plastic, I use Testor's "model Master" brand solvent cement.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: maobuch@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... Hi once more... What is the best type of glue to use with the wooden or wooden/casemetal kits ? For now that I have Several on hand I am going to build some here soon. So if any of you have done wooden kits and would like to share your Ideas with the rest of this group then do so!   Also what kind of paint is best, and would I need to use a sealer or primer before the 1st coat? For I have ordered some paint from my online hobby shop and found a very nice airbrush as well to use with this joyful hobby!   Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2282	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

You might also try:   Weldbond, available at better hardware stores. Be sure to get the data sheet(free but not usually attached to the bottles), as it tells how to use Weldbond for glueing not only wood to wood, but almost anything to anything.   I use this extensdively where the item will not be subject to great heat.   It costs more than white gules, seems similar to them - but it isn't.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)     Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: According to Scott Mason, this is the BEST glue: http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/paa/paapt56.htm This is Pacer Canopy glue and is a white glue similar to Elmers, but with much better properties. I have heard from other friends doing wood modeling and I will be switching from my normal Elmers yellow glue (aliphatic resin) to the Pacer canopy glue. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2283	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating?  For its been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of the 24 kits done...     Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2284	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

If you get the Weldbond, all instructions are included. For wood, the treatment is to paint some thinned(like 2:1 or even 4:1) Weldbond on the surfaces to be joined, let dry and then use as regular white glue - i.e. put some glue on the joining surfaces, clamp and let dry overnight.   Weldbond seems to work best on non-porous materials, and adding the thinned Weldbond to the surfaces provides that are to be glued, which may explain why it will even bond metal to glass...   Try it, it's great - I'll never go backl.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) maobuch@... wrote: Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating?  For its been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of the 24 kits done...     Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2285	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

I still use Walthers GOO if contact cement is needed.  I first used it when assembling some Walthers heavyweight passenger cars as a teenager long ago (slightly pre-Beatles).  These are the cars with wood tops and bottoms, cast metal ends, stamped metal sides, etc..  I always felt that building one of those was almost a right of passage, and perhaps somewhat of a bit of hazing, for entry into the hobby.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Hultberg To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:04 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... You might also try:   Weldbond, available at better hardware stores. Be sure to get the data sheet(free but not usually attached to the bottles), as it tells how to use Weldbond for glueing not only wood to wood, but almost anything to anything.   I use this extensdively where the item will not be subject to great heat.   It costs more than white gules, seems similar to them - but it isn't.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)     Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote: According to Scott Mason, this is the BEST glue: http://www.hobbylin c.com/htm/ paa/paapt56. htm This is Pacer Canopy glue and is a white glue similar to Elmers, but with much better properties. I have heard from other friends doing wood modeling and I will be switching from my normal Elmers yellow glue (aliphatic resin) to the Pacer canopy glue. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2286	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: 1954 Booster

Attachments : Here's the 1954 Mantua Booster I got last week, in service Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2287	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Generally I only seal the wood if it's going to represent a steel car.  For a wood prototype I like to let the wood grain show.   Don ----- Original Message ----- From: maobuch@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re:Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating?  For its been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of the 24 kits done...     Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2288	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: "In Honor of Number 1" (re: 1954 Booster)

Dear Don,   In my storage is what you photo'ed here-a 1954 Mantua Booster. It bears no road insignia now, just a simple number on an old black paint job and a jewel headlight. Its couplers are the hoop ring of that time. It was the result of a nione year old boy at that time peddling pull wagon loads of newspaper and junk to a junkyard...and that boy with his nose pressed against the window of E&H Hobbies in the Mayfair section of Philadelphia...working and dreaming as best he could and dare. In time it was bought-and one Saturday night the boy's father and a friend of the father worked into the wee hours of the following Sunday morning to assemble the Booster kit. That Sunday, it ran for the first time.   On my proposed layout, all these years later, there is Rule One: "No other locomotive or its train shall have priority or right-of-way over Number One, be that loco and/or train brass, plastic, resin or lead-bodied."  It was my HO "Alpha." It has no value...it is beyond value, beyond any price that anyone may think to place upon it.   Thank you.   John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Here's the 1954 Mantua Booster I got last week, in service Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2289	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k

Dear Glenn,   The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief Petty Officer"...Don't Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone knows-I appreciate a response.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: I also liked that car--am thinking of scratchbuilding one in O Scale--as an exercise for the new lathe--the one I built in HO was from an "UMPCo" kit-- (Universal Model Products Co.)--a bunch of wood parts in a cellophane bag.  They also had a chlorine tank car--the type that carried the "ton containers" as used in major water and sewage treatment plants.   I used to see the Helium cars near Bayshore Highway at Moffett Field back in the fifties.  I grew up  in Redwood City--I have an official US Navy photo of the Whitcomb diesel switcher that I used to see there. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one. On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote: OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit. This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me longer. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> wrote: > > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o) > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > > > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you > > can > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several > > of > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true > > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeaster n cars > > as > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course > > one > > likes to build these. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G> > > Don > > > > << MILW451600.jpg >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the > Academy Awards® > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1 > The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2290	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k

Well--SF is near where I used to see them--but Moffett Field doesn't handle "Lighter-than-Air" operations now.  There is a huge hangar that used to house the US Navy's Dirigibles" and the "Blimps" used for coastal defense. The pride of the fleet was the USS Macon, which can still be seen by divers off Point Sur--where she went down before WWII. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:41 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Glenn,   The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief Petty Officer"...Don' t Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone knows-I appreciate a response.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: I also liked that car--am thinking of scratchbuilding one in O Scale--as an exercise for the new lathe--the one I built in HO was from an "UMPCo" kit-- (Universal Model Products Co.)--a bunch of wood parts in a cellophane bag.  They also had a chlorine tank car--the type that carried the "ton containers" as used in major water and sewage treatment plants.   I used to see the Helium cars near Bayshore Highway at Moffett Field back in the fifties.  I grew up  in Redwood City--I have an official US Navy photo of the Whitcomb diesel switcher that I used to see there. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one. On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote: OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit. This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me longer. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> wrote: > > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o) > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > > > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you > > can > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several > > of > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true > > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeaster n cars > > as > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course > > one > > likes to build these. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G> > > Don > > > > << MILW451600.jpg >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the > Academy Awards® > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1 > The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2291	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hey Guys... I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I just posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure out the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. Nice little engine though... Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2292	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k

Oh yes-I read or so old film footage of the Macon. Did you ever read who built those huge things for the U.S. Navy? Anyway, I have a "Sparrowhawk" kit in 1:72 scale of the landing gearless fighters that such airships launched and recovered. I grew up in the 1950's seeing the usual blimps out of NAS Lakehurst (New Jersey). Its fame was the Von Hindenberg tragedy in 1937 (?) If you are on the West Coast. a visit to the old NAS at Tillemock, Orgeon (the cheese town), is worth it-for railroad reasons as well as aircraft history.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@yahoo) Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: Well--SF is near where I used to see them--but Moffett Field doesn't handle "Lighter-than- Air" operations now.  There is a huge hangar that used to house the US Navy's Dirigibles" and the "Blimps" used for coastal defense. The pride of the fleet was the USS Macon, which can still be seen by divers off Point Sur--where she went down before WWII. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:41 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Glenn,   The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief Petty Officer"...Don' t Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone knows-I appreciate a response.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: I also liked that car--am thinking of scratchbuilding one in O Scale--as an exercise for the new lathe--the one I built in HO was from an "UMPCo" kit-- (Universal Model Products Co.)--a bunch of wood parts in a cellophane bag.  They also had a chlorine tank car--the type that carried the "ton containers" as used in major water and sewage treatment plants.   I used to see the Helium cars near Bayshore Highway at Moffett Field back in the fifties.  I grew up  in Redwood City--I have an official US Navy photo of the Whitcomb diesel switcher that I used to see there. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one. On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote: OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit. This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me longer. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> wrote: > > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o) > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > > > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you > > can > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several > > of > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true > > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeaster n cars > > as > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course > > one > > likes to build these. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G> > > Don > > > > << MILW451600.jpg >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the > Academy Awards® > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1 > The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2293	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: 1954 Booster

Don, Nice engine. I especially like the MN decals. Neat. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Here's the 1954 Mantua Booster I got last week, in service > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2294	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /AA/A5-w-combine1581 copy.jpg Uploaded by : sottguy <aiberg@...> Description : English A5 Yarbird with English 60' coach You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/AA/A5-w-combine1581%20copy.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, sottguy <aiberg@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2295	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /AA/Englishcombine-ca1585 copy.jpg Uploaded by : sottguy <aiberg@...> Description : English combine in kit form You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/AA/Englishcombine-ca1585%20copy.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, sottguy <aiberg@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2296	From: sottguy	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Recent J A English acquisitions

I have been wanting to acquire a John English coach for some time in the continuing quest to get the more appealing pieces of my modest collection acquired in the '50s. Today I found this coach at a swap meet painted black with Pennsy lettering. Much to my surprise and delight, I also found a combine still in kit form at another table. I never owned the combine but had wanted one bach then. I have posted photos of both in the files under AA -Al's vintage stuff. The coach is shown behing the English A5 0=4-0 Yardbird, my first locomotive back in the very early '50s The combine is shown as the kit - no box, alas. I plan build the combine and repaint the coach. Regars, Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2297	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: 1954 Booster

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1954 Booster > Don, Nice engine. I especially like the MN decals. Neat. > > John Hagen > I might mention that John was the one who printed the decals for me. :-) A BIG "Thank You" (Ping to John, I don't know what you did different but the yellow ones didn't work, Transparent and dots rather than solid color :-( ) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2298	From: jim gerstley	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________________________________________________________________________________ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2299	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Dear Maryann,   You do not use sanding sealer on a wooden kit that is supposed to represent a wooden car. That would hide the wood grain ( and Don said that already.) The old wooden cars were not airbrushed or spray painted (talking of the prototype cars.) You may want to dry brush ( a low amount of paint on a paint brush) the car side with the desired color you don't have an excessive amount of paint on the wood. Paint with the grain of the wood. A thin spray of a clear coat is used to cover the dried color to provide a thin smooth surface for applying decals or dry transfers. To maximize decal conformity to the surface, you should use a Solveset on the area to which the decal is applied, especially if there are irregular surfaces involved (small spaces between wood pieces on car sides.)   IMPORTANT: The Solveset is strong, and thin film decals may crinkle unless you thin the area with a touch of water...diluting it. How can you get decals to "lay down"?  Simple trick I use is to take a piece of absorbent paper towel and hold it near the decal in place. The excess moisture is sucked into the towel from under the decal, and the decal settles down. It's like the locks in the Panama Canal in principle, when raising or lowering a ship. If the decal shifts off-place, apply water to float it again right away. Then repeat the "towel process."   On the clear coat thing, you can add more after the decal dries in place if you want a varnished look. On old time passenger cars (before 1900 or early-1900's), the varnish would cause white paint to yellow a tad with time. That effect is what caused the Pennsylvania Railroad's "Pennsylvania Limited" to be nicknamed "The Yellow Kid." If you ever see a painting or color rendition of that famous passenger train, you might wonder why it was painted red, white, and green. Answer: The Pennsylvania Railroad copped the idea from the paint scheme that Pullman used on the President of Mexico's private car.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)            maobuch@... wrote: Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating?  For its been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of the 24 kits done...     Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!! TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2300	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

Dear Jim,   I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.   Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.   You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.   I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"-very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)          jim gerstley <jimggers@...> wrote: I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2301	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

This summer, while in Cheyenne, we stopped by La Belle Woorworking to get a "tour". We got there, and thought we were at the wrong address. It was a older house on a corner of a road--didn't even look like someone lived there. We figuired that it was the correct house, because it had a La Belle sign in the window. We knocked on the door, and heard a "Come on in". Right when we walked in, we saw boxes of bulk wood, and completed kits. The man, whom I can not recall his name, showed us the original display models, how to make the kit, how to build it. Quite impressive process.   I ended up getting a D&RGW motor car, which I built a couple of months ago into a Pullman green/C&NW green paint, with a black roof. I am happy with it, and it was my first laser kit that I have built.   I plan on buying the powering kit for it, eventually, and possibly might get a few more of the open platform cars.   Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: jim gerstley <jimggers@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2302	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

Phil,   I guess you met Rick and Tanya Steele...and their current site says they are working to import a power unit for the D&RGW gas electric unit.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Philip Martin <martin_lumber@...> wrote: This summer, while in Cheyenne, we stopped by La Belle Woorworking to get a "tour". We got there, and thought we were at the wrong address. It was a older house on a corner of a road--didn't even look like someone lived there. We figuired that it was the correct house, because it had a La Belle sign in the window. We knocked on the door, and heard a "Come on in". Right when we walked in, we saw boxes of bulk wood, and completed kits. The man, whom I can not recall his name, showed us the original display models, how to make the kit, how to build it. Quite impressive process.   I ended up getting a D&RGW motor car, which I built a couple of months ago into a Pullman green/C&NW green paint, with a black roof. I am happy with it, and it was my first laser kit that I have built.   I plan on buying the powering kit for it, eventually, and possibly might get a few more of the open platform cars.   Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2303	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

----- Original Message ----- From: "jim gerstley" <jimggers@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle > I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit > of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify > for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle > used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered > them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed > for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's > been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not > sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to > fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in > assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should > be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together > so the sides went on square with the roof. I just left the roofs loose on mine (wish I still had them, in fact the fellow who started LaBelle her in Wisconsin years ago belonged to our Church). As far as paint, I had the best luck brushing on original Floquil with no primer or sealer. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2304	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

Hello John-   Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas? Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Dear Jim,   I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.   Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.   You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.   I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)          jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote: I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2305	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

Well, they said the trolley power kit will work, but I would have to find that out.   Yep, I meat Rick Steele. Now I know the name.   Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:34:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Phil,   I guess you met Rick and Tanya Steele...and their current site says they are working to import a power unit for the D&RGW gas electric unit.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Philip Martin <martin_lumber@ yahoo.com> wrote: This summer, while in Cheyenne, we stopped by La Belle Woorworking to get a "tour". We got there, and thought we were at the wrong address. It was a older house on a corner of a road--didn't even look like someone lived there. We figuired that it was the correct house, because it had a La Belle sign in the window. We knocked on the door, and heard a "Come on in". Right when we walked in, we saw boxes of bulk wood, and completed kits. The man, whom I can not recall his name, showed us the original display models, how to make the kit, how to build it. Quite impressive process.   I ended up getting a D&RGW motor car, which I built a couple of months ago into a Pullman green/C&NW green paint, with a black roof. I am happy with it, and it was my first laser kit that I have built.   I plan on buying the powering kit for it, eventually, and possibly might get a few more of the open platform cars.   Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2306	From: Martin Rosenfeld	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type? Martin Rosenfeld > > The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that > prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I > saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli > Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to > Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec > Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one > source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I > saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built > by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about > it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian > service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief > Petty Officer"...Don't Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone > knows-I appreciate a response.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2307	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

You mean there's something there? I thought is was just blank pages.....jab-jab. > > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type? > > Martin Rosenfeld > > > > The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that > > prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I > > saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli- Koli > > Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to > > Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec > > Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one > > source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I > > saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built > > by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about > > it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian > > service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief > > Petty Officer"...Don't Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone > > knows-I appreciate a response. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2308	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

Kinda reminds you of those dang blue lights on some cars or when someone is using there brights! Not cool! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Martin Rosenfeld <rosenfeldmj@...> wrote: > > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type? > > Martin Rosenfeld

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2309	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: writing in red was Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

Indeed writing in red is very bad. It is not as bad as typing in all caps but it is just not nice. Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > You mean there's something there? > I thought is was just blank pages.....jab-jab.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2310	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: people paying TOO much for kits on ebay wasHow rare are wooden

I tend to stay with Athearn. It amazes me what happens. I see all ends of the spectrum! Who will ever for get the 132 dallar crane!! And there have been others though not much as grand. Band powered engines go for assorted rates. And I have seen a few plastic framed Fs go high! Saw a snowbird go high a few days ago. It was in a box and plastic. Kits go for 10 to 20 most for tank cars. And I have seen wooden kits go high. Silver streak mostly. I have a couple but have not tryed to build um. Also always looking for rare Athearn boxes. I am finding this wooden kit thread interesting!! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think. As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't). > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2311	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

For wood and metal kits I like Floquil applied with an airbrush. A lot of the airbrush compressors are overpriced--check Harbor Freight Tools, Kragen/Schuck's Auto Supply, and even Sears for better prices--just be sure it is an "oilless" compressor.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... MaryAnn.   For wood on wood-I use Ambroid. For attaching metal parts to wood or plastic to wood, I use ACC (watch applying it.) Metal to metal? ACC!   John (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) maobuch@sbcglobal. net wrote: Hi once more... What is the best type of glue to use with the wooden or wooden/casemetal kits ? For now that I have Several on hand I am going to build some here soon. So if any of you have done wooden kits and would like to share your Ideas with the rest of this group then do so!   Also what kind of paint is best, and would I need to use a sealer or primer before the 1st coat? For I have ordered some paint from my online hobby shop and found a very nice airbrush as well to use with this joyful hobby!   Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!! Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2312	From: jay matz	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

Phil Westside made one in Brass MRS-1 it was also NSWGR Class-48 (Austrailla). Sold one on Ebay last week. Jay Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2313	From: jay matz	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

Phil Get a Bachmann Gas Electric and take the drive out, or Walthers Gas Electric. It will be cheeper and run better. Jay Philip Martin <martin_lumber@...> wrote: Well, they said the trolley power kit will work, but I would have to find that out. . Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2314	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

If you set your mail reader to "plain text" the red goes away. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Rosenfeld" <rosenfeldmj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type? > > Martin Rosenfeld >> >> The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that >> prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I >> saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli >> Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to >> Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec >> Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one >> source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I >> saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built >> by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about >> it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian >> service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief >> Petty Officer"...Don't Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone >> knows-I appreciate a response. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2315	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: people paying TOO much for kits on ebay wasHow rare are wooden

Just be patient, bargains are still out there. I pay on the average about $5.00 each plus shipping for plastic, original Athearn, HObbyline and Varney especially. I virtually never pay over $10 for a wooden or metal car. MDC metal is still a bargain, the ones that seem to go for the most are Ulrich, but even there I've found deals. The worst are the people paying high prices for Bachmann & china Tyco. The problem with the high prices being paid by some people with more money than brains is it drives the asking price up from people who have no knowledge of HO and think that just because it's more than 5 years old it's got to be valuable. Then, those of us who really appreciate the vintage find it being priced out of our range, and the stuff sits, not being sold because the holder has an inflated sense of what it's worth. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:17 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: people paying TOO much for kits on ebay wasHow rare are wooden & metal kits? >I tend to stay with Athearn. It amazes me what happens. I see all ends > of the spectrum! > Who will ever for get the 132 dallar crane!! And there have been others > though not much as grand. Band powered engines go for assorted rates. > And I have seen a few plastic framed Fs go high! Saw a snowbird go high > a few days ago. It was in a box and plastic. Kits go for 10 to 20 most > for tank cars. > And I have seen wooden kits go high. Silver streak mostly. I have a > couple but have not tryed to build um. Also always looking for rare > Athearn boxes. > > I am finding this wooden kit thread interesting!! > > Steamengine4449 > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there > fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but > there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think. As > far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of > the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on > the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs > think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't). >> >> Don > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2316	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

Another good drive is the original Spectrum GE 44 and 70 tonners, the ones with two motors.  Two of them are driving my brass Electroliner, and a third powers my Walthers North Shore combine.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Phil Get a Bachmann Gas Electric and take the drive out, or Walthers Gas Electric. It will be cheeper and run better. Jay Philip Martin <martin_lumber@...> wrote: Well, they said the trolley power kit will work, but I would have to find that out. . Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2317	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...

Dear Group,   The seeker of the rare commodity, or who is led to believe it is rare, is "the hunted" and not "the hunter".  This is why I do not play the eBay game. That said, I know of a non- model railroader type who once placed an add in a magazine, willing to pay $3,000 for an Aurora kit of an unbuilt "Godzillamobile." A wealthy lunatic or a student of a hobby madness somewhere in a post-graduate program? I don't know. I laughed hysterically. Several decades back an IPMS national conventioner, attending it in Seattle, alledgedly paid $104 for a Revell kit of a German Wehrmacht (Army) V-2 rocket in 1-72 scale in the original box, only to have that company flood the market several weeks thereafter with the same kit (in plastic bags) at $2.50 apiece. Such are the tales.   Common sense should apply itself, but that is becoming the rarest commodity of all. The point is, you cannot buy it on eBay or anywhere else.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)     Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote: I tend to stay with Athearn. It amazes me what happens. I see all ends of the spectrum! Who will ever for get the 132 dallar crane!! And there have been others though not much as grand. Band powered engines go for assorted rates. And I have seen a few plastic framed Fs go high! Saw a snowbird go high a few days ago. It was in a box and plastic. Kits go for 10 to 20 most for tank cars. And I have seen wooden kits go high. Silver streak mostly. I have a couple but have not tryed to build um. Also always looking for rare Athearn boxes. I am finding this wooden kit thread interesting! ! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think. As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't). > > Don Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2318	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

My apologies, Group. I have used the red to distinguish it from earlier postings on a given message. I nd the practice with this posting.   John (jdenver4150@...) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: If you set your mail reader to "plain text" the red goes away. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Rosenfeld" <rosenfeldmj@ ca.rr.com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type? > > Martin Rosenfeld >> >> The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that >> prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I >> saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli >> Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to >> Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec >> Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one >> source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I >> saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built >> by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about >> it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian >> service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief >> Petty Officer"...Don' t Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone >> knows-I appreciate a response. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2319	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

Dear Phil,   No-I know of no manufacturer who makes or made the MRS-1. That would be a great piece. To get WW II Transportation Corps steam, I would have to order a partial brass kit from a British manufacturer. The price in British pounds, if I recall correctly, is 250. We were at $1.50 to one British Pound...se what I mean? Even the PRR's Electroliner went military in the end-a few cars being picked up for some Army experiment and are now on display at Ft. Eustice, Virginia. Gem's old box should be updated to read PRR-RDG-U.S. Army (TC). There are various pieces out there...and somebody is proposing further release of WW II Army hospital cars (beyond what is offered.) Anybody for a Coast Guard GP-7? I've only seen a color photo of a prototype one. Strangest available piece I have seen: a Soviet railcar in captured (by U.S. Army) scheme in the Korean War...the model made and painted in that supposed scheme...by a Russian model manufacturer.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)  Philip Martin <martin_lumber@...> wrote: Hello John-   Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas? Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Dear Jim,   I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.   Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.   You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.   I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)          jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote: I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2320	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

I have seen those engines, and they are a close match. There is a company in Brazil who makes a Alco RSD-8, which is also close to a MRS-1, but they are way too expensive. I'll look around for one of those AU engines in plastic. Thanks for your help.   Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: jay matz <dlw455@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:53:38 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Phil Westside made one in Brass MRS-1 it was also NSWGR Class-48 (Austrailla) . Sold one on Ebay last week. Jay Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2321	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

I saw that Roundhouse Hobbies of Alaska imports them because they are an exact match for their ex-Army 2-8-0's they run up there.   I would love a Army 2-8-0, because the Cass Scenic Railroad (The railroad I model) has ex-Army 2-8-0 #612 in their deadline. It was from Ft. Eustis. Unfortunetly, the brass kit is way over my head. Now, if it was about $150, I would get it in a heartbeat (Oh yeah, It would have to be assembled).   Since Bachmann has produced tons of Cass Scenic Railroad stuff (The Shay, the log car, and now they are producing their excursion cars!) Maybe we can convince them to make the 2-8-0 in a model (They could have a couple of Army numbers, and some Alaska Railroad, and maybe a Tennesee Valley Railroad engine).   Who knows? Maybe they will make it.   Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 9:22:14 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Dear Phil,   No-I know of no manufacturer who makes or made the MRS-1. That would be a great piece. To get WW II Transportation Corps steam, I would have to order a partial brass kit from a British manufacturer. The price in British pounds, if I recall correctly, is 250. We were at $1.50 to one British Pound...se what I mean? Even the PRR's Electroliner went military in the end-a few cars being picked up for some Army experiment and are now on display at Ft. Eustice, Virginia. Gem's old box should be updated to read PRR-RDG-U.S. Army (TC). There are various pieces out there...and somebody is proposing further release of WW II Army hospital cars (beyond what is offered.) Anybody for a Coast Guard GP-7? I've only seen a color photo of a prototype one. Strangest available piece I have seen: a Soviet railcar in captured (by U.S. Army) scheme in the Korean War...the model made and painted in that supposed scheme...by a Russian model manufacturer.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)  Philip Martin <martin_lumber@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hello John-   Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas? Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Dear Jim,   I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.   Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.   You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.   I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)          jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote: I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2322	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Also Farm and Fleet, Fleet Fsrm, the what-ever-it-is Tractor Company have good prices. I got mine at at one of the auto store chains. And, depending on the size, you can use it for an air-nailer for your bench work. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > For wood and metal kits I like Floquil applied with an airbrush. A lot of the airbrush compressors are overpriced--check Harbor Freight Tools, Kragen/Schuck's Auto Supply, and even Sears for better prices-- just be sure it is an "oilless" compressor. gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2323	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...

Only one person controls what one pays for something on ebay (or anywhere really), that is the buyer him/her self.. I have purchased several items on ebay and was never forced to pay more than I thought an item was worth. I have bid on many items at the starting price (if reasonable) and made it my maximum bid. Yeah, I don’t get a lot of them that way, but I do get some and then I got a real bargain. I have 3 personal rules; Check the shipping cost. If it isn’t listed, click the “contact seller” and ask. If they don’t respond, don’t bid! Put in your max amount and DON’T raise it. Some times you may want to put in a low-ball just to get a feel on the interest of other bidders and then do the max. If your really serious about an object, do not put in your maximum bid until there is less than a minute left.   I have gotten many nice buys doing it this way. Oh yeah, one other thing that is so very basic and normal I almost forgot to mention it but NEVER fail to do; CHECK THE SELLER’S FEEDBACK.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2324	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... > Also Farm and Fleet, Fleet Fsrm, the what-ever-it-is Tractor Company > have good prices. I got mine at at one of the auto store chains. And, > depending on the size, you can use it for an air-nailer for your bench > work. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote: >> >> For wood and metal kits I like Floquil applied with an airbrush. A > lot of the airbrush compressors are overpriced--check Harbor Freight > Tools, Kragen/Schuck's Auto Supply, and even Sears for better prices-- > just be sure it is an "oilless" compressor. gj I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for a hundred bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for under $20.00. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2325	From: jim gerstley	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep

Any suggestions how to prep the LaBelle cars for painting? For sealing the car sides without damaging the "individual boards" milled into the siding? And getting rid of the wood grain on the roof etc? Thanks

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2326	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest

Enter our new cover photo contest now. Take your favorite picture featuring Vintage HO equipment (pre-1965 or so), and upload it to the "a contest" photo album before January 31, 2006. Photos may feature locomotives, rolling stock, structures or scenery, but must be predominantly "vintage". Please only one entry per member. For the month of February, we will have an open poll for all the members to vote on the photo of their choice. The winner will be the new cover photo for at least till mid summer.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2327	From: Tom	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Help identifying these cars

Hi guys, looking for some help on identifying two old cars I have. Can't figure out who made them. They are in the folder "some of my projects" There is an all diecast maroon hopper car there and a diecast stock car. The stock car has a wooden floor and roof. Diecast sides and ends and brass slides for the doors to slide in. Thanks in advance for your help. Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2328	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Hmmmm, now that's interesting. Wonder if it pulls anough vacuum for resin casting. . --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for a hundred > bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual > manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for under > $20.00. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2329	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest

I would like to enter, but is January 31, 2006 a typo? Thanks, Sean vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote: Enter our new cover photo contest now. Take your favorite picture featuring Vintage HO equipment (pre-1965 or so), and upload it to the "a contest" photo album before January 31, 2006. Photos may feature locomotives, rolling stock, structures or scenery, but must be predominantly "vintage". Please only one entry per member. For the month of February, we will have an open poll for all the members to vote on the photo of their choice. The winner will be the new cover photo for at least till mid summer. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2330	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Help identifying these cars

One of the problems is the size of the photos and the inability to enlage them with detail. The hopper LOOKS like a ScaleCraft center frame. My 2-rail "0" ScaleCraft has frames like that, with a rounded "U" channel. The stock LOOKS like some old Walthers I had, except the main frame is cut (not too sure if the frame is from another kit, as generally the floor braces in mine were evenly spaced, but the cut prevents shorts between trucks and/or couplers. Just a rough guess unless I could see a bigger shot. Dave > > Hi guys, looking for some help on identifying two old cars I have. > Can't figure out who made them. They are in the folder "some of my > projects" There is an all diecast maroon hopper car there and a > diecast stock car. The stock car has a wooden floor and roof. Diecast > sides and ends and brass slides for the doors to slide in. Thanks in > advance for your help. Tom >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2331	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Don, Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like that to prevent "surges"??? Dave S. Don Dellmann wrote: I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for a hundred bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for under $20.00. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2332	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k

There is also the remains of a blimp base in Port Townsend, WA--was in "An Officer and a Gentlemen"--but Moffett was the big one.  I'm not sure, but I think that the rigid airships were built by Goodyear under license from Zeppelin. pr were WWI reparations from Germany.  Anyhow, ours were filled with Helium. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Oh yes-I read or so old film footage of the Macon. Did you ever read who built those huge things for the U.S. Navy? Anyway, I have a "Sparrowhawk" kit in 1:72 scale of the landing gearless fighters that such airships launched and recovered. I grew up in the 1950's seeing the usual blimps out of NAS Lakehurst (New Jersey). Its fame was the Von Hindenberg tragedy in 1937 (?) If you are on the West Coast. a visit to the old NAS at Tillemock, Orgeon (the cheese town), is worth it-for railroad reasons as well as aircraft history.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo) Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Well--SF is near where I used to see them--but Moffett Field doesn't handle "Lighter-than- Air" operations now.  There is a huge hangar that used to house the US Navy's Dirigibles" and the "Blimps" used for coastal defense. The pride of the fleet was the USS Macon, which can still be seen by divers off Point Sur--where she went down before WWII. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:41 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Glenn,   The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief Petty Officer"...Don' t Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone knows-I appreciate a response.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: I also liked that car--am thinking of scratchbuilding one in O Scale--as an exercise for the new lathe--the one I built in HO was from an "UMPCo" kit-- (Universal Model Products Co.)--a bunch of wood parts in a cellophane bag.  They also had a chlorine tank car--the type that carried the "ton containers" as used in major water and sewage treatment plants.   I used to see the Helium cars near Bayshore Highway at Moffett Field back in the fifties.  I grew up  in Redwood City--I have an official US Navy photo of the Whitcomb diesel switcher that I used to see there. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one. On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote: OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit. This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me longer. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> wrote: > > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o) > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? > > > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you > > can > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several > > of > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true > > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeaster n cars > > as > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course > > one > > likes to build these. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G> > > Don > > > > << MILW451600.jpg >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the > Academy Awards® > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1 > The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2333	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Recent J A English acquisitions

neat stuff--I have the Pacific with combine and two coaches--just about max load for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: sottguy To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions I have been wanting to acquire a John English coach for some time in the continuing quest to get the more appealing pieces of my modest collection acquired in the '50s. Today I found this coach at a swap meet painted black with Pennsy lettering. Much to my surprise and delight, I also found a combine still in kit form at another table. I never owned the combine but had wanted one bach then. I have posted photos of both in the files under AA -Al's vintage stuff. The coach is shown behing the English A5 0=4-0 Yardbird, my first locomotive back in the very early '50s The combine is shown as the kit - no box, alas. I plan build the combine and repaint the coach. Regars, Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2334	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

the present owner of LaBelle is active on several of the narrow gauge Yahoo groups. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Dear Jim,   I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.   Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.   You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.   I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)          jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote: I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2335	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Just wanted to say thanks!

I am 36 years old and I am sure i am young compared to many, if not all in the discussion group. Please be paitient with my preface, I will eventually get to my point... I started collecting when I was 13 or 14 and I went to a house auction on the south side of Pittsburgh, PA. I just missed the sale of an old Marx New haven Diesel set which was almost complete; It was missing the flat car load. My dad told me to offer the "winner" $20 for the set, so I did and he said yes. I oppened the box to find my first ever set in mint shape. I sat in the car on the way home and took out each piece to look at it, when I did, I went to move the box out of the way, but it was still heavy. I lifted out the insert and found a White Athearn New Haven F7 a & b set and a bunch of other llose painted lead details and people. Since then, I have been modeling the New Haven RR. I never had enough money to buy the items I liked. The stuff that sold cheap, was cheap. (To a kid with NO budget, a $10 car purchase was out of my league.) About 8 years ago I started learning to use the computer. Soon after that I discovered eBay. I would allow myself the occasional purchase when I first started with it 7 years ago. I went back to school in 1998 to earn my engineering degere, so again, I had no money. About 2.5 years ago, I decided to sell off a box of what I considered to be junk. I did ir by selling it one ot two pieces at a time... Low and behold, I made $500 on my junk! From that, I purchased more. At that time, I was taking a chance. I had maybe only one old diecast in my collection and it was only a beat-up old mantua. Since then I have been buying and selling only trains (with the occasional Mustang or Mustang parts) to pay for my train and Mustang habbit. My wife refers to it as my OCD sickness... Most of what I have learned about the vintage trains, I have done so in the past two years from learnin about what I have been buying and selling. I promise to never try to sell anything here, because I do not believe it is the right place. I have all my collecting life searched for a means to aquire the items I liked and information about the items I have see, or have. FINALLY, MY POINT!... Until a couple of weeks ago, I had never thought of joining a discussion group.. I am so happy I did! Most of my train collecting hobby life has been isolated and not able to be shared with anyone else who gave a darn about them. It might be wierd, but at times, I actually become very excited over a certain purchase. Sometimes, I even lose sleep over it. Take for instance the Red Ball crane I picked up last week or the (what I believe to be, but not yet group confirmed) Early Penn Line Mini Diesel. Normally, I would either never find out (which rarely happens because I am too stubborn) or it takes so long, I forget that I was looking for info on it. With this group, so much info has been opened up to me, as well as the chance to connect with other individuals who feel the same about their trains as I do. I just wanted to say thanks. I hope I never offend anyone and I hope someday I can return the favor. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2336	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...

I must agree with everything you said John. For me, it is bid onece, bid the max I am willing to pay and bid within the last 7 seconds... If I get it, great! If no, move on... If it goes over my max, I do not bid! I have had a couple thousand transactions and I can count on one hand the number I have been truely unhappy with... One more hint... Really look at the picture... If the seller does not have a picture in the listing, but he has pictures in other listings... Really question what it is he/she is selling... I learned that one...   Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: Only one person controls what one pays for something on ebay (or anywhere really), that is the buyer him/her self.. I have purchased several items on ebay and was never forced to pay more than I thought an item was worth. I have bid on many items at the starting price (if reasonable) and made it my maximum bid. Yeah, I don’t get a lot of them that way, but I do get some and then I got a real bargain. I have 3 personal rules; Check the shipping cost. If it isn’t listed, click the “contact seller” and ask. If they don’t respond, don’t bid! Put in your max amount and DON’T raise it. Some times you may want to put in a low-ball just to get a feel on the interest of other bidders and then do the max. If your really serious about an object, do not put in your maximum bid until there is less than a minute left. I have gotten many nice buys doing it this way. Oh yeah, one other thing that is so very basic and normal I almost forgot to mention it but NEVER fail to do; CHECK THE SELLER’S FEEDBACK. John Hagen Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2337	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions

One can see where the Penn Line molds came from for their versions in plastic.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn Joesten Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:48 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions   neat stuff--I have the Pacific with combine and two coaches--just about max load for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: sottguy To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions   I have been wanting to acquire a John English coach for some time in the continuing quest to get the more appealing pieces of my modest collection acquired in the '50s. Today I found this coach at a swap meet painted black with Pennsy lettering. Much to my surprise and delight, I also found a combine still in kit form at another table. I never owned the combine but had wanted one bach then. I have posted photos of both in the files under AA -Al's vintage stuff. The coach is shown behing the English A5 0=4-0 Yardbird, my first locomotive back in the very early '50s The combine is shown as the kit - no box, alas. I plan build the combine and repaint the coach. Regars, Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2338	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

Really, I don't mind, and it does set it off....hence the "jab-jab" comment I made. Like in the ribs. > > My apologies, Group. I have used the red to distinguish it from earlier postings on a given message. I nd the practice with this posting. > > John (jdenver4150@...) > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > If you set your mail reader to "plain text" the red goes away. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martin Rosenfeld" <rosenfeldmj@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:26 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings > > > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type? > > > > Martin Rosenfeld > >> > >> The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that > >> prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I > >> saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli- Koli > >> Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to > >> Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec > >> Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one > >> source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I > >> saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built > >> by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about > >> it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian > >> service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief > >> Petty Officer"...Don't Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone > >> knows-I appreciate a response. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2339	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Recent J A English acquisitions

I have also wanted a John English combine for some time, finally got one a couple of months ago, definately harder to find that the coaches. Roger Aultman Glenn Joesten wrote: > neat stuff--I have the Pacific with combine and two coaches--just about > max load for it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sottguy <mailto:aiberg@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:04 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions > > I have been wanting to acquire a John English coach for some time in > the continuing quest to get the more appealing pieces of my modest > collection acquired in the '50s. Today I found this coach at a swap > meet painted black with Pennsy lettering. Much to my surprise and > delight, I also found a combine still in kit form at another table. I > never owned the combine but had wanted one bach then. I have posted > photos of both in the files under AA -Al's vintage stuff. > > The coach is shown behing the English A5 0=4-0 Yardbird, my first > locomotive back in the very early '50s The combine is shown as the > kit - no box, alas. > > I plan build the combine and repaint the coach. > > Regars, > > Al Askerberg > > Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional > Change settings via the Web > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJndjl2OTM1BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEyMTA0ODYyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjA0MzAxNARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMTcwMDEzNjg3> > (Yahoo! ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest > <mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest> > | Switch to Fully Featured > <mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery > Format: Fully Featured> > Visit Your Group > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcHBnZGNtBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEyMTA0ODYyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjA0MzAxNARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNocGYEc3RpbWUDMTE3MDAxMzY4Nw--> > | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> | > Unsubscribe > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2340	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

Glenn Joesten wrote: > There is also the remains of a blimp base in Port Townsend, WA--was in > "An Officer and a Gentlemen"--but Moffett was the big one. I'm not > sure, but I think that the rigid airships were built by Goodyear under > license from Zeppelin. pr were WWI reparations from Germany. Anyhow, > ours were filled with Helium. There's also a former blimp base with 2 hangars still standing at Tustin, CA. A couple of sites with history and photos are here: http://www.militarymuseum.org/MCASTustin.html http://www.placesearth.com/USA/California/Orange/code/tustinair.htm The ATSF San Diego main line runs along the northern edge of the base. Google Earth gives a nice overhead photo. Enter "Tustin, CA", center the view over the Marine Corp Air Station in the lower center portion of the display, zoom in and switch to satellite view. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ "One cat just leads to another." - Ernest Hemingway

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2341	From: nycrrmitch	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

I find them very annoying and generally just delete them. Joe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Martin Rosenfeld <rosenfeldmj@...> wrote: > > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type? > > Martin Rosenfeld > > > > snip<

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2342	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rail to the harbor

Attachments : Note: forwarded message attached. Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2343	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

Phil:  Why not try Bowser of Roundhouse they both make a 2-8-0 that would be the right size.  Mike Looney

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2344	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rail to the harbor

Raymond L and list: There is an ocean going tug boat, marked for the Army Engineers, tied up and on display in the Harbor at Kewaunee, Wisconsin. Been there and toured that, a few years ago. Have photos but, don't have a scanner.... Sorry..... Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2345	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

OK--Rick Steele--that's the name I couldn't remember.  He shows up frequently on the On3, Southwest Narrow Gauge, and other related Yahoo sites.    I have built many LaBelle cars over the years--starting with a 5-car  O Standard gauge train back in the mid 1960's while I was in the army---used to run them at John Armstrong's. Have also built 6 or more of the On3 cars as sold under the Star and Carson & Colorado names.  I have the O Scale version of the D&RGW motor car, and have also built a few O Interurbans.   One thing I didn't pay attention to while building the On3 San Juan cars--the insure. say not to use white glue--well, I did, had to find enough books and bricks to flatten a dozen car sides until they dried! gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Phil,   I guess you met Rick and Tanya Steele...and their current site says they are working to import a power unit for the D&RGW gas electric unit.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Philip Martin <martin_lumber@ yahoo.com> wrote: This summer, while in Cheyenne, we stopped by La Belle Woorworking to get a "tour". We got there, and thought we were at the wrong address. It was a older house on a corner of a road--didn't even look like someone lived there. We figuired that it was the correct house, because it had a La Belle sign in the window. We knocked on the door, and heard a "Come on in". Right when we walked in, we saw boxes of bulk wood, and completed kits. The man, whom I can not recall his name, showed us the original display models, how to make the kit, how to build it. Quite impressive process.   I ended up getting a D&RGW motor car, which I built a couple of months ago into a Pullman green/C&NW green paint, with a black roof. I am happy with it, and it was my first laser kit that I have built.   I plan on buying the powering kit for it, eventually, and possibly might get a few more of the open platform cars.   Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2346	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

We have one locally--One spotting feature is the cab roof is about the same height as the hood. 6-wheel trucks rather than 4-wheel on civilian RS-1's. The Yreka Western's #244 is rated at 1600 hp--which I would consider to be more of an MRS-3 or 5--It is in daily service hauling veneer and chips to the CORP interchange in Montague from the Timber Products mill near Yreka. ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Martin To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Hello John-   Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas? Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Dear Jim,   I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.   Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.   You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.   I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)          jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote: I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2347	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest

You betchum.  Regardless of what it says, you still have a few days to enter.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest I would like to enter, but is January 31, 2006 a typo? Thanks, Sean vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote: Enter our new cover photo contest now. Take your favorite picture featuring Vintage HO equipment (pre-1965 or so), and upload it to the "a contest" photo album before January 31, 2006. Photos may feature locomotives, rolling stock, structures or scenery, but must be predominantly "vintage". Please only one entry per member. For the month of February, we will have an open poll for all the members to vote on the photo of their choice. The winner will be the new cover photo for at least till mid summer. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2348	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep

For the roofs I "paint down" tissue paper.  Fit the clerestory inserts but leave loose until after painting.  I airbrush Floquil gray primer all over.  then the finish colors.  You want the wood grain to show (unless you're doing one of the D&SNG's 330-class coaches, with the "scribed steel" siding. or the C&TS fiberglass-sided cars. Then use a good sanding sealer, or styrene siding. ----- Original Message ----- From: jim gerstley To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep Any suggestions how to prep the LaBelle cars for painting? For sealing the car sides without damaging the "individual boards" milled into the siding? And getting rid of the wood grain on the roof etc? Thanks

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2349	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!

----- Original Message ----- From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Just wanted to say thanks! >I am 36 years old and I am sure i am young compared to many, if not > all in the discussion group. Please be paitient with my preface, I > will eventually get to my point... > I started collecting when I was 13 or 14 and I went to a house > auction on the south side of Pittsburgh, PA. I just missed the sale > of an old Marx New haven Diesel set which was almost complete; It was > missing the flat car load. My dad told me to offer the "winner" $20 > for the set, so I did and he said yes. I oppened the box to find my > first ever set in mint shape. I sat in the car on the way home and > took out each piece to look at it, when I did, I went to move the box > out of the way, but it was still heavy. I lifted out the insert and > found a White Athearn New Haven F7 a & b set and a bunch of other > llose painted lead details and people. Since then, I have been > modeling the New Haven RR. I never had enough money to buy the items > I liked. The stuff that sold cheap, was cheap. (To a kid with NO > budget, a $10 car purchase was out of my league.) About 8 years ago I > started learning to use the computer. Soon after that I discovered > eBay. I would allow myself the occasional purchase when I first > started with it 7 years ago. I went back to school in 1998 to earn my > engineering degere, so again, I had no money. About 2.5 years ago, I > decided to sell off a box of what I considered to be junk. I did ir > by selling it one ot two pieces at a time... Low and behold, I made > $500 on my junk! From that, I purchased more. At that time, I was > taking a chance. I had maybe only one old diecast in my collection > and it was only a beat-up old mantua. Since then I have been buying > and selling only trains (with the occasional Mustang or Mustang > parts) to pay for my train and Mustang habbit. My wife refers to it > as my OCD sickness... Most of what I have learned about the vintage > trains, I have done so in the past two years from learnin about what > I have been buying and selling. I promise to never try to sell > anything here, because I do not believe it is the right place. I have > all my collecting life searched for a means to aquire the items I > liked and information about the items I have see, or have. FINALLY, > MY POINT!... > > Until a couple of weeks ago, I had never thought of joining a > discussion group.. I am so happy I did! Most of my train collecting > hobby life has been isolated and not able to be shared with anyone > else who gave a darn about them. It might be wierd, but at times, I > actually become very excited over a certain purchase. Sometimes, I > even lose sleep over it. Take for instance the Red Ball crane I > picked up last week or the (what I believe to be, but not yet group > confirmed) Early Penn Line Mini Diesel. Normally, I would either > never find out (which rarely happens because I am too stubborn) or it > takes so long, I forget that I was looking for info on it. With this > group, so much info has been opened up to me, as well as the chance > to connect with other individuals who feel the same about their > trains as I do. I just wanted to say thanks. I hope I never offend > anyone and I hope someday I can return the favor. > > Thanks, > Sean It's reading posts like that that make me glad I started the group. Of all the yahoo gorups I'm on (and at last count it was about 84) and the half a dozen or so I own or moderate, this one's may favorite. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2350	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

It would. Want to borrow it? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... > Hmmmm, now that's interesting. Wonder if it pulls anough vacuum for > resin casting. > . > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for > a hundred >> bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual >> manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for > under >> $20.00. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2351	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

>----- Original Message ----- >From: Dave Slater >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:40 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden >kit... >Don, >Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like >that to prevent "surges"??? >Dave S. Badger claims you don't need it being a diaphragm unit. I did get a tank (actually an old truck air brake resevoir from work), and a regulator and it does help, even if for no other reason than to charge up the tank and not make a lot of noise while you're painting. The only down size is these things only put out about 30-35 PSI, fine for solvent paint, but maybe a little light for acrylics. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2352	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

that's why I went with the DeVilbiss 1hp unit I have--with a 3-gallon tank.  Also spends much less time running.  Takes about a minute to fill the tank initially--to 125 psi--then when tank pressure drops to 75 psi it kicks in for 15-20 sec.   Quiet the rest of the time. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... Don, Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like that to prevent "surges"??? Dave S. Don Dellmann wrote: I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for a hundred bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for under $20.00. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2353	From: Garrett and Libby Rea	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep

Steel wool works wonders. Garrett

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2354	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

ight. I'll let you know. Thanks. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > It would. Want to borrow it? > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:50 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden > kit... > > > > Hmmmm, now that's interesting. Wonder if it pulls anough vacuum for > > resin casting. > > . > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > wrote: > >> > >> I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for > > a hundred > >> bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual > >> manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for > > under > >> $20.00. > >> > >> Don > >> > >> don.dellmann@ > >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > >> Owner-Moderator > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> Co-moderator > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2355	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Boy I hate it when I press the "ctrl" key instead of the "shift" key. The message was supposed to read "Might, I'll let you know. Thanks" John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > > ight. I'll let you know. Thanks. > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2356	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep

I have switched to things like Scotch Brite* instead of steel wool in my etching plant/studio/factory and it doea the job well. Steel wool has an annoying habit of rusting. Maybe not as quickly in the hobby room, but your may nevertheless have bits of steel and/or rust influencing your paintwork. Substitues may often be had in the "dollar" stores, too.   My 2 cents' worth...   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Garrett and Libby Rea <glmp1995@...> wrote: Steel wool works wonders. Garrett Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2357	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)

John, it happens to me all the time. Wish I could move that button easily. Too many times I touch it lightly when trying to type "S" instead of "s" and send the darned e-mail without finishing it. John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: Boy I hate it when I press the "ctrl" key instead of the "shift" key. The message was supposed to read "Might, I'll let you know. Thanks" John Hagen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2358	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep

You bring up a valid point, especially with the modern acrylic water-based paints in use today. They are really a major advancement in painting. No solvents, non-flammable, fast drying, air-brush clogging, impossible to get a smooth 2nd coat with, gloss beads up and ruins the entire paint job, drives ME NUTS, I HATE USING THE GOOEY CRAP!!!   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: >   > I have switched to things like Scotch Brite* instead of steel wool in my etching plant/studio/factory and it doea the job well. Steel wool has an annoying habit of rusting. Maybe not as quickly in the hobby room, but your may nevertheless have bits of steel and/or rust influencing your paintwork. Substitues may often be had in the "dollar" stores, too. >    >   My 2 cents' worth... >    >   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) > > Garrett and Libby Rea <glmp1995@...> wrote: >   Steel wool works wonders. > > Garrett

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2359	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Thanks Don, I may just stick to my original plan and run an airline down to the basement from the compressor in the attached toy box, oops make that GARAGE..  <VBG> I'll put a regulator and traps on it too of course.. <G> Dave S. (Cheapskate in training). Don Dellmann wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... Don, Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like that to prevent "surges"??? Dave S. Badger claims you don't need it being a diaphragm unit. I did get a tank (actually an old truck air brake resevoir from work), and a regulator and it does help, even if for no other reason than to charge up the tank and not make a lot of noise while you're painting. The only down size is these things only put out about 30-35 PSI, fine for solvent paint, but maybe a little light for acrylics. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2360	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: --- In scalecentral@yahoogroups.com, "n9lge" wrote:

Hi Cheapska…, er, that is, Dave.   By all means use the garage compressor if it’s feasible. Back a couple of houses ago I had it kind of reversed, my compressor was in the basement and I ran a line outside to air up tires, etc. I had a detached garage at the time so it wasn’t practical to do it the right way, as you are. You will need a real good water separator or maybe use 2, one “normal” size mounted close to the compressor and a Paasche separator right in the air brush hose. I think I paid something around $8 - $9 bucks at my LHS for it and seems to do a better job than the one located in the main air line. Having it in the garage makes for a nice, quiet work area. I’m still in a house with a detached garage so now I have 2 compressors, both small industrial types. I just can’t justify in my mind spending as much or more to get a unit that can’t do much more than ran an air brush. Maybe I’m the cheapskate, but I prefer frugal.   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: >   > Thanks Don, > I may just stick to my original plan and run an airline down to the > basement from the compressor in the attached toy box, oops make that > GARAGE..  <VBG> I'll put a regulator and traps on it too of course.. <G> > Dave S. (Cheapskate in training).

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2361	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &

Glenn,   I don't know what to say, but if the new ownership inherited any of its past indebtedness-you may be part of that and should bellow at them-if you have documentation of purchase or money sent. I have a hunch you did business with them out of Rockhill Furnace...I have no idea what they were like or what the new group is like out of Lewistown. Cannot hurt to touch base.   John Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: I kept getting "delaying" responses--then the company was sold-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Glenn,   I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2362	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Sounds like a plan for me too... The problem is, when my compressor kicks on, it makes the entire house shake... The first (and last) time it happened it was shortly after I purchased it (2005 birthday present). It is one of those BIG uprights. It was 2:30 AM and my wife wanted to kill me... Now i remember to shut it off and drain the tank when I am done using it. I have plans to run lines all over my garage, basement and to the back of the house Sean Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: Thanks Don, I may just stick to my original plan and run an airline down to the basement from the compressor in the attached toy box, oops make that GARAGE..  <VBG> I'll put a regulator and traps on it too of course.. <G> Dave S. (Cheapskate in training). Don Dellmann wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... Don, Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like that to prevent "surges"??? Dave S. Badger claims you don't need it being a diaphragm unit. I did get a tank (actually an old truck air brake resevoir from work), and a regulator and it does help, even if for no other reason than to charge up the tank and not make a lot of noise while you're painting. The only down size is these things only put out about 30-35 PSI, fine for solvent paint, but maybe a little light for acrylics. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2363	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)

Gee, fred, I thought it was only us old guys that had that problem. Heck you're, lets see now, 4 years my junior so.... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > > John, it happens to me all the time. Wish I could move that button easily. Too many times I touch it lightly when trying to type "S" instead of "s" and send the darned e-mail without finishing it. > > John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: Boy I hate it when I press the "ctrl" key instead of the "shift" key. > The message was supposed to read "Might, I'll let you know. Thanks" > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2364	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away

Dear Group,   The MRS-1 is well-covered on Internet sites. I found a wealth of information by just typing "MRS-1 diesel locomotive" and hitting Web Search.  The San Diego Railroad Museum site will produce an interior diagram of the locomotive which has enumerated parts below the drawing that you can click on and see a photo of the area of the locomotive.   The MRS-1 is fast becoming, to my thinking, a candidate for popular manufacturers to market, given its wide use. I have an Army-decorated EMD-40 "Critter", a piece of history, but the real-life company only built eleven. There were more MRS-1's, three of the five preserved locos still in running condition. I do not know about anyone else, but we have F-3's, F-7's, and a slew of others up our ying-yangs. How many DCC, sound-equipped versions of these by how many different makers do we need? The MRS-1's would be new locos, but they can toat a lot of old cars around.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: We have one locally--One spotting feature is the cab roof is about the same height as the hood. 6-wheel trucks rather than 4-wheel on civilian RS-1's. The Yreka Western's #244 is rated at 1600 hp--which I would consider to be more of an MRS-3 or 5--It is in daily service hauling veneer and chips to the CORP interchange in Montague from the Timber Products mill near Yreka. ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Martin To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Hello John-   Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas? Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Dear Jim,   I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.   Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.   You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.   I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)          jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote: I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2365	From: Dave Slater	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: --- In scalecentral@yahoogroups.com, "n9lge" wrote:

John, You are correct, Frugal is a better choice of words..  LOL I agree on the water traps, sometimes the bigger ones are not that efficient, we have a huge "air dryer" in the lines coming off the huge main compressors (2 of them) at the plant I work in then there are regular water traps at all the presses. Some days when the humidity is quite high we have to drain the traps twice a shift, 10 hours. Dave S. John Hagen wrote: Hi Cheapska…, er, that is, Dave.   By all means use the garage compressor if it’s feasible. Back a couple of houses ago I had it kind of reversed, my compressor was in the basement and I ran a line outside to air up tires, etc. I had a detached garage at the time so it wasn’t practical to do it the right way, as you are. You will need a real good water separator or maybe use 2, one “normal” size mounted close to the compressor and a Paasche separator right in the air brush hose. I think I paid something around $8 - $9 bucks at my LHS for it and seems to do a better job than the one located in the main air line. Having it in the garage makes for a nice, quiet work area. I’m still in a house with a detached garage so now I have 2 compressors, both small industrial types. I just can’t justify in my mind spending as much or more to get a unit that can’t do much more than ran an air brush. Maybe I’m the cheapskate, but I prefer frugal.   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: >   > Thanks Don, > I may just stick to my original plan and run an airline down to the > basement from the compressor in the attached toy box, oops make that > GARAGE..  <VBG> I'll put a regulator and traps on it too of course.. <G> > Dave S. (Cheapskate in training). No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/655 - Release Date: 1/28/2007 1:12 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2366	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies

Folks,   An ancient army with its navy was pharoah's. Recruits all went through "boot", and the VHS tape I have (30 minutes long) would make Vets cringe with the similarities of things they did way back when at "Basic". Not changed much in 3,000 to 4,000 years, starting with haircuts. Upon completion, some got assigned to Nile transports as deck hands (the ancient Egyptians never had a deep-water navy...they had a defense pact with the Minoans who provided "blue water" defense.) One tomb they discovered near a small town was an ancient local boy who did good-seven gold necklaces (equivalent of today's Congressional Medal of Honor.) He was Crew Commander Ohkmos (Navy?)...he rose through the enlisted ranks and lived to retire at age 55 (very old in those days.) He got into some battles, starting with Avaris in the Nile Delta Region. I think he was Ancient Egypt's "Audie Murphy"-and an army brat to boot. His tomb walls' hieroglyphs tell the story of one career military man's life-like his "201 file."  Only one private rose to a higher rank-Horrumheb"-and he was a general who became pharoah for about 24 years.   Off subject? Consider that the ancient Egyptians were two-thirds of the way to inventing the railroad as they built the Great Pyramid at Giza (Khufu's pyramid.)  Egyptologists found "ties" embedded in a resin-coated surfaces that topped the ramps they used-and those ancient folk even invented switch turn-out ties. Very close...very close...   John   DLeistikow@... wrote: Raymond L and list: There is an ocean going tug boat, marked for the Army Engineers, tied up and on display in the Harbor at Kewaunee, Wisconsin. Been there and toured that, a few years ago. Have photos but, don't have a scanner.... Sorry..... Don L. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2367	From: Philip Martin	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away

There are 2 MRS-1's at the Cass Scenic Railroad also--both were in running condition (with very little work) before they were put on the deadline, along with 2 ex-B&O S4's. They are of ex-South Branch Valley orgin, and formerly were at the Colt's Neck Ammunition Depot. These were the engines I wanted to model. The 28 (one of the 2) was used as the Shop switcher at Cass for a while, until they got their 65 tonner working.   Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:18:47 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] MRS-1...a Click Away Dear Group,   The MRS-1 is well-covered on Internet sites. I found a wealth of information by just typing "MRS-1 diesel locomotive" and hitting Web Search.  The San Diego Railroad Museum site will produce an interior diagram of the locomotive which has enumerated parts below the drawing that you can click on and see a photo of the area of the locomotive.   The MRS-1 is fast becoming, to my thinking, a candidate for popular manufacturers to market, given its wide use. I have an Army-decorated EMD-40 "Critter", a piece of history, but the real-life company only built eleven. There were more MRS-1's, three of the five preserved locos still in running condition. I do not know about anyone else, but we have F-3's, F-7's, and a slew of others up our ying-yangs. How many DCC, sound-equipped versions of these by how many different makers do we need? The MRS-1's would be new locos, but they can toat a lot of old cars around.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: We have one locally--One spotting feature is the cab roof is about the same height as the hood. 6-wheel trucks rather than 4-wheel on civilian RS-1's. The Yreka Western's #244 is rated at 1600 hp--which I would consider to be more of an MRS-3 or 5--It is in daily service hauling veneer and chips to the CORP interchange in Montague from the Timber Products mill near Yreka. ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Martin To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Hello John-   Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas? Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Dear Jim,   I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.   Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.   You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.   I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)          jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote: I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2368	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Vic: This is not similar to a white glue at all, not even in the same class, but you can get it at a Michael store under another name, and it is the same has what MircoScale has for doing windows, and that Testors has out for clear parts and windows, but it is not anywhere close to being the same has Elmers white glue or even the yellow glue you are talking about. Just wanted to clear that up. Mike Looney

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2369	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away

That's two votes, I think.   The newer Air Force tended to buy commercially available types for service at air bases here. I saw a GE 44-tonner at McGuire AFB (New Jersey) when I delivered my hold baggage for shipping to Lowry AFB, Colorado, as I was about to go on Active Duty. I cursed myself for not having a camera. A year or so before, I saw "blue belly" RS types doing coal hopper switching work at Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio. I noticed that a New Haven RS switched out Otis AFB up on Cape Cod in the summer of 1968, but I think because the Commonwealth of Massachusetts leased the base to the Air Force, the New Haven got the contract.   The Air Force's railroad repository is Hill AFB, Ogden, Utah. What may or may not still be there would be interesting to find out.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)             Philip Martin <martin_lumber@...> wrote: There are 2 MRS-1's at the Cass Scenic Railroad also--both were in running condition (with very little work) before they were put on the deadline, along with 2 ex-B&O S4's. They are of ex-South Branch Valley orgin, and formerly were at the Colt's Neck Ammunition Depot. These were the engines I wanted to model. The 28 (one of the 2) was used as the Shop switcher at Cass for a while, until they got their 65 tonner working.   Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:18:47 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] MRS-1...a Click Away Dear Group,   The MRS-1 is well-covered on Internet sites. I found a wealth of information by just typing "MRS-1 diesel locomotive" and hitting Web Search.  The San Diego Railroad Museum site will produce an interior diagram of the locomotive which has enumerated parts below the drawing that you can click on and see a photo of the area of the locomotive.   The MRS-1 is fast becoming, to my thinking, a candidate for popular manufacturers to market, given its wide use. I have an Army-decorated EMD-40 "Critter", a piece of history, but the real-life company only built eleven. There were more MRS-1's, three of the five preserved locos still in running condition. I do not know about anyone else, but we have F-3's, F-7's, and a slew of others up our ying-yangs. How many DCC, sound-equipped versions of these by how many different makers do we need? The MRS-1's would be new locos, but they can toat a lot of old cars around.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: We have one locally--One spotting feature is the cab roof is about the same height as the hood. 6-wheel trucks rather than 4-wheel on civilian RS-1's. The Yreka Western's #244 is rated at 1600 hp--which I would consider to be more of an MRS-3 or 5--It is in daily service hauling veneer and chips to the CORP interchange in Montague from the Timber Products mill near Yreka. ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Martin To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Hello John-   Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas? Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle Dear Jim,   I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.   Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.   You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.   I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)          jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote: I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together so the sides went on square with the roof. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2370	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II

As for me since I live so far away from both Amarillo, Texas as well as the OKC area. I seem to do most of my hobby supply ordering as well online. Other than using Walthers for my main hobby shop, it is one of the online ones that I have found and have found Hobby Time that is in Amarillo.  But we do have a very nice train only hobby shop that I do try to spend time and monry at, which is in the OKC area.   So far I have been very lucky not to have any or any major problems with any one of the three that I now am using to get what I may need for the hobby and layout.     Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2371	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the ad. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK% 3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1 Steamengine4449

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2372	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

Thanks. BTW put it at the top as you are doing. That way everyone knows. If you want a color use blue or green. Much more gentle to read. Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > My apologies, Group. I have used the red to distinguish it from earlier postings on a given message. I nd the practice with this posting. > > John (jdenver4150@...)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2373	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

I too am a MRS1 fan. But too broke to pay hundreds for it! Interesting about the Russian car!!! Can only wonder if that really happened. And why a Russian would paint it!! Maybe he did not like the soviet union. Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > Dear Phil, > > No-I know of no manufacturer who makes or made the MRS-1. That would be a great piece. > To get WW II Transportation Corps steam, I would have to order a partial brass kit from a British manufacturer. The price in British pounds, if I recall correctly, is 250. We were at $1.50 to one British Pound...se what I mean? Even the PRR's Electroliner went military in the end-a few cars being picked up for some Army experiment and are now on display at Ft. Eustice, Virginia. Gem's old box should be updated to read PRR-RDG-U.S. Army (TC). > There are various pieces out there...and somebody is proposing further release of WW II Army hospital cars (beyond what is offered.) Anybody for a Coast Guard GP-7? I've only seen a color photo of a prototype one. Strangest available piece I have seen: a Soviet railcar in captured (by U.S. Army) scheme in the Korean War...the model made and painted in that supposed scheme...by a Russian model manufacturer.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2374	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!

Hi Sean, I am only 25 so I am younger then you. But I am into all eras of Athearn and MDC. Still trying to catch an Athearn orginal Steamer in good shape. Also looking for an Athearn Rectifyer! I have an assortment of Athearns. Most interesting being a Carnation passenger car set. It was a neat mail order thing. One would order um one at a time. I got um on ebay a year or two ago. All silver. F7s and passenger cars. And I have an assortment of freight cars. all eras. Along with assorted engines. Including an AB of band powered Daylight Fs and an SP RDC1. Yes the SP one was a special. But it is way cool!! Neat that your set was EXSTRA full!!! I am guessing you stil have them all? Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I am 36 years old and I am sure i am young compared to many, if not > all in the discussion group. Please be paitient with my preface, I > will eventually get to my point... > I started collecting when I was 13 or 14 and I went to a house > auction on the south side of Pittsburgh, PA. I just missed the sale > of an old Marx New haven Diesel set which was almost complete; It was > missing the flat car load. My dad told me to offer the "winner" $20 > for the set, so I did and he said yes. I oppened the box to find my > first ever set in mint shape. I sat in the car on the way home and > took out each piece to look at it, when I did, I went to move the box > out of the way, but it was still heavy. I lifted out the insert and > found a White Athearn New Haven F7 a & b set and a bunch of other > llose painted lead details and people. Since then, I have been > modeling the New Haven RR. I never had enough money to buy the items > I liked. The stuff that sold cheap, was cheap. (To a kid with NO > budget, a $10 car purchase was out of my league.) About 8 years ago I > started learning to use the computer. Soon after that I discovered > eBay. I would allow myself the occasional purchase when I first > started with it 7 years ago. I went back to school in 1998 to earn my > engineering degere, so again, I had no money. About 2.5 years ago, I > decided to sell off a box of what I considered to be junk. I did ir > by selling it one ot two pieces at a time... Low and behold, I made > $500 on my junk! From that, I purchased more. At that time, I was > taking a chance. I had maybe only one old diecast in my collection > and it was only a beat-up old mantua. Since then I have been buying > and selling only trains (with the occasional Mustang or Mustang > parts) to pay for my train and Mustang habbit. My wife refers to it > as my OCD sickness... Most of what I have learned about the vintage > trains, I have done so in the past two years from learnin about what > I have been buying and selling. I promise to never try to sell > anything here, because I do not believe it is the right place. I have > all my collecting life searched for a means to aquire the items I > liked and information about the items I have see, or have. FINALLY, > MY POINT!... > > Until a couple of weeks ago, I had never thought of joining a > discussion group.. I am so happy I did! Most of my train collecting > hobby life has been isolated and not able to be shared with anyone > else who gave a darn about them. It might be wierd, but at times, I > actually become very excited over a certain purchase. Sometimes, I > even lose sleep over it. Take for instance the Red Ball crane I > picked up last week or the (what I believe to be, but not yet group > confirmed) Early Penn Line Mini Diesel. Normally, I would either > never find out (which rarely happens because I am too stubborn) or it > takes so long, I forget that I was looking for info on it. With this > group, so much info has been opened up to me, as well as the chance > to connect with other individuals who feel the same about their > trains as I do. I just wanted to say thanks. I hope I never offend > anyone and I hope someday I can return the favor. > > Thanks, > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2375	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...

Yeah I hear you there! I have been happy with most of mine too. The worst was an IHC GG1. It looked great in the pic but the one I got was smashed at BOTH ends! That really REALLY bummed me out! I still have not gotten a replacement. Do not think of it most of the time. BTW yes I am a GG1 fan even though it is a bit out of my line. My main RR is Southern Pacific. Second is CNW. My concept RR has them interchanging with a yard. Yes I like switchyards. Sadly I do not have room right now for it. So I have a small layout. But still GG1s are soo cool! I have never bought one with no picture. I have rarely even seen one with no picture. Stemaengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I must agree with everything you said John. For me, it is bid onece, bid the max I am willing to pay and bid within the last 7 seconds... If I get it, great! If no, move on... If it goes over my max, I do not bid! I have had a couple thousand transactions and I can count on one hand the number I have been truely unhappy with... > One more hint... > Really look at the picture... If the seller does not have a picture in the listing, but he has pictures in other listings... Really question what it is he/she is selling... I learned that one... > > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2376	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies

That is all VERY interesting!! I did not know they came that close to inventing Railroading. Makes me wonder how close they really got.... IE rail and horse drawn cars I suppose... I have wondered how those HUGE pyramids were made. Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Folks, > > An ancient army with its navy was pharoah's. Recruits all went through "boot", and the VHS tape I have (30 minutes long) would make Vets cringe with the similarities of things they did way back when at "Basic". Not changed much in 3,000 to 4,000 years, starting with haircuts. Upon completion, some got assigned to Nile transports as deck hands (the ancient Egyptians never had a deep-water navy...they had a defense pact with the Minoans who provided "blue water" defense.) One tomb they discovered near a small town was an ancient local boy who did good-seven gold necklaces (equivalent of today's Congressional Medal of Honor.) He was Crew Commander Ohkmos (Navy?)...he rose through the enlisted ranks and lived to retire at age 55 (very old in those days.) He got into some battles, starting with Avaris in the Nile Delta Region. I think he was Ancient Egypt's "Audie Murphy"-and an army brat to boot. His tomb walls' hieroglyphs tell the story of one career military man's > life-like his "201 file." Only one private rose to a higher rank- Horrumheb"-and he was a general who became pharoah for about 24 years. > > Off subject? Consider that the ancient Egyptians were two-thirds of the way to inventing the railroad as they built the Great Pyramid at Giza (Khufu's pyramid.) Egyptologists found "ties" embedded in a resin-coated surfaces that topped the ramps they used-and those ancient folk even invented switch turn-out ties. Very close...very close... > > John

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2377	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II

Hi, Glad it is going well! BTW your site link does not work. Also 16 point? I got a bit of vision problem myself and only need 12. The settings for your computer are very setable. You might want to reset it. Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <maobuch@...> wrote: > > As for me since I live so far away from both Amarillo, Texas as well as the OKC area. I seem to do most of my hobby supply ordering as well online. Other than using Walthers for my main hobby shop, it is one of the online ones that I have found and have found Hobby Time that is in Amarillo. But we do have a very nice train only hobby shop that I do try to spend time and monry at, which is in the OKC area. > > So far I have been very lucky not to have any or any major problems with any one of the three that I now am using to get what I may need for the hobby and layout. > > > Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch > http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html > PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can > See what you are saying to me !!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2378	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!

Hey Don, A couple of things...   I am actually glad to see I am not the youngest!   I just sold the second athearn pacific steam engine I have ever seen up close for $75+ 330072471683, I never knew it would go that high... I was hoping for $36 since it was a kit, but it was mising one pipe. They are pretty rare. Even more rare to come my way is the only Athearn Little Monster 0-4-0, which I have not decided to do with yet. It is a complete kit in the box as well, but it is missing the box cover... This is the first one I have ever seen up close...    I am always looking for Athearn or Lionel Rectifiers. I think I have 4 or 6 of them now.. I just traded a newly found friend and member of this group a Bachmann climax (new in the box) and some brass detail pieces of his choosing for an american flyer 0-6-0 smoke unit, a New Haven Box car, a Central Valley Valve gear Kit and a Lionel Rectifier (Missing two steps). The road I "Run" is New Haven, which actually had those engines. I put "Run" in quotes, because I have not had a layout in 18 years. Having two moster todlers and a two bedroom house, I do not have the space for one now.   As for the marx set... Sold it for $50 when I was 15 to a guy who had an ad in the MR. I never really liked the Marx Set. It never ran good and always required cleaning. Besides it looked too toy like for me... I probably purchased mor New Haven equipment with it. As for the Athearn F7s... I do not think the engines made it... I beat the hell out of them. I had a straight stretch on my layout that I would go full throttle on. It ended in a 18" rad curve... Once, as my vintage New haven White F7 engine pair hit the wall at the other end, I clocked it at 260 miles per hour (scale speed). I think I sold them as "Junk" two years ago, but immediatly replaced them with exactly the same engine (but mint) ..several times over, maybe - probably out of gilt, now I have a boot box full of the white New Haven F7s.   I also have a box full of athearn silver passenger car... I plan to make a matched set of the New Haven Budd Roger Williams. I made one off of photos, before I found plans. I plan to start over now.   I still have all the cast metal details and people though.   Later! Sean Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote: Hi Sean, I am only 25 so I am younger then you. But I am into all eras of Athearn and MDC. Still trying to catch an Athearn orginal Steamer in good shape. Also looking for an Athearn Rectifyer! I have an assortment of Athearns. Most interesting being a Carnation passenger car set. It was a neat mail order thing. One would order um one at a time. I got um on ebay a year or two ago. All silver. F7s and passenger cars. And I have an assortment of freight cars. all eras. Along with assorted engines. Including an AB of band powered Daylight Fs and an SP RDC1. Yes the SP one was a special. But it is way cool!! Neat that your set was EXSTRA full!!! I am guessing you stil have them all? Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > I am 36 years old and I am sure i am young compared to many, if not > all in the discussion group. Please be paitient with my preface, I > will eventually get to my point... > I started collecting when I was 13 or 14 and I went to a house > auction on the south side of Pittsburgh, PA. I just missed the sale > of an old Marx New haven Diesel set which was almost complete; It was > missing the flat car load. My dad told me to offer the "winner" $20 > for the set, so I did and he said yes. I oppened the box to find my > first ever set in mint shape. I sat in the car on the way home and > took out each piece to look at it, when I did, I went to move the box > out of the way, but it was still heavy. I lifted out the insert and > found a White Athearn New Haven F7 a & b set and a bunch of other > llose painted lead details and people. Since then, I have been > modeling the New Haven RR. I never had enough money to buy the items > I liked. The stuff that sold cheap, was cheap. (To a kid with NO > budget, a $10 car purchase was out of my league.) About 8 years ago I > started learning to use the computer. Soon after that I discovered > eBay. I would allow myself the occasional purchase when I first > started with it 7 years ago. I went back to school in 1998 to earn my > engineering degere, so again, I had no money. About 2.5 years ago, I > decided to sell off a box of what I considered to be junk. I did ir > by selling it one ot two pieces at a time... Low and behold, I made > $500 on my junk! From that, I purchased more. At that time, I was > taking a chance. I had maybe only one old diecast in my collection > and it was only a beat-up old mantua. Since then I have been buying > and selling only trains (with the occasional Mustang or Mustang > parts) to pay for my train and Mustang habbit. My wife refers to it > as my OCD sickness... Most of what I have learned about the vintage > trains, I have done so in the past two years from learnin about what > I have been buying and selling. I promise to never try to sell > anything here, because I do not believe it is the right place. I have > all my collecting life searched for a means to aquire the items I > liked and information about the items I have see, or have. FINALLY, > MY POINT!... > > Until a couple of weeks ago, I had never thought of joining a > discussion group.. I am so happy I did! Most of my train collecting > hobby life has been isolated and not able to be shared with anyone > else who gave a darn about them. It might be wierd, but at times, I > actually become very excited over a certain purchase. Sometimes, I > even lose sleep over it. Take for instance the Red Ball crane I > picked up last week or the (what I believe to be, but not yet group > confirmed) Early Penn Line Mini Diesel. Normally, I would either > never find out (which rarely happens because I am too stubborn) or it > takes so long, I forget that I was looking for info on it. With this > group, so much info has been opened up to me, as well as the chance > to connect with other individuals who feel the same about their > trains as I do. I just wanted to say thanks. I hope I never offend > anyone and I hope someday I can return the favor. > > Thanks, > Sean Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2379	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II

Hey Don,   Remove the ",html" in your address bar.   It will work then...   http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train   Sean Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote: Hi, Glad it is going well! BTW your site link does not work. Also 16 point? I got a bit of vision problem myself and only need 12. The settings for your computer are very setable. You might want to reset it. Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, <maobuch@... > wrote: > > As for me since I live so far away from both Amarillo, Texas as well as the OKC area. I seem to do most of my hobby supply ordering as well online. Other than using Walthers for my main hobby shop, it is one of the online ones that I have found and have found Hobby Time that is in Amarillo. But we do have a very nice train only hobby shop that I do try to spend time and monry at, which is in the OKC area. > > So far I have been very lucky not to have any or any major problems with any one of the three that I now am using to get what I may need for the hobby and layout. > > > Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch > http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html > PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can > See what you are saying to me !!! Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2380	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II

If you're using outlook express, click on "Tools" then click on "options" then click on "compose" and you can choose the font and type size that your messages will be sent and displayed in. That SHOULD make all the mails show up in the size you like. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 5:17 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II > Hi, > > Glad it is going well! > > BTW your site link does not work. > Also 16 point? I got a bit of vision problem myself and only need 12. > The settings for your computer are very setable. You might want to > reset it. > > Steamengine4449 > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <maobuch@...> wrote: >> >> As for me since I live so far away from both Amarillo, Texas as > well as the OKC area. I seem to do most of my hobby supply ordering > as well online. Other than using Walthers for my main hobby shop, it > is one of the online ones that I have found and have found Hobby Time > that is in Amarillo. But we do have a very nice train only hobby > shop that I do try to spend time and monry at, which is in the OKC > area. >> >> So far I have been very lucky not to have any or any major problems > with any one of the three that I now am using to get what I may need > for the hobby and layout. >> >> >> Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch >> http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html >> PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can >> See what you are saying to me !!! > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2381	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

----- Original Message ----- From: "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:08 AM Subject: [vintageHO] $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes! > So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel > boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds > with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was > truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the > ad. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK% > 3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1 > > Steamengine4449 It was the Lionel name. Ca. 1958-1960 or so Lionel HO WAS made by Athearn. You could also get Athearn at various times in boxes labled Herkimer, Cox and even ATLAS. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2382	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

Here's what you get when you click on the supplied link: This listing () has been removed or is no longer available. Please make sure you entered the right item number. Loren _________________________________________________________________ Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into something more. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2383	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

The link arrived broken, on two lines, it would not work. If you want to see the auction, you can go to ebay.com and enter  120077476700 as a search and the item should come up that way.   Wobbly913 Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Here's what you get when you click on the supplied link: This listing () has been removed or is no longer available. Please make sure you entered the right item number. Loren _________________________________________________________________ Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into something more. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2384	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

Don Riley   I collect those Athearn New Haven Snowv Birds.  I have three ABA sets of them, all HiF plus one that is a gear drive.  I am also trying to put together a set of coaches. So when I saw the auction for the still in their boxes Lionel Snow Birds I thought it would be my perfect opportunity to finish the collection as it not only had the engines but most of a passenger car set all in original Lionel boxes. I noted that the passenger cars were the old Athearn/Globe cars put together from individual sides, ends and roofs. I decided I would bid a maximum bid of $80.00 based on $10.00 for each of the 4 coaches plus $20.00 for each of the two HiF F7A's. I always bid during the last 20 to 30 seconds of the auction. I watched in amazement as they sold for that $405.00 .   Wobbly913   Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote: So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the ad. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK% 3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1 Steamengine4449 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2385	From: pvande1@comcast.net	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

Attachments : Go to Ebay and drop this item number into the search box - 120077476700 phil -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> > Here's what you get when you click on the supplied link: > > This listing () has been removed or is no longer available. Please make sure > you entered the right item number. > > Loren > > _________________________________________________________________ > Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into > something more. > http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gr > atitude&FORM=WLMTAG >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2386	From: wallagus	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?

I have a diecast Mantua shark with a few broken steps. Does anyone know of a replacement (detail part) step that is a good match for the remaining cast steps? thanks, phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2387	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Hi Mike, I am guessing you are referring to the Pacer Canopy Glue, I pointed out. I haven't used it yet, but will take your word that it is not similar to Elmers. However, Scotty Mason, discusses its use in the DVD, "Building Craftsman Structure Kits". He uses it just like you would White Glue, on plaster, wood, everything. It even looks like White Glue...in the DVD anyway. The really nice part about it is that you can literally create window glass in smaller pane sizes without actually using glass or clear plastic. If you do need to use clear plastic, this is supposed to be the BEST stuff for gluing it. Now, what I REALLY want to know is, if they sell this at Michaels under a different name, that may be the way to go? Do you happen to know what it is called at Michaels? Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:21:46 -0500 Vic: This is not similar to a white glue at all, not even in the same class, but you can get it at a Michael store under another name, and it is the same has what MircoScale has for doing windows, and that Testors has out for clear parts and windows, but it is not anywhere close to being the same has Elmers white glue or even the yellow glue you are talking about. Just wanted to clear that up. Mike Looney _________________________________________________________________ Valentine�s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2388	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies

Dear Don,   The source of my info was a BBC docudrama on the building of the pyramids. The ties were found, and the main transport of the stones were huge sleds with runners that were the rails. the ties were lubricated with oil fats and such to reduce any friction. "Ties" and "runners (rails of a sort)", but the wheel was not in that civilization's repetoire then. Hence, two-thirds of the way to railroading. The Hyksos immigrants to Egypt would bring horse-drawn chariots to that civilization-and a civil war not all that long later (another story.) The Egyptians made one major modification to the Hyksos war chariot design for speed and maneuverability that would find its use in later Greek and Roman designs...and that four feet and eight and a half inches between the railheads we enjoy seems to come from a standard Roman chariot gauge. Hmmm??? That was many centuries after the pyramids at Giza were built.   If you look at something in the ancient New World, archeologists wonder if somebody did not have your "street car", but maybe for building reasons. One ancient South American stone city area has "parallel ruts" cut into the stone...with "switch turnouts". The "ruts" were said to be cut into the stone, not from long periods of erosion and wear. The parallel spacing suggests "gauge". I do not think this supported any ancient mass transit system.   Primitive rail-like operations were found to result in these wonders of the world...not flying saucers and little gray men, ala Erik van Danniken. Applying existing technologies can result in some concepts being primitive forerunners of later developments. If I say America's "first AWACS" was a Union Army balloon with a crew of two officer/observers and an enlisted telegrapher...I cause a few eyes to open.  The C.S.S. Hunley, now at the Charleston (SC) Navy Yard, is a submarine...simple, primitive, and was lost because of its successful attack upon the U.S.S. Housitanic. All those German wolfpacks and  U.S./U.S.S.R.missile launching subs came much later. Mankind has to begin somewhere...that is his technological history. Mount a stone on a stick and today we have what? Need I say more?   John Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote: That is all VERY interesting! ! I did not know they came that close to inventing Railroading. Makes me wonder how close they really got.... IE rail and horse drawn cars I suppose... I have wondered how those HUGE pyramids were made. Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > > Folks, > > An ancient army with its navy was pharoah's. Recruits all went through "boot", and the VHS tape I have (30 minutes long) would make Vets cringe with the similarities of things they did way back when at "Basic". Not changed much in 3,000 to 4,000 years, starting with haircuts. Upon completion, some got assigned to Nile transports as deck hands (the ancient Egyptians never had a deep-water navy...they had a defense pact with the Minoans who provided "blue water" defense.) One tomb they discovered near a small town was an ancient local boy who did good-seven gold necklaces (equivalent of today's Congressional Medal of Honor.) He was Crew Commander Ohkmos (Navy?)...he rose through the enlisted ranks and lived to retire at age 55 (very old in those days.) He got into some battles, starting with Avaris in the Nile Delta Region. I think he was Ancient Egypt's "Audie Murphy"-and an army brat to boot. His tomb walls' hieroglyphs tell the story of one career military man's > life-like his "201 file." Only one private rose to a higher rank- Horrumheb"-and he was a general who became pharoah for about 24 years. > > Off subject? Consider that the ancient Egyptians were two-thirds of the way to inventing the railroad as they built the Great Pyramid at Giza (Khufu's pyramid.) Egyptologists found "ties" embedded in a resin-coated surfaces that topped the ramps they used-and those ancient folk even invented switch turn-out ties. Very close...very close... > > John Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2389	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Wheelsets

Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now. A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he needed to set the CV. And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago (Central Valley), what do folks use now? TNX

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2390	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

Boy, they sure ARE having problems with group e-mails! I esent this middle of last week! Dave > Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now. > A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he > needed to set the CV. > And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago > (Central Valley), what do folks use now? > > TNX >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2391	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

I have had very good results using Proto 2000 wheelsets, but, after spending a fair amount on replacement sets for a dozen cars, I realize that I need some kind of bulk purchase arrangement for the remaining 150+ cars with plastic wheels. Buying a dozen axles at a time just isn't going to cut it from a cost perspective - I need 500 axle sets! Any suggestions? Mike curmudgeon wrote: > > > Boy, they sure ARE having problems with group e-mails! > I esent this middle of last week! > Dave > > > Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now. > > A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he > > needed to set the CV. > > And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago > > (Central Valley), what do folks use now? > > > > TNX > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.14/658 - Release Date: 1/29/2007 2:49 PM -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@...> Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2392	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

Mike,   Check the Walthers catalog and then write to the company of your choice to see what, if any, bulk purchase deal you can set up. It may work-it may not.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: I have had very good results using Proto 2000 wheelsets, but, after spending a fair amount on replacement sets for a dozen cars, I realize that I need some kind of bulk purchase arrangement for the remaining 150+ cars with plastic wheels. Buying a dozen axles at a time just isn't going to cut it from a cost perspective - I need 500 axle sets! Any suggestions? Mike curmudgeon wrote: > > > Boy, they sure ARE having problems with group e-mails! > I esent this middle of last week! > Dave > > > Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now. > > A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he > > needed to set the CV. > > And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago > > (Central Valley), what do folks use now? > > > > TNX > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.14/658 - Release Date: 1/29/2007 2:49 PM -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@verizon. net> Website: <www.geocities. com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/ mikesloane> I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989) Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2393	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep

Definitely--particularly the stuff from Badger. At one time I proposed a contest at PCR--actually two.  Accuflex, throw for distance, and throw for accuracy.  I actually had some solidify in factory sealed bottles. Floquil Forever!   One thing I learned to keep handy when I had to use acrylics--an airbrush jar full of soapy water--when (not if) the paint job developed runs and sags it was immediately put on the brush and the offending paint coat flushed off.    I have been able to paint most plastics with Floquil without crazing.  Only exception--fifties Lionel F3 shells--I swear that those wrinkled up when set next to a sealed bottle of Floquil. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep You bring up a valid point, especially with the modern acrylic water-based paints in use today. They are really a major advancement in painting. No solvents, non-flammable, fast drying, air-brush clogging, impossible to get a smooth 2nd coat with, gloss beads up and ruins the entire paint job, drives ME NUTS, I HATE USING THE GOOEY CRAP!!! --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@.. .> wrote: >   > I have switched to things like Scotch Brite* instead of steel wool in my etching plant/studio/ factory and it doea the job well. Steel wool has an annoying habit of rusting. Maybe not as quickly in the hobby room, but your may nevertheless have bits of steel and/or rust influencing your paintwork. Substitues may often be had in the "dollar" stores, too. >    >   My 2 cents' worth... >    >   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) > > Garrett and Libby Rea <glmp1995@...> wrote: >   Steel wool works wonders. > > Garrett

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2394	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

A caution--a building inspector friend told me that PVC pipe is NOT allowed for compressed air--use iron. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... Thanks Don, I may just stick to my original plan and run an airline down to the basement from the compressor in the attached toy box, oops make that GARAGE..  <VBG> I'll put a regulator and traps on it too of course.. <G> Dave S. (Cheapskate in training). Don Dellmann wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Slater To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit... Don, Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like that to prevent "surges"??? Dave S. Badger claims you don't need it being a diaphragm unit. I did get a tank (actually an old truck air brake resevoir from work), and a regulator and it does help, even if for no other reason than to charge up the tank and not make a lot of noise while you're painting. The only down size is these things only put out about 30-35 PSI, fine for solvent paint, but maybe a little light for acrylics. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2395	From: jay matz	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

I have gone to Life-Like Proto 200. Get the reamer to do the sideframes,Micro-Mark sells them. Jay curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2396	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &

At this time it's not worth pursuing--I just don't buy their kits. Besides, there are better car kits available now--back then, they were fairly good with a lot of Grandt parts added. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Glenn,   I don't know what to say, but if the new ownership inherited any of its past indebtedness- you may be part of that and should bellow at them-if you have documentation of purchase or money sent. I have a hunch you did business with them out of Rockhill Furnace...I have no idea what they were like or what the new group is like out of Lewistown. Cannot hurt to touch base.   John Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: I kept getting "delaying" responses--then the company was sold-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Glenn,   I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?) Dear Don and Group,   Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.   To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.   Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits? Dear Maryann,   To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.   Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.   Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes. (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."   Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.   One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.   I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote: I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build? If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to this group. Yours Truly, Maryann DU and OA Railway Company http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I have. See that file for more INFO... Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2397	From: jay matz	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

Mike I went to my local hobby dealer , ask him for a price on bulk wheelsets he gave me a great price. I bought 250 sets. Jay Mi Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2398	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost

Disparage not. You will find a replacement. Besides, you should see the looks I get from Denverites (CO) when I tell them the old D&RGW was into serious negotiations decades ago to acquire a GG1 from the PRR for test purposes here in Colorado. Electrifying the "Moffat Line" through the Tuneel? Yep! Now picture a GG1 in silver-yellow-black. For many it boggles the mind.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote: Yeah I hear you there! I have been happy with most of mine too. The worst was an IHC GG1. It looked great in the pic but the one I got was smashed at BOTH ends! That really REALLY bummed me out! I still have not gotten a replacement. Do not think of it most of the time. BTW yes I am a GG1 fan even though it is a bit out of my line. My main RR is Southern Pacific. Second is CNW. My concept RR has them interchanging with a yard. Yes I like switchyards. Sadly I do not have room right now for it. So I have a small layout. But still GG1s are soo cool! I have never bought one with no picture. I have rarely even seen one with no picture. Stemaengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > I must agree with everything you said John. For me, it is bid onece, bid the max I am willing to pay and bid within the last 7 seconds... If I get it, great! If no, move on... If it goes over my max, I do not bid! I have had a couple thousand transactions and I can count on one hand the number I have been truely unhappy with... > One more hint... > Really look at the picture... If the seller does not have a picture in the listing, but he has pictures in other listings... Really question what it is he/she is selling... I learned that one... > > Sean Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2399	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)

my problem is I hit the dam "Caps Lock" key and get a line farther before I catch it.  doesn't seem to be a way to correct it--short of deleting and retyping. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...) Gee, fred, I thought it was only us old guys that had that problem. Heck you're, lets see now, 4 years my junior so.... --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@. ..> wrote: > > John, it happens to me all the time. Wish I could move that button easily. Too many times I touch it lightly when trying to type "S" instead of "s" and send the darned e-mail without finishing it. > > John Hagen <sprinthag@. ..> wrote: Boy I hate it when I press the "ctrl" key instead of the "shift" key. > The message was supposed to read "Might, I'll let you know. Thanks" > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2400	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

I watch for When Walthers has the Intermountains on sale, a hundred wheelsets for $50. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Wheelsets >I have had very good results using Proto 2000 wheelsets, but, after > spending a fair amount on replacement sets for a dozen cars, I realize > that I need some kind of bulk purchase arrangement for the remaining > 150+ cars with plastic wheels. Buying a dozen axles at a time just isn't > going to cut it from a cost perspective - I need 500 axle sets! Any > suggestions? > > Mike > > curmudgeon wrote: >> >> >> Boy, they sure ARE having problems with group e-mails! >> I esent this middle of last week! >> Dave >> >> > Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now. >> > A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he >> > needed to set the CV. >> > And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago >> > (Central Valley), what do folks use now? >> > >> > TNX >> > >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.14/658 - Release Date: >> 1/29/2007 2:49 PM > > -- > Mike Sloane > Allamuchy NJ > <mikesloane@...> > Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> > Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> > > I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. > It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989) > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2401	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

I've put Kadee wheels in CV sideframes and come up with a truck that rolled better than the CV's did originally. Intermountains and P2K wheels also work well. The only place Intermountains have given me trouble is in sprung Varney sideframes, but there the Kadees seemed to do fine. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 2:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Wheelsets > Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now. > A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he > needed to set the CV. > And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago > (Central Valley), what do folks use now? > > TNX > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2402	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

hmm. I was very careful, even typing vertically, and it sent by iteslf. Anyway, I know about reamers, done that with straight journals. There is a reamer for needle point bearings? Dave > > I have gone to Life-Like Proto 200. > Get the reamer to do the sideframes,Micro-Mark sells them. > Jay > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2403	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

recently somebody had an Athearn SD-45 with a$1500 starting bid----claimed "rare"-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes! Don Riley   I collect those Athearn New Haven Snowv Birds.  I have three ABA sets of them, all HiF plus one that is a gear drive.  I am also trying to put together a set of coaches. So when I saw the auction for the still in their boxes Lionel Snow Birds I thought it would be my perfect opportunity to finish the collection as it not only had the engines but most of a passenger car set all in original Lionel boxes. I noted that the passenger cars were the old Athearn/Globe cars put together from individual sides, ends and roofs. I decided I would bid a maximum bid of $80.00 based on $10.00 for each of the 4 coaches plus $20.00 for each of the two HiF F7A's. I always bid during the last 20 to 30 seconds of the auction. I watched in amazement as they sold for that $405.00 .   Wobbly913   Don RIley <steamengine4449us@ yahoo.com> wrote: So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the ad. http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK% 3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1 Steamengine4449 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2404	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost

One book--I think "Rio Grande--To the Pacific!" had something on the electrification proposal--locos shown looked like the big Virginian cab units--or "single-ended" GN W-1's in pairs. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost Disparage not. You will find a replacement. Besides, you should see the looks I get from Denverites (CO) when I tell them the old D&RGW was into serious negotiations decades ago to acquire a GG1 from the PRR for test purposes here in Colorado. Electrifying the "Moffat Line" through the Tuneel? Yep! Now picture a GG1 in silver-yellow- black. For many it boggles the mind.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Don RIley <steamengine4449us@ yahoo.com> wrote: Yeah I hear you there! I have been happy with most of mine too. The worst was an IHC GG1. It looked great in the pic but the one I got was smashed at BOTH ends! That really REALLY bummed me out! I still have not gotten a replacement. Do not think of it most of the time. BTW yes I am a GG1 fan even though it is a bit out of my line. My main RR is Southern Pacific. Second is CNW. My concept RR has them interchanging with a yard. Yes I like switchyards. Sadly I do not have room right now for it. So I have a small layout. But still GG1s are soo cool! I have never bought one with no picture. I have rarely even seen one with no picture. Stemaengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > I must agree with everything you said John. For me, it is bid onece, bid the max I am willing to pay and bid within the last 7 seconds... If I get it, great! If no, move on... If it goes over my max, I do not bid! I have had a couple thousand transactions and I can count on one hand the number I have been truely unhappy with... > One more hint... > Really look at the picture... If the seller does not have a picture in the listing, but he has pictures in other listings... Really question what it is he/she is selling... I learned that one... > > Sean Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2405	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Victor: I think the name they have at Michael's is called Gallery Glass, it should be in the dollhouse section, for making stain glass for small windows. Now it come in many colors, plus if I remember right you can get the green metallic for use on telephone poles to give that look of a insulator on top of the telephone pole Mike Looney

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2406	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?

Check the Bowser website. I believe that Cal Scale makes a replacement for this. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "wallagus" <pvande1@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps? Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:54:22 -0000 I have a diecast Mantua shark with a few broken steps. Does anyone know of a replacement (detail part) step that is a good match for the remaining cast steps? thanks, phil _________________________________________________________________ FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo � buy and sell with people you know http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com?s_cid=Hotmail_tagline_12/06

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2407	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?

190-148 is one > > Check the Bowser website. I believe that Cal Scale makes a replacement for > this. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "wallagus" <pvande1@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps? > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:54:22 -0000 > > I have a diecast Mantua shark with a few broken steps. Does anyone > know of a replacement (detail part) step that is a good match for the > remaining cast steps? > > thanks, > > phil > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo – buy and sell with people > you know > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://expo.live.com?s_cid=Hotmail_tagline_12/06 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2408	From: Randy	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away

The Heber Valley Railroad here in Utah also has an operational MRS-1. Randy Jones SLC UT

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2409	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away

Noted on the Internet with photo of the Heber Valley.   John Randy <rdj_smj@...> wrote: The Heber Valley Railroad here in Utah also has an operational MRS-1. Randy Jones SLC UT Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2410	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!

lol! WOW!! I could not afford to pay that much. Sadly I resently missed the opertunity to get a Pacific. It went for like 35 on ebay. Real bummer. But I am kinda broke anyway. I see the monsters now and then. Saw one of those go resently too. Athearn made yet another yard engine. An 0-6-0 do not see them as much. Was even offered lettered for Southern Pacific! It woudl be way cool to have one of them. The Pacific did not come lettered for SP. Though SP had LOTS of Pacifics. Infact the RR museum in volenteer with has one. I know what you mean about Marx. They are VERY toyish! Those band powered engines will FLY!! Yes we have all done it. I have a table layout with a figure 8 over and under. And even then I can make um fly. And yes I have done it! I too have a set of NH engines and I have flown um around the layout. I do not think they have ever gone off though. I have lost Hustlers over the side. Those things will REALLY fly! I know what you mean about lack of space. I too have little. Hope to get more on the next move. But that might be a while. Don aka STeamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Don, > A couple of things... > > I am actually glad to see I am not the youngest! > > I just sold the second athearn pacific steam engine I have ever seen up close for $75+ 330072471683, I never knew it would go that high... I was hoping for $36 since it was a kit, but it was mising one pipe. They are pretty rare. Even more rare to come my way is the only Athearn Little Monster 0-4-0, which I have not decided to do with yet. It is a complete kit in the box as well, but it is missing the box cover... This is the first one I have ever seen up close... > > I am always looking for Athearn or Lionel Rectifiers. I think I have 4 or 6 of them now.. I just traded a newly found friend and member of this group a Bachmann climax (new in the box) and some brass detail pieces of his choosing for an american flyer 0-6-0 smoke unit, a New Haven Box car, a Central Valley Valve gear Kit and a Lionel Rectifier (Missing two steps). The road I "Run" is New Haven, which actually had those engines. I put "Run" in quotes, because I have not had a layout in 18 years. Having two moster todlers and a two bedroom house, I do not have the space for one now. > > As for the marx set... Sold it for $50 when I was 15 to a guy who had an ad in the MR. I never really liked the Marx Set. It never ran good and always required cleaning. Besides it looked too toy like for me... I probably purchased mor New Haven equipment with it. As for the Athearn F7s... I do not think the engines made it... I beat the hell out of them. I had a straight stretch on my layout that I would go full throttle on. It ended in a 18" rad curve... Once, as my vintage New haven White F7 engine pair hit the wall at the other end, I clocked it at 260 miles per hour (scale speed). I think I sold them as "Junk" two years ago, but immediatly replaced them with exactly the same engine (but mint) ..several times over, maybe - probably out of gilt, now I have a boot box full of the white New Haven F7s. > > I also have a box full of athearn silver passenger car... I plan to make a matched set of the New Haven Budd Roger Williams. I made one off of photos, before I found plans. I plan to start over now. > > I still have all the cast metal details and people though. > > Later! Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2411	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

Yes I have looked into that. But still it was just Athearn. I ahve that train with Athearn NH whites and coaches. My coaches are newer and my engines have no boxes. So who knows where they came from. Herkimer cars are way cool! They only made passenger cars and one caboose. So all other stuff was Athearn. VERY interesting that Atlas used Athearn equipment at one time!! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > It was the Lionel name. Ca. 1958-1960 or so Lionel HO WAS made by Athearn. > > You could also get Athearn at various times in boxes labled Herkimer, Cox > and even ATLAS. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2412	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

WOW!! Man you got lots of those engines! Yeah it would have been a nice set at that rate. But man it flew! Don Riley --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > > Don Riley > > I collect those Athearn New Haven Snowv Birds. I have three ABA sets of them, all HiF plus one that is a gear drive. I am also trying to put together a set of coaches. So when I saw the auction for the still in their boxes Lionel Snow Birds I thought it would be my perfect opportunity to finish the collection as it not only had the engines but most of a passenger car set all in original Lionel boxes. I noted that the passenger cars were the old Athearn/Globe cars put together from individual sides, ends and roofs. > I decided I would bid a maximum bid of $80.00 based on $10.00 for each of the 4 coaches plus $20.00 for each of the two HiF F7A's. I always bid during the last 20 to 30 seconds of the auction. I watched in amazement as they sold for that $405.00 . > > Wobbly913

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2413	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies

John, Very interesting indeed!! Yes they were so close. I too have seen about the 4ft 8 1/2 inch thing. Amazing how that gauge lasted! And seemingly will for a LONG time to come! I had not realized the ruts were cute. I thought they came with age. Interesting indeed! Don aka Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Dear Don, > > The source of my info was a BBC docudrama on the building of the pyramids. The > ties were found, and the main transport of the stones were huge sleds with runners that were the rails. the ties were lubricated with oil fats and such to reduce any friction. "Ties" and "runners (rails of a sort)", but the wheel was not in that civilization's repetoire then. Hence, two-thirds of the way to railroading. The Hyksos immigrants to Egypt would bring horse-drawn chariots to that civilization-and a civil war not all that long later (another story.) The Egyptians made one major modification to the Hyksos war chariot design for speed and maneuverability that would find its use in later Greek and Roman designs...and that four feet and eight and a half inches between the railheads we enjoy seems to come from a standard Roman chariot gauge. Hmmm??? That was many centuries after the pyramids at Giza were built. > > If you look at something in the ancient New World, archeologists wonder if somebody did not have your "street car", but maybe for building reasons. One ancient South American > stone city area has "parallel ruts" cut into the stone...with "switch turnouts". The "ruts" were said to be cut into the stone, not from long periods of erosion and wear. The parallel spacing suggests "gauge". I do not think this supported any ancient mass transit system. > > Primitive rail-like operations were found to result in these wonders of the world...not flying saucers and little gray men, ala Erik van Danniken. Applying existing technologies can result in some concepts being primitive forerunners of later developments. If I say America's "first AWACS" was a Union Army balloon with a crew of two officer/observers and an enlisted telegrapher...I cause a few eyes to open. The C.S.S. Hunley, now at the Charleston (SC) Navy Yard, is a submarine...simple, primitive, and was lost because of its successful attack upon the U.S.S. Housitanic. All those German wolfpacks and U.S./U.S.S.R.missile launching subs came much later. Mankind has to begin somewhere...that is his technological history. Mount a stone on a stick and today we have what? Need I say more? > > John

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2414	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

I remember that! It was an old Santa Fe one. From purhapes the first run of SD45s. Yeah nothing rare there. Never could figure whey he did that. Others sold those SD45s for the regular going rate. Hell I almost bought one just for the hell of it! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > recently somebody had an Athearn SD-45 with a$1500 starting bid---- claimed "rare"--

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2415	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost

Yes I am sure I will. I have haerd tale of the electrifying. But never GG1s. And nothing came of the idea. Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Disparage not. You will find a replacement. Besides, you should see the looks I get from Denverites (CO) when I tell them the old D&RGW was into serious negotiations decades ago to acquire a GG1 from the PRR for test purposes here in Colorado. Electrifying the "Moffat Line" through the Tuneel? Yep! Now picture a GG1 in silver-yellow-black. For many it boggles the mind.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2416	From: John Barlow	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Parallel Thinking in the Past..

Dear Don,   I don't think the D&RGW back when was "locked into" a GG1 but scrounging around for an electric to "play" with out here. The "parallel thinking" may be that, as one friend here suggested, they saw the Milwaukee Road and Great Northern (especially the latter) doing things with catenary in the Cascade Mountains around that time. Why not the Moffat Line too?    The PRR's  own electrification was planned to go all the way to Pittsburgh, but the Second World War was also looming and there were, as I understand, questions about electrifyng the Horseshoe Curve (I am not sure how much of an issue that really was.) To be certain, the GG1 and others were feared not to be up to the grades west of Harrisburg, but with traction motors I think they would have proven up to the task nicely.   In a fossil fuel rich society, diesel technology came to the forefront as coal-fired locomotives were about to max-out. The electric locomotive lacked a key aspect-call it "maneuverability". It was/is leashed to the catenary-fine for main lines-not good for small branches and extended sidings. The diesel filled that gap nicely.   Argueably, if the Northeast Corridor had not been built when it was, it would have never been built. The diesel's emergence, in a decade, would have brushed it aside...out of mind. The later application of nuclear power to supplying cheap electricity...I don't think it would have mattered either. The then early municipal environmental arguments lent themselves well to its being built...cities tired of steam locomotive pollution. The New York City Hudson River tunnels were another point, but third rail was in place there.   The man I mentioned before had an unheralded role in the D&RGW's dieselization. Some might curse his memory for that, but he told me of his first diesel ride from Denver through the Moffat Tunnel to Salt Lake City on a F-3 (I think). The freight his train was hauling had four units, two A's and two B's. It was approaching the Rocky Flats area (site of the later nuclear bomb trigger plant-now closed) when he spied a smaller (in total consist) freight with a beautiful articulated steam loco on the front. It was taking on water at the tower there and sort of resting for the long climb up into the Rocky Mountains.   "Shouldn't we be taking on water, too?" he asked the engineer.   The man looked at his gauges and said: "No, Professor, these babies are doing just fine."   He looked out the door of the diesel cab as it continued on, seeming to glide by the old steamer. He said he knew at that moment, the days of the D&RGW's steam locomotives were numbered...and his evaluation report would be part of it. It was not a joyful duty.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)       TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2417	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

I HATE it when those idiots use the word rare! Some use it, dispite having little to no prior model train experience, because it is the first time they ever saw it. Most use it to describe every piece they sell. I think thay use it because they think it will help, and sometimes it does. There are so many idiots out that have no idea what they are buying, the they pay for it. I saw it used once on an Athearn F7. Sean Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote: I remember that! It was an old Santa Fe one. From purhapes the first run of SD45s. Yeah nothing rare there. Never could figure whey he did that. Others sold those SD45s for the regular going rate. Hell I almost bought one just for the hell of it! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > recently somebody had an Athearn SD-45 with a$1500 starting bid---- claimed "rare"-- Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2418	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort. I only do a couple of cars at a time, so it doesn't get boring. While I am doing wheel sets, I take the time to "tune up" the trucks and their mounting to make sure they swivel easily and one of the pair is allowed to have some free lateral motion, while the other can only turn (not tip). I also check the Kaydee couplers for smooth motion, knuckle springs, etc. I haven't tried them yet, but it seems to me that some of the older Mantua trucks will not take the new axles, due to using very small diameter axles. For now, I am just putting a small Post-it "flag" on the top of each car to identify the ones that have been updated. Mike jay matz wrote: > > > I have gone to Life-Like Proto 200. > Get the reamer to do the sideframes,Micro-Mark sells them. > Jay > -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@...> Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2419	From: rcjge	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I HATE it when those idiots use the word rare! Some use it, dispite having little to no prior model train experience, because it is the first time they ever saw it. Most use it to describe every piece they sell. I think thay use it because they think it will help, and sometimes it does. There are so many idiots out that have no idea what they are buying, the they pay for it. I saw it used once on an Athearn F7. > Sean On the other hand sometimes... I picked up an earlier U-28B in N&W paint for $17 that I'm pretty delighted with. Apparently not common, though I may be wrong. NIB. A ffriend on the Tyco Collectors forum who is a U-Boat freak is trying to pry it from my hands but its my token GE, being an Alco cultist! Cheers, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2420	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

I believe the "reamer" is made only for plastic trucks and is not supposed to be used for metal trucks, like CV or Kadee. I am not sure where I read this, but I did. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wheelsets Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:40:57 -0500 I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort. I only do a couple of cars at a time, so it doesn't get boring. While I am doing wheel sets, I take the time to "tune up" the trucks and their mounting to make sure they swivel easily and one of the pair is allowed to have some free lateral motion, while the other can only turn (not tip). I also check the Kaydee couplers for smooth motion, knuckle springs, etc. I haven't tried them yet, but it seems to me that some of the older Mantua trucks will not take the new axles, due to using very small diameter axles. For now, I am just putting a small Post-it "flag" on the top of each car to identify the ones that have been updated. Mike jay matz wrote: > > > I have gone to Life-Like Proto 200. > Get the reamer to do the sideframes,Micro-Mark sells them. > Jay > -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@...> Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989) _________________________________________________________________ Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into something more. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2421	From: jay matz	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

Vic I have used the reamer on plastic and metal sideframes. Branchline has wheelsets with different length axels, the sprung trucks use longer axels. Jay Vi . Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2422	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

Yep, I have to, but since I read somewhere that you should not, I gave up the practice......unless the metal sideframes REALLY need it. I will definitely keep that to a minimum. I think that what happens is the metal sideframes where down the cutting edge very quickly. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: jay matz <dlw455@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wheelsets Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:01:33 -0800 (PST) Vic I have used the reamer on plastic and metal sideframes. Branchline has wheelsets with different length axels, the sprung trucks use longer axels. Jay Vi .. --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _________________________________________________________________ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2423	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

now the "Athearn" I would consider "rare" might be an original pair of Globe F-7's, painted gold or silver, in the original boxes.  ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:41 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes! I HATE it when those idiots use the word rare! Some use it, dispite having little to no prior model train experience, because it is the first time they ever saw it. Most use it to describe every piece they sell. I think thay use it because they think it will help, and sometimes it does. There are so many idiots out that have no idea what they are buying, the they pay for it. I saw it used once on an Athearn F7. Sean Don RIley <steamengine4449us@ yahoo.com> wrote: I remember that! It was an old Santa Fe one. From purhapes the first run of SD45s. Yeah nothing rare there. Never could figure whey he did that. Others sold those SD45s for the regular going rate. Hell I almost bought one just for the hell of it! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > recently somebody had an Athearn SD-45 with a$1500 starting bid---- claimed "rare"-- Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2424	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

that's sort of a "watching football" project-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Sloane To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:40 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wheelsets I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort. I only do a couple of cars at a time, so it doesn't get boring. While I am doing wheel sets, I take the time to "tune up" the trucks and their mounting to make sure they swivel easily and one of the pair is allowed to have some free lateral motion, while the other can only turn (not tip). I also check the Kaydee couplers for smooth motion, knuckle springs, etc. I haven't tried them yet, but it seems to me that some of the older Mantua trucks will not take the new axles, due to using very small diameter axles. For now, I am just putting a small Post-it "flag" on the top of each car to identify the ones that have been updated. Mike jay matz wrote: > > > I have gone to Life-Like Proto 200. > Get the reamer to do the sideframes,Micro- Mark sells them. > Jay > -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@verizon. net> Website: <www.geocities. com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/ mikesloane> I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2425	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

Mike Sloane wrote: > I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing > more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort. Is the reamer for plastic only or can it be used on metal trucks too? -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ Honk if you love peace and quiet.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2426	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Cover photo contest.

One more day to get your pictures in for the cover photo contest. Thursday I will be starting a poll to vote for your favorite, the voting will run through February. If you have any questions, the "rules" are in the files section, or please ask. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2427	From: jay matz	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

rick I have used it on white metal trucks,not Brass Brass is hard. Jay Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: Mike Sloane wrote: > I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing > more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort. Is the reamer for plastic only or can it be used on metal trucks too? -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocitie s.com/seventysix inchesoffun/ Honk if you love peace and quiet. Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2428	From: Wobbly913	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

I have created an album in the photo section on the group homepage called  Wobbly913. In it I have put a few pictures of some of my "vintage Athearn" models.   The first picture is of my Gold Globes.  The one with the silver trucks has an original Globe power chasis, it still runs quite nicely. The second picture is my Globe silver B units, I have an A, but cannot locate it now. The third picture is an ABBA set of Globe Union Pacific plastic frame diesels. The fourth picture is part of my Snow Bird collection. The fifth picture is my New Haven RDC tri color collection. Last but not least is my Hustler collection.  The closed yellow box contains a Silver 57, left closed to show the box top.  It doesn't often snow here in Sacramento, but there are three Hustler snow plows ready for when it does. There is also a picture of 3 extra orange snow plows should they ever be needed.   Wobbly913 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: now the "Athearn" I would consider "rare" might be an original pair of Globe F-7's, painted gold or silver, in the original boxes.  ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:41 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes! I HATE it when those idiots use the word rare! Some use it, dispite having little to no prior model train experience, because it is the first time they ever saw it. Most use it to describe every piece they sell. I think thay use it because they think it will help, and sometimes it does. There are so many idiots out that have no idea what they are buying, the they pay for it. I saw it used once on an Athearn F7. Sean Don RIley <steamengine4449us@ yahoo.com> wrote: I remember that! It was an old Santa Fe one. From purhapes the first run of SD45s. Yeah nothing rare there. Never could figure whey he did that. Others sold those SD45s for the regular going rate. Hell I almost bought one just for the hell of it! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > recently somebody had an Athearn SD-45 with a$1500 starting bid---- claimed "rare"-- Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2429	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!

Hey Don, Somehow, your message never made it to my mailbox. I just wanted to add.... The reason I was able to get so much speed on the straight stretch and have the engines fly off without even attempting to make the bend is because it was about an 18 foot long straigh stretch of track... It was a shelf layout thet went around my bedroom when I was in JR High through highschool. I must admit, it was alot of fun then... Now, I hold the like they were made of crystal... Sean --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@...> wrote: > > lol! > > WOW!! I could not afford to pay that much. Sadly I resently missed > the opertunity to get a Pacific. It went for like 35 on ebay. Real > bummer. But I am kinda broke anyway. I see the monsters now and then. > Saw one of those go resently too. Athearn made yet another yard > engine. An 0-6-0 do not see them as much. Was even offered lettered > for Southern Pacific! It woudl be way cool to have one of them. The > Pacific did not come lettered for SP. Though SP had LOTS of Pacifics. > Infact the RR museum in volenteer with has one. > > I know what you mean about Marx. They are VERY toyish! > > Those band powered engines will FLY!! Yes we have all done it. I have > a table layout with a figure 8 over and under. And even then I can > make um fly. And yes I have done it! I too have a set of NH engines > and I have flown um around the layout. I do not think they have ever > gone off though. I have lost Hustlers over the side. Those things > will REALLY fly! > > I know what you mean about lack of space. I too have little. Hope to > get more on the next move. But that might be a while. > > Don > aka STeamengine4449 > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> > wrote: > > > > Hey Don, > > A couple of things... > > > > I am actually glad to see I am not the youngest! > > > > I just sold the second athearn pacific steam engine I have ever > seen up close for $75+ 330072471683, I never knew it would go that > high... I was hoping for $36 since it was a kit, but it was mising > one pipe. They are pretty rare. Even more rare to come my way is the > only Athearn Little Monster 0-4-0, which I have not decided to do > with yet. It is a complete kit in the box as well, but it is missing > the box cover... This is the first one I have ever seen up close... > > > > I am always looking for Athearn or Lionel Rectifiers. I think I > have 4 or 6 of them now.. I just traded a newly found friend and > member of this group a Bachmann climax (new in the box) and some > brass detail pieces of his choosing for an american flyer 0-6-0 smoke > unit, a New Haven Box car, a Central Valley Valve gear Kit and a > Lionel Rectifier (Missing two steps). The road I "Run" is New Haven, > which actually had those engines. I put "Run" in quotes, because I > have not had a layout in 18 years. Having two moster todlers and a > two bedroom house, I do not have the space for one now. > > > > As for the marx set... Sold it for $50 when I was 15 to a guy who > had an ad in the MR. I never really liked the Marx Set. It never ran > good and always required cleaning. Besides it looked too toy like for > me... I probably purchased mor New Haven equipment with it. As for > the Athearn F7s... I do not think the engines made it... I beat the > hell out of them. I had a straight stretch on my layout that I would > go full throttle on. It ended in a 18" rad curve... Once, as my > vintage New haven White F7 engine pair hit the wall at the other end, > I clocked it at 260 miles per hour (scale speed). I think I sold them > as "Junk" two years ago, but immediatly replaced them with exactly > the same engine (but mint) ..several times over, maybe - probably out > of gilt, now I have a boot box full of the white New Haven F7s. > > > > I also have a box full of athearn silver passenger car... I plan > to make a matched set of the New Haven Budd Roger Williams. I made > one off of photos, before I found plans. I plan to start over now. > > > > I still have all the cast metal details and people though. > > > > Later! Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2430	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"

Hey Guys, The custom Varney Lil Joe that looks like a yard goat now, is in MY "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder was sold to John, just last month. After he got it, he thanksd me, then he sent me an email saying he thought it had actually started off as a Mantua shell and not a varney..!!?? And he wrote the guide??? A quick, but close look will definately confirm it to be a varney... Just thought it to be a bit ironic... that's all! Sean ps.. I woiuld like to see the pics originally attached to this message. I have not figured out how to do that yet. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > You might contact Kalmbach who now owns Greenberg Publishing (who published the book - I have one). > > By the way, I got a Varney item off ebay long ago that might amuse both that author and this group. It is the "Li'L Raskal Wreck Proof Train". It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the book and you might mention that to the author is you reach him. > > I bought one that had pretty good contents in a pretty bad box. Later, another ebayer got a pretty good box with some missing contents. I thought the world would be better with at least one nice sample and sold mine to the guy to put together one fairly good set. And it definitely seems pretty "wreck proof". > > I have attached photos of the thing. > > Chuck Kinzer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andrew Emmerson > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:35 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel? > > > I would like to get in touch with John Spanagel about his Varney book and > just wondered if he is a member of this forum. > > His snail mail address is on the NMRA website but an e-mail would be simpler > and faster. Any help most welcome! > > Thanks, > Andrew Emmerson (in England) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2431	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hey Guys! I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this engine I have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, if anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i will gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first time I have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the Penn Line Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly smaller.. Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my core collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe when I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those old metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who makes them. Thanks, Sean --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys... > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I just > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure out > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > Nice little engine though... > Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2432	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreckproof train"

I'll send an email direct to you with the pictures attached.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreckproof train" Hey Guys, The custom Varney Lil Joe that looks like a yard goat now, is in MY "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder was sold to John, just last month. After he got it, he thanksd me, then he sent me an email saying he thought it had actually started off as a Mantua shell and not a varney..!!?? And he wrote the guide??? A quick, but close look will definately confirm it to be a varney... Just thought it to be a bit ironic... that's all! Sean ps.. I woiuld like to see the pics originally attached to this message. I have not figured out how to do that yet. --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@... > wrote: > > You might contact Kalmbach who now owns Greenberg Publishing (who published the book - I have one). > > By the way, I got a Varney item off ebay long ago that might amuse both that author and this group. It is the "Li'L Raskal Wreck Proof Train". It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the book and you might mention that to the author is you reach him. > > I bought one that had pretty good contents in a pretty bad box. Later, another ebayer got a pretty good box with some missing contents. I thought the world would be better with at least one nice sample and sold mine to the guy to put together one fairly good set. And it definitely seems pretty "wreck proof". > > I have attached photos of the thing. > > Chuck Kinzer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andrew Emmerson > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:35 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel? > > > I would like to get in touch with John Spanagel about his Varney book and > just wondered if he is a member of this forum. > > His snail mail address is on the NMRA website but an e-mail would be simpler > and faster. Any help most welcome! > > Thanks, > Andrew Emmerson (in England) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2433	From: Don RIley	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

LOL nothing rare about Athearn F7s. My line has a fleet of um. Yeah not much rare about Athearn. Though the old steamers and the Rectifyer kinda are. Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I HATE it when those idiots use the word rare! Some use it, dispite having little to no prior model train experience, because it is the first time they ever saw it. Most use it to describe every piece they sell. I think thay use it because they think it will help, and sometimes it does. There are so many idiots out that have no idea what they are buying, the they pay for it. I saw it used once on an Athearn F7. > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2434	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

The "reamer" is really more of a "cleaner" - I rarely get more then a little dirt from each twist, but that is all it takes to restore good performance to a truck. It is very nice to finish up a cleaning and wheelset replacement and spin the two axles and have them spin for thirty seconds or so - when the old plastic wheelsets would barely make it a couple of revolutions. I have thought many time that it would have made sense for the manufacturer to put a cutting edge on both ends of the reamer so that you could do both journals of a truck at the same time and save a LOT of time and trouble. That doesn't seem like too much to ask. Mike Rick Jones wrote: > > > Mike Sloane wrote: > > I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing > > more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort. > > Is the reamer for plastic only or can it be used on metal trucks too? > > -- > > Rick Jones -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@...> Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2435	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

Ok, ok, enough!    I am sold!   (:P)      Where do I get one of these reamers? You guys have convinced me! Thanks, Sean Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: The "reamer" is really more of a "cleaner" - I rarely get more then a little dirt from each twist, but that is all it takes to restore good performance to a truck. It is very nice to finish up a cleaning and wheelset replacement and spin the two axles and have them spin for thirty seconds or so - when the old plastic wheelsets would barely make it a couple of revolutions. I have thought many time that it would have made sense for the manufacturer to put a cutting edge on both ends of the reamer so that you could do both journals of a truck at the same time and save a LOT of time and trouble. That doesn't seem like too much to ask. Mike Rick Jones wrote: > > > Mike Sloane wrote: > > I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing > > more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort. > > Is the reamer for plastic only or can it be used on metal trucks too? > > -- > > Rick Jones -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@verizon. net> Website: <www.geocities. com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/ mikesloane> I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989) Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2436	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets

<http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=82838> Or go to <http://www.micromark.com/> and search for: truck tuner Mike sean naylor wrote: > > > Ok, ok, enough! I am sold! (:P) > > Where do I get one of these reamers? > You guys have convinced me! > Thanks, Sean > > */Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...>/* wrote: > > The "reamer" is really more of a "cleaner" - I rarely get more then a > little dirt from each twist, but that is all it takes to restore good > performance to a truck. It is very nice to finish up a cleaning and > wheelset replacement and spin the two axles and have them spin for > thirty seconds or so - when the old plastic wheelsets would barely make > it a couple of revolutions. > > I have thought many time that it would have made sense for the > manufacturer to put a cutting edge on both ends of the reamer so that > you could do both journals of a truck at the same time and save a > LOT of > time and trouble. That doesn't seem like too much to ask. > > Mike > -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@...> Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2437	From: oljoeoh	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hi; I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the large drivers and 3 with the small drivers. My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to well to running around the layout in the same direction for years. The driver axles eventually wore into the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a permanent wish to go only in the same direction it had been running in. The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring" drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you hold onto the original running gear. Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a single one that wasn't gear driven. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys! > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this engine I > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, if > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i will > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first time I > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the Penn Line > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly smaller.. > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my core > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe when > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those old > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who makes > them. > Thanks, Sean > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@> > wrote: > > > > Hey Guys... > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I > just > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure > out > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > > Nice little engine though... > > Sean > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2438	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hey Joe, First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not apear to be interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into place bu a square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and the electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add gears, but I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no tabs to slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the same worm gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis openings (on the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The other diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud and the tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is also mounted to the chassis on this one.  If you take the shells (bare with no chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded opening edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect that snce the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.   The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because it came baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight. My headlight works, by the way.   I would sure like to solve this mystery. Thanks, Sean oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: Hi; I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the large drivers and 3 with the small drivers. My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to well to running around the layout in the same direction for years. The driver axles eventually wore into the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a permanent wish to go only in the same direction it had been running in. The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring" drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you hold onto the original running gear. Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a single one that wasn't gear driven. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey Guys! > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this engine I > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, if > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i will > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first time I > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the Penn Line > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly smaller.. > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my core > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe when > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those old > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who makes > them. > Thanks, Sean > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ > > wrote: > > > > Hey Guys... > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I > just > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure > out > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > > Nice little engine though... > > Sean > > > It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2439	From: rcjge	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

Hi Guys: I don't mean to shock you but over the last year I have seen a tripling of the value in Tyco, yes Tyco values. This is Germaine because a year ago a Tyco GG-1 that I would have sold for $15 now I wouldn't part with for less than $50. You do the math! As to Athearn. In the Early 70's when I made my first pass through model trains, almost all my rolling stock was Tyco. My Motive roster was made up of an Athearn Hustler, Athearn PA-1's, and a Roundhouse Boxcab which I still have. What was Ubiquitous then is nostalic see RARE now. In the mid-80's I was working on Motorcycles for a living and based on those Honda's Yamaha's etc. The 60's Triumphs and BSA's had been junk BUt a ordinary Triumph from the late 50's to early 70's sells in the Metro Torotno area for over $6000.00! The relationship is that I loved that Athearn PA-1 (D&H) and I own 4 Hustlers currently. Hell I see Mantua centercab industrial switchers going for $50 in good condition. Time moves on and so does what vintage. The Blue box Athearns of the 60's-70's are going to have there turn, as will someday the last Atlas DC locomotives! ;-) Cheers, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@...> wrote: > > So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel > boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds > with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was > truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the > ad. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK% > 3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1 > > Steamengine4449 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2440	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

This is a good read if you want to see one view on the price of junk: http://www.trainweb.org/lfnwfan/html/Sociology.htm > Hi Guys: > > I don't mean to shock you but over the last year I have seen a > tripling of the value in Tyco, yes Tyco values. This is Germaine > because a year ago a Tyco GG-1 that I would have sold for $15 now I > wouldn't part with for less than $50. You do the math! As to Athearn. > In the Early 70's when I made my first pass through model trains, > almost all my rolling stock was Tyco. My Motive roster was made up of > an Athearn Hustler, Athearn PA-1's, and a Roundhouse Boxcab which I > still have. What was Ubiquitous then is nostalic see RARE now. In the > mid-80's I was working on Motorcycles for a living and based on those > Honda's Yamaha's etc. The 60's Triumphs and BSA's had been junk BUt a > ordinary Triumph from the late 50's to early 70's sells in the Metro > Torotno area for over $6000.00! The relationship is that I loved that > Athearn PA-1 (D&H) and I own 4 Hustlers currently. Hell I see Mantua > centercab industrial switchers going for $50 in good condition. Time > moves on and so does what vintage. The Blue box Athearns of the > 60's-70's are going to have there turn, as will someday the last Atlas > DC locomotives! ;-) > > Cheers, > Gareth > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@> > wrote: > > > > So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel > > boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds > > with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was > > truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the > > ad. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK% > > 3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1 > > > > Steamengine4449 > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2441	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > Thanks, > Sean > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney 6V Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power truck manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The wheels were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I suspect that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The Penn- Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, powered by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of the original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member. I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by Athearn would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this helps....Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2442	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hey Ken, Your instructions left on Monday, you should be getting them soon.   I will post pictures as soon as I get home from work, of thie underside of this engine, as well as the motor..although I hatte to tear it apart again. I had such trouble originally figuring out that it was shorting out and where it was shorting out. This is not a Varney drive... It looks more like the Penn Line, but it is made of brass. Ultimately, it could be a home made engine, but my gut (and my hope) is that it is not and that it is an earlier Whitcomb (By the way, thanks, I could not remember that). The drivers are the same size on the two I have... It has only one pulley on each shaft as well. I tried the rubber band and it just slipped off and would not stay in the pulley. Sean oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > Thanks, > Sean > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney 6V Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power truck manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The wheels were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I suspect that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The Penn- Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, powered by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of the original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member. I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by Athearn would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this helps....Ken Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2443	From: Ian Garton	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Hi Victor, Canopy glue can also be found as Super RC Z 56 glue. My local hobby store carries it and it can be found online: http://www.blackbearcc.com/glue.htm It's also great for adding crew members to locomotives because it gives you time to adjust them before it dries and it'll withstand shock and vibration. I never use it for wood though. I use Weldbond for that. Ian --- Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > Hi Mike, > I am guessing you are referring to the Pacer Canopy Glue, I pointed > out. I > haven't used it yet, but will take your word that it is not similar > to > Elmers. However, Scotty Mason, discusses its use in the DVD, > "Building > Craftsman Structure Kits". He uses it just like you would White > Glue, on > plaster, wood, everything. It even looks like White Glue...in the > DVD > anyway. The really nice part about it is that you can literally > create > window glass in smaller pane sizes without actually using glass or > clear > plastic. If you do need to use clear plastic, this is supposed to be > the > BEST stuff for gluing it. > Now, what I REALLY want to know is, if they sell this at Michaels > under a > different name, that may be the way to go? Do you happen to know > what it is > called at Michaels? > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a > wooden > kit... > Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:21:46 -0500 > > Vic: > This is not similar to a white glue at all, not even in the same > class, > but > you can get it at a Michael store under another name, and it is the > same has > what MircoScale has for doing windows, and that Testors has out for > clear > parts and windows, but it is not anywhere close to being the same has > Elmers > white glue or even the yellow glue you are talking about. Just wanted > to > clear that up. > Mike Looney __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2444	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Ok, I have added 5 more pics of the two engines, chassis and motors to compare... Sean   oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > Thanks, > Sean > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney 6V Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power truck manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The wheels were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I suspect that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The Penn- Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, powered by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of the original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member. I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by Athearn would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this helps....Ken Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2445	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Um.....I have a PennLine mini-dismal. One screw and they drop the chassis right out. The drives had enough clearance to have no shorts. Other interesting bitnon yours (and possibly last owner), is the vertical mullion innthe cab windows is not there, the windows are bigger, there are handrail stanchion holes on the cab and front of hood, the the cast handrail along the top of the hood is not there. It appears the front of the engine is a bit longer. Either heavily re-worked cosmetically (likely), which would add the possibility of a different drive (now more probable). I have a photo of mine on Yardbird in the photo section under Curmudgeon's cast Stuff. I can see re-doing the handrails, but the drive? > > Hey Ken, > Your instructions left on Monday, you should be getting them soon. > > I will post pictures as soon as I get home from work, of thie underside of this engine, as well as the motor..although I hatte to tear it apart again. I had such trouble originally figuring out that it was shorting out and where it was shorting out. This is not a Varney drive... It looks more like the Penn Line, but it is made of brass. Ultimately, it could be a home made engine, but my gut (and my hope) is that it is not and that it is an earlier Whitcomb (By the way, thanks, I could not remember that). The drivers are the same size on the two I have... It has only one pulley on each shaft as well. I tried the rubber band and it just slipped off and would not stay in the pulley. > Sean > > oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > Thanks, > > Sean > > > > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney 6V > Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power truck > manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The wheels > were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I suspect > that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The Penn- > Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, powered > by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of the > original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member. > > I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as > was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by Athearn > would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this > helps....Ken > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2446	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

More- I pulled mine down to look. My hood sides are different than yours. You blank area from the top louver to the edge of the side cover is longer. The front steps at the pilot have been removed, or not there. The air tank, fireman's side, your "straps" are straight up, even with the running boards. Mine curve around the tank and disappear under the running board. Rear steps are gone, front and rear decks are longer, no headlight, shorter and fatter stack, some kind of side window extensions inside the cab, and the bottom cover does not have a notch near the rear the PennLine original lower covers have. > > Ok, > I have added 5 more pics of the two engines, chassis and motors to compare... > Sean > > oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > Thanks, > > Sean > > > > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney 6V > Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power truck > manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The wheels > were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I suspect > that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The Penn- > Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, powered > by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of the > original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member. > > I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as > was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by Athearn > would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this > helps....Ken > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2447	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Looked at your picture. Narrower, shorter in height, no rivets, coupler boxes different, internal shape totally different. Okay, let's brainstorm this. They made an early one, found out the band drive didn't work well. Okay, so they threw away the molds and did a whole new mold. Can't just modify the mold to make it taller and wider. Who knows, maybe you have the prototype! > > Ok, > I have added 5 more pics of the two engines, chassis and motors to compare... > Sean > > oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > Thanks, > > Sean > > > > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney 6V > Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power truck > manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The wheels > were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I suspect > that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The Penn- > Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, powered > by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of the > original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member. > > I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as > was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by Athearn > would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this > helps....Ken > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2448	From: oahurailway	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Ken, > Your instructions left on Monday, you should be getting them soon. > > I will post pictures as soon as I get home from work, of thie underside of this engine, as well as the motor..although I hatte to tear it apart again. I had such trouble originally figuring out that it was shorting out and where it was shorting out. This is not a Varney drive... It looks more like the Penn Line, but it is made of brass. Ultimately, it could be a home made engine, but my gut (and my hope) is that it is not and that it is an earlier Whitcomb (By the way, thanks, I could not remember that). The drivers are the same size on the two I have... It has only one pulley on each shaft as well. I tried the rubber band and it just slipped off and would not stay in the pulley. > Sean > > Thanks for the "heads up" on the instructions! I really appreciate it! Tom already sent out the envelope, & it's in really great shape! I don't have a clue on that Whitcomb. Your pix are great, but the drive looks too well fabricated to be "scratched". You're right on the fact that it's not a Varney drive. Maybe of oriental manufacture? Thanks again! Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2449	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini

Sean, I have one old and two newer ones.  I have just looked at the photos 19 to 23.  Nice detailed photos.  I do not think your green one is Penn Line, unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype.  There are just too many differences, to the point that the similarities are there because it is a model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb.  I do like your headlight, nice touch.  Just my two cents. Take care.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.   Hey Joe, First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not apear to be interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into place bu a square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and the electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add gears, but I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no tabs to slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the same worm gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis openings (on the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The other diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud and the tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is also mounted to the chassis on this one.  If you take the shells (bare with no chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded opening edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect that snce the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.   The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because it came baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight. My headlight works, by the way.   I would sure like to solve this mystery. Thanks, Sean oljoeoh <oljoe@landolls. com> wrote: Hi; I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the large drivers and 3 with the small drivers. My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to well to running around the layout in the same direction for years. The driver axles eventually wore into the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a permanent wish to go only in the same direction it had been running in. The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring" drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you hold onto the original running gear. Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a single one that wasn't gear driven. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey Guys! > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this engine I > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, if > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i will > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first time I > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the Penn Line > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly smaller.. > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my core > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe when > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those old > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who makes > them. > Thanks, Sean > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ > > wrote: > > > > Hey Guys... > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I > just > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure > out > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > > Nice little engine though... > > Sean > > >     It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2450	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

On the contrary, the internal shape of the hood is basicly the same... look again Start from the tanks and work in... same shape to the tanks... (same size even), then look at the area just behind the tanks... both go from a short flat spot just behind the front steps (or lack ther of in the one in question) then move to a concave curveas you travel along the underside toward the rear. As you reach the middle area of the side tanks the shell flattens out again... It is odd that they both have that same exact feature... Then look at the couplet cut-out region... The confirmed Penn Line is the same width and are only different in the depth as seen from the underside. When you look from straight on from the front, the coupler box hole is the same measurement, if measured from the deck to the top of the hole. The confirmed penn line is only cut the whole way through the front end.   Now, Look just behind the coupler cut-out, in the inner hood region. The inside of the radiator area has this shape on both castings " \_________/ "  This shape, combined with the same tanks and concave feature behind the tanks are the clinchers with me. What do you guys see? Am I crazy, or do these features match?   As for the windows missing the supports.. I see no evidence of filing anywhere inside the frames, only outside the cab, front end and deck areas. The venting on the hood sides looks to be hand carved and does not have clean lines like the confirmed model.  Thanks again for looking... I find the engine fascinating... Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Looked at your picture. Narrower, shorter in height, no rivets, coupler boxes different, internal shape totally different. Okay, let's brainstorm this. They made an early one, found out the band drive didn't work well. Okay, so they threw away the molds and did a whole new mold. Can't just modify the mold to make it taller and wider. Who knows, maybe you have the prototype! > > Ok, > I have added 5 more pics of the two engines, chassis and motors to compare... > Sean > > oahurailway <two.peaks@. ..> wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > Thanks, > > Sean > > > > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney 6V > Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power truck > manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The wheels > were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I suspect > that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The Penn- > Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, powered > by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of the > original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member. > > I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as > was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by Athearn > would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this > helps....Ken > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. > The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2451	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Look at the overall height. Look at the overall width. Look at the lack of pilot side steps. Look at your side tanks in your own photos! The green ones are close to the edge of the running board! And, it looks like they are overhanging! There is no recess for the original lower plate at the front, the rear mount area is rounded over, not square, the green one has casting marks front and rear, the non-green one has two side by side in the cab roof area, the big chunks inside the cab windows is no there on the PennLine, there is a hole under the sand dome in Greenie, overall at least 1/8" shorter. Your photos of the undersides with the drives in place show the back edge of the running borads a WHOLE lot close together, plus the straps on the air tanks aren't the same spacing! Cast-in either coupler lift bar supports or end rail support on Greenie, not on PennLines, headlight in the top of the front of the radiator, front cab windows, the entire shape of the top of the hood is different, not sure what those holes are for in the top of the cab on all 4 corners, zero rivet detail, radiator grile not even close.... So, totally different shell, totally different drive, different wheels, my guess, as I said earlier, it a prototype (hope) or some knock-off. But, that's just a guess.But, the more I look at it (and the one in my hand as I type) the more I think Japanese knock-off. > > On the contrary, the internal shape of the hood is basicly the same... look again Start from the tanks and work in... same shape to the tanks... (same size even), then look at the area just behind the tanks... both go from a short flat spot just behind the front steps (or lack ther of in the one in question) then move to a concave curveas you travel along the underside toward the rear. As you reach the middle area of the side tanks the shell flattens out again... It is odd that they both have that same exact feature... Then look at the couplet cut-out region... The confirmed Penn Line is the same width and are only different in the depth as seen from the underside. When you look from straight on from the front, the coupler box hole is the same measurement, if measured from the deck to the top of the hole. The confirmed penn line is only cut the whole way through the front end. > > Now, Look just behind the coupler cut-out, in the inner hood region. The inside of the radiator area has this shape on both castings " \_________/ " This shape, combined with the same tanks and concave feature behind the tanks are the clinchers with me. > What do you guys see? Am I crazy, or do these features match? > > As for the windows missing the supports.. I see no evidence of filing anywhere inside the frames, only outside the cab, front end and deck areas. The venting on the hood sides looks to be hand carved and does not have clean lines like the confirmed model. > Thanks again for looking... I find the engine fascinating... > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Looked at your picture. > Narrower, shorter in height, no rivets, coupler boxes different, > internal shape totally different. > > Okay, let's brainstorm this. > They made an early one, found out the band drive didn't work well. > Okay, so they threw away the molds and did a whole new mold. > Can't just modify the mold to make it taller and wider. > > Who knows, maybe you have the prototype! > > > > > Ok, > > I have added 5 more pics of the two engines, chassis and motors > to compare... > > Sean > > > > oahurailway <two.peaks@> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor > <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > > Thanks, > > > Sean > > > > > > > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney > 6V > > Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power > truck > > manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The > wheels > > were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I > suspect > > that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The > Penn- > > Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, > powered > > by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of > the > > original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member. > > > > I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as > > was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by > Athearn > > would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this > > helps....Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast > > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > The fish are biting. > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2452	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies

Hello Chuck, By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful thinking on my part. Thanks, sean --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Sean, > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the photos 19 to > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn Line, > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just too many > differences, to the point that the similarities are there because it is a > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your headlight, > nice touch. Just my two cents. > > Take care. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of sean naylor > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini > Diesel. > > > > Hey Joe, > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not apear to be > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into place bu a > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and the > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add gears, but > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no tabs to > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the same worm > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis openings (on > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The other > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud and the > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is also > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare with no > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded opening > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect that snce > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower. > > > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because it came > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight. My > headlight works, by the way. > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > Thanks, > > Sean > > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: > > Hi; > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers. > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to > well to running around the layout in the same direction > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it > had been running in. > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring" > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you > hold onto the original running gear. > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a > single one that wasn't gear driven. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@> > wrote: > > > > Hey Guys! > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this engine I > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, if > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i will > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first time I > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the Penn Line > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly smaller.. > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my core > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe when > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. > > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those old > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who makes > > them. > > Thanks, Sean > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Guys... > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I > > just > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure > > out > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > > > Nice little engine though... > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > It's here! Your new message! > Get new > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http:/tools.search.yahoo.com/toolba r/feat > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2453	From: sean naylor	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini

Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements.. I have to ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of knowing if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my engines.   1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO scale feet exactly. 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the inside edge to the inside edge of each engine)  (light = just to the left edge of the ruler mark  & Heavy = just to the right of the mark) 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on each, exactly. 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different. 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the inside edge of the tank on the other side.     6' - 6" heavy on the green engine     6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line... Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner...   oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked... Sean             a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hello Chuck, By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful thinking on my part. Thanks, sean --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@. ..> wrote: > > Sean, > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the photos 19 to > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn Line, > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just too many > differences, to the point that the similarities are there because it is a > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your headlight, > nice touch. Just my two cents. > > Take care. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf > Of sean naylor > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini > Diesel. > > > > Hey Joe, > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not apear to be > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into place bu a > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and the > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add gears, but > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no tabs to > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the same worm > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis openings (on > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The other > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud and the > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is also > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare with no > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded opening > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect that snce > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower. > > > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because it came > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight. My > headlight works, by the way. > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > Thanks, > > Sean > > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: > > Hi; > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers. > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to > well to running around the layout in the same direction > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it > had been running in. > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring" > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you > hold onto the original running gear. > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a > single one that wasn't gear driven. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com, > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ > > wrote: > > > > Hey Guys! > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this engine I > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, if > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i will > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first time I > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the Penn Line > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly smaller.. > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my core > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe when > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. > > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those old > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who makes > > them. > > Thanks, Sean > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com, > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Guys... > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I > > just > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure > > out > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > > > Nice little engine though... > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > It's here! Your new message! > Get new > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49938/ *http:/tools. search.yahoo. com/toolba r/feat > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2454	From: curmudgeon	Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies

Then something is wrong with your photos, because the tanks are at the edge if not over the edge of the running board and the overall length isndie the pilot steps looks to be 1/8" shorter. Don't give H0 readings off a scale rule. Get a set of dial calipers and read it like that. Inside of the tanks is not the measurement, the outside is. What is the width (in inchs) of the runing boards, side-to-side? The width of the tanks, outside to outside> The inside measurement of the pilot steps, from edge to edge? > > Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements.. I have to ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of knowing if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my engines. > > 1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO scale feet exactly. > 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the inside edge to the inside edge of each engine) (light = just to the left edge of the ruler mark & Heavy = just to the right of the mark) > 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on each, exactly. > 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different. > 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the inside edge of the tank on the other side. > 6' - 6" heavy on the green engine > 6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line... > Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner... > > oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked... > Sean > > > > > > > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > Hello Chuck, > By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful thinking > on my part. Thanks, sean > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@> > wrote: > > > > Sean, > > > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the > photos 19 to > > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn > Line, > > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just > too many > > differences, to the point that the similarities are there because > it is a > > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your > headlight, > > nice touch. Just my two cents. > > > > Take care. > > > > > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf > > Of sean naylor > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line > Mini > > Diesel. > > > > > > > > Hey Joe, > > > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the > > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not > apear to be > > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into > place bu a > > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and > the > > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the > > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add > gears, but > > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no > tabs to > > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the > same worm > > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis > openings (on > > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The > other > > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud > and the > > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is > also > > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare > with no > > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded > opening > > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect > that snce > > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower. > > > > > > > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because > it came > > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight. > My > > headlight works, by the way. > > > > > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sean > > > > oljoeoh <oljoe@> wrote: > > > > Hi; > > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO > > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland > > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one > > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks > > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels > > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the > > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers. > > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to > > well to running around the layout in the same direction > > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into > > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a > > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it > > had been running in. > > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might > > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring" > > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor > > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at > > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you > > hold onto the original running gear. > > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a > > single one that wasn't gear driven. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > ps.com, > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Guys! > > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this > engine I > > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, > if > > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i > will > > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first > time I > > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the > Penn Line > > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly > smaller.. > > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my > core > > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe > when > > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire > > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. > > > > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those > old > > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who > makes > > > them. > > > Thanks, Sean > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > ps.com, > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Guys... > > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini > Diesel. I > > > just > > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am > right > > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven > like > > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I > just > > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in > pieces and > > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to > figure > > > out > > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a > strip > > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it > spinning in > > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight > enough > > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > > > > Nice little engine though... > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > It's here! Your new message! > > Get new > > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http:/tools.search.yahoo.com/toolb a > r/feat > > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2455	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Another "rescue"

Attachments : The latest piece from that box of "stuff" I got a couple weeks ago that had the Dockside & the Booster in it. This one an Ulrich (probably the nicest piece in the box), needed a complete reassembly and new paint and decals, so it's now part of the "Milwaukee Northern" roster. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2456	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: New poll for vintageHO

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the vintageHO group: Help choose the cover photo for the next few months. Look at the photo album "a contest" then enter your vote for the picture you want to see on our home page. Voting will be open through February 28, 2007 o Li'l Joe o Vintage Switching o Walthers Baltic o Engine House Scene To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/surveys?id=2140175 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2457	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Another "rescue"

Hey Don, Hey! I have a couple of those! They do not look nearly that good! When you are done with your stuff, I am going to need you to come over to my junkyard and work on some of my stuff... Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: The latest piece from that box of "stuff" I got a couple weeks ago that had the Dockside & the Booster in it. This one an Ulrich (probably the nicest piece in the box), needed a complete reassembly and new paint and decals, so it's now part of the "Milwaukee Northern" roster. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2458	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: new poll for VintageHO

Oh crap, couldn’t you make it a bit easier? They are all great shots. Lets see now, how does that go; eenie, weenee, min….

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2459	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hey Joe, I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor - pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder.   I have a cheap caliper I will use to take some measurements later tonight. Some of the measurements asked of me to take, I already know are different.  The thing I have noticed is that the Green weenie seems to be a carve engine, maybe from one block, where as rhe Whitcomb seems to be an assembled engine that was then cast. Features of the engines strengthen this theory of mine... The coupler boxes, the hood side doors, the sand dome, the radiator grill. All these features seem to be carved or pressed into (grill) the greenie, where as the Whitcomb seems to have had them machined and then added prior to casting. Later! Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Then something is wrong with your photos, because the tanks are at the edge if not over the edge of the running board and the overall length isndie the pilot steps looks to be 1/8" shorter. Don't give H0 readings off a scale rule. Get a set of dial calipers and read it like that. Inside of the tanks is not the measurement, the outside is. What is the width (in inchs) of the runing boards, side-to-side? The width of the tanks, outside to outside> The inside measurement of the pilot steps, from edge to edge? > > Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements. . I have to ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of knowing if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my engines. > > 1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO scale feet exactly. > 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the inside edge to the inside edge of each engine) (light = just to the left edge of the ruler mark & Heavy = just to the right of the mark) > 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on each, exactly. > 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different. > 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the inside edge of the tank on the other side. > 6' - 6" heavy on the green engine > 6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line... > Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner... > > oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked... > Sean > > > > > > > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > Hello Chuck, > By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful thinking > on my part. Thanks, sean > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@> > wrote: > > > > Sean, > > > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the > photos 19 to > > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn > Line, > > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just > too many > > differences, to the point that the similarities are there because > it is a > > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your > headlight, > > nice touch. Just my two cents. > > > > Take care. > > > > > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] > On Behalf > > Of sean naylor > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line > Mini > > Diesel. > > > > > > > > Hey Joe, > > > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the > > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not > apear to be > > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into > place bu a > > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and > the > > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the > > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add > gears, but > > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no > tabs to > > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the > same worm > > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis > openings (on > > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The > other > > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud > and the > > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is > also > > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare > with no > > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded > opening > > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect > that snce > > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower. > > > > > > > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because > it came > > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight. > My > > headlight works, by the way. > > > > > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sean > > > > oljoeoh <oljoe@> wrote: > > > > Hi; > > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO > > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland > > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one > > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks > > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels > > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the > > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers. > > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to > > well to running around the layout in the same direction > > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into > > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a > > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it > > had been running in. > > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might > > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring" > > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor > > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at > > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you > > hold onto the original running gear. > > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a > > single one that wasn't gear driven. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > ps.com, > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Guys! > > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this > engine I > > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, > if > > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i > will > > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first > time I > > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the > Penn Line > > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly > smaller.. > > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my > core > > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe > when > > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire > > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. > > > > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those > old > > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who > makes > > > them. > > > Thanks, Sean > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > ps.com, > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Guys... > > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini > Diesel. I > > > just > > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am > right > > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven > like > > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I > just > > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in > pieces and > > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to > figure > > > out > > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a > strip > > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it > spinning in > > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight > enough > > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > > > > Nice little engine though... > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > It's here! Your new message! > > Get new > > > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49938/ *http:/tools. search.yahoo. com/toolb a > r/feat > > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2460	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

Hi to all in this group. I would like to thank each of you that shared your gluing INFO with me as well as the rest of the group. I now have my supply of glues in stock. Have my new airbruse & air pump/tank.  As to one of the questions as to painting the wood railcars I was told to uusing what is known as dry brushing a model.   What other paint INFO does any of this group have to offer/share as to a wooden or wooden/castmetal kit? I have a boxcar that is made out of brass, that I will need to paint and put some details on once it is done, for I have several wooden kits that have metal tops and/or sides/end panels.  If anyone in this group has tips, hints or any ideas as to How to... Share your INFO with the rest of us!!!     Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2461	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Several questions

I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case. First, Athearn F-7's. On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part in the coupler opening just below the buffer. The closes up the vertical gap. It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not. Right track? Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's left. I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything. Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame, Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft. I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay). This is like nothing in the drawings I can find. There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides. I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is: About 2" long overall. Ball on each end about .210 diameter. Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with a diameter of the pins about .085". Anybody got one of these? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2462	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Joe, > I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor - pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder. Sean, your album pic #22 shows a Pittman DC-60, & pic #21 a Pittman DC-62A. The DC-62As motor magnet angles toward the center line whereas the DC-60 had a squared motor magnet. BTW, I'm sure you're already aware, but don't remove the magnet or the motor will lose its power! One of the Vintage HO Group's members "redehaas" has a really cool website at; http://www.redehaas.dds.nl where he lists most of the old Pittmans, & it's very useful in IDing the motors! Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2463	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case. > > First, Athearn F-7's. > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part > in the coupler opening just below the buffer. > The closes up the vertical gap. > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not. > Right track? > > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's > left. > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything. > > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame, > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft. > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay). > > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find. > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides. > > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is: > > About 2" long overall. > Ball on each end about .210 diameter. > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with > a diameter of the pins about .085". > > Anybody got one of these? > > Thanks. > Dave Hi Dave, try e-mailing "Yardbird Trains" or "Bowser". They both have alot of vintage parts. Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2464	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

Dan doesn't have anything for this Varney. I called Bowser, need to call back tomorrow and talk to Lou English, they said. They have stacks of "old stuff", and he knows what's there. Dave > > > > Hi Dave, try e-mailing "Yardbird Trains" or "Bowser". They both > have alot of vintage parts. Ken > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2465	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > > Dan doesn't have anything for this Varney. > I called Bowser, need to call back tomorrow and talk to Lou English, > they said. > They have stacks of "old stuff", and he knows what's there. > Dave > > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, try e-mailing "Yardbird Trains" or "Bowser". They both > > have alot of vintage parts. Ken This might be a real reach, and you probably already know this, but in 1963 Sol Kramer(who bought Varney in 1957) also acuired the Penn- Line roster of HO trains in 1963 which were sold under the Life-Like brand till the 1970s. Some of the parts got "married" together. Now, as of July of 2005, Walthers has bought the Life-Like line, and perhaps they might have what you're looking for? Ken > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2466	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hey Ken,   The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # " 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition, in the search to find the short, originally. Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at least the motor be a Penn Line?   When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who onveyed the information he added to his listing.   I haven't given up hope yet... Thanks, Sean oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey Joe, > I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor - pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder. Sean, your album pic #22 shows a Pittman DC-60, & pic #21 a Pittman DC-62A. The DC-62As motor magnet angles toward the center line whereas the DC-60 had a squared motor magnet. BTW, I'm sure you're already aware, but don't remove the magnet or the motor will lose its power! One of the Vintage HO Group's members "redehaas" has a really cool website at; http://www.redehaas .dds.nl where he lists most of the old Pittmans, & it's very useful in IDing the motors! Ken > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2467	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

Yeah, I'm still looking. I just now finished a brass driveshaft, pins and all. My real issue with it is wear. I would have thought the originals were Delrin or some such, like the sockets are. I'm at least going to try it and see. Dave > This might be a real reach, and you probably already know this, > but in 1963 Sol Kramer(who bought Varney in 1957) also acuired the Penn- > Line roster of HO trains in 1963 which were sold under the Life-Like > brand till the 1970s. Some of the parts got "married" together. > > Now, as of July of 2005, Walthers has bought the Life-Like line, > and perhaps they might have what you're looking for? Ken > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2468	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Ken, > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # " 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition, in the search to find the short, originally. > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at least the motor be a Penn Line? > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who onveyed the information he added to his listing. > > I haven't given up hope yet... > Thanks > To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman DC- 62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! Do a Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's some info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able to e- mail the guy. Check it out! Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2469	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions >I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case. > > First, Athearn F-7's. > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part > in the coupler opening just below the buffer. > The closes up the vertical gap. > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not. > Right track? > > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's > left. > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything. > > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame, > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft. > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay). > > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find. > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides. > > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is: > > About 2" long overall. > Ball on each end about .210 diameter. > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with > a diameter of the pins about .085". > > Anybody got one of these? > > Thanks.don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > Dave I MIGHT. I've got to run now to a neighborhood watch meeting, but I'll try and check tonight. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2470	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Sean- One more question. Is that plastic plate that holds the motor up into the body (strange they'd use plastic) really have a pivot mount on the middle? Looks like a place for a pivot, like a drive mount off something else? Dave > > > > Hey Ken, > > > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from > the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact > strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic > base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing > originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the > electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the > picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only > marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # " > 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition, > in the search to find the short, originally. > > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at > least the motor be a Penn Line? > > > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had > added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this > is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later > stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not > sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added > close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was > in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with > the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who > onveyed the information he added to his listing. > > > > I haven't given up hope yet... > > Thanks > > > > > To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman DC- > 62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! Do a > Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's some > info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able to e- > mail the guy. Check it out! Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2471	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Dave, I agree it seems odd, but it seems to fit well an I did not notice any cut of file marks. The edges are smooth and shiny like the rest of it. It looks like it is a molded piece, if you understand what I mean. I really have no idea what the center hole is for, but it appears to have no wear and have never been used as a pivot for anything. Thanks Dave.. I had thought the same thing. The plastic part is what bugs me too... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Sean- > One more question. > Is that plastic plate that holds the motor up into the body (strange > they'd use plastic) really have a pivot mount on the middle? > Looks like a place for a pivot, like a drive mount off something > else? > Dave > > > > > > > Hey Ken, > > > > > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from > > the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact > > strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the > plastic > > base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing > > originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the > > electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the > > picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only > > marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single > # " > > 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my > addition, > > in the search to find the short, originally. > > > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make > at > > least the motor be a Penn Line? > > > > > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had > > added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that > this > > is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later > > stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, > not > > sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added > > close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it > was > > in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in > with > > the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who > > onveyed the information he added to his listing. > > > > > > I haven't given up hope yet... > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman > DC- > > 62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! > Do a > > Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's > some > > info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able > to e- > > mail the guy. Check it out! Ken > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2472	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hello Ken, I just sent the guy and email... Hopfully he will reply. Did you notice the one that ran on the silver Dollar? I think it is even smaller yet... Sean oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey Ken, > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # " 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition, in the search to find the short, originally. > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at least the motor be a Penn Line? > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who onveyed the information he added to his listing. > > I haven't given up hope yet... > Thanks > To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman DC- 62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! Do a Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's some info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able to e- mail the guy. Check it out! Ken Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2473	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

I HAVE IT!!!!!!   It was not on the guy's website, but it was in his index file... I went to the page you said and deleted the text in my address bar up to the first slash mark then hit enter...   found this file... silverdol.jpg   It is the Penn Line Silver Dollar!   Zoom in on the picture on this page... Ther are no steps... It has a flat brass? chassis. It does have a post in the window, but the cab sides look smooth... with no rivets... Take a look and tell me what you think. The tank straps appear to be straight up!   http://members.aol.com/fydill/articles/silverdol.jpg   Sean       curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Sean- One more question. Is that plastic plate that holds the motor up into the body (strange they'd use plastic) really have a pivot mount on the middle? Looks like a place for a pivot, like a drive mount off something else? Dave > > > > Hey Ken, > > > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from > the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact > strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic > base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing > originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the > electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the > picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only > marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # " > 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition, > in the search to find the short, originally. > > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at > least the motor be a Penn Line? > > > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had > added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this > is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later > stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not > sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added > close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was > in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with > the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who > onveyed the information he added to his listing. > > > > I haven't given up hope yet... > > Thanks > > > > > To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman DC- > 62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! Do a > Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's some > info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able to e- > mail the guy. Check it out! Ken > Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2474	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Attachments : sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hello Ken, I just sent the guy and email... Hopfully he will reply. Did you notice the one that ran on the silver Dollar? I think it is even smaller yet... Sean oahurailway <two.peaks@verizon. net> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey Ken, > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # " 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition, in the search to find the short, originally. > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at least the motor be a Penn Line? > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who onveyed the information he added to his listing. > > I haven't given up hope yet... > Thanks > To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman DC- 62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! Do a Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's some info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able to e- mail the guy. Check it out! Ken Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2475	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Thanks Ken, for showing me that site.. I am convinced it is it..   The more I look at mine, the more I think the rivets were removed from the cab and the stack was shortened... The window rail, I see no evidence of removal... but I could be missing it...   Ther are two pictures of the silver dollar engine on that site, yet they appear to be different. The one I have included previously has no protruding headlight, has longer grab irons on top of the hood. No steps, and smooth sides and cab roof, but that is harder to tell from the old pic.... Sean   sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hello Ken, I just sent the guy and email... Hopfully he will reply. Did you notice the one that ran on the silver Dollar? I think it is even smaller yet... Sean oahurailway <two.peaks@verizon. net> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey Ken, > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # " 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition, in the search to find the short, originally. > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at least the motor be a Penn Line? > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who onveyed the information he added to his listing. > > I haven't given up hope yet... > Thanks > To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman DC- 62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! Do a Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's some info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able to e- mail the guy. Check it out! Ken Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A. Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2476	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the best around for most applications. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case. First, Athearn F-7's. On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part in the coupler opening just below the buffer. The closes up the vertical gap. It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not. Right track? Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's left. I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything. Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame, Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft. I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay). This is like nothing in the drawings I can find. There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides. I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is: About 2" long overall. Ball on each end about .210 diameter. Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with a diameter of the pins about .085". Anybody got one of these? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2477	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Thanks Ken, for showing me that site.. I am convinced it is it.. > > The more I look at mine, the more I think the rivets were removed from the cab and the stack was shortened... The window rail, I see no evidence of removal... but I could be missing it... > > Ther are two pictures of the silver dollar engine on that site, yet they appear to be different. > The one I have included previously has no protruding headlight, has longer grab irons on top of the hood. No steps, and smooth sides and cab roof, but that is harder to tell from the old pic.... > > Sean > > Great Sean! I didn't see that pic you found on that website. You could very well be on to something. Let us know what you hear back from your e-mail to that guy! Now back to my Manhattan! Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2478	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

Except: The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one piece. The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks. The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear issues with brass in Delrin. Let me describe what the finished product looks like: A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on the end with a bench grinder. About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off. The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck. The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the driveshaft falling out. Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for. A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected. Dave > > Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the best around for most applications. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions > > > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case. > > First, Athearn F-7's. > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part > in the coupler opening just below the buffer. > The closes up the vertical gap. > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not. > Right track? > > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's > left. > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything. > > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame, > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft. > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay). > > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find. > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides. > > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is: > > About 2" long overall. > Ball on each end about .210 diameter. > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with > a diameter of the pins about .085". > > Anybody got one of these? > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2479	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Except: > > The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one > piece. > The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks. > The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear > issues with brass in Delrin. > > Let me describe what the finished product looks like: > > A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on > the end with a bench grinder. > > About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take > an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each > other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off. > > The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket > that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck. > The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the > driveshaft falling out. > > Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that > will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for. > A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected. Dave, have you checked out Northwest Shortline's "U" joints? They have a website. Ken > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2480	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

early on..... > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > Except: > > > > The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all > one > > piece. > > The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks. > > The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear > > issues with brass in Delrin. > > > > Let me describe what the finished product looks like: > > > > A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded > on > > the end with a bench grinder. > > > > About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take > > an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each > > other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off. > > > > The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin > socket > > that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck. > > The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without > the > > driveshaft falling out. > > > > Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that > > will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking > for. > > A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected. > > > Dave, have you checked out Northwest Shortline's "U" joints? > They have a website. Ken > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2481	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

The best I've come up with is a brochure on hoseeker from 1965. On page 1 is the "A" unit....UP, single horn, #1400 on the cab. So, we're close. > > > > > Except: > > > > The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all > one > > piece. > > The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks. > > The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear > > issues with brass in Delrin. > > > > Let me describe what the finished product looks like: > > > > A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded > on > > the end with a bench grinder. > > > > About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take > > an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each > > other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off. > > > > The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin > socket > > that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck. > > The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without > the > > driveshaft falling out. > > > > Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that > > will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking > for. > > A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected. > > > Dave, have you checked out Northwest Shortline's "U" joints? > They have a website. Ken > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2482	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

Dave   Most hobby shops I have been to have a variety of shapes made of plastic. I don't know what diameters may be available in plastic but if there is one that fits your needs you could make a similar shaft out of plastic. That way you might avoid the wear you legitamately are concerned about using brass.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Except: The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one piece. The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks. The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear issues with brass in Delrin. Let me describe what the finished product looks like: A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on the end with a bench grinder. About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off. The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck. The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the driveshaft falling out. Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for. A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected. Dave > > Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the best around for most applications. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions > > > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case. > > First, Athearn F-7's. > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part > in the coupler opening just below the buffer. > The closes up the vertical gap. > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not. > Right track? > > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's > left. > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything. > > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame, > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft. > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay). > > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find. > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides. > > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is: > > About 2" long overall. > Ball on each end about .210 diameter. > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with > a diameter of the pins about .085". > > Anybody got one of these? > > Thanks. > Dave > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2483	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

Dear Dave,   Plastistruct comes to mind as one such variety of plastic shapes supplier at many hobby shops, but watch what adhesive you use when applying it to another plastic. Sometimes, what you usually use won't hold-depending upon what you use normally. Good to check such things out.   John Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: Dave   Most hobby shops I have been to have a variety of shapes made of plastic. I don't know what diameters may be available in plastic but if there is one that fits your needs you could make a similar shaft out of plastic. That way you might avoid the wear you legitamately are concerned about using brass.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Except: The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one piece. The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks. The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear issues with brass in Delrin. Let me describe what the finished product looks like: A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on the end with a bench grinder. About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off. The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck. The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the driveshaft falling out. Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for. A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected. Dave > > Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the best around for most applications. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions > > > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case. > > First, Athearn F-7's. > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part > in the coupler opening just below the buffer. > The closes up the vertical gap. > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not. > Right track? > > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's > left. > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything. > > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame, > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft. > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay). > > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find. > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides. > > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is: > > About 2" long overall. > Ball on each end about .210 diameter. > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with > a diameter of the pins about .085". > > Anybody got one of these? > > Thanks. > Dave > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2484	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

The motor in the Penn Line Whitcomb is a Pittman DC-60. If you have a parts list for the Whitcomb you will note the DC-60 is in that list. Note that the armature shown in the Varney motor has the commutator (where the motor brushes) are actually on opposite ends of the armatures. I can't verity that the Varney motor is or is not a Pittman DC-60 but it sure looks similar but cruder. Many brass imports of that period used Pittman look alike motors but they were notoriously known for how warm they ran and didn't run nearly as well as the equivalant Pittman at low speeds. I had one customer that bought every brass loco that was made and the first thing he did was swap in a new Pittman motor. He could remotor anything he laid his hands on. The Penn Line Whitcomb body was always a one piece casting which contributed to its ease of assembly. As I recall there were only 3 diecast parts (body, gear/wheel casting, and the bottom cover plate for the gear/wheel casting. Greeny is still a mystery. I might also add that I've never seen any Whitcomb gearcase cover that enclosed the axle gears - greeny has the gears covered. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Joe, > I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor - pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder. > > I have a cheap caliper I will use to take some measurements later tonight. Some of the measurements asked of me to take, I already know are different. The thing I have noticed is that the Green weenie seems to be a carve engine, maybe from one block, where as rhe Whitcomb seems to be an assembled engine that was then cast. Features of the engines strengthen this theory of mine... The coupler boxes, the hood side doors, the sand dome, the radiator grill. All these features seem to be carved or pressed into (grill) the greenie, where as the Whitcomb seems to have had them machined and then added prior to casting. > Later! > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Then something is wrong with your photos, because the tanks are at > the edge if not over the edge of the running board and the overall > length isndie the pilot steps looks to be 1/8" shorter. > Don't give H0 readings off a scale rule. > Get a set of dial calipers and read it like that. > Inside of the tanks is not the measurement, the outside is. > What is the width (in inchs) of the runing boards, side-to-side? > The width of the tanks, outside to outside> > The inside measurement of the pilot steps, from edge to edge? > > > > Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements.. I have to > ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of > knowing if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my > engines. > > > > 1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO > scale feet exactly. > > 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the > inside edge to the inside edge of each engine) (light = just to the > left edge of the ruler mark & Heavy = just to the right of the > mark) > > 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on > each, exactly. > > 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different. > > 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside > edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the > inside edge of the tank on the other side. > > 6' - 6" heavy on the green engine > > 6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line... > > Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The > confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner... > > > > oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked... > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > Hello Chuck, > > By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful > thinking > > on my part. Thanks, sean > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the > > photos 19 to > > > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn > > Line, > > > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just > > too many > > > differences, to the point that the similarities are there > because > > it is a > > > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your > > headlight, > > > nice touch. Just my two cents. > > > > > > Take care. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > > > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf > > > Of sean naylor > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn > Line > > Mini > > > Diesel. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Joe, > > > > > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of > the > > > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not > > apear to be > > > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into > > place bu a > > > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis > and > > the > > > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from > the > > > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and > add > > gears, but > > > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no > > tabs to > > > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the > > same worm > > > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis > > openings (on > > > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. > The > > other > > > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud > > and the > > > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor > is > > also > > > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare > > with no > > > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded > > opening > > > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect > > that snce > > > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower. > > > > > > > > > > > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to > because > > it came > > > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed > headlight. > > My > > > headlight works, by the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > oljoeoh <oljoe@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi; > > > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO > > > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland > > > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one > > > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks > > > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels > > > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the > > > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers. > > > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to > > > well to running around the layout in the same direction > > > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into > > > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a > > > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it > > > had been running in. > > > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might > > > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring" > > > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor > > > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at > > > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you > > > hold onto the original running gear. > > > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a > > > single one that wasn't gear driven. > > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > ps.com, > > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Guys! > > > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this > > engine I > > > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. > Or, > > if > > > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i > > will > > > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the > first > > time I > > > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the > > Penn Line > > > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly > > smaller.. > > > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my > > core > > > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill > maybe > > when > > > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my > entire > > > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. > > > > > > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those > > old > > > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or > who > > makes > > > > them. > > > > Thanks, Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > ps.com, > > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey Guys... > > > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini > > Diesel. I > > > > just > > > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I > am > > right > > > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear > driven > > like > > > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. > I > > just > > > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in > > pieces and > > > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to > > figure > > > > out > > > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to > slip a > > strip > > > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it > > spinning in > > > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not > tight > > enough > > > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > > > > > Nice little engine though... > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > It's here! Your new message! > > > Get new > > > > > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http:/tools.search.yahoo.com/toolb > a > > r/feat > > > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2485	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hello Ken, The following is from two emails I received back last night from Frank Dill, the author and owner of the web-site you directed me to... The first email I sent to him went to his son first. I did not know he did not receive the first email and the photos it contained until I received tha email from his son this morning. His son was able to forward the message last night resulting in this first reply email from Frank Dill, but he was unable to forward the photos. (Keep in mind, he had no pictures to look at with the first responce.)   email #1:   "The very first Penn Line switchers did have a rubber band like belt drive, and the first castings were rather rough as the three founders did the castings themselves in single rented room over the dairy in Boyertown. I have however never seen one with the plastic base that you describe. As the first switchers were sold as kits only, it is possible that the hobbyist who assembled the kit is responsible for the substitution, but I have no way of being certain that this base was not produced by Penn Line.  Frank Dill" In the second email I sent I had included the picture of only the motor and picture #20 of the underside of the enine depicting the chassis located above the shell. I did not realize he had not yet seen the other 5-6 pictures I had sent.   email #2:   "Thanks for the photos. They just do not look quite like anything that Penn Line sold commercially. In the fall of 1963 Penn Line declared bankruptcy and ceased production very quickly. An auction was held and the rights to produce some of the locomotives were sold to Bowser. However Abe Mercer, who was the main designer of the switcher, retained the rights to the switcher. I think that he always hoped to revive Penn Line in some form. But never did. It is certainly possible that you have some kind of prototype, but I have no way of knowing because all these were the property of Penn Line Mfg. and were sold at the auction."   I just resent the original photos showing the side views of both engines. I have not yet heard back from him.   Thanks for the initial direction Ken. Sean Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2486	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

WELL! I think I have part of the greenie mystery is solved. The power for greenie was made my VARNEY. It has a DC60 motor and it has the pullies and spring drive. If you look at www.redehaas.dds.nl/belt-brute.htm you will see it in all(???) it's Varney glory. The link I'm showing was in a previous post on this thread by another responder. There is also a complete description of how the runnning gear was supposed to function. In addition to that they show several other Varney gear drives that are certainly different in concept. This info certainly doesn't explain the origins of the cab at all. I somehow can't make any peace at all with the idea that greenie was ever a Penn Line item - given the Varney running gear. The running gear may have been the inspiration for the Whitcomb but I just can't see Penn Line ever producing anything with Varney running gear. I also recall that the boiler casting metal used by Penn Line were of better quality than most of their competitors. Seems one or more of the owners at one time worked in the printing business and used to claim any of the scrap metal left over for use in Penn Line products. This nugget of info comes from a CD history of Penn Line that I got several years ago. It wasn't typical Zamac because of the origins of the metal. Now about that cab....... Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Ken, > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # " 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition, in the search to find the short, originally. > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at least the motor be a Penn Line? > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who onveyed the information he added to his listing. > > I haven't given up hope yet... > Thanks, Sean > > oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hey Joe, > > I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not > know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I > posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual > Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being > painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor - > pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder. > > Sean, your album pic #22 shows a Pittman DC-60, & pic #21 a Pittman > DC-62A. The DC-62As motor magnet angles toward the center line whereas > the DC-60 had a squared motor magnet. BTW, I'm sure you're already > aware, but don't remove the magnet or the motor will lose its power! > > One of the Vintage HO Group's members "redehaas" has a really cool > website at; http://www.redehaas.dds.nl where he lists most of the old > Pittmans, & it's very useful in IDing the motors! Ken > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2487	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies

Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb.... Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb on that. From what I understand that dome with the Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for years and it was run for viewers anytime a question was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were fun little switchers. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements.. I have to ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of knowing if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my engines. > > 1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO scale feet exactly. > 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the inside edge to the inside edge of each engine) (light = just to the left edge of the ruler mark & Heavy = just to the right of the mark) > 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on each, exactly. > 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different. > 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the inside edge of the tank on the other side. > 6' - 6" heavy on the green engine > 6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line... > Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner... > > oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked... > Sean > > > > > > > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > Hello Chuck, > By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful thinking > on my part. Thanks, sean > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@> > wrote: > > > > Sean, > > > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the > photos 19 to > > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn > Line, > > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just > too many > > differences, to the point that the similarities are there because > it is a > > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your > headlight, > > nice touch. Just my two cents. > > > > Take care. > > > > > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf > > Of sean naylor > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line > Mini > > Diesel. > > > > > > > > Hey Joe, > > > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the > > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not > apear to be > > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into > place bu a > > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and > the > > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the > > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add > gears, but > > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no > tabs to > > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the > same worm > > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis > openings (on > > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The > other > > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud > and the > > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is > also > > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare > with no > > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded > opening > > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect > that snce > > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower. > > > > > > > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because > it came > > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight. > My > > headlight works, by the way. > > > > > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sean > > > > oljoeoh <oljoe@> wrote: > > > > Hi; > > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO > > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland > > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one > > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks > > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels > > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the > > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers. > > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to > > well to running around the layout in the same direction > > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into > > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a > > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it > > had been running in. > > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might > > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring" > > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor > > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at > > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you > > hold onto the original running gear. > > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a > > single one that wasn't gear driven. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > ps.com, > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Guys! > > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this > engine I > > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, > if > > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i > will > > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first > time I > > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the > Penn Line > > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly > smaller.. > > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my > core > > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe > when > > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire > > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. > > > > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those > old > > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who > makes > > > them. > > > Thanks, Sean > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > ps.com, > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Guys... > > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini > Diesel. I > > > just > > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am > right > > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven > like > > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I > just > > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in > pieces and > > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to > figure > > > out > > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a > strip > > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it > spinning in > > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight > enough > > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > > > > Nice little engine though... > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > It's here! Your new message! > > Get new > > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http:/tools.search.yahoo.com/toolba > r/feat > > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2488	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hello Joe, Thanks so much for the input! Is this not a fascinating quest?   I took a look at the site and the only thin I dis agree with is the belt pulleys and the rest of the drive mechanism. The only thing in common I see is the motor. If I understand Ken's previous message correctly, The DC-60 motor was produced by Pittman and was used by Varney. As well, if I were developing an engine from scratch, and I were of simple means, I would not re-invent the wheel by creating an entirely new engine. I would use a good dependable one which is mass produced and already available with a simple drive mechanism like the band provides. If you have a chance, read the email reply I just sent. It was from Jack Dill who seems to be some sort of un-official? historian on the Penn Line story. The company originated from his home town here in Pennsylvania. . His reply to my inquiry on this engine stated the first models were belt driven and the castings were somewhat crude. I tell you what though... This entire quest has been quite fun and educational and I am surprised at the results thus far. Thanks man! Sean oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: WELL! I think I have part of the greenie mystery is solved. The power for greenie was made my VARNEY. It has a DC60 motor and it has the pullies and spring drive. If you look at www.redehaas. dds.nl/belt- brute.htm you will see it in all(???) it's Varney glory. The link I'm showing was in a previous post on this thread by another responder. There is also a complete description of how the runnning gear was supposed to function. In addition to that they show several other Varney gear drives that are certainly different in concept. This info certainly doesn't explain the origins of the cab at all. I somehow can't make any peace at all with the idea that greenie was ever a Penn Line item - given the Varney running gear. The running gear may have been the inspiration for the Whitcomb but I just can't see Penn Line ever producing anything with Varney running gear. I also recall that the boiler casting metal used by Penn Line were of better quality than most of their competitors. Seems one or more of the owners at one time worked in the printing business and used to claim any of the scrap metal left over for use in Penn Line products. This nugget of info comes from a CD history of Penn Line that I got several years ago. It wasn't typical Zamac because of the origins of the metal. Now about that cab....... Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey Ken, > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # " 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition, in the search to find the short, originally. > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at least the motor be a Penn Line? > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who onveyed the information he added to his listing. > > I haven't given up hope yet... > Thanks, Sean > > oahurailway <two.peaks@. ..> wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ > wrote: > > > > Hey Joe, > > I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not > know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I > posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual > Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being > painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor - > pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder. > > Sean, your album pic #22 shows a Pittman DC-60, & pic #21 a Pittman > DC-62A. The DC-62As motor magnet angles toward the center line whereas > the DC-60 had a squared motor magnet. BTW, I'm sure you're already > aware, but don't remove the magnet or the motor will lose its power! > > One of the Vintage HO Group's members "redehaas" has a really cool > website at; http://www.redehaas .dds.nl where he lists most of the old > Pittmans, & it's very useful in IDing the motors! Ken > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. > Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2489	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini

Attachments : Hey Joe... Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend!   I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck - no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin striping. Sean Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2490	From: jim gerstley	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: dry brush vs spray paint wood model passenger cars-La Belle

What is the advantage of drybrushing a wood model vs spray painting with Floquil, P-B-L or similar products? Would think drybrushing would give a lot of paint texture? And 1:1 wood passenger cars always had a smooth semi-gloss finish as I recall. Jim --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Dear Maryann, > > You do not use sanding sealer on a wooden kit that is supposed to represent a wooden car. That would hide the wood grain ( and Don said that already.) The old wooden cars were not airbrushed or spray painted (talking of the prototype cars.) You may want to dry brush ( a low amount of paint on a paint brush) the car side with the desired color you don't have an excessive amount of paint on the wood. Paint with the grain of the wood. A thin spray of a clear coat is used to cover the dried color to provide a thin smooth surface for applying decals or dry transfers. -------. On the clear coat thing, you can add more after the decal dries in place if you want a varnished look. ------- > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) > > > > > > > > maobuch@... wrote: > Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood > Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating? For its been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of the 24 kits done... > > > Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch > http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html > PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can > See what you are saying to me !!! > > > > > > --------------------------------- > TV dinner still cooling? > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2491	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies

That looks like the idea. Somewhere I have a pic of the one I'm talking about sans the little town scene in your pic. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Joe... > Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend! > > I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck - no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin striping. > Sean > > > > --------------------------------- > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2492	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies

Sean..... I found my pics of the silver dollar Whitcomb. One is exactly like your overhead shot of the item. The rest are all different from your pair. I also have 2 emails that attribute the silver dollar display to Abe at Penn Line. If you would like I can forward all of the items to you at your email address - just say you want them. One of the pics is of a pristine ready to run Whitcomb, probably around 1960. It was an ebay item several years ago as was one of the silver dollar diaplays (got all of my pics from ebay auctions). I bid on both the display and the pristine whitcomb and didn't even come close. Just remmebered that one of the pics is of the assembly instructions for the Whitcomb. Still can't believe how this thread has grown and all the interesting info that is still showing up. A lot of stuff on a very small switcher. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> wrote: > > That looks like the idea. Somewhere I have a pic > of the one I'm talking about sans the little town > scene in your pic. > Joe O'Loughlin > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hey Joe... > > Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend! > > > > I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two > engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is > more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the > one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the > air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck - > no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top > of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you > look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what > appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab > iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly > smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo > appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin > striping. > > Sean > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2493	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hey Joe! Send them right over! I will take what ever you have to offer! Thanks... I was thinking I might try to duplicate the scene pictured in the tiny display using the engine I have. As I already stated, I think the smoke stack was filed down..that would be easy enough to repair with brass tubing of the same diameter... The window rail is a little harder and I really can not make out the paint... I would love to see your picturs... I hae already googled the names of all three owners of Penn Line and they all lead back to that same site and that is it... Other than a road trip, I think info might soon wear thin, but then again, who knows.... Sean oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: Sean..... I found my pics of the silver dollar Whitcomb. One is exactly like your overhead shot of the item. The rest are all different from your pair. I also have 2 emails that attribute the silver dollar display to Abe at Penn Line. If you would like I can forward all of the items to you at your email address - just say you want them. One of the pics is of a pristine ready to run Whitcomb, probably around 1960. It was an ebay item several years ago as was one of the silver dollar diaplays (got all of my pics from ebay auctions). I bid on both the display and the pristine whitcomb and didn't even come close. Just remmebered that one of the pics is of the assembly instructions for the Whitcomb. Still can't believe how this thread has grown and all the interesting info that is still showing up. A lot of stuff on a very small switcher. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> wrote: > > That looks like the idea. Somewhere I have a pic > of the one I'm talking about sans the little town > scene in your pic. > Joe O'Loughlin > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ > wrote: > > > > Hey Joe... > > Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend! > > > > I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two > engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is > more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the > one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the > air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck - > no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top > of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you > look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what > appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab > iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly > smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo > appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin > striping. > > Sean > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2494	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello Ken, > The following is from two emails I received back last night from Frank Dill, the author and owner of the web-site you directed me to... The first email I sent to him went to his son first. I did not know he did not receive the first email and the photos it contained until I received tha email from his son this morning. His son was able to forward the message last night resulting in this first reply email from Frank Dill, but he was unable to forward the photos. (Keep in mind, he had no pictures to look at with the first responce.) > > email #1: > > "The very first Penn Line switchers did have a rubber band like belt drive, and the first castings were rather rough as the three founders did the castings themselves in single rented room over the dairy in Boyertown. I have however never seen one with the plastic base that you describe. As the first switchers were sold as kits only, it is possible that the hobbyist who assembled the kit is responsible for the substitution, but I have no way of being certain that this base was not produced by Penn Line. Frank Dill" > > In the second email I sent I had included the picture of only the motor and picture #20 of the underside of the enine depicting the chassis located above the shell. I did not realize he had not yet seen the other 5-6 pictures I had sent. > > email #2: > > "Thanks for the photos. They just do not look quite like anything that Penn Line sold commercially. In the fall of 1963 Penn Line declared bankruptcy and ceased production very quickly. An auction was held and the rights to produce some of the locomotives were sold to Bowser. However Abe Mercer, who was the main designer of the switcher, retained the rights to the switcher. I think that he always hoped to revive Penn Line in some form. But never did. It is certainly possible that you have some kind of prototype, but I have no way of knowing because all these were the property of Penn Line Mfg. and were sold at the auction." > > I just resent the original photos showing the side views of both engines. I have not yet heard back from him. > > Thanks for the initial direction Ken. > Sean > > > Looks like you're on the home stretch Sean! You've helped all of us here at the Group too! Please thank Frank Dill for all of us for sharing the information! Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2495	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

So, basically, a prototype or a knock-off AFTER PennLine went into bankruptcy. Would be nice for my own knowledge to see a drawing of the original belt-drives, and to know what is meant by "early". Like, 5? 10? 100? Also, for historical purposes, to find out what holes were there and what were not, fill with epoxy before you paint, so you have an "original", not something some hobbyist cobbled up by cutting and drilling. That's just my antique-car hat talking........ > > > > Hello Ken, > > The following is from two emails I received back last night from > Frank Dill, the author and owner of the web-site you directed me > to... The first email I sent to him went to his son first. I did not > know he did not receive the first email and the photos it contained > until I received tha email from his son this morning. His son was > able to forward the message last night resulting in this first reply > email from Frank Dill, but he was unable to forward the photos. (Keep > in mind, he had no pictures to look at with the first responce.) > > > > email #1: > > > > "The very first Penn Line switchers did have a rubber band like > belt drive, and the first castings were rather rough as the three > founders did the castings themselves in single rented room over the > dairy in Boyertown. I have however never seen one with the plastic > base that you describe. As the first switchers were sold as kits > only, it is possible that the hobbyist who assembled the kit is > responsible for the substitution, but I have no way of being certain > that this base was not produced by Penn Line. Frank Dill" > > > > In the second email I sent I had included the picture of only the > motor and picture #20 of the underside of the enine depicting the > chassis located above the shell. I did not realize he had not yet > seen the other 5-6 pictures I had sent. > > > > email #2: > > > > "Thanks for the photos. They just do not look quite like anything > that Penn Line sold commercially. In the fall of 1963 Penn Line > declared bankruptcy and ceased production very quickly. An auction > was held and the rights to produce some of the locomotives were sold > to Bowser. However Abe Mercer, who was the main designer of the > switcher, retained the rights to the switcher. I think that he always > hoped to revive Penn Line in some form. But never did. It is > certainly possible that you have some kind of prototype, but I have > no way of knowing because all these were the property of Penn Line > Mfg. and were sold at the auction." > > > > I just resent the original photos showing the side views of both > engines. I have not yet heard back from him. > > > > Thanks for the initial direction Ken. > > Sean > > > > > > Looks like you're on the home stretch Sean! You've helped all of > us here at the Group too! Please thank Frank Dill for all of us for > sharing the information! Ken > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2496	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!

Hey Don, I may be wrong, but I think this eBay listing is a Athearn steam engine you might be interested in... 260082153450 Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2497	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

OK--dug mine out to compare.  Units I have are late die cast--have the nylon worm shafts--I think the drive gear is pressed on the hub.  The ball is on the end of the nylon shaft. Shaft between trucks is a nylon tube slotted at the ends for the pins on the balls. I can't find my Hobbytown driveshafts right now, but it looks like the sockets would fit the Varney balls. Piece of 3/32" shaft between?    On my units, the frames have the deep "U" where the couplers mount. Sam Clarke at Kadee fiddled with the couplers--I don't have the number he used, but it is one of the ones that had the short, rounded pocket and the hairspring to center it. Truck gearboxes are one piece, with the wheels/axles. driveshafts/ gears all assembled.    I have a couple of spare plastic A unit shells--I'd trade one for a B shell--I prefer the plastic shells for trailing units as it doesn't;t take as much power to move them   gj     ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:59 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Several questions Except: The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one piece. The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks. The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear issues with brass in Delrin. Let me describe what the finished product looks like: A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on the end with a bench grinder. About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off. The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck. The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the driveshaft falling out. Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for. A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected. Dave > > Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the best around for most applications. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions > > > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case. > > First, Athearn F-7's. > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part > in the coupler opening just below the buffer. > The closes up the vertical gap. > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not. > Right track? > > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's > left. > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything. > > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame, > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft. > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay). > > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find. > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides. > > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is: > > About 2" long overall. > Ball on each end about .210 diameter. > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with > a diameter of the pins about .085". > > Anybody got one of these? > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2498	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

OK--looked back at yours--male and female parts of the driveline are just the opposite from mine. Which makes me think that the Hobbytown balls might fit.   ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:59 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Several questions Except: The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one piece. The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks. The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear issues with brass in Delrin. Let me describe what the finished product looks like: A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on the end with a bench grinder. About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off. The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck. The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the driveshaft falling out. Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for. A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected. Dave > > Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the best around for most applications. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions > > > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case. > > First, Athearn F-7's. > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part > in the coupler opening just below the buffer. > The closes up the vertical gap. > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not. > Right track? > > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's > left. > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything. > > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame, > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft. > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay). > > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find. > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides. > > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is: > > About 2" long overall. > Ball on each end about .210 diameter. > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with > a diameter of the pins about .085". > > Anybody got one of these? > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2499	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini

I don't recall either of those--Athearn's Hustler came along at a time that men's hats were going out of style.  But--Varney's "Record" "Little Joe Goes to Town" did exist--I had one--a steel sheet stamping about 10" in diameter with a circle of fiber-tie flex track on it.  Don't know what ever happened to the one I had--but it has not shown up after several moves.   Anyone have one?  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: oljoeoh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:11 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb.... Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb on that. From what I understand that dome with the Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for years and it was run for viewers anytime a question was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were fun little switchers. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements. . I have to ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of knowing if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my engines. > > 1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO scale feet exactly. > 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the inside edge to the inside edge of each engine) (light = just to the left edge of the ruler mark & Heavy = just to the right of the mark) > 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on each, exactly. > 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different. > 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the inside edge of the tank on the other side. > 6' - 6" heavy on the green engine > 6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line... > Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner... > > oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked... > Sean > > > > > > > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > Hello Chuck, > By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful thinking > on my part. Thanks, sean > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@> > wrote: > > > > Sean, > > > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the > photos 19 to > > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn > Line, > > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just > too many > > differences, to the point that the similarities are there because > it is a > > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your > headlight, > > nice touch. Just my two cents. > > > > Take care. > > > > > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] > On Behalf > > Of sean naylor > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line > Mini > > Diesel. > > > > > > > > Hey Joe, > > > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the > > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not > apear to be > > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into > place bu a > > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and > the > > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the > > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add > gears, but > > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no > tabs to > > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the > same worm > > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis > openings (on > > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The > other > > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud > and the > > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is > also > > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare > with no > > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded > opening > > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect > that snce > > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower. > > > > > > > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because > it came > > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight. > My > > headlight works, by the way. > > > > > > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sean > > > > oljoeoh <oljoe@> wrote: > > > > Hi; > > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO > > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland > > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one > > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks > > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels > > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the > > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers. > > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to > > well to running around the layout in the same direction > > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into > > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a > > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it > > had been running in. > > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might > > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring" > > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor > > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at > > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you > > hold onto the original running gear. > > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a > > single one that wasn't gear driven. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > ps.com, > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Guys! > > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this > engine I > > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, > if > > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i > will > > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first > time I > > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the > Penn Line > > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly > smaller.. > > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my > core > > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe > when > > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire > > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1. > > > > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those > old > > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who > makes > > > them. > > > Thanks, Sean > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > ps.com, > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Guys... > > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini > Diesel. I > > > just > > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am > right > > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven > like > > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I > just > > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in > pieces and > > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to > figure > > > out > > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a > strip > > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it > spinning in > > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight > enough > > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels. > > > > Nice little engine though... > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > It's here! Your new message! > > Get new > > > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49938/ *http:/tools. search.yahoo. com/toolba > r/feat > > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2500	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini

That's great! and with Mantua couplers yet! ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. Hey Joe... Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend!   I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck - no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin striping. Sean Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2501	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions

I fopund the shaft, matches your dimensions as best I can tell. Send me your address offline I'll put it in the mail. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions >I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case. > > First, Athearn F-7's. > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part > in the coupler opening just below the buffer. > The closes up the vertical gap. > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not. > Right track? > > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's > left. > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything. > > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame, > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft. > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay). > > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find. > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides. > > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is: > > About 2" long overall. > Ball on each end about .210 diameter. > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with > a diameter of the pins about .085". > > Anybody got one of these? > > Thanks. > Dave > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2502	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: new poll for VintageHO

Don't blame me, blame the people who entered great photos.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:07 AM Subject: [vintageHO] RE: new poll for VintageHO Oh crap, couldn’t you make it a bit easier? They are all great shots. Lets see now, how does that go; eenie, weenee, min .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2503	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Attachments : ----- Original Message ----- From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb.... > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb > on that. From what I understand that dome with the > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were > fun little switchers. > Joe O'Loughlin Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early 50's. It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2504	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: More eBay madness

Attachments : eBay wasn't quite as good to me last week. I bid on FIVE Athearn "Original die" plastics (Reefers with the opeing doors,, box cars with no "claw", screwed on coupler pocket covers). Of the five, the only one I won was the one I was least excited about :-( (I really wanted the Blatz reefer). Anyway, for 99 cents plus shipping I couldn't go wrong. All it needed was Kadee wheelsets in the original Athearn sprung sideframes, and kadees on the ends, and it's running on the Milwaukee Northern. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2505	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hey Don, I have never seen that engine, but it looks alot like the Booster... I know it is not however. I would not mind getting my hands on one... Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@landolls. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb.... > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb > on that. From what I understand that dome with the > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were > fun little switchers. > Joe O'Loughlin Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early 50's. It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2506	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness

Hey Don, That Blatz is a nice car... I think I have a couple (probably several) like those reefers with the opening doors... No Blatz that I know of... So, which are they? Athearn or Varney? Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: eBay wasn't quite as good to me last week. I bid on FIVE Athearn "Original die" plastics (Reefers with the opeing doors,, box cars with no "claw", screwed on coupler pocket covers). Of the five, the only one I won was the one I was least excited about :-( (I really wanted the Blatz reefer). Anyway, for 99 cents plus shipping I couldn't go wrong. All it needed was Kadee wheelsets in the original Athearn sprung sideframes, and kadees on the ends, and it's running on the Milwaukee Northern. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2507	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. I don't even know if I want to dive into them. Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. But a Lionel FA? And TYCO? Even some "bachmann" crXp. There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made in Yugoslavia" 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2508	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness

Dear Sean,   I had those door-opening, hatch-opening cars...and mine was Athearn. I admit-I never saw a Varney one. (And those hatches were hell for a kid to get on. Doors were not easy either.)   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hey Don, That Blatz is a nice car... I think I have a couple (probably several) like those reefers with the opening doors... No Blatz that I know of... So, which are they? Athearn or Varney? Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: eBay wasn't quite as good to me last week. I bid on FIVE Athearn "Original die" plastics (Reefers with the opeing doors,, box cars with no "claw", screwed on coupler pocket covers). Of the five, the only one I won was the one I was least excited about :-( (I really wanted the Blatz reefer). Anyway, for 99 cents plus shipping I couldn't go wrong. All it needed was Kadee wheelsets in the original Athearn sprung sideframes, and kadees on the ends, and it's running on the Milwaukee Northern. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2509	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. I don't even know if I want to dive into them. Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. But a Lionel FA? And TYCO? Even some "bachmann" crXp. There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made in Yugoslavia" 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2510	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

I'm more thinking "bonfire" here. The really interesting part is to have been reworking all the families old die-cast stuff and having it work so well, from when H0 was in it's post-war heyday, and then to see this garbage from about 65 on that was, well, death throes. It's no freaking wonder the hobby went to hell in a handbasket. Man. I think I'll save some couplers, horns, and headlight lenses...... Dave > > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites! > > John > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > But a Lionel FA? > And TYCO? > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made > in Yugoslavia" > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2511	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. I don't even know if I want to dive into them. Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. But a Lionel FA? And TYCO? Even some "bachmann" crXp. There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made in Yugoslavia" 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2512	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The shell becomes a collectible, in that case.   John sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. I don't even know if I want to dive into them. Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. But a Lionel FA? And TYCO? Even some "bachmann" crXp. There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made in Yugoslavia" 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2513	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Back to the box

Attachments : Last night's Santa Fe reefer notwithstanding, I AM still working on the stuff from the Dockside box (including the Dockside itself). This flat car is a "Red Ball" kit. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2514	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness

>----- Original Message ----- >From: sean naylor >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:34 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More eBay madness >Hey Don, >That Blatz is a nice car... I think I have a couple (probably several) like >those reefers with the opening doors... No Blatz that I know of... So, >which are they? >Athearn or Varney? >Sean It seems everybody did the Blatz "Old Heidelburg" car, at one time I had the Varney cardstock version. The opening doors one I was bidding on was an Athearn. AFAIK, Athearn was the only one who ever did that (the separate door thingy). In plastic all Varney did that I've ever seen was the 36' "old time" reefer, 40' cars were only in card stock or metal versions. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2515	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 12:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > But a Lionel FA? > And TYCO? > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made > in Yugoslavia" > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? The Lionel FA was from the old Hobbyline dies. The problem is when they lettered it they heat stamaped the lettering in so even if you stripped it, the original road name was "embossed" in the sides (at least the C&O one I had once.) Rock Island F is a Mahanatonica, Rivarossi rip-offs, sold by AHM. May have also been sold under the "AT&T" (In fact your "atest" lettering makes me think that could be, "AT&T" stood for "American Train & Track") or "Model Power" names, ca. 1970's. You can always pack the box off to me if you want to throw it away. Don (pack rat) don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2516	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:06 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff > I'm more thinking "bonfire" here. > The really interesting part is to have been reworking all the > families old die-cast stuff and having it work so well, from when H0 > was in it's post-war heyday, and then to see this garbage from about > 65 on that was, well, death throes. > It's no freaking wonder the hobby went to hell in a handbasket. > Man. Which is EXACTLY why we're here! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2517	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

THAT is a very interesting pic of the Mantua Booster. If only someone had a pic of Irv Athearns train fedora. And a comment about greenie...... I just wonder if the origin is with Varney because of the running gear. Doing other things with running gear from an F-7 isn't anything new. I have a Marx HO hustler with an F-7 running gear. Runs ok but nothing out of the ordinary and very noisy. Marx didn't even bother to remove the F-7 sideframes from the running gear and leave the chassis naked. My Marx item is from 1960+- with typical Marx cheapie looks and construction. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Don, > I have never seen that engine, but it looks alot like the Booster... I know it is not however. I would not mind getting my hands on one... > Sean > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini > Diesel. > > > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb.... > > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw > > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand > > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim > > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys > > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had > > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for > > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb > > on that. From what I understand that dome with the > > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for > > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question > > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it > > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small > > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The > > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than > > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were > > fun little switchers. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out > until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early > 50's. > > It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2518	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

Hey John, Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this one...Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The shell becomes a collectible, in that case.   John sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. I don't even know if I want to dive into them. Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. But a Lionel FA? And TYCO? Even some "bachmann" crXp. There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made in Yugoslavia" 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2519	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Winter is a good thing

Attachments : Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement.. Got another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver Streak with missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a moulded rubber spring I never seen before, don't look half bad. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2520	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

Don, Would you please quit "whining" about your spring weather there, up here it's a balmy MINUS 22C with a Wind chill of MINUS 35C, at 2°F  we put on T-Shirts and go out "suntanning"...   LOL Dave S. AKA Deep Freeze Dave Don Dellmann wrote: Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement.. Got another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver Streak with missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a moulded rubber spring I never seen before, don't look half bad. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.22/666 - Release Date: 2/3/2007 3:31 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2521	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA. The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft out the front end. Is yours really powered? Dave > Hey John, > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this one...Sean > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The shell becomes a collectible, in that case. > > John > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. > Sean > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites! > > John > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > But a Lionel FA? > And TYCO? > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made > in Yugoslavia" > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? > > > > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2522	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

Don,   That end looks nice.  Is that a Penn-Line trailer in the background with Ulrich wheel sets?   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:50 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Winter is a good thing   Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement.. Got another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver Streak with missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a moulded rubber spring I never seen before, don't look half bad. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2523	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

Well, we've been down in the single digits this winter. Last ops session two weeks ago was so cold (and then a "fog") the rails iced up and we had one helluva time getting tonnage up the hill. Double-head was the rule of the day (and you ain't lived until you have a rod engine on the point and a Shay behind the caboose). Last night we ran until 2130, had to put the Thermal skivvies on at 1900. I think is was only 36. Went through two pots of coffee, and innumerable stogies, had about 10 or so operators. One little 4-wheel side-rod dismal, the rest rod and geared locos (about evenly split over the session). No hibernating in a warm basement here. Dave > > Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement.. Got > another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver Streak with > missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new > wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a moulded rubber > spring I never seen before, don't look half bad. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2524	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

Molded rubber springs were used in the mid to late 50’s if my memory serves me right, which it often doesn’t. But I do remember them, had several sets once upon a time. When I replaced model railroading with cars and girls during the teenage years and my brother took over all the train stuff (being 5+ years older he returned to trains first) the rubber springs were replaced by metal. I don’t think they preformed any better or worse, since most HO springs are too stiff to do any real “springing” action anyway, but I preferred metal because I thought they looked better. Actually some of the unsprung variety with the springs properly painted are the most prototypical looking. I don’t really remember why rubber was ever used in the first place.     Don Dellmann wrote: Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement..  Got another one done out of the "Dockside" box.  This was a Silver Streak with missing ends.  I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new wood ends out of styrene.  Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a molded rubber spring I never seen before, don't look half bad.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2525	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

>----- Original Message ----- >From: Chuck Higdon >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:39 PM >Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Winter is a good thing >Don, >That end looks nice. Is that a Penn-Line trailer in the background with >Ulrich wheel sets? >Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout >http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 Thanks. Nothing more than Evergreen scribed styrene sheet, some stip for the fascia boards, ladder, a platform and brake wheel from the scrap box. As far as the trailer, dead right! The tractor pulling it is a Model Hobbies early 50's Dodge cast in plaster of Paris. The Monon Trailer and the flat car that I got with it are pictured in my "miscellaneous" album on the home page. All I'm missing is the Ford "C" cab they offered with them. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2526	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

I'd seen rubber used in Athearn trucks before, what I was mainly talking about was the Micro-Motive brand itself.  I'd seen them advertised in old MR's from the 1940's, but never come across a pair.  They're one of the "elusive legends" like Baker couplers (of which I've only come across a couple pair in my time)   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:48 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Winter is a good thing Molded rubber springs were used in the mid to late 50’s if my memory serves me right, which it often doesn’t. But I do remember them, had several sets once upon a time. When I replaced model railroading with cars and girls during the teenage years and my brother took over all the train stuff (being 5+ years older he returned to trains first) the rubber springs were replaced by metal. I don’t think they preformed any better or worse, since most HO springs are too stiff to do any real “springing” action anyway, but I preferred metal because I thought they looked better. Actually some of the unsprung variety with the springs properly painted are the most prototypical looking. I don’t really remember why rubber was ever used in the first place.     Don Dellmann wrote: Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement..  Got another one done out of the "Dockside" box.  This was a Silver Streak with missing ends.  I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new wood ends out of styrene.  Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a molded rubber spring I never seen before, don't look half bad.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2527	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

Dear Dave,   I tossed mine about two years ago when an accident befell it. It was unpainted (or in its dim past I removed the paint), but there was no getting around those gawd-awful EMD trucks on an Alco design. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA. The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft out the front end. Is yours really powered? Dave > Hey John, > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this one...Sean > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The shell becomes a collectible, in that case. > > John > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. > Sean > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites! > > John > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > But a Lionel FA? > And TYCO? > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made > in Yugoslavia" > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2528	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

You talking to me? The one I have is, but I need the parts from the powered rear truck... Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA. The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft out the front end. Is yours really powered? Dave > Hey John, > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this one...Sean > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The shell becomes a collectible, in that case. > > John > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. > Sean > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites! > > John > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > But a Lionel FA? > And TYCO? > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made > in Yugoslavia" > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2529	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

Dave,   What side of the 49th Parallel are you living in?   John Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote: Don, Would you please quit "whining" about your spring weather there, up here it's a balmy MINUS 22C with a Wind chill of MINUS 35C, at 2°F we put on T-Shirts and go out "suntanning"... LOL Dave S. AKA Deep Freeze Dave Don Dellmann wrote: > Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement.. Got > another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver Streak with > missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new > wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a moulded rubber > spring I never seen before, don't look half bad. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.22/666 - Release Date: 2/3/2007 3:31 PM > Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2530	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: >…….. I think is was only 36. >   >   > No hibernating in a warm basement here.   36? 36? Around here 36 IS a warm basement (at least this weekend)!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2531	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

Just so long as you know that was warm. Two weeks ago when the rails froze it was 22, I think. We are out in the elements, wind chill (therometer is on the wall by the door shielded from wind) can make you fingers inoperative, yet we do it for 6-8 HOURS at a stretch. > > > > 36? 36? Around here 36 IS a warm basement (at least this weekend)! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2532	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

Didn't Athearn use rubber springs on some of their earlier trucks? Roger Aultman John Hagen wrote: > Molded rubber springs were used in the mid to late 50?s if my memory > serves me right, which it often doesn?t. But I do remember them, had > several sets once upon a time. When I replaced model railroading with > cars and girls during the teenage years and my brother took over all the > train stuff (being 5+ years older he returned to trains first) the > rubber springs were replaced by metal. I don?t think they preformed any > better or worse, since most HO springs are too stiff to do any real > ?springing? action anyway, but I preferred metal because I thought they > looked better. Actually some of the unsprung variety with the springs > properly painted are the most prototypical looking. I don?t really > remember why rubber was ever used in the first place. > > > > > > Don Dellmann wrote: > > Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement.. Got > > another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver Streak with > > missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new > > wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a molded rubber > > spring I never seen before, don't look half bad. > > > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2533	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

Only mean to kid a bit. I am well aware that whats on the thermometer and what you feel after you've been outside for a time are two different things. At 36, if theres little or no wind, I don't mind being outside for maybe 30 - 45 minutes. Then I'll be looking for the "in" door. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Just so long as you know that was warm. > Two weeks ago when the rails froze it was 22, I think. > We are out in the elements, wind chill (therometer is on the wall by > the door shielded from wind) can make you fingers inoperative, yet we > do it for 6-8 HOURS at a stretch. > > > > > > > > > > 36? 36? Around here 36 IS a warm basement (at least this weekend)! > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2534	From: Don RIley	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: open door Athearn reefers. was More eBay madness

LOL so the sellers made a bit of cash hey! Those open door reefers are cool! I have one too. Mine is lettered for Carnation. I also have the boxcars with no claws. Not sure where the claw idea came from. The real track looks better! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > eBay wasn't quite as good to me last week. I bid on FIVE Athearn "Original > die" plastics (Reefers with the opeing doors,, box cars with no "claw", > screwed on coupler pocket covers). Of the five, the only one I won was the > one I was least excited about :-( (I really wanted the Blatz reefer). > > Anyway, for 99 cents plus shipping I couldn't go wrong. All it needed was > Kadee wheelsets in the original Athearn sprung sideframes, and kadees on the > ends, and it's running on the Milwaukee Northern. > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2535	From: Don RIley	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

Wow nothing like a big box of crap! Those Athearn As are cool. Never had a Lionel FA so I do not know if they are worth the hastle. I sold my Tycos a long time ago. Sold um on ebay. The buyers were happy with them. Had a BN GP20 and a IC C636. BN was DOA (burned out motor) and the IC needed gears. Yes I told them so in the auctions. But they both sold! Also sold a bunch of Tyco cars and even some working accessortys. I had some Bachmann Santa F7s. My bro might still have them. I think I sitll have a few Bachmann cars somewhere. Sold one or two of um on ebay. Good luck!!!!!!!! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > But a Lionel FA? > And TYCO? > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made > in Yugoslavia" > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2536	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

What parts? This dummy truck has worm gears on the axles, if you need to swap parts. Dave > > You talking to me? The one I have is, but I need the parts from the powered rear truck... > Sean > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA. > The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft out > the front end. > Is yours really powered? > Dave > > > Hey John, > > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I > happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the > next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this > one...Sean > > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The > shell becomes a collectible, in that case. > > > > John > > > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I > believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum > truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen > to come accross. Has not yet appeared. > > Sean > > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites! > > > > John > > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and > picked up the > > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of > dismals. > > > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > > But a Lionel FA? > > And TYCO? > > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" > and "Made > > in Yugoslavia" > > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2537	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

That Mantua was the "Busy Bee"--the brass/zamak predecessor to the all-zamak "Booster". ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. Hey Don, I have never seen that engine, but it looks alot like the Booster... I know it is not however. I would not mind getting my hands on one... Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@landolls. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb.... > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb > on that. From what I understand that dome with the > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were > fun little switchers. > Joe O'Loughlin Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early 50's. It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2538	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Now THAT looks plausible--although I think they were still copying Varney.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. ----- Original Message ----- From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@landolls. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb.... > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb > on that. From what I understand that dome with the > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were > fun little switchers. > Joe O'Loughlin Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early 50's. It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2539	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness

I recall the MDC steel reefer with the opening doors and hatches--I need some doors for mine.  The hatches had to be fitted into their frame, then the frame riveted to the roof.  Easy job if we'd had super glue then--I recall Athearns with opening hatches, both steel and wood-type bodies.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:47 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More eBay madness Dear Sean,   I had those door-opening, hatch-opening cars...and mine was Athearn. I admit-I never saw a Varney one. (And those hatches were hell for a kid to get on. Doors were not easy either.)   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hey Don, That Blatz is a nice car... I think I have a couple (probably several) like those reefers with the opening doors... No Blatz that I know of... So, which are they? Athearn or Varney? Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: eBay wasn't quite as good to me last week. I bid on FIVE Athearn "Original die" plastics (Reefers with the opeing doors,, box cars with no "claw", screwed on coupler pocket covers). Of the five, the only one I won was the one I was least excited about :-( (I really wanted the Blatz reefer). Anyway, for 99 cents plus shipping I couldn't go wrong. All it needed was Kadee wheelsets in the original Athearn sprung sideframes, and kadees on the ends, and it's running on the Milwaukee Northern. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2540	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky! ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. I don't even know if I want to dive into them. Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. But a Lionel FA? And TYCO? Even some "bachmann" crXp. There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made in Yugoslavia" 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2541	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: dry brush vs spray paint wood model passenger cars-LaBelle

Dry brushing gives you a lot of control over how much paint is applied and what it will look like.  It is also very useful for weathering where you want to just put down a little paint or perhaps have more paint on highlights.  It does take a little skill and practice because it is a little bit like "art".   Spray painting (usually with an air brush) just puts on a mostly even coat if painting the entire model and can risk filling in nooks and crannies if you aren't careful.  Of course, it takes a little skill to use an air brush.  And even more skill to use it real well for weathering and there is certainly a place for it.  But dry brushing can give results that you really can't get with an air brush.   Yes, new equipment was built nicely painted.  But it tended to start weathering at least a little very quickly.  And from that point, the range of weathering is from "freshly shopped" to "dilapidated".  The more on the end of that spectrum towards "dilapidated", the more a technique like dry brushing is handy.  Since model equipment doesn't seem to weather very much, many build it with the weathering already on it and that is why there are so many techniques and materials like dry brushing, washes, chalks, techniques for simulating peeling paint, and so forth.   I suppose you could use dry brushing to paint a so called "freshly shopped" car, and I suspect it might work out reasonably well for actual wood, but less well for smooth nonabsorbent surfaces like metal and plastic.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: jim gerstley To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:17 AM Subject: [vintageHO] dry brush vs spray paint wood model passenger cars-LaBelle What is the advantage of drybrushing a wood model vs spray painting with Floquil, P-B-L or similar products? Would think drybrushing would give a lot of paint texture? And 1:1 wood passenger cars always had a smooth semi-gloss finish as I recall. Jim --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Maryann, > > You do not use sanding sealer on a wooden kit that is supposed to represent a wooden car. That would hide the wood grain ( and Don said that already.) The old wooden cars were not airbrushed or spray painted (talking of the prototype cars.) You may want to dry brush ( a low amount of paint on a paint brush) the car side with the desired color you don't have an excessive amount of paint on the wood. Paint with the grain of the wood. A thin spray of a clear coat is used to cover the dried color to provide a thin smooth surface for applying decals or dry transfers. -------. On the clear coat thing, you can add more after the decal dries in place if you want a varnished look. ------- > John Barlow (jdenver4150@ ...) > > > > > > > > maobuch@... wrote: > Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood > Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating? For its been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of the 24 kits done... > > > Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch > http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html > PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can > See what you are saying to me !!! > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > TV dinner still cooling? > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2542	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Enlisting the help of a two year old...

Corrently at my train station (my work desk) there are about 16 Mantua Booster engines in various stages of completion and condition... Of those, there are seven that have had their smoke stacks filled to the brim with my hobby oil. I was using it to lube some N scale engines I was photographing in preparation to list on eBay tonight. Next thing I knew I could not find my oil anywhere... I knew way immediately... eventhough I had not found it. I new my 2 year old Miranda was "Fix'n Daadee's trains". No, she was not helping and if you ask her if she is "helping Daddy?" She will say "No! I'm fix'n Daadee's trains." I have gon through several $4 per ounce hobby oil bottles this way... Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2543	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

Attachments : Hey Dave, I think what I need is the plactic cover with the sideframes that snaps into place and the power pick-up strap which brushes against the drivers... The mounting tab on the plastic cover I have has broken.  If you have what I need, I am sure we can work out some sort of trade... Thanks, Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: What parts? This dummy truck has worm gears on the axles, if you need to swap parts. Dave > > You talking to me? The one I have is, but I need the parts from the powered rear truck... > Sean > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA. > The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft out > the front end. > Is yours really powered? > Dave > > > Hey John, > > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I > happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the > next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this > one...Sean > > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote: > > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The > shell becomes a collectible, in that case. > > > > John > > > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ > wrote: > > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I > believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum > truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen > to come accross. Has not yet appeared. > > Sean > > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote: > > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites! > > > > John > > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ > wrote: > > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and > picked up the > > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of > dismals. > > > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > > But a Lionel FA? > > And TYCO? > > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" > and "Made > > in Yugoslavia" > > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2544	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

I have the Busy Bee... Mine is not complete... I did not even notice! It looked biggere to me on the hat! Thanks... Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: That Mantua was the "Busy Bee"--the brass/zamak predecessor to the all-zamak "Booster". ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. Hey Don, I have never seen that engine, but it looks alot like the Booster... I know it is not however. I would not mind getting my hands on one... Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@landolls. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb.... > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb > on that. From what I understand that dome with the > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were > fun little switchers. > Joe O'Loughlin Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early 50's. It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2545	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Enlisting the help of a two year old...

Attachments : Would help if I could spell "currently"   Here are the pics... a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Corrently at my train station (my work desk) there are about 16 Mantua Booster engines in various stages of completion and condition... Of those, there are seven that have had their smoke stacks filled to the brim with my hobby oil. I was using it to lube some N scale engines I was photographing in preparation to list on eBay tonight. Next thing I knew I could not find my oil anywhere... I knew way immediately. .. eventhough I had not found it. I new my 2 year old Miranda was "Fix'n Daadee's trains". No, she was not helping and if you ask her if she is "helping Daddy?" She will say "No! I'm fix'n Daadee's trains." I have gon through several $4 per ounce hobby oil bottles this way... Sean Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2546	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

You mean at the coupler end? I think that's broken on this one, too. You have sideframes there? I was going to "invent" a fix for that stupid tab on this one. I'll keep you posted. Dave > > Hey Dave, > I think what I need is the plactic cover with the sideframes that snaps into place and the power pick-up strap which brushes against the drivers... The mounting tab on the plastic cover I have has broken. If you have what I need, I am sure we can work out some sort of trade... Thanks, Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > What parts? > This dummy truck has worm gears on the axles, if you need to swap > parts. > Dave > > > > > You talking to me? The one I have is, but I need the parts from > the powered rear truck... > > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > > Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA. > > The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft > out > > the front end. > > Is yours really powered? > > Dave > > > > > Hey John, > > > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I > > happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the > > next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this > > one...Sean > > > > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The > > shell becomes a collectible, in that case. > > > > > > John > > > > > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I > > believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum > > truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I > happen > > to come accross. Has not yet appeared. > > > Sean > > > > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites! > > > > > > John > > > > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > > > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and > > picked up the > > > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of > > dismals. > > > > > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > > > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > > > But a Lionel FA? > > > And TYCO? > > > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > > > > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > > > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" > > and "Made > > > in Yugoslavia" > > > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this > stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2547	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

I have more fun up close with a .45ACP, but range with a 12GA side- by-side works.... > > Ya really wanna terminate a loco? Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff > > > > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. > Sean > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites! > > John > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > But a Lionel FA? > And TYCO? > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made > in Yugoslavia" > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2548	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

That's a lot of...hate! Woooooo!   John Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky! ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. I don't even know if I want to dive into them. Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. But a Lionel FA? And TYCO? Even some "bachmann" crXp. There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made in Yugoslavia" 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2549	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

Yes... that is the one.... Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: You mean at the coupler end? I think that's broken on this one, too. You have sideframes there? I was going to "invent" a fix for that stupid tab on this one. I'll keep you posted. Dave > > Hey Dave, > I think what I need is the plactic cover with the sideframes that snaps into place and the power pick-up strap which brushes against the drivers... The mounting tab on the plastic cover I have has broken. If you have what I need, I am sure we can work out some sort of trade... Thanks, Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > What parts? > This dummy truck has worm gears on the axles, if you need to swap > parts. > Dave > > > > > You talking to me? The one I have is, but I need the parts from > the powered rear truck... > > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ > wrote: > > Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA. > > The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft > out > > the front end. > > Is yours really powered? > > Dave > > > > > Hey John, > > > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I > > happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the > > next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this > > one...Sean > > > > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote: > > > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The > > shell becomes a collectible, in that case. > > > > > > John > > > > > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ > wrote: > > > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I > > believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum > > truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I > happen > > to come accross. Has not yet appeared. > > > Sean > > > > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote: > > > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites! > > > > > > John > > > > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ > wrote: > > > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and > > picked up the > > > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of > > dismals. > > > > > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > > > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > > > But a Lionel FA? > > > And TYCO? > > > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > > > > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > > > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" > > and "Made > > > in Yugoslavia" > > > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this > stuff? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2550	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

My wife wants to do that to her computer, frankly I don't blame her it an antique P2 with a 6 GB hard drive. She gets a new one when the income tax refund arrives.... Dave S. John Barlow wrote: That's a lot of...hate! Woooooo!   John Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky! ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. I don't even know if I want to dive into them. Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. But a Lionel FA? And TYCO? Even some "bachmann" crXp. There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made in Yugoslavia" 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.22/666 - Release Date: 2/3/2007 3:31 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2551	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

Hang on to that old computer and use it as your main Internet terminal. With the crap attacking computers from The Web, it's a good safety factor to keep your -real- computer off-line as much as possible. You can get tricky about it and make a custom re-install disk to quickly restore the old computer after a Net attack. That's where you'll wipe the old computer and reload it with all your settings and protection turned on.......... And ready to run in a bit over five minutes..... Look up 'slip-streaming' in a web search and you'll find some programs you only need to click with to make that custom start-up disk for your machine........ Add a look for optimizing your OS and you'll be able to set that older computer Web system to run slim and fast as a mainly web-browsing only system.  If you want to have it sitting next to your new computer, but not needing it's own monitor/keyboard/mouse.... look at the $30-$50 KVM's that let you share those between a couple of separate computers boxes with a flick of a single switch. I do much the same with a non-windows computer that is almost completely safe from the crap trying to infect and damage Windows systems. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 3, 2007, at 11:39 PM, Dave Slater wrote: My wife wants to do that to her computer, frankly I don't blame her it an antique P2 with a 6 GB hard drive. She gets a new one when the income tax refund arrives.... Dave S. John Barlow wrote: That's a lot of...hate! Woooooo!   John Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2552	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

I already have an old computer of about the same vintage set up for that..  <VBG> I also have an even older (just barely older) one for use with a Digitrax PR1 programmer on Win 95.... <G> Dave S. Mike Bauers wrote: Hang on to that old computer and use it as your main Internet terminal. With the crap attacking computers from The Web, it's a good safety factor to keep your -real- computer off-line as much as possible. You can get tricky about it and make a custom re-install disk to quickly restore the old computer after a Net attack. That's where you'll wipe the old computer and reload it with all your settings and protection turned on.......... And ready to run in a bit over five minutes..... Look up 'slip-streaming' in a web search and you'll find some programs you only need to click with to make that custom start-up disk for your machine........ Add a look for optimizing your OS and you'll be able to set that older computer Web system to run slim and fast as a mainly web-browsing only system.  If you want to have it sitting next to your new computer, but not needing it's own monitor/keyboard/mouse.... look at the $30-$50 KVM's that let you share those between a couple of separate computers boxes with a flick of a single switch. I do much the same with a non-windows computer that is almost completely safe from the crap trying to infect and damage Windows systems. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 3, 2007, at 11:39 PM, Dave Slater wrote: My wife wants to do that to her computer, frankly I don't blame her it an antique P2 with a 6 GB hard drive. She gets a new one when the income tax refund arrives.... Dave S. John Barlow wrote: That's a lot of...hate! Woooooo!   John Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.22/666 - Release Date: 2/3/2007 3:31 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2553	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Brass and NS track......

Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the moolah to switch. I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night, and we had nothing. Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power. Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two), and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails. Hard grey encrustation. We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all. I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up rusty, of all things. So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but the brass is far easier to clean. Any ideas? Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2554	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Another question

The Athearn dummy "A"s out of this last batch are fine. The rest, well, it all works, but for how long and how well? The surprise was an Athearn SW-1500. Cleaned, lubed, runs good. But: I need a good photo of how the Athearn (not prototype) had the handrails "plumbed". The step rails to the cab door, and the ones up the end steps for sure. I have material and stanchions, just want it somewhat "right" for as- delivered. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2555	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

I like the Win. 97 trench broom.  Seriously--Edge Wireless was running that as their TV commercial. ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff I have more fun up close with a .45ACP, but range with a 12GA side- by-side works.... > > Ya really wanna terminate a loco? Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff > > > > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. > Sean > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites! > > John > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them. > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. > But a Lionel FA? > And TYCO? > Even some "bachmann" crXp. > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made > in Yugoslavia" > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - --------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - ----------- > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2556	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

I think it's more frustration. A friend used to keep a rather large firecracker on his workbench--we'd pass it back and forth when things started to go haywire--or at least ask, "are you ready for this?"  ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff That's a lot of...hate! Woooooo!   John Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky! ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared. Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals. I don't even know if I want to dive into them. Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem. But a Lionel FA? And TYCO? Even some "bachmann" crXp. There is one...Rock Islan F7-A. Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made in Yugoslavia" 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff? We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2557	From: Neal Rammacher	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

NS is without a doubt the cat's meow.   I just clean mine with alcohol rubs and the trains run very well. We have Atlas Truetrack. Somebody told me once you can also use tuner cleaner to finish the job.     neal and the gang ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Brass and NS track...... Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the moolah to switch. I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night, and we had nothing. Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power. Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two), and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails. Hard grey encrustation. We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all. I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up rusty, of all things. So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but the brass is far easier to clean. Any ideas? Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2558	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

Dave, Nickel Silver does not rust. It may form a grey-ish, dull appearance. This corrosion is relatively easy to remove and slightly conductive.   You have some steel track - cute but not useful. Why it had a grey coating - maye it was plated with something. Rust is iron oxide, whereas Nickel is an alloy of Copper, Zinc and Nickel.   Sorry for the bad news.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the moolah to switch. I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night, and we had nothing. Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power. Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two), and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails. Hard grey encrustation. We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all. I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up rusty, of all things. So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but the brass is far easier to clean. Any ideas? Dave Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2559	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question

Attachments : ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Another question > The Athearn dummy "A"s out of this last batch are fine. > The rest, well, it all works, but for how long and how well? > > The surprise was an Athearn SW-1500. > Cleaned, lubed, runs good. > But: > I need a good photo of how the Athearn (not prototype) had the > handrails "plumbed". > The step rails to the cab door, and the ones up the end steps for sure. > > I have material and stanchions, just want it somewhat "right" for as- > delivered. > > Thanks. > Dave Is it REALLY an SW-1500 or the SW-7 that Athearn sold as an SW-1500 for many many years? If the latter, this pictuire may help. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2560	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

Only one had the rusty bit, and I think that was the "TYCO Austria". The others have this encrustation you can literally chip off! Dave > > Dave, Nickel Silver does not rust. It may form a grey-ish, dull appearance. This corrosion is relatively easy to remove and slightly conductive. > > You have some steel track - cute but not useful. Why it had a grey coating - maye it was plated with something. Rust is iron oxide, whereas Nickel is an alloy of Copper, Zinc and Nickel. > > Sorry for the bad news. > > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some > steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the > moolah to switch. > > I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night, > and we had nothing. > Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power. > > Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two), > and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails. > Hard grey encrustation. > We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all. > I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up > rusty, of all things. > > So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but > the brass is far easier to clean. > > Any ideas? > > Dave > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2561	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Brass and NS track...... > Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some > steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the > moolah to switch. > > I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night, > and we had nothing. > Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power. > > Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two), > and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails. > Hard grey encrustation. > We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all. > I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up > rusty, of all things. > > So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but > the brass is far easier to clean. > > Any ideas? > > Dave I really question if the Bachmann Hong Kong was really nickel silver. You should NEVER have "rust" with NS, at's an allow of copper, nickel & zinc. I'd guess it's really steel track. Brass may be easier to clean, but won't stay clean. The main reson nickel silver is better is that it's oxide is electrically conductive, while the oxides of brass and steel are insulators. I clean my track MAYBE once a year, and then only when I haven't run in a long time. Brass needs to be cleaned almost every operating session. My trolley modules spend the year stored in an unheated, un-airconditioned garage. When they're brought out every November for trainfest, a quick wipe of alcohol and they're ready to go. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2562	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

Well, I went out and through the entire box. "TYCO Austria", "TYCO Hong Kong", "Bachmann, Hong Kong", and some outfit afraid to put their name on in, but made in "Yugoslavia". The stuff is able to be picked up with a magnet. It's silver-y on the sides, file, 240, 400 and a greenie and nothing will make it "shine". Engines I thought were going to take more work now run on a test track of 8 sections of brass gone over with a greenie just fine. He had bought this stuff over the years to add to the ancient brass we had for my nephew's railroad. All this time he thought it was NS. It's all taped in bundles separately from the usable brass. I'm going to suggest "landfill". Funny, the stuff you can get to run. Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:30 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Brass and NS track...... > > > > Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some > > steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the > > moolah to switch. > > > > I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night, > > and we had nothing. > > Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power. > > > > Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two), > > and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails. > > Hard grey encrustation. > > We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all. > > I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up > > rusty, of all things. > > > > So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but > > the brass is far easier to clean. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Dave > > I really question if the Bachmann Hong Kong was really nickel silver. You > should NEVER have "rust" with NS, at's an allow of copper, nickel & zinc. > I'd guess it's really steel track. > > Brass may be easier to clean, but won't stay clean. The main reson nickel > silver is better is that it's oxide is electrically conductive, while the > oxides of brass and steel are insulators. I clean my track MAYBE once a > year, and then only when I haven't run in a long time. Brass needs to be > cleaned almost every operating session. My trolley modules spend the year > stored in an unheated, un-airconditioned garage. When they're brought out > every November for trainfest, a quick wipe of alcohol and they're ready to > go. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2563	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question

Just going by their description is all. I'll go look and see how they were. The rails to the rear cab door, just really wanted to see how they were bent (straight 45° or multiple bends) and the angle of the vertical portion of the rails at the end steps. Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:33 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Another question > > > > The Athearn dummy "A"s out of this last batch are fine. > > The rest, well, it all works, but for how long and how well? > > > > The surprise was an Athearn SW-1500. > > Cleaned, lubed, runs good. > > But: > > I need a good photo of how the Athearn (not prototype) had the > > handrails "plumbed". > > The step rails to the cab door, and the ones up the end steps for sure. > > > > I have material and stanchions, just want it somewhat "right" for as- > > delivered. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > Is it REALLY an SW-1500 or the SW-7 that Athearn sold as an SW- 1500 for many > many years? > > If the latter, this pictuire may help. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2564	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question

arrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh. I'm on "web only" and the photos don't show up. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:33 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Another question > > > > The Athearn dummy "A"s out of this last batch are fine. > > The rest, well, it all works, but for how long and how well? > > > > The surprise was an Athearn SW-1500. > > Cleaned, lubed, runs good. > > But: > > I need a good photo of how the Athearn (not prototype) had the > > handrails "plumbed". > > The step rails to the cab door, and the ones up the end steps for sure. > > > > I have material and stanchions, just want it somewhat "right" for as- > > delivered. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > Is it REALLY an SW-1500 or the SW-7 that Athearn sold as an SW- 1500 for many > many years? > > If the latter, this pictuire may help. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2565	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

I just called the Bach-Man and asked. The only NS they have ever had is the black roadbed EZTrack, and this stuff is long before his time! Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:30 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Brass and NS track...... > > > > Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some > > steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the > > moolah to switch. > > > > I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night, > > and we had nothing. > > Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power. > > > > Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two), > > and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails. > > Hard grey encrustation. > > We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all. > > I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up > > rusty, of all things. > > > > So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but > > the brass is far easier to clean. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Dave > > I really question if the Bachmann Hong Kong was really nickel silver. You > should NEVER have "rust" with NS, at's an allow of copper, nickel & zinc. > I'd guess it's really steel track. > > Brass may be easier to clean, but won't stay clean. The main reson nickel > silver is better is that it's oxide is electrically conductive, while the > oxides of brass and steel are insulators. I clean my track MAYBE once a > year, and then only when I haven't run in a long time. Brass needs to be > cleaned almost every operating session. My trolley modules spend the year > stored in an unheated, un-airconditioned garage. When they're brought out > every November for trainfest, a quick wipe of alcohol and they're ready to > go. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2566	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track...... > Well, I went out and through the entire box. > "TYCO Austria", "TYCO Hong Kong", "Bachmann, Hong Kong", and some > outfit afraid to put their name on in, but made in "Yugoslavia". > > The stuff is able to be picked up with a magnet. > It's silver-y on the sides, file, 240, 400 and a greenie and nothing > will make it "shine". > Engines I thought were going to take more work now run on a test > track of 8 sections of brass gone over with a greenie just fine. > > He had bought this stuff over the years to add to the ancient brass > we had for my nephew's railroad. > > All this time he thought it was NS. > It's all taped in bundles separately from the usable brass. > I'm going to suggest "landfill". > > Funny, the stuff you can get to run. > > Dave The made in Yugoslavia stuff came from AHM. If it's magnetic, it's definitely steel. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2567	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question

Sent you better pictures off list Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:59 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Another question > arrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh. > I'm on "web only" and the photos don't show up. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:33 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Another question >> >> >> > The Athearn dummy "A"s out of this last batch are fine. >> > The rest, well, it all works, but for how long and how well? >> > >> > The surprise was an Athearn SW-1500. >> > Cleaned, lubed, runs good. >> > But: >> > I need a good photo of how the Athearn (not prototype) had the >> > handrails "plumbed". >> > The step rails to the cab door, and the ones up the end steps > for sure. >> > >> > I have material and stanchions, just want it somewhat "right" > for as- >> > delivered. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > Dave >> >> Is it REALLY an SW-1500 or the SW-7 that Athearn sold as an SW- > 1500 for many >> many years? >> >> If the latter, this pictuire may help. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2568	From: bitlerisvj	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

Yep, the OLD Tyco stuff is definitely steel, and probably not a good grade of steel. My son-in-law dug his out one day and asked me to see if I could make it run. I did, but I really should have just bought new track. Bachmann EZ track is probably the way to go these days for Train Sets. The only way to fix this stuff is to use sandpaper or a file. But, it will eventually rust again. This "vintage" stuff is probably not very useful to use. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:38 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track...... > > > > Well, I went out and through the entire box. > > "TYCO Austria", "TYCO Hong Kong", "Bachmann, Hong Kong", and some > > outfit afraid to put their name on in, but made in "Yugoslavia". > > > > The stuff is able to be picked up with a magnet. > > It's silver-y on the sides, file, 240, 400 and a greenie and nothing > > will make it "shine". > > Engines I thought were going to take more work now run on a test > > track of 8 sections of brass gone over with a greenie just fine. > > > > He had bought this stuff over the years to add to the ancient brass > > we had for my nephew's railroad. > > > > All this time he thought it was NS. > > It's all taped in bundles separately from the usable brass. > > I'm going to suggest "landfill". > > > > Funny, the stuff you can get to run. > > > > Dave > > The made in Yugoslavia stuff came from AHM. If it's magnetic, it's > definitely steel. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2569	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > Yep, the OLD Tyco stuff is definitely steel, and probably not a good > grade of steel. My son-in-law dug his out one day and asked me to see > if I could make it run. I did, but I really should have just bought > new track. Bachmann EZ track is probably the way to go these days for > Train Sets. The only way to fix this stuff is to use sandpaper or a > file. But, it will eventually rust again. This "vintage" stuff is > probably not very useful to use. > Regards, Vic Bitleris There absolutely no reason not to use vintage rail as long as it's vintage NS that is. I remember a review of that TYCO track in MR some years ago, it was steel with some sort of plating. As I recall it seemed ok wnem new but they questioned how it would age. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2570	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

Yes, had some kind of "coating", that was for sure. Only one piece really had any visible rust, and that was on the web. No idea what kind of "alloy" makes a grey crust and not rust. Trash can, here they come. In the "old days", we built with recycled TruScale, spiked rails down, and the rails were, oh, 3 or 4 foot sections of steel. Real steel, when it rusted you could see it. No idea where the rail came from, who made it, we just ended up with it. Never had any issues with that stuff, but over the years of movig, set up, tear down layouts, the steel got less and less, and the brass more and more. Brass worked fine if you cleaned it once in a while. Dave > > > > Yep, the OLD Tyco stuff is definitely steel, and probably not a good > > grade of steel. My son-in-law dug his out one day and asked me to see > > if I could make it run. I did, but I really should have just bought > > new track. Bachmann EZ track is probably the way to go these days for > > Train Sets. The only way to fix this stuff is to use sandpaper or a > > file. But, it will eventually rust again. This "vintage" stuff is > > probably not very useful to use. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > > > There absolutely no reason not to use vintage rail as long as it's > vintage NS that is. I remember a review of that TYCO track in MR some > years ago, it was steel with some sort of plating. As I recall it > seemed ok wnem new but they questioned how it would age. > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2571	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

Just as an FYI, REAL Steel is probably the BEST for Model railroading, IF you run trains regularly. Steel wheels against Steel rail will get you the BEST traction possible and it is a VERY good electrical conductor. The only drawback to Steel is that it will rust if not used regulary and then it is a pain to clean. Brass is second best, but it oxidizes with a coating that is an insulator. Nickle against Nickle is the worst for traction. However, for overall reliability and appearance, Nickle is the way to go. When Nickle oxidizes, the coating is electrically conductive. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track...... Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:43:46 -0000 Yes, had some kind of "coating", that was for sure. Only one piece really had any visible rust, and that was on the web. No idea what kind of "alloy" makes a grey crust and not rust. Trash can, here they come. In the "old days", we built with recycled TruScale, spiked rails down, and the rails were, oh, 3 or 4 foot sections of steel. Real steel, when it rusted you could see it. No idea where the rail came from, who made it, we just ended up with it. Never had any issues with that stuff, but over the years of movig, set up, tear down layouts, the steel got less and less, and the brass more and more. Brass worked fine if you cleaned it once in a while. Dave > > > > Yep, the OLD Tyco stuff is definitely steel, and probably not a good > > grade of steel. My son-in-law dug his out one day and asked me to see > > if I could make it run. I did, but I really should have just bought > > new track. Bachmann EZ track is probably the way to go these days for > > Train Sets. The only way to fix this stuff is to use sandpaper or a > > file. But, it will eventually rust again. This "vintage" stuff is > > probably not very useful to use. > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > > > There absolutely no reason not to use vintage rail as long as it's > vintage NS that is. I remember a review of that TYCO track in MR some > years ago, it was steel with some sort of plating. As I recall it > seemed ok wnem new but they questioned how it would age. > > John Hagen > _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2572	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

Actually, as the following table will demonstrate, iron/steel is one of the poorer conducting metals. <http://metals.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.reade.com/Particle%5FBriefings/elec%5Fres.html> or <http://www.tiny.cc/TL1Hb> if that is too long. Plus, for model railroading purposes, it is hard to cut and drill, and not easy to bend. Mike Victor Bitleris wrote: > > > Just as an FYI, REAL Steel is probably the BEST for Model railroading, IF > you run trains regularly. Steel wheels against Steel rail will get you the > BEST traction possible and it is a VERY good electrical conductor. The only > drawback to Steel is that it will rust if not used regulary and then it > is a > pain to clean. Brass is second best, but it oxidizes with a coating that is > an insulator. Nickle against Nickle is the worst for traction. However, > for overall reliability and appearance, Nickle is the way to go. When > Nickle oxidizes, the coating is electrically conductive. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@...> Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> It's hard to argue against cynics - they always sound smarter than optimists because they have so much evidence on their side. -- Molly Ivins 1944-2007

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2573	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

No arguments on conductivity. But for traction, the best overall (and this is half-0, 0, and 1 gauge experience) is cast iron drive wheels on steel rail. Next is pot-metal (or some other type of cast metal) drivers on oxidized aluminum. I have 150' of continuous 4% grade, and with the plating off the drivers, one 2-truck Shay will pull, in dry wearther, unassisted with no wheel slip, 28-34 loads up said grade. Anecdotally, it seems brass drivered locos on brass track pull less well than steel drivers on brass (1951 Mantua Mike and early Athearn dismals with steel wheels). But, I've not done weight and drawbar pull anaalysis of those. Dave > > Actually, as the following table will demonstrate, iron/steel is one of > the poorer conducting metals. > <http://metals.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm? site=http://www.reade.com/Particle%5FBriefings/elec%5Fres.html> > or <http://www.tiny.cc/TL1Hb> if that is too long. > > Plus, for model railroading purposes, it is hard to cut and drill, and > not easy to bend. > > Mike > > Victor Bitleris wrote: > > > > > > Just as an FYI, REAL Steel is probably the BEST for Model railroading, IF > > you run trains regularly. Steel wheels against Steel rail will get you the > > BEST traction possible and it is a VERY good electrical conductor. The only > > drawback to Steel is that it will rust if not used regulary and then it > > is a > > pain to clean. Brass is second best, but it oxidizes with a coating that is > > an insulator. Nickle against Nickle is the worst for traction. However, > > for overall reliability and appearance, Nickle is the way to go. When > > Nickle oxidizes, the coating is electrically conductive. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > -- > Mike Sloane > Allamuchy NJ > <mikesloane@...> > Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> > Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> > > It's hard to argue against cynics - they always sound smarter > than optimists because they have so much evidence on their side. > -- Molly Ivins 1944-2007 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2574	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > No arguments on conductivity. But for traction, the best overall > (and this is half-0, 0, and 1 gauge experience) is cast iron drive > wheels on steel rail. A few years back (around 1928) I had an "Athearn" switcher. Started out as an S-12, ended up with a Cary ALCO S-2 shell, modified frame, added lead where ever I could put it, Sagami can motor w/two flywheels and Ernst gears. Before I put in the Sagami motor, it had Heiden (may not be correct on spelling) reduction gears in place of the flywheels PLUS the Ernst gears in the trucks. This came out to a 144 to 1 gear reduction! I changed over when the Heiden gers stripped. The idea of this was to get a switcher that would run at steady, slow speed whether running empty or moving up to seven weighted 40 ft cars. The cars ran 4 - 4.5 ozs. All this was for my John Allen designed "Time-saver" switching game. The idea here was to score the operator based on total time to solve the assigned problem, not the number of moves. As such the locomotive moved at a pre-set speed and the operator could only start, stop and reverse it. With a standard Athearn engine the speed would have to be way too fast when running light or with a couple of cars in order for it to move at all with 4, 5 or 6 cars. It really worked quite well, especially after I put in the Sagami motor and added all the weight. It ran slow, smooth and had very little speed variation right up until it stalled due to slippage. And could it haul! I was able to switch 50 + cuts of 5 oz. cars on a friends layout (Don is a witness to this). When the layouts owner's Hobbytown powered Cary SW1500 shelled switcher stalled on an unreachable turnout (4 wheel pick-up) I could move it off the dead spot with the S-2. UNTIL, I installed NS wheels. The layout was converted to command control (pre-digital) so the sintered iron wheels had to go to ensure good electrical contact. After that I was lucky to 40 cars in the same area and I couldn't begin to budge that SW1500! John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2575	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > No arguments on conductivity. But for traction, the best overall > > (and this is half-0, 0, and 1 gauge experience) is cast iron drive > > wheels on steel rail. > > A few years back (around 1928) I had an "Athearn" switcher. Started Darn I hate it when I do that! Obvisously I meant 1982! BTW, this was on NS track. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2576	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

Atlas and others made steel-rail flex track during the Korean War. ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track...... > Well, I went out and through the entire box. > "TYCO Austria", "TYCO Hong Kong", "Bachmann, Hong Kong", and some > outfit afraid to put their name on in, but made in "Yugoslavia" . > > The stuff is able to be picked up with a magnet. > It's silver-y on the sides, file, 240, 400 and a greenie and nothing > will make it "shine". > Engines I thought were going to take more work now run on a test > track of 8 sections of brass gone over with a greenie just fine. > > He had bought this stuff over the years to add to the ancient brass > we had for my nephew's railroad. > > All this time he thought it was NS. > It's all taped in bundles separately from the usable brass. > I'm going to suggest "landfill". > > Funny, the stuff you can get to run. > > Dave The made in Yugoslavia stuff came from AHM. If it's magnetic, it's definitely steel. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2577	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track...... > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> >> wrote: >> > >> > No arguments on conductivity. But for traction, the best overall >> > (and this is half-0, 0, and 1 gauge experience) is cast iron drive >> > wheels on steel rail. >> >> A few years back (around 1928) I had an "Athearn" switcher. Started > > Darn I hate it when I do that! Obvisously I meant 1982! > > BTW, this was on NS track. > > John Hagen I HOPE it wasn't 1928! 'cause as you said, I was there! :-) I may be old, but not THAT old. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2578	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: One Athearn part needed

For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- geared" F-units. The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, rather angled opposed gears. On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on the u-joint side, one of the open end. They appear to be identical. I need one of those bearings. The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and I have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to go. Dimensions: Outside overall: .220" OD of actual bearing .175" ID of actual bearing .130" Thickness: .100" Anybody have a spare? While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's? I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. Thanks. E-mail me with particulars. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2579	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed

Dave--I'll check my parts bin.  Is it an "Oilite" bearing, sort of hat shaped?  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- geared" F-units. The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, rather angled opposed gears. On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on the u-joint side, one of the open end. They appear to be identical. I need one of those bearings. The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and I have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to go. Dimensions: Outside overall: .220" OD of actual bearing .175" ID of actual bearing .130" Thickness: .100" Anybody have a spare? While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's? I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. Thanks. E-mail me with particulars. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2580	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed

Got a bunch that are close--gimme an address--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- geared" F-units. The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, rather angled opposed gears. On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on the u-joint side, one of the open end. They appear to be identical. I need one of those bearings. The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and I have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to go. Dimensions: Outside overall: .220" OD of actual bearing .175" ID of actual bearing .130" Thickness: .100" Anybody have a spare? While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's? I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. Thanks. E-mail me with particulars. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2581	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed

No, that's the motor bearings. Smaller od and ID. This has two "collars", looks like a piece of channel wrapped around a shaft. Dave > > Dave--I'll check my parts bin. Is it an "Oilite" bearing, sort of hat shaped? gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed > > > For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- > geared" F-units. > The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, > rather angled opposed gears. > On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on the > u-joint side, one of the open end. > They appear to be identical. > I need one of those bearings. > The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and I > have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to go. > > Dimensions: > Outside overall: .220" > OD of actual bearing .175" > ID of actual bearing .130" > Thickness: .100" > > Anybody have a spare? > > While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer > clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's? > > I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, > I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. > > Thanks. > E-mail me with particulars. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2582	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Mannor Gon

Attachments : Attached is a picture of a kit I have, wondering if there are other kits around? The box says they also made other freight cars. Roger Aultman -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2583	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Mannor Gon

Don't recognize the box, but there are a couple of familiar envelopes.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: VINTAGE H-0 Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mannor Gon Attached is a picture of a kit I have, wondering if there are other kits around? The box says they also made other freight cars. Roger Aultman -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2584	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Mannor Gon

Guess the manufacturers cross supplied each other back then also. Roger Glenn Joesten wrote: > Don't recognize the box, but there are a couple of familiar envelopes. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roger Aultman <mailto:raul@...> > To: VINTAGE H-0 <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Mannor Gon > > Attached is a picture of a kit I have, wondering if there are other > kits > around? The box says they also made other freight cars. Roger Aultman > -- > > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm > <http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm> > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2585	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Mannor Gon

Here is a link to a completed auction on ebay for a Manor Pickle Car.    http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-1940s-MANOR-PICKLE-CAR-KIT-HO-WOOD-PARTS_W0QQitemZ280075673756   James Bartelt jimbartelt@... Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079 METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html ----- Original Message ---- From: Roger Aultman <raul@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 5, 2007 8:29:37 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mannor Gon Guess the manufacturers cross supplied each other back then also. Roger Glenn Joesten wrote: > Don't recognize the box, but there are a couple of familiar envelopes. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roger Aultman <mailto:raul@nconnect. net> > To: VINTAGE H-0 <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Mannor Gon > > Attached is a picture of a kit I have, wondering if there are other > kits > around? The box says they also made other freight cars. Roger Aultman > -- > > http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm > < rel=nofollow>http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm> > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/ > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2586	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Fwd: WGH on Tour in Portland, OR -- February 17-18, 2007

Attachments : Note: forwarded message attached. Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2587	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/6/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed

Glenn- I yarded one gearbox apart today, and the bushing on this one is brass, not oillite. There are two collars, one on each end of the shaft. They fit on the main input drive gear shaft, and are visible once you remove the locomotive shell. The collar portion fits on both sides of the upper and lower tower portions, the shaft of the main input gear rides in it. The older straight-cut gearboxes did not have these, ran plastic-on- plastic. Another tidbit, if you have a broken upper case, and you get a replacement that was for the single-cut gears, everything works EXCEPT there is a strengthening rib down the inside of the tower on both sides, on the motor end. I removed them with some ball-end bits I got years ago (used by orthopedic surgeons when they install new joints). Dave > > Dave--I'll check my parts bin. Is it an "Oilite" bearing, sort of hat shaped? gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed > > > For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- > geared" F-units. > The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, > rather angled opposed gears. > On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on the > u-joint side, one of the open end. > They appear to be identical. > I need one of those bearings. > The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and I > have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to go. > > Dimensions: > Outside overall: .220" > OD of actual bearing .175" > ID of actual bearing .130" > Thickness: .100" > > Anybody have a spare? > > While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer > clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's? > > I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, > I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. > > Thanks. > E-mail me with particulars. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2588	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/6/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed

Dave--I mailed several bearings today--see if something will work.  I usually figure if I can get the shaft size right, I can make the rest of it fit.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 4:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: One Athearn part needed Glenn- I yarded one gearbox apart today, and the bushing on this one is brass, not oillite. There are two collars, one on each end of the shaft. They fit on the main input drive gear shaft, and are visible once you remove the locomotive shell. The collar portion fits on both sides of the upper and lower tower portions, the shaft of the main input gear rides in it. The older straight-cut gearboxes did not have these, ran plastic-on- plastic. Another tidbit, if you have a broken upper case, and you get a replacement that was for the single-cut gears, everything works EXCEPT there is a strengthening rib down the inside of the tower on both sides, on the motor end. I removed them with some ball-end bits I got years ago (used by orthopedic surgeons when they install new joints). Dave > > Dave--I'll check my parts bin. Is it an "Oilite" bearing, sort of hat shaped? gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed > > > For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- > geared" F-units. > The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, > rather angled opposed gears. > On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on the > u-joint side, one of the open end. > They appear to be identical. > I need one of those bearings. > The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and I > have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to go. > > Dimensions: > Outside overall: .220" > OD of actual bearing .175" > ID of actual bearing .130" > Thickness: .100" > > Anybody have a spare? > > While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer > clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's? > > I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, > I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. > > Thanks. > E-mail me with particulars. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2589	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/7/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed

And I sent the driveshaft.  I looked at my Athearn parts, and all the ones I have use the same little square bearing that's used in the inside frame trucks.  As far as the coupler clips, I'm running out myself :-(   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Joesten To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: One Athearn part needed Dave--I mailed several bearings today--see if something will work.  I usually figure if I can get the shaft size right, I can make the rest of it fit.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 4:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: One Athearn part needed Glenn- I yarded one gearbox apart today, and the bushing on this one is brass, not oillite. There are two collars, one on each end of the shaft. They fit on the main input drive gear shaft, and are visible once you remove the locomotive shell. The collar portion fits on both sides of the upper and lower tower portions, the shaft of the main input gear rides in it. The older straight-cut gearboxes did not have these, ran plastic-on- plastic. Another tidbit, if you have a broken upper case, and you get a replacement that was for the single-cut gears, everything works EXCEPT there is a strengthening rib down the inside of the tower on both sides, on the motor end. I removed them with some ball-end bits I got years ago (used by orthopedic surgeons when they install new joints). Dave > > Dave--I'll check my parts bin. Is it an "Oilite" bearing, sort of hat shaped? gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed > > > For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- > geared" F-units. > The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, > rather angled opposed gears. > On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on the > u-joint side, one of the open end. > They appear to be identical. > I need one of those bearings. > The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and I > have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to go. > > Dimensions: > Outside overall: .220" > OD of actual bearing .175" > ID of actual bearing .130" > Thickness: .100" > > Anybody have a spare? > > While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer > clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's? > > I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, > I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. > > Thanks. > E-mail me with particulars. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2590	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/7/2007
Subject: Oddball Geep

I made a post a while back about this oddball Geep with the nose VERY wide as compared to the prime-mover hood. 8-wheel drive, Pittman clone on the front block (hence the WIDE nose hood), but didn't know what it was. Got the shell in the latest box of crXp from my brother. UP yellow and gray, with red AT&SF on the hood, same color as the cab number. On the side of the short hood, right above where one would expect the side walkway to be, it says: MARX Never seen one before, I don't think. MARX HO. Hooooooooooooooo-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2591	From: joeandrews1	Date: 2/8/2007
Subject: New member

Hello All, I just discovered this group and I think maybe I'm a legitimate candidate to join. I've been in HO since 1950 (when I was 12) and my first car kit was a metal Athearn Western Fruit Express reefer. My mother thought I was in over my head because of all the trouble I had assembling that kit. There sure were a lot of tiny parts. I still have that car although it's been upgraded with Kadees and better trucks. I was beside myself when Roundhouse advertised a tremendous sale on their all metal car kits. I bought about a dozen and I still have about 9 or 10 unbuilt. I didn't realize that they were disposing of the metal kits to make way for their soon to emerge plastic car kits. My first loco was the Mantua shifter. I also still have it except that it has long ago disintegrated into powder. I don't presently have a layout but I do have about 25 plastic bins loaded with HO equipment. Every once in a while, I pull something out and work on it. The item I pick may be brand new or it may be 57 years old. I'm looking forward to being a member of this group and I hope I can contibute something of value or interest. Joe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2592	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 2/8/2007
Subject: Re: New member

Welcome!!! _________________________________________________________________ From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards� http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2593	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/8/2007
Subject: Re: New member

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "joeandrews1" <joeandrews1@...> wrote: > > Hello All, I just discovered this group and I think maybe I'm a > legitimate candidate to join. I've been in HO since 1950 (when I was > 12) and my first car kit was a metal Athearn Western Fruit Express > reefer. My mother thought I was in over my head because of all the > trouble I had assembling that kit. There sure were a lot of tiny > parts. I still have that car although it's been upgraded with Kadees > and better trucks. I was beside myself when Roundhouse advertised a > tremendous sale on their all metal car kits. I bought about a dozen > and I still have about 9 or 10 unbuilt. I didn't realize that they > were disposing of the metal kits to make way for their soon to emerge > plastic car kits. My first loco was the Mantua shifter. I also still > have it except that it has long ago disintegrated into powder. I don't > presently have a layout but I do have about 25 plastic bins loaded > with HO equipment. Every once in a while, I pull something out and > work on it. The item I pick may be brand new or it may be 57 years > old. I'm looking forward to being a member of this group and I hope I > can contibute something of value or interest. > Joe Welcome aboard Joe! Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2594	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/9/2007
Subject: Re: New member

----- Original Message ----- From: "joeandrews1" <joeandrews1@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 11:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New member > Hello All, I just discovered this group and I think maybe I'm a > legitimate candidate to join. I've been in HO since 1950 (when I was > 12) and my first car kit was a metal Athearn Western Fruit Express > reefer. My mother thought I was in over my head because of all the > trouble I had assembling that kit. There sure were a lot of tiny > parts. I still have that car although it's been upgraded with Kadees > and better trucks. I was beside myself when Roundhouse advertised a > tremendous sale on their all metal car kits. I bought about a dozen > and I still have about 9 or 10 unbuilt. I didn't realize that they > were disposing of the metal kits to make way for their soon to emerge > plastic car kits. My first loco was the Mantua shifter. I also still > have it except that it has long ago disintegrated into powder. I don't > presently have a layout but I do have about 25 plastic bins loaded > with HO equipment. Every once in a while, I pull something out and > work on it. The item I pick may be brand new or it may be 57 years > old. I'm looking forward to being a member of this group and I hope I > can contibute something of value or interest. > Joe Glad to have you with us. I think you'll enjoy it here. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2595	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/9/2007
Subject: Re: New member

HELLO, oops ! There I go yelling again! I think you find  this group a terrific resource to interesting information.   Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "joeandrews1" <joeandrews1@ yahoo.com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 11:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New member > Hello All, I just discovered this group and I think maybe I'm a > legitimate candidate to join. I've been in HO since 1950 (when I was > 12) and my first car kit was a metal Athearn Western Fruit Express > reefer. My mother thought I was in over my head because of all the > trouble I had assembling that kit. There sure were a lot of tiny > parts. I still have that car although it's been upgraded with Kadees > and better trucks. I was beside myself when Roundhouse advertised a > tremendous sale on their all metal car kits. I bought about a dozen > and I still have about 9 or 10 unbuilt. I didn't realize that they > were disposing of the metal kits to make way for their soon to emerge > plastic car kits. My first loco was the Mantua shifter. I also still > have it except that it has long ago disintegrated into powder. I don't > presently have a layout but I do have about 25 plastic bins loaded > with HO equipment. Every once in a while, I pull something out and > work on it. The item I pick may be brand new or it may be 57 years > old. I'm looking forward to being a member of this group and I hope I > can contibute something of value or interest. > Joe Glad to have you with us. I think you'll enjoy it here. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2596	From: Askerberg	Date: 2/9/2007
Subject: Re: New member

Welcome, Joe. Your history in the hobby closely parallels mine. I built my first HO model in May, 1950. It was a Roundhouse (MDC) Pennsy 40' boxcar. I still have that model with its almost matching 410M paint. I have left it just as I assembled it with incomplete removal of the flash. I had replaced the couplers with Kaydees, but I can now replace them with a pair of the Roundhouse auto couplers that came with the kit. That way it will mate nicely with the English A5 Yardbird switcher that was my first loco. I picked up the Yardbird a few years ago at a swap meet. The way it is assembled and decorated leads me to believe it could actually be the very one I had owned originally. I'll never know for sure. It's a pleasant contemplation, however. Nostalgia is fun. Al

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2597	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Attachments : Hello Ken, It seems to me that you may be the Varney Guro, so here is another one for you...  I just purchased this varney brass hudson engine... It does not have a chassis. I have two brass varney chassis from 4-6-2's One sprung and one not. I was wondering if you thought they might work or if I should look elswere... Or, better yet... do know of or have instructions / directions for it? Thanks, Sean Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2598	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

That could come in handy in a fight!  I think that Varney's Pacific and Hudson chassis were the same--so whatever you can find should fit. Or try Bowser.  ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. Hello Ken, It seems to me that you may be the Varney Guro, so here is another one for you...  I just purchased this varney brass hudson engine... It does not have a chassis. I have two brass varney chassis from 4-6-2's One sprung and one not. I was wondering if you thought they might work or if I should look elswere... Or, better yet... do know of or have instructions / directions for it? Thanks, Sean Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2599	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello Ken, > It seems to me that you may be the Varney Guro, so here is another one for you... I just purchased this varney brass hudson engine... It does not have a chassis. I have two brass varney chassis from 4-6-2's One sprung and one not. I was wondering if you thought they might work or if I should look elswere... Or, better yet... do know of or have instructions / directions for it? Thanks, Sean > Hi Sean, & thanks a bunch for the CV instruction sheet! Here are two quotes from Dave Spanagel's "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains" book, pg.54: "Some features(of the Varney #2000K (standard) streamlined 4-6-4 Hudsons with rigid frame) matched Varney's other Economy models, such as the Pittman DC-71 motor and the unsprung U-shaped channel frame borrowed fron the Pacific. The four-wheel pilot truck assembly (1936A) and the simplified unsprung 1792S trailing truck were used, along with scale 72-inch spoked drivers(again from the Pacific)and 1783 valve gear kit with Laird crossheads." Also Mr. Spanagel speaking of the non- streamlined Varney Economy Hudson said: "Like the streamlined version, the U-shaped frame from the Pacific, scale 72-inch drivers, and Pittman DC-71 motor were used." & "The unsprung pilot and trailing trucks, numbers 1936A and 1792S respectively, came with this kit, along with the 1829P valve gear that had been used on the Economy Pacific." So judging from the above two quotes, I'd have to agree with what Glenn posted as a response. Thanx again....Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2600	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hello Ken, > > It seems to me that you may be the Varney Guro, so here is another > one for you... I just purchased this varney brass hudson engine... It > does not have a chassis. I have two brass varney chassis from 4-6- 2's > One sprung and one not. I was wondering if you thought they might work > or if I should look elswere... Or, better yet... do know of or have > instructions / directions for it? Thanks, Sean > > > > > I forgot to mention Sean, that there are some Varney loco diagrams located at: http://www.hoseeker.net under Literature, Varney. Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2601	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

>----- Original Message ----- >From: sean naylor >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 6:39 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. >Hello Ken, >It seems to me that you may be the Varney Guro, so here is another one for >you... I just purchased this varney brass hudson engine... It does not >have a chassis. I <have two brass varney chassis from 4-6-2's One sprung >and one not. I was wondering if you thought they might work or if I should >look elswere... Or, better >yet... do know of or have instructions / >directions for it? Thanks, Sean Others have pretty much answered your question, but FWIW, in my 1947 catalog, there is no kit yet, but your boiler is listed as follows: "Streamlined Pacific. This sleek job is easy. The heavy brass boiler (page 39) is readily adapted to either the Economy pacific or the Super HO-Pacific running gear. The stamped brass skirts are attached to the running board by drive fitted escutcheon pins, filed flush. The "nose" amd pilot may be altered to conform to your favorite prototype. If you worship the Iron Horse and want to pull Streamliners, this is your meat. No complete kit available at this time." Two different versions (sprung and unsprung) of the 4 wheel trailing truck to convert either Pacific into a Hudson are also shown in the same catalog. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2602	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest

Remember to vote in our new cover photo contest now. For the month of February, we have an open poll for all the members to vote on the photo of their choice in the "a contest" album. The winner will be the new cover photo for at least till mid summer.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2603	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest

Attachments : Please count my vote for; Walthers Baltic MILW locomotive. Don L. Leistikow

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2604	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest

Votes are not counted from email, you need to go to the group polls page to cast your vote. This SHOULD take you right to the poll. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/surveys?id=2140175 If not, go the group home page and click on "polls", then click on the poll you want to vote in. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: <DLeistikow@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest > Please count my vote for; Walthers Baltic MILW locomotive. > > Don L. Leistikow

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2605	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest

Don, I think I voted... I hit "vote" and the page just blinked and looked the same... Did not go anywhere else...???? I hit it a couple of times... hope it took.... Sean   Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Votes are not counted from email, you need to go to the group polls page to cast your vote. This SHOULD take you right to the poll. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ surveys?id= 2140175 If not, go the group home page and click on "polls", then click on the poll you want to vote in. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: <DLeistikow@webtv. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest > Please count my vote for; Walthers Baltic MILW locomotive. > > Don L. Leistikow Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2606	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest

Your vote should have counted.  I DO see a couple more cast than there were an hour ago.  If you're used to polls that show the results, this one is set to not show the results until the poll is closed which is why it acted the way it did.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest Don, I think I voted... I hit "vote" and the page just blinked and looked the same... Did not go anywhere else...???? I hit it a couple of times... hope it took.... Sean   Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Votes are not counted from email, you need to go to the group polls page to cast your vote. This SHOULD take you right to the poll. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ surveys?id= 2140175 If not, go the group home page and click on "polls", then click on the poll you want to vote in. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: <DLeistikow@webtv. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest > Please count my vote for; Walthers Baltic MILW locomotive. > > Don L. Leistikow Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2607	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/12/2007
Subject: New Stuff

Attachments : This past Saturday was the Greater Houston Train Show, sponsored by the San Jacinto Model Railroad Club. I found a few nice old items that convinced me to part with some hard-earned cash. The first photo shows an Ambroid 25th Anniversary 2-in-One kit for a Milwaukee Composite Gondola and a N&W Hopper car. You can see in the photo that the gondola has been started and the previous owner has done a very nice job on the bottom and sides to this point. Looking at the pieces left in the box I'm not sure that everything is there to build the hopper car, but the full decal sheet is still there. I only paid $2 for it as is so it was well worth it. I have a few other copies of this kit and one or two of them are partially built also. The second photo is of a Main Line Models SP wood boxcar. This one has not been started yet, so I get the fun of doing the whole thing. Unfortunately, as you might be able to make out in the photo, the rubber bands deteriorated or melted and stuck to the roof and bottom pieces. I hope I can clean it up sufficiently so that the paint goes on evenly. Maybe a coat of sanding sealer first (I never use it). The third and fourth photos show a real oddball. It's a kit for a 1915 Model "T" Rail Truck. The instruction sheet says it's by Distinctive Scale Models in Lincoln, NE. It says the inspiration was an article by Sherman T. Dance in the January, 1963 MR. This looks like one of those home-brew and sold kits. That fourth photo shows the exploded plans from one of the pages. There's not much to the kit, but it looked intriguing and does include the motor. The metal parts for the gearbox and front truck have not been bent to shape yet, so that's going to be a real challenge to get it right and true. I paid $10 each for this one and the SP boxcar. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ "The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which failed to start because of the following error: The operation completed successfully." -Windows NT Server v3.51

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2608	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/12/2007
Subject: Prices

I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun. I perused various shops, including antique with the wife. I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color (probably due to moist storage), $27.50. I offerred $20 for parts. Nope. Antique. Worth a bundle. I walked. Found some AHM artics in Tillamook. The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!" I was uncharacteristically nice, explained they were older, yes, HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many zeroes. The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and handed them to her. Asked her to read the address. She did, almost all of it. I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that. I told her 1963. Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963. She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat. Hopefully not anyone on this forum........ Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine? Lordhavemercy. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2609	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 2/12/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if he did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it that's his falt.  Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is out of line.   curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun. I perused various shops, including antique with the wife. I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color (probably due to moist storage), $27.50. I offerred $20 for parts. Nope. Antique. Worth a bundle. I walked. Found some AHM artics in Tillamook. The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!" I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes, HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many zeroes. The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and handed them to her. Asked her to read the address. She did, almost all of it. I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that. I told her 1963. Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963. She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat. Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... . Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine? Lordhavemercy. Dave No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2610	From: Don RIley	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

Reads like you found some junk!!! That old Athearn engine is worth nothing! I have a bunch of those early Athearn engines around here. I have at least one of every veriation of F7 or GP7 offered. Yes there weere more then a few of um! I have um in assorted conditions. But most are fairly close to mint. And at this point I would only buy one that is VERY close to mint. Box is not required. But if anything is not there I do not want it! Well handrails are no big deal. But aside from that. And yes I have several I operate. Included is one of thsoe old SP GP7s with red lettering instead of white! Never have figured out what was up with the red letters. I think I have two of um but I can not seem to find the other. BTW back to handrails. Man Athearn really blew um!! I mean gad! Those things are CRAP!!! I long ago stoped even trying to install um because they break and come apart. Uprights even come apart! They are only bent to make the eye for the top rail. I know I can still get um for GP7s. Will the GP35 set work on a GP30? I ask because I have in the box GP30s that I would like to add a handrail set to the box just to make it comeplete. Was thinking about getting GP35 rails. And while I do own an Athearn GP35 I can not seem to find it. Yeah I got boxes of trains. They are from a big layout I used to have. Had to take it apart when we moved. No room for it anymore. So the fleet is boxed up. Have a small layout I run but no need for the huge fleet I once ran. So most of um stay boxed. As for the other cars. Well not sure what to say. Yeah I too have been quoted silly prices. Yeah they kept there models. As for the Riv steamer. Well either she got fooled or was just trying to fool you. Good catch on the zip code! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun. > I perused various shops, including antique with the wife. > I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the > brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers > were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half > the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color > (probably due to moist storage), $27.50. > > I offerred $20 for parts. > Nope. > Antique. Worth a bundle. > I walked. > > Found some AHM artics in Tillamook. > The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!" > > I was uncharacteristically nice, explained they were older, yes, > HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he > claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many > zeroes. > > The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and > handed them to her. > Asked her to read the address. > She did, almost all of it. > I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that. > I told her 1963. > Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963. > > She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat. > > Hopefully not anyone on this forum........ > Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine? > > Lordhavemercy. > > Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2611	From: Don RIley	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

Yeah I hear you there!! But remember it happened at an antique store! They are bad for riping people off! They cater to people with FAT wallets and small brains. Or those who really do not know what is what. BTW one of my other hobbies is Chevy Celebrities. They were a mid sized car made in the 80's. At least one of you here probably either has one now or did have one in the past. They are nice roomy cars. And they will last forever! I got one in October of last year for a mere $300. Granted the registration was a mess but still not a bad price for a running car! I mention this because when ever I think of paying $500 for an HO scale model I think of buying cars cheaper! Oh btw if any of the rest of you happen to have one of those cars there are two yahoogroups for um. Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...> wrote: > > It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if he did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it that's his falt. Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is out of line.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2612	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

Dear Group,   Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it came from a pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if one wishes to be fancy in the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now.   I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time has passed us anyway.  A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how many times has it been repeated-even in brass? It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at $9.99...please. Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola that is supposed to be of the "Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big scale.   Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101.  It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally fraudulent and should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over and make it into a private roadname with my blessing.   I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for "extinct" some day?   Some pieces are underated...and have historic (to prototype) value. It takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be valued and are worth a collector's consideration, but at what price? Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades. If so...they are, to my thinking, junk. They bear witness to an older technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to whether one is building a private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along the track behind power or be the power itself. Control nostalgia-do not let it control your pocketbook.   John      Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2613	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Manor car kits

Attachments : A couple days ago Roger was asking about "Manor" car kits. I'm not familiar with them, but while perusing a copy of the October 1946 Model Railroader this morning while doing my morning "duties" <G>, I did come across this ad. Please forgive the bad copy, my scanner has decided it doesn't want to work any more, so I had to do it photographically. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2614	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: New Stuff

Some nice finds, I wouldn't mind any one of them. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New Stuff > This past Saturday was the Greater Houston Train Show, sponsored by > the San Jacinto Model Railroad Club. I found a few nice old items that > convinced me to part with some hard-earned cash. > The first photo shows an Ambroid 25th Anniversary 2-in-One kit for a > Milwaukee Composite Gondola and a N&W Hopper car. You can see in the > photo that the gondola has been started and the previous owner has done > a very nice job on the bottom and sides to this point. Looking at the > pieces left in the box I'm not sure that everything is there to build > the hopper car, but the full decal sheet is still there. I only paid $2 > for it as is so it was well worth it. I have a few other copies of this > kit and one or two of them are partially built also. > The second photo is of a Main Line Models SP wood boxcar. This one > has not been started yet, so I get the fun of doing the whole thing. > Unfortunately, as you might be able to make out in the photo, the rubber > bands deteriorated or melted and stuck to the roof and bottom pieces. I > hope I can clean it up sufficiently so that the paint goes on evenly. > Maybe a coat of sanding sealer first (I never use it). > The third and fourth photos show a real oddball. It's a kit for a > 1915 Model "T" Rail Truck. The instruction sheet says it's by > Distinctive Scale Models in Lincoln, NE. It says the inspiration was an > article by Sherman T. Dance in the January, 1963 MR. This looks like one > of those home-brew and sold kits. That fourth photo shows the exploded > plans from one of the pages. There's not much to the kit, but it looked > intriguing and does include the motor. The metal parts for the gearbox > and front truck have not been bent to shape yet, so that's going to be a > real challenge to get it right and true. I paid $10 each for this one > and the SP boxcar. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ > > "The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which > failed to start because of the following error: The operation completed > successfully." > -Windows NT Server v3.51 > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2615	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

>----- Original Message ----- >From: John Barlow >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 3:24 AM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" >Dear Group, >Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out >there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it >came from a >pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know >that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if >one wishes to be fancy in >the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now. >I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly >cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time >has passed us >anyway. A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how >many times has it been repeated-even in brass? >It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap >shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at >$9.99...please. >Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess >again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola >that is supposed to be of the >"Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A >of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big >scale. >Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101. >It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally >fraudulent and >should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA >Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over >and make it into a private >roadname with my blessing. >I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for >"extinct" some day? >Some pieces are underated...and have historic (to prototype) value. It >takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be >valued and are >worth a collector's consideration, but at what price? >Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades. >If so...they are, to my thinking, >junk. They bear witness to an older >technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once >rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to >whether one is building a >private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along >the track behind power or be the power itself. Control >nostalgia-do not >let it control your pocketbook. >John I think you miss the point a bit of what this group is about. We never claim that the old products were "state of the art". Surely there are more prototypical models out today, with greater detail for less effort (other than writing the check to pay the Visa Card bill), but if prototypical accuarcy and having the latest state of the art models running on your layout is your thing, then this is probably not the group to follow. However, a BIG part of what we're about IS nostalgia, nostalgia for the days when one actually BUILT a model railroad instead of buying it, when one could take a kit and add the detail parts one wanted, when one could take pride in the fact that "I built that", not "look how high the credit limit is on my Visa". Anyway, if I want a "shorty" Penn Line GG-1 painted New Haven, then by golly I'll FIND a Penn Line shorty GG-1 painted New Haven <G>. I DO agree that there IS a LOT of junk out there at vastly inflated prices. I also feel that this group does a very good job of educating the members what to watch out for, and I think we all have a good idea of what these things are really worth in the open market. What a particular piece is worth to an individual is totally dependent on that individual. One man's junk is another man's treasure. If a model has value to you for sentimental reasons, then that's what it's worth to you. There is a lot of vintage out there at reasonable prices (I bought a third Varney Virginian hopper yeaterday on eBay, ninety nine cents!) You just have to look for it. I don't think anyone here thinks they're going to be able to retire on the proceeds of their collection. This group is NOT for the "collector" who buys things to sit on the shelf and appreciate in value. This group is for people who just love those old trains from their youth, and still enjoy running them on their layout. Look through my various photos in my albums on the group's home page. EVERY piece of rolling stock there RUNS on my layout, and the only reason it may sit on a shelf is because I have to regularly cycle cars off the layout because I have about twice as many as the layout will hold. I may also point out, that in all those freight cars, there's only ONE that I paid more than $10 for. (The Thomas wine car, $20). As far as quality, I will say that there is a lot of vintage that IS better than the made in China stuff that dominates today's market. Sure, that latest plastic locomotive has great detail, but if you actually OPERATE it chances are in few years half those flimsy plastic parts will have broken off. That's assuming the locomotive will even RUN after a few years, and when it DOES stop running, have fun getting parts. I have an Athearn bodied Hobbytown GP-7 that's 50 years old that still runs fine. (and FWIW I paid $25 for it, less than it sold for new). I recently paid abother list member $100 for a BRASS Fairbanks Morse Erie, that's less than the price of the new Walthers/Lifelike one, and it will probably still be running long after all the plastic ones have been consigned to the scrap heap. On my layout Mantua cars from the 1940's lock couplers with P-2K cars of today, and you know something? When they're passing by in a train you can't tell which is which! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2616	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Prices >I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun. > I perused various shops, including antique with the wife. > I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the > brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers > were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half > the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color > (probably due to moist storage), $27.50. > > I offerred $20 for parts. > Nope. > Antique. Worth a bundle. > I walked. Actually at $20 you'd be doing her a favor. The last "antique" Athearn Geep I bought was on a HOBBYTOWN chassis, everything there, in the original GN colors with the extra striping. $25 in a HOBBY SHOP! > > Found some AHM artics in Tillamook. > The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!" > > I was uncharacteristically nice, explained they were older, yes, > HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he > claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many > zeroes. > > The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and > handed them to her. > Asked her to read the address. > She did, almost all of it. > I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that. > I told her 1963. > Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963. > > She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat. > > Hopefully not anyone on this forum........ > Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine? > > Lordhavemercy. > > Dave Is that any worse than people asking $200 for Botchman? Unfortunately people do pay this kind of money, which makes it harder on us. I do think most of us here are smarter than that though <G>. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2617	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

I suppose it is all in the eye of the beholder. One mans junk is another mans treasure. Just because "you" don't like it doesn't mean I can't. I am not a rivet or window counter.I do not sit around worrying about how something purchased by the Southern Pacific varied from one built for the Pensy. I happen to be collecting older Athearn. Yes I am aware that some (all?) of it is not prototypical. I happen to like the old rubber band drive so I collect that. I love to watch them race around my oval at 200mph. I particularly like the fantasy New Haven snow bird scheme, so I have 3 ABA sets and growing.  I also like the tricolor RDC jobs, so I have some of those. Sure Hustlers are not real likely to be found but I colllect those too. I am also into the Athearn metal RDC cars. I only have a few, but if they are within my budget at the moment I buy them as I find them. Same with Athearn metal cranes. I have 4 nice ones and more that are not as good, and so it goes.   Bottom line: I just like having the stuff.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Dear Group,   Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it came from a pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if one wishes to be fancy in the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now.   I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time has passed us anyway.  A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how many times has it been repeated-even in brass? It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at $9.99...please. Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola that is supposed to be of the "Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big scale.   Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101.  It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally fraudulent and should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over and make it into a private roadname with my blessing.   I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for "extinct" some day?   Some pieces are underated...and have historic (to prototype) value. It takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be valued and are worth a collector's consideration, but at what price? Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades. If so...they are, to my thinking, junk. They bear witness to an older technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to whether one is building a private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along the track behind power or be the power itself. Control nostalgia-do not let it control your pocketbook.   John      Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2618	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Prices

>Is that any worse than people asking $200 for Botchman? Unfortunately >people do pay this kind of money, which makes it harder on us. I do think >most of us here are smarter than that though <G>. You mean the $200 for Botchman wasn't a deal???? :-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your Live.com page. http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2619	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Prices

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: > > >Is that any worse than people asking $200 for Botchman? Unfortunately > >people do pay this kind of money, which makes it harder on us. I do think > >most of us here are smarter than that though <G>. > > You mean the $200 for Botchman wasn't a deal???? :-) > > Loren Oh, it's one heckuva deal......for the seller! Not too sure about the sellee though. Now, if it was a Toyco... John Hagen > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your > Live.com page. > http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2620	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

If I may, I would just like to add... as far as I am concerned.. There is something completly different for me in the felling I get about a piece when it is old,heavy, made of die-cast metal, brass or wood or any combination of the three... or if I hold a piece which is hot off the die and made of plastic.. It never weighs as much... I always fear breaking it. If by chance the motor goes and gets too hot, if only for a minute... The shell is shot. Sure, I am as into authentic detail as the next guy and being a collector / modeler of the New Haven Line I do have pieces in my collection that New haven NEVER had. (However I refuse to go as far as having a NH GG-1. ) Sure the detail on the newer plastic engines is nice, but store that proto engine for a little while, with the plastic handrails, pull it out after a few years... I bet it will run, but those handrails will look like the engine rolled over several times before coming to rest back on the rails... not ot mention the cracking and fading the plastic likes to do... Besides... I prefer the hand built... such as my pride: the six old hand built poultry cars in my collection... plastic has nothing on them, with their mix of wood, metal, brass and cloth details. Nothing like holding the real thing, that still even looks close enough to the real thing! ...and I am only 36... Most of the stuff I own is at least 10 - 20 years my Senior! Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: John Barlow >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 3:24 AM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" >Dear Group, >Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out >there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it >came from a >pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know >that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if >one wishes to be fancy in >the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now. >I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly >cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time >has passed us >anyway. A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how >many times has it been repeated-even in brass? >It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap >shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at >$9.99...please. >Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess >again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola >that is supposed to be of the >"Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A >of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big >scale. >Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101. >It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally >fraudulent and >should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA >Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over >and make it into a private >roadname with my blessing. >I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for >"extinct" some day? >Some pieces are underated... and have historic (to prototype) value. It >takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be >valued and are >worth a collector's consideration, but at what price? >Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades. >If so...they are, to my thinking, >junk. They bear witness to an older >technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once >rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to >whether one is building a >private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along >the track behind power or be the power itself. Control >nostalgia-do not >let it control your pocketbook. >John I think you miss the point a bit of what this group is about. We never claim that the old products were "state of the art". Surely there are more prototypical models out today, with greater detail for less effort (other than writing the check to pay the Visa Card bill), but if prototypical accuarcy and having the latest state of the art models running on your layout is your thing, then this is probably not the group to follow. However, a BIG part of what we're about IS nostalgia, nostalgia for the days when one actually BUILT a model railroad instead of buying it, when one could take a kit and add the detail parts one wanted, when one could take pride in the fact that "I built that", not "look how high the credit limit is on my Visa". Anyway, if I want a "shorty" Penn Line GG-1 painted New Haven, then by golly I'll FIND a Penn Line shorty GG-1 painted New Haven <G>. I DO agree that there IS a LOT of junk out there at vastly inflated prices. I also feel that this group does a very good job of educating the members what to watch out for, and I think we all have a good idea of what these things are really worth in the open market. What a particular piece is worth to an individual is totally dependent on that individual. One man's junk is another man's treasure. If a model has value to you for sentimental reasons, then that's what it's worth to you. There is a lot of vintage out there at reasonable prices (I bought a third Varney Virginian hopper yeaterday on eBay, ninety nine cents!) You just have to look for it. I don't think anyone here thinks they're going to be able to retire on the proceeds of their collection. This group is NOT for the "collector" who buys things to sit on the shelf and appreciate in value. This group is for people who just love those old trains from their youth, and still enjoy running them on their layout. Look through my various photos in my albums on the group's home page. EVERY piece of rolling stock there RUNS on my layout, and the only reason it may sit on a shelf is because I have to regularly cycle cars off the layout because I have about twice as many as the layout will hold. I may also point out, that in all those freight cars, there's only ONE that I paid more than $10 for. (The Thomas wine car, $20). As far as quality, I will say that there is a lot of vintage that IS better than the made in China stuff that dominates today's market. Sure, that latest plastic locomotive has great detail, but if you actually OPERATE it chances are in few years half those flimsy plastic parts will have broken off. That's assuming the locomotive will even RUN after a few years, and when it DOES stop running, have fun getting parts. I have an Athearn bodied Hobbytown GP-7 that's 50 years old that still runs fine. (and FWIW I paid $25 for it, less than it sold for new). I recently paid abother list member $100 for a BRASS Fairbanks Morse Erie, that's less than the price of the new Walthers/Lifelike one, and it will probably still be running long after all the plastic ones have been consigned to the scrap heap. On my layout Mantua cars from the 1940's lock couplers with P-2K cars of today, and you know something? When they're passing by in a train you can't tell which is which! Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2621	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Manor car kits

That was a good find Don, sure do not see those kits often. Roger Don Dellmann wrote: > A couple days ago Roger was asking about "Manor" car kits. I'm not familiar > with them, but while perusing a copy of the October 1946 Model Railroader > this morning while doing my morning "duties" <G>, I did come across this ad. > > Please forgive the bad copy, my scanner has decided it doesn't want to work > any more, so I had to do it photographically. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2622	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

Attachments : Hello Wobbly, Speaking og the Snow Birds... Heck! they were not even F7's New haven not only did not have F'7's, the closest thing they had to that paint scheme, that I have found thus far is their Daniel Webster... Which I have attaches to this message... I have a box full of the Snow Birds myself... It was the first engine I ever owned... Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: I suppose it is all in the eye of the beholder. One mans junk is another mans treasure. Just because "you" don't like it doesn't mean I can't. I am not a rivet or window counter.I do not sit around worrying about how something purchased by the Southern Pacific varied from one built for the Pensy. I happen to be collecting older Athearn. Yes I am aware that some (all?) of it is not prototypical. I happen to like the old rubber band drive so I collect that. I love to watch them race around my oval at 200mph. I particularly like the fantasy New Haven snow bird scheme, so I have 3 ABA sets and growing.  I also like the tricolor RDC jobs, so I have some of those. Sure Hustlers are not real likely to be found but I colllect those too. I am also into the Athearn metal RDC cars. I only have a few, but if they are within my budget at the moment I buy them as I find them. Same with Athearn metal cranes. I have 4 nice ones and more that are not as good, and so it goes.   Bottom line: I just like having the stuff.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Group,   Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it came from a pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if one wishes to be fancy in the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now.   I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time has passed us anyway.  A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how many times has it been repeated-even in brass? It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at $9.99...please. Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola that is supposed to be of the "Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big scale.   Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101.  It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally fraudulent and should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over and make it into a private roadname with my blessing.   I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for "extinct" some day?   Some pieces are underated... and have historic (to prototype) value. It takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be valued and are worth a collector's consideration, but at what price? Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades. If so...they are, to my thinking, junk. They bear witness to an older technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to whether one is building a private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along the track behind power or be the power itself. Control nostalgia-do not let it control your pocketbook.   John      Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2623	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

The most I ever paid for a personal vehicle (not the wife's car, but mine) was $350. That was about 18 years ago, a 50 Pickup, still driving it. My 50 Ford Tudor, paid $125 in 1970, still driving it. The 49 Willys, paid $20, still here...... > > Yeah I hear you there!! But remember it happened at an antique store! > They are bad for riping people off! They cater to people with FAT > wallets and small brains. Or those who really do not know what is > what. > > BTW one of my other hobbies is Chevy Celebrities. They were a mid > sized car made in the 80's. At least one of you here probably either > has one now or did have one in the past. They are nice roomy cars. > And they will last forever! I got one in October of last year for a > mere $300. Granted the registration was a mess but still not a bad > price for a running car! I mention this because when ever I think of > paying $500 for an HO scale model I think of buying cars cheaper! Oh > btw if any of the rest of you happen to have one of those cars there > are two yahoogroups for um. > > Steamengine4449 > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@> > wrote: > > > > It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if he > did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it > that's his falt. Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is > out of line. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2624	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

I paid $15 for my first running callifornia car 69 Mustang coupe in 1995. Two years later, I paid $1300 for a bare metal 69 Mustang Fastback shell (didn't even have a plastic wiring harness clip, fenders, doors, glass or anything on it). Needless to say, I am still putting it together.. It will be on the road within 2 years...!   I purchased a 1946 GMC panel Truck in 1986 for $1500 Sold it in 2000 for $1000   Sean  curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: The most I ever paid for a personal vehicle (not the wife's car, but mine) was $350. That was about 18 years ago, a 50 Pickup, still driving it. My 50 Ford Tudor, paid $125 in 1970, still driving it. The 49 Willys, paid $20, still here...... > > Yeah I hear you there!! But remember it happened at an antique store! > They are bad for riping people off! They cater to people with FAT > wallets and small brains. Or those who really do not know what is > what. > > BTW one of my other hobbies is Chevy Celebrities. They were a mid > sized car made in the 80's. At least one of you here probably either > has one now or did have one in the past. They are nice roomy cars. > And they will last forever! I got one in October of last year for a > mere $300. Granted the registration was a mess but still not a bad > price for a running car! I mention this because when ever I think of > paying $500 for an HO scale model I think of buying cars cheaper! Oh > btw if any of the rest of you happen to have one of those cars there > are two yahoogroups for um. > > Steamengine4449 > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@ > > wrote: > > > > It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if he > did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it > that's his falt. Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is > out of line. > Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2625	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

Hi Sean Thanks for the picture of the Daniel Webster. I always wondered where the idea for the snow bird paint scheme came from. NH did not have F7's? I thought all of the major railroads had them at one time or another.  Doesn't matter though, I still like my snow birds and run them from time to time. I have to keep them run or the rubber bands stick to the drive rods and drums.   Wobbly913     sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hello Wobbly, Speaking og the Snow Birds... Heck! they were not even F7's New haven not only did not have F'7's, the closest thing they had to that paint scheme, that I have found thus far is their Daniel Webster... Which I have attaches to this message... I have a box full of the Snow Birds myself... It was the first engine I ever owned... Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: I suppose it is all in the eye of the beholder. One mans junk is another mans treasure. Just because "you" don't like it doesn't mean I can't. I am not a rivet or window counter.I do not sit around worrying about how something purchased by the Southern Pacific varied from one built for the Pensy. I happen to be collecting older Athearn. Yes I am aware that some (all?) of it is not prototypical. I happen to like the old rubber band drive so I collect that. I love to watch them race around my oval at 200mph. I particularly like the fantasy New Haven snow bird scheme, so I have 3 ABA sets and growing.  I also like the tricolor RDC jobs, so I have some of those. Sure Hustlers are not real likely to be found but I colllect those too. I am also into the Athearn metal RDC cars. I only have a few, but if they are within my budget at the moment I buy them as I find them. Same with Athearn metal cranes. I have 4 nice ones and more that are not as good, and so it goes.   Bottom line: I just like having the stuff.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Group,   Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it came from a pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if one wishes to be fancy in the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now.   I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time has passed us anyway.  A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how many times has it been repeated-even in brass? It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at $9.99...please. Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola that is supposed to be of the "Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big scale.   Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101.  It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally fraudulent and should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over and make it into a private roadname with my blessing.   I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for "extinct" some day?   Some pieces are underated... and have historic (to prototype) value. It takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be valued and are worth a collector's consideration, but at what price? Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades. If so...they are, to my thinking, junk. They bear witness to an older technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to whether one is building a private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along the track behind power or be the power itself. Control nostalgia-do not let it control your pocketbook.   John      Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2626	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

Typo... I paid $150 for the Coupe... sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: I paid $15 for my first running callifornia car 69 Mustang coupe in 1995. Two years later, I paid $1300 for a bare metal 69 Mustang Fastback shell (didn't even have a plastic wiring harness clip, fenders, doors, glass or anything on it). Needless to say, I am still putting it together.. It will be on the road within 2 years...!   I purchased a 1946 GMC panel Truck in 1986 for $1500 Sold it in 2000 for $1000   Sean  curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: The most I ever paid for a personal vehicle (not the wife's car, but mine) was $350. That was about 18 years ago, a 50 Pickup, still driving it. My 50 Ford Tudor, paid $125 in 1970, still driving it. The 49 Willys, paid $20, still here...... > > Yeah I hear you there!! But remember it happened at an antique store! > They are bad for riping people off! They cater to people with FAT > wallets and small brains. Or those who really do not know what is > what. > > BTW one of my other hobbies is Chevy Celebrities. They were a mid > sized car made in the 80's. At least one of you here probably either > has one now or did have one in the past. They are nice roomy cars. > And they will last forever! I got one in October of last year for a > mere $300. Granted the registration was a mess but still not a bad > price for a running car! I mention this because when ever I think of > paying $500 for an HO scale model I think of buying cars cheaper! Oh > btw if any of the rest of you happen to have one of those cars there > are two yahoogroups for um. > > Steamengine4449 > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@ > > wrote: > > > > It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if he > did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it > that's his falt. Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is > out of line. > Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2627	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

That's what happens when you buy a General Misunderstanding. You know how those got named, right? In the 20's, General Misunderstanding made trucks. No name, just trucks. One day this guy was driving along in his Model "T" and came across one at the side of the road with the hood panels up, so he stopped and asked if the driver needed help. "No, but thanks anyway. Gotta Mechanic Coming" But, with over 500K on the clock and 300K on the last motor, the $125 investment in the 50 Ford Tudor has really paid off. $15,000 is minimum value......... Dave > > Typo... I paid $150 for the Coupe... > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: I paid $15 for my first running callifornia car 69 Mustang coupe in 1995. Two years later, I paid $1300 for a bare metal 69 Mustang Fastback shell (didn't even have a plastic wiring harness clip, fenders, doors, glass or anything on it). Needless to say, I am still putting it together.. It will be on the road within 2 years...! > > I purchased a 1946 GMC panel Truck in 1986 for $1500 > Sold it in 2000 for $1000 > > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > The most I ever paid for a personal vehicle (not the wife's car, but > mine) was $350. > That was about 18 years ago, a 50 Pickup, still driving it. > My 50 Ford Tudor, paid $125 in 1970, still driving it. > The 49 Willys, paid $20, still here...... > > > > > Yeah I hear you there!! But remember it happened at an antique > store! > > They are bad for riping people off! They cater to people with FAT > > wallets and small brains. Or those who really do not know what is > > what. > > > > BTW one of my other hobbies is Chevy Celebrities. They were a mid > > sized car made in the 80's. At least one of you here probably > either > > has one now or did have one in the past. They are nice roomy cars. > > And they will last forever! I got one in October of last year for > a > > mere $300. Granted the registration was a mess but still not a bad > > price for a running car! I mention this because when ever I think > of > > paying $500 for an HO scale model I think of buying cars cheaper! > Oh > > btw if any of the rest of you happen to have one of those cars > there > > are two yahoogroups for um. > > > > Steamengine4449 > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@> > > wrote: > > > > > > It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if > he > > did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it > > that's his falt. Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is > > out of line. > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss an email again! > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2628	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

Attachments : I know all too well about the bands... They actually had FL-9's which had a 4 wheel truck in front and a six wheel truck in the rear. The only way to get one is pay $300+ for a brass one or kitbash one from an atlass GP-35 & 2 atlas FP7's     Currently, I opt for the latter... Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: Hi Sean Thanks for the picture of the Daniel Webster. I always wondered where the idea for the snow bird paint scheme came from. NH did not have F7's? I thought all of the major railroads had them at one time or another.  Doesn't matter though, I still like my snow birds and run them from time to time. I have to keep them run or the rubber bands stick to the drive rods and drums.   Wobbly913       Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2629	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that very magazine that you copied had an article by Al Kamm on building one out of Athearn F-7 shells.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" I know all too well about the bands... They actually had FL-9's which had a 4 wheel truck in front and a six wheel truck in the rear. The only way to get one is pay $300+ for a brass one or kitbash one from an atlass GP-35 & 2 atlas FP7's     Currently, I opt for the latter... Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2630	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Fwd: THIS WEEKEND!!! -- WGH on Tour in Portland, OR

Attachments : Note: forwarded message attached. Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2631	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

Don, Yes, they used Athearn F7's, but after talking to a guy whom I traded a small bag of brass detail pieces for a Penn Central version he built, he explained how it would be easier to start from the FP7... Small things, like the grill along the top of the sides is closer to the FP's and the small louvered grills between the windows are rotated 90 degrees onthe F7's and correct on the FP7's as well as several other small details... He also said it was easier to hide the joints using the FPs. I like the version I have from him... I ran into him at the show two weeks ago and told him we need to work another deal... (Last week was a different show). Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that very magazine that you copied had an article by Al Kamm on building one out of Athearn F-7 shells.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" I know all too well about the bands... They actually had FL-9's which had a 4 wheel truck in front and a six wheel truck in the rear. The only way to get one is pay $300+ for a brass one or kitbash one from an atlass GP-35 & 2 atlas FP7's     Currently, I opt for the latter... Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote:   Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2632	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: New Finds

Attachments : I tried to send this last night but haven't yet seen it show up in my mail so I'm trying again. This past Saturday was the Greater Houston Train Show, sponsored by the San Jacinto Model Railroad Club. I found a few nice old items that convinced me to part with some hard-earned cash. The first photo shows an Ambroid 25th Anniversary 2-in-One kit for a Milwaukee Composite Gondola and a N&W Hopper car. You can see in the photo that the gondola has been started and the previous owner has done a very nice job on the bottom and sides to this point. Looking at the pieces left in the box I'm not sure that everything is there to build the hopper car, but the full decal sheet is still there. I only paid $2 for it as is so it was well worth it. I have a few other copies of this kit and one or two of them are partially built also. The second photo is of a Main Line Models SP wood boxcar. This one has not been started yet, so I get the fun of doing the whole thing. Unfortunately, as you might be able to make out in the photo, the rubber bands deteriorated or melted and stuck to the roof and bottom pieces. I hope I can clean it up sufficiently so that the paint goes on evenly. Maybe a coat of sanding sealer first (I never use it). The third and fourth photos show a real oddball. It's a kit for a 1915 Model "T" Rail Truck. The instruction sheet says it's by Distinctive Scale Models in Lincoln, NE. It says the inspiration was an article by Sherman T. Dance in the January, 1963 MR. This looks like one of those home-brew and sold kits. That fourth photo shows the exploded plans from one of the pages. There's not much to the kit, but it looked intriguing and does include the motor. The metal parts for the gearbox and front truck have not been bent to shape yet, so that's going to be a real challenge to get it right and true. I paid $10 each for this one and the SP boxcar. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ High blood pressure sufferers: simply cut yourself and bleed for a while, thus reducing the pressure in your veins.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2633	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

There's a problem--there seems to be a belief out there that if it is a train and is old, it's worth at least a bundle. Perhaps a bundle and a half.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Prices I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun. I perused various shops, including antique with the wife. I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color (probably due to moist storage), $27.50. I offerred $20 for parts. Nope. Antique. Worth a bundle. I walked. Found some AHM artics in Tillamook. The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!" I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes, HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many zeroes. The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and handed them to her. Asked her to read the address. She did, almost all of it. I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that. I told her 1963. Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963. She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat. Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... . Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine? Lordhavemercy. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2634	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

The SP with red lettering--someone must have seen some of the weathering that took place on some units--the white came off and for some reason there was red under it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Don RIley To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:14 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Prices Reads like you found some junk!!! That old Athearn engine is worth nothing! I have a bunch of those early Athearn engines around here. I have at least one of every veriation of F7 or GP7 offered. Yes there weere more then a few of um! I have um in assorted conditions. But most are fairly close to mint. And at this point I would only buy one that is VERY close to mint. Box is not required. But if anything is not there I do not want it! Well handrails are no big deal. But aside from that. And yes I have several I operate. Included is one of thsoe old SP GP7s with red lettering instead of white! Never have figured out what was up with the red letters. I think I have two of um but I can not seem to find the other. BTW back to handrails. Man Athearn really blew um!! I mean gad! Those things are CRAP!!! I long ago stoped even trying to install um because they break and come apart. Uprights even come apart! They are only bent to make the eye for the top rail. I know I can still get um for GP7s. Will the GP35 set work on a GP30? I ask because I have in the box GP30s that I would like to add a handrail set to the box just to make it comeplete. Was thinking about getting GP35 rails. And while I do own an Athearn GP35 I can not seem to find it. Yeah I got boxes of trains. They are from a big layout I used to have. Had to take it apart when we moved. No room for it anymore. So the fleet is boxed up. Have a small layout I run but no need for the huge fleet I once ran. So most of um stay boxed. As for the other cars. Well not sure what to say. Yeah I too have been quoted silly prices. Yeah they kept there models. As for the Riv steamer. Well either she got fooled or was just trying to fool you. Good catch on the zip code! Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > > I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun. > I perused various shops, including antique with the wife. > I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the > brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers > were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half > the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color > (probably due to moist storage), $27.50. > > I offerred $20 for parts. > Nope. > Antique. Worth a bundle. > I walked. > > Found some AHM artics in Tillamook. > The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!" > > I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes, > HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he > claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many > zeroes. > > The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and > handed them to her. > Asked her to read the address. > She did, almost all of it. > I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that. > I told her 1963. > Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963. > > She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat. > > Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... . > Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine? > > Lordhavemercy. > > Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2635	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" Not So New Haven F

Branford Hobbies in Branford Conn, had... or, still has... resin bodies for an FL9. They had a chassis for it as well, using Athearn drive parts. I have never seen one, so I can't attest to the quality. They also had resin shells for DL 109s and EP5s, also with frames that accepted Athearn drive parts. ConnDot had a four axle F unit painted in the McGinnis scheme. So there was a sort of prototype similar to the Revell F unit. You can probably find pictures of it on the Fallen Flags website.     -----Original Message----- From: a69mustang4me@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" Don, Yes, they used Athearn F7's, but after talking to a guy whom I traded a small bag of brass detail pieces for a Penn Central version he built, he explained how it would be easier to start from the FP7... Small things, like the grill along the top of the sides is closer to the FP's and the small louvered grills between the windows are rotated 90 degrees onthe F7's and correct on the FP7's as well as several other small details... He also said it was easier to hide the joints using the FPs. I like the version I have from him... I ran into him at the show two weeks ago and told him we need to work another deal... (Last week was a different show). Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that very magazine that you copied had an article by Al Kamm on building one out of Athearn F-7 shells.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" I know all too well about the bands... They actually had FL-9's which had a 4 wheel truck in front and a six wheel truck in the rear. The only way to get one is pay $300+ for a brass one or kitbash one from an atlass GP-35 & 2 atlas FP7's     Currently, I opt for the latter... Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote:   Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2636	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

Dear Glenn,   Put short and sweet...I agree. We can attribute the mentality to a host of things...the antique craze, the Greenberg publications, the Brown Book (on brass), etc., etc. Somebody finds something in Grampa's house...whoopie! They see one of the publications, try to match it up...but if it isn't in there-go to eBay. The problem is...what is in that "bundle"? Some folks get a rude surprise. The bundle's contents can be used in that old prank at Halloween by setting the bag on fire on somebody's step and ringing the doorbell.   John Barlow  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: There's a problem--there seems to be a belief out there that if it is a train and is old, it's worth at least a bundle. Perhaps a bundle and a half.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Prices I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun. I perused various shops, including antique with the wife. I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color (probably due to moist storage), $27.50. I offerred $20 for parts. Nope. Antique. Worth a bundle. I walked. Found some AHM artics in Tillamook. The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!" I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes, HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many zeroes. The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and handed them to her. Asked her to read the address. She did, almost all of it. I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that. I told her 1963. Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963. She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat. Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... . Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine? Lordhavemercy. Dave Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2637	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

As a matter of fact(like it or not) the "worth" or value of just about any thing is what some one is willing to pay for it. True value doesn't have that much to do with it. Just got to hold out for the right sucker. And if you have enough traffic thru your antique store you may well find the one you need...it only takes one.   Wobbly913 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: There's a problem--there seems to be a belief out there that if it is a train and is old, it's worth at least a bundle. Perhaps a bundle and a half.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Prices I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun. I perused various shops, including antique with the wife. I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color (probably due to moist storage), $27.50. I offerred $20 for parts. Nope. Antique. Worth a bundle. I walked. Found some AHM artics in Tillamook. The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!" I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes, HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many zeroes. The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and handed them to her. Asked her to read the address. She did, almost all of it. I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that. I told her 1963. Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963. She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat. Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... . Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine? Lordhavemercy. Dave Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2638	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Branford Hobbies New Haven Units

Branford no longer offers the custom painting services. I know because I asked. I have one of their HH660's, unpainted kits I picked up on ebay for $103. I called there to see about having it painted and that is how I found out. He said he was not always happy with the quality of the paint jobs. The guy there was surprised to hear I picked up the HH660 on ebay and I found out he sells the same units for $99 + tax and shipping. I imagine they still have DL-109's. I saw one Branford FL9 painted in the McGinnis on eBay and it went for almost $300. As for the DL 109s.. I think I have two..one green and one cranberry... both from branford.. pretty nice pieces... Never saw the ConnDot F unit and I have even been to the wbsite several times... either way... for me, it was conndot and not New haven...although I do own a E60cp (duel cabs and pantographs - McGinnis) and one E60cf (one cab and pantograph - all black), each in the new haven schemes... Only ever saw the E60cf one time and I picked it up for about $20 on eBay. If it had been labeled right, I bet it would have gone over $100. Besides, on a good day, that is the going rate for the E60cp. Hell, I have paid $50 - $75 for a athearn PA-1 painted in the New Haven line, several times now.. I think at last count I had about 25... Maybe four with the same number and none of those are in the same paint scheme.. Not bad for luck... MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: Branford Hobbies in Branford Conn, had... or, still has... resin bodies for an FL9. They had a chassis for it as well, using Athearn drive parts. I have never seen one, so I can't attest to the quality. They also had resin shells for DL 109s and EP5s, also with frames that accepted Athearn drive parts. ConnDot had a four axle F unit painted in the McGinnis scheme. So there was a sort of prototype similar to the Revell F unit. You can probably find pictures of it on the Fallen Flags website.     -----Original Message----- From: a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" Don, Yes, they used Athearn F7's, but after talking to a guy whom I traded a small bag of brass detail pieces for a Penn Central version he built, he explained how it would be easier to start from the FP7... Small things, like the grill along the top of the sides is closer to the FP's and the small louvered grills between the windows are rotated 90 degrees onthe F7's and correct on the FP7's as well as several other small details... He also said it was easier to hide the joints using the FPs. I like the version I have from him... I ran into him at the show two weeks ago and told him we need to work another deal... (Last week was a different show). Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that very magazine that you copied had an article by Al Kamm on building one out of Athearn F-7 shells.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" I know all too well about the bands... They actually had FL-9's which had a 4 wheel truck in front and a six wheel truck in the rear. The only way to get one is pay $300+ for a brass one or kitbash one from an atlass GP-35 & 2 atlas FP7's     Currently, I opt for the latter... Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote:   Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2639	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: trains

Hi Guys:  I got is  out friends house 2-8-0. Who   Make  this "Chattanooga ".                                        Ray L Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2640	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: TRAINS

Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.   I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.   I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.   I was alaway interested in World War II.   I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput,Fleischmann and   Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.     America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail.com   I am free-lance.    IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army   Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.   I got 47 locomotives,     freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's      I live in Gladstone,OR.                                              Ray Lorts Sr   I was  USAF 1971- 1976..                                                                                                                                                                   The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2641	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: trains

You talking about that old Tyco thing?   John Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...> wrote: Hi Guys:  I got is  out friends house 2-8-0. Who   Make  this "Chattanooga ".                                        Ray L Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2642	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: trains

Probably as stated, a TYCO. Tender drive, diesel block, if I recall. The locmotive is a dummy, just pushed along. Problematical, usually, no parts. Some folks have good luck with them, most don't. Dave > > Hi Guys: I got is out friends house 2-8-0. Who Make this "Chattanooga ". > > > Ray L > > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2643	From: Don RIley	Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

WOW!! That is a cool collection of old cars! Got pics of um? Steamengine4449 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > The most I ever paid for a personal vehicle (not the wife's car, but > mine) was $350. > That was about 18 years ago, a 50 Pickup, still driving it. > My 50 Ford Tudor, paid $125 in 1970, still driving it. > The 49 Willys, paid $20, still here......

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2644	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

The Vietnam War had many slogans or mottos attached with various units. One was the "Wild Weasels" anti-surface-to-air missile killer unit: "Y-T-G-S-M." Need I translate? "You-Got-To-Be-Sh---ing-Me!" That's how I felt when I broused an antique store in West Denver/Lakewood one afternoon and spied what was obviously not an antique. It was a fairly modern narrow book shelf case and I noted the pressboard showing where a chunk was missing in an upper corner on the back. Price: $80.00 I smiled to myself. The young clerk came over and told me what a collector's prize it was. I said nothing but left. I drove down to the Office Mart a few blocks away and there it was-on display-new-unscarred-for $39.95. Need I say more?   John Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: As a matter of fact(like it or not) the "worth" or value of just about any thing is what some one is willing to pay for it. True value doesn't have that much to do with it. Just got to hold out for the right sucker. And if you have enough traffic thru your antique store you may well find the one you need...it only takes one.   Wobbly913 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: There's a problem--there seems to be a belief out there that if it is a train and is old, it's worth at least a bundle. Perhaps a bundle and a half.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Prices I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun. I perused various shops, including antique with the wife. I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color (probably due to moist storage), $27.50. I offerred $20 for parts. Nope. Antique. Worth a bundle. I walked. Found some AHM artics in Tillamook. The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!" I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes, HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many zeroes. The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and handed them to her. Asked her to read the address. She did, almost all of it. I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that. I told her 1963. Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963. She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat. Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... . Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine? Lordhavemercy. Dave Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2645	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

John, that is classic antique rip off. Let's see now, what was that old saying? Oh yeah. "Buyer Beware." And, boy, it really applies with any kind of antique or vintage buying, cars, furniture, MODEL TRAINS, teeth, etc..... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > The Vietnam War had many slogans or mottos attached with various units. One was the "Wild Weasels" anti-surface-to-air missile killer unit: "Y-T-G-S-M." Need I translate? "You-Got-To-Be-Sh---ing-Me!" That's how I felt when I broused an antique store in West Denver/Lakewood one afternoon and spied what was obviously not an antique. It was a fairly modern narrow book shelf case and I noted the pressboard showing where a chunk was missing in an upper corner on the back. Price: $80.00 I smiled to myself. The young clerk came over and told me what a collector's prize it was. I said nothing but left. I drove down to the Office Mart a few blocks away and there it was-on display-new-unscarred-for $39.95. Need I say more? > > John

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2646	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

John,   Vintage teeth? I better not ask further.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: John, that is classic antique rip off. Let's see now, what was that old saying? Oh yeah. "Buyer Beware." And, boy, it really applies with any kind of antique or vintage buying, cars, furniture, MODEL TRAINS, teeth, etc..... --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > > The Vietnam War had many slogans or mottos attached with various units. One was the "Wild Weasels" anti-surface- to-air missile killer unit: "Y-T-G-S-M." Need I translate? "You-Got-To- Be-Sh---ing- Me!" That's how I felt when I broused an antique store in West Denver/Lakewood one afternoon and spied what was obviously not an antique. It was a fairly modern narrow book shelf case and I noted the pressboard showing where a chunk was missing in an upper corner on the back. Price: $80.00 I smiled to myself. The young clerk came over and told me what a collector's prize it was. I said nothing but left. I drove down to the Office Mart a few blocks away and there it was-on display-new- unscarred- for $39.95. Need I say more? > > John TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2647	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

You were not the sucker they are looking for. But over time someone else may yet buy that piece and the the store will have found the one sucker they seek. It only takes the one.   Wobbly913 John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: The Vietnam War had many slogans or mottos attached with various units. One was the "Wild Weasels" anti-surface-to-air missile killer unit: "Y-T-G-S-M." Need I translate? "You-Got-To-Be-Sh---ing-Me!" That's how I felt when I broused an antique store in West Denver/Lakewood one afternoon and spied what was obviously not an antique. It was a fairly modern narrow book shelf case and I noted the pressboard showing where a chunk was missing in an upper corner on the back. Price: $80.00 I smiled to myself. The young clerk came over and told me what a collector's prize it was. I said nothing but left. I drove down to the Office Mart a few blocks away and there it was-on display-new-unscarred-for $39.95. Need I say more?   John Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2648	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

Oh John, Come on, go ahead and ask the question. We are all curious now about the "Vintage Teeth" now anyway. Are these like wooden or from old railroaders, famous people or what????? :-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2649	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices

My late friend from the G&D group, Allan Fenton and I were the two guys in the Monterey area who people knew about trains".  So often after someone died the widow or other relatives would call us, usually thinking we were collectors who would buy out the whole works.  First thing was to point out to them what they had.If tinplate, we knew a couple of better people to help liquidate things. For the scale stuff, the best we could do was the quarterly auctions at Coast Division, PCR/NMRA.  I think I have described these before.  We could usually get a hundred lot cards for an estate sale, compared to a usual limit of 25.  So we had to bundle things.  We recognized what might have some value, and the low-end stuff.  Cars like MDC  and Athearn metal, Varney, Mantua, Silver Streak, etc might see several fighting over them, where the old Life Like, Bachmann, Tyco, et al might not get a bid.  A lot of these old guys had a lot of the latter--bought up sets on sale--  So we'd use a lot of beer/soda case flats.  Put one "Good item" in with a dozen cheapies.  Then it would be up to the buyer to get rid of the excess. We often suggested they use some to get a neighbor kid started. But this way we would get the family the best we could get.    Now, of course, this would get us first crack at the goodies, and our group got second.  We had rules of thumb to find prices--usually based on the mail-order prices in the current MR.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Prices Dear Glenn,   Put short and sweet...I agree. We can attribute the mentality to a host of things...the antique craze, the Greenberg publications, the Brown Book (on brass), etc., etc. Somebody finds something in Grampa's house...whoopie! They see one of the publications, try to match it up...but if it isn't in there-go to eBay. The problem is...what is in that "bundle"? Some folks get a rude surprise. The bundle's contents can be used in that old prank at Halloween by setting the bag on fire on somebody's step and ringing the doorbell.   John Barlow  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: There's a problem--there seems to be a belief out there that if it is a train and is old, it's worth at least a bundle. Perhaps a bundle and a half.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Prices I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun. I perused various shops, including antique with the wife. I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color (probably due to moist storage), $27.50. I offerred $20 for parts. Nope. Antique. Worth a bundle. I walked. Found some AHM artics in Tillamook. The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!" I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes, HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many zeroes. The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and handed them to her. Asked her to read the address. She did, almost all of it. I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that. I told her 1963. Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963. She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat. Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... . Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine? Lordhavemercy. Dave Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2650	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS

The "Chattanooga" is Tyco.   Where is Gladstone?  I'm in Yreka, CA.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Lorts Sr To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] TRAINS Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.   I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.   I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.   I was alaway interested in World War II.   I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput, Fleischmann and   Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.     America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail. com   I am free-lance.    IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army   Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.   I got 47 locomotives,     freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's      I live in Gladstone,OR.                                              Ray Lorts Sr   I was  USAF 1971- 1976..                                                                                                                                                                   The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2651	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Hey Guys! I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have 7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further modification... Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2652	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Check the Bowser ho,e page. I believe they have what you're looking for, When you ghet there, look at Arbor Models replacement parts, see if they have the trailing truck for their Allegheny(2-6-6-6) loco. Perhaps a pics would help you decide if it would work.   That's the only one out there thatI know of.   Good luck!   yours   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hey Guys! I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have 7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further modification... Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2653	From: bitlerisvj	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Hobbytown Of Boston

Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts. I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this. For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called: http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/ With text of: e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns Policies. ... The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon. To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again? Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2654	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston

Vic, Unfortunately, the fact that the website is unavailable is NOT good news. This site has been around for awhile and was readily accessible. Sadly, it appears to me that Bear is no longer in the Hobbytown business. Hopefully someone will pick up the ashes. Someone wanna make a call to Bowser? John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in > the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts. > I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this. > For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of > Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called: > http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/ > With text of: > e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and > Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns > Policies. ... > The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon. > To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am > wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again? > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2655	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston

No, this is a NEW site, unless I am missing something. The old site was named: bearlocomo.zoovy.com/ So, I am expecting (hoping for) good news. If you notice, the new site blurb shows a 2007 Copyright. We haven't been in 2007 long enough yet for that to be old. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Of Boston Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:16:06 -0000 Vic, Unfortunately, the fact that the website is unavailable is NOT good news. This site has been around for awhile and was readily accessible. Sadly, it appears to me that Bear is no longer in the Hobbytown business. Hopefully someone will pick up the ashes. Someone wanna make a call to Bowser? John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in > the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts. > I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this. > For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of > Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called: > http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/ > With text of: > e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and > Drives. Copyright �� 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns > Policies. ... > The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon. > To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am > wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again? > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris > _________________________________________________________________ Valentine�s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2656	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston

Well, I done missed the 2007 on it. I do hope you are right. Hobbytown has been around for a long time and was always a high quality product. Their drives put the new stuff to shame when it comes to durability plus they run beautifully. The only major upgrade made over the years was the switch to can type motors, which only served to make them even better. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2657	From: Mark DeGroat	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston

Hi Guys, I got an email on 1/26 from bearbon that said the new site is under construction and should be available in two weeks so I keep checking every day. The old site was my wishbook. I too need some parts.Hobby town parts on E bay seem to have gone up.Desperate for Christmas money I sold a beautiful later version RS-3 Hobbytown on E Bay and only got 1 bid 29.95 . Boy am I sick now. Have a great day Mark Victor Bitleris wrote: > No, this is a NEW site, unless I am missing something. The old site was > named: > bearlocomo.zoovy.com/ > So, I am expecting (hoping for) good news. > If you notice, the new site blurb shows a 2007 Copyright. We haven't been > in 2007 long enough yet for that to be old. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Of Boston > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:16:06 -0000 > > Vic, > > Unfortunately, the fact that the website is unavailable is NOT good > news. This site has been around for awhile and was readily > accessible. Sadly, it appears to me that Bear is no longer in the > Hobbytown business. Hopefully someone will pick up the ashes. Someone > wanna make a call to Bowser? > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > > Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in > > the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts. > > I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this. > > For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of > > Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called: > > http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/ > > With text of: > > e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and > > Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns > > Policies. ... > > The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon. > > To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am > > wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again? > > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Valentine’s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping > http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2658	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston

I hope I am right also. I do believe in the power of positive thinking. Currently I have 4 Hobbytown units, but only one is on the layout. It is a Varney NW-2 switcher that I remotored with a can motor and put in a decoder. It has very good low speed characteristics. It still has brass wheels that are probably 30 years old, but they seem to do just fine for me. I have a Varney F3, with a new style Hobbytown chassis that came with a can motor. This guy runs very well, but he needs superdetailing and a decoder. The other 2 are the RS-3 and RSD-5 engines. Someone put in a very nice Tan Can (Mashima) motor in it, but the bearings were extremely sticky. I am in the process of cleaning it out. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Of Boston Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:07:37 -0600 Well, I done missed the 2007 on it. I do hope you are right. Hobbytown has been around for a long time and was always a high quality product. Their drives put the new stuff to shame when it comes to durability plus they run beautifully. The only major upgrade made over the years was the switch to can type motors, which only served to make them even better. John Hagen _________________________________________________________________ From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards� http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2659	From: pvande1@comcast.net	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston

Attachments : Vic, What are the parts you need? Also, what's the vintage of the RSD-5 you're trying to restore? Also, where's the Repower Regear site? I would recommend that that best way to save Hobbytown is for everyone to buy a kit on an annual basis at least. It might be too late for that however. phil -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> > Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in > the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts. > I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this. > For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of > Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called: > http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/ > With text of: > e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and > Drives. Copyright �� 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns > Policies. ... > The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon. > To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am > wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again? > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2660	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS

Hi; I South of Portland,Oregon. Thank You all. Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: The "Chattanooga" is Tyco.   Where is Gladstone?  I'm in Yreka, CA.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Lorts Sr To: vintageho@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] TRAINS Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.   I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.   I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.   I was alaway interested in World War II.   I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput, Fleischmann and   Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.     America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail. com   I am free-lance.    IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army   Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.   I got 47 locomotives,     freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's      I live in Gladstone,OR.                                              Ray Lorts Sr   I was  USAF 1971- 1976..                                                                                                                                                                   The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2661	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement--the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC? ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? Hey Guys! I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have 7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2662	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Test

Just trying to figure out why my two posts with photos of some things I bought last weekend haven't shown up. I can see both of them by going to the web site but they never came through in my e-mail. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2663	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS

a bit too far to be much help to you--thought it might be in the Rogue Valley  area  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Lorts Sr To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] TRAINS Hi; I South of Portland,Oregon. Thank You all. Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: The "Chattanooga" is Tyco.   Where is Gladstone?  I'm in Yreka, CA.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Lorts Sr To: vintageho@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] TRAINS Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.   I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.   I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.   I was alaway interested in World War II.   I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput, Fleischmann and   Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.     America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail. com   I am free-lance.    IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army   Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.   I got 47 locomotives,     freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's      I live in Gladstone,OR.                                              Ray Lorts Sr   I was  USAF 1971- 1976..                                                                                                                                                                   The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2664	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston

Vic-I have done business with these folks for years.  The present owner was a very good friend of the previous owner-so knows the business well.  Every time I have requested parts, they seem to get them from “the deep black hole”-even for 50 year old stuff.  So try again; it may take a phone call so they can ask questions (the various F3- 7’s, E-7’s and RS-3’s have gone thru a few changes over the years-but they seem to dig up the necessary parts.  And if you need the Cary bodies to go with them, check with Bowser-who still has many of them.  Good luck!  JerryG.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of bitlerisvj Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Of Boston   Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts. I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this. For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called: http://www.hobbytow nofboston. com/ With text of: e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston ' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns Policies. ... The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon. To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again? Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2665	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Test

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Test > Just trying to figure out why my two posts with photos of some > things I bought last weekend haven't shown up. I can see both of them by > going to the web site but they never came through in my e-mail. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ > > Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else. We saw them. I assume you're set for "daily emails"? If you're in digest mode the pictures won'y show. The other thing I notice is you're an SBC-Yahoo customer. Check the "bulk" folder on your personal email web page. I've found that often Yahoo's spam filter will put posts in my bulk folder if I'm shown as the original sender, even though it came through the group. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2666	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Hey Glen, The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today and found nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea what that is... Thanks, Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement- -the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC? ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? Hey Guys! I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have 7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2667	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Athearn dismal parts needed

Need some final bits to get "completed" on these Athearn F-7's. For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- geared" F-units. The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, rather angled opposed gears. One input shaft bearing, part number 90579. Dimensions: Outside overall: .220" OD of actual bearing .175" ID of actual bearing .130" Thickness: .100" This is a dual-collar bearing, flange on each end. I've tried to make one, close, but I'm afraid heat will expand it and lock it. I need two long front couplers for the either Hi-F or dummy "A", part number 90607. These are the ones with the coil spring that fit into a box that screws to the mount. I have the boxes, springs and screws. Just need the two. Also, I have a nice "B" unit shell (to go with the Hi-F "A" I just finished), have the trucks, but look as we might, we have no frame. No idea what happened to it. ANY "A" unit Hi-F frame (with the peg or the screw bolster) will work, as this will be a dummy. Anybody have a cheap spare in the junk bin? I have the short couplers and boxes for it. And, I need ONE coupler cover clip, 90602, the spring-steel one. I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. AND, a pair of "standard" F-7 weights (not the Super-Geared full weight) part number 90711. I have weights in the tower drive "A", but the tower-drive "B", well, they went the same place that frame went. Let me know, and I can get these diseasemals back to my brother and try to get my eyesight back. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2668	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed

I have a spare HiF f7 frame, the earlier peg style. If you want it simply send me your mailing address and I will send it on its way. Unfortunately I don't have any of the rest of your parts need, in fact I could use some of them myself as I have more than one F unit without couplers.  I plan to ultimately fit them with KD's.   Wobbly913   curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Need some final bits to get "completed" on these Athearn F-7's. For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- geared" F-units. The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, rather angled opposed gears. One input shaft bearing, part number 90579. Dimensions: Outside overall: .220" OD of actual bearing .175" ID of actual bearing .130" Thickness: .100" This is a dual-collar bearing, flange on each end. I've tried to make one, close, but I'm afraid heat will expand it and lock it. I need two long front couplers for the either Hi-F or dummy "A", part number 90607. These are the ones with the coil spring that fit into a box that screws to the mount. I have the boxes, springs and screws. Just need the two. Also, I have a nice "B" unit shell (to go with the Hi-F "A" I just finished), have the trucks, but look as we might, we have no frame. No idea what happened to it. ANY "A" unit Hi-F frame (with the peg or the screw bolster) will work, as this will be a dummy. Anybody have a cheap spare in the junk bin? I have the short couplers and boxes for it. And, I need ONE coupler cover clip, 90602, the spring-steel one. I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. AND, a pair of "standard" F-7 weights (not the Super-Geared full weight) part number 90711. I have weights in the tower drive "A", but the tower-drive "B", well, they went the same place that frame went. Let me know, and I can get these diseasemals back to my brother and try to get my eyesight back. Thanks. Dave Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2669	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston

There's still hope........ I just found this cached page........ [This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.bearlocomotive.com/ as retrieved on Jan 19, 2007 23:56:56 GMT ] http://tinyurl.com/396phc Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 15, 2007, at 11:16 AM, John Hagen wrote: > Vic, > > Unfortunately, the fact that the website is unavailable is NOT good > news. This site has been around for awhile and was readily > accessible. Sadly, it appears to me that Bear is no longer in the > Hobbytown business. Hopefully someone will pick up the ashes. Someone > wanna make a call to Bowser? > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: >> >> Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in >> the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts. >> I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this. >> For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of >> Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called: >> http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/ >> With text of: >> e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and >> Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns >> Policies. ... >> The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open >> soon. >> To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am >> wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again? >> Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2670	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston

Clicking that link ultimately got me to:   The Bear Locomotive / hobbytown of Boston web site is being moved. A new web page is currently under construction. When the new page is ready all inquiries will be redirected to the new site.   Wobbly913 Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: There's still hope........ I just found this cached page........ [This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.bearlocomotive.com/ as retrieved on Jan 19, 2007 23:56:56 GMT ] http://tinyurl.com/396phc Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 15, 2007, at 11:16 AM, John Hagen wrote: > Vic, > > Unfortunately, the fact that the website is unavailable is NOT good > news. This site has been around for awhile and was readily > accessible. Sadly, it appears to me that Bear is no longer in the > Hobbytown business. Hopefully someone will pick up the ashes. Someone > wanna make a call to Bowser? > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" wrote: >> >> Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in >> the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts. >> I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this. >> For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of >> Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called: >> http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/ >> With text of: >> e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and >> Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns >> Policies. ... >> The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open >> soon. >> To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am >> wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again? >> Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2671	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

>----- Original Message ----- >From: sean naylor >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:38 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does >anyone have one? >Hey Glen, >The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser >shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today >and found >nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea >what that is... >Thanks, Sean PSC is Precision Scale, successors to the old "Kemtron" line. Arbor Models / Master Creations did offer the 6 wheel Allegheny truck at one time. When it was available the Walthers catalog number was 136-511 Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2672	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Sean:  PSC is Precision Scale Co. in Victor , Montana ; 406-642-3901.  They do  all sorts of cast brass superdetail parts, and some in plastic.  I have their brand new catalog, and no 6 wheel trailing trucks are shown.  The 4 wheel ones are 5’ or 5’-6” wheelbase, which is pretty typical of Northerns and the like.  HOWEVER, they do show a 4-wheeler, B&M type, which appears to be longer; it does not have a wheelbase listed.  Catalog # is PSHO32536.  It has a funky long spring between the two sets of axles.  It is $15.00.   You may want to call them and check the overall length; it may do in a pinch.  JerryG.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:39 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?   Hey Glen, The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today and found nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea what that is... Thanks, Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement- -the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC? ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?   Hey Guys! I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have 7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean     Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2673	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Thanks, Jerry... Maybe this is why the original owner never finished it... I will find one... If I have to sell my first born, I will!   (;P)   Sean Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...> wrote: Sean:  PSC is Precision Scale Co. in Victor , Montana ; 406-642-3901.  They do  all sorts of cast brass superdetail parts, and some in plastic.  I have their brand new catalog, and no 6 wheel trailing trucks are shown.  The 4 wheel ones are 5’ or 5’-6” wheelbase, which is pretty typical of Northerns and the like.  HOWEVER, they do show a 4-wheeler, B&M type, which appears to be longer; it does not have a wheelbase listed.  Catalog # is PSHO32536.  It has a funky long spring between the two sets of axles.  It is $15.00.   You may want to call them and check the overall length; it may do in a pinch.  JerryG. From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:39 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? Hey Glen, The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today and found nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea what that is... Thanks, Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement- -the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC? ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? Hey Guys! I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have 7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean   Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2674	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Attachments : Sean N: Ask the manufacturer if the dies are still available... would they consider running this product for you. I doesn't cost to ask.... Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2675	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Jerry... Maybe this is why the original owner never finished it... I will find one... If I have to sell my first born, I will! What a guy, willing to sell his son to get a six wheel trailing truck. I'd probably sell the Mustang first, but that's me.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2676	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

PSC is Precision Scale Co.  THE biggest manufacturer of lost was detail parts. They do a lot of parts for the brass importers.    Precision Scale Co. 2383 Meridian Rd. Victor, MT 59875  (406) 642-3901 www.precisionscaleco.com   They have several catalogs--there is so much stuff. You will want the HO Steam Loco Parts catalog. I'd bet they have one--gj   ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? Hey Glen, The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today and found nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea what that is... Thanks, Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement- -the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC? ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? Hey Guys! I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have 7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2677	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed

Just a historical note here,  I think that the early Athearn plastic cars and the Globe F-7 inadvertently set what is now the "standard" coupler mount for HO.  Just a simple die cast dummy coupler with a ring shank that fit over a post, that allowed swing without droop.   MDC and Devore had the shank that later became the Kadee #4. gj   ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn dismal parts needed I have a spare HiF f7 frame, the earlier peg style. If you want it simply send me your mailing address and I will send it on its way. Unfortunately I don't have any of the rest of your parts need, in fact I could use some of them myself as I have more than one F unit without couplers.  I plan to ultimately fit them with KD's.   Wobbly913   curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Need some final bits to get "completed" on these Athearn F-7's. For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- geared" F-units. The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, rather angled opposed gears. One input shaft bearing, part number 90579. Dimensions: Outside overall: .220" OD of actual bearing .175" ID of actual bearing .130" Thickness: .100" This is a dual-collar bearing, flange on each end. I've tried to make one, close, but I'm afraid heat will expand it and lock it. I need two long front couplers for the either Hi-F or dummy "A", part number 90607. These are the ones with the coil spring that fit into a box that screws to the mount. I have the boxes, springs and screws. Just need the two. Also, I have a nice "B" unit shell (to go with the Hi-F "A" I just finished), have the trucks, but look as we might, we have no frame. No idea what happened to it. ANY "A" unit Hi-F frame (with the peg or the screw bolster) will work, as this will be a dummy. Anybody have a cheap spare in the junk bin? I have the short couplers and boxes for it. And, I need ONE coupler cover clip, 90602, the spring-steel one. I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. AND, a pair of "standard" F-7 weights (not the Super-Geared full weight) part number 90711. I have weights in the tower drive "A", but the tower-drive "B", well, they went the same place that frame went. Let me know, and I can get these diseasemals back to my brother and try to get my eyesight back. Thanks. Dave Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2678	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed

Thanks for the info. I am mostly interested in couplers for the HiF frames, I will look at Kadee #4 for those. I have a bunch of the old plastic frame models but most came with the die cast dummy coupler and I simply leave those...they will mate with Kadee with little effort, but are so light that they pull very poorly.   Wobbly913 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: Just a historical note here,  I think that the early Athearn plastic cars and the Globe F-7 inadvertently set what is now the "standard" coupler mount for HO.  Just a simple die cast dummy coupler with a ring shank that fit over a post, that allowed swing without droop.   MDC and Devore had the shank that later became the Kadee #4. gj   ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn dismal parts needed I have a spare HiF f7 frame, the earlier peg style. If you want it simply send me your mailing address and I will send it on its way. Unfortunately I don't have any of the rest of your parts need, in fact I could use some of them myself as I have more than one F unit without couplers.  I plan to ultimately fit them with KD's.   Wobbly913   curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Need some final bits to get "completed" on these Athearn F-7's. For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super- geared" F-units. The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut, rather angled opposed gears. One input shaft bearing, part number 90579. Dimensions: Outside overall: .220" OD of actual bearing .175" ID of actual bearing .130" Thickness: .100" This is a dual-collar bearing, flange on each end. I've tried to make one, close, but I'm afraid heat will expand it and lock it. I need two long front couplers for the either Hi-F or dummy "A", part number 90607. These are the ones with the coil spring that fit into a box that screws to the mount. I have the boxes, springs and screws. Just need the two. Also, I have a nice "B" unit shell (to go with the Hi-F "A" I just finished), have the trucks, but look as we might, we have no frame. No idea what happened to it. ANY "A" unit Hi-F frame (with the peg or the screw bolster) will work, as this will be a dummy. Anybody have a cheap spare in the junk bin? I have the short couplers and boxes for it. And, I need ONE coupler cover clip, 90602, the spring-steel one. I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock. AND, a pair of "standard" F-7 weights (not the Super-Geared full weight) part number 90711. I have weights in the tower drive "A", but the tower-drive "B", well, they went the same place that frame went. Let me know, and I can get these diseasemals back to my brother and try to get my eyesight back. Thanks. Dave Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2679	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Doesanyone have one?

one prerequisite for that--the manufacturer has to still be in business--  You might try whoever is importing the Rivarossi line--I think they make (made) an Allegheny. ----- Original Message ----- From: DLeistikow@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 1:30 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Doesanyone have one? Sean N: Ask the manufacturer if the dies are still available... would they consider running this product for you. I doesn't cost to ask.... Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2680	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

I have two girls... Besides... my wife would kill me.... then sell the Mustang... and all my trains... John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Thanks, Jerry... Maybe this is why the original owner never finished it... I will find one... If I have to sell my first born, I will! What a guy, willing to sell his son to get a six wheel trailing truck. I'd probably sell the Mustang first, but that's me. Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2681	From: Rick	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: OT: Posting

Three times this week I have tried to post a message to the list and it never came back to me in e-mail. The first two attempts were about some items I acquired last weekend and included photos. The third attempt was just a test message. All three messages show up when looking at messages on the Yahoo web site, they just aren't coming through the e-mail with everybody else's postings. I'm writing this at the web site rather than e-mailing it to see if this is more successful. Any ideas why my messages are getting blocked from the e-mails? Rick Jones

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2682	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Sean:  Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.   Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.   Mike Looney

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2683	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Hey Mike,   Thanks, I think however, I am going to avoid Rivarossi at all costs... No plastic on my model... I never imagined it would be so difficult to find one, however...   I think I may have to build on of my own... I have a couple brass trailing trucks I can play with. I would not mind eventually getting an Arbor Models engine eventually.   Thanks..   Sean "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote: Sean:  Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.   Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.   Mike Looney Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2684	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Hey Mike,   Thanks, I think however, I am going to avoid Rivarossi at all costs... No plastic on my model... I never imagined it would be so difficult to find one, however...   I think I may have to build on of my own... I have a couple brass trailing trucks I can play with. I would not mind eventually getting an Arbor Models engine eventually.   Thanks..   Sean "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote: Sean:  Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.   Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.   Mike Looney Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2685	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Hey Mike,   Thanks, I think however, I am going to avoid Rivarossi at all costs... No plastic on my model... I never imagined it would be so difficult to find one, however...   I think I may have to build on of my own... I have a couple brass trailing trucks I can play with. I would not mind eventually getting an Arbor Models engine eventually.   Thanks..   Sean "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote: Sean:  Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.   Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.   Mike Looney Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2686	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Sorry about the three replies... I kept getting an error message when I tried to send it...   Sean "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote: Sean:  Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.   Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.   Mike Looney Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2687	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Thanks Glenn Se3an Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: PSC is Precision Scale Co.  THE biggest manufacturer of lost was detail parts. They do a lot of parts for the brass importers.    Precision Scale Co. 2383 Meridian Rd. Victor, MT 59875  (406) 642-3901 www.precisionscalec o.com   They have several catalogs--there is so much stuff. You will want the HO Steam Loco Parts catalog. I'd bet they have one--gj   ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? Hey Glen, The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today and found nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea what that is... Thanks, Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement- -the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC? ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? Hey Guys! I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have 7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2688	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: OT: Posting

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] OT: Posting > Three times this week I have tried to post a message to the list > and it never came back to me in e-mail. The first two attempts were > about some items I acquired last weekend and included photos. The > third attempt was just a test message. > All three messages show up when looking at messages on the Yahoo > web site, they just aren't coming through the e-mail with everybody > else's postings. I'm writing this at the web site rather than > e-mailing it to see if this is more successful. > Any ideas why my messages are getting blocked from the e-mails? > > Rick Jones Did you see my reply to your test? From your SBC home page, click on email, and look in your "bulk" folder. I'll bet you'll find your message there, open it, then click the "not spam" button on the top of the page, that will automatically move your message to your "in box" folder. I often find that SBC-Yahoo's "spam guard plus", while the best filter out there (IMHO), will sometimes put my group messages there because they show the sender and recipient name as the same. I always check the bulk folder daily just to see if there's messages in there that shouldn't be. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2689	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

I won't say it.......    aw, whet the heck, I WILL say it :-)....     Got a new car for my wife.  Good trade. <GD&R>   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have two girls... Besides... my wife would kill me.... then sell the Mustang... and all my trains... John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Thanks, Jerry... Maybe this is why the original owner never finished it... I will find one... If I have to sell my first born, I will! What a guy, willing to sell his son to get a six wheel trailing truck. I'd probably sell the Mustang first, but that's me. Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2690	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: OT: Posting

Rick, I don't remember your other messages but this one came through just fine.. Dave S. My Railroad picture pages are at www.flickr.com/photos/des-productions Miscellaneous other pictures are at www.flickr.com/photos/des-productions1 Rick wrote: > Three times this week I have tried to post a message to the list > and it never came back to me in e-mail. The first two attempts were > about some items I acquired last weekend and included photos. The > third attempt was just a test message. > All three messages show up when looking at messages on the Yahoo > web site, they just aren't coming through the e-mail with everybody > else's postings. I'm writing this at the web site rather than > e-mailing it to see if this is more successful. > Any ideas why my messages are getting blocked from the e-mails? > > Rick Jones > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2691	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

Ok, I am such an idiot... I just opened my MR encyclopedia and compared this shell to the Challenger and the Big Boy. A fellow member informed me that this was Bowser Big Boy shell and that is how it was originally made. ( I could not re-find his email to be sure I was not dreaming it or tho thank him. ) It looks to me like it is the big boy... So, now, I need the entire chassis for a big boy.... Looks like I will be contacting Bowser after all! Thanks Guys! Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2692	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: OT: Posting

Don Dellmann wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick" <r.t.jones@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:14 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] OT: Posting > > >> Three times this week I have tried to post a message to the list >> and it never came back to me in e-mail. The first two attempts were >> about some items I acquired last weekend and included photos. The >> third attempt was just a test message. >> All three messages show up when looking at messages on the Yahoo >> web site, they just aren't coming through the e-mail with everybody >> else's postings. I'm writing this at the web site rather than >> e-mailing it to see if this is more successful. >> Any ideas why my messages are getting blocked from the e-mails? >> >> Rick Jones > > Did you see my reply to your test? > >>From your SBC home page, click on email, and look in your "bulk" folder. > I'll bet you'll find your message there, open it, then click the "not spam" > button on the top of the page, that will automatically move your message to > your "in box" folder. I often find that SBC-Yahoo's "spam guard plus", > while the best filter out there (IMHO), will sometimes put my group messages > there because they show the sender and recipient name as the same. I always > check the bulk folder daily just to see if there's messages in there that > shouldn't be. No, I didn't see the reply to the test but I saw this one and it was just as you said. I guess I was not even aware of that feature since I moved to SBC DSL in November. I found over 180 messages in that Junk folder, about 10% of which should not have been there. I'm actually surprised at how much spam I'd accumulated over the past 3.5 months since this e-dress has only been in use for that amount of time. Doesn't take the vermin much time to harvest and begin using new e-dresses, does it? Hopefully, since I've marked those messages and others as Not Spam things will come through more readily. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ I read recipes the same way I read science fiction. I get to the end and think, "Well, that's not going to happen."

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2693	From: oljoe@landolls.com	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hello; I just found a copy of the Assembly Instructions for the Penn Line D-2 switcher with the worm and gear drive. They will hopefully be put up at HOSEEKER.com soon. Also - did you get the set of pics I emailed to you? Joe O'Loughlin sean naylor wrote: > > > Hey Joe! > Send them right over! I will take what ever you have to offer! Thanks... > I was thinking I might try to duplicate the scene pictured in the tiny > display using the engine I have. As I already stated, I think the smoke > stack was filed down..that would be easy enough to repair with brass > tubing of the same diameter... The window rail is a little harder and I > really can not make out the paint... I would love to see your picturs... > I hae already googled the names of all three owners of Penn Line and > they all lead back to that same site and that is it... Other than a road > trip, I think info might soon wear thin, but then again, who knows.... > Sean > > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: > > Sean..... > I found my pics of the silver dollar Whitcomb. One is > exactly like your overhead shot of the item. The rest > are all different from your pair. I also have 2 emails > that attribute the silver dollar display to Abe at > Penn Line. If you would like I can forward all of > the items to you at your email address - just say > you want them. One of the pics is of a pristine > ready to run Whitcomb, probably around 1960. It was > an ebay item several years ago as was one of the > silver dollar diaplays (got all of my pics from ebay > auctions). I bid on both the display and the pristine > whitcomb and didn't even come close. > Just remmebered that one of the pics is of the > assembly instructions for the Whitcomb. > > Still can't believe how this thread has grown and > all the interesting info that is still showing up. > A lot of stuff on a very small switcher. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> wrote: > > > > That looks like the idea. Somewhere I have a pic > > of the one I'm talking about sans the little town > > scene in your pic. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Joe... > > > Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend! > > > > > > I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two > > engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is > > more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the > > one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the > > air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck - > > no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top > > of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you > > look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what > > appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab > > iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly > > smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo > > appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin > > striping. > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" > <http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE4MGw4Z2hlBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW5jZW50ZXI-> > at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2694	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hello Joe, Thaks, I will have to remember to look for them... I did get your pics... Thanks.   I emailed this to you the last time... maybe you did not get it or missed it.... Sean   See attached following copy of the previous email:     Printable View This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message - Mark as Unread ] Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:11:00 -0800 (PST) From: "sean naylor" <a69mustang4me@...>  View Contact Details   Add Mobile Alert Subject: Re: did you get the .... To: oljoe@... I sure did... Thanks. Sorry, I kind of lost my head the past couple of days... I have not been paying too much attention to my emails since Friday b/c I had 54 N scale engines show up on Friday and I have been listing them like crazy to try to get my money back. I like to sell the N scale to pay for my HO scale habit.  I also fixed both of our toilets this weekend and went to a train show in Butler Pa yesterday.   I looked over the pics and they looked great, however they are of definite Whitcomb version. There is also a small switcher (like the kind you sent) sitting on a large concrete pedestal above/behind a used car dealership (why?) near my house... I assume it was painted reddish orange at some time, b/c it is almost pink now.   I took the Penn Line?? to the show with me yesterday with the hopes of someone being able to confirm the identity of the engine... No definitive luck! I had one guy try to tell me - even the Whitcomb! - was actually Fleischmann! He said all Penn lines were actually made by Fleischmann! I told him that may have been true for some later model, but not the early and not the Whitcomb (which has never, to my knowledge, been reproduced by anyone other than Penn Line!) What an ass... I did not even bother pulling my engine out of it's box...I knew right away that guy was a know-it-all who actually knew nothing. I took it to another older guy (70's plus in age) I knew from past trading (He kit bashed a Penn Central FL-9 which I traded him a bunch of Brass detail pieces for.). He immediately said Penn Line...  But he had never seen one like it before...   I think my only option now is to go to the source and try to get in contact with some descendants of the designer Abe. I found and printed out three different addresses on Friday.   Did you get a good look at the black and white photo...? Not the color, like you sent me... The other one... There are way too many similarities for it not to be Penn Line... Thanks again for the pics, Sean oljoe@... wrote: Did you get the Penn Line photos I sent several days ago. Joe O'Loughlin   No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2695	From: oljoe@landolls.com	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

I sure didn't get your email. That "pink" Whitcomb must have been put there by Lionel :-)). I will email you when I see the D-2 on the site..... That idiot that tried to tell you Fleischman made it is just plain NUTS. It's way too crude for anything Fleischman. By the way I have a Penn Line CD put out by one of the family folks. Don't know where I put it but I'm looking. Got to take a look at the B/W photo you mentioned. Joe O'Loughlin sean naylor wrote: > > > Hello Joe, > Thaks, I will have to remember to look for them... I did get your > pics... Thanks. > > I emailed this to you the last time... maybe you did not get it or > missed it.... > Sean > > See attached following copy of the previous email: > > > Printable View > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&PRINT=1&ShowImages=&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1> > This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&FLG=1&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1> > - Mark as Unread > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&UNR=1&.crumb=Th/PpUeS.wT&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1> > ] > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:11:00 -0800 (PST) > From: "sean naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> View Contact Details > View Contact Details > <http://address.mail.yahoo.com/yab?.rand=45672&v=SA&A=t&em=a69mustang4me%40yahoo.com&.done=http%3a%2f%2fus.f317.mail.yahoo.com%2fym%2fShowLetter%3fMsgId%3d1860%5f5642115%5f927%5f656%5f1741%5f50459%5f53239%26sbox%3d%2540S%2540Search%26Idx%3d0%26pos%3d0%26Search%3d1%26box%3d%40S%40Search%26> Add > Mobile Alert > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter;_ylc=X3oDMTRpb3M1MHF0BEFjdGlvbgNWaWV3IG1lc3NhZ2UESW50bAN1cwRMbmtUeXADUmVndWxhcgRSZXNQb3NBAzEEUmVzUG9zUgMxBFNyY2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ2UEU3JjaERlc3QDbWVzc2FnZXZpZXcEX1F1ZXJ5SWQDMjE3MjMxOTQ3MzQ1ZDc1YzBjYjE0NzIE#> > Subject: Re: did you get the .... > To: oljoe@... > > I sure did... Thanks. Sorry, I kind of lost my head the past couple of > days... I have not been paying too much attention to my emails since > Friday b/c I had 54 N scale engines show up on Friday and I have been > listing them like crazy to try to get my money back. I like to sell the > N scale to pay for my HO scale habit. I also fixed both of our toilets > this weekend and went to a train show in Butler Pa yesterday. > > I looked over the pics and they looked great, however they are of > definite Whitcomb version. There is also a small switcher (like the kind > you sent) sitting on a large concrete pedestal above/behind a used car > dealership (why?) near my house... I assume it was painted reddish > orange at some time, b/c it is almost pink now. > > I took the Penn Line?? to the show with me yesterday with the hopes of > someone being able to confirm the identity of the engine... No > definitive luck! I had one guy try to tell me - even the Whitcomb! - was > actually Fleischmann! He said all Penn lines were actually made by > Fleischmann! I told him that may have been true for some later model, > but not the early and not the Whitcomb (which has never, to my > knowledge, been reproduced by anyone other than Penn Line!) What an > ass... I did not even bother pulling my engine out of it's box...I knew > right away that guy was a know-it-all who actually knew nothing. I took > it to another older guy (70's plus in age) I knew from past trading > (He kit bashed a Penn Central FL-9 which I traded him a bunch of Brass > detail pieces for.). He immediately said Penn Line... But he had never > seen one like it before... > > I think my only option now is to go to the source and try to get in > contact with some descendants of the designer Abe. I found and printed > out three different addresses on Friday. > > Did you get a good look at the black and white photo...? Not the color, > like you sent me... The other one... There are way too many similarities > for it not to be Penn Line... > Thanks again for the pics, Sean > > oljoe@... wrote: > > Did you get the Penn Line photos I sent several days ago. > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2696	From: takefive247	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: 1930 mantua?

Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2697	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini

Joe, When you find it, is there a website listed on it?  Where can one find such a CD? Thanks,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of oljoe@... Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:46 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.   I sure didn't get your email. That "pink" Whitcomb must have been put there by Lionel :-)). I will email you when I see the D-2 on the site..... That idiot that tried to tell you Fleischman made it is just plain NUTS. It's way too crude for anything Fleischman. By the way I have a Penn Line CD put out by one of the family folks. Don't know where I put it but I'm looking. Got to take a look at the B/W photo you mentioned. Joe O'Loughlin sean naylor wrote: > > > Hello Joe, > Thaks, I will have to remember to look for them... I did get your > pics... Thanks. > > I emailed this to you the last time... maybe you did not get it or > missed it.... > Sean > > See attached following copy of the previous email: > > > Printable View > < href="http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&PRINT=1&ShowImages=&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1">http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r?box=Sent& MsgId=1860_ 5642115_50459_ 656_1741_ 0_53239_5208_ 3649266062& Idx=0&Search= 1&PRINT=1& ShowImages= &YY=69498& y5beta=yes& order=&sort= &pos=0&B= 1> > This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message > < href="http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&FLG=1&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1">http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r?box=Sent& MsgId=1860_ 5642115_50459_ 656_1741_ 0_53239_5208_ 3649266062& Idx=0&Search= 1&FLG=1&YY= 69498&y5beta= yes&order= &sort=&pos= 0&B=1> > - Mark as Unread > < href="http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&UNR=1&.crumb=Th/PpUeS.wT&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1">http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r?box=Sent& MsgId=1860_ 5642115_50459_ 656_1741_ 0_53239_5208_ 3649266062& Idx=0&Search= 1&UNR=1&. crumb=Th/ PpUeS.wT& YY=69498& y5beta=yes& order=&sort= &pos=0&B= 1> > ] > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:11:00 -0800 (PST) > From: "sean naylor" < href="mailto:a69mustang4me%40yahoo.com">a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> View Contact Details > View Contact Details > < href="http://address.mail.yahoo.com/yab?.rand=45672&v=SA&A=t&em=a69mustang4me%40yahoo.com&.done=http%3a%2f%2fus.f317.mail.yahoo.com%2fym%2fShowLetter%3fMsgId%3d1860%5f5642115%5f927%5f656%5f1741%5f50459%5f53239%26sbox%3d%2540S%2540Search%26Idx%3d0%26pos%3d0%26Search%3d1%26box%3d%40S%40Search%26">http://address. mail.yahoo. com/yab?. rand=45672& v=SA&A=t& em=a69mustang4me %40yahoo. com&.done= http%3a%2f% 2fus.f317. mail.yahoo. com%2fym% 2fShowLetter% 3fMsgId%3d1860% 5f5642115% 5f927%5f656% 5f1741%5f50459% 5f53239%26sbox% 3d%2540S% 2540Search% 26Idx%3d0% 26pos%3d0% 26Search% 3d1%26box% 3d%40S%40Search% 26> Add > Mobile Alert > < href="http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter;_ylc=X3oDMTRpb3M1MHF0BEFjdGlvbgNWaWV3IG1lc3NhZ2UESW50bAN1cwRMbmtUeXADUmVndWxhcgRSZXNQb3NBAzEEUmVzUG9zUgMxBFNyY2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ2UEU3JjaERlc3QDbWVzc2FnZXZpZXcEX1F1ZXJ5SWQDMjE3MjMxOTQ3MzQ1ZDc1YzBjYjE0NzIE">http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r;_ylc=X3oDMTRpb 3M1MHF0BEFjdGlvb gNWaWV3IG1lc3NhZ 2UESW50bAN1cwRMb mtUeXADUmVndWxhc gRSZXNQb3NBAzEEU mVzUG9zUgMxBFNyY 2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ 2UEU3JjaERlc3QDb WVzc2FnZXZpZXcEX 1F1ZXJ5SWQDMjE3M jMxOTQ3MzQ1ZDc1Y zBjYjE0NzIE#> > Subject: Re: did you get the .... > To: oljoe@landolls. com > > I sure did... Thanks. Sorry, I kind of lost my head the past couple of > days... I have not been paying too much attention to my emails since > Friday b/c I had 54 N scale engines show up on Friday and I have been > listing them like crazy to try to get my money back. I like to sell the > N scale to pay for my HO scale habit. I also fixed both of our toilets > this weekend and went to a train show in w:st="on">Butler Pa yesterday. > > I looked over the pics and they looked great, however they are of > definite Whitcomb version. There is also a small switcher (like the kind > you sent) sitting on a large concrete pedestal above/behind a used car > dealership (why?) near my house... I assume it was painted reddish > orange at some time, b/c it is almost pink now. > > I took the Penn Line?? to the show with me yesterday with the hopes of > someone being able to confirm the identity of the engine... No > definitive luck! I had one guy try to tell me - even the Whitcomb! - was > actually Fleischmann! He said all Penn lines were actually made by > Fleischmann! I told him that may have been true for some later model, > but not the early and not the Whitcomb (which has never, to my > knowledge, been reproduced by anyone other than Penn Line!) What an > ass... I did not even bother pulling my engine out of it's box...I knew > right away that guy was a know-it-all who actually knew nothing. I took > it to another older guy (70's plus in age) I knew from past trading > (He kit bashed a Penn Central FL-9 which I traded him a bunch of Brass > detail pieces for.). He immediately said Penn Line... But he had never > seen one like it before... > > I think my only option now is to go to the source and try to get in > contact with some descendants of the designer Abe. I found and printed > out three different addresses on Friday. > > Did you get a good look at the black and white photo...? Not the color, > like you sent me... The other one... There are way too many similarities > for it not to be Penn Line... > Thanks again for the pics, Sean > > oljoe@landolls. com wrote: > > Did you get the Penn Line photos I sent several days ago. > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > < href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail">http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=43910/ *http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile . Get started. > < href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail">http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=43910/ *http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2698	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

1950'S on up. Roger Aultman takefive247 wrote: > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2699	From: jay matz	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Bill The General didn't come out till after WW2 not in the 30s. Jay takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote: Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 Bill No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2700	From: Martin Rosenfeld	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

On 02/17/07 takefive247 wrote: > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 At least it has brass handrails and domes! Martin Rosenfeld

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2701	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Dear Group,   I think you will find the model manifestation of the "General" came on the heels of the Walt Disney movie, starring Fess Parker, of "The Great Locomotive Chase". That was made in the mid-1950's. I would be interested in seeing any catalog info on Mantua of the 1930's or 1940's, if any exists. Seriously, from just a historic perspective.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote: Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 Bill Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2702	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on "HO". 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id be tempted to go $25.00. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2703	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "takefive247" <takefive@...> Ya know, this knd of stuff pis...irratates the heck out of me. I have sold things on ebay and I tried to give an honest assessment of the item based on what I knew about it. And if I didn't know much about it I didn't write a bunch of B.S. that only serves to make the seller look either crooked or stupid or both. Which is the most likely. And then, although he tries to sound like he knows what he's talking about, he says he doesn't know if it RUNS!!! What kind of a guy who has any actual knowledge of model trains doesn't have some way of putting it on a piece of track and turning on the power. I mean it's HO fer crying out loud. Maybe if it was "O" or "S" scale he couldn't find available powered track buy even then, 2 wires and 12 volts. H**l he's most certainly has an automobile or knows someone who does. Don't know if it runs. Crap. That'a like those IDIOTS that list some rare classic automobile and go on and on all about the car and then says "I haven't tried to start it." And expects big dollar bids. But, like Don said, at least he put a reasonable starting price on it. > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > > > > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > > Bill > > I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on > "HO". > > 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting > bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id > be tempted to go $25.00. > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2704	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?   ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on "HO". 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id be tempted to go $25.00. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2705	From: Dst8596587@aol.com	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

First marketed in 1953 and has been produced under both the Tyco and Mantua name. I also believe that American Flyer catalouged a set using this engine in HO.   Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2706	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

You could take a plastic one and have a brass investment casting made from it--that sacrifices the plastic one-- ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? Hey Mike,   Thanks, I think however, I am going to avoid Rivarossi at all costs... No plastic on my model... I never imagined it would be so difficult to find one, however...   I think I may have to build on of my own... I have a couple brass trailing trucks I can play with. I would not mind eventually getting an Arbor Models engine eventually.   Thanks..   Sean "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@ comcast.net> wrote: Sean:  Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.   Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.   Mike Looney Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2707	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /Bronze Streamliner.jpg Uploaded by : mwbauers <mwbauers55@...> Description : One I've read about........ But can't be sure of the maker. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Bronze%20Streamliner.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, mwbauers <mwbauers55@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2708	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: (no subject)

I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.............. I have only a rough idea....... So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2709	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

Varney streamlined Hudson? should pull a ton if you restore it. Roger Aultman Mike Bauers wrote: > I just got this model today. > > I don't know just which model it is.............. > > I have only a rough idea....... > > So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO > locomotive' ........ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!! > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2710	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

NOT 1930's (more like 1950's) and NOT brass.  Price isn't bad for what it is.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? Bill The General didn't come out till after WW2 not in the 30s. Jay takefive247 <takefive@snet. net> wrote: Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 Bill No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2711	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

That is an idea... never thought of it that way.... Sean Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: You could take a plastic one and have a brass investment casting made from it--that sacrifices the plastic one-- ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? Hey Mike,   Thanks, I think however, I am going to avoid Rivarossi at all costs... No plastic on my model... I never imagined it would be so difficult to find one, however...   I think I may have to build on of my own... I have a couple brass trailing trucks I can play with. I would not mind eventually getting an Arbor Models engine eventually.   Thanks..   Sean "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@ comcast.net> wrote: Sean:  Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.   Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.   Mike Looney Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2712	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

On some of the sites I regularly visit, I will sometimes send the seller a message if it looks like he might actually make a change in the listing.   I particularly frequent OO Scale and On3--in one case I wound up finding  out the seller was the cousin of a guy I had known back in grade school.    Some of these guys really do not know what they have   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "takefive247" <takefive@.. .> Ya know, this knd of stuff pis...irratates the heck out of me. I have sold things on ebay and I tried to give an honest assessment of the item based on what I knew about it. And if I didn't know much about it I didn't write a bunch of B.S. that only serves to make the seller look either crooked or stupid or both. Which is the most likely. And then, although he tries to sound like he knows what he's talking about, he says he doesn't know if it RUNS!!! What kind of a guy who has any actual knowledge of model trains doesn't have some way of putting it on a piece of track and turning on the power. I mean it's HO fer crying out loud. Maybe if it was "O" or "S" scale he couldn't find available powered track buy even then, 2 wires and 12 volts. H**l he's most certainly has an automobile or knows someone who does. Don't know if it runs. Crap. That'a like those IDIOTS that list some rare classic automobile and go on and on all about the car and then says "I haven't tried to start it." And expects big dollar bids. But, like Don said, at least he put a reasonable starting price on it. > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > > > > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > > Bill > > I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on > "HO". > > 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting > bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id > be tempted to go $25.00. > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2713	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Attachments : Sounds great! Thanks! I would sure be interested to see what is on that CD... as well... Here is another copy of the black and white pic... you can clearly see the similarities between the B/W & my green weenie...  there are no steps (front or rear)... the flat bottom of the (what looks to be brass plate) chassis... The same squared-off gear box... the longer grab irons on top of the hood... (almost as but not as clear) non-protruding headlight... air tank straps that appear to go straight up to the underside of the deck...   hmmm... Sean oljoe@... wrote: I sure didn't get your email. That "pink" Whitcomb must have been put there by Lionel :-)). I will email you when I see the D-2 on the site..... That idiot that tried to tell you Fleischman made it is just plain NUTS. It's way too crude for anything Fleischman. By the way I have a Penn Line CD put out by one of the family folks. Don't know where I put it but I'm looking. Got to take a look at the B/W photo you mentioned. Joe O'Loughlin sean naylor wrote: > > > Hello Joe, > Thaks, I will have to remember to look for them... I did get your > pics... Thanks. > > I emailed this to you the last time... maybe you did not get it or > missed it.... > Sean > > See attached following copy of the previous email: > > > Printable View > <http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r?box=Sent& MsgId=1860_ 5642115_50459_ 656_1741_ 0_53239_5208_ 3649266062& Idx=0&Search= 1&PRINT=1& ShowImages= &YY=69498& y5beta=yes& order=&sort= &pos=0&B= 1> > This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message > <http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r?box=Sent& MsgId=1860_ 5642115_50459_ 656_1741_ 0_53239_5208_ 3649266062& Idx=0&Search= 1&FLG=1&YY= 69498&y5beta= yes&order= &sort=&pos= 0&B=1> > - Mark as Unread > <http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r?box=Sent& MsgId=1860_ 5642115_50459_ 656_1741_ 0_53239_5208_ 3649266062& Idx=0&Search= 1&UNR=1&. crumb=Th/ PpUeS.wT& YY=69498& y5beta=yes& order=&sort= &pos=0&B= 1> > ] > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:11:00 -0800 (PST) > From: "sean naylor" <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> View Contact Details > View Contact Details > <http://address. mail.yahoo. com/yab?. rand=45672& v=SA&A=t& em=a69mustang4me %40yahoo. com&.done= http%3a%2f% 2fus.f317. mail.yahoo. com%2fym% 2fShowLetter% 3fMsgId%3d1860% 5f5642115% 5f927%5f656% 5f1741%5f50459% 5f53239%26sbox% 3d%2540S% 2540Search% 26Idx%3d0% 26pos%3d0% 26Search% 3d1%26box% 3d%40S%40Search% 26> Add > Mobile Alert > <http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r;_ylc=X3oDMTRpb 3M1MHF0BEFjdGlvb gNWaWV3IG1lc3NhZ 2UESW50bAN1cwRMb mtUeXADUmVndWxhc gRSZXNQb3NBAzEEU mVzUG9zUgMxBFNyY 2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ 2UEU3JjaERlc3QDb WVzc2FnZXZpZXcEX 1F1ZXJ5SWQDMjE3M jMxOTQ3MzQ1ZDc1Y zBjYjE0NzIE#> > Subject: Re: did you get the .... > To: oljoe@landolls. com > > I sure did... Thanks. Sorry, I kind of lost my head the past couple of > days... I have not been paying too much attention to my emails since > Friday b/c I had 54 N scale engines show up on Friday and I have been > listing them like crazy to try to get my money back. I like to sell the > N scale to pay for my HO scale habit. I also fixed both of our toilets > this weekend and went to a train show in Butler Pa yesterday. > > I looked over the pics and they looked great, however they are of > definite Whitcomb version. There is also a small switcher (like the kind > you sent) sitting on a large concrete pedestal above/behind a used car > dealership (why?) near my house... I assume it was painted reddish > orange at some time, b/c it is almost pink now. > > I took the Penn Line?? to the show with me yesterday with the hopes of > someone being able to confirm the identity of the engine... No > definitive luck! I had one guy try to tell me - even the Whitcomb! - was > actually Fleischmann! He said all Penn lines were actually made by > Fleischmann! I told him that may have been true for some later model, > but not the early and not the Whitcomb (which has never, to my > knowledge, been reproduced by anyone other than Penn Line!) What an > ass... I did not even bother pulling my engine out of it's box...I knew > right away that guy was a know-it-all who actually knew nothing. I took > it to another older guy (70's plus in age) I knew from past trading > (He kit bashed a Penn Central FL-9 which I traded him a bunch of Brass > detail pieces for.). He immediately said Penn Line... But he had never > seen one like it before... > > I think my only option now is to go to the source and try to get in > contact with some descendants of the designer Abe. I found and printed > out three different addresses on Friday. > > Did you get a good look at the black and white photo...? Not the color, > like you sent me... The other one... There are way too many similarities > for it not to be Penn Line... > Thanks again for the pics, Sean > > oljoe@landolls. com wrote: > > Did you get the Penn Line photos I sent several days ago. > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=43910/ *http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=43910/ *http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail > > Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2714	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

well--if there are two or more guys who want it that badly----   I notice that they bid history has been changed so as not to disclose the bidders--I liked the old way--I would not bid against certain friends, and definitely would not bid against the ones who seemed to have an "unlimited checkbook".  now, with "bidder #1" and "Bidder #2", etc--I don;to know who I am bidding against.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Garteiser To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:33 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on "HO". 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id be tempted to go $25.00. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2715	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

I think that puts it ahead of the Disney movie. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dst8596587@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? First marketed in 1953 and has been produced under both the Tyco and Mantua name. I also believe that American Flyer catalouged a set using this engine in HO.   Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2716	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

 That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about last week, Varney.   Don'   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:19 PM Subject: [vintageHO] I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.............. I have only a rough idea....... So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........ You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.............. I have only a rough idea....... So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO  locomotive' ........  You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost  me !!!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2717	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

 I think someone just had one of these this past week--Varney Hudson.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:19 PM Subject: [vintageHO] I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.............. I have only a rough idea....... So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........ You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.............. I have only a rough idea....... So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO  locomotive' ........  You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost  me !!!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2718	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...> wrote: How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on "HO". 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id be tempted to go $25.00. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2719	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

Mike, Just got mine last week... Looks exactly the same... heck, I paid $75 for the shell... you tell me yours and I might be sick... Sean Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.............. I have only a rough idea....... So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........  You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2720	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

Attachments : Don, Here is mine... I threw it on a 4-6-2 chassis and switched the rear truck... Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:  That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about last week, Varney.   Don'   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:19 PM Subject: [vintageHO] I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.......... .... I have only a rough idea....... So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........ You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.......... .... I have only a rough idea....... So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO  locomotive' ........  You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost  me !!!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2721	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

Hey Sean, Very clever idea, using an Aqufina bottle as an oil storage tank. Can't wait to see it with paint, pipes, ladders, etc. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Don, > Here is mine... I threw it on a 4-6-2 chassis and switched the rear truck... > Sean > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >  That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about last week, Varney. > > Don' >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2722	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

It's supposed to be a Hudson ?!?!? Cool! I'll see that it gets finished as one. I finally got a sweet vintage Varney ............ I've wanted this engine for a long, long time. She deserves being finally completed to operational condition. I need to be creative about putting decent gears into her. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 17, 2007, at 7:25 PM, Roger Aultman wrote: > Varney streamlined Hudson? should pull a ton if you restore it. > Roger Aultman > > > > > Mike Bauers wrote: >> I just got this model today. >> >> I don't know just which model it is.............. >> >> I have only a rough idea....... >> >> So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO >> locomotive' ........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2723	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

A Varney Hudson.........  Cool!!! I've admired this engine from the first unidentified glimpses in older model railroad mags when I first got into the hobby in 1968. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 17, 2007, at 8:05 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote: I think someone just had one of these this past week--Varney Hudson.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.............. I have only a rough idea.......

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2724	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

Hi Sean, I was very, very lucky. I almost missed this, and certainly couldn't believe the price. So I whipped out the money and nested it into my back-pack. You would be very sick if I told you the price..... So let's leave it for later...... I got some other things from the same table that I am also puzzled about and will post soon.  Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 17, 2007, at 8:21 PM, sean naylor wrote: Mike, Just got mine last week... Looks exactly the same... heck, I paid $75 for the shell... you tell me yours and I might be sick... Sean Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.............. I have only a rough idea....... So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........  You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2725	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

She sure does look nice! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 17, 2007, at 8:27 PM, sean naylor wrote: Don, Here is mine... I threw it on a 4-6-2 chassis and switched the rear truck... Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about last week, Varney.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2726	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Mystery PA1

Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney Hudson parts. Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting?  It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts. I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose since there are no other open regions in the casting.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2727	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1

Mike, Are the window "openings" solid cast or is it thin, like casting flash. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney > Hudson parts. > > Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting? > > It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts. > I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose > since there are no other open regions in the casting. > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2728	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

Funny Funny..Har Har... John. I have to keep it real basic for a while... Hey, if you had my 2 year old Godzilla roaming around your house.. you would keep your good stuff boxed up too... Got to keep the detail to a minimum for now... She takes after me... I remember when I was a little older than her... My brother had (and still has) a old wooden 40's Wurlitzer Jukebox  all torn apart... He had all the parts in boxes... including all the neon tubes..  He has never put it back together... I think the big reason is because when I was 4 or 5, I broke every single tube... It runs in the family... I had a display on the top shelf of my livingroom, next to the fireplace. On the shelf was some of my prize New Haven equipment... One of the nicest is a 2-8-2 which was sitting on top of a tall arch wooden trestle bridge. putting it nearly 8 feet off of the floor. At 1 year old, Godzilla climbed up the shelves, reached up and proceded to send it to the floor.. did not even knock the bridge over... Just the engine... I put them all away after that...   My 50 year old hand built 6 stall engine roundhouse which had a fully detailed interior, with working doors, cranes, crew pits, work benches, etc (it even has an office with a toilet, desk, chair, papers on the desk, coffee mug & pot on the pot bellied stove as well as nudie pictures on the stove) had every single window poked out... Now... I use a shoe box...   The roundhouse was built by the same guy who built the caboose I have interior pictures in my "Some of My Many Projects" folder on Don's site. The caboose has the same level of detail, including fire extinguishers, nudie pictures, coffee mugs & pots, bunk beds & fibre optic liting for the interior and exterior lanterns... The glue has come lose on some of it, so I have each one (was a lot of 28+ cabooses) in plastic zip-loc baggies holding all the details.   Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: Hey Sean, Very clever idea, using an Aqufina bottle as an oil storage tank. Can't wait to see it with paint, pipes, ladders, etc. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Don, > Here is mine... I threw it on a 4-6-2 chassis and switched the rear truck... > Sean > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: >  That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about last week, Varney. > > Don' > It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2729	From: jay matz	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1

Mike I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells. I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation. Jay Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney Hudson parts. Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting? It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts. I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose since there are no other open regions in the casting. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2730	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Mystery Mohawk

Here's a mystery HO Mohawk I got a long with the Varney Hudson parts....... It is mostly etched brass with white metal lead and trailing trucks. The etchings include the road name and the cab numbers The only brand name I can find is on the bottom of the cast lead truck, 'Varney'. I suspect this lead truck is  a stock Varney replacement part, or the original from the Varney Hudson that was part of the same estate. Perhaps the etched brass Mohawk is of the same era as the Varney streamliined Hudson, making this quite an old imported Mohawk. I may have read about this one a very long time ago where it's distinctive build was discussed. Is this familiar to anyone???

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2731	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1

Lindsay did have a PA-1, which I believe was later also made by Kemtron.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery PA1 Mike I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells. I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation. Jay Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney Hudson parts. Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting? It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts. I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose since there are no other open regions in the casting. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2732	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:

Many thanks Don, I was quite unsure about this one. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 17, 2007, at 7:45 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about last week, Varney.   Don'

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2733	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"

Dear Mike,   The loco in the photo looks more 4-8-4 in potential configuration to me than a "Mohawk." I had a brass "Niagara" and a "Mohawk" years ago, and this charming relic looks like a "Niagara".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: Here's a mystery HO Mohawk I got a long with the Varney Hudson parts....... It is mostly etched brass with white metal lead and trailing trucks. The etchings include the road name and the cab numbers The only brand name I can find is on the bottom of the cast lead truck, 'Varney'. I suspect this lead truck is a stock Varney replacement part, or the original from the Varney Hudson that was part of the same estate. Perhaps the etched brass Mohawk is of the same era as the Varney streamliined Hudson, making this quite an old imported Mohawk. I may have read about this one a very long time ago where it's distinctive build was discussed. Is this familiar to anyone???   Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2734	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1

I think the Lindsey also came to be the HobbyTown of Boston PA body.......... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 17, 2007, at 10:21 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: Lindsay did have a PA-1, which I believe was later also made by Kemtron.   Don ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz Mike I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells. I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2735	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: - I Think...B&O

Dear Mike,   The casting is crude, but the general outline looks like a B&O Royal Blue ("Cinncinatian") loco attempt. American Flyer was famous for that train in "S".   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: I just got this model today. I don't know just which model it is.............. I have only a rough idea....... So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........  You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2736	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1

The windows are solid parts of the casting. Rather well defined, but close to 3/16 wall-thickness. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 17, 2007, at 9:51 PM, John Hagen wrote: > Mike, > > Are the window "openings" solid cast or is it thin, like casting > flash. > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney >> Hudson parts.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2737	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk

That tender with the embossed NYC logo I sold a while back... The guy who purchased it told me who made it.. I might be able to find the info... It might be an early Japan.. Sean Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: Here's a mystery HO Mohawk I got a long with the Varney Hudson parts....... It is mostly etched brass with white metal lead and trailing trucks. The etchings include the road name and the cab numbers The only brand name I can find is on the bottom of the cast lead truck, 'Varney'. I suspect this lead truck is a stock Varney replacement part, or the original from the Varney Hudson that was part of the same estate. Perhaps the etched brass Mohawk is of the same era as the Varney streamliined Hudson, making this quite an old imported Mohawk. I may have read about this one a very long time ago where it's distinctive build was discussed. Is this familiar to anyone???   Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2738	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Attachments : Mike B and list: Well the bronze casting sure looks like a Varney Streamlined Pacific. I have a Varney Catalog from 1941. Pages 22 and 23 have two photographs and a drawing of the streamlined tender. Text reads; The 'Streamliner' embodies all of the desirable features of the most popular of the steam locomotives which have been 'dressed up'. We have made a composite from which it is but a simple task to follow exact prototype design on any one of a half dozen locomotives. The body is heavy enough to impart tremendous pulling power, and long enough to add a four wheeled trailing truck to make a Hudson 4-6-4. The model photographed (above) was assembled from a stock kit, and has not been modified. If further interested, I could have these two pages photostated and get them off to you. A complete price list is also shown. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2739	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1

That sounds like an on-target match. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 17, 2007, at 10:07 PM, jay matz wrote: Mike I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells. I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation. Jay Mike Bauers  wrote: Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney Hudson parts.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2740	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1

I don't think so, because Kemtron sold it for many years AFTER the Hobbytown was introduced.  Unless the Lindsay became Hobbytown, and Kemtron did one on their own.   If there's anything in that bag you don't want, you know where I live! :-)   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery PA1 I think the Lindsey also came to be the HobbyTown of Boston PA body.......... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 17, 2007, at 10:21 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: Lindsay did have a PA-1, which I believe was later also made by Kemtron.   Don ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz Mike I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells. I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2741	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies

Chuck..... I found it on an ebay auction some time ago. No website. It was created by a relative of the original Penn Line owners. I know I've looked at it but don't remember a thing I saw, but I do recall it was interesting to me. Please send me your contact info - ;-). Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Joe, > > When you find it, is there a website listed on it? Where can one find such > a CD? > > Thanks, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of oljoe@... > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:46 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini > Diesel. > > > > I sure didn't get your email. > That "pink" Whitcomb must have been put there by Lionel :-)). > > I will email you when I see the D-2 on the site..... > > That idiot that tried to tell you Fleischman made it is > just plain NUTS. It's way too crude for anything Fleischman. > > By the way I have a Penn Line CD put out by one of the > family folks. Don't know where I put it but I'm looking. > > Got to take a look at the B/W photo you mentioned. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > sean naylor wrote: > > > > > > Hello Joe, > > Thaks, I will have to remember to look for them... I did get your > > pics... Thanks. > > > > I emailed this to you the last time... maybe you did not get it or > > missed it.... > > Sean > > > > See attached following copy of the previous email: > > > > > > Printable View > > <http://us.f317. > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_504 > 59_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&PRINT=1&ShowImages=&YY=69 > 498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1> > mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53 > 239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&PRINT=1&ShowImages=&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&o > rder=&sort=&pos=0&B=1> > > This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message > > <http://us.f317. > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_504 > 59_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&FLG=1&YY=69498&y5beta=yes > &order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1> > mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53 > 239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&FLG=1&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&po > s=0&B=1> > > - Mark as Unread > > <http://us.f317. > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_504 > 59_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&UNR=1&.crumb=Th/PpUeS.wT& > YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1> > mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53 > 239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&UNR=1&.crumb=Th/PpUeS.wT&YY=69498&y5beta= > yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1> > > ] > > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:11:00 -0800 (PST) > > From: "sean naylor" <a69mustang4me@ <mailto:a69mustang4me%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> View Contact Details > > View Contact Details > > <http://address. > <http://address.mail.yahoo.com/yab?.rand=45672&v=SA&A=t&em=a69mustang4me%40y > ahoo.com&.done=http%3a%2f%2fus.f317.mail.yahoo.com%2fym%2fShowLetter%3fMsgId > %3d1860%5f5642115%5f927%5f656%5f1741%5f50459%5f53239%26sbox%3d%2540S%2540Sea > rch%26Idx%3d0%26pos%3d0%26Search%3d1%26box%3d%40S%40Search%26> > mail.yahoo.com/yab?.rand=45672&v=SA&A=t&em=a69mustang4me%40yahoo.com&.done=h > ttp%3a%2f%2fus.f317.mail.yahoo.com%2fym%2fShowLetter%3fMsgId%3d1860%5f564211 > 5%5f927%5f656%5f1741%5f50459%5f53239%26sbox%3d%2540S%2540Search%26Idx%3d0%26 > pos%3d0%26Search%3d1%26box%3d%40S%40Search%26> Add > > Mobile Alert > > <http://us.f317. > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter;_ylc=X3oDMTRpb3M1MHF0BEFjdGlvbg > NWaWV3IG1lc3NhZ2UESW50bAN1cwRMbmtUeXADUmVndWxhcgRSZXNQb3NBAzEEUmVzUG9zUgMxBF > NyY2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ2UEU3JjaERlc3QDbWVzc2FnZXZpZXcEX1F1ZXJ5SWQDMjE3MjMxOTQ3Mz > Q1ZDc1YzBjYjE0NzIE> > mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter;_ylc=X3oDMTRpb3M1MHF0BEFjdGlvbgNWaWV3IG1lc3NhZ2 > UESW50bAN1cwRMbmtUeXADUmVndWxhcgRSZXNQb3NBAzEEUmVzUG9zUgMxBFNyY2hDdXJyA21lc3 > NhZ2UEU3JjaERlc3QDbWVzc2FnZXZpZXcEX1F1ZXJ5SWQDMjE3MjMxOTQ3MzQ1ZDc1YzBjYjE0Nz > IE#> > > Subject: Re: did you get the .... > > To: oljoe@landolls. <mailto:oljoe%40landolls.com> com > > > > I sure did... Thanks. Sorry, I kind of lost my head the past couple of > > days... I have not been paying too much attention to my emails since > > Friday b/c I had 54 N scale engines show up on Friday and I have been > > listing them like crazy to try to get my money back. I like to sell the > > N scale to pay for my HO scale habit. I also fixed both of our toilets > > this weekend and went to a train show in Butler Pa yesterday. > > > > I looked over the pics and they looked great, however they are of > > definite Whitcomb version. There is also a small switcher (like the kind > > you sent) sitting on a large concrete pedestal above/behind a used car > > dealership (why?) near my house... I assume it was painted reddish > > orange at some time, b/c it is almost pink now. > > > > I took the Penn Line?? to the show with me yesterday with the hopes of > > someone being able to confirm the identity of the engine... No > > definitive luck! I had one guy try to tell me - even the Whitcomb! - was > > actually Fleischmann! He said all Penn lines were actually made by > > Fleischmann! I told him that may have been true for some later model, > > but not the early and not the Whitcomb (which has never, to my > > knowledge, been reproduced by anyone other than Penn Line!) What an > > ass... I did not even bother pulling my engine out of it's box...I knew > > right away that guy was a know-it-all who actually knew nothing. I took > > it to another older guy (70's plus in age) I knew from past trading > > (He kit bashed a Penn Central FL-9 which I traded him a bunch of Brass > > detail pieces for.). He immediately said Penn Line... But he had never > > seen one like it before... > > > > I think my only option now is to go to the source and try to get in > > contact with some descendants of the designer Abe. I found and printed > > out three different addresses on Friday. > > > > Did you get a good look at the black and white photo...? Not the color, > > like you sent me... The other one... There are way too many similarities > > for it not to be Penn Line... > > Thanks again for the pics, Sean > > > > oljoe@landolls. <mailto:oljoe%40landolls.com> com wrote: > > > > Did you get the Penn Line photos I sent several days ago. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > <http://us.rd. > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail> > yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > <http://us.rd. > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail> > yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2742	From: Dst8596587@aol.com	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"

The engine was produced in 1953 by Imperial and had the etchings as described. In 1954 an ATSF hudson with etched roadname and numerals was also produced. The engine is a 4-8-4 NYC Niagra.   Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2743	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"

I agree... Imperial is the name I could not remember last night..  I purchased the tender originally w/o knowing it had the raised New York Central on the tender... Does not suit well on the New Haven.. Sean Dst8596587@... wrote: The engine was produced in 1953 by Imperial and had the etchings as described. In 1954 an ATSF hudson with etched roadname and numerals was also produced. The engine is a 4-8-4 NYC Niagra.   Don Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2744	From: Imp Ster	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: new (temp? argh) home pic. (&, Central Valley data wanted)

great image on the Vintage HO home page now. even if it is just an "ad" for the pic contest. the "trees" do a great job of giving scale to the structure. i had to chuckle seeing that cattle car spotted on the siding, i have the Revell issue (styrene body, die cast underframe, operating doors, vintage Kadee arch-bar talgo trucks) sitting right here, it was a real prize to find in a hobby shop junk box. just finished restoring a few bits of vintage rolling stock that came my way, card-wood 25' hopper w/ Central Valley archbars, wood-kit 25' mini-boxcar w/ CV archbars and actual opening doors, wood-kit crummy w/ leaf-spring CV trucks, got the seams dosed with ACC, vintage CV trucks all, new Kaydee all... in the same junque box was also found several card and wod boxcars, a Binkley Harriman coach in sections (glue had dried and separated), a cardstock blacksmithy (with wooden forge, anvil, water barrel) and a really great card and wood saloon with batwing doors. all items appear to date from pre-WW2. btw, anybody got the run-down on Central Valley as far as production issues and date-of-issue identifying marks? - many of the truck rames have minor zinc rot, but the wheel sets are the marvelous "glass insulated" metal wheels which will be great for interior lighting electrical supply on the cabeese and passenger stock. also, any and all anecdotes on Central Valley are most welcome. cheers ...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2745	From: takefive247	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

John, That's exactly why I asked. The guy even put down the wrong casting numbers. Then shows the photo of them. Did he do it just to throw people off? Or is honestly dumb? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > Ya know, this knd of stuff pis...irratates the heck out of me.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2746	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Bill, To update an old adage, "it is better not to key in anything and be thought a fool than it is to key in something and remove all doubt" I think he achieved the latter quite well. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote: > > John, > That's exactly why I asked. The guy even put down the wrong casting > numbers. Then shows the photo of them. Did he do it just to throw > people off? Or is honestly dumb? > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2747	From: takefive247	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

That one I can understand. Appears honest and still in the price range of a serious collector. Very serious collector that is. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote: > > How about the mint Mantua "Busy Bee" kit at $180 and still going???? JerryG > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2748	From: takefive247	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

I guess. But I was brought up to believe trust and a hand shake would get me through life. Today you can't trust the cat. He may be hiding a secret weapon. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > To update an old adage, "it is better not to key in anything and be > thought a fool than it is to key in something and remove all doubt" > > I think he achieved the latter quite well. > > John Hagen > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> wrote: > > > > > John, > > That's exactly why I asked. The guy even put down the wrong > casting > > numbers. Then shows the photo of them. Did he do it just to throw > > people off? Or is honestly dumb? > > > > Bill > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2749	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 might bring?  (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the NMRA Howell Day Museum.) ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@gvtc. com> wrote: How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on "HO". 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id be tempted to go $25.00. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2750	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1

 Possibly Lindsay?  They had some early ALCo locos in HO--I think that Kemtron and then Hobbytown marketed the FA ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery PA1 Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney Hudson parts. Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting?? It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts. I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose since there are no other open regions in the casting. ? Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney  Hudson parts. Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting? It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts.  I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose  since there are no other open regions in the casting. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2751	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

See  120087209321  It is a Mantua Busy Bee going for $39.00.(current bid as of just now) I feel tempted to try for that one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Wobbly913 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 might bring?  (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the NMRA Howell Day Museum.) ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@gvtc. com> wrote: How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on "HO". 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id be tempted to go $25.00. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2752	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk

 Several early imports had the road name and number etched in relief on them.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 8:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Mohawk Here's a mystery HO Mohawk I got a long with the Varney Hudson parts....... It is mostly etched brass with white metal lead and trailing trucks. The etchings include the road name and the cab numbers The only brand name I can find is on the bottom of the cast lead truck, 'Varney'. I suspect this lead truck is? a stock Varney replacement part, or the original from the Varney Hudson that was part of the same estate. Perhaps the etched brass Mohawk is of the same era as the Varney streamliined Hudson, making this quite an old imported Mohawk. I may have read about this one a very long time ago where it's distinctive build was discussed. Is this familiar to anyone??? Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA Here's a mystery HO Mohawk I got a long with the Varney Hudson  parts....... It is mostly etched brass with white metal lead and trailing trucks.  The etchings include the road name and the cab numbers The only brand name I can find is on the bottom of the cast lead  truck, 'Varney'. I suspect this lead truck is  a stock Varney replacement part, or the  original from the Varney Hudson that was part of the same estate. Perhaps the etched brass Mohawk is of the same era as the Varney  streamliined Hudson, making this quite an old imported Mohawk. I may have read about this one a very long time ago where it's  distinctive build was discussed. Is this familiar to anyone???   Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2753	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1

if so, somewhere along the line they retooled with a die cast shell.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery PA1 I think the Lindsey also came to be the HobbyTown of Boston PA body........ .. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 17, 2007, at 10:21 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: Lindsay did have a PA-1, which I believe was later also made by Kemtron.   Don ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz Mike I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells. I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2754	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"

I remember seeing some SP AC-10 cab forwards etched like that--possibly also an SP 0-6-0 switcher. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Dst8596587@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara" The engine was produced in 1953 by Imperial and had the etchings as described. In 1954 an ATSF hudson with etched roadname and numerals was also produced. The engine is a 4-8-4 NYC Niagra.   Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2755	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Let's go a tad off subject here, one letter off in fact. I'm talking some "vintageO". Seweral years ago I purchased a 1950 era unbuilt Thomas "O" scale 0-4-0 kit. Original box (a bit tatty) and all. Even had a note in it explaining that they were out of generator castings when the kit was made and that the buyer should send the note to Thomas and they would send the casting to the buyer. It also had a complete, albeit used, valve gear included. Valve gears were optional on these just like most model steam switch engine kits of the day. I paid I thnk $50.00 for it, which had an origial price tag on it of $39.95. My plan was to build it as a superdetailed model using Mel Thornberg's (I probably didn't spell that right, I apologize but I can't find the correct way right now) multi-part scratch builing/detailing article in Model Railroader in 1950 or 51. The more I looked, the more I found I would have to do including building a new cab and tender body due to the huge cast-on rivets. The series showed how to do it but... Obvisously I never started that project and then, needing cash, put it on ebay. I think I had a starting bid of like $40 on it but it sold around $250.00. I had several photos and an honest description of it and not only did the buyer leave positive feedback on ebay but sent me an email saying how happy he was with it. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 might bring? (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the NMRA Howell Day Museum.) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > > > I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean > > Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...> wrote: > > How about the mint Mantua "Busy Bee" kit at $180 and still going???? JerryG >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2756	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

There were several iterations of that "Thomas" 0-4-0. Some had pie-plate rivets, some did not. I am looking at mine as I type this, the tender has what I would consider "normal" rivets for 2-rail "0" in that ear. I got two in a box, cut up with a hacksaw to make a 2-4-4-2, and the guy gave up. We rebuilt one to original, sold off the one with the big rivets. Filing off rivets and sanding the parts smooth, then drilling for new ones and super-glueing them in works, as does a re-paint afterwards. Mine is done up B&O, and I found a bobber to go with it, did that B&O, and run it on occasion. I have always liked the vintage stuff. I won't get into ScaleCraft right now, but I have a LOT of it. All runs just fine. My Thomas effectively models Stephenson inside valve gear, has the shaft, link and valve rods on both sides. Dave > > Let's go a tad off subject here, one letter off in fact. I'm talking > some "vintageO". Seweral years ago I purchased a 1950 era unbuilt > Thomas "O" scale 0-4-0 kit. Original box (a bit tatty) and all. Even > had a note in it explaining that they were out of generator castings > when the kit was made and that the buyer should send the note to > Thomas and they would send the casting to the buyer. It also had a > complete, albeit used, valve gear included. Valve gears were optional > on these just like most model steam switch engine kits of the day. I > paid I thnk $50.00 for it, which had an origial price tag on it of > $39.95. My plan was to build it as a superdetailed model using Mel > Thornberg's (I probably didn't spell that right, I apologize but I > can't find the correct way right now) multi-part scratch > builing/detailing article in Model Railroader in 1950 or 51. The more > I looked, the more I found I would have to do including building a > new cab and tender body due to the huge cast-on rivets. The series > showed how to do it but... Obvisously I never started that project > and then, needing cash, put it on ebay. I think I had a starting bid > of like $40 on it but it sold around $250.00. I had several photos > and an honest description of it and not only did the buyer leave > positive feedback on ebay but sent me an email saying how happy he > was with it. > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@> > wrote: > > > > based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 > might bring? (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the > NMRA Howell Day Museum.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sean naylor > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > > > > > > I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I > shocked at the price... Sean > > > > Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@> wrote: > > > > How about the mint Mantua "Busy Bee" kit at $180 and still > going???? JerryG > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2757	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/19/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

I have one of those in my "to build" shelves--also their 2-8-0.  The 0-4-0 is actually built to 17/64" scale, which makes the track gauge correct, but makes it somewhat difficult to find properly scaled parts for it. The 2-8-0 actually has a cab scaled for 1/4".   I also have an International Models B&O 0-4-0--same loco, but scaled to 1/4".  Quite a difference in size. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 7:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? Let's go a tad off subject here, one letter off in fact. I'm talking some "vintageO". Seweral years ago I purchased a 1950 era unbuilt Thomas "O" scale 0-4-0 kit. Original box (a bit tatty) and all. Even had a note in it explaining that they were out of generator castings when the kit was made and that the buyer should send the note to Thomas and they would send the casting to the buyer. It also had a complete, albeit used, valve gear included. Valve gears were optional on these just like most model steam switch engine kits of the day. I paid I thnk $50.00 for it, which had an origial price tag on it of $39.95. My plan was to build it as a superdetailed model using Mel Thornberg's (I probably didn't spell that right, I apologize but I can't find the correct way right now) multi-part scratch builing/detailing article in Model Railroader in 1950 or 51. The more I looked, the more I found I would have to do including building a new cab and tender body due to the huge cast-on rivets. The series showed how to do it but... Obvisously I never started that project and then, needing cash, put it on ebay. I think I had a starting bid of like $40 on it but it sold around $250.00. I had several photos and an honest description of it and not only did the buyer leave positive feedback on ebay but sent me an email saying how happy he was with it. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 might bring? (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the NMRA Howell Day Museum.) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > > > I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean > > Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...> wrote: > > How about the mint Mantua "Busy Bee" kit at $180 and still going???? JerryG >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2758	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Well at $39.00 I was going to bid on this, but now at $105.00 it is past my budget for one of those.  Maybe next time.   Wobbly913 Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: See  120087209321  It is a Mantua Busy Bee going for $39.00.(current bid as of just now) I feel tempted to try for that one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Wobbly913 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 might bring?  (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the NMRA Howell Day Museum.) ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@gvtc. com> wrote: How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on "HO". 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id be tempted to go $25.00. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2759	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

I picked up mine..(although not complete... I need the smoke box cover... and drive rods) for about $45... It was with a handfull of other small detail things.. It was all in pieces and I did not even know what it was... It took this group to tell me..  Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: Well at $39.00 I was going to bid on this, but now at $105.00 it is past my budget for one of those.  Maybe next time.   Wobbly913 Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote: See  120087209321  It is a Mantua Busy Bee going for $39.00.(current bid as of just now) I feel tempted to try for that one!!!!!!!!! !!!!!   Wobbly913 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 might bring?  (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the NMRA Howell Day Museum.) ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@gvtc. com> wrote: How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on "HO". 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id be tempted to go $25.00. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2760	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Dear Group,   I downloaded the eBay photos and such on a Mantua "Busy Bee" which I never saw before. I saw similarities between it and its successor-the "Booster". Then came an 0-6-0T version. I think one of these belongs, unpainted, in the NMRA Museum. It is most worthy. Hold up in a private collection, I think the price I see noted here is too much. It heralds memories of times and people who dreamed of what many shoot for still today and have the technology to accomplish far easier than back then. It is history in the finer sense of the word.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: Well at $39.00 I was going to bid on this, but now at $105.00 it is past my budget for one of those.  Maybe next time.   Wobbly913 Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote: See  120087209321  It is a Mantua Busy Bee going for $39.00.(current bid as of just now) I feel tempted to try for that one!!!!!!!!! !!!!!   Wobbly913 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 might bring?  (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the NMRA Howell Day Museum.) ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@gvtc. com> wrote: How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on "HO". 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id be tempted to go $25.00. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2761	From: erieberk	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Hi John, Noticed your post of a few days ago and just thought you might be interested to know that the earliest I can document the introduction of Mantua's "The General", in my library of catalogs and brochures is October, 1951. None of my catalogs of 1930 or 1940 has any mention of it. Regards, Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > I think you will find the model manifestation of the "General" came on the heels of the Walt Disney movie, starring Fess Parker, of "The Great Locomotive Chase". That was made in the mid-1950's. I would be interested in seeing any catalog info on Mantua of the 1930's or 1940's, if any exists. Seriously, from just a historic perspective. > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) > > takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote: > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2762	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Ray, I think your information is likely right on. I am quite positive that the Mantua General was around before the movie came out. This is from my sometimes tricky memory, but that seems to affect much more current events (now where did I put the &*$# glue) than things from long ago. I was the consummate Mantua nut in the 50's and really wanted a model of the General back then. I also remember watching with much interest the making of the movie on the Disney TV program (talk about tooting one's own horn) and waiting with bated breath for the movie to finally come out. And I also remember going to see it with my parents (a real family thing, oh for the good ol' days). John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Hi John, Noticed your post of a few days ago and just thought you > might be interested to know that the earliest I can document the > introduction of Mantua's "The General", in my library of catalogs and > brochures is October, 1951. None of my catalogs of 1930 or 1940 has > any mention of it. Regards, Ray Wetzel > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > > > Dear Group, > > > > I think you will find the model manifestation of the "General" > came on the heels of the Walt Disney movie, starring Fess Parker, > of "The Great Locomotive Chase". That was made in the mid-1950's. I > would be interested in seeing any catalog info on Mantua of the > 1930's or 1940's, if any exists. Seriously, from just a historic > perspective. > > > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@) > > > > takefive247 <takefive@> wrote: > > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? > 160086805309 > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2763	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Dear Erieberk,   Well....which came first..."the chicken or the egg?"  I'm referring to the model vis-a-vis the Disney movie of that time frame. Did the model inspire the movie? Crazier things have happened. Almost twenty years ago an action figure toy inspired a movie. Remember a little remembered movie called "He-Man" with Dolph Longren (Sweden) as the star? That was circa 1988. Now we have Marvel Comics "graphic novels" on screens in movie theaters...not dull.  "Busy Bee" in cinematic form-a stretch-granted.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)       erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: Hi John, Noticed your post of a few days ago and just thought you might be interested to know that the earliest I can document the introduction of Mantua's "The General", in my library of catalogs and brochures is October, 1951. None of my catalogs of 1930 or 1940 has any mention of it. Regards, Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > I think you will find the model manifestation of the "General" came on the heels of the Walt Disney movie, starring Fess Parker, of "The Great Locomotive Chase". That was made in the mid-1950's. I would be interested in seeing any catalog info on Mantua of the 1930's or 1940's, if any exists. Seriously, from just a historic perspective. > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@ ...) > > takefive247 <takefive@.. .> wrote: > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2764	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua? And a Weird Question...

Dear Mr. Wetzel,   A weird question: "Did you ever teach at the Air Force's Air Intelligence Training Center at Lowry Air Force Base, Denver, Colorado, in the late-1960's?" If you were an enlisted man who gained an Air Force commission...you were one of my instructors. My apologies if not, but one of my instructors was Captain Ray Wetzel, USAF. Let me know off line either way.   John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...) erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: Hi John, Noticed your post of a few days ago and just thought you might be interested to know that the earliest I can document the introduction of Mantua's "The General", in my library of catalogs and brochures is October, 1951. None of my catalogs of 1930 or 1940 has any mention of it. Regards, Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > I think you will find the model manifestation of the "General" came on the heels of the Walt Disney movie, starring Fess Parker, of "The Great Locomotive Chase". That was made in the mid-1950's. I would be interested in seeing any catalog info on Mantua of the 1930's or 1940's, if any exists. Seriously, from just a historic perspective. > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@ ...) > > takefive247 <takefive@.. .> wrote: > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2765	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Can't say that the model didn't inspire the movie. Walt Disney being a rail fan and modeler and all it could very well of happened that way. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Dear Erieberk, > > Well....which came first..."the chicken or the egg?" I'm referring to the model vis-a-vis the Disney movie of that time frame. Did the model inspire the movie? Crazier things have happened. Almost twenty years ago an action figure toy inspired a movie. Remember a little remembered movie called "He-Man" with Dolph Longren (Sweden) as the star? That was circa 1988. Now we have Marvel Comics "graphic novels" on screens in movie theaters...not dull. "Busy Bee" in cinematic form-a stretch-granted. > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) > > > > > > erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: > Hi John, Noticed your post of a few days ago and just thought you > might be interested to know that the earliest I can document the > introduction of Mantua's "The General", in my library of catalogs and > brochures is October, 1951. None of my catalogs of 1930 or 1940 has > any mention of it. Regards, Ray Wetzel > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > > > Dear Group, > > > > I think you will find the model manifestation of the "General" > came on the heels of the Walt Disney movie, starring Fess Parker, > of "The Great Locomotive Chase". That was made in the mid-1950's. I > would be interested in seeing any catalog info on Mantua of the > 1930's or 1940's, if any exists. Seriously, from just a historic > perspective. > > > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@) > > > > takefive247 <takefive@> wrote: > > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? > 160086805309 > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2766	From: Neal Rammacher	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

There was a version of the same movie in the 20's starring Buster Keaton-way before any of this stuff.   Neal and the gang ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? Ray, I think your information is likely right on. I am quite positive that the Mantua General was around before the movie came out. This is from my sometimes tricky memory, but that seems to affect much more current events (now where did I put the &*$# glue) than things from long ago. I was the consummate Mantua nut in the 50's and really wanted a model of the General back then. I also remember watching with much interest the making of the movie on the Disney TV program (talk about tooting one's own horn) and waiting with bated breath for the movie to finally come out. And I also remember going to see it with my parents (a real family thing, oh for the good ol' days). John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@.. .> wrote: > > Hi John, Noticed your post of a few days ago and just thought you > might be interested to know that the earliest I can document the > introduction of Mantua's "The General", in my library of catalogs and > brochures is October, 1951. None of my catalogs of 1930 or 1940 has > any mention of it. Regards, Ray Wetzel > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Group, > > > > I think you will find the model manifestation of the "General" > came on the heels of the Walt Disney movie, starring Fess Parker, > of "The Great Locomotive Chase". That was made in the mid-1950's. I > would be interested in seeing any catalog info on Mantua of the > 1930's or 1940's, if any exists. Seriously, from just a historic > perspective. > > > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@ ) > > > > takefive247 <takefive@> wrote: > > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? > 160086805309 > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2767	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

I have a copy of that. It is very funny. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Neal Rammacher" <nealrammacher@...> wrote: > > There was a version of the same movie in the 20's starring Buster Keaton-way before any of this stuff. > > Neal and the gang > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Hagen > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:36 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? > > > Ray, I think your information is likely right on. I am quite positive > that the Mantua General was around before the movie came out. This is > from my sometimes tricky memory, but that seems to affect much more > current events (now where did I put the &*$# glue) than things from > long ago. I was the consummate Mantua nut in the 50's and really > wanted a model of the General back then. I also remember watching > with much interest the making of the movie on the Disney TV program > (talk about tooting one's own horn) and waiting with bated breath for > the movie to finally come out. And I also remember going to see it > with my parents (a real family thing, oh for the good ol' days). > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2768	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Model Railroader

I am fifteen issues away from a complete set of Model Railroader--and I'm sure that there are others out there doing the same.  My list of needs and surpluses for yours--off list--   Glenn Joesten  glenn476@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2769	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Was this cast in USA?

I've got a pair of these. I know what they would have been  completed as......... I'll point out that there is a 'RR' cast in place in the front number board. I had thought they were totally made in Europe. When I stumbled across the two pairs of Undecorated shells; I was quite surprised. I just don't see how these undec's would have been imported.......... Were they actually made somewhere in the US? There are no maker logos anywhere on the castings. Has anyone heard anything on this???

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2770	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?

 The only one I knew of was the Rivarossi one, ca. late 1950's.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 5:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Was this cast in USA? I've got a pair of these. I know what they would have been� completed as......... I'll point out that there is a 'RR' cast in place in the front number board. I had thought they were totally made in Europe. When I stumbled across the two pairs of Undecorated shells; I was quite surprised. I just don't see how these undec's would have been imported.......... Were they�actually made somewhere in the US? There are no maker logos anywhere on the castings. Has anyone heard anything�on this??? � Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA I've got a pair of these. I know what they would have been  completed as......... I'll point out that there is a 'RR' cast in place in the front number  board. I had thought they were totally made in Europe. When I stumbled  across the two pairs of Undecorated shells; I was quite surprised. I just don't see how these undec's would have been imported.......... Were they actually made somewhere in the US? There are no maker logos  anywhere on the castings. Has anyone heard anything on this???    Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2771	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:07 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? >I have a copy of that. It is very funny. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Neal Rammacher" > <nealrammacher@...> wrote: >> >> There was a version of the same movie in the 20's starring Buster > Keaton-way before any of this stuff. >> >> Neal and the gang We're drifting seriously off topic here, but has anyone else seen the original 1934 version of "Silver Streak" starrinf the original Burlington "Pioneer Zephyr"? Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2772	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?

I wonder if the shells were actually made over here, and shipped to them.........   Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 21, 2007, at 6:01 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: The only one I knew of was the Rivarossi one, ca. late 1950's.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2773	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Got the tape....... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 21, 2007, at 5:59 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hagen" > >> I have a copy of that. It is very funny. >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Neal Rammacher" >> <nealrammacher@...> wrote: >>> >>> There was a version of the same movie in the 20's starring Buster >> Keaton-way before any of this stuff. >>> >>> Neal and the gang > > We're drifting seriously off topic here, but has anyone else seen the > original 1934 version of "Silver Streak" starrinf the original > Burlington > "Pioneer Zephyr"?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2774	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

I do not recall six-coupled switchers in the "composite" construction format.  I think that the "Big Six" and "Little Six" were into the die-cast era.  And yes, it would be preferable to have examples of these items displayed unpainted so that the type of construction can be seen. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? Dear Group,   I downloaded the eBay photos and such on a Mantua "Busy Bee" which I never saw before. I saw similarities between it and its successor-the "Booster". Then came an 0-6-0T version. I think one of these belongs, unpainted, in the NMRA Museum. It is most worthy. Hold up in a private collection, I think the price I see noted here is too much. It heralds memories of times and people who dreamed of what many shoot for still today and have the technology to accomplish far easier than back then. It is history in the finer sense of the word.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote: Well at $39.00 I was going to bid on this, but now at $105.00 it is past my budget for one of those.  Maybe next time.   Wobbly913 Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote: See  120087209321  It is a Mantua Busy Bee going for $39.00.(current bid as of just now) I feel tempted to try for that one!!!!!!!!! !!!!!   Wobbly913 Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 might bring?  (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the NMRA Howell Day Museum.) ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@gvtc. com> wrote: How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? ----- Original Message ----- From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua? > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309 > Bill I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on "HO". 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id be tempted to go $25.00. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2775	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?

Attachments : Looks familiar..... I have a black one, apparenty moulded of Bakelite. The distinguishing characteristic is the round area in the wing on the nose. As I recall, there are two initials cast in there, not the typical Hiawatha single digit numeral. I do not remember how or where I acquired mine (shell casting only) unpainted.... but this one sure looks like what I have. Now where did I put it? Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2776	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Yes--it is available in DVD from Historic Rail. ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@yahoo. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:07 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? >I have a copy of that. It is very funny. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Neal Rammacher" > <nealrammacher@ ...> wrote: >> >> There was a version of the same movie in the 20's starring Buster > Keaton-way before any of this stuff. >> >> Neal and the gang We're drifting seriously off topic here, but has anyone else seen the original 1934 version of "Silver Streak" starrinf the original Burlington "Pioneer Zephyr"? Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2777	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > We're drifting seriously off topic here, but has anyone else seen the > original 1934 version of "Silver Streak" starrinf the original Burlington > "Pioneer Zephyr"? > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2778	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Oops, hot the wrong key. Anyway, I did see the original Silver Streak on one of the movie channels back a few years. Wish I could of taped it. It's amazing the pr job the Burlington did for that train. In 1934 it already starred in a movie. But that how the railroads did things back then. Look at how soon Lionel had a Hiawatha model on the market. The Milwaukee msut have suppled drawings or blueprints to them. John Hagen -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > We're drifting seriously off topic here, but has anyone else seen the > original 1934 version of "Silver Streak" starrinf the original Burlington > "Pioneer Zephyr"? > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2779	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?

I found mine at a local Milwaukee swap meet a few years ago. Now just how in the world did three of them turn up in the same neighborhood? This is a 50's Rivarossi steamer body....... I'd better understand one or two of the decorated ones being around from damaged or partly scrapped old models. But three of the undec's of a European company's product ??? Mine look like they were just pulled from the models and set aside without any further work on it [them]. You can see where the screws would have been drilled and tapped in the next steps. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 21, 2007, at 6:59 PM, DLeistikow@... wrote: Looks familiar..... I have a black one, apparenty moulded of Bakelite. The distinguishing characteristic is the round area in the wing on the nose.  As I recall, there are two initials cast in there, not the typical Hiawatha single digit numeral.         I do not remember how or where I acquired mine (shell casting only) unpainted.... but this one sure looks like what I have.                                               Now where did I put it?                              Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2780	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Don D and list: Yes, I have seen the 1934 version of Silver Streak, some time ago. Am not sure but, I think that I have taped that. Must look around to see if I have it. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2781	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Lionel also had the UP M-10000 then--the Hiawatha used modified UP cars--and they had a "Flying Yankee" which was the "Eastern" Zephyr. Back then, they got subsidies from the full-size RR's to produce the models. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? Oops, hot the wrong key. Anyway, I did see the original Silver Streak on one of the movie channels back a few years. Wish I could of taped it. It's amazing the pr job the Burlington did for that train. In 1934 it already starred in a movie. But that how the railroads did things back then. Look at how soon Lionel had a Hiawatha model on the market. The Milwaukee msut have suppled drawings or blueprints to them. John Hagen -- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > > > We're drifting seriously off topic here, but has anyone else seen the > original 1934 version of "Silver Streak" starrinf the original Burlington > "Pioneer Zephyr"? > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2782	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)

If you find it and have facilities(i.e. two working VCR's), I am sure that more than few listees would be interested.   Fred Hultberg, resident etching wizard, Fotocut     DLeistikow@... wrote: Don D and list: Yes, I have seen the 1934 version of Silver Streak, some time ago. Am not sure but, I think that I have taped that. Must look around to see if I have it. Don L. No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2783	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)

Attachments : Fred H and list: Good idea.... taping copies for interested parties. Looks like I shall have to begin looking in earnest. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2784	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)

Not be a stick in the mud, but isn't there a PROBLEM with copyright infringement by copying for others??? Loren _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more�.then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2785	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)

Only if it's done for profit.   If he gets the cost of the tape and postage, he should be OK.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Not be a stick in the mud, but isn't there a PROBLEM with copyright infringement by copying for others??? Loren _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more .then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2786	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930

It isn't my intention to add to what may be an off topic discussion, but it is not correct avoiding profit translates to avoiding copyright infringement.  An exception is if the copyright holder gives special permission to you, or gives general permission to make copies for certain purposes.  (What we often see in model railroad magazines to the effect "copies may be made for personal use only" is an example of this.)   There is a reason for this.  Plaintiff's attorney will argue "'but for' the copies you distributed, the recipient would have likely purchased the material and my client was therefore denied the sale and was financially harmed".    There are also certain "fair use" exceptions.  But lack of profit is not one of them.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Hultberg To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?) Only if it's done for profit.   If he gets the cost of the tape and postage, he should be OK.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote: Not be a stick in the mud, but isn't there a PROBLEM with copyright infringement by copying for others??? Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more .then map the best route! http://maps. live.com/ ?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2787	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi

A side topic on the Mantua thing, but I look at those things before a VHS or DVD movie shows that use a phrase that (included) prohibits "other distribution." Maybe that is well covered below by Mr. Kinzer.   There is talk that today some resin kits are copies of older brass pieces, used to make molds...and done without permission. The kicker there, as I see it, is if the brass importer of yore is out of business and/or dead or both. Who'se going to sue-all the brass dealers?   The imagery piracy thing began when VHS-Beta were new and people wanted to record a missed TV show. Beta is gone-VHS is in museums (replaced by DVD)-so what's the issue on tape? I see Mr. Kinzer's point, but technology may have made some law's obsolete if certian technology is employed.   John   "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote: It isn't my intention to add to what may be an off topic discussion, but it is not correct avoiding profit translates to avoiding copyright infringement.  An exception is if the copyright holder gives special permission to you, or gives general permission to make copies for certain purposes.  (What we often see in model railroad magazines to the effect "copies may be made for personal use only" is an example of this.)   There is a reason for this.  Plaintiff's attorney will argue "'but for' the copies you distributed, the recipient would have likely purchased the material and my client was therefore denied the sale and was financially harmed".    There are also certain "fair use" exceptions.  But lack of profit is not one of them.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Hultberg To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?) Only if it's done for profit.   If he gets the cost of the tape and postage, he should be OK.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote: Not be a stick in the mud, but isn't there a PROBLEM with copyright infringement by copying for others??? Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more .then map the best route! http://maps. live.com/ ?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2788	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi

Being sued is something I don't picture as a fun time. And tghere are people out there that sue just for the h*@l of and maybe they get lucky. I have known several attorneys in my not-to-short life and for the most part they are people who work hard and try to do the right thing. Than why all the lawyer jokes? A few bad apples spoil the barrel. There are attorneys with too much time on their hands (probably aren't all that good) that will take on such cases and hang on to it for dear life hoping for a settlement. WOrse yet are the "human rights" guys. If they win a case, they can then bill for all their time they spend on a case AND collect! So the more time they spennd fighting for a win, the better for them. It just isn't worth the risk to bend the rules and assume you're ok these days. Yeah, I know most of you guys (not me of course) have done some form of Copyright infringement in your lives, but you do not go on the web and advertise the fact. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > A side topic on the Mantua thing, but I look at those things before a VHS or DVD movie shows that use a phrase that (included) prohibits "other distribution." Maybe that is well covered below by Mr. Kinzer. > > There is talk that today some resin kits are copies of older brass pieces, used to make molds...and done without permission. The kicker there, as I see it, is if the brass importer of yore is out of business and/or dead or both. Who'se going to sue-all the brass dealers? > > The imagery piracy thing began when VHS-Beta were new and people wanted to record a missed TV show. Beta is gone-VHS is in museums (replaced by DVD)-so what's the issue on tape? I see Mr. Kinzer's point, but technology may have made some law's obsolete if certian technology is employed. > > John > > "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote: > It isn't my intention to add to what may be an off topic discussion, but it is not correct avoiding profit translates to avoiding copyright infringement. An exception is if the copyright holder gives special permission to you, or gives general permission to make copies for certain purposes. (What we often see in model railroad magazines to the effect "copies may be made for personal use only" is an example of this.) > > There is a reason for this. Plaintiff's attorney will argue "'but for' the copies you distributed, the recipient would have likely purchased the material and my client was therefore denied the sale and was financially harmed". > > There are also certain "fair use" exceptions. But lack of profit is not one of them. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fred Hultberg > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:16 AM > Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?) > > > Only if it's done for profit. > > If he gets the cost of the tape and postage, he should be OK. > > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) > > Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: > Not be a stick in the mud, but isn't there a PROBLEM with copyright > infringement > by copying for others??? > > Loren > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more .then map the best route! > http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. Links > > > > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a PS3 game guru. > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2789	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Moderator pronouncement ( was RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silve

It very well may be.  I have seen this exact same discussion on too many lists too many times.  I'm afraid I have to put on my moderator hat and declare any further discussion of copying or copyright off topic.  If someone wants to "make a deal" please do it off list.   Discussing the film is OK.  Copying isn't.   Don     Don Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Not be a stick in the mud, but isn't there a PROBLEM with copyright infringement by copying for others??? Loren _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more .then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2790	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Moderator pronouncement ( was RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silve

It very well may be.  I have seen this exact same discussion on too many lists too many times.  I'm afraid I have to put on my moderator hat and declare any further discussion of copying or copyright off topic.  If someone wants to "make a deal" please do it off list.   Discussing the film is OK.  Copying isn't.   Don     Don Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Not be a stick in the mud, but isn't there a PROBLEM with copyright infringement by copying for others??? Loren _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more .then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2791	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

John Hagen wrote: > Ray, I think your information is likely right on. I am quite positive > that the Mantua General was around before the movie came out. This is > from my sometimes tricky memory, but that seems to affect much more > current events (now where did I put the &*$# glue) than things from > long ago. I was the consummate Mantua nut in the 50's and really > wanted a model of the General back then. I also remember watching > with much interest the making of the movie on the Disney TV program > (talk about tooting one's own horn) and waiting with bated breath for > the movie to finally come out. And I also remember going to see it > with my parents (a real family thing, oh for the good ol' days). Would be nice to have that movie on DVD. A few years ago I watched it when I noticed it on the schedule for the Disney Channel. -- Rick Jones Remove the Extra Dot to e-mail me The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ "Going to L.A. Gonna be the big, white, hooter hunter." -Al Bundy, "Married With Children"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2792	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: Moderator pronouncement

Sorry, Don. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. Bad idea expressed poorly and in the wrong place - my fault!   Actually, I joined this group because I have a few really old pieces and was hoping to get some idea of pricing before selling.   No list - I am not that organized...   Fred Hultberg(resident etcing wizard, Fotocut)     Donald Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: It very well may be.  I have seen this exact same discussion on too many lists too many times.  I'm afraid I have to put on my moderator hat and declare any further discussion of copying or copyright off topic.  If someone wants to "make a deal" please do it off list.   Discussing the film is OK.  Copying isn't.   Don Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2793	From: Neal Rammacher	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

BTW If anyone wants to see the General ,I believe it's at the RR station in Chatanooga.   The Pioneer is at the Museum of Science and Industry on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago.   neal and the gang ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Jones To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? John Hagen wrote: > Ray, I think your information is likely right on. I am quite positive > that the Mantua General was around before the movie came out. This is > from my sometimes tricky memory, but that seems to affect much more > current events (now where did I put the &*$# glue) than things from > long ago. I was the consummate Mantua nut in the 50's and really > wanted a model of the General back then. I also remember watching > with much interest the making of the movie on the Disney TV program > (talk about tooting one's own horn) and waiting with bated breath for > the movie to finally come out. And I also remember going to see it > with my parents (a real family thing, oh for the good ol' days). Would be nice to have that movie on DVD. A few years ago I watched it when I noticed it on the schedule for the Disney Channel. -- Rick Jones Remove the Extra Dot to e-mail me The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocitie s.com/seventysix inchesoffun/ "Going to L.A. Gonna be the big, white, hooter hunter." -Al Bundy, "Married With Children"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2794	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)

Yup, you're right. I have the film on VHS as well. I'll convert it into DVD sometime this year....... But as a personal copy for my video library. Not to chide anyone on this. But I sure don't want to get into the realm of video pirate by making copies. The film is available in both VHS and DVD for anyone that wants to buy a commercial copy from the usual dealers. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 22, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Salt&Pepper Whoknows wrote: > Not be a stick in the mud, but isn't there a PROBLEM with copyright > infringement > by copying for others???

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2795	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: Moderator pronouncement

I wasn't singling you out, I only replied to your post because it was the first one, and I wanted to nip the thread in the bud. Thanks Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Hultberg To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 11:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Moderator pronouncement Sorry, Don. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. Bad idea expressed poorly and in the wrong place - my fault! Actually, I joined this group because I have a few really old pieces and was hoping to get some idea of pricing before selling. No list - I am not that organized... Fred Hultberg(resident etcing wizard, Fotocut)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2796	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Fwd: Re: HO-811 Power Truck

Attachments : For those who may find this information, of interest. I forgot to ask for the scale wheel size otherwise, this is the information that should accompany model railroad products advertisements. See the forwarding, below...... Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2797	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi

John Barlow wrote: > *There is talk that today some resin kits are copies of older brass > pieces, used to make molds...and done without permission. The kicker > there, as I see it, is if the brass importer of yore is out of business > and/or dead or both. Who'se going to sue-all the brass dealers?* IANAL, but I don't believe that models are subject to copyright laws. They *might*, however, be covered under patent law, if the manufacturer submitted such paperwork. Once a patent expires, however, it's pretty much a free for all as I understand it. Would love to see someone else reproduce all of Central Valley's line of trucks, since I believe the patents on those are no longer in force. I want some Fox trucks and some of the passenger trucks. The ones on eBay go for much more than I'd like to spend. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ "Is a bear Catholic?" -Kelly Bundy, "Married With Children"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2798	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: Moderator pronouncement

Don, I didn't take it that way at all. You did the right thing.   I didn't feel singled out - I knew why. (lol) No problem. "My bad," OK?   Fred Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: I wasn't singling you out, I only replied to your post because it was the first one, and I wanted to nip the thread in the bud. Thanks Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Hultberg To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 11:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Moderator pronouncement Sorry, Don. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. Bad idea expressed poorly and in the wrong place - my fault! Actually, I joined this group because I have a few really old pieces and was hoping to get some idea of pricing before selling. No list - I am not that organized... Fred Hultberg(resident etcing wizard, Fotocut) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0It09A/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/GaCslB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2799	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi

Regarding Central Valley's trucks, there is an interesting story around that. The owner of the trucks is still alive, the last I heard, but refuses to make them or sell the rights to them. Check out CC Crowe's web site and the particular story: http://www.cccrow.com/how-2/brass.html#three When I first found CC's web site, I spent days reading it. CC is a really great guy and is a true modeler's friend. Regarding the article, we believe it is essentially, Model Railroader magazine who is at fault why we no longer have Central Valley trucks. I doubt Model Railroader meant for that to happen. Check it out. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying??? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:48:06 -0600 John Barlow wrote: > *There is talk that today some resin kits are copies of older brass > pieces, used to make molds...and done without permission. The kicker > there, as I see it, is if the brass importer of yore is out of business > and/or dead or both. Who'se going to sue-all the brass dealers?* IANAL, but I don't believe that models are subject to copyright laws. They *might*, however, be covered under patent law, if the manufacturer submitted such paperwork. Once a patent expires, however, it's pretty much a free for all as I understand it. Would love to see someone else reproduce all of Central Valley's line of trucks, since I believe the patents on those are no longer in force. I want some Fox trucks and some of the passenger trucks. The ones on eBay go for much more than I'd like to spend. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ "Is a bear Catholic?" -Kelly Bundy, "Married With Children" _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2800	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)

certainly seems that way to me--especially since the DVD IS available. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:58 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?) > Not be a stick in the mud, but isn't there a PROBLEM with copyright > infringement > by copying for others??? > > Loren > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more..then map the best > route! > http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. > Links > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2801	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi

I was chatting with the Central Valley fellow at a train show awhile back. He indicated they had plans to make some of the trucks again. Haven't seen them yet, though. Chuck Kinzer Quoting Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...>: > John Barlow wrote: >> *There is talk that today some resin kits are copies of older brass >> pieces, used to make molds...and done without permission. The kicker >> there, as I see it, is if the brass importer of yore is out of business >> and/or dead or both. Who'se going to sue-all the brass dealers?* > > IANAL, but I don't believe that models are subject to copyright > laws. They *might*, however, be covered under patent law, if the > manufacturer submitted such paperwork. Once a patent expires, however, > it's pretty much a free for all as I understand it. > Would love to see someone else reproduce all of Central Valley's > line of trucks, since I believe the patents on those are no longer in > force. I want some Fox trucks and some of the passenger trucks. The ones > on eBay go for much more than I'd like to spend. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ > > "Is a bear Catholic?" > -Kelly Bundy, "Married With Children" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2802	From: ourbaja	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

Added 2 pics of engine at the Old depot RR station in Chattanooga Tennessee. Is this the 1 you were talking about? Art in Michigan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Neal Rammacher" <nealrammacher@...> wrote: > > BTW If anyone wants to see the General ,I believe it's at the RR station in Chatanooga. > > The Pioneer is at the Museum of Science and Industry on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago. > > neal and the gang > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rick Jones > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 11:15 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? > > > John Hagen wrote: > > Ray, I think your information is likely right on. I am quite positive > > that the Mantua General was around before the movie came out. This is > > from my sometimes tricky memory, but that seems to affect much more > > current events (now where did I put the &*$# glue) than things from > > long ago. I was the consummate Mantua nut in the 50's and really > > wanted a model of the General back then. I also remember watching > > with much interest the making of the movie on the Disney TV program > > (talk about tooting one's own horn) and waiting with bated breath for > > the movie to finally come out. And I also remember going to see it > > with my parents (a real family thing, oh for the good ol' days). > > Would be nice to have that movie on DVD. A few years ago I watched > it when I noticed it on the schedule for the Disney Channel. > > -- > > Rick Jones > Remove the Extra Dot to e-mail me > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ > > "Going to L.A. Gonna be the big, white, hooter hunter." > -Al Bundy, "Married With Children" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2803	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

----- Original Message ----- From: "ourbaja" <ourbaja@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:15 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua? > Added 2 pics of engine at the Old depot RR station in Chattanooga > Tennessee. Is this the 1 you were talking about? > > Art in Michigan > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Neal Rammacher" > <nealrammacher@...> wrote: >> >> BTW If anyone wants to see the General ,I believe it's at the RR > station in Chatanooga. >> >> The Pioneer is at the Museum of Science and Industry on Lake Shore > Drive in Chicago. >> >> neal and the gang No. The Chattanooga locomotive appears in the pics to be a 2-6-0, the General was a 4-4-0 Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2804	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi

ckinzer@... wrote: > I was chatting with the Central Valley fellow at a train show awhile > back. He indicated they had plans to make some of the trucks again. > Haven't seen them yet, though. I was about...uhmmm...5-6 years ago that, in a moment of madness, I drove from where I lived in SoCal up to Oceano where CV is currently located and found them. I had some bit of cash in the bank from closing out my mother's estate. I thought perhaps I might convince him to sell me the molds for the lines of trucks and the old-timer kits that they used to make. No deal, of course, on either of them. He said if he did decide to sell, Kadee had first crack at them. I have absolutely *NO* experience in casting, but I thought if I had the molds I might find a foundry to handle that on a contract basis, then I'd take care of assembly and selling them. I talked with the fellow for some time. He showed me his layout there in the factory and gave me a look at the turnout kits that were close to going into production. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ "I really like the oldies - See Me, Feel Me, Touch Me, Marry Me, Kill Me..." -Al Bundy, "Married With Children"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2805	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)

Don't bet on that point........ I've seen lawyers debate this on-line several times over the years. This is piracy, per them. I suppose a single copy for a friend would be much more permissible than a few for friends. But I sure wouldn't consider more than that one single copy for any reason. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 22, 2007, at 9:16 AM, Fred Hultberg wrote: Only if it's done for profit.   If he gets the cost of the tape and postage, he should be OK.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Not be a stick in the mud, but isn't there a PROBLEM with copyright infringement by copying for others??? Loren

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2806	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Moderators Don et al:   I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum?   retiredgrouch Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2807	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

What is the Mike?   If it is ok with everyone else.. if it is something I do not already have.. I would be interested... Sean Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> wrote: Moderators Don et al:   I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum?   retiredgrouch Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2808	From: Imp Ster	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???

thanks all for the CV stories. turnout kits, eh? i wonder if he found and took my rants about milled points and metal guard rails to heart. die cast frogs would be nice too, but ya cant have everything... esp in code 83. as for the trucks, i have enough few samples t o get by on, but all i'm waiting for is the 6-wheel Buckeye. (Timken roller bearings if you please sah) somebody came out with a brass Buckeye that is sadly lacking in the finesse dept. (which is odd considering the $49.95 price tag.) nobody ever wants to part with the molds. i guess i will just have to pirate them myself in zinc as they need to be for mass production / dist at reasonable prices. ... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > ckinzer@... wrote: > > I was chatting with the Central Valley fellow at a train show awhile > > back. He indicated they had plans to make some of the trucks again. > > Haven't seen them yet, though. > > I was about...uhmmm...5-6 years ago that, in a moment of madness, I > drove from where I lived in SoCal up to Oceano where CV is currently > located and found them. I had some bit of cash in the bank from closing > out my mother's estate. I thought perhaps I might convince him to sell > me the molds for the lines of trucks and the old-timer kits that they > used to make. No deal, of course, on either of them. He said if he did > decide to sell, Kadee had first crack at them. I have absolutely *NO* > experience in casting, but I thought if I had the molds I might find a > foundry to handle that on a contract basis, then I'd take care of > assembly and selling them. > I talked with the fellow for some time. He showed me his layout > there in the factory and gave me a look at the turnout kits that were > close to going into production. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ > > "I really like the oldies - See Me, Feel Me, Touch Me, Marry Me, Kill > Me..." > -Al Bundy, "Married With Children" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2809	From: Imp Ster	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???

thanks all for the CV stories. turnout kits, eh? i wonder if he found and took my rants about milled points and metal guard rails to heart. die cast frogs would be nice too, but ya cant have everything... esp in code 83. as for the trucks, i have enough few samples t o get by on, but all i'm waiting for is the 6-wheel Buckeye. (Timken roller bearings if you please sah) somebody came out with a brass Buckeye that is sadly lacking in the finesse dept. (which is odd considering the $49.95 price tag.) nobody ever wants to part with the molds. i guess i will just have to pirate them myself in zinc as they need to be for mass production / dist at reasonable prices. ... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > ckinzer@... wrote: > > I was chatting with the Central Valley fellow at a train show awhile > > back. He indicated they had plans to make some of the trucks again. > > Haven't seen them yet, though. > > I was about...uhmmm...5-6 years ago that, in a moment of madness, I > drove from where I lived in SoCal up to Oceano where CV is currently > located and found them. I had some bit of cash in the bank from closing > out my mother's estate. I thought perhaps I might convince him to sell > me the molds for the lines of trucks and the old-timer kits that they > used to make. No deal, of course, on either of them. He said if he did > decide to sell, Kadee had first crack at them. I have absolutely *NO* > experience in casting, but I thought if I had the molds I might find a > foundry to handle that on a contract basis, then I'd take care of > assembly and selling them. > I talked with the fellow for some time. He showed me his layout > there in the factory and gave me a look at the turnout kits that were > close to going into production. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ > > "I really like the oldies - See Me, Feel Me, Touch Me, Marry Me, Kill > Me..." > -Al Bundy, "Married With Children" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2810	From: Imp Ster	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?

i always assumed that the axles were set in place using a minute fibre sleeve. almost like the fibre rims on the Mantua - et all insulated drivers. ...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2811	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?

I recently read a review of Central Valley Trucks wheelsets in an OLD 1940's MRR. It said the wheelsets were insulated by some kind of ceamic impregnated lacquer or something like that. I wonder if it was the porcelain kind of paint they use on household appliances? In any case, it was a secret that died with the original owner/inventor and the new owner eventually fixed the problem with a nylon sleeve, but that was short lived, because he quit making them. I have several of the newer Central Valley trucks, but haven't really given them a run for the money. I suspect they shoudld be just fine. But, with all of the new really good wheelsets available from Intermountain, P2K, and Kadee, I won't be losing sleep over wheelsets. I will just replace offending ones. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] CV secrets: laquer insulation...? Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:08:54 -0000 i always assumed that the axles were set in place using a minute fibre sleeve. almost like the fibre rims on the Mantua - et all insulated drivers. .... _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2812	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] CV secrets: laquer insulation...? >I recently read a review of Central Valley Trucks wheelsets in an OLD >1940's > MRR. It said the wheelsets were insulated by some kind of ceamic > impregnated lacquer or something like that. I wonder if it was the > porcelain kind of paint they use on household appliances? In any case, it > was a secret that died with the original owner/inventor and the new owner > eventually fixed the problem with a nylon sleeve, but that was short > lived, > because he quit making them. I have several of the newer Central Valley > trucks, but haven't really given them a run for the money. I suspect they > shoudld be just fine. But, with all of the new really good wheelsets > available from Intermountain, P2K, and Kadee, I won't be losing sleep over > wheelsets. I will just replace offending ones. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC It was the lousy new wheelsets that killed the CV's the second time around. People refused to buy them because they were so bad compared to the originals that George made. Even the press (MR etc.) reported that they were nowhere near as good. I tried a couple pairs and literally cried! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2813	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

As long as you're not a "dealer" trying to make a living peddling junk to unsuspecting newbies <G>.  Seriously, no problem at all with offering some pieces from your own collection to other appreciative collectors.  The only thing I don't want, that I've seen on other lists, is people who post long list of "for sale" items every week, and that's the only input they have to the list.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Daley To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? Moderators Don et al:   I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum?   retiredgrouch Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2814	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Still, I am curious as to what a Mike is...? Is it the Mikado? Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: As long as you're not a "dealer" trying to make a living peddling junk to unsuspecting newbies <G>.  Seriously, no problem at all with offering some pieces from your own collection to other appreciative collectors.  The only thing I don't want, that I've seen on other lists, is people who post long list of "for sale" items every week, and that's the only input they have to the list.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Daley To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? Moderators Don et al:   I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum?   retiredgrouch Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2815	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?

I wonder if they may have come via employees or officers of the railroad?    Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Was this cast in USA? I found mine at a local Milwaukee swap meet a few years ago. Now just how in the world did three of them turn up in the same neighborhood? This is a 50's Rivarossi steamer body....... I'd better understand one or two of the decorated ones being around from damaged or partly scrapped old models. But three of the undec's of a European company's product ??? Mine look like they were just pulled from the models and set aside without any further work on it [them]. You can see where the screws would have been drilled and tapped in the next steps. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 21, 2007, at 6:59 PM, DLeistikow@... wrote: Looks familiar..... I have a black one, apparenty moulded of Bakelite. The distinguishing characteristic is the round area in the wing on the nose.  As I recall, there are two initials cast in there, not the typical Hiawatha single digit numeral.         I do not remember how or where I acquired mine (shell casting only) unpainted.... but this one sure looks like what I have.                                               Now where did I put it?                              Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2816	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: new (temp? argh) home pic. (&, Central Valley data wanted)

----- Original Message ----- From: "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:41 AM Subject: [vintageHO] new (temp? argh) home pic. (&, Central Valley data wanted) > great image on the Vintage HO home page now. > even if it is just an "ad" for the pic contest. > the "trees" do a great job of giving scale to the structure. > i had to chuckle seeing that cattle car spotted on the siding, i have > the Revell issue (styrene body, die cast underframe, operating doors, > vintage Kadee arch-bar talgo trucks) sitting right here, it was a > real prize to find in a hobby shop junk box. > That particular car is a Varney, but I DO have a Revell too! > just finished restoring a few bits of vintage rolling stock that came > my way, card-wood 25' hopper w/ Central Valley archbars, wood-kit 25' > mini-boxcar w/ CV archbars and actual opening doors, wood-kit crummy > w/ leaf-spring CV trucks, got the seams dosed with ACC, vintage CV > trucks all, new Kaydee all... in the same junque box was also found > several card and wod boxcars, a Binkley Harriman coach in sections > (glue had dried and separated), a cardstock blacksmithy (with wooden > forge, anvil, water barrel) and a really great card and wood saloon > with batwing doors. > all items appear to date from pre-WW2. > > btw, anybody got the run-down on Central Valley as far as production > issues and date-of-issue identifying marks? > - many of the truck rames have minor zinc rot, but the wheel sets are > the marvelous "glass insulated" metal wheels which will be great for > interior lighting electrical supply on the cabeese and passenger > stock. > also, any and all anecdotes on Central Valley are most welcome. > > cheers I don't know of any markings on the trucks that a layman could translate, but I had the extreme pleasure of meeting George Hook at the first "Trainfest" back about 1972-73. I had a pre "silver anniversary" Walthers car with CV's on it that I knew dated from before 1959 (that's when the Walther's design changed) and I showed them to him, commenting how wonderful his trucks were that these were still running on our club layout 20 years later. He went on for about 20 minutes about "well, you see this little mark on bolster here, that was when I dropped the mold in 1946 when the cat startled me and these are brass rivets that are hollow, I strated using those in 1948, but these are the springs that were supplied by so & so,....... etc etc. He finally said he made that truck in about 1948. The man was fascinating. He was ready to retire then, it wasn't too long after that that he did. The new owners used the different wheelsets, and they were a total disaster. They were so awful people refused to buy them. (FWIW, if you can find any of the old Kemtron "WA-10" wheels, these are the same as the CV 33" freight car wheels). The other interesting thing about George, he wasn't really all that excited about the trucks. His first love was the freight car kits he made, he saw the trucks as a "necessary evil" because nobody else was making anything as good. (Silver Streak and Ulrich were the only ones who came close). Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2817	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???

Speaking of the 6-wheel Buckeye trucks--back in high school one of my favorite HO models was my Athearn crane--cost me $8.50!  That was the all-die-cast version, with the full rigging (six stacks of three sheaves--the four corners of the boom lift and two for the hook)---it had sprung Buckeyes--center wheel on one truck was slightly eccentric--I used to love watching it roll by--  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Imp Ster To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying??? thanks all for the CV stories. turnout kits, eh? i wonder if he found and took my rants about milled points and metal guard rails to heart. die cast frogs would be nice too, but ya cant have everything.. . esp in code 83. as for the trucks, i have enough few samples t o get by on, but all i'm waiting for is the 6-wheel Buckeye. (Timken roller bearings if you please sah) somebody came out with a brass Buckeye that is sadly lacking in the finesse dept. (which is odd considering the $49.95 price tag.) nobody ever wants to part with the molds. i guess i will just have to pirate them myself in zinc as they need to be for mass production / dist at reasonable prices. ... --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@. ..> wrote: > > ckinzer@... wrote: > > I was chatting with the Central Valley fellow at a train show awhile > > back. He indicated they had plans to make some of the trucks again. > > Haven't seen them yet, though. > > I was about...uhmmm. ..5-6 years ago that, in a moment of madness, I > drove from where I lived in SoCal up to Oceano where CV is currently > located and found them. I had some bit of cash in the bank from closing > out my mother's estate. I thought perhaps I might convince him to sell > me the molds for the lines of trucks and the old-timer kits that they > used to make. No deal, of course, on either of them. He said if he did > decide to sell, Kadee had first crack at them. I have absolutely *NO* > experience in casting, but I thought if I had the molds I might find a > foundry to handle that on a contract basis, then I'd take care of > assembly and selling them. > I talked with the fellow for some time. He showed me his layout > there in the factory and gave me a look at the turnout kits that were > close to going into production. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocitie s.com/seventysix inchesoffun/ > > "I really like the oldies - See Me, Feel Me, Touch Me, Marry Me, Kill > Me..." > -Al Bundy, "Married With Children" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2818	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???

----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying??? > Regarding Central Valley's trucks, there is an interesting story around > that. The owner of the trucks is still alive, the last I heard, but > refuses > to make them or sell the rights to them. Check out CC Crowe's web site > and > the particular story: > http://www.cccrow.com/how-2/brass.html#three > When I first found CC's web site, I spent days reading it. CC is a really > great guy and is a true modeler's friend. Regarding the article, we > believe > it is essentially, Model Railroader magazine who is at fault why we no > longer have Central Valley trucks. I doubt Model Railroader meant for > that > to happen. > Check it out. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC Jack may be a wonderful guy, BUT (and I'm no friend of the fellows in Waukesha, even though I know a couple of them) I DID try a few pairs of the :new" CV;s, and I have to agree, the wheelsets WERE prettty awful. It was a delightful surprise when one found a truck where both axles actually had the wheels in gauge! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2819	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Generally is--when referring to a locomotive--when referring to tools, a Micrometer.  Communications--a Microphone-- 8-)  what other definitions does it have?? ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? Still, I am curious as to what a Mike is...? Is it the Mikado? Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: As long as you're not a "dealer" trying to make a living peddling junk to unsuspecting newbies <G>.  Seriously, no problem at all with offering some pieces from your own collection to other appreciative collectors.  The only thing I don't want, that I've seen on other lists, is people who post long list of "for sale" items every week, and that's the only input they have to the list.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Daley To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? Moderators Don et al:   I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum?   retiredgrouch Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2820	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

An Irishman? > > Generally is--when referring to a locomotive--when referring to tools, a Micrometer. Communications--a Microphone-- 8-) what other definitions does it have?? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 4:06 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? > > > Still, I am curious as to what a Mike is...? Is it the Mikado? Sean > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > As long as you're not a "dealer" trying to make a living peddling junk to unsuspecting newbies <G>. Seriously, no problem at all with offering some pieces from your own collection to other appreciative collectors. The only thing I don't want, that I've seen on other lists, is people who post long list of "for sale" items every week, and that's the only input they have to the list. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Daley > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:11 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? > > > Moderators Don et al: > > I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum? > > retiredgrouch > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2821	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Don and the group:   I am NOT a dealer/commercial trader/ etc. I am a member of the Burlington County (NJ) Model RR club in So. Jersey. I'm selling this piece because I have many locos and since the club went to DCC I have to raise some coin to buy a powerful decoder needed for an original Hobbytown with the DC91 motor. Requires ability to handle many amps.   Formal announcement w/full description will be forthcoming within a week     Bill Daley Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: As long as you're not a "dealer" trying to make a living peddling junk to unsuspecting newbies <G>.  Seriously, no problem at all with offering some pieces from your own collection to other appreciative collectors.  The only thing I don't want, that I've seen on other lists, is people who post long list of "for sale" items every week, and that's the only input they have to the list.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Daley To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? Moderators Don et al:   I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum?   retiredgrouch Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2822	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Ah, yes.  I should have remembered--that's what I call one of the guys on my Bachmann handcar--the others are , of course "Pat", and "Mr. O'Malley"--the boss riding the trailer car-- ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? An Irishman? > > Generally is--when referring to a locomotive-- when referring to tools, a Micrometer. Communications- -a Microphone-- 8-) what other definitions does it have?? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 4:06 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? > > > Still, I am curious as to what a Mike is...? Is it the Mikado? Sean > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > > As long as you're not a "dealer" trying to make a living peddling junk to unsuspecting newbies <G>. Seriously, no problem at all with offering some pieces from your own collection to other appreciative collectors. The only thing I don't want, that I've seen on other lists, is people who post long list of "for sale" items every week, and that's the only input they have to the list. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Daley > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:11 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? > > > Moderators Don et al: > > I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum? > > retiredgrouch > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - ------- > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - ----------- > Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2823	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

No worries here. Dave S. My Railroad picture pages are at www.flickr.com/photos/des-productions Miscellaneous other pictures are at www.flickr.com/photos/des-productions1 New site for Train videos at. http://www.motionbox.com/video/list_user_videos/daves sean naylor wrote: What is the Mike?   If it is ok with everyone else.. if it is something I do not already have.. I would be interested... Sean Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> wrote: Moderators Don et al:   I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum?   retiredgrouch Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/699 - Release Date: 2/23/2007 1:26 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2824	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Any Good Pictorial Online Guides to Vintage HO Scale?

Hi, I am new to this group, and have been collecting and operating '30s through late '50s HO for about six years now. Mostly paper and wood and sheetmetal cars, with some diecast stuff. I am not from the era when these cars were new. I am 22 years of age and so do not have a lot of first hand experience with these cars from the golden era of model railroading, so keep this in mind. The question is, are there any good online guides to say, Varney, Mantua, Lehigh, or other vintage manufacturers? I know Greenberg put out a Varney guide a while back, but I believe it is out of print and hard to find. I do enjoy operating vintage HO scale- nothing beats the sight of ten paper and wood coaches pulled by an ABBA lashup of lead Cary F3s, but I have a number of cars that neither I nor the local hobby shop owner (A veteran model railroader) can identify, and knowing the value would be nice just for insurance purposes if nothing else. If the site has pictures, that would help even more. I know there is one site that has Tyco, AHM, Bachmann, Aurora, and a couple others, but it isn't too much use to me anymore (And I can't find it anyways). Thanks in advance! Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2825	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???

Hi Don, I don't know that I can say anything first hand about the new style CV trucks. The last time I bought any was around 1973 or 1974. Those were very good trucks and they had the tell tale colored lacquer or expoxy insulation. I just checked a pair that I bought at a train show recently in a CV plastic box and compared them to the old ones I have. They are nothing like CV trucks. The castings are very different from CVs. I think I got Patco trucks in a CV box. There is a very obvious white plastic flanged bushing as an insulator. These trucks check out fine on the gauge and with a little graphite might end up rolling very nice also, but I don't think they are CV's. Can you describe the new, not so good CV's so we can id them? Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying??? Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:57:32 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying??? > Regarding Central Valley's trucks, there is an interesting story around > that. The owner of the trucks is still alive, the last I heard, but > refuses > to make them or sell the rights to them. Check out CC Crowe's web site > and > the particular story: > http://www.cccrow.com/how-2/brass.html#three > When I first found CC's web site, I spent days reading it. CC is a really > great guy and is a true modeler's friend. Regarding the article, we > believe > it is essentially, Model Railroader magazine who is at fault why we no > longer have Central Valley trucks. I doubt Model Railroader meant for > that > to happen. > Check it out. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC Jack may be a wonderful guy, BUT (and I'm no friend of the fellows in Waukesha, even though I know a couple of them) I DID try a few pairs of the :new" CV;s, and I have to agree, the wheelsets WERE prettty awful. It was a delightful surprise when one found a truck where both axles actually had the wheels in gauge! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY _________________________________________________________________ Find what you need at prices you�ll love. Compare products and save at MSN� Shopping. http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/?ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102&tcode=T001MSN20A0701

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2826	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???

----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying??? > Hi Don, > I don't know that I can say anything first hand about the new style CV > trucks. The last time I bought any was around 1973 or 1974. Those were > very good trucks and they had the tell tale colored lacquer or expoxy > insulation. I just checked a pair that I bought at a train show recently > in > a CV plastic box and compared them to the old ones I have. They are > nothing > like CV trucks. The castings are very different from CVs. I think I got > Patco trucks in a CV box. There is a very obvious white plastic flanged > bushing as an insulator. These trucks check out fine on the gauge and > with > a little graphite might end up rolling very nice also, but I don't think > they are CV's. Can you describe the new, not so good CV's so we can id > them? > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC The sideframes appeared to be the same. As I recall, the wheelsets had a black nylon or delrin "spacer" that appeared to be covering the axle, kind of like a modern version of the 1940's mantua wheelset. I never took one apart, but I believe it may have actually been a "split" axle, which could account for the bad gauge. If your wheels have the laquer, they are definitely still George's. If you have the packaging the numbering system went from a letter and two digits to three digits, for example the "T-21" 6 wheel rivited sideframe became the "221", the "T-55" bettendorf freight truck became the "255" etcetera. The new owners also offered them with "fineline" wheels, a narrower tread and smaller flange than the RP-25. I have never seen any of those, I don't know if they ever existed outside a listing in the Walther's catalog, or if they did exist, if they were any better. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2827	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???

I have one pair of the Athearn Buckeyes under a Red Ball die cast crane, and they are great trucks.  I had a second pair but the succumbed to lead rot.    Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Joesten To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying??? Speaking of the 6-wheel Buckeye trucks--back in high school one of my favorite HO models was my Athearn crane--cost me $8.50!  That was the all-die-cast version, with the full rigging (six stacks of three sheaves--the four corners of the boom lift and two for the hook)---it had sprung Buckeyes--center wheel on one truck was slightly eccentric--I used to love watching it roll by--  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Imp Ster To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying??? thanks all for the CV stories. turnout kits, eh? i wonder if he found and took my rants about milled points and metal guard rails to heart. die cast frogs would be nice too, but ya cant have everything.. . esp in code 83. as for the trucks, i have enough few samples t o get by on, but all i'm waiting for is the 6-wheel Buckeye. (Timken roller bearings if you please sah) somebody came out with a brass Buckeye that is sadly lacking in the finesse dept. (which is odd considering the $49.95 price tag.) nobody ever wants to part with the molds. i guess i will just have to pirate them myself in zinc as they need to be for mass production / dist at reasonable prices. ... --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@. ..> wrote: > > ckinzer@... wrote: > > I was chatting with the Central Valley fellow at a train show awhile > > back. He indicated they had plans to make some of the trucks again. > > Haven't seen them yet, though. > > I was about...uhmmm. ..5-6 years ago that, in a moment of madness, I > drove from where I lived in SoCal up to Oceano where CV is currently > located and found them. I had some bit of cash in the bank from closing > out my mother's estate. I thought perhaps I might convince him to sell > me the molds for the lines of trucks and the old-timer kits that they > used to make. No deal, of course, on either of them. He said if he did > decide to sell, Kadee had first crack at them. I have absolutely *NO* > experience in casting, but I thought if I had the molds I might find a > foundry to handle that on a contract basis, then I'd take care of > assembly and selling them. > I talked with the fellow for some time. He showed me his layout > there in the factory and gave me a look at the turnout kits that were > close to going into production. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocitie s.com/seventysix inchesoffun/ > > "I really like the oldies - See Me, Feel Me, Touch Me, Marry Me, Kill > Me..." > -Al Bundy, "Married With Children" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2828	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Any Good Pictorial Online Guides to Vintage HO Scale?

----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Any Good Pictorial Online Guides to Vintage HO Scale? > Hi, I am new to this group, and have been collecting and operating > '30s through late '50s HO for about six years now. Mostly paper and > wood and sheetmetal cars, with some diecast stuff. > > I am not from the era when these cars were new. I am 22 years of age > and so do not have a lot of first hand experience with these cars from > the golden era of model railroading, so keep this in mind. > > The question is, are there any good online guides to say, Varney, > Mantua, Lehigh, or other vintage manufacturers? I know Greenberg put > out a Varney guide a while back, but I believe it is out of print and > hard to find. I do enjoy operating vintage HO scale- nothing beats the > sight of ten paper and wood coaches pulled by an ABBA lashup of lead > Cary F3s, but I have a number of cars that neither I nor the local > hobby shop owner (A veteran model railroader) can identify, and > knowing the value would be nice just for insurance purposes if nothing > else. If the site has pictures, that would help even more. > > I know there is one site that has Tyco, AHM, Bachmann, Aurora, and a > couple others, but it isn't too much use to me anymore (And I can't > find it anyways). > > Thanks in advance! > Steve You're there. Check our own little photo gallery here for a lot of different vintage cars. If you can't find it, post pictures here of what you have. Someone will be able to identify it. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2829	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

I believe that term was "Mick" (of course what do I know, I'm just a dumb Kraut <G>) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? > An Irishman? > >> >> Generally is--when referring to a locomotive--when referring to > tools, a Micrometer. Communications--a Microphone-- 8-) what other > definitions does it have?? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: sean naylor >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 4:06 PM >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. > for sale? >> >> >> Still, I am curious as to what a Mike is...? Is it the Mikado? > Sean >> >> Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >> >> As long as you're not a "dealer" trying to make a living > peddling junk to unsuspecting newbies <G>. Seriously, no problem at > all with offering some pieces from your own collection to other > appreciative collectors. The only thing I don't want, that I've > seen on other lists, is people who post long list of "for sale" > items every week, and that's the only input they have to the list. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Bill Daley >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:11 AM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. > for sale? >> >> >> Moderators Don et al: >> >> I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and > don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. > Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this > forum? >> >> retiredgrouch >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- >> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast >> with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- >> Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers > from real people who know. >> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. > Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2830	From: sean naylor	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???

I have the same under my diecast athearn cranes - 1 good and one rotten... Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: I have one pair of the Athearn Buckeyes under a Red Ball die cast crane, and they are great trucks.  I had a second pair but the succumbed to lead rot.    Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Joesten To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying??? Speaking of the 6-wheel Buckeye trucks--back in high school one of my favorite HO models was my Athearn crane--cost me $8.50!  That was the all-die-cast version, with the full rigging (six stacks of three sheaves--the four corners of the boom lift and two for the hook)---it had sprung Buckeyes--center wheel on one truck was slightly eccentric--I used to love watching it roll by--  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Imp Ster To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying??? thanks all for the CV stories. turnout kits, eh? i wonder if he found and took my rants about milled points and metal guard rails to heart. die cast frogs would be nice too, but ya cant have everything.. . esp in code 83. as for the trucks, i have enough few samples t o get by on, but all i'm waiting for is the 6-wheel Buckeye. (Timken roller bearings if you please sah) somebody came out with a brass Buckeye that is sadly lacking in the finesse dept. (which is odd considering the $49.95 price tag.) nobody ever wants to part with the molds. i guess i will just have to pirate them myself in zinc as they need to be for mass production / dist at reasonable prices. ... --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@. ..> wrote: > > ckinzer@... wrote: > > I was chatting with the Central Valley fellow at a train show awhile > > back. He indicated they had plans to make some of the trucks again. > > Haven't seen them yet, though. > > I was about...uhmmm. ..5-6 years ago that, in a moment of madness, I > drove from where I lived in SoCal up to Oceano where CV is currently > located and found them. I had some bit of cash in the bank from closing > out my mother's estate. I thought perhaps I might convince him to sell > me the molds for the lines of trucks and the old-timer kits that they > used to make. No deal, of course, on either of them. He said if he did > decide to sell, Kadee had first crack at them. I have absolutely *NO* > experience in casting, but I thought if I had the molds I might find a > foundry to handle that on a contract basis, then I'd take care of > assembly and selling them. > I talked with the fellow for some time. He showed me his layout > there in the factory and gave me a look at the turnout kits that were > close to going into production. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocitie s.com/seventysix inchesoffun/ > > "I really like the oldies - See Me, Feel Me, Touch Me, Marry Me, Kill > Me..." > -Al Bundy, "Married With Children" > Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2831	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Contest

Don't forget, you have only five more days to cast your vote for the new "cover photo". We have 255 members, and so far only 33 have voted! There is a point spread of only three votes between first and last place, so it's still wide open. Go to the "a contest" album in the photos section, pick your favorite of the four, then go to "polls" and cast your vote. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2832	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Any Good Pictorial Online Guides to Vintage HO Scale?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, I am new to this group, and have been collecting and operating > '30s through late '50s HO for about six years now. Mostly paper and > wood and sheetmetal cars, with some diecast stuff. > > I am not from the era when these cars were new. I am 22 years of age > and so do not have a lot of first hand experience with these cars from > the golden era of model railroading, so keep this in mind. > > The question is, are there any good online guides to say, Varney, > Mantua, Lehigh, or other vintage manufacturers? I know Greenberg put > out a Varney guide a while back, but I believe it is out of print and > hard to find. I do enjoy operating vintage HO scale- nothing beats the > sight of ten paper and wood coaches pulled by an ABBA lashup of lead > Cary F3s, but I have a number of cars that neither I nor the local > hobby shop owner (A veteran model railroader) can identify, and > knowing the value would be nice just for insurance purposes if nothing > else. If the site has pictures, that would help even more. > > I know there is one site that has Tyco, AHM, Bachmann, Aurora, and a > couple others, but it isn't too much use to me anymore (And I can't > find it anyways). > > Thanks in advance! > Steve Welcome aboard Steve! We look foreward to your contributions & feedback. There's quite alot of vintage information at http://www.hoseeker.net You might want to check it out....Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2833	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?

Don, I remember the review Model Railroader did on the "new" CV trucks. It was one of the few times I've seen where MR really blasted a product. They reported that the almost all the wheel sets badly wobbled. They also said at some point, maybe in the review or at a later date (Can't remember when but do remember what) that they contacted the manufacturer who stated that the problem was due to the nylon insulating sleeve. Seems it was too soft and the individual wheels would dig into the nylon. Then the wheel would end up crooked on the axle causing a wobble. CV also said they were working the problem out but production was halted in the meantime. Apparently "meantime" is still going on as that was the end of their truck line. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > It was the lousy new wheelsets that killed the CV's the second time around. > People refused to buy them because they were so bad compared to the > originals that George made. Even the press (MR etc.) reported that they > were nowhere near as good. I tried a couple pairs and literally cried! > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2834	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???

Yes, the sideframes were the same. IKt was the wheel stes where the problem rested. I think you are correct with the split axle. I seem to recall that being in the MR review. And I do believenow that you mention it, that the insulators had a shoulder that was also supposed to automatically gauge the wheels. I remember distinctly that the problem was the wheels getting "cocked" when pressed on the axles (digging into the nylon) and causing a wobble. Of course, this would also put them out of gauge. And since darn near everyone in model railroading read MR back then (Probably especially HOer's) their review probably didn't do much to help CV. But it was their bad wheels sets that killed them. If they would have resolved the problem, Ithink they would have been ok. They were the Cadillac of the field up to then and I know I, and I'm sure many, many others, were waiting for the problem to solved. I also recall the the "fineline" wheel sets being mentioned in the review and that they still used the old design had no problems with wobble and/or gauge. Speculation on my part; The "fineline" was too small a portion of their business to carry them. The new owners were probably financially strapped and spent all their cash on the new design. When it didn't work they had too little reserves to come up with a cure. Plus, they would have had to replace all the bad wheelsets already sold and buy back the unsold product sitting on dealers' shelves to prederve the CV reputation. That would have been necessary to regain their lost customer base. It was just too much for them. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > The sideframes appeared to be the same. As I recall, the wheelsets had a > black nylon or delrin "spacer" that appeared to be covering the axle, kind > of like a modern version of the 1940's mantua wheelset. I never took one > apart, but I believe it may have actually been a "split" axle, which could > account for the bad gauge. If your wheels have the laquer, they are > definitely still George's. If you have the packaging the numbering system > went from a letter and two digits to three digits, for example the "T-21" 6 > wheel rivited sideframe became the "221", the "T-55" bettendorf freight > truck became the "255" etcetera. The new owners also offered them with > "fineline" wheels, a narrower tread and smaller flange than the RP- 25. I > have never seen any of those, I don't know if they ever existed outside a > listing in the Walther's catalog, or if they did exist, if they were any > better. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2835	From: Martin Rosenfeld	Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Another Central Valley Question...?

I have been following the discussion of the history of CV and it led me to wonder what is the relationship of the "old" Central Valley of wheelset fame and the present Central Valley in Oceanside, California. Martin Rosenfeld

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2836	From: jay matz	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Bill Scrap the DC-91 they are not decoder freindly. A good can motor will work better, and draw a lot less curent. Jay Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> wrote: Don and the group:   I am NOT a dealer/commercial trader/ etc. I am a member of the Burlington County (NJ) Model RR club in So. Jersey. I'm selling this piece because I have many locos and since the club went to DCC I have to raise some coin to buy a powerful decoder needed for an original Hobbytown with the DC91 motor. Requires ability to handle many amps.   We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2837	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Dear Group,   I came upon this subject title belatedly, but I think that this was not the intention of the original posting. Many groups have postings of items for sale by individuals. I have purchased a few myself in this manner. I think that there are in several groups individuals who all too frequently post items for sale...making the use of the posting a commercial site. I mean their frequency is quite significant. Their "inventory" changes significantly.   A separate website might be needed for such activity if it is to be used frequently by any given parties. The problem I suspect that I missed discussion of earlier is when the existing parent website is used to conduct personal business vis-a-vis general interest information posting/exchange.   I think that is up to the Moderator to address this issue. I will say no more.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: Bill Scrap the DC-91 they are not decoder freindly. A good can motor will work better, and draw a lot less curent. Jay Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@ yahoo.com> wrote: Don and the group:   I am NOT a dealer/commercial trader/ etc. I am a member of the Burlington County (NJ) Model RR club in So. Jersey. I'm selling this piece because I have many locos and since the club went to DCC I have to raise some coin to buy a powerful decoder needed for an original Hobbytown with the DC91 motor. Requires ability to handle many amps.   We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2838	From: jim gerstley	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?

My understanding is that the new owner of CV had trouble with his original wheelsets. He told me he did solve the problem but by then he had lost his customer base and chose to discontinue the trucks. In retrospect it would have been better for everyone if he'd recalled the trucks and fixed the problem before putting them back on the market, but that's water under the bridge. I believe he still has the dies but last I heard [several years ago now] he has no interest at all in bringing them to market again. If he still has the dies, not even sure he's interested in selling them--or what shape they and all the peripheral tooling would be in if they still existed after all these years. I think the poster indicated CV was in Oceanside; they're still in Oceano according to their website. Jim Gerstley ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2839	From: Phillip VanderHeyden	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Second that. If you are replacing a DC-91 you should be able to fit a fairly large can motor. You might be able to find a holland (coreless tape deck motor) can motor on Ebay or from A-line/Proto Power. I've also seen some Ebayer selling faulhaber motors and maxons that do a nice job. The best fit for a hobbytown F, E, FA, or PA would be the holland. Monster torque, slow speed and very low current draw. I have two of these installed on very old Hobbytowns, the ones designed for the old Globe F-unit shell. They actually run very nicely at slow speed, something a DC-91 didn't want to do for me. And that's with the stock gearing. phil jay matz wrote: > > Bill > Scrap the DC-91 they are not decoder freindly. A good can motor will > work better, and draw a lot less curent. > Jay > > */Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...>/* wrote: > > Don and the group: > I am NOT a dealer/commercial trader/ etc. I am a member of the > Burlington County (NJ) Model RR club in So. Jersey. I'm selling > this piece because I have many locos and since the club went to > DCC I have to raise some coin to buy a powerful > decoder needed for an original Hobbytown with the DC91 motor. > Requires ability to handle many amps. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49980/*http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265> > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49980/*http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2840	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Ah, Jay, I love it! "vintage H0", so the decoders you are using are pre-octal-based Vacuum tubes, right? The glass portion alone bigger than most boxcars? The DC-91 motor has outlasted all, as in every, dcc decoder, right? Maybe unless the motor is late enough for ASTRAC to have been around. How are they not "friendly"? If just the one brush, easy fix, if current draw, heck, 8-10 amp decoders are out there. I know NCE has an 8, I've cut one out of a locomotive. > > Bill > Scrap the DC-91 they are not decoder freindly. A good can motor will work better, and draw a lot less curent. > Jay > > Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> wrote: > Don and the group: > I am NOT a dealer/commercial trader/ etc. I am a member of the Burlington County (NJ) Model RR club in So. Jersey. I'm selling this piece because I have many locos and since the club went to DCC I have to raise some coin to buy a powerful > decoder needed for an original Hobbytown with the DC91 motor. Requires ability to handle many amps. > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2841	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?

----- Original Message ----- From: "jim gerstley" <jimggers@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 10:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...? > My understanding is that the new owner of CV had trouble with his > original wheelsets. He told me he did solve the problem but by then he > had lost his customer base and chose to discontinue the trucks. In > retrospect it would have been better for everyone if he'd recalled the > trucks and fixed the problem before putting them back on the market, > but that's water under the bridge. I believe he still has the dies but > last I heard [several years ago now] he has no interest at all in > bringing them to market again. If he still has the dies, not even sure > he's interested in selling them--or what shape they and all the > peripheral tooling would be in if they still existed after all these > years. > I think the poster indicated CV was in Oceanside; they're still in > Oceano according to their website. > Jim Gerstley Point to remember, if the original CV tooling still exists, it IS the wrong side of 60 years old. If you want to see what tooling does over the years, compare the 1961 Revell Chrysler autos with the reissued ones from Heljan in the 1980's. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2842	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?

Don, You know how my automobile likes run but I gotta tell ya ain't no amount of improved tooling gonna make any 1961 Chrysler product look good. Plymouth's and Dodge's were butt ugly, which would have been a step up for the Desoto's. No wonder they closed in 61. The Chrysler's weren't TOO bad although a definite step down from 1960. Well, I like the 300G but then it's a letter car. Actually the Valiant and Lancer were probably the best looking of the 61's and you know what they looked like. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > Point to remember, if the original CV tooling still exists, it IS the wrong > side of 60 years old. > > If you want to see what tooling does over the years, compare the 1961 Revell > Chrysler autos with the reissued ones from Heljan in the 1980's. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2843	From: jay matz	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Why would you want to draw 8-10 amps when you can replace it with a motor that only draws 1-2 amps, than runs smoother and quitet and is controlable. Besids NCE doesn't recomend more than 5 amps per booster, in HO. Myself when I went into comand control 25 plus years ago I scraped the open face motors. Today we can run 12 locos on 2-3 amps . See the RR at http://dlw-model-rr.com/ Jay curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Ah, Jay, I love it! "vintage H0", so the decoders you are using are pre-octal-based Vacuum tubes, right? The glass portion alone bigger than most boxcars? The DC-91 motor has outlasted all, as in every, dcc decoder, right? Maybe unless the motor is late enough for ASTRAC to have been around. How are they not "friendly"? If just the one brush, easy fix, if current draw, heck, 8-10 amp decoders are out there. I know NCE has an 8, I've cut one out of a locomotive. > > Bill > Scrap the DC-91 they are not decoder freindly. A good can motor will work better, and draw a lot less curent. > Jay > > Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@ ...> wrote: > Don and the group: > I am NOT a dealer/commercial trader/ etc. I am a member of the Burlington County (NJ) Model RR club in So. Jersey. I'm selling this piece because I have many locos and since the club went to DCC I have to raise some coin to buy a powerful > decoder needed for an original Hobbytown with the DC91 motor. Requires ability to handle many amps. > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2844	From: jay matz	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

That should have been http://www.dlw-model-rr.com/ Jay curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Ah, Jay, I love it! "vintage H0", so the decoders you are using are pre-octal-based Vacuum tubes, right? The glass portion alone bigger than most boxcars? The DC-91 motor has outlasted all, as in every, dcc decoder, right? Maybe unless the motor is late enough for ASTRAC to have been around. How are they not "friendly"? If just the one brush, easy fix, if current draw, heck, 8-10 amp decoders are out there. I know NCE has an 8, I've cut one out of a locomotive. > > Bill > Scrap the DC-91 they are not decoder freindly. A good can motor will work better, and draw a lot less curent. > Jay > > Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@ ...> wrote: > Don and the group: > I am NOT a dealer/commercial trader/ etc. I am a member of the Burlington County (NJ) Model RR club in So. Jersey. I'm selling this piece because I have many locos and since the club went to DCC I have to raise some coin to buy a powerful > decoder needed for an original Hobbytown with the DC91 motor. Requires ability to handle many amps. > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2845	From: Martin Rosenfeld	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?

On 02/24/07 jim gerstley wrote: > I think the poster indicated CV was in Oceanside; they're still in > Oceano according to their website. My mistake, it is Oceano. Are they the same company? They have some nice stuff, but not much new in a while. Martin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2846	From: Jay Matz	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Layout

Some day I will get my vintage trains on my webpage, all I need is time. See the RR, http://www.dlw-model-rr.com/ Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2847	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?

jim gerstley wrote: > I think the poster indicated CV was in Oceanside; they're still in > Oceano according to their website. It was my previous posting, in which I said I traveled from my home at the time in Southern California to CV's location in Oceano, CA, not Oceanside. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ "It's the new improved Tang. Chocked full of vitamins and ministers." -Kelly Bundy, "Married With Children"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2848	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

John, I asked the question, and Mr Dellman gave permission.  I do not want to go on eBay, as I stated in my original message, because the people to whom I would want to sell to, are precisely this group. They know and appreciate (and run) the equipment with which I am reluctantly parting.    Would you want a separate vintage ho catagory for selling and trading?  Would you be the moderator?    Should this current group/forum become a "mini eBay", I assume that 95% of the present members would bail out.  We are indeed responsible persons, who enjoy the sharing of information and hard learned knowledge and as long as no person abuses the occasional offering, do we really need a restriction?    respectfully Bill Daley  aka retired grouch John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Dear Group,   I came upon this subject title belatedly, but I think that this was not the intention of the original posting. Many groups have postings of items for sale by individuals. I have purchased a few myself in this manner. I think that there are in several groups individuals who all too frequently post items for sale...making the use of the posting a commercial site. I mean their frequency is quite significant. Their "inventory" changes significantly.   A separate website might be needed for such activity if it is to be used frequently by any given parties. The problem I suspect that I missed discussion of earlier is when the existing parent website is used to conduct personal business vis-a-vis general interest information posting/exchange.   I think that is up to the Moderator to address this issue. I will say no more.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) jay matz <dlw455@yahoo. com> wrote: Bill Scrap the DC-91 they are not decoder freindly. A good can motor will work better, and draw a lot less curent. Jay Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@ yahoo.com> wrote: Don and the group:   I am NOT a dealer/commercial trader/ etc. I am a member of the Burlington County (NJ) Model RR club in So. Jersey. I'm selling this piece because I have many locos and since the club went to DCC I have to raise some coin to buy a powerful decoder needed for an original Hobbytown with the DC91 motor. Requires ability to handle many amps.   We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2849	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Layout

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Matz" <dlw455@...> wrote: > > Some day I will get my vintage trains on my webpage, all I need is time. > See the RR, > http://www.dlw-model-rr.com/ > > Jay > I just checked out all your layout photos....Very nice work! Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2850	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: DC91 motors and DCC.

Jay, et al   Mayhap some can motors may perform better than the good old DC91.  But my original Hobbytown E7 just purrs along at the club, regardless of the grade, with a mix of 19 express, mail, baggage, coach, and observation cars. And when you turn up the speed steps, it motivates!!   I retro-fitted computer tape drive motors (from Pittman) in an Athern PA/PB combo.  Pulls the same 19 cars very smoothly and powerfully, but not at passenger train speed.  My recently acquired Hobbytown PA with a DC91 runs smoothly on analog dc, and I expect it to do just as well at the club when I get a proper decoder. And at respectable passenger train speed.   Cost-wise a new quality can motor plus a "regular" decoder is about the same as getting the bigger decoder. And the DC91 doesn't draw but 4 amps at start-up (I believe its called "in-rush"), and then less than 2a when gliding along.   You like vanilla, I like chocolate.  But please don't "dis" that venerable DC91 power plant   retired grouch. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2851	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???

A "split axle", a la Scalecraft, or Athearn diesels, would not work with die-cast frames and bolsters, as each wheel would be feeding power to the frames. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying??? Yes, the sideframes were the same. IKt was the wheel stes where the problem rested. I think you are correct with the split axle. I seem to recall that being in the MR review. And I do believenow that you mention it, that the insulators had a shoulder that was also supposed to automatically gauge the wheels. I remember distinctly that the problem was the wheels getting "cocked" when pressed on the axles (digging into the nylon) and causing a wobble. Of course, this would also put them out of gauge. And since darn near everyone in model railroading read MR back then (Probably especially HOer's) their review probably didn't do much to help CV. But it was their bad wheels sets that killed them. If they would have resolved the problem, Ithink they would have been ok. They were the Cadillac of the field up to then and I know I, and I'm sure many, many others, were waiting for the problem to solved. I also recall the the "fineline" wheel sets being mentioned in the review and that they still used the old design had no problems with wobble and/or gauge. Speculation on my part; The "fineline" was too small a portion of their business to carry them. The new owners were probably financially strapped and spent all their cash on the new design. When it didn't work they had too little reserves to come up with a cure. Plus, they would have had to replace all the bad wheelsets already sold and buy back the unsold product sitting on dealers' shelves to prederve the CV reputation. That would have been necessary to regain their lost customer base. It was just too much for them. --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > > > The sideframes appeared to be the same. As I recall, the wheelsets had a > black nylon or delrin "spacer" that appeared to be covering the axle, kind > of like a modern version of the 1940's mantua wheelset. I never took one > apart, but I believe it may have actually been a "split" axle, which could > account for the bad gauge. If your wheels have the laquer, they are > definitely still George's. If you have the packaging the numbering system > went from a letter and two digits to three digits, for example the "T-21" 6 > wheel rivited sideframe became the "221", the "T-55" bettendorf freight > truck became the "255" etcetera. The new owners also offered them with > "fineline" wheels, a narrower tread and smaller flange than the RP- 25. I > have never seen any of those, I don't know if they ever existed outside a > listing in the Walther's catalog, or if they did exist, if they were any > better. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2852	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

The "Holland" motors are a bit slow for a PA--I installed a Pittman can motor in one many years ago--someone in the SF Bay Area has it now--With the empty spaces filled with lead, the one unit would pull an eleven-car California Zephyr of Con-Cor cars, plus a pair of Athearn dummy  units-- or the equivalent of 14 cars on level track.   ----- From: Phillip VanderHeyden To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? Second that. If you are replacing a DC-91 you should be able to fit a fairly large can motor. You might be able to find a holland (coreless tape deck motor) can motor on Ebay or from A-line/Proto Power. I've also seen some Ebayer selling faulhaber motors and maxons that do a nice job. The best fit for a hobbytown F, E, FA, or PA would be the holland. Monster torque, slow speed and very low current draw. I have two of these installed on very old Hobbytowns, the ones designed for the old Globe F-unit shell. They actually run very nicely at slow speed, something a DC-91 didn't want to do for me. And that's with the stock gearing. phil jay matz wrote: > > Bill > Scrap the DC-91 they are not decoder freindly. A good can motor will > work better, and draw a lot less curent. > Jay > > */Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@ yahoo.com>/* wrote: > > Don and the group: > I am NOT a dealer/commercial trader/ etc. I am a member of the > Burlington County (NJ) Model RR club in So. Jersey. I'm selling > this piece because I have many locos and since the club went to > DCC I have to raise some coin to buy a powerful > decoder needed for an original Hobbytown with the DC91 motor. > Requires ability to handle many amps. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http://tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265> > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49980/ *http://tv. yahoo.com/ collections/ 265> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2853	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

DCC is OFF TOPIC, as is criticising another member's choice of what to run.   I trust I need not say more, thank you   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY   ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? Why would you want to draw 8-10 amps when you can replace it with a motor that only draws 1-2 amps, than runs smoother and quitet and is controlable. Besids NCE doesn't recomend more than 5 amps per booster, in HO. Myself when I went into comand control 25 plus years ago I scraped the open face motors. Today we can run 12 locos on 2-3 amps . See the RR at http://dlw-model-rr.com/ Jay curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Ah, Jay, I love it! "vintage H0", so the decoders you are using are pre-octal-based Vacuum tubes, right? The glass portion alone bigger than most boxcars? The DC-91 motor has outlasted all, as in every, dcc decoder, right? Maybe unless the motor is late enough for ASTRAC to have been around. How are they not "friendly"? If just the one brush, easy fix, if current draw, heck, 8-10 amp decoders are out there. I know NCE has an 8, I've cut one out of a locomotive. > > Bill > Scrap the DC-91 they are not decoder freindly. A good can motor will work better, and draw a lot less curent. > Jay > > Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@ ...> wrote: > Don and the group: > I am NOT a dealer/commercial trader/ etc. I am a member of the Burlington County (NJ) Model RR club in So. Jersey. I'm selling this piece because I have many locos and since the club went to DCC I have to raise some coin to buy a powerful > decoder needed for an original Hobbytown with the DC91 motor. Requires ability to handle many amps. > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2854	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> wrote: > > Moderators Don et al: > > I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum? > > retiredgrouch > > > --------------------------------- > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. > If I may comment. Being an avid eBay user, as well as a collector, I can not help but be bothered by the "amateur wanta-be collectors" remark. Please understand, I am not trying to start trouble, but I do not understand the merit of the remark and would like to. Sure, I am pretty young when compared to mant here in the group, but I know I am not the only one who is still learning what is out there and what has still yet to be learned. As for being an amatuer collector.. ?? what does that mean? Non- professional? If so, then what is a professional collector? Honestly, for myself, I would rather not want to be, nor sell to one.... Un- educated maybe? for a seller, you would think this would be a good thing... Look at all the crappy tyco and bachmann being sold on ebay for obscene amounts of money each day... They tend to be eBay newbies... I would consider them to be good for the sellers... As for myself, I like to think of myself as an educated collector... who is still learning. I see things like Mantua Mikados on eBay all the time.. Their prices range from $25 (damaged or bad description) - $45 (most common) - $70 (very very rarely and usually purchased by a newbie). I also purchased one in a hobby store once for mu nephew's birthday.. I paid $119 for an green GN the very same GN I purchased later on ebay for $36. So, I ask you... Which was better? As for Mantuas.. I love them and think they are great looking and most dependable locomotives, but unless it has been vastly detailed by a highly skilled craftsman, I will never pay $119 for one again... Does this make me an "amatuer" or educated? Educated, because I know there will always be another... As for being the right forum for offering items for sale... For me, it is NOT! However, I would always be willing to trade.. or buy, if the given the chance.. Being a seller as well as a buyer on eBay, I chose not to sell here... My selling on eBay is how I fund my collecting. Well, I guess that is all I have to say on the matter... Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2855	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.

Let me just say this. I joined up 3 or 4 forums on vintage stuff as that's what I care about. I used to do old car restoration, go to shows (still have 3 old cars), the worst thing someone interested in "the way it was" can see is a late-model GM plant in a restored 1936 Ford. I am not picking (or commenting) on choice of control systems, just want to say if it's original, I sure like to keep them that way if possible. Now, if you're dealing with plastic Bachmann or Rivarrosi, hey, chop away. I've got vintage 2-rail "0" that have the field wound motors removed, but permag K&D's are screwdriver installed, all original parts in boxes so labelled. Right now working on a "vintage" Rivarrosi 2-8-0 (I bought new in 1966, I think) that's gonna need that new motor/drive bit, but it's plastic, so chop away! > > Jay, et al > > Mayhap some can motors may perform better than the good old DC91. But my original Hobbytown E7 just purrs along at the club, regardless of the grade, with a mix of 19 express, mail, baggage, coach, and observation cars. And when you turn up the speed steps, it motivates!! > > I retro-fitted computer tape drive motors (from Pittman) in an Athern PA/PB combo. Pulls the same 19 cars very smoothly and powerfully, but not at passenger train speed. My recently acquired Hobbytown PA with a DC91 runs smoothly on analog dc, and I expect it to do just as well at the club when I get a proper decoder. And at respectable passenger train speed. > > Cost-wise a new quality can motor plus a "regular" decoder is about the same as getting > the bigger decoder. And the DC91 doesn't draw but 4 amps at start-up (I believe its called "in-rush"), and then less than 2a when gliding along. > > You like vanilla, I like chocolate. But please don't "dis" that venerable DC91 power plant > > retired grouch. > > > --------------------------------- > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2856	From: Phillip VanderHeyden	Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.

Is that Hobbytown E7 running the stock gears or the low speed gears? I actually like the DC-71 that has been standard on the pre-can motor hobbytown drives. They work especially well with a hobbytown centrifical clutch. But the DC-91 is the larger motor found on the much older model, isn't it? I was wondering if you had modified the brush arms on the motor to reduce friction. I converted some DC-91s to cans because it was difficult to get them to start running at slow speed. phil Bill Daley wrote: > Jay, et al > > Mayhap some can motors may perform better than the good old DC91. But > my original Hobbytown E7 just purrs along at the club, regardless of > the grade, with a mix of 19 express, mail, baggage, coach, and > observation cars. And when you turn up the speed steps, it motivates!! > > I retro-fitted computer tape drive motors (from Pittman) in an Athern > PA/PB combo. Pulls the same 19 cars very smoothly and powerfully, but > not at passenger train speed. My recently acquired Hobbytown PA with > a DC91 runs smoothly on analog dc, and I expect it to do just as well > at the club when I get a proper decoder. And at respectable passenger > train speed. > > Cost-wise a new quality can motor plus a "regular" decoder is about > the same as getting > the bigger decoder. And the DC91 doesn't draw but 4 amps at start-up > (I believe its called "in-rush"), and then less than 2a when gliding > along. > > You like vanilla, I like chocolate. But please don't "dis" that > venerable DC91 power plant > > retired grouch. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites > <http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097;_ylc=X3oDMTFtNW45amVpBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0wNw--> > to find flight and hotel bargains. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2857	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Glenn, I've seen all three spoken as  called a 'Mike' But only the Mikado is written as a 'Mike'.......... The others get written as 'Mic' ' ....sound just the same. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 23, 2007, at 7:05 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote: Generally is--when referring to a locomotive--when referring to tools, a Micrometer.  Communications--a Microphone-- 8-)  what other definitions does it have?? ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor Still, I am curious as to what a Mike is...? Is it the Mikado? Sean .............. Moderators Don et al:   I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2858	From: oljoeoh	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.

I too have lots of love for that DC91. I have one with a DC71 in it also but it won't do what the DC91 will do. I remember the first time I tried a really long consiste - all of the cars I had and the DC91 just took off without a complaint although the bodu did torque load just a bit when starting. The DC91 was and still is an impressive thing to look at. Joe O'Loughlin (another grouch) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> wrote: > > Jay, et al > > Mayhap some can motors may perform better than the good old DC91. But my original Hobbytown E7 just purrs along at the club, regardless of the grade, with a mix of 19 express, mail, baggage, coach, and observation cars. And when you turn up the speed steps, it motivates!! > > I retro-fitted computer tape drive motors (from Pittman) in an Athern PA/PB combo. Pulls the same 19 cars very smoothly and powerfully, but not at passenger train speed. My recently acquired Hobbytown PA with a DC91 runs smoothly on analog dc, and I expect it to do just as well at the club when I get a proper decoder. And at respectable passenger train speed. > > Cost-wise a new quality can motor plus a "regular" decoder is about the same as getting > the bigger decoder. And the DC91 doesn't draw but 4 amps at start-up (I believe its called "in-rush"), and then less than 2a when gliding along. > > You like vanilla, I like chocolate. But please don't "dis" that venerable DC91 power plant > > retired grouch. > > > --------------------------------- > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2859	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.

Phil, You wrote: "Is that Hobbytown E7 running the stock gears or the low speed gears? I actually like the DC-71 that has been standard on the pre-can motor hobbytown drives. They work especially well with a hobbytown centrifical clutch. But the DC-91 is the larger motor found on the much older model, isn't it? I was wondering if you had modified the brush arms on the motor to reduce friction. I converted some DC-91s to cans because it was difficult to get them to start running at slow speed."  It is exactly as it came from the box. Which I assume would be "stock gears"  because it really flies with a full throttle setting. Best of my knowledge and belief, my unit was made in mid-50s, and hid in a hobby shop basement till it was set free in the early 80s. (I paid $25 for it.)   No modification done to the motor -- unlike a prior DC91 in an F7 chassis for the Globe/Athern plastic shell. "Tweaking" that motor degraded performance originally. A sadder and wiser me finally got it back to almost original performance. Lesson learned-- leave well enough alone. (Although at one point with a multidrive B unit I had the pair inching down the track at 4VDC. That's 8 axles -- 4 gear boxes -- driven by one motor.)   The E7  has no problem starting at slow speed with/without a train behind it.   We have a nasty 4.5% grade at the club and it takes two Broadway E7's to take a decent sized consist  up it. My E7 will zip up it with 19 cars easily. I do believe a few members of the club wish they had a "monster" Hobbytown (with a dummy B unit for a sound decoder).   Regards   Bill Daley   > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites > <http://farechase. yahoo.com/ promo-generic- 14795097; _ylc=X3oDMTFtNW4 5amVpBF9TAzk3NDA 3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk 0ODEEcG9zAzEEc2V jA21haWx0YWdsaW5 lBHNsawNxMS0wNw- -> > to find flight and hotel bargains. > Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2860	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest

Remember to vote in our new cover photo contest now. For the month of February, we have an open poll for all the members to vote on the photo of their choice in the "a contest" album. The winner will be the new cover photo for at least till mid summer.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2861	From: Bill Daley	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > If I may comment. Being an avid eBay user, as well as a collector, I can not help but be bothered by the "amateur wanta-be collectors" remark. Please understand, I am not trying to start trouble, but I do not understand the merit of the remark and would like to. Sure, I am pretty young when compared to mant here in the group, but I know I am not the only one who is still learning what is out there and what has still yet to be learned. As for being an amatuer collector.. ?? what does that mean? Non- professional? If so, then what is a professional collector? Honestly, for myself, I would rather not want to be, nor sell to one.... Un- educated maybe? for a seller, you would think this would be a good thing... Look at all the crappy tyco and bachmann being sold on ebay for obscene amounts of money each day... They tend to be eBay newbies... I would consider them to be good for the sellers... As for myself, I like to think of myself as an educated collector... who is still learning. I see things like Mantua Mikados on eBay all the time.. Their prices range from $25 (damaged or bad description) - $45 (most common) - $70 (very very rarely and usually purchased by a newbie). I also purchased one in a hobby store once for mu nephew's birthday.. I paid $119 for an green GN the very same GN I purchased later on ebay for $36. So, I ask you... Which was better? As for Mantuas.. I love them and think they are great looking and most dependable locomotives, but unless it has been vastly detailed by a highly skilled craftsman, I will never pay $119 for one again... Does this make me an "amatuer" or educated? Educated, because I know there will always be another... As for being the right forum for offering items for sale... For me, it is NOT! However, I would always be willing to trade.. or buy, if the given the chance.. Being a seller as well as a buyer on eBay, I chose not to sell here... My selling on eBay is how I fund my collecting. Well, I guess that is all I have to say on the matter... Sean Sean, Just by having joined the group you have removed yourself from the  amateur newbies. Don't sell yourself short because you are not an old timer. You came to the right place to learn.  Mr Dellman, Ray (erieberk), et al  will disclose much info.....just read the back and forth exchanges and the photos they attach. Those people who don't know anything are exactly why I want to avoid eBay. As you have stated, the unknowing overpay for junk. Perhaps I could realize a bigger price on eBay, but I want my locomotive to go to "a good home",  and the vintage  HO group is comprised of folks who appreciate (and most likely RUN ) older equipment. And just as important, I know I'm dealing with some upstanding people. I did not intend to insult/offend you . However since you feel this is not the place where you wish to do business, should I disregard any offer from you?   Respectfully, retired grouch   Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2862	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Or, more PC from "the day", a "Mac", for "MacArthur". No Hondas in my driveway, no Mikadoes in my trainshed. > > Glenn, > > I've seen all three spoken as called a 'Mike' > > But only the Mikado is written as a 'Mike'.......... The others get > written as 'Mic' ' ....sound just the same. > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Feb 23, 2007, at 7:05 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote: > > > Generally is--when referring to a locomotive--when referring to > > tools, a Micrometer. Communications--a Microphone-- 8-) what > > other definitions does it have?? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sean naylor > > > > Still, I am curious as to what a Mike is...? Is it the Mikado? Sean > .............. > > Moderators Don et al: > > > > I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want > > to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I > > allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2863	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest

I have voted and loaded photos of each of the Penn Line heavy weight passenger car types that I have models of. Take care.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:57 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest   Remember to vote in our new cover photo contest now. For the month of February, we have an open poll for all the members to vote on the photo of their choice in the "a contest" album. The winner will be the new cover photo for at least till mid summer.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2864	From: James B	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Model Train Show, March 11th , Cedarburg, WI

NEW LAYOUTS FEATURED AT TRAIN SHOW Two new model train layouts will be featured at METRO Model Railroad Club's annual railroad show and swap meet. The event is scheduled for Sunday, March 11th at Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg. For the first time, all gauges of model railroading will be represented. One of the new participants is the WIZKidZ, (Wisconsin Illinois Z KidZ) who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so small that a layout can be built in a cigar box, and indeed two cigar box layouts and a much larger layout will be displayed by this group. The Milwaukee `N Southeastern club will bring an N scale layout that has never been shown locally before. It features various scenes of small town America featuring large amounts of vehicles and various eye catching scenes such as a train derailment, train watching park, and many more. METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged best in the nation at the National Train Show. One of the most highly detailed layouts ever built and now freshened up after many years of display, it has many animations and numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will again be bringing a Lionel layout to the show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some of their favorite movie and TV characters, including Buzz and Woody from Toy Story, Mike and Sulley from Monsters Inc., Nemo and his friends, and many more. Other returnees include the Badgerland S Gaugers showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will showing examples of G scale equipment that is most frequently used to create outdoor garden railroads and also some #1 scale trains. The Grandkids Railroad will be on hand with its dazzling display of lights and sounds. In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W and other decals, Cannonball Models of Madison that specializes in N scale, Enginehouse Services of Green Bay, Mullet River & Southern Hobbies, Setco Trains, The Toy Train Depot with a huge selection of railroad video's, as well as many other dealers. The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader. This is the 12th consecutive year for the show, which has become the largest in southeast Wisconsin after Milwaukee's TrainFest. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. Show hours are 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Admission is by a $2 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, and Tires Unlimited Automotive Services. Further details can be obtained by calling Ray Meyer at 262- 284-5566 (rgmeyer2@...) during business hours or by calling Jim Bartelt at 262-284-5876 (jimbartelt@...) at other times James Bartelt jimbartelt@... Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079 METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2865	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.

That Hobbytown PA I mentioned, where I replaced the DC-91 with a Pittman industrial can motor ( about what they're using in O tinplate[late now) was a special case--I bought it on a Coast Div. Auction because it had the DC-91, and a friend was looking for one to replace a smaller Pittman that PFM had used in an O Scale D&RGW C-48 2-8-0.  It was an untouched kit--but the frame had "Zamak Rot".  I sent in the warranty card, that was still with it--and asked about the frame--was told that the frames they now had would not fit the rest of the parts I had--so I whipped up a frame from K&S brass-- Sent the DC-91 to my friend--found out that it had a special brush mount--on the bottom slope--rather than the top--which I guess he was able to return to the standard Pittman configuration.  gj----- Original Message ----- From: oljoeoh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 4:50 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: DC91 motors and DCC. I too have lots of love for that DC91. I have one with a DC71 in it also but it won't do what the DC91 will do. I remember the first time I tried a really long consiste - all of the cars I had and the DC91 just took off without a complaint although the bodu did torque load just a bit when starting. The DC91 was and still is an impressive thing to look at. Joe O'Loughlin (another grouch) --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@ ...> wrote: > > Jay, et al > > Mayhap some can motors may perform better than the good old DC91. But my original Hobbytown E7 just purrs along at the club, regardless of the grade, with a mix of 19 express, mail, baggage, coach, and observation cars. And when you turn up the speed steps, it motivates!! > > I retro-fitted computer tape drive motors (from Pittman) in an Athern PA/PB combo. Pulls the same 19 cars very smoothly and powerfully, but not at passenger train speed. My recently acquired Hobbytown PA with a DC91 runs smoothly on analog dc, and I expect it to do just as well at the club when I get a proper decoder. And at respectable passenger train speed. > > Cost-wise a new quality can motor plus a "regular" decoder is about the same as getting > the bigger decoder. And the DC91 doesn't draw but 4 amps at start-up (I believe its called "in-rush"), and then less than 2a when gliding along. > > You like vanilla, I like chocolate. But please don't "dis" that venerable DC91 power plant > > retired grouch. > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2866	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.

Hobbytown had two sets of spur gears for the tower driven from the motor.  One was normal the other for slower speeds.gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Daley To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] DC91 motors and DCC. Phil, You wrote: "Is that Hobbytown E7 running the stock gears or the low speed gears? I actually like the DC-71 that has been standard on the pre-can motor hobbytown drives. They work especially well with a hobbytown centrifical clutch. But the DC-91 is the larger motor found on the much older model, isn't it? I was wondering if you had modified the brush arms on the motor to reduce friction. I converted some DC-91s to cans because it was difficult to get them to start running at slow speed."  It is exactly as it came from the box. Which I assume would be "stock gears"  because it really flies with a full throttle setting. Best of my knowledge and belief, my unit was made in mid-50s, and hid in a hobby shop basement till it was set free in the early 80s. (I paid $25 for it.)   No modification done to the motor -- unlike a prior DC91 in an F7 chassis for the Globe/Athern plastic shell. "Tweaking" that motor degraded performance originally. A sadder and wiser me finally got it back to almost original performance. Lesson learned-- leave well enough alone. (Although at one point with a multidrive B unit I had the pair inching down the track at 4VDC. That's 8 axles -- 4 gear boxes -- driven by one motor.)   The E7  has no problem starting at slow speed with/without a train behind it.   We have a nasty 4.5% grade at the club and it takes two Broadway E7's to take a decent sized consist  up it. My E7 will zip up it with 19 cars easily. I do believe a few members of the club wish they had a "monster" Hobbytown (with a dummy B unit for a sound decoder).   Regards   Bill Daley   > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites > <http://farechase. yahoo.com/ promo-generic- 14795097; _ylc=X3oDMTFtNW4 5amVpBF9TAzk3NDA 3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk 0ODEEcG9zAzEEc2V jA21haWx0YWdsaW5 lBHNsawNxMS0wNw- -> > to find flight and hotel bargains. > Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2867	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

I think the remark was aimed at the ones who take the approach than "It's old, and it's a train, so it has to be worth a bundle--maybe a bundle and a half".  These are the guys who will pay any price--even though if they checked they could fond it much cheaper, even brand new.   Now, there are those who will pay any price when it comes to that last piece they need to fill out a classification--then there are those of us who will wait for these guys to get theirs, and wait for the demand to drop.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Daley To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: > If I may comment. Being an avid eBay user, as well as a collector, I can not help but be bothered by the "amateur wanta-be collectors" remark. Please understand, I am not trying to start trouble, but I do not understand the merit of the remark and would like to. Sure, I am pretty young when compared to mant here in the group, but I know I am not the only one who is still learning what is out there and what has still yet to be learned. As for being an amatuer collector.. ?? what does that mean? Non- professional? If so, then what is a professional collector? Honestly, for myself, I would rather not want to be, nor sell to one.... Un- educated maybe? for a seller, you would think this would be a good thing... Look at all the crappy tyco and bachmann being sold on ebay for obscene amounts of money each day... They tend to be eBay newbies... I would consider them to be good for the sellers... As for myself, I like to think of myself as an educated collector... who is still learning. I see things like Mantua Mikados on eBay all the time.. Their prices range from $25 (damaged or bad description) - $45 (most common) - $70 (very very rarely and usually purchased by a newbie). I also purchased one in a hobby store once for mu nephew's birthday.. I paid $119 for an green GN the very same GN I purchased later on ebay for $36. So, I ask you... Which was better? As for Mantuas.. I love them and think they are great looking and most dependable locomotives, but unless it has been vastly detailed by a highly skilled craftsman, I will never pay $119 for one again... Does this make me an "amatuer" or educated? Educated, because I know there will always be another... As for being the right forum for offering items for sale... For me, it is NOT! However, I would always be willing to trade.. or buy, if the given the chance.. Being a seller as well as a buyer on eBay, I chose not to sell here... My selling on eBay is how I fund my collecting. Well, I guess that is all I have to say on the matter... Sean Sean, Just by having joined the group you have removed yourself from the  amateur newbies. Don't sell yourself short because you are not an old timer. You came to the right place to learn.  Mr Dellman, Ray (erieberk), et al  will disclose much info.....just read the back and forth exchanges and the photos they attach. Those people who don't know anything are exactly why I want to avoid eBay. As you have stated, the unknowing overpay for junk. Perhaps I could realize a bigger price on eBay, but I want my locomotive to go to "a good home",  and the vintage  HO group is comprised of folks who appreciate (and most likely RUN ) older equipment. And just as important, I know I'm dealing with some upstanding people. I did not intend to insult/offend you . However since you feel this is not the place where you wish to do business, should I disregard any offer from you?   Respectfully, retired grouch   Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2868	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

I must like Mikados--I have 18 at current count.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? Or, more PC from "the day", a "Mac", for "MacArthur". No Hondas in my driveway, no Mikadoes in my trainshed. > > Glenn, > > I've seen all three spoken as called a 'Mike' > > But only the Mikado is written as a 'Mike'...... .... The others get > written as 'Mic' ' ....sound just the same. > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Feb 23, 2007, at 7:05 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote: > > > Generally is--when referring to a locomotive-- when referring to > > tools, a Micrometer. Communications- -a Microphone-- 8-) what > > other definitions does it have?? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sean naylor > > > > Still, I am curious as to what a Mike is...? Is it the Mikado? Sean > ............ .. > > Moderators Don et al: > > > > I have an late 50's/early 60's Mantua Mike for sale and don't want > > to fuss with the "amateur wanta-be collectors" on eBay. Am I > > allowed to make a detailed description announcement to this forum? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2869	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? > Or, more PC from "the day", a "Mac", for "MacArthur". > No Hondas in my driveway, no Mikadoes in my trainshed. > > > >> >> Glenn, And the proper name for a 4-6-4 is a "Baltic", NOT a "Hudson". :-) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2870	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Hmm.... I always thought the proper name for the 4-6-4 was NEVER USED ON THE NORTHERN PACIFIC, but, hey, who am I? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:08 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? > > > > Or, more PC from "the day", a "Mac", for "MacArthur". > > No Hondas in my driveway, no Mikadoes in my trainshed. > > > > > > > >> > >> Glenn, > > And the proper name for a 4-6-4 is a "Baltic", NOT a "Hudson". :-) > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2871	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

The only road I model that had that wheel arrangement called them" Baltics".   And Anything with ten drivers was a "Deck".  SP wouldn't use that other term.  The 3-cylinder 4-10-2's were "Stuttering Decks" for the off-beat exhaust. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? > Or, more PC from "the day", a "Mac", for "MacArthur". > No Hondas in my driveway, no Mikadoes in my trainshed. > > > >> >> Glenn, And the proper name for a 4-6-4 is a "Baltic", NOT a "Hudson". :-) Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2872	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

I had a short stay along the NP when I was 7 rears old--1948. A friend of my Mother's had re-married to a fellow who ran the intake facilities for the City of Tacoma Water Dept.--on the Green River.  NP main ran thru the front yard--As I recall, by then all was diesel except for a log train each way daily.Would wake up in morning just in time to see North Coast Limited disappear westbound. I think we may have visited again in 1950.  by then, all was diesel. A train crewman tossed the daily paper on the front lawn.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 4:25 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? Hmm.... I always thought the proper name for the 4-6-4 was NEVER USED ON THE NORTHERN PACIFIC, but, hey, who am I? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:08 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? > > > > Or, more PC from "the day", a "Mac", for "MacArthur". > > No Hondas in my driveway, no Mikadoes in my trainshed. > > > > > > > >> > >> Glenn, > > And the proper name for a 4-6-4 is a "Baltic", NOT a "Hudson". :-) > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2873	From: wallagus	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Old open frame motors

RE: this link -> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/view/1cef?b=1 Can anybody identify these motors? (posted in the Photos section under HO Salvage Yard) They all came from hobbytown F-units that were set up to fit Globe/Athearn shells. Is one of these the DC-91 we were speaking of earlier? Maybe #1 and #2? They have 5 pole armatures. #3 has 7 poles and runs a bit slower, it also has a fairly good slow speed/start up characteristic. phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2874	From: jay matz	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Old open frame motors

Phil The F-7 power unit had the DC-90 and The E unites had the DC-91. Not saying that they never got switched, When I bought mine in the 50s the F-7 had the DC-90. Jay wallagus <pvande1@...> wrote: RE: this link -> http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ photos/view/ 1cef?b=1 Can anybody identify these motors? (posted in the Photos section under HO Salvage Yard) They all came from hobbytown F-units that were set up to fit Globe/Athearn shells. Is one of these the DC-91 we were speaking of earlier? Maybe #1 and #2? They have 5 pole armatures. #3 has 7 poles and runs a bit slower, it also has a fairly good slow speed/start up characteristic. phil Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2875	From: Dave Slater	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Don, That may be so down there but up here a Royal Hudson is a Royal Hudson, a "Royal Baltic" just doesn't sound right..  LOL Dave S. The Canadian Grouch..  My Railroad picture pages are at www.flickr.com/photos/des-productions Miscellaneous other pictures are at www.flickr.com/photos/des-productions1 New site for Train videos at. http://www.motionbox.com/video/list_user_videos/daves Don Dellmann wrote: And the proper name for a 4-6-4 is a "Baltic", NOT a "Hudson". :-) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/GaCslB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2876	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

>----- Original Message ----- >From: Dave Slater >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 7:34 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? >Don, >That may be so down there but up here a Royal Hudson is a Royal Hudson, a >"Royal Baltic" just doesn't sound right.. LOL >Dave S. >The Canadian Grouch.. I have seen the Baltic name used in Euurope, and I believe the CNJ called their 4-6-4-t's Baltics, but the name was originally applied to the Milwaukee Road F-6's . Unfortunately, even though they were ordered first, the J-1's from that other road in the east were DELIVERD first, so they got to choose the name. An F-6, an F-6a and a streamlined F-7 were NEVER "Hudsons" on the "Road". Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2877	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Hi again, all, After looking in a photo album belonging to some one named Don Dellman, at the Varney coaches (Which I have many of), I am wondering two things: Did they ever make a short (~60 foot) heavyweight observation car? I have a baggage, couple of combines, and plenty of coaches, and an sleeper which I'll get to in a moment, but have NEVER seen a paper and wood observation car. Was one ever made for the shorties? I had a wood and metal one with parlor car style windows, but it was not a Varney- the body's sides lower half were wood, and window strips metal. Sadly it was crunched about a year ago. Didn't really match the Varney's anyway. Now for my pullman sleeper, it reminds me of the last pic of the red round roof car, that is said to be from pre WWII era. Mine is cellulose sides with no embossings, all printed detail (Which is just gorgeous, you'd think it were 3d!, and is marked Pullman on the road name board, with a car name of Sitting Bull. Something I picked up from eBay. Never seen one like it before, so I figured I best snap it up lest I never see one again! My pullman has Varney trucks, and a round roof (Not clearstory). Anyone know anything? My camera is giving me fits right now, but I will try to get some pics out soon.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2878	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 9:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches > Hi again, all, > > After looking in a photo album belonging to some one named Don > Dellman, at the Varney coaches (Which I have many of), I am wondering > two things: Did they ever make a short (~60 foot) heavyweight > observation car? I have a baggage, couple of combines, and plenty of > coaches, and an sleeper which I'll get to in a moment, but have NEVER > seen a paper and wood observation car. Was one ever made for the > shorties? I had a wood and metal one with parlor car style windows, > but it was not a Varney- the body's sides lower half were wood, and > window strips metal. Sadly it was crunched about a year ago. Didn't > really match the Varney's anyway. > The only post war card shorty's I'm aware of in Varney were the coach and combine (which I believe are based on the C&NW "Utility" commuter cars), the Pullman was scale length. If you don't mind mixing materials, Walthers had their "Pug" series of 56' cars in all metal with a molded plastic roof. > Now for my pullman sleeper, it reminds me of the last pic of the red > round roof car, that is said to be from pre WWII era. Mine is > cellulose sides with no embossings, all printed detail (Which is just > gorgeous, you'd think it were 3d!, and is marked Pullman on the road > name board, with a car name of Sitting Bull. Something I picked up > from eBay. Never seen one like it before, so I figured I best snap it > up lest I never see one again! My pullman has Varney trucks, and a > round roof (Not clearstory). Anyone know anything? > > My camera is giving me fits right now, but I will try to get some pics > out soon. > Your pullman sounds almost exactly like mine other than the name. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2879	From: Jay Matz	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Mantua 2-8-2

Group The first Mike was in 48/49 all metal DC-72 motor gear box, 4 wheel tender trucks, deep coal bunker in tender.Brass tires second Mike 1952 all metal DC-72 motor gear box, 6 wheel tender trucks,shallow coal bunker. Brass tires (both early Mikes some had DC-71 motor depended what was avable) The later Mike had plastic cab, pilot,tender and DC-60 motor no gear box. plated tires Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2880	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

As far as I know........ The Lifelike plastic heavy-weight shorties are the later Varney dies. So it could be said that Varney had the short Observation in their later line. I modded one of those observations into a work car in the late sixties. I don't know if it was an labeled Varney or a Lifelike version. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 26, 2007, at 6:57 AM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "railwaymodeler" >> Hi again, all, >> >> After looking in a photo album belonging to some one named Don >> Dellman, at the Varney coaches (Which I have many of), I am wondering >> two things: Did they ever make a short (~60 foot) heavyweight >> observation car? I have a baggage, couple of combines, and plenty of >> coaches, and an sleeper which I'll get to in a moment, but have NEVER >> seen a paper and wood observation car. Was one ever made for the >> shorties? I had a wood and metal one with parlor car style windows, >> but it was not a Varney- the body's sides lower half were wood, and >> window strips metal. Sadly it was crunched about a year ago. Didn't >> really match the Varney's anyway. >> > > The only post war card shorty's I'm aware of in Varney were the > coach and > combine (which I believe are based on the C&NW "Utility" commuter > cars), the > Pullman was scale length. If you don't mind mixing materials, > Walthers had > their "Pug" series of 56' cars in all metal with a molded plastic > roof. > >> Now for my pullman sleeper, it reminds me of the last pic of the red >> round roof car, that is said to be from pre WWII era. Mine is >> cellulose sides with no embossings, all printed detail (Which is just >> gorgeous, you'd think it were 3d!, and is marked Pullman on the road >> name board, with a car name of Sitting Bull. Something I picked up >> from eBay. Never seen one like it before, so I figured I best snap it >> up lest I never see one again! My pullman has Varney trucks, and a >> round roof (Not clearstory). Anyone know anything? >> >> My camera is giving me fits right now, but I will try to get some >> pics >> out soon. >> > Your pullman sounds almost exactly like mine other than the name. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2881	From: jay matz	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Morning I rember back in the 50s my dad had a set of coaches that were embossed cardboard sides with wood roofs and metal ends, that were not Varney or Walthers. At that time there were other companys that made passenger cars of simler construction. don't rember who. just rember there were more companys. Jay Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2882	From: rcjge	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

Guys: I've only been on here a little while and while I own several pieces of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of Mantua Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while I find his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd way I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of Tyco/Mantua stuff for a song. People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a particular time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music from my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their parents playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my first model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still have) it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to fan yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys on the Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, it's about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire away. Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll bet it isn't one you'd be proud of. In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to further my knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an either or situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play Rugby on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. All of the above of course is just one opinion Cheers, Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2883	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Railway Modeler and Don D: My Varney 1941 catalog (10 cents), depicts three 'shorty' cars; Combination Baggage - Coach, Coach and a Pullman, all with clearestory roofs and colored celluloid sides in Red or Green. Kit numbers for Tuscan Red Cars PA-301 thru 306 were marked: Concord, Saratoga, Ranger, Minute Man, Vigilante and Tlllamook, respectively. The Green Cars PA-307 - 315 were marked: Concord, Saratoga, Ranger, Minute Man, Vigilante, Tillamook, Medicine Hat, Sitting Bull and Rancho Grande, respectively. I have cars PA-307 Concord and PA-309 Ranger. The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller bearing trucks. PA-300, was the full length Pullman Car which came with embossed paper sides, printed in Pullman color. I do have one of those with six wheel Commonwealth Trucks. The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller bearing trucks. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2884	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

Touche ( with that little diacritical mark...............:-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ Refi Now: Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-17727&moid=7581

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2885	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

J. C. Silver Sides was one of those, I have seen PRR and Norfolk Westerm examples. Roger Aultman jay matz wrote: > Morning > I rember back in the 50s my dad had a set of coaches that were embossed > cardboard sides with wood roofs and metal ends, that were not Varney or > Walthers. > At that time there were other companys that made passenger cars of > simler construction. don't rember who. just rember there were more companys. > Jay > > Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > > > ? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2886	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

Far be it from me to needlessly offend anyone's sensitivities, I hope that I never have here. I have had some of Tyco's  latest brown box models. I was not particularly impressed with them, the locomotives were particularly disapointing. They ran poorly or not at all and I was not able to convenietly locate parts for them. I bought it all used, that likely did not help much. Of couse they were out of production by then so lack of parts was not surprising. I have been told that the earlier models were of better quality, but I have never had one. I sold what I did have on ebay, I hope my customers were as pleased with their purchaes as you seem to be with your Tyco models. I know that I was very pleased to convert my personal Tyco collection back to cash.   Wobbly913 rcjge <rcjge@...> wrote: Guys: I've only been on here a little while and while I own several pieces of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of Mantua Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while I find his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd way I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of Tyco/Mantua stuff for a song. People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a particular time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music from my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their parents playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my first model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still have) it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to fan yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys on the Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, it's about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire away. Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll bet it isn't one you'd be proud of. In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to further my knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an either or situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play Rugby on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. All of the above of course is just one opinion Cheers, Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/kOt0.A/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/GaCslB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2887	From: rcjge	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

HI: Certainly, nothing wrong with that. It's the adjective "crap" as a characterization that I object to. I have a `63 Honda Dream motorcycle that was the Atlas Train of it day. I have Atlas & Kato loco's as well as some of the Vintage stuff I mentioned. I enjoy it. I also like Gabriel Faure as opposed to Brittney (sp?) Spears. Matter of taste. Enjoy all. Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > > Far be it from me to needlessly offend anyone's sensitivities, I hope that I never have here. I have had some of Tyco's latest brown box models. I was not particularly impressed with them, the locomotives were particularly disapointing. They ran poorly or not at all and I was not able to convenietly locate parts for them. I bought it all used, that likely did not help much. Of couse they were out of production by then so lack of parts was not surprising. I have been told that the earlier models were of better quality, but I have never had one. I sold what I did have on ebay, I hope my customers were as pleased with their purchaes as you seem to be with your Tyco models. I know that I was very pleased to convert my personal Tyco collection back to cash. > > Wobbly913 ***Top Posted***Response Above

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2888	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, DLeistikow@... wrote: > > Railway Modeler and Don D: My Varney 1941 catalog (10 cents), depicts > three 'shorty' cars; Combination Baggage - Coach, Coach and a Pullman, > all with clearestory roofs and colored celluloid sides in Red or Green. > > Kit numbers for Tuscan Red Cars PA-301 thru 306 were marked: Concord, > Saratoga, Ranger, Minute Man, Vigilante and Tlllamook, respectively. > > The Green Cars PA-307 - 315 were marked: Concord, Saratoga, Ranger, > Minute Man, Vigilante, Tillamook, Medicine Hat, Sitting Bull and Rancho > Grande, respectively. I have cars PA-307 Concord and PA-309 Ranger. > The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller bearing trucks. > > PA-300, was the full length Pullman Car which came with embossed paper > sides, printed in Pullman color. I do have one of those with six wheel > Commonwealth Trucks. The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller > bearing trucks. > > Don L. > I have posted complete copies of both the 1939 and 1941 Varney catalogs at: http://www.hoseeker.com for everyones perusal. Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2889	From: oahurailway	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> wrote: > > > > > > I have posted complete copies of both the 1939 and 1941 Varney > catalogs at: http://www.hoseeker.com for everyones perusal. Ken > Correction: that should be: http://www.hoseeker.net for the postings of the 1939 & 1941 Varney catalogs. Sorry! Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2890	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

----- Original Message ----- From: <DLeistikow@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches > Railway Modeler and Don D: My Varney 1941 catalog (10 cents), depicts > three 'shorty' cars; Combination Baggage - Coach, Coach and a Pullman, > all with clearestory roofs and colored celluloid sides in Red or Green. > > Kit numbers for Tuscan Red Cars PA-301 thru 306 were marked: Concord, > Saratoga, Ranger, Minute Man, Vigilante and Tlllamook, respectively. > > The Green Cars PA-307 - 315 were marked: Concord, Saratoga, Ranger, > Minute Man, Vigilante, Tillamook, Medicine Hat, Sitting Bull and Rancho > Grande, respectively. I have cars PA-307 Concord and PA-309 Ranger. > The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller bearing trucks. > > PA-300, was the full length Pullman Car which came with embossed paper > sides, printed in Pullman color. I do have one of those with six wheel > Commonwealth Trucks. The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller > bearing trucks. > > Don L. > Mine is the "Ranger" in Tuscan. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2891	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches > As far as I know........ > > The Lifelike plastic heavy-weight shorties are the later Varney dies. > > So it could be said that Varney had the short Observation in their > later line. > > I modded one of those observations into a work car in the late > sixties. I don't know if it was an labeled Varney or a Lifelike version. > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA Those are actually the ex PennLine cars, which in turn descended from the HObbyline units. Whatever Bowser DIDN'T get from Penn Line, Varney did, then in turn, when Varney broke up, Bowser got some, LifeLike got the rest. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2892	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

>----- Original Message ----- >From: jay matz >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:45 AM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches >Morning >I rember back in the 50s my dad had a set of coaches that were embossed >cardboard sides with wood roofs and metal ends, that were not Varney or >Walthers. >At that time there were other companys that made passenger cars of simler >construction. don't rember who. just rember there were more companys. >Jay I don't know what the construction was on the "JC Silver Sides" cars was, I never had any, but I have on the desk in front of me a Pennsylvania arch roof coach that has embossed heavy foil sides, with roof, ends and floor of wood, that has been fairly positively identified as a "Megow" car. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2893	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

----- Original Message ----- From: <DLeistikow@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches > Railway Modeler and Don D: My Varney 1941 catalog (10 cents), depicts > three 'shorty' cars; Combination Baggage - Coach, Coach and a Pullman, > all with clearestory roofs and colored celluloid sides in Red or Green. > > Kit numbers for Tuscan Red Cars PA-301 thru 306 were marked: Concord, > Saratoga, Ranger, Minute Man, Vigilante and Tlllamook, respectively. > > The Green Cars PA-307 - 315 were marked: Concord, Saratoga, Ranger, > Minute Man, Vigilante, Tillamook, Medicine Hat, Sitting Bull and Rancho > Grande, respectively. I have cars PA-307 Concord and PA-309 Ranger. > The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller bearing trucks. > > PA-300, was the full length Pullman Car which came with embossed paper > sides, printed in Pullman color. I do have one of those with six wheel > Commonwealth Trucks. The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller > bearing trucks. > > Don L. I almost bid on one of the PA-300's on eBay just in the last week or two, but it got out to more than I wanted to pay for it.. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2894	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <DLeistikow@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches > > > > Railway Modeler and Don D: My Varney 1941 catalog (10 cents), depicts > > three 'shorty' cars; Combination Baggage - Coach, Coach and a Pullman, > > all with clearestory roofs and colored celluloid sides in Red or Green. > > > > Kit numbers for Tuscan Red Cars PA-301 thru 306 were marked: Concord, > > Saratoga, Ranger, Minute Man, Vigilante and Tlllamook, respectively. > > > > The Green Cars PA-307 - 315 were marked: Concord, Saratoga, Ranger, > > Minute Man, Vigilante, Tillamook, Medicine Hat, Sitting Bull and Rancho > > Grande, respectively. I have cars PA-307 Concord and PA-309 Ranger. > > The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller bearing trucks. > > > > PA-300, was the full length Pullman Car which came with embossed paper > > sides, printed in Pullman color. I do have one of those with six wheel > > Commonwealth Trucks. The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller > > bearing trucks. > > > > Don L. > > I almost bid on one of the PA-300's on eBay just in the last week or two, > but it got out to more than I wanted to pay for it.. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > Sorry I haven't been able to jump back in sooner. I had the day off from work, and have been completely rebuilding my HO scale layout. Some of the pinewood frame had cracked and to replace it, I had to take up the table top, and figured I may as well build a whole new layout (I was getting tired of my old trackplan anyway). As for the straight out shorty baggage car I mentioned, I no longer think it is a Varney, after reading the posts. It has a wider clearstory than cars I KNOW are varney. Still, the embossed paper sides match pretty well... My camera is still down, the hinge pin for the battery door is broke, and I need to rig a fix till I can get a replacement camera. Hopefully this will be fixed soon. Otherwise I would post some pics. The embossed tin side coaches sound familair. I had a mail car with tin sides, embossed, and wood roof, floor, and ends, until I came up strapped for cash and traded it. I managed to keep the good trucks and put on a set of out of alignment Rail Chiefs streamliner trucks (The metal ones with brass wheels) before selling it, so I have the original trucks from that, under a Santa Fe coach right now. Let me say, I am impressed with the knowledge of you guys out there. I'm pretty recreational and laid back in my enjoyment of the hobby. All I do is get the old stuff running, using old parts wherever I can, or reasonable facsimilies, put on a Glenn Miller 78 RPM Bluebird seal, and enjoy the evening. Good times! -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2895	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

AHhhhh......... Was it Penn-Line that had the aluminum bodied Crusader 4-6-2 ??? It's on my One-Day list............ Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 26, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bauers" > > >> As far as I know........ >> >> The Lifelike plastic heavy-weight shorties are the later Varney dies. >> >> So it could be said that Varney had the short Observation in their >> later line. >> >> I modded one of those observations into a work car in the late >> sixties. I don't know if it was an labeled Varney or a Lifelike >> version. >> >> Best to ya' >> Mike Bauers >> Milwaukee Wi, USA > > Those are actually the ex PennLine cars, which in turn descended > from the > HObbyline units. > > Whatever Bowser DIDN'T get from Penn Line, Varney did, then in > turn, when > Varney broke up, Bowser got some, LifeLike got the rest. > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2896	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches (text bobbitted) > Sorry I haven't been able to jump back in sooner. I had the day off > from work, and have been completely rebuilding my HO scale layout. > Some of the pinewood frame had cracked and to replace it, I had to > take up the table top, and figured I may as well build a whole new > layout (I was getting tired of my old trackplan anyway). > > As for the straight out shorty baggage car I mentioned, I no longer > think it is a Varney, after reading the posts. It has a wider > clearstory than cars I KNOW are varney. Still, the embossed paper > sides match pretty well... > > My camera is still down, the hinge pin for the battery door is broke, > and I need to rig a fix till I can get a replacement camera. Hopefully > this will be fixed soon. Otherwise I would post some pics. > > The embossed tin side coaches sound familair. I had a mail car with > tin sides, embossed, and wood roof, floor, and ends, until I came up > strapped for cash and traded it. I managed to keep the good trucks and > put on a set of out of alignment Rail Chiefs streamliner trucks (The > metal ones with brass wheels) before selling it, so I have the > original trucks from that, under a Santa Fe coach right now. > > Let me say, I am impressed with the knowledge of you guys out there. > I'm pretty recreational and laid back in my enjoyment of the hobby. > All I do is get the old stuff running, using old parts wherever I can, > or reasonable facsimilies, put on a Glenn Miller 78 RPM Bluebird > seal, and enjoy the evening. Good times! > > -Steve I do the same thing, except in my case it's more likely a stack of Connie Francis 45's <G>. I'm far from a purist when it comes to old pieces, I too do what I can to get them on the layout. Just this weekend I decided that the original trucks on the 1940's Mantuas just aren't hacking it in operation, so with regret, they're getting Athearn or Walthers sideframes and Intermountain wheels. I've had cars with doors missing, I find doors in the scrap box that fit so I use them. If the paint is bad on a vintage piece, unless it's REALLY rare (which I've found very few of these are), I'll repaint it in my own road name. All my cars get Kadees (although some are still original "K" series, so I've started doing "gladhandectomies" on the cars and I'm switching to the "bamboo skewer" method of uncoupling, so Kadee K, MK, MKD and even the old Model Die Casting mechanical knuckles all work together) As far as the knowledge, that's one of the most gratifing things I've found on this list, of all the lists I moderate or belong to, this one's my absolute favorite. Ask virtually any question, post of picture of almost any model, and somebody here will know. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2897	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

The JC pass. cars I have, have milled bass wood roof/floor, cast ends, and plated tin sides (“silver sides”) – much as the old Walthers cars were.  No trucks/couplers-you had to buy what you wanted separately.   JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 5:44 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches   >----- Original Message ----- >From: jay matz >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:45 AM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches >Morning >I rember back in the 50s my dad had a set of coaches that were embossed >cardboard sides with wood roofs and metal ends, that were not Varney or >Walthers. >At that time there were other companys that made passenger cars of simler >construction. don't rember who. just rember there were more companys. >Jay I don't know what the construction was on the "JC Silver Sides" cars was, I never had any, but I have on the desk in front of me a Pennsylvania arch roof coach that has embossed heavy foil sides, with roof, ends and floor of wood, that has been fairly positively identified as a "Megow" car. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2898	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Attachments : I dug out a kit #HO 2M 70 ft Penn Coach by JC, the sides appear to be aluminum, not attracted to magnet though they are metal. Seems that I had once assembled one with a sort of laminated side, fiber and foil perhaps. Roger Aultman > > > I don't know what the construction was on the "JC Silver Sides" cars was, I > never had any, but I have on the desk in front of me a Pennsylvania arch > roof coach that has embossed heavy foil sides, with roof, ends and floor of > wood, that has been fairly positively identified as a "Megow" car. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2899	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches

Roger, Thanks for the photo.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Roger Aultman Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:18 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches   I dug out a kit #HO 2M 70 ft Penn Coach by JC, the sides appear to be aluminum, not attracted to magnet though they are metal. Seems that I had once assembled one with a sort of laminated side, fiber and foil perhaps. Roger Aultman > > > I don't know what the construction was on the "JC Silver Sides" cars was, I > never had any, but I have on the desk in front of me a Pennsylvania arch > roof coach that has embossed heavy foil sides, with roof, ends and floor of > wood, that has been fairly positively identified as a "Megow" car. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ prodigy.net > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2900	From: jay matz	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Mike Penn-Line came out with the Crusader in 1937, Have one all apart and one mint in the desplay case. Jay Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: AHhhhh...... ... Was it Penn-Line that had the aluminum bodied Crusader 4-6-2 ??? It's on my One-Day list........ .... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 26, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bauers" > > >> As far as I know........ >> >> The Lifelike plastic heavy-weight shorties are the later Varney dies. >> >> So it could be said that Varney had the short Observation in their >> later line. >> >> I modded one of those observations into a work car in the late >> sixties. I don't know if it was an labeled Varney or a Lifelike >> version. >> >> Best to ya' >> Mike Bauers >> Milwaukee Wi, USA > > Those are actually the ex PennLine cars, which in turn descended > from the > HObbyline units. > > Whatever Bowser DIDN'T get from Penn Line, Varney did, then in > turn, when > Varney broke up, Bowser got some, LifeLike got the rest. > > Don Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2901	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Wm. K. Walthers produced a pre-War Milwaukee Road F-6 Baltic model both in H0 and in 0 Guages. As far as I know, although they planned to produce other types of steam engines in HO after the War, they never did come out with any (except for 0 Guage) and they discontinued their H0 Baltic when they resumed their production in 1946; a Varney V-1 engine was used to power it. Always had one on my "want" list (in H0) but never saw one. As for the CNJ's 4-6-4T H- 1s this was designated as their "Suburban" Class. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I have seen the Baltic name used in Euurope, and I believe the CNJ called > their 4-6-4-t's Baltics, but the name was originally applied to the > Milwaukee Road > F-6's . Unfortunately, even though they were ordered first, the J- 1's from > that other road in the east were DELIVERD first, so they got to choose the > name. > An F-6, an F-6a and a streamlined F-7 were NEVER "Hudsons" on the "Road". > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2902	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches

Very impressive layout you have. Roger Chuck Higdon wrote: > Roger, > > Thanks for the photo. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Roger Aultman > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:18 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches > > > > I dug out a kit #HO 2M 70 ft Penn Coach by JC, the sides appear to be > aluminum, > not attracted to magnet though they are metal. Seems that I had once > assembled > one with a sort of laminated side, fiber and foil perhaps. Roger Aultman > >> >> >> I don't know what the construction was on the "JC Silver Sides" cars > was, I >> never had any, but I have on the desk in front of me a Pennsylvania arch >> roof coach that has embossed heavy foil sides, with roof, ends and > floor of >> wood, that has been fairly positively identified as a "Megow" car. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > <http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann> >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> >> Co-owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm > <http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm> > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/> > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2903	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

As you may have suspected, your Pullman "Sitting Bull" is pre-War and is a Varney; kit # PA-314. Nice find! As I believe was pointed out here somewhere, Varney never did make a shorty Observation, but there were a number of other manufacturers who did, which you could use to match it up, although no one else made the Celluloid sides. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi again, all, > > After looking in a photo album belonging to some one named Don > Dellman, at the Varney coaches (Which I have many of), I am wondering > two things: Did they ever make a short (~60 foot) heavyweight > observation car? I have a baggage, couple of combines, and plenty of > coaches, and an sleeper which I'll get to in a moment, but have NEVER > seen a paper and wood observation car. Was one ever made for the > shorties? I had a wood and metal one with parlor car style windows, > but it was not a Varney- the body's sides lower half were wood, and > window strips metal. Sadly it was crunched about a year ago. Didn't > really match the Varney's anyway. > > Now for my pullman sleeper, it reminds me of the last pic of the red > round roof car, that is said to be from pre WWII era. Mine is > cellulose sides with no embossings, all printed detail (Which is just > gorgeous, you'd think it were 3d!, and is marked Pullman on the road > name board, with a car name of Sitting Bull. Something I picked up > from eBay. Never seen one like it before, so I figured I best snap it > up lest I never see one again! My pullman has Varney trucks, and a > round roof (Not clearstory). Anyone know anything? > > My camera is giving me fits right now, but I will try to get some pics > out soon. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2904	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

I collect and operate trains in most scales and gauges, by most manufacturers and appreciate and enjoy them for what they are.  I have quite a large collection of Tyco trains which when properly maintained run just fine for what they were designed for. (Not everyone likes to do maintenance.)  My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great.  I can't bash the guys that only own a certain vintage, brass or RTR high-dollar plastic, because I own and enjoy those for what they are too. Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: Far be it from me to needlessly offend anyone's sensitivities, I hope that I never have here. I have had some of Tyco's  latest brown box models. I was not particularly impressed with them, the locomotives were particularly disapointing. They ran poorly or not at all and I was not able to convenietly locate parts for them. I bought it all used, that likely did not help much. Of couse they were out of production by then so lack of parts was not surprising. I have been told that the earlier models were of better quality, but I have never had one. I sold what I did have on ebay, I hope my customers were as pleased with their purchaes as you seem to be with your Tyco models. I know that I was very pleased to convert my personal Tyco collection back to cash.   Wobbly913 rcjge <rcjge@yahoo. ca> wrote: Guys: I've only been on here a little while and while I own several pieces of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of Mantua Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while I find his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd way I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of Tyco/Mantua stuff for a song. People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a particular time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music from my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their parents playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my first model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still have) it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to fan yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys on the Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, it's about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire away. Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll bet it isn't one you'd be proud of. In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to further my knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an either or situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play Rugby on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. All of the above of course is just one opinion Cheers, Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.) ------------ --------- --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------ --------~ --> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click. yahoo.com/ kOt0.A/gOaOAA/ yQLSAA/GaCslB/ TM ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2905	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Don, I believe you're right on Varney's shorties being based on the C&NW "Utility" commutor cars. I seem to recall reading that somewhere, maybe in one of the catalogs, but I just can't pinpoint it right now. As for the Pullman being scale length, you are probably thinking about the # PA-300 kit, which was made after the War. All of the pre- War Pullmans (# PA-301 though # PA-315) were 64'. Incidentally, the pre-War Combination Baggage-Coach (#PA-10) and the Day Coach (#PA- 20), both 60', were described in the catalogs as being "Full Scale Size." I guess this just means that they were a full scale size for a shorty car (lol), not that they were a scale full size. The post- War card-side shorties were cataloged as Combination Baggage-Smoker #PA-30 and Day Coach #PA-40, still 60'. Another choice for a shorter Observation car might be Walthers Executive Car, which is a 70' Obs; a bit longer than the 60 footers, but still much shorter than a full length car. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > The only post war card shorty's I'm aware of in Varney were the coach and > combine (which I believe are based on the C&NW "Utility" commuter cars), the > Pullman was scale length. If you don't mind mixing materials, Walthers had > their "Pug" series of 56' cars in all metal with a molded plastic roof. > > > Now for my pullman sleeper, it reminds me of the last pic of the red > > round roof car, that is said to be from pre WWII era. Mine is > > cellulose sides with no embossings, all printed detail (Which is just > > gorgeous, you'd think it were 3d!, and is marked Pullman on the road > > name board, with a car name of Sitting Bull. Something I picked up > > from eBay. Never seen one like it before, so I figured I best snap it > > up lest I never see one again! My pullman has Varney trucks, and a > > round roof (Not clearstory). Anyone know anything? > > > > My camera is giving me fits right now, but I will try to get some pics > > out soon. > > > Your pullman sounds almost exactly like mine other than the name. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2906	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Jay, There were a good number of kit manufacturers back then that produced cars of similar construction, although as far as I can recall, only one other made their kits with embossed cardstock sides and that was Megow. Their catalogs show a full length Pennsylvania RR passenger Coach (kit #Q-27) with the same material. Oddly, their catalogs through succeeding years show only the one passenger car (coach) being offered. Can't say whether or not they had other similar cars, since I don't have a complete collection of their catalogs (if they would even show more), although they did have a nice line of freight cars. Some other companies which made H0 passenger cars of similar construction but with different material are: Walthers (of course -- even back then -- 1950), Central Lines (molded copper sides), Chester (stamped aluminum sides), Ambroid (scribed wood sides), J.C. Models (stamped aluminum sides), Super Scale (etched and stamped copper on lead sides) and Laconia ("micro-embossed" aluminum sides). Then, we can't forget both Blue Line and American Beauty (American Railroad Models) for the best in similar construction streamlined cars. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: > > Morning > I rember back in the 50s my dad had a set of coaches that were embossed cardboard sides with wood roofs and metal ends, that were not Varney or Walthers. > At that time there were other companys that made passenger cars of simler construction. don't rember who. just rember there were more companys. > Jay > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2907	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Don, Yes, the celluloid side (pre-War) Combination Baggage-Coach was #PA-10 and the Day Coach was #PA-20, which I previously mentioned but is good info for those collectors looking for this stuff. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, DLeistikow@... wrote: > > Railway Modeler and Don D: My Varney 1941 catalog (10 cents), depicts > three 'shorty' cars; Combination Baggage - Coach, Coach and a Pullman, > all with clearestory roofs and colored celluloid sides in Red or Green. > > Kit numbers for Tuscan Red Cars PA-301 thru 306 were marked: Concord, > Saratoga, Ranger, Minute Man, Vigilante and Tlllamook, respectively. > > The Green Cars PA-307 - 315 were marked: Concord, Saratoga, Ranger, > Minute Man, Vigilante, Tillamook, Medicine Hat, Sitting Bull and Rancho > Grande, respectively. I have cars PA-307 Concord and PA-309 Ranger. > The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller bearing trucks. > > PA-300, was the full length Pullman Car which came with embossed paper > sides, printed in Pullman color. I do have one of those with six wheel > Commonwealth Trucks. The Shorty Cars all came with four wheel roller > bearing trucks. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2908	From: erieberk	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Hi Roger, These cars turn out just spectacular when they are properly done. I met the owner of this line of kits at a train meet back in the late ' 70's. He did a complete line of his kits for display there as CNJ Blue Comet cars -- I was drooling. His catalog sheets depict his heavyweight lines as PRR and Norfolk & Western prototypes as well as New York Central, both 70' and 80' depending on what its modeled after and including some shorter cars, all prototypical, except for two. He did produce two different 60' Observations (these two -- non- prototypical) -- could be mixed with Varney -- as well as a 70' NYC Obs and an 80' Pullman 4-Compartment Observation Lounge -- PRR. All together there were 19 different monitor and round roof cars. He had a nice line of 14 different smooth side (7) and corregated side (7) streamlined cars also, in both H0 and S Guages. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: > > J. C. Silver Sides was one of those, I have seen PRR and Norfolk Westerm > examples. Roger Aultman > > > > > jay matz wrote: > > Morning > > I rember back in the 50s my dad had a set of coaches that were embossed > > cardboard sides with wood roofs and metal ends, that were not Varney or > > Walthers. > > At that time there were other companys that made passenger cars of > > simler construction. don't rember who. just rember there were more companys. > > Jay > > > > Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > ? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > > > > > -- > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2909	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

TYCO or Mantua? BIG difference. Later TYCO stuff was bad. I could take pictures and show you. All of my die-cast steamers say Mantua. I strongly suspect "My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great" is a Mantua, not a TYCO. > > I collect and operate trains in most scales and gauges, by most manufacturers and appreciate and enjoy them for what they are. > I have quite a large collection of Tyco trains which when properly maintained run just fine for what they were designed for. (Not everyone likes to do maintenance.) > My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great. > I can't bash the guys that only own a certain vintage, brass or RTR high-dollar plastic, because I own and enjoy those for what they are too. > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > Far be it from me to needlessly offend anyone's sensitivities, I hope that I never have here. I have had some of Tyco's latest brown box models. I was not particularly impressed with them, the locomotives were particularly disapointing. They ran poorly or not at all and I was not able to convenietly locate parts for them. I bought it all used, that likely did not help much. Of couse they were out of production by then so lack of parts was not surprising. I have been told that the earlier models were of better quality, but I have never had one. I sold what I did have on ebay, I hope my customers were as pleased with their purchaes as you seem to be with your Tyco models. I know that I was very pleased to convert my personal Tyco collection back to cash. > > Wobbly913 > > > rcjge <rcjge@...> wrote: > Guys: > > I've only been on here a little while and while I own several pieces > of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a > collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of Mantua > Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version > Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. > > I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while I find > his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd way > I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and > thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of Tyco/Mantua > stuff for a song. > > People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a particular > time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music from > my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their parents > playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my first > model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still have) > it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco > Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to fan > yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys on the > Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, it's > about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. > > If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire away. > Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll bet > it isn't one you'd be proud of. > > In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to further my > knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an either or > situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play Rugby > on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. > > All of the above of course is just one opinion > > Cheers, > Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.) > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2910	From: erieberk	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

As pointed out by Roger, the car sides of J.C. Silver Sides were embossed (& punched) aluminum and as the catalog sheets read are: 12/1000 to 16/1000 in. thick. Your Megow car is the one I mentioned earlier -- Kit No. Q-27, the PRR arch roof coach which is the only passenger car listed in a number of their catalogs. It remains to be seen whether they continued this line. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I don't know what the construction was on the "JC Silver Sides" cars was, I > never had any, but I have on the desk in front of me a Pennsylvania arch > roof coach that has embossed heavy foil sides, with roof, ends and floor of > wood, that has been fairly positively identified as a "Megow" car. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2911	From: erieberk	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Mike, Don't get too discouraged, but be ever-more vigilant (and be ready to part with some bread if you ever find one). As I understand it, only about 200 of these babies were ever made. As Jay has two and I have three, that leaves 195 left out there. I saw two listed on eBay last year. One was mint and went for $1200+ and the other was average but nice and went for $900+. They were produced by Nickle Plate Products about 20 years ago, with and without the 5 car set, but its the vintage part of those ones which were produced by Penn Line Models that make them all the more appreciated. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > AHhhhh......... > > Was it Penn-Line that had the aluminum bodied Crusader 4-6-2 ??? > > It's on my One-Day list............ > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Feb 26, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Bauers" > > > > > >> As far as I know........ > >> > >> The Lifelike plastic heavy-weight shorties are the later Varney dies. > >> > >> So it could be said that Varney had the short Observation in their > >> later line. > >> > >> I modded one of those observations into a work car in the late > >> sixties. I don't know if it was an labeled Varney or a Lifelike > >> version. > >> > >> Best to ya' > >> Mike Bauers > >> Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > > Those are actually the ex PennLine cars, which in turn descended > > from the > > HObbyline units. > > > > Whatever Bowser DIDN'T get from Penn Line, Varney did, then in > > turn, when > > Varney broke up, Bowser got some, LifeLike got the rest. > > > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2912	From: erieberk	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

Gareth, If there are a few seemingly disrespectful members around here, I'm sure they're well in the minority, and may only be using the phrase as a comparison of some of the less desireable Tyco pieces to some other brands which may operate better. I would hope these adjectives used about some of these pieces are not meant as an insult to those collectors of this line of products, even if it might seem that way. I think that we all have our preferences when it comes to what we collect. There are vintage items I wouldn't be caught dead with, but I can respect those who collect these same items and know that they are serious in collecting them. As the old saying goes . . "Each to his own," or whatever floats your boat. I'm sure some of these collectors might think it a little strange of me for collecting some of the stuff I do -- (I just don't tell them! -- I know my stuff's better anyhow -- LOL). Surprisingly so, I've learned early on when I was building some of these Tyco engines back in the ' 70's that when put together with care, they can run more than quite reliably. While the Tyco Pacifics and Mikados cannot be expected to be the same quality as their earlier Mantua counterparts with their enclosed gear box, etc., they're still a good value for their money and can be superdetailed to look fairly decent. They may not be able to crawl as well as early Mantua's or Varney's either but they still do well in their own right when put in shape. After all, manufacturers such as Cary have designed some of their boilers to run under these mechanisms. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <rcjge@...> wrote: > > Guys: > > I've only been on here a little while and while I own several pieces > of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a > collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of Mantua > Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version > Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. > > I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while I find > his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd way > I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and > thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of Tyco/Mantua > stuff for a song. > > People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a particular > time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music from > my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their parents > playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my first > model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still have) > it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco > Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to fan > yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys on the > Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, it's > about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. > > If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire away. > Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll bet > it isn't one you'd be proud of. > > In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to further my > knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an either or > situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play Rugby > on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. > > All of the above of course is just one opinion > > Cheers, > Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2913	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

To my knowledge, the Walthers Baltic can be thought of as rough castings that the buyer had to machine to assemble. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 26, 2007, at 11:32 PM, erieberk wrote: > Wm. K. Walthers produced a pre-War Milwaukee Road F-6 Baltic model > both in H0 and in 0 Guages. As far as I know, although they planned > to produce other types of steam engines in HO after the War, they > never did come out with any (except for 0 Guage) and they > discontinued their H0 Baltic when they resumed their production in > 1946; a Varney V-1 engine was used to power it. Always had one on > my "want" list (in H0) but never saw one. As for the CNJ's 4-6-4T H- > 1s this was designated as their "Suburban" Class. Ray W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2914	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

An original Walthers Baltic is one of the entries in our cover photo contest! (If you haven't voted yet, Wednesday's the last day) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 4:39 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale? > To my knowledge, the Walthers Baltic can be thought of as rough > castings that the buyer had to machine to assemble. > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Feb 26, 2007, at 11:32 PM, erieberk wrote: > >> Wm. K. Walthers produced a pre-War Milwaukee Road F-6 Baltic model >> both in H0 and in 0 Guages. As far as I know, although they planned >> to produce other types of steam engines in HO after the War, they >> never did come out with any (except for 0 Guage) and they >> discontinued their H0 Baltic when they resumed their production in >> 1946; a Varney V-1 engine was used to power it. Always had one on >> my "want" list (in H0) but never saw one. As for the CNJ's 4-6-4T H- >> 1s this was designated as their "Suburban" Class. Ray W. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2915	From: erieberk	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

Mike, By that, can I assume that the boiler might look like the kind of rough, post-War bronze casting of the Varney Yellowstone? Would you know what needs to be machined on it (drilling for handrail posts? more?)? They sure look spiffy when finished. Maybe Roger can help here, if he assembled his -- I assume his photo is of his engine. Regards, Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > To my knowledge, the Walthers Baltic can be thought of as rough > castings that the buyer had to machine to assemble. > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Feb 26, 2007, at 11:32 PM, erieberk wrote: > > > Wm. K. Walthers produced a pre-War Milwaukee Road F-6 Baltic model > > both in H0 and in 0 Guages. As far as I know, although they planned > > to produce other types of steam engines in HO after the War, they > > never did come out with any (except for 0 Guage) and they > > discontinued their H0 Baltic when they resumed their production in > > 1946; a Varney V-1 engine was used to power it. Always had one on > > my "want" list (in H0) but never saw one. As for the CNJ's 4-6- 4T H- > > 1s this was designated as their "Suburban" Class. Ray W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2916	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

Hi all, while in actuality, these TYCO kits were really Mantua, the boxes said TYCO. I own a very nice 4-6-2 Pacific from this era. I also have several TYCO 0-4-0's and 0-6-0's (really Mantua). These were very well designed and manufactured pieces of Model Railroading equipment. The newer later TYCO plastic stuff was pretty bad. The drivers on the locos resembled nothing of the Mantua parts and were wobbly and out of round and out of quarter oftentimes. I have not owned any of these, but almost bought a few at Train Shows. When I looked closely at them, I thought they were some really wierd off brand and could not believe they were TYCO's. I don't know how long this period lasted, but it was definitely not one of Mantua/TYCO's best moments. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:59:28 -0000 TYCO or Mantua? BIG difference. Later TYCO stuff was bad. I could take pictures and show you. All of my die-cast steamers say Mantua. I strongly suspect "My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great" is a Mantua, not a TYCO. > > I collect and operate trains in most scales and gauges, by most manufacturers and appreciate and enjoy them for what they are. > I have quite a large collection of Tyco trains which when properly maintained run just fine for what they were designed for. (Not everyone likes to do maintenance.) > My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great. > I can't bash the guys that only own a certain vintage, brass or RTR high-dollar plastic, because I own and enjoy those for what they are too. > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > Far be it from me to needlessly offend anyone's sensitivities, I hope that I never have here. I have had some of Tyco's latest brown box models. I was not particularly impressed with them, the locomotives were particularly disapointing. They ran poorly or not at all and I was not able to convenietly locate parts for them. I bought it all used, that likely did not help much. Of couse they were out of production by then so lack of parts was not surprising. I have been told that the earlier models were of better quality, but I have never had one. I sold what I did have on ebay, I hope my customers were as pleased with their purchaes as you seem to be with your Tyco models. I know that I was very pleased to convert my personal Tyco collection back to cash. > > Wobbly913 > > > rcjge <rcjge@...> wrote: > Guys: > > I've only been on here a little while and while I own several pieces > of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a > collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of Mantua > Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version > Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. > > I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while I find > his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd way > I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and > thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of Tyco/Mantua > stuff for a song. > > People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a particular > time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music from > my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their parents > playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my first > model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still have) > it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco > Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to fan > yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys on the > Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, it's > about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. > > If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire away. > Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll bet > it isn't one you'd be proud of. > > In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to further my > knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an either or > situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play Rugby > on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. > > All of the above of course is just one opinion > > Cheers, > Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.) > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > _________________________________________________________________ Refi Now: Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-17727&moid=7581

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2917	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?

I bought the Baltic about nine years ago, the person who sold it said he got it from the original owner who had assembled it but not motorized it. The second owner had installed a Japenese open frame motor with a brass extension that kept bending. It has been my intention to install a gearbox and can motor one day. Sound and DCC would be great for a nearly 70 year old locomotive. The loco frame and the tender floor are what looks like bronze castings the boiler, cab and tender are sheet brass. The fittings appear to be soft metal castings. What I have read is there were two versions, one where the assembly was simplified, not sure which one this is. I would of been nice if devolpment of this line had continued after the war. Roger Aultman erieberk wrote: > Mike, By that, can I assume that the boiler might look like the kind > of rough, post-War bronze casting of the Varney Yellowstone? Would > you know what needs to be machined on it (drilling for handrail > posts? more?)? They sure look spiffy when finished. Maybe Roger > can help here, if he assembled his -- I assume his photo is of his > engine. Regards, Ray W. > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > >>To my knowledge, the Walthers Baltic can be thought of as rough >>castings that the buyer had to machine to assemble. >> >>Best to ya' >>Mike Bauers >>Milwaukee Wi, USA >> >> >>On Feb 26, 2007, at 11:32 PM, erieberk wrote: >> >> >>>Wm. K. Walthers produced a pre-War Milwaukee Road F-6 Baltic model >>>both in H0 and in 0 Guages. As far as I know, although they >> > planned > >>>to produce other types of steam engines in HO after the War, they >>>never did come out with any (except for 0 Guage) and they >>>discontinued their H0 Baltic when they resumed their production >> > in > >>>1946; a Varney V-1 engine was used to power it. Always had one >> > on > >>>my "want" list (in H0) but never saw one. As for the CNJ's 4-6- >> > 4T H- > >>>1s this was designated as their "Suburban" Class. Ray W. >> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2918	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

That's the problem, dealing with "names" attached to things. Newer "RCS" and "Zenith" had garbage chassis in the boxes, but still had the name. Personal experience, and it may not be validated, if the chassis says "Manuta", it's a keeper, if it says NOTHING or TYCO, well, part with it. There are work-arounds to some of it, but how much work are you willing to put into it? > > Hi all, while in actuality, these TYCO kits were really Mantua, the boxes > said TYCO. I own a very nice 4-6-2 Pacific from this era. I also have > several TYCO 0-4-0's and 0-6-0's (really Mantua). These were very well > designed and manufactured pieces of Model Railroading equipment. The newer > later TYCO plastic stuff was pretty bad. The drivers on the locos resembled > nothing of the Mantua parts and were wobbly and out of round and out of > quarter oftentimes. I have not owned any of these, but almost bought a few > at Train Shows. When I looked closely at them, I thought they were some > really wierd off brand and could not believe they were TYCO's. I don't know > how long this period lasted, but it was definitely not one of Mantua/TYCO's > best moments. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. > Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:59:28 -0000 > > TYCO or Mantua? > BIG difference. > Later TYCO stuff was bad. > I could take pictures and show you. > All of my die-cast steamers say Mantua. > I strongly suspect "My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 > switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs > great" is a Mantua, not a TYCO. > > > > > I collect and operate trains in most scales and gauges, by most > manufacturers and appreciate and enjoy them for what they are. > > I have quite a large collection of Tyco trains which when > properly maintained run just fine for what they were designed for. > (Not everyone likes to do maintenance.) > > My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that > my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great. > > I can't bash the guys that only own a certain vintage, brass or > RTR high-dollar plastic, because I own and enjoy those for what they > are too. > > > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@> wrote: > > Far be it from me to needlessly offend anyone's > sensitivities, I hope that I never have here. I have had some of > Tyco's latest brown box models. I was not particularly impressed > with them, the locomotives were particularly disapointing. They ran > poorly or not at all and I was not able to convenietly locate parts > for them. I bought it all used, that likely did not help much. Of > couse they were out of production by then so lack of parts was not > surprising. I have been told that the earlier models were of better > quality, but I have never had one. I sold what I did have on ebay, I > hope my customers were as pleased with their purchaes as you seem to > be with your Tyco models. I know that I was very pleased to convert > my personal Tyco collection back to cash. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > > > rcjge <rcjge@> wrote: > > Guys: > > > > I've only been on here a little while and while I own several > pieces > > of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a > > collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of Mantua > > Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version > > Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. > > > > I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while I > find > > his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd > way > > I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and > > thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of > Tyco/Mantua > > stuff for a song. > > > > People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a particular > > time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music > from > > my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their > parents > > playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my > first > > model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still > have) > > it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco > > Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to fan > > yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys on > the > > Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, > it's > > about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. > > > > If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire > away. > > Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll > bet > > it isn't one you'd be proud of. > > > > In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to further > my > > knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an > either or > > situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play > Rugby > > on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. > > > > All of the above of course is just one opinion > > > > Cheers, > > Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Refi Now: Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate > new payment > http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632- 17727&moid=7581 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2919	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

I am glad to see that I am not the only one not particularly well impressed with the later TYCO. I never have experienced the older made by Mantua Tyco, so I don't know what I have missed. The good review for the older Tyco made by Mantua gives me cause to try some. So if I wanted to buy some of the older made by Mantua but labeled Tyco, What are the spotting features so that I would know the difference?   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: That's the problem, dealing with "names" attached to things. Newer "RCS" and "Zenith" had garbage chassis in the boxes, but still had the name. Personal experience, and it may not be validated, if the chassis says "Manuta", it's a keeper, if it says NOTHING or TYCO, well, part with it. There are work-arounds to some of it, but how much work are you willing to put into it? > > Hi all, while in actuality, these TYCO kits were really Mantua, the boxes > said TYCO. I own a very nice 4-6-2 Pacific from this era. I also have > several TYCO 0-4-0's and 0-6-0's (really Mantua). These were very well > designed and manufactured pieces of Model Railroading equipment. The newer > later TYCO plastic stuff was pretty bad. The drivers on the locos resembled > nothing of the Mantua parts and were wobbly and out of round and out of > quarter oftentimes. I have not owned any of these, but almost bought a few > at Train Shows. When I looked closely at them, I thought they were some > really wierd off brand and could not believe they were TYCO's. I don't know > how long this period lasted, but it was definitely not one of Mantua/TYCO's > best moments. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "curmudgeon" > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. > Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:59:28 -0000 > > TYCO or Mantua? > BIG difference. > Later TYCO stuff was bad. > I could take pictures and show you. > All of my die-cast steamers say Mantua. > I strongly suspect "My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 > switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs > great" is a Mantua, not a TYCO. > > > > > I collect and operate trains in most scales and gauges, by most > manufacturers and appreciate and enjoy them for what they are. > > I have quite a large collection of Tyco trains which when > properly maintained run just fine for what they were designed for. > (Not everyone likes to do maintenance.) > > My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that > my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great. > > I can't bash the guys that only own a certain vintage, brass or > RTR high-dollar plastic, because I own and enjoy those for what they > are too. > > > > Wobbly913 wrote: > > Far be it from me to needlessly offend anyone's > sensitivities, I hope that I never have here. I have had some of > Tyco's latest brown box models. I was not particularly impressed > with them, the locomotives were particularly disapointing. They ran > poorly or not at all and I was not able to convenietly locate parts > for them. I bought it all used, that likely did not help much. Of > couse they were out of production by then so lack of parts was not > surprising. I have been told that the earlier models were of better > quality, but I have never had one. I sold what I did have on ebay, I > hope my customers were as pleased with their purchaes as you seem to > be with your Tyco models. I know that I was very pleased to convert > my personal Tyco collection back to cash. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > > > rcjge wrote: > > Guys: > > > > I've only been on here a little while and while I own several > pieces > > of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a > > collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of Mantua > > Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version > > Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. > > > > I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while I > find > > his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd > way > > I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and > > thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of > Tyco/Mantua > > stuff for a song. > > > > People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a particular > > time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music > from > > my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their > parents > > playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my > first > > model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still > have) > > it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco > > Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to fan > > yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys on > the > > Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, > it's > > about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. > > > > If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire > away. > > Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll > bet > > it isn't one you'd be proud of. > > > > In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to further > my > > knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an > either or > > situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play > Rugby > > on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. > > > > All of the above of course is just one opinion > > > > Cheers, > > Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Refi Now: Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate > new payment > http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632- 17727&moid=7581 > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/GaCslB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2920	From: curmudgeon	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

Dismals or steam? Dismals, the "F" units for example, the bottom cover of the power truck is held on with screws, not rivets, the mount plate screws in, not snapped into the shell. Usually metal handrails. Steam? Best ones are die-cast. Transition pieces (late 60's to early 70's at least) are virtually identical chassis, and plastic shells (my "Big Six" and "Booster" fall into this category). For the record, if I have to drill out rivets to properly inspect, lubricate and maintain a unit, I have zero interest in owning said unit. Look on the hoseeker site and the yardbird site for drawings of steamers. Dave > I am glad to see that I am not the only one not particularly well impressed with the later TYCO. I never have experienced the older made by Mantua Tyco, so I don't know what I have missed. > The good review for the older Tyco made by Mantua gives me cause to try some. > So if I wanted to buy some of the older made by Mantua but labeled Tyco, What are the spotting features so that I would know the difference? > > Wobbly913 > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > That's the problem, dealing with "names" attached to things. > Newer "RCS" and "Zenith" had garbage chassis in the boxes, but still > had the name. > Personal experience, and it may not be validated, if the chassis > says "Manuta", it's a keeper, if it says NOTHING or TYCO, well, part > with it. > There are work-arounds to some of it, but how much work are you > willing to put into it? > > > > > Hi all, while in actuality, these TYCO kits were really Mantua, > the boxes > > said TYCO. I own a very nice 4-6-2 Pacific from this era. I also > have > > several TYCO 0-4-0's and 0-6-0's (really Mantua). These were very > well > > designed and manufactured pieces of Model Railroading equipment. > The newer > > later TYCO plastic stuff was pretty bad. The drivers on the locos > resembled > > nothing of the Mantua parts and were wobbly and out of round and > out of > > quarter oftentimes. I have not owned any of these, but almost > bought a few > > at Train Shows. When I looked closely at them, I thought they > were some > > really wierd off brand and could not believe they were TYCO's. I > don't know > > how long this period lasted, but it was definitely not one of > Mantua/TYCO's > > best moments. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "curmudgeon" > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. > > Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:59:28 -0000 > > > > TYCO or Mantua? > > BIG difference. > > Later TYCO stuff was bad. > > I could take pictures and show you. > > All of my die-cast steamers say Mantua. > > I strongly suspect "My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 > > switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs > > great" is a Mantua, not a TYCO. > > > > > > > > I collect and operate trains in most scales and gauges, by most > > manufacturers and appreciate and enjoy them for what they are. > > > I have quite a large collection of Tyco trains which when > > properly maintained run just fine for what they were designed for. > > (Not everyone likes to do maintenance.) > > > My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that > > my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great. > > > I can't bash the guys that only own a certain vintage, brass > or > > RTR high-dollar plastic, because I own and enjoy those for what > they > > are too. > > > > > > Wobbly913 wrote: > > > Far be it from me to needlessly offend anyone's > > sensitivities, I hope that I never have here. I have had some of > > Tyco's latest brown box models. I was not particularly impressed > > with them, the locomotives were particularly disapointing. They ran > > poorly or not at all and I was not able to convenietly locate parts > > for them. I bought it all used, that likely did not help much. Of > > couse they were out of production by then so lack of parts was not > > surprising. I have been told that the earlier models were of better > > quality, but I have never had one. I sold what I did have on ebay, > I > > hope my customers were as pleased with their purchaes as you seem > to > > be with your Tyco models. I know that I was very pleased to convert > > my personal Tyco collection back to cash. > > > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > > > > > > rcjge wrote: > > > Guys: > > > > > > I've only been on here a little while and while I own several > > pieces > > > of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a > > > collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of > Mantua > > > Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version > > > Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. > > > > > > I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while > I > > find > > > his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd > > way > > > I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and > > > thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of > > Tyco/Mantua > > > stuff for a song. > > > > > > People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a > particular > > > time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music > > from > > > my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their > > parents > > > playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my > > first > > > model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still > > have) > > > it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco > > > Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to > fan > > > yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys > on > > the > > > Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, > > it's > > > about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. > > > > > > If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire > > away. > > > Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll > > bet > > > it isn't one you'd be proud of. > > > > > > In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to > further > > my > > > knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an > > either or > > > situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play > > Rugby > > > on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. > > > > > > All of the above of course is just one opinion > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > > > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Refi Now: Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - > Calculate > > new payment > > http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632- > 17727&moid=7581 > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2921	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

Thanks for the quick reply. I will keep a lookout, mostly on ebay. curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Dismals or steam? Dismals, the "F" units for example, the bottom cover of the power truck is held on with screws, not rivets, the mount plate screws in, not snapped into the shell. Usually metal handrails. Steam? Best ones are die-cast. Transition pieces (late 60's to early 70's at least) are virtually identical chassis, and plastic shells (my "Big Six" and "Booster" fall into this category). For the record, if I have to drill out rivets to properly inspect, lubricate and maintain a unit, I have zero interest in owning said unit. Look on the hoseeker site and the yardbird site for drawings of steamers. Dave > I am glad to see that I am not the only one not particularly well impressed with the later TYCO. I never have experienced the older made by Mantua Tyco, so I don't know what I have missed. > The good review for the older Tyco made by Mantua gives me cause to try some. > So if I wanted to buy some of the older made by Mantua but labeled Tyco, What are the spotting features so that I would know the difference? > > Wobbly913 > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2922	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

Ah yes, there goes the rub. I wish I could tell you for sure, but I found that when I was ready to bid for some TYCO's on ebay, I got lucky, because the pictures were very clear and I could see that the body was plastic. While this is NOT a complete indicator, it is pretty good. The old TYCO steam engines, 0-4-0's 0-6-0's, 2-8-0's, 2-8-2's, etc...you name it are all metal boilers and frames. The wheel centers of the drivers are all metal also. It is kind of tough to tell from the pictures, but really easy to tell from holding them. The newer TYCO's aren't even worth buying for the drivers. I try to pick up cheap basket cases of the old stuff, because I can always use the very good drivers made the old Mantua way. Some of the new TYCO stuff had cast metal frames and wheel centers, but be careful. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:04:15 -0800 (PST) I am glad to see that I am not the only one not particularly well impressed with the later TYCO. I never have experienced the older made by Mantua Tyco, so I don't know what I have missed. The good review for the older Tyco made by Mantua gives me cause to try some. So if I wanted to buy some of the older made by Mantua but labeled Tyco, What are the spotting features so that I would know the difference? Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: That's the problem, dealing with "names" attached to things. Newer "RCS" and "Zenith" had garbage chassis in the boxes, but still had the name. Personal experience, and it may not be validated, if the chassis says "Manuta", it's a keeper, if it says NOTHING or TYCO, well, part with it. There are work-arounds to some of it, but how much work are you willing to put into it? > > Hi all, while in actuality, these TYCO kits were really Mantua, the boxes > said TYCO. I own a very nice 4-6-2 Pacific from this era. I also have > several TYCO 0-4-0's and 0-6-0's (really Mantua). These were very well > designed and manufactured pieces of Model Railroading equipment. The newer > later TYCO plastic stuff was pretty bad. The drivers on the locos resembled > nothing of the Mantua parts and were wobbly and out of round and out of > quarter oftentimes. I have not owned any of these, but almost bought a few > at Train Shows. When I looked closely at them, I thought they were some > really wierd off brand and could not believe they were TYCO's. I don't know > how long this period lasted, but it was definitely not one of Mantua/TYCO's > best moments. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "curmudgeon" > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. > Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:59:28 -0000 > > TYCO or Mantua? > BIG difference. > Later TYCO stuff was bad. > I could take pictures and show you. > All of my die-cast steamers say Mantua. > I strongly suspect "My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 > switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs > great" is a Mantua, not a TYCO. > > > > > I collect and operate trains in most scales and gauges, by most > manufacturers and appreciate and enjoy them for what they are. > > I have quite a large collection of Tyco trains which when > properly maintained run just fine for what they were designed for. > (Not everyone likes to do maintenance.) > > My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that > my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great. > > I can't bash the guys that only own a certain vintage, brass or > RTR high-dollar plastic, because I own and enjoy those for what they > are too. > > > > Wobbly913 wrote: > > Far be it from me to needlessly offend anyone's > sensitivities, I hope that I never have here. I have had some of > Tyco's latest brown box models. I was not particularly impressed > with them, the locomotives were particularly disapointing. They ran > poorly or not at all and I was not able to convenietly locate parts > for them. I bought it all used, that likely did not help much. Of > couse they were out of production by then so lack of parts was not > surprising. I have been told that the earlier models were of better > quality, but I have never had one. I sold what I did have on ebay, I > hope my customers were as pleased with their purchaes as you seem to > be with your Tyco models. I know that I was very pleased to convert > my personal Tyco collection back to cash. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > > > rcjge wrote: > > Guys: > > > > I've only been on here a little while and while I own several > pieces > > of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a > > collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of Mantua > > Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version > > Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. > > > > I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while I > find > > his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd > way > > I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and > > thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of > Tyco/Mantua > > stuff for a song. > > > > People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a particular > > time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music > from > > my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their > parents > > playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my > first > > model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still > have) > > it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco > > Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to fan > > yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys on > the > > Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, > it's > > about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. > > > > If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire > away. > > Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll > bet > > it isn't one you'd be proud of. > > > > In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to further > my > > knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an > either or > > situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play > Rugby > > on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. > > > > All of the above of course is just one opinion > > > > Cheers, > > Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Refi Now: Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate > new payment > http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632- 17727&moid=7581 > Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2923	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short C

Roger, Thanks, it does keep me busy.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Roger Aultman Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 10:25 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches   Very impressive layout you have. Roger Chuck Higdon wrote: > Roger, > > Thanks for the photo. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] On > Behalf Of Roger Aultman > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:18 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches > > > > I dug out a kit #HO 2M 70 ft Penn Coach by JC, the sides appear to be > aluminum, > not attracted to magnet though they are metal. Seems that I had once > assembled > one with a sort of laminated side, fiber and foil perhaps. Roger Aultman > >> >> >> I don't know what the construction was on the "JC Silver Sides" cars > was, I >> never had any, but I have on the desk in front of me a w:st="on"> Pennsylvania arch >> roof coach that has embossed heavy foil sides, with roof, ends and > floor of >> wood, that has been fairly positively identified as a "Megow" car. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@ prodigy.net <mailto:don. dellmann% 40prodigy. net> >> http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > <http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann> >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics> >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO> >> Co-owner >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm > <http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm> > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/ > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/> > > -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2924	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

It was originally Mantua.  Ca. 1952, Mantua started using the "Tyco" name on the RTR versions of their locos and cars, the same equipment as kits still carried the Mantua name.   In 1970, the line was sold to Sara-Lee/Consolidated foods, which is when it bcame a made in Hong Kong toy line, any resemblance to earlier Tyco/Mantua production was purely superficial.  In 1977 the Tyler family bought the rights to the "Mantua" name back from Consolidated, this was the Mantua line of the 1980's, which was of a higher quality, but they essentially priced themselves out of the market, going up up up every year while still producing what was basically 1950's and 60's technology.  Certainly there were improvements in the mechanisms, but the loco bodies were still the old 1950 designs.  Eventually peopel just wouldn't pay their prices any more, and the company went out of the train business, selling their designs and tooling to Model Power.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. I am glad to see that I am not the only one not particularly well impressed with the later TYCO. I never have experienced the older made by Mantua Tyco, so I don't know what I have missed. The good review for the older Tyco made by Mantua gives me cause to try some. So if I wanted to buy some of the older made by Mantua but labeled Tyco, What are the spotting features so that I would know the difference?   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: That's the problem, dealing with "names" attached to things. Newer "RCS" and "Zenith" had garbage chassis in the boxes, but still had the name. Personal experience, and it may not be validated, if the chassis says "Manuta", it's a keeper, if it says NOTHING or TYCO, well, part with it. There are work-arounds to some of it, but how much work are you willing to put into it? > > Hi all, while in actuality, these TYCO kits were really Mantua, the boxes > said TYCO. I own a very nice 4-6-2 Pacific from this era. I also have > several TYCO 0-4-0's and 0-6-0's (really Mantua). These were very well > designed and manufactured pieces of Model Railroading equipment. The newer > later TYCO plastic stuff was pretty bad. The drivers on the locos resembled > nothing of the Mantua parts and were wobbly and out of round and out of > quarter oftentimes. I have not owned any of these, but almost bought a few > at Train Shows. When I looked closely at them, I thought they were some > really wierd off brand and could not believe they were TYCO's. I don't know > how long this period lasted, but it was definitely not one of Mantua/TYCO's > best moments. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "curmudgeon" > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. > Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:59:28 -0000 > > TYCO or Mantua? > BIG difference. > Later TYCO stuff was bad. > I could take pictures and show you. > All of my die-cast steamers say Mantua. > I strongly suspect "My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 > switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs > great" is a Mantua, not a TYCO. > > > > > I collect and operate trains in most scales and gauges, by most > manufacturers and appreciate and enjoy them for what they are. > > I have quite a large collection of Tyco trains which when > properly maintained run just fine for what they were designed for. > (Not everyone likes to do maintenance.) > > My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that > my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great. > > I can't bash the guys that only own a certain vintage, brass or > RTR high-dollar plastic, because I own and enjoy those for what they > are too. > > > > Wobbly913 wrote: > > Far be it from me to needlessly offend anyone's > sensitivities, I hope that I never have here. I have had some of > Tyco's latest brown box models. I was not particularly impressed > with them, the locomotives were particularly disapointing. They ran > poorly or not at all and I was not able to convenietly locate parts > for them. I bought it all used, that likely did not help much. Of > couse they were out of production by then so lack of parts was not > surprising. I have been told that the earlier models were of better > quality, but I have never had one. I sold what I did have on ebay, I > hope my customers were as pleased with their purchaes as you seem to > be with your Tyco models. I know that I was very pleased to convert > my personal Tyco collection back to cash. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > > > rcjge wrote: > > Guys: > > > > I've only been on here a little while and while I own several > pieces > > of 50's Hobbytown, Lindberg, Penn Line and the like, I am also a > > collector of Red/Brown Box Era Tyco. I have a collection of Mantua > > Powered Century 430's, GP20's and two very Uncommon 1st Version > > Tyco-Rivarossi powered Century 630's. > > > > I just read some fella use the expression "Tyco crap" and while I > find > > his tone and that of some of the others here offensive In an odd > way > > I'm grateful. I was at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train show, and > > thanks to that elitist attitude I picked up all kinds of > Tyco/Mantua > > stuff for a song. > > > > People who enjoy the Red/Brown box era came of age at a particular > > time. I often am amused to hear kids in their 20's playing music > from > > my youth in the 70's and realize it was what they heard their > parents > > playing. The Tyco's were ubiquitous in the 70's, and though my > first > > model train engine was a Lionel Post-war NW2 (CNJ-which I still > have) > > it was actually my brothers and my own first was the little Tyco > > Plymouth which always ran. You guys are all probably having to fan > > yourselves now from getting the vapors but for most of the guys on > the > > Tyco collectors forum, who are it has to be said terrific guys, > it's > > about nostalgia for the most part. A time, a place. > > > > If it makes you feel special to put others down as a group, fire > away. > > Just know it also places you in a certain kind of group and I'll > bet > > it isn't one you'd be proud of. > > > > In closing I just want to add that I came to this group to further > my > > knowledge of primarily 1955-65 HO. It shouldn't feel like an > either or > > situation, no more than the fact that at one time I could play > Rugby > > on Sunday afternoon and go to the Ballet or Opera Sundy night. > > > > All of the above of course is just one opinion > > > > Cheers, > > Gareth Edwards (M/Cpl.Ret.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Refi Now: Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate > new payment > http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632- 17727&moid=7581 > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/GaCslB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! 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Group: vintageHO	Message: 2925	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

Don Thanks for the history lesson. That certainly makes the deterioration of the line easier to understand. I will not ever understand why a company will buy a successful company, then ruin the product. So is the current Model Power of the same quality as the old Mantua?   Wobbly913 Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: It was originally Mantua.  Ca. 1952, Mantua started using the "Tyco" name on the RTR versions of their locos and cars, the same equipment as kits still carried the Mantua name.   In 1970, the line was sold to Sara-Lee/Consolidated foods, which is when it bcame a made in Hong Kong toy line, any resemblance to earlier Tyco/Mantua production was purely superficial.  In 1977 the Tyler family bought the rights to the "Mantua" name back from Consolidated, this was the Mantua line of the 1980's, which was of a higher quality, but they essentially priced themselves out of the market, going up up up every year while still producing what was basically 1950's and 60's technology.  Certainly there were improvements in the mechanisms, but the loco bodies were still the old 1950 designs.  Eventually peopel just wouldn't pay their prices any more, and the company went out of the train business, selling their designs and tooling to Model Power.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. I am glad to see that I am not the only one not particularly well impressed with the later TYCO. I never have experienced the older made by Mantua Tyco, so I don't know what I have missed. The good review for the older Tyco made by Mantua gives me cause to try some. So if I wanted to buy some of the older made by Mantua but labeled Tyco, What are the spotting features so that I would know the difference?   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: That's the problem, dealing with "names" attached to things. Newer "RCS" and "Zenith" had garbage chassis in the boxes, but still had the name. Personal experience, and it may not be validated, if the chassis says "Manuta", it's a keeper, if it says NOTHING or TYCO, well, part with it. There are work-arounds to some of it, but how much work are you willing to put into it? > > Hi all, while in actuality, these TYCO kits were really Mantua, the boxes > said TYCO. I own a very nice 4-6-2 Pacific from this era. I also have > several TYCO 0-4-0's and 0-6-0's (really Mantua). These were very well > designed and manufactured pieces of Model Railroading equipment. The newer > later TYCO plastic stuff was pretty bad. The drivers on the locos resembled > nothing of the Mantua parts and were wobbly and out of round and out of > quarter oftentimes. I have not owned any of these, but almost bought a few > at Train Shows. When I looked closely at them, I thought they were some > really wierd off brand and could not believe they were TYCO's. I don't know > how long this period lasted, but it was definitely not one of Mantua/TYCO's > best moments. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "curmudgeon" > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. > Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:59:28 -0000 > > TYCO or Mantua? > BIG difference. > Later TYCO stuff was bad. > I could take pictures and show you. > All of my die-cast steamers say Mantua. > I strongly suspect "My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 > switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs > great" is a Mantua, not a TYCO. > > > > > I collect and operate trains in most scales and gauges, by most > manufacturers and appreciate and enjoy them for what they are. > > I have quite a large collection of Tyco trains which when > properly maintained run just fine for what they were designed for. > (Not everyone likes to do maintenance.) > > My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that > my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great. > > I can't bash the guys that only own a certain vintage, brass or > RTR high-dollar plastic, because I own and enjoy those for what they > are too. > > Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2926	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.

That I can't answer, not having seen any of the current Model Power stuff.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. Don Thanks for the history lesson. That certainly makes the deterioration of the line easier to understand. I will not ever understand why a company will buy a successful company, then ruin the product. So is the current Model Power of the same quality as the old Mantua?   Wobbly913 Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: It was originally Mantua.  Ca. 1952, Mantua started using the "Tyco" name on the RTR versions of their locos and cars, the same equipment as kits still carried the Mantua name.   In 1970, the line was sold to Sara-Lee/Consolidated foods, which is when it bcame a made in Hong Kong toy line, any resemblance to earlier Tyco/Mantua production was purely superficial.  In 1977 the Tyler family bought the rights to the "Mantua" name back from Consolidated, this was the Mantua line of the 1980's, which was of a higher quality, but they essentially priced themselves out of the market, going up up up every year while still producing what was basically 1950's and 60's technology.  Certainly there were improvements in the mechanisms, but the loco bodies were still the old 1950 designs.  Eventually peopel just wouldn't pay their prices any more, and the company went out of the train business, selling their designs and tooling to Model Power.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. I am glad to see that I am not the only one not particularly well impressed with the later TYCO. I never have experienced the older made by Mantua Tyco, so I don't know what I have missed. The good review for the older Tyco made by Mantua gives me cause to try some. So if I wanted to buy some of the older made by Mantua but labeled Tyco, What are the spotting features so that I would know the difference?   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: That's the problem, dealing with "names" attached to things. Newer "RCS" and "Zenith" had garbage chassis in the boxes, but still had the name. Personal experience, and it may not be validated, if the chassis says "Manuta", it's a keeper, if it says NOTHING or TYCO, well, part with it. There are work-arounds to some of it, but how much work are you willing to put into it? > > Hi all, while in actuality, these TYCO kits were really Mantua, the boxes > said TYCO. I own a very nice 4-6-2 Pacific from this era. I also have > several TYCO 0-4-0's and 0-6-0's (really Mantua). These were very well > designed and manufactured pieces of Model Railroading equipment. The newer > later TYCO plastic stuff was pretty bad. The drivers on the locos resembled > nothing of the Mantua parts and were wobbly and out of round and out of > quarter oftentimes. I have not owned any of these, but almost bought a few > at Train Shows. When I looked closely at them, I thought they were some > really wierd off brand and could not believe they were TYCO's. I don't know > how long this period lasted, but it was definitely not one of Mantua/TYCO's > best moments. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "curmudgeon" > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco. > Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:59:28 -0000 > > TYCO or Mantua? > BIG difference. > Later TYCO stuff was bad. > I could take pictures and show you. > All of my die-cast steamers say Mantua. > I strongly suspect "My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 > switcher kit that my dad put together. I still have it and it runs > great" is a Mantua, not a TYCO. > > > > > I collect and operate trains in most scales and gauges, by most > manufacturers and appreciate and enjoy them for what they are. > > I have quite a large collection of Tyco trains which when > properly maintained run just fine for what they were designed for. > (Not everyone likes to do maintenance.) > > My first HO locomotive was a Tyco, an 0-4-0 switcher kit that > my dad put together. I still have it and it runs great. > > I can't bash the guys that only own a certain vintage, brass or > RTR high-dollar plastic, because I own and enjoy those for what they > are too. > > Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2927	From: trainnut2441	Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: HO Scale Collectors and History SIG /Greenberg Guide to Varney Trai

The HO Scale Collectors and History SIG ( of NMRA and TCA) has been in existance for 24 years. We recently stopped publishing our 16 page quarterly newsletter. The editor of the HOSCHsig was Dave Spanagel, author of " Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains" published in 1992. I have published 16 pages of updates to the Book and added a Chapter 15,titled "Trucks and Parts" The chapter 15 was going to be in the book but page limitations prevented us from including the Chapter. I have for sale Chapter 15 and the updates, corrections and addition for $15.00 postage paid to US customers and $18.00US IMO to foreign customers. Please order from J. D. Spanagel, 2441 Sterling Point Drive, Portsmouth, VA 23703-4716. My e-mail address are: trainnut2441@..., janetdavs@... or HOSCHSIG@... Dave Spanagel

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2928	From: trainnut2441	Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Bauer's Bronze boiler Streamliner

The posted subj boiler is a VARney boiler and Economy Chassis circa 1948-1955. Dave Spanagel author of "Greenberg Guide to Varney Trains".

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2929	From: trainnut2441	Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Mike, Don't get too discouraged, but be ever-more vigilant (and be > ready to part with some bread if you ever find one). As I understand > it, only about 200 of these babies were ever made. As Jay has two > and I have three, that leaves 195 left out there. I saw two listed > on eBay last year. One was mint and went for $1200+ and the other > was average but nice and went for $900+. They were produced by > Nickle Plate Products about 20 years ago, with and without the 5 car > set, but its the vintage part of those ones which were produced by > Penn Line Models that make them all the more appreciated. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@> wrote: > > > > AHhhhh......... > > > > Was it Penn-Line that had the aluminum bodied Crusader 4-6-2 ??? > > > > It's on my One-Day list............ > > > > Best to ya' > > Mike Bauers > > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > > > > On Feb 26, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mike Bauers" > > > > > > > > >> As far as I know........ > > >> > > >> The Lifelike plastic heavy-weight shorties are the later Varney > dies. > > >> > > >> So it could be said that Varney had the short Observation in > their > > >> later line. > > >> > > >> I modded one of those observations into a work car in the late > > >> sixties. I don't know if it was an labeled Varney or a Lifelike > > >> version. > > >> > > >> Best to ya' > > >> Mike Bauers > > >> Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > > > > Those are actually the ex PennLine cars, which in turn descended > > > from the > > > HObbyline units. > > > > > > Whatever Bowser DIDN'T get from Penn Line, Varney did, then in > > > turn, when > > > Varney broke up, Bowser got some, LifeLike got the rest. > > > > > > Don > >Why are we titleing the subject Varney Short Coaches when the real subject is " Penn Line Crusader" I have one with original mfg. box. They recently sold on E-Bay for $900 and $1400 last year. The Crusader was the first Penn Line engine produced in 1946, according to the instruction sheet. Check early issues of Model Railroader and Model Railroad Craftsman to see the ads. Subsequently the line expanded then went bankrupt, sold at auction and the history is as cited above. This data is also included in the second chapter to "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains".. I had long conversations with Sol Kramer( owner of Life Like, Varney, etc. :: of Philadelphia PA) who bought most of the former Penn Line and Varney line. Bowser got the rest. Dave Spanagel >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2930	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Re: Bauer's Bronze boiler Streamliner

Attachments : Dave S and list: If the 1946 boiler is what MIke B has, then what is the boiler of the Varney Streamlined Pacific made of, as listed in their 1941 catalog and described as follows: "The body is heavy enough to impart tremendous pulling power and long enough to add a four wheeled trailing truck". An eight car Streamlined passenger train was also offered in this 1941 catalog. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2931	From: trainnut2441	Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Penn Line Crusader

Mike Bauer of Milwaukee has stated the Penn Line Crusader was first produced in 1937. What documentation do you have to support this date? Sincerely DAVE Spanagel

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2932	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Poll results for vintageHO

The following vintageHO poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Help choose the cover photo for the next few months. Look at the photo album "a contest" then enter your vote for the picture you want to see on our home page. Voting will be open through February 28, 2007 CHOICES AND RESULTS - Li'l Joe, 13 votes, 30.23% - Vintage Switching, 12 votes, 27.91% - Walthers Baltic, 10 votes, 23.26% - Engine House Scene, 8 votes, 18.60% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2933	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

I think you're confused on this......... I suggest that you first need to quote [document] just where the heck you saw me post that!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Feb 28, 2007, at 1:59 PM, trainnut2441 wrote: > Mike Bauer of Milwaukee has stated the Penn Line Crusader was first > produced in 1937. What documentation do you have to support this > date? > Sincerely DAVE Spanagel

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2934	From: mwbauers	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Re: New Finds

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > I tried to send this last night but haven't yet seen it show up in > my mail so I'm trying again. > > This past Saturday was the Greater Houston Train Show, sponsored by > the San Jacinto Model Railroad Club. I found a few nice old items that > convinced me to part with some hard-earned cash............ snip....... I meant to get to this sooner, but lost my original of this post. Some time ago I found a listing for a completed version of this rail truck on eBay. I saved the images from the auction because I had never before seen that model rail truck..... NOR...... a rail truck finished with a reefer left side and a regular freight door right side, It was built with the proper ice hatch on the freezer side. I think that is quite humorous and quite desirable as a insiders joke on the hobby. I've been wondering if the kit you got, is supposed to be built that way; or if the builder did the split reefer/freight version as his own creation ????? I saved the images as something I'd sure like to build one day......... By the way........ I somehow missed the fourth image you posted; the one of the exploded plans. Would you please, please, please repost that scan ?!?!?! If you'd like, I could hunt-up and post the images from eBay of that fun RailTruck. best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi. > The third and fourth photos show a real oddball. It's a kit for a > 1915 Model "T" Rail Truck. The instruction sheet says it's by > Distinctive Scale Models in Lincoln, NE. It says the inspiration was an > article by Sherman T. Dance in the January, 1963 MR. This looks like one > of those home-brew and sold kits. That fourth photo shows the exploded > plans from one of the pages. There's not much to the kit, but it looked > intriguing and does include the motor. The metal parts for the gearbox > and front truck have not been bent to shape yet, so that's going to be a > real challenge to get it right and true. I paid $10 each for this one > and the SP boxcar. > > -- > > Rick Jones

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2935	From: Bill Daley	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Mantua Mike for sale

Attachments : For sale to members of the VINTAGE HO group who appreciate such items ;   Mantua Mike.  1952 design.  Originally bought and assembled in mid 50s by a fellow member of a model railroad club in suburban Philadelphia.  In the 80's, when "zamac rot" attacked the frame he gave it to me as a "basket case".  I did an adequate job of stabilizing the frame, and making a replacement cover plate.  Shortly thereafter, the pilot crumbled.   About 6 years ago, I obtained a new frame and pilot. And ran it on our club layout. Our club has switched to new technology and to raise money for decoders for other locos I'm selling it.  Boiler is cast zamak, with no evidence of rot. Replacement pilot is plastic. Motor is a DC-71(?) utilizing a molded fibre shaft connecting to a small worm in a housing over the main driver.  Motor extends into cab .  Home made replacement bottom cover plate is metal. The 6-axle tender is all metal.    All in all, it is NOT a perfectly preserved speciman, but it isn't a piece of junk!.  Had it running last night in a test cradle.   You gentlemen know the value. I'd appreciate a fair offer. I am not a member of pay pal.  Obviously, shipping, etc are extra. Please reply off forum   Respectfully,   B. Daley  retiredgrouch@...   Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2936	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Fw: [yg-alerts] Update: Some Groups Members not receiving messages

I don't know if this affected anyone here or not, but a FYI anyway.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Carole McManus To: yg-alerts@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 5:37 PM Subject: [yg-alerts] Update: Some Groups Members not receiving messages From February 28 about 2:30 p.m. (Pacific time) until March 1 about 11:15 a.m. (Pacific time) (http://www.timeandd ate.com/worldclo ck/), some members of some groups were not receiving email. Some members of some of these groups were able to see the posts on their group archive on the Web, but were not receiving them via email. Groups mail delivery is back to normal as of about 11:15 a.m. (Pacific time). We now have more information about what caused this. While we were working on an improvement to our email delivery systems, email delivery was inadvertently suspended for some members of some groups. This problem did not affect all Groups users. Unfortunately, while messages posted to affected groups during this time were saved to group archives, the messages cannot now be delivered via email. If your group's archives are open to your members (more info about Archive settings: http://help. yahoo.com/ help/us/groups/ messages/ messages- 16.html), your members can access the undelivered messages via the Web. If your group's archives are not open to your members, you may want to suggest that your members resend any messages they had sent between yesterday afternoon and this morning, if they want to ensure that all members of the group receive them. Yesterday's work was part of our ongoing efforts to improve the performance of Yahoo! Groups and was not supposed to involve any downtime for users. The delivery glitch was the result of human error, and because it only affected some members of some groups, it delayed both our awareness of the problem and our efforts to resolve it. We sincerely regret the inconvenience it may have caused. The Yahoo! Groups Team

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2937	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: [yg-alerts] Update: Some Groups Members not receiving messa

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I don't know if this affected anyone here or not, but a FYI anyway. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carole McManus > To: yg-alerts@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 5:37 PM > Subject: [yg-alerts] Update: Some Groups Members not receiving messages > > > From February 28 about 2:30 p.m. (Pacific time) until March 1 about > 11:15 a.m. (Pacific time) (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/), > some members of some groups were not receiving email. Some members of > some of these groups were able to see the posts on their group archive > on the Web, but were not receiving them via email. Groups mail > delivery is back to normal as of about 11:15 a.m. (Pacific time). We > now have more information about what caused this. > > While we were working on an improvement to our email delivery systems, > email delivery was inadvertently suspended for some members of some > groups. This problem did not affect all Groups users. Unfortunately, > while messages posted to affected groups during this time were saved > to group archives, the messages cannot now be delivered via email. If > your group's archives are open to your members (more > info about Archive settings: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/messages/messages-16.html), your members can access the undelivered messages via the Web. If your group's archives are not open to your members, you may want to suggest that your members resend any messages they had sent between yesterday afternoon and this morning, if they want to ensure that all members of the group receive them. > > Yesterday's work was part of our ongoing efforts to improve the > performance of Yahoo! Groups and was not supposed to involve any > downtime for users. The delivery glitch was the result of human error, > and because it only affected some members of some groups, it delayed > both our awareness of the problem and our efforts to resolve it. We > sincerely regret the inconvenience it may have caused. > > The Yahoo! Groups Team > Hi, this did affect me, for a couple days or so I didn't recieve any emails from the group. I just figured maybe there was a period of inactivity. Will be looking at the web board to 'catch up' -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2938	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Mantua- clarification

I had a phone converstaion with a fellow today who had read my post on Mantua/TYCO and told me it wasn't quite so. I told him for me it was, and we talked a bit about it. If I am looking for a Mantua, let's say Steamer. If it has a die-cast boiler, I will continue looking into it. If it has a plastic boiler, I will turn it over to see if it says "Mantua" on either the frame or the bottom cover. That doesn't always work, as some Pacifics built by TYCO are absolutely identical to earlier Mantua Pacifics, except there are no drive axle bearings. And they tend to wear out the frames quickly. We all have to have "oolies" we use to pick out what we want to look at. Like the color of the box, for one. Some, like the "Busy Bee" are unmistakeable. On Mikes and Pacifics, I look for the gearbox screwed to the frame. Not interested in open gears. Just what I want. On dismals, apparently John Tyler started the riveted blocks before he sold to the outfit that shipped it overseas. For me, personally, I don't like mechanical stuff that you have to drill apart, tap, and put screws in. I have done that, but I shouldn't have to. Also, when they started putting holes in the sides of the "F" units to clip the drive block in, what, 3/8" up the side, instead of screwing it to the standoffs in the shell, I determined those units were no longer for me. At least Athearn put the clips in the fuel tank. Some units, like the GP-20, one telling point I have come up with (and it may not be all-inclusive, just from the ones I have seen), if it has metal handrails, probably okay. Plastic, no, as the ones I have seen with plastic have the pancake motor with spur drive gears, and I have yet to see one that worked worth a shXt. Now, the logging mallet, I always wanted one of those, but those were after the Tyler family bought the company back. On freight cars, I look for (if plastic), die-cast frames, cast sideframes, and aluminun truck bolsters. Plastic trucks, okay, but fifty cents. That's not a "bash", just what I am interested in for durability, longevity, ease of maintenance, and "vintage", as dang near every thing I listed is 50 years old except the mallet. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2939	From: Bill Daley	Date: 3/2/2007
Subject: Mantua Mike for sale

Attachments : Sending this again because of the delivery glitch (see msg from moderator) Thursday.   For sale to members of the VINTAGE HO group who appreciate such items ;   Mantua Mike.  1952 design.  Originally bought and assembled in mid 50s by a fellow member of a model railroad club in suburban Philadelphia.  In the 80's, when "zamac rot" attacked the frame he gave it to me as a "basket case".  I did an adequate job of stabilizing the frame, and making a replacement cover plate.  Shortly thereafter, the pilot crumbled.   About 6 years ago, I obtained a new frame and pilot. And ran it on our club layout. Our club has switched to new technology and to raise money for decoders for other locos I'm selling it.  Boiler is cast zamak, with no evidence of rot. Replacement pilot is plastic. Motor is a DC-71(?) utilizing a molded fibre shaft connecting to a small worm in a housing over the main driver.  Motor extends into cab .  Home made replacement bottom cover plate is metal. The 6-axle tender is all metal.    All in all, it is NOT a perfectly preserved speciman, but it isn't a piece of junk!.  Had it running last night in a test cradle.   You gentlemen know the value. I'd appreciate a fair offer. I am not a member of pay pal.  Obviously, shipping, etc are extra. Please reply off forum   Respectfully,   B. Daley  retiredgrouch@...   It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2940	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Earlier JC Silversides cars I have in OO have a foil layer over heavy paper, embossed.  Later, O Scale car were aluminum sides. Crisper embossing than Walthers. ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches I dug out a kit #HO 2M 70 ft Penn Coach by JC, the sides appear to be aluminum, not attracted to magnet though they are metal. Seems that I had once assembled one with a sort of laminated side, fiber and foil perhaps. Roger Aultman > > > I don't know what the construction was on the "JC Silver Sides" cars was, I > never had any, but I have on the desk in front of me a Pennsylvania arch > roof coach that has embossed heavy foil sides, with roof, ends and floor of > wood, that has been fairly positively identified as a "Megow" car. > > Don > > don.dellmann@ prodigy.net > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2941	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

I have a JC 00 passenger, but the sides are plain cardboard or fiber, stamped out with some detail, i imagine there were variations. Can not remember where I saw the foil/fiber lamination. Roger Aultman Glenn Joesten wrote: > Earlier JC Silversides cars I have in OO have a foil layer over heavy > paper, embossed. Later, O Scale car were aluminum sides. Crisper > embossing than Walthers. > Visit Your Group > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO; > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2942	From: rcjge	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

Hi Guys: I picked up a tidy Hobbytown RS3 today and it needs the Pilot/Steps/Railing piece that fits on either end. Does anyone have one they would part with? Sorry for the pun! ;-) Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2943	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

that would be pre-silversides JC Models. ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches I have a JC 00 passenger, but the sides are plain cardboard or fiber, stamped out with some detail, i imagine there were variations. Can not remember where I saw the foil/fiber lamination. Roger Aultman Glenn Joesten wrote: > Earlier JC Silversides cars I have in OO have a foil layer over heavy > paper, embossed. Later, O Scale car were aluminum sides. Crisper > embossing than Walthers. > Visit Your Group > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO; > -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2944	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro magne

I picked up this Gilbert HO Scale American Flyer tender with some type of electro magnet switch?? Does anyone know what it is? What it does? Is it missing anything? I will post pictures of it in my projects and with the first email I receive with this message. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2945	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m

Attachments : a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: I picked up this Gilbert HO Scale American Flyer tender with some type of electro magnet switch?? Does anyone know what it is? What it does? Is it missing anything? I will post pictures of it in my projects and with the first email I receive with this message. Thanks, Sean Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2946	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m

Attachments : Sean: Yup, I had an American Flyer prewar NYC Hudson who's tender had just such a mechanism. That was for reversing the locomotive. In those early days, AF HO ran on A-C power, like all other 'tinplate' trains. To operate these locomotives on a D-C powered layout, this mechanism had to come out and a Pittman Permanent Magnet Field was installed in the engine. This replaced the A-C stator in the original motor. Now the locomotive would run on 6 volt D-C, as early HO power in prewar days did. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2947	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

Yes, I need one also. I am hoping that thye Hobbytown of Boston website will open up again soon. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "rcjge" <rcjge@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 23:14:03 -0000 Hi Guys: I picked up a tidy Hobbytown RS3 today and it needs the Pilot/Steps/Railing piece that fits on either end. Does anyone have one they would part with? Sorry for the pun! ;-) Thanks, Gareth _________________________________________________________________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE.� http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2948	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Train Show Video

Just wanted to share the following link for a train show video. Some neat stuff. Looks Good. www.merchantssquaremall.com/video/Train012007_0004.wmv They have more info at www.lehighvalleytrainmeet.com. Might be worth looking at. Redman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2949	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

All For those who never were on the site, this link will take you to what USED TO BE Hobbytown of Boston's old web site: http://web.archive.org/web/20050304135455/bearlocomo.zoovy.com/ Just for the fun of what it once was!! Doesn't work in real time.   Wobbly913   Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: Yes, I need one also. I am hoping that thye Hobbytown of Boston website will open up again soon. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "rcjge" Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 23:14:03 -0000 Hi Guys: I picked up a tidy Hobbytown RS3 today and it needs the Pilot/Steps/Railing piece that fits on either end. Does anyone have one they would part with? Sorry for the pun! ;-) Thanks, Gareth _________________________________________________________________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE.  http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/GaCslB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2950	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

Larry   Speaking of web sites no longer working, what ever happened to hoseeker.net? I just get the never welcome "page cannot be found" message .   Wobbly913 Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: All For those who never were on the site, this link will take you to what USED TO BE Hobbytown of Boston's old web site: http://web.archive.org/web/20050304135455/bearlocomo.zoovy.com/ Just for the fun of what it once was!! Doesn't work in real time.   Wobbly913     Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2951	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m

It looks like a reversing unit for a AC motor which the first Gilbert H-0 locos used. Roger Aultman sean naylor wrote: > > > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I picked up this Gilbert HO Scale American Flyer tender with some type > of electro magnet switch?? Does anyone know what it is? What it does? > Is it missing anything? I will post pictures of it in my projects and > with the first email I receive with this message. Thanks, Sean > > > ? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get your own web address. > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL> > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. < > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2952	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m

Thanks so much guys...! I am too young to have any experience with those types of units. It is the first time I have ever seen one. I have three smoke units which I intend to put in the tenders of my challengers... when I actually take the time to do it...   I decided to list this unit on eBay tonight it because I have no use for it. I Thank you for the information. I hate to list things without being able to give a fairly good description... 330094933693 GILBERT AF PRE-WAR TENDER CHASSIS W/ REVERSING UNIT   Thanks so much for the help.! Sean Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: It looks like a reversing unit for a AC motor which the first Gilbert H-0 locos used. Roger Aultman sean naylor wrote: > > > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > I picked up this Gilbert HO Scale American Flyer tender with some type > of electro magnet switch?? Does anyone know what it is? What it does? > Is it missing anything? I will post pictures of it in my projects and > with the first email I receive with this message. Thanks, Sean > > > ? > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Get your own web address. > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49678/ *http://smallbus iness.yahoo. com/domains/ ?p=BESTDEAL> > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. < > http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49678/ *http://smallbus iness.yahoo. com/domains/ ?p=BESTDEAL> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/ Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2953	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > > Larry > > Speaking of web sites no longer working, what ever happened to hoseeker.net? > I just get the never welcome "page cannot be found" message . > > Wobbly913 > > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > All > For those who never were on the site, this link will take you to what USED TO BE Hobbytown of Boston's old web site: > http://web.archive.org/web/20050304135455/bearlocomo.zoovy.com/ > Just for the fun of what it once was!! > Doesn't work in real time. > > Wobbly913 The HO Seeker site is being re-structured to gain more storage capacity according to larry....Ken > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2954	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

Ken Thanks for the reply, I will look forward to the return of hoseeker.net. Wobbly913  oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 wrote: > > Larry > > Speaking of web sites no longer working, what ever happened to hoseeker.net? > I just get the never welcome "page cannot be found" message . > > Wobbly913 > > Wobbly913 wrote: The HO Seeker site is being re-structured to gain more storage capacity according to larry....Ken > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/GaCslB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2955	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > > Ken > Thanks for the reply, I will look forward to the return of hoseeker.net. > Wobbly913 > > Yeah, Wobbly isn't it a cool site? I find myself using it more & more all the time, because all the old vintage catalogs & instruction sheets just can't be located anywhere else on the net! I've scanned & sent in several vintage catalogs & instruction sheets to help out. Larry will gladly accept anyone's submissions & put their credit on each one. He deserves a big thanks from all of us! Glad to see your taking advantage of the site. BTW, I attended college in Sacramento....Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2956	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 9:24 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps > Yes, I need one also. I am hoping that thye Hobbytown of Boston website > will open up again soon. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > If anyone's going to start chopping up a plastic Hobbytown for the ends for these guys, I got dibs on the cab! <G>. Not sure if Precision Scale still has them, but Kemtron did used to sell Alco ends for THEIR RS-3's in brass that may work. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2957	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

I used Kemtron/Precision ends on an AHM RS-3, and it improved the appearance of the model considerably. I would recommend them highly if you can't find Hobbytown ends. Mike Don Dellmann wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@... > <mailto:bitlerisvj%40hotmail.com>> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 9:24 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps > > > Yes, I need one also. I am hoping that thye Hobbytown of Boston website > > will open up again soon. > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > > > If anyone's going to start chopping up a plastic Hobbytown for the ends for > these guys, I got dibs on the cab! <G>. > > Not sure if Precision Scale still has them, but Kemtron did used to sell > Alco ends for THEIR RS-3's in brass that may work. > > Don > -- Mike Sloane Allamuchy NJ <mikesloane@...> Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane> Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> It's hard to argue against cynics - they always sound smarter than optimists because they have so much evidence on their side. -- Molly Ivins 1944-2007

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2958	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front

Wobbly, the “contact us” window still works and shows a mailing address that one could use to get their questions answered. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Wobbly913 Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 11:22 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps   All For those who never were on the site, this link will take you to what USED TO BE Hobbytown of Boston's old web site: http://web.archive. org/web/20050304 135455/bearlocom o.zoovy.com/ Just for the fun of what it once was!! Doesn't work in real time.   Wobbly913   Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote: Yes, I need one also. I am hoping that thye Hobbytown of Boston website will open up again soon. Vic Bitleris Raleigh , NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "rcjge" Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 23:14:03 -0000 Hi Guys: I picked up a tidy Hobbytown RS3 today and it needs the Pilot/Steps/ Railing piece that fits on either end. Does anyone have one they would part with? Sorry for the pun! ;-) Thanks, Gareth ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE.  http://zone. msn.com/en/ flexicon/ default.htm? icid=flexicon_ hmtagline ------------ --------- --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------ --------~ --> Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click. yahoo.com/ lOt0.A/hOaOAA/ yQLSAA/GaCslB/ TM ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/     Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2959	From: rcjge	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...

Guys: Since no one so far has had one, I realized I have another option. When I bought the RS3 I got two. One in Canadian Pacific livery and the other in Canadian National. The CP has an original motor and is missing the pilot/step/railing combo. The CN one was repowered and in so doing the person drilled through the top of the long hod to allow clearence for a vertical "can" motor installation! He put a little hatch over it. When I picked them up I wa so busy looking at his layout I didn't look in detail at the loco's till I got home. Anyway... What I was thinking was this; the eviscerated RS3 has plenty to offer as a donor loco, to wit I can grab the end piece I need and people responding to my post expressed a need for an end piece (I'll have a spare if I go this route) and someone said they needed a cab. That would leave trucks and short hood up for grabs and of course the aforementioned "holed" long hood. Just so we're clear this a METAL hobbytown RS3 and with their chassis with the between truck driveshaft. My goal is if I can replace what I could get in refund for the one loco I would be happy, so if any of the parts interest you let me know. I'm in Toronto and would send by post. Since I'm pretty new here you can check my Ebay profile **jge** or call me at 416-901-6303 Cheers, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2960	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...

Not sure, mine is the plastic one. I'm sure I could make the cab fit. I HAD the cab for mine, but somewhere it got lost in the junk. It's SOMEWHERE in the basement but darned if I can figure out where! (If you ever saw my basement you'd understand. A couple list members HAVE been down there and I think they're afraid to come back!) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <rcjge@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 9:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up... > Guys: > > Since no one so far has had one, I realized I have another option. > When I bought the RS3 I got two. > > One in Canadian Pacific livery and the other in Canadian National. > > The CP has an original motor and is missing the pilot/step/railing combo. > > The CN one was repowered and in so doing the person drilled through > the top of the long hod to allow clearence for a vertical "can" motor > installation! He put a little hatch over it. When I picked them up I > wa so busy looking at his layout I didn't look in detail at the loco's > till I got home. > > Anyway... > > What I was thinking was this; the eviscerated RS3 has plenty to offer > as a donor loco, to wit I can grab the end piece I need and people > responding to my post expressed a need for an end piece (I'll have a > spare if I go this route) and someone said they needed a cab. That > would leave trucks and short hood up for grabs and of course the > aforementioned "holed" long hood. > > Just so we're clear this a METAL hobbytown RS3 and with their chassis > with the between truck driveshaft. > > My goal is if I can replace what I could get in refund for the one > loco I would be happy, so if any of the parts interest you let me > know. I'm in Toronto and would send by post. Since I'm pretty new here > you can check my Ebay profile **jge** or call me at 416-901-6303 > > Cheers, > Gareth > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2961	From: rcjge	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...

Hi Dan: Well it might work. Someone on herre who knows both versions; plastic and metal can jump in. Like i said if I can get a few pieces sold I can forgo returning it and use the one step/Pilot. Any idea of what you'd spend for a cab? I could send a mediocre picture if you like? I say mediocre because the camera is in my Palm Zire and it's hard to get good shots with it! Cheers, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Not sure, mine is the plastic one. I'm sure I could make the cab fit. I > HAD the cab for mine, but somewhere it got lost in the junk. It's SOMEWHERE > in the basement but darned if I can figure out where! (If you ever saw my > basement you'd understand. A couple list members HAVE been down there and I > think they're afraid to come back!) > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <rcjge@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 9:29 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up... > > > > Guys: > > > > Since no one so far has had one, I realized I have another option. > > When I bought the RS3 I got two. > > > > One in Canadian Pacific livery and the other in Canadian National. > > > > The CP has an original motor and is missing the pilot/step/railing combo. > > > > The CN one was repowered and in so doing the person drilled through > > the top of the long hod to allow clearence for a vertical "can" motor > > installation! He put a little hatch over it. When I picked them up I > > wa so busy looking at his layout I didn't look in detail at the loco's > > till I got home. > > > > Anyway... > > > > What I was thinking was this; the eviscerated RS3 has plenty to offer > > as a donor loco, to wit I can grab the end piece I need and people > > responding to my post expressed a need for an end piece (I'll have a > > spare if I go this route) and someone said they needed a cab. That > > would leave trucks and short hood up for grabs and of course the > > aforementioned "holed" long hood. > > > > Just so we're clear this a METAL hobbytown RS3 and with their chassis > > with the between truck driveshaft. > > > > My goal is if I can replace what I could get in refund for the one > > loco I would be happy, so if any of the parts interest you let me > > know. I'm in Toronto and would send by post. Since I'm pretty new here > > you can check my Ebay profile **jge** or call me at 416-901-6303 > > > > Cheers, > > Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2962	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front

The "parts" catalog pages also work and clearly show the RS3 Pilot/Front steps that started this thread. Now only if the contacts still work and the person, if they want to, follow up they could possibly get them from hobbytown. Lotta "ifs"   Wobbly913 Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: Wobbly, the “contact us” window still works and shows a mailing address that one could use to get their questions answered. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Wobbly913 Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 11:22 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps   All For those who never were on the site, this link will take you to what USED TO BE Hobbytown of Boston's old web site: http://web.archive. org/web/20050304 135455/bearlocom o.zoovy.com/ Just for the fun of what it once was!! Doesn't work in real time.   Wobbly913   Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote: Yes, I need one also. I am hoping that thye Hobbytown of Boston website will open up again soon. Vic Bitleris Raleigh , NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "rcjge" Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 23:14:03 -0000 Hi Guys: I picked up a tidy Hobbytown RS3 today and it needs the Pilot/Steps/ Railing piece that fits on either end. Does anyone have one they would part with? Sorry for the pun! ;-) Thanks, Gareth ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE.  http://zone. msn.com/en/ flexicon/ default.htm? icid=flexicon_ hmtagline ------------ --------- --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------ --------~ --> Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click. yahoo.com/ lOt0.A/hOaOAA/ yQLSAA/GaCslB/ TM ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/     Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2963	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

Mine is cast metal. I have no plastic ones. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 04:52:43 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 9:24 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps > Yes, I need one also. I am hoping that thye Hobbytown of Boston website > will open up again soon. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > If anyone's going to start chopping up a plastic Hobbytown for the ends for these guys, I got dibs on the cab! <G>. Not sure if Precision Scale still has them, but Kemtron did used to sell Alco ends for THEIR RS-3's in brass that may work. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2964	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...

I would definitely go for the trucks and one end/pilot/steps. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "rcjge" <rcjge@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up... Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:29:19 -0000 Guys: Since no one so far has had one, I realized I have another option. When I bought the RS3 I got two. One in Canadian Pacific livery and the other in Canadian National. The CP has an original motor and is missing the pilot/step/railing combo. The CN one was repowered and in so doing the person drilled through the top of the long hod to allow clearence for a vertical "can" motor installation! He put a little hatch over it. When I picked them up I wa so busy looking at his layout I didn't look in detail at the loco's till I got home. Anyway... What I was thinking was this; the eviscerated RS3 has plenty to offer as a donor loco, to wit I can grab the end piece I need and people responding to my post expressed a need for an end piece (I'll have a spare if I go this route) and someone said they needed a cab. That would leave trucks and short hood up for grabs and of course the aforementioned "holed" long hood. Just so we're clear this a METAL hobbytown RS3 and with their chassis with the between truck driveshaft. My goal is if I can replace what I could get in refund for the one loco I would be happy, so if any of the parts interest you let me know. I'm in Toronto and would send by post. Since I'm pretty new here you can check my Ebay profile **jge** or call me at 416-901-6303 Cheers, Gareth _________________________________________________________________ Don�t miss your chance to WIN 10 hours of private jet travel from Microsoft� Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0540002499mrt/direct/01/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2965	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...

Oh, I forgot to state that if you want to hold off and wait until the Hobbytown of Boston site opens up agaain, the current price for steps is $3.00 and the long hood is $6.50. I would guess that even if Bear locomotive raises the prices, I doubt both items will go for more that $15.00. Who knows, an email may get you a positive response. I am assuming that if you get these two parts, you will have a complete model? Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "rcjge" <rcjge@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up... Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:29:19 -0000 Guys: Since no one so far has had one, I realized I have another option. When I bought the RS3 I got two. One in Canadian Pacific livery and the other in Canadian National. The CP has an original motor and is missing the pilot/step/railing combo. The CN one was repowered and in so doing the person drilled through the top of the long hod to allow clearence for a vertical "can" motor installation! He put a little hatch over it. When I picked them up I wa so busy looking at his layout I didn't look in detail at the loco's till I got home. Anyway... What I was thinking was this; the eviscerated RS3 has plenty to offer as a donor loco, to wit I can grab the end piece I need and people responding to my post expressed a need for an end piece (I'll have a spare if I go this route) and someone said they needed a cab. That would leave trucks and short hood up for grabs and of course the aforementioned "holed" long hood. Just so we're clear this a METAL hobbytown RS3 and with their chassis with the between truck driveshaft. My goal is if I can replace what I could get in refund for the one loco I would be happy, so if any of the parts interest you let me know. I'm in Toronto and would send by post. Since I'm pretty new here you can check my Ebay profile **jge** or call me at 416-901-6303 Cheers, Gareth _________________________________________________________________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE.� http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2966	From: jim gerstley	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Seems to me that Varney made short coaches with metal sides & plastic ends after the war. I remember the freight cars with paper side/ends w/wood roof, wood floor, and wood end supports with, I think, metal roof ribs that got individually attached. I may even still have some [not the coaches]. Jim Gerstley ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2967	From: cnj999	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainnut2441" <trainnut2441@...> wrote: > > Mike Bauer of Milwaukee has stated the Penn Line Crusader was first > produced in 1937. What documentation do you have to support this date? > Sincerely DAVE Spanagel > I'd say Mike B. has his dates a bit confused. The PennLine Reading Crusader was introduced in 1947. Very few kits for this item were ever produced but the real rarity are the RTR examples, which to my knowledge numbered just a couple. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2968	From: jay matz	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

The Crusader was penn-Lines first loco, came out in 1937 It was listed in the 1939 or 40 catalog. Jay cnj999 <jbortle@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "trainnut2441" <trainnut2441@ ...> wrote: > > Mike Bauer of Milwaukee has stated the Penn Line Crusader was first > produced in 1937. What documentation do you have to support this date? > Sincerely DAVE Spanagel > I'd say Mike B. has his dates a bit confused. The PennLine Reading Crusader was introduced in 1947. Very few kits for this item were ever produced but the real rarity are the RTR examples, which to my knowledge numbered just a couple. CNJ999 TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2969	From: Dst8596587@aol.com	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

I have a Crusader which needs some TLC but is restorable. When I got the engine some years ago, I was wondering who made it and so on. At the time I purchased it from a fellow who didn't want to mess with it because it didn't run, both Varney and Mantua were producing pacific type engines. A lot of train buffs I knew at the time thought it may have been a special Mantua run as they had produced a brass and metal Reading 4-6-2 with out the streamlining. Others thought it was a Varney because Varney had a streamlined engine they produced. Some correctly called it a Penn Line engine which led to some rather engaging arguments. The matter was dropped by all when my job was relocated and I packed it away with engines I considered more desirable for my purposes. As it wasn't high on my priority list I forgot about it until your thread reminded me I have it. Checked last night and it is still wrapped and waiting for me to do something. The engine is part of a limited run (one production run only) of Penn Lines first engine in the 1946 or 1947 year. I believe Penn Line remained in business untll the early to mid 1960 era. If some one has a 1939 catalouge that belongs to Penn Line, it is really rare. A history of the Penn Line company can be found both on the NMRA web or just type penn line in your browser to find it. The engine is not up for sale nor do I have the original box. Don AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2970	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

I'd say best look at Mike's post about this.....where he asked specifically for someone to point out WHERE he said that. This is almost like one of those party games where one person whispers a tidbit in their neighbor's ear and on around the circle it goes. "I think you're confused on this......... I suggest that you first need to quote [document] just where the heck you saw me post that!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA" I suppose I could add, since we're doing this anyway, Mike B. has announced his candidacy for President of The United States. > > Mike Bauer of Milwaukee has stated the Penn Line Crusader was first > > produced in 1937. What documentation do you have to support this > date? > > Sincerely DAVE Spanagel > > > > I'd say Mike B. has his dates a bit confused. The PennLine Reading > Crusader was introduced in 1947. Very few kits for this item were ever > produced but the real rarity are the RTR examples, which to my > knowledge numbered just a couple. > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2971	From: trainnut2441	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

--- Answer: HI Roger: This is DAVE Spanagel from the hoschsig. Yes J.C. Silversides initially produced sides in heavy embossed cardboard. They shifted over to embossed aluminum sides around 1948 or 1949. I could dig up our article on these sides. DAVE In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: > > I have a JC 00 passenger, but the sides are plain cardboard or fiber, > stamped out with some detail, i imagine there were variations. Can not > remember where I saw the foil/fiber lamination. Roger Aultman > > > > > > Glenn Joesten wrote: > > Earlier JC Silversides cars I have in OO have a foil layer over heavy > > paper, embossed. Later, O Scale car were aluminum sides. Crisper > > embossing than Walthers. > > > > > > > > Visit Your Group > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO; > > > > -- > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2972	From: trainnut2441	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

--- How many steps are you looking for. I think I have one complet with handrails and another where the handrails are loose. DAVE Spanagel. Secondly. These are still available from an outfit that bought out Hobbytown of Boston when they were last in Miami Fl. They are in NJ. I can look up their name and address if you wish. DAVE In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <rcjge@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys: > > I picked up a tidy Hobbytown RS3 today and it needs the > Pilot/Steps/Railing piece that fits on either end. > > Does anyone have one they would part with? Sorry for the pun! ;-) > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2973	From: trainnut2441	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: >CNJ: and Mike: Yes the ready to run version is rarer than Hen's teeth, but you cannot decerne the difference between the RTR and a beautifully built engine. I guess the only way to know for sure is if you had the original letters sent in to Penn Line ordering the RTR and the box the RTR version was shipped in. DAVE S. - trainnut2441 > I'd say best look at Mike's post about this.....where he asked > specifically for someone to point out WHERE he said that. > This is almost like one of those party games where one person whispers > a tidbit in their neighbor's ear and on around the circle it goes. > "I think you're confused on this......... > > I suggest that you first need to quote [document] just where the heck > you saw me post that!! > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA" > > I suppose I could add, since we're doing this anyway, Mike B. has > announced his candidacy for President of The United States. > > > > > > Mike Bauer of Milwaukee has stated the Penn Line Crusader was > first > > > produced in 1937. What documentation do you have to support this > > date? > > > Sincerely DAVE Spanagel > > > > > > > I'd say Mike B. has his dates a bit confused. The PennLine Reading > > Crusader was introduced in 1947. Very few kits for this item were > ever > > produced but the real rarity are the RTR examples, which to my > > knowledge numbered just a couple. > > > > CNJ999 > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2974	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Penn Line Crusader

In post 2900: Mike Penn-Line came out with the Crusader in 1937, Have one all apart and one mint in the desplay case. Jay Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2975	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

Those could be among the patterns lost in the fire when they were still in Woodland. ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:52 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 9:24 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps > Yes, I need one also. I am hoping that thye Hobbytown of Boston website > will open up again soon. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > If anyone's going to start chopping up a plastic Hobbytown for the ends for these guys, I got dibs on the cab! <G>. Not sure if Precision Scale still has them, but Kemtron did used to sell Alco ends for THEIR RS-3's in brass that may work. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2976	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...

----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <rcjge@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 11:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up... > Hi Dan: > > Well it might work. Someone on herre who knows both versions; plastic > and metal can jump in. Like i said if I can get a few pieces sold I > can forgo returning it and use the one step/Pilot. Any idea of what > you'd spend for a cab? I could send a mediocre picture if you like? I > say mediocre because the camera is in my Palm Zire and it's hard to > get good shots with it! > > Cheers, > Gareth I dunno, maybe five bucks plus postage? I don't think I paid $15 for the whole kit originally. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2977	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

I had some Varney shorty streamliners --plastic ends with lithographed steel body shells.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: jim gerstley To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches Seems to me that Varney made short coaches with metal sides & plastic ends after the war. I remember the freight cars with paper side/ends w/wood roof, wood floor, and wood end supports with, I think, metal roof ribs that got individually attached. I may even still have some [not the coaches]. Jim Gerstley ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2978	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

----- Original Message ----- From: "jim gerstley" <jimggers@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 12:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches > Seems to me that Varney made short coaches with metal sides & plastic > ends after the war. I remember the freight cars with paper side/ends > w/wood roof, wood floor, and wood end supports with, I think, metal > roof ribs that got individually attached. I may even still have some > [not the coaches]. > Jim Gerstley There were "shorty" streamliners that were metal starting in the early 1950's, that I believe lasted up until the Penn Line aquisition. In later years (ca. 1984) they were reissued by an outfit called "Locomotive Workshop" (The 1984 Walthers book lists a coach/diner/observation 3 car set as a "limited edition Union Pacific 60' Passenger car set". The freight car construction you mention was actually common to a number of makers. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2979	From: rcjge	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

HI: One complete would be fine. I want to see if I can part out the second one I have first. How much are you looking for? Thanks, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainnut2441" <trainnut2441@...> wrote: > > --- How many steps are you looking for. I think I have one complet > with handrails and another where the handrails are loose. DAVE > Spanagel. > Secondly. These are still available from an outfit that bought out > Hobbytown of Boston when they were last in Miami Fl. They are in NJ. > I can look up their name and address if you wish. DAVE > In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <rcjge@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys: > > > > I picked up a tidy Hobbytown RS3 today and it needs the > > Pilot/Steps/Railing piece that fits on either end. > > > > Does anyone have one they would part with? Sorry for the pun! ;-) > > > > Thanks, > > Gareth > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2980	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

trainnut2441 wrote: > --- Answer: HI Roger: This is DAVE Spanagel from the hoschsig. Yes > J.C. Silversides initially produced sides in heavy embossed > cardboard. They shifted over to embossed aluminum sides around 1948 > or 1949. I could dig up our article on these sides. DAVE Hello Dave Do you know how long the JC models were produced, seems like I bought some from the manufacturer in the 80's. Roger Aultman >> >> >> >>>Visit Your Group >>><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO; >>> >> >>-- >>http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm >> >>Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ >> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2981	From: cnj999	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> wrote: > > In post 2900: > > Mike > Penn-Line came out with the Crusader in 1937, Have one all apart and > one mint in the desplay case. > Jay > > Roger Aultman > Every reference that I have ever seen, and there are more than a few, indicate that the Penn Line Crusader was produced beginning either late 1946 or during 1947. There was only a single run and it sold out by late 1948. This is further backed up by ads in my 1947 copies of Model Railroader, which indicate this date as being the introduction of their model. To my knowledge, the Penn Line company did not even exist prior to 1946. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2982	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

Well.......... Since I would treasure such a find as much as you quite rightly do........... I've decided to console myself with one or two recent Bowser Pennsy T-1's with deluxe brass castings. I've explored what to do about re-powering it and whether to use one or two DCC modules for the two-motored steamer. I just might find a Crusader one day....... until then I'll be able to out-pull one !!!! 8^) Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Mar 4, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Dst8596587@... wrote: I have a Crusader which needs some TLC but is restorable. When I got the engine some years ago, I was wondering who made it and so on. At the time I purchased it from a fellow who didn't want to mess with it because it didn't run, both Varney and Mantua were producing pacific type engines. A lot of train buffs I knew at the time thought it may have been a special Mantua run as they had produced a brass and metal Reading 4-6-2 with out the streamlining. Others thought it was a Varney because Varney had a streamlined engine they produced. Some correctly called it a Penn Line engine which led to some rather engaging arguments. The matter was dropped by all when my job was relocated and I packed it away with engines I considered more desirable for my purposes. As it wasn't high on my priority list I forgot about it until your thread reminded me I have it. Checked last night and it is still wrapped and waiting for me to do something. The engine is part of a limited run The engine is not up for sale nor do I have the original box. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2983	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

Hey thanks........ I'd like to point out that that post was addressed to me, but posted by the fellow named just after what he wrote. I wasn't arguing about the fact, but that I didn't write it. I re- checked my 'sents' to make certain it wasn't me when I was first miss- quoted as doing so....... I just wish people would be more careful when they read........ and certainly when I am rather firmly asked for documentation on something I didn't just post....... Now that I got that out of my system... Life is good !!! I'm making decent progress on re-engineering Paul Moore's designs and applying the methods to long-simmering other, somewhat related projects. I've long admired his TOC arched window railcars and his assorted multi-powered Little Scoots and matching trailers. That's off topic for here. I'm after getting the Moore's I missed. But to today's standards. In two to six weeks, I should have some interesting upgrades out of computer graphics programs and at least a good start on real models of the same. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Mar 4, 2007, at 7:15 PM, Roger Aultman wrote: > In post 2900: > > Mike > Penn-Line came out with the Crusader in 1937, Have one all apart and > one mint in the desplay case. > Jay > > Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2984	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

Dear Guys,   I think a 1937 model of the Reading Crusader is...premature...premature to a train that began actual service on February 22,1938. That date I got from an Internet "surf" on the Reading Crusader. I would think 1947 is a more viable date.   John Barlow Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2985	From: erieberk	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

John, A 1937 model of the Reading Crusader would most definitely be too soon for its time. Out of curiosity, I put in a web search for < Reading Crusader February 22, 1938 > but came up with nothing, not that it matters. The actual inaugeral run and start of service for this train was December 13, 1937. This still would not have left much more than 2 weeks to produce a model in that year, with tooling, dies and everything else associated with marketing such a model. Incidentally, I have several original Reading Crusader brochures and timetables put out by the Reading Company, introducing the train, in and around late 1937 -- early 1938. The timetable/schedule announces the first run as effective December 13, 1937 (7:40AM - Philadelphia Reading Terminal). The web-search additionally turned up a < StanS Railpix > site, which stated the first run was December 12, 1937. I don't know where he got his information, as the Reading Company advertised the first run as December 13th, unless this was a non- revenue shake-down run. None-the-less, this train did not yet have a name at that time, and the through patrons were invited to submit a name of their choice to the Reading Company. There was a $250 cash award for the person who submitted the name that the Company accepted. It is quite possible that this name was not actually applied to this train until your February 22, 1938 date, even though the train was in operation at that time for well over 2 months. In any event, it would have been impossible for anyone to have produced such a model in 1937, whether it had a name or not, unless they were clairvoyant and started on it several months before the train ever introduced and operated. Just a side note -- the fair for a one-way trip between Philadelphia and New York City (includes ferry service across the Hudson River) was $1.80!!! Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Dear Guys, > > I think a 1937 model of the Reading Crusader is...premature...premature to a train that began actual service on February 22,1938. That date I got from an Internet "surf" on the Reading Crusader. I would think 1947 is a more viable date. > > John Barlow > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2986	From: erieberk	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches

Don, Yes, you're right, the one-piece stamped steel bodied "shorty" streamliner cars were produced right through to 1959, by which time Sol Kramer (Penn Line) had aquired the Varney Company. While the production of them started in the Fall of 1950, only catalog #'s S-1 through S-6 (B&O and UP Baggage-Coach, Coach and Observation) were available at first. Note; while both the B&O and UP Coach's were produced up until 1958, the Baggage-Coach and Obs of both of these roads were discontinued by 1953. Starting in 1953 and continuing until 1956, the catalog #'s S-10 (A), S-11 (A) and S-12 (A) -- Southern Pacific Silver & Red -- Combine, Coach and Observation were produced, when in 1956 the S-10 (B), S-11 (B) and S-12 (B) Southern Pacific Daylight Colors Combine, Coach and Observation were introduced and continued until 1959. Also in 1953, kit #'s S-7, S-8 and S-9 PRR, kit #'s S-13, S-14 and S- 15 IC and kit #'s S-16, S-17 and S-18 GN Combines, Coaches and Observations were produced until 1958. A later series -- kit #'s 2470, 2471 and 2472 was started in 1958 and contained PRR, SP (Silver), IC and GN in these same three indentical car kits. While the three (coach, diner and observation) Locomotive Workshop 60'cars in the Walthers #436-4 Set found on page 26 of their 1984 catalog look similar, none of the window configurations of any of these 3 cars match any of those in the Varney series. I would have to conclude that these are not re-issues of Varney, not only for that reason -- although L.W. could have made new stamping dies for the windows, if it were commercially feasable (profitable) to do so -- these one-piece L.W. "Limited Run" body shell sets show the rounded end of the roof of the obs as being an integral part of the metal body. The Varney Obs had a separate one-piece molded plastic roof end and obs tail piece made of the same material (and color) as that of their car ends, in the corresponding matching road color (black, grey, green or brown). Regards, Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > There were "shorty" streamliners that were metal starting in the early > 1950's, that I believe lasted up until the Penn Line aquisition. In later > years (ca. 1984) they were reissued by an outfit called "Locomotive > Workshop" (The 1984 Walthers book lists a coach/diner/observation 3 car set > as a "limited edition Union Pacific 60' Passenger car set". > > The freight car construction you mention was actually common to a number of > makers. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2987	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainnut2441" <trainnut2441@...> wrote: > > --- How many steps are you looking for. I think I have one complet > with handrails and another where the handrails are loose. DAVE > Spanagel. > Secondly. These are still available from an outfit that bought out > Hobbytown of Boston when they were last in Miami Fl. They are in NJ. > I can look up their name and address if you wish. DAVE > In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <rcjge@> wrote: > > > Hi Dave, I too need some detail parts for a Hobbytown RS-3(#0082 Marker Light, #0084 Brake Wheel, & #0256 Air Horn), but the company who bought Hobbytown of Boston, Bear Locomotive Company, PO Box 335, Whiting, NJ 08759, telephone 732-350-3630 is apparently gone as their telephone has been disconnected, and their website bearlocomo.zoovy.com is also gone as per the previous posts, & my own investigation. BTW, I refer to your fine book, "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains" very often, & used to be a member of your sig. Your book has been a big help, & I thank you! Ken > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2988	From: erieberk	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

Just in case one of my points were missed here by the Group -- How could Penn Line (or anyone) package and market a model of the Reading "CRUSADER" in 1937 (even if by some slim chance they were able to copy this prototype in short -- read; "instant" -- time), when even the Reading Company did not yet have a NAME for it!!! Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > John, A 1937 model of the Reading Crusader would most definitely be > too soon for its time. Out of curiosity, I put in a web search for < > Reading Crusader February 22, 1938 > but came up with nothing, not that > it matters. The actual inaugeral run and start of service for this > train was December 13, 1937. This still would not have left much more > than 2 weeks to produce a model in that year, with tooling, dies and > everything else associated with marketing such a model. > > Incidentally, I have several original Reading Crusader brochures and > timetables put out by the Reading Company, introducing the train, in > and around late 1937 -- early 1938. The timetable/schedule announces > the first run as effective December 13, 1937 (7:40AM - Philadelphia > Reading Terminal). The web-search additionally turned up a < StanS > Railpix > site, which stated the first run was December 12, 1937. I > don't know where he got his information, as the Reading Company > advertised the first run as December 13th, unless this was a non- > revenue shake-down run. > > None-the-less, this train did not yet have a name at that time, and the > through patrons were invited to submit a name of their choice to the > Reading Company. There was a $250 cash award for the person who > submitted the name that the Company accepted. It is quite possible > that this name was not actually applied to this train until your > February 22, 1938 date, even though the train was in operation at that > time for well over 2 months. In any event, it would have been > impossible for anyone to have produced such a model in 1937, whether it > had a name or not, unless they were clairvoyant and started on it > several months before the train ever introduced and operated. Just a > side note -- the fair for a one-way trip between Philadelphia and New > York City (includes ferry service across the Hudson River) was > $1.80!!! Ray W. > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > > > Dear Guys, > > > > I think a 1937 model of the Reading Crusader > is...premature...premature to a train that began actual service on > February 22,1938. That date I got from an Internet "surf" on the > Reading Crusader. I would think 1947 is a more viable date. > > > > John Barlow > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask > your question on Yahoo! Answers. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2989	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

Dear Group,   I dowloaded a copy of http://members.tripod.com/njrails/20th_Century/Reading/Crusader/Crusader.htm  and the source therein says the Crusader began service on "02/22/1938" from the CNJ Jersey City terminal to the Reading Terminal in Philadelphia. Now-a 1937 set/kit manufacturing date of the said prototype would be "premature" (I'm being euphemistic.) December 1937-February 1938...any kit maker would be hard-pressed to release anything that quickly unless (and I find this doubtful) he had a prior schematic of the train in question. That may have only occurred if the maker employed drawings and or information on the intended train during the reported naming contest the preceded the train's inaugral run or service.   There you go...I agree with that train of thought (no pun) that a Crusader model followed the inauguration of said train's service, whatever the date, and not before it.   John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...)   erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: Just in case one of my points were missed here by the Group -- How could Penn Line (or anyone) package and market a model of the Reading "CRUSADER" in 1937 (even if by some slim chance they were able to copy this prototype in short -- read; "instant" -- time), when even the Reading Company did not yet have a NAME for it!!! Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@.. .> wrote: > > John, A 1937 model of the Reading Crusader would most definitely be > too soon for its time. Out of curiosity, I put in a web search for < > Reading Crusader February 22, 1938 > but came up with nothing, not that > it matters. The actual inaugeral run and start of service for this > train was December 13, 1937. This still would not have left much more > than 2 weeks to produce a model in that year, with tooling, dies and > everything else associated with marketing such a model. > > Incidentally, I have several original Reading Crusader brochures and > timetables put out by the Reading Company, introducing the train, in > and around late 1937 -- early 1938. The timetable/schedule announces > the first run as effective December 13, 1937 (7:40AM - Philadelphia > Reading Terminal). The web-search additionally turned up a < StanS > Railpix > site, which stated the first run was December 12, 1937. I > don't know where he got his information, as the Reading Company > advertised the first run as December 13th, unless this was a non- > revenue shake-down run. > > None-the-less, this train did not yet have a name at that time, and the > through patrons were invited to submit a name of their choice to the > Reading Company. There was a $250 cash award for the person who > submitted the name that the Company accepted. It is quite possible > that this name was not actually applied to this train until your > February 22, 1938 date, even though the train was in operation at that > time for well over 2 months. In any event, it would have been > impossible for anyone to have produced such a model in 1937, whether it > had a name or not, unless they were clairvoyant and started on it > several months before the train ever introduced and operated. Just a > side note -- the fair for a one-way trip between Philadelphia and New > York City (includes ferry service across the Hudson River) was > $1.80!!! Ray W. > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Guys, > > > > I think a 1937 model of the Reading Crusader > is...premature. ..premature to a train that began actual service on > February 22,1938. That date I got from an Internet "surf" on the > Reading Crusader. I would think 1947 is a more viable date. > > > > John Barlow > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask > your question on Yahoo! Answers. > > > Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2990	From: erieberk	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

John, I think we can all agree that it was next to impossible for a model of a Reading Crusader to have been manufactured in 1937, and very improbable that it was produced by early 1938. I do, however, discount the statement that this train began service on 02/22/38, especially since I have printed documentation issued by the Reading Company (as described in my recent post on this subject -- you may have missed it), stating its initial day of service, with a complete timetable, as "Effective December 13, 1937." While I did go up to the web-site you supplied, I see nothing documenting a first day of service except that poster's own personal writings, which proves nothing, its merely heresay. The two images on the Site, to be clicked on and opened, show nothing as far as dates go. As effective December 13, 1937, the Eastbound tCrusader left Philadelphia at 7:40AM, arriving at Jersey City Terminal at 9:13AM (or about 1 1/2 hours later). The Westbound Crusader, that same first day, did not leave Jersey City until 10:12AM as per the timetable provided by the Reading Company. This obviously made the Eastbound Crusader the first train making the inaugural run. Even if it were possible to produce a model in a short time-frame, it could not have been labeled or marketed as the "CRUSADER" as the Reading Company did not even know themselves what this train was going to be called, pending the outcome of the naming contest. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > I dowloaded a copy of http://members.tripod.com/njrails/20th_Century/Reading/Crusader/Crusad er.htm and the source therein says the Crusader began service on "02/22/1938" from the CNJ Jersey City terminal to the Reading Terminal in Philadelphia. Now-a 1937 set/kit manufacturing date of the said prototype would be "premature" (I'm being euphemistic.) December 1937-February 1938...any kit maker would be hard-pressed to release anything that quickly unless (and I find this doubtful) he had a prior schematic of the train in question. That may have only occurred if the maker employed drawings and or information on the intended train during the reported naming contest the preceded the train's inaugral run or service. > > There you go...I agree with that train of thought (no pun) that a Crusader model followed the inauguration of said train's service, whatever the date, and not before it. > > John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...) > > erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: > Just in case one of my points were missed here by the Group -- How > could Penn Line (or anyone) package and market a model of the > Reading "CRUSADER" in 1937 (even if by some slim chance they were > able to copy this prototype in short -- read; "instant" -- time), > when even the Reading Company did not yet have a NAME for it!!! Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@> wrote: > > > > John, A 1937 model of the Reading Crusader would most definitely > be > > too soon for its time. Out of curiosity, I put in a web search for > < > > Reading Crusader February 22, 1938 > but came up with nothing, not > that > > it matters. The actual inaugeral run and start of service for this > > train was December 13, 1937. This still would not have left much > more > > than 2 weeks to produce a model in that year, with tooling, dies > and > > everything else associated with marketing such a model. > > > > Incidentally, I have several original Reading Crusader brochures > and > > timetables put out by the Reading Company, introducing the train, > in > > and around late 1937 -- early 1938. The timetable/schedule > announces > > the first run as effective December 13, 1937 (7:40AM - Philadelphia > > Reading Terminal). The web-search additionally turned up a < StanS > > Railpix > site, which stated the first run was December 12, 1937. > I > > don't know where he got his information, as the Reading Company > > advertised the first run as December 13th, unless this was a non- > > revenue shake-down run. > > > > None-the-less, this train did not yet have a name at that time, and > the > > through patrons were invited to submit a name of their choice to > the > > Reading Company. There was a $250 cash award for the person who > > submitted the name that the Company accepted. It is quite possible > > that this name was not actually applied to this train until your > > February 22, 1938 date, even though the train was in operation at > that > > time for well over 2 months. In any event, it would have been > > impossible for anyone to have produced such a model in 1937, > whether it > > had a name or not, unless they were clairvoyant and started on it > > several months before the train ever introduced and operated. Just > a > > side note -- the fair for a one-way trip between Philadelphia and > New > > York City (includes ferry service across the Hudson River) was > > $1.80!!! Ray W. > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Guys, > > > > > > I think a 1937 model of the Reading Crusader > > is...premature...premature to a train that began actual service on > > February 22,1938. That date I got from an Internet "surf" on the > > Reading Crusader. I would think 1947 is a more viable date. > > > > > > John Barlow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask > > your question on Yahoo! Answers. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a PS3 game guru. > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2991	From: Garry Spear	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

The Penn Line Crusader was introduced after WWII. NO 6 Volt motor in any PL Crusader.  All pre war HO motors wer 6 Volt.  I own a few that have been converted, and maybe a couple that have not been converted. I have two friends that each own one. Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2992	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

Ray,   No need to sweat it, sir. The significant thing about the prototype is that it ran for about 43-44 years through three technical incarnations (steam-cab diesel-RDC) and two railroad ownerships of the name for that train and was probably among the shortest runs one way (I think the bullet-nosed Southern Railways "Tennesseean" ran a much shorter distance but did not exist for anywhere near as long.) There is joy to be had in the steam beast...whatever the year of the replica's manufacture. Mine is CB/NJI...and I waited over 12 years to get it. I'm happy.   John (jdenver4150@...)  erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: John, I think we can all agree that it was next to impossible for a model of a Reading Crusader to have been manufactured in 1937, and very improbable that it was produced by early 1938. I do, however, discount the statement that this train began service on 02/22/38, especially since I have printed documentation issued by the Reading Company (as described in my recent post on this subject -- you may have missed it), stating its initial day of service, with a complete timetable, as "Effective December 13, 1937." While I did go up to the web-site you supplied, I see nothing documenting a first day of service except that poster's own personal writings, which proves nothing, its merely heresay. The two images on the Site, to be clicked on and opened, show nothing as far as dates go. As effective December 13, 1937, the Eastbound tCrusader left Philadelphia at 7:40AM, arriving at Jersey City Terminal at 9:13AM (or about 1 1/2 hours later). The Westbound Crusader, that same first day, did not leave Jersey City until 10:12AM as per the timetable provided by the Reading Company. This obviously made the Eastbound Crusader the first train making the inaugural run. Even if it were possible to produce a model in a short time-frame, it could not have been labeled or marketed as the "CRUSADER" as the Reading Company did not even know themselves what this train was going to be called, pending the outcome of the naming contest. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > I dowloaded a copy of http://members. tripod.com/ njrails/20th_ Century/Reading/ Crusader/ Crusad er.htm and the source therein says the Crusader began service on "02/22/1938" from the CNJ Jersey City terminal to the Reading Terminal in Philadelphia. Now-a 1937 set/kit manufacturing date of the said prototype would be "premature" (I'm being euphemistic. ) December 1937-February 1938...any kit maker would be hard-pressed to release anything that quickly unless (and I find this doubtful) he had a prior schematic of the train in question. That may have only occurred if the maker employed drawings and or information on the intended train during the reported naming contest the preceded the train's inaugral run or service. > > There you go...I agree with that train of thought (no pun) that a Crusader model followed the inauguration of said train's service, whatever the date, and not before it. > > John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@ ...) > > erieberk <erieberk@.. .> wrote: > Just in case one of my points were missed here by the Group -- How > could Penn Line (or anyone) package and market a model of the > Reading "CRUSADER" in 1937 (even if by some slim chance they were > able to copy this prototype in short -- read; "instant" -- time), > when even the Reading Company did not yet have a NAME for it!!! Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@> wrote: > > > > John, A 1937 model of the Reading Crusader would most definitely > be > > too soon for its time. Out of curiosity, I put in a web search for > < > > Reading Crusader February 22, 1938 > but came up with nothing, not > that > > it matters. The actual inaugeral run and start of service for this > > train was December 13, 1937. This still would not have left much > more > > than 2 weeks to produce a model in that year, with tooling, dies > and > > everything else associated with marketing such a model. > > > > Incidentally, I have several original Reading Crusader brochures > and > > timetables put out by the Reading Company, introducing the train, > in > > and around late 1937 -- early 1938. The timetable/schedule > announces > > the first run as effective December 13, 1937 (7:40AM - Philadelphia > > Reading Terminal). The web-search additionally turned up a < StanS > > Railpix > site, which stated the first run was December 12, 1937. > I > > don't know where he got his information, as the Reading Company > > advertised the first run as December 13th, unless this was a non- > > revenue shake-down run. > > > > None-the-less, this train did not yet have a name at that time, and > the > > through patrons were invited to submit a name of their choice to > the > > Reading Company. There was a $250 cash award for the person who > > submitted the name that the Company accepted. It is quite possible > > that this name was not actually applied to this train until your > > February 22, 1938 date, even though the train was in operation at > that > > time for well over 2 months. In any event, it would have been > > impossible for anyone to have produced such a model in 1937, > whether it > > had a name or not, unless they were clairvoyant and started on it > > several months before the train ever introduced and operated. Just > a > > side note -- the fair for a one-way trip between Philadelphia and > New > > York City (includes ferry service across the Hudson River) was > > $1.80!!! Ray W. > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Guys, > > > > > > I think a 1937 model of the Reading Crusader > > is...premature. ..premature to a train that began actual service on > > February 22,1938. That date I got from an Internet "surf" on the > > Reading Crusader. I would think 1947 is a more viable date. > > > > > > John Barlow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask > > your question on Yahoo! Answers. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Be a PS3 game guru. > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. > Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2993	From: rcjge	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainnut2441" <trainnut2441@...> wrote: > Hi Dave: What do you think hang on to the HT RS3 as a Parts loco? I've had a request for trucks and one pilot plus cab... Cheers, Gareth > --- How many steps are you looking for. I think I have one complet > with handrails and another where the handrails are loose. DAVE > Spanagel. > Secondly. These are still available from an outfit that bought out > Hobbytown of Boston when they were last in Miami Fl. They are in NJ. > I can look up their name and address if you wish. DAVE > In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <rcjge@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys: > > > > I picked up a tidy Hobbytown RS3 today and it needs the > > Pilot/Steps/Railing piece that fits on either end. > > > > Does anyone have one they would part with? Sorry for the pun! ;-) > > > > Thanks, > > Gareth > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2994	From: rcjge	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps

Hi Ken: What HT RS3 parts do you need? are what would you offer for them? Let me know and I'll check my Parts loco! Let me know off list, Thanks. Cheers, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainnut2441" <trainnut2441@> > wrote: > > > > --- How many steps are you looking for. I think I have one complet > > with handrails and another where the handrails are loose. DAVE > > Spanagel. > > Secondly. These are still available from an outfit that bought out > > Hobbytown of Boston when they were last in Miami Fl. They are in > NJ. > > I can look up their name and address if you wish. DAVE > > In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <rcjge@> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Dave, > > I too need some detail parts for a Hobbytown RS-3(#0082 Marker > Light, #0084 Brake Wheel, & #0256 Air Horn), but the company who bought > Hobbytown of Boston, Bear Locomotive Company, PO Box 335, Whiting, NJ > 08759, telephone 732-350-3630 is apparently gone as their telephone has > been disconnected, and their website bearlocomo.zoovy.com is also gone > as per the previous posts, & my own investigation. > > BTW, I refer to your fine book, "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains" > very often, & used to be a member of your sig. Your book has been a big > help, & I thank you! Ken > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2995	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Athearn couplers needed

Need some final bits to get "completed" on these Athearn F-7's. I need two long front couplers for the either Hi-F or dummy "A", part number 90607. These are the ones with the coil spring that fit into a box that screws to the mount. I have the boxes, springs and screws. Just need the two. Anybody have any in a junkbox? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2996	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

I found the Pennline history On-Line. The company was started in '46 and the Crusader was the companies first product. http://members.aol.com/fydill/articles/early.html http://members.aol.com/fydill/articles/crusader.jpg I think someone posted this before, the site looked familiar. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Mar 5, 2007, at 8:28 PM, Garry Spear wrote: The Penn Line Crusader was introduced after WWII. NO 6 Volt motor in any PL Crusader.  All pre war HO motors wer 6 Volt.  I own a few that have been converted, and maybe a couple that have not been converted. I have two friends that each own one. Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2997	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Hey Guys, I have more proof! I just came accross a photo that is very interesting and quite revealing... Please not the Whitcomb in the photo has no rear steps, The instruction sheet has a photo of the rear of the engine... The motor is sticking out of the rear of the photo... Sean The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2998	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Ah, but the model does! > > Hey Guys, I have more proof! > I just came accross a photo that is very interesting and quite revealing... Please not the Whitcomb in the photo has no rear steps, The instruction sheet has a photo of the rear of the engine... The motor is sticking out of the rear of the photo... Sean > > > > --------------------------------- > The fish are biting. > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 2999	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

Dear Sean and Others,   Has anyone noticed that the earliest Penn Line boxart and colors emulate that of the Reading Crusader? Strange that the company fixated on that-and brought out the Crusader as their first piece. No "pop psychology" here, but I think the Reading train really fascinated whoever in those days.   John  sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hey Guys, I have more proof! I just came accross a photo that is very interesting and quite revealing... Please not the Whitcomb in the photo has no rear steps, The instruction sheet has a photo of the rear of the engine... The motor is sticking out of the rear of the photo... Sean The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3000	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: HO Seeker site back up....

It looks like the HO Seeker information site at: http://www.hoseeker.net is at least partially back on line. Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3001	From: erieberk	Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

John, Yes, the Crusader had to have one of the shortest runs of any major carrier's name train that I can think of. Even the Southern's Tennesseean ran a much longer distance, from Memphis to Washington. In a way, it was strange (but very fortunate) that this prototype was chosen to be modeled, with a seemingly limited interest in the real train which wasn't to be observed by a large number of railroad modelers during its short route. Interestingly, there weren't many (any?) other prototypical strictly- passenger engine models produced during those early years, which were devoted solely to one passenger train (or even one railroad's passenger trains). Hudsons, K-4's, GG-1's and the like could also be used for freight. Varney's streamlined boiler could be modified (and is suggested to so in the instructions) to follow the railroad of your choice, and could be made to closely resemble several prototypes; some moreso than others. With some work, a fair representation of an SP Sunbeam or an LV Black Diamond could be had, even though this boiler followed no certain prototype. In a way, its amazing that Penn Line even considered making this model. The thought of any pre-War engine being 6 volt, as Garry pointed out, also crossed my mind earlier, and I could not remember ever hearing about a 6 volt motored Crusader, but then I've never heard of a pre-War Crusader anyhow, for obvious reasons, but that's a good point. The choice of buying a CB/NJI model of this was a wise one in my opinion, even if its not collectable from a nostalgic standpoint. You certainly wouldn't spend any less if you did come across a Penn Line version, and at least you have a model of one now to enjoy. Happy railroading. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > No need to sweat it, sir. The significant thing about the prototype is that it ran for about 43-44 years through three technical incarnations (steam-cab diesel-RDC) and two railroad ownerships of the name for that train and was probably among the shortest runs one way (I think the bullet-nosed Southern Railways "Tennesseean" ran a much shorter distance but did not exist for anywhere near as long.) There is joy to be had in the steam beast...whatever the year of the replica's manufacture. Mine is CB/NJI...and I waited over 12 years to get it. I'm happy. > > John (jdenver4150@...) > > erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: > John, I think we can all agree that it was next to impossible for a > model of a Reading Crusader to have been manufactured in 1937, and > very improbable that it was produced by early 1938. I do, however, > discount the statement that this train began service on 02/22/38, > especially since I have printed documentation issued by the Reading > Company (as described in my recent post on this subject -- you may > have missed it), stating its initial day of service, with a complete > timetable, as "Effective December 13, 1937." While I did go up to > the web-site you supplied, I see nothing documenting a first day of > service except that poster's own personal writings, which proves > nothing, its merely heresay. The two images on the Site, to be > clicked on and opened, show nothing as far as dates go. > > As effective December 13, 1937, the Eastbound tCrusader left > Philadelphia at 7:40AM, arriving at Jersey City Terminal at 9:13AM > (or about 1 1/2 hours later). The Westbound Crusader, that same > first day, did not leave Jersey City until 10:12AM as per the > timetable provided by the Reading Company. This obviously made the > Eastbound Crusader the first train making the inaugural run. > > Even if it were possible to produce a model in a short time-frame, it > could not have been labeled or marketed as the "CRUSADER" as the > Reading Company did not even know themselves what this train was > going to be called, pending the outcome of the naming contest. Ray W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > > > Dear Group, > > > > I dowloaded a copy of > http://members.tripod.com/njrails/20th_Century/Reading/Crusader/Crusad > er.htm and the source therein says the Crusader began service > on "02/22/1938" from the CNJ Jersey City terminal to the Reading > Terminal in Philadelphia. Now-a 1937 set/kit manufacturing date of > the said prototype would be "premature" (I'm being euphemistic.) > December 1937-February 1938...any kit maker would be hard-pressed to > release anything that quickly unless (and I find this doubtful) he > had a prior schematic of the train in question. That may have only > occurred if the maker employed drawings and or information on the > intended train during the reported naming contest the preceded the > train's inaugral run or service. > > > > There you go...I agree with that train of thought (no pun) that a > Crusader model followed the inauguration of said train's service, > whatever the date, and not before it. > > > > John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@) > > > > erieberk <erieberk@> wrote: > > Just in case one of my points were missed here by the > Group -- How > > could Penn Line (or anyone) package and market a model of the > > Reading "CRUSADER" in 1937 (even if by some slim chance they were > > able to copy this prototype in short -- read; "instant" -- time), > > when even the Reading Company did not yet have a NAME for it!!! Ray > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@> wrote: > > > > > > John, A 1937 model of the Reading Crusader would most definitely > > be > > > too soon for its time. Out of curiosity, I put in a web search > for > > < > > > Reading Crusader February 22, 1938 > but came up with nothing, > not > > that > > > it matters. The actual inaugeral run and start of service for > this > > > train was December 13, 1937. This still would not have left much > > more > > > than 2 weeks to produce a model in that year, with tooling, dies > > and > > > everything else associated with marketing such a model. > > > > > > Incidentally, I have several original Reading Crusader brochures > > and > > > timetables put out by the Reading Company, introducing the train, > > in > > > and around late 1937 -- early 1938. The timetable/schedule > > announces > > > the first run as effective December 13, 1937 (7:40AM - > Philadelphia > > > Reading Terminal). The web-search additionally turned up a < > StanS > > > Railpix > site, which stated the first run was December 12, 1937. > > I > > > don't know where he got his information, as the Reading Company > > > advertised the first run as December 13th, unless this was a non- > > > revenue shake-down run. > > > > > > None-the-less, this train did not yet have a name at that time, > and > > the > > > through patrons were invited to submit a name of their choice to > > the > > > Reading Company. There was a $250 cash award for the person who > > > submitted the name that the Company accepted. It is quite > possible > > > that this name was not actually applied to this train until your > > > February 22, 1938 date, even though the train was in operation at > > that > > > time for well over 2 months. In any event, it would have been > > > impossible for anyone to have produced such a model in 1937, > > whether it > > > had a name or not, unless they were clairvoyant and started on it > > > several months before the train ever introduced and operated. > Just > > a > > > side note -- the fair for a one-way trip between Philadelphia and > > New > > > York City (includes ferry service across the Hudson River) was > > > $1.80!!! Ray W. > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Guys, > > > > > > > > I think a 1937 model of the Reading Crusader > > > is...premature...premature to a train that began actual service > on > > > February 22,1938. That date I got from an Internet "surf" on the > > > Reading Crusader. I would think 1947 is a more viable date. > > > > > > > > John Barlow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. > Ask > > > your question on Yahoo! Answers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a PS3 game guru. > > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at > Yahoo! Games. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3002	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

----- Original Message ----- From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Crusader > John, Yes, the Crusader had to have one of the shortest runs of any > major carrier's name train that I can think of. Even the Southern's > Tennesseean ran a much longer distance, from Memphis to Washington. > In a way, it was strange (but very fortunate) that this prototype was > chosen to be modeled, with a seemingly limited interest in the real > train which wasn't to be observed by a large number of railroad > modelers during its short route. > > Interestingly, there weren't many (any?) other prototypical strictly- > passenger engine models produced during those early years, which were > devoted solely to one passenger train (or even one railroad's > passenger trains). Hudsons, K-4's, GG-1's and the like could also be > used for freight. Varney's streamlined boiler could be modified (and > is suggested to so in the instructions) to follow the railroad of > your choice, and could be made to closely resemble several > prototypes; some moreso than others. With some work, a fair > representation of an SP Sunbeam or an LV Black Diamond could be had, > even though this boiler followed no certain prototype. > > In a way, its amazing that Penn Line even considered making this > model. The thought of any pre-War engine being 6 volt, as Garry > pointed out, also crossed my mind earlier, and I could not remember > ever hearing about a 6 volt motored Crusader, but then I've never > heard of a pre-War Crusader anyhow, for obvious reasons, but that's a > good point. > > The choice of buying a CB/NJI model of this was a wise one in my > opinion, even if its not collectable from a nostalgic standpoint. > You certainly wouldn't spend any less if you did come across a Penn > Line version, and at least you have a model of one now to enjoy. > Happy railroading. Ray W. I don't know how long the Crusader's run was, but one of the very first "classic" streamlined locos was the Milwaukee Road class A (photos in another thread a couple weeks ago), 4 were built in 1934 for dedicated service on the "Hiawatha", between Chicago & the twin cities via Milwaukee, approximately 400 miles. In fact, that's how competitor C&NW came up with their "400" trains. The Chicago-Minneapolis train was "400 miles in 400 minutes". The "Morning Hi" also lasted from 1934 right up to Amtrak. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3003	From: Larry	Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

This topic is coincidental. I recently received the history of Penn Line from the Frank Dill Collection. He is allowing me to add these web pages to HOseeker.net. Included in this information is history of Penn Line, pictures, diagrams and instructions including the Crusader. After a server update, I need to get the website completely up and running again. Then I can start adding this new Penn Line information. I will let ever one know when the information is added. Larry http://hoseeker.net/pennlineinformation.html --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 9:53 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Crusader > > > > John, Yes, the Crusader had to have one of the shortest runs of any > > major carrier's name train that I can think of. Even the Southern's > > Tennesseean ran a much longer distance, from Memphis to Washington. > > In a way, it was strange (but very fortunate) that this prototype was > > chosen to be modeled, with a seemingly limited interest in the real > > train which wasn't to be observed by a large number of railroad > > modelers during its short route. > > > > Interestingly, there weren't many (any?) other prototypical strictly- > > passenger engine models produced during those early years, which were > > devoted solely to one passenger train (or even one railroad's > > passenger trains). Hudsons, K-4's, GG-1's and the like could also be > > used for freight. Varney's streamlined boiler could be modified (and > > is suggested to so in the instructions) to follow the railroad of > > your choice, and could be made to closely resemble several > > prototypes; some moreso than others. With some work, a fair > > representation of an SP Sunbeam or an LV Black Diamond could be had, > > even though this boiler followed no certain prototype. > > > > In a way, its amazing that Penn Line even considered making this > > model. The thought of any pre-War engine being 6 volt, as Garry > > pointed out, also crossed my mind earlier, and I could not remember > > ever hearing about a 6 volt motored Crusader, but then I've never > > heard of a pre-War Crusader anyhow, for obvious reasons, but that's a > > good point. > > > > The choice of buying a CB/NJI model of this was a wise one in my > > opinion, even if its not collectable from a nostalgic standpoint. > > You certainly wouldn't spend any less if you did come across a Penn > > Line version, and at least you have a model of one now to enjoy. > > Happy railroading. Ray W. > > I don't know how long the Crusader's run was, but one of the very first > "classic" streamlined locos was the Milwaukee Road class A (photos in > another thread a couple weeks ago), 4 were built in 1934 for dedicated > service on the "Hiawatha", between Chicago & the twin cities via Milwaukee, > approximately 400 miles. In fact, that's how competitor C&NW came up with > their "400" trains. The Chicago-Minneapolis train was "400 miles in 400 > minutes". The "Morning Hi" also lasted from 1934 right up to Amtrak. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3004	From: Larry	Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: Congratulations Foothill Shortline Ry

Congratulations Ken on winning the Vintage HO homepage photo contest. I have always liked this photo. If anyone would like to see more of Ken's project photo's follow this link. http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/foothillshortline Larry

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3005	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: E-mail snafus

Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@... Apparently our servers must not like each other. E-mail me if you haven't received anything from me. 3 sent yesterday. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3006	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: Re: Congratulations Foothill Shortline Ry

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote: > > Congratulations Ken on winning the Vintage HO homepage photo contest. > I have always liked this photo. If anyone would like to see more of > Ken's project photo's follow this link. > > http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/foothillshortline > > Larry Thankyou very much for the kind words Larry! It's an honor for me to have been chosen as the contest winner for the Vintage HO site that Don Dellmann has put together to bring us "vintage" people together too! It's a great tool for me, & I'm always learning from the postings. Speaking of tools, your HO Seeker site has been a really big help as it's a one of a kind compilation where you've kindly assembled a wealth of hard to locate information. Keep up the good work Larry! Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3007	From: cnj999	Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

Perhaps as a parting shot on the subject of Penn Line and their HO Reading Crusader locomotive, I offer the following chronicle of ads from the pages of Model Railroader magazine. June 1947, page 508, very small "box" ad at the top of page (the first ever ad by Penn Line in the magazine), reads - "STOP! LOOK! LISTEN! LOCOMOTIVE COMING! (HO gauge) See next month's Model Railroader. The PENN LINE" July 1947 issue, page 594, very modest-sized add, no illustration, reads - "CRUSADER ON TIME! Ar. - August '47 on Track HO Just around the bend is a streamlined steam-type, dream-type locomotive that will treat your eyes and please your pocketbook! Be sure to look for the sturdy HO creation next month. We believe you will like everything about it. The PENN LINE" Finally, on page 664 of the August 1947 issue, the big announcement in a half-page ad, reading - "CRUSADER...Arrives on Schedule! NOW for the first time in HO history A completely streamlined steam-type locomotive! (an illustration and a detailed description of the model followed) Factory assembled and test run; loco and tender complete. Immediate delivery, order today.......$49.50 The PENN LINE 41 North Reading Avenue Boyertown, Pa." That's the way it went, folks - CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3008	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: 1957 Athearn dual-geared Geep

Just posted a photo in "Dave's stuff" in the photo section. I got this the other day, and figured I'd see what it would do. Had to make one sideframe to fit (they are plastic) from another source, but it fit fine. Amazingly quiet (compared to tower drives), all metal gearboxes screwed together reminiscent of the older die-cast Varney F-3's. HUGE motor (for Athearn diesels), pulls amazingly strong. Gotta make coupler boxes, I slapped an old GN shell on it (standard Athearn Geep shells snap right on). Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3009	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Newbie to the Group

I happened to catch an chance reference to this group in another Yahoo chat group and decided to join. It is nice to know that I am not the only collector of old HO out there. I have been a model railroader since the 50s and kept a lot of my stuff and have bought more over the years. I noticed the thread on the Penn Line Crusader and knew immeidately that I was "home." I have a penchant for Penn Line Midget diesels (I had one as my first HO locomotive back in 1955) and have four of them now. I will try to lay low for a while and 'listen' to talk but just wanted to introduce myself and thank all of you for creating this group. Matt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3010	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > I happened to catch an chance reference to this group in another Yahoo > chat group and decided to join. It is nice to know that I am not the > only collector of old HO out there. I have been a model railroader > since the 50s and kept a lot of my stuff and have bought more over the > years. I noticed the thread on the Penn Line Crusader and knew > immeidately that I was "home." I have a penchant for Penn Line Midget > diesels (I had one as my first HO locomotive back in 1955) and have > four of them now. > > I will try to lay low for a while and 'listen' to talk but just wanted > to introduce myself and thank all of you for creating this group. > > Matt Welcome to the Group Matt! We look foreward to your feedback too! Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3011	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group

Hello Matt, Did you happen to read the thread about the Penn Line Mini (Midget) Whitcomb? If you are a fan of it, I would love to hear your opinion. I started the thread. In a week or so, I plan to obtain more proof to my arguement in the thread.   ps. Welome!   Sean I happened to catch an chance reference to this group in another Yahoo chat group and decided to join. It is nice to know that I am not the only collector of old HO out there. I have been a model railroader since the 50s and kept a lot of my stuff and have bought more over the years. I noticed the thread on the Penn Line Crusader and knew immeidately that I was "home." I have a penchant for Penn Line Midget diesels (I had one as my first HO locomotive back in 1955) and have four of them now. I will try to lay low for a while and 'listen' to talk but just wanted to introduce myself and thank all of you for creating this group. Matt It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3012	From: James B	Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Model Train Show Reminder March 11th Cedarburg, WI

NEW LAYOUTS FEATURED AT TRAIN SHOW Two new model train layouts will be featured at METRO Model Railroad Club's annual railroad show and swap meet. The event is scheduled for Sunday, March 11th at Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg. For the first time, all gauges of model railroading will be represented. One of the new participants is the WIZKidZ, (Wisconsin Illinois Z KidZ) who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so small that a layout can be built in a cigar box, and indeed two cigar box layouts and a much larger layout will be displayed by this group. The Milwaukee `N Southeastern club will bring an N scale layout that has never been shown locally before. It features various scenes of small town America featuring large amounts of vehicles and various eye catching scenes such as a train derailment, train watching park, and many more. METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged best in the nation at the National Train Show. One of the most highly detailed layouts ever built and now freshened up after many years of display, it has many animations and numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will again be bringing a Lionel layout to the show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some of their favorite movie and TV characters, including Buzz and Woody from Toy Story, Mike and Sulley from Monsters Inc., Nemo and his friends, and many more. Other returnees include the Badgerland S Gaugers showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will showing examples of G scale equipment that is most frequently used to create outdoor garden railroads and also some #1 scale trains. The Grandkids Railroad will be on hand with its dazzling display of lights and sounds. In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W and other decals, Cannonball Models of Madison that specializes in N scale, Enginehouse Services of Green Bay, Mullet River & Southern Hobbies, Setco Trains, The Toy Train Depot with a huge selection of railroad video's, as well as many other dealers. The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader. This is the 12th consecutive year for the show, which has become the largest in southeast Wisconsin after Milwaukee's TrainFest. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub. org. Show hours are 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Admission is by a $2 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, and Tires Unlimited Automotive Services. Further details can be obtained by calling Ray Meyer at 262- 284-5566 (rgmeyer2@...) during business hours or by calling Jim Bartelt at 262-284-5876 (jimbartelt@...) at other times James Bartelt jimbartelt@... Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList? u=1751079 METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3013	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: A Question About Champ Locos

I have an old Champ 2-6-2 loco that appears to be of a Milwaukee prototype. It has a plastic (Bakelite?) superstructure and metal running gear. The drivers are solid with the spokes simply replicated as surface detail much like the drivers on the old AF HO Hudson. Anyone know anything about who produced them and when? The appear every now and then on eBay but haven't seen any in a while. Matt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3014	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group

Sean, I read the thread as best I could (there were 56 different responses to the original question about the instructions.) Of the four (actually five) Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesels (the official term for it in the old catalog) that I own I have variations of both the drive systems. The oldest drive system used a belt instead of gears on the end of the DC60 motor. The version I have has bronze bearings on all the axles and shafts where then come in contact with the Zamac. It runs very well. I have seen some variants that used the Zamac casting as the bearing surface. Whether that was the first version or a later cost- cutting measure I don't know. I do know that after the Midget had been out a few years the ads in MR noted that the Midget was now "re- engineered with all-gear drive" and the price dropped from $13.95 down to $9.95 (the price my father paid for mine in 1955.) These are the more common (and better running) variants. Outside of being able to stand on a very rusty one down in Florida many years ago I don't have much knowledge of the prototype. The following are probably links you all have but they are the only ones I have found with what appear to be prototype photos for the 20-ton version that Penn Line apparently used as a prototype. http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_csrm.jpg http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/nysw150.jpg http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/mcc25a.jpg Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello Matt, > Did you happen to read the thread about the Penn Line Mini (Midget) Whitcomb? If you are a fan of it, I would love to hear your opinion. I started the thread. In a week or so, I plan to obtain more proof to my arguement in the thread. > > ps. Welome! > > Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3015	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group

Hello Matt, Thank you for the pics. Great addition!  I did not have them, nor have I ever seen them. So, in your opinion, is the green engine I have pictures in my "Some of my man projects" folder a Penn Line? It looks to be altered, but I believe it is... Do any of yours have the brass plate on the bottom? On your versions, are they all the same shee? or, did the shell change at all as well? Sean mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: Sean, I read the thread as best I could (there were 56 different responses to the original question about the instructions. ) Of the four (actually five) Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesels (the official term for it in the old catalog) that I own I have variations of both the drive systems. The oldest drive system used a belt instead of gears on the end of the DC60 motor. The version I have has bronze bearings on all the axles and shafts where then come in contact with the Zamac. It runs very well. I have seen some variants that used the Zamac casting as the bearing surface. Whether that was the first version or a later cost- cutting measure I don't know. I do know that after the Midget had been out a few years the ads in MR noted that the Midget was now "re- engineered with all-gear drive" and the price dropped from $13.95 down to $9.95 (the price my father paid for mine in 1955.) These are the more common (and better running) variants. Outside of being able to stand on a very rusty one down in Florida many years ago I don't have much knowledge of the prototype. The following are probably links you all have but they are the only ones I have found with what appear to be prototype photos for the 20-ton version that Penn Line apparently used as a prototype. http://www.northeas t.railfan. net/images/ tr_csrm.jpg http://www.northeas t.railfan. net/images/ nysw150.jpg http://www.northeas t.railfan. net/images/ mcc25a.jpg Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Matt, > Did you happen to read the thread about the Penn Line Mini (Midget) Whitcomb? If you are a fan of it, I would love to hear your opinion. I started the thread. In a week or so, I plan to obtain more proof to my arguement in the thread. > > ps. Welome! > > Sean > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3016	From: jim gerstley	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: selling off models and books

A friend of mine passed away last year and his wife and daughter want to sell off his collection of books and HO models. He was mainly into passenger trains and electric locomotives. He lived in Arizona. His daughter is not into ebay. Anyone have any suggestions on how to dispose of the collection? Jim Gerstley

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3017	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books

Couple of ideas, first being a train show, second if he was a member of a club or the nmra, they have the ability to do that. DO NOT let anybody "cherry-pick" the stuff! Put it together in "lots". Someone may want a baggage and obs, you'll be stuck with the rest. Let THEM deal with parting what they don't want! One other idea is to list it here. Somebody may want some of it. Dave > > A friend of mine passed away last year and his wife and daughter want to sell off his > collection of books and HO models. He was mainly into passenger trains and electric > locomotives. He lived in Arizona. His daughter is not into ebay. Anyone have any > suggestions on how to dispose of the collection? > Jim Gerstley >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3018	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books

Perhaps locate a local model railroad club might have folks in it that would sell on ebay on commission. Either for themselves individually or for the club coffers. Sometimes hobby shop folks buy lots, but at rock bottom prices. You could advertise the entire lot locally. Model railroaders are everywhere. Somebody might just buy it all who might keep some, and sell what they don't want. If there are any high dollar books or trains, it's worth hooking up with somebody honorable in such things. Chuck Kinzer Quoting jim gerstley <jimggers@...>: > A friend of mine passed away last year and his wife and daughter > want to sell off his > collection of books and HO models. He was mainly into passenger > trains and electric > locomotives. He lived in Arizona. His daughter is not into ebay. > Anyone have any > suggestions on how to dispose of the collection? > Jim Gerstley > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3019	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group

Sean, I looked at your photos in the files section and yes, all of the small 0-4-0 diesels you have are Penn Line Whitcomb Midgets. The one with the large headlight is just someones superdetailing of an original. From what I could see through the windows, the gears and windings on the motors look to be in good shape so you have some nice treasures there! Good luck with the restoration. Invest in some good paint remover (I use the heavy duty gel that you can get in Hardware stores or Home Depot) because it doesn't oxidize the lead in the body castings. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello Matt, > Thank you for the pics. Great addition! I did not have them, nor have I ever seen them. So, in your opinion, is the green engine I have pictures in my "Some of my man projects" folder a Penn Line? It looks to be altered, but I believe it is... Do any of yours have the brass plate on the bottom? On your versions, are they all the same shee? or, did the shell change at all as well? > Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3020	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb drives Mod 1 and Mod 2 in Sean's Folder

Sean, I didn't realize you had a second page to your photos. I just found it and you have two great examples of the two types of drives used by Penn Line for the Midget Diesel. The motor with the pulley on the end is the older drive, the all-gear drive is the later version. Nice examples! Glad you posted the photos. Matt ps: All the files and photo albums in this group are great. I have been grazing through them looking at all the neat stuff people have found. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello Matt, > Thank you for the pics. Great addition! I did not have them, nor have I ever seen them. So, in your opinion, is the green engine I have pictures in my "Some of my man projects" folder a Penn Line? It looks to be altered, but I believe it is... Do any of yours have the brass plate on the bottom? On your versions, are they all the same shee? or, did the shell change at all as well? > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3021	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books

Well--the old way to do it would be to print up a list and advertise it--handle all by mail--or do it on email if she will do that--.  Too bad not in Coast Div. PCR--their quarterly meet auctions were always good for clearing estates. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: jim gerstley To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:55 PM Subject: [vintageHO] selling off models and books A friend of mine passed away last year and his wife and daughter want to sell off his collection of books and HO models. He was mainly into passenger trains and electric locomotives. He lived in Arizona. His daughter is not into ebay. Anyone have any suggestions on how to dispose of the collection? Jim Gerstley

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3022	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books

Definitely.  The late Allan Fenton and I used to do a lot of this via the Coast Div. auctions I mentioned.  We would set up lots--soda flats are good--several cheapie cars or whatever, one "gem".  We did let those who were helping us--usually our club--"cherry pick" but then we still managed to get good returns.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: selling off models and books Couple of ideas, first being a train show, second if he was a member of a club or the nmra, they have the ability to do that. DO NOT let anybody "cherry-pick" the stuff! Put it together in "lots". Someone may want a baggage and obs, you'll be stuck with the rest. Let THEM deal with parting what they don't want! One other idea is to list it here. Somebody may want some of it. Dave > > A friend of mine passed away last year and his wife and daughter want to sell off his > collection of books and HO models. He was mainly into passenger trains and electric > locomotives. He lived in Arizona. His daughter is not into ebay. Anyone have any > suggestions on how to dispose of the collection? > Jim Gerstley >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3023	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Penn Line Midget

Hey Matt, Thanks for your confirmation of my engine. There are several in the group who do not think it is a real Penn Line. That is ok, but I wish to prove it is.  I found one of the originals on eBay this week and I plan to throw in a monster bid to get it. I want the proof in hand. The listing includes the instructions and original box.... 120094462442  I hope by my revealing the listing I will not be inviting fellow group members to also bid on the listing. If so, good luck!   As for the pictures I have posted... The one with the aftermarket headlight, I detailed. It originally came missing the headlight, smokestack, and one drive wheel. I took off the bell, added a spark arrester /stack, a Southern pacific type headlight, a bell, horn, hand rails and firecracker antenna. The headlight works. I also scrounged through my parts box and found a wheel I could steal from a set of caboose trucks which matched the rest on the midget. All the steps were bent so bad I had to break them off and re-glue them on. I stripped the paint off with a stripper.. I use three types depending on the material... Parks, brake fluid or easy-off oven cleaner. The last two do not harm most plastics.  The green one I do plan to strip. The paint on them now is an epoxy primer and it is a nicely sprayed finish. I plan to scuff it and paint it black.. I will also restore the stack and steps. I also want to redo the headlight, but I want another original in hand to see how it is to look. I think I will take some liberties with this green one and now armed with the pictures ypu posted, I have some ideas. Later! Sean ----- Original Message ---- From: mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 6:41:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Newbie to the Group Sean, I looked at your photos in the files section and yes, all of the small 0-4-0 diesels you have are Penn Line Whitcomb Midgets. The one with the large headlight is just someones superdetailing of an original. From what I could see through the windows, the gears and windings on the motors look to be in good shape so you have some nice treasures there! Good luck with the restoration. Invest in some good paint remover (I use the heavy duty gel that you can get in Hardware stores or Home Depot) because it doesn't oxidize the lead in the body castings. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Matt, > Thank you for the pics. Great addition! I did not have them, nor have I ever seen them. So, in your opinion, is the green engine I have pictures in my "Some of my man projects" folder a Penn Line? It looks to be altered, but I believe it is... Do any of yours have the brass plate on the bottom? On your versions, are they all the same shee? or, did the shell change at all as well? > Sean > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3024	From: erieberk	Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader

Don and Gang, Originally, I responded to your post several days ago, only to have my reply eaten by my 'putor, and just haven't had the spare time to get back here. So, here I go again: The Crusader's run according to the timetable was 91.3 miles from Reading's Philadelphia (PA) Terminal to CNJ's Jersey City (NJ) Terminal. I can't think of another Class I railroad's name train that ran a shorter distance. I had thought of the Central of New Jersey's Blue Comet, since it ran only within the state, but in checking the route miles it turned out to be 136.3 miles from CNJ's same Jersey City Terminal to Atlantic City, NJ. Out of curiousity, I turned to the LV's Black Diamond route and that turned out to be about 445 miles between Buffalo, NY to New York, NY, via Allentown, PA, approximating the C&NW's "400" route. Yes, I'm sure many of us are familiar with the C&NW's logic for naming their "400" trains, and like you said, the Milwaukee Road's (Twin Cities) Hiawatha train was in direct competition, and while there were other Hiawatha trains (and routes) added in subsequent years (such as the North Woods Hiawatha and the Midwest Hiawatha in 1945, and the Olympian Hiawatha in 1947), it was for this 1935 Twin Cities Hiawatha which their streamlined Class A 4-4-2 Atlantic's were built. This leads me to another thread for which I'd like to thank you for reminding me. There was at least one more passenger engine model produced for a prototype name train engine which was solely dedicated to just one train. Aristo-Craft (Polk Model Craft Hobbies) produced a R-T-R MILW Class A Hiawatha engine by 1964, as pictured in David Sutton's "The Complete Book of Model Railroading," published that year. It is not included in my 1962 Aristo-Craft catalog, so either it was manufactured in 1963 (or early '64) or it was produced much earlier and discontinued. I came across a factory-painted boiler/superstructure of it at a train meet about 20 years ago, but it was too beat up to induce me to buy it, although I probably should have. It was made of heavy molded Bakelite and was a fairly faithfully reproduction of the original. I haven't seen one since, so they are probably just as equally rare as the Crusader model. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I don't know how long the Crusader's run was, but one of the very first > "classic" streamlined locos was the Milwaukee Road class A (photos in > another thread a couple weeks ago), 4 were built in 1934 for dedicated > service on the "Hiawatha", between Chicago & the twin cities via Milwaukee, > approximately 400 miles. In fact, that's how competitor C&NW came up with > their "400" trains. The Chicago-Minneapolis train was "400 miles in 400 > minutes". The "Morning Hi" also lasted from 1934 right up to Amtrak. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3025	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Sean, At the risk of driving the other list readers nuts with this disucssion I wanted to note that the major identification difference between the original Penn Line Midget Diesel and the later version is that the original had an open back to the cab and you could look in and see the motor and pulley. The later version, with the gear drive, had a completely enclosed drive. The radiator area and headlamp are also different. In addtion, the original version had no cast-in handrails on top of the engine hood, the later (Zamak gear drive) version has two ridges that represent handrails. The original had separate wire steps made from brass ladder stock, the later version had the step detail cast in. The original version also came with two small brass pins that went on the top of the hood. Not sure what they were meant to represent. And one not-so-noticeable detail is that the original version was cast in typesetters lead to give it more weight for traction. Later versions were in Zamak because it was stronger and took detail better during the casting process. The one currently on eBay appears to be an original version, but unless you could see the back of the cab and or a good side view to see if it uses a pulley or the gears, you couldn't identify it from the photo on eBay. Also, the pale blue box was used primarily for the older version but I have seen some of the newer version offered on eBay in that same box. Whether or not this is original I don't know. The geared version came out in a box with brown printing and sepia-toned photos on it. As you can tell, I have spent way too much time delving into the history of this little loco. I apologize for taking up so much of the group's email space with this level of detail. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Matt, > Thanks for your confirmation of my engine. There are several in the group who do not think it is a real Penn Line. That is ok, but I wish to prove it is. I found one of the originals on eBay this week and I plan to throw in a monster bid to get it. I want the proof in hand. The listing includes the instructions and original box.... 120094462442 I hope by my revealing the listing I will not be inviting fellow group members to also bid on the listing. If so, good luck! > > As for the pictures I have posted... The one with the aftermarket headlight, I detailed. It originally came missing the headlight, smokestack, and one drive wheel. I took off the bell, added a spark arrester /stack, a Southern pacific type headlight, a bell, horn, hand rails and firecracker antenna. The headlight works. I also scrounged through my parts box and found a wheel I could steal from a set of caboose trucks which matched the rest on the midget. All the steps were bent so bad I had to break them off and re-glue them on. I stripped the paint off with a stripper.. I use three types depending on the material... Parks, brake fluid or easy-off oven cleaner. The last two do not harm most plastics. > The green one I do plan to strip. The paint on them now is an epoxy primer and it is a nicely sprayed finish. I plan to scuff it and paint it black.. I will also restore the stack and steps. I also want to redo the headlight, but I want another original in hand to see how it is to look. I think I will take some liberties with this green one and now armed with the pictures ypu posted, I have some ideas. > Later! Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3026	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > Sean, > > At the risk of driving the other list readers nuts with this > disucssion I wanted to note that the major identification difference > between the original Penn Line Midget Diesel and the later version is > that the original had an open back to the cab and you could look in > and see the motor and pulley. The later version, with the gear drive, > had a completely enclosed drive. The radiator area and headlamp are > also different. > > In addtion, the original version had no cast-in handrails on top of > the engine hood, the later (Zamak gear drive) version has two ridges > that represent handrails. The original had separate wire steps made > from brass ladder stock, the later version had the step detail cast > in. The original version also came with two small brass pins that went > on the top of the hood. Not sure what they were meant to represent. > > And one not-so-noticeable detail is that the original version was cast > in typesetters lead to give it more weight for traction. Later > versions were in Zamak because it was stronger and took detail better > during the casting process. > > The one currently on eBay appears to be an original version, but > unless you could see the back of the cab and or a good side view to > see if it uses a pulley or the gears, you couldn't identify it from > the photo on eBay. > A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt like an outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney Dockside. Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> > Also, the pale blue box was used primarily for the older version but I > have seen some of the newer version offered on eBay in that same box. > Whether or not this is original I don't know. The geared version came > out in a box with brown printing and sepia-toned photos on it. > > As you can tell, I have spent way too much time delving into the > history of this little loco. > > I apologize for taking up so much of the group's email space with this > level of detail. > > Matt That's what this group is about. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3027	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Hello Matt, According to the seller, this one is like the green one I have. I sent him pictures and asked him. It has a brass plate on the bottom for the chassis... As for the open back of the cab. The motor is positioned such that the magnet faces the opening and the pullies are behind the grill. The later version has the gears in the rear and the magnet just behind the grill. When this one comes, after I bid. I (provided I win the bid) I plan to scan a copy of the instructions and post them. The open back of the cab can be somewhat clearly seen from the right hand picture in the instructions. I saved the picture posted on the listing and blew it up. I am sure it is what i think it is... I can not wait to get it (um... I mean bid on it...)   Ps... I have enjoyed your additions...   Thanks, sean ----- Original Message ---- From: mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 3:47:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget Sean, At the risk of driving the other list readers nuts with this disucssion I wanted to note that the major identification difference between the original Penn Line Midget Diesel and the later version is that the original had an open back to the cab and you could look in and see the motor and pulley. The later version, with the gear drive, had a completely enclosed drive. The radiator area and headlamp are also different. In addtion, the original version had no cast-in handrails on top of the engine hood, the later (Zamak gear drive) version has two ridges that represent handrails. The original had separate wire steps made from brass ladder stock, the later version had the step detail cast in. The original version also came with two small brass pins that went on the top of the hood. Not sure what they were meant to represent. And one not-so-noticeable detail is that the original version was cast in typesetters lead to give it more weight for traction. Later versions were in Zamak because it was stronger and took detail better during the casting process. The one currently on eBay appears to be an original version, but unless you could see the back of the cab and or a good side view to see if it uses a pulley or the gears, you couldn't identify it from the photo on eBay. Also, the pale blue box was used primarily for the older version but I have seen some of the newer version offered on eBay in that same box. Whether or not this is original I don't know. The geared version came out in a box with brown printing and sepia-toned photos on it. As you can tell, I have spent way too much time delving into the history of this little loco. I apologize for taking up so much of the group's email space with this level of detail. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey Matt, > Thanks for your confirmation of my engine. There are several in the group who do not think it is a real Penn Line. That is ok, but I wish to prove it is. I found one of the originals on eBay this week and I plan to throw in a monster bid to get it. I want the proof in hand. The listing includes the instructions and original box.... 120094462442 I hope by my revealing the listing I will not be inviting fellow group members to also bid on the listing. If so, good luck! > > As for the pictures I have posted... The one with the aftermarket headlight, I detailed. It originally came missing the headlight, smokestack, and one drive wheel. I took off the bell, added a spark arrester /stack, a Southern pacific type headlight, a bell, horn, hand rails and firecracker antenna. The headlight works. I also scrounged through my parts box and found a wheel I could steal from a set of caboose trucks which matched the rest on the midget. All the steps were bent so bad I had to break them off and re-glue them on. I stripped the paint off with a stripper.. I use three types depending on the material... Parks, brake fluid or easy-off oven cleaner. The last two do not harm most plastics. > The green one I do plan to strip. The paint on them now is an epoxy primer and it is a nicely sprayed finish. I plan to scuff it and paint it black.. I will also restore the stack and steps. I also want to redo the headlight, but I want another original in hand to see how it is to look. I think I will take some liberties with this green one and now armed with the pictures ypu posted, I have some ideas. > Later! Sean > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3028	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

I often wondered why they never did an end of the cab? ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@ netscape. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > Sean, > > At the risk of driving the other list readers nuts with this > disucssion I wanted to note that the major identification difference > between the original Penn Line Midget Diesel and the later version is > that the original had an open back to the cab and you could look in > and see the motor and pulley. The later version, with the gear drive, > had a completely enclosed drive. The radiator area and headlamp are > also different. > > In addtion, the original version had no cast-in handrails on top of > the engine hood, the later (Zamak gear drive) version has two ridges > that represent handrails. The original had separate wire steps made > from brass ladder stock, the later version had the step detail cast > in. The original version also came with two small brass pins that went > on the top of the hood. Not sure what they were meant to represent. > > And one not-so-noticeable detail is that the original version was cast > in typesetters lead to give it more weight for traction. Later > versions were in Zamak because it was stronger and took detail better > during the casting process. > > The one currently on eBay appears to be an original version, but > unless you could see the back of the cab and or a good side view to > see if it uses a pulley or the gears, you couldn't identify it from > the photo on eBay. > A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt like an outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney Dockside. Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> > Also, the pale blue box was used primarily for the older version but I > have seen some of the newer version offered on eBay in that same box. > Whether or not this is original I don't know. The geared version came > out in a box with brown printing and sepia-toned photos on it. > > As you can tell, I have spent way too much time delving into the > history of this little loco. > > I apologize for taking up so much of the group's email space with this > level of detail. > > Matt That's what this group is about. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3029	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt like an outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney Dockside. Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> ---- Matt replied: Don, I don't have a Varney Docksider even though I have looked at them and seen ads for them for years. I even saw one at a train show in Atlanta yesterday but it didn't have a motor and was in bad shape. I have the Kemtron TT version of the Docksider but not the "real thing!" I suspect this group will inspire me to keep buying despite my already overcrowded display shelves.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3030	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Sean, It sounds like this is an early version for sure. Good luck on getting it! And thanks for the kind words, despite having grown up with it, I really know very little about most vintage HO since I owned very little of it. In the 1950s and 60s my layout was on a 3 x 5 sheet of plywood with 15" radius curves and my only two locos were the Whitcomb diesel and a AHC (H.O. Train Co.) 4-4-2. These were the C&NW die cast locos from "The New One" out of Tokyo, Japan. This company's line was later brought in by Aristo Craft. The manufacturer became Tenshodo of PFM fame. I had seven freight cars -- six Athearn built from kits with the old trucks that had to have the springs inserted after you put the sideframes on the bolters (anyone else remember those?) and one Silver Streak boxcar I built with Ambroid and Revell cement (and lots of it!.) It looked terrible since my modeling skills were quite limited at the time. Ah, such were the days. Yesterday I bought 22 old Model railroaders from the 50s and early 60s to round out my collection. I think I enjoy the ads as much as the articles any more. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello Matt, > According to the seller, this one is like the green one I have. I sent him pictures and asked him. It has a brass plate on the bottom for the chassis... As for the open back of the cab. The motor is positioned such that the magnet faces the opening and the pullies are behind the grill. The later version has the gears in the rear and the magnet just behind the grill. When this one comes, after I bid. I (provided I win the bid) I plan to scan a copy of the instructions and post them. The open back of the cab can be somewhat clearly seen from the right hand picture in the instructions. I saved the picture posted on the listing and blew it up. I am sure it is what i think it is... I can not wait to get it (um... I mean bid on it...) > > Ps... I have enjoyed your additions... > > Thanks, sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3031	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Glenn, Your question made me go in and look at mine and from what I can see, there is so little clearance between the motor magnets and the cab that it might not have been possible to get the clearance. Also, another possiblity is that they were concerned over motor overheating (but that doesn't seem to be very real. Also, every other locomotive in their line has an open back cab, possibly due to how the casting was done and this may have been a factor. The printer's lead on this one is very soft and had to be poured in a gravity mold instead of a pressurized injection mold like Zamak uses. About 20 years ago I toured the Bowser plant in Pennsylvania and they still had some of the old gravity molds for the steam loco boilers and they gave me a demo on how they used them. Until Glenn brought up this question I hadn't thought about that aspect of it, but all of the steam loco boilers have open backed cabs. We may never know the answer but it is a great question to ponder. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I often wondered why they never did an end of the cab?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3032	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: > > A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt like an > outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney > Dockside. > > Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my > very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> > > ---- Matt replied: > > Don, I don't have a Varney Docksider even though I have looked at them > and seen ads for them for years. I even saw one at a train show in > Atlanta yesterday but it didn't have a motor and was in bad shape. I > have the Kemtron TT version of the Docksider but not the "real thing!" > I suspect this group will inspire me to keep buying despite my already > overcrowded display shelves. Oops. Now you did a "no no". They're not supposed to be on the shelves, they're supposed to be RUNNING on the layout. <G>. (although truth be told, I'm still working on the Dockside, still fiddling with gear adjustment, and my HObbyline H-10-44 still needs a drive belt.) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3033	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Well Don, I ask that you do not bid on the one i am looking at. I really really want it... I must be sick or something... I never used to be this way...     Oh, wait...   Maybe I have.. Sean ----- Original Message ---- From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:15:16 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@ netscape. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> > wrote: > > A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt like an > outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney > Dockside. > > Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my > very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> > > ---- Matt replied: > > Don, I don't have a Varney Docksider even though I have looked at them > and seen ads for them for years. I even saw one at a train show in > Atlanta yesterday but it didn't have a motor and was in bad shape. I > have the Kemtron TT version of the Docksider but not the "real thing!" > I suspect this group will inspire me to keep buying despite my already > overcrowded display shelves. Oops. Now you did a "no no". They're not supposed to be on the shelves, they're supposed to be RUNNING on the layout. <G>. (although truth be told, I'm still working on the Dockside, still fiddling with gear adjustment, and my HObbyline H-10-44 still needs a drive belt.) Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3034	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Hey Guys, I think I have 4 of varying degrees of detail... I even have one someone made into an 0-6-0. They did a very noce job and all the parts are Varney. So good infact, I had to find out from Ken (fellow member and winner of this months photo contest) that is was a modification and not original. heck, two years ago, I owned one, but did not know who made it and that it was called a "lil Joe". A year before that, I did not own one. Sean ----- Original Message ---- From: mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:44:03 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt like an outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney Dockside. Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> ---- Matt replied: Don, I don't have a Varney Docksider even though I have looked at them and seen ads for them for years. I even saw one at a train show in Atlanta yesterday but it didn't have a motor and was in bad shape. I have the Kemtron TT version of the Docksider but not the "real thing!" I suspect this group will inspire me to keep buying despite my already overcrowded display shelves. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3035	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Matt,   Is there an early version with the pullies in the rear?   Sean ----- Original Message ---- From: mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:51:00 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget Sean, It sounds like this is an early version for sure. Good luck on getting it! And thanks for the kind words, despite having grown up with it, I really know very little about most vintage HO since I owned very little of it. In the 1950s and 60s my layout was on a 3 x 5 sheet of plywood with 15" radius curves and my only two locos were the Whitcomb diesel and a AHC (H.O. Train Co.) 4-4-2. These were the C&NW die cast locos from "The New One" out of Tokyo, Japan. This company's line was later brought in by Aristo Craft. The manufacturer became Tenshodo of PFM fame. I had seven freight cars -- six Athearn built from kits with the old trucks that had to have the springs inserted after you put the sideframes on the bolters (anyone else remember those?) and one Silver Streak boxcar I built with Ambroid and Revell cement (and lots of it!.) It looked terrible since my modeling skills were quite limited at the time. Ah, such were the days. Yesterday I bought 22 old Model railroaders from the 50s and early 60s to round out my collection. I think I enjoy the ads as much as the articles any more. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Matt, > According to the seller, this one is like the green one I have. I sent him pictures and asked him. It has a brass plate on the bottom for the chassis... As for the open back of the cab. The motor is positioned such that the magnet faces the opening and the pullies are behind the grill. The later version has the gears in the rear and the magnet just behind the grill. When this one comes, after I bid. I (provided I win the bid) I plan to scan a copy of the instructions and post them. The open back of the cab can be somewhat clearly seen from the right hand picture in the instructions. I saved the picture posted on the listing and blew it up. I am sure it is what i think it is... I can not wait to get it (um... I mean bid on it...) > > Ps... I have enjoyed your additions... > > Thanks, sean > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3036	From: oljoeoh	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Don.... I was looking for a Varney docksider until I went to a show and found a new in box Rivarossi docksider with complete valve gear and instructions for only $15. I don't know that I would run it hard but it does run well with a satisfying hum. I believe these were first offered around 1960 and were inexpensive, seems like they might have been about $10. Later a stripped down version was produced minus most of the valve gear. They appear often on ebay and make good parts mules. The one with the valve gear also shows up often. Ahm also offered the same models in their Ahm packaging beginning later in the 1960's. The drivers on the Rivarossi and Ahm are larger and, to my eye, look much more like what was on the #97 and #98 prototypes. In any case I really like the RIvarossi. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:44 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > wrote: > > > > A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt like an > > outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney > > Dockside. > > > > Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my > > very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> > > > > ---- Matt replied: > > > > Don, I don't have a Varney Docksider even though I have looked at them > > and seen ads for them for years. I even saw one at a train show in > > Atlanta yesterday but it didn't have a motor and was in bad shape. I > > have the Kemtron TT version of the Docksider but not the "real thing!" > > I suspect this group will inspire me to keep buying despite my already > > overcrowded display shelves. > > Oops. Now you did a "no no". They're not supposed to be on the shelves, > they're supposed to be RUNNING on the layout. <G>. > (although truth be told, I'm still working on the Dockside, still fiddling > with gear adjustment, and my HObbyline H-10-44 still needs a drive belt.) > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3037	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Don't panic.  I couldn;'t bid on a used box of Kleenex right now.  Next month though.........   Seriously, money is going right now for new wheelsets and couplers to get everything up and running smoothly.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget Well Don, I ask that you do not bid on the one i am looking at. I really really want it... I must be sick or something... I never used to be this way...     Oh, wait...   Maybe I have.. Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3038	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Well, I did get one. (in fact tere's an album of it on the group site in photos.) Don't need another Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > Don.... I was looking for a Varney docksider until > I went to a show and found a new in box Rivarossi > docksider with complete valve gear and instructions > for only $15. > > I don't know that I would run it hard but it does > run well with a satisfying hum. I believe these > were first offered around 1960 and were inexpensive, > seems like they might have been about $10. Later > a stripped down version was produced minus most of > the valve gear. They appear often on ebay and make > good parts mules. The one with the valve gear also > shows up often. Ahm also offered the same models > in their Ahm packaging beginning later in the 1960's. > > The drivers on the Rivarossi and Ahm are larger and, > to my eye, look much more like what was on the #97 and #98 > prototypes. In any case I really like the RIvarossi. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:44 AM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget >> >> >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> >> > wrote: >> > >> > A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt > like an >> > outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney >> > Dockside. >> > >> > Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my >> > very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> >> > >> > ---- Matt replied: >> > >> > Don, I don't have a Varney Docksider even though I have looked at them >> > and seen ads for them for years. I even saw one at a train show in >> > Atlanta yesterday but it didn't have a motor and was in bad shape. I >> > have the Kemtron TT version of the Docksider but not the "real thing!" >> > I suspect this group will inspire me to keep buying despite my already >> > overcrowded display shelves. >> >> Oops. Now you did a "no no". They're not supposed to be on the > shelves, >> they're supposed to be RUNNING on the layout. <G>. >> (although truth be told, I'm still working on the Dockside, still > fiddling >> with gear adjustment, and my HObbyline H-10-44 still needs a drive > belt.) >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3039	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Well Don, you got me on that one. I don't have a layout right now (not that I have had one before either.) I am one of those guys that got calle back up in the military right after 9/11 and I haven't been on active duty and deployed a lot of the time since then. Worse yet, I had just moved before all this happend so when I am home, all I do is try to get all my old stuff back in running condition and dig through old boxes. I do have plans for a true "vintage layout" using only kits and equipment manufactured prior to 1964. We'll see if I can actually get around to doing that. I have been slowly collecting with that end in mind. Anyone else have a vintage layout? Don? Other? I would love to see some photos for inspiration. And Don, for drive belts I used the neoprene black plumbing seals that are sold in Home Depot and other places. I think you know what I mean -- they look like black rubber bands but are round -- they make great belts and are cheap. Matt > > Oops. Now you did a "no no". They're not supposed to be on the shelves, they're supposed to be RUNNING on the layout. <G>. > (although truth be told, I'm still working on the Dockside, still fiddling with gear adjustment, and my HObbyline H-10-44 still needs a drive belt.) > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3040	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Sean, I don't know. The one I have has the pulleys in the front, under the motor hood. However, I did see one on eBay that looked like it had them in the rear, where the gears are on the updated version. I didn't get that one (I was travelling at the time and couldn't get to a computer in time to bid) so I don't know. I am only aware of the two versions but the switcher was in production for nearly 15 years and if you look at how many drive systems Athearn went through in a comparable time they might well have had some motor/pulley/gear variations. If you think about it, the power unit for the Whitcomb is just a pretty standard four-wheel power truck like many manufacturers (like Lindsay or Kemtron) used for powering early diesel locos. You could easily flip it around as needed. As always, when you go back and look at these models you realize that there is a lot we don't know about them. Or should I say that I don't know -- someone knows or did know. I just hope it doesn't get lost in the mists of time. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Matt, > > Is there an early version with the pullies in the rear? > > Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3041	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

That brings up a question I keep asking, with no results.  Most of the smaller  (S, HO, TT, and N) scale Docksides have 48" drivers. All the O Scale Docksides I have seen (International Models, 1940's; US Hobbies, 1960's; and a Hi-Rail one in O Tinplate, 1980's) have much smaller (40" ) drivers.  Makes me wonder if the later manufacturers used the earlier model as a pattern.  In the cases of both the IMP and USH locos, the "tender" versions had the correct size drivers. The only plan I have seen was in MR way back--had " 4' 0" " drivers shown. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: oljoeoh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget Don.... I was looking for a Varney docksider until I went to a show and found a new in box Rivarossi docksider with complete valve gear and instructions for only $15. I don't know that I would run it hard but it does run well with a satisfying hum. I believe these were first offered around 1960 and were inexpensive, seems like they might have been about $10. Later a stripped down version was produced minus most of the valve gear. They appear often on ebay and make good parts mules. The one with the valve gear also shows up often. Ahm also offered the same models in their Ahm packaging beginning later in the 1960's. The drivers on the Rivarossi and Ahm are larger and, to my eye, look much more like what was on the #97 and #98 prototypes. In any case I really like the RIvarossi. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:44 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ > > > wrote: > > > > A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt like an > > outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney > > Dockside. > > > > Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my > > very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> > > > > ---- Matt replied: > > > > Don, I don't have a Varney Docksider even though I have looked at them > > and seen ads for them for years. I even saw one at a train show in > > Atlanta yesterday but it didn't have a motor and was in bad shape. I > > have the Kemtron TT version of the Docksider but not the "real thing!" > > I suspect this group will inspire me to keep buying despite my already > > overcrowded display shelves. > > Oops. Now you did a "no no". They're not supposed to be on the shelves, > they're supposed to be RUNNING on the layout. <G>. > (although truth be told, I'm still working on the Dockside, still fiddling > with gear adjustment, and my HObbyline H-10-44 still needs a drive belt.) > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3042	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 1:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > Well Don, you got me on that one. I don't have a layout right now (not > that I have had one before either.) I am one of those guys that got > calle back up in the military right after 9/11 and I haven't been on > active duty and deployed a lot of the time since then. Worse yet, I > had just moved before all this happend so when I am home, all I do is > try to get all my old stuff back in running condition and dig through > old boxes. > > I do have plans for a true "vintage layout" using only kits and > equipment manufactured prior to 1964. We'll see if I can actually get > around to doing that. I have been slowly collecting with that end in mind. > > Anyone else have a vintage layout? Don? Other? I would love to see > some photos for inspiration. > > And Don, for drive belts I used the neoprene black plumbing seals that > are sold in Home Depot and other places. I think you know what I mean > -- they look like black rubber bands but are round -- they make great > belts and are cheap. > > Matt I have a selection of O rings at work, but couldn't come up with the right size. The ones I did have also seemed too stiff. I'm still looking though. At least I got couplers on it now. I didn't think to try neoprene, it might be softer, do we have any rubber engineers in the crowd? All the O-rings I have are either buna or viton, and they are too hard. As far as the layout, mine's an eclectic mix of old and new. I guess you could say it's vintage as it's all code 100, with Atlas turnouts, most of the track is Atlas code 100 flex, but there is a little bit of Tru-Scale "Ready-track" and in the yard a couple lengths of Atlas on fibre ties. The next train out of the yard may be headed by an Athearn "blue box" F-7, it may be an original Plastic-Frame GP-9 shell on a 1958 Hobbytown, or it may be a P-2000 C-liner. 1940's Mantuas lock couplers with the latest from Accurail or Walthers. In one place there's a new Classic Metal Works Freuhof trailer hooked up to a Model Hobbies Dodge tractor in plaster of paris. Scenery is plaster over screen, or hard shell, benchwork is 1/2" plywood on a frame of 1x4's, none of this flimsy "L-girder" or that newfangled foam for me. Power is provided by an MRC "Golden Trottle Pack" in the yard, and an MRC "Dual Loco Pack" for the mainline cabs, although I am planning to build a couple transistor throttle (the old ones with venerable 2N3055's as the output) because the MRC's really can't handle the newer locomotives, they don't draw ENOUGH current for rheostat control. DCC shall never darken my door! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3043	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

I had a Riv Docksider in here, and some other kluge plastic one. The kluge had no gears left. I stripped out the cab handrails and end rails and put them on the Riv, got it tweaked, and gave it back to my Brother. They ran okay, but are plastic, and somewhat more fragile (what holds up on a die-cast Varney won't on a Riv). That said, I have two other Rivarossi's here, in work, and I am not highly impressed. One is a B&O square-tender 0-6-0, plastic frame is cracked in several places, one driver cracked, glued the frame, epoxied the driver after straigtening the hole, back onto the axle. Just test-ran it. I am not a big fan of those can't-open-to-clean-and-service motors. Light use (like the prototype) probably just fine. If I didn't have two die-cast Varney's here, I'd consider it. The other Riv is a 2-8-0 I bought new in the early 60's. We even bought the brass driveshaft kit for it (tender drive). The tender frame had, well, expanded a bit. Over 1/8" in length, shearing the end beam off the tender. I've gone through the loco, trying to determine if I really want to build a new gearbox for the tender or (shudder) buy a nwsl gearbox for #2 axle and a motor, and do it all in the loco. Over the decades, I have personally (read personally) not had much success with Rivarossi equipment, especially the older ones with the huge flanges that don't like less than code 100 rail. The Riv Docksider ran by far the best of all the other Rivarossi units here. Dave > > That brings up a question I keep asking, with no results. Most of the smaller (S, HO, TT, and N) scale Docksides have 48" drivers. All the O Scale Docksides I have seen (International Models, 1940's; US Hobbies, 1960's; and a Hi-Rail one in O Tinplate, 1980's) have much smaller (40" ) drivers. Makes me wonder if the later manufacturers used the earlier model as a pattern. In the cases of both the IMP and USH locos, the "tender" versions had the correct size drivers. The only plan I have seen was in MR way back--had " 4' 0" " drivers shown. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: oljoeoh > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:26 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > > > Don.... I was looking for a Varney docksider until > I went to a show and found a new in box Rivarossi > docksider with complete valve gear and instructions > for only $15. > > I don't know that I would run it hard but it does > run well with a satisfying hum. I believe these > were first offered around 1960 and were inexpensive, > seems like they might have been about $10. Later > a stripped down version was produced minus most of > the valve gear. They appear often on ebay and make > good parts mules. The one with the valve gear also > shows up often. Ahm also offered the same models > in their Ahm packaging beginning later in the 1960's. > > The drivers on the Rivarossi and Ahm are larger and, > to my eye, look much more like what was on the #97 and #98 > prototypes. In any case I really like the RIvarossi. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:44 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt > like an > > > outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney > > > Dockside. > > > > > > Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my > > > very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> > > > > > > ---- Matt replied: > > > > > > Don, I don't have a Varney Docksider even though I have looked at them > > > and seen ads for them for years. I even saw one at a train show in > > > Atlanta yesterday but it didn't have a motor and was in bad shape. I > > > have the Kemtron TT version of the Docksider but not the "real thing!" > > > I suspect this group will inspire me to keep buying despite my already > > > overcrowded display shelves. > > > > Oops. Now you did a "no no". They're not supposed to be on the > shelves, > > they're supposed to be RUNNING on the layout. <G>. > > (although truth be told, I'm still working on the Dockside, still > fiddling > > with gear adjustment, and my HObbyline H-10-44 still needs a drive > belt.) > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3044	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

It was (and maybe still is) common for models to have slightly smaller than scale drivers, to allow for the larger than scale flanges.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Joesten To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget That brings up a question I keep asking, with no results.  Most of the smaller  (S, HO, TT, and N) scale Docksides have 48" drivers. All the O Scale Docksides I have seen (International Models, 1940's; US Hobbies, 1960's; and a Hi-Rail one in O Tinplate, 1980's) have much smaller (40" ) drivers.  Makes me wonder if the later manufacturers used the earlier model as a pattern.  In the cases of both the IMP and USH locos, the "tender" versions had the correct size drivers. The only plan I have seen was in MR way back--had " 4' 0" " drivers shown. gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3045	From: oljoeoh	Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

I am in possession of what I think is the Baldwin spec sheet for the B&O #97. I states that the drivers used are, in fact, 48". I used a digital caliper and find that the Rivarossi drivers measure .588" rim to rim. That seems to translate to 4.7 ft if my crude math is right (when .125 is 1 ft.). If anyone is interested I will dig up the pic and spec sheet for #97. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > That brings up a question I keep asking, with no results. Most of the smaller (S, HO, TT, and N) scale Docksides have 48" drivers. All the O Scale Docksides I have seen (International Models, 1940's; US Hobbies, 1960's; and a Hi-Rail one in O Tinplate, 1980's) have much smaller (40" ) drivers. Makes me wonder if the later manufacturers used the earlier model as a pattern. In the cases of both the IMP and USH locos, the "tender" versions had the correct size drivers. The only plan I have seen was in MR way back--had " 4' 0" " drivers shown. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: oljoeoh > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:26 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > > > Don.... I was looking for a Varney docksider until > I went to a show and found a new in box Rivarossi > docksider with complete valve gear and instructions > for only $15. > > I don't know that I would run it hard but it does > run well with a satisfying hum. I believe these > were first offered around 1960 and were inexpensive, > seems like they might have been about $10. Later > a stripped down version was produced minus most of > the valve gear. They appear often on ebay and make > good parts mules. The one with the valve gear also > shows up often. Ahm also offered the same models > in their Ahm packaging beginning later in the 1960's. > > The drivers on the Rivarossi and Ahm are larger and, > to my eye, look much more like what was on the #97 and #98 > prototypes. In any case I really like the RIvarossi. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:44 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Midget > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > A month or so ago, (before you joined) I mentioned that I felt > like an > > > outsider in my own group, until I FINALLY got my very own Varney > > > Dockside. > > > > > > Now it looks like I'm on the outside looking in again until I get my > > > very own Penn Line Whitcomb! <G> > > > > > > ---- Matt replied: > > > > > > Don, I don't have a Varney Docksider even though I have looked at them > > > and seen ads for them for years. I even saw one at a train show in > > > Atlanta yesterday but it didn't have a motor and was in bad shape. I > > > have the Kemtron TT version of the Docksider but not the "real thing!" > > > I suspect this group will inspire me to keep buying despite my already > > > overcrowded display shelves. > > > > Oops. Now you did a "no no". They're not supposed to be on the > shelves, > > they're supposed to be RUNNING on the layout. <G>. > > (although truth be told, I'm still working on the Dockside, still > fiddling > > with gear adjustment, and my HObbyline H-10-44 still needs a drive > belt.) > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3046	From: jay matz	Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Joe .039 = 1mm / 3.5 mm =.1365 / 48in = .546 Jay oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3047	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Don, Since HO is 3.5mm to the foot and not 1/8", the actual diamter for the drivers is 4.26 ft or approximately 51". I think Rivarossi used their existing switcher drivers from their other locos. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> wrote: > > I am in possession of what I think is the Baldwin spec > sheet for the B&O #97. I states that the drivers > used are, in fact, 48". I used a digital caliper > and find that the Rivarossi drivers measure .588" rim to rim. > That seems to translate to 4.7 ft if my crude math > is right (when .125 is 1 ft.). > > If anyone is interested I will dig up the pic and > spec sheet for #97. > Joe O'Loughlin >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3048	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Rivarossi

Well, I bit the bullet. Decided this old 2-8-0 was going to get resurrected. I do believe this counts, as I bought it new in about '63 or '64. Nobody seems to have heard of it, and I can't find it on the AHM/Rivarossi listings. Looks Italian. Oval, hooded front cab windows (won't be shortly), cylinders a little strangely shaped. This had the motor and reduction gears in the tender, with the gearcase cast as part of the tender floor.......and Zamac Rot got it. Called nwsl today, got an idler gearbox coming that will keep withing 20 or 30 thou the worm shaft height for the driveshaft, and a flat can to mount on the new brass tender floor I am making. Dan is sending me a new pilot beam with steps to section in, so probably a week or so it will live again. Always was a good road switcher when I had it in the 60's. This is going to HAVE to be quieter. The old foam rubber I had packed in the tender shell to try to quiet down the motor and gears 40 years ago was a reminder.........and boy, does that stuff go bad in 40 years! I toyed with the idea of a motor in the loco, but the boiler is a solid lead weight inside, and the tractive effort back then was excellent, so I didn't want to lose any of that. Keep ya posted. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3049	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Marklin's Love Reborn...

Dear Group,   If you saw Model Railroader's recent on-line posting, you saw the news of the release of a "Z" scale NYC "Commodore Vanderbilt" (4-6-4) due out in September 2007. Not interested? Let's look back 72 and 71 years to Marklin's releasing the NYC "Commodore Vanderbilt" in 0 (Zero) and 1 (One) scales, the later possibly being totally hand-crafted at Marklin.   The source of the info I discovered is Allen Levy's 1974 publication: A Century of Model Trains, page 91. Coincidence? Our German manufacturer seems to not have forgotten its old pre-war "love". An interesting piece of vintage model railroading history.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3050	From: oljoeoh	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

closer then I thought. Didn't put much thinking in it, just wanted to get to the idea. Joe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: > > Joe > .039 = 1mm / 3.5 mm =.1365 / 48in = .546 > Jay > > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3051	From: oljoeoh	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget

Interesting connection to other Rivarossi locos. I thought about that but I know the 0-4-0 slopeback came after the docksider. The only one that seemed likely was the ugly euro style 2-8-0. The Harbor Belt came later also. Joe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Don, > > Since HO is 3.5mm to the foot and not 1/8", the actual diamter for > the drivers is 4.26 ft or approximately 51". I think Rivarossi used > their existing switcher drivers from their other locos. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@> wrote: > > > > I am in possession of what I think is the Baldwin spec > > sheet for the B&O #97. I states that the drivers > > used are, in fact, 48". I used a digital caliper > > and find that the Rivarossi drivers measure .588" rim to rim. > > That seems to translate to 4.7 ft if my crude math > > is right (when .125 is 1 ft.). > > > > If anyone is interested I will dig up the pic and > > spec sheet for #97. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3052	From: Bill Daley	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi

curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Decided this old 2-8-0 was going to get resurrected. .....The old foam rubber I had packed in the tender shell to try to quiet down the motor and gears 40 years ago was a reminder.... .....and boy, does that stuff go bad in 40 years! Dave Dave, How about a cut-down old sock  loosely filled with fiberglass insulation to cut down on noise and vibration?  retired grouch  Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3053	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi

I suggest a 10# sledge.... Sean Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> wrote: curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Decided this old 2-8-0 was going to get resurrected. .....The old foam rubber I had packed in the tender shell to try to quiet down the motor and gears 40 years ago was a reminder.... .....and boy, does that stuff go bad in 40 years! Dave Dave, How about a cut-down old sock  loosely filled with fiberglass insulation to cut down on noise and vibration?  retired grouch  Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3054	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi

Sean- Several things enter into this. One, I wanted to resurrect it because I can. Skills I have gained and honed in the 37 years since I quit half- zero, working in restored automobiles, "0" sacle and #1 gauge, just to see. I have proven to myself that almost every broken, inoperative piece of whatever I've jumped on, has come out the other end running good, very good, or even perfect. Sources on the three or 4 forums have been invaluable for odd parts. Two- The more of this plastic stuff I get running and back to my brother, the more of the die-cast stuff I keep. (we're almost done.....one Athearn shell, two couplers, and some repair pilot steps for a steamer). Three- When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Lots of odd events, health and work-wise, and if I didn't have this stuff to work on evenings I would have gone nuts. This Riv 2-8-0 probably has a value of about $4.50. I will probably put 10 times that into it in parts. But, it will go out of here running better and quieter than new. The guy at nwsl was surprised when I specified a motor shaft size....and was more surprised when I told him we had the Menzies Machine Shop u-joint and driveshaft kit installed that I got for it about 1970. Dave > > I suggest a 10# sledge.... > Sean > > Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> wrote: > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Decided this old 2-8-0 was going to get resurrected. > .....The old foam rubber I had packed in the tender shell to try to quiet > down the motor and gears 40 years ago was a reminder.........and > boy, does that stuff go bad in 40 years! > > > Dave > > Dave, > How about a cut-down old sock loosely filled with fiberglass insulation to cut down on noise and vibration? > retired grouch > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss an email again! > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3055	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi

Attachments : I was just kidding Dave,   For me, if it is not diecast or brass, I do not like to work on it... Iget them running, if they can and I get rid of them as soon as I can... They make some nice tenders though...   However I plan to build this New Haven Nagatuck using a Poacher 4-4-0 and possibly a Roundhouse old tyme passenger car... The wheel to wheel measurements are as close as I could hope for on the plastic engine... then again, I might just use brass and the old diecast passenger car I have too...   Later.. Sean       curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Sean- Several things enter into this. One, I wanted to resurrect it because I can. Skills I have gained and honed in the 37 years since I quit half- zero, working in restored automobiles, "0" sacle and #1 gauge, just to see. I have proven to myself that almost every broken, inoperative piece of whatever I've jumped on, has come out the other end running good, very good, or even perfect. Sources on the three or 4 forums have been invaluable for odd parts. Two- The more of this plastic stuff I get running and back to my brother, the more of the die-cast stuff I keep. (we're almost done.....one Athearn shell, two couplers, and some repair pilot steps for a steamer). Three- When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Lots of odd events, health and work-wise, and if I didn't have this stuff to work on evenings I would have gone nuts. This Riv 2-8-0 probably has a value of about $4.50. I will probably put 10 times that into it in parts. But, it will go out of here running better and quieter than new. The guy at nwsl was surprised when I specified a motor shaft size....and was more surprised when I told him we had the Menzies Machine Shop u-joint and driveshaft kit installed that I got for it about 1970. Dave > > I suggest a 10# sledge.... > Sean > > Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@ ...> wrote: > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: Decided this old 2-8-0 was going to get resurrected. > .....The old foam rubber I had packed in the tender shell to try to quiet > down the motor and gears 40 years ago was a reminder.... .....and > boy, does that stuff go bad in 40 years! > > > Dave > > Dave, > How about a cut-down old sock loosely filled with fiberglass insulation to cut down on noise and vibration? > retired grouch > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Never miss an email again! > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3056	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi

No!   No! No! ......... Well sorta........ You just can't build that beauty as it is shown............... NOT without curving stairs replacing the straight steps in the front !!!! That just looks so very, very nice on similar inspection engines...... You later regret it, if you missed the opportunity to do it.......... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Mar 13, 2007, at 12:17 PM, sean naylor wrote: I was just kidding Dave,   For me, if it is not diecast or brass, I do not like to work on it... Iget them running, if they can and I get rid of them as soon as I can... They make some nice tenders though...   However I plan to build this New Haven Nagatuck using a Poacher 4-4-0 and possibly a Roundhouse old tyme passenger car... The wheel to wheel measurements are as close as I could hope for on the plastic engine... then again, I might just use brass and the old diecast passenger car I have too...   Later.. Sean       curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Sean- Several things enter into this. One, I wanted ! to resurrect it because I can. Skills I have gained and honed in the 37 years since I quit half- zero, working in restored automobiles, "0" sacle and #1 gauge, just to see. I have proven to myself that almost every broken, inoperative piece of whatever I've jumped on, has come out the other end running good, very good, or even perfect. Sources on the three or 4 forums have been invaluable for odd parts.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3057	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi

Curving stairs?      ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:57:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Rivarossi No!   No! No! ......... Well sorta....... . You just can't build that beauty as it is shown....... ........ NOT without curving stairs replacing the straight steps in the front !!!! That just looks so very, very nice on similar inspection engines..... . You later regret it, if you missed the opportunity to do it.......... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Mar 13, 2007, at 12:17 PM, sean naylor wrote: I was just kidding Dave,   For me, if it is not diecast or brass, I do not like to work on it... Iget them running, if they can and I get rid of them as soon as I can... They make some nice tenders though...   However I plan to build this New Haven Nagatuck using a Poacher 4-4-0 and possibly a Roundhouse old tyme passenger car... The wheel to wheel measurements are as close as I could hope for on the plastic engine... then again, I might just use brass and the old diecast passenger car I have too...   Later.. Sean       curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Sean- Several things enter into this. One, I wanted ! to resurrect it because I can. Skills I have gained and honed in the 37 years since I quit half- zero, working in restored automobiles, "0" sacle and #1 gauge, just to see. I have proven to myself that almost every broken, inoperative piece of whatever I've jumped on, has come out the other end running good, very good, or even perfect. Sources on the three or 4 forums have been invaluable for odd parts. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3058	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi

Mike's been watching too many reruns of "Back To The Future II"   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Rivarossi Curving stairs?      ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:57:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Rivarossi No!   No! No! ......... Well sorta....... . You just can't build that beauty as it is shown....... ........ NOT without curving stairs replacing the straight steps in the front !!!! That just looks so very, very nice on similar inspection engines..... . You later regret it, if you missed the opportunity to do it.......... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3059	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi

Well, whilst rebuilding all these mantuas, English, PennLine, MDC and Athearn, I had to do something while waiting for parts. I do think I am losing what's left of my mind. I dug out the Riv 0-6-0 switcher he had bought at some point. The tender had two bolsters and one sideframe. Fixed that. The loco has about 1/4" stub sicking out forward of the cylinder saddle.....and nothing else. The #2 axle, one driver at some point had been knocked off (I am beginning to suspect how), and super-glued on crooked. Pulled it, cleaned it, JB Welded it on, it's fine. The frame was cracked clean through on one side of the #2 axle, cleaned it, used Weld-On #16, glues it and clamped it, then glued a piece of 080 on the inside as a gusset. The weight.......Zamac. Swelled and cracked and bowed! Knocked a small hole in the boiler. Ground the weight down on the bench grinder, soaked with super-glue, fixed the hole, re-assembled, runs nice and smooth and slow. Dan is sending me some kind of pilot beam, steps and deck to section in. I can't believe I am doing this. But, full 100% success. I guess if I can get a Model "A" that has sat in a barn for 30 years running, I can do anything. Just don't ask me to help swap out a cylinder on a DC-3 again. > > I was just kidding Dave, > > For me, if it is not diecast or brass, I do not like to work on it... Iget them running, if they can and I get rid of them as soon as I can... They make some nice tenders though... > > However I plan to build this New Haven Nagatuck using a Poacher 4-4-0 and possibly a Roundhouse old tyme passenger car... The wheel to wheel measurements are as close as I could hope for on the plastic engine... then again, I might just use brass and the old diecast passenger car I have too... > > Later.. > Sean > > > > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Sean- Several things enter into this. > One, I wanted to resurrect it because I can. > Skills I have gained and honed in the 37 years since I quit half- > zero, working in restored automobiles, "0" sacle and #1 gauge, just > to see. > I have proven to myself that almost every broken, inoperative piece > of whatever I've jumped on, has come out the other end running good, > very good, or even perfect. > Sources on the three or 4 forums have been invaluable for odd parts. > > Two- The more of this plastic stuff I get running and back to my > brother, the more of the die-cast stuff I keep. (we're almost > done.....one Athearn shell, two couplers, and some repair pilot > steps for a steamer). > > Three- When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. > Lots of odd events, health and work-wise, and if I didn't have this > stuff to work on evenings I would have gone nuts. > > This Riv 2-8-0 probably has a value of about $4.50. > I will probably put 10 times that into it in parts. > But, it will go out of here running better and quieter than new. > > The guy at nwsl was surprised when I specified a motor shaft > size....and was more surprised when I told him we had the Menzies > Machine Shop u-joint and driveshaft kit installed that I got for it > about 1970. > > Dave > > > > > I suggest a 10# sledge.... > > Sean > > > > Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@> wrote: > > > > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote: Decided this old 2-8-0 > was going to get resurrected. > > .....The old foam rubber I had packed in the tender shell to try > to quiet > > down the motor and gears 40 years ago was a reminder.........and > > boy, does that stuff go bad in 40 years! > > > > > > Dave > > > > Dave, > > How about a cut-down old sock loosely filled with fiberglass > insulation to cut down on noise and vibration? > > retired grouch > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Never miss an email again! > > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it > out. > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast > > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3060	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi

Honestly guys, the best looking inspection engines of this era had those up front. I think that Dorothy of the LV ? had those up front. I'll attach an image from my files.........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3061	From: Deano	Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...

Hi, I am trying to put two Lionel HO sets back together...sets number 5741 and 5762. I have the original cars in boxes, but don't know which goes to which set...can anyone help? Thanks Dean in Cincy Dherbert53@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3062	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Re: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...

Dean:   From 1961 Lionel catalog:   Set No. 5741   4 Car 0-6-0 Steam Switcher Freight includes:   0602LT New 0-6-0 Steam Switcher and Slope-Back Tender with headlight (illustration shows Pennsylvania) 0301 New Operating Dump Car (Illustration shows no road name) 0842 New Culvert Pipe Transport Car (Illustration shows no road name) 0865-225 New Gondola with Scrap Iron (Illustration shows Michigan Central) 0819-225 Santa Fe Work Caboose (Illustration shows Santa Fe)   Didn't have any luck finding the other set number in any Lionel catalog I have.   I have a lot of lionel books but none seem to  have HO set numbers in them.  If I find anything else, I will let you know.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Deano To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Putting Lionel HO sets back together... Hi, I am trying to put two Lionel HO sets back together...sets number 5741 and 5762. I have the original cars in boxes, but don't know which goes to which set...can anyone help? Thanks Dean in Cincy Dherbert53@aol. com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3063	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Re: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Deano" <njtrainut@...> wrote: > > Hi, I am trying to put two Lionel HO sets back together...sets number > 5741 and 5762. I have the original cars in boxes, but don't know which > goes to which set...can anyone help? Thanks > > Dean in Cincy > Dherbert53@... Hi Dean, try under Literature at: http://www.hoseeker.net Not sure, but there may be something in the several Lionel catalogs there....Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3064	From: raymarinaccio	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Can you help ID this loco?

Good friends, I have aquired this unusual AB set and would be interested to know who made it. It looks kind of EMD E6-ish It has a Varney power truck. Was this something Varney produced? I posted some photos in the photo section under, Who Manufactured this? http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/browse/c664?c= Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3065	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

I am not sure that anyone manufactured it. It looks like a home casting (probably it is pure plumbers lead if it is) over a scratch- built frame. That Varney power truck looks like the one from their first switcher. I have a vague recollection of an article in the Craftsmen (before it became RMC) about casting your own diesel locomotive. They told how to make the mold out of wood, etc. Take a look along the bottom edges of the body castings to see if you see any marks where there might have been a sprue. Given the lack of porthole, window, or grille detail it just doesn't look like a commercial product. The exhausts are definitely for a double-engined locomotive like an E-6 or E-2, especially with the slant nose, but then it also looks like a DL-109 -- sort of, if you squint real hard. Nice find though! This is the kind of stuff that makes the HO collecting side of the hobby so much fun. Thanks for sharing the photos and I hope someone knows what it is or who made it. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "raymarinaccio" <raymarinaccio@...> wrote: > > Good friends, > I have aquired this unusual AB set and would be interested to know who > made it. It looks kind of EMD E6-ish > It has a Varney power truck. Was this something Varney produced? > I posted some photos in the photo section under, Who Manufactured this? > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/browse/c664?c= > > Ray >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3066	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

Isn't that an older Walthers power truck ??? Could it be from them ??? Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Mar 15, 2007, at 3:30 AM, raymarinaccio wrote: > Good friends, > I have aquired this unusual AB set and would be interested to know who > made it. It looks kind of EMD E6-ish > It has a Varney power truck. Was this something Varney produced? > I posted some photos in the photo section under, Who Manufactured > this? > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/browse/c664?c=

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3067	From: erieberk	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

These shells remind me of Dallas Modelcraft, which I believe were intended to take mechanisms such as Varney, etc. In trying to locate my catalog of this manufacturer just now, I found I'm unable to locate it so I can't compare it. As I recall, they were on the crude side; if someone else has anything on Dallas, maybe they could check further on this manufacturer. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "raymarinaccio" <raymarinaccio@...> wrote: > > Good friends, > I have aquired this unusual AB set and would be interested to know who > made it. It looks kind of EMD E6-ish > It has a Varney power truck. Was this something Varney produced? > I posted some photos in the photo section under, Who Manufactured this? > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/browse/c664?c= > > Ray >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3068	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

Mike and list: Definitely, a Varney power truck. Pittman open frame motor mounted on a Varney cast gear box with pulleys for a spring belt drive and Varney side frames. Have a few of them, myself. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3069	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

Probably the reason for freight car trucks under the "B" unit was it cost too much to get proper trucks at the time. I got a General Models 600hp Dismal Switcher long ago in "0" with Lobaugh passenger car trucks and no power at all. Seems you buy them in stages and bits, too much money for power. Now all you need to do is find more power trucks and you'll be able to pull something! Dave > > Mike and list: Definitely, a Varney power truck. Pittman open frame > motor mounted on a Varney cast gear box with pulleys for a spring belt > drive and Varney side frames. Have a few of them, myself. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3070	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

How I well remember the early days of HO model railroading. I got into HO in 1940, with an American Flyer Hudson 4-6-4 steam locomotive, pre war no less. My Father worked at the Boston Store and he bought this locomotive which had been the demonstrator on a small loop of track at their Christmas Toy Department celebration. As such, it already had many miles on it but, for years it labored victoriously on my track at home. I even placed MILW heralds on the tender side sheets. Later, I build a cardboard and wood MILW Tender which looked much more at home as a local piece of power. I bought another one about 1944, a wartime offering. That ran well too, ... for awhile. Then with middle age oncoming, the lead(?) castings exploded and left me with literally, the frames. I had converted both of them to 6 volts DC, with Pittman's conversion magnets, which added weight and gave me more tractive effort. I had numbered them as MILW 107 and 109. During WW 2, I enjoyed Purdy's Hobby Shop on N. 2nd Street, just north of W.Wells Street. I could spend an hour or two in there, listening to their advice that John and his wife Bea, had to offer. I could afford very little but, usually had enough money to buy a Varney wood and paper kit, then at $1.25 trucks and couplers, included. Those were the grand old days, for me. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3071	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

Ray, You might be the light in the darkness on this one. I did a quick Google Search for the exact phrase "Dallas Modelcraft" and the only hit was this auction for one of their 1947 Catalogs: <http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=6078&p=6&srch=search% 20this%20auction> The cover shows a distinctly E-6 looking locomotive. No idea what is in the catalog but at least it moves us of TDC. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > These shells remind me of Dallas Modelcraft, which I believe were > intended to take mechanisms such as Varney, etc. In trying to locate > my catalog of this manufacturer just now, I found I'm unable to > locate it so I can't compare it. As I recall, they were on the crude > side; if someone else has anything on Dallas, maybe they could check > further on this manufacturer. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "raymarinaccio" <raymarinaccio@> > wrote: > > > > Good friends, > > I have aquired this unusual AB set and would be interested to know > who > > made it. It looks kind of EMD E6-ish > > It has a Varney power truck. Was this something Varney produced? > > I posted some photos in the photo section under, Who Manufactured > this? > > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/browse/c664?c= > > > > Ray > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3072	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

Obviously my HTML coding is off and the link in my previous message (attached below) isn't live unless you paste the stuff on the second line into the header. The auction number you are looking for is #90131. And the more I look at the photo on the cover the more it looks like an E7 anyway. <http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=6078&p=6&srch=search% 20this%20auction> Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > You might be the light in the darkness on this one. I did a quick > Google Search for the exact phrase "Dallas Modelcraft" and the only > hit was this auction for one of their 1947 Catalogs: > > <http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=6078&p=6&srch=search% > 20this%20auction> > > The cover shows a distinctly E-6 looking locomotive. No idea what is > in the catalog but at least it moves us of TDC. > > Matt > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@> wrote: > > > > These shells remind me of Dallas Modelcraft, which I believe were > > intended to take mechanisms such as Varney, etc. In trying to > locate > > my catalog of this manufacturer just now, I found I'm unable to > > locate it so I can't compare it. As I recall, they were on the > crude > > side; if someone else has anything on Dallas, maybe they could > check > > further on this manufacturer. Ray > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "raymarinaccio" <raymarinaccio@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Good friends, > > > I have aquired this unusual AB set and would be interested to > know > > who > > > made it. It looks kind of EMD E6-ish > > > It has a Varney power truck. Was this something Varney produced? > > > I posted some photos in the photo section under, Who > Manufactured > > this? > > > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/browse/c664? c= > > > > > > Ray > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3073	From: Bill Daley	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: These shells remind me of Dallas Modelcraft, which I believe were intended to take mechanisms such as Varney, etc. In trying to locate my catalog of this manufacturer just now, I found I'm unable to locate it so I can't compare it. As I recall, they were on the crude side; if someone else has anything on Dallas, maybe they could check further on this manufacturer. Ray Ray, If they're Dallas Modelcraft, they're totally different from the locos I have. My Dallas Modelcraft E7A is a brass nose casting, a brass roof casting,  and a brass end casting. The sides were "engraver's metal" shallowly etched.   You were supposed to screw the nose casting to the roof, then the end casting to the roof and finally cut, file, fit,  and affix the sides. There was no floor per se, just a brass strip to which the  trucks got hung by screws with the motor mounted also on that strip.  The brass castings were tough to file;  you had to drill, file, and sweat ( and maybe even swear) to made the windshield openings. No wonder they didn't prosper when the competition was Lindsay, Varney, and Hobbytown. retired grouch   . No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3074	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: New PROOF of the Original Penn Line Whitcomb Mini Diesel

Hey Guys! I just received the whitcomb I purchsed on eBay this week... As soon as I take photos of the engine and instructions, I will post them... Later! Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3075	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: New PROOF of the Original Penn Line Whitcomb Mini Diesel

Attachments : OK Here it is...   I will post these as well as new photos of the engine in my yahoo VintageHO folder. Sean a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hey Guys! I just received the whitcomb I purchsed on eBay this week... As soon as I take photos of the engine and instructions, I will post them... Later! Sean Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3076	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

The sideframes are the Varney PRR rollerbearing passenger truck sideframes The truck could be anything. The design was used by Varney, Walthers, Hobbyline, even many brass imports. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:13 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Can you help ID this loco? > Isn't that an older Walthers power truck ??? > > Could it be from them ??? > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Mar 15, 2007, at 3:30 AM, raymarinaccio wrote: > >> Good friends, >> I have aquired this unusual AB set and would be interested to know who >> made it. It looks kind of EMD E6-ish >> It has a Varney power truck. Was this something Varney produced? >> I posted some photos in the photo section under, Who Manufactured >> this? >> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/browse/c664?c= > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3077	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

----- Original Message ----- From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 8:04 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can you help ID this loco? > These shells remind me of Dallas Modelcraft, which I believe were > intended to take mechanisms such as Varney, etc. In trying to locate > my catalog of this manufacturer just now, I found I'm unable to > locate it so I can't compare it. As I recall, they were on the crude > side; if someone else has anything on Dallas, maybe they could check > further on this manufacturer. Ray > The only information I have on Dallas is from old ads in MR ca. the late 1940's, but the pictures in their ads looked MUCH better than this one. I like the idea soeone suggested about it possibly being home-made. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3078	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

Don, The reason I originally thought it might be home made is that it looked like the molding was a one piece mold with no side detail or window openings. In the dark days of HO there were articles about making castings like that using wood molds that you could pour lead into. Also, the frame appears to be hand shaped, but all in all, based on the photos it was nicely made. Good craftsmanship in the construction just not much detail. The nose is a simplified compound curve, something you could make a mold for with hand tools. Also, I did a bit more research last night on Dallas Modelcraft. They did mostly brass castings, including a lot of WWII models back in the lat 1940s. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 8:04 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can you help ID this loco? > > > > These shells remind me of Dallas Modelcraft, which I believe were > > intended to take mechanisms such as Varney, etc. In trying to locate > > my catalog of this manufacturer just now, I found I'm unable to > > locate it so I can't compare it. As I recall, they were on the crude > > side; if someone else has anything on Dallas, maybe they could check > > further on this manufacturer. Ray > > > > The only information I have on Dallas is from old ads in MR ca. the late > 1940's, but the pictures in their ads looked MUCH better than this one. I > like the idea soeone suggested about it possibly being home-made. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3079	From: Deano	Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...

Thanks guys! Really appreciate the help. Dean in Cincy --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Deano" <njtrainut@> wrote: > > > > Hi, I am trying to put two Lionel HO sets back together...sets number > > 5741 and 5762. I have the original cars in boxes, but don't know > which > > goes to which set...can anyone help? Thanks > > > > Dean in Cincy > > Dherbert53@ > > > Hi Dean, try under Literature at: http://www.hoseeker.net Not sure, > but there may be something in the several Lionel catalogs there....Ken > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3080	From: oljoeoh	Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: New PROOF of the Original Penn Line Whitcomb Mini Diesel

Fabulous..... Is your ebay find the same as the "greenie" discussed earlier in this thread? I purchased my original Whitcomb in 1955. It was the geared Whitcomb. What attracted me was the price of this item - cheap enough for a paperboy to afford it. Was simple enough for a 14 year old to get it together and running. Had trouble understanding how to remove the flash from the casting until the janitor of the building I lived in gave me a smallish triangular shaped file to use. I had been trying to do the job with sandpaper, until I got my hands on that file. What a difference in efficiency. Later bought and assembled the GG-1, T-1, and numerous Mantua kits and Hobbytown kits (loved those huge Pittman DC91 motors). Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > OK Here it is... > > I will post these as well as new photos of the engine in my yahoo VintageHO folder. > Sean > > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > Hey Guys! > I just received the whitcomb I purchsed on eBay this week... As soon as > I take photos of the engine and instructions, I will post them... > Later! > Sean > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3081	From: erieberk	Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

Bill, Matt, Don and others, Thanks for shedding further light on this one. With these descriptions of Dallas Modelcraft coming in, it looks like we can rule them out for these castings. I never owned a Dallas Modelcraft, so could not actually picture them in my mind; only remembered them from the catalog. While these may be home made castings I kind of tend to doubt it as, except for the lack of detail, they look too good to me to be done by an amateur, especially as what roof detail there is, is not too bad. I will be quick to add though, that I could be mistaken, but if so this guy should have stayed with it and improved on them; since they seem to be professionally proportioned. I can't think of another early manufacturer that may have produced these, but there were a small number of small outfits, like George Stock and Schraeder and others who did smaller runs. I have Schraeder's PRR GG-1 and NYNY&H EP-4 kits and although they are cast bronze, there is not much detail (not much detail needed on them) and the windows need to be drilled and filed out. This is only to demonstrate that some early professionally produced models could be somewhat on the crude side. A further possibility just occurred to me. A plaster cast could have been made from a StromBecker E Unit set (which I believe had slant- noses), with some added roof detail, which could explain some of the professionalism if made by a modeler. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> wrote: > > > > erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: These shells remind me of Dallas Modelcraft, which I believe were > intended to take mechanisms such as Varney, etc. In trying to locate > my catalog of this manufacturer just now, I found I'm unable to > locate it so I can't compare it. As I recall, they were on the crude > side; if someone else has anything on Dallas, maybe they could check > further on this manufacturer. Ray > > > Ray, > If they're Dallas Modelcraft, they're totally different from the locos I have. > My Dallas Modelcraft E7A is a brass nose casting, a brass roof casting, and a brass end casting. The sides were "engraver's metal" shallowly etched. You were supposed to screw the nose casting to the roof, then the end casting to the roof and finally cut, file, fit, and affix the sides. There was no floor per se, just a brass strip to which the trucks got hung by screws with the motor mounted also on that strip. The brass castings were tough to file; you had to drill, file, and sweat ( and maybe even swear) to made the windshield openings. > No wonder they didn't prosper when the competition was Lindsay, Varney, and Hobbytown. > retired grouch > > > > Recent Activity > > 2 > New Members > > 17 > New Photos > > Visit Your Group > SPONSORED LINKS > > N scale train set > Scale model train > Ho scale trains > Ho scale model train > G scale model train > > Live in Style > Want to be Martha? > Tell us why and > be a winner! > > Yahoo! News > Adventure Beat > Travel the world > with Richard Bangs > > Yahoo! TV > Stay updated > Get video & read blogs > on The Apprentice. > > > > . > > > > > > --------------------------------- > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3082	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: CRUSADER

Partial Penn Line kit at. Roger Aultman http://cgi.ebay.com/Penn-Line-HO-Aluminum-Streamline-Locomotive-Kit-w-Box_W0QQitemZ230105351918QQcategoryZ484QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3083	From: Bill Daley	Date: 3/17/2007
Subject: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3

to the group:   I have a plastic shell, Hobbytown RS3 into which I jury rigged a Model Power RS1 power chassis.   Within the last 2 years, the handrails, being almost 50 years old, snap if you look at them wrong.  Has anybody experienced this problem and more importantly, how did you remedy it.   I'm thinking of using Uncle Irv's stanchions cut and re-bent to size and steel wire. What other options?   TIA, retired grouch     Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3084	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3

I have the same problem on mine, and it's not even built yet!   The Athearn stanchions will work, but Kemtron, now Precision Scale, made a set of brass stanchions that were Alco prototype specifically for the RS-3, I would assume they're still available from PSC.    You might also check the availablilty of complete handrail kits from Smokey Valley,  I believe thay had one intended for the Atlas RS-3 that should work,  I had one of their kits for a GP-30 that was quite nice.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Daley To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 6:17 PM Subject: [vintageHO] broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 to the group:   I have a plastic shell, Hobbytown RS3 into which I jury rigged a Model Power RS1 power chassis.   Within the last 2 years, the handrails, being almost 50 years old, snap if you look at them wrong.  Has anybody experienced this problem and more importantly, how did you remedy it.   I'm thinking of using Uncle Irv's stanchions cut and re-bent to size and steel wire. What other options?   TIA, retired grouch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3085	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3

I would bet that PSC does have them. But, I have not been able to figure out which ones would be correct for the Hobbytown RS-3. I have an old set of Kemtron handrails that I "think" might be right, but truthfully I don't know how to tell. I would love to hear from them that knows. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:46:36 -0600 I have the same problem on mine, and it's not even built yet! The Athearn stanchions will work, but Kemtron, now Precision Scale, made a set of brass stanchions that were Alco prototype specifically for the RS-3, I would assume they're still available from PSC. You might also check the availablilty of complete handrail kits from Smokey Valley, I believe thay had one intended for the Atlas RS-3 that should work, I had one of their kits for a GP-30 that was quite nice. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Daley To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 6:17 PM Subject: [vintageHO] broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 to the group: I have a plastic shell, Hobbytown RS3 into which I jury rigged a Model Power RS1 power chassis. Within the last 2 years, the handrails, being almost 50 years old, snap if you look at them wrong. Has anybody experienced this problem and more importantly, how did you remedy it. I'm thinking of using Uncle Irv's stanchions cut and re-bent to size and steel wire. What other options? TIA, retired grouch _________________________________________________________________ Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN Presents today. http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3086	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: For you Penn Line guys: Penn Line HO K-4 Pacific Steamer Kit #270

Attachments : For you Penn Line guys: Penn Line HO K-4 Pacific Steamer Kit #270100363119 _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglinemarch07

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3087	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3

You may also consider Smokey Valley #676-31 Alco RS 3 handrail kit.  It’s for the Atlas-Stewart loco, but could probably be easily modified.  Not cheap ($15.95/set), but they do look good, and the handrail wire is almost scale size. JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bill Daley Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 7:17 PM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3   to the group:   I have a plastic shell, Hobbytown RS3 into which I jury rigged a Model Power RS1 power chassis.   Within the last 2 years, the handrails, being almost 50 years old, snap if you look at them wrong.  Has anybody experienced this problem and more importantly, how did you remedy it.   I'm thinking of using Uncle Irv's stanchions cut and re-bent to size and steel wire. What other options?   TIA, retired grouch       Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3088	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> wrote: > > to the group: > > I have a plastic shell, Hobbytown RS3 into which I jury rigged a Model Power RS1 power chassis. > > Within the last 2 years, the handrails, being almost 50 years old, snap if you look at them wrong. Has anybody experienced this problem and more importantly, how did you remedy it. > > I'm thinking of using Uncle Irv's stanchions cut and re-bent to size and steel wire. What other options? > > TIA, > retired grouch > > > > > I replaced the stanchions on my HT RS-3 with plastic Precision Scale ones, Walthers #585-39064, $3.50 for pkg of 24. They're a good match to the original ones, but Walthers show they're currently not in stock....Ken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3089	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

There is this rather interesting ebay auction right now...   Item 300092847814 HO Tyco Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific Custom Pnt for Girls Train HO Girls Train Set / Duplicate of Lionel 1957 Pink Set   http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Tyco-Mantua-4-6-2-Pacific-Custom-Pnt-for-Girls-Train_W0QQitemZ300092847814QQcategoryZ484QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem   Whether or not this be considered "blasphemy" by some, it looks like very nice paintsmanship.   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3090	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3

Try these two part numbers from an old Walthers book for PSC 585-39063 (Brass) 585-39074 (Plastic) Going back further, Kemtron X-206 The Kemtrons specifically say in the cataklog "for hobbytown" Smokey Valley 617-18 (complete kit, adverstised as being for the AHM RS-2 676-108 (Stanchions only) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 >I would bet that PSC does have them. But, I have not been able to figure > out which ones would be correct for the Hobbytown RS-3. I have an old set > of Kemtron handrails that I "think" might be right, but truthfully I don't > know how to tell. I would love to hear from them that knows. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 > Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:46:36 -0600 > > I have the same problem on mine, and it's not even built yet! > > The Athearn stanchions will work, but Kemtron, now Precision Scale, made a > set of brass stanchions that were Alco prototype specifically for the > RS-3, > I would assume they're still available from PSC. > > You might also check the availablilty of complete handrail kits from > Smokey > Valley, I believe thay had one intended for the Atlas RS-3 that should > work, I had one of their kits for a GP-30 that was quite nice. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Daley > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 6:17 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 > > > to the group: > > I have a plastic shell, Hobbytown RS3 into which I jury rigged a Model > Power RS1 power chassis. > > Within the last 2 years, the handrails, being almost 50 years old, snap > if you look at them wrong. Has anybody experienced this problem and more > importantly, how did you remedy it. > > I'm thinking of using Uncle Irv's stanchions cut and re-bent to size and > steel wire. What other options? > > TIA, > retired grouch > > _________________________________________________________________ > Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN > Presents today. > http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001 > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3091	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

Hello Chuck, I have two small giirls... I saw it too and am watching it. I wonder what the reserve is???  Sean "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote: There is this rather interesting ebay auction right now...   Item 300092847814 HO Tyco Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific Custom Pnt for Girls Train HO Girls Train Set / Duplicate of Lionel 1957 Pink Set   http://cgi.ebay. com/HO-Tyco- Mantua-4- 6-2-Pacific- Custom-Pnt- for-Girls- Train_W0QQitemZ3 00092847814QQcat egoryZ484QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem   Whether or not this be considered "blasphemy" by some, it looks like very nice paintsmanship.   Chuck Kinzer Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3092	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

It could be interesting, as long as it is understood that it was a custom item and did not come from Lionel's factory that way.  I have done a few special paint jobs on Lionel for people, mostly the late Tony Thomas--and I always put a label inside or underneath that I had done the work.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train" Hello Chuck, I have two small giirls... I saw it too and am watching it. I wonder what the reserve is???  Sean "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: There is this rather interesting ebay auction right now...   Item 300092847814 HO Tyco Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific Custom Pnt for Girls Train HO Girls Train Set / Duplicate of Lionel 1957 Pink Set   http://cgi.ebay. com/HO-Tyco- Mantua-4- 6-2-Pacific- Custom-Pnt- for-Girls- Train_W0QQitemZ3 00092847814QQcat egoryZ484QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem   Whether or not this be considered "blasphemy" by some, it looks like very nice paintsmanship.   Chuck Kinzer Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3093	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

Chuck--just noticed, as I see the same name on two separate emails right together--are you any connection to a Bill Kinzer in Mason City, IA?  ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train" Hello Chuck, I have two small giirls... I saw it too and am watching it. I wonder what the reserve is???  Sean "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: There is this rather interesting ebay auction right now...   Item 300092847814 HO Tyco Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific Custom Pnt for Girls Train HO Girls Train Set / Duplicate of Lionel 1957 Pink Set   http://cgi.ebay. com/HO-Tyco- Mantua-4- 6-2-Pacific- Custom-Pnt- for-Girls- Train_W0QQitemZ3 00092847814QQcat egoryZ484QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem   Whether or not this be considered "blasphemy" by some, it looks like very nice paintsmanship.   Chuck Kinzer Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3094	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

Not that I know of.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Joesten To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train" Chuck--just noticed, as I see the same name on two separate emails right together--are you any connection to a Bill Kinzer in Mason City, IA?  ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train" Hello Chuck, I have two small giirls... I saw it too and am watching it. I wonder what the reserve is???  Sean "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: There is this rather interesting ebay auction right now...   Item 300092847814 HO Tyco Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific Custom Pnt for Girls Train HO Girls Train Set / Duplicate of Lionel 1957 Pink Set   http://cgi.ebay. com/HO-Tyco- Mantua-4- 6-2-Pacific- Custom-Pnt- for-Girls- Train_W0QQitemZ3 00092847814QQcat egoryZ484QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem   Whether or not this be considered "blasphemy" by some, it looks like very nice paintsmanship.   Chuck Kinzer Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3095	From: cgls@btinternet.com	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBay UK.

Good day all.   I have just spotted the following Vintage looking item on eBay in the UK. Anyone any ideas of what, whom and when? - 190093942653   Following on from Don's advice for parts for the RS3. I have several packs of Kemtron Handrail Stantions - Nos. 790, 792, 793 & 797. Does anyone know what locos these packs were intended for? I have an Athearn GP35 I would like to detail, are any of the above Kemtron stantions suitable? Many thanks in advance.   Chris Smith Manchester England.   Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Try these two part numbers from an old Walthers book for PSC 585-39063 (Brass) 585-39074 (Plastic) Going back further, Kemtron X-206 The Kemtrons specifically say in the cataklog "for hobbytown" Smokey Valley 617-18 (complete kit, adverstised as being for the AHM RS-2 676-108 (Stanchions only) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3096	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBa

Hello Chris. I saw one sold before with that same chassis. I believe the chassis is brass. That I believe is one of the very first Rivarossi C-Liners Sean cgls@... wrote: Good day all.   I have just spotted the following Vintage looking item on eBay in the UK. Anyone any ideas of what, whom and when? - 190093942653   Following on from Don's advice for parts for the RS3. I have several packs of Kemtron Handrail Stantions - Nos. 790, 792, 793 & 797. Does anyone know what locos these packs were intended for? I have an Athearn GP35 I would like to detail, are any of the above Kemtron stantions suitable? Many thanks in advance.   Chris Smith Manchester England.   Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: Try these two part numbers from an old Walthers book for PSC 585-39063 (Brass) 585-39074 (Plastic) Going back further, Kemtron X-206 The Kemtrons specifically say in the cataklog "for hobbytown" Smokey Valley 617-18 (complete kit, adverstised as being for the AHM RS-2 676-108 (Stanchions only) Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3097	From: Lance Russwurm	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

Hi Glenn..... Coincidentally, only last night I was reading Howard Zane's coffee table book "My Life With Model Trains". He mentions the Pink train sets made by Lionel. It seems it was  a late fifties marketing attempt to attract females into the hobby. As if any female interested in trains would want pink ones! Howard says it was the worst marketing error they ever made, right up there with "new" Coke, probably turning off even more women from model railroading. So, according to Howard, they WERE a regular Lionel factory item, but only for a very short time. Apparently they are quite valuable  as rare collectibles today.   Lance Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: It could be interesting, as long as it is understood that it was a custom item and did not come from Lionel's factory that way.  I have done a few special paint jobs on Lionel for people, mostly the late Tony Thomas--and I always put a label inside or underneath that I had done the work.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train" Hello Chuck, I have two small giirls... I saw it too and am watching it. I wonder what the reserve is???  Sean "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: There is this rather interesting ebay auction right now...   Item 300092847814 HO Tyco Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific Custom Pnt for Girls Train HO Girls Train Set / Duplicate of Lionel 1957 Pink Set   http://cgi.ebay. com/HO-Tyco- Mantua-4- 6-2-Pacific- Custom-Pnt- for-Girls- Train_W0QQitemZ3 00092847814QQcat egoryZ484QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem   Whether or not this be considered "blasphemy" by some, it looks like very nice paintsmanship.   Chuck Kinzer Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A. Lance Russwurm   http://www.lancerusswurm.com   http://ca.geocities.com/stjacobsrr@.../ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3098	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

That's a good possibility. If you read the really early Model Railroader and RMC's from right after WWII you can see how creative modelers were when they wanted to get a locomotive that wasn't available. The proportions weren't always perfect, but they came up with creative solutions. This might have been one of them. I have never seen a Strombecker Diesel body so I couldn't guess as to how close it might be. They are true rarities in the old HO field. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: A further possibility just occurred to me. A plaster cast could have been made from a StromBecker E Unit set (which I believe had slant-noses), with some added roof detail, which could explain some of the > professionalism if made by a modeler. Ray W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3099	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

OK--thanks--he is a friend of one of my long-time RR friends.  just had a message from him--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles E. Kinzer To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train" Not that I know of.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Joesten To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train" Chuck--just noticed, as I see the same name on two separate emails right together--are you any connection to a Bill Kinzer in Mason City, IA?  ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train" Hello Chuck, I have two small giirls... I saw it too and am watching it. I wonder what the reserve is???  Sean "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: There is this rather interesting ebay auction right now...   Item 300092847814 HO Tyco Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific Custom Pnt for Girls Train HO Girls Train Set / Duplicate of Lionel 1957 Pink Set   http://cgi.ebay. com/HO-Tyco- Mantua-4- 6-2-Pacific- Custom-Pnt- for-Girls- Train_W0QQitemZ3 00092847814QQcat egoryZ484QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem   Whether or not this be considered "blasphemy" by some, it looks like very nice paintsmanship.   Chuck Kinzer Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3100	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

"Lance Russwurm" davinci1953@... stated: > Coincidentally, only last night I was reading Howard Zane's coffee table book "My Life With Model Trains". He mentions the Pink train sets made by Lionel. It seems it was a late fifties marketing attempt to attract females into the hobby. As if any female interested in trains would want pink ones! Howard says it was the worst marketing error they ever made, right up there with "new" Coke, probably turning off even more women from model railroading. > So, according to Howard, they WERE a regular Lionel factory item, but only for a very short time. Apparently they are quite valuable as rare collectibles today. What made them ever more rare is the fact that many dealers re-painted them black simply to sell what was a "pink elephant". :) Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3101	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

Ray:  It was Lionel that painted them back to black not the dealer, plus the engine was there run of the mill engine they used in most set, a 2-6-2 not a 4-6-2 like is being shown on E-bay for the HO scale girl train.  They sold for about $50.00 when they came out, and now if you can find one in mint cond. it is worth over $3000.00 or more.   Mike Looney

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3102	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBa

You're in luck.   790 is for the Athearn GP-35 or Tyco GP-20   792 is the Tyco Alco Century 430   793 is for the Athearn DD-40   797 is the Athearn U-28-C and U-33-C   (Source, Walthers catalogs, 1972-1977)   The eBay auction is a Fairbanks Morse C-Liner, I have never seen a metal one, but Rivarossi (imported to the US by Lionel and Aristo-craft {forrunner of AHM}) did advertise one in the late 1950's, (in WP paint FWIW) an educated guess would say that this is it.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: cgls@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 4:24 AM Subject: [vintageHO] broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBay UK. Good day all.   I have just spotted the following Vintage looking item on eBay in the UK. Anyone any ideas of what, whom and when? - 190093942653   Following on from Don's advice for parts for the RS3. I have several packs of Kemtron Handrail Stantions - Nos. 790, 792, 793 & 797. Does anyone know what locos these packs were intended for? I have an Athearn GP35 I would like to detail, are any of the above Kemtron stantions suitable? Many thanks in advance.   Chris Smith Manchester England.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3103	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

Correct, they WERE standard Lionel.  This auction however is for HO scale reproductions of the original Lionel "O" set.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance Russwurm To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train" Hi Glenn..... Coincidentally, only last night I was reading Howard Zane's coffee table book "My Life With Model Trains". He mentions the Pink train sets made by Lionel. It seems it was  a late fifties marketing attempt to attract females into the hobby. As if any female interested in trains would want pink ones! Howard says it was the worst marketing error they ever made, right up there with "new" Coke, probably turning off even more women from model railroading. So, according to Howard, they WERE a regular Lionel factory item, but only for a very short time. Apparently they are quite valuable  as rare collectibles today.   Lance Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote: It could be interesting, as long as it is understood that it was a custom item and did not come from Lionel's factory that way.  I have done a few special paint jobs on Lionel for people, mostly the late Tony Thomas--and I always put a label inside or underneath that I had done the work.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train" Hello Chuck, I have two small giirls... I saw it too and am watching it. I wonder what the reserve is???  Sean "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: There is this rather interesting ebay auction right now...   Item 300092847814 HO Tyco Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific Custom Pnt for Girls Train HO Girls Train Set / Duplicate of Lionel 1957 Pink Set   http://cgi.ebay. com/HO-Tyco- Mantua-4- 6-2-Pacific- Custom-Pnt- for-Girls- Train_W0QQitemZ3 00092847814QQcat egoryZ484QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem   Whether or not this be considered "blasphemy" by some, it looks like very nice paintsmanship.   Chuck Kinzer Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A. Lance Russwurm   http://www.lancerusswurm.com   http://ca.geocities.com/stjacobsrr@.../ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3104	From: cgls@btinternet.com	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBa

Thanks Sean and Don.   Now you come to mention it, it does remind me of a Circa 1950s Rivarossi loco I once owned and sold to a chap in Spain of all places!! What threw me was the metal body, mine had a hefty plastic body, but the underframe shot on eBay was just like mine with the pressed metal keeper plates on the bogies (trucks!!).   Thanks for the info re. Kemtron HR Stantions too. I have several sets so if anyone is in need of a set or two please e-mail me off group.   All the best from a rather cold, damp Manchester.   Chris Smith Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: You're in luck.   790 is for the Athearn GP-35 or Tyco GP-20   792 is the Tyco Alco Century 430   793 is for the Athearn DD-40   797 is the Athearn U-28-C and U-33-C   (Source, Walthers catalogs, 1972-1977)   The eBay auction is a Fairbanks Morse C-Liner, I have never seen a metal one, but Rivarossi (imported to the US by Lionel and Aristo-craft {forrunner of AHM}) did advertise one in the late 1950's, (in WP paint FWIW) an educated guess would say that this is it.   Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3105	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

The locomotive in this auction is an old original Fairbanks Morse C Liner made by Rivarossi in the late Fifties. The body is thick Bakelite, and the frame is a thin piece of steel with an early version of the later motor used in the AHM version. The shell does not have the cast on handrails like the later versions, and there is also window detail not present later on. The sideframes are die cast metal, it has brass gearing. I could never figure out how the couplers were mounted, as the one that I had didn't have any, They were supposed to be mounted to the trucks somehow. I have a picture of one of these units in an old mag that shows it with some version of an old hook and loop coupler. It ran similar to the early Sixties version imported by AHM which had brass gears and featured the early motor mounted on a steel plate within a plastic frame. I have three of the Strombecker E units, actually three As and one B. Now, THAT's rare. The B is still in its original box, unbuilt. One of the units is powered with an old, OLD power unit made by Walthers... I Think, specifically for this purpose. If anyone is interested, I can post some pictures of it. It actually runs really well despite its age. Another one was decaled for the B & O, as shown in some early Strombecker ads, and has early Lindsay Alco PA dummy trucks mounted to it. The third is just a standard wood E unit with the Strombecker Paper sided trucks. All of them are cut to receive a power unit, aznd all are identical, so I would have to assume that they all came that way. I have one of the Rock Island Rocket sets, and one of the Freight sets that features a wood 4 6 2 Pacific. I have some built cars, and some unbuilt ones. I also have several of the passenger cars, both built and unbuilt. They are all unique pieces of HO history, and favor quite well compared with some of their vintage contemporarys.     AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3106	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

I have a set of the Rock Island cars, with real trucks--for which I either need a loco ("Power Car") or a "home". gj ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Can you help ID this loco? The locomotive in this auction is an old original Fairbanks Morse C Liner made by Rivarossi in the late Fifties. The body is thick Bakelite, and the frame is a thin piece of steel with an early version of the later motor used in the AHM version. The shell does not have the cast on handrails like the later versions, and there is also window detail not present later on. The sideframes are die cast metal, it has brass gearing. I could never figure out how the couplers were mounted, as the one that I had didn't have any, They were supposed to be mounted to the trucks somehow. I have a picture of one of these units in an old mag that shows it with some version of an old hook and loop coupler. It ran similar to the early Sixties version imported by AHM which had brass gears and featured the early motor mounted on a steel plate within a plastic frame. I have three of the Strombecker E units, actually three As and one B. Now, THAT's rare. The B is still in its original box, unbuilt. One of the units is powered with an old, OLD power unit made by Walthers... I Think, specifically for this purpose. If anyone is interested, I can post some pictures of it. It actually runs really well despite its age. Another one was decaled for the B & O, as shown in some early Strombecker ads, and has early Lindsay Alco PA dummy trucks mounted to it. The third is just a standard wood E unit with the Strombecker Paper sided trucks. All of them are cut to receive a power unit, aznd all are identical, so I would have to assume that they all came that way. I have one of the Rock Island Rocket sets, and one of the Freight sets that features a wood 4 6 2 Pacific. I have some built cars, and some unbuilt ones. I also have several of the passenger cars, both built and unbuilt. They are all unique pieces of HO history, and favor quite well compared with some of their vintage contemporarys.     AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3107	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

I would like to se photos of those Strombecker E units.  I haven't been able to find a decent photo of one. MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: The locomotive in this auction is an old original Fairbanks Morse C Liner made by Rivarossi in the late Fifties. The body is thick Bakelite, and the frame is a thin piece of steel with an early version of the later motor used in the AHM version. The shell does not have the cast on handrails like the later versions, and there is also window detail not present later on. The sideframes are die cast metal, it has brass gearing. I could never figure out how the couplers were mounted, as the one that I had didn't have any, They were supposed to be mounted to the trucks somehow. I have a picture of one of these units in an old mag that shows it with some version of an old hook and loop coupler. It ran similar to the early Sixties version imported by AHM which had brass gears and featured the early motor mounted on a steel plate within a plastic frame. I have three of the Strombecker E units, actually three As and one B. Now, THAT's rare. The B is still in its original box, unbuilt. One of the units is powered with an old, OLD power unit made by Walthers... I Think, specifically for this purpose. If anyone is interested, I can post some pictures of it. It actually runs really well despite its age. Another one was decaled for the B & O, as shown in some early Strombecker ads, and has early Lindsay Alco PA dummy trucks mounted to it. The third is just a standard wood E unit with the Strombecker Paper sided trucks. All of them are cut to receive a power unit, aznd all are identical, so I would have to assume that they all came that way. I have one of the Rock Island Rocket sets, and one of the Freight sets that features a wood 4 6 2 Pacific. I have some built cars, and some unbuilt ones. I also have several of the passenger cars, both built and unbuilt. They are all unique pieces of HO history, and favor quite well compared with some of their vintage contemporarys.     AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3108	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Red Ball 50 Ft Depressed Center Flatcar Kit #4327

I have a kit that I am needing help with. If you have one of these flat cars & you have the guide sheet for this kit will you please get with me off from this list... I need the guide sheet for this kit so that I can build it... Yours Truly, Nary Ann0...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3109	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball 50 Ft Depressed Center Flatcar Kit #4327

Dear Mary Ann,   I have CCS Depressed Center Flat #44327. It is made of plastic...same basic construction as thed older Red Ball #4327 kit you have, made of lead. Write me back off-line at the address after my signature. (Red Ball changed its name to Cannonball Car Shops at one point.)   John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...) "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@...> wrote: I have a kit that I am needing help with. If you have one of these flat cars & you have the guide sheet for this kit will you please get with me off from this list... I need the guide sheet for this kit so that I can build it... Yours Truly, Nary Ann0... Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3110	From: erieberk	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

Ray, Since the threads on StromBecKer were continuing, I thought I'd check my file cabinet of vintage catalogs. Much to my surprise, I came up with an illustrated StromBecKer price sheet of their models, intended for the hobby shops, which I forgot I had. If you'd like, send me your snail mail address off line (at < erieberk@... >) and I'll send you a print-out copy. I'm unable to post it or I would, but maybe you'd like to post it. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...> wrote: > > I would like to se photos of those Strombecker E units. > I haven't been able to find a decent photo of one. > > MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: > > I have three of the Strombecker E units, actually three As and one B. Now, THAT's rare. The B is still in its original box, unbuilt. One of the units is powered with an old, OLD power unit made by Walthers... I Think, specifically for this purpose. If anyone is interested, I can post some pictures of it. It actually runs really well despite its age. Another one was decaled for the B & O, as shown in some early Strombecker ads, and has early Lindsay Alco PA dummy trucks mounted to it. The third is just a standard wood E unit with the Strombecker Paper sided trucks. All of them are cut to receive a power unit, aznd all are identical, so I would have to assume that they all came that way. > > I have one of the Rock Island Rocket sets, and one of the Freight sets that features a wood 4 6 2 Pacific. I have some built cars, and some unbuilt ones. I also have several of the passenger cars, both built and unbuilt. They are all unique pieces of HO history, and favor quite well compared with some of their vintage contemporarys. > > > > --------------------------------- > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Bored stiff? Loosen up... > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3111	From: erieberk	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

Matt, As I just mentioned to Ray M., I came across a StromBecKer price sheet showing these diesels, among other products. As I look at them, it would appear that they could have been used to make molds if someone wanted to go that route. They had a Rock Island 1937 "Rocket" train which used the EMC TA Unit. While this was obviously not used to reproduce the metal shell in the discussion, they also produced two different (UP and B&O) EMD E-6 (yes, slant- nose) streamliner engine for use with their trainsets, the City of San Francisco (UP) and the other could well be the Cincinnatian (B&O) although the name is not mentioned -- just says Baltimore & Ohio. These were solid wood static display models with lithographed thin cardboard that you pasted onto the body. They could be converted to run by routing out the wood to accomodate a chassis w/lead truck and power truck. Incidentally, as told in their small catalogs (which I no longer have), I recall their story of how their brand name came about. These models were produced by two guys; one named Strombeck and the other named Becker, so they spelled the company's name as StromBecKer, with these three letters in caps. They are rarities now, although once in a while you'll see stuff on eBay. I used to build them when I was a kid -- paid 40 cents for the boxcar kits. There are a few things of their's on Ebay now, but no E-6's. I'll mention what I just got done searching for those who might be interested: #2800936145585 - Lot of streamlined cars (3 UP pass car kits, 3 B&O built up coaches) plus #R-1 Mikado - $10.99, #130083505520 - Best Friend of Charleston engine & tender kit - "Buy Now" $20.00, #270099517584 - Wm. Galloway engine, tender and 5 piece train built - $19.99, #25009503604 - DeWitt Clinton engine, tender and train, part/assembled - $9.99. The older period models were of early 1800's. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > That's a good possibility. If you read the really early Model > Railroader and RMC's from right after WWII you can see how creative > modelers were when they wanted to get a locomotive that wasn't > available. The proportions weren't always perfect, but they came up > with creative solutions. This might have been one of them. > > I have never seen a Strombecker Diesel body so I couldn't guess as > to how close it might be. They are true rarities in the old HO field. > > Matt > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@> wrote: > > A further possibility just occurred to me. A plaster cast could > have been made from a StromBecker E Unit set (which I believe had > slant-noses), with some added roof detail, which could explain some > of the > professionalism if made by a modeler. Ray W. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3112	From: erieberk	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

The StromBecKer B unit IS rare. As per the price sheet I just mentioned, the sets did not include the B unit. This was sold separately, as were additional coaches, if the builder wanted to add to it. But I wonder how many ever went back to get these available extras. Its quite possible that Walthers produced a power truck just for these models. I'll check their catalogs and will post if I see anything on that. StromBecKer does not suggest what to use, only that the units can be "electrified" by routing them out to accept the needed parts. The 1937 Rock Island Rocket set (engine and 3 cars) went for $1.79; no extra cars were available for this. The R-200 City of San Francisco set (engine and 3 cars) went for $2.79 and the R-210 Baltimore & Ohio (engine and 3 cars) also went for $2.79. The R-202 UP "B" Unit went for 89 cents and the R-203 UP extra coach went for 79 cents. Likewise, the R-212 B&O "B" Unit went for 89 cents and the R-213 B&O extra coach went for 79 cents. While I don't remember a 4-6-2 Pacific engine, I remember building a 2-8-2 Mikado which I paid $1.19 for. Their H0 cars (except for the "historic" kits of the early 19th century which were 0 scale, all these were H0 scale) were really fairly presentable for their price when time was taken to built the carefully, as the printing of the sides was quite nice. Of course, ladders, brake gear and other detail always helped if you wanted to use them on your layout. I probably built most of the ones that were offered. I remember their tank cars had a wrapper, similar to Mantua's. Usually, using these cars on the layout was an afterthought. If you were serious enough in building cars for your layout, you would have bought somewhat better kits in the first place, but these could pass. As I seem to recall, I think the price of Comet's kits were around 65 cents (the price may well be printed as part of the box top), and built up very nicely when extra time was taken to build them. Trucks needed to be added either way, as StromBecKer cars came with crude wooden trucks with wooden wheels and Comet's did not include them. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: > > I have three of the Strombecker E units, actually three As and one B. Now, THAT's rare. The B is still in its original box, unbuilt. One of the units is powered with an old, OLD power unit made by Walthers... I Think, specifically for this purpose. If anyone is interested, I can post some pictures of it. It actually runs really well despite its age. Another one was decaled for the B & O, as shown in some early Strombecker ads, and has early Lindsay Alco PA dummy trucks mounted to it. The third is just a standard wood E unit with the Strombecker Paper sided trucks. All of them are cut to receive a power unit, aznd all are identical, so I would have to assume that they all came that way. > > I have one of the Rock Island Rocket sets, and one of the Freight sets that features a wood 4 6 2 Pacific. I have some built cars, and some unbuilt ones. I also have several of the passenger cars, both built and unbuilt. They are all unique pieces of HO history, and favor quite well compared with some of their vintage contemporarys. > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3113	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"

Mike Looney excalibur5776@... said: > > It was Lionel that painted them back to black not the dealer, plus the engine was there run of the mill engine they used in most set, a 2-6-2 not a 4-6-2 like is being shown on E-bay for the HO scale girl train. The pink 2037 was a 2-6-4 and according to Greenberg and other references' I've read state many dealers re-painted them black...especially Madison Hardware in NYC. Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3114	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

That brings back memories!  I started building StromBecKer models at the ripe old age of 6 or 7--managed to build everything they made in the next few years.  On the trains, if I did a good job on the cars my Dad would get "real" trucks & couplers for them. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:06 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can you help ID this loco? Matt, As I just mentioned to Ray M., I came across a StromBecKer price sheet showing these diesels, among other products. As I look at them, it would appear that they could have been used to make molds if someone wanted to go that route. They had a Rock Island 1937 "Rocket" train which used the EMC TA Unit. While this was obviously not used to reproduce the metal shell in the discussion, they also produced two different (UP and B&O) EMD E-6 (yes, slant- nose) streamliner engine for use with their trainsets, the City of San Francisco (UP) and the other could well be the Cincinnatian (B&O) although the name is not mentioned -- just says Baltimore & Ohio. These were solid wood static display models with lithographed thin cardboard that you pasted onto the body. They could be converted to run by routing out the wood to accomodate a chassis w/lead truck and power truck. Incidentally, as told in their small catalogs (which I no longer have), I recall their story of how their brand name came about. These models were produced by two guys; one named Strombeck and the other named Becker, so they spelled the company's name as StromBecKer, with these three letters in caps. They are rarities now, although once in a while you'll see stuff on eBay. I used to build them when I was a kid -- paid 40 cents for the boxcar kits. There are a few things of their's on Ebay now, but no E-6's. I'll mention what I just got done searching for those who might be interested: #2800936145585 - Lot of streamlined cars (3 UP pass car kits, 3 B&O built up coaches) plus #R-1 Mikado - $10.99, #130083505520 - Best Friend of Charleston engine & tender kit - "Buy Now" $20.00, #270099517584 - Wm. Galloway engine, tender and 5 piece train built - $19.99, #25009503604 - DeWitt Clinton engine, tender and train, part/assembled - $9.99. The older period models were of early 1800's. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@ ...> wrote: > > That's a good possibility. If you read the really early Model > Railroader and RMC's from right after WWII you can see how creative > modelers were when they wanted to get a locomotive that wasn't > available. The proportions weren't always perfect, but they came up > with creative solutions. This might have been one of them. > > I have never seen a Strombecker Diesel body so I couldn't guess as > to how close it might be. They are true rarities in the old HO field. > > Matt > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@> wrote: > > A further possibility just occurred to me. A plaster cast could > have been made from a StromBecker E Unit set (which I believe had > slant-noses) , with some added roof detail, which could explain some > of the > professionalism if made by a modeler. Ray W. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3115	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Strombecker Photos

I have posted some photos of some of the Strombecker pieces that I have in the photos section. There are pictures of two different E units, one that is undecorated and powered with a vintage Walthers power unit, and one that is in pretty rough shape that is a Dummy which has Lindsay Alco PA trucks on it. The undecorated one runs really well despite its age, it has a weight added to the bottom, and a light in the nose. I also posted a picture of the unbuilt B unit that I have, as well as a picture of a Strombecker Mikado that is in somewhat rough shape. Someone pointed out that I mentioned that it was a Pacific, I was wrong... when I took it out of the box, I realized I was in error. I'll try to get some more pictures of some of the freight that I have posted, Perhaps some of the Passenger cars as well. ___ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3116	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Strombecker Photos

Attachments : JRLENGAL2U and list: Well done, brings back many memories. I have the three UP passenger cars and had an A unit diesel locomotive, which I cannot locate right now. I must say though, that the slant nose on the diesel locomotive is too upright to be an E 6 model. These have to be E 7's. The nose on the E 6 is much more slanted than these models. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3117	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?

Ray, Thanks for the note and additional info. What I love about this group is that everyone has a little piece of the puzzle and are willing to share it. Especially the info on Strombecker kits. When I was growing up I used to see Strombecker aircraft kits (never built one though) but never saw any of their railroad kits. However, as I learn more I am beginning to see why the Varney line of locos and car kits was so instrumental in putting HO in the lead for model railroaders -- by comparision with earlier kits (apparently including Strombecker,) Varney kits were incredibly well detailed. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Matt, As I just mentioned to Ray M., I came across a StromBecKer > price sheet showing these diesels, among other products. As I look > at them, it would appear that they could have been used to make molds > if someone wanted to go that route. They had a Rock Island > 1937 "Rocket" train which used the EMC TA Unit. While this was > obviously not used to reproduce the metal shell in the discussion, > they also produced two different (UP and B&O) EMD E-6 (yes, slant- > nose) streamliner engine for use with their trainsets, the City of > San Francisco (UP) and the other could well be the Cincinnatian (B&O) > although the name is not mentioned -- just says Baltimore & Ohio. > > These were solid wood static display models with lithographed thin > cardboard that you pasted onto the body. They could be converted to > run by routing out the wood to accomodate a chassis w/lead truck and > power truck. Incidentally, as told in their small catalogs (which I > no longer have), I recall their story of how their brand name came > about. These models were produced by two guys; one named Strombeck > and the other named Becker, so they spelled the company's name as > StromBecKer, with these three letters in caps. They are rarities > now, although once in a while you'll see stuff on eBay. I used to > build them when I was a kid -- paid 40 cents for the boxcar kits. > > There are a few things of their's on Ebay now, but no E-6's. I'll > mention what I just got done searching for those who might be > interested: #2800936145585 - Lot of streamlined cars (3 UP pass car > kits, 3 B&O built up coaches) plus #R-1 Mikado - $10.99, > #130083505520 - Best Friend of Charleston engine & tender kit - "Buy > Now" $20.00, #270099517584 - Wm. Galloway engine, tender and 5 piece > train built - $19.99, #25009503604 - DeWitt Clinton engine, tender > and train, part/assembled - $9.99. The older period models were of > early 1800's. Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@> > wrote: > > > > That's a good possibility. If you read the really early Model > > Railroader and RMC's from right after WWII you can see how creative > > modelers were when they wanted to get a locomotive that wasn't > > available. The proportions weren't always perfect, but they came up > > with creative solutions. This might have been one of them. > > > > I have never seen a Strombecker Diesel body so I couldn't guess as > > to how close it might be. They are true rarities in the old HO > field. > > > > Matt > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@> wrote: > > > > A further possibility just occurred to me. A plaster cast could > > have been made from a StromBecker E Unit set (which I believe had > > slant-noses), with some added roof detail, which could explain some > > of the > professionalism if made by a modeler. Ray W. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3118	From: rcjge	Date: 3/21/2007
Subject: Looking for Dave Spanagel

Hey Dave: Can you contact me oof list about the HT RS3 pilot/steps? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3119	From: erieberk	Date: 3/21/2007
Subject: Re: Strombecker Photos

Stephen, Many thanks for posting your StromBecKer photos. Always good to see these old pieces. While I had most of the H0 freight cars and the Mikado, and the larger "historic" trainsets, I never had these E-Units nor the passenger cars. I had remembered them as E-6 or earlier, with a more slanted nose and the pics in the price sheet seem to show the noses as more slanted from the angle they were taken. As Don L. points out, they're really E-7's, so I guess that throws the idea of them being used for molds for those mystery shells out the window. A good bunch of threads in any case. As you mentioned, you thought that the old Walthers power truck you have in one of your units was made specifically for this purpose, you were right although StromBecKer doesn't recommend using any certain power truck. In checking the Walthers catalogs, as I indicated I would, I came up with some interesting info. The Walthers H0 Gauge Model Railroad Supplies Catalog No. 4 (Issued October 1939) 1940 Edition lists a conversion kit on the bottom of page 7, with a titled (Rock Island Rocket) picture of the StromBecKer set. It states: "We offer a conversion kit with which the wood model of the Strombecker Co.'s streamline Rocket can be built into a working model of this train. Kit includes power truck, trailing trucks, detail parts and instruction drawing showing how to make the conversion. (No body parts) 5654 (Walthers catalog number) Rocket conversion kit, as above, $12.50. V139 (Walthers catalog number) Wood body kit, $1.00." At the top of the same page is found the power trucks (described as "Power Unit"), although nothing mentioned in its description of its use as found in the conversion kit. There are two Power Trucks listed (both at $10.00 each), # U239 -- 13:1 gear reduction ratio and # U240 -- 6:1 gear reduction ratio. Walthers H0 Gauge Model Railroad Equipment Catalog No. 5 Issued April 1941 still has the conversion kit, and states that it includes power truck # U240 -- price is $14.50. The separate description of the power unit states that it operates on DC 6 - 9 volts. This time there's a photo of the built-up conversion kit; shows a large "S"- shaped steel mounting bar. Another power unit is now shown in this Edition w/ 6-wheel trucks (# U111), available in 13:1 reduction only. Walthers 0 Gauge -- H0 Gauge Catalog For Model Railroaders, Catalog No. 12 July 1946 still lists the # U240 Power Unit (at $15.50), the only H0 power truck listed, with no mention as its possible use in the StromBecKer models (and no mention of its voltage). The StromBecKer conversion kit is discontinued. Walthers H0 Gauge Catalog and Reference Manual (Model Railroad Equipment) 1949 Edition lists two different power trucks, both using 12 volt Pittman motors; # U483 Power Truck (4-wheel unit) w/DC 60 and # U530 Power Truck (6-wheel unit) w/DC 71. Neither one mentions its possible use as a power mechanism for StromBecKer, although the six wheel power truck is said to be designed for use in EMC E-7 passenger diesels, although by this time Walthers was also offering Hobbytown E- 7 zamak castings, even though they didn't mention the manufacturer. In the Walthers H0 Gauge Catalog and Reference Manual (Model Railroad Equipment) 1950 Edition, the same two Power Trucks are offered, but the zamak E-7 shell is now described as Hobbytown. No further mention of StromBecKer is seen. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: > > > I have posted some photos of some of the Strombecker pieces that I have in the photos section. There are pictures of two different E units, one that is undecorated and powered with a vintage Walthers power unit, and one that is in pretty rough shape that is a Dummy which has Lindsay Alco PA trucks on it. The undecorated one runs really well despite its age, it has a weight added to the bottom, and a light in the nose. I also posted a picture of the unbuilt B unit that I have, as well as a picture of a Strombecker Mikado that is in somewhat rough shape. Someone pointed out that I mentioned that it was a Pacific, I was wrong... when I took it out of the box, I realized I was in error. I'll try to get some more pictures of some of the freight that I have posted, Perhaps some of the Passenger cars as well. > ___ > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3120	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/21/2007
Subject: Re: Strombecker Photos

Thanks for all of that information on the Walthers power units... I have one of the two axle ones as well, I have just never gotten around to mounting it in the Rock Island TA that I have. When I first got the TA, it had a Lindsay motor in it, as using those was the fashion at the time... I have wanted to swap in the Walthers unit for it for a while, but you know how getting around to those type of projects is, I'm sure. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3121	From: rcjge	Date: 3/22/2007
Subject: Hobbytown F-3 and Baldwin RF-16 Shark?

Hey Fella's Does anyone know for certain whether HT made a metal RF-16 Shark and/or an F-3 at some point. I've seen them occasionally on Ebay and wondered. It could be the sellers haven't a clue. Thanks for any help you can provide. -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3122	From: Phillip VanderHeyden	Date: 3/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown F-3 and Baldwin RF-16 Shark?

Hobbytown made (and hopefully will continue to make) drives and chassis for a lot of applications. What you're probably seeing on Ebay are Hobbytown drives with a Mantua Shark or a Cary F-3 shell. The Cary F3s are fairly common and still available from Bowser. The Mantua diecast Sharks are a bit harder to find, especially the B-unit shells. The combination of a Hobbytown drive and the diecast shell makes a very heavy locomotive. Very nice if you can get one. phil rcjge wrote: > > Hey Fella's > > Does anyone know for certain whether HT made a metal RF-16 Shark > and/or an F-3 at some point. I've seen them occasionally on Ebay and > wondered. It could be the sellers haven't a clue. > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > -Gareth > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3123	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: PING to Sean

Attachments : Look familiar? Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3124	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean

Looks Great! Don. I like the paint... Is that a custom line? I neaver heard of it...   Unlike me... you actually run your stuff. I have been too busy listing and selling trains to raise funds for the rebuilding of my Mustang, combined with trying to be a good dad (I could always be better) and work full time.... spending time with the wife, trying to keep the fires burning falls in there somewhere...I have no layout, therefore I never get to run my trains. I do finally have a disply shelf up at my work office with about 14-15 of my favorite pieces (flavor of the month anyway). First time I have even had a display in nearly 18 years.   I hated getting rid of it. New haven had C-Liners, but theirs had 2 axle trucks in the  front and three axle in the rear. I did not feel good about cutting the engine up, so now you have it. Maybe I will have to kitbash a plastic one or bight the bullet and spend the $250 - $350 on a brass one. I hate to do that. I would rather buy a steamor electric engine for that. Not a diesel.   ps..  I am excited, I just discovered I have another Busy Bee in my collection. I purchased it some time ago thinking it was a kitbashed logger (which it still looks like one to me) but the base locomotive busy bee is there... I noticed it only after looking at the chassis. There was an extra screw when I compared it to the camelback chassis I just happened to have lying very close to it. I realized then it was a mantua base. When I turned it up-right, I finally saw the busy bee in the engine. I will post pics shortly. It is a neat looking locomotive, that looks even neater now.   Later! Sean   Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Look familiar? Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3125	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean

That a streched C liner? Roger Aultman Don Dellmann wrote: > > > Look familiar? > > Don > > don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > <http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann> > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3126	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean

Stretch c-liner indeed! Humph! It's a Red-Ball/KTM Brass Erie-Built that I got from Sean on eBay a couple months ago. I finally finished the paint & decals last night, just needs a little detail work (window glazing, numbers in the numberboard, a little very light weathering etc.) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] PING to Sean > That a streched C liner? Roger Aultman > > > > Don Dellmann wrote: >> >> >> Look familiar? >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> <http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann> >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> >> Co-owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > > -- > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3127	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean

Sorry Don Looks good. Roger Don Dellmann wrote: > > > Stretch c-liner indeed! Humph! > > It's a Red-Ball/KTM Brass Erie-Built that I got from Sean on eBay a couple > months ago. I finally finished the paint & decals last night, just needs a > little detail work (window glazing, numbers in the numberboard, a little > very light weathering etc.) > > Don > > don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > <http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann> > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Aultman" <raul@... <mailto:raul%40nconnect.net>> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] PING to Sean > > > That a streched C liner? Roger Aultman > > > > > > > > Don Dellmann wrote: > >> > >> > >> Look familiar? > >> > >> Don > >> > >> don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> > <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> > >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > <http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann> > >> <http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > <http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann>> > >> Owner-Moderator > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics> > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics>> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>> > >> Co-owner > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY> > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY>> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > > > > -- > > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm > <http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm> > > > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3128	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean

The Milwaukee Northern is my own railroad.  There actually was an interurban line by that name that went north from Milwaukee along the lakefront, but it was abandoned sometime shortly before WW-II.  My premise is that the line actually survived, and dieselized sometime in the late 1940's, and bought out the rest of the interurban lines (Milwaukee Electric, North Shore) and also expanded their own line as far north as Green Bay, giving me the excuse to run a variety of equipment, both diesel and electric.  My layout is set to represent the fictional line as would have appeared ca. 1961.   As far as the NH units, even cutting up the Erie wouldn't have worked, as the C-liners didn't have the huge radiator grills in the back, and the nose was much shorter.  I believe all the variants of the C-liner had the same carbody, so all you'd need to do to a P-2K unit would be to fabricate a new drive to get the wheel arrangement.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 7:22 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] PING to Sean Looks Great! Don. I like the paint... Is that a custom line? I neaver heard of it...   Unlike me... you actually run your stuff. I have been too busy listing and selling trains to raise funds for the rebuilding of my Mustang, combined with trying to be a good dad (I could always be better) and work full time.... spending time with the wife, trying to keep the fires burning falls in there somewhere...I have no layout, therefore I never get to run my trains. I do finally have a disply shelf up at my work office with about 14-15 of my favorite pieces (flavor of the month anyway). First time I have even had a display in nearly 18 years.   I hated getting rid of it. New haven had C-Liners, but theirs had 2 axle trucks in the  front and three axle in the rear. I did not feel good about cutting the engine up, so now you have it. Maybe I will have to kitbash a plastic one or bight the bullet and spend the $250 - $350 on a brass one. I hate to do that. I would rather buy a steamor electric engine for that. Not a diesel.   ps..  I am excited, I just discovered I have another Busy Bee in my collection. I purchased it some time ago thinking it was a kitbashed logger (which it still looks like one to me) but the base locomotive busy bee is there... I noticed it only after looking at the chassis. There was an extra screw when I compared it to the camelback chassis I just happened to have lying very close to it. I realized then it was a mantua base. When I turned it up-right, I finally saw the busy bee in the engine. I will post pics shortly. It is a neat looking locomotive, that looks even neater now.   Later! Sean   Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Look familiar? Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3129	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean

Don D and list: Quite a concept and a real interest in what might have been. Endless possibilities of scale models and freelancing whatever rolling stock is needed. FWIW.... the list members should know that the MN was merged into the TMER&L empire in 1928. The truncated line remained in electric interurban service into March of 1948. Interesting that MN and TMER&L Rapid Transit Cars could be used on this expanded operation. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3130	From: rcjge	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Old Athearn motor movement

Hey Guys: I have an old Athearn Chassis with a Bowser H-16-44 metal body on top. It's got NWSL wheels and Ernst gears but the amount that the motor moves under torque compromises the smoothness of the start off. I wonder if the motor mount plugs are sheared off as the motor twists under load but can also be slid back and forth on the chassis some. Any ideas? -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3131	From: Glenn Joesten	Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown F-3 and Baldwin RF-16 Shark?

No--these are both probably hybrids.  The F-3 is most likely a Varney with a Hobbytown drive, the Shark is probably a Mantua shell on the Hobbytown drive.    I have had both--currently have several sets of the Varney units--am looking for a plastic F-3B--have a plastic F-3A to trade--  I use the Zamak shells on powered units, plastic on trailing dummies. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: rcjge To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbytown F-3 and Baldwin RF-16 Shark? Hey Fella's Does anyone know for certain whether HT made a metal RF-16 Shark and/or an F-3 at some point. I've seen them occasionally on Ebay and wondered. It could be the sellers haven't a clue. Thanks for any help you can provide. -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3132	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 3/24/2007
Subject: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)

I am in need of the following items and if you have any of them would you get with me off of this group so that you may send them to me: Kadee #204 Metal Minimum Space Adapters Kadee #211 Styrene Gear Box Shims I need several (4 plus) of each and I also need a set of motor brushes for a steam locomotive, which was made by AHM/Rivarossi switcher 0-6-0 that has a missing motor brush, part # P-120-032-0025 and has very small brushes that I can't seem to located at a hobby shop. If you have any of the following items and you would like to mail them to me at 1308 N 4th St Sayre, Ok. 73662 For your help would be great in helping me locate these items since I am not able to my self. Yours Truly, Ms. Maryann Obuch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3133	From: Don Grant	Date: 3/24/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)

IHC has the Rivarossi brushes (#120-032) @ Sale Price of $ 5.25. Good lluck, Don Grant "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@...> wrote: I am in need of the following items and if you have any of them would you get with me off of this group so that you may send them to me: Kadee #204 Metal Minimum Space Adapters Kadee #211 Styrene Gear Box Shims I need several (4 plus) of each and I also need a set of motor brushes for a steam locomotive, which was made by AHM/Rivarossi switcher 0-6-0 that has a missing motor brush, part # P-120-032-0025 and has very small brushes that I can't seem to located at a hobby shop. If you have any of the following items and you would like to mail them to me at 1308 N 4th St Sayre, Ok. 73662 For your help would be great in helping me locate these items since I am not able to my self. Yours Truly, Ms. Maryann Obuch Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3134	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/24/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)

I have one of those Riv 0-6-0's. The brushes they used were, well, odd. Metallic, hollow, they are different from each other. I have no idea if stock units (carbon) would work. One almost looks like a coiled mesh. Best to contact IHC and see. Dave > > I am in need of the following items and if you have any of them would > you get with me off of this group so that you may send them to me: > > Kadee #204 Metal Minimum Space Adapters > Kadee #211 Styrene Gear Box Shims > > I need several (4 plus) of each and I also need a set of motor brushes > for a steam locomotive, which was made by AHM/Rivarossi switcher 0- 6-0 > that has a missing motor brush, part # P-120-032-0025 and has very > small brushes that I can't seem to located at a hobby shop. If you have > any of the following items and you would like to mail them to me at > 1308 N 4th St Sayre, Ok. 73662 For your help would be great in helping > me locate these items since I am not able to my self. > > Yours Truly, Ms. Maryann Obuch >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3135	From: trainliker	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay

I noticed this ebay aution (I am not affiliated with it in any way): http://cgi.ebay.com/INSTANT-HO-TRAIN-COLLECTION-800-CARS-100-ENGINES- MORE_W0QQitemZ290098101691QQcategoryZ484QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem It claims 800 cars and 100 engines and more. This is always the sort of thing I wonder how much it would get if somebody went through the grind of selling piece by piece. Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3136	From: hoscaleuk	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: new member (In the Uk)

I found this site by accident but am interested in HO scale. I have been a modeller since i was about 14 (More years than i care to think about ALthough Ilave in the UK I became interested in American railrods ITs a long story but suffice to say its all the FAULT of the US AF amongst my vintage models adr various Varney pressed Tin? REEEFERS AND BOX CARS ALSO AN "oLD lARY " 4 6 0 AND APLASTIC BODIED DOCKSIE WITH COMPLETE valve gear I also have Athearn pressed Tin? box cars and reefers plus one of the all mteal R D C s As for Mantua L have built from Diecast metal Kits the General the pcific Mikado plus an 0 4 0 tank converted to an 0 4 4 tank . I also have various Reefer s basic plastic body with clip on tin printed sides Thats enough for now Best wishes to all Brie=an Gilbert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3137	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)

RE: I have one of those Riv 0-6-0's. The brushes they used were, well, odd. Metallic, hollow, they are different from each other. I have no idea if stock units (carbon) would work. One almost looks like a coiled mesh. Best to contact IHC and see. Dave   Hi to all of you in the group... I did see the "Metallic, hollow, they are different from each other" kind of brushes in this unit but it won't run as it now is and I have found a place that does have a set and I will be getting in touch with them and will find a set of brushes for this older 0-6-0 that I want to restore and use on my layout... Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3138	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: new member (In the Uk)

Dear Brian,   I'm a retired Air Force (USAF) major but never got to serve in my ancestral homeland...I was all Pacific and the Reserves here in Colorado...except for a brief go in Alabama. Glad to hear we Yank airmen types left an impression; but, in turn, I have Airfix's "RAF Class-Biggin Hill" and "Evening Star" in my kits to do. I actually worked for the Union Pacific Railroad here in Denver for three years (1973-76) after leaving Active Duty. I found this site by accident as well...sort of like Alice in the Looking Glass...or maybe not. In short-welcome!   John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...) hoscaleuk <brianegilbert@...> wrote: I found this site by accident but am interested in HO scale. I have been a modeller since i was about 14 (More years than i care to think about ALthough Ilave in the UK I became interested in American railrods ITs a long story but suffice to say its all the FAULT of the US AF amongst my vintage models adr various Varney pressed Tin? REEEFERS AND BOX CARS ALSO AN "oLD lARY " 4 6 0 AND APLASTIC BODIED DOCKSIE WITH COMPLETE valve gear I also have Athearn pressed Tin? box cars and reefers plus one of the all mteal R D C s As for Mantua L have built from Diecast metal Kits the General the pcific Mikado plus an 0 4 0 tank converted to an 0 4 4 tank . I also have various Reefer s basic plastic body with clip on tin printed sides Thats enough for now Best wishes to all Brie=an Gilbert Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3139	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay

Dear Chuck,   The address did not respond...oh, well. I find such an announcement by this seller a bit suspicious, but that's me. I am curious but not about to spend a lot of time on it.   John Barlow (jdenver@...) trainliker <ckinzer@...> wrote: I noticed this ebay aution (I am not affiliated with it in any way): http://cgi.ebay. com/INSTANT- HO-TRAIN- COLLECTION- 800-CARS- 100-ENGINES- MORE_W0QQitemZ29009 8101691QQcategor yZ484QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem It claims 800 cars and 100 engines and more. This is always the sort of thing I wonder how much it would get if somebody went through the grind of selling piece by piece. Chuck Kinzer Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3140	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean

Attachments : >----- Original Message ----- >From: sean naylor >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 7:22 AM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] PING to Sean (text bobbitted) >I hated getting rid of it. New haven had C-Liners, but theirs had 2 axle >trucks in the front and three axle in the rear. I did not feel good about >cutting the engine up, >so now you have it. Maybe I will have to kitbash a >plastic one or bight the bullet and spend the $250 - $350 on a brass one. I >hate to do that. I would rather buy a >steamor electric engine for that. >Not a diesel. As a further to my last post re: cutting up an Erie to make a C-liner, I think it'd be more trouble than it's worth. As you can see from the attached comparison, about the only thing that's the same are the cab windows. The nose is much shorter, the side detail is enturely different, as arel as the radiator fans. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3141	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)

have you checked with Kadee--Sam Clarke now answers the phone for questions in the afternoons, Pacific time. Check their website. If I'd gotten this inquiry by Thursday evening, I could have stopped in at Kadee--I was a couple of miles form them. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 4:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted) I am in need of the following items and if you have any of them would you get with me off of this group so that you may send them to me: Kadee #204 Metal Minimum Space Adapters Kadee #211 Styrene Gear Box Shims I need several (4 plus) of each and I also need a set of motor brushes for a steam locomotive, which was made by AHM/Rivarossi switcher 0-6-0 that has a missing motor brush, part # P-120-032-0025 and has very small brushes that I can't seem to located at a hobby shop. If you have any of the following items and you would like to mail them to me at 1308 N 4th St Sayre, Ok. 73662 For your help would be great in helping me locate these items since I am not able to my self. Yours Truly, Ms. Maryann Obuch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3142	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: new member (In the Uk)

Welcome to the group. I hope you enjoy your time with us. All those items you mention are exactly the kind of pieces we all know and love. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "hoscaleuk" <brianegilbert@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:29 PM Subject: [vintageHO] new member (In the Uk) >I found this site by accident but am interested in HO scale. > I have been a modeller since i was about 14 (More years than i care to > think about > ALthough Ilave in the UK I became interested in American railrods ITs a > long story but suffice to say its all the FAULT of the US AF > amongst my vintage models adr various Varney pressed Tin? REEEFERS AND > BOX CARS ALSO AN "oLD lARY " 4 6 0 AND APLASTIC BODIED DOCKSIE WITH > COMPLETE valve gear > I also have Athearn pressed Tin? box cars and reefers plus one of the > all mteal R D C s > As for Mantua L have built from Diecast metal Kits the General the > pcific Mikado plus an 0 4 0 tank converted to an 0 4 4 tank . I also > have various Reefer s basic plastic body with clip on tin printed sides > Thats enough for now > Best wishes to all > Brie=an Gilbert > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3143	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)

Lest I forget to ask, what code rail are you using with this old Rivarossi 0-6-0 to be included? Are these deep flanges on the drivers' wheels? Years ago I found that Code 70 and these do not do well together. I think Code 83 to 100 rail would do. Just checking.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) maobuch@... wrote: RE: I have one of those Riv 0-6-0's. The brushes they used were, well, odd. Metallic, hollow, they are different from each other. I have no idea if stock units (carbon) would work. One almost looks like a coiled mesh. Best to contact IHC and see. Dave   Hi to all of you in the group... I did see the "Metallic, hollow, they are different from each other" kind of brushes in this unit but it won't run as it now is and I have found a place that does have a set and I will be getting in touch with them and will find a set of brushes for this older 0-6-0 that I want to restore and use on my layout... Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!! Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3144	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay

290098101691    The listing does exist....   The guy is for real. I think I believe the story. He used to be the ebay user: kensvintagetrains Just last year, it was track6194u. This guy buys alot. I have very rarely outbid him. I average in the low 90's% in winning bids on what I bid on. I have beat him once, I think.   What causes me to doubt what I read in his medical need story is the fact that he has purchased so much (as much as, if not more than me, on average), that I hardly believe this to be his whole collection. I do see some nice pieces, But I do not see some of the real nice pieces he has outbid me on.   What causes me to believe it, his entire user feedback history is through purchases and not selling. He migh therfore be telling the truth as to his need.   I believe the reason why he changes his user so often is because he bids early and people like me know he is willing to really pay and could bid against him, just for the sake of doing it (I have never done it, unless I wanted the item). Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Dear Chuck,   The address did not respond...oh, well. I find such an announcement by this seller a bit suspicious, but that's me. I am curious but not about to spend a lot of time on it.   John Barlow (jdenver@yahoo. com) trainliker <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: I noticed this ebay aution (I am not affiliated with it in any way): http://cgi.ebay. com/INSTANT- HO-TRAIN- COLLECTION- 800-CARS- 100-ENGINES- MORE_W0QQitemZ29009 8101691QQcategor yZ484QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem It claims 800 cars and 100 engines and more. This is always the sort of thing I wonder how much it would get if somebody went through the grind of selling piece by piece. Chuck Kinzer Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3145	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay

You may have to cut and paste the pieces of the entire URL into your URL address box since the email split it. Or... just enter the item number 290098101691 in the ebay search field. Chuck Kinzer Quoting John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>: > Dear Chuck, > > The address did not respond...oh, well. I find such an > announcement by this seller a bit suspicious, but that's me. I am > curious but not about to spend a lot of time on it. > > John Barlow (jdenver@...) > > trainliker <ckinzer@...> wrote: > I noticed this ebay aution (I am not affiliated with it in > any way): > > http://cgi.ebay.com/INSTANT-HO-TRAIN-COLLECTION-800-CARS-100-ENGINES- > MORE_W0QQitemZ290098101691QQcategoryZ484QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > > It claims 800 cars and 100 engines and more. > > This is always the sort of thing I wonder how much it would get if > somebody went through the grind of selling piece by piece. > > Chuck Kinzer > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3146	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: new member (In the Uk)

And a hearty welcome from dreary central NY State, USA as well!   We enjoy hearing about each other's vintage stuff with a few raps about the modern "improved(?)" items as well.   I have some of each and so my best to fiddle with it between fits of etching work.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) hoscaleuk <brianegilbert@...> wrote: I found this site by accident but am interested in HO scale. I have been a modeller since i was about 14 (More years than i care to think about ALthough Ilave in the UK I became interested in American railrods ITs a long story but suffice to say its all the FAULT of the US AF amongst my vintage models adr various Varney pressed Tin? REEEFERS AND BOX CARS ALSO AN "oLD lARY " 4 6 0 AND APLASTIC BODIED DOCKSIE WITH COMPLETE valve gear I also have Athearn pressed Tin? box cars and reefers plus one of the all mteal R D C s As for Mantua L have built from Diecast metal Kits the General the pcific Mikado plus an 0 4 0 tank converted to an 0 4 4 tank . I also have various Reefer s basic plastic body with clip on tin printed sides Thats enough for now Best wishes to all Brie=an Gilbert Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3147	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean

Well Don, That is why I decided to get rid of it. I needed the money anyway for mu Mustang, but either way, I looked at the C-liner drawings I have and I made the right decision to sell it to you. Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: sean naylor >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 7:22 AM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] PING to Sean (text bobbitted) >I hated getting rid of it. New haven had C-Liners, but theirs had 2 axle >trucks in the front and three axle in the rear. I did not feel good about >cutting the engine up, >so now you have it. Maybe I will have to kitbash a >plastic one or bight the bullet and spend the $250 - $350 on a brass one. I >hate to do that. I would rather buy a >steamor electric engine for that. >Not a diesel. As a further to my last post re: cutting up an Erie to make a C-liner, I think it'd be more trouble than it's worth. As you can see from the attached comparison, about the only thing that's the same are the cab windows. The nose is much shorter, the side detail is enturely different, as arel as the radiator fans. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3148	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay

Dear Chuck and Group,   Amazing photos...spanning the decades with that collection. It is regretable that he feels he has to liquidate...really sad.   John ckinzer@... wrote: You may have to cut and paste the pieces of the entire URL into your URL address box since the email split it. Or... just enter the item number 290098101691 in the ebay search field. Chuck Kinzer Quoting John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com>: > Dear Chuck, > > The address did not respond...oh, well. I find such an > announcement by this seller a bit suspicious, but that's me. I am > curious but not about to spend a lot of time on it. > > John Barlow (jdenver@yahoo. com) > > trainliker <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: > I noticed this ebay aution (I am not affiliated with it in > any way): > > http://cgi.ebay. com/INSTANT- HO-TRAIN- COLLECTION- 800-CARS- 100-ENGINES- > MORE_W0QQitemZ29009 8101691QQcategor yZ484QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem > > It claims 800 cars and 100 engines and more. > > This is always the sort of thing I wonder how much it would get if > somebody went through the grind of selling piece by piece. > > Chuck Kinzer > > Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3149	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay

What bothers me in a lot like this is he describes it as being a lot of vinatge and brass, yet the only real vintage I see is some varney locomotives that look pretty sad.  The freight cars on the shelves look to be mostly tyco, AHM and botchman.   Sounds like a LOT of money for what looks like the guy's "scrapbox".   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY     ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay 290098101691    The listing does exist....   The guy is for real. I think I believe the story. He used to be the ebay user: kensvintagetrains Just last year, it was track6194u. This guy buys alot. I have very rarely outbid him. I average in the low 90's% in winning bids on what I bid on. I have beat him once, I think.   What causes me to doubt what I read in his medical need story is the fact that he has purchased so much (as much as, if not more than me, on average), that I hardly believe this to be his whole collection. I do see some nice pieces, But I do not see some of the real nice pieces he has outbid me on.   What causes me to believe it, his entire user feedback history is through purchases and not selling. He migh therfore be telling the truth as to his need.   I believe the reason why he changes his user so often is because he bids early and people like me know he is willing to really pay and could bid against him, just for the sake of doing it (I have never done it, unless I wanted the item). Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Dear Chuck,   The address did not respond...oh, well. I find such an announcement by this seller a bit suspicious, but that's me. I am curious but not about to spend a lot of time on it.   John Barlow (jdenver@yahoo. com) trainliker <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: I noticed this ebay aution (I am not affiliated with it in any way): http://cgi.ebay. com/INSTANT- HO-TRAIN- COLLECTION- 800-CARS- 100-ENGINES- MORE_W0QQitemZ29009 8101691QQcategor yZ484QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem It claims 800 cars and 100 engines and more. This is always the sort of thing I wonder how much it would get if somebody went through the grind of selling piece by piece. Chuck Kinzer Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3150	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)

For that matter, I checked, they're listed as stock at Walthers, I get over there about once every few weeks (on allowance day <G>).  I wrote Maryann off list.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted) have you checked with Kadee--Sam Clarke now answers the phone for questions in the afternoons, Pacific time. Check their website. If I'd gotten this inquiry by Thursday evening, I could have stopped in at Kadee--I was a couple of miles form them. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 4:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted) I am in need of the following items and if you have any of them would you get with me off of this group so that you may send them to me: Kadee #204 Metal Minimum Space Adapters Kadee #211 Styrene Gear Box Shims I need several (4 plus) of each and I also need a set of motor brushes for a steam locomotive, which was made by AHM/Rivarossi switcher 0-6-0 that has a missing motor brush, part # P-120-032-0025 and has very small brushes that I can't seem to located at a hobby shop. If you have any of the following items and you would like to mail them to me at 1308 N 4th St Sayre, Ok. 73662 For your help would be great in helping me locate these items since I am not able to my self. Yours Truly, Ms. Maryann Obuch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3151	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay

This is what I am saying.... I have been outbid by the guy many times. Hundreds of bucks at a pop. One in particular was a lot of all penn line and varney.... One was a 4-4-4-4 painted up really nice. It was in a group of a bunch of other nice stuff. (My max bid was $470 for that lot  of  10? engines) I do not see much nice stuff in this lot. Particularly the T1. My guess is that it is his cast-offs. He has beat me on some nice pieces and I do no see them.... Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: What bothers me in a lot like this is he describes it as being a lot of vinatge and brass, yet the only real vintage I see is some varney locomotives that look pretty sad.  The freight cars on the shelves look to be mostly tyco, AHM and botchman.   Sounds like a LOT of money for what looks like the guy's "scrapbox".   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY     ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay 290098101691    The listing does exist....   The guy is for real. I think I believe the story. He used to be the ebay user: kensvintagetrains Just last year, it was track6194u. This guy buys alot. I have very rarely outbid him. I average in the low 90's% in winning bids on what I bid on. I have beat him once, I think.   What causes me to doubt what I read in his medical need story is the fact that he has purchased so much (as much as, if not more than me, on average), that I hardly believe this to be his whole collection. I do see some nice pieces, But I do not see some of the real nice pieces he has outbid me on.   What causes me to believe it, his entire user feedback history is through purchases and not selling. He migh therfore be telling the truth as to his need.   I believe the reason why he changes his user so often is because he bids early and people like me know he is willing to really pay and could bid against him, just for the sake of doing it (I have never done it, unless I wanted the item). Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Chuck,   The address did not respond...oh, well. I find such an announcement by this seller a bit suspicious, but that's me. I am curious but not about to spend a lot of time on it.   John Barlow (jdenver@yahoo. com) trainliker <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: I noticed this ebay aution (I am not affiliated with it in any way): http://cgi.ebay. com/INSTANT- HO-TRAIN- COLLECTION- 800-CARS- 100-ENGINES- MORE_W0QQitemZ29009 8101691QQcategor yZ484QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem It claims 800 cars and 100 engines and more. This is always the sort of thing I wonder how much it would get if somebody went through the grind of selling piece by piece. Chuck Kinzer Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3152	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Need help identifying

May need pictures on this. I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined passenger cars. The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with center sill and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the end is gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. There is a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, these have horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the one end that's missing. The missing end has the brakewheel. Next, freight cars. I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to be a metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the frame (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail casy in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast truck bolster. Has Mantua couplers. Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, same trucks, couplers. I am thinking Mantuas. I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some have tin floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some Mantua. Globe had similar frames to some of these. I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, wood floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal sides, vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below floor. Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, but I can make something to work. Any ideas on manufacturer? Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like cardstock embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta find glossy dark green. Varney, right? I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show 4- wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. Thanks. More later. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3153	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 11:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Need help identifying > May need pictures on this. > I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined > passenger cars. > The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. > Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with center sill > and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the end is > gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. There is > a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, these have > horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). > I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the one > end that's missing. > The missing end has the brakewheel. > Pictures would help, but they sure SOUND like the original Globe/Athearn models before they went to the one-piece body. > Next, freight cars. > I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to be a > metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the frame > (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. > Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail casy > in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast truck > bolster. Has Mantua couplers. > Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, same > trucks, couplers. > I am thinking Mantuas. Doid you look in my Mantua gfolder in the photos section? There's a couple Mantuas there. Don't know about the hopper, could be Ulrich. > > I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some have tin > floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some Mantua. > Globe had similar frames to some of these. > Those need pics. > I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, wood > floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal sides, > vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below floor. > Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, but I > can make something to work. > Any ideas on manufacturer? That sounds like Ulrich, again, there's one in my Ulrich album (My albums are all at the end, I put a "z" in front of my name so they're all together at the end out of everyone else's way.) > > Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like cardstock > embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta find > glossy dark green. > Varney, right? Probably, again need pics. > I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show 4- > wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. > The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. > Thanks. > More later. > Dave They did do a full 80' pullman after the war. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3154	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: IT IS A REAL COLLECTION. Re: [vintageHO] A big, BIG lot of vintage

Hey All,   Ken  (the owner of the collection) just emailed me some additional pictures. I believe it is his entire collection. It might be worth it and then some.   Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: What bothers me in a lot like this is he describes it as being a lot of vinatge and brass, yet the only real vintage I see is some varney locomotives that look pretty sad.  The freight cars on the shelves look to be mostly tyco, AHM and botchman.   Sounds like a LOT of money for what looks like the guy's "scrapbox".   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY     ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay 290098101691    The listing does exist....   The guy is for real. I think I believe the story. He used to be the ebay user: kensvintagetrains Just last year, it was track6194u. This guy buys alot. I have very rarely outbid him. I average in the low 90's% in winning bids on what I bid on. I have beat him once, I think.   What causes me to doubt what I read in his medical need story is the fact that he has purchased so much (as much as, if not more than me, on average), that I hardly believe this to be his whole collection. I do see some nice pieces, But I do not see some of the real nice pieces he has outbid me on.   What causes me to believe it, his entire user feedback history is through purchases and not selling. He migh therfore be telling the truth as to his need.   I believe the reason why he changes his user so often is because he bids early and people like me know he is willing to really pay and could bid against him, just for the sake of doing it (I have never done it, unless I wanted the item). Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Chuck,   The address did not respond...oh, well. I find such an announcement by this seller a bit suspicious, but that's me. I am curious but not about to spend a lot of time on it.   John Barlow (jdenver@yahoo. com) trainliker <ckinzer@fix. net> wrote: I noticed this ebay aution (I am not affiliated with it in any way): http://cgi.ebay. com/INSTANT- HO-TRAIN- COLLECTION- 800-CARS- 100-ENGINES- MORE_W0QQitemZ29009 8101691QQcategor yZ484QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem It claims 800 cars and 100 engines and more. This is always the sort of thing I wonder how much it would get if somebody went through the grind of selling piece by piece. Chuck Kinzer Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3155	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)

RE: Lest I forget to ask, what code rail are you using with this old Rivarossi 0-6-0 to be included? Are these deep flanges on the drivers' wheels? Years ago I found that Code 70 and these do not do well together. I think Code 83 to 100 rail would do. Just checking. John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Hi to all of you in the group.  Now as to this question as the 0-6-0 and size of rails that we're using on our layout? I have used code #100 as well as code #70 but my mainline trackage is code 100 & siding code 83 or 70... I will look at the drive wheels on this old 0-6-0 steam loco and get back with the group... For I feel they are deep kind, but without looking it only would be a guess!...   PS: I have found a set of brushes for this loco... It had a missing brush and I am un-sure if someone had put rolled up "screenwire" inside thebrush holder, for it wouldn't run at all with that in place, just needing a brush to restore the loco into running order...   I am still looking for some Kadee #204's as well as a few of the Kadee #211's... So if anyone has any that they would like to mail to me, send them to me at 1308 N 4th St, Sayre, Ok. 73662... For I will be glade to have them...   Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can See what you are saying to me !!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3156	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

The 2-bay is similar in length to the Ulrich N&W 22035, but the end extensions aren't there, this is cast in one piece, the "extended side" is a bulging between vertical ribs on the side (looks like panels stuck on). I need to ID these solid trucks first, then I'll be closer. Take photos this afternoon. Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 11:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Need help identifying > > > > May need pictures on this. > > I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined > > passenger cars. > > The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. > > Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with center sill > > and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the end is > > gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. There is > > a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, these have > > horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). > > I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the one > > end that's missing. > > The missing end has the brakewheel. > > > Pictures would help, but they sure SOUND like the original Globe/Athearn > models before they went to the one-piece body. > > > Next, freight cars. > > I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to be a > > metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the frame > > (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. > > Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail casy > > in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast truck > > bolster. Has Mantua couplers. > > Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, same > > trucks, couplers. > > I am thinking Mantuas. > > Doid you look in my Mantua gfolder in the photos section? There's a couple > Mantuas there. Don't know about the hopper, could be Ulrich. > > > > I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some have tin > > floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some Mantua. > > Globe had similar frames to some of these. > > > Those need pics. > > > I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, wood > > floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal sides, > > vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below floor. > > Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, but I > > can make something to work. > > Any ideas on manufacturer? > > That sounds like Ulrich, again, there's one in my Ulrich album (My albums > are all at the end, I put a "z" in front of my name so they're all together > at the end out of everyone else's way.) > > > > > Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like cardstock > > embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta find > > glossy dark green. > > Varney, right? > > Probably, again need pics. > > > I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show 4- > > wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. > > The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. > > Thanks. > > More later. > > Dave > > They did do a full 80' pullman after the war. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3157	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

RedBall. Yours is CNJ 49667. Dave > > The 2-bay is similar in length to the Ulrich N&W 22035, but the end > extensions aren't there, this is cast in one piece, the "extended > side" is a bulging between vertical ribs on the side (looks like > panels stuck on). > I need to ID these solid trucks first, then I'll be closer. > Take photos this afternoon. > Dave > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 11:20 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Need help identifying > > > > > > > May need pictures on this. > > > I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined > > > passenger cars. > > > The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. > > > Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with center > sill > > > and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the end > is > > > gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. There > is > > > a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, these > have > > > horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). > > > I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the one > > > end that's missing. > > > The missing end has the brakewheel. > > > > > Pictures would help, but they sure SOUND like the original > Globe/Athearn > > models before they went to the one-piece body. > > > > > Next, freight cars. > > > I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to be > a > > > metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the frame > > > (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. > > > Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail > casy > > > in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast truck > > > bolster. Has Mantua couplers. > > > Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, same > > > trucks, couplers. > > > I am thinking Mantuas. > > > > Doid you look in my Mantua gfolder in the photos section? There's > a couple > > Mantuas there. Don't know about the hopper, could be Ulrich. > > > > > > I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some have > tin > > > floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some Mantua. > > > Globe had similar frames to some of these. > > > > > Those need pics. > > > > > I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, wood > > > floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal > sides, > > > vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below > floor. > > > Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, > but I > > > can make something to work. > > > Any ideas on manufacturer? > > > > That sounds like Ulrich, again, there's one in my Ulrich album (My > albums > > are all at the end, I put a "z" in front of my name so they're all > together > > at the end out of everyone else's way.) > > > > > > > > Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like cardstock > > > embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta find > > > glossy dark green. > > > Varney, right? > > > > Probably, again need pics. > > > > > I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show 4- > > > wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. > > > The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. > > > Thanks. > > > More later. > > > Dave > > > > They did do a full 80' pullman after the war. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3158	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

The composite gon looks like a 52'6" Ulrich, except the ends of the sides do not have slots for the end pieces, and the end steps are not part of the casting, nor are there any marks where they "used" to be. Still searching those trucks. > > The 2-bay is similar in length to the Ulrich N&W 22035, but the end > extensions aren't there, this is cast in one piece, the "extended > side" is a bulging between vertical ribs on the side (looks like > panels stuck on). > I need to ID these solid trucks first, then I'll be closer. > Take photos this afternoon. > Dave > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 11:20 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Need help identifying > > > > > > > May need pictures on this. > > > I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined > > > passenger cars. > > > The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. > > > Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with center > sill > > > and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the end > is > > > gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. There > is > > > a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, these > have > > > horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). > > > I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the one > > > end that's missing. > > > The missing end has the brakewheel. > > > > > Pictures would help, but they sure SOUND like the original > Globe/Athearn > > models before they went to the one-piece body. > > > > > Next, freight cars. > > > I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to be > a > > > metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the frame > > > (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. > > > Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail > casy > > > in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast truck > > > bolster. Has Mantua couplers. > > > Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, same > > > trucks, couplers. > > > I am thinking Mantuas. > > > > Doid you look in my Mantua gfolder in the photos section? There's > a couple > > Mantuas there. Don't know about the hopper, could be Ulrich. > > > > > > I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some have > tin > > > floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some Mantua. > > > Globe had similar frames to some of these. > > > > > Those need pics. > > > > > I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, wood > > > floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal > sides, > > > vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below > floor. > > > Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, > but I > > > can make something to work. > > > Any ideas on manufacturer? > > > > That sounds like Ulrich, again, there's one in my Ulrich album (My > albums > > are all at the end, I put a "z" in front of my name so they're all > together > > at the end out of everyone else's way.) > > > > > > > > Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like cardstock > > > embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta find > > > glossy dark green. > > > Varney, right? > > > > Probably, again need pics. > > > > > I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show 4- > > > wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. > > > The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. > > > Thanks. > > > More later. > > > Dave > > > > They did do a full 80' pullman after the war. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3159	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Unknown tank and passenger car

I put up an album so named. Any ideas on who made the tank, trucks, or passenger cars? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3160	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Unknown tank and passenger car

The tank car frame appears to be a Walthers, I have a kit with a wooden tank. Perhaps some early kitmingling? Roger Aultman curmudgeon wrote: > > > I put up an album so named. > Any ideas on who made the tank, trucks, or passenger cars? > > Thanks. > Dave > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3161	From: oahurailway	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: HOBBYTOWN OF BOSTON update....

This just in: A query made to the former Hobbytown of Boston (Bear Loco) was kindly returned with the following response. "The Hobbytown of Boston web site has been closed. We are currently conducting inventory in preparation for the sale of the business and personal retirement. Parts and kits are not available at this time. Machined drive train parts such as wheel sets, gears and geared shafts are out of stock and will not be available until production resumes under new ownership. Our previous post office box has also been closed. If and when the company is sold, the new owner will announce when production and sales will resume. Thank you for your past support." Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3162	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: HOBBYTOWN OF BOSTON update....

Another opportunity for Bowser/English????  Lets hope the business gets sold to someone who can-and will-keep the doors open.  It would be a shame to loose this product line.  The hobby has tons of “ready to roll” now; the kit business appears to be disappearing.  JerryG.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of oahurailway Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 4:30 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] HOBBYTOWN OF BOSTON update....   This just in: A query made to the former Hobbytown of Boston (Bear Loco) was kindly returned with the following response. "The Hobbytown of Boston web site has been closed. We are currently conducting inventory in preparation for the sale of the business and personal retirement. Parts and kits are not available at this time. Machined drive train parts such as wheel sets, gears and geared shafts are out of stock and will not be available until production resumes under new ownership. Our previous post office box has also been closed. If and when the company is sold, the new owner will announce when production and sales will resume. Thank you for your past support." Ken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3163	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

Attachments : ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > The 2-bay is similar in length to the Ulrich N&W 22035, but the end > extensions aren't there, this is cast in one piece, the "extended > side" is a bulging between vertical ribs on the side (looks like > panels stuck on). > I need to ID these solid trucks first, then I'll be closer. > Take photos this afternoon. > Dave The "bulging side panels" sounds like a Red Ball Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3164	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

I just reposted that picture in response to your last post! Near as I can tell that's a Red-Ball. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 11:43 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > RedBall. > Yours is CNJ 49667. > Dave > >> >> The 2-bay is similar in length to the Ulrich N&W 22035, but the > end >> extensions aren't there, this is cast in one piece, the "extended >> side" is a bulging between vertical ribs on the side (looks like >> panels stuck on). >> I need to ID these solid trucks first, then I'll be closer. >> Take photos this afternoon. >> Dave >> >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> >> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 11:20 PM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Need help identifying >> > >> > >> > > May need pictures on this. >> > > I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined >> > > passenger cars. >> > > The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. >> > > Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with > center >> sill >> > > and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the > end >> is >> > > gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. > There >> is >> > > a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, > these >> have >> > > horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). >> > > I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the > one >> > > end that's missing. >> > > The missing end has the brakewheel. >> > > >> > Pictures would help, but they sure SOUND like the original >> Globe/Athearn >> > models before they went to the one-piece body. >> > >> > > Next, freight cars. >> > > I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to > be >> a >> > > metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the > frame >> > > (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. >> > > Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail >> casy >> > > in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast > truck >> > > bolster. Has Mantua couplers. >> > > Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, > same >> > > trucks, couplers. >> > > I am thinking Mantuas. >> > >> > Doid you look in my Mantua gfolder in the photos section? > There's >> a couple >> > Mantuas there. Don't know about the hopper, could be Ulrich. >> > > >> > > I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some > have >> tin >> > > floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some Mantua. >> > > Globe had similar frames to some of these. >> > > >> > Those need pics. >> > >> > > I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, > wood >> > > floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal >> sides, >> > > vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below >> floor. >> > > Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, >> but I >> > > can make something to work. >> > > Any ideas on manufacturer? >> > >> > That sounds like Ulrich, again, there's one in my Ulrich album > (My >> albums >> > are all at the end, I put a "z" in front of my name so they're > all >> together >> > at the end out of everyone else's way.) >> > >> > > >> > > Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like > cardstock >> > > embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta > find >> > > glossy dark green. >> > > Varney, right? >> > >> > Probably, again need pics. >> > >> > > I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show > 4- >> > > wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. >> > > The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. >> > > Thanks. >> > > More later. >> > > Dave >> > >> > They did do a full 80' pullman after the war. >> > >> > Don >> > >> > don.dellmann@ >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> > Owner-Moderator >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> > Co-owner >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3165	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Unknown tank and passenger car

Passenger car is definitely Globe/Athearn, I have a postal that's identical waiting to be restored. I might even have an extra coach that you could cut the end out of. I have some of those same trucks, I haven't been able to identify them, but I'm wondering if maybe they're Megow? Tank car I can't help you with. I notice Roger thought the underframe was Walthers, could be. It doesn't look like my Mantuas. You mentioned in another post differences in the Ulrich 52' gon, they could have changed over the years, for example the one I have now has stamped metal ends, the one I remember building many years ago I THINK had cast ends. (Of course that's from memory, they say that's one of the first to things that go when you get old, I can't remember what the other one is.) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 2:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Unknown tank and passenger car >I put up an album so named. > Any ideas on who made the tank, trucks, or passenger cars? > > Thanks. > Dave > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3166	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

those passenger cars could be early Athearn (Globe)--do they have corrugated sides and roofs?  Length like current Athearn mid-length cars?  Look like may have been made up of separate roof,. floor, and ends? with sort of snap-locks for the floor?  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Need help identifying May need pictures on this. I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined passenger cars. The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with center sill and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the end is gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. There is a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, these have horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the one end that's missing. The missing end has the brakewheel. Next, freight cars. I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to be a metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the frame (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail casy in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast truck bolster. Has Mantua couplers. Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, same trucks, couplers. I am thinking Mantuas. I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some have tin floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some Mantua. Globe had similar frames to some of these. I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, wood floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal sides, vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below floor. Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, but I can make something to work. Any ideas on manufacturer? Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like cardstock embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta find glossy dark green. Varney, right? I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show 4- wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. Thanks. More later. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3167	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

Yes, yes and yes. The issue for me was all the Athearn I have ever seen were one-piece bodies, and a "floor" that was a tub that slipped up inside. This floor is flat. Plus, didn't Athearn have weights? Couple of small clip looking things inboard of the trucks. I see the offer for an end, I game, but I hate to take a good unit for parts. There are two different ends, this one missing I think has the brakewheel, but I don't really care which. Dave > > those passenger cars could be early Athearn (Globe)--do they have corrugated sides and roofs? Length like current Athearn mid-length cars? Look like may have been made up of separate roof,. floor, and ends? with sort of snap-locks for the floor? gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Need help identifying > > > May need pictures on this. > I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined > passenger cars. > The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. > Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with center sill > and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the end is > gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. There is > a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, these have > horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). > I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the one > end that's missing. > The missing end has the brakewheel. > > Next, freight cars. > I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to be a > metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the frame > (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. > Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail casy > in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast truck > bolster. Has Mantua couplers. > Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, same > trucks, couplers. > I am thinking Mantuas. > > I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some have tin > floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some Mantua. > Globe had similar frames to some of these. > > I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, wood > floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal sides, > vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below floor. > Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, but I > can make something to work. > Any ideas on manufacturer? > > Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like cardstock > embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta find > glossy dark green. > Varney, right? > I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show 4- > wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. > The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. > Thanks. > More later. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3168	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

Globe passenger car kits show up on ebay all the time for pretty low dollars. In the last 30 days: 2 built and 1 unbuilt sold for the princely sum of $1.25. 4 built cars for a buy it now for $20.00 Currently: 9 Pennsylvania passenger cars, bidding at $9.99 2 Santa Fe, 1 built, 1 unbilt, bidding $6.99 Chuck Kinzer Quoting curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...>: > Yes, yes and yes. > The issue for me was all the Athearn I have ever seen were one-piece > bodies, and a "floor" that was a tub that slipped up inside. > This floor is flat. > Plus, didn't Athearn have weights? > Couple of small clip looking things inboard of the trucks. > > I see the offer for an end, I game, but I hate to take a good unit > for parts. > > There are two different ends, this one missing I think has the > brakewheel, but I don't really care which. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3169	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

And there is a vestibule wall in the early kits that is no longer in the current models of these Athearn cars.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of curmudgeon Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:37 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying   Yes, yes and yes. The issue for me was all the Athearn I have ever seen were one-piece bodies, and a "floor" that was a tub that slipped up inside. This floor is flat. Plus, didn't Athearn have weights? Couple of small clip looking things inboard of the trucks. I see the offer for an end, I game, but I hate to take a good unit for parts. There are two different ends, this one missing I think has the brakewheel, but I don't really care which. Dave > > those passenger cars could be early Athearn (Globe)--do they have corrugated sides and roofs? Length like current Athearn mid-length cars? Look like may have been made up of separate roof,. floor, and ends? with sort of snap-locks for the floor? gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Need help identifying > > > May need pictures on this. > I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined > passenger cars. > The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. > Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with center sill > and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the end is > gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. There is > a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, these have > horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). > I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the one > end that's missing. > The missing end has the brakewheel. > > Next, freight cars. > I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to be a > metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the frame > (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. > Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail casy > in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast truck > bolster. Has Mantua couplers. > Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, same > trucks, couplers. > I am thinking Mantuas. > > I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some have tin > floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some w:st="on">Mantua . > Globe had similar frames to some of these. > > I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, wood > floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal sides, > vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below floor. > Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, but I > can make something to work. > Any ideas on manufacturer? > > Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like cardstock > embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta find > glossy dark green. > Varney, right? > I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show 4- > wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. > The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. > Thanks. > More later. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3170	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

NMRA has a tape-slide clinic on making parts using dental materials--by Bob Chait in Miami.  Some materials lend themselves to one-shot reproductions.  Some look strange in "plate pink" but cement in with common plastic cements.   This looks like make an impression of the good end, then fill it with the pink acrylic plastic.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 4:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying Yes, yes and yes. The issue for me was all the Athearn I have ever seen were one-piece bodies, and a "floor" that was a tub that slipped up inside. This floor is flat. Plus, didn't Athearn have weights? Couple of small clip looking things inboard of the trucks. I see the offer for an end, I game, but I hate to take a good unit for parts. There are two different ends, this one missing I think has the brakewheel, but I don't really care which. Dave > > those passenger cars could be early Athearn (Globe)--do they have corrugated sides and roofs? Length like current Athearn mid-length cars? Look like may have been made up of separate roof,. floor, and ends? with sort of snap-locks for the floor? gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Need help identifying > > > May need pictures on this. > I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined > passenger cars. > The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. > Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with center sill > and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the end is > gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. There is > a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, these have > horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). > I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the one > end that's missing. > The missing end has the brakewheel. > > Next, freight cars. > I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to be a > metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the frame > (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. > Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail casy > in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast truck > bolster. Has Mantua couplers. > Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, same > trucks, couplers. > I am thinking Mantuas. > > I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some have tin > floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some Mantua. > Globe had similar frames to some of these. > > I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, wood > floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal sides, > vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below floor. > Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, but I > can make something to work. > Any ideas on manufacturer? > > Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like cardstock > embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta find > glossy dark green. > Varney, right? > I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show 4- > wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. > The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. > Thanks. > More later. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3171	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

I don't recall Athearn having weights at that time. ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 4:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying Yes, yes and yes. The issue for me was all the Athearn I have ever seen were one-piece bodies, and a "floor" that was a tub that slipped up inside. This floor is flat. Plus, didn't Athearn have weights? Couple of small clip looking things inboard of the trucks. I see the offer for an end, I game, but I hate to take a good unit for parts. There are two different ends, this one missing I think has the brakewheel, but I don't really care which. Dave > > those passenger cars could be early Athearn (Globe)--do they have corrugated sides and roofs? Length like current Athearn mid-length cars? Look like may have been made up of separate roof,. floor, and ends? with sort of snap-locks for the floor? gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Need help identifying > > > May need pictures on this. > I have 4 plastic (as in ALL plastic, no weights) streamilined > passenger cars. > The truck bolsters LOOK like the Globe F7-A I have. > Thes are silver, no lettering, floor/frame is black with center sill > and cross braces cast in. Glued together (no pop-apart), the end is > gone on one, there is no "deep" frame sides like Athearn. There is > a "wide spot" on the ends of the sills for coupler mount, these have > horn-hooks screwed in (don't work). > I guess I need to know who made them to see if I can find the one > end that's missing. > The missing end has the brakewheel. > > Next, freight cars. > I have a Sinclair tank, unpainted cast frame, what appears to be a > metal tank, no handrails, wire around the ends and into the frame > (hold-down straps), cast one-piece (brass?) dome and walkways. > Trucks are cast pot-or white-metal, brass wheels, flat detail casy > in, solid, no openings cut out, pressed onto a similar cast truck > bolster. Has Mantua couplers. > Then, a cast two-bay extended side hopper, one heavy s-0-b, same > trucks, couplers. > I am thinking Mantuas. > > I have a bunch of box and reefers, mostly paper sides, some have tin > floors and center sills, some dummy couplers, some Mantua. > Globe had similar frames to some of these. > > I have a, well, I think they are "composite gondolas", long, wood > floor, later sprung trucks, Mantua couplers, cast white-metal sides, > vertical and angled bracing, and a "sowbelly", all open below floor. > Glue has failed, sides are off, ends do not appear to be here, but I > can make something to work. > Any ideas on manufacturer? > > Two wood heavyweights, Varney 6-wheel trucks, look like cardstock > embossed sides with windows. Needs some nick touch-up, gotta find > glossy dark green. > Varney, right? > I found the cars in the 1941 catalog, but the parts lists show 4- > wheel trucks, and these cars look longer than those shown. > The trucks say "Varney", and "Copyright G. Varney" on them. > Thanks. > More later. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3172	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

Dave I have an Athearn Burlington observation car(unbuilt kit) that is missing the left side, therefore is not real buildable.  I have the "end" with the handbrake, missing the wheel, as well as the inner bulkhead for that end. If you would like to have that end, send me an address and I will mail it to you.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Yes, yes and yes. The issue for me was all the Athearn I have ever seen were one-piece bodies, and a "floor" that was a tub that slipped up inside. This floor is flat. Plus, didn't Athearn have weights? Couple of small clip looking things inboard of the trucks. I see the offer for an end, I game, but I hate to take a good unit for parts. There are two different ends, this one missing I think has the brakewheel, but I don't really care which. Dave Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3173	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re-kitting

Well, the Walthers/whatever tank and the RedBall hopper are being re- kitted. All apart, the hopper I thought was one piece isn't. There was even a full wood floor. That's gone, glass-beaded, filed square and to size, glueing now. The tank, filed the angles off the frame, made steps for the ends, glassed it, and the tank and dome. Getting close to paint, going to add the tank handrails (I knew there was a reason I saved all those old Mantua boiler handrail pins), got brakewheels, no decals planned yet, want to get them "right" with little or no washers between the trucks and frames. Pix when done. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3174	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: Glass beading...I need the set-up.... Dave! or anyone else...

Ok...Dave!   Now I am jealous and need to know where I can get a mini blast set-up   Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Well, the Walthers/whatever tank and the RedBall hopper are being re- kitted. All apart, the hopper I thought was one piece isn't. There was even a full wood floor. That's gone, glass-beaded, filed square and to size, glueing now. The tank, filed the angles off the frame, made steps for the ends, glassed it, and the tank and dome. Getting close to paint, going to add the tank handrails (I knew there was a reason I saved all those old Mantua boiler handrail pins), got brakewheels, no decals planned yet, want to get them "right" with little or no washers between the trucks and frames. Pix when done. Dave Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3175	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean

----- Original Message ----- From: <DLeistikow@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] PING to Sean > Don D and list: Quite a concept and a real interest in what might have > been. Endless possibilities of scale models and freelancing whatever > rolling stock is needed. > > FWIW.... the list members should know that the MN was merged into the > TMER&L empire in 1928. The truncated line remained in electric > interurban service into March of 1948. Interesting that MN and TMER&L > Rapid Transit Cars could be used on this expanded operation. > > Don L. But I'm NOT going to do my Electroliner in MN colors <G>. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3176	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: Glass beading...I need the set-up.... Dave! or anyone else...

This one ain't small. When you did auto repair for 30+ years, and get to know a couple of machine shops, they let you use this thing you can fit a washing machine in.....or a 427 block..... > > Ok...Dave! > > Now I am jealous and need to know where I can get a mini blast set-up > > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Well, the Walthers/whatever tank and the RedBall hopper are being re- > kitted. > All apart, the hopper I thought was one piece isn't. > There was even a full wood floor. > That's gone, glass-beaded, filed square and to size, glueing now. > The tank, filed the angles off the frame, made steps for the ends, > glassed it, and the tank and dome. > Getting close to paint, going to add the tank handrails (I knew there > was a reason I saved all those old Mantua boiler handrail pins), got > brakewheels, no decals planned yet, want to get them "right" with > little or no washers between the trucks and frames. > > Pix when done. > Dave > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3177	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: Glass beading...I need the set-up.... Dave! or anyone else...

This one ain't small. When you did auto repair for 30+ years, and get to know a couple of machine shops, they let you use this thing you can fit a washing machine in.....or a 427 block..... > > Ok...Dave! > > Now I am jealous and need to know where I can get a mini blast set-up > > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Well, the Walthers/whatever tank and the RedBall hopper are being re- > kitted. > All apart, the hopper I thought was one piece isn't. > There was even a full wood floor. > That's gone, glass-beaded, filed square and to size, glueing now. > The tank, filed the angles off the frame, made steps for the ends, > glassed it, and the tank and dome. > Getting close to paint, going to add the tank handrails (I knew there > was a reason I saved all those old Mantua boiler handrail pins), got > brakewheels, no decals planned yet, want to get them "right" with > little or no washers between the trucks and frames. > > Pix when done. > Dave > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3178	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean

Don D and list: Ha, Ha.... I liked that answer. No, I would not expect that you would paint a Liner in MN colors. However, I did use a line drawing of TMER&L car 1126, made some photocopies and used color pencils experimenting with various color combinations, such as Orange with Maroon letterboard (MILW or Speedrail) or Yellow with Green letterboard (CNW). The results are most interesting. Just enjoy the hobby, anyway you can! Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3179	From: Chris Smith	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3180	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there.   John Chris Smith <cgls@...> wrote: Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3181	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Dear Group,   I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears further review.   John John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there.   John Chris Smith <cgls@btinternet. com> wrote: Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3182	From: Chris Smith	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3183	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such

I've got....3 or 4 of these in my "stuff". Some aren't too bad, one is HORRIBLE. What's weird on this one, it's a silver GN box, embossed paper sides and ends, wood roof (with the standard metal stiffener bars), wood floor and center sill, no bolsters (trucks screwed right to floor), but a BIG plastic brake wheel and assembly on the "B" end, and plastic end beams! I mean, why all wood and paper, with those parts plastic? Anyway, the bottom edges are all bent under, I am going to epoxy some .080" strips to the sides and floor to hold them in place, then grind and file the plastic to the contour of the sides, using the plastic to replace a couple of bits that are missing. Are these things really worth the effort? I know they're "old", but how old? I am going to spend a LOT of time doing this one, in addition to re- kitting the Walther's tank (back on it's wheels) and the RedBall hopper (ready for new slope sheets) and was just looking to see what folks thought. I mean, I can do it...guaranteed.....and it will look better than original when I'm done..... Got another one, a stock car. Wood floor and center sill, once again no frame bolsters, looks like an embossed end, side look like none of the slats are really parallel, but it's far more solid than cardboard, not metal, not sure who made it. Just rambling, eye guess. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3184	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such

I've got....3 or 4 of these in my "stuff". Some aren't too bad, one is HORRIBLE. What's weird on this one, it's a silver GN box, embossed paper sides and ends, wood roof (with the standard metal stiffener bars), wood floor and center sill, no bolsters (trucks screwed right to floor), but a BIG plastic brake wheel and assembly on the "B" end, and plastic end beams! I mean, why all wood and paper, with those parts plastic? Anyway, the bottom edges are all bent under, I am going to epoxy some .080" strips to the sides and floor to hold them in place, then grind and file the plastic to the contour of the sides, using the plastic to replace a couple of bits that are missing. Are these things really worth the effort? I know they're "old", but how old? I am going to spend a LOT of time doing this one, in addition to re- kitting the Walther's tank (back on it's wheels) and the RedBall hopper (ready for new slope sheets) and was just looking to see what folks thought. I mean, I can do it...guaranteed.....and it will look better than original when I'm done..... Got another one, a stock car. Wood floor and center sill, once again no frame bolsters, looks like an embossed end, side look like none of the slats are really parallel, but it's far more solid than cardboard, not metal, not sure who made it. Just rambling, eye guess. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3185	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such

I've got....3 or 4 of these in my "stuff". Some aren't too bad, one is HORRIBLE. What's weird on this one, it's a silver GN box, embossed paper sides and ends, wood roof (with the standard metal stiffener bars), wood floor and center sill, no bolsters (trucks screwed right to floor), but a BIG plastic brake wheel and assembly on the "B" end, and plastic end beams! I mean, why all wood and paper, with those parts plastic? Anyway, the bottom edges are all bent under, I am going to epoxy some .080" strips to the sides and floor to hold them in place, then grind and file the plastic to the contour of the sides, using the plastic to replace a couple of bits that are missing. Are these things really worth the effort? I know they're "old", but how old? I am going to spend a LOT of time doing this one, in addition to re- kitting the Walther's tank (back on it's wheels) and the RedBall hopper (ready for new slope sheets) and was just looking to see what folks thought. I mean, I can do it...guaranteed.....and it will look better than original when I'm done..... Got another one, a stock car. Wood floor and center sill, once again no frame bolsters, looks like an embossed end, side look like none of the slats are really parallel, but it's far more solid than cardboard, not metal, not sure who made it. Just rambling, eye guess. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3186	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such

I've got....3 or 4 of these in my "stuff". Some aren't too bad, one is HORRIBLE. What's weird on this one, it's a silver GN box, embossed paper sides and ends, wood roof (with the standard metal stiffener bars), wood floor and center sill, no bolsters (trucks screwed right to floor), but a BIG plastic brake wheel and assembly on the "B" end, and plastic end beams! I mean, why all wood and paper, with those parts plastic? Anyway, the bottom edges are all bent under, I am going to epoxy some .080" strips to the sides and floor to hold them in place, then grind and file the plastic to the contour of the sides, using the plastic to replace a couple of bits that are missing. Are these things really worth the effort? I know they're "old", but how old? I am going to spend a LOT of time doing this one, in addition to re- kitting the Walther's tank (back on it's wheels) and the RedBall hopper (ready for new slope sheets) and was just looking to see what folks thought. I mean, I can do it...guaranteed.....and it will look better than original when I'm done..... Got another one, a stock car. Wood floor and center sill, once again no frame bolsters, looks like an embossed end, side look like none of the slats are really parallel, but it's far more solid than cardboard, not metal, not sure who made it. Just rambling, eye guess. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3187	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

A class A with Buffers on the tender? Now I've seen everything! I'd bet odds on it's really an old Rivarossi though, but why they'd add the buffers, unless it was to make it appeal to the British & continental markets. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Smith" <cgls@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > Morning all. > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > us!!' > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > Chris Smith > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3188	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such

I've got....3 or 4 of these in my "stuff". Some aren't too bad, one is HORRIBLE. What's weird on this one, it's a silver GN box, embossed paper sides and ends, wood roof (with the standard metal stiffener bars), wood floor and center sill, no bolsters (trucks screwed right to floor), but a BIG plastic brake wheel and assembly on the "B" end, and plastic end beams! I mean, why all wood and paper, with those parts plastic? Anyway, the bottom edges are all bent under, I am going to epoxy some .080" strips to the sides and floor to hold them in place, then grind and file the plastic to the contour of the sides, using the plastic to replace a couple of bits that are missing. Are these things really worth the effort? I know they're "old", but how old? I am going to spend a LOT of time doing this one, in addition to re- kitting the Walther's tank (back on it's wheels) and the RedBall hopper (ready for new slope sheets) and was just looking to see what folks thought. I mean, I can do it...guaranteed.....and it will look better than original when I'm done..... Got another one, a stock car. Wood floor and center sill, once again no frame bolsters, looks like an embossed end, side look like none of the slats are really parallel, but it's far more solid than cardboard, not metal, not sure who made it. Just rambling, eye guess. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3189	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such

I've got....3 or 4 of these in my "stuff". Some aren't too bad, one is HORRIBLE. What's weird on this one, it's a silver GN box, embossed paper sides and ends, wood roof (with the standard metal stiffener bars), wood floor and center sill, no bolsters (trucks screwed right to floor), but a BIG plastic brake wheel and assembly on the "B" end, and plastic end beams! I mean, why all wood and paper, with those parts plastic? Anyway, the bottom edges are all bent under, I am going to epoxy some .080" strips to the sides and floor to hold them in place, then grind and file the plastic to the contour of the sides, using the plastic to replace a couple of bits that are missing. Are these things really worth the effort? I know they're "old", but how old? I am going to spend a LOT of time doing this one, in addition to re- kitting the Walther's tank (back on it's wheels) and the RedBall hopper (ready for new slope sheets) and was just looking to see what folks thought. I mean, I can do it...guaranteed.....and it will look better than original when I'm done..... Got another one, a stock car. Wood floor and center sill, once again no frame bolsters, looks like an embossed end, side look like none of the slats are really parallel, but it's far more solid than cardboard, not metal, not sure who made it. Just rambling, eye guess. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3190	From: Chris Smith	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3191	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

The general shape looks correct.  The nose doesn't appear quite slanted enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an optical illusion.  It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold.  I've written the seller asking about shipping to the US.  The opening bid  is about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my curiosity.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. Dear Group,   I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears further review.   John John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there.   John Chris Smith <cgls@btinternet. com> wrote: Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3192	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such

I've got....3 or 4 of these in my "stuff". Some aren't too bad, one is HORRIBLE. What's weird on this one, it's a silver GN box, embossed paper sides and ends, wood roof (with the standard metal stiffener bars), wood floor and center sill, no bolsters (trucks screwed right to floor), but a BIG plastic brake wheel and assembly on the "B" end, and plastic end beams! I mean, why all wood and paper, with those parts plastic? Anyway, the bottom edges are all bent under, I am going to epoxy some .080" strips to the sides and floor to hold them in place, then grind and file the plastic to the contour of the sides, using the plastic to replace a couple of bits that are missing. Are these things really worth the effort? I know they're "old", but how old? I am going to spend a LOT of time doing this one, in addition to re- kitting the Walther's tank (back on it's wheels) and the RedBall hopper (ready for new slope sheets) and was just looking to see what folks thought. I mean, I can do it...guaranteed.....and it will look better than original when I'm done..... Got another one, a stock car. Wood floor and center sill, once again no frame bolsters, looks like an embossed end, side look like none of the slats are really parallel, but it's far more solid than cardboard, not metal, not sure who made it. Just rambling, eye guess. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3193	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa

Just wanted to let eveyone know there is a good train meet coming at Merchants square mall 1901 S 12th st in Allentown Pa. There is a nice selection of all types of trains new and old. The show is over 10000 square feet of items .. I always enjoy it lots of stuff to see.For more info and picture visit www.lehighvalleytrainmeet.com. The next one is April 15th. Kevin R .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3198	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such

I've got....3 or 4 of these in my "stuff". Some aren't too bad, one is HORRIBLE. What's weird on this one, it's a silver GN box, embossed paper sides and ends, wood roof (with the standard metal stiffener bars), wood floor and center sill, no bolsters (trucks screwed right to floor), but a BIG plastic brake wheel and assembly on the "B" end, and plastic end beams! I mean, why all wood and paper, with those parts plastic? Anyway, the bottom edges are all bent under, I am going to epoxy some .080" strips to the sides and floor to hold them in place, then grind and file the plastic to the contour of the sides, using the plastic to replace a couple of bits that are missing. Are these things really worth the effort? I know they're "old", but how old? I am going to spend a LOT of time doing this one, in addition to re- kitting the Walther's tank (back on it's wheels) and the RedBall hopper (ready for new slope sheets) and was just looking to see what folks thought. I mean, I can do it...guaranteed.....and it will look better than original when I'm done..... Got another one, a stock car. Wood floor and center sill, once again no frame bolsters, looks like an embossed end, side look like none of the slats are really parallel, but it's far more solid than cardboard, not metal, not sure who made it. Just rambling, eye guess. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3200	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa

Just wanted to let eveyone know there is a good train meet coming at Merchants square mall 1901 S 12th st in Allentown Pa. There is a nice selection of all types of trains new and old. The show is over 10000 square feet of items .. I always enjoy it lots of stuff to see.For more info and picture visit www.lehighvalleytrainmeet.com. The next one is April 15th. Kevin R .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3201	From: Garry Spear	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

It looks like the Rivarossi engine.  Keep us informed as to the bidding progress. Garry Spear On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: The general shape looks correct.  The nose doesn't appear quite slanted enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an optical illusion.  It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold.  I've written the seller asking about shipping to the US.  The opening bid  is about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my curiosity.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. Dear Group,   I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears further review.   John John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there.   John Chris Smith <cgls@...> wrote: Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3202	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

One sold here: ebay #120093726278 for $1225.00 AUS > > It looks like the Rivarossi engine. Keep us informed as to the bidding > progress. > Garry Spear > > On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > > The general shape looks correct. The nose doesn't appear quite slanted > > enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an > > optical illusion. It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones > > Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold. I've > > written the seller asking about shipping to the US. The opening bid is > > about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my > > curiosity. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > > > > *Dear Group,* > > ** > > *I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the > > rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that > > the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the > > Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears > > further review.* > > ** > > *John* > > > > *John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>* wrote: > > > > *Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think > > so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there. > > * > > ** > > *John* > > > > *Chris Smith <cgls@...>* wrote: > > > > Morning all. > > > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > > us!!' > > > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > > > Chris Smith > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >and > > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/m ail>to friends. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news>in no time > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news> > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3209	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Holy Smokes, Folks. This guy claimed they are valued at $30,000.00! http://worldrailfans.info/forum/viewtopic.php? t=1625&sid=6d382bd66ce72a756316a5bd4510b19f > > It looks like the Rivarossi engine. Keep us informed as to the bidding > progress. > Garry Spear > > On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > > The general shape looks correct. The nose doesn't appear quite slanted > > enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an > > optical illusion. It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones > > Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold. I've > > written the seller asking about shipping to the US. The opening bid is > > about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my > > curiosity. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > > > > *Dear Group,* > > ** > > *I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the > > rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that > > the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the > > Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears > > further review.* > > ** > > *John* > > > > *John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>* wrote: > > > > *Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think > > so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there. > > * > > ** > > *John* > > > > *Chris Smith <cgls@...>* wrote: > > > > Morning all. > > > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > > us!!' > > > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > > > Chris Smith > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >and > > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/m ail>to friends. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news>in no time > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news> > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3210	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

One sold here: ebay #120093726278 for $1225.00 AUS > > It looks like the Rivarossi engine. Keep us informed as to the bidding > progress. > Garry Spear > > On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > > The general shape looks correct. The nose doesn't appear quite slanted > > enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an > > optical illusion. It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones > > Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold. I've > > written the seller asking about shipping to the US. The opening bid is > > about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my > > curiosity. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > > > > *Dear Group,* > > ** > > *I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the > > rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that > > the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the > > Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears > > further review.* > > ** > > *John* > > > > *John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>* wrote: > > > > *Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think > > so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there. > > * > > ** > > *John* > > > > *Chris Smith <cgls@...>* wrote: > > > > Morning all. > > > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > > us!!' > > > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > > > Chris Smith > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >and > > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/m ail>to friends. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news>in no time > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news> > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3211	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Holy Smokes, Folks. This guy claimed they are valued at $30,000.00! http://worldrailfans.info/forum/viewtopic.php? t=1625&sid=6d382bd66ce72a756316a5bd4510b19f > > It looks like the Rivarossi engine. Keep us informed as to the bidding > progress. > Garry Spear > > On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > > The general shape looks correct. The nose doesn't appear quite slanted > > enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an > > optical illusion. It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones > > Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold. I've > > written the seller asking about shipping to the US. The opening bid is > > about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my > > curiosity. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > > > > *Dear Group,* > > ** > > *I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the > > rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that > > the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the > > Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears > > further review.* > > ** > > *John* > > > > *John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>* wrote: > > > > *Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think > > so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there. > > * > > ** > > *John* > > > > *Chris Smith <cgls@...>* wrote: > > > > Morning all. > > > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > > us!!' > > > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > > > Chris Smith > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >and > > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/m ail>to friends. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news>in no time > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news> > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3212	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

One sold here: ebay #120093726278 for $1225.00 AUS > > It looks like the Rivarossi engine. Keep us informed as to the bidding > progress. > Garry Spear > > On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > > The general shape looks correct. The nose doesn't appear quite slanted > > enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an > > optical illusion. It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones > > Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold. I've > > written the seller asking about shipping to the US. The opening bid is > > about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my > > curiosity. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > > > > *Dear Group,* > > ** > > *I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the > > rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that > > the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the > > Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears > > further review.* > > ** > > *John* > > > > *John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>* wrote: > > > > *Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think > > so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there. > > * > > ** > > *John* > > > > *Chris Smith <cgls@...>* wrote: > > > > Morning all. > > > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > > us!!' > > > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > > > Chris Smith > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >and > > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/m ail>to friends. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news>in no time > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news> > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3213	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Holy Smokes, Folks. This guy claimed they are valued at $30,000.00! http://worldrailfans.info/forum/viewtopic.php? t=1625&sid=6d382bd66ce72a756316a5bd4510b19f > > It looks like the Rivarossi engine. Keep us informed as to the bidding > progress. > Garry Spear > > On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > > The general shape looks correct. The nose doesn't appear quite slanted > > enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an > > optical illusion. It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones > > Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold. I've > > written the seller asking about shipping to the US. The opening bid is > > about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my > > curiosity. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > > > > *Dear Group,* > > ** > > *I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the > > rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that > > the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the > > Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears > > further review.* > > ** > > *John* > > > > *John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>* wrote: > > > > *Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think > > so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there. > > * > > ** > > *John* > > > > *Chris Smith <cgls@...>* wrote: > > > > Morning all. > > > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > > us!!' > > > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > > > Chris Smith > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >and > > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/m ail>to friends. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news>in no time > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news> > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3214	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa

Just wanted to let eveyone know there is a good train meet coming at Merchants square mall 1901 S 12th st in Allentown Pa. There is a nice selection of all types of trains new and old. The show is over 10000 square feet of items .. I always enjoy it lots of stuff to see.For more info and picture visit www.lehighvalleytrainmeet.com. The next one is April 15th. Kevin R .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3215	From: Garry Spear	Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

It looks like the Rivarossi engine.  Keep us informed as to the bidding progress. Garry Spear On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: The general shape looks correct.  The nose doesn't appear quite slanted enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an optical illusion.  It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold.  I've written the seller asking about shipping to the US.  The opening bid  is about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my curiosity.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. Dear Group,   I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears further review.   John John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there.   John Chris Smith <cgls@...> wrote: Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3216	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

One sold here: ebay #120093726278 for $1225.00 AUS > > It looks like the Rivarossi engine. Keep us informed as to the bidding > progress. > Garry Spear > > On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > > The general shape looks correct. The nose doesn't appear quite slanted > > enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an > > optical illusion. It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones > > Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold. I've > > written the seller asking about shipping to the US. The opening bid is > > about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my > > curiosity. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > > > > *Dear Group,* > > ** > > *I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the > > rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that > > the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the > > Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears > > further review.* > > ** > > *John* > > > > *John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>* wrote: > > > > *Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think > > so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there. > > * > > ** > > *John* > > > > *Chris Smith <cgls@...>* wrote: > > > > Morning all. > > > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > > us!!' > > > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > > > Chris Smith > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >and > > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/m ail>to friends. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news>in no time > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news> > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3217	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such

I've got....3 or 4 of these in my "stuff". Some aren't too bad, one is HORRIBLE. What's weird on this one, it's a silver GN box, embossed paper sides and ends, wood roof (with the standard metal stiffener bars), wood floor and center sill, no bolsters (trucks screwed right to floor), but a BIG plastic brake wheel and assembly on the "B" end, and plastic end beams! I mean, why all wood and paper, with those parts plastic? Anyway, the bottom edges are all bent under, I am going to epoxy some .080" strips to the sides and floor to hold them in place, then grind and file the plastic to the contour of the sides, using the plastic to replace a couple of bits that are missing. Are these things really worth the effort? I know they're "old", but how old? I am going to spend a LOT of time doing this one, in addition to re- kitting the Walther's tank (back on it's wheels) and the RedBall hopper (ready for new slope sheets) and was just looking to see what folks thought. I mean, I can do it...guaranteed.....and it will look better than original when I'm done..... Got another one, a stock car. Wood floor and center sill, once again no frame bolsters, looks like an embossed end, side look like none of the slats are really parallel, but it's far more solid than cardboard, not metal, not sure who made it. Just rambling, eye guess. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3218	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Holy Smokes, Folks. This guy claimed they are valued at $30,000.00! http://worldrailfans.info/forum/viewtopic.php? t=1625&sid=6d382bd66ce72a756316a5bd4510b19f > > It looks like the Rivarossi engine. Keep us informed as to the bidding > progress. > Garry Spear > > On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > > The general shape looks correct. The nose doesn't appear quite slanted > > enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an > > optical illusion. It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones > > Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold. I've > > written the seller asking about shipping to the US. The opening bid is > > about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my > > curiosity. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > > > > *Dear Group,* > > ** > > *I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the > > rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that > > the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the > > Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears > > further review.* > > ** > > *John* > > > > *John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>* wrote: > > > > *Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think > > so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there. > > * > > ** > > *John* > > > > *Chris Smith <cgls@...>* wrote: > > > > Morning all. > > > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > > us!!' > > > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > > > Chris Smith > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >and > > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/m ail>to friends. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news>in no time > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news> > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3219	From: Garry Spear	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

It looks like the Rivarossi engine.  Keep us informed as to the bidding progress. Garry Spear On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: The general shape looks correct.  The nose doesn't appear quite slanted enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an optical illusion.  It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold.  I've written the seller asking about shipping to the US.  The opening bid  is about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my curiosity.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. Dear Group,   I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears further review.   John John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there.   John Chris Smith <cgls@...> wrote: Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3220	From: Chris Smith	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3221	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

One sold here: ebay #120093726278 for $1225.00 AUS > > It looks like the Rivarossi engine. Keep us informed as to the bidding > progress. > Garry Spear > > On 3/28/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > > The general shape looks correct. The nose doesn't appear quite slanted > > enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an > > optical illusion. It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones > > Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold. I've > > written the seller asking about shipping to the US. The opening bid is > > about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my > > curiosity. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > > > > *Dear Group,* > > ** > > *I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the > > rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that > > the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the > > Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears > > further review.* > > ** > > *John* > > > > *John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>* wrote: > > > > *Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think > > so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there. > > * > > ** > > *John* > > > > *Chris Smith <cgls@...>* wrote: > > > > Morning all. > > > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > > us!!' > > > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > > > Chris Smith > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >and > > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/m ail>to friends. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news>in no time > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.<http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/? fr=oni_on_mail&#news> > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3222	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

Link doesn't work. _________________________________________________________________ It�s tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMMartagline

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3223	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa

Just wanted to let eveyone know there is a good train meet coming at Merchants square mall 1901 S 12th st in Allentown Pa. There is a nice selection of all types of trains new and old. The show is over 10000 square feet of items .. I always enjoy it lots of stuff to see.For more info and picture visit www.lehighvalleytrainmeet.com. The next one is April 15th. Kevin R .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3224	From: coronetbb	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa

Just wanted to let eveyone know there is a good train meet coming at Merchants square mall 1901 S 12th st in Allentown Pa. There is a nice selection of all types of trains new and old. The show is over 10000 square feet of items .. I always enjoy it lots of stuff to see.For more info and picture visit www.lehighvalleytrainmeet.com. The next one is April 15th. Kevin R .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3225	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such

Dave and list: Your GN box car could be a collectors item. Things to look for when trying to ascertain the history of model train kits; are the road initials and road number. Check trucks for any name (Varney, perhaps) embossed under the truck bolster casting. Are the wheels made from Tenite (plastic) or brass? Are couplers cast in Zamak or plastic and are they coupler standard shape, as the prototype? Is the roof walk brass, plastic or wood and does it replicate a wooden roof walk or steel mesh? The more details given, the easier it is to determine the history of model railway rolling stock. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3226	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

A class A with Buffers on the tender? Now I've seen everything! I'd bet odds on it's really an old Rivarossi though, but why they'd add the buffers, unless it was to make it appeal to the British & continental markets. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Smith" <cgls@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. > Morning all. > > Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears > to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. > > It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with > us!!' > > TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. > > Chris Smith > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3227	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

The general shape looks correct.  The nose doesn't appear quite slanted enough, but it also looks as though the shell is cracked, could be an optical illusion.  It would not surprise me if that casting and the ones Mike Bauers showed us a couple weeks back came from the same mold.  I've written the seller asking about shipping to the US.  The opening bid  is about five bucks, if there's no takers it'd be worth it just to satisfy my curiosity.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK. Dear Group,   I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears further review.   John John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out there.   John Chris Smith <cgls@btinternet. com> wrote: Morning all. Check out eBay item 280098844170. No idea who or what, but it appears to have the old type Mantua Hook and Loop coupler on the tender. It's listed as Hornby!! Oh well like the poor, 'They are always with us!!' TTFN from a reasonably sunny Manchester. Chris Smith Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3228	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

My God............ An Aristo-Craft/AHM Milwaukee Road Hiawatha with British practice buffers on the tender.......... Amazing !!! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Mar 28, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Chris Smith wrote: > 280098844170

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3229	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.

I'll testify that it is the Aristo-Craft/AHM  Milwaukee Road Hiawatha. I have two sets of the undecorated bodies.......... One set just a couple of feet away from me. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Mar 28, 2007, at 3:01 PM, John Barlow wrote: Dear Group,   I took a second, longer look at that and noted the bumper posts on the rear of the tender. The colors are "Hiawatha"-like, but it may well be that the previous owner (not necessarily the seller) wanted to simulate the Milwaukee Road streamliner, perhaps using a British made loco. It bears further review.   John John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Hornby did the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" streamlined loco? Don't think so. What else might it be as fas a maker? I don't know-any ideas out href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail">Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3230	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such

I've got....3 or 4 of these in my "stuff". Some aren't too bad, one is HORRIBLE. What's weird on this one, it's a silver GN box, embossed paper sides and ends, wood roof (with the standard metal stiffener bars), wood floor and center sill, no bolsters (trucks screwed right to floor), but a BIG plastic brake wheel and assembly on the "B" end, and plastic end beams! I mean, why all wood and paper, with those parts plastic? Anyway, the bottom edges are all bent under, I am going to epoxy some .080" strips to the sides and floor to hold them in place, then grind and file the plastic to the contour of the sides, using the plastic to replace a couple of bits that are missing. Are these things really worth the effort? I know they're "old", but how old? I am going to spend a LOT of time doing this one, in addition to re- kitting the Walther's tank (back on it's wheels) and the RedBall hopper (ready for new slope sheets) and was just looking to see what folks thought. I mean, I can do it...guaranteed.....and it will look better than original when I'm done..... Got another one, a stock car. Wood floor and center sill, once again no frame bolsters, looks like an embossed end, side look like none of the slats are really parallel, but it's far more solid than cardboard, not metal, not sure who made it. Just rambling, eye guess. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3231	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such

Trucks are white-metal sideframes, brass bolster, two 90° bends at the sides with holes, and shouldered brass screws holding the bolster to the sideframes, with bras wheelsets, single-side insulated. I have just about got the main portion repaired, found out if you soak the "ratty" edges with super-glue (I use slow set), when it sets up, you can grind and file just like wood. The paint is awfully close to Testor's aluminum. I recall Tenite wheelsets on "0". The roofwalk, landings, brakewheel, end beams and underbody bits appear to be either plastic or Tenite. Dave > > Dave and list: Your GN box car could be a collectors item. > > Things to look for when trying to ascertain the history of model train > kits; are the road initials and road number. Check trucks for any name > (Varney, perhaps) embossed under the truck bolster casting. Are the > wheels made from Tenite (plastic) or brass? Are couplers cast in Zamak > or plastic and are they coupler standard shape, as the prototype? Is > the roof walk brass, plastic or wood and does it replicate a wooden roof > walk or steel mesh? > > The more details given, the easier it is to determine the history of > model railway rolling stock. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3232	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such

Dave: I am sure that you have a VARNEY post war (2) box car kit. My Varney 1948 catalog lists it as kit B 36 GN 2500 Aluminum replicated car with black lettering. The trucks alone are a dead giveaway and are illustrated as having a straight brass bolster (my 1949 catalog illustrates a shoulder in the crossbar), both bent 90* with hole for shouldered brass screw to attach the truck sideframes. The straight bolstered truck is part #1488 and the truck with a shoulder in the crossbar is part #1488-B. Actually, I grew up with paper and wood kits, model airplanes first, then with Varney, Comet and other paper and wood model railroad kits that flourished in pre WW 2 and for a time thereafter. Take your time and you will have an historic model to be proud of. Original models of that era, are worth some reasonable money, the better the workmanship, the more they're worth. If you discover duplicates, you may want to retire original early cars to display and modify the duplicates with updated trucks and couplers, plus whatever other details that you may want to improve on. Personally, I really prefer the colorful Reefers of that day. Today, few such kits or completed r-t-r cars, are available. In a long train, those billboard Reefers, really stand out, eye catchers that they are. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3233	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such

Okay! Got three identified. I do have a couple of reefers. One, orange GN 10094, cast ends, hatches, one-piece frame, bolsters, coupler mounts, tin floor, cardstock sides, looks like metal roof (brass?). Truck center bolsters fit through side of sideframes and are peened to front and rear. Die-cast potmetal, all three parts. Brass wheels with really large axle between wheels, 1/8" or so. The other is a Armour Refrigerator Line, 5325, yellow cardstock sides seem to be glued to wood. Die cast ends with a pronounced peak. Metal hatches, but wood roof and braces, wood floor and center sill. Trucks are different again, with center bolster having a very pronounced round center section, and the sideframes having half- round etensions that fit below the bolsters. Dave > > Dave: I am sure that you have a VARNEY post war (2) box car kit. > > My Varney 1948 catalog lists it as kit B 36 GN 2500 Aluminum replicated > car with black lettering. The trucks alone are a dead giveaway and are > illustrated as having a straight brass bolster (my 1949 catalog > illustrates a shoulder in the crossbar), both bent 90* with hole for > shouldered brass screw to attach the truck sideframes. The straight > bolstered truck is part #1488 and the truck with a shoulder in the > crossbar is part #1488-B. > > Actually, I grew up with paper and wood kits, model airplanes first, > then with Varney, Comet and other paper and wood model railroad kits > that flourished in pre WW 2 and for a time thereafter. Take your time > and you will have an historic model to be proud of. > > Original models of that era, are worth some reasonable money, the better > the workmanship, the more they're worth. If you discover duplicates, > you may want to retire original early cars to display and modify the > duplicates with updated trucks and couplers, plus whatever other details > that you may want to improve on. > > Personally, I really prefer the colorful Reefers of that day. Today, > few such kits or completed r-t-r cars, are available. In a long train, > those billboard Reefers, really stand out, eye catchers that they are. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3234	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such

The Armour Refrigerator Line, 5325, I took a truck off to see. They are "Micro Motive" trucks, and those half-round things sticking out of the sideframes that hold the truck bolsters in are RUBBER, and form the SPRINGS in the sideframe! I thought I had read Athearn had rubber springs in early cars, but these say "Micro Motive Patent Pending" on the top of the truck bolster! Dave > > Okay! > Got three identified. > I do have a couple of reefers. > One, orange GN 10094, cast ends, hatches, one-piece frame, bolsters, > coupler mounts, tin floor, cardstock sides, looks like metal roof > (brass?). > Truck center bolsters fit through side of sideframes and are peened > to front and rear. > Die-cast potmetal, all three parts. Brass wheels with really large > axle between wheels, 1/8" or so. > > The other is a Armour Refrigerator Line, 5325, yellow cardstock > sides seem to be glued to wood. > Die cast ends with a pronounced peak. > Metal hatches, but wood roof and braces, wood floor and center sill. > Trucks are different again, with center bolster having a very > pronounced round center section, and the sideframes having half- > round etensions that fit below the bolsters. > > Dave > > > > > Dave: I am sure that you have a VARNEY post war (2) box car > kit. > > > > My Varney 1948 catalog lists it as kit B 36 GN 2500 Aluminum > replicated > > car with black lettering. The trucks alone are a dead giveaway > and are > > illustrated as having a straight brass bolster (my 1949 catalog > > illustrates a shoulder in the crossbar), both bent 90* with hole > for > > shouldered brass screw to attach the truck sideframes. The > straight > > bolstered truck is part #1488 and the truck with a shoulder in the > > crossbar is part #1488-B. > > > > Actually, I grew up with paper and wood kits, model airplanes > first, > > then with Varney, Comet and other paper and wood model railroad > kits > > that flourished in pre WW 2 and for a time thereafter. Take your > time > > and you will have an historic model to be proud > of. > > > > Original models of that era, are worth some reasonable money, the > better > > the workmanship, the more they're worth. If you discover > duplicates, > > you may want to retire original early cars to display and modify > the > > duplicates with updated trucks and couplers, plus whatever other > details > > that you may want to improve on. > > > > Personally, I really prefer the colorful Reefers of that day. > Today, > > few such kits or completed r-t-r cars, are available. In a long > train, > > those billboard Reefers, really stand out, eye catchers that they > are. > > > > Don L. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3235	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:29 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Paper sided boxcars and such > The Armour Refrigerator Line, 5325, I took a truck off to see. > They are "Micro Motive" trucks, and those half-round things sticking > out of the sideframes that hold the truck bolsters in are RUBBER, > and form the SPRINGS in the sideframe! > I thought I had read Athearn had rubber springs in early cars, but > these say "Micro Motive Patent Pending" on the top of the truck > bolster! > > Dave I have a couple pair of the Micro-motive trucks, and they still roll surprisingly well after 60 years. The ones with really thick axles I believe might be Mantuas or Megows. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3236	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such

One thing I have noticed in this batch I have had squirrelled away for over 20 years, is that not too many are all one manufacturer. The guy who built them mixed and matched, not always well. Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:29 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Paper sided boxcars and such > > > > The Armour Refrigerator Line, 5325, I took a truck off to see. > > They are "Micro Motive" trucks, and those half-round things sticking > > out of the sideframes that hold the truck bolsters in are RUBBER, > > and form the SPRINGS in the sideframe! > > I thought I had read Athearn had rubber springs in early cars, but > > these say "Micro Motive Patent Pending" on the top of the truck > > bolster! > > > > Dave > > I have a couple pair of the Micro-motive trucks, and they still roll > surprisingly well after 60 years. > > The ones with really thick axles I believe might be Mantuas or Megows. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3237	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

Just so I understand fully on this: The Athearn cars I am used to have the standard Athearn boxes with the metal clips that snap over them. These have a half-oval flat spot with two holes in the end of the frame. The Athearn end Wobbly sent arrived today and is perfect, but didn't Athearn buy out Globe? Dave > > Globe passenger car kits show up on ebay all the time for pretty low dollars. > > In the last 30 days: > > 2 built and 1 unbuilt sold for the princely sum of $1.25. > 4 built cars for a buy it now for $20.00 > > Currently: > > 9 Pennsylvania passenger cars, bidding at $9.99 > 2 Santa Fe, 1 built, 1 unbilt, bidding $6.99 > > Chuck Kinzer > > Quoting curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...>: > > > Yes, yes and yes. > > The issue for me was all the Athearn I have ever seen were one- piece > > bodies, and a "floor" that was a tub that slipped up inside. > > This floor is flat. > > Plus, didn't Athearn have weights? > > Couple of small clip looking things inboard of the trucks. > > > > I see the offer for an end, I game, but I hate to take a good unit > > for parts. > > > > There are two different ends, this one missing I think has the > > brakewheel, but I don't really care which. > > > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3238	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

Dave, That is what I have heard over the years that Globe did become Athearn.   Chuck   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of curmudgeon Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:28 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying   Just so I understand fully on this: The Athearn cars I am used to have the standard Athearn boxes with the metal clips that snap over them. These have a half-oval flat spot with two holes in the end of the frame. The Athearn end Wobbly sent arrived today and is perfect, but didn't Athearn buy out Globe? Dave > > Globe passenger car kits show up on ebay all the time for pretty low dollars. > > In the last 30 days: > > 2 built and 1 unbuilt sold for the princely sum of $1.25. > 4 built cars for a buy it now for $20.00 > > Currently: > > 9 Pennsylvania passenger cars, bidding at $9.99 > 2 Santa Fe , 1 built, 1 unbilt, bidding $6.99 > > Chuck Kinzer > > Quoting curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...>: > > > Yes, yes and yes. > > The issue for me was all the Athearn I have ever seen were one- piece > > bodies, and a "floor" that was a tub that slipped up inside. > > This floor is flat. > > Plus, didn't Athearn have weights? > > Couple of small clip looking things inboard of the trucks. > > > > I see the offer for an end, I game, but I hate to take a good unit > > for parts. > > > > There are two different ends, this one missing I think has the > > brakewheel, but I don't really care which. > > > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3239	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

I thought that Athearn actually was Globe--used the "pseudonym" while introducing the plastic line, so as not to "damage the good name" if not successful.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying Just so I understand fully on this: The Athearn cars I am used to have the standard Athearn boxes with the metal clips that snap over them. These have a half-oval flat spot with two holes in the end of the frame. The Athearn end Wobbly sent arrived today and is perfect, but didn't Athearn buy out Globe? Dave > > Globe passenger car kits show up on ebay all the time for pretty low dollars. > > In the last 30 days: > > 2 built and 1 unbuilt sold for the princely sum of $1.25. > 4 built cars for a buy it now for $20.00 > > Currently: > > 9 Pennsylvania passenger cars, bidding at $9.99 > 2 Santa Fe, 1 built, 1 unbilt, bidding $6.99 > > Chuck Kinzer > > Quoting curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...>: > > > Yes, yes and yes. > > The issue for me was all the Athearn I have ever seen were one- piece > > bodies, and a "floor" that was a tub that slipped up inside. > > This floor is flat. > > Plus, didn't Athearn have weights? > > Couple of small clip looking things inboard of the trucks. > > > > I see the offer for an end, I game, but I hate to take a good unit > > for parts. > > > > There are two different ends, this one missing I think has the > > brakewheel, but I don't really care which. > > > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3240	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

Attachments : Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as Carl Traub as I recall. The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3241	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

I did some research on hoseeker, the 1956 literature is this style, the 1975 literature is the ones with the bathtub chassis and the standard Athearn horn-hooks and snap-on metal coupler box cover. In the 60's, the only ones we ever had were the later ones, so I am not sure as to when the changeover was. Dave > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as > Carl Traub as I recall. > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. > > Don L. > > > I thought that Athearn actually was Globe--used the "pseudonym" while introducing the plastic line, so as not to "damage the good name" if not successful. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:28 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > Just so I understand fully on this: > > The Athearn cars I am used to have the standard Athearn boxes with > the metal clips that snap over them. > These have a half-oval flat spot with two holes in the end of the > frame. > The Athearn end Wobbly sent arrived today and is perfect, but didn't > Athearn buy out Globe? > Dave > > > > > Globe passenger car kits show up on ebay all the time for pretty > low dollars. > > > > In the last 30 days: > > > > 2 built and 1 unbuilt sold for the princely sum of $1.25. > > 4 built cars for a buy it now for $20.00 > > > > Currently: > > > > 9 Pennsylvania passenger cars, bidding at $9.99 > > 2 Santa Fe, 1 built, 1 unbilt, bidding $6.99 > > > > Chuck Kinzer > > > > Quoting curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@>: > > > > > Yes, yes and yes. > > > The issue for me was all the Athearn I have ever seen were one- > piece > > > bodies, and a "floor" that was a tub that slipped up inside. > > > This floor is flat. > > > Plus, didn't Athearn have weights? > > > Couple of small clip looking things inboard of the trucks. > > > > > > I see the offer for an end, I game, but I hate to take a good > unit > > > for parts. > > > > > > There are two different ends, this one missing I think has the > > > brakewheel, but I don't really care which. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3242	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

The Greenberg's Guide to Athearn gives an interesting history of the development of both Globe and Athearn as well as Varney. If you have the book it is well worth reading. According to that book Irv Athearn bought out Globe on July 2, 1951. The book indicates that Irv Athearn continued to run Globe as a separate company for some time, with apparently no indication of their relationship. It was in that vein that the Globe Streamliner passenger sets were produced, Irv was perhaps experimenting with the acceptance of plastic models over his and Globes previously metal cars. At some point Athearn started selling identical models of the Globe Streamliner line under the Athearn name. The article is too long to post in its entirety, not to mention the possibility of copyright infringement.   As for the Carnation set, they were offered by Carnation as a mail in coupon deal. I have a collection of that equipment, unbuilt, much in the original Carnation packaging. The  units are painted silver with no lettering for any railroad. I have 3 F7A units, 2 F7B's, 2 RPO cars, 2 coaches, 3 dome cars and 1 observation.Diners are not included on the order form that I have.   Wobbly913 DLeistikow@... wrote: Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as Carl Traub as I recall. The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. Don L. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3243	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold.  Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see silver.  Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and silver were the only choices originally.   Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I have.  I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: DLeistikow@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as Carl Traub as I recall. The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3244	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

My F7-A is silver. > > Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold. Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see silver. Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and silver were the only choices originally. > > Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I have. I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DLeistikow@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as > Carl Traub as I recall. > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3245	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: RedBall or Varney hopper?

I found on hoseeker, in the 1941 Varney catalog, the same hopper that RedBall had. So, to help me identify for certain, anybody have either they can look at the frame and tell me if there are differences? The sides are the same, same number of panels, same extensions. The frame I have is flat, with ribs sticking up all around the sides (to give a good purchase for connecting the sides, I would guess) with 4 cutouts per end, one end, one of the larger cutouts is shaped differently. The bottom drops are part of the floor casting. The hole for the truck kingpin is huge. It took a 6-32 tap to bite, and I inserted pre-drilled and 2-56 tapped brass 6-32 screw in and super-glues them, then cut them off. The slope sheet are separate parts, the original assembler used cardstock. I thought about brass, but they are heavy enough, so .040 styrene gets the nod. So, while it is still somewhat un-finished, anybody have something I can compare to? All I am doing is putting notes with these so the offspring will know what to do with them later..... The trucks, according to one source, are early Varney, solid sideframes, solid truck bolster, round holes in sideframe, square bolster, pressed together, brass wheels.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3246	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

Besides coming in both undecorated Gold and Silver versions, the Globe F7 also came in undecorated Clear. I have come across these several times through the years, but currently only have one left in my collection. I have one of the Kemtron frames made specifically for the Globe F unit, it is powered with a Lindsay motor and has brass sideframes. That is the way that I had seen it in an advertisement in an old magazine. I also have powered frame made for the Globe unit by Lindsay, which I recently won on ebay. Hobbytown made one as well, which is probably the most common one found at shows... it is different than the more current Hobbytown offerings that are now not available. American Beauty Lines also made a power unit for the Globe.  I have only seen advertisements for them, though. I will try to post pictures of some of these things, although I am not sure how quickly I can get them on... hopefully some time this weekend. Stephen. _,_._,___ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3247	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

Globe also made a power unit for the F7's as did Lindsay.  I also have an instruction sheet for a Scalite Lighting Kit D-9  for use with the F7 with either the kemtron or Lindsay drives and assumably the Globe drive.  The Globe drive was apparently available in either single truck or both trucks driven.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: My F7-A is silver. > > Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold. Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see silver. Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and silver were the only choices originally. > > Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I have. I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DLeistikow@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as > Carl Traub as I recall. > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. > > Don L. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3248	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: I need 1 set of steps and handrail Lisdsay Brass SW7 (I think)

Hey Guys, I just picked-up a brass Lindsay SW unit. I think it is an SW-7. I need one set of steps & handrail, with platform deck (all molded as one piece in brass). I will supply pictures with my reply to this message. (I still have not figured out how to attach them to the first message). I plan on listing the engine, so I will be more than happy to pay for the piece. It is all going to my Mustang fund, for which I am despirately trying to keep ahead of the bodyman. He seems to always want more money than I have to give. He gave me a $7,000-$9,000 estimate to get my Mustang in paint, so I have been listing like crazy. Just pulling my hair out.... Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3249	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 11:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] RedBall or Varney hopper? >I found on hoseeker, in the 1941 Varney catalog, the same hopper > that RedBall had. > > So, to help me identify for certain, anybody have either they can > look at the frame and tell me if there are differences? > The sides are the same, same number of panels, same extensions. > > The frame I have is flat, with ribs sticking up all around the sides > (to give a good purchase for connecting the sides, I would guess) > with 4 cutouts per end, one end, one of the larger cutouts is shaped > differently. > The bottom drops are part of the floor casting. > The hole for the truck kingpin is huge. > It took a 6-32 tap to bite, and I inserted pre-drilled and 2-56 > tapped brass 6-32 screw in and super-glues them, then cut them off. > > The slope sheet are separate parts, the original assembler used > cardstock. > I thought about brass, but they are heavy enough, so .040 styrene > gets the nod. > > So, while it is still somewhat un-finished, anybody have something I > can compare to? > All I am doing is putting notes with these so the offspring will > know what to do with them later..... > > The trucks, according to one source, are early Varney, solid > sideframes, solid truck bolster, round holes in sideframe, square > bolster, pressed together, brass wheels. The Varney catalog for 1948 says the sides of the Varney are aluminum "thin enough to cut with a scissors". My model was solid enough as-is, so I didn't do any restoration other than trucks and couplers, but the sides on mine appear to be more of a thin wall zamac caxting, which is why I think it's the Red Ball version. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3250	From: sean naylor	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: I need 1 set of steps and handrail Lisdsay Brass SW7 (I think)

Attachments : Hello again, Here is the pics.... The rail broke on the one I have, but I think I can sweat it back on... Sean a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hey Guys, I just picked-up a brass Lindsay SW unit. I think it is an SW-7. I need one set of steps & handrail, with platform deck (all molded as one piece in brass). I will supply pictures with my reply to this message. (I still have not figured out how to attach them to the first message). I plan on listing the engine, so I will be more than happy to pay for the piece. It is all going to my Mustang fund, for which I am despirately trying to keep ahead of the bodyman. He seems to always want more money than I have to give. He gave me a $7,000-$9,000 estimate to get my Mustang in paint, so I have been listing like crazy. Just pulling my hair out.... Sean Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3251	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?

Attachments : Dave and list: The very first comparison to be made are the car markings. The Varney 1941 catalog displays a photo of a Wabash Hopper car with road initials and numbers; WAB 13011. This is identified as their kit # H-2, ... H-1 being a plain unmarked/undecorated car. Kit H-3, is listed as a D&H car. As I do not have a Red Ball catalog for that period, or later, we will continue to discuss your car identification as; is or is not, a Varney. The trucks are the next form of identification. There are no round holes in the side frames of Varney trucks. Varney's have open areas of a triangular form with rounded corners. In addtion, and as I have previously mentioned, the Varney trucks of that era, have the Varney name spelled out on the bottom circular face where the kingpin (screw) is inserted. That... should be plainly visable. Furthermore, Varney kits of that era, had Tenite couplers, the top of the shank had VARNEY embossed thereon. The coupler face and head were scale versions of standard AAR couplers. The AB brake hardware, will also be a tenite casting of three pieces on the 'tree'. This should be ample information for you to determine the manufacturer of the kit that you have. It either is a Varney or, it is not. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3252	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /Globe Metal Kits Uploaded by : garrettspear <garrettspear@...> Description : A Listing of Globe Metal Kits w/ Init. Car Numbers You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Globe%20Metal%20Kits To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, garrettspear <garrettspear@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3253	From: Garry Spear	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

Globe was a producer of metal kits in the 1950s era.  I have added a txt file with a list of the metal cars known to me.  Many kits were available in different car numbers. I like metal tank cars and own at least one of each road name ; except for Warren, Phillips, and GATX.  And I may own some of them.  (My list may noty have the latest updates. notes at the bottom explain the c and n prefixs. Garry Spear On 3/31/07, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: Globe also made a power unit for the F7's as did Lindsay.  I also have an instruction sheet for a Scalite Lighting Kit D-9  for use with the F7 with either the kemtron or Lindsay drives and assumably the Globe drive.  The Globe drive was apparently available in either single truck or both trucks driven.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@... > wrote: My F7-A is silver. > > Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold. Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see silver. Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and silver were the only choices originally. > > Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I have. I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DLeistikow@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as > Carl Traub as I recall. > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. > > Don L. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3254	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Lindsey switcher steps

Sean,   I have a plastic version of the switcher, I will have to find it later and post a photo.  The plastic unit has a large gear that is not held down well and the bushing would rise enough to cause the teeth to be worn away.  I got lucky and find a metal gear to replace the plastic one and it works pretty good.  Nice photo of the steps.   Take care,     Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3255	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?

Hard to tell on the inner holes in the sideframes. I have photos somewhere. I'll get one up. Same trucks as on the tank car, which IS posted. Mantua couplers screwed on with wood screws, no less. All hardware not installed (as in, no marks on what is left of the paint). I really need to just figure out the basic shell so I know HOW to add the bits. If it's RedBall, one way, Varney, another. So, first step is maybe to go back and figure out exactly WHOSE trucks I have. This guy just mixed parts all over the place. So, we don't know whose trucks yet, or if these were "supplied". Couplers have been changed. No additional detail parts were ever added. Decals were apparently an afterthought, as they didn't fit the car (N&W, and too big). Dave > > Dave and list: The very first comparison to be made are the car > markings. The Varney 1941 catalog displays a photo of a Wabash Hopper > car with road initials and numbers; WAB 13011. This is identified as > their kit # H-2, ... H-1 being a plain unmarked/undecorated car. Kit > H-3, is listed as a D&H car. > > As I do not have a Red Ball catalog for that period, or later, we will > continue to discuss your car identification as; is or is not, a Varney. > The trucks are the next form of identification. > > There are no round holes in the side frames of Varney trucks. Varney's > have open areas of a triangular form with rounded corners. In addtion, > and as I have previously mentioned, the Varney trucks of that era, have > the Varney name spelled out on the bottom circular face where the > kingpin (screw) is inserted. That... should be plainly visable. > > Furthermore, Varney kits of that era, had Tenite couplers, the top of > the shank had VARNEY embossed thereon. The coupler face and head were > scale versions of standard AAR couplers. > > The AB brake hardware, will also be a tenite casting of three pieces on > the 'tree'. > > This should be ample information for you to determine the manufacturer > of the kit that you have. It either is a Varney or, it is not. > > Don L. > > > I found on hoseeker, in the 1941 Varney catalog, the same hopper > that RedBall had. > > So, to help me identify for certain, anybody have either they can > look at the frame and tell me if there are differences? > The sides are the same, same number of panels, same extensions. > > The frame I have is flat, with ribs sticking up all around the sides > (to give a good purchase for connecting the sides, I would guess) > with 4 cutouts per end, one end, one of the larger cutouts is shaped > differently. > The bottom drops are part of the floor casting. > The hole for the truck kingpin is huge. > It took a 6-32 tap to bite, and I inserted pre-drilled and 2-56 > tapped brass 6-32 screw in and super-glues them, then cut them off. > > The slope sheet are separate parts, the original assembler used > cardstock. > I thought about brass, but they are heavy enough, so .040 styrene > gets the nod. > > So, while it is still somewhat un-finished, anybody have something I > can compare to? > All I am doing is putting notes with these so the offspring will > know what to do with them later..... > > The trucks, according to one source, are early Varney, solid > sideframes, solid truck bolster, round holes in sideframe, square > bolster, pressed together, brass wheels. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3256	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: More on Lindsay's other stuff

One of the sidebar collection habits I have acquired during the past few years has been buying items that I had seen in Trade Topics in MR in my youth. I recently picked up a Lindsay Spiking tool off eBay. It had been reviewed back in the 50s (I have the issue but can't find it in the clutter in my work room right now.) The spiker is extremely well crafted and clearly something that could never be produced in this country again for any sort of reasonable selling price. The disucssion about the Lindsay switcher steps and handrails made me think of it. In addition to the locos and cars, we forget how much of the accessories of that era shaped how you could create a railroad back then. I had always wanted to try laying my own track on Tru-Scale roadbed with milled ties and Code 100 rail, but that would be more than pointless nowdays.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3257	From: erieberk	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

Hi Gary, Noticed your most ambitious posting of the near-complete listing of Globe freight cars; that's a lot of work, but looks good and should be informative to those who collect them. While on the subject of metal tank cars, which I see you collect, you should also look into the Thomas Industries line of them which are equally well done. Then, you may already be collecting them. On your present listing of Globe cars in the Files, you can add the following which I can verify as having, and which I've also verified many of in the Greenberg's Guide to Athearn Trains 20 years ago, although I've since added a few to the collection. 40' Single Door Standard Box Car: 4000B Baltimore & Ohio - 465102, 465462 4000L Delaware Lackawanna & Western - 51408, 51409 4000M Erie - 70603, 70604, 70605, 70607 70609 40' Single Door Special Box Car: 4100A New York Central Pacemaker - 174480 40' Single Door Aluminum Box Car: 4300D Chesapeake & Ohio - 2935, 2936, 2937 40' Double Door Automobile Car: 4400A Pennsylvania R R - 64155, 64156, 64157 4400B Denver & Rio Grande Western - 69503, 69504, 69507, 69513 4400C Kansas City Southern - 20891, 20893, 20894, 20896, 20899 40' Stock Cars (w/Plastic Sides): 5000B ASSORTED ROADS -- ATSF - 50655, 50656, 50659 C&NW - 19133, 19136, 19137, 19177 MP - 52422, 52425, 52428 Soo Line - 29699 Wabash - 15121, 15122, 15125 5000C Denver & Rio Grande Western - 36950, 36957, 36958 NOTE: Your "5000D" (Soo Line) is really 5000B 40' Steel Refrigerator Cars: 6000A FGEX (Fruit Growers Express) - 38964, 38969 6000C URTX/Milwaukee Road - 37010, 37012, 37018, 37019 Single Dome 10,000 Gallon Tank Car: 8000D Sinclair (SDRX) - 7143 8000I UTLX (Union Tank Car Co)- 51871, 51872, 51875 8000N Phillips 66 (PSPX) - 923 Single Dome 8,000 Gallon Tank Car: 8100B Hercules (HPCX) Black - 317 Additionally, I note one of your 4000I NYC cars (#174474) appears to be a 4100A NYC Pacemaker number. There are a couple of numbers I find I must question as no one that I know of has them, not that they might not exist. I do see that you also question the 4000H CB&Q 39387 (this is one in question). I also would question the two 4400B D&RGW Auto Cars # 69542 and # 69543; perhaps they're typo's? Lastly, I find nothing on the possible existance of an ATSF 4000 Series 40' Single Door Standard Box Car and conclude it was never produced. All in all, you did a pretty good job. Regards, Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...> wrote: > > Globe was a producer of metal kits in the 1950s era. I have added a txt > file with a list of the metal cars known to me. Many kits were available in > different car numbers. > > I like metal tank cars and own at least one of each road name ; except for > Warren, Phillips, and GATX. And I may own some of them. (My list may noty > have the latest updates. > > notes at the bottom explain the c and n prefixs. > > Garry Spear > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Need Mail bonding? > > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A<http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5Nj U0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx? link=ask&sid=396546091>for great > > tips from Yahoo! Answers<http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAz M5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx ?link=ask&sid=396546091>users. > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3258	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?

The truck shown here is a dead ringer for what I have: http://hoseeker.net/varneyinformation/varneycatalog1941pg25.jpg > > Hard to tell on the inner holes in the sideframes. > I have photos somewhere. I'll get one up. Same trucks as on the tank > car, which IS posted. > Mantua couplers screwed on with wood screws, no less. > All hardware not installed (as in, no marks on what is left of the > paint). > I really need to just figure out the basic shell so I know HOW to > add the bits. > If it's RedBall, one way, Varney, another. > So, first step is maybe to go back and figure out exactly WHOSE > trucks I have. > This guy just mixed parts all over the place. > > So, we don't know whose trucks yet, or if these were "supplied". > Couplers have been changed. > No additional detail parts were ever added. > Decals were apparently an afterthought, as they didn't fit the car > (N&W, and too big). > > Dave > > > > > > Dave and list: The very first comparison to be made are the car > > markings. The Varney 1941 catalog displays a photo of a Wabash > Hopper > > car with road initials and numbers; WAB 13011. This is > identified as > > their kit # H-2, ... H-1 being a plain unmarked/undecorated car. > Kit > > H-3, is listed as a D&H car. > > > > As I do not have a Red Ball catalog for that period, or later, we > will > > continue to discuss your car identification as; is or is not, a > Varney. > > The trucks are the next form of > identification. > > > > There are no round holes in the side frames of Varney trucks. > Varney's > > have open areas of a triangular form with rounded corners. In > addtion, > > and as I have previously mentioned, the Varney trucks of that era, > have > > the Varney name spelled out on the bottom circular face where the > > kingpin (screw) is inserted. That... should be plainly > visable. > > > > Furthermore, Varney kits of that era, had Tenite couplers, the top > of > > the shank had VARNEY embossed thereon. The coupler face and head > were > > scale versions of standard AAR > couplers. > > > > The AB brake hardware, will also be a tenite casting of three > pieces on > > the 'tree'. > > > > This should be ample information for you to determine the > manufacturer > > of the kit that you have. It either is a Varney or, it is > not. > > > > Don L. > > > > > > I found on hoseeker, in the 1941 Varney catalog, the same hopper > > that RedBall had. > > > > So, to help me identify for certain, anybody have either they can > > look at the frame and tell me if there are differences? > > The sides are the same, same number of panels, same extensions. > > > > The frame I have is flat, with ribs sticking up all around the > sides > > (to give a good purchase for connecting the sides, I would guess) > > with 4 cutouts per end, one end, one of the larger cutouts is > shaped > > differently. > > The bottom drops are part of the floor casting. > > The hole for the truck kingpin is huge. > > It took a 6-32 tap to bite, and I inserted pre-drilled and 2-56 > > tapped brass 6-32 screw in and super-glues them, then cut them off. > > > > The slope sheet are separate parts, the original assembler used > > cardstock. > > I thought about brass, but they are heavy enough, so .040 styrene > > gets the nod. > > > > So, while it is still somewhat un-finished, anybody have something > I > > can compare to? > > All I am doing is putting notes with these so the offspring will > > know what to do with them later..... > > > > The trucks, according to one source, are early Varney, solid > > sideframes, solid truck bolster, round holes in sideframe, square > > bolster, pressed together, brass wheels. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3259	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?

Seems the Varney was not cast, but embossed metal sheet you bent to shape: http://hoseeker.net/varneyinformation/varneycatalog1941pg05.jpg So, Red Ball, need to find a drawing.. > The truck shown here is a dead ringer for what I have: > > http://hoseeker.net/varneyinformation/varneycatalog1941pg25.jpg > > > > Hard to tell on the inner holes in the sideframes. > > I have photos somewhere. I'll get one up. Same trucks as on the > tank > > car, which IS posted. > > Mantua couplers screwed on with wood screws, no less. > > All hardware not installed (as in, no marks on what is left of the > > paint). > > I really need to just figure out the basic shell so I know HOW to > > add the bits. > > If it's RedBall, one way, Varney, another. > > So, first step is maybe to go back and figure out exactly WHOSE > > trucks I have. > > This guy just mixed parts all over the place. > > > > So, we don't know whose trucks yet, or if these were "supplied". > > Couplers have been changed. > > No additional detail parts were ever added. > > Decals were apparently an afterthought, as they didn't fit the car > > (N&W, and too big). > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > Dave and list: The very first comparison to be made are the car > > > markings. The Varney 1941 catalog displays a photo of a Wabash > > Hopper > > > car with road initials and numbers; WAB 13011. This is > > identified as > > > their kit # H-2, ... H-1 being a plain unmarked/undecorated > car. > > Kit > > > H-3, is listed as a D&H car. > > > > > > As I do not have a Red Ball catalog for that period, or later, > we > > will > > > continue to discuss your car identification as; is or is not, a > > Varney. > > > The trucks are the next form of > > identification. > > > > > > There are no round holes in the side frames of Varney trucks. > > Varney's > > > have open areas of a triangular form with rounded corners. In > > addtion, > > > and as I have previously mentioned, the Varney trucks of that > era, > > have > > > the Varney name spelled out on the bottom circular face where the > > > kingpin (screw) is inserted. That... should be plainly > > visable. > > > > > > Furthermore, Varney kits of that era, had Tenite couplers, the > top > > of > > > the shank had VARNEY embossed thereon. The coupler face and > head > > were > > > scale versions of standard AAR > > couplers. > > > > > > The AB brake hardware, will also be a tenite casting of three > > pieces on > > > the 'tree'. > > > > > > This should be ample information for you to determine the > > manufacturer > > > of the kit that you have. It either is a Varney or, it is > > not. > > > > > > Don L. > > > > > > > > > I found on hoseeker, in the 1941 Varney catalog, the same hopper > > > that RedBall had. > > > > > > So, to help me identify for certain, anybody have either they > can > > > look at the frame and tell me if there are differences? > > > The sides are the same, same number of panels, same extensions. > > > > > > The frame I have is flat, with ribs sticking up all around the > > sides > > > (to give a good purchase for connecting the sides, I would > guess) > > > with 4 cutouts per end, one end, one of the larger cutouts is > > shaped > > > differently. > > > The bottom drops are part of the floor casting. > > > The hole for the truck kingpin is huge. > > > It took a 6-32 tap to bite, and I inserted pre-drilled and 2- 56 > > > tapped brass 6-32 screw in and super-glues them, then cut them > off. > > > > > > The slope sheet are separate parts, the original assembler used > > > cardstock. > > > I thought about brass, but they are heavy enough, so .040 > styrene > > > gets the nod. > > > > > > So, while it is still somewhat un-finished, anybody have > something > > I > > > can compare to? > > > All I am doing is putting notes with these so the offspring will > > > know what to do with them later..... > > > > > > The trucks, according to one source, are early Varney, solid > > > sideframes, solid truck bolster, round holes in sideframe, > square > > > bolster, pressed together, brass wheels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3260	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying

As I remember them, the first ones were gold, silver, and Union Pacific.  You had to paint the gray on the UP locos.  Santa Fe was a close follow-up, then a change in the die brought SP Black Widow.  I don't recall what eastern roads were represented.   The passenger cars were a mid-length--not the 60 ft shorties common at the time, but not quite full scale length.  They followed the pattern of Athearn's early RDC series, in which the RDC-1,-2, and -3 were shortened about 10%. Prototypes were sort-of Santa Fe. The RPO, like the RDC-4, were scale length.  gj   I recall the gold or silver ones as a premium with some sort of cereal-- ----- Original Message ----- From: DLeistikow@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as Carl Traub as I recall. The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3261	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

Several mfrs made drives for the Globe F-7's, before Globe themselves (or Athearn) did it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles E. Kinzer To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold.  Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see silver.  Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and silver were the only choices originally.   Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I have.  I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: DLeistikow@webtv. net To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as Carl Traub as I recall. The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3262	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

wish someone had the dies for the Scalelight EMD number board--being clear plastic it would do nicely for the Varney F-3's also.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying Globe also made a power unit for the F7's as did Lindsay.  I also have an instruction sheet for a Scalite Lighting Kit D-9  for use with the F7 with either the kemtron or Lindsay drives and assumably the Globe drive.  The Globe drive was apparently available in either single truck or both trucks driven.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: My F7-A is silver. > > Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold. Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see silver. Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and silver were the only choices originally. > > Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I have. I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DLeistikow@. .. > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as > Carl Traub as I recall. > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. > > Don L. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3263	From: Glenn476	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff

But grab a Kadee Spiker and it would go fast! ----- Original Message ----- From: mmattjcoleman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff One of the sidebar collection habits I have acquired during the past few years has been buying items that I had seen in Trade Topics in MR in my youth. I recently picked up a Lindsay Spiking tool off eBay. It had been reviewed back in the 50s (I have the issue but can't find it in the clutter in my work room right now.) The spiker is extremely well crafted and clearly something that could never be produced in this country again for any sort of reasonable selling price. The disucssion about the Lindsay switcher steps and handrails made me think of it. In addition to the locos and cars, we forget how much of the accessories of that era shaped how you could create a railroad back then. I had always wanted to try laying my own track on Tru-Scale roadbed with milled ties and Code 100 rail, but that would be more than pointless nowdays.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3264	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

I have a motor, round part looks like the standard metal Athearn motors, but the tower it stands on is different, TALL, with brush holders in the base and LONG arms. Plate on the bottom, 2 screws, looks like it was designed to sandwich the fuel tank of a plastic chassis between the base and plate. Dave > > Several mfrs made drives for the Globe F-7's, before Globe themselves (or Athearn) did it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charles E. Kinzer > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:06 PM > Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > > Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold. Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see silver. Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and silver were the only choices originally. > > Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I have. I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DLeistikow@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as > Carl Traub as I recall. > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3265	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)

I had one, I forget who made it, it was a base that fit over the rails, supposedly keeping them in gauge, then you droped four spikes in the holes, ROUND head brass pins actually, and a handle with four pins on it that then pushed all four "spikes" in at the same time.  I was using the Tru-Scale milled roadbed at the time, and it worked actually rather well.   We used a Kadee at the club, if I was going to handlay today I would find a Kadee.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff But grab a Kadee Spiker and it would go fast! ----- Original Message ----- From: mmattjcoleman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff One of the sidebar collection habits I have acquired during the past few years has been buying items that I had seen in Trade Topics in MR in my youth. I recently picked up a Lindsay Spiking tool off eBay. It had been reviewed back in the 50s (I have the issue but can't find it in the clutter in my work room right now.) The spiker is extremely well crafted and clearly something that could never be produced in this country again for any sort of reasonable selling price. The disucssion about the Lindsay switcher steps and handrails made me think of it. In addition to the locos and cars, we forget how much of the accessories of that era shaped how you could create a railroad back then. I had always wanted to try laying my own track on Tru-Scale roadbed with milled ties and Code 100 rail, but that would be more than pointless nowdays.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3266	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 5:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RedBall or Varney hopper? > Seems the Varney was not cast, but embossed metal sheet you bent to > shape: > > http://hoseeker.net/varneyinformation/varneycatalog1941pg05.jpg > > So, Red Ball, need to find a drawing.. > > > That drawing tells me mine is DEFINITELY a Red Ball (unless there was a third one we don't know about). Actually, in the 1980's there WAS a third one, Cannonball Car Shops made one, I believe plastic , using the Red Ball dies. I also saw once a set of panel inserts you could add to a standard straight side hopper to make it a "panel side", Don't recall who did that though. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3267	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?

Dave: I am assuming that you have the Varney Wabash Hopper Car. Glad to have helped clearing that up. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3268	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?

This one is OLD. Process of elimination says RedBall. I have been filling voids, filing casting marks, trying to make it presentable. Would like to have a copy of original assembly drawings, so I can make it look somewhat like original, and have some sort of documentation with it. Fun stuff, resoring this old stuff.... Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 5:07 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RedBall or Varney hopper? > > > > Seems the Varney was not cast, but embossed metal sheet you bent to > > shape: > > > > http://hoseeker.net/varneyinformation/varneycatalog1941pg05.jpg > > > > So, Red Ball, need to find a drawing.. > > > > > > > That drawing tells me mine is DEFINITELY a Red Ball (unless there was a > third one we don't know about). > > Actually, in the 1980's there WAS a third one, Cannonball Car Shops made > one, I believe plastic , using the Red Ball dies. > > I also saw once a set of panel inserts you could add to a standard straight > side hopper to make it a "panel side", Don't recall who did that though. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3269	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

A picture would be nice.  It sounds like one I have, it is on a Hi F F7 that I think was probably the earliest model Athearn made.  Without a picture it is difficult to be certain.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: I have a motor, round part looks like the standard metal Athearn motors, but the tower it stands on is different, TALL, with brush holders in the base and LONG arms. Plate on the bottom, 2 screws, looks like it was designed to sandwich the fuel tank of a plastic chassis between the base and plate. Dave > > Several mfrs made drives for the Globe F-7's, before Globe themselves (or Athearn) did it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charles E. Kinzer > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:06 PM > Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > > Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold. Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see silver. Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and silver were the only choices originally. > > Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I have. I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DLeistikow@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals such as > Carl Traub as I recall. > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk Company, I > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces were offered > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but shorties, > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the information > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do have some of > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's production. > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation cars. A > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on rails. > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull the paint > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too close. > > Don L. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3270	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

I have come across several variations within the grouping of the Hi F drives. I'm going to assume that the motor as you describe it is the one that is found in some of the earlier Hi F drives that I have seen. There seems to be a sort of transition period from the Globe style of geared drive to the Hi F. The space where the motor sits on the older frames is actually deeper, and if you try to place one of the typical Hi F drive motors into it, you will see that the shafts are too short... but if you place the type of motor you describe in there... VIOLA!... IT FITS! I have some of these different types, I've tried to save one of each for myself through the years... I'll try to get some pictures on the site, along with the ones I promised earlier.     AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3271	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

You are on Yardbird? Look in photos, under "Jim Vaughn", the last two sets titled "Hi-F". I got those for repairs, you'll see the one I am talking about. Dave > > A picture would be nice. It sounds like one I have, it is on a Hi F F7 that I think was probably the earliest model Athearn made. Without a picture it is difficult to be certain. > > Wobbly913 > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > I have a motor, round part looks like the standard metal Athearn > motors, but the tower it stands on is different, TALL, with brush > holders in the base and LONG arms. > Plate on the bottom, 2 screws, looks like it was designed to > sandwich the fuel tank of a plastic chassis between the base and > plate. > Dave > > > > > Several mfrs made drives for the Globe F-7's, before Globe > themselves (or Athearn) did it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Charles E. Kinzer > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:06 PM > > Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > > > > > > Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold. > Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see > silver. Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least > U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and silver > were the only choices originally. > > > > Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, > $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I have. > I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only. > > > > Chuck Kinzer > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: DLeistikow@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > > > > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals > such as > > Carl Traub as I recall. > > > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk > Company, I > > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces > were offered > > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but > shorties, > > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the > information > > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do > have some of > > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's > production. > > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation > cars. A > > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on > rails. > > > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull > the paint > > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too > close. > > > > Don L. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3272	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

The Hi-F motors in the units I have have flat bottoms, while the tower drive have angled bottoms. Look at the photos in Yardbird under "Jim Vaughn", last two titled "Hi-F". I got those for parts and repairs. The one I am talking about is there. Dave > > I have come across several variations within the grouping of the Hi F drives. I'm going to assume that the motor as you describe it is the one that is found in some of the earlier Hi F drives that I have seen. There seems to be a sort of transition period from the Globe style of geared drive to the Hi F. The space where the motor sits on the older frames is actually deeper, and if you try to place one of the typical Hi F drive motors into it, you will see that the shafts are too short... but if you place the type of motor you describe in there... VIOLA!... IT FITS! I have some of these different types, I've tried to save one of each for myself through the years... I'll try to get some pictures on the site, along with the ones I promised earlier. > > > _____________________________________________________________________ ___ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3273	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

No, not on Yardbird.  If you can send a URL I will look. MRLENGUl sounds like he has the same thing I am talking about.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: You are on Yardbird? Look in photos, under "Jim Vaughn", the last two sets titled "Hi-F". I got those for repairs, you'll see the one I am talking about. Dave > > A picture would be nice. It sounds like one I have, it is on a Hi F F7 that I think was probably the earliest model Athearn made. Without a picture it is difficult to be certain. > > Wobbly913 > > curmudgeon wrote: > I have a motor, round part looks like the standard metal Athearn > motors, but the tower it stands on is different, TALL, with brush > holders in the base and LONG arms. > Plate on the bottom, 2 screws, looks like it was designed to > sandwich the fuel tank of a plastic chassis between the base and > plate. > Dave > > > > > Several mfrs made drives for the Globe F-7's, before Globe > themselves (or Athearn) did it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Charles E. Kinzer > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:06 PM > > Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > > > > > > Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold. > Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see > silver. Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least > U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and silver > were the only choices originally. > > > > Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, > $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I have. > I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only. > > > > Chuck Kinzer > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: DLeistikow@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > > > > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals > such as > > Carl Traub as I recall. > > > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk > Company, I > > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces > were offered > > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but > shorties, > > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the > information > > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do > have some of > > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's > production. > > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation > cars. A > > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on > rails. > > > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull > the paint > > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too > close. > > > > Don L. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3274	From: curmudgeon	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

You can't link like that with yahoo, I've found, so I sent you the picture via e-mail. Dave > > No, not on Yardbird. If you can send a URL I will look. MRLENGUl sounds like he has the same thing I am talking about. > > Wobbly913 > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > You are on Yardbird? > Look in photos, under "Jim Vaughn", the last two sets titled "Hi- F". > I got those for repairs, you'll see the one I am talking about. > Dave > > > > > A picture would be nice. It sounds like one I have, it is on a Hi > F F7 that I think was probably the earliest model Athearn made. > Without a picture it is difficult to be certain. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > curmudgeon wrote: > > I have a motor, round part looks like the standard metal Athearn > > motors, but the tower it stands on is different, TALL, with brush > > holders in the base and LONG arms. > > Plate on the bottom, 2 screws, looks like it was designed to > > sandwich the fuel tank of a plastic chassis between the base and > > plate. > > Dave > > > > > > > > Several mfrs made drives for the Globe F-7's, before Globe > > themselves (or Athearn) did it. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Charles E. Kinzer > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > > > > > > > > > > Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold. > > Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see > > silver. Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least > > U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and > silver > > were the only choices originally. > > > > > > Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, > > $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I > have. > > I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only. > > > > > > Chuck Kinzer > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: DLeistikow@ > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM > > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > > > > > > > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals > > such as > > > Carl Traub as I recall. > > > > > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk > > Company, I > > > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces > > were offered > > > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > > > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but > > shorties, > > > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > > > > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the > > information > > > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do > > have some of > > > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's > > production. > > > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > > > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation > > cars. A > > > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on > > rails. > > > > > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull > > the paint > > > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too > > close. > > > > > > Don L. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3275	From: Wobbly913	Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

Got your email, the pictue on the left is the same basic motor I am talking about.  Mine is in an F unit frame for HI F drive.  The motors on the right are more like the ones I have in later production Hi f  F units as well as GP7's and the early runs of RDC cars as well as the early Hustler engines. I also have some other units that have that same (right hand) design.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: You can't link like that with yahoo, I've found, so I sent you the picture via e-mail. Dave > > No, not on Yardbird. If you can send a URL I will look. MRLENGUl sounds like he has the same thing I am talking about. > > Wobbly913 > > curmudgeon wrote: > You are on Yardbird? > Look in photos, under "Jim Vaughn", the last two sets titled "Hi- F". > I got those for repairs, you'll see the one I am talking about. > Dave > > > > > A picture would be nice. It sounds like one I have, it is on a Hi > F F7 that I think was probably the earliest model Athearn made. > Without a picture it is difficult to be certain. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > curmudgeon wrote: > > I have a motor, round part looks like the standard metal Athearn > > motors, but the tower it stands on is different, TALL, with brush > > holders in the base and LONG arms. > > Plate on the bottom, 2 screws, looks like it was designed to > > sandwich the fuel tank of a plastic chassis between the base and > > plate. > > Dave > > > > > > > > Several mfrs made drives for the Globe F-7's, before Globe > > themselves (or Athearn) did it. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Charles E. Kinzer > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > > > > > > > > > > Globe F units also came in unlettered silver as well as gold. > > Most of what you see on ebay is gold, but occasionally you see > > silver. Globe F-7's were also painted and lettered for at least > > U.P, Santa Fe, and SP Black Widow, but I presume the gold and > silver > > were the only choices originally. > > > > > > Kemtron made "KEMTRON KIT for Globe F-7 Power and Lighting, > > $15.95" according to the labels on the box ends of a couple I > have. > > I'm pretty sure they also made a seperate kit for lighting only. > > > > > > Chuck Kinzer > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: DLeistikow@ > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:58 PM > > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying > > > > > > > > > Group: The Globe Line was produced in Milwaukee, by locals > > such as > > > Carl Traub as I recall. > > > > > > The earliest offering, was sponsored by Carnation Milk > > Company, I > > > believe as a 'premium' promotional tool. Individual pieces > > were offered > > > with the F units (A and B) painted in gold, with no lettering. > > > Passenger cars were of the streamlined type, fluted sides but > > shorties, > > > except for the RPO car which was a full sized reproduction. > > > > > > Erv Athearn did buy up the Globe line but, I do not have the > > information > > > of the time frame in which Globe existed. Personally, I do > > have some of > > > the Globe production and a number of pieces from Athearn's > > production. > > > A Santa Fe A-B-B-A set, twin gear powered and some twenty or so > > > passenger cars, including a couple of 'boat tail' observation > > cars. A > > > long train of these does make an impressive appearance on > > rails. > > > > > > That brace of locomotive power will clean the rails and pull > > the paint > > > off the walls as they pass by so, don't build your track too > > close. > > > > > > Don L. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3276	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Globe Drive unit Photos

I've posted a whole bunch of photos of Globes, Athearn, and other various makers of drives for the F units. In the photo section under Globes, Hi Fs, and Athearns. Sadly, I still have more... and I'm sure that there are some that I missed. Enjoy. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3277	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Globe Drive unit Photos

I have been watching for one of the clear f7 shells for some time, no luck till now.  Now I see I have to also look for  Kemtron and  Hobbytown drives.  That will give me something to look on ebay for.  The rest I have. MRLENGAL2U@... wrote:    I've posted a whole bunch of photos of Globes, Athearn, and other various makers of drives for the F units. In the photo section under Globes, Hi Fs, and Athearns. Sadly, I still have more... and I'm sure that there are some that I missed. Enjoy. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3278	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying

I'm pretty sure the early motors used in the Hi-F diesels were used in both the F-7 and the Hustler. The design of the motor changed over time in order to address the problem of the rubber band (drive belt??) creeping off the end of the shaft. The problem became severe over the time the rubber band was actually in use. A new rubber band usually would solve that problem but it was a good idea to replace them all when one broke or you would soon find yourself taking it apart again as each rubber band in turn broke. The changes incorporated over time did little to cure problems of creeping bands and made it harder to replace the bands. Then there was the Pittman conversion that made band replacement even tougher. Even so, I have several Hustlers and F7's as well as the Pittman conversion. Although I don't do it now it was a thrill to race the things. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: > > I have come across several variations within the grouping of the Hi F drives. I'm going to assume that the motor as you describe it is the one that is found in some of the earlier Hi F drives that I have seen. There seems to be a sort of transition period from the Globe style of geared drive to the Hi F. The space where the motor sits on the older frames is actually deeper, and if you try to place one of the typical Hi F drive motors into it, you will see that the shafts are too short... but if you place the type of motor you describe in there... VIOLA!... IT FITS! I have some of these different types, I've tried to save one of each for myself through the years... I'll try to get some pictures on the site, along with the ones I promised earlier. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3279	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)

Don and Glenn, I have a Kadee also, I just happened to be intrigued to see an item on eBay that I had just read a fifty-year old review of in MR. The spiker should be handy doing turnouts (that is where the Kadee has its limitations.) Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I had one, I forget who made it, it was a base that fit over the rails, supposedly keeping them in gauge, then you droped four spikes in the holes, ROUND head brass pins actually, and a handle with four pins on it that then pushed all four "spikes" in at the same time. I was using the Tru-Scale milled roadbed at the time, and it worked actually rather well. > > We used a Kadee at the club, if I was going to handlay today I would find a Kadee. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3280	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)

I have one of those 4-spike gizmos. I haven't used it in at least 30 years. I also have a few dozen of the special "spikes" - more like very tiny nails/pins. I would imagine that the spikes would be virtually impossible to find. I would also imagine that its use on anything smaller than code 100 rail might be limited. Mike mmattjcoleman wrote: > > > Don and Glenn, > > I have a Kadee also, I just happened to be intrigued to see an item on > eBay that I had just read a fifty-year old review of in MR. The spiker > should be handy doing turnouts (that is where the Kadee has its > limitations.) > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: > > > > I had one, I forget who made it, it was a base that fit over the > rails, supposedly keeping them in gauge, then you droped four spikes in > the holes, ROUND head brass pins actually, and a handle with four pins > on it that then pushed all four "spikes" in at the same time. I was > using the Tru-Scale milled roadbed at the time, and it worked actually > rather well. > > > > We used a Kadee at the club, if I was going to handlay today I would > find a Kadee. > > > > Don > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3281	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: FW: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)

Kadee's ;have not make the spiker for quite some time now, correct? Are replacement parts ( Cutter Heads, Spikes, etc ) still available from Kadee? Does anyone in this group have one they would be interested in selling? ( If so, please contact me off list. ) Matt, what issue was the 50 year review of your tool.......:-) in again?? Would like to investigate the article as I have always been very interested in hand laid track and tools used to do so. Enjoy watching the discussions of this group. Am old enough to remember quite a few of the topics even though not always my fortea (?) but then these diamonds pop up and voila.............:-) Thanks for the group & any help anyone can offer. Loren Martell ============================================================= >From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> >Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff) >Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:17:04 -0000 > >Don and Glenn, > >I have a Kadee also, I just happened to be intrigued to see an item on >eBay that I had just read a fifty-year old review of in MR. The spiker >should be handy doing turnouts (that is where the Kadee has its >limitations.) > >Matt _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3282	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: FW: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)

I just saw a Kadee spiker go on eBay for well over $100 a couple of weeks ago... I was shocked! I also have the Lindsay, but have yet to use it. I see the spikes go there as well... Prices vary, sometimes $20 or more per box. I have a couple boxes and have no idea if I will ever use them.... Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Kadee's ;have not make the spiker for quite some time now, correct? Are replacement parts ( Cutter Heads, Spikes, etc ) still available from Kadee? Does anyone in this group have one they would be interested in selling? ( If so, please contact me off list. ) Matt, what issue was the 50 year review of your tool.......: -) in again?? Would like to investigate the article as I have always been very interested in hand laid track and tools used to do so. Enjoy watching the discussions of this group. Am old enough to remember quite a few of the topics even though not always my fortea (?) but then these diamonds pop up and voila....... ......:-) Thanks for the group & any help anyone can offer. Loren Martell ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ==== >From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@ netscape. net> >Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Subject: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff) >Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:17:04 -0000 > >Don and Glenn, > >I have a Kadee also, I just happened to be intrigued to see an item on >eBay that I had just read a fifty-year old review of in MR. The spiker >should be handy doing turnouts (that is where the Kadee has its >limitations. ) > >Matt ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecred itreport. com/pm/default. aspx?sc=660600& bcd=EMAILFOOTERA VERAGE Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3283	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: FW: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)

Loren, The review was in the April 1954 issue of Model Railroader on page 14. And from what I have been told from others, KaDee does not have any parts for the spiker in inventory any more. I bought mine on eBay for well over $100 about four years ago but it had all three heads and a couple of thousand spikes. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: > > Kadee's ;have not make the spiker for quite some time now, correct? > > Are replacement parts ( Cutter Heads, Spikes, etc ) still available from > Kadee? > > Does anyone in this group have one they would be interested in selling? > ( If so, please contact me off list. ) > > Matt, what issue was the 50 year review of your tool.......:-) in again?? > Would like to investigate the article as I have always been very interested > in hand laid track and tools used to do so. > > Enjoy watching the discussions of this group. Am old enough to remember > quite > a few of the topics even though not always my fortea (?) but then these > diamonds pop up and voila.............:-) > > Thanks for the group & any help anyone can offer. > > Loren Martell > =============================================================

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3284	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)

Kadee still supports the spiker with spikes and parts.  No new complete spikers although  according to Sam you could order one part-by-part and build one. There's a whole section of the warehouse with the parts --gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: mattjcoleman@... Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:42 AM Subject: FW: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff) Kadee's ;have not make the spiker for quite some time now, correct? Are replacement parts ( Cutter Heads, Spikes, etc ) still available from Kadee? Does anyone in this group have one they would be interested in selling? ( If so, please contact me off list. ) Matt, what issue was the 50 year review of your tool.......: -) in again?? Would like to investigate the article as I have always been very interested in hand laid track and tools used to do so. Enjoy watching the discussions of this group. Am old enough to remember quite a few of the topics even though not always my fortea (?) but then these diamonds pop up and voila....... ......:-) Thanks for the group & any help anyone can offer. Loren Martell ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ==== >From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@ netscape. net> >Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Subject: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff) >Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:17:04 -0000 > >Don and Glenn, > >I have a Kadee also, I just happened to be intrigued to see an item on >eBay that I had just read a fifty-year old review of in MR. The spiker >should be handy doing turnouts (that is where the Kadee has its >limitations. ) > >Matt ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecred itreport. com/pm/default. aspx?sc=660600& bcd=EMAILFOOTERA VERAGE

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3285	From: Michael F. Looney	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)

Loren & Matt:  If you go to there web site you will see that they still list part for there spiker, and that they still carry the spikes.  Mike Looney

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3286	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)

Mike I found them just like you said. (Now all I need is to find the "Spiker".........:-) Thank you. Loren _________________________________________________________________ Interest Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18466&moid=7581

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3287	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck

I just got to a stopping point on this old Varney embossed-carboard boxcar, and went to mount the fixed dummy couplers. I wasn't going to use the brass pins, since one was gone anyway, so had some spare wood screws from some Mantua couplers, but had to open the hole a bit on the shank. Thought they were plastic, but they are blackened brass. With the visor on, I could see a name, barely, on the shank. Magnifying glass and visor, could make out on both "LINDSAY". Had no idea. Truck idetification: Another old paper-side boxcar, with glue-on cast ends and doors. One truck is a later Varney, with the shouldered screws. The other....well, either the sideframes and truck bolster were cast in one piece, or factory assembled and painted or blackened (without removing all the flash). The bottom of the journal boxes are open, with lead "ears" (trucks are high lead content) you "bend over" once you drop the wheelsets in. Any idea who made it? I would like to have matching trucks, one way or the other, I can find a Varney, but maybe this is a better deal for "vintage"? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3288	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck

Dave: Sounds like you have a mixed bag of kits and parts. Sometimes, it is easier to separate parts from the basic kits and inventory by manufacuturer. You can then make a list of original parts that are missing and post that on the internet. That is, if you intend to restore old kits to original completed models. I have done some of that myself. To have a completed original car with original components, is to have a collectors model. To cross kit parts, is to improve an old model with more modern or later parts for operation with todays model trains. I have both, where I have duplicate model cars. Your mixed parts kits, sounds like someone threw any available parts into the box to complete a kit for sale to unsuspecting buyers. So, what you will want to do, is to decide if you want to restore missing or foreign parts to your kits, which would then give you an authentic collectors model or... buy new parts to complete the kit as an upgrade to add your kit model to your train operation. Either, will produce a fine model. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3289	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck

True. This person obviously used what was at hand. I just needed to find the manufacturer of this one truck to get some idea as to which trucks fit this car best for the era. Dave > > Dave: Sounds like you have a mixed bag of kits and parts. > > Sometimes, it is easier to separate parts from the basic kits and > inventory by manufacuturer. You can then make a list of original parts > that are missing and post that on the internet. That is, if you intend > to restore old kits to original completed models. I have done some of > that myself. > > To have a completed original car with original components, is to have a > collectors model. To cross kit parts, is to improve an old model with > more modern or later parts for operation with todays model trains. I > have both, where I have duplicate model cars. > > Your mixed parts kits, sounds like someone threw any available parts > into the box to complete a kit for sale to unsuspecting buyers. So, > what you will want to do, is to decide if you want to restore missing or > foreign parts to your kits, which would then give you an authentic > collectors model or... buy new parts to complete the kit as an upgrade > to add your kit model to your train operation. > > Either, will produce a fine model. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3290	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck

Dave, Can you post a picture...? I have a couple hundred trucks lose in several boxes. I could send you over one, if a match is what you are looking for. If I have it, of course. Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: True. This person obviously used what was at hand. I just needed to find the manufacturer of this one truck to get some idea as to which trucks fit this car best for the era. Dave > > Dave: Sounds like you have a mixed bag of kits and parts. > > Sometimes, it is easier to separate parts from the basic kits and > inventory by manufacuturer. You can then make a list of original parts > that are missing and post that on the internet. That is, if you intend > to restore old kits to original completed models. I have done some of > that myself. > > To have a completed original car with original components, is to have a > collectors model. To cross kit parts, is to improve an old model with > more modern or later parts for operation with todays model trains. I > have both, where I have duplicate model cars. > > Your mixed parts kits, sounds like someone threw any available parts > into the box to complete a kit for sale to unsuspecting buyers. So, > what you will want to do, is to decide if you want to restore missing or > foreign parts to your kits, which would then give you an authentic > collectors model or... buy new parts to complete the kit as an upgrade > to add your kit model to your train operation. > > Either, will produce a fine model. > > Don L. > Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3291	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck

Photo is in my plans for the day.... Dentist is on the list for the moment, however. I'll get a pix off later. Dave > > Dave, > Can you post a picture...? I have a couple hundred trucks lose in several boxes. I could send you over one, if a match is what you are looking for. If I have it, of course. > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > True. > This person obviously used what was at hand. > I just needed to find the manufacturer of this one truck to get some > idea as to which trucks fit this car best for the era. > Dave > > > > > Dave: Sounds like you have a mixed bag of kits and > parts. > > > > Sometimes, it is easier to separate parts from the basic kits and > > inventory by manufacuturer. You can then make a list of original > parts > > that are missing and post that on the internet. That is, if you > intend > > to restore old kits to original completed models. I have done > some of > > that myself. > > > > To have a completed original car with original components, is to > have a > > collectors model. To cross kit parts, is to improve an old model > with > > more modern or later parts for operation with todays model > trains. I > > have both, where I have duplicate model > cars. > > > > Your mixed parts kits, sounds like someone threw any available > parts > > into the box to complete a kit for sale to unsuspecting buyers. > So, > > what you will want to do, is to decide if you want to restore > missing or > > foreign parts to your kits, which would then give you an authentic > > collectors model or... buy new parts to complete the kit as an > upgrade > > to add your kit model to your train operation. > > > > Either, will produce a fine model. > > > > Don L. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3292	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Unidentified photos up in album

under, what else, "Unidentifed truck....." Just trying to place manufacturer and year, so when I sort out this one car with mis-matched trucks, I cane determine which truck to find a duplicate of. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3293	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: Unidentified photos up in album

I am not sure who made that truck but I think I have one. I'll check and let you know. curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: under, what else, "Unidentifed truck....." Just trying to place manufacturer and year, so when I sort out this one car with mis-matched trucks, I cane determine which truck to find a duplicate of. Dave Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3294	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: Unidentified photos up in album

I concur.... Sean Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...> wrote: I am not sure who made that truck but I think I have one. I'll check and let you know. curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: under, what else, "Unidentifed truck....." Just trying to place manufacturer and year, so when I sort out this one car with mis-matched trucks, I cane determine which truck to find a duplicate of. Dave Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3295	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck

I recall a lot of car kits being sold "Less Trucks and Couplers" back in that era.  So there might not be any truly "correct" parts--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck True. This person obviously used what was at hand. I just needed to find the manufacturer of this one truck to get some idea as to which trucks fit this car best for the era. Dave > > Dave: Sounds like you have a mixed bag of kits and parts. > > Sometimes, it is easier to separate parts from the basic kits and > inventory by manufacuturer. You can then make a list of original parts > that are missing and post that on the internet. That is, if you intend > to restore old kits to original completed models. I have done some of > that myself. > > To have a completed original car with original components, is to have a > collectors model. To cross kit parts, is to improve an old model with > more modern or later parts for operation with todays model trains. I > have both, where I have duplicate model cars. > > Your mixed parts kits, sounds like someone threw any available parts > into the box to complete a kit for sale to unsuspecting buyers. So, > what you will want to do, is to decide if you want to restore missing or > foreign parts to your kits, which would then give you an authentic > collectors model or... buy new parts to complete the kit as an upgrade > to add your kit model to your train operation. > > Either, will produce a fine model. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3296	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck

True. But if this is the early truck at least on has told me it is, and the car is as early as it seems, I don't want later trucks. Car appears to be a B-10 Varney Union Pacific from the 1939 catalog. Probably showed up with the pre-war Varney Docksider I just finished today. Dave > > I recall a lot of car kits being sold "Less Trucks and Couplers" back in that era. So there might not be any truly "correct" parts-- gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:28 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck > > > True. > This person obviously used what was at hand. > I just needed to find the manufacturer of this one truck to get some > idea as to which trucks fit this car best for the era. > Dave > > > > > Dave: Sounds like you have a mixed bag of kits and > parts. > > > > Sometimes, it is easier to separate parts from the basic kits and > > inventory by manufacuturer. You can then make a list of original > parts > > that are missing and post that on the internet. That is, if you > intend > > to restore old kits to original completed models. I have done > some of > > that myself. > > > > To have a completed original car with original components, is to > have a > > collectors model. To cross kit parts, is to improve an old model > with > > more modern or later parts for operation with todays model > trains. I > > have both, where I have duplicate model > cars. > > > > Your mixed parts kits, sounds like someone threw any available > parts > > into the box to complete a kit for sale to unsuspecting buyers. > So, > > what you will want to do, is to decide if you want to restore > missing or > > foreign parts to your kits, which would then give you an authentic > > collectors model or... buy new parts to complete the kit as an > upgrade > > to add your kit model to your train operation. > > > > Either, will produce a fine model. > > > > Don L. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3297	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/3/2007
Subject: Another identifier

Have a boxcar, good shape, need one end roofwalk, I can remember assembling these decades ago, you think I can remember who made them? Stamped tin sides, ends, roof, doors. Doors open. Nice ladders and grab irons, all on a wood box, wood floor, tin sill, tin tapered I-beam floor braces, cast coupler box with cast dummy coupler, box held in with 4 pins ito flat plates extending off the box. This one is UP, 40 foot box, tuscan in color, need to find one end walkway piece, has a hole in the roof to accept a peg on the back. I can paint. One more, embossed paper Varney box, the black plastic or whatever end beams...... I have one full one and just over 1/3 of the other. Need one to finish it off, anybody have a spare. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3298	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/3/2007
Subject: Re: Another identifier

If that were O Scale, I'd bet Athearn--they might have done HO cars the same, but I recall another design. ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Another identifier Have a boxcar, good shape, need one end roofwalk, I can remember assembling these decades ago, you think I can remember who made them? Stamped tin sides, ends, roof, doors. Doors open. Nice ladders and grab irons, all on a wood box, wood floor, tin sill, tin tapered I-beam floor braces, cast coupler box with cast dummy coupler, box held in with 4 pins ito flat plates extending off the box. This one is UP, 40 foot box, tuscan in color, need to find one end walkway piece, has a hole in the roof to accept a peg on the back. I can paint. One more, embossed paper Varney box, the black plastic or whatever end beams...... I have one full one and just over 1/3 of the other. Need one to finish it off, anybody have a spare. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3299	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/3/2007
Subject: Re: Another identifier

I thought so too, based on the Athearn "0" stuff I have. Finally found a drawing on hoseeker in the 1954 catalog, it is Athearn. It's called a "cast platform". Anybody got a spare in a junquebox, and color? Dave > > If that were O Scale, I'd bet Athearn--they might have done HO cars the same, but I recall another design. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 4:51 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Another identifier > > > Have a boxcar, good shape, need one end roofwalk, I can remember > assembling these decades ago, you think I can remember who made them? > > Stamped tin sides, ends, roof, doors. > Doors open. > Nice ladders and grab irons, all on a wood box, wood floor, tin sill, > tin tapered I-beam floor braces, cast coupler box with cast dummy > coupler, box held in with 4 pins ito flat plates extending off the box. > > This one is UP, 40 foot box, tuscan in color, need to find one end > walkway piece, has a hole in the roof to accept a peg on the back. > > I can paint. > > One more, embossed paper Varney box, the black plastic or whatever end > beams...... > > I have one full one and just over 1/3 of the other. > Need one to finish it off, anybody have a spare. > > Thanks. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3300	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another identifier

one thing that seems to yell out "Athearn!"  is the stamped steel parts being made from what apparently was tinplate sheet printed for someone else--like Coca Cola (caps) gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Another identifier I thought so too, based on the Athearn "0" stuff I have. Finally found a drawing on hoseeker in the 1954 catalog, it is Athearn. It's called a "cast platform". Anybody got a spare in a junquebox, and color? Dave > > If that were O Scale, I'd bet Athearn--they might have done HO cars the same, but I recall another design. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 4:51 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Another identifier > > > Have a boxcar, good shape, need one end roofwalk, I can remember > assembling these decades ago, you think I can remember who made them? > > Stamped tin sides, ends, roof, doors. > Doors open. > Nice ladders and grab irons, all on a wood box, wood floor, tin sill, > tin tapered I-beam floor braces, cast coupler box with cast dummy > coupler, box held in with 4 pins ito flat plates extending off the box. > > This one is UP, 40 foot box, tuscan in color, need to find one end > walkway piece, has a hole in the roof to accept a peg on the back. > > I can paint. > > One more, embossed paper Varney box, the black plastic or whatever end > beams...... > > I have one full one and just over 1/3 of the other. > Need one to finish it off, anybody have a spare. > > Thanks. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3301	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Finally shipped off the rebuilds

Last of it. My brother came over for an ops session last night, the re- built and hand-railed Athearn SW, the rebuilt Athearn UP Hi-F A-B-A with 2 powered units, all couplers, the really bad Riv 0-6-0 with repaired frame, driver, new pilot, runs fine, and the Riv 2-8-0 with a complete NWSL re-power. All the Athearn dismal bits in a bag, so he's got it all. He is thinking maybe this Fall putting rail up, so perchance we can run some of this stuff. Feels good to be down to just the die-cast stuff.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3302	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Mantua freight car

Just dug into another one to re-kit. I just love it when a company is proud enough of what they build to put their name on it. This is an aluminum floor, aluminum inner side, brass roof, cast end and cast frame car. There are cast roof ice hatches, which have pegs that drop though .190" holes in the roof, with cup washers and screws to hold everything together. The hatches say "Mantua" on the bottom, the ends say "Mantua" on the inside, and the frame says "Mantua" on top, none of which is visible when fully assembled. Even has the early Mantua trucks with the .150" axles with double- insulated brass wheels. The bad part is the sides. They are orange Great Northern......and have the separate paper BOXCAR DOORS glued on. Not much chance of fixing the ice hatches, since boxcars have two platforms, and this has 4 with roof holes to match. So, I gotta find me a set of Reefer doors someplace. I can finish it, and get those later. Oddly, one end has fixed later knuckle, the other end has the EARLY fixed knuckle, big round unit. Seen them in Varney catalogs, claimed the two won't work together......well, they can be made to work together fairly easily. Next one to finish! Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3303	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua freight car

Dave--the reefer sides are one piece, including the doors.  I can check and see what I may have--if I don't get back to you in a couple of days shake my cage!.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua freight car Just dug into another one to re-kit. I just love it when a company is proud enough of what they build to put their name on it. This is an aluminum floor, aluminum inner side, brass roof, cast end and cast frame car. There are cast roof ice hatches, which have pegs that drop though .190" holes in the roof, with cup washers and screws to hold everything together. The hatches say "Mantua" on the bottom, the ends say "Mantua" on the inside, and the frame says "Mantua" on top, none of which is visible when fully assembled. Even has the early Mantua trucks with the .150" axles with double- insulated brass wheels. The bad part is the sides. They are orange Great Northern.... ..and have the separate paper BOXCAR DOORS glued on. Not much chance of fixing the ice hatches, since boxcars have two platforms, and this has 4 with roof holes to match. So, I gotta find me a set of Reefer doors someplace. I can finish it, and get those later. Oddly, one end has fixed later knuckle, the other end has the EARLY fixed knuckle, big round unit. Seen them in Varney catalogs, claimed the two won't work together.... ..well, they can be made to work together fairly easily. Next one to finish! Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3304	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua freight car

Will do! I got the boxcar sides off, cleaned the corrosion off the aluminum, de-flashed the parts, just finished getting a half-century of grime off the unpainted brass roof. I'll paint it and the ends when dry. I can assemble the entire car, put sides on later. I will have to make some end steps. Those brass jobbies.....one is there. But, hey, it's a challenge! Dave > Dave--the reefer sides are one piece, including the doors. I can check and see what I may have--if I don't get back to you in a couple of days shake my cage!. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua freight car > > > Just dug into another one to re-kit. > > I just love it when a company is proud enough of what they build to > put their name on it. > This is an aluminum floor, aluminum inner side, brass roof, cast end > and cast frame car. > > There are cast roof ice hatches, which have pegs that drop > though .190" holes in the roof, with cup washers and screws to hold > everything together. > The hatches say "Mantua" on the bottom, the ends say "Mantua" on the > inside, and the frame says "Mantua" on top, none of which is visible > when fully assembled. > Even has the early Mantua trucks with the .150" axles with double- > insulated brass wheels. > > The bad part is the sides. > They are orange Great Northern......and have the separate paper > BOXCAR DOORS glued on. > > Not much chance of fixing the ice hatches, since boxcars have two > platforms, and this has 4 with roof holes to match. > So, I gotta find me a set of Reefer doors someplace. > I can finish it, and get those later. > Oddly, one end has fixed later knuckle, the other end has the EARLY > fixed knuckle, big round unit. Seen them in Varney catalogs, claimed > the two won't work together......well, they can be made to work > together fairly easily. > > Next one to finish! > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3305	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)

FWIW, the Rivarossi Hiawatha on eBay in Great Britain last week sold for $ 113.00 US (prox, 57.66 £). I didn't get it of course. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3306	From: cgls@btinternet.com	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)

Hi Don,   According to the winners history he recently bought a body only in near mint condition on eBay Italy for a lot more!!   I have a vague recollection of similar models being advertised in some 1950s UK model magazines (Model Railway News and Model Railway Constructor.) so perhaps it was only made for the European Market which is rather odd considering it resembles a US prototype.   Moving on to a slightly different part of our wonderful hobby. I have decided to sell up all my vintage (and not so vintage!) US equipment and concentrate on my Vintage British project (Using models and materials made before 1966 with centre 3rd rail pickup.) therefore I have a quantity of vintage US H0 parts: loco chassis, freight trucks, wheels, etc. to dispose of. I would like to trade them for primarily British equipment or 1950s US line-side parts if anyone is interested please contact me off group.   Happy Easter to all from a rather sunny Manchester, UK   Chris Smith Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: FWIW, the Rivarossi Hiawatha on eBay in Great Britain last week sold for $ 113.00 US (prox, 57.66 £). I didn't get it of course. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3307	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

Hello Guys! I have another mystery here.. My first guess was that this was a Ken Kidder all the way.. I just picked it up. I will add pics with my first reply... as usual. It is a very interesting Mystery piece.. Now, I am curious as to what this is.... The listing states... "Locomotive says (electric no 1 locomotive) on front. Has working windows and doors, motor says (New Haven trade mark U.S.arround star)a very early electric motor flat copper rides commutator instead of brushes." Ultimately, I would like to enter it into my core collection, as I try to do with all the brass I buy. I have this same info search on Dan Bush's site as well. Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3308	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

Now the pics...       Sean a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hello Guys! I have another mystery here.. My first guess was that this was a Ken Kidder all the way.. I just picked it up. I will add pics with my first reply... as usual. It is a very interesting Mystery piece.. Now, I am curious as to what this is.... The listing states... "Locomotive says (electric no 1 locomotive) on front. Has working windows and doors, motor says (New Haven trade mark U.S.arround star)a very early electric motor flat copper rides commutator instead of brushes." Ultimately, I would like to enter it into my core collection, as I try to do with all the brass I buy. I have this same info search on Dan Bush's site as well. Sean Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3309	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hello Guys! I have another mystery here.. My first guess was that this was a Ken Kidder all the way.. I just picked it up. I will add pics with my first reply... as usual. It is a very interesting Mystery piece.. Now, I am curious as to what this is.... The listing states... "Locomotive says (electric no 1 locomotive) on front. Has working windows and doors, motor says (New Haven trade mark U.S.arround star)a very early electric motor flat copper rides commutator instead of brushes." Ultimately, I would like to enter it into my core collection, as I try to do with all the brass I buy. I have this same info search on Dan Bush's site as well. Sean The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3310	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua freight car

Dave--found some reefer sides--full set "Berkshire Ham & Bacon,yellow & red,  one side for Borden Fine Cheeses Blue/white/red   I had an address when you were looking for the bearings, but can't find it now.  Whatever you think the sides are worth to you--  Glenn Joesten ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 6:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua freight car Will do! I got the boxcar sides off, cleaned the corrosion off the aluminum, de-flashed the parts, just finished getting a half-century of grime off the unpainted brass roof. I'll paint it and the ends when dry. I can assemble the entire car, put sides on later. I will have to make some end steps. Those brass jobbies..... one is there. But, hey, it's a challenge! Dave > Dave--the reefer sides are one piece, including the doors. I can check and see what I may have--if I don't get back to you in a couple of days shake my cage!. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua freight car > > > Just dug into another one to re-kit. > > I just love it when a company is proud enough of what they build to > put their name on it. > This is an aluminum floor, aluminum inner side, brass roof, cast end > and cast frame car. > > There are cast roof ice hatches, which have pegs that drop > though .190" holes in the roof, with cup washers and screws to hold > everything together. > The hatches say "Mantua" on the bottom, the ends say "Mantua" on the > inside, and the frame says "Mantua" on top, none of which is visible > when fully assembled. > Even has the early Mantua trucks with the .150" axles with double- > insulated brass wheels. > > The bad part is the sides. > They are orange Great Northern.... ..and have the separate paper > BOXCAR DOORS glued on. > > Not much chance of fixing the ice hatches, since boxcars have two > platforms, and this has 4 with roof holes to match. > So, I gotta find me a set of Reefer doors someplace. > I can finish it, and get those later. > Oddly, one end has fixed later knuckle, the other end has the EARLY > fixed knuckle, big round unit. Seen them in Varney catalogs, claimed > the two won't work together.... ..well, they can be made to work > together fairly easily. > > Next one to finish! > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3311	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

Sorrry John, Bur I do not see your message.... Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hello Guys! I have another mystery here.. My first guess was that this was a Ken Kidder all the way.. I just picked it up. I will add pics with my first reply... as usual. It is a very interesting Mystery piece.. Now, I am curious as to what this is.... The listing states... "Locomotive says (electric no 1 locomotive) on front. Has working windows and doors, motor says (New Haven trade mark U.S.arround star)a very early electric motor flat copper rides commutator instead of brushes." Ultimately, I would like to enter it into my core collection, as I try to do with all the brass I buy. I have this same info search on Dan Bush's site as well. Sean The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3312	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)

It more than resembles a US prototype.  It's a Milwaukee Road "Class A", four were built in 1934 for the "Hiawatha", the first streamlined train in the US that actually used separate cars rather than being articulated like the UP "City" trains and the CB&Q "Zephyrs".  The prototypes ran from Chicago, IL to St. Paul, MN, via Milwaukee, WI (and right past the house I grew up in, though before my time, my mother was growing up there then <G>)  on what at the time was one of the fastest regular schedules in the world.   We've pretty much determined the model was actually made by Rivarossi, in the USA it was sold by Aristocraft.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: cgls@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?) Hi Don,   According to the winners history he recently bought a body only in near mint condition on eBay Italy for a lot more!!   I have a vague recollection of similar models being advertised in some 1950s UK model magazines (Model Railway News and Model Railway Constructor.) so perhaps it was only made for the European Market which is rather odd considering it resembles a US prototype.   Moving on to a slightly different part of our wonderful hobby. I have decided to sell up all my vintage (and not so vintage!) US equipment and concentrate on my Vintage British project (Using models and materials made before 1966 with centre 3rd rail pickup.) therefore I have a quantity of vintage US H0 parts: loco chassis, freight trucks, wheels, etc. to dispose of. I would like to trade them for primarily British equipment or 1950s US line-side parts if anyone is interested please contact me off group.   Happy Easter to all from a rather sunny Manchester, UK   Chris Smith Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: FWIW, the Rivarossi Hiawatha on eBay in Great Britain last week sold for $ 113.00 US (prox, 57.66 £). I didn't get it of course. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3313	From: cnj999	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek Cars

Many here are unboubtedly familiar with Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek cars, a group that started with the singled truck Piker Pullman car kit about 1961. This was followed by the single truck Oscar observation car kit a few years later. And the pair were revived in plastic form in 2000. While the Piker and Oscar had long production lives, down through the years Walthers has added occasionally and briefly to this collection. There was a "Peanut One", intended to poke a little fun at President Jimmy Carter. Likewise, there was a "Jailbox" car around 1980, playing off the Railbox cars of the time. The early 1980's saw a quite literal "Beer Can" tank car, making fun of the shorty tank cars that were appearing. And often listed with these cars was the John Allen "Impact Car", although it had an actual and more serious purpose on the layout. Does anyone know if there any others in this series? I've been searching around but can find very little information regarding any but the Piker and Oscar. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3314	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. One side drops .080", the other .132". I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes there. Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it just exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate that glued on? I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and install Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back on it's feet waiting sides. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3315	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 11:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers >I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > One side drops .080", the other .132". > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > there. > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it just > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate that > glued on? > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and install > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back on > it's feet waiting sides. > > Thanks. > Dave On mine the sides came to the TOP of the floor, leaving the side sills exposed. There's a photo in my "xDon Dellmann's stuff/Mantua" album at the group home page. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3316	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)

I know the Rivarossi "Hiawatha" was actually sold in the USA. The hobby shop where I worked in Cleveland had several of them for sale in the late 60's. It was a very fine example of the real thing. My only quarrel with the model was the terrible motor in the thing. The motor was fine when new but wasn't built to last and was a nightmare to fix (many very small ball bearings on each end of the motor shaft). Same motor was used in other Rivarossi and Lionel HO offerings - same problems. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > It more than resembles a US prototype. It's a Milwaukee Road "Class A", four were built in 1934 for the "Hiawatha", the first streamlined train in the US that actually used separate cars rather than being articulated like the UP "City" trains and the CB&Q "Zephyrs". The prototypes ran from Chicago, IL to St. Paul, MN, via Milwaukee, WI (and right past the house I grew up in, though before my time, my mother was growing up there then <G>) on what at the time was one of the fastest regular schedules in the world. > > We've pretty much determined the model was actually made by Rivarossi, in the USA it was sold by Aristocraft. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: cgls@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 1:11 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?) > > > Hi Don, > > According to the winners history he recently bought a body only in near mint condition on eBay Italy for a lot more!! > > I have a vague recollection of similar models being advertised in some 1950s UK model magazines (Model Railway News and Model Railway Constructor.) so perhaps it was only made for the European Market which is rather odd considering it resembles a US prototype. > > Moving on to a slightly different part of our wonderful hobby. I have decided to sell up all my vintage (and not so vintage!) US equipment and concentrate on my Vintage British project (Using models and materials made before 1966 with centre 3rd rail pickup.) therefore I have a quantity of vintage US H0 parts: loco chassis, freight trucks, wheels, etc. to dispose of. I would like to trade them for primarily British equipment or 1950s US line-side parts if anyone is interested please contact me off group. > > Happy Easter to all from a rather sunny Manchester, UK > > Chris Smith > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > FWIW, the Rivarossi Hiawatha on eBay in Great Britain last week sold for $ > 113.00 US (prox, 57.66 £). I didn't get it of course. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3317	From: erieberk	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Dave, Actually, on these paper sided Mantua cars, the way they are meant to be built is that both the box car sides and the reefer sides extend only down to the top of the metal floor edge, with the metal floor edge being exposed and painted (possibly black to match the ends and roof as with PFE or in some cases matching the red sides of a billboard reefer such as Baby Ruth). The metal of the sides is slightly recessed in from the metal roof and floor, allowing for the thickness of the cardboard. As they come new, the cardboard sides are oversize though, and the modeler is to trim the sides to his needs. If you build up behind the cardboard sides, so that the metal sides underneath are flush with the metal floor edge, in many cases you can trim the sides to cover the floor edge if you prefer, reaching the bottom edge of it. Some sides do not allow for this though, as they have a cut line to follow along the bottom edge of the cardboard sides, unless you don't mind having that black line appear along the bottom length of the car. You would have to watch that this slightly wider width (extra thickness) does not noticeably extend out now from the car ends if you do this. You might have to carefully paint the ends of the new sides to match the car ends if they're exposed. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > One side drops .080", the other .132". > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > there. > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it just > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate that > glued on? > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and install > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back on > it's feet waiting sides. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3318	From: erieberk	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek Cars

While I can't think of any others, this reminds me of the special "Showmanship Award" cars started in 1980 by Walthers, which clubs qualified for if they hosted an open house or held a show for the public. Incidentally, I spotted a Walthers Piker yesterday while browsing eBay (#190100983999), starting at $19.99. Regards, Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cnj999" <jbortle@...> wrote: > > Many here are unboubtedly familiar with Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek cars, > a group that started with the singled truck Piker Pullman car kit about > 1961. This was followed by the single truck Oscar observation car kit a > few years later. And the pair were revived in plastic form in 2000. > > While the Piker and Oscar had long production lives, down through the > years Walthers has added occasionally and briefly to this collection. > There was a "Peanut One", intended to poke a little fun at President > Jimmy Carter. Likewise, there was a "Jailbox" car around 1980, playing > off the Railbox cars of the time. The early 1980's saw a quite > literal "Beer Can" tank car, making fun of the shorty tank cars that > were appearing. And often listed with these cars was the John > Allen "Impact Car", although it had an actual and more serious purpose > on the layout. > > Does anyone know if there any others in this series? I've been > searching around but can find very little information regarding any but > the Piker and Oscar. > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3319	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

Sean, First things first, what gauge is it? I know it says HO but have you measured it? The reason I am asking is that the motor appears to use clock gears (hard to tell in the eBay photos.) For those of you who can't see it, go to eBay, do an advanced search, put in the number and check the box for completed listings only. Based on what little I can tell from the photos it is either (a) Scratchbuilt, but built a long time ago like in the 1930s (b) is not HO at all but is a true antique toy train (c) I don't think the cigar box has anything to do with the locomotive In any case, it looks like a real "keeper" and a prize worth preserving. Nice job! Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello Guys! > I have another mystery here.. My first guess was that this was a Ken > Kidder all the way.. I just picked it up. I will add pics with my first > reply... as usual. It is a very interesting Mystery piece.. > > Now, I am curious as to what this is.... The listing states... > > "Locomotive says (electric no 1 locomotive) on front. Has working > windows and doors, motor says (New Haven trade mark U.S.arround star)a > very early electric motor flat copper rides commutator instead of > brushes." > > Ultimately, I would like to enter it into my core collection, as I try > to do with all the brass I buy. > > I have this same info search on Dan Bush's site as well. > > Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3320	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

Hello Matt, Thanks! I only found and bid on it yesterday... Swapmonster had a bid on it, so...   1. I knew it was worth it...   2. Had to try to take it...     I think that guy hates me by now...   I do not have it yet.  I have a Cigar box like the one in the listing (I know it has nothing to do with it, but for display purposes only). But using the one in a picture and the one I own, I think the engine is larger than stated... For me, I think it could be OO? or a little larger. I did notice the thin clock-work gears...neat! OO, however I know was not around until the mid '30's. It looks oder than that...   My guess at vintage is late 20's - early 30's as well... Not HO at that age... HO did not come until the latter half of the late 30's I believe. Like 1938-39..?   For display purposes, I think I will keep it with the box, however...   I love to find the interesting pieces... for me, this is what it is all about.... Toss the plastic mass produced crap... Give me the vintage and the unique... even if I eventually sell it, that is the stuff I like to sell... It will be a while before I sell, if I do...   Sean mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: Sean, First things first, what gauge is it? I know it says HO but have you measured it? The reason I am asking is that the motor appears to use clock gears (hard to tell in the eBay photos.) For those of you who can't see it, go to eBay, do an advanced search, put in the number and check the box for completed listings only. Based on what little I can tell from the photos it is either (a) Scratchbuilt, but built a long time ago like in the 1930s (b) is not HO at all but is a true antique toy train (c) I don't think the cigar box has anything to do with the locomotive In any case, it looks like a real "keeper" and a prize worth preserving. Nice job! Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Guys! > I have another mystery here.. My first guess was that this was a Ken > Kidder all the way.. I just picked it up. I will add pics with my first > reply... as usual. It is a very interesting Mystery piece.. > > Now, I am curious as to what this is.... The listing states... > > "Locomotive says (electric no 1 locomotive) on front. Has working > windows and doors, motor says (New Haven trade mark U.S.arround star)a > very early electric motor flat copper rides commutator instead of > brushes." > > Ultimately, I would like to enter it into my core collection, as I try > to do with all the brass I buy. > > I have this same info search on Dan Bush's site as well. > > Sean > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3321	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

In the dark, dusty, drafty crannies of what used to called my brain I hear a tiny voice saying "Toonerville Trolley". Maybe it is and maybe it ain't but it sure do remind me of it. By the way, to find something by number on ebay, current or ended, I just paste the number in the search box right on top of the opening screen. Always comes up for me unless it's too old (90 days I think) and has been removed from the ebay site in which case it's possible to bring up. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello Matt, > Thanks! > I only found and bid on it yesterday... Swapmonster had a bid on it, so... > > 1. I knew it was worth it... > > 2. Had to try to take it... > > I think that guy hates me by now... > > I do not have it yet. I have a Cigar box like the one in the listing (I know it has nothing to do with it, but for display purposes only). But using the one in a picture and the one I own, I think the engine is larger than stated... For me, I think it could be OO? or a little larger. I did notice the thin clock-work gears...neat! OO, however I know was not around until the mid '30's. It looks oder than that... > > My guess at vintage is late 20's - early 30's as well... Not HO at that age... HO did not come until the latter half of the late 30's I believe. Like 1938-39..? > > For display purposes, I think I will keep it with the box, however... > > I love to find the interesting pieces... for me, this is what it is all about.... Toss the plastic mass produced crap... Give me the vintage and the unique... even if I eventually sell it, that is the stuff I like to sell... It will be a while before I sell, if I do... > > Sean > > mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > Sean, > > First things first, what gauge is it? I know it says HO but have you > measured it? The reason I am asking is that the motor appears to use > clock gears (hard to tell in the eBay photos.) For those of you who > can't see it, go to eBay, do an advanced search, put in the number > and check the box for completed listings only. > > Based on what little I can tell from the photos it is either > > (a) Scratchbuilt, but built a long time ago like in the 1930s > (b) is not HO at all but is a true antique toy train > (c) I don't think the cigar box has anything to do with the locomotive > > In any case, it looks like a real "keeper" and a prize worth > preserving. > > Nice job! > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@> > wrote: > > > > Hello Guys! > > I have another mystery here.. My first guess was that this was a > Ken > > Kidder all the way.. I just picked it up. I will add pics with my > first > > reply... as usual. It is a very interesting Mystery piece.. > > > > Now, I am curious as to what this is.... The listing states... > > > > "Locomotive says (electric no 1 locomotive) on front. Has working > > windows and doors, motor says (New Haven trade mark U.S.arround > star)a > > very early electric motor flat copper rides commutator instead of > > brushes." > > > > Ultimately, I would like to enter it into my core collection, as I > try > > to do with all the brass I buy. > > > > I have this same info search on Dan Bush's site as well. > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3322	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

Hello John,   I have always known this to be the toonerville...     Is there a series?   Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: In the dark, dusty, drafty crannies of what used to called my brain I hear a tiny voice saying "Toonerville Trolley". Maybe it is and maybe it ain't but it sure do remind me of it. By the way, to find something by number on ebay, current or ended, I just paste the number in the search box right on top of the opening screen. Always comes up for me unless it's too old (90 days I think) and has been removed from the ebay site in which case it's possible to bring up. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Matt, > Thanks! > I only found and bid on it yesterday... Swapmonster had a bid on it, so... > > 1. I knew it was worth it... > > 2. Had to try to take it... > > I think that guy hates me by now... > > I do not have it yet. I have a Cigar box like the one in the listing (I know it has nothing to do with it, but for display purposes only). But using the one in a picture and the one I own, I think the engine is larger than stated... For me, I think it could be OO? or a little larger. I did notice the thin clock-work gears...neat! OO, however I know was not around until the mid '30's. It looks oder than that... > > My guess at vintage is late 20's - early 30's as well... Not HO at that age... HO did not come until the latter half of the late 30's I believe. Like 1938-39..? > > For display purposes, I think I will keep it with the box, however... > > I love to find the interesting pieces... for me, this is what it is all about.... Toss the plastic mass produced crap... Give me the vintage and the unique... even if I eventually sell it, that is the stuff I like to sell... It will be a while before I sell, if I do... > > Sean > > mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@ ...> wrote: > Sean, > > First things first, what gauge is it? I know it says HO but have you > measured it? The reason I am asking is that the motor appears to use > clock gears (hard to tell in the eBay photos.) For those of you who > can't see it, go to eBay, do an advanced search, put in the number > and check the box for completed listings only. > > Based on what little I can tell from the photos it is either > > (a) Scratchbuilt, but built a long time ago like in the 1930s > (b) is not HO at all but is a true antique toy train > (c) I don't think the cigar box has anything to do with the locomotive > > In any case, it looks like a real "keeper" and a prize worth > preserving. > > Nice job! > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ > > wrote: > > > > Hello Guys! > > I have another mystery here.. My first guess was that this was a > Ken > > Kidder all the way.. I just picked it up. I will add pics with my > first > > reply... as usual. It is a very interesting Mystery piece.. > > > > Now, I am curious as to what this is.... The listing states... > > > > "Locomotive says (electric no 1 locomotive) on front. Has working > > windows and doors, motor says (New Haven trade mark U.S.arround > star)a > > very early electric motor flat copper rides commutator instead of > > brushes." > > > > Ultimately, I would like to enter it into my core collection, as I > try > > to do with all the brass I buy. > > > > I have this same info search on Dan Bush's site as well. > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. > Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3323	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Reading Crusader on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-PENN-LINE-READING-CRUSADER-STREAMLINED-CLASSIC_W0QQitemZ300099868252QQihZ020QQcategoryZ484QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3324	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek Cars

There were some fictitious decal sets as for steam locos on modern merged roads like PC and BN.  ----- Original Message ----- From: cnj999 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 8:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek Cars Many here are unboubtedly familiar with Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek cars, a group that started with the singled truck Piker Pullman car kit about 1961. This was followed by the single truck Oscar observation car kit a few years later. And the pair were revived in plastic form in 2000. While the Piker and Oscar had long production lives, down through the years Walthers has added occasionally and briefly to this collection. There was a "Peanut One", intended to poke a little fun at President Jimmy Carter. Likewise, there was a "Jailbox" car around 1980, playing off the Railbox cars of the time. The early 1980's saw a quite literal "Beer Can" tank car, making fun of the shorty tank cars that were appearing. And often listed with these cars was the John Allen "Impact Car", although it had an actual and more serious purpose on the layout. Does anyone know if there any others in this series? I've been searching around but can find very little information regarding any but the Piker and Oscar. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3325	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides overlap the sides of the channel.  The card sides have cut lines marked on them--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. One side drops .080", the other .132". I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes there. Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it just exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate that glued on? I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and install Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back on it's feet waiting sides. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3326	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

Kemtron did a brass one in the 50's--used a Lindsay power truck as I recall--one that Kemtron called the "Teaspoon of Power"  I'd love to see someone do one in G Scale-- ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785 Hello John,   I have always known this to be the toonerville. ..     Is there a series?   Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@yahoo. com> wrote: In the dark, dusty, drafty crannies of what used to called my brain I hear a tiny voice saying "Toonerville Trolley". Maybe it is and maybe it ain't but it sure do remind me of it. By the way, to find something by number on ebay, current or ended, I just paste the number in the search box right on top of the opening screen. Always comes up for me unless it's too old (90 days I think) and has been removed from the ebay site in which case it's possible to bring up. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Matt, > Thanks! > I only found and bid on it yesterday... Swapmonster had a bid on it, so... > > 1. I knew it was worth it... > > 2. Had to try to take it... > > I think that guy hates me by now... > > I do not have it yet. I have a Cigar box like the one in the listing (I know it has nothing to do with it, but for display purposes only). But using the one in a picture and the one I own, I think the engine is larger than stated... For me, I think it could be OO? or a little larger. I did notice the thin clock-work gears...neat! OO, however I know was not around until the mid '30's. It looks oder than that... > > My guess at vintage is late 20's - early 30's as well... Not HO at that age... HO did not come until the latter half of the late 30's I believe. Like 1938-39..? > > For display purposes, I think I will keep it with the box, however... > > I love to find the interesting pieces... for me, this is what it is all about.... Toss the plastic mass produced crap... Give me the vintage and the unique... even if I eventually sell it, that is the stuff I like to sell... It will be a while before I sell, if I do... > > Sean > > mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@ ...> wrote: > Sean, > > First things first, what gauge is it? I know it says HO but have you > measured it? The reason I am asking is that the motor appears to use > clock gears (hard to tell in the eBay photos.) For those of you who > can't see it, go to eBay, do an advanced search, put in the number > and check the box for completed listings only. > > Based on what little I can tell from the photos it is either > > (a) Scratchbuilt, but built a long time ago like in the 1930s > (b) is not HO at all but is a true antique toy train > (c) I don't think the cigar box has anything to do with the locomotive > > In any case, it looks like a real "keeper" and a prize worth > preserving. > > Nice job! > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ > > wrote: > > > > Hello Guys! > > I have another mystery here.. My first guess was that this was a > Ken > > Kidder all the way.. I just picked it up. I will add pics with my > first > > reply... as usual. It is a very interesting Mystery piece.. > > > > Now, I am curious as to what this is.... The listing states... > > > > "Locomotive says (electric no 1 locomotive) on front. Has working > > windows and doors, motor says (New Haven trade mark U.S.arround > star)a > > very early electric motor flat copper rides commutator instead of > > brushes." > > > > Ultimately, I would like to enter it into my core collection, as I > try > > to do with all the brass I buy. > > > > I have this same info search on Dan Bush's site as well. > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. > Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3327	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Okay, so the flor cannot then be removed, right? Just wanted not to have to do it twice. This is a re-kit, so I have no original instructions. Got everything else. The original glue the moron who built it used shrunk, so the boxcar sides have light cracking. What would you recommend to bond the sides? Dave > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides overlap the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines marked on them--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > One side drops .080", the other .132". > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > there. > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it just > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate that > glued on? > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and install > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back on > it's feet waiting sides. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3328	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

I resemble that moron remark......... Not nice................... _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger. Join the i�m Initiative. Help make a difference today. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3329	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

Then blow up the side view and make one from card or styrene sheet.......... The cartoons are available in book form, for further reference on car details. You'll have it years sooner than waiting around for it to be offered............ Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Apr 9, 2007, at 7:22 PM, Glenn476 wrote: Kemtron did a brass one in the 50's--used a Lindsay power truck as I recall--one that Kemtron called the "Teaspoon of Power"  I'd love to see someone do one in G Scale-- ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785 Hello John,   I have always known this to be the toonerville. ..     Is there a series?   Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@yahoo. com > wrote: In the dark, dusty, drafty crannies of what used to called my brain I hear a tiny voice saying "Toonerville Trolley". Maybe it is and maybe it ain't but it sure do remind me of it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3330	From: erieberk	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Dave, If you think a Mantua reefer instruction sheet would help and would like one, let me know and I'll mail you one. As for bonding the sides, I presume you mean adhering the cardboard sides to the metal sides(?). Mantua suggested airplane cement for this purpose, like Dupont DuCo. I'd think anything similar would be adequate. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Okay, so the flor cannot then be removed, right? > Just wanted not to have to do it twice. > This is a re-kit, so I have no original instructions. > Got everything else. > The original glue the moron who built it used shrunk, so the boxcar > sides have light cracking. > What would you recommend to bond the sides? > > Dave > > > > > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides > overlap the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines > marked on them--gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > goes > > there. > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is > it just > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > that > > glued on? > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > install > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > on > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3331	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Somewhere I have a kit--will try and find instrx.  I would use Pliobond or similar to glue the sides on.  Check the width marks on the sides.  I'd suggest some sort of backing behind the aluminum sub-sides.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers Okay, so the flor cannot then be removed, right? Just wanted not to have to do it twice. This is a re-kit, so I have no original instructions. Got everything else. The original glue the moron who built it used shrunk, so the boxcar sides have light cracking. What would you recommend to bond the sides? Dave > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides overlap the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines marked on them--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > One side drops .080", the other .132". > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > there. > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it just > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate that > glued on? > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and install > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back on > it's feet waiting sides. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3332	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

that's faster than I can find the instructions--  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 8:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers Dave, If you think a Mantua reefer instruction sheet would help and would like one, let me know and I'll mail you one. As for bonding the sides, I presume you mean adhering the cardboard sides to the metal sides(?). Mantua suggested airplane cement for this purpose, like Dupont DuCo. I'd think anything similar would be adequate. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > > Okay, so the flor cannot then be removed, right? > Just wanted not to have to do it twice. > This is a re-kit, so I have no original instructions. > Got everything else. > The original glue the moron who built it used shrunk, so the boxcar > sides have light cracking. > What would you recommend to bond the sides? > > Dave > > > > > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides > overlap the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines > marked on them--gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > goes > > there. > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is > it just > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > that > > glued on? > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > install > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > on > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3333	From: Jack Priller	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

Do NOT know if it is still available, but some time back WalMart had a DVD for a buck of old movie cartoons; three of them featured the Toonerville Trolley. If my informants are correct, these were the only three salvaged. 19 listings for it on eBay at the moment, 1 actual auction, and the rest are or have 'buy it now' tags. Jack Priller aka Ye Olde Trolleynut --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Then blow up the side view and make one from card or styrene > sheet.......... > > The cartoons are available in book form, for further reference on car > details. > > You'll have it years sooner than waiting around for it to be > offered............ > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Apr 9, 2007, at 7:22 PM, Glenn476 wrote: > > > Kemtron did a brass one in the 50's--used a Lindsay power truck as > > I recall--one that Kemtron called the "Teaspoon of Power" I'd love > > to see someone do one in G Scale-- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sean naylor > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 12:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay > > Item: 220098338785 > > > > > > Hello John, > > > > I have always known this to be the toonerville... > > > > > > > > Is there a series? > > > > Sean > > > > > > John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > In the dark, dusty, drafty crannies of what used to called my brain > > I hear a tiny voice saying "Toonerville Trolley". Maybe it is and > > maybe it ain't but it sure do remind me of it. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3334	From: erieberk	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Glenn, Please read my instructions on attaching the Mantua paper card sides, if you haven't already done so (my message #3317), or if you have, please don't ignore them. As instructed both in text and as diagrams in their sheet, for proper construction Mantua directs the modeler to trim the cardboard sides to the same size as the metal sides. These cardboard (paper) sides DO NOT overlap the sides of the channel (floor section) as per Mantua's directions. Some, but not all sides have cut lines printed along the bottom. All sides have "MANTUA METAL PRODUCTS CO., WOODBURY HEIGHTS, N.J." printed across the top, to be trimmed off. Those sides not having the cut line across the bottom can be trimmed lower to overlap the 1/8" lip of the floor (channel section), but not before being shimmed out from the metal sides. While this is not the correct way to assemble the car according to the Mantua instructions, it may be more esthetically pleasing to some modelers, but to not first build the cardboard sides out is to invite the telltale sign of a distinctly noticeable and distracting crease along the length of the uneven joint where the sides meet the floor channel section. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides overlap the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines marked on them--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > One side drops .080", the other .132". > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > there. > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it just > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate that > glued on? > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and install > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back on > it's feet waiting sides. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3335	From: erieberk	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

In trying to figure out the disparity in the unequal sides of your "floor," I can only come up with the possibility of the car being wrongly assembled with the "floor" actually being one of the metal sides. Both the metal sides and the floor are stamped channel sections and appear similar, although these metal sides have unequal lips along the length of the channel on either side. While not coming up with your measurements, the lip along one edge is a bit over 1/4" (.25+") and the lip along the other edge is 1/8" (.125") on these metal sides. The width of the metal sides (1 3/16") are also about 1/16" narrower than the width of the floor (1 1/4"). If your "floor" is 1 3/16" wide, it is a metal side instead. I don't know if this is at all the problem, but am only going by what your description seems to be telling me if I'm following it right, but will admit its not 100% clear to me. A quick check of the diagrams will show what I'm getting at. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > One side drops .080", the other .132". > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > there. > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it just > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate that > glued on? > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and install > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back on > it's feet waiting sides. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3336	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

I was afraid of that. Long-term, DUCO doesn't look like a good idea. That's what looks like was on it, and it shrunk, pulling the sides into a bow. I only need instructions to put with the car. I am trying to make sure everything is documented for the future, so when the youngsters are going through this stuff, they'll know what it is. If you have a spare set, great, if you want to FAX them, that will work, too, as I am not a "collector" needing the exact "paper". E-mail me if you want to FAX and I'll get you a number. Dave > > Dave, If you think a Mantua reefer instruction sheet would help and > would like one, let me know and I'll mail you one. As for bonding > the sides, I presume you mean adhering the cardboard sides to the > metal sides(?). Mantua suggested airplane cement for this purpose, > like Dupont DuCo. I'd think anything similar would be adequate. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > Okay, so the flor cannot then be removed, right? > > Just wanted not to have to do it twice. > > This is a re-kit, so I have no original instructions. > > Got everything else. > > The original glue the moron who built it used shrunk, so the boxcar > > sides have light cracking. > > What would you recommend to bond the sides? > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides > > overlap the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines > > marked on them--gj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: curmudgeon > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't > have > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > > goes > > > there. > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is > > it just > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > > that > > > glued on? > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > > install > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > > on > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Dave > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3337	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

I was afraid of that. Long-term, DUCO doesn't look like a good idea. That's what looks like was on it, and it shrunk, pulling the sides into a bow. I only need instructions to put with the car. I am trying to make sure everything is documented for the future, so when the youngsters are going through this stuff, they'll know what it is. If you have a spare set, great, if you want to FAX them, that will work, too, as I am not a "collector" needing the exact "paper". E-mail me if you want to FAX and I'll get you a number. Dave > > Dave, If you think a Mantua reefer instruction sheet would help and > would like one, let me know and I'll mail you one. As for bonding > the sides, I presume you mean adhering the cardboard sides to the > metal sides(?). Mantua suggested airplane cement for this purpose, > like Dupont DuCo. I'd think anything similar would be adequate. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > Okay, so the flor cannot then be removed, right? > > Just wanted not to have to do it twice. > > This is a re-kit, so I have no original instructions. > > Got everything else. > > The original glue the moron who built it used shrunk, so the boxcar > > sides have light cracking. > > What would you recommend to bond the sides? > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides > > overlap the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines > > marked on them--gj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: curmudgeon > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't > have > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > > goes > > > there. > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is > > it just > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > > that > > > glued on? > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > > install > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > > on > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Dave > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3338	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

I thought the same thing, except the floor has the 6 mounting holes to attach, plus two for the frame at the ends, and two "clearance" holes for the coupler screw or kingpin. It really looks like it was just mis-manufactured. The sides have MUCH deeper parts than these. The cuts on the floor are dead straight, and the workmanship on this car would indicate to me the assembler did not have the skills to do straight lines. The short channel, if too short, I will have to "lengthen" somehow. The long channel, well, I can shorten that. Do you have one of these? Can you stick a ruler on the inside of one, at the beand, and tell me how far down the edge is? Thanks. Dave > > In trying to figure out the disparity in the unequal sides of > your "floor," I can only come up with the possibility of the car being > wrongly assembled with the "floor" actually being one of the metal > sides. Both the metal sides and the floor are stamped channel sections > and appear similar, although these metal sides have unequal lips along > the length of the channel on either side. > > While not coming up with your measurements, the lip along one edge is a > bit over 1/4" (.25+") and the lip along the other edge is 1/8" (.125") > on these metal sides. The width of the metal sides (1 3/16") are also > about 1/16" narrower than the width of the floor (1 1/4"). If > your "floor" is 1 3/16" wide, it is a metal side instead. I don't know > if this is at all the problem, but am only going by what your > description seems to be telling me if I'm following it right, but will > admit its not 100% clear to me. A quick check of the diagrams will > show what I'm getting at. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > > there. > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it > just > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate that > > glued on? > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and install > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back on > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3339	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

When fully assembled, my "box" has no discernible difference between the sides and floor, full-length. I filed all flash from the ends so the sides fit snug, and super- glued with slow CA the sides to the ends with the corner screws installed, and a band at each end to hold until set. The side screw holes line up exactly with the end holes, so that's right. The frame fits inside the floor channel just fine. Dave > > Glenn, Please read my instructions on attaching the Mantua paper > card sides, if you haven't already done so (my message #3317), or if > you have, please don't ignore them. As instructed both in text and > as diagrams in their sheet, for proper construction Mantua directs > the modeler to trim the cardboard sides to the same size as the metal > sides. These cardboard (paper) sides DO NOT overlap the sides of the > channel (floor section) as per Mantua's directions. > > Some, but not all sides have cut lines printed along the bottom. All > sides have "MANTUA METAL PRODUCTS CO., WOODBURY HEIGHTS, N.J." > printed across the top, to be trimmed off. Those sides not having > the cut line across the bottom can be trimmed lower to overlap the > 1/8" lip of the floor (channel section), but not before being shimmed > out from the metal sides. While this is not the correct way to > assemble the car according to the Mantua instructions, it may be more > esthetically pleasing to some modelers, but to not first build the > cardboard sides out is to invite the telltale sign of a distinctly > noticeable and distracting crease along the length of the uneven > joint where the sides meet the floor channel section. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides overlap > the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines marked on > them--gj > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > > there. > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it > just > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > that > > glued on? > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > install > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > on > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3340	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Good Lord. Are you the guy I got these from over 20 years ago? > > I resemble that moron remark......... > Not nice................... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Download Messenger. Join the i'm Initiative. Help make a difference today. > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3341	From: erieberk	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

No, DUCO is not the best idea, but is only what Mantua suggested some 50+ odd years ago. As we know, there have been many better adhesives developed for the hobby since then. I wouldn't suggest using DUCO for these sides today. Will be glad to fax them to you (there are 2 sides). They're 12 1/8" long, so I'll send each side in 2 sections, repositioning them with each scan and you can tape them together, unless you have legal size (8 1/2" x 14") paper. You can email me your FAX number off the group site if you prefer; my email address can be found above. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I was afraid of that. > Long-term, DUCO doesn't look like a good idea. > That's what looks like was on it, and it shrunk, pulling the sides > into a bow. > > I only need instructions to put with the car. > I am trying to make sure everything is documented for the future, so > when the youngsters are going through this stuff, they'll know what > it is. > > If you have a spare set, great, if you want to FAX them, that will > work, too, as I am not a "collector" needing the exact "paper". > > E-mail me if you want to FAX and I'll get you a number. > > Dave > > > > > > Dave, If you think a Mantua reefer instruction sheet would help > and > > would like one, let me know and I'll mail you one. As for bonding > > the sides, I presume you mean adhering the cardboard sides to the > > metal sides(?). Mantua suggested airplane cement for this > purpose, > > like Dupont DuCo. I'd think anything similar would be adequate. > Ray > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so the flor cannot then be removed, right? > > > Just wanted not to have to do it twice. > > > This is a re-kit, so I have no original instructions. > > > Got everything else. > > > The original glue the moron who built it used shrunk, so the > boxcar > > > sides have light cracking. > > > What would you recommend to bond the sides? > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides > > > overlap the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines > > > marked on them--gj > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: curmudgeon > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't > > have > > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > > > goes > > > > there. > > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or > is > > > it just > > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower > plate > > > that > > > > glued on? > > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, > and > > > install > > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's > back > > > on > > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3342	From: erieberk	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

I had thought about the mounting holes too, but figured if someone was that intent on assembling the model in a messed up fashion, they could also drill new holes if they really wanted to -- although that would be a lot more work. One give-away is that the two metal sides are 5 9/16" long, while the metal floor section is 5 5/8" long (if they were left full size and not reworked). Could just be that the kit was mis-manufactured, though. Yes, I have one of my kits right in front of me and will measure any dimension you need. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I've already given you the sizes (of both the metal sides and the floor) between the bends, and from each bend out to the edge, if that's what you mean. If that's not the measurement you're looking for, please run that by me again so I can better understand it. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I thought the same thing, except the floor has the 6 mounting holes > to attach, plus two for the frame at the ends, and two "clearance" > holes for the coupler screw or kingpin. > It really looks like it was just mis-manufactured. The sides have > MUCH deeper parts than these. > The cuts on the floor are dead straight, and the workmanship on this > car would indicate to me the assembler did not have the skills to do > straight lines. > > The short channel, if too short, I will have to "lengthen" somehow. > The long channel, well, I can shorten that. > Do you have one of these? > Can you stick a ruler on the inside of one, at the beand, and tell > me how far down the edge is? > > Thanks. > > Dave > > > > > In trying to figure out the disparity in the unequal sides of > > your "floor," I can only come up with the possibility of the car > being > > wrongly assembled with the "floor" actually being one of the metal > > sides. Both the metal sides and the floor are stamped channel > sections > > and appear similar, although these metal sides have unequal lips > along > > the length of the channel on either side. > > > > While not coming up with your measurements, the lip along one edge > is a > > bit over 1/4" (.25+") and the lip along the other edge is 1/8" > (.125") > > on these metal sides. The width of the metal sides (1 3/16") are > also > > about 1/16" narrower than the width of the floor (1 1/4"). If > > your "floor" is 1 3/16" wide, it is a metal side instead. I don't > know > > if this is at all the problem, but am only going by what your > > description seems to be telling me if I'm following it right, but > will > > admit its not 100% clear to me. A quick check of the diagrams > will > > show what I'm getting at. Ray > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > goes > > > there. > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is > it > > just > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > that > > > glued on? > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > install > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > on > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Dave > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3343	From: erieberk	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

I had thought about the mounting holes too, but figured if someone was that intent on assembling the model in a messed up fashion, they could also drill new holes if they really wanted to -- although that would be a lot more work. One give-away is that the two metal sides are 5 9/16" long, while the metal floor section is 5 5/8" long (if they were left full size and not reworked). Could just be that the kit was mis-manufactured, though. Yes, I have one of my kits right in front of me and will measure any dimension you need. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I've already given you the sizes (of both the metal sides and the floor) between the bends, and from each bend out to the edge, if that's what you mean. If that's not the measurement you're looking for, please run that by me again so I can better understand it. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I thought the same thing, except the floor has the 6 mounting holes > to attach, plus two for the frame at the ends, and two "clearance" > holes for the coupler screw or kingpin. > It really looks like it was just mis-manufactured. The sides have > MUCH deeper parts than these. > The cuts on the floor are dead straight, and the workmanship on this > car would indicate to me the assembler did not have the skills to do > straight lines. > > The short channel, if too short, I will have to "lengthen" somehow. > The long channel, well, I can shorten that. > Do you have one of these? > Can you stick a ruler on the inside of one, at the beand, and tell > me how far down the edge is? > > Thanks. > > Dave > > > > > In trying to figure out the disparity in the unequal sides of > > your "floor," I can only come up with the possibility of the car > being > > wrongly assembled with the "floor" actually being one of the metal > > sides. Both the metal sides and the floor are stamped channel > sections > > and appear similar, although these metal sides have unequal lips > along > > the length of the channel on either side. > > > > While not coming up with your measurements, the lip along one edge > is a > > bit over 1/4" (.25+") and the lip along the other edge is 1/8" > (.125") > > on these metal sides. The width of the metal sides (1 3/16") are > also > > about 1/16" narrower than the width of the floor (1 1/4"). If > > your "floor" is 1 3/16" wide, it is a metal side instead. I don't > know > > if this is at all the problem, but am only going by what your > > description seems to be telling me if I'm following it right, but > will > > admit its not 100% clear to me. A quick check of the diagrams > will > > show what I'm getting at. Ray > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > goes > > > there. > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is > it > > just > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > that > > > glued on? > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > install > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > on > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Dave > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3344	From: erieberk	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Sounds about right so far, near as I can tell just going by the description (if I'm following it right). Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > When fully assembled, my "box" has no discernible difference between > the sides and floor, full-length. > I filed all flash from the ends so the sides fit snug, and super- > glued with slow CA the sides to the ends with the corner screws > installed, and a band at each end to hold until set. > The side screw holes line up exactly with the end holes, so that's > right. > The frame fits inside the floor channel just fine. > Dave > > > > > Glenn, Please read my instructions on attaching the Mantua paper > > card sides, if you haven't already done so (my message #3317), or > if > > you have, please don't ignore them. As instructed both in text > and > > as diagrams in their sheet, for proper construction Mantua directs > > the modeler to trim the cardboard sides to the same size as the > metal > > sides. These cardboard (paper) sides DO NOT overlap the sides of > the > > channel (floor section) as per Mantua's directions. > > > > Some, but not all sides have cut lines printed along the bottom. > All > > sides have "MANTUA METAL PRODUCTS CO., WOODBURY HEIGHTS, N.J." > > printed across the top, to be trimmed off. Those sides not having > > the cut line across the bottom can be trimmed lower to overlap the > > 1/8" lip of the floor (channel section), but not before being > shimmed > > out from the metal sides. While this is not the correct way to > > assemble the car according to the Mantua instructions, it may be > more > > esthetically pleasing to some modelers, but to not first build the > > cardboard sides out is to invite the telltale sign of a distinctly > > noticeable and distracting crease along the length of the uneven > > joint where the sides meet the floor channel section. Ray > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides > overlap > > the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines marked on > > them--gj > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: curmudgeon > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't > have > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > goes > > > there. > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is > it > > just > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > > that > > > glued on? > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > > install > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's > back > > on > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Dave > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3345	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785

John, I have bid on (but not won) on three Toonerville Trolleys and this is not a Toonerville as I have seen them. The Toonerville Trolleys were brass castings and made by Kemtron after WWII. They had an open-frame, Pittman-style motor truck with worm gears, rather modern in design for the era. This is clearly made of sheet brass with some incredible work on the mechanism. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > In the dark, dusty, drafty crannies of what used to called my brain > I hear a tiny voice saying "Toonerville Trolley". Maybe it is and > maybe it ain't but it sure do remind me of it. > > By the way, to find something by number on ebay, current or ended, I > just paste the number in the search box right on top of the opening > screen. Always comes up for me unless it's too old (90 days I think) > and has been removed from the ebay site in which case it's possible > to bring up. > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3346	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Yes, the floor section is longer than the sides. When I look at this on the web, I am not sure if there are "older" messages until I go scroll back through. The lengths are good, shows the floor is NOT a modified side. What I was looking for as far as a measurement, and you may have posted in a message I have not yet found, is the channel edge depth of the floor section. What I have found is side measurements. Since these parts that hang down on the floor section are different on each side of mine, one being .080", the other about .131" or so, if I knew what the ID was on yours, I'd know whether to trim one side or add to the other. On the short side, the edges of the frame are just visible, on the long side, well hidden. Dave > > I had thought about the mounting holes too, but figured if someone > was that intent on assembling the model in a messed up fashion, they > could also drill new holes if they really wanted to -- although that > would be a lot more work. One give-away is that the two metal sides > are 5 9/16" long, while the metal floor section is 5 5/8" long (if > they were left full size and not reworked). Could just be that the > kit was mis-manufactured, though. Yes, I have one of my kits right > in front of me and will measure any dimension you need. Unless I'm > misunderstanding you, I've already given you the sizes (of both the > metal sides and the floor) between the bends, and from each bend out > to the edge, if that's what you mean. If that's not the measurement > you're looking for, please run that by me again so I can better > understand it. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > I thought the same thing, except the floor has the 6 mounting holes > > to attach, plus two for the frame at the ends, and two "clearance" > > holes for the coupler screw or kingpin. > > It really looks like it was just mis-manufactured. The sides have > > MUCH deeper parts than these. > > The cuts on the floor are dead straight, and the workmanship on > this > > car would indicate to me the assembler did not have the skills to > do > > straight lines. > > > > The short channel, if too short, I will have to "lengthen" somehow. > > The long channel, well, I can shorten that. > > Do you have one of these? > > Can you stick a ruler on the inside of one, at the beand, and tell > > me how far down the edge is? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > In trying to figure out the disparity in the unequal sides of > > > your "floor," I can only come up with the possibility of the car > > being > > > wrongly assembled with the "floor" actually being one of the > metal > > > sides. Both the metal sides and the floor are stamped channel > > sections > > > and appear similar, although these metal sides have unequal lips > > along > > > the length of the channel on either side. > > > > > > While not coming up with your measurements, the lip along one > edge > > is a > > > bit over 1/4" (.25+") and the lip along the other edge is 1/8" > > (.125") > > > on these metal sides. The width of the metal sides (1 3/16") are > > also > > > about 1/16" narrower than the width of the floor (1 1/4"). If > > > your "floor" is 1 3/16" wide, it is a metal side instead. I > don't > > know > > > if this is at all the problem, but am only going by what your > > > description seems to be telling me if I'm following it right, but > > will > > > admit its not 100% clear to me. A quick check of the diagrams > > will > > > show what I'm getting at. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't > have > > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > > goes > > > > there. > > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is > > it > > > just > > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > > that > > > > glued on? > > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > > install > > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > > on > > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3347	From: erieberk	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

The edge depth of the channel floor section is a little less than 1/8", or .110" when using my micrometer. Both edges of course being equal. Looks like your floor piece was off center when it went under the press break to bend these edges. You're right, I don't believe I did give you this measurement before, sorry (I thought I had). Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Yes, the floor section is longer than the sides. > When I look at this on the web, I am not sure if there are "older" > messages until I go scroll back through. > The lengths are good, shows the floor is NOT a modified side. > What I was looking for as far as a measurement, and you may have > posted in a message I have not yet found, is the channel edge depth > of the floor section. > What I have found is side measurements. > Since these parts that hang down on the floor section are different > on each side of mine, one being .080", the other about .131" or so, > if I knew what the ID was on yours, I'd know whether to trim one > side or add to the other. > On the short side, the edges of the frame are just visible, on the > long side, well hidden. > Dave > > > > > I had thought about the mounting holes too, but figured if someone > > was that intent on assembling the model in a messed up fashion, > they > > could also drill new holes if they really wanted to -- although > that > > would be a lot more work. One give-away is that the two metal > sides > > are 5 9/16" long, while the metal floor section is 5 5/8" long (if > > they were left full size and not reworked). Could just be that > the > > kit was mis-manufactured, though. Yes, I have one of my kits > right > > in front of me and will measure any dimension you need. Unless > I'm > > misunderstanding you, I've already given you the sizes (of both > the > > metal sides and the floor) between the bends, and from each bend > out > > to the edge, if that's what you mean. If that's not the > measurement > > you're looking for, please run that by me again so I can better > > understand it. Ray > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I thought the same thing, except the floor has the 6 mounting > holes > > > to attach, plus two for the frame at the ends, and > two "clearance" > > > holes for the coupler screw or kingpin. > > > It really looks like it was just mis-manufactured. The sides > have > > > MUCH deeper parts than these. > > > The cuts on the floor are dead straight, and the workmanship on > > this > > > car would indicate to me the assembler did not have the skills > to > > do > > > straight lines. > > > > > > The short channel, if too short, I will have to "lengthen" > somehow. > > > The long channel, well, I can shorten that. > > > Do you have one of these? > > > Can you stick a ruler on the inside of one, at the beand, and > tell > > > me how far down the edge is? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > In trying to figure out the disparity in the unequal sides of > > > > your "floor," I can only come up with the possibility of the > car > > > being > > > > wrongly assembled with the "floor" actually being one of the > > metal > > > > sides. Both the metal sides and the floor are stamped channel > > > sections > > > > and appear similar, although these metal sides have unequal > lips > > > along > > > > the length of the channel on either side. > > > > > > > > While not coming up with your measurements, the lip along one > > edge > > > is a > > > > bit over 1/4" (.25+") and the lip along the other edge is 1/8" > > > (.125") > > > > on these metal sides. The width of the metal sides (1 3/16") > are > > > also > > > > about 1/16" narrower than the width of the floor (1 1/4"). If > > > > your "floor" is 1 3/16" wide, it is a metal side instead. I > > don't > > > know > > > > if this is at all the problem, but am only going by what your > > > > description seems to be telling me if I'm following it right, > but > > > will > > > > admit its not 100% clear to me. A quick check of the diagrams > > > will > > > > show what I'm getting at. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't > > have > > > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > > > goes > > > > > there. > > > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or > is > > > it > > > > just > > > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower > plate > > > that > > > > > glued on? > > > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, > and > > > install > > > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's > back > > > on > > > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3348	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

'salright. I could make a nw floor, or cut the "long" side down to about .100". The .080" is obviously .030" shallow. I'll look at adding to the inner part of the edge with some styrene, maybe find something to "fill" the styrene out to match the existing aluminum. Now that I know it's supposed to be about .110", and can see they mis-bent this, since the holes were punched after the bend, no way to re-bend it without making the floor swiss cheese. I could just add a thin sill plate, painted to match roof and ends. I'll ponder it for a bit. At least this wasn't as hard as putting the steering column and shifter assembly into a 1941 Lincoln V-12 Continental for my neighbor a week ago. He'd taken it apart November of 1988. Works now, but what a trip. Dave > The edge depth of the channel floor section is a little less than > 1/8", or .110" when using my micrometer. Both edges of course being > equal. Looks like your floor piece was off center when it went under > the press break to bend these edges. You're right, I don't believe I > did give you this measurement before, sorry (I thought I had). Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > Yes, the floor section is longer than the sides. > > When I look at this on the web, I am not sure if there are "older" > > messages until I go scroll back through. > > The lengths are good, shows the floor is NOT a modified side. > > What I was looking for as far as a measurement, and you may have > > posted in a message I have not yet found, is the channel edge depth > > of the floor section. > > What I have found is side measurements. > > Since these parts that hang down on the floor section are different > > on each side of mine, one being .080", the other about .131" or so, > > if I knew what the ID was on yours, I'd know whether to trim one > > side or add to the other. > > On the short side, the edges of the frame are just visible, on the > > long side, well hidden. > > Dave > > > > > > > > I had thought about the mounting holes too, but figured if > someone > > > was that intent on assembling the model in a messed up fashion, > > they > > > could also drill new holes if they really wanted to -- although > > that > > > would be a lot more work. One give-away is that the two metal > > sides > > > are 5 9/16" long, while the metal floor section is 5 5/8" long > (if > > > they were left full size and not reworked). Could just be that > > the > > > kit was mis-manufactured, though. Yes, I have one of my kits > > right > > > in front of me and will measure any dimension you need. Unless > > I'm > > > misunderstanding you, I've already given you the sizes (of both > > the > > > metal sides and the floor) between the bends, and from each bend > > out > > > to the edge, if that's what you mean. If that's not the > > measurement > > > you're looking for, please run that by me again so I can better > > > understand it. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I thought the same thing, except the floor has the 6 mounting > > holes > > > > to attach, plus two for the frame at the ends, and > > two "clearance" > > > > holes for the coupler screw or kingpin. > > > > It really looks like it was just mis-manufactured. The sides > > have > > > > MUCH deeper parts than these. > > > > The cuts on the floor are dead straight, and the workmanship on > > > this > > > > car would indicate to me the assembler did not have the skills > > to > > > do > > > > straight lines. > > > > > > > > The short channel, if too short, I will have to "lengthen" > > somehow. > > > > The long channel, well, I can shorten that. > > > > Do you have one of these? > > > > Can you stick a ruler on the inside of one, at the beand, and > > tell > > > > me how far down the edge is? > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In trying to figure out the disparity in the unequal sides of > > > > > your "floor," I can only come up with the possibility of the > > car > > > > being > > > > > wrongly assembled with the "floor" actually being one of the > > > metal > > > > > sides. Both the metal sides and the floor are stamped > channel > > > > sections > > > > > and appear similar, although these metal sides have unequal > > lips > > > > along > > > > > the length of the channel on either side. > > > > > > > > > > While not coming up with your measurements, the lip along one > > > edge > > > > is a > > > > > bit over 1/4" (.25+") and the lip along the other edge is > 1/8" > > > > (.125") > > > > > on these metal sides. The width of the metal sides (1 3/16") > > are > > > > also > > > > > about 1/16" narrower than the width of the floor (1 1/4"). > If > > > > > your "floor" is 1 3/16" wide, it is a metal side instead. I > > > don't > > > > know > > > > > if this is at all the problem, but am only going by what your > > > > > description seems to be telling me if I'm following it right, > > but > > > > will > > > > > admit its not 100% clear to me. A quick check of the > diagrams > > > > will > > > > > show what I'm getting at. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" > <idioticyahoo@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > > > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't > > > have > > > > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) > what > > > > goes > > > > > > there. > > > > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or > > is > > > > it > > > > > just > > > > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower > > plate > > > > that > > > > > > glued on? > > > > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, > > and > > > > install > > > > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's > > back > > > > on > > > > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3349	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

One more thing, these holes are punched, not drilled. If you try to drill this tissue-paper aluminum, you'll have a mess. These are flat. Another thing I noticed, when put together right, the roof hatches (two anyway) would not drop in. The standoffs hit the aluminum sides. Trimmed lightly with a new xacto blade and it's all together. Dave > > I had thought about the mounting holes too, but figured if someone > was that intent on assembling the model in a messed up fashion, they > could also drill new holes if they really wanted to -- although that > would be a lot more work. One give-away is that the two metal sides > are 5 9/16" long, while the metal floor section is 5 5/8" long (if > they were left full size and not reworked). Could just be that the > kit was mis-manufactured, though. Yes, I have one of my kits right > in front of me and will measure any dimension you need. Unless I'm > misunderstanding you, I've already given you the sizes (of both the > metal sides and the floor) between the bends, and from each bend out > to the edge, if that's what you mean. If that's not the measurement > you're looking for, please run that by me again so I can better > understand it. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > I thought the same thing, except the floor has the 6 mounting holes > > to attach, plus two for the frame at the ends, and two "clearance" > > holes for the coupler screw or kingpin. > > It really looks like it was just mis-manufactured. The sides have > > MUCH deeper parts than these. > > The cuts on the floor are dead straight, and the workmanship on > this > > car would indicate to me the assembler did not have the skills to > do > > straight lines. > > > > The short channel, if too short, I will have to "lengthen" somehow. > > The long channel, well, I can shorten that. > > Do you have one of these? > > Can you stick a ruler on the inside of one, at the beand, and tell > > me how far down the edge is? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > In trying to figure out the disparity in the unequal sides of > > > your "floor," I can only come up with the possibility of the car > > being > > > wrongly assembled with the "floor" actually being one of the > metal > > > sides. Both the metal sides and the floor are stamped channel > > sections > > > and appear similar, although these metal sides have unequal lips > > along > > > the length of the channel on either side. > > > > > > While not coming up with your measurements, the lip along one > edge > > is a > > > bit over 1/4" (.25+") and the lip along the other edge is 1/8" > > (.125") > > > on these metal sides. The width of the metal sides (1 3/16") are > > also > > > about 1/16" narrower than the width of the floor (1 1/4"). If > > > your "floor" is 1 3/16" wide, it is a metal side instead. I > don't > > know > > > if this is at all the problem, but am only going by what your > > > description seems to be telling me if I'm following it right, but > > will > > > admit its not 100% clear to me. A quick check of the diagrams > > will > > > show what I'm getting at. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't > have > > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what > > goes > > > > there. > > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is > > it > > > just > > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > > that > > > > glued on? > > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > > install > > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > > on > > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3350	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Thanks--but I'm not the one rebuilding the car--I just mailed a set and a half of sides--embossed cardstock--to Dave--they have the cut lines you describe.  I don't have the complete kit handy to refer to. Still somewhere in a box.    I would use some wood backing behind the aluminum sub-sides, as many of the cars I have seen are "dished".  Back when these kits were made, we did not have too many choices in adhesives.  Acetate cements like Ambroid, or Testors" Formulas "A" and "B" were the best choice then.  Now I think that a contact-type like Pliobond, or even an office rubber cement might be better. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers Glenn, Please read my instructions on attaching the Mantua paper card sides, if you haven't already done so (my message #3317), or if you have, please don't ignore them. As instructed both in text and as diagrams in their sheet, for proper construction Mantua directs the modeler to trim the cardboard sides to the same size as the metal sides. These cardboard (paper) sides DO NOT overlap the sides of the channel (floor section) as per Mantua's directions. Some, but not all sides have cut lines printed along the bottom. All sides have "MANTUA METAL PRODUCTS CO., WOODBURY HEIGHTS, N.J." printed across the top, to be trimmed off. Those sides not having the cut line across the bottom can be trimmed lower to overlap the 1/8" lip of the floor (channel section), but not before being shimmed out from the metal sides. While this is not the correct way to assemble the car according to the Mantua instructions, it may be more esthetically pleasing to some modelers, but to not first build the cardboard sides out is to invite the telltale sign of a distinctly noticeable and distracting crease along the length of the uneven joint where the sides meet the floor channel section. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides overlap the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines marked on them--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > One side drops .080", the other .132". > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > there. > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it just > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate that > glued on? > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and install > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back on > it's feet waiting sides. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3351	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: What I've been up to.

Attachments : Not much in the way of new aquisitions lately, been concentrating more on finishing up projects that have been languishing on the bench. Latest major project is getting passenger cars in shape. I've added quite a few to my "xDon Dellmann's stuff/passenger cars" album on the group home page, a mix of Varney, Samson, Herkimer/Kasiner, MHP, KMT and Blue Line cars. Also, latest rehab, the coach below, which is, from vintage ads in MR, I believe a WW-II era Megow car. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3352	From: erieberk	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

For the shallow (.080") side/edge of your channel floor, you could use thin aluminum to either add to the inner part of that edge or make a new bent edge, covering the outside of the the existing lip -- if this material is still available in hobby shops. I don't know if it is still available, only as I haven't looked for it (have enough on hand), but years back K & S Engineering offered aluminum (also tin, brass & copper) sheet metal in 4" x 10" packages in various thicknesses, the thinnest being .016" (the thinnest brass was .005" and tin was .008"). Your mention of the '41 Lincoln Continental made me drool. I remember seeing a convertible for sale back in '58, which I sure would have liked, but it was priced at $1200 which at that time was probably equivilent to about $30,000 today (you could buy an average house back then for about $15,000 or less), and was just too far out of my price range for a kid. I had just bought for first car (used) a year earlier -- a '49 Ford Coupe -- which I paid $300 for which took me a year and a half to save up for (wages were probably around $1.25 an hour; I don't recall exactly). Anyway, glad you had some "fun" putting that one back together. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > 'salright. > I could make a nw floor, or cut the "long" side down to about .100". > The .080" is obviously .030" shallow. > I'll look at adding to the inner part of the edge with some styrene, > maybe find something to "fill" the styrene out to match the existing > aluminum. > Now that I know it's supposed to be about .110", and can see they > mis-bent this, since the holes were punched after the bend, no way > to re-bend it without making the floor swiss cheese. > I could just add a thin sill plate, painted to match roof and ends. > > I'll ponder it for a bit. > At least this wasn't as hard as putting the steering column and > shifter assembly into a 1941 Lincoln V-12 Continental for my > neighbor a week ago. > > He'd taken it apart November of 1988. > > Works now, but what a trip. > > Dave > > > > The edge depth of the channel floor section is a little less than > > 1/8", or .110" when using my micrometer. Both edges of course > being > > equal. Looks like your floor piece was off center when it went > under > > the press break to bend these edges. You're right, I don't > believe I > > did give you this measurement before, sorry (I thought I had). Ray > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Yes, the floor section is longer than the sides. > > > When I look at this on the web, I am not sure if there > are "older" > > > messages until I go scroll back through. > > > The lengths are good, shows the floor is NOT a modified side. > > > What I was looking for as far as a measurement, and you may have > > > posted in a message I have not yet found, is the channel edge > depth > > > of the floor section. > > > What I have found is side measurements. > > > Since these parts that hang down on the floor section are > different > > > on each side of mine, one being .080", the other about .131" or > so, > > > if I knew what the ID was on yours, I'd know whether to trim one > > > side or add to the other. > > > On the short side, the edges of the frame are just visible, on > the > > > long side, well hidden. > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > I had thought about the mounting holes too, but figured if > > someone > > > > was that intent on assembling the model in a messed up > fashion, > > > they > > > > could also drill new holes if they really wanted to -- > although > > > that > > > > would be a lot more work. One give-away is that the two metal > > > sides > > > > are 5 9/16" long, while the metal floor section is 5 5/8" long > > (if > > > > they were left full size and not reworked). Could just be > that > > > the > > > > kit was mis-manufactured, though. Yes, I have one of my kits > > > right > > > > in front of me and will measure any dimension you need. > Unless > > > I'm > > > > misunderstanding you, I've already given you the sizes (of > both > > > the > > > > metal sides and the floor) between the bends, and from each > bend > > > out > > > > to the edge, if that's what you mean. If that's not the > > > measurement > > > > you're looking for, please run that by me again so I can > better > > > > understand it. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I thought the same thing, except the floor has the 6 > mounting > > > holes > > > > > to attach, plus two for the frame at the ends, and > > > two "clearance" > > > > > holes for the coupler screw or kingpin. > > > > > It really looks like it was just mis-manufactured. The sides > > > have > > > > > MUCH deeper parts than these. > > > > > The cuts on the floor are dead straight, and the workmanship > on > > > > this > > > > > car would indicate to me the assembler did not have the > skills > > > to > > > > do > > > > > straight lines. > > > > > > > > > > The short channel, if too short, I will have to "lengthen" > > > somehow. > > > > > The long channel, well, I can shorten that. > > > > > Do you have one of these? > > > > > Can you stick a ruler on the inside of one, at the beand, > and > > > tell > > > > > me how far down the edge is? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In trying to figure out the disparity in the unequal sides > of > > > > > > your "floor," I can only come up with the possibility of > the > > > car > > > > > being > > > > > > wrongly assembled with the "floor" actually being one of > the > > > > metal > > > > > > sides. Both the metal sides and the floor are stamped > > channel > > > > > sections > > > > > > and appear similar, although these metal sides have > unequal > > > lips > > > > > along > > > > > > the length of the channel on either side. > > > > > > > > > > > > While not coming up with your measurements, the lip along > one > > > > edge > > > > > is a > > > > > > bit over 1/4" (.25+") and the lip along the other edge is > > 1/8" > > > > > (.125") > > > > > > on these metal sides. The width of the metal sides (1 > 3/16") > > > are > > > > > also > > > > > > about 1/16" narrower than the width of the floor (1 > 1/4"). > > If > > > > > > your "floor" is 1 3/16" wide, it is a metal side instead. > I > > > > don't > > > > > know > > > > > > if this is at all the problem, but am only going by what > your > > > > > > description seems to be telling me if I'm following it > right, > > > but > > > > > will > > > > > > admit its not 100% clear to me. A quick check of the > > diagrams > > > > > will > > > > > > show what I'm getting at. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" > > <idioticyahoo@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > > > > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in > length. > > > > > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > > > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I > don't > > > > have > > > > > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) > > what > > > > > goes > > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, > or > > > is > > > > > it > > > > > > just > > > > > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower > > > plate > > > > > that > > > > > > > glued on? > > > > > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end > beams, > > > and > > > > > install > > > > > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but > it's > > > back > > > > > on > > > > > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3353	From: erieberk	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Yeah, you're right; thin wood or maybe even a layer of tin cardboard to first build the sides out from the aluminum sub-sides -- shouldn't take much. I prefer the look of extending the sides down, to cover the floor sill, but too many early modelers did not take this added measure,m resulting in the "dished" look of these cars we're now finding. Yes, I remember both the Ambroid and the Testor's glues from that time. We thought they were good (not many other choices back then)! A contact cement would probably work best for these sides. If Dave's careful, and cuts the sides right at the top edge of the line and immediately beneath the "Mantua" print at the top, there should just about be enough material to cover the floor sill, if he'd prefer to build it that way. Best, Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Thanks--but I'm not the one rebuilding the car--I just mailed a set and a half of sides--embossed cardstock--to Dave--they have the cut lines you describe. I don't have the complete kit handy to refer to. Still somewhere in a box. > > I would use some wood backing behind the aluminum sub-sides, as many of the cars I have seen are "dished". Back when these kits were made, we did not have too many choices in adhesives. Acetate cements like Ambroid, or Testors" Formulas "A" and "B" were the best choice then. Now I think that a contact-type like Pliobond, or even an office rubber cement might be better. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 8:47 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > Glenn, Please read my instructions on attaching the Mantua paper > card sides, if you haven't already done so (my message #3317), or if > you have, please don't ignore them. As instructed both in text and > as diagrams in their sheet, for proper construction Mantua directs > the modeler to trim the cardboard sides to the same size as the metal > sides. These cardboard (paper) sides DO NOT overlap the sides of the > channel (floor section) as per Mantua's directions. > > Some, but not all sides have cut lines printed along the bottom. All > sides have "MANTUA METAL PRODUCTS CO., WOODBURY HEIGHTS, N.J." > printed across the top, to be trimmed off. Those sides not having > the cut line across the bottom can be trimmed lower to overlap the > 1/8" lip of the floor (channel section), but not before being shimmed > out from the metal sides. While this is not the correct way to > assemble the car according to the Mantua instructions, it may be more > esthetically pleasing to some modelers, but to not first build the > cardboard sides out is to invite the telltale sign of a distinctly > noticeable and distracting crease along the length of the uneven > joint where the sides meet the floor channel section. Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides overlap > the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines marked on > them--gj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > > there. > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it > just > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > that > > glued on? > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > install > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > on > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3354	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Thought about that, but if I put it on top, the floor will be angled from the side, if on the bottom, still have a "fill" to bring it out, and trim to clear the frame. I'm going to wait until I see the actual sides before proceeding. If these are as thick as the cardboard boxcar sides I took off, I'll be set. Dave > For the shallow (.080") side/edge of your channel floor, you could > use thin aluminum to either add to the inner part of that edge or > make a new bent edge, covering the outside of the the existing lip -- > if this material is still available in hobby shops. I don't know if > it is still available, only as I haven't looked for it (have enough > on hand), but years back K & S Engineering offered aluminum (also > tin, brass & copper) sheet metal in 4" x 10" packages in various > thicknesses, the thinnest being .016" (the thinnest brass was .005" > and tin was .008"). > > Your mention of the '41 Lincoln Continental made me drool. I > remember seeing a convertible for sale back in '58, which I sure > would have liked, but it was priced at $1200 which at that time was > probably equivilent to about $30,000 today (you could buy an average > house back then for about $15,000 or less), and was just too far out > of my price range for a kid. I had just bought for first car (used) > a year earlier -- a '49 Ford Coupe -- which I paid $300 for which > took me a year and a half to save up for (wages were probably around > $1.25 an hour; I don't recall exactly). Anyway, glad you had > some "fun" putting that one back together. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > 'salright. > > I could make a nw floor, or cut the "long" side down to about .100". > > The .080" is obviously .030" shallow. > > I'll look at adding to the inner part of the edge with some > styrene, > > maybe find something to "fill" the styrene out to match the > existing > > aluminum. > > Now that I know it's supposed to be about .110", and can see they > > mis-bent this, since the holes were punched after the bend, no way > > to re-bend it without making the floor swiss cheese. > > I could just add a thin sill plate, painted to match roof and ends. > > > > I'll ponder it for a bit. > > At least this wasn't as hard as putting the steering column and > > shifter assembly into a 1941 Lincoln V-12 Continental for my > > neighbor a week ago. > > > > He'd taken it apart November of 1988. > > > > Works now, but what a trip. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > The edge depth of the channel floor section is a little less than > > > 1/8", or .110" when using my micrometer. Both edges of course > > being > > > equal. Looks like your floor piece was off center when it went > > under > > > the press break to bend these edges. You're right, I don't > > believe I > > > did give you this measurement before, sorry (I thought I had). > Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, the floor section is longer than the sides. > > > > When I look at this on the web, I am not sure if there > > are "older" > > > > messages until I go scroll back through. > > > > The lengths are good, shows the floor is NOT a modified side. > > > > What I was looking for as far as a measurement, and you may > have > > > > posted in a message I have not yet found, is the channel edge > > depth > > > > of the floor section. > > > > What I have found is side measurements. > > > > Since these parts that hang down on the floor section are > > different > > > > on each side of mine, one being .080", the other about .131" or > > so, > > > > if I knew what the ID was on yours, I'd know whether to trim > one > > > > side or add to the other. > > > > On the short side, the edges of the frame are just visible, on > > the > > > > long side, well hidden. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had thought about the mounting holes too, but figured if > > > someone > > > > > was that intent on assembling the model in a messed up > > fashion, > > > > they > > > > > could also drill new holes if they really wanted to -- > > although > > > > that > > > > > would be a lot more work. One give-away is that the two > metal > > > > sides > > > > > are 5 9/16" long, while the metal floor section is 5 5/8" > long > > > (if > > > > > they were left full size and not reworked). Could just be > > that > > > > the > > > > > kit was mis-manufactured, though. Yes, I have one of my kits > > > > right > > > > > in front of me and will measure any dimension you need. > > Unless > > > > I'm > > > > > misunderstanding you, I've already given you the sizes (of > > both > > > > the > > > > > metal sides and the floor) between the bends, and from each > > bend > > > > out > > > > > to the edge, if that's what you mean. If that's not the > > > > measurement > > > > > you're looking for, please run that by me again so I can > > better > > > > > understand it. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" > <idioticyahoo@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought the same thing, except the floor has the 6 > > mounting > > > > holes > > > > > > to attach, plus two for the frame at the ends, and > > > > two "clearance" > > > > > > holes for the coupler screw or kingpin. > > > > > > It really looks like it was just mis-manufactured. The > sides > > > > have > > > > > > MUCH deeper parts than these. > > > > > > The cuts on the floor are dead straight, and the > workmanship > > on > > > > > this > > > > > > car would indicate to me the assembler did not have the > > skills > > > > to > > > > > do > > > > > > straight lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > The short channel, if too short, I will have to "lengthen" > > > > somehow. > > > > > > The long channel, well, I can shorten that. > > > > > > Do you have one of these? > > > > > > Can you stick a ruler on the inside of one, at the beand, > > and > > > > tell > > > > > > me how far down the edge is? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In trying to figure out the disparity in the unequal > sides > > of > > > > > > > your "floor," I can only come up with the possibility of > > the > > > > car > > > > > > being > > > > > > > wrongly assembled with the "floor" actually being one of > > the > > > > > metal > > > > > > > sides. Both the metal sides and the floor are stamped > > > channel > > > > > > sections > > > > > > > and appear similar, although these metal sides have > > unequal > > > > lips > > > > > > along > > > > > > > the length of the channel on either side. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While not coming up with your measurements, the lip along > > one > > > > > edge > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > bit over 1/4" (.25+") and the lip along the other edge is > > > 1/8" > > > > > > (.125") > > > > > > > on these metal sides. The width of the metal sides (1 > > 3/16") > > > > are > > > > > > also > > > > > > > about 1/16" narrower than the width of the floor (1 > > 1/4"). > > > If > > > > > > > your "floor" is 1 3/16" wide, it is a metal side > instead. > > I > > > > > don't > > > > > > know > > > > > > > if this is at all the problem, but am only going by what > > your > > > > > > > description seems to be telling me if I'm following it > > right, > > > > but > > > > > > will > > > > > > > admit its not 100% clear to me. A quick check of the > > > diagrams > > > > > > will > > > > > > > show what I'm getting at. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" > > > <idioticyahoo@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and > corroded). > > > > > > > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in > > length. > > > > > > > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > > > > > > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I > > don't > > > > > have > > > > > > > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) > > > what > > > > > > goes > > > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the > bottom, > > or > > > > is > > > > > > it > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a > lower > > > > plate > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > glued on? > > > > > > > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end > > beams, > > > > and > > > > > > install > > > > > > > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but > > it's > > > > back > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3355	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers

Well--I dug out a lot of my Mantua stuff--didn't find the reefer kit--but did find a gondola kit.  The Box and Reefer sides do end at the top of the floor piece, but would definitely look better if extended--there is enough material to do it--perhaps covering the "Mantua" print with a fascia board.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:01 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers Yeah, you're right; thin wood or maybe even a layer of tin cardboard to first build the sides out from the aluminum sub-sides -- shouldn't take much. I prefer the look of extending the sides down, to cover the floor sill, but too many early modelers did not take this added measure,m resulting in the "dished" look of these cars we're now finding. Yes, I remember both the Ambroid and the Testor's glues from that time. We thought they were good (not many other choices back then)! A contact cement would probably work best for these sides. If Dave's careful, and cuts the sides right at the top edge of the line and immediately beneath the "Mantua" print at the top, there should just about be enough material to cover the floor sill, if he'd prefer to build it that way. Best, Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > Thanks--but I'm not the one rebuilding the car--I just mailed a set and a half of sides--embossed cardstock--to Dave--they have the cut lines you describe. I don't have the complete kit handy to refer to. Still somewhere in a box. > > I would use some wood backing behind the aluminum sub-sides, as many of the cars I have seen are "dished". Back when these kits were made, we did not have too many choices in adhesives. Acetate cements like Ambroid, or Testors" Formulas "A" and "B" were the best choice then. Now I think that a contact-type like Pliobond, or even an office rubber cement might be better. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 8:47 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > Glenn, Please read my instructions on attaching the Mantua paper > card sides, if you haven't already done so (my message #3317), or if > you have, please don't ignore them. As instructed both in text and > as diagrams in their sheet, for proper construction Mantua directs > the modeler to trim the cardboard sides to the same size as the metal > sides. These cardboard (paper) sides DO NOT overlap the sides of the > channel (floor section) as per Mantua's directions. > > Some, but not all sides have cut lines printed along the bottom. All > sides have "MANTUA METAL PRODUCTS CO., WOODBURY HEIGHTS, N.J." > printed across the top, to be trimmed off. Those sides not having > the cut line across the bottom can be trimmed lower to overlap the > 1/8" lip of the floor (channel section), but not before being shimmed > out from the metal sides. While this is not the correct way to > assemble the car according to the Mantua instructions, it may be more > esthetically pleasing to some modelers, but to not first build the > cardboard sides out is to invite the telltale sign of a distinctly > noticeable and distracting crease along the length of the uneven > joint where the sides meet the floor channel section. Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > The floor should be a wide channel section--the paper sides overlap > the sides of the channel. The card sides have cut lines marked on > them--gj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:42 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Metal Mantua Reefers > > > > > > I have just re-kitted one (badly assembled and corroded). > > The "floor" on this one is different on each side in length. > > One side drops .080", the other .132". > > I have looked at catalog photos, cannot tell (since I don't have > > reefer sides yet....this one had boxcar sides glued on) what goes > > there. > > Does the paper reefer side go all the way to the bottom, or is it > just > > exposed metal floor edge (painted), or was there a lower plate > that > > glued on? > > I still have to fix the coupler pockets on the end beams, and > install > > Mantua couplers, and a new brake staff and wheel, but it's back > on > > it's feet waiting sides. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3356	From: coronetbb	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Nice Train meet in Allentown pa this weekend

Just wanted to let everyone know there is a train meet this weekend at Merchants square Mall 1901 S 12th st Allentown Pa April 15th 10am-3pm There is over 10,000 square feet of model and toy trains, Doecast, Railroadania nad more. Visit www.lehighvalleytrainmeet.com for more info. If you are a train fan this is a must do. Plus there is some dicast and car collectables.See you there Kevin Redcay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3357	From: Scott	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: NE PA Model Railroad Club

Hey all..... Just a little message in case there are some HO scale model railroaders in the NE PA area. I'm forming the NE PA Model Railroad Club. I'm currently looking for charter members to help me get this thing rolling. If anyone is interested, let me know. Scott

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3358	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Vertical brake staffs

I decided to do more moron-elimiation and actually add the missing brake staffs (after ladders and grabs). I looked at options, got some of the flat Mantua boiler stanchions from yardbird, and used some .025 music wire. Bent the wire in a square "J" to fit up under the floor, and two of the stanchions in the car end. I looked at the height, roughed out 1/8" to the foot, looked at what we do in other scales, set these initially at 7/16" exposed above the roofline where the staff meets the edge. What height do you guys use? I figured with these press-in stanchions and music wire, no bent brake staffs......

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3359	From: erieberk	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs

While the verticle brake wheel height did vary on prototype freight cars of the '20's and '30's, their height was between 2' and 2 1/2' above the roofline (or 1 1/2' to 2' above the endwalk on box cars and endwalk/ice hatch on reefers). This is between a brakeman's knee height (1 1/2') up to his crotch height (2'). Earlier, pre-1900's cars had the brakewheel a bit over waist high, which seems about where you have yours at 3 1/2', a bit too high I think. I set mine at 1/4" (2') over the roofline. Kratville Publication's "Railroad Car Journal" (#1 Box Cars August 1971) shows several various heights on both pre-1900's and '20's, '30's cars). I would go no higher than 5/16". Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I decided to do more moron-elimiation and actually add the missing > brake staffs (after ladders and grabs). > I looked at options, got some of the flat Mantua boiler stanchions > from yardbird, and used some .025 music wire. > Bent the wire in a square "J" to fit up under the floor, and two of > the stanchions in the car end. > I looked at the height, roughed out 1/8" to the foot, looked at what > we do in other scales, set these initially at 7/16" exposed above the > roofline where the staff meets the edge. > What height do you guys use? > > I figured with these press-in stanchions and music wire, no bent brake > staffs...... >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3360	From: erieberk	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been up to.

Another nice find! Great addition to the collection. At first I wasn't sure if Megow produced passenger cars as my 1939 10th anniversary Megow catalog does not show any, only freight cars (and parts & accessories) and stuff. But a slightly later catalog shows a "brand new" passenger car kit (No. Q-27), a printed and embossed- side Pennsylvania coach. It was produced as Pennsylvania Red (like yours) with Gold Trim -- including the pre-printed P E N N S Y L V A N I A lettering. Noticed that your's had no lettering, so may not be a Megow. However, Lockhart-Laconia's catalog shows them as producing standard 80' coaches in unlettered embossed aluminum (painted red or green) sided kits, among their other passenger car offerings. Its possible that this is what you have if your sides have not been painted over, and if they're of thin aluminum (if you can tell). Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Not much in the way of new aquisitions lately, been concentrating more on > finishing up projects that have been languishing on the bench. Latest major > project is getting passenger cars in shape. I've added quite a few to my > "xDon Dellmann's stuff/passenger cars" album on the group home page, a mix > of Varney, Samson, Herkimer/Kasiner, MHP, KMT and Blue Line cars. > > Also, latest rehab, the coach below, which is, from vintage ads in MR, I > believe a WW-II era Megow car. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3361	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs

Probably due to the roof angle these are built to (steep!) the wheel is 1.4" above the actual roofwalk. I'll look at it for a while, I can move the wheel no problem. Dave > > While the verticle brake wheel height did vary on prototype freight > cars of the '20's and '30's, their height was between 2' and 2 1/2' > above the roofline (or 1 1/2' to 2' above the endwalk on box cars and > endwalk/ice hatch on reefers). This is between a brakeman's knee > height (1 1/2') up to his crotch height (2'). Earlier, pre-1900's cars > had the brakewheel a bit over waist high, which seems about where you > have yours at 3 1/2', a bit too high I think. I set mine at 1/4" (2') > over the roofline. Kratville Publication's "Railroad Car Journal" (#1 > Box Cars August 1971) shows several various heights on both pre- 1900's > and '20's, '30's cars). I would go no higher than 5/16". Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > I decided to do more moron-elimiation and actually add the missing > > brake staffs (after ladders and grabs). > > I looked at options, got some of the flat Mantua boiler stanchions > > from yardbird, and used some .025 music wire. > > Bent the wire in a square "J" to fit up under the floor, and two of > > the stanchions in the car end. > > I looked at the height, roughed out 1/8" to the foot, looked at what > > we do in other scales, set these initially at 7/16" exposed above the > > roofline where the staff meets the edge. > > What height do you guys use? > > > > I figured with these press-in stanchions and music wire, no bent > brake > > staffs...... > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3362	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs

Most of my vertical staffs are on narrow gauge cars, where the brakeman actually stood on the roof.  The wheel was about waist high, so about 3 ft above the roof.  On a car with a brake step, it would probably be 3 ft above the step.   I just looked it up in the standards--there is no set height, just a minimum clearance of 4 inches around the brake wheel. Brake staff should be a minimum diameter of 1.25", so I'd go with .015" music wire, rather than .025".  I use that in On3. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:54 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Vertical brake staffs I decided to do more moron-elimiation and actually add the missing brake staffs (after ladders and grabs). I looked at options, got some of the flat Mantua boiler stanchions from yardbird, and used some .025 music wire. Bent the wire in a square "J" to fit up under the floor, and two of the stanchions in the car end. I looked at the height, roughed out 1/8" to the foot, looked at what we do in other scales, set these initially at 7/16" exposed above the roofline where the staff meets the edge. What height do you guys use? I figured with these press-in stanchions and music wire, no bent brake staffs......

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3363	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been up to.

----- Original Message ----- From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 7:03 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What I've been up to. > Another nice find! Great addition to the collection. At first I > wasn't sure if Megow produced passenger cars as my 1939 10th > anniversary Megow catalog does not show any, only freight cars (and > parts & accessories) and stuff. But a slightly later catalog shows > a "brand new" passenger car kit (No. Q-27), a printed and embossed- > side Pennsylvania coach. It was produced as Pennsylvania Red (like > yours) with Gold Trim -- including the pre-printed P E N N S Y L V A > N I A lettering. Noticed that your's had no lettering, so may not be > a Megow. > > However, Lockhart-Laconia's catalog shows them as producing standard > 80' coaches in unlettered embossed aluminum (painted red or green) > sided kits, among their other passenger car offerings. Its possible > that this is what you have if your sides have not been painted over, > and if they're of thin aluminum (if you can tell). Ray My sides are cardstock and HAVE been painted (you can see where the Pennsylvania lettering has been painted out). I stand by the Megow idea. I saw an ad in an MR I have from the mid 40's and it's virtually identical. What's unusual about it vs. other coaches is the vestibule at only one end. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3364	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs

Hmm. I use .020" for handrails, and the vertical staffs I have seen (and grew up with) were bigger around than handrails. Looks fine, and won't bend..... > > Most of my vertical staffs are on narrow gauge cars, where the brakeman actually stood on the roof. The wheel was about waist high, so about 3 ft above the roof. On a car with a brake step, it would probably be 3 ft above the step. > > I just looked it up in the standards--there is no set height, just a minimum clearance of 4 inches around the brake wheel. Brake staff should be a minimum diameter of 1.25", so I'd go with .015" music wire, rather than .025". I use that in On3. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:54 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Vertical brake staffs > > > I decided to do more moron-elimiation and actually add the missing > brake staffs (after ladders and grabs). > I looked at options, got some of the flat Mantua boiler stanchions > from yardbird, and used some .025 music wire. > Bent the wire in a square "J" to fit up under the floor, and two of > the stanchions in the car end. > I looked at the height, roughed out 1/8" to the foot, looked at what > we do in other scales, set these initially at 7/16" exposed above the > roofline where the staff meets the edge. > What height do you guys use? > > I figured with these press-in stanchions and music wire, no bent brake > staffs...... >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3365	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Pennsy P-70

Attachments : Not positive what this is. The tinplate sides fold under the wooded floor, like pre "silver anniversary" Walthers cars, but the extremely flat roof suggests "JC" to me. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3366	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher

Hello Guys! I am working on a restoration... I need new drivers.. Does anyone have any?? Some one previously decided to cut the axles to make it run on N scale track and reallt did a botched up job. I figred I would first ask the group before I would try to make something else work. I have posted pics in the photos of the current restoration. Thanks. Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3367	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher

Attachments : Hello All, I need drivers for this engine if anyone can help. Thanks, Sean Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3368	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher

What's wrong with the drivers? Sounds like you need new axles, and bets are something else would work. Call Dan. > > Hello All, > I need drivers for this engine if anyone can help. > Thanks, Sean > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3369	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher

The guy cut the axles and then jammed the drivers further into the axles. It appears to me the holes in the drivers for the axles have been damaged. I am sure something else would work, but I was hoping for original first, if at all possible. I was going to ask Dan as well... He has a couple parts he is sending me anyway... curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: What's wrong with the drivers? Sounds like you need new axles, and bets are something else would work. Call Dan. > > Hello All, > I need drivers for this engine if anyone can help. > Thanks, Sean > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3370	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher

Have you looked at the Bowser-Trains steamer drivers as a possible source? What size are those drivers??? Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Apr 14, 2007, at 11:08 PM, sean naylor wrote: Hello All, I need drivers for this engine if anyone can help. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3371	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher

Do you know the scale driver size?  A lot of Lindsay parts were made by Kemtron in later years.  They listed a 45" driver that looks like yours, p/n 1840 (plain) & 1842 "geared), it would not surprise me if these are still available from Precision Scale.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher Hello All, I need drivers for this engine if anyone can help. Thanks, Sean Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3372	From: Larry	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher

This switcher also came with siderods. Looking at the picture it seems the wheels will need to be replaced. I guess this depend if your going to put the siderods on. The crankpin holes do look out of shape in the photo. This is just a thought, the old Revelle steam (0-4-0, 0-6-0) switchers seems to have similar wheels to the ones pictured. http://hoseeker.net/lindsay/lindsaycatalogpg3.jpg Larry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello All, > I need drivers for this engine if anyone can help. > Thanks, Sean > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3373	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: ITEMS FORSALE: See the list in the File Secition...

Hi to all of the group. Well I have come up with a list of items that I am wanting to sell (not on EBAY! only here!) You can find my text in the file section under the heading "I Have The Following AHM/---". Yours Truly, Mary Ann "Arti" Obuch, Down & Under AND Over & Across Railway A HO Scale layout!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3374	From: erieberk	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Pennsy P-70

Not exactly sure by what you mean by "tinplate" in this context, but as you might already know the J-C sides were thin (.012" - .016") aluminum; they were not folded under the wooden floor, so I doubt this is a Silver Sides. A clue which may be of some help -- on J-C Silver Sides, "the ends are cast metal with plenty of rivet detail and embody a cast diaphragm," as per their catalog sheet. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Not positive what this is. The tinplate sides fold under the wooded floor, > like pre "silver anniversary" Walthers cars, but the extremely flat roof > suggests "JC" to me. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3375	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher

Both the drivers and the axels are shot. The previous owner jammed the drivers onto the old cut axels (not very straight I might add). The holes for the axels were damaged and not perfectly circular. I managed to find a packet of about 20+/- axels in a box in my attic. The were a little too long, but for a jerry-rig job, the worked. I removed the drivers, gear and brass bushing/bearings and installed them on the new axels. The axels were very very slightly smaller, so I had to super-glue the gear, centering spacer on the rear driver & 4 drivers in place, but it worked. They fit snug, but not tight, so I had to glue. I was concerned about losing contact. I made sure the drivers were spaced & alligned properly for the placement of the drive rods (which I do need, but can make, if needed). I adjusted the contact wire and pit it on my test track. It ran like a champ! Anyone have any side rods? Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: What's wrong with the drivers? Sounds like you need new axles, and bets are something else would work. Call Dan. > > Hello All, > I need drivers for this engine if anyone can help. > Thanks, Sean > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3376	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Pennsy P-70

From what you say I'd guess then it's probably a pre 1959 Walthers. Thanks Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 12:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Pennsy P-70 > Not exactly sure by what you mean by "tinplate" in this context, but as > you might already know the J-C sides were thin (.012" - .016") > aluminum; they were not folded under the wooden floor, so I doubt this > is a Silver Sides. A clue which may be of some help -- on J-C Silver > Sides, "the ends are cast metal with plenty of rivet detail and embody > a cast diaphragm," as per their catalog sheet. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> Not positive what this is. The tinplate sides fold under the wooded > floor, >> like pre "silver anniversary" Walthers cars, but the extremely flat > roof >> suggests "JC" to me. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3377	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Parts needed as I move along.....

Most are okay, but I need 4 cast end beams with poling pockets, like the old Walthers or what I think I recall from Silver Streak units. Any rectangular coupler pocket is immaterial at this point. I have two cars without. Also, still looking for one for a WWII and slightly later black plastic unit for an embossed cardboard Varney boxcar, have one full one and a bit over 1/3 of the other. I think I have all the trucks located I need at this point. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3378	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....

Attachments : Dave... Is the plastic end beam you need? I have diecast as well. Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Most are okay, but I need 4 cast end beams with poling pockets, like the old Walthers or what I think I recall from Silver Streak units. Any rectangular coupler pocket is immaterial at this point. I have two cars without. Also, still looking for one for a WWII and slightly later black plastic unit for an embossed cardboard Varney boxcar, have one full one and a bit over 1/3 of the other. I think I have all the trucks located I need at this point. Dave Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3379	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....

One plastic for the war-vintage Varney (I e-mailed you a drawing to show what it looked like), and 4 of the die-cast soft-metal end beams, the rectangular bracket the hangs off the coupler pocket does not need to be there (Mantua Couplers I cut them off anyway). I'll clean and paint, can be grungy. Got an Ulrich composite gondola complete except for the ends. I can make the beams and end panels, but for a more vintage appearance, cast beams work better. The other is this Binkley stock. Just doesn't look right with plain ends somehow. Let me know. You still have the address? Dave > > Dave... > Is the plastic end beam you need? I have diecast as well. > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Most are okay, but I need 4 cast end beams with poling pockets, like > the old Walthers or what I think I recall from Silver Streak units. > Any rectangular coupler pocket is immaterial at this point. > I have two cars without. > > Also, still looking for one for a WWII and slightly later black > plastic unit for an embossed cardboard Varney boxcar, have one full > one and a bit over 1/3 of the other. > > I think I have all the trucks located I need at this point. > > Dave > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3380	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....

Hello Dave, I just want to be sure this is the beam. I am happy to send it free, but I want to be sure. I looked at the piece and the pic you sent ant it looks right for me, but since I have taken it out of a box of parts, i want to be sure. I have nothing to compare it to... so please look at the pic and tell me if it is what you want. Thanks, Sean Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3381	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....

Sure looks like it to me, including the tabs to fit under the floor. My eyesight without the visor isn't as good as the photo, but holding the unit in hand, it sure looks like an exact match! Dave > > Hello Dave, > I just want to be sure this is the beam. I am happy to send it free, but I want to be sure. I looked at the piece and the pic you sent ant it looks right for me, but since I have taken it out of a box of parts, i want to be sure. I have nothing to compare it to... so please look at the pic and tell me if it is what you want. Thanks, Sean > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3382	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....

I got a better look at mine, and even the rivet count and position is exactly as your photo! Thanks! Dave > > Hello Dave, > I just want to be sure this is the beam. I am happy to send it free, but I want to be sure. I looked at the piece and the pic you sent ant it looks right for me, but since I have taken it out of a box of parts, i want to be sure. I have nothing to compare it to... so please look at the pic and tell me if it is what you want. Thanks, Sean > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3383	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/16/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....

Dave, I will see what  I have in the die-cast and let you know. Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Most are okay, but I need 4 cast end beams with poling pockets, like the old Walthers or what I think I recall from Silver Streak units. Any rectangular coupler pocket is immaterial at this point. I have two cars without. Also, still looking for one for a WWII and slightly later black plastic unit for an embossed cardboard Varney boxcar, have one full one and a bit over 1/3 of the other. I think I have all the trucks located I need at this point. Dave Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3384	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: The following parts are needed and INFO...

I am in need for some of the following parts as well as some basic INFO as to gear noise inside a Atearn's GP 9 that has flywheels. I have a older Atearn's F7A that has broken gear covers, the ones have a small bearing with a round hole at the end that snap on to the gear box. Also I need the gear that's on the axle that the wheels fit into. They have small cracks on the outer case of the gear. The locomotive does run now but I need replacement gear covers. Does the gears inside the power trucks need grease or oiling? Some of the locomotives run slow in forward but run faster in reverse. Could there be a problem which make them run this way? (I am using a TYCO power pack, 18 VDC at 20VA on my test track) I am working on an AHM/Rivarossi that has rubber tires on two of its drive wheels and I need to find a replacement for that is missing. Part ID could be P-390-014 or P-200-033-0025. I am unsure of the part ID or the ID of the locomotive, other than it is maybe an SD 9 but from the way it looks & the photo I found it could well be a GP-18 locomotive. It has a motor build in to the truck, which looks to be like what's in a FM or BL2 that I found at Hoseker online. So if anyone has the Atearn's gear cover, which uses a round bushing I am needing 4 of them and I need as set of replacement `rubber tires or traction tires' then get with me off from the group. I also have some items up forsale and I have found some Atearn's parts that I am willing to sell at a very cheap price for what I have is listed in both the Files section under the heading of "I have forsale AHM/---". And in the Photo section under "Arti's Trains & Locomotives" is where I will be placing some images of what I am working on or what I have. Yours Truly, Maryann Obuch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3385	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Varney stamped metal twin hopper

Hi, all, I recently bought a set of six vintage cars on eBay, and the seller was generous enough to throw in four more cars. One is a real mystery to me. It's a Varney stamped sheet metal embossed-side hopper (Similar to a PRR prototype). What seems to make it unusual is that the sides are all shiny metal, unpainted, and the trucks are a grey-ish color, like bare metal. The wood deck is bare wood. I've never seen something quite like this. Is it maybe a factory demonstrator car, or merely an undecorated kit that was built but never painted or lettered? It's survived remarkably well for its age. I am thinking of putting a pair of Kadee #4s on it, and leaving it as is. Anyone know anything about this? Thanks Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3386	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper

Sounds like an unpainted kit someone put together. The sides were cut out of sheets, if the pictures I've seen are right, trucks bare white metal. Just needs paint and bits, right? > > Hi, all, > > I recently bought a set of six vintage cars on eBay, and the seller > was generous enough to throw in four more cars. One is a real mystery > to me. It's a Varney stamped sheet metal embossed-side hopper (Similar > to a PRR prototype). What seems to make it unusual is that the sides > are all shiny metal, unpainted, and the trucks are a grey-ish color, > like bare metal. The wood deck is bare wood. I've never seen something > quite like this. Is it maybe a factory demonstrator car, or merely an > undecorated kit that was built but never painted or lettered? It's > survived remarkably well for its age. I am thinking of putting a pair > of Kadee #4s on it, and leaving it as is. > > Anyone know anything about this? > Thanks > Steve >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3387	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper

Dear Steve,   Are the car sides raised or distinctly projecting outward to varying degrees with panels between vertical supports?   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) railwaymodeler <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: Hi, all, I recently bought a set of six vintage cars on eBay, and the seller was generous enough to throw in four more cars. One is a real mystery to me. It's a Varney stamped sheet metal embossed-side hopper (Similar to a PRR prototype). What seems to make it unusual is that the sides are all shiny metal, unpainted, and the trucks are a grey-ish color, like bare metal. The wood deck is bare wood. I've never seen something quite like this. Is it maybe a factory demonstrator car, or merely an undecorated kit that was built but never painted or lettered? It's survived remarkably well for its age. I am thinking of putting a pair of Kadee #4s on it, and leaving it as is. Anyone know anything about this? Thanks Steve Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3388	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper

Attachments : Steve and list: Sounds like you have a VARNEY H-1 Undecorated stamped brass hopper car, made up from their kit. This is listed in VARNEY's 1941 catalog. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3389	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 4/18/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper

Well, that sounds good. I didn't know Varney made anything undec other than passenger cars. It is a very nice car, and I'll probably leave it undec for a while. Oh, and yes, there is raised panels between the support posts, as someone had asked. It reminds me of a PRR car I have by Accurail. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, DLeistikow@... wrote: > > Steve and list: Sounds like you have a VARNEY H-1 Undecorated stamped > brass hopper car, made up from their kit. > > This is listed in VARNEY's 1941 catalog. > > Don L. > > > Dear Steve, > > Are the car sides raised or distinctly projecting outward to varying degrees with panels between vertical supports? > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) > > railwaymodeler <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > Hi, all, > > I recently bought a set of six vintage cars on eBay, and the seller > was generous enough to throw in four more cars. One is a real mystery > to me. It's a Varney stamped sheet metal embossed-side hopper (Similar > to a PRR prototype). What seems to make it unusual is that the sides > are all shiny metal, unpainted, and the trucks are a grey-ish color, > like bare metal. The wood deck is bare wood. I've never seen something > quite like this. Is it maybe a factory demonstrator car, or merely an > undecorated kit that was built but never painted or lettered? It's > survived remarkably well for its age. I am thinking of putting a pair > of Kadee #4s on it, and leaving it as is. > > Anyone know anything about this? > Thanks > Steve > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3390	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/18/2007
Subject: I gotta tell ya........

I was a just looking into a model makers saw that people are saying is a great tool...... They have this testimonial letter on the home page that is too good to not pass on....... Someone just had one of -those- days.... "Hi Jim: You sure make a heavy duty saw. This morning I was moving my model shop from the basement to my 3rd floor attic. I work in the basement in the summer and the attic in the winter so I can take advantage of the climate here in Massachusetts. I had moved most of my tools upstairs when disaster struck. I carried the saw from the basement all the way to the top step of the attic when I lost my footing. For a moment I thought, I need to hold onto this saw so it doesn't get damaged - but being 78, I figured I wouldn't heal real fast, so I let it go and saved myself. Well, down it went. I watched my most cherished tool crash down on the steps and tumble ass-over-teakettle all the way down to the top landing. For a moment it teetered on the edge of the step, but it soon went down to the next landing and crashed into the wall. I heard it continue on down all the way to the first floor. I sat there for a moment, trying to figure out how I was going to convince my wife that I need a new saw, when I heard her calling to me. I started down the steps, and couldn't believe the mess the saw made of my walls and steps. I now have gouges in my sheetrock and nicks and scuffs on my stairs (and) a really large hole at the top landing that the corner of the saw fits in nicely. As I continued down the stairs I saw a lot more bumps and bruises along the way until I got to the bottom landing where my wife was standing, with the saw at her feet and her arms crossed in front of her. This usually means I am in a lot of trouble. " Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3391	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Bachmann Traction Rings/Tires Needed

Does anyone have or know where traction rings/tires can be found? I have several Bachmann Locomotives that only need new traction rings/tires to make them run. Part # 1997 (EMD F9) Maryann Obuch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3392	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted

I have several diesel locomotives, which I need to install Kadee couplers in. I have read & copied what Kadee has on their web site. I have an GP-7 as well as an GP-20 but both don't have an brand name on the bottom. I do have TYCO, as well as Life-Like and Bachmann that I have found the INFO as to what Kadee # to install. I have taken some images of what I have on hand and they are in my folder and if anyone can tell me what brand they are and/or how to install the Kadee couplers it would be a big help for me being that I have over 150 railcars and 20 locomotives that I now must do a Kadee conversion to. Maryann Obuch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3393	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted

Dear Mary Ann,   Is the GP-20 a low nose in the front? Is it plastic or brass?   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@...> wrote: I have several diesel locomotives, which I need to install Kadee couplers in. I have read & copied what Kadee has on their web site. I have an GP-7 as well as an GP-20 but both don't have an brand name on the bottom. I do have TYCO, as well as Life-Like and Bachmann that I have found the INFO as to what Kadee # to install. I have taken some images of what I have on hand and they are in my folder and if anyone can tell me what brand they are and/or how to install the Kadee couplers it would be a big help for me being that I have over 150 railcars and 20 locomotives that I now must do a Kadee conversion to. Maryann Obuch Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3394	From: donvdh	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Bachmann Traction Rings/Tires Needed

Mary Ann - Try Heirloom Trains on eBay for the traction tires. Just enter tires. It will come up. Don Van Der Horn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3395	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted

RE: Is the GP-20 a low nose in the front? Is it plastic or brass?   They are low nose made out of plastic, but has NO name of brand on the bottom of the locomotive. For I have some that are TYCO as well as Life Like, as well as some Bachmann. I will be posting some inages of what I have so that you can see what I am taking as to... Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3396	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Bachmann Traction Rings/Tires Needed

Best is to phone Bachmann's 800 number--see their site.  They are slow on email. ----- Original Message ----- From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 4:10 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Bachmann Traction Rings/Tires Needed Does anyone have or know where traction rings/tires can be found? I have several Bachmann Locomotives that only need new traction rings/tires to make them run. Part # 1997 (EMD F9) Maryann Obuch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3397	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Photos Uploaded

I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am working on and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by AHM but they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, Life-Like as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO and a few that has AHM/Rivarossi. Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made them ? One of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the older kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3398	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded

The D&H is an ALCo RS-11--the handrails look like old AHM.   GP-7U has to be fairly recent--can't read the "made in . . . " but looks fairly well made.Kadee's ought to drop in.   The two--BN and MILW--look like older AHM's--GE U-30-B's.  With the truck mounted couplers I'd build up mounting blocks of styrene and either body- or frame-mount Kadees.  You need a Kadee height gauge and at least a 2-56 drill and tap set--which I think Kadee also has.Styrene strips from Evergreen make the building of mounting blocks easy.  get an assortment of thicknesses in .250" wide.      If you cannot find instructions to mount Kadees in their web site, when you have positive ID on the locos, contact Sam Clarke at Kadee--he is available afternoons PDT--  glenn joesten     ----- Original Message ----- From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:29 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Photos Uploaded I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am working on and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by AHM but they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, Life-Like as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO and a few that has AHM/Rivarossi. Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made them ? One of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the older kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3399	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded

The GP-7U appears to be the Walthers Trainline model. Very similar to the old Model Power/ Cox brand. The Milwaukee and BN units are actually AHM Alco C-424 units.   James Bartelt jimbartelt@... Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079 METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html ----- Original Message ---- From: Glenn476 <glenn476@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:04:03 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Photos Uploaded The D&H is an ALCo RS-11--the handrails look like old AHM.   GP-7U has to be fairly recent--can' t read the "made in . . . " but looks fairly well made.Kadee's ought to drop in.   The two--BN and MILW--look like older AHM's--GE U-30-B's.  With the truck mounted couplers I'd build up mounting blocks of styrene and either body- or frame-mount Kadees.  You need a Kadee height gauge and at least a 2-56 drill and tap set--which I think Kadee also has.Styrene strips from Evergreen make the building of mounting blocks easy.  get an assortment of thicknesses in .250" wide.      If you cannot find instructions to mount Kadees in their web site, when you have positive ID on the locos, contact Sam Clarke at Kadee--he is available afternoons PDT--  glenn joesten     ----- Original Message ----- From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:29 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Photos Uploaded I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am working on and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by AHM but they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, Life-Like as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO and a few that has AHM/Rivarossi. Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made them ? One of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the older kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3400	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded

Weird. I've been trying for almost an hour to access the photo section. No luck. Even the big picture on the home page isn't there anymore. All other yahoo groups are okay. > > The GP-7U appears to be the Walthers Trainline model. Very similar to the old Model Power/ Cox brand. The Milwaukee and BN units are actually AHM Alco C-424 units. > > James Bartelt > jimbartelt@... > > Jim¢s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo¢s > http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079 > > METRO RR Club > http://www.metrorrclub.org > > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 > http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Glenn476 <glenn476@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:04:03 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Photos Uploaded > > The D&H is an ALCo RS-11--the handrails look like old AHM. > > GP-7U has to be fairly recent--can' t read the "made in . . . " but looks fairly well made.Kadee's ought to drop in. > > The two--BN and MILW--look like older AHM's--GE U-30-B's. With the truck mounted couplers I'd build up mounting blocks of styrene and either body- or frame-mount Kadees. You need a Kadee height gauge and at least a 2-56 drill and tap set--which I think Kadee also has.Styrene strips from Evergreen make the building of mounting blocks easy. get an assortment of thicknesses in .250" wide. > > If you cannot find instructions to mount Kadees in their web site, when you have positive ID on the locos, contact Sam Clarke at Kadee-- he is available afternoons PDT-- glenn joesten > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:29 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Photos Uploaded > > > I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am working on > and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by AHM but > they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, Life- Like > as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO and a few > that has AHM/Rivarossi. > > Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made them ? One > of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the older > kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. > > Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch... >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3401	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted

Mary Ann,   Irrespective of what company built your "mysterious" GP-20's, the solution may be to look at the present coupler mountings and see if an existing Kadee type can fit into the mounting case or "draft gear box" there. Seriously. The Kadee book may not specify so, but you can see for yourself.    One problem some present - "truck-mounted couplers". In real life...no such thing...not on a GP-20. Such prototypical arrangements would be very, very rare. The truck-mounted coupler has to go. It presents a problem on curves, especially the smaller ones, when coupled to another locomotive or freight/passenger car which has a body/chassis-mounted draft gear box/coupler.   If you have to affix a draft gear-screw mount the assembly. The stress of pulling and coupling will undo most glues over the long haul. Invest in a set of taps and small designated wrenches (1-72, 1-80, etc) that you should be able to get locally (walthers makes them) for drilling holes (appropriate drill bits for the respective taps). They will all help.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)          maobuch@... wrote: RE: Is the GP-20 a low nose in the front? Is it plastic or brass?   They are low nose made out of plastic, but has NO name of brand on the bottom of the locomotive. For I have some that are TYCO as well as Life Like, as well as some Bachmann. I will be posting some inages of what I have so that you can see what I am taking as to... Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch     Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3402	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded & Locomotive INFO Update

Re: Photos Uploaded & Locomotive INFO Update Hi, I did find out that the BN & Milwauke are both ALCO 424’s & I have send a message to Kadee for they show a cross (#31) coupler for them. I now have noted that the D&H locomotive is an AHM RS-11 but no other INFO was found on http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html or on Kadee.com for I have looked at both & now I will contact Kadee and see if they can tell me what to use on that locomotive. For I have found replacement couplers for most of my TYCO, Bachmann & Life-Like and have done a lot of replacing as to couplers and cleaning wheels and fixing any motor problems as well. I will be looking closer to the brand on the GP-7u, which I do think is AHM or was made by Walthers & if so then I will look at my guide sheet & see if there is a Kadee coupler for that one. I have found out as to the rubber tires, which some of the locomotives need and my main hobby shop (Walthers) will have them but I will be giving my OKC (Ok City) hobby shop an call and see if he has them. I would like to think everyone for their help Mary Ann Obuch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3403	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded

I just rebuilt a bunch of those. The first one, the Athearn F-7A, you need to get the motor in the chassis right. It's down by the nose, throwing the driveshafts out of line. The second photo is a pancake-motored Bachmann. If it runs, good, and when it quits makes a good non-powered dummy "A". Third and fourth, bets are "made in Yugoslavia", once again, when it quits...... I've had housings split, sideframes fall off, gears spit teeth, armatures smoke. No parts. Photos five and six, had a chassis like that in here, almost looks Lionel, but AHM/Rivarossi springs to mind (and they probably made them for Lionel). No parts. Well, there is one outfit that has some, but they charge more than the loco is worth. 7 & 8, got any data like country of origin? Shot of the top of the chassis might help. Dave > > I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am working on > and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by AHM but > they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, Life- Like > as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO and a few > that has AHM/Rivarossi. > > Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made them ? One > of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the older > kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. > > Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch... >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3404	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded

Just got an order from Kadee--(right over the mountain)--there are several pages of info on coupler conversions.  Contact them and request the HO Coupler Conversion List dated 1/22/07.  Also you should get with that the "Kadee News" which lists two packages.  If you do not already have the height gauge and trip pin pliers the #1030 pack looks good.  Otherwise the #13 test package has samples of several different couplers.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:29 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Photos Uploaded I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am working on and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by AHM but they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, Life-Like as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO and a few that has AHM/Rivarossi. Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made them ? One of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the older kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3405	From: donvdh	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded

Dave - Don Vander horn here. I have a lot of Lionel pieces. Could you give me the name of the people with the gold-plated parts? ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:34 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos Uploaded I just rebuilt a bunch of those. The first one, the Athearn F-7A, you need to get the motor in the chassis right. It's down by the nose, throwing the driveshafts out of line. The second photo is a pancake-motored Bachmann. If it runs, good, and when it quits makes a good non-powered dummy "A". Third and fourth, bets are "made in Yugoslavia", once again, when it quits...... I've had housings split, sideframes fall off, gears spit teeth, armatures smoke. No parts. Photos five and six, had a chassis like that in here, almost looks Lionel, but AHM/Rivarossi springs to mind (and they probably made them for Lionel). No parts. Well, there is one outfit that has some, but they charge more than the loco is worth. 7 & 8, got any data like country of origin? Shot of the top of the chassis might help. Dave > > I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am working on > and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by AHM but > they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, Life- Like > as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO and a few > that has AHM/Rivarossi. > > Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made them ? One > of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the older > kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. > > Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch... >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3406	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded

I think it's called Manor Hobbies. They have Rivarossi parts, and the forums tend to indicate they are extremely proud of them. But, they have them. I have Lionel parts, too, but not much AHM/Rivarossi. > > Dave - Don Vander horn here. I have a lot of Lionel pieces. Could you give me the name of the people with the gold-plated parts? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:34 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos Uploaded > > > I just rebuilt a bunch of those. > The first one, the Athearn F-7A, you need to get the motor in the > chassis right. > It's down by the nose, throwing the driveshafts out of line. > The second photo is a pancake-motored Bachmann. > If it runs, good, and when it quits makes a good non-powered > dummy "A". > Third and fourth, bets are "made in Yugoslavia", once again, when it > quits...... > I've had housings split, sideframes fall off, gears spit teeth, > armatures smoke. > No parts. > Photos five and six, had a chassis like that in here, almost looks > Lionel, but AHM/Rivarossi springs to mind (and they probably made > them for Lionel). > No parts. > Well, there is one outfit that has some, but they charge more than > the loco is worth. > 7 & 8, got any data like country of origin? > Shot of the top of the chassis might help. > > Dave > > > > > I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am working > on > > and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by AHM > but > > they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, Life- > Like > > as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO and a > few > > that has AHM/Rivarossi. > > > > Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made > them ? One > > of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the > older > > kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. > > > > Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch... > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3407	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded

Speaking of Lionel parts, I have 2 Lionel GS4's that need new driver sets. They both have drivers that are broken off of their axles. curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: I think it's called Manor Hobbies. They have Rivarossi parts, and the forums tend to indicate they are extremely proud of them. But, they have them. I have Lionel parts, too, but not much AHM/Rivarossi. > > Dave - Don Vander horn here. I have a lot of Lionel pieces. Could you give me the name of the people with the gold-plated parts? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:34 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos Uploaded > > > I just rebuilt a bunch of those. > The first one, the Athearn F-7A, you need to get the motor in the > chassis right. > It's down by the nose, throwing the driveshafts out of line. > The second photo is a pancake-motored Bachmann. > If it runs, good, and when it quits makes a good non-powered > dummy "A". > Third and fourth, bets are "made in Yugoslavia", once again, when it > quits...... > I've had housings split, sideframes fall off, gears spit teeth, > armatures smoke. > No parts. > Photos five and six, had a chassis like that in here, almost looks > Lionel, but AHM/Rivarossi springs to mind (and they probably made > them for Lionel). > No parts. > Well, there is one outfit that has some, but they charge more than > the loco is worth. > 7 & 8, got any data like country of origin? > Shot of the top of the chassis might help. > > Dave > > > > > I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am working > on > > and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by AHM > but > > they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, Life- > Like > > as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO and a > few > > that has AHM/Rivarossi. > > > > Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made > them ? One > > of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the > older > > kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. > > > > Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch... > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3408	From: donvdh	Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded

If they're mid 70's or later Bachmann produces the Lionel steamers. The mechanical parts interchange fairly easily. On Golf Manor Hobbies: Gulf Manor Hobbies address is; Gulf Manor Hobbies 2235 Losantiville Ave. Cincinnati, Ohio 45237-4222 513-351-3849 The best time to call them is between 1:00 PM and 3 PM Ohio time, and ask for Ray, who is the repairman, and is a nice guy and very helpful.     ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Photos Uploaded Speaking of Lionel parts, I have 2 Lionel GS4's that need new driver sets. They both have drivers that are broken off of their axles. curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: I think it's called Manor Hobbies. They have Rivarossi parts, and the forums tend to indicate they are extremely proud of them. But, they have them. I have Lionel parts, too, but not much AHM/Rivarossi. > > Dave - Don Vander horn here. I have a lot of Lionel pieces. Could you give me the name of the people with the gold-plated parts? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:34 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos Uploaded > > > I just rebuilt a bunch of those. > The first one, the Athearn F-7A, you need to get the motor in the > chassis right. > It's down by the nose, throwing the driveshafts out of line. > The second photo is a pancake-motored Bachmann. > If it runs, good, and when it quits makes a good non-powered > dummy "A". > Third and fourth, bets are "made in Yugoslavia", once again, when it > quits...... > I've had housings split, sideframes fall off, gears spit teeth, > armatures smoke. > No parts. > Photos five and six, had a chassis like that in here, almost looks > Lionel, but AHM/Rivarossi springs to mind (and they probably made > them for Lionel). > No parts. > Well, there is one outfit that has some, but they charge more than > the loco is worth. > 7 & 8, got any data like country of origin? > Shot of the top of the chassis might help. > > Dave > > > > > I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am working > on > > and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by AHM > but > > they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, Life- > Like > > as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO and a > few > > that has AHM/Rivarossi. > > > > Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made > them ? One > > of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the > older > > kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. > > > > Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch... > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3409	From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded & Locomotive INFO Update

Hi to the Group. I just found out that the RS-11 was made by Life Like and I can find the Kadee couplers for it, as well as to the AHM ALCO424's that I have on hand.  Yes, I do have the Kadee Coupler Height gaute jig as well as a good long test track on the workbench.   I soon will be adding new updated images to my photo folder and will fix any of the errors on the photos...   Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3410	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded

Wobbly! Pancake motors? Are they going to actually run when you get drivers? E-mail me. Dave > > Speaking of Lionel parts, I have 2 Lionel GS4's that need new driver sets. They both have drivers that are broken off of their axles. > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: I think it's called Manor Hobbies. > They have Rivarossi parts, and the forums tend to indicate they are > extremely proud of them. > But, they have them. > > I have Lionel parts, too, but not much AHM/Rivarossi. > > > > Dave - Don Vander horn here. I have a lot of Lionel pieces. Could > you give me the name of the people with the gold-plated parts? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:34 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos Uploaded > > > > > > I just rebuilt a bunch of those. > > The first one, the Athearn F-7A, you need to get the motor in > the > > chassis right. > > It's down by the nose, throwing the driveshafts out of line. > > The second photo is a pancake-motored Bachmann. > > If it runs, good, and when it quits makes a good non-powered > > dummy "A". > > Third and fourth, bets are "made in Yugoslavia", once again, > when it > > quits...... > > I've had housings split, sideframes fall off, gears spit teeth, > > armatures smoke. > > No parts. > > Photos five and six, had a chassis like that in here, almost > looks > > Lionel, but AHM/Rivarossi springs to mind (and they probably > made > > them for Lionel). > > No parts. > > Well, there is one outfit that has some, but they charge more > than > > the loco is worth. > > 7 & 8, got any data like country of origin? > > Shot of the top of the chassis might help. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > I just uploaded some photos of some locomotives that I am > working > > on > > > and trying to put Kadee Couplers on. I think some were made by > AHM > > but > > > they have no brand name on then. I do see that I have TYCO, > Life- > > Like > > > as wellas some Bachmann, plus I do have a few that say ROCO > and a > > few > > > that has AHM/Rivarossi. > > > > > > Can you tell me what the Unknow Locomotives are and who made > > them ? One > > > of the F7A's don't yet have Kadee's on it, but is showing the > > older > > > kind of couplers that most of the HO trains have on them. > > > > > > Yours Tryly, Maryann Obuch... > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3411	From: rcjge	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Hi-F GP-7/9

Hi Guys: Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3412	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Roughly late 1950's, early '60s. I got my first one Christmas 1959, by 1962 or so Hobby shops were closing them out at 3 or 4 bucks apiece. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <rcjge@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 12:16 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hi-F GP-7/9 > Hi Guys: > > Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the > Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does > anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? > > Thanks, > Gareth > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3413	From: donvdh	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Hi-Fi drive - Athearn made up until around the late 50's\early 60's. The diesels they made for Lionel were also Hi-Fi until around then. Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3414	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

They were 50's, the Dual-Geared Geep was 57, by 63 or so the tower- drive geared units were coming into use. They still made RDC's in Hi-F for a LONG time! Appliance bands work.... Dave > > Hi Guys: > > Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the > Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does > anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3415	From: donvdh	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Lionel\ Hi-fi

Attachments : I forgot to add that the F7A geared chassis by Athearn will retrofit into the Hi-Fi shells with just minor modification to the body stops on the chassis and the stud slot at the middle of the shell. Athearn made almost all the others except those by AHM\Rivarossi. I don't know if the other model chassis will fit into the older  shells. never tried. Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3416	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi

What modifications? I swap shells between with no modifications. I suspect the early early ones with the tall motor may have been different, but all the F shells swap easily between them all. > > BlankI forgot to add that the F7A geared chassis by Athearn will retrofit into the Hi-Fi shells with just minor modification to the body stops on the chassis and the stud slot at the middle of the shell. Athearn made almost all the others except those by AHM\Rivarossi. I don't know if the other model chassis will fit into the older shells. never tried. Don V >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3417	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

early 1960's ----- Original Message ----- From: rcjge To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:16 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Hi-F GP-7/9 Hi Guys: Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3418	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

I am of the understanding that the early gear drives and the HiF drives were produced simultaneously I believe HiF was cheaper to buy new.   And yes, RDC's as well as Hustler's remained HiF until the end. At the same time Athearn made Lionel Husky's with gear drive, it also received a different shell.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: They were 50's, the Dual-Geared Geep was 57, by 63 or so the tower- drive geared units were coming into use. They still made RDC's in Hi-F for a LONG time! Appliance bands work.... Dave > > Hi Guys: > > Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the > Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does > anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? > > Thanks, > Gareth > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3419	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi

The only problem with the early shells is you need to cut away some of the hose & MU cable detail on the end(s) to clear the coupler pockets on the newer frames. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi > What modifications? > I swap shells between with no modifications. > I suspect the early early ones with the tall motor may have been > different, but all the F shells swap easily between them all. > >> >> BlankI forgot to add that the F7A geared chassis by Athearn will > retrofit into the Hi-Fi shells with just minor modification to the > body stops on the chassis and the stud slot at the middle of the > shell. Athearn made almost all the others except those by > AHM\Rivarossi. I don't know if the other model chassis will fit into > the older shells. never tried. Don V >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3420	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi

Yes, That is correct... I tought that is what don was saying, but I was not sure... I think the GP7s are the same way... The pockets needed to be widened.. Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: The only problem with the early shells is you need to cut away some of the hose & MU cable detail on the end(s) to clear the coupler pockets on the newer frames. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi > What modifications? > I swap shells between with no modifications. > I suspect the early early ones with the tall motor may have been > different, but all the F shells swap easily between them all. > >> >> BlankI forgot to add that the F7A geared chassis by Athearn will > retrofit into the Hi-Fi shells with just minor modification to the > body stops on the chassis and the stud slot at the middle of the > shell. Athearn made almost all the others except those by > AHM\Rivarossi. I don't know if the other model chassis will fit into > the older shells. never tried. Don V >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3421	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

I have several examples of the Hustler and the Husky. I believe the shells of both have always been interchangeable. The Husky changed little during its production. The Hustler had several "improvements" over its very long life that attempted to keep the rubberbands on the shaft. In my opinon the original Hustler setup worked as well as all the other modifications made. As an aside, I'm pretty sure the Husky never was made with Hi-F drive - it was always gear driven. The gear ratio was so high that it ran at about the same supersonic speed as the Hustler did. Both of them were fine racers and very inexpensive (the original Hustler was only $4.95, the Husky was more but not by much. There also was a die cast box cab body made by Cary Locomotive works that vastly improve the pulling power of the Hustler and the Husky. Another mfg.(Earnst) also made a fine gear driven modification that improved the low speed operation of the units. It was somewhat painful to install but the results were worth the effort needed. Then again, it is a treat to see both the Cary cab an the Earnst gearing in the same unit for really impressive performance. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > > I am of the understanding that the early gear drives and the HiF drives were produced simultaneously I believe HiF was cheaper to buy new. > > And yes, RDC's as well as Hustler's remained HiF until the end. At the same time Athearn made Lionel Husky's with gear drive, it also received a different shell. > > Wobbly913 > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > They were 50's, the Dual-Geared Geep was 57, by 63 or so the tower- > drive geared units were coming into use. > They still made RDC's in Hi-F for a LONG time! > Appliance bands work.... > Dave > > > > > Hi Guys: > > > > Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the > > Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does > > anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? > > > > Thanks, > > Gareth > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3422	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

I agree with Joe's comments on the Hustler. A big problem for me was that, with only two axles picking up power, it would stall on marginal track work and some switches. I ended up making a "cow & calf" using on Hustler converted to Ernst drive and the other just a dummy. The "calf" actually was powered, and I intend to build an interior for the cab of the "cow" some day. I ran wires between the two permanently coupled units for better pickup. Mike oljoeoh wrote: > > > I have several examples of the Hustler and the Husky. I believe > the shells of both have always been interchangeable. The Husky > changed little during its production. The Hustler had several > "improvements" over its very long life that attempted to > keep the rubberbands on the shaft. In my opinon the > original Hustler setup worked as well as all the other > modifications made. > As an aside, I'm pretty sure the Husky never was made with > Hi-F drive - it was always gear driven. The gear ratio > was so high that it ran at about the same supersonic speed > as the Hustler did. Both of them were fine racers and very > inexpensive (the original Hustler was only $4.95, the Husky > was more but not by much. > There also was a die cast box cab body made by Cary Locomotive > works that vastly improve the pulling power of the Hustler > and the Husky. > Another mfg.(Earnst) also made a fine gear driven modification > that improved the low speed operation of the units. It was > somewhat painful to install but the results were worth the > effort needed. Then again, it is a treat to see both the > Cary cab an the Earnst gearing in the same unit for really > impressive performance. > Joe O'Loughlin >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3423	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Hey Joe, I have a handfull of Hustlers... I have one of the Cary Boxcab diesel shells and I have at least one un-opened example of a super-gear kit for the hustler. I have never heard of the Husky... Does anyone have a picture? Is it Athearn? Sean oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: I have several examples of the Hustler and the Husky. I believe the shells of both have always been interchangeable. The Husky changed little during its production. The Hustler had several "improvements" over its very long life that attempted to keep the rubberbands on the shaft. In my opinon the original Hustler setup worked as well as all the other modifications made. As an aside, I'm pretty sure the Husky never was made with Hi-F drive - it was always gear driven. The gear ratio was so high that it ran at about the same supersonic speed as the Hustler did. Both of them were fine racers and very inexpensive (the original Hustler was only $4.95, the Husky was more but not by much. There also was a die cast box cab body made by Cary Locomotive works that vastly improve the pulling power of the Hustler and the Husky. Another mfg.(Earnst) also made a fine gear driven modification that improved the low speed operation of the units. It was somewhat painful to install but the results were worth the effort needed. Then again, it is a treat to see both the Cary cab an the Earnst gearing in the same unit for really impressive performance. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@. ..> wrote: > > I am of the understanding that the early gear drives and the HiF drives were produced simultaneously I believe HiF was cheaper to buy new. > > And yes, RDC's as well as Hustler's remained HiF until the end. At the same time Athearn made Lionel Husky's with gear drive, it also received a different shell. > > Wobbly913 > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > They were 50's, the Dual-Geared Geep was 57, by 63 or so the tower- > drive geared units were coming into use. > They still made RDC's in Hi-F for a LONG time! > Appliance bands work.... > Dave > > > > > Hi Guys: > > > > Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the > > Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does > > anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? > > > > Thanks, > > Gareth > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3424	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Sean, The Husky was made for Lionel by Athearn. If you ever saw a Husky and a Hustler sitting side by side you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Only by removing the cab, or, looking on the underside (where you can see the gears on the Husky) is the only place where you can visually identify the Husky. A normal picture of the Husky offers no visual cues about who made the critters (well I guess if you know enough about the various paint schemes you could make a decent guess about what the brand name was). The Husky appears regularly on Ebay at prices that are equivalent fo the Hustler. I've also seen them at local meets. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Joe, > I have a handfull of Hustlers... I have one of the Cary Boxcab diesel shells and I have at least one un-opened example of a super-gear kit for the hustler. I have never heard of the Husky... Does anyone have a picture? Is it Athearn? > Sean > > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: > I have several examples of the Hustler and the Husky. I believe > the shells of both have always been interchangeable. The Husky > changed little during its production. The Hustler had several > "improvements" over its very long life that attempted to > keep the rubberbands on the shaft. In my opinon the > original Hustler setup worked as well as all the other > modifications made. > As an aside, I'm pretty sure the Husky never was made with > Hi-F drive - it was always gear driven. The gear ratio > was so high that it ran at about the same supersonic speed > as the Hustler did. Both of them were fine racers and very > inexpensive (the original Hustler was only $4.95, the Husky > was more but not by much. > There also was a die cast box cab body made by Cary Locomotive > works that vastly improve the pulling power of the Hustler > and the Husky. > Another mfg.(Earnst) also made a fine gear driven modification > that improved the low speed operation of the units. It was > somewhat painful to install but the results were worth the > effort needed. Then again, it is a treat to see both the > Cary cab an the Earnst gearing in the same unit for really > impressive performance. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@> wrote: > > > > I am of the understanding that the early gear drives and the HiF > drives were produced simultaneously I believe HiF was cheaper to buy new. > > > > And yes, RDC's as well as Hustler's remained HiF until the end. At > the same time Athearn made Lionel Husky's with gear drive, it also > received a different shell. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > > They were 50's, the Dual-Geared Geep was 57, by 63 or so the tower- > > drive geared units were coming into use. > > They still made RDC's in Hi-F for a LONG time! > > Appliance bands work.... > > Dave > > > > > > > > Hi Guys: > > > > > > Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the > > > Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does > > > anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3425	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee couplers

I have one of these and have had no luck trying to mount a Kaydee coupler in the coupler box. The problem is the mounting screw(s) for the Cary cab and the little coupler box cover that is needed to keep the coupler horizontal in the coupler box. It seems to be almost impossible to do what is needed. Comments please. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3426	From: donvdh	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the pillow block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black rubber bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber bands, but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one able to find one in their old parts inventory?  Don Van Der Horn     ----- Original Message ----- From: oljoeoh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:48 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 Sean, The Husky was made for Lionel by Athearn. If you ever saw a Husky and a Hustler sitting side by side you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Only by removing the cab, or, looking on the underside (where you can see the gears on the Husky) is the only place where you can visually identify the Husky. A normal picture of the Husky offers no visual cues about who made the critters (well I guess if you know enough about the various paint schemes you could make a decent guess about what the brand name was). The Husky appears regularly on Ebay at prices that are equivalent fo the Hustler. I've also seen them at local meets. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey Joe, > I have a handfull of Hustlers... I have one of the Cary Boxcab diesel shells and I have at least one un-opened example of a super-gear kit for the hustler. I have never heard of the Husky... Does anyone have a picture? Is it Athearn? > Sean > > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: > I have several examples of the Hustler and the Husky. I believe > the shells of both have always been interchangeable. The Husky > changed little during its production. The Hustler had several > "improvements" over its very long life that attempted to > keep the rubberbands on the shaft. In my opinon the > original Hustler setup worked as well as all the other > modifications made. > As an aside, I'm pretty sure the Husky never was made with > Hi-F drive - it was always gear driven. The gear ratio > was so high that it ran at about the same supersonic speed > as the Hustler did. Both of them were fine racers and very > inexpensive (the original Hustler was only $4.95, the Husky > was more but not by much. > There also was a die cast box cab body made by Cary Locomotive > works that vastly improve the pulling power of the Hustler > and the Husky. > Another mfg.(Earnst) also made a fine gear driven modification > that improved the low speed operation of the units. It was > somewhat painful to install but the results were worth the > effort needed. Then again, it is a treat to see both the > Cary cab an the Earnst gearing in the same unit for really > impressive performance. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@> wrote: > > > > I am of the understanding that the early gear drives and the HiF > drives were produced simultaneously I believe HiF was cheaper to buy new. > > > > And yes, RDC's as well as Hustler's remained HiF until the end. At > the same time Athearn made Lionel Husky's with gear drive, it also > received a different shell. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ > wrote: > > They were 50's, the Dual-Geared Geep was 57, by 63 or so the tower- > > drive geared units were coming into use. > > They still made RDC's in Hi-F for a LONG time! > > Appliance bands work.... > > Dave > > > > > > > > Hi Guys: > > > > > > Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the > > > Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does > > > anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3427	From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: I Have The Following Parts Forsale

I have the following AHM/Riverside steam locomotive parts forsale: The parts came from an old 2-8-0 or 4-8-0 or some thing with: "? -4-?": Motor. Has a gear at the end of the shift. Motor runs OK, was pointing down inside the frame. Lower Frame: The frame in which the motor was mounted. Axle Cover: The cover that came off the lower frame. Wheel with drive gear: The drive wheel with a good brass gear looks to be good. 3 Wheels that make up the drivers for an X-4-X setup. Side Rods: The side rods, which came off this locomotive. Comes with any mounting screws if they are with the side rods. Locomotive Top Shell: See the image of what this looks like. Being sold as it is. A small screw that I think was holding the cab to the frame for I am unsure of where this small screw was used.   Item #1 $5 with $3 Shipping: $8.00 Item #2 $2 with $3 Shipping: $5.00 Item #3 $1 with $3 Shipping: $4.00 Item #4 $5 with $3 Shipping: $8.00 Item #5 $3 with $3 Shipping: $6.00 Item #6 $4 with $3 Shipping: $7.00 Item #7 $1 with $3 Shipping: $4.00 Item #8 $1 with $3 Shipping: $4.00 I have found some new parts for Atearn's railcars & locomotives that I an going to offer forsale and here is what I have on hand: 16002 Ice Hatch (3) $0.50 12504 Ladders (2) $0.50 53002 A End for ACF Hopper (2) $0.50 53003 B End for ACF Hopper (3) $0.50 40005 Worm Coupler (2) $0.50 11015 F7 Headlight Lens (6) $1.00 42007 Worm Housing (2) $1.00 900099 Spine Coupler (2) $1.00 400022 Worm Coupler (2) $1.00 40020 Worn Gear & Shaft (1) $1.00 The Shipping is only $3 so if your needing more than one part just pay the asking prince. I will take money orders or cashiers checks for each item. I do have the following forsale: 3 Volt bulbs wire leads (10 bulbs) $2 W/shipping. Old NMRA couplers: Has a med size hold in the bar. Each are $0.05 each for I have around 25+ Truck Pens: I have some small black push pins 2 for $0.25, 6 for $1 (I only have several sets) Trucks that are like TYCO that you push into the railcar body. 2 for $1 Trucks that have a longer coupler, Life Like brand for I am unsure of the maker. 2 for $1 Custom made turnouts made by hand: I custom make #4, 6 or #4 wye for $20 in cold 100, 83 or smaller. This item is by special order only. Contact Maryann Obuch (1308 N 4th St, Sayre, Ok 73662) Phone 580-9283798 We take money orders as well as Paypal for payments ~ Maobuch@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3428	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

There is also a third version of the Hustler that was a COX item. The shell appears the same as a typical Athearn, I think it may even have the same number... but the drive, a gear type... is exclusive to COX. The shell shell sits a bit higher on this piece, which makes it sort of easy to spot. I don't have one, but a freind of mine picked one up at a show last year. People sometimes list them on ebay as Athearn Hustlers, I'll see if I can get a picture of one. Stephen   AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3429	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Drive shaft assembly? It was nothing more than a length of metal rod about the size of the hole in the "tower" and a hunk of rubber tubing for a coupling. You could use almost anything that would fit and be turned by the motor. I suppose you could say that the Hi-F drive was the ultimate KISS application ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") Mike donvdh wrote: > > > I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the pillow > block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black rubber > bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber bands, > but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one able to > find one in their old parts inventory? Don Van Der Horn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3430	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Joe Actually the Husky shell is some different than the Hustler shell, they were also available in other paint schemes than Hustlers.  The most noticeable difference is that the headlight on the Hustler appears to sit on top of the hood.  On the Husky the headlight appears to sit within the end and does not project above the hood. The details on the top of the hood are also different.   wobbly913 oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: Sean, The Husky was made for Lionel by Athearn. If you ever saw a Husky and a Hustler sitting side by side you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Only by removing the cab, or, looking on the underside (where you can see the gears on the Husky) is the only place where you can visually identify the Husky. A normal picture of the Husky offers no visual cues about who made the critters (well I guess if you know enough about the various paint schemes you could make a decent guess about what the brand name was). The Husky appears regularly on Ebay at prices that are equivalent fo the Hustler. I've also seen them at local meets. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor wrote: > > Hey Joe, > I have a handfull of Hustlers... I have one of the Cary Boxcab diesel shells and I have at least one un-opened example of a super-gear kit for the hustler. I have never heard of the Husky... Does anyone have a picture? Is it Athearn? > Sean > > oljoeoh wrote: > I have several examples of the Hustler and the Husky. I believe > the shells of both have always been interchangeable. The Husky > changed little during its production. The Hustler had several > "improvements" over its very long life that attempted to > keep the rubberbands on the shaft. In my opinon the > original Hustler setup worked as well as all the other > modifications made. > As an aside, I'm pretty sure the Husky never was made with > Hi-F drive - it was always gear driven. The gear ratio > was so high that it ran at about the same supersonic speed > as the Hustler did. Both of them were fine racers and very > inexpensive (the original Hustler was only $4.95, the Husky > was more but not by much. > There also was a die cast box cab body made by Cary Locomotive > works that vastly improve the pulling power of the Hustler > and the Husky. > Another mfg.(Earnst) also made a fine gear driven modification > that improved the low speed operation of the units. It was > somewhat painful to install but the results were worth the > effort needed. Then again, it is a treat to see both the > Cary cab an the Earnst gearing in the same unit for really > impressive performance. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 wrote: > > > > I am of the understanding that the early gear drives and the HiF > drives were produced simultaneously I believe HiF was cheaper to buy new. > > > > And yes, RDC's as well as Hustler's remained HiF until the end. At > the same time Athearn made Lionel Husky's with gear drive, it also > received a different shell. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > curmudgeon wrote: > > They were 50's, the Dual-Geared Geep was 57, by 63 or so the tower- > > drive geared units were coming into use. > > They still made RDC's in Hi-F for a LONG time! > > Appliance bands work.... > > Dave > > > > > > > > Hi Guys: > > > > > > Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the > > > Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does > > > anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3431	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Actually the rod has two different diameters.  On the end that attaches to the motor the shaft has a small step up that enlarges its diameter to the same size as the motor shaft. Without that step the rubber tube coupling won't be tight enough to drive the rubber bands.   Wobbly913 Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: Drive shaft assembly? It was nothing more than a length of metal rod about the size of the hole in the "tower" and a hunk of rubber tubing for a coupling. You could use almost anything that would fit and be turned by the motor. I suppose you could say that the Hi-F drive was the ultimate KISS application ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") Mike donvdh wrote: > > > I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the pillow > block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black rubber > bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber bands, > but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one able to > find one in their old parts inventory? Don Van Der Horn Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3432	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Get a piece of rod the same diameter as the motor shaft, then ream out the support shaft to fit, there should be enough metal there.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 Actually the rod has two different diameters.  On the end that attaches to the motor the shaft has a small step up that enlarges its diameter to the same size as the motor shaft. Without that step the rubber tube coupling won't be tight enough to drive the rubber bands.   Wobbly913 Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: Drive shaft assembly? It was nothing more than a length of metal rod about the size of the hole in the "tower" and a hunk of rubber tubing for a coupling. You could use almost anything that would fit and be turned by the motor. I suppose you could say that the Hi-F drive was the ultimate KISS application ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") Mike donvdh wrote: > > > I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the pillow > block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black rubber > bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber bands, > but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one able to > find one in their old parts inventory? Don Van Der Horn Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3433	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Yeah. Smallest shaft size they could do to keep the speed down to Warp Factor Two, required the "step-up" at the motor end. You could go to motor shaft size, drill out the bearing block, but you'd have to do both ends and then the speed wouldn't match any others. Somebody has a spare one, I'm sure. Funny, I have seen Athearn instruction sheets showing a standard u- joint assembly in between motor and driveshaft, but how would you fit it in there? Dave > > Drive shaft assembly? It was nothing more than a length of metal rod > about the size of the hole in the "tower" and a hunk of rubber tubing > for a coupling. You could use almost anything that would fit and be > turned by the motor. > > I suppose you could say that the Hi-F drive was the ultimate KISS > application ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") > > Mike > > donvdh wrote: > > > > > > I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the pillow > > block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black rubber > > bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber bands, > > but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one able to > > find one in their old parts inventory? Don Van Der Horn >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3434	From: Wobbly913	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

The U joint shaft is found mostly in the later (1996?) runs of RDC's which also use a later style of motor. It makes for a much more positive drive than the rubber tube and doesn't loosen up or come apart. Also the outboard support has a slot instead of just a hole so the shaft comes out readily to change rubber bands.   Wobbly913   curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Yeah. Smallest shaft size they could do to keep the speed down to Warp Factor Two, required the "step-up" at the motor end. You could go to motor shaft size, drill out the bearing block, but you'd have to do both ends and then the speed wouldn't match any others. Somebody has a spare one, I'm sure. Funny, I have seen Athearn instruction sheets showing a standard u- joint assembly in between motor and driveshaft, but how would you fit it in there? Dave > > Drive shaft assembly? It was nothing more than a length of metal rod > about the size of the hole in the "tower" and a hunk of rubber tubing > for a coupling. You could use almost anything that would fit and be > turned by the motor. > > I suppose you could say that the Hi-F drive was the ultimate KISS > application ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") > > Mike > > donvdh wrote: > > > > > > I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the pillow > > block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black rubber > > bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber bands, > > but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one able to > > find one in their old parts inventory? Don Van Der Horn > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3435	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

I have both an F unit and a GP unit that are Hi F drives that have the U Joint and the slotted post. It makes changing the bands a lot easier and I'd bet that these were produced late in the production of the original Hi F offerings. The posts are cast right into the frame, and are quite noticably different than the earlier ones. As well as the shaft with the step, I have come across shafts that have pressed ends, flattened to match the diameter of the motor shaft. For a replacement rubber tube, I have used RC Plane small neoprene fuel line tubing. It's cheap, and works well, and it comes in a roll of like, a foot or so... available wherever RC  (sort of the arch enemy of Model RailRoading) products are sold.     -----Original Message----- From: wobbly913@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 The U joint shaft is found mostly in the later (1996?) runs of RDC's which also use a later style of motor. It makes for a much more positive drive than the rubber tube and doesn't loosen up or come apart. Also the outboard support has a slot instead of just a hole so the shaft comes out readily to change rubber bands.   Wobbly913   curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Yeah. Smallest shaft size they could do to keep the speed down to Warp Factor Two, required the "step-up" at the motor end. You could go to motor shaft size, drill out the bearing block, but you'd have to do both ends and then the speed wouldn't match any others. Somebody has a spare one, I'm sure. Funny, I have seen Athearn instruction sheets showing a standard u- joint assembly in between motor and driveshaft, but how would you fit it in there? Dave > > Drive shaft assembly? It was nothing more than a length of metal rod > about the size of the hole in the "tower" and a hunk of rubber tubing > for a coupling. You could use almost anything that would fit and be > turned by the motor. > > I suppose you could say that the Hi-F drive was the ultimate KISS > application ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") > > Mike > > donvdh wrote: > > > > > > I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the pillow > > block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black rubber > > bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber bands, > > but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one able to > > find one in their old parts inventory? Don Van Der Horn > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3436	From: Larry	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Hello Don I have a few extra drive shafts for these HIFI engines in my parts bin. Please, Contact me off list about them. Larry http://www.hoseeker.net/ --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the pillow block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black rubber bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber bands, but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one able to find one in their old parts inventory? Don Van Der Horn > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3437	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee cou

Joe, Did you try a 30 series Kadee and try it with out the box?  I am not familiar with this Cary cab, but I have had to try some odd things for the older models to work.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO @yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO @yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of oljoeoh Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:58 AM To: vintageHO @yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [ vintageHO ] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee couplers   I have one of these and have had no luck trying to mount a Kaydee coupler in the coupler box. The problem is the mounting screw(s) for the Cary cab and the little coupler box cover that is needed to keep the coupler horizontal in the coupler box. It seems to be almost impossible to do what is needed. Comments please. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3438	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Back in the 1980's there were some activities in Pacific Northwest Region, NMRA.  It started with an adaptation of the Cub Scouts "Pinewood Derby" races--using HO boxcars to the coasting races.  They Then they got into"Hustler" races.  I'm not certain of the events, but they had "stock" and "Modified" classes.    The NMRA National in Eugene was approaching--I suggested that this might be a fun event--perhaps Athearn could get a run of Hustlers out---but they decided not to.  I could just visualize the speeds possible by reversing the diameters of the drive drums. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Sloane To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 I agree with Joe's comments on the Hustler. A big problem for me was that, with only two axles picking up power, it would stall on marginal track work and some switches. I ended up making a "cow & calf" using on Hustler converted to Ernst drive and the other just a dummy. The "calf" actually was powered, and I intend to build an interior for the cab of the "cow" some day. I ran wires between the two permanently coupled units for better pickup. Mike oljoeoh wrote: > > > I have several examples of the Hustler and the Husky. I believe > the shells of both have always been interchangeable. The Husky > changed little during its production. The Hustler had several > "improvements" over its very long life that attempted to > keep the rubberbands on the shaft. In my opinon the > original Hustler setup worked as well as all the other > modifications made. > As an aside, I'm pretty sure the Husky never was made with > Hi-F drive - it was always gear driven. The gear ratio > was so high that it ran at about the same supersonic speed > as the Hustler did. Both of them were fine racers and very > inexpensive (the original Hustler was only $4.95, the Husky > was more but not by much. > There also was a die cast box cab body made by Cary Locomotive > works that vastly improve the pulling power of the Hustler > and the Husky. > Another mfg.(Earnst) also made a fine gear driven modification > that improved the low speed operation of the units. It was > somewhat painful to install but the results were worth the > effort needed. Then again, it is a treat to see both the > Cary cab an the Earnst gearing in the same unit for really > impressive performance. > Joe O'Loughlin >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3439	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Next time in a full-service hobby shop--go over to the R/C airplane section--they usually have a selection of steel rods--I think 3/32" should do it--cut with a disc in a Dremel.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the pillow block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black rubber bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber bands, but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one able to find one in their old parts inventory?  Don Van Der Horn     ----- Original Message ----- From: oljoeoh To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:48 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 Sean, The Husky was made for Lionel by Athearn. If you ever saw a Husky and a Hustler sitting side by side you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Only by removing the cab, or, looking on the underside (where you can see the gears on the Husky) is the only place where you can visually identify the Husky. A normal picture of the Husky offers no visual cues about who made the critters (well I guess if you know enough about the various paint schemes you could make a decent guess about what the brand name was). The Husky appears regularly on Ebay at prices that are equivalent fo the Hustler. I've also seen them at local meets. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hey Joe, > I have a handfull of Hustlers... I have one of the Cary Boxcab diesel shells and I have at least one un-opened example of a super-gear kit for the hustler. I have never heard of the Husky... Does anyone have a picture? Is it Athearn? > Sean > > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: > I have several examples of the Hustler and the Husky. I believe > the shells of both have always been interchangeable. The Husky > changed little during its production. The Hustler had several > "improvements" over its very long life that attempted to > keep the rubberbands on the shaft. In my opinon the > original Hustler setup worked as well as all the other > modifications made. > As an aside, I'm pretty sure the Husky never was made with > Hi-F drive - it was always gear driven. The gear ratio > was so high that it ran at about the same supersonic speed > as the Hustler did. Both of them were fine racers and very > inexpensive (the original Hustler was only $4.95, the Husky > was more but not by much. > There also was a die cast box cab body made by Cary Locomotive > works that vastly improve the pulling power of the Hustler > and the Husky. > Another mfg.(Earnst) also made a fine gear driven modification > that improved the low speed operation of the units. It was > somewhat painful to install but the results were worth the > effort needed. Then again, it is a treat to see both the > Cary cab an the Earnst gearing in the same unit for really > impressive performance. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@> wrote: > > > > I am of the understanding that the early gear drives and the HiF > drives were produced simultaneously I believe HiF was cheaper to buy new. > > > > And yes, RDC's as well as Hustler's remained HiF until the end. At > the same time Athearn made Lionel Husky's with gear drive, it also > received a different shell. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ > wrote: > > They were 50's, the Dual-Geared Geep was 57, by 63 or so the tower- > > drive geared units were coming into use. > > They still made RDC's in Hi-F for a LONG time! > > Appliance bands work.... > > Dave > > > > > > > > Hi Guys: > > > > > > Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the > > > Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does > > > anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3440	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

I think that the Cox had an F3 truck for a drive--sort of like  a Varney.  Back in the 80's they were popular with On3'ers for conversion to that size--the Lionels were better due to the longer wheelbase. ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 There is also a third version of the Hustler that was a COX item. The shell appears the same as a typical Athearn, I think it may even have the same number... but the drive, a gear type... is exclusive to COX. The shell shell sits a bit higher on this piece, which makes it sort of easy to spot. I don't have one, but a freind of mine picked one up at a show last year. People sometimes list them on ebay as Athearn Hustlers, I'll see if I can get a picture of one. Stephen   AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3441	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 10:21 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 > Yeah. Smallest shaft size they could do to keep the speed down to > Warp Factor Two, required the "step-up" at the motor end. > You could go to motor shaft size, drill out the bearing block, but > you'd have to do both ends and then the speed wouldn't match any > others. > Somebody has a spare one, I'm sure. > Funny, I have seen Athearn instruction sheets showing a standard u- > joint assembly in between motor and driveshaft, but how would you > fit it in there? > Dave My RDC is set up that way. Of course it's much longer than an F or Geep. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3442	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

a short piece of 1/8" brass tube on the 3/32" shaft will do it.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 Yeah. Smallest shaft size they could do to keep the speed down to Warp Factor Two, required the "step-up" at the motor end. You could go to motor shaft size, drill out the bearing block, but you'd have to do both ends and then the speed wouldn't match any others. Somebody has a spare one, I'm sure. Funny, I have seen Athearn instruction sheets showing a standard u- joint assembly in between motor and driveshaft, but how would you fit it in there? Dave > > Drive shaft assembly? It was nothing more than a length of metal rod > about the size of the hole in the "tower" and a hunk of rubber tubing > for a coupling. You could use almost anything that would fit and be > turned by the motor. > > I suppose you could say that the Hi-F drive was the ultimate KISS > application ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") > > Mike > > donvdh wrote: > > > > > > I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the pillow > > block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black rubber > > bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber bands, > > but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one able to > > find one in their old parts inventory? Don Van Der Horn >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3443	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

yeah, but.....don't use brass for the shaft. Too soft. BTDT. Dave > > a short piece of 1/8" brass tube on the 3/32" shaft will do it. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 9:21 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 > > > Yeah. Smallest shaft size they could do to keep the speed down to > Warp Factor Two, required the "step-up" at the motor end. > You could go to motor shaft size, drill out the bearing block, but > you'd have to do both ends and then the speed wouldn't match any > others. > Somebody has a spare one, I'm sure. > Funny, I have seen Athearn instruction sheets showing a standard u- > joint assembly in between motor and driveshaft, but how would you > fit it in there? > Dave > > > > > Drive shaft assembly? It was nothing more than a length of metal > rod > > about the size of the hole in the "tower" and a hunk of rubber > tubing > > for a coupling. You could use almost anything that would fit and > be > > turned by the motor. > > > > I suppose you could say that the Hi-F drive was the ultimate KISS > > application ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") > > > > Mike > > > > donvdh wrote: > > > > > > > > > I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the > pillow > > > block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black > rubber > > > bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber > bands, > > > but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one > able to > > > find one in their old parts inventory? Don Van Der Horn > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3444	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

Now that you mention it, i think the grill openings are different on the lionel as well... Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: Joe Actually the Husky shell is some different than the Hustler shell, they were also available in other paint schemes than Hustlers.  The most noticeable difference is that the headlight on the Hustler appears to sit on top of the hood.  On the Husky the headlight appears to sit within the end and does not project above the hood. The details on the top of the hood are also different.   wobbly913 oljoeoh <oljoe@landolls. com> wrote: Sean, The Husky was made for Lionel by Athearn. If you ever saw a Husky and a Hustler sitting side by side you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Only by removing the cab, or, looking on the underside (where you can see the gears on the Husky) is the only place where you can visually identify the Husky. A normal picture of the Husky offers no visual cues about who made the critters (well I guess if you know enough about the various paint schemes you could make a decent guess about what the brand name was). The Husky appears regularly on Ebay at prices that are equivalent fo the Hustler. I've also seen them at local meets. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor wrote: > > Hey Joe, > I have a handfull of Hustlers... I have one of the Cary Boxcab diesel shells and I have at least one un-opened example of a super-gear kit for the hustler. I have never heard of the Husky... Does anyone have a picture? Is it Athearn? > Sean > > oljoeoh wrote: > I have several examples of the Hustler and the Husky. I believe > the shells of both have always been interchangeable. The Husky > changed little during its production. The Hustler had several > "improvements" over its very long life that attempted to > keep the rubberbands on the shaft. In my opinon the > original Hustler setup worked as well as all the other > modifications made. > As an aside, I'm pretty sure the Husky never was made with > Hi-F drive - it was always gear driven. The gear ratio > was so high that it ran at about the same supersonic speed > as the Hustler did. Both of them were fine racers and very > inexpensive (the original Hustler was only $4.95, the Husky > was more but not by much. > There also was a die cast box cab body made by Cary Locomotive > works that vastly improve the pulling power of the Hustler > and the Husky. > Another mfg.(Earnst) also made a fine gear driven modification > that improved the low speed operation of the units. It was > somewhat painful to install but the results were worth the > effort needed. Then again, it is a treat to see both the > Cary cab an the Earnst gearing in the same unit for really > impressive performance. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Wobbly913 wrote: > > > > I am of the understanding that the early gear drives and the HiF > drives were produced simultaneously I believe HiF was cheaper to buy new. > > > > And yes, RDC's as well as Hustler's remained HiF until the end. At > the same time Athearn made Lionel Husky's with gear drive, it also > received a different shell. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > curmudgeon wrote: > > They were 50's, the Dual-Geared Geep was 57, by 63 or so the tower- > > drive geared units were coming into use. > > They still made RDC's in Hi-F for a LONG time! > > Appliance bands work.... > > Dave > > > > > > > > Hi Guys: > > > > > > Can some one help me with some info. A young fella, as in 14 on the > > > Tyco Collectors Forum has aquired an old Hi-F Athearn GP-7/9. Does > > > anyone know when the Hi-F's were made by Athearn? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3445	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

It was the Marx version that had the F3 truck in it for power. Later Model Power had, and still has this piece, with a different drive.     -----Original Message----- From: glenn476@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 I think that the Cox had an F3 truck for a drive--sort of like  a Varney.  Back in the 80's they were popular with On3'ers for conversion to that size--the Lionels were better due to the longer wheelbase. ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@aol. com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 There is also a third version of the Hustler that was a COX item. The shell appears the same as a typical Athearn, I think it may even have the same number... but the drive, a gear type... is exclusive to COX. The shell shell sits a bit higher on this piece, which makes it sort of easy to spot. I don't have one, but a freind of mine picked one up at a show last year. People sometimes list them on ebay as Athearn Hustlers, I'll see if I can get a picture of one. Stephen   AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3446	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

While the Marx drive is somewhat similar, I don't know. I have one here, and it's a POS. The motor is attached with brass pieces that are bent-tab connected to the top of the gearbox, and bent over the ends of the motor to hold it in place. No screws, no disassembly. I had a plastic Varney F-3 A and dummy B here, looks like the Marx was a poor copy. I can post photos of the Marx. I am trying to fit a working motor (magnet was gone, and it's bad). The motor is a 3-pole, bearings are the entire end, looks like 3/16" thick oillite, overall distance between the pole lieces is at least 1/8" taller on this, so nothing else easily fits. Brass bend-over tabs are once or twice and they break. To access the gears, the bottom brass cover has 4 tabs that extend upwards and bend over in the top truck plate that has the vertical parts to hold the motor in. Not quite Varney by a long shot. Like I said, I have one right here in my lap while typing this. Dave : > > It was the Marx version that had the F3 truck in it for power. Later Model Power had, and still has this piece, with a different drive. > > -----Original Message----- > From: glenn476@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 > > I think that the Cox had an F3 truck for a drive--sort of like a Varney. Back in the 80's they were popular with On3'ers for conversion to that size--the Lionels were better due to the longer wheelbase. ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 > There is also a third version of the Hustler that was a COX item. The shell appears the same as a typical Athearn, I think it may even have the same number... but the drive, a gear type... is exclusive to COX. The shell shell sits a bit higher on this piece, which makes it sort of easy to spot. I don't have one, but a freind of mine picked one up at a show last year. People sometimes list them on ebay as Athearn Hustlers, I'll see if I can get a picture of one. Stephen > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > > _____________________________________________________________________ ___ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3447	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

I know, having worked on RDC's. The bands actually hit the short hose coupling on Geeps and F's, and I cannot imagine a u-joint assembly in there. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 10:21 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 > > > > Yeah. Smallest shaft size they could do to keep the speed down to > > Warp Factor Two, required the "step-up" at the motor end. > > You could go to motor shaft size, drill out the bearing block, but > > you'd have to do both ends and then the speed wouldn't match any > > others. > > Somebody has a spare one, I'm sure. > > Funny, I have seen Athearn instruction sheets showing a standard u- > > joint assembly in between motor and driveshaft, but how would you > > fit it in there? > > Dave > > My RDC is set up that way. Of course it's much longer than an F or Geep. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3448	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: LACONIA FLAT

Attachments : The latest eBay treasure, looks complete except brake wheel missing. Should be 95% authentic at any rate. Roger Aultman -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3449	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Re: LACONIA FLAT

Dear Roger,   I don't understand the web address you gave, but it does not connect to anything. What is the game plan here?   John Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: The latest eBay treasure, looks complete except brake wheel missing. Should be 95% authentic at any rate. Roger Aultman -- http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3450	From: donvdh	Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Hi-Fi drive front shaft

Attachments : Larry - My providers spam filters keep choking off my responses from this site. Would you please e-mail me directly at donvdh@...? The shaft is a 2-piece unit with the black rubber tube that slips over the engine shaft and a white nylon (?) shaft with upper pulley for the rubber band molded in. The front end of the shaft fits into a tall  tower pillow block type bracket which is a cast part of the chassis. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3451	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

the tube is just a bushing to raise the end of the shaft's size to the tube size needed for the motor shaft. Just a short piece soldered on CA'd to the steel shaft. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 7:54 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 yeah, but.....don' t use brass for the shaft. Too soft. BTDT. Dave > > a short piece of 1/8" brass tube on the 3/32" shaft will do it. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 9:21 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 > > > Yeah. Smallest shaft size they could do to keep the speed down to > Warp Factor Two, required the "step-up" at the motor end. > You could go to motor shaft size, drill out the bearing block, but > you'd have to do both ends and then the speed wouldn't match any > others. > Somebody has a spare one, I'm sure. > Funny, I have seen Athearn instruction sheets showing a standard u- > joint assembly in between motor and driveshaft, but how would you > fit it in there? > Dave > > > > > Drive shaft assembly? It was nothing more than a length of metal > rod > > about the size of the hole in the "tower" and a hunk of rubber > tubing > > for a coupling. You could use almost anything that would fit and > be > > turned by the motor. > > > > I suppose you could say that the Hi-F drive was the ultimate KISS > > application ("Keep It Simple, Stupid") > > > > Mike > > > > donvdh wrote: > > > > > > > > > I need a front drive shaft assembly from the motor shaft to the > pillow > > > block. Both pieces are missing and, of course, the little black > rubber > > > bands are not in attendance. I've got Athearn replacement rubber > bands, > > > but I'm stuck on finding the front driveshaft assembly. Any one > able to > > > find one in their old parts inventory? Don Van Der Horn > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3452	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9

ok--sounds right-- ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 It was the Marx version that had the F3 truck in it for power. Later Model Power had, and still has this piece, with a different drive.     -----Original Message----- From: glenn476@tco. net To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 I think that the Cox had an F3 truck for a drive--sort of like  a Varney.  Back in the 80's they were popular with On3'ers for conversion to that size--the Lionels were better due to the longer wheelbase. ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@aol. com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F GP-7/9 There is also a third version of the Hustler that was a COX item. The shell appears the same as a typical Athearn, I think it may even have the same number... but the drive, a gear type... is exclusive to COX. The shell shell sits a bit higher on this piece, which makes it sort of easy to spot. I don't have one, but a freind of mine picked one up at a show last year. People sometimes list them on ebay as Athearn Hustlers, I'll see if I can get a picture of one. Stephen   AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3453	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, cardboard. Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. On the left, car number is 5325. I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that were on the reefer came from. Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed cardboard door, road number 10094. Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. Any ideas? Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3454	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Hmmmmm.... I Know I have a brass Mantua reefer kit of a car with yellow card stock sides...  I have been meaning to list it, but have not yet done so. I have taken pictures of it. I do not remember the name on the sides, but it was yellow. The card sides are still on the celophane I took pictures... I will have to look whn I get home from work...   Did you have a chance to look at the pictures I sent you dave for the car ends?   Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, cardboard. Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. On the left, car number is 5325. I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that were on the reefer came from. Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed cardboard door, road number 10094. Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. Any ideas? Dave Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3455	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Yes, looked and responded to you yesterday. I need one plastic, two of one style and two of the other. Thanks! Dave > > Hmmmmm.... I Know I have a brass Mantua reefer kit of a car with yellow card stock sides... I have been meaning to list it, but have not yet done so. I have taken pictures of it. I do not remember the name on the sides, but it was yellow. The card sides are still on the celophane I took pictures... I will have to look whn I get home from work... > > Did you have a chance to look at the pictures I sent you dave for the car ends? > > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original > sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. > But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". > > These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, > cardboard. > Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. > On the left, car number is 5325. > I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature > determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. > > Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that > were on the reefer came from. > Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed > cardboard door, road number 10094. > > Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. > > Any ideas? > > Dave > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3456	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Hello Dave, I meant the next email after that... I wanted to be sure exactly which you need and in that email I Itold you how many I have of each... I have pasted it in the following...   Sean   >Dave, They are all metal... Photo 1 is exactly like the plastic ones as far as I can tell, but made of metal... I think I have only one pair... I have 3.5 pairs in plastic...   The ones in  photo 2... I have 2 pairs...   The ones in photo 5.. (no photos 3 or 4 because I deleted them before I sent them to you).. I have 2 pair...   Later! Sean > NWRCS <nwrcs@...> wrote: Is photo 1, the second one shown, the black one, the one plastic one I need? Rivets look right. How about one plastic Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3457	From: donvdh	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Lionel Texas Special Passenger set Plus Extra Equipment

Attachments : I am getting ready to list my Lionel Texas Special Passenger set Plus Extra Cars on eBay, but I thought I'd ask if anyone is interested to buy them here first. I have a complete set with a powered FA, dummy B, RPO, Coach, Dome, and Observation all very good to excellent in the original 1960 factory box\case and the 1960 operating booklet for it. I also have an additional 4 As, 3 Bs, 3 RPOs, 4 Coaches, 5 Domes, and 1 Observation. The original set is all in almost new condition individual boxes for the cars, fair boxes for the A\B engines. Some of the rest of the cars are in very good to like new boxes. one of the As, 1 RPO, and 1 Coach suffer from heavy use, 2 of the excellent bodied Domes have no trucks. The extra 4 As need rubber bands, which I have but haven't tried to install as yet. I also have what appear to Athearn repainted wannabes with what looks like decals of the IHC type, black script which doesn't match the original red by Lionel\Athearn. That comes to a total of 6 As, 4 Bs, 4 RPOs, 5 Coaches, 6 Domes, and 2 Observations. Pictures are available on request with a direct e-mail address. I don't know how or where to post them on this site. Don Van Der Horn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3458	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Can't help on the numbers--don't know if the ORER has private owner data.    as to the Mantua boxcar--the doors were to be glued onto a thin aluminum sheet that had little hooks (forerunner of the big claws on plastic cars) that served as door guides. Area of sides in doorway were to be cut out. ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Trying to discover car side manufacturer I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, cardboard. Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. On the left, car number is 5325. I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that were on the reefer came from. Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed cardboard door, road number 10094. Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. Any ideas? Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3459	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Attachments : OK, I looked at my car and I decided to scan a picture.... Is this simular to it? Sean Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: Can't help on the numbers--don' t know if the ORER has private owner data.    as to the Mantua boxcar--the doors were to be glued onto a thin aluminum sheet that had little hooks (forerunner of the big claws on plastic cars) that served as door guides. Area of sides in doorway were to be cut out. ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Trying to discover car side manufacturer I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, cardboard. Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. On the left, car number is 5325. I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that were on the reefer came from. Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed cardboard door, road number 10094. Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. Any ideas? Dave Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3460	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Glenn- Yeah, I'd believe that, looking at these sides. The guy took the "easy" way and just glued the doors onto the sides! Sean- I can't find any photo of the car. However, the end beam in the "Lindsay Switcher" album is the plastic one I need ONE of! Dave > > OK, > I looked at my car and I decided to scan a picture.... Is this simular to it? > Sean > > > Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: > Can't help on the numbers--don't know if the ORER has private owner data. > > as to the Mantua boxcar--the doors were to be glued onto a thin aluminum sheet that had little hooks (forerunner of the big claws on plastic cars) that served as door guides. Area of sides in doorway were to be cut out. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:23 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Trying to discover car side manufacturer > > > I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original > sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. > But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". > > These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, > cardboard. > Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. > On the left, car number is 5325. > I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature > determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. > > Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that > were on the reefer came from. > Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed > cardboard door, road number 10094. > > Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. > > Any ideas? > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3461	From: erieberk	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Dave, You couldn't be more right when you intimated that reporting numbers are something to look for in identifying a manufacturer. Actually, this should be one of the first things to look for as, except for a few exceptions, each manufacturer issued road numbers peculiar only to them for the same road names that other manufacturers produced. Unfortunately, its not always easy to find this obscure information. Your GN Orange box car sides, #10094, were in fact Mantua. I have a new set in cellophane wrapping with that same number (with "HO Gauge Mantua Metal Products, etc." printed in the doorway to be cut out. I would have mentioned something about this much sooner, but I believe you said you had GN reefer sides. As far as I can tell from all my pre-War and post-War Mantua catalogs, up into the '50's, the only Armour reefer Mantua made was Armour Star Lard. Mantua produced 16 different reefers pre-War and this was one of them. After the War, they added 4 more for a selection of 20, with this Armour still being one of them. If the Armour sides you're describing, with "Armour Canned Meats" on the lower right also has A large oval (also on the right) with "Armour's Quality Products" within it, its Red Ball as Red Ball had #5325 for its reporting number for this car. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original > sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. > But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". > > These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, > cardboard. > Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. > On the left, car number is 5325. > I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature > determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. > > Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that > were on the reefer came from. > Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed > cardboard door, road number 10094. > > Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. > > Any ideas? > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3462	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Dave... I attached it to the last email message... I will post it as well. Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Glenn- Yeah, I'd believe that, looking at these sides. The guy took the "easy" way and just glued the doors onto the sides! Sean- I can't find any photo of the car. However, the end beam in the "Lindsay Switcher" album is the plastic one I need ONE of! Dave > > OK, > I looked at my car and I decided to scan a picture.... Is this simular to it? > Sean > > > Glenn476 <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > Can't help on the numbers--don' t know if the ORER has private owner data. > > as to the Mantua boxcar--the doors were to be glued onto a thin aluminum sheet that had little hooks (forerunner of the big claws on plastic cars) that served as door guides. Area of sides in doorway were to be cut out. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:23 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Trying to discover car side manufacturer > > > I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original > sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. > But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". > > These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, > cardboard. > Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. > On the left, car number is 5325. > I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature > determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. > > Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that > were on the reefer came from. > Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed > cardboard door, road number 10094. > > Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. > > Any ideas? > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3463	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Then there you go...! Good Job Ray!   My Mantua scan of the sides still in the plastic wrap is up on the site as well...   Not that it matters now of course... Sean erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: Dave, You couldn't be more right when you intimated that reporting numbers are something to look for in identifying a manufacturer. Actually, this should be one of the first things to look for as, except for a few exceptions, each manufacturer issued road numbers peculiar only to them for the same road names that other manufacturers produced. Unfortunately, its not always easy to find this obscure information. Your GN Orange box car sides, #10094, were in fact Mantua. I have a new set in cellophane wrapping with that same number (with "HO Gauge Mantua Metal Products, etc." printed in the doorway to be cut out. I would have mentioned something about this much sooner, but I believe you said you had GN reefer sides. As far as I can tell from all my pre-War and post-War Mantua catalogs, up into the '50's, the only Armour reefer Mantua made was Armour Star Lard. Mantua produced 16 different reefers pre-War and this was one of them. After the War, they added 4 more for a selection of 20, with this Armour still being one of them. If the Armour sides you're describing, with "Armour Canned Meats" on the lower right also has A large oval (also on the right) with "Armour's Quality Products" within it, its Red Ball as Red Ball had #5325 for its reporting number for this car. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > > I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original > sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. > But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". > > These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, > cardboard. > Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. > On the left, car number is 5325. > I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature > determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. > > Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that > were on the reefer came from. > Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed > cardboard door, road number 10094. > > Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. > > Any ideas? > > Dave > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3464	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Okay, then, starting to come together a bit more. RedBall hopper and reefer, Binkley stock, Athearn Box, Varney boxes, Mantua reefer, Walther's tank, Ulrich composite gon, and a flatcar of unknown origins, but probably Varney. Add the 4 early 50's Mantua cars, that's the 14 freight cars...... Thanks! Dave > > Dave, You couldn't be more right when you intimated that reporting > numbers are something to look for in identifying a manufacturer. > Actually, this should be one of the first things to look for as, > except for a few exceptions, each manufacturer issued road numbers > peculiar only to them for the same road names that other > manufacturers produced. Unfortunately, its not always easy to find > this obscure information. Your GN Orange box car sides, #10094, were > in fact Mantua. I have a new set in cellophane wrapping with that > same number (with "HO Gauge Mantua Metal Products, etc." printed in > the doorway to be cut out. I would have mentioned something about > this much sooner, but I believe you said you had GN reefer sides. > > As far as I can tell from all my pre-War and post-War Mantua > catalogs, up into the '50's, the only Armour reefer Mantua made was > Armour Star Lard. Mantua produced 16 different reefers pre-War and > this was one of them. After the War, they added 4 more for a > selection of 20, with this Armour still being one of them. If the > Armour sides you're describing, with "Armour Canned Meats" on the > lower right also has A large oval (also on the right) with "Armour's > Quality Products" within it, its Red Ball as Red Ball had #5325 for > its reporting number for this car. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the > original > > sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. > > But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". > > > > These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, > > cardboard. > > Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. > > On the left, car number is 5325. > > I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature > > determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. > > > > Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that > > were on the reefer came from. > > Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed > > cardboard door, road number 10094. > > > > Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3465	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee cou

Chuck... I'll get a 30 series and give it a shot. Let me expand on the problem with the Cary cab..... The cab comes with a very long screw that goes through the under side of coupler box and coupler. No matter what I do I can't seem to get the Kaydee to sit secured in the coupler box so that it doesn't droop from the coupler box. The cover for the coupler box is clearly part of the solution for the Hustler chassis and it was screwed down to hold and secure the nmra coupler in the box. The box/coupler cover doesn't do a thing when the screw isn't there to hold things together. I suppose some sort of jury rigged thing using brass tubing might work but it would be very tricky when assembling things. I know it was just plain luck when I did get things positioned just right (biting on tongue, foul language, and way too much time spent trying) only to be disappointed by the droopy results. I haven't given up just yet but am waiting for a rainy day to try again. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Joe, > > Did you try a 30 series Kadee and try it with out the box? I am not > familiar with this Cary cab, but I have had to try some odd things for the > older models to work. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of oljoeoh > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:58 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee > couplers > > > > I have one of these and have had no luck trying to > mount a Kaydee coupler in the coupler box. The problem > is the mounting screw(s) for the Cary cab and the little > coupler box cover that is needed to keep the coupler > horizontal in the coupler box. It seems to be almost > impossible to do what is needed. Comments please. > Joe O'Loughlin >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3466	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Lindberg SW-1

I just picked up a Lindberg SW-1 and having never had one before, I always assumed from the Ads in MR that is was made by Lindber in the USA. However, when I opened the box (all the original paperwork was included) I saw the instructions were in German and in English. Was the SW-1 made in Germany and imported by Lindberg? Just curious. Thanks Matt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3467	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Lindberg SW-1

I am no expert, But I thought it was German... Sean mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: I just picked up a Lindberg SW-1 and having never had one before, I always assumed from the Ads in MR that is was made by Lindber in the USA. However, when I opened the box (all the original paperwork was included) I saw the instructions were in German and in English. Was the SW-1 made in Germany and imported by Lindberg? Just curious. Thanks Matt Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3468	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Lindberg SW-1

Dear Matt,   If I recall Lindberg from that time, they were being made in West Germany at that time (and I'm talking about non-model railroad items in this instance) such that the company was addressing the German and English-speaking markets. Were these Roco made units? I think so. I do recall that, unless someone else wishes to say different and has info thereto, that Revell (in this country) was packaging a well-known model railroad manufacturer's line under its name.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: I just picked up a Lindberg SW-1 and having never had one before, I always assumed from the Ads in MR that is was made by Lindber in the USA. However, when I opened the box (all the original paperwork was included) I saw the instructions were in German and in English. Was the SW-1 made in Germany and imported by Lindberg? Just curious. Thanks Matt Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3469	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and

Joe, it sounds like there is too much space between the cover and the frame.  I have glued a narrow strip of plastic on a cover to help lift the coupler in some instances.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of oljoeoh Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:37 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee couplers   Chuck... I'll get a 30 series and give it a shot. Let me expand on the problem with the Cary cab..... The cab comes with a very long screw that goes through the under side of coupler box and coupler. No matter what I do I can't seem to get the Kaydee to sit secured in the coupler box so that it doesn't droop from the coupler box. The cover for the coupler box is clearly part of the solution for the Hustler chassis and it was screwed down to hold and secure the nmra coupler in the box. The box/coupler cover doesn't do a thing when the screw isn't there to hold things together. I suppose some sort of jury rigged thing using brass tubing might work but it would be very tricky when assembling things. I know it was just plain luck when I did get things positioned just right (biting on tongue, foul language, and way too much time spent trying) only to be disappointed by the droopy results. I haven't given up just yet but am waiting for a rainy day to try again. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@. ..> wrote: > > Joe, > > Did you try a 30 series Kadee and try it with out the box? I am not > familiar with this Cary cab, but I have had to try some odd things for the > older models to work. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf > Of oljoeoh > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:58 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with w:st="on">Cary cab and Kaydee > couplers > > > > I have one of these and have had no luck trying to > mount a Kaydee coupler in the coupler box. The problem > is the mounting screw(s) for the Cary cab and the little > coupler box cover that is needed to keep the coupler > horizontal in the coupler box. It seems to be almost > impossible to do what is needed. Comments please. > Joe O'Loughlin >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3470	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

This is basically like the sides I sent Dave--definitely Mantua.  To be trimmed to fit the car body.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Trying to discover car side manufacturer OK, I looked at my car and I decided to scan a picture.... Is this simular to it? Sean Glenn476 <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: Can't help on the numbers--don' t know if the ORER has private owner data.    as to the Mantua boxcar--the doors were to be glued onto a thin aluminum sheet that had little hooks (forerunner of the big claws on plastic cars) that served as door guides. Area of sides in doorway were to be cut out. ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Trying to discover car side manufacturer I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, cardboard. Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. On the left, car number is 5325. I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that were on the reefer came from. Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed cardboard door, road number 10094. Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. Any ideas? Dave Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3471	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

that I don't have any of-- ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 5:54 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer Glenn- Yeah, I'd believe that, looking at these sides. The guy took the "easy" way and just glued the doors onto the sides! Sean- I can't find any photo of the car. However, the end beam in the "Lindsay Switcher" album is the plastic one I need ONE of! Dave > > OK, > I looked at my car and I decided to scan a picture.... Is this simular to it? > Sean > > > Glenn476 <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > Can't help on the numbers--don' t know if the ORER has private owner data. > > as to the Mantua boxcar--the doors were to be glued onto a thin aluminum sheet that had little hooks (forerunner of the big claws on plastic cars) that served as door guides. Area of sides in doorway were to be cut out. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:23 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Trying to discover car side manufacturer > > > I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original > sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. > But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". > > These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, > cardboard. > Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. > On the left, car number is 5325. > I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature > determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. > > Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that > were on the reefer came from. > Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed > cardboard door, road number 10094. > > Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. > > Any ideas? > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3472	From: Glenn476	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

As I recall going with my Dad to J&J Hobbies in San Carlos back in the late 40's, the guy at the shop got a Mantua kit off the shelf, then a box full of side sets.  We rummaged thru those sets of embossed and printed sides until we found one we liked, which was then placed into the box with the kit. I think there may have been a piece of paper in the kit that was removed to send back to Mantua when reordering sides to account for sides put with kits sold.  I was all of 7 at the time. ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer Dave, You couldn't be more right when you intimated that reporting numbers are something to look for in identifying a manufacturer. Actually, this should be one of the first things to look for as, except for a few exceptions, each manufacturer issued road numbers peculiar only to them for the same road names that other manufacturers produced. Unfortunately, its not always easy to find this obscure information. Your GN Orange box car sides, #10094, were in fact Mantua. I have a new set in cellophane wrapping with that same number (with "HO Gauge Mantua Metal Products, etc." printed in the doorway to be cut out. I would have mentioned something about this much sooner, but I believe you said you had GN reefer sides. As far as I can tell from all my pre-War and post-War Mantua catalogs, up into the '50's, the only Armour reefer Mantua made was Armour Star Lard. Mantua produced 16 different reefers pre-War and this was one of them. After the War, they added 4 more for a selection of 20, with this Armour still being one of them. If the Armour sides you're describing, with "Armour Canned Meats" on the lower right also has A large oval (also on the right) with "Armour's Quality Products" within it, its Red Ball as Red Ball had #5325 for its reporting number for this car. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > > I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original > sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. > But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". > > These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, > cardboard. > Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. > On the left, car number is 5325. > I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature > determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. > > Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that > were on the reefer came from. > Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed > cardboard door, road number 10094. > > Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. > > Any ideas? > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3473	From: curmudgeon	Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer

Mine was assembled, badly...the roof braces looked like wooden matchsticks, pitch too steep...etc. Got the paint yarded off the roof, filed the braces down, then the sides to straighten them, super-glue and re-sand, then paint, not too bad. Metal ends (cast), cast ice hatches and roofwalk, typical (for this builder) wood center sill, but it's together and looks not too bad. I think we decided it was RedBall. Dave > > This is basically like the sides I sent Dave--definitely Mantua. To be trimmed to fit the car body. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Trying to discover car side manufacturer > > > > OK, > I looked at my car and I decided to scan a picture.... Is this simular to it? > Sean > > > Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: > Can't help on the numbers--don't know if the ORER has private owner data. > > as to the Mantua boxcar--the doors were to be glued onto a thin aluminum sheet that had little hooks (forerunner of the big claws on plastic cars) that served as door guides. Area of sides in doorway were to be cut out. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:23 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Trying to discover car side manufacturer > > > I thought this was Mantua, and that would explain where the original > sides to the Reefer went that I was working on. > But, the Mantua literature for "Armour" says it's "Armour Lard". > > These sides are yellow, black painted vertical scribing and doors, > cardboard. > Armour Refrigerator Line. On the lower right, Armour Canned Meats. > On the left, car number is 5325. > I find references to Armour cars, just cannot from said literature > determine the car number to actually, positively identify these. > > Then, I decided to try to find out where the GN Boxcar sides that > were on the reefer came from. > Orange GN, embossed cardboard sides with separate glue-on embossed > cardboard door, road number 10094. > > Finding literature that shows road numbers has been difficult. > > Any ideas? > > Dave > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3474	From: oljoeoh	Date: 4/26/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kay

Chuck..... The screw that goes from the bottom of the chassis through the coupler box, the remains of the the original plastic cab, and then into the diecast Cary cab is 3/4" long. Take my word for it - even if I had 6 hands I find it hard to believe everything can be assembled and still not have a droopy Kaydee result. For what it's worth - the original nmra coupler is held in place by a metal cover and a -from the topside- screw. One of these days I'll have another go at it. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Joe, it sounds like there is too much space between the cover and the frame. > I have glued a narrow strip of plastic on a cover to help lift the coupler > in some instances. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of oljoeoh > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:37 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and > Kaydee couplers > > > > Chuck... > I'll get a 30 series and give it a shot. > Let me expand on the problem with the Cary cab..... > The cab comes with a very long screw that goes through > the under side of coupler box and coupler. No matter what I do > I can't seem to get the Kaydee to sit secured in the > coupler box so that it doesn't droop from the coupler > box. The cover for the coupler box is clearly part of > the solution for the Hustler chassis and it was screwed > down to hold and secure the nmra coupler in the box. The > box/coupler cover doesn't do a thing when the screw isn't > there to hold things together. I suppose some sort of > jury rigged thing using brass tubing might work but it > would be very tricky when assembling things. I know it > was just plain luck when I did get things positioned > just right (biting on tongue, foul language, and way > too much time spent trying) only to be disappointed > by the droopy results. I haven't given up just yet > but am waiting for a rainy day to try again. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, > "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@> wrote: > > > > Joe, > > > > Did you try a 30 series Kadee and try it with out the box? I am not > > familiar with this Cary cab, but I have had to try some odd things > for the > > older models to work. > > > > > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout > > http://community. <http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104> > webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com] > On Behalf > > Of oljoeoh > > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:58 AM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com > > Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee > > couplers > > > > > > > > I have one of these and have had no luck trying to > > mount a Kaydee coupler in the coupler box. The problem > > is the mounting screw(s) for the Cary cab and the little > > coupler box cover that is needed to keep the coupler > > horizontal in the coupler box. It seems to be almost > > impossible to do what is needed. Comments please. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3475	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 4/26/2007
Subject: Re: Lindberg SW-1

John, That certainly makes sense. I know from my days in IPMS that Lindberg got the dies for their plastic model kits from a variety of sources, including some contract die work in Chicago, so contracting with a German company already in the model making business would have been smart. Given the Mark to Dollar exchange rate in the early 60s, the SW-600/SW-1 at $8.95 was well priced to enter the market when an Athearn F-7 was $10.95. The diework on mine is excellent and it is well proportioned -- certainly is a fun addition to the growing 60s era model layout in the spare room. The traction tires on the wheels are a gooey mess and will need some sort of replacement soon I can tell. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Dear Matt, > > If I recall Lindberg from that time, they were being made in West Germany at that time (and I'm talking about non-model railroad items in this instance) such that the company was addressing the German and English-speaking markets. Were these Roco made units? I think so. I do recall that, unless someone else wishes to say different and has info thereto, that Revell (in this country) was packaging a well- known model railroad manufacturer's line under its name. > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3476	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 4/27/2007
Subject: trains

Hi Guys:  I  got  a  atlas HO Roundhouse, Turntable,turntable Motor Drive Unit.                               Ray L             I had a Stroke Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3477	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Test

Just a test, please carry on as you were. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3478	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test

You forgot to include: Had this been a real emergency, your would have been instructed to................... Carrying on, as instructed..........:-) _________________________________________________________________ Don�t quit your job � Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3479	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test

Well.... at lease we know the internet is working.....  I wonder where everyone is...? Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: You forgot to include: Had this been a real emergency, your would have been instructed to................... Carrying on, as instructed..........:-) _________________________________________________________________ Don’t quit your job – Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3480	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test

COME ON SEAN............ GET WITH THE PROGRAM. WE ARE ALL CARRYING ON, WHY AREN'T YOU??? :-) _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as $771/month* https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3481	From: donvdh	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test

Sean - I'm here. Some people won't answer the phone, anyway. To those who are carrying on. I've sold all of my Lionel equipment and have a tray full of spare parts left, all Hi-Fi drive. I imagine if you know what you're doing around 2 or 3 engines could be put together. If anyone is interested e-mail me at donvdh@.... I can send pictures but don't yet know how to post them here. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3482	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test

Don, Actually, I had misplaced my phone all week and the battery was dead, so I was unable to find it by calling it. I stumbled on it today while in the Garage. Did you call? I had 14 missed calls...   I have another Bachmann 4-8-4 that does not run.... I have a NYC Niagra that does... No tenders for either.... I might list the Niagra..... might get $28 - $32 for it...   As for the tender you are asking me about... there are a bunch of people watching it, so I will not end it... but you are welcome to bid... we can work something out... Sean donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: Sean - I'm here. Some people won't answer the phone, anyway. To those who are carrying on. I've sold all of my Lionel equipment and have a tray full of spare parts left, all Hi-Fi drive. I imagine if you know what you're doing around 2 or 3 engines could be put together. If anyone is interested e-mail me at donvdh@cableone. net. I can send pictures but don't yet know how to post them here. Don V.   Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3483	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test

Sean, here in the north east many of us are just getting outside for that thing called yard work and the honey do list.  Cuts into model railroading quite a bit. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test   Well.... at lease we know the internet is working.....  I wonder where everyone is...? Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote: You forgot to include: Had this been a real emergency, your would have been instructed to.......... ......... Carrying on, as instructed.. ........: -) ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Don’t quit your job – Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesu sa.com/clickcoun t.cfm?id= 866146&goto=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww. classesusa. com%2Ffeaturedsc hools%2Fonlinede greesmp%2Fform- dyn1.html% 3Fsplovr% 3D866144 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/     Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3484	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test

I know all about it... I am in the NE too.... The honey do as well... Fortunately, it usually only takes me 45 min to cut my grass.. Last week, since it was the first cut of the year, it took me 2 hours and 4 beers to complete...   In fact, the honey do list was the topic of a heated conversation. She wants to add more. I lost!   You guys must be too out of shape to keep going afterwards... Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: Sean, here in the north east many of us are just getting outside for that thing called yard work and the honey do list.  Cuts into model railroading quite a bit. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test Well.... at lease we know the internet is working.....  I wonder where everyone is...? Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote: You forgot to include: Had this been a real emergency, your would have been instructed to.......... ......... Carrying on, as instructed.. ........: -) ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Don’t quit your job – Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesu sa.com/clickcoun t.cfm?id= 866146&goto=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww. classesusa. com%2Ffeaturedsc hools%2Fonlinede greesmp%2Fform- dyn1.html% 3Fsplovr% 3D866144 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/   Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3485	From: sean naylor	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: Test

I know all about it... I am in the NE too.... The honey do as well... Fortunately, it usually only takes me 45 min to cut my grass.. Last week, since it was the first cut of the year, it took me 2 hours and 4 beers to complete...   In fact, the honey do list was the topic of a heated conversation. She wants to add more. I lost!   You guys must be too out of shape to keep going afterwards... Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: Sean, here in the north east many of us are just getting outside for that thing called yard work and the honey do list.  Cuts into model railroading quite a bit. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test Well.... at lease we know the internet is working.....  I wonder where everyone is...? Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote: You forgot to include: Had this been a real emergency, your would have been instructed to.......... ......... Carrying on, as instructed.. ........: -) ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Don’t quit your job – Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesu sa.com/clickcoun t.cfm?id= 866146&goto=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww. classesusa. com%2Ffeaturedsc hools%2Fonlinede greesmp%2Fform- dyn1.html% 3Fsplovr% 3D866144 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/   Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3486	From: Larry	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Just thought Someone maybe interested

I was contacted a while back by an elderly gentleman (Skeezixs). He wants to sell his older HO trains. I have allowed him to add pictures to my Website so viewing is possible. He stated he did like Ebay and had no idea on how much to price these trains for. So if anyone wants to contact him this is the link to view his trains and get an email address. Maybe this is an opportunity to find something your looking for. There are over 50 train engines including train sets listed. http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/skeezix Larry

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3487	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test

Vintage will do that to a person.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:26 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test   I know all about it... I am in the NE too.... The honey do as well... Fortunately, it usually only takes me 45 min to cut my grass.. Last week, since it was the first cut of the year, it took me 2 hours and 4 beers to complete...   In fact, the honey do list was the topic of a heated conversation. She wants to add more. I lost!   You guys must be too out of shape to keep going afterwards.. . Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@verizon. net> wrote: Sean, here in the north east many of us are just getting outside for that thing called yard work and the honey do list.  Cuts into model railroading quite a bit. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test Well.... at lease we know the internet is working.....  I wonder where everyone is...? Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote: You forgot to include: Had this been a real emergency, your would have been instructed to.......... ......... Carrying on, as instructed.. ........: -) ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Don’t quit your job – Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesu sa.com/clickcoun t.cfm?id= 866146&goto=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww. classesusa. com%2Ffeaturedsc hools%2Fonlinede greesmp%2Fform- dyn1.html% 3Fsplovr% 3D866144 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/   Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.     Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3488	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test

Tell me about it.  I've been on vacation the last week, the only reason I got to do any work on the railroad at all was because we had four days of rain.  I did get two bushes dug out, the area where they were filled with crushed marble, got the grass cut yesterday, planted three flats of flowers, got my sugar snap peas and my wax beans planted, (still need to do the green beans and the spinach but it's still too wet where they're gonna go), tomatoes, onions, bell peppers and cucumbers will go in in a couple weeks (still a little early here in Wisconsin).    Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 5:34 AM Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test Sean, here in the north east many of us are just getting outside for that thing called yard work and the honey do list.  Cuts into model railroading quite a bit. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test   Well.... at lease we know the internet is working.....  I wonder where everyone is...? Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote: You forgot to include: Had this been a real emergency, your would have been instructed to.......... ......... Carrying on, as instructed.. ........: -) ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Don’t quit your job – Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesu sa.com/clickcoun t.cfm?id= 866146&goto=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww. classesusa. com%2Ffeaturedsc hools%2Fonlinede greesmp%2Fform- dyn1.html% 3Fsplovr% 3D866144 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/     Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3489	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: Test

As always; if you or any members of your team are captured; the Secretary will disavow any knowledge. THIS EMAIL WILL SELF-DESTRUCT IN 15 SECONDS......... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Apr 28, 2007, at 6:36 PM, Salt&Pepper Whoknows wrote: > You forgot to include: > > Had this been a real emergency, your would have been instructed > to................... > > Carrying on, as instructed..........:-)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3490	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/30/2007
Subject: Re: Test

Geez Sean, I know you are no where near as experienced (read; OLD) as me but I thought you had been around long enough to know the length of a "honey-do" is directly proportional to the length to any discussion of same. And requests for reduction of same generally leads to rapid escalation in the rate of additions of said list on a continualling upward curve that can only be stopped by volunteering to do any and all laundry related tasks, including ironing and proper stowage of neatly folded/hangered items. This must be for a minimum period of six (6) months from the date of offense. WARNING, DO NOT attempt to sidestep such volunteered duties by stowage of UN-neatly folded/hangered items as this will lead the said items being removed directly for dresser/closet to the hamper for total re-laundering. In addition, your shirts will also be removed from dresser/closet to the hamper with an intermediate step (wiping the dog off after being outside in the rain) thrown in. In addition, a twelve-item penalty will be added to the "honey-do". John Hagen Ping to Daon Dellman, keep me informed on the wax beans. I tried planting some wax grapes once and had no luck at all. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I know all about it... I am in the NE too.... The honey do as well... Fortunately, it usually only takes me 45 min to cut my grass.. Last week, since it was the first cut of the year, it took me 2 hours and 4 beers to complete... In fact, the honey do list was the topic of a heated conversation. She wants to add more. I lost! > > You guys must be too out of shape to keep going afterwards...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3491	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: AF H-O

I recently won a American Flyer H-0 Alco six axle diesel, It now runs but very noisly. It appears the bottom cover of the trucks might be pried off, there are no screws. Has any one worked on one of these units? Also is there a source for replacement handrails? Looked at the results Google produced but no luck there. Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3492	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O

Probably not pried, but if I recall, there are end catches that need to be CAREFULLY depressed to get the covers off. Been many years (read: decades) since I had one of those to work on, and you don't want to be breaking stuff. Some of those were made by other manufacturers under contract, so we need to find out who. Handrails, you have anything at all there? Dave > I recently won a American Flyer H-0 Alco six axle diesel, It now runs > but very noisly. It appears the bottom cover of the trucks might be > pried off, there are no screws. Has any one worked on one of these > units? Also is there a source for replacement handrails? Looked at > the results Google produced but no luck there. Roger Aultman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3493	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: Test

Can someone point me to "HOSEEKER's" web address??? Looking for the skeezik's 4 sale items. Thanks Loren _________________________________________________________________ Interest Rates NEAR 39yr LOWS! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,299/mo - Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-19132&moid=14888

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3494	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: Test

http://hoseeker.net/forum/ > > Can someone point me to "HOSEEKER's" web address??? > > Looking for the skeezik's 4 sale items. > > Thanks > > Loren > > _________________________________________________________________ > Interest Rates NEAR 39yr LOWS! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,299/mo - Calculate > new payment > http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632- 19132&moid=14888 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3495	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: Test

http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/skeezix Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Can someone point me to "HOSEEKER's" web address??? Looking for the skeezik's 4 sale items. Thanks Loren _________________________________________________________________ Interest Rates NEAR 39yr LOWS! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,299/mo - Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-19132&moid=14888 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3496	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O

I found a exploded view of the Alco it appears the covers are pinned on, will carefully try to remove them. Picture in the Photo section. Roger curmudgeon wrote: > > > Probably not pried, but if I recall, there are end catches that need > to be CAREFULLY depressed to get the covers off. > Been many years (read: decades) since I had one of those to work on, > and you don't want to be breaking stuff. > Some of those were made by other manufacturers under contract, so we > need to find out who. > Handrails, you have anything at all there? > Dave > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.html Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3497	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O

Attachments : Attached is a picture of one truck, the cover may be pinned to the truck as the top of the truck has holes. If the trucks are disconnected the motor runs at about 1/2 amp no load full volts. Was wondering if the worm shaft could be one piece with the coupling, seems like Varney had some diesels like that. Roger curmudgeon wrote: > > > Probably not pried, but if I recall, there are end catches that need > to be CAREFULLY depressed to get the covers off. > Been many years (read: decades) since I had one of those to work on, > and you don't want to be breaking stuff. > Some of those were made by other manufacturers under contract, so we > need to find out who. > Handrails, you have anything at all there? > Dave > > > I recently won a American Flyer H-0 Alco six axle diesel, It now runs > > but very noisly. It appears the bottom cover of the trucks might be > > pried off, there are no screws. Has any one worked on one of these > > units? Also is there a source for replacement handrails? Looked at > > the results Google produced but no luck there. Roger Aultman > > > -- http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.html Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3498	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O

Yup, does look like they're pinned with "drive pins". Like the ones on later Mantua cars. I would cut the heads flush with a cutoff wheel, remove the guts, then use my trusty end-nippers to grab the stub and pull it out. Tap it for 2-56 or whatever and re-assemble with screws. UNLESS the hole goes all the way through and you can drift them from the top! Dave > > Attached is a picture of one truck, the cover may be pinned to the truck > as the top of the truck has holes. If the trucks are disconnected the > motor runs at about 1/2 amp no load full volts. Was wondering if the > worm shaft could be one piece with the coupling, seems like Varney had > some diesels like that. Roger > > > > curmudgeon wrote: > > > > > > Probably not pried, but if I recall, there are end catches that need > > to be CAREFULLY depressed to get the covers off. > > Been many years (read: decades) since I had one of those to work on, > > and you don't want to be breaking stuff. > > Some of those were made by other manufacturers under contract, so we > > need to find out who. > > Handrails, you have anything at all there? > > Dave > > > > > I recently won a American Flyer H-0 Alco six axle diesel, It now runs > > > but very noisly. It appears the bottom cover of the trucks might be > > > pried off, there are no screws. Has any one worked on one of these > > > units? Also is there a source for replacement handrails? Looked at > > > the results Google produced but no luck there. Roger Aultman > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.html > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3499	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O

Attachments : I have the same pins on my Gilbert Industrial Transfer Service Diesel switcher... I have thought about pulling them out, but i chose to leave them anf remove the drivers from the axles and then remove the axles. I had no problems aligning the gear because I had access through a hole in the bottom of the plate. Unfortunately, I do not see a hole in the center of the axle over the gear on yours... curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Yup, does look like they're pinned with "drive pins". Like the ones on later Mantua cars. I would cut the heads flush with a cutoff wheel, remove the guts, then use my trusty end-nippers to grab the stub and pull it out. Tap it for 2-56 or whatever and re-assemble with screws. UNLESS the hole goes all the way through and you can drift them from the top! Dave > > Attached is a picture of one truck, the cover may be pinned to the truck > as the top of the truck has holes. If the trucks are disconnected the > motor runs at about 1/2 amp no load full volts. Was wondering if the > worm shaft could be one piece with the coupling, seems like Varney had > some diesels like that. Roger > > > > curmudgeon wrote: > > > > > > Probably not pried, but if I recall, there are end catches that need > > to be CAREFULLY depressed to get the covers off. > > Been many years (read: decades) since I had one of those to work on, > > and you don't want to be breaking stuff. > > Some of those were made by other manufacturers under contract, so we > > need to find out who. > > Handrails, you have anything at all there? > > Dave > > > > > I recently won a American Flyer H-0 Alco six axle diesel, It now runs > > > but very noisly. It appears the bottom cover of the trucks might be > > > pried off, there are no screws. Has any one worked on one of these > > > units? Also is there a source for replacement handrails? Looked at > > > the results Google produced but no luck there. Roger Aultman > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.html > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/ > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3500	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: mogul taxonomy

Attachments : Having just sent this by mistake to the SP&S group...(!)...will try again...I seek a maker's ID on this Wabash Mogul superstructure...it came originally from Bill Schopp....the seller thought maybe Gem...I felt it looked like the United finish....another more informed HO colleague thought Kemtron...does anyone recognize it? Not sure about sending pix to the group...just as attachment? Or do they have to be directed to a specific folder...i.e. are non-text attachments binned? Thanks! Russ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3501	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: mogul taxonomy

Those of us who view "web only" to keep the inbox level controllable, don't get to see attachments! > > Having just sent this by mistake to the SP&S group...(!)...will try again...I seek a maker's ID on this Wabash Mogul superstructure...it came originally from Bill Schopp....the seller thought maybe Gem...I felt it looked like the United finish....another more informed HO colleague thought Kemtron...does anyone recognize it? Not sure about sending pix to the group...just as attachment? Or do they have to be directed to a specific folder...i.e. are non-text attachments binned? > Thanks! Russ > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3502	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Yup, does look like they're pinned with "drive pins". > Like the ones on later Mantua cars. > I would cut the heads flush with a cutoff wheel, remove the guts, > then use my trusty end-nippers to grab the stub and pull it out. > Tap it for 2-56 or whatever and re-assemble with screws. > UNLESS the hole goes all the way through and you can drift them from > the top! >Looks like that may be the only way to get the covers off. When I was working we used drive pins to attach name plates to some spindles, they were a bear to get off but being bigger it was possible to get under them and pry them out. These I cannot budge with a X-acto blade even after applying WD40. Roger > > > > -- > > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.html > > > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3503	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I have the same pins on my Gilbert Industrial Transfer Service Diesel switcher... I have thought about pulling them out, but i chose to leave them anf remove the drivers from the axles and then remove the axles. I had no problems aligning the gear because I had access through a hole in the bottom of the plate. Unfortunately, I do not see a hole in the center of the axle over the gear on yours... > A good idea but would be a problem with this loco due to the sideframes. May remove the trucks and see if the heads of the pins can be milled off. I never had a lot of luck grinding with a hand held tool. Roger > > > > -- > > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.html > > > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3504	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O

Is there a way to get to them from the other side? Meaning.. I know the holes do not go all the way through the truck frame, but could you drill from the other side and possibbly tap / push them out from there...? This way, you may be able to replace them and leave it looking mostly original Sean Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > > Yup, does look like they're pinned with "drive pins". > Like the ones on later Mantua cars. > I would cut the heads flush with a cutoff wheel, remove the guts, > then use my trusty end-nippers to grab the stub and pull it out. > Tap it for 2-56 or whatever and re-assemble with screws. > UNLESS the hole goes all the way through and you can drift them from > the top! >Looks like that may be the only way to get the covers off. When I was working we used drive pins to attach name plates to some spindles, they were a bear to get off but being bigger it was possible to get under them and pry them out. These I cannot budge with a X-acto blade even after applying WD40. Roger > > > > -- > > http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.html > > > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/ > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3505	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Is there a way to get to them from the other side? Meaning.. I know the holes do not go all the way through the truck frame, but could you drill from the other side and possibbly tap / push them out from there...? This way, you may be able to replace them and leave it looking mostly original Sean >Possibly could be done but I might try milling off the heads first. Roger > > > > > > -- > > > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.html > > > > > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/ > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3506	From: Bill Daley	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Test

Regarding the "honey-do" list, John Hagen wrote  "....ln addition, your shirts will also be removed from dresser/closet to the hamper with an intermediate step (wiping the dog off after being outside in the rain) thrown in. In addition, a twelve-item penalty will be added to the "honey-do" ..." but he forgot to mention.... ....  she will launder your undershorts SECRETLY,.... AND ADD STARCH!!! retired grouch Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3507	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Test

Where did you guys find these women??? :-) Loren ============================================================= >From: Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> >Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Test >Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 12:50:14 -0700 (PDT) > > Regarding the "honey-do" list, > John Hagen wrote > "....ln addition, your shirts will also be removed from dresser/closet >to the >hamper with an intermediate step (wiping the dog off after being >outside in the rain) thrown in. In addition, a twelve-item penalty >will be added to the "honey-do" ..." > but he forgot to mention.... > .... she will launder your undershorts SECRETLY,.... AND ADD STARCH!!! > > retired grouch > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger. Join the i�m Initiative. Help make a difference today. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3508	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: AF H-O

Roger, Do you have access to a drill press?  You could mount the loco truck in a vice and set the drill with a grinding bit in it to the right height and control it better.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Roger Aultman Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 12:13 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: AF H-O   --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > I have the same pins on my Gilbert Industrial Transfer Service Diesel switcher... I have thought about pulling them out, but i chose to leave them anf remove the drivers from the axles and then remove the axles. I had no problems aligning the gear because I had access through a hole in the bottom of the plate. Unfortunately, I do not see a hole in the center of the axle over the gear on yours... > A good idea but would be a problem with this loco due to the sideframes. May remove the trucks and see if the heads of the pins can be milled off. I never had a lot of luck grinding with a hand held tool. Roger > > > > -- > > http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.html > > > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group. > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/ > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3509	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Test

Well, in my case I am speaking from experience with wife1.0, which was so promblematical I was forced to un-install it. Sometime later I discovered wife2.0 which has been a much more satisfactory installation. I can't speak for Bill but it sounds like he upgraded to wife1.2 without doing a complete un-install first. This has been know to lead to the program running by itself, completely ignoring user imput. A very nasty situation at best. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: > > Where did you guys find these women??? :-) > > Loren > ============================================================= > >From: Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@...> > >Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Test > >Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 12:50:14 -0700 (PDT) > > > > Regarding the "honey-do" list, > > John Hagen wrote > > "....ln addition, your shirts will also be removed from dresser/closet > >to the > >hamper with an intermediate step (wiping the dog off after being > >outside in the rain) thrown in. In addition, a twelve-item penalty > >will be added to the "honey-do" ..." > > but he forgot to mention.... > > .... she will launder your undershorts SECRETLY,.... AND ADD STARCH!!! > > > > retired grouch

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3510	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Question

I will be the first to tell you I don't know everything about anything. Some areas I am quite knowledgeable in, others I have sequestered information in the brain bucket for a lot of decades. Question came up on another forum about couplers. This person mentioned "Lincoln Pins", which I immediately recognized as a generally clueless spelling of "link and pin". Now this person claims there was an outfit called "Lincoln's Pins" that made white metal pockets with brass links and pins. I have never heard of said outfit, never seen that name, and so far neither has any of the old-timer staffers at MR. I canot imagine one outfit would make a living from making ONLY link and pin couplings, but stranger things have happened. In larger scales, we get and use them from Trackside Details, and I think Ozark has them. All I can imagine is that these were one product in a line (like CalScale). Any commentary? Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3511	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: mogul taxonomy

I would rule out Kemtron as it seems to have a clear lacquer finish, which is unusual for a builder to use.  Kemtron locos were strictly kits.  I haven't built a Wabash, but have built several C-16's and worked over a Shay.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Shiel To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] mogul taxonomy Having just sent this by mistake to the SP&S group...(!). ..will try again...I seek a maker's ID on this Wabash Mogul superstructure. ..it came originally from Bill Schopp....the seller thought maybe Gem...I felt it looked like the United finish....another more informed HO colleague thought Kemtron...does anyone recognize it? Not sure about sending pix to the group...just as attachment? Or do they have to be directed to a specific folder...i.e. are non-text attachments binned? Thanks! Russ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger .yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3512	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I will be the first to tell you I don't know everything about anything. > Some areas I am quite knowledgeable in, others I have sequestered > information in the brain bucket for a lot of decades. > > Question came up on another forum about couplers. > This person mentioned "Lincoln Pins", which I immediately recognized > as a generally clueless spelling of "link and pin". > Now this person claims there was an outfit called "Lincoln's Pins" > that made white metal pockets with brass links and pins. > I have never heard of said outfit, never seen that name, and so far > neither has any of the old-timer staffers at MR. > > I canot imagine one outfit would make a living from making ONLY link > and pin couplings, but stranger things have happened. > In larger scales, we get and use them from Trackside Details, and I > think Ozark has them. All I can imagine is that these were one product \ It seems like Alexander made some labeled as H-0 that were popolar with 0 scale narrow gaugers. Roger Aultman > in a line (like CalScale). > > Any commentary? > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3513	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question

so far, Alexander Models is the only one research has found. Still makes, them, apparently. > > It seems like Alexander made some labeled as H-0 that were popolar > with 0 scale narrow gaugers. Roger Aultman > > in a line (like CalScale). > > > > Any commentary? > > > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3514	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question

Kemtron made them in HO years ago. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:17 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question > so far, Alexander Models is the only one research has found. Still > makes, them, apparently. > > >> >> It seems like Alexander made some labeled as H-0 that were popolar >> with 0 scale narrow gaugers. Roger Aultman >> > in a line (like CalScale). >> > >> > Any commentary? >> > >> > Dave >> > >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3515	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question

Memory, memory, wherefore art thou? I am positive there were at least two manufacturers of link and pin couplers that I have seen ads for over the years. Probably more and at least one had them in HO and I also remember one using white metal pockets w/brass links and pins, which I thought unusual as opposed to all brass. BUT, exactly who the heck they were is beyond me at the moment. However I am also very positive that they a part of a known companies product line. Alexander is probably one and Precision Scale, maybe Cal Scale....I would have remembered something as hokey as link-n-pin couplers madw by someone called Lincoln Pin. I once saw a classified ad in the local newspaper for a 1963 Dodge truck described as a "cabin chassis" instead of the correct cab and chassis. This was at least twenty years ago but some things just manage to stick in the cobwebs of what once was my mind. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I will be the first to tell you I don't know everything about anything. > Some areas I am quite knowledgeable in, others I have sequestered > information in the brain bucket for a lot of decades. > > Question came up on another forum about couplers. > This person mentioned "Lincoln Pins", which I immediately recognized > as a generally clueless spelling of "link and pin". > Now this person claims there was an outfit called "Lincoln's Pins" > that made white metal pockets with brass links and pins. > I have never heard of said outfit, never seen that name, and so far > neither has any of the old-timer staffers at MR. > > I canot imagine one outfit would make a living from making ONLY link > and pin couplings, but stranger things have happened. > In larger scales, we get and use them from Trackside Details, and I > think Ozark has them. All I can imagine is that these were one product > in a line (like CalScale). > > Any commentary? > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3516	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I > would have remembered something as hokey as link-n-pin couplers made > by someone called Lincoln Pin. Seems like Lin N Pinn was a pseudonym for a magazine column on old time railroading. Maybe Crafstman or the Bulletin. Roger Aultman > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3517	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > I > > would have remembered something as hokey as link-n-pin couplers made > > by someone called Lincoln Pin. > > > > > Seems like Lin N Pinn was a pseudonym for a magazine column on old > time railroading. Maybe Crafstman or the Bulletin. Roger Aultman That should be Link N Pinn Roger > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3518	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question

without casting aspersions (yet), I do believe he is trying to cover his hindquarters and failing miserably. So far, Alexander and Precision Scale make them currently, Kemtron did, but they were swallowed my Precision Scale, weren't they? Dave > > Memory, memory, wherefore art thou? I am positive there were at least > two manufacturers of link and pin couplers that I have seen ads for > over the years. Probably more and at least one had them in HO and I > also remember one using white metal pockets w/brass links and pins, > which I thought unusual as opposed to all brass. BUT, exactly who the > heck they were is beyond me at the moment. However I am also very > positive that they a part of a known companies product line. > Alexander is probably one and Precision Scale, maybe Cal Scale....I > would have remembered something as hokey as link-n-pin couplers madw > by someone called Lincoln Pin. I once saw a classified ad in the > local newspaper for a 1963 Dodge truck described as a "cabin chassis" > instead of the correct cab and chassis. This was at least twenty > years ago but some things just manage to stick in the cobwebs of what > once was my mind. > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > wrote: > > > > I will be the first to tell you I don't know everything about > anything. > > Some areas I am quite knowledgeable in, others I have sequestered > > information in the brain bucket for a lot of decades. > > > > Question came up on another forum about couplers. > > This person mentioned "Lincoln Pins", which I immediately > recognized > > as a generally clueless spelling of "link and pin". > > Now this person claims there was an outfit called "Lincoln's Pins" > > that made white metal pockets with brass links and pins. > > I have never heard of said outfit, never seen that name, and so far > > neither has any of the old-timer staffers at MR. > > > > I canot imagine one outfit would make a living from making ONLY > link > > and pin couplings, but stranger things have happened. > > In larger scales, we get and use them from Trackside Details, and I > > think Ozark has them. All I can imagine is that these were one > product > > in a line (like CalScale). > > > > Any commentary? > > > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3519	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question

I remember something of this pen-name from an article decades ago........ It was either Linn Westcott or Al Kalmbach that used this name...... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On May 2, 2007, at 11:49 PM, Roger Aultman wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> wrote: >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: >>> >>> I >>> would have remembered something as hokey as link-n-pin couplers made >>> by someone called Lincoln Pin. >> >> >> >> >> Seems like Lin N Pinn was a pseudonym for a magazine column on old >> time railroading. Maybe Crafstman or the Bulletin. Roger Aultman > > > > That should be Link N Pinn Roger

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3520	From: Larry	Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question

This probably isn't the one your looking for, but this is the link and pin coupler made by Kemtron. I have some Alexander Literature to check. Will get back later. http://hoseeker.net/kemtron/Kemtron03.jpg Larry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I remember something of this pen-name from an article decades > ago........ > > It was either Linn Westcott or Al Kalmbach that used this name...... > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On May 2, 2007, at 11:49 PM, Roger Aultman wrote: > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@> wrote: > >> > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > >>> > >>> I > >>> would have remembered something as hokey as link-n-pin couplers made > >>> by someone called Lincoln Pin. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Seems like Lin N Pinn was a pseudonym for a magazine column on old > >> time railroading. Maybe Crafstman or the Bulletin. Roger Aultman > > > > > > > > That should be Link N Pinn Roger >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3521	From: Larry	Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question

Is this link and pin coupler pictured here: http://www.rbadesign.net/TERRAPIN/LinkAndPin.htm Larry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I remember something of this pen-name from an article decades > ago........ > > It was either Linn Westcott or Al Kalmbach that used this name...... > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On May 2, 2007, at 11:49 PM, Roger Aultman wrote: > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@> wrote: > >> > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > >>> > >>> I > >>> would have remembered something as hokey as link-n-pin couplers made > >>> by someone called Lincoln Pin. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Seems like Lin N Pinn was a pseudonym for a magazine column on old > >> time railroading. Maybe Crafstman or the Bulletin. Roger Aultman > > > > > > > > That should be Link N Pinn Roger >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3522	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question

I recall it as the pseudonym of the columnist-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@. ..> wrote: > > I > would have remembered something as hokey as link-n-pin couplers made > by someone called Lincoln Pin. Seems like Lin N Pinn was a pseudonym for a magazine column on old time railroading. Maybe Crafstman or the Bulletin. Roger Aultman > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3523	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question

Foothill Model Works and Grandt also have them--On3 sized--Grandt may also make some in HO. ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question without casting aspersions (yet), I do believe he is trying to cover his hindquarters and failing miserably. So far, Alexander and Precision Scale make them currently, Kemtron did, but they were swallowed my Precision Scale, weren't they? Dave > > Memory, memory, wherefore art thou? I am positive there were at least > two manufacturers of link and pin couplers that I have seen ads for > over the years. Probably more and at least one had them in HO and I > also remember one using white metal pockets w/brass links and pins, > which I thought unusual as opposed to all brass. BUT, exactly who the > heck they were is beyond me at the moment. However I am also very > positive that they a part of a known companies product line. > Alexander is probably one and Precision Scale, maybe Cal Scale....I > would have remembered something as hokey as link-n-pin couplers madw > by someone called Lincoln Pin. I once saw a classified ad in the > local newspaper for a 1963 Dodge truck described as a "cabin chassis" > instead of the correct cab and chassis. This was at least twenty > years ago but some things just manage to stick in the cobwebs of what > once was my mind. > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ > > wrote: > > > > I will be the first to tell you I don't know everything about > anything. > > Some areas I am quite knowledgeable in, others I have sequestered > > information in the brain bucket for a lot of decades. > > > > Question came up on another forum about couplers. > > This person mentioned "Lincoln Pins", which I immediately > recognized > > as a generally clueless spelling of "link and pin". > > Now this person claims there was an outfit called "Lincoln's Pins" > > that made white metal pockets with brass links and pins. > > I have never heard of said outfit, never seen that name, and so far > > neither has any of the old-timer staffers at MR. > > > > I canot imagine one outfit would make a living from making ONLY > link > > and pin couplings, but stranger things have happened. > > In larger scales, we get and use them from Trackside Details, and I > > think Ozark has them. All I can imagine is that these were one > product > > in a line (like CalScale). > > > > Any commentary? > > > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3524	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. In the box is a Lionel Geep. This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- through", cab is cast as part of the shell. Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not duals. So, the question is: I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end steps are mostly gone). Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the handrail stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. Just thought I'd check. I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot imagine they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3525	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

Original Athearn Geep had separate cab, and I think the horns were on the sides-- ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Question on old Athearn Geeps. I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. In the box is a Lionel Geep. This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- through", cab is cast as part of the shell. Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not duals. So, the question is: I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end steps are mostly gone). Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the handrail stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. Just thought I'd check. I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot imagine they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3526	From: donvdh	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

Dave - I guess you got that stuff then. Anything else particularly strange? Don V. ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 6:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Question on old Athearn Geeps. I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. In the box is a Lionel Geep. This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- through", cab is cast as part of the shell. Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not duals. So, the question is: I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end steps are mostly gone). Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the handrail stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. Just thought I'd check. I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot imagine they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3527	From: donvdh	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

I am going to sell 5 later production (white box) Lionel diesels 2 dummies. Also a Rail Video set which is almost new (2 diesels with set plus 2 I bought extra, don't know if the extras work).  If you're interested e-mail me at donvdh@... and I'll send you pictures. Don V.    ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 6:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Question on old Athearn Geeps. I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. In the box is a Lionel Geep. This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- through", cab is cast as part of the shell. Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not duals. So, the question is: I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end steps are mostly gone). Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the handrail stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. Just thought I'd check. I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot imagine they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3528	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

I e-mailed you! I figured you'd see the e-mail when you opened the computer to read the forums! Dave > > Dave - I guess you got that stuff then. Anything else particularly strange? Don V. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 6:33 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on old Athearn Geeps. > > > I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. > In the box is a Lionel Geep. > This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. > Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. > Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- > through", cab is cast as part of the shell. > Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not duals. > > So, the question is: > I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end steps > are mostly gone). > > Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? > Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? > I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the handrail > stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. > > Just thought I'd check. > I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot imagine > they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3529	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

It's hard to tell, but it sure looks like one piece. I'll check closer. The cab is just a hair shorter, and slightly mold-release angled, which is why I thought it was one piece (especially with no parting lines). Weird that is is such a close knock-off, yet the cab is molded in. Hard to believe they would have had a new mold made just to do the Lionel run, but stranger things have happened. Dave > > Original Athearn Geep had separate cab, and I think the horns were on the sides-- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 5:33 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on old Athearn Geeps. > > > I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. > In the box is a Lionel Geep. > This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. > Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. > Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- > through", cab is cast as part of the shell. > Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not duals. > > So, the question is: > I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end steps > are mostly gone). > > Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? > Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? > I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the handrail > stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. > > Just thought I'd check. > I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot imagine > they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3530	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 6:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Question on old Athearn Geeps. >I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. > In the box is a Lionel Geep. > This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. > Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. > Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- > through", cab is cast as part of the shell. > Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not duals. > > So, the question is: > I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end steps > are mostly gone). > > Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? > Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? > I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the handrail > stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. > > Just thought I'd check. > I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot imagine > they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. > > Thanks. > Dave I suspect this might actually be a NEWER version. When Lionel became Fundimensions (General Mills) they started getting chinese copies of their older Athearn production. (A lot of this junk was sold under the Bachmann name too). The older Athearn shell had the horns on the sides, fastened to the cab, the cab was separate and the dynamic brake blisters were separate castings. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3531	From: Larry	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

Pictures of Athearn GP9's. I believe these were made in 1957 Wow they have a golden anniverary this year. Larry http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/athearndiesels1957/166_G http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/athearndiesels1957/156_G --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 6:33 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on old Athearn Geeps. > > > >I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. > > In the box is a Lionel Geep. > > This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. > > Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. > > Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- > > through", cab is cast as part of the shell. > > Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not duals. > > > > So, the question is: > > I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end steps > > are mostly gone). > > > > Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? > > Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? > > I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the handrail > > stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. > > > > Just thought I'd check. > > I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot imagine > > they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > I suspect this might actually be a NEWER version. When Lionel became > Fundimensions (General Mills) they started getting chinese copies of their > older Athearn production. (A lot of this junk was sold under the Bachmann > name too). > > The older Athearn shell had the horns on the sides, fastened to the cab, the > cab was separate and the dynamic brake blisters were separate castings. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3532	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

Well, newer I don't think. The remains of the drive have a cast chassis (not quite like a dual- geared Geep), a plastic shaft on each end of the motor with a pulley built in, then top of truck section with a shaft with pulley in the center, spring belt like a Varney, two worms, to drive axle gears. I don't think it's newer. No dynamic blisters, either. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 6:33 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on old Athearn Geeps. > > > >I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. > > In the box is a Lionel Geep. > > This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. > > Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. > > Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- > > through", cab is cast as part of the shell. > > Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not duals. > > > > So, the question is: > > I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end steps > > are mostly gone). > > > > Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? > > Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? > > I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the handrail > > stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. > > > > Just thought I'd check. > > I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot imagine > > they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > I suspect this might actually be a NEWER version. When Lionel became > Fundimensions (General Mills) they started getting chinese copies of their > older Athearn production. (A lot of this junk was sold under the Bachmann > name too). > > The older Athearn shell had the horns on the sides, fastened to the cab, the > cab was separate and the dynamic brake blisters were separate castings. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3533	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry" <seekingho@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps. > Pictures of Athearn GP9's. I believe these were made in 1957 > Wow they have a golden anniverary this year. > > Larry > http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/athearndiesels1957/166_G > http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/athearndiesels1957/156_G > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: In the photos section on the group home page, go to the last page of albums, "zDon_Dellmann's stuff, Locomotives" and there's a GN original plastic frame shell on a Hobbytown chassis. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3534	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

could be that Lionel copied the Athearn shell--with the cab in place-- ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps. It's hard to tell, but it sure looks like one piece. I'll check closer. The cab is just a hair shorter, and slightly mold-release angled, which is why I thought it was one piece (especially with no parting lines). Weird that is is such a close knock-off, yet the cab is molded in. Hard to believe they would have had a new mold made just to do the Lionel run, but stranger things have happened. Dave > > Original Athearn Geep had separate cab, and I think the horns were on the sides-- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 5:33 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on old Athearn Geeps. > > > I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. > In the box is a Lionel Geep. > This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. > Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. > Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- > through", cab is cast as part of the shell. > Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not duals. > > So, the question is: > I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end steps > are mostly gone). > > Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? > Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? > I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the handrail > stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. > > Just thought I'd check. > I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot imagine > they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3535	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.

Could be. It is just so strange that it snaps onto an Athearn frame as it does. Those two offset holes in the sides are dead on. Still trying to figure out this drive system. Dave > could be that Lionel copied the Athearn shell--with the cab in place-- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 8:47 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps. > > > It's hard to tell, but it sure looks like one piece. > I'll check closer. > The cab is just a hair shorter, and slightly mold-release angled, > which is why I thought it was one piece (especially with no parting > lines). > Weird that is is such a close knock-off, yet the cab is molded in. > Hard to believe they would have had a new mold made just to do the > Lionel run, but stranger things have happened. > Dave > > > > > Original Athearn Geep had separate cab, and I think the horns were > on the sides-- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 5:33 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Question on old Athearn Geeps. > > > > > > I ended up with a bunch of Lionel stuff yesterday. > > In the box is a Lionel Geep. > > This is so obviously Athearn it isn't funny. > > Same holes to clip onto the frame bosses, all of it. > > Handrail stanchions are not drilled out, steps are not "see- > > through", cab is cast as part of the shell. > > Horns on side of hoods, not on top, and single headlight, not > duals. > > > > So, the question is: > > I have a 1957 Dual-geared Geep with a....poor GN shell (end > steps > > are mostly gone). > > > > Is this Lionel a representation of older Athearn shells? > > Would it be a better candidate for the dual-geared chassis? > > I can remove the "Built by Lionel" tag, and drill out the > handrail > > stanchions, no problem, and get some lenses for the headlights. > > > > Just thought I'd check. > > I cannot recall seeing this style Athearn shell, and cannot > imagine > > they would make a "new" mold for Lionel. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3536	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Lionel FA's

Don VDH sent me a box of stuff, Lionel FA chassis and shells, mostly in kit form. Since I do have some experience with these, I put them together. I have three complete "A" units, and a parts chassis. There is another plastic chassis, when I saw it I left it in the box, as I have seen enough plastic Bachmann chassis with pancake motors. Later, I pulled it out and stuck the unpowered truck back in, and realized the bottom of the fuel tank said "Lionel". Boy. They had all sorts of folks build stuff for them. That one is "parts". The Geep is another story. While I have posted the shell is a virtual ringer for a Lionel, there are differences. The chassis is die-cast, almost like the dual-geared 1957 Geep I have. The motor is mounted like an Athearn, looks like it has Athearn parentage. Plastic shafts with pulleys integral. Top of the trucks have a plate with a shaft, small pulley in the center, worms on the ends. There is a spring belt that fits Varney deluxe drives on each (I checked). The interesting part for me (discovery) would be to see the rest of the trucks, and see how it actually ran. Basically, 4 axle geared drive, with a spring belt to allow truck rotation. Somehow, in my younger days, I missed this one.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3537	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's

Take a good look at the trucks that come with a Lionel HO FA....oh, brother!   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Don VDH sent me a box of stuff, Lionel FA chassis and shells, mostly in kit form. Since I do have some experience with these, I put them together. I have three complete "A" units, and a parts chassis. There is another plastic chassis, when I saw it I left it in the box, as I have seen enough plastic Bachmann chassis with pancake motors. Later, I pulled it out and stuck the unpowered truck back in, and realized the bottom of the fuel tank said "Lionel". Boy. They had all sorts of folks build stuff for them. That one is "parts". The Geep is another story. While I have posted the shell is a virtual ringer for a Lionel, there are differences. The chassis is die-cast, almost like the dual-geared 1957 Geep I have. The motor is mounted like an Athearn, looks like it has Athearn parentage. Plastic shafts with pulleys integral. Top of the trucks have a plate with a shaft, small pulley in the center, worms on the ends. There is a spring belt that fits Varney deluxe drives on each (I checked). The interesting part for me (discovery) would be to see the rest of the trucks, and see how it actually ran. Basically, 4 axle geared drive, with a spring belt to allow truck rotation. Somehow, in my younger days, I missed this one. Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3538	From: donvdh	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's

Dave - Glad your having fun. Everyone - I'm going to list some more Lionel engines on auction tonight. Anyone want a couple of pictures first? They're all white box. 4 powered Fs (3 blue Santa Fe's, 1 Chessie. A  powered BN Geep (I think) with black handrails installed, a dummy red Santa Fe FA|FB set that's a serious veteran of childplay. The Chessie has one of Dave's mysterry plastic chassis installed. It runs well but no light installed. I don't have any that would fit. Don V     ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 7:51 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Lionel FA's Don VDH sent me a box of stuff, Lionel FA chassis and shells, mostly in kit form. Since I do have some experience with these, I put them together. I have three complete "A" units, and a parts chassis. There is another plastic chassis, when I saw it I left it in the box, as I have seen enough plastic Bachmann chassis with pancake motors. Later, I pulled it out and stuck the unpowered truck back in, and realized the bottom of the fuel tank said "Lionel". Boy. They had all sorts of folks build stuff for them. That one is "parts". The Geep is another story. While I have posted the shell is a virtual ringer for a Lionel, there are differences. The chassis is die-cast, almost like the dual-geared 1957 Geep I have. The motor is mounted like an Athearn, looks like it has Athearn parentage. Plastic shafts with pulleys integral. Top of the trucks have a plate with a shaft, small pulley in the center, worms on the ends. There is a spring belt that fits Varney deluxe drives on each (I checked). The interesting part for me (discovery) would be to see the rest of the trucks, and see how it actually ran. Basically, 4 axle geared drive, with a spring belt to allow truck rotation. Somehow, in my younger days, I missed this one.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3539	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's

Oh, I have. I've repaired them before. I also developed a "fix" for the brokenn tab syndrome on the bottom covers! I am just putting them together, gonna give them to my brother for "backup" use. So far, I haven't found much in the Lionel H0 line to impress me, and that goes back probably 50 years. Or close thereto. I sent a Lionel GS-4 to one of the guys on the list, bad armature, but good drivers, so he could fix one of his. My real interest lay in diecast steam and diesel, altho I only have 3 diecast diesels (Varney powered A, dummy B, and a PennLine mini). If I ever get the end beams, these two cars will be done, then I finish the slope sheets in the RedBall hopper, and my fleet of 14 freight cars is complete! > > Take a good look at the trucks that come with a Lionel HO FA....oh, brother! > > John > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Don VDH sent me a box of stuff, Lionel FA chassis and shells, mostly > in kit form. > Since I do have some experience with these, I put them together. > I have three complete "A" units, and a parts chassis. > There is another plastic chassis, when I saw it I left it in the > box, as I have seen enough plastic Bachmann chassis with pancake > motors. > > Later, I pulled it out and stuck the unpowered truck back in, and > realized the bottom of the fuel tank said "Lionel". > > Boy. > They had all sorts of folks build stuff for them. > > That one is "parts". > > The Geep is another story. > > While I have posted the shell is a virtual ringer for a Lionel, > there are differences. > > The chassis is die-cast, almost like the dual-geared 1957 Geep I > have. > The motor is mounted like an Athearn, looks like it has Athearn > parentage. > Plastic shafts with pulleys integral. > Top of the trucks have a plate with a shaft, small pulley in the > center, worms on the ends. > There is a spring belt that fits Varney deluxe drives on each (I > checked). > > The interesting part for me (discovery) would be to see the rest of > the trucks, and see how it actually ran. > > Basically, 4 axle geared drive, with a spring belt to allow truck > rotation. > > Somehow, in my younger days, I missed this one. > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3540	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's

Dear Curm,   Did you replace those EMD frames with Alco's? That's what I was referring to.   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Oh, I have. I've repaired them before. I also developed a "fix" for the brokenn tab syndrome on the bottom covers! I am just putting them together, gonna give them to my brother for "backup" use. So far, I haven't found much in the Lionel H0 line to impress me, and that goes back probably 50 years. Or close thereto. I sent a Lionel GS-4 to one of the guys on the list, bad armature, but good drivers, so he could fix one of his. My real interest lay in diecast steam and diesel, altho I only have 3 diecast diesels (Varney powered A, dummy B, and a PennLine mini). If I ever get the end beams, these two cars will be done, then I finish the slope sheets in the RedBall hopper, and my fleet of 14 freight cars is complete! > > Take a good look at the trucks that come with a Lionel HO FA....oh, brother! > > John > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote: > Don VDH sent me a box of stuff, Lionel FA chassis and shells, mostly > in kit form. > Since I do have some experience with these, I put them together. > I have three complete "A" units, and a parts chassis. > There is another plastic chassis, when I saw it I left it in the > box, as I have seen enough plastic Bachmann chassis with pancake > motors. > > Later, I pulled it out and stuck the unpowered truck back in, and > realized the bottom of the fuel tank said "Lionel". > > Boy. > They had all sorts of folks build stuff for them. > > That one is "parts". > > The Geep is another story. > > While I have posted the shell is a virtual ringer for a Lionel, > there are differences. > > The chassis is die-cast, almost like the dual-geared 1957 Geep I > have. > The motor is mounted like an Athearn, looks like it has Athearn > parentage. > Plastic shafts with pulleys integral. > Top of the trucks have a plate with a shaft, small pulley in the > center, worms on the ends. > There is a spring belt that fits Varney deluxe drives on each (I > checked). > > The interesting part for me (discovery) would be to see the rest of > the trucks, and see how it actually ran. > > Basically, 4 axle geared drive, with a spring belt to allow truck > rotation. > > Somehow, in my younger days, I missed this one. > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3541	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's

Oh, yeah, I knew on those. Unless you want a REAL task, since they are integral with the snap- on bottom cover.......that's why they're heading to my brother's place. Probably the EASIEST fix is some EMD shells...... > Dear Curm, > > Did you replace those EMD frames with Alco's? That's what I was referring to. > > John > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Oh, I have. > I've repaired them before. > I also developed a "fix" for the brokenn tab syndrome on the bottom > covers! > I am just putting them together, gonna give them to my brother > for "backup" use. > So far, I haven't found much in the Lionel H0 line to impress me, > and that goes back probably 50 years. > Or close thereto. > I sent a Lionel GS-4 to one of the guys on the list, bad armature, > but good drivers, so he could fix one of his. > My real interest lay in diecast steam and diesel, altho I only have > 3 diecast diesels (Varney powered A, dummy B, and a PennLine mini). > If I ever get the end beams, these two cars will be done, then I > finish the slope sheets in the RedBall hopper, and my fleet of 14 > freight cars is complete! > > > > > Take a good look at the trucks that come with a Lionel HO > FA....oh, brother! > > > > John > > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > > Don VDH sent me a box of stuff, Lionel FA chassis and > shells, mostly > > in kit form. > > Since I do have some experience with these, I put them together. > > I have three complete "A" units, and a parts chassis. > > There is another plastic chassis, when I saw it I left it in the > > box, as I have seen enough plastic Bachmann chassis with pancake > > motors. > > > > Later, I pulled it out and stuck the unpowered truck back in, and > > realized the bottom of the fuel tank said "Lionel". > > > > Boy. > > They had all sorts of folks build stuff for them. > > > > That one is "parts". > > > > The Geep is another story. > > > > While I have posted the shell is a virtual ringer for a Lionel, > > there are differences. > > > > The chassis is die-cast, almost like the dual-geared 1957 Geep I > > have. > > The motor is mounted like an Athearn, looks like it has Athearn > > parentage. > > Plastic shafts with pulleys integral. > > Top of the trucks have a plate with a shaft, small pulley in the > > center, worms on the ends. > > There is a spring belt that fits Varney deluxe drives on each (I > > checked). > > > > The interesting part for me (discovery) would be to see the rest > of > > the trucks, and see how it actually ran. > > > > Basically, 4 axle geared drive, with a spring belt to allow truck > > rotation. > > > > Somehow, in my younger days, I missed this one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > > always stay connected to friends. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3542	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's

I have one that I picked up cheap somewhere many years ago. It was immediately converted to a dummy and sits inside the engine house - not only was it not a good runner, but it looks pretty bad when compared to almost any other model of an FA. Seen through the "dirty" engine house windows, it doesn't look too bad. :-) Frankly, I would consider it an interesting piece of model history but wouldn't wast much time on it trying to make it look or run better. Mike John Barlow wrote: > > > *Take a good look at the trucks that come with a Lionel HO FA....oh, > brother!* > ** > *John* > > */curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...>/* wrote: > > Don VDH sent me a box of stuff, Lionel FA chassis and shells, mostly > in kit form. > Since I do have some experience with these, I put them together. > I have three complete "A" units, and a parts chassis. > There is another plastic chassis, when I saw it I left it in the > box, as I have seen enough plastic Bachmann chassis with pancake > motors. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3543	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's ( In Context )

There are two distinct versions of the Lionel FA units... the earlier one being a knock-off of the Hobbyline piece, ( which is the ugly cousin of the die cast English FA ), which I actually find preferable to the later version which more resembles a Train Miniature piece. Niether one of them are going to be the stars of anyone's layout without a replacement drive. I've used Hobbytown universal frames with a bit of luck, and used an Athearn F unit frame in another. I guess Lionel has some sort of bias against anything that might be mistaken as somewhat prototypical, so most of the time, unless arguments are to be provoked, a new paint job is in order. The Bachmann type drives that you only find in the best offerings that Lionel ever had in the HO market ( that's sarcasm ) were the FunDimensions era pieces produced by Kader. While they are representative of what was being produced during the Dark Period of HO Model Railroading... ( along with most TYCO efforts ), with the emphasis on flashy paint schemes and impractical accessories, they nonetheless represent a piece of Model Railroading history that should be seen as an attempt to bring younger people into the market, and maybe... just maybe, it served that purpose until the technology of production caught up with what was a market that now demands precise detail and prototypical dimensions with an emphasis on operation, ready to run... at minimal cost. -----Original Message----- From: idioticyahoo@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 5 May 2007 6:51 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Lionel FA's Don VDH sent me a box of stuff, Lionel FA chassis and shells, mostly in kit form. Since I do have some experience with these, I put them together. I have three complete "A" units, and a parts chassis. There is another plastic chassis, when I saw it I left it in the box, as I have seen enough plastic Bachmann chassis with pancake motors. Later, I pulled it out and stuck the unpowered truck back in, and realized the bottom of the fuel tank said "Lionel". Boy. They had all sorts of folks build stuff for them. That one is "parts". The Geep is another story. While I have posted the shell is a virtual ringer for a Lionel, there are differences. The chassis is die-cast, almost like the dual-geared 1957 Geep I have. The motor is mounted like an Athearn, looks like it has Athearn parentage. Plastic shafts with pulleys integral. Top of the trucks have a plate with a shaft, small pulley in the center, worms on the ends. There is a spring belt that fits Varney deluxe drives on each (I checked). The interesting part for me (discovery) would be to see the rest of the trucks, and see how it actually ran. Basically, 4 axle geared drive, with a spring belt to allow truck rotation. Somehow, in my younger days, I missed this one. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3544	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's

In several cases I have seen the "Pancake Motor" locos out under the Lionel name before they came out by Bachmann.  A couple of examples were the GS-4 and GP-30.  ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:51 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Lionel FA's Don VDH sent me a box of stuff, Lionel FA chassis and shells, mostly in kit form. Since I do have some experience with these, I put them together. I have three complete "A" units, and a parts chassis. There is another plastic chassis, when I saw it I left it in the box, as I have seen enough plastic Bachmann chassis with pancake motors. Later, I pulled it out and stuck the unpowered truck back in, and realized the bottom of the fuel tank said "Lionel". Boy. They had all sorts of folks build stuff for them. That one is "parts". The Geep is another story. While I have posted the shell is a virtual ringer for a Lionel, there are differences. The chassis is die-cast, almost like the dual-geared 1957 Geep I have. The motor is mounted like an Athearn, looks like it has Athearn parentage. Plastic shafts with pulleys integral. Top of the trucks have a plate with a shaft, small pulley in the center, worms on the ends. There is a spring belt that fits Varney deluxe drives on each (I checked). The interesting part for me (discovery) would be to see the rest of the trucks, and see how it actually ran. Basically, 4 axle geared drive, with a spring belt to allow truck rotation. Somehow, in my younger days, I missed this one.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3545	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's

Maybe. Won't argue with you. When I picked up this used GS-4 almost 20 years ago, it was DOA then, and Bachmann had a GS-4 of their own. I needed a part (cosmetic), and they could not seem to figure out what I needed, since they didn't realize it was a Kader product. I should have learned then about Bachmann. > In several cases I have seen the "Pancake Motor" locos out under the Lionel name before they came out by Bachmann. A couple of examples were the GS-4 and GP-30. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:51 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Lionel FA's > > > Don VDH sent me a box of stuff, Lionel FA chassis and shells, mostly > in kit form. > Since I do have some experience with these, I put them together. > I have three complete "A" units, and a parts chassis. > There is another plastic chassis, when I saw it I left it in the > box, as I have seen enough plastic Bachmann chassis with pancake > motors. > > Later, I pulled it out and stuck the unpowered truck back in, and > realized the bottom of the fuel tank said "Lionel". > > Boy. > They had all sorts of folks build stuff for them. > > That one is "parts". > > The Geep is another story. > > While I have posted the shell is a virtual ringer for a Lionel, > there are differences. > > The chassis is die-cast, almost like the dual-geared 1957 Geep I > have. > The motor is mounted like an Athearn, looks like it has Athearn > parentage. > Plastic shafts with pulleys integral. > Top of the trucks have a plate with a shaft, small pulley in the > center, worms on the ends. > There is a spring belt that fits Varney deluxe drives on each (I > checked). > > The interesting part for me (discovery) would be to see the rest of > the trucks, and see how it actually ran. > > Basically, 4 axle geared drive, with a spring belt to allow truck > rotation. > > Somehow, in my younger days, I missed this one. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3546	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

Does anyone out there know what year Mantua discontinued the vintage brass and cast Mogul kits?  I've got one here that looks factory sealed, has nickel drivers, and a PM type motor with nylon worm & drive gears.  I can't seem to locate an accurate date to see what's up with this one. Dan B.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3547	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

Check your e-mail > Does anyone out there know what year Mantua discontinued the vintage brass and cast Mogul kits? > I've got one here that looks factory sealed, has nickel drivers, and a PM type motor with nylon worm & drive gears. I can't seem to locate an accurate date to see what's up with this one. > > Dan B. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3548	From: cnj999	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Yardbird Trains" <danrbush@...> wrote: > > Does anyone out there know what year Mantua discontinued the vintage brass and cast Mogul kits? > I've got one here that looks factory sealed, has nickel drivers, and a PM type motor with nylon worm & drive gears. I can't seem to locate an accurate date to see what's up with this one. > Dan - Assuming that you are referring to Mantua's "8-Ball Mogul", then its last listing as part of the company's regular line would be late 1957, along with the Belle and Goat. However, this trio was offered in 1958 and 1959 in special, limited-run, batches. There was a final miniscule run of just the Belle and Goat in 1960, with no mention being made of the Mogul. For the history of the entire line of early Mantua engines, see my article "Classic Mantua - The Master Model Builder's Locomotive Series" in the July 1990 RMC. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3549	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

Didn't realize that you were the author of that article! It has been an inspiration in my vintage HO collecting. I came of age in model railroading just as those early Mantua locos were being dropped from production. They appeared in all the magazine photos of the time, but I never got one (until eBay came along of course!) Belated congratulations (17 years late) on a superb article. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cnj999" <jbortle@...> wrote: > > Dan - Assuming that you are referring to Mantua's "8-Ball Mogul", > then its last listing as part of the company's regular line would be > late 1957, along with the Belle and Goat. However, this trio was > offered in 1958 and 1959 in special, limited-run, batches. There was > a final miniscule run of just the Belle and Goat in 1960, with no > mention being made of the Mogul. > > For the history of the entire line of early Mantua engines, see my > article "Classic Mantua - The Master Model Builder's Locomotive > Series" in the July 1990 RMC. > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3550	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

Larry has a 1962 catalog listed on his site that shows limited runs of the Belle, Mogul, and Yard Goat, all showing Mantua couplers. http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuabrochure1962pg06. jpg > > > > Does anyone out there know what year Mantua discontinued the > vintage brass and cast Mogul kits? > > I've got one here that looks factory sealed, has nickel drivers, > and a PM type motor with nylon worm & drive gears. I can't seem to > locate an accurate date to see what's up with this one. > > > > Dan - Assuming that you are referring to Mantua's "8-Ball Mogul", > then its last listing as part of the company's regular line would be > late 1957, along with the Belle and Goat. However, this trio was > offered in 1958 and 1959 in special, limited-run, batches. There was > a final miniscule run of just the Belle and Goat in 1960, with no > mention being made of the Mogul. > > For the history of the entire line of early Mantua engines, see my > article "Classic Mantua - The Master Model Builder's Locomotive > Series" in the July 1990 RMC. > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3551	From: donvdh	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

curmudgeon - I found 2 dual shaft Lionel motors I forgot I had. Brand new old stock from an old Lionel dealer\hobby store. Also an Athearn dual drive no flywheels Geep (I think) chassis with motor, drive trucks and drive shafts. No idea if it works, rear truck is removed and attached with a rubber Band. Same deal. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3552	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

Thanks for the great info! I believe I've got my question answered.  I'll also be going through my RMC's to find that article again.  I vaguely remember reading it in the past.   Thanks again!   Dan   ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul Larry has a 1962 catalog listed on his site that shows limited runs of the Belle, Mogul, and Yard Goat, all showing Mantua couplers. http://hoseeker. net/mantuatycoca rinstructions/ mantuabrochure19 62pg06. jpg > > > > Does anyone out there know what year Mantua discontinued the > vintage brass and cast Mogul kits? > > I've got one here that looks factory sealed, has nickel drivers, > and a PM type motor with nylon worm & drive gears. I can't seem to > locate an accurate date to see what's up with this one. > > > > Dan - Assuming that you are referring to Mantua's "8-Ball Mogul", > then its last listing as part of the company's regular line would be > late 1957, along with the Belle and Goat. However, this trio was > offered in 1958 and 1959 in special, limited-run, batches. There was > a final miniscule run of just the Belle and Goat in 1960, with no > mention being made of the Mogul. > > For the history of the entire line of early Mantua engines, see my > article "Classic Mantua - The Master Model Builder's Locomotive > Series" in the July 1990 RMC. > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3553	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

Same deal. Dave > curmudgeon - I found 2 dual shaft Lionel motors I forgot I had. Brand new old stock from an old Lionel dealer\hobby store. Also an Athearn dual drive no flywheels Geep (I think) chassis with motor, drive trucks and drive shafts. No idea if it works, rear truck is removed and attached with a rubber Band. Same deal. Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3554	From: donvdh	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

Curmudgeon - Need your address and e-mail again. Please send it to donvdh@.... Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3555	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

sent it in an e-mail this morning. I'll do it again. Dave > Curmudgeon - Need your address and e-mail again. Please send it to donvdh@... Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3556	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 5/8/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

Got it... Thanks a bunch!   Dan    ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul Check your e-mail > Does anyone out there know what year Mantua discontinued the vintage brass and cast Mogul kits? > I've got one here that looks factory sealed, has nickel drivers, and a PM type motor with nylon worm & drive gears. I can't seem to locate an accurate date to see what's up with this one. > > Dan B. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3557	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

You don't happen to have that one driveshaft, do you? Dave > > Got it... Thanks a bunch! > > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:56 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul > > > Check your e-mail > > > Does anyone out there know what year Mantua discontinued the vintage > brass and cast Mogul kits? > > I've got one here that looks factory sealed, has nickel drivers, and > a PM type motor with nylon worm & drive gears. I can't seem to locate > an accurate date to see what's up with this one. > > > > Dan B. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3558	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 5/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

Which driveshaft are we talking about Dave?   Dan    ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 11:17 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul You don't happen to have that one driveshaft, do you? Dave > > Got it... Thanks a bunch! > > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:56 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul > > > Check your e-mail > > > Does anyone out there know what year Mantua discontinued the vintage > brass and cast Mogul kits? > > I've got one here that looks factory sealed, has nickel drivers, and > a PM type motor with nylon worm & drive gears. I can't seem to locate > an accurate date to see what's up with this one. > > > > Dan B. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3559	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul

Posted wrong post! Dave > Which driveshaft are we talking about Dave? > > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 11:17 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul > > > You don't happen to have that one driveshaft, do you? > Dave > > > > > Got it... Thanks a bunch! > > > > Dan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: curmudgeon > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:56 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul > > > > > > Check your e-mail > > > > > Does anyone out there know what year Mantua discontinued the > vintage > > brass and cast Mogul kits? > > > I've got one here that looks factory sealed, has nickel > drivers, and > > a PM type motor with nylon worm & drive gears. I can't seem to > locate > > an accurate date to see what's up with this one. > > > > > > Dan B. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3560	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/13/2007
Subject: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.

The early Varney/Lindsay 7-pole V2 gear-head motors had one motor brush inherently grounded to the motor frame, which by extension is firmly grounded through its integral gear box to the track. This is, of cours, a condition that so far makes it all but impossible to convert the motor to DCC control. These integral V-2 drives are extremely smooth and quiet, as might be expected- and are certainly comparable to the best of current "can motor" drives. My question: has anyone else confronted this issue with these unique Varney motor/gear sets, and if so, has anyone successfully electrically isolated the offending motor brush? Denny

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3561	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/13/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.

Never having had one of these in my fingers, I went searching. Is this the motor?: http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionvarney/v21596amotor.jpg If so, one of the washers with "ears" that the brush spring attaches to is centered in the plastic/bakelite houding and the screw misses the cener hole contact. There is an insulator washer outboard of that, then the brush spring mount that grounds through the main screw. If you insulate THAT part with another insulated washer, and attach your lead to another metal terminal (washer with an ear) sticking out the side, and make sure the holes in the center are big enough to clear contact with the screw, you have just isolated the brushes from ground. I'll have to check with NASA, but it doesn't look like rocket science (did I actually say that?). I'll bet the one round washer at the outer end (C-1807) could be removed, another wire contact washer terminal like 1359 inserted in it's place (make one from a terminal end), and another insulator washer like 1367 outboard of that, with the removed C-1807 outboard of that to keep the screw head from eating into the insulator, and you'd be set. If the screw is too short, get a longer one? Dave > The early Varney/Lindsay 7-pole V2 gear-head motors had one motor brush inherently > grounded to the motor frame, which by extension is firmly grounded through its integral > gear box to the track. This is, of cours, a condition that so far makes it all but impossible to > convert the motor to DCC control. These integral V-2 drives are extremely smooth and quiet, > as might be expected- and are certainly comparable to the best of current "can motor" > drives. > > My question: has anyone else confronted this issue with these unique Varney motor/gear > sets, and if so, has anyone successfully electrically isolated the offending motor brush? > > Denny >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3562	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/13/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.

And the more I look at that photo breakdown, the more convinced I am that I have in fact had on at some time in the last 55 years of modelling in my hands. No idea where....... Also, the V-2 and V-3 are identical except for the output housing..... Dave > Never having had one of these in my fingers, I went searching. > Is this the motor?: > http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionvarney/v21596amotor.jpg > > If so, one of the washers with "ears" that the brush spring attaches > to is centered in the plastic/bakelite houding and the screw misses > the cener hole contact. There is an insulator washer outboard of > that, then the brush spring mount that grounds through the main > screw. > If you insulate THAT part with another insulated washer, and attach > your lead to another metal terminal (washer with an ear) sticking > out the side, and make sure the holes in the center are big enough > to clear contact with the screw, you have just isolated the brushes > from ground. > > I'll have to check with NASA, but it doesn't look like rocket > science (did I actually say that?). > > I'll bet the one round washer at the outer end (C-1807) could be > removed, another wire contact washer terminal like 1359 inserted in > it's place (make one from a terminal end), and another insulator > washer like 1367 outboard of that, with the removed C-1807 outboard > of that to keep the screw head from eating into the insulator, and > you'd be set. > If the screw is too short, get a longer one? > > Dave > > > The early Varney/Lindsay 7-pole V2 gear-head motors had one motor > brush inherently > > grounded to the motor frame, which by extension is firmly grounded > through its integral > > gear box to the track. This is, of cours, a condition that so > far makes it all but impossible to > > convert the motor to DCC control. These integral V-2 drives are > extremely smooth and quiet, > > as might be expected- and are certainly comparable to the best of > current "can motor" > > drives. > > > > My question: has anyone else confronted this issue with these > unique Varney motor/gear > > sets, and if so, has anyone successfully electrically isolated > the offending motor brush? > > > > Denny > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3563	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.

Denny, While I think the idea of using the isolated brush terminal is probably the best (wish I had read about it sooner!) I have added DCC to another model with a Lindsay motor drive that was grounded to the frame by placing a thin strip of insulating tape (from Radio Shack) under the motor and using a nylon screw in place of the metal one to hold the motor to the frame. I was concerned about the bronze worm, but the gear on the axle was fibre so it kept its electrical isolation. The Lindsay 7-pole motor was the can motor of its day and other than high current draw is still right up there in terms of smoothness which is why I went to the trouble to keep it. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "docdenny34" <danspach@...> wrote: > > > The early Varney/Lindsay 7-pole V2 gear-head motors had one motor brush inherently > grounded to the motor frame, which by extension is firmly grounded through its integral > gear box to the track. This is, of cours, a condition that so far makes it all but impossible to > convert the motor to DCC control. These integral V-2 drives are extremely smooth and quiet, > as might be expected- and are certainly comparable to the best of current "can motor" > drives. > > My question: has anyone else confronted this issue with these unique Varney motor/gear > sets, and if so, has anyone successfully electrically isolated the offending motor brush? > > Denny >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3564	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.

Matt, thanks for the helpful comments. Where the V2 is different from the usual Lindsay is that the motor frame is integral to the entire gear casing enclosure, which rides on the drive axle. Insulating this entire assembly would be pretty daunting. I have a number of the Lindsay motors, but have not yet attempted to convert any of them for DCC use. A fortunate development over the past few years are the premium decoders  (the xx3 Digitrax series in particular) that will commonly handle these older motors (that is, short of an extended complete stall or lock-up). The amperage draw can be minimized by re-magnetizing (almost all need it by now!). Denny Denny, While I think the idea of using the isolated brush terminal is probably the best (wish I had read about it sooner!) I have added DCC to another model with a Lindsay motor drive that was grounded to the frame by placing a thin strip of insulating tape (from Radio Shack) under the motor and using a nylon screw in place of the metal one to hold the motor to the frame. I was concerned about the bronze worm, but the gear on the axle was fibre so it kept its electrical isolation. The Lindsay 7-pole motor was the can motor of its day and other than high current draw is still right up there in terms of smoothness which is why I went to the trouble to keep it. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "docdenny34" <danspach@...> wrote: > > > The early Varney/Lindsay 7-pole V2 gear-head motors had one motor brush inherently > grounded to the motor frame, which by extension is firmly grounded through its integral > gear box to the track. This is, of cours, a condition that so far makes it all but impossible to > convert the motor to DCC control. These integral V-2 drives are extremely smooth and quiet, > as might be expected- and are certainly comparable to the best of current "can motor" > drives. > > My question: has anyone else confronted this issue with these unique Varney motor/gear > sets, and if so, has anyone successfully electrically isolated the offending motor brush? > > Denny > -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3565	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Isolating Varney V2 motor brushes. Was: Varney V2 motor and DC

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: ...V-2 and V-3 are identical except for the output .... Is this the motor?: > > http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionvarney/v21596amotor.jpg It is. Thank you!! > > If so, one of the washers with "ears" that the brush spring > >attaches to is centered in the plastic/bakelite houding and the screw > >misses the cener hole contact. There is an insulator washer outboard of >>that, and then the brush spring mount that grounds through the main > > screw. > > If you insulate THAT part with another insulated washer, and attach > > your lead to another metal terminal (washer with an ear) sticking > > out the side, and make sure the holes in the center are big enough > > to clear contact with the screw, you have just isolated the brushes > > from ground. Well, you had it just right. I insulated the right hand brush lugged-washer mount from its contact with the grounding central screw by separating it from the outboard 1807 metal washer with a red fibre "cupped" washer (which by its very nature also keeps the brush-washer from contacting the screw). I fabricated a new soldering point (substituting for the needed lugged washer that I did not have) for the newly isolated brush by making another "lugged" washer out of a common tinned copper electrical soldering lug. I finished everything off by substituting a phenolic washer for the metal 1807 washer on the diagram. When going through this exercise, I had an opportunity to really look at this assembly, and realize anew how very much ahead of their time Lindsay and Varney were when they designed this very sophisticated and very high quality integrated motor drive after the war. Torque arm gearhead design; 7 pole motor; ball bearings; steel worm, and brass gear. The motor is not fastened to the frame, but, courtesy of gravity alone, instead simply reclines on a folded phosphor bronze spring! The cupped red fibre washer came out of a stash of ancient new old-stock Walthers parts envelopes c. 1947. The motor and this 2-8-2 seems almost to have never been used. All brass is still shiny, the commutator clean, and the gear box was clean and bone dry. Does anyone know just how long Varney produced this Super 2-8-2 with the Pacific boiler? My current working guess is that it might have been only a year or so before they replaced the boiler with the newer zamac casting of different design -i.e. c. 1947-49? I will report more as this project proceeds. Denny

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3566	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.

Is that the Denny Anspach who was in the West Bay club back in the 1960's? Can't be too many--I'm retired to the family farm near Yreka, building an On3 layout, and working with the Yreka Western "Blue Goose" train.  Glenn Joesten ----- Original Message ----- From: Denny Anspach To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 8:42 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders. Matt, thanks for the helpful comments. Where the V2 is different from the usual Lindsay is that the motor frame is integral to the entire gear casing enclosure, which rides on the drive axle. Insulating this entire assembly would be pretty daunting. I have a number of the Lindsay motors, but have not yet attempted to convert any of them for DCC use. A fortunate development over the past few years are the premium decoders  (the xx3 Digitrax series in particular) that will commonly handle these older motors (that is, short of an extended complete stall or lock-up). The amperage draw can be minimized by re-magnetizing (almost all need it by now!). Denny Denny, While I think the idea of using the isolated brush terminal is probably the best (wish I had read about it sooner!) I have added DCC to another model with a Lindsay motor drive that was grounded to the frame by placing a thin strip of insulating tape (from Radio Shack) under the motor and using a nylon screw in place of the metal one to hold the motor to the frame. I was concerned about the bronze worm, but the gear on the axle was fibre so it kept its electrical isolation. The Lindsay 7-pole motor was the can motor of its day and other than high current draw is still right up there in terms of smoothness which is why I went to the trouble to keep it. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "docdenny34" <danspach@...> wrote: > > > The early Varney/Lindsay 7-pole V2 gear-head motors had one motor brush inherently > grounded to the motor frame, which by extension is firmly grounded through its integral > gear box to the track. This is, of cours, a condition that so far makes it all but impossible to > convert the motor to DCC control. These integral V-2 drives are extremely smooth and quiet, > as might be expected- and are certainly comparable to the best of current "can motor" > drives. > > My question: has anyone else confronted this issue with these unique Varney motor/gear > sets, and if so, has anyone successfully electrically isolated the offending motor brush? > > Denny > -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3567	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.

Denny, Having looked over the drawings of the V-3 motor and gearbox more closely I would say that insulating it from the frame as I was able to do with the Lindsay motor would be impossible. So the isolated brush is really the only option. My experience has been on some older Kemtron locos that had the small Lindsay motor (the same one used in some of the diesel drives) and your problem set is well out of my league! Also, your remagnetizing recommendation is well worth considering by anyone having an older locomotive that runs hot. I have had two older motors remagnetized and it is well worth the cost. The current draw dropped in half! The guy I used to go for remagnetizing motor magnets is no longer in the business so if anyone knows someone who is actively doing that, I would appreciate getting some contact info. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > Matt, thanks for the helpful comments. > > Where the V2 is different from the usual Lindsay is that the motor > frame is integral to the entire gear casing enclosure, which rides on > the drive axle. Insulating this entire assembly would be pretty > daunting. > > I have a number of the Lindsay motors, but have not yet attempted to > convert any of them for DCC use. A fortunate development over the > past few years are the premium decoders (the xx3 Digitrax series in > particular) that will commonly handle these older motors (that is, > short of an extended complete stall or lock-up). The amperage draw > can be minimized by re-magnetizing (almost all need it by now!). > > Denny >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3568	From: erieberk	Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Early Super Mikado Boiler -- Was: Isolating Varney V2 motor bru

Denny, Along with your comment that your Varney Super 2-8-2 seemingly to "almost never have been used", I'm presuming that your following statement of "All the brass is still shiny" is in reference to the model's brass (cast bronze) boiler. Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not quite sure if maybe you said this with the internal parts of the V-2 motor in mind. If, as I'm thinking, your Super Mikado has the cast bronze boiler, this would have had to be converted by a previous modeler/owner of your engine as that boiler (Varney Part #400 -- 1940 & '41 Catalog; 1939 Catalog not showing it separately) was produced only pre-War, and then it was phased out by 1941 in favor of the pre-War cast lead Pacific/Mikado boiler. The post-War Super Mikados used the improved (with some cast on detail) Part #1850-D cast lead boiler up until 1949, when they then used the brass boiler -- Part #1973, used also for the Economy Hudson and Berkshire kits, until 1951. The use of the cast lead #1850-D boiler was resumed from early 1951 to 1953 due to brass shortage during the Korean War. After this war, the brass #1973 boiler was again used. So if your engine has the cast bronze (Southern Pacific type) Pacific boiler, it could have been converted to this at anytime, as it never came with it originally. Or at least, it wasn't supposed to; although I suppose it could have been included in a post-War kit such as yours if it were found that there were still some surplus stock of them hanging around. This would not seem probable though since they went to cast lead in 1941, but then anything's possible even if not likely. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "docdenny34" <danspach@...> wrote: > > > When going through this exercise, I had an opportunity to really look at this assembly, and > realize anew how very much ahead of their time Lindsay and Varney were when they > designed this very sophisticated and very high quality integrated motor drive after the war. > Torque arm gearhead design; 7 pole motor; ball bearings; steel worm, and brass gear. > The motor is not fastened to the frame, but, courtesy of gravity alone, instead simply > reclines on a folded phosphor bronze spring! > > The cupped red fibre washer came out of a stash of ancient new old- stock Walthers parts > envelopes c. 1947. > > The motor and this 2-8-2 seems almost to have never been used. All brass is still shiny, > the commutator clean, and the gear box was clean and bone dry. > > Does anyone know just how long Varney produced this Super 2-8-2 with the Pacific > boiler? My current working guess is that it might have been only a year or so before they > replaced the boiler with the newer zamac casting of different design -i.e. c. 1947-49? > > I will report more as this project proceeds. > > Denny >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3569	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.

Glenn Joesten inquires- Is that the Denny Anspach who was in the West Bay club [Menlo Park, CA] back in the 1960's? It is, Glenn, and I remember you well. I still have all of my favorite models from those years (1957-64), including many from the finest modelers in that club of that era (now passed on) that I have purposefully sought out over the intervening years. Those alone make up a pretty fine historical collection that show pretty clearly that the modelers of that age had nothing whatsoever to be ashamed about. The finest of these models are destined the permanent collections of the California State Railroad Museum, I will say more in an off-line post. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3570	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/16/2007
Subject: Re: Early Super Mikado Boiler -- Was: Isolating Varney V2 motor brus

Ray inquires as to whether or not my Varney 2-8-2 had a brass boiler. It does not, and I can see where my comments could have been understood to indicate that it was brass. The cast boiler is made up of a lead-alloy. As most of you know, the boiler I am referring to is the same boiler that Varney provided with his Pacifics, a boiler that is a pretty good representation of an SP P-7 Pacific (or similar). However, the same boiler is no where a good representation for any prototype Mikado (especially the SP, and certainly not the USRA). Moreover, IMHO, it perches somewhat awkwardly somewhat elevated on the Varney Mikado chassis, the perception being somewhat magnified when the locomotive is placed next to either brass USRA Mikes[Akane and Overland Milwaukee Road L3s]), or next to its own sister Super Pacific (which seems to hold its own in this regard quite well!). I wonder whether this is one of the reasons why Varney moved to a new boiler casting. Also noted is that all of the driver wheels aside from the main drivers are seriously under-gauge, a new experience for me with Varney (heretofore, I have always found that their pre-1950 wheels could almost always be counted to be squarely in gauge). As a last exercise before turning in last night, I put 40 cars on its tail (mostly "collector" cars), and the Varney Mike walked around the layout with all of its curves and grades for an hour without a single hesitation. This is more than could be either said for, nor expected with the brass locomotives. Denny Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3571	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: Varney cereal car

Attachments : Just rehabed this Varney stock car, believe it was obtained from a Kix cereal promotion when I was in high school. It has been relettered along the way and now sports P2K wheels and KD 5's. There should also be a gon, hopper and boxcar in a box somewhere under the layout. Different E-mail raul@... Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3572	From: rcjge	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Hi-F Athearn variations

Hey Guys: Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive variations? I know of the: Hustler RDC's F-7A GP7? Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's for any/all that would be fantastic! -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3573	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

This is going long way back, but I seem to recall some kind of streamlined "rocket car" with no prototype that was simply intended as a competitor to the slot cars. Or maybe it used an airplane type propeller? I don't think it was around very long. Mike rcjge wrote: > > > Hey Guys: > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > variations? > > I know of the: > > Hustler > RDC's > F-7A > GP7? > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3574	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Group,   I recall something along that line...inspired by a 1930's German Opel design, I believe (could have been an Zeppelin oddity. Marklin offered something akin to that years ago.) Whatever, try "Googling" the Athearn Model Railroadm Hi-F as a subject, and I think thery'll allude to some other companies' pieces with that type of drive.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: This is going long way back, but I seem to recall some kind of streamlined "rocket car" with no prototype that was simply intended as a competitor to the slot cars. Or maybe it used an airplane type propeller? I don't think it was around very long. Mike rcjge wrote: > > > Hey Guys: > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > variations? > > I know of the: > > Hustler > RDC's > F-7A > GP7? > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > -Gareth We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3575	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

There are MANY different liveries not to mention that there were Athearn shells used by many others - Lionel, PennLine, hobbytown - to name just a few. Aside from the list you have I don't know of any other variations. Did you know that Pittman did a replacement power swap for the F-7 and the GP7? There is also a gear driven conversion for the Hustler made by Grandt (works well but is a real pain to get it installed correctly. And last but not least, there is a diecast box cab variation for the Hustler made by Cary Locomotive works (works well with the Grandt conversion - and pulls like h*** because of the heavy die cast cab). Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <rcjge@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > variations? > > I know of the: > > Hustler > RDC's > F-7A > GP7? > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3576	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Atlas made propeller driven racers, I had two of them at one time,  They doulc really fly.   Roger Aultman       ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Sloane To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 7:40 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hi-F Athearn variations This is going long way back, but I seem to recall some kind of streamlined "rocket car" with no prototype that was simply intended as a competitor to the slot cars. Or maybe it used an airplane type propeller? I don't think it was around very long. Mike rcjge wrote: > > > Hey Guys: > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > variations? > > I know of the: > > Hustler > RDC's > F-7A > GP7? > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3577	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

There was supposed to have been a Pacific 462 steam engine, official guide to Athearn Model trains lists it.  It was apparently poor  quality and may never have made production.  Also the Rectifier used Hi F, possibly on a GP7/9 frame.   Wobbly913 rcjge <rcjge@...> wrote: Hey Guys: Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive variations? I know of the: Hustler RDC's F-7A GP7? Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's for any/all that would be fantastic! -Gareth Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3578	From: herb1013	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

>>>>>>>>Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive variations?<<<<<<<<<<   Here are the Hi-Fs I have   Hustler Red &White GP-9 ATSF black & white freight F-7A ATSF passenger & blue freight F-7B ATSF "                                        " RDC1 ATSF & NH                 Herb

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3579	From: rcjge	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Hi: I have a NIB Cary Box cab conversion and two Ernst Gear sets for the Hustlers (Blunt) Forgot about the rectifier. Any others!? -Gareth - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> wrote: > > There are MANY different liveries not to mention that > there were Athearn shells used by many others - Lionel, PennLine, > hobbytown - to name just a few. Aside from the > list you have I don't know of any other variations. > Did you know that Pittman did a replacement power > swap for the F-7 and the GP7? There is also a gear driven > conversion for the Hustler made by Grandt (works well but > is a real pain to get it installed correctly. > > And last but not least, there is a diecast box cab variation > for the Hustler made by Cary Locomotive works (works well with > the Grandt conversion - and pulls like h*** because of the > heavy die cast cab). > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <rcjge@> wrote: > > > > Hey Guys: > > > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > > variations? > > > > I know of the: > > > > Hustler > > RDC's > > F-7A > > GP7? > > > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > > > -Gareth > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3580	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

I never saw the Pacific either, but I have about 6 or 7 of the rectifiers... (5-6 NH & 1 PRR) they are on the GP 7/9 frame.. Sean Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: There was supposed to have been a Pacific 462 steam engine, official guide to Athearn Model trains lists it.  It was apparently poor  quality and may never have made production.  Also the Rectifier used Hi F, possibly on a GP7/9 frame.   Wobbly913 rcjge <rcjge@yahoo. ca> wrote: Hey Guys: Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive variations? I know of the: Hustler RDC's F-7A GP7? Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's for any/all that would be fantastic! -Gareth Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3581	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

I am currently selling a Hustler on eBay with the conversion... If anyone cares to look at it   330120677997   Or I can post pictures...   Sean oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: There are MANY different liveries not to mention that there were Athearn shells used by many others - Lionel, PennLine, hobbytown - to name just a few. Aside from the list you have I don't know of any other variations. Did you know that Pittman did a replacement power swap for the F-7 and the GP7? There is also a gear driven conversion for the Hustler made by Grandt (works well but is a real pain to get it installed correctly. And last but not least, there is a diecast box cab variation for the Hustler made by Cary Locomotive works (works well with the Grandt conversion - and pulls like h*** because of the heavy die cast cab). Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "rcjge" <rcjge@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > variations? > > I know of the: > > Hustler > RDC's > F-7A > GP7? > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > -Gareth > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3582	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

The 462 Pacific did make it to production. It was the only Athearn branded loco that wasn't Hi-f powered. Seems to me it appeared 1960-62. Looked ok but was like almost any other Pacific. The only advantage was that it was relatively inexpensive. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote: > > There was supposed to have been a Pacific 462 steam engine, official guide to Athearn Model trains lists it. It was apparently poor quality and may never have made production. Also the Rectifier used Hi F, possibly on a GP7/9 frame. > > Wobbly913 > > rcjge <rcjge@...> wrote: > Hey Guys: > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > variations? > > I know of the: > > Hustler > RDC's > F-7A > GP7? > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > -Gareth > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3583	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

I did go look at it. Nice looking drive, but it would not seem right to see a Hustler not going around the layout at 200 mph!!!! I love that about the HI F drives in general!!   Wobbly913 sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: I am currently selling a Hustler on eBay with the conversion... If anyone cares to look at it   330120677997   Or I can post pictures...   Sean oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote: There are MANY different liveries not to mention that there were Athearn shells used by many others - Lionel, PennLine, hobbytown - to name just a few. Aside from the list you have I don't know of any other variations. Did you know that Pittman did a replacement power swap for the F-7 and the GP7? There is also a gear driven conversion for the Hustler made by Grandt (works well but is a real pain to get it installed correctly. And last but not least, there is a diecast box cab variation for the Hustler made by Cary Locomotive works (works well with the Grandt conversion - and pulls like h*** because of the heavy die cast cab). Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "rcjge" <rcjge@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > variations? > > I know of the: > > Hustler > RDC's > F-7A > GP7? > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > -Gareth > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3584	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?

After some time pleasantly reviewing and re-reviewing the earliest issues of both THE MODEL RAILROADER and MODEL CRAFTSMAN, it seemed increasingly clear to me that Frank Taylor's "Taylor-Built" Milwaukee Road F6a 4-6-4 Baltic was apparently the first commercial American-profile locomotive kit actually available to the American market in HO (c. October 1935). Is this true? (Walthers bought the project from Taylor before that year was out, and hired Taylor as well.). The Baltic is a pretty impressive and unusual first locomotive for a struggling new scale, certainly not the usual simple 0-4-0 that one would usually expect to stake out such a position. I wonder whether other listers picked up the factual errors in Keith Wills' RMC article on prewar Varney? Although I read his columns always with interest, I personally have picked up too many factual errors and unsubstantiated conclusions for the column to continue to have anything but maximum mid-range credibility for me. Does anyone know him? Is he comfortable talking to anyone else besides himself on these subjects? Does he know enough other knowledgeable people, or have access to enough written materials, that he can indeed perform routine fact checking? Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3585	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

The "Standard Guide to Athearn Model Trains" has a couple photos of the Atlas "Turbo Express Racer" made by Athearn.   It says it was early 1960's and used a Hustler  "hi-F" rubber band chassis.  The box art says "The whirling propeller drives this car at great speeds".  The view of the underside shows the "Athearn Inc." name in the casting and no rubber bands are installed which would make sense given the box art claims.   Chuck K.     ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 6:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hi-F Athearn variations Group,   I recall something along that line...inspired by a 1930's German Opel design, I believe (could have been an Zeppelin oddity. Marklin offered something akin to that years ago.) Whatever, try "Googling" the Athearn Model Railroadm Hi-F as a subject, and I think thery'll allude to some other companies' pieces with that type of drive.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Mike Sloane <mikesloane@verizon. net> wrote: This is going long way back, but I seem to recall some kind of streamlined "rocket car" with no prototype that was simply intended as a competitor to the slot cars. Or maybe it used a n airplane type propeller? I don't think it was around very long. Mike rcjge wrote: > > > Hey Guys: > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > variations? > > I know of the: > > Hustler > RDC's > F-7A > GP7? > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > -Gareth We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3586	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Joe- Granted, it's early, had a rough day yesterday, but I am missing something here. By '62, they had long since had the dual-geared Geep (57), the 0-4-2T Lil' Monster, and I thought the early Tower Drives were out before '62. Dave > The 462 Pacific did make it to production. It was the only > Athearn branded loco that wasn't Hi-f powered. Seems to > me it appeared 1960-62. Joe O'Loughlin >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3587	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

The Athearn book says that the early Pacifics were HiF powered.  (That seems like it would be interesting to look at.)   The table showing road names and types shows HiF for 1959 and geared for 1961.   Below the table It says "The 4-6-2 Pacific locomotives are available in three forms:  The early release with plastic drivers and electrical pick-up in the tender; the second issue with metal drivers and electrical pick-up in the tender; and the later release with metal drivers and electrical pick-up in the locomotive."   The book also say that for 1959 the Pacific was $10 for kits and $15 for ready to run.   The book also shows an "0-6-0 USRA Steam Switcher" mentioning 1962 and a kit price of $9 and $11 for ready to run.  It doesn't say anything about drive type but the photo shows metal drivers and the date would suggest it would not be HiF given the Pacific's history.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: oljoeoh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations The 462 Pacific did make it to production. It was the only Athearn branded loco that wasn't Hi-f powered. Seems to me it appeared 1960-62. Looked ok but was like almost any other Pacific. The only advantage was that it was relatively inexpensive. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@. ..> wrote: > > There was supposed to have been a Pacific 462 steam engine, official guide to Athearn Model trains lists it. It was apparently poor quality and may never have made production. Also the Rectifier used Hi F, possibly on a GP7/9 frame. > > Wobbly913 > > rcjge <rcjge@...> wrote: > Hey Guys: > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > variations? > > I know of the: > > Hustler > RDC's > F-7A > GP7? > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > -Gareth > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3588	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Varney cereal car

----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> To: "VINTAGE H-0" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney cereal car > Just rehabed this Varney stock car, believe it was obtained from a Kix > cereal promotion when I was in high school. It has been relettered along > the way and now sports P2K wheels and KD 5's. There should also be a gon, > hopper and boxcar in a box somewhere under the layout. Different E-mail > raul@... > > Roger Aultman There was a lot of that in the 50's. My Godfather had a set of 4 of the Varney wood and celluloid streamliners in the Tuscan red colors that he said were from a cereal premium. Seems to my I heard some Globe f-7's were also given away. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3589	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Latest adds

Attachments : Two cars went on the layout today. One is actually only "half vintage", I found an undecorated Penn-Line piggyback flat in the scrap box. I actually have a trailer for it, but the trailer had no wheels, so I put Ulrich wheels under it, now they're too wide to fit between the siderails on the Penn Line body, so I had to substitute a modern "Classic Metal Works" trailer. The other one is actually NOT "vintage", but it was done in the vintage style to go with the the cars in my "International Limited" all Pullman train. It's actually my first ever (after almost 50 years in HO) attempt at scratch building rolling stock. Northeastern floor and roof stock, sides are built up from laminated layers of clear styrene. The trucks are vintage though, Globe's :-) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3590	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

The 0-6-0 was reviewed in Model Railroader's "Trade Topics" column in the August 1962 issue.  The review indicates the drive was "worm and gear (plastic)"    Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY   ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles E. Kinzer To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations The Athearn book says that the early Pacifics were HiF powered.  (That seems like it would be interesting to look at.)   The table showing road names and types shows HiF for 1959 and geared for 1961.   Below the table It says "The 4-6-2 Pacific locomotives are available in three forms:  The early release with plastic drivers and electrical pick-up in the tender; the second issue with metal drivers and electrical pick-up in the tender; and the later release with metal drivers and electrical pick-up in the locomotive."   The book also say that for 1959 the Pacific was $10 for kits and $15 for ready to run.   The book also shows an "0-6-0 USRA Steam Switcher" mentioning 1962 and a kit price of $9 and $11 for ready to run.  It doesn't say anything about drive type but the photo shows metal drivers and the date would suggest it would not be HiF given the Pacific's history.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: oljoeoh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations The 462 Pacific did make it to production. It was the only Athearn branded loco that wasn't Hi-f powered. Seems to me it appeared 1960-62. Looked ok but was like almost any other Pacific. The only advantage was that it was relatively inexpensive. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@. ..> wrote: > > There was supposed to have been a Pacific 462 steam engine, official guide to Athearn Model trains lists it. It was apparently poor quality and may never have made production. Also the Rectifier used Hi F, possibly on a GP7/9 frame. > > Wobbly913 > > rcjge <rcjge@...> wrote: > Hey Guys: > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > variations? > > I know of the: > > Hustler > RDC's > F-7A > GP7? > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > -Gareth > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3591	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit? > After some time pleasantly reviewing and re-reviewing the earliest > issues of both THE MODEL RAILROADER and MODEL CRAFTSMAN, it seemed > increasingly clear to me that Frank Taylor's "Taylor-Built" Milwaukee > Road F6a 4-6-4 Baltic was apparently the first commercial > American-profile locomotive kit actually available to the American > market in HO (c. October 1935). Is this true? (Walthers bought the > project from Taylor before that year was out, and hired Taylor as > well.). The Baltic is a pretty impressive and unusual first > locomotive for a struggling new scale, certainly not the usual > simple 0-4-0 that one would usually expect to stake out such a > position. > > I wonder whether other listers picked up the factual errors in Keith > Wills' RMC article on prewar Varney? Although I read his columns > always with interest, I personally have picked up too many factual > errors and unsubstantiated conclusions for the column to continue to > have anything but maximum mid-range credibility for me. Does anyone > know him? Is he comfortable talking to anyone else besides himself > on these subjects? Does he know enough other knowledgeable people, > or have access to enough written materials, that he can indeed > perform routine fact checking? > > Denny > -- > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento Write him and tell him to join us here, then he can get a number of sources, some credible (most of you), some not so credible (me) <G>. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3592	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

I examined the first Athearn Pacific that arrived in the Cleveland HS I worked in. I wondered how that could be powered with a Hi-f scheme. The one I examined (took it apart to look) was definitely geared and not Hi-f powered. I wasn't the only one anticipating a Hi-f scheme but alas it didn't appear that way. I really don't think it was ever produced as a Hi-f unit. I agree there were several variations of drive wheels but all were gear driven. I really can't imagine how it ever could have been Hi-f powered. Put me in the category of seeing a Hi-f Pacific would make me a believer. I've seen several offered on ebay and none were listed as Hi-f. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > The Athearn book says that the early Pacifics were HiF powered. (That seems like it would be interesting to look at.) > > The table showing road names and types shows HiF for 1959 and geared for 1961. > > Below the table It says "The 4-6-2 Pacific locomotives are available in three forms: The early release with plastic drivers and electrical pick-up in the tender; the second issue with metal drivers and electrical pick-up in the tender; and the later release with metal drivers and electrical pick-up in the locomotive." > > The book also say that for 1959 the Pacific was $10 for kits and $15 for ready to run. > > The book also shows an "0-6-0 USRA Steam Switcher" mentioning 1962 and a kit price of $9 and $11 for ready to run. It doesn't say anything about drive type but the photo shows metal drivers and the date would suggest it would not be HiF given the Pacific's history. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: oljoeoh > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 8:52 AM > Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > The 462 Pacific did make it to production. It was the only > Athearn branded loco that wasn't Hi-f powered. Seems to > me it appeared 1960-62. Looked ok but was like almost > any other Pacific. The only advantage was that it was > relatively inexpensive. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@> wrote: > > > > There was supposed to have been a Pacific 462 steam engine, official > guide to Athearn Model trains lists it. It was apparently poor > quality and may never have made production. Also the Rectifier used > Hi F, possibly on a GP7/9 frame. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > rcjge <rcjge@> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > > variations? > > > > I know of the: > > > > Hustler > > RDC's > > F-7A > > GP7? > > > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > > > -Gareth > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Got a little couch potato? > > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3593	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Just imagine the work involved if you needed to change the belt. > I examined the first Athearn Pacific that arrived in > the Cleveland HS I worked in. I wondered how that > could be powered with a Hi-f scheme. The one I > examined (took it apart to look) was definitely > geared and not Hi-f powered. I wasn't the only > one anticipating a Hi-f scheme but alas it didn't > appear that way. I really don't think it was ever > produced as a Hi-f unit. I agree there were several > variations of drive wheels but all were gear driven. > I really can't imagine how it ever could have been Hi-f > powered. Put me in the category of seeing a Hi-f Pacific would > make me a believer. I've seen several offered on ebay > and none were listed as Hi-f. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@> wrote: > > > > The Athearn book says that the early Pacifics were HiF powered. > (That seems like it would be interesting to look at.) > > > > The table showing road names and types shows HiF for 1959 and geared > for 1961. > > > > Below the table It says "The 4-6-2 Pacific locomotives are available > in three forms: The early release with plastic drivers and electrical > pick-up in the tender; the second issue with metal drivers and > electrical pick-up in the tender; and the later release with metal > drivers and electrical pick-up in the locomotive." > > > > The book also say that for 1959 the Pacific was $10 for kits and $15 > for ready to run. > > > > The book also shows an "0-6-0 USRA Steam Switcher" mentioning 1962 > and a kit price of $9 and $11 for ready to run. It doesn't say > anything about drive type but the photo shows metal drivers and the > date would suggest it would not be HiF given the Pacific's history. > > > > Chuck Kinzer > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: oljoeoh > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 8:52 AM > > Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > > > > The 462 Pacific did make it to production. It was the only > > Athearn branded loco that wasn't Hi-f powered. Seems to > > me it appeared 1960-62. Looked ok but was like almost > > any other Pacific. The only advantage was that it was > > relatively inexpensive. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@> wrote: > > > > > > There was supposed to have been a Pacific 462 steam engine, official > > guide to Athearn Model trains lists it. It was apparently poor > > quality and may never have made production. Also the Rectifier used > > Hi F, possibly on a GP7/9 frame. > > > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > > > rcjge <rcjge@> wrote: > > > Hey Guys: > > > > > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > > > variations? > > > > > > I know of the: > > > > > > Hustler > > > RDC's > > > F-7A > > > GP7? > > > > > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > > > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > > > > > -Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Got a little couch potato? > > > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3594	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Wobbly913 wrote: I did go look at it. Nice looking drive, but it would not seem right to see a Hustler not going around the layout at 200 mph!!!! I love that about the HI F drives in general!!   Wobbly913 sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: I am currently selling a Hustler on eBay with the conversion... If anyone cares to look at it   330120677997   I have a Hustler with a rather coarse worm + gear drive; worms drive the gears on the axles directly. When I bought it at eBay some years ago it was labeled Lionel. Body and sideframes look identical to my Athearn Hustlers. Have put the drive under my Cary boxcab. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3595	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

The Atlas Turbo-Racer...... One monster of a can motor in the shell with a wide-bladed, 4-blade prop on the rear; directly mounted on the motor shaft....... They used the original Hustler chassis with pointed axle ends and no frame bushings. Updating it to the newer Hustler side frames with bronze bushings and the later axles made it run better....... By the way.......... It's really, really good at cleaning tunnels that have been in use for several years................ You get a darned nice dust storm the first few times you pass through the tunnels.......... I painted up mine as an experimental unit with old-style orange SP diagonal warning stripes and some surplus model aircraft warning and emergency escape release hatch decals........... You make me think it's time to shop her with a DCC control using screaming turbine/jet engines sounds, brake screams, and flange squeals...... And some blindingly flashing warning lights......... Maybe with roller bearings this time........... It's quite a FUN model! Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On May 19, 2007, at 7:40 AM, Mike Sloane wrote: > This is going long way back, but I seem to recall some kind of > streamlined "rocket car" with no prototype that was simply intended > as a > competitor to the slot cars. Or maybe it used an airplane type > propeller? I don't think it was around very long. > > Mike > > rcjge wrote: >> >> >> Hey Guys: >> >> Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive >> variations? >> >> I know of the: >> >> Hustler >> RDC's >> F-7A >> GP7? >> >> Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's >> for any/all that would be fantastic! >> >> -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3596	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Athearn made the gear driven models for Lionel where they called it a Husky.  The shell is actually different in several ways from the Hustler, even though they look quite similar.   Wobbly913 Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> wrote: Wobbly913 wrote: I did go look at it. Nice looking drive, but it would not seem right to see a Hustler not going around the layout at 200 mph!!!! I love that about the HI F drives in general!!   Wobbly913 sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: I am currently selling a Hustler on eBay with the conversion... If anyone cares to look at it   330120677997   I have a Hustler with a rather coarse worm + gear drive; worms drive the gears on the axles directly. When I bought it at eBay some years ago it was labeled Lionel. Body and sideframes look identical to my Athearn Hustlers. Have put the drive under my Cary boxcab. Gerold Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3597	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

I have one of the Athearn B&M Pacifics somewhere, but I don't know what type of drive it has.  As I recall it is missing some of the front end parts--pilot, etc--if anyone has one--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hi-F Athearn variations There was supposed to have been a Pacific 462 steam engine, official guide to Athearn Model trains lists it.  It was apparently poor  quality and may never have made production.  Also the Rectifier used Hi F, possibly on a GP7/9 frame.   Wobbly913 rcjge <rcjge@yahoo. ca> wrote: Hey Guys: Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive variations? I know of the: Hustler RDC's F-7A GP7? Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's for any/all that would be fantastic! -Gareth Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3598	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

F7B, ----- Original Message ----- From: rcjge To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 5:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Hi-F Athearn variations Hey Guys: Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive variations? I know of the: Hustler RDC's F-7A GP7? Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's for any/all that would be fantastic! -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3599	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Any pics of the thing and was it actually powered by the prop. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > The Atlas Turbo-Racer...... > > One monster of a can motor in the shell with a wide-bladed, 4-blade > prop on the rear; directly mounted on the motor shaft....... > > They used the original Hustler chassis with pointed axle ends and no > frame bushings. Updating it to the newer Hustler side frames with > bronze bushings and the later axles made it run better....... > > By the way.......... It's really, really good at cleaning tunnels > that have been in use for several years................ You get a > darned nice dust storm the first few times you pass through the > tunnels.......... > > I painted up mine as an experimental unit with old-style orange SP > diagonal warning stripes and some surplus model aircraft warning and > emergency escape release hatch decals........... > > You make me think it's time to shop her with a DCC control using > screaming turbine/jet engines sounds, brake screams, and flange > squeals...... And some blindingly flashing warning lights......... > > Maybe with roller bearings this time........... > > It's quite a FUN model! > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On May 19, 2007, at 7:40 AM, Mike Sloane wrote: > > > This is going long way back, but I seem to recall some kind of > > streamlined "rocket car" with no prototype that was simply intended > > as a > > competitor to the slot cars. Or maybe it used an airplane type > > propeller? I don't think it was around very long. > > > > Mike > > > > rcjge wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hey Guys: > >> > >> Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > >> variations? > >> > >> I know of the: > >> > >> Hustler > >> RDC's > >> F-7A > >> GP7? > >> > >> Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > >> for any/all that would be fantastic! > >> > >> -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3600	From: Garry Spear	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Model Railroader Magazines - Free!!!

Model Railroader Magazines * * *Free --- Local pick up only - Ambler, PA AREA* * * 1948 to 1958 sporadic 1958 - 1999 complete 600 issues or thereabouts – must take all. For individuals, clubs, hobby groups, etc……. *Reply via email and we will respond.* Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3601	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

I have two of the Athearn Pacifics... one of them has the plastic drivers, the other... metal. The drives are different... the one with the plastic drivers has a set of drivers driven directly by a worm gear. The one with the metal drivers has a gearbox. I have an advertisement from a Model Railroader from around 1960 that introduces the all new Athearn Pacific with Hi F drive. I don't think that it ever made it into production, though. I think that the power was supposed to be in the tender, not the engine itself... similar to those tender powered TYCO Consolidations. I think Pemco had a tender powered Ten Wheeler as well. The Pacific with the plastic drivers actually runs fairly well, although I would consider it more of a curiosity for the collection rather than a daily runner. The other one is a bit incomplete and I have not yet gotten around to working on it... the engine works, and would probably run okay... but all that I have done with it so far has been to test it with jumper wires. Stephen _The Pacific _,_._,___ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3602	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?

For some reason... there seems to me to be a never ending river of inconsitent information about Varney products in general... not just the pre war stuff. I wish that someone would write a book that was clear and definitive... I've come across so many variations and oddities over the years, with no resource to check them against.     -----Original Message----- From: danspach@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 19 May 2007 9:48 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit? After some time pleasantly reviewing and re-reviewing the earliest issues of both THE MODEL RAILROADER and MODEL CRAFTSMAN, it seemed increasingly clear to me that Frank Taylor's "Taylor-Built" Milwaukee Road F6a 4-6-4 Baltic was apparently the first commercial American-profile locomotive kit actually available to the American market in HO (c. October 1935). Is this true? (Walthers bought the project from Taylor before that year was out, and hired Taylor as well.). The Baltic is a pretty impressive and unusual first locomotive for a struggling new scale, certainly not the usual simple 0-4-0 that one would usually expect to stake out such a position. I wonder whether other listers picked up the factual errors in Keith Wills' RMC article on prewar Varney? Although I read his columns always with interest, I personally have picked up too many factual errors and unsubstantiated conclusions for the column to continue to have anything but maximum mid-range credibility for me. Does anyone know him? Is he comfortable talking to anyone else besides himself on these subjects? Does he know enough other knowledgeable people, or have access to enough written materials, that he can indeed perform routine fact checking? Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3603	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?

I don't know if this is your answer or not............ Greenbergs Guide to Varney Trains, by John David Spanagel - eBAY auction #200109602662, Current bid: US $39.95 - End time: 16 hours 59 mins (May-20-07 14:40:29 PDT) _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine�s 2007 editors� choice for best Web mail�award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3604	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

I tried to find a pic through Google and just couldn't locate one. I can load a snap late today.......... If I can find my camera........ And the wheels are free-rolling with the only propulsion being the prop itself........... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On May 19, 2007, at 8:14 PM, oljoeoh wrote: > Any pics of the thing > and > was it actually powered by the prop. > Joe O'Loughlin > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> The Atlas Turbo-Racer...... >> >> One monster of a can motor in the shell with a wide-bladed, 4-blade >> prop on the rear; directly mounted on the motor shaft....... >> >> They used the original Hustler chassis with pointed axle ends and no >> frame bushings. Updating it to the newer Hustler side frames with >> bronze bushings and the later axles made it run better....... >> >> By the way.......... It's really, really good at cleaning tunnels >> that have been in use for several years................ You get a >> darned nice dust storm the first few times you pass through the >> tunnels.......... >> >> I painted up mine as an experimental unit with old-style orange SP >> diagonal warning stripes and some surplus model aircraft warning and >> emergency escape release hatch decals........... >> >> You make me think it's time to shop her with a DCC control using >> screaming turbine/jet engines sounds, brake screams, and flange >> squeals...... And some blindingly flashing warning lights......... >> >> Maybe with roller bearings this time........... >> >> It's quite a FUN model! >> >> Best to ya' >> Mike Bauers >> Milwaukee Wi, USA >> >> >> On May 19, 2007, at 7:40 AM, Mike Sloane wrote: >> >>> This is going long way back, but I seem to recall some kind of >>> streamlined "rocket car" with no prototype that was simply intended >>> as a >>> competitor to the slot cars. Or maybe it used an airplane type >>> propeller? I don't think it was around very long. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> rcjge wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hey Guys: >>>> >>>> Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive >>>> variations? >>>> >>>> I know of the: >>>> >>>> Hustler >>>> RDC's >>>> F-7A >>>> GP7? >>>> >>>> Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the >>>> livery's >>>> for any/all that would be fantastic! >>>> >>>> -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3605	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Athearn did a Pacific (B&M Prototype), a USRA 0-6-0, and a Vulcan 0-4- 2T, all were originally supposed to be offered as either geared or a special variant of the Hi-F drive. They were all released, but only in the geared versions. They ran well, but were too expensive to keep in production, especially since Japanese Brass locos were selling for not too much more. The serious hobbyists of the time didn't seem to be interested in plastic steam locos. I have owned all three at various times but always ended up trading them to a collector for something more interesting (to me at least.) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> wrote: > > The 462 Pacific did make it to production. It was the only > Athearn branded loco that wasn't Hi-f powered. Seems to > me it appeared 1960-62. Looked ok but was like almost > any other Pacific. The only advantage was that it was > relatively inexpensive. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@> wrote: > > > > There was supposed to have been a Pacific 462 steam engine, official > guide to Athearn Model trains lists it. It was apparently poor > quality and may never have made production. Also the Rectifier used > Hi F, possibly on a GP7/9 frame. > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > rcjge <rcjge@> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > > variations? > > > > I know of the: > > > > Hustler > > RDC's > > F-7A > > GP7? > > > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the livery's > > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > > > -Gareth > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Got a little couch potato? > > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3606	From: Larry	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Try this link and look through the catalogs for the 1950's and early 1960's to see what Athearn made in HIFI locomatives. There is also an advertisement for the turbo racers there. http://www.hoseeker.net/athearnmicellaneous.html Larry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Athearn did a Pacific (B&M Prototype), a USRA 0-6-0, and a Vulcan 0- 4- > 2T, all were originally supposed to be offered as either geared or a > special variant of the Hi-F drive. They were all released, but only > in the geared versions. They ran well, but were too expensive to keep > in production, especially since Japanese Brass locos were selling for > not too much more. The serious hobbyists of the time didn't seem to > be interested in plastic steam locos. I have owned all three at > various times but always ended up trading them to a collector for > something more interesting (to me at least.) > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@> wrote: > > > > The 462 Pacific did make it to production. It was the only > > Athearn branded loco that wasn't Hi-f powered. Seems to > > me it appeared 1960-62. Looked ok but was like almost > > any other Pacific. The only advantage was that it was > > relatively inexpensive. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@> wrote: > > > > > > There was supposed to have been a Pacific 462 steam engine, > official > > guide to Athearn Model trains lists it. It was apparently poor > > quality and may never have made production. Also the Rectifier used > > Hi F, possibly on a GP7/9 frame. > > > > > > Wobbly913 > > > > > > rcjge <rcjge@> wrote: > > > Hey Guys: > > > > > > Does someone on the list know what are all the Athearn Hi-F drive > > > variations? > > > > > > I know of the: > > > > > > Hustler > > > RDC's > > > F-7A > > > GP7? > > > > > > Any help would be great. If of course you actually know the > livery's > > > for any/all that would be fantastic! > > > > > > -Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Got a little couch potato? > > > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3607	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Varney history. Was: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO loco

Varney history is difficult to follow, and Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains by David Spanagel  (Greenberg, 1991) is the only publication on the subject that I know of. Even then, Spanagel obviously had only limited historical resources to draw upon, and in this regard, he has done a pretty good job, and-  IMHO the book is pretty essential for those interested in the early days of this part of the hobby . Having said that,  I have found many small inconsistencies in the information that that is in the book with information that I have stumbled across myself, and a lot of the dates that Spanagel imputes are just that: they are just approximates. The person who knows the most about this is J.P. Barger in Boston. I believe that he has every single pre-1950 Varney kit save one, and has a broad knowledge of what was produced when and where and by whom. One of things that he has related to me  that at the same time both clears up and complicates matters when trying to figure things out, was that Varney commonly used a string of outside job-shops to do a lot of his production work, especially the metal castings. So, at least a partial explanation of  the somewhat chaotic series of different Varney freight trucks, is that  each iteration most likely represented design changes tied to a change in job shop. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3608	From: donvdh	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: wrong scale

Attachments : I know this is question for the wrong scale but I don't know who else to ask. I have a red helicopter, white rotor and landing gear, dark bubble that looks exactly like all the helicopters on the Lionel O gauge listings in late O gauge. My problem is they are all white or yellow. The window cut-outs are the same, and this one has the rotor staff all the way through to a cup in the underside of the helicopter. The bottom of the staff has the same kind of reliefs in it to fit in a launcher as my not so old Lionel HO helicopter car. The tail rotor and ailerons are exactly the same. Can anyone tell me if Lionel made red helicopters in OI? My HO is red. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3609	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: wrong scale

I have a "Greenberg's Guide to Lionel Trains" Volume 1 1990 edition that says this:   "HELICOPTER TYPES   (A)  Gray "NAVY" with two rotors and four tip pids, yellow tail assembly. (B)  Gray "NAVY" with one rotor, no tip pods, yellow tail assembly (C) All-yellow unmarked helicopter, one rotor, no tip pods. (D)  Red with single roto, no tip pods, came with 3619. (E) Gray "NAVY" with one rotor, no tip pods, clear (but yellowed) tail assembly.  C. Rohlfing Collection. (F)  Same as (A), but clear (yellowed) tail assembly.  C. Rohlfing Collection."   3619 is descirbed as:   "3619 HELICOPTER RECONNAISSANCE CAR  1962-64, operating car with red HO-scaled helicopter, black propeller and black landing gear.  The helicopter, stored inside, is launched by a spring-loaded device which is pressed to cock.  The spring is released by a magnetic section of uncoupling track.  Yellow or yellow-orange plastic car sides and ends with red and black letter, black roof, AAR trucks with two disc couplers.  Sometimes hard to find with intact helicopter and mechanism.   (A) Yellow (B) Yellow-orange (C) Same as (A) but yellow helicopter.  This helicopter was reproduced about 1980 by a well-known HO train manufacturer.  This manufacturer may have been the original supplier to Lionel.  Additional information requested.  R. Shanfeld Collection."   So...  There is an HO connection after all!   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] wrong scale I know this is question for the wrong scale but I don't know who else to ask. I have a red helicopter, white rotor and landing gear, dark bubble that looks exactly like all the helicopters on the Lionel O gauge listings in late O gauge. My problem is they are all white or yellow. The window cut-outs are the same, and this one has the rotor staff all the way through to a cup in the underside of the helicopter. The bottom of the staff has the same kind of reliefs in it to fit in a launcher as my not so old Lionel HO helicopter car. The tail rotor and ailerons are exactly the same. Can anyone tell me if Lionel made red helicopters in OI? My HO is red. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3610	From: donvdh	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Wrong Scale

Attachments : About the O gauge (?) helicopter again. I finally put my glasses on to look at closely. It does say "BLT BY LIONEL" - all capital letters - on the rear stabilizer assembly. Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3611	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale

Attachments : Isn't it amazing what those "Glasses" will do for old tired eyes???? :-) >From: "donvdh" <donvdh@...> >Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale >Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:45:40 -0600 > >BlankAbout the O gauge (?) helicopter again. I finally put my glasses on to >look at closely. It does say "BLT BY LIONEL" - all capital letters - on the >rear stabilizer assembly. Don V _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? You�ll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3612	From: donvdh	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Wrong Scale Helicopter

Attachments : It's getting so I need binoculars instead of glasses. {:-) Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3613	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter

Attachments : I tried just wearing my magni-visor all the time, but my wife keeps looking at me funny..... And then when she puts her glasses on, she laughs................:-) >From: "donvdh" <donvdh@...> >Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter >Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 12:48:13 -0600 > >BlankIt's getting so I need binoculars instead of glasses. {:-) Don V > _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? You�ll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3614	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

As I recall the Athearn Pacific held the record for pre-availability advertising. Probably the reason they surprised us with later releases--they learned their lesson on advertising too early in the design phase.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations    I have two of the Athearn Pacifics... one of them has the plastic drivers, the other... metal. The drives are different... the one with the plastic drivers has a set of drivers driven directly by a worm gear. The one with the metal drivers has a gearbox. I have an advertisement from a Model Railroader from around 1960 that introduces the all new Athearn Pacific with Hi F drive. I don't think that it ever made it into production, though. I think that the power was supposed to be in the tender, not the engine itself... similar to those tender powered TYCO Consolidations. I think Pemco had a tender powered Ten Wheeler as well. The Pacific with the plastic drivers actually runs fairly well, although I would consider it more of a curiosity for the collection rather than a daily runner. The other one is a bit incomplete and I have not yet gotten around to working on it... the engine works, and would probably run okay... but all that I have done with it so far has been to test it with jumper wires. Stephen _The Pacific _,_._,___ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3615	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Even longer than the Bachmann 1:20 Shay? > As I recall the Athearn Pacific held the record for pre- availability advertising. Probably the reason they surprised us with later releases--they learned their lesson on advertising too early in the design phase. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MRLENGAL2U@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 9:22 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > > > > > I have two of the Athearn Pacifics... one of them has the plastic drivers, the other... metal. The drives are different... the one with the plastic drivers has a set of drivers driven directly by a worm gear. The one with the metal drivers has a gearbox. I have an advertisement from a Model Railroader from around 1960 that introduces the all new Athearn Pacific with Hi F drive. I don't think that it ever made it into production, though. I think that the power was supposed to be in the tender, not the engine itself... similar to those tender powered TYCO Consolidations. I think Pemco had a tender powered Ten Wheeler as well. > > The Pacific with the plastic drivers actually runs fairly well, although I would consider it more of a curiosity for the collection rather than a daily runner. The other one is a bit incomplete and I have not yet gotten around to working on it... the engine works, and would probably run okay... but all that I have done with it so far has been to test it with jumper wires. > > Stephen > > > _The Pacific _,_._,___ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3616	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Seemed like at least 3 years-- ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:25 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations Even longer than the Bachmann 1:20 Shay? > As I recall the Athearn Pacific held the record for pre- availability advertising. Probably the reason they surprised us with later releases--they learned their lesson on advertising too early in the design phase. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MRLENGAL2U@. .. > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 9:22 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > > > > > I have two of the Athearn Pacifics... one of them has the plastic drivers, the other... metal. The drives are different... the one with the plastic drivers has a set of drivers driven directly by a worm gear. The one with the metal drivers has a gearbox. I have an advertisement from a Model Railroader from around 1960 that introduces the all new Athearn Pacific with Hi F drive. I don't think that it ever made it into production, though. I think that the power was supposed to be in the tender, not the engine itself... similar to those tender powered TYCO Consolidations. I think Pemco had a tender powered Ten Wheeler as well. > > The Pacific with the plastic drivers actually runs fairly well, although I would consider it more of a curiosity for the collection rather than a daily runner. The other one is a bit incomplete and I have not yet gotten around to working on it... the engine works, and would probably run okay... but all that I have done with it so far has been to test it with jumper wires. > > Stephen > > > _The Pacific _,_._,___ > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - ----------- > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3617	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Dave--As I recall you were Navy--do you recall ALCo 6-axle military model road switchers--1600 hp?  I spent the day with one--strange idle pattern--would seem like it is about to die, then fires 10 or 12 times--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:25 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations Even longer than the Bachmann 1:20 Shay? > As I recall the Athearn Pacific held the record for pre- availability advertising. Probably the reason they surprised us with later releases--they learned their lesson on advertising too early in the design phase. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MRLENGAL2U@. .. > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 9:22 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > > > > > I have two of the Athearn Pacifics... one of them has the plastic drivers, the other... metal. The drives are different... the one with the plastic drivers has a set of drivers driven directly by a worm gear. The one with the metal drivers has a gearbox. I have an advertisement from a Model Railroader from around 1960 that introduces the all new Athearn Pacific with Hi F drive. I don't think that it ever made it into production, though. I think that the power was supposed to be in the tender, not the engine itself... similar to those tender powered TYCO Consolidations. I think Pemco had a tender powered Ten Wheeler as well. > > The Pacific with the plastic drivers actually runs fairly well, although I would consider it more of a curiosity for the collection rather than a daily runner. The other one is a bit incomplete and I have not yet gotten around to working on it... the engine works, and would probably run okay... but all that I have done with it so far has been to test it with jumper wires. > > Stephen > > > _The Pacific _,_._,___ > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - ----------- > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3618	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Yes. I even recall there weren't many of them, and most were parked. I think someone told me it was the type of governor used. I've seen Model 40's, oddballs like 45-tonners but bigger, RS-1's, but I think the one you are thinking of was this: http://cencalrails.railfan.net/usn0544prm.jpg an MRS-1. I don't even recall when or where......maybe a museum, maybe in service somewhere. I do recall the double Baldwins at Trona, too. Dave > Dave--As I recall you were Navy--do you recall ALCo 6-axle military model road switchers--1600 hp? I spent the day with one-- strange idle pattern--would seem like it is about to die, then fires 10 or 12 times--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:25 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > Even longer than the Bachmann 1:20 Shay? > > > As I recall the Athearn Pacific held the record for pre- > availability advertising. Probably the reason they surprised us with > later releases--they learned their lesson on advertising too early > in the design phase. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: MRLENGAL2U@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 9:22 PM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have two of the Athearn Pacifics... one of them has the > plastic drivers, the other... metal. The drives are different... the > one with the plastic drivers has a set of drivers driven directly by > a worm gear. The one with the metal drivers has a gearbox. I have an > advertisement from a Model Railroader from around 1960 that > introduces the all new Athearn Pacific with Hi F drive. I don't > think that it ever made it into production, though. I think that the > power was supposed to be in the tender, not the engine itself... > similar to those tender powered TYCO Consolidations. I think Pemco > had a tender powered Ten Wheeler as well. > > > > The Pacific with the plastic drivers actually runs fairly well, > although I would consider it more of a curiosity for the collection > rather than a daily runner. The other one is a bit incomplete and I > have not yet gotten around to working on it... the engine works, and > would probably run okay... but all that I have done with it so far > has been to test it with jumper wires. > > > > Stephen > > > > > > _The Pacific _,_._,___ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about > what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3619	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

about right. We built a 10% logging branch, ran off into the woods with loading areas, the whole bit. In wet weather, rod locos simply slid down the grade. Finally ripped it out (re-laid Bachmann track on the actual grade and let it rust into nothingness) and re-laid all the track at a new "show" in the mountains. Then they finally got it delivered. > Seemed like at least 3 years-- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:25 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > Even longer than the Bachmann 1:20 Shay? > > > As I recall the Athearn Pacific held the record for pre- > availability advertising. Probably the reason they surprised us with > later releases--they learned their lesson on advertising too early > in the design phase. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: MRLENGAL2U@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 9:22 PM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have two of the Athearn Pacifics... one of them has the > plastic drivers, the other... metal. The drives are different... the > one with the plastic drivers has a set of drivers driven directly by > a worm gear. The one with the metal drivers has a gearbox. I have an > advertisement from a Model Railroader from around 1960 that > introduces the all new Athearn Pacific with Hi F drive. I don't > think that it ever made it into production, though. I think that the > power was supposed to be in the tender, not the engine itself... > similar to those tender powered TYCO Consolidations. I think Pemco > had a tender powered Ten Wheeler as well. > > > > The Pacific with the plastic drivers actually runs fairly well, > although I would consider it more of a curiosity for the collection > rather than a daily runner. The other one is a bit incomplete and I > have not yet gotten around to working on it... the engine works, and > would probably run okay... but all that I have done with it so far > has been to test it with jumper wires. > > > > Stephen > > > > > > _The Pacific _,_._,___ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about > what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3620	From: Robert K Nielsen	Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Attachments : Yes. I even recall there weren't many of them, and most were parked. I think someone told me it was the type of governor used. I've seen Model 40's, oddballs like 45-tonners but bigger, RS-1's, but I think the one you are thinking of was this: http://cencalrails. railfan.net/ usn0544prm. jpg an MRS-1. I don't even recall when or where......maybe a museum, maybe in service somewhere. I do recall the double Baldwins at Trona, too. Dave > Dave--As I recall you were Navy--do you recall ALCo 6-axle military model road switchers--1600 hp? I spent the day with one-- strange idle pattern--would seem like it is about to die, then fires 10 or 12 times--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: href="mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com">vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:25 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > Even longer than the Bachmann 1:20 Shay? > > > As I recall the Athearn Pacific held the record for pre- > availability advertising. Probably the reason they surprised us with > later releases--they learned their lesson on advertising too early > in the design phase. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: MRLENGAL2U@ > > To: href="mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com">vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 9:22 PM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have two of the Athearn Pacifics... one of them has the > plastic drivers, the other... metal. The drives are different... the > one with the plastic drivers has a set of drivers driven directly by > a worm gear. The one with the metal drivers has a gearbox. I have an > advertisement from a Model Railroader from around 1960 that > introduces the all new Athearn Pacific with Hi F drive. I don't > think that it ever made it into production, though. I think that the > power was supposed to be in the tender, not the engine itself... > similar to those tender powered TYCO Consolidations. I think Pemco > had a tender powered Ten Wheeler as well. > > > > The Pacific with the plastic drivers actually runs fairly well, > although I would consider it more of a curiosity for the collection > rather than a daily runner. The other one is a bit incomplete and I > have not yet gotten around to working on it... the engine works, and > would probably run okay... but all that I have done with it so far > has been to test it with jumper wires. > > > > Stephen > > > > > > _The Pacific _,_._,___ > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > ----------- > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about > what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3621	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter

I had two Opti-visors so I could always find one when I needed it but now my wife has taken one of them for herself. We are both unable to focus on anything closer than 5 feet away. Without it, I wouldn't be in model railroading! When I was a kid, I laughed at the ads in Model Railroader that showed the older gentleman saying "These are my 'real' eyes." Now I am that guy. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: > > I tried just wearing my magni-visor all the time, but my wife keeps looking > at me funny..... > > And then when she puts her glasses on, she laughs................:-) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3622	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: NMRA Manual

Hey Guys! I just this weekend picked up a NMRA Manual on eBay. It will be coming with a lot of 7 building kits, including 1 FSM engine house kit (can't wait to see that). If anyone has any information they would like for me to look-up, I would be happy to do so, when it comes. I can not wait to see it as well as the other stuff in the lot. Man, my wife is going to kill me! So much for not buying any more stuff! Later! Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3623	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter

mmattjcoleman wrote: >I had two Opti-visors so I could always find one when I needed it but >now my wife has taken one of them for herself. > Try one of these magnifier lamps - you may attach it to the workbench so you always know where it is. * I laughed about these ads too * Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3624	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Suydam reefer

Hi , got a Suydam reefer kit some days ago ( IC Express reefer, marked an "ED-LEE" kit , #MB-5 , $3.45, green box apparently relabeled with yellow Suydam style overlays ) Unfortunately, no documentation/ instruction sheet came with it - does anybody know more about those reefers? Havent found any reference in Suydam catalogs until now. I would greatly appreciate any lead to a (scanned?) instruction sheet. Thanks, Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3625	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations

Ours looks like that--but cleaner.  Someone added a series of stanchions along the sill from ahead of the cab to the radiator shutters, then strung 2 lengths of cable for a handrail. When it first arrived it was a "roundhouse queen" but now is a workhorse.  Shares duties with ex-SP SD-9 #4439..Steam operations start Saturday.  gj----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations Yes. I even recall there weren't many of them, and most were parked. I think someone told me it was the type of governor used. I've seen Model 40's, oddballs like 45-tonners but bigger, RS-1's, but I think the one you are thinking of was this: http://cencalrails. railfan.net/ usn0544prm. jpg an MRS-1. I don't even recall when or where......maybe a museum, maybe in service somewhere. I do recall the double Baldwins at Trona, too. Dave > Dave--As I recall you were Navy--do you recall ALCo 6-axle military model road switchers--1600 hp? I spent the day with one-- strange idle pattern--would seem like it is about to die, then fires 10 or 12 times--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:25 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > Even longer than the Bachmann 1:20 Shay? > > > As I recall the Athearn Pacific held the record for pre- > availability advertising. Probably the reason they surprised us with > later releases--they learned their lesson on advertising too early > in the design phase. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: MRLENGAL2U@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 9:22 PM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have two of the Athearn Pacifics... one of them has the > plastic drivers, the other... metal. The drives are different... the > one with the plastic drivers has a set of drivers driven directly by > a worm gear. The one with the metal drivers has a gearbox. I have an > advertisement from a Model Railroader from around 1960 that > introduces the all new Athearn Pacific with Hi F drive. I don't > think that it ever made it into production, though. I think that the > power was supposed to be in the tender, not the engine itself... > similar to those tender powered TYCO Consolidations. I think Pemco > had a tender powered Ten Wheeler as well. > > > > The Pacific with the plastic drivers actually runs fairly well, > although I would consider it more of a curiosity for the collection > rather than a daily runner. The other one is a bit incomplete and I > have not yet gotten around to working on it... the engine works, and > would probably run okay... but all that I have done with it so far > has been to test it with jumper wires. > > > > Stephen > > > > > > _The Pacific _,_._,___ > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > ----------- > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about > what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3626	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter

I have one of those magnifier lamps--uses a ring fluorescent tube--can't use it much--keep fogging the magnifier.   After I had cataract surgery in ' 99 I got an assortment of cheap reading glasses--Dollar Tree has them for a buck-- and select the magnification that suits the project.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerold Eckl To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 12:38 PM Subject: Re: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter mmattjcoleman wrote: >I had two Opti-visors so I could always find one when I needed it but >now my wife has taken one of them for herself. > Try one of these magnifier lamps - you may attach it to the workbench so you always know where it is. * I laughed about these ads too * Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3627	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual

Sean, Is this the HB plastic version dated about 1974/75? Loren _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? You�ll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3628	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual

Sorry Loren,   I wonder how many versions there are???   Are you asking if it is the hard-back palstic version...?  If so, No. It's coyright date is 1963, but according to the listing... 170113910052 some of the dates in the boks instructions are dated 1957...       I can not wait to see it... He mailed it UPS today... from Texas...   Later!   Sean   Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Sean, Is this the HB plastic version dated about 1974/75? Loren _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? You’ll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3629	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/22/2007
Subject: Suydam reefer

Another car in the same Suydam series of reefers was reviewed in the MR on page 13, March 1955. It is still a mystery for me as to where this line actually originated- Ayres? -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3630	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/22/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam reefer

----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re:Suydam reefer > Another car in the same Suydam series of reefers was reviewed in the > MR on page 13, March 1955. It is still a mystery for me as to where > this line actually originated- Ayres? > -- > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento The "Ed" in "EdLee" is of course Ed Suydam. I wonder if the "Lee" part may be Leo Campbell. It seems to me I read once that he got his start in the business working for Suydam. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3631	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/22/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual

The "Manual" as I know it is a loose-leaf binder affair with organizational info, standards & RP's, Periodical Index, and Data Sheets. At one time everyone received one on joining--then updates were printed as an insert to the Bulletin. Special heavier paper, and printed to be removed and filed in the Manual. Somewhere along the line this all fell apart. Last "Data Sheets" I recall were diagrams of a bunch of kits for possible kitashing--more suited to a regular article as the subject kits probably haven't been available for years. The Electrical and Electronics DS's in particular are probably obsolete now. Likewise, the "US Safety Appliance Standards" that were the subject of several sheets haven't been updated since the removal of roofwalks. The DS's were supposed to be valuable reference material from sources the average modeler did not have ready access to. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] NMRA Manual > Sean, > > Is this the HB plastic version dated about 1974/75? > > Loren > > _________________________________________________________________ > Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? You'll love Windows Live > Hotmail. > http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3632	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam reefer

Don Dellmann wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...> >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:44 AM >Subject: [vintageHO] Re:Suydam reefer > > > > >>Another car in the same Suydam series of reefers was reviewed in the >>MR on page 13, March 1955. It is still a mystery for me as to where >>this line actually originated- Ayres? >>-- >>Denny S. Anspach, MD >>Sacramento >> >> > >The "Ed" in "EdLee" is of course Ed Suydam. I wonder if the "Lee" part may >be Leo Campbell. It seems to me I read once that he got his start in the >business working for Suydam. > >Don > > > Makes sense. Those Ayres kits are very different so I think there is no connection, and the Suydam ore cars are done differently again. I have a picture of another Suydam / Ed-Lee reefer in my files, the "NADX - EGG" reefer... seems there are more of these around than the IC type. Denny, I did not find the review in MR 03/55 - the Kalmbach magazine index did not help either. Page 13 has a review of crossing gates. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3633	From: Scott	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual

Nowadays you're lucky if you receive your membership card and that's it.   Scott   On 5/22/07, Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: The "Manual" as I know it is a loose-leaf binder affair with organizational info, standards & RP's, Periodical Index, and Data Sheets. At one time everyone received one on joining--then updates were printed as an insert to the Bulletin. Special heavier paper, and printed to be removed and filed in the Manual. Somewhere along the line this all fell apart. Last "Data Sheets" I recall were diagrams of a bunch of kits for possible kitashing--more suited to a regular article as the subject kits probably haven't been available for years. The Electrical and Electronics DS's in particular are probably obsolete now. Likewise, the "US Safety Appliance Standards" that were the subject of several sheets haven't been updated since the removal of roofwalks. The DS's were supposed to be valuable reference material from sources the average modeler did not have ready access to. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@... > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] NMRA Manual > Sean, > > Is this the HB plastic version dated about 1974/75? > > Loren > > __________________________________________________________ > Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? You'll love Windows Live > Hotmail. > http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3634	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual

I do receive "Scale Rails" magazine regularly............ But then I have been a member since before the flood..........:-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage�get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3635	From: Scott	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual

I haven't received even that.... On 5/23/07, Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: I do receive "Scale Rails" magazine regularly............ But then I have been a member since before the flood..........:-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3636	From: donvdh	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado

Attachments : Don't know if a question that isn't about Athearn advertising problems or HiF drive mysteries is acceptable, but here goes. I'm looking for a brass cab for a Mantua Mikado or Berkshire. Anyone have an extra or surplus they'd be willing to part with? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3637	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado

Attachments : Agreed, Don - I get tired of repetitive posts which then get so far off-topic. Why people can't change the subject line or go off-list is beyond me.   And sorry, I don't have any brass mantua cabs - but if you can design it and supply artwork, I could make one or more for you by photo-etching. Authenticity could be the only question.   Etching prices(for all); just ask politely and preferably not as part of "Brass Mantua Cab..." unless you have some artwork ready. No reason the whole group couldn't share - at slight "volume" prices.   Enough rant/bare-faced promo.   G'nite and good luck   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: Don't know if a question that isn't about Athearn advertising problems or HiF drive mysteries is acceptable, but here goes. I'm looking for a brass cab for a Mantua Mikado or Berkshire. Anyone have an extra or surplus they'd be willing to part with? Don V.   Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3638	From: donvdh	Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado

Attachments : Fred, I tried drawing a picture on my monitor but it wouldn't show up on the e-mail form so if you would look up these 3 eBay auctions (all closed) it would give up an idea. The all weather cab is specifically for a Mantua Mikado. I was playing Solitaire on my computer and missed the end of the auction??? Don V 330121272318, 160114324976, or 180119476836

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3639	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado

Attachments : Don, Sorry, I was off line all evening last night. I missed your questions. I do have at least one all weather cab. But if I remember correctly, I have 3. I might be willing to part with one, if that is what you are looking for.   later! Sean donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: Fred, I tried drawing a picture on my monitor but it wouldn't show up on the e-mail form so if you would look up these 3 eBay auctions (all closed) it would give up an idea. The all weather cab is specifically for a Mantua Mikado. I was playing Solitaire on my computer and missed the end of the auction??? Don V 330121272318, 160114324976, or 180119476836 TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3640	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado

Attachments : Now that is just down right funny....   Sean donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: Don't know if a question that isn't about Athearn advertising problems or HiF drive mysteries is acceptable, but here goes. I'm looking for a brass cab for a Mantua Mikado or Berkshire. Anyone have an extra or surplus they'd be willing to part with? Don V.   Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3641	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado

Don, thanks for your efforts. Unfortunately, I can't use pics or an "idea" for etching.   I can send sample scans of a job I did for a guy - loco parts and pics would include the artwork and the finished product.   Anyhow, it seems that a listee has what you need so perhaps it won't be necessary.   Fred Hultber(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: Fred, I tried drawing a picture on my monitor but it wouldn't show up on the e-mail form so if you would look up these 3 eBay auctions (all closed) it would give up an idea. The all weather cab is specifically for a Mantua Mikado. I was playing Solitaire on my computer and missed the end of the auction??? Don V 330121272318, 160114324976, or 180119476836 Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48517/*http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 hot CTA = Join our Network Research Panel

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3642	From: donvdh	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Hallmark Lionel Engine

Attachments : Can any of you with a Greenberg's Lionel guide tell me anything about the engine listed below. The item number is an eBay item number. Don V.   Item #260119958398 LIONEL N and W 746 STEAM LOCOMOTIVE NEW IN BOX - Hallmark Special Edition

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3643	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark Lionel Engine

Hello,   You won't find this in any Greenbergs guide. This was part of an ill fated series from Hallmark cards under license from Lionel. They came out with the Great American Railway Series and had  a few other die-cast non powered locos and in the N & W series they were going to come out with a complete train including the cars. Unfortunately the series ended early as sales were slow only one freight car was issued, The locos sold in the $100 to $150 range when new. I have a few of them packed away that I purchased at list price. Hope this helps. James Bartelt jimbartelt@... Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079 METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html ----- Original Message ---- From: donvdh <donvdh@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:17:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Hallmark Lionel Engine Can any of you with a Greenberg's Lionel guide tell me anything about the engine listed below. The item number is an eBay item number. Don V.   Item #260119958398 LIONEL N and W 746 STEAM LOCOMOTIVE NEW IN BOX - Hallmark Special Edition

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3644	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado

Mantua only had Zamak and plastic cabs for the Mike---Kemtron had a "vestibule" or "All Weather" cab in brass-- ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:03 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado Don't know if a question that isn't about Athearn advertising problems or HiF drive mysteries is acceptable, but here goes. I'm looking for a brass cab for a Mantua Mikado or Berkshire. Anyone have an extra or surplus they'd be willing to part with? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3645	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado

OK---you are looking for that all-weather cab.  I mentioned earlier that Kemtron made it, brass or plastic--you might try PSC--assuming the patterns were not destroyed in the fire back when they were in Woodland, CA.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado Fred, I tried drawing a picture on my monitor but it wouldn't show up on the e-mail form so if you would look up these 3 eBay auctions (all closed) it would give up an idea. The all weather cab is specifically for a Mantua Mikado. I was playing Solitaire on my computer and missed the end of the auction??? Don V 330121272318, 160114324976, or 180119476836

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3646	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado

A thought--to be really right when using that A-W cab, the tender front deck and its ladders should be removed as they were then not needed. See photos of SP GS-4's--gj----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado Don, Sorry, I was off line all evening last night. I missed your questions. I do have at least one all weather cab. But if I remember correctly, I have 3. I might be willing to part with one, if that is what you are looking for.   later! Sean donvdh <donvdh@cableone. net> wrote: Fred, I tried drawing a picture on my monitor but it wouldn't show up on the e-mail form so if you would look up these 3 eBay auctions (all closed) it would give up an idea. The all weather cab is specifically for a Mantua Mikado. I was playing Solitaire on my computer and missed the end of the auction??? Don V 330121272318, 160114324976, or 180119476836 TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3647	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado

interesting that this is appearing after the responses did. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:50 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado Now that is just down right funny....   Sean donvdh <donvdh@cableone. net> wrote: Don't know if a question that isn't about Athearn advertising problems or HiF drive mysteries is acceptable, but here goes. I'm looking for a brass cab for a Mantua Mikado or Berkshire. Anyone have an extra or surplus they'd be willing to part with? Don V.   Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3648	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark Lionel Engine

These are static models approximately OO Scale size (That's 4mm to the foot for the younger guys.)  They do not operate but are nice displays. They are not accurate models of full-size locos but of Lionel O Gauge models.  Thoroughly confused?    I have several of them   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:17 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Hallmark Lionel Engine Can any of you with a Greenberg's Lionel guide tell me anything about the engine listed below. The item number is an eBay item number. Don V.   Item #260119958398 LIONEL N and W 746 STEAM LOCOMOTIVE NEW IN BOX - Hallmark Special Edition

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3649	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark Lionel Engine

There has NEVER been any Hallmark offerings are O gauge. Many of them are OO size and others (xmas tree ornaments) are even smaller. The OO items are real lookers but unpowered. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > BlankCan any of you with a Greenberg's Lionel guide tell me anything about the engine listed below. The item number is an eBay item number. Don V. > > > > Item #260119958398 LIONEL N and W 746 STEAM LOCOMOTIVE NEW IN BOX - Hallmark Special Edition >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3650	From: donvdh	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: 00 vs HO

Attachments : To show my ignorance and near total lack of model train knowledge again, can someone please explain to me the difference between 00 and HO as far as size in other than mystical percentages. All I know is that 00 is European, HO American. Is 00 metric vs. American ASE measurements? Are the sizes of the equipment different? Will they interchange directly on the HO track? Does 00 use the same voltage range as HO? Will with work on DC or does it use AC? I have no clue. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3651	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

Attachments : Don, OO is larger than HO. An OO engine's drivers will straddle the HO track, sitting on the outsides of each rail.  I had listed a brass one about two months ago, I will try to find the listing now and show you a pic... Sean donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: To show my ignorance and near total lack of model train knowledge again, can someone please explain to me the difference between 00 and HO as far as size in other than mystical percentages. All I know is that 00 is European, HO American. Is 00 metric vs. American ASE measurements? Are the sizes of the equipment different? Will they interchange directly on the HO track? Does 00 use the same voltage range as HO? Will with work on DC or does it use AC? I have no clue. Don V. Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3652	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

Don,   This is the eBay listing I had for a pre-war 4-4-2 Atlantic that was sold as a kit between 1937-1939 by Star-Continental.   330105687164   Sean sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Don, OO is larger than HO. An OO engine's drivers will straddle the HO track, sitting on the outsides of each rail.  I had listed a brass one about two months ago, I will try to find the listing now and show you a pic... Sean donvdh <donvdh@cableone. net> wrote: To show my ignorance and near total lack of model train knowledge again, can someone please explain to me the difference between 00 and HO as far as size in other than mystical percentages. All I know is that 00 is European, HO American. Is 00 metric vs. American ASE measurements? Are the sizes of the equipment different? Will they interchange directly on the HO track? Does 00 use the same voltage range as HO? Will with work on DC or does it use AC? I have no clue. Don V. Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3653	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

I think OO is 1:76...HO is 1:87. The two don't mix.   John sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Don, OO is larger than HO. An OO engine's drivers will straddle the HO track, sitting on the outsides of each rail.  I had listed a brass one about two months ago, I will try to find the listing now and show you a pic... Sean donvdh <donvdh@cableone. net> wrote: To show my ignorance and near total lack of model train knowledge again, can someone please explain to me the difference between 00 and HO as far as size in other than mystical percentages. All I know is that 00 is European, HO American. Is 00 metric vs. American ASE measurements? Are the sizes of the equipment different? Will they interchange directly on the HO track? Does 00 use the same voltage range as HO? Will with work on DC or does it use AC? I have no clue. Don V. Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3654	From: donvdh	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

Attachments : Thanks Sean, John. OK, then. If I'm understanding these 2 answers correctly an engine that is in 00 gauge will not work on HO track. Are the shells\bodies also oversized for HO if they are repowered with an HO mechanism as in the Hallmark\Lionel N&W I was asking about yesterday. I have a Bowser 4-8-4 kit for a Bachmann N&W J-Class. Does anyone have any experience or opinion on the fit, operational ability on a layout, and proportional comparison of that engine to HO engines. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3655	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

Attachments : Don, The OO engine is bigger... by about 13%, if I use the 1/76 as a ratio. It will not work... sitting the two side-by-side, it is obvious, I regret not having taken a picture of the brass engine with another engine as comparison, but believe me, it will not look right if you do.... Sean donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: Thanks Sean, John. OK, then. If I'm understanding these 2 answers correctly an engine that is in 00 gauge will not work on HO track. Are the shells\bodies also oversized for HO if they are repowered with an HO mechanism as in the Hallmark\Lionel N&W I was asking about yesterday. I have a Bowser 4-8-4 kit for a Bachmann N&W J-Class. Does anyone have any experience or opinion on the fit, operational ability on a layout, and proportional comparison of that engine to HO engines. Don V.   Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3656	From: donvdh	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Lionel Helic Drive Springs

Attachments : Lionel Helic Drive Springs - item #140120308611 For you HiFi drive guys - I don't know what engine or drive these apply to but they sound like the set of drive springs on that Geep I sent Curmudgeon. You might take a look if you need some. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3657	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

Attachments : Don V and list: The scale difference between OO gauge and HO gauge is 4 mm vs 3.5 mm. Not a big difference but, very noticeable. Pre WW 2 HO was powered by 6 volts DC, which was changed to 12 volts DC after the War. I would assume that OO gauge/scale was powered by 6 volts, also. Your desire to use a 12 volt motor in a OO locomotive now, should be no problem today as that has nothing to do with the scale size of the locomotive. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3658	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

American OO was popular in the late 1930's in competition with HO.  Just a bit bigger.  Major manufacturers were Lionel, Scale Craft, Nason, and others.  There was a slow comeback after WWII but HO manufacturers got a better start and OO died out since the two were so close in size.   OO track is 19mm or 3/4 inch.  Most ran on regular 12 volts DC. Kemtron made a GP-7 kit and had the dies for the Lionel freight cars post war. There was a nice cast brass F-3 A and B unit--the mfr name escapes me right now, although I have several.  Design was much like the Varney, but had the "Chicken Wire" side panels on the A units.    The Hallmark models are reductions of Lionel O gauge items.   gj     ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:19 AM Subject: [vintageHO] 00 vs HO To show my ignorance and near total lack of model train knowledge again, can someone please explain to me the difference between 00 and HO as far as size in other than mystical percentages. All I know is that 00 is European, HO American. Is 00 metric vs. American ASE measurements? Are the sizes of the equipment different? Will they interchange directly on the HO track? Does 00 use the same voltage range as HO? Will with work on DC or does it use AC? I have no clue. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3659	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

Don, OO is 1/76.2 full size and HO is 1/87.1 full size. Yeah, that's a tad on the confusing side. This may be more help. An HO scale foot is 0.1378 in long and an OO scasle foot is 0.157 in long. HO track gauge is 0.649 in while OO track gauge is 0.750 in. These figures are per the NMRA Standards. Yes, OO is more popular if ones heads east over the big pond. It's the Brits really. When HO was young, modelers in merry olde England were having difficulty fitting motors and such into their locomotives> This is because their bridges and tunnels have much smaller clearences than we in the USA have. Ergo, their locomotive superstructures, prototype and model, are also smaller than our's. I think that the popularity and subsequent availability of HO track and mechanisms precipitated the practice of using OO scale superstructures (for motor clearence) on HO drives and track. I don't have the time right now to research it but there is (or at least was) several HO scales, and more than one OO scale, in use in England, each designated by a subletter (like HOe or HOn etc). The subletter indicates if it was HO, HO with OO shells, finescale, etc. Thing is, there has been a huge amount of HO/OO built in England over the years and it would be difficult to separate the two at this time. Kind of like our O scale that runs on scale 5 ft track gauge instead of the correct 4 ft, 8 & 1/2 in. and will never change because probably 98% of all US O scale out there is built to the 5 ft track gauge. But for American prototypes, an OO superstructure would look all out of proportion on an HO drive, as it should since it would be all out of proportion.. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > BlankTo show my ignorance and near total lack of model train knowledge again, can someone please explain to me the difference between 00 and HO as far as size in other than mystical percentages. All I know is that 00 is European, HO American. Is 00 metric vs. American ASE measurements? Are the sizes of the equipment different? Will they interchange directly on the HO track? Does 00 use the same voltage range as HO? Will with work on DC or does it use AC? I have no clue. Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3660	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

H-O scale is 3.5 millimeters equals a foot, track gauge is 16.5 millimeters.  Since British prototype trains are smaller than US it was difficult to find small enough motors, so the UK retained the 16.5 mm gauge but made the rolling stock scale 4mm = one foot.  To give more room for the then available motors.  American OO is 4mm equals a foor and the track gauge  is 16mm or roughly .750".  The UK OO/HO designation is used for ready to run UK trains.  My  understanding is there are groups in Britain  that model to correct H-0 scale and others that use 19mm track.  US H-0 is 16.5mm gauge with 3.5mm scale.  I do not believe there is any American OO manufactured at this time, but some can be found in on-line auctions.   Roger Aultman         ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 7:19 AM Subject: [vintageHO] 00 vs HO To show my ignorance and near total lack of model train knowledge again, can someone please explain to me the difference between 00 and HO as far as size in other than mystical percentages. All I know is that 00 is European, HO American. Is 00 metric vs. American ASE measurements? Are the sizes of the equipment different? Will they interchange directly on the HO track? Does 00 use the same voltage range as HO? Will with work on DC or does it use AC? I have no clue. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3661	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

Yeah, all correct plus the caveat that since British trains are smaller, and run on narrower track, current OO and HO models can share track if you're not fussy about details. Done it myself, fine results, but why bother...   yours   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: H-O scale is 3.5 millimeters equals a foot, track gauge is 16.5 millimeters.  Since British prototype trains are smaller than US it was difficult to find small enough motors, so the UK retained the 16.5 mm gauge but made the rolling stock scale 4mm = one foot.  To give more room for the then available motors.  American OO is 4mm equals a foor and the track gauge  is 16mm or roughly .750".  The UK OO/HO designation is used for ready to run UK trains.  My  understanding is there are groups in Britain  that model to correct H-0 scale and others that use 19mm track.  US H-0 is 16.5mm gauge with 3.5mm scale.  I do not believe there is any American OO manufactured at this time, but some can be found in on-line auctions.   Roger Aultman         ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 7:19 AM Subject: [vintageHO] 00 vs HO To show my ignorance and near total lack of model train knowledge again, can someone please explain to me the difference between 00 and HO as far as size in other than mystical percentages. All I know is that 00 is European, HO American. Is 00 metric vs. American ASE measurements? Are the sizes of the equipment different? Will they interchange directly on the HO track? Does 00 use the same voltage range as HO? Will with work on DC or does it use AC? I have no clue. Don V. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3662	From: donvdh	Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: 00 vs HO

Attachments : First, thanks to everyone who has had input on this I've learned a lot. Second, a part of my question was - are the Hallmark\Lionel engines close enough in actual size to be motorized and run with regulation sized HO equipment. Some of my Mantua and Bowser pieces are not the same size as some of my other equipment sitting side-by-side but can be interpreted as simply a smaller class engine, in which case it puts them back into a somewhat reasonable perspective. Since I haven't received my Hallmark\Lionel yet I have no clue as to its comparable size. Several replies mentioned having one or more of the Hallmark series. What do those of you who have them think? By the way, if it won't work as I would like it to, I have no shelf queens. Anybody interested in cashing me out on it? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3663	From: donvdh	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Thank you all

Attachments : To the list - I want to thank you all for the great information and references that you've all shared in identifying odd or unusual pieces. Following the references and methods shared I ran down the manufacturer of an old F2A diesel I found in my box labeled repairs and other disasters. Using the fact that it had no undercarriage and the trucks were attached by screws to the shell I started my investigation. I finally was able to ascertain that the engine was one of the first models that Mantua produced with plastic shells. I was and am very grateful for all I have learned in the short time I have been a member of vintageHO. I will have to admit, though, that the Mantua cast into both trucks was also a great hint. Have a good Memorial Day weekend. {:-)!! Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3664	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: 00 vs HO

>... are the Hallmark\Lionel engines close enough in actual size to >be motorized and run with regulation sized HO equipment. As a mere exercise, they could probably be motorized and actually run with standard HO equipment, but good reasons to do so escape me so far. The mismatch alone would be tremendously discordant, if not (kindly) downright unattractive. Despite occasional forays into the toy train aspects of miniature railroading, we usually are expected on this side of the hobby to stick to accurate scale modeling as much as we can. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3665	From: donvdh	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class

Attachments : Thanks Denny. I've never had one and the seller assured me it was accurate HO scale. So much for sellers. I probably won't receive it until late next week with the holiday disturbance in the postal system. I may experiment with it a little just to see if I can motorize it, then probably sell it. Maybe sell it motorized and see if someone as foolish as I am bites on it. Anyone who wants to add an outsized display model - I'm in it $32.00 including shipping. Cash me out plus actual shipping, it's yours. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3666	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class

The only real way to tell is to find drawings of the prototype and measure the model to see how close they are. If I recall, these are pewter, and the wheels don't even turn, do they? Dave > BlankThanks Denny. I've never had one and the seller assured me it was accurate HO scale. So much for sellers. I probably won't receive it until late next week with the holiday disturbance in the postal system. I may experiment with it a little just to see if I can motorize it, then probably sell it. Maybe sell it motorized and see if someone as foolish as I am bites on it. Anyone who wants to add an outsized display model - I'm in it $32.00 including shipping. Cash me out plus actual shipping, it's yours. Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3667	From: Graeme	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

In message <013e01c79ee1$39d4dc30$6401a8c0@roger>, Roger Aultman <raul@...> writes >H-O scale is 3.5 millimeters equals a foot, track gauge is 16.5 >millimeters. Since British prototype trains are smaller than US it was >difficult to find small enough motors, so the UK retained the 16.5 mm >gauge but made the rolling stock scale 4mm = one foot. To give more >room for the then available motors. American OO is 4mm equals a foor >and the track gauge is 16mm or roughly .750". The UK OO/HO >designation is used for ready to run UK trains. My understanding is >there are groups in Britain that model to correct H-0 scale and others >that use 19mm track. I'm not sure that many (any?) people here uses 19mm track, but, yes, ready to run British 00 uses standard H0 track, at 16.5 mm. Serious modellers use EM standard which is the same sized rolling stock on track gauged at 18 mm (hence EM). Ever more serious modellers model to P4, which has a track gauge of 18.83 mm. To get back to the original question, yes, British 00 models by Hornby, Dapol, Bachmann, Heljan etc. will run perfectly well on American H0 track. British 00 track, by Peco, is popular with many US modellers. -- Graeme, Scotland

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3668	From: donvdh	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class

Attachments : Dave - Look at eBay item #260119958398. There are some pretty good pictures of the undercarriage. It appears to be held in by 3 screws, the same as the Bachmann\Lionel 4-8-4's. The drivers and trucks look like they turn, but a picture doesn't always tell the story. A couple of responses said they had some of the Hallmark series. Maybe they could answer that. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3669	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Interesting restoration

Attachments : As some of you know, I am into putting together a train of the Varney celluloid streamliners in the two toned blue & silver colors. I had the grey combine which didn't go with, but I also had ONE side only for a blue coach that was the same length. As an experiment, I had one of the other list members who has an ALPS printer see what he could do. He scanned my side, and recreated it as a decal. The attached photo is the result. The colors are not as vibrant, and the silver came out more grey, as you can tell by comparing with the ends on either side in the photo, but passing by in a train it's acceptable. PING to John, I messed up two decals figuring out how best to do it, what would it take to have you print a couple more sheets? I have the floor and roof stock to do at least one more, and can easily get more, Walthers has it in stock. BTW, I do now have a pair of gently used grey combine sides I would be willing to trade, ideally for any blue combine, coach or diner sides. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3670	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO

I plan to exercise what OO locos I have on the On3 layout-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Denny Anspach To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re:00 vs HO >... are the Hallmark\Lionel engines close enough in actual size to >be motorized and run with regulation sized HO equipment. As a mere exercise, they could probably be motorized and actually run with standard HO equipment, but good reasons to do so escape me so far. The mismatch alone would be tremendously discordant, if not (kindly) downright unattractive. Despite occasional forays into the toy train aspects of miniature railroading, we usually are expected on this side of the hobby to stick to accurate scale modeling as much as we can. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3671	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class

Don--what are these attachments with "blank background?"  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 9:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class Thanks Denny. I've never had one and the seller assured me it was accurate HO scale. So much for sellers. I probably won't receive it until late next week with the holiday disturbance in the postal system. I may experiment with it a little just to see if I can motorize it, then probably sell it. Maybe sell it motorized and see if someone as foolish as I am bites on it. Anyone who wants to add an outsized display model - I'm in it $32.00 including shipping. Cash me out plus actual shipping, it's yours. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3672	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class

Don--this thread raised my curiosity--so I went out to "the Basement" and checked.  There was a series of five  called the "Twentieth Century Series" that had the GG1, 671 Turbine, 726 Berkshire, 773 Hudson, and 2333 NYC F3 (2 units. Then they began a second series with the #746 N&W that you have.  I have all, including a duplicate on the F3's--Interesting pieces, but somewhat strange.  I thought of motorizing the F3's using NWSL On3 wheels, but then I got a bunch of Schorr brass, scale-proportioned F3's--  I do collect the Hallmark ornaments in N Scale size--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 9:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class Thanks Denny. I've never had one and the seller assured me it was accurate HO scale. So much for sellers. I probably won't receive it until late next week with the holiday disturbance in the postal system. I may experiment with it a little just to see if I can motorize it, then probably sell it. Maybe sell it motorized and see if someone as foolish as I am bites on it. Anyone who wants to add an outsized display model - I'm in it $32.00 including shipping. Cash me out plus actual shipping, it's yours. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3673	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class

Dave--the Hallmark locos are scaled down from the corresponding Lionel O Gauge locos--nowhere near scaled from prototype dimensions--other than possibly the 773 Hudson and the F3's.  Brings to mind the late PJ Bresee's 3.55:1 :model" of a Lionel 408E---that was 3.55 times the sized of the Lionel--ran on 7.5" gauge track--BATTERY POWERED!.  PJ was a Funeral Director and transported his trains in his hearse.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 1:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class The only real way to tell is to find drawings of the prototype and measure the model to see how close they are. If I recall, these are pewter, and the wheels don't even turn, do they? Dave > BlankThanks Denny. I've never had one and the seller assured me it was accurate HO scale. So much for sellers. I probably won't receive it until late next week with the holiday disturbance in the postal system. I may experiment with it a little just to see if I can motorize it, then probably sell it. Maybe sell it motorized and see if someone as foolish as I am bites on it. Anyone who wants to add an outsized display model - I'm in it $32.00 including shipping. Cash me out plus actual shipping, it's yours. Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3674	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting restoration

Don, my understanding ids that ALPS make a Silver cartridge as well - should still be available, as ALPS is not out of business; they just don't selll those printers in the USA. We are too impatient, preferring speed to quality(where have I heard that before... oh, I know! I said it myself... lol)   (BTW: Price, Quality, Speed <---- pick any two)   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut - quality etching only) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: As some of you know, I am into putting together a train of the Varney celluloid streamliners in the two toned blue & silver colors. I had the grey combine which didn't go with, but I also had ONE side only for a blue coach that was the same length. As an experiment, I had one of the other list members who has an ALPS printer see what he could do. He scanned my side, and recreated it as a decal. The attached photo is the result. The colors are not as vibrant, and the silver came out more grey, as you can tell by comparing with the ends on either side in the photo, but passing by in a train it's acceptable. PING to John, I messed up two decals figuring out how best to do it, what would it take to have you print a couple more sheets? I have the floor and roof stock to do at least one more, and can easily get more, Walthers has it in stock. BTW, I do now have a pair of gently used grey combine sides I would be willing to trade, ideally for any blue combine, coach or diner sides. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3675	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting restoration

Funny you should ping me as the other day I printed up some Milwaukee Northern yellow decals that WORK! It's only half of a 6 X 9 sheet so I'm going to do a full sheet and send it to you soon. Do me a favor and email the car side photo to me so I can get a look at it. I do not have individual email on any but my own group just for expediencies sake. I can print additional sides for you but if you're not in a rush I may get a metallic silver cartridge and try to improve the stripes. I do have a metallic gold one that I'm playing around with on another project. If it goes good I will look for a silver cartridge. I'll let you know. Also I try to brighten up the blue. I'm out of town til Tuesday but I will be checking the group site. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > As some of you know, I am into putting together a train of the Varney > celluloid streamliners in the two toned blue & silver colors. I had the > grey combine which didn't go with, but I also had ONE side only for a blue > coach that was the same length. > > As an experiment, I had one of the other list members who has an ALPS > printer see what he could do. He scanned my side, and recreated it as a > decal. > > The attached photo is the result. The colors are not as vibrant, and the > silver came out more grey, as you can tell by comparing with the ends on > either side in the photo, but passing by in a train it's acceptable. > > PING to John, I messed up two decals figuring out how best to do it, what > would it take to have you print a couple more sheets? I have the floor and > roof stock to do at least one more, and can easily get more, Walthers has it > in stock. > > BTW, I do now have a pair of gently used grey combine sides I would be > willing to trade, ideally for any blue combine, coach or diner sides. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3676	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class

Well here goes.... I have all of the items issued in the Hallmark "Great American Railways" series. The N&W 746 was one of the items issued and is the only one that didn't include a display case for the loco and drivers do turn. Although not a complete list, I know the following were issued (I'm too lazy to dig them all out to look): 726 Berkshire N&W 746 NYC AA F7 NYC 773 Hudson All of these are postwar item reproductions. Among the unexplainable missing are the General and 0-6-0 switcher. None of them will sit on HO track and they clearly are OO in size. Steam items all have drivers with plastic spokes that would not lend themselves to motorizing. All come complete with tenders. The only one I paid retail price for was the 773 Hudson. The rest I won on ebay and paid a total of less than $200 for all of them including another 773. They appear regularly on ebay. Joe O'Loughlin No rolling stock was ever issued. If anyone is really interested I will dig out the 2 I can't remember. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > BlankDave - Look at eBay item #260119958398. There are some pretty good pictures of the undercarriage. It appears to be held in by 3 screws, the same as the Bachmann\Lionel 4-8-4's. The drivers and trucks look like they turn, but a picture doesn't always tell the story. A couple of responses said they had some of the Hallmark series. Maybe they could answer that. Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3677	From: donvdh	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Hallmark\Lionel N&W J-Class

Attachments : Thanks Joe. As I said earlier the seller assured me twice it was HO gauge. So much for sellers. You want another N&W 746? $32.00 plus shipping insurance included. It looks in the picture as if the whole undercarriage can be removed. The location of the screws appears to be pretty much the same as The Bachmann\Lionel N&W's. That's why I thought I would give it a try. I doubt from all everyone has said that I could adapt a drive chassis into it. In the pictures it does have a display track, still wrapped in the plastic baggy it came in. No display case. I really do appreciate all the information everyone has contributed on it. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3678	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class

There was rolling stock issued with the N & W loco I have a stock car from the set. Here is an example on ebay. My locos are currently stored away otherwise I would take some pictures. One of the other locos issued was a PRR Turbine.   James Bartelt jimbartelt@... Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079 METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html ----- Original Message ---- From: oljoeoh <oljoe@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 6:46:02 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class Well here goes.... I have all of the items issued in the Hallmark "Great American Railways" series. The N&W 746 was one of the items issued and is the only one that didn't include a display case for the loco and drivers do turn. Although not a complete list, I know the following were issued (I'm too lazy to dig them all out to look): 726 Berkshire N&W 746 NYC AA F7 NYC 773 Hudson All of these are postwar item reproductions. Among the unexplainable missing are the General and 0-6-0 switcher. None of them will sit on HO track and they clearly are OO in size. Steam items all have drivers with plastic spokes that would not lend themselves to motorizing. All come complete with tenders. The only one I paid retail price for was the 773 Hudson. The rest I won on ebay and paid a total of less than $200 for all of them including another 773. They appear regularly on ebay. Joe O'Loughlin No rolling stock was ever issued. If anyone is really interested I will dig out the 2 I can't remember. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > BlankDave - Look at eBay item #260119958398. There are some pretty good pictures of the undercarriage. It appears to be held in by 3 screws, the same as the Bachmann\Lionel 4-8-4's. The drivers and trucks look like they turn, but a picture doesn't always tell the story. A couple of responses said they had some of the Hallmark series. Maybe they could answer that. Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3679	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class

Guess I forgot the ebay link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Hallmark-Great-American-Railways-Lionel-Horse-Car-3356_W0QQitemZ120124719220QQihZ002QQcategoryZ130QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem  plus they did make a GG1 with the display case. James Bartelt jimbartelt@... Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079 METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html ----- Original Message ---- From: "jimbartelt@..." <jimbartelt@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 10:30:40 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class There was rolling stock issued with the N & W loco I have a stock car from the set. Here is an example on ebay. My locos are currently stored away otherwise I would take some pictures. One of the other locos issued was a PRR Turbine.   James Bartelt jimbartelt@sbcgloba l.net Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s http://albums. photo.epson. com/j/AlbumList? u=1751079 METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrc lub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 http://members. trainorders. com/scrimjimmy/ spring.html ----- Original Message ---- From: oljoeoh <oljoe@landolls. com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 6:46:02 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class Well here goes.... I have all of the items issued in the Hallmark "Great American Railways" series. The N&W 746 was one of the items issued and is the only one that didn't include a display case for the loco and drivers do turn. Although not a complete list, I know the following were issued (I'm too lazy to dig them all out to look): 726 Berkshire N&W 746 NYC AA F7 NYC 773 Hudson All of these are postwar item reproductions. Among the unexplainable missing are the General and 0-6-0 switcher. None of them will sit on HO track and they clearly are OO in size. Steam items all have drivers with plastic spokes that would not lend themselves to motorizing. All come complete with tenders. The only one I paid retail price for was the 773 Hudson. The rest I won on ebay and paid a total of less than $200 for all of them including another 773. They appear regularly on ebay. Joe O'Loughlin No rolling stock was ever issued. If anyone is really interested I will dig out the 2 I can't remember. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > BlankDave - Look at eBay item #260119958398. There are some pretty good pictures of the undercarriage. It appears to be held in by 3 screws, the same as the Bachmann\Lionel 4-8-4's. The drivers and trucks look like they turn, but a picture doesn't always tell the story. A couple of responses said they had some of the Hallmark series. Maybe they could answer that. Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3680	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class

Yep - and the other loco was the GG1. Never knew about a stock car. Were there any others? Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, jimbartelt@... wrote: > > There was rolling stock issued with the N & W loco I have a stock car from the set. Here is an example on ebay. My locos are currently stored away otherwise I would take some pictures. One of the other locos issued was a PRR Turbine. > > James Bartelt > jimbartelt@... > > Jim¢s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo¢s > http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079 > > METRO RR Club > http://www.metrorrclub.org > > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 > http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: oljoeoh <oljoe@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 6:46:02 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class > > Well here goes.... I have all of the items issued in > the Hallmark "Great American Railways" series. > The N&W 746 was one of the items issued and is the > only one that didn't include a display case for the > loco and drivers do turn. Although not a complete list, I know > the following were issued (I'm too lazy to dig them all > out to look): > 726 Berkshire > N&W 746 > NYC AA F7 > NYC 773 Hudson > All of these are postwar item reproductions. > Among the unexplainable missing are the General > and 0-6-0 switcher. > None of them will sit on HO track and they clearly > are OO in size. Steam items all have drivers with > plastic spokes that would not lend themselves to > motorizing. All come complete with tenders. The only > one I paid retail price for was the 773 Hudson. The > rest I won on ebay and paid a total of less than $200 for all of > them including another 773. They appear regularly on ebay. > Joe O'Loughlin > > No rolling stock was ever issued. > > If anyone is really interested I will dig out the 2 I > can't remember. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: > > > > BlankDave - Look at eBay item #260119958398. There are some pretty > good pictures of the undercarriage. It appears to be held in by 3 > screws, the same as the Bachmann\Lionel 4-8-4's. The drivers and > trucks look like they turn, but a picture doesn't always tell the > story. A couple of responses said they had some of the Hallmark > series. Maybe they could answer that. Don V. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3681	From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class

Nope the stock car was the first and the last. I think they planned to do more but thats when the series kind of went flat and the demand dropped.   James Bartelt jimbartelt@... Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079 METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html ----- Original Message ---- From: oljoeoh <oljoe@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 11:12:38 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class Yep - and the other loco was the GG1. Never knew about a stock car. Were there any others? Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, jimbartelt@. .. wrote: > > There was rolling stock issued with the N & W loco I have a stock car from the set. Here is an example on ebay. My locos are currently stored away otherwise I would take some pictures. One of the other locos issued was a PRR Turbine. > > James Bartelt > jimbartelt@. .. > > Jim¢s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo¢s > http://albums. photo.epson. com/j/AlbumList? u=1751079 > > METRO RR Club > http://www.metrorrc lub.org > > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 > http://members. trainorders. com/scrimjimmy/ spring.html > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: oljoeoh <oljoe@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 6:46:02 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class > > Well here goes.... I have all of the items issued in > the Hallmark "Great American Railways" series. > The N&W 746 was one of the items issued and is the > only one that didn't include a display case for the > loco and drivers do turn. Although not a complete list, I know > the following were issued (I'm too lazy to dig them all > out to look): > 726 Berkshire > N&W 746 > NYC AA F7 > NYC 773 Hudson > All of these are postwar item reproductions. > Among the unexplainable missing are the General > and 0-6-0 switcher. > None of them will sit on HO track and they clearly > are OO in size. Steam items all have drivers with > plastic spokes that would not lend themselves to > motorizing. All come complete with tenders. The only > one I paid retail price for was the 773 Hudson. The > rest I won on ebay and paid a total of less than $200 for all of > them including another 773. They appear regularly on ebay. > Joe O'Loughlin > > No rolling stock was ever issued. > > If anyone is really interested I will dig out the 2 I > can't remember. > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: > > > > BlankDave - Look at eBay item #260119958398. There are some pretty > good pictures of the undercarriage. It appears to be held in by 3 > screws, the same as the Bachmann\Lionel 4-8-4's. The drivers and > trucks look like they turn, but a picture doesn't always tell the > story. A couple of responses said they had some of the Hallmark > series. Maybe they could answer that. Don V. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3682	From: oljoeoh	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class

Any idea what the price of that car was? Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, jimbartelt@... wrote: > > Nope the stock car was the first and the last. I think they planned to do more but thats when the series kind of went flat and the demand dropped. > > James Bartelt > jimbartelt@... > > Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's > http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079 > > METRO RR Club > http://www.metrorrclub.org > > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 > http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: oljoeoh <oljoe@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 11:12:38 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class > > Yep - and the other loco was the GG1. Never knew about > a stock car. Were there any others? > Joe O'Loughlin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, jimbartelt@ .. wrote: > > > > There was rolling stock issued with the N & W loco I have a stock > car from the set. Here is an example on ebay. My locos are currently > stored away otherwise I would take some pictures. One of the other > locos issued was a PRR Turbine. > > > > James Bartelt > > jimbartelt@ .. > > > > Jim¢s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo¢s > > http://albums. photo.epson. com/j/AlbumList? u=1751079 > > > > METRO RR Club > > http://www.metrorrc lub.org > > > > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007 > > http://members. trainorders. com/scrimjimmy/ spring.html > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: oljoeoh <oljoe@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 6:46:02 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class > > > > Well here goes.... I have all of the items issued in > > the Hallmark "Great American Railways" series. > > The N&W 746 was one of the items issued and is the > > only one that didn't include a display case for the > > loco and drivers do turn. Although not a complete list, I know > > the following were issued (I'm too lazy to dig them all > > out to look): > > 726 Berkshire > > N&W 746 > > NYC AA F7 > > NYC 773 Hudson > > All of these are postwar item reproductions. > > Among the unexplainable missing are the General > > and 0-6-0 switcher. > > None of them will sit on HO track and they clearly > > are OO in size. Steam items all have drivers with > > plastic spokes that would not lend themselves to > > motorizing. All come complete with tenders. The only > > one I paid retail price for was the 773 Hudson. The > > rest I won on ebay and paid a total of less than $200 for all of > > them including another 773. They appear regularly on ebay. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > No rolling stock was ever issued. > > > > If anyone is really interested I will dig out the 2 I > > can't remember. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: > > > > > > BlankDave - Look at eBay item #260119958398. There are some pretty > > good pictures of the undercarriage. It appears to be held in by 3 > > screws, the same as the Bachmann\Lionel 4-8-4's. The drivers and > > trucks look like they turn, but a picture doesn't always tell the > > story. A couple of responses said they had some of the Hallmark > > series. Maybe they could answer that. Don V. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3683	From: donvdh	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Hallmark Cattle Car

Attachments : Joe: eBay Item number: 120124719220 - $19.95 - 3 1\2 days to go. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3684	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting restoration

Well guys....... Alps silver metallic is a very solid and quite shiny color. I'm sure you'll like it's look........ Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On May 26, 2007, at 10:05 PM, John Hagen wrote: > Funny you should ping me as the other day I printed up some Milwaukee > Northern yellow decals that WORK............. > Do me a favor and email the car side photo to me ............. > you're not in a rush I may get a metallic silver cartridge and try to > improve the stripes. I do have a metallic gold one that I'm playing > around with on another project. If it goes good I will look for a > silver cartridge. I'll let you know. Also I try to brighten up the > blue........ > > --- In "Don Dellmann" > wrote: >> >> As some of you know, I am into putting together a train of the > Varney >> celluloid streamliners in the two toned blue & silver colors.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3685	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class

Joe--I think I listed the ones you missed--the PRR Turbine and the GG-1.  Perhaps a chassis from a Scale Craft 4-8-4 might be used to power these, or better yet--power a tender with a modified and re-gauged Athearn diesel drive. But since they are reductions of Lionel-proportioned locos, why bother. ----- Original Message ----- From: oljoeoh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 4:46 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class Well here goes.... I have all of the items issued in the Hallmark "Great American Railways" series. The N&W 746 was one of the items issued and is the only one that didn't include a display case for the loco and drivers do turn. Although not a complete list, I know the following were issued (I'm too lazy to dig them all out to look): 726 Berkshire N&W 746 NYC AA F7 NYC 773 Hudson All of these are postwar item reproductions. Among the unexplainable missing are the General and 0-6-0 switcher. None of them will sit on HO track and they clearly are OO in size. Steam items all have drivers with plastic spokes that would not lend themselves to motorizing. All come complete with tenders. The only one I paid retail price for was the 773 Hudson. The rest I won on ebay and paid a total of less than $200 for all of them including another 773. They appear regularly on ebay. Joe O'Loughlin No rolling stock was ever issued. If anyone is really interested I will dig out the 2 I can't remember. Joe O'Loughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > BlankDave - Look at eBay item #260119958398. There are some pretty good pictures of the undercarriage. It appears to be held in by 3 screws, the same as the Bachmann\Lionel 4-8-4's. The drivers and trucks look like they turn, but a picture doesn't always tell the story. A couple of responses said they had some of the Hallmark series. Maybe they could answer that. Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3686	From: donvdh	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: conversion feet to 1\87th

Attachments : Can some one please share with me the formula for converting feet to 1\87th?   Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3687	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: conversion feet to 1\87th

Attachments : Several ways to do this, the easiest being to get a scale rule.   If you have a calculator handy, divide the whole number of feet(ignoring inches for the moment) by 87.1(HO scale) and then do the inches separately.   Multiply the result by 12 to get inches for measuing stuff. At least, that's the way I do it.   Happy Memorial day(almost belated now).   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: Can some one please share with me the formula for converting feet to 1\87th?   Don V.   Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3688	From: donvdh	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Once again, Hallmark Lionel

Attachments : If anyone is interested or has a collection short a horse car this has 5 days to go on eBay. The same seller has 3 GG-1s listed. I didn't copy the item number but the Berkshire is also listed with about 7 days to go. I mentioned it obliquely but was serious - I will sell the N&W J-Class I bought for $32.00 plus shipping. Hope everyone had a good holiday. Don V. Item number: 320119596550 -Hallmark Lionel 3356 Horse Car - Mint in Box

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3689	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Building a model.........

Would you believe.......... Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... as an animation....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKYC7O64pNg  Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3690	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: conversion feet to 1\87th

just divide the measurement in feet by 87.1  ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 1:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] conversion feet to 1\87th Can some one please share with me the formula for converting feet to 1\87th?   Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3691	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

Wow!     That was cool!          but....         why?    Why a sewing machine?    Sean Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: Would you believe..... ..... Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... as an animation... .... http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rKYC7O64pNg  Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3692	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

Maybe it just fits on the shelf better in that size ??? Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On May 28, 2007, at 7:56 PM, sean naylor wrote: Wow!     That was cool!          but....         why?    Why a sewing machine?    Sean Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: Would you believe..... ..... Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... as an animation... .... http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rKYC7O64pNg   Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3693	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

Because those little people on his layout are going to need clothes come winter time.........:-) _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine�s 2007 editors� choice for best Web mail�award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3694	From: Jack Priller	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

Builder has both more patience and more skill than I do! Jack Priller --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Would you believe.......... > > Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... > > as an animation....... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKYC7O64pNg > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3695	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

First GE's now Singers. Next we'll be modeling Hotpoints. John Hagen The great city of Milwaukee, Wisconsin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...> wrote: > > Builder has both more patience and more skill than I do! > > Jack Priller > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@> wrote: > > > > Would you believe.......... > > > > Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... > > > > as an animation....... > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKYC7O64pNg > > > > Best to ya' > > Mike Bauers > > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3696	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

ummm... I duno what a hotpoint is, but if has anything to do with anatomy, I think this is the wrong forum for it???   Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: First GE's now Singers. Next we'll be modeling Hotpoints. John Hagen The great city of Milwaukee, Wisconsin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@. ..> wrote: > > Builder has both more patience and more skill than I do! > > Jack Priller > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@ > wrote: > > > > Would you believe..... ..... > > > > Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... > > > > as an animation... .... > > > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rKYC7O64pNg > > > > Best to ya' > > Mike Bauers > > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3697	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

Hotpoint is/was a brand of appliances...washing machines, dryers etc.  It would be appropriate in a scale home on a layout as would the sewing machine. Either would be dinky in HO or N. sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: ummm... I duno what a hotpoint is, but if has anything to do with anatomy, I think this is the wrong forum for it???   Sean John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: First GE's now Singers. Next we'll be modeling Hotpoints. John Hagen The great city of Milwaukee, Wisconsin --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@. ..> wrote: > > Builder has both more patience and more skill than I do! > > Jack Priller > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@ > wrote: > > > > Would you believe..... ..... > > > > Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... > > > > as an animation... .... > > > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rKYC7O64pNg > > > > Best to ya' > > Mike Bauers > > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3698	From: Jack Priller	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

"Hotpoint" was a maker of kitchen appliances: stoves, refrigerators, etc. Of interest as models to folks on this type list only to those who do fully-detailed interiors in their buildings. If someone were to make a WORKING model of a Hotpoint refrigerator in HO to keep their scale beer cold... Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > ummm... I duno what a hotpoint is, but if has anything to do with anatomy, I think this is the wrong forum for it??? > > Sean > > John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: > First GE's now Singers. Next we'll be modeling Hotpoints. > > John Hagen > The great city of Milwaukee, Wisconsin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@> > wrote: > > > > Builder has both more patience and more skill than I do! > > > > Jack Priller > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@> wrote: > > > > > > Would you believe.......... > > > > > > Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... > > > > > > as an animation....... > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKYC7O64pNg > > > > > > Best to ya' > > > Mike Bauers > > > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3699	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

Oh to be sooooooooooo young again....................:-) _________________________________________________________________ Catch suspicious messages before you open them�with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_protection_0507

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3700	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

I see... My prior comment was my failed attempt at being funny...   As for fully detailed structure interiors... I am one of those fanatics.... In my late teens, I once spent 3 months building a barn from scratch. Week nights and weekends (all night long on friday & saturday). I built the interior loft and all details, including, but not limited to work bench with hand tools, multiple paint cans (with paint spills) on a shelf with a compressor, air line and spray can. broken and boarded windows, holes in the roof covered with alluminum foil patching & boards,  working doors, staircase & loft all built from scaled lumber (that I cut to scale - I had no money for the prepackaged stuff) and individual shingles made from tissue paper, which I stained black on the underside and multiple shades of red & black on the top. I even built the sagging roof in layers, first wood planks, then tar paper then shingles. It took another 3 months to do the outside. (as I was a dork, not much unlike I am now, however I had not yet discovered the female anatomy - that changed everything!)   I still have the barn... after many moves... the roof has now fully colapsed onto the loft. I need to fix it or leave it as an abandined building.   Every chance I get, I buy the interior details. I even have a couple sets of dinner ware...   Did anyone see the passenger car pictures I just posted?   Sean Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote: "Hotpoint" was a maker of kitchen appliances: stoves, refrigerators, etc. Of interest as models to folks on this type list only to those who do fully-detailed interiors in their buildings. If someone were to make a WORKING model of a Hotpoint refrigerator in HO to keep their scale beer cold... Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > ummm... I duno what a hotpoint is, but if has anything to do with anatomy, I think this is the wrong forum for it??? > > Sean > > John Hagen <sprinthag@. ..> wrote: > First GE's now Singers. Next we'll be modeling Hotpoints. > > John Hagen > The great city of Milwaukee, Wisconsin > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@> > wrote: > > > > Builder has both more patience and more skill than I do! > > > > Jack Priller > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@ > wrote: > > > > > > Would you believe..... ..... > > > > > > Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... > > > > > > as an animation... .... > > > > > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rKYC7O64pNg > > > > > > Best to ya' > > > Mike Bauers > > > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3701	From: Frank Nagy	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: handrails

I recently purchased a ' 60's era Athearn GP35 which did not have any walkway railings included. I would appreciate any help I can get in obtaining a set of railings for this engine.   Thanks...Frank Nagy Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3702	From: Wobbly913	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: handrails

They are Athearn part # ATH42019.  Your local hobby shop may well have them, if not then Ed at hoseeker.net, there is always ebay or even Horizon Hobby horizonhobby.com directly. Frank Nagy <internagy@...> wrote: I recently purchased a ' 60's era Athearn GP35 which did not have any walkway railings included. I would appreciate any help I can get in obtaining a set of railings for this engine.   Thanks...Frank Nagy Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3703	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: handrails

Here's the source....... http://www.athearn.com/Products/Parts/Default.aspx Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On May 29, 2007, at 2:15 PM, Wobbly913 wrote: They are Athearn part # ATH42019.  Your local hobby shop may well have them, if not then Ed at hoseeker.net, there is always ebay or even Horizon Hobby horizonhobby.com directly. Frank Nagy <internagy@...> wrote: I recently purchased a ' 60's era Athearn GP35 which did not have any walkway railings included. I would appreciate any help I can get in obtaining a set of railings for this engine.   Thanks...Frank Nagy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3704	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

Well........ he does make it look almost easy. Think of it like this............ it's just working on one part at a time..... I wouldn't do this for a sewing machine....... But I could enjoy doing the like for a RR model. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On May 28, 2007, at 9:24 PM, Jack Priller wrote: > Builder has both more patience and more skill than I do! > > Jack Priller > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> Would you believe.......... >> >> Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... >> >> as an animation....... >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKYC7O64pNg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3705	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

Patience is the key... more so than skill.. Sean Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: Well........ he does make it look almost easy. Think of it like this........ .... it's just working on one part at a time..... I wouldn't do this for a sewing machine..... .. But I could enjoy doing the like for a RR model. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On May 28, 2007, at 9:24 PM, Jack Priller wrote: > Builder has both more patience and more skill than I do! > > Jack Priller > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@ ...> wrote: >> >> Would you believe..... ..... >> >> Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... >> >> as an animation... .... >> >> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rKYC7O64pNg Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3706	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

If you look at live steam projects by a fellow named Kozo Hiraoka (Live Steam magazine and several books) you will see all sort of similar cleverness to make complex parts from simple basic shapes by brazing parts, then machining, and such. Extreme cleverness, actually. And some of those ideas can be no doubt be used for making this or that part in HO that might be easier to do with such clever tricks and some planning. Chuck Kinzer Quoting Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>: > Well........ he does make it look almost easy. > > Think of it like this............ it's just working on one part at a > time..... I wouldn't do this for a sewing machine....... But I could > enjoy doing the like for a RR model. > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3707	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

Vintage Mel Thornburgh articles do the same with nicely simple tools........ Well worth looking up in the MR index and ordering copies from the NMRA/Kalmbach library. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On May 29, 2007, at 4:45 PM, ckinzer@... wrote: > If you look at live steam projects by a fellow named Kozo Hiraoka > (Live Steam magazine and several books) you will see all sort of > similar cleverness to make complex parts from simple basic shapes by > brazing parts, then machining, and such. Extreme cleverness, > actually. And some of those ideas can be no doubt be used for making > this or that part in HO that might be easier to do with such clever > tricks and some planning. > > Chuck Kinzer > > Quoting Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>: > >> Well........ he does make it look almost easy. >> >> Think of it like this............ it's just working on one part at a >> time..... I wouldn't do this for a sewing machine....... But I could >> enjoy doing the like for a RR model. >> >> Best to ya' >> Mike Bauers >> Milwaukee Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3708	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building a model......... > First GE's now Singers. Next we'll be modeling Hotpoints. > > John Hagen > The great city of Milwaukee, Wisconsin http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Proto_Piano_Modeling/ Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3709	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........

On May 29, 2007, at 4:23 PM, sean naylor wrote: Patience is the key... more so than skill.. Sean I sure hope so......... I've been waiting for ages to get some model making machinery....... I must have the patience....... With the release of the about $550 cnc-cutters, [suitable for heavy card-stock cutting, other materials, and possibly sheet styrene scoring for score and snap construction], in a couple of weeks, I get to see if I have the right skills to go with the chore...... I think I can, I think I can.......... Next Generation Paul Moore's, re-engineered to todays tech .........  finally......... At least the bulk of the body construction..... Hopefully in sheet after sheet of rapidly cut parts to build fleets.......... And lots of other fun RR things to try out...... Well, at least I've got the patience for it......... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: Well........ he does make it look almost easy. Think of it like this........ .... it's just working on one part at a time..... I wouldn't do this for a sewing machine..... .. But I could enjoy doing the like for a RR model. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On May 28, 2007, at 9:24 PM, Jack Priller wrote: > Builder has both more patience and more skill than I do! > > Jack Priller > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@ ...> wrote: >> >> Would you believe..... ..... >> >> Building a model Singers sewing machine in wood....... >> >> as an animation... .... >> >> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rKYC7O64pNg Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3710	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: handrails

They could still be available from Athearn--they still make the loco--might be better than the originals, though--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Nagy To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:32 AM Subject: [vintageHO] handrails I recently purchased a ' 60's era Athearn GP35 which did not have any walkway railings included. I would appreciate any help I can get in obtaining a set of railings for this engine.   Thanks...Frank Nagy Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3711	From: greendoddz	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: My Lionel & Intro

I guess I should have joined this group a long time ago... unlike many folks in the hobby, I did NOT start out with Lionel or Flyer, but with the subject of this list: Vintage HO. My very first operable (and I use the term loosely) train was made by "Circle Twenty". It was roughly HO gauge, on 2-rail tinplate track and used an AC transformer. The rolling stock was a thick hollow plastic shell with one axle at each end, painted a solid color with a silver sticker on each side that said "Circle Twenty". It died famously when I was about 3 years old. I grew up with Mantua steamers, Mantua, MDC, Varney, and Athearn metal cars that my parents had procured... by the time I was 8-9 years old all the new stuff we were buying was plastic. I even had some "HO by Lionel"... I think my HO exploding box car was Lionel badged; I also had a Santa Fe fluted coach that was similar in construction to the Tyco/Mantua cars but slightly longer and a different window arrangement. Seems like Lionel HO was always made by somebody else... including the Athearn-made GP7 and ersatz E33 electric. We also had a few pieces of Fleischmann... German prototypes with tinplate sides painted in UP colors. One of my sentimental favorites remains the John English Hobbyline cast metal passenger cars. There was a combine and a coach - often died of zamac disease, or warped into the shape of a Spanish galion. Similar cars were done in plastic under the Penn Line and Varney labels, and are still available (with the addition of a shorty diner, Pullman, and obs) in the Life-Like toy line. I have been admittedly dabbling on ebay the past couple of years and buying intact versions of stuff I had as a kid now long destroyed... including the Fleischmann UP "Pullman", and even a dual motor Mantua "F9" in B&O.... in the original box even. It's really a fun diversion from prototype modeling. I've even though about building a small 4x8 layout with brass fiber tie flex track, to hook up my Marn-O-Power and run those old ozone-smelling, open-frame beasties. And keep the brite boy handy. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3712	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro

Welcome, Andy!   You'll find the guyrs here friendly and even verbose.    I joined with the idea that I could find out more about some things I acquired - not all complete stuff, but intreseting nevertheless.   I personally don't mind mixing old and new on a layout as I am hardly a purist.   Welcome again!   Fred Hultbergresident etching wizard, Fotocut) greendoddz <greendoddz@...> wrote: I guess I should have joined this group a long time ago... unlike many folks in the hobby, I did NOT start out with Lionel or Flyer, but with the subject of this list: Vintage HO. My very first operable (and I use the term loosely) train was made by "Circle Twenty". It was roughly HO gauge, on 2-rail tinplate track and used an AC transformer. The rolling stock was a thick hollow plastic shell with one axle at each end, painted a solid color with a silver sticker on each side that said "Circle Twenty". It died famously when I was about 3 years old. I grew up with Mantua steamers, Mantua, MDC, Varney, and Athearn metal cars that my parents had procured... by the time I was 8-9 years old all the new stuff we were buying was plastic. I even had some "HO by Lionel"... I think my HO exploding box car was Lionel badged; I also had a Santa Fe fluted coach that was similar in construction to the Tyco/Mantua cars but slightly longer and a different window arrangement. Seems like Lionel HO was always made by somebody else... including the Athearn-made GP7 and ersatz E33 electric. We also had a few pieces of Fleischmann... German prototypes with tinplate sides painted in UP colors. One of my sentimental favorites remains the John English Hobbyline cast metal passenger cars. There was a combine and a coach - often died of zamac disease, or warped into the shape of a Spanish galion. Similar cars were done in plastic under the Penn Line and Varney labels, and are still available (with the addition of a shorty diner, Pullman, and obs) in the Life-Like toy line. I have been admittedly dabbling on ebay the past couple of years and buying intact versions of stuff I had as a kid now long destroyed... including the Fleischmann UP "Pullman", and even a dual motor Mantua "F9" in B&O.... in the original box even. It's really a fun diversion from prototype modeling. I've even though about building a small 4x8 layout with brass fiber tie flex track, to hook up my Marn-O-Power and run those old ozone-smelling, open-frame beasties. And keep the brite boy handy. Andy Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3713	From: greendoddz	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > > I personally don't mind mixing old and new on a layout as I am hardly a purist. > > Welcome again! Thanks... I can't mix too much right now because my "layout" (3+ rooms of Kato track on the floor) is DCC, which doesn't get along too well with my oldies. I can hook up the Marn-O-Power, but I have to remove anything else that draws power. That's why I was thinking of building a small vintage layout for fun. Or setting up a dedicated loop of Kato if I can find any more floor space. I bought a complete, marginally operable Gilbert NP passenger set about a year ago. All four cars intact, two locos with Varney drives. There was a bunch of brass snap track in with it, but it was in pretty bad shape so I just tossed it. I will post some photos soon... not just of my current collection of vintage stuff but some actual vintage photos from the 1960s... Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3714	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro

----- Original Message ----- From: "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My Lionel & Intro > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: >> >> I personally don't mind mixing old and new on a layout as I am > hardly a purist. >> >> Welcome again! > > Thanks... I can't mix too much right now because my "layout" (3+ > rooms of Kato track on the floor) is DCC, which doesn't get along too > well with my oldies. I can hook up the Marn-O-Power, but I have to > remove anything else that draws power. That's why I was thinking of > building a small vintage layout for fun. Or setting up a dedicated > loop of Kato if I can find any more floor space. > > I bought a complete, marginally operable Gilbert NP passenger set > about a year ago. All four cars intact, two locos with Varney drives. > There was a bunch of brass snap track in with it, but it was in > pretty bad shape so I just tossed it. > > I will post some photos soon... not just of my current collection of > vintage stuff but some actual vintage photos from the 1960s... > > Andy Welcome to our little corner of cyberspace, and looking forward to the pics. I am going to have to ask though that the Dodge and the Galaxy are off topic, otherwise Sean will start ranting about his Mustang <G>. Seriously, welcome, I hope you'll enjoy it here, it's a very friendly group of some VERY knowledgeable people who just love the stuff we grew up with. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3715	From: donvdh	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Yet again, HiFi drive

Attachments : Curmudgeon, I found a little 4-wheel switcher. Motor runs, no rubber bands, picture available. 2 Lionel ATSF F-series A\B dummies - 1 each - interested? lost your e-mail. donvdh@... Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3716	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro

Ah, but flatmotors are okay! I should post a photo of the V-12 we lit off Friday...... > I am going to have to ask though that the Dodge and the Galaxy are off > topic, otherwise Sean will start ranting about his Mustang <G>. > > Seriously, welcome, I hope you'll enjoy it here, it's a very friendly group > of some VERY knowledgeable people who just love the stuff we grew up with. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3717	From: donvdh	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: What qualifies as vintage HO

As far as Sean's Mustang is concerned, is a 69 Mustang old enough to be considered vintage, or for that matter HO? Probably doesn't matter, last I heard the body shop guy had first dibs on it. {:-) !! Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3718	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

Within 4 houses on our street, a 41, 47, 49, two 50's and a 53. All flatmotors. > As far as Sean's Mustang is concerned, is a 69 Mustang old enough to be considered vintage, or for that matter HO? Probably doesn't matter, last I heard the body shop guy had first dibs on it. {:-) !! Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3719	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

My Mustang is one year older than I.... therefore I do not consider it to be vintage.   Just a classic muscle car is all...   ...that is old enough to no longer require emissions testing. In fact, it never had any.   Sean donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: As far as Sean's Mustang is concerned, is a 69 Mustang old enough to be considered vintage, or for that matter HO? Probably doesn't matter, last I heard the body shop guy had first dibs on it. {:-) !! Don V. Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3720	From: Jack Priller	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > I guess I should have joined this group a long time ago... unlike > many folks in the hobby, I did NOT start out with Lionel or Flyer, but > with the subject of this list: Vintage HO. I started with the "poor man's" toy trains, Marx, Christmas 1953. > One of my sentimental favorites remains the John English Hobbyline > cast metal passenger cars. There was a combine and a coach - often > died of zamac disease, or warped into the shape of a Spanish galion. > Similar cars were done in plastic under the Penn Line and Varney > labels, and are still available (with the addition of a shorty diner, > Pullman, and obs) in the Life-Like toy line. > > I have been admittedly dabbling on ebay the past couple of years and > buying intact versions of stuff I had as a kid now long destroyed... > including the Fleischmann UP "Pullman", and even a dual motor Mantua > "F9" in B&O.... in the original box even. > > It's really a fun diversion from prototype modeling. I've even though > about building a small 4x8 layout with brass fiber tie flex track, to > hook up my Marn-O-Power and run those old ozone-smelling, open- frame > beasties. And keep the brite boy handy. > > Andy > Take a look in 'Photos', Album "Jack's Junque", photo #1. Two cars closest to camera are still as pictured nearly 2 1/2 years after I posted that picture. Note that the combine needs some serious cleaning and is minus couplers, and I'm not sure I'd trust the trucks very far; the coach is body-only. Since it is obvious that I'll never get to them, if you (or anyone else) is interested, they are available cheap. And welcome to the group. Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3721	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro

Jack- Check your inbox. Westpac- Target (I mean, skimmer)? I was always east coast, Med and "up north". Big and black and never come back Fast Attack. Dave > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@> > wrote: > > > > I guess I should have joined this group a long time ago... unlike > > many folks in the hobby, I did NOT start out with Lionel or Flyer, > but > > with the subject of this list: Vintage HO. > > I started with the "poor man's" toy trains, Marx, Christmas 1953. > > > One of my sentimental favorites remains the John English Hobbyline > > cast metal passenger cars. There was a combine and a coach - often > > died of zamac disease, or warped into the shape of a Spanish > galion. > > Similar cars were done in plastic under the Penn Line and Varney > > labels, and are still available (with the addition of a shorty > diner, > > Pullman, and obs) in the Life-Like toy line. > > > > I have been admittedly dabbling on ebay the past couple of years > and > > buying intact versions of stuff I had as a kid now long > destroyed... > > including the Fleischmann UP "Pullman", and even a dual motor > Mantua > > "F9" in B&O.... in the original box even. > > > > It's really a fun diversion from prototype modeling. I've even > though > > about building a small 4x8 layout with brass fiber tie flex track, > to > > hook up my Marn-O-Power and run those old ozone-smelling, open- > frame > > beasties. And keep the brite boy handy. > > > > Andy > > > > Take a look in 'Photos', Album "Jack's Junque", photo #1. Two cars > closest to camera are still as pictured nearly 2 1/2 years after I > posted that picture. Note that the combine needs some serious > cleaning and is minus couplers, and I'm not sure I'd trust the > trucks very far; the coach is body-only. Since it is obvious that > I'll never get to them, if you (or anyone else) is interested, they > are available cheap. > > And welcome to the group. > > Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3722	From: Jack Priller	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Jack- Check your inbox. And check yours. :>)) > Westpac- Target (I mean, skimmer)? > I was always east coast, Med and "up north". > Big and black and never come back Fast Attack. > Dave http://www.virtualwall.org/units/forrestal.htm One of the names on bottom of page was one of my closest friends, Kenny Fasth. Bob Leonberg was my immediate supervisor. Jack Priller USN, escaped

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3723	From: greendoddz	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro

> I am going to have to ask though that the Dodge and the Galaxy are off > topic, otherwise Sean will start ranting about his Mustang <G>. Actually they do appeal to the same time period and memories in my life as the vintage HO stuff I am into. I also have as you know, "a few" reel to reel tape recorders and 16mm movie projectors... Speaking of which, I DO have a very short 8mm film of my old, old train layout operating circa 1970-? I need to convert my films to DVD. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3724	From: greendoddz	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...> wrote: > Take a look in 'Photos', Album "Jack's Junque", photo #1. Two cars > closest to camera are still as pictured nearly 2 1/2 years after I > posted that picture. Note that the combine needs some serious > cleaning and is minus couplers, and I'm not sure I'd trust the > trucks very far; the coach is body-only. Since it is obvious that > I'll never get to them, if you (or anyone else) is interested, they > are available cheap. Do you know the manufacturer? The combine looks the same style as the Hobbyline/English, but I've never seen one with that door arrangement - is it kitbashed? The coach looks like a Walthers -- I built a similar one in the 70s from a kit. I think it's a Frisco prototype. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3725	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a wonderful and now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed vintage HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the rise and fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the USA" early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman style car kits. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > As far as Sean's Mustang is concerned, is a 69 Mustang old enough to be considered vintage, or for that matter HO? Probably doesn't matter, last I heard the body shop guy had first dibs on it. {:-) !! Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3726	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

I was thinking more from the beginning of HO scale (The late 1930s) to the late 1950s. After that, it seems plastic took a very firm hold. Nothing like a good solid train of paper and wood cars headed up by a cast metal steam engine! -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a wonderful and > now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed vintage > HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the rise and > fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the USA" > early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman style car > kits. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: > > > > As far as Sean's Mustang is concerned, is a 69 Mustang old enough to > be considered vintage, or for that matter HO? Probably doesn't matter, > last I heard the body shop guy had first dibs on it. {:-) !! Don V. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3727	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

I must agree, however...   Though few they might have been, there were still some HO pieces avaliable pre-war that must be included in this range.   Sean mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a wonderful and now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed vintage HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the rise and fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the USA" early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman style car kits. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > As far as Sean's Mustang is concerned, is a 69 Mustang old enough to be considered vintage, or for that matter HO? Probably doesn't matter, last I heard the body shop guy had first dibs on it. {:-) !! Don V. > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3728	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: handrails

If I remember correctly (I have traded all my old Athearn hood units to a friend for some other stuff), in the '60s, didn't they use a different stanchion design than they do now? Back then they were blackened metal, and were made differently. Those looked pretty good! Newer ones are bare metal color, and are simpler stampings that look less realistic, and seem to be harder to install, plus are less durable. Depends how much a purist you are. For what it's worth, I had a B&O GP35 by athearn, the roadname was apparently stamped on one side only, no evidence there was a 'B&O' stamped on the other side at all. Are engines like this rare? Or simply a fairly scarce factory 'oops'? -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > They could still be available from Athearn--they still make the loco--might be better than the originals, though--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frank Nagy > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:32 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] handrails > > > > I recently purchased a ' 60's era Athearn GP35 which did not have any walkway railings included. I would appreciate any help I can get in obtaining a set of railings for this engine. > > Thanks...Frank Nagy > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3729	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

What is "vintage" is a good question. I don't think there is an official definition such as exists in some corners of the automotive world. I think "vintage" often gets blurred with the period of someone's "childhood" or "teenhood". Either by wanting to view it from that viewpoint, or hoping it is earlier than that viewpoint. The 1950's wasn't really all that long ago, but in the Lionel world you can read articles about the "6464" style box cars that go into incredible minutia trying to figure out the plastic mold variations, about when some mark on the mold appeared, and a whole bunch of zeal usually reserved for archeaoligists in Egypt. Chuck Kinzer Quoting railwaymodeler <computersystemrebuild@...>: > I was thinking more from the beginning of HO scale (The late 1930s) to > the late 1950s. After that, it seems plastic took a very firm hold. > > Nothing like a good solid train of paper and wood cars headed up by a > cast metal steam engine! > -Steve > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> > wrote: >> >> I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a wonderful and >> now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed vintage >> HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the rise and >> fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the USA" >> early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman style car >> kits. >> >> Matt >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: >> > >> > As far as Sean's Mustang is concerned, is a 69 Mustang old enough to >> be considered vintage, or for that matter HO? Probably doesn't matter, >> last I heard the body shop guy had first dibs on it. {:-) !! Don V. >> > >> > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3730	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: handrails

I've got (at least in the family) two types of design on Athearn stanchions. Early ones were stamped flat on the ends with a hole punched to feed the railing through. Some are blackened, some are not. Later ones are stamped flat on the ends, but at 90° to the older ones, and this part is rolled over the railing. Probably more variations than that. Dave > > If I remember correctly (I have traded all my old Athearn hood units > to a friend for some other stuff), in the '60s, didn't they use a > different stanchion design than they do now? Back then they were > blackened metal, and were made differently. Those looked pretty good! > Newer ones are bare metal color, and are simpler stampings that look > less realistic, and seem to be harder to install, plus are less > durable. Depends how much a purist you are. > > For what it's worth, I had a B&O GP35 by athearn, the roadname was > apparently stamped on one side only, no evidence there was a 'B&O' > stamped on the other side at all. Are engines like this rare? Or > simply a fairly scarce factory 'oops'? > > -Steve > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > They could still be available from Athearn--they still make the > loco--might be better than the originals, though--gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Frank Nagy > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:32 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] handrails > > > > > > > > I recently purchased a ' 60's era Athearn GP35 which did not have > any walkway railings included. I would appreciate any help I can get > in obtaining a set of railings for this engine. > > > > Thanks...Frank Nagy > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your > story. > > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3731	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

If it is older than... one year older than me, it is vintage in my book!   That keeps both me and my mustang out of that Vintage category. Sean ckinzer@... wrote: What is "vintage" is a good question. I don't think there is an official definition such as exists in some corners of the automotive world. I think "vintage" often gets blurred with the period of someone's "childhood" or "teenhood". Either by wanting to view it from that viewpoint, or hoping it is earlier than that viewpoint. The 1950's wasn't really all that long ago, but in the Lionel world you can read articles about the "6464" style box cars that go into incredible minutia trying to figure out the plastic mold variations, about when some mark on the mold appeared, and a whole bunch of zeal usually reserved for archeaoligists in Egypt. Chuck Kinzer Quoting railwaymodeler <computersystemrebui ld@yahoo. com>: > I was thinking more from the beginning of HO scale (The late 1930s) to > the late 1950s. After that, it seems plastic took a very firm hold. > > Nothing like a good solid train of paper and wood cars headed up by a > cast metal steam engine! > -Steve > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@ ...> > wrote: >> >> I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a wonderful and >> now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed vintage >> HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the rise and >> fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the USA" >> early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman style car >> kits. >> >> Matt >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: >> > >> > As far as Sean's Mustang is concerned, is a 69 Mustang old enough to >> be considered vintage, or for that matter HO? Probably doesn't matter, >> last I heard the body shop guy had first dibs on it. {:-) !! Don V. >> > >> > > > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3732	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

Ah but Sean, I have news for you........ Like alot of us, you 2 are "Vintage".........:-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ Play games, earn tickets, get cool prizes. Play now�it's FREE! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink1

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3733	From: sean naylor	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

Does that mean I am collectable?   Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Ah but Sean, I have news for you........ Like alot of us, you 2 are "Vintage".........:-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ Play games, earn tickets, get cool prizes. Play now?it's FREE! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink1 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3734	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

Aren't we all??? :-) _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i�m Initiative now. It�s free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_June07

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3735	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:43 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What qualifies as vintage HO >I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a wonderful and > now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed vintage > HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the rise and > fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the USA" > early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman style car > kits. > > Matt Actually when I conceived the group I was thinking pretty much the same thing, early 60's and before. A lot of the models designed then ARE still available even today, but they are disappearing fast. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3736	From: Glenn476	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

For my collection I tend to use cutoff points for many manufacturers--usually the point at which their lines made the transition to the "modern era".  Often this is the first plastic model--such as the 30 ft flatcar by MDC.  With Mantua--the change from the "Mighty Mite" to the "Shifter" is the point with locos--the MM had the die cast cab still around (although in plastic) today. Their die cast flat car is the change point in cars--likewise the bobber caboose--incidentally there is  a metal bobber on eBay--look up as "seller" "sfnative" ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: What qualifies as vintage HO ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@ netscape. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:43 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What qualifies as vintage HO >I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a wonderful and > now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed vintage > HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the rise and > fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the USA" > early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman style car > kits. > > Matt Actually when I conceived the group I was thinking pretty much the same thing, early 60's and before. A lot of the models designed then ARE still available even today, but they are disappearing fast. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3737	From: curmudgeon	Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

And, yet, same manufacturer, different products, have different "cutoffs". Varney F-3's, die-cast changed to plastic quite early. But, the Old Lady 2-8-0 stayed the same up until at least 1966 (Japanese KTM motor, but all else about the same and interchangeable). I always considered mantua Mikes and Pacifics to have shifted when Version 2's went away, and they lasted until about 1961. I figure in freight cars if it's metal (cast, aluminum or brass) or wood, or cardboard, or even Tenite, it's early, and that includes new wood craftsman kits, as they are "old school". Dave > For my collection I tend to use cutoff points for many manufacturers--usually the point at which their lines made the transition to the "modern era". Often this is the first plastic model--such as the 30 ft flatcar by MDC. With Mantua--the change from the "Mighty Mite" to the "Shifter" is the point with locos--the MM had the die cast cab still around (although in plastic) today. Their die cast flat car is the change point in cars--likewise the bobber caboose--incidentally there is a metal bobber on eBay--look up as "seller" "sfnative" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Don Dellmann > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:59 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: What qualifies as vintage HO > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:43 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What qualifies as vintage HO > > >I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a wonderful and > > now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed vintage > > HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the rise and > > fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the USA" > > early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman style car > > kits. > > > > Matt > > Actually when I conceived the group I was thinking pretty much the same > thing, early 60's and before. A lot of the models designed then ARE still > available even today, but they are disappearing fast. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3738	From: Larry	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

I usually consider Vintage HO as trains made between the 1930's when HO started to 1969. Like everyone else I consider the wood and metal train kits as vintage. Athearn for example when they changed from spring trucks to plastic is the cut of point for them. Penn line and Varney when they went out of business. Tyco, Bachmann, Mantua and the most of the rest of the manufacturers, I use the late 1960's. Although with companies like Ulrich I extend that date into the 1970's. To me it seems in the late 1960's is when the manufacturers started making trains that would not last very long and what seems to be a profit motive sets in. Quanity over Quality. Just my 2 cents. Larry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > And, yet, same manufacturer, different products, have > different "cutoffs". > Varney F-3's, die-cast changed to plastic quite early. > But, the Old Lady 2-8-0 stayed the same up until at least 1966 > (Japanese KTM motor, but all else about the same and > interchangeable). > I always considered Mantua Mikes and Pacifics to have shifted when > Version 2's went away, and they lasted until about 1961. > I figure in freight cars if it's metal (cast, aluminum or brass) or > wood, or cardboard, or even Tenite, it's early, and that includes > new wood craftsman kits, as they are "old school". > > Dave > > > > > For my collection I tend to use cutoff points for many > manufacturers--usually the point at which their lines made the > transition to the "modern era". Often this is the first plastic > model--such as the 30 ft flatcar by MDC. With Mantua--the change > from the "Mighty Mite" to the "Shifter" is the point with locos-- the > MM had the die cast cab still around (although in plastic) today. > Their die cast flat car is the change point in cars--likewise the > bobber caboose--incidentally there is a metal bobber on eBay--look > up as "seller" "sfnative" > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Don Dellmann > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: What qualifies as vintage HO > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:43 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What qualifies as vintage HO > > > > >I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a > wonderful and > > > now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed > vintage > > > HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the > rise and > > > fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the > USA" > > > early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman > style car > > > kits. > > > > > > Matt > > > > Actually when I conceived the group I was thinking pretty much > the same > > thing, early 60's and before. A lot of the models designed then > ARE still > > available even today, but they are disappearing fast. > > > > Don > > > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > > Owner-Moderator > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > Co-owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3739	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

Sean, Upon reading your comments I agree. I think my post-war concept of HO is too narrow. For one thing, it leaves out early Varney. Good point to make in this. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I must agree, however... > > Though few they might have been, there were still some HO pieces avaliable pre-war that must be included in this range. > > Sean > > mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a wonderful and > now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed vintage > HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the rise and > fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the USA" > early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman style car > kits. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: > > > > As far as Sean's Mustang is concerned, is a 69 Mustang old enough to > be considered vintage, or for that matter HO? Probably doesn't matter, > last I heard the body shop guy had first dibs on it. {:-) !! Don V. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3740	From: donvdh	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

To all and any one. I am trying to find what may be a figment of my imagination. Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? Can anyone lend any assistance, especially to the first question. The second stems from having seen what seemed to be such an item on eBay which sold for more than I could afford at the time. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3741	From: greendoddz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

I consider everything that has been mentioned so far - certainly anything from the diecast, wood, and tinplate era, to be vintage. Vintage plastic is arguably a different category, but more difficult to define. I'd consider an Athearn 40' box car in a yellow box, or orange and cream RTR box, with sprung trucks, screw-on horn hooks, and in one of the 1950s schemes to be vintage all the way. Yet you can still buy the exact same car today - although not in the same paint job, or with the sprung trucks. What makes it vintage to me is it's year of origin especially if it's backed up with original packaging. I have a few older Athearn items. At one time the streamline passenger cars were multi-piece bodies. They were retooled completely in the early 1960s and those same cars are currently available in the RTR line and possibly still as bluebox kits. But the flat kits are interesting even if they are essentially the same thing. Oddly the heavyweight Athearn cars seem to have always been one piece bodies. The only real change between 50 years ago and today are the trucks/couplers and probably better window glass on the current RTR. Another thing I consider vintage is red box Tyco. Certainly not the same as the metal/wood stuff but most of it is long OOP and it has a certain charm. It *was* extremely durable, up until the buyout and subsequent move to Hong Kong which turned what was at least a decent toy train line into throwaways. I do have a small collection - maybe 16 pieces - of red box Tyco rolling stock, with boxes. Brown boxes - the early ones - contained the same product but it quickly changed to the retooled junk. The true death of Tyco occurred with the introduction of the Vampire power truck - a 3-axle, pancake-motor thingy which could have it's center wheels blanked and it could act as an ersatz 6-wheel truck with the vampire sideframes, or as a foul-looking 4-wheel "Stretchberg" or "AAAAAAR B" with the center wheels blanked. Yet, there are people (younger than me of course) who have a fondness for their 1970s vampire Tycos. Remember the Menzies remakes of the Athearn metal cars in the 1970s? I actually built a few of those. Very welcome diversion from shake the box... other than packaging, they pretty much were remakes of the originals right down to the graphics. My earliest memories are probably from 1960; by the end of that year when I turned 3, I had my own freight train... Athearn's then-RTR freight cars and a yellow Hustler... and my own passenger train consisting of a Mantua dual motor B&O F unit, matching dummy, Fleischmann UP "Pullman", Gilbert NP coach, and an Athearn HW B&O observation. Dad's stuff was a mix of Walthers and Hobbyline passenger cars, MDC metal, Athearn metal, and Ulrich freight cars, and four steam engines: Mantua Pacific, Mantua Shifter, a Kemtron/International kit-built Niagara with a DC-71 motor and a Kemtron (UP!!) tender, and a version 1.0 MDC Atlantic, a legendary mechanical nightmare. I still have much of it. Then there's the Athearn steam: the USRA 0-6-0, B&M 4-6-2, and that wacky 0-4-2T... have never seen one in person only photos. I have the other two. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3742	From: jay matz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

Hello Mantua didn't make a Berkshire untill 1980 and I think it was model power. Anything before that you made yourself, My Dad made one using a Penn Line or Varney 4 wheel trailing truck. Jay donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: T The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3743	From: greendoddz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: > Mantua didn't make a Berkshire untill 1980 and I think it was model power. > Anything before that you made yourself, My Dad made one using a Penn Line or > Varney 4 wheel trailing truck. That sounds right. I think I remember seeing that auction, and IIRC it was a Varney Berkshire that was mis-labeled as a Mantua. Lots of confusion when someone lists old stuff that comes from an estate, or that they just aren't familiar with. Especially when it has been altered in some way, as so many locos were. A Mantua "Berkshire" could, as you say, have been easily cobbled from the Mike that way. Didn't Bowser at some point re-issue the Varney Berk? Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3744	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

I found a completed ebay listing for a Mantua 2-8-4...     140121476363           @     $80.99   Sean   greendoddz <greendoddz@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: > Mantua didn't make a Berkshire untill 1980 and I think it was model power. > Anything before that you made yourself, My Dad made one using a Penn Line or > Varney 4 wheel trailing truck. That sounds right. I think I remember seeing that auction, and IIRC it was a Varney Berkshire that was mis-labeled as a Mantua. Lots of confusion when someone lists old stuff that comes from an estate, or that they just aren't familiar with. Especially when it has been altered in some way, as so many locos were. A Mantua "Berkshire" could, as you say, have been easily cobbled from the Mike that way. Didn't Bowser at some point re-issue the Varney Berk? Andy Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3745	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO - tyco oddities

> >I do have a small collection - maybe 16 pieces - of red box Tyco >rolling stock, with boxes. Brown boxes - the early ones - contained >the same product but it quickly changed to the retooled junk. The >true death of Tyco occurred with the introduction of the Vampire power >truck - a 3-axle, pancake-motor thingy which could have it's center >wheels blanked and it could act as an ersatz 6-wheel truck with the >vampire sideframes, or as a foul-looking 4-wheel "Stretchberg" or >"AAAAAAR B" with the center wheels blanked. Yet, there are people >(younger than me of course) who have a fondness for their 1970s >vampire Tycos. > > Think the worst of these applications was the GG1 with Alco style C-C trucks, with runner up the dummy Chattanooga 0-8-0 with 2-4-2 motorized tender. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3746	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

as the subject of vintage/ prewar H0 was discussed - anybody out there with info about Frank Schlegel and his bronce cast Trolley models? Have two models, some pictures in old magazines but little background on them. They were generic Interurbans, with some IT overtones. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3747	From: greendoddz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I found a completed ebay listing for a Mantua 2-8-4... > > 140121476363 @ $80.99 That's a post-1980 model, essentially the mike with a 4-wheel truck. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3748	From: greendoddz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO - tyco oddities

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> wrote: > > > Think the worst of these applications was the GG1 with Alco style C-C > trucks, with runner up the dummy Chattanooga 0-8-0 with 2-4-2 > motorized tender. They used the Vampire truck in their entire product line I think. I was amused when I saw that they had used it on the GG1, SD24, C630, and E7... and even more when I saw it on the GP20, C430, and F unit. But I about fell on the floor when I saw the "Nooga" tender drive... LOL. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3749	From: jay matz	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

Andy That Ebay listing is a 1980 Model Power that was made for Mantua. Jay greendoddz <greendoddz@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > I found a completed ebay listing for a Mantua 2-8-4... > > 140121476363 @ $80.99 That's a post-1980 model, essentially the mike with a 4-wheel truck. Andy Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3750	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

I count all back into the thirties at least.  I have a fairly complete collection of MR--missing a total of 15 issues all in the thirties. So I can reference the ads.  That's what I based my PCR clinics on--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: mmattjcoleman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What qualifies as vintage HO Sean, Upon reading your comments I agree. I think my post-war concept of HO is too narrow. For one thing, it leaves out early Varney. Good point to make in this. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > I must agree, however... > > Though few they might have been, there were still some HO pieces avaliable pre-war that must be included in this range. > > Sean > > mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@ ...> wrote: > I realize the comments have as much to do with cars of a wonderful and > now distant era, but the question is deeper. I always presumed vintage > HO to be from 1946 through 1964 -- the approximate era of the rise and > fall of the die-cast locomotive, the peak of the "made in the USA" > early diesels, and it ends with the passing of the craftsman style car > kits. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: > > > > As far as Sean's Mustang is concerned, is a 69 Mustang old enough to > be considered vintage, or for that matter HO? Probably doesn't matter, > last I heard the body shop guy had first dibs on it. {:-) !! Don V. > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3751	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

I think they had several bigger steam locos in the later years--70's, etc.  ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? To all and any one. I am trying to find what may be a figment of my imagination. Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? Can anyone lend any assistance, especially to the first question. The second stems from having seen what seemed to be such an item on eBay which sold for more than I could afford at the time. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3752	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

The Mantua Berks I have seen  were Mikes  with a four wheel trailing truck.   Roger Aultman         ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? I think they had several bigger steam locos in the later years--70's, etc.  ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? To all and any one. I am trying to find what may be a figment of my imagination. Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? Can anyone lend any assistance, especially to the first question. The second stems from having seen what seemed to be such an item on eBay which sold for more than I could afford at the time. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3753	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I

In the 1999 Walthers catalog there are a light and heavy Pacific, heavy Mikado with two different boilers and a Hudson, with the 4 wheeled trailing trucks one would need.  From the pictures, the heavy Pacific and Mikado have the same boiler, the Hudson has the same boiler as the other Mikado.  Older catalogs may provide better photos but one could make one with Mantua parts.   Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn476 Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 7:14 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?   I think they had several bigger steam locos in the later years--70's, etc.  ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?   To all and any one. I am trying to find what may be a figment of my imagination. Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? Can anyone lend any assistance, especially to the first question. The second stems from having seen what seemed to be such an item on eBay which sold for more than I could afford at the time. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3754	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see the

HOLY COW! Check out the Ebay listing: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 OB Liner EX + Item number: 320117710066 It sold for $2,555.67 For a single HO scale plastic American Flyer Tank car, with the box. It must be some sort of record..? Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3755	From: cnj999	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > HOLY COW! > > Check out the Ebay listing: > > HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 OB Liner EX + Item number: > 320117710066 > > It sold for $2,555.67 > > For a single HO scale plastic American Flyer Tank car, with the box. > > It must be some sort of record..? > I can only offer that it is yet another example of the moneyed stupidity that we are seeing pervade the hobby more and more nowadays. About a week ago on eBay an auction house offered a cardboard shipping box for a Lionel O-guage 1963 GG-1 set - no trains whatever within, mind you, just an empty cardboard box - that sold for $5,100! The only idetifying mark the box carried was a paste-on Lionel shipping label. And in addition, the winner had to pay a $40 shipping charge (if damaged in shipment, I'd love to see someone try to make a claim of a $5,100 loss on an empty cardboard box to UPS). As a collector of early HO I can understand that there may be some sort of personal value to a particular model, perhaps even to having the original display box it came in. But the plain cardboard shipping carton? Maybe it's time to put up my half eaten ham sandwich that mystically appears to have the image of George Bush on it! CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3756	From: Riverboy	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

Hello,   I am a long time seller on eBay of ( mostly HO ) model trains ( all vintages ) and other items , and I've seen things sell for wat higher than I imgined. I always have relatively low opening bids and almost never a reserve . A good example is about a year ago, I listed an Aurora Model Motoring HO dark blue Mustang with a white stripe on it . Very good condition , but no box . Opening bid of $7.99I was figuring I'd be lucky to get $35 to $40 . It sold for well over $400   .   It just goes  to show that bidders are willing to pay for something they really want . Can't always blame sellers. They only set the opening bids .   Riverboy   cnj999 <jbortle@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > HOLY COW! > > Check out the Ebay listing: > > HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 OB Liner EX + Item number: > 320117710066 > > It sold for $2,555.67 > > For a single HO scale plastic American Flyer Tank car, with the box. > > It must be some sort of record..? > I can only offer that it is yet another example of the moneyed stupidity that we are seeing pervade the hobby more and more nowadays. About a week ago on eBay an auction house offered a cardboard shipping box for a Lionel O-guage 1963 GG-1 set - no trains whatever within, mind you, just an empty cardboard box - that sold for $5,100! The only idetifying mark the box carried was a paste-on Lionel shipping label. And in addition, the winner had to pay a $40 shipping charge (if damaged in shipment, I'd love to see someone try to make a claim of a $5,100 loss on an empty cardboard box to UPS). As a collector of early HO I can understand that there may be some sort of personal value to a particular model, perhaps even to having the original display box it came in. But the plain cardboard shipping carton? Maybe it's time to put up my half eaten ham sandwich that mystically appears to have the image of George Bush on it! CNJ999   It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3757	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

Hello Riverboy, I do not think blame belongs to the sellers in cases like these. I clearly falls in the hands of the buyers. I sell too. If you want to go that route, I must say, the blame falls on the sellers, when they offer some beart-up piece of junk, say just an ordinary Japan or China mass produced box car from the 80's. Missing the trucks and all the steps, yet the still call it a "RARE" vintage antique..or something like that. They then start the bid off at $10 or more. RARE is the kicker for me... What makes so many item listings I see "RARE? Is is because it is the first time they have seen it? I especially love seeing it describing the listing of the Varney diecast F3. I bet any collector of vintage HO has one. I see them all the time. I have seen some sellers use it with each of their listings...   For me, the rare items are many of the Early Mantuas, the lidsay stubby switcher, the Penn Line Crusader, the early Varney pacifics with the spung drivers, etc (Only because of the number of times they come to market, not based on the number produced, however some were clearly produced less that others)   Sean Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: Hello,   I am a long time seller on eBay of ( mostly HO ) model trains ( all vintages ) and other items , and I've seen things sell for wat higher than I imgined. I always have relatively low opening bids and almost never a reserve . A good example is about a year ago, I listed an Aurora Model Motoring HO dark blue Mustang with a white stripe on it . Very good condition , but no box . Opening bid of $7.99I was figuring I'd be lucky to get $35 to $40 . It sold for well over $400   .   It just goes  to show that bidders are willing to pay for something they really want . Can't always blame sellers. They only set the opening bids .   Riverboy   cnj999 <jbortle@aol. com> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > HOLY COW! > > Check out the Ebay listing: > > HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 OB Liner EX + Item number: > 320117710066 > > It sold for $2,555.67 > > For a single HO scale plastic American Flyer Tank car, with the box. > > It must be some sort of record..? > I can only offer that it is yet another example of the moneyed stupidity that we are seeing pervade the hobby more and more nowadays. About a week ago on eBay an auction house offered a cardboard shipping box for a Lionel O-guage 1963 GG-1 set - no trains whatever within, mind you, just an empty cardboard box - that sold for $5,100! The only idetifying mark the box carried was a paste-on Lionel shipping label. And in addition, the winner had to pay a $40 shipping charge (if damaged in shipment, I'd love to see someone try to make a claim of a $5,100 loss on an empty cardboard box to UPS). As a collector of early HO I can understand that there may be some sort of personal value to a particular model, perhaps even to having the original display box it came in. But the plain cardboard shipping carton? Maybe it's time to put up my half eaten ham sandwich that mystically appears to have the image of George Bush on it! CNJ999 It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3758	From: cnj999	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > For me, the rare items are many of the Early Mantuas, the lidsay stubby switcher, the Penn Line Crusader, the early Varney pacifics with the spung drivers, etc (Only because of the number of times they come to market, not based on the number produced, however some were clearly produced less that others) > > Sean Indeed, items like the Penn Line Crusader truly are "rare" in every sense of the word. This was a unique early model to this day unavailable, in fact, except in brass and as I recall, only around 50 kits were ever produced, with just a handful of examples being factory assembled. This might well justify the eBay selling price of over $1,500 I saw for an excellent recent example (the brass ones don't command more!). But the matter of a $5,000+ empty cardboard box I consider quite something else again! CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3759	From: Riverboy	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

Hi Sean,   I'm in total agreeance with you on that. Sellers that always use " RARE " or "VINTAGE" , and its something you can find without looking and its in rough shape, but they want a ridiculous starting bid. Things like that, I put in a lot callled " JUNK BOX " or something to that effect.   But in ANY case $5100 for an empty shipping box is totally unjustifiable. At least the $2000 tank car had its original box!   Thanks.   Tod ( Riverboy )  ohioboys2000 eBay ID sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hello Riverboy, I do not think blame belongs to the sellers in cases like these. I clearly falls in the hands of the buyers. I sell too. If you want to go that route, I must say, the blame falls on the sellers, when they offer some beart-up piece of junk, say just an ordinary Japan or China mass produced box car from the 80's. Missing the trucks and all the steps, yet the still call it a "RARE" vintage antique..or something like that. They then start the bid off at $10 or more. RARE is the kicker for me... What makes so many item listings I see "RARE? Is is because it is the first time they have seen it? I especially love seeing it describing the listing of the Varney diecast F3. I bet any collector of vintage HO has one. I see them all the time. I have seen some sellers use it with each of their listings...   For me, the rare items are many of the Early Mantuas, the lidsay stubby switcher, the Penn Line Crusader, the early Varney pacifics with the spung drivers, etc (Only because of the number of times they come to market, not based on the number produced, however some were clearly produced less that others)   Sean .   Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3760	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

That is some expensive garbage...   I wonder how much I could have gotten for the 4 8' long cardboard boxes my kids jungle gym came in...?   Honestly... If I ever spend more than $1000 for any car or engine that is not Brass... Please shoot me... Sean Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: Hi Sean,   I'm in total agreeance with you on that. Sellers that always use " RARE " or "VINTAGE" , and its something you can find without looking and its in rough shape, but they want a ridiculous starting bid. Things like that, I put in a lot callled " JUNK BOX " or something to that effect.   But in ANY case $5100 for an empty shipping box is totally unjustifiable. At least the $2000 tank car had its original box!   Thanks.   Tod ( Riverboy )  ohioboys2000 eBay ID sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hello Riverboy, I do not think blame belongs to the sellers in cases like these. I clearly falls in the hands of the buyers. I sell too. If you want to go that route, I must say, the blame falls on the sellers, when they offer some beart-up piece of junk, say just an ordinary Japan or China mass produced box car from the 80's. Missing the trucks and all the steps, yet the still call it a "RARE" vintage antique..or something like that. They then start the bid off at $10 or more. RARE is the kicker for me... What makes so many item listings I see "RARE? Is is because it is the first time they have seen it? I especially love seeing it describing the listing of the Varney diecast F3. I bet any collector of vintage HO has one. I see them all the time. I have seen some sellers use it with each of their listings...   For me, the rare items are many of the Early Mantuas, the lidsay stubby switcher, the Penn Line Crusader, the early Varney pacifics with the spung drivers, etc (Only because of the number of times they come to market, not based on the number produced, however some were clearly produced less that others)   Sean . Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3761	From: John Hagen	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

Sean, I'll need to know where you live to carry out your request. LOL. $5100.00 for a box. Hey, it's a lionel. Lionel collectors can and do go way overboard sometimes. Over two and a half grand for an HO tank car that's not even in it's original condition? Yes, the members of this group would appreciate the Kadee couplers. And the trucks, which I don't think are original either (I could be wrong here). But I also don't think anyone on this group would pay that kind of money for it. So if it's a AF collector, wouldn't he/she want it all original? The seller didn't mis-representive anything as far as I can see. BTW, there is a lesson here for those that sell on ebay as I do occasionally. Good photos are critical to getting good results on ebay. If that auction would of had just one distant and/or fuzzy photo, as I see a lot of them do, bet it would have gone for maybe 10% of that amount. $2500 + for an HO plastic tank car, amazing. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > That is some expensive garbage... > > I wonder how much I could have gotten for the 4 8' long cardboard boxes my kids jungle gym came in...? > > Honestly... If I ever spend more than $1000 for any car or engine that is not Brass... Please shoot me... > Sean > > Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: > Hi Sean, > > I'm in total agreeance with you on that. Sellers that always use " RARE " or "VINTAGE" , and its something you can find without looking and its in rough shape, but they want a ridiculous starting bid. Things like that, I put in a lot callled " JUNK BOX " or something to that effect. > > But in ANY case $5100 for an empty shipping box is totally unjustifiable. At least the $2000 tank car had its original box! > > Thanks. > > Tod ( Riverboy ) ohioboys2000 eBay ID > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > Hello Riverboy, > I do not think blame belongs to the sellers in cases like these. I clearly falls in the hands of the buyers. I sell too. If you want to go that route, I must say, the blame falls on the sellers, when they offer some beart-up piece of junk, say just an ordinary Japan or China mass produced box car from the 80's. Missing the trucks and all the steps, yet the still call it a "RARE" vintage antique..or something like that. They then start the bid off at $10 or more. > RARE is the kicker for me... What makes so many item listings I see "RARE? Is is because it is the first time they have seen it? I especially love seeing it describing the listing of the Varney diecast F3. I bet any collector of vintage HO has one. I see them all the time. I have seen some sellers use it with each of their listings... > > For me, the rare items are many of the Early Mantuas, the lidsay stubby switcher, the Penn Line Crusader, the early Varney pacifics with the spung drivers, etc (Only because of the number of times they come to market, not based on the number produced, however some were clearly produced less that others) > > Sean > > > . > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > > > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3762	From: epoxy_tech	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Crown HO

Hello All: This has got to be the right place for this question. I was going through a large lot of older HO and found a Pennsy 40' box car marked Crown Hong Kong, the only one I've seen. This car appears to be a tad higher in quality than a blue box Athearn. It looks very similar in most respects. The print quality was as good as Athearn from ten years ago. The doors didn't have the Athearn claws that spoils the appearence of modern blue box Athearn cars. The door tracks were not oversize well, maybe a little, they were painted to match the body. The stirrups seemed to be a little finer than Athearn. So, my question is: Any idea as to the age of this car and is Crown still in business? I tried Googling and came up empty. I wouldn't hesitate to buy more if they are still around. Regards, Al Campbell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3763	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

Being the conspiracy theorist I have become, I would wonder if that sale ever actually went through. I would wonder if "shills" were at work. Would be interesting to see if bidder #2 or #3 gets an e-mail offering it to them as the high bidder backed out...... > Sean, I'll need to know where you live to carry out your request. LOL. > > $5100.00 for a box. Hey, it's a lionel. Lionel collectors can and do > go way overboard sometimes. Over two and a half grand for an HO tank > car that's not even in it's original condition? Yes, the members of > this group would appreciate the Kadee couplers. And the trucks, which > I don't think are original either (I could be wrong here). But I also > don't think anyone on this group would pay that kind of money for it. > So if it's a AF collector, wouldn't he/she want it all original? > > The seller didn't mis-representive anything as far as I can see. > > BTW, there is a lesson here for those that sell on ebay as I do > occasionally. Good photos are critical to getting good results on > ebay. If that auction would of had just one distant and/or fuzzy > photo, as I see a lot of them do, bet it would have gone for maybe > 10% of that amount. > > $2500 + for an HO plastic tank car, amazing. > > John Hagen > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> > wrote: > > > > That is some expensive garbage... > > > > I wonder how much I could have gotten for the 4 8' long cardboard > boxes my kids jungle gym came in...? > > > > Honestly... If I ever spend more than $1000 for any car or engine > that is not Brass... Please shoot me... > > Sean > > > > Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@> wrote: > > Hi Sean, > > > > I'm in total agreeance with you on that. Sellers that always > use " RARE " or "VINTAGE" , and its something you can find without > looking and its in rough shape, but they want a ridiculous starting > bid. Things like that, I put in a lot callled " JUNK BOX " or > something to that effect. > > > > But in ANY case $5100 for an empty shipping box is totally > unjustifiable. At least the $2000 tank car had its original box! > > > > Thanks. > > > > Tod ( Riverboy ) ohioboys2000 eBay ID > > > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > Hello Riverboy, > > I do not think blame belongs to the sellers in cases like these. > I clearly falls in the hands of the buyers. I sell too. If you want > to go that route, I must say, the blame falls on the sellers, when > they offer some beart-up piece of junk, say just an ordinary Japan or > China mass produced box car from the 80's. Missing the trucks and all > the steps, yet the still call it a "RARE" vintage antique..or > something like that. They then start the bid off at $10 or more. > > RARE is the kicker for me... What makes so many item listings I > see "RARE? Is is because it is the first time they have seen it? I > especially love seeing it describing the listing of the Varney > diecast F3. I bet any collector of vintage HO has one. I see them all > the time. I have seen some sellers use it with each of their > listings... > > > > For me, the rare items are many of the Early Mantuas, the lidsay > stubby switcher, the Penn Line Crusader, the early Varney pacifics > with the spung drivers, etc (Only because of the number of times they > come to market, not based on the number produced, however some were > clearly produced less that others) > > > > Sean > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel > today! > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your > story. > > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3764	From: Garry Spear	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

FWIW the production run of Penn Line RDG Crusaders was 500 to 700.  Not 50. People collect trains, like cars, stamps, coins, toys, etc.  If the $2000 spent on a tank car was spent on an old car (automobile), nobody would question it.  How about a Globe (ho Gauge) metal wine car.  A friend owns one and I have examined it and believe it to be original. Men and boys all have toys.  Only the price is different. Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3765	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

While that is true, and having much experience in the old car hobby and Lionel, something that is not original (couplers, possibly trucks, not mint) for that much is odd. One could reletter some other plastic tank car, and even if you had to have custom decals made and have someone else do it for you, less than a hundred bucks. The initial bids of $33 were about right. > > FWIW the production run of Penn Line RDG Crusaders was 500 to 700. Not 50. > > People collect trains, like cars, stamps, coins, toys, etc. If the $2000 > spent on a tank car was spent on an old car (automobile), nobody would > question it. How about a Globe (ho Gauge) metal wine car. A friend owns > one and I have examined it and believe it to be original. > > Men and boys all have toys. Only the price is different. > > Garry Spear >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3766	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Crown HO

----- Original Message ----- From: "epoxy_tech" <madchemep2@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Crown HO > Hello All: This has got to be the right place for this question. I was > going through a large lot of older HO and found a Pennsy 40' box car > marked Crown Hong Kong, the only one I've seen. This car appears to be > a tad higher in quality > than a blue box Athearn. It looks very similar in most respects. The > print quality was as good as Athearn from ten years ago. The doors > didn't have the Athearn claws that spoils the appearence of modern blue > box > Athearn cars. The door tracks were not oversize well, maybe a little, > they were painted to match the body. The stirrups seemed to be a little > finer than Athearn. So, my question is: Any idea as to the age of this > car and is Crown still in business? I tried Googling and came up empty. > I wouldn't hesitate to buy more if they are still around. > Regards, Al Campbell I don't recall the exact dates, but it was sometime in the mid 1960's as I recall. The "Crown" cars were clones of Athearn units, but sold in the USA by Mantua. I'll have to see if I can find an ad to pin the timeframe down a bit. I know they didn't last too long under the Mantua name, though I suspect the dies continued to be used to make cars sold under the Bachmann, Model Power and AT&T lables. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3767	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

>----- Original Message ----- >From: sean naylor >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:26 AM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did >anyone else see the listing? >Hello Riverboy, >I do not think blame belongs to the sellers in cases like these. I clearly >falls in the hands of the buyers. I sell too. If you want to go that route, >I must say, the blame >falls on the sellers, when they offer some beart-up >piece of junk, say just an ordinary Japan or China mass produced box car >from the 80's. Missing the trucks and >all the steps, yet the still call it >a "RARE" vintage antique..or something like that. They then start the bid >off at $10 or more. >RARE is the kicker for me... What makes so many item listings I see "RARE? >Is is because it is the first time they have seen it? I especially love >seeing it >describing the listing of the Varney diecast F3. I bet any >collector of vintage HO has one. I see them all the time. I have seen some >sellers use it with each of their >listings... >For me, the rare items are many of the Early Mantuas, the lidsay stubby >switcher, the Penn Line Crusader, the early Varney pacifics with the spung >drivers, etc >>(Only because of the number of times they come to market, >not based on the number produced, however some were clearly produced less >that others) >Sean As long as there are people out there with more money than brains you're going to see things like this happen. As far as the rarity of the die cast F-3, I don't have one :-( (Although I did have two some years back, and it's my own fault I haven't bought another one.) Now, you want something RARE, how about the Varney Bay Window caboose? I only have seven of them! <G> My MTS brass electroliner is rare. Fifty were made. However, because it's so esoteric a model of such limited appeal, if I were to sell it I'd probably be lucky to get back the huindred bucks I paid for it 10 years ago. Anything is worth what you can get somebody to pay for it. This is where "collector" guides do a disservice to the hobby. If a model uis listed in the "book" at $500.00 but you can't get anyone to give you more than $ 3.75 for it, it's worth $ 3.75. If some idiot is willing to give you $100.00 for a Botchman diesel, well then that particular diesel is worth $ 100.00 (although the postage alone is more than what the thing REALLY should sell for). Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3768	From: Richard Moessner	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

In April, 1988, I bought from Mantua (by mail from their Woodbury Heights, NJ address) a set of their replacement parts lists. These turned out to be the assembly instructions for each locomotive and car kit. Included in this set is one for a Berkshire 2-8-4. It is 4 pages long. At the end of the last page, in the fine print, it says 1/80 and 55-0033. There is a small and fuzzy photo of a locomotive at the top of the first page. Otherwise, there are only line drawings of assembly stages. I assume this sheet was written or revised in January of 1980. Looking at part numbers, most of the Berkshire is the same pieces as the Mikado. The differences I see are: The frame has a different part number, the boiler has a different number, and the trailing truck parts are different. The valve mechanism parts are a different style, too. The tender is the same as with the Mike. This does not prove the kits were ever actually released, but at least Mantua got as far as making specific instruction sheets for them in the 1980s. Dick Moessner --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > To all and any one. I am trying to find what may be a figment of my imagination. Do Mantua Berkshires exist?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3769	From: David Young	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: brass models by International - V&T?

Is anyone here familiar with the brass models imported by International in the 1950's? I'm looking for evidence to confirm the existence of a International V&T Genoa 4-4-0 listed in the Brown Book. There is a copy of the 1956 International catalog at www.hoseeker.net/ which shows an old time 4-4-0 on page 4, but nowhere does it suggest the model was based on a V&T locomotive. The Brown Book indicates the model in question was imported in 1952. Did International ever advertise their 4-4-0 as the Genoa, or is this a case of mistaken identity?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3770	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS

Attachments : A picture of two 60's era American Train and Track container flats just north of Hilbert Junction on my home layout. Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3771	From: Don RIley	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Virginian Rectifyer

I resently got a VGN rectifyer! It runs like a dream. It is rolling on a Glob motor. Frame looks to be the same kinda used for GP7s. The Athearn guide claims it to be made in 58. Those neat engines were not built very long! Anyone else have one with a Globe drive? There are pictures in the photos section of it. http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/browse/c005 Don Riley

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3772	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I

Back when someone first had an article in MR on making a Berk from a Mantua Mike a reader pointed out the need to stretch the firebox to make it look right--as a rule of thumb the rear axle of whatever trailing truck should be approximately below the rear of the firebox.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 6:52 PM Subject: RE: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? In the 1999 Walthers catalog there are a light and heavy Pacific, heavy Mikado with two different boilers and a Hudson, with the 4 wheeled trailing trucks one would need.  From the pictures, the heavy Pacific and Mikado have the same boiler, the Hudson has the same boiler as the other Mikado.  Older catalogs may provide better photos but one could make one with Mantua parts. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn476 Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 7:14 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? I think they had several bigger steam locos in the later years--70's, etc.  ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? To all and any one. I am trying to find what may be a figment of my imagination. Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? Can anyone lend any assistance, especially to the first question. The second stems from having seen what seemed to be such an item on eBay which sold for more than I could afford at the time. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3773	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

wish I'd squirreled away a dozen of them--  8<) ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see the listing? HOLY COW! Check out the Ebay listing: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 OB Liner EX + Item number: 320117710066 It sold for $2,555.67 For a single HO scale plastic American Flyer Tank car, with the box. It must be some sort of record..? Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3774	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

I see it this way.  There were at least two people who really wanted that car.  So based on that selling price someone else who also has one decides to put his up--and either it goes "no bid" or for the opening amount. The competition is no longer there--the first guy wanted it bad enough to pay a "bundle and a half" for it--the next guy gets his cheap.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Riverboy To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 3:51 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see the listing? Hello,   I am a long time seller on eBay of ( mostly HO ) model trains ( all vintages ) and other items , and I've seen things sell for wat higher than I imgined. I always have relatively low opening bids and almost never a reserve . A good example is about a year ago, I listed an Aurora Model Motoring HO dark blue Mustang with a white stripe on it . Very good condition , but no box . Opening bid of $7.99I was figuring I'd be lucky to get $35 to $40 . It sold for well over $400   .   It just goes  to show that bidders are willing to pay for something they really want . Can't always blame sellers. They only set the opening bids .   Riverboy   cnj999 <jbortle@aol. com> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > HOLY COW! > > Check out the Ebay listing: > > HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 OB Liner EX + Item number: > 320117710066 > > It sold for $2,555.67 > > For a single HO scale plastic American Flyer Tank car, with the box. > > It must be some sort of record..? > I can only offer that it is yet another example of the moneyed stupidity that we are seeing pervade the hobby more and more nowadays. About a week ago on eBay an auction house offered a cardboard shipping box for a Lionel O-guage 1963 GG-1 set - no trains whatever within, mind you, just an empty cardboard box - that sold for $5,100! The only idetifying mark the box carried was a paste-on Lionel shipping label. And in addition, the winner had to pay a $40 shipping charge (if damaged in shipment, I'd love to see someone try to make a claim of a $5,100 loss on an empty cardboard box to UPS). As a collector of early HO I can understand that there may be some sort of personal value to a particular model, perhaps even to having the original display box it came in. But the plain cardboard shipping carton? Maybe it's time to put up my half eaten ham sandwich that mystically appears to have the image of George Bush on it! CNJ999 It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3775	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

I knew I'd seen it. This is old Bowser information, shows all sorts of what appears to be altered Mantua engines, 2-8-4's, 0-8-0's, 2-8-0's. http://hoseeker.net/mantuainformation/mantua1981pg02.jpg Loks like Bowser had them, and the top of all three pages says "Mantua". Dave > > In April, 1988, I bought from Mantua (by mail from their Woodbury > Heights, NJ address) a set of their replacement parts lists. These > turned out to be the assembly instructions for each locomotive and > car kit. > > Included in this set is one for a Berkshire 2-8-4. It is 4 pages > long. At the end of the last page, in the fine print, it says 1/80 > and 55-0033. There is a small and fuzzy photo of a locomotive at the > top of the first page. Otherwise, there are only line drawings of > assembly stages. I assume this sheet was written or revised in > January of 1980. > > Looking at part numbers, most of the Berkshire is the same pieces as > the Mikado. The differences I see are: The frame has a different part > number, the boiler has a different number, and the trailing truck > parts are different. The valve mechanism parts are a different > style, too. The tender is the same as with the Mike. > > This does not prove the kits were ever actually released, but at > least Mantua got as far as making specific instruction sheets for > them in the 1980s. > > Dick Moessner > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: > > > > To all and any one. I am trying to find what may be a figment of my > imagination. Do Mantua Berkshires exist? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3776	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Moessner" <rb_train@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 2:59 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? > In April, 1988, I bought from Mantua (by mail from their Woodbury > Heights, NJ address) a set of their replacement parts lists. These > turned out to be the assembly instructions for each locomotive and > car kit. > > Included in this set is one for a Berkshire 2-8-4. It is 4 pages > long. At the end of the last page, in the fine print, it says 1/80 > and 55-0033. There is a small and fuzzy photo of a locomotive at the > top of the first page. Otherwise, there are only line drawings of > assembly stages. I assume this sheet was written or revised in > January of 1980. > > Looking at part numbers, most of the Berkshire is the same pieces as > the Mikado. The differences I see are: The frame has a different part > number, the boiler has a different number, and the trailing truck > parts are different. The valve mechanism parts are a different > style, too. The tender is the same as with the Mike. > > This does not prove the kits were ever actually released, but at > least Mantua got as far as making specific instruction sheets for > them in the 1980s. > > Dick Moessner The Berk, as well as the Consolidation, Hudson and Decapod were all listed in the Walthers' catalog for several years in the early 1980's. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3777	From: cnj999	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I knew I'd seen it. > This is old Bowser information, shows all sorts of what appears to > be altered Mantua engines, 2-8-4's, 0-8-0's, 2-8-0's. > http://hoseeker.net/mantuainformation/mantua1981pg02.jpg > > Loks like Bowser had them, and the top of all three pages > says "Mantua". > > Dave Dave - Your link shows a standard Mantua ad/product listing circa 1980 and shortly thereafter. All these locomotives were in production, although the Berk and Decapod didn't run for very long. Based on my 1984 Mantua Parts Catalog, the Berk was derived from Mantua's Pacific Boiler, what appears to be a re-worked Mikado frame, plus what may be the Hudson's trailing truck. Interestingly, this ad shows the Berk without any valve gear, although it's called for in the catalog. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3778	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

While I believe you, I searched all three pages for a date and found none. Dave > > > > I knew I'd seen it. > > This is old Bowser information, shows all sorts of what appears to > > be altered Mantua engines, 2-8-4's, 0-8-0's, 2-8-0's. > > http://hoseeker.net/mantuainformation/mantua1981pg02.jpg > > > > Loks like Bowser had them, and the top of all three pages > > says "Mantua". > > > > Dave > > Dave - Your link shows a standard Mantua ad/product listing circa 1980 > and shortly thereafter. All these locomotives were in production, > although the Berk and Decapod didn't run for very long. Based on my > 1984 Mantua Parts Catalog, the Berk was derived from Mantua's Pacific > Boiler, what appears to be a re-worked Mikado frame, plus what may be > the Hudson's trailing truck. Interestingly, this ad shows the Berk > without any valve gear, although it's called for in the catalog. > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3779	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

I have a set of those somewhere (well--I can narrow it down to 2 or 3 piles of boxes----)--I used to have a thriving thing going replacing the traction tire drivers with plain ones for the local group--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Moessner" <rb_train@comcast. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 2:59 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? > In April, 1988, I bought from Mantua (by mail from their Woodbury > Heights, NJ address) a set of their replacement parts lists. These > turned out to be the assembly instructions for each locomotive and > car kit. > > Included in this set is one for a Berkshire 2-8-4. It is 4 pages > long. At the end of the last page, in the fine print, it says 1/80 > and 55-0033. There is a small and fuzzy photo of a locomotive at the > top of the first page. Otherwise, there are only line drawings of > assembly stages. I assume this sheet was written or revised in > January of 1980. > > Looking at part numbers, most of the Berkshire is the same pieces as > the Mikado. The differences I see are: The frame has a different part > number, the boiler has a different number, and the trailing truck > parts are different. The valve mechanism parts are a different > style, too. The tender is the same as with the Mike. > > This does not prove the kits were ever actually released, but at > least Mantua got as far as making specific instruction sheets for > them in the 1980s. > > Dick Moessner The Berk, as well as the Consolidation, Hudson and Decapod were all listed in the Walthers' catalog for several years in the early 1980's. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3780	From: cnj999	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

Dave - As an addendum to my previous post, I note that a pristine example of the Mantua Berk sold just three days ago on eBay! CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3781	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

I kmow they were made, just didn't know when, but my understanding was before Model Power. Dave > Dave - As an addendum to my previous post, I note that a pristine > example of the Mantua Berk sold just three days ago on eBay! > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3782	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro

Hi Andy, I've been away a few days, or I would have posted sooner. Just wanted to welcome you to the Group -- better late than never. I'm sure with your interest in these older models you'll enjoy it here as much as we'll enjoy having you. The topics here are boundless and I'm sure no one person knows all about everything made, but with everyone's cooperation we may get to the bottom of many topics brought up. If not, we'll at least have a lot of fun trying. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > I guess I should have joined this group a long time ago... unlike > many folks in the hobby, I did NOT start out with Lionel or Flyer, but > with the subject of this list: Vintage HO. > > My very first operable (and I use the term loosely) train was made by > "Circle Twenty". It was roughly HO gauge, on 2-rail tinplate track > and used an AC transformer. The rolling stock was a thick hollow > plastic shell with one axle at each end, painted a solid color with a > silver sticker on each side that said "Circle Twenty". It died > famously when I was about 3 years old. > > I grew up with Mantua steamers, Mantua, MDC, Varney, and Athearn metal > cars that my parents had procured... by the time I was 8-9 years old > all the new stuff we were buying was plastic. > > I even had some "HO by Lionel"... I think my HO exploding box car was > Lionel badged; I also had a Santa Fe fluted coach that was similar in > construction to the Tyco/Mantua cars but slightly longer and a > different window arrangement. Seems like Lionel HO was always made by > somebody else... including the Athearn-made GP7 and ersatz E33 electric. > > We also had a few pieces of Fleischmann... German prototypes with > tinplate sides painted in UP colors. > > One of my sentimental favorites remains the John English Hobbyline > cast metal passenger cars. There was a combine and a coach - often > died of zamac disease, or warped into the shape of a Spanish galion. > Similar cars were done in plastic under the Penn Line and Varney > labels, and are still available (with the addition of a shorty diner, > Pullman, and obs) in the Life-Like toy line. > > I have been admittedly dabbling on ebay the past couple of years and > buying intact versions of stuff I had as a kid now long destroyed... > including the Fleischmann UP "Pullman", and even a dual motor Mantua > "F9" in B&O.... in the original box even. > > It's really a fun diversion from prototype modeling. I've even though > about building a small 4x8 layout with brass fiber tie flex track, to > hook up my Marn-O-Power and run those old ozone-smelling, open-frame > beasties. And keep the brite boy handy. > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3783	From: cnj999	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I kmow they were made, just didn't know when, but my understanding was > before Model Power. > Dave > > > Dave - As an addendum to my previous post, I note that a pristine > > example of the Mantua Berk sold just three days ago on eBay! > > > > CNJ999 > > > As to the question of "when", I went through a few older MR's this morning to check. In a 1982 issue I found several outlets offering both the 2-8-4 and 2-10-0 for sale RTR, while the Mantua magazine ads were indicating these items as available in both kit and RTR form. Hobby shop ads were still carrying both locos in 1984. I couldn't reference later issues to see how long this continued. Prices were in the $35-$45 range at the time, suggesting these are probably worth around $75-$100 on the re-sale market today. Incidentally, the NEB&W reference site suggests there was a distinct 0-10-0 switcher offered, probably about this time also, although I can find no actual indication of that, nor do I recall ever having seen one. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3784	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

This seems to be the latest post on this subject, so I'd like to pick up from here, adding to it.  I've read many valid comments, but it still comes down to defining exactly what is meant by "vintage," when used in the context of HO models.  Perhaps some of this is subjective, since it appears that some answers reflected more or less what the modeler prefers to collect.  Its almost as if "vintage" can be used synonymously with "collectable" since that is what has become of them by most of us and others, even though we know the term refers more to the item's age and the era of when it was produced. I'd have to say that vintage H0 must go back to the beginnings of when they first started being produced, with most of those older models being highly collectable, since not only are they increasingly harder to find, but those pre-War models had much smaller production runs.  I doubt if there's anyone who could argue about Varney and Mantua pre-War engines being vintage, even if they prefer not to collect any one of these manufacturers' rolling stock.  While some of this early rolling stock by these and yet other manufacturers left at least something to be desired as far as prototypical appearance, it was all never the less vintage, and sometimes their rather crude appearance added to their collectability. As for how long (or how recently) the vintage period of model making extended to, I prefer to align it right along with the continued manufacturing of the original producers (or their immediate successors) of craftsman style kits who were still making these kits during the hey-day of the vintage period, which continued in many cases right into the 1970's; examples of this would be Ulrich, and Silver Streak (by Pacfic H0), even if they were by then produced by Walthers, for as long as they were still producing the same roadnames.  When Walthers started producing other roadnames for these models, I'd have to say they were no longer vintage.  Other examples I would use as vintage, with craftsman kits, still in the '70's would be Ambroid, Northeastern Scale Models, Central Valley, Main Line Models, Scotia Scale Models, Alexander and Quality Craft to name a few. Like Glenn, I too go along with cut off points of what I consider to be vintage engine manufacturers such as Varney, Roundhouse and original Mantua, but while using this, I'd have to say also that there is no definite cutting off point for vintage as a whole -- it kind of tapers off as each early manufacturer drops by the wayside until more modern prototypes, materials and construction techniques dominate the hobby scene.  While I consider vintage to especially include metal, wood or metal & wood (and tenite) as being vintage for the most part, early plastic (Athearn cars & engines and Globe engines and even Train Miniature) cannot be overlooked to be included as vintage.  "First generation" Athearn rolling stock is considered by many as vintage and is highly collectable by some.  Much sought after are those original 40' ice bunker reefers with the operating doors (no, I don't mean electrically operated).  Then there's Bowser, which fortunately never quits, even if their prices have risen dramatically.  They at least make USRA versions of some models which can lend to other roads besides PRR.  Can't really call these "vintage" although their earlier OOP models like the brass ex-Knapp's Mountain can certainly be considered as such, as well as their predecessor's models produced by Penn Line.  Certainly, using a period from the mid to late ' 30's, through the '40's and ' 50's and somewhere into the ' 60's during tapering off should cause no arguement, with final tapering in the ' 70's    Ray W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3785	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: New car

Attachments : Got anothe junque box piece back on the layout last night. I have no clue what this is, it is all wood, and I am assuming it was a kit because the sides do appear to be milled. I have two of these, and the parts are too consistant to be scratchbuilt. Anyone have any ideas? Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3786	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

Letting the dust first "settle" on this one, and seeing where Dick had sent for and received instruction sheets for the Mantua Berkshire, I can add that they EXIST and were Produced by MANTUA, even though Bowser may have carried them in their catalog -- they usually carried other manufacturers. My 1980 Mantua Catalog (16 pages) includes their complete line of both older and their latest, newer models at that time, all which had the familiar Pacific and Mikado boilers of previous years, even though those parts may have had different catalog numbers (Varney used different catalog numbers at times for the same boilers with different models). All locomotive models in the catalog were offered only as Ready-To-Run, with these newer steam engines (with their newly designed and engineered mechanisms/running gear) being produced in a different series of four road names each. These models included; the 4-6-4 Hudson (#316 Series), the 2-8-4 Berkshire (#317 Series) and the 2-10-0 Decapod (#318 Series). The pictures included in Dave's link below are the same identical ones included in this catalog. Interestingly, while the old Pacific and Mikado was still offered here, also included were revised models of these same engines which had added details including feedwater heater, front-mounted generator, number boards, front deck mounted air tanks (similar to Bowser's PRR I-1), etc., depending on which model and a Vanderbilt tender. These improved Pacific (Series #320) and Mikados (Series #321) were also produced in a series of four roadnames only, each. All these newer Mantua models were offered in the 1980 Walthers Catalog. By 1984, these Mantua models disappeared from Walthers. Note that for Undecorated models, the first digit of the Series number was changes to a "5" instead of a "3"; as an example, "Series #521" instead of "Series #321". Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I knew I'd seen it. > This is old Bowser information, shows all sorts of what appears to > be altered Mantua engines, 2-8-4's, 0-8-0's, 2-8-0's. > http://hoseeker.net/mantuainformation/mantua1981pg02.jpg > > Loks like Bowser had them, and the top of all three pages > says "Mantua". > > Dave > > > > > > In April, 1988, I bought from Mantua (by mail from their Woodbury > > Heights, NJ address) a set of their replacement parts lists. These > > turned out to be the assembly instructions for each locomotive and > > car kit. > > > > Included in this set is one for a Berkshire 2-8-4. It is 4 pages > > long. At the end of the last page, in the fine print, it says 1/80 > > and 55-0033. There is a small and fuzzy photo of a locomotive at > the > > top of the first page. Otherwise, there are only line drawings of > > assembly stages. I assume this sheet was written or revised in > > January of 1980. > > > > Looking at part numbers, most of the Berkshire is the same pieces > as > > the Mikado. The differences I see are: The frame has a different > part > > number, the boiler has a different number, and the trailing truck > > parts are different. The valve mechanism parts are a different > > style, too. The tender is the same as with the Mike. > > > > This does not prove the kits were ever actually released, but at > > least Mantua got as far as making specific instruction sheets for > > them in the 1980s. > > > > Dick Moessner > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: > > > > > > To all and any one. I am trying to find what may be a figment of > my > > imagination. Do Mantua Berkshires exist? > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3787	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Mantua Berk

>4e. Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one? > Posted by: "curmudgeon" idioticyahoo@... trainsnwrcs > Date: Sat Jun 2, 2007 8:56 pm ((PDT)) > >While I believe you, I searched all three pages for a date and found >none. My loose leaf folder with Mantua/Tyco parts has a sheet for the Mantua Berk dated 8/88. Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3788	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

There's no indication of a Mantua 0-10-0 Switcher in 1980, although it could have been produced in subsequent years. There was a U.S.R.A. ALCo & Tender 0-8-0 in both the 1980 Mantua and Walthers catalogs. These were offered as Ready To Run in Northern Pacific (#314-04), New York Central (#314-22), Southern Railway (#314-40), Chicago & N.W. (#314-64) and Grand Trunk Western (#314-71). The Undecorated kit was #514; BTW, all of Mantua's Undecorated offerings, including those of the Hudson, Berkshire and Decapod mentioned in my previous post came as kits starting when they were first introduced. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cnj999" <jbortle@...> wrote: > > As to the question of "when", I went through a few older MR's this > morning to check. In a 1982 issue I found several outlets offering > both the 2-8-4 and 2-10-0 for sale RTR, while the Mantua magazine ads > were indicating these items as available in both kit and RTR form. > Hobby shop ads were still carrying both locos in 1984. I couldn't > reference later issues to see how long this continued. Prices were in > the $35-$45 range at the time, suggesting these are probably worth > around $75-$100 on the re-sale market today. > > Incidentally, the NEB&W reference site suggests there was a distinct > 0-10-0 switcher offered, probably about this time also, although I > can find no actual indication of that, nor do I recall ever having > seen one. > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3789	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Berk

That's good to know, Ray. At least now we know the Mantua Berk was made for at least 8 years, even if Walthers no longer carried them after a while. In that case, they can't be all that rare. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobin <tcol@...> wrote: > > My loose leaf folder with Mantua/Tyco parts has a sheet for the Mantua Berk > dated 8/88. > > Ray Hobin > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine] >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3790	From: Scott	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS

Some great containers as well on those flats Roger!   Scott   On 6/2/07, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: A picture of two 60's era American Train and Track container flats just north of Hilbert Junction on my home layout. Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3791	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

Opps, I just came across my 1981 Mantua catalog and my 1982 Mantua sales order booklet, which I had forgotten about. Neither one lists an 0-10-0 Switcher, so we know it must have been produced later if it does exist. Its existance is still possible, since their 1981 catalog introduced yet another steam engine, stating; "Mantua presents the first in a new series." While this is in reference to their new 2-6-6-2T Articulated Logger engine, it shows Mantua had plans to keep introducing other models. Incidentally, offered new in 1981, in addition to their 2-8-2 Camelback, they came out with a 4-6-2 Camelback that year. Other innovations were Synchronized Smoke-N-Sound and a new drive system consisting of an MG-81 Motor & Gear Box. More brass lost-wax castings of detail parts on their Mark II Series of steam engines were also offered at this time. List prices in 1982 for Mantua's Hudson was $58.00. The Berkshire was listed at $$62.00 and the Decapod was listed at $64.00; these were the Undecorated kits. The Ready To Run engines were listed at $70.00 for the Hudson, $75.00 for the Berkshire and $75.00 for the Decapod. The new Mark II Pacific was listed at $90.00, while the Mark II Mikado was listed at $97.00. The Mark II Consolidation was $88.00. BTW, the Articulated Logger was listed at $110.00 and there was an Articulated Logger w/Tender (tender not shown) listed at $125.00. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > There's no indication of a Mantua 0-10-0 Switcher in 1980, although > it could have been produced in subsequent years. There was a > U.S.R.A. ALCo & Tender 0-8-0 in both the 1980 Mantua and Walthers > catalogs. These were offered as Ready To Run in Northern Pacific > (#314-04), New York Central (#314-22), Southern Railway (#314-40), > Chicago & N.W. (#314-64) and Grand Trunk Western (#314-71). The > Undecorated kit was #514; BTW, all of Mantua's Undecorated offerings, > including those of the Hudson, Berkshire and Decapod mentioned in my > previous post came as kits starting when they were first introduced. > Ray W. > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cnj999" <jbortle@> wrote: > > > > As to the question of "when", I went through a few older MR's this > > morning to check. In a 1982 issue I found several outlets offering > > both the 2-8-4 and 2-10-0 for sale RTR, while the Mantua magazine > ads > > were indicating these items as available in both kit and RTR form. > > Hobby shop ads were still carrying both locos in 1984. I couldn't > > reference later issues to see how long this continued. Prices were > in > > the $35-$45 range at the time, suggesting these are probably worth > > around $75-$100 on the re-sale market today. > > > > Incidentally, the NEB&W reference site suggests there was a > distinct > > 0-10-0 switcher offered, probably about this time also, although I > > can find no actual indication of that, nor do I recall ever having > > seen one. > > > > CNJ999 > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3792	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS

Hello Scott   The AT&T company was initially located just down the road in Cedarburg, WI.  I believe the founder was a ancestor of the current president of Athearn.  Roger       ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] AT&T CONTAINER FLATS Some great containers as well on those flats Roger!   Scott   On 6/2/07, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: A picture of two 60's era American Train and Track container flats just north of Hilbert Junction on my home layout. Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3793	From: cnj999	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > List prices in 1982 for Mantua's Hudson was $58.00. The Berkshire > was listed at $$62.00 and the Decapod was listed at $64.00; these > were the Undecorated kits. The Ready To Run engines were listed at > $70.00 for the Hudson, $75.00 for the Berkshire and $75.00 for the > Decapod. The new Mark II Pacific was listed at $90.00, while the > Mark II Mikado was listed at $97.00. The Mark II Consolidation was > $88.00. BTW, the Articulated Logger was listed at $110.00 and there > was an Articulated Logger w/Tender (tender not shown) listed at > $125.00. Ray W. > Early evidence, perhaps, of how wildly out of step with the market Mantua's pricing would shortly become? I note that the street prices for these models in 1984 through Trainworld were just $50 for the Mark II Mikado and a little less for the Hudson. Both the Berk and the Decapod were priced at $50, while the Logger w/tender was under $70 (each up by $10-$12 over the previous 2-3 years). The excessive list pricing/direct purchase figures for Mantua engines perhaps culminated with the later introduction of their truly pricey Collector series of locomotives, into which I believe the Mark II's morphed after not selling well to regular hobbyists. Seemingly aimed at folks on the fringes of, or even outside the hobby (i.e. Danbury Mint-type collectors), they often had their brass "super detail" apprutenances left unpainted on an otherwise beautifully factory painted model! Really a very strange concept in a time when hobbyists were becoming increasingly sophisticated regarding their models. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3794	From: donvdh	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Cast American Flyer - Vintage?

1st question - To those of you who mentioned having access to size information on the Mantua Berkshires is the boiler length given or any comparison in size to the Mikado's? 2nd question - Is American Flyer cast considered vintage? I saw only one passing reference to Marx "slash \" American Flyer in the general discussion. I have 3 cast American Flyer tank cars, 1 of which has had the manufacturer's name ground off the end cap for some reason. They are incomplete with tank shell and under carriage only. 1 has the grab rail but no man cap , other 2 are nothing but shell including the 1 with the name ground off. I also have a cast open hopper with under carriage only. Unknown mfgr but fairly nice paint, no chips.All 4 undercarriages are unattached from shells. If these are vintage and anyone is interested I would like to be rid of them. I don't want to mess them up or degrade any value with modern parts if they have any. If you are interested in theses e-mail donvdh@.... Thanks, Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3795	From: Scott	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS

Nice little bit of background info Roger. I marvel at what I learn everyday about the Pennsy, PC, NYC, EL, Erie, CNJ as well....   Scott   On 6/3/07, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: Hello Scott   The AT&T company was initially located just down the road in Cedarburg, WI.  I believe the founder was a ancestor of the current president of Athearn.  Roger       ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] AT&T CONTAINER FLATS   Some great containers as well on those flats Roger!   Scott   On 6/2/07, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: A picture of two 60's era American Train and Track container flats just north of Hilbert Junction on my home layout. Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3796	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: historicrail

Hi:  My son send to me,  It call  www.HISTORIC RAIL.com.                             Ray L                        I had a Stroke Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3797	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Unusual Lionel Hustler

Here's some rare Lionel HO on ebay right now. The seller claims "rarest" even. It has a nice shot of the bottom of the geared Lionel version of the Athearn Hustler 300116103729 LIONEL HO RAREST PIECE, D-301 NBC DESK SET (C-10) MINT RARE DESK SET PRODUCED FOR TOP NBC EXECUTIVES IN 1959 Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3798	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler

I think you and I would call this a custom printed, standard Lionel. With a paper sign to go in the standard Lionel billboard. It will be interesting to see what it sells for........ Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jun 3, 2007, at 4:26 PM, ckinzer@... wrote: Here's some rare Lionel HO on ebay right now. The seller claims "rarest" even. It has a nice shot of the bottom of the geared Lionel version of the Athearn Hustler 300116103729 LIONEL HO RAREST PIECE, D-301 NBC DESK SET (C-10) MINT RARE DESK SET PRODUCED FOR TOP NBC EXECUTIVES IN 1959

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3799	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

Most product lines seem to have a point at which a major technology change takes place--such as the change from metal to plastic.  In the Penn Line and Bowser lines, one such point is the change from die cast frames to brass frames. ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: What qualifies as vintage HO This seems to be the latest post on this subject, so I'd like to pick up from here, adding to it.  I've read many valid comments, but it still comes down to defining exactly what is meant by "vintage," when used in the context of HO models.  Perhaps some of this is subjective, since it appears that some answers reflected more or less what the modeler prefers to collect.  Its almost as if "vintage" can be used synonymously with "collectable" since that is what has become of them by most of us and others, even though we know the term refers more to the item's age and the era of when it was produced. I'd have to say that vintage H0 must go back to the beginnings of when they first started being produced, with most of those older models being highly collectable, since not only are they increasingly harder to find, but those pre-War models had much smaller production runs.  I doubt if there's anyone who could argue about Varney and Mantua pre-War engines being vintage, even if they prefer not to collect any one of these manufacturers' rolling stock.  While some of this early rolling stock by these and yet other manufacturers left at least something to be desired as far as prototypical appearance, it was all never the less vintage, and sometimes their rather crude appearance added to their collectability. As for how long (or how recently) the vintage period of model making extended to, I prefer to align it right along with the continued manufacturing of the original producers (or their immediate successors) of craftsman style kits who were still making these kits during the hey-day of the vintage period, which continued in many cases right into the 1970's; examples of this would be Ulrich, and Silver Streak (by Pacfic H0), even if they were by then produced by Walthers, for as long as they were still producing the same roadnames.  When Walthers started producing other roadnames for these models, I'd have to say they were no longer vintage.  Other examples I would use as vintage, with craftsman kits, still in the '70's would be Ambroid, Northeastern Scale Models, Central Valley, Main Line Models, Scotia Scale Models, Alexander and Quality Craft to name a few. Like Glenn, I too go along with cut off points of what I consider to be vintage engine manufacturers such as Varney, Roundhouse and original Mantua, but while using this, I'd have to say also that there is no definite cutting off point for vintage as a whole -- it kind of tapers off as each early manufacturer drops by the wayside until more modern prototypes, materials and construction techniques dominate the hobby scene.  While I consider vintage to especially include metal, wood or metal & wood (and tenite) as being vintage for the most part, early plastic (Athearn cars & engines and Globe engines and even Train Miniature) cannot be overlooked to be included as vintage.  "First generation" Athearn rolling stock is considered by many as vintage and is highly collectable by some.  Much sought after are those original 40' ice bunker reefers with the operating doors (no, I don't mean electrically operated).  Then there's Bowser, which fortunately never quits, even if their prices have risen dramatically.  They at least make USRA versions of some models which can lend to other roads besides PRR.  Can't really call these "vintage" although their earlier OOP models like the brass ex-Knapp's Mountain can certainly be considered as such, as well as their predecessor' s models produced by Penn Line.  Certainly, using a period from the mid to late ' 30's, through the '40's and ' 50's and somewhere into the ' 60's during tapering off should cause no arguement, with final tapering in the ' 70's    Ray W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3800	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Crown HO

Hello Don: Thanks for the reply. They are older than I thought. I was looking for an equivalent to Athearn blue box series. The under frames are not like Bachmann or Life-Like as they have body mounted couplers. I suppose the bodies could be adapted to other styles of chassis. I am in need of a quantity of undecorated kits without the hassle of Horizon Hobby. Regards, Al See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3801	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: historicrail

I think that's a catalog company-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Lorts Sr To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] historicrail Hi:  My son send to me,  It call  www.HISTORIC RAIL.com.                             Ray L                        I had a Stroke Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3802	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unusual Lionel Hustler >I think you and I would call this a custom printed, standard Lionel. > With a paper sign to go in the standard Lionel billboard. > > It will be interesting to see what it sells for........ > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA PING to Mike, you might be interested in these from the same seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-6828-HARNISCHFEGER-CRANE-CAR-C-10-MINT_W0QQitemZ300116058999 http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-6827-HARNISCHFEGER-POWER-SHOVEL-CAR-C-10-MINT_W0QQitemZ300116057663 Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3803	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO

With Bowser the, that would place it in the mid 1970's I believe. Not only do their catalogs reflect that, but when I sent for replacements for two warped Heavy Mountain (zamac boiler) frames around 1975-76, I was sent zamac frames. My ' 74 and ' 75 Bowser catalogs show all engines with zamac frames. When I bought a K-4 Pacific kit the following year (1977), it came with a brass frame. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Most product lines seem to have a point at which a major technology change takes place--such as the change from metal to plastic. In the Penn Line and Bowser lines, one such point is the change from die cast frames to brass frames. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 6:38 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: What qualifies as vintage HO > > > This seems to be the latest post on this subject, so I'd like to pick up from here, adding to it. I've read many valid comments, but it still comes down to defining exactly what is meant by "vintage," when used in the context of HO models. Perhaps some of this is subjective, since it appears that some answers reflected more or less what the modeler prefers to collect. Its almost as if "vintage" can be used synonymously with "collectable" since that is what has become of them by most of us and others, even though we know the term refers more to the item's age and the era of when it was produced. > > I'd have to say that vintage H0 must go back to the beginnings of when they first started being produced, with most of those older models being highly collectable, since not only are they increasingly harder to find, but those pre-War models had much smaller production runs. I doubt if there's anyone who could argue about Varney and Mantua pre-War engines being vintage, even if they prefer not to collect any one of these manufacturers' rolling stock. While some of this early rolling stock by these and yet other manufacturers left at least something to be desired as far as prototypical appearance, it was all never the less vintage, and sometimes their rather crude appearance added to their collectability. > > As for how long (or how recently) the vintage period of model making extended to, I prefer to align it right along with the continued manufacturing of the original producers (or their immediate successors) of craftsman style kits who were still making these kits during the hey-day of the vintage period, which continued in many cases right into the 1970's; examples of this would be Ulrich, and Silver Streak (by Pacfic H0), even if they were by then produced by Walthers, for as long as they were still producing the same roadnames. When Walthers started producing other roadnames for these models, I'd have to say they were no longer vintage. Other examples I would use as vintage, with craftsman kits, still in the '70's would be Ambroid, Northeastern Scale Models, Central Valley, Main Line Models, Scotia Scale Models, Alexander and Quality Craft to name a few. > > Like Glenn, I too go along with cut off points of what I consider to be vintage engine manufacturers such as Varney, Roundhouse and original Mantua, but while using this, I'd have to say also that there is no definite cutting off point for vintage as a whole -- it kind of tapers off as each early manufacturer drops by the wayside until more modern prototypes, materials and construction techniques dominate the hobby scene. While I consider vintage to especially include metal, wood or metal & wood (and tenite) as being vintage for the most part, early plastic (Athearn cars & engines and Globe engines and even Train Miniature) cannot be overlooked to be included as vintage. "First generation" Athearn rolling stock is considered by many as vintage and is highly collectable by some. Much sought after are those original 40' ice bunker reefers with the operating doors (no, I don't mean electrically operated). Then there's Bowser, which fortunately never quits, even if their prices have risen dramatically. They at least make USRA versions of some models which can lend to other roads besides PRR. Can't really call these "vintage" although their earlier OOP models like the brass ex- Knapp's Mountain can certainly be considered as such, as well as their predecessor's models produced by Penn Line. Certainly, using a period from the mid to late ' 30's, through the '40's and ' 50's and somewhere into the ' 60's during tapering off should cause no arguement, with final tapering in the ' 70's Ray W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3804	From: donvdh	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Cast to Brass?

OK guys. Since I by choice and overall uninformed ignorance am actually here to learn a question on cast vs. brass other than the period swing. Which is a better metal for undercarriage\frame use? Which is better for general use? How do you attach brass detailing to cast boilers or shells when you can't, as I've been told, solder the cast? Epoxy, JB Weld, etc?  Also, I've noticed no input on my cast American Flyer question. Is cast American Flyer equipment (I have 3 incomplete tank cars) considered vintage? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3805	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: historicrail

Yes Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: I think that's a catalog company-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Lorts Sr To: vintageho@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] historicrail Hi:  My son send to me,  It call  www.HISTORIC RAIL.com.                             Ray L                        I had a Stroke Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3806	From: erieberk	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

FYI, there were a lot fewer Penn Line Crusaders made than what you're indicating. The number of these engines which where produced is shown in the text of the last eBay ad (eBay #300099868252) to have sold one of these engines (for $1625), on April 15th of this year. In it, it is stated that there were 300 units made; 100 which were factory built and 200 kits. This supports what Lou English had told me many years ago when our conversation came around to that, and even though Lou didn't produce them, he seemed quite authoritative on the subject. It sounded like that wasn't the first time that came up with him. On ther subject of a Globe "metal wine car," to the best of my knowledge and the knowledge of the rest of my friends in the group of long-time hobbyist who helped Dallas Mallerich with his "Greenberg's Guide to Athearn Trains" book (We covered Globe in this book), Globe never produced a metal wine car. I'm not saying it was not made -- perhaps it was a prototype model designed to pattern a production run after, which never came about. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Roma Wine metal tank car produced by Thomas Industries? I'd be curious to know the roadname. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...> wrote: > > FWIW the production run of Penn Line RDG Crusaders was 500 to 700. Not 50. > > People collect trains, like cars, stamps, coins, toys, etc. If the $2000 > spent on a tank car was spent on an old car (automobile), nobody would > question it. How about a Globe (ho Gauge) metal wine car. A friend owns > one and I have examined it and believe it to be original. > > Men and boys all have toys. Only the price is different. > > Garry Spear >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3807	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler

ARGHHH......... The prices........ the prices......... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jun 3, 2007, at 7:21 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bauers" > > >> I think you and I would call this a custom printed, standard Lionel. >> With a paper sign to go in the standard Lionel billboard. >> >> It will be interesting to see what it sells for........ >> >> Best to ya' >> Mike Bauers >> Milwaukee Wi, USA > > PING to Mike, you might be interested in these from the same seller: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-6828-HARNISCHFEGER-CRANE-CAR-C-10- > MINT_W0QQitemZ300116058999 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-6827-HARNISCHFEGER-POWER-SHOVEL-CAR-C-10- > MINT_W0QQitemZ300116057663

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3808	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler

And worse yet, you don't really even get to see the item urwrapped............:-) _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i�m Initiative now. It�s free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_June07

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3809	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?

General rule.......... Stay away from any zamak cast in the Korean War period........ just plain bad metal alloy that was used in those years of material shortages.  Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jun 3, 2007, at 8:02 PM, donvdh wrote: OK guys. Since I by choice and overall uninformed ignorance am actually here to learn a question on cast vs. brass other than the period swing. Which is a better metal for undercarriage\frame use? Which is better for general use? How do you attach brass detailing to cast boilers or shells when you can't, as I've been told, solder the cast? Epoxy, JB Weld, etc?  Also, I've noticed no input on my cast American Flyer question. Is cast American Flyer equipment (I have 3 incomplete tank cars) considered vintage? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3810	From: cnj999	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer - Vintage?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > 1st question - To those of you who mentioned having access to size information on the Mantua Berkshires is the boiler length given or any comparison in size to the Mikado's? > 2nd question... > Don V. > Mantua's exploded diagrams do not provide dimensional information. However, the boiler for the Berk and that of the standard Pacific are identical with the exception that the nub on top of the boiler to hold the bell on the Pacific has been removed and a new hole drilled and tapped on the top of the smokebox door for a different style bell to be attached (explaining why the two boilers differ in catalog #). The engine's frame, however, was totally unique to the Berk, not an obvious adaptation from one of the other models, but (naturally) does resemble that of the Mike. The frame also employed a different valve gear hanger from the other road locomotives in the Mantua line at the time. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3811	From: donvdh	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Update on rarest Lionel switcher

Last bidder - newel bidder number ID - $5512.00. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3812	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: The annual "do" is over

3 minutes to 2100 local. Been prepping for months, paint, clean, trim, roof clean, etc. Had 40-50 folks here for the family birthday bash- railroad themed as in the past 12 or 13 years. Two bbq's going at the lower end, covered awning thingie at the upper end. Make the burgers or dogs, toothpick with name on small label suck in, set in banana split "boats", placed in goindolas and flats with stakes, and run yo the upper level (150' of 4%, then another 50-60' of level", folks grabbed their burgers and the dinner train went back down, into the "hole" to meet the next uphill train. Started at 1300, but I had trains and buildings out by noon. LONG day. Ice cream cake afterwards, and then we buttoned up. Something we can't do in half-0. And it just started raining like heck. But it was over 85 during the day. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3813	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher

And even more interesting: Reserve not met Loren _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine�s 2007 editors� choice for best Web mail�award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3814	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: One and a half "nuggets" from the bash.....

One of my regular operators here on the CCRy came to the bash. He gave me a "present" early, unwrapped. It is a Mantua box. Inside is an assembled early Version 2 Mikado (hole for bell mount on smokebox front), unpainted, cast cab, cast tender, lots of cardboard adhering to it. But, the boiler installed is painted Version 3, with a new Version 3 chassis (siderods, drivers, frame, motor, gears, lower cover0 loose in the box. The original boiler is in the box, with original handrails and stanchions. All that appears to be missing is the bell and bracket, tender ladder, and rear coupler. The flash hasn't even been knocked off. The full set of instructions, dated 1952 and 1953, were in the bottom of the box. Looks like I get to add a third Version 2 Mike to the roster. I may have to dig out the old selenium plates and big windings for a triple-head........ File, sand, paint........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3815	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer - Vintage?

This is from a guy who has owned these Mantuas for at least 50 years, and just recently gotten back into it with the same equipment and added equipment. I have been able to determine that the smokebox mounted bell was an early Version 2 (and earlier) component, while the top-of-the-boiler mount was later Version 2. While that may have used older boilers for this, I don't think they changed the molds to do it, but that's just a guess. I know 52-53 both Mike and Pacific were smokebox mounted, and I know by 59 or so they had moved up (1957 AHC ad shows still smokebox mounted). 1962 Tyco catalog show top of boiler mounting. Dave > Mantua's exploded diagrams do not provide dimensional information. > However, the boiler for the Berk and that of the standard Pacific are > identical with the exception that the nub on top of the boiler to > hold the bell on the Pacific has been removed and a new hole drilled > and tapped on the top of the smokebox door for a different style bell > to be attached (explaining why the two boilers differ in catalog #). > > The engine's frame, however, was totally unique to the Berk, not an > obvious adaptation from one of the other models, but (naturally) does > resemble that of the Mike. The frame also employed a different valve > gear hanger from the other road locomotives in the Mantua line at the > time. > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3816	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher

Up another $100 above that now and STILL "Reserve not met"   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Update on rarest Lionel switcher Last bidder - newel bidder number ID - $5512.00. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3817	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher

Gotta be some damned Mega-bucks CEO bidder....... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jun 3, 2007, at 10:42 PM, donvdh wrote: Last bidder - newel bidder number ID - $5512.00. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3818	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?

For those that wish to add brass fittings and detail to cast boilers, I have found success by using Tix flux and soldering. I drill a hole in the cast metal and fit the item into the hole snugly, then pull it our slightly add Tix flux and solder. When the solder is liquid, I push the item in the rest of the way. If I need to solder something flush, like a headlamp support with 4 small feet, I first drill 4 holes, tap them 00-90, use Tix flux and solder 00-90 screws in. I use a screwdriver to get them as far as I can while the solder is liquid. After it is cooled, I cut off the protruding ends, file smooth and now confidently solder the item to the brass spots in the boiler. It is amazing how well it works. However, I would definitely make sure I am using a good boiler that does not have Zamac cancer. I would sure hate to see all of that effort just crumble away. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Cast to Brass? Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 21:13:57 -0500 General rule.......... Stay away from any zamak cast in the Korean War period........ just plain bad metal alloy that was used in those years of material shortages. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jun 3, 2007, at 8:02 PM, donvdh wrote: >OK guys. Since I by choice and overall uninformed ignorance am actually >here to learn a question on cast vs. brass other than the period swing. >Which is a better metal for undercarriage\frame use? Which is better for >general use? How do you attach brass detailing to cast boilers or shells >when you can't, as I've been told, solder the cast? Epoxy, JB Weld, etc? >Also, I've noticed no input on my cast American Flyer question. Is cast >American Flyer equipment (I have 3 incomplete tank cars) considered >vintage? Don V. _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3819	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?

Mike- While it is a "general rule", based upon personal experience over the years and recent, I have a 948-ish JE Yardbird that the main and siderods crumbled 45 years ago. That's pre-Korea. I have a Version 2 Mantua Mike that the previous owner had a frame crumble. That's Korean vintage, yet, yesterday I was given an original, unpainted, mostly assembled, early Version 2 Mikado, instructions dated 52 (Korea vintage) with no problems, yet, as I was invoilved early, never did see any Athearn 250-ton cranes (late 50's to early 60's) that didn't have something crumbled, and that's post-Korea. I recently came across a 1965-1966 Varney that so far has the only Zamac parts NOT crumbled as the cylinders and main rods. And that is VERY post-Korea. > General rule.......... > > Stay away from any zamak cast in the Korean War period........ just > plain bad metal alloy that was used in those years of material > shortages. > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Jun 3, 2007, at 8:02 PM, donvdh wrote: > > > OK guys. Since I by choice and overall uninformed ignorance am > > actually here to learn a question on cast vs. brass other than the > > period swing. Which is a better metal for undercarriage\frame use? > > Which is better for general use? How do you attach brass detailing > > to cast boilers or shells when you can't, as I've been told, solder > > the cast? Epoxy, JB Weld, etc? Also, I've noticed no input on my > > cast American Flyer question. Is cast American Flyer equipment (I > > have 3 incomplete tank cars) considered vintage? Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3820	From: John Hagen	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher

Boy, am I glad I checked this group. I might have missed this. Gotta go and get my bid in. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Gotta be some damned Mega-bucks CEO bidder....... > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Jun 3, 2007, at 10:42 PM, donvdh wrote: > > > Last bidder - newel bidder number ID - $5512.00. Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3821	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

----- Original Message ----- From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see the listing? > FYI, there were a lot fewer Penn Line Crusaders made than what you're > indicating. The number of these engines which where produced is shown > in the text of the last eBay ad (eBay #300099868252) to have sold one > of these engines (for $1625), on April 15th of this year. In it, it is > stated that there were 300 units made; 100 which were factory built and > 200 kits. This supports what Lou English had told me many years ago > when our conversation came around to that, and even though Lou didn't > produce them, he seemed quite authoritative on the subject. It sounded > like that wasn't the first time that came up with him. > > On ther subject of a Globe "metal wine car," to the best of my > knowledge and the knowledge of the rest of my friends in the group of > long-time hobbyist who helped Dallas Mallerich with his "Greenberg's > Guide to Athearn Trains" book (We covered Globe in this book), Globe > never produced a metal wine car. I'm not saying it was not made -- > perhaps it was a prototype model designed to pattern a production run > after, which never came about. Are you sure you're not thinking of the > Roma Wine metal tank car produced by Thomas Industries? I'd be curious > to know the roadname. Ray W. There's a Thomas car in my photo album "zdon Dellmann's Stuff, misc." on the group home page. An example of what we were talking about earlier in this thread, these were going for around $ 40 - $ 50 on eBay a few years ago, and when people saw what they were selling for, a whole bunch (like a dozen or so) surfaced in the market place over the course of a couple months. Eventually, everyone who had the "fever" got theirs, and because I was patient, I wound up paying about $20 for an unbuilt kit. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3822	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?

I would consider ANY Flyer HO to be "Vintage".   As to the material for loco frames--a cast frame requires that molds be made to cast the frame parts. This has to be amortized over the expected number to be made and sold.  A frame can be milled and fabricated in small quantities in brass--this allowed Bowser to expand the line with a lot of specialty chassis kits at reasonable prices. gj     ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 6:02 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Cast to Brass? OK guys. Since I by choice and overall uninformed ignorance am actually here to learn a question on cast vs. brass other than the period swing. Which is a better metal for undercarriage\ frame use? Which is better for general use? How do you attach brass detailing to cast boilers or shells when you can't, as I've been told, solder the cast? Epoxy, JB Weld, etc?  Also, I've noticed no input on my cast American Flyer question. Is cast American Flyer equipment (I have 3 incomplete tank cars) considered vintage? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3823	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?

As to detailing die cast locos--Mountain Model Imports, division of Precision Scale Or., has refined it--apparently either CA or Epoxy adhesives--leave a stud on the part to mount in a hole.  MMI has introduced a line of On3/On30, followed by HOn3, locos with the major parts die cast and brass details glued on. Price of an On3 Mikado has been cut from over $2000 for a brass loco to around $500 for the cast ones--and they are painted ready to run.  ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 6:02 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Cast to Brass? OK guys. Since I by choice and overall uninformed ignorance am actually here to learn a question on cast vs. brass other than the period swing. Which is a better metal for undercarriage\ frame use? Which is better for general use? How do you attach brass detailing to cast boilers or shells when you can't, as I've been told, solder the cast? Epoxy, JB Weld, etc?  Also, I've noticed no input on my cast American Flyer question. Is cast American Flyer equipment (I have 3 incomplete tank cars) considered vintage? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3824	From: erieberk	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

Don, Nice find and EXCELLENT price now a days for a mint in box Thomas tank car kit. Sometimes it pays to be patient and wait it out it you can stand the pressure of the possibility you may be missing out on an opportunity to get something you really needed. I'm lucky to have obtained all 10 (roadnames) kits of the Thomas Industries tank cars, including all the different variations of those ones that were offered. I think I paid around $15 each and that was around 25 years ago, so you did real well. I've seen posts here where the member indicated he had or was just about to obtain the last one he needed of these, but I doubt he (or very many others) knew there were variations made of several of these models, and I don't mean just slight differences in color shades due to different runs, but complete color scheme differences which are extremely rare, not that the Thomas cars aren't comparatively rare anyway. I remember that one roadname offered in a variation of color scheme was Columbia-Southern and I believe another was DX Sunray Corp. but would have to dig them out of my collection to check them all out if there's any interest (that could take a little doing - to find them in the collection). Regards, Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 7:14 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Thomas Tank Cars: Was -- HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did > anyone else see the listing? > > > > > On the subject of a Globe "metal wine car," to the best of my > > knowledge and the knowledge of the rest of my friends in the group of > > long-time hobbyist who helped Dallas Mallerich with his "Greenberg's > > Guide to Athearn Trains" book (We covered Globe in this book), Globe > > never produced a metal wine car. I'm not saying it was not made - - > > perhaps it was a prototype model designed to pattern a production run > > after, which never came about. Are you sure you're not thinking of the > > Roma Wine metal tank car produced by Thomas Industries? I'd be curious > > to know the roadname. Ray W. > > There's a Thomas car in my photo album "zdon Dellmann's Stuff, misc." on > the group home page. > > An example of what we were talking about earlier in this thread, these were > going for around $ 40 - $ 50 on eBay a few years ago, and when people saw > what they were selling for, a whole bunch (like a dozen or so) surfaced in > the market place over the course of a couple months. Eventually, everyone > who had the "fever" got theirs, and because I was patient, I wound up paying > about $20 for an unbuilt kit. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3825	From: Garry Spear	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

I have a Columbia Southern in Red and Black, what other Thomas color variations are there? Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3826	From: donvdh	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Rarest Lionel Switcher?

$5612.00 - Reserve not met ? Guy has got to be an ex-NBC exec trying to swell his 401 or something? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3827	From: donvdh	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Cast American Flyer Tank car parts, cast unk maker hopper

3 HO American Flyer cast tank car shells and undercarriages only - all end caps ok, 1 missing manhole cover, no handrails, trucks, couplers, etc. - for parts only and 1 cast short hopper shell and undercarriage only - unknown maker. Anybody want them? Pay the shipping, they're yours. They're bound for the trash otherwise. e-mail donvdh@...  . This isn't the place for arranging transfer of ownership, right? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3828	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer Tank car parts, cast unk maker hopper

Check your e-mail for the hopper Dave > 3 HO American Flyer cast tank car shells and undercarriages only - all end caps ok, 1 missing manhole cover, no handrails, trucks, couplers, etc. - for parts only and 1 cast short hopper shell and undercarriage only - unknown maker. Anybody want them? Pay the shipping, they're yours. They're bound for the trash otherwise. e-mail donvdh@... . This isn't the place for arranging transfer of ownership, right? Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3829	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer Tank car parts, cast unk maker hopper

Got it, replied......4 times. Ain't tekno-ledgie gret? > > Check your e-mail for the hopper > Dave > > > > 3 HO American Flyer cast tank car shells and undercarriages only - > all end caps ok, 1 missing manhole cover, no handrails, trucks, > couplers, etc. - for parts only and 1 cast short hopper shell and > undercarriage only - unknown maker. Anybody want them? Pay the > shipping, they're yours. They're bound for the trash otherwise. e- mail > donvdh@ . This isn't the place for arranging transfer of > ownership, right? Don V. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3830	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Virginian Rectifyer

Don RIley wrote: >I resently got a VGN rectifyer! It runs like a dream. It is rolling on >a Glob motor. Frame looks to be the same kinda used for GP7s. The >Athearn guide claims it to be made in 58. Those neat engines were not >built very long! > >Anyone else have one with a Globe drive? > > I have got a orphan shell and have put it on a rubber band drive from a damaged NP GP7 which for some reason had ALCO trucks ... looks better to me than with Blombergs. > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3831	From: erieberk	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

Garry, The Red & Black Columbia Southern is the most common paint scheme for this Thomas tank car, not that any are common. I believe the other variation of this roadname might be two-tone green, but I'll have to check on that first. As I wrote Don, "it may take some doing," I'll have to dig into the collection stored in the attic to find them. This may take a few days as I have numerous large cartons with literally thousands of vintage kits of all makes. While each manufacturer has been grouped together in these cartons, unfortunatelly, I never labeled the cartons as to their contents. As I said I'd get this info dug out if there was interest, that's not a problem. It may take a little time, but I like going through the old stuff. Let me know if there's any other info you might need on any other obscure manufacturers while I'm at it. This will give me an excuse to switch out some of the built up stuff for the layout at the same time. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...> wrote: > > I have a Columbia Southern in Red and Black, what other Thomas color > variations are there? > > Garry Spear >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3832	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Virginian Rectifyer

How badly damaged? I have a GN that has broken end steps. Is the shell up for grabs for parts? I have this shell on a 1957 dual-geared Geep. Thanks. Dave > Don RIley wrote: > > >I resently got a VGN rectifyer! It runs like a dream. It is rolling on > >a Glob motor. Frame looks to be the same kinda used for GP7s. The > >Athearn guide claims it to be made in 58. Those neat engines were not > >built very long! > > > >Anyone else have one with a Globe drive? > > > > > I have got a orphan shell and have put it on a rubber band drive from a > damaged NP GP7 which for some reason had ALCO trucks ... looks better > to me than with Blombergs. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3833	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Old equipment

Gentlemen: I have a lead-boiler Varney 2-8-0 and 2-8-2, as well as a brass-boiler Varney 2-8-2, Athern metal box cars, Megow hoppers, an A-C kit flat car, and Athern Metal PFE Reefers. I trust this qualifies me as one of the bunch. I also use Devore couplers on most of my 40's and 50's cars, and Central Valley trucks, (as long as they are the ones made by George Hook). I remember when Troxel Brothers had a shop on Adams in Los Angeles, and  spent most Saturdays in their shop after it moved to Western Ave. I fondly recall the 1950's as the era when a scratch builder could get all the parts needed for anything from Kemtron, and later CalScale.      Scratch-Building is no longer a major focus in the hobby, to my regret.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3834	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment

And, any time one of us oldepharts brings up scratchbuilding, kit building, whatever, the howls of protest from the "instant gratification" folks begin, and surprisingly, some are from old- timers who know better! If we can't get the new folks to "try", there isn't much long-term hope, especially if they are satisfied with plastic stuff from PRC that looks good but ceases to function and A) no parts, and B) you can't make the parts. Dave > > Gentlemen: I have a lead-boiler Varney 2-8-0 and 2-8-2, as well as a brass-boiler Varney 2-8-2, Athern metal box cars, Megow hoppers, an A-C kit flat car, and Athern Metal PFE Reefers. I trust this qualifies me as one of the bunch. I also use Devore couplers on most of my 40's and 50's cars, and Central Valley trucks, (as long as they are the ones made by George Hook). I remember when Troxel Brothers had a shop on Adams in Los Angeles, and spent most Saturdays in their shop after it moved to Western Ave. I fondly recall the 1950's as the era when a scratch builder could get all the parts needed for anything from Kemtron, and later CalScale. > Scratch-Building is no longer a major focus in the hobby, to my regret. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3835	From: Al Wallace	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > As to detailing die cast locos--Mountain Model Imports, division of Precision Scale Or., has refined it--apparently either CA or Epoxy adhesives--leave a stud on the part to mount in a hole. MMI has introduced a line of On3/On30, followed by HOn3, locos with the major parts die cast and brass details glued on. Price of an On3 Mikado has been cut from over $2000 for a brass loco to around $500 for the cast ones--and they are painted ready to run. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: donvdh > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 6:02 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Cast to Brass? > > > > OK guys. Since I by choice and overall uninformed ignorance am actually here to learn a question on cast vs. brass other than the period swing. Which is a better metal for undercarriage\frame use? Which is better for general use? How do you attach brass detailing to cast boilers or shells when you can't, as I've been told, solder the cast? Epoxy, JB Weld, etc? Also, I've noticed no input on my cast American Flyer question. Is cast American Flyer equipment (I have 3 incomplete tank cars) considered vintage? Don V. > MAy I suggest using a soldering flux called "Sal-Met"? If you can find it, you can tin Zamac and solder brass to it. (I have personally soldered Aluminum to Zamac using this flux; this is something usual fluxes cannot do). It might be found in electronic pat supply stores. Thinned, it requires a very little to tin brass. I have a tube I bought over 40 years ago, and I have a lot left.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3836	From: Garry Spear	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

The most common color for a Thomas Columbia Southern in the Philadelphia, PA area is blue and maroon.  I have owned built rebuilt a number of these cars,  I own one of the two (I know there are more) black and red Columbia Southern cars that I have ever seen.  My black and red car needs lots of work, so I'm looking for a nice RTR black and red; ifone is available. Garry Spear On 6/5/07, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: Garry, The Red & Black Columbia Southern is the most common paint scheme for this Thomas tank car, not that any are common. I believe the other variation of this roadname might be two-tone green, but I'll have to check on that first. As I wrote Don, "it may take some doing," I'll have to dig into the collection stored in the attic to find them. This may take a few days as I have numerous large cartons with literally thousands of vintage kits of all makes. While each manufacturer has been grouped together in these cartons, unfortunatelly, I never labeled the cartons as to their contents. As I said I'd get this info dug out if there was interest, that's not a problem. It may take a little time, but I like going through the old stuff. Let me know if there's any other info you might need on any other obscure manufacturers while I'm at it. This will give me an excuse to switch out some of the built up stuff for the layout at the same time. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...> wrote: > > I have a Columbia Southern in Red and Black, what other Thomas color > variations are there? > > Garry Spear >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3837	From: erieberk	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment

From the looks of it, you're as well hooked on this stuff as any of the rest of us, so yes you'll fit right in. I gather from the tone of yor question that you might be new here (?). If so, let me welcome you to the "bunch." I also enjoyed the Devore couplers, but without a continued supply I wouldn't attempt using them on my rolling stock unless I wasn't about to add any more cars to the layout; I'd have to say you're brave in that aspect. You have some fine oldies there with that selection and some you seldom see anymore. As for my opinion of the increasing fading out of scratch building in favor of shake-the-box or pre-built stuff, these hobbyists don't know what they're missing. What do they gain with instant gratification when that gets so boring so fast. Much of the enjoyment as part of the hobby can come from scratch building. I happen to enjoy super- detailing of engines as part of the hobby, but the newer hobbyists want no part of that; their only interest is in throwing them on the layout and operating them ASAP. Getting back to scratch building, I still remember an article I read back in the early ' 50's, titled something like "Carter's Little River Mills," a take off on the then-popular over the counter medicine Carter's Little Liver Pills. It was an in-depth scratch building article on a brick sided mill for the H0 layout and was well done and very informative. I don't remember where I read it though; it may have been in an early MR issue or it may have been in a hobby booklet something like what Linn Wescott had come out with. Really peaked my interest in attempting it, but I never got around to it -- wish I knew where I saw it. Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "A.W. Wallace" <awallace4056@...> wrote: > > Gentlemen: I have a lead-boiler Varney 2-8-0 and 2-8-2, as well as a brass-boiler Varney 2-8-2, Athern metal box cars, Megow hoppers, an A-C kit flat car, and Athern Metal PFE Reefers. I trust this qualifies me as one of the bunch. I also use Devore couplers on most of my 40's and 50's cars, and Central Valley trucks, (as long as they are the ones made by George Hook). I remember when Troxel Brothers had a shop on Adams in Los Angeles, and spent most Saturdays in their shop after it moved to Western Ave. I fondly recall the 1950's as the era when a scratch builder could get all the parts needed for anything from Kemtron, and later CalScale. > Scratch-Building is no longer a major focus in the hobby, to my regret. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3838	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment

Welcome to the group, yes you surely fit in, I hope you'll enjoy it here. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: A.W. Wallace To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 12:16 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Old equipment Gentlemen: I have a lead-boiler Varney 2-8-0 and 2-8-2, as well as a brass-boiler Varney 2-8-2, Athern metal box cars, Megow hoppers, an A-C kit flat car, and Athern Metal PFE Reefers. I trust this qualifies me as one of the bunch. I also use Devore couplers on most of my 40's and 50's cars, and Central Valley trucks, (as long as they are the ones made by George Hook). I remember when Troxel Brothers had a shop on Adams in Los Angeles, and spent most Saturdays in their shop after it moved to Western Ave. I fondly recall the 1950's as the era when a scratch builder could get all the parts needed for anything from Kemtron, and later CalScale. Scratch-Building is no longer a major focus in the hobby, to my regret.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3839	From: cnj999	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Getting back to scratch building, I still remember an article I read > back in the early ' 50's, titled something like "Carter's Little River > Mills," a take off on the then-popular over the counter medicine > Carter's Little Liver Pills. It was an in-depth scratch building > article on a brick sided mill for the H0 layout and was well done and > very informative. I don't remember where I read it though; it may have > been in an early MR issue or it may have been in a hobby booklet > something like what Linn Wescott had come out with. Really peaked my > interest in attempting it, but I never got around to it -- wish I knew > where I saw it. Ray W. > Ray - Carters Little River Mills, Railroad Model Craftsman, December 1952, page 16, author Frank Ellison. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3840	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Athearn Hustler

Anybody have a belt-routing diagram for a "late" Hustler? These have the idler roller. I know the belt has to go on each side or it's like brakes on. Also, the big drum and small shaft on the end. I am so used to the "older" style, does the belt ride on the small pin or the big drum? hoseeker has parts breakdowns, but I'd rather get this right and not have to muck around with it. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3841	From: Dale Smith	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see

Sorry to be a little late in responding to this thread, but I have Gary Klein's book on Gilbert HO and in it he lists this tank car as an uncataloged item made in 1959, hence its rarity.  While Klein doesn't normally give values in the book, he illustrated this car with a picture of one that "sold on Ebay in 2000 for $3000." I guess that means this one doesn't set a record.  By the way, the car in Klein's picture also appears to have sprung trucks so maybe they are original, but no Kadees.  Maybe that is why this one only went for $2555.  Interesting, but really crazy.  What can you do with a $2500 tank car?  Takes all the fun out of it.   Dale Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3842	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler

Just so I am clear. The new Hustlers are almost totally different than the old ones I am used to. Frames, drivers, motors (and mount) plus idler rollers and brackets. MAYBE the shell, couplers are the same. I see the belt fits on the small pin on the end of the motor shaft hub, but, to keep the belt in place, does the belt simply go around the driver drum, straight past the idler pulley, and then to the motor shaft, or does the belt cross under the idler pulley? Or, does the belt go around the driver drum, then both verticals go to the ends of the vehicle and up? This would mean the belt portions are going in opposite directions while contacting the idler roller. I'll just wait until I get some belts and try it, I guess. Early: http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionAthearn/athearnhustler1964.jpg Late: http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionAthearn/Assembly%20Explosion% 20Athearn%20%20Hustler%201991.jpg Dave > > Anybody have a belt-routing diagram for a "late" Hustler? > These have the idler roller. > I know the belt has to go on each side or it's like brakes on. > Also, the big drum and small shaft on the end. > I am so used to the "older" style, does the belt ride on the small pin > or the big drum? > > hoseeker has parts breakdowns, but I'd rather get this right and not > have to muck around with it. > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3843	From: Wobbly913	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler

Dave   Looking at a late model brand new Hustler; the belt goes over the small diameter pin then down to the "front" of the axle drum around the drum and back up to the front of the idler and on up to the pin. Only the back side of the rubber band touches the idler, the front is in the clear.   I hope tha makes sense.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Anybody have a belt-routing diagram for a "late" Hustler? These have the idler roller. I know the belt has to go on each side or it's like brakes on. Also, the big drum and small shaft on the end. I am so used to the "older" style, does the belt ride on the small pin or the big drum? hoseeker has parts breakdowns, but I'd rather get this right and not have to muck around with it. Thanks. Dave Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3844	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler

Perfect! This unit had no belts (rotted off), and since I have never seen an idler pulley unit (but can rebuild Hi-F units blindfolded) I just wanted to get it right first time. Thanks. Dave > Dave > > Looking at a late model brand new Hustler; the belt goes over the small diameter pin then down to the "front" of the axle drum around the drum and back up to the front of the idler and on up to the pin. Only the back side of the rubber band touches the idler, the front is in the clear. > > I hope tha makes sense. > > Wobbly913 > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Anybody have a belt-routing diagram for a "late" Hustler? > These have the idler roller. > I know the belt has to go on each side or it's like brakes on. > Also, the big drum and small shaft on the end. > I am so used to the "older" style, does the belt ride on the small pin > or the big drum? > > hoseeker has parts breakdowns, but I'd rather get this right and not > have to muck around with it. > Thanks. > Dave > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3845	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment

Wow, terrific!!!  I don't know why, but I would never have thought to look in RMC for it.  I'll check that out as soon as I can dig it out.  I know I have the issue as I have most all years complete, as well as MR (going back into the '30's).  Many thanks, you're a lifesaver.  Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3846	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler

Interesting communication with Athearn. I asked if they had assembly diagrams. This is the response: The hustler is no longer available and all parts and paperwork for it are gone. Sorry!! Note the word "parts" and "gone". This is the response: Just thought maybe, since you still currently list parts for it: 29900 HUSTLER BODY 29901 HUSTLER MOTOR CONN CLIP 29905 HUSTLER IDLER PULLEY 29907 HUSTLER IDLER PULLEY BRKT 29912 HUSTLER MOTOR SHAFT PULLEY 29913 HUSTLER UNDERFRAME LEFT 29914 HUSTLER UNDERFRAME RIGHT 29915 HUSTLER INSULATOR 29917 HUSTLER COUPLER COVER 84030 MOTOR, 1/2 ARMATURE(SWITCHERS & HUSTLER) 90101 DRIVE BELTS (RUBBER BAND) 90506 WHEEL ASSY, 42 HI F (HUSTLER) Plus couplers, horns and screws. There is enough listed to make one! About $45 and you'd have one, plus spare parts! Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3847	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler

Even more interesting response: "No, the list is an old list. We need to update it. Sorry these parts are no longer available." So, if the manufacturer lists parts on the manufacturer's website, and we think they are available, and they are not......... > > Interesting communication with Athearn. > I asked if they had assembly diagrams. This is the response: > > The hustler is no longer available and all parts and paperwork for > it are gone. Sorry!! > > Note the word "parts" and "gone". > > This is the response: > > Just thought maybe, since you still currently list parts for it: > 29900 HUSTLER BODY > > 29901 HUSTLER MOTOR CONN CLIP > > 29905 HUSTLER IDLER PULLEY > > 29907 HUSTLER IDLER PULLEY BRKT > > 29912 HUSTLER MOTOR SHAFT PULLEY > > 29913 HUSTLER UNDERFRAME LEFT > > 29914 HUSTLER UNDERFRAME RIGHT > > 29915 HUSTLER INSULATOR > > 29917 HUSTLER COUPLER COVER > > 84030 MOTOR, 1/2 ARMATURE(SWITCHERS & HUSTLER) > > 90101 DRIVE BELTS (RUBBER BAND) > > 90506 WHEEL ASSY, 42 HI F (HUSTLER) > > Plus couplers, horns and screws. > There is enough listed to make one! > About $45 and you'd have one, plus spare parts! > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3848	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler

Dave , This is Corp. America at it's "finest"[?] . Customer service [?] takes on a whole different meaning . Sad very sad . HH --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Even more interesting response: > > "No, the list is an old list. We need to update it. Sorry these > parts are no longer available." > > So, if the manufacturer lists parts on the manufacturer's website, > and we think they are available, and they are not......... > > > > > > > > Interesting communication with Athearn. > > I asked if they had assembly diagrams. This is the response: > > > > The hustler is no longer available and all parts and paperwork for > > it are gone. Sorry!! > > > > Note the word "parts" and "gone". > > > > This is the response: > > > > Just thought maybe, since you still currently list parts for it: > > 29900 HUSTLER BODY > > > > 29901 HUSTLER MOTOR CONN CLIP > > > > 29905 HUSTLER IDLER PULLEY > > > > 29907 HUSTLER IDLER PULLEY BRKT > > > > 29912 HUSTLER MOTOR SHAFT PULLEY > > > > 29913 HUSTLER UNDERFRAME LEFT > > > > 29914 HUSTLER UNDERFRAME RIGHT > > > > 29915 HUSTLER INSULATOR > > > > 29917 HUSTLER COUPLER COVER > > > > 84030 MOTOR, 1/2 ARMATURE(SWITCHERS & HUSTLER) > > > > 90101 DRIVE BELTS (RUBBER BAND) > > > > 90506 WHEEL ASSY, 42 HI F (HUSTLER) > > > > Plus couplers, horns and screws. > > There is enough listed to make one! > > About $45 and you'd have one, plus spare parts! > > > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3849	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Virginian Rectifyer

curmudgeon wrote: >How badly damaged? >I have a GN that has broken end steps. >Is the shell up for grabs for parts? >I have this shell on a 1957 dual-geared Geep. >Thanks. > >Dave > > > Dave, dug it out and checked- found that I had it already repaired before taking it off the drive, and have fitted handrails ( it had none when I got it and maybe never had) . Seems the most significant damage was a small piece of plastic where it snaps on the cast pins of the side of the frame. Its urely to good to butcher now! Problem is that I live in Vienna, Austria - wonder if it makes sense to send it back to the USA? Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3850	From: donvdh	Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car

Attachments : Just to add to the Thomas Tank Car discussion - silver \with\red & black lettering - missing 2 of the 6 domes Don V.  not mine by the way eBay item number 130122411075 Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car - Complete and intact with the exception of the two domes on top the tank.  $4.99 4 days 19 hours - 5 day listing

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3851	From: erieberk	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car

Except for the 2 missing domes, it looks to be in fine shape with decent paint and lettering. Well worth it if it can be bought near the starting price, for someone who needs this one. The missing domes might be hard to replace, especially since they're the smaller ones not found on most of the Thomas tank cars. They could probably be scratchbuilt from sections of copper or brass tubing of similar diameter, although you wouldn't have the small spec. lettering for them. I would disassemble the car to re-space the 4 original domes -- one at each end and two in the middle, using the scratchbuilt ones in between -- one in from each end; that would balance it out. Even the frame looks good on this car, so its worth looking into. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > BlankJust to add to the Thomas Tank Car discussion - silver \with\red & black lettering - missing 2 of the 6 domes Don V. not mine by the way > eBay item number 130122411075 Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car - Complete and intact with the exception of the two domes on top the tank. $4.99 > 4 days 19 hours - 5 day listing >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3852	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Mystery drive

Attachments : Can anyone identify this drive? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190116650933 Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell like it's made for it. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3853	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

Standard Varney non-deluxe drive. Deluxe would have had spring belt drive on multiple-sheave pulleys. The weight over the lead truck leads me to think this is a later plastic unit, with a driveshaft below the floor. Last couple I had through here were all plastic trucks (snap apart once or twice) not metal, screw-together and bushed. Looks like single-horn in the center plastic shell. Worth less than the postage. He doesn't say die-cast that I saw. Dave > > Can anyone identify this drive? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190116650933 > > Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell like it's > made for it. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3854	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

Ooops. I just went back and saw winning bidder. Sorry. > > Can anyone identify this drive? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190116650933 > > Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell like it's > made for it. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3855	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

Unfortunately the drive doesn't show--- ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 4:34 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery drive Can anyone identify this drive? http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=19011665093 3 Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell like it's made for it. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3856	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

No offense. It's just that the drive was NOT made in the USA, and the tabs on the frame DON'T fit the slots in the Varney body. All the varney 8 wheel drives I've seen were open between the trucks so you could see the drive shaft. Also, the headlight holder, while the shell (which is plastic) is not drilled out for a light (at least it wasn't until about an hour ago). That's what makes it strange to me. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive > Ooops. > I just went back and saw winning bidder. > Sorry. > >> >> Can anyone identify this drive? >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190116650933 >> >> Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell > like it's >> made for it. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3857	From: rob wiggins	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

looks like an lindsay Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Can anyone identify this drive? http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=19011665093 3 Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell like it's made for it. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3858	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

For those who don't get daily emails, I put the four pictures in the "Temporary" photo album on the list home page.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery drive Unfortunately the drive doesn't show--- ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 4:34 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery drive Can anyone identify this drive? http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=19011665093 3 Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell like it's made for it. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3859	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

In the one photo that came up for me it looked like the chassis was in backwards--could see the "notch" between the water and fuel tanks--toward the rear of the unit--   This gives me the chance to note that I am still looking for the matching plastic B unit shell--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive No offense. It's just that the drive was NOT made in the USA, and the tabs on the frame DON'T fit the slots in the Varney body. All the varney 8 wheel drives I've seen were open between the trucks so you could see the drive shaft. Also, the headlight holder, while the shell (which is plastic) is not drilled out for a light (at least it wasn't until about an hour ago). That's what makes it strange to me. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive > Ooops. > I just went back and saw winning bidder. > Sorry. > >> >> Can anyone identify this drive? >> >> http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=19011665093 3 >> >> Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell > like it's >> made for it. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@ ... >> http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3860	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

Definitely NOT Lindsay.  They had a distinctive type of motor--down between the axles.  I got the other photos this time  I can see the taper of the front of the frame, meaning my earlier comment is void--the "notch" between tanks is at the wrong end--is it possible that there were coupler mounts on sheet metal brackets on the trucks?    Flyer also sold F-3's that were made by Varney, or at least in the Varney tooling.  Plastic bodies.  It would be interesting if you can "raise" the scratched out lettering--find out where this was made. During the time frame that the Globe F-7 was being made, and the late Varney plastic F-3's were around, there were a bunch of drives being made to fit them--both in US and overseas.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: rob wiggins To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery drive looks like an lindsay Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: Can anyone identify this drive? http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=19011665093 3 Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell like it's made for it. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3861	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

That particular shell, a Varney plastic one molded in that light gray color is very common to the Dummy unit offered in the General Mills sets of around 1963. Eat more cereal, save more boxtops, and you could mail away for a drive unit. I think it was sold separately. The unit came molded in gray, but came with decals for an early NYC FT unit, which was actually black.  I have the whole set, in the original boxes. The drive is Penn Line, which is why it fits the Athearn drive so well. The Penn Line shell, with the shortened ladders, is still sold by Life Like in their Toy Train Sets. It's a dead ringer for the Athearn/Globe shells but for a few details. Keep in mind that originally the Penn Lines came with shells produced by Athearn. This is the drive that followed the heavy original Penn Line drive with the spring drive. This drive also shows up in altered forms in late Varney pieces. Life Like sold them under the Varney name in the late sixties using the Penn Line shells, with the name Penn Line scratched out of the mold. I have, I think, three different versions of this drive... and I will try to post some pictures later, along with pictures of the General Mills set... for anyone that is interested. Stephen -----Original Message----- From: Glenn476 <glenn476@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 5:36 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive In the one photo that came up for me it looked like the chassis was in backwards--could see the "notch" between the water and fuel tanks--toward the rear of the unit--   This gives me the chance to note that I am still looking for the matching plastic B unit shell--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive No offense. It's just that the drive was NOT made in the USA, and the tabs on the frame DON'T fit the slots in the Varney body. All the varney 8 wheel drives I've seen were open between the trucks so you could see the drive shaft. Also, the headlight holder, while the shell (which is plastic) is not drilled out for a light (at least it wasn't until about an hour ago). That's what makes it strange to me. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive > Ooops. > I just went back and saw winning bidder. > Sorry. > >> >> Can anyone identify this drive? >> >> http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=19011665093 3 >> >> Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell > like it's >> made for it. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@ ... >> http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3862	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive

Stephen, You are right, I just tried to pop the shell of off one of my Penn Line PRR dummy A units and the frame crumbled some.  I will post photos by the end of the weekend.  I need to take my time separating the frame from the shell at this point.  This is a body with the short ladders.  At some point in the process, Penn Line had a thicker plate with two tabs on each end that one would slip under the ladders instead of that spring steel arrangement.  I will post photos of that also.  And if wanted photos of the earlier frame with the spring drive, that was my first loco.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of MRLENGAL2U@... Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 8:58 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive   That particular shell, a Varney plastic one molded in that light gray color is very common to the Dummy unit offered in the General Mills sets of around 1963. Eat more cereal, save more boxtops, and you could mail away for a drive unit. I think it was sold separately. The unit came molded in gray, but came with decals for an early NYC FT unit, which was actually black.  I have the whole set, in the original boxes. The drive is Penn Line, which is why it fits the Athearn drive so well. The Penn Line shell, with the shortened ladders, is still sold by Life Like in their Toy Train Sets. It's a dead ringer for the Athearn/Globe shells but for a few details. Keep in mind that originally the Penn Lines came with shells produced by Athearn. This is the drive that followed the heavy original Penn Line drive with the spring drive. This drive also shows up in altered forms in late Varney pieces. Life Like sold them under the Varney name in the late sixties using the Penn Line shells, with the name Penn Line scratched out of the mold. I have, I think, three different versions of this drive... and I will try to post some pictures later, along with pictures of the General Mills set... for anyone that is interested. Stephen     -----Original Message----- From: Glenn476 <glenn476@tco. net> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 5:36 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive In the one photo that came up for me it looked like the chassis was in backwards--could see the "notch" between the water and fuel tanks--toward the rear of the unit--   This gives me the chance to note that I am still looking for the matching plastic B unit shell--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive   No offense. It's just that the drive was NOT made in the USA , and the tabs on the frame DON'T fit the slots in the Varney body. All the varney 8 wheel drives I've seen were open between the trucks so you could see the drive shaft. Also, the headlight holder, while the shell (which is plastic) is not drilled out for a light (at least it wasn't until about an hour ago). That's what makes it strange to me. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive > Ooops. > I just went back and saw winning bidder. > Sorry. > >> >> Can anyone identify this drive? >> >> http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=19011665093 3 >> >> Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell > like it's >> made for it. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@ ... >> http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3863	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

The rear truck has a coupler pocket with a raised center boss cast into the top of the truck.  The front has no mount, does NOT appear that one was cut off, too clean, looks like there was never one there.   Since I started this thread, I've done some work on it, the truck mounting is also interesting, the brass "tabs" that stick up on either side of the trucks are actually one piece passing between the truck and the motor (or the weight on the front truck), and are notched to snap into the frame between small tabs cast into the frame.   There's no way the scratch out lettering could be recovered, I tried.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery drive Definitely NOT Lindsay.  They had a distinctive type of motor--down between the axles.  I got the other photos this time  I can see the taper of the front of the frame, meaning my earlier comment is void--the "notch" between tanks is at the wrong end--is it possible that there were coupler mounts on sheet metal brackets on the trucks?    Flyer also sold F-3's that were made by Varney, or at least in the Varney tooling.  Plastic bodies.  It would be interesting if you can "raise" the scratched out lettering--find out where this was made. During the time frame that the Globe F-7 was being made, and the late Varney plastic F-3's were around, there were a bunch of drives being made to fit them--both in US and overseas.  gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3864	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

I had one of the  Penn Line "spring" drives, 4 wheel drive, motor mounted to the frame, with the spring as a flecible coupling to the truck shaft, got it new ca. 1960.  About a year later, I got one of the new "8 wheel drive". it HAD NO FRAME.  The trucks had a sbrass sheet that snapped into the steps on the shell.  First time you pulled a load the steps sheared off and it was junk.   Don't have either any more :-(   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive That particular shell, a Varney plastic one molded in that light gray color is very common to the Dummy unit offered in the General Mills sets of around 1963. Eat more cereal, save more boxtops, and you could mail away for a drive unit. I think it was sold separately. The unit came molded in gray, but came with decals for an early NYC FT unit, which was actually black.  I have the whole set, in the original boxes. The drive is Penn Line, which is why it fits the Athearn drive so well. The Penn Line shell, with the shortened ladders, is still sold by Life Like in their Toy Train Sets. It's a dead ringer for the Athearn/Globe shells but for a few details. Keep in mind that originally the Penn Lines came with shells produced by Athearn. This is the drive that followed the heavy original Penn Line drive with the spring drive. This drive also shows up in altered forms in late Varney pieces. Life Like sold them under the Varney name in the late sixties using the Penn Line shells, with the name Penn Line scratched out of the mold. I have, I think, three different versions of this drive... and I will try to post some pictures later, along with pictures of the General Mills set... for anyone that is interested. Stephen -----Original Message----- From: Glenn476 <glenn476@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 5:36 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive In the one photo that came up for me it looked like the chassis was in backwards--could see the "notch" between the water and fuel tanks--toward the rear of the unit--   This gives me the chance to note that I am still looking for the matching plastic B unit shell--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive No offense. It's just that the drive was NOT made in the USA, and the tabs on the frame DON'T fit the slots in the Varney body. All the varney 8 wheel drives I've seen were open between the trucks so you could see the drive shaft. Also, the headlight holder, while the shell (which is plastic) is not drilled out for a light (at least it wasn't until about an hour ago). That's what makes it strange to me. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive > Ooops. > I just went back and saw winning bidder. > Sorry. > >> >> Can anyone identify this drive? >> >> http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=19011665093 3 >> >> Here are some better pictures. It fits an Athearn/Globe shell > like it's >> made for it. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@ ... >> http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3865	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

Just looked again, photo 4, that driveshaft and pocket is Varney design. That driveshaft is the one you sent me to fix this one here. The only puzzlement is the tabs that stick up from the frame at each bolster. Dave > > The rear truck has a coupler pocket with a raised center boss cast into the top of the truck. The front has no mount, does NOT appear that one was cut off, too clean, looks like there was never one there. > > Since I started this thread, I've done some work on it, the truck mounting is also interesting, the brass "tabs" that stick up on either side of the trucks are actually one piece passing between the truck and the motor (or the weight on the front truck), and are notched to snap into the frame between small tabs cast into the frame. > > There's no way the scratch out lettering could be recovered, I tried. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Glenn476 > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:48 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery drive > > > Definitely NOT Lindsay. They had a distinctive type of motor-- down between the axles. I got the other photos this time I can see the taper of the front of the frame, meaning my earlier comment is void--the "notch" between tanks is at the wrong end--is it possible that there were coupler mounts on sheet metal brackets on the trucks? > > Flyer also sold F-3's that were made by Varney, or at least in the Varney tooling. Plastic bodies. It would be interesting if you can "raise" the scratched out lettering--find out where this was made. During the time frame that the Globe F-7 was being made, and the late Varney plastic F-3's were around, there were a bunch of drives being made to fit them--both in US and overseas. gj >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3866	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive

I don't know, Don. The design looks just like the Varney F-3 I had here. Motor gears, frame, even the weight in front and light mount. However: I would be willing to bet it's not for an F-3, rather something like a Geep or FA or switcher. Could be a clone, lots of that went around. I didn't see.....ho is the motor attached? Brass tabs bent over the top on both ends? Dave > The rear truck has a coupler pocket with a raised center boss cast into the top of the truck. The front has no mount, does NOT appear that one was cut off, too clean, looks like there was never one there. > > Since I started this thread, I've done some work on it, the truck mounting is also interesting, the brass "tabs" that stick up on either side of the trucks are actually one piece passing between the truck and the motor (or the weight on the front truck), and are notched to snap into the frame between small tabs cast into the frame. > > There's no way the scratch out lettering could be recovered, I tried. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Glenn476 > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:48 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery drive > > > Definitely NOT Lindsay. They had a distinctive type of motor-- down between the axles. I got the other photos this time I can see the taper of the front of the frame, meaning my earlier comment is void--the "notch" between tanks is at the wrong end--is it possible that there were coupler mounts on sheet metal brackets on the trucks? > > Flyer also sold F-3's that were made by Varney, or at least in the Varney tooling. Plastic bodies. It would be interesting if you can "raise" the scratched out lettering--find out where this was made. During the time frame that the Globe F-7 was being made, and the late Varney plastic F-3's were around, there were a bunch of drives being made to fit them--both in US and overseas. gj >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3867	From: Tom	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car

Yeah, that is my car I am selling and it is a little dirty but should clean up nicely. Paint is good on the frame, vey nice old car. I never realized there were two sizes on the tanks. Tom--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Except for the 2 missing domes, it looks to be in fine shape with > decent paint and lettering. Well worth it if it can be bought near the > starting price, for someone who needs this one. The missing domes > might be hard to replace, especially since they're the smaller ones not > found on most of the Thomas tank cars. They could probably be > scratchbuilt from sections of copper or brass tubing of similar > diameter, although you wouldn't have the small spec. lettering for > them. I would disassemble the car to re-space the 4 original domes -- > one at each end and two in the middle, using the scratchbuilt ones in > between -- one in from each end; that would balance it out. Even the > frame looks good on this car, so its worth looking into. Ray > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@> wrote: > > > > BlankJust to add to the Thomas Tank Car discussion - silver \with\red > & black lettering - missing 2 of the 6 domes Don V. not mine by the way > > eBay item number 130122411075 Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine > Car - Complete and intact with the exception of the two domes on top > the tank. $4.99 > > 4 days 19 hours - 5 day listing > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3868	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Pictures added, Varney Penn Line Life Like

I posted a whole bunch of pictures under Varney, Penn Line, and Life Like. I included the Varney General Mills set, as well. I'm not sure how accurate the time line of these units is... which are actually Varney, or Penn Line, or early Life Likes sold as Varneys. I'm just guessing here. There is one more variation which I might have, but can't find... that is the other one mentioned that has separate fuel tank and truck snap ins, that is actually a Penn Line. You can find an exploded view of it if you Google Short History of Penn Line Trains. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3869	From: donvdh	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Hallmark\Lionel N&W 4-8-4

Hallmark\Lionel N&W 4-8-4 engine and tender display set. Sorry about bringing this up again. I'm about to sell this set and thought I'd ask if anyone might be interested. I'm going to start it at $30.00 plus shipping. I'll sell it to anyone here for $22.50 plus shipping. Please reply to donvdh@... to make arrangements. I will wait until Saturday AM to hear before I list it. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3870	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Pictures added, Varney Penn Line Life Like

Did you see the drives on your Lindsay was it? See the single-drive Geep? I have a 1957 dual-geared Athearn Geep with those drives, factory. Found the drawings on hoseeker. Dave > I posted a whole bunch of pictures under Varney, Penn Line, and Life Like. I included the Varney General Mills set, as well. I'm not sure how accurate the time line of these units is... which are actually Varney, or Penn Line, or early Life Likes sold as Varneys. I'm just guessing here. There is one more variation which I might have, but can't find... that is the other one mentioned that has separate fuel tank and truck snap ins, that is actually a Penn Line. You can find an exploded view of it if you Google Short History of Penn Line Trains. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ ___ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3871	From: dasha469	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark\Lionel N&W 4-8-4

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > Hallmark\Lionel N&W 4-8-4 engine and tender display set. Sorry about bringing this up again. I'm about to sell this set and thought I'd ask if anyone might be interested. I'm going to start it at $30.00 plus shipping. I'll sell it to anyone here for $22.50 plus shipping. Please reply to donvdh@... to make arrangements. I will wait until Saturday AM to hear before I list it. Don V. > Hello Don, I'm interested in the Hallmark Lionel N&W display set. I wrote you on the email address in this message but it would not go thru. Let me know if you still wish to sell it dasha469@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3872	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Re: Pictures added, Varney Penn Line Life Like

BINGO!  The one you show as "Penn Line-Varney" pictured with the B&O F-7 shell is the one I have. (mine's just missing the weight).   Dondon.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY     ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pictures added, Varney Penn Line Life Like I posted a whole bunch of pictures under Varney, Penn Line, and Life Like. I included the Varney General Mills set, as well. I'm not sure how accurate the time line of these units is... which are actually Varney, or Penn Line, or early Life Likes sold as Varneys. I'm just guessing here. There is one more variation which I might have, but can't find... that is the other one mentioned that has separate fuel tank and truck snap ins, that is actually a Penn Line. You can find an exploded view of it if you Google Short History of Penn Line Trains. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3873	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Walthers experts

I have a 2-bay hoper, die-cast, die-cast frame, 2 screws hold frame to one-piece body. It looks just like this: http://hoseeker.net/varneyinstructionscar/Varney1950HopperCarPg2.jpg except that one is plastic body and glue-on ladders. The reason I think Walthers is the frame had that shiny, new dime color that the Walthers lead castings had. Since the body is one piece, that rules out a lot of other makes. Anybody confirm? Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3874	From: donvdh	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set

1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamliner 6-car Passenger Set - Does 27 years, 1 issue only qualify this as vintage or just strange and unusual? Can any of you vintage people (We all know Sean is too young) answer 2 questions for me. 1. Was there a commemorative 6-car Streamline Passenger set issued by Rivarossi for the NMRA 1980 50 Year Anniversary Convention? I know there was a heavyweight \ steam engine and tender set. Never heard of a streamliner set before.- said to be 1950's era cars.  2. If such a set exists was it just passenger cars or was there some sort of matching engine set sold with it? Don V. A side note to Don D. - I am having problems trying to post pictures. Also, every once in a while my provider's filter blocks chat group messages. Can you help me? Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3875	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers experts

Railmaster? Only photos I've seen are vertical brake staffs, this one has horizontal wheel pin....... > > I have a 2-bay hoper, die-cast, die-cast frame, 2 screws hold frame to > one-piece body. > It looks just like this: > http://hoseeker.net/varneyinstructionscar/Varney1950HopperCarPg2.jpg > except that one is plastic body and glue-on ladders. > The reason I think Walthers is the frame had that shiny, new dime > color that the Walthers lead castings had. > > Since the body is one piece, that rules out a lot of other makes. > Anybody confirm? > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3876	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: eBAY Madness???

Attachments : LIONEL HO RAREST PIECE, D-301 NBC DESK SET (C-10) MINT RARE DESK SET PRODUCED FOR TOP NBC EXECUTIVES IN 1959 Item number: 300116103729 Bidder 6 US $9,999.99 Jun-08-07 13:32:18 PDT View Bidder 1 US $6,100.99 Jun-03-07 21:27:39 PDT View Bidder 4 US $5,512.00 Jun-03-07 17:30:49 PDT View Can anyone tell me why the bid would jump from $6,100.99 to $9,999.99? Was there originally a "Reserve" on this auction? Loren _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3877	From: donvdh	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: World's most expensive Lionel switcher, I think.

Loren - there was a reserve, but that's at least borderline insane. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3878	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: World's most expensive Lionel switcher, I think.

Well, I suppose that since it is a handmade item from the Lionel factory, with documentation--it falls into the "rarity" category in which absolute insanity reigns.  ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 12:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] World's most expensive Lionel switcher, I think. Loren - there was a reserve, but that's at least borderline insane. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3879	From: John Plott	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set

Yes there is a set.  A Pacific Style Locomotive.  Runs beautiful.  I can fill in all the blanks later. John P.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3880	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set

>----- Original Message ----- >From: donvdh >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:58 PM >Subject: [vintageHO] 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set >1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamliner 6-car Passenger Set - Does 27 years, 1 >issue only qualify this as vintage or just strange and unusual? >Can any of you vintage people (We all know Sean is too young) answer 2 >questions for me. 1. Was there a commemorative 6-car Streamline Passenger >set issued >by Rivarossi for the NMRA 1980 50 Year Anniversary Convention? >I know there was a heavyweight \ steam engine and tender set. Never heard >of a streamliner >set before.- said to be 1950's era cars. 2. If such a >set exists was it just passenger cars or was there some sort of matching >engine set sold with it? Don V. >A side note to Don D. - I am having problems trying to post pictures. Also, >every once in a while my provider's filter blocks chat group messages. Can >you help >me? Don V FWIW, the 50 year convention was 1985, not 1980. 75 year coming back here to beertown in 2010, maybe some of us will finally meet. As far as the spam filter, I have the same problem and Yahoo is my ISP! I don't know how to fix it, I go to my bulk folder and mark the messages "not spam" which gets them back in my inbox, after awhile it seems to work, then they're back there again. You might ask this question of your ISP. As to the pictures, write me offlist with exactly what you're trying to do and what isn't working and we'll try to figure it out. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3881	From: donvdh	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set

I'm confused (my wife says a perpetual state). Is the steam engine \ heavyweight set also a 50th anniversary commemorative or simply a convention only piece? My engine is numbered 1980 on the cab. My set is a 5-heavyweight car set which is blue and gray. The streamliner set I was told is 2-tone green. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3882	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???

Yes, and the reserve must have been the $9,999.99. The bidder six could still have a bid that is higher than the $9,999.99 as well. Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: LIONEL HO RAREST PIECE, D-301 NBC DESK SET (C-10) MINT RARE DESK SET PRODUCED FOR TOP NBC EXECUTIVES IN 1959 Item number: 300116103729 Bidder 6 US $9,999.99 Jun-08-07 13:32:18 PDT View Bidder 1 US $6,100.99 Jun-03-07 21:27:39 PDT View Bidder 4 US $5,512.00 Jun-03-07 17:30:49 PDT View Can anyone tell me why the bid would jump from $6,100.99 to $9,999.99? Was there originally a "Reserve" on this auction? Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth. msn.com?source= msntaglineliveea rthhm From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: eBAY Madness??? Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 22:26:42 -0700 Received: (qmail 66166 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2007 05:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2007 05:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc1-s15.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.87) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2007 05:26:50 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.224.38]) by bay0-omc1-s15.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:26:46 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:26:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.224.200 by by105fd.bay105.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 09 Jun 2007 05:26:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [71.111.77.171] X-Originating-Email: [saltnpepper69@...] X-Sender: saltnpepper69@... From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: eBAY Madness??? Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 22:26:42 -0700 X-Priority: 1 Importance: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2007 05:26:46.0404 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5B21440:01C7AA56] Return-Path: saltnpepper69@... X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.246.87 LIONEL HO RAREST PIECE, D-301 NBC DESK SET (C-10) MINT RARE DESK SET PRODUCED FOR TOP NBC EXECUTIVES IN 1959 Item number: 300116103729 Bidder 6 US $9,999.99 Jun-08-07 13:32:18 PDT View Bidder 1 US $6,100.99 Jun-03-07 21:27:39 PDT View Bidder 4 US $5,512.00 Jun-03-07 17:30:49 PDT View Can anyone tell me why the bid would jump from $6,100.99 to $9,999.99? Was there originally a "Reserve" on this auction? Loren _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i’m Initiative now. It’s free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_June07 Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3883	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Frame photos

I have added two photos of my Penn Line frame.  It is in a few pieces at this point.  Both the A and B units are dummy units, though the A unit is lighted.  I did not take the B unit out of the box, I do not want to have that frame crack yet.  When I find my F7 with the frame less drive I will post it also. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3884	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???

Group,   I am sorry, but my interest in this is nil. If somebody(ies) has(have) more money than brains, let them slug this out until the cows come home. Even on eBay, I propose there are more interesting items to look at, and if one wishes, to bid upon. To the winner of this egnimatic battle I trust you will not have a sudden attack of "buyer's remorse", wondering what better you could have spent such a large sum of money upon. As for most of us, I doubt we'll lose much sleep over not having lost our minds to possess such a trinket-any more than I lament not owning the Mona Lisa.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Yes, and the reserve must have been the $9,999.99. The bidder six could still have a bid that is higher than the $9,999.99 as well. Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote: LIONEL HO RAREST PIECE, D-301 NBC DESK SET (C-10) MINT RARE DESK SET PRODUCED FOR TOP NBC EXECUTIVES IN 1959 Item number: 300116103729 Bidder 6 US $9,999.99 Jun-08-07 13:32:18 PDT View Bidder 1 US $6,100.99 Jun-03-07 21:27:39 PDT View Bidder 4 US $5,512.00 Jun-03-07 17:30:49 PDT View Can anyone tell me why the bid would jump from $6,100.99 to $9,999.99? Was there originally a "Reserve" on this auction? Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth. msn.com?source= msntaglineliveea rthhm From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: eBAY Madness??? Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 22:26:42 -0700 Received: (qmail 66166 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2007 05:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m41.grp.scd. yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2007 05:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc1-s15. bay0.hotmail. com) (65.54.246.87) by mta14.grp.scd. yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2007 05:26:50 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.224. 38]) by bay0-omc1-s15. bay0.hotmail. com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0. 3790.2668) ; Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:26:46 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:26:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.224.200 by by105fd.bay105. hotmail.msn. com with HTTP; Sat, 09 Jun 2007 05:26:42 GMT X-Originating- IP: [71.111.77.171] X-Originating- Email: [saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com] X-Sender: saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Bcc: Subject: eBAY Madness??? Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 22:26:42 -0700 X-Priority: 1 Importance: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTi me: 09 Jun 2007 05:26:46.0404 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5B21440: 01C7AA56] Return-Path: saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com X-eGroups-Remote- IP: 65.54.246.87 LIONEL HO RAREST PIECE, D-301 NBC DESK SET (C-10) MINT RARE DESK SET PRODUCED FOR TOP NBC EXECUTIVES IN 1959 Item number: 300116103729 Bidder 6 US $9,999.99 Jun-08-07 13:32:18 PDT View Bidder 1 US $6,100.99 Jun-03-07 21:27:39 PDT View Bidder 4 US $5,512.00 Jun-03-07 17:30:49 PDT View Can anyone tell me why the bid would jump from $6,100.99 to $9,999.99? Was there originally a "Reserve" on this auction? Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i’m Initiative now. It’s free. http://im.live. com/messenger/ im/home/? source=TAGHM_ June07 Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3885	From: Mike Christian	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: CN_HO_Collectors Group

Howdy, I hope this message is deemed to be on-topic here. I just started a group called CN_HO_Collectors at Yahoo. We are will cover a lot of the same type stuff that is covered here but it is very specific to the Canadian National family models - including: Canadian National CN/CNR Duluth Winnipeg & Pacific DWP Central Vermont CV/CVR Grand Trunk Railways GTR (New England) Grand Trunk Western GT/GTW These GTW affiliates will also be covered: Detroit & Toledo Shore Line D&TS/D&TSL Detroit Terminal RR DTRR Belt Railway of Chicago BRC Chicago & Western Indiana C&WI We are limiting the coverage of the CN family to mainly pre-1985, so we are not covering the WC, IC, etc. If you would like to join, send an email to: CN_HO_Collectors-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Thanx! Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3886	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???

I am never disapointed to witness the insanity on the web ! HH sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Yes, and the reserve must have been the $9,999.99. The bidder six could still have a bid that is higher than the $9,999.99 as well. Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote: LIONEL HO RAREST PIECE, D-301 NBC DESK SET (C-10) MINT RARE DESK SET PRODUCED FOR TOP NBC EXECUTIVES IN 1959 Item number: 300116103729 Bidder 6 US $9,999.99 Jun-08-07 13:32:18 PDT View Bidder 1 US $6,100.99 Jun-03-07 21:27:39 PDT View Bidder 4 US $5,512.00 Jun-03-07 17:30:49 PDT View Can anyone tell me why the bid would jump from $6,100.99 to $9,999.99? Was there originally a "Reserve" on this auction? Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth. msn.com?source= msntaglineliveea rthhm From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: eBAY Madness??? Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 22:26:42 -0700 Received: (qmail 66166 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2007 05:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m41.grp.scd. yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2007 05:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc1-s15. bay0.hotmail. com) (65.54.246.87) by mta14.grp.scd. yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2007 05:26:50 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.224. 38]) by bay0-omc1-s15. bay0.hotmail. com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0. 3790.2668) ; Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:26:46 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:26:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.224.200 by by105fd.bay105. hotmail.msn. com with HTTP; Sat, 09 Jun 2007 05:26:42 GMT X-Originating- IP: [71.111.77.171] X-Originating- Email: [saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com] X-Sender: saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Bcc: Subject: eBAY Madness??? Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 22:26:42 -0700 X-Priority: 1 Importance: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTi me: 09 Jun 2007 05:26:46.0404 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5B21440: 01C7AA56] Return-Path: saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com X-eGroups-Remote- IP: 65.54.246.87 LIONEL HO RAREST PIECE, D-301 NBC DESK SET (C-10) MINT RARE DESK SET PRODUCED FOR TOP NBC EXECUTIVES IN 1959 Item number: 300116103729 Bidder 6 US $9,999.99 Jun-08-07 13:32:18 PDT View Bidder 1 US $6,100.99 Jun-03-07 21:27:39 PDT View Bidder 4 US $5,512.00 Jun-03-07 17:30:49 PDT View Can anyone tell me why the bid would jump from $6,100.99 to $9,999.99? Was there originally a "Reserve" on this auction? Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i’m Initiative now. It’s free. http://im.live. com/messenger/ im/home/? source=TAGHM_ June07 Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3887	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???

Yes there was, and it was obviosly $ 9999.99 As soon as someone went over it, that's where it'd jump to. Still a little over a day to go, be interesting if anyone goes over. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 12:56 AM Subject: [vintageHO] eBAY Madness??? > LIONEL HO RAREST PIECE, D-301 NBC DESK SET (C-10) MINT > RARE DESK SET PRODUCED FOR TOP NBC EXECUTIVES IN 1959 Item number: > 300116103729 > > Bidder 6 US $9,999.99 Jun-08-07 13:32:18 PDT View > Bidder 1 US $6,100.99 Jun-03-07 21:27:39 PDT View > Bidder 4 US $5,512.00 Jun-03-07 17:30:49 PDT View > > Can anyone tell me why the bid would jump from $6,100.99 to $9,999.99? > Was there originally a "Reserve" on this auction? > > Loren > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN > http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3888	From: donvdh	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Lost e-mail address for picture problem

Don D. - Sleepy last night and inadvertently deleted your e-mail address to try to resolve my posting picture problem. Mine is donvd@... if you would e-mail me I send back what I tried.    General list folks -  It was mentioned the 50th NMRA anniversary was 1985. Do you know if the Rivarossi streamliner set issued for that anniversary convention was issued with an engine. My information says the cars are 50's era streamliners. My 1980 set has a Heavy Pacific which matches it (blue & gray livery). The 1985 set is 2-tone green with gold lettering specifically stating the 50th anniversary of the NMRA. Some one mentioned it also had a Heavy Pacific engine issued with it. In that the streamliner set was described as 50's era , late steam \ early diesel, I wondered if there was both a steam and diesel engine issued for it or which was. I have no clue as to what was issued with it.  Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3889	From: John Plott	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set

I can see where there might be confusion.  The 1980 set is listed in several issues of the NMRA Bulletin in 1980.  This was a special run for NMRA contributors to the Headquarters Building Fund.  The locomotive has 1980 on the cab, on the tender is NMRA and the NMRA Logo centered on the sides of the tender.  On each of the car is the lettering NMRA HEADQUARTERS EXPRESS.  This is listed in the January 1980 issue of the NMRA Bulletin on pg. 5.  COMING SOON!  A VERY SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT ON THE HEADQUARTERS 1980 CAMPAIGN.  On the ready track for all members is a special offer you won't want to miss.  We can't tell you any more about it--except that you'll be might pleased to own one.  The announcement brochure is in the works watch for it!   This was part of the effort to aquire the money for the Headquarters Building Fund.  Chattanooga, Tenn.  I can send you a copy of each article about the unit.  In the June issue there is an explaination of the color scheme, blue for the Union side in the Civil War and gray, for the South.  There is two columns about the choices of names on the cars.   I have not found any pictures or the brochure.  One of the other items was the model kit of the Headquarters Building.   Let me know if you would like to see these articles.  You can contact me off list.  I can give you indivadual photos.    John P.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3890	From: donvdh	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: 1980 NMRA Special Edition Train Set

John - I would very much like to have copies of those articles and reference dates. That does bring up another question. Which is less available, the 1980 set or the 1985 Convention set? I am unable to contact a particular person through vintageho to  due to my provider's built-in filtering program. My e-mail address is donvdh@.... Thanks, Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3891	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set

I seem to recall that train set as being a fundraiser for the Hq bldg in Chattanooga.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:34 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set >----- Original Message ----- >From: donvdh >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:58 PM >Subject: [vintageHO] 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6- Car Passenger Set >1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamliner 6-car Passenger Set - Does 27 years, 1 >issue only qualify this as vintage or just strange and unusual? >Can any of you vintage people (We all know Sean is too young) answer 2 >questions for me. 1. Was there a commemorative 6-car Streamline Passenger >set issued >by Rivarossi for the NMRA 1980 50 Year Anniversary Convention? >I know there was a heavyweight \ steam engine and tender set. Never heard >of a streamliner >set before.- said to be 1950's era cars. 2. If such a >set exists was it just passenger cars or was there some sort of matching >engine set sold with it? Don V. >A side note to Don D. - I am having problems trying to post pictures. Also, >every once in a while my provider's filter blocks chat group messages. Can >you help >me? Don V FWIW, the 50 year convention was 1985, not 1980. 75 year coming back here to beertown in 2010, maybe some of us will finally meet. As far as the spam filter, I have the same problem and Yahoo is my ISP! I don't know how to fix it, I go to my bulk folder and mark the messages "not spam" which gets them back in my inbox, after awhile it seems to work, then they're back there again. You might ask this question of your ISP. As to the pictures, write me offlist with exactly what you're trying to do and what isn't working and we'll try to figure it out. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3892	From: donvdh	Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Totally absurd

I agree with John's assessment of this subject wholeheartedly but had to note this for those like me who just wondered. Bidder #6 - $22,009.09 Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3893	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd

Hey, I have some Tyco Chattanooga Choo-Choos I'd sell him for half that....I'll even put a switch and some track on a board with a cheesy plastic billboard..... > I agree with John's assessment of this subject wholeheartedly but had to note this for those like me who just wondered. Bidder #6 - $22,009.09 Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3894	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd

Has anyone asked the winnig bidder why it was so valuable to him? _________________________________________________________________ Picture this � share your photos and you could win big! http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3895	From: donvdh	Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Totally absurd

Forgot to mention - the winning total was an automatic bid. Actual bid is known only to bidder #6. Bidder's names and eBay IDs were not disclosed. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3896	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Totally absurd

Before I deleted the listing from my watched list, if you go to the listing, not the number of bids list, my set up showed the winning bidders ID showed up. What was the auction number again? Loren >From: "donvdh" <donvdh@...> >Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [vintageHO] Totally absurd >Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 00:04:27 -0600 > >Forgot to mention - the winning total was an automatic bid. Actual bid is >known only to bidder #6. Bidder's names and eBay IDs were not disclosed. >Don V. _________________________________________________________________ Don�t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3897	From: donvdh	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Totally absurd

Attachments : Item number: 300116103729 - Bidder #6 is eBay ID grant1952 - Winning bid - $22,009.09. Total of 19 bids - Winner only bid twice, won on automatic bidding. Actual bid entered not shown, only winning amount. Bidder #9 - one bid entered - $21, 909.09.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3898	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd

wonder what the bid interval was for the automatic bidding? ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:10 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Totally absurd Item number: 300116103729 - Bidder #6 is eBay ID grant1952 - Winning bid - $22,009.09. Total of 19 bids - Winner only bid twice, won on automatic bidding. Actual bid entered not shown, only winning amount. Bidder #9 - one bid entered - $21, 909.09.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3899	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd

Having already read several postings on the amount...I laugh. I never saw the piece, and I doubt I ever will...and I don't care. The new owner can wisk it away to a safe or vault somewhere and can forget about it, perhaps seeking something else obtusely rare. What defines the buyer-this piece? Or the money spent t acquire it? Whatever, I enjoy vintage items that definitely may not be so rare and at an affordable price to me...and I don't need to then hide it where the sun won't shine on it. No, purchaser, that is not a suggestion.   John curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Hey, I have some Tyco Chattanooga Choo-Choos I'd sell him for half that....I'll even put a switch and some track on a board with a cheesy plastic billboard... .. > I agree with John's assessment of this subject wholeheartedly but had to note this for those like me who just wondered. Bidder #6 - $22,009.09 Don V. > Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3900	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd

Has anyone happened to look at the winning bidder's most frequient purchases?? I did... Mostly porn and fetish / bondage stuff... kind of creepy all around, if you ask me... Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Has anyone asked the winnig bidder why it was so valuable to him? _________________________________________________________________ Picture this – share your photos and you could win big! http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3901	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd

Unless your Tyco have pictures of naked women or of a fetish/bondage nature, I think the winning bidder would not be interested.   Have you happened to look at the winning bidder's most frequient purchases?? I did... Mostly porn and fetish / bondage stuff... & Lionel... kind of creepy all around, if you ask me... Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Hey, I have some Tyco Chattanooga Choo-Choos I'd sell him for half that....I'll even put a switch and some track on a board with a cheesy plastic billboard... .. > I agree with John's assessment of this subject wholeheartedly but had to note this for those like me who just wondered. Bidder #6 - $22,009.09 Don V. > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3902	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd

Will someone track this to make sure it was bought successfully ? [ I just wondered?] HH curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Hey, I have some Tyco Chattanooga Choo-Choos I'd sell him for half that....I'll even put a switch and some track on a board with a cheesy plastic billboard... .. > I agree with John's assessment of this subject wholeheartedly but had to note this for those like me who just wondered. Bidder #6 - $22,009.09 Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3903	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd

There is no such thing as an interval. The high bidder simply placed some high bid. The amount is unknown to us. Ebay calls this a "proxy bid". It simply means that you are telling ebay your maximum bid, and, as needed, ebay will bid up to that amount for you. You win an ebay auction for whatever the next lowest bidder bid plus the bid increment. Often that increment is only 50 cents or a dollar, but it may have been 100 dollars in this auction. Let's say the high bidder bid $50,000 but the next highest bidder i 9,600. The high bidder will show as 9,700 If somebody bid 12,500, the high bidder now has it at 12,600. If somebody bids 15,300, the high bidder now has it at 15,400. Ebay is doing this automatically. If that 15,300 bid never existed, the high bidder would have won at 12,600 if that 12,500 bid was the last action. Only until somebody outbid the 50,000 would there be a new high bidder. ebay is a "timed" auction. This is similar to the "silent" auction done at fund raisers where stuff is spread out on a table with a piece of paper in front of each and people write in an amount above the last one and put their name on it. But, due to bidder behavior, ebay is somebody used as if it were a "voice" auction for some, and a "sealed bid" auction of sorts for others. There is actually little reason to bid before the last few seconds because all that does is announce to the world you are there and help drive the price up. Of course, there is the risk of a computer glitch or internet service provider problem or something that might prevent you from bidding and some place a bid just to protect against that. And, rarely, a bidder will pull an auction if there isn't any action, such as zero bids. And I'm pretty sure that shills are sometimes used to help push prices up of proxy bids. Chuck Kinzer Quoting Glenn476 <glenn476@...>: > wonder what the bid interval was for the automatic bidding? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: donvdh > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:10 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Totally absurd > > > > Item number: 300116103729 - Bidder #6 is eBay ID grant1952 - > Winning bid - $22,009.09. Total of 19 bids - Winner only bid twice, > won on automatic bidding. Actual bid entered not shown, only winning > amount. Bidder #9 - one bid entered - $21, 909.09. > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3904	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd

I can probably find someone local to arrange those pictures, Sean, if it will help. I can only imagine what he intends to do with this or where he intends to "stick" it...........in his "collection", I mean. > > Unless your Tyco have pictures of naked women or of a fetish/bondage nature, I think the winning bidder would not be interested. > > Have you happened to look at the winning bidder's most frequient purchases?? I did... Mostly porn and fetish / bondage stuff... & Lionel... kind of creepy all around, if you ask me... > Sean > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Hey, I have some Tyco Chattanooga Choo-Choos I'd sell him for half > that....I'll even put a switch and some track on a board with a cheesy > plastic billboard..... > > > I agree with John's assessment of this subject wholeheartedly but > had to note this for those like me who just wondered. Bidder #6 - > $22,009.09 Don V. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3905	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may not bid upon or buy, that is their business. This is not enjoying the hobby as I would envision it.   John ckinzer@... wrote: There is no such thing as an interval. The high bidder simply placed some high bid. The amount is unknown to us. Ebay calls this a "proxy bid". It simply means that you are telling ebay your maximum bid, and, as needed, ebay will bid up to that amount for you. You win an ebay auction for whatever the next lowest bidder bid plus the bid increment. Often that increment is only 50 cents or a dollar, but it may have been 100 dollars in this auction. Let's say the high bidder bid $50,000 but the next highest bidder i 9,600. The high bidder will show as 9,700 If somebody bid 12,500, the high bidder now has it at 12,600. If somebody bids 15,300, the high bidder now has it at 15,400. Ebay is doing this automatically. If that 15,300 bid never existed, the high bidder would have won at 12,600 if that 12,500 bid was the last action. Only until somebody outbid the 50,000 would there be a new high bidder. ebay is a "timed" auction. This is similar to the "silent" auction done at fund raisers where stuff is spread out on a table with a piece of paper in front of each and people write in an amount above the last one and put their name on it. But, due to bidder behavior, ebay is somebody used as if it were a "voice" auction for some, and a "sealed bid" auction of sorts for others. There is actually little reason to bid before the last few seconds because all that does is announce to the world you are there and help drive the price up. Of course, there is the risk of a computer glitch or internet service provider problem or something that might prevent you from bidding and some place a bid just to protect against that. And, rarely, a bidder will pull an auction if there isn't any action, such as zero bids. And I'm pretty sure that shills are sometimes used to help push prices up of proxy bids. Chuck Kinzer Quoting Glenn476 <glenn476@tco. net>: > wonder what the bid interval was for the automatic bidding? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: donvdh > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:10 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Totally absurd > > > > Item number: 300116103729 - Bidder #6 is eBay ID grant1952 - > Winning bid - $22,009.09. Total of 19 bids - Winner only bid twice, > won on automatic bidding. Actual bid entered not shown, only winning > amount. Bidder #9 - one bid entered - $21, 909.09. > > > > Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3906	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

True. However, I always enjoy enlightening myself on the idiocy of the human race whenever possible. Makes one more aware of the pitfalls when dealing with these people, whoever thay are. Recent events have proven PT Barnum correct. Having recently done some rework on Gilbert tank cars, I can tell you 100% of the units here showed some sign of Zamac Rot. Spending the money the first one did for said item would cause me concern if folks think it is actually worth that. Same issue with pricing guides. Do you really think for "updates" the authors really go to every train show in the country and monitor every last sale, tabulating results and generating pricing that reflects real-life sales? Not on your life. When I di train shows many years ago, we would wince when we saw folks enter the hall with one of those "guides" under their arm..... Dave > I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may not bid upon or buy, that is their business. This is not enjoying the hobby as I would envision it. > > John > > ckinzer@... wrote: > There is no such thing as an interval. > > The high bidder simply placed some high bid. The amount is unknown to us. > > Ebay calls this a "proxy bid". It simply means that you are telling > ebay your maximum bid, and, as needed, ebay will bid up to that amount > for you. > > You win an ebay auction for whatever the next lowest bidder bid plus > the bid increment. Often that increment is only 50 cents or a dollar, > but it may have been 100 dollars in this auction. > > Let's say the high bidder bid $50,000 but the next highest bidder i > 9,600. The high bidder will show as 9,700 If somebody bid 12,500, > the high bidder now has it at 12,600. If somebody bids 15,300, the > high bidder now has it at 15,400. Ebay is doing this automatically. > If that 15,300 bid never existed, the high bidder would have won at > 12,600 if that 12,500 bid was the last action. Only until somebody > outbid the 50,000 would there be a new high bidder. > > ebay is a "timed" auction. This is similar to the "silent" auction > done at fund raisers where stuff is spread out on a table with a piece > of paper in front of each and people write in an amount above the last > one and put their name on it. > > But, due to bidder behavior, ebay is somebody used as if it were a > "voice" auction for some, and a "sealed bid" auction of sorts for > others. > > There is actually little reason to bid before the last few seconds > because all that does is announce to the world you are there and help > drive the price up. Of course, there is the risk of a computer glitch > or internet service provider problem or something that might prevent > you from bidding and some place a bid just to protect against that. > And, rarely, a bidder will pull an auction if there isn't any action, > such as zero bids. And I'm pretty sure that shills are sometimes used > to help push prices up of proxy bids. > > Chuck Kinzer > > Quoting Glenn476 <glenn476@...>: > > > wonder what the bid interval was for the automatic bidding? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: donvdh > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:10 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Totally absurd > > > > > > > > Item number: 300116103729 - Bidder #6 is eBay ID grant1952 - > > Winning bid - $22,009.09. Total of 19 bids - Winner only bid twice, > > won on automatic bidding. Actual bid entered not shown, only winning > > amount. Bidder #9 - one bid entered - $21, 909.09. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3907	From: ckinzer@fix.net	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

I wouldn't think what I wrote is particular for or against ebay. It is just how it works. ebay is simply a forum for commerce. Thanks to its enormous reach, I have found things that I wouldn't have had much of a prayer of finding without it. I certainly wouldn't have had much luck at train shows. And I've gotten plenty of good deals. And done OK with the few things I've unloaded. (I seem to be running a trade deficit!) If anybody wonders about ebay, they can find out for free (so long as they only buy). Someone can buy some smaller items like an Ambroid kit or a book or a magazine they might be looking for. It doesn't cost much to find out. Actually, the work and hassle (and all the fees) is on the part of the seller. The buyer doesn't have to do much more than click, click (and if using Pay Pal click a couple more times) and then open the package when it is delivered. Also, a lot of regular stores have an ebay presence and you can buy their stuff through ebay. Chuck Kinzer Quoting John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>: > I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get > involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may > not bid upon or buy, that is their business. This is not enjoying > the hobby as I would envision it. > > John >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3908	From: rob wiggins	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

You can buy an real caboose and and rail, with money left over Rob John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may not bid upon or buy, that is their business. This is not enjoying the hobby as I would envision it.   John ckinzer@fix. net wrote: There is no such thing as an interval. The high bidder simply placed some high bid. The amount is unknown to us. Ebay calls this a "proxy bid". It simply means that you are telling ebay your maximum bid, and, as needed, ebay will bid up to that amount for you. You win an ebay auction for whatever the next lowest bidder bid plus the bid increment. Often that increment is only 50 cents or a dollar, but it may have been 100 dollars in this auction. Let's say the high bidder bid $50,000 but the next highest bidder i 9,600. The high bidder will show as 9,700 If somebody bid 12,500, the high bidder now has it at 12,600. If somebody bids 15,300, the high bidder now has it at 15,400. Ebay is doing this automatically. If that 15,300 bid never existed, the high bidder would have won at 12,600 if that 12,500 bid was the last action. Only until somebody outbid the 50,000 would there be a new high bidder. ebay is a "timed" auction. This is similar to the "silent" auction done at fund raisers where stuff is spread out on a table with a piece of paper in front of each and people write in an amount above the last one and put their name on it. But, due to bidder behavior, ebay is somebody used as if it were a "voice" auction for some, and a "sealed bid" auction of sorts for others. There is actually little reason to bid before the last few seconds because all that does is announce to the world you are there and help drive the price up. Of course, there is the risk of a computer glitch or internet service provider problem or something that might prevent you from bidding and some place a bid just to protect against that. And, rarely, a bidder will pull an auction if there isn't any action, such as zero bids. And I'm pretty sure that shills are sometimes used to help push prices up of proxy bids. Chuck Kinzer Quoting Glenn476 <glenn476@tco. net>: > wonder what the bid interval was for the automatic bidding? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: donvdh > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:10 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Totally absurd > > > > Item number: 300116103729 - Bidder #6 is eBay ID grant1952 - > Winning bid - $22,009.09. Total of 19 bids - Winner only bid twice, > won on automatic bidding. Actual bid entered not shown, only winning > amount. Bidder #9 - one bid entered - $21, 909.09. > > > > Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3909	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

and I didn't mention evilbay once..... > I wouldn't think what I wrote is particular for or against ebay. It > is just how it works. > > ebay is simply a forum for commerce. Thanks to its enormous reach, I > have found things that I wouldn't have had much of a prayer of finding > without it. I certainly wouldn't have had much luck at train shows. > And I've gotten plenty of good deals. And done OK with the few things > I've unloaded. (I seem to be running a trade deficit!) > > If anybody wonders about ebay, they can find out for free (so long as > they only buy). Someone can buy some smaller items like an Ambroid > kit or a book or a magazine they might be looking for. It doesn't > cost much to find out. > > Actually, the work and hassle (and all the fees) is on the part of the > seller. The buyer doesn't have to do much more than click, click (and > if using Pay Pal click a couple more times) and then open the package > when it is delivered. > > Also, a lot of regular stores have an ebay presence and you can buy > their stuff through ebay. > > Chuck Kinzer > > Quoting John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>: > > > I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get > > involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may > > not bid upon or buy, that is their business. This is not enjoying > > the hobby as I would envision it. > > > > John > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3910	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

I guess the only Justification I would have for such an insane amount of money to be spent on a single object would be the possibility of the bidders being the children of one or two of these past NBC executives, who remember seeing such an object sitting on their fathers desk. If they are the offspring of past executives, they a no doubt very wealthy and the wealthy live in a different world than the rest of us. One we may never understand. For them, $22K may be the equivalent of $2.2 ti the rest of us. At that point, what is $2.2 to the common man?? A news paper and a cup of coffee?  No, that is more like $3 - $4 now...   Yeah... it might seem like a lot, but that is because we are normal... I only wish I had the cash to spend freely that way... If I could, I would be certain my children are set-up for life and then the rest of my family..  If I had plenty left... that $22K may have ended-up as $32K and the lovely little rare engine would then be sitting in another box in my attic...   You see... I believe the core of this topic is jealousy... If we all had it to spend, we most likely would... maybe not on trains... it might be a long deserved vacation but most of us would spend at least some of it.   That is about all I have to say on the topic... I think... Sean You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3911	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Not here. Wonderment and amazement. A) I would never spend that much on an object like that, and B) I can't imagine anyone who would. The three vehicles I drive, the 1949 Willys wagon I bought 32 years ago for $20. That's twenty bucks. The 1950 Ford Tudor I bought 38-1/2 years ago for $125, and the 50 Pickup 18 years ago for $325 or $350. I saw an ASTER Electric 1:32 BigBoy for ten grand once, and wondered why someone would want something that required a minimum of 8' RADIUS curves. No, not jealousy at all. Why spend more than you have to? You could pick up an Athearn Hustler for FREE, a Lionel billboard, piece of wood, track and a switch, and from the shown photos have the billboard cardboard reprinted, the display board made, the name plate fabricated, the locomotive custom painted, and be into the whole thing for 1% of what it went for. And who would ever claim it wasn't original? Dave > You see... I believe the core of this topic is jealousy... If we all had it to spend, we most likely would... maybe not on trains... it might be a long deserved vacation but most of us would spend at least some of it. > > That is about all I have to say on the topic... I think... > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3912	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

>----- Original Message ----- >From: John Barlow >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:07 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Totally absurd...minus enjoyment >I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get >involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may not bid >upon or buy, that is >their business. This is not enjoying the hobby as I >would envision it. >John I buy a lot on eBay. Maybe sometimes I pay more than I should, but I have never been "burned" (My feedback number right now is 401, so I have bought a couple things <G>) The secret is know what you're bidding on and what you're willing to pay. To some a Varney F-3 for 20 bucks may seem like a rip off, to me it's worth it. Sure I'd love it if someone sent me a whole box full of them for free (like a list member DID with a Tyco General, photos soon, she's almost done painting), but it comes back down to something is worth what someone else is willing to pay. Because some idiot was willing to pay $20,000+ for a Lionel version of the Hustler, I guess to him it's worth it. He paid around $300 for three empty boxes and one car too, so go figure.... Wonder if I can talk him into a couple HObbyline boxes :-) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3913	From: donvdh	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion

It seems to me we have discussed this Lionel switcher and its bidder quite extensively. Amateur, perhaps in the case of some professional, psychology and means and merits of spending. I've contributed by posting a running "scoreboard" of bids and amounts. We can neither change nor affect history, it's done. I'm unlearned to totally ignorant in the area of HO trains. I enjoy and learn from the discussions, facts, and references given. I've even managed to sell a few small pieces to other list members. My feeling, and desire, is that while it may not stimulate as many personal opinions on a given subject, except possibly Hi-Fi drive systems, is that we return to what I understood was the basic tenet of this page. A forum for the exchange of basic and advanced information to enhance our enjoyment and abilities to work on and enjoy our hobby. A head-shaking but not earth-shattering anomaly of human behavior doesn't seem to me to be the core purpose of this page. Don Dellman - If I'm out of line here tell me in front of everybody. If I'm not - please review and perhaps restate the reasons and purposes of establishing this group. To me, any venue where I can legally obtain information, sources, and pieces for my trains is of interest. I am the only one who can apply what I feel the value is for a part or piece for my trains. Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3914	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion

Right on, Don.   And thanks for changing the message subject line as well.   Lots of rambling goes on here - and can be enjoyable but when a topic interests me and I click on it again and again and find nothing new about the topic, it's frustrating.   'Nuff said.   Thanks everyone for your fascinating posts!   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: It seems to me we have discussed this Lionel switcher and its bidder quite extensively. Amateur, perhaps in the case of some professional, psychology and means and merits of spending. I've contributed by posting a running "scoreboard" of bids and amounts. We can neither change nor affect history, it's done. I'm unlearned to totally ignorant in the area of HO trains. I enjoy and learn from the discussions, facts, and references given. I've even managed to sell a few small pieces to other list members. My feeling, and desire, is that while it may not stimulate as many personal opinions on a given subject, except possibly Hi-Fi drive systems, is that we return to what I understood was the basic tenet of this page. A forum for the exchange of basic and advanced information to enhance our enjoyment and abilities to work on and enjoy our hobby. A head-shaking but not earth-shattering anomaly of human behavior doesn't seem to me to be the core purpose of this page. Don Dellman - If I'm out of line here tell me in front of everybody. If I'm not - please review and perhaps restate the reasons and purposes of establishing this group. To me, any venue where I can legally obtain information, sources, and pieces for my trains is of interest. I am the only one who can apply what I feel the value is for a part or piece for my trains. Don V Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3915	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion

Well put!!!  It’s over-and the switcher will probably never see daylight again, so it’s time to move on to some vintage modeling. . . .  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of donvdh Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 6:51 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Extremes, purpose, and an opinion   It seems to me we have discussed this Lionel switcher and its bidder quite extensively. Amateur, perhaps in the case of some professional, psychology and means and merits of spending. I've contributed by posting a running "scoreboard" of bids and amounts. We can neither change nor affect history, it's done. I'm unlearned to totally ignorant in the area of HO trains. I enjoy and learn from the discussions, facts, and references given. I've even managed to sell a few small pieces to other list members. My feeling, and desire, is that while it may not stimulate as many personal opinions on a given subject, except possibly Hi-Fi drive systems, is that we return to what I understood was the basic tenet of this page. A forum for the exchange of basic and advanced information to enhance our enjoyment and abilities to work on and enjoy our hobby. A head-shaking but not earth-shattering anomaly of human behavior doesn't seem to me to be the core purpose of this page. Don Dellman - If I'm out of line here tell me in front of everybody. If I'm not - please review and perhaps restate the reasons and purposes of establishing this group. To me, any venue where I can legally obtain information, sources, and pieces for my trains is of interest. I am the only one who can apply what I feel the value is for a part or piece for my trains. Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3916	From: tubamarx	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: AF Pikemaster Drive

Does anyone know are the AF and Marx drives and the frames for the F-3 interchangeable? The AF shell I have had part of a frame in it. I think it was an original, but it was stamped Marx.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3917	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion

>----- Original Message ----- >From: donvdh >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 5:50 PM >Subject: [vintageHO] Extremes, purpose, and an opinion >It seems to me we have discussed this Lionel switcher and its bidder quite >extensively. Amateur, perhaps in the case of some professional, psychology >and means >and merits of spending. I've contributed by posting a running >"scoreboard" of bids and amounts. We can neither change nor affect history, >it's done. I'm unlearned >to totally ignorant in the area of HO trains. I >enjoy and learn from the discussions, facts, and references given. I've >even managed to sell a few small pieces to other >list members. My feeling, >and desire, is that while it may not stimulate as many personal opinions on >a given subject, except possibly Hi-Fi drive systems, is that we >return to >what I understood was the basic tenet of this page. A forum for the >exchange of basic and advanced information to enhance our enjoyment and >abilities >to work on and enjoy our hobby. A head-shaking but not >earth-shattering anomaly of human behavior doesn't seem to me to be the >core purpose of this page. >Don Dellman - If I'm out of line here tell me in front of everybody. If I'm >not - please review and perhaps restate the reasons and purposes of >establishing this >group. To me, any venue where I can legally obtain >information, sources, and pieces for my trains is of interest. I am the >only one who can apply what I feel the >value is for a part or piece for my >trains. Don V The purpose of the group is I think well stated on the home page. A place for those of us who love, collect, and RUN "vintage" HO trains. For many of us, it's recapturing our youth, the HO we grew up with. For others, newer to the hobby, it's to gain a better understanding of the heritage that made HO what it is today. Whatever your reasons for being here, any discussion of these models is "on topic", and, sometimes unfortunately, prices for these kinds of models does affectour enjoyment of them. The Lionel switcher IS "vintage" HO, and, like any list, discussions do tend to wander away from the original intent of the list on occasion, but that's just human nature. Basically we're here to talk about and share our knowledge of those wonderful models from the 1940's, 50's and early 60's, when a modeller was judged by his ability, not by the credit limit on his Visa card. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3918	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

as my Dad, a stamp collector, used to say when the topic was an expensive stamp, "any item is worth what the buyer wants to pay for it" --basically, how bad he wants it and how much he is willing to pay.  I suspect we may see something on this item in Classic Toy Trains soon. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Totally absurd...minus enjoyment >----- Original Message ----- >From: John Barlow >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:07 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Totally absurd...minus enjoyment >I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get >involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may not bid >upon or buy, that is >their business. This is not enjoying the hobby as I >would envision it. >John I buy a lot on eBay. Maybe sometimes I pay more than I should, but I have never been "burned" (My feedback number right now is 401, so I have bought a couple things <G>) The secret is know what you're bidding on and what you're willing to pay. To some a Varney F-3 for 20 bucks may seem like a rip off, to me it's worth it. Sure I'd love it if someone sent me a whole box full of them for free (like a list member DID with a Tyco General, photos soon, she's almost done painting), but it comes back down to something is worth what someone else is willing to pay. Because some idiot was willing to pay $20,000+ for a Lionel version of the Hustler, I guess to him it's worth it. He paid around $300 for three empty boxes and one car too, so go figure.... Wonder if I can talk him into a couple HObbyline boxes :-) Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3919	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Con-Cor PA

Hi group, Now a lenghty story: Some of you may already know I live in Vienna , Austria; I was born in 1959. When I developed an Interest in US trains in the early seventies, I noticed models of ATSF PAs in several Hobbyshop windows. When asking about them, the dealers told me these are for display only and would not be sold, and also could not be ordered. I only found out they were done by the Austrian company of Liliput. After some time, a dealer lost interest in the thing - or became tired of me harrassing him - and sold me the loco from his store window. It looked nice but made noises like a coffee grinder and vibrated heavily - with the skills of a teenager I could not fix this. Unfortunately, I tried my hands on "superdetailing" it ( wire handrails) - it suffered badly from this, and two subsequent moves. I did not see any of those locos for the next thirty years. Some years ago I found a second hand shop in Vienna which had a box of PA shells ( shells were two seperate parts, upper body and lower part which held sterps, skirts and pilots) and sideframes . And, to my gret surprise, a lower body part which obviously came from a B-unit! Bought some of the better parts of this box, today I regret I did not buy the whole box... In the meantime I have purchased another damaged but complete PA in Austria; an undecorated PA and a undecorated PB shell. When studying vintage magazines I found that Con-Cor advertised the ATSF PA in Railroad Model Craftsman January, 1970 - later they announced PRR, GN and other versions , powered and dummys, and PB units... I contacted Con-Cor two ? years ago and asked why they never sold this loco in quantity. They ( Jim Conway?) replied that they told Liliput the drive of the initial series was inacceptable and requested improvements for a further production run. I also understand the Athearn PA was released at the same time... Liliput never showed up with a improved version, and went out of business due to bad management some years later. - Today collecting Liliput is a real pain as many of their steam locos have the Zamac disease, with motor frames and drivers disintegrating. - the PA drive consisted of a rear motor truck with gear drive to a worm shaft driving the outer axles. Here was the main problem of the loco I purchased in the seventies - worm shaft did not mesh correctly with the axle gears. - the front truck was driven by a cardan shaft driven by the rear worm shaft. An awkward and badly executed design, no match to an Athearn drive. However the shell was - in my opinion - more accurate than the Athearn. Now, whats left to ask? I wonder if any of those alternate Roadnames announced were ever produced - I have only seen ATSF and undecorated powered units. I also wonder if complete PBs were ever sold - I have a lower undecorated body from Vienna, and a upper undecorated body from the USA. I would appreciate any further info on this loco, did ( does) anybody else of this group own a Con-Cor PA? Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3920	From: donvdh	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: NMRA Headquarters Express Train \ 1985 NMRA 50th Anniversary Commme

Another pre-sale advertisement - NMRA Headquarters Express Train as discussed earlier this week and weekend.  I am going to sell a complete 1980 NMRA Headquarters Fund-Raising Passenger train - steam engine & tender runs, very good to excellent (no box, it was trashed, unfortunately), and the 5 heavyweight passenger cars (brand new, unused, in extremely good condition original boxes). Anyone one interested please e-mail me directly - donvdh@... - with a new e-mail form. My provider's filter rejects second-hand or forwarded messages and I do not even get to see them. Also, if anyone happens to have a surplus 1985 NMRA 50th Anniversary Commemorative engine& tender or diesels (whichever came with it, I still have no clue on that) I am very interested and looking for the correct power issued with the set. Thanks, Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3921	From: bitlerisvj	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

That is probably why I lost interest in stamp collecting. The object was to try to fill in the blanks, and the blanks were usually somewhat rare and pricey. At least with model railroading, we can fill in the blanks, if we wish, without breaking the bank in many cases. I know some folks are purely into the collecting aspect of the hobby, and certainly there is room for that. But fortunately for us folks that like to restore and run our Vintage HO, there is still plenty out there for reasonable prices. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > as my Dad, a stamp collector, used to say when the topic was an expensive stamp, "any item is worth what the buyer wants to pay for it" --basically, how bad he wants it and how much he is willing to pay. I suspect we may see something on this item in Classic Toy Trains soon. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Don Dellmann > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:01 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Totally absurd...minus enjoyment > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: John Barlow > >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:07 PM > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Totally absurd...minus enjoyment > > >I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get > >involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may not bid > >upon or buy, that is >their business. This is not enjoying the hobby as I > >would envision it. > > >John > > I buy a lot on eBay. Maybe sometimes I pay more than I should, but I have > never been "burned" (My feedback number right now is 401, so I have bought > a couple things <G>) > > The secret is know what you're bidding on and what you're willing to pay. > To some a Varney F-3 for 20 bucks may seem like a rip off, to me it's worth > it. Sure I'd love it if someone sent me a whole box full of them for free > (like a list member DID with a Tyco General, photos soon, she's almost done > painting), but it comes back down to something is worth what someone else is > willing to pay. > > Because some idiot was willing to pay $20,000+ for a Lionel version of the > Hustler, I guess to him it's worth it. He paid around $300 for three empty > boxes and one car too, so go figure.... > > Wonder if I can talk him into a couple HObbyline boxes :-) > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3922	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Dear Don,   I had one occasion to bid on a plastic (Bachmann, pre-Spectrum) Reading 2-8-0 that I thought was a fair price. Somebody else got it. A friend here in Denver, an eBay fanatic, later told me about all the gamesmanship involved of when and this and that and I was instantly turned off by the whole thing. I surf the Internet, checking "Bookmarks" I have stored, from time to time and will email if I want something I see. Auctions? Bah-humbug! You got it; I buy it- "Done and done!" as old Ebernezer Scrooge said "In a Christmas Carol." So far-no intruding spirits, mistaken as "undigested bits of beef." I have no time to play games.   John Barlow  Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: John Barlow >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:07 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Totally absurd...minus enjoyment >I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get >involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may not bid >upon or buy, that is >their business. This is not enjoying the hobby as I >would envision it. >John I buy a lot on eBay. Maybe sometimes I pay more than I should, but I have never been "burned" (My feedback number right now is 401, so I have bought a couple things <G>) The secret is know what you're bidding on and what you're willing to pay. To some a Varney F-3 for 20 bucks may seem like a rip off, to me it's worth it. Sure I'd love it if someone sent me a whole box full of them for free (like a list member DID with a Tyco General, photos soon, she's almost done painting), but it comes back down to something is worth what someone else is willing to pay. Because some idiot was willing to pay $20,000+ for a Lionel version of the Hustler, I guess to him it's worth it. He paid around $300 for three empty boxes and one car too, so go figure.... Wonder if I can talk him into a couple HObbyline boxes :-) Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3923	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Hello John, Neither do I have time for games... For me, this is why I use an Auction Sniper website to throw in my max bid. I see the item, copy the auction number, go to my sniper site, enter in the item number, calculate my max bid (Note I said caculate), set my max bid, set the time I want it to fire my bid (This is already set as a default, so I actually only need to set the item number and max bid) - Then I forget it.  If I do not get it for the max I was willing to pay, then I feel no loss....ever. I figure, I save myself approximately 60-70% of what I would pay retail for the same item. I have won the right to purchase on nearly 85-90% of the items I bid on.   I have purchased everything from trains to tools (a floor sander and a boxed Dewalt 1/2" right angle drill as an example) to parts for my mustang & my ladder racks and tool boxes for my truck. I have nearly 3000 transactions with almost 1000 being purchases... I can count on one hand the purchases I am unhappy with.  (The right angle drill I had within 2.5 days of the end of the auction and I paid nearly $100 less than retail.)   It is no game to me, it is all in the way you look at it. For me, it is just another tool which provides me with items I might otherwise not find or be able to afford.   Sean John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: Dear Don,   I had one occasion to bid on a plastic (Bachmann, pre-Spectrum) Reading 2-8-0 that I thought was a fair price. Somebody else got it. A friend here in Denver, an eBay fanatic, later told me about all the gamesmanship involved of when and this and that and I was instantly turned off by the whole thing. I surf the Internet, checking "Bookmarks" I have stored, from time to time and will email if I want something I see. Auctions? Bah-humbug! You got it; I buy it- "Done and done!" as old Ebernezer Scrooge said "In a Christmas Carol." So far-no intruding spirits, mistaken as "undigested bits of beef." I have no time to play games.   John Barlow  Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: John Barlow >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:07 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Totally absurd...minus enjoyment >I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get >involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may not bid >upon or buy, that is >their business. This is not enjoying the hobby as I >would envision it. >John I buy a lot on eBay. Maybe sometimes I pay more than I should, but I have never been "burned" (My feedback number right now is 401, so I have bought a couple things <G>) The secret is know what you're bidding on and what you're willing to pay. To some a Varney F-3 for 20 bucks may seem like a rip off, to me it's worth it. Sure I'd love it if someone sent me a whole box full of them for free (like a list member DID with a Tyco General, photos soon, she's almost done painting), but it comes back down to something is worth what someone else is willing to pay. Because some idiot was willing to pay $20,000+ for a Lionel version of the Hustler, I guess to him it's worth it. He paid around $300 for three empty boxes and one car too, so go figure.... Wonder if I can talk him into a couple HObbyline boxes :-) Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3924	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Interesting Sean............ Bid Sniping.........Do you suppose eBAY will outlaw these services or do you think they are promoting them like they do paypal? Loren _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3925	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Outlaw?  Why?   It is no more illegal than paying a paper boy to deliver a news paper to my door, rather than going to the store to pick it up. It is a bidding service. I pay them. The place the bid when and by how much I tell them to. It is no different than if I were to have a representative located at an auction house during the time of an auction.   Those who wish to sit and wait until the end can do that. I would rather pay the 1% it costs me for the snipe.   eBay will no sooner prevent such services than they would prevent paying via Paypal.   As for promoting it... I have never seen it done and i do not think they will. It is a completly sepirate entity and if thy did provide or promote the service, I do believe it would be a conflict of interests.. It would be like the house actutions I have attended where the auctioneer is bidding for himself as well. I leave those as soon as I see it happening.   Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Interesting Sean........ .... Bid Sniping..... ....Do you suppose eBAY will outlaw these services or do you think they are promoting them like they do paypal? Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth. msn.com?source= msntaglineliveea rthhm Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3926	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Outlaw or Ban........... For the same reason you have given " It would be like the house actutions I have attended where the auctioneer is bidding for himself as well. I leave those as soon as I see it happening" Loren _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3927	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Why naught? In a "real" auction, you are present, and no electronic "bid" suddenly appears out of nowhere. If someone wants to "bid" on something, then sit there and bid. Setting up a "sniping" program and going to bed isn't what it's all about, and when I first heard of "sniping" my evilbay days were over, permanently. Sure they promote it at evilbay. Anything to increase volume and income from "winning". If they were to be upstanding citizens, they would make random cutoff dates and times that were not announced. That would kill "sniping" permanently, but they won't. > > Outlaw? > Why? > > It is no more illegal than paying a paper boy to deliver a news paper to my door, rather than going to the store to pick it up. It is a bidding service. I pay them. The place the bid when and by how much I tell them to. It is no different than if I were to have a representative located at an auction house during the time of an auction. > > Those who wish to sit and wait until the end can do that. I would rather pay the 1% it costs me for the snipe. > > eBay will no sooner prevent such services than they would prevent paying via Paypal. > > As for promoting it... I have never seen it done and i do not think they will. It is a completly sepirate entity and if thy did provide or promote the service, I do believe it would be a conflict of interests.. It would be like the house actutions I have attended where the auctioneer is bidding for himself as well. I leave those as soon as I see it happening. > > Sean > > Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: > Interesting Sean............ > > Bid Sniping.........Do you suppose eBAY will outlaw these services > or do you think they are promoting them like they do paypal? > > Loren > > __________________________________________________________ > Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN > http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3928	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

I do not understand?    What are you saying?   So, the people who are giving the bids over phones should be disquallified as well?  I see little difference... It is the same thing... They are paying for the service of a representative to take the call.   Please provide an arguement with substance, not emotion... So far, I do not understand your point other than you are against it. Which is fine, for you. I do not know your circumstance, but for me, I have a full time job and two kids under the ages of 5. I spent the past two weeks building a huge jungle gym I purchased from Sam's Club. I am not able to be on eBay during most afternoons. Does that mean I am not permitted to bid? I know when I used to bid well before the last minute, I won the bid on less than 10% of what I bid on to those people who chose to sit and wait until the end, when I was not able to be at the computer. Sometimes, I was sickened by missing out on some of those items.    So, what is fair? or so unfair about paying for a representative to cast my bid, if I so chose?   If you were to ask the person selling the piece... I bet they would not have a different opinion than  mine... I bet they would like the bid, no matter who places it. I know I do, when I sell.   Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Outlaw or Ban......... .. For the same reason you have given " It would be like the house actutions I have attended where the auctioneer is bidding for himself as well. I leave those as soon as I see it happening" Loren ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth. msn.com?source= msntaglineliveea rthhm Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3929	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Sniping

curmudgeon & etal, Even at some of the most posh auction houses, "absentee bids" are accepted ( I know that's not quite the same as sniping, but they are similiar ). I don't have any problem with that, but I do agree that if eBAY was concerned with their image ( which from my experience they are NOT., Like you stated, they are only concerned with the almight buck ) they would institue some form of sniper sniping, so as to restore peoples trust in their auction house. But I don't think I will live long enough to see this, unless people shun eBAY, which they won't. I bid an auction awhile back where the seller stated in his auction listing that if you "sniped" the auction at the last minute without having bid the auction earlier, he would cancel your bid and not sell to you. With "sniping" being a last second bid, I would imagine that cancelling a snipers bid would be tough to do before the aution ended, and I wonder what eBAY's policy would be if the seller refused to sell to the sniping high bidder??? Oh the joys of our world today.............. But has it ever really been any different??? Between the decline of our society and the rapidly rising cost of visiting a practicing physician & the associated medical costs, it's no wonder I don't want to live to be 100.............. Good thingy we still have "Vintage HO" to keep us old farts going, isn't it??? :-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! http://mobile.msn.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3930	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Sean , It takes discipline not to get swept up in the frenzy ! That's the way I look at it too , it's a tool ,a means to an end period ! What some fool does with his money is his own concern . Henry Hultgren--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello John, > Neither do I have time for games... For me, this is why I use an Auction Sniper website to throw in my max bid. I see the item, copy the auction number, go to my sniper site, enter in the item number, calculate my max bid (Note I said caculate), set my max bid, set the time I want it to fire my bid (This is already set as a default, so I actually only need to set the item number and max bid) - Then I forget it. If I do not get it for the max I was willing to pay, then I feel no loss....ever. I figure, I save myself approximately 60-70% of what I would pay retail for the same item. I have won the right to purchase on nearly 85-90% of the items I bid on. > > I have purchased everything from trains to tools (a floor sander and a boxed Dewalt 1/2" right angle drill as an example) to parts for my mustang & my ladder racks and tool boxes for my truck. I have nearly 3000 transactions with almost 1000 being purchases... I can count on one hand the purchases I am unhappy with. (The right angle drill I had within 2.5 days of the end of the auction and I paid nearly $100 less than retail.) > > It is no game to me, it is all in the way you look at it. For me, it is just another tool which provides me with items I might otherwise not find or be able to afford. > > Sean > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > Dear Don, > > I had one occasion to bid on a plastic (Bachmann, pre-Spectrum) Reading 2-8-0 that I thought was a fair price. Somebody else got it. A friend here in Denver, an eBay fanatic, later told me about all the gamesmanship involved of when and this and that and I was instantly turned off by the whole thing. I surf the Internet, checking "Bookmarks" I have stored, from time to time and will email if I want something I see. Auctions? Bah-humbug! You got it; I buy it- "Done and done!" as old Ebernezer Scrooge said "In a Christmas Carol." So far-no intruding spirits, mistaken as "undigested bits of beef." I have no time to play games. > > John Barlow > > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: John Barlow > >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:07 PM > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Totally absurd...minus enjoyment > > >I am sorry, but what I read here is further reason for me not to get > >involved in eBay. As for whatever else this purchaser may or may not bid > >upon or buy, that is >their business. This is not enjoying the hobby as I > >would envision it. > > >John > > I buy a lot on eBay. Maybe sometimes I pay more than I should, but I have > never been "burned" (My feedback number right now is 401, so I have bought > a couple things <G>) > > The secret is know what you're bidding on and what you're willing to pay. > To some a Varney F-3 for 20 bucks may seem like a rip off, to me it's worth > it. Sure I'd love it if someone sent me a whole box full of them for free > (like a list member DID with a Tyco General, photos soon, she's almost done > painting), but it comes back down to something is worth what someone else is > willing to pay. > > Because some idiot was willing to pay $20,000+ for a Lionel version of the > Hustler, I guess to him it's worth it. He paid around $300 for three empty > boxes and one car too, so go figure.... > > Wonder if I can talk him into a couple HObbyline boxes :-) > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3931	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

What?   "If they were to be upstanding citizens, they would make random cutoff dates and times that were not announced. That would kill "sniping" permanently, but they won't.   What does that mean?  Random cut-off times? Un-announced?   Yeah... if we lived in Russia!   As a seller, I would fight this tooth and nail!  It is not eBay that would suffer from that, it would be the sellers... eBay gets their money whether an item sells or not. They get more of course, if an item sells ans even more, based on how much it sells for... roughly $10.. Paypal takes another 3-4%   If you randomly make it more difficult to accept bids, you are limiting my opportunity to make more on a piece...   I would stop selling...   Ebay and Paypal are already set up such that they go well above and beyond to protect the buyer, as they should, but offer little protection to the seller.   Especially Paypal! ask any seller who ever sold an item through Paypal.   Sean Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3932	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

BIG difference. The phone bids do not come in as the auctioneer is dropping the hammer. The bid is there for all to bid against if simply left, or announced if live and folks can bid against it. To have some bid come in, and be accepted, as the hammer drops, is not even close to reasonable. With the vagaries of slowness sometimes encounted in algores internet, that bid can come in, be accepted, bidding closes, before those doing it "live" even see it. You are confusing live phone bids with computer-generated last- second blockbusters. Dave > > I do not understand? > > What are you saying? > > So, the people who are giving the bids over phones should be disquallified as well? I see little difference... It is the same thing... They are paying for the service of a representative to take the call. > > Please provide an arguement with substance, not emotion... So far, I do not understand your point other than you are against it. Which is fine, for you. I do not know your circumstance, but for me, I have a full time job and two kids under the ages of 5. I spent the past two weeks building a huge jungle gym I purchased from Sam's Club. I am not able to be on eBay during most afternoons. Does that mean I am not permitted to bid? I know when I used to bid well before the last minute, I won the bid on less than 10% of what I bid on to those people who chose to sit and wait until the end, when I was not able to be at the computer. Sometimes, I was sickened by missing out on some of those items. > > So, what is fair? or so unfair about paying for a representative to cast my bid, if I so chose? > > If you were to ask the person selling the piece... I bet they would not have a different opinion than mine... I bet they would like the bid, no matter who places it. I know I do, when I sell. > > Sean > > > Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: > Outlaw or Ban........... > For the same reason you have given > > " It would be like the house actutions I have attended where the auctioneer > is bidding for himself as well. I leave those as soon as I see it > happening" > > Loren > > __________________________________________________________ > Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN > http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3933	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Sniping

"if you "sniped" the auction at the last minute without having bid the auction earlier, he would cancel your bid and not sell to you"   I have seen the simular comments, however they were directed to bidders with negative feedbacks or newbies.   As for doing something about it... there is little to nothing the seller can do, if they do not want to suffer from negative feedbacks themselves.   As long as they pay, it does not matter to me. I am honest in all of my dealings and i like to give people the benifit of the doubt, until proven otherwise.   Sean     Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3934	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Sean, eBAY is a money making machine. You can bet your last dollar that if it took such policies to stay a money making machine, it wouldn't matter what sellers thought or wanted. But because the sellers are the generators of the cash cow eBAY has, you are probably safe in the knowledge that they won't. Curm, I like the cut-off idea............. To bad eBAY won't institute it. Loren _________________________________________________________________ Don�t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3935	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

I guess I don't understand your statement about " Ask any seller who's ever sold throught Paypal " I have and have never had any problem, outside of the fact that they take a percentage on not only the auction bid, but the S&H costs as well. Apparently your experience is different? _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3936	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Ok, I will give you an example...   I myself have not had this happen to me, but I know two people who it has happened to...   I buyer buys an item... he paid for the item.... it was sent to the buyer... upon recieving the said item, the buyer either feeld remorse for how much he paid or has actually broken the item, or even say he comes back with saying he has not recieved his item... He files a complaint with Paypal... It is now the sellers responcibility to prove otherwise...   Case in point... a good friend of mine sold a 69 fastback mustang on ebay for about $5K. Tha buyer came up -- looked the car over and then paid him vis paypal. he came back, took the cat and then took it home - out of state... about two weeks went buy and then the buyer filed a claim for item signifacntly not as described... at that point my friend hd no car and no way to prove it was not as described.   Paypal gave the buyer his money back! My friend tried to get the car back, but was not able to locat it or the buyer...   That is my Point!  The seller has little protection... even if he is honest...     sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: I guess I don't understand your statement about " Ask any seller who's ever sold throught Paypal " I have and have never had any problem, outside of the fact that they take a percentage on not only the auction bid, but the S&H costs as well. Apparently your experience is different? ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps. live.com/ default.aspx? ss=Restaurants~ Hotels~Amusement %20Park&cp= 33.832922~ -117.915659& style=r&lvl= 13&tilt=- 90&dir=0& alt=-1000& scene=1118863& encType=1& FORM=MGAC01 You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3937	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Honestly, If you chose to not use ebay, it is fine with me...   I will gladdly still bve bidding.    If you do chose to use itt, but bid early, that is fine with me too...   I will gladdly still bve bidding AT THE END.   In my opinon... Normally, the first 3, 5, 7, or 10 days the auction is listed... the item is almost always idle and should be considered the advertisement period... it is only the last minute that any activity really begins... Therfore, there should be an advertisement period, and then a 1 minute windoe when bids are permitted. Then it would not matter if your bid is last.. it just better be highest!   Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Sean, eBAY is a money making machine. You can bet your last dollar that if it took such policies to stay a money making machine, it wouldn't matter what sellers thought or wanted. But because the sellers are the generators of the cash cow eBAY has, you are probably safe in the knowledge that they won't. Curm, I like the cut-off idea............. To bad eBAY won't institute it. Loren _________________________________________________________________ Don?t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3938	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Why would a seller who has a buyer present take paypal for a 5K car to begin with? I mean the paypal percentage hit alone would make that un-attractive, not to mention an out of state buyer???? That's a no brainer in my book...... guess it's the "vintage" age thingy..........:-) _________________________________________________________________ Don�t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3939	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

He no longer takes paypal...   There was no buyer present... he came and looked at the car.. then placed his bid... came the following week to pick it up...   if everyone had a buyer present... there would be no need for ebay!   The benifit of papal as a seller is the imediate use of the money. Otherwise... a check would take several days to clear..  the buyer usually wants it as soon as they pay...   I sold a 70 Mustanf last year through paypal... I set my reserve where I had no problem with tha additional ebay & Paypal fees. I still made $800 on the car after taking off $12,000 in parts.   For me... I will take the convience of paypal... it is a quicker turn-around for me..  It is a no brainer...   Cash... I will take it, but I will not mail it, so I would be forced to purchase money orders, which offer no buyer protection...  Now... let us see.. when can I get to the PO... I guess i have to make a special trip...   Checks .. I will take them too, but I can only deposit them on Fridays after 5:00 PM and they do not clear until the following Tues. or Wed. .. so I have to wait.   paypal... I have it as soon as it is sent... i can then use it as soon as I have it... I always sell so that i can buy more... I am given no allowance for the funding of my Train or Mustang habbit... it is strictly funded through the sales of my trains...   Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Why would a seller who has a buyer present take paypal for a 5K car to begin with? I mean the paypal percentage hit alone would make that un-attractive, not to mention an out of state buyer???? That's a no brainer in my book...... guess it's the "vintage" age thingy..........:-) _________________________________________________________________ Don?t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3940	From: donvdh	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, again

First - I am a sniper. Also, I get long-winded so if you get bored don't read this or need a cup of beverage do so now. Has no one in this growingly heated discussion ever been to a live auction where a  person who has remained perfectly silent at the point of the raised gavel at "going 3 times" raises his or her number card and bids? Watch Harrow's or a thorobred horse auction sale sometime. Disheartening to the usurped bidder, perhaps, but the bidding continues or the usurped bidder indicates a negative interest in registering an additional bid. Auctions, as far as I am concerned, are the venue for obtaining as much as you can for as little as you can. The difference on eBay, evilbay, or whatever you want to call it, is that it is electronic with no option of continuing beyond the well advertised ending time for any bidder. eBay doesn't bid for themselves to resell something at a higher profit. They are an open forum to hundreds of millions of people around the world. Anyone, anywhere, with access to electricity or batteries and a laptop can access eBay. eBay is simply a marketplace. Is there anyone on here who has not gone shopping for something and left one sales place for whatever you wish to buy because you considered it too expensive and gone to another? Does anyone buy the first car they look at without comparing prices at another car sales location, or another car at the same location and try to negotiate the best money deal they can? Isn't this a form of auction bargaining? Is that so different than bidding or not bidding. Is having someone at a clearance sale pick up the last piece of an item you wanted to buy so different? The line of discussion has diverged from the point of the argument. This is not about what eBay charges or doesn't charge. There isn't an auction in the world where the auctioneer doesn't get paid a percentage by the seller. Is there a successful retail seller\dealer of anything who doesn't take a percentage of the sale price as profit? If a last second bid is a problem to your preferences or integrity bid your target price and watch. If you don't have a target price and prefer to "slug it out" (thanks to John Barlow for that phrasing) go for it. If you want to watch the price and raises by other bidders before you enter your bid pop it in there whenever you're ready. The differences in the way we do things and the choices we make are what makes us humans and humanity. As I said yesterday only I can decide what the value of a particular piece is to me - trains, tools, or in whatever I'm particularly interested. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3941	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

You come up with another way to kill sniping. And, quit taking this personally. It isn't directed at you, none of it. You can do what you want, bid, snipe, paypal, whatever. I stated earlier once sniping came into play I was permanently gone. Statement of fact. I go to evilbay now solely for laughs after a hard day. I previous lives, I saw folks break up complete units (your choice of what) because the parts were worth more. That took complete units out of the marketplace. That alone should have driven me out, but sniping is what did make me decide never to darken their doorstep. So, quit taking it so personal, and best bet is to stop trying to defend yourself when nobody is picking on you. That's friendly advice. When the question hasn't been asked, don't volunteer the information. If you've ever been in a deposition, you'll understand. Dave > What? > > "If they were to be upstanding citizens, they would make random > cutoff dates and times that were not announced. > That would kill "sniping" permanently, but they won't. > > What does that mean? Random cut-off times? Un-announced? > > Yeah... if we lived in Russia! > > As a seller, I would fight this tooth and nail! It is not eBay that would suffer from that, it would be the sellers... eBay gets their money whether an item sells or not. They get more of course, if an item sells ans even more, based on how much it sells for... roughly $10.. Paypal takes another 3-4% > > If you randomly make it more difficult to accept bids, you are limiting my opportunity to make more on a piece... > > I would stop selling... > > Ebay and Paypal are already set up such that they go well above and beyond to protect the buyer, as they should, but offer little protection to the seller. > > Especially Paypal! ask any seller who ever sold an item through Paypal. > > Sean > > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3942	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

Don,   Well stated!   Sean donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: First - I am a sniper. Also, I get long-winded so if you get bored don't read this or need a cup of beverage do so now. Has no one in this growingly heated discussion ever been to a live auction where a  person who has remained perfectly silent at the point of the raised gavel at "going 3 times" raises his or her number card and bids? Watch Harrow's or a thorobred horse auction sale sometime. Disheartening to the usurped bidder, perhaps, but the bidding continues or the usurped bidder indicates a negative interest in registering an additional bid. Auctions, as far as I am concerned, are the venue for obtaining as much as you can for as little as you can. The difference on eBay, evilbay, or whatever you want to call it, is that it is electronic with no option of continuing beyond the well advertised ending time for any bidder. eBay doesn't bid for themselves to resell something at a higher profit. They are an open forum to hundreds of millions of people around the world. Anyone, anywhere, with access to electricity or batteries and a laptop can access eBay. eBay is simply a marketplace. Is there anyone on here who has not gone shopping for something and left one sales place for whatever you wish to buy because you considered it too expensive and gone to another? Does anyone buy the first car they look at without comparing prices at another car sales location, or another car at the same location and try to negotiate the best money deal they can? Isn't this a form of auction bargaining? Is that so different than bidding or not bidding. Is having someone at a clearance sale pick up the last piece of an item you wanted to buy so different? The line of discussion has diverged from the point of the argument. This is not about what eBay charges or doesn't charge. There isn't an auction in the world where the auctioneer doesn't get paid a percentage by the seller. Is there a successful retail seller\dealer of anything who doesn't take a percentage of the sale price as profit? If a last second bid is a problem to your preferences or integrity bid your target price and watch. If you don't have a target price and prefer to "slug it out" (thanks to John Barlow for that phrasing) go for it. If you want to watch the price and raises by other bidders before you enter your bid pop it in there whenever you're ready. The differences in the way we do things and the choices we make are what makes us humans and humanity. As I said yesterday only I can decide what the value of a particular piece is to me - trains, tools, or in whatever I'm particularly interested. Don V. Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3943	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Dave, Nothing personal taken  here....   Just a difference of opinion is all...   Honestly, I am not defending myself... I like the procedures the way they are now... as they say... If you can not beat them, join them... I got tired of being beat by the snipers, so I joined them...   If you ask my wife... I jus like to argue.. it is another one of my hobbies...   Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: You come up with another way to kill sniping. And, quit taking this personally. It isn't directed at you, none of it. You can do what you want, bid, snipe, paypal, whatever. I stated earlier once sniping came into play I was permanently gone. Statement of fact. I go to evilbay now solely for laughs after a hard day. I previous lives, I saw folks break up complete units (your choice of what) because the parts were worth more. That took complete units out of the marketplace. That alone should have driven me out, but sniping is what did make me decide never to darken their doorstep. So, quit taking it so personal, and best bet is to stop trying to defend yourself when nobody is picking on you. That's friendly advice. When the question hasn't been asked, don't volunteer the information. If you've ever been in a deposition, you'll understand. Dave > What? > > "If they were to be upstanding citizens, they would make random > cutoff dates and times that were not announced. > That would kill "sniping" permanently, but they won't. > > What does that mean? Random cut-off times? Un-announced? > > Yeah... if we lived in Russia! > > As a seller, I would fight this tooth and nail! It is not eBay that would suffer from that, it would be the sellers... eBay gets their money whether an item sells or not. They get more of course, if an item sells ans even more, based on how much it sells for... roughly $10.. Paypal takes another 3-4% > > If you randomly make it more difficult to accept bids, you are limiting my opportunity to make more on a piece... > > I would stop selling... > > Ebay and Paypal are already set up such that they go well above and beyond to protect the buyer, as they should, but offer little protection to the seller. > > Especially Paypal! ask any seller who ever sold an item through Paypal. > > Sean > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3944	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

Kind of like using bullets to dispel the crowd. Not liked, but effective..... Some will use and some won't based on their "human" makeup and who's to say which way is right? The one using??? Does anyone have any "vintage HO" MDC Gorre & Daphetid RR #5196 Overland Baggage Car Gorre & Daphetid RR #5197 Overland Combination Car Gorre & Daphetid RR #5198 Overland Passenger Car Gorre & Daphetid RR #5199 Overland Business Car they want to sell and aren't asking for an arm, leg or my first born for???? :-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ Don�t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3945	From: donvdh	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, again

I would have to guess, Loren, that would have to depend on the winner and the non-winner. Probably a distinct difference of opinions there. Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3946	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: eBay

OK, everybody's had their say. Some people like eBay, some hate it, whether you use it or not is up to you. Any further discussion on eBay in general is declared OFF TOPIC. Any specific item may still be discussed IF it's "vintage HO", but eBay and paypal policies in general belong on the eBay groups, not here. Thanks Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3947	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

You mean that stuff has value? I do. Short little cars, green if I recall. Not sure which, want I should check? Dave > > Kind of like using bullets to dispel the crowd. > Not liked, but effective..... > Some will use and some won't > based on their "human" makeup > and who's to say which way is right? > The one using??? > > Does anyone have any "vintage HO" MDC > > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5196 Overland Baggage Car > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5197 Overland Combination Car > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5198 Overland Passenger Car > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5199 Overland Business Car > > they want to sell and aren't asking for an arm, leg or my first born for???? > :-) > > Loren > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft > Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3948	From: donvdh	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Grateful appreciation.

Thank you, Don D. !!!!   Now, to repeat my appeal from yesterday if it was missed - Another pre-sale advertisement - NMRA Headquarters Express Train as discussed earlier this week and weekend.  I am going to sell a complete 1980 NMRA Headquarters Fund-Raising Passenger train - steam engine & tender runs, very good to excellent (no box, it was trashed, unfortunately) , and the 5 heavyweight passenger cars (brand new, unused, in extremely good condition original boxes). Anyone one interested please e-mail me directly - donvdh@cableone. net - with a new e-mail form. My provider's filter rejects second-hand or forwarded messages and I do not even get to see them. Also, if anyone happens to have a surplus 1985 NMRA 50th Anniversary Commemorative engine& tender or diesels (whichever came with it, I still have no clue on that) I am very interested and looking for the correct power issued with the set.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3949	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

curmudgeon wrote: > If they were to be upstanding citizens, they would make random > cutoff dates and times that were not announced. > That would kill "sniping" permanently, but they won't. Better, in my opinion, would be to increase the expiration time if any bids come in within XX minutes/seconds of the final moment to give chances for competing bids to be entered. This is more in line with live auctions. -- Rick Jones

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3950	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Some years back I was on the Coast Division, PCR Auction Committee. We had a silent/written bid auction for magazines and books--this was to close "somewhere around noon"--and would be announced at cut-off time--that took care of the "written sniping" we had as the committee enforced the close of bidding. ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment What?   "If they were to be upstanding citizens, they would make random cutoff dates and times that were not announced. That would kill "sniping" permanently, but they won't.   What does that mean?  Random cut-off times? Un-announced?   Yeah... if we lived in Russia!   As a seller, I would fight this tooth and nail!  It is not eBay that would suffer from that, it would be the sellers... eBay gets their money whether an item sells or not. They get more of course, if an item sells ans even more, based on how much it sells for... roughly $10.. Paypal takes another 3-4%   If you randomly make it more difficult to accept bids, you are limiting my opportunity to make more on a piece...   I would stop selling...   Ebay and Paypal are already set up such that they go well above and beyond to protect the buyer, as they should, but offer little protection to the seller.   Especially Paypal! ask any seller who ever sold an item through Paypal.   Sean Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3951	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

I recall someone trying a competing auction service with a provision that would take care of the sniping.  If a last-second bid came in, the closing time was automatically extended something like five minutes--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:34 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment BIG difference. The phone bids do not come in as the auctioneer is dropping the hammer. The bid is there for all to bid against if simply left, or announced if live and folks can bid against it. To have some bid come in, and be accepted, as the hammer drops, is not even close to reasonable. With the vagaries of slowness sometimes encounted in algores internet, that bid can come in, be accepted, bidding closes, before those doing it "live" even see it. You are confusing live phone bids with computer-generated last- second blockbusters. Dave > > I do not understand? > > What are you saying? > > So, the people who are giving the bids over phones should be disquallified as well? I see little difference.. . It is the same thing... They are paying for the service of a representative to take the call. > > Please provide an arguement with substance, not emotion... So far, I do not understand your point other than you are against it. Which is fine, for you. I do not know your circumstance, but for me, I have a full time job and two kids under the ages of 5. I spent the past two weeks building a huge jungle gym I purchased from Sam's Club. I am not able to be on eBay during most afternoons. Does that mean I am not permitted to bid? I know when I used to bid well before the last minute, I won the bid on less than 10% of what I bid on to those people who chose to sit and wait until the end, when I was not able to be at the computer. Sometimes, I was sickened by missing out on some of those items. > > So, what is fair? or so unfair about paying for a representative to cast my bid, if I so chose? > > If you were to ask the person selling the piece... I bet they would not have a different opinion than mine... I bet they would like the bid, no matter who places it. I know I do, when I sell. > > Sean > > > Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ ...> wrote: > Outlaw or Ban......... .. > For the same reason you have given > > " It would be like the house actutions I have attended where the auctioneer > is bidding for himself as well. I leave those as soon as I see it > happening" > > Loren > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN > http://liveearth. msn.com?source= msntaglineliveea rthhm > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3952	From: Scott	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

Just my two cents, but if I have to wait til the last few seconds to bid on something that will almost ensure I'll get it, then so be it. Putting a bid up at the beginning of an auction is useless. Wait til the end and put your bid in, it works alot better. I'm not going to waste time getting into a bidding war with one or several people over the duration of the auction. Works for me, not really interested in who thinks it's wrong or right. There is NO wrong or right way to do folks.   Again, just my two cents... Scott   On 6/12/07, Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Kind of like using bullets to dispel the crowd. Not liked, but effective..... Some will use and some won't based on their "human" makeup and who's to say which way is right? The one using??? Does anyone have any "vintage HO" MDC Gorre & Daphetid RR #5196 Overland Baggage Car Gorre & Daphetid RR #5197 Overland Combination Car Gorre & Daphetid RR #5198 Overland Passenger Car Gorre & Daphetid RR #5199 Overland Business Car they want to sell and aren't asking for an arm, leg or my first born for???? :-) Loren _________________________________________________________________ Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    mailto: vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3953	From: Scott	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: eBay

Amen....   Scott   On 6/12/07, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: OK, everybody's had their say. Some people like eBay, some hate it, whether you use it or not is up to you. Any further discussion on eBay in general is declared OFF TOPIC. Any specific item may still be discussed IF it's "vintage HO", but eBay and paypal policies in general belong on the eBay groups, not here. Thanks Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3954	From: Scott	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

And having been on both sides of that spectrum, I'd rather "snipe" at the last second.   Scott   On 6/12/07, donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: I would have to guess, Loren, that would have to depend on the winner and the non-winner. Probably a distinct difference of opinions there. Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3955	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

Have...... Yes...... Will sell........ No!!! But you have me thinking it would be nice to have decal sets to make more of those cars. After-all....... We don't have to stick to just the MDC versions of G&D passenger cars.... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jun 12, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Salt&Pepper Whoknows wrote: > Kind of like using bullets to dispel the crowd. > Not liked, but effective..... > Some will use and some won't > based on their "human" makeup > and who's to say which way is right? > The one using??? > > Does anyone have any "vintage HO" MDC > > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5196 Overland Baggage Car > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5197 Overland Combination Car > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5198 Overland Passenger Car > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5199 Overland Business Car > > they want to sell and aren't asking for an arm, leg or my first > born for???? > :-) > > Loren

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3956	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

I guess someone doesn't check e-mails......... I'll just repaint them......... > Have...... Yes...... > > Will sell........ No!!! > > But you have me thinking it would be nice to have decal sets to make > more of those cars. > > After-all....... We don't have to stick to just the MDC versions of > G&D passenger cars.... > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Jun 12, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Salt&Pepper Whoknows wrote: > > > Kind of like using bullets to dispel the crowd. > > Not liked, but effective..... > > Some will use and some won't > > based on their "human" makeup > > and who's to say which way is right? > > The one using??? > > > > Does anyone have any "vintage HO" MDC > > > > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5196 Overland Baggage Car > > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5197 Overland Combination Car > > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5198 Overland Passenger Car > > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5199 Overland Business Car > > > > they want to sell and aren't asking for an arm, leg or my first > > born for???? > > :-) > > > > Loren >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3957	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

Actually the one I saw that prompted the question............ #300118617323 - Mousebelly #300118617328 - Eagle Nest #300118617333 - Mt. Alexander #300118617340 - Great Divide Are all red & black and end within an hour or so. Loren _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3958	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

Huh???? Was that directed to me Crum? _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3959	From: Scott	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

How did this thread start anyway???   Scott   On 6/12/07, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: curmudgeon wrote: > If they were to be upstanding citizens, they would make random > cutoff dates and times that were not announced. > That would kill "sniping" permanently, but they won't. Better, in my opinion, would be to increase the expiration time if any bids come in within XX minutes/seconds of the final moment to give chances for competing bids to be entered. This is more in line with live auctions. -- Rick Jones

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3960	From: donvdh	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Earlier growingly heated discussion - Don Dellman said "Cut out all eBay\Paypal debate - It doesn't belong on this chat group". Don V ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment How did this thread start anyway???   Scott   On 6/12/07, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@sbcglobal .net> wrote: curmudgeon wrote: > If they were to be upstanding citizens, they would make random > cutoff dates and times that were not announced. > That would kill "sniping" permanently, but they won't. Better, in my opinion, would be to increase the expiration time if any bids come in within XX minutes/seconds of the final moment to give chances for competing bids to be entered. This is more in line with live auctions. -- Rick Jones

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3961	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

I fired you off an e-mail about these G&D cars...... I figgered that would get your attention! Want me to send again? Dave > > Huh???? > > Was that directed to me Crum? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. > http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement% 20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=- 1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3962	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

>----- Original Message ----- >From: Scott >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 5:55 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment >How did this thread start anyway??? >Scott An eBay auction for a Lionel HO promotional piece that went for a ridiculous (5 figure) price. Anyway, the thread is over. Anymore off topic posts, the posters will be put back on moderation. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3963	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment

Actually, I do not see where eBay would promote "sniping" at all. The whole point of sniping is to avoid the emotional bidder who actually set the bid too low, hoping for a steal. When a "real" bidder with a reasonable high bid comes in, the emotion comes into play and the original bidder does not want to be outdone and will continue to bid multiple times and the bids get way out of proportion. If you wait to bid at the last minute, you will get to see if the item is beyond your price already or you can safely put in your HIGHEST bid and be pretty sure you skirted the "emotional" bidder. I suspect eBay loves the "emotional" bidders, because they get more money, as do the sellers. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Totally absurd...minus enjoyment Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:07:16 -0700 (PDT) I do not understand? What are you saying? So, the people who are giving the bids over phones should be disquallified as well? I see little difference... It is the same thing... They are paying for the service of a representative to take the call. Please provide an arguement with substance, not emotion... So far, I do not understand your point other than you are against it. Which is fine, for you. I do not know your circumstance, but for me, I have a full time job and two kids under the ages of 5. I spent the past two weeks building a huge jungle gym I purchased from Sam's Club. I am not able to be on eBay during most afternoons. Does that mean I am not permitted to bid? I know when I used to bid well before the last minute, I won the bid on less than 10% of what I bid on to those people who chose to sit and wait until the end, when I was not able to be at the computer. Sometimes, I was sickened by missing out on some of those items. So, what is fair? or so unfair about paying for a representative to cast my bid, if I so chose? If you were to ask the person selling the piece... I bet they would not have a different opinion than mine... I bet they would like the bid, no matter who places it. I know I do, when I sell. Sean Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote: Outlaw or Ban........... For the same reason you have given " It would be like the house actutions I have attended where the auctioneer is bidding for himself as well. I leave those as soon as I see it happening" Loren __________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm --------------------------------- Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine�s 2007 editors� choice for best Web mail�award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3964	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment HAS BEEN DECLARED OFF-TOPIC!

Hey Guys!   Please please teke no offence by this, but...   Our VintageHO creator and Moderator god Don has spoken...   Any further discussion of eBay, Paypal and sniping and or bidding processes or our beliefs and feelings on such subjects has been declared off-topic for this group. I myself have been compelled to comment further on the additional coments added, but I fell stronger about respecting Don's wishes.   As for me, I would be happy to further entertain discussions of-line directly to my email. However, I have pretty much said all I believe to be neccessary.   Thanks, Sean Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3965	From: Scott	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment HAS BEEN DECLARED OFF-TOPIC!

Amen...it's mute issue... Let's move on fellas.   Scott   On 6/13/07, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hey Guys!   Please please teke no offence by this, but...   Our VintageHO creator and Moderator god Don has spoken...   Any further discussion of eBay, Paypal and sniping and or bidding processes or our beliefs and feelings on such subjects has been declared off-topic for this group. I myself have been compelled to comment further on the additional coments added, but I fell stronger about respecting Don's wishes.   As for me, I would be happy to further entertain discussions of-line directly to my email. However, I have pretty much said all I believe to be neccessary.   Thanks, Sean Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3966	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Totally absurd...BUT THIS HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED OFF-TOPIC!

What about e-pal and PayBay? Those rotten scoundrels...... Did you see the 1928 Porter automobile some guy is trying to sell? Claims it's his mother. She decided she'd come back....as a car. Some guy named VanDyck or some such. Now, if it was a 1927 Star, or even a Hupmobile....... > > Hey Guys! > > Please please teke no offence by this, but... > > Our VintageHO creator and Moderator god Don has spoken... > > Any further discussion of eBay, Paypal and sniping and or bidding processes or our beliefs and feelings on such subjects has been declared off-topic for this group. I myself have been compelled to comment further on the additional coments added, but I fell stronger about respecting Don's wishes. > > As for me, I would be happy to further entertain discussions of- line directly to my email. However, I have pretty much said all I believe to be neccessary. > > Thanks, > Sean > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3967	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag

I think that there were two series of passenger cars--the "Overland" series were red and 50 ft cars, the "Overtons" were shorties based on the Sierra combine #5 and coach #6, green, and also had a baggage can business car, plus a "drovers' caboose which substituted a roof with cupola on a combine.  Got both sets somewhere. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, again Have...... Yes...... Will sell........ No!!! But you have me thinking it would be nice to have decal sets to make more of those cars. After-all... .... We don't have to stick to just the MDC versions of G&D passenger cars.... Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Jun 12, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Salt&Pepper Whoknows wrote: > Kind of like using bullets to dispel the crowd. > Not liked, but effective... .. > Some will use and some won't > based on their "human" makeup > and who's to say which way is right? > The one using??? > > Does anyone have any "vintage HO" MDC > > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5196 Overland Baggage Car > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5197 Overland Combination Car > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5198 Overland Passenger Car > Gorre & Daphetid RR #5199 Overland Business Car > > they want to sell and aren't asking for an arm, leg or my first > born for???? > :-) > > Loren

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3968	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: New adds

Attachments : Got 2 more on the layout tonight. First, the Varney F-3 on the Penn Line frame I was talking about last week, second, you may recall I was looking for a Hobbytown Alco plastic cab a while back? Well, I found it, so here's the infamous Hobbytown plastic RS-3. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3969	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Is Mom's battery OK ?

I love it ! Is he from Palo Alto ? [no offense to anyone normal living there !] There have been a lot of Varney Ford F1 pickups lately on the eeek bay tho ! HH curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: What about e-pal and PayBay? Those rotten scoundrels.. .... Did you see the 1928 Porter automobile some guy is trying to sell? Claims it's his mother. She decided she'd come back....as a car. Some guy named VanDyck or some such. Now, if it was a 1927 Star, or even a Hupmobile... .... > > Hey Guys! > > Please please teke no offence by this, but... > > Our VintageHO creator and Moderator god Don has spoken... > > Any further discussion of eBay, Paypal and sniping and or bidding processes or our beliefs and feelings on such subjects has been declared off-topic for this group. I myself have been compelled to comment further on the additional coments added, but I fell stronger about respecting Don's wishes. > > As for me, I would be happy to further entertain discussions of- line directly to my email. However, I have pretty much said all I believe to be neccessary. > > Thanks, > Sean > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3970	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Is Mom's battery OK ?

Ah, but I HAVE an F-1.......and a Varney....does that count? Also, how does Mom fare with temporary anti-freeze? Dave > I love it ! Is he from Palo Alto ? [no offense to anyone normal living there !] There have been a lot of Varney Ford F1 pickups lately on the eeek bay tho ! HH > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: What about e-pal and PayBay? > Those rotten scoundrels...... > > Did you see the 1928 Porter automobile some guy is trying to sell? > Claims it's his mother. > She decided she'd come back....as a car. > Some guy named VanDyck or some such. > > Now, if it was a 1927 Star, or even a Hupmobile....... > > > > > Hey Guys! > > > > Please please teke no offence by this, but... > > > > Our VintageHO creator and Moderator god Don has spoken... > > > > Any further discussion of eBay, Paypal and sniping and or > bidding processes or our beliefs and feelings on such subjects has > been declared off-topic for this group. I myself have been compelled > to comment further on the additional coments added, but I fell > stronger about respecting Don's wishes. > > > > As for me, I would be happy to further entertain discussions of- > line directly to my email. However, I have pretty much said all I > believe to be neccessary. > > > > Thanks, > > Sean > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! > Travel. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3971	From: dadof4children2007	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Ambroid Kit

I recently have aquired a "Ambroid" wood model of "Great Northern Refrigerator. Unfortunatly I have no instructions for this kit. Does anyone know where I might find instructions? Thanks in advance Scott

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3972	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit

Do these help? http://hoseeker.net/ambroid/ambroidoutsidebracedreeferpg1.jpg http://hoseeker.net/ambroid/ambroidoutsidebracedreeferpg2.jpg Dave > > I recently have aquired a "Ambroid" wood model of "Great Northern > Refrigerator. Unfortunatly I have no instructions for this kit. Does > anyone know where I might find instructions? > Thanks in advance > Scott >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3973	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

The Varney F3 looks pretty good. Were there any "zamac cancer" places on it. I have one that took me a very long time to clean up. It has a couple of spots that will need some putty, but the zamac seems very good. But, I think it is safe to detail, paint, and decal. I put mine on top of a Hobbytown drive. BTW, did anyone ever find a source for the number boards? Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [vintageHO] New adds Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:35:53 -0600 Got 2 more on the layout tonight. First, the Varney F-3 on the Penn Line frame I was talking about last week, second, you may recall I was looking for a Hobbytown Alco plastic cab a while back? Well, I found it, so here's the infamous Hobbytown plastic RS-3. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY << MNR206.jpg >> << MNR152.jpg >> _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine�s 2007 editors� choice for best Web mail�award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3974	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit

If you would like, I can scan them and send them to your email. It would be about 4 files or so. Let me know and I should be able to get them to you sometime this weekend. I assume you are referring to the Express Reefer. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "dadof4children2007" <dadof4children2007@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Kit Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:48:03 -0000 I recently have aquired a "Ambroid" wood model of "Great Northern Refrigerator. Unfortunatly I have no instructions for this kit. Does anyone know where I might find instructions? Thanks in advance Scott _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3975	From: dadof4children2007	Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit

I will take a look; thanks Scott - -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Do these help? > http://hoseeker.net/ambroid/ambroidoutsidebracedreeferpg1.jpg > http://hoseeker.net/ambroid/ambroidoutsidebracedreeferpg2.jpg > Dave > > > > > > I recently have aquired a "Ambroid" wood model of "Great Northern > > Refrigerator. Unfortunatly I have no instructions for this kit. > Does > > anyone know where I might find instructions? > > Thanks in advance > > Scott > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3976	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] New adds > The Varney F3 looks pretty good. Were there any "zamac cancer" places on > it. I have one that took me a very long time to clean up. It has a > couple > of spots that will need some putty, but the zamac seems very good. But, I > think it is safe to detail, paint, and decal. I put mine on top of a > Hobbytown drive. BTW, did anyone ever find a source for the number > boards? > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC The Varney was a plastic shell. As far as the number boards on the Alco, I know Kemtron USED to make them, maybe precision scale? Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3977	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

Attachments : I have a number of Varney cast F 3's, A's and B's.... new and used. Basic power was a Pittman DC 60 motor mounted horizontally over a cast gear box truck. Transmission of power was via a spring belt over pulleys. Both axles were geared. The lead truck was not powered on either unit and many B units were sold, unpowered. Enterprising owners desiring more 'horsepower' could add a second power truck to an already powered B unit, thus improving drawbar pulling power. Various improvements followed which included triple pulleys of differing sizes on both the motor shaft and on the gear shaft in the cast truck. This allowed for three variable speeds at the option of the owner. The DC 60 motor gave way to larger improved motors and gears on the motor and gear shafts replaced the pulleys. Ultimately, the A and B unit cast bodies gave way to plastic, still from the F 3 moulds though. The weight of these cast units, assured pulling power for long trains. Plastic covered wagons did not equal the tractive effort of the cast metal car bodies of the earlier Varney F 3's. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3978	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

Numberboards:  Details West EMD F units  #235-165;  for an Alco switcher Details West #235-156.  Cal Scale also makes early F units with marker lights incorporated-#190-416.  Get ‘em at Walthers or Caboose Hobbies.  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 6:24 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New adds   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] New adds > The Varney F3 looks pretty good. Were there any "zamac cancer" places on > it. I have one that took me a very long time to clean up. It has a > couple > of spots that will need some putty, but the zamac seems very good. But, I > think it is safe to detail, paint, and decal. I put mine on top of a > Hobbytown drive. BTW, did anyone ever find a source for the number > boards? > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC The Varney was a plastic shell. As far as the number boards on the Alco, I know Kemtron USED to make them, maybe precision scale? Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3979	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

I have a couple of Varney diecast F’s (bought unpowered)-I modified Athearn F chassis-super powered with weight-and installed them. These dudes will drag 40 cars (each) with no effort at about ¼ amp. Not exactly vintage restoration-but they will run reliably and behave very well at shows. . . .     JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DLeistikow@... Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:21 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New adds   I have a number of Varney cast F 3's, A's and B's.... new and used. Basic power was a Pittman DC 60 motor mounted horizontally over a cast gear box truck. Transmission of power was via a spring belt over pulleys. Both axles were geared. The lead truck was not powered on either unit and many B units were sold, unpowered. Enterprising owners desiring more 'horsepower' could add a second power truck to an already powered B unit, thus improving drawbar pulling power. Various improvements followed which included triple pulleys of differing sizes on both the motor shaft and on the gear shaft in the cast truck. This allowed for three variable speeds at the option of the owner. The DC 60 motor gave way to larger improved motors and gears on the motor and gear shafts replaced the pulleys. Ultimately, the A and B unit cast bodies gave way to plastic, still from the F 3 moulds though. The weight of these cast units, assured pulling power for long trains. Plastic covered wagons did not equal the tractive effort of the cast metal car bodies of the earlier Varney F 3's. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3980	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds - F3s

Interesting method of repower... I have a stash of about 8-10 or more A&B's Powered & Dummy (mostly cast with 1-2 w/ plastic shells) sitting in a huge pile on my desk waiting for me to list...   New Haven never had an F3, so I have not yet done anything with them yet... Sean Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...> wrote: I have a couple of Varney diecast F’s (bought unpowered)-I modified Athearn F chassis-super powered with weight-and installed them. These dudes will drag 40 cars (each) with no effort at about ? amp. Not exactly vintage restoration- but they will run reliably and behave very well at shows. . . .???? JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of DLeistikow@webtv. net Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:21 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New adds I have a number of Varney cast F 3's, A's and B's.... new and used. Basic power was a Pittman DC 60 motor mounted horizontally over a cast gear box truck. Transmission of power was via a spring belt over pulleys. Both axles were geared. The lead truck was not powered on either unit and many B units were sold, unpowered. Enterprising owners desiring more 'horsepower' could add a second power truck to an already powered B unit, thus improving drawbar pulling power. Various improvements followed which included triple pulleys of differing sizes on both the motor shaft and on the gear shaft in the cast truck. This allowed for three variable speeds at the option of the owner. The DC 60 motor gave way to larger improved motors and gears on the motor and gear shafts replaced the pulleys. Ultimately, the A and B unit cast bodies gave way to plastic, still from the F 3 moulds though. The weight of these cast units, assured pulling power for long trains. Plastic covered wagons did not equal the tractive effort of the cast metal car bodies of the earlier Varney F 3's. Don L. Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3981	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds - F3s

Without being out of line , my Athearns were tonnage kings . It took twice as many Atlas to equal their performance . Hobbytowns would be close [with Cary shells] . HH--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Interesting method of repower... I have a stash of about 8-10 or more A&B's Powered & Dummy (mostly cast with 1-2 w/ plastic shells) sitting in a huge pile on my desk waiting for me to list... > > New Haven never had an F3, so I have not yet done anything with them yet... > Sean > > Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...> wrote: > I have a couple of Varney diecast F’s (bought unpowered)-I modified Athearn F chassis-super powered with weight-and installed them. These dudes will drag 40 cars (each) with no effort at about ? amp. Not exactly vintage restoration-but they will run reliably and behave very well at shows. . . .???? JerryG > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DLeistikow@... > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:21 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New adds > > > > I have a number of Varney cast F 3's, A's and B's.... new and used. > > Basic power was a Pittman DC 60 motor mounted horizontally over a cast > gear box truck. Transmission of power was via a spring belt over > pulleys. Both axles were geared. The lead truck was not powered on > either unit and many B units were sold, unpowered. Enterprising owners > desiring more 'horsepower' could add a second power truck to an already > powered B unit, thus improving drawbar pulling power. > > Various improvements followed which included triple pulleys of differing > sizes on both the motor shaft and on the gear shaft in the cast truck. > This allowed for three variable speeds at the option of the owner. The > DC 60 motor gave way to larger improved motors and gears on the motor > and gear shafts replaced the pulleys. > > Ultimately, the A and B unit cast bodies gave way to plastic, still from > the F 3 moulds though. The weight of these cast units, assured pulling > power for long trains. Plastic covered wagons did not equal the > tractive effort of the cast metal car bodies of the earlier Varney F > 3's. > > Don L. > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3982	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds - F3s

----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Hultgren" <long95209@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New adds - F3s Without being out of line , my Athearns were tonnage kings . It took twice as many Atlas to equal their performance . Hobbytowns would be close [with Cary shells] . HH--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Interesting method of repower... I have a stash of about 8-10 or more A&B's Powered & Dummy (mostly cast with 1-2 w/ plastic shells) sitting in a huge pile on my desk waiting for me to list... > > New Haven never had an F3, so I have not yet done anything with them yet... > Sean Best one I ever had was back when I had a short fling modelling "continental" prototype. (This was ca. 1976 or so). I had a Fleischmann German E-10 electric. One of the guys in our club had a Hobbytown Multi-drive A-B with Cary FT shells. One night we had a "pull off", coupling the two engines back to back right at a block junction (this was pre DCC days) so we could have them on separate cabs for a "tug of war". I WON! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3983	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

If we could just get the old Scalelite boards--or a similar one cast in clear plastic-- (I have a Scalelite Mars Light unit I'll put in my remaining cast F-3)--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Garteiser To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:19 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] New adds Numberboards:  Details West EMD F units  #235-165;  for an Alco switcher Details West #235-156.  Cal Scale also makes early F units with marker lights incorporated- #190-416.  Get ‘em at Walthers or Caboose Hobbies.  JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 6:24 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New adds ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] New adds > The Varney F3 looks pretty good. Were there any "zamac cancer" places on > it. I have one that took me a very long time to clean up. It has a > couple > of spots that will need some putty, but the zamac seems very good. But, I > think it is safe to detail, paint, and decal. I put mine on top of a > Hobbytown drive. BTW, did anyone ever find a source for the number > boards? > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC The Varney was a plastic shell. As far as the number boards on the Alco, I know Kemtron USED to make them, maybe precision scale? Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3984	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

I have two four-unit (ABBA) sets--the lead A & B are die cast with Hobbytown Multi-Drive units, the trailing B & A are plastic.  I'm still looking for another plastic F3B--have a couple of plastic A shells surplus-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Garteiser To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:28 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] New adds I have a couple of Varney diecast F’s (bought unpowered)-I modified Athearn F chassis-super powered with weight-and installed them. These dudes will drag 40 cars (each) with no effort at about ¼ amp. Not exactly vintage restoration- but they will run reliably and behave very well at shows. . . .     JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of DLeistikow@webtv. net Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:21 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New adds I have a number of Varney cast F 3's, A's and B's.... new and used. Basic power was a Pittman DC 60 motor mounted horizontally over a cast gear box truck. Transmission of power was via a spring belt over pulleys. Both axles were geared. The lead truck was not powered on either unit and many B units were sold, unpowered. Enterprising owners desiring more 'horsepower' could add a second power truck to an already powered B unit, thus improving drawbar pulling power. Various improvements followed which included triple pulleys of differing sizes on both the motor shaft and on the gear shaft in the cast truck. This allowed for three variable speeds at the option of the owner. The DC 60 motor gave way to larger improved motors and gears on the motor and gear shafts replaced the pulleys. Ultimately, the A and B unit cast bodies gave way to plastic, still from the F 3 moulds though. The weight of these cast units, assured pulling power for long trains. Plastic covered wagons did not equal the tractive effort of the cast metal car bodies of the earlier Varney F 3's. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3985	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

i think I have one of those B's.......... I'll take a look tomorrow..  On Jun 15, 2007, at 7:42 PM, Glenn476 wrote: I have two four-unit (ABBA) sets--the lead A & B are die cast with Hobbytown Multi-Drive units, the trailing B & A are plastic.  I'm still looking for another plastic F3B--have a couple of plastic A shells surplus-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Garteiser To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:28 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] New adds I have a couple of Varney diecast F’s (bought unpowered)-I modified Athearn F chassis-super powered with weight-and installed them. These dudes will drag 40 cars (each) with no effort at about ¼ amp. Not exactly vintage restoration- but they will run reliably and behave very well at shows. . . .     JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of DLeistikow@webtv. net Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:21 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New adds I have a number of Varney cast F 3's, A's and B's.... new and used. Basic power was a Pittman DC 60 motor mounted horizontally over a cast gear box truck. Transmission of power was via a spring belt over pulleys. Both axles were geared. The lead truck was not powered on either unit and many B units were sold, unpowered. Enterprising owners desiring more 'horsepower' could add a second power truck to an already powered B unit, thus improving drawbar pulling power. Various improvements followed which included triple pulleys of differing sizes on both the motor shaft and on the gear shaft in the cast truck. This allowed for three variable speeds at the option of the owner. The DC 60 motor gave way to larger improved motors and gears on the motor and gear shafts replaced the pulleys. Ultimately, the A and B unit cast bodies gave way to plastic, still from the F 3 moulds though. The weight of these cast units, assured pulling power for long trains. Plastic covered wagons did not equal the tractive effort of the cast metal car bodies of the earlier Varney F 3's.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3986	From: James E Crowell, BSc, MEd	Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89

I have one Globe F7A with the box in excellent condition. I have the Globe F7B without the box. Both diesels are in perfect condition. They are gold in color. There are no motors inside. The trucks are free-wheeling like a box car would be. There are couplers that look similar to KD, but not KD. I believe that these molds are what Athearn used to produce their F7s. Any idea on what these are worth? Thanks, Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3987	From: rob wiggins	Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89

i bought an powerd a and an dummy b for 25.00 for the set. "James E Crowell, BSc, MEd" <kool57@...> wrote: I have one Globe F7A with the box in excellent condition. I have the Globe F7B without the box. Both diesels are in perfect condition. They are gold in color. There are no motors inside. The trucks are free-wheeling like a box car would be. There are couplers that look similar to KD, but not KD. I believe that these molds are what Athearn used to produce their F7s. Any idea on what these are worth? Thanks, Jim Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3988	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89

The Globe Undecs came in Gold, Silver, and Clear. I have never seen a B unit in clear, though... The Golds are the most common, followed by the Silvers... with the Clears being the most hard to find. The Globes were sold by Athearn as Globes at first, then later produced under the Athearn name. I think that Athearn bought the dies at an auction or was offered them by the owners... don't know the whole story. That Athearn F7 that you can buy today is a direct descendant of that original Globe shell. As far as price... Well, not going to nab you anywhere near 22,000 dollars. I have seen them go for anywhere as low as 1.00, or has high as about 25.00 each... condition having nothing to do with it. The decorated kits seem to go for a bit more as they are actually harder to find. Especially certain roadnames. There are some small differences between the original Globe F shells and the later produced Athearn ones. The most noticeable one is the Numberboards being separate pieces on the Globes. Athearn produced a gear drive for the Globes, both single and dual powered, which is not too hard to find. Other companies produced aftermarket drives as well... including Hobbytown, Lindsay, and Kemtron... as the Globes were sold as plastic kits only. I'll take some Gruff for this, I know... but I consider the early plastic GP9 kits to be Globes as well. Sold as kits with plastic frames, and the same dummy trucks as the Globes... they also were powered for a bit with the same early gear drive as the Athearn produced Globes. You can find some pictures of some of these items in the photo section of the Vintage HO site... under, I think, Athearn/Globe/Hi F Drives by stephenlengal AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3989	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89

----- Original Message ----- From: "James E Crowell, BSc, MEd" <kool57@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 6:33 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89 >I have one Globe F7A with the box in excellent condition. I have the > Globe F7B without the box. > > Both diesels are in perfect condition. They are gold in color. There > are no motors inside. The trucks are free-wheeling like a box car > would be. There are couplers that look similar to KD, but not KD. I > believe that these molds are what Athearn used to produce their F7s. > > Any idea on what these are worth? > > Thanks, > Jim They're worth whatever you can get someone to pay for them. :-) They're actually fairly common, they sold new for 98 cents each. Being unpowered, I've seen them sell for anywhere from abuck or two to maybe twenty bucks for one with the box, with the average seeming to be in the 5-10 dollar range. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3990	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89

In my opinion the "Globe" drive was one of the best HO diesel drives ever made--all die cast, with oilite bearings--I had one for an F-7--when the GP-9 came out I got a zamak frame and transplanted the drive to the Geep.  ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89 The Globe Undecs came in Gold, Silver, and Clear. I have never seen a B unit in clear, though... The Golds are the most common, followed by the Silvers... with the Clears being the most hard to find. The Globes were sold by Athearn as Globes at first, then later produced under the Athearn name. I think that Athearn bought the dies at an auction or was offered them by the owners... don't know the whole story. That Athearn F7 that you can buy today is a direct descendant of that original Globe shell. As far as price... Well, not going to nab you anywhere near 22,000 dollars. I have seen them go for anywhere as low as 1.00, or has high as about 25.00 each... condition having nothing to do with it. The decorated kits seem to go for a bit more as they are actually harder to find. Especially certain roadnames. There are some small differences between the original Globe F shells and the later produced Athearn ones. The most noticeable one is the Numberboards being separate pieces on the Globes. Athearn produced a gear drive for the Globes, both single and dual powered, which is not too hard to find. Other companies produced aftermarket drives as well... including Hobbytown, Lindsay, and Kemtron... as the Globes were sold as plastic kits only. I'll take some Gruff for this, I know... but I consider the early plastic GP9 kits to be Globes as well. Sold as kits with plastic frames, and the same dummy trucks as the Globes... they also were powered for a bit with the same early gear drive as the Athearn produced Globes. You can find some pictures of some of these items in the photo section of the Vintage HO site... under, I think, Athearn/Globe/ Hi F Drives by stephenlengal AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3991	From: James E Crowell, BSc, MEd	Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Globe gold locos

Thanks to all who responded to my query. I'm going to frame them and put them on the wall along with the box. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3992	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Varney Ostuco

Attachments : Latest eBay treasure, pretty nice missing one coupler cover, with box. Would KD 4's be the best choice for couplers? Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3993	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney Ostuco

probably--that was a near-standard pocket  back then.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: VINTAGE H-0 Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:55 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Ostuco Latest eBay treasure, pretty nice missing one coupler cover, with box. Would KD 4's be the best choice for couplers? Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3994	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney Ostuco

----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> To: "VINTAGE H-0" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Ostuco > Latest eBay treasure, pretty nice missing one coupler cover, with box. > Would KD 4's be the best choice for couplers? Roger Aultman > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links VERY Nice. I'll bring mine to trainfest and we can run them as a pair. As far as couplers, the quick and easy way I've had good luck with is using a number 5's, but using the BOTTOM plate (with the boss) upside down as a cover. I used to just file the edges of the plate so it fit down snugly between the sides of the Varney pocket and gluing it in. lately I've decided a more elgant and more reliable way is to cut the varney boss off, and drill and tap either 1:72 or 2:56, and screw the plate on. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3995	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney Ostuco

Your method is interesting, will take a look at the possibilities.  See You at Trainfest.   Roger       ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Ostuco ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> To: "VINTAGE H-0" <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Ostuco > Latest eBay treasure, pretty nice missing one coupler cover, with box. > Would KD 4's be the best choice for couplers? Roger Aultman > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links VERY Nice. I'll bring mine to trainfest and we can run them as a pair. As far as couplers, the quick and easy way I've had good luck with is using a number 5's, but using the BOTTOM plate (with the boss) upside down as a cover. I used to just file the edges of the plate so it fit down snugly between the sides of the Varney pocket and gluing it in. lately I've decided a more elgant and more reliable way is to cut the varney boss off, and drill and tap either 1:72 or 2:56, and screw the plate on. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3996	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Fwd: : Stroke

Attachments : Note: forwarded message attached. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3997	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: : Stroke

Raymond Lorts Sr wrote: > ** > Subject: STROKE:remember the 1st 3 letters...S.T.R. > *STROKE:** Remember The 1st Three Letters...** S.T.R.* > *My friend sent this to me and encouraged me to post it and spread the > word. I agree. If everyone can remember something this simple, we could > save some folks. Seriously.. Please read:* Though it reads like so many Internet myths get forwarded around and around, Snopes verifies this one as being factual and good advice. http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/stroke.asp -- Rick Jones No wanna work! Wanna play with choo-choo!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3998	From: donvdh	Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Zamac

In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone tell me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part what is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 3999	From: rob wiggins	Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

A. Zamac- is a zinc/aluminum alloy that contains approximately 27% aluminum. This is a newer material that is stronger and harder than the traditional zinc alloys used for casting. rob donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone tell me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part what is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4000	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize them. I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount of super glue will stop it. Maybe I have just been unlucky. Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace the break. I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main rods/crossheads. I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. Dave > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone tell me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part what is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4001	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

curmudgeon wrote: >I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize >them. >I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount >of super glue will stop it. >Maybe I have just been unlucky. >Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with >super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace >the break. >I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, >frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. >The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main >rods/crossheads. > >I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. > >Dave > > I understand , although the deterioriation is caused by impurities, some factors as humidity and low temperature might accelerate the progress. I friend told me he stored Zamac toy cars on the window sill , they desintegrated in winter. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4002	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way to fix that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three pieces. If you put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. Sometimes, there is just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the casting surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and can usually be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still good. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize them. I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount of super glue will stop it. Maybe I have just been unlucky. Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace the break. I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main rods/crossheads. I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. Dave > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone tell me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part what is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! http://mobile.msn.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4003	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum-MAgnesium-Copper.  There are many “alloys” (% mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength of the finished product desired by the manufacturer.   Presumably, model manufacturers are not looking for the best as to quality/strength-they are looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in the casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing).   Consequently, for the most part you can expect “the bottom of the barrel” in material quality for models.  The other folks responding hit the nail on the head-the deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing internal or surface  corrosion.   Products of corrosion cause expansion in the areas of the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little ductility, the corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in cracking.  Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities accelerates the corrosion rate.  Recall from previous posts here that the stories from employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor sweepings (to reclaim “waste” zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt-reuse.   So, impurities could be expected.   One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture.  From this, you can readily see that castings “protected” by a coat of paint, or stored indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less than those stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they will never deteriorate-it may just take longer.  Also, if a manufacturer practiced good casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good quality material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a very long time.   As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a temporary repair.  You have not removed the impurity that caused the problem to begin with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow the process, and bonded the crack together.  Over time, expect the problem to recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and eventually crack the superglue and base metal-continuing the process.  Best to look for replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you have a model you treasure and want to maintain.  And try to keep these old models away from temperature/humidity extremes.   Hope this helps-didn’t mean to get so long-winded.   JerryG.           From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac   Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way to fix that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three pieces. If you put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. Sometimes, there is just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the casting surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and can usually be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still good. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize them. I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount of super glue will stop it. Maybe I have just been unlucky. Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace the break. I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main rods/crossheads. I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. Dave > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone tell me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part what is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > __________________________________________________________ Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! http://mobile.msn.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4004	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

All this now makes me wonder how long our $500 On3 Mikados from MMI are going to last?  I hope they have addressed the impurities problem.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Garteiser To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:13 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum-MAgnesium-Copper.  There are many “alloys” (% mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength of the finished product desired by the manufacturer.   Presumably, model manufacturers are not looking for the best as to quality/strength- they are looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in the casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing).   Consequently, for the most part you can expect “the bottom of the barrel” in material quality for models.  The other folks responding hit the nail on the head-the deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing internal or surface  corrosion.   Products of corrosion cause expansion in the areas of the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little ductility, the corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in cracking.  Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities accelerates the corrosion rate.  Recall from previous posts here that the stories from employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor sweepings (to reclaim “waste” zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt-reuse.   So, impurities could be expected. One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture.  From this, you can readily see that castings “protected” by a coat of paint, or stored indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less than those stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they will never deteriorate- it may just take longer.  Also, if a manufacturer practiced good casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good quality material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a very long time. As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a temporary repair.  You have not removed the impurity that caused the problem to begin with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow the process, and bonded the crack together.  Over time, expect the problem to recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and eventually crack the superglue and base metal-continuing the process.  Best to look for replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you have a model you treasure and want to maintain.  And try to keep these old models away from temperature/ humidity extremes. Hope this helps-didn’t mean to get so long-winded.   JerryG. From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way to fix that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three pieces. If you put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. Sometimes, there is just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the casting surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and can usually be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still good. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize them. I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount of super glue will stop it. Maybe I have just been unlucky. Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace the break. I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main rods/crossheads. I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. Dave > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone tell me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part what is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! http://mobile. msn.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4005	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

Put it in perspective:  How long did your Mom’s 1948 Frigidaire or your Dad’s 1951 Chevy last?  Or that 1978 Buick you never garaged, and the dashboard cracked into a million pieces from the sunlight?   Use it every day, enjoy it, and it will wear out relatively soon.  Stash it away in a dark corner and don’t ever give any one a chance to see it, and it will last a long time.  Models aren’t much different.  Yeah, you can spend bookoos of money on it to keep it on the rails (I hate to think how much UP spends on 844 to keep it roadworthy), but we seldom do that with our models as well.  If you think about it, if we take some reasonable care of our “toys”, they do very well – despite the 40-50 years age they reach.  Look how many 50 year old Mantua locomotives are still around, and compare that with how many of other “relics” (you name them) are still serviceable and enjoyable.   And while we each have some favorite item we want to last “forever”, where does it end up after we are gone?  Just look at ebay, and all the comments re: ”I don’t know anything about trains-we were cleaning out my deceased Dad’s attic/basement/garage and we found these and are offering them for sale”.    So while it is not always easy to see a favorite model deteriorate “too soon”,  enjoy it (that’s why you bought it in the first place), and treat it right, and know you did all you could do to keep it going.  JerryG.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn476 Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:54 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac   All this now makes me wonder how long our $500 On3 Mikados from MMI are going to last?  I hope they have addressed the impurities problem.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Garteiser To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:13 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac   Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum-MAgnesium-Copper.  There are many “alloys” (% mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength of the finished product desired by the manufacturer.   Presumably, model manufacturers are not looking for the best as to quality/strength-they are looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in the casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing).   Consequently, for the most part you can expect “the bottom of the barrel” in material quality for models.  The other folks responding hit the nail on the head-the deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing internal or surface  corrosion.   Products of corrosion cause expansion in the areas of the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little ductility, the corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in cracking.  Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities accelerates the corrosion rate.  Recall from previous posts here that the stories from employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor sweepings (to reclaim “waste” zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt-reuse.   So, impurities could be expected. One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture.  From this, you can readily see that castings “protected” by a coat of paint, or stored indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less than those stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they will never deteriorate-it may just take longer.  Also, if a manufacturer practiced good casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good quality material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a very long time. As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a temporary repair.  You have not removed the impurity that caused the problem to begin with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow the process, and bonded the crack together.  Over time, expect the problem to recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and eventually crack the superglue and base metal-continuing the process.  Best to look for replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you have a model you treasure and want to maintain.  And try to keep these old models away from temperature/humidity extremes. Hope this helps-didn’t mean to get so long-winded.   JerryG. From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way to fix that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three pieces. If you put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. Sometimes, there is just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the casting surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and can usually be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still good. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC ----Original Message Follows---- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize them. I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount of super glue will stop it. Maybe I have just been unlucky. Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace the break. I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main rods/crossheads. I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. Dave > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone tell me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part what is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > __________________________________________________________ Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! http://mobile.msn.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4006	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: New adds

Attachments : One of the advantages of having no money to spend on your hobby is the incentive to finish those projects that are half done. This week took my other Mainline stock car kit off the marination shelf and put the durn thing together! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4007	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

I bought a 1950 Ford Tudor in January of 1970. I still drive it. My 1950 F-1 has been in service for about 18 years. My vacuum tube radios still work. My dial phone still works. Ad Infinitum Nauseum. > > Put it in perspective: How long did your Mom's 1948 Frigidaire or your > Dad's 1951 Chevy last? Or that 1978 Buick you never garaged, and the > dashboard cracked into a million pieces from the sunlight? Use it every > day, enjoy it, and it will wear out relatively soon. Stash it away in a > dark corner and don't ever give any one a chance to see it, and it will last > a long time. Models aren't much different. Yeah, you can spend bookoos of > money on it to keep it on the rails (I hate to think how much UP spends on > 844 to keep it roadworthy), but we seldom do that with our models as well. > If you think about it, if we take some reasonable care of our "toys", they > do very well - despite the 40-50 years age they reach. Look how many 50 > year old Mantua locomotives are still around, and compare that with how many > of other "relics" (you name them) are still serviceable and enjoyable. > > And while we each have some favorite item we want to last "forever", where > does it end up after we are gone? Just look at ebay, and all the comments > re: "I don't know anything about trains-we were cleaning out my deceased > Dad's attic/basement/garage and we found these and are offering them for > sale". > > So while it is not always easy to see a favorite model deteriorate "too > soon", enjoy it (that's why you bought it in the first place), and treat it > right, and know you did all you could do to keep it going. JerryG. > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Glenn476 > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:54 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > All this now makes me wonder how long our $500 On3 Mikados from MMI are > going to last? I hope they have addressed the impurities problem. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry Garteiser <mailto:jerryg@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:13 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum-MAgnesium-Copper. There are many "alloys" (% > mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength of the > finished product desired by the manufacturer. Presumably, model > manufacturers are not looking for the best as to quality/strength- they are > looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in the > casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing). Consequently, for > the most part you can expect "the bottom of the barrel" in material quality > for models. The other folks responding hit the nail on the head- the > deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing internal or > surface corrosion. Products of corrosion cause expansion in the areas of > the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little ductility, the > corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in cracking. > Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities accelerates > the corrosion rate. Recall from previous posts here that the stories from > employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor sweepings (to > reclaim "waste" zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt- reuse. So, > impurities could be expected. > One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture. From this, you > can readily see that castings "protected" by a coat of paint, or stored > indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less than those > stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they will never > deteriorate-it may just take longer. Also, if a manufacturer practiced good > casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good quality > material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a very long > time. > As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a temporary > repair. You have not removed the impurity that caused the problem to begin > with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow the > process, and bonded the crack together. Over time, expect the problem to > recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and eventually crack > the superglue and base metal-continuing the process. Best to look for > replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you have a > model you treasure and want to maintain. And try to keep these old models > away from temperature/humidity extremes. > Hope this helps-didn't mean to get so long-winded. JerryG. > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Victor Bitleris > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way to fix > that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three pieces. If you > put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. Sometimes, there is > just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the casting > surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and can usually > be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still good. > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@... > <mailto:idioticyahoo%40mindspring.com> > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 > > I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize > them. > I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount > of super glue will stop it. > Maybe I have just been unlucky. > Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with > super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace > the break. > I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, > frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. > The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main > rods/crossheads. > > I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. > > Dave > > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone tell > me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been > mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part what > is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! > http://mobile.msn.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4008	From: Wobbly913	Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

WOW  it sounds like you live in a museum.  How neat is that.  Makes me wish I could have all my old stuff back still working like when I had it way back then.   Wobbly913 curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: I bought a 1950 Ford Tudor in January of 1970. I still drive it. My 1950 F-1 has been in service for about 18 years. My vacuum tube radios still work. My dial phone still works. Ad Infinitum Nauseum. > > Put it in perspective: How long did your Mom's 1948 Frigidaire or your > Dad's 1951 Chevy last? Or that 1978 Buick you never garaged, and the > dashboard cracked into a million pieces from the sunlight? Use it every > day, enjoy it, and it will wear out relatively soon. Stash it away in a > dark corner and don't ever give any one a chance to see it, and it will last > a long time. Models aren't much different. Yeah, you can spend bookoos of > money on it to keep it on the rails (I hate to think how much UP spends on > 844 to keep it roadworthy), but we seldom do that with our models as well. > If you think about it, if we take some reasonable care of our "toys", they > do very well - despite the 40-50 years age they reach. Look how many 50 > year old Mantua locomotives are still around, and compare that with how many > of other "relics" (you name them) are still serviceable and enjoyable. > > And while we each have some favorite item we want to last "forever", where > does it end up after we are gone? Just look at ebay, and all the comments > re: "I don't know anything about trains-we were cleaning out my deceased > Dad's attic/basement/garage and we found these and are offering them for > sale". > > So while it is not always easy to see a favorite model deteriorate "too > soon", enjoy it (that's why you bought it in the first place), and treat it > right, and know you did all you could do to keep it going. JerryG. > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Glenn476 > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:54 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > All this now makes me wonder how long our $500 On3 Mikados from MMI are > going to last? I hope they have addressed the impurities problem. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry Garteiser > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:13 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum-MAgnesium-Copper. There are many "alloys" (% > mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength of the > finished product desired by the manufacturer. Presumably, model > manufacturers are not looking for the best as to quality/strength- they are > looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in the > casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing). Consequently, for > the most part you can expect "the bottom of the barrel" in material quality > for models. The other folks responding hit the nail on the head- the > deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing internal or > surface corrosion. Products of corrosion cause expansion in the areas of > the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little ductility, the > corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in cracking. > Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities accelerates > the corrosion rate. Recall from previous posts here that the stories from > employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor sweepings (to > reclaim "waste" zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt- reuse. So, > impurities could be expected. > One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture. From this, you > can readily see that castings "protected" by a coat of paint, or stored > indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less than those > stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they will never > deteriorate-it may just take longer. Also, if a manufacturer practiced good > casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good quality > material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a very long > time. > As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a temporary > repair. You have not removed the impurity that caused the problem to begin > with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow the > process, and bonded the crack together. Over time, expect the problem to > recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and eventually crack > the superglue and base metal-continuing the process. Best to look for > replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you have a > model you treasure and want to maintain. And try to keep these old models > away from temperature/humidity extremes. > Hope this helps-didn't mean to get so long-winded. JerryG. > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Victor Bitleris > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way to fix > that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three pieces. If you > put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. Sometimes, there is > just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the casting > surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and can usually > be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still good. > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "curmudgeon" > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 > > I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize > them. > I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount > of super glue will stop it. > Maybe I have just been unlucky. > Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with > super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace > the break. > I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, > frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. > The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main > rods/crossheads. > > I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. > > Dave > > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone tell > me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been > mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part what > is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! > http://mobile.msn.com > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4009	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

I did not mean to imply EVERY example of everything would destruct ( I also have a ’50 Ford Fordor-no wonder we can’t spell!!) ; but you do not see the 400,000 of them on the road that Ford built in 1950.  And I bet you do not drive it 15,000 miles a year-as does the average driver in a “contemporary” car.  That’s why you pay $15,000 for one in reasonable, running condition now-not the $1300 the dealer sold them for in 1950.   Same logic applies to the Varney Consol in mint condition that goes for $300 nowadays- ain’t many around.  And UP is not hauling much freight with the Challenger anymore-but it’s still around to thrill the public.    Bottom line is that everything has a “service life” – planned or unplanned.  That life can be altered by the way we treat-or mistreat-the object.  It is  also altered by how well-or how badly-someone fabricated it (the old story of a “Monday morning car”-the lemon some people get).   And technology plays a role in many cases as well (Bill Gates did not get rich by making a version of Windows last 10 years!).    So, if you get lucky, get a perfect casting on your new loco, baby it for your lifetime, don’t run it more than 1-2 hours a month, tear it down and P.M. it on schedule, keep strangers’ prying fingers off it, never have it derail and hit the floor, etc. , you are the lucky one that ends up with that treasure for your lifetime.   JerryG.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curmudgeon Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:59 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac   I bought a 1950 Ford Tudor in January of 1970. I still drive it. My 1950 F-1 has been in service for about 18 years. My vacuum tube radios still work. My dial phone still works. Ad Infinitum Nauseum. > > Put it in perspective: How long did your Mom's 1948 Frigidaire or your > Dad's 1951 Chevy last? Or that 1978 Buick you never garaged, and the > dashboard cracked into a million pieces from the sunlight? Use it every > day, enjoy it, and it will wear out relatively soon. Stash it away in a > dark corner and don't ever give any one a chance to see it, and it will last > a long time. Models aren't much different. Yeah, you can spend bookoos of > money on it to keep it on the rails (I hate to think how much UP spends on > 844 to keep it roadworthy), but we seldom do that with our models as well. > If you think about it, if we take some reasonable care of our "toys", they > do very well - despite the 40-50 years age they reach. Look how many 50 > year old Mantua locomotives are still around, and compare that with how many > of other "relics" (you name them) are still serviceable and enjoyable. > > And while we each have some favorite item we want to last "forever", where > does it end up after we are gone? Just look at ebay, and all the comments > re: "I don't know anything about trains-we were cleaning out my deceased > Dad's attic/basement/garage and we found these and are offering them for > sale". > > So while it is not always easy to see a favorite model deteriorate "too > soon", enjoy it (that's why you bought it in the first place), and treat it > right, and know you did all you could do to keep it going. JerryG. > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Glenn476 > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:54 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > All this now makes me wonder how long our $500 On3 Mikados from MMI are > going to last? I hope they have addressed the impurities problem. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry Garteiser <mailto:jerryg@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:13 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum-MAgnesium-Copper. There are many "alloys" (% > mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength of the > finished product desired by the manufacturer. Presumably, model > manufacturers are not looking for the best as to quality/strength- they are > looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in the > casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing). Consequently, for > the most part you can expect "the bottom of the barrel" in material quality > for models. The other folks responding hit the nail on the head- the > deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing internal or > surface corrosion. Products of corrosion cause expansion in the areas of > the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little ductility, the > corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in cracking. > Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities accelerates > the corrosion rate. Recall from previous posts here that the stories from > employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor sweepings (to > reclaim "waste" zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt- reuse. So, > impurities could be expected. > One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture. From this, you > can readily see that castings "protected" by a coat of paint, or stored > indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less than those > stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they will never > deteriorate-it may just take longer. Also, if a manufacturer practiced good > casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good quality > material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a very long > time. > As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a temporary > repair. You have not removed the impurity that caused the problem to begin > with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow the > process, and bonded the crack together. Over time, expect the problem to > recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and eventually crack > the superglue and base metal-continuing the process. Best to look for > replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you have a > model you treasure and want to maintain. And try to keep these old models > away from temperature/humidity extremes. > Hope this helps-didn't mean to get so long-winded. JerryG. > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Victor Bitleris > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way to fix > that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three pieces. If you > put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. Sometimes, there is > just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the casting > surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and can usually > be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still good. > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@... > <mailto:idioticyahoo%40mindspring.com> > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 > > I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize > them. > I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount > of super glue will stop it. > Maybe I have just been unlucky. > Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with > super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace > the break. > I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, > frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. > The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main > rods/crossheads. > > I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. > > Dave > > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone tell > me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been > mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part what > is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! > http://mobile.msn.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4010	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

Jerry, Those are wise, wise words you wrote below. I have been in touch with two different families this past year helping them evaluate and sell "Dad's Train Colection" -- and so many items are new-in-the-box and probably never even test run. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote: > And while we each have some favorite item we want to last "forever", where does it end up after we are gone? Just look at ebay, and all the comments re: "I don't know anything about trains-we were cleaning out my deceased Dad's attic/basement/garage and we found these and are offering them for sale". > So while it is not always easy to see a favorite model deteriorate "too soon", enjoy it (that's why you bought it in the first place), and treat it right, and know you did all you could do to keep it going. JerryG. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4011	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

Don, You must stop doing that! The rest of us will be overcome with guilt! (Wink) Show us a photo some day. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > One of the advantages of having no money to spend on your hobby is the > incentive to finish those projects that are half done. This week took my > other Mainline stock car kit off the marination shelf and put the durn thing > together! > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4012	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

Nice looking stock car, are some of the Mainline kits available from Huff n Puff? Roger       ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New adds One of the advantages of having no money to spend on your hobby is the incentive to finish those projects that are half done. This week took my other Mainline stock car kit off the marination shelf and put the durn thing together! Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4013	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

I have this old RCS Victor cabinet vacuum tube radio in the front room. Fully functional. Hallicrafters SW RX set, functional. Gillfillan wood desktop radio was given to me several years ago, filter caps gone, replaced them and it works fine. Dial phone is a Western Electric Type 300 (Perry Mason type). 5-tube super-het in the dashboard of the 50 works fine. TEAC reel-to-reel decks... All the old 3-rail Lionel works fine...all the old 2-rail "0" works fine (ScaleCraft, General Models, All-Nation, Pearce). And, the H0.....Mantua, Varney, Penn Line, Athearn works fine. Of course, in the automotive end, vacuum wipers, 6-volt positive ground, Borg Warner overdrive, all different, pushbutton start, column shift with no synchro in 1st, manual windows and steering, 4- wheel drum brakes, but they do the job every day! > WOW it sounds like you live in a museum. How neat is that. Makes me wish I could have all my old stuff back still working like when I had it way back then. > > Wobbly913 > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > I bought a 1950 Ford Tudor in January of 1970. > I still drive it. > My 1950 F-1 has been in service for about 18 years. > My vacuum tube radios still work. > My dial phone still works. > Ad Infinitum Nauseum. > > > > Put it in perspective: How long did your Mom's 1948 Frigidaire or > your > > Dad's 1951 Chevy last? Or that 1978 Buick you never garaged, and > the > > dashboard cracked into a million pieces from the sunlight? Use > it every > > day, enjoy it, and it will wear out relatively soon. Stash it > away in a > > dark corner and don't ever give any one a chance to see it, and it > will last > > a long time. Models aren't much different. Yeah, you can spend > bookoos of > > money on it to keep it on the rails (I hate to think how much UP > spends on > > 844 to keep it roadworthy), but we seldom do that with our models > as well. > > If you think about it, if we take some reasonable care of > our "toys", they > > do very well - despite the 40-50 years age they reach. Look how > many 50 > > year old Mantua locomotives are still around, and compare that > with how many > > of other "relics" (you name them) are still serviceable and > enjoyable. > > > > And while we each have some favorite item we want to > last "forever", where > > does it end up after we are gone? Just look at ebay, and all the > comments > > re: "I don't know anything about trains-we were cleaning out my > deceased > > Dad's attic/basement/garage and we found these and are offering > them for > > sale". > > > > So while it is not always easy to see a favorite model > deteriorate "too > > soon", enjoy it (that's why you bought it in the first place), > and treat it > > right, and know you did all you could do to keep it going. JerryG. > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf > > Of Glenn476 > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:54 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > All this now makes me wonder how long our $500 On3 Mikados from > MMI are > > going to last? I hope they have addressed the impurities > problem. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jerry Garteiser > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:13 AM > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum-MAgnesium-Copper. There are > many "alloys" (% > > mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength of > the > > finished product desired by the manufacturer. Presumably, model > > manufacturers are not looking for the best as to quality/strength- > they are > > looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in > the > > casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing). > Consequently, for > > the most part you can expect "the bottom of the barrel" in > material quality > > for models. The other folks responding hit the nail on the head- > the > > deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing > internal or > > surface corrosion. Products of corrosion cause expansion in the > areas of > > the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little > ductility, the > > corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in > cracking. > > Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities > accelerates > > the corrosion rate. Recall from previous posts here that the > stories from > > employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor sweepings > (to > > reclaim "waste" zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt- > reuse. So, > > impurities could be expected. > > One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture. From > this, you > > can readily see that castings "protected" by a coat of paint, or > stored > > indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less than > those > > stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they > will never > > deteriorate-it may just take longer. Also, if a manufacturer > practiced good > > casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good > quality > > material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a > very long > > time. > > As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a > temporary > > repair. You have not removed the impurity that caused the problem > to begin > > with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow > the > > process, and bonded the crack together. Over time, expect the > problem to > > recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and > eventually crack > > the superglue and base metal-continuing the process. Best to look > for > > replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you > have a > > model you treasure and want to maintain. And try to keep these > old models > > away from temperature/humidity extremes. > > Hope this helps-didn't mean to get so long-winded. JerryG. > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf > > Of Victor Bitleris > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way > to fix > > that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three > pieces. If you > > put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. Sometimes, > there is > > just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the > casting > > surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and can > usually > > be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still > good. > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "curmudgeon" > > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 > > > > I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize > > them. > > I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount > > of super glue will stop it. > > Maybe I have just been unlucky. > > Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with > > super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace > > the break. > > I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, > > frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. > > The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main > > rods/crossheads. > > > > I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. > > > > Dave > > > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone > tell > > me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been > > mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part > what > > is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! > > http://mobile.msn.com > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4014	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

The F-1 gets about 10K a year, the Tudor gets about 5K. If you look at cars built in 1950, probably the most abundant is the Ford line, especially if you're talking stock. > I did not mean to imply EVERY example of everything would destruct ( I also > have a '50 Ford Fordor-no wonder we can't spell!!) ; but you do not see the > 400,000 of them on the road that Ford built in 1950. And I bet you do not > drive it 15,000 miles a year-as does the average driver in a "contemporary" > car. That's why you pay $15,000 for one in reasonable, running condition > now-not the $1300 the dealer sold them for in 1950. Same logic applies to > the Varney Consol in mint condition that goes for $300 nowadays- ain't many > around. And UP is not hauling much freight with the Challenger anymore-but > it's still around to thrill the public. > > Bottom line is that everything has a "service life" - planned or unplanned. > That life can be altered by the way we treat-or mistreat-the object. It is > also altered by how well-or how badly-someone fabricated it (the old story > of a "Monday morning car"-the lemon some people get). And technology plays > a role in many cases as well (Bill Gates did not get rich by making a > version of Windows last 10 years!). > > So, if you get lucky, get a perfect casting on your new loco, baby it for > your lifetime, don't run it more than 1-2 hours a month, tear it down and > P.M. it on schedule, keep strangers' prying fingers off it, never have it > derail and hit the floor, etc. , you are the lucky one that ends up with > that treasure for your lifetime. > > JerryG. > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of curmudgeon > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:59 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > I bought a 1950 Ford Tudor in January of 1970. > I still drive it. > My 1950 F-1 has been in service for about 18 years. > My vacuum tube radios still work. > My dial phone still works. > Ad Infinitum Nauseum. > > > > Put it in perspective: How long did your Mom's 1948 Frigidaire or > your > > Dad's 1951 Chevy last? Or that 1978 Buick you never garaged, and > the > > dashboard cracked into a million pieces from the sunlight? Use > it every > > day, enjoy it, and it will wear out relatively soon. Stash it > away in a > > dark corner and don't ever give any one a chance to see it, and it > will last > > a long time. Models aren't much different. Yeah, you can spend > bookoos of > > money on it to keep it on the rails (I hate to think how much UP > spends on > > 844 to keep it roadworthy), but we seldom do that with our models > as well. > > If you think about it, if we take some reasonable care of > our "toys", they > > do very well - despite the 40-50 years age they reach. Look how > many 50 > > year old Mantua locomotives are still around, and compare that > with how many > > of other "relics" (you name them) are still serviceable and > enjoyable. > > > > And while we each have some favorite item we want to > last "forever", where > > does it end up after we are gone? Just look at ebay, and all the > comments > > re: "I don't know anything about trains-we were cleaning out my > deceased > > Dad's attic/basement/garage and we found these and are offering > them for > > sale". > > > > So while it is not always easy to see a favorite model > deteriorate "too > > soon", enjoy it (that's why you bought it in the first place), > and treat it > > right, and know you did all you could do to keep it going. JerryG. > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf > > Of Glenn476 > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:54 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > All this now makes me wonder how long our $500 On3 Mikados from > MMI are > > going to last? I hope they have addressed the impurities > problem. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jerry Garteiser <mailto:jerryg@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:13 AM > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum-MAgnesium-Copper. There are > many "alloys" (% > > mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength of > the > > finished product desired by the manufacturer. Presumably, model > > manufacturers are not looking for the best as to quality/strength- > they are > > looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in > the > > casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing). > Consequently, for > > the most part you can expect "the bottom of the barrel" in > material quality > > for models. The other folks responding hit the nail on the head- > the > > deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing > internal or > > surface corrosion. Products of corrosion cause expansion in the > areas of > > the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little > ductility, the > > corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in > cracking. > > Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities > accelerates > > the corrosion rate. Recall from previous posts here that the > stories from > > employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor sweepings > (to > > reclaim "waste" zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt- > reuse. So, > > impurities could be expected. > > One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture. From > this, you > > can readily see that castings "protected" by a coat of paint, or > stored > > indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less than > those > > stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they > will never > > deteriorate-it may just take longer. Also, if a manufacturer > practiced good > > casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good > quality > > material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a > very long > > time. > > As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a > temporary > > repair. You have not removed the impurity that caused the problem > to begin > > with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow > the > > process, and bonded the crack together. Over time, expect the > problem to > > recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and > eventually crack > > the superglue and base metal-continuing the process. Best to look > for > > replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you > have a > > model you treasure and want to maintain. And try to keep these > old models > > away from temperature/humidity extremes. > > Hope this helps-didn't mean to get so long-winded. JerryG. > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf > > Of Victor Bitleris > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way > to fix > > that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three > pieces. If you > > put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. Sometimes, > there is > > just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the > casting > > surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and can > usually > > be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still > good. > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ > > <mailto:idioticyahoo%40mindspring.com> > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 > > > > I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize > > them. > > I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount > > of super glue will stop it. > > Maybe I have just been unlucky. > > Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with > > super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace > > the break. > > I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, > > frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. > > The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main > > rods/crossheads. > > > > I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. > > > > Dave > > > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone > tell > > me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been > > mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part > what > > is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! > > http://mobile.msn.com > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4015	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

Obviously you take very good care of them.  They are fun to run around in (until it gets 98 degrees here in TX), but sometimes frustrating to get parts for.  Mine is stock (still 6 volt negative ground)-everyone comments on the “funny-sounding starter”.   Keep ‘em going!!  JerryG  (Sorry, Don-we’ll get back on topic and drop this thread.)   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curmudgeon Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:50 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac   The F-1 gets about 10K a year, the Tudor gets about 5K. If you look at cars built in 1950, probably the most abundant is the Ford line, especially if you're talking stock. > I did not mean to imply EVERY example of everything would destruct ( I also > have a '50 Ford Fordor-no wonder we can't spell!!) ; but you do not see the > 400,000 of them on the road that Ford built in 1950. And I bet you do not > drive it 15,000 miles a year-as does the average driver in a "contemporary" > car. That's why you pay $15,000 for one in reasonable, running condition > now-not the $1300 the dealer sold them for in 1950. Same logic applies to > the Varney Consol in mint condition that goes for $300 nowadays- ain't many > around. And UP is not hauling much freight with the Challenger anymore-but > it's still around to thrill the public. > > Bottom line is that everything has a "service life" - planned or unplanned. > That life can be altered by the way we treat-or mistreat-the object. It is > also altered by how well-or how badly-someone fabricated it (the old story > of a "Monday morning car"-the lemon some people get). And technology plays > a role in many cases as well (Bill Gates did not get rich by making a > version of Windows last 10 years!). > > So, if you get lucky, get a perfect casting on your new loco, baby it for > your lifetime, don't run it more than 1-2 hours a month, tear it down and > P.M. it on schedule, keep strangers' prying fingers off it, never have it > derail and hit the floor, etc. , you are the lucky one that ends up with > that treasure for your lifetime. > > JerryG. > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of curmudgeon > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:59 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > I bought a 1950 Ford Tudor in January of 1970. > I still drive it. > My 1950 F-1 has been in service for about 18 years. > My vacuum tube radios still work. > My dial phone still works. > Ad Infinitum Nauseum. > > > > Put it in perspective: How long did your Mom's 1948 Frigidaire or > your > > Dad's 1951 Chevy last? Or that 1978 Buick you never garaged, and > the > > dashboard cracked into a million pieces from the sunlight? Use > it every > > day, enjoy it, and it will wear out relatively soon. Stash it > away in a > > dark corner and don't ever give any one a chance to see it, and it > will last > > a long time. Models aren't much different. Yeah, you can spend > bookoos of > > money on it to keep it on the rails (I hate to think how much UP > spends on > > 844 to keep it roadworthy), but we seldom do that with our models > as well. > > If you think about it, if we take some reasonable care of > our "toys", they > > do very well - despite the 40-50 years age they reach. Look how > many 50 > > year old Mantua locomotives are still around, and compare that > with how many > > of other "relics" (you name them) are still serviceable and > enjoyable. > > > > And while we each have some favorite item we want to > last "forever", where > > does it end up after we are gone? Just look at ebay, and all the > comments > > re: "I don't know anything about trains-we were cleaning out my > deceased > > Dad's attic/basement/garage and we found these and are offering > them for > > sale". > > > > So while it is not always easy to see a favorite model > deteriorate "too > > soon", enjoy it (that's why you bought it in the first place), > and treat it > > right, and know you did all you could do to keep it going. JerryG. > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf > > Of Glenn476 > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:54 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > All this now makes me wonder how long our $500 On3 Mikados from > MMI are > > going to last? I hope they have addressed the impurities > problem. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jerry Garteiser <mailto:jerryg@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:13 AM > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum-MAgnesium-Copper. There are > many "alloys" (% > > mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength of > the > > finished product desired by the manufacturer. Presumably, model > > manufacturers are not looking for the best as to quality/strength- > they are > > looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in > the > > casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing). > Consequently, for > > the most part you can expect "the bottom of the barrel" in > material quality > > for models. The other folks responding hit the nail on the head- > the > > deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing > internal or > > surface corrosion. Products of corrosion cause expansion in the > areas of > > the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little > ductility, the > > corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in > cracking. > > Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities > accelerates > > the corrosion rate. Recall from previous posts here that the > stories from > > employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor sweepings > (to > > reclaim "waste" zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt- > reuse. So, > > impurities could be expected. > > One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture. From > this, you > > can readily see that castings "protected" by a coat of paint, or > stored > > indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less than > those > > stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they > will never > > deteriorate-it may just take longer. Also, if a manufacturer > practiced good > > casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good > quality > > material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a > very long > > time. > > As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a > temporary > > repair. You have not removed the impurity that caused the problem > to begin > > with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow > the > > process, and bonded the crack together. Over time, expect the > problem to > > recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and > eventually crack > > the superglue and base metal-continuing the process. Best to look > for > > replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you > have a > > model you treasure and want to maintain. And try to keep these > old models > > away from temperature/humidity extremes. > > Hope this helps-didn't mean to get so long-winded. JerryG. > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf > > Of Victor Bitleris > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way > to fix > > that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three > pieces. If you > > put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. Sometimes, > there is > > just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the > casting > > surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and can > usually > > be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still > good. > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ > > <mailto:idioticyahoo%40mindspring.com> > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 > > > > I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to stabilize > > them. > > I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no amount > > of super glue will stop it. > > Maybe I have just been unlucky. > > Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed with > > super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to brace > > the break. > > I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab deteriorating, > > frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. > > The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main > > rods/crossheads. > > > > I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. > > > > Dave > > > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone > tell > > me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been > > mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part > what > > is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! > > http://mobile.msn.com > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4016	From: curmudgeon	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

35 years in auto repair (until some moron decided stop signs were not mandatory) I found parts for Flathead V-8s were easier to come by than for newer Japanese cars. I don't have any issues with parts, yet. Doing a 3/4 race 50 Merc for my 49 Willys right now, going from .100 to .125 over, no problem on parts. To relate to trains, I find parts for my vintage trains easier to come by than for 5-year-old Bachmann trains. Dave > > Obviously you take very good care of them. They are fun to run around in > (until it gets 98 degrees here in TX), but sometimes frustrating to get > parts for. Mine is stock (still 6 volt negative ground)-everyone comments > on the "funny-sounding starter". Keep 'em going!! JerryG (Sorry, > Don-we'll get back on topic and drop this thread.) > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of curmudgeon > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:50 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > The F-1 gets about 10K a year, the Tudor gets about 5K. > If you look at cars built in 1950, probably the most abundant is the > Ford line, especially if you're talking stock. > > > I did not mean to imply EVERY example of everything would destruct > ( I also > > have a '50 Ford Fordor-no wonder we can't spell!!) ; but you do > not see the > > 400,000 of them on the road that Ford built in 1950. And I bet > you do not > > drive it 15,000 miles a year-as does the average driver in > a "contemporary" > > car. That's why you pay $15,000 for one in reasonable, running > condition > > now-not the $1300 the dealer sold them for in 1950. Same logic > applies to > > the Varney Consol in mint condition that goes for $300 nowadays- > ain't many > > around. And UP is not hauling much freight with the Challenger > anymore-but > > it's still around to thrill the public. > > > > Bottom line is that everything has a "service life" - planned or > unplanned. > > That life can be altered by the way we treat-or mistreat-the > object. It is > > also altered by how well-or how badly-someone fabricated it (the > old story > > of a "Monday morning car"-the lemon some people get). And > technology plays > > a role in many cases as well (Bill Gates did not get rich by > making a > > version of Windows last 10 years!). > > > > So, if you get lucky, get a perfect casting on your new loco, baby > it for > > your lifetime, don't run it more than 1-2 hours a month, tear it > down and > > P.M. it on schedule, keep strangers' prying fingers off it, never > have it > > derail and hit the floor, etc. , you are the lucky one that ends > up with > > that treasure for your lifetime. > > > > JerryG. > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf > > Of curmudgeon > > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:59 AM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > I bought a 1950 Ford Tudor in January of 1970. > > I still drive it. > > My 1950 F-1 has been in service for about 18 years. > > My vacuum tube radios still work. > > My dial phone still works. > > Ad Infinitum Nauseum. > > > > > > Put it in perspective: How long did your Mom's 1948 Frigidaire > or > > your > > > Dad's 1951 Chevy last? Or that 1978 Buick you never garaged, and > > the > > > dashboard cracked into a million pieces from the sunlight? Use > > it every > > > day, enjoy it, and it will wear out relatively soon. Stash it > > away in a > > > dark corner and don't ever give any one a chance to see it, and > it > > will last > > > a long time. Models aren't much different. Yeah, you can spend > > bookoos of > > > money on it to keep it on the rails (I hate to think how much UP > > spends on > > > 844 to keep it roadworthy), but we seldom do that with our > models > > as well. > > > If you think about it, if we take some reasonable care of > > our "toys", they > > > do very well - despite the 40-50 years age they reach. Look how > > many 50 > > > year old Mantua locomotives are still around, and compare that > > with how many > > > of other "relics" (you name them) are still serviceable and > > enjoyable. > > > > > > And while we each have some favorite item we want to > > last "forever", where > > > does it end up after we are gone? Just look at ebay, and all the > > comments > > > re: "I don't know anything about trains-we were cleaning out my > > deceased > > > Dad's attic/basement/garage and we found these and are offering > > them for > > > sale". > > > > > > So while it is not always easy to see a favorite model > > deteriorate "too > > > soon", enjoy it (that's why you bought it in the first place), > > and treat it > > > right, and know you did all you could do to keep it going. > JerryG. > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf > > > Of Glenn476 > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:54 PM > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > > > All this now makes me wonder how long our $500 On3 Mikados from > > MMI are > > > going to last? I hope they have addressed the impurities > > problem. gj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Jerry Garteiser <mailto:jerryg@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:13 AM > > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > > > Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum-MAgnesium-Copper. There are > > many "alloys" (% > > > mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength > of > > the > > > finished product desired by the manufacturer. Presumably, model > > > manufacturers are not looking for the best as to > quality/strength- > > they are > > > looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in > > the > > > casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing). > > Consequently, for > > > the most part you can expect "the bottom of the barrel" in > > material quality > > > for models. The other folks responding hit the nail on the head- > > the > > > deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing > > internal or > > > surface corrosion. Products of corrosion cause expansion in the > > areas of > > > the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little > > ductility, the > > > corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in > > cracking. > > > Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities > > accelerates > > > the corrosion rate. Recall from previous posts here that the > > stories from > > > employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor > sweepings > > (to > > > reclaim "waste" zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt- > > reuse. So, > > > impurities could be expected. > > > One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture. From > > this, you > > > can readily see that castings "protected" by a coat of paint, or > > stored > > > indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less > than > > those > > > stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they > > will never > > > deteriorate-it may just take longer. Also, if a manufacturer > > practiced good > > > casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good > > quality > > > material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a > > very long > > > time. > > > As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a > > temporary > > > repair. You have not removed the impurity that caused the > problem > > to begin > > > with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow > > the > > > process, and bonded the crack together. Over time, expect the > > problem to > > > recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and > > eventually crack > > > the superglue and base metal-continuing the process. Best to > look > > for > > > replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you > > have a > > > model you treasure and want to maintain. And try to keep these > > old models > > > away from temperature/humidity extremes. > > > Hope this helps-didn't mean to get so long-winded. JerryG. > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf > > > Of Victor Bitleris > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way > > to fix > > > that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three > > pieces. If you > > > put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. > Sometimes, > > there is > > > just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the > > casting > > > surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and > can > > usually > > > be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still > > good. > > > Vic Bitleris > > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ > > > <mailto:idioticyahoo%40mindspring.com> > > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:vintageHO% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 > > > > > > I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to > stabilize > > > them. > > > I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no > amount > > > of super glue will stop it. > > > Maybe I have just been unlucky. > > > Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed > with > > > super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to > brace > > > the break. > > > I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab > deteriorating, > > > frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. > > > The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main > > > rods/crossheads. > > > > > > I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. > > > > > > Dave > > > > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone > > tell > > > me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been > > > mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part > > what > > > is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! > > > http://mobile.msn.com > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4017	From: herb1013	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Fw: GE Loco & Test Car Set - Only 35 Produced - Pre Order Now

Dont everyone order one at once.                          Herb Flavell ----- Original Message ----- From: Internet Model Trains To: herb1013@... Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:44 PM Subject: GE Loco & Test Car Set - Only 35 Produced - Pre Order Now Internet Trains respects your privacy and doesn't send unsolicited emails. You're receiving this email because you signed up for it on our website.   You may unsubscribe if you no longer wish to receive our emails. GE Hybrid Evolution Series Locomotive DEMONSTRATOR and GE Test Car Set Only 35 sets will be produced! Overland Models, Inc. Limited Edition Brass HO-scale Digitrax DC/DCC decoder in the locomotive GE Hybrid Evolution Series Locomotive DEMONSTRATOR and GE Test Car Set   Prototype Shown Above Stock number - AJ-2010 Locomotive road number 2010 Test car road number 90 Production limited to 35 sets MSRP: Estimated $1400-$1600 Due: Spring 2008 Please note that this set will be limited to only 35 units world wide.  A non refundable $50 deposit will be required to secure your set. If you would like to view this HO-scale model, Click here for more info   Click here for details Happy Modeling, The Internet Trains Crew No Reply Email mailinglist@... Phone: 714.256.9401 Web: http://www.InternetTrains.com Forward email This email was sent to herb1013@..., by mailinglist@... Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. Email Marketing by Internet Trains, Inc. | 113 Viking Ave | Brea | CA | 92821

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4018	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

I DID attach a photo to the post, you must be reading online or in digest mode. Anyway a copy of the picture in the "zdondellmann's stuff 'miscellaneous'" photo album, it's the last picture, the Mainline MKT yellow stock. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 8:42 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New adds > Don, > > You must stop doing that! The rest of us will be overcome with guilt! > (Wink) > > Show us a photo some day. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> One of the advantages of having no money to spend on your hobby is > the >> incentive to finish those projects that are half done. This week > took my >> other Mainline stock car kit off the marination shelf and put the > durn thing >> together! >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4019	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

Dave, JG , I always got a kick out of flatty exhaust thru Smittys . Sweet ! Or y-blocks either !! Now I've got a FE block with glass packs , No hope for me ! HH curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: 35 years in auto repair (until some moron decided stop signs were not mandatory) I found parts for Flathead V-8s were easier to come by than for newer Japanese cars. I don't have any issues with parts, yet. Doing a 3/4 race 50 Merc for my 49 Willys right now, going from .100 to .125 over, no problem on parts. To relate to trains, I find parts for my vintage trains easier to come by than for 5-year-old Bachmann trains. Dave > > Obviously you take very good care of them. They are fun to run around in > (until it gets 98 degrees here in TX), but sometimes frustrating to get > parts for. Mine is stock (still 6 volt negative ground)-everyone comments > on the "funny-sounding starter". Keep 'em going!! JerryG (Sorry, > Don-we'll get back on topic and drop this thread.) > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf > Of curmudgeon > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:50 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > The F-1 gets about 10K a year, the Tudor gets about 5K. > If you look at cars built in 1950, probably the most abundant is the > Ford line, especially if you're talking stock. > > > I did not mean to imply EVERY example of everything would destruct > ( I also > > have a '50 Ford Fordor-no wonder we can't spell!!) ; but you do > not see the > > 400,000 of them on the road that Ford built in 1950. And I bet > you do not > > drive it 15,000 miles a year-as does the average driver in > a "contemporary" > > car. That's why you pay $15,000 for one in reasonable, running > condition > > now-not the $1300 the dealer sold them for in 1950. Same logic > applies to > > the Varney Consol in mint condition that goes for $300 nowadays- > ain't many > > around. And UP is not hauling much freight with the Challenger > anymore-but > > it's still around to thrill the public. > > > > Bottom line is that everything has a "service life" - planned or > unplanned. > > That life can be altered by the way we treat-or mistreat-the > object. It is > > also altered by how well-or how badly-someone fabricated it (the > old story > > of a "Monday morning car"-the lemon some people get). And > technology plays > > a role in many cases as well (Bill Gates did not get rich by > making a > > version of Windows last 10 years!). > > > > So, if you get lucky, get a perfect casting on your new loco, baby > it for > > your lifetime, don't run it more than 1-2 hours a month, tear it > down and > > P.M. it on schedule, keep strangers' prying fingers off it, never > have it > > derail and hit the floor, etc. , you are the lucky one that ends > up with > > that treasure for your lifetime. > > > > JerryG. > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf > > Of curmudgeon > > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:59 AM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > I bought a 1950 Ford Tudor in January of 1970. > > I still drive it. > > My 1950 F-1 has been in service for about 18 years. > > My vacuum tube radios still work. > > My dial phone still works. > > Ad Infinitum Nauseum. > > > > > > Put it in perspective: How long did your Mom's 1948 Frigidaire > or > > your > > > Dad's 1951 Chevy last? Or that 1978 Buick you never garaged, and > > the > > > dashboard cracked into a million pieces from the sunlight? Use > > it every > > > day, enjoy it, and it will wear out relatively soon. Stash it > > away in a > > > dark corner and don't ever give any one a chance to see it, and > it > > will last > > > a long time. Models aren't much different. Yeah, you can spend > > bookoos of > > > money on it to keep it on the rails (I hate to think how much UP > > spends on > > > 844 to keep it roadworthy), but we seldom do that with our > models > > as well. > > > If you think about it, if we take some reasonable care of > > our "toys", they > > > do very well - despite the 40-50 years age they reach. Look how > > many 50 > > > year old Mantua locomotives are still around, and compare that > > with how many > > > of other "relics" (you name them) are still serviceable and > > enjoyable. > > > > > > And while we each have some favorite item we want to > > last "forever", where > > > does it end up after we are gone? Just look at ebay, and all the > > comments > > > re: "I don't know anything about trains-we were cleaning out my > > deceased > > > Dad's attic/basement/ garage and we found these and are offering > > them for > > > sale". > > > > > > So while it is not always easy to see a favorite model > > deteriorate "too > > > soon", enjoy it (that's why you bought it in the first place), > > and treat it > > > right, and know you did all you could do to keep it going. > JerryG. > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On Behalf > > > Of Glenn476 > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:54 PM > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > > > All this now makes me wonder how long our $500 On3 Mikados from > > MMI are > > > going to last? I hope they have addressed the impurities > > problem. gj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Jerry Garteiser <mailto:jerryg@ > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:13 AM > > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > > > > Zamac stands for Zink-Aluminum- MAgnesium- Copper. There are > > many "alloys" (% > > > mixtures of metals)of zamac-depending on the qualities/strength > of > > the > > > finished product desired by the manufacturer. Presumably, model > > > manufacturers are not looking for the best as to > quality/strength- > > they are > > > looking for the material that produces the detail they desire in > > the > > > casting, at the cheapest price (competitive pricing). > > Consequently, for > > > the most part you can expect "the bottom of the barrel" in > > material quality > > > for models. The other folks responding hit the nail on the head- > > the > > > deterioration is due to impurities in the casting metal causing > > internal or > > > surface corrosion. Products of corrosion cause expansion in the > > areas of > > > the impurities; since zamac is a solid material with little > > ductility, the > > > corrosion causes internal stresses in the casting-resulting in > > cracking. > > > Moisture getting into the cracks and contacting the impurities > > accelerates > > > the corrosion rate. Recall from previous posts here that the > > stories from > > > employees of some of the manufacturers related how floor > sweepings > > (to > > > reclaim "waste" zamac) were thrown back into the pot for remelt- > > reuse. So, > > > impurities could be expected. > > > One of the necessary constituents of corrosion is moisture. From > > this, you > > > can readily see that castings "protected" by a coat of paint, or > > stored > > > indoors in a climate controlled atmosphere, will suffer less > than > > those > > > stored in a garage, damp basement, etc. That does not mean they > > will never > > > deteriorate- it may just take longer. Also, if a manufacturer > > practiced good > > > casting techniques and minimized impurities (and bought a good > > quality > > > material to begin with), the castings can be expected to last a > > very long > > > time. > > > As to CA (super glue) saving the casting, I would expect only a > > temporary > > > repair. You have not removed the impurity that caused the > problem > > to begin > > > with; you have just temporarily sealed off some moisture to slow > > the > > > process, and bonded the crack together. Over time, expect the > > problem to > > > recur-the impurity will continue to corrode, expand, and > > eventually crack > > > the superglue and base metal-continuing the process. Best to > look > > for > > > replacement parts in good shape at swap meets or internet if you > > have a > > > model you treasure and want to maintain. And try to keep these > > old models > > > away from temperature/ humidity extremes. > > > Hope this helps-didn't mean to get so long-winded. JerryG. > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On Behalf > > > Of Victor Bitleris > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:17 AM > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > Oftentimes the bad castings start to crumble and there is no way > > to fix > > > that, even if they start out by crumbling into two or three > > pieces. If you > > > put any pressure on them, it will break in other areas. > Sometimes, > > there is > > > just one or two bad spots, as in blemishes and erosion on the > > casting > > > surface. This is usually some form of corrosion/oxidation and > can > > usually > > > be cleaned up and filled in as long as the base metal is still > > good. > > > Vic Bitleris > > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ > > > <mailto:idioticyaho o%40mindspring. com> > > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:vintageHO% > > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:vintageHO% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac > > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:08:15 -0000 > > > > > > I have read of folks who paint super glue on the parts to > stabilize > > > them. > > > I have found once they start going bad, they expand, and no > amount > > > of super glue will stop it. > > > Maybe I have just been unlucky. > > > Broken parts, if you can get them back together, can be fixed > with > > > super glue, and if you can, fit a doubler on the backside to > brace > > > the break. > > > I have an engine I picked up that had the boiler/cab > deteriorating, > > > frame, bottom cover, pilot, tender floor, and now drivers. > > > The only Zamac parts still in use are the cylinders and main > > > rods/crossheads. > > > > > > I am beginning to think the rot is transferrable. > > > > > > Dave > > > > In showing my lack of knowledge on vintage ho - Could someone > > tell > > > me what zamac is made of? Treating the deterioration has been > > > mentioned often. How do you do it? When repairing a broken part > > what > > > is the best way to do it? Thanks for any help on this, Don V > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > > Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! > > > http://mobile. msn.com > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4020	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Zamac

"curmudgeon" idioticyahoo@... enlightened us with: >Dial phone is a Western Electric Type 300 (Perry Mason type). One bedroom has a white dial WECO 500 fone in it. >5-tube super-het in the dashboard of the 50 works fine. Have a 3" scope tube powered... >TEAC reel-to-reel decks... Sold mine a few years back...how many belts has yours used? Most disintegrated over time. Even the extra spare belt was nothing but dust. >All the old 3-rail Lionel works fine...all the old 2-rail "0" works >fine (ScaleCraft, General Models, All-Nation, Pearce). >And, the H0.....Mantua, Varney, Penn Line, Athearn works fine. My PennLine 2-8-0 and Tyco 4-6-2 are still perfect and runable although now are confined to a display case.. Only problem with zamac cast locos I have had has been with some "New One" locos from the late 50s. They too are in a display case showing their deterioration...I dare not handle them. Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4021	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

Thanks! Looks great! Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I DID attach a photo to the post, you must be reading online or in digest > mode. Anyway a copy of the picture in the "zdondellmann's stuff > 'miscellaneous'" photo album, it's the last picture, the Mainline MKT yellow > stock. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4022	From: donvdh	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Bowser Challenger parts

I have an incomplete Bowser Challenger - number 9100 as far as I can tell - for which I need the entire pilot assembly. I probably need the complete front and rear drive wheel assemblies along with attaching parts for the forward drive set. I have the frames for the front and rear drive assemblies, but no drive wheels or complete valve rod assemblies. I guess what I have actually constitutes a basic parts pile for repairs to use on anther engine but I want to try to make this one work. Thanks for any help anyone can offer. I have the Bowser contact information but thought I'd ask here fist in the event someone might have some surplus parts. My provider won't always allow replies using vintageho reply  to come through. Please reply to donvdh@... . Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4023	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Challenger parts

I have a bunch of challenger parts Don.   Sean donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: I have an incomplete Bowser Challenger - number 9100 as far as I can tell - for which I need the entire pilot assembly. I probably need the complete front and rear drive wheel assemblies along with attaching parts for the forward drive set. I have the frames for the front and rear drive assemblies, but no drive wheels or complete valve rod assemblies. I guess what I have actually constitutes a basic parts pile for repairs to use on anther engine but I want to try to make this one work. Thanks for any help anyone can offer. I have the Bowser contact information but thought I'd ask here fist in the event someone might have some surplus parts. My provider won't always allow replies using vintageho reply  to come through. Please reply to donvdh@cableone. net . Don V. Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4024	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: New adds

Thanks. Fingers are getting a little shakey in my old age to do some of these more "fiddly" kits. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 6:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New adds > Thanks! Looks great! > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> I DID attach a photo to the post, you must be reading online or in > digest >> mode. Anyway a copy of the picture in the "zdondellmann's stuff >> 'miscellaneous'" photo album, it's the last picture, the Mainline MKT > yellow >> stock. >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4025	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

“New One” must have bought their casting material from the local junk dealer.  They are notorious for crumbling.  I recently combined three of mine into 1 2/3 (the other 1/3 coming from brass castings and a spare tender); no telling how much longer these will last.  I had to be crazy to spend my time salvaging these. . . .   JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Hobin Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:02 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Zamac   "curmudgeon" idioticyahoo@... enlightened us with: >Dial phone is a Western Electric Type 300 (Perry Mason type). One bedroom has a white dial WECO 500 fone in it. >5-tube super-het in the dashboard of the 50 works fine. Have a 3" scope tube powered... >TEAC reel-to-reel decks... Sold mine a few years back...how many belts has yours used? Most disintegrated over time. Even the extra spare belt was nothing but dust. >All the old 3-rail Lionel works fine...all the old 2-rail "0" works >fine (ScaleCraft, General Models, All-Nation, Pearce). >And, the H0.....Mantua, Varney, Penn Line, Athearn works fine. My PennLine 2-8-0 and Tyco 4-6-2 are still perfect and runable although now are confined to a display case.. Only problem with zamac cast locos I have had has been with some "New One" locos from the late 50s. They too are in a display case showing their deterioration...I dare not handle them. Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4026	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac - Hertz's comments

I have a copy of "Advanced Model Railroading" by Lous H. Hertz in 1955 where he describes die casting problems starting on page 145.  (By the way, he was viewing "vintage" as in the 1930's and 1940's - not surprising in 1955.)  Here what Hertz said about it...   "...Die castings also come in for a considerable amount of scrutiny, especially with regard to large units such as complete locomotive and tender bodies rather than small parts like tanks and brake cylinders.  Much of this is due to experiences with early die castings used on many tinplate trains of the 1920's and 1930's, and a belief that any die casting must inevitably craze, warp, and swell, or in time simply disintegrate.  It is quite true that many early die castings as applied to model railroad equipment did, in time, undergo serious difficulties in these directions and gave the process somewhat of a bad name in certain quarters which it has not yet entirely overcome.  many theories were advanced as to why die castings went bad, usually linked with geography, atmospheric conditions, changes in temperature, or simply to extreme dampness.  "If you wife hangs the wash in the cellar, your die castings will go bad", was a favorite sage expression at one time.  Such things will of course affect any material, whether wood, metal, paper, or plastic.  They were not the cause of die castings failure, though they may have affected it in a minor way.  Closely controlled laboratory tests on the part of suppliers of die-casting alloys showed, for example, a variation in the external corrosion penetration of one widely used allow between .00022" in New York and .000078" in Palmerton, Pa.  An external corrosion rate that has to be measured in hundred-thousandths and millionths of an inch is hardly an important factor.  Even this extremely limited corrosion can be halted, if need be, by a patented process*  that forms a thin protective film on the surface of the casting."   " *Known as the Cronak Process and developed and patented by the New Jersey Zinc Co."   "THE CAUSE OF DIE CASTING FAILURE"   "It is worth while devoting space here once and forever to scotch the legend of die casting failure, for it is one that is widespread, and the reason most frequently heard to this day in model railroading circles opposed to their use.  If anything, it is advanced more often now then in former years, what with the ever more widespread use of mass-produced die-cast parts in modern kits.  The explanation of early die-casting failure is actually quite simple.  The clue to the whole thing could be found in the fact that when die castings were used in model railroad equipment on a given layout, often identical castings from the same dies, some would in time start to craze or disintegrate while others remained perfect;  in some cases now for as long as 25 years.  The real cause of the die casting trouble was contamination of the metal mix at the time of the original melting.  Lead or tin, generally in amounts over .005 to .007 percent of the total mix, will result eventually in what is technically known as subsurface network corrosion, or inter-granular corrosion.  Those who airily dismissed die castings by saying they would "corrode" were therefore, in a sense, correct, but the corrosion that did the damage came from an internal source, going back to the original melting, and not from the conditions under which they subsequently were used or stored, except insofar as it might be hastened by humidity and temperature.  What this means in actual practice may be better appreciated by the comparison recently drawn by one of the engineers of a large tinplate manufacturer to the effect that even a single chewing-gum wrapper falling into the pot would "poison" the melt.* "   " *For a brief but interesting discussion of this subject by engineers actively concerned with the problems of model train production, see Electric Trains, March, 1952, page 36."   Chuck K.   ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Garteiser To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 8:19 AM Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Zamac “New One” must have bought their casting material from the local junk dealer.  They are notorious for crumbling.  I recently combined three of mine into 1 2/3 (the other 1/3 coming from brass castings and a spare tender); no telling how much longer these will last.  I had to be crazy to spend my time salvaging these. . . .   JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ray Hobin Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:02 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [vintageHO] Zamac "curmudgeon" idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com enlightened us with: >Dial phone is a Western Electric Type 300 (Perry Mason type). One bedroom has a white dial WECO 500 fone in it. >5-tube super-het in the dashboard of the 50 works fine. Have a 3" scope tube powered... >TEAC reel-to-reel decks... Sold mine a few years back...how many belts has yours used? Most disintegrated over time. Even the extra spare belt was nothing but dust. >All the old 3-rail Lionel works fine...all the old 2-rail "0" works >fine (ScaleCraft, General Models, All-Nation, Pearce). >And, the H0.....Mantua, Varney, Penn Line, Athearn works fine. My PennLine 2-8-0 and Tyco 4-6-2 are still perfect and runable although now are confined to a display case.. Only problem with zamac cast locos I have had has been with some "New One" locos from the late 50s. They too are in a display case showing their deterioration. ..I dare not handle them. Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4027	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac - Hertz's comments

Amazing that they knew so much back then, and still the various manufacturers were not “watching the kettle” more closely.  But quality control was not a buzzword back then.   And too, probably model trains were more regarded as “toys”, and a lifetime of 20 years was considered satisfactory????    Thanks for the research, Charles.   JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles E. Kinzer Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 5:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Zamac - Hertz's comments   I have a copy of "Advanced Model Railroading" by Lous H. Hertz in 1955 where he describes die casting problems starting on page 145.  (By the way, he was viewing "vintage" as in the 1930's and 1940's - not surprising in 1955.)  Here what Hertz said about it...   "...Die castings also come in for a considerable amount of scrutiny, especially with regard to large units such as complete locomotive and tender bodies rather than small parts like tanks and brake cylinders.  Much of this is due to experiences with early die castings used on many tinplate trains of the 1920's and 1930's, and a belief that any die casting must inevitably craze, warp, and swell, or in time simply disintegrate.  It is quite true that many early die castings as applied to model railroad equipment did, in time, undergo serious difficulties in these directions and gave the process somewhat of a bad name in certain quarters which it has not yet entirely overcome.  many theories were advanced as to why die castings went bad, usually linked with geography, atmospheric conditions, changes in temperature, or simply to extreme dampness.  "If you wife hangs the wash in the cellar, your die castings will go bad", was a favorite sage expression at one time.  Such things will of course affect any material, whether wood, metal, paper, or plastic.  They were not the cause of die castings failure, though they may have affected it in a minor way.  Closely controlled laboratory tests on the part of suppliers of die-casting alloys showed, for example, a variation in the external corrosion penetration of one widely used allow between .00022" in New York and .000078" in Palmerton, Pa.  An external corrosion rate that has to be measured in hundred-thousandths and millionths of an inch is hardly an important factor.  Even this extremely limited corrosion can be halted, if need be, by a patented process*  that forms a thin protective film on the surface of the casting."   " *Known as the Cronak Process and developed and patented by the New Jersey Zinc Co."   "THE CAUSE OF DIE CASTING FAILURE"   "It is worth while devoting space here once and forever to scotch the legend of die casting failure, for it is one that is widespread, and the reason most frequently heard to this day in model railroading circles opposed to their use.  If anything, it is advanced more often now then in former years, what with the ever more widespread use of mass-produced die-cast parts in modern kits.  The explanation of early die-casting failure is actually quite simple.  The clue to the whole thing could be found in the fact that when die castings were used in model railroad equipment on a given layout, often identical castings from the same dies, some would in time start to craze or disintegrate while others remained perfect;  in some cases now for as long as 25 years.  The real cause of the die casting trouble was contamination of the metal mix at the time of the original melting.  Lead or tin, generally in amounts over .005 to .007 percent of the total mix, will result eventually in what is technically known as subsurface network corrosion, or inter-granular corrosion.  Those who airily dismissed die castings by saying they would "corrode" were therefore, in a sense, correct, but the corrosion that did the damage came from an internal source, going back to the original melting, and not from the conditions under which they subsequently were used or stored, except insofar as it might be hastened by humidity and temperature.  What this means in actual practice may be better appreciated by the comparison recently drawn by one of the engineers of a large tinplate manufacturer to the effect that even a single chewing-gum wrapper falling into the pot would "poison" the melt.* "   " *For a brief but interesting discussion of this subject by engineers actively concerned with the problems of model train production, see Electric Trains, March, 1952, page 36."   Chuck K.   ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Garteiser To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 8:19 AM Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Zamac   “New One” must have bought their casting material from the local junk dealer.  They are notorious for crumbling.  I recently combined three of mine into 1 2/3 (the other 1/3 coming from brass castings and a spare tender); no telling how much longer these will last.  I had to be crazy to spend my time salvaging these. . . .   JerryG From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Hobin Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:02 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Zamac "curmudgeon" idioticyahoo@... enlightened us with: >Dial phone is a Western Electric Type 300 (Perry Mason type). One bedroom has a white dial WECO 500 fone in it. >5-tube super-het in the dashboard of the 50 works fine. Have a 3" scope tube powered... >TEAC reel-to-reel decks... Sold mine a few years back...how many belts has yours used? Most disintegrated over time. Even the extra spare belt was nothing but dust. >All the old 3-rail Lionel works fine...all the old 2-rail "0" works >fine (ScaleCraft, General Models, All-Nation, Pearce). >And, the H0.....Mantua, Varney, Penn Line, Athearn works fine. My PennLine 2-8-0 and Tyco 4-6-2 are still perfect and runable although now are confined to a display case.. Only problem with zamac cast locos I have had has been with some "New One" locos from the late 50s. They too are in a display case showing their deterioration...I dare not handle them. Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4028	From: erieberk	Date: 6/25/2007
Subject: Re: Thomas Tank Cars: Was -- HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33

Regret getting back to this so late, but have had many computor problems (still ongoing)-- at the library now because of it, but that's another problem. Gary, Got through half the collection and came up with some answers. Hope to get to the bottom of thing soon and will report more complete findings at that that time. Its been many years since I've dug out the Thomas cars and gave them a good look. The Columbia tank color scheme you reported as being the most common, Blue & Red (Blue & Maroon) was the one I had in mind also, not the Black & Red, and is probaby most common color scheme universally for this road name. Dug out about half the Thomas cars I have. Found the other Thomas kit that has two color schemes. That one is Mathieson Chemical. The most common scheme with that one by far is Black; the other variation for Mathieson is "army green" (Olive Drab), and is quite scarce. As some of these cars may be confused with Globe, I'm listing the Road numbers and reporting marks for the Thomas cars here. One thing to be pointed out is that Thomas used only one number whereas Globe had three different ones. This goes for any of Thomas' color variations also. Columbia Southern GATX 3689 Philgas PSPX 15001 Mathieson Chemical MAWX 994 Sinclair SDRX 13168 ApCo APDX 8295 DX Sunray SRDX 55 Baker's Chocolate GATX 31058 Ambrose Wine NATX 6303 Roma Wine GATX 992 Will complete the picture as I come across the rest of the kits (have many doubles stored somewhere in the collection, as the price was right at the time). Ray W. On Yahoogroups.com, "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...> wrote: > > The most common color for a Thomas Columbia Southern in the Philadelphia, PA > area is blue and maroon. I have owned built rebuilt a number of these > cars, I own one of the two (I know there are more) black and red Columbia > Southern cars that I have ever seen. My black and red car needs lots of > work, so I'm looking for a nice RTR black and red; ifone is available. > > Garry Spear > > On 6/5/07, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: > > > > Garry, The Red & Black Columbia Southern is the most common paint > > scheme for this Thomas tank car, not that any are common. I believe > > the other variation of this roadname might be two-tone green, but > > I'll have to check on that first. As I wrote Don, "it may take some > > doing," I'll have to dig into the collection stored in the attic to > > find them. This may take a few days as I have numerous large cartons > > with literally thousands of vintage kits of all makes. > > > > While each manufacturer has been grouped together in these cartons, > > unfortunatelly, I never labeled the cartons as to their contents. As > > I said I'd get this info dug out if there was interest, that's not a > > problem. It may take a little time, but I like going through the old > > stuff. Let me know if there's any other info you might need on any > > other obscure manufacturers while I'm at it. This will give me an > > excuse to switch out some of the built up stuff for the layout at the > > same time. Ray Wetzel > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com>, "Garry > > Spear" <garrettspear@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I have a Columbia Southern in Red and Black, what other Thomas color > > > variations are there? > > > > > > Garry Spear > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4029	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 6/26/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac

And I thought I was the only one who noticed that! Within the New One/GHC/Aristo Craft locos the C&NW 4-4-2 and the Reading Camelback 0-4- 0 seem to be the worst for turning into dust. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote: > > "New One" must have bought their casting material from the local junk > dealer. They are notorious for crumbling. I recently combined three of > mine into 1 2/3 (the other 1/3 coming from brass castings and a spare > tender); no telling how much longer these will last. I had to be crazy to > spend my time salvaging these. . . . JerryG >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4030	From: Garry Spear	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Old PFM Cataloges for sale + one Gem

I have been given a stack of old PFM cataloges; these are duplicates which I plan to sell.. As a lot I'm asking $60.00 with Media Mail included; Priotity Mail available at extra cost. Too heavy for first class mail. I not sold; I will price them seperately, then ebay them. Current eBay prices are $8 to $12 for most with the 7th. Edition more. PFM: 7th. EDITION EIGHTH EDITION NINTH EDITION - "1964" hand written on cover 10th. ANNIVERSARY 1965 - "Jenkintown Hobby Center" stamp on cover ELEVENTH EDITION - dog eared cover and first few pages THIRTEENTH EDITION - "1969" hand written on cover 14th EDITION Gem 1966-67 Garrett (Garry) Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4031	From: Garry Spear	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value

A friend is thinking of selling his original kit Mantua Atlantic & Pacific. What are the current values, eBay selling prices, or ???? of these items. Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4032	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value

Hello Garry, It depennds on the condition and the season. I have sold an all brass parts chassis and boiler for a pacific with a brass steam chest and brass trailing truck for $153. Dan Bush sold a complete built engine and tender fot $150. I just purchased a complete built pacific for $100, but this is the off season. I have never seen an atlantic offered, but it is my understanding thatthey are more rare than the pacific, by a ratio of 3:1. In kit form, with the box, I would put the Pacific at $200+/-. The atlantic, might be worth that much even without the box. It is hard to say, since the only one I have ever seen, I accidentally found in my collection and have no idea from which lot of engines I purchased, it came in.    Whatever your friend does, make sure he takes good pictures, and sells it later in the year, say October. ...and Do not list/sell it such that it ends on a Friday or Saturday night.   Hope this helps.. Sean Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> wrote: A friend is thinking of selling his original kit Mantua Atlantic & Pacific. What are the current values, eBay selling prices, or ???? of these items. Garry Spear Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4033	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Fwd: Some photos for you!

Attachments : Note: forwarded message attached. Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4034	From: Yardbird Trains	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value

Sean, Actually, mine went for $152.50.  That's the beauty of ebay!   BTW,  if you know anyone who's interested in hand laying track, here is a super listing for the brass rail!  Normally you can find the roadbed, but not so often the rail.  This fellow has 3 lots of 60' and is starting them off low.   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=484&item=260134344717   Dan Bush     ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value Hello Garry, It depennds on the condition and the season. I have sold an all brass parts chassis and boiler for a pacific with a brass steam chest and brass trailing truck for $153. Dan Bush sold a complete built engine and tender fot $150. I just purchased a complete built pacific for $100, but this is the off season. I have never seen an atlantic offered, but it is my understanding thatthey are more rare than the pacific, by a ratio of 3:1. In kit form, with the box, I would put the Pacific at $200+/-. The atlantic, might be worth that much even without the box. It is hard to say, since the only one I have ever seen, I accidentally found in my collection and have no idea from which lot of engines I purchased, it came in.    Whatever your friend does, make sure he takes good pictures, and sells it later in the year, say October. ...and Do not list/sell it such that it ends on a Friday or Saturday night.   Hope this helps.. Sean Garry Spear <garrettspear@ gmail.com> wrote: A friend is thinking of selling his original kit Mantua Atlantic & Pacific. What are the current values, eBay selling prices, or ???? of these items. Garry Spear Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4035	From: sean naylor	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value

That is right.. I forgot.. Thanks Dan. Yardbird Trains <danrbush@...> wrote: Sean, Actually, mine went for $152.50.  That's the beauty of ebay!   BTW,  if you know anyone who's interested in hand laying track, here is a super listing for the brass rail!  Normally you can find the roadbed, but not so often the rail.  This fellow has 3 lots of 60' and is starting them off low.   http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem&category=484&item=260134344717 Dan Bush   ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value Hello Garry, It depennds on the condition and the season. I have sold an all brass parts chassis and boiler for a pacific with a brass steam chest and brass trailing truck for $153. Dan Bush sold a complete built engine and tender fot $150. I just purchased a complete built pacific for $100, but this is the off season. I have never seen an atlantic offered, but it is my understanding thatthey are more rare than the pacific, by a ratio of 3:1. In kit form, with the box, I would put the Pacific at $200+/-. The atlantic, might be worth that much even without the box. It is hard to say, since the only one I have ever seen, I accidentally found in my collection and have no idea from which lot of engines I purchased, it came in.    Whatever your friend does, make sure he takes good pictures, and sells it later in the year, say October. ...and Do not list/sell it such that it ends on a Friday or Saturday night.   Hope this helps.. Sean Garry Spear <garrettspear@ gmail.com> wrote: A friend is thinking of selling his original kit Mantua Atlantic & Pacific. What are the current values, eBay selling prices, or ???? of these items. Garry Spear Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4036	From: Glenn476	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value

don't know--got my Pacific from an estate about ten or more years ago--but I could be interested in the Atlantic--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry Spear To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 4:15 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value A friend is thinking of selling his original kit Mantua Atlantic & Pacific. What are the current values, eBay selling prices, or ???? of these items. Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4037	From: donvdh	Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Zamac question, again. Sorry

According to some of the reading I've been doing zamac is not a true alloy but a suspension of components mixed together but not absorbed as in a solution. The component materials maintain their individual qualities. Incompatible components work against each other causing decomposition of the mixture they are a part of. Maybe if someone is a structural engineer they could explain that more precisely. Now the questions - Is this decomposition a result of - or partial result of - electrolysis occurring between the noncompatible component materials in zamac? Zamac carries electrical current - can it be safely anodized or would this also increase the decomposition rate by introducing another material into the surface layer of the material? Super glue as a protective coating was mentioned several times. Would anodizing also, rather than encouraging decomposition, place a protective coating around the material effectively sealing atmospheric conditions out? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4038	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

I need some help identifying a brass 0-6-0 switcher. I know it is Japanese because the keeper plate under the drivers says "Japan" on it. Other than that, it is unlike any 0-6-0 I have seen in any of the brass guide books. I have posted two photos of it in the photos section under the name "Japanese 0-6-0." I have a link below but it might not work. http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/browse/5dbd?c= The enlongated dome is what makes this one so difficult to identify. It looks like some builder took a dome from a Japanese loco and put it on a US loco for export. The piping is similar to some of the Japanese prototype locos of this era. On the other hand, the cab, boiler and cylinders are pure USRA, the tender looks to be from an 0- 4-0. When I bought it, it was covered in thick blue enamel paint but otherwise appeared to be all original. Just curious if any of you have ever seen one of these before. Thanks Matt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4039	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac question, again. Sorry

Don, This is more of a question for a chemical engineer. What the description you quoted is saying is that zamac is a mixture not an alloy (in an alloy, the metal ions mix completely and bond to each other as they would in a pure metal,) and if that mixutre contains metals that naturally cause electron flow (copper and zinc are two) then the entire mixture becomes sort of a low-current battery that would cause it to move electrons from the anodic to the cathodic materials. Over time the material would simply de-bond (which we see all the time) because the electrons (which hold all metals together) have all moved from their outer shells. I used to work in materials science and this is one of those classic problems you get when usin dissimilar materials in contructions. We have all heard about people who used aluminum and steel on a sail boat only to find that with the salt water it made a perfect battery and ate away all of the aluminum. The same thing would occur in zamac if you had the wrong materials. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > According to some of the reading I've been doing zamac is not a true alloy but a suspension of components mixed together but not absorbed as in a solution. The component materials maintain their individual qualities. Incompatible components work against each other causing decomposition of the mixture they are a part of. Maybe if someone is a structural engineer they could explain that more precisely. Now the questions - Is this decomposition a result of - or partial result of - electrolysis occurring between the noncompatible component materials in zamac? Zamac carries electrical current - can it be safely anodized or would this also increase the decomposition rate by introducing another material into the surface layer of the material? Super glue as a protective coating was mentioned several times. Would anodizing also, rather than encouraging decomposition, place a protective coating around the material effectively sealing atmospheric conditions out? Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4040	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

Hello Matt.. If a picture of the motor is possible, it might help identifying it. Besides, sometimes the builder markings are on the motor, sucha as tenshodo. mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: I need some help identifying a brass 0-6-0 switcher. I know it is Japanese because the keeper plate under the drivers says "Japan" on it. Other than that, it is unlike any 0-6-0 I have seen in any of the brass guide books. I have posted two photos of it in the photos section under the name "Japanese 0-6-0." I have a link below but it might not work. http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ photos/browse/ 5dbd?c= The enlongated dome is what makes this one so difficult to identify. It looks like some builder took a dome from a Japanese loco and put it on a US loco for export. The piping is similar to some of the Japanese prototype locos of this era. On the other hand, the cab, boiler and cylinders are pure USRA, the tender looks to be from an 0- 4-0. When I bought it, it was covered in thick blue enamel paint but otherwise appeared to be all original. Just curious if any of you have ever seen one of these before. Thanks Matt Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4041	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

Tenshodo, Akane or the early exporter/importer that produced the MILW 2-6-2 Prairie way back when. I have it but it is now packed away. Was it 'International' something? Sure is a very long boiler on that 0-6-0, though. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4042	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

Attachments : Hi Matt,, I can help you with this one. it's an International Model Products (IMP) 0-6-0 Switching Locomotive, however, the tender is not the one that came with it. the tender is for the IMP 0-4-0 switcher. The original for this model was a USRA style rectangular tender. I am attaching a photo of the catalog sheet, however, I am new to the Yahoogroups site, so I may not be up loading the photos to the correct location. Let me know if you cannot open the photo.   Brian   See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4043	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

Don, Brian, and Sean, Thank you all for your quick response! I have a couple of International Models and it is similar in construction. It certainly is an akward looking beast, especially with the long boiler (but in checking with the plans for a USRA 0-6-0) it is within a few inches of the same length. Brian, the page didn't come through since Yahoo strips away any attachements (to prevent viruses.) If you want to try, it is easy enough to load the photo into the photos section -- it kind of walks you through it if you go to it. I would love to see the catalog sheet as that is something that I haven't seen before. And having gone through all this, since I know it isn't as orginally built, if someone on the list wants to swap out for bits of it to restore one of your treasures, ping me off line. The locomotive does have the original motor (I can post a photo of it if anyone is still interested) but since Brian ID'd the loco I wasn't going to for now. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bslook@... wrote: > > Hi Matt,, I can help you with this one. it's an International Model Products > (IMP) 0-6-0 Switching Locomotive, however, the tender is not the one that > came with it. the tender is for the IMP 0-4-0 switcher. The original for this > model was a USRA style rectangular tender. I am attaching a photo of the > catalog sheet, however, I am new to the Yahoogroups site, so I may not be up > loading the photos to the correct location. Let me know if you cannot open the > photo. > > Brian > > > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4044	From: donvdh	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Photo attachments

Brian - I have problems with my provider filtering my picture attachments to vintageho for some reason. I have had to get a direct e-mail address from the in tended recipient and send them directly. Don Van Der Horn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4045	From: donvdh	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: 1980 NMRA Headquarters Express Set

I am selling a complete - Heavy Pacific & tender with 5 passenger cars - Rivarossi-produced set. I would like to be paid $65.00 plus shipping. It has basically been in storage the entire time I have owned it. The cars are all like new, including the boxes. The engine and tender are very good to like new, but no box. Anyone interested please e-mail me at donvdh@... from a new create mail page. I will supply pictures. Mercenary ad done. Sorry Don D. I need to sell this and can't afford to miss any possible venue. Don Van Der Horn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4046	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

When posting photos, attach the .jpg file directly to the message, or upload them to a photo album on the group home page and tell us they're there.  Files that are compressed (i.e. "zip" files) are not permitted as an anti-virus measure.  Many ISP's stripped your pictures from the message, some let them through(I DID see the page), but in the future please dpn't cpmpress the file.   I DO notice that you're using AOL.  They may compress the file without you knowing it, you may note on the home page I mention this, therefore the photo album option is probably best for you.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: bslook@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher Hi Matt,, I can help you with this one. it's an International Model Products (IMP) 0-6-0 Switching Locomotive, however, the tender is not the one that came with it. the tender is for the IMP 0-4-0 switcher. The original for this model was a USRA style rectangular tender. I am attaching a photo of the catalog sheet, however, I am new to the Yahoogroups site, so I may not be up loading the photos to the correct location. Let me know if you cannot open the photo.   Brian   See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4047	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

Hi Don, yes AOL does automatically compress the files. I will load them in a photo album as you suggest. Thanks, Brian See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4048	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

I got the photo and have forwarded it to Matt on his email. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of mmattjcoleman Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:32 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher   Don, Brian, and Sean, Thank you all for your quick response! I have a couple of International Models and it is similar in construction. It certainly is an akward looking beast, especially with the long boiler (but in checking with the plans for a USRA 0-6-0) it is within a few inches of the same length. Brian, the page didn't come through since Yahoo strips away any attachements (to prevent viruses.) If you want to try, it is easy enough to load the photo into the photos section -- it kind of walks you through it if you go to it. I would love to see the catalog sheet as that is something that I haven't seen before. And having gone through all this, since I know it isn't as orginally built, if someone on the list wants to swap out for bits of it to restore one of your treasures, ping me off line. The locomotive does have the original motor (I can post a photo of it if anyone is still interested) but since Brian ID'd the loco I wasn't going to for now. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, bslook@... wrote: > > Hi Matt,, I can help you with this one. it's an International Model Products > (IMP) 0-6-0 Switching Locomotive, however, the tender is not the one that > came with it. the tender is for the IMP 0-4-0 switcher. The original for this > model was a USRA style rectangular tender. I am attaching a photo of the > catalog sheet, however, I am new to the Yahoogroups site, so I may not be up > loading the photos to the correct location. Let me know if you cannot open the > photo. > > Brian > > > > ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol. com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4049	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Posting Images(was:Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher)

Thanks.   I got his file ok, but then I get all the e-mails, not a "daily digest" where the photos are not stored by Uahoo.   Another option(which I use in my business life) is "photobucket.com." Free service, takes only a few minutes to find your way around, apparently unlimited storage. Several download options once you have stored your pics.   Safer than using "removable medium" and 'way safer than storing it in your HD, as photobucket is not apt to crash or deteriorate.   One way I often store important things(files) is to mail them to myself in Yahoo - free, web-based, unlimited storage. Only disadvantage is you have to be on line to see it again. Big deal... accessible from any computer!   My 2 cents' worth.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: When posting photos, attach the .jpg file directly to the message, or upload them to a photo album on the group home page and tell us they're there.  Files that are compressed (i.e. "zip" files) are not permitted as an anti-virus measure.  Many ISP's stripped your pictures from the message, some let them through(I DID see the page), but in the future please dpn't cpmpress the file.   I DO notice that you're using AOL.  They may compress the file without you knowing it, you may note on the home page I mention this, therefore the photo album option is probably best for you.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: bslook@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher Hi Matt,, I can help you with this one. it's an International Model Products (IMP) 0-6-0 Switching Locomotive, however, the tender is not the one that came with it. the tender is for the IMP 0-4-0 switcher. The original for this model was a USRA style rectangular tender. I am attaching a photo of the catalog sheet, however, I am new to the Yahoogroups site, so I may not be up loading the photos to the correct location. Let me know if you cannot open the photo.   Brian   See what's free at AOL.com. Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4050	From: Charles E. Kinzer	Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

I would have also guessed International Models.   There is currently ebay item 280128753375 which is another ungainly 0-6-0 with untypical sand dome, and a belpaire firebox.   Maybe it is an International Models item?  Did they make more than one 0-6-0 I wonder?  Is one or more non-US prototype?  The one on ebay is being sold from Australia.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: mmattjcoleman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 12:32 PM Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher Don, Brian, and Sean, Thank you all for your quick response! I have a couple of International Models and it is similar in construction. It certainly is an akward looking beast, especially with the long boiler (but in checking with the plans for a USRA 0-6-0) it is within a few inches of the same length. Brian, the page didn't come through since Yahoo strips away any attachements (to prevent viruses.) If you want to try, it is easy enough to load the photo into the photos section -- it kind of walks you through it if you go to it. I would love to see the catalog sheet as that is something that I haven't seen before. And having gone through all this, since I know it isn't as orginally built, if someone on the list wants to swap out for bits of it to restore one of your treasures, ping me off line. The locomotive does have the original motor (I can post a photo of it if anyone is still interested) but since Brian ID'd the loco I wasn't going to for now. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, bslook@... wrote: > > Hi Matt,, I can help you with this one. it's an International Model Products > (IMP) 0-6-0 Switching Locomotive, however, the tender is not the one that > came with it. the tender is for the IMP 0-4-0 switcher. The original for this > model was a USRA style rectangular tender. I am attaching a photo of the > catalog sheet, however, I am new to the Yahoogroups site, so I may not be up > loading the photos to the correct location. Let me know if you cannot open the > photo. > > Brian > > > > ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol. com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4051	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

Hi Don, Tenshodo models were imported exclusively by Pacific Fast Mail. However, Akane Models were imported into the US by International Model Products from around 1954 to 1958. Akane then exported their models under the Akane name from 1959 to around 1967. At the same time, they also sold to the US importer, Gem Models, who sold the identical models. There were three early versions (1954-1960) of the Milwaukee 2-6-2 that you mentioned, one imported by International Model Products, one by PFM and another by MB Austin. The PFM & International versions look very similar, however the MB Austin model is given away by the Milwaukee logo embossed into the sides of the tender.   International Models was very upset with their early Japanese builder/suppliers because they would not practice exclusivity with them. It is very apparent in the forward sections of their early catalogs. They threatened law suits, called them cut throats and other choice words. Not a very professional way to do business, but I think they wanted to get the word out any way possible.      They calmed down somewhat once they contracted with Akane Models. I will try to scan the entire catalogs and post them for reference purposes.     Brian See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4052	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

Brian: Thank you... for the information. I was not aware of the IMP diversity in marketing. My IMP brass MILW Prairie model was packed in a red box and was further identified by the high side but short, tender. The coal bunker is a good size but the water section was short. The IMP tender did come with an embossed herald. I do have MILW Prairie models from all three 'houses', IMP, M.B. Austin and PFM. The tenders varied in design, as did the prototype, and the IMP locomotive model was slightly larger than the other two. In service, these locomotives were found all over the system, doing multiple forms of work and many of the 'Patrol' assignments. Pretty much an all service locomotive in its day. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4053	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

Chuck, Thanks for the tip. I looked at the item and if it isn't related to the one I have, someone must have copied it. Brian has shared a lot of info with me (also posted in the photos section) of pages from the International Models catalog sheets. This Pennsy looks to have an idential chassis to the one I have and it has the same tender. Brian noted that International Models used to sell all the locos and tenders separately so you could "mix and match" as your demented tastes desired. Also, it looks like Akane was the builder of the 0-6-0 I have and probably is for the Pennsy 0-6-0 on eBay. Neat stuff! Thanks for sharing the "catch." Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > I would have also guessed International Models. > > There is currently ebay item 280128753375 which is another ungainly 0- 6-0 with untypical sand dome, and a belpaire firebox. > > Maybe it is an International Models item? Did they make more than one 0-6-0 I wonder? Is one or more non-US prototype? The one on ebay is being sold from Australia. > > Chuck Kinzer >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4054	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

Hi Don, I have the three examples also, however, since IMP imported model from many builders, it is likely that they also imported the same model that MB Austin imported. My MB Austin has the embossed tender sides, however the IMP version that I have doesn't. But, as I said this could be a matter of when, and from whom, they purchased the models. You are correct, the tenders do vary from one to the other.   Thanks, Brian See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4055	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher

A lot of the early imports were often a bit strange--since the US importers did not often check and monitor what was being built.  Max Gray once told me of a model having a rectangular sand dome because a top view plan had not been provided.  Akane did an SP AC-10 with the nicest little louvered ventilators where the Train Indicator boards were--they figured it must be a ventilator.   It took guys like Max Gray and Bill Ryan who actually went over to Japan to supervise production to begin to get real quality in the models.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: bslook@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:29 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher Hi Don, Tenshodo models were imported exclusively by Pacific Fast Mail. However, Akane Models were imported into the US by International Model Products from around 1954 to 1958. Akane then exported their models under the Akane name from 1959 to around 1967. At the same time, they also sold to the US importer, Gem Models, who sold the identical models. There were three early versions (1954-1960) of the Milwaukee 2-6-2 that you mentioned, one imported by International Model Products, one by PFM and another by MB Austin. The PFM & International versions look very similar, however the MB Austin model is given away by the Milwaukee logo embossed into the sides of the tender.   International Models was very upset with their early Japanese builder/suppliers because they would not practice exclusivity with them. It is very apparent in the forward sections of their early catalogs. They threatened law suits, called them cut throats and other choice words. Not a very professional way to do business, but I think they wanted to get the word out any way possible.      They calmed down somewhat once they contracted with Akane Models. I will try to scan the entire catalogs and post them for reference purposes.     Brian See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4056	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Surplus tem

While looking for another kit I ran across two Lambert #693 HO thru plate girder bridges--new in the boxes--what I really need is the deck versions--anyone got some they'd like to trade?  These are brass and have the full floor structure--gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4057	From: tubamarx	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: International Model products catalog

Brian, thanks for taking time to scan the International Model products catalog. I add that info to the files.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4058	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: International Model products catalog

Hi, unfortunately, they didn't seem to blow up very clearly. I don't know if it loaded the images in a lower resolution or what could have happened. The scans on my computer are very clear, even when super enlarged. Maybe someone can help me with this? If anyone wants the zip file sent directly to them, just let me know. I plan to upload an earlier catalog and a later catalog, as well.   Brian     See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4059	From: trainliker	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: International Model products catalog

To maintain resolution, such things need to be put in the "Files" section, not the "Photo" section. I think Yahoo forces the resolution of photos to something that doesn't take much bandwidth. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bslook@... wrote: > > Hi, unfortunately, they didn't seem to blow up very clearly. I don't know if > it loaded the images in a lower resolution or what could have happened. The > scans on my computer are very clear, even when super enlarged. Maybe someone > can help me with this? If anyone wants the zip file sent directly to them, > just let me know. I plan to upload an earlier catalog and a later catalog, as > well. > > Brian >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4060	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: International Model products catalog

Thanks Chuck, I will try that.   Brian See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4061	From: tubamarx	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box

I posted some pictures of a set I picked up last year. It is in a wooden set box that has a Tenshodo plate on the front. It contains a 0-6-0 loco that is missing a piece or two and it has a bunch of cars. Does anyone have an idea for parts? I'm looking for any info on the date of the set and who might have sold them in the US. I have several other Tenshodo freight cars in their indivual boxes that I think date to the early 50's. Also take a look at the roadbed. It looks like a copy of True-Scale. It was packaged in the setbox. I would like to get any info people might be able to share. Thanks and Have a Great 4th Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4062	From: curmudgeon	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box

"This album is currently empty" > I posted some pictures of a set I picked up last year. It is in a > wooden set box that has a Tenshodo plate on the front. It contains a > 0-6-0 loco that is missing a piece or two and it has a bunch of cars. > Does anyone have an idea for parts? I'm looking for any info on the > date of the set and who might have sold them in the US. I have several > other Tenshodo freight cars in their indivual boxes that I think date > to the early 50's. Also take a look at the roadbed. It looks like a > copy of True-Scale. It was packaged in the setbox. I would like to get > any info people might be able to share. > > Thanks and Have a Great 4th > > Steve >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4063	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box

Steve, If brian does not, I might. I do know I have two in the scrap box. I am not sure how complete they are. I know one is missing the drive rods and I think the other the motor & rods. But they both have the chests. Sean tubamarx <sanderson@...> wrote: I posted some pictures of a set I picked up last year. It is in a wooden set box that has a Tenshodo plate on the front. It contains a 0-6-0 loco that is missing a piece or two and it has a bunch of cars. Does anyone have an idea for parts? I'm looking for any info on the date of the set and who might have sold them in the US. I have several other Tenshodo freight cars in their indivual boxes that I think date to the early 50's. Also take a look at the roadbed. It looks like a copy of True-Scale. It was packaged in the setbox. I would like to get any info people might be able to share. Thanks and Have a Great 4th Steve Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4064	From: curmudgeon	Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box

You must have been adding the second album when I looked first time and only found the empty one....which is still there. I've seen that engine before. Been a lot of years. Rough shape. Pilot, stack, cylinders, crossheads, headlight at least. The couplers look like Fleischman or the Varney chopper type. Gondola....Zamac? Gonna be nice when you get it done. Get that brush-applied yellow paint off the caboose! If you can't get the "right" stuff, I'd bet you could adapt Mantua or Varney cylinders crossheads and pilot to it. At least until you can get the correct stuff. > I posted some pictures of a set I picked up last year. It is in a > wooden set box that has a Tenshodo plate on the front. It contains a > 0-6-0 loco that is missing a piece or two and it has a bunch of cars. > Does anyone have an idea for parts? I'm looking for any info on the > date of the set and who might have sold them in the US. I have several > other Tenshodo freight cars in their indivual boxes that I think date > to the early 50's. Also take a look at the roadbed. It looks like a > copy of True-Scale. It was packaged in the setbox. I would like to get > any info people might be able to share. > > Thanks and Have a Great 4th > > Steve >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4065	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box

Hey Guys,   Look in my folders:   Some Of My Many Projects   Page 1: Tenshodo 0-6-0 1 Page 2: Tenshodo 0-6-0 2   Both show the tenshodo that I you have.     and these listings of mine that did not sell... 330115440929  330128225202  330110198900   and these listings of mine that did sell...  330097827017 330049368958 (photos are gone, but you see what they can sell for on a good day)   I can not find the third that did sell. Within the last ten minutes of the auction, someone bid over $114 revealing the high bidders max bid of $114 and then retracted his bid with five minutes remaining. Noone els bid and it sold for $28. I was mad and stated puting reserves on the auctions of the Tenshodo 060s and have not sold one since... so much for reserves.   Later! Sean curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: You must have been adding the second album when I looked first time and only found the empty one....which is still there. I've seen that engine before. Been a lot of years. Rough shape. Pilot, stack, cylinders, crossheads, headlight at least. The couplers look like Fleischman or the Varney chopper type. Gondola....Zamac? Gonna be nice when you get it done. Get that brush-applied yellow paint off the caboose! If you can't get the "right" stuff, I'd bet you could adapt Mantua or Varney cylinders crossheads and pilot to it. At least until you can get the correct stuff. > I posted some pictures of a set I picked up last year. It is in a > wooden set box that has a Tenshodo plate on the front. It contains a > 0-6-0 loco that is missing a piece or two and it has a bunch of cars. > Does anyone have an idea for parts? I'm looking for any info on the > date of the set and who might have sold them in the US. I have several > other Tenshodo freight cars in their indivual boxes that I think date > to the early 50's. Also take a look at the roadbed. It looks like a > copy of True-Scale. It was packaged in the setbox. I would like to get > any info people might be able to share. > > Thanks and Have a Great 4th > > Steve > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4066	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box

I found pictures of the one that sold for $28 Someone had kitbashed it with a Mantua 060 chassis. It mated up quite nicely. I would have liked to see what it really would have gone fore, if that buthead had not bid and then retracted his bid within the last 5 minutes.   I uploaded three new pics in my Some of My Many Projects folder:   Tenshodo 060 I sold 1 Tenshodo 060 I sold 2 Tenshodo 060 I sold 3   Sean Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4067	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: needs-wants

Attachments : A couple things in the scrap box I'll never use. Sale / trade / donate to a worthy cause, whatever? Gilbert/AF HO PRR 0-6-0 boiler casting, no smokebox front. Lindsay frame, seems solid Varney celluloid combine sides, two tone gray. What I NEED now is 2 Athearn late (inside bearing) axle gears 4 bronze bearings 2 AAR type B sideframes (used on the late (inside bearing)) U-boats These are to finish what was originally going to be a Soo Line GP-30, now going to be Milwaukee Northern. Front Range modified shell on a modified Athearn GP-35 drive. Parts were lost about 15 years ago when the cat sent a work in progress to the floor, I've dug it out to see if I can finish it. It would have been a buck's worth of parts at Walthers back in the pre-Horizon days, now nobody wants to carry them. Other items I can always use...... Varney celluloid streamliner sides, combine / coach / diner / either pullman (anything except the baggage/mail or the observation) in the BLUE & GOLD. Athearn F-7 drive units (no shells), post Hi-Fi geared, any motor, no flywheel, flywheel, or super-geared, running. Write me offlist don.dellmann@... Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4068	From: Scott	Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Hoboken/Weehawken Waterfront

Does anyone have any reference material of the Hoboken/Weehawken waterfront? This is my area of interest and I'm going to model it. I'm extremely interested in the car floats and the warehouses down there. I wish I knew then when I was little as my dad used to take us down there and drive around the rail yards in the 70's on the way up to Hiram's and Callahan's. I would have taken lots of photos. I really missed out on that golden opportunity. But alas, back then as a 5 to 10 year old, I didn't have that interest in model railroading. If anyone can has anything that might be of interest, let me know.   Thanks all....Happy 4th of July all!   Scott

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4069	From: donvdh	Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Newark, Port Newark, Hoboken, Jersey City, Staten Island waterfront

Scott, Coincidentally and having nothing to do with your question, I grew up in Clifton and we did a lot of the same thing. Now same regrets, especially the Central of New Jersey into Hoboken Terminal. Try writing or calling the City travel or information bureaus, or the State of New Jersey Tourist Information Office. I have looked up cities on the web, gotten their websites and was able to get addresses and sometimes phone numbers for these offices. Don Van Der Horn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4070	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Fwd: International Model Products

Attachments : Dave, just a follow up on my earlier email. The photo of the early 4-4-0 model from my collection differs slightly from the one that you had sent me earlier. However, they are the same model. I made the changes to mine several years ago, by changing the drivers to a larger size, changing the tender trucks, lead truck, headlight, and pilot. I believe my model has the original bell although it is different from the one in your photo.   Regards, Brian See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4071	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Re: IMP 4-4-0 question response

Hi Dave,   I have looked at the models in my collection and have some information to forward to you regarding your earlier question. While I cannot confirm that the locomotive shown in your photo is what the sender claimed (V&T #12), I can point out some items.   First, after inspection of my copy of the model that the person sent the photo of, I find many differences from the IMP model of 1954 & up.   The model that IMP advertised in their catalogs from 1954, up, was different than the ones advertised by them in earlier catalogs. The later model was made by Akane and was the exact model that Akane sold under their name also. It was advertised as "Old Timer", just as the IMP version was.   The model in the photo that you had attached was an earlier IMP import, however, it was completely different than the later Akane made model. First, it is much larger than the Akane model. It is much more crude in construction and very poor running model. It also appears to have similar construction to the models built for Tetsudo and sold to importers as being built by Tetsudo.   See the attached photos of some of the ones from my collection. I have included photos of an Akane 4-4-0 "Old Timer" kit that I have, it is roughly the same size as the V&T #11 imported by PFM. The V&T #11 models in the photos are for size comparison since they are not the subject of this issue. I have place the V&T #11 PFM models on either side of the early IMP import for comparison (again, the Akane model is the same size as the PFM). I have also included some pages from reference books (Lenahan's Vol. II & Vol. III). These photos are of the IMP import (early) and the Akane Import (the same model IMP imported later).   Also, you will see that the reference book says the Akane import is actually a PRR D-3 4-4-0 (again the same as the later IMP model), shown in the IMP catalog.   In summary, I have concluded from the information that I have,  IMP imported two totally different 4-4-0 "Old Timer" models in the early years. One in the early 50's and another after they became involved with Akane Models (the later having some variations, as shown in "The Art of Brass" book). None of which would be considered, in my opinion, the V&T #12 engine because of obvious differences.   Let me conclude by saying, the results of my research is based on the information that is available to me and, by no means, should be considered concrete evidence of my conclusions. I will keep looking, as I enjoy this type of work, and if I find anything that I can add which may confirm or change my conclusion, I will forward it to you.   By the way, I have over 250 brass models in my collection, ranging from 1950 to the mid 1990's, if there are any other questions that I can help with, please, don't hesitate to ask.   Regards, Brian   PS: I tried several times to send this with an attachment and it kept getting kicked back because it exceeded the receiving mailbox file size limits. I am going to post them in the files or photos section of the vintage HO group. See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4072	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Hoboken/Weehawken Waterfront

Hello Scott: Try Anthraciterr@.... Lots of NJ chatter there. I'm sure we all have regrets about what we could of,should of but didn't do for various reasons. I grew up around the old B&M and never saw an F or an E unit or a BL-2. I sure they were there but I didn't see them. If only we could time travel. Regards, Al Campbell See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4073	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: International Model Products

Hi, the black & red model seems to be identical to one of my locos - I got it labeled "Nevada County Narrow Gauge Donkey" (although it is standard gauge!) or similar,by International; dont know where I have the box and sheet right now. a very distinctive feature is that the front tender truck is mounted so it can move sideways, to allow the motor shaft and worm shaft to stay in line. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4074	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: International Model Products

Hi Gerald,   The black and the black and red models are actually PFM V&T #11 Reno engines. I used them as a comparison for size of the other engine. I found more information of these models this evening and will try to post it this weekend.   Regards, Brian See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4075	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard Novelty Co

Hi, all, I have a quite a few cars that are marked 'Picard Novelty Co', Westery, R.I> on the bottom. These are mostly wooden cards, some with paper overlays on the sides. Recently, I was watching an eBay auction for fourteen cars, missed the auction due to a hospital visit, and had the seller sell me the cars outside of eBay. Most of the cars marked Picard have metal skeleton frames underneath, (Though someone still had Varney high-center trucks on them, making the cars very unstable and ride too high). The eBay auction number is 250128780279- it's an ended auction. But at least there are pics of all the cars if you need to see them. Some, like the reefers and the Shell tank car, are Mantua, and the Pennsy gondola, I don't know who made it (Though I have two of them now!). The local hobby shop owner thinks Picard was a prewar company, but doesn't know for sure. And Google doesn't turn up much of anything. Any info would be appreciated. I'd like to know what I have and who Picard was. -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4076	From: John Barlow	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co

Steve,   A question: Does the Pennsy gondola have the number G-101 marked toward the bottom right as you look at it?   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) railwaymodeler <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: Hi, all, I have a quite a few cars that are marked 'Picard Novelty Co', Westery, R.I> on the bottom. These are mostly wooden cards, some with paper overlays on the sides. Recently, I was watching an eBay auction for fourteen cars, missed the auction due to a hospital visit, and had the seller sell me the cars outside of eBay. Most of the cars marked Picard have metal skeleton frames underneath, (Though someone still had Varney high-center trucks on them, making the cars very unstable and ride too high). The eBay auction number is 250128780279- it's an ended auction. But at least there are pics of all the cars if you need to see them. Some, like the reefers and the Shell tank car, are Mantua, and the Pennsy gondola, I don't know who made it (Though I have two of them now!). The local hobby shop owner thinks Picard was a prewar company, but doesn't know for sure. And Google doesn't turn up much of anything. Any info would be appreciated. I'd like to know what I have and who Picard was. -Steve Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4077	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co

There is an excellent writeup on the Picard Novelty company history in a 1942 MR that I have. I can't access it right now as I am on a three-week deployment but Steve if you will email me in about three weeks I will dig it out and scan it for the files. The Picard Novelty company was owned by a gentleman with the last name of Picard. He had owned a taxicab company in NYC during the 20s and 30s but got out of the business during the depression (I got the impression that the company went bankrupt) and started making wood novelty items. Picard was a skilled woodworker as a hobby and converted that skill into a business making promotional and novelty items. He was a model railroader too and made some wood railroad car bodies for himself and sold a few to friends. The line grew from there and was active during WWII because wood was not a restricted material. I gathered that the line gradually folded as Picard grew older and the other manufacturers resumed model kit construction after the war. The kits are nice and VERY collectible, if only for the history of early HO. Neat stuff! Glad it went into the hands of someone on this list. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, all, > > I have a quite a few cars that are marked 'Picard Novelty Co', > Westery, R.I> on the bottom. These are mostly wooden cards, some with > paper overlays on the sides. > > Recently, I was watching an eBay auction for fourteen cars, missed the > auction due to a hospital visit, and had the seller sell me the cars > outside of eBay. Most of the cars marked Picard have metal skeleton > frames underneath, (Though someone still had Varney high-center trucks > on them, making the cars very unstable and ride too high). > > The eBay auction number is 250128780279- it's an ended auction. But at > least there are pics of all the cars if you need to see them. Some, > like the reefers and the Shell tank car, are Mantua, and the Pennsy > gondola, I don't know who made it (Though I have two of them now!). > > The local hobby shop owner thinks Picard was a prewar company, but > doesn't know for sure. And Google doesn't turn up much of anything. > > Any info would be appreciated. I'd like to know what I have and who > Picard was. > > -Steve >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4078	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co

Can't see any G-101 on either gondola. The one I already had is much cleaner than the one I just got. There is the Pennsy's car class of G27 marked in the third panel from the right. That's about it. Thanks Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Steve, > > A question: Does the Pennsy gondola have the number G-101 marked toward the bottom right as you look at it? > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) > > railwaymodeler <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > Hi, all, > > I have a quite a few cars that are marked 'Picard Novelty Co', > Westery, R.I> on the bottom. These are mostly wooden cards, some with > paper overlays on the sides. > > Recently, I was watching an eBay auction for fourteen cars, missed the > auction due to a hospital visit, and had the seller sell me the cars > outside of eBay. Most of the cars marked Picard have metal skeleton > frames underneath, (Though someone still had Varney high-center trucks > on them, making the cars very unstable and ride too high). > > The eBay auction number is 250128780279- it's an ended auction. But at > least there are pics of all the cars if you need to see them. Some, > like the reefers and the Shell tank car, are Mantua, and the Pennsy > gondola, I don't know who made it (Though I have two of them now!). > > The local hobby shop owner thinks Picard was a prewar company, but > doesn't know for sure. And Google doesn't turn up much of anything. > > Any info would be appreciated. I'd like to know what I have and who > Picard was. > > -Steve > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4079	From: John Barlow	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co

Dear Steve,   The G27 is good, although I don't know how prototypical the whole car is. The PRR had  G27, but way back the Varney folks released a gond with a "G-101" or "G101" that the less expensive plastic car manufacturers copied, most probably using the old Varney molds and/or most certainly their screens or a copy thereof. Simply, the PRR never had a G101 series gond. Where did that number come from? Old Varney advertisements show it was really the Varney catalog number, copied down through the decades. Find a Varney G101...you have a classic, collectible fraud. (Revell did a G27 in its time.)   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)  railwaymodeler <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: Can't see any G-101 on either gondola. The one I already had is much cleaner than the one I just got. There is the Pennsy's car class of G27 marked in the third panel from the right. That's about it. Thanks Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote: > > Steve, > > A question: Does the Pennsy gondola have the number G-101 marked toward the bottom right as you look at it? > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@ ...) > > railwaymodeler <computersystemrebu ild@...> wrote: > Hi, all, > > I have a quite a few cars that are marked 'Picard Novelty Co', > Westery, R.I> on the bottom. These are mostly wooden cards, some with > paper overlays on the sides. > > Recently, I was watching an eBay auction for fourteen cars, missed the > auction due to a hospital visit, and had the seller sell me the cars > outside of eBay. Most of the cars marked Picard have metal skeleton > frames underneath, (Though someone still had Varney high-center trucks > on them, making the cars very unstable and ride too high). > > The eBay auction number is 250128780279- it's an ended auction. But at > least there are pics of all the cars if you need to see them. Some, > like the reefers and the Shell tank car, are Mantua, and the Pennsy > gondola, I don't know who made it (Though I have two of them now!). > > The local hobby shop owner thinks Picard was a prewar company, but > doesn't know for sure. And Google doesn't turn up much of anything. > > Any info would be appreciated. I'd like to know what I have and who > Picard was. > > -Steve > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4080	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co

The markings are pretty good, but the carbody design is lacking a bit- the walls are mae of wood about 1/8" thick, with stamped foil overlays. Looks quite nice, especially my clean one. I also have a quad bay open top hopper of same construction design and same shade of maroon. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Dear Steve, > > The G27 is good, although I don't know how prototypical the whole car is. The PRR had G27, but way back the Varney folks released a gond with a "G-101" or "G101" that the less expensive plastic car manufacturers copied, most probably using the old Varney molds and/or most certainly their screens or a copy thereof. Simply, the PRR never had a G101 series gond. Where did that number come from? Old Varney advertisements show it was really the Varney catalog number, copied down through the decades. Find a Varney G101...you have a classic, collectible fraud. > (Revell did a G27 in its time.) > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) > > railwaymodeler <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > Can't see any G-101 on either gondola. The one I already had is much > cleaner than the one I just got. There is the Pennsy's car class of > G27 marked in the third panel from the right. That's about it. > > Thanks > Steve > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > > > Steve, > > > > A question: Does the Pennsy gondola have the number G-101 marked > toward the bottom right as you look at it? > > > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@) > > > > railwaymodeler <computersystemrebuild@> wrote: > > Hi, all, > > > > I have a quite a few cars that are marked 'Picard Novelty Co', > > Westery, R.I> on the bottom. These are mostly wooden cards, some with > > paper overlays on the sides. > > > > Recently, I was watching an eBay auction for fourteen cars, missed the > > auction due to a hospital visit, and had the seller sell me the cars > > outside of eBay. Most of the cars marked Picard have metal skeleton > > frames underneath, (Though someone still had Varney high-center trucks > > on them, making the cars very unstable and ride too high). > > > > The eBay auction number is 250128780279- it's an ended auction. But at > > least there are pics of all the cars if you need to see them. Some, > > like the reefers and the Shell tank car, are Mantua, and the Pennsy > > gondola, I don't know who made it (Though I have two of them now!). > > > > The local hobby shop owner thinks Picard was a prewar company, but > > doesn't know for sure. And Google doesn't turn up much of anything. > > > > Any info would be appreciated. I'd like to know what I have and who > > Picard was. > > > > -Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on > Yahoo! TV. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4081	From: Mike Christian	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard Co.

Howdy, I have been lurking here for a spell, but haven't had much info to contribute on the topics being discussed. However, I was able to find a little bit (very little) about Picard. Perhaps Steve already knows this much, but maybe this will be of some use to him. The following material was found in the now defunct HO SCALE COLLECTORS & HISTORY SIG quarterly publication THE REPORTING MARK: April 1989 Vol7#3 page 6 Company name & Address: Picard Novelty Co. of Westerly, Rhode Island The company name and address was on applied to the floor of kits, and some kits also had the name on the car body (I assume on the inside). April 1992 Vol 10 #3 page 3: It is mentioned that Champ Decal made paper car sides to fit the "popular Picard wood kits". In that same issue on page 7 Howell Day confirms that Max Gray (when he owned Champ) did release reefer sides. As I am sure you all know, Mr. Day was the owner of THE MODEL RR SHOP for years, as well as the owner of RED BALL. The NMRA is presently planning a museum to house the complete set of RED BALL assembled kits he donated to the NMRA a few years back. Unfortunately THE REPORTING MARK is no longer published. Dave Spanagel (the founder of the HOSCH Sig and Editor) started the group in 1982 and decided he wanted to enjoy retirement without deadlines (can't blame him for that) at the end of 2005. The magazine was a great help to collectors as it listed virtually all the old HO manufacturer's lines. I guess no had info on Picard or it would have been published. Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4082	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co

----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 7:04 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Picard Novelty Co > The markings are pretty good, but the carbody design is lacking a bit- > the walls are mae of wood about 1/8" thick, with stamped foil > overlays. Looks quite nice, especially my clean one. I also have a > quad bay open top hopper of same construction design and same shade of > maroon. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: On the group home page, in the photo albums, in the album "zDon Dellmann's stuff/misc" there's two quad hoppers I can't identify, MP 31495 & CCC&StL 716431, Can you look at them and see if they're the same as yours? I wonder if perchance those are are actually Picard's? Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4083	From: tubamarx	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard Info

I just posted a copy of a Picard Price List as well as a 6 page Tri-fold. I think The cars may have also be sold in a bulk form as well as kits. I have two boxes maked Picard that are about a foot long that contain wooden parts and car sides. If someone would have a list of car sides for Picard I would love a copy.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4084	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co

Don (and all), Those carbodies look just like my Pennsy hopper. I believe they are prewar, for one reason:] K-Line, a Rival to Lionel, put out a hobby book in the late '80s (My copy is from then), and used for the first half, old reprints from Lionel dating back to the late '30s. Much of the photos were OO scale, and the book even still mentions OO here and there. Under the article of how to build a mining structure, is a photo of a hopper that is dead on for what I have. Remember these are prewar articles, so I believe this hopper was made in the prewar era at least. Good book to have for those who do vintage style modeling with cardstock and basswood. The title is 'Operating O and O-27 Trains'. -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 7:04 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Picard Novelty Co > > > > The markings are pretty good, but the carbody design is lacking a bit- > > the walls are mae of wood about 1/8" thick, with stamped foil > > overlays. Looks quite nice, especially my clean one. I also have a > > quad bay open top hopper of same construction design and same shade of > > maroon. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote: > > On the group home page, in the photo albums, in the album "zDon Dellmann's > stuff/misc" there's two quad hoppers I can't identify, MP 31495 & CCC&StL > 716431, Can you look at them and see if they're the same as yours? I > wonder if perchance those are are actually Picard's? > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4085	From: Imp Ster	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: IMP 4-4-0 ???

say WHAT? heheheh ... > In summary, I have concluded from the information that I have, IMP imported > two totally different 4-4-0 "Old Timer" models in the early years.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4086	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Dry ice car, unknown maker.

Amongst a recent purchase of ancient HO freight car models is a double-sheath wood 40' reefer D.I.C.X 115 "DRY ICE" REFRIGERATOR LINE. The body is wood (identical or near identical to Varney in construction). The sides are printed cardstock with embossed planking, while the ends are printed photo-rotogravure very much like the very earliest Varneys- i.e. as in the late thirties. The lettering is black on white sides. There are no ladders or grabs on the sides, although there are neatly applied wire grabs serving as ladders on the ends. A vertical brake staff and platform are missing, as is the running board. The roof ribs are very fine square wood stock. The trucks are of a type I have never seen before: three cast metal pieces with the bolsters keyed to the side frames with flexible pieces of shaped rubber moldings- pretty sophisticated and not bad looking for the period. The wheels look like Varney (brass). I have a feeling that these trucks are probably from a different supplier. There is no record that Varney had car sides of this type (its R-19 Dry Ice car was of steel construction). Red Ball is always a suspect with printed sides : these sides are not in the 1941 catalogue, and many of M.D. Newton's designs later were destroyed in Red Ball's 1943 fire. Does this description ring any bells. Megow? Lehigh? Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4087	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co

I think that they may have also made car bodies in OO--a lot of the pre-war mfrs hedged their bets by making both sizes--and I think I have some parts marked "Picard Novelty Co."--not that accessible right now.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: railwaymodeler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 12:43 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Picard Novelty Co Don (and all), Those carbodies look just like my Pennsy hopper. I believe they are prewar, for one reason:] K-Line, a Rival to Lionel, put out a hobby book in the late '80s (My copy is from then), and used for the first half, old reprints from Lionel dating back to the late '30s. Much of the photos were OO scale, and the book even still mentions OO here and there. Under the article of how to build a mining structure, is a photo of a hopper that is dead on for what I have. Remember these are prewar articles, so I believe this hopper was made in the prewar era at least. Good book to have for those who do vintage style modeling with cardstock and basswood. The title is 'Operating O and O-27 Trains'. -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebu ild@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 7:04 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Picard Novelty Co > > > > The markings are pretty good, but the carbody design is lacking a bit- > > the walls are mae of wood about 1/8" thick, with stamped foil > > overlays. Looks quite nice, especially my clean one. I also have a > > quad bay open top hopper of same construction design and same shade of > > maroon. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote: > > On the group home page, in the photo albums, in the album "zDon Dellmann's > stuff/misc" there's two quad hoppers I can't identify, MP 31495 & CCC&StL > 716431, Can you look at them and see if they're the same as yours? I > wonder if perchance those are are actually Picard's? > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4088	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.

Denny and list: What comes to my mind is VARNEY during WW 2. IIRC, they offered a wartime line of dry kits, paper and wood, and the three piece trucks with the rubber 'springs' came in these MAINLINE offerings. I do have some of these however, they are packed away and would take considerable time to locate and confirm my thoughts. I know.... I didn't label the cartons as I should have. Another thought now comes to mind, that of plastic cars with these same trucks, minimum details and a very low price. I believe that they were marketed as economy kits by VARNEY. fwiw.... Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4089	From: artrich999@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.

Denny;     Don't know about the car but the trucks are Micro-Motive.  Really good trucks - the Cadillac of HO trucks - at the time!   The rubber was to provide equalization and a modicum of springing.  They were the best!   --- Art Richardson Clinton, MS See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4090	From: curmudgeon	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.

Not sure about Micro Motive being in WWII Varney kits. Jim Hediger at Kalmbach tells me Micro Motive was pre-war, their manufacturing costs were very high ($2 a pair pre-war) and never picked up again after the war. Post war trucks were $.50 a pair.... Varney trucks of the period (like on my paper box) are pressed-or- soldered together three-piece. I have several variants before the shouldered screw type. One set has LONG journals with tabs to bend over to retain the axle stubs once dropped in. The long journals allow "equalization". I even have some others without the sideframes punched out. There is relief shown, but they are THICK. MicroMotive was a separate company, chances are if Varney was out of stock he might have used those. However, all my old Varneys have period trucks, none hd the Micro Motive in them. Dave > Denny and list: What comes to my mind is VARNEY during WW 2. IIRC, > they offered a wartime line of dry kits, paper and wood, and the three > piece trucks with the rubber 'springs' came in these MAINLINE offerings. > > I do have some of these however, they are packed away and would take > considerable time to locate and confirm my thoughts. I know.... I > didn't label the cartons as I should have. > > Another thought now comes to mind, that of plastic cars with these same > trucks, minimum details and a very low price. I believe that they were > marketed as economy kits by VARNEY. > > fwiw.... Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4091	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.

I recall Micromotive ads in MR in the late 40's or early 50's--so they were still around after WWII. I also recall some standard, sprung zamak "Bettendorf" type HO trucks with the rubber spring units in some of the early Athearn plastic boxcar kits. I usually threw out the rubber springs and put in real springs that were available for about a penny each--I would guess about 1955--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 5:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker. Not sure about Micro Motive being in WWII Varney kits. Jim Hediger at Kalmbach tells me Micro Motive was pre-war, their manufacturing costs were very high ($2 a pair pre-war) and never picked up again after the war. Post war trucks were $.50 a pair.... Varney trucks of the period (like on my paper box) are pressed-or- soldered together three-piece. I have several variants before the shouldered screw type. One set has LONG journals with tabs to bend over to retain the axle stubs once dropped in. The long journals allow "equalization" . I even have some others without the sideframes punched out. There is relief shown, but they are THICK. MicroMotive was a separate company, chances are if Varney was out of stock he might have used those. However, all my old Varneys have period trucks, none hd the Micro Motive in them. Dave > Denny and list: What comes to my mind is VARNEY during WW 2. IIRC, > they offered a wartime line of dry kits, paper and wood, and the three > piece trucks with the rubber 'springs' came in these MAINLINE offerings. > > I do have some of these however, they are packed away and would take > considerable time to locate and confirm my thoughts. I know.... I > didn't label the cartons as I should have. > > Another thought now comes to mind, that of plastic cars with these same > trucks, minimum details and a very low price. I believe that they were > marketed as economy kits by VARNEY. > > fwiw.... Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4092	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard

Attachments : I have a started reefer that came in a bag with car sides wood ends, roof and floor.  Might of been called Econo Kit possibly by Wabash Valley.  The floor on this was marked Picard.  My guess is some one put together surplus parts to make up the kit.   Picture attached.   Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4093	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Re: Picard Novelty Co

If anyone is looking for this book, it's up for auctions with 6 other Lionel items on eBAY right now........... Opening bid $7.99, No bids. Ends: 3 hours 2 mins (Jul-07-07 22:15:13 PDT)   I am the lister.   prandn   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:43:39 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Picard Novelty Co Don (and all), Those carbodies look just like my Pennsy hopper. I believe they are prewar, for one reason:] K-Line, a Rival to Lionel, put out a hobby book in the late '80s (My copy is from then), and used for the first half, old reprints from Lionel dating back to the late '30s. Much of the photos were OO scale, and the book even still mentions OO here and there. Under the article of how to build a mining structure, is a photo of a hopper that is dead on for what I have. Remember these are prewar articles, so I believe this hopper was made in the prewar era at least. Good book to have for those who do vintage style modeling with cardstock and basswood. The title is 'Operating O and O-27 Trains'. -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebu ild@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 7:04 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Picard Novelty Co > > > > The markings are pretty good, but the carbody design is lacking a bit- > > the walls are mae of wood about 1/8" thick, with stamped foil > > overlays. Looks quite nice, especially my clean one. I also have a > > quad bay open top hopper of same construction design and same shade of > > maroon. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote: > > On the group home page, in the photo albums, in the album "zDon Dellmann's > stuff/misc" there's two quad hoppers I can't identify, MP 31495 & CCC&StL > 716431, Can you look at them and see if they're the same as yours? I > wonder if perchance those are are actually Picard's? > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best web mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. Check it out!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4094	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard

I have definitely seen that before.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: VINTAGE H-0 Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Picard I have a started reefer that came in a bag with car sides wood ends, roof and floor.  Might of been called Econo Kit possibly by Wabash Valley.  The floor on this was marked Picard.  My guess is some one put together surplus parts to make up the kit.   Picture attached.   Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4095	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: An Interview with Nat Polk

Hi all,   I don't know if any, or all, of you have read this. I came across it sometime back, and found it to be very interesting. It is an interview with Nathan Polk of Polk's Hobbies & the founder of Aristo-Craft Models. It is about six parts long and covers the early years of Aristo-Craft, International Models, AHM, Rivarossi, Walthers, Ideal, AC Gilbert, Lionel (HO), Mantua (Tyler Manufacturing) and many others.   What I found most interesting, were the ties between these early pioneers of HO.   Click on the link below or copy and paste it to you browser window.   Regards, Brian     http://aristocraft.com/articles/nat/nattca1.html See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4096	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: An Interview with Nat Polk

Fascinating.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: bslook@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 5:39 AM Subject: [vintageHO] An Interview with Nat Polk Hi all,   I don't know if any, or all, of you have read this. I came across it sometime back, and found it to be very interesting. It is an interview with Nathan Polk of Polk's Hobbies & the founder of Aristo-Craft Models. It is about six parts long and covers the early years of Aristo-Craft, International Models, AHM, Rivarossi, Walthers, Ideal, AC Gilbert, Lionel (HO), Mantua (Tyler Manufacturing) and many others.   What I found most interesting, were the ties between these early pioneers of HO.   Click on the link below or copy and paste it to you browser window.   Regards, Brian     http://aristocraft.com/articles/nat/nattca1.html See what's free at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4097	From: a69mustang4me	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...

Hello Everyone, Later today, after 4, a woman is supposed to call me. Her Dad had a bunch of Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars. What is the going rate for those?? Right now, I was thinking $18 - $20, but I have no idea. Completed searches revealed nothing (in eBay roundhouse section only). I want to make her a fair offer. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4098	From: rob wiggins	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...

SEAN I found them new in the box pre athearn ones for 13 to 15 each. a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hello Everyone, Later today, after 4, a woman is supposed to call me. Her Dad had a bunch of Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars. What is the going rate for those?? Right now, I was thinking $18 - $20, but I have no idea. Completed searches revealed nothing (in eBay roundhouse section only). I want to make her a fair offer. Thanks, Sean Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4099	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...

Gentlemen: The first die-cast passenger car I saw was put out by a company called "English"; it weighed about a pound, and had square ends on the axles. It would roll about two inches with a hard shove. It didn't sell very well, for some reason. With the quality of plastic and wooden kits today, a die-cast passenger car would be of hysterical interest only to someone creating a museum. Howeever, value is in the wallet of the beholder, and only you can decide how badly you want these. It might take a 4-unit diesel to pull six, unless the trucks got a thorough work-over. a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hello Everyone, Later today, after 4, a woman is supposed to call me. Her Dad had a bunch of Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars. What is the going rate for those?? Right now, I was thinking $18 - $20, but I have no idea. Completed searches revealed nothing (in eBay roundhouse section only). I want to make her a fair offer. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4100	From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...

Sean,   Contact Jay@....   He may be able to help you.   Loren To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: awallace4056@... Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 09:42:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one... Gentlemen: The first die-cast passenger car I saw was put out by a company called "English"; it weighed about a pound, and had square ends on the axles. It would roll about two inches with a hard shove. It didn't sell very well, for some reason. With the quality of plastic and wooden kits today, a die-cast passenger car would be of hysterical interest only to someone creating a museum. Howeever, value is in the wallet of the beholder, and only you can decide how badly you want these. It might take a 4-unit diesel to pull six, unless the trucks got a thorough work-over. a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hello Everyone, Later today, after 4, a woman is supposed to call me. Her Dad had a bunch of Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars. What is the going rate for those?? Right now, I was thinking $18 - $20, but I have no idea. Completed searches revealed nothing (in eBay roundhouse section only). I want to make her a fair offer. Thanks, Sean Missed the show?  Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN. See them now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4101	From: erieberk	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.

Denny, With the reporting marks and the road number that should be easily found out as to what it is. I'll check my Varney and other stuff, if no one finds it beforehand. Laconia is another manufacturer that comes to mind, although I think their dry ice car was Mathieson and was silver with black lettering. Still could be Red Ball -- their catalogs change from time to time. I have a number of different catalogs if their's, I'll check them out. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > Amongst a recent purchase of ancient HO freight car models is a > double-sheath wood 40' reefer D.I.C.X 115 "DRY ICE" REFRIGERATOR > LINE. The body is wood (identical or near identical to Varney in > construction). The sides are printed cardstock with embossed > planking, while the ends are printed photo-rotogravure very much like > the very earliest Varneys- i.e. as in the late thirties. The > lettering is black on white sides. There are no ladders or grabs on > the sides, although there are neatly applied wire grabs serving as > ladders on the ends. A vertical brake staff and platform are missing, > as is the running board. The roof ribs are very fine square wood > stock. > > The trucks are of a type I have never seen before: three cast metal > pieces with the bolsters keyed to the side frames with flexible > pieces of shaped rubber moldings- pretty sophisticated and not bad > looking for the period. The wheels look like Varney (brass). I have a > feeling that these trucks are probably from a different supplier. > > There is no record that Varney had car sides of this type (its R- 19 > Dry Ice car was of steel construction). Red Ball is always a suspect > with printed sides : these sides are not in the 1941 catalogue, and > many of M.D. Newton's designs later were destroyed in Red Ball's > 1943 fire. > > Does this description ring any bells. Megow? Lehigh? > > Denny > > > -- > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4102	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: New motive power

Attachments : A couple months ago there was some discussion here about the Mantua "General" based on an eBay auction where the seller had some perhaps "unrealistic" expectations. One of the list members here was so kind as to actually donate a General to the cause, here she is on a trial run on the lakeshore line after refurbishing. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4103	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] New motive power

Don, It does look nice, hope it runs as well. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 5:05 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] New motive power   A couple months ago there was some discussion here about the Mantua "General" based on an eBay auction where the seller had some perhaps "unrealistic" expectations. One of the list members here was so kind as to actually donate a General to the cause, here she is on a trial run on the lakeshore line after refurbishing. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4104	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Micro Motive

I have spent the afternoon digging thru boxes of old HO--found several pair of MicroMotive trucks--passenger and freight, still in their boxes.  Definitely postwar production.  gj   At this time, I have four office-paper boxes full of Ancient HO stuff--mainly Mantua, Model Die Casting, and Varney, but lots of other things--at the present time I am trying to categorize the boxes--itemization will have to come later, unless I dig into them in response to a particular question. There are also st least three boxes of OO as well-- gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4105	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...

Roundhouse die cast are a specialty of mine.  As far as I know, MDC/Roundhouse never made any die cast passenger cars.  One of two possibilities:   1.  These could be the John English cars others have mentioned. There was a coach and combine, both 60-foot steel-type cars.  The bodies were one piece with a separate floor. I don't recall them having trucks--many kits of the era were sold "Less T&C".  The bodies later showed up in plastic as an MU set by Pittman called the "Bride and Groom".   2. If these are combine and coach looking like the later MDC plastic "Overton" cars, they are Laconia models of the Sierra Railway #5 and 6, built for the Angels Camp Branch, and now in the collection of the California State RR Museum.    Whichever, I would inspect them closely for "Zamak Rot".   I have the English combine and two coaches, along with their NYC Pacific.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: a69mustang4me To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 8:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one... Hello Everyone, Later today, after 4, a woman is supposed to call me. Her Dad had a bunch of Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars. What is the going rate for those?? Right now, I was thinking $18 - $20, but I have no idea. Completed searches revealed nothing (in eBay roundhouse section only). I want to make her a fair offer. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4106	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker

Thanks for all the replies- I am enjoying the comments on this subject. The D.C.I.X. car body is definitely not Varney, nor Varney Mainline (war time production) for a number of reasons, although some Varney parts cannot be completely excluded. To my knowledge Micro-Motive trucks were not produced until after the war c. 1948 or so. I have skimmed through my MRs 1940-46, and although not a definitive search, I found nothing yet to indicate otherwise. I will be looking further. We should not confuse the trucks I describe (rubber moldings actually serving as a flexible hinge between bolster and side frames) with the Athearn sprung trucks of the later '50s that had rubber "springs". For a period of time at the very end of the Athearn's production of metal sprung trucks, they substituted small stiff, hard rubber moldings for the previous small springs- truly unsatisfactory; and as been already reported, most of us tossed the rubber and inserted the springs that the trucks were originally designed to hold . To my knowledge, Varney never included anybody else's trucks in their kits prior to 1950 but their own. According to J. P. Barger, Varney used a number of different job shops to make his castings during those years, a major reason why the cast metal Varney trucks seem to have so many different variations. If these trucks turn out to indeed actually be Varney (doubtful, although apparently having typical Varney brass wheel sets), I guess I will just have to add another variation to the pile. I will submit this general inquiry also to the Steam Era Freight Car List and see what responses occur. I will report further. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4107	From: curmudgeon	Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Micro Motive

Glenn- The reason I posted that is a discussion with Jim Hediger resulted in their checking the Kalmbach files which he says indicates no ads for new stock after the war. Maybe RMC or others, but not at Kalmbach. > > I have spent the afternoon digging thru boxes of old HO--found several pair of MicroMotive trucks--passenger and freight, still in their boxes. Definitely postwar production. gj > > At this time, I have four office-paper boxes full of Ancient HO stuff--mainly Mantua, Model Die Casting, and Varney, but lots of other things--at the present time I am trying to categorize the boxes-- itemization will have to come later, unless I dig into them in response to a particular question. There are also st least three boxes of OO as well-- gj >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4108	From: erieberk	Date: 7/10/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker

Denny, I checked all my Red Ball catalogs for this car and have not seen it listed in any of them, so I think we can rule that out. Its not Laconia (their's is Mathieson Dry Ice -- with those odd tapered sides), nor is it Varney as you said. I've checked out Varney's Main Line (economy) kits and its not one of those either. Ditto on Megow, Comet, H.Owen and Ideal also. There were a number of companies that just produced sides; could be your sides are from one of these. Well, at least we're getting to know what it isn't. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > Thanks for all the replies- I am enjoying the comments on this subject. > > The D.C.I.X. car body is definitely not Varney, nor Varney Mainline > (war time production) for a number of reasons, although some Varney > parts cannot be completely excluded. > > To my knowledge Micro-Motive trucks were not produced until after the > war c. 1948 or so. I have skimmed through my MRs 1940-46, and > although not a definitive search, I found nothing yet to indicate > otherwise. I will be looking further. > > We should not confuse the trucks I describe (rubber moldings actually > serving as a flexible hinge between bolster and side frames) with the > Athearn sprung trucks of the later '50s that had rubber "springs". > > For a period of time at the very end of the Athearn's production of > metal sprung trucks, they substituted small stiff, hard rubber > moldings for the previous small springs- truly unsatisfactory; and as > been already reported, most of us tossed the rubber and inserted the > springs that the trucks were originally designed to hold . > > To my knowledge, Varney never included anybody else's trucks in their > kits prior to 1950 but their own. According to J. P. Barger, Varney > used a number of different job shops to make his castings during > those years, a major reason why the cast metal Varney trucks seem to > have so many different variations. If these trucks turn out to indeed > actually be Varney (doubtful, although apparently having typical > Varney brass wheel sets), I guess I will just have to add another > variation to the pile. > > I will submit this general inquiry also to the Steam Era Freight Car > List and see what responses occur. I will report further. > > Denny > > -- > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4109	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker

Ray, erieberk@... writes- I've checked out Varney's Main Line (economy) kits and its not one of those either. Ditto on Megow, Comet, H.Owen and Ideal also. There were a number of companies that just produced sides; could be your sides are from one of these. Well, at least we're getting to know what it isn't. I agree with all Ray's conclusions, including that the sides probably of from one of the many companies that simply printed up sides alone. One of the most respected responders on the Steam Era Freight Car list recalled a set of similar or identical sides prossibly provided to MR subscribers in the '40s or '50s (I have reasonably complete MR sets, and I have not found them- although they could well have disappeared years ago, or were in news stand copies). I have found that several things are now definite about this car:  a) the body IS Varney, even though the roof rib detail is not, and most interesting-  b) The brown photographic (flat, not embossed) rotogravure paper "dreadnaught" ends (replete with shadowing) are also Varney, the very same ends provided by Varney for at least one of his very earliest reefer kits R-3- FGE  31938. As has already been correctly guessed by others on this list, the trucks are indeed apparently Micro-Motive, which would date them to about 1948-50, or so. Of interest is what appears to be Varney brass wheel sets, however.  I have learned that Micro-Motive was formed by a split between the original founders of Central Valley c.1948  (Micro Motive's first ads showed a drawing of their first truck -lightweight passenger- that was identical to Central Valley's, totally unlike the product they eventually brought to market). It seems reasonable that in the close fraternity of model railroad manufacturers in S. California at that time, MicroMotive may well have purchased wheel sets from Varney, pending production of its own (which were pretty bad, as I recall!). Does anyone know just how long Varney continued to use his distinctive photographic ends on his steel-ended car kits?  I have a completed B-1 boxcar, and a completed R-3 reefer from 1936-37 (documented and confirmed dates) each with different  versions of these photographic ends. The B-1 ceased production about 1940, I believe. However, R-3 continued after the  war (and through the war as MR-3), and I have never seen one of these later kits to determine whether or not they continued these same ends, and if so, for how long. Incidentally, in the same grab bag of derelict cars from which I rescued this D. I. C. X. car, I have also rescued a neatly-built, square,  soiled, but otherwise very much intact Comet MDT reefer- also with MicroMotive trucks.  Does anyone have a list of kit numbers produced by Comet, and the years?  A Comet ad in MR c. 1948 (for glue) only mentions their forthcoming kits  (a date just on the edge of the mass change to metal kits everywhere else). Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4110	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker

Doc Denny: A pre WW 2 AF NYC 4-6-4 was my first HO locomotive. My interest in VARNEY quickly followed. I have a large collection of VARNEY locomotives, freight and passenger cars. Reefers R-1, 2, 3 and 4 (pre war) were upgraded and repeated after the War. R-5 (MILW Steel URTX) I found in a fire sale at Purdy's Hobby Shop on N. 2nd Street in, Milwaukee. That kit, and R-6. 7, 8, 9, and 10, were discontinued and not brought forward after WW 2. The reprinted car sides to which you refer, came from an MR of October 1936. This page was printed in color on enamel stock to 3.5 mm scale. The vertical wooden side material of the prototype cars were replicated in print and not scored as found in post WW 2 kits. From the top; is/was R-8 Schlitz (The Beer That Made Milwaukee Famous) includes Schlitz Globe URTX 3765.... R-9 Berkshire Ham and Bacon (Miller & Hart) MAHX 2017.... R-7 Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer (Pabst-ett malt syrup beverages) includes Pabst B Milwaukee round logo URTX 91467 .... R-10 Carnation Milk (From Contented Cows) URTX 23214 .... R-6 Old Dutch Cleanser (Chases Dirt) Cudahy Refrigerator Line 8945; opposite side depicts Cudahy's Sunlight (Butter - Eggs - Poultry - Cheese) Cudahy Refrigerator Line 8945. I made a pencil note of 240-2240. Don't remember what that references. Could be a decal set ???? The VARNEY Catalog of 1941, carried the full line including the above kits. In addition, I have photostated many of their trade magazine advertisements and they fill a 1 and 1/2 inch three ring binder. WHOA.... Hold the Phone.... I just found another page of Refrigerator Car Sides. This one a supplement to MR of January 1949, opposite to page 50. From the top; Unknown Heritage, M K Goetz Brewing Company (Goetz Country Club Special - Nothing Better Brewed), URTX 14313 .... Unknown Heritage, Fairmont Creamery Co. (Butter - Eggs - Cheese - Poultry) Fairmont's Dairy Line 30041. Four additional car sides are shown, all four are repeats from the page previously described, above. I have no record that the two above unknowns, were ever produced by VARNEY. I think, not. Unfortunately, the above information is gleaned from B&W photostats. However, I should have the color pages in the original magazines. I hope that this information, helps. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4111	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Thomas the Tank Car

Well--who got the Thomas Roma Wine tank car that just closed on eBay--Lee Temple was seller--   just wondering---gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4112	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Ancient Varney Cars. Was: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker

Don Leistikow writes- I have a large collection of VARNEY locomotives, freight and passenger cars. Reefers R-1, 2, 3 and 4 (pre war) were upgraded and repeated after the War. R-5 (MILW Steel URTX) I found in a fire sale at Purdy's Hobby Shop on N. 2nd Street in, Milwaukee. That kit, and R-6. 7, 8, 9, and 10, were discontinued and not brought forward after WW 2. I have always posited that the discontinuance of the colorful "MODEL RAILROADER" Varney R6-10 reefer kits after 1940  had something to do with the fact that Varney  only produced these sides by some sort of agreement with MR, an agreement which for some reason was not  to be  continued  (my copy of the 1941 catalogue lists these sides as still being current, but there is also a penciled annotation that they are "discontinued"). The R5 steel sided URTX Milwaukee reefer apparently discontinued at the same time has to be  another story, however. This car was one of Varney's very earliest reefer kits c. 1937, the sides of which were already in production well before the MR/Varney deal. It was also a very peculiar choice (which may well have lead to its early retirement). The prototype car was one of an unusual series of  steel reefers produced in 1935 by General American Car Company. The riveted sides were characterized by unusual doors with only two large hinges, and each door had its own vertical latch bar. The ends were made up of overlapping riveted wide flat steel plates, as also was the roof (i.e. no corrigated ends, and no roof ribs). The hatches were Equipco with rounded corners .  Not your usual common reefer; and coincidentally the Varney model- kit or completed- is also quite rare (I know of two, and Don's is  one of them!).  The car is quite unlike any other Varney paper reefer, either then, or up to end of production. Ted Cullotta of Speedwitch Models (and Essential Freight Car series) is very interested in producing a resin kit of this prototype. Don, is your R-5 model still a kit, or is it completed?  What box is it in, the early flat box, or the larger familiar yellow/blue one?  Do you have the directions, and are the kit-ends printed or photographed? Are there roof ribs? In a very recent RMC Keith Wills had an article on the Varney paper-sides cars, and he incorrectly identifies as R-5 a photograph of the the much more common  R-15 Varney wood -sided  URTX reefer (also Milwaukee). This unnecessary error was only one of a number of other errors in the article. Denny     -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4113	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /AA/Englishcoach-combine-0707-c.jpg Uploaded by : sottguy <aiberg@...> Description : John A. English coach and combine ca 1950. These cars are 60' but appear somewhat exaggerated in length because of the nearness of the camera to the subject and short focal length. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/AA/Englishcoach-combine-0707-c.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, sottguy <aiberg@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4114	From: Askerberg	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: English coach and combine

I have posted a photo of my recently acquired John A. English coach and combine. There is also a photo of the combine unbuilt as I purchased it and a phaoto of the coach before I refinished it. The photos are in the files under AA. I had one of these coaches on my first HO layout back in the early 50's. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4115	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine

Nice job on the cars, the scene is well set up also.   Roger Aultman       ----- Original Message ----- From: Askerberg To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] English coach and combine I have posted a photo of my recently acquired John A. English coach and combine. There is also a photo of the combine unbuilt as I purchased it and a phaoto of the coach before I refinished it. The photos are in the files under AA. I had one of these coaches on my first HO layout back in the early 50's. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4116	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: Ancient Varney Cars

Denny and list: My VARNEY R-5 URTX/MILW HO Refrigerator Car is built up. I bought it as a kit. It is in good condition and stored in its box, one of the later Yellow and Blue standard kit boxes. As my VARNEY collection is now packed away, I shall have to get it out, to answer your additional questions. As to kit plans, I have many and have photostated some of them, which are in my 1 and 1/2" three ring binder. Breaking out my VARNEY collection will give me a chance to add kit plans into my binder, for ready reference. I also have a copy of an article that appeard in MR for July 1946 entitled; Meet Gordon Varney. This is a general history of his relationship with Model Railroading, to that date. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4117	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/12/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine

I love the photos as well! Great Job!   Sean Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: Nice job on the cars, the scene is well set up also.   Roger Aultman       ----- Original Message ----- From: Askerberg To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] English coach and combine I have posted a photo of my recently acquired John A. English coach and combine. There is also a photo of the combine unbuilt as I purchased it and a phaoto of the coach before I refinished it. The photos are in the files under AA. I had one of these coaches on my first HO layout back in the early 50's. Al Askerberg Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4118	From: robwiggins2004	Date: 7/12/2007
Subject: for sale or trade list one of 5

I have an lot of trains two find an new home.Reply off sight to robwiggins2004@... is each and plus postage.List one of 5 ATHEARN all new blue box's PA1 TO MANY TO LIST POWER 39.00 DUMMY 19.95 PBI TO MANY TO LIST POWER 39.00 DUMMY 19.95 RDC 1& 3 TO MANY ROADS TO LIST POWER 25.00 DUMMY 15.00 S-12 TO MANY ROADS TO LIST POWER 28.00 DUMMY 17.50 SD9 TO MANY TO LIST POWER 35.00 DUMMY 24.00 TRAIN MASTERS LIST LONG POWER 38.00 DUMMY 27.00 F7 A LONG LIST POWER 38.00 DUMMY 19.00 F7 B LONG LIST POWER 38.00 DUMMY 19.00 GP38-2 LONG LIST POWER 42.00 DD40 UP POWER TWO MOTERS 65.00 DD40 CB&Q DUMMY 29.00 DD40 DEMO SHELLS 10.00 EACH DD40 SP shells 10.00EACH DD40 UNDEC DUMMY 29.00 ALSO I HAVE AN LOT OF ATHEARN PARTS SEND AN EMAIL WHITH WHAT YOU NEED. BACHMAN DD40 SPECTRUMS POWER 60.00 EACH ALL UP DIFFRENT #'S

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4119	From: Askerberg	Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine

Thanks for the kind words, gents.  I must confess the scenery is on my On30 layout, but the gauge is right!  : - )  Making realistic photos of model scenes is another aspect of the hobby I enjoy. I am also especially fond of mixed trains and other short consists.  In the files under AA is another shot I posted earlier of my Mantua Mogul pulling a vintage wooden box car and an MEW (Highball) cast metal combine.  It was also photographed on my On30 layout. Al Askerberg --------------- Posted by: "sean naylor" a69mustang4me@...   a69mustang4me Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:59 am (PST) I love the photos as well! Great Job! Sean Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: Nice job on the cars, the scene is well set up also. Roger Aultman ----- Original Message ----- From: Askerberg To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] English coach and combine I have posted a photo of my recently acquired John A. English coach and combine. There is also a photo of the combine unbuilt as I purchased it and a phaoto of the coach before I refinished it. The photos are in the files under AA. I had one of these coaches on my first HO layout back in the early 50's. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4120	From: Askerberg	Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine

I have posted and end view of the English coach showing the Walthers diaphragm, gate, and Kaydee #58 scale coupler with trip pin removed. The photo is located in the Files under AA. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4121	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /AA/Englishcoachend-ca2036.jpg Uploaded by : sottguy <aiberg@...> Description : View of English coach end showing Walthers diaphragm, gate, and Kaydee #58 scale coupler You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/AA/Englishcoachend-ca2036.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, sottguy <aiberg@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4122	From: robwiggins2004	Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: FOR SALE OR TRADE 2 OF 5

PART 2 OF 5 PLEASE SEND MY AN E-MAIL TO ROBWIGGINS2004@... WITH YOUR WANTS I BOUGHT OUT AN DEALER AND HAVE AN LOT OF TRAINS THE LIST IS WHAT I HAVE FOR ROADS NAMES E-MAIL ME I WILL SAY YES OR NO, THANKS ROB ATHEARN SW7 COW OR CALF POWER 39.00 DUMMY 19.00 SDP40 LIST SHORT POWER 46.00 DUMMY 27.00 SD45 UP,SP MOSTLY POWER49.OO DUMMY 28.00 GP50 LIST SHORT POWER 41.00 SD40-2 OLD DRIVE POWER 40.00 NEW HEX DRIVE 50.00 HUSTLERS POWER 28.00 U30C AND U33C POWER 40.00 GP35 OLD DRIVES POWER 35.00 GP40-2 POWER 47.00 SOME DUMMYS 29.00 U30B POWER 39.00 SW1500 POWER 44.00 SOME DUMMYS 28.00 FEW NASA'S F45 FEW POWER 45.00 NEXT LIST IS GENESIS AND ATHEARN SE SETS. ALSO HAVE ATHEARN PARTS ALL KINDS SOME NOT MADE IN YEARS PLEASE SEND AN LIST WITH WHAT YOU NEED I WILL SEE IF I HAVE IT AND CANNON AND DETAIL WEST PARTS. ALL PLUS POSTAGE THANKS ROB

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4123	From: robwiggins2004	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: FOR SALE LIST 3 OF 5

THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND HERE IS THE LIST FOR ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4124	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?

I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make  buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it?     again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me..   Sean robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@...> wrote: THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND HERE IS THE LIST FOR ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ YAHOO.COM Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4125	From: rob wiggins	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?

SEAN YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS ROB sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make  buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it?     again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me..   Sean robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@ yahoo.com> wrote: THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND HERE IS THE LIST FOR ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ YAHOO.COM Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4126	From: Robert K Nielsen	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?

Attachments : SEAN YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS ROB sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make  buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it?     again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me..   Sean robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@ yahoo.com> wrote: THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND HERE IS THE LIST FOR ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ YAHOO.COM Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4127	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?

Hello Rob, and group. As I said, I was not trying to be a jerk, however selling items here on a mass scale is definately not appropriate and could be classified as spam.   As for a topic of prior discussion, I was not the only one who was in the discussion, besides, it was just that,  a discussion.      Not a one sided advertisement. Either way, It was declared off topic and as for me, was never brought up again.   Hurt? by a topic.. ?? Man, that is taking things way to personal...   Thanks, Sean rob wiggins <robwiggins2004@...> wrote: SEAN YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS ROB sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make  buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it?     again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me..   Sean robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@ yahoo.com> wrote: THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND HERE IS THE LIST FOR ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ YAHOO.COM Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4128	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?

(Moderator hat on)   As far as the posting of for sale lists, it's always been my feeling that if a person has a few items for sale or trade that ARE Vintage, I have no problem with the message.  I've done it myself, and as a result bought a pair of trucks for my GP-30 from Rob.  (I've bought from Sean on eBay too).   I do agree, the last couple listings HAVE been a little excessive, and yes, the non vintage stuff was innapropriate.  Consider yourself chastized <G>.   What I DON'T want to see, and what I WON'T allow, is the poster who is doing it as a business, and posts lists every week, or even links every week.   (Moderator hat off)   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY     ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place? Hello Rob, and group. As I said, I was not trying to be a jerk, however selling items here on a mass scale is definately not appropriate and could be classified as spam.   As for a topic of prior discussion, I was not the only one who was in the discussion, besides, it was just that,  a discussion.      Not a one sided advertisement. Either way, It was declared off topic and as for me, was never brought up again.   Hurt? by a topic.. ?? Man, that is taking things way to personal...   Thanks, Sean rob wiggins <robwiggins2004@...> wrote: SEAN YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS ROB sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make  buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it?     again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me..   Sean robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@ yahoo.com> wrote: THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND HERE IS THE LIST FOR ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ YAHOO.COM Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4129	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?

I think it would be more appropriate to just say," I have a (bunch of stuff)--contact me off-list for the list of what I have to sell"--  and please quit shouting.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place? Hello Rob, and group. As I said, I was not trying to be a jerk, however selling items here on a mass scale is definately not appropriate and could be classified as spam.   As for a topic of prior discussion, I was not the only one who was in the discussion, besides, it was just that,  a discussion.      Not a one sided advertisement. Either way, It was declared off topic and as for me, was never brought up again.   Hurt? by a topic.. ?? Man, that is taking things way to personal...   Thanks, Sean rob wiggins <robwiggins2004@ yahoo.com> wrote: SEAN YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS ROB sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make  buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it?     again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me..   Sean robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@ yahoo.com> wrote: THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND HERE IS THE LIST FOR ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ YAHOO.COM Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4130	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?

I agree   Sean Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: I think it would be more appropriate to just say," I have a (bunch of stuff)--contact me off-list for the list of what I have to sell"--  and please quit shouting.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place? Hello Rob, and group. As I said, I was not trying to be a jerk, however selling items here on a mass scale is definately not appropriate and could be classified as spam.   As for a topic of prior discussion, I was not the only one who was in the discussion, besides, it was just that,  a discussion.      Not a one sided advertisement. Either way, It was declared off topic and as for me, was never brought up again.   Hurt? by a topic.. ?? Man, that is taking things way to personal...   Thanks, Sean rob wiggins <robwiggins2004@ yahoo.com> wrote: SEAN YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS ROB sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make  buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it?     again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me..   Sean robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@ yahoo.com> wrote: THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND HERE IS THE LIST FOR ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ YAHOO.COM Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4131	From: robwiggins2004	Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic

OK guys i under stand list 4 and 5 are gone to the bay and sorry i talk so loud hope this is better.Any way dont let your 7 year old play with your pc all my groups got deleted have two start all over. Need some info i got an spin-cast and mill out of it and was wondering if any body has the 1953- 1963 yellow box athearn pass dome the car with 4 sides and an floor in an kit form i want to try some thing. And when we talk about zamac with the mill I'm milling an frame for my dd40 does 4140 chrome good for electric transferring power, and part two what about powder coating enstead of painting? Let me know Rob --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I agree > > Sean > > Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: > I think it would be more appropriate to just say," I have a (bunch of stuff)--contact me off-list for the list of what I have to sell"-- and please quit shouting. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 1:57 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place? > > > Hello Rob, and group. > As I said, I was not trying to be a jerk, however selling items here on a mass scale is definately not appropriate and could be classified as spam. > > As for a topic of prior discussion, I was not the only one who was in the discussion, besides, it was just that, a discussion. Not a one sided advertisement. Either way, It was declared off topic and as for me, was never brought up again. > > Hurt? by a topic.. ?? Man, that is taking things way to personal... > > Thanks, > Sean > > rob wiggins <robwiggins2004@...> wrote: > SEAN > YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS > ROB > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. > Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it? > > again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me.. > > Sean > > robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@...> wrote: > THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS > FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND > HERE IS THE LIST FOR > ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE > AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH > CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH > SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH > BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH > SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH > GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 > UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 > FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 > NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 > ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH > ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE > GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH > CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH > NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. > ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT > TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. > OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@... > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4132	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic

I think that powder coating might be a bit heavy ----- Original Message ----- From: robwiggins2004 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic OK guys i under stand list 4 and 5 are gone to the bay and sorry i talk so loud hope this is better.Any way dont let your 7 year old play with your pc all my groups got deleted have two start all over. Need some info i got an spin-cast and mill out of it and was wondering if any body has the 1953- 1963 yellow box athearn pass dome the car with 4 sides and an floor in an kit form i want to try some thing. And when we talk about zamac with the mill I'm milling an frame for my dd40 does 4140 chrome good for electric transferring power, and part two what about powder coating enstead of painting? Let me know Rob --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > I agree > > Sean > > Glenn476 <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > I think it would be more appropriate to just say," I have a (bunch of stuff)--contact me off-list for the list of what I have to sell"-- and please quit shouting. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 1:57 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place? > > > Hello Rob, and group. > As I said, I was not trying to be a jerk, however selling items here on a mass scale is definately not appropriate and could be classified as spam. > > As for a topic of prior discussion, I was not the only one who was in the discussion, besides, it was just that, a discussion. Not a one sided advertisement. Either way, It was declared off topic and as for me, was never brought up again. > > Hurt? by a topic.. ?? Man, that is taking things way to personal... > > Thanks, > Sean > > rob wiggins <robwiggins2004@ ...> wrote: > SEAN > YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS > ROB > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. > Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it? > > again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me.. > > Sean > > robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@ ...> wrote: > THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS > FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND > HERE IS THE LIST FOR > ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE > AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH > CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH > SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH > BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH > SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH > GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 > UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 > FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 > NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 > ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH > ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE > GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH > CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH > NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. > ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT > TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. > OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ ... > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4133	From: sean naylor	Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic

By heavy, I think you mean thick? However if most of the details are carefully added afterwards, it may be very nice. A good automotive paint works well also. I have been using an airbrushed acrylic based laquer and it has a very nice looking and very durable finish. Sean Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: I think that powder coating might be a bit heavy ----- Original Message ----- From: robwiggins2004 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic OK guys i under stand list 4 and 5 are gone to the bay and sorry i talk so loud hope this is better.Any way dont let your 7 year old play with your pc all my groups got deleted have two start all over. Need some info i got an spin-cast and mill out of it and was wondering if any body has the 1953- 1963 yellow box athearn pass dome the car with 4 sides and an floor in an kit form i want to try some thing. And when we talk about zamac with the mill I'm milling an frame for my dd40 does 4140 chrome good for electric transferring power, and part two what about powder coating enstead of painting? Let me know Rob --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > I agree > > Sean > > Glenn476 <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > I think it would be more appropriate to just say," I have a (bunch of stuff)--contact me off-list for the list of what I have to sell"-- and please quit shouting. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 1:57 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place? > > > Hello Rob, and group. > As I said, I was not trying to be a jerk, however selling items here on a mass scale is definately not appropriate and could be classified as spam. > > As for a topic of prior discussion, I was not the only one who was in the discussion, besides, it was just that, a discussion. Not a one sided advertisement. Either way, It was declared off topic and as for me, was never brought up again. > > Hurt? by a topic.. ?? Man, that is taking things way to personal... > > Thanks, > Sean > > rob wiggins <robwiggins2004@ ...> wrote: > SEAN > YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS > ROB > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. > Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it? > > again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me.. > > Sean > > robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@ ...> wrote: > THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS > FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND > HERE IS THE LIST FOR > ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE > AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH > CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH > SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH > BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH > SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH > GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 > UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 > FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 > NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 > ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH > ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE > GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH > CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH > NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. > ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT > TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. > OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ ... > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4134	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic

yes--"heavy" meaning "thick".    A fellow named Don Haynesworth--in the Santa Rosa, CA area, used to do clinics at PCR conventions on painting--he used automotive lacquers--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic By heavy, I think you mean thick? However if most of the details are carefully added afterwards, it may be very nice. A good automotive paint works well also. I have been using an airbrushed acrylic based laquer and it has a very nice looking and very durable finish. Sean Glenn476 <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: I think that powder coating might be a bit heavy ----- Original Message ----- From: robwiggins2004 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic OK guys i under stand list 4 and 5 are gone to the bay and sorry i talk so loud hope this is better.Any way dont let your 7 year old play with your pc all my groups got deleted have two start all over. Need some info i got an spin-cast and mill out of it and was wondering if any body has the 1953- 1963 yellow box athearn pass dome the car with 4 sides and an floor in an kit form i want to try some thing. And when we talk about zamac with the mill I'm milling an frame for my dd40 does 4140 chrome good for electric transferring power, and part two what about powder coating enstead of painting? Let me know Rob --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > I agree > > Sean > > Glenn476 <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > I think it would be more appropriate to just say," I have a (bunch of stuff)--contact me off-list for the list of what I have to sell"-- and please quit shouting. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 1:57 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place? > > > Hello Rob, and group. > As I said, I was not trying to be a jerk, however selling items here on a mass scale is definately not appropriate and could be classified as spam. > > As for a topic of prior discussion, I was not the only one who was in the discussion, besides, it was just that, a discussion. Not a one sided advertisement. Either way, It was declared off topic and as for me, was never brought up again. > > Hurt? by a topic.. ?? Man, that is taking things way to personal... > > Thanks, > Sean > > rob wiggins <robwiggins2004@ ...> wrote: > SEAN > YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS > ROB > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. > Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it? > > again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me.. > > Sean > > robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@ ...> wrote: > THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS > FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND > HERE IS THE LIST FOR > ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE > AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH > CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH > SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH > BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH > SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH > GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 > UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 > FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 > NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 > ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH > ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE > GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH > CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH > NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. > ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT > TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. > OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ ... > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4135	From: rob wiggins	Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic

Auto paint forgot about that. As for the frame its going to be heavy any way 3lbs: i think after i mill it all away.Thanks Sean sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: By heavy, I think you mean thick? However if most of the details are carefully added afterwards, it may be very nice. A good automotive paint works well also. I have been using an airbrushed acrylic based laquer and it has a very nice looking and very durable finish. Sean Glenn476 <glenn476@tco. net> wrote: I think that powder coating might be a bit heavy ----- Original Message ----- From: robwiggins2004 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic OK guys i under stand list 4 and 5 are gone to the bay and sorry i talk so loud hope this is better.Any way dont let your 7 year old play with your pc all my groups got deleted have two start all over. Need some info i got an spin-cast and mill out of it and was wondering if any body has the 1953- 1963 yellow box athearn pass dome the car with 4 sides and an floor in an kit form i want to try some thing. And when we talk about zamac with the mill I'm milling an frame for my dd40 does 4140 chrome good for electric transferring power, and part two what about powder coating enstead of painting? Let me know Rob --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > I agree > > Sean > > Glenn476 <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > I think it would be more appropriate to just say," I have a (bunch of stuff)--contact me off-list for the list of what I have to sell"-- and please quit shouting. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 1:57 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place? > > > Hello Rob, and group. > As I said, I was not trying to be a jerk, however selling items here on a mass scale is definately not appropriate and could be classified as spam. > > As for a topic of prior discussion, I was not the only one who was in the discussion, besides, it was just that, a discussion. Not a one sided advertisement. Either way, It was declared off topic and as for me, was never brought up again. > > Hurt? by a topic.. ?? Man, that is taking things way to personal... > > Thanks, > Sean > > rob wiggins <robwiggins2004@ ...> wrote: > SEAN > YES I KNOW THAT SOME ARE NOT OLD SOME WAS THERE ALL GONE NOW, SO FOR YOU . I WILL NOT POST HERE AGAIN, BUT ONE THING AS FOR MOST I WAS NOT HURT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT E-BAY FOR 3 DAYS THANKS > ROB > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > I am sorry, I do not mean to be a Jerk. > Am I alone here in my thinking that this list and all others like it is really not the forum for such activity. The last thing I want is this to become a trend. I buy and sell all the time and I pay for the right to do so, on the appropriate websites. I in no way ever try to make buck off of anyone here. This forum is tremendous for it's easy access to insight and knowege on many topics of the hobby, but selling off someones store stock bugs me. Maybe if the stuff was 40 - 60 years old, but it is not... It is not even close. So how vintage is it? > > again, I do not mean to offend, but it just bothers me.. > > Sean > > robwiggins2004 <robwiggins2004@ ...> wrote: > THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN BIG THANKS > FIRST ALL SW7 ARE GONE FLYWEELS GONE STEAL HAVE 5K PLUS IN PARTS AND > HERE IS THE LIST FOR > ATHEARN GENESIS PLUS POSTAGE > AT&SF SD75M #235 HAVE 2 125.00 EACH > CSX SD70M#4685 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH > SP/UP REPNT SD70M#3975 HAVE 3 125.00 EACH > BNSF SD75I #2-RED&SIL HAVE 4 125.00 EACH > SUZY Q SD70M ALL 3 NUMBERS HAVE 27 85.00 EACH > GRAND TRUNK USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > MAINE CNTL USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > SEABRD USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 5 > SOUTHRN USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 6 > UNDEC USRA 2-8-2 HAVE 15 > FRIS USRA 2-8-2 4030 HAVE 4 > NYC USRA 2-8-2 5155 HAVE 7 > ALL 2-8-2 ARE 100.00 EACH IF YOU BUY 3 OR MORE 65.00 EACH > ATHEARN SE SETS ALL ATHEARN BLUE > GP38-2 PLUS CABOSE HAVE 15 60.00 EACH > CENTER FLOW HOPPER AND HUSKY HAVE 20 30.00 EACH > NEXT LIST IS MDC SOME LOGGERS NEW IN THE BOX. > ALSO FOUND AN BOX WITH 10 SD45T-2 ALL SP USED IN THE BOX PUT > TOGEATHER AND ALL POWERD I TEST THEM THEY ALL RUN MAKE OFFER. > OFF LIST ROBWIGGINS2004@ ... > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4136	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 7/19/2007
Subject: ? Megow?: G.A.R.X. 48979 MKT wood reefer

The above HO car is amongst a group of misc. HO cars of standard 40' wood body construction and paper sides that I am trying to identify. The sides are flat black on yellow printed card stock without any pretense at scribed or printed planking. The ends are scribed wood. The roof has cardstock ribs, neatly applied, and the hatches and hatch platforms are wood fabrications (the latches are bent-over lills). The vertical brake wheel is a dress snap. The underframe is "fish belly" without any detailing. The trucks are lead or lead alloy with brass wheels (not Varney). What is it? :-) Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4137	From: erieberk	Date: 7/19/2007
Subject: Re: ? Megow?: G.A.R.X. 48979 MKT wood reefer

All's I can add is that Megow did produce an M-K-T Reefer - Kit #Q-7, and while I don't have the reporting marks for this kit, it would seem that it could be a possiblity. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > The above HO car is amongst a group of misc. HO cars of standard 40' > wood body construction and paper sides that I am trying to identify. > The sides are flat black on yellow printed card stock without any > pretense at scribed or printed planking. The ends are scribed wood. > The roof has cardstock ribs, neatly applied, and the hatches and > hatch platforms are wood fabrications (the latches are bent-over > lills). The vertical brake wheel is a dress snap. The underframe is > "fish belly" without any detailing. The trucks are lead or lead alloy > with brass wheels (not Varney). > > What is it? :-) > > Denny > > > -- > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4138	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/21/2007
Subject: Re: ? Megow?: G.A.R.X. 48979 MKT wood reefer

Any chance of some photos? Would help. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:46 PM Subject: [vintageHO] ? Megow?: G.A.R.X. 48979 MKT wood reefer > The above HO car is amongst a group of misc. HO cars of standard 40' > wood body construction and paper sides that I am trying to identify. > The sides are flat black on yellow printed card stock without any > pretense at scribed or printed planking. The ends are scribed wood. > The roof has cardstock ribs, neatly applied, and the hatches and > hatch platforms are wood fabrications (the latches are bent-over > lills). The vertical brake wheel is a dress snap. The underframe is > "fish belly" without any detailing. The trucks are lead or lead alloy > with brass wheels (not Varney). > > What is it? :-) > > Denny > > > -- > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4139	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Conventions and cars

I have been inventorying my convention cars and need the following info:   Where were the PCR conventions in: 1066,  1967,  1969. 1971,  2000, 2001   Does anyone have spare cars from 66-67-68-69-71   Does anyone have spare cars from the NMRA National Conventions 1966-1967-1973 Atlanta-1985 Milwaukee-2000 San Jose?   Thanks--Glenn Joesten

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4140	From: Don Van Der Horn	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Spare convention cars

Glenn - I have 2 sets of the 1980 Headquarters Express set with engines.I also have a full set (6) of 1985 convention passenger cars for which I have not been able to find a pair of PA\PB 1s that match. E-mail me directly at donvdh@... on a clean page if you are interested. My filters block replies from vintageho for some reason so it has to be a clean page. Anyone else interested, they are all for sale. Don Van Der Horn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4141	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Re: Conventions and cars

That was 1966--the convention was at Hastings in 1066! ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: PCR LIST ; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 5:05 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Conventions and cars I have been inventorying my convention cars and need the following info:   Where were the PCR conventions in: 1066,  1967,  1969. 1971,  2000, 2001   Does anyone have spare cars from 66-67-68-69- 71   Does anyone have spare cars from the NMRA National Conventions 1966-1967-1973 Atlanta-1985 Milwaukee-2000 San Jose?   Thanks--Glenn Joesten

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4142	From: Glenn476	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Re: [PCR-nmra] Conventions and cars

that should have been "1966"--the convention was at Hastings in 1066!  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: PCR LIST ; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 5:05 PM Subject: [PCR-nmra] Conventions and cars I have been inventorying my convention cars and need the following info: Where were the PCR conventions in: 1066, 1967, 1969. 1971, 2000, 2001 Does anyone have spare cars from 66-67-68-69- 71 Does anyone have spare cars from the NMRA National Conventions 1966-1967-1973 Atlanta-1985 Milwaukee-2000 San Jose? Thanks--Glenn Joesten [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4143	From: Don Van Der Horn	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: NMRA Commeorative Cars

Glenn - I have 2 sets of 1980 Headquarters Express passenger trains which consist of steam engines, tenders, and 5 passenger cars (all Rivarossi produced equipment). I have a full set of 6 1985 Commemorative 50th Anniversary Convention passenger cars (Rivarossi produced) for which I have been looking unsuccessfully to find the matching PA\PB1 engine set (Athearn produced I have been told). If you, or anyone else is interested in any of them or all of them please e-mail me at donvdh@... directly. Please use a new e-mail page. For some unsolveable reason my providers filters block forwarded vintageho messages. Thanks, Don Van Der Horn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4144	From: Don Van Der Horn	Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: 1066 vs 1966 conventions

I'm told the 1966 convention was noisier than the 1066 at Hastings. Don V

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4145	From: lesbrody923	Date: 8/2/2007
Subject: Thanks sean

Hi Sean: I received the Ayres interiorss. Thanks for not competing against me. I can't find any other's anywhere. I love what you've done to the La belle interiors. The HO19 I just bought directly from them, first time not from ebay, has the floor plan, but the older models don't. Any idea where I can get basic floor plans for the other cars? Your photos have been an inspiration for me> Thanks again. Les Brody

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4146	From: sean naylor	Date: 8/2/2007
Subject: Re: Thanks sean

Hello Les, Although I have done cars in the past, the LaBelle cars you referring to, I purchased on eBay for $10 Buy It Now, with a Mantua Brass caboose. I wish I could take credit for them. However, there are some things about them I would have done differently. I do believe in my collection of modeling information, I did see some floor plans. If you can be patient, i will try to find them.   You are welcome for the lack of my bidding..  I would rather have them put to use then sitting around until I am able to get to them.   Thanks, Sean  lesbrody923 <lesbrody923@...> wrote: Hi Sean: I received the Ayres interiorss. Thanks for not competing against me. I can't find any other's anywhere. I love what you've done to the La belle interiors. The HO19 I just bought directly from them, first time not from ebay, has the floor plan, but the older models don't. Any idea where I can get basic floor plans for the other cars? Your photos have been an inspiration for me> Thanks again. Les Brody Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4147	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/5/2007
Subject: Kemtron to Precision Number Conversion

Several years ago, on another computer, I had saved a conversion list of old Kemtron numbers to their new Precision numbers. Time and failed hard drives have a way of removing ones memory and now I am looking again for that list. Does anyone have any idea where I could find that list again? Or was it just a one-off list that someone created on their own? I am trying to find the new number for the old Kemtron 7469 four-wheel lead truck. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4148	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/10/2007
Subject: A couple adds

Attachments : eBay was good to me this week. I bid on a "lot of Athearn tower drive parts". The picture showed three early gear drives, three F-7 shells, and a spare pair of trucks. I thought "what the heck, I can probably salvage a couple good drives out of it and get some of my dummy B units powered". I bid twenty bucks and change ($25 delivered), and was outbid at the last few seconds. Oh well, that happens. The next morning I got a "second chance" offer from the seller, apparantly the high bidder reneged. So I said to myself "Self" says I, "Why not?". They arrived last week. Three COMPLETE drives, two of what Stephen Lengel calls in his album on the group home page "typical later tower drive" (picture below) and one late 60's-early 70's "standard" gear drive ("jet" sytle motor, metal sideframes, no flywheels), and the spare pair of trucks (which are the same as on the two oldest drives). All three ran well right out of the box, only needed wheel cleaning. The shells were, a standard Athearn F-7A, and a (drum roll) GLOBE F-7 A&B. Needless to say, my B's are still dummys (one drive swapped out the frame of the one non-powered F-7A I still had) and the roster has grown by two more A's and a B. (Got an Alco FA/FB set last week too, but they're not vintage yet, the infamous Model Power/Roco "cross between an FA-1 & an FA2") (If anybody cares, you can see my entire collection, vintage AND non-vintage at http://new.photos.yahoo.com/don_dellmann ) Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4149	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/12/2007
Subject: Thanks to the Group -- International Models 0-6-0

I have updated the photos in my folder on the International 0-6-0. I have posted the "original" photos of the loco as it arrived after purchase on eBay and the photos of it in running condition, semi- restored (bell cord, front numberplate, and brakeshoes still missing.) Thanks to the help from a lot of people on this group I was able to learn the history of this loco and start restoring it to its original condition. I appreciate the information from every person who helped. The loco, even with that odd tender, is original. International offered the option of buying the loco and tender separately and the tender is one of the offerings. Oddly enough, International Models did this due to an article in a 1950 Model Railroader magazine that had plans for the USRA 0-6-0 and then on a second page there were additional tender drawings for other tenders used behind 0-6-0s (but not necessarily behind a USRA 0-6-0.) It appears (and this is only a guess) that International Models commissioned extra tenders to be built for the market. Also of note, this loco in updated and improved form reappears with more accurate detailing as the Akane USRA 0-6-0 about 7 or 8 years after International offered it. And after some major restoration the loco runs (albeit with a slight gait) and all the valve gear works beauifully. These older (1950s) locos were better than many of us realize in terms of detailing and running ability. The limitation was mostly the motors of the times -- high-current draw, high starting voltage isn't exactly a prescription for a smooth, slow-running locomotive. Again, my thanks to the group for the help and the inspriation that saved this old loco from the parts bin. Matt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4150	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/14/2007
Subject: Question about Dyna-Models

After Dyna-Models went out of business, were any of their kits released under any other name? Matt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4151	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/14/2007
Subject: tubamarx, please contact me off line

tubamarx, please contact me off line if you get this message. Two of my photos ended up in your Picard Novelty Co. Folder and I have no clue how or why. I want to remove them so as to not clutter up your folder. Matt Coleman (mmattjcoleman on yahoo groups)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4152	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/14/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models

----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Question about Dyna-Models > After Dyna-Models went out of business, were any of their kits released > under any other name? > > Matt Not that I'm aware of, but if they were I'd like to know, I'd still like to get my hands on the barber shop and poolroom kit, as well as the grist mill & feed store. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4153	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models

Don, Thanks! I too am looking for one of their kits that I have long (46 years) coveted. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:26 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question about Dyna-Models > > > > After Dyna-Models went out of business, were any of their kits released > > under any other name? > > > > Matt > > Not that I'm aware of, but if they were I'd like to know, I'd still like to > get my hands on the barber shop and poolroom kit, as well as the grist mill > & feed store. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4154	From: Wobbly913	Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models

For whatever it is worth there is a Dyna models freight station #100 on ebay now. 190140333045 mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: Don, Thanks! I too am looking for one of their kits that I have long (46 years) coveted. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mmattjcoleman" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:26 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question about Dyna-Models > > > > After Dyna-Models went out of business, were any of their kits released > > under any other name? > > > > Matt > > Not that I'm aware of, but if they were I'd like to know, I'd still like to > get my hands on the barber shop and poolroom kit, as well as the grist mill > & feed store. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4155	From: James Sabo	Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models

HI DON, I HAVE PICKED SOME OF THE KITS ON E-BAY Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@ netscape. net> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Question about Dyna-Models > After Dyna-Models went out of business, were any of their kits released > under any other name? > > Matt Not that I'm aware of, but if they were I'd like to know, I'd still like to get my hands on the barber shop and poolroom kit, as well as the grist mill & feed store. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4156	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models

That happens to be the ONE Dyna Models kit I've actually built :-)   For nostalgia though, at this very moment there's a Suydam power substation sitting on my bench right now waiting for some glue to dry before I go back downstairs and work on it some more.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Question about Dyna-Models For whatever it is worth there is a Dyna models freight station #100 on ebay now. 190140333045 mmattjcoleman <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: Don, Thanks! I too am looking for one of their kits that I have long (46 years) coveted. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mmattjcoleman" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:26 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Question about Dyna-Models > > > > After Dyna-Models went out of business, were any of their kits released > > under any other name? > > > > Matt > > Not that I'm aware of, but if they were I'd like to know, I'd still like to > get my hands on the barber shop and poolroom kit, as well as the grist mill > & feed store. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4157	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Walthers "BJ" Reefer kit.

I have a Walthers "BEE JAY" reefer craft kit (HO) #8801E complete, but with no instructions. Does anyone have an instruction sheet that they would be willing to either scan or FAX? If so, thank you in advance, and please contact me off line. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4158	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel

Hi, all, I won a set of Strombecker cars on eBay not long ago. They arrived today, and I am refitting them for HO scale operation. One of the items in the 11 was a diesel that appears to be an E-8/9 (There's no lithography on it- just a base paint job. Since the lot also came with two City of San Francisco UP coaches, and I have some Walthers metal and wood Milwaukee 'yellowbird' coaches used in UP connecting service, I'd like to power the yellow Strombecker diesel and do the litho myself (Litho will be easy for me to do). The rear truck area is open on the frame, and a long block holds the truck to the roof piece, so I can easily get a rear motor for it. Did these come this way? What kind of motor assembly is recommended? I sense a trip to eBay again here... Whatever it is, it will probably have to have the motor/bearbox all on the truck I think. The front truck is glued to the frame. I think I'll have to have a 3 axle dummy truck that screws like a car truck direct into the frame. Anyone make a good cast metal one? I don't want to use a plastic truck on this. Kinda ruins it, I think. Any suggestions to power this unit?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4159	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel

That's about the way I remember it--most of the locomotive "details" were on the decal sheet. Loco was an E-7.  There was a dummy B unit available.  It did not have the cutout for the power truck. That was from Walthers, as I recall--   which brings up--anyone out there got a spare Strombecker Rock Island Rocket loco, with the printed paper overlays?  or someone interested in the cars to go with it?  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: railwaymodeler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel Hi, all, I won a set of Strombecker cars on eBay not long ago. They arrived today, and I am refitting them for HO scale operation. One of the items in the 11 was a diesel that appears to be an E-8/9 (There's no lithography on it- just a base paint job. Since the lot also came with two City of San Francisco UP coaches, and I have some Walthers metal and wood Milwaukee 'yellowbird' coaches used in UP connecting service, I'd like to power the yellow Strombecker diesel and do the litho myself (Litho will be easy for me to do). The rear truck area is open on the frame, and a long block holds the truck to the roof piece, so I can easily get a rear motor for it. Did these come this way? What kind of motor assembly is recommended? I sense a trip to eBay again here... Whatever it is, it will probably have to have the motor/bearbox all on the truck I think. The front truck is glued to the frame. I think I'll have to have a 3 axle dummy truck that screws like a car truck direct into the frame. Anyone make a good cast metal one? I don't want to use a plastic truck on this. Kinda ruins it, I think. Any suggestions to power this unit?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4160	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel

Follow-up--perhaps the drive from a Rivarossi E-8 would do--it is a single power truck.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel That's about the way I remember it--most of the locomotive "details" were on the decal sheet. Loco was an E-7.  There was a dummy B unit available.  It did not have the cutout for the power truck. That was from Walthers, as I recall--   which brings up--anyone out there got a spare Strombecker Rock Island Rocket loco, with the printed paper overlays?  or someone interested in the cars to go with it?  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: railwaymodeler To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel Hi, all, I won a set of Strombecker cars on eBay not long ago. They arrived today, and I am refitting them for HO scale operation. One of the items in the 11 was a diesel that appears to be an E-8/9 (There's no lithography on it- just a base paint job. Since the lot also came with two City of San Francisco UP coaches, and I have some Walthers metal and wood Milwaukee 'yellowbird' coaches used in UP connecting service, I'd like to power the yellow Strombecker diesel and do the litho myself (Litho will be easy for me to do). The rear truck area is open on the frame, and a long block holds the truck to the roof piece, so I can easily get a rear motor for it. Did these come this way? What kind of motor assembly is recommended? I sense a trip to eBay again here... Whatever it is, it will probably have to have the motor/bearbox all on the truck I think. The front truck is glued to the frame. I think I'll have to have a 3 axle dummy truck that screws like a car truck direct into the frame. Anyone make a good cast metal one? I don't want to use a plastic truck on this. Kinda ruins it, I think. Any suggestions to power this unit?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4161	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel

Hello... if you go to the photos section of the website, there are pictures of a powered StromBecker E Unit that I posted a while back under the title StromBecker. This one is powered with a very vintage Walthers six wheel truck that I'm sure was produced almost exclusively for the StromBecker E unit. The sideframes are Lead, and the power truck actually works quite well. The front truck is simply a dummy with electrical pickup. Lindsay also produced a very early power unit that seems made for this particular application as well... Really nice with Brass sideframes, and all... I recently nabbed one on ebay. The price was quite reasonable. The A Units that I have all have that large cutout, and according to vintage advertisements, At one time they were available with a power unit. I don't have any idea what type, though. I have one B unit, also pictured, I can't recall as to whether or not it has the same cutout. -----Original Message----- From: railwaymodeler <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:41 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel Hi, all, I won a set of Strombecker cars on eBay not long ago. They arrived today, and I am refitting them for HO scale operation. One of the items in the 11 was a diesel that appears to be an E-8/9 (There's no lithography on it- just a base paint job. Since the lot also came with two City of San Francisco UP coaches, and I have some Walthers metal and wood Milwaukee 'yellowbird' coaches used in UP connecting service, I'd like to power the yellow Strombecker diesel and do the litho myself (Litho will be easy for me to do). The rear truck area is open on the frame, and a long block holds the truck to the roof piece, so I can easily get a rear motor for it. Did these come this way? What kind of motor assembly is recommended? I sense a trip to eBay again here... Whatever it is, it will probably have to have the motor/bearbox all on the truck I think. The front truck is glued to the frame. I think I'll have to have a 3 axle dummy truck that screws like a car truck direct into the frame. Anyone make a good cast metal one? I don't want to use a plastic truck on this. Kinda ruins it, I think. Any suggestions to power this unit? AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4162	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/17/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel

As I recall the B units did not have the hollow for the power truck--I got several of them back in high school (close to 50 years ago) and used them as a basis for some of the SP's "economy" postal storage cars.gj ----- Original Message ----- From: MRLENGAL2U@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel Hello... if you go to the photos section of the website, there are pictures of a powered StromBecker E Unit that I posted a while back under the title StromBecker. This one is powered with a very vintage Walthers six wheel truck that I'm sure was produced almost exclusively for the StromBecker E unit. The sideframes are Lead, and the power truck actually works quite well. The front truck is simply a dummy with electrical pickup. Lindsay also produced a very early power unit that seems made for this particular application as well... Really nice with Brass sideframes, and all... I recently nabbed one on ebay. The price was quite reasonable. The A Units that I have all have that large cutout, and according to vintage advertisements, At one time they were available with a power unit. I don't have any idea what type, though. I have one B unit, also pictured, I can't recall as to whether or not it has the same cutout. -----Original Message----- From: railwaymodeler <computersystemrebui ld@yahoo. com> To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:41 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel Hi, all, I won a set of Strombecker cars on eBay not long ago. They arrived today, and I am refitting them for HO scale operation. One of the items in the 11 was a diesel that appears to be an E-8/9 (There's no lithography on it- just a base paint job. Since the lot also came with two City of San Francisco UP coaches, and I have some Walthers metal and wood Milwaukee 'yellowbird' coaches used in UP connecting service, I'd like to power the yellow Strombecker diesel and do the litho myself (Litho will be easy for me to do). The rear truck area is open on the frame, and a long block holds the truck to the roof piece, so I can easily get a rear motor for it. Did these come this way? What kind of motor assembly is recommended? I sense a trip to eBay again here... Whatever it is, it will probably have to have the motor/bearbox all on the truck I think. The front truck is glued to the frame. I think I'll have to have a 3 axle dummy truck that screws like a car truck direct into the frame. Anyone make a good cast metal one? I don't want to use a plastic truck on this. Kinda ruins it, I think. Any suggestions to power this unit? AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4163	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/18/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel

One of the hurdles that cannot be overcome with any of the Strombecker diesels is that they were designed and built to a 1:96 (1/8") to a foot scale rather than the HO 1:87 (3.5 mm). This 10% difference is noticeable. BTW, if memory serves correctly, the diesels (CITY or B&O) are E-6s or E-3s. The long straight nose slope would also have been far more easy to mill than the more complex curves of the later models. Other problem with powering these locomotives: 1) The difficulty of installing a power truck in such a way that the locomotive does not look as if it is perching on four or six wheeled outsized roller skates. Ditto with trucks under the cars. 2) Gaining sufficient weight to actually pull the Strombecker cars. The solid white pine block offers few possibilities for added weight where it will do any good at all, especially if there is only one power truck. I have one complete Strombecker Rock Island Rocket set, and a partial second set sufficient to finish off one train set well- an effort that is underway episodically over the years. The cars are finely finished with the wood completely filled to a high smooth silver gloss. The Varney express reefer trucks under the cars are ancient, but certainly contemporary to the kit, and look good to boot. Without having to destroy the appearance of the cars by cutting out the skirts, I have preserved the seamless line of the skirting by expanding the clearance for the trucks by milling out only the bare minimum of only the insides of the low skirts to the point that the trucks can be both inset at the proper height, but also then rotate sufficiently that the cars can actually go around curves (probably 24" or 26" minimum radius). The coach and observation are articulated with a brass drawbar fixed in place on one car, and fitted over a pin in the second car. The truck rotates on a pin in the middle of the bar. Diaphragms are old Walthers and what couplers there are are old Varney dummies. The cars couple at roughly scale intervals. The locomotive remains unfinished. I have a new-in-box Walthers power truck of the DC-60 type that they provided for their Shuttle Jack and gas electrics. I have milled out the space in the locomotive block, and I "think" I have been able to provide enough room for the truck to swivel without (again) cutting out the skirting. Getting enough weight to where it will do good is still an unsolved problem, but if it can be solved, it will probably involve milling out space in the shaped upper wood block. Still and all, these are still close-to, but still out-of-scale toys, handsome and attractive as they are, and can be. This is especially made clear when one actually sets one of these models alongside a fine brass model of the same train. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4164	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/18/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel

To me they have mainly historical interest--what was available way back then.   Iowa?  had an MD/MR  friend in Mason City, passed away in May   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Denny Anspach To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 7:19 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel One of the hurdles that cannot be overcome with any of the Strombecker diesels is that they were designed and built to a 1:96 (1/8") to a foot scale rather than the HO 1:87 (3.5 mm). This 10% difference is noticeable. BTW, if memory serves correctly, the diesels (CITY or B&O) are E-6s or E-3s. The long straight nose slope would also have been far more easy to mill than the more complex curves of the later models. Other problem with powering these locomotives: 1) The difficulty of installing a power truck in such a way that the locomotive does not look as if it is perching on four or six wheeled outsized roller skates. Ditto with trucks under the cars. 2) Gaining sufficient weight to actually pull the Strombecker cars. The solid white pine block offers few possibilities for added weight where it will do any good at all, especially if there is only one power truck. I have one complete Strombecker Rock Island Rocket set, and a partial second set sufficient to finish off one train set well- an effort that is underway episodically over the years. The cars are finely finished with the wood completely filled to a high smooth silver gloss. The Varney express reefer trucks under the cars are ancient, but certainly contemporary to the kit, and look good to boot. Without having to destroy the appearance of the cars by cutting out the skirts, I have preserved the seamless line of the skirting by expanding the clearance for the trucks by milling out only the bare minimum of only the insides of the low skirts to the point that the trucks can be both inset at the proper height, but also then rotate sufficiently that the cars can actually go around curves (probably 24" or 26" minimum radius). The coach and observation are articulated with a brass drawbar fixed in place on one car, and fitted over a pin in the second car. The truck rotates on a pin in the middle of the bar. Diaphragms are old Walthers and what couplers there are are old Varney dummies. The cars couple at roughly scale intervals. The locomotive remains unfinished. I have a new-in-box Walthers power truck of the DC-60 type that they provided for their Shuttle Jack and gas electrics. I have milled out the space in the locomotive block, and I "think" I have been able to provide enough room for the truck to swivel without (again) cutting out the skirting. Getting enough weight to where it will do good is still an unsolved problem, but if it can be solved, it will probably involve milling out space in the shaped upper wood block. Still and all, these are still close-to, but still out-of-scale toys, handsome and attractive as they are, and can be. This is especially made clear when one actually sets one of these models alongside a fine brass model of the same train. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4165	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

Hi, all, A friend of my dad's just gave me some vintage HO scale, as he knew his grandkids would just put it up on eBay, while I would actually care for it. Anyway, the locomotive is an American Flyer 4-6-4 Hudson. I am guessing prewar, as the man is in his 80s and has had it for a while. I put it on my track, and only heard a relay go in the tender. I don't know much about Flyer, but do know they did some interesting things with reversers. Is this maybe an Alternating Current loco? Google turns up just a bunch of auctions. Sigh. What do I need to do if I want to run this engine? Thanks to all, Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4166	From: jay matz	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

Steve It is AC. Jay railwaymodeler <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: Hi, all, A friend of my dad's just gave me some vintage HO scale, as he knew his grandkids would just put it up on eBay, while I would actually care for it. Anyway, the locomotive is an American Flyer 4-6-4 Hudson. I am guessing prewar, as the man is in his 80s and has had it for a while. I put it on my track, and only heard a relay go in the tender. I don't know much about Flyer, but do know they did some interesting things with reversers. Is this maybe an Alternating Current loco? Google turns up just a bunch of auctions. Sigh. What do I need to do if I want to run this engine? Thanks to all, Steve Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4167	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

I had a Lionel 4-6-4 Hudson, that was brought out just befoire WW2, but it was OO gauge. The reversing unit was the same as with the :Lionel O gauge, a solenoid that pulled a rotary switch from forward-neutral-reverse-neutral-forward, etc. by interrupting the A.C. The tender held a whistle unit. I have never heard  that American Flyer made a Hudson. I also am in my 80's. Hi, all, A friend of my dad's just gave me some vintage HO scale, as he knew his grandkids would just put it up on eBay, while I would actually care for it. Anyway, the locomotive is an American Flyer 4-6-4 Hudson. I am guessing prewar, as the man is in his 80s and has had it for a while. I put it on my track, and only heard a relay go in the tender. I don't know much about Flyer, but do know they did some interesting things with reversers. Is this maybe an Alternating Current loco? Google turns up just a bunch of auctions. Sigh. What do I need to do if I want to run this engine? Thanks to all, Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4168	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

I believe that the pre-war ones were AC--there was a magnet available to convert the motor to DC. ----- Original Message ----- From: railwaymodeler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4169	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

Lionel made four different versions of the Hudson--#001 was "detailed" and 3-rail.  #002 was less fancy, also 3-rail.  #003 was like the 001, but 2-rail, 004 was the 2-rail equivalent of the 002.  A "W" suffix to the number indicated a whistle.   The 2-rail ones  will run on DC, but will not reverse, and the whistle, if present, will blow continuously.  The OO models are about 1/7 larger than the same in HO.  and yes, Flyer also made a Hudson in HO.  They still offered them in the late 1950's.  I recall taking the chassis of one and installing it in a damaged PFM Daylight boiler sort of like one of SP's semi-streamlined Pacifics.  ----- Original Message ----- From: A.W. Wallace To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout I had a Lionel 4-6-4 Hudson, that was brought out just befoire WW2, but it was OO gauge. The reversing unit was the same as with the :Lionel O gauge, a solenoid that pulled a rotary switch from forward-neutral- reverse-neutral- forward, etc. by interrupting the A.C. The tender held a whistle unit. I have never heard  that American Flyer made a Hudson. I also am in my 80's. Hi, all, A friend of my dad's just gave me some vintage HO scale, as he knew his grandkids would just put it up on eBay, while I would actually care for it. Anyway, the locomotive is an American Flyer 4-6-4 Hudson. I am guessing prewar, as the man is in his 80s and has had it for a while. I put it on my track, and only heard a relay go in the tender. I don't know much about Flyer, but do know they did some interesting things with reversers. Is this maybe an Alternating Current loco? Google turns up just a bunch of auctions. Sigh. What do I need to do if I want to run this engine? Thanks to all, Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4170	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

Hi Gentleman, The model of the New York Central Hudson by AC Gilbert / American Flyer, that I have, runs on two rail HO DC powered track. Modified? who knows, but these are powered somewhat like the British made models and the older Chinese made Bachman models. They don't have a gearbox which locks all the wheels when the engine is not under power. Rather, they have a gear on each driver and the motor is mounted perpendicular to the frame, allowing the engine to coast, somewhat, when not under power. Big heavy engines, they are.   Regards, Brian    Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4171	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

OK, here's some additional info: There is cast in info on the top of the tender deck that specfically states the loco is made by AC Gilbert. No mistaking the builder. Called the local hobby shop, where I'm friends with the owner. He says that later (1950s) models of this engine were DC, but prewar was AC with the reverser unit in the tender like mine. I guess this will make a decent display piece if nothing else. At least I got some paper and wood cars in the box too, and some vintage track (fiberboard ties, brass rail, and brass clips holding them together. -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bslook@... wrote: > > Hi Gentleman, The model of the New York Central Hudson by AC Gilbert / > American Flyer, that I have, runs on two rail HO DC powered track. Modified? who > knows, but these are powered somewhat like the British made models and the > older Chinese made Bachman models. They don't have a gearbox which locks all the > wheels when the engine is not under power. Rather, they have a gear on each > driver and the motor is mounted perpendicular to the frame, allowing the > engine to coast, somewhat, when not under power. Big heavy engines, they are. > > Regards, Brian > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4172	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

Pittman made the replacement magnet field for operation on 6 volt, DC. My pre-war AF Hudson was already worn out when HO scale was changed over to 12 volts, DC. I had also acquired a WW 2 edition of this same HO locomotive but, that had inferior boiler and tender castings which exploded and collapsed within a few years. The tender trucks and the locomotive and tender frames were of good metal and exist today. Good luck, Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4173	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

it's always interesting to display what was "State of the Art" back then-- ----- Original Message ----- From: railwaymodeler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout OK, here's some additional info: There is cast in info on the top of the tender deck that specfically states the loco is made by AC Gilbert. No mistaking the builder. Called the local hobby shop, where I'm friends with the owner. He says that later (1950s) models of this engine were DC, but prewar was AC with the reverser unit in the tender like mine. I guess this will make a decent display piece if nothing else. At least I got some paper and wood cars in the box too, and some vintage track (fiberboard ties, brass rail, and brass clips holding them together. .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4174	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

Running on DC sounds like the postwar versions.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: bslook@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout Hi Gentleman, The model of the New York Central Hudson by AC Gilbert / American Flyer, that I have, runs on two rail HO DC powered track. Modified? who knows, but these are powered somewhat like the British made models and the older Chinese made Bachman models. They don't have a gearbox which locks all the wheels when the engine is not under power. Rather, they have a gear on each driver and the motor is mounted perpendicular to the frame, allowing the engine to coast, somewhat, when not under power. Big heavy engines, they are.   Regards, Brian    Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4175	From: curmudgeon	Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

AC engines run fine on DC. Most of my "0" 2-rail steam were field-wound motors. They all had a "hand-reverse" of some sort. Later we added rectumfriers in the tenders (old selenium plate units were generally too big for in-loco). I never tried one with an e-unit, but they worked the same as the hand-reverse, so it should work. A story: Many years ago I was running at a large 2-rail "0" layout, double- tracked mains, running my two ScaleCraft steamers that still had field-wound motors. Opposite directions, full chat, long trains. Came refreshment time, I closed both throttles. Remained at full chat. FWD/REV to neutral. Full chat. Power switches to "off". Full chat. At which point I rounded up the owner. He reached for the throttles, which were off, the FWD/REV, which were neutral, power switch which was off. At that point he began opening compartments, exposing mains plugs. Pulled the plug on the pack, full chat. He got to the auxillary power for switch machines and signals, full stop. Seems one of the Tenshodo machines, the plastic tubing for the arm that closed the signal contacts had fallen off of one machine (which I found about 20 minutes later), placing 16VAC to the common ground system. Had those engines had can motors, we would have had smoke, but they ran just fine on AC or DC. I eventually found K&D drop-in replacements in permag configuration, have all the original parts labelled in boxes. My General Models Mountain still has a field-wound motor. NONE of my 2-rail "0" has can motors, if I recall. Wouldn't dream of it. > > Running on DC sounds like the postwar versions. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bslook@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:59 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout > > > > Hi Gentleman, The model of the New York Central Hudson by AC Gilbert / American Flyer, that I have, runs on two rail HO DC powered track. Modified? who knows, but these are powered somewhat like the British made models and the older Chinese made Bachman models. They don't have a gearbox which locks all the wheels when the engine is not under power. Rather, they have a gear on each driver and the motor is mounted perpendicular to the frame, allowing the engine to coast, somewhat, when not under power. Big heavy engines, they are. > > Regards, Brian > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4176	From: Dale Smith	Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

I know a little bit about American Flyer, as I collect mostly S Gauge, but I also have a few HO pieces.  Don't give up on getting it running.  There is a lot that can be done with reverse units using TV tuner or electric motor cleaner.  Just make sure it doesn't contain oil.  Also many parts are available, not as many as for S gauge, though.   Remember, an AC gilbert AC motor is really a universal motor that can run on AC or DC.  Even if you can't get the reverse unit to work, you can bypass it.  If you put a bridge rectifier circuit in series with the field, you can even get polarity reversing.  If you are interested,  I can send you a diagram.   If you can give me a little bit more information, I can get you some more details.  Some of the locomotives of this vintage are rarely found in good condition.  Does it have diecast or bakelite wheels?  What is the number on the cab?  I have access to a lot of reference material on Gilbert HO and can probably provide you with some more specific information about your loco.    You should also be aware that there is a very large S-trains group on Yahoo, where we get into HO every once in a while and there are people there who might be able to provide more information.     Dale Smith Pacifica, CA   ----- Original Message ----- From: railwaymodeler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout OK, here's some additional info: There is cast in info on the top of the tender deck that specfically states the loco is made by AC Gilbert. No mistaking the builder. Called the local hobby shop, where I'm friends with the owner. He says that later (1950s) models of this engine were DC, but prewar was AC with the reverser unit in the tender like mine. I guess this will make a decent display piece if nothing else. At least I got some paper and wood cars in the box too, and some vintage track (fiberboard ties, brass rail, and brass clips holding them together. -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, bslook@... wrote: > > Hi Gentleman, The model of the New York Central Hudson by AC Gilbert / > American Flyer, that I have, runs on two rail HO DC powered track. Modified? who > knows, but these are powered somewhat like the British made models and the > older Chinese made Bachman models. They don't have a gearbox which locks all the > wheels when the engine is not under power. Rather, they have a gear on each > driver and the motor is mounted perpendicular to the frame, allowing the > engine to coast, somewhat, when not under power. Big heavy engines, they are. > > Regards, Brian > > > > ************ ********* ********* ******** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4177	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout- It RUNS!

Hi, all! After talking to a friend of mine today and showing him the engine, he thought it would run on DC too. Well, I just spend an hour and a half figuring out how to disassemble this thing, and managed to trace the leads of the wires. I used to work with Lionel open frame motors- I have Autism/Asperger's Syndrome and have been fixing Lionel motors since I was four. Anyway, I traced the leads, and now have the engine running. Forward only, but that's good enough for now, and certainly enough to pull my Varney paper and wood coaches! I'm excited now! -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> wrote: > > I know a little bit about American Flyer, as I collect mostly S Gauge, but I also have a few HO pieces. Don't give up on getting it running. There is a lot that can be done with reverse units using TV tuner or electric motor cleaner. Just make sure it doesn't contain oil. Also many parts are available, not as many as for S gauge, though. > > Remember, an AC gilbert AC motor is really a universal motor that can run on AC or DC. Even if you can't get the reverse unit to work, you can bypass it. If you put a bridge rectifier circuit in series with the field, you can even get polarity reversing. If you are interested, I can send you a diagram. > > If you can give me a little bit more information, I can get you some more details. Some of the locomotives of this vintage are rarely found in good condition. Does it have diecast or bakelite wheels? What is the number on the cab? I have access to a lot of reference material on Gilbert HO and can probably provide you with some more specific information about your loco. > > You should also be aware that there is a very large S-trains group on Yahoo, where we get into HO every once in a while and there are people there who might be able to provide more information. > > > Dale Smith > Pacifica, CA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: railwaymodeler > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:04 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout > > > OK, here's some additional info: There is cast in info on the top of > the tender deck that specfically states the loco is made by AC > Gilbert. No mistaking the builder. > > Called the local hobby shop, where I'm friends with the owner. He says > that later (1950s) models of this engine were DC, but prewar was AC > with the reverser unit in the tender like mine. > > I guess this will make a decent display piece if nothing else. At > least I got some paper and wood cars in the box too, and some vintage > track (fiberboard ties, brass rail, and brass clips holding them together. > > -Steve > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bslook@ wrote: > > > > Hi Gentleman, The model of the New York Central Hudson by AC Gilbert / > > American Flyer, that I have, runs on two rail HO DC powered track. > Modified? who > > knows, but these are powered somewhat like the British made models > and the > > older Chinese made Bachman models. They don't have a gearbox which > locks all the > > wheels when the engine is not under power. Rather, they have a gear > on each > > driver and the motor is mounted perpendicular to the frame, allowing > the > > engine to coast, somewhat, when not under power. Big heavy engines, > they are. > > > > Regards, Brian > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the > all-new AOL at > > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4178	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/25/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout

I have found that these AF Hudsons have such wide driver flanges that they will not easily track through an awful lot of turnout frogs, and they will not operate at all on code 70. By even contemporary HO standards, these locomotives were pretty rough runners with a coarse gear drive. They were intended as toys, not scale models. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4179	From: Nick	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Repowering Athearn RDCs

Has anyone re-powered an Athearn RDC? I tried to replace the rubber bands on one but they apparently are not the right ones even though I bought them from the Athearn catalog. I am interested in re-powering the trucks to a gear drive. Thanks in advance, Nick Brown San Diego

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4180	From: Charles Kinzer	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

"Ernst" had repowering kits for these (and for Athearn hustlers and for some other Athearn engines I think).  You might find one on ebay.  I did and I've got it somewhere, but don't know where.  Never installed the kit, however, so can't comment on results.   Chuck Kinzer Nick <nbrownfzi@...> wrote: Has anyone re-powered an Athearn RDC? I tried to replace the rubber bands on one but they apparently are not the right ones even though I bought them from the Athearn catalog. I am interested in re-powering the trucks to a gear drive. Thanks in advance, Nick Brown San Diego

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4181	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

I re-powered an RDC with an Ernst kit many years ago, and it works very well. I only powered one truck, and it pulls itself and a couple of dummy units around with no problem. I don't know if the Ernst kit is still available, but it was very nicely done. If anyone wants to see what it looks like, I can take a picture of the power unit and put into the photos sections tomorrow. Mike Nick wrote: > > > Has anyone re-powered an Athearn RDC? I tried to replace the rubber > bands on one but they apparently are not the right ones even though I > bought them from the Athearn catalog. I am interested in re-powering > the trucks to a gear drive. > > Thanks in advance, > > Nick Brown > San Diego >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4182	From: Nick	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

Hi Mike, I definitely would like to see what it looks like. Let me know when the picture is posted. Even if I can't find the Ernst kit, it will give me an idea of how to go about it. Nick --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > I re-powered an RDC with an Ernst kit many years ago, and it works very > well. I only powered one truck, and it pulls itself and a couple of > dummy units around with no problem. I don't know if the Ernst kit is > still available, but it was very nicely done. If anyone wants to see > what it looks like, I can take a picture of the power unit and put into > the photos sections tomorrow. > > Mike >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4183	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

I think Ernst offered a repower--but why bother if it is the plastic one.  The Proto 1000's are available cheap, and are the correct length.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4184	From: jerrygart5	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Charles Kinzer <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > "Ernst" had repowering kits for these (and for Athearn hustlers and for some other Athearn engines I think). You might find one on ebay. I did and I've got it somewhere, but don't know where. Never installed the kit, however, so can't comment on results. > > Chuck Kinzer > > Nick <nbrownfzi@...> wrote: > Has anyone re-powered an Athearn RDC? I tried to replace the rubber > bands on one but they apparently are not the right ones even though I > bought them from the Athearn catalog. I am interested in re-powering > the trucks to a gear drive. > > Thanks in advance, > > Nick Brown > San Diego > Ernst gear sets are listed in the Walthers 2007 catalog, pg. 279. For RDC's, # is 259-3, price is $11.98. JerryG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4185	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

They worked pretty well , NWSL offered SPUDS [self-powered trucks] terrific units , but pricey. Henry Hultgren--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I think Ernst offered a repower--but why bother if it is the plastic one. The Proto 1000's are available cheap, and are the correct length. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Nick > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:22 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4186	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

Because the Proto 1000's are not classic vintage, and off topic here.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs I think Ernst offered a repower--but why bother if it is the plastic one.  The Proto 1000's are available cheap, and are the correct length.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4187	From: sean naylor	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

Not that my opinion matters... I do not like proto much either...   Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Because the Proto 1000's are not classic vintage, and off topic here.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs I think Ernst offered a repower--but why bother if it is the plastic one.  The Proto 1000's are available cheap, and are the correct length.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4188	From: Nick	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

All, Thanks for the help so far on my question. So here's what I am thinking of: I bought some Athearn RDC-1s and 3s off ebay with the idea of doing some kit bashing. One idea I had in mind was re-powering the front truck (baggage end) on the RDC-3 and connecting it to a dummy RDC-1 and making a single articulated unit. Another possibility I was thinking of is to use two RDC-1s and make the center truck powered. Not prototype at all. More of a 'what if Budd decided to do this' idea. As for the Proto 1000 RDCs, I do have some and because they are more accurate models of the Budd RDC, I don't want to cut on them. Mike, I would still like to see the picture you spoke of. Nick Brown

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4189	From: Nick	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

Hi Jerry, Thanks. The online catalog (Aug. 07) doesn't list them but I'll keep an eye out. Nick --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jerrygart5" <jerryg@...> wrote: > > > Ernst gear sets are listed in the Walthers 2007 catalog, pg. 279. > For RDC's, # is 259-3, price is $11.98. JerryG >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4190	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

I just put 5 images up in a new album called "Mike Sloane's Vintage Stuff". The problem is that the unit is constructed of black plastic with black gears, so it is very hard to see, even after I forced the contrast and brightness up as much as I dared. I can send much larger images off-line to anyone who wants a better view. As you can see, the conversion uses the original truck frame and is supported entirely by the axles, which are replacements for the original brass + drum. Also, the original support for the Hi-F line shaft has to be chopped off to permit the gear box to straddle the area. I seem to recall that the conversion kit came with the flywheel, but I could be wrong about that - it was installed a LONG time ago. Frankly, I really think that trying to replicate that gear tower would be very difficult, and you would be better off trying to find a NOS kit - I don't think the installation took me more than an hour (and I work slow). Mike sean naylor wrote: > > > Not that my opinion matters... I do not like proto much either... > > Sean > > */Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>/* wrote: > > Because the Proto 1000's are not classic vintage, and off topic here. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann@...> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > <http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann> > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY> > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Glenn476 <mailto:glenn476@...> > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:43 PM > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs > > I think Ernst offered a repower--but why bother if it is the > plastic one. The Proto 1000's are available cheap, and are the > correct length. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Nick <mailto:nbrownfzi@...> > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:22 PM > *Subject:* [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48224/*http://sims.yahoo.com/> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.10/977 - Release Date: 8/28/2007 4:29 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4191	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

I just put 5 images up in a new album called "Mike Sloane's Vintage Stuff". The problem is that the unit is constructed of black plastic with black gears, so it is very hard to see, even after I forced the contrast and brightness up as much as I dared. I can send much larger images off-line to anyone who wants a better view. As you can see, the conversion uses the original truck frame and is supported entirely by the axles, which are replacements for the original brass + drum. Also, the original support for the Hi-F line shaft has to be chopped off to permit the gear box to straddle the area. I seem to recall that the conversion kit came with the flywheel, but I could be wrong about that - it was installed a LONG time ago. Frankly, I really think that trying to replicate that gear tower would be very difficult, and you would be better off trying to find a NOS kit - I don't think the installation took me more than an hour (and I work slow). Mike sean naylor wrote: > > > Not that my opinion matters... I do not like proto much either... > > Sean > > */Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>/* wrote: > > Because the Proto 1000's are not classic vintage, and off topic here. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann@...> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > <http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann> > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY> > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Glenn476 <mailto:glenn476@...> > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:43 PM > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs > > I think Ernst offered a repower--but why bother if it is the > plastic one. The Proto 1000's are available cheap, and are the > correct length. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Nick <mailto:nbrownfzi@...> > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:22 PM > *Subject:* [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4192	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Shuttle Jack

Attachments : Picture of recently completed Walthers Shuttle Jack at North Milwaukee station, the scan by Richard Moessner shows it in a 1963 catalog. Do not know the years it was available. Not real difficult but a lot of tweaking and runs pretty good. This one has a gear drive, one of our club members said he has one with a spring berlt drive that he never get to run decent. The Shuttle Jack is pulling a Walthers 25th anniversary Executive Car also recently completed. Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4193	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

OK--somehow I didn't consider the plastic Athearn RDC as a "Classic"---now as for the older metal version---I have one of those that needs a power truck--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs Because the Proto 1000's are not classic vintage, and off topic here.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs I think Ernst offered a repower--but why bother if it is the plastic one.  The Proto 1000's are available cheap, and are the correct length.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4194	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

Agreed, they have been available up to very recently, but they WERE introduced about 50 years ago, so can qualify.    Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs OK--somehow I didn't consider the plastic Athearn RDC as a "Classic"---now as for the older metal version---I have one of those that needs a power truck--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs Because the Proto 1000's are not classic vintage, and off topic here.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs I think Ernst offered a repower--but why bother if it is the plastic one.  The Proto 1000's are available cheap, and are the correct length.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4195	From: Glenn476	Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs

I guess so--now that I think about it I made 2 proper-length RDC's out of 3 back when I was still in high school--so that was pre-1959--meanwhile, any thoughts on powering the metal RDC?  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs Agreed, they have been available up to very recently, but they WERE introduced about 50 years ago, so can qualify.    Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs OK--somehow I didn't consider the plastic Athearn RDC as a "Classic"--- now as for the older metal version---I have one of those that needs a power truck--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs Because the Proto 1000's are not classic vintage, and off topic here.   Don   don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs I think Ernst offered a repower--but why bother if it is the plastic one.  The Proto 1000's are available cheap, and are the correct length.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Repowering Athearn RDCs

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4196	From: cnj999	Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> wrote: > > Picture of recently completed Walthers Shuttle Jack at North Milwaukee > station, the scan by Richard Moessner shows it in a 1963 catalog. Do not > know the years it was available. Not real difficult but a lot of tweaking > and runs pretty good. > Roger Aultman > I believe Walther's ShuttleJack was introduced in 1954 and remained available for at least a decade. Quite a few magazine ads concerning it in the beginning but little mention toward the end...sorta like their HH660 (whose run was far, far longer). Its main intent was supposed to be as a piece of passenger or mixed train motivepower with a very small turning radius to fit some of those tiny, early post war, spaghettibowl, HO "Bantam" layouts (as Westcott dubbed them) of the day. I don't think the unit ever proved very popular as it certainly isn't seen very often today on eBay, or elsewhere. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4197	From: Nick	Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.

My first HO train set (Christmas 1963) was made by Lionel. The locomotive has a rubber band drive and looks a lot like the Athearn Hustler. I still have the locomotive. Any chance they're related? Nick

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4198	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack

----- Original Message ----- From: cnj999 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:41 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Shuttle Jack --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> wrote: > > Picture of recently completed Walthers Shuttle Jack at North Milwaukee > station, the scan by Richard Moessner shows it in a 1963 catalog. Do not > know the years it was available. Not real difficult but a lot of tweaking > and runs pretty good. > Roger Aultman > I believe Walther's ShuttleJack was introduced in 1954 and remained available for at least a decade. Quite a few magazine ads concerning it in the beginning but little mention toward the end...sorta like their HH660 (whose run was far, far longer). Its main intent was supposed to be as a piece of passenger or mixed train motivepower with a very small turning radius to fit some of those tiny, early post war, spaghettibowl, HO "Bantam" layouts (as Westcott dubbed them) of the day. I don't think the unit ever proved very popular as it certainly isn't seen very often today on eBay, or elsewhere. CNJ999 It seems like either MR or Model Trains had a project railroad where they assembled a Shuttle Jack for motive power, could not find in my mags.   Roger

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4199	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.

It most likely is Athearn who made many Lionel items including using the Hustler.  I thought the the Lionel version, however, had a gear drive.  Maybe they changed to it, or from it, somewhere along the line.   Athearn even made some gondolas once that were for general sale and not for Lionel, but accidentally had the little "Lionel" printed on the side.  I think this is mildly collectable.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:54 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set. My first HO train set (Christmas 1963) was made by Lionel. The locomotive has a rubber band drive and looks a lot like the Athearn Hustler. I still have the locomotive. Any chance they're related? Nick

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4200	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack

I rather suspect that production numbers simply were much smaller back then. Think of how few and rare are the Walthers Pug passenger cars that were run in the same era and likely were made in greater numbers than the Shuttle-Jack. I have only seen one-half of a Shuttle Jack for sale in the last forty years, in the flesh, and doubt if I have seen even one pictured sitting on a layout in a magazine during those same 40 years. Likewise, I have only seen less than a half-dozen Paul Moore trolleys/ gas-electrics/passenger-cars in the last 40 years and he produced those for 30-40 years in hundreds of varieties. I suspect that nearly all of the older model railroad models have been disposed of or destroyed over the years. Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Aug 30, 2007, at 7:41 AM, cnj999 wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> wrote: >> >> Picture of recently completed Walthers Shuttle Jack at North > Milwaukee >> station, the scan by Richard Moessner shows it in a 1963 catalog. > Do not >> know the years it was available. Not real difficult but a lot of > tweaking >> and runs pretty good. >> Roger Aultman >> > > I believe Walther's ShuttleJack was introduced in 1954 and remained > available for at least a decade. Quite a few magazine ads concerning > it in the beginning but little mention toward the end...sorta like > their HH660 (whose run was far, far longer). > > Its main intent was supposed to be as a piece of passenger or mixed > train motivepower with a very small turning radius to fit some of > those tiny, early post war, spaghettibowl, HO "Bantam" layouts (as > Westcott dubbed them) of the day. I don't think the unit ever proved > very popular as it certainly isn't seen very often today on eBay, or > elsewhere. > > CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4201	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack

These old models had tinplate sides and zamac underframe/end components, so with life in a damp basement or hot garage back in the 50’s (who had an airconditioned house, much less an airconditioned basement/garage back then???) tended to take its toll.  Consequently, they ended up in the trashcans and off we went to the hobby shop to get “the latest and greatest”.   Seems the “everlasting” models are of the brass variety-but just look on Ebay and observe the condition of some of the offerings. . . . .   JerryG.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 8:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Shuttle Jack   I rather suspect that production numbers simply were much smaller back then. Think of how few and rare are the Walthers Pug passenger cars that were run in the same era and likely were made in greater numbers than the Shuttle-Jack. I have only seen one-half of a Shuttle Jack for sale in the last forty years, in the flesh, and doubt if I have seen even one pictured sitting on a layout in a magazine during those same 40 years. Likewise, I have only seen less than a half-dozen Paul Moore trolleys/ gas-electrics/passenger-cars in the last 40 years and he produced those for 30-40 years in hundreds of varieties. I suspect that nearly all of the older model railroad models have been disposed of or destroyed over the years. Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Aug 30, 2007, at 7:41 AM, cnj999 wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> wrote: >> >> Picture of recently completed Walthers Shuttle Jack at North > Milwaukee >> station, the scan by Richard Moessner shows it in a 1963 catalog. > Do not >> know the years it was available. Not real difficult but a lot of > tweaking >> and runs pretty good. >> Roger Aultman >> > > I believe Walther's ShuttleJack was introduced in 1954 and remained > available for at least a decade. Quite a few magazine ads concerning > it in the beginning but little mention toward the end...sorta like > their HH660 (whose run was far, far longer). > > Its main intent was supposed to be as a piece of passenger or mixed > train motivepower with a very small turning radius to fit some of > those tiny, early post war, spaghettibowl, HO "Bantam" layouts (as > Westcott dubbed them) of the day. I don't think the unit ever proved > very popular as it certainly isn't seen very often today on eBay, or > elsewhere. > > CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4202	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack

The Shuttle Jack I recently assembled has a two piece gear box bottom cover, not designed that way, while filling of some flash it just fell apart in the middle.  Fortunately there are six screws so it is possible to still use it since that time I have aquired some parts so there is a spare should it be needed.  Roger Aultman         ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Garteiser To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:31 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Shuttle Jack These old models had tinplate sides and zamac underframe/end components, so with life in a damp basement or hot garage back in the 50’s (who had an airconditioned house, much less an airconditioned basement/garage back then???) tended to take its toll.  Consequently, they ended up in the trashcans and off we went to the hobby shop to get “the latest and greatest”. Seems the “everlasting” models are of the brass variety-but just look on Ebay and observe the condition of some of the offerings. . . . . JerryG. From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 8:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Shuttle Jack I rather suspect that production numbers simply were much smaller back then. Think of how few and rare are the Walthers Pug passenger cars that were run in the same era and likely were made in greater numbers than the Shuttle-Jack. I have only seen one-half of a Shuttle Jack for sale in the last forty years, in the flesh, and doubt if I have seen even one pictured sitting on a layout in a magazine during those same 40 years. Likewise, I have only seen less than a half-dozen Paul Moore trolleys/ gas-electrics/ passenger- cars in the last 40 years and he produced those for 30-40 years in hundreds of varieties. I suspect that nearly all of the older model railroad models have been disposed of or destroyed over the years. Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Aug 30, 2007, at 7:41 AM, cnj999 wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> wrote: >> >> Picture of recently completed Walthers Shuttle Jack at North > Milwaukee >> station, the scan by Richard Moessner shows it in a 1963 catalog. > Do not >> know the years it was available. Not real difficult but a lot of > tweaking >> and runs pretty good. >> Roger Aultman >> > > I believe Walther's ShuttleJack was introduced in 1954 and remained > available for at least a decade. Quite a few magazine ads concerning > it in the beginning but little mention toward the end...sorta like > their HH660 (whose run was far, far longer). > > Its main intent was supposed to be as a piece of passenger or mixed > train motivepower with a very small turning radius to fit some of > those tiny, early post war, spaghettibowl, HO "Bantam" layouts (as > Westcott dubbed them) of the day. I don't think the unit ever proved > very popular as it certainly isn't seen very often today on eBay, or > elsewhere. > > CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4203	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack

Just a few notes on the Shuttle Jack. My sister-in-law worked for Walthers for several years and I asked her about some of the old products. As has been suggested, the production runs were very short compared with modern injection molded offerings. these were made in runs of about 50 to 100 each. That was probably enough for a year's worth of sales! The Shuttle Jack was made as a 'close enough' copy of the Santa Fe M-190 but since it wasn't really "close enough" for the Santa Fe modelers it never really took off. Most of the ones that I have seen (I own two) were started but never finished. Like their other Walther's Gas electrics based on Passenger car construction, they were hard to build and have look good. The drive units were good and usually when you find a kit, the drive is gone (used to power something else) and the kit is just some sheet metal and wood. I used half a Bachman 44-tonner drive off one of their first-run GE 44-tonners (with the twin drives) and they run well. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cnj999" <jbortle@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@> wrote: > > > > Picture of recently completed Walthers Shuttle Jack at North > Milwaukee > > station, the scan by Richard Moessner shows it in a 1963 catalog. > Do not > > know the years it was available. Not real difficult but a lot of > tweaking > > and runs pretty good. > > Roger Aultman > > > > I believe Walther's ShuttleJack was introduced in 1954 and remained > available for at least a decade. Quite a few magazine ads concerning > it in the beginning but little mention toward the end...sorta like > their HH660 (whose run was far, far longer). > > Its main intent was supposed to be as a piece of passenger or mixed > train motivepower with a very small turning radius to fit some of > those tiny, early post war, spaghettibowl, HO "Bantam" layouts (as > Westcott dubbed them) of the day. I don't think the unit ever proved > very popular as it certainly isn't seen very often today on eBay, or > elsewhere. > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4204	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack

I posted pics of one I found last year. Restoration is at a snails pace as usual. It has been stripped and the motor runs and has been cleaned and lubed. The gear box is crazed and will probably fall apart in the occurrence of a train wreck. I am still looking for a head light, but most of the other parts are there. Since I got it I have seen one on Ebay, partially built. Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4205	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 9/1/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack

Tom, I think I am the guy who got the partially built one. All the parts are there but the original builder got the roof details stared poorly and it is going to take some major rework to get it fixed. There was no power truck with that one. I am contemplating substituting an Athearn SW chassis per Bruce McCall's suggestion instead of trying to give it a single power truck. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "tomvanhoy" <tomvanhoy@...> wrote: > > I posted pics of one I found last year. Restoration is at a snails > pace as usual. It has been stripped and the motor runs and has been > cleaned and lubed. The gear box is crazed and will probably fall > apart in the occurrence of a train wreck. I am still looking for a > head light, but most of the other parts are there. Since I got it I > have seen one on Ebay, partially built. > Tom >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4206	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack

I had a finished and painted Shuttle-Jack in the latter fifties, which I traded to a custom model builder for eleven PRR Blue Line passenger kits. Although I wish I still had the Shuttle-Jack, the reason why I was more than happy to trade it away (a trade where I thought at the time that I got the better of the deal) was my conclusion that the model was built to 1/8"/ft. scale, not 3.5mm (very similar in this regard to all of the Walthers HO passenger cars). Just last year I sold all of the Blue Line kits, none ever built, nor even started. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4207	From: Garry Spear	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Mantua & Tyco

For Sale: All prices include Priority Mail shipping with delivery conformation. A new in the box Mantua 1890 style Combine Car. Lettered for the C. & F. W. Railroad, The box has 804-36 printed on the end. The box is orange and yellow. Asking $12.50. Pictures: http://home.att.net/%7Etwotwotrain/C221a.jpg http://home.att.net/%7Etwotwotrain/C221b.jpg Two, like new, Sharknose diesels. Lettered for Rock Island. Asking $25.00 Pictures: http://home.att.net/%7Etwotwotrain/C222a.jpg http://home.att.net/%7Etwotwotrain/C222b.jpg Payment can be check, Money Order, or Paypal (ask for instructions). Please make all responses off list. Garrett (Garry) Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4208	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

Hi Guys! I picked-up three Brass mantua Bridge Kits the other day (All mixed together). That's right.. Mantua ?? I looked on the HO Seeker site and found no refference to any?? I have no idea bout their original issue dates or anything else about them. They came with the through truss diagram, so I pieced one together, by laying over the drawings enough pieces for one kit in a box to sell as a complete kit and probably keep the two others. Does anyone have one that is built? I would sure love to see pics or have an idea of how to do it. I have pics I can post. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4209	From: Larry	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

Hello Sean You didn't dig deep enough to find at least one reference to bridges. There is probably more information buried within the Mantua information page. http://hoseeker.net/mantuainformation/mantua1941pg37.jpg http://www.hoseeker.net/mantuamiscellaneous.html Larry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys! > > I picked-up three Brass mantua Bridge Kits the other day (All mixed > together). That's right.. Mantua ?? I looked on the HO Seeker site and > found no refference to any?? I have no idea bout their original issue > dates or anything else about them. They came with the through truss > diagram, so I pieced one together, by laying over the drawings enough > pieces for one kit in a box to sell as a complete kit and probably keep > the two others. Does anyone have one that is built? I would sure love > to see pics or have an idea of how to do it. I have pics I can post. > > Thanks, > Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4210	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

Attachments : Pictures as promiced... Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4211	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

Thanks a TON Larry,   I just printed it out on good quality photo paper. The pic of the completed structure helps me greatly with the way it is meant to look. I have what appears to be 4 kits in three boxes. All of the 16" span (middle one pictured). Two are single track and two are double track. Not a bad buy for $30. I have sent a couple pics of what I have earlier.  If you would like a scan of the instructions, I can send one later. I would need to do it at work. My scanner is not long enough to do the job. Thanks, Sean Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4212	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack

----- Original Message ----- From: Denny Anspach To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 7:43 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Shuttle jack I had a finished and painted Shuttle-Jack in the latter fifties, which I traded to a custom model builder for eleven PRR Blue Line passenger kits. Although I wish I still had the Shuttle-Jack, the reason why I was more than happy to trade it away (a trade where I thought at the time that I got the better of the deal) was my conclusion that the model was built to 1/8"/ft. scale, not 3.5mm (very similar in this regard to all of the Walthers HO passenger cars). Just last year I sold all of the Blue Line kits, none ever built, nor even started. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa I had looked for a Shuttle Jack for some time and found this one on eBay complete with power truck, a little latter another came up without power truck. Bought that and latter a power truck came up, so now I havwe the opportunity to have double headed Jacks. Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4213	From: Glenn476	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

Those are from back when model railroaders knew how to solder! ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??   .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4214	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

My hat is off to all who can smolder that well , I still can't ! Hank H.--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Those are from back when model railroaders knew how to solder! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:32 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Brass Bridge Kits?? > > > > Recent Activity > a.. 8New Members > b.. 10New Photos > Visit Your Group > Yahoo! News > Fashion News > > What's the word on > > fashion and style? > > Sitebuilder > Build a web site > > quickly & easily > > with Sitebuilder. > > Best of Y! Groups > Discover groups > > that are the best > > of their class. > . > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4215	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

I have one of these (curved-chord truss) that I soldered together as a teenager in 1948-9- and it looks like it. At present it is in a number of pieces in a zip lock bag- also missing a few pieces. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4216	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Hultgren" <long95209@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 6:43 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits?? > My hat is off to all who can smolder that well , I still can't ! Hank > H.--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: >> >> Those are from back when model railroaders knew how to solder! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: sean naylor >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:32 AM >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Brass Bridge Kits?? Soldering is not as hard as it looks. The secret is a bigger gun or iron than the think you'll need (for non-electronic work, there is no such thing as too hot an iron, I solder 28 guage traction overhead with a 250 watt gun. The hotter it is the faster you can get in and out and the less chance of heat spreading to where you don't want it) and a good paste flux, of which there is ONE that works, brand name "nokorode" (comes in a little white plastic jar, if you find old stock in the little white metal tin it's even better). You can find it at most REAL hardware stores (I know many ACE stores carry it). It's the only brand I've ever found that's safe for electrical work. Also, you'll need REAL (tin/lead) solder, The new solders with no lead, and the new "environmentally safe" fluxes are garbage, don't waste your money. After that, just practice, you'll find how easy it is with just a little practice. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4217	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

Hello Denny, I may have a few extra lengths/pieces. If you can determine what you need, I can send you some. I might charge you $2 - $3 for the shipping. I could even send you a copy of the plan view of the side first, so you can lay all your pieces out and figure out which ones you need.   I would think it is a pretty rare kit. If it were me, I would want to have it complete and built, if it was already previously built.   I am selling one 16" single span this week as well as one of my Mantua Brass Atlantics. I am going after a 1969 Mustang with a 351W cu in engine and full delux interior, PS, P Disc Brakes and Air. I will need the cash to do it.   If you ever plan to put it back together, let me know. For now, I only plan to sell one of the kits.   Sean Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: I have one of these (curved-chord truss) that I soldered together as a teenager in 1948-9- and it looks like it. At present it is in a number of pieces in a zip lock bag- also missing a few pieces. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4218	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Soldering

Gentlemen: I have found that the best solder flux is one called "Sal-Met". It is a clear jell, and it will enable one to solder all metals. I have soldered Aluminum to Zamac with it, a result not obtainable with other fluxes. Very little is required, as an excess merely turns dark and interferes with the clean metal necessary for a good joint. It can be "cut" with amonia to make an effective flux for brass soldering.      The "secret" of good soldering can be said to be a bright tip, and heat. A bright tip transfers the heat to the parts to be joined. Too many people try to substitute pressure of the soldering iron tip for a bright tip to transfer heat.      Another "secret" is removal of the iron as soon as the solder has melted and flowed along the area being joined. Leaving the iron in place too long may unsolder adjacent parts. However, too swift a removal may result in a "cold" joint, which lacks strength, and eventually will separate. Thus, it is important to see the "flow" of the solder before backing off. Practice on scrap is recommended if you have doubts about when to "back off" from applying heat.      In all cases, use of abrasives to remove dirt from the area to be soldered is advised, before applying flux.      One should remember that a flux acts chemically, (The effect is hastened by the heat), and will contniue to "eat" at the metal even after cooling, of course at a greatly reduced rate. Therefore, removal of excess flux after cooling if advised, by brushing with water.      Silver Soldering requires much higher temperatures and special flux, and when used on brass, will result in a softening of the brass parts. Subsequent handling of softened brass parts must be done carefully to avoid bending damage.      These are things I have learned in 60 years of scratch-building HO steam locmotives.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4219	From: John bell	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Soldering...

Mr. Wallace, I have collected many articles, over the years, on soldering. I am no expert on the subject, but your few short paragraphs are, by far, the best I have ever read on the subject of soldering. I would suggest that everyone on this list make a copy of your short article on the art of soldering. Now, maybe we can get more folks to do soldering. Thank you, John Bell P.S. Where can we get "Sal-Met"?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4220	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Soldering...

Mr. Bell: The last address I had for the manufacturer of "Sal-Met" was: Henry Mfg. Co., 117 S. Crawford Street, Danville, Illinois 61832, Telephone (217) 442-3864.  As I bought my tube some 30 years ago, and have not even come close to using 1/4th of it, (the result of cutting it with amonia for use on brass) the address may be long out of date. Any electronic parts dealer sould be able to order it, as that sort of store was the last place I saw it for sale. Thank you for your complimentary remarks. John bell <jbell03@...> wrote: Mr. Wallace, I have collected many articles, over the years, on soldering. I am no expert on the subject, but your few short paragraphs are, by far, the best I have ever read on the subject of soldering. I would suggest that everyone on this list make a copy of your short article on the art of soldering. Now, maybe we can get more folks to do soldering. Thank you, John Bell P.S. Where can we get "Sal-Met"?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4221	From: Glenn476	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

is the Atla   ntic already on eBay? what is the item number?  that's the one Mantua loco I lack.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits?? .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4222	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

Attachments : Hello Glenn,   I have not listed it yet. I have been listing Mustang parts all day. I have a few more to list. It is the top one in this pic. The bottom one is not for sale.. The boiler has been altered to match the SP type.   Sean   Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: is the Atla   ntic already on eBay? what is the item number?  that's the one Mantua loco I lack.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits?? . Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4223	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??

I listed it Glenn..   330162413447 Never saw one listed before.. I woild like to see how it does. It is not my original version, but it is still rare none the less. Later, Off to bed!   Sean Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4224	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars

As I read this, I realized that the rest of the gang here would like to read it as well....... Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi Begin forwarded message: > From: Steele Family <rntsteele@...> > Date: September 3, 2007 9:25:37 PM CDT > To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars > Reply-To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com > > Glenn Joesten said: > > Without addressing specific brands, there were a series of > refinements over the years. Early kits and imports were often > "generic" as ,"Vestibule Coach", "Open Platform Coach",, > "Combine"---before most of realized that there were differences > between cars. Now we tend to see kits or RTR cars designated as > specific prototypes. One case in point is the narrower windows on > coach 319. gj > > You can also mention that the brand for kits that readily comes to > mind is LaBelle. > > Yup, that's the way they're labeled: D&RGW open platform coach; > D&RGW open platform combine; D&RGW open platform Baggage; D&RGW > open platform short RPO; D&RGW Closed Vestibule Coach; D&RGW Parlor > Car. > > You will also notice that the very first line in all of the > instruction sheets reads: "THIS IS A BASIC BODY KIT FOR A (Kit > type)". You see, these models came from an era where the > manufacturer expected the modeler to modify the kits. Back then you > chose the kit closest to the prototype car that you wanted, and you > then modified it to whatever car you wished. It was a process > called "modeling", a forgotten concept in this modern day of pre- > made plastic stuff. > > These kits also come from a time when LaBelle was located in > Wisconsin. My records show that the only reference material that > the original owners had was the D&RGW Folio Sheets and drawings and > advice from John W. Maxwell. This is why the LaBelle Combine, > ostensibly the 212, is shorter than the coach. Why? because the > D&RGW never changed their folio sheets when the original 212 was > renumbered to the 214 and the 214 was renumbered 212 and the > renumbered (shorter) combine was sold to Mexico. They did the best > with the information that they had. You can't blame them because > the Railroad's information was wrong. > > Why doesn't LaBelle redo the D&RGW Combine? How about because in > inventory there are over 300 precut sides, floors, roofs and > clerestory strips that I don't want to toss into the Garbage. So > until these cars are all sold, I guess that people who buy my kits > will have to settle for the pre-1940's 212. If you don't like it, > then pay several hundred dollars for a Brass model that comes > close. Better yet, buy one of the coach kits and one of the combine > kits and kitbash them into the more modern long version of the 212. > Oops, once again I am advocating that ancient art of "Modeling". > > The same with the closed vestibule coach. But look at the bright > side, you have a specific car there, as there was only one narrow > window closed vestibule coach, and LaBelle makes it. Again, there > is a legacy from previous owners of many hundreds of pre-made > sides. If I can ever figure out how to widen the windows > economically and consistently, the wide window version might make > an appearance, but realize that the proper window post cutter has > to be made and that's pretty expensive in itself. > > To toss all of this merchandise would not only be a terrible > business decision, it would be wasteful, stupid and an insult to > the craftsmen who made these kits. Yes, I am painfully aware of the > differences in each individual as well as the series of cars, both > freight and passenger. As are you. So why don't YOU make the > changes to suit yourself? > > Changes are in the offing, but many, many dollars of tooling must > be made. Lasers are nice toys and I use laser cut parts in some of > my kits. However, Lasers are not the panacea that they are made out > to be. A laser cannot shape wood to a belt rail or to a window > post. You can engrave, but under a magnifying glass the scribes are > nothing but blobs. It takes a long time to make a "V" groove with a > laser (you can do it, but it is stepped). Milled wood is still > superior in these instances. Since I'm an old-line modeler, I find > that Styrene is a nice medium but molded Plastics don't really turn > me on. > > So why don't I take my designs and go to China like everybody else? > Because I checked my dealer lists going back 20 years. I checked my > customer lists going back 20 years. I've never sold a kit to China, > I have no dealers in China. Why the heck should I send my money > there? Just so I can have the same supply problems as everbody else? > > My kits are still less than $35.00 for HO Passenger, Narrow or > Standard Gauge. For the price of a new Brass HOn3 car you can have > an entire train of LaBelle cars and still have the pride of > building them yourself. > > One of the nice things about LaBelle Kits is that you can get > replacement parts immediately if you mess up and don't have to wait > for the next boat. > > And before you ask, Yes, the wood that we use is grown domestically. > > I use LaBelle as an example because the thread was specifically > about Passenger Cars. I'm sure that many of the other manufacturers > of HOn3 kits feel the same way that I do about their kits. > > I'm proud that my kits are made by the company that sells them and > not by a foreign subcontractor. > > Rick Steele > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4225	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars

Mike, Thank you for posting this. It sure is refreshing to hear of someone that doen't have their stuff manufactured by the same people that seem intent on poisoing our grandchildren to save a couple of yen (or bags of rice or whatever they use over there). John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > As I read this, I realized that the rest of the gang here would like > to read it as well....... > > Best to Ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4226	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars

John Hagen wrote: > Mike, > > Thank you for posting this. It sure is refreshing to hear of someone > that doen't have their stuff manufactured by the same people that > seem intent on poisoing our grandchildren to save a couple of yen (or > bags of rice or whatever they use over there). "Made In USA" seems to have become nearly extinct. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ Santa's Pickup Lines #3 - I see you when you're sleeping... and you don't wear any underwear, do you?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4227	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Soldering

Have you ever used “TIX” flux?  A liquid-so no residue and discoloration.  Seems to do really well.  I have some solder joints in electrical work on the old part of my layout (forty + years ago) and there does not seem to be any deterioration.  I have used it on brass locos, brass track to copper wire, and nickel silver track to copper wire.  But I have never attempted soldering to zamac-that’s when the super glue bottle comes out around here.  And you are so right about keeping the gun/iron  tip clean!!!       Regards,  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A.W. Wallace Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 11:48 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Soldering   Gentlemen: I have found that the best solder flux is one called "Sal-Met". It is a clear jell, and it will enable one to solder all metals. I have soldered Aluminum to Zamac with it, a result not obtainable with other fluxes. Very little is required, as an excess merely turns dark and interferes with the clean metal necessary for a good joint. It can be "cut" with amonia to make an effective flux for brass soldering.      The "secret" of good soldering can be said to be a bright tip, and heat. A bright tip transfers the heat to the parts to be joined. Too many people try to substitute pressure of the soldering iron tip for a bright tip to transfer heat.      Another "secret" is removal of the iron as soon as the solder has melted and flowed along the area being joined. Leaving the iron in place too long may unsolder adjacent parts. However, too swift a removal may result in a "cold" joint, which lacks strength, and eventually will separate. Thus, it is important to see the "flow" of the solder before backing off. Practice on scrap is recommended if you have doubts about when to "back off" from applying heat.      In all cases, use of abrasives to remove dirt from the area to be soldered is advised, before applying flux.      One should remember that a flux acts chemically, (The effect is hastened by the heat), and will contniue to "eat" at the metal even after cooling, of course at a greatly reduced rate. Therefore, removal of excess flux after cooling if advised, by brushing with water.      Silver Soldering requires much higher temperatures and special flux, and when used on brass, will result in a softening of the brass parts. Subsequent handling of softened brass parts must be done carefully to avoid bending damage.      These are things I have learned in 60 years of scratch-building HO steam locmotives.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4228	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars

Thanks for the post!!   I have a bunch of LaBelle cars, both standard and narrow gauge.  They make wonderful models, and the parts FIT like they are supposed to!!  And I have several still in kit form-ready to build when the cold of winter sets in.  Regards,  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:42 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars   As I read this, I realized that the rest of the gang here would like to read it as well....... Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi Begin forwarded message: > From: Steele Family <rntsteele@...> > Date: September 3, 2007 9:25:37 PM CDT > To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars > Reply-To: HOn3@yahoogroups.com > > Glenn Joesten said: > > Without addressing specific brands, there were a series of > refinements over the years. Early kits and imports were often > "generic" as ,"Vestibule Coach", "Open Platform Coach",, > "Combine"---before most of realized that there were differences > between cars. Now we tend to see kits or RTR cars designated as > specific prototypes. One case in point is the narrower windows on > coach 319. gj > > You can also mention that the brand for kits that readily comes to > mind is LaBelle. > > Yup, that's the way they're labeled: D&RGW open platform coach; > D&RGW open platform combine; D&RGW open platform Baggage; D&RGW > open platform short RPO; D&RGW Closed Vestibule Coach; D&RGW Parlor > Car. > > You will also notice that the very first line in all of the > instruction sheets reads: "THIS IS A BASIC BODY KIT FOR A (Kit > type)". You see, these models came from an era where the > manufacturer expected the modeler to modify the kits. Back then you > chose the kit closest to the prototype car that you wanted, and you > then modified it to whatever car you wished. It was a process > called "modeling", a forgotten concept in this modern day of pre- > made plastic stuff. > > These kits also come from a time when LaBelle was located in > Wisconsin. My records show that the only reference material that > the original owners had was the D&RGW Folio Sheets and drawings and > advice from John W. Maxwell. This is why the LaBelle Combine, > ostensibly the 212, is shorter than the coach. Why? because the > D&RGW never changed their folio sheets when the original 212 was > renumbered to the 214 and the 214 was renumbered 212 and the > renumbered (shorter) combine was sold to Mexico. They did the best > with the information that they had. You can't blame them because > the Railroad's information was wrong. > > Why doesn't LaBelle redo the D&RGW Combine? How about because in > inventory there are over 300 precut sides, floors, roofs and > clerestory strips that I don't want to toss into the Garbage. So > until these cars are all sold, I guess that people who buy my kits > will have to settle for the pre-1940's 212. If you don't like it, > then pay several hundred dollars for a Brass model that comes > close. Better yet, buy one of the coach kits and one of the combine > kits and kitbash them into the more modern long version of the 212. > Oops, once again I am advocating that ancient art of "Modeling". > > The same with the closed vestibule coach. But look at the bright > side, you have a specific car there, as there was only one narrow > window closed vestibule coach, and LaBelle makes it. Again, there > is a legacy from previous owners of many hundreds of pre-made > sides. If I can ever figure out how to widen the windows > economically and consistently, the wide window version might make > an appearance, but realize that the proper window post cutter has > to be made and that's pretty expensive in itself. > > To toss all of this merchandise would not only be a terrible > business decision, it would be wasteful, stupid and an insult to > the craftsmen who made these kits. Yes, I am painfully aware of the > differences in each individual as well as the series of cars, both > freight and passenger. As are you. So why don't YOU make the > changes to suit yourself? > > Changes are in the offing, but many, many dollars of tooling must > be made. Lasers are nice toys and I use laser cut parts in some of > my kits. However, Lasers are not the panacea that they are made out > to be. A laser cannot shape wood to a belt rail or to a window > post. You can engrave, but under a magnifying glass the scribes are > nothing but blobs. It takes a long time to make a "V" groove with a > laser (you can do it, but it is stepped). Milled wood is still > superior in these instances. Since I'm an old-line modeler, I find > that Styrene is a nice medium but molded Plastics don't really turn > me on. > > So why don't I take my designs and go to China like everybody else? > Because I checked my dealer lists going back 20 years. I checked my > customer lists going back 20 years. I've never sold a kit to China, > I have no dealers in China. Why the heck should I send my money > there? Just so I can have the same supply problems as everbody else? > > My kits are still less than $35.00 for HO Passenger, Narrow or > Standard Gauge. For the price of a new Brass HOn3 car you can have > an entire train of LaBelle cars and still have the pride of > building them yourself. > > One of the nice things about LaBelle Kits is that you can get > replacement parts immediately if you mess up and don't have to wait > for the next boat. > > And before you ask, Yes, the wood that we use is grown domestically. > > I use LaBelle as an example because the thread was specifically > about Passenger Cars. I'm sure that many of the other manufacturers > of HOn3 kits feel the same way that I do about their kits. > > I'm proud that my kits are made by the company that sells them and > not by a foreign subcontractor. > > Rick Steele > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4229	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Soldering

Well, I accidentally, and very pleasantly, found out that Tix Flux does indeed work on Zamac.  At least it can solder brass to Zamac.  However, to be on the safe side, I drill and tap a hole and solder in a brass threaded rod or screw into the Zamac and solder brass details to that.  However, I solder the threaded brass rod into the Zamac and it will not come out.  I do plan on soldering a brass air pump to the loco boiler and see how well that will work. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jerryg@... Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 14:19:51 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Soldering Have you ever used “TIX” flux?  A liquid-so no residue and discoloration.  Seems to do really well.  I have some solder joints in electrical work on the old part of my layout (forty + years ago) and there does not seem to be any deterioration.  I have used it on brass locos, brass track to copper wire, and nickel silver track to copper wire.  But I have never attempted soldering to zamac-that’s when the super glue bottle comes out around here.  And you are so right about keeping the gun/iron  tip clean!!!       Regards,  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A.W. Wallace Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 11:48 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [vintageHO] Soldering   Gentlemen: I have found that the best solder flux is one called "Sal-Met". It is a clear jell, and it will enable one to solder all metals. I have soldered Aluminum to Zamac with it, a result not obtainable with other fluxes. Very little is required, as an excess merely turns dark and interferes with the clean metal necessary for a good joint. It can be "cut" with amonia to make an effective flux for brass soldering.      The "secret" of good soldering can be said to be a bright tip, and heat. A bright tip transfers the heat to the parts to be joined. Too many people try to substitute pressure of the soldering iron tip for a bright tip to transfer heat.      Another "secret" is removal of the iron as soon as the solder has melted and flowed along the area being joined. Leaving the iron in place too long may unsolder adjacent parts. However, too swift a removal may result in a "cold" joint, which lacks strength, and eventually will separate. Thus, it is important to see the "flow" of the solder before backing off. Practice on scrap is recommended if you have doubts about when to "back off" from applying heat.      In all cases, use of abrasives to remove dirt from the area to be soldered is advised, before applying flux.      One should remember that a flux acts chemically, (The effect is hastened by the heat), and will contniue to "eat" at the metal even after cooling, of course at a greatly reduced rate. Therefore, removal of excess flux after cooling if advised, by brushing with water.      Silver Soldering requires much higher temperatures and special flux, and when used on brass, will result in a softening of the brass parts. Subsequent handling of softened brass parts must be done carefully to avoid bending damage.      These are things I have learned in 60 years of scratch-building HO steam locmotives.      Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4230	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Who Made a Brass T1?

Hi Guys! I just picked-up what I believe to be a brass PRR T1. It will be a week or so before it gets here, but I am 95% sure it is brass.. Anyone know who made one? Thanks! Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4231	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Sean Naylor wrote: >Hi Guys! > >I just picked-up what I believe to be a brass PRR T1. It will be a week >or so before it gets here, but I am 95% sure it is brass.. Anyone know >who made one? > >Thanks! > >Sean > > Gem, ALCO, Sunset, Key. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4232	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Attachments : Hello Gerold,   This one is very old... It is cast brass..   Did Penn Line do a Brass version?   Sean Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4233	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Hi Sean,   Brass versions are:   Tetsudo (Japan) made a version of the T-1 in the early 1950s. Sankyo (Japan) Imported by Gem Models in 1968 Kumata (KMT)(Japan), imported by Alco Models in 1977. Samhongsa (Korea)imported by Key in 1983.   Non Brass versions are:   Penn Line 1948-1964 Bowser 1965-present   btw, did you change your mind about shipping the M-4?   Brian See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4234	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

sean naylor wrote: Hello Gerold,   This one is very old... It is cast brass..   Did Penn Line do a Brass version? Sean, not that I know of - I found three pictures of real old T1´s (one unnamed Japanese,  Tetsudo, Gem)  in Lenahans Lexicon Vol 2 , but none matches your pictures. The skyline casing is quite different, the front end looks odd too - my uneducted guess would be an one off model made in the USA? Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4235	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Hey Brian,   Did you sse the pics I attached earlier of the T1?   No. I did not change my mind.. It is just been hectic lately and I really got burned by the "bodyman" last week. I waited 8 months for him to work on my car and when I decided to pull my parts and go somewhere else, he decided to do a little work, and claim to do 70 hours of work on two front fenders, headlight buckets and rear fender extentions to the toon of $3200. I go the parts back, turns out, all the lines in my fenders have double lines (meaning instead of having one crisp edge at the bend, they are uneven and have a flat edge. (Imagine if you will the edge is supposed to look like a triangle - My edges ( decrative strength lines in my fenders) look like triangles with the tops cut off... )   The headlight buckets all have dirt built up in the corners of the bolt tabs that he did not even bother to remove before painting.   There was supposed to be 1 primer sealer 2-part epoxy-primer and three coats of primer with block sanding in between each.   There is only the 2-part and one coat of primer!   I guess I am just afraid of not seeing my articulated again.. It is not that I do not trust you, but I am just nervous. I just got burned really bad. The way I see it, I paid over $2700 too much for crap work.   I have been trying to box them up this week, but I just keep stopping myself..   It is just tough to send off approx $500 worth of stuff with no real guarantee to see it again. Not that your word is not good.. I do believe it is.. I just got burned is all and I am a little nervous right now..   Yor label has been sitting on my desk all week waiting for the box.  I will get it there, I just need to get this sour taste out of my mouth.   I will return the trailing truck too. I ended up listing the Mantua SP Atlantic this week. I purchased a 69 Mustang Grande near Philly and need to pay for it when I pick it up 2 weeks from now.  I am hoping it does ok for me. The mustang has a 351 W with a stock $BL carb. Going to drop that into my fastback.   Later!   Sean     bslook@... wrote: Hi Sean,   Brass versions are:   Tetsudo (Japan) made a version of the T-1 in the early 1950s. Sankyo (Japan) Imported by Gem Models in 1968 Kumata (KMT)(Japan) , imported by Alco Models in 1977. Samhongsa (Korea)imported by Key in 1983.   Non Brass versions are:   Penn Line 1948-1964 Bowser 1965-present   btw, did you change your mind about shipping the M-4?   Brian See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4236	From: John Barlow	Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

And one other non-brass version...the BLI with sound and fury...   John bslook@... wrote: Hi Sean,   Brass versions are:   Tetsudo (Japan) made a version of the T-1 in the early 1950s. Sankyo (Japan) Imported by Gem Models in 1968 Kumata (KMT)(Japan) , imported by Alco Models in 1977. Samhongsa (Korea)imported by Key in 1983.   Non Brass versions are:   Penn Line 1948-1964 Bowser 1965-present   btw, did you change your mind about shipping the M-4?   Brian See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4237	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

sean naylor wrote: > Hey Brian, > > Did you sse the pics I attached earlier of the T1? > > No. I did not change my mind.. It is just been hectic lately and I > really got burned by the "bodyman" last week. I waited 8 months for > him to work on my car and when I decided to pull my parts and go > somewhere else, he decided to do a little work, and claim to do 70 > hours of work on two front fenders, headlight buckets and rear fender > extentions to the toon of $3200. I go the parts back, turns out, all > the lines in my fenders have double lines (meaning instead of having > one crisp edge at the bend, they are uneven and have a flat edge. > (Imagine if you will the edge is supposed to look like a triangle - My > edges ( decrative strength lines in my fenders) look like triangles > with the tops cut off... ) > > The headlight buckets all have dirt built up in the corners of the > bolt tabs that he did not even bother to remove before painting. > > There was supposed to be 1 primer sealer 2-part epoxy-primer and three > coats of primer with block sanding in between each. > > There is only the 2-part and one coat of primer! > Sean, I understand bodymen are from the same breed all over the world... you should stay in the shop all the time with a whip ready for action. Had similar experiences several times. There are several cars in my garage which need minor work done but I cant find anybody I would trust. I have found that it is a lot better for my nerves to tinker with trains than with old cars. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4238	From: Mary Long	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Hey Sean ! I know what you mean about ''body/fender'' men ! I think that they  that the majority are that way . Must be the chemicals ?  Resto work takes FAR more work/prep , he can turn over a lot more work in the mean time . Was this one a ''rust bucket''? I was born and raised in your neck of the woods so I know of what I speak . If you want the detail[s] like the headlight buckets cleaned up , you're gonna have to do it your own self . To him it's another job , to you VERY IMPORTANT !! BIG diff . ? HH sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hey Brian,   Did you sse the pics I attached earlier of the T1?   No. I did not change my mind.. It is just been hectic lately and I really got burned by the "bodyman" last week. I waited 8 months for him to work on my car and when I decided to pull my parts and go somewhere else, he decided to do a little work, and claim to do 70 hours of work on two front fenders, headlight buckets and rear fender extentions to the toon of $3200. I go the parts back, turns out, all the lines in my fenders have double lines (meaning instead of having one crisp edge at the bend, they are uneven and have a flat edge. (Imagine if you will the edge is supposed to look like a triangle - My edges ( decrative strength lines in my fenders) look like triangles with the tops cut off... )   The headlight buckets all have dirt built up in the corners of the bolt tabs that he did not even bother to remove before painting.   There was supposed to be 1 primer sealer 2-part epoxy-primer and three coats of primer with block sanding in between each.   There is only the 2-part and one coat of primer!   I guess I am just afraid of not seeing my articulated again.. It is not that I do not trust you, but I am just nervous. I just got burned really bad. The way I see it, I paid over $2700 too much for crap work.   I have been trying to box them up this week, but I just keep stopping myself..   It is just tough to send off approx $500 worth of stuff with no real guarantee to see it again. Not that your word is not good.. I do believe it is.. I just got burned is all and I am a little nervous right now..   Yor label has been sitting on my desk all week waiting for the box.  I will get it there, I just need to get this sour taste out of my mouth.   I will return the trailing truck too. I ended up listing the Mantua SP Atlantic this week. I purchased a 69 Mustang Grande near Philly and need to pay for it when I pick it up 2 weeks from now.  I am hoping it does ok for me. The mustang has a 351 W with a stock $BL carb. Going to drop that into my fastback.   Later!   Sean     bslook@... wrote: Hi Sean,   Brass versions are:   Tetsudo (Japan) made a version of the T-1 in the early 1950s. Sankyo (Japan) Imported by Gem Models in 1968 Kumata (KMT)(Japan) , imported by Alco Models in 1977. Samhongsa (Korea)imported by Key in 1983.   Non Brass versions are:   Penn Line 1948-1964 Bowser 1965-present   btw, did you change your mind about shipping the M-4?   Brian See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4239	From: Mary Long	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Hi group ! I know I went off topic on that post , sorry ! Is this T1 a ''cast brass'' ? Most of the ref. matl. I haver is still packed ala. Brown Book . All the posts I've read are spot on ! Let's see what it looks like again ? Hank H. Mary Long <long95209@...> wrote: Hey Sean ! I know what you mean about ''body/fender' ' men ! I think that they  that the majority are that way . Must be the chemicals ?  Resto work takes FAR more work/prep , he can turn over a lot more work in the mean time . Was this one a ''rust bucket''? I was born and raised in your neck of the woods so I know of what I speak . If you want the detail[s] like the headlight buckets cleaned up , you're gonna have to do it your own self . To him it's another job , to you VERY IMPORTANT !! BIG diff . ? HH sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hey Brian,   Did you sse the pics I attached earlier of the T1?   No. I did not change my mind.. It is just been hectic lately and I really got burned by the "bodyman" last week. I waited 8 months for him to work on my car and when I decided to pull my parts and go somewhere else, he decided to do a little work, and claim to do 70 hours of work on two front fenders, headlight buckets and rear fender extentions to the toon of $3200. I go the parts back, turns out, all the lines in my fenders have double lines (meaning instead of having one crisp edge at the bend, they are uneven and have a flat edge. (Imagine if you will the edge is supposed to look like a triangle - My edges ( decrative strength lines in my fenders) look like triangles with the tops cut off... )   The headlight buckets all have dirt built up in the corners of the bolt tabs that he did not even bother to remove before painting.   There was supposed to be 1 primer sealer 2-part epoxy-primer and three coats of primer with block sanding in between each.   There is only the 2-part and one coat of primer!   I guess I am just afraid of not seeing my articulated again.. It is not that I do not trust you, but I am just nervous. I just got burned really bad. The way I see it, I paid over $2700 too much for crap work.   I have been trying to box them up this week, but I just keep stopping myself..   It is just tough to send off approx $500 worth of stuff with no real guarantee to see it again. Not that your word is not good.. I do believe it is.. I just got burned is all and I am a little nervous right now..   Yor label has been sitting on my desk all week waiting for the box.  I will get it there, I just need to get this sour taste out of my mouth.   I will return the trailing truck too. I ended up listing the Mantua SP Atlantic this week. I purchased a 69 Mustang Grande near Philly and need to pay for it when I pick it up 2 weeks from now.  I am hoping it does ok for me. The mustang has a 351 W with a stock $BL carb. Going to drop that into my fastback.   Later!   Sean     bslook@... wrote: Hi Sean,   Brass versions are:   Tetsudo (Japan) made a version of the T-1 in the early 1950s. Sankyo (Japan) Imported by Gem Models in 1968 Kumata (KMT)(Japan) , imported by Alco Models in 1977. Samhongsa (Korea)imported by Key in 1983.   Non Brass versions are:   Penn Line 1948-1964 Bowser 1965-present   btw, did you change your mind about shipping the M-4?   Brian See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4240	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Attachments : Hi hank,   I attached pics again of the T1   I repied to youe previous email concerning the off topic bodyman and even the BBB matter and I will discuss it no further on line my-self.   I really would like to know the origin of the T1 - It has not come yet, but looks to be cast brass or bronze to me and has cruder detail when compared to Bowser ir Penn Line, not to mention a completly different noze.   Sean Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4241	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Hello Hank..   Any ideas as to the origin of the T1?? Which is on topic..   As for the bodyman... I know this is off topic, so I am not going to spend much time on it. As for the parts condition.. They were clean.. as clean as they come. The buckets & extensions are cast alum. and the fenders were hole and dent and virtually ding free.. One was original stock off of a car which need to have the paint stripped and the other was aftermarket, bare metal and had a light layer of surface rust.   He did 6 of the easiest & cleanest pieces of the car - approx 17% of the surface area for the whole car, and charged me $300 for materials and 33% of his $8,500 quote to have the entire car "ready for paint" trying to tell me he had it 1/3 of the way completed.   I took the parts directly to the new shop.. the new guy "Bill" had them in his hands for no more than 5 seconds before he pointed out the double lines at the fender creases, took one look at the two invoices the previous guy gave me and said "Man, you got ripped off! There is no way this gay had 50 hours in your fenders." He turned the fenders over and did not see a single flaw on the underside and said.. "You're right, these are really clean fenders. They did not need any body work!"   I am not going after the guy. I need to put this one behind me. I was not able to sleep at all for three weeks. I finally had a good night of sleep that night.   As for the BBB in the previous reply, They are a member ship agency just like AAA. Members (companies who join to be a member of BBB) pay a fee and therefore can say they are a member of the BBB. I looked into it 18 years ago when i went to work for myself and was told this directly from the BBB agent. They only keep records on the companies that are members. If a company is not a member, they do not keep a file on them. There are way too many companies out there to keep track of that way. Turning them into the BBB therefore would have little to no affect. He is not a "Member". I decided to not join then. The way I saw it.. I had little to gain in paying the fees to be a member when all it meant was there was someone out there that people could file claims of wrong doing against me, for any reason. I relied on my own policing and managed to do quite well and never has a customer complain. Heck, I was booked a 1.5 year in advance for interior work and 1 year for exterior. You do not stay that busy if you do crappy work. I never advertised and it was all word of mouth. Any time I made a mistake, I corrected it immediately and I paid for it. I once had a job where I laid a couple of 4x8 sheets of "Concrete siding" in a lawn after staining them to match the house before they were put up. It was a hot sunny day and he had his lawn fertilized the day before (I found this out after wards). The heat built-u on the siding and burned the tips of the grass. Had it rained or had the lawn been watered the after fertilizing, it would have not burned the tips. For two weeks, he had 4x8 squares in his yard. He knew it was not a big deal and was not worried about it, but I still offered and gave him $500 off of the job for the trouble. Two weeks later, the grass grew, the lawn was cut and the squares went away.   Heck that is the only major mistake I could think of in the 15 years I worked for myself.. Had i known that about fretilizer, I would not have made it.. I was not a landscaper, so why would I?   Sean     Mary Long <long95209@...> wrote: Hey Sean ! I know what you mean about ''body/fender' ' men ! I think that they  that the majority are that way . Must be the chemicals ?  Resto work takes FAR more work/prep , he can turn over a lot more work in the mean time . Was this one a ''rust bucket''? I was born and raised in your neck of the woods so I know of what I speak . If you want the detail[s] like the headlight buckets cleaned up , you're gonna have to do it your own self . To him it's another job , to you VERY IMPORTANT !! BIG diff . ? HH sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hey Brian,   Did you sse the pics I attached earlier of the T1?   No. I did not change my mind.. It is just been hectic lately and I really got burned by the "bodyman" last week. I waited 8 months for him to work on my car and when I decided to pull my parts and go somewhere else, he decided to do a little work, and claim to do 70 hours of work on two front fenders, headlight buckets and rear fender extentions to the toon of $3200. I go the parts back, turns out, all the lines in my fenders have double lines (meaning instead of having one crisp edge at the bend, they are uneven and have a flat edge. (Imagine if you will the edge is supposed to look like a triangle - My edges ( decrative strength lines in my fenders) look like triangles with the tops cut off... )   The headlight buckets all have dirt built up in the corners of the bolt tabs that he did not even bother to remove before painting.   There was supposed to be 1 primer sealer 2-part epoxy-primer and three coats of primer with block sanding in between each.   There is only the 2-part and one coat of primer!   I guess I am just afraid of not seeing my articulated again.. It is not that I do not trust you, but I am just nervous. I just got burned really bad. The way I see it, I paid over $2700 too much for crap work.   I have been trying to box them up this week, but I just keep stopping myself..   It is just tough to send off approx $500 worth of stuff with no real guarantee to see it again. Not that your word is not good.. I do believe it is.. I just got burned is all and I am a little nervous right now..   Yor label has been sitting on my desk all week waiting for the box.  I will get it there, I just need to get this sour taste out of my mouth.   I will return the trailing truck too. I ended up listing the Mantua SP Atlantic this week. I purchased a 69 Mustang Grande near Philly and need to pay for it when I pick it up 2 weeks from now.  I am hoping it does ok for me. The mustang has a 351 W with a stock $BL carb. Going to drop that into my fastback.   Later!   Sean     bslook@... wrote: Hi Sean,   Brass versions are:   Tetsudo (Japan) made a version of the T-1 in the early 1950s. Sankyo (Japan) Imported by Gem Models in 1968 Kumata (KMT)(Japan) , imported by Alco Models in 1977. Samhongsa (Korea)imported by Key in 1983.   Non Brass versions are:   Penn Line 1948-1964 Bowser 1965-present   btw, did you change your mind about shipping the M-4?   Brian See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4242	From: Mary Long	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Boy oh boy !  You've got THAT right !  Considering when the prototype was being tested and run , my guess for this one would've been early 50's [?] . When did PennLine bring his out ?The lead time was lots longer then , sometimes years . Yes, there were a lot of runs in Brass imports , you'll know more when you get a look at the running gear , chassis , etc. As I remember the ''real ones'' were gone before the models came out ? I'll dig into my refs. as soon as I can , but that chisel-point nose is off by a mile !  More later bud , Hank H. sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hi hank,   I attached pics again of the T1   I repied to youe previous email concerning the off topic bodyman and even the BBB matter and I will discuss it no further on line my-self.   I really would like to know the origin of the T1 - It has not come yet, but looks to be cast brass or bronze to me and has cruder detail when compared to Bowser ir Penn Line, not to mention a completly different noze.   Sean Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4243	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Attachments : sean naylor wrote: Hi hank,   I attached pics again of the T1   I repied to youe previous email concerning the off topic bodyman and even the BBB matter and I will discuss it no further on line my-self.   I really would like to know the origin of the T1 - It has not come yet, but looks to be cast brass or bronze to me and has cruder detail when compared to Bowser ir Penn Line, not to mention a completly different noze.   Sean Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. I'll make a stab at this. It is not a Bowser unit - the streemlining is wrong. Looking at Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon it might be from an unknown importer and builkt by Tetsudo some time in the 1950's.  This is the only model the matches the shroduding style on road numbers 6110 and 6111. Howard Garner Pickens, SC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4244	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Attachments : Hello Howard,   Would you happent to be able to scan an image of the T1 from the book?   Thanks for the input!   Sean Howard R Garner <cascaderail@...> wrote: sean naylor wrote: Hi hank,   I attached pics again of the T1   I repied to youe previous email concerning the off topic bodyman and even the BBB matter and I will discuss it no further on line my-self.   I really would like to know the origin of the T1 - It has not come yet, but looks to be cast brass or bronze to me and has cruder detail when compared to Bowser ir Penn Line, not to mention a completly different noze.   Sean Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. I'll make a stab at this. It is not a Bowser unit - the streemlining is wrong. Looking at Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon it might be from an unknown importer and builkt by Tetsudo some time in the 1950's.  This is the only model the matches the shroduding style on road numbers 6110 and 6111. Howard Garner Pickens, SC Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4245	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Attachments : sean naylor wrote: Hello Howard,   Would you happent to be able to scan an image of the T1 from the book?   Thanks for the input!   Sean    Attached is the section of the paqge from Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon Howard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4246	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/10/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> wrote: > I understand bodymen are from the same breed all over the world... you > should stay in the shop all the time with a whip ready for action. Had > similar experiences several times. There are several cars in my garage > which need minor work done but I cant find anybody I would trust. > I have found that it is a lot better for my nerves to tinker with trains > than with old cars. I've never actually had any auto body work done, ever, that I can think of. My parents set a trend that I have followed myself, although I never really planned to. Both my parents were involved in fender-benders here or there (not their fault) and they always took the insurance check and used the money for something else, if it wasn't preventing the car from being driven. My first car came with damage from five different accidents, and I never did a thing about any of them. Fortunately I have not been in many accidents. A few years back, I wiped the drivers door of my Bronco on a pole while backing out of a tight driveway. I got an estimate of $1600, said thank you, and that was the last of it. Now I have an old car in my garage which considering its age - 44 years - it's in spectacular condition. No wreck damage, and absolutely no rust other than surface. All the trim is there. But it needs some very minor straightening and prep, and a paint job. I cringe at the thought of dealing with a body shop, but cringe even more at the thought of trying to do it myself. I really have just put that part of the project on the back burner. The car needs a motor, and I'd MUCH rather do that, so that buys me another year before I have to even think about the body. To put this more on topic... I have an old LMB brass Niagara that I picked up last year. I stripped it and disassembled it and I have painted the tender and superstructure, but then I decided I wanted to replace the open frame motor before going any further. It got shoved off the bench by my clinic passenger car project and it has been on the shelf ever since. But it's one of those cases where for the same money and a little work, I can have a pretty decent brass Niagara to compliment my BLI plastic ones. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4247	From: lvtrainmeet	Date: 9/10/2007
Subject: Nice train meet this weekend

Hello Just wanted to let everyone know there is a nice train meet coming this weekend in Allentown Pa. Its held at Merchants Square Mall at 1901 S 12th St Allentown Pa. www.lehighvalleytrainmeet.com This is a 2 day show with saturday dedicated to HO,N Brass and scale items,Then Sunday it is dedicated to O,S Standard and large scale items. There is over 10,000 square feet of Model and toy trains plus railroadania Repair parts and more. The show is Sept 15th and 16th I have attached the website link for info and directions. I would definetly recomend attending , Hope to see you there. Kevin, Northampton Pa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4248	From: Nick	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Nice train meet this weekend

There is also a swap meet this weekend at the Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris, CA from 9:00AM to 2:00PM. You have the usual stuff - new, used, vintage - in just about all scales plus railroad collectibles. If anybody is interested in traction, they will be running trolleys after the swap meet. They will also be running their steam locomotive. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lvtrainmeet" <lvtrainmeet@...> wrote: > > Hello Just wanted to let everyone know there is a nice train meet > coming > this weekend in Allentown Pa. Its held at Merchants Square Mall > at 1901 S 12th St Allentown Pa. www.lehighvalleytrainmeet.com This is > a 2 day show with saturday dedicated to HO,N Brass and scale > items,Then Sunday it is dedicated to O,S Standard and large scale > items. There is over 10,000 square feet of Model and toy trains plus > railroadania Repair parts and more. The show is Sept 15th and 16th I > have attached the website link for info and directions. I would > definetly recomend attending , Hope to see you there. > Kevin, Northampton Pa >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4249	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Vintage Power Packs

I just bought this relic on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300090566602 Probably paid too much for it but... it has some nostalgia value for me. I could never remember the brand name of the thing. Had one when I was a kid that probably died way more than 40 years ago. This one is missing the cylindrical knob for the slider throttle. I remember running my Athearn Hustler with this thing. Our "big" powerpack was a Marn-O-Power, which was and still is a very nice machine. Mine died in the 70s but I recently bought a near mint one (with original box!) and it works great. Once the old gray Primerpack died, we got an MRC Ampack... it seemed like it would overload at the slightest provocation. Open frame motors could draw a lot of juice. The Marn would run about anything. There are a lot of vintage, junky powerpacks out there - most of them very underpowered. The Marnold stuff was King Kong in those days - were there any other brands that were any good? Looking around ebay, I see a lot of the tiny Tyco, Mantua, Varney, etc. trainset type packs. Ever have one that would put out a really bad - almost b.o. like smell when it overheated? We had one Lionel cheapie transformer that was like that but I seem to remember a cheap DC pack that did the same thing. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4250	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

Andy-as I recall, Scintilla was the next best pack to a Marnold unit.  Marnold was the Caddilac.  I still have an old Marn-O-Stat that works as smooth as ever.  I do not recall exactly when MRC came into the picture, but I have an old Throttlepack that must be 35 years old; it is my “workbench power” supply to this day.   Yes, there were a ton of “trainset” packs out there that probably did not cost a dollar to manufacture-were not good for more than a half amp output.   JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greendoddz Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 2:49 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage Power Packs   I just bought this relic on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300090566602 Probably paid too much for it but... it has some nostalgia value for me. I could never remember the brand name of the thing. Had one when I was a kid that probably died way more than 40 years ago. This one is missing the cylindrical knob for the slider throttle. I remember running my Athearn Hustler with this thing. Our "big" powerpack was a Marn-O-Power, which was and still is a very nice machine. Mine died in the 70s but I recently bought a near mint one (with original box!) and it works great. Once the old gray Primerpack died, we got an MRC Ampack... it seemed like it would overload at the slightest provocation. Open frame motors could draw a lot of juice. The Marn would run about anything. There are a lot of vintage, junky powerpacks out there - most of them very underpowered. The Marnold stuff was King Kong in those days - were there any other brands that were any good? Looking around ebay, I see a lot of the tiny Tyco, Mantua, Varney, etc. trainset type packs. Ever have one that would put out a really bad - almost b.o. like smell when it overheated? We had one Lionel cheapie transformer that was like that but I seem to remember a cheap DC pack that did the same thing. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4251	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Stroke

HiGuys:  I had a Stroke  on September  11 , 19999                        Ray L Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4252	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

Vintage power packs- While not quite vintage, I am using a CMI 'SuperBlue' with walkaround throttle. Probably hasn't been made in at least a decade I'm guessing. Box definatly looked old. Don't think CMI is around anymore either. TONS of power for old trains. I've run a lashup of four Cary lead diesel F units with old Athearn motors, and two Varney steam locos at the same time, and it didn't even get warm. No noticable drop in speed on anything either! I also have a Lionel #1034 75 Watt AC current transformer handling city lights and switch machines. This is some serious HO power. I do see the old tyco power packs on eBay a lot. They are obviously junk it seems. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > I just bought this relic on ebay: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300090566602 > > Probably paid too much for it but... it has some nostalgia value for > me. I could never remember the brand name of the thing. Had one when > I was a kid that probably died way more than 40 years ago. This one > is missing the cylindrical knob for the slider throttle. I remember > running my Athearn Hustler with this thing. > > Our "big" powerpack was a Marn-O-Power, which was and still is a very > nice machine. Mine died in the 70s but I recently bought a near mint > one (with original box!) and it works great. > > Once the old gray Primerpack died, we got an MRC Ampack... it seemed > like it would overload at the slightest provocation. Open frame > motors could draw a lot of juice. The Marn would run about anything. > > There are a lot of vintage, junky powerpacks out there - most of them > very underpowered. The Marnold stuff was King Kong in those days - > were there any other brands that were any good? Looking around ebay, > I see a lot of the tiny Tyco, Mantua, Varney, etc. trainset type packs. > > Ever have one that would put out a really bad - almost b.o. like smell > when it overheated? We had one Lionel cheapie transformer that was > like that but I seem to remember a cheap DC pack that did the same thing. > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4253	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

My layout runs on an old MRC "Dual Loco Pack". I had a "Golden Throttle Pack" for the yard but it finally let out the "magic smoke" about a month ago, so I dug out an old home-made transistor throttle from the first MR "Thorne book", and remarkably it still works, although right now it's clip-leaded into the layout. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Power Packs > Vintage power packs- While not quite vintage, I am using a CMI > 'SuperBlue' with walkaround throttle. Probably hasn't been made in at > least a decade I'm guessing. Box definatly looked old. Don't think CMI > is around anymore either. TONS of power for old trains. I've run a > lashup of four Cary lead diesel F units with old Athearn motors, and > two Varney steam locos at the same time, and it didn't even get warm. > No noticable drop in speed on anything either! > > I also have a Lionel #1034 75 Watt AC current transformer handling > city lights and switch machines. This is some serious HO power. > > I do see the old tyco power packs on eBay a lot. They are obviously > junk it seems. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: >> >> I just bought this relic on ebay: >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300090566602 >> >> Probably paid too much for it but... it has some nostalgia value for >> me. I could never remember the brand name of the thing. Had one when >> I was a kid that probably died way more than 40 years ago. This one >> is missing the cylindrical knob for the slider throttle. I remember >> running my Athearn Hustler with this thing. >> >> Our "big" powerpack was a Marn-O-Power, which was and still is a very >> nice machine. Mine died in the 70s but I recently bought a near mint >> one (with original box!) and it works great. >> >> Once the old gray Primerpack died, we got an MRC Ampack... it seemed >> like it would overload at the slightest provocation. Open frame >> motors could draw a lot of juice. The Marn would run about anything. >> >> There are a lot of vintage, junky powerpacks out there - most of them >> very underpowered. The Marnold stuff was King Kong in those days - >> were there any other brands that were any good? Looking around ebay, >> I see a lot of the tiny Tyco, Mantua, Varney, etc. trainset type packs. >> >> Ever have one that would put out a really bad - almost b.o. like smell >> when it overheated? We had one Lionel cheapie transformer that was >> like that but I seem to remember a cheap DC pack that did the same > thing. >> >> Andy >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4254	From: curmudgeon	Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

My railroad runs on batteries. However, for the smaller stuff, I have an ancient Throttlepack that was given to me oh, 15+ years ago, blown up by the former owner who had owned it for years and tried running a 2-rail "0" layout and a Big Boy with it. Drilled out the rivets, replaced the bridge rectumfrier, and it's worked just fine. Gators on the ends sos I can put it to anything I want. Dave > > My layout runs on an old MRC "Dual Loco Pack". I had a "Golden Throttle > Pack" for the yard but it finally let out the "magic smoke" about a month > ago, so I dug out an old home-made transistor throttle from the first MR > "Thorne book", and remarkably it still works, although right now it's > clip-leaded into the layout. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:53 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Power Packs > > > > Vintage power packs- While not quite vintage, I am using a CMI > > 'SuperBlue' with walkaround throttle. Probably hasn't been made in at > > least a decade I'm guessing. Box definatly looked old. Don't think CMI > > is around anymore either. TONS of power for old trains. I've run a > > lashup of four Cary lead diesel F units with old Athearn motors, and > > two Varney steam locos at the same time, and it didn't even get warm. > > No noticable drop in speed on anything either! > > > > I also have a Lionel #1034 75 Watt AC current transformer handling > > city lights and switch machines. This is some serious HO power. > > > > I do see the old tyco power packs on eBay a lot. They are obviously > > junk it seems. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@> wrote: > >> > >> I just bought this relic on ebay: > >> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&rd=1&item=300090566602 > >> > >> Probably paid too much for it but... it has some nostalgia value for > >> me. I could never remember the brand name of the thing. Had one when > >> I was a kid that probably died way more than 40 years ago. This one > >> is missing the cylindrical knob for the slider throttle. I remember > >> running my Athearn Hustler with this thing. > >> > >> Our "big" powerpack was a Marn-O-Power, which was and still is a very > >> nice machine. Mine died in the 70s but I recently bought a near mint > >> one (with original box!) and it works great. > >> > >> Once the old gray Primerpack died, we got an MRC Ampack... it seemed > >> like it would overload at the slightest provocation. Open frame > >> motors could draw a lot of juice. The Marn would run about anything. > >> > >> There are a lot of vintage, junky powerpacks out there - most of them > >> very underpowered. The Marnold stuff was King Kong in those days - > >> were there any other brands that were any good? Looking around ebay, > >> I see a lot of the tiny Tyco, Mantua, Varney, etc. trainset type packs. > >> > >> Ever have one that would put out a really bad - almost b.o. like smell > >> when it overheated? We had one Lionel cheapie transformer that was > >> like that but I seem to remember a cheap DC pack that did the same > > thing. > >> > >> Andy > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4255	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

Not to digress, but what the heck, I built a "homemade" transistor throttle from an article in the MRR in early 1972.  That used three cascaded transistors and would make ANY loco crawl if needed.  It was an excellent throttle that even outperformed the later throttles I made from IC regulators. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:55:09 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Power Packs My layout runs on an old MRC "Dual Loco Pack". I had a "Golden Throttle Pack" for the yard but it finally let out the "magic smoke" about a month ago, so I dug out an old home-made transistor throttle from the first MR "Thorne book", and remarkably it still works, although right now it's clip-leaded into the layout. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebui ld@yahoo. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Power Packs > Vintage power packs- While not quite vintage, I am using a CMI > 'SuperBlue' with walkaround throttle. Probably hasn't been made in at > least a decade I'm guessing. Box definatly looked old. Don't think CMI > is around anymore either. TONS of power for old trains. I've run a > lashup of four Cary lead diesel F units with old Athearn motors, and > two Varney steam locos at the same time, and it didn't even get warm. > No noticable drop in speed on anything either! > > I also have a Lionel #1034 75 Watt AC current transformer handling > city lights and switch machines. This is some serious HO power. > > I do see the old tyco power packs on eBay a lot. They are obviously > junk it seems. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@ ...> wrote: >> >> I just bought this relic on ebay: >> >> http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& rd=1&item= 300090566602 >> >> Probably paid too much for it but... it has some nostalgia value for >> me. I could never remember the brand name of the thing. Had one when >> I was a kid that probably died way more than 40 years ago. This one >> is missing the cylindrical knob for the slider throttle. I remember >> running my Athearn Hustler with this thing. >> >> Our "big" powerpack was a Marn-O-Power, which was and still is a very >> nice machine. Mine died in the 70s but I recently bought a near mint >> one (with original box!) and it works great. >> >> Once the old gray Primerpack died, we got an MRC Ampack... it seemed >> like it would overload at the slightest provocation. Open frame >> motors could draw a lot of juice. The Marn would run about anything. >> >> There are a lot of vintage, junky powerpacks out there - most of them >> very underpowered. The Marnold stuff was King Kong in those days - >> were there any other brands that were any good? Looking around ebay, >> I see a lot of the tiny Tyco, Mantua, Varney, etc. trainset type packs. >> >> Ever have one that would put out a really bad - almost b.o. like smell >> when it overheated? We had one Lionel cheapie transformer that was >> like that but I seem to remember a cheap DC pack that did the same > thing. >> >> Andy >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Gear up for Halo® 3 and get a $25 Best Buy gift card. It’s our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live™. Get it now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4256	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Vintage power packs- While not quite vintage, I am using a CMI > 'SuperBlue' with walkaround throttle. Probably hasn't been made in at > least a decade I'm guessing. Box definatly looked old. Don't think CMI > is around anymore either. TONS of power for old trains. As near as I have been able to tell, CMI (Chicago Model Inc. is what it stands for IIRC) is the fourth incarnation of what started out as the Troller Co. I first saw a Troller pack in the early-mid 1970s. It was in a local hobby shop and had a brushed, bare aluminum case and it was probably the first production "transistor throttle" I ever saw. It struck me as being physically very shoddy - the knobs scraped on the aluminum case when you turned them and just touching the rough case was like fingernails on a blackboard. By the late 1970s, Troller was producing the familiar black-finish power packs. They had singles and doubles, the double I think was the 8000 with two complete packs in one unit - separate transformers so you could jump them for common rail. I played with one of these at the LHS and fell in love with it and bought it. I still think it's the best conventional power pack I ever owned. Unfortunately, quality control was never the strong suit of this company. My Troller eventually had one side stick at wide-open throttle. They were still in business at the time, and they either repaired or replaced the entire unit under warranty. I used it for a couple more years and it died again (both side), by that time the Troller name was extinct. I also had a pair of Troller hand cabs - you could hook them up to AC transformers and they were nice, compact units. I used them on a show switching layout I built - two of them. I loved the feel and response of them but they would heat up in your hand to the point of discomfort. They both died after a total of maybe 30 hours of operation each, spread out over several years worth of annual shows. Troller then seemed to re-emerge as Tri-Tec. They made something called a Hogger which was a HUGE power pack, rated at 8 amps I think. The local module club ended up with three of them ultimately. They were great packs but once Tri-Tec changed its name again, they were kept going by electronics guys in the club - I think they may still be running when the club is on DC, they now have gone partly DCC. But the guts are no longer original. Tri-Tec became Starr-Tec. Then Starr-Tec became CMI. There is a common look and feel to all the products, and the common element of really outstanding performance, and extremely poor reliability. I have no idea why their products failed with such regularity - I'm not enough of an electronics person to even speculate, nor do I know if the failures followed any common thread. The company would usually honor warranties, but who wants a product that unreliable? I don't know if they honored the warranty from their previous incarnations. I just became fed up and bought a couple of MRC TrainPower 5 units and they were the last conventional DC packs I bought. The TP5 was discontinued a long time ago. The current practice of rating a power pack in volt-amps disguises the lack of raw amperage. I can't really compare a current MRC product to the solid rated 2.5 amps of the old Throttlepack. I think I still have my 1972 Throttlepack, aka Rustpack. MRC wisely went to plastic cases - I think their Throttlepack and Ampack cases were made of the same stuff as those high-carbon steel knives that begin rusting when you take them out of the package, unless you live in Phoenix. Since my main stuff is now DCC, my interest in DC packs is mainly confined to vintage stuff. It will be interesting to see how much juice the Scintilla Primerpack can put out. I really don't know what did in our old one. I have some very young memories of actually running trains with it, but mostly I remember the disembowled case and tansformer kicking around the basement junkpile. The Marn-O-Power still gets my vote as the most elegant vintage pack. It apparently was discontinued some time in the 60s - Walthers continued to offer the Marnold components into the 70s I think, but the self-contained power pack was no longer available. The Marn was fun to operate and it had guts to burn. The HO guys equivalent to the legendary Lionel ZW. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4257	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

I also built several of the various throttles that were described in Model Railroader articles in the 1970s. One of them can be seen at <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/throttle.html>. I addition, I built various sound generators and a "welding simulator", all from similar articles. <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/soundgenerators.html> It was a lot of fun, and the results were surprisingly good. I miss the challenge of building those various electronics projects - everything is now "ready to run", and I think that takes away from the experience somewhat. Just my opinion - I guess others don't feel that way, as "instant gratification" seems to be more the rule than the exception these days. Mike Victor Bitleris wrote: > > > Not to digress, but what the heck, I built a "homemade" transistor > throttle from an article in the MRR in early 1972. That used three > cascaded transistors and would make ANY loco crawl if needed. It was an > excellent throttle that even outperformed the later throttles I made > from IC regulators. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4258	From: Charles Kinzer	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

I built a TAT-IV ("True Action Throttle") from scratch from Linn Westcott's MR article in the late 60's.  It was part of my early self-education in electronics, I suppose.   I would pedal my bike to Allied Radio on Western Avenue in Chicago to get parts.  The place was glorious in those days.  I used a germanium power transistor (not a lot of inexpensive choices in those days) and it experienced thermal runaway even with my homemade bent pieces of aluminum sheet heatsink.  The throttle worked fine, however, if I held a wet paper towel against the big round surface of the top of the transistor to help cool it!   Chuck Kinzer Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: I also built several of the various throttles that were described in Model Railroader articles in the 1970s. One of them can be seen at . I addition, I built various sound generators and a "welding simulator", all from similar articles. It was a lot of fun, and the results were surprisingly good. I miss the challenge of building those various electronics projects - everything is now "ready to run", and I think that takes away from the experience somewhat. Just my opinion - I guess others don't feel that way, as "instant gratification" seems to be more the rule than the exception these days. Mike Victor Bitleris wrote: > > > Not to digress, but what the heck, I built a "homemade" transistor > throttle from an article in the MRR in early 1972. That used three > cascaded transistors and would make ANY loco crawl if needed. It was an > excellent throttle that even outperformed the later throttles I made > from IC regulators. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4259	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > It was a lot of fun, and the results were surprisingly good. I miss the > challenge of building those various electronics projects - everything is > now "ready to run", and I think that takes away from the experience > somewhat. Just my opinion - I guess others don't feel that way, as > "instant gratification" seems to be more the rule than the exception > these days. I am a model builder and DIY guy in a lot of things, but not everything. I'm strictly an RTR guy when it comes to electronics. I remember how much I coveted those roll-your-own TAT throttles back in the 1970s, but I could no more build one than I could fly to the moon. I've been a programmer for 34 years, and I can troubleshoot electronics on a large scale level - as in, my programming and user experience knew when it was a power supply, motherboard, disk controller, or drive that was broken... but aside from some vague idea that the traces on a circuit board represent a "program" of sorts, I just don't get along with electronics. I would have paid to have someone build me a TAT-IV back then, but it would have been more than I could afford and I doubt anyone would have done it. Plus, owning such a beast meant being able to troubleshoot it. I once owned a motorcycle... a brand new one. After one year, it became obvious that one who doesn't like to work on motorcycles shouldn't own one... period. So I got rid of it. Fortunately the electronic throttles eventually caught on, although I don't think there was ever a commercial one based on the TAT-IV. Even so, a broken Troller pack was just an expensive and underweight doorstop to me. When it comes to electronics, there are only two kinds of things: ones that work, and ones that don't. I have no use for, nor any inate desire to deal with the latter. I'll do basic electrical wiring - doing some right now actually for my future train room. I will tackle almost any motor work on a vintage car - as in, one with a carburetor and nothing more "tronic" than the distributor and "box" and even there, I am clueless to troubleshoot if it doesn't work. Mechanical things don't bother me, and model building is essentially mechanical. And oddly enough, the totally abstract realm of computer programming is right at home for me, although I doubt if I could learn it from scratch at my age. When I did, at age 17, it just clicked - and electronics never did. As you guys may have guessed, most of my HO stuff is close to state of the art, I use DCC, I model the 1970s - but I recently rediscovered my passion for the vintage HO stuff. I didn't have Lionel as a kid, I grew up on Mantua, old Athearn, Varney, Tyco, etc. I do have a plan to build a true vintage HO style layout - probably no bigger than 4x6 - which I will use as a Christmas tree layout, one of my earliest and fondest memories. But I'll power that with my Marnopower... and maybe the Scintilla if it arrives in working condition. So I neatly skipped over the age of DIY electronics... either vintage straight DC, or present day, manufactured-component DCC. I'm the same way with cars. My daily driver is a 2003 ZX2 (Mazda drive train). I finally figured out how to change the oil (the filter is well hidden) but other than that, it's a turnkey car. I won't touch it or take a wrench to it. Ditto my 96 Bronco. But I have a couple other cars which are closer to my Marnopower in vintage, and I do a lot of the work on them myself - stopping short of body/paint or heavy chassis work. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4260	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

Chuck-I still have one of these things and it is operational.  I had to replace the large capacitor about 15 years ago, but the rest is all original.  I like to hook it up and watch the engines “coast” to a stop, and play the brake switch on it.  Great technology for forty + years ago!!   JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kinzer Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 12:06 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Power Packs   I built a TAT-IV ("True Action Throttle") from scratch from Linn Westcott's MR article in the late 60's.  It was part of my early self-education in electronics, I suppose.   I would pedal my bike to Allied Radio on Western Avenue in Chicago to get parts.  The place was glorious in those days.  I used a germanium power transistor (not a lot of inexpensive choices in those days) and it experienced thermal runaway even with my homemade bent pieces of aluminum sheet heatsink.  The throttle worked fine, however, if I held a wet paper towel against the big round surface of the top of the transistor to help cool it!   Chuck Kinzer Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: I also built several of the various throttles that were described in Model Railroader articles in the 1970s. One of them can be seen at . I addition, I built various sound generators and a "welding simulator", all from similar articles. It was a lot of fun, and the results were surprisingly good. I miss the challenge of building those various electronics projects - everything is now "ready to run", and I think that takes away from the experience somewhat. Just my opinion - I guess others don't feel that way, as "instant gratification" seems to be more the rule than the exception these days. Mike Victor Bitleris wrote: > > > Not to digress, but what the heck, I built a "homemade" transistor > throttle from an article in the MRR in early 1972. That used three > cascaded transistors and would make ANY loco crawl if needed. It was an > excellent throttle that even outperformed the later throttles I made > from IC regulators. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4261	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

I have a box downstairs of TWELVE 2N3055's that I bought on eBay a few months back just to build some throttles. Now I just need to track down the smaller ones (2N2222 and 2N3053 stick in my mind) and get off my butt and start soldering. To change the subject, bought a box of junk from a friend, he had some Athearn drives that he thought were salvagable, (they were, I've two out three running), and he said he'd toss in some other stuff he thought I could use. Well, a Hobbytown F chassis, the original one with the monster (DC-91?) motor, runs but haltingly, I'm working on it, and a Varney F-3 shell, this one diecast! (with no lead rot!), Yeah, I can use em!!!! (Picked up another F-3 plastic dummy A off eBay that's in paint right now, going on one othe above mentioned Athearn drives), Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Power Packs >I also built several of the various throttles that were described in > Model Railroader articles in the 1970s. One of them can be seen at > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/throttle.html>. I > addition, I built various sound generators and a "welding simulator", > all from similar articles. > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/soundgenerators.html> > It was a lot of fun, and the results were surprisingly good. I miss the > challenge of building those various electronics projects - everything is > now "ready to run", and I think that takes away from the experience > somewhat. Just my opinion - I guess others don't feel that way, as > "instant gratification" seems to be more the rule than the exception > these days. > > Mike > > Victor Bitleris wrote: >> >> >> Not to digress, but what the heck, I built a "homemade" transistor >> throttle from an article in the MRR in early 1972. That used three >> cascaded transistors and would make ANY loco crawl if needed. It was an >> excellent throttle that even outperformed the later throttles I made >> from IC regulators. >> >> Vic Bitleris >> Raleigh, NC >> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4262	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

>----- Original Message ----- >From: Charles Kinzer >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:06 AM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Power Packs >I built a TAT-IV ("True Action Throttle") from scratch from Linn Westcott's >MR article in the late 60's. It was part of my early self-education in >electronics, I >suppose. >I would pedal my bike to Allied Radio on Western Avenue in Chicago to get >parts. The place was glorious in those days. I used a germanium power >transistor >>(not a lot of inexpensive choices in those days) and it >experienced thermal runaway even with my homemade bent pieces of aluminum >sheet heatsink. The throttle >worked fine, however, if I held a wet paper >towel against the big round surface of the top of the transistor to help >cool it! >Chuck Kinzer I miss the old Allied stores. In fact, I was actually working for them in one of their Milwaukee stores (Brookfield Square) at the time Jim Lansing sold the company to Rat Shack! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4263	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

Charles Kinzer wrote: > I built a TAT-IV ("True Action Throttle") from scratch from Linn > Westcott's MR article in the late 60's. It was part of my early > self-education in electronics, I suppose. I keep hoping that one or more of the DCC throttle manufacturers will give us a throttle with capabilities similar to the TAT-IV. The programmable momentum effects in DCC decoders just aren't the same as having to judiciously work a Brake handle to bring a train to a stop at just the right spot, without overshooting or coming up short. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4264	From: curmudgeon	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

Ah, a post that requires an answer....and probably a slap on the back o' me head by Don...... I do all sorts of electronics, but dcc is not for me. I like things that work and are not complicated. I use radio/battery in my big railroad, dynamite stuff, never breaks. I have re-kindled the vintage H0 interest last year, have restored, rebuilt, tuned, purchased all sorts of die-cast stuff. Vintage vehicles......I drive Flathead Fords daily, love them. One I've owned for 38 years. And, on those old electronic throttles......I could build them,just couldn't afford the bits back then. Dave > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@> wrote: > > It was a lot of fun, and the results were surprisingly good. I miss the > > challenge of building those various electronics projects - > everything is > > now "ready to run", and I think that takes away from the experience > > somewhat. Just my opinion - I guess others don't feel that way, as > > "instant gratification" seems to be more the rule than the exception > > these days. > > I am a model builder and DIY guy in a lot of things, but not > everything. I'm strictly an RTR guy when it comes to electronics. I > remember how much I coveted those roll-your-own TAT throttles back in > the 1970s, but I could no more build one than I could fly to the moon. > I've been a programmer for 34 years, and I can troubleshoot > electronics on a large scale level - as in, my programming and user > experience knew when it was a power supply, motherboard, disk > controller, or drive that was broken... but aside from some vague idea > that the traces on a circuit board represent a "program" of sorts, I > just don't get along with electronics. > > I would have paid to have someone build me a TAT-IV back then, but it > would have been more than I could afford and I doubt anyone would have > done it. Plus, owning such a beast meant being able to troubleshoot > it. I once owned a motorcycle... a brand new one. After one year, it > became obvious that one who doesn't like to work on motorcycles > shouldn't own one... period. So I got rid of it. > > Fortunately the electronic throttles eventually caught on, although I > don't think there was ever a commercial one based on the TAT-IV. Even > so, a broken Troller pack was just an expensive and underweight > doorstop to me. When it comes to electronics, there are only two > kinds of things: ones that work, and ones that don't. I have no use > for, nor any inate desire to deal with the latter. > > I'll do basic electrical wiring - doing some right now actually for my > future train room. I will tackle almost any motor work on a vintage > car - as in, one with a carburetor and nothing more "tronic" than the > distributor and "box" and even there, I am clueless to troubleshoot if > it doesn't work. Mechanical things don't bother me, and model > building is essentially mechanical. And oddly enough, the totally > abstract realm of computer programming is right at home for me, > although I doubt if I could learn it from scratch at my age. When I > did, at age 17, it just clicked - and electronics never did. > > As you guys may have guessed, most of my HO stuff is close to state of > the art, I use DCC, I model the 1970s - but I recently rediscovered my > passion for the vintage HO stuff. I didn't have Lionel as a kid, I > grew up on Mantua, old Athearn, Varney, Tyco, etc. I do have a plan > to build a true vintage HO style layout - probably no bigger than 4x6 > - which I will use as a Christmas tree layout, one of my earliest and > fondest memories. But I'll power that with my Marnopower... and maybe > the Scintilla if it arrives in working condition. So I neatly skipped > over the age of DIY electronics... either vintage straight DC, or > present day, manufactured-component DCC. > > I'm the same way with cars. My daily driver is a 2003 ZX2 (Mazda > drive train). I finally figured out how to change the oil (the filter > is well hidden) but other than that, it's a turnkey car. I won't > touch it or take a wrench to it. Ditto my 96 Bronco. But I have a > couple other cars which are closer to my Marnopower in vintage, and I > do a lot of the work on them myself - stopping short of body/paint or > heavy chassis work. > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4265	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > I miss the old Allied stores. In fact, I was actually working for them in > one of their Milwaukee stores (Brookfield Square) at the time Jim Lansing > sold the company to Rat Shack! The only Allied store I was ever in was the one at River Oaks shopping center - it was just across the border from Hammond, I don't remember if it was in Calumet City or Dolton. At least once during the summer visit to grandma's we'd go there. Grandpa would head for the Allied store, and while I didn't really understand electronics it sure beat looking at clothes all day with mom and grandma. Grandpa was a vacuum tube guy mainly though. He had some newer ham gear - he was W9MNO, Al Walters. He was the MARS net controller for his territory in the early 70s, also in the Lake County (IN) RACES net, and civil defense. He took us down to city hall one time to test the air raid sirens. If you think they are loud on the ground, try standing next to the compressor that's blowing the thing. I wish I knew what toasted my old Marnopower. I think the transformer shorted out. I remember spilling some fake (Tyco?) coal in the vent holes, and not long after that, it started buzzing in a 60-cycle hum whenever I'd hit the power switch, and it seemed to be putting out AC to the rails. I never tried to fix it. Since I scored a near mint Marnopower last year on ebay, it has brought back a lot of memories. I always loved the throttle handle. It's as it should be - not so much because it looks like a steam loco throttle, but because I grew up with my hand on that throttle. It had been over 30 years since I used one, but when I'd have dreams of running trains - that was the pack I was using. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4266	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

Hi all, I have a MDC diecast Katy boxcar kit that I have had since I was a kid. Thinking about building it and was wondering, what color was the roof and ends on these cars. The sides are Katy yellow and the rest of the kit is unpainted metal. Perhaps one of you "old timers",(like me), have seen the prototype cars and can answer this. Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4267	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

I have the Silver Streak (wooden) version of this car; it was the first Silver Streak kit issued. The ends, roof, and sides were yerllow, the underbody was black. CinderCrusher <defoe242@...> wrote: Hi all, I have a MDC diecast Katy boxcar kit that I have had since I was a kid. Thinking about building it and was wondering, what color was the roof and ends on these cars. The sides are Katy yellow and the rest of the kit is unpainted metal. Perhaps one of you "old timers",(like me), have seen the prototype cars and can answer this. Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4268	From: Gerry D	Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.

--- Nick <nbrownfzi@...> wrote: > My first HO train set (Christmas 1963) was made by > Lionel. The > locomotive has a rubber band drive and looks a lot > like the Athearn > Hustler. I still have the locomotive. > > Any chance they're related? > > Nick > Nick, Lionel, at the time had their own gear driven hustler. They contracted with Athearn to make the body shells like they did for numerous of their cars. Athearn's was the rubber band drive. Now Cox also had a hustler, it used two gears to drive a shaft that had two worm gears to drive the wheels. Lionel's hustler used worm gears directly on the motor shaft. I owned two of those Lionel Hustler sets back when I started. I've also had one of Athearn's hustlers and right now I'm holding a COX hustler while I hunt n' peck this response. I hope this info helps. Cordially, Gerard_sr http://kitbash.ourpage.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4269	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

----- Original Message ----- From: "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:46 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar > Hi all, > I have a MDC diecast Katy boxcar kit that I have had since I was a > kid. Thinking about building it and was wondering, what color was the > roof and ends on these cars. The sides are Katy yellow and the rest of > the kit is unpainted metal. > Perhaps one of you "old timers",(like me), have seen the prototype cars > and can answer this. > Bill DeFoe I did mine with black roof, ends and doors, as I recall that was a note included with the kit. However, quoting the MDC catalog (1953) "Color variations are numerous; yellow car with brown roof and black ends and underframe; doors are also found painted brown or black along with these variations." A bit ambiguous if I may be so bold. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4270	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.

Gerry D wrote: > > Lionel, at the time had their own gear driven hustler. > They contracted with Athearn to make the body shells > like they did for numerous of their cars. Athearn's > was the rubber band drive. Now Cox also had a hustler, > it used two gears to drive a shaft that had two worm > gears to drive the wheels. Lionel's hustler used worm > gears directly on the motor shaft. What paint schemes were the Lionel versions available in? Mine is painted for the Air Force. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ You know you're getting old when you don't know what time Taco Bell closes anymore.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4271	From: greendoddz	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote: > I have a MDC diecast Katy boxcar kit that I have had since I was a > kid. Thinking about building it and was wondering, what color was the > roof and ends on these cars. The sides are Katy yellow and the rest of > the kit is unpainted metal. > Perhaps one of you "old timers",(like me), have seen the prototype cars > and can answer this. I had one of these as a kid, and I also have an unbuilt kit. My dad built his with the roof and ends yellow to match the sides. I have seen other models done this way as well, but I can't swear it's accurate. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4272	From: jay matz	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

Bill I have one black and one brown some where I saw all yellow, the only photos I found were black and white, lite color  side and dark ends CinderCrusher <defoe242@...> wrote: Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4273	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

Yes, I would also like to know the yellow color scheme also.  These cars were pretty much ubiquitous back in their day, but it is almost impossible to find the color schemes for the yellow MKT wooden boxcars and stock cars.  I would very much like to scratcbuild a couple of these and have some Ambroid kits and decals I picked up here and there, but the Ambroid kits address a Boxcar Red color for both cars and they use White lettering.  Those are cool too, but I also want the yellow ones.  I have some decals with Black lettering that just scream yellow cars.  I hope someone who knows will post the actual colors used on these cars.  I am tempted just to paint them all yellow, or maybe yellow with black underframe.  I do like the idea of brown roof and ends, except I am not sure that is prototypical.  Without a published write up or photos, it would be difficult to provide documentation for Conformity.  Also, if someone knows of a source of actual photos and/or drawings of MKT boxcars and stock cars, I would love that.  I might make that into an AP project. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: defoe242@... Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:46:34 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar Hi all, I have a MDC diecast Katy boxcar kit that I have had since I was a kid. Thinking about building it and was wondering, what color was the roof and ends on these cars. The sides are Katy yellow and the rest of the kit is unpainted metal. Perhaps one of you "old timers",(like me), have seen the prototype cars and can answer this. Bill DeFoe Gear up for Halo® 3 and get a $25 Best Buy gift card. It’s our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live™. Get it now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4274	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

I had already mentioned I did mine with black roof and ends, and quoted what MDC said.  OTOH, my recently completed Mainline wood 36' stock car kit said to use boxcar red roof and ends.   The MDC notes imply that that the prototype used several different combinations of red and black on the cars.   Ypu might try googling to see if there's an MKT Historical society around anywhere.  I know there is for most railroads.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bitleris To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 9:47 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar Yes, I would also like to know the yellow color scheme also.  These cars were pretty much ubiquitous back in their day, but it is almost impossible to find the color schemes for the yellow MKT wooden boxcars and stock cars.  I would very much like to scratcbuild a couple of these and have some Ambroid kits and decals I picked up here and there, but the Ambroid kits address a Boxcar Red color for both cars and they use White lettering.  Those are cool too, but I also want the yellow ones.  I have some decals with Black lettering that just scream yellow cars.  I hope someone who knows will post the actual colors used on these cars.  I am tempted just to paint them all yellow, or maybe yellow with black underframe.  I do like the idea of brown roof and ends, except I am not sure that is prototypical.  Without a published write up or photos, it would be difficult to provide documentation for Conformity.  Also, if someone knows of a source of actual photos and/or drawings of MKT boxcars and stock cars, I would love that.  I might make that into an AP project. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: defoe242@... Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:46:34 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar Hi all, I have a MDC diecast Katy boxcar kit that I have had since I was a kid. Thinking about building it and was wondering, what color was the roof and ends on these cars. The sides are Katy yellow and the rest of the kit is unpainted metal. Perhaps one of you "old timers",(like me), have seen the prototype cars and can answer this. Bill DeFoe Gear up for Halo® 3 and get a $25 Best Buy gift card. It’s our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live™. Get it now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4275	From: hmbb56	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nick" <nbrownfzi@...> wrote: > > My first HO train set (Christmas 1963) was made by Lionel. The > locomotive has a rubber band drive and looks a lot like the Athearn > Hustler. I still have the locomotive. > > Any chance they're related? > > Nick > Nick, In 1958 Athearn made two Hustlers for Lionel. They were the 0570 U.S. Navy and the 0560 Rio Grande snow plow. In 1959 Lionel introduced the Huskey, a gear driven knock off of the Hustler. The shell is slightly different than the Hustler's shell. The roadnames were 0055 Minneapolis & St. Louis, 0056 A. E. C., 0057 Union Pacific, 0058 Rock Island, 0059 U.S. Air Force, and the 0561 Minneapolis & St. Louis snow blower. There was also a 0054 Canadian Pacific that was catalogued, but not produced. Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4276	From: Jerry Prather	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:47:55 -0400, Victor Bitleris wrote: >Yes, I would also like to know the yellow color scheme also. These cars were pretty much ubiquitous back in their day, but it is almost impossible to find the color schemes for the yellow MKT wooden boxcars and stock cars. I have an unbuilt Silver Streak yellow Katy box car kit (Model SS 204). The car number is 170199. The included metal car roof ribs have some rust on them but the white metal parts are in good shape. The kit includes Delrin wheel sets, brake wheel/ladders/grab irons, and body bolsters, brake levers and K-2 brake cylinders still in the original unopened envelope. I'm willing to part with this kit. How much am I offered? Jerry -- A fine is a tax for doing wrong; a tax is a fine for doing well. - Unknown

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4277	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

As an addendum to this post, check here   http://katyrailroad.org/   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar I had already mentioned I did mine with black roof and ends, and quoted what MDC said.  OTOH, my recently completed Mainline wood 36' stock car kit said to use boxcar red roof and ends.   The MDC notes imply that that the prototype used several different combinations of red and black on the cars.   Ypu might try googling to see if there's an MKT Historical society around anywhere.  I know there is for most railroads.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bitleris To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 9:47 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar Yes, I would also like to know the yellow color scheme also.  These cars were pretty much ubiquitous back in their day, but it is almost impossible to find the color schemes for the yellow MKT wooden boxcars and stock cars.  I would very much like to scratcbuild a couple of these and have some Ambroid kits and decals I picked up here and there, but the Ambroid kits address a Boxcar Red color for both cars and they use White lettering.  Those are cool too, but I also want the yellow ones.  I have some decals with Black lettering that just scream yellow cars.  I hope someone who knows will post the actual colors used on these cars.  I am tempted just to paint them all yellow, or maybe yellow with black underframe.  I do like the idea of brown roof and ends, except I am not sure that is prototypical.  Without a published write up or photos, it would be difficult to provide documentation for Conformity.  Also, if someone knows of a source of actual photos and/or drawings of MKT boxcars and stock cars, I would love that.  I might make that into an AP project. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: defoe242@... Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:46:34 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar Hi all, I have a MDC diecast Katy boxcar kit that I have had since I was a kid. Thinking about building it and was wondering, what color was the roof and ends on these cars. The sides are Katy yellow and the rest of the kit is unpainted metal. Perhaps one of you "old timers",(like me), have seen the prototype cars and can answer this. Bill DeFoe Gear up for Halo® 3 and get a $25 Best Buy gift card. It’s our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live™. Get it now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4278	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > As an addendum to this post, check here > > http://katyrailroad.org/ > > To Don and all the rest of you, Wow! What a response! Couldn't find any boxcar photos of the yellow car at the above website, but I did find out it was called "Sloan yellow", apparantly named after the CEO during the 30's and 40's. If no further info surfaces to change my mind, I think I will follow the MDC sheet Don referred to and go with brown roof, ends and doors. Esthetically I think brown will go better with the yellow than boxcar red, and black with yellow looks a little like Halloween. Thanks again, if anyone finds out anything more, let the group know. Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4279	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

Don Dellmann wrote: I had already mentioned I did mine with black roof and ends, and quoted what MDC said.  OTOH, my recently completed Mainline wood 36' stock car kit said to use boxcar red roof and ends.   The MDC notes imply that that the prototype used several different combinations of red and black on the cars.   Ypu might try googling to see if there's an MKT Historical society around anywhere.  I know there is for most railroads.   Don Check the archive of the STMFC list. Steam Freight Car list 1900-1960 I am sure this has been discussed there. Howard Garner

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4280	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

CinderCrusher wrote: > Hi all, > I have a MDC diecast Katy boxcar kit that I have had since I was a > kid. Thinking about building it and was wondering, what color was the > roof and ends on these cars. The sides are Katy yellow and the rest of > the kit is unpainted metal. > Perhaps one of you "old timers",(like me), have seen the prototype cars > and can answer this. I'm looking at the 1965 Champ Decals lettering plan book. It shows a MKT boxcar with orange-yellow sides and ends, a brown roof, and black trucks and underbody. Next to the data it says Railway Express Agency Storage Mail. The build date is in 1929. This is an all steel car. The decal set number is HB-1 for HO and OB-1 for O. There's also a wood side MKT reefer. It has yellow sides, Tuscan red ends and roof, and black underbody. The build date is in 1927. The lettering says the reefer is Assigned To..." the Katy. The reporting marks are GARX. The decal set is number HR-5 for HO and R-5 for O. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ What do you get when you cross Rush Limbaugh with OxyContin? An Oxymoron

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4281	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

I am looking thru my copy of “MKT Lines in Color” by Raymond George.  Unfortunately, no cattle cars in there.  BUT, there are yellow box cars, boxcar red box cars, “Katy red” box cars and cabooses, and green cabooses.  Also, several shots of yellow MW cars.  They all have ends and roofs the same color as the sides; the undersides all appear to be black. Also, several shots of the yellow cabooses: ends are yellow, but I cannot see the roofs clearly. Appear to be dark, but may just be dirt accumulation, as the cars are “well weathered”. All of the yellow cars are lettered in black; the red cars in white, and green equipment in yellow.  Interestingly, during the Katy red era, some loco roofs were Katy red, and some were black.  So looks as a general rule, whatever the color of the sides, the ends and roofs were most likely the same color.  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:48 AM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar   Yes, I would also like to know the yellow color scheme also.  These cars were pretty much ubiquitous back in their day, but it is almost impossible to find the color schemes for the yellow MKT wooden boxcars and stock cars.  I would very much like to scratcbuild a couple of these and have some Ambroid kits and decals I picked up here and there, but the Ambroid kits address a Boxcar Red color for both cars and they use White lettering.  Those are cool too, but I also want the yellow ones.  I have some decals with Black lettering that just scream yellow cars.  I hope someone who knows will post the actual colors used on these cars.  I am tempted just to paint them all yellow, or maybe yellow with black underframe.  I do like the idea of brown roof and ends, except I am not sure that is prototypical.  Without a published write up or photos, it would be difficult to provide documentation for Conformity.  Also, if someone knows of a source of actual photos and/or drawings of MKT boxcars and stock cars, I would love that.  I might make that into an AP project. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: defoe242@... Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:46:34 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar Hi all, I have a MDC diecast Katy boxcar kit that I have had since I was a kid. Thinking about building it and was wondering, what color was the roof and ends on these cars. The sides are Katy yellow and the rest of the kit is unpainted metal. Perhaps one of you "old timers",(like me), have seen the prototype cars and can answer this. Bill DeFoe   Gear up for Halo® 3 and get a $25 Best Buy gift card. It’s our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live™. Get it now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4282	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote: > > I am looking thru my copy of "MKT Lines in Color" by Raymond George. there are yellow box cars, > They all have ends and roofs the > same color as the sides; the undersides all appear to be black. So looks as a general rule, > whatever the color of the sides, the ends and roofs were most likely the > same color. JerryG > Thanks Jerry, Looks like I may have to re-think painting the ends and roof brown. Decisions, decisions. Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4283	From: sswcharlie	Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Vintage Model of GMDH-1 Demo Loco

Did any of the older manufacturers produce an HO model of the General Motors Diesel Hydraulic GMDH-1, from the 1960s. Charlie Harris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4284	From: erieberk	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

Thought I might find something in Kratville Publication's Railroad Car Journal (1971), but this shows only the M-K-T XM boxcar built 12/54 in boxcar red. Champ Decal's 25th Anniversary Freight Car Lettering Plan Book (1965) shows the orange-yellow 40' M-K-T double-door box car (built 9/29) with orange-yellow ends and brown roof, lettered for Railway Express Agency Storage Mail service, as Rick said but often, cars used in different types of service were painted differently even though cars of the same service, whether double or single door, where usually painted the same. There were yellow Katy boxcars in general service (other than for Railway Express Agency). Express box cars were almost always painted differently from freight service cars, and most often reflected the passenger train scheme they usually were used in. MDC's metal car kit instructions directed the modeler to paint the ends and roof black, as Don stated, as did Athearn's (and IMP's) instructions for their metal 50' AAR roof double-door car. I've never seen an Athearn Katy boxcar painted any other way. BTW, Halloween colors are orange and black (not yellow and black). Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote: > > Thanks Jerry, > Looks like I may have to re-think painting the ends and roof brown. > Decisions, decisions. > Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. > Bill DeFoe >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4285	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

Attachments : Here is a photo of a Varney Katy box, that proves nothing of course.  But has the black roof and yellow body. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 8:28 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar   Thought I might find something in Kratville Publication' s Railroad Car Journal (1971), but this shows only the M-K-T XM boxcar built 12/54 in boxcar red. Champ Decal's 25th Anniversary Freight Car Lettering Plan Book (1965) shows the orange-yellow 40' M-K-T double-door box car (built 9/29) with orange-yellow ends and brown roof, lettered for Railway Express Agency Storage Mail service, as Rick said but often, cars used in different types of service were painted differently even though cars of the same service, whether double or single door, where usually painted the same. There were yellow Katy boxcars in general service (other than for Railway Express Agency). Express box cars were almost always painted differently from freight service cars, and most often reflected the passenger train scheme they usually were used in. MDC's metal car kit instructions directed the modeler to paint the ends and roof black, as Don stated, as did Athearn's (and IMP's) instructions for their metal 50' AAR roof double-door car. I've never seen an Athearn Katy boxcar painted any other way. BTW, Halloween colors are orange and black (not yellow and black). Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@.. .> wrote: > > Thanks Jerry, > Looks like I may have to re-think painting the ends and roof brown. > Decisions, decisions. > Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. > Bill DeFoe >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4286	From: Maynard Keith Franklin	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

Chuck: Attached photos will not be shown in message posts, they have to be sent to the photo albums. I too have both a 36-ft. Silver Streak yellow Katy Box, and a 50-ft. Varney yellow Katy double door (automobile) box, which I assembled in the late '40s. Both have yellow roofs, ends, and black underbodies. Don't have any notion why other than mebbe that's what the instructions said to do. Maynard Keith Franklin N91472@... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Here is a photo of a Varney Katy box, that proves nothing of course. But > has the black roof and yellow body. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of erieberk > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 8:28 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar > > > > Thought I might find something in Kratville Publication's Railroad Car > Journal (1971), but this shows only the M-K-T XM boxcar built 12/54 in > boxcar red. Champ Decal's 25th Anniversary Freight Car Lettering Plan > Book (1965) shows the orange-yellow 40' M-K-T double-door box car > (built 9/29) with orange-yellow ends and brown roof, lettered for > Railway Express Agency Storage Mail service, as Rick said but often, > cars used in different types of service were painted differently even > though cars of the same service, whether double or single door, where > usually painted the same. > > There were yellow Katy boxcars in general service (other than for > Railway Express Agency). Express box cars were almost always painted > differently from freight service cars, and most often reflected the > passenger train scheme they usually were used in. MDC's metal car kit > instructions directed the modeler to paint the ends and roof black, as > Don stated, as did Athearn's (and IMP's) instructions for their metal > 50' AAR roof double-door car. I've never seen an Athearn Katy boxcar > painted any other way. BTW, Halloween colors are orange and black (not > yellow and black). Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, > "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@> > wrote: > > > > Thanks Jerry, > > Looks like I may have to re-think painting the ends and roof brown. > > Decisions, decisions. > > Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. > > Bill DeFoe > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4287	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

Maynard: Thanks, the photo appeared when I got the email.  But I have posted it in the photos section in Chuck H vintage stuff.  Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Maynard Keith Franklin Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:22 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar   Chuck: Attached photos will not be shown in message posts, they have to be sent to the photo albums. I too have both a 36-ft. Silver Streak yellow Katy Box, and a 50-ft. Varney yellow Katy double door (automobile) box, which I assembled in the late '40s. Both have yellow roofs, ends, and black underbodies. Don't have any notion why other than mebbe that's what the instructions said to do. Maynard Keith Franklin N91472@... --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@. ..> wrote: > > Here is a photo of a Varney Katy box, that proves nothing of course. But > has the black roof and yellow body. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf > Of erieberk > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 8:28 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar > > > > Thought I might find something in Kratville Publication' s Railroad Car > Journal (1971), but this shows only the M-K-T XM boxcar built 12/54 in > boxcar red. Champ Decal's 25th Anniversary Freight Car Lettering Plan > Book (1965) shows the orange-yellow 40' M-K-T double-door box car > (built 9/29) with orange-yellow ends and brown roof, lettered for > Railway Express Agency Storage Mail service, as Rick said but often, > cars used in different types of service were painted differently even > though cars of the same service, whether double or single door, where > usually painted the same. > > There were yellow Katy boxcars in general service (other than for > Railway Express Agency). Express box cars were almost always painted > differently from freight service cars, and most often reflected the > passenger train scheme they usually were used in. MDC's metal car kit > instructions directed the modeler to paint the ends and roof black, as > Don stated, as did Athearn's (and IMP's) instructions for their metal > 50' AAR roof double-door car. I've never seen an Athearn Katy boxcar > painted any other way. BTW, Halloween colors are orange and black (not > yellow and black). Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com, > "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@> > wrote: > > > > Thanks Jerry, > > Looks like I may have to re-think painting the ends and roof brown. > > Decisions, decisions. > > Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. > > Bill DeFoe > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4288	From: Jack Priller	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Dates?

Got a photo from another modeler NOT really into HO, but he would like to know just what it is he has, and how old it might be. Picture in Jack's Junque. Personally, I don't recall those Central Valley graphics, but 'they' do say that memory is the 2nd thing to go. Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4289	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dates?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Dates? > Got a photo from another modeler NOT really into HO, but he would > like to know just what it is he has, and how old it might be. Picture > in Jack's Junque. Personally, I don't recall those Central Valley > graphics, but 'they' do say that memory is the 2nd thing to go. > > Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller If the Silver streak boxes don't mention "Pacific HO" or "Walthers", I'd say they're from the mid to late 1950's to eaely 60's. Pacific HO took over the line in the early 60's, Walthers bought them early 70's . The Central Valleys could be from anywhere up to the mid 1970's when George Hook retired. (I'm not sure when that was, but he was still making the kits when I met him in 1972). Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4290	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

Attachments : ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:48 AM Subject: RE: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar Here is a photo of a Varney Katy box, that proves nothing of course. But has the black roof and yellow body. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ And here's a Varney stock from the same vinatge with a RED roof. I get the feeling on this one you can almost do whatever you want and who's to say it's not right. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4291	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dates?

Jack Priller wrote: > Got a photo from another modeler NOT really into HO, but he would > like to know just what it is he has, and how old it might be. Picture > in Jack's Junque. Personally, I don't recall those Central Valley > graphics, but 'they' do say that memory is the 2nd thing to go. > > Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller > Jack, This design dates from 1952 based on the copyright of the instruction sheet enclosed. I have an older one with a 1950 copyright date that uses a simular design but does not cover the side of the box. The sides are silver. The end label also has the names of George Hook and Harry Weiss. The encloed catalog sheet only shows the box cars and mentions other car types to come. The die cutting of the sides is also different on the older kit. This is the only 1950-52 kit that I have seen. The 1952 version does show up on and them. Howard Garner Pickens, SC > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4292	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dates?

Don Dellmann wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Priller" <westpac67@... <mailto:westpac67%40yahoo.com>> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:28 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Dates? > > > Got a photo from another modeler NOT really into HO, but he would > > like to know just what it is he has, and how old it might be. Picture > > in Jack's Junque. Personally, I don't recall those Central Valley > > graphics, but 'they' do say that memory is the 2nd thing to go. > > > > Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller > > If the Silver streak boxes don't mention "Pacific HO" or "Walthers", > I'd say > they're from the mid to late 1950's to eaely 60's. Pacific HO took > over the > line in the early 60's, Walthers bought them early 70's . The Central > Valleys could be from anywhere up to the mid 1970's when George Hook > retired. (I'm not sure when that was, but he was still making the kits > when > I met him in 1972). > > Don > By the early 60's the box artwork had changed. Someone may have some closer dates. There was the new design with red and andother with green as the dominate color. I do not have dates for when these came out. Howard Garner > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4293	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

There was a period in railroading when it was popular to use a certain thick, black, paint-like product to seal old car ends and roofs as needed to extend the life of the car. As I have read about........ Perhaps this is why the look so sporadically turns up on only some cars, operated by some roads, and not all cars of any series? Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Sep 16, 2007, at 7:36 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chuck Higdon > > > Here is a photo of a Varney Katy box, that proves nothing of > course. But > has the black roof and yellow body. > > Take care, > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________ > > > And here's a Varney stock from the same vinatge with a RED roof. I > get the > feeling on this one you can almost do whatever you want and who's > to say > it's not right.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4294	From: Jay Matz	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Athearn Loco

Group Where can I get rubber bands for the old Athearn drives or what is a replacment for them ?? Thanks Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4295	From: Wobbly913	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Loco

Jay   The rubber bands are part # ATH90101 and are readily available from  Horizon Hobby for $3.60 for a package of 24.  Also your local hobby shop/Athearn dealer could also have them, mine does.  I have several dozen Hi F drive engines from Hustlers to F7s Gp7s and RDC cars so I replace them from time to time. If your local Athearn dealer/hobby shop doesn't have them they should be able to get them.   DON"T get burned buying them from the overpriced offerings on Ebay. They will gouge you.   Wobbly913 Jay Matz <dlw455@...> wrote: Group Where can I get rubber bands for the old Athearn drives or what is a replacment for them ?? Thanks Jay Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4296	From: David Keim	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Loco

hi jay!,back in the 70's,there was an article that said the small rubber bands use by dentist and those with braces would be the right size.I belive the one from athern may still be gotten.have a link,i will send along as i don't have it handy.will send tonite.hope this may help! dave > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4297	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Loco

Jay, When my sister and I were growing up, I found those little rubber hair bands that ladies use for ponytails and other hairdos can work. You can get them at places like Walgreens. You can get them in various sizes I would guess, but I found the small ones work better than the originals. Sounds funny, but it works. You can get a whole box of them for a few bucks. -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Matz" <dlw455@...> wrote: > > Group > Where can I get rubber bands for the old Athearn drives or what is a > replacment for them ?? > > Thanks Jay >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4298	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Hello group!   The T1 has arrived!  It does not look like an import to me. The boiler is a very early sand casting. One piece, just like the Varney streamlined shell I have. The quality looks to good to be an amateur job.   It is HO scale. It fits easily on the HO track. It has a solid U channel chassis and is not articulated or powered. The drivers are solid machined brass with ground out spoke detail and are not insulated. The tender is also a sand casting that was pieced together. I will post pictures when I get home from work. I found no builders marks anywhere, but the plastic/glue covered wire R I R on the front is curious to me. Did we not last year have someone post pictures of an early Rivarossi cast metal engine with the same R I R on the front?   I have my trains delivered to work since my wife put her foot down a couple of months ago. She was not happy about having a box show up at our door every day. So now they come to work and I sneak them in...   Sean Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4299	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Sean ! You gotta do whattcha gotta do ! Only thibg is this'ns a tad on the large size ! [good luck]. You can check the axle/driver size , maybe you lucked out . Interchange 'em for bowsers ?? Hank H --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hello group! > > The T1 has arrived! It does not look like an import to me. The boiler is a very early sand casting. One piece, just like the Varney streamlined shell I have. The quality looks to good to be an amateur job. > > It is HO scale. It fits easily on the HO track. It has a solid U channel chassis and is not articulated or powered. The drivers are solid machined brass with ground out spoke detail and are not insulated. The tender is also a sand casting that was pieced together. I will post pictures when I get home from work. I found no builders marks anywhere, but the plastic/glue covered wire R I R on the front is curious to me. Did we not last year have someone post pictures of an early Rivarossi cast metal engine with the same R I R on the front? > > I have my trains delivered to work since my wife put her foot down a couple of months ago. She was not happy about having a box show up at our door every day. So now they come to work and I sneak them in... > > Sean > > > --------------------------------- > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4300	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

hEY hANK! oops.. working an AutoCAD today..   The tender dos seem to have insulated trucks. Itis definately HO and does not look like it would be very hard to power-up. The valve gear is functional and mounts to both the drive rods/drivers and to the chasses, so brackets would be needed. The chassis could easily be cut and motors could be mounted just like the Bowser version.  Sounds like a fun project, if you ask me..   It weighs 4 pounds...  That is heavy!  No lead or motor even!   I think it looks great!   Another exciting challenge to find the maker of this engine. Seems as if it may be a harder task than that of my little green Penn Line D1 Whitcomb.   Sean Henry Hultgren <long95209@...> wrote: Sean ! You gotta do whattcha gotta do ! Only thibg is this'ns a tad on the large size ! [good luck]. You can check the axle/driver size , maybe you lucked out . Interchange 'em for bowsers ?? Hank H --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hello group! > > The T1 has arrived! It does not look like an import to me. The boiler is a very early sand casting. One piece, just like the Varney streamlined shell I have. The quality looks to good to be an amateur job. > > It is HO scale. It fits easily on the HO track. It has a solid U channel chassis and is not articulated or powered. The drivers are solid machined brass with ground out spoke detail and are not insulated. The tender is also a sand casting that was pieced together. I will post pictures when I get home from work. I found no builders marks anywhere, but the plastic/glue covered wire R I R on the front is curious to me. Did we not last year have someone post pictures of an early Rivarossi cast metal engine with the same R I R on the front? > > I have my trains delivered to work since my wife put her foot down a couple of months ago. She was not happy about having a box show up at our door every day. So now they come to work and I sneak them in... > > Sean > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4301	From: sean naylor	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?

Ok Hank.   I added pics.. Take a look. I made a Brass T1 folder.   Sean Henry Hultgren <long95209@...> wrote: Sean ! You gotta do whattcha gotta do ! Only thibg is this'ns a tad on the large size ! [good luck]. You can check the axle/driver size , maybe you lucked out . Interchange 'em for bowsers ?? Hank H --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote: > > Hello group! > > The T1 has arrived! It does not look like an import to me. The boiler is a very early sand casting. One piece, just like the Varney streamlined shell I have. The quality looks to good to be an amateur job. > > It is HO scale. It fits easily on the HO track. It has a solid U channel chassis and is not articulated or powered. The drivers are solid machined brass with ground out spoke detail and are not insulated. The tender is also a sand casting that was pieced together. I will post pictures when I get home from work. I found no builders marks anywhere, but the plastic/glue covered wire R I R on the front is curious to me. Did we not last year have someone post pictures of an early Rivarossi cast metal engine with the same R I R on the front? > > I have my trains delivered to work since my wife put her foot down a couple of months ago. She was not happy about having a box show up at our door every day. So now they come to work and I sneak them in... > > Sean > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. > Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4302	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Tru-Scale roadbed

The Glendale Model Railroad Club, (Glendale, California) recently cleaned out the attic, and found a great deal of Tru-Scale HO gauge roadbed, including right and left switch blocks. Our layout isn't going to add more trackage, so if any of the Vintage HO group wants some, eiher e-mail me at the address above, or go to GMRRC.org to contact the Club.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4303	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar

That thick, black paint was just tar (as in roofing tar), cut back generally with naphtha (years ago this was 7-8 cents a gallon), and painted on.  The naphtha evaporated, the tar dried, and they had a “sealed up” surface.  The old wooden passenger cars and cabooses of the early 20th century had canvas laid over the wood roofs, and this stuff used to seal the canvas and prolong its life.   As to the boxcar red paint, its color was greatly influenced by all the red lead used to make it durable and resistant to rusting.  Additional pigment was probably added to give the paint its more brownish tint, and a more pleasing color.  This stuff was “canned” in 55 gallon drums for railroad use, so was relatively inexpensive, and effective in achieving the goals of longevity and rust prevention.   As to the MKT, it went thru cycles of prosperity and almost bankruptcy, so in the lean years it probably picked up various coatings at cheap prices to try and maintain its equipment.  The yellow paint was favored by president Matthew Sloan in the post-WW II prosperity years, so on rebuilding the car fleet, lots of stuff (boxcars, cabooses, cattle cars, etc.) got the yellow paint treatment. The black and boxcar red paint most likely was a result of trying to maintain this stuff in the lean years of late ‘50’s ,and ‘60’s.  So, a good chance of all of these paint combinations discussed showing up on MKT rolling stock at some time or another.   JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 11:05 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar   There was a period in railroading when it was popular to use a certain thick, black, paint-like product to seal old car ends and roofs as needed to extend the life of the car. As I have read about........ Perhaps this is why the look so sporadically turns up on only some cars, operated by some roads, and not all cars of any series? Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Sep 16, 2007, at 7:36 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chuck Higdon > > > Here is a photo of a Varney Katy box, that proves nothing of > course. But > has the black roof and yellow body. > > Take care, > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > __________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________ > > > And here's a Varney stock from the same vinatge with a RED roof. I > get the > feeling on this one you can almost do whatever you want and who's > to say > it's not right.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4304	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Tru-Scale roadbed

hI;  I got  some Tooo.    Ray L    I had a Stroke "A.W. Wallace" <awallace4056@...> wrote: The Glendale Model Railroad Club, (Glendale, California) recently cleaned out the attic, and found a great deal of Tru-Scale HO gauge roadbed, including right and left switch blocks. Our layout isn't going to add more trackage, so if any of the Vintage HO group wants some, eiher e-mail me at the address above, or go to GMRRC.org to contact the Club. Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4305	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: MY TRAINS

Hi;   I am free-lance.   I got  Tech 4 / 280 Dual Power,   Now my layout  # 18     I have move in apartment , Three bed room.   I am used  True-track. ( www.atlasrr.com )   .I got in to "L" shape     1 plywood 4' X ' 6    1    ply wood  4' X 8'     22'  Raduis    Maximum    18'  Raduis    Minimum                  I live Gladstone,OR                                      Ray  L                I had a Stroke                      Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4306	From: John Bell	Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: MY TRAINS

Hi Raymond,   You don't know me, but we have something in common. My wife had a bad stroke, about two months ago. I hope you are able to continue building. Stroke victims truly have a lot of guts.   Take care,   John Bell ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Lorts Sr To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 2:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] MY TRAINS Hi;   I am free-lance.   I got  Tech 4 / 280 Dual Power,   Now my layout  # 18     I have move in apartment , Three bed room.   I am used  True-track. ( www.atlasrr. com )   .I got in to "L" shape     1 plywood 4' X ' 6    1    ply wood  4' X 8'     22'  Raduis    Maximum    18'  Raduis    Minimum                  I live Gladstone,OR                                      Ray  L                I had a Stroke                      Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4307	From: lesbrody923	Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans

Gentlemen: I've been collecting vintage wood kits and have tried to obtain all the old Ambroid kits and the LaBelle Passenger series. Just got 2 Ambroid sno plow kits which may be complete. Advertised as having one set of plans which turned out to be the template for the snow plow only. Does anyone have the plans for this Ambroid kit. Would appreciate getting the building information as this is not a simple slap together box. Thanks. Les Brody lesbrody923@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4308	From: John Barlow	Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans

Dear Les,   I tried HO Seeker(s) at www.hoseeker.net. If that doesn't work, try www.hoseekers.net. Their Ambroid list of plans did not list the snowplow (originallya B&M prototype, wasn't it?) They might, however, be able to refer you on to one who does. If you come across a LaBelle EBT caboose kit in HOn3, please let me know.   John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...) lesbrody923 <lesbrody923@...> wrote: Gentlemen: I've been collecting vintage wood kits and have tried to obtain all the old Ambroid kits and the LaBelle Passenger series. Just got 2 Ambroid sno plow kits which may be complete. Advertised as having one set of plans which turned out to be the template for the snow plow only. Does anyone have the plans for this Ambroid kit. Would appreciate getting the building information as this is not a simple slap together box. Thanks. Les Brody lesbrody923@ yahoo.com Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4309	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans

There were 2 kinds of Ambroid snow plows.  One was a winged snow plow with an aluminum plow and wings.  This one was K-10.  The other had a wood plow and wings. This one was kit K-1.  See the following URL for more info: http://home.att.net/~pers_home/trains/woodkits/Ambroid_K-Cars.htm#K-10 You may wish to clarify as the instruction for one would not work for the other. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: lesbrody923@... Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:43:49 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Snow Plow Plans Gentlemen: I've been collecting vintage wood kits and have tried to obtain all the old Ambroid kits and the LaBelle Passenger series. Just got 2 Ambroid sno plow kits which may be complete. Advertised as having one set of plans which turned out to be the template for the snow plow only. Does anyone have the plans for this Ambroid kit. Would appreciate getting the building information as this is not a simple slap together box. Thanks. Les Brody lesbrody923@ yahoo.com Can you find the hidden words?  Take a break and play Seekadoo! Play now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4310	From: jay matz	Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans

Les Is it the B&M plow or the wing plow? Jay lesbrody923 <lesbrody923@...> wrote: m Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4311	From: lesbrody923	Date: 9/21/2007
Subject: the box says winged snowplow and one has a small piece of in

Gentlemen: The boxes for my ambroid snowplow say winged snowplow and there is a large piece of tin (?alunimum) in one and the remnants of the same piece in the other box. So, any plans available? Thanks so much. Les brody

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4312	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/23/2007
Subject: Re: the box says winged snowplow and one has a small piece of in

Hi, I will be happy to scan in and send you images of the plans.  Please send me your email address off list and I will send them to you directly.  ( I think it is lesbrody923@..., but would be best to do this offline to ensure accuracy.)  I believe yahoo.com email allows 10 meg in attachments, but I doubt the scans will be that large. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: lesbrody923@... Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:05:29 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] the box says winged snowplow and one has a small piece of in Gentlemen: The boxes for my ambroid snowplow say winged snowplow and there is a large piece of tin (?alunimum) in one and the remnants of the same piece in the other box. So, any plans available? Thanks so much. Les brody Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Café. Play now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4313	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: TrainFest In Milwaukee, WI- November

Hi, all, Last November, I met someone at Milwaukee Trainfest who was with this group. Can't remember the gent's name, but with Trainfest coming again in a couple months, I was wondering if that is something this group, or a few of its members in the Midwest do. They had an operating layout there. If it will be set up again, I would like to bring some of my Picard Novelty Co. cars, and maybe a Mantua Pacific with some paper and wood coaches. (The train I call the Chattanooga Choo Choo on my layout). Who is going to Trainfest in Milwaukee, and what is the plan for this year? -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4314	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: Re: TrainFest In Milwaukee, WI- November

----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] TrainFest In Milwaukee, WI- November > Hi, all, > > Last November, I met someone at Milwaukee Trainfest who was with this > group. Can't remember the gent's name, but with Trainfest coming again > in a couple months, I was wondering if that is something this group, > or a few of its members in the Midwest do. They had an operating > layout there. If it will be set up again, I would like to bring some > of my Picard Novelty Co. cars, and maybe a Mantua Pacific with some > paper and wood coaches. (The train I call the Chattanooga Choo Choo on > my layout). > > Who is going to Trainfest in Milwaukee, and what is the plan for this > year? > > -Steve Several of us here attend every year. Our group, Cream City Traction, runs a trolley layout with curves that probably wouln't handle your cars, but some of the other layouts could. (I'm thinking one in particular but he'll need to speak for himself <G>). The dates this year are November 10 & 11. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4315	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 9/29/2007
Subject: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam

The book "Pacific Fast Mail... 25 Years of Fine Models" states that the first PFM catalog was the loose leaf version and calls it the 1st edition.  It turns out this is incorrect.   I recently got a copy of the 1st printed edition of the PFM catalog.  It does not state an edition on it and the year is not stated but is almost certainly 1955 based on prices printed in it.  It is identical in design to the 2nd and 3rd editions but simply doesn't state anything about the "edition".  Starting with the 2nd printed edition, price lists were seperate.   Also, the reason I wouldn't call the loose leaf a "1st edition" of the catalog is because sheets were continually sent to be added well after the first printed edition.  The loose leaf seemed to be meant for dealers, although if you requested you could be put on a mailing list for update sheets.  I have a 2nd edition printed catalog with a coupon bound into it that you would send with an SASE to get the next loose sheet - and a promise that with the next sheet you would get another coupon.   There are a couple of other interesting things mentioned in that first PFM print catalog that underscore we are talking about a catalog over 50 years old now and, for some of us, we were actually contemporary when steam was still used.   On the NYC Hudson page, it mentions "This model, representative of a fast passing age in railroading, creates a nostalgic effect,..." On the USRA 0-8-0 page, it says "...is used on more railroads than any other design." On the shay page, it says"  "...some have worked over fifty years -- yet now they are fast disappearing.  None have been built in the last several years."   The 2nd edition has the same comments.   Alas, by the 3rd edition we see... For the NYC Hudson it says "...it was one of the most useful... For the USRA 0-8-0 it says "It was widely used..."  For the shay it says "Now that they are almost extinct..."   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4316	From: Mary Long	Date: 9/29/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam

Gee , that's how fast it all happened as well . By 1958 all were gone in Ohio . Hank H. ckinzer@... wrote: The book "Pacific Fast Mail... 25 Years of Fine Models" states that the first PFM catalog was the loose leaf version and calls it the 1st edition.  It turns out this is incorrect.   I recently got a copy of the 1st printed edition of the PFM catalog.  It does not state an edition on it and the year is not stated but is almost certainly 1955 based on prices printed in it.  It is identical in design to the 2nd and 3rd editions but simply doesn't state anything about the "edition".  Starting with the 2nd printed edition, price lists were seperate.   Also, the reason I wouldn't call the loose leaf a "1st edition" of the catalog is because sheets were continually sent to be added well after the first printed edition.  The loose leaf seemed to be meant for dealers, although if you requested you could be put on a mailing list for update sheets.  I have a 2nd edition printed catalog with a coupon bound into it that you would send with an SASE to get the next loose sheet - and a promise that with the next sheet you would get another coupon.   There are a couple of other interesting things mentioned in that first PFM print catalog that underscore we are talking about a catalog over 50 years old now and, for some of us, we were actually contemporary when steam was still used.   On the NYC Hudson page, it mentions "This model, representative of a fast passing age in railroading, creates a nostalgic effect,..." On the USRA 0-8-0 page, it says "...is used on more railroads than any other design." On the shay page, it says"  "...some have worked over fifty years -- yet now they are fast disappearing.  None have been built in the last several years."   The 2nd edition has the same comments.   Alas, by the 3rd edition we see... For the NYC Hudson it says "...it was one of the most useful... For the USRA 0-8-0 it says "It was widely used..."  For the shay it says "Now that they are almost extinct..."   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4317	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam

Want to feel OLD?  Go the Illinois RR Museum in Union IL.  They have a UP DDA40X in a MUSEUM!   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Long To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam Gee , that's how fast it all happened as well . By 1958 all were gone in Ohio . Hank H. ckinzer@... wrote: The book "Pacific Fast Mail... 25 Years of Fine Models" states that the first PFM catalog was the loose leaf version and calls it the 1st edition.  It turns out this is incorrect.   I recently got a copy of the 1st printed edition of the PFM catalog.  It does not state an edition on it and the year is not stated but is almost certainly 1955 based on prices printed in it.  It is identical in design to the 2nd and 3rd editions but simply doesn't state anything about the "edition".  Starting with the 2nd printed edition, price lists were seperate.   Also, the reason I wouldn't call the loose leaf a "1st edition" of the catalog is because sheets were continually sent to be added well after the first printed edition.  The loose leaf seemed to be meant for dealers, although if you requested you could be put on a mailing list for update sheets.  I have a 2nd edition printed catalog with a coupon bound into it that you would send with an SASE to get the next loose sheet - and a promise that with the next sheet you would get another coupon.   There are a couple of other interesting things mentioned in that first PFM print catalog that underscore we are talking about a catalog over 50 years old now and, for some of us, we were actually contemporary when steam was still used.   On the NYC Hudson page, it mentions "This model, representative of a fast passing age in railroading, creates a nostalgic effect,..." On the USRA 0-8-0 page, it says "...is used on more railroads than any other design." On the shay page, it says"  "...some have worked over fifty years -- yet now they are fast disappearing.  None have been built in the last several years."   The 2nd edition has the same comments.   Alas, by the 3rd edition we see... For the NYC Hudson it says "...it was one of the most useful... For the USRA 0-8-0 it says "It was widely used..."  For the shay it says "Now that they are almost extinct..."   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4318	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam

Don, I can ace you on that- I'm 23 years of age- I grew up in Davenport, IA, where the Davenport, Rock Island & Northwestern short line railroad ran. It was co-owned by the Soo Line and the BN. When those two went through their respective mergers, the 'DRI Line' ceased operations, and their SW7 (I think) is now in the Illinois Railway Museum too. So yes, a locomotive even I grew up with, is there too. Sigh. -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Want to feel OLD? Go the Illinois RR Museum in Union IL. They have a UP DDA40X in a MUSEUM! > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mary Long > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:45 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam > > > Gee , that's how fast it all happened as well . By 1958 all were gone in Ohio . Hank H. > > ckinzer@... wrote: > The book "Pacific Fast Mail... 25 Years of Fine Models" states that the first PFM catalog was the loose leaf version and calls it the 1st edition. It turns out this is incorrect. > > I recently got a copy of the 1st printed edition of the PFM catalog. It does not state an edition on it and the year is not stated but is almost certainly 1955 based on prices printed in it. It is identical in design to the 2nd and 3rd editions but simply doesn't state anything about the "edition". Starting with the 2nd printed edition, price lists were seperate. > > Also, the reason I wouldn't call the loose leaf a "1st edition" of the catalog is because sheets were continually sent to be added well after the first printed edition. The loose leaf seemed to be meant for dealers, although if you requested you could be put on a mailing list for update sheets. I have a 2nd edition printed catalog with a coupon bound into it that you would send with an SASE to get the next loose sheet - and a promise that with the next sheet you would get another coupon. > > There are a couple of other interesting things mentioned in that first PFM print catalog that underscore we are talking about a catalog over 50 years old now and, for some of us, we were actually contemporary when steam was still used. > > On the NYC Hudson page, it mentions "This model, representative of a fast passing age in railroading, creates a nostalgic effect,..." > On the USRA 0-8-0 page, it says "...is used on more railroads than any other design." > On the shay page, it says" "...some have worked over fifty years -- yet now they are fast disappearing. None have been built in the last several years." > > The 2nd edition has the same comments. > > Alas, by the 3rd edition we see... > For the NYC Hudson it says "...it was one of the most useful... > For the USRA 0-8-0 it says "It was widely used..." > For the shay it says "Now that they are almost extinct..." > > Chuck Kinzer >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4319	From: curmudgeon	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam

Old? Heck. I remember the SP 0-6-0 switcher doing the turn at Northrup across Crenshaw. I remember riding backseat in the family '40 Ford Tudor, heading north to Lancaster on the Sierra Highway, dropping down out of the hills, as the rail line came up on my side, and looking right into the cab window of a Back-Up Mallet, which we paced all the way to Lancaster..... I remember new Lockheed Constellations....and Super-Connies.....flew over the house in Hawthorne all the time....and "Peacemakers" droning through the sky for what seemed like forever..... And everyday gas was 24.9, on a 16 gallon tank it was impossible to put $5 in it. Gas wars........19.9 a gallon. Full-serve premium (Ethyl!) was 34.9, if we saw 36.9, we drove on.... Water stops on the Grapevine...... > > Want to feel OLD? Go the Illinois RR Museum in Union IL. They have a UP DDA40X in a MUSEUM! > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mary Long > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:45 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam > > > Gee , that's how fast it all happened as well . By 1958 all were gone in Ohio . Hank H. > > ckinzer@... wrote: > The book "Pacific Fast Mail... 25 Years of Fine Models" states that the first PFM catalog was the loose leaf version and calls it the 1st edition. It turns out this is incorrect. > > I recently got a copy of the 1st printed edition of the PFM catalog. It does not state an edition on it and the year is not stated but is almost certainly 1955 based on prices printed in it. It is identical in design to the 2nd and 3rd editions but simply doesn't state anything about the "edition". Starting with the 2nd printed edition, price lists were seperate. > > Also, the reason I wouldn't call the loose leaf a "1st edition" of the catalog is because sheets were continually sent to be added well after the first printed edition. The loose leaf seemed to be meant for dealers, although if you requested you could be put on a mailing list for update sheets. I have a 2nd edition printed catalog with a coupon bound into it that you would send with an SASE to get the next loose sheet - and a promise that with the next sheet you would get another coupon. > > There are a couple of other interesting things mentioned in that first PFM print catalog that underscore we are talking about a catalog over 50 years old now and, for some of us, we were actually contemporary when steam was still used. > > On the NYC Hudson page, it mentions "This model, representative of a fast passing age in railroading, creates a nostalgic effect,..." > On the USRA 0-8-0 page, it says "...is used on more railroads than any other design." > On the shay page, it says" "...some have worked over fifty years -- yet now they are fast disappearing. None have been built in the last several years." > > The 2nd edition has the same comments. > > Alas, by the 3rd edition we see... > For the NYC Hudson it says "...it was one of the most useful... > For the USRA 0-8-0 it says "It was widely used..." > For the shay it says "Now that they are almost extinct..." > > Chuck Kinzer >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4320	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam

In 1955 I was eighteen years old and too stupid to try to scrounge up a camera: I would see double headed MoPac Mikados pulling a train spaced about every ten cars with two or three deadheaded steam locomotives on the way to the cutting torch. It was like watching death. And then they were gone. Bill DeFoe - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Old? > Heck. > I remember the SP 0-6-0 switcher doing the turn at Northrup across > Crenshaw. > I remember riding backseat in the family '40 Ford Tudor, heading > north to Lancaster on the Sierra Highway, dropping down out of the > hills, as the rail line came up on my side, and looking right into > the cab window of a Back-Up Mallet, which we paced all the way to > Lancaster.....

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4321	From: Mary Long	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam

Hey ! I was home on leave in 1966 , got to tour the EMD plant where my Dad worked . Saw the 645's on the test stands , some "X'' stuff for the proposed DD40's [?] . In 1955 I took the Prarie State out of CUT west to Linndale , watched the P motor hand over to the shiny J3 for the trip west to Toledo.Within a year steam was gone on NYC in Cleveland .So were the big electrics . Steam to Indiana , electrics to NY , NY . Hank H. curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Old? Heck. I remember the SP 0-6-0 switcher doing the turn at Northrup across Crenshaw. I remember riding backseat in the family '40 Ford Tudor, heading north to Lancaster on the Sierra Highway, dropping down out of the hills, as the rail line came up on my side, and looking right into the cab window of a Back-Up Mallet, which we paced all the way to Lancaster... .. I remember new Lockheed Constellations. ...and Super-Connies. ....flew over the house in Hawthorne all the time....and "Peacemakers" droning through the sky for what seemed like forever..... And everyday gas was 24.9, on a 16 gallon tank it was impossible to put $5 in it. Gas wars........ 19.9 a gallon. Full-serve premium (Ethyl!) was 34.9, if we saw 36.9, we drove on.... Water stops on the Grapevine... ... > > Want to feel OLD? Go the Illinois RR Museum in Union IL. They have a UP DDA40X in a MUSEUM! > > Don > > don.dellmann@ ... > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mary Long > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:45 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam > > > Gee , that's how fast it all happened as well . By 1958 all were gone in Ohio . Hank H. > > ckinzer@... wrote: > The book "Pacific Fast Mail... 25 Years of Fine Models" states that the first PFM catalog was the loose leaf version and calls it the 1st edition. It turns out this is incorrect. > > I recently got a copy of the 1st printed edition of the PFM catalog. It does not state an edition on it and the year is not stated but is almost certainly 1955 based on prices printed in it. It is identical in design to the 2nd and 3rd editions but simply doesn't state anything about the "edition". Starting with the 2nd printed edition, price lists were seperate. > > Also, the reason I wouldn't call the loose leaf a "1st edition" of the catalog is because sheets were continually sent to be added well after the first printed edition. The loose leaf seemed to be meant for dealers, although if you requested you could be put on a mailing list for update sheets. I have a 2nd edition printed catalog with a coupon bound into it that you would send with an SASE to get the next loose sheet - and a promise that with the next sheet you would get another coupon. > > There are a couple of other interesting things mentioned in that first PFM print catalog that underscore we are talking about a catalog over 50 years old now and, for some of us, we were actually contemporary when steam was still used. > > On the NYC Hudson page, it mentions "This model, representative of a fast passing age in railroading, creates a nostalgic effect,..." > On the USRA 0-8-0 page, it says "...is used on more railroads than any other design." > On the shay page, it says" "...some have worked over fifty years -- yet now they are fast disappearing. None have been built in the last several years." > > The 2nd edition has the same comments. > > Alas, by the 3rd edition we see... > For the NYC Hudson it says "...it was one of the most useful... > For the USRA 0-8-0 it says "It was widely used..." > For the shay it says "Now that they are almost extinct..." > > Chuck Kinzer >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4322	From: donvdh	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.

I don't have a compressor or blasting gun. Can anyone help me as far as advice on what to do or use? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4323	From: curmudgeon	Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.

Become friendly with the owner of a local automotive machine shop, and use theirs. > I don't have a compressor or blasting gun. Can anyone help me as far as advice on what to do or use? Don V. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4324	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.

If there's no plastic parts, I use laquer thinner.  On old plastic bodies I've had good luck with denatured alchohol solvent from the hardware store.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY   ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:17 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Stripping paint from metal engines, etc. I don't have a compressor or blasting gun. Can anyone help me as far as advice on what to do or use? Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4325	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.

Gerold I have stripped many brass models by cooking the bodys in a pot of detergent. (Automobile) brake fluid loosens most paints without attacking plastics. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4326	From: donvdh	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Thomas Ind. Tank Car

Attachments : For those of you who were talking about having \ collecting Thomas Ind. tank cars - eBay Item number: 330169777212 - THOMAS INDUSTRIES(VINTAGE)- D-X SUNRAY TANKER W/OB - NR $35.00 - Silver w\ Red lettering. Ends - Oct-02-07 17:13:04 PDT (1 day 17 hours) Thomas Industries(HO scale) D-X Sunray Oil Company Tanker Car Kit,car no.S.R.D.V. 55,item no.D-701,a 1950's release,we believe, with the original box and instructions. This is a metal kit and it comes with a pre-painted and decorated body,trucks and lots of detail parts. It is a old stock,new in box condition piece. The original box is in excellent condition and complete. We checked this kit for completeness but as always we only offer unbuilt kits as non-returnable items.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4327	From: jay matz	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.

Paint and varnish remover, the kind that is thick that you put on with a brush  let it soak then take it off with water. i have been using this for years. works good. Jay donvdh <donvdh@...> wrote: I don't have a compressor or blasting gun. Can anyone help me as far as advice on what to do or use? Don V. Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4328	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.

My standard is an acetone bath, and when that fails, regular paint stripper. Use gloves- ones that will withstand the acetone or lacquer thinner (not all the cheap ones do). Taking your models to the local body shop for blasting should be a very cautionary exercise. My one experience doing this resulted in the full destruction (yes) of one brass locomotive and two brass passenger cars when the blaster, inexperienced in blasting such small delicate items, used too high air pressure in his blast cabinet. To his credit, without quibbling, he handed over a check for full replacement value along with the ruined models. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4329	From: Mary Long	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.

Hi , Denny . I've got a question . I've used acetone before , but ran into a problem with AHM or Mehono paint being almost bulletproof . The paint on tender shells really gave me fits , wouldn't budge . Suggestions ? Other than blasting ! Hank H Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: My standard is an acetone bath, and when that fails, regular paint stripper. Use gloves- ones that will withstand the acetone or lacquer thinner (not all the cheap ones do). Taking your models to the local body shop for blasting should be a very cautionary exercise. My one experience doing this resulted in the full destruction (yes) of one brass locomotive and two brass passenger cars when the blaster, inexperienced in blasting such small delicate items, used too high air pressure in his blast cabinet. To his credit, without quibbling, he handed over a check for full replacement value along with the ruined models. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4330	From: jay matz	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.

Mary For plastic I use Parsons Cleaner get it at  Wall Mart It is better than top Job If that doesn't work I use Polly S Easy-Lift-Off # 542143 made by Floquil for plastic. I heat the parsons in the microwave for 2 to 3 minuets then put the plastic cars in takes the paint off, sometimes I use the ultrasonic cleaner. Jay Mary Long <long95209@...> wrote: Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4331	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.

Hi Gentleman,   May I stress one thing when stripping paint from plastic. many of these chemicals will harm the plastic as you know, even some of the ones that are made for plastics. These different plastics are made up of many different compounds and will react differently on some, then on others. So I say, test a spot on the inside of the tender shell or some other place before using it on the surface that will be seen. If the plastic starts to graze, don't get any more on the part. Try something else. Many a good model has been ruined by the wrong paint remover.   I use a spray-able heavy duty paint stripper from the local Home Depot for stripping die-cast and brass engines, but they must be stripped of any parts that cannot tolerate the hash chemicals.   Regards, Brian See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4332	From: sean naylor	Date: 10/3/2007
Subject: Ping to Hank!

Hey Hank!   Take a look at what I have listed this week!  I found a nearly complete 67 Fastback Mustang practically in my backyard this past Sunday and talked the guy into selling it to me for $2,300. I pulled some of my core collection pieces and listed them this week. I will hate to see some of them go.. Keeping that Mantua Atlantic though..   Sean Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4333	From: donvdh	Date: 10/3/2007
Subject: Re: Ping to Hank!

I have already. You also mentioned the Mustang on either vintageho or yardbirdclassictrains. That's one of the reasons I sent your money back instead of trying to figure out what was and what wasn't going. I wish you'd asked me about the  brass centipede tender first before listing it. That's exactly what I've been looking for to put behind my Challengers. You want to pull it as no longer available I'll pay your price. If you pull the centipede tender I'll pay you right now for both the tender and the box cars. I'd love to be able to buy the 4-8-4 but it's beyond my means. Do you want me to send you some of my plastic stuff that we were talking about? We'll figure out the costs again and you pay me what we agree on after you've sold them. I can't offer you a better deal than that I don't believe.  Our agreed upon purchase price, held on account until you've been paid, then you pay me. You just pay the shipping now. Let me know ASAP. I'm ready to go to FedEx and get this stuff out of my way. I can just box everything up, make a complete list while I'm doing it and we can price it later. You could have the boxes by Tuesday latest if I hustle. Don     ----- Original Message ----- From: sean naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Ping to Hank! Hey Hank!   Take a look at what I have listed this week!  I found a nearly complete 67 Fastback Mustang practically in my backyard this past Sunday and talked the guy into selling it to me for $2,300. I pulled some of my core collection pieces and listed them this week. I will hate to see some of them go.. Keeping that Mantua Atlantic though..   Sean Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4334	From: Mary Long	Date: 10/3/2007
Subject: Re: Ping to Hank!

Sean ! Yeah buddy ! Roger that , I've got the proper people on board , myself included . Good luck with this auction , Godspeed . Hank H. sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: Hey Hank!   Take a look at what I have listed this week!  I found a nearly complete 67 Fastback Mustang practically in my backyard this past Sunday and talked the guy into selling it to me for $2,300. I pulled some of my core collection pieces and listed them this week. I will hate to see some of them go.. Keeping that Mantua Atlantic though..   Sean Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4335	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

In at least two of the AristoCraft Ads in Model Railroader in 1962 there is a prototype photo shown of a standard gauge Mason Bogie 0-4- 4t. It is listed in the ads as arriving in November of 1962. Does anyone know if this model ever actually was produced? I have been collecting Aristo locos for a number of years and (a) had never even noticed that loco in the advertisements until last night and (b) have never seen one or heard of one until now. Curious in Georgia Matt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4336	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

Attachments : Hi Matt, I can't answer your question regarding the production of these model, however, I have attached a full size 1962 catalog sheet for the model. Note the lower left of the page claims a delivery in 1963.   Regards, Brian See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4337	From: cnj999	Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

Ah, yes, the Aristo Mason Bogie! Matt, I collected Aristo HO locos for years (wrote about them in RMC, too)and never saw any indication that the 0-4-4T Mason Bogie actually existed, even though I was always carefully on the lookout for one. However, I will note that Polks Hobbies did import some extremely small batches of Japanese brass locomotives (over-runs of other importers orders perhaps?) on occasion. I have a Long Island 2-8-0 camelback of such origin, one done officially for Smart Products. Of the few verifiable other examples of this loco I've seen, some actually appear cobbled together with other Aristo loco parts. One had a fireman's shelter and the tender from their cheapy 0-4-0 camelback switcher put together to complete the model! So, if the Mason Bogie was ever a real product, which I seriously doubt, it might have have existed as only one a dozen or two examples. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4338	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.

Well, keeping the subject only as refers to metal (do not even think plastic), acetone does not always work on some locomotives and cars, the reason why I never can figure out. Sometimes one car in a "set" will strip by just looking at it, while the next car will sit in the bath an hour and be absolutely resistant to my ministrations. That is when I get out the standard paint remover and go at it with a stiff brush. Like making sausage, it is never a pretty sight, nor a pleasant job. Even then, one occasionally comes up against something that no solvent or other liquid product commonly available to us mortals will work. That is when the blast cabinet (if you have one) comes in- and even then it can be a laborious process (not to mention the expense of the investment). Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4339	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: mystery passenger cars - was: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

cnj999 wrote: >Ah, yes, the Aristo Mason Bogie! > >Matt, I collected Aristo HO locos for years (wrote about them in RMC, >too)and never saw any indication that the 0-4-4T Mason Bogie actually >existed, even though I was always carefully on the lookout for one. > >However, I will note that Polks Hobbies did import some extremely small >batches of Japanese brass locomotives (over-runs of other importers >orders perhaps?) on occasion. I have a Long Island 2-8-0 camelback of >such origin, one done officially for Smart Products. Of the few >verifiable other examples of this loco I've seen, some actually appear >cobbled together with other Aristo loco parts. One had a fireman's >shelter and the tender from their cheapy 0-4-0 camelback switcher put >together to complete the model! > >So, if the Mason Bogie was ever a real product, which I seriously >doubt, it might have have existed as only one a dozen or two examples. > >CNJ999 > > > > Was puzzled by the Aristo Mason for a long time too, good somebody brought up this topic. I have collected Aristo for years, never have seen one. - You mention Smart products - they are not present in the usual magazine ads and reviews ... but have bought some old time passenger cars in Germany last year which are supposed to be Smart Products.This are the models produced by Takara and featured in International ads of the early sixties. Noticed a combination caboose on ebay - yes , I was outbid!! - anybody out there who knows more about this car? Looks a little like an early Exacta, but thats a wild guess only. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220154153051 Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4340	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

My thanks to you and Gerold for the information! I am certainly not in your league for collecting and knowledge but have been watching eBay and swap meets for years and never saw one of the Bogies. For that matter, I have never seen one of the Texas 4-4-0s although I have seen photos of the model, which indicates it was produced. And speaking of brass variants produced under various associated labels, I have a couple of variations on the 2-8-0, including the all brass "Ma & Pa" version that was supposedly the transition model of "The New One" die casting cooperative in Tokyo when it changed over to become Tenshodo and began producing all brass models for PFM. I don't know how accurate that history is, I got it from a guy who used to work for PFM but is now deceased. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cnj999" <jbortle@...> wrote: > > Ah, yes, the Aristo Mason Bogie! > > Matt, I collected Aristo HO locos for years (wrote about them in RMC, > too)and never saw any indication that the 0-4-4T Mason Bogie actually > existed, even though I was always carefully on the lookout for one. > > However, I will note that Polks Hobbies did import some extremely small > batches of Japanese brass locomotives (over-runs of other importers > orders perhaps?) on occasion. I have a Long Island 2-8-0 camelback of > such origin, one done officially for Smart Products. Of the few > verifiable other examples of this loco I've seen, some actually appear > cobbled together with other Aristo loco parts. One had a fireman's > shelter and the tender from their cheapy 0-4-0 camelback switcher put > together to complete the model! > > So, if the Mason Bogie was ever a real product, which I seriously > doubt, it might have have existed as only one a dozen or two examples. > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4341	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] mystery passenger cars - was: Aristo Craft HO

Gerold,   It looks like a English/Penn-Line/Varney/Life-Like combine with the vestibule sections cut off to make the open platforms, a caboose copula spliced into the roof and caboose ends added to the car ends.  The side window pattern is exactly the same as the combine’s, as are the rivet lines and underbody. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Gerold Eckl Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 2:52 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] mystery passenger cars - was: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason   cnj999 wrote: >Ah, yes, the Aristo Mason Bogie! > >Matt, I collected Aristo HO locos for years (wrote about them in RMC, >too)and never saw any indication that the 0-4-4T Mason Bogie actually >existed, even though I was always carefully on the lookout for one. > >However, I will note that Polks Hobbies did import some extremely small >batches of Japanese brass locomotives (over-runs of other importers >orders perhaps?) on occasion. I have a Long Island 2-8-0 camelback of >such origin, one done officially for Smart Products. Of the few >verifiable other examples of this loco I've seen, some actually appear >cobbled together with other Aristo loco parts. One had a fireman's >shelter and the tender from their cheapy 0-4-0 camelback switcher put >together to complete the model! > >So, if the Mason Bogie was ever a real product, which I seriously >doubt, it might have have existed as only one a dozen or two examples. > >CNJ999 > > > > Was puzzled by the Aristo Mason for a long time too, good somebody brought up this topic. I have collected Aristo for years, never have seen one. - You mention Smart products - they are not present in the usual magazine ads and reviews ... but have bought some old time passenger cars in Germany last year which are supposed to be Smart Products.This are the models produced by Takara and featured in International ads of the early sixties. Noticed a combination caboose on ebay - yes , I was outbid!! - anybody out there who knows more about this car? Looks a little like an early Exacta, but thats a wild guess only. http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& rd=1&item= 220154153051 Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4342	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

Brian, Thanks for the catalog sheet but I am afraid that Yahoo stripped it off. They don't allow attachments. But I appreciate the information on the new delivery date -- it is clear that it was a project that was being "pushed to the right" as we used to say in the factory. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bslook@... wrote: > > Hi Matt, I can't answer your question regarding the production of these > model, however, I have attached a full size 1962 catalog sheet for the model. > Note the lower left of the page claims a delivery in 1963. > > Regards, Brian > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4343	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

FWIW, it wasn't Yahoo that stripped the attachment, it was your ISP, I saw it here fine. As a point of information, I DO allow attachments here, but only .jpg files. Anything else needs to be posted in the files section on the group home page. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 5:56 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason > Brian, > > Thanks for the catalog sheet but I am afraid that Yahoo stripped it > off. They don't allow attachments. But I appreciate the information on > the new delivery date -- it is clear that it was a project that was > being "pushed to the right" as we used to say in the factory. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bslook@... wrote: >> >> Hi Matt, I can't answer your question regarding the production of > these >> model, however, I have attached a full size 1962 catalog sheet for > the model. >> Note the lower left of the page claims a delivery in 1963. >> >> Regards, Brian >> >> >> >> ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4344	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

Matt, >My thanks to you and Gerold for the information! I am certainly not in >your league for collecting and knowledge but have been watching eBay >and swap meets for years and never saw one of the Bogies. For that >matter, I have never seen one of the Texas 4-4-0s although I have seen >photos of the model, which indicates it was produced. > > The Texas shows up on ebay sometimes... have several pics on file, may send them off list if you wish. >And speaking of brass variants produced under various associated >labels, I have a couple of variations on the 2-8-0, including the all >brass "Ma & Pa" version that was supposedly the transition model of >"The New One" die casting cooperative in Tokyo when it changed over to >become Tenshodo and began producing all brass models for PFM. > > Think the story is more complicated - there were and still are many companys and subcontractors , which cooperated to produce brass models, cast, wood and tinplate kits. New One still sold cast models long after Tenshodo appeared on the US scene, it might be the initiative of International who felt cast locos might be no longer in demand. They had a sale of cast locos then, apparently they could not sell them any more BTW, I think I remember some identical models ( freight car kits) were sold in either Tenshodo, New One or Suzuki & Edwards boxes. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4345	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] mystery passenger cars - was: Aristo Craft HO

Chuck Higdon wrote: > Gerold, > > It looks like a English/Penn-Line/Varney/Life-Like combine with the > vestibule sections cut off to make the open platforms, a caboose > copula spliced into the roof and caboose ends added to the car ends. > The side window pattern is exactly the same as the combine’s, as are > the rivet lines and underbody. > > Take care, > Chuck, How embarrassing - I should be able to recognice an English Combine ..... glad I was only second best. Thanks Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4346	From: tcol@toast.net	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle

Local friend, a tinplate enthusiast, received about 6 or so brass locos from a friend who had them stored, unpainted since original purchases. I was asked to get them in running shape. One that I had to tune up was a United Models, Union Pacific 0-6-0, that had been poorly stored (half was covered in green crud) for some 40 plus years. Thought I had it running well until it locked up. Discovered the problem was the first driver's cast wheel was suffering from zamac rot causing the wheel to swell outward and catch on the side rod and lock up. I gently ground down the swelling only then to have both the wheel and tire come off the axle. Thought I had this fixed but because of damage was unable to get the wheel squarely on the axle. The result is a wobble that causes the wheel to rub against the outside of the rail resulting in a somewhat hopping motion down the track. I dare not try further attempts to square up the axle and wheel for fear of having the whole drive wheel turn to zamac dust. Friend is resigned to having this 0-6-0 a display model. Anyone know of a replacement source and possible costs (would prefer whole wheel/axle assemble)? Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4347	From: jay matz	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle

Ray Check Northwest Shortline for drivers and axles. Jay tcol@... wrote: Local friend, a tinplate enthusiast, received about 6 or so brass locos from a friend who had them stored, unpainted since original purchases. I was asked to get them in running shape. One that I had to tune up was a United Models, Union Pacific 0-6-0, that had been poorly stored (half was covered in green crud) for some 40 plus years. Thought I had it running well until it locked up. Discovered the problem was the first driver's cast wheel was suffering from zamac rot causing the wheel to swell outward and catch on the side rod and lock up. I gently ground down the swelling only then to have both the wheel and tire come off the axle. Thought I had this fixed but because of damage was unable to get the wheel squarely on the axle. The result is a wobble that causes the wheel to rub against the outside of the rail resulting in a somewhat hopping motion down the track. I dare not try further attempts to square up the axle and wheel for fear of having the whole drive wheel turn to zamac dust. Friend is resigned to having this 0-6-0 a display model. Anyone know of a replacement source and possible costs (would prefer whole wheel/axle assemble)? Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine] Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4348	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle

You could switch over to Bowser steam drivers....... They have all the parts for their line of steamers...... and a downloadable catalog and price lists. Here's their 0-6-0 kit........ http://bowser-trains.com/holocos/B-6/B6.htm If the 56" drivers look right ......... If not, they have several more sizes and types....... If the right size, you might like to replace the two un-geared wheel- sets on the model without having to replace the geared axle on the model. If not just the right type, the real roads had updated and miss-matched sets on their steamers as enough re-building went into an engine. Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Oct 6, 2007, at 11:39 AM, tcol@... wrote: > Local friend, a tinplate enthusiast, received about 6 or so brass > locos > from a friend who had them stored, unpainted since original > purchases. I > was asked to get them in running shape. > > One that I had to tune up was a United Models, Union Pacific > 0-6-0, that > had been poorly stored (half was covered in green crud) for some 40 > plus > years. Thought I had it running well until it locked up. > Discovered the > problem was the first driver's cast wheel was suffering from zamac rot > causing the wheel to swell outward and catch on the side rod and > lock up. > > I gently ground down the swelling only then to have both the wheel > and tire > come off the axle. Thought I had this fixed but because of damage was > unable to get the wheel squarely on the axle. The result is a > wobble that > causes the wheel to rub against the outside of the rail resulting in a > somewhat hopping motion down the track. > > I dare not try further attempts to square up the axle and wheel for > fear of > having the whole drive wheel turn to zamac dust. Friend is > resigned to > having this 0-6-0 a display model. > > Anyone know of a replacement source and possible costs (would > prefer whole > wheel/axle assemble)?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4349	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle

Depending on how much he requires absolute fidelity to the original, your friend may wish to replace all 3 drivers with new ones.  I am not sure, but will guess that these are 51 inch drivers and if yes, these kind are available all over.  The centers may not be exactly what you want and certainly some work will need to be done to replace the gears, but you may want to think about it.  Mantua drivers are usually found on eBay and may even be able to be purchased new from Model Power.  Bowser has lots of different drivers, including 50/51 inch.  Also Greenway products has some brass replacement drivers.  All of these manufacturers have web sites. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: HO_Brass@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: tcol@... From: tcol@... Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:39:34 -0400 Subject: [vintageHO] Replacement steam driver wheel/axle Local friend, a tinplate enthusiast, received about 6 or so brass locos from a friend who had them stored, unpainted since original purchases. I was asked to get them in running shape. One that I had to tune up was a United Models, Union Pacific 0-6-0, that had been poorly stored (half was covered in green crud) for some 40 plus years. Thought I had it running well until it locked up. Discovered the problem was the first driver's cast wheel was suffering from zamac rot causing the wheel to swell outward and catch on the side rod and lock up. I gently ground down the swelling only then to have both the wheel and tire come off the axle. Thought I had this fixed but because of damage was unable to get the wheel squarely on the axle. The result is a wobble that causes the wheel to rub against the outside of the rail resulting in a somewhat hopping motion down the track. I dare not try further attempts to square up the axle and wheel for fear of having the whole drive wheel turn to zamac dust. Friend is resigned to having this 0-6-0 a display model. Anyone know of a replacement source and possible costs (would prefer whole wheel/axle assemble)? Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine] Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! Try now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4350	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Replacement steam driver wheel/axle > You could switch over to Bowser steam drivers....... > > They have all the parts for their line of steamers...... and a > downloadable catalog and price lists. > > Here's their 0-6-0 kit........ > http://bowser-trains.com/holocos/B-6/B6.htm > > If the 56" drivers look right ......... If not, they have several > more sizes and types....... > > If the right size, you might like to replace the two un-geared wheel- > sets on the model without having to replace the geared axle on the > model. If not just the right type, the real roads had updated and > miss-matched sets on their steamers as enough re-building went into > an engine. > > Best to Ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi I second that, don't be afraid of switching drivers if you're looking for a running engine. One of the nicest running brass steamers I have ever had the pleasure to operate was a Ken Kidder LS&MS 4-6-0 that had been re-drivered with the drivers off a Mantua Pacific. Looked good and ran like a swiss watch. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4351	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle

Hi Ray, try Greenway products for a set of replacement drivers. regards, Brian   http://www.greenwayproducts.com/a_drivers.shtml See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4352	From: cnj999	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Boxcar Builder ID?

I've seen more than a few pieces of vintage rolling stock over my years of collecting but I picked up one recently that has me puzzled as to just who made it and when. It appears to represent a standard 1937 AAR 40' steel boxcar, with Youngstown corrugated doors and 4/5 ribbed ends. Painted a deep boxcar red, it carries the Central Railroad of New Jersey's old (pre 1943 - before the statue of liberty design was adopted) arched logo. It is numbered 21671 and has a Blt date of 9-37, all apparently pad-printed onto the car. Here's the catch for me - except for the plastic roofwalk, the entire car is diecast: floor, sides, ends and roof. The doors are thin castings as well and operate. Such details as ladders, brake wheel mechanism and air valve are cast on. Likewise, the underbody is highly detailed, with innumerable rivets, support cross members, etc. The car rides on full equalized trucks. The only identifying mark I can find anywhere on the car or its trucks is "FB-101" cast in tiny raised letters on the floor. It came equipped with metal horn-hook couplers but it looks like the coupler boxes were add-ons and not original to the car. It's a nicely rendered car which, after cleaning and some touch-up, will enter service on my layout. I seem to vaguely recall MDC offering a car that looked like this one, way back when (1950's?), but don't remember it as being all diecast. Anybody recognize the car from my description? CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4353	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Strombecker RI Rocket

There is a completed set on eBay at http://cgi.ebay.com/Rock-Island-Rocket-Train-Kit-Assembled-Varney-Kit > -Msc_W0QQitemZ190159908395QQihZ009QQcategoryZ38278QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. The item number issize="-2" color="#000000"> 190159908395. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4354	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Boxcar Builder ID?

Attachments : Hi CNJ999, It sounds like a MDC car.  Here is a photo of one with out the unpainted parts painted.  And yes, I see that I need to clean it some, that white powder can not be good.   Does your look like this one?   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of cnj999 Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 8:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Boxcar Builder ID?   I've seen more than a few pieces of vintage rolling stock over my years of collecting but I picked up one recently that has me puzzled as to just who made it and when. It appears to represent a standard 1937 AAR 40' steel boxcar, with Youngstown corrugated doors and 4/5 ribbed ends. Painted a deep boxcar red, it carries the Central Railroad of New Jersey's old (pre 1943 - before the statue of liberty design was adopted) arched logo. It is numbered 21671 and has a Blt date of 9-37, all apparently pad-printed onto the car. Here's the catch for me - except for the plastic roofwalk, the entire car is diecast: floor, sides, ends and roof. The doors are thin castings as well and operate. Such details as ladders, brake wheel mechanism and air valve are cast on. Likewise, the underbody is highly detailed, with innumerable rivets, support cross members, etc. The car rides on full equalized trucks. The only identifying mark I can find anywhere on the car or its trucks is "FB-101" cast in tiny raised letters on the floor. It came equipped with metal horn-hook couplers but it looks like the coupler boxes were add-ons and not original to the car. It's a nicely rendered car which, after cleaning and some touch-up, will enter service on my layout. I seem to vaguely recall MDC offering a car that looked like this one, way back when (1950's?), but don't remember it as being all diecast. Anybody recognize the car from my description? CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4355	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle

Be careful when switching drivers between brass imports and American built models like Bowser or Roundhouse. The brass imports use 3mm axles while the American locomotives use 1/8" axles. The American axles will be too tight unless you bore out the bearings, and putting imported brass drivers in an American loco will result in so much slop you will never get it to run right. The best solution for repairing the PFM/United UP 0-6-0 is to find a set of Samhungsa drivers, keeping the 3mm axles as original. I bought some 51" Samhongsa drivers back around 1990 from a dealer at a Greenberg show. Sorry I can't tell you of a current supplier. Bill DeFoe - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:52 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Replacement steam driver wheel/axle > > > > You could switch over to Bowser steam drivers....... > > > > They have all the parts for their line of steamers...... and a > > downloadable catalog and price lists. > > > > Here's their 0-6-0 kit........ > > http://bowser-trains.com/holocos/B-6/B6.htm > > > > If the 56" drivers look right ......... If not, they have several > > more sizes and types....... > > > > If the right size, you might like to replace the two un-geared wheel- > > sets on the model without having to replace the geared axle on the > > model. If not just the right type, the real roads had updated and > > miss-matched sets on their steamers as enough re-building went into > > an engine. > > > > Best to Ya, > > Mike Bauers > > Milwaukee, Wi > > I second that, don't be afraid of switching drivers if you're looking for a > running engine. One of the nicest running brass steamers I have ever had > the pleasure to operate was a Ken Kidder LS&MS 4-6-0 that had been > re-drivered with the drivers off a Mantua Pacific. Looked good and ran like > a swiss watch. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4356	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Boxcar Builder ID?

Attachments : I'm also sure it is an MDC Roundhouse car.  I have some unbuilt ones and the floor casting has "FB-101" cast into it.  However, the kits have metal roofwalks.  The kit builder may have changed to a plastic roofwalk instead, or perhaps MDC changed to plastic at some point?   The label on the box shows:   "B-112                        2.70" "HO 40' METAL SHEATH BOX CAR KIT" "CRP, Jersey Central" "WITH TRUCK KIT"   The instructions are dated 1954.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:16 PM Subject: RE: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Boxcar Builder ID? Hi CNJ999, It sounds like a MDC car.  Here is a photo of one with out the unpainted parts painted.  And yes, I see that I need to clean it some, that white powder can not be good. Does your look like this one? Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of cnj999 Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 8:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Boxcar Builder ID? I've seen more than a few pieces of vintage rolling stock over my years of collecting but I picked up one recently that has me puzzled as to just who made it and when. It appears to represent a standard 1937 AAR 40' steel boxcar, with Youngstown corrugated doors and 4/5 ribbed ends. Painted a deep boxcar red, it carries the Central Railroad of New Jersey's old (pre 1943 - before the statue of liberty design was adopted) arched logo. It is numbered 21671 and has a Blt date of 9-37, all apparently pad-printed onto the car. Here's the catch for me - except for the plastic roofwalk, the entire car is diecast: floor, sides, ends and roof. The doors are thin castings as well and operate. Such details as ladders, brake wheel mechanism and air valve are cast on. Likewise, the underbody is highly detailed, with innumerable rivets, support cross members, etc. The car rides on full equalized trucks. The only identifying mark I can find anywhere on the car or its trucks is "FB-101" cast in tiny raised letters on the floor. It came equipped with metal horn-hook couplers but it looks like the coupler boxes were add-ons and not original to the car. It's a nicely rendered car which, after cleaning and some touch-up, will enter service on my layout. I seem to vaguely recall MDC offering a car that looked like this one, way back when (1950's?), but don't remember it as being all diecast. Anybody recognize the car from my description? CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4357	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle

Yup........ Be prudent and check what axle size you will need. As best as I know, bushings are available to put on 3mm shafts to fit in 1/8 inch bearing slots [NWSL or a friend with a lathe]. So those smaller axles can be adapted to fit the larger holed frames. You'll notice that Don Dellmann posts below that some time ago he re- drivered an import Ken Kidder brass steamer with domestic Tyco/Mantua 1/8 inch axled drivers. So don't expect all older imports to use the 3 mm axles. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Oct 6, 2007, at 8:18 PM, CinderCrusher wrote: > Be careful when switching drivers between brass imports and American > built models like Bowser or Roundhouse. The brass imports use 3mm > axles while the American locomotives use 1/8" axles. The American > axles will be too tight unless you bore out the bearings, and putting > imported brass drivers in an American loco will result in so much > slop you will never get it to run right. > > The best solution for repairing the PFM/United UP 0-6-0 is to find a > set of Samhungsa drivers, keeping the 3mm axles as original. I > bought some 51" Samhongsa drivers back around 1990 from a dealer at a > Greenberg show. Sorry I can't tell you of a current supplier. > > Bill DeFoe > > > - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Bauers" >> >>> You could switch over to Bowser steam drivers....... >>> >>> They have all the parts for their line of steamers...... and a >>> downloadable catalog and price lists. >>> >>> Here's their 0-6-0 kit........ >>> http://bowser-trains.com/holocos/B-6/B6.htm >>> >>> If the 56" drivers look right ......... If not, they have several >>> more sizes and types....... >>> >>> If the right size, you might like to replace the two un-geared > wheel- >>> sets on the model without having to replace the geared axle on the >>> model. If not just the right type, the real roads had updated and >>> miss-matched sets on their steamers as enough re-building went > into >>> an engine. >> >> don.dellmann@... wrote.... >> I second that, don't be afraid of switching drivers if you're > looking for a >> running engine. One of the nicest running brass steamers I have > ever had >> the pleasure to operate was a Ken Kidder LS&MS 4-6-0 that had been >> re-drivered with the drivers off a Mantua Pacific. Looked good and > ran like >> a swiss watch.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4358	From: cnj999	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Smart Brass Locos - was: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> wrote: > > - You (CNJ999) mention Smart products - they are not present in the usual > magazine ads and reviews ... but have bought some old time passenger > cars in Germany last year which are supposed to be Smart Products.This > are the models produced by Takara and featured in International ads of > the early sixties. > > Gerold > Yes, Smart was largely below the radar, even in its own day. Like a few other outfits (Model Express immediately comes to mind) they seemed to have dealth with other importer's over-runs or perhaps extras producted by the builders and unwanted/declared excess by the original importer. Re the LIRR 2-8-0 camelback, I remember International and one other well known importer offering it simultaneously (the models differed ever so slightly, largely by one having a solid boiler and the other only a front and rear half, joined with an empty cab). After they were through, Smart appeared with its offering, very briefly (one MR ad?), which was the identical model to one or the other of the originals. Same was true re Aristo but they had several MR adds. I don't recall Smart being in business for more than a couple of years and unless they happened to offer something you were specifically interested in, most folks probably didn't know they existed at all. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4359	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1040

On 7 Oct 2007 Bill Defoe wrote: >3g. Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle >Be careful when switching drivers between brass imports and American >built models like Bowser or Roundhouse. The brass imports use 3mm >axles while the American locomotives use 1/8" axles. The American >axles will be too tight unless you bore out the bearings, and putting >imported brass drivers in an American loco will result in so much >slop you will never get it to run right. Thanks for the reply as well as all the others who replied to this question. Good point and yes...I am well aware of the differences (spent 3 years in Japan in the mid-60s)...one other difference is the side rod screws on imports are metric while U.S. ones, at least early era (50s and 60s), are not. I have a small vial of U.S. side rod screws...no idea when or where I got them but they are labeled 1/16" whatever that really means. Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4360	From: cnj999	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

Thanks, guys, for definitely IDing the old, all cast, CRRofNJ boxcar. I had a suspicion that it could have been by MDC but just couldn't recall if their early stuff was a mix of cast and stamped sheet brass, or all solid castings. And yes, I agree, making these diecast cars from kits, way back when, was a bear. Even so, when completed by someone with a little modeling talent, they looked as good or better plying the rails than a lot of the low-end plastic stuff made right up through the 1990's! CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4361	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

----- Original Message ----- From: "cnj999" <jbortle@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Boxcar Builder ID? > I've seen more than a few pieces of vintage rolling stock over my years > of collecting but I picked up one recently that has me puzzled as to > just who made it and when. > > It appears to represent a standard 1937 AAR 40' steel boxcar, with > Youngstown corrugated doors and 4/5 ribbed ends. Painted a deep boxcar > red, it carries the Central Railroad of New Jersey's old (pre 1943 - > before the statue of liberty design was adopted) arched logo. It is > numbered 21671 and has a Blt date of 9-37, all apparently pad-printed > onto the car. > > Here's the catch for me - except for the plastic roofwalk, the entire > car is diecast: floor, sides, ends and roof. The doors are thin > castings as well and operate. Such details as ladders, brake wheel > mechanism and air valve are cast on. Likewise, the underbody is highly > detailed, with innumerable rivets, support cross members, etc. The car > rides on full equalized trucks. The only identifying mark I can find > anywhere on the car or its trucks is "FB-101" cast in tiny raised > letters on the floor. It came equipped with metal horn-hook couplers > but it looks like the coupler boxes were add-ons and not original to > the car. It's a nicely rendered car which, after cleaning and some > touch-up, will enter service on my layout. > > I seem to vaguely recall MDC offering a car that looked like this one, > way back when (1950's?), but don't remember it as being all diecast. > Anybody recognize the car from my description? > > CNJ999 That is an MDC die cast metal kit, kit no. B-109. I don't know when they were first produced, my oldest catalog is dated 1953, the newest reference I can find is ads in MR ca. 1959. If the original cast in coupler pockets are still there, it will take a Kadee No. 4. The plastic roofwalk is definitely an "add-on" by a previous owner, the cars came with metal roofwalks. The catalog says the ends and roof can be either tuscan red or black. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4362	From: herb1013	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Keystone HO Exclusive Train Set

Boscovs has a limites edition train set on sale $59.99. Only 900 sets made also 20 to 50% off all train products. Herb http://www.boscovs.com/StoreFrontWeb/Product.bos?itemNumber=20398&rch=Y&type=Product&searchText=20398

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4363	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Keystone HO Exclusive Train Set

Please note "non-vintage" for sale posts are off topic here.   Thanks   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: herb1013 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ; HOrailroading@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 7:19 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Keystone HO Exclusive Train Set

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4364	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

Don, Thanks for the info. I get the postings from this list in the Digest and that seems to be the problem. You just explained a couple of other things about Yahoo in your post so my thanks for the in-depth response. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > FWIW, it wasn't Yahoo that stripped the attachment, it was your ISP, I saw > it here fine. As a point of information, I DO allow attachments here, but > only .jpg files. Anything else needs to be posted in the files section on > the group home page. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4365	From: herb1013	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Keystone HO Exclusive Train Set

Sorry Don I thought some members might like a good  deal.            Herb

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4366	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason

----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 7:52 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason > Don, > > Thanks for the info. I get the postings from this list in the Digest > and that seems to be the problem. You just explained a couple of other > things about Yahoo in your post so my thanks for the in-depth response. > > Matt OhHo! Digest mode! That IS the problem. Yahoo doesn't store the attachments, you have to get "daily e-mails" inorder to see them. That's why I suggest anything you want to save be put on the website, photos (.jpg only) in the photo albums, other files in the files section. If you do that though, PLEASE let the rest of us know it's there. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4367	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/12/2007
Subject: search

Hi.  Thanks for letting me back on board.  I'm currently looking for an original Athearn RDC power truck   This is for the metal version--before the Hi-F drive.  It has a vertical-shaft motor and a string of gears to power the second axle.    Thanks--Glenn Joesten

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4368	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Latest roster adds.

Attachments : Got a couple more Varney F-3's running, one plastic B unit, bought on eBay, after I bought it found out the seller was a list member. I hope he isn't mad that it isn't UP anymore :-) Also got a box of "junque" from a friend at a pretty good prive, in amongst the treasures was a DIECAST F-3 (Finally!), the motor was pretty well burnt up, but in the same box was an original Hobbytown of Boston F unit drive, that with a little work I got running fairly nicely. The Original owner had cut out the openings for the number boards, I couldn't find anything to fit, so I puttied them in (JB Weld is actually pretty good stuff for filler) and put on the older side mount F unit number boards from Cal Scale. Other news, after a year of fiddling I finally came up with some rubber bands that were just about right for the Bobbyline H-10-44, last weekend she finally motivated down the track under her own power. Thinking I was home free, I took everything apart, cleaned it up, lubed with labelle racing oil (my favor8ite plastic compatible lube), put it back together, she ran about 20 feet and the motor got so hot one of the power leads came unsoldered. Well, back to the drawing board. Other than that, not too much happening here, have some Varney embossed heavyweight car sides coming, will have to go back to Walthers for some clerestory roof stock. That ought to keep me out of trouble for a little while. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4369	From: curmudgeon	Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Re: Latest roster adds.

One thing I noticed n the plastic F-3's I had to rebuild for my brother. The dummy frame was virtually impossible to get correct coupler height out of. The frame was badly warped in the middle. I laid brass angles on top, drilled, tapped the brass 2-56, clearanced the frame, screwed it together, and warp gone, couplers worked. I also HATED the parting lines in the top of the shells, had to file and repaint the roof. Also, on the "A" units, there is one horn cast in dead-center, BUT: There are 4 holes, two per side, partially drilled in from the bottom. When I filed off the parting line, I took off the single horn, drilled the blind holes through, and stuck a set of Athearn horns in. And, check your yahoo email, Don! Dave > Got a couple more Varney F-3's running, one plastic B unit, bought on eBay, > after I bought it found out the seller was a list member. I hope he isn't > mad that it isn't UP anymore :-) > > Also got a box of "junque" from a friend at a pretty good prive, in amongst > the treasures was a DIECAST F-3 (Finally!), the motor was pretty well burnt > up, but in the same box was an original Hobbytown of Boston F unit drive, > that with a little work I got running fairly nicely. The Original owner had > cut out the openings for the number boards, I couldn't find anything to fit, > so I puttied them in (JB Weld is actually pretty good stuff for filler) and > put on the older side mount F unit number boards from Cal Scale. > > Other news, after a year of fiddling I finally came up with some rubber > bands that were just about right for the Bobbyline H-10-44, last weekend she > finally motivated down the track under her own power. Thinking I was home > free, I took everything apart, cleaned it up, lubed with labelle racing oil > (my favor8ite plastic compatible lube), put it back together, she ran about > 20 feet and the motor got so hot one of the power leads came unsoldered. > Well, back to the drawing board. > > Other than that, not too much happening here, have some Varney embossed > heavyweight car sides coming, will have to go back to Walthers for some > clerestory roof stock. That ought to keep me out of trouble for a little > while. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4370	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Re: Latest roster adds.

If anyone has another Plastic Varney B unit--I'm looking for one--have a couple of spare A unit shells--I have an ABA to finish up--Die Cast powered AB, plastic dummy A, so I need a plastic dummy B to finish.  Also have a couple of sets with the same body configuration with Hobbytown Multi-Drive in the cast AB.    Wonder what happened to the dies for the plastic sprue in the Varney die-cast locos--does Bowser have it?  That would be great to have in clear plastic.  OR--how about the Scalelite number boards.  I have a Scalelite Mars Light kit to go in that Varney.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 3:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Latest roster adds. Got a couple more Varney F-3's running, one plastic B unit, bought on eBay, after I bought it found out the seller was a list member. I hope he isn't mad that it isn't UP anymore :-) .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4371	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Greenburg Varney book

I am working on a clinic for the local NMRA on the contributions of Gordon Varney to the hobby. Does anyone have the Greenburg Guide to Varney trains for sale at a reasonable price or, if you're in the Cleveland Ohio area, loan? The local library had a copy, but has disappeared. (not surprising I guess considering the current asking price on Ebay). Please bear with me. This is the first of what will be many requests for assistance. TIA Frank Bongiovanni bongiovanni1@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4372	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book(Aux info)

Sorry, I can't help with the Grenburg Book, but I remember that there is most or all of a chaprter about Gordon Varney in the book, "Model Railroading with John Allen" and that contains a fair amount of information as well as a few pics. Best of luck. BTW, I have had good luck(great off-topic story) getting difficult-to-find books through our old Bookmobile(which has been discontinued), but you library may have access to other libraries and you could order a "borrow" from there, Try their computer.   yours   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)   bongiovanni12001 <bongiovanni1@...> wrote: I am working on a clinic for the local NMRA on the contributions of Gordon Varney to the hobby. Does anyone have the Greenburg Guide to Varney trains for sale at a reasonable price or, if you're in the Cleveland Ohio area, loan? The local library had a copy, but has disappeared. (not surprising I guess considering the current asking price on Ebay). Please bear with me. This is the first of what will be many requests for assistance. TIA Frank Bongiovanni bongiovanni1@... Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4373	From: sean naylor	Date: 10/15/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book

Hello Frank, Dave Spanagel is the author of "Greenberg Guide to Varney Trains". I sold him a li'l joe which was turned into a yard-goat once before. I know he had posted one or two messages here sometime last year. You might try looking him up to see if he might be able to lead you to a source for the book. Good luck! Sean bongiovanni12001 <bongiovanni1@...> wrote: I am working on a clinic for the local NMRA on the contributions of Gordon Varney to the hobby. Does anyone have the Greenburg Guide to Varney trains for sale at a reasonable price or, if you're in the Cleveland Ohio area, loan? The local library had a copy, but has disappeared. (not surprising I guess considering the current asking price on Ebay). Please bear with me. This is the first of what will be many requests for assistance. TIA Frank Bongiovanni bongiovanni1@ hotmail.com Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4374	From: Garry	Date: 10/15/2007
Subject: For Sale PRR Passenger Cars: Assembled Older Kits

Here are four (4) built cars from older kits. One Megow and three Walthers. Built, painted, couplers added; ready to run. All have pictures. Excellent or better assembly. $6.00 shipping for the first car; $2.00 for each additional car. 1) Megow PRR P70gsr - kit from the 1930s - $50.00 A very rare car to find built, in good condition Original Megow PRR Trucks, correct truck. Changed car number. http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001a.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001b.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001c.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001d.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001e.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001f.jpg 2)Walthers (7605) - Pullman - 6 Section 6 Dbl. Bedroom - CV Trucks w/ CV Snap Pin Bolster - $50.00 - One of the Harder to find Walthers kits. http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ002a.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ002b.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ002c.jpg 3)Walthers (7811) - Pullman - 8 Sec 2 Compt 1 Dr - CV Trucks - Tissue paper painted roof. $50.00 http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003a.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003b.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003c.jpg 4)Walthers (7802) - Pullman - 12 Sec 1 Dr - CV Trucks - Full Interior - some people. $60.00 http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003a.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003b.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003c.jpg Willing to discuss offers. Please contact of list. gspear01 at erols dot com Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4375	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 10/15/2007
Subject: Re: For Sale PRR Passenger Cars: Assembled Older Kits

Some beautiful work!!  And nothing sounds as good as a train of these old cars with CV trucks rolling across the rail joints and switch frogs. . . .  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Garry Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 6:54 PM To: PRR Talk prr-talk@...; Vintage HO; PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com Cc: Ziesmer, Paul Subject: [vintageHO] For Sale PRR Passenger Cars: Assembled Older Kits   Here are four (4) built cars from older kits. One Megow and three Walthers. Built, painted, couplers added; ready to run. All have pictures. Excellent or better assembly. $6.00 shipping for the first car; $2.00 for each additional car. 1) Megow PRR P70gsr - kit from the 1930s - $50.00 A very rare car to find built, in good condition Original Megow PRR Trucks, correct truck. Changed car number. http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001a.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001b.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001c.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001d.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001e.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ001f.jpg 2)Walthers (7605) - Pullman - 6 Section 6 Dbl. Bedroom - CV Trucks w/ CV Snap Pin Bolster - $50.00 - One of the Harder to find Walthers kits. http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ002a.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ002b.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ002c.jpg 3)Walthers (7811) - Pullman - 8 Sec 2 Compt 1 Dr - CV Trucks - Tissue paper painted roof. $50.00 http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003a.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003b.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003c.jpg 4)Walthers (7802) - Pullman - 12 Sec 1 Dr - CV Trucks - Full Interior - some people. $60.00 http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003a.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003b.jpg http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/PZ003c.jpg Willing to discuss offers. Please contact of list. gspear01 at erols dot com Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4376	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book

Well, no luck on the book yet. But I do want to thank Sean and Fred and the other guys who made suggestions and provided information I can use for the clinic. I do appreciate it. Frank Bongiovanni bongiovanni1@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4377	From: Mike Christian	Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Dave Spanagel's email

If the person wanting to contact Dave Spanagel would send me the email, I will forward it to Dave. I do not feel right about publishing his email address without his permission. Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4378	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book

You're welcome, Frank.   Wish I could do more...   Best of luck to you!   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) bongiovanni12001 <bongiovanni1@...> wrote: Well, no luck on the book yet. But I do want to thank Sean and Fred and the other guys who made suggestions and provided information I can use for the clinic. I do appreciate it. Frank Bongiovanni bongiovanni1@... Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4379	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dave Spanagel's email

Mike, I for one appreciate your effort to keep an e-mail address confidential.   What I would do next is e-mail Mr, Spanagel and ask him whether he would like e-mail from "whoever" wanted it.   Good boy, Mike!   Keep it up.   best   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Mike Christian <mikec@...> wrote: If the person wanting to contact Dave Spanagel would send me the email, I will forward it to Dave. I do not feel right about publishing his email address without his permission. Mike Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4380	From: Earl Ray Saathoff	Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Latest roster adds.

Thought I'd comment about your re-build and subsequent motor overheating. In my experience, you did everything right but may have gotten over-zealous putting everything back together. On the F-units, (I'm most familiar with VARNEY) it's best not to torque the screws on the bottom of the trucks too tight. It's tempting but don't do it. As my old auto-mech teacher would say --when ask how tight ta tighten down the wing nut on the air filter, "...till the front wheels come off the ground," he'd say. With all that in mind, take care not to get any oil in the motor. That's very bad (but you knew that). In addition, oiling is not enough. You must add grease, to the gears, as well. Also ya rarely get every part back in the exact position in was in , before ya took 'er apart. Those axles and gears, spent decades 'wearing in,' then you came along and moved everythin' around. Take it easy on 'er an she'll have many great years on the rails, ta come. --frankensteam --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Got a couple more Varney F-3's running, one plastic B unit, bought on eBay, > after I bought it found out the seller was a list member. I hope he isn't > mad that it isn't UP anymore :-) > > Also got a box of "junque" from a friend at a pretty good prive, in amongst > the treasures was a DIECAST F-3 (Finally!), the motor was pretty well burnt > up, but in the same box was an original Hobbytown of Boston F unit drive, > that with a little work I got running fairly nicely. Other news, after a year of fiddling I finally came up with some rubber > bands that were just about right for the Bobbyline H-10-44, last weekend she > finally motivated down the track under her own power. Thinking I was home > free, I took everything apart, cleaned it up, lubed with labelle racing oil > (my favor8ite plastic compatible lube), put it back together, she ran about > 20 feet and the motor got so hot one of the power leads came unsoldered. > Well, back to the drawing board.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4381	From: Ray Hobin	Date: 10/17/2007
Subject: Need to ID attacment nut...

I have a Rivarossi SP Kraus-Maffei diesel pair (powered and unpowered). Many years ago I disassembled it intending to re-power it. Now, I have decided just to use them as manufactured. Only problem is, I misplaced one of the nuts that goes to the shouldered screw that secures an unpowered truck. Have nothing in my "junk" box that fits. Its diameter is 3 mm but it is not a standard 3mm thread as on Japanese imports. Too bad as I have a 3mm tap but no 3mm die. Any idea of its true "nomenclature" or any other suggestion? Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4382	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 10/17/2007
Subject: Re: Need to ID attacment nut...

Ray Hobin wrote: >I have a Rivarossi SP Kraus-Maffei diesel pair (powered and unpowered). >Many years ago I disassembled it intending to re-power it. Now, I have >decided just to use them as manufactured. Only problem is, I misplaced one >of the nuts that goes to the shouldered screw that secures an unpowered >truck. Have nothing in my "junk" box that fits. Its diameter is 3 mm but >it is not a standard 3mm thread as on Japanese imports. Too bad as I have >a 3mm tap but no 3mm die. > >Any idea of its true "nomenclature" or any other suggestion? > > > > Hi Ray, have two of these too ( got the SP one in the early seventies, and the Rio Grande recently) - I may disassemble one this weekend and check if a have an extra nut in my junk box. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4383	From: rayzef	Date: 10/18/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

Roundhouse, I have a few unmade kits. All are prepainted and have the Roundhouse couplers. Hope this helps Ray Z --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cnj999" <jbortle@...> wrote: > > I've seen more than a few pieces of vintage rolling stock over my years > of collecting but I picked up one recently that has me puzzled as to > just who made it and when. > > It appears to represent a standard 1937 AAR 40' steel boxcar, with > Youngstown corrugated doors and 4/5 ribbed ends. Painted a deep boxcar > red, it carries the Central Railroad of New Jersey's old (pre 1943 - > before the statue of liberty design was adopted) arched logo. It is > numbered 21671 and has a Blt date of 9-37, all apparently pad-printed > onto the car. > > Here's the catch for me - except for the plastic roofwalk, the entire > car is diecast: floor, sides, ends and roof. The doors are thin > castings as well and operate. Such details as ladders, brake wheel > mechanism and air valve are cast on. Likewise, the underbody is highly > detailed, with innumerable rivets, support cross members, etc. The car > rides on full equalized trucks. The only identifying mark I can find > anywhere on the car or its trucks is "FB-101" cast in tiny raised > letters on the floor. It came equipped with metal horn-hook couplers > but it looks like the coupler boxes were add-ons and not original to > the car. It's a nicely rendered car which, after cleaning and some > touch-up, will enter service on my layout. > > I seem to vaguely recall MDC offering a car that looked like this one, > way back when (1950's?), but don't remember it as being all diecast. > Anybody recognize the car from my description? > > CNJ999 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4384	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

Yes--definitely Roundhouse.. That's where "Model Die Casting" came from.  They made about 8 different box cars, plus several others--all with silk screened painted sides. They had their own line of paint.  Earlier cars had their operating knuckle couplers.  Usually the earlier ones had a box held to the floor by pins thru holes into wood blocks inside. Later versions had the box cast into the floor with a cover held by 0-80 screws. Either style box takes the #4 Kadee coupler.  I have a "type set" of the MDC line lacking only 3 cars and the HOn3 0-6-0.  I have some duplicates to trade.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: rayzef To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:58 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? Roundhouse, I have a few unmade kits. All are prepainted and have the Roundhouse couplers. Hope this helps Ray Z --- .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4385	From: erieberk	Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

Not quite sure if I understand this reply correctly, however if this is in reference to the number of different cast metal boxcar kits that Roundhouse (MDC) produced, this quantity (8) is far too few. Model Die Casting made well over 50 different boxcar models of many different types and many more different road names for them. They made 22 different standard ("steel sheathed") 40' boxcars (B-100 - B- 121) alone in various road names, not to mention all the other style boxcars. Some time back I had made a chart of all the Roundhouse metal freight cars produced, including all the road names (with kit numbers) and road numbers (some road names had multiple road numbers), which can be found in the Model Die Casting site archives and which I'll try briefly to outline here. Besides the aforementioned kits, Model Die Casting produced 4 horizontal ribbed boxcars (B-200 - B-203), 12 outside braced boxcars (B-300 - B-311), 4 round roof boxcars (B-401 - B-404), 10 wood sheathed boxcars -- including "wood panel," "plywood panel" and "sectional wood sheathed" boxcars (B-501 - B-504, B-601 - B-605 and B-701), 4 "economy" boxcars (DB-1 - DB-4) which came with decals and 2 special service boxcars (later production of them, and several other kits, had dry transfers). A certain few boxcar kit types came as all pre-painted, not only the sides, as did early sand & gravel hoppers. In addition to these boxcars, MDC also made 12 cabooses (including "4- window," "3 & 5 window" and "2-window" types), 6 low-side gondolas, 5 high-side gondolas, 5 triple hopper, 3 sand & gravel hoppers, 8 ore cars, 5 200-ton flat cars, 11 stock cars and 12 reefers (both ice bunker and plug door). There were 17 different color paints offered under the Roundhouse label, in addition to clear gloss, clear flat, thinner and primer. While these were labeled Roundhouse, I believe they were actually Stewart Lundahl or 410-M paints. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Yes--definitely Roundhouse.. That's where "Model Die Casting" came from. They made about 8 different box cars, plus several others--all with silk screened painted sides. They had their own line of paint. Earlier cars had their operating knuckle couplers. Usually the earlier ones had a box held to the floor by pins thru holes into wood blocks inside. Later versions had the box cast into the floor with a cover held by 0-80 screws. Either style box takes the #4 Kadee coupler. I have a "type set" of the MDC line lacking only 3 cars and the HOn3 0-6-0. I have some duplicates to trade. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: rayzef > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:58 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > Roundhouse, I have a few unmade kits. All are prepainted and have the > Roundhouse couplers. > Hope this helps > Ray Z > > --- > Recent Activity > a.. 4New Members > b.. 4New Photos > Visit Your Group > Yahoo! News > Kevin Sites > > Get coverage of > > world crises. > > Popular Y! Groups > Is your group one? > > Check it out and > > see. > > Sitebuilder > Build a web site > > quickly & easily > > with Sitebuilder. > . >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4386	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

I was only counting actually different models, not paint variations.  I have many of those variations, but the core of the collection is to get at least one of each body type.  Then come the paint variations.  I will have to dig out my stuff to find just what cars I lack--they listed a couple of hoppers toward the change point to plastic bodies--I don't know that these ever were made.  I do know I need the UP caboose and the "economy" wood double-sheathed boxcar.  I also need some doors and hatches for the reefer.    I agree on the probable source of the paints.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? Not quite sure if I understand this reply correctly, however if this is in reference to the number of different cast metal boxcar kits that Roundhouse (MDC) produced, this quantity (8) is far too few. Model Die Casting made well over 50 different boxcar models of many different types and many more different road names for them. They made 22 different standard ("steel sheathed") 40' boxcars (B-100 - B- 121) alone in various road names, not to mention all the other style boxcars. Some time back I had made a chart of all the Roundhouse metal freight cars produced, including all the road names (with kit numbers) and road numbers (some road names had multiple road numbers), which can be found in the Model Die Casting site archives and which I'll try briefly to outline here. Besides the aforementioned kits, Model Die Casting produced 4 horizontal ribbed boxcars (B-200 - B-203), 12 outside braced boxcars (B-300 - B-311), 4 round roof boxcars (B-401 - B-404), 10 wood sheathed boxcars -- including "wood panel," "plywood panel" and "sectional wood sheathed" boxcars (B-501 - B-504, B-601 - B-605 and B-701), 4 "economy" boxcars (DB-1 - DB-4) which came with decals and 2 special service boxcars (later production of them, and several other kits, had dry transfers). A certain few boxcar kit types came as all pre-painted, not only the sides, as did early sand & gravel hoppers. In addition to these boxcars, MDC also made 12 cabooses (including "4- window," "3 & 5 window" and "2-window" types), 6 low-side gondolas, 5 high-side gondolas, 5 triple hopper, 3 sand & gravel hoppers, 8 ore cars, 5 200-ton flat cars, 11 stock cars and 12 reefers (both ice bunker and plug door). There were 17 different color paints offered under the Roundhouse label, in addition to clear gloss, clear flat, thinner and primer. While these were labeled Roundhouse, I believe they were actually Stewart Lundahl or 410-M paints. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > Yes--definitely Roundhouse.. That's where "Model Die Casting" came from. They made about 8 different box cars, plus several others--all with silk screened painted sides. They had their own line of paint. Earlier cars had their operating knuckle couplers. Usually the earlier ones had a box held to the floor by pins thru holes into wood blocks inside. Later versions had the box cast into the floor with a cover held by 0-80 screws. Either style box takes the #4 Kadee coupler. I have a "type set" of the MDC line lacking only 3 cars and the HOn3 0-6-0. I have some duplicates to trade. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: rayzef > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:58 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > Roundhouse, I have a few unmade kits. All are prepainted and have the > Roundhouse couplers. > Hope this helps > Ray Z > > --- > Recent Activity > a.. 4New Members > b.. 4New Photos > Visit Your Group > Yahoo! News > Kevin Sites > > Get coverage of > > world crises. > > Popular Y! Groups > Is your group one? > > Check it out and > > see. > > Sitebuilder > Build a web site > > quickly & easily > > with Sitebuilder. > . >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4387	From: takefive247	Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book

Hey Frank, What is the going price on that book. I have two of them. One still in the sealed plastic wrapper. I got interested a couple of years ago and got carried away looking for info on a couple of Varney items I have Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > > You're welcome, Frank. > > Wish I could do more... > > Best of luck to you! > > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) > > bongiovanni12001 <bongiovanni1@...> wrote: > Well, no luck on the book yet. But I do want to thank Sean and Fred > and the other guys who made suggestions and provided information I can > use for the clinic. I do appreciate it. > > Frank Bongiovanni > bongiovanni1@... > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4388	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Greenburg Varney Book

I've only looked at Ebay and Internet dealers but I've seen prices from $80 to $130. Caveat 1: price asked doesn't necessarily mean price will be paid [see ongoing discussion on brass lists]. This fuels my suspicion as to why the local library's copy is missing. Caveat 2: if you pay $100 for a copy, don't be depressed when you see one on the table at a train show for $20. So while I'd still like to buy a copy at a reasonable price, one very kind individual on this list has loaned me his copy for my research for this clinic. In all candor, this is not an area that I consider to be myself expert on, but I was asked to do this specific clinic. Hey, I might learn something. But I suspect I'll have more questions for the group. And maybe someday I'll be able to supply some answers. Frank Bongiovanni bongiovanni1@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4389	From: erieberk	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

Thanks for the clarification on what you meant on there being "8 different box cars." Yes, that's quite correct, there were about 8 or so different types of boxcars, produced in about 10 different series of kit numbers (B-100 . . . , B-200 . . . , etc.) as regards to the series produced, incidentally, with the last 3 series (DB-1 - DB-4, W-1 & W-2 and B-1 & B-2) seemingly the hardest to locate. I agree, in starting such a collection, its always best to at least try to get one of each body type and go from there. Yes, as I mentioned in my previous post, there were 5 cast metal triple hoppers Rib side) put out by MDC; they were released in April of 1957 (as also were the 200 ton depressed center flats - which rode on double trucks at each end). Yes, these cars were made. Fortunately, the Roundhouse production of metal cars is one of my collections which I have complete (including all variations of any -- roadnumbers, paint schemes, etc.), except for a hand full of cars, and I have all 5 of the metal triple hoppers. They are -- H-401 D&RGW (black), H-402 UP (tuscan red), H- 403 C&EI (tuscan red), H-404 WM (tuscan red) and H-501 C&O - Round End (black). There are 22 different types of metal freight car models (in as many differently numbered series) with 131 different roadnames in all. While there are only a few different color schemes on some, with multiple numbers on some models there are about 140 different road numbers. This does not include the multiple road number variations of the 11 different roadnames of stock cars which came with cardboard placards, with up to 6 different numbers for your choice of use. So, just keep on collecting (LOL). I'll look to see if I have any extra doors. BTW, For anyone having access to copies of "The Reporting Mark," the old (1990-ish) publication of the HO SC&H - SIG (HO Scale Collectors and History - Special Interest Group of the NMRA), Dave Spanagel published my comprehensive article on Roundhouse/MDC including the complete history of the manufacturer and all metal kits produced. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I was only counting actually different models, not paint variations. I have many of those variations, but the core of the collection is to get at least one of each body type. Then come the paint variations. I will have to dig out my stuff to find just what cars I lack--they listed a couple of hoppers toward the change point to plastic bodies--I don't know that these ever were made. I do know I need the UP caboose and the "economy" wood double-sheathed boxcar. I also need some doors and hatches for the reefer. > > I agree on the probable source of the paints. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:52 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > Not quite sure if I understand this reply correctly, however if this > is in reference to the number of different cast metal boxcar kits > that Roundhouse (MDC) produced, this quantity (8) is far too few. > Model Die Casting made well over 50 different boxcar models of many > different types and many more different road names for them. They > made 22 different standard ("steel sheathed") 40' boxcars (B-100 - B- > 121) alone in various road names, not to mention all the other style > boxcars. Some time back I had made a chart of all the Roundhouse > metal freight cars produced, including all the road names (with kit > numbers) and road numbers (some road names had multiple road > numbers), which can be found in the Model Die Casting site archives > and which I'll try briefly to outline here. > > Besides the aforementioned kits, Model Die Casting produced 4 > horizontal ribbed boxcars (B-200 - B-203), 12 outside braced boxcars > (B-300 - B-311), 4 round roof boxcars (B-401 - B-404), 10 wood > sheathed boxcars -- including "wood panel," "plywood panel" > and "sectional wood sheathed" boxcars (B-501 - B-504, B-601 - B- 605 > and B-701), 4 "economy" boxcars (DB-1 - DB-4) which came with decals > and 2 special service boxcars (later production of them, and several > other kits, had dry transfers). A certain few boxcar kit types came > as all pre-painted, not only the sides, as did early sand & gravel > hoppers. > > In addition to these boxcars, MDC also made 12 cabooses (including "4- > window," "3 & 5 window" and "2-window" types), 6 low-side gondolas, 5 > high-side gondolas, 5 triple hopper, 3 sand & gravel hoppers, 8 ore > cars, 5 200-ton flat cars, 11 stock cars and 12 reefers (both ice > bunker and plug door). > > There were 17 different color paints offered under the Roundhouse > label, in addition to clear gloss, clear flat, thinner and primer. > While these were labeled Roundhouse, I believe they were actually > Stewart Lundahl or 410-M paints. Ray Wetzel > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > Yes--definitely Roundhouse.. That's where "Model Die Casting" came > from. They made about 8 different box cars, plus several others-- all > with silk screened painted sides. They had their own line of paint. > Earlier cars had their operating knuckle couplers. Usually the > earlier ones had a box held to the floor by pins thru holes into wood > blocks inside. Later versions had the box cast into the floor with a > cover held by 0-80 screws. Either style box takes the #4 Kadee > coupler. I have a "type set" of the MDC line lacking only 3 cars and > the HOn3 0-6-0. I have some duplicates to trade. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: rayzef > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:58 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > > > > Roundhouse, I have a few unmade kits. All are prepainted and have > the > > Roundhouse couplers. > > Hope this helps > > Ray Z > > > > --- > > Recent Activity > > a.. 4New Members > > b.. 4New Photos > > Visit Your Group > > Yahoo! News > > Kevin Sites > > > > Get coverage of > > > > world crises. > > > > Popular Y! Groups > > Is your group one? > > > > Check it out and > > > > see. > > > > Sitebuilder > > Build a web site > > > > quickly & easily > > > > with Sitebuilder. > > . > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4390	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney Book

----- Original Message ----- From: "bongiovanni12001" <bongiovanni1@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:48 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Greenburg Varney Book (Text bobbitted) > In all candor, this is not an area that I consider to be myself expert > on, but I was asked to do this specific clinic. Hey, I might learn > something. But I suspect I'll have more questions for the group. And > maybe someday I'll be able to supply some answers. > > Frank Bongiovanni > bongiovanni1@... That's a big part of why I started the group. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4391	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

How about a shout list of all the kit number? i.e B-100:121, F-100:105, etc. I have 124 kit numbers in my list,  short of the 131 roadnames you mention. Did anybody mention kits R1 and R2?  SFRD & SWIFT plug door reefers. I would like to have a complete kit list.  Garry Spear On 10/20/07, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: Thanks for the clarification on what you meant on there being "8 different box cars." Yes, that's quite correct, there were about 8 or so different types of boxcars, produced in about 10 different series of kit numbers (B-100 . . . , B-200 . . . , etc.) as regards to the series produced, incidentally, with the last 3 series (DB-1 - DB-4, W-1 & W-2 and B-1 & B-2) seemingly the hardest to locate. I agree, in starting such a collection, its always best to at least try to get one of each body type and go from there. Yes, as I mentioned in my previous post, there were 5 cast metal triple hoppers Rib side) put out by MDC; they were released in April of 1957 (as also were the 200 ton depressed center flats - which rode on double trucks at each end). Yes, these cars were made. Fortunately, the Roundhouse production of metal cars is one of my collections which I have complete (including all variations of any -- roadnumbers, paint schemes, etc.), except for a hand full of cars, and I have all 5 of the metal triple hoppers. They are -- H-401 D&RGW (black), H-402 UP (tuscan red), H- 403 C&EI (tuscan red), H-404 WM (tuscan red) and H-501 C&O - Round End (black). There are 22 different types of metal freight car models (in as many differently numbered series) with 131 different roadnames in all. While there are only a few different color schemes on some, with multiple numbers on some models there are about 140 different road numbers. This does not include the multiple road number variations of the 11 different roadnames of stock cars which came with cardboard placards, with up to 6 different numbers for your choice of use. So, just keep on collecting (LOL). I'll look to see if I have any extra doors. BTW, For anyone having access to copies of "The Reporting Mark," the old (1990-ish) publication of the HO SC&H - SIG (HO Scale Collectors and History - Special Interest Group of the NMRA), Dave Spanagel published my comprehensive article on Roundhouse/MDC including the complete history of the manufacturer and all metal kits produced. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I was only counting actually different models, not paint variations. I have many of those variations, but the core of the collection is to get at least one of each body type. Then come the paint variations. I will have to dig out my stuff to find just what cars I lack--they listed a couple of hoppers toward the change point to plastic bodies--I don't know that these ever were made. I do know I need the UP caboose and the "economy" wood double-sheathed boxcar. I also need some doors and hatches for the reefer. > > I agree on the probable source of the paints. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:52 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > Not quite sure if I understand this reply correctly, however if this > is in reference to the number of different cast metal boxcar kits > that Roundhouse (MDC) produced, this quantity (8) is far too few. > Model Die Casting made well over 50 different boxcar models of many > different types and many more different road names for them. They > made 22 different standard ("steel sheathed") 40' boxcars (B-100 - B- > 121) alone in various road names, not to mention all the other style > boxcars. Some time back I had made a chart of all the Roundhouse > metal freight cars produced, including all the road names (with kit > numbers) and road numbers (some road names had multiple road > numbers), which can be found in the Model Die Casting site archives > and which I'll try briefly to outline here. > > Besides the aforementioned kits, Model Die Casting produced 4 > horizontal ribbed boxcars (B-200 - B-203), 12 outside braced boxcars > (B-300 - B-311), 4 round roof boxcars (B-401 - B-404), 10 wood > sheathed boxcars -- including "wood panel," "plywood panel" > and "sectional wood sheathed" boxcars (B-501 - B-504, B-601 - B- 605 > and B-701), 4 "economy" boxcars (DB-1 - DB-4) which came with decals > and 2 special service boxcars (later production of them, and several > other kits, had dry transfers). A certain few boxcar kit types came > as all pre-painted, not only the sides, as did early sand & gravel > hoppers. > > In addition to these boxcars, MDC also made 12 cabooses (including "4- > window," "3 & 5 window" and "2-window" types), 6 low-side gondolas, 5 > high-side gondolas, 5 triple hopper, 3 sand & gravel hoppers, 8 ore > cars, 5 200-ton flat cars, 11 stock cars and 12 reefers (both ice > bunker and plug door). > > There were 17 different color paints offered under the Roundhouse > label, in addition to clear gloss, clear flat, thinner and primer. > While these were labeled Roundhouse, I believe they were actually > Stewart Lundahl or 410-M paints. Ray Wetzel > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > Yes--definitely Roundhouse.. That's where "Model Die Casting" came > from. They made about 8 different box cars, plus several others-- all > with silk screened painted sides. They had their own line of paint. > Earlier cars had their operating knuckle couplers. Usually the > earlier ones had a box held to the floor by pins thru holes into wood > blocks inside. Later versions had the box cast into the floor with a > cover held by 0-80 screws. Either style box takes the #4 Kadee > coupler. I have a "type set" of the MDC line lacking only 3 cars and > the HOn3 0-6-0. I have some duplicates to trade. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: rayzef > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:58 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > > > > Roundhouse, I have a few unmade kits. All are prepainted and have > the > > Roundhouse couplers. > > Hope this helps > > Ray Z > > > > --- > > Recent Activity > > a.. 4New Members > > b.. 4New Photos > > Visit Your Group > > Yahoo! News > > Kevin Sites > > > > Get coverage of > > > > world crises. > > > > Popular Y! Groups > > Is your group one? > > > > Check it out and > > > > see. > > > > Sitebuilder > > Build a web site > > > > quickly & easily > > > > with Sitebuilder. > > . > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4392	From: erieberk	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

Sure, with a little effort I guess that can be arranged. In checking the MDC/Roundhouse archives, I notice my listing of these cars as message #443, but I also see I never completed it. Was going to ask your posting for a request of just those numbers you were missing, but it looks like a complete revision is in order. As to your question on the MDC metal Plug-Door Reefers, no I haven't seen anyone at all mention them yet. They are: R-1 ATSF (SFRD) Orange - Black Lettering - 3280 (w/Decals - 3281, 3285, 3490), R-2 Swift (SLRX) - Caboose Red - Black Lettering - 15987 as you mentioned - also R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering - 39500 and R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611. I suspect there may possibly be other plug door reefer kits to fill in the kit numbers between these, but I've never seen them. Neither, have I ever seen them mentioned in catalogs, although my collection of them is spotty, having 1948, '51, '53, '57, '59, '69, '77, etc. Have to throw out an "Oops" here; sorry I just realized that my reference to the five 200 ton (4 truck) Flat Cars I wrote somewhere, as being depressed center, was erroneous; they are just heavy duty with a double-height mid beam. I just wasn't picturing them clearly when I wrote that. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...> wrote: > > How about a shout list of all the kit number? > > i.e B-100:121, F-100:105, etc. > > I have 124 kit numbers in my list, short of the 131 roadnames you mention. > > Did anybody mention kits R1 and R2? SFRD & SWIFT plug door reefers. > > I would like to have a complete kit list. > > Garry Spear > > > On 10/20/07, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: > > > > Thanks for the clarification on what you meant on there being "8 > > different box cars." Yes, that's quite correct, there were about 8 > > or so different types of boxcars, produced in about 10 different > > series of kit numbers (B-100 . . . , B-200 . . . , etc.) as regards > > to the series produced, incidentally, with the last 3 series (DB- 1 - > > DB-4, W-1 & W-2 and B-1 & B-2) seemingly the hardest to locate. > > > > I agree, in starting such a collection, its always best to at least > > try to get one of each body type and go from there. Yes, as I > > mentioned in my previous post, there were 5 cast metal triple hoppers > > Rib side) put out by MDC; they were released in April of 1957 (as > > also were the 200 ton depressed center flats - which rode on double > > trucks at each end). > > > > Yes, these cars were made. Fortunately, the Roundhouse production of > > metal cars is one of my collections which I have complete (including > > all variations of any -- roadnumbers, paint schemes, etc.), except > > for a hand full of cars, and I have all 5 of the metal triple > > hoppers. They are -- H-401 D&RGW (black), H-402 UP (tuscan red), H- > > 403 C&EI (tuscan red), H-404 WM (tuscan red) and H-501 C&O - Round > > End (black). There are 22 different types of metal freight car > > models (in as many differently numbered series) with 131 different > > roadnames in all. While there are only a few different color schemes > > on some, with multiple numbers on some models there are about 140 > > different road numbers. This does not include the multiple road > > number variations of the 11 different roadnames of stock cars which > > came with cardboard placards, with up to 6 different numbers for your > > choice of use. So, just keep on collecting (LOL). I'll look to see > > if I have any extra doors. BTW, For anyone having access to copies > > of "The Reporting Mark," the old (1990-ish) publication of the HO > > SC&H - SIG (HO Scale Collectors and History - Special Interest Group > > of the NMRA), Dave Spanagel published my comprehensive article on > > Roundhouse/MDC including the complete history of the manufacturer and > > all metal kits produced. Ray Wetzel > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO% 40yahoogroups.com>, "Glenn476" > > <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > > > I was only counting actually different models, not paint > > variations. I have many of those variations, but the core of the > > collection is to get at least one of each body type. Then come the > > paint variations. I will have to dig out my stuff to find just what > > cars I lack--they listed a couple of hoppers toward the change point > > to plastic bodies--I don't know that these ever were made. I do know > > I need the UP caboose and the "economy" wood double-sheathed boxcar. > > I also need some doors and hatches for the reefer. > > > > > > I agree on the probable source of the paints. gj > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: erieberk > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:52 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > > > > > > > Not quite sure if I understand this reply correctly, however if > > this > > > is in reference to the number of different cast metal boxcar kits > > > that Roundhouse (MDC) produced, this quantity (8) is far too few. > > > Model Die Casting made well over 50 different boxcar models of > > many > > > different types and many more different road names for them. They > > > made 22 different standard ("steel sheathed") 40' boxcars (B- 100 - > > B- > > > 121) alone in various road names, not to mention all the other > > style > > > boxcars. Some time back I had made a chart of all the Roundhouse > > > metal freight cars produced, including all the road names (with > > kit > > > numbers) and road numbers (some road names had multiple road > > > numbers), which can be found in the Model Die Casting site > > archives > > > and which I'll try briefly to outline here. > > > > > > Besides the aforementioned kits, Model Die Casting produced 4 > > > horizontal ribbed boxcars (B-200 - B-203), 12 outside braced > > boxcars > > > (B-300 - B-311), 4 round roof boxcars (B-401 - B-404), 10 wood > > > sheathed boxcars -- including "wood panel," "plywood panel" > > > and "sectional wood sheathed" boxcars (B-501 - B-504, B-601 - B- > > 605 > > > and B-701), 4 "economy" boxcars (DB-1 - DB-4) which came with > > decals > > > and 2 special service boxcars (later production of them, and > > several > > > other kits, had dry transfers). A certain few boxcar kit types > > came > > > as all pre-painted, not only the sides, as did early sand & > > gravel > > > hoppers. > > > > > > In addition to these boxcars, MDC also made 12 cabooses > > (including "4- > > > window," "3 & 5 window" and "2-window" types), 6 low-side > > gondolas, 5 > > > high-side gondolas, 5 triple hopper, 3 sand & gravel hoppers, 8 > > ore > > > cars, 5 200-ton flat cars, 11 stock cars and 12 reefers (both ice > > > bunker and plug door). > > > > > > There were 17 different color paints offered under the Roundhouse > > > label, in addition to clear gloss, clear flat, thinner and > > primer. > > > While these were labeled Roundhouse, I believe they were actually > > > Stewart Lundahl or 410-M paints. Ray Wetzel > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes--definitely Roundhouse.. That's where "Model Die Casting" > > came > > > from. They made about 8 different box cars, plus several others- - > > all > > > with silk screened painted sides. They had their own line of > > paint. > > > Earlier cars had their operating knuckle couplers. Usually the > > > earlier ones had a box held to the floor by pins thru holes into > > wood > > > blocks inside. Later versions had the box cast into the floor > > with a > > > cover held by 0-80 screws. Either style box takes the #4 Kadee > > > coupler. I have a "type set" of the MDC line lacking only 3 cars > > and > > > the HOn3 0-6-0. I have some duplicates to trade. gj > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: rayzef > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:58 PM > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > > > > > > > > > > Roundhouse, I have a few unmade kits. All are prepainted and > > have > > > the > > > > Roundhouse couplers. > > > > Hope this helps > > > > Ray Z > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Recent Activity > > > > a.. 4New Members > > > > b.. 4New Photos > > > > Visit Your Group > > > > Yahoo! News > > > > Kevin Sites > > > > > > > > Get coverage of > > > > > > > > world crises. > > > > > > > > Popular Y! Groups > > > > Is your group one? > > > > > > > > Check it out and > > > > > > > > see. > > > > > > > > Sitebuilder > > > > Build a web site > > > > > > > > quickly & easily > > > > > > > > with Sitebuilder. > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4393	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

That's quite a lot of info--I haven't had time to get out and check the boxes--have been out with the 12" scale live steamers all day.  Will dig thru them tomorrow.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 6:15 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? Thanks for the clarification on what you meant on there being "8 different box cars." Yes, that's quite correct, there were about 8 or so different types of boxcars, produced in about 10 different series of kit numbers (B-100 . . . , B-200 . . . , etc.) as regards to the series produced, incidentally, with the last 3 series (DB-1 - DB-4, W-1 & W-2 and B-1 & B-2) seemingly the hardest to locate. I agree, in starting such a collection, its always best to at least try to get one of each body type and go from there. Yes, as I mentioned in my previous post, there were 5 cast metal triple hoppers Rib side) put out by MDC; they were released in April of 1957 (as also were the 200 ton depressed center flats - which rode on double trucks at each end). Yes, these cars were made. Fortunately, the Roundhouse production of metal cars is one of my collections which I have complete (including all variations of any -- roadnumbers, paint schemes, etc.), except for a hand full of cars, and I have all 5 of the metal triple hoppers. They are -- H-401 D&RGW (black), H-402 UP (tuscan red), H- 403 C&EI (tuscan red), H-404 WM (tuscan red) and H-501 C&O - Round End (black). There are 22 different types of metal freight car models (in as many differently numbered series) with 131 different roadnames in all. While there are only a few different color schemes on some, with multiple numbers on some models there are about 140 different road numbers. This does not include the multiple road number variations of the 11 different roadnames of stock cars which came with cardboard placards, with up to 6 different numbers for your choice of use. So, just keep on collecting (LOL). I'll look to see if I have any extra doors. BTW, For anyone having access to copies of "The Reporting Mark," the old (1990-ish) publication of the HO SC&H - SIG (HO Scale Collectors and History - Special Interest Group of the NMRA), Dave Spanagel published my comprehensive article on Roundhouse/MDC including the complete history of the manufacturer and all metal kits produced. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > I was only counting actually different models, not paint variations. I have many of those variations, but the core of the collection is to get at least one of each body type. Then come the paint variations. I will have to dig out my stuff to find just what cars I lack--they listed a couple of hoppers toward the change point to plastic bodies--I don't know that these ever were made. I do know I need the UP caboose and the "economy" wood double-sheathed boxcar. I also need some doors and hatches for the reefer. > > I agree on the probable source of the paints. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:52 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > Not quite sure if I understand this reply correctly, however if this > is in reference to the number of different cast metal boxcar kits > that Roundhouse (MDC) produced, this quantity (8) is far too few. > Model Die Casting made well over 50 different boxcar models of many > different types and many more different road names for them. They > made 22 different standard ("steel sheathed") 40' boxcars (B-100 - B- > 121) alone in various road names, not to mention all the other style > boxcars. Some time back I had made a chart of all the Roundhouse > metal freight cars produced, including all the road names (with kit > numbers) and road numbers (some road names had multiple road > numbers), which can be found in the Model Die Casting site archives > and which I'll try briefly to outline here. > > Besides the aforementioned kits, Model Die Casting produced 4 > horizontal ribbed boxcars (B-200 - B-203), 12 outside braced boxcars > (B-300 - B-311), 4 round roof boxcars (B-401 - B-404), 10 wood > sheathed boxcars -- including "wood panel," "plywood panel" > and "sectional wood sheathed" boxcars (B-501 - B-504, B-601 - B- 605 > and B-701), 4 "economy" boxcars (DB-1 - DB-4) which came with decals > and 2 special service boxcars (later production of them, and several > other kits, had dry transfers). A certain few boxcar kit types came > as all pre-painted, not only the sides, as did early sand & gravel > hoppers. > > In addition to these boxcars, MDC also made 12 cabooses (including "4- > window," "3 & 5 window" and "2-window" types), 6 low-side gondolas, 5 > high-side gondolas, 5 triple hopper, 3 sand & gravel hoppers, 8 ore > cars, 5 200-ton flat cars, 11 stock cars and 12 reefers (both ice > bunker and plug door). > > There were 17 different color paints offered under the Roundhouse > label, in addition to clear gloss, clear flat, thinner and primer. > While these were labeled Roundhouse, I believe they were actually > Stewart Lundahl or 410-M paints. Ray Wetzel > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > Yes--definitely Roundhouse.. That's where "Model Die Casting" came > from. They made about 8 different box cars, plus several others-- all > with silk screened painted sides. They had their own line of paint. > Earlier cars had their operating knuckle couplers. Usually the > earlier ones had a box held to the floor by pins thru holes into wood > blocks inside. Later versions had the box cast into the floor with a > cover held by 0-80 screws. Either style box takes the #4 Kadee > coupler. I have a "type set" of the MDC line lacking only 3 cars and > the HOn3 0-6-0. I have some duplicates to trade. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: rayzef > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:58 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > > > > Roundhouse, I have a few unmade kits. All are prepainted and have > the > > Roundhouse couplers. > > Hope this helps > > Ray Z > > > > --- > > Recent Activity > > a.. 4New Members > > b.. 4New Photos > > Visit Your Group > > Yahoo! News > > Kevin Sites > > > > Get coverage of > > > > world crises. > > > > Popular Y! Groups > > Is your group one? > > > > Check it out and > > > > see. > > > > Sitebuilder > > Build a web site > > > > quickly & easily > > > > with Sitebuilder. > > . > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4394	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

Glenn, I have a spreadsheet to use as a start for a kitnumber list is that would be a help. 12" scale =s the real thing? I can supply numbers for about 50% of the kit numbers on my list, but that is a different level of detail and research. Garry On 10/20/07, Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: That's quite a lot of info--I haven't had time to get out and check the boxes--have been out with the 12" scale live steamers all day.  Will dig thru them tomorrow.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 6:15 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? Thanks for the clarification on what you meant on there being "8 different box cars." Yes, that's quite correct, there were about 8 or so different types of boxcars, produced in about 10 different series of kit numbers (B-100 . . . , B-200 . . . , etc.) as regards to the series produced, incidentally, with the last 3 series (DB-1 - DB-4, W-1 & W-2 and B-1 & B-2) seemingly the hardest to locate. I agree, in starting such a collection, its always best to at least try to get one of each body type and go from there. Yes, as I mentioned in my previous post, there were 5 cast metal triple hoppers Rib side) put out by MDC; they were released in April of 1957 (as also were the 200 ton depressed center flats - which rode on double trucks at each end). Yes, these cars were made. Fortunately, the Roundhouse production of metal cars is one of my collections which I have complete (including all variations of any -- roadnumbers, paint schemes, etc.), except for a hand full of cars, and I have all 5 of the metal triple hoppers. They are -- H-401 D&RGW (black), H-402 UP (tuscan red), H- 403 C&EI (tuscan red), H-404 WM (tuscan red) and H-501 C&O - Round End (black). There are 22 different types of metal freight car models (in as many differently numbered series) with 131 different roadnames in all. While there are only a few different color schemes on some, with multiple numbers on some models there are about 140 different road numbers. This does not include the multiple road number variations of the 11 different roadnames of stock cars which came with cardboard placards, with up to 6 different numbers for your choice of use. So, just keep on collecting (LOL). I'll look to see if I have any extra doors. BTW, For anyone having access to copies of "The Reporting Mark," the old (1990-ish) publication of the HO SC&H - SIG (HO Scale Collectors and History - Special Interest Group of the NMRA), Dave Spanagel published my comprehensive article on Roundhouse/MDC including the complete history of the manufacturer and all metal kits produced. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I was only counting actually different models, not paint variations. I have many of those variations, but the core of the collection is to get at least one of each body type. Then come the paint variations. I will have to dig out my stuff to find just what cars I lack--they listed a couple of hoppers toward the change point to plastic bodies--I don't know that these ever were made. I do know I need the UP caboose and the "economy" wood double-sheathed boxcar. I also need some doors and hatches for the reefer. > > I agree on the probable source of the paints. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:52 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > Not quite sure if I understand this reply correctly, however if this > is in reference to the number of different cast metal boxcar kits > that Roundhouse (MDC) produced, this quantity (8) is far too few. > Model Die Casting made well over 50 different boxcar models of many > different types and many more different road names for them. They > made 22 different standard ("steel sheathed") 40' boxcars (B-100 - B- > 121) alone in various road names, not to mention all the other style > boxcars. Some time back I had made a chart of all the Roundhouse > metal freight cars produced, including all the road names (with kit > numbers) and road numbers (some road names had multiple road > numbers), which can be found in the Model Die Casting site archives > and which I'll try briefly to outline here. > > Besides the aforementioned kits, Model Die Casting produced 4 > horizontal ribbed boxcars (B-200 - B-203), 12 outside braced boxcars > (B-300 - B-311), 4 round roof boxcars (B-401 - B-404), 10 wood > sheathed boxcars -- including "wood panel," "plywood panel" > and "sectional wood sheathed" boxcars (B-501 - B-504, B-601 - B- 605 > and B-701), 4 "economy" boxcars (DB-1 - DB-4) which came with decals > and 2 special service boxcars (later production of them, and several > other kits, had dry transfers). A certain few boxcar kit types came > as all pre-painted, not only the sides, as did early sand & gravel > hoppers. > > In addition to these boxcars, MDC also made 12 cabooses (including "4- > window," "3 & 5 window" and "2-window" types), 6 low-side gondolas, 5 > high-side gondolas, 5 triple hopper, 3 sand & gravel hoppers, 8 ore > cars, 5 200-ton flat cars, 11 stock cars and 12 reefers (both ice > bunker and plug door). > > There were 17 different color paints offered under the Roundhouse > label, in addition to clear gloss, clear flat, thinner and primer. > While these were labeled Roundhouse, I believe they were actually > Stewart Lundahl or 410-M paints. Ray Wetzel > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > Yes--definitely Roundhouse.. That's where "Model Die Casting" came > from. They made about 8 different box cars, plus several others-- all > with silk screened painted sides. They had their own line of paint. > Earlier cars had their operating knuckle couplers. Usually the > earlier ones had a box held to the floor by pins thru holes into wood > blocks inside. Later versions had the box cast into the floor with a > cover held by 0-80 screws. Either style box takes the #4 Kadee > coupler. I have a "type set" of the MDC line lacking only 3 cars and > the HOn3 0-6-0. I have some duplicates to trade. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: rayzef > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:58 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > > > > Roundhouse, I have a few unmade kits. All are prepainted and have > the > > Roundhouse couplers. > > Hope this helps > > Ray Z > > > > --- > > Recent Activity > > a.. 4New Members > > b.. 4New Photos > > Visit Your Group > > Yahoo! News > > Kevin Sites > > > > Get coverage of > > > > world crises. > > > > Popular Y! Groups > > Is your group one? > > > > Check it out and > > > > see. > > > > Sitebuilder > > Build a web site > > > > quickly & easily > > > > with Sitebuilder. > > . > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4395	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?

I don't think I need that spreadsheet yet--I have several catalogs from the period.   yes--12" scale is the full size.  I spend a lot of time volunteering on the local railroad's passenger trains--the Yreka Western RR "Blue Goose"--we are just about through for the season--one regular passenger run and a pumpkin trip for the public next Saturday, plus a couple of school charters to the pumpkin patch.  It helps keep our HO model RR club in the good graces of the owner of the building we have our layout in--photo of our loco rescuing a diesel on p76, October Trains.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry Spear To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? Glenn, I have a spreadsheet to use as a start for a kitnumber list is that would be a help. 12" scale =s the real thing? I can supply numbers for about 50% of the kit numbers on my list, but that is a different level of detail and research. Garry On 10/20/07, Glenn476 <glenn476@4fast. net> wrote: That's quite a lot of info--I haven't had time to get out and check the boxes--have been out with the 12" scale live steamers all day.  Will dig thru them tomorrow.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 6:15 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? Thanks for the clarification on what you meant on there being "8 different box cars." Yes, that's quite correct, there were about 8 or so different types of boxcars, produced in about 10 different series of kit numbers (B-100 . . . , B-200 . . . , etc.) as regards to the series produced, incidentally, with the last 3 series (DB-1 - DB-4, W-1 & W-2 and B-1 & B-2) seemingly the hardest to locate. I agree, in starting such a collection, its always best to at least try to get one of each body type and go from there. Yes, as I mentioned in my previous post, there were 5 cast metal triple hoppers Rib side) put out by MDC; they were released in April of 1957 (as also were the 200 ton depressed center flats - which rode on double trucks at each end). Yes, these cars were made. Fortunately, the Roundhouse production of metal cars is one of my collections which I have complete (including all variations of any -- roadnumbers, paint schemes, etc.), except for a hand full of cars, and I have all 5 of the metal triple hoppers. They are -- H-401 D&RGW (black), H-402 UP (tuscan red), H- 403 C&EI (tuscan red), H-404 WM (tuscan red) and H-501 C&O - Round End (black). There are 22 different types of metal freight car models (in as many differently numbered series) with 131 different roadnames in all. While there are only a few different color schemes on some, with multiple numbers on some models there are about 140 different road numbers. This does not include the multiple road number variations of the 11 different roadnames of stock cars which came with cardboard placards, with up to 6 different numbers for your choice of use. So, just keep on collecting (LOL). I'll look to see if I have any extra doors. BTW, For anyone having access to copies of "The Reporting Mark," the old (1990-ish) publication of the HO SC&H - SIG (HO Scale Collectors and History - Special Interest Group of the NMRA), Dave Spanagel published my comprehensive article on Roundhouse/MDC including the complete history of the manufacturer and all metal kits produced. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I was only counting actually different models, not paint variations. I have many of those variations, but the core of the collection is to get at least one of each body type. Then come the paint variations. I will have to dig out my stuff to find just what cars I lack--they listed a couple of hoppers toward the change point to plastic bodies--I don't know that these ever were made. I do know I need the UP caboose and the "economy" wood double-sheathed boxcar. I also need some doors and hatches for the reefer. > > I agree on the probable source of the paints. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:52 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > Not quite sure if I understand this reply correctly, however if this > is in reference to the number of different cast metal boxcar kits > that Roundhouse (MDC) produced, this quantity (8) is far too few. > Model Die Casting made well over 50 different boxcar models of many > different types and many more different road names for them. They > made 22 different standard ("steel sheathed") 40' boxcars (B-100 - B- > 121) alone in various road names, not to mention all the other style > boxcars. Some time back I had made a chart of all the Roundhouse > metal freight cars produced, including all the road names (with kit > numbers) and road numbers (some road names had multiple road > numbers), which can be found in the Model Die Casting site archives > and which I'll try briefly to outline here. > > Besides the aforementioned kits, Model Die Casting produced 4 > horizontal ribbed boxcars (B-200 - B-203), 12 outside braced boxcars > (B-300 - B-311), 4 round roof boxcars (B-401 - B-404), 10 wood > sheathed boxcars -- including "wood panel," "plywood panel" > and "sectional wood sheathed" boxcars (B-501 - B-504, B-601 - B- 605 > and B-701), 4 "economy" boxcars (DB-1 - DB-4) which came with decals > and 2 special service boxcars (later production of them, and several > other kits, had dry transfers). A certain few boxcar kit types came > as all pre-painted, not only the sides, as did early sand & gravel > hoppers. > > In addition to these boxcars, MDC also made 12 cabooses (including "4- > window," "3 & 5 window" and "2-window" types), 6 low-side gondolas, 5 > high-side gondolas, 5 triple hopper, 3 sand & gravel hoppers, 8 ore > cars, 5 200-ton flat cars, 11 stock cars and 12 reefers (both ice > bunker and plug door). > > There were 17 different color paints offered under the Roundhouse > label, in addition to clear gloss, clear flat, thinner and primer. > While these were labeled Roundhouse, I believe they were actually > Stewart Lundahl or 410-M paints. Ray Wetzel > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > Yes--definitely Roundhouse.. That's where "Model Die Casting" came > from. They made about 8 different box cars, plus several others-- all > with silk screened painted sides. They had their own line of paint. > Earlier cars had their operating knuckle couplers. Usually the > earlier ones had a box held to the floor by pins thru holes into wood > blocks inside. Later versions had the box cast into the floor with a > cover held by 0-80 screws. Either style box takes the #4 Kadee > coupler. I have a "type set" of the MDC line lacking only 3 cars and > the HOn3 0-6-0. I have some duplicates to trade. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: rayzef > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:58 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Boxcar Builder ID? > > > > > > Roundhouse, I have a few unmade kits. All are prepainted and have > the > > Roundhouse couplers. > > Hope this helps > > Ray Z > > > > --- > > Recent Activity > > a.. 4New Members > > b.. 4New Photos > > Visit Your Group > > Yahoo! News > > Kevin Sites > > > > Get coverage of > > > > world crises. > > > > Popular Y! Groups > > Is your group one? > > > > Check it out and > > > > see. > > > > Sitebuilder > > Build a web site > > > > quickly & easily > > > > with Sitebuilder. > > . > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4396	From: erieberk	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel

Kit # Roadname Color of Sides Road Numbers (White Lettering Except Where Noted) Metal Sheath Box Cars: B-100 UP Tuscan Red 187085 B-101 NYC&StL (NKP) Tuscan Red 13399 B-102 SR Tuscan Red 10029 B-103 IC Tuscan Red 18862 B-104 PRR Tuscan Red 78500 B-105 ACL Tuscan Red 20723 B-106 SLSF Tuscan Red 17270 B-107 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 97300 B-108 NYC Tuscan Red 165933 B-109 CNJ Tuscan Red 21671 B-110 C&O Tuscan Red - White Lettering 15362 Tuscan Red - Gold Lettering 15362 B-111 EJ&E Medium Green 60900 B-112 CRP Coach Green - Gold Lettering 22499 B-113 Monon (CIL) Gray - Red Lettering 499 B-114 N&B Cement Gray - Black Lettering 701 B-115 MEC B-116 CN Tuscan Red 524270 B-117 WM Tuscan Red 28063 B-118 B&M Blue 77899 B-119 NH (NYNH&H) Red B-120 NH " Black B-121 C&IM Medium Green w/Maroon Stripe 16021 ---------O--------- Thought I'd try this listing of the 40' standard box cars first, and stop here to see how it posts. As typed, the columns all line up, but that may well change to a jumble as soon as I hit SEND; let see!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4397	From: erieberk	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Continued from previous post: Kit# Roadname Color of Sides Road Number Horizontal Rib Box Cars: B-200 MILW Olympian Tuscan Red 18512 B-201 MILW Hiawatha Tuscan Red 23916 B-202 CM&StP Olympian Tuscan Red 21054 B-203 CM&StP Hiawatha Tuscan Red 21054 Truss Side Box Cars: B-300 ATSF Tuscan Red 128905 B-301 SAL Tuscan Red 15411 B-302 CB&Q Tuscan Red 28000 B-303 NP Tuscan Red 15441 B-304 SP Tuscan Red 29966 B-305 L&N Tuscan Red 13149 B-306 MP Tuscan Red (I-GN) 9760 B-307 GM&N Tuscan Red 20111 B-308 RI Tuscan Red 142738 B-309 CP Tuscan Red 205314 B-310 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 79812 B-311 StL&SF Tuscan Red 126878 Round Roof Box Cars: B-401 PRR Tuscan Red 77610 B-402 B&LE Tuscan Red 90104 B-403 N&W Tuscan Red 47290 B-404 SAL Tuscan Red 24115 Wood Sheath Box Cars: B-501 UP Tuscan Red 120004 B-502 CNW Tuscan Red 143348 B-503 FEC Tuscan Red 17050 B-504 DL&W Tuscan Red 45000 Plywood Panel Box Cars: B-601 GN Orange - Green Lettering 2527, 2549 B-602 GN Yellow - Black Lettering 44070 B-603 GN Box Car Red 11874 B-604 GN White 21499 B-605 GN Fire Red 21496 Sectional Wood Sheath Box Cars: B-701 ATSF Tuscan Red 118900, 118905 ----------O--------- Well these listings aren't staying spread out, but at least they're not jumbled into each other. Okay, let's try these box car kits. Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4398	From: erieberk	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Continued from previous post: Kit # Roadname Color of Sides Road Numbers Stock Cars: S-100 SR Box Car Red 45912 S-101 UP Yellow - Red Lettering 47720, 47723, 47802, 47806, 47850, 47853, 47992, 47996 S-102 PRR Box Car Red 128114 S-103 D&RGW Black - White Lettering 37089, 37140, 37158, 37268, 37565, 39242 S-104 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 47100, 47158, 47300, 47301, 47411 S-105 NYC Box Car Red 22150, 23365, 23383, 27813, 28074, 28145, 50656 S-106 ATSF Box Car Red 54979, 55333, 60392, 60638 S-107 CM&StP Box Car Red 104001 S-108 T&P Box Car Red 22225 S-109 MP Box Car Red 53002 S-110 ACL Box Car Red 140203, 140214, 140225, 140236, 140278, 140317 Low Side Gondolas: G-100 SR Tuscan Red 55400, 56492 G-101 ERIE Black 18891, 18892 G-102 N&W Black 91511 G-103 EJ&E Medium Green 30448, 31507 High Side Gondolas: G-200 ATSF Tuscan Red 74146 G-201 UP Tuscan Red - Orange Lettering Small Letters & Numbers - 65371 Large Letters & Numbers - 66177 G-202 IC Tuscan Red 85204, 99188 G-203 CG G-204 CNW Black 69763 G-205 MC Black 15317 G-300 C&O (Round End) Black 36000, 36215 Ore Hopper Cars -- Taper Sides: H-100 GN Tuscan Red 88373 H-101 SOO Line Tuscan Red 81711 H-102 CNW Tuscan Red 121333 H-103 LS&I Tuscan Red 7135 Ore Hopper Cars -- Rectangular Sides: H-150 GN Tuscan Red 91636 H-151 DM&IR Tuscan Red 26593 H-152 CN Tuscan Red 114714 H-152 MILW Tuscan Red 76273 Sand & Gravel Hoppers: H-300 "Roundhouse" Yellow - Black Lettering (w/Decals) H-301 StL&SW Tuscan Red 70790 Black (w/Decals) 70790 H-302 CP Tuscan Red 375300 Black (w/Decals) 375300 Triple Hoppers: H-401 D&RGW Black 18950 H-402 UP Tuscan Red 6600 H-403 C&EI Tuscan Red H-404 WM Tuscan Red H-501 C&O (Round End) Black 101049 200-Ton Flat Cars: F-100 PRR Tuscan Red 470200, 470201, 470202 F-101 CNW Tuscan Red 48051, 48053 F-102 D&H Black 499040, 499041 F-103 NYC Black 499042, 499043 F-104 Westinghouse Black WECX 100 ----------O---------- Last Page of list coming up next . . . Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4399	From: erieberk	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: R-101 GN (WFEX) R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 Cabooses: C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 C-114 SP Caboose Red C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals DB-2 Burlington-CB&Q Fire Red decals DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 Economy Series Flat Cars: F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks Late Production Series: Metal Sheath Box Cars: B-1 ATSF Fire Red B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 ----------O---------- I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray Wetzel b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4400	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel

Great!!  Looks fine. Garry On 10/22/07, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: Kit # Roadname Color of Sides Road Numbers (White Lettering Except Where Noted) Metal Sheath Box Cars: B-100 UP Tuscan Red 187085 B-101 NYC&StL (NKP) Tuscan Red 13399 B-102 SR Tuscan Red 10029 B-103 IC Tuscan Red 18862 B-104 PRR Tuscan Red 78500 B-105 ACL Tuscan Red 20723 B-106 SLSF Tuscan Red 17270 B-107 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 97300 B-108 NYC Tuscan Red 165933 B-109 CNJ Tuscan Red 21671 B-110 C&O Tuscan Red - White Lettering 15362 Tuscan Red - Gold Lettering 15362 B-111 EJ&E Medium Green 60900 B-112 CRP Coach Green - Gold Lettering 22499 B-113 Monon (CIL) Gray - Red Lettering 499 B-114 N&B Cement Gray - Black Lettering 701 B-115 MEC B-116 CN Tuscan Red 524270 B-117 WM Tuscan Red 28063 B-118 B&M Blue 77899 B-119 NH (NYNH&H) Red B-120 NH " Black B-121 C&IM Medium Green w/Maroon Stripe 16021 ---------O--------- Thought I'd try this listing of the 40' standard box cars first, and stop here to see how it posts. As typed, the columns all line up, but that may well change to a jumble as soon as I hit SEND; let see!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4401	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /MDC Metal kits HO.xls Uploaded by : chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...> Description : List of MDC Roundhouse metal HO kits You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/MDC%20Metal%20kits%20HO.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4402	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel

That's a bunch and a half!   ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:05 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel Kit # Roadname Color of Sides Road Numbers (White Lettering Except Where Noted) Metal Sheath Box Cars: B-100 UP Tuscan Red 187085 B-101 NYC&StL (NKP) Tuscan Red 13399 B-102 SR Tuscan Red 10029 B-103 IC Tuscan Red 18862 B-104 PRR Tuscan Red 78500 B-105 ACL Tuscan Red 20723 B-106 SLSF Tuscan Red 17270 B-107 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 97300 B-108 NYC Tuscan Red 165933 B-109 CNJ Tuscan Red 21671 B-110 C&O Tuscan Red - White Lettering 15362 Tuscan Red - Gold Lettering 15362 B-111 EJ&E Medium Green 60900 B-112 CRP Coach Green - Gold Lettering 22499 B-113 Monon (CIL) Gray - Red Lettering 499 B-114 N&B Cement Gray - Black Lettering 701 B-115 MEC B-116 CN Tuscan Red 524270 B-117 WM Tuscan Red 28063 B-118 B&M Blue 77899 B-119 NH (NYNH&H) Red B-120 NH " Black B-121 C&IM Medium Green w/Maroon Stripe 16021 ---------O-- ------- Thought I'd try this listing of the 40' standard box cars first, and stop here to see how it posts. As typed, the columns all line up, but that may well change to a jumble as soon as I hit SEND; let see!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4403	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

B-201 was my first "real" HO kit--for my 7th birthday.  I learned to file off flash and thread holes with "self-tapping" screws.  ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel Continued from previous post: Kit# Roadname Color of Sides Road Number Horizontal Rib Box Cars: B-200 MILW Olympian Tuscan Red 18512 B-201 MILW Hiawatha Tuscan Red 23916 B-202 CM&StP Olympian Tuscan Red 21054 B-203 CM&StP Hiawatha Tuscan Red 21054 Truss Side Box Cars: B-300 ATSF Tuscan Red 128905 B-301 SAL Tuscan Red 15411 B-302 CB&Q Tuscan Red 28000 B-303 NP Tuscan Red 15441 B-304 SP Tuscan Red 29966 B-305 L&N Tuscan Red 13149 B-306 MP Tuscan Red (I-GN) 9760 B-307 GM&N Tuscan Red 20111 B-308 RI Tuscan Red 142738 B-309 CP Tuscan Red 205314 B-310 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 79812 B-311 StL&SF Tuscan Red 126878 Round Roof Box Cars: B-401 PRR Tuscan Red 77610 B-402 B&LE Tuscan Red 90104 B-403 N&W Tuscan Red 47290 B-404 SAL Tuscan Red 24115 Wood Sheath Box Cars: B-501 UP Tuscan Red 120004 B-502 CNW Tuscan Red 143348 B-503 FEC Tuscan Red 17050 B-504 DL&W Tuscan Red 45000 Plywood Panel Box Cars: B-601 GN Orange - Green Lettering 2527, 2549 B-602 GN Yellow - Black Lettering 44070 B-603 GN Box Car Red 11874 B-604 GN White 21499 B-605 GN Fire Red 21496 Sectional Wood Sheath Box Cars: B-701 ATSF Tuscan Red 118900, 118905 ----------O- -------- Well these listings aren't staying spread out, but at least they're not jumbled into each other. Okay, let's try these box car kits. Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4404	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by

Ray, I added the four emails into one Excel file and posted it at this site.  Thanks for posting.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 1:54 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel   Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: R-101 GN (WFEX) R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 Cabooses: C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 C-114 SP Caboose Red C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals DB-2 Burlington-CB& Q Fire Red decals DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 Economy Series Flat Cars: F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks Late Production Series: Metal Sheath Box Cars: B-1 ATSF Fire Red B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 ----------O- --------- I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray Wetzel b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4405	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Wasn't there a B-8xx series?  The catalog I found is not complete--I know that several cars are missing from the lists--including the reefer, high-side gon, 4-truck flat, and the hoppers, as well as the "economy" kits.  Will look more tomorrow.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 9:47 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel Continued from previous post: Kit # Roadname Color of Sides Road Numbers Stock Cars: S-100 SR Box Car Red 45912 S-101 UP Yellow - Red Lettering 47720, 47723, 47802, 47806, 47850, 47853, 47992, 47996 S-102 PRR Box Car Red 128114 S-103 D&RGW Black - White Lettering 37089, 37140, 37158, 37268, 37565, 39242 S-104 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 47100, 47158, 47300, 47301, 47411 S-105 NYC Box Car Red 22150, 23365, 23383, 27813, 28074, 28145, 50656 S-106 ATSF Box Car Red 54979, 55333, 60392, 60638 S-107 CM&StP Box Car Red 104001 S-108 T&P Box Car Red 22225 S-109 MP Box Car Red 53002 S-110 ACL Box Car Red 140203, 140214, 140225, 140236, 140278, 140317 Low Side Gondolas: G-100 SR Tuscan Red 55400, 56492 G-101 ERIE Black 18891, 18892 G-102 N&W Black 91511 G-103 EJ&E Medium Green 30448, 31507 High Side Gondolas: G-200 ATSF Tuscan Red 74146 G-201 UP Tuscan Red - Orange Lettering Small Letters & Numbers - 65371 Large Letters & Numbers - 66177 G-202 IC Tuscan Red 85204, 99188 G-203 CG G-204 CNW Black 69763 G-205 MC Black 15317 G-300 C&O (Round End) Black 36000, 36215 Ore Hopper Cars -- Taper Sides: H-100 GN Tuscan Red 88373 H-101 SOO Line Tuscan Red 81711 H-102 CNW Tuscan Red 121333 H-103 LS&I Tuscan Red 7135 Ore Hopper Cars -- Rectangular Sides: H-150 GN Tuscan Red 91636 H-151 DM&IR Tuscan Red 26593 H-152 CN Tuscan Red 114714 H-152 MILW Tuscan Red 76273 Sand & Gravel Hoppers: H-300 "Roundhouse" Yellow - Black Lettering (w/Decals) H-301 StL&SW Tuscan Red 70790 Black (w/Decals) 70790 H-302 CP Tuscan Red 375300 Black (w/Decals) 375300 Triple Hoppers: H-401 D&RGW Black 18950 H-402 UP Tuscan Red 6600 H-403 C&EI Tuscan Red H-404 WM Tuscan Red H-501 C&O (Round End) Black 101049 200-Ton Flat Cars: F-100 PRR Tuscan Red 470200, 470201, 470202 F-101 CNW Tuscan Red 48051, 48053 F-102 D&H Black 499040, 499041 F-103 NYC Black 499042, 499043 F-104 Westinghouse Black WECX 100 ----------O- --------- Last Page of list coming up next . . . Ray

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4406	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Was the F-1/F-2 flat car the little 30 foot car with the sort-of fish-belly sides?  I count that one as the transition piece from the metal to the plastic line.  It had the die-cast underframe, with a plastic body.  It marked the change in production materials.  While there may have been some re-runs of the metal cars, this was the turnover point.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:54 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: R-101 GN (WFEX) R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 Cabooses: C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 C-114 SP Caboose Red C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals DB-2 Burlington-CB& Q Fire Red decals DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 Economy Series Flat Cars: F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks Late Production Series: Metal Sheath Box Cars: B-1 ATSF Fire Red B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 ----------O- --------- I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray Wetzel b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4407	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO

I'd like to see that, but cannot spend the time right now to get set up with Excel.  Is it available any other way?  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New file uploaded to vintageHO Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /MDC Metal kits HO.xls Uploaded by : chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@verizon. net> Description : List of MDC Roundhouse metal HO kits You can access this file at the URL: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ files/MDC% 20Metal%20kits% 20HO.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help. yahoo.com/ help/us/groups/ files Regards, chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@verizon. net>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4408	From: donvdh	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Zamac components - acronym

I'm still pursuing various ways to color my zamac parts. A while back someone asked about anodizing. Below is the acronym ZAMAC definition and 2 websites which describe anodizing at home. A Mr. Ron Newman, author of the lower website article, has not yet replied as to the ability or a recommendation as to whether or not Zamac can be properly anodizing. A component list of the alloy, I apologize for my earlier misunderstanding of alloy or suspended mixture, shows that all of the component materials are excellent electrical conductors, which is at least the first requirement. I hope this helps someone. I'm still pursuing more info about the possibilities. I did find that powder coating tends to mask some of the finer details cast into the pieces. Don Van Der Horn    Zinc Aluminum Magnesium and Copper (alloy)   http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/anodize.shtml   http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize99.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4409	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym

MDC had a blackening solution that included oxalic acid, as I recall.  You might also try some of the cold-type gun bluing compounds.  These range from a "plum brown" to a deep blue-black.  Try Wal-Mart, of any good gun shop.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Zamac components - acronym I'm still pursuing various ways to color my zamac parts. A while back someone asked about anodizing. Below is the acronym ZAMAC definition and 2 websites which describe anodizing at home. A Mr. Ron Newman, author of the lower website article, has not yet replied as to the ability or a recommendation as to whether or not Zamac can be properly anodizing. A component list of the alloy, I apologize for my earlier misunderstanding of alloy or suspended mixture, shows that all of the component materials are excellent electrical conductors, which is at least the first requirement. I hope this helps someone. I'm still pursuing more info about the possibilities. I did find that powder coating tends to mask some of the finer details cast into the pieces. Don Van Der Horn    Zinc Aluminum Magnesium and Copper (alloy)   http://www.warpig. com/paintball/ technical/ anodize.shtml   http://www.focuser. com/atm/anodize/ anodize99. html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4410	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

I don't recall if I asked this before.  Somewhere along the line in the mid 50's MDC announced an HOn3 version of the SP 0-6-0 switcher.  Did this ever actually get produced?   I have an untouched kit for the 0-6-0 made in 1948--able to date it fairly accurately as MDSC changed their address that year and the instructions have one address, while the box has another. Address data from MR ads.  One difference then was that the cab was five separate castings.gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:54 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: R-101 GN (WFEX) R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 Cabooses: C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 C-114 SP Caboose Red C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals DB-2 Burlington-CB& Q Fire Red decals DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 Economy Series Flat Cars: F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks Late Production Series: Metal Sheath Box Cars: B-1 ATSF Fire Red B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 ----------O- --------- I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray Wetzel b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4411	From: donvdh	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: (no subject)

Thanks, Glenn. Another great lead, and much simpler. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4412	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re:

these chemicals, and the associated cleaner/degreasers, should be used with rubber gloves.  I get them by the box at Harbor Freight Tools.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: donvdh To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Thanks, Glenn. Another great lead, and much simpler. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4413	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym

Hi Gentleman,   If you go to the link below, you can find all materials and kits for plating all types of metals, including Zamac.   In case the link doesn't show it's : caswellplating.com/kits/index     http://caswellplating.com/kits/index.html   Brian See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4414	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel

I'm glad it turned out as good as it did. I was afraid it all might have ran into one, as one sentence after another like one large paragraph, but I guess my use of the spacer bar helped prevent that. That's why you see the jumbled description at the very bottom, at the end of the list. I was using a series of the longest possible phrases I would encounter in any one description, not attempting anything factual, just to get an idea of the spacing on one line needed to prevent it all from condensing. Then I forgot to erase it. Well, at least it seemed to work. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...> wrote: > > Great!! Looks fine. > Garry > > On 10/22/07, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: > > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Sides Road Numbers > > (White Lettering Except Where Noted) > > > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > > > B-100 UP Tuscan Red 187085 > > B-101 NYC&StL (NKP) Tuscan Red 13399 > > B-102 SR Tuscan Red 10029 > > B-103 IC Tuscan Red 18862 > > B-104 PRR Tuscan Red 78500 > > B-105 ACL Tuscan Red 20723 > > B-106 SLSF Tuscan Red 17270 > > B-107 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 97300 > > B-108 NYC Tuscan Red 165933 > > B-109 CNJ Tuscan Red 21671 > > B-110 C&O Tuscan Red - White Lettering 15362 > > Tuscan Red - Gold Lettering 15362 > > B-111 EJ&E Medium Green 60900 > > B-112 CRP Coach Green - Gold Lettering 22499 > > B-113 Monon (CIL) Gray - Red Lettering 499 > > B-114 N&B Cement Gray - Black Lettering 701 > > B-115 MEC > > B-116 CN Tuscan Red 524270 > > B-117 WM Tuscan Red 28063 > > B-118 B&M Blue 77899 > > B-119 NH (NYNH&H) Red > > B-120 NH " Black > > B-121 C&IM Medium Green w/Maroon Stripe 16021 > > > > ---------O--------- > > > > Thought I'd try this listing of the 40' standard box cars first, and > > stop here to see how it posts. As typed, the columns all line up, > > but that may well change to a jumble as soon as I hit SEND; let see! > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4415	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray

Chuck, Thanks for making the Excel file. That's a lot of work and is appreciated. I split this up into four emails, since I felt it would have been too long for many members to read as one posting. In addition to what I have in the MDC Roundhouse Group files, I also filled out an Excel spreadsheet there with complete info (all numbers, etc.), but it was never posted as the member helping me on filing PDF files, etc., never followed through -- and I just am not that computor savy to know how to post a spreadsheet. I do hope that corrections can be made to your spreadsheet, but otherwise it looks great. It does need the following corrections to be accurate though (yeah, I know, it was a big job): (1) You need to add Horizontal Rib Box Cars as the style above that grouping of cars (it was ommitted). (2) You did not include the road number (car number) - 16153 - for the F-102 D&H 200-Ton Flat Car. Instead, you have the first two car numbers of F-103 NYC in the D&H slot. NYC has four numbers. (3) I only see six car numbers for S-101 UP stock car; the spread sheet on my computor only goes over as far as "I". I assume the two missing car numbers are beyond that to the right of the screen but I can't see them -- maybe its just my computor that shows it like that(?). S-101 UP should have eight car numbers. (4) Not really necessary to do, but as I read it, the redundant Catalog #'s you included on the description line, at the top of each kit group at the top of each kit group seems confusing to me, so you might want to eliminate them. If thet can't be eliminated entirely, I'd replace them with XXXX (or B-000) so no one thinks these are Catalog #'s. (6) Again, in the Stock Car listing, I don't see Road Number 50656 -- please check my list. (7) Last item, you can eliminate the garbage/blurb ("cm7stp.olympian medium . . . ") at the very end of the spreadsheet, which was not part of my list. Many thanks again, Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Ray, I added the four emails into one Excel file and posted it at this site. > Thanks for posting. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of erieberk > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 1:54 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray > Wetzel > > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > Cabooses: > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > C-114 SP Caboose Red > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > DB-2 Burlington-CB&Q Fire Red decals > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > Late Production Series: > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > ----------O---------- > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > Wetzel > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4416	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel

Yeah, you could say that! There are a few, but they're easily identified as no one else made all-cast box cars and reefers. The problem though is that anyone could repaint and lettered them, and if you didn't know the original car numbers, you might not get the "real thing" to add to your collection if you bought a built up piece. Hoppers are a different story, as there were a number of manufacturers who produced them in different variations. Here, you have to know what you're looking for, but again the Roadnames and car numbers should help. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > That's a bunch and a half! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:05 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Sides Road Numbers > (White Lettering Except Where Noted) > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > B-100 UP Tuscan Red 187085 > B-101 NYC&StL (NKP) Tuscan Red 13399 > B-102 SR Tuscan Red 10029 > B-103 IC Tuscan Red 18862 > B-104 PRR Tuscan Red 78500 > B-105 ACL Tuscan Red 20723 > B-106 SLSF Tuscan Red 17270 > B-107 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 97300 > B-108 NYC Tuscan Red 165933 > B-109 CNJ Tuscan Red 21671 > B-110 C&O Tuscan Red - White Lettering 15362 > Tuscan Red - Gold Lettering 15362 > B-111 EJ&E Medium Green 60900 > B-112 CRP Coach Green - Gold Lettering 22499 > B-113 Monon (CIL) Gray - Red Lettering 499 > B-114 N&B Cement Gray - Black Lettering 701 > B-115 MEC > B-116 CN Tuscan Red 524270 > B-117 WM Tuscan Red 28063 > B-118 B&M Blue 77899 > B-119 NH (NYNH&H) Red > B-120 NH " Black > B-121 C&IM Medium Green w/Maroon Stripe 16021 > > ---------O--------- > > Thought I'd try this listing of the 40' standard box cars first, and > stop here to see how it posts. As typed, the columns all line up, > but that may well change to a jumble as soon as I hit SEND; let see! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4417	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

No, there certainly was no B-8xx series in MDC's production of metal cars. There may have been such a series in plastic cars, but not that I'm aware of. As for "several cars . . . missing from the lists" please recheck my lists again, as all the reefers, high-side gons, 4-truck (200-Ton) flats and hoppers are there, as well as the "economy" kits -- Can't miss them if you look! Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Wasn't there a B-8xx series? The catalog I found is not complete-- I know that several cars are missing from the lists--including the reefer, high-side gon, 4-truck flat, and the hoppers, as well as the "economy" kits. Will look more tomorrow. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 9:47 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel > > > Continued from previous post: > > Kit # Roadname Color of Sides Road Numbers > > Stock Cars: > > S-100 SR Box Car Red 45912 > S-101 UP Yellow - Red Lettering 47720, > 47723, 47802, 47806, 47850, 47853, 47992, > 47996 > S-102 PRR Box Car Red 128114 > S-103 D&RGW Black - White Lettering 37089, > 37140, 37158, 37268, 37565, > 39242 > S-104 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 47100, > 47158, 47300, 47301, > 47411 > S-105 NYC Box Car Red 22150, > 23365, 23383, 27813, 28074, 28145, > 50656 > S-106 ATSF Box Car Red 54979, > 55333, 60392, > 60638 > S-107 CM&StP Box Car Red 104001 > S-108 T&P Box Car Red 22225 > S-109 MP Box Car Red 53002 > S-110 ACL Box Car Red 140203, > 140214, 140225, 140236, 140278, 140317 > > Low Side Gondolas: > > G-100 SR Tuscan Red 55400, 56492 > G-101 ERIE Black 18891, 18892 > G-102 N&W Black 91511 > G-103 EJ&E Medium Green 30448, 31507 > > High Side Gondolas: > > G-200 ATSF Tuscan Red 74146 > G-201 UP Tuscan Red - Orange Lettering Small > Letters & Numbers - 65371 Large Letters & Numbers - 66177 > G-202 IC Tuscan Red 85204, 99188 > G-203 CG > G-204 CNW Black 69763 > G-205 MC Black 15317 > G-300 C&O (Round End) Black 36000, 36215 > > Ore Hopper Cars -- Taper Sides: > > H-100 GN Tuscan Red 88373 > H-101 SOO Line Tuscan Red 81711 > H-102 CNW Tuscan Red 121333 > H-103 LS&I Tuscan Red 7135 > > Ore Hopper Cars -- Rectangular Sides: > > H-150 GN Tuscan Red 91636 > H-151 DM&IR Tuscan Red 26593 > H-152 CN Tuscan Red 114714 > H-152 MILW Tuscan Red 76273 > > Sand & Gravel Hoppers: > > H-300 "Roundhouse" Yellow - Black Lettering (w/Decals) > H-301 StL&SW Tuscan Red 70790 > Black (w/Decals) 70790 > H-302 CP Tuscan Red 375300 > Black (w/Decals) 375300 > > Triple Hoppers: > > H-401 D&RGW Black 18950 > H-402 UP Tuscan Red 6600 > H-403 C&EI Tuscan Red > H-404 WM Tuscan Red > H-501 C&O (Round End) Black 101049 > > 200-Ton Flat Cars: > > F-100 PRR Tuscan Red 470200, > 470201, 470202 > F-101 CNW Tuscan Red 48051, 48053 > F-102 D&H Black 499040, > 499041 > F-103 NYC Black 499042, > 499043 > F-104 Westinghouse Black WECX 100 > > ----------O---------- > > Last Page of list coming up next . . . Ray >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4418	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Not having the F-1 and F-2 flat cars in my collection, I hadn't known they had plastic bodies, but assumed they were one-piece cast metal very similar to those that Mantua produced. They are 30' "fish- belly" cars though; the first I've seen them mentioned was in the 1959 catalog of all die-cast kits (no plastic yet), so had thought they were metal as well. With a plastic body (and metal underframe) this does now look as if its the first car in their transition period; very interesting. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Was the F-1/F-2 flat car the little 30 foot car with the sort-of fish-belly sides? I count that one as the transition piece from the metal to the plastic line. It had the die-cast underframe, with a plastic body. It marked the change in production materials. While there may have been some re-runs of the metal cars, this was the turnover point. > > gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:54 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > Cabooses: > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > C-114 SP Caboose Red > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > DB-2 Burlington-CB&Q Fire Red decals > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > Late Production Series: > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > ----------O---------- > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > Wetzel > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4419	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

I've never looked for one, so I can't say that I ever saw one. It is listed in their 1957 catalog as Model # 3L1 for the Switcher Kit, complete with tender, for $21.50. Also listed as # 3L2 for the loco kit only (less tender) for $$17.95, # 3L4 for the Swithcher Kit, complete (less Motor)_ for $17.95, # 3L3 for the Tender Kit only for $3.95 and # 3L50 for the Switcher (complete), assembled - RTR - and painted (unlettered) for $31.50. It would seem as though it was produced, although maybe for a short time only. I don't see it in the 1959 catalog. The 0-6-0 Switcher kit (their first), was scheduled for release on October 15, 1947 and sold for $29 complete with tender. MDC's address at this time was 738 Ceres Avenue, Los Angeles 21, California. Their 1948 catalog has their address as 5710 S. Paloma Ave., Los Angeles 11, California. That may partially explain your two different addresses. Yes, the early cab was 5-piece. It could be bought as a complete cab kit ( # 01-006) for $1.55, or as separate pieces if needed -- # 01-212 Front Plate, # 01-213 Back Plate, # 01- 214 Left Side, # 01-215 Right Side and # 01-216 Roof, at 30 cents per piece. That's 5 cents less when bought as separate parts rather than a complete kit -- they lost money on that deal (LOL). Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I don't recall if I asked this before. Somewhere along the line in the mid 50's MDC announced an HOn3 version of the SP 0-6-0 switcher. Did this ever actually get produced? > > I have an untouched kit for the 0-6-0 made in 1948--able to date it fairly accurately as MDSC changed their address that year and the instructions have one address, while the box has another. Address data from MR ads. One difference then was that the cab was five separate castings.gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:54 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > Cabooses: > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > C-114 SP Caboose Red > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > DB-2 Burlington-CB&Q Fire Red decals > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > Late Production Series: > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > ----------O---------- > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > Wetzel > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4420	From: erieberk	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym

Years ago (mid-1970's), I used a product called "Hobby Black"; it was made by Birchwood Casey Division of Fuller Laboratories exclusively for RAC Distributing Co. Walthers sold it, but it could be found in any hobby shop. It blackened nickle/silver, brass, steel, copper and zamac, as stated on the label, but not stainless steel or aluminum. It contained Methyl Alchohol and Selenium Dioxide. Try eBay for new old stock on the chance someone may still have some. It doesn't go bad -- I still have half of a 4 ounce jar and it works as well now as it did back then. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > I'm still pursuing various ways to color my zamac parts. A while back someone asked about anodizing. Below is the acronym ZAMAC definition and 2 websites which describe anodizing at home. A Mr. Ron Newman, author of the lower website article, has not yet replied as to the ability or a recommendation as to whether or not Zamac can be properly anodizing. A component list of the alloy, I apologize for my earlier misunderstanding of alloy or suspended mixture, shows that all of the component materials are excellent electrical conductors, which is at least the first requirement. I hope this helps someone. I'm still pursuing more info about the possibilities. I did find that powder coating tends to mask some of the finer details cast into the pieces. Don Van Der Horn > > Zinc Aluminum Magnesium and Copper (alloy) > > http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/anodize.shtml > > http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize99.html >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4421	From: nycrrmitch	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: > > Attached is a scan of the assembly of the mechanism, <snip> > Roger Aultman > > >snip< Roger: I just found the Roundhouse/MDC 0-6-0 mechanism assembly jpg in the files. Would you be willing to do the entire instruction sheet? It would be nice for my records. Thanks, Joe Mitchell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4422	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's

Scans of the instructions are in the files, also a picture of the kit in the original box.  I bought this minus the mechanism, includes boiler casting, tender casting, tender underframe, original box, instructions.   Will sell for $15.00, including shipping to continental US.   Roger Aultman         --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: > > Attached is a scan of the assembly of the mechanism, <snip> > Roger Aultman > > >snip< Roger: I just found the Roundhouse/MDC 0-6-0 mechanism assembly jpg in the files. Would you be willing to do the entire instruction sheet? It would be nice for my records. Thanks, Joe Mitchell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4423	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - Blackener

Ray et al,   Birchwood Casey still makes this product(or something so close as to be the same) and it's called "Brass Black" and is sold in many places. Unlike Hobby Black(which I haven't seen in years), it doesn't like to be dilutred - or at least, not much. Gosh it's fast, too!   B.C has a website, whic also gives their phone number.   They directed me to a local so-called discount place(which also functions as a hunting supply) where they had it. Good stuff.   I gave up on Wal*Mart and the like.   yours truly,   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: Years ago (mid-1970's), I used a product called "Hobby Black"; it was made by Birchwood Casey Division of Fuller Laboratories exclusively for RAC Distributing Co. Walthers sold it, but it could be found in any hobby shop. It blackened nickle/silver, brass, steel, copper and zamac, as stated on the label, but not stainless steel or aluminum. It contained Methyl Alchohol and Selenium Dioxide. Try eBay for new old stock on the chance someone may still have some. It doesn't go bad -- I still have half of a 4 ounce jar and it works as well now as it did back then. Ray __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4424	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] New file uploaded to vintageHO

Once the corrections get done we will see what can be done.  Here is a link to a free Excel viewer   http://office. microsoft. com/downloads/ 2000/xlviewer. aspx   It should not take long to download.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn476 Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] New file uploaded to vintageHO   I'd like to see that, but cannot spend the time right now to get set up with Excel.  Is it available any other way?  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New file uploaded to vintageHO   Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /MDC Metal kits HO.xls Uploaded by : chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@verizon. net> Description : List of MDC Roundhouse metal HO kits You can access this file at the URL: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ files/MDC% 20Metal%20kits% 20HO.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help. yahoo.com/ help/us/groups/ files Regards, chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@verizon. net>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4425	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendiu

Ray, you are welcome.  I have added the corrections to the file in the group site and cleaned it up some so that all car numbers appear now.  If you see anything else that needs attention.  Let me know. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel   Chuck, Thanks for making the Excel file. That's a lot of work and is appreciated. I split this up into four emails, since I felt it would have been too long for many members to read as one posting. In addition to what I have in the MDC Roundhouse Group files, I also filled out an Excel spreadsheet there with complete info (all numbers, etc.), but it was never posted as the member helping me on filing PDF files, etc., never followed through -- and I just am not that computor savy to know how to post a spreadsheet. I do hope that corrections can be made to your spreadsheet, but otherwise it looks great. It does need the following corrections to be accurate though (yeah, I know, it was a big job): (1) You need to add Horizontal Rib Box Cars as the style above that grouping of cars (it was ommitted). (2) You did not include the road number (car number) - 16153 - for the F-102 D&H 200-Ton Flat Car. Instead, you have the first two car numbers of F-103 NYC in the D&H slot. NYC has four numbers. (3) I only see six car numbers for S-101 UP stock car; the spread sheet on my computor only goes over as far as "I". I assume the two missing car numbers are beyond that to the right of the screen but I can't see them -- maybe its just my computor that shows it like that(?). S-101 UP should have eight car numbers. (4) Not really necessary to do, but as I read it, the redundant Catalog #'s you included on the description line, at the top of each kit group at the top of each kit group seems confusing to me, so you might want to eliminate them. If thet can't be eliminated entirely, I'd replace them with XXXX (or B-000) so no one thinks these are Catalog #'s. (6) Again, in the Stock Car listing, I don't see Road Number 50656 -- please check my list. (7) Last item, you can eliminate the garbage/blurb ("cm7stp.olympian medium . . . ") at the very end of the spreadsheet, which was not part of my list. Many thanks again, Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@. ..> wrote: > > Ray, I added the four emails into one Excel file and posted it at this site. > Thanks for posting. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf > Of erieberk > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 1:54 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray > Wetzel > > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > Cabooses: > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > C-114 SP Caboose Red > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > DB-2 Burlington-CB& Q Fire Red decals > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > Late Production Series: > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > ----------O- --------- > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > Wetzel > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4426	From: donvdh	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: anodizing azamac

I received an answer from one of the authors of the anodizing information I posted yesterday. Apparently it won't work, or at least won't be effective, for zamac. Don V   Anodizing only works on purer aluminum alloys. sorry Ron

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4427	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

No--I said that there were several missing from the list in the catalog I have--I know there is another one somewhere.  I did a clinic on "Ancient HO" for the 50th anniversary PCR convention. But somewhere I got the notion that there was an eighth boxcar type.  It should be easy enough to tell a decal repaint or renumber, gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:02 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel No, there certainly was no B-8xx series in MDC's production of metal cars. There may have been such a series in plastic cars, but not that I'm aware of. As for "several cars . . . missing from the lists" please recheck my lists again, as all the reefers, high-side gons, 4-truck (200-Ton) flats and hoppers are there, as well as the "economy" kits -- Can't miss them if you look! Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > Wasn't there a B-8xx series? The catalog I found is not complete-- I know that several cars are missing from the lists--including the reefer, high-side gon, 4-truck flat, and the hoppers, as well as the "economy" kits. Will look more tomorrow. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 9:47 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel > > > Continued from previous post: > > Kit # Roadname Color of Sides Road Numbers > > Stock Cars: > > S-100 SR Box Car Red 45912 > S-101 UP Yellow - Red Lettering 47720, > 47723, 47802, 47806, 47850, 47853, 47992, > 47996 > S-102 PRR Box Car Red 128114 > S-103 D&RGW Black - White Lettering 37089, > 37140, 37158, 37268, 37565, > 39242 > S-104 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 47100, > 47158, 47300, 47301, > 47411 > S-105 NYC Box Car Red 22150, > 23365, 23383, 27813, 28074, 28145, > 50656 > S-106 ATSF Box Car Red 54979, > 55333, 60392, > 60638 > S-107 CM&StP Box Car Red 104001 > S-108 T&P Box Car Red 22225 > S-109 MP Box Car Red 53002 > S-110 ACL Box Car Red 140203, > 140214, 140225, 140236, 140278, 140317 > > Low Side Gondolas: > > G-100 SR Tuscan Red 55400, 56492 > G-101 ERIE Black 18891, 18892 > G-102 N&W Black 91511 > G-103 EJ&E Medium Green 30448, 31507 > > High Side Gondolas: > > G-200 ATSF Tuscan Red 74146 > G-201 UP Tuscan Red - Orange Lettering Small > Letters & Numbers - 65371 Large Letters & Numbers - 66177 > G-202 IC Tuscan Red 85204, 99188 > G-203 CG > G-204 CNW Black 69763 > G-205 MC Black 15317 > G-300 C&O (Round End) Black 36000, 36215 > > Ore Hopper Cars -- Taper Sides: > > H-100 GN Tuscan Red 88373 > H-101 SOO Line Tuscan Red 81711 > H-102 CNW Tuscan Red 121333 > H-103 LS&I Tuscan Red 7135 > > Ore Hopper Cars -- Rectangular Sides: > > H-150 GN Tuscan Red 91636 > H-151 DM&IR Tuscan Red 26593 > H-152 CN Tuscan Red 114714 > H-152 MILW Tuscan Red 76273 > > Sand & Gravel Hoppers: > > H-300 "Roundhouse" Yellow - Black Lettering (w/Decals) > H-301 StL&SW Tuscan Red 70790 > Black (w/Decals) 70790 > H-302 CP Tuscan Red 375300 > Black (w/Decals) 375300 > > Triple Hoppers: > > H-401 D&RGW Black 18950 > H-402 UP Tuscan Red 6600 > H-403 C&EI Tuscan Red > H-404 WM Tuscan Red > H-501 C&O (Round End) Black 101049 > > 200-Ton Flat Cars: > > F-100 PRR Tuscan Red 470200, > 470201, 470202 > F-101 CNW Tuscan Red 48051, 48053 > F-102 D&H Black 499040, > 499041 > F-103 NYC Black 499042, > 499043 > F-104 Westinghouse Black WECX 100 > > ----------O- --------- > > Last Page of list coming up next . . . Ray >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4428	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

I was still in high school--was getting the MDC catalog on a subscription basis--as the new cars came out.  The F-1 was big news, as they were going to plastic bodies there.  Subsequent cars lasted right up to the Athearn takeover.    On another subject--I inquired without response looking for an Athearn RDC power truck--for the original stainless steel car.  I am now discussing having a truck made by a firm in Australia--they make trucks for LaBelle's trolley kits. If I have them do it, they would then have the measurements to make the truck for anyone else seeking one.  gj     ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel Not having the F-1 and F-2 flat cars in my collection, I hadn't known they had plastic bodies, but assumed they were one-piece cast metal very similar to those that Mantua produced. They are 30' "fish- belly" cars though; the first I've seen them mentioned was in the 1959 catalog of all die-cast kits (no plastic yet), so had thought they were metal as well. With a plastic body (and metal underframe) this does now look as if its the first car in their transition period; very interesting. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > Was the F-1/F-2 flat car the little 30 foot car with the sort-of fish-belly sides? I count that one as the transition piece from the metal to the plastic line. It had the die-cast underframe, with a plastic body. It marked the change in production materials. While there may have been some re-runs of the metal cars, this was the turnover point. > > gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:54 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > Cabooses: > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > C-114 SP Caboose Red > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > DB-2 Burlington-CB& Q Fire Red decals > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > Late Production Series: > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > ----------O- --------- > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > Wetzel > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4429	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

the complete cab kit probably included the screws to put it together.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:59 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel I've never looked for one, so I can't say that I ever saw one. It is listed in their 1957 catalog as Model # 3L1 for the Switcher Kit, complete with tender, for $21.50. Also listed as # 3L2 for the loco kit only (less tender) for $$17.95, # 3L4 for the Swithcher Kit, complete (less Motor)_ for $17.95, # 3L3 for the Tender Kit only for $3.95 and # 3L50 for the Switcher (complete), assembled - RTR - and painted (unlettered) for $31.50. It would seem as though it was produced, although maybe for a short time only. I don't see it in the 1959 catalog. The 0-6-0 Switcher kit (their first), was scheduled for release on October 15, 1947 and sold for $29 complete with tender. MDC's address at this time was 738 Ceres Avenue, Los Angeles 21, California. Their 1948 catalog has their address as 5710 S. Paloma Ave., Los Angeles 11, California. That may partially explain your two different addresses. Yes, the early cab was 5-piece. It could be bought as a complete cab kit ( # 01-006) for $1.55, or as separate pieces if needed -- # 01-212 Front Plate, # 01-213 Back Plate, # 01- 214 Left Side, # 01-215 Right Side and # 01-216 Roof, at 30 cents per piece. That's 5 cents less when bought as separate parts rather than a complete kit -- they lost money on that deal (LOL). Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > I don't recall if I asked this before. Somewhere along the line in the mid 50's MDC announced an HOn3 version of the SP 0-6-0 switcher. Did this ever actually get produced? > > I have an untouched kit for the 0-6-0 made in 1948--able to date it fairly accurately as MDSC changed their address that year and the instructions have one address, while the box has another. Address data from MR ads. One difference then was that the cab was five separate castings.gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:54 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > Cabooses: > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > C-114 SP Caboose Red > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > DB-2 Burlington-CB& Q Fire Red decals > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > Late Production Series: > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > ----------O- --------- > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > Wetzel > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4430	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Actually the switcher was first offered in 1938, per ads in MR.  As I understand it Cliff Grandt die the die work. (confirmed in conversation with Cliff. )  Company name was "The Roundhouse" then.  It, or course, disappeared during WWII, so the 1947 issue would be the return to the market.    I wonder what they did for the war effort--Mantua, Lionel, Varney, and others mentioned some of the things they turned their skills to. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:59 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel I've never looked for one, so I can't say that I ever saw one. It is listed in their 1957 catalog as Model # 3L1 for the Switcher Kit, complete with tender, for $21.50. Also listed as # 3L2 for the loco kit only (less tender) for $$17.95, # 3L4 for the Swithcher Kit, complete (less Motor)_ for $17.95, # 3L3 for the Tender Kit only for $3.95 and # 3L50 for the Switcher (complete), assembled - RTR - and painted (unlettered) for $31.50. It would seem as though it was produced, although maybe for a short time only. I don't see it in the 1959 catalog. The 0-6-0 Switcher kit (their first), was scheduled for release on October 15, 1947 and sold for $29 complete with tender. MDC's address at this time was 738 Ceres Avenue, Los Angeles 21, California. Their 1948 catalog has their address as 5710 S. Paloma Ave., Los Angeles 11, California. That may partially explain your two different addresses. Yes, the early cab was 5-piece. It could be bought as a complete cab kit ( # 01-006) for $1.55, or as separate pieces if needed -- # 01-212 Front Plate, # 01-213 Back Plate, # 01- 214 Left Side, # 01-215 Right Side and # 01-216 Roof, at 30 cents per piece. That's 5 cents less when bought as separate parts rather than a complete kit -- they lost money on that deal (LOL). Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@.. .> wrote: > > I don't recall if I asked this before. Somewhere along the line in the mid 50's MDC announced an HOn3 version of the SP 0-6-0 switcher. Did this ever actually get produced? > > I have an untouched kit for the 0-6-0 made in 1948--able to date it fairly accurately as MDSC changed their address that year and the instructions have one address, while the box has another. Address data from MR ads. One difference then was that the cab was five separate castings.gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:54 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > Cabooses: > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > C-114 SP Caboose Red > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > DB-2 Burlington-CB& Q Fire Red decals > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > Late Production Series: > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > ----------O- --------- > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > Wetzel > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4431	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym

Birchwood Casey still makes them--check the local sporting goods shop. I have several varieties on hand.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Zamac components - acronym Years ago (mid-1970's) , I used a product called "Hobby Black"; it was made by Birchwood Casey Division of Fuller Laboratories exclusively for RAC Distributing Co. Walthers sold it, but it could be found in any hobby shop. It blackened nickle/silver, brass, steel, copper and zamac, as stated on the label, but not stainless steel or aluminum. It contained Methyl Alchohol and Selenium Dioxide. Try eBay for new old stock on the chance someone may still have some. It doesn't go bad -- I still have half of a 4 ounce jar and it works as well now as it did back then. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "donvdh" <donvdh@...> wrote: > > I'm still pursuing various ways to color my zamac parts. A while back someone asked about anodizing. Below is the acronym ZAMAC definition and 2 websites which describe anodizing at home. A Mr. Ron Newman, author of the lower website article, has not yet replied as to the ability or a recommendation as to whether or not Zamac can be properly anodizing. A component list of the alloy, I apologize for my earlier misunderstanding of alloy or suspended mixture, shows that all of the component materials are excellent electrical conductors, which is at least the first requirement. I hope this helps someone. I'm still pursuing more info about the possibilities. I did find that powder coating tends to mask some of the finer details cast into the pieces. Don Van Der Horn > > Zinc Aluminum Magnesium and Copper (alloy) > > http://www.warpig. com/paintball/ technical/ anodize.shtml > > http://www.focuser. com/atm/anodize/ anodize99. html >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4432	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Screens on the farm house

I have posted two photos of the Revel Farm House and the screens applied to it.  In Chuck H vintage stuff.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4433	From: erieberk	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Okay Glenn, thanks for the clarification. No doubt your catalog is an older one since its missing some of the kits, but it's too bad you can't locate your other one. For that matter, it might not be a bad idea to check out eBay from time to time for them. That "Ancient HO" clinic you did sounds great; must have really been interesting as there's so much stuff to cover. That would have been worth for someone to video tape. True enough on a decal repaint/renumber, but I was referring to those kits which came with MDC decals for specific roads. Anyone could letter those kits for any other railroad of their choice and if no one knew if MDC ever offered such a kit, they could easily get fooled. With a list of MDC's decaled kits, this can't happen. For instance, if someone didn't like using the SP Billboard decals in kit # DB-3, they could just as easily paint the car black and use SP Overnight decals and nobody would be the wiser. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > No--I said that there were several missing from the list in the catalog I have--I know there is another one somewhere. I did a clinic on "Ancient HO" for the 50th anniversary PCR convention. But somewhere I got the notion that there was an eighth boxcar type. It should be easy enough to tell a decal repaint or renumber, gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:02 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel > > > No, there certainly was no B-8xx series in MDC's production of metal > cars. There may have been such a series in plastic cars, but not > that I'm aware of. As for "several cars . . . missing from the > lists" please recheck my lists again, as all the reefers, high- side > gons, 4-truck (200-Ton) flats and hoppers are there, as well as > the "economy" kits -- Can't miss them if you look! Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > Wasn't there a B-8xx series? The catalog I found is not complete-- > I know that several cars are missing from the lists--including the > reefer, high-side gon, 4-truck flat, and the hoppers, as well as > the "economy" kits. Will look more tomorrow. gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: erieberk > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 9:47 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by > Ray Wetzel > > > > > > Continued from previous post: > > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Sides Road Numbers > > > > Stock Cars: > > > > S-100 SR Box Car Red 45912 > > S-101 UP Yellow - Red Lettering 47720, > > 47723, 47802, 47806, 47850, 47853, 47992, > > 47996 > > S-102 PRR Box Car Red 128114 > > S-103 D&RGW Black - White Lettering 37089, > > 37140, 37158, 37268, 37565, > > 39242 > > S-104 MKT Yellow - Black Lettering 47100, > > 47158, 47300, 47301, > > 47411 > > S-105 NYC Box Car Red 22150, > > 23365, 23383, 27813, 28074, 28145, > > 50656 > > S-106 ATSF Box Car Red 54979, > > 55333, 60392, > > 60638 > > S-107 CM&StP Box Car Red 104001 > > S-108 T&P Box Car Red 22225 > > S-109 MP Box Car Red 53002 > > S-110 ACL Box Car Red 140203, > > 140214, 140225, 140236, 140278, 140317 > > > > Low Side Gondolas: > > > > G-100 SR Tuscan Red 55400, 56492 > > G-101 ERIE Black 18891, 18892 > > G-102 N&W Black 91511 > > G-103 EJ&E Medium Green 30448, 31507 > > > > High Side Gondolas: > > > > G-200 ATSF Tuscan Red 74146 > > G-201 UP Tuscan Red - Orange Lettering Small > > Letters & Numbers - 65371 Large Letters & Numbers - 66177 > > G-202 IC Tuscan Red 85204, 99188 > > G-203 CG > > G-204 CNW Black 69763 > > G-205 MC Black 15317 > > G-300 C&O (Round End) Black 36000, 36215 > > > > Ore Hopper Cars -- Taper Sides: > > > > H-100 GN Tuscan Red 88373 > > H-101 SOO Line Tuscan Red 81711 > > H-102 CNW Tuscan Red 121333 > > H-103 LS&I Tuscan Red 7135 > > > > Ore Hopper Cars -- Rectangular Sides: > > > > H-150 GN Tuscan Red 91636 > > H-151 DM&IR Tuscan Red 26593 > > H-152 CN Tuscan Red 114714 > > H-152 MILW Tuscan Red 76273 > > > > Sand & Gravel Hoppers: > > > > H-300 "Roundhouse" Yellow - Black Lettering (w/Decals) > > H-301 StL&SW Tuscan Red 70790 > > Black (w/Decals) 70790 > > H-302 CP Tuscan Red 375300 > > Black (w/Decals) 375300 > > > > Triple Hoppers: > > > > H-401 D&RGW Black 18950 > > H-402 UP Tuscan Red 6600 > > H-403 C&EI Tuscan Red > > H-404 WM Tuscan Red > > H-501 C&O (Round End) Black 101049 > > > > 200-Ton Flat Cars: > > > > F-100 PRR Tuscan Red 470200, > > 470201, 470202 > > F-101 CNW Tuscan Red 48051, 48053 > > F-102 D&H Black 499040, > > 499041 > > F-103 NYC Black 499042, > > 499043 > > F-104 Westinghouse Black WECX 100 > > > > ----------O---------- > > > > Last Page of list coming up next . . . Ray > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4434	From: erieberk	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

That would account for the 5 cent difference -- I just never thought of that. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > the complete cab kit probably included the screws to put it together. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:59 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel > > > I've never looked for one, so I can't say that I ever saw one. It is > listed in their 1957 catalog as Model # 3L1 for the Switcher Kit, > complete with tender, for $21.50. Also listed as # 3L2 for the loco > kit only (less tender) for $$17.95, # 3L4 for the Swithcher Kit, > complete (less Motor)_ for $17.95, # 3L3 for the Tender Kit only for > $3.95 and # 3L50 for the Switcher (complete), assembled - RTR - and > painted (unlettered) for $31.50. It would seem as though it was > produced, although maybe for a short time only. I don't see it in > the 1959 catalog. > > The 0-6-0 Switcher kit (their first), was scheduled for release on > October 15, 1947 and sold for $29 complete with tender. MDC's > address at this time was 738 Ceres Avenue, Los Angeles 21, > California. Their 1948 catalog has their address as 5710 S. Paloma > Ave., Los Angeles 11, California. That may partially explain your > two different addresses. Yes, the early cab was 5-piece. It could > be bought as a complete cab kit ( # 01-006) for $1.55, or as separate > pieces if needed -- # 01-212 Front Plate, # 01-213 Back Plate, # 01- > 214 Left Side, # 01-215 Right Side and # 01-216 Roof, at 30 cents per > piece. That's 5 cents less when bought as separate parts rather than > a complete kit -- they lost money on that deal (LOL). Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > I don't recall if I asked this before. Somewhere along the line in > the mid 50's MDC announced an HOn3 version of the SP 0-6-0 switcher. > Did this ever actually get produced? > > > > I have an untouched kit for the 0-6-0 made in 1948--able to date it > fairly accurately as MDSC changed their address that year and the > instructions have one address, while the box has another. Address > data from MR ads. One difference then was that the cab was five > separate castings.gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: erieberk > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:54 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by > Ray Wetzel > > > > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > > > Cabooses: > > > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > > C-114 SP Caboose Red > > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > > DB-2 Burlington-CB&Q Fire Red decals > > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > > > Late Production Series: > > > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > > > ----------O---------- > > > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you > need > > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > > Wetzel > > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4435	From: erieberk	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Those older MR's are almost a must for someone wanting to research any particular manufacturer, besides having their catalogs; the ads tell a lot. I have seen the Switcher being offered in 1938, by "The Roundhouse" (I have a complete set of MR going back to the beginning - - Jan. 1934), which is quite interesting. I don't recall if the ads mentioned it, but I'd sort of assume they were 6 volt. I probably should have made it clearer, as I meant the release of the post-War Switcher in October of '47 was the first engine offered for the newly renamed company, Model Die Casting Co. (later, Model Die Casting, Inc.), who's first ad appeared in MR in September 1947 advertising their marker lamps, switch stands and passenger trucks, and announcing the coming of their first engine (under the new company name). Yes, I too would be curious to know what they accually produced for the War-effort. Its been well documented what those other companies did during the War, but all too little has ever been written about some of these other model manufacturers. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Actually the switcher was first offered in 1938, per ads in MR. As I understand it Cliff Grandt die the die work. (confirmed in conversation with Cliff. ) Company name was "The Roundhouse" then. It, or course, disappeared during WWII, so the 1947 issue would be the return to the market. > > I wonder what they did for the war effort--Mantua, Lionel, Varney, and others mentioned some of the things they turned their skills to. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:59 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel > > > I've never looked for one, so I can't say that I ever saw one. It is > listed in their 1957 catalog as Model # 3L1 for the Switcher Kit, > complete with tender, for $21.50. Also listed as # 3L2 for the loco > kit only (less tender) for $$17.95, # 3L4 for the Swithcher Kit, > complete (less Motor)_ for $17.95, # 3L3 for the Tender Kit only for > $3.95 and # 3L50 for the Switcher (complete), assembled - RTR - and > painted (unlettered) for $31.50. It would seem as though it was > produced, although maybe for a short time only. I don't see it in > the 1959 catalog. > > The 0-6-0 Switcher kit (their first), was scheduled for release on > October 15, 1947 and sold for $29 complete with tender. MDC's > address at this time was 738 Ceres Avenue, Los Angeles 21, > California. Their 1948 catalog has their address as 5710 S. Paloma > Ave., Los Angeles 11, California. That may partially explain your > two different addresses. Yes, the early cab was 5-piece. It could > be bought as a complete cab kit ( # 01-006) for $1.55, or as separate > pieces if needed -- # 01-212 Front Plate, # 01-213 Back Plate, # 01- > 214 Left Side, # 01-215 Right Side and # 01-216 Roof, at 30 cents per > piece. That's 5 cents less when bought as separate parts rather than > a complete kit -- they lost money on that deal (LOL). Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > I don't recall if I asked this before. Somewhere along the line in > the mid 50's MDC announced an HOn3 version of the SP 0-6-0 switcher. > Did this ever actually get produced? > > > > I have an untouched kit for the 0-6-0 made in 1948--able to date it > fairly accurately as MDSC changed their address that year and the > instructions have one address, while the box has another. Address > data from MR ads. One difference then was that the cab was five > separate castings.gj > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: erieberk > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:54 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by > Ray Wetzel > > > > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > > > Cabooses: > > > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > > C-114 SP Caboose Red > > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > > DB-2 Burlington-CB&Q Fire Red decals > > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > > > Late Production Series: > > > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > > > ----------O---------- > > > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you > need > > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > > Wetzel > > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4436	From: erieberk	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium -

Chuck, It looks great, now it can be used as a good reference source for anyone into MDC metal. One last thing though, if you would please, there still is no Style description as a heading for the Stock Cars. Thanks again for all your efforts, Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Ray, you are welcome. I have added the corrections to the file in the group > site and cleaned it up some so that all car numbers appear now. If you see > anything else that needs attention. Let me know. > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of erieberk > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:35 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - > by Ray Wetzel > > > > Chuck, Thanks for making the Excel file. That's a lot of work and > is appreciated. I split this up into four emails, since I felt it > would have been too long for many members to read as one posting. In > addition to what I have in the MDC Roundhouse Group files, I also > filled out an Excel spreadsheet there with complete info (all > numbers, etc.), but it was never posted as the member helping me on > filing PDF files, etc., never followed through -- and I just am not > that computor savy to know how to post a spreadsheet. > > I do hope that corrections can be made to your spreadsheet, but > otherwise it looks great. It does need the following corrections to > be accurate though (yeah, I know, it was a big job): (1) You need to > add Horizontal Rib Box Cars as the style above that grouping of cars > (it was ommitted). (2) You did not include the road number (car > number) - 16153 - for the F-102 D&H 200-Ton Flat Car. Instead, you > have the first two car numbers of F-103 NYC in the D&H slot. NYC has > four numbers. (3) I only see six car numbers for S-101 UP stock > car; the spread sheet on my computor only goes over as far as "I". I > assume the two missing car numbers are beyond that to the right of > the screen but I can't see them -- maybe its just my computor that > shows it like that(?). S-101 UP should have eight car numbers. (4) > Not really necessary to do, but as I read it, the redundant Catalog > #'s you included on the description line, at the top of each kit > group at the top of each kit group seems confusing to me, so you > might want to eliminate them. If thet can't be eliminated entirely, > I'd replace them with XXXX (or B-000) so no one thinks these are > Catalog #'s. (6) Again, in the Stock Car listing, I don't see Road > Number 50656 -- please check my list. (7) Last item, you can > eliminate the garbage/blurb ("cm7stp.olympian medium . . . ") at the > very end of the spreadsheet, which was not part of my list. Many > thanks again, Ray > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, > "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@> > wrote: > > > > Ray, I added the four emails into one Excel file and posted it at > this site. > > Thanks for posting. > > > > > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > > http://community. <http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104> > webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com] > On Behalf > > Of erieberk > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 1:54 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com > > Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car > Compendium - by Ray > > Wetzel > > > > > > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > > > Cabooses: > > > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > > C-114 SP Caboose Red > > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > > DB-2 Burlington-CB&Q Fire Red decals > > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > > > Late Production Series: > > > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > > > ----------O---------- > > > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need > > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > > Wetzel > > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4437	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Another source is the Model Craftsman, which debuted in 1933 and is now known as Railroad Model craftsman. And yes, pre WW 2 production was 6 volt DC. The changeover to 12 volt DC, came after WW 2. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4438	From: erieberk	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

Yes, and they're equally as interesting and well done, often with plans included for the article subject. I have most, but not all of them, going back to 1933, but didn't mention them as Model Railroader was being discussed. Besides, while many manufacturers advertised in both magazines, not all did, preferring one over the other. While its well known that pre-War Mantua and Varney were six volt, a 6- pole, 12-volt armature was offered to convert the Varney L-2 ("midget") electric motor to 12 volts. Varney also offered their 12 volt SPM motor in addition to their 6 volt (6-8 volt) VPM all-purpose motor for other installations, so it would seem that not all modelers of that period used 6 volts -- 12 volts were used prior to WW II. Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, DLeistikow@... wrote: > > Another source is the Model Craftsman, which debuted in 1933 and is now > known as Railroad Model craftsman. And yes, pre WW 2 production was 6 > volt DC. The changeover to 12 volt DC, came after WW 2. > > Don L. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4439	From: Eric	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Vintage HO Motors

Hello All, I have 6 open frame motors for HO These motors are new in the boxs and the boxs are stamped Made in Occupied Japan. I am willing to let them go for 50.00 per motor or make me an offer for the lot. Please contact me off line. cec625@... Thank You Eric

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4440	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /MDC Metal kits HO.xls Uploaded by : chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...> Description : List of MDC Roundhouse metal HO kits You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/MDC%20Metal%20kits%20HO.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4441	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Co

Ok, fixed that .   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO @yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO @yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erieberk Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:40 AM To: vintageHO @yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [SPAM] [SPAM] [ vintageHO ] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel   Chuck, It looks great, now it can be used as a good reference source for anyone into MDC metal. One last thing though, if you would please, there still is no Style description as a heading for the Stock Cars. Thanks again for all your efforts, Ray --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@. ..> wrote: > > Ray, you are welcome. I have added the corrections to the file in the group > site and cleaned it up some so that all car numbers appear now. If you see > anything else that needs attention. Let me know. > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf > Of erieberk > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:35 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: [SPAM] [SPAM] [ vintageHO ] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - > by Ray Wetzel > > > > Chuck, Thanks for making the Excel file. That's a lot of work and > is appreciated. I split this up into four emails, since I felt it > would have been too long for many members to read as one posting. In > addition to what I have in the MDC Roundhouse Group files, I also > filled out an Excel spreadsheet there with complete info (all > numbers, etc.), but it was never posted as the member helping me on > filing PDF files, etc., never followed through -- and I just am not > that computor savy to know how to post a spreadsheet. > > I do hope that corrections can be made to your spreadsheet, but > otherwise it looks great. It does need the following corrections to > be accurate though (yeah, I know, it was a big job): (1) You need to > add Horizontal Rib Box Cars as the style above that grouping of cars > (it was ommitted). (2) You did not include the road number (car > number) - 16153 - for the F-102 D&H 200-Ton Flat Car. Instead, you > have the first two car numbers of F-103 NYC in the D&H slot. NYC has > four numbers. (3) I only see six car numbers for S-101 UP stock > car; the spread sheet on my computor only goes over as far as "I". I > assume the two missing car numbers are beyond that to the right of > the screen but I can't see them -- maybe its just my computor that > shows it like that(?). S-101 UP should have eight car numbers. (4) > Not really necessary to do, but as I read it, the redundant Catalog > #'s you included on the description line, at the top of each kit > group at the top of each kit group seems confusing to me, so you > might want to eliminate them. If thet can't be eliminated entirely, > I'd replace them with XXXX (or B-000) so no one thinks these are > Catalog #'s. (6) Again, in the Stock Car listing, I don't see Road > Number 50656 -- please check my list. (7) Last item, you can > eliminate the garbage/blurb ("cm7stp.olympian medium . . . ") at the > very end of the spreadsheet, which was not part of my list. Many > thanks again, Ray > > --- In vintageHO @yahoogrou <mailto: vintageHO % 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com, > "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@> > wrote: > > > > Ray, I added the four emails into one Excel file and posted it at > this site. > > Thanks for posting. > > > > > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > > http://community. < href="http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104">http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104> > webshots.com/ user/lordon104 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: vintageHO @yahoogrou <mailto: vintageHO % 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com > [mailto: vintageHO @ yahoogrou <mailto: vintageHO % 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com] > On Behalf > > Of erieberk > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 1:54 PM > > To: vintageHO @yahoogrou <mailto: vintageHO % 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com > > Subject: [SPAM] [ vintageHO ] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car > Compendium - by Ray > > Wetzel > > > > > > > > Kit # Roadname Color of Side Road Numbers > > > > Refrigerator Cars -- Ice Bunker: > > > > R-101 GN (WFEX) > > R-102 SP - UP (PFE) Orange - Black Lettering 47784 > > R-103 CM&StL (UTLX) Yellow - Black Lettering 37007 > > R-104 IC Yellow - Black Lettering 31000 > > R-105 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering > > R-106 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > > > Cabooses: > > > > C-100 MKT (4 window) Yellow - Black Lettering 817 > > C-101 ATSF (5-3 window) Caboose Red 1951 > > C-102 PRR (2 window) Caboose Red 477614 > > C-103 RI (5-3 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 17851 > > C-104 C&O (2 window) Caboose Red 90066 > > C-105 MP (2 window) Caboose Red > > C-106 NYNH&H (2 window) Caboose Red C-640 > > C-107 C&EI (2 window) Caboose Red 6 > > C-108 VGN (2 window) Caboose Red > > C-109 N&W (2 window) Caboose Red 518393 > > C-110 PM (2 window) Caboose Red A-901 > > C-111 RDG (4 window) Caboose Red 92803 > > C-112 LV (4 window) Caboose Red 95050 > > C-113 UP (3 window) Yellow - Red Lettering 3900 > > C-114 SP Caboose Red > > C-115 NYNH&H (2 window) Socony Red C-950 > > C-116 SP (5 window) Aluminum - Black Lettering 1181 > > > > C-200 Undec./Unpainted (4 - window) Truss Side None > > C-201 Undec./Unpainted (5 & 3 window) Metal Sheath None > > C-202 Undec./Unpainted (2 window) Metal Sheath None > > > > Economy Series Box Cars - Metal Sheath: > > > > DB-1 NYC Early Bird Tuscan Red decals > > DB-2 Burlington-CB& Q Fire Red decals > > DB-3 SP Billboard Tuscan Red decals > > DB-4 PRR Large Herald Tuscan Red - Large Letters 87742 > > > > Economy Series Box Cars - Wood Sheath: > > > > W-1 MWR Ball Glass Jar Yellow - Black Lettering decals 1027 > > W-2 LINE Quaker Oats Yellow - Black Lettering decals 647 > > > > Economy Series Flat Cars: > > > > F-1 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated > > F-2 Flat Car, Shorty - Undecorated, w/Metal-Wheel Trucks > > > > Late Production Series: > > > > Metal Sheath Box Cars: > > > > B-1 ATSF Fire Red > > B-2 NYC Jade Green 176893 > > > > Refrigerator Cars - Plug Door: > > > > R-1 ATSF Orange - Black Lettering 3280, > > (w/Decals) 3281, 3285, 3490 > > R-2 SRLX Swift Caboose Red - Black Lettering 15987 > > R-15 FGEX Yellow - Black Lettering 39500 > > R-16 NP Orange - Black Lettering 91611 > > > > ----------O- --------- > > > > I have some of the few missing numbers in my collection if you need > > them. I just haven't added them to my list. Happy collecting, Ray > > Wetzel > > b-203 cm7stp olympian medium green w/ maroon stripe 45555 > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4442	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

I found the other catalogs today.  Now to compare what is missing in the "official" one (with the MDC binder) ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 6:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4443	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel

I have MR from Dec. 1938 to date, missing only 15 issues for a complete set. With Jan. and Nov 1938 I'd be closer.  I just went out and looked thru the 1938 MR's and could not find the switcher ad--found an announcement of the shop opening-- ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4444	From: Mike Christian	Date: 10/25/2007
Subject: Old MR, RMC & NMRA Bulletin mags with binders for sale

1960 to present MR & RMC in respective Blue (MR) and Red (RMC)binders $10.00 per year (including binder) NMRA Bulletin 1965 thru 1995 in Red NMRA rod binders $7.50 per year (includes binder) Add US MEDIA MAIL from zip 70058 (New Orleans area) Please contact me off list. Thanx, Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4445	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/25/2007
Subject: Athearn RDC

I have located a made-to-order power truck for my Athearn metal RDC that is missing one--Hollywood Foundry in Australia. makes a whole line of trucks--can motors--I have one coming. Will let you all know how it is when I get it and install it.  They are a bit pricey--but look good.  I think that LaBelle Woodworking has a link--they get trucks from there.  Truck is called the "Bull Ant"    gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4446	From: curmudgeon	Date: 10/25/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC

You could have ordered it in the US from Possum Valley Models. > I have located a made-to-order power truck for my Athearn metal RDC that is missing one--Hollywood Foundry in Australia. makes a whole line of trucks--can motors--I have one coming. Will let you all know how it is when I get it and install it. They are a bit pricey--but look good. I think that LaBelle Woodworking has a link--they get trucks from there. Truck is called the "Bull Ant" > > gj >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4447	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC

I told Geoff that this would happen.  Same truck? or similar? or the actual Athearn truck?   Where were you the last few weeks when I was looking for such a truck?  8^)   the 12" scale live steam ends Saturday.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: curmudgeon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:43 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn RDC You could have ordered it in the US from Possum Valley Models. > I have located a made-to-order power truck for my Athearn metal RDC that is missing one--Hollywood Foundry in Australia. makes a whole line of trucks--can motors--I have one coming. Will let you all know how it is when I get it and install it. They are a bit pricey--but look good. I think that LaBelle Woodworking has a link--they get trucks from there. Truck is called the "Bull Ant" > > gj >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4448	From: curmudgeon	Date: 10/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC

Last few weeks. Let's see. Major windstorm, cleaning debris off the line so revenue service could continue......re-working several steamers....fighting one of the nmra's senior reps......nothing much. > I told Geoff that this would happen. Same truck? or similar? or the actual Athearn truck? > > Where were you the last few weeks when I was looking for such a truck? 8^) > > the 12" scale live steam ends Saturday. > > gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: curmudgeon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:43 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn RDC > > > You could have ordered it in the US from Possum Valley Models. > > > I have located a made-to-order power truck for my Athearn metal RDC > that is missing one--Hollywood Foundry in Australia. makes a whole > line of trucks--can motors--I have one coming. Will let you all know > how it is when I get it and install it. They are a bit pricey-- but > look good. I think that LaBelle Woodworking has a link--they get > trucks from there. Truck is called the "Bull Ant" > > > > gj > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4449	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/27/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC

A difference of opinion with a NMRA rep? Naw, that would never happen. John Hagen http://www.prowlcars.com/ http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldhdtrucks/?yguid=192480883 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Last few weeks. > Let's see. > Major windstorm, cleaning debris off the line so revenue service > could continue......re-working several steamers....fighting one of > the nmra's senior reps......nothing much. > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4450	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/28/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC - NMRP REP???

What's a NMRA rep???? Garry On 10/27/07, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: A difference of opinion with a NMRA rep? Naw, that would never happen. John Hagen http://www.prowlcars.com/ http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldhdtrucks/?yguid=192480883 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Last few weeks. > Let's see. > Major windstorm, cleaning debris off the line so revenue service > could continue......re-working several steamers....fighting one of > the nmra's senior reps......nothing much. > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4451	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/28/2007
Subject: Roundhouse switcher

I found the full-page ad announcing the SP 0-6-0 switcher from "The Roundhouse" in the Los Angeles area in the February 1939 Model Railroader.  I don't do scanning, but could copy it and mail to someone to post.  I could also include the instructions from the 1948 kit.   Glenn Joesten

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4452	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: Jerry White passes

Copy of a message posted to the Oscalemodeler group by Rod Miller "It is with great sorrow that I write this message. Jerry White passed away last Friday the 26th in Napa, California. His passing was peaceful. Upon his request, no services were held. He was preceded by his wife Lois who passed away in the spring of 2005. In addition to his being a master modeler, Jerry was a tireless promotor of model railroading in general in 2-rail O scale in particular. He joined and participated in the NMRA when it was formed, at least in part because of his experience with multiple layouts all built to different standards. I will be preparing an obituary for distribution to these e-mail lists and hobby publications. If you have information about Jerry's model railroading activity that may be relevant to his obituary, please let me know. I have lost a friend and life model. No doubt he is now happily hard at work on that great layout up in the sky. Rod Miller" Rod is preparing an obituary for the O Scale group and the model railroad hobby in general. I will post it here if anyone desires.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4453	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: Re: Jerry White passes

Sorry to hear about Jerry White. He was a long-time friend. Jerry taught me a lot about locomotive construction and performance. He was willing to sit and talk with a teenager at the West Bay Club's open nights, and steered me into O Scale. I have locos that I consider to have "Jerry White Drives" as Jerry described to me what to do to make them perform as they should. Glenn Joesten Yreka, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Jerry White passes > Copy of a message posted to the Oscalemodeler group by Rod Miller > > "It is with great sorrow that I write this message. > > Jerry White passed away last Friday the 26th in Napa, California. His > passing was peaceful. Upon his request, no services were held. > > He was preceded by his wife Lois who passed away in the spring of > 2005. > > In addition to his being a master modeler, Jerry was a tireless > promotor of model railroading in general in 2-rail O scale in > particular. He joined and participated in the NMRA when it was formed, > at least in part because of his experience with multiple layouts all > built to different standards. > > I will be preparing an obituary for distribution to these e-mail lists > and hobby publications. If you have information about Jerry's model > railroading activity that may be relevant to his obituary, please let > me know. > > I have lost a friend and life model. > > No doubt he is now happily hard at work on that great layout up in the > sky. > > Rod Miller" > > Rod is preparing an obituary for the O Scale group and the model > railroad hobby in general. I will post it here if anyone desires. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4454	From: Tom	Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: New here; old geezer; into modeling transition era in New England

HI FOLKS: Sincerely hope I fit in here; will explain layout plans. Grew up in '40s; saw diesels replace steam in Springfield, MA; birthplace/home town, until separated from Air Force in '60. In and out of HO 50+ years. Have ton of stuff stored but had to surrender upstairs spare bedroom to youngest son[of 8 offspring]when he returned safe from Iraq last year[THANK YOU LORD!]. Now have chance to finally start freelance northern New England, point-to-point, narrow shelf, a-t-r, branchline switching layout, roughly set in 1959-1960. T'will have reverse loop at upper A terminal; runaround track/TT at lower B terminal. Have 7 locos: B&M F7, D&H Sharknose, RUT RS1, MEC GP7, CV S4, B&M 2-6-0 and 0-6-0T; need to get more early rolling stock and structures. Some proposed trackside industries, to-date: REA warehouse/small meat packer/feed-grain mill/scrap metal yard/ fire truck rebuilder/textile mill/coal-oil dealer/team tracks/ milk platforms. Want several rivers, bridges[2 covered]; plenty of New England scenery. Instead of doing Autumn, plan to do late Summer with very slight hint of color change. Didn't mention choice of train control, couplers, track/turnouts, as they don't fit the era of this Group[although I model transition era, feel I should use products which have worked well for me]. Am open to lots of advice, ideas, suggestions of my proposed ideas and hope to share & learn from your experience. TTFN..... Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4455	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: E&B Valley observation instruction sheet

Hello all! Am hoping there's someone 'out there' with a copy of this sheet...in a box of eBay wins I have an E&B Valley RR Co. GN Empire Builder full-length observation car without instructions...there appear to be several odd bits and pieces which don't belong to the kit, but I have been known to be wrong....(!) If you can help with a .jpg, .pdf or hard copy of the relevant instruction sheet, pls contact me off the list. Thanks! Russ National Bingo Night. Play along for the chance to win $10,000 every week. Download your gamecard now at Yahoo!7 TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4456	From: Mary Long	Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: Re: E&B Valley observation instruction sheet

Hello Russ ! I built a lot of those , I can't supply the inst sheet but they probably had pieces left over with the 1 less bunkhead door vs. the other kits . Roof vents [garlands maybe] . Hank H Russ Shiel <rshiel01@...> wrote: Hello all! Am hoping there's someone 'out there' with a copy of this sheet...in a box of eBay wins I have an E&B Valley RR Co. GN Empire Builder full-length observation car without instructions. ..there appear to be several odd bits and pieces which don't belong to the kit, but I have been known to be wrong....(!) If you can help with a .jpg, .pdf or hard copy of the relevant instruction sheet, pls contact me off the list. Thanks! Russ National Bingo Night. Play along for the chance to win $10,000 every week. Download your gamecard now at Yahoo!7 TV.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4457	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Jerry White passes

Like Glenn Joesten, I too knew Gerry as a fellow member of the West Bay club in Menlo Park (CA) in the 50s and 60s. Although he was an O gauger, he also had his hand in HO- I particularly recall a gorgeous custom-built HO PRR S-1 6-4-4-6 that he built for a customer now long forgotten. I traded a whole bunch of HO stuff with him, the purpose of which I never could figure out. I have several HO locomotives with his drives, including an ingenious drive for a string of Athearn metal RDC cars. Gerry also had something to do with the founding or subsequent life of KurtzCraft, the producer of the very first detailed "flat" styrene boxcar kits (PS-1) in c. 1960, but I lack details. I just resurrected one of these cars for current layout use, and the state of detailing and sharp relief of this car still makes it quite acceptable in the company of its current high grade styrene and resin descendents. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4458	From: Tom	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Seek info on item/searching for others

HI AGAIN: 1. Have wood/metal track cleaning car kit[bought many years ago; can't remember brand & no original box]. About 40'. Half caboose & other half holds heavy cylindrical metal tank for track cleaning solution, with screw-on cap. Might be Ambroid/Northeastern but not sure. Is anyone familiar with this car? 2. Seeking info on 50s-60s Swifts meat packing plant. Possibly kit; maybe Revell or other brand. Remember seeing in 50s-60s magazine [have tons of RMC/MR back-issues]. Maybe someone here remembers? 3. Anyone have a book by Frank Ellison? Maybe sell/swap? [fondly remember his 'smileposts' & painted layout structures]. 4. Could use a few: 36- 40' two bay hoppers, 40' box of various type, small oil tank cars, drop-end gons. Brand OK as long as car fits 50s-60s era. Trucks intact would be nice; don't care about couplers. 5. Would like to find old gas electric. Prefer beat-up one in need of TLC/re-motor, as intend to kitbash into freelance, shorty version for occasional passenger/mail runs. Old brain cells can't remember anything else for now[need to unpack years of stuff in storage!]. TTFN.....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4459	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others

Hi, regarding item 1. That is an Ulrich track cleaning car.  Pretty much leaked out the track cleaning fluid as it sat on the tracks.  Depending on how tight or loose the cap was on the tank determined the fluid rate.  Some folks actually got these working pretty good.  Personally, I would remove the felt and holder and turn it into a very nice MOW piece.  Regarding item 2.  The Swift packing plant by Suydam/Alpine Division Scale Models, There are plenty of these available on eBay and you may also find these at train shows and some hobby shops.  Going rate is about 10 to 15 bucks. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: papa.smurf5@... Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:58:38 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Seek info on item/searching for others HI AGAIN: 1. Have wood/metal track cleaning car kit[bought many years ago; can't remember brand & no original box]. About 40'. Half caboose & other half holds heavy cylindrical metal tank for track cleaning solution, with screw-on cap. Might be Ambroid/Northeaster n but not sure. Is anyone familiar with this car? 2. Seeking info on 50s-60s Swifts meat packing plant. Possibly kit; maybe Revell or other brand. Remember seeing in 50s-60s magazine [have tons of RMC/MR back-issues] . Maybe someone here remembers? 3. Anyone have a book by Frank Ellison? Maybe sell/swap? [fondly remember his 'smileposts' & painted layout structures]. 4. Could use a few: 36- 40' two bay hoppers, 40' box of various type, small oil tank cars, drop-end gons. Brand OK as long as car fits 50s-60s era. Trucks intact would be nice; don't care about couplers. 5. Would like to find old gas electric. Prefer beat-up one in need of TLC/re-motor, as intend to kitbash into freelance, shorty version for occasional passenger/mail runs. Old brain cells can't remember anything else for now[need to unpack years of stuff in storage!]. TTFN.....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last. Get it now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4460	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: E&B Valley observation instruction sheet

Hi Russ,  I don't know if it is the same, but I think it might use the same instructions as Eastern Car Works, N&W Observation.  I have one of those and if you wish, I can probably scan it and email it to you later this week.  Just verify your email address as: rshiel01@yahoo. com.au Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: long95209@... Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:46:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] E&B Valley observation instruction sheet Hello Russ ! I built a lot of those , I can't supply the inst sheet but they probably had pieces left over with the 1 less bunkhead door vs. the other kits . Roof vents [garlands maybe] . Hank H Russ Shiel <rshiel01@yahoo. com.au> wrote: Hello all! Am hoping there's someone 'out there' with a copy of this sheet...in a box of eBay wins I have an E&B Valley RR Co. GN Empire Builder full-length observation car without instructions. ..there appear to be several odd bits and pieces which don't belong to the kit, but I have been known to be wrong....(!) If you can help with a .jpg, .pdf or hard copy of the relevant instruction sheet, pls contact me off the list. Thanks! Russ National Bingo Night. Play along for the chance to win $10,000 every week. Download your gamecard now at Yahoo!7 TV. Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! Try now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4461	From: Tom	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others

THANKS MUCH FOR SPEEDY REPLY VIC! Will see if my inquiry 3 thru 5 has results also. Pondering your suggestion on making car a piece of MOW equipment and using other means to clean track. TTFN...Old Tom in NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4462	From: drpshops	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Bowser Kits

Hello I was wondering if the Bowser kits feel into the vintage H0 kit realm? There are old diecast kits, the new PRR E-6 has the same construction as the K-11 I got in the mid 60s The only thing is it has a newer type motor than the older locomotive Ihve on of the track cleaning cars with the felt pad. Never did work that good. Keith Gutshall

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4463	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others

HI AGAIN: 1. Have wood/metal track cleaning car kit[bought many years ago; can't remember brand & no original box]. About 40'. Half caboose & other half holds heavy cylindrical metal tank for track cleaning solution, with screw-on cap. Might be Ambroid/Northeastern but not sure. Is anyone familiar with this car? Seems like Ulrich once made something like that. Roger Aultman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4464	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others

Hi Tom and Victor, I have one of those Ulrich track cleaning cars and I agree with Victor. They leaked badly. I took mine and modified it by replacing the felt pad with a piece of abrasive rubber track cleaning block. I then filled the tank with lead shot to give it enough weight to keep the pad against the rails without derailing the car. Bill DeFoe -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi, regarding item 1. That is an Ulrich track cleaning car. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: papa.smurf5@... > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:58:38 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Seek info on item/searching for others > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HI AGAIN: > > 1. Have wood/metal track cleaning car kit[bought many years ago; > > can't remember brand & no original box]. About 40'. Half caboose > > & other half holds heavy cylindrical metal tank for track cleaning > > solution, with screw-on cap. Might be Ambroid/Northeastern but not > > sure. Is anyone familiar with this car? > > 2. Seeking info on 50s-60s Swifts meat packing plant. Possibly kit; > > maybe Revell or other brand. Remember seeing in 50s-60s magazine > > [have tons of RMC/MR back-issues]. Maybe someone here remembers? > > 3. Anyone have a book by Frank Ellison? Maybe sell/swap? [fondly > > remember his 'smileposts' & painted layout structures]. > > 4. Could use a few: 36- 40' two bay hoppers, 40' box of various > > type, small oil tank cars, drop-end gons. Brand OK as long as car > > fits 50s-60s era. Trucks intact would be nice; don't care about > > couplers. > > 5. Would like to find old gas electric. Prefer beat-up one in need > > of TLC/re-motor, as intend to kitbash into freelance, shorty version > > for occasional passenger/mail runs. > > Old brain cells can't remember anything else for now[need to unpack > > years of stuff in storage!]. TTFN.....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last.  Get it now. > http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx? pid=CL100626971033 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4465	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others

I had a Silver Streak track cleaner as you described-except the “caboose” part was more like a shed.  Appeared to be a crane boom car, except hole was drilled in floor over a felt pad that was saturated by the tank, thus cleaning the track.  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:59 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Seek info on item/searching for others   HI AGAIN: 1. Have wood/metal track cleaning car kit[bought many years ago; can't remember brand & no original box]. About 40'. Half caboose & other half holds heavy cylindrical metal tank for track cleaning solution, with screw-on cap. Might be Ambroid/Northeastern but not sure. Is anyone familiar with this car? 2. Seeking info on 50s-60s Swifts meat packing plant. Possibly kit; maybe Revell or other brand. Remember seeing in 50s-60s magazine [have tons of RMC/MR back-issues]. Maybe someone here remembers? 3. Anyone have a book by Frank Ellison? Maybe sell/swap? [fondly remember his 'smileposts' & painted layout structures]. 4. Could use a few: 36- 40' two bay hoppers, 40' box of various type, small oil tank cars, drop-end gons. Brand OK as long as car fits 50s-60s era. Trucks intact would be nice; don't care about couplers. 5. Would like to find old gas electric. Prefer beat-up one in need of TLC/re-motor, as intend to kitbash into freelance, shorty version for occasional passenger/mail runs. Old brain cells can't remember anything else for now[need to unpack years of stuff in storage!]. TTFN.....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4466	From: curmudgeon	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others

Going by now-foggy memory, wasn't the Ulrich? > > I had a Silver Streak track cleaner as you described-except the "caboose" > part was more like a shed. Appeared to be a crane boom car, except hole was > drilled in floor over a felt pad that was saturated by the tank, thus > cleaning the track. JerryG > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Tom > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:59 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Seek info on item/searching for others > > HI AGAIN: > 1. Have wood/metal track cleaning car kit[bought many years ago; > can't remember brand & no original box]. About 40'. Half caboose > & other half holds heavy cylindrical metal tank for track cleaning > solution, with screw-on cap. Might be Ambroid/Northeastern but not > sure. Is anyone familiar with this car? > 2. Seeking info on 50s-60s Swifts meat packing plant. Possibly kit; > maybe Revell or other brand. Remember seeing in 50s-60s magazine > [have tons of RMC/MR back-issues]. Maybe someone here remembers? > 3. Anyone have a book by Frank Ellison? Maybe sell/swap? [fondly > remember his 'smileposts' & painted layout structures]. > 4. Could use a few: 36- 40' two bay hoppers, 40' box of various > type, small oil tank cars, drop-end gons. Brand OK as long as car > fits 50s-60s era. Trucks intact would be nice; don't care about > couplers. > 5. Would like to find old gas electric. Prefer beat-up one in need > of TLC/re-motor, as intend to kitbash into freelance, shorty version > for occasional passenger/mail runs. > Old brain cells can't remember anything else for now[need to unpack > years of stuff in storage!]. TTFN.....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4467	From: Bill C.	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "drpshops" <drpshops@...> wrote: > > Hello > I was wondering if the Bowser kits feel into the vintage H0 kit realm? > There are old diecast kits, the new PRR E-6 has the same construction > as the K-11 I got in the mid 60s > The only thing is it has a newer type motor than the older locomotive ********************************************************************* Those models are indeed vintage. Most of those Bowser diecast locos were old Penn Line animals, once all the rage in the HO world. Made in the 50's by Charlie Penn, in of all places...Pennsylvania. English (Bowser) had redone many of the parts, both cast and stamped, but kept their original elegance. These locos all represent their prototypes well, and can still be found on many working layouts as of today. They still remain very revered by their owners, who claim their tractive effort will still match, or surpass many newer steam locos of todays offerings. I know of guys who have converted some over to good can motors, and DCC sound. Along with adding numerous Cal-Scale details, making them almost equal to todays Broadway Limited engines in appearance alone, if not matching or exceeding Broadways overall performance. Case in point, A good friend of mine had a Bowser PRR M1, that pulled 70 loaded 40'(MDC and Bowser) hoppers without a sweat. I know that a Broadway Limited model will NOT do that. We tried it. Your're lucky to get one of them to pull 30 (empties) of the same cars on the same track. It is to be noted that that old Bowser/Penn line M1 looked just as nice as the Broadway engine does. Differance??? The Bowser is a heavy Zimac casting, and the Broadway is not. Bill C.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4468	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Jerry White passes

I think Jerry got involved with Kurtz Kraft a bit earlier--perhaps 1955--the boxcar, and then a reefer came out around 1957. I have one of each in kits somewhere. Had to be the first "Plastic Craftsman Kit"--and he had the wisdom to provide plenty of the breakable grab irons. I got to know Jerry several years before I was eligible to join the West Bay Club. There was an article about him in MR back in the early 50's--"Meet the Man Who Builds Thousand-Dollar Locomotives" --and that was when $1000 really bought something--like even a down payment on a house. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:50 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Jerry White passes

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4469	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others

Track Cleaning Car sounds like Ulrich. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom" <papa.smurf5@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Seek info on item/searching for others > HI AGAIN: > 1. Have wood/metal track cleaning car kit[bought many years ago; > can't remember brand & no original box]. About 40'. Half caboose > & other half holds heavy cylindrical metal tank for track cleaning > solution, with screw-on cap. Might be Ambroid/Northeastern but not > sure. Is anyone familiar with this car? > 2. Seeking info on 50s-60s Swifts meat packing plant. Possibly kit; > maybe Revell or other brand. Remember seeing in 50s-60s magazine > [have tons of RMC/MR back-issues]. Maybe someone here remembers? > 3. Anyone have a book by Frank Ellison? Maybe sell/swap? [fondly > remember his 'smileposts' & painted layout structures]. > 4. Could use a few: 36- 40' two bay hoppers, 40' box of various > type, small oil tank cars, drop-end gons. Brand OK as long as car > fits 50s-60s era. Trucks intact would be nice; don't care about > couplers. > 5. Would like to find old gas electric. Prefer beat-up one in need > of TLC/re-motor, as intend to kitbash into freelance, shorty version > for occasional passenger/mail runs. > Old brain cells can't remember anything else for now[need to unpack > years of stuff in storage!]. TTFN.....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4470	From: curmudgeon	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits

Penn Line founder and president was Bob Faust, right? "At Doc Sands Store Bob had access to wholesale model train catalogs and the opportunity to meet some of the salesmen who called on the store. About this same time two brothers -in -law from Boyertown were thinking about going into business together. At first Albert M. (Abe) Mercer and Linwood K. Stauffer were not completely sure what business this would be. Abe dropped into the store often to chat with Bob and look over the wholesale model train catalogs. Bob had frequent chances to talk with the model salesmen. And all three men talked together after hours. Abe and Linwood attended a model train convention and noted that there were not many models available of the locomotives of the Pennsylvania Railroad. Their plan was to produce models of these locomotives, hence the name Penn Line. They got together an example of their work. One day Abe and Bob waited in Doc Sands Store for the weekly visit of a model distributor from Philadelphia. They convinced him to distribute their work if they went into production. Abe would later recall this moment as the official start of the Penn Line Manufacturing Co. Now back to the statement that without the accident there might never have been a Penn Line. Mercer and Stauffer were thinking about going into business. I stress the word "thinking." They had decided that the business would be model trains even before Bob Faust entered the picture. The reality is that Mercer and Stauffer both had secure jobs and young families to support. Bob had the necessity to find a career. Which is why he pushed so hard to gather the information and help from the model distributors who called at the store." http://www.hoseeker.net/pennline/pennlinehistory/early.html > > Hello > > I was wondering if the Bowser kits feel into the vintage H0 kit > realm? > > There are old diecast kits, the new PRR E-6 has the same > construction > > as the K-11 I got in the mid 60s > > The only thing is it has a newer type motor than the older > locomotive > ********************************************************************* > > Those models are indeed vintage. > Most of those Bowser diecast locos were old Penn Line animals, once > all the rage in the HO world. Made in the 50's by Charlie Penn, in > of all places...Pennsylvania. English (Bowser) had redone many of > the parts, both cast and stamped, but kept their original elegance. > These locos all represent their prototypes well, and can still be > found on many working layouts as of today. They still remain very > revered by their owners, who claim their tractive effort will still > match, or surpass many newer steam locos of todays offerings. > > I know of guys who have converted some over to good can motors, and > DCC sound. Along with adding numerous Cal-Scale details, making them > almost equal to todays Broadway Limited engines in appearance alone, > if not matching or exceeding Broadways overall performance. > > Case in point, A good friend of mine had a Bowser PRR M1, that > pulled 70 loaded 40'(MDC and Bowser) hoppers without a sweat. I know > that a Broadway Limited model will NOT do that. We tried it. Your're > lucky to get one of them to pull 30 (empties) of the same cars on > the same track. It is to be noted that that old Bowser/Penn line M1 > looked just as nice as the Broadway engine does. Differance??? The > Bowser is a heavy Zimac casting, and the Broadway is not. > > Bill C. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4471	From: keith gutshall	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits

Hello Bill  They are good kits, assembling them can be very tedious to do.  All the filing and fit of the parts to get them to work good takes a lot of patience.  The PRR E-6 has a new skewed armature motor in it , should run good.    I am going to get a Pacific kit to use to build an RF&P loco that I like. Put details on it to match the photos I have.  Does anybody make an Eleco feedwater heater castings?  Keith "Bill C." <pennsysdaddy@...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "drpshops" <drpshops@.. .> wrote: > > Hello > I was wondering if the Bowser kits feel into the vintage H0 kit realm? > There are old diecast kits, the new PRR E-6 has the same construction > as the K-11 I got in the mid 60s > The only thing is it has a newer type motor than the older locomotive ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* *** Those models are indeed vintage. Most of those Bowser diecast locos were old Penn Line animals, once all the rage in the HO world. Made in the 50's by Charlie Penn, in of all places...Pennsylvan ia. English (Bowser) had redone many of the parts, both cast and stamped, but kept their original elegance. These locos all represent their prototypes well, and can still be found on many working layouts as of today. They still remain very revered by their owners, who claim their tractive effort will still match, or surpass many newer steam locos of todays offerings. I know of guys who have converted some over to good can motors, and DCC sound. Along with adding numerous Cal-Scale details, making them almost equal to todays Broadway Limited engines in appearance alone, if not matching or exceeding Broadways overall performance. Case in point, A good friend of mine had a Bowser PRR M1, that pulled 70 loaded 40'(MDC and Bowser) hoppers without a sweat. I know that a Broadway Limited model will NOT do that. We tried it. Your're lucky to get one of them to pull 30 (empties) of the same cars on the same track. It is to be noted that that old Bowser/Penn line M1 looked just as nice as the Broadway engine does. Differance?? ? The Bowser is a heavy Zimac casting, and the Broadway is not. Bill C. Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4472	From: Jerry Prather	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:53:36 -0700 (PDT), keith gutshall wrote: >Does anybody make an Eleco feedwater heater castings? CalScale did. I don't know if they're still available, though. Cheers, Jerry -- A fine is a tax for doing wrong; a tax is a fine for doing well. - Unknown

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4473	From: jay matz	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits

Look in the Walthers catalog you will find it there or Yardbird Classic Trains Jay Jerry Prather <prather.js@...> wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:53:36 -0700 (PDT), keith gutshall wrote: >Does anybody make an Eleco feedwater heater castings? CalScale did. I don't know if they're still available, though. Cheers, Jerry -- A fine is a tax for doing wrong; a tax is a fine for doing well. - Unknown __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4474	From: Mary Long	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits

Jerry check withDan at Yardbird . Hank H Jerry Prather <prather.js@...> wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:53:36 -0700 (PDT), keith gutshall wrote: >Does anybody make an Eleco feedwater heater castings? CalScale did. I don't know if they're still available, though. Cheers, Jerry -- A fine is a tax for doing wrong; a tax is a fine for doing well. - Unknown

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4475	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits

I have noticed many people in this group looking for detail parts such as this Elesco feedwater heater. may I suggest Precision Scale Products. I used their catalog to order any part that I may need. They carry all the old Kemtron line in brass and plastic. They also provide excellent brass detail parts (the same as used on the imported brass models) They carry over 17, 000 types of brass details and kits (according to their web site). I find their line of products superior to Cal Scale in quality (I'm not trying  to put down Cal Scale in any way, they have great products, as well). They also carry many brass kits such as locomotives and railcars, etc. You will not be able to see many parts on the web site, you will need to order a catalog, but it will be well worth the $18 or so dollars in the long run. See the following link to their site:  http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ In case the link didn't go through, you can copy and paste this in your browser http://www.precisionscaleco.com/   Those of you looking for drivers for steam locomotives and other great products can go to Greenway products. They carry many steam locomotive drivers to replace those worn out or broken ones you may have. http://www.greenwayproducts.com/a_drivers.shtml    I am not connected with either of these companies and I am not trying to sell anything here, I am a modeler just like you, just trying to pass on some information that may help.   Regards, Brian See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4476	From: Loopy	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mary Long <long95209@...> wrote: > > Jerry check withDan at Yardbird . Hank H > > Jerry Prather <prather.js@...> wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:53:36 -0700 (PDT), keith gutshall wrote: > > >Does anybody make an Eleco feedwater heater castings? > > CalScale did. I don't know if they're still available, though. > > Cheers, > > Jerry > -- > A fine is a tax for doing wrong; a tax is a fine for doing well. > - Unknown > New member here. The Elesco Feedwater System by Cal Scale part#190-2003 is still being made by Bowser Manufacturing http://bowser-trains.com/ The Elesco is on page 3 of the PDF file here http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/calscale/calscale.htm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4477	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others

Well, I don't remember for certain the manufacturer, Ulrich seems right, as I didn't build the kit, being a bit on the young side when it was purchased. It was dad or my brother that built it. And it worked pretty good at that time. But then it, and most of our train stuff, sat unused for a period until I started modeling on my own. I found the car one day and thought I had a found an easy way to keep that old brass rail clean. Well, that felt pad dried out and/or hardened and the fluid would run out of the tank about as fast as I could pour it in. Tightening the cap didn't really improve matters any either. I do know we got the kit when it was a new product and put it in use pretty quickly. But I have a feeling that if you get a kit that has been sitting on the shelf a few years, it likely never work good due to the age of the felt. In my case, where the felt pad had several miles of cleaning on it and then sat, it turned into something resembling a brick and just would not retain any fluild at all. John Hagen Milwaukee, WI --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Track Cleaning Car sounds like Ulrich. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom" <papa.smurf5@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:58 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Seek info on item/searching for others > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4478	From: Glenn476	Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits

you might start right there in Bowser's catalog--under "Cal Scale", then on to PSC. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: keith gutshall To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bowser Kits

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4479	From: sean naylor	Date: 11/1/2007
Subject: Re: New here; old geezer; into modeling transition era in New Englan

Hello Tom,   Welcome!    First off... Glad to hear you son has returned un-harmed!   ...as for control, to some here it be a matter of concern, but to me, as long as the eqiupment you run is vintage, it's all good!   I see you failed to mention any New Haven in that line-up of yours...  too bad I guess..   Sean Tom <papa.smurf5@...> wrote: HI FOLKS: Sincerely hope I fit in here; will explain layout plans. Grew up in '40s; saw diesels replace steam in Springfield, MA; birthplace/home town, until separated from Air Force in '60. In and out of HO 50+ years. Have ton of stuff stored but had to surrender upstairs spare bedroom to youngest son[of 8 offspring]when he returned safe from Iraq last year[THANK YOU LORD!]. Now have chance to finally start freelance northern New England, point-to-point, narrow shelf, a-t-r, branchline switching layout, roughly set in 1959-1960. T'will have reverse loop at upper A terminal; runaround track/TT at lower B terminal. Have 7 locos: B&M F7, D&H Sharknose, RUT RS1, MEC GP7, CV S4, B&M 2-6-0 and 0-6-0T; need to get more early rolling stock and structures. Some proposed trackside industries, to-date: REA warehouse/small meat packer/feed- grain mill/scrap metal yard/ fire truck rebuilder/textile mill/coal-oil dealer/team tracks/ milk platforms. Want several rivers, bridges[2 covered]; plenty of New England scenery. Instead of doing Autumn, plan to do late Summer with very slight hint of color change. Didn't mention choice of train control, couplers, track/turnouts, as they don't fit the era of this Group[although I model transition era, feel I should use products which have worked well for me]. Am open to lots of advice, ideas, suggestions of my proposed ideas and hope to share & learn from your experience. TTFN..... Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4480	From: Tom	Date: 11/1/2007
Subject: Re: New here; old geezer; into modeling transition era in New Englan

sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > Hello Tom, Welcome! > First off... Glad to hear you son has returned un-harmed! > ...as for control, to some here it be a matter of concern, but to > me, as long as the equipment you run is vintage, it's all good! > I see you failed to mention any New Haven in that line-up of > yours... too bad I guess..... Sean PROFOUND APOLOGIES SEAN! Didn't want to post 'my life's history' in initial post! Did not mention the family's annual summer trips to visit relatives in NYC, just after WWII ended. From Springfield's Union Station at crack of dawn, on NYNH&H train to NYC[first by steam, then F units, when steam retired]. Loco swap in New Haven to the Super NHNH&H electrics; then all the way to Grand Central Station in Manhatten. Can still fondly remember those trips! TTFN..... Old Tom in NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4481	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 11/1/2007
Subject: Seek info on item/searching for others

>1. Have wood/metal track cleaning car kit[bought many years ago; >can't remember brand & no original box]. About 40'. Half caboose >& other half holds heavy cylindrical metal tank for track cleaning >solution, with screw-on cap. Might be Ambroid/Northeastern but not >sure. Is anyone familiar with this car? Ulrich. I have several and have been eyeing them to see whether or not they might still be useful in today's track cleaning environment. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4482	From: bitlerisvj	Date: 11/4/2007
Subject: Ambroid No 10. Speedy Poultry and Reefer

Hi folks, I just bought one of these, Ambroid No 10. Speedy Poultry and Reefer, at a train show. However, the plans inside are for the Livesay Poultry Car. I was wondering if anyone had the Speedy Poultry and Reefer plans and could either scan and send them via email or copy them and send them snail mail I would be happy to pay the postage for these. If they are like the Livesay Poultry car, it should be only one side of a sheet. I will be posting to HOModelers and Fine Scale Minitaures to see if anyone has these. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4483	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/4/2007
Subject: RDC

Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit into the metal Athearn RDC.  Should work fine--but I would like to find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to hack up the original truck.  thanx for any help-- gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4484	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/4/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Not sure if that is really what you want to do. The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held together with a horizontal 2-56 screw. Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn Dual- Geared Geeps. I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one of the guys on the list. Need a couple, let me know. Dave > Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like to find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4485	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical surfaces to mount the sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original RDC sideframes--and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I figure I can file the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing like the F-/ GP truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck frames. Thanx ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held together > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn Dual- > Geared Geeps. > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one of > the guys on the list. > Need a couple, let me know. > Dave > > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like to > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4486	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to something that worked! What do the sideframes look like? > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical surfaces to mount the > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original RDC > sideframes--and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I figure I can file > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing like the F-/ GP > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck frames. > Thanx > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > > > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held together > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn Dual- > > Geared Geeps. > > > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one of > > the guys on the list. > > Need a couple, let me know. > > Dave > > > > > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like to > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4487	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

The RDC truck looks sort of like an anorexic AAR type B truck--or a typical 4-wheel passenger truck with straight equalizers. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:00 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. > Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to something that > worked! > > What do the sideframes look like? > > >> The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical surfaces to > mount the >> sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original RDC >> sideframes--and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I figure I > can file >> the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing like the > F-/ GP >> truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck > frames. >> Thanx >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC >> >> >> > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. >> > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and >> > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. >> > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held > together >> > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. >> > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no >> > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn > Dual- >> > Geared Geeps. >> > >> > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one > of >> > the guys on the list. >> > Need a couple, let me know. >> > Dave >> > >> > >> >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit >> > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like > to >> > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have > to >> > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4488	From: Wobbly913	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

This "Bull Ant" power truck sounds quite interesting to me as I have several dummy metal RDC's that it would be nice to power up as well as a couple of powered models that the motor no longer runs on. I have been unable to locate the first post where these were talked about, could you please repost who the manufacturer is and where they come from?   As for your need for side frames...as a last resort you could do some modifications on standard 2 axle passenger trucks and get something that while it would not look quite right might do in a total bind.  It looks to me like the axles have close to the same spacing.   Thanks in advance Wobbly913 Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit into the metal Athearn RDC.  Should work fine--but I would like to find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to hack up the original truck.  thanx for any help-- gj __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4489	From: keith gutshall	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Hello The old RDC I have has a drop equalizer truck like a 4 wheel passenger truck.  More like a GE- B type truck.  I have one I am repowering useing the drop equalizer trucks.  Keith Gutshall curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to something that worked! What do the sideframes look like? > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical surfaces to mount the > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original RDC > sideframes-- and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I figure I can file > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing like the F-/ GP > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck frames. > Thanx > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > > > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held together > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn Dual- > > Geared Geeps. > > > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one of > > the guys on the list. > > Need a couple, let me know. > > Dave > > > > > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like to > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4490	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

I got the info from Rich Steele at LaBelle Woodworking--he uses the trucks in his HO trolley kits.   Site is: http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdisplayproducts    Tell Geoff that you are interested in the truck he just built for me.   as a last resort I'll hack up the original Athearn dummy truck.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RDC This "Bull Ant" power truck sounds quite interesting to me as I have several dummy metal RDC's that it would be nice to power up as well as a couple of powered models that the motor no longer runs on. I have been unable to locate the first post where these were talked about, could you please repost who the manufacturer is and where they come from?   As for your need for side frames...as a last resort you could do some modifications on standard 2 axle passenger trucks and get something that while it would not look quite right might do in a total bind.  It looks to me like the axles have close to the same spacing.   Thanks in advance Wobbly913 Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit into the metal Athearn RDC.  Should work fine--but I would like to find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to hack up the original truck.  thanx for any help-- gj __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4491	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Yes--that's it.  Anyone got one of the Hi-F ones?gj ----- Original Message ----- From: keith gutshall To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Hello The old RDC I have has a drop equalizer truck like a 4 wheel passenger truck.  More like a GE- B type truck.  I have one I am repowering useing the drop equalizer trucks.  Keith Gutshall curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to something that worked! What do the sideframes look like? > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical surfaces to mount the > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original RDC > sideframes-- and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I figure I can file > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing like the F-/ GP > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck frames. > Thanx > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > > > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held together > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn Dual- > > Geared Geeps. > > > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one of > > the guys on the list. > > Need a couple, let me know. > > Dave > > > > > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like to > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4492	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

I have a dummy undec that I would sell for $9.00 plus shipping it is a new in the box RDC 1, with all parts.  The trucks are all metal, but look like the sideframes could be sawed off without too much trouble.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Yes--that's it.  Anyone got one of the Hi-F ones?gj ----- Original Message ----- From: keith gutshall To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Hello The old RDC I have has a drop equalizer truck like a 4 wheel passenger truck.  More like a GE- B type truck.  I have one I am repowering useing the drop equalizer trucks.  Keith Gutshall curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to something that worked! What do the sideframes look like? > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical surfaces to mount the > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original RDC > sideframes-- and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I figure I can file > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing like the F-/ GP > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck frames. > Thanx > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > > > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held together > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn Dual- > > Geared Geeps. > > > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one of > > the guys on the list. > > Need a couple, let me know. > > Dave > > > > > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like to > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4493	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

is that metal or plastic body? ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC I have a dummy undec that I would sell for $9.00 plus shipping it is a new in the box RDC 1, with all parts.  The trucks are all metal, but look like the sideframes could be sawed off without too much trouble.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Yes--that's it.  Anyone got one of the Hi-F ones?gj ----- Original Message ----- From: keith gutshall To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Hello The old RDC I have has a drop equalizer truck like a 4 wheel passenger truck.  More like a GE- B type truck.  I have one I am repowering useing the drop equalizer trucks.  Keith Gutshall curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to something that worked! What do the sideframes look like? > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical surfaces to mount the > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original RDC > sideframes-- and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I figure I can file > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing like the F-/ GP > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck frames. > Thanx > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > > > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held together > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn Dual- > > Geared Geeps. > > > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one of > > the guys on the list. > > Need a couple, let me know. > > Dave > > > > > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like to > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4494	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Looking at the drawings on hoseeker, it appears there is a big difference in design of the outside of the 1953 and the 1964 sideframes. > Yes--that's it. Anyone got one of the Hi-F ones?gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: keith gutshall > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:12 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > > > Hello > The old RDC I have has a drop equalizer truck like a 4 wheel passenger truck. > More like a GE- B type truck. > I have one I am repowering useing the drop equalizer trucks. > Keith Gutshall > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. > Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to something that > worked! > > What do the sideframes look like? > > > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical surfaces to > mount the > > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original RDC > > sideframes--and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I figure I > can file > > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing like the > F-/ GP > > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck > frames. > > Thanx > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > > > > > > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. > > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and > > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. > > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held > together > > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. > > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no > > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn > Dual- > > > Geared Geeps. > > > > > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one > of > > > the guys on the list. > > > Need a couple, let me know. > > > Dave > > > > > > > > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit > > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like > to > > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have > to > > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deep Run Portage > Back Shop > " The Lizard Works" > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4495	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Sorry I forgot about that, it is a plastic body.   Roger     ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC is that metal or plastic body? ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC I have a dummy undec that I would sell for $9.00 plus shipping it is a new in the box RDC 1, with all parts.  The trucks are all metal, but look like the sideframes could be sawed off without too much trouble.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Yes--that's it.  Anyone got one of the Hi-F ones?gj ----- Original Message ----- From: keith gutshall To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Hello The old RDC I have has a drop equalizer truck like a 4 wheel passenger truck.  More like a GE- B type truck.  I have one I am repowering useing the drop equalizer trucks.  Keith Gutshall curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to something that worked! What do the sideframes look like? > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical surfaces to mount the > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original RDC > sideframes-- and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I figure I can file > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing like the F-/ GP > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck frames. > Thanx > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > > > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held together > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn Dual- > > Geared Geeps. > > > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one of > > the guys on the list. > > Need a couple, let me know. > > Dave > > > > > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like to > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4496	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Yes--that's due to the earlier one being the all metal model, while the 64 version was the plastic one with Hi-F drive. The metal one had a double shell--inner was steel sheet, outer stainless corrugated, with die cast ends, dome and underbody parts. Another steel sheet or two with the underbody. Earlier one had a vertical shaft motor with a series of gears driving the second axle, first axle directly driven with worm on motor shaft. gj gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > Looking at the drawings on hoseeker, it appears there is a big > difference in design of the outside of the 1953 and the 1964 > sideframes. > >> Yes--that's it. Anyone got one of the Hi-F ones?gj >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: keith gutshall >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC >> >> >> Hello >> The old RDC I have has a drop equalizer truck like a 4 wheel > passenger truck. >> More like a GE- B type truck. >> I have one I am repowering useing the drop equalizer trucks. >> Keith Gutshall >> >> curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: >> Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. >> Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to > something that >> worked! >> >> What do the sideframes look like? >> >> > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical > surfaces to >> mount the >> > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original > RDC >> > sideframes--and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I > figure I >> can file >> > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing > like the >> F-/ GP >> > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck >> frames. >> > Thanx >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> >> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC >> > >> > >> > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. >> > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt > motor and >> > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. >> > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held >> together >> > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. >> > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels > and no >> > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or > Athearn >> Dual- >> > > Geared Geeps. >> > > >> > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras > from one >> of >> > > the guys on the list. >> > > Need a couple, let me know. >> > > Dave >> > > >> > > >> > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck > would fit >> > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would > like >> to >> > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not > to have >> to >> > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Deep Run Portage >> Back Shop >> " The Lizard Works" >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4497	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

I would only be looking for a single truck, so would hate to hack up a complete one.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Sorry I forgot about that, it is a plastic body.   Roger     ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC is that metal or plastic body? ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC I have a dummy undec that I would sell for $9.00 plus shipping it is a new in the box RDC 1, with all parts.  The trucks are all metal, but look like the sideframes could be sawed off without too much trouble.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Yes--that's it.  Anyone got one of the Hi-F ones?gj ----- Original Message ----- From: keith gutshall To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Hello The old RDC I have has a drop equalizer truck like a 4 wheel passenger truck.  More like a GE- B type truck.  I have one I am repowering useing the drop equalizer trucks.  Keith Gutshall curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote: Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to something that worked! What do the sideframes look like? > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical surfaces to mount the > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original RDC > sideframes-- and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I figure I can file > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing like the F-/ GP > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck frames. > Thanx > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > > > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt motor and > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held together > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels and no > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or Athearn Dual- > > Geared Geeps. > > > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras from one of > > the guys on the list. > > Need a couple, let me know. > > Dave > > > > > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would like to > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4498	From: Wobbly913	Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Thanks for your reply.  Lots of neat stuff.   Wobbly913 Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: I got the info from Rich Steele at LaBelle Woodworking--he uses the trucks in his HO trolley kits.   Site is: http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdisplayproducts    Tell Geoff that you are interested in the truck he just built for me.   as a last resort I'll hack up the original Athearn dummy truck.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RDC This "Bull Ant" power truck sounds quite interesting to me as I have several dummy metal RDC's that it would be nice to power up as well as a couple of powered models that the motor no longer runs on. I have been unable to locate the first post where these were talked about, could you please repost who the manufacturer is and where they come from?   As for your need for side frames...as a last resort you could do some modifications on standard 2 axle passenger trucks and get something that while it would not look quite right might do in a total bind.  It looks to me like the axles have close to the same spacing.   Thanks in advance Wobbly913 Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit into the metal Athearn RDC.  Should work fine--but I would like to find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to hack up the original truck.  thanx for any help-- gj __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4499	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

>The RDC truck looks sort of like an anorexic AAR type B truck--or a typical >4-wheel passenger truck with straight equalizers. It looks anorectic simply because the top chords of the side truck frames are truncated at both both ends, reflecting that it had disc brakes, and ergo, no need for brake hangers. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4500	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

but also the horizontal members are much slimmer that a Type B truck. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > >The RDC truck looks sort of like an anorexic AAR type B truck--or a > >typical >>4-wheel passenger truck with straight equalizers. > > > It looks anorectic simply because the top chords of the side truck > frames are truncated at both both ends, reflecting that it had disc > brakes, and ergo, no need for brake hangers. > > Denny > > > -- > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4501	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

I need some RDC side-frames for my stashed original bodies. I think I have an RDC truck put away......... I'm not efficient at all. But if I can find mine, I'll be making some Alumilite dups for my own use. Wait a short while before cutting up one of the last remaining RDC trucks. I could have dups in a week or so. If nothing else, Don D. might let me get together with me and allow me to use some instant setting RTV on one of his RDC trucks.... and I'll have my copies. If anyone wants to try waiting a bit longer still. I have a new cnc-cutter that can make the major parts for such a side-frame from scale drawings or any drawings or cad.  I'll not have that machine in operation until next week; after TrainFest. But that machine and some common diesel detail parts like journals and NBW castings can make any un-available side-frames. Anyone for a train of pendulum coaches made from a scan of the one car I was able to locate some time ago? Or the like as I get into my Paul Moore projects. I know, vintage cars. But not original kits............. I've got to get this machine going......... I've got my eyes on the 4-5 proposed Hiawatha cars that are in the books, but never were built. I've got a week off for Thanksgiving week and again for Xmas.......... I've got no invites to be anywhere during those weeks and only expect one or two. So I should be spending a lot of time with this set-up. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Nov 5, 2007, at 7:08 PM, Glenn476 wrote: I got the info from Rich Steele at LaBelle Woodworking--he uses the trucks in his HO trolley kits.   Site is: http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdisplayproducts    Tell Geoff that you are interested in the truck he just built for me.   as a last resort I'll hack up the original Athearn dummy truck.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 This "Bull Ant" power truck sounds quite interesting to me as I have several dummy metal RDC's that it would be nice to power up as well as a couple of powered models that the motor no longer runs on. I have been unable to locate the first post where these were talked about, could you please repost who the manufacturer is and where they come from?   As for your need for side frames...as a last resort you could do some modifications on standard 2 axle passenger trucks and get something that while it would not look quite right might do in a total bind.  It looks to me like the axles have close to the same spacing.   Thanks in advance Wobbly913 Glenn476  wrote: Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit into the metal Athearn RDC.  Should work fine--but I would like to find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to hack up the original truck.  thanx for any help-- gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4502	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Details West

I have a BIG box (for H0, anyway) of Details West parts. However, they are in envelopes with different part numbers on them (altho the last part seems to generally match up). I am trying to find some NB-165, but wondering if anybody knows what the older number is? Thanks.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4503	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Mike--I could loan you a truck to use as patterns in exchange for a set of the castings (and return of the truck)  flat back on the castings would work OK with the Bull Ant truck.  gj     ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RDC I need some RDC side-frames for my stashed original bodies. I think I have an RDC truck put away......... I'm not efficient at all. But if I can find mine, I'll be making some Alumilite dups for my own use. Wait a short while before cutting up one of the last remaining RDC trucks. I could have dups in a week or so. If nothing else, Don D. might let me get together with me and allow me to use some instant setting RTV on one of his RDC trucks.... and I'll have my copies. If anyone wants to try waiting a bit longer still. I have a new cnc-cutter that can make the major parts for such a side-frame from scale drawings or any drawings or cad.  I'll not have that machine in operation until next week; after TrainFest. But that machine and some common diesel detail parts like journals and NBW castings can make any un-available side-frames. Anyone for a train of pendulum coaches made from a scan of the one car I was able to locate some time ago? Or the like as I get into my Paul Moore projects. I know, vintage cars. But not original kits............. I've got to get this machine going......... I've got my eyes on the 4-5 proposed Hiawatha cars that are in the books, but never were built. I've got a week off for Thanksgiving week and again for Xmas.......... I've got no invites to be anywhere during those weeks and only expect one or two. So I should be spending a lot of time with this set-up. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Nov 5, 2007, at 7:08 PM, Glenn476 wrote: I got the info from Rich Steele at LaBelle Woodworking--he uses the trucks in his HO trolley kits.   Site is: http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdisplayproducts    Tell Geoff that you are interested in the truck he just built for me.   as a last resort I'll hack up the original Athearn dummy truck.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 This "Bull Ant" power truck sounds quite interesting to me as I have several dummy metal RDC's that it would be nice to power up as well as a couple of powered models that the motor no longer runs on. I have been unable to locate the first post where these were talked about, could you please repost who the manufacturer is and where they come from?   As for your need for side frames...as a last resort you could do some modifications on standard 2 axle passenger trucks and get something that while it would not look quite right might do in a total bind.  It looks to me like the axles have close to the same spacing.   Thanks in advance Wobbly913 Glenn476  wrote: Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit into the metal Athearn RDC.  Should work fine--but I would like to find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to hack up the original truck.  thanx for any help-- gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4504	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: Details West

----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Details West >I have a BIG box (for H0, anyway) of Details West parts. > However, they are in envelopes with different part numbers on them > (altho the last part seems to generally match up). > I am trying to find some NB-165, but wondering if anybody knows what > the older number is? > > Thanks. In an older (1984) Walthers catalog I see their (Walthers) part number as 235-165, number boards for Athearn F-7. I was looking for some just a few weeks ago to put on a Varney F-3, and when I checked Walthers they weren't listed anymore, that's why I went with the small side mounted style from Precision Scale. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4505	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Actually I'll be WITH Mike all next weekend (Trainfest), I'll bring a dummy along to the show.   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn476 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 6:46 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RDC Mike--I could loan you a truck to use as patterns in exchange for a set of the castings (and return of the truck)  flat back on the castings would work OK with the Bull Ant truck.  gj     ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RDC I need some RDC side-frames for my stashed original bodies. I think I have an RDC truck put away......... I'm not efficient at all. But if I can find mine, I'll be making some Alumilite dups for my own use. Wait a short while before cutting up one of the last remaining RDC trucks. I could have dups in a week or so. If nothing else, Don D. might let me get together with me and allow me to use some instant setting RTV on one of his RDC trucks.... and I'll have my copies. If anyone wants to try waiting a bit longer still. I have a new cnc-cutter that can make the major parts for such a side-frame from scale drawings or any drawings or cad.  I'll not have that machine in operation until next week; after TrainFest. But that machine and some common diesel detail parts like journals and NBW castings can make any un-available side-frames. Anyone for a train of pendulum coaches made from a scan of the one car I was able to locate some time ago? Or the like as I get into my Paul Moore projects. I know, vintage cars. But not original kits............. I've got to get this machine going......... I've got my eyes on the 4-5 proposed Hiawatha cars that are in the books, but never were built. I've got a week off for Thanksgiving week and again for Xmas.......... I've got no invites to be anywhere during those weeks and only expect one or two. So I should be spending a lot of time with this set-up. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Nov 5, 2007, at 7:08 PM, Glenn476 wrote: I got the info from Rich Steele at LaBelle Woodworking--he uses the trucks in his HO trolley kits.   Site is: http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdisplayproducts    Tell Geoff that you are interested in the truck he just built for me.   as a last resort I'll hack up the original Athearn dummy truck.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 This "Bull Ant" power truck sounds quite interesting to me as I have several dummy metal RDC's that it would be nice to power up as well as a couple of powered models that the motor no longer runs on. I have been unable to locate the first post where these were talked about, could you please repost who the manufacturer is and where they come from?   As for your need for side frames...as a last resort you could do some modifications on standard 2 axle passenger trucks and get something that while it would not look quite right might do in a total bind.  It looks to me like the axles have close to the same spacing.   Thanks in advance Wobbly913 Glenn476  wrote: Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit into the metal Athearn RDC.  Should work fine--but I would like to find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to hack up the original truck.  thanx for any help-- gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4506	From: Don Grant	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

I seem to recall that the power truck for the metal RDC,s was similar or the same as the truck used on Penn Scale Models (later Bowser) streetcars. Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: Yes--that's due to the earlier one being the all metal model, while the 64 version was the plastic one with Hi-F drive. The metal one had a double shell--inner was steel sheet, outer stainless corrugated, with die cast ends, dome and underbody parts. Another steel sheet or two with the underbody. Earlier one had a vertical shaft motor with a series of gears driving the second axle, first axle directly driven with worm on motor shaft. gj gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" To: Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > Looking at the drawings on hoseeker, it appears there is a big > difference in design of the outside of the 1953 and the 1964 > sideframes. > >> Yes--that's it. Anyone got one of the Hi-F ones?gj >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: keith gutshall >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC >> >> >> Hello >> The old RDC I have has a drop equalizer truck like a 4 wheel > passenger truck. >> More like a GE- B type truck. >> I have one I am repowering useing the drop equalizer trucks. >> Keith Gutshall >> >> curmudgeon wrote: >> Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. >> Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to > something that >> worked! >> >> What do the sideframes look like? >> >> > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical > surfaces to >> mount the >> > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original > RDC >> > sideframes--and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I > figure I >> can file >> > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing > like the >> F-/ GP >> > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck >> frames. >> > Thanx >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "curmudgeon" >> > To: >> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC >> > >> > >> > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. >> > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt > motor and >> > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. >> > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held >> together >> > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. >> > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels > and no >> > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or > Athearn >> Dual- >> > > Geared Geeps. >> > > >> > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras > from one >> of >> > > the guys on the list. >> > > Need a couple, let me know. >> > > Dave >> > > >> > > >> > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck > would fit >> > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would > like >> to >> > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not > to have >> to >> > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Deep Run Portage >> Back Shop >> " The Lizard Works" >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4507	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Similar truck--but longer wheelbase on the RDC.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Grant To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC I seem to recall that the power truck for the metal RDC,s was similar or the same as the truck used on Penn Scale Models (later Bowser) streetcars. Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: Yes--that's due to the earlier one being the all metal model, while the 64 version was the plastic one with Hi-F drive. The metal one had a double shell--inner was steel sheet, outer stainless corrugated, with die cast ends, dome and underbody parts. Another steel sheet or two with the underbody. Earlier one had a vertical shaft motor with a series of gears driving the second axle, first axle directly driven with worm on motor shaft. gj gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" To: Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > Looking at the drawings on hoseeker, it appears there is a big > difference in design of the outside of the 1953 and the 1964 > sideframes. > >> Yes--that's it. Anyone got one of the Hi-F ones?gj >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: keith gutshall >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC >> >> >> Hello >> The old RDC I have has a drop equalizer truck like a 4 wheel > passenger truck. >> More like a GE- B type truck. >> I have one I am repowering useing the drop equalizer trucks. >> Keith Gutshall >> >> curmudgeon wrote: >> Odd. Every one of these I ever saw had Blombergs on it. >> Maybe the ones I saw were just "modified by owner" to > something that >> worked! >> >> What do the sideframes look like? >> >> > The "Bull Ant" has a plastic "bolster" with vertical > surfaces to >> mount the >> > sideframes on--top is too high to mount the Athearn original > RDC >> > sideframes--and I don't want to cut up that truck--so I > figure I >> can file >> > the back of the Hi-F truck to fit. This truck is nothing > like the >> F-/ GP >> > truck. so I need to find a couple of the later (Hi-F) truck >> frames. >> > Thanx >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "curmudgeon" >> > To: >> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:32 PM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC >> > >> > >> > > Not sure if that is really what you want to do. >> > > The photos of the Bull And show limited space betwixt > motor and >> > > truck, looks similar to old Varney dismal drive space. >> > > The Hi-F havd a fairly large cross-section crossbeam, held >> together >> > > with a horizontal 2-56 screw. >> > > Might be a better idea (especially with the powered wheels > and no >> > > axle subs) to use plastic sideframes, like on Globe or > Athearn >> Dual- >> > > Geared Geeps. >> > > >> > > I was missing one sideframe on my Geep, got some extras > from one >> of >> > > the guys on the list. >> > > Need a couple, let me know. >> > > Dave >> > > >> > > >> > >> Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck > would fit >> > > into the metal Athearn RDC. Should work fine--but I would > like >> to >> > > find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not > to have >> to >> > > hack up the original truck. thanx for any help-- gj >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Deep Run Portage >> Back Shop >> " The Lizard Works" >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4508	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Thanks for the offer. I really should look on the shelves first. I'm certain I have a second generation RDC there; just haven't touched it for many years. I've got a strong memory of running it on a tight radius city trolley layout. I think I have one or two power trucks in the parts drawer. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Nov 6, 2007, at 6:46 PM, Glenn476 wrote: Mike--I could loan you a truck to use as patterns in exchange for a set of the castings (and return of the truck)  flat back on the castings would work OK with the Bull Ant truck.  gj     ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RDC I need some RDC side-frames for my stashed original bodies. I think I have an RDC truck put away......... I'm not efficient at all. But if I can find mine, I'll be making some Alumilite dups for my own use. Wait a short while before cutting up one of the last remaining RDC trucks. I could have dups in a week or so. If nothing else, Don D. might let me get together with me and allow me to use some instant setting RTV on one of his RDC trucks.... and I'll have my copies. If anyone wants to try waiting a bit longer still. I have a new cnc-cutter that can make the major parts for such a side-frame from scale drawings or any drawings or cad.  I'll not have that machine in operation until next week; after TrainFest. But that machine and some common diesel detail parts like journals and NBW castings can make any un-available side-frames. Anyone for a train of pendulum coaches made from a scan of the one car I was able to locate some time ago? Or the like as I get into my Paul Moore projects. I know, vintage cars. But not original kits............. I've got to get this machine going......... I've got my eyes on the 4-5 proposed Hiawatha cars that are in the books, but never were built. I've got a week off for Thanksgiving week and again for Xmas.......... I've got no invites to be anywhere during those weeks and only expect one or two. So I should be spending a lot of time with this set-up. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Nov 5, 2007, at 7:08 PM, Glenn476 wrote: I got the info from Rich Steele at LaBelle Woodworking--he uses the trucks in his HO trolley kits.   Site is: http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdisplayproducts    Tell Geoff that you are interested in the truck he just built for me.   as a last resort I'll hack up the original Athearn dummy truck.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 This "Bull Ant" power truck sounds quite interesting to me as I have several dummy metal RDC's that it would be nice to power up as well as a couple of powered models that the motor no longer runs on. I have been unable to locate the first post where these were talked about, could you please repost who the manufacturer is and where they come from?   As for your need for side frames...as a last resort you could do some modifications on standard 2 axle passenger trucks and get something that while it would not look quite right might do in a total bind.  It looks to me like the axles have close to the same spacing.   Thanks in advance Wobbly913 Glenn476  wrote: Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit into the metal Athearn RDC.  Should work fine--but I would like to find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to hack up the original truck.  thanx for any help-- gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4509	From: erieberk	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West

The Details West part number NB-165 is listed in their current catalog as "Number Boards: EMD F & E Units." As Don stated, the 1984 Wathers catalog has Details West part number 235-165 (235 is Walthers' prefix number for their Details West line) as "Number Boards: correctly scaled and designed to fit Athearn F-7's, and some roads' E-Units." This same description is inclusive with Walthers starting in their 1979 catalog. While Walthers lists Details West in their 1977 catalog, this item is not yet listed; the Details West company is not included in the 1975 catalog. Walthers currently lists this same Details West part number #165 (their 235-165) as "Auxiliary Numberboards for Switchers -- F- Unit." The "NB" portion of Details West catalog number (NS-165) of course refers to "Number Boards." It would appear as if the part number (165) has never changed throughout the years! Ray W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I have a BIG box (for H0, anyway) of Details West parts. > However, they are in envelopes with different part numbers on them > (altho the last part seems to generally match up). > I am trying to find some NB-165, but wondering if anybody knows what > the older number is? > > Thanks. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4510	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West

Caboose Hobbies says in stock- #0235165 – at $1.00 a pkg.   JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Details West   ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Details West >I have a BIG box (for H0, anyway) of Details West parts. > However, they are in envelopes with different part numbers on them > (altho the last part seems to generally match up). > I am trying to find some NB-165, but wondering if anybody knows what > the older number is? > > Thanks. In an older (1984) Walthers catalog I see their (Walthers) part number as 235-165, number boards for Athearn F-7. I was looking for some just a few weeks ago to put on a Varney F-3, and when I checked Walthers they weren't listed anymore, that's why I went with the small side mounted style from Precision Scale. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4511	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

keep me posted--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:56 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RDC Thanks for the offer. I really should look on the shelves first. I'm certain I have a second generation RDC there; just haven't touched it for many years. I've got a strong memory of running it on a tight radius city trolley layout. I think I have one or two power trucks in the parts drawer. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Nov 6, 2007, at 6:46 PM, Glenn476 wrote: Mike--I could loan you a truck to use as patterns in exchange for a set of the castings (and return of the truck)  flat back on the castings would work OK with the Bull Ant truck.  gj     ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RDC I need some RDC side-frames for my stashed original bodies. I think I have an RDC truck put away......... I'm not efficient at all. But if I can find mine, I'll be making some Alumilite dups for my own use. Wait a short while before cutting up one of the last remaining RDC trucks. I could have dups in a week or so. If nothing else, Don D. might let me get together with me and allow me to use some instant setting RTV on one of his RDC trucks.... and I'll have my copies. If anyone wants to try waiting a bit longer still. I have a new cnc-cutter that can make the major parts for such a side-frame from scale drawings or any drawings or cad.  I'll not have that machine in operation until next week; after TrainFest. But that machine and some common diesel detail parts like journals and NBW castings can make any un-available side-frames. Anyone for a train of pendulum coaches made from a scan of the one car I was able to locate some time ago? Or the like as I get into my Paul Moore projects. I know, vintage cars. But not original kits............. I've got to get this machine going......... I've got my eyes on the 4-5 proposed Hiawatha cars that are in the books, but never were built. I've got a week off for Thanksgiving week and again for Xmas.......... I've got no invites to be anywhere during those weeks and only expect one or two. So I should be spending a lot of time with this set-up. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Nov 5, 2007, at 7:08 PM, Glenn476 wrote: I got the info from Rich Steele at LaBelle Woodworking--he uses the trucks in his HO trolley kits.   Site is: http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdisplayproducts    Tell Geoff that you are interested in the truck he just built for me.   as a last resort I'll hack up the original Athearn dummy truck.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Wobbly913 This "Bull Ant" power truck sounds quite interesting to me as I have several dummy metal RDC's that it would be nice to power up as well as a couple of powered models that the motor no longer runs on. I have been unable to locate the first post where these were talked about, could you please repost who the manufacturer is and where they come from?   As for your need for side frames...as a last resort you could do some modifications on standard 2 axle passenger trucks and get something that while it would not look quite right might do in a total bind.  It looks to me like the axles have close to the same spacing.   Thanks in advance Wobbly913 Glenn476  wrote: Well--I started to see how that "Bull Ant" power truck would fit into the metal Athearn RDC.  Should work fine--but I would like to find a truck from the later Hi-F drive version so as not to have to hack up the original truck.  thanx for any help-- gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4512	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West

I'd like to see those (or similar) in clear plastic to allow illumination.  Wonder who has the dies for the old ScaleLight boards?  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Garteiser To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:07 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Details West Caboose Hobbies says in stock- #0235165 – at $1.00 a pkg.   JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Details West   ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Details West >I have a BIG box (for H0, anyway) of Details West parts. > However, they are in envelopes with different part numbers on them > (altho the last part seems to generally match up). > I am trying to find some NB-165, but wondering if anybody knows what > the older number is? > > Thanks. In an older (1984) Walthers catalog I see their (Walthers) part number as 235-165, number boards for Athearn F-7. I was looking for some just a few weeks ago to put on a Varney F-3, and when I checked Walthers they weren't listed anymore, that's why I went with the small side mounted style from Precision Scale. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4513	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

By bequest many years ago, I came into the possession of a complete set of the varied Athearn metal RDCs, intact except that the original power truck was replaced by the late Gerry White (whose death was recently noticed on this list) with a custom-built drive of his own. Now, I have no memory of what the original Athearn power truck would have been like, and the reason why it would have been replaced. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4514	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West

Kinda what I'm finding. Last part hasn't changed. Paul at Details West thought this was a Details Associates number (close, maybe exact) on the envelope, but the bags inside have the correct tag for DW and P/N. Guess I need to sort 100 parts to see what's there. Thanks. My next bet is to whack a junk Athearn F-unit shell for number boards. > The Details West part number NB-165 is listed in their current catalog > as "Number Boards: EMD F & E Units." As Don stated, the 1984 Wathers > catalog has Details West part number 235-165 (235 is Walthers' prefix > number for their Details West line) as "Number Boards: correctly scaled > and designed to fit Athearn F-7's, and some roads' E-Units." This same > description is inclusive with Walthers starting in their 1979 catalog. > While Walthers lists Details West in their 1977 catalog, this item is > not yet listed; the Details West company is not included in the 1975 > catalog. Walthers currently lists this same Details West part number > #165 (their 235-165) as "Auxiliary Numberboards for Switchers -- F- > Unit." The "NB" portion of Details West catalog number (NS-165) of > course refers to "Number Boards." It would appear as if the part > number (165) has never changed throughout the years! Ray W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > > > > I have a BIG box (for H0, anyway) of Details West parts. > > However, they are in envelopes with different part numbers on them > > (altho the last part seems to generally match up). > > I am trying to find some NB-165, but wondering if anybody knows what > > the older number is? > > > > Thanks. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4515	From: keith gutshall	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Hello Denny  The RDC when I got it had a rubber band drive on it. The motor had a shaft to each end.  The rubber bands went around the shaft then down to the axle.  They were prone to breaking the rubber bands.  They would go 200 scale MPH. They were hard to get to run smooth.  That is why they were fited with new trucks?  Keith Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: By bequest many years ago, I came into the possession of a complete set of the varied Athearn metal RDCs, intact except that the original power truck was replaced by the late Gerry White (whose death was recently noticed on this list) with a custom-built drive of his own. Now, I have no memory of what the original Athearn power truck would have been like, and the reason why it would have been replaced. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4516	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

Did they come from Jerry? or from another source who might have had Jerry re-power them? The original power truck had a vertical-shaft motor--worm drive to the front axle, worm via several gears to the other axle. Bowser offers a similar truck but with a shorter wheelbase, for trolleys. The RDC-1, -2, and -3 were all shortened slightly as were all of Athearn's passenger cars. The RDC-4, originally a shorter unit (RPO-Baggage) turned out to be the correct length. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:00 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RDC > By bequest many years ago, I came into the possession of a complete > set of the varied Athearn metal RDCs, intact except that the original > power truck was replaced by the late Gerry White (whose death was > recently noticed on this list) with a custom-built drive of his own. > Now, I have no memory of what the original Athearn power truck would > have been like, and the reason why it would have been replaced. > > Denny > -- > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4517	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West

Clear plastic number boards... Hmmm... I wonder if you could make a couple of latex rubber molds over some number boards, fill them with 5 minute clear epoxy, and have what you want. I have made 5 minute epoxy parts in the past and they will hold up to reasonable wear if you are not too rough with them. My wife collects dolls and I replaced a missing finger that way. After 20 years we can't even remember which finger it was. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I'd like to see those (or similar) in clear plastic to allow illumination. Wonder who has the dies for the old ScaleLight boards? gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry Garteiser > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:07 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Details West > > > Caboose Hobbies says in stock- #0235165 - at $1.00 a pkg. JerryG > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:53 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Details West > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:21 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Details West > > >I have a BIG box (for H0, anyway) of Details West parts. > > However, they are in envelopes with different part numbers on them > > (altho the last part seems to generally match up). > > I am trying to find some NB-165, but wondering if anybody knows what > > the older number is? > > > > Thanks. > > In an older (1984) Walthers catalog I see their (Walthers) part number as > 235-165, number boards for Athearn F-7. > > I was looking for some just a few weeks ago to put on a Varney F- 3, and when > I checked Walthers they weren't listed anymore, that's why I went with the > small side mounted style from Precision Scale. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4518	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC

That's the later, plastic version.  What we have been discussing is the original metal version. Although, for my purpose, I could use a truck from the later version.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: keith gutshall To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RDC Hello Denny  The RDC when I got it had a rubber band drive on it. The motor had a shaft to each end.  The rubber bands went around the shaft then down to the axle.  They were prone to breaking the rubber bands.  They would go 200 scale MPH. They were hard to get to run smooth.  That is why they were fited with new trucks?  Keith Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: By bequest many years ago, I came into the possession of a complete set of the varied Athearn metal RDCs, intact except that the original power truck was replaced by the late Gerry White (whose death was recently noticed on this list) with a custom-built drive of his own. Now, I have no memory of what the original Athearn power truck would have been like, and the reason why it would have been replaced. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4519	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 11/8/2007
Subject: Athearn metal RDCs/

Glenn Joesten writes- >>By bequest many years ago, I came into the possession of a complete >> set of the varied Athearn metal RDCs, intact except that the original >> power truck was replaced by the late Gerry White... with a >>custom-built drive of his own >Did they come from Jerry? or from another source who might have had Jerry >re-power them? These were in the group of models left to me in 1964 in the estate of Fred Cribbins, who I am certain that Glenn will recall (Fred was one of the finest modelers I have ever known). I never knew whether Fred had these converted by Gerry, or whether Gerry had done the conversion as a lark- which was very common for him, and then Fred bartered, or simply purchased them from him. Knowing Fred, I have always suspected something similar to the latter. BTW, Gerry's power truck is fully equalized and is in the RDC-4 RPO/Baggage. These cars are so heavy that as we speak, any rubber band drive would still be winding up attempting to get off dead center! Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4520	From: Glenn476	Date: 11/8/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn metal RDCs/

yes--I recall Crib--and the process sounds right. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:25 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn metal RDCs/ > Glenn Joesten writes- > >>>By bequest many years ago, I came into the possession of a complete >>> set of the varied Athearn metal RDCs, intact except that the original >>> power truck was replaced by the late Gerry White... with a >>>custom-built drive of his own > >>Did they come from Jerry? or from another source who might have had Jerry >>re-power them? > > These were in the group of models left to me in 1964 in the estate of > Fred Cribbins, who I am certain that Glenn will recall (Fred was one > of the finest modelers I have ever known). I never knew whether Fred > had these converted by Gerry, or whether Gerry had done the > conversion as a lark- which was very common for him, and then Fred > bartered, or simply purchased them from him. Knowing Fred, I have > always suspected something similar to the latter. > > BTW, Gerry's power truck is fully equalized and is in the RDC-4 > RPO/Baggage. > > These cars are so heavy that as we speak, any rubber band drive would > still be winding up attempting to get off dead center! > > Denny > > > -- > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4521	From: Lee	Date: 11/9/2007
Subject: Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits

I recently purchased a box with several older locos (Mantua, Penn Line kit, United, Akane and unknowns) and numerous wooden passenger and other rolling stock kits, with a few partially built. Ulrich, a Wagner's sleeping car, a pultry car, and several differetn reefers. Where would be the better place to reference these for info and then decide if they are worth keeping or better off with someone else that desires to collect them? I doubt that I would build them as I do much more modern. Is there a brass loco yahoo group? I imagine it would be easier to laod a picture but thought I would ask fist if it was worth the effort beforehand. Thanks in advance, Lee

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4522	From: herb1013	Date: 11/9/2007
Subject: HO Train Literature Page 1

Someone on another list I am on sent this link today. Talk about vintage. This has much info to fix older H.O.          Herb the bionic railroader http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4523	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

>----- Original Message ----- >From: herb1013 >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:50 PM >Subject: [vintageHO] HO Train Literature Page 1 >Someone on another list I am on sent this link today. Talk about vintage. >This has much info to fix older H.O. > Herb the bionic railroader >http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html If you go to the group home page and go to links you'll find that link already there <G>. Seriously, it is a fantastic site, and a lot of the information came from some of our very knolwledgeable members here. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4524	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <leetrains@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits >I recently purchased a box with several older locos (Mantua, Penn Line > kit, United, Akane and unknowns) and numerous wooden passenger and > other rolling stock kits, with a few partially built. Ulrich, a > Wagner's sleeping car, a pultry car, and several differetn reefers. > Where would be the better place to reference these for info and then > decide if they are worth keeping or better off with someone else that > desires to collect them? I doubt that I would build them as I do much > more modern. Is there a brass loco yahoo group? I imagine it would be > easier to laod a picture but thought I would ask fist if it was worth > the effort beforehand. Thanks in advance, Lee The best place to find out exactly what they are and get an idea of their worth is right here. If you can post photos of each individual piece, with any information you do have, I'm sure someone could make a positive ID. Also, while this is NOT a "for sale" list, I'd bet many of them could find a home through the list. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4525	From: sean naylor	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits

Hi Lee,   I kind of liked the list myself... Sounds like a great lot!   Sean Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <leetrains@yahoo. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits >I recently purchased a box with several older locos (Mantua, Penn Line > kit, United, Akane and unknowns) and numerous wooden passenger and > other rolling stock kits, with a few partially built. Ulrich, a > Wagner's sleeping car, a pultry car, and several differetn reefers. > Where would be the better place to reference these for info and then > decide if they are worth keeping or better off with someone else that > desires to collect them? I doubt that I would build them as I do much > more modern. Is there a brass loco yahoo group? I imagine it would be > easier to laod a picture but thought I would ask fist if it was worth > the effort beforehand. Thanks in advance, Lee The best place to find out exactly what they are and get an idea of their worth is right here. If you can post photos of each individual piece, with any information you do have, I'm sure someone could make a positive ID. Also, while this is NOT a "for sale" list, I'd bet many of them could find a home through the list. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4526	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1 - access forbidden??

> >If you go to the group home page and go to links you'll find that link >already there <G>. > >Seriously, it is a fantastic site, and a lot of the information came from >some of our very knolwledgeable members here. > >Don > > > When I tried to access the page I got a "forbidden" message. Anybody knows how to proceed? A google search produced a comment saying there was a spam proplem... Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4527	From: herb1013	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: HO Train Literature Page 1

Try this Gerold Herb http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4528	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

herb1013 wrote: Try this Gerold Herb http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html Herb, same result ... -------------------------------------------------- 403 forbidden Server configuration does not allow access to this page. Please go back and try again. ------------------------------------------------- Is it possible this happens as I am resident of Austria, , and the server blocks access to overseas connections??? Do you have access right now?  Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4529	From: Lennard Stewart	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

Lennard Stewart wrote:       I just tried the link and had no problems. Gerold Eckl wrote: herb1013 wrote: Try this Gerold Herb http://www.hoseeker .net/lit. html Herb, same result ... ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -- 403 forbidden Server configuration does not allow access to this page. Please go back and try again. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- - Is it possible this happens as I am resident of Austria, , and the server blocks access to overseas connections? ?? Do you have access right now?  Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4530	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] HO Train Literature Page 1

I just got in.  Do you have your security setting set to high?   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Gerold Eckl Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 3:50 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] HO Train Literature Page 1   herb1013 wrote: Try this Gerold Herb http://www.hoseeker .net/lit. html Herb, same result ... ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -- 403 forbidden Server configuration does not allow access to this page. Please go back and try again. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- - Is it possible this happens as I am resident of Austria , , and the server blocks access to overseas connections? ?? Do you have access right now?  Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4531	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

Not sure what your problem is, it pops right up for me.  It could be a problem with your ISP.   Otherwise you could try the link from the links section on the group page, see if that works   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerold Eckl To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO Train Literature Page 1 herb1013 wrote: Try this Gerold Herb http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4532	From: Jim A. Howell	Date: 11/11/2007
Subject: Brass Model Cleaning Suggestions & Tips Needed

Sunday Evening - November 11th, 2007 Greetings fellow Model Railroading friends from the new, now opened, Lehnis Railroad Museum in Brownwood, Texas. Museum Volunteers are currently busy inspecting, identifying & cataloging the large quanitity scale model collection on the late Martin Lehnis,. Martin's collection contained numerous HO scale brass steam locomotives & rolling stock many of which are valuable & somewhat rare pieces to find since they were acquired over several years. Most of the collection was factory painted & lettered but there are some unpainted pieces too. Also included in the collection are some metal alloy & plastic pieces too which are also in need of cleaning. The most significant problem we are experiencing with the collection is that the pieces are very dirty with accumulated dust, dirt, & grime. Unfortunately they were stored in boxes in less than idea conditions in outside storage buildings. At this time, we are seeking any tips, suggestions, ideas, etc., etc. of ways we can cosmetic clean these collection pieces for museum display only at this time. We have employed use of fine hair brushes and such to dust off the pieces but there still remains the dirt & grime problem. We are very cautious about using any type of cleaners or such in fear of ruining the paint finish and / or lettering on them. After posting this message I will be creating a album in our Photos section which will have pictures highlighting the dirty problems with the collection pieces. I will identify the photo album as "1 Lehnis Collection". Hopefully, for those interested in providing us with any tips, suggestions, ideas, etc., we will greatly appreciate your replied information. Please reply back to me off-line, if so desired, if you do not wish to post your message for entire group viewing. Best Regards, Jim Howell Martin & Frances Lehnis R.R. Museum Volunteer Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society Brownwood, Texas

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4533	From: rayzef	Date: 11/11/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

Hi Group I am having the same problem as Gerold, will not let me in! I am down under in Oz! Ray Z --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "herb1013" <herb1013@...> wrote: > > Try this Gerold > Herb > http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4534	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

rayzef wrote: >Hi Group >I am having the same problem as Gerold, will not let me in! I am down >under in Oz! >Ray Z > > > Strange - Russ ( for those who dont know - he lives in Adelaide, SA ) just told me he has accessed the site a few hours ago! Seems this depends not on the location but on the respective server used. A google search produced the following notice: (scroll down) : http://trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/1261296/PrintPost.aspx I have sent a message to Larry, hope he will receive it and will be able to help. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4535	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

The link is working fine at the moment...... What error message are you getting? Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Nov 11, 2007, at 10:51 PM, rayzef wrote: > Hi Group > I am having the same problem as Gerold, will not let me in! I am down > under in Oz! > Ray Z > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "herb1013" <herb1013@...> wrote: >> >> Try this Gerold >> Herb >> http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4536	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Brass Model Cleaning Suggestions & Tips Neede

Jim, You can use water for much of the dirt.  A little soap and water will not harm the brass or plastic, but will loosen the dirt/mud.  Not soaking in a pail of water, I am suggesting Q tips as a dabber on the mud and then cleaning off with a dry one. A lot of q tips, but you can wrap tissues around them also for a clean surface.  Keeping a fan moving the air will remove any leftover moisture.  If that caboose is not plastic, but wood, you can try the above, but in even smaller areas at a time.  Rub lightly to not wear off the paint.   Relubing and oiling the locos once cleaned, should bring them back.   Good luck   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim A. Howell Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:58 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Brass Model Cleaning Suggestions & Tips Needed   Sunday Evening - November 11th, 2007 Greetings fellow Model Railroading friends from the new, now opened, Lehnis Railroad Museum in Brownwood , Texas . Museum Volunteers are currently busy inspecting, identifying & cataloging the large quanitity scale model collection on the late Martin Lehnis,. Martin's collection contained numerous HO scale brass steam locomotives & rolling stock many of which are valuable & somewhat rare pieces to find since they were acquired over several years. Most of the collection was factory painted & lettered but there are some unpainted pieces too. Also included in the collection are some metal alloy & plastic pieces too which are also in need of cleaning. The most significant problem we are experiencing with the collection is that the pieces are very dirty with accumulated dust, dirt, & grime. Unfortunately they were stored in boxes in less than idea conditions in outside storage buildings. At this time, we are seeking any tips, suggestions, ideas, etc., etc. of ways we can cosmetic clean these collection pieces for museum display only at this time. We have employed use of fine hair brushes and such to dust off the pieces but there still remains the dirt & grime problem. We are very cautious about using any type of cleaners or such in fear of ruining the paint finish and / or lettering on them. After posting this message I will be creating a album in our Photos section which will have pictures highlighting the dirty problems with the collection pieces. I will identify the photo album as "1 Lehnis Collection". Hopefully, for those interested in providing us with any tips, suggestions, ideas, etc., we will greatly appreciate your replied information. Please reply back to me off-line, if so desired, if you do not wish to post your message for entire group viewing. Best Regards, Jim Howell Martin & Frances Lehnis R.R. Museum Volunteer Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society Brownwood , Texas

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4537	From: Maynard Keith Franklin	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Ressurecting Old Stuff

This is my first post to Vintage HO, and I have returned to HO modeling after a 57 year hiatus. I have lots of old stuff, and for some of it, the Zamak castings are dead. I've found several sales of Central Valley Trucks on Ebay, but so far, I've not seen any of the old K-24 Brake Shoe Kits come up for sale. Does anyone have any of these they would be willing to part with? Maynard K Franklin N91472@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4538	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: Ressurecting Old Stuff

Hi, The local hobby shop here (Which is in the process of moving) has some Central valley detail parts, including brakeshoes. Not sure if they're the kind you're looking for. The website address is www.friendshobby.com and their phone number is (847) 336-0790. Ask for Bob, and tell him Steve sent ya. For the record, they carry a lot of new-old stuff, they still have a couple Suydam kits, a Cary lead FT-A body (The last one, that I didn't want), and a lot of other older stuff of such. They ship anywhere in the country I know, and maybe overseas, I think. Hope this info helps. -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Maynard Keith Franklin" <N91472@...> wrote: > > This is my first post to Vintage HO, and I have returned to HO modeling > after a 57 year hiatus. I have lots of old stuff, and for some of it, > the Zamak castings are dead. > > I've found several sales of Central Valley Trucks on Ebay, but so far, > I've not seen any of the old K-24 Brake Shoe Kits come up for sale. > Does anyone have any of these they would be willing to part with? > > Maynard K Franklin > N91472@... >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4539	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: TRAINS

Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.   I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.   I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.   I was alaway interested in World War II.   I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput,Fleischmann and   Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.     America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail.com   I am free-lance.    IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army   Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.   I got 38 locomotives,     freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's      I live in Gladstone,OR.                                              Ray Lorts Sr   I was  USAF 1971- 1976.   I got send to Germany,Nuremberg.   I take the  trip  from Nuremberg ot Salzurg Austrig, I  them to Roco .   militaryrails@yahoogroups.com   modeling-railway-of-war@yahoogroups.com                                                                                                                                                           Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4540	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS

Thank you, veteran!   Your efforts donot go unappreciated!   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...> wrote: Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.   I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.   I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.   I was alaway interested in World War II.   I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput,Fleischmann and   Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.     America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail.com   I am free-lance.    IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army   Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.   I got 38 locomotives,     freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's      I live in Gladstone,OR.                                              Ray Lorts Sr   I was  USAF 1971- 1976.   I got send to Germany,Nuremberg.   I take the  trip  from Nuremberg ot Salzurg Austrig, I  them to Roco .   militaryrails@yahoogroups.com   modeling-railway-of-war@yahoogroups.com                                                                                                                                                           Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4541	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 11/13/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS

Hello Ray-good to hear from you again.  Hope you are doing well.  I remember your posts of pictures of your military RR equipment-nice work!  My son does military RR-but in N scale.  Too small for an old geezer like me!!  Apparently it is more of a challenge to find N military equipment for the flat car loads, but he does it.   Did you watch the PBS series on WW II?   Unfortunately, not much on railroads and their importance during “the Great War”.  But it sounds like you have a great handle on some good stuff thru Historic Rails.  They do a good job.   Take care!  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Lorts Sr Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:43 PM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] TRAINS   Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.   I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.   I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.   I was alaway interested in World War II.   I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput,Fleischmann and   Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.     America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail.com   I am free-lance.    IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army   Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.   I got 38 locomotives,     freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's      I live in Gladstone,OR.                                              Ray Lorts Sr   I was  USAF 1971- 1976.   I got send to Germany,Nuremberg.   I take the  trip  from Nuremberg ot Salzurg Austrig, I  them to Roco .   militaryrails@yahoogroups.com   modeling-railway-of-war@yahoogroups.com                                                                                                                                                             Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4542	From: rayzef	Date: 11/13/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

Hi Mike this is the error; 403 forbidden Server configuration does not allow access to this page. Please go back and try again. I have tried everything, still cannot get in, I will talk to Russ as he is a friend here in Adelaide and see if he does anything different Ray Z --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > The link is working fine at the moment...... > > What error message are you getting? > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Nov 11, 2007, at 10:51 PM, rayzef wrote: > > > Hi Group > > I am having the same problem as Gerold, will not let me in! I am down > > under in Oz! > > Ray Z > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "herb1013" <herb1013@> wrote: > >> > >> Try this Gerold > >> Herb > >> http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4543	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/13/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

That indicates you are reaching the server, but have an page-address error. Recheck the URL you are using, there could be a minor error like a subtle space in the line, or an 'l' instead of a '1'. Try using one of the links from one of the other messages in the thread. That might not have the error you are encountering.... Here's the one that is working for me. I'll list it a couple of ways so that at least one of them is usable for you. http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html [ http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html ] <http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html> Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Nov 13, 2007, at 7:09 PM, rayzef wrote: > Hi Mike this is the error; > 403 forbidden > > Server configuration does not allow access to this page. Please go > back and try again. > > I have tried everything, still cannot get in, I will talk to Russ as > he is a friend here in Adelaide and see if he does anything different > Ray Z > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers wrote: >> >> The link is working fine at the moment...... >> >> What error message are you getting? >> >> On Nov 11, 2007, at 10:51 PM, rayzef wrote: >> >>> Hi Group >>> I am having the same problem as Gerold, will not let me in! I am >>> down >>> under in Oz! >>> Ray Z >>> >>> >>> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "herb1013" <herb1013@> wrote: >>>> >>>> Try this Gerold >>>> Herb >>>> http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4544	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 11/14/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

Mike Bauers wrote: >That indicates you are reaching the server, but have an page-address >error. > >Recheck the URL you are using, there could be a minor error like a >subtle space in the line, or an 'l' instead of a '1'. > >Try using one of the links from one of the other messages in the >thread. That might not have the error you are encountering.... > >Here's the one that is working for me. I'll list it a couple of ways >so that at least one of them is usable for you. > >http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html >[ http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html ] ><http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html> > >Best to ya' >Mike Bauers >Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > Mike, I used links from the files section, from the messages previously posted, and I typed it in manually; and I understand Ray did the same. I think Larrys server is deliberately set to block access to other servers which are suspect to be infiltrated to spammers. I had simiar trouble with email messages not going through to certain servers ( sbcglobal.net comes to my mind) when their filters are set to rigid. I have tried to contact Larry and asked for help, until now I got neither a response nor a "non delivery" message. Next week I may try to access the site from another PC which is connected to a different server - wonder if this might make a difference. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4545	From: rayzef	Date: 11/14/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

Hi Mike Thanks for prompt reply but still no luck with the URL. I even tried Google and used the link it supplied but the same message!! Very frustrating. Not sure what else it could be. Thanks again Ray Z --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > That indicates you are reaching the server, but have an page-address > error. > > Recheck the URL you are using, there could be a minor error like a > subtle space in the line, or an 'l' instead of a '1'. > > Try using one of the links from one of the other messages in the > thread. That might not have the error you are encountering.... > > Here's the one that is working for me. I'll list it a couple of ways > so that at least one of them is usable for you. > > http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html > [ http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html ] > <http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html> > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Nov 13, 2007, at 7:09 PM, rayzef wrote: > > > Hi Mike this is the error; > > 403 forbidden > > > > Server configuration does not allow access to this page. Please go > > back and try again. > > > > I have tried everything, still cannot get in, I will talk to Russ as > > he is a friend here in Adelaide and see if he does anything different > > Ray Z > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers wrote: > >> > >> The link is working fine at the moment...... > >> > >> What error message are you getting? > >> > >> On Nov 11, 2007, at 10:51 PM, rayzef wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Group > >>> I am having the same problem as Gerold, will not let me in! I am > >>> down > >>> under in Oz! > >>> Ray Z > >>> > >>> > >>> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "herb1013" <herb1013@> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Try this Gerold > >>>> Herb > >>>> http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4546	From: Lennard Stewart	Date: 11/14/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

Lennard Stewart wrote:    Could be your ISP is not letting you thru I know for a fact some companys are blocking there customers from veiwing certain sites. rayzef wrote: Hi Mike Thanks for prompt reply but still no luck with the URL. I even tried Google and used the link it supplied but the same message!! Very frustrating. Not sure what else it could be. Thanks again Ray Z --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@ ...> wrote: > > That indicates you are reaching the server, but have an page-address > error. > > Recheck the URL you are using, there could be a minor error like a > subtle space in the line, or an 'l' instead of a '1'. > > Try using one of the links from one of the other messages in the > thread. That might not have the error you are encountering. ... > > Here's the one that is working for me. I'll list it a couple of ways > so that at least one of them is usable for you. > > http://www.hoseeker .net/lit. html > [ http://www.hoseeker .net/lit. html ] > <http://www.hoseeker .net/lit. html> > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Nov 13, 2007, at 7:09 PM, rayzef wrote: > > > Hi Mike this is the error; > > 403 forbidden > > > > Server configuration does not allow access to this page. Please go > > back and try again. > > > > I have tried everything, still cannot get in, I will talk to Russ as > > he is a friend here in Adelaide and see if he does anything different > > Ray Z > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Mike Bauers wrote: > >> > >> The link is working fine at the moment...... > >> > >> What error message are you getting? > >> > >> On Nov 11, 2007, at 10:51 PM, rayzef wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Group > >>> I am having the same problem as Gerold, will not let me in! I am > >>> down > >>> under in Oz! > >>> Ray Z > >>> > >>> > >>> --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "herb1013" <herb1013@> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Try this Gerold > >>>> Herb > >>>> http://www.hoseeker .net/lit. html >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4547	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/15/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

Ah ha! I just looked at the address bar when I had the page open, and there IS no "www" in the address! It is simply http://hoseeker.net/ Dave > > Try this Gerold > Herb > http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4548	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/15/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

BOTH those links work for me, I think it's more of an issue with some servers being blocked. I see that when moderating bouncing members all the time, the member's ISP doesen't like the originating server, so the message gets bounced, regardless of what it is or who it's from. If your particular server happens to get listed with someone like "Blackhole" or "spamcop", good like doing much of anything. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:10 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Train Literature Page 1 > Ah ha! > I just looked at the address bar when I had the page open, and there > IS no "www" in the address! > It is simply http://hoseeker.net/ > Dave >> >> Try this Gerold >> Herb >> http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4549	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 11/15/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1

Attachments : Curmudgion Dave and list: I can download this hoseeker website with either url however, both of these are posted in a larger size than my 'webber' can download, i.e., the right side of the download is cut off by about 25% on my screen. My webtv will download jpg and if not oversized some pdf and gif will also work. Anything larger than that doesn't come up at all. So, fwiw.... that's where I'm at! Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4550	From: Larry	Date: 11/18/2007
Subject: Literature Page @ HOseeker.net

Hello Everyone - Don I am going to try and resolve any problems with accessing the pages within HOseeker.net. This whole mess was caused by me in an over zealous attempt to slow down the porn and other spam flooding the website. The spam that sent me over the edge was the preteen porn. Apparently these undesirable websites have similar IP addresses or share the same servers and hosting companys as the banned website. I apologze for the slow response, but illness in the family, home improvement projects, work, and lack of sleep have kept me from the computer. This is what I need to resolve the access problem. Send an email to this address with the following information. seekingho@... Your Internet Providers Name: such as comcast, sbcglobal, charter, roundrunner Your IP address: Go the link below. I will need your IP Address numbers and host name: example 74.66.202.101 & swbell.net http://ip-address.domaintools.com/ This may take a few attempts and emails to resolve. This is one example of the spammers being lightyears ahead of me in skills. Larry http://www.hoseeker.net/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4551	From: Jack Priller	Date: 11/18/2007
Subject: Available: one old kit

At my local club's Open House this afternoon, saw for sale a Lehigh Models kit for a B&O boxcar. I am sure the floor and roof walk are die cast and I think the ends and doors are as well. Sides are printed card-board. Not sure of the age; no copyright date on the instructions, but the address Allentown, PA) does NOT have a zip code after it. Gentleman that owns it is asking $7.50, but will be out of town from Tuesday morning this week until at least Tuesday of next week. Please contact me OFF-LIST if any one is interested. Jack Priller El Paso, TX

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4552	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/18/2007
Subject: International 2-bay hopper

Anybody got any good identifiers for one of these? I think it's what I picked up with a bunch of stuff Friday. Brass, soldered together, thin, looks like the International "0" gauge stuff I worked on years ago......just half the size. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4553	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 11/22/2007
Subject: nome

Hi :  HAPPY THANKSGIVING   to you all.                          Ray & Jean  lorts Sr Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4554	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 11/22/2007
Subject: Re: nome

Thanks, Ray   Same to you and yours, as well as everyone in the group! Fred in Drearyville(lol) NY Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...> wrote: Hi :  HAPPY THANKSGIVING   to you all.                          Ray & Jean  lorts Sr Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4555	From: Ted Walton	Date: 11/25/2007
Subject: Brass Turnout parts

I have this small box full of HO track parts that I'm not sure just what they are. It looks like they are used to make hand layed turnouts? Most pieces are brass and a few are steel (magnetic anyway). Would appreciate any help in learning just what they are and maybe a reference as to how they are used and put together. I'm quite sure other parts are needed to make them useful. I believe they are from the 50's or 60's ( they came in a Mantua's Shifter Locomotive and tender kit no.209 box). Could be hand made or manufactured? I will try to post photos in the photo section Ted' HO stuff. Ted -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.7/1151 - Release Date: 11/25/2007 4:24 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4556	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/25/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts

Yeah. First block of photos shows solid points assemblies (like we used in 2-rail "0"), and some high-speed movable-frog points. Some partial frogs (maybe specifically for the movable-frog high- speed points), some looking hand-built. You have a "code" on those? Dave > I have this small box full of HO track parts that I'm not sure just > what they are. It looks like they are used to make hand layed > turnouts? Most pieces are brass and a few are steel (magnetic > anyway). Would appreciate any help in learning just what they are and > maybe a reference as to how they are used and put together. I'm quite > sure other parts are needed to make them useful. I believe they are > from the 50's or 60's ( they came in a Mantua's Shifter Locomotive > and tender kit no.209 box). Could be hand made or manufactured? I > will try to post photos in the photo section Ted' HO stuff. > > Ted > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.7/1151 - Release Date: 11/25/2007 4:24 PM >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4557	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/25/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts

The ones with the pivot in the middle are Tru-scale "Hi-Speed" point assemblies. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Walton" <trwalton@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 6:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Brass Turnout parts >I have this small box full of HO track parts that I'm not sure just > what they are. It looks like they are used to make hand layed > turnouts? Most pieces are brass and a few are steel (magnetic > anyway). Would appreciate any help in learning just what they are and > maybe a reference as to how they are used and put together. I'm quite > sure other parts are needed to make them useful. I believe they are > from the 50's or 60's ( they came in a Mantua's Shifter Locomotive > and tender kit no.209 box). Could be hand made or manufactured? I > will try to post photos in the photo section Ted' HO stuff. > > Ted > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.7/1151 - Release Date: > 11/25/2007 4:24 PM > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4558	From: Larry	Date: 11/26/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts

Here is a little info on your turnouts Ted: http://hoseeker.net/truscale/truscalebrochure1952pg03.jpg http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains5.html Larry http://www.hoseeker.net/ --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ted Walton <trwalton@...> wrote: > > I have this small box full of HO track parts that I'm not sure just > what they are. It looks like they are used to make hand layed > turnouts? Most pieces are brass and a few are steel (magnetic > anyway). Would appreciate any help in learning just what they are and > maybe a reference as to how they are used and put together. I'm quite > sure other parts are needed to make them useful. I believe they are > from the 50's or 60's ( they came in a Mantua's Shifter Locomotive > and tender kit no.209 box). Could be hand made or manufactured? I > will try to post photos in the photo section Ted' HO stuff. > > Ted > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.7/1151 - Release Date: 11/25/2007 4:24 PM >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4559	From: Ted Walton	Date: 11/26/2007
Subject: Brass Turnout parts

Thanks Dave and Don for the info. I measure the code to be 100. I never fooled with stuff like this and not sure where to go next - back into the box until I get better educated. Ted At 06:30 AM 11/26/2007, you wrote: >Yeah. >First block of photos shows solid points assemblies (like we used in >2-rail "0"), and some high-speed movable-frog points. Some partial >frogs (maybe specifically for the movable-frog high-speed points), >some looking hand-built. >You have a "code" on those? >Dave > >> I have this small box full of HO track parts that I'm not sure > just what they are. It looks like they are used to make hand layed > turnouts? Most pieces are brass and a few are steel (magnetic > anyway). Would appreciate any help in learning just what they are > and maybe a reference as to how they are used and put together. I'm > quite sure other parts are needed to make them useful. I believe > they are from the 50's or 60's ( they came in a Mantua's Shifter > Locomotive and tender kit no.209 box). Could be hand made or > manufactured? I will try to post photos in the photo section Ted' > HO stuff. Ted<< -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.7/1151 - Release Date: 11/25/2007 4:24 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4560	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/26/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts

You didn't happen to end up with wooden roadbed in that batch of stuff, did you? Dave > Thanks Dave and Don for the info. I measure the code to be 100. I > never fooled with stuff like this and not sure where to go next - > back into the box until I get better educated. > > Ted > > At 06:30 AM 11/26/2007, you wrote: > >Yeah. > >First block of photos shows solid points assemblies (like we used in > >2-rail "0"), and some high-speed movable-frog points. Some partial > >frogs (maybe specifically for the movable-frog high-speed points), > >some looking hand-built. > >You have a "code" on those? > >Dave > > >> I have this small box full of HO track parts that I'm not sure > > just what they are. It looks like they are used to make hand layed > > turnouts? Most pieces are brass and a few are steel (magnetic > > anyway). Would appreciate any help in learning just what they are > > and maybe a reference as to how they are used and put together. I'm > > quite sure other parts are needed to make them useful. I believe > > they are from the 50's or 60's ( they came in a Mantua's Shifter > > Locomotive and tender kit no.209 box). Could be hand made or > > manufactured? I will try to post photos in the photo section Ted' > > HO stuff. Ted<< > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.7/1151 - Release Date: 11/25/2007 4:24 PM >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4561	From: Ted Walton	Date: 11/27/2007
Subject: Brass Turnout parts

Thanks Larry, excellent reference to educate myself. Might try to put a couple of these turnouts together some snowy day. Dave, there were no wooden roadbed in batch of stuff - something I will need to put a turnout together. At 06:47 AM 11/27/2007, you wrote: Posted by: "Larry" <mailto:seekingho@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Brass%20Turnout%20parts>seekingho@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/seekingho>seekingho >Here is a little info on your turnouts Ted: ><http://hoseeker.net/truscale/truscalebrochure1952pg03.jpg>http://hoseeker.net/truscale/truscalebrochure1952pg03.jpg > >http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains5.html >Larry ><http://www.hoseeker.net/>http://www.hoseeker.net/ >--- In ><mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ted >Walton <trwalton@...> wrote: > > > > I have this small box full of HO track parts that I'm not sure just > > what they are. It looks like they are used to make hand layed > > turnouts? Most pieces are brass and a few are steel (magnetic > > anyway). Would appreciate any help in learning just what they are >and > > maybe a reference as to how they are used and put together. I'm >quite > > sure other parts are needed to make them useful. I believe they are > > from the 50's or 60's ( they came in a Mantua's Shifter Locomotive > > and tender kit no.209 box). Could be hand made or manufactured? I > > will try to post photos in the photo section Ted' HO stuff. > > > > Ted -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.7/1151 - Release Date: 11/25/2007 4:24 PM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4562	From: tnc200394	Date: 11/27/2007
Subject: Tru scale roadbed

If anyone is still using Tru scale roadbed. I have some curve sections and some turnouts. Thanks tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4563	From: Frank Weed	Date: 11/27/2007
Subject: Re: Tru scale roadbed

Tom   I use tru-scale track and turnouts. I think they are reliable. I got mine while stationed in Germany, back in the late 60's. Found out that the PX carried the MR mag and ordered out of it. Cheap back then. I a train show in Temple, Tx they were pricey. Are you selling what you have. If so, send me a list of what you have and what your asking price.   Frank Weed busgrouches@... MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub On Nov 27, 2007 11:12 AM, tnc200394 <tnc200394@...> wrote: If anyone is still using Tru scale roadbed. I have some curve sections and some turnouts. Thanks tom -- Frank Weed MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4564	From: Maynard Keith Franklin	Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Old Silver Streak Reefers

This will be my first post to this group. I started HO in 1947 while in junior high school, and became an armchair type when I got out of college. Now, as MacArthur said, I have returned. Fixing up my old rolling stock, and buying some new. I recently got two Silver Streak Reefers, PFE (one marked Ice Service) and they are reefer orange, and the roofs are also reefer orange... seems strange to me. Also, the ice hatches are hinged with the hinges toward the end of the car, rather than toward the middle. Does anybody know or have instructions which color the roof should be painted, and which way the ice hatches are supposed to be hinged? If not, I guess I'll have to find some Silver Streak kits with instructions on ebay. Any help is appreciated. M. K. Franklin N91472@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4565	From: jay matz	Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

Silver Streak is still made by Ye Old Huff N Puff  http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/ Someone on this list mite have instructions The hinges should face in. Jay N91472@... Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4566	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

Jay and list; An added comment.... I have seen Reefers with hinges toward the ends of the car, why, I do not know. Most of these cars had the roof ice bunker covers with the hinges facing inward. Perhaps someone with specifications could come up with owners and car numbers for the odd facing hinges. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4567	From: curmudgeon	Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

Check here: http://www.hoseeker.net/silverstreakinformation/silverstreaksantafere eferdiagram1949.jpg Shows hinges at the end. Dave > > This will be my first post to this group. I started HO in 1947 while > in junior high school, and became an armchair type when I got out of > college. > > Now, as MacArthur said, I have returned. Fixing up my old rolling > stock, and buying some new. > > I recently got two Silver Streak Reefers, PFE (one marked Ice Service) > and they are reefer orange, and the roofs are also reefer orange... > seems strange to me. Also, the ice hatches are hinged with the hinges > toward the end of the car, rather than toward the middle. Does anybody > know or have instructions which color the roof should be painted, and > which way the ice hatches are supposed to be hinged? If not, I guess > I'll have to find some Silver Streak kits with instructions on ebay. > > Any help is appreciated. > > M. K. Franklin > N91472@... >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4568	From: A.W. Wallace	Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

Dear Sir: Santa Fe reefers had hinges at the end; S.P. and U.P. hinges were toward the middle of the car. P.F.E. Ice Reefers generally were painted silver. Most P.F. E. Roofs were either Tuscan, Boxcar red, or Black. Maynard Keith Franklin <N91472@...> wrote: This will be my first post to this group. I started HO in 1947 while in junior high school, and became an armchair type when I got out of college. Now, as MacArthur said, I have returned. Fixing up my old rolling stock, and buying some new. I recently got two Silver Streak Reefers, PFE (one marked Ice Service) and they are reefer orange, and the roofs are also reefer orange... seems strange to me. Also, the ice hatches are hinged with the hinges toward the end of the car, rather than toward the middle. Does anybody know or have instructions which color the roof should be painted, and which way the ice hatches are supposed to be hinged? If not, I guess I'll have to find some Silver Streak kits with instructions on ebay. Any help is appreciated. M. K. Franklin N91472@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4569	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

I think that the Santa Fe used the hinges toward the end of the car. Had a strap brace to fall against when fully open. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: <DLeistikow@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old Silver Streak Reefers > Jay and list; An added comment.... I have seen Reefers with hinges > toward the ends of the car, why, I do not know. Most of these cars had > the roof ice bunker covers with the hinges facing inward. > > Perhaps someone with specifications could come up with owners and car > numbers for the odd facing hinges. > > Don L. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4570	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

Color pictures in the Walthers' catalogs of the 1980's show boxcar red ends and roof. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maynard Keith Franklin" <N91472@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Old Silver Streak Reefers > This will be my first post to this group. I started HO in 1947 while > in junior high school, and became an armchair type when I got out of > college. > > Now, as MacArthur said, I have returned. Fixing up my old rolling > stock, and buying some new. > > I recently got two Silver Streak Reefers, PFE (one marked Ice Service) > and they are reefer orange, and the roofs are also reefer orange... > seems strange to me. Also, the ice hatches are hinged with the hinges > toward the end of the car, rather than toward the middle. Does anybody > know or have instructions which color the roof should be painted, and > which way the ice hatches are supposed to be hinged? If not, I guess > I'll have to find some Silver Streak kits with instructions on ebay. > > Any help is appreciated. > > M. K. Franklin > N91472@... > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4571	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

Welcome to the group!  You have come to the right place-lots of folks with great knowledge regarding old H.O. (and lots of other stuff as well!!).  In addition, there is a very nice web site  www.HOSeeker.net  that has diagrams/instructions for tons of vintage H.O. stuff which is very handy.   Most older (40’ and 50’) prototype PFE ice reefers were an orange slightly on the yellow side of reefer orange-but the hobby uses reefer orange as a convenience-on the sides only.  The ends and roof were boxcar red, and the underside was black.  There were a couple of experimental paint schemes, but are rare.  Also a few aluminum cars built, also rare.  Should you get into the more modern mechanical cars, there were lots of variations, and you need to “shop around” on the internet for the matching car types and paint schemes.  On the modern 50’ and 57’ cars, you can find orange, white, boxcar red, black, silver on various parts of the cars.   I have not seen ice hatches hinged on the end of the car-only towards the middle.  Your Silver Streak cars definitely are reversed from the prototype. Using a new Xacto knife, and working slow, you should be able to separate  the metal hatch castings from the wood roof, and turn them around.   Let us know how it turns out!  Regards,  Jerry Garteiser   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maynard Keith Franklin Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Old Silver Streak Reefers   This will be my first post to this group. I started HO in 1947 while in junior high school, and became an armchair type when I got out of college. Now, as MacArthur said, I have returned. Fixing up my old rolling stock, and buying some new. I recently got two Silver Streak Reefers, PFE (one marked Ice Service) and they are reefer orange, and the roofs are also reefer orange... seems strange to me. Also, the ice hatches are hinged with the hinges toward the end of the car, rather than toward the middle. Does anybody know or have instructions which color the roof should be painted, and which way the ice hatches are supposed to be hinged? If not, I guess I'll have to find some Silver Streak kits with instructions on ebay. Any help is appreciated. M. K. Franklin N91472@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4572	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

Attachments : Glenn and list: Most of us remember when the Refrigerator Cars were stenciled with; 'Ventilated Refrigerator'. This meant that the car could be iced through the Ice Bunkers for Produce that required cooling. There were products and Seasons when cargoes required ventilation, such as Onions and Potatoes. Another form of cooling Produce Cargoes was Top-Icing. Carrots, Celery and Cantaloupes were so transported with Top-Ice. To do this, and to increase car capacity, the ice bunker walls were rolled back to the car ends and the cargo was then loaded and Top Ice was sprayed across the load. Of interest is that in winter months, the Top-Ice would protect the perishable cargo from Winter's Cold, as it was a blanket over cargo. No Heater Service was required. Conversely, Heaters were installed in the Bunkers during Winter Months to protect other Perishable Cargo from freezing. Introduction of the Mechanical Reefers, brought an end to Icing and Heater Services as the Diesel Refrigeration unit could cool or heat the cargo. At Roundy's, we had 440 volt receptacles installed along the Produce Rail Dock. By simply uncoupling the Diesel Unit, we could operate the unit with the house electric connection. This allowed us to run the unit during summer months, if the car was not to be unloaded, promptly. For the old Ice Bunker Reefers, we also had a set of Shieves and Belts, to keep the fans operating while the cars were in the house (we had indoor rail docks). Any questions? Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4573	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

Tony Thompson had a series in RMC on the PFE that developed into a book (which then developed to a series of books) that had just about anything you could want to know about PFE cars. I think that the ends were painted red, the roofs also, but roofs frequently got mopped with an asphalt-type sealer for waterproofing. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 3:24 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old Silver Streak Reefers > Color pictures in the Walthers' catalogs of the 1980's show boxcar red > ends > and roof. > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4574	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

We have one of those heaters, stenciled "AT&SF" here in the Yreka Western museum. Right off Interstate 5 at exit 775. ----- Original Message ----- From: <DLeistikow@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:22 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old Silver Streak Reefers > Glenn and list: Most of us remember when the Refrigerator Cars were > stenciled with; 'Ventilated Refrigerator'. This meant that the car > could be iced through the Ice Bunkers for Produce that required cooling. > There were products and Seasons when cargoes required ventilation, such > as Onions and Potatoes. > > Another form of cooling Produce Cargoes was Top-Icing. Carrots, Celery > and Cantaloupes were so transported with Top-Ice. To do this, and to > increase car capacity, the ice bunker walls were rolled back to the car > ends and the cargo was then loaded and Top Ice was sprayed across the > load. > > Of interest is that in winter months, the Top-Ice would protect the > perishable cargo from Winter's Cold, as it was a blanket over cargo. No > Heater Service was required. Conversely, Heaters were installed in the > Bunkers during Winter Months to protect other Perishable Cargo from > freezing. > > Introduction of the Mechanical Reefers, brought an end to Icing and > Heater Services as the Diesel Refrigeration unit could cool or heat the > cargo. > > At Roundy's, we had 440 volt receptacles installed along the Produce > Rail Dock. By simply uncoupling the Diesel Unit, we could operate the > unit with the house electric connection. This allowed us to run the > unit during summer months, if the car was not to be unloaded, promptly. > > For the old Ice Bunker Reefers, we also had a set of Shieves and Belts, > to keep the fans operating while the cars were in the house (we had > indoor rail docks). > > Any questions? > > Don L. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4575	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers

Very interesting post. I have a LOT of reefers on my railway, vintage and modern models both. Got four Intermountain PFE cars, and a few more PFE cars that are vintage. Now, on those ATSF cars, I have a Globe Santa Fe steelside reefer. Should the hinges for this car be facing the outside (towards the car end) or inside (towards the center side doors)? I need to buy and install new hatches on a couple of my Globe reefers, and I may leave one up on the Santa Fe car, if it is reversed from what the Milwaukee URTX cars and PFE cars are. Would look interesting on a train, at least. -Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, DLeistikow@... wrote: > > Glenn and list: Most of us remember when the Refrigerator Cars were > stenciled with; 'Ventilated Refrigerator'. This meant that the car > could be iced through the Ice Bunkers for Produce that required cooling. > There were products and Seasons when cargoes required ventilation, such > as Onions and Potatoes. > > Another form of cooling Produce Cargoes was Top-Icing. Carrots, Celery > and Cantaloupes were so transported with Top-Ice. To do this, and to > increase car capacity, the ice bunker walls were rolled back to the car > ends and the cargo was then loaded and Top Ice was sprayed across the > load. > > Of interest is that in winter months, the Top-Ice would protect the > perishable cargo from Winter's Cold, as it was a blanket over cargo. No > Heater Service was required. Conversely, Heaters were installed in the > Bunkers during Winter Months to protect other Perishable Cargo from > freezing. > > Introduction of the Mechanical Reefers, brought an end to Icing and > Heater Services as the Diesel Refrigeration unit could cool or heat the > cargo. > > At Roundy's, we had 440 volt receptacles installed along the Produce > Rail Dock. By simply uncoupling the Diesel Unit, we could operate the > unit with the house electric connection. This allowed us to run the > unit during summer months, if the car was not to be unloaded, promptly. > > For the old Ice Bunker Reefers, we also had a set of Shieves and Belts, > to keep the fans operating while the cars were in the house (we had > indoor rail docks). > > Any questions? > > Don L. > > > I think that the Santa Fe used the hinges toward the end of the car. Had a > strap brace to fall against when fully open. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <DLeistikow@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:44 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old Silver Streak Reefers > > > > Jay and list; An added comment.... I have seen Reefers with hinges > > toward the ends of the car, why, I do not know. Most of these cars had > > the roof ice bunker covers with the hinges facing inward. > > > > Perhaps someone with specifications could come up with owners and car > > numbers for the odd facing hinges. > > > > Don L. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4576	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/3/2007
Subject: What I've been doing lately.

Added a couple more cars to the roster, a Revell hopper, ANOTHER Varney hopper, and a new friend sent me a partially assembled Pickard covered hopper. (I'm putting together Varney celluloid streamliner kits for him, and he sends me varney card heavyweight passenger sides & kits in exchange) Photos under "new photos" from the group home page, or in my albums (zDon Dellmann....) in the Pickard, Varney and Revell albums. A couple more Varney Virgnian hoppers on the workbench waiting for new numbers, and another Revell NW-2 shell, for which I have a protopower west drive coming, also a Revell F-7 shell waiting for a new drive and a Varney card 14 section pullman that should be done in a day or so. (Will have three more pullmans and at least two more 60' coaches as soon as my friend Mike gets me the resin copies of the old Walthers end castings he's making for me. I have sides, Northeastern roof and floor, makes a credible copy). Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4577	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 12/3/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately.

Looks like you've been keeping yourself busy Don. I've been distracted from Vintage HO working on an N scale layout, but still have quite a few vintage projects in the shop waiting to be worked on.  I got some parts from Dan at Yardbird Classic Trains to finish a couple of John English locos, I just need to get them into the paint shop.  I have an Aristo Craft 0-8-0 I'm still working on also.  I'll post some photos when I get back to working on them.   Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Added a couple more cars to the roster, a Revell hopper, ANOTHER Varney hopper, and a new friend sent me a partially assembled Pickard covered hopper. (I'm putting together Varney celluloid streamliner kits for him, and he sends me varney card heavyweight passenger sides & kits in exchange) Photos under "new photos" from the group home page, or in my albums (zDon Dellmann.... ) in the Pickard, Varney and Revell albums. A couple more Varney Virgnian hoppers on the workbench waiting for new numbers, and another Revell NW-2 shell, for which I have a protopower west drive coming, also a Revell F-7 shell waiting for a new drive and a Varney card 14 section pullman that should be done in a day or so. (Will have three more pullmans and at least two more 60' coaches as soon as my friend Mike gets me the resin copies of the old Walthers end castings he's making for me. I have sides, Northeastern roof and floor, makes a credible copy). Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Don Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4578	From: Walter J. Bayer II	Date: 12/3/2007
Subject: Walthers NYC 20th Century Ltd. heavyweight passenger cars-8 kits

If anyone is interested in these vintage kits, I have just listed them on e-bay. No reserve. RARE WALTHERS NYC 20TH CENTURY HVY WGT KITS-8 - 260189872931 I bought them direct from Walthers in 1978.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4579	From: Walter J. Bayer II	Date: 12/4/2007
Subject: Blue Line PRR kits

Hello all, I have listed a couple of Blue Line kits on ebay that some of you might be in interested in looking at. They are: PRR full-length mail-baggage, listing # 260189914355 PRR full-length Pullman, listing # 260189915681 Thank you, Walter Bayer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4580	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: New Photo Album

Hi all, I just submitted a new photo album with photos of two of my vintage locomotives. The first photo is of a Mantua 8-Ball brass boilered 2-6-0, vintage 1946, which has been rebuilt to today's operating standards. It has a Sagami motor driving through a KTM idler gearbox. The drivers are DJH RP-25 nickle silver and the tender came from a PFM 2-6-2. I detailed it with several Cal Scale castings and scratch built the pilot. It is also equipped with a Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder and speaker. The second photo is of a streamlined Varney Pacific which was pretty much original at the time of the photo except for the PFM Western Pacific tender. It is currently going under a rebuild with can motor, idler gearbox, RP-25 drivers, and Soundtraxx. Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4581	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: Re: New Photo Album

I forgot to mention that the name of my album is "Cinder Valley". Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I just submitted a new photo album with photos of two of my vintage > locomotives. > > The first photo is of a Mantua 8-Ball brass boilered 2-6-0, vintage > 1946, which has been rebuilt to today's operating standards. It has a > Sagami motor driving through a KTM idler gearbox. The drivers are DJH > RP-25 nickle silver and the tender came from a PFM 2-6-2. I detailed > it with several Cal Scale castings and scratch built the pilot. > > It is also equipped with a Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder and speaker. > > The second photo is of a streamlined Varney Pacific which was pretty > much original at the time of the photo except for the PFM Western > Pacific tender. It is currently going under a rebuild with can motor, > idler gearbox, RP-25 drivers, and Soundtraxx. > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4582	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: Another 'Whodunit' Question

Hi, all, I bought a bunch of old rolling stock on eBay recently and got them in today. below are three auctions that I won, a reefer and two hoppers: 190175989981 190175991738 190176006659 The reefer (I got four of them- Berkshire Ham, Carnation Milk, Schiltz Beer, and Fruit Growers Express), all seem to be made out of solid wood blocks with cardboard litho overlays. The ladders on them look like they were soldered together rung by rung. There is an end sill at the bottom of the car ends made out of blackened channel metal. The hobby shop owner doesn't know who made these reefers. He thinks they may be very early Mantua. To that effect, I saw on hoseeker.net, a Berkshire Ham reefer that looks a bit like mine in the 1941 Mantua Handbook. But then, it's a nice car so I'd imagine a few people did that one. The hoppers are more metal than wood. They have metal sides nailed to a wood deck. Wood bays on both. Looks like the ribs had to be added on, and both have different rib spacing. Also got two Strombecker cabooses (cabeese?), that had been decaled for the B&O, so I know what those are, as do I with the City of San Francisco coaches I got. Already got two Strombecker City of Fricso coaches, so I got a train of five (Though two cars duplicate their names). I'll put those behind a set of Cary units! Thanks for any info on my mystery cars -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4583	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: Re: Another 'Whodunit' Question

The auction listing says Strombecker, which I would believe for the reefer, this is the same construction used in their famous "Rocket" TA and train. The Mantua reefers I have are card sides laminated to sheet metal (tinplate or brass, I understand over the years bothc were used.) I'm not positive on the hoppers, but they could be too. Mantua's hopper was advertised as brass, I've never actually seen one. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Another 'Whodunit' Question > Hi, all, > > I bought a bunch of old rolling stock on eBay recently and got them in > today. below are three auctions that I won, a reefer and two hoppers: > > 190175989981 > 190175991738 > 190176006659 > > The reefer (I got four of them- Berkshire Ham, Carnation Milk, Schiltz > Beer, and Fruit Growers Express), all seem to be made out of solid > wood blocks with cardboard litho overlays. The ladders on them look > like they were soldered together rung by rung. There is an end sill at > the bottom of the car ends made out of blackened channel metal. > > The hobby shop owner doesn't know who made these reefers. He thinks > they may be very early Mantua. To that effect, I saw on hoseeker.net, > a Berkshire Ham reefer that looks a bit like mine in the 1941 Mantua > Handbook. But then, it's a nice car so I'd imagine a few people did > that one. > > The hoppers are more metal than wood. They have metal sides nailed to > a wood deck. Wood bays on both. Looks like the ribs had to be added > on, and both have different rib spacing. > > Also got two Strombecker cabooses (cabeese?), that had been decaled > for the B&O, so I know what those are, as do I with the City of San > Francisco coaches I got. Already got two Strombecker City of Fricso > coaches, so I got a train of five (Though two cars duplicate their > names). I'll put those behind a set of Cary units! > > Thanks for any info on my mystery cars > > -Steve > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4584	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 12/6/2007
Subject: Re: Another 'Whodunit' Question

Attachments : I  found these three Mantua hoppers in  my accumilation, the sides appear to be brass and are not attracted to a magnet.   Roger Aultman       ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Another 'Whodunit' Question The auction listing says Strombecker, which I would believe for the reefer, this is the same construction used in their famous "Rocket" TA and train. The Mantua reefers I have are card sides laminated to sheet metal (tinplate or brass, I understand over the years bothc were used.) I'm not positive on the hoppers, but they could be too. Mantua's hopper was advertised as brass, I've never actually seen one. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebui ld@yahoo. com> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Another 'Whodunit' Question > Hi, all, > > I bought a bunch of old rolling stock on eBay recently and got them in > today. below are three auctions that I won, a reefer and two hoppers: > > 190175989981 > 190175991738 > 190176006659 > > The reefer (I got four of them- Berkshire Ham, Carnation Milk, Schiltz > Beer, and Fruit Growers Express), all seem to be made out of solid > wood blocks with cardboard litho overlays. The ladders on them look > like they were soldered together rung by rung. There is an end sill at > the bottom of the car ends made out of blackened channel metal. > > The hobby shop owner doesn't know who made these reefers. He thinks > they may be very early Mantua. To that effect, I saw on hoseeker.net, > a Berkshire Ham reefer that looks a bit like mine in the 1941 Mantua > Handbook. But then, it's a nice car so I'd imagine a few people did > that one. > > The hoppers are more metal than wood. They have metal sides nailed to > a wood deck. Wood bays on both. Looks like the ribs had to be added > on, and both have different rib spacing. > > Also got two Strombecker cabooses (cabeese?), that had been decaled > for the B&O, so I know what those are, as do I with the City of San > Francisco coaches I got. Already got two Strombecker City of Fricso > coaches, so I got a train of five (Though two cars duplicate their > names). I'll put those behind a set of Cary units! > > Thanks for any info on my mystery cars > > -Steve > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4585	From: tnc200394	Date: 12/7/2007
Subject: Hobbytown of Boston powered chassis's

#77408f Universal Geep powered chassis #97408f-1 universal f unit powered chassis thanks tom tnc200394@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4586	From: Garry Spear	Date: 12/7/2007
Subject: 50s and early 60s HO for Sale

I have a series of older HO for Sale. Mantua Little 6 Make Offer Not Tested Manuta Sinclair Tank Metal 20.00 MDC Ore Cars C&NW + MILW 0.00 MDC Metal Katy Stock 10.00 MDC Metal NYC Stock 10.00 Athearn Metal ATSF 50' Box 10.00 Athearn Metal BO Time Saver 40' Box 10.00 Ulrick Gon CG3 RI Comp Gon 7.50 Ulrick Gon GS6 SOO Line 7.50 Ulrick Hopper MILW OH7 7.50 Ambroid 1/5000 AT&T Car 10.00 Ambroid 1/5000 Pickle Car 10.00 Silver Streak Pluto Water 15.00 Athearn Crystal Car Tank 1.00 Main Line Quaker Oats 10.00 Thomas Sunoco DX Tank 15.00 Thomas APCO Tank 15.00 The Prices DO NOT include shipping.  Shipping will be $5.00 Priority Mail for the first car and .50 for each additional car.  The shipping is about as low as I can go. Make offers if you want anything, I want to sell, but be reasonable. First come , First choice. I will test the little six and report on is working status.  Shipping for the little six will be calculated with the buyers zip code. I'm working on the pictures, and here is a start. http://home.att.net/~twotwotrain/Kpic.html All unsold items will be eBay bound. Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4587	From: Don Van Der Horn	Date: 12/7/2007
Subject: Re: 50s and early 60s HO for Sale

Gary - I'm interested in some of your cars but this should be done off line as far as the actual purchase. My e-mail address is donvdh@.... Please write directly or send me your direct e-mail and I will contact you. Don V.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4588	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: What I did this week

Attachments : Finished 2 more passenger cars, The gray Varney celluloid Pullman for another member (PING to Walter, it will be in the mail Monday) and a 14 section Varney cardstock pullman he sent me. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4589	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Yello Milwaukee Coaches

Hi again all, After obtaining some Strombecker Union Pacific City of San Francisco coaches, I was wondering: The Milwaukee Road connected with the UP at Omaha, and carried some of its trains into Chicago, even painting some Milwaukee coaches and locomotives to match UP stock. I have some Walthers vintage metal and wood coach kits (Similar in build to American Beauty models, but scale length), that are in Milwaukee yellow colors. Would it be appropriate, historical wise to run these yellowbird coaches with the Strombecker cars. All I have is an observation car and some coaches and sleepers from Strombecker- I have a diner and baggage and more coaches by Walthers, between them I could have a full service train. Anyone know anything? Thanks for any help, Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4590	From: boomer44	Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Vintage cars.

Hi Don, These cars look pretty good. I have a built up PRR P40 Walther's tinside I may have to revisit. Basic runner and not much detail but good possibilities. boomer44...boomer14624... Gordon Spalty

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4591	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches

----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Yello Milwaukee Coaches > Hi again all, > > After obtaining some Strombecker Union Pacific City of San Francisco > coaches, I was wondering: The Milwaukee Road connected with the UP at > Omaha, and carried some of its trains into Chicago, even painting some > Milwaukee coaches and locomotives to match UP stock. I have some > Walthers vintage metal and wood coach kits (Similar in build to > American Beauty models, but scale length), that are in Milwaukee > yellow colors. Would it be appropriate, historical wise to run these > yellowbird coaches with the Strombecker cars. All I have is an > observation car and some coaches and sleepers from Strombecker- I have > a diner and baggage and more coaches by Walthers, between them I could > have a full service train. > > Anyone know anything? > > Thanks for any help, > Steve The Milwaukee Road contracted with UP starting around 1956 (prior to that the C&NW carried UP trains into Chicago). By this time, the only heavyweight cars I remember seeing still running on the "Road" were some baggage and mail express cars, which did get yellow & gray (by the end of the decade just about ALL Milwaukee Road passenger cars were yellow and gray). Some heavyweights still may have seen service on the Iowa division (route of the UP trains), but I don't ever recall seeing any on the Chicago-Twin Cities mainline (about 50 FEET from the house I grew up in, eastbound Hiawathas were hitting the brakes to SLOW DOWN for the "slow order" {NINETY MPH} curve through the depot in Pewaukee, and westbound trains were putting it back in 8th notch to dig in for the gentle upgrade towards Hartland. People wonder why I grew up liking trains.) OTOH, it's YOUR railroad, run any combination of cars you want. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4592	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage cars.

----- Original Message ----- From: "boomer44" <boomer44@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage cars. > Hi Don, > > These cars look pretty good. I have a built up PRR P40 Walther's > tinside I may have to revisit. Basic runner and not much detail but good > possibilities. > > boomer44...boomer14624... Gordon Spalty Absolutely. I have to chuckle a bit at the new generation of modellers, they think you HAVE to spend $40 - $ 50 on the latest plastic state of the art car from China, then complain to the various lists because the d@*M things won't stay on the track. All that wonderful plastic detail is pretty too, but once the cars get on the layout and see some real service, half of it gets broken off, and the rest you can't see as the train goes by anyway! Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4593	From: Jim Snyder	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Every once in a while...

Every once in a while... (look at 'Old HO, Vol. II"... last photo)I go looking on eBay for something interesting. I have beenj tinkering with the idea of an AT&SF Okie Branch. I have some AMB Santa Fe kits and a couple MDC engine kits- a 4-4-2 and a 2-6-2- and then I found The Atlantic. An MDC AT&SF 4-4-2, obviously nicely-built- starting at $75.00. "High", I thought. But, I bid on it. Three days later, I was still the only one willing to take a shot- and I won it. It arrived a week later. When I took it out of the box, I nearly fainted! This thing had $100 worth of brass castings. The injectors were all piped up, the bell cords were soldered in place. Paint was beautiful! In short, this could win a contest!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4594	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Every once in a while...

Jim-good for you!!  Yep, sometimes, when the moons align, you can get lucky on eBay.  It’ll be a good jump start-and encouragement-for your AT&SF railroad.  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Snyder Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 5:24 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Every once in a while...   Every once in a while... (look at 'Old HO, Vol. II"... last photo)I go looking on eBay for something interesting. I have beenj tinkering with the idea of an AT&SF Okie Branch. I have some AMB Santa Fe kits and a couple MDC engine kits- a 4-4-2 and a 2-6-2- and then I found The Atlantic. An MDC AT&SF 4-4-2, obviously nicely-built- starting at $75.00. "High", I thought. But, I bid on it. Three days later, I was still the only one willing to take a shot- and I won it. It arrived a week later. When I took it out of the box, I nearly fainted! This thing had $100 worth of brass castings. The injectors were all piped up, the bell cords were soldered in place. Paint was beautiful! In short, this could win a contest!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4595	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches

The Strombecker cars were all scaled 1/8"/scale foot, while the Walthers cars after about 1950 were 3.5 mm/scale foot- a seemingly small, but actually a significant difference visually. The Strombecker cars do not mix well. However, the prewar Walthers paper-sides and postwar metal sides passenger cars (6xxx series??) were smaller, and were most probably 1/8"/foot scale (a very common convenience in early HO, encouraged by plans and drawings in early MRs, Model Railroac Cyclopedias, and Model Craftsman scaled only at 1/8"). The expressed opinion that only some heavyweight head end cars were actually repainted by the Milwaukee into the UP colors is correct. It is possible that a single modernized heavyweight coach was also so painted, but that supposition is iffy. By 1955, virtually all other Milwaukee heavyweight cars were either already retired, or running out their last miles still in a dog's breakfast variety of various survival color schemes including admixtures of orange, maroon, gray, black, and brown- but not yellow. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4596	From: railwaymodeler	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches

@ Denny, I must have the early Walthers coaches, as they are the same dimensions as the Strombecker coaches, another reason I was wanting to run them together. Or maybe they aren't Walthers, I only have another person's educated guess as far as that goes. These 'Walthers' coaches have very heavy gauge stamped metal sides, and wooden roofs and decks. Oh, and this isn't a heavyweight train at all- it's all streamlined coaches. I'd imagine there's a prototype for the yellow coaches, as I've seen Milwaukee yellow reefers and E series diesels at the Illinois Railway Museum. Thanks, Steve --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > The Strombecker cars were all scaled 1/8"/scale foot, while the > Walthers cars after about 1950 were 3.5 mm/scale foot- a seemingly > small, but actually a significant difference visually. The > Strombecker cars do not mix well. > > However, the prewar Walthers paper-sides and postwar metal sides > passenger cars (6xxx series??) were smaller, and were most probably > 1/8"/foot scale (a very common convenience in early HO, encouraged by > plans and drawings in early MRs, Model Railroac Cyclopedias, and > Model Craftsman scaled only at 1/8"). > > The expressed opinion that only some heavyweight head end cars were > actually repainted by the Milwaukee into the UP colors is correct. It > is possible that a single modernized heavyweight coach was also so > painted, but that supposition is iffy. > > By 1955, virtually all other Milwaukee heavyweight cars were either > already retired, or running out their last miles still in a dog's > breakfast variety of various survival color schemes including > admixtures of orange, maroon, gray, black, and brown- but not yellow. > > Denny > -- > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4597	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches

----- Original Message ----- From: "railwaymodeler" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches >@ Denny, > > I must have the early Walthers coaches, as they are the same > dimensions as the Strombecker coaches, another reason I was wanting to > run them together. Or maybe they aren't Walthers, I only have another > person's educated guess as far as that goes. These 'Walthers' coaches > have very heavy gauge stamped metal sides, and wooden roofs and decks. > > Oh, and this isn't a heavyweight train at all- it's all streamlined > coaches. I'd imagine there's a prototype for the yellow coaches, as > I've seen Milwaukee yellow reefers and E series diesels at the > Illinois Railway Museum. > > Thanks, > Steve I personally have never seen Walthers streamlined HO cars, although they MAY have existed. I do know they did Milwaukee road prototype cars in O cale. )Milwaukee prototypes are distinctive, earlier cars had ribs like the shops built Boxcars, available from MDC and other later smooth side cars had distinctive "porthole" and rounded windows at the ends. Most Milwaukee streamlined passenger cars were actually built in the Milwaukee Road shops, although many of the "Olympian" sleepers were built by Pullman=Standard, but to Milwaukee road designs. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4598	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches

Hello, since these are streamlined cars we are talking about.  Could they be J C Silver sides, or some name close to this?  I do not have any, but remember that they would have the metal sides with the wood top and bottom. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   : [vintageHO] Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches >@ Denny, > > I must have the early Walthers coaches, as they are the same > dimensions as the Strombecker coaches, another reason I was wanting to > run them together. Or maybe they aren't Walthers, I only have another > person's educated guess as far as that goes. These 'Walthers' coaches > have very heavy gauge stamped metal sides, and wooden roofs and decks. > > Oh, and this isn't a heavyweight train at all- it's all streamlined > coaches. I'd imagine there's a prototype for the yellow coaches, as > I've seen Milwaukee yellow reefers and E series diesels at the > Illinois w:st="on">Railway Museum . > > Thanks, > Steve I personally have never seen Walthers streamlined HO cars, although they MAY have existed. I do know they did Milwaukee road prototype cars in O cale. )Milwaukee prototypes are distinctive, earlier cars had ribs like the shops built Boxcars, available from MDC and other later smooth side cars had distinctive "porthole" and rounded windows at the ends. Most Milwaukee streamlined passenger cars were actually built in the Milwaukee Road shops, although many of the "Olympian" sleepers were built by Pullman =Standard, but to Milwaukee road designs. Don _,___

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4599	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 12/10/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches

Walthers never did not produce any streamlined cars with metal sides in HO, although they did so in O gauge (including all the streamlined trains displayed at the 1939 New York World's Fair). The very first streamlined HO cars that they produced were the first of the current line of plastic China-produced cars. The earliest Walthers HO cars from c. 1938 had wood roofs, ends, floors and embossed Bristol board sides. I do not think these lasted very long before the sides were replaced with sides made from stamped tinned sheet metal characterized by a long flange turned under at the bottom that fit against the bottom of the floor (instead of the side sheet actually dropping below the bottom of the floor as in the prototype). There was NO rivet detailing. Car ends were now cast lead alloy. The roof was relatively low and the clearstory had no beading milled along the edges. These cars were last produced about 1948-50 and are thought to have been designed to the 1/8"/foot scale standard. The cars described just above were replaced by a completely new (and incompatible) series of much more accurate 3.5mm/ft. scale in about 1950 (or so) that was characterized by: 1) New milled roof that was higher and more prototypical in contour and outline, and had the beading milled into the margins of the clearstory. 2) New more detailed cast metal ends. 3) New stamped metal sides with full rivet detail, and no flange at the bottom. The latter is the series of passenger car craft kits that lasted until the end (although the wood roof was replaced by a pretty poor plastic molded roof in the last years). Parts from these two series of metal sided kits could be intermixed only with difficulty. None of these kits, save some head end cars, would have been cars suitable for reproducing Milwaukee UP-yellow-painted rolling stock, whether of 1/8" or 3.5mm scale. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4600	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 12/11/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches

Please note the inadvertent double negative in the first sentence of my last post :-[ . Walthers did *not* produce any HO streamlined/light weight craft kits, either with paper, or with steel sides. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4601	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/11/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches

----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:01 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches > Walthers never did not produce any streamlined cars with metal sides > in HO, although they did so in O gauge (including all the streamlined > trains displayed at the 1939 New York World's Fair). The very first > streamlined HO cars that they produced were the first of the current > line of plastic China-produced cars. > > The earliest Walthers HO cars from c. 1938 had wood roofs, ends, > floors and embossed Bristol board sides. > > I do not think these lasted very long before the sides were replaced > with sides made from stamped tinned sheet metal characterized by a > long flange turned under at the bottom that fit against the bottom of > the floor (instead of the side sheet actually dropping below the > bottom of the floor as in the prototype). There was NO rivet > detailing. Car ends were now cast lead alloy. The roof was > relatively low and the clearstory had no beading milled along the > edges. These cars were last produced about 1948-50 and are thought > to have been designed to the 1/8"/foot scale standard. > > The cars described just above were replaced by a completely new (and > incompatible) series of much more accurate 3.5mm/ft. scale in about > 1950 (or so) that was characterized by: 1) New milled roof that was > higher and more prototypical in contour and outline, and had the > beading milled into the margins of the clearstory. 2) New more > detailed cast metal ends. 3) New stamped metal sides with full rivet > detail, and no flange at the bottom. > > > The latter is the series of passenger car craft kits that lasted > until the end (although the wood roof was replaced by a pretty poor > plastic molded roof in the last years). > > Parts from these two series of metal sided kits could be intermixed > only with difficulty. > > None of these kits, save some head end cars, would have been cars > suitable for reproducing Milwaukee UP-yellow-painted rolling stock, > whether of 1/8" or 3.5mm scale. > > Denny The new Walthers cars were actually introduced in the late 1950's, Walthers called them their "Silver Anniversary" cars in honor of their 25th year in 1959. As you say, the biggest difference was the straight sides on the 7800 series rather than the folded under sides on the 7600 series., also they changed the roof stock to make them taller. In their catalogs of the time they advertised that you could order the new cars with the older roofs to match your existing stock by adding an "L" to the 7800 series number. They claimed that the other parts (namely the ends) were interchangeable. (Source: 1960 Walthers catalog) There may have been an older series of metal cars BEFORE the 7600's that were to the smaller scale, but I'm not aware of them. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY Then in the mid 70's they came out with the plastic clerestory roof, these were the 6600 series.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4602	From: sswcharlie	Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack

Anyone seen one of these for sale lately ? I would like to see a photo of the model also. Thks Charlie

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4603	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack

Attachments : This is a picture of one I recently assembled, they run fairly well if a bit  noisy.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: sswcharlie To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack Anyone seen one of these for sale lately ? I would like to see a photo of the model also. Thks Charlie

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4604	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack

Dear Roger,   Did Walthers say what railroad(s) this "shuttlejack" may have been prototypical for? Such was the practice, at least in the 60's fror Walthers, to state what roads their old wood and metal kits were applicable to be lettered for either on the box label or inside on the plans.   Is the drive Suydam (now Alpine)? Spring belt, I mean.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: This is a picture of one I recently assembled, they run fairly well if a bit  noisy.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: sswcharlie To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack Anyone seen one of these for sale lately ? I would like to see a photo of the model also. Thks Charlie Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4605	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack

Loosely based on Santa Fe M-190?? ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Aultman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack This is a picture of one I recently assembled, they run fairly well if a bit  noisy.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: sswcharlie To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack Anyone seen one of these for sale lately ? I would like to see a photo of the model also. Thks Charlie

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4606	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack

It seems to be based on Santa Fe M-190, which is at the Calif. State RR Museum at Sacramento.    Denny--you should be the expert on that--it is there?   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack Dear Roger,   Did Walthers say what railroad(s) this "shuttlejack" may have been prototypical for? Such was the practice, at least in the 60's fror Walthers, to state what roads their old wood and metal kits were applicable to be lettered for either on the box label or inside on the plans.   Is the drive Suydam (now Alpine)? Spring belt, I mean.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: This is a picture of one I recently assembled, they run fairly well if a bit  noisy.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: sswcharlie To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack Anyone seen one of these for sale lately ? I would like to see a photo of the model also. Thks Charlie Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4607	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)

List,   Glad to see M-190 is still around. In 1978 the Rocky Mountain Region of the NMRA held its annual convention in Albuequerque, New Mexico, and a side trip then was to the AT&SF Museum then established and functioning at the roundhouse there. I was privileged (among others also) to see M-190 exit the roundhouse under its own power and do a spin on the turntable. Compared with the photos of other "doodlebugs", M-190 was a monster, huge. Somehow, I imagine the beauty went west on its home tracks and under its own power sometime later...but others may know that to be true or not.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: It seems to be based on Santa Fe M-190, which is at the Calif. State RR Museum at Sacramento.    Denny--you should be the expert on that--it is there?   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack Dear Roger,   Did Walthers say what railroad(s) this "shuttlejack" may have been prototypical for? Such was the practice, at least in the 60's fror Walthers, to state what roads their old wood and metal kits were applicable to be lettered for either on the box label or inside on the plans.   Is the drive Suydam (now Alpine)? Spring belt, I mean.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: This is a picture of one I recently assembled, they run fairly well if a bit  noisy.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: sswcharlie To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack Anyone seen one of these for sale lately ? I would like to see a photo of the model also. Thks Charlie Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4608	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190

John Barlow wrote: List,   Glad to see M-190 is still around. In 1978 the Rocky Mountain Region of the NMRA held its annual convention in Albuequerque, New Mexico, and a side trip then was to the AT&SF Museum then established and functioning at the roundhouse there. I was privileged (among others also) to see M-190 exit the roundhouse under its own power and do a spin on the turntable. Compared with the photos of other "doodlebugs", M-190 was a monster, huge. Somehow, I imagine the beauty went west on its home tracks and under its own power sometime later...but others may know that to be true or not.   John, there are pictures showing her disassembled on flatcars ... may send off list as I consider this off topic. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4609	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)

Attachments : Hello John Attached is a picture of the motor it is a gear drive that runs OK when the wheels are clean. The bottom plate fell in two pieces when I was cleaning it but the power truck still works. I could not find a add or catalog description, going on memory a risky thing it seems they advertised it as a branchline loco. I thought that Model Trains had a review for a project layout but could not find it in the issues I have. I waited awhile for one to come up on eBay, then shortly after another one was available without a power truck, but fortunately i had a spare. So one day I may have doubleheaded Shuttle Jacks. The kits are not difficult to assemble but take a bit of time. Roger Dear Roger, Did Walthers say what railroad(s) this "shuttlejack" may have been prototypical for? Such was the practice, at least in the 60's fror Walthers, to state what roads their old wood and metal kits were applicable to be lettered for either on the box label or inside on the plans. Is the drive Suydam (now Alpine)? Spring belt, I mean. John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4610	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)

You mention "Suydam, now Alpine"--I know that Alpine is the successor on the structure kits, but on the brass traction?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack) > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4611	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack

I have a Hallmark brass model of the AT&SF M-190 and a Shuttlejack -- the Shuttle Jack is a bit shorter in length and about 1/8 inch lower in overall height. I have heard it said that it was made to 1/8-inch to the foot scale but in examining the doors, they are the same height as the doors on the Hallmark M-190. I also have a Walthers Gas Electric kit (unbilt) which has a body stamping the same height as the Shuttle Jack. Just FYI. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > It seems to be based on Santa Fe M-190, which is at the Calif. State RR Museum at Sacramento. Denny--you should be the expert on that--it is there? gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Barlow > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:39 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack > > > Dear Roger, > > Did Walthers say what railroad(s) this "shuttlejack" may have been prototypical for? Such was the practice, at least in the 60's fror Walthers, to state what roads their old wood and metal kits were applicable to be lettered for either on the box label or inside on the plans. > > Is the drive Suydam (now Alpine)? Spring belt, I mean. > > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) > > Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote: > This is a picture of one I recently assembled, they run fairly well if a bit noisy. Roger Aultman > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sswcharlie > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 2:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack > > > Anyone seen one of these for sale lately ? > > I would like to see a photo of the model also. > > Thks > Charlie > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4612	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)

The ATSF M-190 was for many years in the collections of the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento. It arrived in Sacramento dead-in-train. In 2006, Gov. Richardson of New Mexico requested of the Governator of California that the M-190 be gifted to NM for its historic preservation activities. Inasmuch as the M-190 never was assigned to any known California operations (but did run for years in NM), and the CSRM had no plans for restoration, the museum de-accessioned the M-190 to New Mexico state ownership; and some months ago it was dis-articulated, loaded on two flat cars by CSRM shops personnel, and shipped off. The last I heard from NM (also some months ago), they were still on the flat cars. I chaired the CSRM committee that recommended the de-accession, and signed the documentation. BTW, the Walthers Shuttle Jack was also of the same general 1/8" scale and general construction as the 7600 series and earlier cars. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4613	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 12/14/2007
Subject: Suydam - Alpine

Glenn476 wrote: > You mention "Suydam, now Alpine"--I know that Alpine is the successor on the > structure kits, but on the brass traction?? > At least they sell ( or have sold some years ago) some brass detail parts; compressor, pilots ... Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4614	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/14/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine

Dear Gerold,   Alpine has a website of its own, and they are structures...but things like the spring belt drive replacements for their old brass are still available from Alpine. For that I am grateful. Sorry, I saw no renewed importing of brass models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> wrote: Glenn476 wrote: > You mention "Suydam, now Alpine"--I know that Alpine is the successor on the > structure kits, but on the brass traction?? > At least they sell ( or have sold some years ago) some brass detail parts; compressor, pilots ... Gerold Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4615	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine

John Barlow wrote: Dear Gerold,   Alpine has a website of its own, and they are structures...but things like the spring belt drive replacements for their old brass are still available from Alpine. For that I am grateful. Sorry, I saw no renewed importing of brass models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) I think its not the time now to import Interurban  models... the sole remaining importer seems to have problems to sell his runs and even had to cancel certain models due to lack of interest, although the prices seem to be reasonable in view of the high quality. Strange that it is possible to sell steamers for $2000 and complete trains ( without motive power) for $4000 but there are not enough prospective buyers for a $500 trolley. I have bought both structures and parts from Alpine, wonder if they make much money or if this is a labor of love? Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4616	From: cnj999	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> wrote: > I could not find a add or > catalog description, going on memory a risky thing it seems they advertised > it as a branchline loco. I thought that Model Trains had a review for a > project layout but could not find it in the issues I have. I waited awhile > for one to come up on eBay, then shortly after > another one was available without a power truck, but fortunately i had a > spare. So one day I may have doubleheaded Shuttle Jacks. The kits are not > difficult to assemble but take a bit of time. > Roger > The blurb in the period Walthers' ads and catalog indicated the intent of this model was a one car train that could be operated on the most exteme tight radius, or spaghetti-bowl, layouts of the day. The M-190 is cited as the model's inspiration in the ads. However, I seem to recall that decals for more than just the one road were provided in the kit but I can't actually be sure about this unless I go searching through my (buried!) early catalogs. Maybe later today? CNJ9099

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4617	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine

As one who likes technological diversity (and modeling the PRR helps in that regard), i think the traction arena has had its limitations, regarding the need to really get modelers into their street catenary systems. I have a small line in mind for a small to medium-sized city with "interurban implications", but because of the city's topography i need to see what I can reasonably include. The line could feel the freedom of prototype, since it's a personal creation.   How many layout's are traction-oriented?  The Philadelphia gentleman. who is modeling the Northeast Corridor around Philadelphia, is modeling "heavy traction"; but that's not what I am referring to herein either. It's also only been in recent years that major electrified railroads have found catenary modeling support of  U.S. prototypes. The streetcar has an appeal, but it can be too limited if the prototype were too restrictive in its use and history geographically. Suydam's P.E. classes brought California to the layout, every bit as much as the importers and manufacturers of S.P. prototypes; MTS touches the other coast and then some. I silently smiled at the "Big Red Car's" cameos in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" in the 1990's to see if the P.E. might benefit from that movie, in only indirectly. Oh, well...   In my decades with the hobby, I find that things come and go and sometimes return in their own good time. Sometimes, as was inferred herein, they need a little push.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)               Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> wrote: John Barlow wrote: Dear Gerold,   Alpine has a website of its own, and they are structures.. .but things like the spring belt drive replacements for their old brass are still available from Alpine. For that I am grateful. Sorry, I saw no renewed importing of brass models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) I think its not the time now to import Interurban  models... the sole remaining importer seems to have problems to sell his runs and even had to cancel certain models due to lack of interest, although the prices seem to be reasonable in view of the high quality. Strange that it is possible to sell steamers for $2000 and complete trains ( without motive power) for $4000 but there are not enough prospective buyers for a $500 trolley. I have bought both structures and parts from Alpine, wonder if they make much money or if this is a labor of love? Gerold Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4618	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)

On the group home page in the photo albums there is a .jpg of the catalog page from the 1963 book. Look in the photos section, the album is "shuttlejack" Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "cnj999" <jbortle@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 4:52 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack) > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@...> wrote: >> I could not find a add or >> catalog description, going on memory a risky thing it seems they > advertised >> it as a branchline loco. I thought that Model Trains had a review > for a >> project layout but could not find it in the issues I have. I > waited awhile >> for one to come up on eBay, then shortly after >> another one was available without a power truck, but fortunately i > had a >> spare. So one day I may have doubleheaded Shuttle Jacks. The kits > are not >> difficult to assemble but take a bit of time. >> Roger >> > > The blurb in the period Walthers' ads and catalog indicated the > intent of this model was a one car train that could be operated on > the most exteme tight radius, or spaghetti-bowl, layouts of the day. > > The M-190 is cited as the model's inspiration in the ads. However, I > seem to recall that decals for more than just the one road were > provided in the kit but I can't actually be sure about this unless I > go searching through my (buried!) early catalogs. Maybe later today? > > CNJ9099 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4619	From: cnj999	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > On the group home page in the photo albums there is a .jpg of the catalog > page from the 1963 book. Look in the photos section, the album is > "shuttlejack" > Indeed, I found an identical ad in a 1960 edition of the Walthers Catalog. Interestingly, although the Shuttle-Jack was introduced in 1954, I can find no reference to it ever having been reviewed in MR (much of Walthers stuff was, over the years). For those who consult Don's Walthers page repro in the Photos section but can't quite make out all the wording, the text does not specifically identify the Shuttle-Jack with a prototype, although it obviously respresents the M-190. Although I was correct that the kit came with decals, the ad does not indicate what road(s) they were for. The ad shows a Shuttle-Jack simply decaled "Walthers" As I indicated in my previous post, this item's main intent was to serve as a very small layout's single motive power and is shown in the '60 Walthers Catalog as running alone, pulling a short string of freight cars, as well as hauling two "Pug" trailer passenger cars. Further, the Shuttle-Jack's operating radius is cited as a mere 16" and that it can be run through 12"-14" curves in a pinch! The little jingle accompanying the ad tells it all: "If you haven't got the whole dang floor," "Build your layout on a two by four" "To a small radius lay your track," "And add a Walthers Shuttle-Jack." CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4620	From: Rick Jones	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine

John Barlow wrote: > > *How many layouts are traction-oriented? MR did a traction layout as one of their layout construction series a few years ago. No idea how many people that inspired to try their hand at traction modeling. Other than that, I'm aware that there are a couple of traction modular groups - one in the Los Angeles area and the other someplace in the east, Pennsylvania I think. I'd be interested in seeing more traction in the hobby magazines, though I suppose from the publishers' points of view it's a matter of them just not getting the submissions of articles from writers on the subject. I hope to include some traction on my layout when I get it built. Designer's block has had me stumped for ages, so my 700 sq. foot building just sits empty in the backyard. Presently I just have 2 trolleys - a Suydam PE #1299 business car and a tiny #10 combine for Shelburne Falls & Colrain by Fomras Models. I'd like more, including at least one PE blimp. The stark raving mad side of me is even intrigued by the possibility of trying to build a grand union in the middle of the city on the layout, and maybe even doing some mainline catenary so could run some of the GN and Milwaukee Road heavy electrics. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ Earth is the insane asylum of the universe.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4621	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine

It will probably take some sort of technological innovation on the order of the composite steamers we are now seeing to bring interurbans back to the general marketplace.  Along with that innovation will have to come a market demand.  Recall that when Suydam, LMB, Ken Kidder and a few others were first importing brass interurbans in HO, the typical powered car sold for about $30, while the Athearn F-7 was about $20--just for a frame of reference.  I intend no comparison otherwise.  Suydam and Kidder also sold O Scale unpowered bodies for about $45.Underbody detail was crude, and interiors were zilch.  The challenge was to take one of these basic models and finish it to your desire.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 4:03 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Suydam - Alpine As one who likes technological diversity (and modeling the PRR helps in that regard), i think the traction arena has had its limitations, regarding the need to really get modelers into their street catenary systems. I have a small line in mind for a small to medium-sized city with "interurban implications", but because of the city's topography i need to see what I can reasonably include. The line could feel the freedom of prototype, since it's a personal creation.   How many layout's are traction-oriented?  The Philadelphia gentleman. who is modeling the Northeast Corridor around Philadelphia, is modeling "heavy traction"; but that's not what I am referring to herein either. It's also only been in recent years that major electrified railroads have found catenary modeling support of  U.S. prototypes. The streetcar has an appeal, but it can be too limited if the prototype were too restrictive in its use and history geographically. Suydam's P.E. classes brought California to the layout, every bit as much as the importers and manufacturers of S.P. prototypes; MTS touches the other coast and then some. I silently smiled at the "Big Red Car's" cameos in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" in the 1990's to see if the P.E. might benefit from that movie, in only indirectly. Oh, well...   In my decades with the hobby, I find that things come and go and sometimes return in their own good time. Sometimes, as was inferred herein, they need a little push.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)               Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> wrote: John Barlow wrote: Dear Gerold,   Alpine has a website of its own, and they are structures.. .but things like the spring belt drive replacements for their old brass are still available from Alpine. For that I am grateful. Sorry, I saw no renewed importing of brass models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) I think its not the time now to import Interurban  models... the sole remaining importer seems to have problems to sell his runs and even had to cancel certain models due to lack of interest, although the prices seem to be reasonable in view of the high quality. Strange that it is possible to sell steamers for $2000 and complete trains ( without motive power) for $4000 but there are not enough prospective buyers for a $500 trolley. I have bought both structures and parts from Alpine, wonder if they make much money or if this is a labor of love? Gerold Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4622	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine

Actually part of your friendly listowner's layout is trolly and interurban, running streetcars (mostly Bachmann Brills_ and a couple North Shore cars (A Walther's combine and an old MTS Electroliner).   Don   don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Barlow To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Suydam - Alpine As one who likes technological diversity (and modeling the PRR helps in that regard), i think the traction arena has had its limitations, regarding the need to really get modelers into their street catenary systems. I have a small line in mind for a small to medium-sized city with "interurban implications", but because of the city's topography i need to see what I can reasonably include. The line could feel the freedom of prototype, since it's a personal creation.   How many layout's are traction-oriented?  The Philadelphia gentleman. who is modeling the Northeast Corridor around Philadelphia, is modeling "heavy traction"; but that's not what I am referring to herein either. It's also only been in recent years that major electrified railroads have found catenary modeling support of  U.S. prototypes. The streetcar has an appeal, but it can be too limited if the prototype were too restrictive in its use and history geographically. Suydam's P.E. classes brought California to the layout, every bit as much as the importers and manufacturers of S.P. prototypes; MTS touches the other coast and then some. I silently smiled at the "Big Red Car's" cameos in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" in the 1990's to see if the P.E. might benefit from that movie, in only indirectly. Oh, well...   In my decades with the hobby, I find that things come and go and sometimes return in their own good time. Sometimes, as was inferred herein, they need a little push.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)               Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> wrote: John Barlow wrote: Dear Gerold,   Alpine has a website of its own, and they are structures.. .but things like the spring belt drive replacements for their old brass are still available from Alpine. For that I am grateful. Sorry, I saw no renewed importing of brass models.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com) I think its not the time now to import Interurban  models... the sole remaining importer seems to have problems to sell his runs and even had to cancel certain models due to lack of interest, although the prices seem to be reasonable in view of the high quality. Strange that it is possible to sell steamers for $2000 and complete trains ( without motive power) for $4000 but there are not enough prospective buyers for a $500 trolley. I have bought both structures and parts from Alpine, wonder if they make much money or if this is a labor of love? Gerold Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4623	From: DLeistikow@webtv.net	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine

Rick Jones and list: Most of the Train and Model Railroad Annual Shows do attract many modular traction layouts. Check them out as they are announced in the various trade and model railroad magazines. Some clubs do have websites which depict their model railroads as an attraction to the public and to those who wish to join them. Don L.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4624	From: Raymond Lorts Sr	Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: none

Hi Guys:  MERRY CHRISTMAS   and  HAPPY NEW YEAR  one all.                                   Ray &  Jean  Lorts  Sr Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4625	From: rayzef	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Red Ball Acid Tank Car

Hi all I have a Red Ball Acid Tank Car kit but it is missing the card wrapper. If anyone has the kit unmade, could you please be kind enough to scan and send me a copy. I can then print on card and complete the kit. I have a Red Ball Snow Plow and Tender kit and tender is missing but I do have a spare side and roof of the plow if anyone needs one. Thanks Ray Z

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4626	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine

Rick, I remember those articles in MR and they did inspire me to add traction to my vintage layout. I have hunted down the last few traction operations in the US as a result just to see the real thing. For my layout I have an old Suydam GE 49-ton boxcab and a Ken Kidder version of the same as well as a couple of other traction models from Bowser/Penn Line. I use the Penn Line/Bowser poles and phosphor bronze wire for the overhead. Mine is very crude and I am looking at some of the other traction related items that show up on eBay. My Suydam unit needed a new belt for the drive and I really appreciated the reference to Alpine that started this thread. I went to their website and placed an order on line. They have a good shopping software program and it worked smoothly. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > John Barlow wrote: > > > > *How many layouts are traction-oriented? > > MR did a traction layout as one of their layout construction series > a few years ago. No idea how many people that inspired to try their hand > at traction modeling. Other than that, I'm aware that there are a couple > of traction modular groups - one in the Los Angeles area and the other > someplace in the east, Pennsylvania I think. > I'd be interested in seeing more traction in the hobby magazines, > though I suppose from the publishers' points of view it's a matter of > them just not getting the submissions of articles from writers on the > subject. > I hope to include some traction on my layout when I get it built. > Designer's block has had me stumped for ages, so my 700 sq. foot > building just sits empty in the backyard. Presently I just have 2 > trolleys - a Suydam PE #1299 business car and a tiny #10 combine for > Shelburne Falls & Colrain by Fomras Models. I'd like more, including at > least one PE blimp. The stark raving mad side of me is even intrigued by > the possibility of trying to build a grand union in the middle of the > city on the layout, and maybe even doing some mainline catenary so could > run some of the GN and Milwaukee Road heavy electrics. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ > > Earth is the insane asylum of the universe. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4627	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Re: The Rarest of Plastic Trolleys...Maybe (was: Suydam - Alpine)

Dear List,   If anyone out there has a Bachmann PCC in SEPTA colors...treasure it. You may already know why I say that. Back in the early-1980's Bachmann was embroiled in litigation with SEPTA because the former never got the latter's written permission to do the PCC model in SEPTA colors. SEPTA won. The SEPTA model paint scheme had to be discontinued, and I have never seen it done by Bachmann since. But how many made it to the hobby shops in the meantime? I don't know. I have a few and refuse to part with them. They must command a price today...so be it.   We can and should treasure the brass traction pieces done, but one of traction modeling's strangest stories and rarities is in plastic...out there in many hands in many places.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)         Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4628	From: texpearson@AOL.com	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Looking for Mantua Stock Cars

I am looking for some of the Mantua stock cars with the "Howe" truss style side bracing and the wood sheathed ends.  Condition isn't critical because I plan to modify them further to match a RI article written by Steve Hile.   Please reply off list   Tom in Texas See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4629	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine

Matt---have you seen the Iowa Traction in Mason City? My late RR friend Soph Marty sent me many slides over the years (No, I don't have the capability of scanning them)--they have a lot of interesting stuff and are still hauling freight with juice locos. At least one from Texas. His son Thorin is working on a book on the Iowa Traction/Iowa Terminal/ Mason City & Clear Lake. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:54 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Suydam - Alpine > Rick, > > I remember those articles in MR and they did inspire me to add > traction to my vintage layout. I have hunted down the last few > traction operations in the US as a result just to see the real thing. > > For my layout I have an old Suydam GE 49-ton boxcab and a Ken Kidder > version of the same as well as a couple of other traction models from > Bowser/Penn Line. I use the Penn Line/Bowser poles and phosphor bronze > wire for the overhead. Mine is very crude and I am looking at some of > the other traction related items that show up on eBay. > > My Suydam unit needed a new belt for the drive and I really > appreciated the reference to Alpine that started this thread. I went > to their website and placed an order on line. They have a good > shopping software program and it worked smoothly. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: >> >> John Barlow wrote: >> > >> > *How many layouts are traction-oriented? >> >> MR did a traction layout as one of their layout construction series >> a few years ago. No idea how many people that inspired to try their > hand >> at traction modeling. Other than that, I'm aware that there are a > couple >> of traction modular groups - one in the Los Angeles area and the other >> someplace in the east, Pennsylvania I think. >> I'd be interested in seeing more traction in the hobby magazines, >> though I suppose from the publishers' points of view it's a matter of >> them just not getting the submissions of articles from writers on the >> subject. >> I hope to include some traction on my layout when I get it built. >> Designer's block has had me stumped for ages, so my 700 sq. foot >> building just sits empty in the backyard. Presently I just have 2 >> trolleys - a Suydam PE #1299 business car and a tiny #10 combine for >> Shelburne Falls & Colrain by Fomras Models. I'd like more, including at >> least one PE blimp. The stark raving mad side of me is even > intrigued by >> the possibility of trying to build a grand union in the middle of the >> city on the layout, and maybe even doing some mainline catenary so > could >> run some of the GN and Milwaukee Road heavy electrics. >> >> -- >> >> Rick Jones >> >> The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad >> http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ >> >> Earth is the insane asylum of the universe. >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4630	From: Paul Kayne	Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: How about this for overhead!!

Hello, Be sure to play the video!........Vicon90   http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page68a/news/index.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4631	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 12/17/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine

No, I have never seen that one. I wish I had. My brother knew Soph Marty when he was at school at Drake back in the 1970s but I never made it to Iowa. Being in the Navy we don't have a lot of contact with the center part of the country. Thanks for the tip though, that is another one to try to get to while it is still around! Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Matt---have you seen the Iowa Traction in Mason City? My late RR friend > Soph Marty sent me many slides over the years (No, I don't have the > capability of scanning them)--they have a lot of interesting stuff and are > still hauling freight with juice locos. At least one from Texas. His son > Thorin is working on a book on the Iowa Traction/Iowa Terminal/ Mason City > & Clear Lake. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:54 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Suydam - Alpine >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4632	From: Jack Priller	Date: 12/17/2007
Subject: Re: Available: one old kit

I >FINALLY< have that Lehigh Models B&O boxcar kit actually in my possesion, so will the gentleman who contacted me please get back to me off-list. I seem to have forgotten which file I put the correspondence in. :<(( Also, from the same source as that car, I have here, in my house, four more kits: One Railmaster Lehigh Valley hopper One Red Ball deep well flatcar One Ulrich Lehigh Valley Std Twin Hopper [#931-111] Box says less trucks but there is a pair in the box One Westerfield #2405 PSC Hopper car, Original, Lehigh Valley [Man says he has two more of these] Price for above is $7.50 each, plus shipping which $3 should cover. From my own collection, I'm selling 7 kits: 4 HO Maker unknown (no name on box or instructions) a Sinclair tank car, die-cast frame, wooden dowel body, plastic end caps and dome, no trucks, but a rather odd looking set of couplers. $7.00 Model Traction Supply flat bed work motor $7.00 LaBelle HO-51 Texas Midland tank car $7.00 LaBelle HO-79 Niles 4-door Freight Motor; has pair of Marklin (?) pantographs in box. $10.00 3 HOn3 Master Creations #409 Colorado Central Excursion car, instructions lost. $5.00 LaBelle #HOn3-20, D&RG coach, came less trucks, but has a bag with PFM narrow gage trucks in the box. $10.00 LaBelle #HOn3-30, Pacific Coast 30' box car, (partially assembled) also came less trucks, but has a bag of Grandt Line # 5111 trucks in the box. $10.00 Same $3 shipping applies. Jack Priller El Paso, TX --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...> wrote: > > At my local club's Open House this afternoon, saw for sale a Lehigh > Models kit for a B&O boxcar. I am sure the floor and roof walk are die > cast and I think the ends and doors are as well. Sides are printed > card-board. Not sure of the age; no copyright date on the > instructions, but the address Allentown, PA) does NOT have a zip code > after it. Gentleman that owns it is asking $7.50, but will be out of > town from Tuesday morning this week until at least Tuesday of next > week. Please contact me OFF-LIST if any one is interested. > > Jack Priller > El Paso, TX >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4633	From: Jay Matz	Date: 12/17/2007
Subject: Red Ball Kit

Hi all I also have a Red Ball Acid Tank Car kit but it is missing the card wrapper. If anyone has the kit unmade, could you please be kind enough to scan and send me a copy. I can then print on card and complete the kit. Thank you Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4634	From: cnj999	Date: 12/18/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Kit

Not sure that you might not already be aware that Model Railroad Warehouse still has some of the Red Ball #772-H5 Nitric Acid Car kits available. I have an original (from the 1950's?), finished-out model and, admittedly, one of the kits too, around the house somewhere. However, after re-organizing my layout room a while back, I can't find anything anymore! Will take a look around but make no promises. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4635	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 12/18/2007
Subject: New Yahoo group

A place to list auctions, help sell your items or find what you are looking for. Roger Aultman http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRR4AUCTION/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4636	From: Jack Priller	Date: 12/18/2007
Subject: Re: Available: one old kit

OK, Ray contacted me re the B&O box car, and he also has spoken for the Railmaster LV hopper. He also helped me determine that the Red Ball deep-well flat is the LV version. Hugh has spoken for the two traction types, the work motor and the Niles express motor. And I would add that it is HIGHLY unlikely that anything is shipping before Christmas. Jack Priller -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...> wrote: > > I >FINALLY< have that Lehigh Models B&O boxcar kit actually in > my > possesion, so will the gentleman who contacted me please get back to > me off-list. I seem to have forgotten which file I put the > correspondence in. :<(( > > Also, from the same source as that car, I have here, in my > house, > four more kits: > One Railmaster Lehigh Valley hopper > One Red Ball deep well flatcar > One Ulrich Lehigh Valley Std Twin Hopper [#931-111] > Box says less trucks but there is a pair in the box > One Westerfield #2405 PSC Hopper car, Original, Lehigh Valley > [Man says he has two more of these] > Price for above is $7.50 each, plus shipping which $3 should cover. > > From my own collection, I'm selling 7 kits: > 4 HO > Maker unknown (no name on box or instructions) a Sinclair tank > car, die-cast frame, wooden dowel body, plastic end caps and dome, > no > trucks, but a rather odd looking set of couplers. $7.00 > Model Traction Supply flat bed work motor $7.00 > LaBelle HO-51 Texas Midland tank car $7.00 > LaBelle HO-79 Niles 4-door Freight Motor; has pair of Marklin > (?) > pantographs in box. $10.00 > 3 HOn3 > Master Creations #409 Colorado Central Excursion car, > instructions lost. $5.00 > LaBelle #HOn3-20, D&RG coach, came less trucks, but has a bag > with PFM narrow gage trucks in the box. $10.00 > LaBelle #HOn3-30, Pacific Coast 30' box car, (partially > assembled) also came less trucks, but has a bag of Grandt Line # > 5111 > trucks in the box. $10.00 > > Same $3 shipping applies. > > Jack Priller > El Paso, TX > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@> > wrote: > > > > At my local club's Open House this afternoon, saw for sale a > Lehigh > > Models kit for a B&O boxcar. I am sure the floor and roof walk are > die > > cast and I think the ends and doors are as well. Sides are printed > > card-board. Not sure of the age; no copyright date on the > > instructions, but the address Allentown, PA) does NOT have a zip > code > > after it. Gentleman that owns it is asking $7.50, but will be out > of > > town from Tuesday morning this week until at least Tuesday of next > > week. Please contact me OFF-LIST if any one is interested. > > > > Jack Priller > > El Paso, TX > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4637	From: cnj999	Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Nitric Acid Car Kit Wrapper

Jay, check your e-mail. I've sent you a file including the car wrapper. rayzef - provide me with a viable e-mail address (a complete one doesn't seem to show up here for you) and I'll send you a copy as well. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4638	From: jay matz	Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Nitric Acid Car Kit Wrapper

Thank you have downloaded the wrapper, will work on the kit after the holidays. Jat cnj999 <jbortle@...> wrote: Jay, check your e-mail. I've sent you a file including the car wrapper. rayzef - provide me with a viable e-mail address (a complete one doesn't seem to show up here for you) and I'll send you a copy as well. CNJ999 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4639	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Nitric Acid Car Kit Wrapper

Might be a good idea to seal the print with glosscote--both sides.   gj ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:40 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Red Ball Nitric Acid Car Kit Wrapper Thank you have downloaded the wrapper, will work on the kit after the holidays. Jat cnj999 <jbortle@...> wrote: Jay, check your e-mail. I've sent you a file including the car wrapper. rayzef - provide me with a viable e-mail address (a complete one doesn't seem to show up here for you) and I'll send you a copy as well. CNJ999 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4640	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: What I've been doing

Attachments : Couple new projects, got a Varney Blue streamlined diner on eBay, now the only one I'm missing is a blue combine, anybody have one they want to get rid of? I posted a week or so ago pics of a Pickard covered hopper a friend on the list sent me. Here it is with some parts from the scrapbox and some Evergreen strip styrene. You may have been following my trials and tribulations with my HObbyline H-10-44. It was in an accident, another car fell on it!. A little filing and sawing to remove the damagfed part and it's now an H-12-44. It's also one of the best running switchers I have, because under the hood is now a proto-power west drive with a Sagami can motor. The wheelbase is a bit short but I can live with it. Ainahoo, that's it for now, if I don't talk to you before then, I hope everyone has a very merry Christmas. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4641	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been doing

Looking good Don, Nice work. Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: Couple new projects, got a Varney Blue streamlined diner on eBay, now the only one I'm missing is a blue combine, anybody have one they want to get rid of? I posted a week or so ago pics of a Pickard covered hopper a friend on the list sent me. Here it is with some parts from the scrapbox and some Evergreen strip styrene. You may have been following my trials and tribulations with my HObbyline H-10-44. It was in an accident, another car fell on it!. A little filing and sawing to remove the damagfed part and it's now an H-12-44. It's also one of the best running switchers I have, because under the hood is now a proto-power west drive with a Sagami can motor. The wheelbase is a bit short but I can live with it. Ainahoo, that's it for now, if I don't talk to you before then, I hope everyone has a very merry Christmas. Don don.dellmann@ prodigy.net http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4642	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: switches.

While going thru a box on 0-27 track I was giving away, I found two switches that appear to be HO, but are 3-rail, with tubular rails like Lionel- -I ft first thought I had hit a bonanza with Lionel OO Gauge--but these are definitely too narrow.  Definitely HO gauge.  The only markings I can find are "Made in Germany".   Anyone know what they are??   Anyone want to make me an offer for them,"   Anyone interested at all??   Glenn Joesten

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4643	From: curmudgeon	Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: Re: switches.

Märklin was three-rail, later stud contact. And, German. > While going thru a box on 0-27 track I was giving away, I found two switches that appear to be HO, but are 3-rail, with tubular rails like Lionel- -I ft first thought I had hit a bonanza with Lionel OO Gauge-- but these are definitely too narrow. Definitely HO gauge. The only markings I can find are "Made in Germany". > > Anyone know what they are?? > > Anyone want to make me an offer for them," > > Anyone interested at all?? > > Glenn Joesten >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4644	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: Re: switches.

Dave--thanks--I had dismissed Maerklin because I always think of stud contact for them, as well as more detailed track./ These look like Lionels what got shrunk in the wash. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: switches. Märklin was three-rail, later stud contact. And, German. > While going thru a box on 0-27 track I was giving away, I found two switches that appear to be HO, but are 3-rail, with tubular rails like Lionel- -I ft first thought I had hit a bonanza with Lionel OO Gauge-- but these are definitely too narrow. Definitely HO gauge. The only markings I can find are "Made in Germany". > > Anyone know what they are?? > > Anyone want to make me an offer for them," > > Anyone interested at all?? > > Glenn Joesten > Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4645	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.

Trix was three-rail in the pre-war years. They could also be German-made items for British sets. There were a number of companies that imported short runs of German toy trains in British livery during the depression. You would need to have someone who is knowledgeable about Maerklin, Trix, and three-rail Hornby to give you the "for sure" answer. I have visited several model railroad museums in Germany and the UK and am always amazed at the depth and complexity of their HO offerings in the 1930s, long before HO was such a major factor in the US. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Märklin was three-rail, later stud contact. > And, German. > > > > While going thru a box on 0-27 track I was giving away, I found two > switches that appear to be HO, but are 3-rail, with tubular rails like > Lionel- -I ft first thought I had hit a bonanza with Lionel OO Gauge-- > but these are definitely too narrow. Definitely HO gauge. The only > markings I can find are "Made in Germany". > > > > Anyone know what they are?? > > > > Anyone want to make me an offer for them," > > > > Anyone interested at all?? > > > > Glenn Joesten > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4646	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.

The other thing they could be is "Trix Express". Trix was still using 3 rail as late as the 1970's. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: switches. Märklin was three-rail, later stud contact. And, German. > While going thru a box on 0-27 track I was giving away, I found two switches that appear to be HO, but are 3-rail, with tubular rails like Lionel- -I ft first thought I had hit a bonanza with Lionel OO Gauge-- but these are definitely too narrow. Definitely HO gauge. The only markings I can find are "Made in Germany". > > Anyone know what they are?? > > Anyone want to make me an offer for them," > > Anyone interested at all?? > > Glenn Joesten > Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4647	From: Jerry Garteiser	Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.

Sounds like Marklin HO, which as I recall runs on AC power like Lionel.  JerryG   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn476 Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:55 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] switches.   While going thru a box on 0-27 track I was giving away, I found two switches that appear to be HO, but are 3-rail, with tubular rails like Lionel- -I ft first thought I had hit a bonanza with Lionel OO Gauge--but these are definitely too narrow.  Definitely HO gauge.  The only markings I can find are "Made in Germany".   Anyone know what they are??   Anyone want to make me an offer for them,"   Anyone interested at all??   Glenn Joesten

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4648	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.

Thanks--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmattjcoleman" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 3:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: switches. Trix was three-rail in the pre-war years. They could also be German-made items for British sets. There were a number of companies that imported short runs of German toy trains in British livery during the depression. You would need to have someone who is knowledgeable about Maerklin, Trix, and three-rail Hornby to give you the "for sure" answer. I have visited several model railroad museums in Germany and the UK and am always amazed at the depth and complexity of their HO offerings in the 1930s, long before HO was such a major factor in the US. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Märklin was three-rail, later stud contact. > And, German. > > > > While going thru a box on 0-27 track I was giving away, I found two > switches that appear to be HO, but are 3-rail, with tubular rails like > Lionel- -I ft first thought I had hit a bonanza with Lionel OO Gauge-- > but these are definitely too narrow. Definitely HO gauge. The only > markings I can find are "Made in Germany". > > > > Anyone know what they are?? > > > > Anyone want to make me an offer for them," > > > > Anyone interested at all?? > > > > Glenn Joesten > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4649	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Christmas wishes

I just wanted to take a minute to step aside here and wish everyone here a very Merry and Blessed Christmas and a Happy New Year. It's been a priviledge moderating these groups the last year, and I'm looking forward to many more. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4650	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas wishes

Thanks, Don !   You work is not unappreciated !   Keep it up - and thanks for all your efforts. Merry Christmas!   Fred Hultberg(redident etching wizard, Fotocut)     Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: I just wanted to take a minute to step aside here and wish everyone here a very Merry and Blessed Christmas and a Happy New Year. It's been a priviledge moderating these groups the last year, and I'm looking forward to many more. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4651	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Christmas Invitation - God bless you all

Christmas invitation!   Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4652	From: Jay Matz	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year every one Hope there is lots of train stuff under the tree for every one. Jay Chief cook and bottle washer Berkshire and Allegheny RR Neversink RR http://www.dlw-model-rr.com/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4653	From: John Hagen	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Holidays

May your Christmas be merry for you and yours. May the New Year be one of happiness and well being for all. May any loved ones serving overseas be safe and return home soon. John Hagen Milwaukee, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4654	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Thanks Fred !

Merry Chrismas to all of you , Hank and Mary Hultgren

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4655	From: Mary Long	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas  to you and yours . Nice layout Jay !  Henry H. Jay Matz <dlw455@...> wrote: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year every one Hope there is lots of train stuff under the tree for every one. Jay Chief cook and bottle washer Berkshire and Allegheny RR Neversink RR http://www.dlw- model-rr. com/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4656	From: oahurailway	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: MELE KALIKIMAKA!

Mele Kalikimaka & Hauoli Makahiki Hou (Merry Christmas & Happy New Year) Island style to Don & all the other Brass Hats & Gandy Dancers from the Oahu Railway. Oh Eight will be Great!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4657	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: MELE KALIKIMAKA!

Thank you...and may your stockings be full of LaBelle Woodworking HOn3 Navy Depot boxcar kits...with trucks and couplers.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) (Hickam AFB, Sep 70 -Sep 72) oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote: Mele Kalikimaka & Hauoli Makahiki Hou (Merry Christmas & Happy New Year) Island style to Don & all the other Brass Hats & Gandy Dancers from the Oahu Railway. Oh Eight will be Great! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4658	From: Rick Jones	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas wishes

Don Dellmann wrote: > I just wanted to take a minute to step aside here and wish everyone here a > very Merry and Blessed Christmas and a Happy New Year. It's been a > privilege moderating these groups the last year, and I'm looking forward to > many more. And a joyous Yuletide and Saturnalia right back. -- Rick Jones The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ If you look like your passport picture, you probably need the trip.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4659	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Christmas Invitation - God bless you all

Christmas invitation!   Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4660	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas wishes

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas wishes > Don Dellmann wrote: >> I just wanted to take a minute to step aside here and wish everyone here >> a >> very Merry and Blessed Christmas and a Happy New Year. It's been a >> privilege moderating these groups the last year, and I'm looking forward >> to >> many more. > > And a joyous Yuletide and Saturnalia right back. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/ Well, I missed Hannukah :-) Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4661	From: louiskgreiff	Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit

I would like to build an HO model of a DL&W steel ice-bunker refrigerator car built by the Despatch Shops in East Rochester, NY. The decals for this car are available from Micro Scale, but to my knowledge there is no current HO model on the market of the Despatch Shops refrigerator car. The Kurtz Kraft refrigerator car kit, originally produced in the 1950s, has been reissued (I believe by West Shore Line) painted in NYC/MDT colors and labeled as a Dispatch Shops car. Does anyone know if the Kurtz Kraft HO refrigerator car kit is actually a model of the Despatch Shops car? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Best wishes and happy holidays. Lou Greiff

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4662	From: Walter J. Bayer II	Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Merry Christmas

To Don and All, MERRY CHRISTMAS and A HAPPY AND HEALTHY NEW YEAR! Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4663	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Re: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit

I have some, and am not certain--they followed the PS-1 boxcar kit and may well have used a lot of the same parts--just adding a couple of new sprues for the sides and hatches.door hardware. Unfortunately the authority I would have asked about this dies a few months back. That was Gerry White--whose "Superior Models" custom building operation merged with Kurtz Kraft for a while in the mid 1950's. Gerry was one of the founders of the O Scale West meets, and active in NMRA/PCR activities. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "louiskgreiff" <louie113@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 1:03 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit >I would like to build an HO model of a DL&W steel ice-bunker refrigerator >car built by the > Despatch Shops in East Rochester, NY. The decals for this car are > available from Micro Scale, > but to my knowledge there is no current HO model on the market of the > Despatch Shops > refrigerator car. The Kurtz Kraft refrigerator car kit, originally > produced in the 1950s, has > been reissued (I believe by West Shore Line) painted in NYC/MDT colors and > labeled as a > Dispatch Shops car. Does anyone know if the Kurtz Kraft HO refrigerator > car kit is actually a > model of the Despatch Shops car? Thanks in advance for any help you can > provide. Best > wishes and happy holidays. > > > Lou Greiff > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4664	From: louiskgreiff	Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit

I would like to build an HO model of a DL&W steel ice-bunker refrigerator car built by the Despatch Shops in East Rochester, NY. The decals for this car are available from Micro Scale, but to my knowledge there is no current HO model on the market of the Despatch Shops refrigerator car. The Kurtz Kraft refrigerator car kit, originally produced in the 1950s, has been reissued (I believe by West Shore Line) painted in NYC/MDT colors and labeled as a Dispatch Shops car. Does anyone know if the Kurtz Kraft HO refrigerator car kit is actually a model of the Despatch Shops car? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Best wishes and happy holidays. Lou Greiff

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4665	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Re: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit

----- Original Message ----- From: "louiskgreiff" <louie113@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit >I would like to build an HO model of a DL&W steel ice-bunker refrigerator >car built by the > Despatch Shops in East Rochester, NY. The decals for this car are > available from Micro Scale, > but to my knowledge there is no current HO model on the market of the > Despatch Shops > refrigerator car. The Kurtz Kraft refrigerator car kit, originally > produced in the 1950s, has > been reissued (I believe by West Shore Line) painted in NYC/MDT colors and > labeled as a > Dispatch Shops car. Does anyone know if the Kurtz Kraft HO refrigerator > car kit is actually a > model of the Despatch Shops car? Thanks in advance for any help you can > provide. Best > wishes and happy holidays. > > > Lou Greiff I can't help ypu with the prototype, but I do know the Kurtz-Kraft kit was also available through much of the 1980's under the "Cannonball Car Shops" name. Might be easier to locate one that way. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4666	From: Mike Christian	Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Athearn 40' TOFC cars

Back in the 1950's (and possibly into the early '60's) Athearn made a 40' TOFC car with one 20' trailer, Pretty much like the 50' car with two trailers. This car was only available for a few years, and may have only been available in train sets. I have never seen any of these cars on eBay. Does anyone know why Athearn dropped them from their line? Does anyone have any for sale or trade? I am restoring some Athearn train sets from the 50-60's and one set originally came with two of these cars, but neither were in the set when I bought it. So I'm looking for a couple to complete the set. Thanx, Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4667	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars

I don't recall that one--Ulrich and Penn Line each did a 40 ft pig flat with a 30 or 35 ft trailer gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Christian" <mikec@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 5:33 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn 40' TOFC cars > Back in the 1950's (and possibly into the early '60's) Athearn made a 40' > TOFC car with one 20' trailer, Pretty much like the 50' car with two > trailers. This car was only available for a few years, and may have only > been available in train sets. I have never seen any of these cars on eBay. > > Does anyone know why Athearn dropped them from their line? > > Does anyone have any for sale or trade? > > I am restoring some Athearn train sets from the 50-60's and one set > originally came with two of these cars, but neither were in the set when I > bought it. So I'm looking for a couple to complete the set. > > Thanx, > > Mike > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4668	From: cnj999	Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Christian" <mikec@...> wrote: > > Back in the 1950's (and possibly into the early '60's) Athearn made a 40' > TOFC car with one 20' trailer, Pretty much like the 50' car with two > trailers. This car was only available for a few years, and may have only > been available in train sets. I have never seen any of these cars on eBay. > Mike, these were indeed offered in several of Athearn's train sets during the 1958-60 period but I can not immediately locate anything that indicates they were available as separate, Shake-the-Box, kits at the time. If they were indeed strictly a train set item, odds are that very few of the trailers would have survived down to the present, explaining their failure to appear on eBay. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4669	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars

On the cover of the “Standard Guide to Athearn Model Trains” one is pictured.  The kit numbers are 1360 undec, 1361 Seaboard Air Line, 1362 GM&O, 1363 Reading in Tuscan, 1363 Reading in Black, 1364 D&RGW.  The book indicates that they are scarce.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Mike Christian" <mikec@...> wrote: > > Back in the 1950's (and possibly into the early '60's) Athearn made a 40' > TOFC car with one 20' trailer, Pretty much like the 50' car with two > trailers. This car was only available for a few years, and may have only > been available in train sets. I have never seen any of these cars on eBay.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4670	From: Larry	Date: 12/27/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars

Athearn did release in the 1970's a ready to run TOFC car. These window boxes were sold in train sets and individually. Also in the mid 1960's Athearn released in train sets The TOFC car. http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/athearnrtr/PRR_40_FLAT_WITH_TRAILER_FR OM_TRAIN_SET http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/athearntrainsets/6038_G http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/athearntrainsets/6223_SF_F7ABA_8_CAR_F R http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/athearntrainsets/6255_G You also maybe able to find out more about them here: http://www.hoseeker.net/athearnmicellaneous.html Larry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Christian" <mikec@...> wrote: > > Back in the 1950's (and possibly into the early '60's) Athearn made a 40' > TOFC car with one 20' trailer, Pretty much like the 50' car with two > trailers. This car was only available for a few years, and may have only > been available in train sets. I have never seen any of these cars on eBay. > > Does anyone know why Athearn dropped them from their line? > > Does anyone have any for sale or trade? > > I am restoring some Athearn train sets from the 50-60's and one set > originally came with two of these cars, but neither were in the set when I > bought it. So I'm looking for a couple to complete the set. > > Thanx, > > Mike >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4671	From: Garry Spear	Date: 12/27/2007
Subject: FS: Old Passenger Trucks - Varney & Walthers - Cevtral Valley

Need a old passenger car truck to fix or repair an old model. Well I have three trucks, different trucks looking for a home. All seem to be hard metal die cast trucks. 1) is a 6 wheel Varney (name on bottom) heavyweight Pullman type truck; I guess prewar or 1940's. The metal is solid, never painted, brass wheels, and steel axles. One axle has a bent journal, axle point, needing correction. Good looking truck, sharp detailing. Asking $4.00 2) is a 4 wheel Varney (name on bottom) express refrigerator car type truck. The metal is solid, painted black, replacement wheels, and axles. One wheel has a chipped flange, and the truck has two different wheel set. Needs new wheel sets to run. Asking $3.00 3) is a 6 wheel Walthers (name on truck bolster) heavyweight Pullman type truck. The metal is solid, black painted, brass wheels, and steel axles. Asking $4.00 Prices include shipping. I will combine shipping on two or more trucks. Also, I have 12-15 new pairs of CV 4 Wheel trucks. 3 pair T-25 riveted frame $15 a pair., 5 pair T-31 cast frame $15 a pair., and 5 pair T-39 streamline $20 a pair.. These have been cleaned to remove the disintegrated foam form the wheels. All have boxes, but some boxes may be cracked, chipped, etc. Sorry for the short notice, but all will be listed (I hope) on eBay this evening. CV K-24 Brake shoe kits, $10 per package. Please respond offline, not through the group. Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4672	From: cnj999	Date: 12/27/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Christian" <mikec@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have any for sale or trade? > > I am restoring some Athearn train sets from the 50-60's and one set > originally came with two of these cars, but neither were in the set when I > bought it. So I'm looking for a couple to complete the set. > Mike - I just noticed that there is one up on eBay currently (PRR with Wabash trailers). Look for by entering "Vintage" in the HO listings. CNJ999

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4673	From: takefive247	Date: 12/28/2007
Subject: Help Identify & parts

Hi all I am looking for some help to identify a Reading 516 caboose and find some parts. I need the trucks for a lighted caboose. Photo in Bill's Mantua and other stuff in photo section of this group. Thanks Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4674	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/28/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identify & parts

Looks like an American Flyer to me...   How many trucks do you need? Any particular make or style?   Sean   takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote: Hi all I am looking for some help to identify a Reading 516 caboose and find some parts. I need the trucks for a lighted caboose. Photo in Bill's Mantua and other stuff in photo section of this group. Thanks Bill Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4675	From: Jack Priller	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Need a little help with ID

Santa (aka M-I-L) left me a couple die-cast diesel shells under the tree. One is a Varney in Santa Fe blue and yellow freight paint scheme. Other is a un-dec Lindsey with "L 799" inside the casting; also has large hole near rear of roof (steam-boiler for passenger car heating?). Me, I'm a steam fan, so please excuse my ignorance of stink-buggies. Jack Priller El Paso, TX

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4676	From: Henry Hultgren	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID

Hey Jack ! If it's an EMD the holes[?] will be at the rear on a hatch/plate with other stuff . If that hole is big ,toward the rear , takes up the carbody roof ,it's probably an Alco PA [pass. unit]That'd be a big fan opening . Does that help you some ? Hank H--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...> wrote: > > Santa (aka M-I-L) left me a couple die-cast diesel shells under > the tree. One is a Varney in Santa Fe blue and yellow freight paint > scheme. Other is a un-dec Lindsey with "L 799" inside the casting; > also has large hole near rear of roof (steam-boiler for passenger car > heating?). Me, I'm a steam fan, so please excuse my ignorance of > stink-buggies. > > Jack Priller > El Paso, TX >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4677	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID

the Lindsay sounds like an ALCo freighter. Detail Associates has a fan and screen to fit. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 6:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Need a little help with ID > Santa (aka M-I-L) left me a couple die-cast diesel shells under > the tree. One is a Varney in Santa Fe blue and yellow freight paint > scheme. Other is a un-dec Lindsey with "L 799" inside the casting; > also has large hole near rear of roof (steam-boiler for passenger car > heating?). Me, I'm a steam fan, so please excuse my ignorance of > stink-buggies. > > Jack Priller > El Paso, TX > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4678	From: Jack Priller	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID

Checked google images; seems to be a PA1. Thanks for the hint. Jack --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Hultgren" <long95209@...> wrote: > > Hey Jack ! If it's an EMD the holes[?] will be at the rear on a > hatch/plate with other stuff . If that hole is big ,toward the rear , > takes up the carbody roof ,it's probably an Alco PA [pass. > unit]That'd be a big fan opening . Does that help you some ? Hank H--- > In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@> wrote: > > > > Santa (aka M-I-L) left me a couple die-cast diesel shells under > > the tree. One is a Varney in Santa Fe blue and yellow freight paint > > scheme. Other is a un-dec Lindsey with "L 799" inside the casting; > > also has large hole near rear of roof (steam-boiler for passenger car > > heating?). Me, I'm a steam fan, so please excuse my ignorance of > > stink-buggies. > > > > Jack Priller > > El Paso, TX > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4679	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID

And:   Those fan screens are made right here at Fotocut!   Have been for more years the I care to remember... and no, I won't sell them - artwork and deign belongs exclusively to Detail Asociates.   yours,   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: the Lindsay sounds like an ALCo freighter. Detail Associates has a fan and screen to fit. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Priller" To: Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 6:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Need a little help with ID > Santa (aka M-I-L) left me a couple die-cast diesel shells under > the tree. One is a Varney in Santa Fe blue and yellow freight paint > scheme. Other is a un-dec Lindsey with "L 799" inside the casting; > also has large hole near rear of roof (steam-boiler for passenger car > heating?). Me, I'm a steam fan, so please excuse my ignorance of > stink-buggies. > > Jack Priller > El Paso, TX > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4680	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID

That Linsay unit is definitely a FA freight unit, not a PA. Lindsay never made any PAs to my knowledge. And my FAs have that number L799 on the underside of the casting. Did you get the brass number boards and the nickle headlight bezel along with it? Bill DeFoe > > Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: > the Lindsay sounds like an ALCo freighter. Detail Associates has a fan and > screen to fit. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Priller" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 6:30 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Need a little help with ID > > > > Santa (aka M-I-L) left me a couple die-cast diesel shells under > > the tree. One is a Varney in Santa Fe blue and yellow freight paint > > scheme. Other is a un-dec Lindsey with "L 799" inside the casting; > > also has large hole near rear of roof (steam-boiler for passenger car > > heating?). Me, I'm a steam fan, so please excuse my ignorance of > > stink-buggies. > > > > Jack Priller > > El Paso, TX > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4681	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID

Chuck Williams of Detail Associates is a long-time friend--I knew him before they started DA.   He's an architect in his day job--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Hultberg To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need a little help with ID And:   Those fan screens are made right here at Fotocut!   Have been for more years the I care to remember... and no, I won't sell them - artwork and deign belongs exclusively to Detail Asociates.   yours,   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Glenn476 <glenn476@...> wrote: the Lindsay sounds like an ALCo freighter. Detail Associates has a fan and screen to fit. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Priller" To: Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 6:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Need a little help with ID > Santa (aka M-I-L) left me a couple die-cast diesel shells under > the tree. One is a Varney in Santa Fe blue and yellow freight paint > scheme. Other is a un-dec Lindsey with "L 799" inside the casting; > also has large hole near rear of roof (steam-boiler for passenger car > heating?). Me, I'm a steam fan, so please excuse my ignorance of > stink-buggies. > > Jack Priller > El Paso, TX > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4682	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID

----- Original Message ----- From: "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 10:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need a little help with ID > That Linsay unit is definitely a FA freight unit, not a PA. Lindsay > never made any PAs to my knowledge. And my FAs have that number L799 > on the underside of the casting. Did you get the brass number boards > and the nickle headlight bezel along with it? > > Bill DeFoe The number inside the shell seems to be definitive. Kemtron made a PA that was similar, possibly Precision Scale also has any missing parts. The "Big Hole" IS for the radiator fan. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4683	From: takefive247	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identify & parts

One pair to fit that caboose. Preferably with all wheel pick up. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Looks like an American Flyer to me... > > How many trucks do you need? Any particular make or style? > > Sean > > > takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote: > Hi all > > I am looking for some help to identify a Reading 516 caboose and > find some parts. I need the trucks for a lighted caboose. Photo in > Bill's Mantua and other stuff in photo section of this group. > > Thanks > Bill > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4684	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Need a little help with ID

All the parts you need to go with the Linday FA shell are on ebay right now. Just search on "lindsay alco" should bring them up. Howard Garner

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4685	From: holat88	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Varney F-3 A parts request

Hello group, anyone have an idea as to where I might look for number boards for the old Varney metal engine(s). I have three A units that Im trying to get up and running. Thanks, Howard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4686	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request

I used Cal-Scale boards on mine http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/190-416 Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "holat88" <holat88@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A parts request > Hello group, > anyone have an idea as to where I might look for number boards for the > old Varney metal engine(s). > I have three A units that Im trying to get up and running. > Thanks, > Howard > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4687	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request

I got the same problem....... Some Varneys F-3's I want to be using....... Would the old Athearn PA number boards look about right? I'm thinking of modding some to fit the Varneys with a mounting plug and casting a bunch in a clear resin to be light-able. If not, I can make them from something else and cast. I have all the solid casting molding and casting materials on hand. I'm printing this out and will go through the basement for suitable 'home' masters tonight. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA On Dec 30, 2007, at 11:37 AM, holat88 wrote: > Hello group, > anyone have an idea as to where I might look for number boards for the > old Varney metal engine(s). > I have three A units that Im trying to get up and running.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4688	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request

Check Detail Associates also.   I don't know if they have cast ones, but we make the face and numerals for them.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: I used Cal-Scale boards on mine http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/190-416 Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "holat88" To: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A parts request > Hello group, > anyone have an idea as to where I might look for number boards for the > old Varney metal engine(s). > I have three A units that Im trying to get up and running. > Thanks, > Howard > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4689	From: Jim Snyder	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: My Christmas Present...to myself

Well, I'm back in The Mode. Every once in a while, I get nostalgic and... It all started when a friend gave me a couple shoe boxes full of ancient cars(...a veritable history of HO; I posted photos last year...) So, I needd something to pull 'em with- I was thinking of a nice Mantua Reading 4-6-2. But, then I realized that in the infancy of my version of this hobby- 1960-or so- I never ever saw any of the Varney engines- except for the "Economy" Ol' Lady and Casey Jones. To this day, I have never laid eyes on a Varney larger than those two! But that's changing! I went on an eBay spree last week and bought me a coupla 4-6-2s- one economy, one 'Super'- And the Super has one of the coveted V2 motors. There is also a 2-8-4. They oughta be here tomorrow or the next... I'm on the edge of my seat. So, I've decided to do a 5'X 9'- w/24" radius, simple oval plus a couple of passing sidings and some spurs. There'll be an engine terminal with a Revell engine house. I'll fudge with some DPM storefronts, but I have a number of v. old Campbell kits that I acquired from an amazing garage sale in Salinas, CA. 10 kits for $10! I'm also a-buildin' an MDC 4-4-2 and 2-6-2. I also found a built 4-4-2 on eBay that could be a contest-winner! $70 and I was the one and only bidder! If you told me it was a Balboa, I woulda thought it was too good for a Balboa! So, this'll be fun.I'm also gonna fudge a bit and use some of Woodland Scenic's scenery stuff. Life is, after all, still too short! Only thing I still want to find are some Ulrich and Silver Streak kits and maybe a Hobbytown RS2/3. And, while I'm at it... if I happen to run across some John English engines?? And heavyweights? Yup.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4690	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request

I suggested that to Chuck at DA years ago--suggesting that they be made in clear plastic with a "tail" on the back that would go into the interior.  I even have a set of the Scalelite boards I offered to use as a pattern.   I think I used Details West soft-metal boards on the ones I finished.   A thought:  how about a cooperative deal here.  I'll loan my Scalelite boards to someone who can make a mold from them.That person can return my originals with a few of the copies, and then sell sets of the copies to anyone else needing them...or getting first class--make the dies necessary to injection mold them.  This would be a natural for Bowser, as they seem to have most of the other Varney dies--wonder if they have the number boards.  I'd still like to see them in clear to illuminate them.  gj ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Hultberg To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A parts request Check Detail Associates also.   I don't know if they have cast ones, but we make the face and numerals for them.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut) Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: I used Cal-Scale boards on mine http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/190-416 Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "holat88" To: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A parts request > Hello group, > anyone have an idea as to where I might look for number boards for the > old Varney metal engine(s). > I have three A units that Im trying to get up and running. > Thanks, > Howard > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4691	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request

Mike--see my response to Fred--if you want to make copies, I can provide a set of Scalelite boards. glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A parts request >I got the same problem....... Some Varneys F-3's I want to be > using....... > > Would the old Athearn PA number boards look about right? I'm thinking > of modding some to fit the Varneys with a mounting plug and casting a > bunch in a clear resin to be light-able. > > If not, I can make them from something else and cast. I have all the > solid casting molding and casting materials on hand. > > I'm printing this out and will go through the basement for suitable > 'home' masters tonight. > > Best to ya' > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee Wi, USA > > > On Dec 30, 2007, at 11:37 AM, holat88 wrote: > >> Hello group, >> anyone have an idea as to where I might look for number boards for the >> old Varney metal engine(s). >> I have three A units that Im trying to get up and running. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4692	From: holat88	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Varney F-3 A boards

Thanks for the reply(s) from all. I have one A unit that has number boards that I think are Details West (see photos X 2) but I cant positively identify because it came with. I guess they look pretty good. I think you guys are on the right trail re; molding new ones and I'd be glad to pitch in on the project. Once again, Thanks ! Howard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4693	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards

thought on these number boards. Highliners makes F unit A and B body kits--with all the body details interchangeable. These are the bodies that Athearn uses in their Genesis series. Those units have lighted number boards. How about someone checking with Highliners and report back to us--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "holat88" <holat88@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > Thanks for the reply(s) from all. > I have one A unit that has number boards that I think are Details > West (see photos X 2) but I cant positively identify because it came > with. I guess they look pretty good. > I think you guys are on the right trail re; molding new ones and I'd > be glad to pitch in on the project. > Once again, Thanks ! > Howard > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4694	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Christmas Present...to myself

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Snyder" <joegideon@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:34 PM Subject: [vintageHO] My Christmas Present...to myself > Well, I'm back in The Mode. Every once in a while, I get nostalgic > and... It all started when a friend gave me a couple shoe boxes full > of ancient cars(...a veritable history of HO; I posted photos last > year...) So, I needd something to pull 'em with- I was thinking of a > nice Mantua Reading 4-6-2. But, then I realized that in the infancy > of my version of this hobby- 1960-or so- I never ever saw any of the > Varney engines- except for the "Economy" Ol' Lady and Casey Jones. To > this day, I have never laid eyes on a Varney larger than those two! > But that's changing! I went on an eBay spree last week and bought me > a coupla 4-6-2s- one economy, one 'Super'- And the Super has one of > the coveted V2 motors. There is also a 2-8-4. They oughta be here > tomorrow or the next... I'm on the edge of my seat. > > So, I've decided to do a 5'X 9'- w/24" radius, simple oval plus a > couple of passing sidings and some spurs. There'll be an engine > terminal with a Revell engine house. I'll fudge with some DPM > storefronts, but I have a number of v. old Campbell kits that I > acquired from an amazing garage sale in Salinas, CA. 10 kits for $10! > I'm also a-buildin' an MDC 4-4-2 and 2-6-2. I also found a built > 4-4-2 on eBay that could be a contest-winner! $70 and I was the one > and only bidder! If you told me it was a Balboa, I woulda thought it > was too good for a Balboa! > > So, this'll be fun.I'm also gonna fudge a bit and use some of Woodland > Scenic's scenery stuff. Life is, after all, still too short! Only > thing I still want to find are some Ulrich and Silver Streak kits and > maybe a Hobbytown RS2/3. And, while I'm at it... if I happen to run > across some John English engines?? And heavyweights? > > Yup. It's infectious, isn't it. I'm on the edge of my chair waiting for a half dozen or so cars I got on eBay, some old Athearn & Globe metal cars, one of which I've never seen before, a 40' "round roof" Athearn SINGLE DOOR box car, some HObbylines (including another quad hopper), and some Ulrich & Silver Streak. Anyone ever heard of "Middletown" WOOD streamliner kits? Bought one, the seller had two but didn't want to take a chance until I saw what they were. It should be here tomorrow or Wednesday. Question for the Varney mavens. I have a B&O twin hopper in black. I have coming the same car, same road number, but in box car red. One will have to be renumbered to operate (I use a card order system), is one or the other more "collectable"? That's MY Christmas present to myself. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4695	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards

Highliner has a set of "A Unit Detail Parts" 328-3001 in the new Walthers catalog. twent bucks ($19.95) but you get three sets of number boards (3 different styles), 2 pilots, doors, a number of different side panels, horns etc. Might be worth it. Don don.dellmann@... http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann Owner-Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO Co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > thought on these number boards. Highliners makes F unit A and B body > kits--with all the body details interchangeable. These are the bodies that > Athearn uses in their Genesis series. Those units have lighted number > boards. How about someone checking with Highliners and report back to > us--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "holat88" <holat88@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:56 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > > >> Thanks for the reply(s) from all. >> I have one A unit that has number boards that I think are Details >> West (see photos X 2) but I cant positively identify because it came >> with. I guess they look pretty good. >> I think you guys are on the right trail re; molding new ones and I'd >> be glad to pitch in on the project. >> Once again, Thanks ! >> Howard >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4696	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: I need help identifying a Japan import Lil Joe 0-4-0 with an (F) bui

Hi Guys! Happy Holidays and New Year! Well, I have another mystery! The title says it all? Any takers? I plan to list it, but I wish I knew who made it. I post pics to my first reply to this... and on the Vintage HO website. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4697	From: bslook@aol.com	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: I need help identifying a Japan import Lil Joe 0-4-0 with an ...

Hi Sean, it appears to be a B&O C-16 Docksider made by Sakura and imported by Pacific Fast mail (PFM). Early 1960's, cast Zamac model.   Brian See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4698	From: Garry Spear	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Christmas Present...to myself

FYI I just listed a Varney 2-8-4 on eBay. Just the thing for this group, i.e. it needs help. 4.99 to start. Garry spear On 12/30/07, Jim Snyder <joegideon@...> wrote: Well, I'm back in The Mode. Every once in a while, I get nostalgic and... It all started when a friend gave me a couple shoe boxes full of ancient cars(...a veritable history of HO; I posted photos last year...) So, I needd something to pull 'em with- I was thinking of a nice Mantua Reading 4-6-2. But, then I realized that in the infancy of my version of this hobby- 1960-or so- I never ever saw any of the Varney engines- except for the "Economy" Ol' Lady and Casey Jones. To this day, I have never laid eyes on a Varney larger than those two! But that's changing! I went on an eBay spree last week and bought me a coupla 4-6-2s- one economy, one 'Super'- And the Super has one of the coveted V2 motors. There is also a 2-8-4. They oughta be here tomorrow or the next... I'm on the edge of my seat. So, I've decided to do a 5'X 9'- w/24" radius, simple oval plus a couple of passing sidings and some spurs. There'll be an engine terminal with a Revell engine house. I'll fudge with some DPM storefronts, but I have a number of v. old Campbell kits that I acquired from an amazing garage sale in Salinas, CA. 10 kits for $10! I'm also a-buildin' an MDC 4-4-2 and 2-6-2. I also found a built 4-4-2 on eBay that could be a contest-winner! $70 and I was the one and only bidder! If you told me it was a Balboa, I woulda thought it was too good for a Balboa! So, this'll be fun.I'm also gonna fudge a bit and use some of Woodland Scenic's scenery stuff. Life is, after all, still too short! Only thing I still want to find are some Ulrich and Silver Streak kits and maybe a Hobbytown RS2/3. And, while I'm at it... if I happen to run across some John English engines?? And heavyweights? Yup.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4699	From: Larry	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: I need help identifying a Japan import Lil Joe 0-4-0 with an ...

I agree that it is a Sakura Model http://hoseeker.net/pacificfastmailinformation/PFM9thcatalog1964pg02.jpg Larry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bslook@... wrote: > > Hi Sean, it appears to be a B&O C-16 Docksider made by Sakura and imported > by Pacific Fast mail (PFM). Early 1960's, cast Zamac model. > > Brian > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4700	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards

I have a B unit kit--will see if instrx have parts diagrams--at least one of the three types is probably the early flat style--gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > Highliner has a set of "A Unit Detail Parts" 328-3001 in the new Walthers > catalog. twent bucks ($19.95) but you get three sets of number boards (3 > different styles), 2 pilots, doors, a number of different side panels, > horns > etc. > > Might be worth it. > > Don > > don.dellmann@... > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > Owner-Moderator > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > Co-owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:38 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > > >> thought on these number boards. Highliners makes F unit A and B body >> kits--with all the body details interchangeable. These are the bodies >> that >> Athearn uses in their Genesis series. Those units have lighted number >> boards. How about someone checking with Highliners and report back to >> us--gj >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "holat88" <holat88@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:56 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >> >> >>> Thanks for the reply(s) from all. >>> I have one A unit that has number boards that I think are Details >>> West (see photos X 2) but I cant positively identify because it came >>> with. I guess they look pretty good. >>> I think you guys are on the right trail re; molding new ones and I'd >>> be glad to pitch in on the project. >>> Once again, Thanks ! >>> Howard >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4701	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards

Actually looks like two different sizes of the flat style http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/328-3001 Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >I have a B unit kit--will see if instrx have parts diagrams--at least one >of > the three types is probably the early flat style--gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:49 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > > >> Highliner has a set of "A Unit Detail Parts" 328-3001 in the new >> Walthers >> catalog. twent bucks ($19.95) but you get three sets of number boards (3 >> different styles), 2 pilots, doors, a number of different side panels, >> horns >> etc. >> >> Might be worth it. >> >> Don >> >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> Owner-Moderator >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> Co-owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >> >> >>> thought on these number boards. Highliners makes F unit A and B body >>> kits--with all the body details interchangeable. These are the bodies >>> that >>> Athearn uses in their Genesis series. Those units have lighted number >>> boards. How about someone checking with Highliners and report back to >>> us--gj >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "holat88" <holat88@...> >>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:56 PM >>> Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >>> >>> >>>> Thanks for the reply(s) from all. >>>> I have one A unit that has number boards that I think are Details >>>> West (see photos X 2) but I cant positively identify because it came >>>> with. I guess they look pretty good. >>>> I think you guys are on the right trail re; molding new ones and I'd >>>> be glad to pitch in on the project. >>>> Once again, Thanks ! >>>> Howard >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4702	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards

That would seem rather expensive--$20 to get one usable pair of the angled boards-- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > Actually looks like two different sizes of the flat style > > http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/328-3001 > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:30 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > > >>I have a B unit kit--will see if instrx have parts diagrams--at least one >>of >> the three types is probably the early flat style--gj >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >> >> >>> Highliner has a set of "A Unit Detail Parts" 328-3001 in the new >>> Walthers >>> catalog. twent bucks ($19.95) but you get three sets of number boards >>> (3 >>> different styles), 2 pilots, doors, a number of different side panels, >>> horns >>> etc. >>> >>> Might be worth it. >>> >>> Don >>> >>> don.dellmann@... >>> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >>> Owner-Moderator >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >>> Co-owner >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> >>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:38 PM >>> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >>> >>> >>>> thought on these number boards. Highliners makes F unit A and B body >>>> kits--with all the body details interchangeable. These are the bodies >>>> that >>>> Athearn uses in their Genesis series. Those units have lighted number >>>> boards. How about someone checking with Highliners and report back to >>>> us--gj >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "holat88" <holat88@...> >>>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:56 PM >>>> Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >>>> >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the reply(s) from all. >>>>> I have one A unit that has number boards that I think are Details >>>>> West (see photos X 2) but I cant positively identify because it came >>>>> with. I guess they look pretty good. >>>>> I think you guys are on the right trail re; molding new ones and I'd >>>>> be glad to pitch in on the project. >>>>> Once again, Thanks ! >>>>> Howard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4703	From: curmudgeon	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards

I picked up from my brother a junk Athearn A shell, and will be cutting out the boards to fit one of my Varneys. I'll let you know how it works out. Dave > That would seem rather expensive--$20 to get one usable pair of the angled > boards-- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 5:01 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > > > > Actually looks like two different sizes of the flat style > > > > http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/328-3001 > > > > Don > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > > > > > >>I have a B unit kit--will see if instrx have parts diagrams--at least one > >>of > >> the three types is probably the early flat style--gj > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:49 PM > >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> > >> > >>> Highliner has a set of "A Unit Detail Parts" 328-3001 in the new > >>> Walthers > >>> catalog. twent bucks ($19.95) but you get three sets of number boards > >>> (3 > >>> different styles), 2 pilots, doors, a number of different side panels, > >>> horns > >>> etc. > >>> > >>> Might be worth it. > >>> > >>> Don > >>> > >>> don.dellmann@... > >>> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > >>> Owner-Moderator > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >>> Co-owner > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> > >>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:38 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >>> > >>> > >>>> thought on these number boards. Highliners makes F unit A and B body > >>>> kits--with all the body details interchangeable. These are the bodies > >>>> that > >>>> Athearn uses in their Genesis series. Those units have lighted number > >>>> boards. How about someone checking with Highliners and report back to > >>>> us--gj > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "holat88" <holat88@...> > >>>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:56 PM > >>>> Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Thanks for the reply(s) from all. > >>>>> I have one A unit that has number boards that I think are Details > >>>>> West (see photos X 2) but I cant positively identify because it came > >>>>> with. I guess they look pretty good. > >>>>> I think you guys are on the right trail re; molding new ones and I'd > >>>>> be glad to pitch in on the project. > >>>>> Once again, Thanks ! > >>>>> Howard > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4704	From: Glenn476	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards

The contours of the Athearn boards is not good--ever since they "simplified" the Globe shell by including the number boards on it. The front edges had to be turned such that the dies could be pulled apart. Look downward at a "classic" Athearn, and compare to one of the newer "Genesis" series. gj ----- Original Message ----- From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 4:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney F-3 A boards >I picked up from my brother a junk Athearn A shell, and will be > cutting out the boards to fit one of my Varneys. > I'll let you know how it works out. > Dave > >> That would seem rather expensive--$20 to get one usable pair of > the angled >> boards-- >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 5:01 AM >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >> >> >> > Actually looks like two different sizes of the flat style >> > >> > http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/328-3001 >> > >> > Don >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> >> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:30 AM >> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >> > >> > >> >>I have a B unit kit--will see if instrx have parts diagrams--at > least one >> >>of >> >> the three types is probably the early flat style--gj >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> >> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:49 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >> >> >> >> >> >>> Highliner has a set of "A Unit Detail Parts" 328-3001 in the > new >> >>> Walthers >> >>> catalog. twent bucks ($19.95) but you get three sets of > number boards >> >>> (3 >> >>> different styles), 2 pilots, doors, a number of different side > panels, >> >>> horns >> >>> etc. >> >>> >> >>> Might be worth it. >> >>> >> >>> Don >> >>> >> >>> don.dellmann@... >> >>> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann >> >>> Owner-Moderator >> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics >> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> >>> Co-owner >> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> >> >>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:38 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> thought on these number boards. Highliners makes F unit A > and B body >> >>>> kits--with all the body details interchangeable. These are > the bodies >> >>>> that >> >>>> Athearn uses in their Genesis series. Those units have > lighted number >> >>>> boards. How about someone checking with Highliners and > report back to >> >>>> us--gj >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> From: "holat88" <holat88@...> >> >>>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:56 PM >> >>>> Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Thanks for the reply(s) from all. >> >>>>> I have one A unit that has number boards that I think are > Details >> >>>>> West (see photos X 2) but I cant positively identify because > it came >> >>>>> with. I guess they look pretty good. >> >>>>> I think you guys are on the right trail re; molding new ones > and I'd >> >>>>> be glad to pitch in on the project. >> >>>>> Once again, Thanks ! >> >>>>> Howard >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4705	From: holat88	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards

Hi Group, I managed to wrangle loose a pair of Details West boards and a MIB Varney un-assembled kit with original boards from a fellow modeler/collector to take some reference photos (as posted). IMHO the Varney boards look rather small against the Details West items. Hmmm..... Cheers and happy New Year to all, Howard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn476" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > The contours of the Athearn boards is not good--ever since they "simplified" > the Globe shell by including the number boards on it. The front edges had to > be turned such that the dies could be pulled apart. Look downward at a > "classic" Athearn, and compare to one of the newer "Genesis" series. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 4:09 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney F-3 A boards > > > >I picked up from my brother a junk Athearn A shell, and will be > > cutting out the boards to fit one of my Varneys. > > I'll let you know how it works out. > > Dave > > > >> That would seem rather expensive--$20 to get one usable pair of > > the angled > >> boards-- > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 5:01 AM > >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> > >> > >> > Actually looks like two different sizes of the flat style > >> > > >> > http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/328-3001 > >> > > >> > Don > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@> > >> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:30 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> > > >> > > >> >>I have a B unit kit--will see if instrx have parts diagrams-- at > > least one > >> >>of > >> >> the three types is probably the early flat style--gj > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > >> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:49 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>> Highliner has a set of "A Unit Detail Parts" 328-3001 in the > > new > >> >>> Walthers > >> >>> catalog. twent bucks ($19.95) but you get three sets of > > number boards > >> >>> (3 > >> >>> different styles), 2 pilots, doors, a number of different side > > panels, > >> >>> horns > >> >>> etc. > >> >>> > >> >>> Might be worth it. > >> >>> > >> >>> Don > >> >>> > >> >>> don.dellmann@ > >> >>> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > >> >>> Owner-Moderator > >> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > >> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> >>> Co-owner > >> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>> From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@> > >> >>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:38 PM > >> >>> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>> thought on these number boards. Highliners makes F unit A > > and B body > >> >>>> kits--with all the body details interchangeable. These are > > the bodies > >> >>>> that > >> >>>> Athearn uses in their Genesis series. Those units have > > lighted number > >> >>>> boards. How about someone checking with Highliners and > > report back to > >> >>>> us--gj > >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>>> From: "holat88" <holat88@> > >> >>>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:56 PM > >> >>>> Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>>> Thanks for the reply(s) from all. > >> >>>>> I have one A unit that has number boards that I think are > > Details > >> >>>>> West (see photos X 2) but I cant positively identify because > > it came > >> >>>>> with. I guess they look pretty good. > >> >>>>> I think you guys are on the right trail re; molding new ones > > and I'd > >> >>>>> be glad to pitch in on the project. > >> >>>>> Once again, Thanks ! > >> >>>>> Howard > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 4706	From: curmudgeon	Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards

That's why I'm cutting them out and using the file to "re-contour" the edge! > The contours of the Athearn boards is not good--ever since they "simplified" > the Globe shell by including the number boards on it. The front edges had to > be turned such that the dies could be pulled apart. Look downward at a > "classic" Athearn, and compare to one of the newer "Genesis" series. gj > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 4:09 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney F-3 A boards > > > >I picked up from my brother a junk Athearn A shell, and will be > > cutting out the boards to fit one of my Varneys. > > I'll let you know how it works out. > > Dave > > > >> That would seem rather expensive--$20 to get one usable pair of > > the angled > >> boards-- > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 5:01 AM > >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> > >> > >> > Actually looks like two different sizes of the flat style > >> > > >> > http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/328-3001 > >> > > >> > Don > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@> > >> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:30 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> > > >> > > >> >>I have a B unit kit--will see if instrx have parts diagrams-- at > > least one > >> >>of > >> >> the three types is probably the early flat style--gj > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > >> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:49 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>> Highliner has a set of "A Unit Detail Parts" 328-3001 in the > > new > >> >>> Walthers > >> >>> catalog. twent bucks ($19.95) but you get three sets of > > number boards > >> >>> (3 > >> >>> different styles), 2 pilots, doors, a number of different side > > panels, > >> >>> horns > >> >>> etc. > >> >>> > >> >>> Might be worth it. > >> >>> > >> >>> Don > >> >>> > >> >>> don.dellmann@ > >> >>> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann > >> >>> Owner-Moderator > >> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics > >> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> >>> Co-owner > >> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>> From: "Glenn476" <glenn476@> > >> >>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:38 PM > >> >>> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>> thought on these number boards. Highliners makes F unit A > > and B body > >> >>>> kits--with all the body details interchangeable. These are > > the bodies > >> >>>> that > >> >>>> Athearn uses in their Genesis series. Those units have > > lighted number > >> >>>> boards. How about someone checking with Highliners and > > report back to > >> >>>> us--gj > >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>>> From: "holat88" <holat88@> > >> >>>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:56 PM > >> >>>> Subject: [vintageHO] Varney F-3 A boards > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>>> Thanks for the reply(s) from all. > >> >>>>> I have one A unit that has number boards that I think are > > Details > >> >>>>> West (see photos X 2) but I cant positively identify because > > it came > >> >>>>> with. I guess they look pretty good. > >> >>>>> I think you guys are on the right trail re; molding new ones > > and I'd > >> >>>>> be glad to pitch in on the project. > >> >>>>> Once again, Thanks ! > >> >>>>> Howard > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >