Messages in vintageHO group. Page 1 of 1.

Group: vintageHO Message: 1905 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1906 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1907 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1908 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: What I did today.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1909 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: What I did today.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1910 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1911 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Number Boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 1912 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Number Boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 1913 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1914 From: oahurailway Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1915 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 1/2/2007
Subject: Has anyone been thru this?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1916 From: jerrygart5 Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: Has anyone been thru this?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1917 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Latest addition
Group: vintageHO Message: 1918 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
Group: vintageHO Message: 1919 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
Group: vintageHO Message: 1920 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1921 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
Group: vintageHO Message: 1922 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 1/3/2007
Subject: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 1923 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 1924 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
Group: vintageHO Message: 1925 From: John Hagen Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
Group: vintageHO Message: 1926 From: Lance Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1927 From: oahurailway Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1928 From: oahurailway Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1929 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1930 From: oahurailway Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1931 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: 6V motor, was LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1932 From: Glenn Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 1933 From: Glenn Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 1934 From: Glenn Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1935 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1936 From: dhopf1 Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1937 From: Lance Russwurm Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1938 From: oahurailway Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1939 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 1940 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 1941 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
Group: vintageHO Message: 1942 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
Group: vintageHO Message: 1943 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 1944 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
Group: vintageHO Message: 1945 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/4/2007
Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 1946 From: Lance Russwurm Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1947 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
Group: vintageHO Message: 1948 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Walthers Gon
Group: vintageHO Message: 1949 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1950 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1951 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1952 From: Lance Russwurm Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1953 From: oahurailway Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1954 From: oahurailway Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1955 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Gon
Group: vintageHO Message: 1956 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1957 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
Group: vintageHO Message: 1958 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Gon
Group: vintageHO Message: 1959 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/5/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1960 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: More additions to the roster
Group: vintageHO Message: 1961 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1962 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 1963 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 1964 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/6/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 1965 From: oahurailway Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 1966 From: oahurailway Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 1967 From: John Barlow Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: The "Camelot" of OO...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1968 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1969 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1970 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1971 From: Larry Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1972 From: John Barlow Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1973 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1974 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 1975 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1976 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1977 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1978 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1979 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1980 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO Message: 1981 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 1982 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO Message: 1983 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1984 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1985 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO Message: 1986 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1987 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1988 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Old TriAng.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1989 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1990 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1991 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1992 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1993 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1994 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1995 From: John Hagen Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1996 From: John Barlow Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge...and Other Scales/Gauges
Group: vintageHO Message: 1997 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1998 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 1999 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2000 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2001 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2002 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2003 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2004 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2005 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: The "Camelot" of OO...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2006 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2007 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2008 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO Message: 2009 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: General Questions.......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2010 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2011 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2012 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO Message: 2013 From: John Barlow Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2014 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2015 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2016 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2017 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2018 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2019 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2020 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2021 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO Message: 2022 From: John Barlow Date: 1/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2023 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2024 From: Glenn Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2025 From: Glenn Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
Group: vintageHO Message: 2026 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2027 From: Glenn Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
Group: vintageHO Message: 2028 From: Glenn Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2029 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2030 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2031 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/8/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2032 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2033 From: oljoeoh Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2034 From: Glenn Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2035 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2036 From: Glenn Date: 1/9/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2037 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2038 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2039 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2040 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2041 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2042 From: Paul Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Looking for parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 2043 From: Glenn Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2044 From: Glenn Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: 00 gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2045 From: Glenn Date: 1/10/2007
Subject: Re: Q gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 2046 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/11/2007
Subject: Newest additions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2047 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/11/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2048 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/12/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2049 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/12/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2050 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/12/2007
Subject: Re: Newest additions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2051 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/14/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2052 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2053 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2054 From: John Barlow Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2055 From: sean naylor Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2056 From: oahurailway Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2057 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2058 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2059 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2060 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2061 From: oahurailway Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2062 From: sean naylor Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2063 From: sean naylor Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2064 From: sean naylor Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2065 From: John Hagen Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2066 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2067 From: sean naylor Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2068 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2069 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2070 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2071 From: oahurailway Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2072 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2073 From: JGE Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 2074 From: rcjge Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Has anyone been thru this?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2075 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2076 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2077 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 2078 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2079 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2080 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2081 From: Glenn Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2082 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2083 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2084 From: oahurailway Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2085 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2086 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: jodanjackkayla , I see a photo with a question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2087 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2088 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2089 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2090 From: oahurailway Date: 1/17/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2091 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2092 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2093 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging - Att'n curmudgeon
Group: vintageHO Message: 2094 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2095 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2096 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2097 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2098 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2099 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: Belonging
Group: vintageHO Message: 2100 From: jodanjackkayla Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Re: jodanjackkayla , I see a photo with a question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2101 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/18/2007
Subject: Rescued Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2102 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/19/2007
Subject: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2103 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 1/19/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2104 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/19/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2105 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2106 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2107 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2108 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2109 From: John Hagen Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2110 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Soldering brass
Group: vintageHO Message: 2111 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2112 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: More cars running.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2113 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2114 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: More cars running.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2115 From: Dale Smith Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 2116 From: oahurailway Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 2117 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 2118 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: More cars running.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2119 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2120 From: Dale Smith Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 2121 From: John Hagen Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2122 From: Tom Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Skeleton Log Car Plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 2123 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2124 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 2125 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2126 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/20/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2127 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2128 From: oahurailway Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 2129 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 2130 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2131 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More cars running.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2132 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2133 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Skeleton Log Car Plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 2134 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: More Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2135 From: John Hagen Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2136 From: John Hagen Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2137 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2138 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2139 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2140 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2141 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2142 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2143 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2144 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2145 From: Tom Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Skeleton Log Car Plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 2146 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2147 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2148 From: Askerberg Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: My stuff posted
Group: vintageHO Message: 2149 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] My stuff posted
Group: vintageHO Message: 2150 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2151 From: John Hagen Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: My stuff posted
Group: vintageHO Message: 2152 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2153 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2154 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2155 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2156 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2157 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2158 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2159 From: ANDREW A GIRARD JR Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2160 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2161 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 2162 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2163 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting....
Group: vintageHO Message: 2164 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2165 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2166 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2167 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2168 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2169 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2170 From: John Hagen Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2171 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2172 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2173 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2174 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: More Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2175 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2176 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2177 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2178 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2179 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2180 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2181 From: Garry Spear Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2182 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2183 From: oahurailway Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 2184 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2185 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/21/2007
Subject: Athearn GEEP questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2186 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: [Fwd: 1954 Mantua]
Group: vintageHO Message: 2187 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2188 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2189 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2190 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2191 From: sean naylor Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2192 From: busgrouches Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Shay Parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 2193 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2194 From: Garry Spear Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2195 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Lead Rot
Group: vintageHO Message: 2196 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2197 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2198 From: John Hagen Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2199 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2200 From: John Hagen Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2201 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2202 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2203 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2204 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Vintage HO Scale Red Ball Kit INFO Wanted #4327
Group: vintageHO Message: 2205 From: takefive247 Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2206 From: jay matz Date: 1/22/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2207 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2208 From: John Hagen Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2209 From: William Nielsen Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2210 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2211 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2212 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2213 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2214 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2215 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2216 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2217 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2218 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2219 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2220 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2221 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2222 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2223 From: sean naylor Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2224 From: sean naylor Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2225 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Old-Rare-Obscure
Group: vintageHO Message: 2226 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2227 From: John Hagen Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2228 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2229 From: sean naylor Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2230 From: sean naylor Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2231 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2232 From: John Barlow Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2233 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2234 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2235 From: John Hagen Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2236 From: John Hagen Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2237 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 1/23/2007
Subject: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2238 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2239 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2240 From: sean naylor Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2241 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2242 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2243 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2244 From: takefive247 Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2245 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO Message: 2246 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2247 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2248 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2249 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2250 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO Message: 2251 From: John Hagen Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2252 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2253 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage and Prototype (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2254 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2255 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2256 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2257 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: MORE Junque
Group: vintageHO Message: 2258 From: bitlerisvj Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2259 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO Message: 2260 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2261 From: sean naylor Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2262 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO Message: 2263 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO Message: 2264 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO Message: 2265 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2266 From: John Barlow Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO Message: 2267 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2268 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO Message: 2269 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO Message: 2270 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/25/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO Message: 2271 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO Message: 2272 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2273 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2274 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO Message: 2275 From: John Barlow Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2276 From: John Barlow Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2277 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2278 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2279 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2280 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2281 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/26/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2282 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2283 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2284 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2285 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2286 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: 1954 Booster
Group: vintageHO Message: 2287 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2288 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: "In Honor of Number 1" (re: 1954 Booster)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2289 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO Message: 2290 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO Message: 2291 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2292 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO Message: 2293 From: John Hagen Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: 1954 Booster
Group: vintageHO Message: 2294 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 2295 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 2296 From: sottguy Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Recent J A English acquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2297 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: 1954 Booster
Group: vintageHO Message: 2298 From: jim gerstley Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2299 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2300 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2301 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2302 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2303 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2304 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2305 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2306 From: Martin Rosenfeld Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO Message: 2307 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO Message: 2308 From: Don RIley Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO Message: 2309 From: Don RIley Date: 1/27/2007
Subject: Re: writing in red was Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO Message: 2310 From: Don RIley Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: people paying TOO much for kits on ebay wasHow rare are wooden
Group: vintageHO Message: 2311 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2312 From: jay matz Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2313 From: jay matz Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2314 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO Message: 2315 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: people paying TOO much for kits on ebay wasHow rare are wooden
Group: vintageHO Message: 2316 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2317 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2318 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO Message: 2319 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2320 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2321 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2322 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2323 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2324 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2325 From: jim gerstley Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO Message: 2326 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2327 From: Tom Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Help identifying these cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 2328 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2329 From: sean naylor Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2330 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Help identifying these cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 2331 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2332 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
Group: vintageHO Message: 2333 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Recent J A English acquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2334 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2335 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2336 From: sean naylor Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2337 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2338 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO Message: 2339 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Recent J A English acquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2340 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO Message: 2341 From: nycrrmitch Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO Message: 2342 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rail to the harbor
Group: vintageHO Message: 2343 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2344 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rail to the harbor
Group: vintageHO Message: 2345 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2346 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2347 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2348 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO Message: 2349 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2350 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2351 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2352 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2353 From: Garrett and Libby Rea Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO Message: 2354 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2355 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2356 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO Message: 2357 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2358 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO Message: 2359 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2360 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: --- In scalecentral@yahoogroups.com, "n9lge" wrote:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2361 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO Message: 2362 From: sean naylor Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2363 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2364 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
Group: vintageHO Message: 2365 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: --- In scalecentral@yahoogroups.com, "n9lge" wrote:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2366 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
Group: vintageHO Message: 2367 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
Group: vintageHO Message: 2368 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2369 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
Group: vintageHO Message: 2370 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 1/28/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO Message: 2371 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2372 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
Group: vintageHO Message: 2373 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2374 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2375 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2376 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
Group: vintageHO Message: 2377 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO Message: 2378 From: sean naylor Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2379 From: sean naylor Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO Message: 2380 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
Group: vintageHO Message: 2381 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2382 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2383 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2384 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2385 From: pvande1@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2386 From: wallagus Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2387 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2388 From: John Barlow Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
Group: vintageHO Message: 2389 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2390 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2391 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2392 From: John Barlow Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2393 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
Group: vintageHO Message: 2394 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2395 From: jay matz Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2396 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
Group: vintageHO Message: 2397 From: jay matz Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2398 From: John Barlow Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost
Group: vintageHO Message: 2399 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2400 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2401 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2402 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2403 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2404 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost
Group: vintageHO Message: 2405 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2406 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2407 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2408 From: Randy Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
Group: vintageHO Message: 2409 From: John Barlow Date: 1/29/2007
Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
Group: vintageHO Message: 2410 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2411 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2412 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2413 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
Group: vintageHO Message: 2414 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2415 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost
Group: vintageHO Message: 2416 From: John Barlow Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Parallel Thinking in the Past..
Group: vintageHO Message: 2417 From: sean naylor Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2418 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2419 From: rcjge Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2420 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2421 From: jay matz Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2422 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2423 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2424 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2425 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2426 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Cover photo contest.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2427 From: jay matz Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2428 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2429 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2430 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2431 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2432 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 1/30/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreckproof train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2433 From: Don RIley Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2434 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2435 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2436 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Wheelsets
Group: vintageHO Message: 2437 From: oljoeoh Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2438 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2439 From: rcjge Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2440 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2441 From: oahurailway Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2442 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2443 From: Ian Garton Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2444 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2445 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2446 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2447 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2448 From: oahurailway Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2449 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO Message: 2450 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2451 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2452 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO Message: 2453 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO Message: 2454 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO Message: 2455 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Another "rescue"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2456 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: New poll for vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 2457 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Another "rescue"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2458 From: John Hagen Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: new poll for VintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 2459 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2460 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2461 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2462 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2463 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2464 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2465 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2466 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2467 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2468 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2469 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2470 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2471 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2472 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2473 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2474 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2475 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2476 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2477 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2478 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2479 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2480 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2481 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2482 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/1/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2483 From: John Barlow Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2484 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2485 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2486 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2487 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO Message: 2488 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2489 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO Message: 2490 From: jim gerstley Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: dry brush vs spray paint wood model passenger cars-La Belle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2491 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO Message: 2492 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO Message: 2493 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2494 From: oahurailway Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2495 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2496 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
Group: vintageHO Message: 2497 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2498 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2499 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO Message: 2500 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO Message: 2501 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Several questions
Group: vintageHO Message: 2502 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: new poll for VintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 2503 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2504 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 2505 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2506 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 2507 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2508 From: John Barlow Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 2509 From: John Barlow Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2510 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/2/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2511 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2512 From: John Barlow Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2513 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Back to the box
Group: vintageHO Message: 2514 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 2515 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2516 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2517 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2518 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2519 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2520 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2521 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2522 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2523 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2524 From: John Hagen Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2525 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2526 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2527 From: John Barlow Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2528 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2529 From: John Barlow Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2530 From: John Hagen Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2531 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2532 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2533 From: John Hagen Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
Group: vintageHO Message: 2534 From: Don RIley Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: open door Athearn reefers. was More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 2535 From: Don RIley Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2536 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2537 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2538 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2539 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: More eBay madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 2540 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2541 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: dry brush vs spray paint wood model passenger cars-LaBelle
Group: vintageHO Message: 2542 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Enlisting the help of a two year old...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2543 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2544 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2545 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Enlisting the help of a two year old...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2546 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2547 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2548 From: John Barlow Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2549 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2550 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/3/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2551 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2552 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2553 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2554 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Another question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2555 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2556 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2557 From: Neal Rammacher Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2558 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2559 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2560 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2561 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2562 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2563 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2564 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2565 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2566 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2567 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: vintageHO Message: 2568 From: bitlerisvj Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2569 From: John Hagen Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2570 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2571 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2572 From: Mike Sloane Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2573 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2574 From: John Hagen Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2575 From: John Hagen Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2576 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2577 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
Group: vintageHO Message: 2578 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2579 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2580 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2581 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2582 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Mannor Gon
Group: vintageHO Message: 2583 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Mannor Gon
Group: vintageHO Message: 2584 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Mannor Gon
Group: vintageHO Message: 2585 From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Re: Mannor Gon
Group: vintageHO Message: 2586 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/5/2007
Subject: Fwd: WGH on Tour in Portland, OR -- February 17-18, 2007
Group: vintageHO Message: 2587 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/6/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2588 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/6/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2589 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/7/2007
Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2590 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/7/2007
Subject: Oddball Geep
Group: vintageHO Message: 2591 From: joeandrews1 Date: 2/8/2007
Subject: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 2592 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 2/8/2007
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 2593 From: oahurailway Date: 2/8/2007
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 2594 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/9/2007
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 2595 From: sean naylor Date: 2/9/2007
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 2596 From: Askerberg Date: 2/9/2007
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 2597 From: sean naylor Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2598 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2599 From: oahurailway Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2600 From: oahurailway Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2601 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/10/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2602 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2603 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2604 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2605 From: sean naylor Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2606 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/11/2007
Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2607 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/12/2007
Subject: New Stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2608 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/12/2007
Subject: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2609 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 2/12/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2610 From: Don RIley Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2611 From: Don RIley Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2612 From: John Barlow Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2613 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Manor car kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 2614 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: New Stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 2615 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2616 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2617 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2618 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2619 From: John Hagen Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2620 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2621 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Manor car kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 2622 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2623 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2624 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2625 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2626 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2627 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2628 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2629 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2630 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Fwd: THIS WEEKEND!!! -- WGH on Tour in Portland, OR
Group: vintageHO Message: 2631 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2632 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: New Finds
Group: vintageHO Message: 2633 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2634 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2635 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" Not So New Haven F
Group: vintageHO Message: 2636 From: John Barlow Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2637 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2638 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Branford Hobbies New Haven Units
Group: vintageHO Message: 2639 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 2640 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO Message: 2641 From: John Barlow Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 2642 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 2643 From: Don RIley Date: 2/13/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2644 From: John Barlow Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2645 From: John Hagen Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2646 From: John Barlow Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2647 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2648 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2649 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: Prices
Group: vintageHO Message: 2650 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO Message: 2651 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2652 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 2/14/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2653 From: bitlerisvj Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO Message: 2654 From: John Hagen Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO Message: 2655 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO Message: 2656 From: John Hagen Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO Message: 2657 From: Mark DeGroat Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO Message: 2658 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO Message: 2659 From: pvande1@comcast.net Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO Message: 2660 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO Message: 2661 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2662 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 2663 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO Message: 2664 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO Message: 2665 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 2666 From: sean naylor Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2667 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Athearn dismal parts needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2668 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2669 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO Message: 2670 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/15/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
Group: vintageHO Message: 2671 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2672 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2673 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2674 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2675 From: John Hagen Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2676 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2677 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2678 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2679 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Doesanyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2680 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2681 From: Rick Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: OT: Posting
Group: vintageHO Message: 2682 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2683 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2684 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2685 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2686 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2687 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2688 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: OT: Posting
Group: vintageHO Message: 2689 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/16/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2690 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: OT: Posting
Group: vintageHO Message: 2691 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2692 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: OT: Posting
Group: vintageHO Message: 2693 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2694 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2695 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2696 From: takefive247 Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2697 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
Group: vintageHO Message: 2698 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2699 From: jay matz Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2700 From: Martin Rosenfeld Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2701 From: John Barlow Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2702 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2703 From: John Hagen Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2704 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2705 From: Dst8596587@aol.com Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2706 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2707 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 2708 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2709 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2710 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2711 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2712 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2713 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2714 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2715 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2716 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2717 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2718 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2719 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2720 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2721 From: John Hagen Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2722 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2723 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2724 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2725 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2726 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO Message: 2727 From: John Hagen Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO Message: 2728 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2729 From: jay matz Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO Message: 2730 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Mystery Mohawk
Group: vintageHO Message: 2731 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO Message: 2732 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 2733 From: John Barlow Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2734 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO Message: 2735 From: John Barlow Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: - I Think...B&O
Group: vintageHO Message: 2736 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO Message: 2737 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk
Group: vintageHO Message: 2738 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/17/2007
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 2739 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO Message: 2740 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO Message: 2741 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
Group: vintageHO Message: 2742 From: Dst8596587@aol.com Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2743 From: sean naylor Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2744 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: new (temp? argh) home pic. (&, Central Valley data wanted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2745 From: takefive247 Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2746 From: John Hagen Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2747 From: takefive247 Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2748 From: takefive247 Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2749 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2750 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO Message: 2751 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2752 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk
Group: vintageHO Message: 2753 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
Group: vintageHO Message: 2754 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
Group: vintageHO Message: 2755 From: John Hagen Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2756 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/18/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2757 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/19/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2758 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2759 From: sean naylor Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2760 From: John Barlow Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2761 From: erieberk Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2762 From: John Hagen Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2763 From: John Barlow Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2764 From: John Barlow Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua? And a Weird Question...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2765 From: John Hagen Date: 2/20/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2766 From: Neal Rammacher Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2767 From: John Hagen Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2768 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Model Railroader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2769 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2770 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2771 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2772 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2773 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2774 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2775 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2776 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2777 From: John Hagen Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2778 From: John Hagen Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2779 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2780 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2781 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2782 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2783 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/21/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2784 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2785 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2786 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930
Group: vintageHO Message: 2787 From: John Barlow Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO Message: 2788 From: John Hagen Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO Message: 2789 From: Donald Dellmann Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Moderator pronouncement ( was RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silve
Group: vintageHO Message: 2790 From: Donald Dellmann Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Moderator pronouncement ( was RE: [vintageHO] 1934 version of Silve
Group: vintageHO Message: 2791 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2792 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: Moderator pronouncement
Group: vintageHO Message: 2793 From: Neal Rammacher Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2794 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2795 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: Moderator pronouncement
Group: vintageHO Message: 2796 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Fwd: Re: HO-811 Power Truck
Group: vintageHO Message: 2797 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO Message: 2798 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: Moderator pronouncement
Group: vintageHO Message: 2799 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO Message: 2800 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2801 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO Message: 2802 From: ourbaja Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2803 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2804 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copyi
Group: vintageHO Message: 2805 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: 1934 version of Silver Streak (was: 1930 mantua?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2806 From: Bill Daley Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2807 From: sean naylor Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2808 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???
Group: vintageHO Message: 2809 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???
Group: vintageHO Message: 2810 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2811 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2812 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2813 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2814 From: sean naylor Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2815 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Was this cast in USA?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2816 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: new (temp? argh) home pic. (&, Central Valley data wanted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 2817 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???
Group: vintageHO Message: 2818 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???
Group: vintageHO Message: 2819 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2820 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2821 From: Bill Daley Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2822 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2823 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2824 From: railwaymodeler Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Any Good Pictorial Online Guides to Vintage HO Scale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2825 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???
Group: vintageHO Message: 2826 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???
Group: vintageHO Message: 2827 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???
Group: vintageHO Message: 2828 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Any Good Pictorial Online Guides to Vintage HO Scale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2829 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2830 From: sean naylor Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of CV truck Copying???
Group: vintageHO Message: 2831 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2832 From: oahurailway Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: Any Good Pictorial Online Guides to Vintage HO Scale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2833 From: John Hagen Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2834 From: John Hagen Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???
Group: vintageHO Message: 2835 From: Martin Rosenfeld Date: 2/23/2007
Subject: Another Central Valley Question...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2836 From: jay matz Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2837 From: John Barlow Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2838 From: jim gerstley Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2839 From: Phillip VanderHeyden Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2840 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2841 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2842 From: John Hagen Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2843 From: jay matz Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2844 From: jay matz Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2845 From: Martin Rosenfeld Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2846 From: Jay Matz Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 2847 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: CV secrets: laquer insulation...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2848 From: Bill Daley Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2849 From: oahurailway Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 2850 From: Bill Daley Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2851 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: : The All-Inclusive Prohibition of Copying???
Group: vintageHO Message: 2852 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2853 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2854 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2855 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2856 From: Phillip VanderHeyden Date: 2/24/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2857 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2858 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2859 From: Bill Daley Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2860 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2861 From: Bill Daley Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2862 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2863 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest
Group: vintageHO Message: 2864 From: James B Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Model Train Show, March 11th , Cedarburg, WI
Group: vintageHO Message: 2865 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2866 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: DC91 motors and DCC.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2867 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2868 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2869 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2870 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2871 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2872 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2873 From: wallagus Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Old open frame motors
Group: vintageHO Message: 2874 From: jay matz Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Old open frame motors
Group: vintageHO Message: 2875 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2876 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2877 From: railwaymodeler Date: 2/25/2007
Subject: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2878 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2879 From: Jay Matz Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Mantua 2-8-2
Group: vintageHO Message: 2880 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2881 From: jay matz Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2882 From: rcjge Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2883 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2884 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2885 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2886 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2887 From: rcjge Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2888 From: oahurailway Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2889 From: oahurailway Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2890 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2891 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2892 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2893 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2894 From: railwaymodeler Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2895 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2896 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2897 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2898 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2899 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2900 From: jay matz Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2901 From: erieberk Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2902 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2903 From: erieberk Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2904 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2905 From: erieberk Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2906 From: erieberk Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2907 From: erieberk Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2908 From: erieberk Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2909 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/26/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2910 From: erieberk Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2911 From: erieberk Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2912 From: erieberk Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2913 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2914 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2915 From: erieberk Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2916 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2917 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: Proper protocol for offering equipt. for sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 2918 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2919 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2920 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2921 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2922 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2923 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Question about Varney Short C
Group: vintageHO Message: 2924 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2925 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2926 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/27/2007
Subject: Re: The High and mighty who slang Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2927 From: trainnut2441 Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: HO Scale Collectors and History SIG /Greenberg Guide to Varney Trai
Group: vintageHO Message: 2928 From: trainnut2441 Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Bauer's Bronze boiler Streamliner
Group: vintageHO Message: 2929 From: trainnut2441 Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2930 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Re: Bauer's Bronze boiler Streamliner
Group: vintageHO Message: 2931 From: trainnut2441 Date: 2/28/2007
Subject: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2932 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Poll results for vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 2933 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2934 From: mwbauers Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Re: New Finds
Group: vintageHO Message: 2935 From: Bill Daley Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Mantua Mike for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 2936 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Fw: [yg-alerts] Update: Some Groups Members not receiving messages
Group: vintageHO Message: 2937 From: railwaymodeler Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Re: Fw: [yg-alerts] Update: Some Groups Members not receiving messa
Group: vintageHO Message: 2938 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/1/2007
Subject: Mantua- clarification
Group: vintageHO Message: 2939 From: Bill Daley Date: 3/2/2007
Subject: Mantua Mike for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 2940 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2941 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2942 From: rcjge Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2943 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2944 From: a69mustang4me Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro magne
Group: vintageHO Message: 2945 From: sean naylor Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m
Group: vintageHO Message: 2946 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m
Group: vintageHO Message: 2947 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2948 From: coronetbb Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Train Show Video
Group: vintageHO Message: 2949 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2950 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2951 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m
Group: vintageHO Message: 2952 From: sean naylor Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: What is this? American Flyer tender with some type of electro m
Group: vintageHO Message: 2953 From: oahurailway Date: 3/3/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2954 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2955 From: oahurailway Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2956 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2957 From: Mike Sloane Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2958 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 2959 From: rcjge Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2960 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2961 From: rcjge Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2962 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 2963 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2964 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2965 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2966 From: jim gerstley Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2967 From: cnj999 Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2968 From: jay matz Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2969 From: Dst8596587@aol.com Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2970 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2971 From: trainnut2441 Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2972 From: trainnut2441 Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2973 From: trainnut2441 Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2974 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2975 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2976 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot follow-up...
Group: vintageHO Message: 2977 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2978 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2979 From: rcjge Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2980 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2981 From: cnj999 Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2982 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2983 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2984 From: John Barlow Date: 3/4/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2985 From: erieberk Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2986 From: erieberk Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Varney Short Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 2987 From: oahurailway Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2988 From: erieberk Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2989 From: John Barlow Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2990 From: erieberk Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2991 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2992 From: John Barlow Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2993 From: rcjge Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2994 From: rcjge Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Looking for a Hobbytown RS3 Pilot/Front steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 2995 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Athearn couplers needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 2996 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 2997 From: sean naylor Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2998 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/5/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 2999 From: John Barlow Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3000 From: oahurailway Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: HO Seeker site back up....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3001 From: erieberk Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 3002 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 3003 From: Larry Date: 3/6/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 3004 From: Larry Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: Congratulations Foothill Shortline Ry
Group: vintageHO Message: 3005 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: E-mail snafus
Group: vintageHO Message: 3006 From: oahurailway Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: Re: Congratulations Foothill Shortline Ry
Group: vintageHO Message: 3007 From: cnj999 Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 3008 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/7/2007
Subject: 1957 Athearn dual-geared Geep
Group: vintageHO Message: 3009 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 3010 From: oahurailway Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 3011 From: sean naylor Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 3012 From: James B Date: 3/8/2007
Subject: Model Train Show Reminder March 11th Cedarburg, WI
Group: vintageHO Message: 3013 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: A Question About Champ Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 3014 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 3015 From: sean naylor Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 3016 From: jim gerstley Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: selling off models and books
Group: vintageHO Message: 3017 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books
Group: vintageHO Message: 3018 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books
Group: vintageHO Message: 3019 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 3020 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb drives Mod 1 and Mod 2 in Sean's Folder
Group: vintageHO Message: 3021 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books
Group: vintageHO Message: 3022 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Re: selling off models and books
Group: vintageHO Message: 3023 From: sean naylor Date: 3/9/2007
Subject: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3024 From: erieberk Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO Message: 3025 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3026 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3027 From: sean naylor Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3028 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/10/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3029 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3030 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3031 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3032 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3033 From: sean naylor Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3034 From: sean naylor Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3035 From: sean naylor Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3036 From: oljoeoh Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3037 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3038 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3039 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3040 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3041 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3042 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3043 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3044 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/11/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3045 From: oljoeoh Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3046 From: jay matz Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3047 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3048 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3049 From: John Barlow Date: 3/12/2007
Subject: Re: Marklin's Love Reborn...
Group: vintageHO Message: 3050 From: oljoeoh Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3051 From: oljoeoh Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Penn Line Midget
Group: vintageHO Message: 3052 From: Bill Daley Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3053 From: sean naylor Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3054 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3055 From: sean naylor Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3056 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3057 From: sean naylor Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3058 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3059 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/13/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3060 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3061 From: Deano Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...
Group: vintageHO Message: 3062 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Re: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...
Group: vintageHO Message: 3063 From: oahurailway Date: 3/14/2007
Subject: Re: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...
Group: vintageHO Message: 3064 From: raymarinaccio Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3065 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3066 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3067 From: erieberk Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3068 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3069 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3070 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3071 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3072 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3073 From: Bill Daley Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3074 From: a69mustang4me Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: New PROOF of the Original Penn Line Whitcomb Mini Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 3075 From: sean naylor Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: New PROOF of the Original Penn Line Whitcomb Mini Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 3076 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3077 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/15/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3078 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3079 From: Deano Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: Putting Lionel HO sets back together...
Group: vintageHO Message: 3080 From: oljoeoh Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: New PROOF of the Original Penn Line Whitcomb Mini Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 3081 From: erieberk Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3082 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/16/2007
Subject: CRUSADER
Group: vintageHO Message: 3083 From: Bill Daley Date: 3/17/2007
Subject: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO Message: 3084 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO Message: 3085 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO Message: 3086 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: For you Penn Line guys: Penn Line HO K-4 Pacific Steamer Kit #270
Group: vintageHO Message: 3087 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO Message: 3088 From: oahurailway Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO Message: 3089 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3090 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3
Group: vintageHO Message: 3091 From: sean naylor Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3092 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3093 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3094 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/18/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3095 From: cgls@btinternet.com Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3096 From: sean naylor Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBa
Group: vintageHO Message: 3097 From: Lance Russwurm Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3098 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3099 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3100 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3101 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3102 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBa
Group: vintageHO Message: 3103 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3104 From: cgls@btinternet.com Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: broken handrails on Hobbytown RS3 and Interesting Diesel on eBa
Group: vintageHO Message: 3105 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3106 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3107 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3108 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 3/19/2007
Subject: Red Ball 50 Ft Depressed Center Flatcar Kit #4327
Group: vintageHO Message: 3109 From: John Barlow Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball 50 Ft Depressed Center Flatcar Kit #4327
Group: vintageHO Message: 3110 From: erieberk Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3111 From: erieberk Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3112 From: erieberk Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3113 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: HO rendition of Lionel's "Girl's Train"
Group: vintageHO Message: 3114 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3115 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Strombecker Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 3116 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Strombecker Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 3117 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/20/2007
Subject: Re: Can you help ID this loco?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3118 From: rcjge Date: 3/21/2007
Subject: Looking for Dave Spanagel
Group: vintageHO Message: 3119 From: erieberk Date: 3/21/2007
Subject: Re: Strombecker Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 3120 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 3/21/2007
Subject: Re: Strombecker Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 3121 From: rcjge Date: 3/22/2007
Subject: Hobbytown F-3 and Baldwin RF-16 Shark?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3122 From: Phillip VanderHeyden Date: 3/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown F-3 and Baldwin RF-16 Shark?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3123 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3124 From: sean naylor Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3125 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3126 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3127 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3128 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3129 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3130 From: rcjge Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Old Athearn motor movement
Group: vintageHO Message: 3131 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 3/23/2007
Subject: Re: Hobbytown F-3 and Baldwin RF-16 Shark?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3132 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 3/24/2007
Subject: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3133 From: Don Grant Date: 3/24/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3134 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/24/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3135 From: trainliker Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3136 From: hoscaleuk Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: new member (In the Uk)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3137 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3138 From: John Barlow Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: new member (In the Uk)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3139 From: John Barlow Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3140 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3141 From: Glenn476 Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3142 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: new member (In the Uk)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3143 From: John Barlow Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3144 From: sean naylor Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3145 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3146 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: new member (In the Uk)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3147 From: sean naylor Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3148 From: John Barlow Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3149 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3150 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3151 From: sean naylor Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Re: A big, BIG lot of vintage HO is on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3152 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/25/2007
Subject: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3153 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3154 From: sean naylor Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: IT IS A REAL COLLECTION. Re: [vintageHO] A big, BIG lot of vintage
Group: vintageHO Message: 3155 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Do U have any of the following items? (Wanted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3156 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3157 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3158 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3159 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Unknown tank and passenger car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3160 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Unknown tank and passenger car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3161 From: oahurailway Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: HOBBYTOWN OF BOSTON update....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3162 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: HOBBYTOWN OF BOSTON update....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3163 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3164 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3165 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Unknown tank and passenger car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3166 From: Glenn476 Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3167 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3168 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3169 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3170 From: Glenn476 Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3171 From: Glenn476 Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3172 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/26/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3173 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re-kitting
Group: vintageHO Message: 3174 From: sean naylor Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: Glass beading...I need the set-up.... Dave! or anyone else...
Group: vintageHO Message: 3175 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3176 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: Glass beading...I need the set-up.... Dave! or anyone else...
Group: vintageHO Message: 3177 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: Glass beading...I need the set-up.... Dave! or anyone else...
Group: vintageHO Message: 3178 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/27/2007
Subject: Re: PING to Sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 3179 From: Chris Smith Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3180 From: John Barlow Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3181 From: John Barlow Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3182 From: Chris Smith Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3183 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3184 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3185 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3186 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3187 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3188 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3189 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3190 From: Chris Smith Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3191 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3192 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3193 From: coronetbb Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa
Group: vintageHO Message: 3198 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3200 From: coronetbb Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa
Group: vintageHO Message: 3201 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3202 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3209 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3210 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3211 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3212 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3213 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3214 From: coronetbb Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa
Group: vintageHO Message: 3215 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/28/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3216 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3217 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3218 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3219 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3220 From: Chris Smith Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3221 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3222 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3223 From: coronetbb Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa
Group: vintageHO Message: 3224 From: coronetbb Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Nice train meet in Allentown Pa
Group: vintageHO Message: 3225 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3226 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3227 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3228 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3229 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting Streamliner on eBay UK.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3230 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3231 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3232 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3233 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3234 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3235 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3236 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/29/2007
Subject: Re: Paper sided boxcars and such
Group: vintageHO Message: 3237 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3238 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3239 From: Glenn476 Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3240 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3241 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3242 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3243 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3244 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3245 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3246 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3247 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/30/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3248 From: a69mustang4me Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: I need 1 set of steps and handrail Lisdsay Brass SW7 (I think)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3249 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3250 From: sean naylor Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: I need 1 set of steps and handrail Lisdsay Brass SW7 (I think)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3251 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3252 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3253 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3254 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Lindsey switcher steps
Group: vintageHO Message: 3255 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3256 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: More on Lindsay's other stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 3257 From: erieberk Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3258 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3259 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3260 From: Glenn476 Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3261 From: Glenn476 Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3262 From: Glenn476 Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3263 From: Glenn476 Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 3264 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3265 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3266 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3267 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3268 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: RedBall or Varney hopper?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3269 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3270 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3271 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3272 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3273 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3274 From: curmudgeon Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3275 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/31/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3276 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Globe Drive unit Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 3277 From: Wobbly913 Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Globe Drive unit Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 3278 From: oljoeoh Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need help identifying
Group: vintageHO Message: 3279 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3280 From: Mike Sloane Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3281 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: FW: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3282 From: sean naylor Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: FW: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3283 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: FW: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3284 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3285 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3286 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: Re: Spikers, (was Re: [vintageHO] More on Lindsay's other stuff)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3287 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/1/2007
Subject: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO Message: 3288 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO Message: 3289 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO Message: 3290 From: sean naylor Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO Message: 3291 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO Message: 3292 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Unidentified photos up in album
Group: vintageHO Message: 3293 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: Unidentified photos up in album
Group: vintageHO Message: 3294 From: sean naylor Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: Unidentified photos up in album
Group: vintageHO Message: 3295 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO Message: 3296 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/2/2007
Subject: Re: More on Lindsay's other stuff, and help identifying one truck
Group: vintageHO Message: 3297 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/3/2007
Subject: Another identifier
Group: vintageHO Message: 3298 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/3/2007
Subject: Re: Another identifier
Group: vintageHO Message: 3299 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/3/2007
Subject: Re: Another identifier
Group: vintageHO Message: 3300 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/4/2007
Subject: Re: Another identifier
Group: vintageHO Message: 3301 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Finally shipped off the rebuilds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3302 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Mantua freight car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3303 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua freight car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3304 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua freight car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3305 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3306 From: cgls@btinternet.com Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3307 From: a69mustang4me Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3308 From: sean naylor Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3309 From: John Barlow Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3310 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua freight car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3311 From: sean naylor Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3312 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3313 From: cnj999 Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 3314 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/8/2007
Subject: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3315 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3316 From: oljoeoh Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Hiawatha (Hornby?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 3317 From: erieberk Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3318 From: erieberk Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 3319 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3320 From: sean naylor Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3321 From: John Hagen Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3322 From: sean naylor Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3323 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Reading Crusader on eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3324 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers Tongue-In-Cheek Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 3325 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3326 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3327 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3328 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3329 From: Mike Bauers Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3330 From: erieberk Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3331 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3332 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3333 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3334 From: erieberk Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3335 From: erieberk Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3336 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3337 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3338 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3339 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3340 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/9/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3341 From: erieberk Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3342 From: erieberk Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3343 From: erieberk Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3344 From: erieberk Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3345 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this engine?? eBay Item: 220098338785
Group: vintageHO Message: 3346 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3347 From: erieberk Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3348 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3349 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3350 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3351 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: What I've been up to.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3352 From: erieberk Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3353 From: erieberk Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3354 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3355 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on Metal Mantua Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3356 From: coronetbb Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Nice Train meet in Allentown pa this weekend
Group: vintageHO Message: 3357 From: Scott Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: NE PA Model Railroad Club
Group: vintageHO Message: 3358 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/11/2007
Subject: Vertical brake staffs
Group: vintageHO Message: 3359 From: erieberk Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs
Group: vintageHO Message: 3360 From: erieberk Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been up to.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3361 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs
Group: vintageHO Message: 3362 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs
Group: vintageHO Message: 3363 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been up to.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3364 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vertical brake staffs
Group: vintageHO Message: 3365 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Pennsy P-70
Group: vintageHO Message: 3366 From: a69mustang4me Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3367 From: sean naylor Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3368 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3369 From: sean naylor Date: 4/14/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3370 From: Mike Bauers Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3371 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3372 From: Larry Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3373 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: ITEMS FORSALE: See the list in the File Secition...
Group: vintageHO Message: 3374 From: erieberk Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Pennsy P-70
Group: vintageHO Message: 3375 From: sean naylor Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: 1950's, Lindsay's famous "Stubby" switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3376 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Pennsy P-70
Group: vintageHO Message: 3377 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3378 From: sean naylor Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3379 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3380 From: sean naylor Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3381 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3382 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/15/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3383 From: sean naylor Date: 4/16/2007
Subject: Re: Parts needed as I move along.....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3384 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: The following parts are needed and INFO...
Group: vintageHO Message: 3385 From: railwaymodeler Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Varney stamped metal twin hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 3386 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 3387 From: John Barlow Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 3388 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 3389 From: railwaymodeler Date: 4/18/2007
Subject: Re: Varney stamped metal twin hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 3390 From: Mike Bauers Date: 4/18/2007
Subject: I gotta tell ya........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3391 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Bachmann Traction Rings/Tires Needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 3392 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 3393 From: John Barlow Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 3394 From: donvdh Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Bachmann Traction Rings/Tires Needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 3395 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 3396 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Bachmann Traction Rings/Tires Needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 3397 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3398 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3399 From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3400 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/19/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3401 From: John Barlow Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Coupler Conversion Help Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 3402 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded & Locomotive INFO Update
Group: vintageHO Message: 3403 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3404 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3405 From: donvdh Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3406 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3407 From: Wobbly913 Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3408 From: donvdh Date: 4/20/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3409 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded & Locomotive INFO Update
Group: vintageHO Message: 3410 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Photos Uploaded
Group: vintageHO Message: 3411 From: rcjge Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3412 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3413 From: donvdh Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3414 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3415 From: donvdh Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Lionel\ Hi-fi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3416 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3417 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3418 From: Wobbly913 Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3419 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3420 From: sean naylor Date: 4/21/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel\ Hi-fi
Group: vintageHO Message: 3421 From: oljoeoh Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3422 From: Mike Sloane Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3423 From: sean naylor Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3424 From: oljoeoh Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3425 From: oljoeoh Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 3426 From: donvdh Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3427 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: I Have The Following Parts Forsale
Group: vintageHO Message: 3428 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3429 From: Mike Sloane Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3430 From: Wobbly913 Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3431 From: Wobbly913 Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3432 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3433 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3434 From: Wobbly913 Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3435 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3436 From: Larry Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3437 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee cou
Group: vintageHO Message: 3438 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3439 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3440 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3441 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3442 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3443 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3444 From: sean naylor Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3445 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3446 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3447 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3448 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/22/2007
Subject: LACONIA FLAT
Group: vintageHO Message: 3449 From: John Barlow Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Re: LACONIA FLAT
Group: vintageHO Message: 3450 From: donvdh Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Hi-Fi drive front shaft
Group: vintageHO Message: 3451 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3452 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/23/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F GP-7/9
Group: vintageHO Message: 3453 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3454 From: sean naylor Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3455 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3456 From: sean naylor Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3457 From: donvdh Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Lionel Texas Special Passenger set Plus Extra Equipment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3458 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3459 From: sean naylor Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3460 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3461 From: erieberk Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3462 From: sean naylor Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3463 From: sean naylor Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3464 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/24/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3465 From: oljoeoh Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kaydee cou
Group: vintageHO Message: 3466 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Lindberg SW-1
Group: vintageHO Message: 3467 From: sean naylor Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Lindberg SW-1
Group: vintageHO Message: 3468 From: John Barlow Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Lindberg SW-1
Group: vintageHO Message: 3469 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and
Group: vintageHO Message: 3470 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3471 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3472 From: Glenn476 Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3473 From: curmudgeon Date: 4/25/2007
Subject: Re: Trying to discover car side manufacturer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3474 From: oljoeoh Date: 4/26/2007
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Athearn Hustler with Cary cab and Kay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3475 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 4/26/2007
Subject: Re: Lindberg SW-1
Group: vintageHO Message: 3476 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 4/27/2007
Subject: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 3477 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3478 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3479 From: sean naylor Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3480 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3481 From: donvdh Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3482 From: sean naylor Date: 4/28/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3483 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3484 From: sean naylor Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3485 From: sean naylor Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3486 From: Larry Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Just thought Someone maybe interested
Group: vintageHO Message: 3487 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3488 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3489 From: Mike Bauers Date: 4/29/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3490 From: John Hagen Date: 4/30/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3491 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3492 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3493 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3494 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3495 From: Wobbly913 Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3496 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3497 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3498 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3499 From: sean naylor Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3500 From: Russ Shiel Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: mogul taxonomy
Group: vintageHO Message: 3501 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: mogul taxonomy
Group: vintageHO Message: 3502 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3503 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3504 From: sean naylor Date: 5/1/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3505 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3506 From: Bill Daley Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3507 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3508 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: AF H-O
Group: vintageHO Message: 3509 From: John Hagen Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Test
Group: vintageHO Message: 3510 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3511 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: mogul taxonomy
Group: vintageHO Message: 3512 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3513 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3514 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3515 From: John Hagen Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3516 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3517 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3518 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/2/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3519 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3520 From: Larry Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3521 From: Larry Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3522 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3523 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/3/2007
Subject: Re: Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 3524 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3525 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3526 From: donvdh Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3527 From: donvdh Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3528 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3529 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3530 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/4/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3531 From: Larry Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3532 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3533 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3534 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3535 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Question on old Athearn Geeps.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3536 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO Message: 3537 From: John Barlow Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO Message: 3538 From: donvdh Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO Message: 3539 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO Message: 3540 From: John Barlow Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO Message: 3541 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/5/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO Message: 3542 From: Mike Sloane Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO Message: 3543 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's ( In Context )
Group: vintageHO Message: 3544 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO Message: 3545 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Lionel FA's
Group: vintageHO Message: 3546 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3547 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/6/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3548 From: cnj999 Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3549 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3550 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3551 From: donvdh Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3552 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3553 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3554 From: donvdh Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3555 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/7/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3556 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 5/8/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3557 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/10/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3558 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 5/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3559 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/11/2007
Subject: Re: Question on vintage Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 3560 From: docdenny34 Date: 5/13/2007
Subject: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3561 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/13/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3562 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/13/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3563 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3564 From: Denny Anspach Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3565 From: docdenny34 Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Isolating Varney V2 motor brushes. Was: Varney V2 motor and DC
Group: vintageHO Message: 3566 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3567 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3568 From: erieberk Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Early Super Mikado Boiler -- Was: Isolating Varney V2 motor bru
Group: vintageHO Message: 3569 From: Denny Anspach Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor and DCC decoders.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3570 From: Denny Anspach Date: 5/16/2007
Subject: Re: Early Super Mikado Boiler -- Was: Isolating Varney V2 motor brus
Group: vintageHO Message: 3571 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: Varney cereal car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3572 From: rcjge Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3573 From: Mike Sloane Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3574 From: John Barlow Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3575 From: oljoeoh Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3576 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3577 From: Wobbly913 Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3578 From: herb1013 Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3579 From: rcjge Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3580 From: sean naylor Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3581 From: sean naylor Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3582 From: oljoeoh Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3583 From: Wobbly913 Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3584 From: Denny Anspach Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3585 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3586 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3587 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3588 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Varney cereal car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3589 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Latest adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3590 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3591 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3592 From: oljoeoh Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3593 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3594 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3595 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3596 From: Wobbly913 Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3597 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3598 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3599 From: oljoeoh Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3600 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Model Railroader Magazines - Free!!!
Group: vintageHO Message: 3601 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3602 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3603 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/19/2007
Subject: Re: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO locomotive kit?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3604 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3605 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3606 From: Larry Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3607 From: Denny Anspach Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Varney history. Was: Was the Taylor-Built Baltic the first HO loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 3608 From: donvdh Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: wrong scale
Group: vintageHO Message: 3609 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: wrong scale
Group: vintageHO Message: 3610 From: donvdh Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Wrong Scale
Group: vintageHO Message: 3611 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale
Group: vintageHO Message: 3612 From: donvdh Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Wrong Scale Helicopter
Group: vintageHO Message: 3613 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter
Group: vintageHO Message: 3614 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3615 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3616 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3617 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3618 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3619 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3620 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 5/20/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3621 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter
Group: vintageHO Message: 3622 From: a69mustang4me Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO Message: 3623 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter
Group: vintageHO Message: 3624 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Suydam reefer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3625 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: Hi-F Athearn variations
Group: vintageHO Message: 3626 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: FW: [vintageHO] Wrong Scale Helicopter
Group: vintageHO Message: 3627 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO Message: 3628 From: sean naylor Date: 5/21/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO Message: 3629 From: Denny Anspach Date: 5/22/2007
Subject: Suydam reefer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3630 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/22/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam reefer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3631 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/22/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO Message: 3632 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam reefer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3633 From: Scott Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO Message: 3634 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO Message: 3635 From: Scott Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: NMRA Manual
Group: vintageHO Message: 3636 From: donvdh Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado
Group: vintageHO Message: 3637 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado
Group: vintageHO Message: 3638 From: donvdh Date: 5/23/2007
Subject: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado
Group: vintageHO Message: 3639 From: sean naylor Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado
Group: vintageHO Message: 3640 From: sean naylor Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado
Group: vintageHO Message: 3641 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado
Group: vintageHO Message: 3642 From: donvdh Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Hallmark Lionel Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 3643 From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark Lionel Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 3644 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado
Group: vintageHO Message: 3645 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado
Group: vintageHO Message: 3646 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass cab for Mantua Berkshire\Mikado
Group: vintageHO Message: 3647 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Cab for Mantua Mikado
Group: vintageHO Message: 3648 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/24/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark Lionel Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 3649 From: oljoeoh Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark Lionel Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 3650 From: donvdh Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3651 From: sean naylor Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3652 From: sean naylor Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3653 From: John Barlow Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3654 From: donvdh Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3655 From: sean naylor Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3656 From: donvdh Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Lionel Helic Drive Springs
Group: vintageHO Message: 3657 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3658 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3659 From: John Hagen Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3660 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3661 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3662 From: donvdh Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3663 From: donvdh Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Thank you all
Group: vintageHO Message: 3664 From: Denny Anspach Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3665 From: donvdh Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3666 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3667 From: Graeme Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3668 From: donvdh Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3669 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Interesting restoration
Group: vintageHO Message: 3670 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: 00 vs HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3671 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3672 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3673 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Out of perspective Hallmark J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3674 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting restoration
Group: vintageHO Message: 3675 From: John Hagen Date: 5/26/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting restoration
Group: vintageHO Message: 3676 From: oljoeoh Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3677 From: donvdh Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Hallmark\Lionel N&W J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3678 From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3679 From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3680 From: oljoeoh Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3681 From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3682 From: oljoeoh Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3683 From: donvdh Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Hallmark Cattle Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3684 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Interesting restoration
Group: vintageHO Message: 3685 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/27/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmak\Lionel J-Class
Group: vintageHO Message: 3686 From: donvdh Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: conversion feet to 1\87th
Group: vintageHO Message: 3687 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: conversion feet to 1\87th
Group: vintageHO Message: 3688 From: donvdh Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Once again, Hallmark Lionel
Group: vintageHO Message: 3689 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3690 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: conversion feet to 1\87th
Group: vintageHO Message: 3691 From: sean naylor Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3692 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3693 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3694 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3695 From: John Hagen Date: 5/28/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3696 From: sean naylor Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3697 From: Wobbly913 Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3698 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3699 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3700 From: sean naylor Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3701 From: Frank Nagy Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: handrails
Group: vintageHO Message: 3702 From: Wobbly913 Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: handrails
Group: vintageHO Message: 3703 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: handrails
Group: vintageHO Message: 3704 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3705 From: sean naylor Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3706 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3707 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3708 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3709 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: Building a model.........
Group: vintageHO Message: 3710 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/29/2007
Subject: Re: handrails
Group: vintageHO Message: 3711 From: greendoddz Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3712 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3713 From: greendoddz Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3714 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3715 From: donvdh Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Yet again, HiFi drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3716 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3717 From: donvdh Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3718 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3719 From: sean naylor Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3720 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3721 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3722 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3723 From: greendoddz Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3724 From: greendoddz Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3725 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3726 From: railwaymodeler Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3727 From: sean naylor Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3728 From: railwaymodeler Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: handrails
Group: vintageHO Message: 3729 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3730 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: handrails
Group: vintageHO Message: 3731 From: sean naylor Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3732 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3733 From: sean naylor Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3734 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3735 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3736 From: Glenn476 Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3737 From: curmudgeon Date: 5/31/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3738 From: Larry Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3739 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3740 From: donvdh Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3741 From: greendoddz Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3742 From: jay matz Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3743 From: greendoddz Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3744 From: sean naylor Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3745 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO - tyco oddities
Group: vintageHO Message: 3746 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3747 From: greendoddz Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3748 From: greendoddz Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO - tyco oddities
Group: vintageHO Message: 3749 From: jay matz Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3750 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3751 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3752 From: Roger Aultman Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3753 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I
Group: vintageHO Message: 3754 From: a69mustang4me Date: 6/1/2007
Subject: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see the
Group: vintageHO Message: 3755 From: cnj999 Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3756 From: Riverboy Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3757 From: sean naylor Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3758 From: cnj999 Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3759 From: Riverboy Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3760 From: sean naylor Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3761 From: John Hagen Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3762 From: epoxy_tech Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Crown HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3763 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3764 From: Garry Spear Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3765 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3766 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Crown HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3767 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3768 From: Richard Moessner Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3769 From: David Young Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: brass models by International - V&T?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3770 From: Roger Aultman Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS
Group: vintageHO Message: 3771 From: Don RIley Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Virginian Rectifyer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3772 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I
Group: vintageHO Message: 3773 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3774 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3775 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3776 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3777 From: cnj999 Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3778 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3779 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3780 From: cnj999 Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3781 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/2/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3782 From: erieberk Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: My Lionel & Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 3783 From: cnj999 Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3784 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3785 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: New car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3786 From: erieberk Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3787 From: Ray Hobin Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Mantua Berk
Group: vintageHO Message: 3788 From: erieberk Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3789 From: erieberk Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Berk
Group: vintageHO Message: 3790 From: Scott Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS
Group: vintageHO Message: 3791 From: erieberk Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3792 From: Roger Aultman Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS
Group: vintageHO Message: 3793 From: cnj999 Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Do Mantua Berkshires exist? Where can I find one?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3794 From: donvdh Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Cast American Flyer - Vintage?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3795 From: Scott Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: AT&T CONTAINER FLATS
Group: vintageHO Message: 3796 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: historicrail
Group: vintageHO Message: 3797 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Unusual Lionel Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3798 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3799 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3800 From: madchemep2@aol.com Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Crown HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3801 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: historicrail
Group: vintageHO Message: 3802 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3803 From: erieberk Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: What qualifies as vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 3804 From: donvdh Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3805 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: historicrail
Group: vintageHO Message: 3806 From: erieberk Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3807 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3808 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Unusual Lionel Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3809 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3810 From: cnj999 Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer - Vintage?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3811 From: donvdh Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Update on rarest Lionel switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3812 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: The annual "do" is over
Group: vintageHO Message: 3813 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3814 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: One and a half "nuggets" from the bash.....
Group: vintageHO Message: 3815 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/3/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer - Vintage?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3816 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3817 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3818 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3819 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3820 From: John Hagen Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Update on rarest Lionel switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 3821 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3822 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3823 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3824 From: erieberk Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3825 From: Garry Spear Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3826 From: donvdh Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Rarest Lionel Switcher?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3827 From: donvdh Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Cast American Flyer Tank car parts, cast unk maker hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 3828 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer Tank car parts, cast unk maker hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 3829 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/4/2007
Subject: Re: Cast American Flyer Tank car parts, cast unk maker hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 3830 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Virginian Rectifyer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3831 From: erieberk Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3832 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Virginian Rectifyer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3833 From: A.W. Wallace Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3834 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3835 From: Al Wallace Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Cast to Brass?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3836 From: Garry Spear Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3837 From: erieberk Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3838 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3839 From: cnj999 Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3840 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3841 From: Dale Smith Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33314 - Did anyone else see
Group: vintageHO Message: 3842 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3843 From: Wobbly913 Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3844 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/5/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3845 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Old equipment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3846 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3847 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3848 From: Henry Hultgren Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 3849 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Re: Virginian Rectifyer
Group: vintageHO Message: 3850 From: donvdh Date: 6/6/2007
Subject: Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3851 From: erieberk Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3852 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3853 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3854 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3855 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3856 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3857 From: rob wiggins Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3858 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3859 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3860 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3861 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3862 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3863 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3864 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3865 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3866 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Mystery drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3867 From: Tom Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Thomas Trains HO Roma 7000 Gallon Wine Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 3868 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Pictures added, Varney Penn Line Life Like
Group: vintageHO Message: 3869 From: donvdh Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Hallmark\Lionel N&W 4-8-4
Group: vintageHO Message: 3870 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/7/2007
Subject: Re: Pictures added, Varney Penn Line Life Like
Group: vintageHO Message: 3871 From: dasha469 Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Re: Hallmark\Lionel N&W 4-8-4
Group: vintageHO Message: 3872 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Re: Pictures added, Varney Penn Line Life Like
Group: vintageHO Message: 3873 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Walthers experts
Group: vintageHO Message: 3874 From: donvdh Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 3875 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers experts
Group: vintageHO Message: 3876 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/8/2007
Subject: eBAY Madness???
Group: vintageHO Message: 3877 From: donvdh Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: World's most expensive Lionel switcher, I think.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3878 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: World's most expensive Lionel switcher, I think.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3879 From: John Plott Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 3880 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 3881 From: donvdh Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 3882 From: sean naylor Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???
Group: vintageHO Message: 3883 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Frame photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 3884 From: John Barlow Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???
Group: vintageHO Message: 3885 From: Mike Christian Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: CN_HO_Collectors Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 3886 From: Mary Long Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???
Group: vintageHO Message: 3887 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: eBAY Madness???
Group: vintageHO Message: 3888 From: donvdh Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Lost e-mail address for picture problem
Group: vintageHO Message: 3889 From: John Plott Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 3890 From: donvdh Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: 1980 NMRA Special Edition Train Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 3891 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/9/2007
Subject: Re: 1980 NMRA Commemorative Streamlinr6-Car Passenger Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 3892 From: donvdh Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3893 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3894 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3895 From: donvdh Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3896 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/10/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3897 From: donvdh Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3898 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3899 From: John Barlow Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3900 From: sean naylor Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3901 From: sean naylor Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3902 From: Mary Long Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3903 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3904 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd
Group: vintageHO Message: 3905 From: John Barlow Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3906 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3907 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3908 From: rob wiggins Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3909 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3910 From: sean naylor Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3911 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3912 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3913 From: donvdh Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion
Group: vintageHO Message: 3914 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion
Group: vintageHO Message: 3915 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion
Group: vintageHO Message: 3916 From: tubamarx Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: AF Pikemaster Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3917 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Extremes, purpose, and an opinion
Group: vintageHO Message: 3918 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/11/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3919 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Con-Cor PA
Group: vintageHO Message: 3920 From: donvdh Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: NMRA Headquarters Express Train \ 1985 NMRA 50th Anniversary Commme
Group: vintageHO Message: 3921 From: bitlerisvj Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3922 From: John Barlow Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3923 From: sean naylor Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3924 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3925 From: sean naylor Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3926 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3927 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3928 From: sean naylor Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3929 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Sniping
Group: vintageHO Message: 3930 From: Henry Hultgren Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3931 From: sean naylor Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3932 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3933 From: sean naylor Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Sniping
Group: vintageHO Message: 3934 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3935 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3936 From: sean naylor Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3937 From: sean naylor Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3938 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3939 From: sean naylor Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3940 From: donvdh Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, again
Group: vintageHO Message: 3941 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3942 From: sean naylor Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3943 From: sean naylor Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3944 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3945 From: donvdh Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, again
Group: vintageHO Message: 3946 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3947 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3948 From: donvdh Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Grateful appreciation.
Group: vintageHO Message: 3949 From: Rick Jones Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3950 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3951 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3952 From: Scott Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3953 From: Scott Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 3954 From: Scott Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3955 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3956 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3957 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3958 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3959 From: Scott Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3960 From: donvdh Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3961 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3962 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/12/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3963 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment
Group: vintageHO Message: 3964 From: sean naylor Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment HAS BEEN DECLARED OFF-TOPIC!
Group: vintageHO Message: 3965 From: Scott Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Totally absurd...minus enjoyment HAS BEEN DECLARED OFF-TOPIC!
Group: vintageHO Message: 3966 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Totally absurd...BUT THIS HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED OFF-TOPIC!
Group: vintageHO Message: 3967 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Bid Sniping - Another tempest in a teapot - also an opinion, ag
Group: vintageHO Message: 3968 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3969 From: Mary Long Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Is Mom's battery OK ?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3970 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Is Mom's battery OK ?
Group: vintageHO Message: 3971 From: dadof4children2007 Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 3972 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/13/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 3973 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3974 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 3975 From: dadof4children2007 Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 3976 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3977 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 6/14/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3978 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3979 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3980 From: sean naylor Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds - F3s
Group: vintageHO Message: 3981 From: Henry Hultgren Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds - F3s
Group: vintageHO Message: 3982 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds - F3s
Group: vintageHO Message: 3983 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3984 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3985 From: Michael Bauers Date: 6/15/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 3986 From: James E Crowell, BSc, MEd Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89
Group: vintageHO Message: 3987 From: rob wiggins Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89
Group: vintageHO Message: 3988 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89
Group: vintageHO Message: 3989 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89
Group: vintageHO Message: 3990 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/16/2007
Subject: Re: Globe (before Athearn) gold kit B89
Group: vintageHO Message: 3991 From: James E Crowell, BSc, MEd Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Globe gold locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 3992 From: Roger Aultman Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Varney Ostuco
Group: vintageHO Message: 3993 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney Ostuco
Group: vintageHO Message: 3994 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney Ostuco
Group: vintageHO Message: 3995 From: Roger Aultman Date: 6/17/2007
Subject: Re: Varney Ostuco
Group: vintageHO Message: 3996 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Fwd: : Stroke
Group: vintageHO Message: 3997 From: Rick Jones Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: : Stroke
Group: vintageHO Message: 3998 From: donvdh Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 3999 From: rob wiggins Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4000 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/19/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4001 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4002 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4003 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4004 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/20/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4005 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4006 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 4007 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4008 From: Wobbly913 Date: 6/21/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4009 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4010 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4011 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 4012 From: Roger Aultman Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 4013 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4014 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4015 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4016 From: curmudgeon Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4017 From: herb1013 Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Fw: GE Loco & Test Car Set - Only 35 Produced - Pre Order Now
Group: vintageHO Message: 4018 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/22/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 4019 From: Mary Long Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4020 From: Ray Hobin Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4021 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 4022 From: donvdh Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Bowser Challenger parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4023 From: sean naylor Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Challenger parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4024 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: New adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 4025 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4026 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac - Hertz's comments
Group: vintageHO Message: 4027 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac - Hertz's comments
Group: vintageHO Message: 4028 From: erieberk Date: 6/25/2007
Subject: Re: Thomas Tank Cars: Was -- HO Gilbert Cities Service Tank Car 33
Group: vintageHO Message: 4029 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 6/26/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4030 From: Garry Spear Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Old PFM Cataloges for sale + one Gem
Group: vintageHO Message: 4031 From: Garry Spear Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value
Group: vintageHO Message: 4032 From: sean naylor Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value
Group: vintageHO Message: 4033 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Fwd: Some photos for you!
Group: vintageHO Message: 4034 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value
Group: vintageHO Message: 4035 From: sean naylor Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value
Group: vintageHO Message: 4036 From: Glenn476 Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Reasding Pacific & Atlantic Brass Boilered Kit Value
Group: vintageHO Message: 4037 From: donvdh Date: 6/30/2007
Subject: Zamac question, again. Sorry
Group: vintageHO Message: 4038 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4039 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac question, again. Sorry
Group: vintageHO Message: 4040 From: sean naylor Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4041 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4042 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4043 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4044 From: donvdh Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Photo attachments
Group: vintageHO Message: 4045 From: donvdh Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: 1980 NMRA Headquarters Express Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 4046 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4047 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4048 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4049 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: Posting Images(was:Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4050 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 7/1/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4051 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4052 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4053 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4054 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4055 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identifying Old Japanese HO Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4056 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/2/2007
Subject: Surplus tem
Group: vintageHO Message: 4057 From: tubamarx Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: International Model products catalog
Group: vintageHO Message: 4058 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: International Model products catalog
Group: vintageHO Message: 4059 From: trainliker Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: International Model products catalog
Group: vintageHO Message: 4060 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: International Model products catalog
Group: vintageHO Message: 4061 From: tubamarx Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO Message: 4062 From: curmudgeon Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO Message: 4063 From: sean naylor Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO Message: 4064 From: curmudgeon Date: 7/3/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO Message: 4065 From: sean naylor Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO Message: 4066 From: sean naylor Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Re: Tenshodo Set in Wooden Box
Group: vintageHO Message: 4067 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: needs-wants
Group: vintageHO Message: 4068 From: Scott Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Hoboken/Weehawken Waterfront
Group: vintageHO Message: 4069 From: donvdh Date: 7/4/2007
Subject: Newark, Port Newark, Hoboken, Jersey City, Staten Island waterfront
Group: vintageHO Message: 4070 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Fwd: International Model Products
Group: vintageHO Message: 4071 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Re: IMP 4-4-0 question response
Group: vintageHO Message: 4072 From: madchemep2@aol.com Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Hoboken/Weehawken Waterfront
Group: vintageHO Message: 4073 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: International Model Products
Group: vintageHO Message: 4074 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 7/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: International Model Products
Group: vintageHO Message: 4075 From: railwaymodeler Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4076 From: John Barlow Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4077 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4078 From: railwaymodeler Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4079 From: John Barlow Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4080 From: railwaymodeler Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4081 From: Mike Christian Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard Co.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4082 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4083 From: tubamarx Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard Info
Group: vintageHO Message: 4084 From: railwaymodeler Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4085 From: Imp Ster Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: IMP 4-4-0 ???
Group: vintageHO Message: 4086 From: Denny Anspach Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4087 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4088 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4089 From: artrich999@aol.com Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4090 From: curmudgeon Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4091 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4092 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Picard
Group: vintageHO Message: 4093 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: FW: [vintageHO] Re: Picard Novelty Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4094 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/7/2007
Subject: Re: Picard
Group: vintageHO Message: 4095 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: An Interview with Nat Polk
Group: vintageHO Message: 4096 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: An Interview with Nat Polk
Group: vintageHO Message: 4097 From: a69mustang4me Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4098 From: rob wiggins Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4099 From: A.W. Wallace Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4100 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4101 From: erieberk Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4102 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: New motive power
Group: vintageHO Message: 4103 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] New motive power
Group: vintageHO Message: 4104 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Micro Motive
Group: vintageHO Message: 4105 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Diecast Roundhouse Passenger Cars ??? Never saw one...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4106 From: Denny Anspach Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker
Group: vintageHO Message: 4107 From: curmudgeon Date: 7/8/2007
Subject: Re: Micro Motive
Group: vintageHO Message: 4108 From: erieberk Date: 7/10/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker
Group: vintageHO Message: 4109 From: Denny Anspach Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker
Group: vintageHO Message: 4110 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker
Group: vintageHO Message: 4111 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Thomas the Tank Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 4112 From: Denny Anspach Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Ancient Varney Cars. Was: Re: Dry ice car, unknown maker
Group: vintageHO Message: 4113 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 4114 From: Askerberg Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: English coach and combine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4115 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4116 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 7/11/2007
Subject: Re: Ancient Varney Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4117 From: sean naylor Date: 7/12/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4118 From: robwiggins2004 Date: 7/12/2007
Subject: for sale or trade list one of 5
Group: vintageHO Message: 4119 From: Askerberg Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4120 From: Askerberg Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: Re: English coach and combine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4121 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 4122 From: robwiggins2004 Date: 7/13/2007
Subject: FOR SALE OR TRADE 2 OF 5
Group: vintageHO Message: 4123 From: robwiggins2004 Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: FOR SALE LIST 3 OF 5
Group: vintageHO Message: 4124 From: sean naylor Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4125 From: rob wiggins Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4126 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4127 From: sean naylor Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4128 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4129 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4130 From: sean naylor Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4131 From: robwiggins2004 Date: 7/15/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic
Group: vintageHO Message: 4132 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic
Group: vintageHO Message: 4133 From: sean naylor Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic
Group: vintageHO Message: 4134 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic
Group: vintageHO Message: 4135 From: rob wiggins Date: 7/16/2007
Subject: Re: FOR SALE LISTS Is this the right place?and new topic
Group: vintageHO Message: 4136 From: Denny Anspach Date: 7/19/2007
Subject: ? Megow?: G.A.R.X. 48979 MKT wood reefer
Group: vintageHO Message: 4137 From: erieberk Date: 7/19/2007
Subject: Re: ? Megow?: G.A.R.X. 48979 MKT wood reefer
Group: vintageHO Message: 4138 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/21/2007
Subject: Re: ? Megow?: G.A.R.X. 48979 MKT wood reefer
Group: vintageHO Message: 4139 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Conventions and cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4140 From: Don Van Der Horn Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Spare convention cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4141 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Re: Conventions and cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4142 From: Glenn476 Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: Re: [PCR-nmra] Conventions and cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4143 From: Don Van Der Horn Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: NMRA Commeorative Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4144 From: Don Van Der Horn Date: 7/23/2007
Subject: 1066 vs 1966 conventions
Group: vintageHO Message: 4145 From: lesbrody923 Date: 8/2/2007
Subject: Thanks sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 4146 From: sean naylor Date: 8/2/2007
Subject: Re: Thanks sean
Group: vintageHO Message: 4147 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 8/5/2007
Subject: Kemtron to Precision Number Conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 4148 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/10/2007
Subject: A couple adds
Group: vintageHO Message: 4149 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 8/12/2007
Subject: Thanks to the Group -- International Models 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 4150 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 8/14/2007
Subject: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO Message: 4151 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 8/14/2007
Subject: tubamarx, please contact me off line
Group: vintageHO Message: 4152 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/14/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO Message: 4153 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO Message: 4154 From: Wobbly913 Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO Message: 4155 From: James Sabo Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO Message: 4156 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/15/2007
Subject: Re: Question about Dyna-Models
Group: vintageHO Message: 4157 From: Denny Anspach Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Walthers "BJ" Reefer kit.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4158 From: railwaymodeler Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4159 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4160 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4161 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 8/16/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4162 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/17/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4163 From: Denny Anspach Date: 8/18/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4164 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/18/2007
Subject: Re: Powering a Strombecker E series Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4165 From: railwaymodeler Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4166 From: jay matz Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4167 From: A.W. Wallace Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4168 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4169 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4170 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4171 From: railwaymodeler Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4172 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 8/23/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4173 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4174 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4175 From: curmudgeon Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4176 From: Dale Smith Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4177 From: railwaymodeler Date: 8/24/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout- It RUNS!
Group: vintageHO Message: 4178 From: Denny Anspach Date: 8/25/2007
Subject: Re: Prewar (?) AF HO Hudson- running it on a layout
Group: vintageHO Message: 4179 From: Nick Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4180 From: Charles Kinzer Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4181 From: Mike Sloane Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4182 From: Nick Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4183 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4184 From: jerrygart5 Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4185 From: Henry Hultgren Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4186 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/28/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4187 From: sean naylor Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4188 From: Nick Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4189 From: Nick Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4190 From: Mike Sloane Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4191 From: Mike Sloane Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4192 From: Roger Aultman Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4193 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4194 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4195 From: Glenn476 Date: 8/29/2007
Subject: Re: Repowering Athearn RDCs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4196 From: cnj999 Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4197 From: Nick Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4198 From: Roger Aultman Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4199 From: ckinzer@att.net Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4200 From: Mike Bauers Date: 8/30/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4201 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4202 From: Roger Aultman Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4203 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4204 From: tomvanhoy Date: 8/31/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4205 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 9/1/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4206 From: Denny Anspach Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4207 From: Garry Spear Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Mantua & Tyco
Group: vintageHO Message: 4208 From: Sean Naylor Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4209 From: Larry Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4210 From: sean naylor Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4211 From: sean naylor Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4212 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4213 From: Glenn476 Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4214 From: Henry Hultgren Date: 9/2/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4215 From: Denny Anspach Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4216 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4217 From: sean naylor Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4218 From: A.W. Wallace Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Soldering
Group: vintageHO Message: 4219 From: John bell Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Soldering...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4220 From: A.W. Wallace Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Soldering...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4221 From: Glenn476 Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4222 From: sean naylor Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4223 From: sean naylor Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Re: Mantua Brass Bridge Kits??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4224 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/3/2007
Subject: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4225 From: John Hagen Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4226 From: Rick Jones Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4227 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Soldering
Group: vintageHO Message: 4228 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Fwd: [HOn3] Re: Narrow Gauge Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4229 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 9/5/2007
Subject: Re: Soldering
Group: vintageHO Message: 4230 From: Sean Naylor Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4231 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4232 From: sean naylor Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4233 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4234 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4235 From: sean naylor Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4236 From: John Barlow Date: 9/8/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4237 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4238 From: Mary Long Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4239 From: Mary Long Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4240 From: sean naylor Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4241 From: sean naylor Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4242 From: Mary Long Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4243 From: Howard R Garner Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4244 From: sean naylor Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4245 From: Howard R Garner Date: 9/9/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4246 From: greendoddz Date: 9/10/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4247 From: lvtrainmeet Date: 9/10/2007
Subject: Nice train meet this weekend
Group: vintageHO Message: 4248 From: Nick Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Nice train meet this weekend
Group: vintageHO Message: 4249 From: greendoddz Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4250 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4251 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Stroke
Group: vintageHO Message: 4252 From: railwaymodeler Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4253 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4254 From: curmudgeon Date: 9/11/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4255 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4256 From: greendoddz Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4257 From: Mike Sloane Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4258 From: Charles Kinzer Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4259 From: greendoddz Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4260 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4261 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4262 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4263 From: Rick Jones Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4264 From: curmudgeon Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4265 From: greendoddz Date: 9/12/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage Power Packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 4266 From: CinderCrusher Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4267 From: A.W. Wallace Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4268 From: Gerry D Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4269 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4270 From: Rick Jones Date: 9/14/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4271 From: greendoddz Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4272 From: jay matz Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4273 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4274 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4275 From: hmbb56 Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler vs Lionel train set.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4276 From: Jerry Prather Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4277 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4278 From: CinderCrusher Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4279 From: Howard R Garner Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4280 From: Rick Jones Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4281 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4282 From: CinderCrusher Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4283 From: sswcharlie Date: 9/15/2007
Subject: Vintage Model of GMDH-1 Demo Loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 4284 From: erieberk Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4285 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4286 From: Maynard Keith Franklin Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4287 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4288 From: Jack Priller Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Dates?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4289 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dates?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4290 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4291 From: Howard R Garner Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dates?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4292 From: Howard R Garner Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dates?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4293 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/16/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4294 From: Jay Matz Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Athearn Loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 4295 From: Wobbly913 Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 4296 From: David Keim Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 4297 From: railwaymodeler Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn Loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 4298 From: sean naylor Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4299 From: Henry Hultgren Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4300 From: sean naylor Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4301 From: sean naylor Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Who Made a Brass T1?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4302 From: A.W. Wallace Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Tru-Scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 4303 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Model Die Casting M-K-T boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 4304 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Tru-Scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 4305 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: MY TRAINS
Group: vintageHO Message: 4306 From: John Bell Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: MY TRAINS
Group: vintageHO Message: 4307 From: lesbrody923 Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 4308 From: John Barlow Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 4309 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 4310 From: jay matz Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid Snow Plow Plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 4311 From: lesbrody923 Date: 9/21/2007
Subject: the box says winged snowplow and one has a small piece of in
Group: vintageHO Message: 4312 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 9/23/2007
Subject: Re: the box says winged snowplow and one has a small piece of in
Group: vintageHO Message: 4313 From: railwaymodeler Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: TrainFest In Milwaukee, WI- November
Group: vintageHO Message: 4314 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: Re: TrainFest In Milwaukee, WI- November
Group: vintageHO Message: 4315 From: ckinzer@att.net Date: 9/29/2007
Subject: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 4316 From: Mary Long Date: 9/29/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 4317 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 4318 From: railwaymodeler Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 4319 From: curmudgeon Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 4320 From: CinderCrusher Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 4321 From: Mary Long Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Some early PFM catalog history and the end of steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 4322 From: donvdh Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4323 From: curmudgeon Date: 9/30/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4324 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4325 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4326 From: donvdh Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Thomas Ind. Tank Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 4327 From: jay matz Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4328 From: Denny Anspach Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4329 From: Mary Long Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4330 From: jay matz Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4331 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 10/1/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4332 From: sean naylor Date: 10/3/2007
Subject: Ping to Hank!
Group: vintageHO Message: 4333 From: donvdh Date: 10/3/2007
Subject: Re: Ping to Hank!
Group: vintageHO Message: 4334 From: Mary Long Date: 10/3/2007
Subject: Re: Ping to Hank!
Group: vintageHO Message: 4335 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4336 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4337 From: cnj999 Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4338 From: Denny Anspach Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: Re: Stripping paint from metal engines, etc.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4339 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 10/5/2007
Subject: mystery passenger cars - was: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4340 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4341 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] mystery passenger cars - was: Aristo Craft HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 4342 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4343 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4344 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4345 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] mystery passenger cars - was: Aristo Craft HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 4346 From: tcol@toast.net Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO Message: 4347 From: jay matz Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO Message: 4348 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO Message: 4349 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO Message: 4350 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO Message: 4351 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO Message: 4352 From: cnj999 Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4353 From: Denny Anspach Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Strombecker RI Rocket
Group: vintageHO Message: 4354 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4355 From: CinderCrusher Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO Message: 4356 From: ckinzer@att.net Date: 10/6/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4357 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Replacement steam driver wheel/axle
Group: vintageHO Message: 4358 From: cnj999 Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Smart Brass Locos - was: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4359 From: Ray Hobin Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1040
Group: vintageHO Message: 4360 From: cnj999 Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4361 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4362 From: herb1013 Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Keystone HO Exclusive Train Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 4363 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Keystone HO Exclusive Train Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 4364 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4365 From: herb1013 Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Keystone HO Exclusive Train Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 4366 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/7/2007
Subject: Re: Aristo Craft HO 0-4-4T Mason
Group: vintageHO Message: 4367 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/12/2007
Subject: search
Group: vintageHO Message: 4368 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Latest roster adds.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4369 From: curmudgeon Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Re: Latest roster adds.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4370 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Re: Latest roster adds.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4371 From: bongiovanni12001 Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Greenburg Varney book
Group: vintageHO Message: 4372 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 10/14/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book(Aux info)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4373 From: sean naylor Date: 10/15/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book
Group: vintageHO Message: 4374 From: Garry Date: 10/15/2007
Subject: For Sale PRR Passenger Cars: Assembled Older Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4375 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 10/15/2007
Subject: Re: For Sale PRR Passenger Cars: Assembled Older Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4376 From: bongiovanni12001 Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book
Group: vintageHO Message: 4377 From: Mike Christian Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Dave Spanagel's email
Group: vintageHO Message: 4378 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book
Group: vintageHO Message: 4379 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Dave Spanagel's email
Group: vintageHO Message: 4380 From: Earl Ray Saathoff Date: 10/16/2007
Subject: Re: Latest roster adds.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4381 From: Ray Hobin Date: 10/17/2007
Subject: Need to ID attacment nut...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4382 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 10/17/2007
Subject: Re: Need to ID attacment nut...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4383 From: rayzef Date: 10/18/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4384 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4385 From: erieberk Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4386 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4387 From: takefive247 Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney book
Group: vintageHO Message: 4388 From: bongiovanni12001 Date: 10/19/2007
Subject: Greenburg Varney Book
Group: vintageHO Message: 4389 From: erieberk Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4390 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Greenburg Varney Book
Group: vintageHO Message: 4391 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4392 From: erieberk Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4393 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4394 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4395 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/20/2007
Subject: Re: Boxcar Builder ID?
Group: vintageHO Message: 4396 From: erieberk Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4397 From: erieberk Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4398 From: erieberk Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4399 From: erieberk Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4400 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4401 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 4402 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4403 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4404 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by
Group: vintageHO Message: 4405 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4406 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4407 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 4408 From: donvdh Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Zamac components - acronym
Group: vintageHO Message: 4409 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym
Group: vintageHO Message: 4410 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4411 From: donvdh Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4412 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/22/2007
Subject: Re:
Group: vintageHO Message: 4413 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym
Group: vintageHO Message: 4414 From: erieberk Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4415 From: erieberk Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray
Group: vintageHO Message: 4416 From: erieberk Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4417 From: erieberk Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4418 From: erieberk Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4419 From: erieberk Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4420 From: erieberk Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym
Group: vintageHO Message: 4421 From: nycrrmitch Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
Group: vintageHO Message: 4422 From: Roger Aultman Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
Group: vintageHO Message: 4423 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - Blackener
Group: vintageHO Message: 4424 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 4425 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendiu
Group: vintageHO Message: 4426 From: donvdh Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: anodizing azamac
Group: vintageHO Message: 4427 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4428 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4429 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4430 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4431 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Re: Zamac components - acronym
Group: vintageHO Message: 4432 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 10/23/2007
Subject: Screens on the farm house
Group: vintageHO Message: 4433 From: erieberk Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4434 From: erieberk Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4435 From: erieberk Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4436 From: erieberk Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium -
Group: vintageHO Message: 4437 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4438 From: erieberk Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4439 From: Eric Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Vintage HO Motors
Group: vintageHO Message: 4440 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 4441 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [SPAM] [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Co
Group: vintageHO Message: 4442 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4443 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/24/2007
Subject: Re: Roundhouse/MDC Metal Car Compendium - by Ray Wetzel
Group: vintageHO Message: 4444 From: Mike Christian Date: 10/25/2007
Subject: Old MR, RMC & NMRA Bulletin mags with binders for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 4445 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/25/2007
Subject: Athearn RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4446 From: curmudgeon Date: 10/25/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4447 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4448 From: curmudgeon Date: 10/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4449 From: John Hagen Date: 10/27/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4450 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/28/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn RDC - NMRP REP???
Group: vintageHO Message: 4451 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/28/2007
Subject: Roundhouse switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 4452 From: John Hagen Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: Jerry White passes
Group: vintageHO Message: 4453 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: Re: Jerry White passes
Group: vintageHO Message: 4454 From: Tom Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: New here; old geezer; into modeling transition era in New England
Group: vintageHO Message: 4455 From: Russ Shiel Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: E&B Valley observation instruction sheet
Group: vintageHO Message: 4456 From: Mary Long Date: 10/30/2007
Subject: Re: E&B Valley observation instruction sheet
Group: vintageHO Message: 4457 From: Denny Anspach Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Jerry White passes
Group: vintageHO Message: 4458 From: Tom Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO Message: 4459 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO Message: 4460 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: E&B Valley observation instruction sheet
Group: vintageHO Message: 4461 From: Tom Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO Message: 4462 From: drpshops Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4463 From: Roger Aultman Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO Message: 4464 From: CinderCrusher Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO Message: 4465 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO Message: 4466 From: curmudgeon Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO Message: 4467 From: Bill C. Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4468 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Jerry White passes
Group: vintageHO Message: 4469 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO Message: 4470 From: curmudgeon Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4471 From: keith gutshall Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4472 From: Jerry Prather Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4473 From: jay matz Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4474 From: Mary Long Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4475 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4476 From: Loopy Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4477 From: John Hagen Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO Message: 4478 From: Glenn476 Date: 10/31/2007
Subject: Re: Bowser Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4479 From: sean naylor Date: 11/1/2007
Subject: Re: New here; old geezer; into modeling transition era in New Englan
Group: vintageHO Message: 4480 From: Tom Date: 11/1/2007
Subject: Re: New here; old geezer; into modeling transition era in New Englan
Group: vintageHO Message: 4481 From: Denny Anspach Date: 11/1/2007
Subject: Seek info on item/searching for others
Group: vintageHO Message: 4482 From: bitlerisvj Date: 11/4/2007
Subject: Ambroid No 10. Speedy Poultry and Reefer
Group: vintageHO Message: 4483 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/4/2007
Subject: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4484 From: curmudgeon Date: 11/4/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4485 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4486 From: curmudgeon Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4487 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4488 From: Wobbly913 Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4489 From: keith gutshall Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4490 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4491 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4492 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4493 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4494 From: curmudgeon Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4495 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4496 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4497 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4498 From: Wobbly913 Date: 11/5/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4499 From: Denny Anspach Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4500 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4501 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4502 From: curmudgeon Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Details West
Group: vintageHO Message: 4503 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4504 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO Message: 4505 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4506 From: Don Grant Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4507 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/6/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4508 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4509 From: erieberk Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO Message: 4510 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO Message: 4511 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4512 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO Message: 4513 From: Denny Anspach Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4514 From: curmudgeon Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO Message: 4515 From: keith gutshall Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4516 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4517 From: CinderCrusher Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: Details West
Group: vintageHO Message: 4518 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/7/2007
Subject: Re: RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 4519 From: Denny Anspach Date: 11/8/2007
Subject: Athearn metal RDCs/
Group: vintageHO Message: 4520 From: Glenn476 Date: 11/8/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn metal RDCs/
Group: vintageHO Message: 4521 From: Lee Date: 11/9/2007
Subject: Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4522 From: herb1013 Date: 11/9/2007
Subject: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4523 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4524 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4525 From: sean naylor Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: Couple questions re: brass locos and woodens car kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4526 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1 - access forbidden??
Group: vintageHO Message: 4527 From: herb1013 Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4528 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4529 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4530 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4531 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/10/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4532 From: Jim A. Howell Date: 11/11/2007
Subject: Brass Model Cleaning Suggestions & Tips Needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 4533 From: rayzef Date: 11/11/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4534 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4535 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4536 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Brass Model Cleaning Suggestions & Tips Neede
Group: vintageHO Message: 4537 From: Maynard Keith Franklin Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Ressurecting Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 4538 From: railwaymodeler Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: Ressurecting Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 4539 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO Message: 4540 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 11/12/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO Message: 4541 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 11/13/2007
Subject: Re: TRAINS
Group: vintageHO Message: 4542 From: rayzef Date: 11/13/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4543 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/13/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4544 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 11/14/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4545 From: rayzef Date: 11/14/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4546 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 11/14/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4547 From: curmudgeon Date: 11/15/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4548 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/15/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4549 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 11/15/2007
Subject: Re: HO Train Literature Page 1
Group: vintageHO Message: 4550 From: Larry Date: 11/18/2007
Subject: Literature Page @ HOseeker.net
Group: vintageHO Message: 4551 From: Jack Priller Date: 11/18/2007
Subject: Available: one old kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 4552 From: curmudgeon Date: 11/18/2007
Subject: International 2-bay hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 4553 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 11/22/2007
Subject: nome
Group: vintageHO Message: 4554 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 11/22/2007
Subject: Re: nome
Group: vintageHO Message: 4555 From: Ted Walton Date: 11/25/2007
Subject: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4556 From: curmudgeon Date: 11/25/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4557 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/25/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4558 From: Larry Date: 11/26/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4559 From: Ted Walton Date: 11/26/2007
Subject: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4560 From: curmudgeon Date: 11/26/2007
Subject: Re: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4561 From: Ted Walton Date: 11/27/2007
Subject: Brass Turnout parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4562 From: tnc200394 Date: 11/27/2007
Subject: Tru scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 4563 From: Frank Weed Date: 11/27/2007
Subject: Re: Tru scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 4564 From: Maynard Keith Franklin Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4565 From: jay matz Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4566 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4567 From: curmudgeon Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4568 From: A.W. Wallace Date: 11/30/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4569 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4570 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4571 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4572 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4573 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4574 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4575 From: railwaymodeler Date: 12/1/2007
Subject: Re: Old Silver Streak Reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 4576 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/3/2007
Subject: What I've been doing lately.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4577 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/3/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4578 From: Walter J. Bayer II Date: 12/3/2007
Subject: Walthers NYC 20th Century Ltd. heavyweight passenger cars-8 kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4579 From: Walter J. Bayer II Date: 12/4/2007
Subject: Blue Line PRR kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 4580 From: CinderCrusher Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: New Photo Album
Group: vintageHO Message: 4581 From: CinderCrusher Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: Re: New Photo Album
Group: vintageHO Message: 4582 From: railwaymodeler Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: Another 'Whodunit' Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 4583 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/5/2007
Subject: Re: Another 'Whodunit' Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 4584 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/6/2007
Subject: Re: Another 'Whodunit' Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 4585 From: tnc200394 Date: 12/7/2007
Subject: Hobbytown of Boston powered chassis's
Group: vintageHO Message: 4586 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/7/2007
Subject: 50s and early 60s HO for Sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 4587 From: Don Van Der Horn Date: 12/7/2007
Subject: Re: 50s and early 60s HO for Sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 4588 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: What I did this week
Group: vintageHO Message: 4589 From: railwaymodeler Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 4590 From: boomer44 Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Vintage cars.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4591 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 4592 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/8/2007
Subject: Re: Vintage cars.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4593 From: Jim Snyder Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Every once in a while...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4594 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Every once in a while...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4595 From: Denny Anspach Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 4596 From: railwaymodeler Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 4597 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 4598 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 12/9/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 4599 From: Denny Anspach Date: 12/10/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 4600 From: Denny Anspach Date: 12/11/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 4601 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/11/2007
Subject: Re: Yello Milwaukee Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 4602 From: sswcharlie Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4603 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4604 From: John Barlow Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4605 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4606 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/12/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4607 From: John Barlow Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4608 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190
Group: vintageHO Message: 4609 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4610 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4611 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack
Group: vintageHO Message: 4612 From: Denny Anspach Date: 12/13/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4613 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 12/14/2007
Subject: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4614 From: John Barlow Date: 12/14/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4615 From: Gerold Eckl Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4616 From: cnj999 Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4617 From: John Barlow Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4618 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4619 From: cnj999 Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: AT&SF M-190 (was: Walthers 6454 Shuttlejack)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4620 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4621 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4622 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4623 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4624 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 12/15/2007
Subject: none
Group: vintageHO Message: 4625 From: rayzef Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Red Ball Acid Tank Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 4626 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4627 From: John Barlow Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Re: The Rarest of Plastic Trolleys...Maybe (was: Suydam - Alpine)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4628 From: texpearson@AOL.com Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Looking for Mantua Stock Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4629 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4630 From: Paul Kayne Date: 12/16/2007
Subject: How about this for overhead!!
Group: vintageHO Message: 4631 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 12/17/2007
Subject: Re: Suydam - Alpine
Group: vintageHO Message: 4632 From: Jack Priller Date: 12/17/2007
Subject: Re: Available: one old kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 4633 From: Jay Matz Date: 12/17/2007
Subject: Red Ball Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 4634 From: cnj999 Date: 12/18/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 4635 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/18/2007
Subject: New Yahoo group
Group: vintageHO Message: 4636 From: Jack Priller Date: 12/18/2007
Subject: Re: Available: one old kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 4637 From: cnj999 Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Nitric Acid Car Kit Wrapper
Group: vintageHO Message: 4638 From: jay matz Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Nitric Acid Car Kit Wrapper
Group: vintageHO Message: 4639 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: Re: Red Ball Nitric Acid Car Kit Wrapper
Group: vintageHO Message: 4640 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/19/2007
Subject: What I've been doing
Group: vintageHO Message: 4641 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: Re: What I've been doing
Group: vintageHO Message: 4642 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: switches.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4643 From: curmudgeon Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4644 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/20/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4645 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4646 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4647 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4648 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/21/2007
Subject: Re: switches.
Group: vintageHO Message: 4649 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Christmas wishes
Group: vintageHO Message: 4650 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas wishes
Group: vintageHO Message: 4651 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Christmas Invitation - God bless you all
Group: vintageHO Message: 4652 From: Jay Matz Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO Message: 4653 From: John Hagen Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Holidays
Group: vintageHO Message: 4654 From: Henry Hultgren Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Thanks Fred !
Group: vintageHO Message: 4655 From: Mary Long Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO Message: 4656 From: oahurailway Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: MELE KALIKIMAKA!
Group: vintageHO Message: 4657 From: John Barlow Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: MELE KALIKIMAKA!
Group: vintageHO Message: 4658 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas wishes
Group: vintageHO Message: 4659 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Christmas Invitation - God bless you all
Group: vintageHO Message: 4660 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2007
Subject: Re: Christmas wishes
Group: vintageHO Message: 4661 From: louiskgreiff Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 4662 From: Walter J. Bayer II Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO Message: 4663 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Re: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 4664 From: louiskgreiff Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 4665 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/25/2007
Subject: Re: Kurtz Kraft Refrigerator Car Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 4666 From: Mike Christian Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4667 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4668 From: cnj999 Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4669 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 12/26/2007
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4670 From: Larry Date: 12/27/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4671 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/27/2007
Subject: FS: Old Passenger Trucks - Varney & Walthers - Cevtral Valley
Group: vintageHO Message: 4672 From: cnj999 Date: 12/27/2007
Subject: Re: Athearn 40' TOFC cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 4673 From: takefive247 Date: 12/28/2007
Subject: Help Identify & parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4674 From: Sean Naylor Date: 12/28/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identify & parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4675 From: Jack Priller Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 4676 From: Henry Hultgren Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 4677 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 4678 From: Jack Priller Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 4679 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 4680 From: CinderCrusher Date: 12/29/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 4681 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 4682 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 4683 From: takefive247 Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Help Identify & parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 4684 From: Howard R Garner Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Need a little help with ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 4685 From: holat88 Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO Message: 4686 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO Message: 4687 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO Message: 4688 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO Message: 4689 From: Jim Snyder Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: My Christmas Present...to myself
Group: vintageHO Message: 4690 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO Message: 4691 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A parts request
Group: vintageHO Message: 4692 From: holat88 Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 4693 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 4694 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Christmas Present...to myself
Group: vintageHO Message: 4695 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 4696 From: Sean Naylor Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: I need help identifying a Japan import Lil Joe 0-4-0 with an (F) bui
Group: vintageHO Message: 4697 From: bslook@aol.com Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: I need help identifying a Japan import Lil Joe 0-4-0 with an ...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4698 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: My Christmas Present...to myself
Group: vintageHO Message: 4699 From: Larry Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: I need help identifying a Japan import Lil Joe 0-4-0 with an ...
Group: vintageHO Message: 4700 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/30/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 4701 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 4702 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 4703 From: curmudgeon Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 4704 From: Glenn476 Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 4705 From: holat88 Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 4706 From: curmudgeon Date: 12/31/2007
Subject: Re: Varney F-3 A boards



Group: vintageHO Message: 1905 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Glenn wrote:
> I'll bet the instrux call for "4-10-M'" paint.
>
> If anyone comes up with a match mix or the 4-10-M paints, as well as the
> MDC paints--it sould be a service to the hobby (at least this part of
> it) to record the mix. The tinplate collectors have lines of paint to
> match the old Lionel and Ives colors--but I think thier market is bigger
> than ours.

I have used the equivalent Floquil colors as a substitute for the
paints called out for old Central Valley, Silver Streak and Ulrich kits
with satisfactory results. The color matches on things such as boxcar
red or reefer yellow appeared to be close enough.

--

Rick Jones

The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1906 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"
Thanks!
 
Andy Emmerson.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"

You might contact Kalmbach who now owns Greenberg Publishing (who published the book - I have one).
 
By the way, I got a Varney item off ebay long ago that might amuse both that author and this group.  It is the "Li'L Raskal Wreck Proof Train".  It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the book and you might mention that to the author is you reach him.
 
I bought one that had pretty good contents in a pretty bad box.  Later, another ebayer got a pretty good box with some missing contents.  I thought the world would be better with at least one nice sample and sold mine to the guy to put together one fairly good set.  And it  definitely seems pretty "wreck proof".
 
I have attached photos of the thing.
 
Chuck Kinzer
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:35 AM
Subject: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel?

I would like to get in touch with John Spanagel about his Varney book and
just wondered if he is a member of this forum.

His snail mail address is on the NMRA website but an e-mail would be simpler
and faster. Any help most welcome!

Thanks,
Andrew Emmerson (in England)

Group: vintageHO Message: 1907 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"
David's (J.David Spanagel) ebay ID is " 2ndchance$ " if you want to get to him that way.  He'll be happy to reply back off line.
 
 
Dan Bush
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"

Thanks!
 
Andy Emmerson.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"

You might contact Kalmbach who now owns Greenberg Publishing (who published the book - I have one).
 
By the way, I got a Varney item off ebay long ago that might amuse both that author and this group.  It is the "Li'L Raskal Wreck Proof Train".  It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the book and you might mention that to the author is you reach him.
 
I bought one that had pretty good contents in a pretty bad box.  Later, another ebayer got a pretty good box with some missing contents.  I thought the world would be better with at least one nice sample and sold mine to the guy to put together one fairly good set.  And it  definitely seems pretty "wreck proof".
 
I have attached photos of the thing.
 
Chuck Kinzer
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:35 AM
Subject: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel?

I would like to get in touch with John Spanagel about his Varney book and
just wondered if he is a member of this forum.

His snail mail address is on the NMRA website but an e-mail would be simpler
and faster. Any help most welcome!

Thanks,
Andrew Emmerson (in England)

Group: vintageHO Message: 1908 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/1/2007
Subject: What I did today.
Attachments :
    Well, at the risk of offending the purists, I did it (Roger said I could!)

    Still needs the handrails painted and decals, but the HObbyline H-10-44 is
    in "Milwaukee Northern" paint.
    (Also did some cleaning and tune-up on the Varney NW-2 to the point where
    she runs well enough to actually do some switching {with the MRC Golden
    Throttle Pack" set on "pulse}).

    Don

    don.dellmann@...
    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
    Owner-Moderator
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
    Co-moderator
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
    Group: vintageHO Message: 1909 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/1/2007
    Subject: Re: What I did today.
    Looks good Don, a fitting paint scheme for a Hobbyline. Roger






    Don Dellmann wrote:
    > Well, at the risk of offending the purists, I did it (Roger said I could!)
    >

    >
    > Don
    >
    > don.dellmann@...
    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
    > Owner-Moderator
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
    > Co-moderator
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
    >
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >


    --
    http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
    Group: vintageHO Message: 1910 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2007
    Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
    I remember that--then they had their own line--the bottles were strangely
    like the 4-10-M bottles. gj
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:19 PM
    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar


    > Nope, but I do agree that some of the older pre-painted Roundhouse Metal
    > kits called for 410 M paint. These Ambroid instructions call for simply
    > "Boxcar Red" and do not identify any paint manufacturer. I think I came
    > up
    > with a decent match using Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red in Polyscaled
    > paints. So far I have tried a 50/50 mix of each, but I will update this
    > list with my final choice. It may end up being a 66/33 mix of these
    > colors.
    > I am hoping to start painting by the end of next week.
    >
    > Vic Bitleris
    > Raleigh, NC
    >
    >
    >
    > ----Original Message Follows----
    > From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...>
    > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
    > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
    > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
    > Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:02:49 -0800
    >
    > I'll bet the instrux call for "4-10-M'" paint.
    >
    > If anyone comes up with a match mix or the 4-10-M paints, as well as the
    > MDC
    > paints--it sould be a service to the hobby (at least this part of it) to
    > record the mix. The tinplate collectors have lines of paint to match the
    > old Lionel and Ives colors--but I think thier market is bigger than ours.
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Don Dellmann
    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
    > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:09 PM
    > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
    >
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...>
    > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:17 PM
    > Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
    >
    > > Hi group,
    > > I just found this group and am hoping for some expert help. I am
    > > almost finished building the subject ACL Ventilated Boxcar and am a
    > > little confused. The instructions call for Boxcar Red as the paint
    > > color, but the Boxcar Red I have in Polyscale is really closer to
    > > Tuscan or more of a Brownish color. The pre-painted sides are more
    > > Red than the Polyscale Boxcar Red. Will I need to mix my own colors,
    > > or does anyone know if there is a Boxcar Red still available that may
    > > work? I haven't tried a new Floquil Boxcar Red, because I hate the
    > > NEW Floquil formula paint. It isn't anything close to the old Floquil
    > > paint that I used to use a long time ago. Anybody have any clues for
    > > marrying old kits with modern paints? The bad part is I have several
    > > Ambroid kits with some pre-painted parts. I have several stock car
    > > kits and the Pickle Car kit. I also have some Silver Streak cars with
    > > some pre-painted sides. I am wondering if I would be better off
    > > putting them on eBay, but I love building them.
    > > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
    >
    > Don't give up, build them!
    >
    > It may take some mixing and experimenting to get the color right, but it
    > will be worth it.
    >
    > I would NOT use polyscale on a wood kit (in fact I wouldn't use it on
    > anything, but that's personal opinion).
    >
    > I do still use solvent based Floquil, while it's not as good las it used
    > to
    > be, it's still better than most acrylics. Try various mixes of Boxcar
    > red,
    > Tuscan and roof brown. The only acrylic I use and love is "Ceramcoat"
    > (available at any craft store, most Walmarts, and many "big box" home
    > improvement stores). It is not good for metal, but works well on wood.
    > Try
    > their "red iron oxide" and/or "barn red".
    >
    > The other one you might try is Scalecoat if you can find it (although I
    > was
    > never a big scalecoat fan), if you want acrylics, theirs is/was
    > "Scalcoat
    > II".
    >
    > Don
    >
    > don.dellmann@...
    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
    > Owner-Moderator
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
    > Co-moderator
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
    >
    > _________________________________________________________________
    > Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
    > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Group: vintageHO Message: 1911 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2007
    Subject: Re: Number Boards
    It would be great if someone would do those in clear plastic, like the ones in the Scalelite lighting kits. The originals were black plastic.  Since the number boards are a "standard item" I'm surprised that someone like Detail Associates hasn't done them.  Particularly since when Athearn "simplified" the F-7 tooling to include them on the body shell they messed up the contours. gj
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: nycrrmitch
    Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:05 PM
    Subject: [vintageHO] Number Boards

    Hi:
    I have a Varney F3 that is missing Number Boards and would very happy
    if someone could tell me where to get a pair that I could use for
    replacement. I think the originals were clear plastic. But, that is
    only a guess. When I got the engine, it was just the shell. It now has
    a Hobbytown drive and runs great.
    Thanks,
    Joe Mitchell

    Group: vintageHO Message: 1912 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2007
    Subject: Re: Number Boards
    I have two ABBA sets in D&RGW--one black & yellow, the other silver & gold with 4-stripes.  Both sets have Zamak shells for the leading AB, Hobbytown Multi-drives with what we were calling the "Holland" can motors in the B units.  Bugboards were from Details West. Trailing dummy units are plastic later Varney shells. I have a third ABA set with the Varney drives in the lead AB, plastic trailing A. gj
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:25 PM
    Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Number Boards

    Mine were black plastic, but I did not realize that until I destroyed them
    when I removed the paint using lacquer thinner. Currently, I decided to use
    some Details Associates number boards and filled in the existing holes with
    styrene. These are OK, but I feel like the originals would be better. If
    you find a source for these number boards, I would be very interested. I
    also have mine running with a Hobbytown chassis. I need to get the
    companion chassis for the B-Unit as well. Then I need to put a healthy
    decoder in it. This guy shpuld be able to pull a LOT of cars.

    Vic Bitleris
    Raleigh, NC

    ----Original Message Follows----
    From: "nycrrmitch" <nycrrmitch@earthlin k.net>
    Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
    Subject: [vintageHO] Number Boards
    Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 02:05:00 -0000

    Hi:
    I have a Varney F3 that is missing Number Boards and would very happy
    if someone could tell me where to get a pair that I could use for
    replacement. I think the originals were clear plastic. But, that is
    only a guess. When I got the engine, it was just the shell. It now has
    a Hobbytown drive and runs great.
    Thanks,
    Joe Mitchell

    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
    >From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
    it all. http://tv.msn. com/tv/globes200 7/

    Group: vintageHO Message: 1913 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2007
    Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
    But--your lacquer primer is sealing the wood. Problem solved.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:13 PM
    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar


    > Hi folks,
    > I dunno what the case is against using Polyscale paints on wood kits is,
    > but
    > I have used Polyscale or other acrylic paints on wood kits for quite some
    > time. I do not ever have any problems with the wood warping or coming
    > apart. I do admit, I used to worry less when I used solvent type paints,
    > but over the last few years, I found it is not necessary to use these. I
    > use Yellow Glue for putting the kits together. While this is not
    > "waterproof", it is indeed water resistant and seems to work better than
    > the
    > White Glue. I have put together about 6 structure kits and at least 3 car
    > kits together and painted them using Polyscale paints. I brush painted at
    > least one of the cars, a Quality Craft Pennsy Caboose, with no ill
    > effects.
    > I would not "soak" the paint in, but on the other hand, I am not "dry"
    > brushing either. However, I don't mind saying that when I air brushed the
    > OSL (Taurus) Stock Car, I was quite liberal with the paint and almost felt
    > that it was a bit too wet. The car turned out great and suffered no ill
    > effects at all. I use Windex or some similar Window cleaner for Acrylic
    > thinner or solvent and cannot complain at all. I am also building some
    > Ambroid B&M open platform passenger cars and am planning on brushing them
    > with Badger Model Flex, also an acrylic, because they have the correct
    > color
    > for the B&M Maroon cars. One of my practices (but, not always) is to
    > spray
    > auto primer, a lacquer, prior to acrylic painting. This allows quite a
    > bit
    > of flexibility for weathering, etc. But, is not required to keep the wood
    > stable.
    >
    > Vic Bitleris
    > Raleigh, NC
    >
    >
    >
    > ----Original Message Follows----
    > From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...>
    > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
    > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
    > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
    > Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:51:27 -0800
    >
    > I would be quite wary of mixing wood kits with anything with water in it.
    > Bad experience with some LaBelle passenger cars some years ago (Yes--I
    > went
    > back and found the warning in the instructions)--in that case the liberal
    > application of bricks overcame the effects of white glue--but I think a
    > built-up car could be totalled.Similar problem on a Tomalco reefer when
    > setting decals--gj
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: bitlerisvj
    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
    > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 7:17 PM
    > Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
    >
    >
    > Hi group,
    > I just found this group and am hoping for some expert help. I am
    > almost finished building the subject ACL Ventilated Boxcar and am a
    > little confused. The instructions call for Boxcar Red as the paint
    > color, but the Boxcar Red I have in Polyscale is really closer to
    > Tuscan or more of a Brownish color. The pre-painted sides are more
    > Red than the Polyscale Boxcar Red. Will I need to mix my own colors,
    > or does anyone know if there is a Boxcar Red still available that may
    > work? I haven't tried a new Floquil Boxcar Red, because I hate the
    > NEW Floquil formula paint. It isn't anything close to the old Floquil
    > paint that I used to use a long time ago. Anybody have any clues for
    > marrying old kits with modern paints? The bad part is I have several
    > Ambroid kits with some pre-painted parts. I have several stock car
    > kits and the Pickle Car kit. I also have some Silver Streak cars with
    > some pre-painted sides. I am wondering if I would be better off
    > putting them on eBay, but I love building them.
    > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
    >
    > _________________________________________________________________
    > Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
    > Sales & Deals
    > http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Group: vintageHO Message: 1914 From: oahurailway Date: 1/1/2007
    Subject: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
    Maybe it was the white glue I used on the two LaBelle Stockcars which
    can be viewed at my photo album "1941 Varney 6V Dockside" that warped
    them so badly?! Ken
    Group: vintageHO Message: 1915 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 1/2/2007
    Subject: Has anyone been thru this?
    I am trying to rebuild some MU-2 power trucks.I have source for new
    gears.Tha almighty question is how do I determine what is a lefthand
    worm from a righthand worm? Do you look at it from output end or the
    driven end? Any info will be appreciated.
    Group: vintageHO Message: 1916 From: jerrygart5 Date: 1/3/2007
    Subject: Re: Has anyone been thru this?
    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "kilbeggan68" <wedfrentz@...> wrote:
    >
    > I am trying to rebuild some MU-2 power trucks.I have source for new
    > gears.Tha almighty question is how do I determine what is a
    lefthand
    > worm from a righthand worm? Do you look at it from output end or
    the
    > driven end? Any info will be appreciated.
    >
    The simple answer is: if you look at a worm from the top,follow a
    thread; right hand thread goes \\\\\. Left hand thread goes /////.
    Does not matter which way you look at it-from input or output end.
    Right hand thread is the "standard" for US gears. If you want to
    really know a lot about gears, go to Northwest Short Line web site
    (www.nwsl.com), look under "catalog", and then "section 6-2". I do
    not see where it would make any difference in what you select-but the
    worm "hand" must match the gear "hand". Another important aspect:
    be sure the worm pitch matches the gear pitch; any differences-even
    small- will result in accelerated wear and failure of the drive.
    That's why it's important to consider replacing both the worm and
    gear in an assembly using both from the same manufacturer. (By the
    way, NWSL makes sets for most all locomotives; if you don't see it in
    their catalog, call and they will work with you to get you what you
    need. They are great people to deal with.) Hope this helps!
    JerryG.
    Group: vintageHO Message: 1917 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/3/2007
    Subject: Latest addition
    Attachments :
      Got the last car from the last eBay box running, this is a MARX car.

      Now to wait for the next batch, last of the Christmas bonus went, waiting on
      the Erie and about 25 more cars!

      Don

      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      Owner-Moderator
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      Co-moderator
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1918 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/3/2007
      Subject: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
      If anybody wants, I can post this fix (and photos) I generated today
      for keeping the trucks in the chassis when the "U" clips break.
      Since these clips are made of un-obtainium, this has gotten one of our
      old workhorses back in trace.
      One of the guys on hoseeker forums has hard parts for the other of the
      A-B set, so we'll be back up and running.

      Dave
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1919 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/3/2007
      Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
      I have several of those units.  I would be interested in seeing your fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      Wobbly913

      curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
      If anybody wants, I can post this fix (and photos) I generated today
      for keeping the trucks in the chassis when the "U" clips break.
      Since these clips are made of un-obtainium, this has gotten one of our
      old workhorses back in trace.
      One of the guys on hoseeker forums has hard parts for the other of the
      A-B set, so we'll be back up and running.

      Dave




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      Group: vintageHO Message: 1920 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/3/2007
      Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
      You mean you didn't do that on purpose?
      I've had wooden "0" scale cars bow, but keeping them away from
      moisture and bracing them inside (hard to do on a stock car) fixed
      them.

      On another subject in the same photo montage, I have a Varney
      Docksider with that early pickup (one wheel) arrangement, and am
      going to convert it to later dual-wheel pickup so I can run it.
      But, I've run mine on 12v with the other Varney, and I don't think
      mine is 6V.
      Other than that bit on top at the brushes and speed comparisons, any
      way to tell?

      Dave

      >
      > Maybe it was the white glue I used on the two LaBelle Stockcars
      which
      > can be viewed at my photo album "1941 Varney 6V Dockside" that
      warped
      > them so badly?! Ken
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1921 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/3/2007
      Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
      All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics.


      >
      > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your
      fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      > Wobbly913
      >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1922 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 1/3/2007
      Subject: Globe drive parts
      Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: idioticyahoo@...
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

      All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics.

      >
      > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your
      fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      > Wobbly913
      >
      >


      Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1923 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
      Stephen L.
       
      Thanks for your reply.
      I do not have a parts list, not sure what you refer to as the dog bone.
       
      For one unit I need the plastic piece that connects the motor to the tower on top of the truck, and the cover or lid of the truck body...the kingpin is broken off leaving the truck floating on the frame.
      For the other unit I need the worm geared shaft that runs between the axles and connects to the gear on the tower.
      In general I was looking for a future source of parts for potential failures, I like to run my vintage models.
       
      Wobbly913


      MRLENGAL2U@... wrote:
      Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: idioticyahoo@...
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

      All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics.

      >
      > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your
      fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      > Wobbly913
      >
      >


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      Group: vintageHO Message: 1924 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 11:14 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix


      > All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics.
      >
      >
      >>
      >> I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your
      > fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      >> Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      >> Wobbly913

      Do you want to just send them to the group as an email, or acrchive them?
      If the former, how do you post messages, on the web or with a mail reader
      program?
      Using something like outlook express, as long as they're .jpg files (no
      others are allowed as atachments), just write message, and click on the
      "attach" icon (in OE it's a little paper clip) which will open a window
      letting you browse your hard drive to find the file). On the web, there
      should be a button marked "attach files" when you're done composing your
      message. Then do the same thing.

      To archive them, go to the group home page, click on photos, then "create an
      album" and follow the instructions.

      If they're anything other than .jpgs, let me know offlist and I'll tell you
      what to do.

      Don

      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      Owner-Moderator
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      Co-moderator
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1925 From: John Hagen Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix
      May I suggest that on something like this, repair procedures, be
      archieved? This is something that ol' Melvin Blow (Joe's brother) may
      look for 6 months down the road and a photo that only be viewed in an
      email sent to a finite number of people will be quite useless. Your
      membership is always in flex and current members that do not own
      and/or do not plan on owning such a piece of equipment now just may
      end up with some eventually. As stated by Don, it is relatively eassy
      to post them in a photo album.

      John Hagen

      -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > To archive them, go to the group home page, click on photos,
      then "create an
      > album" and follow the instructions.
      >
      > If they're anything other than .jpgs, let me know offlist and I'll
      tell you
      > what to do.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      > Owner-Moderator
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      > Co-moderator
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1926 From: Lance Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Missing instructions
      Hello,
      I'm a newcomer to this group. I like to run old stuff with my new.

      I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train show.
      It is in perfect shape, complete and in the box. Looks like it would
      build into a pretty nice loco....except...it is missing the
      instructions. I could probably figure it out in a pinch, but they would
      sure help!

      Does anyone have these?

      Thanks,
      Lance
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1927 From: oahurailway Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
      > .I have a Varney
      > Docksider with that early pickup (one wheel) arrangement, and am
      > going to convert it to later dual-wheel pickup so I can run it.
      > But, I've run mine on 12v with the other Varney, and I don't think
      > mine is 6V.
      > Other than that bit on top at the brushes and speed comparisons, any
      > way to tell?
      >
      > Dave
      >
      > >Hi Dave,

      Yes, I've used white Weldbond brand glue on wooden cars with no
      problems of wood warpage. My "swaybacks" are steam warped. If you have
      a Varney "Dockside" with the left rear driver electrical p/u, unless
      someone has subsequently changed the motor to the later 12V Pitman DC-
      60, it's the first 6V Pitman. You can easily tell the difference
      between the two by looking at the armature poles or "sections". The 6V
      Pitman had three poles, & the 12V DC-60 had five poles. For heavy
      running, you can easily replace the 6V Pitman with the 12V DC-60, &
      just leave the one driver electrical p/u which will be fine. Hope this
      helps....Ken
      > >
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1928 From: oahurailway Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Missing instructions
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lance" <davinci1953@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello,
      > I'm a newcomer to this group. I like to run old stuff with my new.
      >
      > I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train
      show.
      > It is in perfect shape, complete and in the box. Looks like it would
      > build into a pretty nice loco....except...it is missing the
      > instructions. I could probably figure it out in a pinch, but they
      would
      > sure help!
      >
      > Does anyone have these?
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Lance
      >
      Welcome to the group Lance! You may find the instruction sheets
      under "Tyco" at http//:hoseeker.net Hope this helps....Ken
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1929 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
      I have the chassis in my hand.
      The bottom cover is the extended one that angles up in the back with
      the motor screw through it, and the "gap" for the fibre spacer (don't
      think I have that), and the insulated wheels on the right side, not
      the left, and the wires to the motor on opposite sides that the later
      Varney Docksider I have.....yet it has 5 poles.
      Very strange.


      If you have
      > a Varney "Dockside" with the left rear driver electrical p/u, unless
      > someone has subsequently changed the motor to the later 12V Pitman
      DC-
      > 60, it's the first 6V Pitman. You can easily tell the difference
      > between the two by looking at the armature poles or "sections". The
      6V
      > Pitman had three poles, & the 12V DC-60 had five poles. For heavy
      > running, you can easily replace the 6V Pitman with the 12V DC-60, &
      > just leave the one driver electrical p/u which will be fine. Hope
      this
      > helps....Ken
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1930 From: oahurailway Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I have the chassis in my hand.
      > The bottom cover is the extended one that angles up in the back
      with
      > the motor screw through it, and the "gap" for the fibre spacer
      (don't
      > think I have that), and the insulated wheels on the right side, not
      > the left, and the wires to the motor on opposite sides that the
      later
      > Varney Docksider I have.....yet it has 5 poles.
      > Very strange.
      >
      >Yep, you've got at least the 1941 65 year old "pre-war" "Dockside"
      frame! Sounds like someone replaced the 6V Pitman with a 12V variety.
      And, you're absolutely right that the early "Dockside's" drivers were
      insulated on the right side as both of mine are. A fibre spacer can
      be fabricated from a small piece of "circuit board" if you want to
      insulate the motor wire from the frame at that connection. Otherwise,
      if the piece runs forward when it's supposed to run forward you don't
      need to do anything to it....Ken
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      >
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1931 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: 6V motor, was LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.
      Absolutely fascinating!
       
      Does anyone have a 6V motor suitable for the Varney Docksider that they'd consider selling to me or trading for 1940s model catalogs?
       
      Andy Emmerson.
       
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 9:13 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: LaBelle "Swayback" Stockcar.

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I have the chassis in my hand.
      > The bottom cover is the extended one that angles up in the back
      with
      > the motor screw through it, and the "gap" for the fibre spacer
      (don't
      > think I have that), and the insulated wheels on the right side, not
      > the left, and the wires to the motor on opposite sides that the
      later
      > Varney Docksider I have.....yet it has 5 poles.
      > Very strange.
      >
      >Yep, you've got at least the 1941 65 year old "pre-war" "Dockside"
      frame! Sounds like someone replaced the 6V Pitman with a 12V variety.
      And, you're absolutely right that the early "Dockside's" drivers were
      insulated on the right side as both of mine are. A fibre spacer can
      be fabricated from a small piece of "circuit board" if you want to
      insulate the motor wire from the frame at that connection. Otherwise,
      if the piece runs forward when it's supposed to run forward you don't
      need to do anything to it....Ken
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      >
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >

      Group: vintageHO Message: 1932 From: Glenn Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
      Now that I recall it--that drive re-surfaced as "Olympic Express"--which should give another name to look for.  Japanese made. 
       
      They say that everything improves with age, but as I remember those were one of the best HO diesel drives ever made. gj
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Wobbly913
      Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 12:00 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts

      Stephen L.
       
      Thanks for your reply.
      I do not have a parts list, not sure what you refer to as the dog bone.
       
      For one unit I need the plastic piece that connects the motor to the tower on top of the truck, and the cover or lid of the truck body...the kingpin is broken off leaving the truck floating on the frame.
      For the other unit I need the worm geared shaft that runs between the axles and connects to the gear on the tower.
      In general I was looking for a future source of parts for potential failures, I like to run my vintage models.
       
      Wobbly913


      MRLENGAL2U@aol. com wrote:
      Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com
      To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
      Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

      All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics.

      >
      > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your
      fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      > Wobbly913
      >
      >


      Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
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      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail. yahoo.com

      Group: vintageHO Message: 1933 From: Glenn Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
      I recognize that drive--if you can't find the Athearn/Globe u-joints, get the old Hobbytown ones--I think that Micro Mark has them now. gj
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 11:03 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts

      Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com
      To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
      Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

      All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics.

      >
      > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your
      fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      > Wobbly913
      >
      >


      Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

      Group: vintageHO Message: 1934 From: Glenn Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Missing instructions
      I have not found my Mantua parts catalog since unpacking my library--but that loco is fairly straight-forward.  It is very similar to the Rogers 4-6-0 that is based on Sierra #3.  If you have a specific problem as to what goes where, ask me--
       
      One thing it needs is to fill the cab with lead--just enough room for the motor, otherwise it is nose-heavy and won't pull worth beans. gj
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Lance
      Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 5:37 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Missing instructions

      Hello,
      I'm a newcomer to this group. I like to run old stuff with my new.

      I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train show.
      It is in perfect shape, complete and in the box. Looks like it would
      build into a pretty nice loco....except. ..it is missing the
      instructions. I could probably figure it out in a pinch, but they would
      sure help!

      Does anyone have these?

      Thanks,
      Lance

      Group: vintageHO Message: 1935 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Missing instructions
      Dan has these up on his website Yardbird Trains, 4 pages,
      http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/SpecsM12Whlr.htm
      http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/SpecsM12Whlr2.htm
      http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/SpecsM12Whlr3.htm
      http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/SpecsM12Whlr4.htm
      All there. Hope that helps.

      Dave



      > Hello,
      > I'm a newcomer to this group. I like to run old stuff with my new.
      >
      > I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train
      show.
      > It is in perfect shape, complete and in the box. Looks like it would
      > build into a pretty nice loco....except...it is missing the
      > instructions. I could probably figure it out in a pinch, but they
      would
      > sure help!
      >
      > Does anyone have these?
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Lance
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1936 From: dhopf1 Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Missing instructions
      > I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train
      show.

      The Yardbird website has a instruction for the 4-8-0. Here's the
      address for the page that has the instruction.

      http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/YBMspecs.htm

      Hope this helps

      Don Hopf
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1937 From: Lance Russwurm Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Missing instructions
      Thanks, Glen and Ken.....
      I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker.
      Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it.
       
      Great first results with this group!
       
      Lance

      oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lance" <davinci1953@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello,
      > I'm a newcomer to this group. I like to run old stuff with my new.
      >
      > I recently bought a Tycho 1880's 12 wheeler loco kit at a train
      show.
      > It is in perfect shape, complete and in the box. Looks like it would
      > build into a pretty nice loco....except. ..it is missing the
      > instructions. I could probably figure it out in a pinch, but they
      would
      > sure help!
      >
      > Does anyone have these?
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Lance
      >
      Welcome to the group Lance! You may find the instruction sheets
      under "Tyco" at http//:hoseeker. net Hope this helps....Ken




      Lance Russwurm
       
       

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      Group: vintageHO Message: 1938 From: oahurailway Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Missing instructions
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lance Russwurm <davinci1953@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Thanks, Glen and Ken.....
      > I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker.
      > Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it.
      >
      > Great first results with this group!
      >
      > Lance
      >
      > Great Lance! Glad you found the instructions you needed! Now be
      sure to keep us all posted of your construction progress! Ken
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > http://mail.yahoo.com
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1939 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
      Thanks for the tip.  I will look into Micro Mark.
       
      Wobbly913

      Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
      I recognize that drive--if you can't find the Athearn/Globe u-joints, get the old Hobbytown ones--I think that Micro Mark has them now. gj
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 11:03 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts

      Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com
      To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
      Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

      All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics.

      >
      > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your
      fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      > Wobbly913
      >
      >


      Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

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      Group: vintageHO Message: 1940 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
      I have two of those Olympic Express F7's, they are great runners.  I will have to take a closer look at them as compared to my globe units. I have a third Globe that is also an excelent running engine...even though it is about 50 years old.  That is why I would like to get the other two Globes up and running as well.
       
      Wobbly913

      Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
      Now that I recall it--that drive re-surfaced as "Olympic Express"--which should give another name to look for.  Japanese made. 
       
      They say that everything improves with age, but as I remember those were one of the best HO diesel drives ever made. gj
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Wobbly913
      Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 12:00 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts

      Stephen L.
       
      Thanks for your reply.
      I do not have a parts list, not sure what you refer to as the dog bone.
       
      For one unit I need the plastic piece that connects the motor to the tower on top of the truck, and the cover or lid of the truck body...the kingpin is broken off leaving the truck floating on the frame.
      For the other unit I need the worm geared shaft that runs between the axles and connects to the gear on the tower.
      In general I was looking for a future source of parts for potential failures, I like to run my vintage models.
       
      Wobbly913


      MRLENGAL2U@aol. com wrote:
      Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com
      To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
      Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

      All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics.

      >
      > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your
      fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      > Wobbly913
      >
      >


      Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

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      Group: vintageHO Message: 1941 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
      Things I picked up over the years.
      Someone asked about a 4-8-0.......so I dug mine out.

      Rubber tires?

      No idea vintage, says "Mantua".

      Then, there is a plastic 0-4-0 that says (faintly) Mantua.
      Saddle tank, but with the smokebox sticking out so not a "Docksider".
      Can't find it in the spec sheets yet. Missing the plastic
      snap-on headlight is all.

      Then there is one I have no idea, as no name anywhere.
      Similar body, but at least an inch longer, cab roof extends all the
      way to the back of the fuel bunker. 0-6-0, looks like it could use a
      trailing truck, there is so much rearward overhang.
      Crosshead guides are square brass like a Yardbird and Varney
      Docksider, no name on the bottom plate, PLASTIC shell, has reduction
      gears you can see, main gear offset to the side of the opening in
      the bottom cover. All meat chassis, pilot deck and cylinders, thin
      siderods, looks like cast main and crosshead.
      Guess I'll go tear it down for an inspection and see what I have.

      Okay, this 0-6-0 is strange.
      The ONLY numbers anywhere are on the rear crosshead support (cast,
      with rivet detail), 01-103.
      Slide valve (flat-top cylinders), wire to simulate inside valve
      gear, diamond-plate front deck, lead weight that is cast with full
      rivet detail where it is exposed under the plastic, rivet detail on
      the cylinder saddle, cast air pump on the fireman's side of the
      smokebox.
      I am looking at a "kit", as the metal parts are hand-painted with
      Floquil (badly). I fixed the "badly" part for now.
      The bottom cover is Phillips-head sheet metal screws, not machone
      slotted.
      There is another set of driver journals, just forward of #1 and aft
      of #3, like you could have a "stretch" version.
      The motor, while open-frame, is weird, in that the front plate is
      plastic, with the spring for the brushes pivoted at the bottom, the
      spring wires run vertically up past the shaft to contact the brushes
      at the top.

      I found what I think it is.

      An MDC "Yardhog", except no idea on vintage, as all the spec sheets
      I can find so far show a classic worm and worm gear, not a gear
      reduction.
      This thing, at wide-open throttle, creeps.

      Keeper!

      This is really strange.
      Two months ago I didn't have any Half-Zero out, now I've got all our
      old stuff and rebuilding it.

      9 older or die-cast steamers, 2 cast diesels, a bunch of old Athearn
      diesels.........with all the rolling stock, I could start a
      railroad......
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1942 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
      Sounds like an early late-model Yardhog by MDC.
       
      I have the 0-6-0 w/tender cersion - slow and creepy(nice that way) but awful noisy! Vintage about 1986 or so.
       
      I also have the old cast version - several in varying states of repair - not as slow but heavier and relatively quiet for their age.
       
      My 1958 Yardhog($8.50 when Dad got it for me) has about had it - but she took a lot of abuse thgrough my young teen years and kept coming back for more. Finally died of a number ofthings but the killer was that the magent got weak!
       
      Fred(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

      curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
      Things I picked up over the years.
      Someone asked about a 4-8-0.......so I dug mine out.

      Rubber tires?

      No idea vintage, says "Mantua".

      Then, there is a plastic 0-4-0 that says (faintly) Mantua.
      Saddle tank, but with the smokebox sticking out so not a "Docksider".
      Can't find it in the spec sheets yet. Missing the plastic
      snap-on headlight is all.

      Then there is one I have no idea, as no name anywhere.
      Similar body, but at least an inch longer, cab roof extends all the
      way to the back of the fuel bunker. 0-6-0, looks like it could use a
      trailing truck, there is so much rearward overhang.
      Crosshead guides are square brass like a Yardbird and Varney
      Docksider, no name on the bottom plate, PLASTIC shell, has reduction
      gears you can see, main gear offset to the side of the opening in
      the bottom cover. All meat chassis, pilot deck and cylinders, thin
      siderods, looks like cast main and crosshead.
      Guess I'll go tear it down for an inspection and see what I have.

      Okay, this 0-6-0 is strange.
      The ONLY numbers anywhere are on the rear crosshead support (cast,
      with rivet detail), 01-103.
      Slide valve (flat-top cylinders), wire to simulate inside valve
      gear, diamond-plate front deck, lead weight that is cast with full
      rivet detail where it is exposed under the plastic, rivet detail on
      the cylinder saddle, cast air pump on the fireman's side of the
      smokebox.
      I am looking at a "kit", as the metal parts are hand-painted with
      Floquil (badly). I fixed the "badly" part for now.
      The bottom cover is Phillips-head sheet metal screws, not machone
      slotted.
      There is another set of driver journals, just forward of #1 and aft
      of #3, like you could have a "stretch" version.
      The motor, while open-frame, is weird, in that the front plate is
      plastic, with the spring for the brushes pivoted at the bottom, the
      spring wires run vertically up past the shaft to contact the brushes
      at the top.

      I found what I think it is.

      An MDC "Yardhog", except no idea on vintage, as all the spec sheets
      I can find so far show a classic worm and worm gear, not a gear
      reduction.
      This thing, at wide-open throttle, creeps.

      Keeper!

      This is really strange.
      Two months ago I didn't have any Half-Zero out, now I've got all our
      old stuff and rebuilding it.

      9 older or die-cast steamers, 2 cast diesels, a bunch of old Athearn
      diesels.........with all the rolling stock, I could start a
      railroad......





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      Group: vintageHO Message: 1943 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
       Wobbly... The piece that I am referring to as a dogbone is the same part that you are describing as the piece between the tower and the motor. I have extra complete trucks, which would include the parts you are describing. (Except that dogbone piece... that seems to be the hardest piece to come by...)Send your mailing address to my e-mail address (mrlengal2u@...) and I will mail you two of them, no charge. They won't be new, obviously, but I will make sure that they will work for your purpose. I just hate to see otherwise good vintage pieces go to waste. Stephen
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: wobbly913@...
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 8:37 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts

      I have two of those Olympic Express F7's, they are great runners.  I will have to take a closer look at them as compared to my globe units. I have a third Globe that is also an excelent running engine...even though it is about 50 years old.  That is why I would like to get the other two Globes up and running as well.
       
      Wobbly913

      Glenn <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
      Now that I recall it--that drive re-surfaced as "Olympic Express"--which should give another name to look for.  Japanese made. 
       
      They say that everything improves with age, but as I remember those were one of the best HO diesel drives ever made. gj
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Wobbly913
      Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 12:00 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts

      Stephen L.
       
      Thanks for your reply.
      I do not have a parts list, not sure what you refer to as the dog bone.
       
      For one unit I need the plastic piece that connects the motor to the tower on top of the truck, and the cover or lid of the truck body...the kingpin is broken off leaving the truck floating on the frame.
      For the other unit I need the worm geared shaft that runs between the axles and connects to the gear on the tower.
      In general I was looking for a future source of parts for potential failures, I like to run my vintage models.
       
      Wobbly913


      MRLENGAL2U@aol. com wrote:
      Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com
      To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
      Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

      All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics.

      >
      > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your
      fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      > Wobbly913
      >
      >


      Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail. yahoo.com

      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail. yahoo.com
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1944 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
      Doing research on this tonight, I have come to the conclusion that
      to "fit" in with the rest of my die-cast stuff, I need to find an
      old cast superstructure for it.
      Anybody got a spare?
      Paint is immaterial, as I glass-bead them anyway.
      Dave

      >
      > Sounds like an early late-model Yardhog by MDC.
      >
      > I have the 0-6-0 w/tender cersion - slow and creepy(nice that
      way) but awful noisy! Vintage about 1986 or so.
      >
      > I also have the old cast version - several in varying states of
      repair - not as slow but heavier and relatively quiet for their age.
      >
      > My 1958 Yardhog($8.50 when Dad got it for me) has about had it -
      but she took a lot of abuse thgrough my young teen years and kept
      coming back for more. Finally died of a number ofthings but the
      killer was that the magent got weak!
      >
      > Fred(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
      >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 1945 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/4/2007
      Subject: Re: Globe drive parts
      Thanks for your very kind offer, I will send my address off list.  As to the connecting link, Hobbytown of Boston,  http://www.hobbytownofboston.com  offers some parts that might combine to make that link.  They are a universal coupling ball along with a piece of square drive rod.  Two of the coupling balls  connected by the square rod, if the coupling balls are the right size. They also offer a coupling socket that looks a lot like the Globe version...if the sizes line up.
       
      Wobbly913 

      MRLENGAL2U@... wrote:
       Wobbly... The piece that I am referring to as a dogbone is the same part that you are describing as the piece between the tower and the motor. I have extra complete trucks, which would include the parts you are describing. (Except that dogbone piece... that seems to be the hardest piece to come by...)Send your mailing address to my e-mail address (mrlengal2u@...) and I will mail you two of them, no charge. They won't be new, obviously, but I will make sure that they will work for your purpose. I just hate to see otherwise good vintage pieces go to waste. Stephen
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: wobbly913@...
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 8:37 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts

      I have two of those Olympic Express F7's, they are great runners.  I will have to take a closer look at them as compared to my globe units. I have a third Globe that is also an excelent running engine...even though it is about 50 years old.  That is why I would like to get the other two Globes up and running as well.
       
      Wobbly913

      Glenn <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
      Now that I recall it--that drive re-surfaced as "Olympic Express"--which should give another name to look for.  Japanese made. 
       
      They say that everything improves with age, but as I remember those were one of the best HO diesel drives ever made. gj
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Wobbly913
      Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 12:00 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Globe drive parts

      Stephen L.
       
      Thanks for your reply.
      I do not have a parts list, not sure what you refer to as the dog bone.
       
      For one unit I need the plastic piece that connects the motor to the tower on top of the truck, and the cover or lid of the truck body...the kingpin is broken off leaving the truck floating on the frame.
      For the other unit I need the worm geared shaft that runs between the axles and connects to the gear on the tower.
      In general I was looking for a future source of parts for potential failures, I like to run my vintage models.
       
      Wobbly913


      MRLENGAL2U@aol. com wrote:
      Wobbly... What parts do you need for the Globe drives? I have some pieces, definitely not the dogbones. That seems to be the hardest part for me to come across, so I can't spare those. But... I have extras of most of the other parts. Stephen L
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com
      To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
      Sent: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 9:14 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1964-vintage tower-drive dismal fix

      All I gotta do now is figure out how to post the pics.

      >
      > I have several of those units. I would be interested in seeing your
      fix in case one of mine ever breaks.
      > Does anyone have parts for the old Globe drives?
      > Wobbly913
      >
      >


      Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail. yahoo.com

      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail. yahoo.com

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com

      Group: vintageHO Message: 1946 From: Lance Russwurm Date: 1/5/2007
      Subject: Re: Missing instructions
      Thanks, Dave and Don......that Yardbird site material looks excellent!
       
      Ken.....I probably won't be getting to it right away....but, now emboldened.......do I dare trry installing a Soundtrax small steam decoder into it that I just happen to have laying around here without a home? It's a possibility. (Do you guys tend to be purists about keeping things original? I will use anything, old or new, hopped up or not...as long as it works well)
       
      Lance


      oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Lance Russwurm <davinci1953@ ...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Thanks, Glen and Ken.....
      > I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker.
      > Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it.
      >
      > Great first results with this group!
      >
      > Lance
      >
      > Great Lance! Glad you found the instructions you needed! Now be
      sure to keep us all posted of your construction progress! Ken
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > http://mail. yahoo.com
      >




      Lance Russwurm
       
       

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com

      Group: vintageHO Message: 1947 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/5/2007
      Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
      Dave,
      That's the neat aspect of this hobby... you can pull stuff out of the attic or basement and have the enjoyment of putting it back to useful enjoyment!
       
      Dan 
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: curmudgeon
      Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 10:57 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger

      Things I picked up over the years.
      Someone asked about a 4-8-0....... so I dug mine out.

      Rubber tires?

      No idea vintage, says "Mantua".

      Then, there is a plastic 0-4-0 that says (faintly) Mantua.
      Saddle tank, but with the smokebox sticking out so not a "Docksider".
      Can't find it in the spec sheets yet. Missing the plastic
      snap-on headlight is all.

      Then there is one I have no idea, as no name anywhere.
      Similar body, but at least an inch longer, cab roof extends all the
      way to the back of the fuel bunker. 0-6-0, looks like it could use a
      trailing truck, there is so much rearward overhang.
      Crosshead guides are square brass like a Yardbird and Varney
      Docksider, no name on the bottom plate, PLASTIC shell, has reduction
      gears you can see, main gear offset to the side of the opening in
      the bottom cover. All meat chassis, pilot deck and cylinders, thin
      siderods, looks like cast main and crosshead.
      Guess I'll go tear it down for an inspection and see what I have.

      Okay, this 0-6-0 is strange.
      The ONLY numbers anywhere are on the rear crosshead support (cast,
      with rivet detail), 01-103.
      Slide valve (flat-top cylinders), wire to simulate inside valve
      gear, diamond-plate front deck, lead weight that is cast with full
      rivet detail where it is exposed under the plastic, rivet detail on
      the cylinder saddle, cast air pump on the fireman's side of the
      smokebox.
      I am looking at a "kit", as the metal parts are hand-painted with
      Floquil (badly). I fixed the "badly" part for now.
      The bottom cover is Phillips-head sheet metal screws, not machone
      slotted.
      There is another set of driver journals, just forward of #1 and aft
      of #3, like you could have a "stretch" version.
      The motor, while open-frame, is weird, in that the front plate is
      plastic, with the spring for the brushes pivoted at the bottom, the
      spring wires run vertically up past the shaft to contact the brushes
      at the top.

      I found what I think it is.

      An MDC "Yardhog", except no idea on vintage, as all the spec sheets
      I can find so far show a classic worm and worm gear, not a gear
      reduction.
      This thing, at wide-open throttle, creeps.

      Keeper!

      This is really strange.
      Two months ago I didn't have any Half-Zero out, now I've got all our
      old stuff and rebuilding it.

      9 older or die-cast steamers, 2 cast diesels, a bunch of old Athearn
      diesels..... ....with all the rolling stock, I could start a
      railroad.... ..

      Group: vintageHO Message: 1948 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/5/2007
      Subject: Walthers Gon
      Attachments :
        The lataest eBay treasure a Walthers gondola with what might be Walthers
        Auto Couplers. Needing new decals and a general rehab. Roger Aultman
        --
        http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

        Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
        Group: vintageHO Message: 1949 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: Re: Missing instructions
        What is "HO Seeker". I couldn't find any reference to it doing a Google
        search.

        Mike

        Lance Russwurm wrote:
        >
        >
        > Thanks, Glen and Ken.....
        > I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker.
        > Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it.
        >
        > Great first results with this group!
        >
        > Lance
        >

        --
        Mike Sloane
        Allamuchy NJ
        <mikesloane@...>
        Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
        Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

        Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who
        want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm
        does not interest them. -T.S. Eliot, poet (1888-1965)
        Group: vintageHO Message: 1950 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: Re: Missing instructions
         
        Great site...lots of good information and literature
         
        Wobbly913

        Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote:
        What is "HO Seeker". I couldn't find any reference to it doing a Google
        search.

        Mike

        Lance Russwurm wrote:
        >
        >
        > Thanks, Glen and Ken.....
        > I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker.
        > Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it.
        >
        > Great first results with this group!
        >
        > Lance
        >

        --
        Mike Sloane
        Allamuchy NJ

        Website:
        Images:

        Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who
        want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm
        does not interest them. -T.S. Eliot, poet (1888-1965)



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        Group: vintageHO Message: 1951 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: Re: Missing instructions
        Oh, I dunno......I have a cast metal Varney NW-2 (they called them SW-7's)
        with a Hobbytown of Boston chassis, remotored with a new can motor and a
        Digitrax DZ123 running on my railroad. I think it is nice to have vintage
        trains in actual use. I have a couple of old cast metal Mantua Sharknoses,
        but am not sure I want to put decoders in those puppies. I also love to
        bash the old Mantua steamers into something that has a lot more detail than
        the old days. I think you will find all kinds here, from the purists to
        those like me. But, getting back to your question about a Soundtraxx, hmmm,
        I think I would make sure it had a can motor in it first. I am assuming it
        has an open frame Mantua type motor.
        It is your railroad, so just have FUN!

        Regards, Vic Bitleris
        Raleigh, NC



        ----Original Message Follows----
        From: Lance Russwurm <davinci1953@...>
        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Missing instructions
        Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 04:36:04 -0800 (PST)

        Thanks, Dave and Don......that Yardbird site material looks excellent!

        Ken.....I probably won't be getting to it right away....but, now
        emboldened.......do I dare trry installing a Soundtrax small steam decoder
        into it that I just happen to have laying around here without a home? It's a
        possibility. (Do you guys tend to be purists about keeping things original?
        I will use anything, old or new, hopped up or not...as long as it works
        well)

        Lance


        oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lance Russwurm
        <davinci1953@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Thanks, Glen and Ken.....
        > I found the diagrams I need at HO Seeker.
        > Glen, I will watch the weight situation when I build it.
        >
        > Great first results with this group!
        >
        > Lance
        >
        > Great Lance! Glad you found the instructions you needed! Now be
        sure to keep us all posted of your construction progress! Ken
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >






        Lance Russwurm

        http://www.lancerusswurm.com

        http://ca.geocities.com/stjacobsrr@.../

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        Group: vintageHO Message: 1952 From: Lance Russwurm Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: Re: Missing instructions
         
        Hi Vic....
        Yes, it has the old open frame motor. What's the problem with these? That they don't run as smoothly, or, do they cause interference or something with the decoder? I've heard that the magnets can get weak with age too.
        I almost certainly will look into a re-motoring job. Being naturally lazy, I'd hate to do all the work just to have a lousy runner.
         
        I agree...it's nice to see vintage stuff running on a modern layout. It probably started back when we were in childhood....all the hours spent drooling over items in catalogues that we couldn't afford on our allowance back then.
        I prefer things to look reasonably "scale", and I like it to run well...and a surprisingly large amount of old items fill both requirements, although it might take a bit of tweaking.
        If it ever stops being fun, I'd instantly leave the hobby!
        Lance
         


         


        Lance Russwurm
         
         

        __________________________________________________
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        Group: vintageHO Message: 1953 From: oahurailway Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: Re: Missing instructions
        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lance Russwurm <davinci1953@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Thanks, Dave and Don......that Yardbird site material looks
        excellent!
        >
        > Ken.....I probably won't be getting to it right away....but, now
        emboldened.......do I dare trry installing a Soundtrax small steam
        decoder into it that I just happen to have laying around here without
        a home? It's a possibility. (Do you guys tend to be purists about
        keeping things original? I will use anything, old or new, hopped up
        or not...as long as it works well)
        >
        > Lance
        >
        >
        > Why not Lance? But, that's not my expertise. However, there are
        several other Yahoo! Groups that deal with DCC. Just go to the top of
        the page & click on "Groups Home" then Hobbies & Crafts > Models >
        Trains and Railroads. Have fun! Ken
        >
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________________________
        > > Do You Yahoo!?
        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > > http://mail.yahoo.com
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Lance Russwurm
        >
        > http://www.lancerusswurm.com
        >
        > http://ca.geocities.com/stjacobsrr@.../
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        Group: vintageHO Message: 1954 From: oahurailway Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: Re: Missing instructions
        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote:
        >
        > What is "HO Seeker". I couldn't find any reference to it doing a
        Google
        > search.
        >
        > Mike
        >
        > Hi Mike,

        HO Seeker is a compilation of all sorts of vintage instruction sheets
        & catalogs, which we all can add to for reference. It's located at:
        http://www.hoseeker.net ....Ken
        > >
        >
        >
        Group: vintageHO Message: 1955 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: Re: Walthers Gon
        > a Walthers gondola with what might be Walthers Auto Couplers.

        Yes, indeed. "A Booklet on Couplers" issued by Walthers in 1940 and 1948
        (mine is the second edition) has descriptions and drawings of a large number
        of model (and prototype) couplers.

        The pattern in your photo is described on pages 29 to 31; it was introduced
        by Walthers on their layout at the New York World's Fair. Let me know if you
        want a scan...

        Andy Emmerson.
        Group: vintageHO Message: 1956 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: Re: Missing instructions
        No, we're not purists, if you want to convert to DCC & sound, feel free, we won't criticize.  I do suggest however that the questions about doing it should belong in another group.  The last thing I want to happen here is get people embroiled in a DC vs. DCC debate, which these kinds of questions often create.
         
        Background information that you need to know before trying it, like how is the loco wired, and what kind of current it draws, regearing, repairing, all are OK,.
         
        Don
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 6:36 AM
        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Missing instructions

        Thanks, Dave and Don......that Yardbird site material looks excellent!
         
        Ken.....I probably won't be getting to it right away....but, now emboldened.......do I dare trry installing a Soundtrax small steam decoder into it that I just happen to have laying around here without a home? It's a possibility. (Do you guys tend to be purists about keeping things original? I will use anything, old or new, hopped up or not...as long as it works well)
         
        Lance


         
        (text deleted)
        Group: vintageHO Message: 1957 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: Re: Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger
        OK--you figured out what I ws going to tell you--that is an MDC--originally had a die-cast everything. It is a variation of the SP 0-6-0. (That one goes back to 1937 or 38, originally tooled by Cliff Grandt. "Roundhouse" was fairly late getting back in operation after WWII, not surfacing in the ads in MR until late 1947 or early 1948, whereas Mantua and Varney were running ads before the fighting was over.  The plastic boiler and cab, and reduction drive, are later variations. the original came out in mid 50's. Suggestion--a "live steamers club" on the garden railway?
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: curmudgeon
        Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:57 PM
        Subject: [vintageHO] Oddball......maybe "new" so don't shoot the messenger

        Things I picked up over the years.
        Someone asked about a 4-8-0....... so I dug mine out.

        Rubber tires?

        No idea vintage, says "Mantua".

        Then, there is a plastic 0-4-0 that says (faintly) Mantua.
        Saddle tank, but with the smokebox sticking out so not a "Docksider".
        Can't find it in the spec sheets yet. Missing the plastic
        snap-on headlight is all.

        Then there is one I have no idea, as no name anywhere.
        Similar body, but at least an inch longer, cab roof extends all the
        way to the back of the fuel bunker. 0-6-0, looks like it could use a
        trailing truck, there is so much rearward overhang.
        Crosshead guides are square brass like a Yardbird and Varney
        Docksider, no name on the bottom plate, PLASTIC shell, has reduction
        gears you can see, main gear offset to the side of the opening in
        the bottom cover. All meat chassis, pilot deck and cylinders, thin
        siderods, looks like cast main and crosshead.
        Guess I'll go tear it down for an inspection and see what I have.

        Okay, this 0-6-0 is strange.
        The ONLY numbers anywhere are on the rear crosshead support (cast,
        with rivet detail), 01-103.
        Slide valve (flat-top cylinders), wire to simulate inside valve
        gear, diamond-plate front deck, lead weight that is cast with full
        rivet detail where it is exposed under the plastic, rivet detail on
        the cylinder saddle, cast air pump on the fireman's side of the
        smokebox.
        I am looking at a "kit", as the metal parts are hand-painted with
        Floquil (badly). I fixed the "badly" part for now.
        The bottom cover is Phillips-head sheet metal screws, not machone
        slotted.
        There is another set of driver journals, just forward of #1 and aft
        of #3, like you could have a "stretch" version.
        The motor, while open-frame, is weird, in that the front plate is
        plastic, with the spring for the brushes pivoted at the bottom, the
        spring wires run vertically up past the shaft to contact the brushes
        at the top.

        I found what I think it is.

        An MDC "Yardhog", except no idea on vintage, as all the spec sheets
        I can find so far show a classic worm and worm gear, not a gear
        reduction.
        This thing, at wide-open throttle, creeps.

        Keeper!

        This is really strange.
        Two months ago I didn't have any Half-Zero out, now I've got all our
        old stuff and rebuilding it.

        9 older or die-cast steamers, 2 cast diesels, a bunch of old Athearn
        diesels..... ....with all the rolling stock, I could start a
        railroad.... ..

        Group: vintageHO Message: 1958 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: Re: Walthers Gon
        Andrew Emmerson wrote:
        >> a Walthers gondola with what might be Walthers Auto Couplers.
        >
        >
        > Yes, indeed. "A Booklet on Couplers" issued by Walthers in 1940 and 1948
        > (mine is the second edition) has descriptions and drawings of a large number
        > of model (and prototype) couplers.
        >
        > The pattern in your photo is described on pages 29 to 31; it was introduced
        > by Walthers on their layout at the New York World's Fair. Let me know if you
        > want a scan...
        >
        > Andy Emmerson.


        Thank you Andy, that would be most useful in the files section of this
        group. Roger Aultman

        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

        Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
        Group: vintageHO Message: 1959 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/5/2007
        Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
        Hello,

        This email message is a notification to let you know that
        a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
        group.

        File : /Cover Photo Contest
        Uploaded by : don_dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
        Description : Rules for new cover contest

        You can access this file at the URL:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Cover%20Photo%20Contest

        To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
        http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

        Regards,

        don_dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
        Group: vintageHO Message: 1960 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/6/2007
        Subject: More additions to the roster
        Attachments :
          Added a couple more vintage cars to the roster (actually 5, although these
          are the only two that fall into the "vintage" catagory). Unfortunately,
          both are duplicates of cars I already have. I renumbered the Wabash one,
          now I just need to weather it to tone down the one bright number, the B&M
          one needs renumbering, but not sure yet how I'm going to do it. A bit of
          solvaset on the Wabash car and the number wiped right off with kleenex, The
          same treatment to the B&M car, and nothing, it wouldn't touch it. Not sure
          if I want to try something stronger or paint over the number. For now on
          the car cards the two cars are defined as "weathered" and "clean" <G>.

          Don

          don.dellmann@...
          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
          Owner-Moderator
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
          Co-moderator
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
          Group: vintageHO Message: 1961 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/6/2007
          Subject: Mystery gondola
          Attachments :
            Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox,
            and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT
            have be an old Mantua.

            Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today

            http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-in-Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308

            I think the mystery's solved.

            Don

            don.dellmann@...
            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
            Owner-Moderator
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
            Co-moderator
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
            Group: vintageHO Message: 1962 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/6/2007
            Subject: General Questions.......
            Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group.

            Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that
            catagory......:-)

            I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers

            Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496:

            This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you
            bought
            the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not
            assembled ), but
            glue and paints along with decals.......

            My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
            Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit
            appears to be complete
            but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still
            has some of the solvent ( Oil )
            in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the
            bottom. The red doesn't
            appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a
            silver unlabeled tube of what I am
            guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat to
            see the plan sheet that came
            with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen.
            ( Old school draughtsman
            knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen was
            in vogue, but it wasn't
            too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen were
            frustrated artists.....:-)

            One other question if I may:

            Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today?

            Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

            Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton"

            _________________________________________________________________
            Type your favorite song.� Get a customized station.� Try MSN Radio powered
            by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
            Group: vintageHO Message: 1963 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/6/2007
            Subject: Re: General Questions.......
            00 not quite equates yo half zero.
            Hence the downfall of ScaleCraft.
            I have a BUNCH of 1:48 and 17/64ths "0" stuff, love it, but they
            tied their horse to the wrong cart and were gone by 1946, I think.
            Seen a lot of their "00" stuff, the cast passenger cars are
            miniatures of the "0" ones, but worth?
            Whatever someone will give you for it.
            Dave
            >
            > Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group.
            >
            > Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in
            that
            > catagory......:-)
            >
            > I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers
            >
            > Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496:
            >
            > This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then
            when you
            > bought
            > the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but
            not
            > assembled ), but
            > glue and paints along with decals.......
            >
            > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
            > Does the above referenced item have any value?
            ( The kit
            > appears to be complete
            > but the paint has pretty much had it. The
            yellow still
            > has some of the solvent ( Oil )
            > in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked
            on the
            > bottom. The red doesn't
            > appear to have much if any solvent left. There
            is a
            > silver unlabeled tube of what I am
            > guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's
            really neat to
            > see the plan sheet that came
            > with this kit. The original must have been ink
            on linen.
            > ( Old school draughtsman
            > knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink &
            linen was
            > in vogue, but it wasn't
            > too much after that time. I always felt
            draughtsmen were
            > frustrated artists.....:-)
            >
            > One other question if I may:
            >
            > Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today?
            >
            > Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide.
            >
            > Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton"
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Type your favorite song.  Get a customized station.  Try MSN Radio
            powered
            > by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
            >
            Group: vintageHO Message: 1964 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/6/2007
            Subject: Re: General Questions.......
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:41 PM
            Subject: [vintageHO] General Questions.......


            > Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group.
            >
            > Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that
            > catagory......:-)
            >
            > I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers
            >
            > Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496:
            >
            > This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when
            > you
            > bought
            > the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not
            > assembled ), but
            > glue and paints along with decals.......
            >
            > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
            > Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit
            > appears to be complete
            > but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still
            > has some of the solvent ( Oil )
            > in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the
            > bottom. The red doesn't
            > appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a
            > silver unlabeled tube of what I am
            > guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat
            > to
            > see the plan sheet that came
            > with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen.
            > ( Old school draughtsman
            > knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen
            > was
            > in vogue, but it wasn't
            > too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen
            > were
            > frustrated artists.....:-)
            >
            > One other question if I may:
            >
            > Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today?
            >
            > Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide.
            >
            > Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton"

            OO is 4mm = 1 ft., as opposed to HO's 3.5mm scale.

            After WW II there was aperiod when it looked like OO may become popular in
            this country, but eventually by the early 1950's HO won out. There were
            still a few OO layouts in operation into the 60's, but most proponents in
            the US have died off.

            In great Britain OO is still popular as a scale, but usually runs on HO
            gauge

            As far as what it's worth, whatever someone will pay. The Lionel & Marx
            transformers will probably be worth something if they're still good, watch
            eBay auctions to see what they're going for.

            Don

            don.dellmann@...
            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
            Owner-Moderator
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
            Co-moderator
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
            Group: vintageHO Message: 1965 From: oahurailway Date: 1/7/2007
            Subject: Re: General Questions.......
            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows"
            <saltnpepper69@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
            > Does the above referenced item have any value? (
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
            >
            >

            Hi Loren,

            The NMRA also has a SIG (special interest group) devoted to American
            OO Gauge....Ken
            Group: vintageHO Message: 1966 From: oahurailway Date: 1/7/2007
            Subject: Re: General Questions.......
            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows"
            <saltnpepper69@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
            > Does the above referenced item have any value? (
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
            >
            >

            Hi Loren,

            The NMRA also has a SIG (special interest group) devoted to American
            OO Gauge....Ken
            Group: vintageHO Message: 1967 From: John Barlow Date: 1/7/2007
            Subject: Re: The "Camelot" of OO...
            Dear Loren,
             
            The OO is British (I think you know that) and is slightly larger than HO in scale dimensions. The greatest OO layout I ever saw was almost forty years ago in a suburb of Philadelphia, Pa., built by a then retired gentleman named (if I recall right) Ed Costello. It was featured on the cover of an issue of Railroad Model Craftsman in the later 1970's, not too long before or just after the 1977 NMRA national convention (here in Denver) elevated him to the ranks of the master craftsmen. Well he deserved that.
             
            His "Saint Anne" railroad (named for his wife) was a marvel in many ways. He actually machined his own scale rail...beside hand-laying it. He built all of his own locomotives, including some second or third generation diesels (he was not just steam.)  He had operating block operations that controlled his trains over the same track way ahead of modern day systems...it looked like the thing ran itself...and not a computer in sight in his place. For a change of pace, he dimmed the attic lights and the scene became night with properly illuminated towns and individual structures along the rights-of-way. I'd put it up against any DCC operation today (and I'm not DCC.)  It was, in its time, the magnificent marriage of existing technology and art, having been by 1968 (when I was first there) 35+ years into its construction (what layout is ever finished?)
             
            The one gentleman is right. The OO modelers here are gone-as I'm sure Ed is. I do not know about any others of that scale, but what I saw would have been worthy of the Smithsonian after his death. I fear it has vanished like the ancient cities and temples along the Nile, a tribute to a magnificence that once was.
             
            John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)   
             
             
             
            Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote:
            Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group.

            Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that
            catagory......:-)

            I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers

            Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496:

            This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you
            bought
            the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not
            assembled ), but
            glue and paints along with decals.......

            My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
            Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit
            appears to be complete
            but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still
            has some of the solvent ( Oil )
            in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the
            bottom. The red doesn't
            appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a
            silver unlabeled tube of what I am
            guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat to
            see the plan sheet that came
            with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen.
            ( Old school draughtsman
            knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen was
            in vogue, but it wasn't
            too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen were
            frustrated artists.....:-)

            One other question if I may:

            Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today?

            Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

            Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton"

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            Group: vintageHO Message: 1968 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/7/2007
            Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
            Hello,

            This email message is a notification to let you know that
            a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
            group.

            File : /Walthers_auto_coupler.pdf
            Uploaded by : original_midshires <andrew.emmerson4@...>
            Description : Walthers 1939 auto coupler

            You can access this file at the URL:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Walthers_auto_coupler.pdf

            To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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            original_midshires <andrew.emmerson4@...>
            Group: vintageHO Message: 1969 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 1/7/2007
            Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
            Hi, I too have looked at this railcar that is listed on Ebay and it
            is just as you said it was...

            Yours Truly, Marynn
            Our HO Scale Layout: (Take A L@@K !):)
            http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train.html

            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the
            scrapbox,
            > and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was
            it MIGHT
            > have be an old Mantua.
            >
            > Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today
            >
            > http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-in-
            Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308
            >
            > I think the mystery's solved.
            >
            > Don
            >
            > don.dellmann@...
            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
            > Owner-Moderator
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
            > Co-moderator
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
            >
            Group: vintageHO Message: 1970 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/7/2007
            Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
            Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG>
            Dave S.
            
            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> 
            wrote:
              
            Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the 
                
            scrapbox, 
              
            and we couldn't figure out what it was?  The general consensus was 
                
            it MIGHT 
              
            have be an old Mantua.
            
            Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today
            
            http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-in-
                
            Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308
              
            I think the mystery's solved.
            
            Don
            
            don.dellmann@...
            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
            Owner-Moderator
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
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            Group: vintageHO Message: 1971 From: Larry Date: 1/7/2007
            Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
            I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides.
            http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg
            Larry
            http://www.hoseeker.net/

            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
            >
            > Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as
            well... <VBG>
            > Dave S.
            > >
            > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@>
            > > wrote:
            > >
            > >> Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the
            > >>
            > > scrapbox,
            > >
            > >> and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus
            was
            > >>
            > > it MIGHT
            > >
            > >> have be an old Mantua.
            > >>
            > >> Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today
            > >>
            > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-
            in-
            > >>
            > > Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308
            > >
            > >> I think the mystery's solved.
            > >>
            > >> Don
            > >>
            > >> don.dellmann@
            > >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
            > >> Owner-Moderator
            > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
            > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
            > >> Co-moderator
            > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            Group: vintageHO Message: 1972 From: John Barlow Date: 1/7/2007
            Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
            Dave,
             
            The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..
             
            The car itself is intriguing...and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.
             
            As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.
             
            Sincerely,
             
            John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
             
             
            Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
            Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG>
            Dave S.
              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>   wrote:    
            Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the       
            scrapbox,     
            and we couldn't figure out what it was?  The general consensus was       
            it MIGHT     
            have be an old Mantua.    Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today    http://cgi.ebay. com/Vintage- Mantua-TP- Texas-Pacific- Gondola-Car- in-      
            Box_W0QQitemZ130065 468308    
            I think the mystery's solved.    Don    don.dellmann@ ...  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann  Owner-Moderator  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO  Co-moderator  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY        
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            Group: vintageHO Message: 1973 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/7/2007
            Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
            I'm impressed, WAY back then they even had a CN side for the car..   <VBG>
            Dave S.

            Larry wrote:
            I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides.
            http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg
            Larry
            http://www.hoseeker.net/
            
            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
              
            Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as 
                
            well...  <VBG>
              
            Dave S.
                
            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> 
            wrote:
              
                  
            Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the 
                
                    
            scrapbox, 
              
                  
            and we couldn't figure out what it was?  The general consensus 
                    
            was 
              
                
                    
            it MIGHT 
              
                  
            have be an old Mantua.
            
            Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today
            
            http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-
                    
            in-
              
                
                    
            Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308
              
                  
            I think the mystery's solved.
            
            Don
            
            don.dellmann@
            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
            Owner-Moderator
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
            Co-moderator
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
            
                
                    
            
            
             
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            Group: vintageHO Message: 1974 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/7/2007
            Subject: Re: General Questions.......
            Attachments :
              Loren, Dave and list: For evaluation and precise measurement, OO scale
              is 4.0 mm to the foot whereas, HO scale is 3.5 mm to the foot.
              Negligeable difference but, definitely and noticeably larger.

              HO designation was and is, half O scale however, 7 mm is not the same as
              1/4" to the foot. 7 mm is, 17/64" scale, sometimes refered to as Q
              scale. To the discerning eye, Q scale is more desireable as that
              matches the track gauge commonly used with O scale model railroads.
              Confused? Who knows why the O scale track gauge is not exact to 1/4"
              scale, I don't.

              FWIW.... Don L.
              Group: vintageHO Message: 1975 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
              Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
              Those are actually Mantua hook & loop which were standard when it was new.  The loop is not as wide as the Triang, and is loose allowing vertical movement for aouto uncoupling.  The Triang as I recall (at least the ones I saw) had a much wider loop that was fixed directly to the frame.
               
              Don
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:33 AM
              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola

              Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG>
              Dave S.
              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> 
              wrote:
                
              Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the 
                  
              scrapbox, 
                
              and we couldn't figure out what it was?  The general consensus was 
                  
              it MIGHT 
                
              have be an old Mantua.
              
              Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today
              
              http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-in-
                  
              Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308
                
              I think the mystery's solved.
              
              Don
              
              don.dellmann@...
              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
              Owner-Moderator
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
              Co-moderator
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
              
                  
              
              
              
               
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              Group: vintageHO Message: 1976 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
              Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
              The same seller has some original Mantua tank cars with tank wrapper too.
              Those I'm almost tempted to bid.

              Don

              don.dellmann@...
              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
              Owner-Moderator
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Larry" <seekingho@...>
              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:09 AM
              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola


              >I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides.
              > http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg
              > Larry
              > http://www.hoseeker.net/
              >
              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as
              > well... <VBG>
              >> Dave S.
              >> >
              >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@>
              >> > wrote:
              >> >
              >> >> Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the
              >> >>
              >> > scrapbox,
              >> >
              >> >> and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus
              > was
              >> >>
              >> > it MIGHT
              >> >
              >> >> have be an old Mantua.
              >> >>
              >> >> Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today
              >> >>
              >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mantua-TP-Texas-Pacific-Gondola-Car-
              > in-
              >> >>
              >> > Box_W0QQitemZ130065468308
              >> >
              >> >> I think the mystery's solved.
              >> >>
              >> >> Don
              >> >>
              >> >> don.dellmann@
              >> >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
              >> >> Owner-Moderator
              >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
              >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
              >> >> Co-moderator
              >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
              >> >>
              >> >>
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
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              >
              >
              Group: vintageHO Message: 1977 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
              Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
              Errors from copying models are nothing new.  The same way with plans.  One of the most famous ones was back in the late '50's Lynn Wescott drew a plan for MODEL RAILROADER of a Vulcan 0-4-2-t saddle tanker.  As a lark, he included on the plan the herald for his own fictional "Northwest" railway.
               
              A couple years later, Athearn brought out their "Li'l monster" 0-4-2-t Vulcan, and sure enough, there was the "NW" herald proudly emblazoned on the tank.  What's even funnier, a year or so later GEM imported a BRASS version, and it too had the "Northwest" herald.
               
              Don
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:18 AM
              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola

              Dave,
               
              The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..
               
              The car itself is intriguing...and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.
               
              As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.
               
              Sincerely,
               
              John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
               
               
              Group: vintageHO Message: 1978 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/7/2007
              Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
              I have one of those tank cars available if you're interested;
              assembled, "Deep Rock" wrapper, sans couplers.

              Jack Priller
              Still loose in El Paso

              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > The same seller has some original Mantua tank cars with tank wrapper
              too.
              > Those I'm almost tempted to bid.
              >
              > Don
              >
              Group: vintageHO Message: 1979 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/7/2007
              Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
              > The Triang as I recall (at least the ones I saw) had a much wider loop
              > that was fixed directly to the frame.

              Perfectly correct. It still is. Bachmann 4mm scale products for the British
              market have a slightly narrower version of the Triang (now Hornby) coupler
              that looks fairly similar to the old (German) Fleischmann coupler. Old timer
              of course recognise all of these as copies of the old Baker couplers used in
              the USA and still produced in Japan.

              QUESTION: Does anyone know who 'Baker' was and which makes first used Baker
              couplers?

              For those who may be puzzled, the Hornby of today is not the Hornby of old.
              Hornby Dublo trains (16.5mm gauge, 4mm scale) were introduced in 1938
              (http://www.hrca.net/hornby_dublo_history.html) and in those days used a
              coupler not dissimilar to the Mantua loop. In 1947 they adopted the Peco
              'Simplex' coupling. Around the same time British Trix trains changed to the
              same Simplex coupler from the pre-war Trix coupler.

              In 1964 Hornby Dublo was taken over by Triang, who then used the Hornby name
              (which had a longer history) for the combined product range.

              Andy Emmerson.
              Group: vintageHO Message: 1980 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2007
              Subject: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
              Attachments :
                Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman



                --
                http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                Group: vintageHO Message: 1981 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/7/2007
                Subject: Re: General Questions.......
                Hi, I think some of the other folks can give you a better answer on the
                details of oo scale. I do know it is NOT the same as HO. The oo scale is a
                bit bigger than HO, but uses the same track gauge. I think you can probably
                run your oo cars with the HO, but they will look a bit out of scale.
                As far as the transformers, I never throw away old transformers. Some of
                the more powerful Lionel transformers might be usable as power supplies for
                DCC controllers. Also, don't forget the old transformers may be used to
                power light, switch machines, animation, and sound modules. Mostly in order
                to use them you will need to know the voltage and current rating
                capablilities. An inexpensive Radio Shack, Home Depot, or Lowes multimeter
                would be very useful for these applications.

                Vic Bitleris
                Raleigh, NC



                ----Original Message Follows----
                From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [vintageHO] General Questions.......
                Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:41:34 -0800

                Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group.

                Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that
                catagory......:-)

                I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers

                Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496:

                This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you
                bought
                the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not
                assembled ), but
                glue and paints along with decals.......

                My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
                Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit
                appears to be complete
                but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still
                has some of the solvent ( Oil )
                in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the
                bottom. The red doesn't
                appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a
                silver unlabeled tube of what I am
                guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat
                to
                see the plan sheet that came
                with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen.
                ( Old school draughtsman
                knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen
                was
                in vogue, but it wasn't
                too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen
                were
                frustrated artists.....:-)

                One other question if I may:

                Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today?

                Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

                Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton"

                _________________________________________________________________
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                Yahoo! Groups Links



                _________________________________________________________________
                From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
                it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
                Group: vintageHO Message: 1982 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/7/2007
                Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
                Attachments :
                  And another one!
                   
                  Andy Emmerson.
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:30 PM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

                  Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman

                  --
                  http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/


                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1983 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/7/2007
                  Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                  In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did).
                   
                  North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use 4mm to the foot.
                   
                  There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefour.org/).
                   
                  The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't have my notes beside me right now).
                   
                  A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8" electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors.
                   
                  Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late 1920s all the  trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for the 4mm scale.
                   
                  As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale.
                   
                  By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british-ho.com).
                   
                  Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:
                   
                  1.  The compact, folding 16.5mm layout
                  2.  The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth
                  3.  The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.
                   
                  His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many copies here and in Continental Europe later.
                   
                  Andy Emmerson.
                   
                   
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1984 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
                  Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@...>
                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:00 AM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] couplers, was Mystery gondola


                  >> The Triang as I recall (at least the ones I saw) had a much wider loop
                  >> that was fixed directly to the frame.
                  >
                  > Perfectly correct. It still is. Bachmann 4mm scale products for the
                  > British
                  > market have a slightly narrower version of the Triang (now Hornby) coupler
                  > that looks fairly similar to the old (German) Fleischmann coupler. Old
                  > timer
                  > of course recognise all of these as copies of the old Baker couplers used
                  > in
                  > the USA and still produced in Japan.
                  >
                  > QUESTION: Does anyone know who 'Baker' was and which makes first used
                  > Baker
                  > couplers?

                  I believe the company was "Baker Engineering" although I may be wrong. I
                  don't think any manufacturer included them in kits, but the most famous user
                  was of of course the late John Allen, who used Baker couplers exclusively on
                  the Gorre & Daphetid right up to the end.

                  Don

                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                  Owner-Moderator
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                  Co-moderator
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1985 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2007
                  Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
                  A better example of the difference in size. Roger Aultman




                  Andrew Emmerson wrote:
                  > And another one!
                  >
                  > Andy Emmerson.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Roger Aultman <mailto:raul@...>
                  > To: VINTAGE H-0 <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:30 PM
                  > Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
                  >
                  > Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman
                  >
                  > --
                  > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                  > <http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm>
                  >
                  > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/>
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >


                  --
                  http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1986 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
                  Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                  I don't think so. Looks plastic to me. I have both. I believe the
                  all metal with paper sides was a #C-700. The #310 was plastic. Not
                  100% sure.

                  Bill


                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides.
                  > http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg
                  > Larry
                  > http://www.hoseeker.net/
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1987 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
                  Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                  I don't think so. Looks plastic to me. I have both. I believe the
                  all metal with paper sides was a #C-700. The #310 was plastic. Not
                  100% sure.

                  Bill


                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides.
                  > http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg
                  > Larry
                  > http://www.hoseeker.net/
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1988 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/7/2007
                  Subject: Old TriAng.
                  I have just posted some experimental shots of some TriAng stuff I have
                  here, I was trying some different setting with my new camera. The
                  pictures are in my Flickr album at
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/des-productions/sets/72157594465431577/
                  Dave S.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1989 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/7/2007
                  Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                  Depends.
                  Like running "0" on 1.25" track.
                  Should be what, 1.130" or so?
                  The dublo stuff coming out now (think "Thomas") runs on half-zero
                  track.
                  I read a dissertation once on North Amaerican 00 VS Brit Dublo,
                  All the stuff here ran on half-zero track, if I recall, Lionel,
                  ScaleCraft, all of them.
                  Since this one was ScaleCraft (US Made), I didn't think a discussion
                  of Euro gauge differences was part of it.
                  Maybe so.

                  BTW, in my 1941 ScaleCraft catalog, they list a C&NW 4-8-4, a 4-6-4,
                  a 4-6-4T, an 0-6-0, gas-electrics, heavyweight passenger cars,
                  reefers, box, stock,tank, flat, hopper and caboose.

                  Just to ask, it's a K-1496 Reefer kit.
                  What suffix?
                  A was Fruit Grower's Express, B was C&NW, C was MDT, D was Wilson,
                  and E was Pluto.
                  To give an idea of size as compared to half-zero, dimensions from
                  the catalog are, length over end sills 6-5/8", Extreme width1-9/16",
                  Coupler Height 15/32" (compare to half-zero nmra standards....), and
                  height from railhead to top of roofwalk, 2-3/16".

                  Also, the 1937 catalog mentions the curtain going up on the new "00"
                  line....


                  >
                  > In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point
                  about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did).
                  >
                  > North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use
                  4mm to the foot.
                  >
                  > There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm
                  finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefour.org/).
                  >
                  > The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s,
                  when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or
                  16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a
                  trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't
                  have my notes beside me right now).
                  >
                  > A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry
                  Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for
                  electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North
                  American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and
                  proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8"
                  electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors.
                  >
                  > Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own
                  mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late
                  1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge
                  horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive
                  bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for
                  the 4mm scale.
                  >
                  > As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later
                  in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico
                  magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors
                  possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more
                  room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the
                  problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale.
                  >
                  > By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all
                  commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We
                  still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british-
                  ho.com).
                  >
                  > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:
                  >
                  > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout
                  > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth
                  > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.
                  >
                  > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a
                  few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that
                  made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler
                  was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many
                  copies here and in Continental Europe later.
                  >
                  > Andy Emmerson.
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1990 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2007
                  Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
                  Attachments :
                    Picture of a Baker on a Varney foil side Milwaukee Road ribside boxcar.
                    It seems Baker also mad a power unit for the Globe F-7.
                    Roger Aultman



                    Andrew Emmerson wrote:

                    > QUESTION: Does anyone know who 'Baker' was and which makes first used Baker
                    > couplers?
                    >

                    >
                    > Andy Emmerson.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    --
                    http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1991 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                    That's interesting. Wish there was someone who kept track of the box
                    style, numbers, contents and changes Mantua made. I may bid on those
                    myself cept I have to much now. Let me know if you go for it or not.
                    Bill


                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The same seller has some original Mantua tank cars with tank wrapper
                    too.
                    > Those I'm almost tempted to bid.
                    >
                    > Don
                    >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1992 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                    That's interesting. Wish there was someone who kept track of the box
                    style, numbers, contents and changes Mantua made. I may bid on those
                    myself cept I have to much now. Let me know if you go for it or not.
                    Bill


                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The same seller has some original Mantua tank cars with tank wrapper
                    too.
                    > Those I'm almost tempted to bid.
                    >
                    > Don
                    >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1993 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                    "Eric Lanal" aka Allen Rice was also one of the 'fathers' of HO
                    trolley modeling. If memory serves, he was a college professor
                    (languages?) and didn't want his hobby known to his peers; hence the
                    letter-scrambling for his nom de plume in 'our' world.

                    Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Emmerson"
                    <andrew.emmerson4@...> wrote:
                    >

                    > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:
                    >
                    > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout
                    > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth
                    > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.
                    >
                    > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a
                    few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that
                    made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler
                    was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many
                    copies here and in Continental Europe later.
                    >
                    > Andy Emmerson.
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1994 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                    At the risk of being the spelling equivalent of a rivet counter, it was "Allan" with two a's.
                     
                    But it's you are in good company as can even be seen at this NMRA page http://www.nmra.org/alltime.html which says:
                     
                    "24. Rice, Allen Lake*. PA. aka Eric LaNal. HO pioneer early 1930s. Promoting Hobby. Mfd. H. Owen HO kits with paper sides. Promotion. Author RMC, MR 1930s, 1960s. Pioneer in 2-rail HO. Consultant to several mfrs (Megow, Mantua). LaNal coupler inventor. Mfd in England. Manufacturer H. Owen HO Kits early 1930s. NMRA Distinguished Service Award 1962"
                     
                    It's a pretty intereting NMRA page, by the way.
                     
                    I think I will email the NMRA on that minor typo.
                     
                    Chuck Kinzer
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:55 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                    "Eric Lanal" aka Allen Rice was also one of the 'fathers' of HO
                    trolley modeling. If memory serves, he was a college professor
                    (languages?) and didn't want his hobby known to his peers; hence the
                    letter-scrambling for his nom de plume in 'our' world.

                    Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Andrew Emmerson"
                    <andrew.emmerson4@ ...> wrote:
                    >

                    > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:
                    >
                    > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout
                    > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth
                    > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.
                    >
                    > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a
                    few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that
                    made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler
                    was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many
                    copies here and in Continental Europe later.
                    >
                    > Andy Emmerson.
                    >

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1995 From: John Hagen Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                    Wanna know why there is a NMRA? I seem seeing several instances
                    where "HO" scale was referred to as 1/8"/ft. I've also seen
                    statements saying "HO" stood for "half-O" (I'm talking 40's - early
                    50's here). It all seems to go back to the British using the metric
                    system and us Americans using our sytems of...whatever it's called. I
                    can't recall a name for it, but then I can't recall where I set my
                    coffee down just as I began to type this. It's my CRS (can't remember
                    s**t) kicking up again. In Merry Olde England and probably the rest
                    of Europe, "O" scale was (is?) 7 mm scale so therefore, "HO" at 3.5
                    mm scale was "half O". But we imported certain standards from
                    England, including the "O" scale track gauge and the 3.5 mm scale
                    for "HO". Of course, we revolutionaries used 1/4"/ft scale (.635 mm)
                    for everything "O" scale EXCEPT the track. The 17/64"/ft scale was
                    much closer to the track scale and so a certain group of "O" scalers,
                    including some manufacturers, built to that standard. When "HO"
                    started overhere, some modelers, apparently wanting to use our
                    fractional sysytem of measurement instead of the metric system, built
                    1/8" "HO" scale. Of course they used the 16.5 mm track so they were
                    basically running on 5 ft gauge track just like their "O" scale
                    brothern. Thankfully, the was little of the 1/8" "HO" scale. By the
                    time "HO" gained much of a following, the NMRA had been established.
                    I believe the hobby owes much of it's growth to the NMRA and the
                    standards they established. Yeah, I know, they used the 1.25" track
                    gauge as the "O" scale standard when it should of been 1.177".
                    But "O" scale was already quite well established in 1935 and that was
                    the most common scale/gauge in use. And their purpose was not to set
                    standards that were exact-to-scale (who but a very few could get what
                    is essentially Proto 48 to run in those days) but rather come up with
                    workable standards that would be used on an industry-wide basis. "HO"
                    was still very much in it's formative stages and they were able to
                    set the standards to 3.5 mm scale. I would much rather model in "HO"
                    here rather then "HO" or "OO" or dublo or what the h*#l scale(s) they
                    have to deal with accross the pond there matey! I mean I really like
                    much of the british steam but if I come accross a British prototype
                    model locomotive for sale I can't figure out if it runs on "HO" track
                    and if so is it "HO" or "OO" in scale.....

                    John Hgen

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Depends.
                    > Like running "0" on 1.25" track.
                    > Should be what, 1.130" or so?
                    > The dublo stuff coming out now (think "Thomas") runs on half-zero
                    > track.
                    > I read a dissertation once on North Amaerican 00 VS Brit Dublo,
                    > All the stuff here ran on half-zero track, if I recall, Lionel,
                    > ScaleCraft, all of them.
                    > Since this one was ScaleCraft (US Made), I didn't think a
                    discussion
                    > of Euro gauge differences was part of it.
                    > Maybe so.
                    >
                    > BTW, in my 1941 ScaleCraft catalog, they list a C&NW 4-8-4, a 4-6-
                    4,
                    > a 4-6-4T, an 0-6-0, gas-electrics, heavyweight passenger cars,
                    > reefers, box, stock,tank, flat, hopper and caboose.
                    >
                    > Just to ask, it's a K-1496 Reefer kit.
                    > What suffix?
                    > A was Fruit Grower's Express, B was C&NW, C was MDT, D was Wilson,
                    > and E was Pluto.
                    > To give an idea of size as compared to half-zero, dimensions from
                    > the catalog are, length over end sills 6-5/8", Extreme width1-
                    9/16",
                    > Coupler Height 15/32" (compare to half-zero nmra standards....),
                    and
                    > height from railhead to top of roofwalk, 2-3/16".
                    >
                    > Also, the 1937 catalog mentions the curtain going up on the
                    new "00"
                    > line....
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the
                    point
                    > about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did).
                    > >
                    > > North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use
                    > 4mm to the foot.
                    > >
                    > > There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm
                    > finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefour.org/).
                    > >
                    > > The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s,
                    > when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or
                    > 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a
                    > trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't
                    > have my notes beside me right now).
                    > >
                    > > A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry
                    > Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for
                    > electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North
                    > American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and
                    > proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8"
                    > electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own
                    motors.
                    > >
                    > > Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own
                    > mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late
                    > 1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge
                    > horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small
                    locomotive
                    > bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for
                    > the 4mm scale.
                    > >
                    > > As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later
                    > in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico
                    > magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors
                    > possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave
                    more
                    > room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the
                    > problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale.
                    > >
                    > > By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all
                    > commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We
                    > still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british-
                    > ho.com).
                    > >
                    > > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:
                    > >
                    > > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout
                    > > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth
                    > > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.
                    > >
                    > > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a
                    > few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that
                    > made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler
                    > was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many
                    > copies here and in Continental Europe later.
                    > >
                    > > Andy Emmerson.
                    > >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1996 From: John Barlow Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 gauge...and Other Scales/Gauges
                    Again-refinements in the specifications. Good to know. I see the term "fine scale" in Great Britain has another meaning from my days as a part-timer at Denver's Caboose Hobbies. In 1978-80, the term applied to American two rail "O" that was prototypically 4-feet, eight-and-one half inches between the railheads....like the real thing. The more available Atlas "O" was reportedly 5-feet between the railheads...broad gauge (as in the U.S.S.R.) It may still be.
                     
                    Cooch made fine scale (O) passenger trucks way back then that showed up at Caboose Hobbies here and were back-shelved (but visible). Nobody (speaking of O customers) ever bought any-but the story was that the then manager was himself into that level of scale. I think D. Miller, the owner, had a talk about them with the then manager and why he had ordered them? It soon became readily apparent that they were so displayed as a cover for the manager's private stock-and he was told to buy them and take them home or they would be returned for a refund. I heard the former occurred quickly.
                     
                    The mysterious TT scale/gauge was told to me in decades past to have "defected" behind the Iron Curtain of Cold War days. I suspect there are a few modelers into it still today here.
                     
                    I need to save some of these postings for historical reasons, but in noting that I wonder if ON30 is taking off outside the USA? I was surprised t see that the track used for it is really HO, but then NN3 is really Z scale.
                     
                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                     
                     

                    Andrew Emmerson <andrew.emmerson4@...> wrote:
                    In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did).
                     
                    North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use 4mm to the foot.
                     
                    There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefou r.org/).
                     
                    The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't have my notes beside me right now).
                     
                    A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8" electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors.
                     
                    Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late 1920s all the  trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for the 4mm scale.
                     
                    As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale.
                     
                    By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british- ho.com).
                     
                    Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:
                     
                    1.  The compact, folding 16.5mm layout
                    2.  The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth
                    3.  The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.
                     
                    His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many copies here and in Continental Europe later.
                     
                    Andy Emmerson.
                     
                     

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                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1997 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                    H0 IS half-zero.
                    I can send you to the Maerklin history and you can read it.
                    When they came up with initial gauge designators, it was #0, #1, #2,
                    #3, #4, #5.....
                    When the motors got small enough they could make things smaller, it
                    was "Half Zero".
                    It isn't even "oh" gauge, it's "zero" gauge.
                    The Brits called it "naught", and "H0" was "half-naught".
                    The "S" guys were initially "H1", but they were smart cookies,
                    realized they didn't want to be half of anything, so ended up
                    with "S" as a designator.
                    The "H0" guys had a saviour in the nmra, when they found out
                    keyboards could be used to type in HO while holding the caps key and
                    not having to let go for a "0".
                    Plus, the nmra pushed "the" scale as HO.
                    Revisionist history at it's best.
                    If you think the "standards" with nmra never change, you have
                    another think coming.
                    Read old MR's and you'll get the idea.
                    Can't have things that don't fit the nmra "idea", so it doesn't meet
                    nmra standards, MR reports it, Walthers stocks only the nmra
                    approved stuff.
                    Can't have multiple scales on one gauge.
                    Why do you think 17/64ths scale went away?
                    Proper scale for 1.250" gauge track standard gauge.
                    So, it's "unacceptable", and we later get "Proto48" which forever
                    split the "0" gauge hobby with totally incompatible trackage.
                    Half Zero.
                    That's what it was, and anything else is simply revisionist history.

                    >
                    > Wanna know why there is a NMRA? I seem seeing several instances
                    > where "HO" scale was referred to as 1/8"/ft. I've also seen
                    > statements saying "HO" stood for "half-O" (I'm talking 40's -
                    early
                    > 50's here). It all seems to go back to the British using the
                    metric
                    > system and us Americans using our sytems of...whatever it's
                    called. I
                    > can't recall a name for it, but then I can't recall where I set my
                    > coffee down just as I began to type this. It's my CRS (can't
                    remember
                    > s**t) kicking up again. In Merry Olde England and probably the
                    rest
                    > of Europe, "O" scale was (is?) 7 mm scale so therefore, "HO" at
                    3.5
                    > mm scale was "half O". But we imported certain standards from
                    > England, including the "O" scale track gauge and the 3.5 mm scale
                    > for "HO". Of course, we revolutionaries used 1/4"/ft scale (.635
                    mm)
                    > for everything "O" scale EXCEPT the track. The 17/64"/ft scale was
                    > much closer to the track scale and so a certain group of "O"
                    scalers,
                    > including some manufacturers, built to that standard. When "HO"
                    > started overhere, some modelers, apparently wanting to use our
                    > fractional sysytem of measurement instead of the metric system,
                    built
                    > 1/8" "HO" scale. Of course they used the 16.5 mm track so they
                    were
                    > basically running on 5 ft gauge track just like their "O" scale
                    > brothern. Thankfully, the was little of the 1/8" "HO" scale. By
                    the
                    > time "HO" gained much of a following, the NMRA had been
                    established.
                    > I believe the hobby owes much of it's growth to the NMRA and the
                    > standards they established. Yeah, I know, they used the 1.25"
                    track
                    > gauge as the "O" scale standard when it should of been 1.177".
                    > But "O" scale was already quite well established in 1935 and that
                    was
                    > the most common scale/gauge in use. And their purpose was not to
                    set
                    > standards that were exact-to-scale (who but a very few could get
                    what
                    > is essentially Proto 48 to run in those days) but rather come up
                    with
                    > workable standards that would be used on an industry-wide
                    basis. "HO"
                    > was still very much in it's formative stages and they were able to
                    > set the standards to 3.5 mm scale. I would much rather model
                    in "HO"
                    > here rather then "HO" or "OO" or dublo or what the h*#l scale(s)
                    they
                    > have to deal with accross the pond there matey! I mean I really
                    like
                    > much of the british steam but if I come accross a British
                    prototype
                    > model locomotive for sale I can't figure out if it runs on "HO"
                    track
                    > and if so is it "HO" or "OO" in scale.....
                    >
                    > John Hgen
                    >
                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Depends.
                    > > Like running "0" on 1.25" track.
                    > > Should be what, 1.130" or so?
                    > > The dublo stuff coming out now (think "Thomas") runs on half-
                    zero
                    > > track.
                    > > I read a dissertation once on North Amaerican 00 VS Brit Dublo,
                    > > All the stuff here ran on half-zero track, if I recall, Lionel,
                    > > ScaleCraft, all of them.
                    > > Since this one was ScaleCraft (US Made), I didn't think a
                    > discussion
                    > > of Euro gauge differences was part of it.
                    > > Maybe so.
                    > >
                    > > BTW, in my 1941 ScaleCraft catalog, they list a C&NW 4-8-4, a 4-
                    6-
                    > 4,
                    > > a 4-6-4T, an 0-6-0, gas-electrics, heavyweight passenger cars,
                    > > reefers, box, stock,tank, flat, hopper and caboose.
                    > >
                    > > Just to ask, it's a K-1496 Reefer kit.
                    > > What suffix?
                    > > A was Fruit Grower's Express, B was C&NW, C was MDT, D was
                    Wilson,
                    > > and E was Pluto.
                    > > To give an idea of size as compared to half-zero, dimensions
                    from
                    > > the catalog are, length over end sills 6-5/8", Extreme width1-
                    > 9/16",
                    > > Coupler Height 15/32" (compare to half-zero nmra standards....),
                    > and
                    > > height from railhead to top of roofwalk, 2-3/16".
                    > >
                    > > Also, the 1937 catalog mentions the curtain going up on the
                    > new "00"
                    > > line....
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the
                    > point
                    > > about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did).
                    > > >
                    > > > North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both
                    use
                    > > 4mm to the foot.
                    > > >
                    > > > There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm
                    > > finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefour.org/).
                    > > >
                    > > > The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the
                    1920s,
                    > > when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or
                    > > 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as
                    a
                    > > trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I
                    don't
                    > > have my notes beside me right now).
                    > > >
                    > > > A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry
                    > > Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room
                    for
                    > > electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North
                    > > American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said
                    (and
                    > > proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8"
                    > > electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own
                    > motors.
                    > > >
                    > > > Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own
                    > > mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late
                    > > 1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with
                    huge
                    > > horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small
                    > locomotive
                    > > bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted
                    for
                    > > the 4mm scale.
                    > > >
                    > > > As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather
                    later
                    > > in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful
                    Alnico
                    > > magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors
                    > > possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave
                    > more
                    > > room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by
                    the
                    > > problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale.
                    > > >
                    > > > By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all
                    > > commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We
                    > > still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british-
                    > > ho.com).
                    > > >
                    > > > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0
                    scale:
                    > > >
                    > > > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout
                    > > > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth
                    > > > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.
                    > > >
                    > > > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and
                    a
                    > > few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp
                    that
                    > > made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal
                    coupler
                    > > was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced
                    many
                    > > copies here and in Continental Europe later.
                    > > >
                    > > > Andy Emmerson.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1998 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                    Don--your car is definitely a Mantua.  The body should be a sheet metal channel with embossed card sides, die cast underframe and ends.  Frame held on with screws below the coupler pocket area.
                     
                    The one on eBay is hard to tell--its box is too new for  that type car, as I recall them.  Never encountered a kit in other than the medium blue box.  There ws a transition period when they went to plastic bodies with the die-cast frame and had the Mantua couplers mounted to the trucks. The pix on eBay don't give a good look.  (I have examples of just about all the old Mantua line--missing only the Atlantic. )  gj
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:44 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery gondola

                    Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the scrapbox,
                    and we couldn't figure out what it was? The general consensus was it MIGHT
                    have be an old Mantua.

                    Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today

                    http://cgi.ebay. com/Vintage- Mantua-TP- Texas-Pacific- Gondola-Car- in-Box_W0QQitemZ 130065468308

                    I think the mystery's solved.

                    Don

                    don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                    http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                    Owner-Moderator
                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                    Co-moderator
                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1999 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: General Questions.......
                    Loren--you seem to be old enough to barely remember those, as I do--the kit
                    is the same vintage I am!.

                    Scale Models, Inc. was also known as Scale Craft. It was an off-shoot of
                    the Reuben R Donnelly printing firm--son Elliott Donnelly was the
                    railroader. They made kits in both O and OO Scales.

                    OO is not the same as today's HO--you're thinking British. US OO was 4mm to
                    the foot, running on 19mm gauge track--which is very close to 3/4 inch. In
                    fact, it was used by a lot of the early On3 modelers as a running start.
                    It is an intereesting artifact. I have a moderate accumulation of SC OO
                    equipment--if yoiu must dispose of the kit--let me know.

                    In the mid-to late 1930's the majority of modelers were working in one of
                    the O Scales (1/4", 17/64", or 7mm to the foot on 1 1/4" gauge track, or
                    1/4" scale on 1 3/16" gauge track, also known as "Q" gage. Even then there
                    were movements to get away from the five-foot gauge models. Some were
                    feeling the space pinch even then, and a pair of smaller scales entered the
                    market--HO as we know it, 3.5 mm to the foot, and OO at 4mm to the ft. The
                    two scales competed head to head until WWII shut down the production. After
                    the war, HO manufacturers got back into the market a bit quicker and with
                    more new goodies, and OO died out. Lionel had entered the OO market with a
                    Hudson in two detail grades, and choice of 3-rail or 2-rail. They made die
                    cast boxcars, tank cars, hoppers, and a caboose. The last three were blatant
                    copies of the same kits by Scale Craft. SC's boxcars had a rather strangely
                    peaked roof, which Lionel corrected to the proper slope.

                    SC and a couple of others resumed production after the war, but HHO won out.
                    Kemtron made a brass kit for a GP-7 in the early 50's, and offered kits
                    from the Lionel tooling for the cars.Schorr made F-3's similar to Varney's
                    HO ones, but with the "Chicken wire" sides. gj

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:41 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] General Questions.......


                    > Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group.
                    >
                    > Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that
                    > catagory......:-)
                    >
                    > I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers
                    >
                    > Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496:
                    >
                    > This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when
                    > you
                    > bought
                    > the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not
                    > assembled ), but
                    > glue and paints along with decals.......
                    >
                    > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
                    > Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit
                    > appears to be complete
                    > but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still
                    > has some of the solvent ( Oil )
                    > in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the
                    > bottom. The red doesn't
                    > appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a
                    > silver unlabeled tube of what I am
                    > guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat
                    > to
                    > see the plan sheet that came
                    > with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen.
                    > ( Old school draughtsman
                    > knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen
                    > was
                    > in vogue, but it wasn't
                    > too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen
                    > were
                    > frustrated artists.....:-)
                    >
                    > One other question if I may:
                    >
                    > Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today?
                    >
                    > Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide.
                    >
                    > Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton"
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________________
                    > Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
                    > by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2000 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                    The motor issue was a bit of the reason even after WW-II why OO was seeing
                    some activity in the USA. For the HO modeller, you almost HAD to model the
                    Pennsylvania RR, because the motors needed the belpair firbox to have room.

                    "Eric LaNal" was actually Allan Rice, a pioneer in HO here in the US.

                    Don

                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                    Owner-Moderator
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                    Co-moderator
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Andrew Emmerson
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:44 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 00 gauge


                    In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point about the
                    gauge difference (apologies if someone did).

                    North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use 4mm to the
                    foot.

                    There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm finescale
                    nodelling (see http://www.scalefour.org/).

                    The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s, when 00
                    was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or 16.5mm track. H0 was
                    not used at that time and was 'invented' as a trade mark by Marshall Stewart
                    Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't have my notes beside me right now).

                    A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry Greenly stated
                    a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for electric mechanisms in
                    locos built to our restricted (by North American standards) loading gauge,
                    whilst Arthur Walkley said (and proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them
                    made a working 3/8" electric loco to prove his point, in each case making
                    his own motors.

                    Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own mechanisms but
                    preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late 1920s all the trade could
                    make was rather clumsy motors with huge horseshoe magnets and these did not
                    fit easily into small locomotive bodies. So most modellers accepted
                    Greenly's advice and opted for the 4mm scale.

                    As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later in the
                    USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico magnet had been
                    invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors possible and as mentioned
                    before, the larger loading gauge gave more room for motors in any case. So
                    you folk were not hampered by the problems that had led most British
                    modellers to adopt 4mm scale.

                    By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all commercial 16.5mm
                    trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We still have a number of keen
                    workers on H0, however (www.british-ho.com).

                    Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:

                    1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout
                    2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth
                    3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.

                    His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a few months
                    later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that made auto uncoupling
                    possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler was extremely popular in
                    Britain and it must have influenced many copies here and in Continental
                    Europe later.

                    Andy Emmerson.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2001 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: General Questions.......
                    I got carried away with the OO, forgot about the other question. Those
                    transformers are always usable. At least for powering lights, switch
                    machines, and the like.

                    The better Lionel transformers, the 1033 and the bigger ones, can be used as
                    good power supplies. They have variable transformers in their design--
                    basically the same as the "Variac" that MR used to promote before the dawn
                    of electronic throttles. I just hang a bridge rectifier on the output and
                    connect them to some of my fancier throttles--I have a couple of them
                    powering my PBL Foreground Sound Systems, and more running my Aristo "Train
                    Engineer" cabs for the garden railway. The 1033 puts out about 5.5 amps at
                    16 volts--will easily run two LGB Krokodil's or Bachmann Shays.

                    gj
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:41 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] General Questions.......


                    > Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group.
                    >
                    > Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that
                    > catagory......:-)
                    >
                    > I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers
                    >
                    > Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496:
                    >
                    > This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when
                    > you
                    > bought
                    > the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not
                    > assembled ), but
                    > glue and paints along with decals.......
                    >
                    > My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
                    > Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit
                    > appears to be complete
                    > but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still
                    > has some of the solvent ( Oil )
                    > in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the
                    > bottom. The red doesn't
                    > appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a
                    > silver unlabeled tube of what I am
                    > guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat
                    > to
                    > see the plan sheet that came
                    > with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen.
                    > ( Old school draughtsman
                    > knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen
                    > was
                    > in vogue, but it wasn't
                    > too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen
                    > were
                    > frustrated artists.....:-)
                    >
                    > One other question if I may:
                    >
                    > Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today?
                    >
                    > Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide.
                    >
                    > Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton"
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________________
                    > Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
                    > by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2002 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                    Probably not. I knind of blew my Christmas bonus on eBay already.

                    Don
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "takefive247" <takefive@...>
                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 2:38 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola


                    > That's interesting. Wish there was someone who kept track of the box
                    > style, numbers, contents and changes Mantua made. I may bid on those
                    > myself cept I have to much now. Let me know if you go for it or not.
                    > Bill
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> The same seller has some original Mantua tank cars with tank wrapper
                    > too.
                    >> Those I'm almost tempted to bid.
                    >>
                    >> Don
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2003 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                    Mine appears to a metallic finished paper (foil) laminated to metal. It
                    FEELS like plastic, but it's not.

                    Don

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "takefive247" <takefive@...>
                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:42 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola


                    > I don't think so. Looks plastic to me. I have both. I believe the
                    > all metal with paper sides was a #C-700. The #310 was plastic. Not
                    > 100% sure.
                    >
                    > Bill
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides.
                    >> http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg
                    >> Larry
                    >> http://www.hoseeker.net/
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2004 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                    The Mantua coupler always had the truned brass pin to raise the hook to uncouple.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:18 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola

                    Dave,
                     
                    The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..
                     
                    The car itself is intriguing.. .and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.
                     
                    As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.
                     
                    Sincerely,
                     
                     
                     
                    Dave Slater <daslater@sasktel. net> wrote:
                    Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG>
                    Dave S.
                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>   wrote:    
                    Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the       
                    scrapbox,     
                    and we couldn't figure out what it was?  The general consensus was       
                    it MIGHT     
                    have be an old Mantua.    Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today    http://cgi.ebay. com/Vintage- Mantua-TP- Texas-Pacific- Gondola-Car- in-      
                    Box_W0QQitemZ130065 468308    
                    I think the mystery's solved.    Don    don.dellmann@ ...  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann  Owner-Moderator  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO  Co-moderator  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY        
                               Yahoo! Groups Links    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/    <*> Your email
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                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2005 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: The "Camelot" of OO...
                    I think he is gone--I have bought some of his equipment and bid on others on eBay. gj
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 2:33 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] The "Camelot" of OO...

                    Dear Loren,
                     
                    The OO is British (I think you know that) and is slightly larger than HO in scale dimensions. The greatest OO layout I ever saw was almost forty years ago in a suburb of Philadelphia, Pa., built by a then retired gentleman named (if I recall right) Ed Costello. It was featured on the cover of an issue of Railroad Model Craftsman in the later 1970's, not too long before or just after the 1977 NMRA national convention (here in Denver) elevated him to the ranks of the master craftsmen. Well he deserved that.
                     
                    His "Saint Anne" railroad (named for his wife) was a marvel in many ways. He actually machined his own scale rail...beside hand-laying it. He built all of his own locomotives, including some second or third generation diesels (he was not just steam.)  He had operating block operations that controlled his trains over the same track way ahead of modern day systems...it looked like the thing ran itself...and not a computer in sight in his place. For a change of pace, he dimmed the attic lights and the scene became night with properly illuminated towns and individual structures along the rights-of-way. I'd put it up against any DCC operation today (and I'm not DCC.)  It was, in its time, the magnificent marriage of existing technology and art, having been by 1968 (when I was first there) 35+ years into its construction (what layout is ever finished?)
                     
                    The one gentleman is right. The OO modelers here are gone-as I'm sure Ed is. I do not know about any others of that scale, but what I saw would have been worthy of the Smithsonian after his death. I fear it has vanished like the ancient cities and temples along the Nile, a tribute to a magnificence that once was.
                     
                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)   
                     
                     

                    Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com> wrote:
                    Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group.

                    Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that
                    catagory.... ..:-)

                    I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers

                    Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496:

                    This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you
                    bought
                    the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not
                    assembled ), but
                    glue and paints along with decals...... .

                    My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
                    Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit
                    appears to be complete
                    but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still
                    has some of the solvent ( Oil )
                    in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the
                    bottom. The red doesn't
                    appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a
                    silver unlabeled tube of what I am
                    guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat to
                    see the plan sheet that came
                    with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen.
                    ( Old school draughtsman
                    knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen was
                    in vogue, but it wasn't
                    too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen were
                    frustrated artists..... :-)

                    One other question if I may:

                    Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today?

                    Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

                    Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton"

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                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2006 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: General Questions.......
                    No--17/64" and 7m scales were NOT "Q".  "Q" was promoted by Minton Cronkite and others as a correction of the track gauge for 1/4" scale.  "Q" stands for "Quarter inch".  The 17/64" scale sought to correct the error by keeping the 1 1/4" track but making the models larger.   Q kept the fairly coarse (by today's standards) wheel profile that O used, while nearly correcting the track gauge error.  In recent years the movement has kept alive through the "!/4 AAR" and now "Proto:48" modelers.   gj
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:11 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: General Questions.......

                    Loren, Dave and list: For evaluation and precise measurement, OO scale
                    is 4.0 mm to the foot whereas, HO scale is 3.5 mm to the foot.
                    Negligeable difference but, definitely and noticeably larger.

                    HO designation was and is, half O scale however, 7 mm is not the same as
                    1/4" to the foot. 7 mm is, 17/64" scale, sometimes refered to as Q
                    scale. To the discerning eye, Q scale is more desireable as that
                    matches the track gauge commonly used with O scale model railroads.
                    Confused? Who knows why the O scale track gauge is not exact to 1/4"
                    scale, I don't.

                    FWIW.... Don L.

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2007 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                    I think Linn's drawing goes much further back than the fifties---Linn was another of the hobby's "notables" I have been privileged to have known.  I recall a conversation that included a bit about that loco drawing.  He seemed to like including little things like that.  I had commented about articles by a kid named "Westcott" in the earliest issues of MR--he said that Al Kalmbach made him such an offer that he dropped out of college to work for MR.  gj
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:03 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola

                    Errors from copying models are nothing new.  The same way with plans.  One of the most famous ones was back in the late '50's Lynn Wescott drew a plan for MODEL RAILROADER of a Vulcan 0-4-2-t saddle tanker.  As a lark, he included on the plan the herald for his own fictional "Northwest" railway.
                     
                    A couple years later, Athearn brought out their "Li'l monster" 0-4-2-t Vulcan, and sure enough, there was the "NW" herald proudly emblazoned on the tank.  What's even funnier, a year or so later GEM imported a BRASS version, and it too had the "Northwest" herald.
                     
                    Don
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:18 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola

                    Dave,
                     
                    The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..
                     
                    The car itself is intriguing.. .and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.
                     
                    As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.
                     
                    Sincerely,
                     
                     
                     

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2008 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
                    very good illustration.  Are you operating the OO cars?  the Kadee coupler would give that impression.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:30 AM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

                    Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman

                    --
                    http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2009 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: General Questions.......
                    part of the HO/OO confusion comes from the British, who build to 4mm scale but operate it on HO (16.5mm gauge) track.
                     
                    As to the transformers--the typical Lioinel transformer puts out 16 volts AC.  Watts divided by Volts = Amps, if I recall correctly, so the 80-watt 1033 transformer puts out 5.5 amps at 16 volts. gj
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:36 AM
                    Subject: RE: [vintageHO] General Questions.......

                    Hi, I think some of the other folks can give you a better answer on the
                    details of oo scale. I do know it is NOT the same as HO. The oo scale is a
                    bit bigger than HO, but uses the same track gauge. I think you can probably
                    run your oo cars with the HO, but they will look a bit out of scale.
                    As far as the transformers, I never throw away old transformers. Some of
                    the more powerful Lionel transformers might be usable as power supplies for
                    DCC controllers. Also, don't forget the old transformers may be used to
                    power light, switch machines, animation, and sound modules. Mostly in order
                    to use them you will need to know the voltage and current rating
                    capablilities. An inexpensive Radio Shack, Home Depot, or Lowes multimeter
                    would be very useful for these applications.

                    Vic Bitleris
                    Raleigh, NC

                    ----Original Message Follows----
                    From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                    Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                    Subject: [vintageHO] General Questions... ....
                    Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:41:34 -0800

                    Came across this group awhile back think through the G&D group.

                    Never had much interest in the "old stuff" until I found myself in that
                    catagory.... ..:-)

                    I had a couple of questions for anyone who might have the answers

                    Scale models, Inc - OO Refer Car Kit K-1496:

                    This apprears to be a 1941 vintage wood kit. Apparently back then when you
                    bought
                    the kit you got not only wood & metal parts ( trucks included but not
                    assembled ), but
                    glue and paints along with decals...... .

                    My question: Does the OO equate to HO of today?
                    Does the above referenced item have any value? ( The kit
                    appears to be complete
                    but the paint has pretty much had it. The yellow still
                    has some of the solvent ( Oil )
                    in the jar, but the paint has settled and caked on the
                    bottom. The red doesn't
                    appear to have much if any solvent left. There is a
                    silver unlabeled tube of what I am
                    guessing is/was glue of some kind. ) It's really neat
                    to
                    see the plan sheet that came
                    with this kit. The original must have been ink on linen.
                    ( Old school draughtsman
                    knowledge. I didn't start draughting when ink & linen
                    was
                    in vogue, but it wasn't
                    too much after that time. I always felt draughtsmen
                    were
                    frustrated artists..... :-)

                    One other question if I may:

                    Do old Lionel or Marx transformers have any use or value today?

                    Anyway thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

                    Loren, aka: "the old guy in Beaverton"

                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                    Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
                    by Pandora. http://radio. msn.com/? icid=T002MSN03A0 7001

                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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                    it all. http://tv.msn. com/tv/globes200 7/?icid=nctaglin e1

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2010 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
                    The Japanese coupler is a mirror-image of the Baker and will not operate reliably with them,  looking down on them the loops are like "b" and "d" 
                     
                    The late Allan Fenton, who saved the original John Allen (and Bill Corsa's) Timesaver layouts and brought them to PCR and NMRA conventions for many years, used the Baker couplers on the contest.  He tried the Japanese couplers and found that they would not work with the Bakers. gj
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:00 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] couplers, was Mystery gondola

                    > The Triang as I recall (at least the ones I saw) had a much wider loop
                    > that was fixed directly to the frame.

                    Perfectly correct. It still is. Bachmann 4mm scale products for the British
                    market have a slightly narrower version of the Triang (now Hornby) coupler
                    that looks fairly similar to the old (German) Fleischmann coupler. Old timer
                    of course recognise all of these as copies of the old Baker couplers used in
                    the USA and still produced in Japan.

                    QUESTION: Does anyone know who 'Baker' was and which makes first used Baker
                    couplers?

                    For those who may be puzzled, the Hornby of today is not the Hornby of old.
                    Hornby Dublo trains (16.5mm gauge, 4mm scale) were introduced in 1938
                    (http://www.hrca. net/hornby_ dublo_history. html) and in those days used a
                    coupler not dissimilar to the Mantua loop. In 1947 they adopted the Peco
                    'Simplex' coupling. Around the same time British Trix trains changed to the
                    same Simplex coupler from the pre-war Trix coupler.

                    In 1964 Hornby Dublo was taken over by Triang, who then used the Hornby name
                    (which had a longer history) for the combined product range.

                    Andy Emmerson.

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2011 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: couplers, was Mystery gondola
                    Whit Towers also used Baker Couplers.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:04 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] couplers, was Mystery gondola


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@ ntlworld. com>
                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:00 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] couplers, was Mystery gondola

                    >> The Triang as I recall (at least the ones I saw) had a much wider loop
                    >> that was fixed directly to the frame.
                    >
                    > Perfectly correct. It still is. Bachmann 4mm scale products for the
                    > British
                    > market have a slightly narrower version of the Triang (now Hornby) coupler
                    > that looks fairly similar to the old (German) Fleischmann coupler. Old
                    > timer
                    > of course recognise all of these as copies of the old Baker couplers used
                    > in
                    > the USA and still produced in Japan.
                    >
                    > QUESTION: Does anyone know who 'Baker' was and which makes first used
                    > Baker
                    > couplers?

                    I believe the company was "Baker Engineering" although I may be wrong. I
                    don't think any manufacturer included them in kits, but the most famous user
                    was of of course the late John Allen, who used Baker couplers exclusively on
                    the Gorre & Daphetid right up to the end.

                    Don

                    don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                    http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                    Owner-Moderator
                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                    Co-moderator
                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2012 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
                    To me--OO has just that slight extra bulk that makes it look interesting. I plan to operate some of my OO collection on the On3 layout when I get that far--gj
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:58 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

                    And another one!
                     
                    Andy Emmerson.
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:30 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

                    Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman

                    --
                    http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2013 From: John Barlow Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                    Not in the 1954 era kits I have.
                     
                    John

                    Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                    The Mantua coupler always had the truned brass pin to raise the hook to uncouple.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:18 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola

                    Dave,
                     
                    The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..
                     
                    The car itself is intriguing.. .and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.
                     
                    As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.
                     
                    Sincerely,
                     
                     
                     
                    Dave Slater <daslater@sasktel. net> wrote:
                    Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG>
                    Dave S.
                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>   wrote:    
                    Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the       
                    scrapbox,     
                    and we couldn't figure out what it was?  The general consensus was       
                    it MIGHT     
                    have be an old Mantua.    Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today    http://cgi.ebay. com/Vintage- Mantua-TP- Texas-Pacific- Gondola-Car- in-      
                    Box_W0QQitemZ130065 468308    
                    I think the mystery's solved.    Don    don.dellmann@ ...  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann  Owner-Moderator  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO  Co-moderator  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY        
                               Yahoo! Groups Links    <*>
                     To visit your group on the web, go to:      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/    <*> Your email   settings:      Individual Email | Traditional    <*> To change settings online go to:      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join      (Yahoo! ID required)    <*> To change settings via email:      mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com       mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:      http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/           

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                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2014 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                    I think that the reason we have 1 1/4" gauge for O is that that was a commonly produced tow train gauge.  And, since many modelers were not machinists, they used what wheels and mechanisms they couild find.  1 1/4" gauge.  Since scale rulers were also not well available, working to an easily-used scale was handy.  So we wound up with what some of us refer to as "Ob5", somewhat poking fun at oiur gauge error. gj
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: John Hagen
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:23 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                    Wanna know why there is a NMRA? I seem seeing several instances
                    where "HO" scale was referred to as 1/8"/ft. I've also seen
                    statements saying "HO" stood for "half-O" (I'm talking 40's - early
                    50's here). It all seems to go back to the British using the metric
                    system and us Americans using our sytems of...whatever it's called. I
                    can't recall a name for it, but then I can't recall where I set my
                    coffee down just as I began to type this. It's my CRS (can't remember
                    s**t) kicking up again. In Merry Olde England and probably the rest
                    of Europe, "O" scale was (is?) 7 mm scale so therefore, "HO" at 3.5
                    mm scale was "half O". But we imported certain standards from
                    England, including the "O" scale track gauge and the 3.5 mm scale
                    for "HO". Of course, we revolutionaries used 1/4"/ft scale (.635 mm)
                    for everything "O" scale EXCEPT the track. The 17/64"/ft scale was
                    much closer to the track scale and so a certain group of "O" scalers,
                    including some manufacturers, built to that standard. When "HO"
                    started overhere, some modelers, apparently wanting to use our
                    fractional sysytem of measurement instead of the metric system, built
                    1/8" "HO" scale. Of course they used the 16.5 mm track so they were
                    basically running on 5 ft gauge track just like their "O" scale
                    brothern. Thankfully, the was little of the 1/8" "HO" scale. By the
                    time "HO" gained much of a following, the NMRA had been established.
                    I believe the hobby owes much of it's growth to the NMRA and the
                    standards they established. Yeah, I know, they used the 1.25" track
                    gauge as the "O" scale standard when it should of been 1.177".
                    But "O" scale was already quite well established in 1935 and that was
                    the most common scale/gauge in use. And their purpose was not to set
                    standards that were exact-to-scale (who but a very few could get what
                    is essentially Proto 48 to run in those days) but rather come up with
                    workable standards that would be used on an industry-wide basis. "HO"
                    was still very much in it's formative stages and they were able to
                    set the standards to 3.5 mm scale. I would much rather model in "HO"
                    here rather then "HO" or "OO" or dublo or what the h*#l scale(s) they
                    have to deal with accross the pond there matey! I mean I really like
                    much of the british steam but if I come accross a British prototype
                    model locomotive for sale I can't figure out if it runs on "HO" track
                    and if so is it "HO" or "OO" in scale.....

                    John Hgen

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Depends.
                    > Like running "0" on 1.25" track.
                    > Should be what, 1.130" or so?
                    > The dublo stuff coming out now (think "Thomas") runs on half-zero
                    > track.
                    > I read a dissertation once on North Amaerican 00 VS Brit Dublo,
                    > All the stuff here ran on half-zero track, if I recall, Lionel,
                    > ScaleCraft, all of them.
                    > Since this one was ScaleCraft (US Made), I didn't think a
                    discussion
                    > of Euro gauge differences was part of it.
                    > Maybe so.
                    >
                    > BTW, in my 1941 ScaleCraft catalog, they list a C&NW 4-8-4, a 4-6-
                    4,
                    > a 4-6-4T, an 0-6-0, gas-electrics, heavyweight passenger cars,
                    > reefers, box, stock,tank, flat, hopper and caboose.
                    >
                    > Just to ask, it's a K-1496 Reefer kit.
                    > What suffix?
                    > A was Fruit Grower's Express, B was C&NW, C was MDT, D was Wilson,
                    > and E was Pluto.
                    > To give an idea of size as compared to half-zero, dimensions from
                    > the catalog are, length over end sills 6-5/8", Extreme width1-
                    9/16",
                    > Coupler Height 15/32" (compare to half-zero nmra standards... .),
                    and
                    > height from railhead to top of roofwalk, 2-3/16".
                    >
                    > Also, the 1937 catalog mentions the curtain going up on the
                    new "00"
                    > line....
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the
                    point
                    > about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did).
                    > >
                    > > North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use
                    > 4mm to the foot.
                    > >
                    > > There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm
                    > finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefou r.org/).
                    > >
                    > > The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s,
                    > when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or
                    > 16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a
                    > trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't
                    > have my notes beside me right now).
                    > >
                    > > A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry
                    > Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for
                    > electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North
                    > American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and
                    > proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8"
                    > electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own
                    motors.
                    > >
                    > > Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own
                    > mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late
                    > 1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge
                    > horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small
                    locomotive
                    > bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for
                    > the 4mm scale.
                    > >
                    > > As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later
                    > in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico
                    > magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors
                    > possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave
                    more
                    > room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the
                    > problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale.
                    > >
                    > > By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all
                    > commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We
                    > still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british-
                    > ho.com).
                    > >
                    > > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:
                    > >
                    > > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout
                    > > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth
                    > > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.
                    > >
                    > > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a
                    > few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that
                    > made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler
                    > was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many
                    > copies here and in Continental Europe later.
                    > >
                    > > Andy Emmerson.
                    > >
                    >

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2015 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                    No, Dave--the US OO runs on 3/4" or 19mm track. Got a bunch of it here.  gj
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: curmudgeon
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:32 AM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                    Depends.
                    Like running "0" on 1.25" track.
                    Should be what, 1.130" or so?
                    The dublo stuff coming out now (think "Thomas") runs on half-zero
                    track.
                    I read a dissertation once on North Amaerican 00 VS Brit Dublo,
                    All the stuff here ran on half-zero track, if I recall, Lionel,
                    ScaleCraft, all of them.
                    Since this one was ScaleCraft (US Made), I didn't think a discussion
                    of Euro gauge differences was part of it.
                    Maybe so.

                    BTW, in my 1941 ScaleCraft catalog, they list a C&NW 4-8-4, a 4-6-4,
                    a 4-6-4T, an 0-6-0, gas-electrics, heavyweight passenger cars,
                    reefers, box, stock,tank, flat, hopper and caboose.

                    Just to ask, it's a K-1496 Reefer kit.
                    What suffix?
                    A was Fruit Grower's Express, B was C&NW, C was MDT, D was Wilson,
                    and E was Pluto.
                    To give an idea of size as compared to half-zero, dimensions from
                    the catalog are, length over end sills 6-5/8", Extreme width1-9/16" ,
                    Coupler Height 15/32" (compare to half-zero nmra standards... .), and
                    height from railhead to top of roofwalk, 2-3/16".

                    Also, the 1937 catalog mentions the curtain going up on the new "00"
                    line....

                    >
                    > In all the messages on 00 gauge I didn't see anyone make the point
                    about the gauge difference (apologies if someone did).
                    >
                    > North American 00 gauge is 19mm, British 00 is 16.5mm. Both use
                    4mm to the foot.
                    >
                    > There is a growing movement in Britain to use 18.83mm for 4mm
                    finescale nodelling (see http://www.scalefou r.org/).
                    >
                    > The confusion over two 00 gauges arose already back in the 1920s,
                    when 00 was used (in Britain) for all trains running on 5/8" or
                    16.5mm track. H0 was not used at that time and was 'invented' as a
                    trade mark by Marshall Stewart Ltd in either 1927 or 1928 (I don't
                    have my notes beside me right now).
                    >
                    > A rift soon arose between the two leading lights of 00. Henry
                    Greenly stated a scale of 4mm to the foot would allow more room for
                    electric mechanisms in locos built to our restricted (by North
                    American standards) loading gauge, whilst Arthur Walkley said (and
                    proved) he was talking rubbish. Walkley them made a working 3/8"
                    electric loco to prove his point, in each case making his own motors.
                    >
                    > Most modellers were not at all interested in making their own
                    mechanisms but preferred to buy off-the-shelf mechs. In the late
                    1920s all the trade could make was rather clumsy motors with huge
                    horseshoe magnets and these did not fit easily into small locomotive
                    bodies. So most modellers accepted Greenly's advice and opted for
                    the 4mm scale.
                    >
                    > As far as I can see, 16.5mm gauge modelling took off rather later
                    in the USA, around 1934. By this time the extremely powerful Alnico
                    magnet had been invented (in 1933), making much smaller motors
                    possible and as mentioned before, the larger loading gauge gave more
                    room for motors in any case. So you folk were not hampered by the
                    problems that had led most British modellers to adopt 4mm scale.
                    >
                    > By that time the die was cast in Britain and virtually all
                    commercial 16.5mm trains were made to 4mm scale from then on. We
                    still have a number of keen workers on H0, however (www.british-
                    ho.com).
                    >
                    > Walkley was a true pioneer and devised three firsts in H0 scale:
                    >
                    > 1. The compact, folding 16.5mm layout
                    > 2. The hidden 'fiddle yard' concealed behind a tunnel mouth
                    > 3. The first auto-coupler for 16.5mm.
                    >
                    > His auto-coupler did not uncouple automatically, however, and a
                    few months later 'Eric LaNal' devised the 'dangler' and ramp that
                    made auto uncoupling possible. In the early 1930s the LaNal coupler
                    was extremely popular in Britain and it must have influenced many
                    copies here and in Continental Europe later.
                    >
                    > Andy Emmerson.
                    >

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2016 From: Glenn Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                    they screwed in, and did fall out--
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 5:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola

                    Not in the 1954 era kits I have.
                     
                    John

                    Glenn <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                    The Mantua coupler always had the truned brass pin to raise the hook to uncouple.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:18 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola

                    Dave,
                     
                    The coupler is not Triang. The box art, if you will, goes back to the early to mid-1950's when Mantua offered the "loop and hook" type couplers. My first two HO models in 1954 were a Mantua bobber caboose (Reading style) and all-metal 40-foot flat car, both having this type of coupler. With a year or so, a vertical piece was added as an attachment to the hook's shaft bottom to assist in non-hand uncoupling; but the NMRA "horn" was soon to render the old "hoop and hook" (in whatever form) obsolete. How antiquated and unprototypical we view the "horn" today, given the Kadees and McHenry's, etc., of decades since then..
                     
                    The car itself is intriguing.. .and the answer may rest within some issue of the Car Encyclopedia . I think many prototypes were off erred then that were not carried over into the plastics of the 1960's.
                     
                    As for strange gondolas, the passing decades have seen a strange offering in Pennsylvania decor of either oxide red, brown, or black with white lettering and the whote-encased PRR Keystone. The classification is always "G-101". The PRR never had such a class. The answer rests with some old Varney ads from the very early-1950's. The "G-101" was Varney's catalog number for that car, perhaps freelance, but every manufacturer who used the mold or paint screening inadvertently carried that mistaken use down through the years.
                     
                    Sincerely,
                     
                     
                     
                    Dave Slater <daslater@sasktel. net> wrote:
                    Looks almost like it has an old TriAng style coupler on it as well...  <VBG>
                    Dave S.
                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>   wrote:    
                    Remember a while back I finished this car out of parts from the       
                    scrapbox,     
                    and we couldn't figure out what it was?  The general consensus was       
                    it MIGHT     
                    have be an old Mantua.    Compare this picture with the auction I found on eBay today    http://cgi.ebay. com/Vintage- Mantua-TP- Texas-Pacific- Gondola-Car- in-      
                    Box_W0QQitemZ130065 468308    
                    I think the mystery's solved.    Don    don.dellmann@ ...  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann  Owner-Moderator  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO  Co-moderator  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY        
                               Yahoo! Groups Links    <*>
                     To visit your group on the web, go to:      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/    <*> Your email   settings:      Individual Email | Traditional    <*> To change settings online go to:      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join      (Yahoo! ID required)    <*> To change settings via email:      mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com       mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:      http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/           

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                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2017 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                    I recall Hal Carstens, the former publisher of Railroad Model Crafstman,
                    refer to 1/8" to the foot as E scale. Never no mention of a track
                    gauge. Roger Aultman





                    John Hagen wrote:
                    > Wanna know why there is a NMRA? I seem seeing several instances
                    > where "HO" scale was referred to as 1/8"/ft.


                    --
                    http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2018 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                    Don
                    I meant the one on Ebay looks to be plastic
                    Bill


                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Mine appears to a metallic finished paper (foil) laminated to metal.
                    It
                    > FEELS like plastic, but it's not.
                    >
                    > Don
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "takefive247" <takefive@...>
                    > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:42 PM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola
                    >
                    >
                    > > I don't think so. Looks plastic to me. I have both. I believe the
                    > > all metal with paper sides was a #C-700. The #310 was plastic. Not
                    > > 100% sure.
                    > >
                    > > Bill
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@> wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> I believe this is a mantua gondola with paper sides.
                    > >> http://hoseeker.net/mantuatycocarinstructions/mantuapapercarsides.jpg
                    > >> Larry
                    > >> http://www.hoseeker.net/
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2019 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/7/2007
                    Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                    Attachments :
                      Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains are
                      made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are built
                      to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. Same
                      principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling stock.

                      The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining factor of
                      what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer the
                      differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even though they
                      perform on the same track gauge.

                      Don L.
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2020 From: takefive247 Date: 1/7/2007
                      Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                      Glenn,
                      That's what I thought. I've been trying to figure it out for
                      awhile now. Do you know what years Mantua used that box? For that
                      matter, any of the years they changed boxes?
                      Bill


                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                      >

                      >
                      > The one on eBay is hard to tell--its box is too new for that type
                      car, as I recall them. Never encountered a kit in other than the
                      medium blue box. There ws a transition period when they went to
                      plastic bodies with the die-cast frame and had the Mantua couplers
                      mounted to the trucks.
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2021 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2007
                      Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
                      No operation at this point, have a Scale Craft 4-6-0 that runs but needs
                      much work. Roger




                      Glenn wrote:
                      > very good illustration. Are you operating the OO cars? the Kadee
                      > coupler would give that impression.
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Roger Aultman <mailto:raul@...>
                      > To: VINTAGE H-0 <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:30 AM
                      > Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
                      >
                      > Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman
                      >
                      > --
                      > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                      > <http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm>
                      >
                      > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/>
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                      Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2022 From: John Barlow Date: 1/7/2007
                      Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                      Cannot give span, but that box style was in use in 1954-55. My first mantua (first ever HO) came in that style box when I was eight years old.
                       
                      John

                      takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                      Glenn,
                      That's what I thought. I've been trying to figure it out for
                      awhile now. Do you know what years Mantua used that box? For that
                      matter, any of the years they changed boxes?
                      Bill

                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@.. .> wrote:
                      >

                      >
                      > The one on eBay is hard to tell--its box is too new for that type
                      car, as I recall them. Never encountered a kit in other than the
                      medium blue box. There ws a transition period when they went to
                      plastic bodies with the die-cast frame and had the Mantua couplers
                      mounted to the trucks.


                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2023 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/8/2007
                      Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                      Had to fight to get back in.
                      Yahoo drops connection for no reason and sometimes takes a bit to get
                      logged in.
                      Maybe the ones I have seen had either H0 trucks or wheelsets.
                      They rolled on H0 track.
                      Tempted many times to get the ScaleCraft 00 but I gotta draw a line
                      somewhere.
                      It is funny though, the folks who think HO means something different
                      than the H0 it was originally.
                      This link (one of many) http://www.marklin.com/about/timeline.html if
                      you look at 1935, it tells you.
                      Anybody old enough to remember that has to be close to 80.
                      Funny.

                      > No, Dave--the US OO runs on 3/4" or 19mm track. Got a bunch of it
                      here. gj

                      >
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2024 From: Glenn Date: 1/8/2007
                      Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                      Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since they both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar?  "Q" was the 1/4" scale trains running on 1 3/16"  (4'9" gauge) track.  Q was always 1/4".
                       
                      Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British run theirs on what is basically HO track. US  ran on fairly close to correct gauge.
                       
                      gj
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM
                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                      Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains are
                      made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are built
                      to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. Same
                      principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling stock.

                      The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining factor of
                      what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer the
                      differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even though they
                      perform on the same track gauge.

                      Don L.

                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2025 From: Glenn Date: 1/8/2007
                      Subject: Re: 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
                      I have one of those--and a second one that someone tried to make an atlantic out of. Doesn't pull worth beans.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 5:27 PM
                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON

                      No operation at this point, have a Scale Craft 4-6-0 that runs but needs
                      much work. Roger

                      Glenn wrote:
                      > very good illustration. Are you operating the OO cars? the Kadee
                      > coupler would give that impression.
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Roger Aultman <mailto:raul@nconnect. net>
                      > To: VINTAGE H-0 <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                      > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:30 AM
                      > Subject: [vintageHO] 00 - H-0 COMPARISON
                      >
                      > Pictures of the two sizes, they are not compatible. Roger Aultman
                      >
                      > --
                      > http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm
                      > <http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm>
                      >
                      > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/
                      > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/>
                      >
                      > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                      Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2026 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/8/2007
                      Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                      http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/scales.html
                      "Q SCALE
                      Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1'
                      STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track)
                      Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm
                      Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" "

                      Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track,
                      different scale.
                      Proto 48 is diferent gauge.
                      And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q" as 0
                      (17), I guess for 17/64ths:
                      "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2"

                      Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want
                      multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48), and now
                      they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge.

                      Go Figure.
                      Dave




                      > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since they
                      both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4"
                      scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always
                      1/4".
                      >
                      > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British run
                      theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to
                      correct gauge.
                      >
                      > gj
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: DLeistikow@...
                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                      >
                      >
                      > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains
                      are
                      > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are
                      built
                      > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge.
                      Same
                      > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling
                      stock.
                      >
                      > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining
                      factor of
                      > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer
                      the
                      > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even
                      though they
                      > perform on the same track gauge.
                      >
                      > Don L.
                      >
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2027 From: Glenn Date: 1/8/2007
                      Subject: Re: Mystery gondola
                      not for sure.  I just associate that style with the plastic cars. My collection ends at that point.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:09 PM
                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery gondola

                      Glenn,
                      That's what I thought. I've been trying to figure it out for
                      awhile now. Do you know what years Mantua used that box? For that
                      matter, any of the years they changed boxes?
                      Bill

                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@.. .> wrote:
                      >

                      >
                      > The one on eBay is hard to tell--its box is too new for that type
                      car, as I recall them. Never encountered a kit in other than the
                      medium blue box. There ws a transition period when they went to
                      plastic bodies with the die-cast frame and had the Mantua couplers
                      mounted to the trucks.

                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2028 From: Glenn Date: 1/8/2007
                      Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                      OK--so what was it that Minton Cronkite built?
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: curmudgeon
                      Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:44 PM
                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                      http://www.spikesys .com/Modelrr/ scales.html
                      "Q SCALE
                      Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1'
                      STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track)
                      Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm
                      Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" "

                      Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track,
                      different scale.
                      Proto 48 is diferent gauge.
                      And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q" as 0
                      (17), I guess for 17/64ths:
                      "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2"

                      Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want
                      multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48), and now
                      they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge.

                      Go Figure.
                      Dave

                      > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since they
                      both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4"
                      scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always
                      1/4".
                      >
                      > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British run
                      theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to
                      correct gauge.
                      >
                      > gj
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: DLeistikow@. ..
                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                      > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                      >
                      >
                      > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains
                      are
                      > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are
                      built
                      > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge.
                      Same
                      > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling
                      stock.
                      >
                      > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining
                      factor of
                      > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer
                      the
                      > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even
                      though they
                      > perform on the same track gauge.
                      >
                      > Don L.
                      >

                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2029 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/8/2007
                      Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                      I see references to "Q" and Cronkite, yet we always called it "Q"
                      (and so did the nmra) long before there was a PROTO:48.
                      I'll check.
                      It is odd. He also modelled in 17/64ths, so maybe some nomenclature
                      got crossed up?
                      Dave


                      > OK--so what was it that Minton Cronkite built?
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: curmudgeon
                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:44 PM
                      > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                      >
                      >
                      > http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/scales.html
                      > "Q SCALE
                      > Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1'
                      > STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track)
                      > Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm
                      > Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" "
                      >
                      > Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track,
                      > different scale.
                      > Proto 48 is diferent gauge.
                      > And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q" as
                      0
                      > (17), I guess for 17/64ths:
                      > "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2"
                      >
                      > Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want
                      > multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48), and
                      now
                      > they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge.
                      >
                      > Go Figure.
                      > Dave
                      >
                      > > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since
                      they
                      > both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4"
                      > scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always
                      > 1/4".
                      > >
                      > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British
                      run
                      > theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to
                      > correct gauge.
                      > >
                      > > gj
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: DLeistikow@
                      > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model
                      trains
                      > are
                      > > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc.,
                      are
                      > built
                      > > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge.
                      > Same
                      > > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling
                      > stock.
                      > >
                      > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining
                      > factor of
                      > > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer
                      > the
                      > > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even
                      > though they
                      > > perform on the same track gauge.
                      > >
                      > > Don L.
                      > >
                      >
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2030 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/8/2007
                      Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                      Okay, I checked.
                      One old-timer I called said "Q" was the gauge, not the scale.
                      Even though several "0" websites call Q as 1:45 and 17/64ths, that's
                      the scale, not the gauge.
                      The gauge was 1-3/16", which is NOT PROTO:48, but, if Minton had not
                      pioneered what he did, PROTO:48 probably would never have gotten off
                      the ground.
                      "Q" scale seems to be what we always called 17/64ths, but that was
                      scale of 1:45, not gauge.
                      Confusing?
                      You betcha.
                      Early pioneers of PROTO:48 called it AAR1/4 or something like that.

                      I have 17/64ths and "0" stuff, in fact, ScaleCraft did both (even if
                      not advertised).
                      Their SP P-13? Pacific was NYC Hudson drivers and chassis with K-4
                      geartrain, and the boiler was "adjusted" to look right to the
                      drivers.
                      Ran one once, worried if it was going to make it through the tunnels.
                      The passenger cars are 17/64ths, you can tell in a string of
                      Walthers cars.

                      I had a Mi-Loco 17/64ths NYC Hudson at one time, put it next to my
                      ScaleCraft Hudson and overall about 3/8" longer, if I recall.

                      So, there were two schools of terminology it seems.
                      Scale and gauge.
                      But for totally different animals.


                      >
                      > I see references to "Q" and Cronkite, yet we always called it "Q"
                      > (and so did the nmra) long before there was a PROTO:48.
                      > I'll check.
                      > It is odd. He also modelled in 17/64ths, so maybe some
                      nomenclature
                      > got crossed up?
                      > Dave
                      >
                      >
                      > > OK--so what was it that Minton Cronkite built?
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: curmudgeon
                      > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:44 PM
                      > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/scales.html
                      > > "Q SCALE
                      > > Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1'
                      > > STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track)
                      > > Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm
                      > > Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" "
                      > >
                      > > Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track,
                      > > different scale.
                      > > Proto 48 is diferent gauge.
                      > > And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q"
                      as
                      > 0
                      > > (17), I guess for 17/64ths:
                      > > "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2"
                      > >
                      > > Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want
                      > > multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48),
                      and
                      > now
                      > > they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge.
                      > >
                      > > Go Figure.
                      > > Dave
                      > >
                      > > > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since
                      > they
                      > > both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the
                      1/4"
                      > > scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was
                      always
                      > > 1/4".
                      > > >
                      > > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British
                      > run
                      > > theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close
                      to
                      > > correct gauge.
                      > > >
                      > > > gj
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: DLeistikow@
                      > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model
                      > trains
                      > > are
                      > > > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc.,
                      > are
                      > > built
                      > > > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track
                      gauge.
                      > > Same
                      > > > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad
                      rolling
                      > > stock.
                      > > >
                      > > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the
                      determining
                      > > factor of
                      > > > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I
                      prefer
                      > > the
                      > > > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even
                      > > though they
                      > > > perform on the same track gauge.
                      > > >
                      > > > Don L.
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2031 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/8/2007
                      Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                      Attachments :
                        Sorry, Glenn: You're reversing the two scales O and Q; and they both
                        use the same track gauge. Believe what you want and I'll do the same.

                        Don L.
                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2032 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/9/2007
                        Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                        >
                        >1g. Re: 00 gauge
                        > Posted by: "DLeistikow@..." DLeistikow@... dleistikowwebtvnet
                        > Date: Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:37 pm ((PST))
                        >
                        >Sorry, Glenn: You're reversing the two scales O and Q; and they both
                        >use the same track gauge. Believe what you want and I'll do the same.

                        I have a book "Model Trains - Railroads in the Making" originally published
                        in 1969 in Italian with English text printed in 1972. On its pages "Gauges
                        and Scales", it covers #1 through "X". As for "Q" it gives a gauge of 1
                        3/16 ins and states "Also referred to as a gauge of 1.188 in, this American
                        gauge uses a scale of 1/4 in to the foot. It has been replaced by O."

                        Under "O' it has five entries:


                        First: 0 (subscript 17) with a gauge of 1 1/4" "Using English instead of
                        metric measurements, this rarely used gauge uses a scale of 17/64 inches
                        to the foot."

                        Second: O, gauge of 32mm, "Appearing before WWI, the British O gauge is
                        still popular. The scale is 7mm to the foot."

                        Third: O, 1 1/4 in gauge plus "In America a scale if 1/4" to the foot is
                        normal an d a ratio of 1:48 as opposed to the 1:45.2 ratio of O (subscript
                        17)"

                        Fourth: O, 1 1/8 inch gauge, "A number of Continental models have appeared
                        using this gauge, built to a scale of 2cm to 1 meter.

                        And finally, OF, 32 mm gauge, " Also with a scale of 7mm to the foot, this
                        gauge uses much finer measurements; the rail height, for example, is only
                        half that of O, its ratio is 1:43.5

                        Hope this ads to the confusion.:)


                        Ray Hobin
                        NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                        Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2033 From: oljoeoh Date: 1/9/2007
                        Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                        I believe the "great American Railways" series that
                        Hallmark did was OO scale. I have all of them and
                        display several of them in the nice looking diaplay
                        cases they came with. I particularly like the
                        Hudson because it looks like the Lionel OO Hudson
                        I had as a kid. I loved to run that train but
                        was very frustrated by the knuckle couplers that
                        Lionel used - non-functional and prone to uncouple
                        if the track was not completely flat on the floor.
                        I also remember that it didn't run very well. Sounded
                        like PW locos that needed the brush plate replaced.
                        Dad, who couldn't fix anything, finally gave up trying
                        to get it fixed and traded it in on an 027 set in
                        the 50's.
                        Joe O'Loughlin


                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since they
                        both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4"
                        scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always 1/4".
                        >
                        > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British run
                        theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to
                        correct gauge.
                        >
                        > gj
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: DLeistikow@...
                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                        >
                        >
                        > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model trains are
                        > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc., are built
                        > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge. Same
                        > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling stock.
                        >
                        > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining
                        factor of
                        > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer the
                        > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even though
                        they
                        > perform on the same track gauge.
                        >
                        > Don L.
                        >
                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2034 From: Glenn Date: 1/9/2007
                        Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                        From what I recall Cronkite modeled 1:48 and corrected the gauge to 1 3/16.  One of the old-timers of O Scale that I knew weell (besides John Armstrong)  is Jerry White--long-time custom builder in many scales. We got into this subject many years ago concerningsome of the models on the West Bay Club layout.
                         
                        I'll have to look in some of my older stuff for the references. gj
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: curmudgeon
                        Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:18 PM
                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                        I see references to "Q" and Cronkite, yet we always called it "Q"
                        (and so did the nmra) long before there was a PROTO:48.
                        I'll check.
                        It is odd. He also modelled in 17/64ths, so maybe some nomenclature
                        got crossed up?
                        Dave

                        > OK--so what was it that Minton Cronkite built?
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: curmudgeon
                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                        > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:44 PM
                        > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                        >
                        >
                        > http://www.spikesys .com/Modelrr/ scales.html
                        > "Q SCALE
                        > Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1'
                        > STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track)
                        > Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm
                        > Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" "
                        >
                        > Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track,
                        > different scale.
                        > Proto 48 is diferent gauge.
                        > And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q" as
                        0
                        > (17), I guess for 17/64ths:
                        > "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2"
                        >
                        > Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want
                        > multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48), and
                        now
                        > they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge.
                        >
                        > Go Figure.
                        > Dave
                        >
                        > > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since
                        they
                        > both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the 1/4"
                        > scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was always
                        > 1/4".
                        > >
                        > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British
                        run
                        > theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close to
                        > correct gauge.
                        > >
                        > > gj
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: DLeistikow@
                        > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                        > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM
                        > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model
                        trains
                        > are
                        > > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc.,
                        are
                        > built
                        > > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track gauge.
                        > Same
                        > > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad rolling
                        > stock.
                        > >
                        > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the determining
                        > factor of
                        > > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I prefer
                        > the
                        > > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even
                        > though they
                        > > perform on the same track gauge.
                        > >
                        > > Don L.
                        > >
                        >

                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2035 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/9/2007
                        Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                        Attachments :
                          Glenn and list: I would concur that Q scale (17/64") would operate on a
                          scale track gauge of 1- 1/4".

                          O scale (1/4") also operates on the same track gauge of 1- 1/4". The
                          calculation that the correct track gauge for 'O scale' would be 1- 3
                          1/16", is entirely correct but, was never manufactured nor used as such.

                          Don L.
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2036 From: Glenn Date: 1/9/2007
                          Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                          "Q" with 17/64 and others does not make sense, as "Q" fits with "Quarter".
                           
                          Lobaugh also made both O Scales--I have a pre-was 0-6-0 switcher that is definitely 17/64, and a friend has one that his dad built in the late 40's that is distinctly smaller.  Likewise, I have the Thomas (17/64) and International (1/4") B&O 0-4-0's.  Where the comparison really shopwed the difference was in a passenger train. I had a 7-car string of Walthers and All Nation heavyweights--got a Mini-Scale Pullman--it was way bigger than the rest. Swapped it to a friend who had the matching Hudson. 
                           
                          Getting this back toward OO--I was in Lowes in Medford today--they had a bunch of table lamops--one had a "Lionel" 700E Hudson on the base--it looks like about the same size as those Lionmel OO hudsons I have, track measured close to 3/4". Loco is plastic, and I had other plans for the $50 the l;amt sells for--gj
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: curmudgeon
                          Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:47 PM
                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                          Okay, I checked.
                          One old-timer I called said "Q" was the gauge, not the scale.
                          Even though several "0" websites call Q as 1:45 and 17/64ths, that's
                          the scale, not the gauge.
                          The gauge was 1-3/16", which is NOT PROTO:48, but, if Minton had not
                          pioneered what he did, PROTO:48 probably would never have gotten off
                          the ground.
                          "Q" scale seems to be what we always called 17/64ths, but that was
                          scale of 1:45, not gauge.
                          Confusing?
                          You betcha.
                          Early pioneers of PROTO:48 called it AAR1/4 or something like that.

                          I have 17/64ths and "0" stuff, in fact, ScaleCraft did both (even if
                          not advertised).
                          Their SP P-13? Pacific was NYC Hudson drivers and chassis with K-4
                          geartrain, and the boiler was "adjusted" to look right to the
                          drivers.
                          Ran one once, worried if it was going to make it through the tunnels.
                          The passenger cars are 17/64ths, you can tell in a string of
                          Walthers cars.

                          I had a Mi-Loco 17/64ths NYC Hudson at one time, put it next to my
                          ScaleCraft Hudson and overall about 3/8" longer, if I recall.

                          So, there were two schools of terminology it seems.
                          Scale and gauge.
                          But for totally different animals.

                          >
                          > I see references to "Q" and Cronkite, yet we always called it "Q"
                          > (and so did the nmra) long before there was a PROTO:48.
                          > I'll check.
                          > It is odd. He also modelled in 17/64ths, so maybe some
                          nomenclature
                          > got crossed up?
                          > Dave
                          >
                          >
                          > > OK--so what was it that Minton Cronkite built?
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: curmudgeon
                          > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                          > > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:44 PM
                          > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > http://www.spikesys .com/Modelrr/ scales.html
                          > > "Q SCALE
                          > > Accepted Scale: 1:45 or 0.267"=1' 6.77mm=1'
                          > > STANDARD GAUGE Q [0] (same as O std track)
                          > > Practiced Gauge: 1.26" ~32mm
                          > > Theoretical Gauge: 1.256" "
                          > >
                          > > Sure looks like those of us in "0" have known......same track,
                          > > different scale.
                          > > Proto 48 is diferent gauge.
                          > > And, from the NMRA website, they refer to what we called "Q"
                          as
                          > 0
                          > > (17), I guess for 17/64ths:
                          > > "O(17) .266"(6.75mm) 1:45.2"
                          > >
                          > > Gauge is the same, which was great, but the nmra didn't want
                          > > multiple scales on one gauge (so we ended up with PROTO48),
                          and
                          > now
                          > > they have Large Scale with at least 5 scales on one gauge.
                          > >
                          > > Go Figure.
                          > > Dave
                          > >
                          > > > Thing is--both 1/4" amd 17/64" were referred to as O, since
                          > they
                          > > both ran on 1 1/4" gauge track. Sound familiar? "Q" was the
                          1/4"
                          > > scale trains running on 1 3/16" (4'9" gauge) track. Q was
                          always
                          > > 1/4".
                          > > >
                          > > > Lilkewise, all OO is/was built to 4mm scale, but the British
                          > run
                          > > theirs on what is basically HO track. US ran on fairly close
                          to
                          > > correct gauge.
                          > > >
                          > > > gj
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > From: DLeistikow@
                          > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                          > > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:00 PM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Glenn, Andy and list: Not too complicated. Wherever model
                          > trains
                          > > are
                          > > > made, they are usually to a scale. If the loco, cars, etc.,
                          > are
                          > > built
                          > > > to HO scale, they are 3.5 mm scale, regardless of track
                          gauge.
                          > > Same
                          > > > principle applies to any other scale of model railroad
                          rolling
                          > > stock.
                          > > >
                          > > > The gauge of the track it operates on, is not the
                          determining
                          > > factor of
                          > > > what scale the rolling stock is built to. Personally, I
                          prefer
                          > > the
                          > > > differenciating of O scale (1/4") and Q scale (17/64") even
                          > > though they
                          > > > perform on the same track gauge.
                          > > >
                          > > > Don L.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >

                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2037 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/10/2007
                          Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                          > It is funny though, the folks who think HO means something different than
                          > the H0 it was originally.
                          This link (one of many) http://www.marklin.com/about/timeline.html if
                          you look at 1935, it tells you.

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HO_scale tells the same story in the second
                          sentence. Germans call the Halb-Null and if you look at German Fleabay or
                          any German retailer's website, the gauge is shown as H0 rather than HO.

                          Unfortunately the History section of the Wikipedia page mentioned has many
                          errors (his dates are up the creek).

                          Andy Emmerson.
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2038 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/10/2007
                          Subject: Re: Q gauge
                          > Okay, I checked. One old-timer I called said "Q" was the gauge, not the
                          > scale.

                          I checked too. According to the book 'Choice of Scale and Gauges' by Lin
                          Westcott (and I'm not going to argue with him!)...

                          " 1 3/16 inches. This gauge, called Q gauge, is more accurate but very
                          little used. It has an advantage shared by no other new gauge that
                          practically all O gauge 1/4" scale parts may be used without developing new
                          patterns, dies, jigs, etc. "

                          In the table at the back of the book he lists Q gauge as 1.17" with a scale
                          of 1/4" to the foot or 1:48.

                          Minton Cronkhite gets a name check for the reflected light system of
                          illuminating signals from below the baseboard with a tinfoil mirror in the
                          signal head.

                          The book was published in 1936 by the way.

                          Andy Emmerson.
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2039 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/10/2007
                          Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                          I have to say http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/scales.html

                          ...is a joke. It is just riddled with factual errors and spelling mistakes
                          in manufacturers' names. Not worth wasting time on, I'm sorry to say.

                          'Grumpy old man'.
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2040 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/10/2007
                          Subject: Re: Q gauge
                          I shall believe Linn Westcott on this!
                           
                          AE
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:32 AM
                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                          Sorry, Glenn: You're reversing the two scales O and Q; and they both
                          use the same track gauge. Believe what you want and I'll do the same.

                          Don L.

                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2041 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/10/2007
                          Subject: Re: Q gauge
                          All the history has been interesting, but, the topic of this group is vintage >HO<.
                           
                          Thanks
                           
                          Don
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:17 AM
                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Q gauge

                          I shall believe Linn Westcott on this!
                           
                          AE
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:32 AM
                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                          Sorry, Glenn: You're reversing the two scales O and Q; and they both
                          use the same track gauge. Believe what you want and I'll do the same.

                          Don L.

                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2042 From: Paul Date: 1/10/2007
                          Subject: Looking for parts
                          I am looking for a side sill for a Thomas Industries tank kit. I don't
                          know how I did it, but I broke one and the project is on hold until I
                          can locate one. If any members have an incomplete kit, or loose parts,
                          please contact me via email. Thank you.
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2043 From: Glenn Date: 1/10/2007
                          Subject: Re: Q gauge
                          that's the right time-frame.  Cronkhite was responsible for a number of large display layouts at the SF and NY worlds fairs, and the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. Those were probably the major examples of Q Gauge. gj
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:16 AM
                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Q gauge

                          > Okay, I checked. One old-timer I called said "Q" was the gauge, not the
                          > scale.

                          I checked too. According to the book 'Choice of Scale and Gauges' by Lin
                          Westcott (and I'm not going to argue with him!)...

                          " 1 3/16 inches. This gauge, called Q gauge, is more accurate but very
                          little used. It has an advantage shared by no other new gauge that
                          practically all O gauge 1/4" scale parts may be used without developing new
                          patterns, dies, jigs, etc. "

                          In the table at the back of the book he lists Q gauge as 1.17" with a scale
                          of 1/4" to the foot or 1:48.

                          Minton Cronkhite gets a name check for the reflected light system of
                          illuminating signals from below the baseboard with a tinfoil mirror in the
                          signal head.

                          The book was published in 1936 by the way.

                          Andy Emmerson.

                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2044 From: Glenn Date: 1/10/2007
                          Subject: Re: 00 gauge
                          You said it!  quite a jumbled mess.  gj
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:29 AM
                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                          I have to say http://www.spikesys .com/Modelrr/ scales.html

                          ...is a joke. It is just riddled with factual errors and spelling mistakes
                          in manufacturers' names. Not worth wasting time on, I'm sorry to say.

                          'Grumpy old man'.

                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2045 From: Glenn Date: 1/10/2007
                          Subject: Re: Q gauge
                          OK---but where would HO be without "O" to be half of?  :-)
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:49 AM
                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Q gauge

                          All the history has been interesting, but, the topic of this group is vintage >HO<.
                           
                          Thanks
                           
                          Don
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:17 AM
                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Q gauge

                          I shall believe Linn Westcott on this!
                           
                          AE
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:32 AM
                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 00 gauge

                          Sorry, Glenn: You're reversing the two scales O and Q; and they both
                          use the same track gauge. Believe what you want and I'll do the same.

                          Don L.

                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2046 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/11/2007
                          Subject: Newest additions
                          Attachments :
                            Two more vintage pieces running, 1 again, 1 for the first time in her 50
                            year life. The Deep Rock tank is an original late 40's Mantua, still
                            running on her original trucks, only needed cleaning and Kadees installed,
                            the NH Box was an unbuilt Binkley kit I found on eBay a couple weeks ago.

                            The Mantua tank actually compares favorably with my Tichy/Gould USRA tank
                            that I just happened to letter in the same scheme.

                            Don

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                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2047 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/11/2007
                            Subject: Re: Newest additions
                            Hey Don,

                            Thanks for the photo's. Great looking cars both.

                            I have a question, and I am not trying to be a smart a**.....

                            Is it an optical illusion or is the Deep Rock Dome actually tilted
                            to the left in the the picture? Was this the way these cars were
                            actually built? If not, I apologize up front. I wasn't trying to be
                            critical, just curious.

                            Loren

                            _________________________________________________________________
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                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2048 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/12/2007
                            Subject: Re: Newest additions
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:33 PM
                            Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Newest additions


                            > Hey Don,
                            >
                            > Thanks for the photo's. Great looking cars both.
                            >
                            > I have a question, and I am not trying to be a smart a**.....
                            >
                            > Is it an optical illusion or is the Deep Rock Dome actually tilted
                            > to the left in the the picture? Was this the way these cars were
                            > actually built? If not, I apologize up front. I wasn't trying to be
                            > critical, just curious.
                            >
                            > Loren

                            Ever since I got a new computer, I've been waiting for a friend to salvage
                            Adobe Photo Deluxe off my old hard drive since they don't make it anymore.
                            Un the meantime I've been using Irfanview, and it seems every time I crop
                            and resize a photo so I can post it, it becomes slightly distorted.

                            Don

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                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2049 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/12/2007
                            Subject: Re: Newest additions
                            Hi Don,

                            Try these free programs and see if one of them works for you.....

                            http://www.freebyte.com/graphicprograms/#imageconverters

                            There's always the freeware PhotoShop clone, GIMP...

                            http://www.gimp.org/windows/

                            Or this freebie ..

                            http://biphome.spray.se/baxtrom/imageenhance.htm

                            Best to ya'
                            Mike Bauers
                            Milwaukee Wi, USA


                            On Jan 12, 2007, at 2:44 AM, Don Dellmann wrote:

                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows"
                            >
                            >> Hey Don,
                            >>
                            >> Thanks for the photo's. Great looking cars both.
                            >>
                            >> I have a question, and I am not trying to be a smart a**.....
                            >>
                            >> Is it an optical illusion or is the Deep Rock Dome actually tilted
                            >> to the left in the the picture? Was this the way these cars were
                            >> actually built? If not, I apologize up front. I wasn't trying to be
                            >> critical, just curious.
                            >>
                            >> Loren
                            >
                            > Ever since I got a new computer, I've been waiting for a friend to
                            > salvage
                            > Adobe Photo Deluxe off my old hard drive since they don't make it
                            > anymore.
                            > Un the meantime I've been using Irfanview, and it seems every time
                            > I crop
                            > and resize a photo so I can post it, it becomes slightly distorted.
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2050 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/12/2007
                            Subject: Re: Newest additions
                            Seems to me I tried gimp.

                            I really want photo deluxe back (I've got it on a CD now, but it's aprt of a
                            system Brenda put together to give me a virtual hard drive to run my old
                            programs that CP doesn't like, and she has to install it for me.)

                            Don

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                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...>
                            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 6:32 AM
                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Newest additions


                            > Hi Don,
                            >
                            > Try these free programs and see if one of them works for you.....
                            >
                            > http://www.freebyte.com/graphicprograms/#imageconverters
                            >
                            > There's always the freeware PhotoShop clone, GIMP...
                            >
                            > http://www.gimp.org/windows/
                            >
                            > Or this freebie ..
                            >
                            > http://biphome.spray.se/baxtrom/imageenhance.htm
                            >
                            > Best to ya'
                            > Mike Bauers
                            > Milwaukee Wi, USA
                            >
                            >
                            > On Jan 12, 2007, at 2:44 AM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                            >
                            >>
                            >> ----- Original Message -----
                            >> From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows"
                            >>
                            >>> Hey Don,
                            >>>
                            >>> Thanks for the photo's. Great looking cars both.
                            >>>
                            >>> I have a question, and I am not trying to be a smart a**.....
                            >>>
                            >>> Is it an optical illusion or is the Deep Rock Dome actually tilted
                            >>> to the left in the the picture? Was this the way these cars were
                            >>> actually built? If not, I apologize up front. I wasn't trying to be
                            >>> critical, just curious.
                            >>>
                            >>> Loren
                            >>
                            >> Ever since I got a new computer, I've been waiting for a friend to
                            >> salvage
                            >> Adobe Photo Deluxe off my old hard drive since they don't make it
                            >> anymore.
                            >> Un the meantime I've been using Irfanview, and it seems every time
                            >> I crop
                            >> and resize a photo so I can post it, it becomes slightly distorted.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2051 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/14/2007
                            Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
                            Enter our new cover photo contest now.
                            Take your favorite picture featuring Vintage HO
                            equipment (pre-1965 or so), and upload it to
                            the "a contest" photo album before January 31,
                            2006. Photos may feature locomotives, rolling
                            stock, structures or scenery, but must be
                            predominantly "vintage". Please only one entry
                            per member.

                            For the month of February, we will have an open poll
                            for all the members to vote on the photo of their
                            choice. The winner will be the new cover photo for
                            at least till mid summer.
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2052 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/16/2007
                            Subject: Christmas presents.
                            Attachments :
                              Well, my Christmas presents to myself came today.

                              Not all that vintage as far as the group is concerned, because it dates from
                              the late 60's, early 70's, but I've wanted one of these puppies ever since
                              Red Ball first imported them.

                              To make it even nicer, the eBay seller I got it from has just joined our
                              group! (Thanks Sean)

                              Don

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                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2053 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/16/2007
                              Subject: Belonging
                              Attachments :
                                You know, looking at the message threads over the last month or so, I've been starting to feel like an outcast in my own group.
                                 
                                 
                                There was just something that everybody had, and everybody was talking about that I was just left out.
                                 
                                I was really feeling neglected.
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                Well NO MORE!
                                 
                                I FINALLY am a member of the group!  I finally belong!
                                 
                                As of 1:30 this afternoon when I went to the post office, I am now one of you, no longer an outcast!
                                 
                                I am now the PROUD owner of.................
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN!  :-)
                                 
                                Don
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2054 From: John Barlow Date: 1/16/2007
                                Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...
                                Don.....
                                 
                                If it runs...I mean...if you restore it to running order...do you issue yourself a certificate or do you have to commit hari-kari in Shinto style? I'm not sure of the rules here. I have a hunch that mere ownership is not enough...it is the first spiritual step toward enlightenment. I suspect obligatory chants must be made as two candles burn with incense at positions on either end of your acquisition. Prayers will be rendered and must. You have begun the journey, Grasshopper!  Live the journey that has only begun.
                                 
                                John

                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                You know, looking at the message threads over the last month or so, I've been starting to feel like an outcast in my own group.
                                 
                                 
                                There was just something that everybody had, and everybody was talking about that I was just left out.
                                 
                                I was really feeling neglected.
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                Well NO MORE!
                                 
                                I FINALLY am a member of the group!  I finally belong!
                                 
                                As of 1:30 this afternoon when I went to the post office, I am now one of you, no longer an outcast!
                                 
                                I am now the PROUD owner of.......... .......
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN!  :-)
                                 
                                Don
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 


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                                Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2055 From: sean naylor Date: 1/16/2007
                                Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
                                Attachments :
                                  Hello Don,
                                  That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with your address on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!
                                   
                                  As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course...
                                  Later!
                                  Sean


                                  Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                  Well, my Christmas presents to myself came today.

                                  Not all that vintage as far as the group is concerned, because it dates from
                                  the late 60's, early 70's, but I've wanted one of these puppies ever since
                                  Red Ball first imported them.

                                  To make it even nicer, the eBay seller I got it from has just joined our
                                  group! (Thanks Sean)

                                  Don

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                                  Be a PS3 game guru.
                                  Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2056 From: oahurailway Date: 1/16/2007
                                  Subject: Re: Belonging
                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I am now the PROUD owner of.................
                                  >
                                  > A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-)
                                  >
                                  > Don
                                  >
                                  Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen that
                                  fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit, in that
                                  eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew can
                                  tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken
                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2057 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/16/2007
                                  Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...
                                  >----- Original Message -----
                                  >From: John Barlow
                                  >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:59 PM
                                  >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Beyond Belonging...

                                  >Don.....

                                  >If it runs...I mean...if you restore it to running order...do you issue
                                  >yourself a certificate or do you have to commit hari-kari in Shinto style?
                                  >I'm not sure of the rules >here. I have a hunch that mere ownership is not
                                  >enough...it is the first spiritual step toward enlightenment. I suspect
                                  >obligatory chants must be made as two candles >burn with incense at
                                  >positions on either end of your acquisition. Prayers will be rendered and
                                  >must. You have begun the journey, Grasshopper! Live the journey >that has
                                  >only begun.

                                  >John

                                  (text bobbitted)

                                  I had no idea it was going to be such a religious experience.

                                  Perhaps we can start a cult?

                                  In all seriousness, it's not that far from running. Electrically, the motor
                                  spins, and the wheels/valve gear etc, while stiff, do move without any
                                  obvious binds, I suspect it's not much more than a gear misalignment inside
                                  (The motor drive worm doesn't engage the axle gear (and the shin bone isn't
                                  connected to the thigh bone?)\\

                                  Don

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                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2058 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/16/2007
                                  Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
                                  >----- Original Message -----
                                  >From: sean naylor
                                  >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM
                                  >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.


                                  >Hello Don,
                                  >That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are
                                  >happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with
                                  >your address >on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the
                                  >factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!

                                  >As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands!
                                  >Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course...
                                  >Later!
                                  >Sean

                                  Gee, isn't that a coincidence <G>.

                                  I am pleased with the Erie. I do have to open it up, it sounds and acts
                                  like one of the couplings may be slipping a little on the shaft, but that's
                                  nothing a bit of locktite won't fix. It runs better than a lot of brass of
                                  that vintage did when new.

                                  The only thing I haven't quite decided yet is how to paint it. I'm not sure
                                  if I want to do it in my "Milwaukee Northern" or I'm thinking of coming up
                                  with an imaginary blue and silver scheme to pull my Varney streamliners.

                                  As far as the dockside, I've waited 50 years to get one! (Tell you what,
                                  I'll name you in my will).

                                  Yours looks interesting, except isn't that actually a Mantua Booster II? Or
                                  did Varney have a different body die in later years? (On The Varney the
                                  tanks extend flush with the boiler front.

                                  In the same box with the Varney is an earlier Mantua that's interesting.
                                  It's the exact same body shell as the little six, but only an 0-4-0, which
                                  makes it look sort of "tail heavy".

                                  BTW, welcome to the group. We've got a great bunch of people here, and
                                  sometimes the knowledge people share of these old pieces totally amazes me.

                                  Don

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                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2059 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                  Subject: Re: Belonging
                                  Attachments :
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...>
                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM
                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> I am now the PROUD owner of.................
                                    >>
                                    >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-)
                                    >>
                                    >> Don
                                    >>
                                    > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen that
                                    > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit, in that
                                    > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew can
                                    > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken

                                    The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like it's just
                                    shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the drive
                                    gear. Thank goodness for my 1948 catalog that shows me exactly which two
                                    screws to take out to open her up. (As far as vintage goes, what I can see
                                    of the motor etc. inside, it seems to match that 1948 drawing exactly,
                                    except for the aftermarket valve gear, which appears to be either Central
                                    Valley of Kemtron, was there a difference in them?)

                                    If you saw the lot of 18 vintage cars that came with her on eBay, it's an
                                    interesting mix. The three quad hoppers turned out to be wood, the
                                    Virginaian twin hopper is cardstock, I'm guessing the panel side hopper is
                                    Red Ball (it seems too thick to be the Varney which was described as
                                    "aluminum stampings, thin enough to cut easily with scissors" They appear
                                    to be relatively thin castings. The two reefers are early mantua, there's
                                    an Erie
                                    gondola identical to the T&P one I have that we were talking about last
                                    week, as well as another tank car like the one I just got, a couple Silver
                                    Streak box cars, two Mantua and one Ulrich flat, another embossed
                                    cardstock Comet auto car and an Ulrich compositegondola.
                                    What was frustrating was there's one original Mantua box car
                                    there, of all the different lettering schemes they made, wouldn't you know
                                    it's the same one as the only Mautua box already in my collection! I
                                    haven't decided yet if I should renumber it or trade it.

                                    Also, when I unpacked the box, there was a Varney cardstock Santa Fe style
                                    caboose and a Mantua 0-4-0-t (that I mentioned in another post) that weren't
                                    listed in the original auction!

                                    Watch for individual pictures I'll post as I get each peice back in
                                    operation.

                                    Don

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                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2060 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                    Subject: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
                                    P.S., Thanks again for the extra parts, it wasn't necessary, but I can use all of them except the winterization windows, another friend from the list here was over this evening, saw the bag and grabbed them so fast it'd make your head spin.  So, everything was greatly appreciated and will be used.
                                     
                                    Don
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.

                                    Hello Don,
                                    That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with your address on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!
                                     
                                    As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course...
                                    Later!
                                    Sean


                                     
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2061 From: oahurailway Date: 1/17/2007
                                    Subject: Re: Belonging
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...>
                                    > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM
                                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >> I am now the PROUD owner of.................
                                    > >>
                                    > >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-)
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Don
                                    > >>
                                    > > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen
                                    that
                                    > > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit,
                                    in that
                                    > > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew
                                    can
                                    > > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken
                                    >
                                    > The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like
                                    it's just
                                    > shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the
                                    drive
                                    > gear.

                                    Don, I'm sure you've seen that there are four screws on the bottom
                                    side of that "Li'l Joe's" frame. First one foreward is the long screw
                                    that attaches the shell to the frame. The very next screw (just
                                    behind the drive gear) is the one that adjusts the mesh of the motor
                                    worm gear with the driver gear. Backing it out just a tad will mesh
                                    the worm with the gear, & lookout rear roundhouse wall! You can also
                                    check your valve gear with the pics on my album "1941 Varney 6V
                                    Dockside" (Central Valley, Varney #2641, or Bowser 3-217) to see
                                    which one it is. The CV kit's gear hanger fits between the boiler &
                                    the cylinder block, & is split there, so if you take the shell off
                                    hold a finger on it so everything stays together. I usually leave the
                                    long screw in the frame & thread a nut down to hold the two sides of
                                    the gear hanger together. Ya' got some cool vintage stuff! Wanna'
                                    have a "Dockside" drag sometime?! Ken
                                    >
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2062 From: sean naylor Date: 1/17/2007
                                    Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
                                    Hello Don,
                                    Glad to be of service... If you or your friend need any more... I have a couple hundred of the overland pieces I will never use... Never really counted them actually... Later! Sean

                                    Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                    P.S., Thanks again for the extra parts, it wasn't necessary, but I can use all of them except the winterization windows, another friend from the list here was over this evening, saw the bag and grabbed them so fast it'd make your head spin.  So, everything was greatly appreciated and will be used.
                                     
                                    Don
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.

                                    Hello Don,
                                    That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with your address on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!
                                     
                                    As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course...
                                    Later!
                                    Sean


                                     


                                    8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                                    with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2063 From: sean naylor Date: 1/17/2007
                                    Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
                                    Hello Don,
                                    Sorry about the slipping.. I try to catch all those things before they go.... They all were a fine running bunch though... I decided to list today the last piece from that lot  ... an RDC 2.
                                     
                                    I have noticed that it is an interesting bunch.. The religious experience was quite funny actually... Can we extent it beyond Varney though..... I have a couple hundred engines and I an sure I have many makes and models that do not run and need to be rizen from the dead... It has been a little longer than three days for some of them... so I am not quite sure what to do in their case...
                                    Later!
                                    Sean

                                    Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                    >----- Original Message -----
                                    >From: sean naylor
                                    >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                    >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM
                                    >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.

                                    >Hello Don,
                                    >That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are
                                    >happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with
                                    >your address >on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the
                                    >factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!

                                    >As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands!
                                    >Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course...
                                    >Later!
                                    >Sean

                                    Gee, isn't that a coincidence <G>.

                                    I am pleased with the Erie. I do have to open it up, it sounds and acts
                                    like one of the couplings may be slipping a little on the shaft, but that's
                                    nothing a bit of locktite won't fix. It runs better than a lot of brass of
                                    that vintage did when new.

                                    The only thing I haven't quite decided yet is how to paint it. I'm not sure
                                    if I want to do it in my "Milwaukee Northern" or I'm thinking of coming up
                                    with an imaginary blue and silver scheme to pull my Varney streamliners.

                                    As far as the dockside, I've waited 50 years to get one! (Tell you what,
                                    I'll name you in my will).

                                    Yours looks interesting, except isn't that actually a Mantua Booster II? Or
                                    did Varney have a different body die in later years? (On The Varney the
                                    tanks extend flush with the boiler front.

                                    In the same box with the Varney is an earlier Mantua that's interesting.
                                    It's the exact same body shell as the little six, but only an 0-4-0, which
                                    makes it look sort of "tail heavy".

                                    BTW, welcome to the group. We've got a great bunch of people here, and
                                    sometimes the knowledge people share of these old pieces totally amazes me.

                                    Don

                                    don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                    http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                    Owner-Moderator
                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                    Co-moderator
                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY



                                    Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2064 From: sean naylor Date: 1/17/2007
                                    Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
                                    ps.. Don,
                                    The pic I posted is a Varney... NOT a Mantua... Look closer at the cab... it is tge dead ringer for varney... The previous owner ground off part of the saddle tank.. I cleaned up the filing job and then detailed it ...
                                    Later...
                                     
                                    pps.. Let me know if you ever want to trade that lil jo for a small stack of brass detail pieces... or anything else for that matter...
                                     
                                    Sean

                                    Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                    P.S., Thanks again for the extra parts, it wasn't necessary, but I can use all of them except the winterization windows, another friend from the list here was over this evening, saw the bag and grabbed them so fast it'd make your head spin.  So, everything was greatly appreciated and will be used.
                                     
                                    Don
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.

                                    Hello Don,
                                    That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with your address on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!
                                     
                                    As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course...
                                    Later!
                                    Sean


                                     


                                    Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                                    in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2065 From: John Hagen Date: 1/17/2007
                                    Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)

                                    Yeah, Sean, thanks a bunch for those windows. The only Wisconsin railroad that mattered (Green Bay and Western) using the only diesels that mattered (ALCO’s) used them 3 pane winterization windows on the engineers side. Don showed me the detail parts packs and the windows were on top. He’s right, they were in my pocket in approx. 1.5 sec. (would have been faster but I’m getting old in my slow age).

                                     

                                    Thanks again, Sean.

                                     

                                    John Hagen

                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2066 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/17/2007
                                    Subject: Re: Belonging
                                    Attachments :
                                      Don,
                                      The Joes are one of my favorites.  We refurbish a lot of them.
                                      I have all of the parts for them here if you end up needing something. 
                                       
                                      I've attached a pic of one that we did a few months ago.  This little guy was a basket case when we started it.
                                       
                                      Dan B. 
                                       
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:15 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@verizon. net>
                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                      Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM
                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging

                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >> I am now the PROUD owner of.......... .......
                                      >>
                                      >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-)
                                      >>
                                      >> Don
                                      >>
                                      > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen that
                                      > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit, in that
                                      > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew can
                                      > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken

                                      The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like it's just
                                      shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the drive
                                      gear. Thank goodness for my 1948 catalog that shows me exactly which two
                                      screws to take out to open her up. (As far as vintage goes, what I can see
                                      of the motor etc. inside, it seems to match that 1948 drawing exactly,
                                      except for the aftermarket valve gear, which appears to be either Central
                                      Valley of Kemtron, was there a difference in them?)

                                      If you saw the lot of 18 vintage cars that came with her on eBay, it's an
                                      interesting mix. The three quad hoppers turned out to be wood, the
                                      Virginaian twin hopper is cardstock, I'm guessing the panel side hopper is
                                      Red Ball (it seems too thick to be the Varney which was described as
                                      "aluminum stampings, thin enough to cut easily with scissors" They appear
                                      to be relatively thin castings. The two reefers are early mantua, there's
                                      an Erie
                                      gondola identical to the T&P one I have that we were talking about last
                                      week, as well as another tank car like the one I just got, a couple Silver
                                      Streak box cars, two Mantua and one Ulrich flat, another embossed
                                      cardstock Comet auto car and an Ulrich compositegondola.
                                      What was frustrating was there's one original Mantua box car
                                      there, of all the different lettering schemes they made, wouldn't you know
                                      it's the same one as the only Mautua box already in my collection! I
                                      haven't decided yet if I should renumber it or trade it.

                                      Also, when I unpacked the box, there was a Varney cardstock Santa Fe style
                                      caboose and a Mantua 0-4-0-t (that I mentioned in another post) that weren't
                                      listed in the original auction!

                                      Watch for individual pictures I'll post as I get each peice back in
                                      operation.

                                      Don

                                      don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                      http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                      Owner-Moderator
                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                      http://groups. yahoocom/ group/vintageHO
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                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2067 From: sean naylor Date: 1/17/2007
                                      Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
                                      Need More? I have a bunch... I have been considering listing some iof my brass details... I know Overland does pretty well. I have pobably 1000 or more diesel detials I will never use... I purchased an entire collection of them from a brass builder/detailer of northern-western railroads a couple of years ago... I wanted the steam details but I could not pass up the price for them all!  Typical of me....I hate listing details, so I like to trade them... I was introduced to this group through a friend I have been trading with lately (and frequiently outbidding - until just this past week when he outbid me on the central valley valve gear kit - aka.. Tom Hare) - We managed to hammer out a trade deal so I will get it anyway...
                                      Let me know... I will never use the diesel details... I like steam... with some diesel...
                                      Sean

                                      John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                      Yeah, Sean, thanks a bunch for those windows. The only Wisconsin railroad that mattered (Green Bay and Western) using the only diesels that mattered (ALCO’s) used them 3 pane winterization windows on the engineers side. Don showed me the detail parts packs and the windows were on top. He’s right, they were in my pocket in approx. 1.5 sec. (would have been faster but I’m getting old in my slow age).
                                      Thanks again, Sean.
                                      John Hagen


                                      Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                                      in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2068 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                      Subject: Re: Belonging
                                      Attachments :
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:23 AM
                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> ----- Original Message -----
                                        >> From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...>
                                        >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        >> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM
                                        >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@>
                                        >> > wrote:
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> I am now the PROUD owner of.................
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-)
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Don
                                        >> >>
                                        >> > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen
                                        > that
                                        >> > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit,
                                        > in that
                                        >> > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew
                                        > can
                                        >> > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken
                                        >>
                                        >> The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like
                                        > it's just
                                        >> shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the
                                        > drive
                                        >> gear.
                                        >
                                        > Don, I'm sure you've seen that there are four screws on the bottom
                                        > side of that "Li'l Joe's" frame. First one foreward is the long screw
                                        > that attaches the shell to the frame. The very next screw (just
                                        > behind the drive gear) is the one that adjusts the mesh of the motor
                                        > worm gear with the driver gear. Backing it out just a tad will mesh
                                        > the worm with the gear, & lookout rear roundhouse wall! You can also
                                        > check your valve gear with the pics on my album "1941 Varney 6V
                                        > Dockside" (Central Valley, Varney #2641, or Bowser 3-217) to see
                                        > which one it is. The CV kit's gear hanger fits between the boiler &
                                        > the cylinder block, & is split there, so if you take the shell off
                                        > hold a finger on it so everything stays together. I usually leave the
                                        > long screw in the frame & thread a nut down to hold the two sides of
                                        > the gear hanger together. Ya' got some cool vintage stuff! Wanna'
                                        > have a "Dockside" drag sometime?! Ken
                                        >>

                                        Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central Valley.

                                        There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches this
                                        drawing exactly

                                        Don

                                        don.dellmann@...
                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        Owner-Moderator
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
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                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2069 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
                                        To be honest with you, I didn't even notice it at first, you have nothing to be sorry about.  It's such a minor problem and such an easy fix.
                                         
                                        Now had the model been one of the new Chinese plastic gems, it would be unrepairable and you'd have a $150 static display.  That's why I love the vintage so much.
                                         
                                        Don
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 5:15 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.

                                        Hello Don,
                                        Sorry about the slipping.. I try to catch all those things before they go.... They all were a fine running bunch though... I decided to list today the last piece from that lot  ... an RDC 2.
                                         
                                        I have noticed that it is an interesting bunch.. The religious experience was quite funny actually... Can we extent it beyond Varney though..... I have a couple hundred engines and I an sure I have many makes and models that do not run and need to be rizen from the dead... It has been a little longer than three days for some of them... so I am not quite sure what to do in their case...
                                        Later!
                                        Sean

                                        Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                        >----- Original Message -----
                                        >From: sean naylor
                                        >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                        >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM
                                        >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.

                                        >Hello Don,
                                        >That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are
                                        >happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with
                                        >your address >on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the
                                        >factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!

                                        >As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands!
                                        >Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course...
                                        >Later!
                                        >Sean

                                        Gee, isn't that a coincidence <G>.

                                        I am pleased with the Erie. I do have to open it up, it sounds and acts
                                        like one of the couplings may be slipping a little on the shaft, but that's
                                        nothing a bit of locktite won't fix. It runs better than a lot of brass of
                                        that vintage did when new.

                                        The only thing I haven't quite decided yet is how to paint it. I'm not sure
                                        if I want to do it in my "Milwaukee Northern" or I'm thinking of coming up
                                        with an imaginary blue and silver scheme to pull my Varney streamliners.

                                        As far as the dockside, I've waited 50 years to get one! (Tell you what,
                                        I'll name you in my will).

                                        Yours looks interesting, except isn't that actually a Mantua Booster II? Or
                                        did Varney have a different body die in later years? (On The Varney the
                                        tanks extend flush with the boiler front.

                                        In the same box with the Varney is an earlier Mantua that's interesting.
                                        It's the exact same body shell as the little six, but only an 0-4-0, which
                                        makes it look sort of "tail heavy".

                                        BTW, welcome to the group. We've got a great bunch of people here, and
                                        sometimes the knowledge people share of these old pieces totally amazes me.

                                        Don

                                        don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                        http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                        Owner-Moderator
                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
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                                        Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2070 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Christmas presents.
                                        P.S., regarding your other models, ask away, that's why we're here.
                                         
                                        Don
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 5:15 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.

                                        Hello Don,
                                        Sorry about the slipping.. I try to catch all those things before they go.... They all were a fine running bunch though... I decided to list today the last piece from that lot  ... an RDC 2.
                                         
                                        I have noticed that it is an interesting bunch.. The religious experience was quite funny actually... Can we extent it beyond Varney though..... I have a couple hundred engines and I an sure I have many makes and models that do not run and need to be rizen from the dead... It has been a little longer than three days for some of them... so I am not quite sure what to do in their case...
                                        Later!
                                        Sean

                                        Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                        >----- Original Message -----
                                        >From: sean naylor
                                        >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                        >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM
                                        >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.

                                        >Hello Don,
                                        >That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are
                                        >happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with
                                        >your address >on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the
                                        >factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!

                                        >As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands!
                                        >Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course...
                                        >Later!
                                        >Sean

                                        Gee, isn't that a coincidence <G>.

                                        I am pleased with the Erie. I do have to open it up, it sounds and acts
                                        like one of the couplings may be slipping a little on the shaft, but that's
                                        nothing a bit of locktite won't fix. It runs better than a lot of brass of
                                        that vintage did when new.

                                        The only thing I haven't quite decided yet is how to paint it. I'm not sure
                                        if I want to do it in my "Milwaukee Northern" or I'm thinking of coming up
                                        with an imaginary blue and silver scheme to pull my Varney streamliners.

                                        As far as the dockside, I've waited 50 years to get one! (Tell you what,
                                        I'll name you in my will).

                                        Yours looks interesting, except isn't that actually a Mantua Booster II? Or
                                        did Varney have a different body die in later years? (On The Varney the
                                        tanks extend flush with the boiler front.

                                        In the same box with the Varney is an earlier Mantua that's interesting.
                                        It's the exact same body shell as the little six, but only an 0-4-0, which
                                        makes it look sort of "tail heavy".

                                        BTW, welcome to the group. We've got a great bunch of people here, and
                                        sometimes the knowledge people share of these old pieces totally amazes me.

                                        Don

                                        don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                        http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                        Owner-Moderator
                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
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                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY



                                        Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2071 From: oahurailway Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central
                                        Valley.
                                        >
                                        > There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches
                                        this
                                        > drawing exactly
                                        >
                                        > Don
                                        >
                                        > don.dellmann@...
                                        > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        > Owner-Moderator
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        > Co-moderator
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        >
                                        Don, your "Li'l Joe" might be the pre-war 6V version. All my 1941-
                                        42 ones only have three screws on the bottom too. If ya' get a
                                        chance, post som pix of it. Ken
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2072 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        Thanks for the useful diagram, Don.
                                         
                                        I have one of the 1947-era examples of this model and wonder if you or the group can answer three questions about this loco:
                                         
                                        1. Is there any means provided for centring the couplers? They appear to flap in the wind somewhat.
                                         
                                        2. Was the loco factory-fitted with jewels (brilliants) in the headlamps or were these an 'aftermarket' add-on?
                                         
                                        3. I see the body casting has holes or dimples for handrail posts. Did Varney ever supply a 'super detail' version of the loco with real handrails or was it intended that customers fitted the handrails if they felt it important enough?
                                         
                                        Thanks!
                                         
                                        By the way, I'd very much like to 'backdate' my loco to 6V operation so if anyone has a spare Pittman 6V motor for sale, please get in touch! Generous price paid.
                                         
                                        Best regards,
                                        Andy Emmerson. 
                                         
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:02 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@verizon. net>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:23 AM
                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging

                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> ----- Original Message -----
                                        >> From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@. ..>
                                        >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                        >> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM
                                        >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ >
                                        >> > wrote:
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> I am now the PROUD owner of.......... .......
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-)
                                        >> >>
                                        >> >> Don
                                        >> >>
                                        >> > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen
                                        > that
                                        >> > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear kit,
                                        > in that
                                        >> > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble crew
                                        > can
                                        >> > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken
                                        >>
                                        >> The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like
                                        > it's just
                                        >> shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage the
                                        > drive
                                        >> gear.
                                        >
                                        > Don, I'm sure you've seen that there are four screws on the bottom
                                        > side of that "Li'l Joe's" frame. First one foreward is the long screw
                                        > that attaches the shell to the frame. The very next screw (just
                                        > behind the drive gear) is the one that adjusts the mesh of the motor
                                        > worm gear with the driver gear. Backing it out just a tad will mesh
                                        > the worm with the gear, & lookout rear roundhouse wall! You can also
                                        > check your valve gear with the pics on my album "1941 Varney 6V
                                        > Dockside" (Central Valley, Varney #2641, or Bowser 3-217) to see
                                        > which one it is. The CV kit's gear hanger fits between the boiler &
                                        > the cylinder block, & is split there, so if you take the shell off
                                        > hold a finger on it so everything stays together. I usually leave the
                                        > long screw in the frame & thread a nut down to hold the two sides of
                                        > the gear hanger together. Ya' got some cool vintage stuff! Wanna'
                                        > have a "Dockside" drag sometime?! Ken
                                        >>

                                        Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central Valley.

                                        There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches this
                                        drawing exactly

                                        Don

                                        don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                        http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                        Owner-Moderator
                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                        Co-moderator
                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2073 From: JGE Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Mantua
                                        Hi:

                                        Having just joined. I wondered about Athearn Hustlers and Mantua Stuff? I
                                        own a Hoobytown RS-3 Metal, a Revell Deluxe F-7, a Penn Line GG-1 & Cars
                                        and 4 Hustlers. be nice to see this shift into the next time period to
                                        include Hi-F Athearns some early AHM...

                                        Thanks,
                                        Gareth

                                        People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. Orwell

                                        Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down.

                                        __________________________________________________
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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2074 From: rcjge Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Has anyone been thru this?
                                        Hi:

                                        Might want to look for a guy named Tony Cool here:

                                        http://65.174.230.77/tyco/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=20

                                        He should be able to help.

                                        Cheers,
                                        Gareth



                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "kilbeggan68" <wedfrentz@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I am trying to rebuild some MU-2 power trucks.I have source for new
                                        > gears.Tha almighty question is how do I determine what is a lefthand
                                        > worm from a righthand worm? Do you look at it from output end or the
                                        > driven end? Any info will be appreciated.
                                        >
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2075 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        I have two Lil' Joes, one 1941, the other purchased new by my Uncle
                                        in 48 or 49.
                                        The newer one had the warped frame syndrome, which I straightened.
                                        I was not happy with the motor/worm adjustment screw.
                                        Something was not quite right.
                                        It was hitting the brass end plate of the motor, which kept kicking
                                        the motor to the side, plus is stuck out a little too far.

                                        We probably over-tightened the back hold-down screw too much to
                                        compensate.
                                        So, I pulled #2 and #3 screws out and swapped them.
                                        Screw height was now about perfect, the adjustment screw hits the
                                        polepiece, adjustment holds without excessive #4 screw tension.
                                        Did the same to the '41 when I put the new lower cover plate on.

                                        All those years messing with it, and now it holds just fine.

                                        Maybe mine are just odd-balls, who knows.

                                        Dave

                                        >
                                        > Don,
                                        > The Joes are one of my favorites. We refurbish a lot of them.
                                        > I have all of the parts for them here if you end up needing
                                        something.
                                        >
                                        > I've attached a pic of one that we did a few months ago. This
                                        little guy was a basket case when we started it.
                                        >
                                        > Dan B.
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: Don Dellmann
                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:15 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...>
                                        > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:23 PM
                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging
                                        >
                                        > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann"
                                        <don.dellmann@>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > >>
                                        > >> I am now the PROUD owner of.................
                                        > >>
                                        > >> A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN! :-)
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Don
                                        > >>
                                        > > Congratulations Don! Ya' snagged one for yourself! We've seen
                                        that
                                        > > fine little "Dockside" with that great original valve gear
                                        kit, in that
                                        > > eBay "antique" lot! The Foothill Shortline roundhouse rabble
                                        crew can
                                        > > tell ya' how to make 'er live again! Ken
                                        >
                                        > The motor actually does spin under it's own power, it looks like
                                        it's just
                                        > shifted enough on it's mountings inside that it doesn't engage
                                        the drive
                                        > gear. Thank goodness for my 1948 catalog that shows me exactly
                                        which two
                                        > screws to take out to open her up. (As far as vintage goes, what
                                        I can see
                                        > of the motor etc. inside, it seems to match that 1948 drawing
                                        exactly,
                                        > except for the aftermarket valve gear, which appears to be
                                        either Central
                                        > Valley of Kemtron, was there a difference in them?)
                                        >
                                        > If you saw the lot of 18 vintage cars that came with her on
                                        eBay, it's an
                                        > interesting mix. The three quad hoppers turned out to be wood,
                                        the
                                        > Virginaian twin hopper is cardstock, I'm guessing the panel side
                                        hopper is
                                        > Red Ball (it seems too thick to be the Varney which was
                                        described as
                                        > "aluminum stampings, thin enough to cut easily with scissors"
                                        They appear
                                        > to be relatively thin castings. The two reefers are early
                                        mantua, there's
                                        > an Erie
                                        > gondola identical to the T&P one I have that we were talking
                                        about last
                                        > week, as well as another tank car like the one I just got, a
                                        couple Silver
                                        > Streak box cars, two Mantua and one Ulrich flat, another embossed
                                        > cardstock Comet auto car and an Ulrich compositegondola.
                                        > What was frustrating was there's one original Mantua box car
                                        > there, of all the different lettering schemes they made,
                                        wouldn't you know
                                        > it's the same one as the only Mautua box already in my
                                        collection! I
                                        > haven't decided yet if I should renumber it or trade it.
                                        >
                                        > Also, when I unpacked the box, there was a Varney cardstock
                                        Santa Fe style
                                        > caboose and a Mantua 0-4-0-t (that I mentioned in another post)
                                        that weren't
                                        > listed in the original auction!
                                        >
                                        > Watch for individual pictures I'll post as I get each peice back
                                        in
                                        > operation.
                                        >
                                        > Don
                                        >
                                        > don.dellmann@...
                                        > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        > Owner-Moderator
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        > Co-moderator
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        >
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2076 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        Pickups?
                                        41's had one wiper behind the RR driver, not a pair on LH side.
                                        Insulator fit between long lower angled cover and frame.

                                        Dave


                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann"
                                        <don.dellmann@>
                                        > > > wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central
                                        > Valley.
                                        > >
                                        > > There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches
                                        > this
                                        > > drawing exactly
                                        > >
                                        > > Don
                                        > >
                                        > > don.dellmann@
                                        > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        > > Owner-Moderator
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        > > Co-moderator
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        > >
                                        > Don, your "Li'l Joe" might be the pre-war 6V version. All my
                                        1941-
                                        > 42 ones only have three screws on the bottom too. If ya' get a
                                        > chance, post som pix of it. Ken
                                        >
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2077 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Mantua
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "JGE" <rcjge@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:18 PM
                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua


                                        > Hi:
                                        >
                                        > Having just joined. I wondered about Athearn Hustlers and Mantua Stuff? I
                                        > own a Hoobytown RS-3 Metal, a Revell Deluxe F-7, a Penn Line GG-1 & Cars
                                        > and 4 Hustlers. be nice to see this shift into the next time period to
                                        > include Hi-F Athearns some early AHM...
                                        >
                                        > Thanks,
                                        > Gareth

                                        Actually, everything you mention already IS in the time period we cover. I
                                        say the focus is early 60's and before, but that's a guideline. What's off
                                        topic is things like Sarah Lee era Tyco, Life Like, Bachmann, DCC, anything
                                        made in China etc. etc.

                                        Don

                                        don.dellmann@...
                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        Owner-Moderator
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        Co-moderator
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2078 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)
                                        That makes sense.  It was the shorter tanks that threw me.
                                         
                                        Don
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:24 AM
                                        Subject: Re: PING Sean (was Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.)

                                        ps.. Don,
                                        The pic I posted is a Varney... NOT a Mantua... Look closer at the cab... it is tge dead ringer for varney... The previous owner ground off part of the saddle tank.. I cleaned up the filing job and then detailed it ...
                                        Later...
                                         
                                        pps.. Let me know if you ever want to trade that lil jo for a small stack of brass detail pieces... or anything else for that matter...
                                         
                                        Sean

                                        Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                        P.S., Thanks again for the extra parts, it wasn't necessary, but I can use all of them except the winterization windows, another friend from the list here was over this evening, saw the bag and grabbed them so fast it'd make your head spin.  So, everything was greatly appreciated and will be used.
                                         
                                        Don
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Christmas presents.

                                        Hello Don,
                                        That looks like the engine I just sold you! I am very happy that you are happy! I just put a piece of paperwork from that engine in an envelope with your address on it. It is dated April 7 1970 - it is pink - and it is the factory test run sheet I forgot to include. Enjoy!
                                         
                                        As for the Varney, I would be VERY VERY happy to take it off of your hands! Here is one I just sold... after detailing it of course...
                                        Later!
                                        Sean


                                         


                                        Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                                        in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2079 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        Mine has the two fingers on the left side (actually looks like one long
                                        spring, coiled around a brass boss on the middle between the front and rear
                                        drivers. Everything I see points to a late 40's, it matches both the
                                        drawing and the photograph in the 1948 catalog (the picture where it's
                                        sitting on a pack of Camel cigarettes, I'm sure many have seen).

                                        Don


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 4:49 PM
                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                        > Pickups?
                                        > 41's had one wiper behind the RR driver, not a pair on LH side.
                                        > Insulator fit between long lower angled cover and frame.
                                        >
                                        > Dave
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann"
                                        > <don.dellmann@>
                                        >> > > wrote:
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central
                                        >> Valley.
                                        >> >
                                        >> > There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches
                                        >> this
                                        >> > drawing exactly
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Don
                                        >> >
                                        >> > don.dellmann@
                                        >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        >> > Owner-Moderator
                                        >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        >> > Co-moderator
                                        >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        >> >
                                        >> Don, your "Li'l Joe" might be the pre-war 6V version. All my
                                        > 1941-
                                        >> 42 ones only have three screws on the bottom too. If ya' get a
                                        >> chance, post som pix of it. Ken
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2080 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:13 PM
                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@>
                                        >> > wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >> Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central
                                        > Valley.
                                        >>
                                        >> There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It matches
                                        > this
                                        >> drawing exactly
                                        >>
                                        >> Don
                                        >>
                                        >> don.dellmann@...
                                        >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        >> Owner-Moderator
                                        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        >> Co-moderator
                                        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        >>
                                        > Don, your "Li'l Joe" might be the pre-war 6V version. All my 1941-
                                        > 42 ones only have three screws on the bottom too. If ya' get a
                                        > chance, post som pix of it. Ken

                                        I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside"

                                        Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring some cars!

                                        Don

                                        don.dellmann@...
                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        Owner-Moderator
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        Co-moderator
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2081 From: Glenn Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Beyond Belonging...
                                        NOW what you need to find is one of those discs that looked like a phonograph record, track around the rim, label "Little Joe Goes to Town".  I have one somewhere, I think--if it hasn't been lost in moves. Got it from local hobby shop in San Carlos when I was in high school. gj 
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 7:59 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Beyond Belonging...

                                        Don.....
                                         
                                        If it runs...I mean...if you restore it to running order...do you issue yourself a certificate or do you have to commit hari-kari in Shinto style? I'm not sure of the rules here. I have a hunch that mere ownership is not enough...it is the first spiritual step toward enlightenment. I suspect obligatory chants must be made as two candles burn with incense at positions on either end of your acquisition. Prayers will be rendered and must. You have begun the journey, Grasshopper!  Live the journey that has only begun.
                                         
                                        John

                                        Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                        You know, looking at the message threads over the last month or so, I've been starting to feel like an outcast in my own group.
                                         
                                         
                                        There was just something that everybody had, and everybody was talking about that I was just left out.
                                         
                                        I was really feeling neglected.
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        Well NO MORE!
                                         
                                        I FINALLY am a member of the group!  I finally belong!
                                         
                                        As of 1:30 this afternoon when I went to the post office, I am now one of you, no longer an outcast!
                                         
                                        I am now the PROUD owner of.......... .......
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN!  :-)
                                         
                                        Don
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         


                                        Be a PS3 game guru.
                                        Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2082 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        Then it has to have 4 screws.
                                        Front one holds the cylinders and boiler, second (originally) motor
                                        mesh, third holds the cover, then back on the frame is the motor
                                        main screw.


                                        >
                                        > Mine has the two fingers on the left side (actually looks like one
                                        long
                                        > spring, coiled around a brass boss on the middle between the front
                                        and rear
                                        > drivers. Everything I see points to a late 40's, it matches both
                                        the
                                        > drawing and the photograph in the 1948 catalog (the picture where
                                        it's
                                        > sitting on a pack of Camel cigarettes, I'm sure many have seen).
                                        >
                                        > Don
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                        > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 4:49 PM
                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Pickups?
                                        > > 41's had one wiper behind the RR driver, not a pair on LH side.
                                        > > Insulator fit between long lower angled cover and frame.
                                        > >
                                        > > Dave
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann"
                                        > > <don.dellmann@>
                                        > >> > > wrote:
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Looking at the three pictures, it looks closest to the Central
                                        > >> Valley.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > There are only three screws in the underside, not 4. It
                                        matches
                                        > >> this
                                        > >> > drawing exactly
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Don
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > don.dellmann@
                                        > >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        > >> > Owner-Moderator
                                        > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        > >> > Co-moderator
                                        > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> Don, your "Li'l Joe" might be the pre-war 6V version. All my
                                        > > 1941-
                                        > >> 42 ones only have three screws on the bottom too. If ya' get a
                                        > >> chance, post som pix of it. Ken
                                        > >>
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2083 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        I hate to think how "proud" you would be if you found one that DID run...  LOL
                                        Congrats...
                                        Dave S.
                                        Owner of a TriAng Docksider that I think still runs.. 

                                        Don Dellmann wrote:
                                        You know, looking at the message threads over the last month or so, I've been starting to feel like an outcast in my own group.
                                         
                                         
                                        There was just something that everybody had, and everybody was talking about that I was just left out.
                                         
                                        I was really feeling neglected.
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        Well NO MORE!
                                         
                                        I FINALLY am a member of the group!  I finally belong!
                                         
                                        As of 1:30 this afternoon when I went to the post office, I am now one of you, no longer an outcast!
                                         
                                        I am now the PROUD owner of.................
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        A VARNEY DOCKSIDE THAT DOESN'T RUN!  :-)
                                         
                                        Don
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         




                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/634 - Release Date: 1/17/2007 4:45 PM
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2084 From: oahurailway Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        >
                                        > I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside"
                                        >
                                        > Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring some
                                        cars!
                                        >
                                        > Don
                                        >
                                        > don.dellmann@...
                                        > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        > Owner-Moderator
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        > Co-moderator
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        >
                                        Thanks for the pics of your "Li'l Joe" Don! The frame is the same
                                        one that was used on the 1941-42 6V version. Note that the lip on the
                                        rear angled up end of the frame plate is identical to the pre-war
                                        piece, & only three screws as you've stated. But, the motor is the
                                        1st 12V Pittman, with the newer center stud/bronze wire two driver
                                        electrical p/u. These were produced postwar between 1946-48, before
                                        the frame was changed in 1949. The CV valve gear (which yours has)
                                        was first produced by the original Central Valley Model Works located
                                        at 13000 Saticoy Street in North Hollywood, CA in 1947. Yours also
                                        has the stanchions & handrails, so a good manufacturing guess is 1947
                                        on that 60 year old little beauty!

                                        Some motors had a shim between the front motor plate & loco frame
                                        which could be holding your motor up a tad too high to properly mesh
                                        with the driver gear, causing the motor to spin. Ken
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2085 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        Yes, the long bottom cover is early. See the gap between the cover
                                        and the frame at the last screw? The insulator for the pickup on the
                                        one RR wheel fit there, and you have a gap.
                                        Also, not the countersunk flathead screw that held the motor AND the
                                        plate down.
                                        Newer plates stop right behind the rear axle journal.

                                        Mine is converting to a new lower plate (done) and double pickups
                                        (done). Another thing was they pcked up power on thr right, while
                                        later ones did on the left, and the motor brushes are wired
                                        backwards.
                                        If yours has been converted to 12v, and the wires aren't swapped, it
                                        will run the other way.

                                        Mine was missing the fiber plate and wiper, did not have the left
                                        hand pickups, and had a 12V motor.
                                        The later ones had a "hump" on the frame on the left side with a 2-
                                        56 hole to mount the LH pickup assembly. The 41 I have is flat. I
                                        drilled, tapped, and had to add.....two 2-56 Kadee washers to fit it
                                        out and miss the armature.

                                        I also upgraded mine to the "upgrade" crosshead and rod.
                                        Looks a whole lot better than the stamped crosshead on the later one.
                                        I will upgrade it in my next order.

                                        Dan Bush at Yardbird has the stuff, pickups, lower covers and all,
                                        if that helps.

                                        Dave


                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside"
                                        > >
                                        > > Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring
                                        some
                                        > cars!
                                        > >
                                        > > Don
                                        > >
                                        > > don.dellmann@
                                        > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        > > Owner-Moderator
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        > > Co-moderator
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        > >
                                        > Thanks for the pics of your "Li'l Joe" Don! The frame is the
                                        same
                                        > one that was used on the 1941-42 6V version. Note that the lip on
                                        the
                                        > rear angled up end of the frame plate is identical to the pre-war
                                        > piece, & only three screws as you've stated. But, the motor is the
                                        > 1st 12V Pittman, with the newer center stud/bronze wire two driver
                                        > electrical p/u. These were produced postwar between 1946-48,
                                        before
                                        > the frame was changed in 1949. The CV valve gear (which yours has)
                                        > was first produced by the original Central Valley Model Works
                                        located
                                        > at 13000 Saticoy Street in North Hollywood, CA in 1947. Yours also
                                        > has the stanchions & handrails, so a good manufacturing guess is
                                        1947
                                        > on that 60 year old little beauty!
                                        >
                                        > Some motors had a shim between the front motor plate & loco
                                        frame
                                        > which could be holding your motor up a tad too high to properly
                                        mesh
                                        > with the driver gear, causing the motor to spin. Ken
                                        >
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2086 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: jodanjackkayla , I see a photo with a question
                                        In your album is a photo of a 2-bay hopper,and a question as to who
                                        made it.

                                        I tried to e-mail you, but it's "private" and not listed.

                                        I have been in ScaleCraft "0" for many moons, and the looks of that
                                        frame sure looks ScaleCraft to me, aluminum with a smooth hollow down
                                        the middle.

                                        It almost appears as if, from the "00" I have seen, that the wheels
                                        may have been changed, but hard to say from the photo.

                                        Just an idea, based upon what I could see, not a "for sure", but
                                        ScaleCraft used the same design criteria in "00" as they did in "0" in
                                        the stuff I've seen.
                                        Especially the cast passenger cars.

                                        Dave
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2087 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        The more I look at those photos (is there a way to "supersize"
                                        them?), the more I see.
                                        #2 screw, which is motor and worm adjustment, looks like it is
                                        turned so far in it has popped through the bottom cover, as has the
                                        rear motor screw.
                                        That means the only thing holding the bottom cover on is the long
                                        boiler screw (#1).
                                        Mine have, for the screw right behind the slot, a very wide flathead
                                        screw.

                                        Dave

                                        >
                                        > Yes, the long bottom cover is early. See the gap between the cover
                                        > and the frame at the last screw? The insulator for the pickup on
                                        the
                                        > one RR wheel fit there, and you have a gap.
                                        > Also, not the countersunk flathead screw that held the motor AND
                                        the
                                        > plate down.
                                        > Newer plates stop right behind the rear axle journal.
                                        >
                                        > Mine is converting to a new lower plate (done) and double pickups
                                        > (done). Another thing was they pcked up power on thr right, while
                                        > later ones did on the left, and the motor brushes are wired
                                        > backwards.
                                        > If yours has been converted to 12v, and the wires aren't swapped,
                                        it
                                        > will run the other way.
                                        >
                                        > Mine was missing the fiber plate and wiper, did not have the left
                                        > hand pickups, and had a 12V motor.
                                        > The later ones had a "hump" on the frame on the left side with a 2-
                                        > 56 hole to mount the LH pickup assembly. The 41 I have is flat. I
                                        > drilled, tapped, and had to add.....two 2-56 Kadee washers to fit
                                        it
                                        > out and miss the armature.
                                        >
                                        > I also upgraded mine to the "upgrade" crosshead and rod.
                                        > Looks a whole lot better than the stamped crosshead on the later
                                        one.
                                        > I will upgrade it in my next order.
                                        >
                                        > Dan Bush at Yardbird has the stuff, pickups, lower covers and all,
                                        > if that helps.
                                        >
                                        > Dave
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside"
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring
                                        > some
                                        > > cars!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Don
                                        > > >
                                        > > > don.dellmann@
                                        > > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        > > > Owner-Moderator
                                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        > > > Co-moderator
                                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        > > >
                                        > > Thanks for the pics of your "Li'l Joe" Don! The frame is the
                                        > same
                                        > > one that was used on the 1941-42 6V version. Note that the lip
                                        on
                                        > the
                                        > > rear angled up end of the frame plate is identical to the pre-
                                        war
                                        > > piece, & only three screws as you've stated. But, the motor is
                                        the
                                        > > 1st 12V Pittman, with the newer center stud/bronze wire two
                                        driver
                                        > > electrical p/u. These were produced postwar between 1946-48,
                                        > before
                                        > > the frame was changed in 1949. The CV valve gear (which yours
                                        has)
                                        > > was first produced by the original Central Valley Model Works
                                        > located
                                        > > at 13000 Saticoy Street in North Hollywood, CA in 1947. Yours
                                        also
                                        > > has the stanchions & handrails, so a good manufacturing guess is
                                        > 1947
                                        > > on that 60 year old little beauty!
                                        > >
                                        > > Some motors had a shim between the front motor plate & loco
                                        > frame
                                        > > which could be holding your motor up a tad too high to properly
                                        > mesh
                                        > > with the driver gear, causing the motor to spin. Ken
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2088 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:37 PM
                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >> I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside"
                                        >>
                                        >> Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring some
                                        > cars!
                                        >>
                                        >> Don
                                        >>
                                        >> don.dellmann@...
                                        >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        >> Owner-Moderator
                                        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        >> Co-moderator
                                        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        >>
                                        > Thanks for the pics of your "Li'l Joe" Don! The frame is the same
                                        > one that was used on the 1941-42 6V version. Note that the lip on the
                                        > rear angled up end of the frame plate is identical to the pre-war
                                        > piece, & only three screws as you've stated. But, the motor is the
                                        > 1st 12V Pittman, with the newer center stud/bronze wire two driver
                                        > electrical p/u. These were produced postwar between 1946-48, before
                                        > the frame was changed in 1949. The CV valve gear (which yours has)
                                        > was first produced by the original Central Valley Model Works located
                                        > at 13000 Saticoy Street in North Hollywood, CA in 1947. Yours also
                                        > has the stanchions & handrails, so a good manufacturing guess is 1947
                                        > on that 60 year old little beauty!
                                        >
                                        > Some motors had a shim between the front motor plate & loco frame
                                        > which could be holding your motor up a tad too high to properly mesh
                                        > with the driver gear, causing the motor to spin. Ken

                                        That's kind of what I was supecting from what I could see in the catalog and
                                        what Other people were saying on the list.

                                        You know something? It's a little scary to think that locomotive is the
                                        same age I am!

                                        I haven't fooled around with it, but when I took the boiler off for the
                                        photo, I did find the motor is quite loose on it's mountings, so I think
                                        this is going to be a relatively easy fix. The only real damage to the
                                        locomotive appears to be the one footboard on the front.

                                        Don

                                        don.dellmann@...
                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        Owner-Moderator
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        Co-moderator
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2089 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/17/2007
                                        Subject: Re: Belonging
                                        Attachments :
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:54 PM
                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                          > The more I look at those photos (is there a way to "supersize"
                                          > them?), the more I see.
                                          > #2 screw, which is motor and worm adjustment, looks like it is
                                          > turned so far in it has popped through the bottom cover, as has the
                                          > rear motor screw.
                                          > That means the only thing holding the bottom cover on is the long
                                          > boiler screw (#1).
                                          > Mine have, for the screw right behind the slot, a very wide flathead
                                          > screw.
                                          >
                                          > Dave
                                          >
                                          >>
                                          >> Yes, the long bottom cover is early. See the gap between the cover
                                          >> and the frame at the last screw? The insulator for the pickup on
                                          > the
                                          >> one RR wheel fit there, and you have a gap.
                                          >> Also, not the countersunk flathead screw that held the motor AND
                                          > the
                                          >> plate down.
                                          >> Newer plates stop right behind the rear axle journal.
                                          >>
                                          >> Mine is converting to a new lower plate (done) and double pickups
                                          >> (done). Another thing was they pcked up power on thr right, while
                                          >> later ones did on the left, and the motor brushes are wired
                                          >> backwards.
                                          >> If yours has been converted to 12v, and the wires aren't swapped,
                                          > it
                                          >> will run the other way.
                                          >>
                                          >> Mine was missing the fiber plate and wiper, did not have the left
                                          >> hand pickups, and had a 12V motor.
                                          >> The later ones had a "hump" on the frame on the left side with a 2-
                                          >> 56 hole to mount the LH pickup assembly. The 41 I have is flat. I
                                          >> drilled, tapped, and had to add.....two 2-56 Kadee washers to fit
                                          > it
                                          >> out and miss the armature.
                                          >>
                                          >> I also upgraded mine to the "upgrade" crosshead and rod.
                                          >> Looks a whole lot better than the stamped crosshead on the later
                                          > one.
                                          >> I will upgrade it in my next order.
                                          >>
                                          >> Dan Bush at Yardbird has the stuff, pickups, lower covers and all,
                                          >> if that helps.
                                          >>
                                          >> Dave

                                          Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced the size.

                                          Don

                                          don.dellmann@...
                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          Owner-Moderator
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          Co-moderator
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2090 From: oahurailway Date: 1/17/2007
                                          Subject: Re: Belonging
                                          -
                                          >
                                          > That's kind of what I was supecting from what I could see in the
                                          catalog and
                                          > what Other people were saying on the list.
                                          >
                                          > You know something? It's a little scary to think that locomotive
                                          is the
                                          > same age I am!
                                          >
                                          > I haven't fooled around with it, but when I took the boiler off for
                                          the
                                          > photo, I did find the motor is quite loose on it's mountings, so I
                                          think
                                          > this is going to be a relatively easy fix. The only real damage to
                                          the
                                          > locomotive appears to be the one footboard on the front.
                                          >
                                          > Don
                                          >
                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          > Owner-Moderator
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          > Co-moderator
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                          >
                                          60! That's why we're into "vintage"! Front step is an easy fix with
                                          a little brass. Tighten that motor down & voila! Ken
                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2091 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Re: Belonging
                                          I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing
                                          there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored.
                                          Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not
                                          blocking anything.
                                          Dave

                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced
                                          the size.
                                          >
                                          > Don
                                          >
                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          > Owner-Moderator
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          > Co-moderator
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                          >
                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2092 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Re: Belonging
                                          Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be able to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned seeing).
                                           
                                          I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble.
                                           
                                          If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to pick, choose, and delete whatever I wish.
                                           
                                          Happy modeling, dave!
                                           
                                          yours
                                           
                                          Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut)

                                          curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                          I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing
                                          there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored.
                                          Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not
                                          blocking anything.
                                          Dave

                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced
                                          the size.
                                          >
                                          > Don
                                          >
                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          > Owner-Moderator
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          > Co-moderator
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                          >





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                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2093 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Re: Belonging - Att'n curmudgeon
                                          Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be able to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned seeing).
                                           
                                          I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble.
                                           
                                          If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to pick, choose, and delete whatever I wish.
                                           
                                          Happy modeling, Dave!
                                           
                                          yours
                                           
                                          Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut)

                                          curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                          I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing
                                          there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored.
                                          Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not
                                          blocking anything.
                                          Dave

                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced
                                          the size.
                                          >
                                          > Don
                                          >
                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          > Owner-Moderator
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          > Co-moderator
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                          >





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                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2094 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Re: Belonging
                                          I'm "web only".
                                          Maybe I need to change that?
                                          My e-mail is listed, if you want to e-mail me those I can see them.
                                          Dave


                                          >
                                          > Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be able
                                          to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned
                                          seeing).
                                          >
                                          > I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble.
                                          >
                                          > If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail
                                          settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to pick,
                                          choose, and delete whatever I wish.
                                          >
                                          > Happy modeling, dave!
                                          >
                                          > yours
                                          >
                                          > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut)
                                          >
                                          > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                          > I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing
                                          > there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored.
                                          > Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not
                                          > blocking anything.
                                          > Dave
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo
                                          reduced
                                          > the size.
                                          > >
                                          > > Don
                                          > >
                                          > > don.dellmann@
                                          > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          > > Owner-Moderator
                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          > > Co-moderator
                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > __________________________________________________
                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                          >
                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2095 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Re: Belonging
                                          I tried to ask this yesterday, but my ISP had problems--fixed now.
                                           
                                          I think it was Dan mentioned doing a bunch of restorations of Varney Docksides.  Is that a commercial operation? I have one that needs work, including CV Valve gear if it can be found--and I have too many other projects to work on--looking for someone to do it.  gj  glenn476@....  (Lets see if this gets out of the outbox! )
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:37 PM
                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                          >
                                          > I made an album in the group photo section " 1948? Dockside"
                                          >
                                          > Now I gotta get offline and go downstairs and start restoring some
                                          cars!
                                          >
                                          > Don
                                          >
                                          > don.dellmann@ ...
                                          > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                          > Owner-Moderator
                                          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                          > Co-moderator
                                          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                          >
                                          Thanks for the pics of your "Li'l Joe" Don! The frame is the same
                                          one that was used on the 1941-42 6V version. Note that the lip on the
                                          rear angled up end of the frame plate is identical to the pre-war
                                          piece, & only three screws as you've stated. But, the motor is the
                                          1st 12V Pittman, with the newer center stud/bronze wire two driver
                                          electrical p/u. These were produced postwar between 1946-48, before
                                          the frame was changed in 1949. The CV valve gear (which yours has)
                                          was first produced by the original Central Valley Model Works located
                                          at 13000 Saticoy Street in North Hollywood, CA in 1947. Yours also
                                          has the stanchions & handrails, so a good manufacturing guess is 1947
                                          on that 60 year old little beauty!

                                          Some motors had a shim between the front motor plate & loco frame
                                          which could be holding your motor up a tad too high to properly mesh
                                          with the driver gear, causing the motor to spin. Ken

                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2096 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Re: Belonging
                                          That is definitely the problem then.

                                          I'll send them to you off list.

                                          Don

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:38 PM
                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                          > I'm "web only".
                                          > Maybe I need to change that?
                                          > My e-mail is listed, if you want to e-mail me those I can see them.
                                          > Dave
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >>
                                          >> Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be able
                                          > to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned
                                          > seeing).
                                          >>
                                          >> I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble.
                                          >>
                                          >> If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail
                                          > settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to pick,
                                          > choose, and delete whatever I wish.
                                          >>
                                          >> Happy modeling, dave!
                                          >>
                                          >> yours
                                          >>
                                          >> Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut)
                                          >>
                                          >> curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                          >> I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing
                                          >> there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored.
                                          >> Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not
                                          >> blocking anything.
                                          >> Dave
                                          >>
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo
                                          > reduced
                                          >> the size.
                                          >> >
                                          >> > Don
                                          >> >
                                          >> > don.dellmann@
                                          >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          >> > Owner-Moderator
                                          >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          >> > Co-moderator
                                          >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                          >> >
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> __________________________________________________
                                          >> Do You Yahoo!?
                                          >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                          >> http://mail.yahoo.com
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2097 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Re: Belonging
                                          Are you getting individual emails?

                                          If you getc "daily digest" or "no email" (read messages on the website) you
                                          won't get the pictures.

                                          If you want them I can forward them to you off list.

                                          Don

                                          don.dellmann@...
                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          Owner-Moderator
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          Co-moderator
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:08 PM
                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging


                                          >I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was nothing
                                          > there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored.
                                          > Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm not
                                          > blocking anything.
                                          > Dave
                                          >
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo reduced
                                          > the size.
                                          >>
                                          >> Don
                                          >>
                                          >> don.dellmann@...
                                          >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          >> Owner-Moderator
                                          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          >> Co-moderator
                                          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2098 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Re: Belonging
                                          Okay, got 'em, now I can see what I wanted to see.
                                          The '41 I have, the frame sides are flat between the "journals".
                                          There is no "hump" to mount the pickups on and hold them away from
                                          the armature.
                                          The 48-49 unit has these humps, on BOTH sides.
                                          Yours has these humps on both sides.
                                          Looking at yours, and this is a guess, the lower cover has been
                                          changed out at some point (early covers have no "saddles" to keep
                                          the axles up tight into the journals, later flat covers that I have
                                          seen do) to an "early" cover.
                                          If you pull the lower cover, I would like to know (primarily 'cause
                                          I'm nosy...no, just increasing my "knowledge base") if there is
                                          ANOTHER drilled and tapped hole behind hole #2.
                                          That would confirm it.

                                          The other possibility is that this was an interim model, and used up
                                          leftover parts from the '41-'42 versions just post-war.

                                          Thanks for the photos, too.

                                          Dave

                                          > That is definitely the problem then.
                                          >
                                          > I'll send them to you off list.
                                          >
                                          > Don
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:38 PM
                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > I'm "web only".
                                          > > Maybe I need to change that?
                                          > > My e-mail is listed, if you want to e-mail me those I can see
                                          them.
                                          > > Dave
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be
                                          able
                                          > > to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you mentioned
                                          > > seeing).
                                          > >>
                                          > >> I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no trouble.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail
                                          > > settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to
                                          pick,
                                          > > choose, and delete whatever I wish.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Happy modeling, dave!
                                          > >>
                                          > >> yours
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut)
                                          > >>
                                          > >> curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote:
                                          > >> I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was
                                          nothing
                                          > >> there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not stored.
                                          > >> Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure I'm
                                          not
                                          > >> blocking anything.
                                          > >> Dave
                                          > >>
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo
                                          > > reduced
                                          > >> the size.
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> > Don
                                          > >> >
                                          > >> > don.dellmann@
                                          > >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          > >> > Owner-Moderator
                                          > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          > >> > Co-moderator
                                          > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                          > >> >
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >> __________________________________________________
                                          > >> Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                          > >> http://mail.yahoo.com
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2099 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Re: Belonging
                                          And, blowing up the photo of the chassis alone, to like 133%, it
                                          sure looks like the worm and gear are meshed.
                                          Of course, at that resolution it get's a tad shaky.

                                          Dave

                                          >
                                          > Okay, got 'em, now I can see what I wanted to see.
                                          > The '41 I have, the frame sides are flat between the "journals".
                                          > There is no "hump" to mount the pickups on and hold them away from
                                          > the armature.
                                          > The 48-49 unit has these humps, on BOTH sides.
                                          > Yours has these humps on both sides.
                                          > Looking at yours, and this is a guess, the lower cover has been
                                          > changed out at some point (early covers have no "saddles" to keep
                                          > the axles up tight into the journals, later flat covers that I
                                          have
                                          > seen do) to an "early" cover.
                                          > If you pull the lower cover, I would like to know
                                          (primarily 'cause
                                          > I'm nosy...no, just increasing my "knowledge base") if there is
                                          > ANOTHER drilled and tapped hole behind hole #2.
                                          > That would confirm it.
                                          >
                                          > The other possibility is that this was an interim model, and used
                                          up
                                          > leftover parts from the '41-'42 versions just post-war.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks for the photos, too.
                                          >
                                          > Dave
                                          >
                                          > > That is definitely the problem then.
                                          > >
                                          > > I'll send them to you off list.
                                          > >
                                          > > Don
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@>
                                          > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:38 PM
                                          > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belonging
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > I'm "web only".
                                          > > > Maybe I need to change that?
                                          > > > My e-mail is listed, if you want to e-mail me those I can see
                                          > them.
                                          > > > Dave
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Dave - if you are signed up for "daily digest" you won't be
                                          > able
                                          > > > to see the pics, as Yahoo doesn't store them(which you
                                          mentioned
                                          > > > seeing).
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> I signed up for "individual e-mails" and have had no
                                          trouble.
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> If you need that, go to the group and change your e-mail
                                          > > > settings. I get an annoying amunt of e-mail, but I am free to
                                          > pick,
                                          > > > choose, and delete whatever I wish.
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Happy modeling, dave!
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> yours
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fococut)
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote:
                                          > > >> I saw this last night, about 14 hours ago, and there was
                                          > nothing
                                          > > >> there other than it told me it was, and a jpeg, and not
                                          stored.
                                          > > >> Maybe I've go a setting wrong somewhere. I'll go make sure
                                          I'm
                                          > not
                                          > > >> blocking anything.
                                          > > >> Dave
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Here's the raw photos right out of the camera before Yahoo
                                          > > > reduced
                                          > > >> the size.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Don
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > don.dellmann@
                                          > > >> > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                          > > >> > Owner-Moderator
                                          > > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                          > > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                          > > >> > Co-moderator
                                          > > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> __________________________________________________
                                          > > >> Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                          around
                                          > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2100 From: jodanjackkayla Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Re: jodanjackkayla , I see a photo with a question
                                          Thanks Dave, I will have to fix the email thing. I appriciate the
                                          info. Tom

                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > In your album is a photo of a 2-bay hopper,and a question as to who
                                          > made it.
                                          >
                                          > I tried to e-mail you, but it's "private" and not listed.
                                          >
                                          > I have been in ScaleCraft "0" for many moons, and the looks of that
                                          > frame sure looks ScaleCraft to me, aluminum with a smooth hollow
                                          down
                                          > the middle.
                                          >
                                          > It almost appears as if, from the "00" I have seen, that the wheels
                                          > may have been changed, but hard to say from the photo.
                                          >
                                          > Just an idea, based upon what I could see, not a "for sure", but
                                          > ScaleCraft used the same design criteria in "00" as they did in "0"
                                          in
                                          > the stuff I've seen.
                                          > Especially the cast passenger cars.
                                          >
                                          > Dave
                                          >
                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2101 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/18/2007
                                          Subject: Rescued Junque
                                          Attachments :
                                            Out of the batch of cars that came with the infamous Dockside, got the first
                                            two back in service. The boxcar is a Silver Streak, I believe the hopper to
                                            be a Red Ball. Both Red Ball & Varney made this car, but the varney was
                                            this aluminum stampings, and this car appears to be diecast.

                                            Don

                                            don.dellmann@...
                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                            Owner-Moderator
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                            Co-moderator
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2102 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/19/2007
                                            Subject: Fix Me Please!
                                            To Anyone who knows...

                                            I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT
                                            WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN
                                            INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF

                                            ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT?

                                            MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT.

                                            I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING!
                                            AND REALLY NICE DETAIL

                                            I will try to post pics....

                                            Thanks so much in advance...
                                            Sean
                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2103 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 1/19/2007
                                            Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                            Sean:
                                             You might try putting a piece of pipe in there and see if you can bring it back to being round again. I would first see if I could take off the smoke stack, and then try and use the pipe to put pressure on the inside of the smoke box, and gently try to bring it back in shape. Don't use a lot of force and remember it is brass. Start with smaller piece of pipe or even wood, and slowly work on it to get it back into being round. The piece that pop out will then fit back in place because it wasn't solder in place, it just a press fit so that you can put in more weight into the engine or to even put light to your headlight.
                                             I hope that this has help you.
                                             Mike Looney
                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2104 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/19/2007
                                            Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                            Be thankful you have something small to work with that has thin
                                            brass.
                                            I had to do a #1 gauge live-steamer that had happened to.

                                            Seems the tricks posted should do it.

                                            Is the stack open to the smokebox?
                                            Possibly a small block of wood, a screw, nut and washer on top of
                                            the screw, hole in the wood, inserted, and put a screwdriver down
                                            the stack and back the screw out slowly against the washer.....

                                            >
                                            > To Anyone who knows...
                                            >
                                            > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE
                                            THAT
                                            > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED
                                            DOWN
                                            > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF
                                            >
                                            > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT?
                                            >
                                            > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT.
                                            >
                                            > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL....
                                            DOING!
                                            > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL
                                            >
                                            > I will try to post pics....
                                            >
                                            > Thanks so much in advance...
                                            > Sean
                                            >
                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2105 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
                                            Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                            Thanks Mike,
                                            That is exactly how  was thinking of doing it... The only problem I have with it is all the detail pieces that are sticking through to the inside of the smoke box. It might be difficult to sneak past those... I did not want to screw it up, if someone knew a better way.. The stack just pops off (the sweat joint is broken from the fall) I just keep it pressed in to keep from losing it. Luckily, I was given the smoke box cover with the engine when I purchased it... I have a 2-8-8-4 that is missing the cover - no damage though.  Fortunately, I have one with two pumps on it that needs to be worked over a little to fit.  
                                             
                                             I never knew the covers wer not soldiered on... That makes me feel a ton better.
                                            Thanks Mike, I fell better about giving it a try... Did you see the pictures I posted?
                                             
                                            Sean


                                            "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote:
                                            Sean:
                                             You might try putting a piece of pipe in there and see if you can bring it back to being round again. I would first see if I could take off the smoke stack, and then try and use the pipe to put pressure on the inside of the smoke box, and gently try to bring it back in shape. Don't use a lot of force and remember it is brass. Start with smaller piece of pipe or even wood, and slowly work on it to get it back into being round. The piece that pop out will then fit back in place because it wasn't solder in place, it just a press fit so that you can put in more weight into the engine or to even put light to your headlight.
                                             I hope that this has help you.
                                             Mike Looney


                                            Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2106 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
                                            Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                            Hello, ?
                                            I am very thankful.... I love the engine and will post new pics of the finished engine in the - Fix Me Please - folder I started...
                                             
                                            I tried Mike's idea last night... I replied to his message, but because I tried to add pictures to it, the message was too large and it was returned to me...( I just made that discovery)  I just sent a new one..
                                             
                                            I need to take out one screw which seems to be holding on the chassis / steam cylinders before I can put the wood into the smoke box any farther.. I will definitely try your idea... that sounds great! I will bend the washer a little - to match the original curve -
                                             
                                            Honestly, I was thinking of a bolt & concrete anchor that expands....
                                             
                                            Thanks so much!
                                            Sean

                                            curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                            Be thankful you have something small to work with that has thin
                                            brass.
                                            I had to do a #1 gauge live-steamer that had happened to.

                                            Seems the tricks posted should do it.

                                            Is the stack open to the smokebox?
                                            Possibly a small block of wood, a screw, nut and washer on top of
                                            the screw, hole in the wood, inserted, and put a screwdriver down
                                            the stack and back the screw out slowly against the washer.....

                                            >
                                            > To Anyone who knows...
                                            >
                                            > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE
                                            THAT
                                            > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED
                                            DOWN
                                            > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF
                                            >
                                            > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT?
                                            >
                                            > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT.
                                            >
                                            > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL....
                                            DOING!
                                            > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL
                                            >
                                            > I will try to post pics....
                                            >
                                            > Thanks so much in advance...
                                            > Sean
                                            >



                                            Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2107 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/20/2007
                                            Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                            All I can think of is if you can find a piece of pipe or a HARDWOOD dowel
                                            that's the right diameter, taper one end a little, and see if you can work
                                            it inside as a mandrell and hammer it out round again.

                                            The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your eBay profits
                                            to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that believe
                                            it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't realize
                                            it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the better,
                                            because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to spread
                                            to adjoining work.

                                            Don

                                            don.dellmann@...
                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                            Owner-Moderator
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                            Co-moderator
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...>
                                            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:45 AM
                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please!


                                            > To Anyone who knows...
                                            >
                                            > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT
                                            > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN
                                            > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF
                                            >
                                            > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT?
                                            >
                                            > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT.
                                            >
                                            > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING!
                                            > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL
                                            >
                                            > I will try to post pics....
                                            >
                                            > Thanks so much in advance...
                                            > Sean
                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2108 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
                                            Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                            HEY DON, 
                                            I AM JUST ABOUT TO STARY PACKING BOXES AND PRINTING LABELS...
                                             
                                            MY GUN IS A SEARS 140/100 WATT.. 250 WOULD DO ME JUST FINE... THE QUICK HEAT MAKES SENCE..
                                             
                                            I HAVE ALSO SEEN THOSE MINI TORCHES... I WONDER IF ANYONE KNOWS HOW THEY WORK?
                                             
                                            I WILL HAVE TO GET A NEW IRON THOUGH... I WAS ALSO THINKING OF TAPERING THE DOWEL TOO.. I DO HAVE A TINY LITTLE HAMMER... I WOULD HATE TO MISS AND SMASH SOME OF THE DETAIL THOUGH...
                                             
                                            IT IS HARD TO SPEND MY PROFITS ON ANYTHING BUT TRAINS - OR MY 69 MUSTANG.. (just put a pic in my new folder (SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS)... GOT TO BITE THE BULLET, I GUESS.
                                             
                                            TAHNKS DON!
                                            SEAN

                                            Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                            All I can think of is if you can find a piece of pipe or a HARDWOOD dowel
                                            that's the right diameter, taper one end a little, and see if you can work
                                            it inside as a mandrell and hammer it out round again.

                                            The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your eBay profits
                                            to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that believe
                                            it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't realize
                                            it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the better,
                                            because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to spread
                                            to adjoining work.

                                            Don

                                            don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                            http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                            Owner-Moderator
                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                            Co-moderator
                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com>
                                            To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                            Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:45 AM
                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please!

                                            > To Anyone who knows...
                                            >
                                            > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT
                                            > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN
                                            > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF
                                            >
                                            > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT?
                                            >
                                            > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT.
                                            >
                                            > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING!
                                            > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL
                                            >
                                            > I will try to post pics....
                                            >
                                            > Thanks so much in advance...
                                            > Sean



                                            Need Mail bonding?
                                            Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2109 From: John Hagen Date: 1/20/2007
                                            Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                            The operative word here is "IRON". If you need to do any serious work
                                            that requires HEAT, get a soldering iron as opposed to a soldering
                                            gun. You may know this but in your posts you have used both terms.
                                            They are NOT interchangeable. Soldering guns do produce a heat in a
                                            short time but their tips have little mass and as soon as you touch
                                            them to some thing bigger than a small wire, like a loco boiler, all
                                            the heat gets sucked out of the tip. Irons have larger tips to absord
                                            the heat, which is why they take longer to heat up, so there is more
                                            heat volume to transfer to the item being soldered. I worked at a VW
                                            dealer and observed a technician struggling (and cussing) for some
                                            time trying to solder 12 gauge wiring to a heater blower resistor
                                            with his high wattage gun. I suggested he try an iron; he went to the
                                            tool room and got the recommended tool for the job, a large soldering
                                            iron. It only took a few seconds per wire once the iron was heated
                                            up.

                                            A torch will also work well but do apply a LOT of heat quickly. It
                                            may take a bit of practice for model work but hey are the tool of
                                            choice for experienced modellers on bigger items. The soldering guns
                                            do have uses where the volume of heat isn't important, especially in
                                            the electronic end of things.

                                            I recently purchased one of the new "instant heat" battery powered
                                            soldering tools from Harbor Feight Tools for $5 less than "as
                                            advertised on TV" and paid no shipping charge (I happen have one
                                            close to me). I've used it only once, but it does show promise. More
                                            use will tell the tale but it seems to work like a smaller (25 -35
                                            watt) iron.

                                            By the way Sean, when on-line and you type in UPPER CASE, you are
                                            YELLING.

                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > HEY DON,
                                            > I AM JUST ABOUT TO STARY PACKING BOXES AND PRINTING LABELS...
                                            >
                                            > MY GUN IS A SEARS 140/100 WATT.. 250 WOULD DO ME JUST FINE... THE
                                            QUICK HEAT MAKES SENCE..
                                            >
                                            > I HAVE ALSO SEEN THOSE MINI TORCHES... I WONDER IF ANYONE KNOWS
                                            HOW THEY WORK?
                                            >
                                            > I WILL HAVE TO GET A NEW IRON THOUGH... I WAS ALSO THINKING OF
                                            TAPERING THE DOWEL TOO.. I DO HAVE A TINY LITTLE HAMMER... I WOULD
                                            HATE TO MISS AND SMASH SOME OF THE DETAIL THOUGH...
                                            >
                                            > IT IS HARD TO SPEND MY PROFITS ON ANYTHING BUT TRAINS - OR MY 69
                                            MUSTANG.. (just put a pic in my new folder (SOME OF MY MANY
                                            PROJECTS)... GOT TO BITE THE BULLET, I GUESS.
                                            >
                                            > TAHNKS DON!
                                            > SEAN
                                            >
                                            > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                            > All I can think of is if you can find a piece of pipe or
                                            a HARDWOOD dowel
                                            > that's the right diameter, taper one end a little, and see if you
                                            can work
                                            > it inside as a mandrell and hammer it out round again.
                                            >
                                            > The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your
                                            eBay profits
                                            > to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that
                                            believe
                                            > it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't
                                            realize
                                            > it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the
                                            better,
                                            > because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to
                                            spread
                                            > to adjoining work.
                                            >
                                            > Don
                                            >
                                            > don.dellmann@...
                                            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                            > Owner-Moderator
                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                            > Co-moderator
                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...>
                                            > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:45 AM
                                            > Subject: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please!
                                            >
                                            > > To Anyone who knows...
                                            > >
                                            > > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT
                                            > > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED
                                            DOWN
                                            > > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF
                                            > >
                                            > > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT?
                                            > >
                                            > > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT.
                                            > >
                                            > > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL....
                                            DOING!
                                            > > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL
                                            > >
                                            > > I will try to post pics....
                                            > >
                                            > > Thanks so much in advance...
                                            > > Sean
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ---------------------------------
                                            > Need Mail bonding?
                                            > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
                                            >
                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2110 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/20/2007
                                            Subject: Soldering brass
                                            "Don Dellmann" opined:


                                            >The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your eBay profits
                                            >to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that believe
                                            >it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't realize
                                            >it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the better,
                                            >because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to spread
                                            >to adjoining work.

                                            Excellent recommendation...when I visited a "brass manufacturing" shop in
                                            Japan during the 60s, I was amazed watching those rather demure small
                                            Japanese women assembling brass locos with a soldering iron that looked too
                                            big for them to lift. The secret is wattage with a very LARGE tip on the
                                            iron...massive heat will get the job done before all the other parts start
                                            to fall off....a soldering gun or pencil will never do.

                                            My iron has a copper tip between 1/2 and 3/4 inch wide.

                                            One of these days, if I can find them, I'll upload a few of the B&W pix I
                                            took at one of Kumata's "factories".


                                            Ray Hobin
                                            NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                            Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2111 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 1/20/2007
                                            Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                            Sean:
                                             I just looked at the picture and it not that bad, now what I would do is to remove some of the piece on top of the smokebox, like the number boards and the feedwater heater, and the smoke stack, and then heat it up just a little bit while using a pipe or a piece of wood to bring it back into shape.
                                             Now on your other project I would check with Bowser and there Cal-Scale line and see if they have the smoke box cover that you will need to replace the one that is missing.
                                             There is also a listing in Walther's of Cal-Scale part but I don't know if is a full listing.
                                             I hope this help you out.
                                             Mike Looney
                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2112 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/20/2007
                                            Subject: More cars running.
                                            Attachments :
                                              Got two more cars running out of the "junque" assortment.

                                              Both are 1940's Mantuas.

                                              Don

                                              don.dellmann@...
                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                              Owner-Moderator
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                              Co-moderator
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2113 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                              The "Blazer" torch is nice--runs on lighter-fuel butane--fills from a large can.  I'd put a hard cylindrical mandrel in the smokebox and work the outside with a piece of soft pine or redwood--rubbing the brass. Possibly anneal the damaged area with a small torch if you can do so without doing more damage. gj
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:23 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please!

                                              HEY DON, 
                                              I AM JUST ABOUT TO STARY PACKING BOXES AND PRINTING LABELS...
                                               
                                              MY GUN IS A SEARS 140/100 WATT.. 250 WOULD DO ME JUST FINE... THE QUICK HEAT MAKES SENCE..
                                               
                                              I HAVE ALSO SEEN THOSE MINI TORCHES... I WONDER IF ANYONE KNOWS HOW THEY WORK?
                                               
                                              I WILL HAVE TO GET A NEW IRON THOUGH... I WAS ALSO THINKING OF TAPERING THE DOWEL TOO.. I DO HAVE A TINY LITTLE HAMMER... I WOULD HATE TO MISS AND SMASH SOME OF THE DETAIL THOUGH...
                                               
                                              IT IS HARD TO SPEND MY PROFITS ON ANYTHING BUT TRAINS - OR MY 69 MUSTANG.. (just put a pic in my new folder (SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS)... GOT TO BITE THE BULLET, I GUESS.
                                               
                                              TAHNKS DON!
                                              SEAN

                                              Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                              All I can think of is if you can find a piece of pipe or a HARDWOOD dowel
                                              that's the right diameter, taper one end a little, and see if you can work
                                              it inside as a mandrell and hammer it out round again.

                                              The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your eBay profits
                                              to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that believe
                                              it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't realize
                                              it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the better,
                                              because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to spread
                                              to adjoining work.

                                              Don

                                              don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                              http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                              Owner-Moderator
                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                              Co-moderator
                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com>
                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                              Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:45 AM
                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please!

                                              > To Anyone who knows...
                                              >
                                              > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT
                                              > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED DOWN
                                              > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF
                                              >
                                              > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT?
                                              >
                                              > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT.
                                              >
                                              > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL.... DOING!
                                              > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL
                                              >
                                              > I will try to post pics....
                                              >
                                              > Thanks so much in advance...
                                              > Sean



                                              Need Mail bonding?
                                              Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2114 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: More cars running.
                                              But with Kadee couplers?  and not even the old "K" series??gj
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:27 PM
                                              Subject: [vintageHO] More cars running.

                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2115 From: Dale Smith Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
                                              With all the discussion about the Varney 0-4-0T, I went back to look at an uncompleted kit I had purchased some time ago.  It came complete with the Varney parts sheet and the detailed instructions for the Central Valley Valve Gear from 1949. 
                                               
                                              I will need a significant number of parts, and probably a whole new valve gear kit before I can restore it, not to mention the time.  The cylinder casting is broken off on one side, which may have happened when the prior owner, following the CV instructions attempted to "Force crosshead guides into square holes in cylinder casting."  The break could easily be glued back together with cyanoacrylate, but the cylinder casting seems to be suffering from some kind of metal rot.  It seems solid enough, but large cracks are apparent all over it.  The body is fine though.
                                               
                                              Since others might have a use for these instructions, I scanned them and placed them in the files section of the group website.  I would have sent it as an attachment, but it is about 1 meg to make it still readable.  The link is shown below.  I hope it is useful.
                                               
                                               
                                              Dale Smith
                                              Pacifica, CA

                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2116 From: oahurailway Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > With all the discussion about the Varney 0-4-0T, I went back to
                                              look at an uncompleted kit I had purchased some time ago. It came
                                              complete with the Varney parts sheet and the detailed instructions
                                              for the Central Valley Valve Gear from 1949.
                                              >
                                              > I will need a significant number of parts, and probably a whole new
                                              valve gear kit before I can restore it, not to mention the time. The
                                              cylinder casting is broken off on one side, which may have happened
                                              when the prior owner, following the CV instructions attempted
                                              to "Force crosshead guides into square holes in cylinder casting."
                                              The break could easily be glued back together with cyanoacrylate, but
                                              the cylinder casting seems to be suffering from some kind of metal
                                              rot. It seems solid enough, but large cracks are apparent all over
                                              it. The body is fine though.
                                              >
                                              > Since others might have a use for these instructions, I scanned
                                              them and placed them in the files section of the group website. I
                                              would have sent it as an attachment, but it is about 1 meg to make it
                                              still readable. The link is shown below. I hope it is useful.
                                              >
                                              > http://tinyurl.com/3cwr6w
                                              >
                                              > Dale Smith
                                              > Pacifica, CA
                                              >

                                              Thanks Dale for scanning the CV valve gear instruction sheet! You
                                              can find parts for the Varney "Dockside" at Bowser on line at;
                                              http://www.bowser-trains.com .They make the Delrin cylinder #1-70223,
                                              a very nice valve gear kit #3-217 (see my photo album on the
                                              1941 "Dockside"), & a super detail kit #3-218 among other items, as
                                              they acquired some of Varney's original tooling. Click
                                              on "Manufacturers #s On The Price Lists" at their website. Ken
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2117 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
                                              Hello Ken,
                                              I met up with Tom today and we exchanged trades... Included with mine was the CV valve gear kit. He told me to scan the instructions and send you a pic of them... Would you rather have the actual original... I do not need it after I scan it. I could mail it to you... The most it would cost me is the price of the stamp,, bid deal... If you want it, it is yours..
                                              Sean

                                              oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@. ..> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > With all the discussion about the Varney 0-4-0T, I went back to
                                              look at an uncompleted kit I had purchased some time ago. It came
                                              complete with the Varney parts sheet and the detailed instructions
                                              for the Central Valley Valve Gear from 1949.
                                              >
                                              > I will need a significant number of parts, and probably a whole new
                                              valve gear kit before I can restore it, not to mention the time. The
                                              cylinder casting is broken off on one side, which may have happened
                                              when the prior owner, following the CV instructions attempted
                                              to "Force crosshead guides into square holes in cylinder casting."
                                              The break could easily be glued back together with cyanoacrylate, but
                                              the cylinder casting seems to be suffering from some kind of metal
                                              rot. It seems solid enough, but large cracks are apparent all over
                                              it. The body is fine though.
                                              >
                                              > Since others might have a use for these instructions, I scanned
                                              them and placed them in the files section of the group website. I
                                              would have sent it as an attachment, but it is about 1 meg to make it
                                              still readable. The link is shown below. I hope it is useful.
                                              >
                                              > http://tinyurl. com/3cwr6w
                                              >
                                              > Dale Smith
                                              > Pacifica, CA
                                              >

                                              Thanks Dale for scanning the CV valve gear instruction sheet! You
                                              can find parts for the Varney "Dockside" at Bowser on line at;
                                              http://www.bowser- trains.com .They make the Delrin cylinder #1-70223,
                                              a very nice valve gear kit #3-217 (see my photo album on the
                                              1941 "Dockside"), & a super detail kit #3-218 among other items, as
                                              they acquired some of Varney's original tooling. Click
                                              on "Manufacturers #s On The Price Lists" at their website. Ken



                                              Finding fabulous fares is fun.
                                              Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2118 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: More cars running.
                                              If it makes you happy, there are a couple cars on the layout with "k"s, and even one of my cabeese with the old MDC mechanical knuckles. :-)
                                               
                                              The operative word here in the group though is "operators".  We don't just collect this stuff, we RUN it, and on my layout that means Kadees.  (These cars came with Mantua loop & hooks).  I also upgrade the trucks and wheelsets if necessary.  For the time being these are running on the original Mantua trucks, but if they gibve trouble they WILL be swapped out with newer trucks.  I also pride myself on the fact that there is not a plastic wheel on the layout with the possible exception of one or two insulated wheels on a locomotive or two.
                                               
                                              Don
                                               
                                               
                                               
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:28 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More cars running.

                                              But with Kadee couplers?  and not even the old "K" series??gj
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:27 PM
                                              Subject: [vintageHO] More cars running.

                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2119 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                              Hello John and Ray,
                                               
                                              look... No Caps!
                                               
                                              Sorry, I a not YELLING. It is a habit. I work using AutoCAD at least 2-4 days a week. Also... I list items "occasionally" on eBay... I tend to use caps there as well.
                                               
                                              As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it makes perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of Pitt. earning my engineering degree tell me you are absolutely correct. Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about using such a large object to do detail work on the brass, but if you say little Japanese women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too big for them to lift, then I should be able to give it a go...Thank you.  I do believe now, I will be getting one of each. Right now, I have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron that I use my map gas torch to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long and 1/2 - 3/4 inch thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I used it. I think I would want an electric one for this type of work..
                                               
                                              As for the 2-8-8-4, I have dozens of brass smoke box covers and one in particular picked out that I will use... It needs a little working over to fit properly. It is just a matter of getting around to it...
                                               
                                              Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any  advice I can use on my mustang I have pictured?
                                              Sean

                                              John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                              The operative word here is "IRON". If you need to do any serious work
                                              that requires HEAT, get a soldering iron as opposed to a soldering
                                              gun. You may know this but in your posts you have used both terms.
                                              They are NOT interchangeable. Soldering guns do produce a heat in a
                                              short time but their tips have little mass and as soon as you touch
                                              them to some thing bigger than a small wire, like a loco boiler, all
                                              the heat gets sucked out of the tip. Irons have larger tips to absord
                                              the heat, which is why they take longer to heat up, so there is more
                                              heat volume to transfer to the item being soldered. I worked at a VW
                                              dealer and observed a technician struggling (and cussing) for some
                                              time trying to solder 12 gauge wiring to a heater blower resistor
                                              with his high wattage gun. I suggested he try an iron; he went to the
                                              tool room and got the recommended tool for the job, a large soldering
                                              iron. It only took a few seconds per wire once the iron was heated
                                              up.

                                              A torch will also work well but do apply a LOT of heat quickly. It
                                              may take a bit of practice for model work but hey are the tool of
                                              choice for experienced modellers on bigger items. The soldering guns
                                              do have uses where the volume of heat isn't important, especially in
                                              the electronic end of things.

                                              I recently purchased one of the new "instant heat" battery powered
                                              soldering tools from Harbor Feight Tools for $5 less than "as
                                              advertised on TV" and paid no shipping charge (I happen have one
                                              close to me). I've used it only once, but it does show promise. More
                                              use will tell the tale but it seems to work like a smaller (25 -35
                                              watt) iron.

                                              By the way Sean, when on-line and you type in UPPER CASE, you are
                                              YELLING.

                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > HEY DON,
                                              > I AM JUST ABOUT TO STARY PACKING BOXES AND PRINTING LABELS...
                                              >
                                              > MY GUN IS A SEARS 140/100 WATT.. 250 WOULD DO ME JUST FINE... THE
                                              QUICK HEAT MAKES SENCE..
                                              >
                                              > I HAVE ALSO SEEN THOSE MINI TORCHES... I WONDER IF ANYONE KNOWS
                                              HOW THEY WORK?
                                              >
                                              > I WILL HAVE TO GET A NEW IRON THOUGH... I WAS ALSO THINKING OF
                                              TAPERING THE DOWEL TOO.. I DO HAVE A TINY LITTLE HAMMER... I WOULD
                                              HATE TO MISS AND SMASH SOME OF THE DETAIL THOUGH...
                                              >
                                              > IT IS HARD TO SPEND MY PROFITS ON ANYTHING BUT TRAINS - OR MY 69
                                              MUSTANG.. (just put a pic in my new folder (SOME OF MY MANY
                                              PROJECTS)... GOT TO BITE THE BULLET, I GUESS.
                                              >
                                              > TAHNKS DON!
                                              > SEAN
                                              >
                                              > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote:
                                              > All I can think of is if you can find a piece of pipe or
                                              a HARDWOOD dowel
                                              > that's the right diameter, taper one end a little, and see if you
                                              can work
                                              > it inside as a mandrell and hammer it out round again.
                                              >
                                              > The other alternative, (and I recommend this), use some of your
                                              eBay profits
                                              > to buy a bigger soldering iron:-) I have a Sears 250 watt gun that
                                              believe
                                              > it or not, I use to solder 28 gauge trolley overhead. People don't
                                              realize
                                              > it, but when doing very precision work, the hotter you can get the
                                              better,
                                              > because you can get in and out FAST before the heat has a chance to
                                              spread
                                              > to adjoining work.
                                              >
                                              > Don
                                              >
                                              > don.dellmann@ ...
                                              > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                              > Owner-Moderator
                                              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                              > Co-moderator
                                              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                              > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                              > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:45 AM
                                              > Subject: [vintageHO] Fix Me Please!
                                              >
                                              > > To Anyone who knows...
                                              > >
                                              > > I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE THAT
                                              > > WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED
                                              DOWN
                                              > > INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF
                                              > >
                                              > > ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT?
                                              > >
                                              > > MY IRON IS NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APPART OR RE-ASSEMBLE IT.
                                              > >
                                              > > I MADE ANOTHER DISCOVERY... IT HAS SPRUNG DRIVERS AS WELL....
                                              DOING!
                                              > > AND REALLY NICE DETAIL
                                              > >
                                              > > I will try to post pics....
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks so much in advance...
                                              > > Sean
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                              > Need Mail bonding?
                                              > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
                                              >



                                              8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                                              with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2120 From: Dale Smith Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
                                              Ken,
                                               
                                              Thanks for the information on parts availability.   While Delrin would be fine, I would really like to find a die cast cylinder assembly if that is even possible.  I looked at your pictures more closely and you certainly have the valve gear covered and they all look pretty good.  On the Bowser valve gear photo, are you using the Delrin cylinder?  It looks a little different with a bit of a mold line down the middle.  Do you know if the Central Valley gear is still available anywhere?
                                               
                                              Dale Smith
                                              Pacifica, CA
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:49 PM
                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear


                                              Thanks Dale for scanning the CV valve gear instruction sheet! You
                                              can find parts for the Varney "Dockside" at Bowser on line at;
                                              http://www.bowser- trains.com .They make the Delrin cylinder #1-70223,
                                              a very nice valve gear kit #3-217 (see my photo album on the
                                              1941 "Dockside"), & a super detail kit #3-218 among other items, as
                                              they acquired some of Varney's original tooling. Click
                                              on "Manufacturers #s On The Price Lists" at their website. Ken

                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2121 From: John Hagen Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                              Gee, Sean, I feel bad enough about trying to tell an engineer how a
                                              soldering iron works. Now you ask for advice concerning your vintage
                                              Mustang. I did own a couple of them, an early 65 (64 1/2) and a 66.
                                              Rather enjoyed the 65, a 289 4 bbl 4spd notch back, but I am a died-
                                              in-the-wool Mopar guy (at least so far as the muscle car era) so my
                                              suggestion would be.... (message bleeped in the best interest of the
                                              group).

                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it
                                              makes perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of
                                              Pitt. earning my engineering degree tell me you are absolutely
                                              correct. Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about
                                              using such a large object to do detail work on the brass, but if you
                                              say little Japanese women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too
                                              big for them to lift, then I should be able to give it a go...Thank
                                              you. I do believe now, I will be getting one of each. Right now, I
                                              have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron that I use my map gas torch
                                              to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long and 1/2 - 3/4 inch
                                              thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I used it. I think
                                              I would want an electric one for this type of work..
                                              >
                                              > Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can
                                              use on my mustang I have pictured?
                                              > Sean
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2122 From: Tom Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Skeleton Log Car Plans
                                              Hi,I am looking for some plans to scratchbuild some skelaton log cars.
                                              Do any of you have any plans you could send or know where I can find
                                              some plans online. Thanks, Tom
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2123 From: sean naylor Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                              Hey John, No worries, I did not take it anyway but as good advice...
                                               
                                              I feel the same way about Mopar as you do about Ford! However the Hemi Cuda is rather nice... In the mid-70's my brother had a 69.. Some guy ran a redlight... T boned him... Cracked the block and totaled the car...I was 5 or 6 at the time... I remember it sitting out in front of the house for a couple of weeks... I let all the air out of the tires.... Boy was my brother mad when he had to pump them up with one of those old foot pumps.... Sean

                                              John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                              Gee, Sean, I feel bad enough about trying to tell an engineer how a
                                              soldering iron works. Now you ask for advice concerning your vintage
                                              Mustang. I did own a couple of them, an early 65 (64 1/2) and a 66.
                                              Rather enjoyed the 65, a 289 4 bbl 4spd notch back, but I am a died-
                                              in-the-wool Mopar guy (at least so far as the muscle car era) so my
                                              suggestion would be.... (message bleeped in the best interest of the
                                              group).

                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it
                                              makes perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of
                                              Pitt. earning my engineering degree tell me you are absolutely
                                              correct. Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about
                                              using such a large object to do detail work on the brass, but if you
                                              say little Japanese women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too
                                              big for them to lift, then I should be able to give it a go...Thank
                                              you. I do believe now, I will be getting one of each. Right now, I
                                              have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron that I use my map gas torch
                                              to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long and 1/2 - 3/4 inch
                                              thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I used it. I think
                                              I would want an electric one for this type of work..
                                              >
                                              > Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can
                                              use on my mustang I have pictured?
                                              > Sean



                                              TV dinner still cooling?
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                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2124 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
                                              ZAMAC disintegration.
                                              Happens.
                                              Have you contacted Yardbird?

                                              >
                                              > With all the discussion about the Varney 0-4-0T, I went back to
                                              look at an uncompleted kit I had purchased some time ago. It came
                                              complete with the Varney parts sheet and the detailed instructions
                                              for the Central Valley Valve Gear from 1949.
                                              >
                                              > The cylinder casting is broken off on one side, which may have
                                              happened when the prior owner, following the CV instructions
                                              attempted to "Force crosshead guides into square holes in cylinder
                                              casting." The break could easily be glued back together with
                                              cyanoacrylate, but the cylinder casting seems to be suffering from
                                              some kind of metal rot. It seems solid enough, but large cracks are
                                              apparent all over it. The body is fine though.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Dale Smith
                                              > Pacifica, CA
                                              >
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2125 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                              As long as you add 90° grease zerks to the upper control arms when
                                              you have them out you'll be able to grease them so they won't squeek.

                                              But, then, it's 28 fittings to do my Ford.

                                              I suppose after 37 years of driving the same car it's okay to
                                              remember things like that.

                                              Had a guy call me up last night, asked if I wanted a '51
                                              DeSoto.....for those uninitiated, that's a Mopar....and I just told
                                              him to call 1-800-junkyard.
                                              Now, if that had been a Ford, it would have been one year NEWER than
                                              the one I drive.

                                              Never, ever saw an engine so sensitive about timing chain stretch as
                                              273/318/360, even the bigger ones had it.

                                              But, to keep it train related, these Varney Docksiders have
                                              outlasted all Datsuns.


                                              >
                                              > Hey John, No worries, I did not take it anyway but as good
                                              advice...
                                              >
                                              > I feel the same way about Mopar as you do about Ford! However
                                              the Hemi Cuda is rather nice... In the mid-70's my brother had a
                                              69.. Some guy ran a redlight... T boned him... Cracked the block and
                                              totaled the car...I was 5 or 6 at the time... I remember it sitting
                                              out in front of the house for a couple of weeks... I let all the air
                                              out of the tires.... Boy was my brother mad when he had to pump them
                                              up with one of those old foot pumps.... Sean
                                              >
                                              > John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                              > Gee, Sean, I feel bad enough about trying to tell an
                                              engineer how a
                                              > soldering iron works. Now you ask for advice concerning your
                                              vintage
                                              > Mustang. I did own a couple of them, an early 65 (64 1/2) and a
                                              66.
                                              > Rather enjoyed the 65, a 289 4 bbl 4spd notch back, but I am a
                                              died-
                                              > in-the-wool Mopar guy (at least so far as the muscle car era) so
                                              my
                                              > suggestion would be.... (message bleeped in the best interest of
                                              the
                                              > group).
                                              >
                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it
                                              > makes perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ.
                                              of
                                              > Pitt. earning my engineering degree tell me you are absolutely
                                              > correct. Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about
                                              > using such a large object to do detail work on the brass, but if
                                              you
                                              > say little Japanese women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too
                                              > big for them to lift, then I should be able to give it a
                                              go...Thank
                                              > you. I do believe now, I will be getting one of each. Right now, I
                                              > have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron that I use my map gas
                                              torch
                                              > to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long and 1/2 - 3/4 inch
                                              > thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I used it. I
                                              think
                                              > I would want an electric one for this type of work..
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can
                                              > use on my mustang I have pictured?
                                              > > Sean
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ---------------------------------
                                              > TV dinner still cooling?
                                              > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
                                              >
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2126 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/20/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                              I also have one of the Varney docksides. It runs nicely, but I can't pull anything with it, it has no couplers and I see no real convenient way to mount them.
                                               
                                              So what year/model of Ford have you been driving for the last 37 years?  I also had a Ford car once, it was a 1954 Ford convertible.
                                               
                                              Wobbly913

                                              curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                              As long as you add 90° grease zerks to the upper control arms when
                                              you have them out you'll be able to grease them so they won't squeek.

                                              But, then, it's 28 fittings to do my Ford.

                                              I suppose after 37 years of driving the same car it's okay to
                                              remember things like that.

                                              Had a guy call me up last night, asked if I wanted a '51
                                              DeSoto.....for those uninitiated, that's a Mopar....and I just told
                                              him to call 1-800-junkyard.
                                              Now, if that had been a Ford, it would have been one year NEWER than
                                              the one I drive.

                                              Never, ever saw an engine so sensitive about timing chain stretch as
                                              273/318/360, even the bigger ones had it.

                                              But, to keep it train related, these Varney Docksiders have
                                              outlasted all Datsuns.


                                              >
                                              > Hey John, No worries, I did not take it anyway but as good
                                              advice...
                                              >
                                              > I feel the same way about Mopar as you do about Ford! However
                                              the Hemi Cuda is rather nice... In the mid-70's my brother had a
                                              69.. Some guy ran a redlight... T boned him... Cracked the block and
                                              totaled the car...I was 5 or 6 at the time... I remember it sitting
                                              out in front of the house for a couple of weeks... I let all the air
                                              out of the tires.... Boy was my brother mad when he had to pump them
                                              up with one of those old foot pumps.... Sean
                                              >
                                              > John Hagen wrote:
                                              > Gee, Sean, I feel bad enough about trying to tell an
                                              engineer how a
                                              > soldering iron works. Now you ask for advice concerning your
                                              vintage
                                              > Mustang. I did own a couple of them, an early 65 (64 1/2) and a
                                              66.
                                              > Rather enjoyed the 65, a 289 4 bbl 4spd notch back, but I am a
                                              died-
                                              > in-the-wool Mopar guy (at least so far as the muscle car era) so
                                              my
                                              > suggestion would be.... (message bleeped in the best interest of
                                              the
                                              > group).
                                              >
                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor
                                              > wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it
                                              > makes perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ.
                                              of
                                              > Pitt. earning my engineering degree tell me you are absolutely
                                              > correct. Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about
                                              > using such a large object to do detail work on the brass, but if
                                              you
                                              > say little Japanese women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too
                                              > big for them to lift, then I should be able to give it a
                                              go...Thank
                                              > you. I do believe now, I will be getting one of each. Right now, I
                                              > have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron that I use my map gas
                                              torch
                                              > to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long and 1/2 - 3/4 inch
                                              > thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I used it. I
                                              think
                                              > I would want an electric one for this type of work..
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can
                                              > use on my mustang I have pictured?
                                              > > Sean
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ---------------------------------
                                              > TV dinner still cooling?
                                              > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
                                              >





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                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2127 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/21/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                              I was pondering on this.........

                                              I'd hope the front popped out of the boiler, for......

                                              What I'd do is get a wood dowel that was nearly the size of the
                                              inside.........

                                              For this, I think most any broom handle would be close.

                                              I'd want to put the boiler upside down on a wooden surface, like a
                                              scrap or a board........ mainly most any pine or one of the softer
                                              woods......... If the stack was impracticable to remove, I'd drill an
                                              oversized hole to pop that into, making certain that the hole was
                                              deeper than the stack was tall.

                                              The idea is to use the wood handle or stick along with firm, but
                                              brief taps of a hammer on that stick to gradually re-round the top of
                                              the boiler while the boiler is upside down......

                                              Do it by 'feel' and bring it back bit by bit instead of trying to
                                              make go swiftly.

                                              Best to ya'
                                              Mike Bauers
                                              Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                              On Jan 20, 2007, at 12:47 AM, curmudgeon wrote:

                                              > Be thankful you have something small to work with that has thin
                                              > brass.
                                              > I had to do a #1 gauge live-steamer that had happened to.
                                              >
                                              > Seems the tricks posted should do it.
                                              >
                                              > Is the stack open to the smokebox?
                                              > Possibly a small block of wood, a screw, nut and washer on top of
                                              > the screw, hole in the wood, inserted, and put a screwdriver down
                                              > the stack and back the screw out slowly against the washer.....
                                              >
                                              >>
                                              >> To Anyone who knows...
                                              >>
                                              >> I HAVE BEEN PICKING THROUGH MY BRASS... I HAVE IN MY HAND ONE
                                              > THAT
                                              >> WAS DROPPED (BEFORE I PURCHASED IT) THE SMOKE STACK WAS PUSHED
                                              > DOWN
                                              >> INTO THE SMOKE BOX, SQUASHING IT... THE COVER WAS ALSO POPPED OFF
                                              >>
                                              >> ...ANY IDEAS ABOUT STRAIGHTENING IT?
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2128 From: oahurailway Date: 1/21/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Ken,
                                              >
                                              > Thanks for the information on parts availability. While Delrin
                                              would be fine, I would really like to find a die cast cylinder assembly
                                              if that is even possible. I looked at your pictures more closely and
                                              you certainly have the valve gear covered and they all look pretty
                                              good. On the Bowser valve gear photo, are you using the Delrin
                                              cylinder? It looks a little different with a bit of a mold line down
                                              the middle. Do you know if the Central Valley gear is still available
                                              anywhere?
                                              >
                                              > Dale Smith
                                              > Pacifica, CA
                                              >
                                              > The Central Valley valve gear has been out of production for many
                                              years Dale. But occasionally they pop up on eBay eg.(#150078456397), as
                                              do the Varney "Docksiders" that you can use for parts. The new Bowser
                                              manufactured Delrin "Dockside" cylinder though is practically
                                              indestructable & retails for only $4.31, & yes the pic of
                                              the "Dockside" with the Bowser #3-217 valve gear kit in my 1941 Photo
                                              album also has the Bowser Delrin cylinder that's had the black base
                                              color painted. Good eye! Mold mark hadn't been dressed. The only
                                              problem with the Central Valley valve gear is that all the various rods
                                              must be riveted together with tiny rivets by the out of production Penn-
                                              Line rivet tool! However even that little tool makes it to eBay every
                                              so often. Ken
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2129 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
                                              Actually, the "lead rot" (my term) can help date the piece! It seems the
                                              worst years were around 1950-1954. For some reason during the Korean war
                                              good quality Zemac(sp?) (zinc/lead) was hard to find, and it was impurities
                                              in the metal that made it brittle. I had bought a THIRD Virginan hopper a
                                              few weeks ago on eBay, and when the seller went to pack it, the frame broke,
                                              so he sent me my money back.

                                              Don

                                              don.dellmann@...
                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                              Owner-Moderator
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
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                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: curmudgeon
                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 12:02 AM
                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear


                                              ZAMAC disintegration.
                                              Happens.
                                              Have you contacted Yardbird?
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2130 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                              >.----- Original Message -----
                                              >.From: sean naylor
                                              >...To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:36 PM
                                              >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Fix Me Please!


                                              >Hello John and Ray,

                                              >look... No Caps!

                                              >Sorry, I a not YELLING. It is a habit. I work using AutoCAD at least 2-4
                                              >days a week. Also... I list items "occasionally" on eBay... I tend to use
                                              >caps there as >well.

                                              Reminds me of the good old days back on Fidonet Trains (NOW I'm showing my
                                              age <G>). We had a guy who always typed caps, one day he was taken to task
                                              for shouting, turned out the poor fellow didn't have a choice, he was
                                              dialing up his BBS on a Timex Sinclair!

                                              >As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it makes
                                              >perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of Pitt.
                                              >earning my engineering >degree tell me you are absolutely correct.
                                              >Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about using such a large
                                              >object to do detail work on the brass, but if >you say little Japanese
                                              >women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too big for them to lift, then I
                                              >should be able to give it a go...Thank you. I do believe now, I will >be
                                              >getting one of each. Right now, I have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron
                                              >that I use my map gas torch to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long
                                              >and 1/2 - >3/4 inch thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I
                                              >used it. I think I would want an electric one for this type of work..

                                              I haven't seen one of the old irons since high school! We had a special
                                              little gas oven to heat them up in.

                                              >As for the 2-8-8-4, I have dozens of brass smoke box covers and one in
                                              >particular picked out that I will use... It needs a little working over to
                                              >fit properly. It is >just a matter of getting around to it.

                                              I hear Sears is having a sale on "roundtoits" this week.

                                              >Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can use on my
                                              >mustang I have pictured?
                                              >Sean

                                              Yeah, trade it for a '64 1/2! (and it's gotta be a ragtop) <G>

                                              A few years ago I almost talked myself into a '52 Studabaker pickup, it
                                              needed cosmetic work but mechanically it was a daily driver. Now I wish I'd
                                              taken it. I don't know if Jason is on this list (one fourth of our "Cream
                                              City Traction" club), but I know Mike Bauers is, and he can confirm, when we
                                              do shows (most notably "Trainfest" every year) our modules get transported
                                              in a '56 jimmy.

                                              Don

                                              don.dellmann@...
                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                              Owner-Moderator
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                              Co-moderator
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2131 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/21/2007
                                              Subject: Re: More cars running.
                                              Yup, I also like to RUN my vintage HO cars on my layout. In fact on one of
                                              the bigger Operational Layouts I run on, the owner has quite few (Monon)
                                              older Varney and Athearn metal cars. Unfortunately, these cars make it to
                                              the RIP track a lot more often than the newer ones. But, we don't give up,
                                              we keep patching them up as needed with new trucks or wheelsets. Sometimes
                                              it is a little more difficult to keep the Kadees on the older ones.

                                              Vic Bitleris
                                              Raleigh, NC



                                              ----Original Message Follows----
                                              From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                              Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More cars running.
                                              Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 22:15:47 -0600

                                              If it makes you happy, there are a couple cars on the layout with "k"s, and
                                              even one of my cabeese with the old MDC mechanical knuckles. :-)

                                              The operative word here in the group though is "operators". We don't just
                                              collect this stuff, we RUN it, and on my layout that means Kadees. (These
                                              cars came with Mantua loop & hooks). I also upgrade the trucks and
                                              wheelsets if necessary. For the time being these are running on the
                                              original Mantua trucks, but if they gibve trouble they WILL be swapped out
                                              with newer trucks. I also pride myself on the fact that there is not a
                                              plastic wheel on the layout with the possible exception of one or two
                                              insulated wheels on a locomotive or two.

                                              Don

                                              don.dellmann@...
                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                              Owner-Moderator
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                              Co-moderator
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY



                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Glenn Joesten
                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:28 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More cars running.



                                              But with Kadee couplers? and not even the old "K" series??gj
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Don Dellmann
                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:27 PM
                                              Subject: [vintageHO] More cars running.


                                              Got two more cars running out of the "junque" assortment.

                                              Both are 1940's Mantuas.

                                              Don

                                              don.dellmann@...
                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                              Owner-Moderator
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
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                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                              Valentine�s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
                                              http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2132 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                              Don...?
                                               
                                              TRADE?????      NEVER!!!          Now I am yelling!
                                               
                                              Have you seen my Handle?
                                              This is my dream car... A 69 Fastback Mustang, with at least a 302, power steering, power disc brakes, nine inch rear end and air conditioning. Did I mention this is what I have?
                                               
                                              I had a 1946 GMC Panel truck when I was in highschool. It had a in line 6, a crank, a starter peddal, a hood which folded from the sides and vacume powered wipers, among many other interesting features...
                                               
                                              I love the LiL Joe Docksiders though...
                                              Sean 
                                               
                                               


                                              Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                              >.----- Original Message -----
                                              >.From: sean naylor
                                              >...To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                              >Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:36 PM
                                              >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Fix Me Please!

                                              >Hello John and Ray,

                                              >look... No Caps!

                                              >Sorry, I a not YELLING. It is a habit. I work using AutoCAD at least 2-4
                                              >days a week. Also... I list items "occasionally" on eBay... I tend to use
                                              >caps there as >well.

                                              Reminds me of the good old days back on Fidonet Trains (NOW I'm showing my
                                              age <G>). We had a guy who always typed caps, one day he was taken to task
                                              for shouting, turned out the poor fellow didn't have a choice, he was
                                              dialing up his BBS on a Timex Sinclair!

                                              >As for the iron / gun difference, I understand completely and it makes
                                              >perfect sence. The three years of physics I took a the Univ. of Pitt.
                                              >earning my engineering >degree tell me you are absolutely correct.
                                              >Thankyou. I had previously thought the same thing about using such a large
                                              >object to do detail work on the brass, but if >you say little Japanese
                                              >women did it in the 60's with a huge iron, too big for them to lift, then I
                                              >should be able to give it a go...Thank you. I do believe now, I will >be
                                              >getting one of each. Right now, I have a gun, a small iron, and an old iron
                                              >that I use my map gas torch to heat up - (heavy with a tip 3 - 4 inch long
                                              >and 1/2 - >3/4 inch thick). I used it for tin gutter patch work, when I
                                              >used it. I think I would want an electric one for this type of work..

                                              I haven't seen one of the old irons since high school! We had a special
                                              little gas oven to heat them up in.

                                              >As for the 2-8-8-4, I have dozens of brass smoke box covers and one in
                                              >particular picked out that I will use... It needs a little working over to
                                              >fit properly. It is >just a matter of getting around to it.

                                              I hear Sears is having a sale on "roundtoits" this week.

                                              >Thanks so much for the advice. Do you guys have any advice I can use on my
                                              >mustang I have pictured?
                                              >Sean

                                              Yeah, trade it for a '64 1/2! (and it's gotta be a ragtop) <G>

                                              A few years ago I almost talked myself into a '52 Studabaker pickup, it
                                              needed cosmetic work but mechanically it was a daily driver. Now I wish I'd
                                              taken it. I don't know if Jason is on this list (one fourth of our "Cream
                                              City Traction" club), but I know Mike Bauers is, and he can confirm, when we
                                              do shows (most notably "Trainfest" every year) our modules get transported
                                              in a '56 jimmy.

                                              Don

                                              don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                              http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                              Owner-Moderator
                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                              Co-moderator
                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY



                                              Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2133 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
                                              Subject: Re: Skeleton Log Car Plans
                                              Hey Tom,
                                              I have plans for an early globe style Logging Disconnect (logging cars that were basicly trucks with one beam to rest the logs on - obviously you need two of them to haul a log), a Pacific Coast Logging: Comox Log unloader, a boom boat (both are for a more modern operation), an incline tanke car designed to handle the steep grades found on a logging operation, a logging - Company Dining Hall - kind of like a portable mess hall, and a loggig caboose... and a steam powered log loader.  I pulled all these from magazines. I keep them in a file bin under logging... I may have more in the 3-4 foot tall stack of mags I have yet to go through... almost all from the 60's - 40's
                                              I will quickly look through them today to see if I have anything...
                                              Sean

                                              Tom <jodanjackkayla@...> wrote:
                                              Hi,I am looking for some plans to scratchbuild some skelaton log cars.
                                              Do any of you have any plans you could send or know where I can find
                                              some plans online. Thanks, Tom



                                              Need Mail bonding?
                                              Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2134 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                              Subject: More Junque
                                              Attachments :
                                                Got two more done last night & this morning.

                                                The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was another
                                                Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof & floor,
                                                cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends puzzle
                                                me a bit.

                                                The UTLX tank is another Manutua, the mate to the Deep Rock car I got from
                                                Jack a couple weeks ago.

                                                Remember I said in this box there was a Mantua Booster that wasn't even
                                                shown in the original auction? After I figured out the goofy wiring (it has
                                                a PLASTIC frame, there's brass saddles that the axles ride in, each axle has
                                                one brass and one plastic driver. The rear is connected to the motor via
                                                the motor mounting screw, the other connects to the screw that holds the
                                                boiler on, then there's a wire from the boiler casting to the motor) the
                                                d*mn thing runs.! Actually, for only picking up on one wheel each side, it
                                                runs pretty darn well! No pics yet, it's in paint, needs couplers and
                                                decals (Kadee No. 4's will fit).

                                                Don

                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                Owner-Moderator
                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                Co-moderator
                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2135 From: John Hagen Date: 1/21/2007
                                                Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                                Sean, all in fun. One thing I learned is to never seriously insult a
                                                guys wife, automobile or locomotives.

                                                Speaking of locomotives (Better get back on subjet or we'll incur the
                                                wrath of Don), your projects seem to involve switchers or articulateds.
                                                Interesting mix. Nice job on the Mantus 2-4-4T. I see you also have a
                                                Mantua 0-4-0 (thats the Shifter, the 0-4-0T was the Booster) complete
                                                with valve gear. How does it run? My brother got one of those back
                                                in '49 or '48. It ran, well, ok for the time without the valve gear,
                                                which was extra, but after he and dad put one on, they could never get
                                                it to run worth do-do. Finally had to take it off. I got a Mantua
                                                Mikado for Christmas in '49 or '50. I was a bit young so dad helped a
                                                LOT in putting it together. It ran pretty good. I had that engine for
                                                many years before being dumb enough to totally taske it apart for
                                                superdetailing, a projet that never got done. The pieces were sold
                                                during during the earlier years of being married with young children,
                                                no free time and needing cash. It was a real early example, all diecast
                                                including the cab, diecast tender with 4 wheel trucks and a really
                                                neat, self-aligning box for the worm. It had a rubber drive shaft with
                                                metal ends. The ends of the motor and worm shafts were groung to a half-
                                                round configuration and the metal drive shaft ends had half-round holes
                                                so it would slide onto the shafts. While the rubber tube, which had no
                                                curvature to it, was an interference fit on it's ends, the whole
                                                assembly was free to slide on the motor and worm shafts. It also had a
                                                quite large open-frame motor. I can't remember the model but I think it
                                                was a DC-70? 71? Anyway, it was a lot bigger than the motor used in the
                                                later TYCO years with the worm on the motor shaft. Ran a lot better
                                                too. It was a good puller although not as good as my brothers Varney
                                                all diecast, 8 wheel drive with metal spur gears F3. He also had a
                                                Lindsey brass diecast switcher, NW2 I think. Their power truck was a
                                                real sweet runner. Self contained with a flywheel, it was soooo smooth
                                                and would just creep along ever so slowly. Only, with only 4 wheels
                                                driven it couldn't pull didley and at 12 volts would probably outrun a
                                                Hustler!

                                                John Hagen

                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hey John, No worries, I did not take it anyway but as good advice...
                                                >
                                                > I feel the same way about Mopar as you do about Ford! However the
                                                Hemi Cuda is rather nice... In the mid-70's my brother had a 69.. Some
                                                guy ran a redlight... T boned him... Cracked the block and totaled the
                                                car...I was 5 or 6 at the time... I remember it sitting out in front of
                                                the house for a couple of weeks... I let all the air out of the
                                                tires.... Boy was my brother mad when he had to pump them up with one
                                                of those old foot pumps.... Sean
                                                >
                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2136 From: John Hagen Date: 1/21/2007
                                                Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                He (my brother) also had a
                                                > Lindsey brass diecast switcher, NW2 I think. Their power truck was a
                                                > real sweet runner. Self contained with a flywheel, it was soooo
                                                smooth
                                                > and would just creep along ever so slowly. Only, with only 4 wheels
                                                > driven it couldn't pull didley and at 12 volts would probably outrun
                                                a
                                                > Hustler!

                                                Replying to one's own post. Just shows what old age does to ya. Wanted
                                                to mention that the Lindsey power truck also was fully equalized. The
                                                shell was nicely detailed. And they didn't decompose. I do agree that
                                                there seems to be a certain era of production that had the rotting
                                                zamac problem. I remember back in the 80's, I think the 80's, I had
                                                gone through a lot of trouble to accquire a few diecast Hobbytown ALCO
                                                FA shells only to have them start turning into powder a couple of years
                                                later. Tick me off.
                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2137 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
                                                Subject: Re: Fix Me Please!
                                                No worries John, No insult here...
                                                The 2-4-4T I picked up about 2.5 years ago and fell in love with it right away... It came in a shifter box which was and still is in a slightly larger box with all the parts he plan to use. It even included the valve gear. The rear truck I threw on, because the one he had had the impurity desease. It fell apart. It was a neat looking truck.. I would love to find another to keep the guys original dream as intact as I can. I would like to finish it and hopfully make the guy happy. He has probabably passed on by now. The only thing I have borrowed from this box is a couple of turned brass handrail stantions. I have since found my stash... Maybe I can post a pic of the truck and if anyone has one that is complete, we can work out a trade...I saved the pieces..
                                                 
                                                As for the other 0-4-0, I put it together... It came with a bunch of other stuff... Actually, I started from the bare metal unbuilt kit. That was missing parts including EVERYTHING but the chassis/frame and the boiler. I pulled everything else from my vast scrap pile. I even filed off all the casting flashing around all the molded edges, using a jewlers file. The valve gear I found last week on a junk loco I had in a box of mantua switchers. Ipurchased on off of yardbird the day before, hasn't come yet, but it will go on my next project.  It runs like a champ. The tender I also pulled from that box. It has a working tender light and head light. The wires you see plug into each other to power the tender light and can be unplugged to remove the tender for paint or repair.
                                                 
                                                I think in my stash I have one Mikado simular if not the same as you have described. I know I have seen one with a simular driveshaft and a gearbox, I am not sure about the larger motor.
                                                 
                                                Later!
                                                Sean

                                                John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                Sean, all in fun. One thing I learned is to never seriously insult a
                                                guys wife, automobile or locomotives.

                                                Speaking of locomotives (Better get back on subjet or we'll incur the
                                                wrath of Don), your projects seem to involve switchers or articulateds.
                                                Interesting mix. Nice job on the Mantus 2-4-4T. I see you also have a
                                                Mantua 0-4-0 (thats the Shifter, the 0-4-0T was the Booster) complete
                                                with valve gear. How does it run? My brother got one of those back
                                                in '49 or '48. It ran, well, ok for the time without the valve gear,
                                                which was extra, but after he and dad put one on, they could never get
                                                it to run worth do-do. Finally had to take it off. I got a Mantua
                                                Mikado for Christmas in '49 or '50. I was a bit young so dad helped a
                                                LOT in putting it together. It ran pretty good. I had that engine for
                                                many years before being dumb enough to totally taske it apart for
                                                superdetailing, a projet that never got done. The pieces were sold
                                                during during the earlier years of being married with young children,
                                                no free time and needing cash. It was a real early example, all diecast
                                                including the cab, diecast tender with 4 wheel trucks and a really
                                                neat, self-aligning box for the worm. It had a rubber drive shaft with
                                                metal ends. The ends of the motor and worm shafts were groung to a half-
                                                round configuration and the metal drive shaft ends had half-round holes
                                                so it would slide onto the shafts. While the rubber tube, which had no
                                                curvature to it, was an interference fit on it's ends, the whole
                                                assembly was free to slide on the motor and worm shafts. It also had a
                                                quite large open-frame motor. I can't remember the model but I think it
                                                was a DC-70? 71? Anyway, it was a lot bigger than the motor used in the
                                                later TYCO years with the worm on the motor shaft. Ran a lot better
                                                too. It was a good puller although not as good as my brothers Varney
                                                all diecast, 8 wheel drive with metal spur gears F3. He also had a
                                                Lindsey brass diecast switcher, NW2 I think. Their power truck was a
                                                real sweet runner. Self contained with a flywheel, it was soooo smooth
                                                and would just creep along ever so slowly. Only, with only 4 wheels
                                                driven it couldn't pull didley and at 12 volts would probably outrun a
                                                Hustler!

                                                John Hagen

                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hey John, No worries, I did not take it anyway but as good advice...
                                                >
                                                > I feel the same way about Mopar as you do about Ford! However the
                                                Hemi Cuda is rather nice... In the mid-70's my brother had a 69.. Some
                                                guy ran a redlight... T boned him... Cracked the block and totaled the
                                                car...I was 5 or 6 at the time... I remember it sitting out in front of
                                                the house for a couple of weeks... I let all the air out of the
                                                tires.... Boy was my brother mad when he had to pump them up with one
                                                of those old foot pumps.... Sean
                                                >



                                                Don't pick lemons.
                                                See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2138 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/21/2007
                                                Subject: Re: More Junque
                                                Attachments :
                                                  Don D and list: What are the initials and number of the Santa Fe Reefer
                                                  with the cardstock sides? Sometiimes it is possible to trace the
                                                  heritage of an old production model, from that. Does sound like a kit
                                                  that is comprised of parts from two or more manufacturers.
                                                  Once built, I make up a 3 x 5 index card with all pertinent information
                                                  about it. On the backside, I list all maintenance and rebuilding
                                                  records, by date accomplished. I must really get around to cataloging
                                                  those which remain in boxes, unbuilt. Includes many Varney items.

                                                  I did find an unbuilt Megow hopper car, B&O as I recall. This is the
                                                  kit that they featured in their advertising way back in the 1930's.
                                                  Should be worth something, today. Includes the original box.

                                                  Cheers.... Don L.
                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2139 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: More Junque
                                                  A Booster like yours was my first H-0 locomotive, actually it was a set
                                                  that included two diecast flatcars, a fourwheel caboose with a metal
                                                  underframe and plastic body, six 18" pieces of brass flextrack and a
                                                  cardboard tube that held D cell batteries. All were in kit form. One
                                                  story I heard that the nylon frame was to conserve metal during the
                                                  Korean police action. I bought the set in early 1954. Roger Aultman





                                                  Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                  > Got two more done last night & this morning.
                                                  >
                                                  > The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was another
                                                  > Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof & floor,
                                                  > cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends puzzle
                                                  > me a bit.
                                                  >
                                                  > The UTLX tank is another Manutua, the mate to the Deep Rock car I got from
                                                  > Jack a couple weeks ago.
                                                  >
                                                  > Remember I said in this box there was a Mantua Booster that wasn't even
                                                  > shown in the original auction? After I figured out the goofy wiring (it has
                                                  > a PLASTIC frame, there's brass saddles that the axles ride in, each axle has
                                                  > one brass and one plastic driver. The rear is connected to the motor via
                                                  > the motor mounting screw, the other connects to the screw that holds the
                                                  > boiler on, then there's a wire from the boiler casting to the motor) the
                                                  > d*mn thing runs.! Actually, for only picking up on one wheel each side, it
                                                  > runs pretty darn well! No pics yet, it's in paint, needs couplers and
                                                  > decals (Kadee No. 4's will fit).
                                                  >
                                                  > Don
                                                  >
                                                  > don.dellmann@...
                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                  > Owner-Moderator
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                  > Co-moderator
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  >


                                                  --
                                                  http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2140 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: More Junque
                                                  That sure helps date it.  There were two of the die cast flats in the box too, but no w wheel caboose (although I do have several of them).
                                                   
                                                  Don
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:22 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Junque


                                                  A Booster like yours was my first H-0 locomotive, actually it was a set
                                                  that included two diecast flatcars, a fourwheel caboose with a metal
                                                  underframe and plastic body, six 18" pieces of brass flextrack and a
                                                  cardboard tube that held D cell batteries. All were in kit form. One
                                                  story I heard that the nylon frame was to conserve metal during the
                                                  Korean police action. I bought the set in early 1954. Roger Aultman

                                                  Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                  > Got two more done last night & this morning.
                                                  >
                                                  > The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was another
                                                  > Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof & floor,
                                                  > cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends puzzle
                                                  > me a bit.
                                                  >
                                                  > The UTLX tank is another Manutua, the mate to the Deep Rock car I got from
                                                  > Jack a couple weeks ago.
                                                  >
                                                  > Remember I said in this box there was a Mantua Booster that wasn't even
                                                  > shown in the original auction? After I figured out the goofy wiring (it has
                                                  > a PLASTIC frame, there's brass saddles that the axles ride in, each axle has
                                                  > one brass and one plastic driver. The rear is connected to the motor via
                                                  > the motor mounting screw, the other connects to the screw that holds the
                                                  > boiler on, then there's a wire from the boiler casting to the motor) the
                                                  > d*mn thing runs.! Actually, for only picking up on one wheel each side, it
                                                  > runs pretty darn well! No pics yet, it's in paint, needs couplers and
                                                  > decals (Kadee No. 4's will fit).
                                                  >
                                                  > Don
                                                  >
                                                  > don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                  > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                  > Owner-Moderator
                                                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                  > Co-moderator
                                                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                  >

                                                  --
                                                  http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                                                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2141 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: More Junque
                                                  SFRD 21882.  One side features the map, the other side is "Scout" lettering.
                                                   
                                                  Don
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:57 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Junque

                                                  Don D and list: What are the initials and number of the Santa Fe Reefer
                                                  with the cardstock sides? Sometiimes it is possible to trace the
                                                  heritage of an old production model, from that. Does sound like a kit
                                                  that is comprised of parts from two or more manufacturers.
                                                  Once built, I make up a 3 x 5 index card with all pertinent information
                                                  about it. On the backside, I list all maintenance and rebuilding
                                                  records, by date accomplished. I must really get around to cataloging
                                                  those which remain in boxes, unbuilt. Includes many Varney items.

                                                  I did find an unbuilt Megow hopper car, B&O as I recall. This is the
                                                  kit that they featured in their advertising way back in the 1930's.
                                                  Should be worth something, today. Includes the original box.

                                                  Cheers.... Don L.

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2142 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  You might be surprised to know this is still a problem and in the last
                                                  couple of years Bachmann has had to give some customers replacements for
                                                  locos made in China that incorporate Mazak/Zamak chasssis frames. The
                                                  problem is indeed impurities and you may be interested in the following.

                                                  'Mazak Disease', known to German modellers as the 'Zinkpest' (zinc
                                                  pestilence), relates to Mazak (also known as Zamak, pot metal, muck metal
                                                  and monkey metal), a carefully formulated alloy of zinc, magnesium and
                                                  copper. Mazak has been used widely since the 1930s not only for models and
                                                  toys but also for making engineering components, such as clock, telephone
                                                  and radio parts.
                                                  Back in the 1950s and 1960s it was used by all model railway manufacturers
                                                  for chassis and underframes, whilst Trix and Hornby Dublo also used it for
                                                  locomotive bodies, buildings and so on. Bachmann uses Mazak today for
                                                  chassis and other components, and no doubt other manufacturers do as well.

                                                  The material is rigid and robust, whilst it can also take fine detail,
                                                  making it ideal for die-casting. There are many castings dating back to the
                                                  1930s that are as good as the day they were made, and if Mazak were truly as
                                                  awful as some people say, it would never have been used. But (and it's a big
                                                  'but') the purity of the metal used is crucial.

                                                  Put another way, the critical factor in its successful survival is the care
                                                  originally taken in the precise mixing of the metals that went into Mazak.
                                                  Get it right and your Mazak should last forever. In reality the quality
                                                  control was not perfect in the past and it appears that Bachmann's
                                                  contractors in China may well be learning this lesson afresh.
                                                  A chap who many years ago worked for a die-casting firm told me that when
                                                  the workmen took their smoking breaks, they used to throw the silver paper
                                                  from their cigarette packets into the ingots 'to add grist to the mill'. If
                                                  true, this aluminium foil and paper of course added impurities, destroying
                                                  the careful balance of ingredients. The nett result is the Mazak disease
                                                  that modellers and collectors dread (it's known technically as intergranular
                                                  corrosion). This can take as long as 30 to 50 years to appear or as little
                                                  as 12 months. It turns the metal dry and brittle, often with a white,
                                                  powdery feel, or else badly distorted.

                                                  Under these circumstances there is very little you can do. Bachmann does at
                                                  least recognise the problem and has offered replacements to customers who
                                                  complain. Never attempt to straighten a Mazak casting by bending or pounding
                                                  it back to shape; it will almost certainly break into many pieces. Repairing
                                                  affected parts is seldom possible. Broken parts can sometimes be joined
                                                  using cyanoacrylate glue (Superglue) or epoxy resin (Araldite and
                                                  equivalents), although the repaired items may not be able to stand much
                                                  mechanical stress.
                                                  Soldering is possible with special fluxes or paste solders (Solder-It paste
                                                  in the USA) but is not recommended. For vintage models in the 'collector's
                                                  item' category whitemetal reproduction parts are available in some cases.

                                                  There is a widely held misconception that Mazak is inherently defective and
                                                  prone to rotting. This is categorically not the case, even if this is little
                                                  comfort to people with diseased or damaged models!
                                                  The name ZAMAK is an acronym of the German names for the alloy's components:
                                                  Z for Zinc, A for Aluminium, MA for magnesium and K for Kupfer (copper).
                                                  Other trade names are ZAMAC and MAZAK.
                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2143 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  It doesn't surprise me at all that is happening to the new $150 paperweights. 
                                                   
                                                  Just one MORE reason why I love the vintage stuff.
                                                   
                                                  Don
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 1:30 PM
                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"



                                                  You might be surprised to know this is still a problem and in the last
                                                  couple of years Bachmann has had to give some customers replacements for
                                                  locos made in China that incorporate Mazak/Zamak chasssis frames. The
                                                  problem is indeed impurities and you may be interested in the following.

                                                  'Mazak Disease', known to German modellers as the 'Zinkpest' (zinc
                                                  pestilence), relates to Mazak (also known as Zamak, pot metal, muck metal
                                                  and monkey metal), a carefully formulated alloy of zinc, magnesium and
                                                  copper. Mazak has been used widely since the 1930s not only for models and
                                                  toys but also for making engineering components, such as clock, telephone
                                                  and radio parts.
                                                  Back in the 1950s and 1960s it was used by all model railway manufacturers
                                                  for chassis and underframes, whilst Trix and Hornby Dublo also used it for
                                                  locomotive bodies, buildings and so on. Bachmann uses Mazak today for
                                                  chassis and other components, and no doubt other manufacturers do as well.

                                                  The material is rigid and robust, whilst it can also take fine detail,
                                                  making it ideal for die-casting. There are many castings dating back to the
                                                  1930s that are as good as the day they were made, and if Mazak were truly as
                                                  awful as some people say, it would never have been used. But (and it's a big
                                                  'but') the purity of the metal used is crucial.

                                                  Put another way, the critical factor in its successful survival is the care
                                                  originally taken in the precise mixing of the metals that went into Mazak.
                                                  Get it right and your Mazak should last forever. In reality the quality
                                                  control was not perfect in the past and it appears that Bachmann's
                                                  contractors in China may well be learning this lesson afresh.
                                                  A chap who many years ago worked for a die-casting firm told me that when
                                                  the workmen took their smoking breaks, they used to throw the silver paper
                                                  from their cigarette packets into the ingots 'to add grist to the mill'. If
                                                  true, this aluminium foil and paper of course added impurities, destroying
                                                  the careful balance of ingredients. The nett result is the Mazak disease
                                                  that modellers and collectors dread (it's known technically as intergranular
                                                  corrosion). This can take as long as 30 to 50 years to appear or as little
                                                  as 12 months. It turns the metal dry and brittle, often with a white,
                                                  powdery feel, or else badly distorted.

                                                  Under these circumstances there is very little you can do. Bachmann does at
                                                  least recognise the problem and has offered replacements to customers who
                                                  complain. Never attempt to straighten a Mazak casting by bending or pounding
                                                  it back to shape; it will almost certainly break into many pieces. Repairing
                                                  affected parts is seldom possible. Broken parts can sometimes be joined
                                                  using cyanoacrylate glue (Superglue) or epoxy resin (Araldite and
                                                  equivalents) , although the repaired items may not be able to stand much
                                                  mechanical stress.
                                                  Soldering is possible with special fluxes or paste solders (Solder-It paste
                                                  in the USA) but is not recommended. For vintage models in the 'collector's
                                                  item' category whitemetal reproduction parts are available in some cases.

                                                  There is a widely held misconception that Mazak is inherently defective and
                                                  prone to rotting. This is categorically not the case, even if this is little
                                                  comfort to people with diseased or damaged models!
                                                  The name ZAMAK is an acronym of the German names for the alloy's components:
                                                  Z for Zinc, A for Aluminium, MA for magnesium and K for Kupfer (copper).
                                                  Other trade names are ZAMAC and MAZAK.

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2144 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is.....
                                                  Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.

                                                  You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                  There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                  due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together
                                                  my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)"

                                                  Loren

                                                  _________________________________________________________________
                                                  Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
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                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2145 From: Tom Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: Skeleton Log Car Plans
                                                  Thanks Sean, I would be interested in the plans for the steam
                                                  powered loader. The road I am going to model though used the
                                                  skeletons, not the disconnects. Thanks a lot. Tom



                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Hey Tom,
                                                  > I have plans for an early globe style Logging Disconnect (logging
                                                  cars that were basicly trucks with one beam to rest the logs on -
                                                  obviously you need two of them to haul a log), a Pacific Coast
                                                  Logging: Comox Log unloader, a boom boat (both are for a more modern
                                                  operation), an incline tanke car designed to handle the steep grades
                                                  found on a logging operation, a logging - Company Dining Hall - kind
                                                  of like a portable mess hall, and a loggig caboose... and a steam
                                                  powered log loader. I pulled all these from magazines. I keep them
                                                  in a file bin under logging... I may have more in the 3-4 foot tall
                                                  stack of mags I have yet to go through... almost all from the 60's -
                                                  40's
                                                  > I will quickly look through them today to see if I have
                                                  anything...
                                                  > Sean
                                                  >
                                                  > Tom <jodanjackkayla@...> wrote:
                                                  > Hi,I am looking for some plans to scratchbuild some
                                                  skelaton log cars.
                                                  > Do any of you have any plans you could send or know where I can
                                                  find
                                                  > some plans online. Thanks, Tom
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                  > Need Mail bonding?
                                                  > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
                                                  >
                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2146 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  And with the prices some collector's are paying for "vintage" stuff.
                                                  I guess the difference is you can have 3 - $50 "vintage" paperweight's
                                                  instead of 1 - $150 new paperweight..............:-)

                                                  Loren

                                                  _________________________________________________________________
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                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2147 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  Ah but Don, some of the "vintage" stuff has the same
                                                  problems..............:-)

                                                  Loren

                                                  _________________________________________________________________
                                                  Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your
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                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2148 From: Askerberg Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: My stuff posted
                                                  I have posted two versions of the same photo in the files section
                                                  under AA - Al's vintage stuff. The photo features a Highball combine
                                                  that I picked up at a recent swap meet in kit form. I assembled it
                                                  for use as a crew car on our club layout logging branch. I believe
                                                  the car was manufactured by Model Engineering Works, makers of the
                                                  die cast Grasse River caboose and log buggies.

                                                  The combine was rather frustrating to assemble and certainly makes me
                                                  appreciative of the fine equipment we have available these days. The
                                                  roof and ends are a single casting, and the ends are slightly splayed
                                                  outward at the bottoms. I have another partial kit, and that casting
                                                  has the same fault. Otherwise, the kit as very well engineered.

                                                  The box car is a fine and well-assembled wood kit of unknown lineage
                                                  that I also picked up at a swap meet many years ago. If anyone knows
                                                  what it is, I'd be curious to learn.

                                                  The locomotive is the Mantua Mogul, a locomotive that I always wanted
                                                  as a kid and only recently picked up at a swap meet. It is not
                                                  running at the moment, but it is in good condition needing only a
                                                  little tuning.

                                                  The first photo is in color, and the second photo is monochrome
                                                  showing the train as we would have been more likely to see it
                                                  published back in the '50s.

                                                  I hope it brings back some fond memories

                                                  Regards,

                                                  Al Askerberg
                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2149 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] My stuff posted

                                                  Al,

                                                   

                                                  Could that box car be a Central Valley .  I only built one CV and it was a reefer with plug doors that did not open, so I would not know if their box car doors did open.  At my link below there are some photos of Rail Chief Passenger car shells.  Don thought some may want to see them.  I just joined this group today and have been enjoying all of the photos.

                                                   

                                                  Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

                                                   


                                                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Askerberg
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:38 PM
                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] My stuff posted

                                                   

                                                  I have posted two versions of the same photo in the files section
                                                  under AA - Al's vintage stuff. The photo features a Highball combine
                                                  that I picked up at a recent swap meet in kit form. I assembled it
                                                  for use as a crew car on our club layout logging branch. I believe
                                                  the car was manufactured by Model Engineering Works, makers of the
                                                  die cast Grasse River caboose and log buggies.

                                                  The combine was rather frustrating to assemble and certainly makes me
                                                  appreciative of the fine equipment we have available these days. The
                                                  roof and ends are a single casting, and the ends are slightly splayed
                                                  outward at the bottoms. I have another partial kit, and that casting
                                                  has the same fault. Otherwise, the kit as very well engineered.

                                                  The box car is a fine and well-assembled wood kit of unknown lineage
                                                  that I also picked up at a swap meet many years ago. If anyone knows
                                                  what it is, I'd be curious to learn.

                                                  The locomotive is the Mantua Mogul, a locomotive that I always wanted
                                                  as a kid and only recently picked up at a swap meet. It is not
                                                  running at the moment, but it is in good condition needing only a
                                                  little tuning.

                                                  The first photo is in color, and the second photo is monochrome
                                                  showing the train as we would have been more likely to see it
                                                  published back in the '50s.

                                                  I hope it brings back some fond memories

                                                  Regards,

                                                  Al Askerberg

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2150 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem
                                                  was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and
                                                  a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was,
                                                  but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney
                                                  that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua
                                                  did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally
                                                  seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua.

                                                  Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                  Raleigh, NC



                                                  ----Original Message Follows----
                                                  From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                                                  Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800

                                                  I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is.....
                                                  Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.

                                                  You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                  There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                  due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together
                                                  my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)"

                                                  Loren

                                                  _________________________________________________________________
                                                  Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
                                                  Spaces
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                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2151 From: John Hagen Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: My stuff posted
                                                  Nice photos Al. And the B & W sure does capture the feel of photos
                                                  from an earlier era. Neat.

                                                  -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Askerberg <aiberg@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I have posted two versions of the same photo in the files section
                                                  > under AA - Al's vintage stuff. The photo features a Highball
                                                  combine
                                                  > that I picked up at a recent swap meet in kit form. I assembled it
                                                  > for use as a crew car on our club layout logging branch. I believe
                                                  > the car was manufactured by Model Engineering Works, makers of the
                                                  > die cast Grasse River caboose and log buggies.
                                                  >
                                                  > The combine was rather frustrating to assemble and certainly makes
                                                  me
                                                  > appreciative of the fine equipment we have available these days.
                                                  The
                                                  > roof and ends are a single casting, and the ends are slightly
                                                  splayed
                                                  > outward at the bottoms. I have another partial kit, and that
                                                  casting
                                                  > has the same fault. Otherwise, the kit as very well engineered.
                                                  >
                                                  > The box car is a fine and well-assembled wood kit of unknown
                                                  lineage
                                                  > that I also picked up at a swap meet many years ago. If anyone
                                                  knows
                                                  > what it is, I'd be curious to learn.
                                                  >
                                                  > The locomotive is the Mantua Mogul, a locomotive that I always
                                                  wanted
                                                  > as a kid and only recently picked up at a swap meet. It is not
                                                  > running at the moment, but it is in good condition needing only a
                                                  > little tuning.
                                                  >
                                                  > The first photo is in color, and the second photo is monochrome
                                                  > showing the train as we would have been more likely to see it
                                                  > published back in the '50s.
                                                  >
                                                  > I hope it brings back some fond memories
                                                  >
                                                  > Regards,
                                                  >
                                                  > Al Askerberg
                                                  >
                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2152 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                  Vic,

                                                   

                                                  I had a problem with one or two Penn Line items, the zamac just broke apart. 

                                                   

                                                  Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

                                                   


                                                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:47 PM
                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                   

                                                  I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem
                                                  was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and
                                                  a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was,
                                                  but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney
                                                  that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua
                                                  did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally
                                                  seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua .

                                                  Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                  Raleigh , NC

                                                  ----Original Message Follows----
                                                  From: " Salt&Pepper Whoknows " <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                  Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800

                                                  I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is.....
                                                  Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.

                                                  You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                  There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                  due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together
                                                  my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"

                                                  Loren

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
                                                  Spaces
                                                  http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your
                                                  Live.com page.
                                                  http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2153 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  But your chances of repairing the three $50 pieces is a lot better.
                                                   
                                                  Don
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:10 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                  And with the prices some collector's are paying for "vintage" stuff.
                                                  I guess the difference is you can have 3 - $50 "vintage" paperweight' s
                                                  instead of 1 - $150 new paperweight. ......... ....:-)

                                                  Loren

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger
                                                  http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwme00200000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://imagine- msn.com/messenge r/launch80/ default.aspx? locale=en- us&source= hmtagline

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2154 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  But you know what you're getting into.  You're also not being sold a bill of goods by the manufacturer's pushing the latest overpriced "state of the art" model.
                                                   
                                                  Don
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:08 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                  Ah but Don, some of the "vintage" stuff has the same
                                                  problems.... ......... .:-)

                                                  Loren

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your
                                                  Live.com page.
                                                  http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2155 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                   
                                                  Don
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                  I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem
                                                  was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and
                                                  a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was,
                                                  but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney
                                                  that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua
                                                  did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally
                                                  seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua.

                                                  Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                  Raleigh, NC

                                                  ----Original Message Follows----
                                                  From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                  Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800

                                                  I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is.....
                                                  Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.

                                                  You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                  There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                  due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together
                                                  my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"

                                                  Loren

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
                                                  Spaces
                                                  http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your
                                                  Live.com page.
                                                  http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2156 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: More Junque
                                                  Don........

                                                  It sure could be that the reefer is a Howell Day - Red Ball kit.

                                                  Best to ya'
                                                  Mike Bauers
                                                  Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                  On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                  > Got two more done last night & this morning.
                                                  >
                                                  > The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was
                                                  > another
                                                  > Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof &
                                                  > floor,
                                                  > cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends
                                                  > puzzle
                                                  > me a bit.
                                                  ..............
                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2157 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. 
                                                   
                                                  Wobbly913

                                                  Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                  I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                   
                                                  Don
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                  I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem
                                                  was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and
                                                  a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was,
                                                  but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney
                                                  that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua
                                                  did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally
                                                  seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua.

                                                  Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                  Raleigh, NC

                                                  ----Original Message Follows----
                                                  From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                  Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800

                                                  I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is.....
                                                  Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.

                                                  You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                  There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                  due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together
                                                  my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"

                                                  Loren

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
                                                  Spaces
                                                  http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your
                                                  Live.com page.
                                                  http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701



                                                  Never Miss an Email
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                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2158 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  I second that!
                                                   
                                                  Sean

                                                  Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                  I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums. 
                                                   
                                                  Wobbly913

                                                  Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                  I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                   
                                                  Don
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                  I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem
                                                  was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and
                                                  a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was,
                                                  but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney
                                                  that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua
                                                  did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally
                                                  seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua.

                                                  Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                  Raleigh, NC

                                                  ----Original Message Follows----
                                                  From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                  Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800

                                                  I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is.....
                                                  Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.

                                                  You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                  There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                  due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together
                                                  my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"

                                                  Loren

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
                                                  Spaces
                                                  http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your
                                                  Live.com page.
                                                  http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701



                                                  Never Miss an Email
                                                  Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!


                                                  We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                  (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2159 From: ANDREW A GIRARD JR Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast bolster/coupler
                                                  pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that have the sprung
                                                  buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with the windlas drums.
                                                  >
                                                  > Wobbly913
                                                  >
                                                  > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                  > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                  >
                                                  > Don
                                                  >
                                                  > I personally think its the choise of amalgamate(s) or binding/mixing
                                                  agent but how can you know for sure?
                                                  LATER!
                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2160 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see
                                                  now.
                                                  EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had
                                                  crumbled.
                                                  We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good"
                                                  pieces to put one together.
                                                  Dave


                                                  >
                                                  > I second that!
                                                  >
                                                  > Sean
                                                  >
                                                  > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                  > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast
                                                  bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that
                                                  have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with
                                                  the windlas drums.
                                                  >
                                                  > Wobbly913
                                                  >
                                                  > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                  > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                  >
                                                  > Don
                                                  >
                                                  > don.dellmann@...
                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                  > Owner-Moderator
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                  > Co-moderator
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                  >
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: Victor Bitleris
                                                  > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                  > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that
                                                  Varney's problem
                                                  > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor
                                                  sweepings and
                                                  > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true
                                                  that was,
                                                  > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to
                                                  Varney
                                                  > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking
                                                  that Mantua
                                                  > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have
                                                  personally
                                                  > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC
                                                  or Mantua.
                                                  >
                                                  > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                  > Raleigh, NC
                                                  >
                                                  > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                  > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                                                  > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                  >
                                                  > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC
                                                  is.....
                                                  > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                  >
                                                  > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like
                                                  this.
                                                  > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not
                                                  address
                                                  > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all
                                                  held together
                                                  > my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)"
                                                  >
                                                  > Loren
                                                  >
                                                  > __________________________________________________________
                                                  > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with
                                                  Windows Live
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                                                  href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?
                                                  wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
                                                  >
                                                  > __________________________________________________________
                                                  > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
                                                  on your
                                                  > Live.com page.
                                                  > http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
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                                                  >
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                                                  > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                  >
                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2161 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
                                                  would that affect the weight balance of the loco--I picture the Dockside going down the track doing wheelies.
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:08 AM
                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear

                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@. ..> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Ken,
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks for the information on parts availability. While Delrin
                                                  would be fine, I would really like to find a die cast cylinder assembly
                                                  if that is even possible. I looked at your pictures more closely and
                                                  you certainly have the valve gear covered and they all look pretty
                                                  good. On the Bowser valve gear photo, are you using the Delrin
                                                  cylinder? It looks a little different with a bit of a mold line down
                                                  the middle. Do you know if the Central Valley gear is still available
                                                  anywhere?
                                                  >
                                                  > Dale Smith
                                                  > Pacifica, CA
                                                  >
                                                  > The Central Valley valve gear has been out of production for many
                                                  years Dale. But occasionally they pop up on eBay eg.(#150078456397) , as
                                                  do the Varney "Docksiders" that you can use for parts. The new Bowser
                                                  manufactured Delrin "Dockside" cylinder though is practically
                                                  indestructable & retails for only $4.31, & yes the pic of
                                                  the "Dockside" with the Bowser #3-217 valve gear kit in my 1941 Photo
                                                  album also has the Bowser Delrin cylinder that's had the black base
                                                  color painted. Good eye! Mold mark hadn't been dressed. The only
                                                  problem with the Central Valley valve gear is that all the various rods
                                                  must be riveted together with tiny rivets by the out of production Penn-
                                                  Line rivet tool! However even that little tool makes it to eBay every
                                                  so often. Ken

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2162 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: More Junque
                                                  I consider the Mantua die-cast flatcar to be the transition piece between the older cars with the paper sides and the later ones with plastic bodies--as they had the diecast frame. gj
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:52 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Junque

                                                  That sure helps date it.  There were two of the die cast flats in the box too, but no w wheel caboose (although I do have several of them).
                                                   
                                                  Don
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:22 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Junque


                                                  A Booster like yours was my first H-0 locomotive, actually it was a set
                                                  that included two diecast flatcars, a fourwheel caboose with a metal
                                                  underframe and plastic body, six 18" pieces of brass flextrack and a
                                                  cardboard tube that held D cell batteries. All were in kit form. One
                                                  story I heard that the nylon frame was to conserve metal during the
                                                  Korean police action. I bought the set in early 1954. Roger Aultman

                                                  Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                  > Got two more done last night & this morning.
                                                  >
                                                  > The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was another
                                                  > Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof & floor,
                                                  > cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends puzzle
                                                  > me a bit.
                                                  >
                                                  > The UTLX tank is another Manutua, the mate to the Deep Rock car I got from
                                                  > Jack a couple weeks ago.
                                                  >
                                                  > Remember I said in this box there was a Mantua Booster that wasn't even
                                                  > shown in the original auction? After I figured out the goofy wiring (it has
                                                  > a PLASTIC frame, there's brass saddles that the axles ride in, each axle has
                                                  > one brass and one plastic driver. The rear is connected to the motor via
                                                  > the motor mounting screw, the other connects to the screw that holds the
                                                  > boiler on, then there's a wire from the boiler casting to the motor) the
                                                  > d*mn thing runs.! Actually, for only picking up on one wheel each side, it
                                                  > runs pretty darn well! No pics yet, it's in paint, needs couplers and
                                                  > decals (Kadee No. 4's will fit).
                                                  >
                                                  > Don
                                                  >
                                                  > don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                  > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                  > Owner-Moderator
                                                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                  > Co-moderator
                                                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                  >

                                                  --
                                                  http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                                                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2163 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting....
                                                  Every once in a while...doesn't matter which forum, I'm suddenly
                                                  back on main screen and there is no way to find it again.


                                                  Okay try again.

                                                  Athearn dismals.

                                                  I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles.
                                                  One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks with
                                                  no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others in
                                                  pieces.

                                                  On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the
                                                  outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the
                                                  double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights.
                                                  One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights, and
                                                  no plates.
                                                  None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can
                                                  imagine is increasing magnetism.

                                                  On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen
                                                  the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how
                                                  they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I can't
                                                  believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957).

                                                  I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right.

                                                  Coupler box clips.
                                                  Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight.
                                                  These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole
                                                  for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused out
                                                  at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit.

                                                  Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later.

                                                  Thanks, guys.

                                                  Dave
                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2164 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                  if the part has not begun to physically separate, and it will not be under any mechanical strain, I flood the cracks with super glue.  gj
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:30 AM
                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"



                                                  You might be surprised to know this is still a problem and in the last
                                                  couple of years Bachmann has had to give some customers replacements for
                                                  locos made in China that incorporate Mazak/Zamak chasssis frames. The
                                                  problem is indeed impurities and you may be interested in the following.

                                                  'Mazak Disease', known to German modellers as the 'Zinkpest' (zinc
                                                  pestilence), relates to Mazak (also known as Zamak, pot metal, muck metal
                                                  and monkey metal), a carefully formulated alloy of zinc, magnesium and
                                                  copper. Mazak has been used widely since the 1930s not only for models and
                                                  toys but also for making engineering components, such as clock, telephone
                                                  and radio parts.
                                                  Back in the 1950s and 1960s it was used by all model railway manufacturers
                                                  for chassis and underframes, whilst Trix and Hornby Dublo also used it for
                                                  locomotive bodies, buildings and so on. Bachmann uses Mazak today for
                                                  chassis and other components, and no doubt other manufacturers do as well.

                                                  The material is rigid and robust, whilst it can also take fine detail,
                                                  making it ideal for die-casting. There are many castings dating back to the
                                                  1930s that are as good as the day they were made, and if Mazak were truly as
                                                  awful as some people say, it would never have been used. But (and it's a big
                                                  'but') the purity of the metal used is crucial.

                                                  Put another way, the critical factor in its successful survival is the care
                                                  originally taken in the precise mixing of the metals that went into Mazak.
                                                  Get it right and your Mazak should last forever. In reality the quality
                                                  control was not perfect in the past and it appears that Bachmann's
                                                  contractors in China may well be learning this lesson afresh.
                                                  A chap who many years ago worked for a die-casting firm told me that when
                                                  the workmen took their smoking breaks, they used to throw the silver paper
                                                  from their cigarette packets into the ingots 'to add grist to the mill'. If
                                                  true, this aluminium foil and paper of course added impurities, destroying
                                                  the careful balance of ingredients. The nett result is the Mazak disease
                                                  that modellers and collectors dread (it's known technically as intergranular
                                                  corrosion). This can take as long as 30 to 50 years to appear or as little
                                                  as 12 months. It turns the metal dry and brittle, often with a white,
                                                  powdery feel, or else badly distorted.

                                                  Under these circumstances there is very little you can do. Bachmann does at
                                                  least recognise the problem and has offered replacements to customers who
                                                  complain. Never attempt to straighten a Mazak casting by bending or pounding
                                                  it back to shape; it will almost certainly break into many pieces. Repairing
                                                  affected parts is seldom possible. Broken parts can sometimes be joined
                                                  using cyanoacrylate glue (Superglue) or epoxy resin (Araldite and
                                                  equivalents) , although the repaired items may not be able to stand much
                                                  mechanical stress.
                                                  Soldering is possible with special fluxes or paste solders (Solder-It paste
                                                  in the USA) but is not recommended. For vintage models in the 'collector's
                                                  item' category whitemetal reproduction parts are available in some cases.

                                                  There is a widely held misconception that Mazak is inherently defective and
                                                  prone to rotting. This is categorically not the case, even if this is little
                                                  comfort to people with diseased or damaged models!
                                                  The name ZAMAK is an acronym of the German names for the alloy's components:
                                                  Z for Zinc, A for Aluminium, MA for magnesium and K for Kupfer (copper).
                                                  Other trade names are ZAMAC and MAZAK.

                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2165 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/21/2007
                                                  Subject: Re: More Junque
                                                  Attachments :
                                                    Mike B: You could be right... I hadn't thought about Red Ball.

                                                    Don L.
                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2166 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
                                                    Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                    have it on cylinders and tender body of a Belle--
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:46 PM
                                                    Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                    I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem
                                                    was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and
                                                    a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was,
                                                    but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney
                                                    that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua
                                                    did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally
                                                    seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua.

                                                    Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                    Raleigh, NC

                                                    ----Original Message Follows----
                                                    From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                    Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                    Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                    Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800

                                                    I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is.....
                                                    Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.

                                                    You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                    There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                    due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together
                                                    my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"

                                                    Loren

                                                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                    Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
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                                                    http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us

                                                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                    Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your
                                                    Live.com page.
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                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2167 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/21/2007
                                                    Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
                                                    My first Athearn F unit, the early one assembled with 2-56 screws, had
                                                    dummy couplers screwed to post like mounts. Roger Aultman





                                                    curmudgeon wrote:
                                                    > Every once in a while...doesn't matter which forum, I'm suddenly
                                                    > back on main screen and there is no way to find it again.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Okay try again.
                                                    >
                                                    > Athearn dismals.
                                                    >
                                                    > I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles.
                                                    > One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks with
                                                    > no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others in
                                                    > pieces.
                                                    >
                                                    > On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the
                                                    > outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the
                                                    > double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights.
                                                    > One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights, and
                                                    > no plates.
                                                    > None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can
                                                    > imagine is increasing magnetism.
                                                    >
                                                    > On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen
                                                    > the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how
                                                    > they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I can't
                                                    > believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957).
                                                    >
                                                    > I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right.
                                                    >
                                                    > Coupler box clips.
                                                    > Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight.
                                                    > These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole
                                                    > for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused out
                                                    > at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit.
                                                    >
                                                    > Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later.
                                                    >
                                                    > Thanks, guys.
                                                    >
                                                    > Dave
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >


                                                    --
                                                    http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2168 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/21/2007
                                                    Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
                                                    Okay, probably so.
                                                    I know we ran these with horn-hooks at one time.
                                                    There seems to be, for that purpose, a box that screws onto the pad.
                                                    However, the pad seems to be higher than the ones woth the box cast
                                                    in.
                                                    I'll probably have to go measure and confirm height.

                                                    BTW, I now have an A-B on the shelf, tower drive warbonnets, first
                                                    time in a LONG time there has been functional Athearn diesels that
                                                    looked good around here.

                                                    I gotta get that Varney F-3 painted.

                                                    Oh, speaking of Varney F-3's, got a plastic A-B set (missing
                                                    driveshaft still) that when I took the "A" shell off, the horn that
                                                    is cast on at the centerline can be removed....and 4 holes, 2 per
                                                    side, are cast partway through from the inside for "proper" horns.
                                                    Of course, that means filing down the stupid parting line (or add
                                                    lagging clamps? Joke...) and touching up the paint.

                                                    Still trying to figure out this driveshaft.......NWSL universal ball
                                                    ends are too big. The "sockets" are .215".....

                                                    Dave

                                                    > My first Athearn F unit, the early one assembled with 2-56 screws,
                                                    had
                                                    > dummy couplers screwed to post like mounts. Roger Aultman
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > curmudgeon wrote:
                                                    > > Every once in a while...doesn't matter which forum, I'm suddenly
                                                    > > back on main screen and there is no way to find it again.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Okay try again.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Athearn dismals.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles.
                                                    > > One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks
                                                    with
                                                    > > no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others
                                                    in
                                                    > > pieces.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to
                                                    the
                                                    > > outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the
                                                    > > double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights.
                                                    > > One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights,
                                                    and
                                                    > > no plates.
                                                    > > None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can
                                                    > > imagine is increasing magnetism.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've
                                                    seen
                                                    > > the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how
                                                    > > they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I
                                                    can't
                                                    > > believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957).
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Coupler box clips.
                                                    > > Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight.
                                                    > > These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same
                                                    hole
                                                    > > for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused
                                                    out
                                                    > > at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Thanks, guys.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Dave
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --
                                                    > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                    >
                                                    > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                    >
                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2169 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                                    Subject: MORE Junque
                                                    Attachments :
                                                      Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these are kits,
                                                      because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are.

                                                      Don

                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                      Owner-Moderator
                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                      Co-moderator
                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2170 From: John Hagen Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      s mentioned in a previous post, I had a late 40's Mantua Mikado that I
                                                      kept for years. It had a diecast cab and the tab that stuck out
                                                      forwards for the mounting screw that went into the underside of the
                                                      boiler casting (do I have you confused yet?) did fall off due to zee
                                                      zamak disease. The rest of the cab, and the whole engine and tender was
                                                      fine. Between my brother and I, we had the Mikado, a Shifter, a Little
                                                      Six and a Shark Nose all from the 40's and 50's. I also prosessed at
                                                      one time or another an unassembled Big Six, ditto Prairie and a 2-6-6-
                                                      2T (still have it), all later production. The newest is obvisiously the
                                                      2-6-6-2T and it has less diecast percentage wise than any of the rest
                                                      but it still has a fair amount. None of these engines, other than the
                                                      Mike's cab had any Zmamk disease. Or, for that matter do my brothers
                                                      late 40's Varney F3A or B (he still has 'em).

                                                      John
                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2171 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.
                                                       
                                                      Don
                                                       
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: curmudgeon
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM
                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                      What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see
                                                      now.
                                                      EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had
                                                      crumbled.
                                                      We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good"
                                                      pieces to put one together.
                                                      Dave

                                                      >
                                                      > I second that!
                                                      >
                                                      > Sean
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@. ..> wrote:
                                                      > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast
                                                      bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that
                                                      have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with
                                                      the windlas drums.
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913
                                                      >
                                                      > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote:
                                                      > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                      >
                                                      > Don
                                                      >
                                                      > don.dellmann@ ...
                                                      > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                      > Owner-Moderator
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                      > Co-moderator
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: Victor Bitleris
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that
                                                      Varney's problem
                                                      > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor
                                                      sweepings and
                                                      > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true
                                                      that was,
                                                      > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to
                                                      Varney
                                                      > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking
                                                      that Mantua
                                                      > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have
                                                      personally
                                                      > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC
                                                      or Mantua.
                                                      >
                                                      > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                      > Raleigh, NC
                                                      >
                                                      > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                      > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...>
                                                      > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                      >
                                                      > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC
                                                      is.....
                                                      > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                      >
                                                      > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like
                                                      this.
                                                      > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not
                                                      address
                                                      > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all
                                                      held together
                                                      > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                      >
                                                      > Loren
                                                      >
                                                      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                      > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with
                                                      Windows Live
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                                                      >

                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2172 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      I suppose the problem may have been somewhat pervasive for a period of time.
                                                      I have also heard there was some of this with Mantua products as well, but
                                                      I have never seen it with Mantua. I have quite bit of Mantua cast zamac
                                                      locomotives, including three Sharknose diesels. I only have 4 cast Varney
                                                      diesels and see problems with 3 of them. But as to actually crumbling and
                                                      falling apart, I only had a couple of Varney add on parts pieces do this. I
                                                      will have to fabricate a set of NW-2 steps from brass I suppose. I saw some
                                                      on eBay once, but missed getting it.
                                                      Vic Bitleris
                                                      Raleigh, NC



                                                      ----Original Message Follows----
                                                      From: "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...>
                                                      Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:57:38 -0500

                                                      Vic,



                                                      I had a problem with one or two Penn Line items, the zamac just broke apart.




                                                      Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                      http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104



                                                      _____

                                                      From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                      Of Victor Bitleris
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:47 PM
                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"



                                                      I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem
                                                      was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and
                                                      a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was,
                                                      but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney
                                                      that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua
                                                      did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally
                                                      seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua.

                                                      Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                      Raleigh, NC

                                                      ----Original Message Follows----
                                                      From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@
                                                      <mailto:saltnpepper69%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com>
                                                      Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                                                      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800

                                                      I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is.....
                                                      Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.

                                                      You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                      There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                      due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together
                                                      my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)"

                                                      Loren

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                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2173 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      I sorta collect the metal cranes. I have four that have all good sprung trucks.  I had another that had one good truck. I tried to move the bolster and it fell apart in my hand. As a result I don't let the good trucks touch anything lest they too fall apart. Recently  I bought three brand new trucks still in their boxes, I will eventually put them on other cranes. Just got to avoid putting any pressure on them.
                                                       
                                                      Wobbly913

                                                      curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                      What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see
                                                      now.
                                                      EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had
                                                      crumbled.
                                                      We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good"
                                                      pieces to put one together.
                                                      Dave


                                                      >
                                                      > I second that!
                                                      >
                                                      > Sean
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913 wrote:
                                                      > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast
                                                      bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that
                                                      have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with
                                                      the windlas drums.
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913
                                                      >
                                                      > Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                      > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                      >
                                                      > Don
                                                      >
                                                      > don.dellmann@...
                                                      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                      > Owner-Moderator
                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                      > Co-moderator
                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: Victor Bitleris
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that
                                                      Varney's problem
                                                      > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor
                                                      sweepings and
                                                      > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true
                                                      that was,
                                                      > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to
                                                      Varney
                                                      > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking
                                                      that Mantua
                                                      > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have
                                                      personally
                                                      > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC
                                                      or Mantua.
                                                      >
                                                      > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                      > Raleigh, NC
                                                      >
                                                      > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                      > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows"
                                                      > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                      >
                                                      > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC
                                                      is.....
                                                      > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                      >
                                                      > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like
                                                      this.
                                                      > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not
                                                      address
                                                      > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all
                                                      held together
                                                      > my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)"
                                                      >
                                                      > Loren
                                                      >
                                                      > __________________________________________________________
                                                      > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with
                                                      Windows Live
                                                      > Spaces
                                                      > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?
                                                      href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?
                                                      wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
                                                      >
                                                      > __________________________________________________________
                                                      > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
                                                      on your
                                                      > Live.com page.
                                                      > http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                      > Never Miss an Email
                                                      > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                      > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                      > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                      >





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                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2174 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: More Junque
                                                      Could be.  There WERE two other Red Ball cars in the box.  (The twin hopper I already posted and a 40' flat I'm still working on).
                                                       
                                                      Don
                                                       
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:32 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Junque

                                                      Don........

                                                      It sure could be that the reefer is a Howell Day - Red Ball kit.

                                                      Best to ya'
                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA

                                                      On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                      > Got two more done last night & this morning.
                                                      >
                                                      > The Santa Fe Reefer is a bit of a puzzle, at first I thought it was
                                                      > another
                                                      > Mantua, but when I started to work on it I discovered wood roof &
                                                      > floor,
                                                      > cast white metal ends. I'm thinking Varney cardstock, but the ends
                                                      > puzzle
                                                      > me a bit.
                                                      ............ ..

                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2175 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      I have 3 of the cranes - 1 is falling apart. As for the buckeyes... it is hard to keep them around... even the central valleys I have... frustrating...
                                                      I have, I think, 2 pairs in brass... I will definately keep those...
                                                       
                                                      Sean

                                                      Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                      I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.
                                                       
                                                      Don
                                                       
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: curmudgeon
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM
                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                      What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see
                                                      now.
                                                      EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had
                                                      crumbled.
                                                      We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good"
                                                      pieces to put one together.
                                                      Dave

                                                      >
                                                      > I second that!
                                                      >
                                                      > Sean
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@. ..> wrote:
                                                      > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast
                                                      bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that
                                                      have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with
                                                      the windlas drums.
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913
                                                      >
                                                      > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote:
                                                      > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                      >
                                                      > Don
                                                      >
                                                      > don.dellmann@ ...
                                                      > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                      > Owner-Moderator
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                      > Co-moderator
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: Victor Bitleris
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that
                                                      Varney's problem
                                                      > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor
                                                      sweepings and
                                                      > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true
                                                      that was,
                                                      > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to
                                                      Varney
                                                      > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking
                                                      that Mantua
                                                      > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have
                                                      personally
                                                      > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC
                                                      or Mantua.
                                                      >
                                                      > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                      > Raleigh, NC
                                                      >
                                                      > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                      > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...>
                                                      > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                      >
                                                      > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC
                                                      is.....
                                                      > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                      >
                                                      > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like
                                                      this.
                                                      > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not
                                                      address
                                                      > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all
                                                      held together
                                                      > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                      >
                                                      > Loren
                                                      >
                                                      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                      > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with
                                                      Windows Live
                                                      > Spaces
                                                      > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?
                                                      href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?
                                                      wx_action=create& wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us
                                                      >
                                                      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                      > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
                                                      on your
                                                      > Live.com page.
                                                      > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                      > Never Miss an Email
                                                      > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
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                                                      > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                      >



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                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2176 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
                                                      Ok, I dug up my 6 tower drive F7"s.  Two have motors very similar to the older Hi F drives, the other 4 have motors more like the later RDC's. None seem to have any excess metal sticking up off of the motor.
                                                      Does the extra metal piece seem to serve any purpose?? Is it possibly just stuck to the magnet??
                                                       
                                                      Wobbly913

                                                      curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                      Every once in a while...doesn't matter which forum, I'm suddenly
                                                      back on main screen and there is no way to find it again.


                                                      Okay try again.

                                                      Athearn dismals.

                                                      I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles.
                                                      One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks with
                                                      no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others in
                                                      pieces.

                                                      On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the
                                                      outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the
                                                      double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights.
                                                      One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights, and
                                                      no plates.
                                                      None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can
                                                      imagine is increasing magnetism.

                                                      On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen
                                                      the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how
                                                      they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I can't
                                                      believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957).

                                                      I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right.

                                                      Coupler box clips.
                                                      Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight.
                                                      These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole
                                                      for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused out
                                                      at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit.

                                                      Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later.

                                                      Thanks, guys.

                                                      Dave




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                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2177 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      I think I had 2 mantua 0-4-0's this year that fell apart... One complete kit in the box with the sloped back tender... the only things I could save were the motor, rods, drivers (I think), tender trucks, box and the cab. Everything else was shot!
                                                       
                                                      I have a varney I need a frame for.. I thought it was an Old Lady, but I saw a listing of Yardbird's for one and I did not bid, b/c it did not look exactly the same...
                                                       
                                                      Sean... again

                                                      Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
                                                      I suppose the problem may have been somewhat pervasive for a period of time.
                                                      I have also heard there was some of this with Mantua products as well, but
                                                      I have never seen it with Mantua. I have quite bit of Mantua cast zamac
                                                      locomotives, including three Sharknose diesels. I only have 4 cast Varney
                                                      diesels and see problems with 3 of them. But as to actually crumbling and
                                                      falling apart, I only had a couple of Varney add on parts pieces do this. I
                                                      will have to fabricate a set of NW-2 steps from brass I suppose. I saw some
                                                      on eBay once, but missed getting it.
                                                      Vic Bitleris
                                                      Raleigh, NC

                                                      ----Original Message Follows----
                                                      From: "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@verizon. net>
                                                      Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                      Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:57:38 -0500

                                                      Vic,

                                                      I had a problem with one or two Penn Line items, the zamac just broke apart.

                                                      Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                      http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104

                                                      _____

                                                      From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf
                                                      Of Victor Bitleris
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:47 PM
                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                      I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem
                                                      was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and
                                                      a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was,
                                                      but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney
                                                      that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua
                                                      did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally
                                                      seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua.

                                                      Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                      Raleigh, NC

                                                      ----Original Message Follows----
                                                      From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@
                                                      <mailto:saltnpepper 69%40hotmail. com> hotmail.com>
                                                      Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com
                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com
                                                      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800

                                                      I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is.....
                                                      Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.

                                                      You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                      There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                      due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together
                                                      my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"

                                                      Loren

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                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2178 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                      anyone got a spare plastic dummy Varney F3B? I might have an A shell--gj
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM
                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque

                                                      Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these are kits,
                                                      because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are.

                                                      Don

                                                      don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                      http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                      Owner-Moderator
                                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                      Co-moderator
                                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2179 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                      during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to turn on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING TO TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it.  gj
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM
                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque

                                                      Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these are kits,
                                                      because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are.

                                                      Don

                                                      don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                      http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                      Owner-Moderator
                                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                      Co-moderator
                                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2180 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      I have one in the pile--so far as I know it is OK--but recall the one I has as a teenager--got a $15 check for my 15th birthday--bought the crane and some fishing stuff--I had a room over the garage--neighbor's cat used to come up there--liked that dangling hook, and would turn the crane over, thereby dumping all the lines off the sheaves--would take me an hour to re-rig it--back when I could see what I was doing!GJ
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:14 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                      I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.
                                                       
                                                      Don
                                                       
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: curmudgeon
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM
                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                      What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see
                                                      now.
                                                      EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had
                                                      crumbled.
                                                      We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good"
                                                      pieces to put one together.
                                                      Dave

                                                      >
                                                      > I second that!
                                                      >
                                                      > Sean
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@. ..> wrote:
                                                      > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast
                                                      bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that
                                                      have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with
                                                      the windlas drums.
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913
                                                      >
                                                      > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote:
                                                      > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                      >
                                                      > Don
                                                      >
                                                      > don.dellmann@ ...
                                                      > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                      > Owner-Moderator
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                      > Co-moderator
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: Victor Bitleris
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that
                                                      Varney's problem
                                                      > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor
                                                      sweepings and
                                                      > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true
                                                      that was,
                                                      > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to
                                                      Varney
                                                      > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking
                                                      that Mantua
                                                      > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have
                                                      personally
                                                      > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC
                                                      or Mantua.
                                                      >
                                                      > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                      > Raleigh, NC
                                                      >
                                                      > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                      > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...>
                                                      > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                      >
                                                      > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC
                                                      is.....
                                                      > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                      >
                                                      > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like
                                                      this.
                                                      > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not
                                                      address
                                                      > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all
                                                      held together
                                                      > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                      >
                                                      > Loren
                                                      >
                                                      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                      > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with
                                                      Windows Live
                                                      > Spaces
                                                      > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?
                                                      href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?
                                                      wx_action=create& wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt= en-us
                                                      >
                                                      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                      > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
                                                      on your
                                                      > Live.com page.
                                                      > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay& ocid=T001MSN30A0 701
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                      > Never Miss an Email
                                                      > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
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                                                      > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                      >

                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2181 From: Garry Spear Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      I have had great success (over a 50 year period) in controlling zink rot with zinc cromate primer.  None of the cars I assembled in the 50's seems to have and problems.  MDC, Athearn tank cars, Red Ball, Laconia, seem th have any problems.

                                                      For old items newley acquired with problem I strip all paint and paint the castings with ACC, the thin runny type.  Over the last 20 years this seems to stop and further rot.

                                                      Garry Spear


                                                      On 1/21/07, Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:

                                                      I have one in the pile--so far as I know it is OK--but recall the one I has as a teenager--got a $15 check for my 15th birthday--bought the crane and some fishing stuff--I had a room over the garage--neighbor's cat used to come up there--liked that dangling hook, and would turn the crane over, thereby dumping all the lines off the sheaves--would take me an hour to re-rig it--back when I could see what I was doing!GJ
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: Don Dellmann
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:14 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                      I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.
                                                       
                                                      Don
                                                       
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: curmudgeon
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM
                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                      What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see
                                                      now.
                                                      EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had
                                                      crumbled.
                                                      We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good"
                                                      pieces to put one together.
                                                      Dave

                                                      >
                                                      > I second that!
                                                      >
                                                      > Sean
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                      > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast
                                                      bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that
                                                      have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with
                                                      the windlas drums.
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913
                                                      >
                                                      > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                      > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                      >
                                                      > Don
                                                      >
                                                      > don.dellmann@...
                                                      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                      > Owner-Moderator
                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                      > Co-moderator
                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: Victor Bitleris
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that
                                                      Varney's problem
                                                      > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor
                                                      sweepings and
                                                      > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true
                                                      that was,
                                                      > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to
                                                      Varney
                                                      > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking
                                                      that Mantua
                                                      > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have
                                                      personally
                                                      > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC
                                                      or Mantua.
                                                      >
                                                      > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                      > Raleigh, NC
                                                      >
                                                      > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                      > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                                                      > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                      >
                                                      > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC
                                                      is.....
                                                      > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                      >
                                                      > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like
                                                      this.
                                                      > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not
                                                      address
                                                      > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all
                                                      held together
                                                      > my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)"
                                                      >
                                                      > Loren
                                                      >
                                                      > __________________________________________________________
                                                      > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with
                                                      Windows Live
                                                      > Spaces
                                                      > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?
                                                      href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?
                                                      wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
                                                      >
                                                      > __________________________________________________________
                                                      > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
                                                      on your
                                                      > Live.com page.
                                                      > http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                      > Never Miss an Email
                                                      > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                      > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                      > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                      >


                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2182 From: sean naylor Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      Hello Garry,
                                                      How do I get my hands on this ACC? I have heard of it, but never seen it.
                                                      Thanks, Sean

                                                      Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> wrote:
                                                      I have had great success (over a 50 year period) in controlling zink rot with zinc cromate primer.  None of the cars I assembled in the 50's seems to have and problems.  MDC, Athearn tank cars, Red Ball, Laconia, seem th have any problems.

                                                      For old items newley acquired with problem I strip all paint and paint the castings with ACC, the thin runny type.  Over the last 20 years this seems to stop and further rot.

                                                      Garry Spear


                                                      On 1/21/07, Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                      I have one in the pile--so far as I know it is OK--but recall the one I has as a teenager--got a $15 check for my 15th birthday--bought the crane and some fishing stuff--I had a room over the garage--neighbor's cat used to come up there--liked that dangling hook, and would turn the crane over, thereby dumping all the lines off the sheaves--would take me an hour to re-rig it--back when I could see what I was doing!GJ
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:14 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                      I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.
                                                       
                                                      Don
                                                       
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: curmudgeon
                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM
                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                      What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see
                                                      now.
                                                      EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had
                                                      crumbled.
                                                      We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good"
                                                      pieces to put one together.
                                                      Dave

                                                      >
                                                      > I second that!
                                                      >
                                                      > Sean
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@.. .> wrote:
                                                      > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast
                                                      bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that
                                                      have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with
                                                      the windlas drums.
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913
                                                      >
                                                      > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote:
                                                      > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                      >
                                                      > Don
                                                      >
                                                      > don.dellmann@ ...
                                                      > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                      > Owner-Moderator
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                      > Co-moderator
                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: Victor Bitleris
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that
                                                      Varney's problem
                                                      > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor
                                                      sweepings and
                                                      > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true
                                                      that was,
                                                      > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to
                                                      Varney
                                                      > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking
                                                      that Mantua
                                                      > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have
                                                      personally
                                                      > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC
                                                      or Mantua.
                                                      >
                                                      > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                      > Raleigh, NC
                                                      >
                                                      > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                      > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...>
                                                      > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                      > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                      >
                                                      > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC
                                                      is.....
                                                      > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                      >
                                                      > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like
                                                      this.
                                                      > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not
                                                      address
                                                      > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all
                                                      held together
                                                      > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                      >
                                                      > Loren
                                                      >
                                                      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                      > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with
                                                      Windows Live
                                                      > Spaces
                                                      > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?
                                                      href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?
                                                      wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt=en-us
                                                      >
                                                      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                      > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
                                                      on your
                                                      > Live.com page.
                                                      > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                      > Never Miss an Email
                                                      > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                      > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                      > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                      >




                                                      TV dinner still cooling?
                                                      Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2183 From: oahurailway Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: Fw: Varney 0-4-0T Valve Gear
                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > would that affect the weight balance of the loco--I picture the
                                                      Dockside going down the track doing wheelies.
                                                      >

                                                      It doesn't seem to, as the frame & motor have a low center of
                                                      gravity. However, Varney did make an optional lead boiler weight that
                                                      increased the overall weight considerably....Ken
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2184 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
                                                      Possibly.
                                                      Except they are cut to drop right in, same material as the pole
                                                      pieces, same shine/rust.
                                                      Puzzled this old grey head.
                                                      Dave

                                                      >
                                                      > Ok, I dug up my 6 tower drive F7"s. Two have motors very similar
                                                      to the older Hi F drives, the other 4 have motors more like the
                                                      later RDC's. None seem to have any excess metal sticking up off of
                                                      the motor.
                                                      > Does the extra metal piece seem to serve any purpose?? Is it
                                                      possibly just stuck to the magnet??
                                                      >
                                                      > Wobbly913
                                                      >
                                                      > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                      > Every once in a while...doesn't matter which forum, I'm suddenly
                                                      > back on main screen and there is no way to find it again.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Okay try again.
                                                      >
                                                      > Athearn dismals.
                                                      >
                                                      > I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles.
                                                      > One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks
                                                      with
                                                      > no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others
                                                      in
                                                      > pieces.
                                                      >
                                                      > On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the
                                                      > outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the
                                                      > double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights.
                                                      > One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights,
                                                      and
                                                      > no plates.
                                                      > None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can
                                                      > imagine is increasing magnetism.
                                                      >
                                                      > On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen
                                                      > the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how
                                                      > they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I
                                                      can't
                                                      > believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957).
                                                      >
                                                      > I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right.
                                                      >
                                                      > Coupler box clips.
                                                      > Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight.
                                                      > These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole
                                                      > for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused
                                                      out
                                                      > at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit.
                                                      >
                                                      > Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later.
                                                      >
                                                      > Thanks, guys.
                                                      >
                                                      > Dave
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                      > Get your own web address.
                                                      > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
                                                      >
                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2185 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/21/2007
                                                      Subject: Athearn GEEP questions
                                                      First, this unit was missing most of the handrails. Found a bunch of
                                                      the stanchions, matched what was on it.
                                                      I got a full replacement set (super-glued the buggers in this time),
                                                      and they're different stanchions.
                                                      The old ones were flattened parallel to the axles on the end with a
                                                      hole punched through them for the handrail.
                                                      The new ones are flattened parallel to the rails and rolled over the
                                                      stanchions.
                                                      Does the older style date it better than 1971?
                                                      That's the type of drive we found in the drawings at hoseeker, but
                                                      only for a U-25 or some such.
                                                      No weights.
                                                      I think I like the new ones better.

                                                      Next, anybody have a junk shell for an Athearn GP-9?
                                                      My end steps are pretty bad, one corner REALLY bad, I figure if I
                                                      had one good end I could section it.
                                                      Color immaterial, except this one (GN) has black pilots and steps.

                                                      Thanks.

                                                      Dave
                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2186 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/22/2007
                                                      Subject: [Fwd: 1954 Mantua]
                                                      Attachments :
                                                        --
                                                        http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                        Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2187 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        I could be wrong about this, but it seems to me that Mantua Metal
                                                        Products (Mantua NJ) was the original name of the company, and they were
                                                        in the metal casting business before entering the model railroad market.
                                                        So they had considerably more experience with Zamak than other model
                                                        railroad producers who may or may not have farmed out their production
                                                        to a local job shop. That would account for Mantua models holding up
                                                        better than some of the others.

                                                        Mike

                                                        John Hagen wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > s mentioned in a previous post, I had a late 40's Mantua Mikado that I
                                                        > kept for years. It had a diecast cab and the tab that stuck out
                                                        > forwards for the mounting screw that went into the underside of the
                                                        > boiler casting (do I have you confused yet?) did fall off due to zee
                                                        > zamak disease. The rest of the cab, and the whole engine and tender was
                                                        > fine. Between my brother and I, we had the Mikado, a Shifter, a Little
                                                        > Six and a Shark Nose all from the 40's and 50's. I also prosessed at
                                                        > one time or another an unassembled Big Six, ditto Prairie and a 2-6-6-
                                                        > 2T (still have it), all later production. The newest is obvisiously the
                                                        > 2-6-6-2T and it has less diecast percentage wise than any of the rest
                                                        > but it still has a fair amount. None of these engines, other than the
                                                        > Mike's cab had any Zmamk disease. Or, for that matter do my brothers
                                                        > late 40's Varney F3A or B (he still has 'em).
                                                        >

                                                        --
                                                        Mike Sloane
                                                        Allamuchy NJ
                                                        <mikesloane@...>
                                                        Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                        Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                        I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man.
                                                        It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2188 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders.

                                                        Best to ya'
                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                        On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote:

                                                        > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's
                                                        > problem
                                                        > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor
                                                        > sweepings and
                                                        > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true
                                                        > that was,
                                                        > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to
                                                        > Varney
                                                        > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking
                                                        > that Mantua
                                                        > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have
                                                        > personally
                                                        > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or
                                                        > Mantua.
                                                        >
                                                        > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                        > Raleigh, NC
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                                                        > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                        >
                                                        > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC
                                                        > is.....
                                                        > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                        >
                                                        > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                        > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                        > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held
                                                        > together
                                                        > my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)"
                                                        >
                                                        > Loren
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2189 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        "ACC" is the generic name for good old "super glue" or "Krazy Glue"
                                                         
                                                        Don
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:44 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        Hello Garry,
                                                        How do I get my hands on this ACC? I have heard of it, but never seen it.
                                                        Thanks, Sean

                                                        Garry Spear <garrettspear@ gmail.com> wrote:
                                                        I have had great success (over a 50 year period) in controlling zink rot with zinc cromate primer.  None of the cars I assembled in the 50's seems to have and problems.  MDC, Athearn tank cars, Red Ball, Laconia, seem th have any problems.

                                                        For old items newley acquired with problem I strip all paint and paint the castings with ACC, the thin runny type.  Over the last 20 years this seems to stop and further rot.

                                                        Garry Spear


                                                        On 1/21/07, Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                        I have one in the pile--so far as I know it is OK--but recall the one I has as a teenager--got a $15 check for my 15th birthday--bought the crane and some fishing stuff--I had a room over the garage--neighbor' s cat used to come up there--liked that dangling hook, and would turn the crane over, thereby dumping all the lines off the sheaves--would take me an hour to re-rig it--back when I could see what I was doing!GJ
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:14 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.
                                                         
                                                        Don
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: curmudgeon
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see
                                                        now.
                                                        EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had
                                                        crumbled.
                                                        We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good"
                                                        pieces to put one together.
                                                        Dave

                                                        >
                                                        > I second that!
                                                        >
                                                        > Sean
                                                        >
                                                        > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@.. .> wrote:
                                                        > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast
                                                        bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that
                                                        have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with
                                                        the windlas drums.
                                                        >
                                                        > Wobbly913
                                                        >
                                                        > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote:
                                                        > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                        >
                                                        > Don
                                                        >
                                                        > don.dellmann@ ...
                                                        > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                        > Owner-Moderator
                                                        > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                        > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                        > Co-moderator
                                                        > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                        >
                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > From: Victor Bitleris
                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                        > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that
                                                        Varney's problem
                                                        > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor
                                                        sweepings and
                                                        > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true
                                                        that was,
                                                        > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to
                                                        Varney
                                                        > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking
                                                        that Mantua
                                                        > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have
                                                        personally
                                                        > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC
                                                        or Mantua.
                                                        >
                                                        > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                        > Raleigh, NC
                                                        >
                                                        > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...>
                                                        > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                        >
                                                        > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC
                                                        is.....
                                                        > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                        >
                                                        > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like
                                                        this.
                                                        > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not
                                                        address
                                                        > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all
                                                        held together
                                                        > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                        >
                                                        > Loren
                                                        >
                                                        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                        > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with
                                                        Windows Live
                                                        > Spaces
                                                        > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?
                                                        href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?
                                                        wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt=en-us
                                                        >
                                                        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                        > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
                                                        on your
                                                        > Live.com page.
                                                        > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                        > Never Miss an Email
                                                        > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
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                                                        > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2190 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting.
                                                        I remember those on a couple Athean motors from the 60's.  I have NO idea why they were there.
                                                         
                                                        Don
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: Wobbly913
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:26 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Someday I'll figure out why my post goes "POOF!" while posting....

                                                        Ok, I dug up my 6 tower drive F7"s.  Two have motors very similar to the older Hi F drives, the other 4 have motors more like the later RDC's. None seem to have any excess metal sticking up off of the motor.
                                                        Does the extra metal piece seem to serve any purpose?? Is it possibly just stuck to the magnet??
                                                         
                                                        Wobbly913

                                                        curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                        Every once in a while...doesn' t matter which forum, I'm suddenly
                                                        back on main screen and there is no way to find it again.


                                                        Okay try again.

                                                        Athearn dismals.

                                                        I have oh, six "F" units, maybe, all sorts of styles.
                                                        One is Hi-F, one is a dummy factory Hi-F frames, riveted trucks with
                                                        no drums, one is straight-cut gears, one is angled-gears, others in
                                                        pieces.

                                                        On the tower drives, one has rectangular metal pieces stuck to the
                                                        outside of the pole pieces, opposite the magnet. It also has the
                                                        double drive gears, oillite bearings on main gear, and weights.
                                                        One has tower drive, straight cut gears, no oillite, no weights, and
                                                        no plates.
                                                        None of the others have the plates. Why only some? All I can
                                                        imagine is increasing magnetism.

                                                        On the Hi-F and dummys, the coupler mount is different. I've seen
                                                        the pictures on yardbird and hoseeker, cannot make out quite how
                                                        they look, and cannot remember what we did 40-50 years ago (I can't
                                                        believe the first Hi-F we got was 1957).

                                                        I have gone through all the junk boxes, nothing looks right.

                                                        Coupler box clips.
                                                        Picture Athearn clips, dismal and freight.
                                                        These are about the same size, at least twice as thick, same hole
                                                        for the coupler pivot boss, but 4 tabs in the corners, radiused out
                                                        at the end. Have a handful, no idea what they fit.

                                                        Too much for one post, I'll do the rest later.

                                                        Thanks, guys.

                                                        Dave




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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2191 From: sean naylor Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        OH,
                                                         
                                                        oooppps  I almost started yelling again....
                                                         
                                                        Thanks Don, That is what I have been using...
                                                        Sean

                                                        Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                        "ACC" is the generic name for good old "super glue" or "Krazy Glue"
                                                         
                                                        Don
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:44 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        Hello Garry,
                                                        How do I get my hands on this ACC? I have heard of it, but never seen it.
                                                        Thanks, Sean

                                                        Garry Spear <garrettspear@ gmail.com> wrote:
                                                        I have had great success (over a 50 year period) in controlling zink rot with zinc cromate primer.  None of the cars I assembled in the 50's seems to have and problems.  MDC, Athearn tank cars, Red Ball, Laconia, seem th have any problems.

                                                        For old items newley acquired with problem I strip all paint and paint the castings with ACC, the thin runny type.  Over the last 20 years this seems to stop and further rot.

                                                        Garry Spear


                                                        On 1/21/07, Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                        I have one in the pile--so far as I know it is OK--but recall the one I has as a teenager--got a $15 check for my 15th birthday--bought the crane and some fishing stuff--I had a room over the garage--neighbor' s cat used to come up there--liked that dangling hook, and would turn the crane over, thereby dumping all the lines off the sheaves--would take me an hour to re-rig it--back when I could see what I was doing!GJ
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:14 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        I don't have an Athearn, but I DO have a Red Ball, and it's riding on the sprung Athearn Buckeyes.  I had a second pair of the trucks, but alas, they too crumbled.
                                                         
                                                        Don
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: curmudgeon
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:50 PM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        What surpises me, is the number of Athearn cast 250-ton cranes I see
                                                        now.
                                                        EVERY ONE when I was doing this stuff in the 50's and 60's had
                                                        crumbled.
                                                        We ended up with several given to us, never did get enough "good"
                                                        pieces to put one together.
                                                        Dave

                                                        >
                                                        > I second that!
                                                        >
                                                        > Sean
                                                        >
                                                        > Wobbly913 <wobbly913@.. .> wrote:
                                                        > I have several Athearn metal kits in which the cast
                                                        bolster/coupler pocket is shattered, and several metal cranes that
                                                        have the sprung buckeye trucks that are also shattered along with
                                                        the windlas drums.
                                                        >
                                                        > Wobbly913
                                                        >
                                                        > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote:
                                                        > I see it occasionally in Athearn pieces from that era too.
                                                        >
                                                        > Don
                                                        >
                                                        > don.dellmann@ ...
                                                        > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                        > Owner-Moderator
                                                        > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                        > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                        > Co-moderator
                                                        > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                        >
                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > From: Victor Bitleris
                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:46 PM
                                                        > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > I actually heard from another group a few years ago that
                                                        Varney's problem
                                                        > was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor
                                                        sweepings and
                                                        > a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true
                                                        that was,
                                                        > but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to
                                                        Varney
                                                        > that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking
                                                        that Mantua
                                                        > did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have
                                                        personally
                                                        > seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC
                                                        or Mantua.
                                                        >
                                                        > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                        > Raleigh, NC
                                                        >
                                                        > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        > From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ ...>
                                                        > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                        >
                                                        > I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC
                                                        is.....
                                                        > Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                        >
                                                        > You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like
                                                        this.
                                                        > There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not
                                                        address
                                                        > due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all
                                                        held together
                                                        > my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                        >
                                                        > Loren
                                                        >
                                                        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                        > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with
                                                        Windows Live
                                                        > Spaces
                                                        > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?
                                                        href=http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?
                                                        wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt=en-us
                                                        >
                                                        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                        > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
                                                        on your
                                                        > Live.com page.
                                                        > http://www.live. com/?addTemplate =ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                        > Never Miss an Email
                                                        > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                        > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                        > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                        >




                                                        TV dinner still cooling?
                                                        Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.


                                                        TV dinner still cooling?
                                                        Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2192 From: busgrouches Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Shay Parts
                                                        Hi, I have been lurking on this site for some time. Just recently a
                                                        friend of mine passed away and I got a lot of model railroad items that
                                                        might be useful to someone out there in Vintage land.
                                                        In a box I got parts for a two truck Shay. All the parts are not there.
                                                        What I do have is the frame with electrical pads in place, minus the
                                                        motor, metal boiler, plactic cab and tender, parts on a plactic tree
                                                        and drive shaft from motor to trucks. The trucks, minus one mounting
                                                        pin.
                                                        Anyone interested can contact me off list at <busgrouches@...>
                                                        Will trade for some track maps.

                                                        Frank Weed
                                                        busgrouches@...
                                                        MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2193 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        WOW! I guess I am lucky. I have about 5 of these buggers, one with a cast
                                                        zamak tender, all of them are in really good shape. I am really reworking
                                                        the heck out of one of the 0-6-0's to bash it into a Southern A7. I hope it
                                                        stays in good shape. I accidentally found out that using Tix flux, you can
                                                        actually solder to it.

                                                        Vic Bitleris
                                                        Raleigh, NC



                                                        ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        From: sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:28:11 -0800 (PST)

                                                        I think I had 2 mantua 0-4-0's this year that fell apart... One complete kit
                                                        in the box with the sloped back tender... the only things I could save were
                                                        the motor, rods, drivers (I think), tender trucks, box and the cab.
                                                        Everything else was shot!

                                                        I have a varney I need a frame for.. I thought it was an Old Lady, but I
                                                        saw a listing of Yardbird's for one and I did not bid, b/c it did not look
                                                        exactly the same...

                                                        Sean... again

                                                        Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
                                                        I suppose the problem may have been somewhat pervasive for a
                                                        period of time.
                                                        I have also heard there was some of this with Mantua products as well, but
                                                        I have never seen it with Mantua. I have quite bit of Mantua cast zamac
                                                        locomotives, including three Sharknose diesels. I only have 4 cast Varney
                                                        diesels and see problems with 3 of them. But as to actually crumbling and
                                                        falling apart, I only had a couple of Varney add on parts pieces do this. I
                                                        will have to fabricate a set of NW-2 steps from brass I suppose. I saw some
                                                        on eBay once, but missed getting it.
                                                        Vic Bitleris
                                                        Raleigh, NC

                                                        ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        From: "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...>
                                                        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:57:38 -0500

                                                        Vic,

                                                        I had a problem with one or two Penn Line items, the zamac just broke apart.

                                                        Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                        http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

                                                        _____

                                                        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                        Of Victor Bitleris
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:47 PM
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's problem
                                                        was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor sweepings and
                                                        a lot of trash was also included. I don't really know how true that was,
                                                        but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to Varney
                                                        that was already bad due to poor quality control. I am thinking that Mantua
                                                        did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less. I have personally
                                                        seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or Mantua.

                                                        Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                        Raleigh, NC

                                                        ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@
                                                        <mailto:saltnpepper69%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com>
                                                        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800

                                                        I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC is.....
                                                        Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.

                                                        You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                        There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                        due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held together
                                                        my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)"

                                                        Loren

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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2194 From: Garry Spear Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Super Glue is a brand name for ACC. Instant glue. Hobby Shops, Art
                                                        supply stores, Drug stores carry this product. My local Hobby Shop,
                                                        Lansdale, PA, carries two or three different brands.

                                                        This glue comes in different thicknesses. Gap filling is thick.
                                                        Other type get thinner. You want the thinest and showest setting
                                                        available. Keep a bottle of nail polish remove at hand for freeing
                                                        sticky fingers. The nail polish remover MUST contain acetone! Look
                                                        at the label; some types of nail polish remover use other solvants to
                                                        remove nail polish. The acetone is the disolving agent; acetone from
                                                        the local hardware store is better, but requires more care.

                                                        I ALWAYS work over newspaper! If there is a problem simply drop the
                                                        part; let everything harden. The newspaper can be removed and the
                                                        newspaper will protect the working surface. I offen work in my lap
                                                        and once droped some glue and glued my pants to my legs. This is how
                                                        I found out about using nail polish remover.

                                                        Garry Spear
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2195 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Lead Rot
                                                        "Mike Sloane" mikesloane@... mikesloane

                                                        >I could be wrong about this, but it seems to me that Mantua Metal
                                                        >Products (Mantua NJ) was the original name of the company, and they were
                                                        >in the metal casting business before entering the model railroad market.
                                                        >So they had considerably more experience with Zamak than other model
                                                        >railroad producers who may or may not have farmed out their production
                                                        >to a local job shop. That would account for Mantua models holding up
                                                        >better than some of the others.

                                                        My first Mantua, a Mike, was purchased used in late '50s and it already had
                                                        warped running side boards...that was before I was even aware of the
                                                        "Zinkpest" problems. Within a few years it simply "cracked" into
                                                        fragments. Conversely, I have a Mantua 4-6-2, purchased in late 60s that
                                                        won RMCs first kitbashing award in January 1972, that is still whole and
                                                        operable although it sits in a display case.

                                                        Oldest and first H0 model I have is (purchased in 1958) a PennLine (now
                                                        Bowser) Pennsylvania H9, 2-8-0, that is still in prime condition. Other
                                                        "zamac" locos are some "New One" CNJ 4-6-0s that I dare not even touch.
                                                        One can see the cracking on the castings.


                                                        Ray Hobin
                                                        NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                        Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2196 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is..
                                                        Dave vS.

                                                        Mike Bauers wrote:
                                                        I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders.
                                                        
                                                        Best to ya'
                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote:
                                                        
                                                          
                                                        I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's  
                                                        problem
                                                        was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor  
                                                        sweepings and
                                                        a lot of trash was also included.  I don't really know how true  
                                                        that was,
                                                        but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to  
                                                        Varney
                                                        that was already bad due to poor quality control.  I am thinking  
                                                        that Mantua
                                                        did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less.  I have  
                                                        personally
                                                        seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or  
                                                        Mantua.
                                                        
                                                        Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                        Raleigh, NC
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                                                        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                        
                                                        I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC  
                                                        is.....
                                                        Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                        
                                                        You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                        There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                        due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held  
                                                        together
                                                        my "Old Vintage Trains................:-)"
                                                        
                                                        Loren
                                                            
                                                        
                                                         
                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        
                                                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                                        
                                                        <*> Your email settings:
                                                            Individual Email | Traditional
                                                        
                                                        <*> To change settings online go to:
                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join
                                                            (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                        
                                                        <*> To change settings via email:
                                                            mailto:vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com 
                                                            mailto:vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                                        
                                                        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                        
                                                        <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                         
                                                        
                                                        
                                                          
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2197 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        the modern-era locos, about 1958-59.  The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is..
                                                        Dave vS.

                                                        Mike Bauers wrote:

                                                        I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders.
                                                        
                                                        Best to ya'
                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote:
                                                        
                                                          
                                                        I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's  
                                                        problem
                                                        was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor  
                                                        sweepings and
                                                        a lot of trash was also included.  I don't really know how true  
                                                        that was,
                                                        but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to  
                                                        Varney
                                                        that was already bad due to poor quality control.  I am thinking  
                                                        that Mantua
                                                        did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less.  I have  
                                                        personally
                                                        seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or  
                                                        Mantua.
                                                        
                                                        Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                        Raleigh, NC
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                        
                                                        I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC  
                                                        is.....
                                                        Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                        
                                                        You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                        There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                        due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held  
                                                        together
                                                        my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                        
                                                        Loren
                                                            
                                                        
                                                         
                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        
                                                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/
                                                        
                                                        <*> Your email settings:
                                                            Individual Email | Traditional
                                                        
                                                        <*> To change settings online go to:
                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join
                                                            (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                        
                                                        <*> To change settings via email:
                                                            mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com 
                                                            mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
                                                        
                                                        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com
                                                        
                                                        <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                            http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/
                                                         
                                                        
                                                        
                                                          

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2198 From: John Hagen Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        I really can't say exactly when but they made the cab plastic it was a
                                                        long time ago. I would guess during the early 80's, maybe 70's?

                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        > I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the
                                                        > states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I
                                                        can
                                                        > tell how old it really is..
                                                        > Dave vS.
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2199 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        HMMM This one may be older than I thought, Label on the box says
                                                        *#383-070.  Then lists the following operating smokestack, operating headlight Sagami "can" motor  Die-cast metal boiler  Brass bell Metal handrails Lifetime warranty.There is also a Certificate of Authenticity sayinmg that it's a Limited Production Run Number 112.   Even though this was purchased back in 2003 it "languished" at a friends place in Helena MT until last year waiting for a Sound decoder from Soundtraxx, I haven't really run it all that much as my layout is still under construction and on temporary wiring.
                                                        Must try a Google search on Mantua info.

                                                        Dave S.

                                                        Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                        the modern-era locos, about 1958-59.  The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is..
                                                        Dave vS.

                                                        Mike Bauers wrote:

                                                        I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders.
                                                        
                                                        Best to ya'
                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote:
                                                        
                                                          
                                                        I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's  
                                                        problem
                                                        was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor  
                                                        sweepings and
                                                        a lot of trash was also included.  I don't really know how true  
                                                        that was,
                                                        but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to  
                                                        Varney
                                                        that was already bad due to poor quality control.  I am thinking  
                                                        that Mantua
                                                        did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less.  I have  
                                                        personally
                                                        seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or  
                                                        Mantua.
                                                        
                                                        Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                        Raleigh, NC
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                        
                                                        I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC  
                                                        is.....
                                                        Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                        
                                                        You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                        There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                        due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held  
                                                        together
                                                        my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                        
                                                        Loren
                                                            
                                                        
                                                         
                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        
                                                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/
                                                        
                                                        <*> Your email settings:
                                                            Individual Email | Traditional
                                                        
                                                        <*> To change settings online go to:
                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join
                                                            (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                        
                                                        <*> To change settings via email:
                                                            mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com 
                                                            mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
                                                        
                                                        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com
                                                        
                                                        <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                            http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/
                                                         
                                                        
                                                        
                                                          

                                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.5/645 - Release Date: 1/22/2007 4:10 PM
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2200 From: John Hagen Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Oops, Glenn caught me with mu memory down. His post came through
                                                        about 4 minutes after I sent my post. As I sit here scratching my
                                                        head, I have to agree with Glenn that it was likely late 50's. Like I
                                                        said, it was a long time ago and ones memory does play tricks at at
                                                        times. I do know that the tender received 6 wheel trucks real early
                                                        on, probably by the mid 50's. THrough the years, when all Mantua was
                                                        Tyco, it really was cheapened. Alas and alack, the way of the world.
                                                        Sucks at times.

                                                        John Hagen

                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > the modern-era locos, about 1958-59. The switch on freight cars
                                                        was more around early 1950's.
                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > From: Dave Slater
                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM
                                                        > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        > I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the
                                                        states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I
                                                        can tell how old it really is..
                                                        > Dave vS.
                                                        >
                                                        > Mike Bauers wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and
                                                        tenders.
                                                        >
                                                        > Best to ya'
                                                        > Mike Bauers
                                                        > Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2201 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        If it's got the Salami motor I'd say it's 1980's-90's, after Mantua bought the rights to the name back from the Chinese owners of Tyco.
                                                         
                                                        Don
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:21 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        HMMM This one may be older than I thought, Label on the box says
                                                        *#383-070.  Then lists the following operating smokestack, operating headlight Sagami "can" motor  Die-cast metal boiler  Brass bell Metal handrails Lifetime warranty.There is also a Certificate of Authenticity sayinmg that it's a Limited Production Run Number 112.   Even though this was purchased back in 2003 it "languished" at a friends place in Helena MT until last year waiting for a Sound decoder from Soundtraxx, I haven't really run it all that much as my layout is still under construction and on temporary wiring.
                                                        Must try a Google search on Mantua info.

                                                        Dave S.

                                                        Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                        the modern-era locos, about 1958-59.  The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is..
                                                        Dave vS.

                                                        Mike Bauers wrote:

                                                        I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders.
                                                        
                                                        Best to ya'
                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote:
                                                        
                                                          
                                                        I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's  
                                                        problem
                                                        was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor  
                                                        sweepings and
                                                        a lot of trash was also included.  I don't really know how true  
                                                        that was,
                                                        but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to  
                                                        Varney
                                                        that was already bad due to poor quality control.  I am thinking  
                                                        that Mantua
                                                        did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less.  I have  
                                                        personally
                                                        seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or  
                                                        Mantua.
                                                        
                                                        Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                        Raleigh, NC
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                        
                                                        I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC  
                                                        is.....
                                                        Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                        
                                                        You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                        There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                        due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held  
                                                        together
                                                        my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                        
                                                        Loren
                                                            
                                                        
                                                         
                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        
                                                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/
                                                        
                                                        <*> Your email settings:
                                                            Individual Email | Traditional
                                                        
                                                        <*> To change settings online go to:
                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join
                                                            (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                        
                                                        <*> To change settings via email:
                                                            mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com 
                                                            mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
                                                        
                                                        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com
                                                        
                                                        <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                            http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/
                                                         
                                                        
                                                        
                                                          

                                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.5/645 - Release Date: 1/22/2007 4:10 PM
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2202 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        John,

                                                        I got a 0-4-0 switcher in 1961 and it had a plastic cab.

                                                        Take care.

                                                         

                                                        Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

                                                         


                                                        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of John Hagen
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:09 PM
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                         

                                                        I really can't say exactly when but they made the cab plastic it was a
                                                        long time ago. I would guess during the early 80's, maybe 70's?

                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Dave Slater <daslater@.. .> wrote:

                                                        >
                                                        > Curious here, When did Mantua
                                                        switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        > I purchased a Mantua
                                                        plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the
                                                        > states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I
                                                        can
                                                        > tell how old it really is..
                                                        > Dave vS.

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2203 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Don,
                                                        It's a SaGami motor, you must have food on your mind, go grab yourself a SAGAMI sandwich..  LOL
                                                        I looked up Mantua on Google and found this link  http://www.railstop.com/History/Mantua/MantuaHistory.asp   Some interesting reading there and you hit the time line I was thinking about after reading the site..
                                                        Dave S.

                                                        Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                        If it's got the Salami motor I'd say it's 1980's-90's, after Mantua bought the rights to the name back from the Chinese owners of Tyco.
                                                         
                                                        Don
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:21 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        HMMM This one may be older than I thought, Label on the box says
                                                        *#383-070.  Then lists the following operating smokestack, operating headlight Sagami "can" motor  Die-cast metal boiler  Brass bell Metal handrails Lifetime warranty.There is also a Certificate of Authenticity sayinmg that it's a Limited Production Run Number 112.   Even though this was purchased back in 2003 it "languished" at a friends place in Helena MT until last year waiting for a Sound decoder from Soundtraxx, I haven't really run it all that much as my layout is still under construction and on temporary wiring.
                                                        Must try a Google search on Mantua info.

                                                        Dave S.

                                                        Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                        the modern-era locos, about 1958-59.  The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is..
                                                        Dave vS.

                                                        Mike Bauers wrote:

                                                        I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders.
                                                        
                                                        Best to ya'
                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote:
                                                        
                                                          
                                                        I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's  
                                                        problem
                                                        was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor  
                                                        sweepings and
                                                        a lot of trash was also included.  I don't really know how true  
                                                        that was,
                                                        but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to  
                                                        Varney
                                                        that was already bad due to poor quality control.  I am thinking  
                                                        that Mantua
                                                        did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less.  I have  
                                                        personally
                                                        seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or  
                                                        Mantua.
                                                        
                                                        Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                        Raleigh, NC
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                        
                                                        I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC  
                                                        is.....
                                                        Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                        
                                                        You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                        There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                        due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held  
                                                        together
                                                        my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                        
                                                        Loren
                                                            
                                                        
                                                         
                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        
                                                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.5/645 - Release Date: 1/22/2007 4:10 PM

                                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.5/645 - Release Date: 1/22/2007 4:10 PM
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2204 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Vintage HO Scale Red Ball Kit INFO Wanted #4327
                                                        I came up with a old metal and wooden kit made by Red Ball, that I
                                                        am needing some help on building since it came without any
                                                        instructions on how to build the kit. The kit is a Red Ball 50 Ft
                                                        Depressed Center Flat car model #4327. What I am needing is to find
                                                        someone that has build this kind of kit and if anyone has a set of
                                                        instructions on how to assessable this wooden and metal kit would
                                                        you get with me or let me know vie this group.

                                                        PS: For this was just 1 of 24 wooden and metal HO scale kits, which
                                                        I came up with today. Would like to learn more as to the list you
                                                        can find in the File section of this group, look for "HO Scale Train
                                                        Cars" that I just uploaded this evening. I would like to know since
                                                        they seem to be over 30+ years old, around the 1970's I estimate
                                                        what are they worth?

                                                        Yours Truly, Maryann Obuch
                                                        DU and OA HO Scale Railway
                                                        http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train.html
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2205 From: takefive247 Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Mantua coupler question
                                                        Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua Bobber
                                                        caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame as was
                                                        used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to correct for
                                                        the taper needed for the loop and hook.

                                                        Thanks
                                                        Bill
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2206 From: jay matz Date: 1/22/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Mantua started using plastic cabs and tenders in 1954-1955.
                                                        Jay

                                                        John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                        I really can't say exactly when but they made the cab plastic it was a
                                                        long time ago. I would guess during the early 80's, maybe 70's?

                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Dave Slater <daslater@.. .> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        > I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the
                                                        > states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I
                                                        can
                                                        > tell how old it really is..
                                                        > Dave vS.



                                                        Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2207 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                        I feel the same way about my Windows system..........  Most of the time I use a different computer that I feel much better about.

                                                        I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although I do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using the whip and chair on it so often.

                                                        ;^)

                                                        Best to ya'
                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                        On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote:

                                                        during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to turn on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING TO TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it.  gj
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque

                                                        Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these are kits,
                                                        because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are.

                                                        Don

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2208 From: John Hagen Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                        Jeez, you guys. Either get a Mac or stop your whining! You two sound
                                                        like a couple of Milwaukeens (Where the street car bends the corner
                                                        around).

                                                        John Hagen

                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > I feel the same way about my Windows system.......... Most of the
                                                        > time I use a different computer that I feel much better about.
                                                        >
                                                        > I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new
                                                        > computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although
                                                        I
                                                        > do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using
                                                        > the whip and chair on it so often.
                                                        >
                                                        > ;^)
                                                        >
                                                        > Best to ya'
                                                        > Mike Bauers
                                                        > Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > > during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to
                                                        turn
                                                        > > on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING
                                                        TO
                                                        > > TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it. gj
                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > > From: Don Dellmann
                                                        > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM
                                                        > > Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these
                                                        are
                                                        > > kits,
                                                        > > because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Don
                                                        >
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2209 From: William Nielsen Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        Bill,
                                                        Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                        remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                        was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                        after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced
                                                        an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't
                                                        work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused
                                                        me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled
                                                        centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit slack,
                                                        which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                        believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits.
                                                        Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft
                                                        gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their
                                                        currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt
                                                        these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!

                                                        Regards,
                                                        Bill Nielsen
                                                        Oakland Park, FL


                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                        Bobber
                                                        > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame
                                                        as was
                                                        > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                        correct for
                                                        > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                        >
                                                        > Thanks
                                                        > Bill
                                                        >
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2210 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        the Sagami motor makes it fairly modern. (I used to replace the motor that looked like a Pittman DC-70 with the NWSL "Athearn Re-power kit" that had a 20 x 32 mm Sagami motor with a flywheel on it.  Mounted to a 1/16" x 1/2" strip of K&S brass, it was a direct replacement. gj
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 6:21 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        HMMM This one may be older than I thought, Label on the box says
                                                        *#383-070.  Then lists the following operating smokestack, operating headlight Sagami "can" motor  Die-cast metal boiler  Brass bell Metal handrails Lifetime warranty.There is also a Certificate of Authenticity sayinmg that it's a Limited Production Run Number 112.   Even though this was purchased back in 2003 it "languished" at a friends place in Helena MT until last year waiting for a Sound decoder from Soundtraxx, I haven't really run it all that much as my layout is still under construction and on temporary wiring.
                                                        Must try a Google search on Mantua info.

                                                        Dave S.

                                                        Glenn Joesten wrote:

                                                        the modern-era locos, about 1958-59.  The switch on freight cars was more around early 1950's.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 5:20 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I can tell how old it really is..
                                                        Dave vS.

                                                        Mike Bauers wrote:

                                                        I've seen this in some older metal Mantua Mike/Pacific cabs and tenders.
                                                        
                                                        Best to ya'
                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        On Jan 21, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote:
                                                        
                                                          
                                                        I actually heard from another group a few years ago that Varney's  
                                                        problem
                                                        was because they would reclaim the scrap zamac from the floor  
                                                        sweepings and
                                                        a lot of trash was also included.  I don't really know how true  
                                                        that was,
                                                        but I suspect that the real problem was with the stuff shipped to  
                                                        Varney
                                                        that was already bad due to poor quality control.  I am thinking  
                                                        that Mantua
                                                        did not have this problem, or they had it a lot less.  I have  
                                                        personally
                                                        seen problems like this with Varney castings, but never with MDC or  
                                                        Mantua.
                                                        
                                                        Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                        Raleigh, NC
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:55:31 -0800
                                                        
                                                        I knew someone out there would share what the problem with ZAMAC  
                                                        is.....
                                                        Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
                                                        
                                                        You just have to love it, when you get a big group together like this.
                                                        There is almost no subject that someone in the group can not address
                                                        due to the immense differences of interests and speciaties all held  
                                                        together
                                                        my "Old Vintage Trains...... ......... .:-)"
                                                        
                                                        Loren
                                                            
                                                        
                                                         
                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        
                                                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/
                                                        
                                                        <*> Your email settings:
                                                            Individual Email | Traditional
                                                        
                                                        <*> To change settings online go to:
                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join
                                                            (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                        
                                                        <*> To change settings via email:
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                                                            mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
                                                        
                                                        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com
                                                        
                                                        <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                            http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/
                                                         
                                                        
                                                        
                                                          

                                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.5/645 - Release Date: 1/22/2007 4:10 PM

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2211 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"
                                                        I have a series of the early Mantua 0-4-0 switchers.  First was the "Goat"--camelback.  Then the "Busy Bee" side tanker. This one eventually became the "Booster" when the change to die cast came about. Very short-lived was the "Mighty Mite", with tender, that became the "Shifter". Cab on this one was the die cast version of the one on the "Shifter" and "Big Six"  Both used parts in common with the "Goat" Change came about in the early fifties. Would have to research the ads in MR. 
                                                         
                                                        The metal old time passenger cars apparently continued into the Korean War era--but material changed from brass to tin plate, which didn't take the stamping of board detail as well.  Same era saw Atlas' flextrack with steel rail.
                                                         
                                                        gj
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 6:35 PM
                                                        Subject: RE: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        John,

                                                        I got a 0-4-0 switcher in 1961 and it had a plastic cab.

                                                        Take care.

                                                        Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104


                                                        From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of John Hagen
                                                        Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:09 PM
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        Subject: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Re: "Lead rot"

                                                        I really can't say exactly when but they made the cab plastic it was a
                                                        long time ago. I would guess during the early 80's, maybe 70's?

                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Dave Slater <daslater@.. .> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Curious here, When did Mantua switch from metal to plastic????
                                                        > I purchased a Mantua plastic body Mikado in 2003 at a show in the
                                                        > states, I think it's a relatively new one but just wondering how I
                                                        can
                                                        > tell how old it really is..
                                                        > Dave vS.

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2212 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage rolling stock. I
                                                        used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications. They are not
                                                        the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't imagine being
                                                        a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has smaller fingers,
                                                        better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need to find a
                                                        kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when using these.
                                                        These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure proper
                                                        insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have never had a
                                                        problem personally, but heard you could have a short when using these.

                                                        Vic Bitleris
                                                        Raleigh, NC



                                                        ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@...>
                                                        Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000

                                                        Bill,
                                                        Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                        remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                        was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                        after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced
                                                        an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't
                                                        work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused
                                                        me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled
                                                        centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit slack,
                                                        which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                        believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits.
                                                        Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft
                                                        gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their
                                                        currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt
                                                        these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!

                                                        Regards,
                                                        Bill Nielsen
                                                        Oakland Park, FL


                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                        Bobber
                                                        > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame
                                                        as was
                                                        > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                        correct for
                                                        > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                        >
                                                        > Thanks
                                                        > Bill
                                                        >

                                                        _________________________________________________________________
                                                        The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop.
                                                        http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2213 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        Back then, what we now call the #4 was the only one they made.  gj
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 10:02 AM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question

                                                        Bill,
                                                        Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                        remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                        was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                        after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced
                                                        an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't
                                                        work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused
                                                        me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled
                                                        centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit slack,
                                                        which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                        believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits.
                                                        Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft
                                                        gear, closer-to-scale- profile couplers like they use on their
                                                        currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt
                                                        these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!

                                                        Regards,
                                                        Bill Nielsen
                                                        Oakland Park, FL

                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "takefive247" <takefive@.. .>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                        Bobber
                                                        > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame
                                                        as was
                                                        > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                        correct for
                                                        > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                        >
                                                        > Thanks
                                                        > Bill
                                                        >

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2214 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side only.
                                                        They need to ALL be insulated on the same side!
                                                        And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what isn't can
                                                        be a trip.
                                                        We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even
                                                        invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult.
                                                        Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get all
                                                        the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 old
                                                        ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early metal
                                                        Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box touches
                                                        the frame.

                                                        Dave

                                                        >
                                                        > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage rolling
                                                        stock. I
                                                        > used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications.
                                                        They are not
                                                        > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't
                                                        imagine being
                                                        > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has
                                                        smaller fingers,
                                                        > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need to
                                                        find a
                                                        > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when using
                                                        these.
                                                        > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure
                                                        proper
                                                        > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have
                                                        never had a
                                                        > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when using
                                                        these.
                                                        >
                                                        > Vic Bitleris
                                                        > Raleigh, NC
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@...>
                                                        > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000
                                                        >
                                                        > Bill,
                                                        > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                        > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                        > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                        > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced
                                                        > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't
                                                        > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused
                                                        > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled
                                                        > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit
                                                        slack,
                                                        > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                        > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits.
                                                        > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft
                                                        > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their
                                                        > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt
                                                        > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!
                                                        >
                                                        > Regards,
                                                        > Bill Nielsen
                                                        > Oakland Park, FL
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@>
                                                        > wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                        > Bobber
                                                        > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame
                                                        > as was
                                                        > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                        > correct for
                                                        > > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Thanks
                                                        > > Bill
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        > _________________________________________________________________
                                                        > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the
                                                        scoop.
                                                        > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
                                                        >
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2215 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                        Actually Mike HAS a Mac (and he still has an Amiga too.)

                                                        Don

                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:08 AM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque


                                                        > Jeez, you guys. Either get a Mac or stop your whining! You two sound
                                                        > like a couple of Milwaukeens (Where the street car bends the corner
                                                        > around).
                                                        >
                                                        > John Hagen
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                        >>
                                                        >> I feel the same way about my Windows system.......... Most of the
                                                        >> time I use a different computer that I feel much better about.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new
                                                        >> computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although
                                                        > I
                                                        >> do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using
                                                        >> the whip and chair on it so often.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> ;^)
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Best to ya'
                                                        >> Mike Bauers
                                                        >> Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >> On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                        >>
                                                        >> > during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to
                                                        > turn
                                                        >> > on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING
                                                        > TO
                                                        >> > TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it. gj
                                                        >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        >> > From: Don Dellmann
                                                        >> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        >> > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM
                                                        >> > Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque
                                                        >> >
                                                        >> > Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these
                                                        > are
                                                        >> > kits,
                                                        >> > because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are.
                                                        >> >
                                                        >> > Don
                                                        >>
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2216 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with metal wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several cars with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left wheels grounded--Instant short on coupling!
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: curmudgeon
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question

                                                        Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side only.
                                                        They need to ALL be insulated on the same side!
                                                        And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what isn't can
                                                        be a trip.
                                                        We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even
                                                        invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult.
                                                        Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get all
                                                        the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 old
                                                        ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early metal
                                                        Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box touches
                                                        the frame.

                                                        Dave

                                                        >
                                                        > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage rolling
                                                        stock. I
                                                        > used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications.
                                                        They are not
                                                        > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't
                                                        imagine being
                                                        > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has
                                                        smaller fingers,
                                                        > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need to
                                                        find a
                                                        > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when using
                                                        these.
                                                        > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure
                                                        proper
                                                        > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have
                                                        never had a
                                                        > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when using
                                                        these.
                                                        >
                                                        > Vic Bitleris
                                                        > Raleigh, NC
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@.. .>
                                                        > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000
                                                        >
                                                        > Bill,
                                                        > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                        > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                        > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                        > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced
                                                        > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands didn't
                                                        > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused
                                                        > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled
                                                        > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to limit
                                                        slack,
                                                        > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                        > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car kits.
                                                        > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft
                                                        > gear, closer-to-scale- profile couplers like they use on their
                                                        > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt
                                                        > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!
                                                        >
                                                        > Regards,
                                                        > Bill Nielsen
                                                        > Oakland Park, FL
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "takefive247" <takefive@>
                                                        > wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                        > Bobber
                                                        > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame
                                                        > as was
                                                        > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                        > correct for
                                                        > > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Thanks
                                                        > > Bill
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                        > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the
                                                        scoop.
                                                        > http://tv.msn. com/tv/globes200 7/?icid=nctaglin e2
                                                        >

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2217 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                        How about a "BananaPCJr.6000"
                                                        (Remember the kid in "Bloom County"?
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:15 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque

                                                        Actually Mike HAS a Mac (and he still has an Amiga too.)

                                                        Don

                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@yahoo. com>
                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:08 AM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque

                                                        > Jeez, you guys. Either get a Mac or stop your whining! You two sound
                                                        > like a couple of Milwaukeens (Where the street car bends the corner
                                                        > around).
                                                        >
                                                        > John Hagen
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@ ...> wrote:
                                                        >>
                                                        >> I feel the same way about my Windows system...... .... Most of the
                                                        >> time I use a different computer that I feel much better about.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new
                                                        >> computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although
                                                        > I
                                                        >> do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using
                                                        >> the whip and chair on it so often.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> ;^)
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Best to ya'
                                                        >> Mike Bauers
                                                        >> Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >> On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                        >>
                                                        >> > during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to
                                                        > turn
                                                        >> > on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING
                                                        > TO
                                                        >> > TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it. gj
                                                        >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        >> > From: Don Dellmann
                                                        >> > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        >> > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM
                                                        >> > Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque
                                                        >> >
                                                        >> > Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these
                                                        > are
                                                        >> > kits,
                                                        >> > because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are.
                                                        >> >
                                                        >> > Don
                                                        >>
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2218 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides of the
                                                        truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the box I'd
                                                        know) and one at the "front".

                                                        I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on them
                                                        when I gave up.


                                                        >
                                                        > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with metal
                                                        wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several cars
                                                        with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left wheels
                                                        grounded--Instant short on coupling!
                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > From: curmudgeon
                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM
                                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side only.
                                                        > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side!
                                                        > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what isn't
                                                        can
                                                        > be a trip.
                                                        > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even
                                                        > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult.
                                                        > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get
                                                        all
                                                        > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 old
                                                        > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early
                                                        metal
                                                        > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box
                                                        touches
                                                        > the frame.
                                                        >
                                                        > Dave
                                                        >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage
                                                        rolling
                                                        > stock. I
                                                        > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications.
                                                        > They are not
                                                        > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't
                                                        > imagine being
                                                        > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has
                                                        > smaller fingers,
                                                        > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need
                                                        to
                                                        > find a
                                                        > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when
                                                        using
                                                        > these.
                                                        > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure
                                                        > proper
                                                        > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have
                                                        > never had a
                                                        > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when
                                                        using
                                                        > these.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Vic Bitleris
                                                        > > Raleigh, NC
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@>
                                                        > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Bill,
                                                        > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                        > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                        > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                        > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced
                                                        > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands
                                                        didn't
                                                        > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused
                                                        > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled
                                                        > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to
                                                        limit
                                                        > slack,
                                                        > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                        > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car
                                                        kits.
                                                        > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft
                                                        > > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their
                                                        > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt
                                                        > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Regards,
                                                        > > Bill Nielsen
                                                        > > Oakland Park, FL
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@>
                                                        > > wrote:
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                        > > Bobber
                                                        > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame
                                                        > > as was
                                                        > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                        > > correct for
                                                        > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Thanks
                                                        > > > Bill
                                                        > > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > __________________________________________________________
                                                        > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all
                                                        the
                                                        > scoop.
                                                        > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2219 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                        Hey Guys!
                                                        I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                        functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                        in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                        Thanks,
                                                        Sean
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2220 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                        without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                        Hey Guys!
                                                        I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                        functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                        in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                        Thanks,
                                                        Sean

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2221 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                        My younger brother still has an Atari 800 XL...
                                                        Dave S.

                                                        Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                        Actually Mike HAS a Mac (and he still has an Amiga too.)
                                                        
                                                        Don
                                                        
                                                        ----- Original Message ----- 
                                                        From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:08 AM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque
                                                        
                                                        
                                                          
                                                        Jeez, you guys. Either get a Mac or stop your whining! You two sound 
                                                        like a couple of Milwaukeens (Where the street car bends the corner 
                                                        around).
                                                        
                                                        John Hagen
                                                        
                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                            
                                                        I feel the same way about my Windows system..........  Most of the  
                                                        time I use a different computer that I feel much better about.
                                                        
                                                        I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new  
                                                        computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although 
                                                              
                                                        I  
                                                            
                                                        do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using  
                                                        the whip and chair on it so often.
                                                        
                                                        ;^)
                                                        
                                                        Best to ya'
                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                        
                                                              
                                                        during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to 
                                                                
                                                        turn  
                                                            
                                                        on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING 
                                                                
                                                        TO  
                                                            
                                                        TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it.  gj
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: Don Dellmann
                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque
                                                        
                                                        Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these 
                                                                
                                                        are  
                                                            
                                                        kits,
                                                        because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are.
                                                        
                                                        Don
                                                                
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        
                                                        
                                                        
                                                            
                                                        
                                                        
                                                         
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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2222 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        Most of the Scale Craft cars I have seen (O and OO) had axles sort of like the present-day Athearn diesels--short stub axles with insulating tube between.  Bolsters were a block of Bakelite.  So they were effectively fully insulated. gj
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: curmudgeon
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:14 PM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question

                                                        My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides of the
                                                        truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the box I'd
                                                        know) and one at the "front".

                                                        I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on them
                                                        when I gave up.

                                                        >
                                                        > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with metal
                                                        wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several cars
                                                        with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left wheels
                                                        grounded--Instant short on coupling!
                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > From: curmudgeon
                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM
                                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side only.
                                                        > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side!
                                                        > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what isn't
                                                        can
                                                        > be a trip.
                                                        > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even
                                                        > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult.
                                                        > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get
                                                        all
                                                        > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30 old
                                                        > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early
                                                        metal
                                                        > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box
                                                        touches
                                                        > the frame.
                                                        >
                                                        > Dave
                                                        >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage
                                                        rolling
                                                        > stock. I
                                                        > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other applications.
                                                        > They are not
                                                        > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I can't
                                                        > imagine being
                                                        > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has
                                                        > smaller fingers,
                                                        > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I need
                                                        to
                                                        > find a
                                                        > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when
                                                        using
                                                        > these.
                                                        > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to ensure
                                                        > proper
                                                        > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I have
                                                        > never had a
                                                        > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when
                                                        using
                                                        > these.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Vic Bitleris
                                                        > > Raleigh, NC
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                        > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@>
                                                        > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                        > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                        > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Bill,
                                                        > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                        > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                        > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                        > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company produced
                                                        > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands
                                                        didn't
                                                        > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that caused
                                                        > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled
                                                        > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to
                                                        limit
                                                        > slack,
                                                        > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                        > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car
                                                        kits.
                                                        > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow draft
                                                        > > gear, closer-to-scale- profile couplers like they use on their
                                                        > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to adapt
                                                        > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Regards,
                                                        > > Bill Nielsen
                                                        > > Oakland Park, FL
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "takefive247" <takefive@>
                                                        > > wrote:
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                        > > Bobber
                                                        > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same frame
                                                        > > as was
                                                        > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                        > > correct for
                                                        > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Thanks
                                                        > > > Bill
                                                        > > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                        > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all
                                                        the
                                                        > scoop.
                                                        > > http://tv.msn. com/tv/globes200 7/?icid=nctaglin e2
                                                        > >
                                                        >

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2223 From: sean naylor Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                        I just lloked it over and I think the motor is not original. It has KMT, which this guy seemed to use on several of his pieces, including some varney. Also, any ideas on restoring it? Does anyone have any old instructions i can get a copy of? I would love to add this to one of may many projects..Oh wait...! I think I just did!
                                                        Sean

                                                        a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                        Hey Guys!
                                                        I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                        functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                        in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                        Thanks,
                                                        Sean



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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2224 From: sean naylor Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                        No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean

                                                        Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                        without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                        Hey Guys!
                                                        I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                        functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                        in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                        Thanks,
                                                        Sean



                                                        Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2225 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/23/2007
                                                        Subject: Old-Rare-Obscure
                                                        Attachments :
                                                          Going through the box I've been working out of the last week, at first I
                                                          thought this was another Comet (remember AHC's "15 cars in a bag $ 3.99?) .

                                                          When I started to work on it though I discovered an interesting mix, die
                                                          cast floor, plastic ends and roof, and cardstock sides!

                                                          I'd heard of them, but had never before seen a "Lehigh" kit.

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2226 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/23/2007
                                                          Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                          Without all the motors and gears and rigging, the body castings look an awful lot like my Red Ball.  There's a photo in my "Silver Streak" folder, it's there because until I get the rigging replaced it can't be uncoupled from my Silver Streak crane tender :-)  I could send you a better picture if you wanted.
                                                           
                                                          Don
                                                           
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:20 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                          No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean

                                                          Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                          without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged.
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM
                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                          Hey Guys!
                                                          I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                          functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                          in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                          Thanks,
                                                          Sean



                                                          Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2227 From: John Hagen Date: 1/23/2007
                                                          Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                          Myu older brother stil has an abacus, the kind with beads. He claims it
                                                          has never froze up and never needed to be restarted.

                                                          John Hagen

                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > My younger brother still has an Atari 800 XL...
                                                          > Dave S.
                                                          >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2228 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/23/2007
                                                          Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                          Yeah, some were (and I was picking them up wherever possible), some
                                                          were NOT insulated at all!
                                                          They were for the outside-third-rail crowd (including drivers!).
                                                          I have a flatcar on the layout in the basement full of those non-
                                                          insulated, cast pot-metal wheelsets with all the ribs on the back!
                                                          If they had the bakelite truck bolster, no problem. Buy, most of
                                                          mine have the cast center bolsters.
                                                          I know nobody believes me......and I hate to go dig them out and
                                                          take a picture...but, I think I have a big box of spare trucks.
                                                          The problem with the bakelite bolsters is they are drilled with a
                                                          brass "nail" driven into each end, and over time, crack, allowing
                                                          the pin to come out, sideframe to drift out, axles to come out of
                                                          the journals, and drop the whole mess right there.
                                                          Held to the body with a long brass nail and a hole drolled through
                                                          the end, and a cotter key.
                                                          I used to keep all the leftover bits from carburettor rebuilds to
                                                          get those small cotter keys.

                                                          Dave
                                                          >
                                                          > Most of the Scale Craft cars I have seen (O and OO) had axles sort
                                                          of like the present-day Athearn diesels--short stub axles with
                                                          insulating tube between. Bolsters were a block of Bakelite. So
                                                          they were effectively fully insulated. gj
                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > From: curmudgeon
                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:14 PM
                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides of
                                                          the
                                                          > truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the box
                                                          I'd
                                                          > know) and one at the "front".
                                                          >
                                                          > I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on
                                                          them
                                                          > when I gave up.
                                                          >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with
                                                          metal
                                                          > wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several
                                                          cars
                                                          > with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left
                                                          wheels
                                                          > grounded--Instant short on coupling!
                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > > From: curmudgeon
                                                          > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM
                                                          > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side
                                                          only.
                                                          > > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side!
                                                          > > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what
                                                          isn't
                                                          > can
                                                          > > be a trip.
                                                          > > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even
                                                          > > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult.
                                                          > > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR get
                                                          > all
                                                          > > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30
                                                          old
                                                          > > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early
                                                          > metal
                                                          > > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box
                                                          > touches
                                                          > > the frame.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Dave
                                                          > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage
                                                          > rolling
                                                          > > stock. I
                                                          > > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other
                                                          applications.
                                                          > > They are not
                                                          > > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I
                                                          can't
                                                          > > imagine being
                                                          > > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid has
                                                          > > smaller fingers,
                                                          > > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I
                                                          need
                                                          > to
                                                          > > find a
                                                          > > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when
                                                          > using
                                                          > > these.
                                                          > > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to
                                                          ensure
                                                          > > proper
                                                          > > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I
                                                          have
                                                          > > never had a
                                                          > > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when
                                                          > using
                                                          > > these.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Vic Bitleris
                                                          > > > Raleigh, NC
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                          > > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@>
                                                          > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                          > > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Bill,
                                                          > > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                          > > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                          > > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                          > > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company
                                                          produced
                                                          > > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different brands
                                                          > didn't
                                                          > > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that
                                                          caused
                                                          > > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a coiled
                                                          > > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to
                                                          > limit
                                                          > > slack,
                                                          > > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                          > > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging car
                                                          > kits.
                                                          > > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow
                                                          draft
                                                          > > > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on their
                                                          > > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to
                                                          adapt
                                                          > > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Regards,
                                                          > > > Bill Nielsen
                                                          > > > Oakland Park, FL
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@>
                                                          > > > wrote:
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                          > > > Bobber
                                                          > > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same
                                                          frame
                                                          > > > as was
                                                          > > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                          > > > correct for
                                                          > > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > Thanks
                                                          > > > > Bill
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > __________________________________________________________
                                                          > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get
                                                          all
                                                          > the
                                                          > > scoop.
                                                          > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
                                                          > > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2229 From: sean naylor Date: 1/23/2007
                                                          Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                          Hey Don,
                                                          If it would not be too much trouble, I would shure love to see the pic. I could not seem to find it.
                                                          Thanks, Sean

                                                          Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                          Without all the motors and gears and rigging, the body castings look an awful lot like my Red Ball.  There's a photo in my "Silver Streak" folder, it's there because until I get the rigging replaced it can't be uncoupled from my Silver Streak crane tender :-)  I could send you a better picture if you wanted.
                                                           
                                                          Don
                                                           
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:20 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                          No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean

                                                          Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                          without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged.
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM
                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                          Hey Guys!
                                                          I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                          functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                          in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                          Thanks,
                                                          Sean



                                                          Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.


                                                          Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2230 From: sean naylor Date: 1/23/2007
                                                          Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                          I can't believe I mis-spelled sure...!

                                                          sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                          Hey Don,
                                                          If it would not be too much trouble, I would shure love to see the pic. I could not seem to find it.
                                                          Thanks, Sean

                                                          Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                          Without all the motors and gears and rigging, the body castings look an awful lot like my Red Ball.  There's a photo in my "Silver Streak" folder, it's there because until I get the rigging replaced it can't be uncoupled from my Silver Streak crane tender :-)  I could send you a better picture if you wanted.
                                                           
                                                          Don
                                                           
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:20 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                          No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean

                                                          Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                          without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged.
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM
                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                          Hey Guys!
                                                          I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                          functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                          in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                          Thanks,
                                                          Sean



                                                          Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.


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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2231 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/23/2007
                                                          Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                          LOL
                                                          Dave S.

                                                          John Hagen wrote:
                                                          Myu older brother stil has an abacus, the kind with beads. He claims it 
                                                          has never froze up and never needed to be restarted.
                                                          
                                                          John Hagen
                                                          
                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
                                                            
                                                          My younger brother still has an Atari 800 XL...
                                                          Dave S.
                                                          
                                                              
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2232 From: John Barlow Date: 1/23/2007
                                                          Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                          Tell him to get modern- a Keuffel & Essel "slip stick" (slide rule.)
                                                           
                                                          John Barlow

                                                          Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
                                                          LOL
                                                          Dave S.

                                                          John Hagen wrote:
                                                          Myu older brother stil has an abacus, the kind with beads. He claims it   has never froze up and never needed to be
                                                           restarted.    John Hagen    --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:    
                                                          My younger brother still has an Atari 800 XL...  Dave S.        
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2233 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/23/2007
                                                          Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                          My computer is even older than the abacus.............
                                                          And when I get up to 10, I have to take my shoes & socks off to get to 20.
                                                          Over that becomes a matter of ingenuity.

                                                          "the old guy in Beaverton.............:-)

                                                          _________________________________________________________________
                                                          Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger
                                                          http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2234 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/23/2007
                                                          Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                          Attachments :
                                                            The frame base looks like the Redball crane as Don has mentioned,
                                                            picture attached of the one I built in the 60's. Roger Aultman





                                                            sean naylor wrote:
                                                            > No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab
                                                            > shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock
                                                            > work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and
                                                            > all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which
                                                            > switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to
                                                            > all be there... Sean
                                                            >
                                                            > Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when
                                                            > properly rigged.
                                                            >
                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > From: a69mustang4me <mailto:a69mustang4me@...>
                                                            > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM
                                                            > Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                            >
                                                            > Hey Guys!
                                                            > I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                            > functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                            > in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                            > Thanks,
                                                            > Sean
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > ?
                                                            >
                                                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                            > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your
                                                            > question on Yahoo! Answers
                                                            > <http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx>.
                                                            >


                                                            --
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                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
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                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2235 From: John Hagen Date: 1/23/2007
                                                            Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                            I know how to get to 21...

                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows"
                                                            <saltnpepper69@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > My computer is even older than the abacus.............
                                                            > And when I get up to 10, I have to take my shoes & socks off to get
                                                            to 20.
                                                            > Over that becomes a matter of ingenuity.
                                                            >
                                                            > "the old guy in Beaverton.............:-)
                                                            >
                                                            > _________________________________________________________________
                                                            > Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger
                                                            > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?
                                                            href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-
                                                            us&source=hmtagline
                                                            >
                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2236 From: John Hagen Date: 1/23/2007
                                                            Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                            I don't know. seems pretty high tech for him. Actually I had
                                                            forgotten all about them things. I went to school back when they
                                                            taught you how to use a slide rule and I got to be rather proficient
                                                            at it. My favorite caliper has a vernier scale on it (yes, I have one
                                                            with a dial indicator too). Unless you damage it somehow, and you
                                                            almost have to purposely damage it, it will never lose it's accuracy.
                                                            I got it back in 1964 for about $25.00, not cheap in those days.

                                                            John Hagen


                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > Tell him to get modern- a Keuffel & Essel "slip stick" (slide rule.)
                                                            >
                                                            > John Barlow
                                                            >
                                                            > Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
                                                            > LOL
                                                            > Dave S.
                                                            >
                                                            > John Hagen wrote:
                                                            > Myu older brother stil has an abacus, the kind with beads. He
                                                            claims it has never froze up and never needed to be restarted.
                                                            John Hagen
                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2237 From: Maryann "Arti" Obuch Date: 1/23/2007
                                                            Subject: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                            I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                            was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                            wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                            what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                            If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                            this group.

                                                            Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                            DU and OA Railway Company
                                                            http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train.html

                                                            PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                            have. See that file for more INFO...
                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2238 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
                                                            Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                            Dear Maryann,
                                                             
                                                            To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                             
                                                            Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                             
                                                            Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@...). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels.com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                            (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                             
                                                            Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpuff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                             
                                                            One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse.com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                             
                                                            I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                             
                                                            John Barlow (jdenver4150@...
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             


                                                            "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@...> wrote:
                                                            I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                            was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                            wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                            what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                            If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                            this group.

                                                            Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                            DU and OA Railway Company
                                                            http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                            PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                            have. See that file for more INFO...



                                                            Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2239 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 1/24/2007
                                                            Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                            No wrath about ebay, but a lot of transactions occur there and it is a good place to check the market on things.  I also go to train shows from time to time and, on average, I think sellers ask for a little more than you can typically get the same thing on ebay.  Even on ebay, some sellers that are in the business seem to ask for, and get, more for things than the rest of us great unwashed.
                                                             
                                                            Some of my own purchases the last few years were:
                                                             
                                                            Athearn Metal Box Car Kit, HO, NP, New  $15.50
                                                            Athearn metal State of Maine Box Car Kit , HO, New  $33.00 (State of Maine being a little more desirable than some others)
                                                            Athearn metal Western Pacific Box Car Kit, HO, New  $20.51
                                                             
                                                            The last 30 days of ebay shows:
                                                             
                                                            A number of Silver Streak kits mainly in the range of about $10 to $20 with one at about $25 and one at about $27.
                                                             
                                                            Ulrich seemed to be about the same story but with many hovering toward the $10 end of things but a few that were higher.
                                                             
                                                            Roundhouse metal freight car kits seemed predominantly an $11 to $17 range.
                                                             
                                                            Red Ball kits seem to pull a little more money on average and had several that were over $30 but most under.  One said $50 but it was for five already built.
                                                             
                                                            Ye Old Huff & Puff also seemed to pull a little more money on average with quite a few in the $20 to $30 range.  (I noticed a "Hommer Climax" engine kit for  $66.51 - you see some interesting things if you start poking around in ebay.)
                                                             
                                                            Quality Craft seems a similar range and there was even a well hole flat car probably like the one on your list (except it was NYC) that sold for $17.02 (item 150080070691).
                                                             
                                                            I couldn't find any wood/metal NMRA kits but there were a lot of plastic ones (of course) almost all $10 or less with one at $51.00
                                                             
                                                            But you never know if one of the things you have has extra interest for some reason.
                                                             
                                                            If I had to make a wild guess, I would say perhaps $15 average for what you have with a couple at $30.  That would be $390 if selling on ebay.  And that could be optimistic.  But I think it is safe to say they are very easily worth double what you paid for them.
                                                             
                                                            Chuck Kinzer
                                                             
                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 1:53 AM
                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                            Dear Maryann,
                                                             
                                                            To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                             
                                                            Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                             
                                                            Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                            (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                             
                                                            Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                             
                                                            One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                             
                                                            I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                             
                                                            John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             


                                                            "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                            I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                            was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                            wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                            what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                            If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                            this group.

                                                            Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                            DU and OA Railway Company
                                                            http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                            PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                            have. See that file for more INFO...



                                                            Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2240 From: sean naylor Date: 1/24/2007
                                                            Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                            Hey Roger,
                                                            Thanks for the pic. I saved it in the same file as mine, I flapped back and forth between the two and I think I agree... So now, how did it get to be functional? I saw one once before on ebay, but I thought it was all brass. (I might be wrong though). Thanks, Sean

                                                            Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                            The frame base looks like the Redball crane as Don has mentioned,
                                                            picture attached of the one I built in the 60's. Roger Aultman

                                                            sean naylor wrote:
                                                            > No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab
                                                            > shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock
                                                            > work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and
                                                            > all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which
                                                            > switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to
                                                            > all be there... Sean
                                                            >
                                                            > Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when
                                                            > properly rigged.
                                                            >
                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > From: a69mustang4me <mailto:a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com>
                                                            > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                            > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM
                                                            > Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                            >
                                                            > Hey Guys!
                                                            > I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                            > functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                            > in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                            > Thanks,
                                                            > Sean
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > ?
                                                            >
                                                            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                            > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your
                                                            > question on Yahoo! Answers
                                                            > <http://answers. yahoo.com/ ;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbG NhMGE3BF9TAzM5Nj U0NTEwOARfcwMzOT Y1NDUxMDMEc2VjA2 1haWxfdGFnbGluZQ RzbGsDbWFpbF90YW cx>.
                                                            >

                                                            --
                                                            http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/



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                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2241 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
                                                            Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                            John!

                                                            Carefull, this is a "family" list" <G>

                                                            Don

                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                            Owner-Moderator
                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                            Co-moderator
                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:12 AM
                                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque


                                                            >I know how to get to 21...
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows"
                                                            > <saltnpepper69@...> wrote:
                                                            >>
                                                            >> My computer is even older than the abacus.............
                                                            >> And when I get up to 10, I have to take my shoes & socks off to get
                                                            > to 20.
                                                            >> Over that becomes a matter of ingenuity.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> "the old guy in Beaverton.............:-)
                                                            >>
                                                            >> _________________________________________________________________
                                                            >> Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger
                                                            >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?
                                                            > href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-
                                                            > us&source=hmtagline
                                                            >>
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2242 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
                                                            Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                            You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                             
                                                            To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector";s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                             
                                                            Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                             
                                                            Don
                                                             
                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                            Dear Maryann,
                                                             
                                                            To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                             
                                                            Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                             
                                                            Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@...). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels.com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                            (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                             
                                                            Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpuff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                             
                                                            One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse.com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                             
                                                            I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                             
                                                            John Barlow (jdenver4150@...
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             


                                                            "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@...> wrote:
                                                            I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                            was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                            wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                            what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                            If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                            this group.

                                                            Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                            DU and OA Railway Company
                                                            http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                            PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                            have. See that file for more INFO...



                                                            Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2243 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
                                                            Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                            Attachments :
                                                              Here's some pics of my Red Ball, compare them to yours.
                                                               
                                                              Don
                                                               
                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                              Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:51 PM
                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                              Hey Don,
                                                              If it would not be too much trouble, I would shure love to see the pic. I could not seem to find it.
                                                              Thanks, Sean

                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2244 From: takefive247 Date: 1/24/2007
                                                              Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                              Thanks guys.
                                                              I did use the #5 but #4 may have been a better choice. Thought
                                                              there might be a dirrect replacement.
                                                              I never gave a thought to the shorting situation. Never had that
                                                              problem. Guess I better rethink things a bit, now that I am changing
                                                              to metal wheel sets and couplers. I was under the impression that
                                                              most replacement wheel sets where insulated from each other and the
                                                              axle.
                                                              Bill


                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                              wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Yeah, some were (and I was picking them up wherever possible),
                                                              some
                                                              > were NOT insulated at all!
                                                              > They were for the outside-third-rail crowd (including drivers!).
                                                              > I have a flatcar on the layout in the basement full of those non-
                                                              > insulated, cast pot-metal wheelsets with all the ribs on the back!
                                                              > If they had the bakelite truck bolster, no problem. Buy, most of
                                                              > mine have the cast center bolsters.
                                                              > I know nobody believes me......and I hate to go dig them out and
                                                              > take a picture...but, I think I have a big box of spare trucks.
                                                              > The problem with the bakelite bolsters is they are drilled with a
                                                              > brass "nail" driven into each end, and over time, crack, allowing
                                                              > the pin to come out, sideframe to drift out, axles to come out of
                                                              > the journals, and drop the whole mess right there.
                                                              > Held to the body with a long brass nail and a hole drolled through
                                                              > the end, and a cotter key.
                                                              > I used to keep all the leftover bits from carburettor rebuilds to
                                                              > get those small cotter keys.
                                                              >
                                                              > Dave
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Most of the Scale Craft cars I have seen (O and OO) had axles
                                                              sort
                                                              > of like the present-day Athearn diesels--short stub axles with
                                                              > insulating tube between. Bolsters were a block of Bakelite. So
                                                              > they were effectively fully insulated. gj
                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > > From: curmudgeon
                                                              > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:14 PM
                                                              > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides
                                                              of
                                                              > the
                                                              > > truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the
                                                              box
                                                              > I'd
                                                              > > know) and one at the "front".
                                                              > >
                                                              > > I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on
                                                              > them
                                                              > > when I gave up.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with
                                                              > metal
                                                              > > wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several
                                                              > cars
                                                              > > with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left
                                                              > wheels
                                                              > > grounded--Instant short on coupling!
                                                              > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > > > From: curmudgeon
                                                              > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM
                                                              > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side
                                                              > only.
                                                              > > > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side!
                                                              > > > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what
                                                              > isn't
                                                              > > can
                                                              > > > be a trip.
                                                              > > > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even
                                                              > > > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult.
                                                              > > > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR
                                                              get
                                                              > > all
                                                              > > > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30
                                                              > old
                                                              > > > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early
                                                              > > metal
                                                              > > > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box
                                                              > > touches
                                                              > > > the frame.
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Dave
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage
                                                              > > rolling
                                                              > > > stock. I
                                                              > > > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other
                                                              > applications.
                                                              > > > They are not
                                                              > > > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I
                                                              > can't
                                                              > > > imagine being
                                                              > > > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid
                                                              has
                                                              > > > smaller fingers,
                                                              > > > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I
                                                              > need
                                                              > > to
                                                              > > > find a
                                                              > > > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when
                                                              > > using
                                                              > > > these.
                                                              > > > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to
                                                              > ensure
                                                              > > > proper
                                                              > > > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I
                                                              > have
                                                              > > > never had a
                                                              > > > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when
                                                              > > using
                                                              > > > these.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Vic Bitleris
                                                              > > > > Raleigh, NC
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                              > > > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@>
                                                              > > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                              > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Bill,
                                                              > > > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                              > > > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                              > > > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                              > > > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company
                                                              > produced
                                                              > > > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different
                                                              brands
                                                              > > didn't
                                                              > > > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that
                                                              > caused
                                                              > > > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a
                                                              coiled
                                                              > > > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to
                                                              > > limit
                                                              > > > slack,
                                                              > > > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                              > > > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging
                                                              car
                                                              > > kits.
                                                              > > > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow
                                                              > draft
                                                              > > > > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on
                                                              their
                                                              > > > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to
                                                              > adapt
                                                              > > > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Regards,
                                                              > > > > Bill Nielsen
                                                              > > > > Oakland Park, FL
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@>
                                                              > > > > wrote:
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                              > > > > Bobber
                                                              > > > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same
                                                              > frame
                                                              > > > > as was
                                                              > > > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                              > > > > correct for
                                                              > > > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > Thanks
                                                              > > > > > Bill
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > __________________________________________________________
                                                              > > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get
                                                              > all
                                                              > > the
                                                              > > > scoop.
                                                              > > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > >
                                                              >
                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2245 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
                                                              Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
                                                              Dear Don and Group,
                                                               
                                                              Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                               
                                                              John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                              Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                              You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                               
                                                              To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                               
                                                              Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                               
                                                              Don
                                                               
                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                              Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                              Dear Maryann,
                                                               
                                                              To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                               
                                                              Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                               
                                                              Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                              (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                               
                                                              Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                               
                                                              One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                               
                                                              I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                               
                                                              John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               


                                                              "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                              I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                              was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                              wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                              what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                              If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                              this group.

                                                              Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                              DU and OA Railway Company
                                                              http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                              PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                              have. See that file for more INFO...



                                                              Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.


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                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2246 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/24/2007
                                                              Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                              Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the
                                                              best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you can
                                                              pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several of
                                                              these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a
                                                              vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true
                                                              representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeastern cars as
                                                              I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                              properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course one
                                                              likes to build these.

                                                              Vic Bitleris
                                                              Raleigh, NC



                                                              ----Original Message Follows----
                                                              From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                              Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                              Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:10:21 -0600

                                                              You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but
                                                              they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally
                                                              made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.

                                                              To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets"
                                                              have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows. I prefer eBay, and I've
                                                              found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare,
                                                              is around $10.00 each. The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car,
                                                              although I've seen those go for as much as $40. The price and demand for
                                                              these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer
                                                              "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and
                                                              effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector";s eye yet like
                                                              the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have. Those I'd
                                                              guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.

                                                              Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall
                                                              for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are
                                                              actually more of these kits out there than you'd think. As far as built or
                                                              rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple
                                                              weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week
                                                              as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get
                                                              rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).

                                                              Don

                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                              Co-moderator
                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                              From: John Barlow
                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?


                                                              Dear Maryann,

                                                              To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it
                                                              depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other
                                                              site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't
                                                              find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was
                                                              a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.

                                                              Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not
                                                              primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the
                                                              country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big
                                                              shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever
                                                              (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may
                                                              find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish
                                                              because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon &
                                                              Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't
                                                              believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still
                                                              very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out
                                                              on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I
                                                              bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a
                                                              suburb of Denver.

                                                              Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking
                                                              Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@...). The
                                                              kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the
                                                              trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they
                                                              provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try
                                                              www.labellemodels.com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the
                                                              one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose.
                                                              So it goes.
                                                              (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the
                                                              wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as
                                                              wood."

                                                              Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in
                                                              decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpuff.com. They are a
                                                              carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they
                                                              still use. The have pre-painted/printed wooden sides and some metal
                                                              parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You
                                                              won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present
                                                              clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.

                                                              One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at
                                                              www.mrrwarehouse.com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of
                                                              wood and metal.

                                                              I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think)
                                                              who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South
                                                              African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially
                                                              palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for
                                                              hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles.
                                                              Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a
                                                              depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian
                                                              Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still
                                                              being made today.

                                                              John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)









                                                              "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@...> wrote:
                                                              I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                              was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                              wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                              what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                              If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                              this group.

                                                              Yours Truly, Maryann.
                                                              DU and OA Railway Company
                                                              http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train.html

                                                              PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                              have. See that file for more INFO...






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                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2247 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/24/2007
                                                              Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                              For sure Kadee wheelsets are, they use a plastic (Delrin ?) axle. I cannot
                                                              remember if the P2K wheelsets do or not. But those are the brands I
                                                              primarily use for replacements.

                                                              Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                              Raleigh, NC



                                                              ----Original Message Follows----
                                                              From: "takefive247" <takefive@...>
                                                              Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                              Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:05:16 -0000

                                                              Thanks guys.
                                                              I did use the #5 but #4 may have been a better choice. Thought
                                                              there might be a dirrect replacement.
                                                              I never gave a thought to the shorting situation. Never had that
                                                              problem. Guess I better rethink things a bit, now that I am changing
                                                              to metal wheel sets and couplers. I was under the impression that
                                                              most replacement wheel sets where insulated from each other and the
                                                              axle.
                                                              Bill


                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                              wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Yeah, some were (and I was picking them up wherever possible),
                                                              some
                                                              > were NOT insulated at all!
                                                              > They were for the outside-third-rail crowd (including drivers!).
                                                              > I have a flatcar on the layout in the basement full of those non-
                                                              > insulated, cast pot-metal wheelsets with all the ribs on the back!
                                                              > If they had the bakelite truck bolster, no problem. Buy, most of
                                                              > mine have the cast center bolsters.
                                                              > I know nobody believes me......and I hate to go dig them out and
                                                              > take a picture...but, I think I have a big box of spare trucks.
                                                              > The problem with the bakelite bolsters is they are drilled with a
                                                              > brass "nail" driven into each end, and over time, crack, allowing
                                                              > the pin to come out, sideframe to drift out, axles to come out of
                                                              > the journals, and drop the whole mess right there.
                                                              > Held to the body with a long brass nail and a hole drolled through
                                                              > the end, and a cotter key.
                                                              > I used to keep all the leftover bits from carburettor rebuilds to
                                                              > get those small cotter keys.
                                                              >
                                                              > Dave
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Most of the Scale Craft cars I have seen (O and OO) had axles
                                                              sort
                                                              > of like the present-day Athearn diesels--short stub axles with
                                                              > insulating tube between. Bolsters were a block of Bakelite. So
                                                              > they were effectively fully insulated. gj
                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > > From: curmudgeon
                                                              > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:14 PM
                                                              > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides
                                                              of
                                                              > the
                                                              > > truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the
                                                              box
                                                              > I'd
                                                              > > know) and one at the "front".
                                                              > >
                                                              > > I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on
                                                              > them
                                                              > > when I gave up.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with
                                                              > metal
                                                              > > wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several
                                                              > cars
                                                              > > with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left
                                                              > wheels
                                                              > > grounded--Instant short on coupling!
                                                              > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > > > From: curmudgeon
                                                              > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM
                                                              > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side
                                                              > only.
                                                              > > > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side!
                                                              > > > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what
                                                              > isn't
                                                              > > can
                                                              > > > be a trip.
                                                              > > > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even
                                                              > > > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult.
                                                              > > > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR
                                                              get
                                                              > > all
                                                              > > > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30
                                                              > old
                                                              > > > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early
                                                              > > metal
                                                              > > > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box
                                                              > > touches
                                                              > > > the frame.
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Dave
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage
                                                              > > rolling
                                                              > > > stock. I
                                                              > > > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other
                                                              > applications.
                                                              > > > They are not
                                                              > > > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I
                                                              > can't
                                                              > > > imagine being
                                                              > > > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid
                                                              has
                                                              > > > smaller fingers,
                                                              > > > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I
                                                              > need
                                                              > > to
                                                              > > > find a
                                                              > > > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when
                                                              > > using
                                                              > > > these.
                                                              > > > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to
                                                              > ensure
                                                              > > > proper
                                                              > > > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I
                                                              > have
                                                              > > > never had a
                                                              > > > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when
                                                              > > using
                                                              > > > these.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Vic Bitleris
                                                              > > > > Raleigh, NC
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                              > > > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@>
                                                              > > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                              > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Bill,
                                                              > > > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                              > > > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                              > > > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                              > > > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company
                                                              > produced
                                                              > > > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different
                                                              brands
                                                              > > didn't
                                                              > > > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that
                                                              > caused
                                                              > > > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a
                                                              coiled
                                                              > > > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to
                                                              > > limit
                                                              > > > slack,
                                                              > > > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                              > > > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging
                                                              car
                                                              > > kits.
                                                              > > > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow
                                                              > draft
                                                              > > > > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on
                                                              their
                                                              > > > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to
                                                              > adapt
                                                              > > > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Regards,
                                                              > > > > Bill Nielsen
                                                              > > > > Oakland Park, FL
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@>
                                                              > > > > wrote:
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                              > > > > Bobber
                                                              > > > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same
                                                              > frame
                                                              > > > > as was
                                                              > > > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                              > > > > correct for
                                                              > > > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > Thanks
                                                              > > > > > Bill
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > __________________________________________________________
                                                              > > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get
                                                              > all
                                                              > > the
                                                              > > > scoop.
                                                              > > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > >
                                                              >

                                                              _________________________________________________________________
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                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2248 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
                                                              Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                              Attachments :
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?


                                                                > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the
                                                                > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you
                                                                > can
                                                                > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several
                                                                > of
                                                                > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a
                                                                > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true
                                                                > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeastern cars
                                                                > as
                                                                > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course
                                                                > one
                                                                > likes to build these.
                                                                >
                                                                > Vic Bitleris
                                                                > Raleigh, NC

                                                                Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G>

                                                                Don
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2249 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                                I use a lot of intermountains, and I believe they are insulated one side
                                                                only. If you look close, you'll see one end of the axle has a tiny black
                                                                sleeve between it and the wheel.

                                                                Don

                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:52 AM
                                                                Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question


                                                                > For sure Kadee wheelsets are, they use a plastic (Delrin ?) axle. I
                                                                > cannot
                                                                > remember if the P2K wheelsets do or not. But those are the brands I
                                                                > primarily use for replacements.
                                                                >
                                                                > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                > Raleigh, NC
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                > From: "takefive247" <takefive@...>
                                                                > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                                > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:05:16 -0000
                                                                >
                                                                > Thanks guys.
                                                                > I did use the #5 but #4 may have been a better choice. Thought
                                                                > there might be a dirrect replacement.
                                                                > I never gave a thought to the shorting situation. Never had that
                                                                > problem. Guess I better rethink things a bit, now that I am changing
                                                                > to metal wheel sets and couplers. I was under the impression that
                                                                > most replacement wheel sets where insulated from each other and the
                                                                > axle.
                                                                > Bill
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                > wrote:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Yeah, some were (and I was picking them up wherever possible),
                                                                > some
                                                                > > were NOT insulated at all!
                                                                > > They were for the outside-third-rail crowd (including drivers!).
                                                                > > I have a flatcar on the layout in the basement full of those non-
                                                                > > insulated, cast pot-metal wheelsets with all the ribs on the back!
                                                                > > If they had the bakelite truck bolster, no problem. Buy, most of
                                                                > > mine have the cast center bolsters.
                                                                > > I know nobody believes me......and I hate to go dig them out and
                                                                > > take a picture...but, I think I have a big box of spare trucks.
                                                                > > The problem with the bakelite bolsters is they are drilled with a
                                                                > > brass "nail" driven into each end, and over time, crack, allowing
                                                                > > the pin to come out, sideframe to drift out, axles to come out of
                                                                > > the journals, and drop the whole mess right there.
                                                                > > Held to the body with a long brass nail and a hole drolled through
                                                                > > the end, and a cotter key.
                                                                > > I used to keep all the leftover bits from carburettor rebuilds to
                                                                > > get those small cotter keys.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Dave
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Most of the Scale Craft cars I have seen (O and OO) had axles
                                                                > sort
                                                                > > of like the present-day Athearn diesels--short stub axles with
                                                                > > insulating tube between. Bolsters were a block of Bakelite. So
                                                                > > they were effectively fully insulated. gj
                                                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > > > From: curmudgeon
                                                                > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:14 PM
                                                                > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > My ScaleCraft cars, I put a white dot on the insulated sides
                                                                > of
                                                                > > the
                                                                > > > truck bolster, on the frame bolster (so if one turned in the
                                                                > box
                                                                > > I'd
                                                                > > > know) and one at the "front".
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > I was in the process of putting double-insulated wheelsets on
                                                                > > them
                                                                > > > when I gave up.
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > Sometimes a really baffling short could occur--a car with
                                                                > > metal
                                                                > > > wheels on the right-hand rail--just fine--coupled to several
                                                                > > cars
                                                                > > > with all wheels insulated--then couple to a car with the left
                                                                > > wheels
                                                                > > > grounded--Instant short on coupling!
                                                                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > > > > From: curmudgeon
                                                                > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:13 PM
                                                                > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > Especially if the wheels are varnish-insulated on one side
                                                                > > only.
                                                                > > > > They need to ALL be insulated on the same side!
                                                                > > > > And, sometimes, discerning what is a varnish mark and what
                                                                > > isn't
                                                                > > > can
                                                                > > > > be a trip.
                                                                > > > > We didn't have cheap ohmmeters when I was a kid (hadn't even
                                                                > > > > invented Ohm's Law yet), so it was difficult.
                                                                > > > > Plus, if using metal couplers, have to either insulate OR
                                                                > get
                                                                > > > all
                                                                > > > > the cars with the insulation on the same side (I have 20-30
                                                                > > old
                                                                > > > > ScaleCraft "0" cars like that). Manyua, Baker, Varney, early
                                                                > > > metal
                                                                > > > > Kadee, all should be insulated from the draft box IF the box
                                                                > > > touches
                                                                > > > > the frame.
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > Dave
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > Yes, these are pretty good couplers for a lot of Vintage
                                                                > > > rolling
                                                                > > > > stock. I
                                                                > > > > > used these for my older MDC cars and some other
                                                                > > applications.
                                                                > > > > They are not
                                                                > > > > > the easiest things to build, but they do fill a need. I
                                                                > > can't
                                                                > > > > imagine being
                                                                > > > > > a kid and putting one of these together, although a kid
                                                                > has
                                                                > > > > smaller fingers,
                                                                > > > > > better eyes and oftentimes, more patience. Hmmm. Maybe I
                                                                > > need
                                                                > > > to
                                                                > > > > find a
                                                                > > > > > kid to help out. There is one thing to watch out for when
                                                                > > > using
                                                                > > > > these.
                                                                > > > > > These are ALL metal and you will need to be careful to
                                                                > > ensure
                                                                > > > > proper
                                                                > > > > > insulation of wheels when using these with metal cars. I
                                                                > > have
                                                                > > > > never had a
                                                                > > > > > problem personally, but heard you could have a short when
                                                                > > > using
                                                                > > > > these.
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > Vic Bitleris
                                                                > > > > > Raleigh, NC
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                > > > > > From: "William Nielsen" <wrangler@>
                                                                > > > > > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua coupler question
                                                                > > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:02:39 -0000
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > Bill,
                                                                > > > > > Have you checked out the Kadee #4? It's the only one I
                                                                > > > > > remember using on some of my old Mantua cars (I think one
                                                                > > > > > was even a Bobber caboose) many years ago. This was just
                                                                > > > > > after the market shifted to the X2f, and every company
                                                                > > produced
                                                                > > > > > an X2f clone with different dimensions, so different
                                                                > brands
                                                                > > > didn't
                                                                > > > > > work well together. It was this experience as a kid that
                                                                > > caused
                                                                > > > > > me to go to Kadee couplers exclusively. The #4 used a
                                                                > coiled
                                                                > > > > > centering spring with a little tiny metal dowel inside to
                                                                > > > limit
                                                                > > > > slack,
                                                                > > > > > which, when combined with knuckle slop was pretty severe. I
                                                                > > > > > believe Kadee still uses these on some of their logging
                                                                > car
                                                                > > > kits.
                                                                > > > > > Another option would be to check out their newer, narrow
                                                                > > draft
                                                                > > > > > gear, closer-to-scale-profile couplers like they use on
                                                                > their
                                                                > > > > > currently available RTR freight cars. You may be able to
                                                                > > adapt
                                                                > > > > > these, somehow. Good luck, and if you succeed, let us know!
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > Regards,
                                                                > > > > > Bill Nielsen
                                                                > > > > > Oakland Park, FL
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@>
                                                                > > > > > wrote:
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > Would anyone know what KD coupler will fit the old Mantua
                                                                > > > > > Bobber
                                                                > > > > > > caboose with the long narrow gear box? It has the same
                                                                > > frame
                                                                > > > > > as was
                                                                > > > > > > used with the loop and hook coupler,but with a spacer to
                                                                > > > > > correct for
                                                                > > > > > > the taper needed for the loop and hook.
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > Thanks
                                                                > > > > > > Bill
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > __________________________________________________________
                                                                > > > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get
                                                                > > all
                                                                > > > the
                                                                > > > > scoop.
                                                                > > > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > >
                                                                >
                                                                > _________________________________________________________________
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                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2250 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
                                                                I wasn't sure, because word on the web about a year ago was that the owner was wanting to retire and looking for someone to take over the line. 
                                                                 
                                                                That brings up one of the REAL reasons you don't see a lot of craftsman type kits anymore, not so much that there isn't a market, but that there aren't any younger people willing to take over a business that, let's face it, is more of a "labor of love" than a money-making proposition. 
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:54 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Don and Group,
                                                                 
                                                                Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                 
                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                 
                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,
                                                                 
                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                 
                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                 
                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                 
                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                 
                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                 
                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...



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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2251 From: John Hagen Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                                You mean I can't count my nose?

                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > John!
                                                                >
                                                                > Carefull, this is a "family" list" <G>
                                                                >
                                                                > Don
                                                                >
                                                                > don.dellmann@...
                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                > Owner-Moderator
                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                > Co-moderator
                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                >
                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:12 AM
                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > >I know how to get to 21...
                                                                > >
                                                                > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows"
                                                                > > <saltnpepper69@> wrote:
                                                                > >>
                                                                > >> My computer is even older than the abacus.............
                                                                > >> And when I get up to 10, I have to take my shoes & socks off to
                                                                get
                                                                > > to 20.
                                                                > >> Over that becomes a matter of ingenuity.
                                                                > >>
                                                                > >> "the old guy in Beaverton.............:-)
                                                                > >>
                                                                > >>
                                                                _________________________________________________________________
                                                                > >> Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger
                                                                > >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?
                                                                > > href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?
                                                                locale=en-
                                                                > > us&source=hmtagline
                                                                > >>
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                >
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2252 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o)

                                                                Vic Bitleris
                                                                Raleigh, NC



                                                                ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600


                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?


                                                                > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the
                                                                > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you
                                                                > can
                                                                > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several
                                                                > of
                                                                > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a
                                                                > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true
                                                                > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeastern cars
                                                                > as
                                                                > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course
                                                                > one
                                                                > likes to build these.
                                                                >
                                                                > Vic Bitleris
                                                                > Raleigh, NC

                                                                Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G>

                                                                Don



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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2253 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Vintage and Prototype (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)
                                                                I agree with you on the Ambroid/Northeastern and throw in Quality Craft/Cloorcraft for older, wooden material kits, many of which were intended to simulate metal (steel) cars, very, very close in appearance with the older layers of sanding sealer and fine steel wool treatment before color(s) was (were) applied. Back in the 1970's, the only competition were more expensive brass cars. Then came resin. I think the classic wooden kits will draw the most money unless you are building a 1950's type layout, replete with brass track. In such a case, the layout itself is the key vis-a-vis the layout's theme of operation. 
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...

                                                                Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
                                                                Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the
                                                                best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you can
                                                                pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several of
                                                                these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a
                                                                vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true
                                                                representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeaster n cars as
                                                                I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course one
                                                                likes to build these.

                                                                Vic Bitleris
                                                                Raleigh, NC

                                                                ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net>
                                                                Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:10:21 -0600

                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but
                                                                they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally
                                                                made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.

                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets"
                                                                have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows. I prefer eBay, and I've
                                                                found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare,
                                                                is around $10.00 each. The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car,
                                                                although I've seen those go for as much as $40. The price and demand for
                                                                these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer
                                                                "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and
                                                                effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like
                                                                the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have. Those I'd
                                                                guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.

                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall
                                                                for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are
                                                                actually more of these kits out there than you'd think. As far as built or
                                                                rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple
                                                                weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week
                                                                as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get
                                                                rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).

                                                                Don

                                                                don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                Owner-Moderator
                                                                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
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                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                From: John Barlow
                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,

                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it
                                                                depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other
                                                                site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't
                                                                find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was
                                                                a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.

                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not
                                                                primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the
                                                                country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big
                                                                shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever
                                                                (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may
                                                                find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish
                                                                because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon &
                                                                Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't
                                                                believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still
                                                                very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out
                                                                on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I
                                                                bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a
                                                                suburb of Denver.

                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking
                                                                Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The
                                                                kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the
                                                                trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they
                                                                provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try
                                                                www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the
                                                                one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose.
                                                                So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the
                                                                wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as
                                                                wood."

                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in
                                                                decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a
                                                                carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they
                                                                still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal
                                                                parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You
                                                                won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present
                                                                clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.

                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at
                                                                www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of
                                                                wood and metal.

                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think)
                                                                who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South
                                                                African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially
                                                                palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for
                                                                hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles.
                                                                Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a
                                                                depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian
                                                                Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still
                                                                being made today.

                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann.
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...

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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2254 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                I have a few wood and card kits of freight rolling stock for sale or trade if anyone wants them. Made by Megow during WW2, unassembled, in original boxes.
                                                                 
                                                                Best to contact me off-list to avoid blocking the bandwidth.
                                                                 
                                                                Cheers,
                                                                Andy Emmerson.
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2255 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                                I think that Red Ball had a crane--and that is reminiscent of their construction---but the works may well be acratchbuilt.  I certainly don't recall a motorized crane as a regular offering.
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 6:20 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                                No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:

                                                                without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged.
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM
                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                                Hey Guys!
                                                                I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                                functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                                in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                                Thanks,
                                                                Sean



                                                                Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.

                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2256 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                                Get -A- Mac............

                                                                Why stop there ???

                                                                ;^)

                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                On Jan 23, 2007, at 9:08 AM, John Hagen wrote:

                                                                > Jeez, you guys. Either get a Mac or stop your whining! You two sound
                                                                > like a couple of Milwaukeens (Where the street car bends the corner
                                                                > around).
                                                                >
                                                                > John Hagen
                                                                >
                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                >>
                                                                >> I feel the same way about my Windows system.......... Most of the
                                                                >> time I use a different computer that I feel much better about.
                                                                >>
                                                                >> I feel uncomfortable about my needs to put Windows on my new
                                                                >> computer, soon to be new computers, as a second language. Although
                                                                > I
                                                                >> do think I've got 'W' pretty well tamed. I feel guilty about using
                                                                >> the whip and chair on it so often.
                                                                >>
                                                                >> ;^)
                                                                >> On Jan 21, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                                >>
                                                                >>> during working on some problems with the confuser I managed to
                                                                > turn
                                                                >>> on spell check on the outgoing email--AMAZING WHAT I AM HAVING
                                                                > TO
                                                                >>> TELL THIS DUMB MACHINE-- besides that dammmthing adding to it. gj
                                                                >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                >>> From: Don Dellmann
                                                                >>> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                >>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:57 PM
                                                                >>> Subject: [vintageHO] MORE Junque
                                                                >>>
                                                                >>> Got one of the three wood quad hoppers done. I'm assuming these
                                                                > are
                                                                >>> kits,
                                                                >>> because the sides are milled, but I have no idea who's they are.
                                                                >>>
                                                                >>> Don
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2257 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: MORE Junque
                                                                Remember Gallagher's "Apple Computer"? (For those who don't--an abacus with apples on the rods.)
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                From: John Hagen
                                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:18 PM
                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MORE Junque

                                                                Myu older brother stil has an abacus, the kind with beads. He claims it
                                                                has never froze up and never needed to be restarted.

                                                                John Hagen

                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Dave Slater <daslater@.. .> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > My younger brother still has an Atari 800 XL...
                                                                > Dave S.
                                                                >

                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2258 From: bitlerisvj Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have
                                                                some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as
                                                                later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I
                                                                thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit.
                                                                This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them
                                                                all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire
                                                                (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get
                                                                done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me
                                                                longer.
                                                                Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
                                                                wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o)
                                                                >
                                                                > Vic Bitleris
                                                                > Raleigh, NC
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM
                                                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some
                                                                of the
                                                                > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern.
                                                                Usually, you
                                                                > > can
                                                                > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows.
                                                                Several
                                                                > > of
                                                                > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the
                                                                bid for a
                                                                > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than
                                                                a true
                                                                > > representation of the value. I really love the
                                                                Ambroid/Northeastern cars
                                                                > > as
                                                                > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of
                                                                course
                                                                > > one
                                                                > > likes to build these.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Vic Bitleris
                                                                > > Raleigh, NC
                                                                >
                                                                > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G>
                                                                >
                                                                > Don
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > << MILW451600.jpg >>
                                                                >
                                                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                                                > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide
                                                                to the
                                                                > Academy Awards®
                                                                > http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1
                                                                >
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2259 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
                                                                Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Don and Group,
                                                                 
                                                                Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                 
                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                 
                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,
                                                                 
                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                 
                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                 
                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                 
                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                 
                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                 
                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...



                                                                Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.


                                                                Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.


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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2260 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                All depends on how many people want them and how badly they want them. 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:58 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?


                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com>
                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some of the
                                                                > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern. Usually, you
                                                                > can
                                                                > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows. Several
                                                                > of
                                                                > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the bid for a
                                                                > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than a true
                                                                > representation of the value. I really love the Ambroid/Northeaster n cars
                                                                > as
                                                                > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of course
                                                                > one
                                                                > likes to build these.
                                                                >
                                                                > Vic Bitleris
                                                                > Raleigh, NC

                                                                Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G>

                                                                Don

                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2261 From: sean naylor Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                                Yeah Glenn, The more I look at it. The more I think that as well. The build is not clean enough to be a kit. But man is it genious! It looks very well thought out, but made up of salvaged parts. I figured out one lever has three positions (not locking) engage the large cab turning gear - neutral - engage a cable pulley (I am not sure if it is to raise the boom or hook) There is another lever on the other side (opposite as the side shown in the pic. I have not figuted out a use for yet.. It has a ~ half inch gear with a flat section attached at the pivot point of the lever. Lift up on the lever and it engages a gear. However the end of the lever seems to have a hook like feature. Have not figured out what it is for or attaches to yet either..
                                                                Sean

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                I think that Red Ball had a crane--and that is reminiscent of their construction- --but the works may well be acratchbuilt.  I certainly don't recall a motorized crane as a regular offering.
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 6:20 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                                No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with clock work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing, pullies and all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it seems to all be there... Sean

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when properly rigged.
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM
                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?

                                                                Hey Guys!
                                                                I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                                functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                                in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                                Thanks,
                                                                Sean



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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2262 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
                                                                Dear Glenn,
                                                                 
                                                                I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...0

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Don and Group,
                                                                 
                                                                Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                 
                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                 
                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,
                                                                 
                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                 
                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                 
                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                 
                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                 
                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                 
                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...



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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2263 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
                                                                My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one.
                                                                On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
                                                                OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have
                                                                some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as
                                                                later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I
                                                                thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit.
                                                                This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them
                                                                all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire
                                                                (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get
                                                                done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me
                                                                longer.
                                                                Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o)
                                                                >
                                                                > Vic Bitleris
                                                                > Raleigh, NC
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM
                                                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some
                                                                of the
                                                                > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern.
                                                                Usually, you
                                                                > > can
                                                                > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows.
                                                                Several
                                                                > > of
                                                                > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the
                                                                bid for a
                                                                > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than
                                                                a true
                                                                > > representation of the value. I really love the
                                                                Ambroid/Northeaster n cars
                                                                > > as
                                                                > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of
                                                                course
                                                                > > one
                                                                > > likes to build these.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Vic Bitleris
                                                                > > Raleigh, NC
                                                                >
                                                                > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G>
                                                                >
                                                                > Don
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > << MILW451600.jpg >>
                                                                >
                                                                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide
                                                                to the
                                                                > Academy Awards®
                                                                > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1
                                                                >



                                                                The fish are biting.
                                                                Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2264 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
                                                                That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.
                                                                 
                                                                Wobbly913

                                                                John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                Dear Glenn,
                                                                 
                                                                I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...0

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Don and Group,
                                                                 
                                                                Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                 
                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                 
                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,
                                                                 
                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                 
                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                 
                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                 
                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                 
                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                 
                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...



                                                                Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.


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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2265 From: John Barlow Date: 1/24/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
                                                                Without getting too far afield from vintage wooden and metal kits, I think the subject of absentee purchase" is a worthwhile subject. I do not do eBay, but that is not because of any bad purchases. I simply don't care for the auction process. You sell at a price-I buy or don't-end of that. With private kit sellers I have had no problems, and the only recent one is with a business that simply says it never received my mail with money order. Fine! I go from there. I still see two "shops" advertised on line that I had issues with but back in the 1990's. I won't do business with them today but I got my money back. One, related to the original subject, wanted to charge me extra for the sprung trucks that came with the Ulrich metal kit which had directions that showed they were part of it. Do business through the mail and try that-trouble for the rip-off artist. I got the complete kit (with trucks)...end of doing business with that individual firm.
                                                                 
                                                                Finding reliable model railroad sources is really "hit and miss", but by retaining money order or postal money order or cashier check (for more expensive items) stubs and going by mail...the shady dealer runs a big risk-especially if the victim presents documentation to his/her advertising source (like Model Railroader or Railroad Model Craftsman, et al).
                                                                Even having an original ad in a mag, that is received through the mails, brings in the P.O., and most publishers don't want that kind of involvement....and may contact the offender in some cases to get the matter properly resolved. The real stinkers in the trade reveal their nature all too soon, and any fool who does or continues to do business with them runs a high risk of rip-off.
                                                                 
                                                                I use what I mentioned to assure the seller that I am providing the closest thing to cash in hand...no dubious personal checks and no credit card info that may have me finding charges on bills to a firm long after we ever did a given or last business transaction. Done and done!
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                 
                                                                 

                                                                Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                                That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.
                                                                 
                                                                Wobbly913

                                                                John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                Dear Glenn,
                                                                 
                                                                I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Don and Group,
                                                                 
                                                                Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                 
                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                 
                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,
                                                                 
                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                 
                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                 
                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                 
                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                 
                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                 
                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...



                                                                Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.


                                                                Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.

                                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.


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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2266 From: John Barlow Date: 1/25/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
                                                                Dear Group,
                                                                 
                                                                There are ways to save yourself headaches up front...be it an on-line ad or in a mag. Call (telephone) or email the seller first to see if it is still available. If it isn't...it simply isn't. If it is, make your arrangements and ask about the model (if not displayed) and go from there.
                                                                 
                                                                In one recent case I contacted an on-line source who turned out to be the "go-between" between the owner and any potential buyer (such as I was then.) As it turned out, the model was not even in-house. That widened my eyebrows, but the consignment person was (to me) up front and eventually told me the owner had subsequently sold his model (brass freight car) elsewhere. Oh well...no money sent...no harm. BUT, I rechecked the list the consignment dealer has on-line and that item is still listed. Now, I ask, what gives?
                                                                 
                                                                Some sellers (and I include shops) are sloppy about timely updates. Some only may do them periodically, and that can be frustrating (maybe the case I mentioned is just such a one.) Others...is it really a case of intended "bait and switch"..."I don't have that, but I do have this other thing..."? Experience with shops on-line and their systems tell me how relatively timely they are or are not. One shop back East I called three times about Internet items listed, and all three times they claimed the respective item was really already sold. I got to wondering if they really wanted to do any business outside their immediate geographical area. You never know. And their prices were too good-if not unbelieveable-and you know that old story.
                                                                 
                                                                There are good things out there. Hopefully, modelers may be more often pleasantly surprised with simple honestly and caution. I try to keep it a simple transaction and deal truthfully and honestly from my end. If I get the same back...it's a good day when the UPS or Postman arrives.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                  


                                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2267 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/25/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                                Thats the 64 dollar question Sean, wonder if there was ever a magazine
                                                                article on powering a crane? Looks to be home built rather that
                                                                factory, if you can get into Kalmbachs magazine index it might be
                                                                possible to search for a crane powering article. Roger




                                                                sean naylor wrote:
                                                                > Hey Roger,
                                                                > Thanks for the pic. I saved it in the same file as mine, I flapped back
                                                                > and forth between the two and I think I agree... So now, how did it get
                                                                > to be functional? I saw one once before on ebay, but I thought it was
                                                                > all brass. (I might be wrong though). Thanks, Sean
                                                                >
                                                                > Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > The frame base looks like the Redball crane as Don has mentioned,
                                                                > picture attached of the one I built in the 60's. Roger Aultman
                                                                >
                                                                > sean naylor wrote:
                                                                > > No, not Athearn... The base is a mix of wood and cast. The body/cab
                                                                > > shell is a wood and tin mix and by fully finctioning, I mean with
                                                                > clock
                                                                > > work like gears and a motor, which powers the entire thing,
                                                                > pullies and
                                                                > > all. It seems to have a couple of different clutch-like levers which
                                                                > > switch operations.. It needs to ne completly gone over, but it
                                                                > seems to
                                                                > > all be there... Sean
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Glenn Joesten <glenn476@... <mailto:glenn476%40tco.net>> wrote:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > without going to the pix--is it Athearn??they worked very well when
                                                                > > properly rigged.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > > From: a69mustang4me <mailto:a69mustang4me@...
                                                                > <mailto:a69mustang4me%40yahoo.com>>
                                                                > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                                > <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                                                > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:23 PM
                                                                > > Subject: [vintageHO] Fully functioning crane... Who made it?
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Hey Guys!
                                                                > > I just picked up a lot and found a interesting surprise... a fully
                                                                > > functioning crane.!!?? Any ideas who made it? I just posted pics
                                                                > > in "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder.
                                                                > > Thanks,
                                                                > > Sean
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > > ?
                                                                > >
                                                                > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                                > > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask
                                                                > your
                                                                > > question on Yahoo! Answers
                                                                > >
                                                                > <http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx
                                                                > <http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx>>.
                                                                >
                                                                > >
                                                                >
                                                                > --
                                                                > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                > <http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm>
                                                                >
                                                                > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/>
                                                                >
                                                                >
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                                                                >
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                                                                Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2268 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/25/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
                                                                Yep, ALWAYS call or email in advance. Since the advent of Internet
                                                                advertising, I can see that a lot of sellers are quick to put their stuff
                                                                out there to advertise, but not very quick about keeping it up to date. I
                                                                can't tell you how many times I called or emailed and found that the item
                                                                has long disappeared from their stock.

                                                                Vic Bitleris
                                                                Raleigh, NC



                                                                ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
                                                                Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:55:06 -0800 (PST)

                                                                Dear Group,

                                                                There are ways to save yourself headaches up front...be it an on-line ad
                                                                or in a mag. Call (telephone) or email the seller first to see if it is
                                                                still available. If it isn't...it simply isn't. If it is, make your
                                                                arrangements and ask about the model (if not displayed) and go from there.

                                                                In one recent case I contacted an on-line source who turned out to be the
                                                                "go-between" between the owner and any potential buyer (such as I was then.)
                                                                As it turned out, the model was not even in-house. That widened my eyebrows,
                                                                but the consignment person was (to me) up front and eventually told me the
                                                                owner had subsequently sold his model (brass freight car) elsewhere. Oh
                                                                well...no money sent...no harm. BUT, I rechecked the list the consignment
                                                                dealer has on-line and that item is still listed. Now, I ask, what gives?

                                                                Some sellers (and I include shops) are sloppy about timely updates. Some
                                                                only may do them periodically, and that can be frustrating (maybe the case I
                                                                mentioned is just such a one.) Others...is it really a case of intended
                                                                "bait and switch"..."I don't have that, but I do have this other thing..."?
                                                                Experience with shops on-line and their systems tell me how relatively
                                                                timely they are or are not. One shop back East I called three times about
                                                                Internet items listed, and all three times they claimed the respective item
                                                                was really already sold. I got to wondering if they really wanted to do any
                                                                business outside their immediate geographical area. You never know. And
                                                                their prices were too good-if not unbelieveable-and you know that old story.

                                                                There are good things out there. Hopefully, modelers may be more often
                                                                pleasantly surprised with simple honestly and caution. I try to keep it a
                                                                simple transaction and deal truthfully and honestly from my end. If I get
                                                                the same back...it's a good day when the UPS or Postman arrives.

                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)









                                                                ---------------------------------
                                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2269 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/25/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
                                                                I also liked that car--am thinking of scratchbuilding one in O Scale--as an exercise for the new lathe--the one I built in HO was from an "UMPCo" kit-- (Universal Model Products Co.)--a bunch of wood parts in a cellophane bag.  They also had a chlorine tank car--the type that carried the "ton containers" as used in major water and sewage treatment plants.
                                                                 
                                                                I used to see the Helium cars near Bayshore Highway at Moffett Field back in the fifties.  I grew up  in Redwood City--I have an official US Navy photo of the Whitcomb diesel switcher that I used to see there.
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:18 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one.
                                                                On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote:
                                                                OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have
                                                                some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as
                                                                later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I
                                                                thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit.
                                                                This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them
                                                                all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire
                                                                (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get
                                                                done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me
                                                                longer.
                                                                Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o)
                                                                >
                                                                > Vic Bitleris
                                                                > Raleigh, NC
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM
                                                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some
                                                                of the
                                                                > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern.
                                                                Usually, you
                                                                > > can
                                                                > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows.
                                                                Several
                                                                > > of
                                                                > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the
                                                                bid for a
                                                                > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than
                                                                a true
                                                                > > representation of the value. I really love the
                                                                Ambroid/Northeaster n cars
                                                                > > as
                                                                > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of
                                                                course
                                                                > > one
                                                                > > likes to build these.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Vic Bitleris
                                                                > > Raleigh, NC
                                                                >
                                                                > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G>
                                                                >
                                                                > Don
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > << MILW451600.jpg >>
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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2270 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/25/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
                                                                I kept getting "delaying" responses--then the company was sold--
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                From: Wobbly913
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:31 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.
                                                                 
                                                                Wobbly913

                                                                John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                Dear Glenn,
                                                                 
                                                                I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Don and Group,
                                                                 
                                                                Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                 
                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                 
                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,
                                                                 
                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                 
                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                 
                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                 
                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                 
                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                 
                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...



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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2271 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
                                                                I certainly learned--gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:08 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Glenn,
                                                                 
                                                                I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Don and Group,
                                                                 
                                                                Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                 
                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                 
                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,
                                                                 
                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                 
                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                 
                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                 
                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                 
                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                 
                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...



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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2272 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                Hi once more... What is the best type of glue to use with the wooden or wooden/casemetal kits ? For now that I have
                                                                Several on hand I am going to build some here soon. So if any of you have done wooden kits and would like to share your
                                                                Ideas with the rest of this group then do so!
                                                                 
                                                                Also what kind of paint is best, and would I need to use a sealer or primer before the 1st coat? For I have ordered some paint
                                                                from my online hobby shop and found a very nice airbrush as well to use with this joyful hobby!
                                                                 
                                                                Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                See what you are saying to me !!!
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2273 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
                                                                I got caught up in auction purchases of older equipment as a member of Coast Division of PCR (NMRA).  A feature of the quarterly meets was an auction--That crew could "write the book" on auctions at model RR meets--if they had time to.  I was on the auction committee--our auctions would start whenever the business meeting was over--about 12:30 on a Sunday afternoon.  Cut-off time was 6:00 pm.  In that time we usually would turn over in excess of 600 items, and over $10,000 would change hands, with the association getting 10%. gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:47 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...

                                                                Without getting too far afield from vintage wooden and metal kits, I think the subject of absentee purchase" is a worthwhile subject. I do not do eBay, but that is not because of any bad purchases. I simply don't care for the auction process. You sell at a price-I buy or don't-end of that. With private kit sellers I have had no problems, and the only recent one is with a business that simply says it never received my mail with money order. Fine! I go from there. I still see two "shops" advertised on line that I had issues with but back in the 1990's. I won't do business with them today but I got my money back. One, related to the original subject, wanted to charge me extra for the sprung trucks that came with the Ulrich metal kit which had directions that showed they were part of it. Do business through the mail and try that-trouble for the rip-off artist. I got the complete kit (with trucks)...end of doing business with that individual firm.
                                                                 
                                                                Finding reliable model railroad sources is really "hit and miss", but by retaining money order or postal money order or cashier check (for more expensive items) stubs and going by mail...the shady dealer runs a big risk-especially if the victim presents documentation to his/her advertising source (like Model Railroader or Railroad Model Craftsman, et al).
                                                                Even having an original ad in a mag, that is received through the mails, brings in the P.O., and most publishers don't want that kind of involvement. ...and may contact the offender in some cases to get the matter properly resolved. The real stinkers in the trade reveal their nature all too soon, and any fool who does or continues to do business with them runs a high risk of rip-off.
                                                                 
                                                                I use what I mentioned to assure the seller that I am providing the closest thing to cash in hand...no dubious personal checks and no credit card info that may have me finding charges on bills to a firm long after we ever did a given or last business transaction. Done and done!
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.
                                                                 
                                                                Wobbly913

                                                                John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                Dear Glenn,
                                                                 
                                                                I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Don and Group,
                                                                 
                                                                Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                 
                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                 
                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,
                                                                 
                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                 
                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                 
                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                 
                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                 
                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                 
                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...



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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2274 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
                                                                In my case, I had ordered by phone--was  in response to an ad flyer--was told " a couple of weeks"--that kept getting put off--eventually the company sold and H&P didn't honor the paid orders.  Time after order was too long for MC to  take action--so I was stuck--but I will never buy from YOH&P --gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:55 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...Part II

                                                                Yep, ALWAYS call or email in advance. Since the advent of Internet
                                                                advertising, I can see that a lot of sellers are quick to put their stuff
                                                                out there to advertise, but not very quick about keeping it up to date. I
                                                                can't tell you how many times I called or emailed and found that the item
                                                                has long disappeared from their stock.

                                                                Vic Bitleris
                                                                Raleigh, NC

                                                                ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com>
                                                                Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
                                                                Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:55:06 -0800 (PST)

                                                                Dear Group,

                                                                There are ways to save yourself headaches up front...be it an on-line ad
                                                                or in a mag. Call (telephone) or email the seller first to see if it is
                                                                still available. If it isn't...it simply isn't. If it is, make your
                                                                arrangements and ask about the model (if not displayed) and go from there.

                                                                In one recent case I contacted an on-line source who turned out to be the
                                                                "go-between" between the owner and any potential buyer (such as I was then.)
                                                                As it turned out, the model was not even in-house. That widened my eyebrows,
                                                                but the consignment person was (to me) up front and eventually told me the
                                                                owner had subsequently sold his model (brass freight car) elsewhere. Oh
                                                                well...no money sent...no harm. BUT, I rechecked the list the consignment
                                                                dealer has on-line and that item is still listed. Now, I ask, what gives?

                                                                Some sellers (and I include shops) are sloppy about timely updates. Some
                                                                only may do them periodically, and that can be frustrating (maybe the case I
                                                                mentioned is just such a one.) Others...is it really a case of intended
                                                                "bait and switch"..."I don't have that, but I do have this other thing..."?
                                                                Experience with shops on-line and their systems tell me how relatively
                                                                timely they are or are not. One shop back East I called three times about
                                                                Internet items listed, and all three times they claimed the respective item
                                                                was really already sold. I got to wondering if they really wanted to do any
                                                                business outside their immediate geographical area. You never know. And
                                                                their prices were too good-if not unbelieveable- and you know that old story.

                                                                There are good things out there. Hopefully, modelers may be more often
                                                                pleasantly surprised with simple honestly and caution. I try to keep it a
                                                                simple transaction and deal truthfully and honestly from my end. If I get
                                                                the same back...it's a good day when the UPS or Postman arrives.

                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                ------------ --------- --------- ---
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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2275 From: John Barlow Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
                                                                Dear Glenn,
                                                                 
                                                                I never had that experience, but while stationed with the USAF in Hawaii I was part of another club (not railroad) that had our meetings and a thing called "the Midnight Hobby Shop" over near Kaneoe Marine Corps Air Station (windward side of Oahu Island-opposite from Honolulu.) The seller was a University of Hawaii professor and club member, importing (to Hawaii) what either the Honolulu shops or Bases' Hobby Shops couldn't get. He offered damn good prices (1970-72 era.)  Those auctions can do a lot, but isn't modeling what everybody really gets together for in the first place?
                                                                 
                                                                John

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                I got caught up in auction purchases of older equipment as a member of Coast Division of PCR (NMRA).  A feature of the quarterly meets was an auction--That crew could "write the book" on auctions at model RR meets--if they had time to.  I was on the auction committee--our auctions would start whenever the business meeting was over--about 12:30 on a Sunday afternoon.  Cut-off time was 6:00 pm.  In that time we usually would turn over in excess of 600 items, and over $10,000 would change hands, with the association getting 10%. gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:47 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...

                                                                Without getting too far afield from vintage wooden and metal kits, I think the subject of absentee purchase" is a worthwhile subject. I do not do eBay, but that is not because of any bad purchases. I simply don't care for the auction process. You sell at a price-I buy or don't-end of that. With private kit sellers I have had no problems, and the only recent one is with a business that simply says it never received my mail with money order. Fine! I go from there. I still see two "shops" advertised on line that I had issues with but back in the 1990's. I won't do business with them today but I got my money back. One, related to the original subject, wanted to charge me extra for the sprung trucks that came with the Ulrich metal kit which had directions that showed they were part of it. Do business through the mail and try that-trouble for the rip-off artist. I got the complete kit (with trucks)...end of doing business with that individual firm.
                                                                 
                                                                Finding reliable model railroad sources is really "hit and miss", but by retaining money order or postal money order or cashier check (for more expensive items) stubs and going by mail...the shady dealer runs a big risk-especially if the victim presents documentation to his/her advertising source (like Model Railroader or Railroad Model Craftsman, et al).
                                                                Even having an original ad in a mag, that is received through the mails, brings in the P.O., and most publishers don't want that kind of involvement. ...and may contact the offender in some cases to get the matter properly resolved. The real stinkers in the trade reveal their nature all too soon, and any fool who does or continues to do business with them runs a high risk of rip-off.
                                                                 
                                                                I use what I mentioned to assure the seller that I am providing the closest thing to cash in hand...no dubious personal checks and no credit card info that may have me finding charges on bills to a firm long after we ever did a given or last business transaction. Done and done!
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.
                                                                 
                                                                Wobbly913

                                                                John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                Dear Glenn,
                                                                 
                                                                I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Don and Group,
                                                                 
                                                                Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                 
                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                 
                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,
                                                                 
                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                 
                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                 
                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                 
                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                 
                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                 
                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...



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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2276 From: John Barlow Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                MaryAnn.
                                                                 
                                                                For wood on wood-I use Ambroid. For attaching metal parts to wood or plastic to wood, I use ACC (watch applying it.) Metal to metal? ACC!
                                                                 
                                                                John (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                maobuch@... wrote:
                                                                Hi once more... What is the best type of glue to use with the wooden or wooden/casemetal kits ? For now that I have
                                                                Several on hand I am going to build some here soon. So if any of you have done wooden kits and would like to share your
                                                                Ideas with the rest of this group then do so!
                                                                 
                                                                Also what kind of paint is best, and would I need to use a sealer or primer before the 1st coat? For I have ordered some paint
                                                                from my online hobby shop and found a very nice airbrush as well to use with this joyful hobby!
                                                                 
                                                                Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html
                                                                PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                See what you are saying to me !!!


                                                                Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                                                                Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2277 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                According to Scott Mason, this is the BEST glue:
                                                                http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/paa/paapt56.htm
                                                                This is Pacer Canopy glue and is a white glue similar to Elmers, but with
                                                                much better properties. I have heard from other friends doing wood modeling
                                                                and I will be switching from my normal Elmers yellow glue (aliphatic resin)
                                                                to the Pacer canopy glue.

                                                                Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                Raleigh, NC



                                                                ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                From: <maobuch@...>
                                                                Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:23:54 -0600

                                                                Hi once more... What is the best type of glue to use with the wooden or
                                                                wooden/casemetal kits ? For now that I have
                                                                Several on hand I am going to build some here soon. So if any of you have
                                                                done wooden kits and would like to share your
                                                                Ideas with the rest of this group then do so!

                                                                Also what kind of paint is best, and would I need to use a sealer or primer
                                                                before the 1st coat? For I have ordered some paint
                                                                from my online hobby shop and found a very nice airbrush as well to use with
                                                                this joyful hobby!

                                                                Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                See what you are saying to me !!!

                                                                _________________________________________________________________
                                                                Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy
                                                                Awards� http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2278 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
                                                                One thing I learned there was to set a limit of what I would pay--usually based on not only condition but availability.  Sometimes it would get interesting.  Two nearly identical locos would be on the auction.  One might have a fairly high starting bid and would not sell.  The other, with a lower opening, would take off and sail right past the price of the one that didn't sell.We used a fluorescent red card with the bidder's number on the back side.  Auctioneer would just point and call out the bids When he said "Sold!" you'd best turn the card to show the clerk the number before he hollered "Number Please!". By then the auctioneer was nearly through with the next item.  We could handle over a hundred items per hour. gj----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:18 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...

                                                                Dear Glenn,
                                                                 
                                                                I never had that experience, but while stationed with the USAF in Hawaii I was part of another club (not railroad) that had our meetings and a thing called "the Midnight Hobby Shop" over near Kaneoe Marine Corps Air Station (windward side of Oahu Island-opposite from Honolulu.) The seller was a University of Hawaii professor and club member, importing (to Hawaii) what either the Honolulu shops or Bases' Hobby Shops couldn't get. He offered damn good prices (1970-72 era.)  Those auctions can do a lot, but isn't modeling what everybody really gets together for in the first place?
                                                                 
                                                                John

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                I got caught up in auction purchases of older equipment as a member of Coast Division of PCR (NMRA).  A feature of the quarterly meets was an auction--That crew could "write the book" on auctions at model RR meets--if they had time to.  I was on the auction committee--our auctions would start whenever the business meeting was over--about 12:30 on a Sunday afternoon.  Cut-off time was 6:00 pm.  In that time we usually would turn over in excess of 600 items, and over $10,000 would change hands, with the association getting 10%. gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:47 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...

                                                                Without getting too far afield from vintage wooden and metal kits, I think the subject of absentee purchase" is a worthwhile subject. I do not do eBay, but that is not because of any bad purchases. I simply don't care for the auction process. You sell at a price-I buy or don't-end of that. With private kit sellers I have had no problems, and the only recent one is with a business that simply says it never received my mail with money order. Fine! I go from there. I still see two "shops" advertised on line that I had issues with but back in the 1990's. I won't do business with them today but I got my money back. One, related to the original subject, wanted to charge me extra for the sprung trucks that came with the Ulrich metal kit which had directions that showed they were part of it. Do business through the mail and try that-trouble for the rip-off artist. I got the complete kit (with trucks)...end of doing business with that individual firm.
                                                                 
                                                                Finding reliable model railroad sources is really "hit and miss", but by retaining money order or postal money order or cashier check (for more expensive items) stubs and going by mail...the shady dealer runs a big risk-especially if the victim presents documentation to his/her advertising source (like Model Railroader or Railroad Model Craftsman, et al).
                                                                Even having an original ad in a mag, that is received through the mails, brings in the P.O., and most publishers don't want that kind of involvement. ...and may contact the offender in some cases to get the matter properly resolved. The real stinkers in the trade reveal their nature all too soon, and any fool who does or continues to do business with them runs a high risk of rip-off.
                                                                 
                                                                I use what I mentioned to assure the seller that I am providing the closest thing to cash in hand...no dubious personal checks and no credit card info that may have me finding charges on bills to a firm long after we ever did a given or last business transaction. Done and done!
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.
                                                                 
                                                                Wobbly913

                                                                John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                Dear Glenn,
                                                                 
                                                                I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0

                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                Dear Don and Group,
                                                                 
                                                                Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                 
                                                                To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                 
                                                                Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                Dear Maryann,
                                                                 
                                                                To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                 
                                                                Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                 
                                                                Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                 
                                                                Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                 
                                                                One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                 
                                                                I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                 
                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                 


                                                                "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                this group.

                                                                Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                have. See that file for more INFO...



                                                                Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers.


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                                                                (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.


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                                                                Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

                                                                The fish are biting.
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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2279 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
                                                                Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                                > I got caught up in auction purchases of older equipment as a member of
                                                                > Coast Division of PCR (NMRA). A feature of the quarterly meets was an
                                                                > auction--That crew could "write the book" on auctions at model RR
                                                                > meets--if they had time to. I was on the auction committee--our
                                                                > auctions would start whenever the business meeting was over--about 12:30
                                                                > on a Sunday afternoon. Cut-off time was 6:00 pm. In that time we
                                                                > usually would turn over in excess of 600 items, and over $10,000 would
                                                                > change hands, with the association getting 10%. gj

                                                                I remember the auction at the national convention in San Jose in
                                                                2000. IIRC that was run by the people you mention.

                                                                --

                                                                Rick Jones

                                                                The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                The severity of the itch is proportional to the inability to
                                                                reach it.
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2280 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...
                                                                That was them--although it was nowhere near a typical Coast Division auction as it didn't have the quantity of items.  gj
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                From: Rick Jones
                                                                Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:36 PM
                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Doing Mail Order Business...

                                                                Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                                > I got caught up in auction purchases of older equipment as a member of
                                                                > Coast Division of PCR (NMRA). A feature of the quarterly meets was an
                                                                > auction--That crew could "write the book" on auctions at model RR
                                                                > meets--if they had time to. I was on the auction committee--our
                                                                > auctions would start whenever the business meeting was over--about 12:30
                                                                > on a Sunday afternoon. Cut-off time was 6:00 pm. In that time we
                                                                > usually would turn over in excess of 600 items, and over $10,000 would
                                                                > change hands, with the association getting 10%. gj

                                                                I remember the auction at the national convention in San Jose in
                                                                2000. IIRC that was run by the people you mention.

                                                                --

                                                                Rick Jones

                                                                The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/seventysix inchesoffun/

                                                                The severity of the itch is proportional to the inability to
                                                                reach it.

                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2281 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/26/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                For wood to wood, I use plain old Elmer's.  For wood to metal or plastic, or metal to metal, I use a good brand of contact cement.  Weldwood makes a good one, or "Pliobond" is another good one.  For plastic to plastic, I use Testor's "model Master" brand solvent cement.
                                                                 
                                                                Don
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:23 PM
                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

                                                                Hi once more... What is the best type of glue to use with the wooden or wooden/casemetal kits ? For now that I have
                                                                Several on hand I am going to build some here soon. So if any of you have done wooden kits and would like to share your
                                                                Ideas with the rest of this group then do so!
                                                                 
                                                                Also what kind of paint is best, and would I need to use a sealer or primer before the 1st coat? For I have ordered some paint
                                                                from my online hobby shop and found a very nice airbrush as well to use with this joyful hobby!
                                                                 
                                                                Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                See what you are saying to me !!!
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2282 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                You might also try:
                                                                 
                                                                Weldbond, available at better hardware stores. Be sure to get the data sheet(free but not usually attached to the bottles), as it tells how to use Weldbond for glueing not only wood to wood, but almost anything to anything.
                                                                 
                                                                I use this extensdively where the item will not be subject to great heat.
                                                                 
                                                                It costs more than white gules, seems similar to them - but it isn't.
                                                                 
                                                                Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
                                                                 
                                                                 

                                                                Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
                                                                According to Scott Mason, this is the BEST glue:
                                                                http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/paa/paapt56.htm
                                                                This is Pacer Canopy glue and is a white glue similar to Elmers, but with
                                                                much better properties. I have heard from other friends doing wood modeling
                                                                and I will be switching from my normal Elmers yellow glue (aliphatic resin)
                                                                to the Pacer canopy glue.

                                                                Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                Raleigh, NC

                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2283 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                Subject: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood
                                                                Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating?  For its been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of the 24 kits done...
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                See what you are saying to me !!!
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2284 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                If you get the Weldbond, all instructions are included. For wood, the treatment is to paint some thinned(like 2:1 or even 4:1) Weldbond on the surfaces to be joined, let dry and then use as regular white glue - i.e. put some glue on the joining surfaces, clamp and let dry overnight.
                                                                 
                                                                Weldbond seems to work best on non-porous materials, and adding the thinned Weldbond to the surfaces provides that are to be glued, which may explain why it will even bond metal to glass...
                                                                 
                                                                Try it, it's great - I'll never go backl.
                                                                 
                                                                Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                maobuch@... wrote:
                                                                Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood
                                                                Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating?  For its been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of the 24 kits done...
                                                                 
                                                                 
                                                                Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                See what you are saying to me !!!

                                                                __________________________________________________
                                                                Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2285 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                I still use Walthers GOO if contact cement is needed.  I first used it when assembling some Walthers heavyweight passenger cars as a teenager long ago (slightly pre-Beatles).  These are the cars with wood tops and bottoms, cast metal ends, stamped metal sides, etc..  I always felt that building one of those was almost a right of passage, and perhaps somewhat of a bit of hazing, for entry into the hobby.
                                                                 
                                                                Chuck Kinzer
                                                                 
                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:04 AM
                                                                Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

                                                                You might also try:
                                                                 
                                                                Weldbond, available at better hardware stores. Be sure to get the data sheet(free but not usually attached to the bottles), as it tells how to use Weldbond for glueing not only wood to wood, but almost anything to anything.
                                                                 
                                                                I use this extensdively where the item will not be subject to great heat.
                                                                 
                                                                It costs more than white gules, seems similar to them - but it isn't.
                                                                 
                                                                Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
                                                                 
                                                                 

                                                                Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote:
                                                                According to Scott Mason, this is the BEST glue:
                                                                http://www.hobbylin c.com/htm/ paa/paapt56. htm
                                                                This is Pacer Canopy glue and is a white glue similar to Elmers, but with
                                                                much better properties. I have heard from other friends doing wood modeling
                                                                and I will be switching from my normal Elmers yellow glue (aliphatic resin)
                                                                to the Pacer canopy glue.

                                                                Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                Raleigh, NC

                                                                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                                                Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2286 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                Subject: 1954 Booster
                                                                Attachments :
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2287 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                  Generally I only seal the wood if it's going to represent a steel car.  For a wood prototype I like to let the wood grain show.
                                                                   
                                                                  Don
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:28 PM
                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re:Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

                                                                  Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood
                                                                  Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating?  For its been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of the 24 kits done...
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                  Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                  PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                  See what you are saying to me !!!
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2288 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: "In Honor of Number 1" (re: 1954 Booster)
                                                                  Dear Don,
                                                                   
                                                                  In my storage is what you photo'ed here-a 1954 Mantua Booster. It bears no road insignia now, just a simple number on an old black paint job and a jewel headlight. Its couplers are the hoop ring of that time. It was the result of a nione year old boy at that time peddling pull wagon loads of newspaper and junk to a junkyard...and that boy with his nose pressed against the window of E&H Hobbies in the Mayfair section of Philadelphia...working and dreaming as best he could and dare. In time it was bought-and one Saturday night the boy's father and a friend of the father worked into the wee hours of the following Sunday morning to assemble the Booster kit. That Sunday, it ran for the first time.
                                                                   
                                                                  On my proposed layout, all these years later, there is Rule One: "No other locomotive or its train shall have priority or right-of-way over Number One, be that loco and/or train brass, plastic, resin or lead-bodied."  It was my HO "Alpha." It has no value...it is beyond value, beyond any price that anyone may think to place upon it.
                                                                   
                                                                  Thank you.
                                                                   
                                                                  John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                  Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:


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                                                                  with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2289 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
                                                                  Dear Glenn,
                                                                   
                                                                  The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief Petty Officer"...Don't Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone knows-I appreciate a response.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...

                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                  I also liked that car--am thinking of scratchbuilding one in O Scale--as an exercise for the new lathe--the one I built in HO was from an "UMPCo" kit-- (Universal Model Products Co.)--a bunch of wood parts in a cellophane bag.  They also had a chlorine tank car--the type that carried the "ton containers" as used in major water and sewage treatment plants.
                                                                   
                                                                  I used to see the Helium cars near Bayshore Highway at Moffett Field back in the fifties.  I grew up  in Redwood City--I have an official US Navy photo of the Whitcomb diesel switcher that I used to see there.
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:18 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                  My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one.
                                                                  On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                  bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote:
                                                                  OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have
                                                                  some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as
                                                                  later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I
                                                                  thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit.
                                                                  This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them
                                                                  all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire
                                                                  (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get
                                                                  done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me
                                                                  longer.
                                                                  Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o)
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Vic Bitleris
                                                                  > Raleigh, NC
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                  > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                  > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                  > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM
                                                                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some
                                                                  of the
                                                                  > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern.
                                                                  Usually, you
                                                                  > > can
                                                                  > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows.
                                                                  Several
                                                                  > > of
                                                                  > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the
                                                                  bid for a
                                                                  > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than
                                                                  a true
                                                                  > > representation of the value. I really love the
                                                                  Ambroid/Northeaster n cars
                                                                  > > as
                                                                  > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                  > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of
                                                                  course
                                                                  > > one
                                                                  > > likes to build these.
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > > Vic Bitleris
                                                                  > > Raleigh, NC
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G>
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Don
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > << MILW451600.jpg >>
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                  > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide
                                                                  to the
                                                                  > Academy Awards®
                                                                  > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1
                                                                  >



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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2290 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
                                                                  Well--SF is near where I used to see them--but Moffett Field doesn't handle "Lighter-than-Air" operations now.  There is a huge hangar that used to house the US Navy's Dirigibles" and the "Blimps" used for coastal defense. The pride of the fleet was the USS Macon, which can still be seen by divers off Point Sur--where she went down before WWII.
                                                                  gj
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:41 AM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                  Dear Glenn,
                                                                   
                                                                  The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief Petty Officer"...Don' t Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone knows-I appreciate a response.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com

                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                  I also liked that car--am thinking of scratchbuilding one in O Scale--as an exercise for the new lathe--the one I built in HO was from an "UMPCo" kit-- (Universal Model Products Co.)--a bunch of wood parts in a cellophane bag.  They also had a chlorine tank car--the type that carried the "ton containers" as used in major water and sewage treatment plants.
                                                                   
                                                                  I used to see the Helium cars near Bayshore Highway at Moffett Field back in the fifties.  I grew up  in Redwood City--I have an official US Navy photo of the Whitcomb diesel switcher that I used to see there.
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:18 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                  My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one.
                                                                  On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                  bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote:
                                                                  OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have
                                                                  some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as
                                                                  later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I
                                                                  thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit.
                                                                  This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them
                                                                  all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire
                                                                  (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get
                                                                  done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me
                                                                  longer.
                                                                  Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o)
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Vic Bitleris
                                                                  > Raleigh, NC
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                  > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                  > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                  > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM
                                                                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some
                                                                  of the
                                                                  > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern.
                                                                  Usually, you
                                                                  > > can
                                                                  > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows.
                                                                  Several
                                                                  > > of
                                                                  > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the
                                                                  bid for a
                                                                  > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than
                                                                  a true
                                                                  > > representation of the value. I really love the
                                                                  Ambroid/Northeaster n cars
                                                                  > > as
                                                                  > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                  > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of
                                                                  course
                                                                  > > one
                                                                  > > likes to build these.
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > > Vic Bitleris
                                                                  > > Raleigh, NC
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G>
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Don
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > << MILW451600.jpg >>
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                  > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide
                                                                  to the
                                                                  > Academy Awards®
                                                                  > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1
                                                                  >



                                                                  The fish are biting.
                                                                  Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.


                                                                  We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                  (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2291 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                  Hey Guys...
                                                                  I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I just
                                                                  posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right
                                                                  and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like
                                                                  it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just
                                                                  picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and
                                                                  it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure out
                                                                  the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip
                                                                  of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in
                                                                  place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough
                                                                  and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                  Nice little engine though...
                                                                  Sean
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2292 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
                                                                  Oh yes-I read or so old film footage of the Macon. Did you ever read who built those huge things for the U.S. Navy? Anyway, I have a "Sparrowhawk" kit in 1:72 scale of the landing gearless fighters that such airships launched and recovered. I grew up in the 1950's seeing the usual blimps out of NAS Lakehurst (New Jersey). Its fame was the Von Hindenberg tragedy in 1937 (?) If you are on the West Coast. a visit to the old NAS at Tillemock, Orgeon (the cheese town), is worth it-for railroad reasons as well as aircraft history.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@yahoo)

                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                  Well--SF is near where I used to see them--but Moffett Field doesn't handle "Lighter-than- Air" operations now.  There is a huge hangar that used to house the US Navy's Dirigibles" and the "Blimps" used for coastal defense. The pride of the fleet was the USS Macon, which can still be seen by divers off Point Sur--where she went down before WWII.
                                                                  gj
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:41 AM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                  Dear Glenn,
                                                                   
                                                                  The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief Petty Officer"...Don' t Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone knows-I appreciate a response.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com

                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                  I also liked that car--am thinking of scratchbuilding one in O Scale--as an exercise for the new lathe--the one I built in HO was from an "UMPCo" kit-- (Universal Model Products Co.)--a bunch of wood parts in a cellophane bag.  They also had a chlorine tank car--the type that carried the "ton containers" as used in major water and sewage treatment plants.
                                                                   
                                                                  I used to see the Helium cars near Bayshore Highway at Moffett Field back in the fifties.  I grew up  in Redwood City--I have an official US Navy photo of the Whitcomb diesel switcher that I used to see there.
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:18 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                  My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one.
                                                                  On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                  bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote:
                                                                  OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have
                                                                  some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as
                                                                  later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I
                                                                  thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit.
                                                                  This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them
                                                                  all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire
                                                                  (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get
                                                                  done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me
                                                                  longer.
                                                                  Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o)
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Vic Bitleris
                                                                  > Raleigh, NC
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                  > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                  > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                  > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM
                                                                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some
                                                                  of the
                                                                  > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern.
                                                                  Usually, you
                                                                  > > can
                                                                  > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows.
                                                                  Several
                                                                  > > of
                                                                  > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the
                                                                  bid for a
                                                                  > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than
                                                                  a true
                                                                  > > representation of the value. I really love the
                                                                  Ambroid/Northeaster n cars
                                                                  > > as
                                                                  > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                  > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of
                                                                  course
                                                                  > > one
                                                                  > > likes to build these.
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > > Vic Bitleris
                                                                  > > Raleigh, NC
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G>
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Don
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > << MILW451600.jpg >>
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                  > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide
                                                                  to the
                                                                  > Academy Awards®
                                                                  > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1
                                                                  >



                                                                  The fish are biting.
                                                                  Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.


                                                                  We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                  (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.


                                                                  The fish are biting.
                                                                  Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2293 From: John Hagen Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: 1954 Booster
                                                                  Don, Nice engine. I especially like the MN decals. Neat.

                                                                  John Hagen

                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Here's the 1954 Mantua Booster I got last week, in service
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Don
                                                                  >
                                                                  > don.dellmann@...
                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                  > Owner-Moderator
                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                  > Co-moderator
                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                  >
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2294 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                  Hello,

                                                                  This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                  a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                  group.

                                                                  File : /AA/A5-w-combine1581 copy.jpg
                                                                  Uploaded by : sottguy <aiberg@...>
                                                                  Description : English A5 Yarbird with English 60' coach

                                                                  You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/AA/A5-w-combine1581%20copy.jpg

                                                                  To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                  http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                  Regards,

                                                                  sottguy <aiberg@...>
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2295 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                  Hello,

                                                                  This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                  a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                  group.

                                                                  File : /AA/Englishcombine-ca1585 copy.jpg
                                                                  Uploaded by : sottguy <aiberg@...>
                                                                  Description : English combine in kit form

                                                                  You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/AA/Englishcombine-ca1585%20copy.jpg

                                                                  To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                  http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                  Regards,

                                                                  sottguy <aiberg@...>
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2296 From: sottguy Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Recent J A English acquisitions
                                                                  I have been wanting to acquire a John English coach for some time in
                                                                  the continuing quest to get the more appealing pieces of my modest
                                                                  collection acquired in the '50s. Today I found this coach at a swap
                                                                  meet painted black with Pennsy lettering. Much to my surprise and
                                                                  delight, I also found a combine still in kit form at another table. I
                                                                  never owned the combine but had wanted one bach then. I have posted
                                                                  photos of both in the files under AA -Al's vintage stuff.

                                                                  The coach is shown behing the English A5 0=4-0 Yardbird, my first
                                                                  locomotive back in the very early '50s The combine is shown as the
                                                                  kit - no box, alas.

                                                                  I plan build the combine and repaint the coach.

                                                                  Regars,

                                                                  Al Askerberg
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2297 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: 1954 Booster
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:52 PM
                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1954 Booster


                                                                  > Don, Nice engine. I especially like the MN decals. Neat.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > John Hagen
                                                                  >

                                                                  I might mention that John was the one who printed the decals for me. :-)

                                                                  A BIG "Thank You"

                                                                  (Ping to John, I don't know what you did different but the yellow ones
                                                                  didn't work, Transparent and dots rather than solid color :-( )

                                                                  Don

                                                                  don.dellmann@...
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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2298 From: jim gerstley Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                  of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                  for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                  used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                  them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                  for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                  been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                  sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                  fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                  assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                  be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                  so the sides went on square with the roof.



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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2299 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                  Dear Maryann,
                                                                   
                                                                  You do not use sanding sealer on a wooden kit that is supposed to represent a wooden car. That would hide the wood grain ( and Don said that already.) The old wooden cars were not airbrushed or spray painted (talking of the prototype cars.) You may want to dry brush ( a low amount of paint on a paint brush) the car side with the desired color you don't have an excessive amount of paint on the wood. Paint with the grain of the wood. A thin spray of a clear coat is used to cover the dried color to provide a thin smooth surface for applying decals or dry transfers. To maximize decal conformity to the surface, you should use a Solveset on the area to which the decal is applied, especially if there are irregular surfaces involved (small spaces between wood pieces on car sides.)
                                                                   
                                                                  IMPORTANT: The Solveset is strong, and thin film decals may crinkle unless you thin the area with a touch of water...diluting it. How can you get decals to "lay down"?  Simple trick I use is to take a piece of absorbent paper towel and hold it near the decal in place. The excess moisture is sucked into the towel from under the decal, and the decal settles down. It's like the locks in the Panama Canal in principle, when raising or lowering a ship. If the decal shifts off-place, apply water to float it again right away. Then repeat the "towel process."
                                                                   
                                                                  On the clear coat thing, you can add more after the decal dries in place if you want a varnished look. On old time passenger cars (before 1900 or early-1900's), the varnish would cause white paint to yellow a tad with time. That effect is what caused the Pennsylvania Railroad's "Pennsylvania Limited" to be nicknamed "The Yellow Kid." If you ever see a painting or color rendition of that famous passenger train, you might wonder why it was painted red, white, and green. Answer: The Pennsylvania Railroad copped the idea from the paint scheme that Pullman used on the President of Mexico's private car.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                    
                                                                   


                                                                  maobuch@... wrote:
                                                                  Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood
                                                                  Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating?  For its been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of the 24 kits done...
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                  Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                  http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html
                                                                  PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                  See what you are saying to me !!!


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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2300 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  Dear Jim,
                                                                   
                                                                  I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.
                                                                   
                                                                  Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.
                                                                   
                                                                  You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.
                                                                   
                                                                  I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"-very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                    

                                                                  jim gerstley <jimggers@...> wrote:
                                                                  I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                  of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                  for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                  used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                  them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                  for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                  been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                  sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                  fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                  assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                  be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                  so the sides went on square with the roof.

                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                  It's here! Your new message!
                                                                  Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2301 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  This summer, while in Cheyenne, we stopped by La Belle Woorworking to get a "tour". We got there, and thought we were at the wrong address. It was a older house on a corner of a road--didn't even look like someone lived there. We figuired that it was the correct house, because it had a La Belle sign in the window. We knocked on the door, and heard a "Come on in". Right when we walked in, we saw boxes of bulk wood, and completed kits. The man, whom I can not recall his name, showed us the original display models, how to make the kit, how to build it. Quite impressive process.
                                                                   
                                                                  I ended up getting a D&RGW motor car, which I built a couple of months ago into a Pullman green/C&NW green paint, with a black roof. I am happy with it, and it was my first laser kit that I have built.
                                                                   
                                                                  I plan on buying the powering kit for it, eventually, and possibly might get a few more of the open platform cars.
                                                                   
                                                                  Phil

                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                  From: jim gerstley <jimggers@...>
                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                  Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01:38 PM
                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                  of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                  for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                  used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                  them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                  for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                  been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                  sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                  fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                  assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                  be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                  so the sides went on square with the roof.

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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2302 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  Phil,
                                                                   
                                                                  I guess you met Rick and Tanya Steele...and their current site says they are working to import a power unit for the D&RGW gas electric unit.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                  Philip Martin <martin_lumber@...> wrote:
                                                                  This summer, while in Cheyenne, we stopped by La Belle Woorworking to get a "tour". We got there, and thought we were at the wrong address. It was a older house on a corner of a road--didn't even look like someone lived there. We figuired that it was the correct house, because it had a La Belle sign in the window. We knocked on the door, and heard a "Come on in". Right when we walked in, we saw boxes of bulk wood, and completed kits. The man, whom I can not recall his name, showed us the original display models, how to make the kit, how to build it. Quite impressive process.
                                                                   
                                                                  I ended up getting a D&RGW motor car, which I built a couple of months ago into a Pullman green/C&NW green paint, with a black roof. I am happy with it, and it was my first laser kit that I have built.
                                                                   
                                                                  I plan on buying the powering kit for it, eventually, and possibly might get a few more of the open platform cars.
                                                                   
                                                                  Phil

                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                  From: jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com>
                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                  Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01:38 PM
                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                  of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                  for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                  used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                  them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                  for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                  been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                  sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                  fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                  assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                  be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                  so the sides went on square with the roof.

                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                  It's here! Your new message!
                                                                  Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                                                  http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/



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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2303 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: "jim gerstley" <jimggers@...>
                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                  Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01 PM
                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle


                                                                  > I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                  > of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                  > for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                  > used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                  > them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                  > for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                  > been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                  > sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                  > fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                  > assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                  > be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                  > so the sides went on square with the roof.

                                                                  I just left the roofs loose on mine (wish I still had them, in fact the
                                                                  fellow who started LaBelle her in Wisconsin years ago belonged to our
                                                                  Church).

                                                                  As far as paint, I had the best luck brushing on original Floquil with no
                                                                  primer or sealer.

                                                                  Don

                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                  Co-moderator
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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2304 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  Hello John-
                                                                   
                                                                  Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas?
                                                                  Phil

                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                  From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  Dear Jim,
                                                                   
                                                                  I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.
                                                                   
                                                                  Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.
                                                                   
                                                                  You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.
                                                                   
                                                                  I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                    

                                                                  jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                  I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                  of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                  for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                  used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                  them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                  for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                  been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                  sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                  fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                  assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                  be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                  so the sides went on square with the roof.

                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                  It's here! Your new message!
                                                                  Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                                                  http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/


                                                                  Get your own web address.
                                                                  Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.




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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2305 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  Well, they said the trolley power kit will work, but I would have to find that out.
                                                                   
                                                                  Yep, I meat Rick Steele. Now I know the name.
                                                                   
                                                                  Phil

                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                  From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:34:14 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  Phil,
                                                                   
                                                                  I guess you met Rick and Tanya Steele...and their current site says they are working to import a power unit for the D&RGW gas electric unit.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                  Philip Martin <martin_lumber@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                  This summer, while in Cheyenne, we stopped by La Belle Woorworking to get a "tour". We got there, and thought we were at the wrong address. It was a older house on a corner of a road--didn't even look like someone lived there. We figuired that it was the correct house, because it had a La Belle sign in the window. We knocked on the door, and heard a "Come on in". Right when we walked in, we saw boxes of bulk wood, and completed kits. The man, whom I can not recall his name, showed us the original display models, how to make the kit, how to build it. Quite impressive process.
                                                                   
                                                                  I ended up getting a D&RGW motor car, which I built a couple of months ago into a Pullman green/C&NW green paint, with a black roof. I am happy with it, and it was my first laser kit that I have built.
                                                                   
                                                                  I plan on buying the powering kit for it, eventually, and possibly might get a few more of the open platform cars.
                                                                   
                                                                  Phil

                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                  From: jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com>
                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                  Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01:38 PM
                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                  of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                  for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                  used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                  them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                  for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                  been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                  sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                  fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                  assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                  be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                  so the sides went on square with the roof.

                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                  It's here! Your new message!
                                                                  Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                                                  http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/



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                                                                  Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.


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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2306 From: Martin Rosenfeld Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                  Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type?

                                                                  Martin Rosenfeld
                                                                  >
                                                                  > The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that
                                                                  > prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I
                                                                  > saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli
                                                                  > Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to
                                                                  > Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec
                                                                  > Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one
                                                                  > source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I
                                                                  > saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built
                                                                  > by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about
                                                                  > it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian
                                                                  > service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief
                                                                  > Petty Officer"...Don't Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone
                                                                  > knows-I appreciate a response.
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2307 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                  You mean there's something there?
                                                                  I thought is was just blank pages.....jab-jab.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type?
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Martin Rosenfeld
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > > The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that
                                                                  > > prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August
                                                                  1972. I
                                                                  > > saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-
                                                                  Koli
                                                                  > > Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul
                                                                  ammo to
                                                                  > > Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres &
                                                                  Toltec
                                                                  > > Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one
                                                                  > > source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore
                                                                  I
                                                                  > > saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was
                                                                  built
                                                                  > > by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about
                                                                  > > it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple"
                                                                  (Hawaiian
                                                                  > > service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as
                                                                  in "Chief
                                                                  > > Petty Officer"...Don't Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone
                                                                  > > knows-I appreciate a response.
                                                                  >
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2308 From: Don RIley Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                  Kinda reminds you of those dang blue lights on some cars or when
                                                                  someone is using there brights! Not cool!

                                                                  Steamengine4449

                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Martin Rosenfeld <rosenfeldmj@...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type?
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Martin Rosenfeld
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2309 From: Don RIley Date: 1/27/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: writing in red was Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                  Indeed writing in red is very bad. It is not as bad as typing in all
                                                                  caps but it is just not nice.

                                                                  Steamengine4449

                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > You mean there's something there?
                                                                  > I thought is was just blank pages.....jab-jab.
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2310 From: Don RIley Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: people paying TOO much for kits on ebay wasHow rare are wooden
                                                                  I tend to stay with Athearn. It amazes me what happens. I see all ends
                                                                  of the spectrum!
                                                                  Who will ever for get the 132 dallar crane!! And there have been others
                                                                  though not much as grand. Band powered engines go for assorted rates.
                                                                  And I have seen a few plastic framed Fs go high! Saw a snowbird go high
                                                                  a few days ago. It was in a box and plastic. Kits go for 10 to 20 most
                                                                  for tank cars.
                                                                  And I have seen wooden kits go high. Silver streak mostly. I have a
                                                                  couple but have not tryed to build um. Also always looking for rare
                                                                  Athearn boxes.

                                                                  I am finding this wooden kit thread interesting!!

                                                                  Steamengine4449

                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  > Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there
                                                                  fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but
                                                                  there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think. As
                                                                  far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of
                                                                  the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on
                                                                  the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs
                                                                  think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Don
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2311 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                  For wood and metal kits I like Floquil applied with an airbrush. A lot of the airbrush compressors are overpriced--check Harbor Freight Tools, Kragen/Schuck's Auto Supply, and even Sears for better prices--just be sure it is an "oilless" compressor.  gj
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:45 AM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

                                                                  MaryAnn.
                                                                   
                                                                  For wood on wood-I use Ambroid. For attaching metal parts to wood or plastic to wood, I use ACC (watch applying it.) Metal to metal? ACC!
                                                                   
                                                                  Hi once more... What is the best type of glue to use with the wooden or wooden/casemetal kits ? For now that I have
                                                                  Several on hand I am going to build some here soon. So if any of you have done wooden kits and would like to share your
                                                                  Ideas with the rest of this group then do so!
                                                                   
                                                                  Also what kind of paint is best, and would I need to use a sealer or primer before the 1st coat? For I have ordered some paint
                                                                  from my online hobby shop and found a very nice airbrush as well to use with this joyful hobby!
                                                                   
                                                                  Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                  http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html
                                                                  PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                  See what you are saying to me !!!


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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2312 From: jay matz Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  Phil
                                                                  Westside made one in Brass MRS-1 it was also NSWGR Class-48 (Austrailla). Sold one on Ebay last week.
                                                                  Jay



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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2313 From: jay matz Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  Phil
                                                                  Get a Bachmann Gas Electric and take the drive out, or Walthers Gas Electric.
                                                                  It will be cheeper and run better.
                                                                  Jay

                                                                  Philip Martin <martin_lumber@...> wrote:
                                                                  Well, they said the trolley power kit will work, but I would have to find that out.



                                                                  .



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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2314 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                  If you set your mail reader to "plain text" the red goes away.

                                                                  Don

                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                  Co-moderator
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: "Martin Rosenfeld" <rosenfeldmj@...>
                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:26 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings


                                                                  > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type?
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Martin Rosenfeld
                                                                  >>
                                                                  >> The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that
                                                                  >> prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I
                                                                  >> saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli
                                                                  >> Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to
                                                                  >> Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec
                                                                  >> Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one
                                                                  >> source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I
                                                                  >> saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built
                                                                  >> by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about
                                                                  >> it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian
                                                                  >> service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief
                                                                  >> Petty Officer"...Don't Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone
                                                                  >> knows-I appreciate a response.
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2315 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: people paying TOO much for kits on ebay wasHow rare are wooden
                                                                  Just be patient, bargains are still out there. I pay on the average about
                                                                  $5.00 each plus shipping for plastic, original Athearn, HObbyline and Varney
                                                                  especially. I virtually never pay over $10 for a wooden or metal car. MDC
                                                                  metal is still a bargain, the ones that seem to go for the most are Ulrich,
                                                                  but even there I've found deals.

                                                                  The worst are the people paying high prices for Bachmann & china Tyco.

                                                                  The problem with the high prices being paid by some people with more money
                                                                  than brains is it drives the asking price up from people who have no
                                                                  knowledge of HO and think that just because it's more than 5 years old it's
                                                                  got to be valuable. Then, those of us who really appreciate the vintage
                                                                  find it being priced out of our range, and the stuff sits, not being sold
                                                                  because the holder has an inflated sense of what it's worth.

                                                                  Don

                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                  Co-moderator
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:17 AM
                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: people paying TOO much for kits on ebay wasHow rare
                                                                  are wooden & metal kits?


                                                                  >I tend to stay with Athearn. It amazes me what happens. I see all ends
                                                                  > of the spectrum!
                                                                  > Who will ever for get the 132 dallar crane!! And there have been others
                                                                  > though not much as grand. Band powered engines go for assorted rates.
                                                                  > And I have seen a few plastic framed Fs go high! Saw a snowbird go high
                                                                  > a few days ago. It was in a box and plastic. Kits go for 10 to 20 most
                                                                  > for tank cars.
                                                                  > And I have seen wooden kits go high. Silver streak mostly. I have a
                                                                  > couple but have not tryed to build um. Also always looking for rare
                                                                  > Athearn boxes.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > I am finding this wooden kit thread interesting!!
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Steamengine4449
                                                                  >
                                                                  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                  > wrote:
                                                                  >> Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there
                                                                  > fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but
                                                                  > there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think. As
                                                                  > far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of
                                                                  > the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on
                                                                  > the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs
                                                                  > think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                  >>
                                                                  >> Don
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2316 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  Another good drive is the original Spectrum GE 44 and 70 tonners, the ones with two motors.  Two of them are driving my brass Electroliner, and a third powers my Walthers North Shore combine.
                                                                   
                                                                  Don
                                                                   
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: jay matz
                                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:00 AM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  Phil
                                                                  Get a Bachmann Gas Electric and take the drive out, or Walthers Gas Electric.
                                                                  It will be cheeper and run better.
                                                                  Jay

                                                                  Philip Martin <martin_lumber@...> wrote:
                                                                  Well, they said the trolley power kit will work, but I would have to find that out.



                                                                  .



                                                                  Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2317 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
                                                                  Dear Group,
                                                                   
                                                                  The seeker of the rare commodity, or who is led to believe it is rare, is "the hunted" and not "the hunter".  This is why I do not play the eBay game. That said, I know of a non- model railroader type who once placed an add in a magazine, willing to pay $3,000 for an Aurora kit of an unbuilt "Godzillamobile." A wealthy lunatic or a student of a hobby madness somewhere in a post-graduate program? I don't know. I laughed hysterically. Several decades back an IPMS national conventioner, attending it in Seattle, alledgedly paid $104 for a Revell kit of a German Wehrmacht (Army) V-2 rocket in 1-72 scale in the original box, only to have that company flood the market several weeks thereafter with the same kit (in plastic bags) at $2.50 apiece. Such are the tales.
                                                                   
                                                                  Common sense should apply itself, but that is becoming the rarest commodity of all. The point is, you cannot buy it on eBay or anywhere else.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                     

                                                                  Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                  I tend to stay with Athearn. It amazes me what happens. I see all ends
                                                                  of the spectrum!
                                                                  Who will ever for get the 132 dallar crane!! And there have been others
                                                                  though not much as grand. Band powered engines go for assorted rates.
                                                                  And I have seen a few plastic framed Fs go high! Saw a snowbird go high
                                                                  a few days ago. It was in a box and plastic. Kits go for 10 to 20 most
                                                                  for tank cars.
                                                                  And I have seen wooden kits go high. Silver streak mostly. I have a
                                                                  couple but have not tryed to build um. Also always looking for rare
                                                                  Athearn boxes.

                                                                  I am finding this wooden kit thread interesting! !

                                                                  Steamengine4449

                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  > Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there
                                                                  fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but
                                                                  there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think. As
                                                                  far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of
                                                                  the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on
                                                                  the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs
                                                                  think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Don



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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2318 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                  My apologies, Group. I have used the red to distinguish it from earlier postings on a given message. I nd the practice with this posting.
                                                                   
                                                                  John (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                  Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                  If you set your mail reader to "plain text" the red goes away.

                                                                  Don

                                                                  don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                  Co-moderator
                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: "Martin Rosenfeld" <rosenfeldmj@ ca.rr.com>
                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:26 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings

                                                                  > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type?
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Martin Rosenfeld
                                                                  >>
                                                                  >> The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that
                                                                  >> prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I
                                                                  >> saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli
                                                                  >> Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to
                                                                  >> Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec
                                                                  >> Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one
                                                                  >> source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I
                                                                  >> saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built
                                                                  >> by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about
                                                                  >> it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian
                                                                  >> service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief
                                                                  >> Petty Officer"...Don' t Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone
                                                                  >> knows-I appreciate a response.
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >



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                                                                  Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2319 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  Dear Phil,
                                                                   
                                                                  No-I know of no manufacturer who makes or made the MRS-1. That would be a great piece.
                                                                  To get WW II Transportation Corps steam, I would have to order a partial brass kit from a British manufacturer. The price in British pounds, if I recall correctly, is 250. We were at $1.50 to one British Pound...se what I mean? Even the PRR's Electroliner went military in the end-a few cars being picked up for some Army experiment and are now on display at Ft. Eustice, Virginia. Gem's old box should be updated to read PRR-RDG-U.S. Army (TC).
                                                                  There are various pieces out there...and somebody is proposing further release of WW II Army hospital cars (beyond what is offered.) Anybody for a Coast Guard GP-7? I've only seen a color photo of a prototype one. Strangest available piece I have seen: a Soviet railcar in captured (by U.S. Army) scheme in the Korean War...the model made and painted in that supposed scheme...by a Russian model manufacturer.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...

                                                                  Philip Martin <martin_lumber@...> wrote:
                                                                  Hello John-
                                                                   
                                                                  Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas?
                                                                  Phil

                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                  From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com>
                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  Dear Jim,
                                                                   
                                                                  I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.
                                                                   
                                                                  Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.
                                                                   
                                                                  You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.
                                                                   
                                                                  I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                    

                                                                  jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                  I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                  of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                  for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                  used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                  them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                  for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                  been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                  sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                  fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                  assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                  be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                  so the sides went on square with the roof.

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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2320 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  I have seen those engines, and they are a close match. There is a company in Brazil who makes a Alco RSD-8, which is also close to a MRS-1, but they are way too expensive. I'll look around for one of those AU engines in plastic. Thanks for your help.
                                                                   
                                                                  Phil

                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                  From: jay matz <dlw455@...>
                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:53:38 AM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  Phil
                                                                  Westside made one in Brass MRS-1 it was also NSWGR Class-48 (Austrailla) . Sold one on Ebay last week.
                                                                  Jay



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                                                                  Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.




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                                                                  Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2321 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  I saw that Roundhouse Hobbies of Alaska imports them because they are an exact match for their ex-Army 2-8-0's they run up there.
                                                                   
                                                                  I would love a Army 2-8-0, because the Cass Scenic Railroad (The railroad I model) has ex-Army 2-8-0 #612 in their deadline. It was from Ft. Eustis. Unfortunetly, the brass kit is way over my head. Now, if it was about $150, I would get it in a heartbeat (Oh yeah, It would have to be assembled).
                                                                   
                                                                  Since Bachmann has produced tons of Cass Scenic Railroad stuff (The Shay, the log car, and now they are producing their excursion cars!) Maybe we can convince them to make the 2-8-0 in a model (They could have a couple of Army numbers, and some Alaska Railroad, and maybe a Tennesee Valley Railroad engine).
                                                                   
                                                                  Who knows? Maybe they will make it.
                                                                   
                                                                  Phil

                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                  From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 9:22:14 AM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  Dear Phil,
                                                                   
                                                                  No-I know of no manufacturer who makes or made the MRS-1. That would be a great piece.
                                                                  To get WW II Transportation Corps steam, I would have to order a partial brass kit from a British manufacturer. The price in British pounds, if I recall correctly, is 250. We were at $1.50 to one British Pound...se what I mean? Even the PRR's Electroliner went military in the end-a few cars being picked up for some Army experiment and are now on display at Ft. Eustice, Virginia. Gem's old box should be updated to read PRR-RDG-U.S. Army (TC).
                                                                  There are various pieces out there...and somebody is proposing further release of WW II Army hospital cars (beyond what is offered.) Anybody for a Coast Guard GP-7? I've only seen a color photo of a prototype one. Strangest available piece I have seen: a Soviet railcar in captured (by U.S. Army) scheme in the Korean War...the model made and painted in that supposed scheme...by a Russian model manufacturer.
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com

                                                                  Philip Martin <martin_lumber@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                  Hello John-
                                                                   
                                                                  Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas?
                                                                  Phil

                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                  From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com>
                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  Dear Jim,
                                                                   
                                                                  I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.
                                                                   
                                                                  Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.
                                                                   
                                                                  You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.
                                                                   
                                                                  I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                    

                                                                  jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                  I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                  of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                  for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                  used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                  them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                  for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                  been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                  sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                  fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                  assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                  be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                  so the sides went on square with the roof.

                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                  It's here! Your new message!
                                                                  Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                                                  http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/




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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2322 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                  Also Farm and Fleet, Fleet Fsrm, the what-ever-it-is Tractor Company
                                                                  have good prices. I got mine at at one of the auto store chains. And,
                                                                  depending on the size, you can use it for an air-nailer for your bench
                                                                  work.

                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > For wood and metal kits I like Floquil applied with an airbrush. A
                                                                  lot of the airbrush compressors are overpriced--check Harbor Freight
                                                                  Tools, Kragen/Schuck's Auto Supply, and even Sears for better prices--
                                                                  just be sure it is an "oilless" compressor. gj
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2323 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...

                                                                  Only one person controls what one pays for something on ebay (or anywhere really), that is the buyer him/her self.. I have purchased several items on ebay and was never forced to pay more than I thought an item was worth. I have bid on many items at the starting price (if reasonable) and made it my maximum bid. Yeah, I don’t get a lot of them that way, but I do get some and then I got a real bargain. I have 3 personal rules;

                                                                  1. Check the shipping cost. If it isn’t listed, click the “contact seller” and ask. If they don’t respond, don’t bid!
                                                                  2. Put in your max amount and DON’T raise it. Some times you may want to put in a low-ball just to get a feel on the interest of other bidders and then do the max.
                                                                  3. If your really serious about an object, do not put in your maximum bid until there is less than a minute left.

                                                                   

                                                                  I have gotten many nice buys doing it this way. Oh yeah, one other thing that is so very basic and normal I almost forgot to mention it but NEVER fail to do; CHECK THE SELLER’S FEEDBACK.

                                                                   

                                                                  John Hagen

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2324 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:33 AM
                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden
                                                                  kit...


                                                                  > Also Farm and Fleet, Fleet Fsrm, the what-ever-it-is Tractor Company
                                                                  > have good prices. I got mine at at one of the auto store chains. And,
                                                                  > depending on the size, you can use it for an air-nailer for your bench
                                                                  > work.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                  >>
                                                                  >> For wood and metal kits I like Floquil applied with an airbrush. A
                                                                  > lot of the airbrush compressors are overpriced--check Harbor Freight
                                                                  > Tools, Kragen/Schuck's Auto Supply, and even Sears for better prices--
                                                                  > just be sure it is an "oilless" compressor. gj

                                                                  I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for a hundred
                                                                  bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual
                                                                  manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for under
                                                                  $20.00.

                                                                  Don

                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                  Co-moderator
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2325 From: jim gerstley Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
                                                                  Any suggestions how to prep the LaBelle cars for painting? For sealing the car sides
                                                                  without damaging the "individual boards" milled into the siding? And getting rid of the
                                                                  wood grain on the roof etc?
                                                                  Thanks
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2326 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
                                                                  Enter our new cover photo contest now.
                                                                  Take your favorite picture featuring Vintage HO
                                                                  equipment (pre-1965 or so), and upload it to
                                                                  the "a contest" photo album before January 31,
                                                                  2006. Photos may feature locomotives, rolling
                                                                  stock, structures or scenery, but must be
                                                                  predominantly "vintage". Please only one entry
                                                                  per member.

                                                                  For the month of February, we will have an open poll
                                                                  for all the members to vote on the photo of their
                                                                  choice. The winner will be the new cover photo for
                                                                  at least till mid summer.
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2327 From: Tom Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Help identifying these cars
                                                                  Hi guys, looking for some help on identifying two old cars I have.
                                                                  Can't figure out who made them. They are in the folder "some of my
                                                                  projects" There is an all diecast maroon hopper car there and a
                                                                  diecast stock car. The stock car has a wooden floor and roof. Diecast
                                                                  sides and ends and brass slides for the doors to slide in. Thanks in
                                                                  advance for your help. Tom
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2328 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                  Hmmmm, now that's interesting. Wonder if it pulls anough vacuum for
                                                                  resin casting.
                                                                  .
                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for
                                                                  a hundred
                                                                  > bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual
                                                                  > manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for
                                                                  under
                                                                  > $20.00.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Don
                                                                  >
                                                                  > don.dellmann@...
                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                  > Owner-Moderator
                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                  > Co-moderator
                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                  >
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2329 From: sean naylor Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
                                                                  I would like to enter, but is January 31, 2006 a typo?
                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                  Sean

                                                                  vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                                                                  Enter our new cover photo contest now.
                                                                  Take your favorite picture featuring Vintage HO
                                                                  equipment (pre-1965 or so), and upload it to
                                                                  the "a contest" photo album before January 31,
                                                                  2006. Photos may feature locomotives, rolling
                                                                  stock, structures or scenery, but must be
                                                                  predominantly "vintage". Please only one entry
                                                                  per member.

                                                                  For the month of February, we will have an open poll
                                                                  for all the members to vote on the photo of their
                                                                  choice. The winner will be the new cover photo for
                                                                  at least till mid summer.



                                                                  Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
                                                                  with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2330 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Help identifying these cars
                                                                  One of the problems is the size of the photos and the inability to
                                                                  enlage them with detail.

                                                                  The hopper LOOKS like a ScaleCraft center frame. My 2-rail "0"
                                                                  ScaleCraft has frames like that, with a rounded "U" channel.
                                                                  The stock LOOKS like some old Walthers I had, except the main frame
                                                                  is cut (not too sure if the frame is from another kit, as generally
                                                                  the floor braces in mine were evenly spaced, but the cut prevents
                                                                  shorts between trucks and/or couplers.

                                                                  Just a rough guess unless I could see a bigger shot.

                                                                  Dave
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Hi guys, looking for some help on identifying two old cars I
                                                                  have.
                                                                  > Can't figure out who made them. They are in the folder "some of
                                                                  my
                                                                  > projects" There is an all diecast maroon hopper car there and a
                                                                  > diecast stock car. The stock car has a wooden floor and roof.
                                                                  Diecast
                                                                  > sides and ends and brass slides for the doors to slide in. Thanks
                                                                  in
                                                                  > advance for your help. Tom
                                                                  >
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2331 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

                                                                  Don,
                                                                  Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like that to prevent "surges"???
                                                                  Dave S.

                                                                  Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                  I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for a hundred 
                                                                  bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual 
                                                                  manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for under 
                                                                  $20.00.
                                                                  
                                                                  Don
                                                                  
                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                  Co-moderator
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                  
                                                                  
                                                                  
                                                                  
                                                                   
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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2332 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal k
                                                                  There is also the remains of a blimp base in Port Townsend, WA--was in "An Officer and a Gentlemen"--but Moffett was the big one.  I'm not sure, but I think that the rigid airships were built by Goodyear under license from Zeppelin. pr were WWI reparations from Germany.  Anyhow, ours were filled with Helium.
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:29 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                  Oh yes-I read or so old film footage of the Macon. Did you ever read who built those huge things for the U.S. Navy? Anyway, I have a "Sparrowhawk" kit in 1:72 scale of the landing gearless fighters that such airships launched and recovered. I grew up in the 1950's seeing the usual blimps out of NAS Lakehurst (New Jersey). Its fame was the Von Hindenberg tragedy in 1937 (?) If you are on the West Coast. a visit to the old NAS at Tillemock, Orgeon (the cheese town), is worth it-for railroad reasons as well as aircraft history.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo)

                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                  Well--SF is near where I used to see them--but Moffett Field doesn't handle "Lighter-than- Air" operations now.  There is a huge hangar that used to house the US Navy's Dirigibles" and the "Blimps" used for coastal defense. The pride of the fleet was the USS Macon, which can still be seen by divers off Point Sur--where she went down before WWII.
                                                                  gj
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:41 AM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                  Dear Glenn,
                                                                   
                                                                  The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August 1972. I saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-Koli Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul ammo to Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My one source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I swore I saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was built by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple" (Hawaiian service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as in "Chief Petty Officer"...Don' t Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone knows-I appreciate a response.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com

                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                  I also liked that car--am thinking of scratchbuilding one in O Scale--as an exercise for the new lathe--the one I built in HO was from an "UMPCo" kit-- (Universal Model Products Co.)--a bunch of wood parts in a cellophane bag.  They also had a chlorine tank car--the type that carried the "ton containers" as used in major water and sewage treatment plants.
                                                                   
                                                                  I used to see the Helium cars near Bayshore Highway at Moffett Field back in the fifties.  I grew up  in Redwood City--I have an official US Navy photo of the Whitcomb diesel switcher that I used to see there.
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:18 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings (was: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                  My favorite Ambroid was/is the U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car. I have several kits. AHM or IHC or somebody brought it out in plastic briefly-so I think it is vintage itself now. I never bought the plastic RTR one.
                                                                  On my way back to Colorado from release from Active Duty my then wife and I visited San Francisco on our way home, and I spotted one of these prototypes (privately owned by then) under a downtown overpass in late August 1972. They were still around by then. Model became prototype spotting-like the Train Miniatures' Wagston, Addison, and Galeston externally-braced wooden boxcar I would spot two years later on a factory siding in Colorado Springs, CO.
                                                                   
                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                  bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com> wrote:
                                                                  OOOPS!. I just checked on mine. It is indeed an Ambroid kit. I have
                                                                  some Quality Craft and Gloorcraft kits that really were started out as
                                                                  later Ambroid kits and then moved or sold to Quality Craft. I
                                                                  thought this was one of them, but mine is actually an Ambroid kit.
                                                                  This is one of those I really want to build, but you can't build them
                                                                  all at once. I do have a little bit of a stock pile for when I retire
                                                                  (hopefully in 4 years) so I can build one a week or so and not get
                                                                  done for at least 3 or 4 years. (GRIN!). Nah, I bet it will take me
                                                                  longer.
                                                                  Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > I believe I have one of those, except mine is a Quality Craft. :o)
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Vic Bitleris
                                                                  > Raleigh, NC
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                  > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                  > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                  > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:58:52 -0600
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@ ...>
                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:49 AM
                                                                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > > Well, I may as well throw my 2 cents in. Personally I think some
                                                                  of the
                                                                  > > best vintage craftsman kits are Ambroid and Northeastern.
                                                                  Usually, you
                                                                  > > can
                                                                  > > pick up most for about $20.00 or less on eBay or at train shows.
                                                                  Several
                                                                  > > of
                                                                  > > these do go for some fairly outrageous prices, but I think the
                                                                  bid for a
                                                                  > > vinegar car that went up to $80.00 was more emotional rather than
                                                                  a true
                                                                  > > representation of the value. I really love the
                                                                  Ambroid/Northeaster n cars
                                                                  > > as
                                                                  > > I feel they are very high quality and are still very nice when built
                                                                  > > properly and can compete against the ready to runs. Assuming, of
                                                                  course
                                                                  > > one
                                                                  > > likes to build these.
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > > Vic Bitleris
                                                                  > > Raleigh, NC
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Ambroid? Never heard of 'em <G>
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Don
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > << MILW451600.jpg >>
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                  > From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide
                                                                  to the
                                                                  > Academy Awards®
                                                                  > http://movies. msn.com/movies/ oscars2007/ ?icid=ncoscartag line1
                                                                  >



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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2333 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Recent J A English acquisitions
                                                                  neat stuff--I have the Pacific with combine and two coaches--just about max load for it.
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: sottguy
                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:04 PM
                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions

                                                                  I have been wanting to acquire a John English coach for some time in
                                                                  the continuing quest to get the more appealing pieces of my modest
                                                                  collection acquired in the '50s. Today I found this coach at a swap
                                                                  meet painted black with Pennsy lettering. Much to my surprise and
                                                                  delight, I also found a combine still in kit form at another table. I
                                                                  never owned the combine but had wanted one bach then. I have posted
                                                                  photos of both in the files under AA -Al's vintage stuff.

                                                                  The coach is shown behing the English A5 0=4-0 Yardbird, my first
                                                                  locomotive back in the very early '50s The combine is shown as the
                                                                  kit - no box, alas.

                                                                  I plan build the combine and repaint the coach.

                                                                  Regars,

                                                                  Al Askerberg

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2334 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                  the present owner of LaBelle is active on several of the narrow gauge Yahoo groups.
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:07 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                  Dear Jim,
                                                                   
                                                                  I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.
                                                                   
                                                                  Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.
                                                                   
                                                                  You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.
                                                                   
                                                                  I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                    

                                                                  jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                  I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                  of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                  for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                  used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                  them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                  for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                  been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                  sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                  fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                  assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                  be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                  so the sides went on square with the roof.

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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2335 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Just wanted to say thanks!
                                                                  I am 36 years old and I am sure i am young compared to many, if not
                                                                  all in the discussion group. Please be paitient with my preface, I
                                                                  will eventually get to my point...
                                                                  I started collecting when I was 13 or 14 and I went to a house
                                                                  auction on the south side of Pittsburgh, PA. I just missed the sale
                                                                  of an old Marx New haven Diesel set which was almost complete; It was
                                                                  missing the flat car load. My dad told me to offer the "winner" $20
                                                                  for the set, so I did and he said yes. I oppened the box to find my
                                                                  first ever set in mint shape. I sat in the car on the way home and
                                                                  took out each piece to look at it, when I did, I went to move the box
                                                                  out of the way, but it was still heavy. I lifted out the insert and
                                                                  found a White Athearn New Haven F7 a & b set and a bunch of other
                                                                  llose painted lead details and people. Since then, I have been
                                                                  modeling the New Haven RR. I never had enough money to buy the items
                                                                  I liked. The stuff that sold cheap, was cheap. (To a kid with NO
                                                                  budget, a $10 car purchase was out of my league.) About 8 years ago I
                                                                  started learning to use the computer. Soon after that I discovered
                                                                  eBay. I would allow myself the occasional purchase when I first
                                                                  started with it 7 years ago. I went back to school in 1998 to earn my
                                                                  engineering degere, so again, I had no money. About 2.5 years ago, I
                                                                  decided to sell off a box of what I considered to be junk. I did ir
                                                                  by selling it one ot two pieces at a time... Low and behold, I made
                                                                  $500 on my junk! From that, I purchased more. At that time, I was
                                                                  taking a chance. I had maybe only one old diecast in my collection
                                                                  and it was only a beat-up old mantua. Since then I have been buying
                                                                  and selling only trains (with the occasional Mustang or Mustang
                                                                  parts) to pay for my train and Mustang habbit. My wife refers to it
                                                                  as my OCD sickness... Most of what I have learned about the vintage
                                                                  trains, I have done so in the past two years from learnin about what
                                                                  I have been buying and selling. I promise to never try to sell
                                                                  anything here, because I do not believe it is the right place. I have
                                                                  all my collecting life searched for a means to aquire the items I
                                                                  liked and information about the items I have see, or have. FINALLY,
                                                                  MY POINT!...

                                                                  Until a couple of weeks ago, I had never thought of joining a
                                                                  discussion group.. I am so happy I did! Most of my train collecting
                                                                  hobby life has been isolated and not able to be shared with anyone
                                                                  else who gave a darn about them. It might be wierd, but at times, I
                                                                  actually become very excited over a certain purchase. Sometimes, I
                                                                  even lose sleep over it. Take for instance the Red Ball crane I
                                                                  picked up last week or the (what I believe to be, but not yet group
                                                                  confirmed) Early Penn Line Mini Diesel. Normally, I would either
                                                                  never find out (which rarely happens because I am too stubborn) or it
                                                                  takes so long, I forget that I was looking for info on it. With this
                                                                  group, so much info has been opened up to me, as well as the chance
                                                                  to connect with other individuals who feel the same about their
                                                                  trains as I do. I just wanted to say thanks. I hope I never offend
                                                                  anyone and I hope someday I can return the favor.

                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                  Sean
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2336 From: sean naylor Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
                                                                  I must agree with everything you said John. For me, it is bid onece, bid the max I am willing to pay and bid within the last 7 seconds... If I get it, great! If no, move on... If it goes over my max, I do not bid! I have had a couple thousand transactions and I can count on one hand the number I have been truely unhappy with...
                                                                  One more hint...
                                                                  Really look at the picture... If the seller does not have a picture in the listing, but he has pictures in other listings... Really question what it is he/she is selling... I learned that one...
                                                                   
                                                                  Sean

                                                                  John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                                  Only one person controls what one pays for something on ebay (or anywhere really), that is the buyer him/her self.. I have purchased several items on ebay and was never forced to pay more than I thought an item was worth. I have bid on many items at the starting price (if reasonable) and made it my maximum bid. Yeah, I don’t get a lot of them that way, but I do get some and then I got a real bargain. I have 3 personal rules;
                                                                  1. Check the shipping cost. If it isn’t listed, click the “contact seller” and ask. If they don’t respond, don’t bid!
                                                                  2. Put in your max amount and DON’T raise it. Some times you may want to put in a low-ball just to get a feel on the interest of other bidders and then do the max.
                                                                  3. If your really serious about an object, do not put in your maximum bid until there is less than a minute left.
                                                                  I have gotten many nice buys doing it this way. Oh yeah, one other thing that is so very basic and normal I almost forgot to mention it but NEVER fail to do; CHECK THE SELLER’S FEEDBACK.
                                                                  John Hagen


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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2337 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions

                                                                  One can see where the Penn Line molds came from for their versions in plastic.

                                                                   

                                                                  Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

                                                                   


                                                                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn Joesten
                                                                  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:48 PM
                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                  Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions

                                                                   

                                                                  neat stuff--I have the Pacific with combine and two coaches--just about max load for it.

                                                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                                                  From: sottguy

                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:04 PM

                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions

                                                                   

                                                                  I have been wanting to acquire a John English coach for some time in
                                                                  the continuing quest to get the more appealing pieces of my modest
                                                                  collection acquired in the '50s. Today I found this coach at a swap
                                                                  meet painted black with Pennsy lettering. Much to my surprise and
                                                                  delight, I also found a combine still in kit form at another table. I
                                                                  never owned the combine but had wanted one bach then. I have posted
                                                                  photos of both in the files under AA -Al's vintage stuff.

                                                                  The coach is shown behing the English A5 0=4-0 Yardbird, my first
                                                                  locomotive back in the very early '50s The combine is shown as the
                                                                  kit - no box, alas.

                                                                  I plan build the combine and repaint the coach.

                                                                  Regars,

                                                                  Al Askerberg

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2338 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                  Really, I don't mind, and it does set it off....hence the "jab-jab"
                                                                  comment I made.
                                                                  Like in the ribs.



                                                                  >
                                                                  > My apologies, Group. I have used the red to distinguish it from
                                                                  earlier postings on a given message. I nd the practice with this
                                                                  posting.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > John (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                  > If you set your mail reader to "plain text" the red goes
                                                                  away.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Don
                                                                  >
                                                                  > don.dellmann@...
                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                  > Owner-Moderator
                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                  > Co-moderator
                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  > From: "Martin Rosenfeld" <rosenfeldmj@...>
                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                  > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:26 PM
                                                                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                  >
                                                                  > > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type?
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > > Martin Rosenfeld
                                                                  > >>
                                                                  > >> The sin of omission-I forgot to say what city I spotted that
                                                                  > >> prototype helium tank car in...San Francisco, CA, in August
                                                                  1972. I
                                                                  > >> saw a Navy three-foot narrow gauge diesel on Oahu at the Koli-
                                                                  Koli
                                                                  > >> Navy Ammo dump that used then still existing trackage to haul
                                                                  ammo to
                                                                  > >> Pearl Harbor. That loco is now Number 19 with the Cumbres &
                                                                  Toltec
                                                                  > >> Railroad (3-foot) down on the Colorado-New Mexico border. My
                                                                  one
                                                                  > >> source says that G.E. built it for the Navy in 1944, but I
                                                                  swore I
                                                                  > >> saw another source (even an advertisement) say the design was
                                                                  built
                                                                  > >> by another, lesser-known company. If you know anything about
                                                                  > >> it-please let me know. The locals call it "the Pineapple"
                                                                  (Hawaiian
                                                                  > >> service), but I heard the Navy crews called it "Chief" (as
                                                                  in "Chief
                                                                  > >> Petty Officer"...Don't Sir me, I work for a living!) If anyone
                                                                  > >> knows-I appreciate a response.
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                  > Need Mail bonding?
                                                                  > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
                                                                  >
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2339 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Recent J A English acquisitions
                                                                  I have also wanted a John English combine for some time, finally got one
                                                                  a couple of months ago, definately harder to find that the coaches.
                                                                  Roger Aultman



                                                                  Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                                  > neat stuff--I have the Pacific with combine and two coaches--just about
                                                                  > max load for it.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  > From: sottguy <mailto:aiberg@...>
                                                                  > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                  > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:04 PM
                                                                  > Subject: [vintageHO] Recent J A English acquisitions
                                                                  >
                                                                  > I have been wanting to acquire a John English coach for some time in
                                                                  > the continuing quest to get the more appealing pieces of my modest
                                                                  > collection acquired in the '50s. Today I found this coach at a swap
                                                                  > meet painted black with Pennsy lettering. Much to my surprise and
                                                                  > delight, I also found a combine still in kit form at another table. I
                                                                  > never owned the combine but had wanted one bach then. I have posted
                                                                  > photos of both in the files under AA -Al's vintage stuff.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > The coach is shown behing the English A5 0=4-0 Yardbird, my first
                                                                  > locomotive back in the very early '50s The combine is shown as the
                                                                  > kit - no box, alas.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > I plan build the combine and repaint the coach.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Regars,
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Al Askerberg




                                                                  >
                                                                  > Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
                                                                  > Change settings via the Web
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                                                                  --
                                                                  http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2340 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                  Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                                  > There is also the remains of a blimp base in Port Townsend, WA--was in
                                                                  > "An Officer and a Gentlemen"--but Moffett was the big one. I'm not
                                                                  > sure, but I think that the rigid airships were built by Goodyear under
                                                                  > license from Zeppelin. pr were WWI reparations from Germany. Anyhow,
                                                                  > ours were filled with Helium.

                                                                  There's also a former blimp base with 2 hangars still standing at
                                                                  Tustin, CA. A couple of sites with history and photos are here:

                                                                  http://www.militarymuseum.org/MCASTustin.html
                                                                  http://www.placesearth.com/USA/California/Orange/code/tustinair.htm

                                                                  The ATSF San Diego main line runs along the northern edge of the
                                                                  base. Google Earth gives a nice overhead photo. Enter "Tustin, CA",
                                                                  center the view over the Marine Corp Air Station in the lower center
                                                                  portion of the display, zoom in and switch to satellite view.

                                                                  --

                                                                  Rick Jones

                                                                  The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                  "One cat just leads to another."
                                                                  - Ernest Hemingway
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2341 From: nycrrmitch Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                  I find them very annoying and generally just delete them.

                                                                  Joe

                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Martin Rosenfeld <rosenfeldmj@...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Does anyone else have trouble reading an e-mail in red type?
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Martin Rosenfeld
                                                                  > >
                                                                  > > snip<
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2342 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                  Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rail to the harbor
                                                                  Attachments :


                                                                    Note: forwarded message attached.


                                                                    Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2343 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                    Phil:
                                                                     Why not try Bowser of Roundhouse they both make a 2-8-0 that would be the right size.
                                                                     Mike Looney
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2344 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rail to the harbor
                                                                    Raymond L and list: There is an ocean going tug boat, marked for the
                                                                    Army Engineers, tied up and on display in the Harbor at Kewaunee,
                                                                    Wisconsin.

                                                                    Been there and toured that, a few years ago. Have photos but, don't
                                                                    have a scanner.... Sorry.....

                                                                    Don L.
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2345 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                    OK--Rick Steele--that's the name I couldn't remember.  He shows up frequently on the On3, Southwest Narrow Gauge, and other related Yahoo sites. 
                                                                     
                                                                    I have built many LaBelle cars over the years--starting with a 5-car  O Standard gauge train back in the mid 1960's while I was in the army---used to run them at John Armstrong's. Have also built 6 or more of the On3 cars as sold under the Star and Carson & Colorado names.  I have the O Scale version of the D&RGW motor car, and have also built a few O Interurbans.
                                                                     
                                                                    One thing I didn't pay attention to while building the On3 San Juan cars--the insure. say not to use white glue--well, I did, had to find enough books and bricks to flatten a dozen car sides until they dried!
                                                                    gj
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:34 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                    Phil,
                                                                     
                                                                    I guess you met Rick and Tanya Steele...and their current site says they are working to import a power unit for the D&RGW gas electric unit.
                                                                     
                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                    Philip Martin <martin_lumber@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                    This summer, while in Cheyenne, we stopped by La Belle Woorworking to get a "tour". We got there, and thought we were at the wrong address. It was a older house on a corner of a road--didn't even look like someone lived there. We figuired that it was the correct house, because it had a La Belle sign in the window. We knocked on the door, and heard a "Come on in". Right when we walked in, we saw boxes of bulk wood, and completed kits. The man, whom I can not recall his name, showed us the original display models, how to make the kit, how to build it. Quite impressive process.
                                                                     
                                                                    I ended up getting a D&RGW motor car, which I built a couple of months ago into a Pullman green/C&NW green paint, with a black roof. I am happy with it, and it was my first laser kit that I have built.
                                                                     
                                                                    I plan on buying the powering kit for it, eventually, and possibly might get a few more of the open platform cars.
                                                                     
                                                                    Phil

                                                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                                                    From: jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com>
                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                    Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01:38 PM
                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                    I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                    of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                    for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                    used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                    them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                    for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                    been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                    sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                    fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                    assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                    be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                    so the sides went on square with the roof.

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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2346 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                    We have one locally--One spotting feature is the cab roof is about the same height as the hood. 6-wheel trucks rather than 4-wheel on civilian RS-1's. The Yreka Western's #244 is rated at 1600 hp--which I would consider to be more of an MRS-3 or 5--It is in daily service hauling veneer and chips to the CORP interchange in Montague from the Timber Products mill near Yreka.
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:35 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                    Hello John-
                                                                     
                                                                    Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas?
                                                                    Phil

                                                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                                                    From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com>
                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                    Dear Jim,
                                                                     
                                                                    I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.
                                                                     
                                                                    Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.
                                                                     
                                                                    You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.
                                                                     
                                                                    I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                      

                                                                    jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                    I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                    of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                    for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                    used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                    them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                    for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                    been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                    sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                    fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                    assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                    be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                    so the sides went on square with the roof.

                                                                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2347 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
                                                                    You betchum.  Regardless of what it says, you still have a few days to enter.
                                                                     
                                                                    Don
                                                                     
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:16 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest

                                                                    I would like to enter, but is January 31, 2006 a typo?
                                                                    Thanks,

                                                                    Enter our new cover photo contest now.
                                                                    Take your favorite picture featuring Vintage HO
                                                                    equipment (pre-1965 or so), and upload it to
                                                                    the "a contest" photo album before January 31,
                                                                    2006. Photos may feature locomotives, rolling
                                                                    stock, structures or scenery, but must be
                                                                    predominantly "vintage". Please only one entry
                                                                    per member.

                                                                    For the month of February, we will have an open poll
                                                                    for all the members to vote on the photo of their
                                                                    choice. The winner will be the new cover photo for
                                                                    at least till mid summer.



                                                                    Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
                                                                    with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2348 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
                                                                    For the roofs I "paint down" tissue paper.  Fit the clerestory inserts but leave loose until after painting.  I airbrush Floquil gray primer all over.  then the finish colors.  You want the wood grain to show (unless you're doing one of the D&SNG's 330-class coaches, with the "scribed steel" siding. or the C&TS fiberglass-sided cars. Then use a good sanding sealer, or styrene siding.
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:18 AM
                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep

                                                                    Any suggestions how to prep the LaBelle cars for painting? For sealing the car sides
                                                                    without damaging the "individual boards" milled into the siding? And getting rid of the
                                                                    wood grain on the roof etc?
                                                                    Thanks

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2349 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:28 PM
                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Just wanted to say thanks!


                                                                    >I am 36 years old and I am sure i am young compared to many, if not
                                                                    > all in the discussion group. Please be paitient with my preface, I
                                                                    > will eventually get to my point...
                                                                    > I started collecting when I was 13 or 14 and I went to a house
                                                                    > auction on the south side of Pittsburgh, PA. I just missed the sale
                                                                    > of an old Marx New haven Diesel set which was almost complete; It was
                                                                    > missing the flat car load. My dad told me to offer the "winner" $20
                                                                    > for the set, so I did and he said yes. I oppened the box to find my
                                                                    > first ever set in mint shape. I sat in the car on the way home and
                                                                    > took out each piece to look at it, when I did, I went to move the box
                                                                    > out of the way, but it was still heavy. I lifted out the insert and
                                                                    > found a White Athearn New Haven F7 a & b set and a bunch of other
                                                                    > llose painted lead details and people. Since then, I have been
                                                                    > modeling the New Haven RR. I never had enough money to buy the items
                                                                    > I liked. The stuff that sold cheap, was cheap. (To a kid with NO
                                                                    > budget, a $10 car purchase was out of my league.) About 8 years ago I
                                                                    > started learning to use the computer. Soon after that I discovered
                                                                    > eBay. I would allow myself the occasional purchase when I first
                                                                    > started with it 7 years ago. I went back to school in 1998 to earn my
                                                                    > engineering degere, so again, I had no money. About 2.5 years ago, I
                                                                    > decided to sell off a box of what I considered to be junk. I did ir
                                                                    > by selling it one ot two pieces at a time... Low and behold, I made
                                                                    > $500 on my junk! From that, I purchased more. At that time, I was
                                                                    > taking a chance. I had maybe only one old diecast in my collection
                                                                    > and it was only a beat-up old mantua. Since then I have been buying
                                                                    > and selling only trains (with the occasional Mustang or Mustang
                                                                    > parts) to pay for my train and Mustang habbit. My wife refers to it
                                                                    > as my OCD sickness... Most of what I have learned about the vintage
                                                                    > trains, I have done so in the past two years from learnin about what
                                                                    > I have been buying and selling. I promise to never try to sell
                                                                    > anything here, because I do not believe it is the right place. I have
                                                                    > all my collecting life searched for a means to aquire the items I
                                                                    > liked and information about the items I have see, or have. FINALLY,
                                                                    > MY POINT!...
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Until a couple of weeks ago, I had never thought of joining a
                                                                    > discussion group.. I am so happy I did! Most of my train collecting
                                                                    > hobby life has been isolated and not able to be shared with anyone
                                                                    > else who gave a darn about them. It might be wierd, but at times, I
                                                                    > actually become very excited over a certain purchase. Sometimes, I
                                                                    > even lose sleep over it. Take for instance the Red Ball crane I
                                                                    > picked up last week or the (what I believe to be, but not yet group
                                                                    > confirmed) Early Penn Line Mini Diesel. Normally, I would either
                                                                    > never find out (which rarely happens because I am too stubborn) or it
                                                                    > takes so long, I forget that I was looking for info on it. With this
                                                                    > group, so much info has been opened up to me, as well as the chance
                                                                    > to connect with other individuals who feel the same about their
                                                                    > trains as I do. I just wanted to say thanks. I hope I never offend
                                                                    > anyone and I hope someday I can return the favor.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Thanks,
                                                                    > Sean

                                                                    It's reading posts like that that make me glad I started the group. Of all
                                                                    the yahoo gorups I'm on (and at last count it was about 84) and the half a
                                                                    dozen or so I own or moderate, this one's may favorite.

                                                                    Don

                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                    Co-moderator
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2350 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                    It would. Want to borrow it?

                                                                    Don

                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:50 PM
                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden
                                                                    kit...


                                                                    > Hmmmm, now that's interesting. Wonder if it pulls anough vacuum for
                                                                    > resin casting.
                                                                    > .
                                                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                    > wrote:
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for
                                                                    > a hundred
                                                                    >> bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual
                                                                    >> manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for
                                                                    > under
                                                                    >> $20.00.
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> Don
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> don.dellmann@...
                                                                    >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                    >> Owner-Moderator
                                                                    >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                    >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                    >> Co-moderator
                                                                    >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2351 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                    >----- Original Message -----
                                                                    >From: Dave Slater
                                                                    >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:40 PM
                                                                    >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden
                                                                    >kit...



                                                                    >Don,
                                                                    >Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like
                                                                    >that to prevent "surges"???
                                                                    >Dave S.

                                                                    Badger claims you don't need it being a diaphragm unit. I did get a tank
                                                                    (actually an old truck air brake resevoir from work), and a regulator and it
                                                                    does help, even if for no other reason than to charge up the tank and not
                                                                    make a lot of noise while you're painting.

                                                                    The only down size is these things only put out about 30-35 PSI, fine for
                                                                    solvent paint, but maybe a little light for acrylics.

                                                                    Don

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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2352 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                    that's why I went with the DeVilbiss 1hp unit I have--with a 3-gallon tank.  Also spends much less time running.  Takes about a minute to fill the tank initially--to 125 psi--then when tank pressure drops to 75 psi it kicks in for 15-20 sec.   Quiet the rest of the time.
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:40 AM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...


                                                                    Don,
                                                                    Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like that to prevent "surges"???
                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                    Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                                    I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell for a hundred 
                                                                    bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the actual 
                                                                    manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus for under 
                                                                    $20.00.
                                                                    
                                                                    Don
                                                                    
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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2353 From: Garrett and Libby Rea Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
                                                                    Steel wool works wonders.

                                                                    Garrett
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2354 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                    ight. I'll let you know. Thanks.

                                                                    John Hagen

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                    wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > It would. Want to borrow it?
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Don
                                                                    >
                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    > From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                    > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:50 PM
                                                                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a
                                                                    wooden
                                                                    > kit...
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Hmmmm, now that's interesting. Wonder if it pulls anough vacuum
                                                                    for
                                                                    > > resin casting.
                                                                    > > .
                                                                    > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@>
                                                                    > > wrote:
                                                                    > >>
                                                                    > >> I found that little Badger diaphragm compressor that they sell
                                                                    for
                                                                    > > a hundred
                                                                    > >> bucks at the hobby shop as a "vacuum pump" from Thomas (the
                                                                    actual
                                                                    > >> manufacturer of the Badger unit) at American Science & Surplus
                                                                    for
                                                                    > > under
                                                                    > >> $20.00.
                                                                    > >>
                                                                    > >> Don
                                                                    > >>
                                                                    > >> don.dellmann@
                                                                    > >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                    > >> Owner-Moderator
                                                                    > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                    > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                    > >> Co-moderator
                                                                    > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                    > >>
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    >
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2355 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                    Boy I hate it when I press the "ctrl" key instead of the "shift" key.
                                                                    The message was supposed to read "Might, I'll let you know. Thanks"

                                                                    John Hagen

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > ight. I'll let you know. Thanks.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > John Hagen
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2356 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
                                                                    I have switched to things like Scotch Brite* instead of steel wool in my etching plant/studio/factory and it doea the job well. Steel wool has an annoying habit of rusting. Maybe not as quickly in the hobby room, but your may nevertheless have bits of steel and/or rust influencing your paintwork. Substitues may often be had in the "dollar" stores, too.
                                                                     
                                                                    My 2 cents' worth...
                                                                     
                                                                    Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                    Garrett and Libby Rea <glmp1995@...> wrote:
                                                                    Steel wool works wonders.

                                                                    Garrett



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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2357 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)
                                                                    John, it happens to me all the time. Wish I could move that button easily. Too many times I touch it lightly when trying to type "S" instead of "s" and send the darned e-mail without finishing it.

                                                                    John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                                    Boy I hate it when I press the "ctrl" key instead of the "shift" key.
                                                                    The message was supposed to read "Might, I'll let you know. Thanks"

                                                                    John Hagen

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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2358 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep

                                                                    You bring up a valid point, especially with the modern acrylic water-based paints in use today. They are really a major advancement in painting. No solvents, non-flammable, fast drying, air-brush clogging, impossible to get a smooth 2nd coat with, gloss beads up and ruins the entire paint job, drives ME NUTS, I HATE USING THE GOOEY CRAP!!!

                                                                     

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote:

                                                                    >  

                                                                    > I have switched to things like Scotch Brite* instead of steel wool in my etching plant/studio/factory and it doea the job well. Steel wool has an annoying habit of rusting. Maybe not as quickly in the hobby room, but your may nevertheless have bits of steel and/or rust influencing your paintwork. Substitues may often be had in the "dollar" stores, too.

                                                                    >   

                                                                    >   My 2 cents' worth...

                                                                    >   

                                                                    >   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                    >

                                                                    > Garrett and Libby Rea <glmp1995@...> wrote:

                                                                    >   Steel wool works wonders.

                                                                    >

                                                                    > Garrett

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2359 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                    Thanks Don,
                                                                    I may just stick to my original plan and run an airline down to the basement from the compressor in the attached toy box, oops make that GARAGE..  <VBG> I'll put a regulator and traps on it too of course.. <G>
                                                                    Dave S. (Cheapskate in training).

                                                                    Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                    ----- Original Message ----- 
                                                                    From: Dave Slater
                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:40 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden 
                                                                    kit...
                                                                        
                                                                    
                                                                    
                                                                      
                                                                    Don,
                                                                    Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like 
                                                                    that to prevent "surges"???
                                                                    Dave S.
                                                                        
                                                                    Badger claims you don't need it being a diaphragm unit. I did get a tank 
                                                                    (actually an old truck air brake resevoir from work), and a regulator and it 
                                                                    does help, even if for no other reason than to charge up the tank and not 
                                                                    make a lot of noise while you're painting.
                                                                    
                                                                    The only down size is these things only put out about 30-35 PSI, fine for 
                                                                    solvent paint, but maybe a little light for acrylics.
                                                                    
                                                                    Don
                                                                    
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                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2360 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: --- In scalecentral@yahoogroups.com, "n9lge" wrote:

                                                                    Hi Cheapska…, er, that is, Dave.

                                                                     

                                                                    By all means use the garage compressor if it’s feasible. Back a couple of houses ago I had it kind of reversed, my compressor was in the basement and I ran a line outside to air up tires, etc. I had a detached garage at the time so it wasn’t practical to do it the right way, as you are. You will need a real good water separator or maybe use 2, one “normal” size mounted close to the compressor and a Paasche separator right in the air brush hose. I think I paid something around $8 - $9 bucks at my LHS for it and seems to do a better job than the one located in the main air line. Having it in the garage makes for a nice, quiet work area. I’m still in a house with a detached garage so now I have 2 compressors, both small industrial types. I just can’t justify in my mind spending as much or more to get a unit that can’t do much more than ran an air brush. Maybe I’m the cheapskate, but I prefer frugal.

                                                                     

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:

                                                                    >  

                                                                    > Thanks Don,

                                                                    > I may just stick to my original plan and run an airline down to the

                                                                    > basement from the compressor in the attached toy box, oops make that

                                                                    > GARAGE..  <VBG> I'll put a regulator and traps on it too of course.. <G>

                                                                    > Dave S. (Cheapskate in training).

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2361 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
                                                                    Glenn,
                                                                     
                                                                    I don't know what to say, but if the new ownership inherited any of its past indebtedness-you may be part of that and should bellow at them-if you have documentation of purchase or money sent. I have a hunch you did business with them out of Rockhill Furnace...I have no idea what they were like or what the new group is like out of Lewistown. Cannot hurt to touch base.
                                                                     
                                                                    John

                                                                    Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                    I kept getting "delaying" responses--then the company was sold--
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: Wobbly913
                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:31 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                    That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.
                                                                     
                                                                    Wobbly913

                                                                    John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                    Dear Glenn,
                                                                     
                                                                    I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".
                                                                     
                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0

                                                                    Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                    Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                    Dear Don and Group,
                                                                     
                                                                    Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                     
                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                    Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                    You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                     
                                                                    To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                     
                                                                    Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                     
                                                                    Don
                                                                     
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                    Dear Maryann,
                                                                     
                                                                    To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                     
                                                                    Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                     
                                                                    Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                    (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                     
                                                                    Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                     
                                                                    One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                     
                                                                    I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                     
                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     


                                                                    "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                    I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                    was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                    wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                    what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                    If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                    this group.

                                                                    Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                    DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                    http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                    PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                    have. See that file for more INFO...



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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2362 From: sean naylor Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                    Sounds like a plan for me too... The problem is, when my compressor kicks on, it makes the entire house shake... The first (and last) time it happened it was shortly after I purchased it (2005 birthday present). It is one of those BIG uprights. It was 2:30 AM and my wife wanted to kill me... Now i remember to shut it off and drain the tank when I am done using it. I have plans to run lines all over my garage, basement and to the back of the house
                                                                    Sean

                                                                    Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
                                                                    Thanks Don,
                                                                    I may just stick to my original plan and run an airline down to the basement from the compressor in the attached toy box, oops make that GARAGE..  <VBG> I'll put a regulator and traps on it too of course.. <G>
                                                                    Dave S. (Cheapskate in training).

                                                                    Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----   From: Dave Slater  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:40 PM  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden   kit...      
                                                                            
                                                                    Don,  Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like   that to prevent "surges"???  Dave S.      
                                                                      Badger claims you don't need it being a
                                                                     diaphragm unit. I did get a tank   (actually an old truck air brake resevoir from work), and a regulator and it   does help, even if for no other reason than to charge up the tank and not   make a lot of noise while you're painting.    The only down size is these things only put out about 30-35 PSI, fine for   solvent paint, but maybe a little light for acrylics.    Don    don.dellmann@ prodigy.net  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann  Owner-Moderator  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO  Co-moderator  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY               Yahoo! Groups Links    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/    <*> Your email settings:      Individual Email | Traditional    <*> To change settings online go to:      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ join      (Yahoo! ID required)    <*> To change settings via email:      mailto:vintageHO- digest@yahoogrou ps.com       mailto:vintageHO- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com    <*> To unsubscribe from
                                                                     this group, send an email to:      vintageHO-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:      http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/           


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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2363 From: John Hagen Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)
                                                                    Gee, fred, I thought it was only us old guys that had that problem.
                                                                    Heck you're, lets see now, 4 years my junior so....

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > John, it happens to me all the time. Wish I could move that button
                                                                    easily. Too many times I touch it lightly when trying to type "S"
                                                                    instead of "s" and send the darned e-mail without finishing it.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: Boy I hate it when I press
                                                                    the "ctrl" key instead of the "shift" key.
                                                                    > The message was supposed to read "Might, I'll let you know. Thanks"
                                                                    >
                                                                    > John Hagen
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2364 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
                                                                    Dear Group,
                                                                     
                                                                    The MRS-1 is well-covered on Internet sites. I found a wealth of information by just typing "MRS-1 diesel locomotive" and hitting Web Search.  The San Diego Railroad Museum site will produce an interior diagram of the locomotive which has enumerated parts below the drawing that you can click on and see a photo of the area of the locomotive.
                                                                     
                                                                    The MRS-1 is fast becoming, to my thinking, a candidate for popular manufacturers to market, given its wide use. I have an Army-decorated EMD-40 "Critter", a piece of history, but the real-life company only built eleven. There were more MRS-1's, three of the five preserved locos still in running condition. I do not know about anyone else, but we have F-3's, F-7's, and a slew of others up our ying-yangs. How many DCC, sound-equipped versions of these by how many different makers do we need? The MRS-1's would be new locos, but they can toat a lot of old cars around.
                                                                     
                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                    Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                    We have one locally--One spotting feature is the cab roof is about the same height as the hood. 6-wheel trucks rather than 4-wheel on civilian RS-1's. The Yreka Western's #244 is rated at 1600 hp--which I would consider to be more of an MRS-3 or 5--It is in daily service hauling veneer and chips to the CORP interchange in Montague from the Timber Products mill near Yreka.
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:35 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                    Hello John-
                                                                     
                                                                    Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas?
                                                                    Phil

                                                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                                                    From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com>
                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                    Dear Jim,
                                                                     
                                                                    I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.
                                                                     
                                                                    Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.
                                                                     
                                                                    You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.
                                                                     
                                                                    I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                      

                                                                    jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                    I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                    of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                    for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                    used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                    them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                    for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                    been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                    sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                    fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                    assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                    be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                    so the sides went on square with the roof.

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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2365 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: --- In scalecentral@yahoogroups.com, "n9lge" wrote:
                                                                    John,
                                                                    You are correct, Frugal is a better choice of words..  LOL
                                                                    I agree on the water traps, sometimes the bigger ones are not that efficient, we have a huge "air dryer" in the lines coming off the huge main compressors (2 of them) at the plant I work in then there are regular water traps at all the presses. Some days when the humidity is quite high we have to drain the traps twice a shift, 10 hours.
                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                    John Hagen wrote:

                                                                    Hi Cheapska…, er, that is, Dave.

                                                                     

                                                                    By all means use the garage compressor if it’s feasible. Back a couple of houses ago I had it kind of reversed, my compressor was in the basement and I ran a line outside to air up tires, etc. I had a detached garage at the time so it wasn’t practical to do it the right way, as you are. You will need a real good water separator or maybe use 2, one “normal” size mounted close to the compressor and a Paasche separator right in the air brush hose. I think I paid something around $8 - $9 bucks at my LHS for it and seems to do a better job than the one located in the main air line. Having it in the garage makes for a nice, quiet work area. I’m still in a house with a detached garage so now I have 2 compressors, both small industrial types. I just can’t justify in my mind spending as much or more to get a unit that can’t do much more than ran an air brush. Maybe I’m the cheapskate, but I prefer frugal.

                                                                     

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:

                                                                    >  

                                                                    > Thanks Don,

                                                                    > I may just stick to my original plan and run an airline down to the

                                                                    > basement from the compressor in the attached toy box, oops make that

                                                                    > GARAGE..  <VBG> I'll put a regulator and traps on it too of course.. <G>

                                                                    > Dave S. (Cheapskate in training).


                                                                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/655 - Release Date: 1/28/2007 1:12 PM
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2366 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
                                                                    Folks,
                                                                     
                                                                    An ancient army with its navy was pharoah's. Recruits all went through "boot", and the VHS tape I have (30 minutes long) would make Vets cringe with the similarities of things they did way back when at "Basic". Not changed much in 3,000 to 4,000 years, starting with haircuts. Upon completion, some got assigned to Nile transports as deck hands (the ancient Egyptians never had a deep-water navy...they had a defense pact with the Minoans who provided "blue water" defense.) One tomb they discovered near a small town was an ancient local boy who did good-seven gold necklaces (equivalent of today's Congressional Medal of Honor.) He was Crew Commander Ohkmos (Navy?)...he rose through the enlisted ranks and lived to retire at age 55 (very old in those days.) He got into some battles, starting with Avaris in the Nile Delta Region. I think he was Ancient Egypt's "Audie Murphy"-and an army brat to boot. His tomb walls' hieroglyphs tell the story of one career military man's life-like his "201 file."  Only one private rose to a higher rank-Horrumheb"-and he was a general who became pharoah for about 24 years.
                                                                     
                                                                    Off subject? Consider that the ancient Egyptians were two-thirds of the way to inventing the railroad as they built the Great Pyramid at Giza (Khufu's pyramid.)  Egyptologists found "ties" embedded in a resin-coated surfaces that topped the ramps they used-and those ancient folk even invented switch turn-out ties. Very close...very close...
                                                                     
                                                                    John  

                                                                    DLeistikow@... wrote:
                                                                    Raymond L and list: There is an ocean going tug boat, marked for the
                                                                    Army Engineers, tied up and on display in the Harbor at Kewaunee,
                                                                    Wisconsin.

                                                                    Been there and toured that, a few years ago. Have photos but, don't
                                                                    have a scanner.... Sorry.....

                                                                    Don L.



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                                                                    Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2367 From: Philip Martin Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
                                                                    There are 2 MRS-1's at the Cass Scenic Railroad also--both were in running condition (with very little work) before they were put on the deadline, along with 2 ex-B&O S4's. They are of ex-South Branch Valley orgin, and formerly were at the Colt's Neck Ammunition Depot. These were the engines I wanted to model. The 28 (one of the 2) was used as the Shop switcher at Cass for a while, until they got their 65 tonner working.
                                                                     
                                                                    Phil

                                                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                                                    From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:18:47 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] MRS-1...a Click Away

                                                                    Dear Group,
                                                                     
                                                                    The MRS-1 is well-covered on Internet sites. I found a wealth of information by just typing "MRS-1 diesel locomotive" and hitting Web Search.  The San Diego Railroad Museum site will produce an interior diagram of the locomotive which has enumerated parts below the drawing that you can click on and see a photo of the area of the locomotive.
                                                                     
                                                                    The MRS-1 is fast becoming, to my thinking, a candidate for popular manufacturers to market, given its wide use. I have an Army-decorated EMD-40 "Critter", a piece of history, but the real-life company only built eleven. There were more MRS-1's, three of the five preserved locos still in running condition. I do not know about anyone else, but we have F-3's, F-7's, and a slew of others up our ying-yangs. How many DCC, sound-equipped versions of these by how many different makers do we need? The MRS-1's would be new locos, but they can toat a lot of old cars around.
                                                                     
                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                    Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                    We have one locally--One spotting feature is the cab roof is about the same height as the hood. 6-wheel trucks rather than 4-wheel on civilian RS-1's. The Yreka Western's #244 is rated at 1600 hp--which I would consider to be more of an MRS-3 or 5--It is in daily service hauling veneer and chips to the CORP interchange in Montague from the Timber Products mill near Yreka.
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:35 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                    Hello John-
                                                                     
                                                                    Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas?
                                                                    Phil

                                                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                                                    From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com>
                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                    Dear Jim,
                                                                     
                                                                    I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.
                                                                     
                                                                    Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.
                                                                     
                                                                    You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.
                                                                     
                                                                    I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                      

                                                                    jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                    I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                    of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                    for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                    used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                    them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                    for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                    been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                    sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                    fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                    assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                    be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                    so the sides went on square with the roof.

                                                                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                    It's here! Your new message!
                                                                    Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                                                    http://tools. search.yahoo. com/toolbar/ features/ mail/




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                                                                    Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.


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                                                                    Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.




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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2368 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                    Vic:
                                                                    This is not similar to a white glue at all, not even in the same class, but
                                                                    you can get it at a Michael store under another name, and it is the same has
                                                                    what MircoScale has for doing windows, and that Testors has out for clear
                                                                    parts and windows, but it is not anywhere close to being the same has Elmers
                                                                    white glue or even the yellow glue you are talking about. Just wanted to
                                                                    clear that up.
                                                                    Mike Looney
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2369 From: John Barlow Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
                                                                    That's two votes, I think.
                                                                     
                                                                    The newer Air Force tended to buy commercially available types for service at air bases here. I saw a GE 44-tonner at McGuire AFB (New Jersey) when I delivered my hold baggage for shipping to Lowry AFB, Colorado, as I was about to go on Active Duty. I cursed myself for not having a camera. A year or so before, I saw "blue belly" RS types doing coal hopper switching work at Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio. I noticed that a New Haven RS switched out Otis AFB up on Cape Cod in the summer of 1968, but I think because the Commonwealth of Massachusetts leased the base to the Air Force, the New Haven got the contract.
                                                                     
                                                                    The Air Force's railroad repository is Hill AFB, Ogden, Utah. What may or may not still be there would be interesting to find out.
                                                                     
                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     


                                                                    Philip Martin <martin_lumber@...> wrote:
                                                                    There are 2 MRS-1's at the Cass Scenic Railroad also--both were in running condition (with very little work) before they were put on the deadline, along with 2 ex-B&O S4's. They are of ex-South Branch Valley orgin, and formerly were at the Colt's Neck Ammunition Depot. These were the engines I wanted to model. The 28 (one of the 2) was used as the Shop switcher at Cass for a while, until they got their 65 tonner working.
                                                                     
                                                                    Phil

                                                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                                                    From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com>
                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                    Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:18:47 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] MRS-1...a Click Away

                                                                    Dear Group,
                                                                     
                                                                    The MRS-1 is well-covered on Internet sites. I found a wealth of information by just typing "MRS-1 diesel locomotive" and hitting Web Search.  The San Diego Railroad Museum site will produce an interior diagram of the locomotive which has enumerated parts below the drawing that you can click on and see a photo of the area of the locomotive.
                                                                     
                                                                    The MRS-1 is fast becoming, to my thinking, a candidate for popular manufacturers to market, given its wide use. I have an Army-decorated EMD-40 "Critter", a piece of history, but the real-life company only built eleven. There were more MRS-1's, three of the five preserved locos still in running condition. I do not know about anyone else, but we have F-3's, F-7's, and a slew of others up our ying-yangs. How many DCC, sound-equipped versions of these by how many different makers do we need? The MRS-1's would be new locos, but they can toat a lot of old cars around.
                                                                     
                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                    Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                    We have one locally--One spotting feature is the cab roof is about the same height as the hood. 6-wheel trucks rather than 4-wheel on civilian RS-1's. The Yreka Western's #244 is rated at 1600 hp--which I would consider to be more of an MRS-3 or 5--It is in daily service hauling veneer and chips to the CORP interchange in Montague from the Timber Products mill near Yreka.
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:35 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                    Hello John-
                                                                     
                                                                    Since you said that you collect millitary equipment, do you know where to get a RSD-1 or a MRS-1 model? Somewhere I saw a photo of a MRS-1 model. You could possibly cut a Atlas model to make a RSD-1, but I am clueless on a MRS-1. Any ideas?
                                                                    Phil

                                                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                                                    From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com>
                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:07:48 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] wooden passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                    Dear Jim,
                                                                     
                                                                    I would recommend a handy little tool for keeping car sides square without you having to physically hold them yourself...and if you are familiar with MicroMark's various tool offerings-I think you know what I mean.
                                                                     
                                                                    Years ago Walthers line of metal-sided/ pre-shaped wood- (later, plastic-) roofed car kits had a way of providing power to passenger car interiors while also allowing the burned out bulbs to be accessed and replaced inside. a long shaft (relative term as to length) screw or bolt was screwed through the floor and into a plate (with the proper hole), mounted permanently above it on the roof's interior. It was the means also of conducting electricity to the buls (in series circuitry) and another screw or bolt was used at the other end, attached to the other truck of opposite electrical polarity. Most people who did this normally ran the screw or bolt through the lavatories on either end of a detailed interior passenger car.
                                                                     
                                                                    You don't need to want to light the interior to use the technique as a means of securing the roof. I've seen telescoping brass tubing used to also achieve this securing and electrical lighting power effect.
                                                                     
                                                                    I still see LaBelle at Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I have a private road project in mind for their D&RGW gas electric kit myself. I also collect prototype military rail equipment when possible, and LaBelle is the only company that offers a U.S. Navy narrow gauge box car of the old Koli-koli Pass Ammo Dump to Pearl Harbor line. Too bad the old "Chief" (sometimes called "Pineapple"- very disrespectful) isn't made (YET!!!) in any scale.
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                      

                                                                    jim gerstley <jimggers@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                    I've built several of the LaBelle wood passenger cars. They are a bit
                                                                    of work but I really enjoyed assemblying them. They are easy to modify
                                                                    for specific prototypes too; I built several to NP prototypes. LaBelle
                                                                    used to be very flexible about cusotmizing the kits when you ordered
                                                                    them, switching some of the wood side components or windows as needed
                                                                    for a specific car. Don't know if that is still true or not as it's
                                                                    been awhile since I've bought any. I have yet to paint any though. Not
                                                                    sure how to go about sealing/painting. Also have to figure how to
                                                                    fasten the roof as I did not glue it down. Trickiest parts for me in
                                                                    assembly is that the instructions don't say how high the sides should
                                                                    be. And since I wanted a removable roof, holding the assembly together
                                                                    so the sides went on square with the roof.

                                                                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                    It's here! Your new message!
                                                                    Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
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                                                                    Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.


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                                                                    Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.



                                                                    Get your own web address.
                                                                    Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.


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                                                                    See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2370 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 1/28/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
                                                                    As for me since I live so far away from both Amarillo, Texas as well as the OKC area. I seem to do most of my hobby supply ordering as well online. Other than using Walthers for my main hobby shop, it is one of the online ones that I have found and have found Hobby Time that is in Amarillo.  But we do have a very nice train only hobby shop that I do try to spend time and monry at, which is in the OKC area.
                                                                     
                                                                    So far I have been very lucky not to have any or any major problems with any one of the three that I now am using to get what I may need for the hobby and layout.
                                                                     
                                                                     
                                                                    Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                    PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                    See what you are saying to me !!!
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2371 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                    So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel
                                                                    boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds
                                                                    with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was
                                                                    truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the
                                                                    ad.
                                                                    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%
                                                                    3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1

                                                                    Steamengine4449
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2372 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Kits-to-Prototype Sightings
                                                                    Thanks.

                                                                    BTW put it at the top as you are doing. That way everyone knows. If you
                                                                    want a color use blue or green. Much more gentle to read.

                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > My apologies, Group. I have used the red to distinguish it from
                                                                    earlier postings on a given message. I nd the practice with this
                                                                    posting.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > John (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2373 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                    I too am a MRS1 fan. But too broke to pay hundreds for it!

                                                                    Interesting about the Russian car!!! Can only wonder if that really
                                                                    happened. And why a Russian would paint it!! Maybe he did not like
                                                                    the soviet union.

                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                    > Dear Phil,
                                                                    >
                                                                    > No-I know of no manufacturer who makes or made the MRS-1. That
                                                                    would be a great piece.
                                                                    > To get WW II Transportation Corps steam, I would have to order a
                                                                    partial brass kit from a British manufacturer. The price in British
                                                                    pounds, if I recall correctly, is 250. We were at $1.50 to one
                                                                    British Pound...se what I mean? Even the PRR's Electroliner went
                                                                    military in the end-a few cars being picked up for some Army
                                                                    experiment and are now on display at Ft. Eustice, Virginia. Gem's old
                                                                    box should be updated to read PRR-RDG-U.S. Army (TC).
                                                                    > There are various pieces out there...and somebody is proposing
                                                                    further release of WW II Army hospital cars (beyond what is offered.)
                                                                    Anybody for a Coast Guard GP-7? I've only seen a color photo of a
                                                                    prototype one. Strangest available piece I have seen: a Soviet
                                                                    railcar in captured (by U.S. Army) scheme in the Korean War...the
                                                                    model made and painted in that supposed scheme...by a Russian model
                                                                    manufacturer.
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2374 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
                                                                    Hi Sean,

                                                                    I am only 25 so I am younger then you. But I am into all eras of
                                                                    Athearn and MDC. Still trying to catch an Athearn orginal Steamer in
                                                                    good shape. Also looking for an Athearn Rectifyer! I have an
                                                                    assortment of Athearns. Most interesting being a Carnation passenger
                                                                    car set. It was a neat mail order thing. One would order um one at a
                                                                    time. I got um on ebay a year or two ago. All silver. F7s and
                                                                    passenger cars. And I have an assortment of freight cars. all eras.
                                                                    Along with assorted engines. Including an AB of band powered Daylight
                                                                    Fs and an SP RDC1. Yes the SP one was a special. But it is way cool!!

                                                                    Neat that your set was EXSTRA full!!! I am guessing you stil have
                                                                    them all?

                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                                    wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > I am 36 years old and I am sure i am young compared to many, if not
                                                                    > all in the discussion group. Please be paitient with my preface, I
                                                                    > will eventually get to my point...
                                                                    > I started collecting when I was 13 or 14 and I went to a house
                                                                    > auction on the south side of Pittsburgh, PA. I just missed the sale
                                                                    > of an old Marx New haven Diesel set which was almost complete; It
                                                                    was
                                                                    > missing the flat car load. My dad told me to offer the "winner" $20
                                                                    > for the set, so I did and he said yes. I oppened the box to find my
                                                                    > first ever set in mint shape. I sat in the car on the way home and
                                                                    > took out each piece to look at it, when I did, I went to move the
                                                                    box
                                                                    > out of the way, but it was still heavy. I lifted out the insert and
                                                                    > found a White Athearn New Haven F7 a & b set and a bunch of other
                                                                    > llose painted lead details and people. Since then, I have been
                                                                    > modeling the New Haven RR. I never had enough money to buy the
                                                                    items
                                                                    > I liked. The stuff that sold cheap, was cheap. (To a kid with NO
                                                                    > budget, a $10 car purchase was out of my league.) About 8 years ago
                                                                    I
                                                                    > started learning to use the computer. Soon after that I discovered
                                                                    > eBay. I would allow myself the occasional purchase when I first
                                                                    > started with it 7 years ago. I went back to school in 1998 to earn
                                                                    my
                                                                    > engineering degere, so again, I had no money. About 2.5 years ago,
                                                                    I
                                                                    > decided to sell off a box of what I considered to be junk. I did ir
                                                                    > by selling it one ot two pieces at a time... Low and behold, I made
                                                                    > $500 on my junk! From that, I purchased more. At that time, I was
                                                                    > taking a chance. I had maybe only one old diecast in my collection
                                                                    > and it was only a beat-up old mantua. Since then I have been buying
                                                                    > and selling only trains (with the occasional Mustang or Mustang
                                                                    > parts) to pay for my train and Mustang habbit. My wife refers to it
                                                                    > as my OCD sickness... Most of what I have learned about the vintage
                                                                    > trains, I have done so in the past two years from learnin about
                                                                    what
                                                                    > I have been buying and selling. I promise to never try to sell
                                                                    > anything here, because I do not believe it is the right place. I
                                                                    have
                                                                    > all my collecting life searched for a means to aquire the items I
                                                                    > liked and information about the items I have see, or have. FINALLY,
                                                                    > MY POINT!...
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Until a couple of weeks ago, I had never thought of joining a
                                                                    > discussion group.. I am so happy I did! Most of my train collecting
                                                                    > hobby life has been isolated and not able to be shared with anyone
                                                                    > else who gave a darn about them. It might be wierd, but at times, I
                                                                    > actually become very excited over a certain purchase. Sometimes, I
                                                                    > even lose sleep over it. Take for instance the Red Ball crane I
                                                                    > picked up last week or the (what I believe to be, but not yet group
                                                                    > confirmed) Early Penn Line Mini Diesel. Normally, I would either
                                                                    > never find out (which rarely happens because I am too stubborn) or
                                                                    it
                                                                    > takes so long, I forget that I was looking for info on it. With
                                                                    this
                                                                    > group, so much info has been opened up to me, as well as the chance
                                                                    > to connect with other individuals who feel the same about their
                                                                    > trains as I do. I just wanted to say thanks. I hope I never offend
                                                                    > anyone and I hope someday I can return the favor.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Thanks,
                                                                    > Sean
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2375 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: "Caveat Emptor"...
                                                                    Yeah I hear you there!
                                                                    I have been happy with most of mine too. The worst was an IHC GG1. It
                                                                    looked great in the pic but the one I got was smashed at BOTH ends!
                                                                    That really REALLY bummed me out! I still have not gotten a
                                                                    replacement. Do not think of it most of the time. BTW yes I am a GG1
                                                                    fan even though it is a bit out of my line. My main RR is Southern
                                                                    Pacific. Second is CNW. My concept RR has them interchanging with a
                                                                    yard. Yes I like switchyards. Sadly I do not have room right now for
                                                                    it. So I have a small layout. But still GG1s are soo cool!

                                                                    I have never bought one with no picture. I have rarely even seen one
                                                                    with no picture.

                                                                    Stemaengine4449

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > I must agree with everything you said John. For me, it is bid onece,
                                                                    bid the max I am willing to pay and bid within the last 7 seconds... If
                                                                    I get it, great! If no, move on... If it goes over my max, I do not
                                                                    bid! I have had a couple thousand transactions and I can count on one
                                                                    hand the number I have been truely unhappy with...
                                                                    > One more hint...
                                                                    > Really look at the picture... If the seller does not have a picture
                                                                    in the listing, but he has pictures in other listings... Really
                                                                    question what it is he/she is selling... I learned that one...
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Sean
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2376 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
                                                                    That is all VERY interesting!! I did not know they came that close to
                                                                    inventing Railroading. Makes me wonder how close they really got....
                                                                    IE rail and horse drawn cars I suppose...
                                                                    I have wondered how those HUGE pyramids were made.

                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Folks,
                                                                    >
                                                                    > An ancient army with its navy was pharoah's. Recruits all went
                                                                    through "boot", and the VHS tape I have (30 minutes long) would make
                                                                    Vets cringe with the similarities of things they did way back when
                                                                    at "Basic". Not changed much in 3,000 to 4,000 years, starting with
                                                                    haircuts. Upon completion, some got assigned to Nile transports as
                                                                    deck hands (the ancient Egyptians never had a deep-water navy...they
                                                                    had a defense pact with the Minoans who provided "blue water"
                                                                    defense.) One tomb they discovered near a small town was an ancient
                                                                    local boy who did good-seven gold necklaces (equivalent of today's
                                                                    Congressional Medal of Honor.) He was Crew Commander Ohkmos
                                                                    (Navy?)...he rose through the enlisted ranks and lived to retire at
                                                                    age 55 (very old in those days.) He got into some battles, starting
                                                                    with Avaris in the Nile Delta Region. I think he was Ancient
                                                                    Egypt's "Audie Murphy"-and an army brat to boot. His tomb walls'
                                                                    hieroglyphs tell the story of one career military man's
                                                                    > life-like his "201 file." Only one private rose to a higher rank-
                                                                    Horrumheb"-and he was a general who became pharoah for about 24
                                                                    years.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Off subject? Consider that the ancient Egyptians were two-thirds
                                                                    of the way to inventing the railroad as they built the Great Pyramid
                                                                    at Giza (Khufu's pyramid.) Egyptologists found "ties" embedded in a
                                                                    resin-coated surfaces that topped the ramps they used-and those
                                                                    ancient folk even invented switch turn-out ties. Very close...very
                                                                    close...
                                                                    >
                                                                    > John
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2377 From: Don RIley Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
                                                                    Hi,

                                                                    Glad it is going well!

                                                                    BTW your site link does not work.
                                                                    Also 16 point? I got a bit of vision problem myself and only need 12.
                                                                    The settings for your computer are very setable. You might want to
                                                                    reset it.

                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <maobuch@...> wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > As for me since I live so far away from both Amarillo, Texas as
                                                                    well as the OKC area. I seem to do most of my hobby supply ordering
                                                                    as well online. Other than using Walthers for my main hobby shop, it
                                                                    is one of the online ones that I have found and have found Hobby Time
                                                                    that is in Amarillo. But we do have a very nice train only hobby
                                                                    shop that I do try to spend time and monry at, which is in the OKC
                                                                    area.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > So far I have been very lucky not to have any or any major problems
                                                                    with any one of the three that I now am using to get what I may need
                                                                    for the hobby and layout.
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                    > PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                    > See what you are saying to me !!!
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2378 From: sean naylor Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
                                                                    Hey Don,
                                                                    A couple of things...
                                                                     
                                                                    I am actually glad to see I am not the youngest!
                                                                     
                                                                    I just sold the second athearn pacific steam engine I have ever seen up close for $75+ 330072471683, I never knew it would go that high... I was hoping for $36 since it was a kit, but it was mising one pipe. They are pretty rare. Even more rare to come my way is the only Athearn Little Monster 0-4-0, which I have not decided to do with yet. It is a complete kit in the box as well, but it is missing the box cover... This is the first one I have ever seen up close... 
                                                                     
                                                                    I am always looking for Athearn or Lionel Rectifiers. I think I have 4 or 6 of them now.. I just traded a newly found friend and member of this group a Bachmann climax (new in the box) and some brass detail pieces of his choosing for an american flyer 0-6-0 smoke unit, a New Haven Box car, a Central Valley Valve gear Kit and a Lionel Rectifier (Missing two steps). The road I "Run" is New Haven, which actually had those engines. I put "Run" in quotes, because I have not had a layout in 18 years. Having two moster todlers and a two bedroom house, I do not have the space for one now.
                                                                     
                                                                    As for the marx set... Sold it for $50 when I was 15 to a guy who had an ad in the MR. I never really liked the Marx Set. It never ran good and always required cleaning. Besides it looked too toy like for me... I probably purchased mor New Haven equipment with it. As for the Athearn F7s... I do not think the engines made it... I beat the hell out of them. I had a straight stretch on my layout that I would go full throttle on. It ended in a 18" rad curve... Once, as my vintage New haven White F7 engine pair hit the wall at the other end, I clocked it at 260 miles per hour (scale speed). I think I sold them as "Junk" two years ago, but immediatly replaced them with exactly the same engine (but mint) ..several times over, maybe - probably out of gilt, now I have a boot box full of the white New Haven F7s.
                                                                     
                                                                    I also have a box full of athearn silver passenger car... I plan to make a matched set of the New Haven Budd Roger Williams. I made one off of photos, before I found plans. I plan to start over now.
                                                                     
                                                                    I still have all the cast metal details and people though.
                                                                     
                                                                    Later! Sean

                                                                    Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                    Hi Sean,

                                                                    I am only 25 so I am younger then you. But I am into all eras of
                                                                    Athearn and MDC. Still trying to catch an Athearn orginal Steamer in
                                                                    good shape. Also looking for an Athearn Rectifyer! I have an
                                                                    assortment of Athearns. Most interesting being a Carnation passenger
                                                                    car set. It was a neat mail order thing. One would order um one at a
                                                                    time. I got um on ebay a year or two ago. All silver. F7s and
                                                                    passenger cars. And I have an assortment of freight cars. all eras.
                                                                    Along with assorted engines. Including an AB of band powered Daylight
                                                                    Fs and an SP RDC1. Yes the SP one was a special. But it is way cool!!

                                                                    Neat that your set was EXSTRA full!!! I am guessing you stil have
                                                                    them all?

                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                                                    wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > I am 36 years old and I am sure i am young compared to many, if not
                                                                    > all in the discussion group. Please be paitient with my preface, I
                                                                    > will eventually get to my point...
                                                                    > I started collecting when I was 13 or 14 and I went to a house
                                                                    > auction on the south side of Pittsburgh, PA. I just missed the sale
                                                                    > of an old Marx New haven Diesel set which was almost complete; It
                                                                    was
                                                                    > missing the flat car load. My dad told me to offer the "winner" $20
                                                                    > for the set, so I did and he said yes. I oppened the box to find my
                                                                    > first ever set in mint shape. I sat in the car on the way home and
                                                                    > took out each piece to look at it, when I did, I went to move the
                                                                    box
                                                                    > out of the way, but it was still heavy. I lifted out the insert and
                                                                    > found a White Athearn New Haven F7 a & b set and a bunch of other
                                                                    > llose painted lead details and people. Since then, I have been
                                                                    > modeling the New Haven RR. I never had enough money to buy the
                                                                    items
                                                                    > I liked. The stuff that sold cheap, was cheap. (To a kid with NO
                                                                    > budget, a $10 car purchase was out of my league.) About 8 years ago
                                                                    I
                                                                    > started learning to use the computer. Soon after that I discovered
                                                                    > eBay. I would allow myself the occasional purchase when I first
                                                                    > started with it 7 years ago. I went back to school in 1998 to earn
                                                                    my
                                                                    > engineering degere, so again, I had no money. About 2.5 years ago,
                                                                    I
                                                                    > decided to sell off a box of what I considered to be junk. I did ir
                                                                    > by selling it one ot two pieces at a time... Low and behold, I made
                                                                    > $500 on my junk! From that, I purchased more. At that time, I was
                                                                    > taking a chance. I had maybe only one old diecast in my collection
                                                                    > and it was only a beat-up old mantua. Since then I have been buying
                                                                    > and selling only trains (with the occasional Mustang or Mustang
                                                                    > parts) to pay for my train and Mustang habbit. My wife refers to it
                                                                    > as my OCD sickness... Most of what I have learned about the vintage
                                                                    > trains, I have done so in the past two years from learnin about
                                                                    what
                                                                    > I have been buying and selling. I promise to never try to sell
                                                                    > anything here, because I do not believe it is the right place. I
                                                                    have
                                                                    > all my collecting life searched for a means to aquire the items I
                                                                    > liked and information about the items I have see, or have. FINALLY,
                                                                    > MY POINT!...
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Until a couple of weeks ago, I had never thought of joining a
                                                                    > discussion group.. I am so happy I did! Most of my train collecting
                                                                    > hobby life has been isolated and not able to be shared with anyone
                                                                    > else who gave a darn about them. It might be wierd, but at times, I
                                                                    > actually become very excited over a certain purchase. Sometimes, I
                                                                    > even lose sleep over it. Take for instance the Red Ball crane I
                                                                    > picked up last week or the (what I believe to be, but not yet group
                                                                    > confirmed) Early Penn Line Mini Diesel. Normally, I would either
                                                                    > never find out (which rarely happens because I am too stubborn) or
                                                                    it
                                                                    > takes so long, I forget that I was looking for info on it. With
                                                                    this
                                                                    > group, so much info has been opened up to me, as well as the chance
                                                                    > to connect with other individuals who feel the same about their
                                                                    > trains as I do. I just wanted to say thanks. I hope I never offend
                                                                    > anyone and I hope someday I can return the favor.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Thanks,
                                                                    > Sean



                                                                    Get your own web address.
                                                                    Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2379 From: sean naylor Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
                                                                    Hey Don,
                                                                     
                                                                    Remove the ",html" in your address bar.
                                                                     
                                                                    It will work then...
                                                                     
                                                                    http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train
                                                                     
                                                                    Sean

                                                                    Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                    Hi,

                                                                    Glad it is going well!

                                                                    BTW your site link does not work.
                                                                    Also 16 point? I got a bit of vision problem myself and only need 12.
                                                                    The settings for your computer are very setable. You might want to
                                                                    reset it.

                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, <maobuch@... > wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > As for me since I live so far away from both Amarillo, Texas as
                                                                    well as the OKC area. I seem to do most of my hobby supply ordering
                                                                    as well online. Other than using Walthers for my main hobby shop, it
                                                                    is one of the online ones that I have found and have found Hobby Time
                                                                    that is in Amarillo. But we do have a very nice train only hobby
                                                                    shop that I do try to spend time and monry at, which is in the OKC
                                                                    area.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > So far I have been very lucky not to have any or any major problems
                                                                    with any one of the three that I now am using to get what I may need
                                                                    for the hobby and layout.
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                    > http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html
                                                                    > PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                    > See what you are saying to me !!!



                                                                    Get your own web address.
                                                                    Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2380 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II
                                                                    If you're using outlook express, click on "Tools" then click on "options"
                                                                    then click on "compose" and you can choose the font and type size that your
                                                                    messages will be sent and displayed in. That SHOULD make all the mails show
                                                                    up in the size you like.

                                                                    Don

                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                    Co-moderator
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 5:17 AM
                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Doing Mail Order Business...Part II


                                                                    > Hi,
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Glad it is going well!
                                                                    >
                                                                    > BTW your site link does not work.
                                                                    > Also 16 point? I got a bit of vision problem myself and only need 12.
                                                                    > The settings for your computer are very setable. You might want to
                                                                    > reset it.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Steamengine4449
                                                                    >
                                                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <maobuch@...> wrote:
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> As for me since I live so far away from both Amarillo, Texas as
                                                                    > well as the OKC area. I seem to do most of my hobby supply ordering
                                                                    > as well online. Other than using Walthers for my main hobby shop, it
                                                                    > is one of the online ones that I have found and have found Hobby Time
                                                                    > that is in Amarillo. But we do have a very nice train only hobby
                                                                    > shop that I do try to spend time and monry at, which is in the OKC
                                                                    > area.
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> So far I have been very lucky not to have any or any major problems
                                                                    > with any one of the three that I now am using to get what I may need
                                                                    > for the hobby and layout.
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                    >> http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                    >> PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                    >> See what you are saying to me !!!
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2381 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:08 AM
                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!


                                                                    > So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel
                                                                    > boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds
                                                                    > with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was
                                                                    > truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the
                                                                    > ad.
                                                                    > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%
                                                                    > 3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Steamengine4449

                                                                    It was the Lionel name. Ca. 1958-1960 or so Lionel HO WAS made by Athearn.

                                                                    You could also get Athearn at various times in boxes labled Herkimer, Cox
                                                                    and even ATLAS.

                                                                    Don

                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                    Co-moderator
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2382 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                    Here's what you get when you click on the supplied link:

                                                                    This listing () has been removed or is no longer available. Please make sure
                                                                    you entered the right item number.

                                                                    Loren

                                                                    _________________________________________________________________
                                                                    Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into
                                                                    something more.
                                                                    http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2383 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                    The link arrived broken, on two lines, it would not work. If you want to see the auction, you can go to ebay.com and enter  120077476700 as a search and the item should come up that way.
                                                                     
                                                                    Wobbly913

                                                                    Salt&Pepper Whoknows <saltnpepper69@...> wrote:
                                                                    Here's what you get when you click on the supplied link:

                                                                    This listing () has been removed or is no longer available. Please make sure
                                                                    you entered the right item number.

                                                                    Loren

                                                                    _________________________________________________________________
                                                                    Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into
                                                                    something more.
                                                                    http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG




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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2384 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                    Don Riley
                                                                     
                                                                    I collect those Athearn New Haven Snowv Birds.  I have three ABA sets of them, all HiF plus one that is a gear drive.  I am also trying to put together a set of coaches. So when I saw the auction for the still in their boxes Lionel Snow Birds I thought it would be my perfect opportunity to finish the collection as it not only had the engines but most of a passenger car set all in original Lionel boxes. I noted that the passenger cars were the old Athearn/Globe cars put together from individual sides, ends and roofs.
                                                                    I decided I would bid a maximum bid of $80.00 based on $10.00 for each of the 4 coaches plus $20.00 for each of the two HiF F7A's. I always bid during the last 20 to 30 seconds of the auction. I watched in amazement as they sold for that $405.00 .
                                                                     
                                                                    Wobbly913
                                                                     


                                                                    Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                    So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel
                                                                    boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds
                                                                    with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was
                                                                    truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the
                                                                    ad.
                                                                    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%
                                                                    3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1

                                                                    Steamengine4449




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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2385 From: pvande1@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                    Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                      Go to Ebay and drop this item number into the search box - 120077476700

                                                                      phil


                                                                      -------------- Original message ----------------------
                                                                      From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                                                                      > Here's what you get when you click on the supplied link:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > This listing () has been removed or is no longer available. Please make sure
                                                                      > you entered the right item number.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Loren
                                                                      >
                                                                      > _________________________________________________________________
                                                                      > Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into
                                                                      > something more.
                                                                      > http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gr
                                                                      > atitude&FORM=WLMTAG
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2386 From: wallagus Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?
                                                                      I have a diecast Mantua shark with a few broken steps. Does anyone
                                                                      know of a replacement (detail part) step that is a good match for the
                                                                      remaining cast steps?

                                                                      thanks,

                                                                      phil
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2387 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                      Hi Mike,
                                                                      I am guessing you are referring to the Pacer Canopy Glue, I pointed out. I
                                                                      haven't used it yet, but will take your word that it is not similar to
                                                                      Elmers. However, Scotty Mason, discusses its use in the DVD, "Building
                                                                      Craftsman Structure Kits". He uses it just like you would White Glue, on
                                                                      plaster, wood, everything. It even looks like White Glue...in the DVD
                                                                      anyway. The really nice part about it is that you can literally create
                                                                      window glass in smaller pane sizes without actually using glass or clear
                                                                      plastic. If you do need to use clear plastic, this is supposed to be the
                                                                      BEST stuff for gluing it.
                                                                      Now, what I REALLY want to know is, if they sell this at Michaels under a
                                                                      different name, that may be the way to go? Do you happen to know what it is
                                                                      called at Michaels?

                                                                      Vic Bitleris
                                                                      Raleigh, NC



                                                                      ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                      From: "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...>
                                                                      Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden
                                                                      kit...
                                                                      Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:21:46 -0500

                                                                      Vic:
                                                                      This is not similar to a white glue at all, not even in the same class,
                                                                      but
                                                                      you can get it at a Michael store under another name, and it is the same has
                                                                      what MircoScale has for doing windows, and that Testors has out for clear
                                                                      parts and windows, but it is not anywhere close to being the same has Elmers
                                                                      white glue or even the yellow glue you are talking about. Just wanted to
                                                                      clear that up.
                                                                      Mike Looney

                                                                      _________________________________________________________________
                                                                      Valentine�s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
                                                                      http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2388 From: John Barlow Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
                                                                      Dear Don,
                                                                       
                                                                      The source of my info was a BBC docudrama on the building of the pyramids. The
                                                                      ties were found, and the main transport of the stones were huge sleds with runners that were the rails. the ties were lubricated with oil fats and such to reduce any friction. "Ties" and "runners (rails of a sort)", but the wheel was not in that civilization's repetoire then. Hence, two-thirds of the way to railroading. The Hyksos immigrants to Egypt would bring horse-drawn chariots to that civilization-and a civil war not all that long later (another story.) The Egyptians made one major modification to the Hyksos war chariot design for speed and maneuverability that would find its use in later Greek and Roman designs...and that four feet and eight and a half inches between the railheads we enjoy seems to come from a standard Roman chariot gauge. Hmmm??? That was many centuries after the pyramids at Giza were built.
                                                                       
                                                                      If you look at something in the ancient New World, archeologists wonder if somebody did not have your "street car", but maybe for building reasons. One ancient South American
                                                                      stone city area has "parallel ruts" cut into the stone...with "switch turnouts". The "ruts" were said to be cut into the stone, not from long periods of erosion and wear. The parallel spacing suggests "gauge". I do not think this supported any ancient mass transit system.
                                                                       
                                                                      Primitive rail-like operations were found to result in these wonders of the world...not flying saucers and little gray men, ala Erik van Danniken. Applying existing technologies can result in some concepts being primitive forerunners of later developments. If I say America's "first AWACS" was a Union Army balloon with a crew of two officer/observers and an enlisted telegrapher...I cause a few eyes to open.  The C.S.S. Hunley, now at the Charleston (SC) Navy Yard, is a submarine...simple, primitive, and was lost because of its successful attack upon the U.S.S. Housitanic. All those German wolfpacks and  U.S./U.S.S.R.missile launching subs came much later. Mankind has to begin somewhere...that is his technological history. Mount a stone on a stick and today we have what? Need I say more?
                                                                       
                                                                      John

                                                                      Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                      That is all VERY interesting! ! I did not know they came that close to
                                                                      inventing Railroading. Makes me wonder how close they really got....
                                                                      IE rail and horse drawn cars I suppose...
                                                                      I have wondered how those HUGE pyramids were made.

                                                                      Steamengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Folks,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > An ancient army with its navy was pharoah's. Recruits all went
                                                                      through "boot", and the VHS tape I have (30 minutes long) would make
                                                                      Vets cringe with the similarities of things they did way back when
                                                                      at "Basic". Not changed much in 3,000 to 4,000 years, starting with
                                                                      haircuts. Upon completion, some got assigned to Nile transports as
                                                                      deck hands (the ancient Egyptians never had a deep-water navy...they
                                                                      had a defense pact with the Minoans who provided "blue water"
                                                                      defense.) One tomb they discovered near a small town was an ancient
                                                                      local boy who did good-seven gold necklaces (equivalent of today's
                                                                      Congressional Medal of Honor.) He was Crew Commander Ohkmos
                                                                      (Navy?)...he rose through the enlisted ranks and lived to retire at
                                                                      age 55 (very old in those days.) He got into some battles, starting
                                                                      with Avaris in the Nile Delta Region. I think he was Ancient
                                                                      Egypt's "Audie Murphy"-and an army brat to boot. His tomb walls'
                                                                      hieroglyphs tell the story of one career military man's
                                                                      > life-like his "201 file." Only one private rose to a higher rank-
                                                                      Horrumheb"-and he was a general who became pharoah for about 24
                                                                      years.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Off subject? Consider that the ancient Egyptians were two-thirds
                                                                      of the way to inventing the railroad as they built the Great Pyramid
                                                                      at Giza (Khufu's pyramid.) Egyptologists found "ties" embedded in a
                                                                      resin-coated surfaces that topped the ramps they used-and those
                                                                      ancient folk even invented switch turn-out ties. Very close...very
                                                                      close...
                                                                      >
                                                                      > John



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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2389 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Wheelsets
                                                                      Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now.
                                                                      A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he
                                                                      needed to set the CV.
                                                                      And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago
                                                                      (Central Valley), what do folks use now?

                                                                      TNX
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2390 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      Boy, they sure ARE having problems with group e-mails!
                                                                      I esent this middle of last week!
                                                                      Dave

                                                                      > Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now.
                                                                      > A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he
                                                                      > needed to set the CV.
                                                                      > And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago
                                                                      > (Central Valley), what do folks use now?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > TNX
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2391 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      I have had very good results using Proto 2000 wheelsets, but, after
                                                                      spending a fair amount on replacement sets for a dozen cars, I realize
                                                                      that I need some kind of bulk purchase arrangement for the remaining
                                                                      150+ cars with plastic wheels. Buying a dozen axles at a time just isn't
                                                                      going to cut it from a cost perspective - I need 500 axle sets! Any
                                                                      suggestions?

                                                                      Mike

                                                                      curmudgeon wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Boy, they sure ARE having problems with group e-mails!
                                                                      > I esent this middle of last week!
                                                                      > Dave
                                                                      >
                                                                      > > Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now.
                                                                      > > A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he
                                                                      > > needed to set the CV.
                                                                      > > And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago
                                                                      > > (Central Valley), what do folks use now?
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > TNX
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                      >
                                                                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                      > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.14/658 - Release Date: 1/29/2007 2:49 PM

                                                                      --
                                                                      Mike Sloane
                                                                      Allamuchy NJ
                                                                      <mikesloane@...>
                                                                      Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                      Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                      I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man.
                                                                      It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2392 From: John Barlow Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      Mike,
                                                                       
                                                                      Check the Walthers catalog and then write to the company of your choice to see what, if any, bulk purchase deal you can set up. It may work-it may not.
                                                                       
                                                                      John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                      Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote:
                                                                      I have had very good results using Proto 2000 wheelsets, but, after
                                                                      spending a fair amount on replacement sets for a dozen cars, I realize
                                                                      that I need some kind of bulk purchase arrangement for the remaining
                                                                      150+ cars with plastic wheels. Buying a dozen axles at a time just isn't
                                                                      going to cut it from a cost perspective - I need 500 axle sets! Any
                                                                      suggestions?

                                                                      Mike

                                                                      curmudgeon wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Boy, they sure ARE having problems with group e-mails!
                                                                      > I esent this middle of last week!
                                                                      > Dave
                                                                      >
                                                                      > > Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now.
                                                                      > > A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he
                                                                      > > needed to set the CV.
                                                                      > > And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago
                                                                      > > (Central Valley), what do folks use now?
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > TNX
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                                      >
                                                                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                      > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.14/658 - Release Date: 1/29/2007 2:49 PM

                                                                      --
                                                                      Mike Sloane
                                                                      Allamuchy NJ
                                                                      <mikesloane@verizon. net>
                                                                      Website: <www.geocities. com/mikesloane>
                                                                      Images: <www.fotki.com/ mikesloane>

                                                                      I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man.
                                                                      It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)


                                                                      Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2393 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep
                                                                      Definitely--particularly the stuff from Badger. At one time I proposed a contest at PCR--actually two.  Accuflex, throw for distance, and throw for accuracy.  I actually had some solidify in factory sealed bottles. Floquil Forever!
                                                                       
                                                                      One thing I learned to keep handy when I had to use acrylics--an airbrush jar full of soapy water--when (not if) the paint job developed runs and sags it was immediately put on the brush and the offending paint coat flushed off. 
                                                                       
                                                                      I have been able to paint most plastics with Floquil without crazing.  Only exception--fifties Lionel F3 shells--I swear that those wrinkled up when set next to a sealed bottle of Floquil. gj
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      From: John Hagen
                                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:45 PM
                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: wooden passenger cars-LaBelle-finish prep

                                                                      You bring up a valid point, especially with the modern acrylic water-based paints in use today. They are really a major advancement in painting. No solvents, non-flammable, fast drying, air-brush clogging, impossible to get a smooth 2nd coat with, gloss beads up and ruins the entire paint job, drives ME NUTS, I HATE USING THE GOOEY CRAP!!!

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@.. .> wrote:

                                                                      >  

                                                                      > I have switched to things like Scotch Brite* instead of steel wool in my etching plant/studio/ factory and it doea the job well. Steel wool has an annoying habit of rusting. Maybe not as quickly in the hobby room, but your may nevertheless have bits of steel and/or rust influencing your paintwork. Substitues may often be had in the "dollar" stores, too.

                                                                      >   

                                                                      >   My 2 cents' worth...

                                                                      >   

                                                                      >   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                      >

                                                                      > Garrett and Libby Rea <glmp1995@...> wrote:

                                                                      >   Steel wool works wonders.

                                                                      >

                                                                      > Garrett

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2394 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                      A caution--a building inspector friend told me that PVC pipe is NOT allowed for compressed air--use iron.
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:53 PM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...

                                                                      Thanks Don,
                                                                      I may just stick to my original plan and run an airline down to the basement from the compressor in the attached toy box, oops make that GARAGE..  <VBG> I'll put a regulator and traps on it too of course.. <G>
                                                                      Dave S. (Cheapskate in training).

                                                                      Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                                      ----- Original Message ----- 
                                                                      From: Dave Slater
                                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:40 PM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden 
                                                                      kit...
                                                                          
                                                                      
                                                                      
                                                                        
                                                                      Don,
                                                                      Would you recommend using a small "storage" tank with a compressor like 
                                                                      that to prevent "surges"???
                                                                      Dave S.
                                                                          
                                                                      Badger claims you don't need it being a diaphragm unit. I did get a tank 
                                                                      (actually an old truck air brake resevoir from work), and a regulator and it 
                                                                      does help, even if for no other reason than to charge up the tank and not 
                                                                      make a lot of noise while you're painting.
                                                                      
                                                                      The only down size is these things only put out about 30-35 PSI, fine for 
                                                                      solvent paint, but maybe a little light for acrylics.
                                                                      
                                                                      Don
                                                                      
                                                                      don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                      http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                      Owner-Moderator
                                                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2395 From: jay matz Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      I have gone to Life-Like Proto 200.
                                                                      Get the reamer to do the sideframes,Micro-Mark sells them.
                                                                      Jay

                                                                      curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:




                                                                      8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                                                                      with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2396 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden &
                                                                      At this time it's not worth pursuing--I just don't buy their kits. Besides, there are better car kits available now--back then, they were fairly good with a lot of Grandt parts added.
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:48 AM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                      Glenn,
                                                                       
                                                                      I don't know what to say, but if the new ownership inherited any of its past indebtedness- you may be part of that and should bellow at them-if you have documentation of purchase or money sent. I have a hunch you did business with them out of Rockhill Furnace...I have no idea what they were like or what the new group is like out of Lewistown. Cannot hurt to touch base.
                                                                       
                                                                      John

                                                                      Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                      I kept getting "delaying" responses--then the company was sold--
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      From: Wobbly913
                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:31 PM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                      That sounds like one of those times that "proof of delivery" would have been worth while.
                                                                       
                                                                      Wobbly913

                                                                      John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                      Dear Glenn,
                                                                       
                                                                      I have never done direct mail order business with Ye Olde Huff n' Puff, and I respect your issue with them from whenever. i am pursuing a supposedly unreceived $27.00 money order by a firm with whom I have done business for over two years...and I think I may uncover from the money order source something that may prove disheartening. The issue is, when you send some money by mail and an order isn't honored-you can go the P.O. route and then things may well get nasty...mail fraud. That's why I never use credit cards and only use money orders...and a bank's cashier's check in one recent instance. I play hardball with what becomes all-too-clearly a "gypster operation".
                                                                       
                                                                      John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com0

                                                                      Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                      Haven't gone near them since they took over Main Line Models, and screwed me out of over $100 in kits on order--at the prices then--gj
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:54 AM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff Still There (was re: How rare are wooden & metal kits?)

                                                                      Dear Don and Group,
                                                                       
                                                                      Yes, I checked their website, and Ye Olde Huff n' Puff is/are still there-well-now in Lewistown, Pa, or with a P.O. Box there. I encourage all to look at their website via www.yeoldehuffnpuff .com. Their "divisions" now include Silver Streak Models, main Line Models, Sugar Pine Models, AC Models, and LW Models.
                                                                       
                                                                      John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                      Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                      You mention "Ye olde huff 'n' puff", not sure if they're still around, but they also made all the old "silver streak" kits, as well as kits originally made by "LW Models" and "Arden" in the 1950's - 60's.
                                                                       
                                                                      To get back to Maryann's question, around here at least, most 'swap meets" have pretty much degenerated into dealer shows.  I prefer eBay, and I've found that the going rate for unbuilt kits, unless they're unusaully rare, is around $10.00 each.  The most I've paid is $18.00 for my Thomas wine car, although I've seen those go for as much as $40.  The price and demand for these actually seems to be going DOWN, as there are fewer and fewer "modellers" out there who are willing or desirious of spending the time and effort to build them, and they haven't caught the "collector"; s eye yet like the Fine Scale Miniatures (George Sellios) structure kits have.  Those I'd guess there's more unbuilt ones out there than built.
                                                                       
                                                                      Occasionaly you'll see someone with more money that brains out there fall for the "old rare obscure" gag and pay a rediculu=ous price, but there are actually more of these kits out there than you'd think.  As far as built or rebuildable ones (like the box I've been working out of the last couple weeks), there's more and more of these coming out on the market every week as the older modellers die off and their heirs think they're going to get rich on "grampa's trains" (they aren't).
                                                                       
                                                                      Don
                                                                       
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:53 AM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] How rare are wooden & metal kits?

                                                                      Dear Maryann,
                                                                       
                                                                      To answer your question, I can only say from my experiences that it depends what you are looking for and where you look. I may incur some other site member's wrath, but I don't look on eBay. This is not to say you won't find some there, but long before there was an eBay the most likely spot was a train show or model railroad swap meet right near where you live.
                                                                       
                                                                      Do not kid yourself, there are some people who make a living, if not primary, going from one of these to another all over a region or around the country. With that in mind, you will find some on the periphery of the big shows, like the NMRA annual convention, wherever it is being held whenever (I think Detroit is the 2007 site.) You would be surprised at what you may find-and on occasions it is reasonable to cheap. You may nail a rare fish because the seller is not really aware of what they have...like my Oregon & Northwestern forty-foot box from the 1960's (early) which (and you won't believe this) has a silver paint vial for painting the ends that is still very liquid and fresh. Was there such a railroad once-the O&NW? I found out on the Internet that there was, with photos of its former right-of-way. I bought it for maybe $10.00 (or less) here 20 years ago at a small meet in a suburb of Denver.
                                                                       
                                                                      Are there still wooden kit makers? A few! One is LaBelle's Woodworking Company out of Cheyenne, Wyoming (E-Mail is info@labellemodels. com). The kits are wood-they are not modern prototype-and they are great. You add the trucks and couplers, be it standard gauge or narrow gauge. I think they provide dry transfers vis-a-vis decals. For a look at their products, try www.labellemodels. com. The line has been around since the Sixties, and the one kit I wish they had continued was the HOn3 East Broad Top wood caboose. So it goes.
                                                                      (Yes, they mail order.) So- they are providing a continuation of the wooden kit into the 21st Century, noting their motto: "Nothing is as good as wood."
                                                                       
                                                                      Another old wooden kit source (meaning, these kits have not changed in decades) is Ye Old Huff and Puff at www.yeoldhuffnandpu ff.com. They are a carry over from at least one old line-Mainline Models-whose boxart they still use. The have pre-painted/ printed wooden sides and some metal parts...carrying on from kits of old that have been made for years. You won't find them in most upscale, big-time hobby shops because the present clientel is into plastic RTR with details and no sweat.
                                                                       
                                                                      One other source-try the Model Railroad Warehouse (Roanoke, Indiana) at www.mrrwarehouse. com. Seriously-some of their kits go way back out... of wood and metal.
                                                                       
                                                                      I'm reminded in all of this of the dear old lady (since deceased I think) who, as a younger woman, bought a strange-looking dead fish from a South African trawler in 1939. That fish set the scientific world, especially palentology, on its ear. You see, the species was supposedly extinct for hundreds of millions of years-according to those in learned circles. Somebody did not tell the species that, which even today flourishes below a depth of 300 feet all the way from Africa to Indonesia across the Indian Ocean. Surprisingly, not all those "oldies" are that old...they're still being made today.
                                                                       
                                                                      John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       


                                                                      "Maryann \"Arti\" Obuch" <maobuch@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                      I would like to know how rare are some of the older railcar kits that
                                                                      was made back in the 60's for I have came across a box of 24 metal and
                                                                      wooden HO scale vintage kits? For I have several kinds and in general
                                                                      what are they worth since most are NIB and have yet been build?

                                                                      If anyone has any ideas as to my questions would you please respond to
                                                                      this group.

                                                                      Yours Truly, Maryann…
                                                                      DU and OA Railway Company
                                                                      http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train.html

                                                                      PS: I have listed a text file in the Files as to the list of what I
                                                                      have. See that file for more INFO...



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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2397 From: jay matz Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      Mike
                                                                      I went to my local hobby dealer , ask him for a price on bulk wheelsets he gave me a great price. I bought 250 sets.
                                                                      Jay

                                                                      Mi




                                                                      Don't pick lemons.
                                                                      See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2398 From: John Barlow Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost
                                                                      Disparage not. You will find a replacement. Besides, you should see the looks I get from Denverites (CO) when I tell them the old D&RGW was into serious negotiations decades ago to acquire a GG1 from the PRR for test purposes here in Colorado. Electrifying the "Moffat Line" through the Tuneel? Yep! Now picture a GG1 in silver-yellow-black. For many it boggles the mind.
                                                                       
                                                                      John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                      Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                      Yeah I hear you there!
                                                                      I have been happy with most of mine too. The worst was an IHC GG1. It
                                                                      looked great in the pic but the one I got was smashed at BOTH ends!
                                                                      That really REALLY bummed me out! I still have not gotten a
                                                                      replacement. Do not think of it most of the time. BTW yes I am a GG1
                                                                      fan even though it is a bit out of my line. My main RR is Southern
                                                                      Pacific. Second is CNW. My concept RR has them interchanging with a
                                                                      yard. Yes I like switchyards. Sadly I do not have room right now for
                                                                      it. So I have a small layout. But still GG1s are soo cool!

                                                                      I have never bought one with no picture. I have rarely even seen one
                                                                      with no picture.

                                                                      Stemaengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I must agree with everything you said John. For me, it is bid onece,
                                                                      bid the max I am willing to pay and bid within the last 7 seconds... If
                                                                      I get it, great! If no, move on... If it goes over my max, I do not
                                                                      bid! I have had a couple thousand transactions and I can count on one
                                                                      hand the number I have been truely unhappy with...
                                                                      > One more hint...
                                                                      > Really look at the picture... If the seller does not have a picture
                                                                      in the listing, but he has pictures in other listings... Really
                                                                      question what it is he/she is selling... I learned that one...
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Sean



                                                                      Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                                                                      in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel
                                                                      to find your fit.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2399 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)
                                                                      my problem is I hit the dam "Caps Lock" key and get a line farther before I catch it.  doesn't seem to be a way to correct it--short of deleting and retyping.
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      From: John Hagen
                                                                      Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:18 PM
                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Danged "control" button (off-topic but...)

                                                                      Gee, fred, I thought it was only us old guys that had that problem.
                                                                      Heck you're, lets see now, 4 years my junior so....

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@. ..> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > John, it happens to me all the time. Wish I could move that button
                                                                      easily. Too many times I touch it lightly when trying to type "S"
                                                                      instead of "s" and send the darned e-mail without finishing it.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > John Hagen <sprinthag@. ..> wrote: Boy I hate it when I press
                                                                      the "ctrl" key instead of the "shift" key.
                                                                      > The message was supposed to read "Might, I'll let you know. Thanks"
                                                                      >
                                                                      > John Hagen

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2400 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      I watch for When Walthers has the Intermountains on sale, a hundred
                                                                      wheelsets for $50.

                                                                      Don

                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                      Owner-Moderator
                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                      Co-moderator
                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...>
                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                      Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 5:42 PM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Wheelsets


                                                                      >I have had very good results using Proto 2000 wheelsets, but, after
                                                                      > spending a fair amount on replacement sets for a dozen cars, I realize
                                                                      > that I need some kind of bulk purchase arrangement for the remaining
                                                                      > 150+ cars with plastic wheels. Buying a dozen axles at a time just isn't
                                                                      > going to cut it from a cost perspective - I need 500 axle sets! Any
                                                                      > suggestions?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Mike
                                                                      >
                                                                      > curmudgeon wrote:
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >> Boy, they sure ARE having problems with group e-mails!
                                                                      >> I esent this middle of last week!
                                                                      >> Dave
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >> > Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now.
                                                                      >> > A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he
                                                                      >> > needed to set the CV.
                                                                      >> > And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago
                                                                      >> > (Central Valley), what do folks use now?
                                                                      >> >
                                                                      >> > TNX
                                                                      >> >
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >> No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                                      >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                      >> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.14/658 - Release Date:
                                                                      >> 1/29/2007 2:49 PM
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --
                                                                      > Mike Sloane
                                                                      > Allamuchy NJ
                                                                      > <mikesloane@...>
                                                                      > Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                      > Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man.
                                                                      > It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2401 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      I've put Kadee wheels in CV sideframes and come up with a truck that rolled
                                                                      better than the CV's did originally.

                                                                      Intermountains and P2K wheels also work well. The only place Intermountains
                                                                      have given me trouble is in sprung Varney sideframes, but there the Kadees
                                                                      seemed to do fine.

                                                                      Don

                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                      Owner-Moderator
                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                      Co-moderator
                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY


                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                      Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 2:28 PM
                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Wheelsets


                                                                      > Okay, I haven't done anything with H0 for 37 years until now.
                                                                      > A question came up on another forum about a wobbly car, I said he
                                                                      > needed to set the CV.
                                                                      > And, since the CV in question quit making wheelsets 20 years ago
                                                                      > (Central Valley), what do folks use now?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > TNX
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2402 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      hmm. I was very careful, even typing vertically, and it sent by
                                                                      iteslf. Anyway, I know about reamers, done that with straight
                                                                      journals. There is a reamer for needle point bearings?
                                                                      Dave


                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have gone to Life-Like Proto 200.
                                                                      > Get the reamer to do the sideframes,Micro-Mark sells them.
                                                                      > Jay
                                                                      >
                                                                      > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                      > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                                                                      > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2403 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      recently somebody had an Athearn SD-45 with a$1500 starting bid----claimed "rare"--
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      From: Wobbly913
                                                                      Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 8:09 AM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

                                                                      Don Riley
                                                                       
                                                                      I collect those Athearn New Haven Snowv Birds.  I have three ABA sets of them, all HiF plus one that is a gear drive.  I am also trying to put together a set of coaches. So when I saw the auction for the still in their boxes Lionel Snow Birds I thought it would be my perfect opportunity to finish the collection as it not only had the engines but most of a passenger car set all in original Lionel boxes. I noted that the passenger cars were the old Athearn/Globe cars put together from individual sides, ends and roofs.
                                                                      I decided I would bid a maximum bid of $80.00 based on $10.00 for each of the 4 coaches plus $20.00 for each of the two HiF F7A's. I always bid during the last 20 to 30 seconds of the auction. I watched in amazement as they sold for that $405.00 .
                                                                       
                                                                      Wobbly913
                                                                       


                                                                      Don RIley <steamengine4449us@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                      So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel
                                                                      boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds
                                                                      with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was
                                                                      truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the
                                                                      ad.
                                                                      http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%
                                                                      3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1

                                                                      Steamengine4449




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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2404 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost
                                                                      One book--I think "Rio Grande--To the Pacific!" had something on the electrification proposal--locos shown looked like the big Virginian cab units--or "single-ended" GN W-1's in pairs.
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:21 PM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost

                                                                      Disparage not. You will find a replacement. Besides, you should see the looks I get from Denverites (CO) when I tell them the old D&RGW was into serious negotiations decades ago to acquire a GG1 from the PRR for test purposes here in Colorado. Electrifying the "Moffat Line" through the Tuneel? Yep! Now picture a GG1 in silver-yellow- black. For many it boggles the mind.
                                                                       
                                                                      John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                      Don RIley <steamengine4449us@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                      Yeah I hear you there!
                                                                      I have been happy with most of mine too. The worst was an IHC GG1. It
                                                                      looked great in the pic but the one I got was smashed at BOTH ends!
                                                                      That really REALLY bummed me out! I still have not gotten a
                                                                      replacement. Do not think of it most of the time. BTW yes I am a GG1
                                                                      fan even though it is a bit out of my line. My main RR is Southern
                                                                      Pacific. Second is CNW. My concept RR has them interchanging with a
                                                                      yard. Yes I like switchyards. Sadly I do not have room right now for
                                                                      it. So I have a small layout. But still GG1s are soo cool!

                                                                      I have never bought one with no picture. I have rarely even seen one
                                                                      with no picture.

                                                                      Stemaengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I must agree with everything you said John. For me, it is bid onece,
                                                                      bid the max I am willing to pay and bid within the last 7 seconds... If
                                                                      I get it, great! If no, move on... If it goes over my max, I do not
                                                                      bid! I have had a couple thousand transactions and I can count on one
                                                                      hand the number I have been truely unhappy with...
                                                                      > One more hint...
                                                                      > Really look at the picture... If the seller does not have a picture
                                                                      in the listing, but he has pictures in other listings... Really
                                                                      question what it is he/she is selling... I learned that one...
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Sean



                                                                      Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                                                                      in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel
                                                                      to find your fit.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2405 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                      Victor:
                                                                      I think the name they have at Michael's is called Gallery Glass, it should
                                                                      be in the dollhouse section, for making stain glass for small windows. Now
                                                                      it come in many colors, plus if I remember right you can get the green
                                                                      metallic for use on telephone poles to give that look of a insulator on top
                                                                      of the telephone pole
                                                                      Mike Looney
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2406 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?
                                                                      Check the Bowser website. I believe that Cal Scale makes a replacement for
                                                                      this.

                                                                      Vic Bitleris
                                                                      Raleigh, NC



                                                                      ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                      From: "wallagus" <pvande1@...>
                                                                      Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?
                                                                      Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:54:22 -0000

                                                                      I have a diecast Mantua shark with a few broken steps. Does anyone
                                                                      know of a replacement (detail part) step that is a good match for the
                                                                      remaining cast steps?

                                                                      thanks,

                                                                      phil

                                                                      _________________________________________________________________
                                                                      FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo � buy and sell with people
                                                                      you know
                                                                      http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com?s_cid=Hotmail_tagline_12/06
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2407 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for steps?
                                                                      190-148 is one
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Check the Bowser website. I believe that Cal Scale makes a
                                                                      replacement for
                                                                      > this.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Vic Bitleris
                                                                      > Raleigh, NC
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                      > From: "wallagus" <pvande1@...>
                                                                      > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      > Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua RF-16 Sharks (diecast) - source for
                                                                      steps?
                                                                      > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:54:22 -0000
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have a diecast Mantua shark with a few broken steps. Does anyone
                                                                      > know of a replacement (detail part) step that is a good match for
                                                                      the
                                                                      > remaining cast steps?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > thanks,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > phil
                                                                      >
                                                                      > _________________________________________________________________
                                                                      > FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo – buy and sell with
                                                                      people
                                                                      > you know
                                                                      > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?
                                                                      href=http://expo.live.com?s_cid=Hotmail_tagline_12/06
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2408 From: Randy Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
                                                                      The Heber Valley Railroad here in Utah also has an operational MRS-1.

                                                                      Randy Jones
                                                                      SLC UT
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2409 From: John Barlow Date: 1/29/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: MRS-1...a Click Away
                                                                      Noted on the Internet with photo of the Heber Valley.
                                                                       
                                                                      John

                                                                      Randy <rdj_smj@...> wrote:
                                                                      The Heber Valley Railroad here in Utah also has an operational MRS-1.

                                                                      Randy Jones
                                                                      SLC UT



                                                                      Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                                                                      in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel
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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2410 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
                                                                      lol!

                                                                      WOW!! I could not afford to pay that much. Sadly I resently missed
                                                                      the opertunity to get a Pacific. It went for like 35 on ebay. Real
                                                                      bummer. But I am kinda broke anyway. I see the monsters now and then.
                                                                      Saw one of those go resently too. Athearn made yet another yard
                                                                      engine. An 0-6-0 do not see them as much. Was even offered lettered
                                                                      for Southern Pacific! It woudl be way cool to have one of them. The
                                                                      Pacific did not come lettered for SP. Though SP had LOTS of Pacifics.
                                                                      Infact the RR museum in volenteer with has one.

                                                                      I know what you mean about Marx. They are VERY toyish!

                                                                      Those band powered engines will FLY!! Yes we have all done it. I have
                                                                      a table layout with a figure 8 over and under. And even then I can
                                                                      make um fly. And yes I have done it! I too have a set of NH engines
                                                                      and I have flown um around the layout. I do not think they have ever
                                                                      gone off though. I have lost Hustlers over the side. Those things
                                                                      will REALLY fly!

                                                                      I know what you mean about lack of space. I too have little. Hope to
                                                                      get more on the next move. But that might be a while.

                                                                      Don
                                                                      aka STeamengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hey Don,
                                                                      > A couple of things...
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I am actually glad to see I am not the youngest!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I just sold the second athearn pacific steam engine I have ever
                                                                      seen up close for $75+ 330072471683, I never knew it would go that
                                                                      high... I was hoping for $36 since it was a kit, but it was mising
                                                                      one pipe. They are pretty rare. Even more rare to come my way is the
                                                                      only Athearn Little Monster 0-4-0, which I have not decided to do
                                                                      with yet. It is a complete kit in the box as well, but it is missing
                                                                      the box cover... This is the first one I have ever seen up close...
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I am always looking for Athearn or Lionel Rectifiers. I think I
                                                                      have 4 or 6 of them now.. I just traded a newly found friend and
                                                                      member of this group a Bachmann climax (new in the box) and some
                                                                      brass detail pieces of his choosing for an american flyer 0-6-0 smoke
                                                                      unit, a New Haven Box car, a Central Valley Valve gear Kit and a
                                                                      Lionel Rectifier (Missing two steps). The road I "Run" is New Haven,
                                                                      which actually had those engines. I put "Run" in quotes, because I
                                                                      have not had a layout in 18 years. Having two moster todlers and a
                                                                      two bedroom house, I do not have the space for one now.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > As for the marx set... Sold it for $50 when I was 15 to a guy who
                                                                      had an ad in the MR. I never really liked the Marx Set. It never ran
                                                                      good and always required cleaning. Besides it looked too toy like for
                                                                      me... I probably purchased mor New Haven equipment with it. As for
                                                                      the Athearn F7s... I do not think the engines made it... I beat the
                                                                      hell out of them. I had a straight stretch on my layout that I would
                                                                      go full throttle on. It ended in a 18" rad curve... Once, as my
                                                                      vintage New haven White F7 engine pair hit the wall at the other end,
                                                                      I clocked it at 260 miles per hour (scale speed). I think I sold them
                                                                      as "Junk" two years ago, but immediatly replaced them with exactly
                                                                      the same engine (but mint) ..several times over, maybe - probably out
                                                                      of gilt, now I have a boot box full of the white New Haven F7s.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I also have a box full of athearn silver passenger car... I plan
                                                                      to make a matched set of the New Haven Budd Roger Williams. I made
                                                                      one off of photos, before I found plans. I plan to start over now.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I still have all the cast metal details and people though.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Later! Sean
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2411 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      Yes I have looked into that. But still it was just Athearn. I ahve that
                                                                      train with Athearn NH whites and coaches. My coaches are newer and my
                                                                      engines have no boxes. So who knows where they came from.

                                                                      Herkimer cars are way cool! They only made passenger cars and one
                                                                      caboose. So all other stuff was Athearn.
                                                                      VERY interesting that Atlas used Athearn equipment at one time!!

                                                                      Steamengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      > It was the Lionel name. Ca. 1958-1960 or so Lionel HO WAS made by
                                                                      Athearn.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > You could also get Athearn at various times in boxes labled Herkimer,
                                                                      Cox
                                                                      > and even ATLAS.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Don
                                                                      >
                                                                      > don.dellmann@...
                                                                      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                      > Owner-Moderator
                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                      > Co-moderator
                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2412 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      WOW!! Man you got lots of those engines! Yeah it would have been a nice
                                                                      set at that rate. But man it flew!

                                                                      Don Riley

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Don Riley
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I collect those Athearn New Haven Snowv Birds. I have three ABA
                                                                      sets of them, all HiF plus one that is a gear drive. I am also trying
                                                                      to put together a set of coaches. So when I saw the auction for the
                                                                      still in their boxes Lionel Snow Birds I thought it would be my perfect
                                                                      opportunity to finish the collection as it not only had the engines but
                                                                      most of a passenger car set all in original Lionel boxes. I noted that
                                                                      the passenger cars were the old Athearn/Globe cars put together from
                                                                      individual sides, ends and roofs.
                                                                      > I decided I would bid a maximum bid of $80.00 based on $10.00 for
                                                                      each of the 4 coaches plus $20.00 for each of the two HiF F7A's. I
                                                                      always bid during the last 20 to 30 seconds of the auction. I watched
                                                                      in amazement as they sold for that $405.00 .
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Wobbly913
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2413 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Rails to the Ancient Skies
                                                                      John,

                                                                      Very interesting indeed!! Yes they were so close. I too have seen
                                                                      about the 4ft 8 1/2 inch thing. Amazing how that gauge lasted! And
                                                                      seemingly will for a LONG time to come!
                                                                      I had not realized the ruts were cute. I thought they came with age.
                                                                      Interesting indeed!

                                                                      Don
                                                                      aka Steamengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Dear Don,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > The source of my info was a BBC docudrama on the building of the
                                                                      pyramids. The
                                                                      > ties were found, and the main transport of the stones were huge
                                                                      sleds with runners that were the rails. the ties were lubricated with
                                                                      oil fats and such to reduce any friction. "Ties" and "runners (rails
                                                                      of a sort)", but the wheel was not in that civilization's repetoire
                                                                      then. Hence, two-thirds of the way to railroading. The Hyksos
                                                                      immigrants to Egypt would bring horse-drawn chariots to that
                                                                      civilization-and a civil war not all that long later (another story.)
                                                                      The Egyptians made one major modification to the Hyksos war chariot
                                                                      design for speed and maneuverability that would find its use in later
                                                                      Greek and Roman designs...and that four feet and eight and a half
                                                                      inches between the railheads we enjoy seems to come from a standard
                                                                      Roman chariot gauge. Hmmm??? That was many centuries after the
                                                                      pyramids at Giza were built.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > If you look at something in the ancient New World, archeologists
                                                                      wonder if somebody did not have your "street car", but maybe for
                                                                      building reasons. One ancient South American
                                                                      > stone city area has "parallel ruts" cut into the
                                                                      stone...with "switch turnouts". The "ruts" were said to be cut into
                                                                      the stone, not from long periods of erosion and wear. The parallel
                                                                      spacing suggests "gauge". I do not think this supported any ancient
                                                                      mass transit system.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Primitive rail-like operations were found to result in these
                                                                      wonders of the world...not flying saucers and little gray men, ala
                                                                      Erik van Danniken. Applying existing technologies can result in some
                                                                      concepts being primitive forerunners of later developments. If I say
                                                                      America's "first AWACS" was a Union Army balloon with a crew of two
                                                                      officer/observers and an enlisted telegrapher...I cause a few eyes to
                                                                      open. The C.S.S. Hunley, now at the Charleston (SC) Navy Yard, is a
                                                                      submarine...simple, primitive, and was lost because of its successful
                                                                      attack upon the U.S.S. Housitanic. All those German wolfpacks and
                                                                      U.S./U.S.S.R.missile launching subs came much later. Mankind has to
                                                                      begin somewhere...that is his technological history. Mount a stone on
                                                                      a stick and today we have what? Need I say more?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > John
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2414 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      I remember that! It was an old Santa Fe one. From purhapes the first
                                                                      run of SD45s. Yeah nothing rare there. Never could figure whey he did
                                                                      that.
                                                                      Others sold those SD45s for the regular going rate. Hell I almost
                                                                      bought one just for the hell of it!

                                                                      Steamengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > recently somebody had an Athearn SD-45 with a$1500 starting bid----
                                                                      claimed "rare"--
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2415 From: Don RIley Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Truth is Stranger Than Fiction...And Oddly Prototypical-Almost
                                                                      Yes I am sure I will.
                                                                      I have haerd tale of the electrifying. But never GG1s. And nothing came
                                                                      of the idea.

                                                                      Steamengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Disparage not. You will find a replacement. Besides, you should see
                                                                      the looks I get from Denverites (CO) when I tell them the old D&RGW was
                                                                      into serious negotiations decades ago to acquire a GG1 from the PRR for
                                                                      test purposes here in Colorado. Electrifying the "Moffat Line" through
                                                                      the Tuneel? Yep! Now picture a GG1 in silver-yellow-black. For many it
                                                                      boggles the mind.
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2416 From: John Barlow Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Fwd: [militaryrails] Re: Parallel Thinking in the Past..
                                                                      Dear Don,
                                                                       
                                                                      I don't think the D&RGW back when was "locked into" a GG1 but scrounging around for an electric to "play" with out here. The "parallel thinking" may be that, as one friend here suggested, they saw the Milwaukee Road and Great Northern (especially the latter) doing things with catenary in the Cascade Mountains around that time. Why not the Moffat Line too? 
                                                                       
                                                                      The PRR's  own electrification was planned to go all the way to Pittsburgh, but the Second World War was also looming and there were, as I understand, questions about electrifyng the Horseshoe Curve (I am not sure how much of an issue that really was.) To be certain, the GG1 and others were feared not to be up to the grades west of Harrisburg, but with traction motors I think they would have proven up to the task nicely.
                                                                       
                                                                      In a fossil fuel rich society, diesel technology came to the forefront as coal-fired locomotives were about to max-out. The electric locomotive lacked a key aspect-call it "maneuverability". It was/is leashed to the catenary-fine for main lines-not good for small branches and extended sidings. The diesel filled that gap nicely.
                                                                       
                                                                      Argueably, if the Northeast Corridor had not been built when it was, it would have never been built. The diesel's emergence, in a decade, would have brushed it aside...out of mind. The later application of nuclear power to supplying cheap electricity...I don't think it would have mattered either. The then early municipal environmental arguments lent themselves well to its being built...cities tired of steam locomotive pollution. The New York City Hudson River tunnels were another point, but third rail was in place there.
                                                                       
                                                                      The man I mentioned before had an unheralded role in the D&RGW's dieselization. Some might curse his memory for that, but he told me of his first diesel ride from Denver through the Moffat Tunnel to Salt Lake City on a F-3 (I think). The freight his train was hauling had four units, two A's and two B's. It was approaching the Rocky Flats area (site of the later nuclear bomb trigger plant-now closed) when he spied a smaller (in total consist) freight with a beautiful articulated steam loco on the front. It was taking on water at the tower there and sort of resting for the long climb up into the Rocky Mountains.
                                                                       
                                                                      "Shouldn't we be taking on water, too?" he asked the engineer.
                                                                       
                                                                      The man looked at his gauges and said: "No, Professor, these babies are doing just fine."
                                                                       
                                                                      He looked out the door of the diesel cab as it continued on, seeming to glide by the old steamer. He said he knew at that moment, the days of the D&RGW's steam locomotives were numbered...and his evaluation report would be part of it. It was not a joyful duty.
                                                                       
                                                                      John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       


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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2417 From: sean naylor Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      I HATE it when those idiots use the word rare! Some use it, dispite having little to no prior model train experience, because it is the first time they ever saw it. Most use it to describe every piece they sell. I think thay use it because they think it will help, and sometimes it does. There are so many idiots out that have no idea what they are buying, the they pay for it. I saw it used once on an Athearn F7.
                                                                      Sean

                                                                      Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                      I remember that! It was an old Santa Fe one. From purhapes the first
                                                                      run of SD45s. Yeah nothing rare there. Never could figure whey he did
                                                                      that.
                                                                      Others sold those SD45s for the regular going rate. Hell I almost
                                                                      bought one just for the hell of it!

                                                                      Steamengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@.. .> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > recently somebody had an Athearn SD-45 with a$1500 starting bid----
                                                                      claimed "rare"--



                                                                      Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2418 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing
                                                                      more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort. I only do
                                                                      a couple of cars at a time, so it doesn't get boring. While I am doing
                                                                      wheel sets, I take the time to "tune up" the trucks and their mounting
                                                                      to make sure they swivel easily and one of the pair is allowed to have
                                                                      some free lateral motion, while the other can only turn (not tip). I
                                                                      also check the Kaydee couplers for smooth motion, knuckle springs, etc.
                                                                      I haven't tried them yet, but it seems to me that some of the older
                                                                      Mantua trucks will not take the new axles, due to using very small
                                                                      diameter axles.

                                                                      For now, I am just putting a small Post-it "flag" on the top of each car
                                                                      to identify the ones that have been updated.

                                                                      Mike

                                                                      jay matz wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have gone to Life-Like Proto 200.
                                                                      > Get the reamer to do the sideframes,Micro-Mark sells them.
                                                                      > Jay
                                                                      >

                                                                      --
                                                                      Mike Sloane
                                                                      Allamuchy NJ
                                                                      <mikesloane@...>
                                                                      Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                      Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                      I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man.
                                                                      It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2419 From: rcjge Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I HATE it when those idiots use the word rare! Some use it, dispite
                                                                      having little to no prior model train experience, because it is the
                                                                      first time they ever saw it. Most use it to describe every piece they
                                                                      sell. I think thay use it because they think it will help, and
                                                                      sometimes it does. There are so many idiots out that have no idea what
                                                                      they are buying, the they pay for it. I saw it used once on an Athearn
                                                                      F7.
                                                                      > Sean

                                                                      On the other hand sometimes...
                                                                      I picked up an earlier U-28B in N&W paint for $17 that I'm pretty
                                                                      delighted with. Apparently not common, though I may be wrong. NIB. A
                                                                      ffriend on the Tyco Collectors forum who is a U-Boat freak is trying
                                                                      to pry it from my hands but its my token GE, being an Alco cultist!

                                                                      Cheers,
                                                                      Gareth
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2420 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      I believe the "reamer" is made only for plastic trucks and is not supposed
                                                                      to be used for metal trucks, like CV or Kadee. I am not sure where I read
                                                                      this, but I did.

                                                                      Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                      Raleigh, NC



                                                                      ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                      From: Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...>
                                                                      Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wheelsets
                                                                      Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:40:57 -0500

                                                                      I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing
                                                                      more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort. I only do
                                                                      a couple of cars at a time, so it doesn't get boring. While I am doing
                                                                      wheel sets, I take the time to "tune up" the trucks and their mounting
                                                                      to make sure they swivel easily and one of the pair is allowed to have
                                                                      some free lateral motion, while the other can only turn (not tip). I
                                                                      also check the Kaydee couplers for smooth motion, knuckle springs, etc.
                                                                      I haven't tried them yet, but it seems to me that some of the older
                                                                      Mantua trucks will not take the new axles, due to using very small
                                                                      diameter axles.

                                                                      For now, I am just putting a small Post-it "flag" on the top of each car
                                                                      to identify the ones that have been updated.

                                                                      Mike

                                                                      jay matz wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have gone to Life-Like Proto 200.
                                                                      > Get the reamer to do the sideframes,Micro-Mark sells them.
                                                                      > Jay
                                                                      >

                                                                      --
                                                                      Mike Sloane
                                                                      Allamuchy NJ
                                                                      <mikesloane@...>
                                                                      Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                      Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                      I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man.
                                                                      It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)

                                                                      _________________________________________________________________
                                                                      Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into
                                                                      something more.
                                                                      http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2421 From: jay matz Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      Vic
                                                                      I have used the reamer on plastic and metal sideframes.
                                                                      Branchline has wheelsets with different length axels, the sprung trucks use longer axels.
                                                                      Jay

                                                                      Vi

                                                                      .



                                                                      Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2422 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      Yep, I have to, but since I read somewhere that you should not, I gave up
                                                                      the practice......unless the metal sideframes REALLY need it. I will
                                                                      definitely keep that to a minimum. I think that what happens is the metal
                                                                      sideframes where down the cutting edge very quickly.

                                                                      Vic Bitleris
                                                                      Raleigh, NC



                                                                      ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                      From: jay matz <dlw455@...>
                                                                      Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wheelsets
                                                                      Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:01:33 -0800 (PST)

                                                                      Vic
                                                                      I have used the reamer on plastic and metal sideframes.
                                                                      Branchline has wheelsets with different length axels, the sprung trucks use
                                                                      longer axels.
                                                                      Jay

                                                                      Vi
                                                                      ..





                                                                      ---------------------------------
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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2423 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      now the "Athearn" I would consider "rare" might be an original pair of Globe F-7's, painted gold or silver, in the original boxes. 
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:41 AM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

                                                                      I HATE it when those idiots use the word rare! Some use it, dispite having little to no prior model train experience, because it is the first time they ever saw it. Most use it to describe every piece they sell. I think thay use it because they think it will help, and sometimes it does. There are so many idiots out that have no idea what they are buying, the they pay for it. I saw it used once on an Athearn F7.
                                                                      Sean

                                                                      Don RIley <steamengine4449us@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                      I remember that! It was an old Santa Fe one. From purhapes the first
                                                                      run of SD45s. Yeah nothing rare there. Never could figure whey he did
                                                                      that.
                                                                      Others sold those SD45s for the regular going rate. Hell I almost
                                                                      bought one just for the hell of it!

                                                                      Steamengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@.. .> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > recently somebody had an Athearn SD-45 with a$1500 starting bid----
                                                                      claimed "rare"--



                                                                      Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2424 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      that's sort of a "watching football" project--
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:40 AM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wheelsets

                                                                      I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing
                                                                      more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort. I only do
                                                                      a couple of cars at a time, so it doesn't get boring. While I am doing
                                                                      wheel sets, I take the time to "tune up" the trucks and their mounting
                                                                      to make sure they swivel easily and one of the pair is allowed to have
                                                                      some free lateral motion, while the other can only turn (not tip). I
                                                                      also check the Kaydee couplers for smooth motion, knuckle springs, etc.
                                                                      I haven't tried them yet, but it seems to me that some of the older
                                                                      Mantua trucks will not take the new axles, due to using very small
                                                                      diameter axles.

                                                                      For now, I am just putting a small Post-it "flag" on the top of each car
                                                                      to identify the ones that have been updated.

                                                                      Mike

                                                                      jay matz wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have gone to Life-Like Proto 200.
                                                                      > Get the reamer to do the sideframes,Micro- Mark sells them.
                                                                      > Jay
                                                                      >

                                                                      --
                                                                      Mike Sloane
                                                                      Allamuchy NJ
                                                                      <mikesloane@verizon. net>
                                                                      Website: <www.geocities. com/mikesloane>
                                                                      Images: <www.fotki.com/ mikesloane>

                                                                      I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man.
                                                                      It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2425 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      Mike Sloane wrote:
                                                                      > I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing
                                                                      > more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort.

                                                                      Is the reamer for plastic only or can it be used on metal trucks too?

                                                                      --

                                                                      Rick Jones

                                                                      The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                      Honk if you love peace and quiet.
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2426 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Cover photo contest.
                                                                      One more day to get your pictures in for the cover photo contest.
                                                                      Thursday I will be starting a poll to vote for your favorite, the
                                                                      voting will run through February.

                                                                      If you have any questions, the "rules" are in the files section, or
                                                                      please ask.

                                                                      Don
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2427 From: jay matz Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      rick
                                                                      I have used it on white metal trucks,not Brass Brass is hard.
                                                                      Jay

                                                                      Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote:
                                                                      Mike Sloane wrote:
                                                                      > I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing
                                                                      > more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort.

                                                                      Is the reamer for plastic only or can it be used on metal trucks too?

                                                                      --

                                                                      Rick Jones

                                                                      The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                      http://www.geocitie s.com/seventysix inchesoffun/

                                                                      Honk if you love peace and quiet.


                                                                      Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                                                                      in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2428 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      I have created an album in the photo section on the group homepage called  Wobbly913.
                                                                      In it I have put a few pictures of some of my "vintage Athearn" models.
                                                                       
                                                                      The first picture is of my Gold Globes.  The one with the silver trucks has an original Globe power chasis, it still runs quite nicely.
                                                                      The second picture is my Globe silver B units, I have an A, but cannot locate it now.
                                                                      The third picture is an ABBA set of Globe Union Pacific plastic frame diesels.
                                                                      The fourth picture is part of my Snow Bird collection.
                                                                      The fifth picture is my New Haven RDC tri color collection.
                                                                      Last but not least is my Hustler collection.  The closed yellow box contains a Silver 57, left closed to show the box top.  It doesn't often snow here in Sacramento, but there are three Hustler snow plows ready for when it does. There is also a picture of 3 extra orange snow plows should they ever be needed.
                                                                       
                                                                      Wobbly913

                                                                      Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                      now the "Athearn" I would consider "rare" might be an original pair of Globe F-7's, painted gold or silver, in the original boxes. 
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:41 AM
                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!

                                                                      I HATE it when those idiots use the word rare! Some use it, dispite having little to no prior model train experience, because it is the first time they ever saw it. Most use it to describe every piece they sell. I think thay use it because they think it will help, and sometimes it does. There are so many idiots out that have no idea what they are buying, the they pay for it. I saw it used once on an Athearn F7.
                                                                      Sean

                                                                      Don RIley <steamengine4449us@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                      I remember that! It was an old Santa Fe one. From purhapes the first
                                                                      run of SD45s. Yeah nothing rare there. Never could figure whey he did
                                                                      that.
                                                                      Others sold those SD45s for the regular going rate. Hell I almost
                                                                      bought one just for the hell of it!

                                                                      Steamengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, " Glenn Joesten" <glenn476@.. .> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > recently somebody had an Athearn SD-45 with a$1500 starting bid----
                                                                      claimed "rare"--



                                                                      Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.


                                                                      Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                                                                      Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2429 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
                                                                      Hey Don,
                                                                      Somehow, your message never made it to my mailbox.
                                                                      I just wanted to add.... The reason I was able to get so much speed
                                                                      on the straight stretch and have the engines fly off without even
                                                                      attempting to make the bend is because it was about an 18 foot long
                                                                      straigh stretch of track... It was a shelf layout thet went around my
                                                                      bedroom when I was in JR High through highschool. I must admit, it
                                                                      was alot of fun then... Now, I hold the like they were made of
                                                                      crystal...
                                                                      Sean

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > lol!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > WOW!! I could not afford to pay that much. Sadly I resently missed
                                                                      > the opertunity to get a Pacific. It went for like 35 on ebay. Real
                                                                      > bummer. But I am kinda broke anyway. I see the monsters now and
                                                                      then.
                                                                      > Saw one of those go resently too. Athearn made yet another yard
                                                                      > engine. An 0-6-0 do not see them as much. Was even offered lettered
                                                                      > for Southern Pacific! It woudl be way cool to have one of them. The
                                                                      > Pacific did not come lettered for SP. Though SP had LOTS of
                                                                      Pacifics.
                                                                      > Infact the RR museum in volenteer with has one.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I know what you mean about Marx. They are VERY toyish!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Those band powered engines will FLY!! Yes we have all done it. I
                                                                      have
                                                                      > a table layout with a figure 8 over and under. And even then I can
                                                                      > make um fly. And yes I have done it! I too have a set of NH engines
                                                                      > and I have flown um around the layout. I do not think they have
                                                                      ever
                                                                      > gone off though. I have lost Hustlers over the side. Those things
                                                                      > will REALLY fly!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I know what you mean about lack of space. I too have little. Hope
                                                                      to
                                                                      > get more on the next move. But that might be a while.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Don
                                                                      > aka STeamengine4449
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hey Don,
                                                                      > > A couple of things...
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I am actually glad to see I am not the youngest!
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I just sold the second athearn pacific steam engine I have ever
                                                                      > seen up close for $75+ 330072471683, I never knew it would go that
                                                                      > high... I was hoping for $36 since it was a kit, but it was mising
                                                                      > one pipe. They are pretty rare. Even more rare to come my way is
                                                                      the
                                                                      > only Athearn Little Monster 0-4-0, which I have not decided to do
                                                                      > with yet. It is a complete kit in the box as well, but it is
                                                                      missing
                                                                      > the box cover... This is the first one I have ever seen up close...
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I am always looking for Athearn or Lionel Rectifiers. I think I
                                                                      > have 4 or 6 of them now.. I just traded a newly found friend and
                                                                      > member of this group a Bachmann climax (new in the box) and some
                                                                      > brass detail pieces of his choosing for an american flyer 0-6-0
                                                                      smoke
                                                                      > unit, a New Haven Box car, a Central Valley Valve gear Kit and a
                                                                      > Lionel Rectifier (Missing two steps). The road I "Run" is New
                                                                      Haven,
                                                                      > which actually had those engines. I put "Run" in quotes, because I
                                                                      > have not had a layout in 18 years. Having two moster todlers and a
                                                                      > two bedroom house, I do not have the space for one now.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > As for the marx set... Sold it for $50 when I was 15 to a guy
                                                                      who
                                                                      > had an ad in the MR. I never really liked the Marx Set. It never
                                                                      ran
                                                                      > good and always required cleaning. Besides it looked too toy like
                                                                      for
                                                                      > me... I probably purchased mor New Haven equipment with it. As for
                                                                      > the Athearn F7s... I do not think the engines made it... I beat the
                                                                      > hell out of them. I had a straight stretch on my layout that I
                                                                      would
                                                                      > go full throttle on. It ended in a 18" rad curve... Once, as my
                                                                      > vintage New haven White F7 engine pair hit the wall at the other
                                                                      end,
                                                                      > I clocked it at 260 miles per hour (scale speed). I think I sold
                                                                      them
                                                                      > as "Junk" two years ago, but immediatly replaced them with exactly
                                                                      > the same engine (but mint) ..several times over, maybe - probably
                                                                      out
                                                                      > of gilt, now I have a boot box full of the white New Haven F7s.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I also have a box full of athearn silver passenger car... I
                                                                      plan
                                                                      > to make a matched set of the New Haven Budd Roger Williams. I made
                                                                      > one off of photos, before I found plans. I plan to start over now.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I still have all the cast metal details and people though.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Later! Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2430 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"
                                                                      Hey Guys,
                                                                      The custom Varney Lil Joe that looks like a yard goat now, is in
                                                                      MY "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder was sold to John, just last
                                                                      month. After he got it, he thanksd me, then he sent me an email
                                                                      saying he thought it had actually started off as a Mantua shell and
                                                                      not a varney..!!?? And he wrote the guide??? A quick, but close look
                                                                      will definately confirm it to be a varney... Just thought it to be a
                                                                      bit ironic... that's all!
                                                                      Sean
                                                                      ps.. I woiuld like to see the pics originally attached to this
                                                                      message. I have not figured out how to do that yet.








                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > You might contact Kalmbach who now owns Greenberg Publishing (who
                                                                      published the book - I have one).
                                                                      >
                                                                      > By the way, I got a Varney item off ebay long ago that might amuse
                                                                      both that author and this group. It is the "Li'L Raskal Wreck Proof
                                                                      Train". It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the book and you might
                                                                      mention that to the author is you reach him.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I bought one that had pretty good contents in a pretty bad box.
                                                                      Later, another ebayer got a pretty good box with some missing
                                                                      contents. I thought the world would be better with at least one nice
                                                                      sample and sold mine to the guy to put together one fairly good set.
                                                                      And it definitely seems pretty "wreck proof".
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have attached photos of the thing.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Chuck Kinzer
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      > From: Andrew Emmerson
                                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:35 AM
                                                                      > Subject: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel?
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I would like to get in touch with John Spanagel about his Varney
                                                                      book and
                                                                      > just wondered if he is a member of this forum.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > His snail mail address is on the NMRA website but an e-mail would
                                                                      be simpler
                                                                      > and faster. Any help most welcome!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Thanks,
                                                                      > Andrew Emmerson (in England)
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2431 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      Hey Guys!
                                                                      I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this engine I
                                                                      have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, if
                                                                      anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i will
                                                                      gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first time I
                                                                      have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the Penn Line
                                                                      Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly smaller..
                                                                      Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my core
                                                                      collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe when
                                                                      I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire
                                                                      collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.

                                                                      Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those old
                                                                      metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who makes
                                                                      them.
                                                                      Thanks, Sean


                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hey Guys...
                                                                      > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I
                                                                      just
                                                                      > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right
                                                                      > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like
                                                                      > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just
                                                                      > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and
                                                                      > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure
                                                                      out
                                                                      > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip
                                                                      > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in
                                                                      > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough
                                                                      > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                      > Nice little engine though...
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2432 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 1/30/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreckproof train"
                                                                      I'll send an email direct to you with the pictures attached.
                                                                       
                                                                      Chuck Kinzer
                                                                       
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:42 PM
                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreckproof train"

                                                                      Hey Guys,
                                                                      The custom Varney Lil Joe that looks like a yard goat now, is in
                                                                      MY "SOME OF MY MANY PROJECTS" folder was sold to John, just last
                                                                      month. After he got it, he thanksd me, then he sent me an email
                                                                      saying he thought it had actually started off as a Mantua shell and
                                                                      not a varney..!!?? And he wrote the guide??? A quick, but close look
                                                                      will definately confirm it to be a varney... Just thought it to be a
                                                                      bit ironic... that's all!
                                                                      Sean
                                                                      ps.. I woiuld like to see the pics originally attached to this
                                                                      message. I have not figured out how to do that yet.

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@... >
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > You might contact Kalmbach who now owns Greenberg Publishing (who
                                                                      published the book - I have one).
                                                                      >
                                                                      > By the way, I got a Varney item off ebay long ago that might amuse
                                                                      both that author and this group. It is the "Li'L Raskal Wreck Proof
                                                                      Train". It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the book and you might
                                                                      mention that to the author is you reach him.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I bought one that had pretty good contents in a pretty bad box.
                                                                      Later, another ebayer got a pretty good box with some missing
                                                                      contents. I thought the world would be better with at least one nice
                                                                      sample and sold mine to the guy to put together one fairly good set.
                                                                      And it definitely seems pretty "wreck proof".
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have attached photos of the thing.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Chuck Kinzer
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      > From: Andrew Emmerson
                                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                      > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:35 AM
                                                                      > Subject: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel?
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I would like to get in touch with John Spanagel about his Varney
                                                                      book and
                                                                      > just wondered if he is a member of this forum.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > His snail mail address is on the NMRA website but an e-mail would
                                                                      be simpler
                                                                      > and faster. Any help most welcome!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Thanks,
                                                                      > Andrew Emmerson (in England)
                                                                      >

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2433 From: Don RIley Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      LOL nothing rare about Athearn F7s. My line has a fleet of um.
                                                                      Yeah not much rare about Athearn. Though the old steamers and the
                                                                      Rectifyer kinda are.

                                                                      Steamengine4449

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I HATE it when those idiots use the word rare! Some use it, dispite
                                                                      having little to no prior model train experience, because it is the
                                                                      first time they ever saw it. Most use it to describe every piece they
                                                                      sell. I think thay use it because they think it will help, and
                                                                      sometimes it does. There are so many idiots out that have no idea what
                                                                      they are buying, the they pay for it. I saw it used once on an Athearn
                                                                      F7.
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2434 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      The "reamer" is really more of a "cleaner" - I rarely get more then a
                                                                      little dirt from each twist, but that is all it takes to restore good
                                                                      performance to a truck. It is very nice to finish up a cleaning and
                                                                      wheelset replacement and spin the two axles and have them spin for
                                                                      thirty seconds or so - when the old plastic wheelsets would barely make
                                                                      it a couple of revolutions.

                                                                      I have thought many time that it would have made sense for the
                                                                      manufacturer to put a cutting edge on both ends of the reamer so that
                                                                      you could do both journals of a truck at the same time and save a LOT of
                                                                      time and trouble. That doesn't seem like too much to ask.

                                                                      Mike

                                                                      Rick Jones wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Mike Sloane wrote:
                                                                      > > I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing
                                                                      > > more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Is the reamer for plastic only or can it be used on metal trucks too?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Rick Jones

                                                                      --
                                                                      Mike Sloane
                                                                      Allamuchy NJ
                                                                      <mikesloane@...>
                                                                      Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                      Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                      I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man.
                                                                      It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2435 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      Ok, ok, enough!    I am sold!   (:P)   
                                                                       
                                                                      Where do I get one of these reamers?
                                                                      You guys have convinced me!
                                                                      Thanks, Sean

                                                                      Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote:
                                                                      The "reamer" is really more of a "cleaner" - I rarely get more then a
                                                                      little dirt from each twist, but that is all it takes to restore good
                                                                      performance to a truck. It is very nice to finish up a cleaning and
                                                                      wheelset replacement and spin the two axles and have them spin for
                                                                      thirty seconds or so - when the old plastic wheelsets would barely make
                                                                      it a couple of revolutions.

                                                                      I have thought many time that it would have made sense for the
                                                                      manufacturer to put a cutting edge on both ends of the reamer so that
                                                                      you could do both journals of a truck at the same time and save a LOT of
                                                                      time and trouble. That doesn't seem like too much to ask.

                                                                      Mike

                                                                      Rick Jones wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Mike Sloane wrote:
                                                                      > > I agree with Jay. The reamer is a bit tedious to use if you are doing
                                                                      > > more than a couple of trucks, but it is well worth the effort.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Is the reamer for plastic only or can it be used on metal trucks too?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Rick Jones

                                                                      --
                                                                      Mike Sloane
                                                                      Allamuchy NJ
                                                                      <mikesloane@verizon. net>
                                                                      Website: <www.geocities. com/mikesloane>
                                                                      Images: <www.fotki.com/ mikesloane>

                                                                      I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man.
                                                                      It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)


                                                                      Be a PS3 game guru.
                                                                      Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2436 From: Mike Sloane Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Wheelsets
                                                                      <http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=82838>

                                                                      Or go to <http://www.micromark.com/> and search for: truck tuner

                                                                      Mike

                                                                      sean naylor wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Ok, ok, enough! I am sold! (:P)
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Where do I get one of these reamers?
                                                                      > You guys have convinced me!
                                                                      > Thanks, Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      > */Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...>/* wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > The "reamer" is really more of a "cleaner" - I rarely get more then a
                                                                      > little dirt from each twist, but that is all it takes to restore good
                                                                      > performance to a truck. It is very nice to finish up a cleaning and
                                                                      > wheelset replacement and spin the two axles and have them spin for
                                                                      > thirty seconds or so - when the old plastic wheelsets would barely make
                                                                      > it a couple of revolutions.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have thought many time that it would have made sense for the
                                                                      > manufacturer to put a cutting edge on both ends of the reamer so that
                                                                      > you could do both journals of a truck at the same time and save a
                                                                      > LOT of
                                                                      > time and trouble. That doesn't seem like too much to ask.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Mike
                                                                      >

                                                                      --
                                                                      Mike Sloane
                                                                      Allamuchy NJ
                                                                      <mikesloane@...>
                                                                      Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                      Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                      I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man.
                                                                      It is us. -Konrad Lorenz, ethologist, Nobel laureate (1903-1989)
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2437 From: oljoeoh Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      Hi;
                                                                      I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO
                                                                      loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland
                                                                      hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one
                                                                      the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks
                                                                      like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels
                                                                      didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the
                                                                      large drivers and 3 with the small drivers.
                                                                      My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to
                                                                      well to running around the layout in the same direction
                                                                      for years. The driver axles eventually wore into
                                                                      the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a
                                                                      permanent wish to go only in the same direction it
                                                                      had been running in.
                                                                      The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might
                                                                      be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring"
                                                                      drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor
                                                                      are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at
                                                                      yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you
                                                                      hold onto the original running gear.
                                                                      Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a
                                                                      single one that wasn't gear driven.
                                                                      Joe O'Loughlin


                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hey Guys!
                                                                      > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this engine I
                                                                      > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, if
                                                                      > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i will
                                                                      > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first time I
                                                                      > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the Penn Line
                                                                      > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly smaller..
                                                                      > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my core
                                                                      > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe when
                                                                      > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire
                                                                      > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those old
                                                                      > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who makes
                                                                      > them.
                                                                      > Thanks, Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hey Guys...
                                                                      > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I
                                                                      > just
                                                                      > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right
                                                                      > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like
                                                                      > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just
                                                                      > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and
                                                                      > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure
                                                                      > out
                                                                      > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip
                                                                      > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in
                                                                      > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough
                                                                      > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                      > > Nice little engine though...
                                                                      > > Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2438 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      Hey Joe,
                                                                      First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not apear to be interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into place bu a square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and the electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add gears, but I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no tabs to slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the same worm gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis openings (on the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The other diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud and the tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is also mounted to the chassis on this one.  If you take the shells (bare with no chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded opening edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect that snce the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.
                                                                       
                                                                      The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because it came baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight. My headlight works, by the way.
                                                                       
                                                                      I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                      Sean

                                                                      oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                      Hi;
                                                                      I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO
                                                                      loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland
                                                                      hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one
                                                                      the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks
                                                                      like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels
                                                                      didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the
                                                                      large drivers and 3 with the small drivers.
                                                                      My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to
                                                                      well to running around the layout in the same direction
                                                                      for years. The driver axles eventually wore into
                                                                      the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a
                                                                      permanent wish to go only in the same direction it
                                                                      had been running in.
                                                                      The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might
                                                                      be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring"
                                                                      drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor
                                                                      are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at
                                                                      yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you
                                                                      hold onto the original running gear.
                                                                      Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a
                                                                      single one that wasn't gear driven.
                                                                      Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hey Guys!
                                                                      > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this engine I
                                                                      > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, if
                                                                      > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i will
                                                                      > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first time I
                                                                      > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the Penn Line
                                                                      > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly smaller..
                                                                      > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my core
                                                                      > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe when
                                                                      > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire
                                                                      > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those old
                                                                      > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who makes
                                                                      > them.
                                                                      > Thanks, Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ >
                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hey Guys...
                                                                      > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I
                                                                      > just
                                                                      > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right
                                                                      > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like
                                                                      > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just
                                                                      > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and
                                                                      > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure
                                                                      > out
                                                                      > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip
                                                                      > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in
                                                                      > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough
                                                                      > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                      > > Nice little engine though...
                                                                      > > Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >



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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2439 From: rcjge Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      Hi Guys:

                                                                      I don't mean to shock you but over the last year I have seen a
                                                                      tripling of the value in Tyco, yes Tyco values. This is Germaine
                                                                      because a year ago a Tyco GG-1 that I would have sold for $15 now I
                                                                      wouldn't part with for less than $50. You do the math! As to Athearn.
                                                                      In the Early 70's when I made my first pass through model trains,
                                                                      almost all my rolling stock was Tyco. My Motive roster was made up of
                                                                      an Athearn Hustler, Athearn PA-1's, and a Roundhouse Boxcab which I
                                                                      still have. What was Ubiquitous then is nostalic see RARE now. In the
                                                                      mid-80's I was working on Motorcycles for a living and based on those
                                                                      Honda's Yamaha's etc. The 60's Triumphs and BSA's had been junk BUt a
                                                                      ordinary Triumph from the late 50's to early 70's sells in the Metro
                                                                      Torotno area for over $6000.00! The relationship is that I loved that
                                                                      Athearn PA-1 (D&H) and I own 4 Hustlers currently. Hell I see Mantua
                                                                      centercab industrial switchers going for $50 in good condition. Time
                                                                      moves on and so does what vintage. The Blue box Athearns of the
                                                                      60's-70's are going to have there turn, as will someday the last Atlas
                                                                      DC locomotives! ;-)

                                                                      Cheers,
                                                                      Gareth


                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in Lionel
                                                                      > boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven Snowbirds
                                                                      > with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I was
                                                                      > truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link to the
                                                                      > ad.
                                                                      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%
                                                                      > 3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Steamengine4449
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2440 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: $400 Athearn in Lionel boxes!
                                                                      This is a good read if you want to see one view on the price of junk:
                                                                      http://www.trainweb.org/lfnwfan/html/Sociology.htm


                                                                      > Hi Guys:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I don't mean to shock you but over the last year I have seen a
                                                                      > tripling of the value in Tyco, yes Tyco values. This is Germaine
                                                                      > because a year ago a Tyco GG-1 that I would have sold for $15 now I
                                                                      > wouldn't part with for less than $50. You do the math! As to
                                                                      Athearn.
                                                                      > In the Early 70's when I made my first pass through model trains,
                                                                      > almost all my rolling stock was Tyco. My Motive roster was made up
                                                                      of
                                                                      > an Athearn Hustler, Athearn PA-1's, and a Roundhouse Boxcab which I
                                                                      > still have. What was Ubiquitous then is nostalic see RARE now. In
                                                                      the
                                                                      > mid-80's I was working on Motorcycles for a living and based on
                                                                      those
                                                                      > Honda's Yamaha's etc. The 60's Triumphs and BSA's had been junk
                                                                      BUt a
                                                                      > ordinary Triumph from the late 50's to early 70's sells in the
                                                                      Metro
                                                                      > Torotno area for over $6000.00! The relationship is that I loved
                                                                      that
                                                                      > Athearn PA-1 (D&H) and I own 4 Hustlers currently. Hell I see
                                                                      Mantua
                                                                      > centercab industrial switchers going for $50 in good condition.
                                                                      Time
                                                                      > moves on and so does what vintage. The Blue box Athearns of the
                                                                      > 60's-70's are going to have there turn, as will someday the last
                                                                      Atlas
                                                                      > DC locomotives! ;-)
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Cheers,
                                                                      > Gareth
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don RIley" <steamengine4449us@>
                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > So did anyone else see the 400 dallar Athearns! Yes they were in
                                                                      Lionel
                                                                      > > boxes. But still VERY Athearn. It was an AB set of New Haven
                                                                      Snowbirds
                                                                      > > with band drives and four Athearn Globe style passenger cars. I
                                                                      was
                                                                      > > truely amazed at what it went for! And for proof here is a link
                                                                      to the
                                                                      > > ad.
                                                                      > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
                                                                      ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%
                                                                      > > 3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120077476700&rd=1&rd=1
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Steamengine4449
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2441 From: oahurailway Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      > Thanks,
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >

                                                                      > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney 6V
                                                                      Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power truck
                                                                      manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The wheels
                                                                      were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I suspect
                                                                      that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The Penn-
                                                                      Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, powered
                                                                      by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of the
                                                                      original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member.

                                                                      I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as
                                                                      was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by Athearn
                                                                      would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this
                                                                      helps....Ken
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2442 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      Hey Ken,
                                                                      Your instructions left on Monday, you should be getting them soon.
                                                                       
                                                                      I will post pictures as soon as I get home from work, of thie underside of this engine, as well as the motor..although I hatte to tear it apart again. I had such trouble originally figuring out that it was shorting out and where it was shorting out. This is not a Varney drive... It looks more like the Penn Line, but it is made of brass. Ultimately, it could be a home made engine, but my gut (and my hope) is that it is not and that it is an earlier Whitcomb (By the way, thanks, I could not remember that). The drivers are the same size on the two I have... It has only one pulley on each shaft as well. I tried the rubber band and it just slipped off and would not stay in the pulley.
                                                                      Sean

                                                                      oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      > Thanks,
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >

                                                                      > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney 6V
                                                                      Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power truck
                                                                      manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The wheels
                                                                      were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I suspect
                                                                      that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The Penn-
                                                                      Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, powered
                                                                      by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of the
                                                                      original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member.

                                                                      I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as
                                                                      was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by Athearn
                                                                      would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this
                                                                      helps....Ken



                                                                      Don't pick lemons.
                                                                      See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2443 From: Ian Garton Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                      Hi Victor,

                                                                      Canopy glue can also be found as Super RC Z 56 glue. My local hobby
                                                                      store carries it and it can be found online:
                                                                      http://www.blackbearcc.com/glue.htm

                                                                      It's also great for adding crew members to locomotives because it gives
                                                                      you time to adjust them before it dries and it'll withstand shock and
                                                                      vibration. I never use it for wood though. I use Weldbond for that.

                                                                      Ian


                                                                      --- Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:

                                                                      > Hi Mike,
                                                                      > I am guessing you are referring to the Pacer Canopy Glue, I pointed
                                                                      > out. I
                                                                      > haven't used it yet, but will take your word that it is not similar
                                                                      > to
                                                                      > Elmers. However, Scotty Mason, discusses its use in the DVD,
                                                                      > "Building
                                                                      > Craftsman Structure Kits". He uses it just like you would White
                                                                      > Glue, on
                                                                      > plaster, wood, everything. It even looks like White Glue...in the
                                                                      > DVD
                                                                      > anyway. The really nice part about it is that you can literally
                                                                      > create
                                                                      > window glass in smaller pane sizes without actually using glass or
                                                                      > clear
                                                                      > plastic. If you do need to use clear plastic, this is supposed to be
                                                                      > the
                                                                      > BEST stuff for gluing it.
                                                                      > Now, what I REALLY want to know is, if they sell this at Michaels
                                                                      > under a
                                                                      > different name, that may be the way to go? Do you happen to know
                                                                      > what it is
                                                                      > called at Michaels?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Vic Bitleris
                                                                      > Raleigh, NC
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                      > From: "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...>
                                                                      > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                      > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Best type or kind of glue to use with a
                                                                      > wooden
                                                                      > kit...
                                                                      > Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:21:46 -0500
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Vic:
                                                                      > This is not similar to a white glue at all, not even in the same
                                                                      > class,
                                                                      > but
                                                                      > you can get it at a Michael store under another name, and it is the
                                                                      > same has
                                                                      > what MircoScale has for doing windows, and that Testors has out for
                                                                      > clear
                                                                      > parts and windows, but it is not anywhere close to being the same has
                                                                      > Elmers
                                                                      > white glue or even the yellow glue you are talking about. Just wanted
                                                                      > to
                                                                      > clear that up.
                                                                      > Mike Looney


                                                                      __________________________________________________
                                                                      Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2444 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      Ok,
                                                                      I have added 5 more pics of the two engines, chassis and motors to compare...
                                                                      Sean
                                                                       
                                                                      oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      > Thanks,
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >

                                                                      > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney 6V
                                                                      Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power truck
                                                                      manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The wheels
                                                                      were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I suspect
                                                                      that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The Penn-
                                                                      Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart, powered
                                                                      by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of the
                                                                      original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member.

                                                                      I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as
                                                                      was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by Athearn
                                                                      would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this
                                                                      helps....Ken



                                                                      Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
                                                                      with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2445 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      Um.....I have a PennLine mini-dismal.
                                                                      One screw and they drop the chassis right out.
                                                                      The drives had enough clearance to have no shorts.
                                                                      Other interesting bitnon yours (and possibly last owner), is the
                                                                      vertical mullion innthe cab windows is not there, the windows are
                                                                      bigger, there are handrail stanchion holes on the cab and front of
                                                                      hood, the the cast handrail along the top of the hood is not there.
                                                                      It appears the front of the engine is a bit longer.

                                                                      Either heavily re-worked cosmetically (likely), which would add the
                                                                      possibility of a different drive (now more probable).
                                                                      I have a photo of mine on Yardbird in the photo section under
                                                                      Curmudgeon's cast Stuff.

                                                                      I can see re-doing the handrails, but the drive?


                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hey Ken,
                                                                      > Your instructions left on Monday, you should be getting them
                                                                      soon.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I will post pictures as soon as I get home from work, of thie
                                                                      underside of this engine, as well as the motor..although I hatte to
                                                                      tear it apart again. I had such trouble originally figuring out that
                                                                      it was shorting out and where it was shorting out. This is not a
                                                                      Varney drive... It looks more like the Penn Line, but it is made of
                                                                      brass. Ultimately, it could be a home made engine, but my gut (and
                                                                      my hope) is that it is not and that it is an earlier Whitcomb (By
                                                                      the way, thanks, I could not remember that). The drivers are the
                                                                      same size on the two I have... It has only one pulley on each shaft
                                                                      as well. I tried the rubber band and it just slipped off and would
                                                                      not stay in the pulley.
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      > oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor
                                                                      <a69mustang4me@> wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      > > Thanks,
                                                                      > > Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney
                                                                      6V
                                                                      > Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power
                                                                      truck
                                                                      > manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The
                                                                      wheels
                                                                      > were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I
                                                                      suspect
                                                                      > that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The
                                                                      Penn-
                                                                      > Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart,
                                                                      powered
                                                                      > by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of
                                                                      the
                                                                      > original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as
                                                                      > was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by
                                                                      Athearn
                                                                      > would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this
                                                                      > helps....Ken
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                      > Don't pick lemons.
                                                                      > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2446 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      More- I pulled mine down to look.
                                                                      My hood sides are different than yours. You blank area from the top
                                                                      louver to the edge of the side cover is longer.
                                                                      The front steps at the pilot have been removed, or not there.
                                                                      The air tank, fireman's side, your "straps" are straight up, even
                                                                      with the running boards.
                                                                      Mine curve around the tank and disappear under the running board.
                                                                      Rear steps are gone, front and rear decks are longer, no headlight,
                                                                      shorter and fatter stack, some kind of side window extensions inside
                                                                      the cab, and the bottom cover does not have a notch near the rear
                                                                      the PennLine original lower covers have.

                                                                      >
                                                                      > Ok,
                                                                      > I have added 5 more pics of the two engines, chassis and motors
                                                                      to compare...
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      > oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor
                                                                      <a69mustang4me@> wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      > > Thanks,
                                                                      > > Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney
                                                                      6V
                                                                      > Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power
                                                                      truck
                                                                      > manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The
                                                                      wheels
                                                                      > were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I
                                                                      suspect
                                                                      > that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The
                                                                      Penn-
                                                                      > Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart,
                                                                      powered
                                                                      > by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of
                                                                      the
                                                                      > original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as
                                                                      > was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by
                                                                      Athearn
                                                                      > would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this
                                                                      > helps....Ken
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                      > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
                                                                      > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2447 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      Looked at your picture.
                                                                      Narrower, shorter in height, no rivets, coupler boxes different,
                                                                      internal shape totally different.

                                                                      Okay, let's brainstorm this.
                                                                      They made an early one, found out the band drive didn't work well.
                                                                      Okay, so they threw away the molds and did a whole new mold.
                                                                      Can't just modify the mold to make it taller and wider.

                                                                      Who knows, maybe you have the prototype!


                                                                      >
                                                                      > Ok,
                                                                      > I have added 5 more pics of the two engines, chassis and motors
                                                                      to compare...
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      > oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor
                                                                      <a69mustang4me@> wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      > > Thanks,
                                                                      > > Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney
                                                                      6V
                                                                      > Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power
                                                                      truck
                                                                      > manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The
                                                                      wheels
                                                                      > were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I
                                                                      suspect
                                                                      > that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The
                                                                      Penn-
                                                                      > Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart,
                                                                      powered
                                                                      > by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of
                                                                      the
                                                                      > original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as
                                                                      > was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by
                                                                      Athearn
                                                                      > would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this
                                                                      > helps....Ken
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                      > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
                                                                      > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2448 From: oahurailway Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hey Ken,
                                                                      > Your instructions left on Monday, you should be getting them
                                                                      soon.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I will post pictures as soon as I get home from work, of thie
                                                                      underside of this engine, as well as the motor..although I hatte to
                                                                      tear it apart again. I had such trouble originally figuring out that
                                                                      it was shorting out and where it was shorting out. This is not a
                                                                      Varney drive... It looks more like the Penn Line, but it is made of
                                                                      brass. Ultimately, it could be a home made engine, but my gut (and my
                                                                      hope) is that it is not and that it is an earlier Whitcomb (By the
                                                                      way, thanks, I could not remember that). The drivers are the same
                                                                      size on the two I have... It has only one pulley on each shaft as
                                                                      well. I tried the rubber band and it just slipped off and would not
                                                                      stay in the pulley.


                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Thanks for the "heads up" on the instructions! I really
                                                                      appreciate it! Tom already sent out the envelope, & it's in really
                                                                      great shape!

                                                                      I don't have a clue on that Whitcomb. Your pix are great, but the
                                                                      drive looks too well fabricated to be "scratched". You're right on
                                                                      the fact that it's not a Varney drive. Maybe of oriental manufacture?

                                                                      Thanks again! Ken
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2449 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini

                                                                      Sean,

                                                                      I have one old and two newer ones.  I have just looked at the photos 19 to 23.  Nice detailed photos.  I do not think your green one is Penn Line, unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype.  There are just too many differences, to the point that the similarities are there because it is a model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb.  I do like your headlight, nice touch.  Just my two cents.

                                                                      Take care.

                                                                       

                                                                      Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

                                                                       


                                                                      From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor
                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM
                                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

                                                                       

                                                                      Hey Joe,

                                                                      First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not apear to be interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into place bu a square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and the electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add gears, but I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no tabs to slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the same worm gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis openings (on the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The other diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud and the tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is also mounted to the chassis on this one.  If you take the shells (bare with no chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded opening edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect that snce the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.

                                                                       

                                                                      The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because it came baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight. My headlight works, by the way.

                                                                       

                                                                      I would sure like to solve this mystery.

                                                                      Thanks,

                                                                      Sean

                                                                      oljoeoh <oljoe@landolls. com> wrote:

                                                                      Hi;
                                                                      I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO
                                                                      loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland
                                                                      hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one
                                                                      the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks
                                                                      like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels
                                                                      didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the
                                                                      large drivers and 3 with the small drivers.
                                                                      My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to
                                                                      well to running around the layout in the same direction
                                                                      for years. The driver axles eventually wore into
                                                                      the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a
                                                                      permanent wish to go only in the same direction it
                                                                      had been running in.
                                                                      The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might
                                                                      be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring"
                                                                      drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor
                                                                      are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at
                                                                      yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you
                                                                      hold onto the original running gear.
                                                                      Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a
                                                                      single one that wasn't gear driven.
                                                                      Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hey Guys!
                                                                      > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this engine I
                                                                      > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or, if
                                                                      > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i will
                                                                      > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first time I
                                                                      > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the Penn Line
                                                                      > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly smaller..
                                                                      > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my core
                                                                      > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe when
                                                                      > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire
                                                                      > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those old
                                                                      > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who makes
                                                                      > them.
                                                                      > Thanks, Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ >
                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hey Guys...
                                                                      > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel. I
                                                                      > just
                                                                      > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am right
                                                                      > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven like
                                                                      > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I just
                                                                      > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in pieces and
                                                                      > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to figure
                                                                      > out
                                                                      > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a strip
                                                                      > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it spinning in
                                                                      > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight enough
                                                                      > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                      > > Nice little engine though...
                                                                      > > Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >

                                                                       

                                                                       


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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2450 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      On the contrary, the internal shape of the hood is basicly the same... look again Start from the tanks and work in... same shape to the tanks... (same size even), then look at the area just behind the tanks... both go from a short flat spot just behind the front steps (or lack ther of in the one in question) then move to a concave curveas you travel along the underside toward the rear. As you reach the middle area of the side tanks the shell flattens out again... It is odd that they both have that same exact feature... Then look at the couplet cut-out region... The confirmed Penn Line is the same width and are only different in the depth as seen from the underside. When you look from straight on from the front, the coupler box hole is the same measurement, if measured from the deck to the top of the hole. The confirmed penn line is only cut the whole way through the front end.
                                                                       
                                                                      Now, Look just behind the coupler cut-out, in the inner hood region. The inside of the radiator area has this shape on both castings " \_________/ "  This shape, combined with the same tanks and concave feature behind the tanks are the clinchers with me.
                                                                      What do you guys see? Am I crazy, or do these features match?
                                                                       
                                                                      As for the windows missing the supports.. I see no evidence of filing anywhere inside the frames, only outside the cab, front end and deck areas. The venting on the hood sides looks to be hand carved and does not have clean lines like the confirmed model.
                                                                       Thanks again for looking... I find the engine fascinating...
                                                                      Sean

                                                                      curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                      Looked at your picture.
                                                                      Narrower, shorter in height, no rivets, coupler boxes different,
                                                                      internal shape totally different.

                                                                      Okay, let's brainstorm this.
                                                                      They made an early one, found out the band drive didn't work well.
                                                                      Okay, so they threw away the molds and did a whole new mold.
                                                                      Can't just modify the mold to make it taller and wider.

                                                                      Who knows, maybe you have the prototype!

                                                                      >
                                                                      > Ok,
                                                                      > I have added 5 more pics of the two engines, chassis and motors
                                                                      to compare...
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      > oahurailway <two.peaks@. ..> wrote:
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor
                                                                      <a69mustang4me@ > wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      > > Thanks,
                                                                      > > Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney
                                                                      6V
                                                                      > Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power
                                                                      truck
                                                                      > manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The
                                                                      wheels
                                                                      > were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I
                                                                      suspect
                                                                      > that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The
                                                                      Penn-
                                                                      > Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart,
                                                                      powered
                                                                      > by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of
                                                                      the
                                                                      > original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group member.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but as
                                                                      > was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by
                                                                      Athearn
                                                                      > would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this
                                                                      > helps....Ken
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                      > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
                                                                      > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
                                                                      >



                                                                      The fish are biting.
                                                                      Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2451 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                      Look at the overall height.
                                                                      Look at the overall width.
                                                                      Look at the lack of pilot side steps.
                                                                      Look at your side tanks in your own photos!
                                                                      The green ones are close to the edge of the running board!
                                                                      And, it looks like they are overhanging!
                                                                      There is no recess for the original lower plate at the front, the
                                                                      rear mount area is rounded over, not square, the green one has
                                                                      casting marks front and rear, the non-green one has two side by side
                                                                      in the cab roof area, the big chunks inside the cab windows is no
                                                                      there on the PennLine, there is a hole under the sand dome in
                                                                      Greenie, overall at least 1/8" shorter. Your photos of the
                                                                      undersides with the drives in place show the back edge of the
                                                                      running borads a WHOLE lot close together, plus the straps on the
                                                                      air tanks aren't the same spacing! Cast-in either coupler lift bar
                                                                      supports or end rail support on Greenie, not on PennLines, headlight
                                                                      in the top of the front of the radiator, front cab windows, the
                                                                      entire shape of the top of the hood is different, not sure what
                                                                      those holes are for in the top of the cab on all 4 corners, zero
                                                                      rivet detail, radiator grile not even close....
                                                                      So, totally different shell, totally different drive, different
                                                                      wheels, my guess, as I said earlier, it a prototype (hope) or some
                                                                      knock-off.
                                                                      But, that's just a guess.But, the more I look at it (and the one in
                                                                      my hand as I type) the more I think Japanese knock-off.



                                                                      >
                                                                      > On the contrary, the internal shape of the hood is basicly the
                                                                      same... look again Start from the tanks and work in... same shape to
                                                                      the tanks... (same size even), then look at the area just behind the
                                                                      tanks... both go from a short flat spot just behind the front steps
                                                                      (or lack ther of in the one in question) then move to a concave
                                                                      curveas you travel along the underside toward the rear. As you reach
                                                                      the middle area of the side tanks the shell flattens out again... It
                                                                      is odd that they both have that same exact feature... Then look at
                                                                      the couplet cut-out region... The confirmed Penn Line is the same
                                                                      width and are only different in the depth as seen from the
                                                                      underside. When you look from straight on from the front, the
                                                                      coupler box hole is the same measurement, if measured from the deck
                                                                      to the top of the hole. The confirmed penn line is only cut the
                                                                      whole way through the front end.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Now, Look just behind the coupler cut-out, in the inner hood
                                                                      region. The inside of the radiator area has this shape on both
                                                                      castings " \_________/ " This shape, combined with the same tanks
                                                                      and concave feature behind the tanks are the clinchers with me.
                                                                      > What do you guys see? Am I crazy, or do these features match?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > As for the windows missing the supports.. I see no evidence of
                                                                      filing anywhere inside the frames, only outside the cab, front end
                                                                      and deck areas. The venting on the hood sides looks to be hand
                                                                      carved and does not have clean lines like the confirmed model.
                                                                      > Thanks again for looking... I find the engine fascinating...
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                      > Looked at your picture.
                                                                      > Narrower, shorter in height, no rivets, coupler boxes different,
                                                                      > internal shape totally different.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Okay, let's brainstorm this.
                                                                      > They made an early one, found out the band drive didn't work well.
                                                                      > Okay, so they threw away the molds and did a whole new mold.
                                                                      > Can't just modify the mold to make it taller and wider.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Who knows, maybe you have the prototype!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Ok,
                                                                      > > I have added 5 more pics of the two engines, chassis and motors
                                                                      > to compare...
                                                                      > > Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > oahurailway <two.peaks@> wrote:
                                                                      > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor
                                                                      > <a69mustang4me@> wrote:
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      > > > Thanks,
                                                                      > > > Sean
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > > Sean, I've added three(#17, #18, & #19) pix to my "1941 Varney
                                                                      > 6V
                                                                      > > Dockside" album of the Varney #1663-K spring belt driven power
                                                                      > truck
                                                                      > > manufactured from 1948-57, powered by a Pittman DC-60 motor. The
                                                                      > wheels
                                                                      > > were a scale 36" in diameter, & the axles were 1 1/8" apart. I
                                                                      > suspect
                                                                      > > that this could be the power unit in your Whitcomb switcher. The
                                                                      > Penn-
                                                                      > > Line model had wheels that were a scale 33" & about 7/8" apart,
                                                                      > powered
                                                                      > > by I believe, a Pittman DC-66 motor. I recently acquired one of
                                                                      > the
                                                                      > > original Penn-Line Whitcombs from another Vintage HO Group
                                                                      member.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I don't know of a source of the Varney #1658 spring belts, but
                                                                      as
                                                                      > > was already mentioned, a small rubber band like those used by
                                                                      > Athearn
                                                                      > > would probably perform as a temporary replacement. Hope this
                                                                      > > helps....Ken
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > ---------------------------------
                                                                      > > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
                                                                      > > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                      > The fish are biting.
                                                                      > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2452 From: a69mustang4me Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
                                                                      Hello Chuck,
                                                                      By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful thinking
                                                                      on my part. Thanks, sean


                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Sean,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the
                                                                      photos 19 to
                                                                      > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn
                                                                      Line,
                                                                      > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just
                                                                      too many
                                                                      > differences, to the point that the similarities are there because
                                                                      it is a
                                                                      > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your
                                                                      headlight,
                                                                      > nice touch. Just my two cents.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Take care.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                                      > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > _____
                                                                      >
                                                                      > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                      On Behalf
                                                                      > Of sean naylor
                                                                      > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM
                                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line
                                                                      Mini
                                                                      > Diesel.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hey Joe,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the
                                                                      > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not
                                                                      apear to be
                                                                      > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into
                                                                      place bu a
                                                                      > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and
                                                                      the
                                                                      > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the
                                                                      > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add
                                                                      gears, but
                                                                      > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no
                                                                      tabs to
                                                                      > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the
                                                                      same worm
                                                                      > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis
                                                                      openings (on
                                                                      > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The
                                                                      other
                                                                      > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud
                                                                      and the
                                                                      > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is
                                                                      also
                                                                      > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare
                                                                      with no
                                                                      > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded
                                                                      opening
                                                                      > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect
                                                                      that snce
                                                                      > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because
                                                                      it came
                                                                      > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight.
                                                                      My
                                                                      > headlight works, by the way.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Thanks,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hi;
                                                                      > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO
                                                                      > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland
                                                                      > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one
                                                                      > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks
                                                                      > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels
                                                                      > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the
                                                                      > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers.
                                                                      > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to
                                                                      > well to running around the layout in the same direction
                                                                      > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into
                                                                      > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a
                                                                      > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it
                                                                      > had been running in.
                                                                      > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might
                                                                      > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring"
                                                                      > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor
                                                                      > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at
                                                                      > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you
                                                                      > hold onto the original running gear.
                                                                      > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a
                                                                      > single one that wasn't gear driven.
                                                                      > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                                      ps.com,
                                                                      > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hey Guys!
                                                                      > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this
                                                                      engine I
                                                                      > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or,
                                                                      if
                                                                      > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i
                                                                      will
                                                                      > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first
                                                                      time I
                                                                      > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the
                                                                      Penn Line
                                                                      > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly
                                                                      smaller..
                                                                      > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my
                                                                      core
                                                                      > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe
                                                                      when
                                                                      > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire
                                                                      > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those
                                                                      old
                                                                      > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who
                                                                      makes
                                                                      > > them.
                                                                      > > Thanks, Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                                      ps.com,
                                                                      > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                      > > wrote:
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > > > Hey Guys...
                                                                      > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                      Diesel. I
                                                                      > > just
                                                                      > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am
                                                                      right
                                                                      > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven
                                                                      like
                                                                      > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I
                                                                      just
                                                                      > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in
                                                                      pieces and
                                                                      > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to
                                                                      figure
                                                                      > > out
                                                                      > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a
                                                                      strip
                                                                      > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it
                                                                      spinning in
                                                                      > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight
                                                                      enough
                                                                      > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                      > > > Nice little engine though...
                                                                      > > > Sean
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > _____
                                                                      >
                                                                      > It's here! Your new message!
                                                                      > Get new
                                                                      >
                                                                      <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http:/tools.search.yahoo.com/toolba
                                                                      r/feat
                                                                      > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2453 From: sean naylor Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                      Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements.. I have to ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of knowing if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my engines.
                                                                       
                                                                      1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO scale feet exactly.
                                                                      2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the inside edge to the inside edge of each engine)  (light = just to the left edge of the ruler mark  & Heavy = just to the right of the mark)
                                                                      3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on each, exactly.
                                                                      4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different.
                                                                      5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the inside edge of the tank on the other side.
                                                                          6' - 6" heavy on the green engine
                                                                          6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line...
                                                                      Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner...
                                                                       
                                                                      oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked...
                                                                      Sean
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                      a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                      Hello Chuck,
                                                                      By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful thinking
                                                                      on my part. Thanks, sean

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@. ..>
                                                                      wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Sean,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the
                                                                      photos 19 to
                                                                      > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn
                                                                      Line,
                                                                      > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just
                                                                      too many
                                                                      > differences, to the point that the similarities are there because
                                                                      it is a
                                                                      > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your
                                                                      headlight,
                                                                      > nice touch. Just my two cents.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Take care.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                                      > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > _____
                                                                      >
                                                                      > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com]
                                                                      On Behalf
                                                                      > Of sean naylor
                                                                      > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM
                                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                      > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line
                                                                      Mini
                                                                      > Diesel.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hey Joe,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the
                                                                      > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not
                                                                      apear to be
                                                                      > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into
                                                                      place bu a
                                                                      > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and
                                                                      the
                                                                      > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the
                                                                      > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add
                                                                      gears, but
                                                                      > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no
                                                                      tabs to
                                                                      > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the
                                                                      same worm
                                                                      > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis
                                                                      openings (on
                                                                      > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The
                                                                      other
                                                                      > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud
                                                                      and the
                                                                      > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is
                                                                      also
                                                                      > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare
                                                                      with no
                                                                      > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded
                                                                      opening
                                                                      > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect
                                                                      that snce
                                                                      > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because
                                                                      it came
                                                                      > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight.
                                                                      My
                                                                      > headlight works, by the way.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Thanks,
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hi;
                                                                      > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO
                                                                      > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland
                                                                      > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one
                                                                      > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks
                                                                      > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels
                                                                      > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the
                                                                      > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers.
                                                                      > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to
                                                                      > well to running around the layout in the same direction
                                                                      > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into
                                                                      > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a
                                                                      > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it
                                                                      > had been running in.
                                                                      > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might
                                                                      > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring"
                                                                      > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor
                                                                      > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at
                                                                      > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you
                                                                      > hold onto the original running gear.
                                                                      > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a
                                                                      > single one that wasn't gear driven.
                                                                      > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                                                      ps.com,
                                                                      > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ >
                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hey Guys!
                                                                      > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this
                                                                      engine I
                                                                      > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or,
                                                                      if
                                                                      > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i
                                                                      will
                                                                      > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first
                                                                      time I
                                                                      > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the
                                                                      Penn Line
                                                                      > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly
                                                                      smaller..
                                                                      > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my
                                                                      core
                                                                      > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe
                                                                      when
                                                                      > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire
                                                                      > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those
                                                                      old
                                                                      > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who
                                                                      makes
                                                                      > > them.
                                                                      > > Thanks, Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                                                      ps.com,
                                                                      > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ >
                                                                      > > wrote:
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > > > Hey Guys...
                                                                      > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                      Diesel. I
                                                                      > > just
                                                                      > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am
                                                                      right
                                                                      > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven
                                                                      like
                                                                      > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I
                                                                      just
                                                                      > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in
                                                                      pieces and
                                                                      > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to
                                                                      figure
                                                                      > > out
                                                                      > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a
                                                                      strip
                                                                      > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it
                                                                      spinning in
                                                                      > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight
                                                                      enough
                                                                      > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                      > > > Nice little engine though...
                                                                      > > > Sean
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > _____
                                                                      >
                                                                      > It's here! Your new message!
                                                                      > Get new
                                                                      >
                                                                      <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49938/ *http:/tools. search.yahoo. com/toolba
                                                                      r/feat
                                                                      > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                                                      >



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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2454 From: curmudgeon Date: 1/31/2007
                                                                      Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
                                                                      Then something is wrong with your photos, because the tanks are at
                                                                      the edge if not over the edge of the running board and the overall
                                                                      length isndie the pilot steps looks to be 1/8" shorter.
                                                                      Don't give H0 readings off a scale rule.
                                                                      Get a set of dial calipers and read it like that.
                                                                      Inside of the tanks is not the measurement, the outside is.
                                                                      What is the width (in inchs) of the runing boards, side-to-side?
                                                                      The width of the tanks, outside to outside>
                                                                      The inside measurement of the pilot steps, from edge to edge?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements.. I have to
                                                                      ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of
                                                                      knowing if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my
                                                                      engines.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO
                                                                      scale feet exactly.
                                                                      > 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the
                                                                      inside edge to the inside edge of each engine) (light = just to the
                                                                      left edge of the ruler mark & Heavy = just to the right of the
                                                                      mark)
                                                                      > 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on
                                                                      each, exactly.
                                                                      > 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different.
                                                                      > 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside
                                                                      edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the
                                                                      inside edge of the tank on the other side.
                                                                      > 6' - 6" heavy on the green engine
                                                                      > 6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line...
                                                                      > Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The
                                                                      confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner...
                                                                      >
                                                                      > oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked...
                                                                      > Sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                      > Hello Chuck,
                                                                      > By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful
                                                                      thinking
                                                                      > on my part. Thanks, sean
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@>
                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Sean,
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the
                                                                      > photos 19 to
                                                                      > > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn
                                                                      > Line,
                                                                      > > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just
                                                                      > too many
                                                                      > > differences, to the point that the similarities are there
                                                                      because
                                                                      > it is a
                                                                      > > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your
                                                                      > headlight,
                                                                      > > nice touch. Just my two cents.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Take care.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                                      > > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > _____
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                      > On Behalf
                                                                      > > Of sean naylor
                                                                      > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM
                                                                      > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn
                                                                      Line
                                                                      > Mini
                                                                      > > Diesel.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hey Joe,
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of
                                                                      the
                                                                      > > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not
                                                                      > apear to be
                                                                      > > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into
                                                                      > place bu a
                                                                      > > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis
                                                                      and
                                                                      > the
                                                                      > > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from
                                                                      the
                                                                      > > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and
                                                                      add
                                                                      > gears, but
                                                                      > > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no
                                                                      > tabs to
                                                                      > > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the
                                                                      > same worm
                                                                      > > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis
                                                                      > openings (on
                                                                      > > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical.
                                                                      The
                                                                      > other
                                                                      > > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud
                                                                      > and the
                                                                      > > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor
                                                                      is
                                                                      > also
                                                                      > > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare
                                                                      > with no
                                                                      > > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded
                                                                      > opening
                                                                      > > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect
                                                                      > that snce
                                                                      > > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to
                                                                      because
                                                                      > it came
                                                                      > > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed
                                                                      headlight.
                                                                      > My
                                                                      > > headlight works, by the way.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Thanks,
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Sean
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > oljoeoh <oljoe@> wrote:
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > Hi;
                                                                      > > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO
                                                                      > > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland
                                                                      > > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one
                                                                      > > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks
                                                                      > > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels
                                                                      > > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the
                                                                      > > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers.
                                                                      > > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to
                                                                      > > well to running around the layout in the same direction
                                                                      > > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into
                                                                      > > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a
                                                                      > > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it
                                                                      > > had been running in.
                                                                      > > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might
                                                                      > > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring"
                                                                      > > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor
                                                                      > > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at
                                                                      > > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you
                                                                      > > hold onto the original running gear.
                                                                      > > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a
                                                                      > > single one that wasn't gear driven.
                                                                      > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                                      > ps.com,
                                                                      > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                      > > wrote:
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > > > Hey Guys!
                                                                      > > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this
                                                                      > engine I
                                                                      > > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks.
                                                                      Or,
                                                                      > if
                                                                      > > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i
                                                                      > will
                                                                      > > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the
                                                                      first
                                                                      > time I
                                                                      > > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the
                                                                      > Penn Line
                                                                      > > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly
                                                                      > smaller..
                                                                      > > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my
                                                                      > core
                                                                      > > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill
                                                                      maybe
                                                                      > when
                                                                      > > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my
                                                                      entire
                                                                      > > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those
                                                                      > old
                                                                      > > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or
                                                                      who
                                                                      > makes
                                                                      > > > them.
                                                                      > > > Thanks, Sean
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%
                                                                      40yahoogroups.com>
                                                                      > ps.com,
                                                                      > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                      > > > wrote:
                                                                      > > > >
                                                                      > > > > Hey Guys...
                                                                      > > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                      > Diesel. I
                                                                      > > > just
                                                                      > > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I
                                                                      am
                                                                      > right
                                                                      > > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear
                                                                      driven
                                                                      > like
                                                                      > > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare.
                                                                      I
                                                                      > just
                                                                      > > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in
                                                                      > pieces and
                                                                      > > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to
                                                                      > figure
                                                                      > > > out
                                                                      > > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to
                                                                      slip a
                                                                      > strip
                                                                      > > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it
                                                                      > spinning in
                                                                      > > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not
                                                                      tight
                                                                      > enough
                                                                      > > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                      > > > > Nice little engine though...
                                                                      > > > > Sean
                                                                      > > > >
                                                                      > > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > _____
                                                                      > >
                                                                      > > It's here! Your new message!
                                                                      > > Get new
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http:/tools.search.yahoo.com/toolb
                                                                      a
                                                                      > r/feat
                                                                      > > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                                                      > >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                      > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                      > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2455 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                      Subject: Another "rescue"
                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                        The latest piece from that box of "stuff" I got a couple weeks ago that had
                                                                        the Dockside & the Booster in it.

                                                                        This one an Ulrich (probably the nicest piece in the box), needed a complete
                                                                        reassembly and new paint and decals, so it's now part of the "Milwaukee
                                                                        Northern" roster.

                                                                        Don

                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                        Owner-Moderator
                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                        Co-moderator
                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2456 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: New poll for vintageHO
                                                                        Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                        vintageHO group:

                                                                        Help choose the cover photo for the next few months.
                                                                        Look at the photo album "a contest" then enter your vote for the picture you want to see on our home page.
                                                                        Voting will be open through February 28, 2007

                                                                        o Li'l Joe
                                                                        o Vintage Switching
                                                                        o Walthers Baltic
                                                                        o Engine House Scene


                                                                        To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/surveys?id=2140175

                                                                        Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                        not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                        web site listed above.

                                                                        Thanks!
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2457 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Another "rescue"
                                                                        Hey Don,
                                                                        Hey! I have a couple of those! They do not look nearly that good! When you are done with your stuff, I am going to need you to come over to my junkyard and work on some of my stuff...
                                                                        Sean

                                                                        Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                        The latest piece from that box of "stuff" I got a couple weeks ago that had
                                                                        the Dockside & the Booster in it.

                                                                        This one an Ulrich (probably the nicest piece in the box), needed a complete
                                                                        reassembly and new paint and decals, so it's now part of the "Milwaukee
                                                                        Northern" roster.

                                                                        Don

                                                                        don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                        http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                        Owner-Moderator
                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                        Co-moderator
                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY


                                                                        8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                                                                        with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2458 From: John Hagen Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: new poll for VintageHO

                                                                        Oh crap, couldn’t you make it a bit easier? They are all great shots. Lets see now, how does that go; eenie, weenee, min….

                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2459 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                        Hey Joe,
                                                                        I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor - pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder.
                                                                         
                                                                        I have a cheap caliper I will use to take some measurements later tonight. Some of the measurements asked of me to take, I already know are different.  The thing I have noticed is that the Green weenie seems to be a carve engine, maybe from one block, where as rhe Whitcomb seems to be an assembled engine that was then cast. Features of the engines strengthen this theory of mine... The coupler boxes, the hood side doors, the sand dome, the radiator grill. All these features seem to be carved or pressed into (grill) the greenie, where as the Whitcomb seems to have had them machined and then added prior to casting.
                                                                        Later!
                                                                        Sean

                                                                        curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                        Then something is wrong with your photos, because the tanks are at
                                                                        the edge if not over the edge of the running board and the overall
                                                                        length isndie the pilot steps looks to be 1/8" shorter.
                                                                        Don't give H0 readings off a scale rule.
                                                                        Get a set of dial calipers and read it like that.
                                                                        Inside of the tanks is not the measurement, the outside is.
                                                                        What is the width (in inchs) of the runing boards, side-to-side?
                                                                        The width of the tanks, outside to outside>
                                                                        The inside measurement of the pilot steps, from edge to edge?
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements. . I have to
                                                                        ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of
                                                                        knowing if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my
                                                                        engines.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > 1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO
                                                                        scale feet exactly.
                                                                        > 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the
                                                                        inside edge to the inside edge of each engine) (light = just to the
                                                                        left edge of the ruler mark & Heavy = just to the right of the
                                                                        mark)
                                                                        > 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on
                                                                        each, exactly.
                                                                        > 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different.
                                                                        > 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside
                                                                        edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the
                                                                        inside edge of the tank on the other side.
                                                                        > 6' - 6" heavy on the green engine
                                                                        > 6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line...
                                                                        > Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The
                                                                        confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner...
                                                                        >
                                                                        > oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked...
                                                                        > Sean
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                        > Hello Chuck,
                                                                        > By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful
                                                                        thinking
                                                                        > on my part. Thanks, sean
                                                                        >
                                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@>
                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Sean,
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the
                                                                        > photos 19 to
                                                                        > > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn
                                                                        > Line,
                                                                        > > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just
                                                                        > too many
                                                                        > > differences, to the point that the similarities are there
                                                                        because
                                                                        > it is a
                                                                        > > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your
                                                                        > headlight,
                                                                        > > nice touch. Just my two cents.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Take care.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                                        > > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > _____
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                        [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com]
                                                                        > On Behalf
                                                                        > > Of sean naylor
                                                                        > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM
                                                                        > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                        > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn
                                                                        Line
                                                                        > Mini
                                                                        > > Diesel.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Hey Joe,
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of
                                                                        the
                                                                        > > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not
                                                                        > apear to be
                                                                        > > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into
                                                                        > place bu a
                                                                        > > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis
                                                                        and
                                                                        > the
                                                                        > > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from
                                                                        the
                                                                        > > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and
                                                                        add
                                                                        > gears, but
                                                                        > > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no
                                                                        > tabs to
                                                                        > > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the
                                                                        > same worm
                                                                        > > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis
                                                                        > openings (on
                                                                        > > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical.
                                                                        The
                                                                        > other
                                                                        > > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud
                                                                        > and the
                                                                        > > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor
                                                                        is
                                                                        > also
                                                                        > > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare
                                                                        > with no
                                                                        > > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded
                                                                        > opening
                                                                        > > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect
                                                                        > that snce
                                                                        > > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to
                                                                        because
                                                                        > it came
                                                                        > > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed
                                                                        headlight.
                                                                        > My
                                                                        > > headlight works, by the way.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Thanks,
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Sean
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > oljoeoh <oljoe@> wrote:
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Hi;
                                                                        > > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO
                                                                        > > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland
                                                                        > > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one
                                                                        > > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks
                                                                        > > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels
                                                                        > > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the
                                                                        > > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers.
                                                                        > > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to
                                                                        > > well to running around the layout in the same direction
                                                                        > > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into
                                                                        > > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a
                                                                        > > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it
                                                                        > > had been running in.
                                                                        > > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might
                                                                        > > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring"
                                                                        > > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor
                                                                        > > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at
                                                                        > > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you
                                                                        > > hold onto the original running gear.
                                                                        > > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a
                                                                        > > single one that wasn't gear driven.
                                                                        > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                                                        > ps.com,
                                                                        > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ >
                                                                        > > wrote:
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > Hey Guys!
                                                                        > > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this
                                                                        > engine I
                                                                        > > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks.
                                                                        Or,
                                                                        > if
                                                                        > > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i
                                                                        > will
                                                                        > > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the
                                                                        first
                                                                        > time I
                                                                        > > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the
                                                                        > Penn Line
                                                                        > > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly
                                                                        > smaller..
                                                                        > > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my
                                                                        > core
                                                                        > > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill
                                                                        maybe
                                                                        > when
                                                                        > > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my
                                                                        entire
                                                                        > > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those
                                                                        > old
                                                                        > > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or
                                                                        who
                                                                        > makes
                                                                        > > > them.
                                                                        > > > Thanks, Sean
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%
                                                                        40yahoogroups. com>
                                                                        > ps.com,
                                                                        > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ >
                                                                        > > > wrote:
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > > Hey Guys...
                                                                        > > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                        > Diesel. I
                                                                        > > > just
                                                                        > > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I
                                                                        am
                                                                        > right
                                                                        > > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear
                                                                        driven
                                                                        > like
                                                                        > > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare.
                                                                        I
                                                                        > just
                                                                        > > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in
                                                                        > pieces and
                                                                        > > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to
                                                                        > figure
                                                                        > > > out
                                                                        > > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to
                                                                        slip a
                                                                        > strip
                                                                        > > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it
                                                                        > spinning in
                                                                        > > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not
                                                                        tight
                                                                        > enough
                                                                        > > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                        > > > > Nice little engine though...
                                                                        > > > > Sean
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > _____
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > It's here! Your new message!
                                                                        > > Get new
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >
                                                                        <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49938/ *http:/tools. search.yahoo. com/toolb
                                                                        a
                                                                        > r/feat
                                                                        > > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                        > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                        > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                        >



                                                                        Need Mail bonding?
                                                                        Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2460 From: maobuch@sbcglobal.net Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Best type or kind of glue to use with a wooden kit...
                                                                        Hi to all in this group. I would like to thank each of you that shared your gluing INFO with me as well as the rest of the group. I now have my supply of glues in stock. Have my new airbruse & air pump/tank.  As to one of the questions as to painting the wood railcars I was told to uusing what is known as dry brushing a model.
                                                                         
                                                                        What other paint INFO does any of this group have to offer/share as to a wooden or wooden/castmetal kit?
                                                                        I have a boxcar that is made out of brass, that I will need to paint and put some details on once it is done, for I have several wooden kits that have metal tops and/or sides/end panels.  If anyone in this group has tips, hints or any ideas as to How to... Share your INFO with the rest of us!!!
                                                                         
                                                                         
                                                                        Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                         
                                                                         
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2461 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Several questions
                                                                        I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case.

                                                                        First, Athearn F-7's.
                                                                        On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part
                                                                        in the coupler opening just below the buffer.
                                                                        The closes up the vertical gap.
                                                                        It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be
                                                                        the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not.
                                                                        Right track?

                                                                        Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a
                                                                        Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's
                                                                        left.
                                                                        I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland
                                                                        Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything.

                                                                        Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame,
                                                                        Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft.
                                                                        I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through
                                                                        motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay).

                                                                        This is like nothing in the drawings I can find.
                                                                        There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides.

                                                                        I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is:

                                                                        About 2" long overall.
                                                                        Ball on each end about .210 diameter.
                                                                        Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with
                                                                        a diameter of the pins about .085".

                                                                        Anybody got one of these?

                                                                        Thanks.
                                                                        Dave
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2462 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Hey Joe,
                                                                        > I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not
                                                                        know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I
                                                                        posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual
                                                                        Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being
                                                                        painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor -
                                                                        pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder.




                                                                        Sean, your album pic #22 shows a Pittman DC-60, & pic #21 a Pittman
                                                                        DC-62A. The DC-62As motor magnet angles toward the center line whereas
                                                                        the DC-60 had a squared motor magnet. BTW, I'm sure you're already
                                                                        aware, but don't remove the magnet or the motor will lose its power!

                                                                        One of the Vintage HO Group's members "redehaas" has a really cool
                                                                        website at; http://www.redehaas.dds.nl where he lists most of the old
                                                                        Pittmans, & it's very useful in IDing the motors! Ken
                                                                        >
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2463 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                        wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > First, Athearn F-7's.
                                                                        > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra
                                                                        part
                                                                        > in the coupler opening just below the buffer.
                                                                        > The closes up the vertical gap.
                                                                        > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be
                                                                        > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not.
                                                                        > Right track?
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a
                                                                        > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's
                                                                        > left.
                                                                        > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland
                                                                        > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame,
                                                                        > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft.
                                                                        > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through
                                                                        > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay).
                                                                        >
                                                                        > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find.
                                                                        > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > About 2" long overall.
                                                                        > Ball on each end about .210 diameter.
                                                                        > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across,
                                                                        with
                                                                        > a diameter of the pins about .085".
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Anybody got one of these?
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Thanks.
                                                                        > Dave



                                                                        Hi Dave, try e-mailing "Yardbird Trains" or "Bowser". They both
                                                                        have alot of vintage parts. Ken
                                                                        >
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2464 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                        Dan doesn't have anything for this Varney.
                                                                        I called Bowser, need to call back tomorrow and talk to Lou English,
                                                                        they said.
                                                                        They have stacks of "old stuff", and he knows what's there.
                                                                        Dave

                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Hi Dave, try e-mailing "Yardbird Trains" or "Bowser". They both
                                                                        > have alot of vintage parts. Ken
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2465 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Dan doesn't have anything for this Varney.
                                                                        > I called Bowser, need to call back tomorrow and talk to Lou English,
                                                                        > they said.
                                                                        > They have stacks of "old stuff", and he knows what's there.
                                                                        > Dave
                                                                        >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Hi Dave, try e-mailing "Yardbird Trains" or "Bowser". They both
                                                                        > > have alot of vintage parts. Ken


                                                                        This might be a real reach, and you probably already know this,
                                                                        but in 1963 Sol Kramer(who bought Varney in 1957) also acuired the Penn-
                                                                        Line roster of HO trains in 1963 which were sold under the Life-Like
                                                                        brand till the 1970s. Some of the parts got "married" together.

                                                                        Now, as of July of 2005, Walthers has bought the Life-Like line,
                                                                        and perhaps they might have what you're looking for? Ken
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2466 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                        Hey Ken,
                                                                         
                                                                        The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # " 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition, in the search to find the short, originally.
                                                                        Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at least the motor be a Penn Line?
                                                                         
                                                                        When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who onveyed the information he added to his listing.
                                                                         
                                                                        I haven't given up hope yet...
                                                                        Thanks, Sean

                                                                        oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Hey Joe,
                                                                        > I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not
                                                                        know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I
                                                                        posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual
                                                                        Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being
                                                                        painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor -
                                                                        pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder.

                                                                        Sean, your album pic #22 shows a Pittman DC-60, & pic #21 a Pittman
                                                                        DC-62A. The DC-62As motor magnet angles toward the center line whereas
                                                                        the DC-60 had a squared motor magnet. BTW, I'm sure you're already
                                                                        aware, but don't remove the magnet or the motor will lose its power!

                                                                        One of the Vintage HO Group's members "redehaas" has a really cool
                                                                        website at; http://www.redehaas .dds.nl where he lists most of the old
                                                                        Pittmans, & it's very useful in IDing the motors! Ken
                                                                        >



                                                                        Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2467 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                        Yeah, I'm still looking.
                                                                        I just now finished a brass driveshaft, pins and all.
                                                                        My real issue with it is wear. I would have thought the originals were
                                                                        Delrin or some such, like the sockets are.
                                                                        I'm at least going to try it and see.
                                                                        Dave

                                                                        > This might be a real reach, and you probably already know
                                                                        this,
                                                                        > but in 1963 Sol Kramer(who bought Varney in 1957) also acuired the
                                                                        Penn-
                                                                        > Line roster of HO trains in 1963 which were sold under the Life-Like
                                                                        > brand till the 1970s. Some of the parts got "married" together.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Now, as of July of 2005, Walthers has bought the Life-Like
                                                                        line,
                                                                        > and perhaps they might have what you're looking for? Ken
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2468 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                                        wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Hey Ken,
                                                                        >
                                                                        > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from
                                                                        the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact
                                                                        strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic
                                                                        base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing
                                                                        originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the
                                                                        electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the
                                                                        picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only
                                                                        marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # "
                                                                        3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition,
                                                                        in the search to find the short, originally.
                                                                        > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at
                                                                        least the motor be a Penn Line?
                                                                        >
                                                                        > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had
                                                                        added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this
                                                                        is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later
                                                                        stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not
                                                                        sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added
                                                                        close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was
                                                                        in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with
                                                                        the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who
                                                                        onveyed the information he added to his listing.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > I haven't given up hope yet...
                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                        >


                                                                        To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman DC-
                                                                        62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! Do a
                                                                        Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's some
                                                                        info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able to e-
                                                                        mail the guy. Check it out! Ken
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2469 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:24 PM
                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions


                                                                        >I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > First, Athearn F-7's.
                                                                        > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part
                                                                        > in the coupler opening just below the buffer.
                                                                        > The closes up the vertical gap.
                                                                        > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be
                                                                        > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not.
                                                                        > Right track?
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a
                                                                        > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's
                                                                        > left.
                                                                        > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland
                                                                        > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame,
                                                                        > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft.
                                                                        > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through
                                                                        > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay).
                                                                        >
                                                                        > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find.
                                                                        > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > About 2" long overall.
                                                                        > Ball on each end about .210 diameter.
                                                                        > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with
                                                                        > a diameter of the pins about .085".
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Anybody got one of these?
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Thanks.don.dellmann@...
                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                        Owner-Moderator
                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                        Co-moderator
                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                                                        > Dave

                                                                        I MIGHT. I've got to run now to a neighborhood watch meeting, but I'll try
                                                                        and check tonight.

                                                                        Don
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2470 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                        Sean-
                                                                        One more question.
                                                                        Is that plastic plate that holds the motor up into the body (strange
                                                                        they'd use plastic) really have a pivot mount on the middle?
                                                                        Looks like a place for a pivot, like a drive mount off something
                                                                        else?
                                                                        Dave

                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Hey Ken,
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from
                                                                        > the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact
                                                                        > strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the
                                                                        plastic
                                                                        > base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing
                                                                        > originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the
                                                                        > electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the
                                                                        > picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only
                                                                        > marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single
                                                                        # "
                                                                        > 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my
                                                                        addition,
                                                                        > in the search to find the short, originally.
                                                                        > > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make
                                                                        at
                                                                        > least the motor be a Penn Line?
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had
                                                                        > added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that
                                                                        this
                                                                        > is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later
                                                                        > stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine,
                                                                        not
                                                                        > sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added
                                                                        > close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it
                                                                        was
                                                                        > in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in
                                                                        with
                                                                        > the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who
                                                                        > onveyed the information he added to his listing.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > I haven't given up hope yet...
                                                                        > > Thanks
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        > To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman
                                                                        DC-
                                                                        > 62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history!
                                                                        Do a
                                                                        > Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's
                                                                        some
                                                                        > info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able
                                                                        to e-
                                                                        > mail the guy. Check it out! Ken
                                                                        >
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2471 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                        Dave,
                                                                        I agree it seems odd, but it seems to fit well an I did not notice
                                                                        any cut of file marks. The edges are smooth and shiny like the rest
                                                                        of it. It looks like it is a molded piece, if you understand what I
                                                                        mean. I really have no idea what the center hole is for, but it
                                                                        appears to have no wear and have never been used as a pivot for
                                                                        anything.

                                                                        Thanks Dave.. I had thought the same thing. The plastic part is what
                                                                        bugs me too...


                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                        wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Sean-
                                                                        > One more question.
                                                                        > Is that plastic plate that holds the motor up into the body
                                                                        (strange
                                                                        > they'd use plastic) really have a pivot mount on the middle?
                                                                        > Looks like a place for a pivot, like a drive mount off something
                                                                        > else?
                                                                        > Dave
                                                                        >
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > Hey Ken,
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came
                                                                        from
                                                                        > > the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact
                                                                        > > strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the
                                                                        > plastic
                                                                        > > base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing
                                                                        > > originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the
                                                                        > > electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the
                                                                        > > picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only
                                                                        > > marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single
                                                                        > # "
                                                                        > > 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my
                                                                        > addition,
                                                                        > > in the search to find the short, originally.
                                                                        > > > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make
                                                                        > at
                                                                        > > least the motor be a Penn Line?
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had
                                                                        > > added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that
                                                                        > this
                                                                        > > is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later
                                                                        > > stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine,
                                                                        > not
                                                                        > > sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was
                                                                        added
                                                                        > > close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it
                                                                        > was
                                                                        > > in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in
                                                                        > with
                                                                        > > the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who
                                                                        > > onveyed the information he added to his listing.
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > I haven't given up hope yet...
                                                                        > > > Thanks
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman
                                                                        > DC-
                                                                        > > 62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history!
                                                                        > Do a
                                                                        > > Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's
                                                                        > some
                                                                        > > info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able
                                                                        > to e-
                                                                        > > mail the guy. Check it out! Ken
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2472 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                        Hello Ken,
                                                                        I just sent the guy and email... Hopfully he will reply. Did you notice the one that ran on the silver Dollar? I think it is even smaller yet...
                                                                        Sean

                                                                        oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                                                        wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Hey Ken,
                                                                        >
                                                                        > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from
                                                                        the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact
                                                                        strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic
                                                                        base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing
                                                                        originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the
                                                                        electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the
                                                                        picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only
                                                                        marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # "
                                                                        3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition,
                                                                        in the search to find the short, originally.
                                                                        > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at
                                                                        least the motor be a Penn Line?
                                                                        >
                                                                        > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had
                                                                        added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this
                                                                        is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later
                                                                        stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not
                                                                        sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added
                                                                        close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was
                                                                        in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with
                                                                        the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who
                                                                        onveyed the information he added to his listing.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > I haven't given up hope yet...
                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                        >


                                                                        To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman DC-
                                                                        62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! Do a
                                                                        Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's some
                                                                        info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able to e-
                                                                        mail the guy. Check it out! Ken



                                                                        Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                                                                        in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2473 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                        I HAVE IT!!!!!!
                                                                         
                                                                        It was not on the guy's website, but it was in his index file... I went to the page you said and deleted the text in my address bar up to the first slash mark then hit enter...
                                                                         
                                                                        found this file... silverdol.jpg
                                                                         
                                                                        It is the Penn Line Silver Dollar!
                                                                         
                                                                        Zoom in on the picture on this page... Ther are no steps... It has a flat brass? chassis. It does have a post in the window, but the cab sides look smooth... with no rivets...
                                                                        Take a look and tell me what you think. The tank straps appear to be straight up!
                                                                         
                                                                         
                                                                        Sean
                                                                         
                                                                         
                                                                         


                                                                        curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                        Sean-
                                                                        One more question.
                                                                        Is that plastic plate that holds the motor up into the body (strange
                                                                        they'd use plastic) really have a pivot mount on the middle?
                                                                        Looks like a place for a pivot, like a drive mount off something
                                                                        else?
                                                                        Dave

                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Hey Ken,
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from
                                                                        > the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact
                                                                        > strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the
                                                                        plastic
                                                                        > base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing
                                                                        > originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the
                                                                        > electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the
                                                                        > picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only
                                                                        > marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single
                                                                        # "
                                                                        > 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my
                                                                        addition,
                                                                        > in the search to find the short, originally.
                                                                        > > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make
                                                                        at
                                                                        > least the motor be a Penn Line?
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had
                                                                        > added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that
                                                                        this
                                                                        > is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later
                                                                        > stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine,
                                                                        not
                                                                        > sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added
                                                                        > close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it
                                                                        was
                                                                        > in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in
                                                                        with
                                                                        > the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who
                                                                        > onveyed the information he added to his listing.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > I haven't given up hope yet...
                                                                        > > Thanks
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        > To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman
                                                                        DC-
                                                                        > 62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history!
                                                                        Do a
                                                                        > Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's
                                                                        some
                                                                        > info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able
                                                                        to e-
                                                                        > mail the guy. Check it out! Ken
                                                                        >



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                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2474 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                        Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                          sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                          Hello Ken,
                                                                          I just sent the guy and email... Hopfully he will reply. Did you notice the one that ran on the silver Dollar? I think it is even smaller yet...
                                                                          Sean

                                                                          oahurailway <two.peaks@verizon. net> wrote:
                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                                                          wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Hey Ken,
                                                                          >
                                                                          > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from
                                                                          the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact
                                                                          strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic
                                                                          base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing
                                                                          originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the
                                                                          electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the
                                                                          picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only
                                                                          marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # "
                                                                          3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition,
                                                                          in the search to find the short, originally.
                                                                          > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at
                                                                          least the motor be a Penn Line?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had
                                                                          added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this
                                                                          is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later
                                                                          stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not
                                                                          sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added
                                                                          close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was
                                                                          in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with
                                                                          the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who
                                                                          onveyed the information he added to his listing.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I haven't given up hope yet...
                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                          >


                                                                          To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman DC-
                                                                          62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! Do a
                                                                          Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's some
                                                                          info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able to e-
                                                                          mail the guy. Check it out! Ken



                                                                          Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                                                                          in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.


                                                                          Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
                                                                          with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2475 From: sean naylor Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                          Thanks Ken, for showing me that site.. I am convinced it is it..
                                                                           
                                                                          The more I look at mine, the more I think the rivets were removed from the cab and the stack was shortened... The window rail, I see no evidence of removal... but I could be missing it...
                                                                           
                                                                          Ther are two pictures of the silver dollar engine on that site, yet they appear to be different.
                                                                          The one I have included previously has no protruding headlight, has longer grab irons on top of the hood. No steps, and smooth sides and cab roof, but that is harder to tell from the old pic....

                                                                          Sean
                                                                           

                                                                          sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                          Hello Ken,
                                                                          I just sent the guy and email... Hopfully he will reply. Did you notice the one that ran on the silver Dollar? I think it is even smaller yet...
                                                                          Sean

                                                                          oahurailway <two.peaks@verizon. net> wrote:
                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                                                          wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Hey Ken,
                                                                          >
                                                                          > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from
                                                                          the GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact
                                                                          strips that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic
                                                                          base, are what were shorting out against the motor framing
                                                                          originally, when I tried to put it together. ( I took off the
                                                                          electrical tape that I wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the
                                                                          picture.) The plastic base is the only piece which has the only
                                                                          marking I could find anywhere on any piece.. simplly the single # "
                                                                          3 ". That is it, no other mark. The plastic screws are my addition,
                                                                          in the search to find the short, originally.
                                                                          > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at
                                                                          least the motor be a Penn Line?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had
                                                                          added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this
                                                                          is a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later
                                                                          stated..." This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not
                                                                          sure what yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added
                                                                          close to the end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was
                                                                          in pieces is probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with
                                                                          the sell to provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who
                                                                          onveyed the information he added to his listing.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I haven't given up hope yet...
                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                          >


                                                                          To the best of my knowledge Sean, Penn Line used the Pittman DC-
                                                                          62A motor. But I just found a cool website on Penn Line history! Do a
                                                                          Google, & type in "A Short History of Penn Line Trains". There's some
                                                                          info there about the Penn Line Whitcomb "D-2", & you may be able to e-
                                                                          mail the guy. Check it out! Ken



                                                                          Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                                                                          in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.


                                                                          Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                                                                          Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2476 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                          Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the best around for most applications. gj
                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                          From: curmudgeon
                                                                          Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM
                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions

                                                                          I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case.

                                                                          First, Athearn F-7's.
                                                                          On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part
                                                                          in the coupler opening just below the buffer.
                                                                          The closes up the vertical gap.
                                                                          It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be
                                                                          the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not.
                                                                          Right track?

                                                                          Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a
                                                                          Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's
                                                                          left.
                                                                          I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland
                                                                          Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything.

                                                                          Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame,
                                                                          Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft.
                                                                          I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through
                                                                          motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay).

                                                                          This is like nothing in the drawings I can find.
                                                                          There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides.

                                                                          I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is:

                                                                          About 2" long overall.
                                                                          Ball on each end about .210 diameter.
                                                                          Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with
                                                                          a diameter of the pins about .085".

                                                                          Anybody got one of these?

                                                                          Thanks.
                                                                          Dave

                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2477 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Thanks Ken, for showing me that site.. I am convinced it is it..
                                                                          >
                                                                          > The more I look at mine, the more I think the rivets were removed
                                                                          from the cab and the stack was shortened... The window rail, I see no
                                                                          evidence of removal... but I could be missing it...
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Ther are two pictures of the silver dollar engine on that site, yet
                                                                          they appear to be different.
                                                                          > The one I have included previously has no protruding headlight, has
                                                                          longer grab irons on top of the hood. No steps, and smooth sides and
                                                                          cab roof, but that is harder to tell from the old pic....
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Sean
                                                                          >
                                                                          >

                                                                          Great Sean! I didn't see that pic you found on that website. You
                                                                          could very well be on to something. Let us know what you hear back from
                                                                          your e-mail to that guy! Now back to my Manhattan! Ken
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2478 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                          Except:

                                                                          The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one
                                                                          piece.
                                                                          The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks.
                                                                          The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear
                                                                          issues with brass in Delrin.

                                                                          Let me describe what the finished product looks like:

                                                                          A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on
                                                                          the end with a bench grinder.

                                                                          About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take
                                                                          an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each
                                                                          other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off.

                                                                          The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket
                                                                          that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck.
                                                                          The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the
                                                                          driveshaft falling out.

                                                                          Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that
                                                                          will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for.
                                                                          A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected.

                                                                          Dave
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the
                                                                          best around for most applications. gj
                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                          > From: curmudgeon
                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM
                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > First, Athearn F-7's.
                                                                          > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra
                                                                          part
                                                                          > in the coupler opening just below the buffer.
                                                                          > The closes up the vertical gap.
                                                                          > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may
                                                                          be
                                                                          > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not.
                                                                          > Right track?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front
                                                                          of a
                                                                          > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all
                                                                          that's
                                                                          > left.
                                                                          > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had
                                                                          some "Woodland
                                                                          > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame,
                                                                          > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft.
                                                                          > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went
                                                                          through
                                                                          > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay).
                                                                          >
                                                                          > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find.
                                                                          > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the
                                                                          sides.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions
                                                                          is:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > About 2" long overall.
                                                                          > Ball on each end about .210 diameter.
                                                                          > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across,
                                                                          with
                                                                          > a diameter of the pins about .085".
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Anybody got one of these?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Thanks.
                                                                          > Dave
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2479 From: oahurailway Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                          wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Except:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all
                                                                          one
                                                                          > piece.
                                                                          > The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks.
                                                                          > The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear
                                                                          > issues with brass in Delrin.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Let me describe what the finished product looks like:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded
                                                                          on
                                                                          > the end with a bench grinder.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take
                                                                          > an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each
                                                                          > other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin
                                                                          socket
                                                                          > that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck.
                                                                          > The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without
                                                                          the
                                                                          > driveshaft falling out.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that
                                                                          > will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking
                                                                          for.
                                                                          > A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected.


                                                                          Dave, have you checked out Northwest Shortline's "U" joints?
                                                                          They have a website. Ken
                                                                          > >
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2480 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                          early on.....
                                                                          >
                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@>
                                                                          > wrote:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Except:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all
                                                                          > one
                                                                          > > piece.
                                                                          > > The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks.
                                                                          > > The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term
                                                                          wear
                                                                          > > issues with brass in Delrin.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Let me describe what the finished product looks like:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long,
                                                                          rounded
                                                                          > on
                                                                          > > the end with a bench grinder.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to
                                                                          take
                                                                          > > an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from
                                                                          each
                                                                          > > other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin
                                                                          > socket
                                                                          > > that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck.
                                                                          > > The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without
                                                                          > the
                                                                          > > driveshaft falling out.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that
                                                                          > > will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking
                                                                          > for.
                                                                          > > A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected.
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Dave, have you checked out Northwest Shortline's "U" joints?
                                                                          > They have a website. Ken
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2481 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                          The best I've come up with is a brochure on hoseeker from 1965.
                                                                          On page 1 is the "A" unit....UP, single horn, #1400 on the cab.
                                                                          So, we're close.


                                                                          >

                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Except:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all
                                                                          > one
                                                                          > > piece.
                                                                          > > The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks.
                                                                          > > The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term
                                                                          wear
                                                                          > > issues with brass in Delrin.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Let me describe what the finished product looks like:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long,
                                                                          rounded
                                                                          > on
                                                                          > > the end with a bench grinder.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to
                                                                          take
                                                                          > > an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from
                                                                          each
                                                                          > > other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin
                                                                          > socket
                                                                          > > that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck.
                                                                          > > The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without
                                                                          > the
                                                                          > > driveshaft falling out.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that
                                                                          > > will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking
                                                                          > for.
                                                                          > > A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected.
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Dave, have you checked out Northwest Shortline's "U" joints?
                                                                          > They have a website. Ken
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2482 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/1/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                          Dave
                                                                           
                                                                          Most hobby shops I have been to have a variety of shapes made of plastic. I don't know what diameters may be available in plastic but if there is one that fits your needs you could make a similar shaft out of plastic. That way you might avoid the wear you legitamately are concerned about using brass.
                                                                           
                                                                          Wobbly913

                                                                          curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                          Except:

                                                                          The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one
                                                                          piece.
                                                                          The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks.
                                                                          The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear
                                                                          issues with brass in Delrin.

                                                                          Let me describe what the finished product looks like:

                                                                          A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on
                                                                          the end with a bench grinder.

                                                                          About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take
                                                                          an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each
                                                                          other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off.

                                                                          The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket
                                                                          that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck.
                                                                          The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the
                                                                          driveshaft falling out.

                                                                          Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that
                                                                          will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for.
                                                                          A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected.

                                                                          Dave
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the
                                                                          best around for most applications. gj
                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                          > From: curmudgeon
                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM
                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > First, Athearn F-7's.
                                                                          > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra
                                                                          part
                                                                          > in the coupler opening just below the buffer.
                                                                          > The closes up the vertical gap.
                                                                          > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may
                                                                          be
                                                                          > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not.
                                                                          > Right track?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front
                                                                          of a
                                                                          > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all
                                                                          that's
                                                                          > left.
                                                                          > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had
                                                                          some "Woodland
                                                                          > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame,
                                                                          > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft.
                                                                          > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went
                                                                          through
                                                                          > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay).
                                                                          >
                                                                          > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find.
                                                                          > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the
                                                                          sides.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions
                                                                          is:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > About 2" long overall.
                                                                          > Ball on each end about .210 diameter.
                                                                          > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across,
                                                                          with
                                                                          > a diameter of the pins about .085".
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Anybody got one of these?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Thanks.
                                                                          > Dave
                                                                          >





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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2483 From: John Barlow Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                          Dear Dave,
                                                                           
                                                                          Plastistruct comes to mind as one such variety of plastic shapes supplier at many hobby shops, but watch what adhesive you use when applying it to another plastic. Sometimes, what you usually use won't hold-depending upon what you use normally. Good to check such things out.
                                                                           
                                                                          John

                                                                          Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                                          Dave
                                                                           
                                                                          Most hobby shops I have been to have a variety of shapes made of plastic. I don't know what diameters may be available in plastic but if there is one that fits your needs you could make a similar shaft out of plastic. That way you might avoid the wear you legitamately are concerned about using brass.
                                                                           
                                                                          Wobbly913

                                                                          curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                          Except:

                                                                          The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one
                                                                          piece.
                                                                          The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks.
                                                                          The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear
                                                                          issues with brass in Delrin.

                                                                          Let me describe what the finished product looks like:

                                                                          A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on
                                                                          the end with a bench grinder.

                                                                          About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take
                                                                          an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each
                                                                          other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off.

                                                                          The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket
                                                                          that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck.
                                                                          The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the
                                                                          driveshaft falling out.

                                                                          Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that
                                                                          will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for.
                                                                          A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected.

                                                                          Dave
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the
                                                                          best around for most applications. gj
                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                          > From: curmudgeon
                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM
                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > First, Athearn F-7's.
                                                                          > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra
                                                                          part
                                                                          > in the coupler opening just below the buffer.
                                                                          > The closes up the vertical gap.
                                                                          > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may
                                                                          be
                                                                          > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not.
                                                                          > Right track?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front
                                                                          of a
                                                                          > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all
                                                                          that's
                                                                          > left.
                                                                          > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had
                                                                          some "Woodland
                                                                          > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame,
                                                                          > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft.
                                                                          > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went
                                                                          through
                                                                          > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay).
                                                                          >
                                                                          > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find.
                                                                          > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the
                                                                          sides.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions
                                                                          is:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > About 2" long overall.
                                                                          > Ball on each end about .210 diameter.
                                                                          > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across,
                                                                          with
                                                                          > a diameter of the pins about .085".
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Anybody got one of these?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Thanks.
                                                                          > Dave
                                                                          >





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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2484 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                          The motor in the Penn Line Whitcomb is a Pittman DC-60.
                                                                          If you have a parts list for the Whitcomb you will
                                                                          note the DC-60 is in that list.
                                                                          Note that the armature shown in the Varney motor has
                                                                          the commutator (where the motor brushes) are actually
                                                                          on opposite ends of the armatures. I can't verity that
                                                                          the Varney motor is or is not a Pittman DC-60 but it
                                                                          sure looks similar but cruder. Many brass imports of
                                                                          that period used Pittman look alike motors but they
                                                                          were notoriously known for how warm they ran and didn't
                                                                          run nearly as well as the equivalant Pittman at low
                                                                          speeds. I had one customer that bought every brass
                                                                          loco that was made and the first thing he did was
                                                                          swap in a new Pittman motor. He could remotor anything
                                                                          he laid his hands on.
                                                                          The Penn Line Whitcomb body was always a one piece
                                                                          casting which contributed to its ease of assembly.
                                                                          As I recall there were only 3 diecast parts (body,
                                                                          gear/wheel casting, and the bottom cover plate for
                                                                          the gear/wheel casting.
                                                                          Greeny is still a mystery. I might also add that
                                                                          I've never seen any Whitcomb gearcase cover that
                                                                          enclosed the axle gears - greeny has the gears
                                                                          covered.
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin


                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Hey Joe,
                                                                          > I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not
                                                                          know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I
                                                                          posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual
                                                                          Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being
                                                                          painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor -
                                                                          pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I have a cheap caliper I will use to take some measurements later
                                                                          tonight. Some of the measurements asked of me to take, I already know
                                                                          are different. The thing I have noticed is that the Green weenie
                                                                          seems to be a carve engine, maybe from one block, where as rhe
                                                                          Whitcomb seems to be an assembled engine that was then cast. Features
                                                                          of the engines strengthen this theory of mine... The coupler boxes,
                                                                          the hood side doors, the sand dome, the radiator grill. All these
                                                                          features seem to be carved or pressed into (grill) the greenie, where
                                                                          as the Whitcomb seems to have had them machined and then added prior
                                                                          to casting.
                                                                          > Later!
                                                                          > Sean
                                                                          >
                                                                          > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                          > Then something is wrong with your photos, because the
                                                                          tanks are at
                                                                          > the edge if not over the edge of the running board and the overall
                                                                          > length isndie the pilot steps looks to be 1/8" shorter.
                                                                          > Don't give H0 readings off a scale rule.
                                                                          > Get a set of dial calipers and read it like that.
                                                                          > Inside of the tanks is not the measurement, the outside is.
                                                                          > What is the width (in inchs) of the runing boards, side-to-side?
                                                                          > The width of the tanks, outside to outside>
                                                                          > The inside measurement of the pilot steps, from edge to edge?
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements.. I have to
                                                                          > ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of
                                                                          > knowing if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my
                                                                          > engines.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > 1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO
                                                                          > scale feet exactly.
                                                                          > > 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the
                                                                          > inside edge to the inside edge of each engine) (light = just to the
                                                                          > left edge of the ruler mark & Heavy = just to the right of the
                                                                          > mark)
                                                                          > > 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on
                                                                          > each, exactly.
                                                                          > > 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different.
                                                                          > > 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside
                                                                          > edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the
                                                                          > inside edge of the tank on the other side.
                                                                          > > 6' - 6" heavy on the green engine
                                                                          > > 6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line...
                                                                          > > Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The
                                                                          > confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner...
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked...
                                                                          > > Sean
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@> wrote:
                                                                          > > Hello Chuck,
                                                                          > > By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful
                                                                          > thinking
                                                                          > > on my part. Thanks, sean
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@>
                                                                          > > wrote:
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > Sean,
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the
                                                                          > > photos 19 to
                                                                          > > > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn
                                                                          > > Line,
                                                                          > > > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just
                                                                          > > too many
                                                                          > > > differences, to the point that the similarities are there
                                                                          > because
                                                                          > > it is a
                                                                          > > > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your
                                                                          > > headlight,
                                                                          > > > nice touch. Just my two cents.
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > Take care.
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                                          > > > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > _____
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                          > > On Behalf
                                                                          > > > Of sean naylor
                                                                          > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM
                                                                          > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn
                                                                          > Line
                                                                          > > Mini
                                                                          > > > Diesel.
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > Hey Joe,
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of
                                                                          > the
                                                                          > > > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not
                                                                          > > apear to be
                                                                          > > > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into
                                                                          > > place bu a
                                                                          > > > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis
                                                                          > and
                                                                          > > the
                                                                          > > > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from
                                                                          > the
                                                                          > > > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and
                                                                          > add
                                                                          > > gears, but
                                                                          > > > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no
                                                                          > > tabs to
                                                                          > > > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the
                                                                          > > same worm
                                                                          > > > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis
                                                                          > > openings (on
                                                                          > > > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical.
                                                                          > The
                                                                          > > other
                                                                          > > > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud
                                                                          > > and the
                                                                          > > > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor
                                                                          > is
                                                                          > > also
                                                                          > > > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare
                                                                          > > with no
                                                                          > > > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded
                                                                          > > opening
                                                                          > > > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect
                                                                          > > that snce
                                                                          > > > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to
                                                                          > because
                                                                          > > it came
                                                                          > > > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed
                                                                          > headlight.
                                                                          > > My
                                                                          > > > headlight works, by the way.
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > Thanks,
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > Sean
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > oljoeoh <oljoe@> wrote:
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > Hi;
                                                                          > > > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO
                                                                          > > > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland
                                                                          > > > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one
                                                                          > > > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks
                                                                          > > > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels
                                                                          > > > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the
                                                                          > > > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers.
                                                                          > > > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to
                                                                          > > > well to running around the layout in the same direction
                                                                          > > > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into
                                                                          > > > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a
                                                                          > > > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it
                                                                          > > > had been running in.
                                                                          > > > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might
                                                                          > > > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring"
                                                                          > > > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor
                                                                          > > > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at
                                                                          > > > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you
                                                                          > > > hold onto the original running gear.
                                                                          > > > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a
                                                                          > > > single one that wasn't gear driven.
                                                                          > > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                                          > > ps.com,
                                                                          > > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                          > > > wrote:
                                                                          > > > >
                                                                          > > > > Hey Guys!
                                                                          > > > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this
                                                                          > > engine I
                                                                          > > > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks.
                                                                          > Or,
                                                                          > > if
                                                                          > > > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i
                                                                          > > will
                                                                          > > > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the
                                                                          > first
                                                                          > > time I
                                                                          > > > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the
                                                                          > > Penn Line
                                                                          > > > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly
                                                                          > > smaller..
                                                                          > > > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my
                                                                          > > core
                                                                          > > > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill
                                                                          > maybe
                                                                          > > when
                                                                          > > > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my
                                                                          > entire
                                                                          > > > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.
                                                                          > > > >
                                                                          > > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those
                                                                          > > old
                                                                          > > > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or
                                                                          > who
                                                                          > > makes
                                                                          > > > > them.
                                                                          > > > > Thanks, Sean
                                                                          > > > >
                                                                          > > > >
                                                                          > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%
                                                                          > 40yahoogroups.com>
                                                                          > > ps.com,
                                                                          > > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                          > > > > wrote:
                                                                          > > > > >
                                                                          > > > > > Hey Guys...
                                                                          > > > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                          > > Diesel. I
                                                                          > > > > just
                                                                          > > > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I
                                                                          > am
                                                                          > > right
                                                                          > > > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear
                                                                          > driven
                                                                          > > like
                                                                          > > > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare.
                                                                          > I
                                                                          > > just
                                                                          > > > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in
                                                                          > > pieces and
                                                                          > > > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to
                                                                          > > figure
                                                                          > > > > out
                                                                          > > > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to
                                                                          > slip a
                                                                          > > strip
                                                                          > > > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it
                                                                          > > spinning in
                                                                          > > > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not
                                                                          > tight
                                                                          > > enough
                                                                          > > > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                          > > > > > Nice little engine though...
                                                                          > > > > > Sean
                                                                          > > > > >
                                                                          > > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > _____
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > It's here! Your new message!
                                                                          > > > Get new
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http:/tools.search.yahoo.com/toolb
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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2485 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                          Hello Ken,
                                                                          The following is from two emails I received back last night from Frank Dill, the author and owner of the web-site you directed me to... The first email I sent to him went to his son first. I did not know he did not receive the first email and the photos it contained until I received tha email from his son this morning. His son was able to forward the message last night resulting in this first reply email from Frank Dill, but he was unable to forward the photos. (Keep in mind, he had no pictures to look at with the first responce.)
                                                                           
                                                                          email #1:
                                                                           
                                                                          "The very first Penn Line switchers did have a rubber band like belt drive, and the first castings were rather rough as the three founders did the castings themselves in single rented room over the dairy in Boyertown. I have however never seen one with the plastic base that you describe. As the first switchers were sold as kits only, it is possible that the hobbyist who assembled the kit is responsible for the substitution, but I have no way of being certain that this base was not produced by Penn Line.  Frank Dill"

                                                                          In the second email I sent I had included the picture of only the motor and picture #20 of the underside of the enine depicting the chassis located above the shell. I did not realize he had not yet seen the other 5-6 pictures I had sent.
                                                                           
                                                                          email #2:
                                                                           
                                                                          "Thanks for the photos. They just do not look quite like anything that Penn Line sold commercially. In the fall of 1963 Penn Line declared bankruptcy and ceased production very quickly. An auction was held and the rights to produce some of the locomotives were sold to Bowser. However Abe Mercer, who was the main designer of the switcher, retained the rights to the switcher. I think that he always hoped to revive Penn Line in some form. But never did. It is certainly possible that you have some kind of prototype, but I have no way of knowing because all these were the property of Penn Line Mfg. and were sold at the auction."
                                                                           
                                                                          I just resent the original photos showing the side views of both engines. I have not yet heard back from him.
                                                                           
                                                                          Thanks for the initial direction Ken.
                                                                          Sean


                                                                          Don't pick lemons.
                                                                          See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2486 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                          WELL! I think I have part of the greenie mystery
                                                                          is solved. The power for greenie was made my
                                                                          VARNEY. It has a DC60 motor and it has the pullies
                                                                          and spring drive. If you look at
                                                                          www.redehaas.dds.nl/belt-brute.htm
                                                                          you will see it in all(???) it's Varney glory. The
                                                                          link I'm showing was in a previous post on this thread
                                                                          by another responder. There is also a complete description
                                                                          of how the runnning gear was supposed to function. In
                                                                          addition to that they show several other Varney gear drives
                                                                          that are certainly different in concept.

                                                                          This info certainly doesn't explain the origins of the
                                                                          cab at all. I somehow can't make any peace at all with
                                                                          the idea that greenie was ever a Penn Line item - given
                                                                          the Varney running gear. The running gear may have been
                                                                          the inspiration for the Whitcomb but I just can't see
                                                                          Penn Line ever producing anything with Varney running
                                                                          gear. I also recall that the boiler casting metal used
                                                                          by Penn Line were of better quality than most of their
                                                                          competitors. Seems one or more of the owners at one
                                                                          time worked in the printing business and used to claim
                                                                          any of the scrap metal left over for use in Penn Line
                                                                          products. This nugget of info comes from a CD history
                                                                          of Penn Line that I got several years ago. It wasn't
                                                                          typical Zamac because of the origins of the metal.

                                                                          Now about that cab.......
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Hey Ken,
                                                                          >
                                                                          > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from the
                                                                          GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact strips
                                                                          that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic base,
                                                                          are what were shorting out against the motor framing originally, when
                                                                          I tried to put it together. ( I took off the electrical tape that I
                                                                          wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the picture.) The plastic base is
                                                                          the only piece which has the only marking I could find anywhere on any
                                                                          piece.. simplly the single # " 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The
                                                                          plastic screws are my addition, in the search to find the short,
                                                                          originally.
                                                                          > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at
                                                                          least the motor be a Penn Line?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had
                                                                          added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this is
                                                                          a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later stated..."
                                                                          This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not sure what
                                                                          yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added close to the
                                                                          end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was in pieces is
                                                                          probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with the sell to
                                                                          provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who onveyed the
                                                                          information he added to his listing.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I haven't given up hope yet...
                                                                          > Thanks, Sean
                                                                          >
                                                                          > oahurailway <two.peaks@...> wrote:
                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor
                                                                          <a69mustang4me@> wrote:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Hey Joe,
                                                                          > > I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not
                                                                          > know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I
                                                                          > posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual
                                                                          > Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being
                                                                          > painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor -
                                                                          > pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Sean, your album pic #22 shows a Pittman DC-60, & pic #21 a Pittman
                                                                          > DC-62A. The DC-62As motor magnet angles toward the center line whereas
                                                                          > the DC-60 had a squared motor magnet. BTW, I'm sure you're already
                                                                          > aware, but don't remove the magnet or the motor will lose its power!
                                                                          >
                                                                          > One of the Vintage HO Group's members "redehaas" has a really cool
                                                                          > website at; http://www.redehaas.dds.nl where he lists most of the old
                                                                          > Pittmans, & it's very useful in IDing the motors! Ken
                                                                          > >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                                          > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2487 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                          Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
                                                                          Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb....
                                                                          Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw
                                                                          some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand
                                                                          spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim
                                                                          of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys
                                                                          put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had
                                                                          one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for
                                                                          the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb
                                                                          on that. From what I understand that dome with the
                                                                          Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for
                                                                          years and it was run for viewers anytime a question
                                                                          was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it
                                                                          would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small
                                                                          drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The
                                                                          wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than
                                                                          the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were
                                                                          fun little switchers.
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin


                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements.. I have to
                                                                          ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of knowing
                                                                          if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my engines.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > 1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO
                                                                          scale feet exactly.
                                                                          > 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the
                                                                          inside edge to the inside edge of each engine) (light = just to the
                                                                          left edge of the ruler mark & Heavy = just to the right of the mark)
                                                                          > 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on
                                                                          each, exactly.
                                                                          > 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different.
                                                                          > 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside
                                                                          edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the inside
                                                                          edge of the tank on the other side.
                                                                          > 6' - 6" heavy on the green engine
                                                                          > 6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line...
                                                                          > Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The
                                                                          confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner...
                                                                          >
                                                                          > oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked...
                                                                          > Sean
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                          > Hello Chuck,
                                                                          > By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful thinking
                                                                          > on my part. Thanks, sean
                                                                          >
                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@>
                                                                          > wrote:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Sean,
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the
                                                                          > photos 19 to
                                                                          > > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn
                                                                          > Line,
                                                                          > > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just
                                                                          > too many
                                                                          > > differences, to the point that the similarities are there because
                                                                          > it is a
                                                                          > > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your
                                                                          > headlight,
                                                                          > > nice touch. Just my two cents.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Take care.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                                          > > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > _____
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                          > On Behalf
                                                                          > > Of sean naylor
                                                                          > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM
                                                                          > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line
                                                                          > Mini
                                                                          > > Diesel.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Hey Joe,
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the
                                                                          > > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not
                                                                          > apear to be
                                                                          > > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into
                                                                          > place bu a
                                                                          > > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and
                                                                          > the
                                                                          > > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the
                                                                          > > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add
                                                                          > gears, but
                                                                          > > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no
                                                                          > tabs to
                                                                          > > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the
                                                                          > same worm
                                                                          > > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis
                                                                          > openings (on
                                                                          > > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The
                                                                          > other
                                                                          > > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud
                                                                          > and the
                                                                          > > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is
                                                                          > also
                                                                          > > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare
                                                                          > with no
                                                                          > > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded
                                                                          > opening
                                                                          > > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect
                                                                          > that snce
                                                                          > > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because
                                                                          > it came
                                                                          > > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight.
                                                                          > My
                                                                          > > headlight works, by the way.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Thanks,
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Sean
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > oljoeoh <oljoe@> wrote:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Hi;
                                                                          > > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO
                                                                          > > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland
                                                                          > > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one
                                                                          > > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks
                                                                          > > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels
                                                                          > > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the
                                                                          > > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers.
                                                                          > > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to
                                                                          > > well to running around the layout in the same direction
                                                                          > > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into
                                                                          > > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a
                                                                          > > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it
                                                                          > > had been running in.
                                                                          > > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might
                                                                          > > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring"
                                                                          > > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor
                                                                          > > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at
                                                                          > > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you
                                                                          > > hold onto the original running gear.
                                                                          > > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a
                                                                          > > single one that wasn't gear driven.
                                                                          > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                                          > ps.com,
                                                                          > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                          > > wrote:
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > Hey Guys!
                                                                          > > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this
                                                                          > engine I
                                                                          > > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or,
                                                                          > if
                                                                          > > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i
                                                                          > will
                                                                          > > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first
                                                                          > time I
                                                                          > > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the
                                                                          > Penn Line
                                                                          > > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly
                                                                          > smaller..
                                                                          > > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my
                                                                          > core
                                                                          > > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe
                                                                          > when
                                                                          > > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire
                                                                          > > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those
                                                                          > old
                                                                          > > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who
                                                                          > makes
                                                                          > > > them.
                                                                          > > > Thanks, Sean
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                                          > ps.com,
                                                                          > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                          > > > wrote:
                                                                          > > > >
                                                                          > > > > Hey Guys...
                                                                          > > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                          > Diesel. I
                                                                          > > > just
                                                                          > > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am
                                                                          > right
                                                                          > > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven
                                                                          > like
                                                                          > > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I
                                                                          > just
                                                                          > > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in
                                                                          > pieces and
                                                                          > > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to
                                                                          > figure
                                                                          > > > out
                                                                          > > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a
                                                                          > strip
                                                                          > > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it
                                                                          > spinning in
                                                                          > > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight
                                                                          > enough
                                                                          > > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                          > > > > Nice little engine though...
                                                                          > > > > Sean
                                                                          > > > >
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > _____
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > It's here! Your new message!
                                                                          > > Get new
                                                                          > >
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                                                                          > r/feat
                                                                          > > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
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                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
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                                                                          >
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                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2488 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                          Hello Joe,
                                                                          Thanks so much for the input! Is this not a fascinating quest?
                                                                           
                                                                          I took a look at the site and the only thin I dis agree with is the belt pulleys and the rest of the drive mechanism. The only thing in common I see is the motor. If I understand Ken's previous message correctly, The DC-60 motor was produced by Pittman and was used by Varney. As well, if I were developing an engine from scratch, and I were of simple means, I would not re-invent the wheel by creating an entirely new engine. I would use a good dependable one which is mass produced and already available with a simple drive mechanism like the band provides. If you have a chance, read the email reply I just sent. It was from Jack Dill who seems to be some sort of un-official? historian on the Penn Line story. The company originated from his home town here in Pennsylvania. . His reply to my inquiry on this engine stated the first models were belt driven and the castings were somewhat crude. I tell you what though... This entire quest has been quite fun and educational and I am surprised at the results thus far. Thanks man!
                                                                          Sean

                                                                          oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                          WELL! I think I have part of the greenie mystery
                                                                          is solved. The power for greenie was made my
                                                                          VARNEY. It has a DC60 motor and it has the pullies
                                                                          and spring drive. If you look at
                                                                          www.redehaas. dds.nl/belt- brute.htm
                                                                          you will see it in all(???) it's Varney glory. The
                                                                          link I'm showing was in a previous post on this thread
                                                                          by another responder. There is also a complete description
                                                                          of how the runnning gear was supposed to function. In
                                                                          addition to that they show several other Varney gear drives
                                                                          that are certainly different in concept.

                                                                          This info certainly doesn't explain the origins of the
                                                                          cab at all. I somehow can't make any peace at all with
                                                                          the idea that greenie was ever a Penn Line item - given
                                                                          the Varney running gear. The running gear may have been
                                                                          the inspiration for the Whitcomb but I just can't see
                                                                          Penn Line ever producing anything with Varney running
                                                                          gear. I also recall that the boiler casting metal used
                                                                          by Penn Line were of better quality than most of their
                                                                          competitors. Seems one or more of the owners at one
                                                                          time worked in the printing business and used to claim
                                                                          any of the scrap metal left over for use in Penn Line
                                                                          products. This nugget of info comes from a CD history
                                                                          of Penn Line that I got several years ago. It wasn't
                                                                          typical Zamac because of the origins of the metal.

                                                                          Now about that cab.......
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Hey Ken,
                                                                          >
                                                                          > The pic # 22 that you have ID'd as the Pittman DC-60 came from the
                                                                          GREEN Weenie (for lack of a better name). The unusual contact strips
                                                                          that extend down from the brush contact springs to the plastic base,
                                                                          are what were shorting out against the motor framing originally, when
                                                                          I tried to put it together. ( I took off the electrical tape that I
                                                                          wrapped aroung the motor magnet for the picture.) The plastic base is
                                                                          the only piece which has the only marking I could find anywhere on any
                                                                          piece.. simplly the single # " 3 ". That is it, no other mark. The
                                                                          plastic screws are my addition, in the search to find the short,
                                                                          originally.
                                                                          > Thanks for the input Ken... Does the motor being a DC-60 make at
                                                                          least the motor be a Penn Line?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > When I purchased this off of a seller on eBay, the seller had
                                                                          added to the info two lines stating --- "I have been told that this is
                                                                          a early Penn Line Engine " then the next line posted later stated..."
                                                                          This is the 1st version of Penn Lines Whitcome Engine, not sure what
                                                                          yr this would have been avaiable " - This info was added close to the
                                                                          end of the auction, which coupled with the fact it was in pieces is
                                                                          probably why I got it so cheap. I have a request in with the sell to
                                                                          provid me with the usermane of the fellow eBay'r who onveyed the
                                                                          information he added to his listing.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I haven't given up hope yet...
                                                                          > Thanks, Sean
                                                                          >
                                                                          > oahurailway <two.peaks@. ..> wrote:
                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor
                                                                          <a69mustang4me@ > wrote:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Hey Joe,
                                                                          > > I forgot to mention... I am not sure about the motor... I do not
                                                                          > know what the Penn Line DC-60 is, so I do not know how to compare... I
                                                                          > posted a picture of each motor in both the greeenie and the actual
                                                                          > Whitcomb in "some of my many projects" folder to compare... Being
                                                                          > painted black the way it is, it almost looks like Ken's Varney motor -
                                                                          > pictures of whucj are posted inhis Varney folder.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Sean, your album pic #22 shows a Pittman DC-60, & pic #21 a Pittman
                                                                          > DC-62A. The DC-62As motor magnet angles toward the center line whereas
                                                                          > the DC-60 had a squared motor magnet. BTW, I'm sure you're already
                                                                          > aware, but don't remove the magnet or the motor will lose its power!
                                                                          >
                                                                          > One of the Vintage HO Group's members "redehaas" has a really cool
                                                                          > website at; http://www.redehaas .dds.nl where he lists most of the old
                                                                          > Pittmans, & it's very useful in IDing the motors! Ken
                                                                          > >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                          > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
                                                                          >



                                                                          Be a PS3 game guru.
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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2489 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                          Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                            Hey Joe...
                                                                            Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend!
                                                                             
                                                                            I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck - no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin striping.
                                                                            Sean


                                                                            Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                                                                            Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2490 From: jim gerstley Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: dry brush vs spray paint wood model passenger cars-La Belle
                                                                            What is the advantage of drybrushing a wood model vs spray painting with Floquil, P-B-L
                                                                            or similar products? Would think drybrushing would give a lot of paint texture? And 1:1
                                                                            wood passenger cars always had a smooth semi-gloss finish as I recall.
                                                                            Jim
                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Dear Maryann,
                                                                            >
                                                                            > You do not use sanding sealer on a wooden kit that is supposed to represent a wooden
                                                                            car. That would hide the wood grain ( and Don said that already.) The old wooden cars
                                                                            were not airbrushed or spray painted (talking of the prototype cars.) You may want to dry
                                                                            brush ( a low amount of paint on a paint brush) the car side with the desired color you
                                                                            don't have an excessive amount of paint on the wood. Paint with the grain of the wood. A
                                                                            thin spray of a clear coat is used to cover the dried color to provide a thin smooth surface
                                                                            for applying decals or dry transfers. -------. On the clear coat thing, you can add more
                                                                            after the decal dries in place if you want a varnished look. -------
                                                                            > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > maobuch@... wrote:
                                                                            > Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden
                                                                            kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood
                                                                            > Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating? For its
                                                                            been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of
                                                                            the 24 kits done...
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                            > http://www.geocities.com/maobuch/train,html
                                                                            > PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                            > See what you are saying to me !!!
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > ---------------------------------
                                                                            > TV dinner still cooling?
                                                                            > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
                                                                            >
                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2491 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
                                                                            That looks like the idea. Somewhere I have a pic
                                                                            of the one I'm talking about sans the little town
                                                                            scene in your pic.
                                                                            Joe O'Loughlin


                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Hey Joe...
                                                                            > Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend!
                                                                            >
                                                                            > I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two
                                                                            engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is
                                                                            more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the
                                                                            one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the
                                                                            air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck -
                                                                            no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top
                                                                            of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you
                                                                            look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what
                                                                            appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab
                                                                            iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly
                                                                            smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo
                                                                            appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin
                                                                            striping.
                                                                            > Sean
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > ---------------------------------
                                                                            > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                                                                            > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                                                            >
                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2492 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
                                                                            Sean.....
                                                                            I found my pics of the silver dollar Whitcomb. One is
                                                                            exactly like your overhead shot of the item. The rest
                                                                            are all different from your pair. I also have 2 emails
                                                                            that attribute the silver dollar display to Abe at
                                                                            Penn Line. If you would like I can forward all of
                                                                            the items to you at your email address - just say
                                                                            you want them. One of the pics is of a pristine
                                                                            ready to run Whitcomb, probably around 1960. It was
                                                                            an ebay item several years ago as was one of the
                                                                            silver dollar diaplays (got all of my pics from ebay
                                                                            auctions). I bid on both the display and the pristine
                                                                            whitcomb and didn't even come close.
                                                                            Just remmebered that one of the pics is of the
                                                                            assembly instructions for the Whitcomb.

                                                                            Still can't believe how this thread has grown and
                                                                            all the interesting info that is still showing up.
                                                                            A lot of stuff on a very small switcher.

                                                                            Joe O'Loughlin


                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > That looks like the idea. Somewhere I have a pic
                                                                            > of the one I'm talking about sans the little town
                                                                            > scene in your pic.
                                                                            > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote:
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Hey Joe...
                                                                            > > Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend!
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two
                                                                            > engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is
                                                                            > more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the
                                                                            > one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the
                                                                            > air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck -
                                                                            > no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top
                                                                            > of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you
                                                                            > look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what
                                                                            > appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab
                                                                            > iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly
                                                                            > smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo
                                                                            > appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin
                                                                            > striping.
                                                                            > > Sean
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > ---------------------------------
                                                                            > > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                                                                            > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            >
                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2493 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                            Hey Joe!
                                                                            Send them right over! I will take what ever you have to offer! Thanks...
                                                                            I was thinking I might try to duplicate the scene pictured in the tiny display using the engine I have. As I already stated, I think the smoke stack was filed down..that would be easy enough to repair with brass tubing of the same diameter... The window rail is a little harder and I really can not make out the paint... I would love to see your picturs... I hae already googled the names of all three owners of Penn Line and they all lead back to that same site and that is it... Other than a road trip, I think info might soon wear thin, but then again, who knows....
                                                                            Sean

                                                                            oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                            Sean.....
                                                                            I found my pics of the silver dollar Whitcomb. One is
                                                                            exactly like your overhead shot of the item. The rest
                                                                            are all different from your pair. I also have 2 emails
                                                                            that attribute the silver dollar display to Abe at
                                                                            Penn Line. If you would like I can forward all of
                                                                            the items to you at your email address - just say
                                                                            you want them. One of the pics is of a pristine
                                                                            ready to run Whitcomb, probably around 1960. It was
                                                                            an ebay item several years ago as was one of the
                                                                            silver dollar diaplays (got all of my pics from ebay
                                                                            auctions). I bid on both the display and the pristine
                                                                            whitcomb and didn't even come close.
                                                                            Just remmebered that one of the pics is of the
                                                                            assembly instructions for the Whitcomb.

                                                                            Still can't believe how this thread has grown and
                                                                            all the interesting info that is still showing up.
                                                                            A lot of stuff on a very small switcher.

                                                                            Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > That looks like the idea. Somewhere I have a pic
                                                                            > of the one I'm talking about sans the little town
                                                                            > scene in your pic.
                                                                            > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ > wrote:
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Hey Joe...
                                                                            > > Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend!
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two
                                                                            > engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is
                                                                            > more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the
                                                                            > one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the
                                                                            > air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck -
                                                                            > no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top
                                                                            > of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you
                                                                            > look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what
                                                                            > appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab
                                                                            > iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly
                                                                            > smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo
                                                                            > appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin
                                                                            > striping.
                                                                            > > Sean
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                            > > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                                                                            > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            >



                                                                            Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                                                                            Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2494 From: oahurailway Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                                            wrote:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Hello Ken,
                                                                            > The following is from two emails I received back last night from
                                                                            Frank Dill, the author and owner of the web-site you directed me
                                                                            to... The first email I sent to him went to his son first. I did not
                                                                            know he did not receive the first email and the photos it contained
                                                                            until I received tha email from his son this morning. His son was
                                                                            able to forward the message last night resulting in this first reply
                                                                            email from Frank Dill, but he was unable to forward the photos. (Keep
                                                                            in mind, he had no pictures to look at with the first responce.)
                                                                            >
                                                                            > email #1:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > "The very first Penn Line switchers did have a rubber band like
                                                                            belt drive, and the first castings were rather rough as the three
                                                                            founders did the castings themselves in single rented room over the
                                                                            dairy in Boyertown. I have however never seen one with the plastic
                                                                            base that you describe. As the first switchers were sold as kits
                                                                            only, it is possible that the hobbyist who assembled the kit is
                                                                            responsible for the substitution, but I have no way of being certain
                                                                            that this base was not produced by Penn Line. Frank Dill"
                                                                            >
                                                                            > In the second email I sent I had included the picture of only the
                                                                            motor and picture #20 of the underside of the enine depicting the
                                                                            chassis located above the shell. I did not realize he had not yet
                                                                            seen the other 5-6 pictures I had sent.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > email #2:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > "Thanks for the photos. They just do not look quite like anything
                                                                            that Penn Line sold commercially. In the fall of 1963 Penn Line
                                                                            declared bankruptcy and ceased production very quickly. An auction
                                                                            was held and the rights to produce some of the locomotives were sold
                                                                            to Bowser. However Abe Mercer, who was the main designer of the
                                                                            switcher, retained the rights to the switcher. I think that he always
                                                                            hoped to revive Penn Line in some form. But never did. It is
                                                                            certainly possible that you have some kind of prototype, but I have
                                                                            no way of knowing because all these were the property of Penn Line
                                                                            Mfg. and were sold at the auction."
                                                                            >
                                                                            > I just resent the original photos showing the side views of both
                                                                            engines. I have not yet heard back from him.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Thanks for the initial direction Ken.
                                                                            > Sean
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Looks like you're on the home stretch Sean! You've helped all of
                                                                            us here at the Group too! Please thank Frank Dill for all of us for
                                                                            sharing the information! Ken
                                                                            >
                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2495 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                            So, basically, a prototype or a knock-off AFTER PennLine went into
                                                                            bankruptcy.
                                                                            Would be nice for my own knowledge to see a drawing of the original
                                                                            belt-drives, and to know what is meant by "early".
                                                                            Like, 5?
                                                                            10?
                                                                            100?

                                                                            Also, for historical purposes, to find out what holes were there and
                                                                            what were not, fill with epoxy before you paint, so you have
                                                                            an "original", not something some hobbyist cobbled up by cutting and
                                                                            drilling.

                                                                            That's just my antique-car hat talking........



                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Hello Ken,
                                                                            > > The following is from two emails I received back last night
                                                                            from
                                                                            > Frank Dill, the author and owner of the web-site you directed me
                                                                            > to... The first email I sent to him went to his son first. I did
                                                                            not
                                                                            > know he did not receive the first email and the photos it
                                                                            contained
                                                                            > until I received tha email from his son this morning. His son was
                                                                            > able to forward the message last night resulting in this first
                                                                            reply
                                                                            > email from Frank Dill, but he was unable to forward the photos.
                                                                            (Keep
                                                                            > in mind, he had no pictures to look at with the first responce.)
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > email #1:
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > "The very first Penn Line switchers did have a rubber band
                                                                            like
                                                                            > belt drive, and the first castings were rather rough as the three
                                                                            > founders did the castings themselves in single rented room over
                                                                            the
                                                                            > dairy in Boyertown. I have however never seen one with the plastic
                                                                            > base that you describe. As the first switchers were sold as kits
                                                                            > only, it is possible that the hobbyist who assembled the kit is
                                                                            > responsible for the substitution, but I have no way of being
                                                                            certain
                                                                            > that this base was not produced by Penn Line. Frank Dill"
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > In the second email I sent I had included the picture of only
                                                                            the
                                                                            > motor and picture #20 of the underside of the enine depicting the
                                                                            > chassis located above the shell. I did not realize he had not yet
                                                                            > seen the other 5-6 pictures I had sent.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > email #2:
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > "Thanks for the photos. They just do not look quite like
                                                                            anything
                                                                            > that Penn Line sold commercially. In the fall of 1963 Penn Line
                                                                            > declared bankruptcy and ceased production very quickly. An auction
                                                                            > was held and the rights to produce some of the locomotives were
                                                                            sold
                                                                            > to Bowser. However Abe Mercer, who was the main designer of the
                                                                            > switcher, retained the rights to the switcher. I think that he
                                                                            always
                                                                            > hoped to revive Penn Line in some form. But never did. It is
                                                                            > certainly possible that you have some kind of prototype, but I
                                                                            have
                                                                            > no way of knowing because all these were the property of Penn Line
                                                                            > Mfg. and were sold at the auction."
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > I just resent the original photos showing the side views of
                                                                            both
                                                                            > engines. I have not yet heard back from him.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Thanks for the initial direction Ken.
                                                                            > > Sean
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Looks like you're on the home stretch Sean! You've helped all
                                                                            of
                                                                            > us here at the Group too! Please thank Frank Dill for all of us
                                                                            for
                                                                            > sharing the information! Ken
                                                                            > >
                                                                            >
                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2496 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: Just wanted to say thanks!
                                                                            Hey Don,
                                                                            I may be wrong, but I think this eBay listing is a Athearn steam engine
                                                                            you might be interested in... 260082153450
                                                                            Sean
                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2497 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                            OK--dug mine out to compare.  Units I have are late die cast--have the nylon worm shafts--I think the drive gear is pressed on the hub.  The ball is on the end of the nylon shaft. Shaft between trucks is a nylon tube slotted at the ends for the pins on the balls. I can't find my Hobbytown driveshafts right now, but it looks like the sockets would fit the Varney balls. Piece of 3/32" shaft between? 
                                                                             
                                                                            On my units, the frames have the deep "U" where the couplers mount. Sam Clarke at Kadee fiddled with the couplers--I don't have the number he used, but it is one of the ones that had the short, rounded pocket and the hairspring to center it. Truck gearboxes are one piece, with the wheels/axles. driveshafts/ gears all assembled. 
                                                                             
                                                                            I have a couple of spare plastic A unit shells--I'd trade one for a B shell--I prefer the plastic shells for trailing units as it doesn't;t take as much power to move them   gj
                                                                             
                                                                             
                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            From: curmudgeon
                                                                            Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:59 PM
                                                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Several questions

                                                                            Except:

                                                                            The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one
                                                                            piece.
                                                                            The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks.
                                                                            The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear
                                                                            issues with brass in Delrin.

                                                                            Let me describe what the finished product looks like:

                                                                            A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on
                                                                            the end with a bench grinder.

                                                                            About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take
                                                                            an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each
                                                                            other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off.

                                                                            The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket
                                                                            that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck.
                                                                            The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the
                                                                            driveshaft falling out.

                                                                            Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that
                                                                            will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for.
                                                                            A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected.

                                                                            Dave
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the
                                                                            best around for most applications. gj
                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            > From: curmudgeon
                                                                            > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                            > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM
                                                                            > Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > First, Athearn F-7's.
                                                                            > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra
                                                                            part
                                                                            > in the coupler opening just below the buffer.
                                                                            > The closes up the vertical gap.
                                                                            > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may
                                                                            be
                                                                            > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not.
                                                                            > Right track?
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front
                                                                            of a
                                                                            > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all
                                                                            that's
                                                                            > left.
                                                                            > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had
                                                                            some "Woodland
                                                                            > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame,
                                                                            > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft.
                                                                            > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went
                                                                            through
                                                                            > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay).
                                                                            >
                                                                            > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find.
                                                                            > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the
                                                                            sides.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions
                                                                            is:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > About 2" long overall.
                                                                            > Ball on each end about .210 diameter.
                                                                            > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across,
                                                                            with
                                                                            > a diameter of the pins about .085".
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Anybody got one of these?
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Thanks.
                                                                            > Dave
                                                                            >

                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2498 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                            OK--looked back at yours--male and female parts of the driveline are just the opposite from mine. Which makes me think that the Hobbytown balls might fit.  
                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            From: curmudgeon
                                                                            Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:59 PM
                                                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Several questions

                                                                            Except:

                                                                            The worm shaft and drive gear AND socket for the "joint" are all one
                                                                            piece.
                                                                            The driveshaft has to fit INTO the socket on both trucks.
                                                                            The one I made works flawlessly, but my concern is long-term wear
                                                                            issues with brass in Delrin.

                                                                            Let me describe what the finished product looks like:

                                                                            A solid brass rod, about .190" diameter, exactly 2" long, rounded on
                                                                            the end with a bench grinder.

                                                                            About 1/4" from each tip is a hole drilled through the bar, to take
                                                                            an .080" rod, which is soldered in, the rods spaced 90° from each
                                                                            other, filed to legnth and the sharp edges taken off.

                                                                            The tips of the small rods fit into the grooves in the Delrin socket
                                                                            that is part of the worm and drive gear on each truck.
                                                                            The slots are long enough to allow rotation of the truck without the
                                                                            driveshaft falling out.

                                                                            Works fine, but if there is a Delrin or other type of shaft that
                                                                            will not eat away at the slots over time, that's what Im looking for.
                                                                            A regular u-joint would have no place to be connected.

                                                                            Dave
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Dave--the old Hobbytown u-joints from Micro Mark are about the
                                                                            best around for most applications. gj
                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            > From: curmudgeon
                                                                            > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                            > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM
                                                                            > Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > First, Athearn F-7's.
                                                                            > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra
                                                                            part
                                                                            > in the coupler opening just below the buffer.
                                                                            > The closes up the vertical gap.
                                                                            > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may
                                                                            be
                                                                            > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not.
                                                                            > Right track?
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front
                                                                            of a
                                                                            > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all
                                                                            that's
                                                                            > left.
                                                                            > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had
                                                                            some "Woodland
                                                                            > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame,
                                                                            > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft.
                                                                            > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went
                                                                            through
                                                                            > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay).
                                                                            >
                                                                            > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find.
                                                                            > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the
                                                                            sides.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions
                                                                            is:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > About 2" long overall.
                                                                            > Ball on each end about .210 diameter.
                                                                            > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across,
                                                                            with
                                                                            > a diameter of the pins about .085".
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Anybody got one of these?
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Thanks.
                                                                            > Dave
                                                                            >

                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2499 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                            I don't recall either of those--Athearn's Hustler came along at a time that men's hats were going out of style.  But--Varney's "Record" "Little Joe Goes to Town" did exist--I had one--a steel sheet stamping about 10" in diameter with a circle of fiber-tie flex track on it.  Don't know what ever happened to the one I had--but it has not shown up after several moves.   Anyone have one?  gj
                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            From: oljoeoh
                                                                            Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:11 AM
                                                                            Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

                                                                            Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb....
                                                                            Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw
                                                                            some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand
                                                                            spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim
                                                                            of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys
                                                                            put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had
                                                                            one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for
                                                                            the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb
                                                                            on that. From what I understand that dome with the
                                                                            Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for
                                                                            years and it was run for viewers anytime a question
                                                                            was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it
                                                                            would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small
                                                                            drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The
                                                                            wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than
                                                                            the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were
                                                                            fun little switchers.
                                                                            Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Ok, for what it is worth, I took some measurements. . I have to
                                                                            ignore all holes in the green engine, because I have no way of knowing
                                                                            if they are original. I drill holes all the time in my engines.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > 1. Overall lenght of both tanks on both engines is 6' - 8" HO
                                                                            scale feet exactly.
                                                                            > 2. The band spacing on each tank is 5' light (measured from the
                                                                            inside edge to the inside edge of each engine) (light = just to the
                                                                            left edge of the ruler mark & Heavy = just to the right of the mark)
                                                                            > 3. height of the hood, measured from the top of the deck is 6' on
                                                                            each, exactly.
                                                                            > 4. Cabs are already comfirmed completly different.
                                                                            > 5. Inner spacing of the ari tanks (this is measured from inside
                                                                            edge, on the underside, accross the chassis and drivers to the inside
                                                                            edge of the tank on the other side.
                                                                            > 6' - 6" heavy on the green engine
                                                                            > 6' - 6" light on the confirmed penn line...
                                                                            > Sand domes are the same size, shape and heve the same lines. The
                                                                            confirmed Penn Line is obviously cleaner...
                                                                            >
                                                                            > oh oh... got to go... my two year old is running around naked...
                                                                            > Sean
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                            > Hello Chuck,
                                                                            > By all means, you may be right and this may all be wishful thinking
                                                                            > on my part. Thanks, sean
                                                                            >
                                                                            > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@>
                                                                            > wrote:
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Sean,
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > I have one old and two newer ones. I have just looked at the
                                                                            > photos 19 to
                                                                            > > 23. Nice detailed photos. I do not think your green one is Penn
                                                                            > Line,
                                                                            > > unless as earlier suggested this is a prototype. There are just
                                                                            > too many
                                                                            > > differences, to the point that the similarities are there because
                                                                            > it is a
                                                                            > > model of the same/close to the same Whitcomb. I do like your
                                                                            > headlight,
                                                                            > > nice touch. Just my two cents.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Take care.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                                            > > http://community. webshots. com/user/ lordon104
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > _____
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com]
                                                                            > On Behalf
                                                                            > > Of sean naylor
                                                                            > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:49 PM
                                                                            > > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                            > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line
                                                                            > Mini
                                                                            > > Diesel.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Hey Joe,
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > First off, thanks for the inpit! I think I will add pictures of the
                                                                            > > undersides to the series I have of these. The chassis does not
                                                                            > apear to be
                                                                            > > interchangable. The motor is mounted to the sheel and held into
                                                                            > place bu a
                                                                            > > square plastic plate which separates the motor from the chassis and
                                                                            > the
                                                                            > > electrical pick-up(which touches both sided of the drivers) from the
                                                                            > > chassis. I suppose if I wanted I could switch the pullies and add
                                                                            > gears, but
                                                                            > > I won't. The green one has 4 screw holes on the underside and no
                                                                            > tabs to
                                                                            > > slide into the shell. The drivers are the same size and have the
                                                                            > same worm
                                                                            > > gear drive shaft. Spacing of the worm gears and gear/chassis
                                                                            > openings (on
                                                                            > > the underside of the chassis) and driver spacing is identical. The
                                                                            > other
                                                                            > > diesel has the typical 1 front countersunk screw, alignment stud
                                                                            > and the
                                                                            > > tabs on the other end which slip into the shell end. The motor is
                                                                            > also
                                                                            > > mounted to the chassis on this one. If you take the shells (bare
                                                                            > with no
                                                                            > > chassis or motors) and look directly under the hood, the molded
                                                                            > opening
                                                                            > > edges look the same. The cab area looks different, but I expect
                                                                            > that snce
                                                                            > > the cab is almost 1/8 inch shorter as well as narrower.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > The second one I added the details, steps and headlight to because
                                                                            > it came
                                                                            > > baddly damaged, with a missing stack, steps and smashed headlight.
                                                                            > My
                                                                            > > headlight works, by the way.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > I would sure like to solve this mystery.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Thanks,
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Sean
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > oljoeoh <oljoe@> wrote:
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Hi;
                                                                            > > I'm a big fan of these little critters(I have 5). My first HO
                                                                            > > loco was one of these. I also worked in a large Cleveland
                                                                            > > hobby shop. I have NEVER seen a cab like the one one
                                                                            > > the your green example. The other puzzle is what looks
                                                                            > > like the larger drivers on the green example. Those wheels
                                                                            > > didn't appear until at least 1960. I have 2 with the
                                                                            > > large drivers and 3 with the small drivers.
                                                                            > > My original is long gone - seems it didn't take to
                                                                            > > well to running around the layout in the same direction
                                                                            > > for years. The driver axles eventually wore into
                                                                            > > the slots in the samac casting and ended up with a
                                                                            > > permanent wish to go only in the same direction it
                                                                            > > had been running in.
                                                                            > > The critter comes up on ebay on occasion and it might
                                                                            > > be worth getting one to substitute for the "spring"
                                                                            > > drive. On the ones I have the running gear and motor
                                                                            > > are interchangeable on all examples. Have a look at
                                                                            > > yours and give it a try. By all means make sure you
                                                                            > > hold onto the original running gear.
                                                                            > > Of all the Penn Line locos I had I can't recall a
                                                                            > > single one that wasn't gear driven.
                                                                            > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                                                            > ps.com,
                                                                            > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ >
                                                                            > > wrote:
                                                                            > > >
                                                                            > > > Hey Guys!
                                                                            > > > I do not know if anyone has taken a look at the photos of this
                                                                            > engine I
                                                                            > > > have posted, I would galddly email them to anyone who asks. Or,
                                                                            > if
                                                                            > > > anyone can tell me how to include them with these messages, i
                                                                            > will
                                                                            > > > gladdly. I have not heard anything from anyone. It is the first
                                                                            > time I
                                                                            > > > have ever seen this engine and I think it looks alot like the
                                                                            > Penn Line
                                                                            > > > Mini, but the casting seems to be more primitive and slightly
                                                                            > smaller..
                                                                            > > > Either way it is a verynice engine and a great addition to my
                                                                            > core
                                                                            > > > collection, which never sees the eBay auction block. untill maybe
                                                                            > when
                                                                            > > > I am dead. In which case, my wife insists she will list my entire
                                                                            > > > collection as "Buy It Now" for $1.
                                                                            > > >
                                                                            > > > Also, I still need a belt for this engine... I have seen those
                                                                            > old
                                                                            > > > metal spring ones, but I have no idea where to get them, or who
                                                                            > makes
                                                                            > > > them.
                                                                            > > > Thanks, Sean
                                                                            > > >
                                                                            > > >
                                                                            > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou <mailto:vintageHO% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                                                            > ps.com,
                                                                            > > "a69mustang4me" <a69mustang4me@ >
                                                                            > > > wrote:
                                                                            > > > >
                                                                            > > > > Hey Guys...
                                                                            > > > > I believe this is an early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                            > Diesel. I
                                                                            > > > just
                                                                            > > > > posted pics in my projects folder... Can anyone tll me if I am
                                                                            > right
                                                                            > > > > and if I can get a belt for it somewhere. It is not gear driven
                                                                            > like
                                                                            > > > > it's slighly larger sibling. I have pics of both to compare. I
                                                                            > just
                                                                            > > > > picked it up on Ebay for $27, including s/h. It was all in
                                                                            > pieces and
                                                                            > > > > it took me about 5 minutes to assemble, but about an hour to
                                                                            > figure
                                                                            > > > out
                                                                            > > > > the contact strips were touching the motor and I need to slip a
                                                                            > strip
                                                                            > > > > of electrical tape between them and the motor, to get it
                                                                            > spinning in
                                                                            > > > > place..(I need a band - the rubber bands I have are not tight
                                                                            > enough
                                                                            > > > > and slipp off of the lower pulley which drives the axels.
                                                                            > > > > Nice little engine though...
                                                                            > > > > Sean
                                                                            > > > >
                                                                            > > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > _____
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > It's here! Your new message!
                                                                            > > Get new
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=49938/ *http:/tools. search.yahoo. com/toolba
                                                                            > r/feat
                                                                            > > ures/mail/> email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                            > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                            > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                            >

                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2500 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                            That's great! and with Mantua couplers yet!
                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:14 AM
                                                                            Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

                                                                            Hey Joe...
                                                                            Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend!
                                                                             
                                                                            I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck - no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin striping.
                                                                            Sean


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                                                                            Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.



                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2501 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: Several questions
                                                                            I fopund the shaft, matches your dimensions as best I can tell. Send me
                                                                            your address offline I'll put it in the mail.

                                                                            Don

                                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                            Owner-Moderator
                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                            Co-moderator
                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                            Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:24 PM
                                                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Several questions


                                                                            >I am going to re-post tis on hoseeker, just in case.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > First, Athearn F-7's.
                                                                            > On the "A" unit, I have two types of shells, one with and extra part
                                                                            > in the coupler opening just below the buffer.
                                                                            > The closes up the vertical gap.
                                                                            > It seems the older frames (with the screw-on coupler pocket) may be
                                                                            > the ones that have this, while the snap-on covers do not.
                                                                            > Right track?
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Second, anybody have a "Santa Fe" flag in yellow for the front of a
                                                                            > Warbonnet? One of mine has a LITTLE bit at one side, is all that's
                                                                            > left.
                                                                            > I went through my stuff, thought at one point I had some "Woodland
                                                                            > Scenics" dry transfers that had thaose, but cannot find anything.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Last, I have a "shudder" Varney F-3, plastic shell, cast frame,
                                                                            > Pittman motor, gear drive, needs a driveshaft.
                                                                            > I just want to return this to my brother operational (went through
                                                                            > motor and gears, cleaned and lubed, runs okay).
                                                                            >
                                                                            > This is like nothing in the drawings I can find.
                                                                            > There is a socket on each worm end, with two slots down the sides.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > I did some measuring, the best I can come up with for dimensions is:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > About 2" long overall.
                                                                            > Ball on each end about .210 diameter.
                                                                            > Two pins or ears on the sides of each ball, about .350" across, with
                                                                            > a diameter of the pins about .085".
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Anybody got one of these?
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Thanks.
                                                                            > Dave
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2502 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: new poll for VintageHO
                                                                            Don't blame me, blame the people who entered great photos.
                                                                             
                                                                            Don
                                                                             
                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            From: John Hagen
                                                                            Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:07 AM
                                                                            Subject: [vintageHO] RE: new poll for VintageHO

                                                                            Oh crap, couldn’t you make it a bit easier? They are all great shots. Lets see now, how does that go; eenie, weenee, min….

                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2503 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                            Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                              From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...>
                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                              Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM
                                                                              Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                              Diesel.


                                                                              > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb....
                                                                              > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw
                                                                              > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand
                                                                              > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim
                                                                              > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys
                                                                              > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had
                                                                              > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for
                                                                              > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb
                                                                              > on that. From what I understand that dome with the
                                                                              > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for
                                                                              > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question
                                                                              > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it
                                                                              > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small
                                                                              > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The
                                                                              > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than
                                                                              > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were
                                                                              > fun little switchers.
                                                                              > Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                              Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out
                                                                              until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early
                                                                              50's.

                                                                              It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached.

                                                                              Don

                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2504 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                              Subject: More eBay madness
                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                eBay wasn't quite as good to me last week. I bid on FIVE Athearn "Original
                                                                                die" plastics (Reefers with the opeing doors,, box cars with no "claw",
                                                                                screwed on coupler pocket covers). Of the five, the only one I won was the
                                                                                one I was least excited about :-( (I really wanted the Blatz reefer).

                                                                                Anyway, for 99 cents plus shipping I couldn't go wrong. All it needed was
                                                                                Kadee wheelsets in the original Athearn sprung sideframes, and kadees on the
                                                                                ends, and it's running on the Milwaukee Northern.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                Owner-Moderator
                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2505 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                                Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                Hey Don,
                                                                                I have never seen that engine, but it looks alot like the Booster... I know it is not however. I would not mind getting my hands on one...
                                                                                Sean

                                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@landolls. com>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM
                                                                                Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                                Diesel.

                                                                                > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb....
                                                                                > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw
                                                                                > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand
                                                                                > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim
                                                                                > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys
                                                                                > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had
                                                                                > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for
                                                                                > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb
                                                                                > on that. From what I understand that dome with the
                                                                                > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for
                                                                                > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question
                                                                                > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it
                                                                                > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small
                                                                                > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The
                                                                                > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than
                                                                                > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were
                                                                                > fun little switchers.
                                                                                > Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out
                                                                                until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early
                                                                                50's.

                                                                                It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                Owner-Moderator
                                                                                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2506 From: sean naylor Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                                Subject: Re: More eBay madness
                                                                                Hey Don,
                                                                                That Blatz is a nice car... I think I have a couple (probably several) like those reefers with the opening doors... No Blatz that I know of... So, which are they? Athearn or Varney?
                                                                                Sean

                                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                eBay wasn't quite as good to me last week. I bid on FIVE Athearn "Original
                                                                                die" plastics (Reefers with the opeing doors,, box cars with no "claw",
                                                                                screwed on coupler pocket covers). Of the five, the only one I won was the
                                                                                one I was least excited about :-( (I really wanted the Blatz reefer).

                                                                                Anyway, for 99 cents plus shipping I couldn't go wrong. All it needed was
                                                                                Kadee wheelsets in the original Athearn sprung sideframes, and kadees on the
                                                                                ends, and it's running on the Milwaukee Northern.

                                                                                Don

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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2507 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                                Subject: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the
                                                                                repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.

                                                                                I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                And TYCO?
                                                                                Even some "bachmann" crXp.

                                                                                There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2508 From: John Barlow Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                                Subject: Re: More eBay madness
                                                                                Dear Sean,
                                                                                 
                                                                                I had those door-opening, hatch-opening cars...and mine was Athearn. I admit-I never saw a Varney one. (And those hatches were hell for a kid to get on. Doors were not easy either.)
                                                                                 
                                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                                Hey Don,
                                                                                That Blatz is a nice car... I think I have a couple (probably several) like those reefers with the opening doors... No Blatz that I know of... So, which are they? Athearn or Varney?
                                                                                Sean

                                                                                Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                                eBay wasn't quite as good to me last week. I bid on FIVE Athearn "Original
                                                                                die" plastics (Reefers with the opeing doors,, box cars with no "claw",
                                                                                screwed on coupler pocket covers). Of the five, the only one I won was the
                                                                                one I was least excited about :-( (I really wanted the Blatz reefer).

                                                                                Anyway, for 99 cents plus shipping I couldn't go wrong. All it needed was
                                                                                Kadee wheelsets in the original Athearn sprung sideframes, and kadees on the
                                                                                ends, and it's running on the Milwaukee Northern.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
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                                                                                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2509 From: John Barlow Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                                Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                 
                                                                                John

                                                                                curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the
                                                                                repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.

                                                                                I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                And TYCO?
                                                                                Even some "bachmann" crXp.

                                                                                There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?



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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2510 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/2/2007
                                                                                Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                I'm more thinking "bonfire" here.
                                                                                The really interesting part is to have been reworking all the
                                                                                families old die-cast stuff and having it work so well, from when H0
                                                                                was in it's post-war heyday, and then to see this garbage from about
                                                                                65 on that was, well, death throes.
                                                                                It's no freaking wonder the hobby went to hell in a handbasket.
                                                                                Man.
                                                                                I think I'll save some couplers, horns, and headlight lenses......
                                                                                Dave


                                                                                >
                                                                                > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                >
                                                                                > John
                                                                                >
                                                                                > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and
                                                                                picked up the
                                                                                > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of
                                                                                dismals.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                > And TYCO?
                                                                                > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest"
                                                                                and "Made
                                                                                > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2511 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                Sean

                                                                                John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                 
                                                                                John

                                                                                curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                                My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the
                                                                                repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.

                                                                                I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                And TYCO?
                                                                                Even some "bachmann" crXp.

                                                                                There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?



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                                                                                with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2512 From: John Barlow Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The shell becomes a collectible, in that case.
                                                                                 
                                                                                John

                                                                                sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                                I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                Sean

                                                                                John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                 
                                                                                John

                                                                                curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                                My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the
                                                                                repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.

                                                                                I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                And TYCO?
                                                                                Even some "bachmann" crXp.

                                                                                There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?



                                                                                We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.


                                                                                No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.


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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2513 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                Subject: Back to the box
                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                  Last night's Santa Fe reefer notwithstanding, I AM still working on the
                                                                                  stuff from the Dockside box (including the Dockside itself).

                                                                                  This flat car is a "Red Ball" kit.

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2514 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                  Subject: Re: More eBay madness
                                                                                  >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  >From: sean naylor
                                                                                  >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  >Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:34 PM
                                                                                  >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More eBay madness


                                                                                  >Hey Don,
                                                                                  >That Blatz is a nice car... I think I have a couple (probably several) like
                                                                                  >those reefers with the opening doors... No Blatz that I know of... So,
                                                                                  >which are they? >Athearn or Varney?
                                                                                  >Sean

                                                                                  It seems everybody did the Blatz "Old Heidelburg" car, at one time I had the
                                                                                  Varney cardstock version. The opening doors one I was bidding on was an
                                                                                  Athearn.
                                                                                  AFAIK, Athearn was the only one who ever did that (the separate door
                                                                                  thingy).

                                                                                  In plastic all Varney did that I've ever seen was the 36' "old time" reefer,
                                                                                  40' cars were only in card stock or metal versions.

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2515 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 12:45 AM
                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff


                                                                                  > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the
                                                                                  > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                  > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                  > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                  > And TYCO?
                                                                                  > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                  > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                  > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                  > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?

                                                                                  The Lionel FA was from the old Hobbyline dies. The problem is when they
                                                                                  lettered it they heat stamaped the lettering in so even if you stripped it,
                                                                                  the original road name was "embossed" in the sides (at least the C&O one I
                                                                                  had once.)

                                                                                  Rock Island F is a Mahanatonica, Rivarossi rip-offs, sold by AHM. May have
                                                                                  also been sold under the "AT&T" (In fact your "atest" lettering makes me
                                                                                  think that could be, "AT&T" stood for "American Train & Track") or "Model
                                                                                  Power" names, ca. 1970's.

                                                                                  You can always pack the box off to me if you want to throw it away.

                                                                                  Don (pack rat)

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2516 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:06 AM
                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff


                                                                                  > I'm more thinking "bonfire" here.
                                                                                  > The really interesting part is to have been reworking all the
                                                                                  > families old die-cast stuff and having it work so well, from when H0
                                                                                  > was in it's post-war heyday, and then to see this garbage from about
                                                                                  > 65 on that was, well, death throes.
                                                                                  > It's no freaking wonder the hobby went to hell in a handbasket.
                                                                                  > Man.

                                                                                  Which is EXACTLY why we're here!

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2517 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                  THAT is a very interesting pic of the Mantua Booster.
                                                                                  If only someone had a pic of Irv Athearns train fedora.

                                                                                  And a comment about greenie...... I just wonder if the
                                                                                  origin is with Varney because of the running gear. Doing
                                                                                  other things with running gear from an F-7 isn't anything
                                                                                  new. I have a Marx HO hustler with an F-7 running gear.
                                                                                  Runs ok but nothing out of the ordinary and very noisy.
                                                                                  Marx didn't even bother to remove the F-7 sideframes from the
                                                                                  running gear and leave the chassis naked. My Marx
                                                                                  item is from 1960+- with typical Marx cheapie looks
                                                                                  and construction.
                                                                                  Joe O'Loughlin


                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Hey Don,
                                                                                  > I have never seen that engine, but it looks alot like the
                                                                                  Booster... I know it is not however. I would not mind getting my hands
                                                                                  on one...
                                                                                  > Sean
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  > From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...>
                                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM
                                                                                  > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                                  > Diesel.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb....
                                                                                  > > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw
                                                                                  > > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand
                                                                                  > > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim
                                                                                  > > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys
                                                                                  > > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had
                                                                                  > > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for
                                                                                  > > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb
                                                                                  > > on that. From what I understand that dome with the
                                                                                  > > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for
                                                                                  > > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question
                                                                                  > > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it
                                                                                  > > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small
                                                                                  > > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The
                                                                                  > > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than
                                                                                  > > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were
                                                                                  > > fun little switchers.
                                                                                  > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come
                                                                                  out
                                                                                  > until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late
                                                                                  1940's, early
                                                                                  > 50's.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Don
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                  > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                  > Co-moderator
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2518 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                  Hey John,
                                                                                  Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this one...Sean

                                                                                  John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                  They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The shell becomes a collectible, in that case.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  John

                                                                                  sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                  I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                  Sean

                                                                                  John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                  Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                   
                                                                                  John

                                                                                  curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                                  My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the
                                                                                  repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.

                                                                                  I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                  Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                  But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                  And TYCO?
                                                                                  Even some "bachmann" crXp.

                                                                                  There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                  Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                  in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                  8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?



                                                                                  We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                  (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.


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                                                                                  with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.


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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2519 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                  Subject: Winter is a good thing
                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                    Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement.. Got
                                                                                    another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver Streak with
                                                                                    missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new
                                                                                    wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a moulded rubber
                                                                                    spring I never seen before, don't look half bad.

                                                                                    Don

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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2520 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
                                                                                    Don,
                                                                                    Would you please quit "whining" about your spring weather there, up here it's a balmy MINUS 22C with a Wind chill of MINUS 35C, at 2°F  we put on T-Shirts and go out "suntanning"...   LOL
                                                                                    Dave S.
                                                                                    AKA Deep Freeze Dave


                                                                                    Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                    Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement..  Got 
                                                                                    another one done out of the "Dockside" box.  This was a Silver Streak with 
                                                                                    missing ends.  I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new 
                                                                                    wood ends out of styrene.  Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a moulded rubber 
                                                                                    spring I never seen before, don't look half bad.
                                                                                    
                                                                                    Don
                                                                                    
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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2521 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                    Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA.
                                                                                    The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft out
                                                                                    the front end.
                                                                                    Is yours really powered?
                                                                                    Dave


                                                                                    > Hey John,
                                                                                    > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I
                                                                                    happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the
                                                                                    next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this
                                                                                    one...Sean
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The
                                                                                    shell becomes a collectible, in that case.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I
                                                                                    believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum
                                                                                    truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen
                                                                                    to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                    > Sean
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and
                                                                                    picked up the
                                                                                    > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of
                                                                                    dismals.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                    > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                    > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                    > And TYCO?
                                                                                    > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                    > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest"
                                                                                    and "Made
                                                                                    > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                    > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ---------------------------------
                                                                                    > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                    > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                    > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
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                                                                                    > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2522 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

                                                                                    Don,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    That end looks nice.  Is that a Penn-Line trailer in the background with Ulrich wheel sets?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

                                                                                     


                                                                                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:50 PM
                                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Winter is a good thing

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement.. Got
                                                                                    another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver Streak with
                                                                                    missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new
                                                                                    wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a moulded rubber
                                                                                    spring I never seen before, don't look half bad.

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                    http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                    Co-moderator
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2523 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
                                                                                    Well, we've been down in the single digits this winter.
                                                                                    Last ops session two weeks ago was so cold (and then a "fog") the
                                                                                    rails iced up and we had one helluva time getting tonnage up the
                                                                                    hill.
                                                                                    Double-head was the rule of the day (and you ain't lived until you
                                                                                    have a rod engine on the point and a Shay behind the caboose).
                                                                                    Last night we ran until 2130, had to put the Thermal skivvies on at
                                                                                    1900.
                                                                                    I think is was only 36.
                                                                                    Went through two pots of coffee, and innumerable stogies, had about
                                                                                    10 or so operators.
                                                                                    One little 4-wheel side-rod dismal, the rest rod and geared locos
                                                                                    (about evenly split over the session).

                                                                                    No hibernating in a warm basement here.

                                                                                    Dave


                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement..
                                                                                    Got
                                                                                    > another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver
                                                                                    Streak with
                                                                                    > missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co
                                                                                    cobbled up new
                                                                                    > wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a moulded
                                                                                    rubber
                                                                                    > spring I never seen before, don't look half bad.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Don
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                    > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                    > Co-moderator
                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2524 From: John Hagen Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

                                                                                    Molded rubber springs were used in the mid to late 50’s if my memory serves me right, which it often doesn’t. But I do remember them, had several sets once upon a time. When I replaced model railroading with cars and girls during the teenage years and my brother took over all the train stuff (being 5+ years older he returned to trains first) the rubber springs were replaced by metal. I don’t think they preformed any better or worse, since most HO springs are too stiff to do any real “springing” action anyway, but I preferred metal because I thought they looked better. Actually some of the unsprung variety with the springs properly painted are the most prototypical looking. I don’t really remember why rubber was ever used in the first place.

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                                                    Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement..  Got

                                                                                    another one done out of the "Dockside" box.  This was a Silver Streak with

                                                                                    missing ends.  I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new

                                                                                    wood ends out of styrene.  Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a molded rubber

                                                                                    spring I never seen before, don't look half bad.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2525 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
                                                                                    >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    >From: Chuck Higdon
                                                                                    >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    >Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:39 PM
                                                                                    >Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Winter is a good thing


                                                                                    >Don,

                                                                                    >That end looks nice. Is that a Penn-Line trailer in the background with
                                                                                    >Ulrich wheel sets?

                                                                                    >Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                                                    >http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

                                                                                    Thanks. Nothing more than Evergreen scribed styrene sheet, some stip for
                                                                                    the fascia boards, ladder, a platform and brake wheel from the scrap box.

                                                                                    As far as the trailer, dead right! The tractor pulling it is a Model
                                                                                    Hobbies early 50's Dodge cast in plaster of Paris. The Monon Trailer and
                                                                                    the flat car that I got with it are pictured in my "miscellaneous" album on
                                                                                    the home page. All I'm missing is the Ford "C" cab they offered with them.

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                    Co-moderator
                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2526 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
                                                                                    I'd seen rubber used in Athearn trucks before, what I was mainly talking about was the Micro-Motive brand itself.  I'd seen them advertised in old MR's from the 1940's, but never come across a pair.  They're one of the "elusive legends" like Baker couplers (of which I've only come across a couple pair in my time)
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Don
                                                                                     
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: John Hagen
                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:48 PM
                                                                                    Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Winter is a good thing

                                                                                    Molded rubber springs were used in the mid to late 50’s if my memory serves me right, which it often doesn’t. But I do remember them, had several sets once upon a time. When I replaced model railroading with cars and girls during the teenage years and my brother took over all the train stuff (being 5+ years older he returned to trains first) the rubber springs were replaced by metal. I don’t think they preformed any better or worse, since most HO springs are too stiff to do any real “springing” action anyway, but I preferred metal because I thought they looked better. Actually some of the unsprung variety with the springs properly painted are the most prototypical looking. I don’t really remember why rubber was ever used in the first place.

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                                                    Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement..  Got

                                                                                    another one done out of the "Dockside" box.  This was a Silver Streak with

                                                                                    missing ends.  I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new

                                                                                    wood ends out of styrene.  Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a molded rubber

                                                                                    spring I never seen before, don't look half bad.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2527 From: John Barlow Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                    Dear Dave,
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I tossed mine about two years ago when an accident befell it. It was unpainted (or in its dim past I removed the paint), but there was no getting around those gawd-awful EMD trucks on an Alco design. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    John

                                                                                    curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA.
                                                                                    The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft out
                                                                                    the front end.
                                                                                    Is yours really powered?
                                                                                    Dave

                                                                                    > Hey John,
                                                                                    > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I
                                                                                    happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the
                                                                                    next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this
                                                                                    one...Sean
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                    > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The
                                                                                    shell becomes a collectible, in that case.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                    > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I
                                                                                    believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum
                                                                                    truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen
                                                                                    to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                    > Sean
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                    > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                    > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and
                                                                                    picked up the
                                                                                    > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of
                                                                                    dismals.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                    > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                    > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                    > And TYCO?
                                                                                    > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                    > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest"
                                                                                    and "Made
                                                                                    > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                    > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                    > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                    > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
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                                                                                    > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                    > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
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                                                                                    > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                    > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
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                                                                                    > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2528 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                    You talking to me? The one I have is, but I need the parts from the powered rear truck...
                                                                                    Sean
                                                                                    curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA.
                                                                                    The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft out
                                                                                    the front end.
                                                                                    Is yours really powered?
                                                                                    Dave

                                                                                    > Hey John,
                                                                                    > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I
                                                                                    happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the
                                                                                    next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this
                                                                                    one...Sean
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                    > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The
                                                                                    shell becomes a collectible, in that case.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                    > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I
                                                                                    believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum
                                                                                    truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen
                                                                                    to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                    > Sean
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                    > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                    > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and
                                                                                    picked up the
                                                                                    > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of
                                                                                    dismals.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                    > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                    > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                    > And TYCO?
                                                                                    > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                    > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest"
                                                                                    and "Made
                                                                                    > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                    > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                    > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                    > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                    > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                    > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
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                                                                                    > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                    > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2529 From: John Barlow Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
                                                                                    Dave,
                                                                                     
                                                                                    What side of the 49th Parallel are you living in?
                                                                                     
                                                                                    John

                                                                                    Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Don,
                                                                                    Would you please quit "whining" about your spring weather there, up here
                                                                                    it's a balmy MINUS 22C with a Wind chill of MINUS 35C, at 2°F we put on
                                                                                    T-Shirts and go out "suntanning"... LOL
                                                                                    Dave S.
                                                                                    AKA Deep Freeze Dave


                                                                                    Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                    > Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement.. Got
                                                                                    > another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver Streak with
                                                                                    > missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new
                                                                                    > wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a moulded rubber
                                                                                    > spring I never seen before, don't look half bad.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Don
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                    > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                    > Co-moderator
                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
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                                                                                    > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2530 From: John Hagen Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing

                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:

                                                                                    >…….. I think is was only 36.

                                                                                    >  

                                                                                    >  

                                                                                    > No hibernating in a warm basement here.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    36? 36? Around here 36 IS a warm basement (at least this weekend)!

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2531 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
                                                                                    Just so long as you know that was warm.
                                                                                    Two weeks ago when the rails froze it was 22, I think.
                                                                                    We are out in the elements, wind chill (therometer is on the wall by
                                                                                    the door shielded from wind) can make you fingers inoperative, yet we
                                                                                    do it for 6-8 HOURS at a stretch.


                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > 36? 36? Around here 36 IS a warm basement (at least this weekend)!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2532 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
                                                                                    Didn't Athearn use rubber springs on some of their earlier trucks?
                                                                                    Roger Aultman






                                                                                    John Hagen wrote:
                                                                                    > Molded rubber springs were used in the mid to late 50?s if my memory
                                                                                    > serves me right, which it often doesn?t. But I do remember them, had
                                                                                    > several sets once upon a time. When I replaced model railroading with
                                                                                    > cars and girls during the teenage years and my brother took over all the
                                                                                    > train stuff (being 5+ years older he returned to trains first) the
                                                                                    > rubber springs were replaced by metal. I don?t think they preformed any
                                                                                    > better or worse, since most HO springs are too stiff to do any real
                                                                                    > ?springing? action anyway, but I preferred metal because I thought they
                                                                                    > looked better. Actually some of the unsprung variety with the springs
                                                                                    > properly painted are the most prototypical looking. I don?t really
                                                                                    > remember why rubber was ever used in the first place.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Looking at 2°F outside, good time to hibernate in the basement.. Got
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > another one done out of the "Dockside" box. This was a Silver Streak with
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > missing ends. I only found one SS end in the scrap box, co cobbled up new
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > wood ends out of styrene. Trucks ar "Micro-Motive" with a molded rubber
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > spring I never seen before, don't look half bad.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >


                                                                                    --
                                                                                    http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2533 From: John Hagen Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Winter is a good thing
                                                                                    Only mean to kid a bit. I am well aware that whats on the thermometer
                                                                                    and what you feel after you've been outside for a time are two
                                                                                    different things. At 36, if theres little or no wind, I don't mind
                                                                                    being outside for maybe 30 - 45 minutes. Then I'll be looking for
                                                                                    the "in" door.

                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Just so long as you know that was warm.
                                                                                    > Two weeks ago when the rails froze it was 22, I think.
                                                                                    > We are out in the elements, wind chill (therometer is on the wall by
                                                                                    > the door shielded from wind) can make you fingers inoperative, yet we
                                                                                    > do it for 6-8 HOURS at a stretch.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > 36? 36? Around here 36 IS a warm basement (at least this weekend)!
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2534 From: Don RIley Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: open door Athearn reefers. was More eBay madness
                                                                                    LOL so the sellers made a bit of cash hey!
                                                                                    Those open door reefers are cool! I have one too. Mine is lettered for
                                                                                    Carnation.

                                                                                    I also have the boxcars with no claws. Not sure where the claw idea
                                                                                    came from. The real track looks better!

                                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > eBay wasn't quite as good to me last week. I bid on FIVE
                                                                                    Athearn "Original
                                                                                    > die" plastics (Reefers with the opeing doors,, box cars with
                                                                                    no "claw",
                                                                                    > screwed on coupler pocket covers). Of the five, the only one I won
                                                                                    was the
                                                                                    > one I was least excited about :-( (I really wanted the Blatz reefer).
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Anyway, for 99 cents plus shipping I couldn't go wrong. All it
                                                                                    needed was
                                                                                    > Kadee wheelsets in the original Athearn sprung sideframes, and kadees
                                                                                    on the
                                                                                    > ends, and it's running on the Milwaukee Northern.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Don
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2535 From: Don RIley Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                    Wow nothing like a big box of crap! Those Athearn As are cool.
                                                                                    Never had a Lionel FA so I do not know if they are worth the hastle. I
                                                                                    sold my Tycos a long time ago. Sold um on ebay. The buyers were happy
                                                                                    with them. Had a BN GP20 and a IC C636. BN was DOA (burned out motor)
                                                                                    and the IC needed gears. Yes I told them so in the auctions. But they
                                                                                    both sold! Also sold a bunch of Tyco cars and even some working
                                                                                    accessortys.
                                                                                    I had some Bachmann Santa F7s. My bro might still have them. I think I
                                                                                    sitll have a few Bachmann cars somewhere. Sold one or two of um on
                                                                                    ebay.
                                                                                    Good luck!!!!!!!!

                                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up
                                                                                    the
                                                                                    > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                    > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                    > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                    > And TYCO?
                                                                                    > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                    > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                    > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                    > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2536 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                    What parts?
                                                                                    This dummy truck has worm gears on the axles, if you need to swap
                                                                                    parts.
                                                                                    Dave


                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > You talking to me? The one I have is, but I need the parts from
                                                                                    the powered rear truck...
                                                                                    > Sean
                                                                                    > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA.
                                                                                    > The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft
                                                                                    out
                                                                                    > the front end.
                                                                                    > Is yours really powered?
                                                                                    > Dave
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > > Hey John,
                                                                                    > > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I
                                                                                    > happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the
                                                                                    > next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this
                                                                                    > one...Sean
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote:
                                                                                    > > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The
                                                                                    > shell becomes a collectible, in that case.
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > John
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote:
                                                                                    > > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I
                                                                                    > believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum
                                                                                    > truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I
                                                                                    happen
                                                                                    > to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                    > > Sean
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote:
                                                                                    > > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > John
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote:
                                                                                    > > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and
                                                                                    > picked up the
                                                                                    > > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of
                                                                                    > dismals.
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                    > > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                    > > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                    > > And TYCO?
                                                                                    > > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                    > > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest"
                                                                                    > and "Made
                                                                                    > > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                    > > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this
                                                                                    stuff?
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                    > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                    > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                    > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                    > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                    > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                    > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                    > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                                                                                    > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ---------------------------------
                                                                                    > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                    > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2537 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                    That Mantua was the "Busy Bee"--the brass/zamak predecessor to the all-zamak "Booster".
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:21 PM
                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

                                                                                    Hey Don,
                                                                                    I have never seen that engine, but it looks alot like the Booster... I know it is not however. I would not mind getting my hands on one...
                                                                                    Sean

                                                                                    Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:

                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@landolls. com>
                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                    Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM
                                                                                    Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                                    Diesel.

                                                                                    > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb....
                                                                                    > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw
                                                                                    > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand
                                                                                    > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim
                                                                                    > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys
                                                                                    > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had
                                                                                    > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for
                                                                                    > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb
                                                                                    > on that. From what I understand that dome with the
                                                                                    > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for
                                                                                    > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question
                                                                                    > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it
                                                                                    > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small
                                                                                    > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The
                                                                                    > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than
                                                                                    > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were
                                                                                    > fun little switchers.
                                                                                    > Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                    Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out
                                                                                    until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early
                                                                                    50's.

                                                                                    It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached.

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                    http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2538 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                    Now THAT looks plausible--although I think they were still copying Varney. 
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:07 PM
                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.


                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@landolls. com>
                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                    Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM
                                                                                    Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                                    Diesel.

                                                                                    > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb....
                                                                                    > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw
                                                                                    > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand
                                                                                    > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim
                                                                                    > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys
                                                                                    > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had
                                                                                    > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for
                                                                                    > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb
                                                                                    > on that. From what I understand that dome with the
                                                                                    > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for
                                                                                    > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question
                                                                                    > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it
                                                                                    > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small
                                                                                    > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The
                                                                                    > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than
                                                                                    > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were
                                                                                    > fun little switchers.
                                                                                    > Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                    Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out
                                                                                    until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early
                                                                                    50's.

                                                                                    It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached.

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                    http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                    Co-moderator
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2539 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: More eBay madness
                                                                                    I recall the MDC steel reefer with the opening doors and hatches--I need some doors for mine.  The hatches had to be fitted into their frame, then the frame riveted to the roof.  Easy job if we'd had super glue then--I recall Athearns with opening hatches, both steel and wood-type bodies.   gj
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:47 PM
                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More eBay madness

                                                                                    Dear Sean,
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I had those door-opening, hatch-opening cars...and mine was Athearn. I admit-I never saw a Varney one. (And those hatches were hell for a kid to get on. Doors were not easy either.)
                                                                                     
                                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                                    sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                    Hey Don,
                                                                                    That Blatz is a nice car... I think I have a couple (probably several) like those reefers with the opening doors... No Blatz that I know of... So, which are they? Athearn or Varney?
                                                                                    Sean

                                                                                    Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                                    eBay wasn't quite as good to me last week. I bid on FIVE Athearn "Original
                                                                                    die" plastics (Reefers with the opeing doors,, box cars with no "claw",
                                                                                    screwed on coupler pocket covers). Of the five, the only one I won was the
                                                                                    one I was least excited about :-( (I really wanted the Blatz reefer).

                                                                                    Anyway, for 99 cents plus shipping I couldn't go wrong. All it needed was
                                                                                    Kadee wheelsets in the original Athearn sprung sideframes, and kadees on the
                                                                                    ends, and it's running on the Milwaukee Northern.

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                    http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                    Co-moderator
                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY


                                                                                    Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.


                                                                                    The fish are biting.
                                                                                    Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2540 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                    Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky!
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM
                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff

                                                                                    I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                    Sean

                                                                                    John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                    Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                     
                                                                                    John

                                                                                    curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                                    My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the
                                                                                    repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.

                                                                                    I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                    Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                    But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                    And TYCO?
                                                                                    Even some "bachmann" crXp.

                                                                                    There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                    Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                    in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                    8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?



                                                                                    We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                    (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.


                                                                                    No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                    with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2541 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: dry brush vs spray paint wood model passenger cars-LaBelle
                                                                                    Dry brushing gives you a lot of control over how much paint is applied and what it will look like.  It is also very useful for weathering where you want to just put down a little paint or perhaps have more paint on highlights.  It does take a little skill and practice because it is a little bit like "art".
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Spray painting (usually with an air brush) just puts on a mostly even coat if painting the entire model and can risk filling in nooks and crannies if you aren't careful.  Of course, it takes a little skill to use an air brush.  And even more skill to use it real well for weathering and there is certainly a place for it.  But dry brushing can give results that you really can't get with an air brush.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Yes, new equipment was built nicely painted.  But it tended to start weathering at least a little very quickly.  And from that point, the range of weathering is from "freshly shopped" to "dilapidated".  The more on the end of that spectrum towards "dilapidated", the more a technique like dry brushing is handy.  Since model equipment doesn't seem to weather very much, many build it with the weathering already on it and that is why there are so many techniques and materials like dry brushing, washes, chalks, techniques for simulating peeling paint, and so forth.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I suppose you could use dry brushing to paint a so called "freshly shopped" car, and I suspect it might work out reasonably well for actual wood, but less well for smooth nonabsorbent surfaces like metal and plastic.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                     
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:17 AM
                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] dry brush vs spray paint wood model passenger cars-LaBelle

                                                                                    What is the advantage of drybrushing a wood model vs spray painting with Floquil, P-B-L
                                                                                    or similar products? Would think drybrushing would give a lot of paint texture? And 1:1
                                                                                    wood passenger cars always had a smooth semi-gloss finish as I recall.
                                                                                    Jim
                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Dear Maryann,
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > You do not use sanding sealer on a wooden kit that is supposed to represent a wooden
                                                                                    car. That would hide the wood grain ( and Don said that already.) The old wooden cars
                                                                                    were not airbrushed or spray painted (talking of the prototype cars.) You may want to dry
                                                                                    brush ( a low amount of paint on a paint brush) the car side with the desired color you
                                                                                    don't have an excessive amount of paint on the wood. Paint with the grain of the wood. A
                                                                                    thin spray of a clear coat is used to cover the dried color to provide a thin smooth surface
                                                                                    for applying decals or dry transfers. -------. On the clear coat thing, you can add more
                                                                                    after the decal dries in place if you want a varnished look. -------
                                                                                    > John Barlow (jdenver4150@ ...)
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > maobuch@... wrote:
                                                                                    > Thanks for your Input as to the best glue, which to use in building the wooden
                                                                                    kits. ~ I still would like to know how the wood
                                                                                    > Needs to be treated, by using a sealer or primer before doing the final coating? For its
                                                                                    been a while since I have used or had an airbrush and looking forward in getting some of
                                                                                    the 24 kits done...
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Yours Truly, Ms Maryann (Arti) Obuch
                                                                                    > http://www.geocitie s.com/maobuch/ train,html
                                                                                    > PS: Set ur font to size 16 plus so I can
                                                                                    > See what you are saying to me !!!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                    > TV dinner still cooling?
                                                                                    > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
                                                                                    >

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2542 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Enlisting the help of a two year old...
                                                                                    Corrently at my train station (my work desk) there are about 16 Mantua
                                                                                    Booster engines in various stages of completion and condition... Of
                                                                                    those, there are seven that have had their smoke stacks filled to the
                                                                                    brim with my hobby oil. I was using it to lube some N scale engines I
                                                                                    was photographing in preparation to list on eBay tonight. Next thing I
                                                                                    knew I could not find my oil anywhere... I knew way immediately...
                                                                                    eventhough I had not found it. I new my 2 year old Miranda was "Fix'n
                                                                                    Daadee's trains". No, she was not helping and if you ask her if she
                                                                                    is "helping Daddy?" She will say "No! I'm fix'n Daadee's trains."
                                                                                    I have gon through several $4 per ounce hobby oil bottles this way...
                                                                                    Sean
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2543 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                      Hey Dave,
                                                                                      I think what I need is the plactic cover with the sideframes that snaps into place and the power pick-up strap which brushes against the drivers... The mounting tab on the plastic cover I have has broken.  If you have what I need, I am sure we can work out some sort of trade... Thanks, Sean

                                                                                      curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                      What parts?
                                                                                      This dummy truck has worm gears on the axles, if you need to swap
                                                                                      parts.
                                                                                      Dave

                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > You talking to me? The one I have is, but I need the parts from
                                                                                      the powered rear truck...
                                                                                      > Sean
                                                                                      > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                      > Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA.
                                                                                      > The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft
                                                                                      out
                                                                                      > the front end.
                                                                                      > Is yours really powered?
                                                                                      > Dave
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > > Hey John,
                                                                                      > > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when I
                                                                                      > happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy the
                                                                                      > next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this
                                                                                      > one...Sean
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote:
                                                                                      > > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The
                                                                                      > shell becomes a collectible, in that case.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > John
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ > wrote:
                                                                                      > > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I
                                                                                      > believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum
                                                                                      > truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I
                                                                                      happen
                                                                                      > to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                      > > Sean
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote:
                                                                                      > > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > John
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ > wrote:
                                                                                      > > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and
                                                                                      > picked up the
                                                                                      > > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of
                                                                                      > dismals.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                      > > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                      > > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                      > > And TYCO?
                                                                                      > > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                      > > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest"
                                                                                      > and "Made
                                                                                      > > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                      > > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this
                                                                                      stuff?
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                      > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                      > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                      > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                      > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                      > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                      > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                      > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                                                                                      > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                                                                      > >
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                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                      > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                      > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                      >



                                                                                      Finding fabulous fares is fun.
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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2544 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                      I have the Busy Bee... Mine is not complete... I did not even notice! It looked biggere to me on the hat! Thanks... Sean

                                                                                      Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      That Mantua was the "Busy Bee"--the brass/zamak predecessor to the all-zamak "Booster".
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:21 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

                                                                                      Hey Don,
                                                                                      I have never seen that engine, but it looks alot like the Booster... I know it is not however. I would not mind getting my hands on one...
                                                                                      Sean

                                                                                      Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:

                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@landolls. com>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:11 AM
                                                                                      Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                                      Diesel.

                                                                                      > Info on the silver dollar Whitcomb....
                                                                                      > Legend has it the one of the Penn Line owners saw
                                                                                      > some ad copy that Irv Athearn did showing their brand
                                                                                      > spanking new Hustler running around track on the brim
                                                                                      > of a mens hat. Not to be outdone, the Penn Line boys
                                                                                      > put a silver dollar on a round wooden base that had
                                                                                      > one of those glass dome covers. They installed a rail for
                                                                                      > the outer rail and proceeded to run their Whitcomb
                                                                                      > on that. From what I understand that dome with the
                                                                                      > Whitcomb sat on a desk in the executive office for
                                                                                      > years and it was run for viewers anytime a question
                                                                                      > was asked about it. I checked out the idea that it
                                                                                      > would work and found that my Whitcomb with the small
                                                                                      > drivers does indeed fit the situation described. The
                                                                                      > wheelbase of the Whitcomb is considerably shorter than
                                                                                      > the Hustler. Both the Whitcomb and the Hustler were
                                                                                      > fun little switchers.
                                                                                      > Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                      Close, but not quite. For one thing, the Athearn Hustler didn't come out
                                                                                      until about 1958. AFAIK, the Penn Line unit dates to the late 1940's, early
                                                                                      50's.

                                                                                      It was actually MANTUA that inspired it, per the attached.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                      http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2545 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Enlisting the help of a two year old...
                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                        Would help if I could spell "currently"
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Here are the pics...


                                                                                        a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                                        Corrently at my train station (my work desk) there are about 16 Mantua
                                                                                        Booster engines in various stages of completion and condition... Of
                                                                                        those, there are seven that have had their smoke stacks filled to the
                                                                                        brim with my hobby oil. I was using it to lube some N scale engines I
                                                                                        was photographing in preparation to list on eBay tonight. Next thing I
                                                                                        knew I could not find my oil anywhere... I knew way immediately. ..
                                                                                        eventhough I had not found it. I new my 2 year old Miranda was "Fix'n
                                                                                        Daadee's trains". No, she was not helping and if you ask her if she
                                                                                        is "helping Daddy?" She will say "No! I'm fix'n Daadee's trains."
                                                                                        I have gon through several $4 per ounce hobby oil bottles this way...
                                                                                        Sean



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                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2546 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        You mean at the coupler end?
                                                                                        I think that's broken on this one, too.
                                                                                        You have sideframes there?
                                                                                        I was going to "invent" a fix for that stupid tab on this one.
                                                                                        I'll keep you posted.
                                                                                        Dave


                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Hey Dave,
                                                                                        > I think what I need is the plactic cover with the sideframes
                                                                                        that snaps into place and the power pick-up strap which brushes
                                                                                        against the drivers... The mounting tab on the plastic cover I have
                                                                                        has broken. If you have what I need, I am sure we can work out some
                                                                                        sort of trade... Thanks, Sean
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > What parts?
                                                                                        > This dummy truck has worm gears on the axles, if you need to swap
                                                                                        > parts.
                                                                                        > Dave
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > You talking to me? The one I have is, but I need the parts from
                                                                                        > the powered rear truck...
                                                                                        > > Sean
                                                                                        > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote:
                                                                                        > > Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA.
                                                                                        > > The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft
                                                                                        > out
                                                                                        > > the front end.
                                                                                        > > Is yours really powered?
                                                                                        > > Dave
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > > Hey John,
                                                                                        > > > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when
                                                                                        I
                                                                                        > > happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy
                                                                                        the
                                                                                        > > next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this
                                                                                        > > one...Sean
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote:
                                                                                        > > > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The
                                                                                        > > shell becomes a collectible, in that case.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > John
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote:
                                                                                        > > > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I
                                                                                        > > believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum
                                                                                        > > truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I
                                                                                        > happen
                                                                                        > > to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                        > > > Sean
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@> wrote:
                                                                                        > > > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > John
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@> wrote:
                                                                                        > > > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and
                                                                                        > > picked up the
                                                                                        > > > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of
                                                                                        > > dismals.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                        > > > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                        > > > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                        > > > And TYCO?
                                                                                        > > > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                        > > > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest"
                                                                                        > > and "Made
                                                                                        > > > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                        > > > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this
                                                                                        > stuff?
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                        > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                        > > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                        > > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                        > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                        > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                        > > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                        > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                                                                                        > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                        > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                        > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                                                        > Finding fabulous fares is fun.
                                                                                        > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find
                                                                                        flight and hotel bargains.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2547 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        I have more fun up close with a .45ACP, but range with a 12GA side-
                                                                                        by-side works....


                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Ya really wanna terminate a loco? Recently one of the cell-phone
                                                                                        companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap,
                                                                                        call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky!
                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > From: sean naylor
                                                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe)
                                                                                        sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I
                                                                                        promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come
                                                                                        accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                        > Sean
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > John
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and
                                                                                        picked up the
                                                                                        > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of
                                                                                        dismals.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                        > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                        > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                        > And TYCO?
                                                                                        > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                        > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest"
                                                                                        and "Made
                                                                                        > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                        > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this
                                                                                        stuff?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        ---------
                                                                                        > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                        > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        -----------
                                                                                        > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                        > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2548 From: John Barlow Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        That's a lot of...hate! Woooooo!
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John

                                                                                        Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                        Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky!
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff

                                                                                        I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                        Sean

                                                                                        John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                        Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John

                                                                                        curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                                        My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the
                                                                                        repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.

                                                                                        I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                        Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                        But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                        And TYCO?
                                                                                        Even some "bachmann" crXp.

                                                                                        There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                        Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                        in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                        8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?



                                                                                        We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                        (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.


                                                                                        No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                        with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.


                                                                                        Never Miss an Email
                                                                                        Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2549 From: sean naylor Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        Yes... that is the one....
                                                                                        Sean

                                                                                        curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                        You mean at the coupler end?
                                                                                        I think that's broken on this one, too.
                                                                                        You have sideframes there?
                                                                                        I was going to "invent" a fix for that stupid tab on this one.
                                                                                        I'll keep you posted.
                                                                                        Dave

                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Hey Dave,
                                                                                        > I think what I need is the plactic cover with the sideframes
                                                                                        that snaps into place and the power pick-up strap which brushes
                                                                                        against the drivers... The mounting tab on the plastic cover I have
                                                                                        has broken. If you have what I need, I am sure we can work out some
                                                                                        sort of trade... Thanks, Sean
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                        > What parts?
                                                                                        > This dummy truck has worm gears on the axles, if you need to swap
                                                                                        > parts.
                                                                                        > Dave
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > You talking to me? The one I have is, but I need the parts from
                                                                                        > the powered rear truck...
                                                                                        > > Sean
                                                                                        > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ > wrote:
                                                                                        > > Uh, I just went through this Lionel FA.
                                                                                        > > The rear truck only is powered, the motor does not have a shaft
                                                                                        > out
                                                                                        > > the front end.
                                                                                        > > Is yours really powered?
                                                                                        > > Dave
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > > Hey John,
                                                                                        > > > Yeah... I know, That is why I said I would fix it for him when
                                                                                        I
                                                                                        > > happened upon the parts. I have been half tempted to just buy
                                                                                        the
                                                                                        > > next one I see and give it to him, so I can get rid of this
                                                                                        > > one...Sean
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote:
                                                                                        > > > They did a BiCentennial scheme in 1976-I believe. The
                                                                                        > > shell becomes a collectible, in that case.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > John
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ > wrote:
                                                                                        > > > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I
                                                                                        > > believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum
                                                                                        > > truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I
                                                                                        > happen
                                                                                        > > to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                        > > > Sean
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ > wrote:
                                                                                        > > > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > John
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ > wrote:
                                                                                        > > > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and
                                                                                        > > picked up the
                                                                                        > > > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of
                                                                                        > > dismals.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                        > > > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                        > > > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                        > > > And TYCO?
                                                                                        > > > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                        > > > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest"
                                                                                        > > and "Made
                                                                                        > > > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                        > > > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this
                                                                                        > stuff?
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                        > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                        > > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                        > > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                        > > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                        > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                        > > > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                        > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                                                                                        > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                        > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                        > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                        > Finding fabulous fares is fun.
                                                                                        > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find
                                                                                        flight and hotel bargains.
                                                                                        >



                                                                                        Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                                                                                        in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel
                                                                                        to find your fit.

                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2550 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/3/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        My wife wants to do that to her computer, frankly I don't blame her it an antique P2 with a 6 GB hard drive. She gets a new one when the income tax refund arrives....
                                                                                        Dave S.

                                                                                        John Barlow wrote:
                                                                                        That's a lot of...hate! Woooooo!
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John

                                                                                        Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                        Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky!
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff

                                                                                        I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                        Sean

                                                                                        John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                        Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John

                                                                                        curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                                        My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the
                                                                                        repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.

                                                                                        I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                        Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                        But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                        And TYCO?
                                                                                        Even some "bachmann" crXp.

                                                                                        There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                        Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                        in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                        8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?



                                                                                        We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                        (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.


                                                                                        No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                        with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.


                                                                                        Never Miss an Email
                                                                                        Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

                                                                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.22/666 - Release Date: 2/3/2007 3:31 PM
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2551 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        Hang on to that old computer and use it as your main Internet terminal.

                                                                                        With the crap attacking computers from The Web, it's a good safety factor to keep your -real- computer off-line as much as possible.

                                                                                        You can get tricky about it and make a custom re-install disk to quickly restore the old computer after a Net attack. That's where you'll wipe the old computer and reload it with all your settings and protection turned on.......... And ready to run in a bit over five minutes.....

                                                                                        Look up 'slip-streaming' in a web search and you'll find some programs you only need to click with to make that custom start-up disk for your machine........

                                                                                        Add a look for optimizing your OS and you'll be able to set that older computer Web system to run slim and fast as a mainly web-browsing only system. 

                                                                                        If you want to have it sitting next to your new computer, but not needing it's own monitor/keyboard/mouse.... look at the $30-$50 KVM's that let you share those between a couple of separate computers boxes with a flick of a single switch.

                                                                                        I do much the same with a non-windows computer that is almost completely safe from the crap trying to infect and damage Windows systems.

                                                                                        Best to ya'
                                                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                        On Feb 3, 2007, at 11:39 PM, Dave Slater wrote:

                                                                                        My wife wants to do that to her computer, frankly I don't blame her it an antique P2 with a 6 GB hard drive. She gets a new one when the income tax refund arrives....
                                                                                        Dave S.

                                                                                        John Barlow wrote:
                                                                                        That's a lot of...hate! Woooooo!
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John

                                                                                        Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                        Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky!
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2552 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        I already have an old computer of about the same vintage set up for that..  <VBG>
                                                                                        I also have an even older (just barely older) one for use with a Digitrax PR1 programmer on Win 95.... <G>
                                                                                        Dave S.


                                                                                        Mike Bauers wrote:
                                                                                        Hang on to that old computer and use it as your main Internet terminal.

                                                                                        With the crap attacking computers from The Web, it's a good safety factor to keep your -real- computer off-line as much as possible.

                                                                                        You can get tricky about it and make a custom re-install disk to quickly restore the old computer after a Net attack. That's where you'll wipe the old computer and reload it with all your settings and protection turned on.......... And ready to run in a bit over five minutes.....

                                                                                        Look up 'slip-streaming' in a web search and you'll find some programs you only need to click with to make that custom start-up disk for your machine........

                                                                                        Add a look for optimizing your OS and you'll be able to set that older computer Web system to run slim and fast as a mainly web-browsing only system. 

                                                                                        If you want to have it sitting next to your new computer, but not needing it's own monitor/keyboard/mouse.... look at the $30-$50 KVM's that let you share those between a couple of separate computers boxes with a flick of a single switch.

                                                                                        I do much the same with a non-windows computer that is almost completely safe from the crap trying to infect and damage Windows systems.

                                                                                        Best to ya'
                                                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                        On Feb 3, 2007, at 11:39 PM, Dave Slater wrote:

                                                                                        My wife wants to do that to her computer, frankly I don't blame her it an antique P2 with a 6 GB hard drive. She gets a new one when the income tax refund arrives....
                                                                                        Dave S.

                                                                                        John Barlow wrote:
                                                                                        That's a lot of...hate! Woooooo!
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John

                                                                                        Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                        Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky!

                                                                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.22/666 - Release Date: 2/3/2007 3:31 PM
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2553 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                        Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some
                                                                                        steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the
                                                                                        moolah to switch.

                                                                                        I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night,
                                                                                        and we had nothing.
                                                                                        Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power.

                                                                                        Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two),
                                                                                        and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails.
                                                                                        Hard grey encrustation.
                                                                                        We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all.
                                                                                        I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up
                                                                                        rusty, of all things.

                                                                                        So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but
                                                                                        the brass is far easier to clean.

                                                                                        Any ideas?

                                                                                        Dave
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2554 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Another question
                                                                                        The Athearn dummy "A"s out of this last batch are fine.
                                                                                        The rest, well, it all works, but for how long and how well?

                                                                                        The surprise was an Athearn SW-1500.
                                                                                        Cleaned, lubed, runs good.
                                                                                        But:
                                                                                        I need a good photo of how the Athearn (not prototype) had the
                                                                                        handrails "plumbed".
                                                                                        The step rails to the cab door, and the ones up the end steps for sure.

                                                                                        I have material and stanchions, just want it somewhat "right" for as-
                                                                                        delivered.

                                                                                        Thanks.
                                                                                        Dave
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2555 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        I like the Win. 97 trench broom.  Seriously--Edge Wireless was running that as their TV commercial.
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: curmudgeon
                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:12 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff

                                                                                        I have more fun up close with a .45ACP, but range with a 12GA side-
                                                                                        by-side works....

                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Ya really wanna terminate a loco? Recently one of the cell-phone
                                                                                        companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap,
                                                                                        call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky!
                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > From: sean naylor
                                                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                        > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM
                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe)
                                                                                        sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I
                                                                                        promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come
                                                                                        accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                        > Sean
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                        > Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > John
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                        > My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and
                                                                                        picked up the
                                                                                        > repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of
                                                                                        dismals.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                        > Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                        > But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                        > And TYCO?
                                                                                        > Even some "bachmann" crXp.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                        > Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest"
                                                                                        and "Made
                                                                                        > in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                        > 8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this
                                                                                        stuff?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                                                        ---------
                                                                                        > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                        > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                                                        -----------
                                                                                        > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                        > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                        >

                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2556 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh, gawd.......more stuff
                                                                                        I think it's more frustration. A friend used to keep a rather large firecracker on his workbench--we'd pass it back and forth when things started to go haywire--or at least ask, "are you ready for this?" 
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:27 PM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff

                                                                                        That's a lot of...hate! Woooooo!
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John

                                                                                        Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                                        Ya really wanna terminate a loco?  Recently one of the cell-phone companies had a trapshooter place his old phone on the trap, call "Pull!" and blew the phone out of the sky!
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:01 AM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Oh, gawd.......more stuff

                                                                                        I have had a red white and blue Lionel FA (freedom, I believe) sitting on my counter for over a year... It has one bum truck. I promised a guy I work with I would fix it with one I happen to come accross. Has not yet appeared.
                                                                                        Sean

                                                                                        John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                        Lionel FA with EMD trucks? Give it the last rites!
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John

                                                                                        curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                                        My brother came over for our bi-monthly ops session, and picked up the
                                                                                        repaired/rebuilt engines....and dropped me off a BIG box of dismals.

                                                                                        I don't even know if I want to dive into them.
                                                                                        Couple of Athearn dummy "A"s, no problem.
                                                                                        But a Lionel FA?
                                                                                        And TYCO?
                                                                                        Even some "bachmann" crXp.

                                                                                        There is one...Rock Islan F7-A.
                                                                                        Shell is...okay, the "tank" says "RSO" and smaller "atest" and "Made
                                                                                        in Yugoslavia"
                                                                                        8-wheel drive, anyway...where in the world did he find this stuff?



                                                                                        We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                                                        (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.


                                                                                        No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                        with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.


                                                                                        Never Miss an Email
                                                                                        Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2557 From: Neal Rammacher Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                        NS is without a doubt the cat's meow.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I just clean mine with alcohol rubs and the trains run very well. We have Atlas Truetrack. Somebody told me once you can also use tuner cleaner to finish the job.
                                                                                         
                                                                                         
                                                                                        neal and the gang
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: curmudgeon
                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:30 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Brass and NS track......

                                                                                        Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some
                                                                                        steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the
                                                                                        moolah to switch.

                                                                                        I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night,
                                                                                        and we had nothing.
                                                                                        Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power.

                                                                                        Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two),
                                                                                        and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails.
                                                                                        Hard grey encrustation.
                                                                                        We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all.
                                                                                        I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up
                                                                                        rusty, of all things.

                                                                                        So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but
                                                                                        the brass is far easier to clean.

                                                                                        Any ideas?

                                                                                        Dave

                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2558 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                        Dave, Nickel Silver does not rust. It may form a grey-ish, dull appearance. This corrosion is relatively easy to remove and slightly conductive.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        You have some steel track - cute but not useful. Why it had a grey coating - maye it was plated with something. Rust is iron oxide, whereas Nickel is an alloy of Copper, Zinc and Nickel.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Sorry for the bad news.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                        curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                        Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some
                                                                                        steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the
                                                                                        moolah to switch.

                                                                                        I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night,
                                                                                        and we had nothing.
                                                                                        Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power.

                                                                                        Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two),
                                                                                        and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails.
                                                                                        Hard grey encrustation.
                                                                                        We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all.
                                                                                        I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up
                                                                                        rusty, of all things.

                                                                                        So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but
                                                                                        the brass is far easier to clean.

                                                                                        Any ideas?

                                                                                        Dave






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                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2559 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Another question
                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:33 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Another question


                                                                                          > The Athearn dummy "A"s out of this last batch are fine.
                                                                                          > The rest, well, it all works, but for how long and how well?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The surprise was an Athearn SW-1500.
                                                                                          > Cleaned, lubed, runs good.
                                                                                          > But:
                                                                                          > I need a good photo of how the Athearn (not prototype) had the
                                                                                          > handrails "plumbed".
                                                                                          > The step rails to the cab door, and the ones up the end steps for sure.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I have material and stanchions, just want it somewhat "right" for as-
                                                                                          > delivered.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks.
                                                                                          > Dave

                                                                                          Is it REALLY an SW-1500 or the SW-7 that Athearn sold as an SW-1500 for many
                                                                                          many years?

                                                                                          If the latter, this pictuire may help.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Co-owner
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2560 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          Only one had the rusty bit, and I think that was the "TYCO Austria".
                                                                                          The others have this encrustation you can literally chip off!

                                                                                          Dave


                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Dave, Nickel Silver does not rust. It may form a grey-ish, dull
                                                                                          appearance. This corrosion is relatively easy to remove and slightly
                                                                                          conductive.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > You have some steel track - cute but not useful. Why it had a
                                                                                          grey coating - maye it was plated with something. Rust is iron
                                                                                          oxide, whereas Nickel is an alloy of Copper, Zinc and Nickel.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Sorry for the bad news.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass.
                                                                                          Some
                                                                                          > steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > moolah to switch.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night,
                                                                                          > and we had nothing.
                                                                                          > Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for
                                                                                          two),
                                                                                          > and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails.
                                                                                          > Hard grey encrustation.
                                                                                          > We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all.
                                                                                          > I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up
                                                                                          > rusty, of all things.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow,
                                                                                          but
                                                                                          > the brass is far easier to clean.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Any ideas?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Dave
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > __________________________________________________
                                                                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2561 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:30 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Brass and NS track......


                                                                                          > Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some
                                                                                          > steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had the
                                                                                          > moolah to switch.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night,
                                                                                          > and we had nothing.
                                                                                          > Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for two),
                                                                                          > and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails.
                                                                                          > Hard grey encrustation.
                                                                                          > We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at all.
                                                                                          > I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up
                                                                                          > rusty, of all things.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow, but
                                                                                          > the brass is far easier to clean.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Any ideas?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Dave

                                                                                          I really question if the Bachmann Hong Kong was really nickel silver. You
                                                                                          should NEVER have "rust" with NS, at's an allow of copper, nickel & zinc.
                                                                                          I'd guess it's really steel track.

                                                                                          Brass may be easier to clean, but won't stay clean. The main reson nickel
                                                                                          silver is better is that it's oxide is electrically conductive, while the
                                                                                          oxides of brass and steel are insulators. I clean my track MAYBE once a
                                                                                          year, and then only when I haven't run in a long time. Brass needs to be
                                                                                          cleaned almost every operating session. My trolley modules spend the year
                                                                                          stored in an unheated, un-airconditioned garage. When they're brought out
                                                                                          every November for trainfest, a quick wipe of alcohol and they're ready to
                                                                                          go.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Co-owner
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2562 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          Well, I went out and through the entire box.
                                                                                          "TYCO Austria", "TYCO Hong Kong", "Bachmann, Hong Kong", and some
                                                                                          outfit afraid to put their name on in, but made in "Yugoslavia".

                                                                                          The stuff is able to be picked up with a magnet.
                                                                                          It's silver-y on the sides, file, 240, 400 and a greenie and nothing
                                                                                          will make it "shine".
                                                                                          Engines I thought were going to take more work now run on a test
                                                                                          track of 8 sections of brass gone over with a greenie just fine.

                                                                                          He had bought this stuff over the years to add to the ancient brass
                                                                                          we had for my nephew's railroad.

                                                                                          All this time he thought it was NS.
                                                                                          It's all taped in bundles separately from the usable brass.
                                                                                          I'm going to suggest "landfill".

                                                                                          Funny, the stuff you can get to run.

                                                                                          Dave

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:30 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some
                                                                                          > > steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > > moolah to switch.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night,
                                                                                          > > and we had nothing.
                                                                                          > > Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for
                                                                                          two),
                                                                                          > > and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails.
                                                                                          > > Hard grey encrustation.
                                                                                          > > We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at
                                                                                          all.
                                                                                          > > I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up
                                                                                          > > rusty, of all things.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow,
                                                                                          but
                                                                                          > > the brass is far easier to clean.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Any ideas?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Dave
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I really question if the Bachmann Hong Kong was really nickel
                                                                                          silver. You
                                                                                          > should NEVER have "rust" with NS, at's an allow of copper, nickel
                                                                                          & zinc.
                                                                                          > I'd guess it's really steel track.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Brass may be easier to clean, but won't stay clean. The main
                                                                                          reson nickel
                                                                                          > silver is better is that it's oxide is electrically conductive,
                                                                                          while the
                                                                                          > oxides of brass and steel are insulators. I clean my track MAYBE
                                                                                          once a
                                                                                          > year, and then only when I haven't run in a long time. Brass
                                                                                          needs to be
                                                                                          > cleaned almost every operating session. My trolley modules spend
                                                                                          the year
                                                                                          > stored in an unheated, un-airconditioned garage. When they're
                                                                                          brought out
                                                                                          > every November for trainfest, a quick wipe of alcohol and they're
                                                                                          ready to
                                                                                          > go.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          > Co-owner
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2563 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Another question
                                                                                          Just going by their description is all.
                                                                                          I'll go look and see how they were.
                                                                                          The rails to the rear cab door, just really wanted to see how they
                                                                                          were bent (straight 45° or multiple bends) and the angle of the
                                                                                          vertical portion of the rails at the end steps.
                                                                                          Dave


                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:33 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Another question
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > The Athearn dummy "A"s out of this last batch are fine.
                                                                                          > > The rest, well, it all works, but for how long and how well?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > The surprise was an Athearn SW-1500.
                                                                                          > > Cleaned, lubed, runs good.
                                                                                          > > But:
                                                                                          > > I need a good photo of how the Athearn (not prototype) had the
                                                                                          > > handrails "plumbed".
                                                                                          > > The step rails to the cab door, and the ones up the end steps
                                                                                          for sure.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I have material and stanchions, just want it somewhat "right"
                                                                                          for as-
                                                                                          > > delivered.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Thanks.
                                                                                          > > Dave
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Is it REALLY an SW-1500 or the SW-7 that Athearn sold as an SW-
                                                                                          1500 for many
                                                                                          > many years?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > If the latter, this pictuire may help.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          > Co-owner
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2564 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Another question
                                                                                          arrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh.
                                                                                          I'm on "web only" and the photos don't show up.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:33 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Another question
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > The Athearn dummy "A"s out of this last batch are fine.
                                                                                          > > The rest, well, it all works, but for how long and how well?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > The surprise was an Athearn SW-1500.
                                                                                          > > Cleaned, lubed, runs good.
                                                                                          > > But:
                                                                                          > > I need a good photo of how the Athearn (not prototype) had the
                                                                                          > > handrails "plumbed".
                                                                                          > > The step rails to the cab door, and the ones up the end steps
                                                                                          for sure.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I have material and stanchions, just want it somewhat "right"
                                                                                          for as-
                                                                                          > > delivered.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Thanks.
                                                                                          > > Dave
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Is it REALLY an SW-1500 or the SW-7 that Athearn sold as an SW-
                                                                                          1500 for many
                                                                                          > many years?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > If the latter, this pictuire may help.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          > Co-owner
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2565 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          I just called the Bach-Man and asked.
                                                                                          The only NS they have ever had is the black roadbed EZTrack, and
                                                                                          this stuff is long before his time!
                                                                                          Dave

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:30 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > Okay. When I jumped ship on half-zero in 1970, we had brass. Some
                                                                                          > > steel, which I like, and NS may have been out, but we never had
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > > moolah to switch.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I dug out my brother's NS sections for a track test Friday night,
                                                                                          > > and we had nothing.
                                                                                          > > Push the engine, not even a flicker at full power.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Checked the NS track (Bachmann Hong Kong and TYCO Austria for
                                                                                          two),
                                                                                          > > and you literally had to scrpe the tops of the rails.
                                                                                          > > Hard grey encrustation.
                                                                                          > > We ended up with 240 grit to get it to where it would work at
                                                                                          all.
                                                                                          > > I went over some more today with a jeweler's file, which ended up
                                                                                          > > rusty, of all things.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > So, question is, I thought NS was supposed to be the cat's meow,
                                                                                          but
                                                                                          > > the brass is far easier to clean.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Any ideas?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Dave
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I really question if the Bachmann Hong Kong was really nickel
                                                                                          silver. You
                                                                                          > should NEVER have "rust" with NS, at's an allow of copper, nickel
                                                                                          & zinc.
                                                                                          > I'd guess it's really steel track.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Brass may be easier to clean, but won't stay clean. The main
                                                                                          reson nickel
                                                                                          > silver is better is that it's oxide is electrically conductive,
                                                                                          while the
                                                                                          > oxides of brass and steel are insulators. I clean my track MAYBE
                                                                                          once a
                                                                                          > year, and then only when I haven't run in a long time. Brass
                                                                                          needs to be
                                                                                          > cleaned almost every operating session. My trolley modules spend
                                                                                          the year
                                                                                          > stored in an unheated, un-airconditioned garage. When they're
                                                                                          brought out
                                                                                          > every November for trainfest, a quick wipe of alcohol and they're
                                                                                          ready to
                                                                                          > go.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          > Co-owner
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2566 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:38 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track......


                                                                                          > Well, I went out and through the entire box.
                                                                                          > "TYCO Austria", "TYCO Hong Kong", "Bachmann, Hong Kong", and some
                                                                                          > outfit afraid to put their name on in, but made in "Yugoslavia".
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The stuff is able to be picked up with a magnet.
                                                                                          > It's silver-y on the sides, file, 240, 400 and a greenie and nothing
                                                                                          > will make it "shine".
                                                                                          > Engines I thought were going to take more work now run on a test
                                                                                          > track of 8 sections of brass gone over with a greenie just fine.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > He had bought this stuff over the years to add to the ancient brass
                                                                                          > we had for my nephew's railroad.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > All this time he thought it was NS.
                                                                                          > It's all taped in bundles separately from the usable brass.
                                                                                          > I'm going to suggest "landfill".
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Funny, the stuff you can get to run.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Dave

                                                                                          The made in Yugoslavia stuff came from AHM. If it's magnetic, it's
                                                                                          definitely steel.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Co-owner
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2567 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/4/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Another question
                                                                                          Sent you better pictures off list

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Co-owner
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY



                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:59 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Another question


                                                                                          > arrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh.
                                                                                          > I'm on "web only" and the photos don't show up.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          >> From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          >> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:33 PM
                                                                                          >> Subject: [vintageHO] Another question
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> > The Athearn dummy "A"s out of this last batch are fine.
                                                                                          >> > The rest, well, it all works, but for how long and how well?
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > The surprise was an Athearn SW-1500.
                                                                                          >> > Cleaned, lubed, runs good.
                                                                                          >> > But:
                                                                                          >> > I need a good photo of how the Athearn (not prototype) had the
                                                                                          >> > handrails "plumbed".
                                                                                          >> > The step rails to the cab door, and the ones up the end steps
                                                                                          > for sure.
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > I have material and stanchions, just want it somewhat "right"
                                                                                          > for as-
                                                                                          >> > delivered.
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > Thanks.
                                                                                          >> > Dave
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Is it REALLY an SW-1500 or the SW-7 that Athearn sold as an SW-
                                                                                          > 1500 for many
                                                                                          >> many years?
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> If the latter, this pictuire may help.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Don
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          >> http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          >> Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          >> Co-owner
                                                                                          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2568 From: bitlerisvj Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          Yep, the OLD Tyco stuff is definitely steel, and probably not a good
                                                                                          grade of steel. My son-in-law dug his out one day and asked me to see
                                                                                          if I could make it run. I did, but I really should have just bought
                                                                                          new track. Bachmann EZ track is probably the way to go these days for
                                                                                          Train Sets. The only way to fix this stuff is to use sandpaper or a
                                                                                          file. But, it will eventually rust again. This "vintage" stuff is
                                                                                          probably not very useful to use.
                                                                                          Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:38 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > Well, I went out and through the entire box.
                                                                                          > > "TYCO Austria", "TYCO Hong Kong", "Bachmann, Hong Kong", and some
                                                                                          > > outfit afraid to put their name on in, but made in "Yugoslavia".
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > The stuff is able to be picked up with a magnet.
                                                                                          > > It's silver-y on the sides, file, 240, 400 and a greenie and nothing
                                                                                          > > will make it "shine".
                                                                                          > > Engines I thought were going to take more work now run on a test
                                                                                          > > track of 8 sections of brass gone over with a greenie just fine.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > He had bought this stuff over the years to add to the ancient brass
                                                                                          > > we had for my nephew's railroad.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > All this time he thought it was NS.
                                                                                          > > It's all taped in bundles separately from the usable brass.
                                                                                          > > I'm going to suggest "landfill".
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Funny, the stuff you can get to run.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Dave
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The made in Yugoslavia stuff came from AHM. If it's magnetic, it's
                                                                                          > definitely steel.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          > Co-owner
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2569 From: John Hagen Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yep, the OLD Tyco stuff is definitely steel, and probably not a good
                                                                                          > grade of steel. My son-in-law dug his out one day and asked me to see
                                                                                          > if I could make it run. I did, but I really should have just bought
                                                                                          > new track. Bachmann EZ track is probably the way to go these days for
                                                                                          > Train Sets. The only way to fix this stuff is to use sandpaper or a
                                                                                          > file. But, it will eventually rust again. This "vintage" stuff is
                                                                                          > probably not very useful to use.
                                                                                          > Regards, Vic Bitleris


                                                                                          There absolutely no reason not to use vintage rail as long as it's
                                                                                          vintage NS that is. I remember a review of that TYCO track in MR some
                                                                                          years ago, it was steel with some sort of plating. As I recall it
                                                                                          seemed ok wnem new but they questioned how it would age.

                                                                                          John Hagen
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2570 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          Yes, had some kind of "coating", that was for sure.
                                                                                          Only one piece really had any visible rust, and that was on the web.
                                                                                          No idea what kind of "alloy" makes a grey crust and not rust.
                                                                                          Trash can, here they come.

                                                                                          In the "old days", we built with recycled TruScale, spiked rails
                                                                                          down, and the rails were, oh, 3 or 4 foot sections of steel.
                                                                                          Real steel, when it rusted you could see it.
                                                                                          No idea where the rail came from, who made it, we just ended up with
                                                                                          it.
                                                                                          Never had any issues with that stuff, but over the years of movig,
                                                                                          set up, tear down layouts, the steel got less and less, and the
                                                                                          brass more and more.
                                                                                          Brass worked fine if you cleaned it once in a while.

                                                                                          Dave


                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Yep, the OLD Tyco stuff is definitely steel, and probably not a
                                                                                          good
                                                                                          > > grade of steel. My son-in-law dug his out one day and asked me
                                                                                          to see
                                                                                          > > if I could make it run. I did, but I really should have just
                                                                                          bought
                                                                                          > > new track. Bachmann EZ track is probably the way to go these
                                                                                          days for
                                                                                          > > Train Sets. The only way to fix this stuff is to use sandpaper
                                                                                          or a
                                                                                          > > file. But, it will eventually rust again. This "vintage" stuff
                                                                                          is
                                                                                          > > probably not very useful to use.
                                                                                          > > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > There absolutely no reason not to use vintage rail as long as it's
                                                                                          > vintage NS that is. I remember a review of that TYCO track in MR
                                                                                          some
                                                                                          > years ago, it was steel with some sort of plating. As I recall it
                                                                                          > seemed ok wnem new but they questioned how it would age.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > John Hagen
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2571 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          Just as an FYI, REAL Steel is probably the BEST for Model railroading, IF
                                                                                          you run trains regularly. Steel wheels against Steel rail will get you the
                                                                                          BEST traction possible and it is a VERY good electrical conductor. The only
                                                                                          drawback to Steel is that it will rust if not used regulary and then it is a
                                                                                          pain to clean. Brass is second best, but it oxidizes with a coating that is
                                                                                          an insulator. Nickle against Nickle is the worst for traction. However,
                                                                                          for overall reliability and appearance, Nickle is the way to go. When
                                                                                          Nickle oxidizes, the coating is electrically conductive.

                                                                                          Vic Bitleris
                                                                                          Raleigh, NC



                                                                                          ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                                          From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:43:46 -0000

                                                                                          Yes, had some kind of "coating", that was for sure.
                                                                                          Only one piece really had any visible rust, and that was on the web.
                                                                                          No idea what kind of "alloy" makes a grey crust and not rust.
                                                                                          Trash can, here they come.

                                                                                          In the "old days", we built with recycled TruScale, spiked rails
                                                                                          down, and the rails were, oh, 3 or 4 foot sections of steel.
                                                                                          Real steel, when it rusted you could see it.
                                                                                          No idea where the rail came from, who made it, we just ended up with
                                                                                          it.
                                                                                          Never had any issues with that stuff, but over the years of movig,
                                                                                          set up, tear down layouts, the steel got less and less, and the
                                                                                          brass more and more.
                                                                                          Brass worked fine if you cleaned it once in a while.

                                                                                          Dave


                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Yep, the OLD Tyco stuff is definitely steel, and probably not a
                                                                                          good
                                                                                          > > grade of steel. My son-in-law dug his out one day and asked me
                                                                                          to see
                                                                                          > > if I could make it run. I did, but I really should have just
                                                                                          bought
                                                                                          > > new track. Bachmann EZ track is probably the way to go these
                                                                                          days for
                                                                                          > > Train Sets. The only way to fix this stuff is to use sandpaper
                                                                                          or a
                                                                                          > > file. But, it will eventually rust again. This "vintage" stuff
                                                                                          is
                                                                                          > > probably not very useful to use.
                                                                                          > > Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > There absolutely no reason not to use vintage rail as long as it's
                                                                                          > vintage NS that is. I remember a review of that TYCO track in MR
                                                                                          some
                                                                                          > years ago, it was steel with some sort of plating. As I recall it
                                                                                          > seemed ok wnem new but they questioned how it would age.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > John Hagen
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          _________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2572 From: Mike Sloane Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          Actually, as the following table will demonstrate, iron/steel is one of
                                                                                          the poorer conducting metals.
                                                                                          <http://metals.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.reade.com/Particle%5FBriefings/elec%5Fres.html>
                                                                                          or <http://www.tiny.cc/TL1Hb> if that is too long.

                                                                                          Plus, for model railroading purposes, it is hard to cut and drill, and
                                                                                          not easy to bend.

                                                                                          Mike

                                                                                          Victor Bitleris wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Just as an FYI, REAL Steel is probably the BEST for Model railroading, IF
                                                                                          > you run trains regularly. Steel wheels against Steel rail will get you the
                                                                                          > BEST traction possible and it is a VERY good electrical conductor. The only
                                                                                          > drawback to Steel is that it will rust if not used regulary and then it
                                                                                          > is a
                                                                                          > pain to clean. Brass is second best, but it oxidizes with a coating that is
                                                                                          > an insulator. Nickle against Nickle is the worst for traction. However,
                                                                                          > for overall reliability and appearance, Nickle is the way to go. When
                                                                                          > Nickle oxidizes, the coating is electrically conductive.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Vic Bitleris
                                                                                          > Raleigh, NC

                                                                                          --
                                                                                          Mike Sloane
                                                                                          Allamuchy NJ
                                                                                          <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                          Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                                          Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                                          It's hard to argue against cynics - they always sound smarter
                                                                                          than optimists because they have so much evidence on their side.
                                                                                          -- Molly Ivins 1944-2007
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2573 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          No arguments on conductivity. But for traction, the best overall
                                                                                          (and this is half-0, 0, and 1 gauge experience) is cast iron drive
                                                                                          wheels on steel rail.
                                                                                          Next is pot-metal (or some other type of cast metal) drivers on
                                                                                          oxidized aluminum.
                                                                                          I have 150' of continuous 4% grade, and with the plating off the
                                                                                          drivers, one 2-truck Shay will pull, in dry wearther, unassisted
                                                                                          with no wheel slip, 28-34 loads up said grade.

                                                                                          Anecdotally, it seems brass drivered locos on brass track pull less
                                                                                          well than steel drivers on brass (1951 Mantua Mike and early Athearn
                                                                                          dismals with steel wheels).
                                                                                          But, I've not done weight and drawbar pull anaalysis of those.

                                                                                          Dave

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Actually, as the following table will demonstrate, iron/steel is
                                                                                          one of
                                                                                          > the poorer conducting metals.
                                                                                          > <http://metals.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?
                                                                                          site=http://www.reade.com/Particle%5FBriefings/elec%5Fres.html>
                                                                                          > or <http://www.tiny.cc/TL1Hb> if that is too long.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Plus, for model railroading purposes, it is hard to cut and drill,
                                                                                          and
                                                                                          > not easy to bend.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Mike
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Victor Bitleris wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Just as an FYI, REAL Steel is probably the BEST for Model
                                                                                          railroading, IF
                                                                                          > > you run trains regularly. Steel wheels against Steel rail will
                                                                                          get you the
                                                                                          > > BEST traction possible and it is a VERY good electrical
                                                                                          conductor. The only
                                                                                          > > drawback to Steel is that it will rust if not used regulary and
                                                                                          then it
                                                                                          > > is a
                                                                                          > > pain to clean. Brass is second best, but it oxidizes with a
                                                                                          coating that is
                                                                                          > > an insulator. Nickle against Nickle is the worst for traction.
                                                                                          However,
                                                                                          > > for overall reliability and appearance, Nickle is the way to go.
                                                                                          When
                                                                                          > > Nickle oxidizes, the coating is electrically conductive.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Vic Bitleris
                                                                                          > > Raleigh, NC
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --
                                                                                          > Mike Sloane
                                                                                          > Allamuchy NJ
                                                                                          > <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                          > Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                                          > Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It's hard to argue against cynics - they always sound smarter
                                                                                          > than optimists because they have so much evidence on their side.
                                                                                          > -- Molly Ivins 1944-2007
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2574 From: John Hagen Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > No arguments on conductivity. But for traction, the best overall
                                                                                          > (and this is half-0, 0, and 1 gauge experience) is cast iron drive
                                                                                          > wheels on steel rail.

                                                                                          A few years back (around 1928) I had an "Athearn" switcher. Started
                                                                                          out as an S-12, ended up with a Cary ALCO S-2 shell, modified frame,
                                                                                          added lead where ever I could put it, Sagami can motor w/two
                                                                                          flywheels and Ernst gears. Before I put in the Sagami motor, it had
                                                                                          Heiden (may not be correct on spelling) reduction gears in place of
                                                                                          the flywheels PLUS the Ernst gears in the trucks. This came out to a
                                                                                          144 to 1 gear reduction! I changed over when the Heiden gers
                                                                                          stripped. The idea of this was to get a switcher that would run at
                                                                                          steady, slow speed whether running empty or moving up to seven
                                                                                          weighted 40 ft cars. The cars ran 4 - 4.5 ozs. All this was for my
                                                                                          John Allen designed "Time-saver" switching game. The idea here was
                                                                                          to score the operator based on total time to solve the assigned
                                                                                          problem, not the number of moves. As such the locomotive moved at a
                                                                                          pre-set speed and the operator could only start, stop and reverse
                                                                                          it. With a standard Athearn engine the speed would have to be way
                                                                                          too fast when running light or with a couple of cars in order for it
                                                                                          to move at all with 4, 5 or 6 cars.

                                                                                          It really worked quite well, especially after I put in the Sagami
                                                                                          motor and added all the weight. It ran slow, smooth and had very
                                                                                          little speed variation right up until it stalled due to slippage.
                                                                                          And could it haul! I was able to switch 50 + cuts of 5 oz. cars on a
                                                                                          friends layout (Don is a witness to this). When the layouts owner's
                                                                                          Hobbytown powered Cary SW1500 shelled switcher stalled on an
                                                                                          unreachable turnout (4 wheel pick-up) I could move it off the dead
                                                                                          spot with the S-2.

                                                                                          UNTIL, I installed NS wheels. The layout was converted to command
                                                                                          control (pre-digital) so the sintered iron wheels had to go to
                                                                                          ensure good electrical contact. After that I was lucky to 40 cars in
                                                                                          the same area and I couldn't begin to budge that SW1500!

                                                                                          John Hagen
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2575 From: John Hagen Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@>
                                                                                          > wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > No arguments on conductivity. But for traction, the best overall
                                                                                          > > (and this is half-0, 0, and 1 gauge experience) is cast iron drive
                                                                                          > > wheels on steel rail.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > A few years back (around 1928) I had an "Athearn" switcher. Started

                                                                                          Darn I hate it when I do that! Obvisously I meant 1982!

                                                                                          BTW, this was on NS track.

                                                                                          John Hagen
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2576 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          Atlas and others made steel-rail flex track during the Korean War.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:05 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track......


                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:38 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track......

                                                                                          > Well, I went out and through the entire box.
                                                                                          > "TYCO Austria", "TYCO Hong Kong", "Bachmann, Hong Kong", and some
                                                                                          > outfit afraid to put their name on in, but made in "Yugoslavia" .
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The stuff is able to be picked up with a magnet.
                                                                                          > It's silver-y on the sides, file, 240, 400 and a greenie and nothing
                                                                                          > will make it "shine".
                                                                                          > Engines I thought were going to take more work now run on a test
                                                                                          > track of 8 sections of brass gone over with a greenie just fine.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > He had bought this stuff over the years to add to the ancient brass
                                                                                          > we had for my nephew's railroad.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > All this time he thought it was NS.
                                                                                          > It's all taped in bundles separately from the usable brass.
                                                                                          > I'm going to suggest "landfill".
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Funny, the stuff you can get to run.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Dave

                                                                                          The made in Yugoslavia stuff came from AHM. If it's magnetic, it's
                                                                                          definitely steel.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                          http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                          Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Co-owner
                                                                                          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2577 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Brass and NS track......
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:07 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass and NS track......


                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@>
                                                                                          >> wrote:
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > No arguments on conductivity. But for traction, the best overall
                                                                                          >> > (and this is half-0, 0, and 1 gauge experience) is cast iron drive
                                                                                          >> > wheels on steel rail.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> A few years back (around 1928) I had an "Athearn" switcher. Started
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Darn I hate it when I do that! Obvisously I meant 1982!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > BTW, this was on NS track.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > John Hagen

                                                                                          I HOPE it wasn't 1928! 'cause as you said, I was there! :-)

                                                                                          I may be old, but not THAT old.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          Owner-Moderator
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Co-owner
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2578 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: One Athearn part needed
                                                                                          For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super-
                                                                                          geared" F-units.
                                                                                          The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut,
                                                                                          rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                          On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on the
                                                                                          u-joint side, one of the open end.
                                                                                          They appear to be identical.
                                                                                          I need one of those bearings.
                                                                                          The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and I
                                                                                          have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to go.

                                                                                          Dimensions:
                                                                                          Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                          OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                          ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                          Thickness: .100"

                                                                                          Anybody have a spare?

                                                                                          While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer
                                                                                          clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's?

                                                                                          I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them,
                                                                                          I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.

                                                                                          Thanks.
                                                                                          E-mail me with particulars.

                                                                                          Dave
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2579 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
                                                                                          Dave--I'll check my parts bin.  Is it an "Oilite" bearing, sort of hat shaped?  gj
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: curmudgeon
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed

                                                                                          For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super-
                                                                                          geared" F-units.
                                                                                          The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut,
                                                                                          rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                          On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on the
                                                                                          u-joint side, one of the open end.
                                                                                          They appear to be identical.
                                                                                          I need one of those bearings.
                                                                                          The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and I
                                                                                          have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to go.

                                                                                          Dimensions:
                                                                                          Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                          OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                          ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                          Thickness: .100"

                                                                                          Anybody have a spare?

                                                                                          While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer
                                                                                          clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's?

                                                                                          I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them,
                                                                                          I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.

                                                                                          Thanks.
                                                                                          E-mail me with particulars.

                                                                                          Dave

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2580 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
                                                                                          Got a bunch that are close--gimme an address--gj
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: curmudgeon
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed

                                                                                          For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super-
                                                                                          geared" F-units.
                                                                                          The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut,
                                                                                          rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                          On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on the
                                                                                          u-joint side, one of the open end.
                                                                                          They appear to be identical.
                                                                                          I need one of those bearings.
                                                                                          The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and I
                                                                                          have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to go.

                                                                                          Dimensions:
                                                                                          Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                          OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                          ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                          Thickness: .100"

                                                                                          Anybody have a spare?

                                                                                          While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer
                                                                                          clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's?

                                                                                          I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them,
                                                                                          I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.

                                                                                          Thanks.
                                                                                          E-mail me with particulars.

                                                                                          Dave

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2581 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
                                                                                          No, that's the motor bearings.
                                                                                          Smaller od and ID.
                                                                                          This has two "collars", looks like a piece of channel wrapped around
                                                                                          a shaft.
                                                                                          Dave
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Dave--I'll check my parts bin. Is it an "Oilite" bearing, sort of
                                                                                          hat shaped? gj
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: curmudgeon
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was
                                                                                          called "super-
                                                                                          > geared" F-units.
                                                                                          > The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight
                                                                                          cut,
                                                                                          > rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                          > On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > u-joint side, one of the open end.
                                                                                          > They appear to be identical.
                                                                                          > I need one of those bearings.
                                                                                          > The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and
                                                                                          I
                                                                                          > have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to
                                                                                          go.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Dimensions:
                                                                                          > Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                          > OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                          > ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                          > Thickness: .100"
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Anybody have a spare?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer
                                                                                          > clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed
                                                                                          them,
                                                                                          > I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks.
                                                                                          > E-mail me with particulars.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Dave
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2582 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                          Subject: Mannor Gon
                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                            Attached is a picture of a kit I have, wondering if there are other kits
                                                                                            around? The box says they also made other freight cars. Roger Aultman
                                                                                            --




                                                                                            http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2583 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mannor Gon
                                                                                            Don't recognize the box, but there are a couple of familiar envelopes.  gj
                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                            Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM
                                                                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Mannor Gon

                                                                                            Attached is a picture of a kit I have, wondering if there are other kits
                                                                                            around? The box says they also made other freight cars. Roger Aultman
                                                                                            --

                                                                                            http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                                                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/


                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2584 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mannor Gon
                                                                                            Guess the manufacturers cross supplied each other back then also. Roger

                                                                                            Glenn Joesten wrote:
                                                                                            > Don't recognize the box, but there are a couple of familiar envelopes. gj
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                            > From: Roger Aultman <mailto:raul@...>
                                                                                            > To: VINTAGE H-0 <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                            > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM
                                                                                            > Subject: [vintageHO] Mannor Gon
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Attached is a picture of a kit I have, wondering if there are other
                                                                                            > kits
                                                                                            > around? The box says they also made other freight cars. Roger Aultman
                                                                                            > --
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                                            > <http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm>
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/>
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >


                                                                                            --
                                                                                            http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2585 From: jimbartelt@sbcglobal.net Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mannor Gon
                                                                                            Here is a link to a completed auction on ebay for a Manor Pickle Car.
                                                                                             
                                                                                            James Bartelt
                                                                                            jimbartelt@...

                                                                                            Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s
                                                                                            http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079

                                                                                            METRO RR Club
                                                                                            http://www.metrorrclub.org

                                                                                            METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2007
                                                                                            http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html


                                                                                            ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                            From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                                                            To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                            Sent: Monday, February 5, 2007 8:29:37 PM
                                                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mannor Gon

                                                                                            Guess the manufacturers cross supplied each other back then also. Roger

                                                                                            Glenn Joesten wrote:

                                                                                            > Don't recognize the box, but there are a couple of familiar envelopes. gj
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                            > From: Roger Aultman <mailto:raul@nconnect. net>
                                                                                            > To: VINTAGE H-0 <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                            > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM
                                                                                            > Subject: [vintageHO] Mannor Gon
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Attached is a picture of a kit I have, wondering if there are other
                                                                                            > kits
                                                                                            > around? The box says they also made other freight cars. Roger Aultman
                                                                                            > --
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm
                                                                                            > <
                                                                                            rel=nofollow>http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm>
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/
                                                                                            > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/>
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >

                                                                                            --
                                                                                            http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                                                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/


                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2586 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/5/2007
                                                                                            Subject: Fwd: WGH on Tour in Portland, OR -- February 17-18, 2007
                                                                                            Attachments :


                                                                                              Note: forwarded message attached.


                                                                                              Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                                                                                              in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel
                                                                                              to find your fit.
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2587 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/6/2007
                                                                                              Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
                                                                                              Glenn- I yarded one gearbox apart today, and the bushing on this one
                                                                                              is brass, not oillite.
                                                                                              There are two collars, one on each end of the shaft.
                                                                                              They fit on the main input drive gear shaft, and are visible once
                                                                                              you remove the locomotive shell.
                                                                                              The collar portion fits on both sides of the upper and lower tower
                                                                                              portions, the shaft of the main input gear rides in it.
                                                                                              The older straight-cut gearboxes did not have these, ran plastic-on-
                                                                                              plastic.
                                                                                              Another tidbit, if you have a broken upper case, and you get a
                                                                                              replacement that was for the single-cut gears, everything works
                                                                                              EXCEPT there is a strengthening rib down the inside of the tower on
                                                                                              both sides, on the motor end.
                                                                                              I removed them with some ball-end bits I got years ago (used by
                                                                                              orthopedic surgeons when they install new joints).
                                                                                              Dave

                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Dave--I'll check my parts bin. Is it an "Oilite" bearing, sort of
                                                                                              hat shaped? gj
                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              > From: curmudgeon
                                                                                              > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM
                                                                                              > Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was
                                                                                              called "super-
                                                                                              > geared" F-units.
                                                                                              > The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight
                                                                                              cut,
                                                                                              > rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                              > On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on
                                                                                              the
                                                                                              > u-joint side, one of the open end.
                                                                                              > They appear to be identical.
                                                                                              > I need one of those bearings.
                                                                                              > The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and
                                                                                              I
                                                                                              > have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to
                                                                                              go.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Dimensions:
                                                                                              > Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                              > OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                              > ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                              > Thickness: .100"
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Anybody have a spare?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer
                                                                                              > clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed
                                                                                              them,
                                                                                              > I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Thanks.
                                                                                              > E-mail me with particulars.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Dave
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2588 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/6/2007
                                                                                              Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
                                                                                              Dave--I mailed several bearings today--see if something will work.  I usually figure if I can get the shaft size right, I can make the rest of it fit.   gj
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: curmudgeon
                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 4:52 PM
                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: One Athearn part needed

                                                                                              Glenn- I yarded one gearbox apart today, and the bushing on this one
                                                                                              is brass, not oillite.
                                                                                              There are two collars, one on each end of the shaft.
                                                                                              They fit on the main input drive gear shaft, and are visible once
                                                                                              you remove the locomotive shell.
                                                                                              The collar portion fits on both sides of the upper and lower tower
                                                                                              portions, the shaft of the main input gear rides in it.
                                                                                              The older straight-cut gearboxes did not have these, ran plastic-on-
                                                                                              plastic.
                                                                                              Another tidbit, if you have a broken upper case, and you get a
                                                                                              replacement that was for the single-cut gears, everything works
                                                                                              EXCEPT there is a strengthening rib down the inside of the tower on
                                                                                              both sides, on the motor end.
                                                                                              I removed them with some ball-end bits I got years ago (used by
                                                                                              orthopedic surgeons when they install new joints).
                                                                                              Dave

                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Dave--I'll check my parts bin. Is it an "Oilite" bearing, sort of
                                                                                              hat shaped? gj
                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              > From: curmudgeon
                                                                                              > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                              > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM
                                                                                              > Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was
                                                                                              called "super-
                                                                                              > geared" F-units.
                                                                                              > The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight
                                                                                              cut,
                                                                                              > rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                              > On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on
                                                                                              the
                                                                                              > u-joint side, one of the open end.
                                                                                              > They appear to be identical.
                                                                                              > I need one of those bearings.
                                                                                              > The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and
                                                                                              I
                                                                                              > have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to
                                                                                              go.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Dimensions:
                                                                                              > Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                              > OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                              > ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                              > Thickness: .100"
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Anybody have a spare?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer
                                                                                              > clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed
                                                                                              them,
                                                                                              > I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Thanks.
                                                                                              > E-mail me with particulars.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Dave
                                                                                              >

                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2589 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/7/2007
                                                                                              Subject: Re: One Athearn part needed
                                                                                              And I sent the driveshaft.  I looked at my Athearn parts, and all the ones I have use the same little square bearing that's used in the inside frame trucks.  As far as the coupler clips, I'm running out myself :-(
                                                                                               
                                                                                              Don
                                                                                               
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:01 PM
                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: One Athearn part needed

                                                                                              Dave--I mailed several bearings today--see if something will work.  I usually figure if I can get the shaft size right, I can make the rest of it fit.   gj
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: curmudgeon
                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 4:52 PM
                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: One Athearn part needed

                                                                                              Glenn- I yarded one gearbox apart today, and the bushing on this one
                                                                                              is brass, not oillite.
                                                                                              There are two collars, one on each end of the shaft.
                                                                                              They fit on the main input drive gear shaft, and are visible once
                                                                                              you remove the locomotive shell.
                                                                                              The collar portion fits on both sides of the upper and lower tower
                                                                                              portions, the shaft of the main input gear rides in it.
                                                                                              The older straight-cut gearboxes did not have these, ran plastic-on-
                                                                                              plastic.
                                                                                              Another tidbit, if you have a broken upper case, and you get a
                                                                                              replacement that was for the single-cut gears, everything works
                                                                                              EXCEPT there is a strengthening rib down the inside of the tower on
                                                                                              both sides, on the motor end.
                                                                                              I removed them with some ball-end bits I got years ago (used by
                                                                                              orthopedic surgeons when they install new joints).
                                                                                              Dave

                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Dave--I'll check my parts bin. Is it an "Oilite" bearing, sort of
                                                                                              hat shaped? gj
                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              > From: curmudgeon
                                                                                              > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                              > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:50 PM
                                                                                              > Subject: [vintageHO] One Athearn part needed
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was
                                                                                              called "super-
                                                                                              > geared" F-units.
                                                                                              > The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight
                                                                                              cut,
                                                                                              > rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                              > On the top input gear are bronze bearings, with collars, one on
                                                                                              the
                                                                                              > u-joint side, one of the open end.
                                                                                              > They appear to be identical.
                                                                                              > I need one of those bearings.
                                                                                              > The old tower was broken out at that end around the bearing, and
                                                                                              I
                                                                                              > have all the bits (including the new tower), cleaned up ready to
                                                                                              go.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Dimensions:
                                                                                              > Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                              > OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                              > ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                              > Thickness: .100"
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Anybody have a spare?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > While you're looking, any of those spring-steel coupler retainer
                                                                                              > clips like for Geeps, F's, and SW's?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > I am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed
                                                                                              them,
                                                                                              > I could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Thanks.
                                                                                              > E-mail me with particulars.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Dave
                                                                                              >

                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2590 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/7/2007
                                                                                              Subject: Oddball Geep
                                                                                              I made a post a while back about this oddball Geep with the nose
                                                                                              VERY wide as compared to the prime-mover hood.
                                                                                              8-wheel drive, Pittman clone on the front block (hence the WIDE nose
                                                                                              hood), but didn't know what it was.

                                                                                              Got the shell in the latest box of crXp from my brother.

                                                                                              UP yellow and gray, with red AT&SF on the hood, same color as the
                                                                                              cab number.

                                                                                              On the side of the short hood, right above where one would expect
                                                                                              the side walkway to be, it says:






                                                                                              MARX

                                                                                              Never seen one before, I don't think.
                                                                                              MARX HO.

                                                                                              Hooooooooooooooo-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2591 From: joeandrews1 Date: 2/8/2007
                                                                                              Subject: New member
                                                                                              Hello All, I just discovered this group and I think maybe I'm a
                                                                                              legitimate candidate to join. I've been in HO since 1950 (when I was
                                                                                              12) and my first car kit was a metal Athearn Western Fruit Express
                                                                                              reefer. My mother thought I was in over my head because of all the
                                                                                              trouble I had assembling that kit. There sure were a lot of tiny
                                                                                              parts. I still have that car although it's been upgraded with Kadees
                                                                                              and better trucks. I was beside myself when Roundhouse advertised a
                                                                                              tremendous sale on their all metal car kits. I bought about a dozen
                                                                                              and I still have about 9 or 10 unbuilt. I didn't realize that they
                                                                                              were disposing of the metal kits to make way for their soon to emerge
                                                                                              plastic car kits. My first loco was the Mantua shifter. I also still
                                                                                              have it except that it has long ago disintegrated into powder. I don't
                                                                                              presently have a layout but I do have about 25 plastic bins loaded
                                                                                              with HO equipment. Every once in a while, I pull something out and
                                                                                              work on it. The item I pick may be brand new or it may be 57 years
                                                                                              old. I'm looking forward to being a member of this group and I hope I
                                                                                              can contibute something of value or interest.
                                                                                              Joe
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2592 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 2/8/2007
                                                                                              Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                              Welcome!!!

                                                                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                              From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
                                                                                              Academy Awards�
                                                                                              http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2593 From: oahurailway Date: 2/8/2007
                                                                                              Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "joeandrews1" <joeandrews1@...>
                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Hello All, I just discovered this group and I think maybe I'm a
                                                                                              > legitimate candidate to join. I've been in HO since 1950 (when I
                                                                                              was
                                                                                              > 12) and my first car kit was a metal Athearn Western Fruit Express
                                                                                              > reefer. My mother thought I was in over my head because of all the
                                                                                              > trouble I had assembling that kit. There sure were a lot of tiny
                                                                                              > parts. I still have that car although it's been upgraded with
                                                                                              Kadees
                                                                                              > and better trucks. I was beside myself when Roundhouse advertised a
                                                                                              > tremendous sale on their all metal car kits. I bought about a dozen
                                                                                              > and I still have about 9 or 10 unbuilt. I didn't realize that they
                                                                                              > were disposing of the metal kits to make way for their soon to
                                                                                              emerge
                                                                                              > plastic car kits. My first loco was the Mantua shifter. I also
                                                                                              still
                                                                                              > have it except that it has long ago disintegrated into powder. I
                                                                                              don't
                                                                                              > presently have a layout but I do have about 25 plastic bins loaded
                                                                                              > with HO equipment. Every once in a while, I pull something out and
                                                                                              > work on it. The item I pick may be brand new or it may be 57 years
                                                                                              > old. I'm looking forward to being a member of this group and I hope
                                                                                              I
                                                                                              > can contibute something of value or interest.
                                                                                              > Joe



                                                                                              Welcome aboard Joe! Ken
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2594 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/9/2007
                                                                                              Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: "joeandrews1" <joeandrews1@...>
                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 11:08 PM
                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] New member


                                                                                              > Hello All, I just discovered this group and I think maybe I'm a
                                                                                              > legitimate candidate to join. I've been in HO since 1950 (when I was
                                                                                              > 12) and my first car kit was a metal Athearn Western Fruit Express
                                                                                              > reefer. My mother thought I was in over my head because of all the
                                                                                              > trouble I had assembling that kit. There sure were a lot of tiny
                                                                                              > parts. I still have that car although it's been upgraded with Kadees
                                                                                              > and better trucks. I was beside myself when Roundhouse advertised a
                                                                                              > tremendous sale on their all metal car kits. I bought about a dozen
                                                                                              > and I still have about 9 or 10 unbuilt. I didn't realize that they
                                                                                              > were disposing of the metal kits to make way for their soon to emerge
                                                                                              > plastic car kits. My first loco was the Mantua shifter. I also still
                                                                                              > have it except that it has long ago disintegrated into powder. I don't
                                                                                              > presently have a layout but I do have about 25 plastic bins loaded
                                                                                              > with HO equipment. Every once in a while, I pull something out and
                                                                                              > work on it. The item I pick may be brand new or it may be 57 years
                                                                                              > old. I'm looking forward to being a member of this group and I hope I
                                                                                              > can contibute something of value or interest.
                                                                                              > Joe

                                                                                              Glad to have you with us. I think you'll enjoy it here.

                                                                                              Don

                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                              Co-owner
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2595 From: sean naylor Date: 2/9/2007
                                                                                              Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                              HELLO, oops ! There I go yelling again!
                                                                                              I think you find  this group a terrific resource to interesting information.
                                                                                               
                                                                                              Sean

                                                                                              Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: "joeandrews1" <joeandrews1@ yahoo.com>
                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 11:08 PM
                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                              > Hello All, I just discovered this group and I think maybe I'm a
                                                                                              > legitimate candidate to join. I've been in HO since 1950 (when I was
                                                                                              > 12) and my first car kit was a metal Athearn Western Fruit Express
                                                                                              > reefer. My mother thought I was in over my head because of all the
                                                                                              > trouble I had assembling that kit. There sure were a lot of tiny
                                                                                              > parts. I still have that car although it's been upgraded with Kadees
                                                                                              > and better trucks. I was beside myself when Roundhouse advertised a
                                                                                              > tremendous sale on their all metal car kits. I bought about a dozen
                                                                                              > and I still have about 9 or 10 unbuilt. I didn't realize that they
                                                                                              > were disposing of the metal kits to make way for their soon to emerge
                                                                                              > plastic car kits. My first loco was the Mantua shifter. I also still
                                                                                              > have it except that it has long ago disintegrated into powder. I don't
                                                                                              > presently have a layout but I do have about 25 plastic bins loaded
                                                                                              > with HO equipment. Every once in a while, I pull something out and
                                                                                              > work on it. The item I pick may be brand new or it may be 57 years
                                                                                              > old. I'm looking forward to being a member of this group and I hope I
                                                                                              > can contibute something of value or interest.
                                                                                              > Joe

                                                                                              Glad to have you with us. I think you'll enjoy it here.

                                                                                              Don

                                                                                              don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                              http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                              Co-owner
                                                                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY



                                                                                              Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2596 From: Askerberg Date: 2/9/2007
                                                                                              Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                              Welcome, Joe. Your history in the hobby closely parallels mine. I
                                                                                              built my first HO model in May, 1950. It was a Roundhouse (MDC)
                                                                                              Pennsy 40' boxcar. I still have that model with its almost matching
                                                                                              410M paint. I have left it just as I assembled it with incomplete
                                                                                              removal of the flash. I had replaced the couplers with Kaydees, but
                                                                                              I can now replace them with a pair of the Roundhouse auto couplers
                                                                                              that came with the kit. That way it will mate nicely with the
                                                                                              English A5 Yardbird switcher that was my first loco. I picked up the
                                                                                              Yardbird a few years ago at a swap meet. The way it is assembled and
                                                                                              decorated leads me to believe it could actually be the very one I had
                                                                                              owned originally. I'll never know for sure. It's a pleasant
                                                                                              contemplation, however.

                                                                                              Nostalgia is fun.

                                                                                              Al
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2597 From: sean naylor Date: 2/10/2007
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                Hello Ken,
                                                                                                It seems to me that you may be the Varney Guro, so here is another one for you...  I just purchased this varney brass hudson engine... It does not have a chassis. I have two brass varney chassis from 4-6-2's One sprung and one not. I was wondering if you thought they might work or if I should look elswere... Or, better yet... do know of or have instructions / directions for it? Thanks, Sean


                                                                                                Finding fabulous fares is fun.
                                                                                                Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2598 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/10/2007
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                                That could come in handy in a fight!  I think that Varney's Pacific and Hudson chassis were the same--so whatever you can find should fit. Or try Bowser. 
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:39 PM
                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

                                                                                                Hello Ken,
                                                                                                It seems to me that you may be the Varney Guro, so here is another one for you...  I just purchased this varney brass hudson engine... It does not have a chassis. I have two brass varney chassis from 4-6-2's One sprung and one not. I was wondering if you thought they might work or if I should look elswere... Or, better yet... do know of or have instructions / directions for it? Thanks, Sean


                                                                                                Finding fabulous fares is fun.
                                                                                                Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.



                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2599 From: oahurailway Date: 2/10/2007
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Hello Ken,
                                                                                                > It seems to me that you may be the Varney Guro, so here is another
                                                                                                one for you... I just purchased this varney brass hudson engine... It
                                                                                                does not have a chassis. I have two brass varney chassis from 4-6-2's
                                                                                                One sprung and one not. I was wondering if you thought they might work
                                                                                                or if I should look elswere... Or, better yet... do know of or have
                                                                                                instructions / directions for it? Thanks, Sean
                                                                                                >


                                                                                                Hi Sean, & thanks a bunch for the CV instruction sheet! Here are two
                                                                                                quotes from Dave Spanagel's "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains" book,
                                                                                                pg.54: "Some features(of the Varney #2000K (standard) streamlined 4-6-4
                                                                                                Hudsons with rigid frame) matched Varney's other Economy models, such
                                                                                                as the Pittman DC-71 motor and the unsprung U-shaped channel frame
                                                                                                borrowed fron the Pacific. The four-wheel pilot truck assembly (1936A)
                                                                                                and the simplified unsprung 1792S trailing truck were used, along with
                                                                                                scale 72-inch spoked drivers(again from the Pacific)and 1783 valve gear
                                                                                                kit with Laird crossheads." Also Mr. Spanagel speaking of the non-
                                                                                                streamlined Varney Economy Hudson said: "Like the streamlined version,
                                                                                                the U-shaped frame from the Pacific, scale 72-inch drivers, and Pittman
                                                                                                DC-71 motor were used." & "The unsprung pilot and trailing trucks,
                                                                                                numbers 1936A and 1792S respectively, came with this kit, along with
                                                                                                the 1829P valve gear that had been used on the Economy Pacific."

                                                                                                So judging from the above two quotes, I'd have to agree with what
                                                                                                Glenn posted as a response. Thanx again....Ken
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2600 From: oahurailway Date: 2/10/2007
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oahurailway" <two.peaks@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Hello Ken,
                                                                                                > > It seems to me that you may be the Varney Guro, so here is
                                                                                                another
                                                                                                > one for you... I just purchased this varney brass hudson engine...
                                                                                                It
                                                                                                > does not have a chassis. I have two brass varney chassis from 4-6-
                                                                                                2's
                                                                                                > One sprung and one not. I was wondering if you thought they might
                                                                                                work
                                                                                                > or if I should look elswere... Or, better yet... do know of or have
                                                                                                > instructions / directions for it? Thanks, Sean
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > I forgot to mention Sean, that there are some Varney loco
                                                                                                diagrams located at: http://www.hoseeker.net under Literature,
                                                                                                Varney. Ken
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2601 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/10/2007
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                                >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                >From: sean naylor
                                                                                                >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                >Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 6:39 PM
                                                                                                >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.


                                                                                                >Hello Ken,
                                                                                                >It seems to me that you may be the Varney Guro, so here is another one for
                                                                                                >you... I just purchased this varney brass hudson engine... It does not
                                                                                                >have a chassis. I <have two brass varney chassis from 4-6-2's One sprung
                                                                                                >and one not. I was wondering if you thought they might work or if I should
                                                                                                >look elswere... Or, better >yet... do know of or have instructions /
                                                                                                >directions for it? Thanks, Sean

                                                                                                Others have pretty much answered your question, but FWIW, in my 1947
                                                                                                catalog, there is no kit yet, but your boiler is listed as follows:

                                                                                                "Streamlined Pacific. This sleek job is easy. The heavy brass boiler (page
                                                                                                39) is readily adapted to either the Economy pacific or the Super HO-Pacific
                                                                                                running gear. The stamped brass skirts are attached to the running board by
                                                                                                drive fitted escutcheon pins, filed flush. The "nose" amd pilot may be
                                                                                                altered to conform to your favorite prototype. If you worship the Iron
                                                                                                Horse and want to pull Streamliners, this is your meat. No complete kit
                                                                                                available at this time."

                                                                                                Two different versions (sprung and unsprung) of the 4 wheel trailing truck
                                                                                                to convert either Pacific into a Hudson are also shown in the same catalog.

                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                Co-owner
                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2602 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/11/2007
                                                                                                Subject: File - Cover Photo Contest
                                                                                                Remember to vote in our new cover photo contest now.

                                                                                                For the month of February, we have an open poll
                                                                                                for all the members to vote on the photo of their
                                                                                                choice in the "a contest" album. The winner will
                                                                                                be the new cover photo for at least till mid summer.
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2603 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/11/2007
                                                                                                Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                  Please count my vote for; Walthers Baltic MILW locomotive.

                                                                                                  Don L. Leistikow
                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2604 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/11/2007
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
                                                                                                  Votes are not counted from email, you need to go to the group polls page to
                                                                                                  cast your vote.

                                                                                                  This SHOULD take you right to the poll.
                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/surveys?id=2140175

                                                                                                  If not, go the group home page and click on "polls", then click on the poll
                                                                                                  you want to vote in.

                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                  Co-owner
                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY



                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                  From: <DLeistikow@...>
                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:21 PM
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest


                                                                                                  > Please count my vote for; Walthers Baltic MILW locomotive.
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Don L. Leistikow
                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2605 From: sean naylor Date: 2/11/2007
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
                                                                                                  Don,
                                                                                                  I think I voted... I hit "vote" and the page just blinked and looked the same... Did not go anywhere else...???? I hit it a couple of times... hope it took.... Sean
                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  Votes are not counted from email, you need to go to the group polls page to
                                                                                                  cast your vote.

                                                                                                  This SHOULD take you right to the poll.
                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ surveys?id= 2140175

                                                                                                  If not, go the group home page and click on "polls", then click on the poll
                                                                                                  you want to vote in.

                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                  don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                  Co-owner
                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                  From: <DLeistikow@webtv. net>
                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:21 PM
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest

                                                                                                  > Please count my vote for; Walthers Baltic MILW locomotive.
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Don L. Leistikow



                                                                                                  Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2606 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/11/2007
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: File - Cover Photo Contest
                                                                                                  Your vote should have counted.  I DO see a couple more cast than there were an hour ago.  If you're used to polls that show the results, this one is set to not show the results until the poll is closed which is why it acted the way it did.
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  Don
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:22 PM
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest

                                                                                                  Don,
                                                                                                  I think I voted... I hit "vote" and the page just blinked and looked the same... Did not go anywhere else...???? I hit it a couple of times... hope it took.... Sean
                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  Votes are not counted from email, you need to go to the group polls page to
                                                                                                  cast your vote.

                                                                                                  This SHOULD take you right to the poll.
                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO/ surveys?id= 2140175

                                                                                                  If not, go the group home page and click on "polls", then click on the poll
                                                                                                  you want to vote in.

                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                  don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                  Co-owner
                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                  From: <DLeistikow@webtv. net>
                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:21 PM
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] File - Cover Photo Contest

                                                                                                  > Please count my vote for; Walthers Baltic MILW locomotive.
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Don L. Leistikow



                                                                                                  Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2607 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/12/2007
                                                                                                  Subject: New Stuff
                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                    This past Saturday was the Greater Houston Train Show, sponsored by
                                                                                                    the San Jacinto Model Railroad Club. I found a few nice old items that
                                                                                                    convinced me to part with some hard-earned cash.
                                                                                                    The first photo shows an Ambroid 25th Anniversary 2-in-One kit for a
                                                                                                    Milwaukee Composite Gondola and a N&W Hopper car. You can see in the
                                                                                                    photo that the gondola has been started and the previous owner has done
                                                                                                    a very nice job on the bottom and sides to this point. Looking at the
                                                                                                    pieces left in the box I'm not sure that everything is there to build
                                                                                                    the hopper car, but the full decal sheet is still there. I only paid $2
                                                                                                    for it as is so it was well worth it. I have a few other copies of this
                                                                                                    kit and one or two of them are partially built also.
                                                                                                    The second photo is of a Main Line Models SP wood boxcar. This one
                                                                                                    has not been started yet, so I get the fun of doing the whole thing.
                                                                                                    Unfortunately, as you might be able to make out in the photo, the rubber
                                                                                                    bands deteriorated or melted and stuck to the roof and bottom pieces. I
                                                                                                    hope I can clean it up sufficiently so that the paint goes on evenly.
                                                                                                    Maybe a coat of sanding sealer first (I never use it).
                                                                                                    The third and fourth photos show a real oddball. It's a kit for a
                                                                                                    1915 Model "T" Rail Truck. The instruction sheet says it's by
                                                                                                    Distinctive Scale Models in Lincoln, NE. It says the inspiration was an
                                                                                                    article by Sherman T. Dance in the January, 1963 MR. This looks like one
                                                                                                    of those home-brew and sold kits. That fourth photo shows the exploded
                                                                                                    plans from one of the pages. There's not much to the kit, but it looked
                                                                                                    intriguing and does include the motor. The metal parts for the gearbox
                                                                                                    and front truck have not been bent to shape yet, so that's going to be a
                                                                                                    real challenge to get it right and true. I paid $10 each for this one
                                                                                                    and the SP boxcar.

                                                                                                    --

                                                                                                    Rick Jones

                                                                                                    The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                                    "The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which
                                                                                                    failed to start because of the following error: The operation completed
                                                                                                    successfully."
                                                                                                    -Windows NT Server v3.51
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2608 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/12/2007
                                                                                                    Subject: Prices
                                                                                                    I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun.
                                                                                                    I perused various shops, including antique with the wife.
                                                                                                    I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the
                                                                                                    brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers
                                                                                                    were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half
                                                                                                    the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color
                                                                                                    (probably due to moist storage), $27.50.

                                                                                                    I offerred $20 for parts.
                                                                                                    Nope.
                                                                                                    Antique. Worth a bundle.
                                                                                                    I walked.

                                                                                                    Found some AHM artics in Tillamook.
                                                                                                    The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!"

                                                                                                    I was uncharacteristically nice, explained they were older, yes,
                                                                                                    HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he
                                                                                                    claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many
                                                                                                    zeroes.

                                                                                                    The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and
                                                                                                    handed them to her.
                                                                                                    Asked her to read the address.
                                                                                                    She did, almost all of it.
                                                                                                    I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that.
                                                                                                    I told her 1963.
                                                                                                    Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963.

                                                                                                    She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat.

                                                                                                    Hopefully not anyone on this forum........
                                                                                                    Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine?

                                                                                                    Lordhavemercy.

                                                                                                    Dave
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2609 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 2/12/2007
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                    It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if he did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it that's his falt.  Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is out of line.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun.
                                                                                                    I perused various shops, including antique with the wife.
                                                                                                    I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the
                                                                                                    brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers
                                                                                                    were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half
                                                                                                    the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color
                                                                                                    (probably due to moist storage), $27.50.

                                                                                                    I offerred $20 for parts.
                                                                                                    Nope.
                                                                                                    Antique. Worth a bundle.
                                                                                                    I walked.

                                                                                                    Found some AHM artics in Tillamook.
                                                                                                    The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!"

                                                                                                    I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes,
                                                                                                    HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he
                                                                                                    claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many
                                                                                                    zeroes.

                                                                                                    The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and
                                                                                                    handed them to her.
                                                                                                    Asked her to read the address.
                                                                                                    She did, almost all of it.
                                                                                                    I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that.
                                                                                                    I told her 1963.
                                                                                                    Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963.

                                                                                                    She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat.

                                                                                                    Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... .
                                                                                                    Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine?

                                                                                                    Lordhavemercy.

                                                                                                    Dave





                                                                                                    No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                                    with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2610 From: Don RIley Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                    Reads like you found some junk!!! That old Athearn engine is worth
                                                                                                    nothing! I have a bunch of those early Athearn engines around here. I
                                                                                                    have at least one of every veriation of F7 or GP7 offered. Yes there
                                                                                                    weere more then a few of um! I have um in assorted conditions. But
                                                                                                    most are fairly close to mint. And at this point I would only buy one
                                                                                                    that is VERY close to mint. Box is not required. But if anything is
                                                                                                    not there I do not want it! Well handrails are no big deal. But aside
                                                                                                    from that. And yes I have several I operate. Included is one of thsoe
                                                                                                    old SP GP7s with red lettering instead of white! Never have figured
                                                                                                    out what was up with the red letters. I think I have two of um but I
                                                                                                    can not seem to find the other. BTW back to handrails. Man Athearn
                                                                                                    really blew um!! I mean gad! Those things are CRAP!!! I long ago
                                                                                                    stoped even trying to install um because they break and come apart.
                                                                                                    Uprights even come apart! They are only bent to make the eye for the
                                                                                                    top rail. I know I can still get um for GP7s. Will the GP35 set work
                                                                                                    on a GP30? I ask because I have in the box GP30s that I would like to
                                                                                                    add a handrail set to the box just to make it comeplete. Was thinking
                                                                                                    about getting GP35 rails. And while I do own an Athearn GP35 I can
                                                                                                    not seem to find it. Yeah I got boxes of trains. They are from a big
                                                                                                    layout I used to have. Had to take it apart when we moved. No room
                                                                                                    for it anymore. So the fleet is boxed up. Have a small layout I run
                                                                                                    but no need for the huge fleet I once ran. So most of um stay boxed.

                                                                                                    As for the other cars. Well not sure what to say. Yeah I too have
                                                                                                    been quoted silly prices. Yeah they kept there models.

                                                                                                    As for the Riv steamer. Well either she got fooled or was just trying
                                                                                                    to fool you. Good catch on the zip code!

                                                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun.
                                                                                                    > I perused various shops, including antique with the wife.
                                                                                                    > I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the
                                                                                                    > brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers
                                                                                                    > were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half
                                                                                                    > the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color
                                                                                                    > (probably due to moist storage), $27.50.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I offerred $20 for parts.
                                                                                                    > Nope.
                                                                                                    > Antique. Worth a bundle.
                                                                                                    > I walked.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Found some AHM artics in Tillamook.
                                                                                                    > The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!"
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I was uncharacteristically nice, explained they were older, yes,
                                                                                                    > HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he
                                                                                                    > claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many
                                                                                                    > zeroes.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and
                                                                                                    > handed them to her.
                                                                                                    > Asked her to read the address.
                                                                                                    > She did, almost all of it.
                                                                                                    > I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that.
                                                                                                    > I told her 1963.
                                                                                                    > Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Hopefully not anyone on this forum........
                                                                                                    > Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine?
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Lordhavemercy.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Dave
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2611 From: Don RIley Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                    Yeah I hear you there!! But remember it happened at an antique store!
                                                                                                    They are bad for riping people off! They cater to people with FAT
                                                                                                    wallets and small brains. Or those who really do not know what is
                                                                                                    what.

                                                                                                    BTW one of my other hobbies is Chevy Celebrities. They were a mid
                                                                                                    sized car made in the 80's. At least one of you here probably either
                                                                                                    has one now or did have one in the past. They are nice roomy cars.
                                                                                                    And they will last forever! I got one in October of last year for a
                                                                                                    mere $300. Granted the registration was a mess but still not a bad
                                                                                                    price for a running car! I mention this because when ever I think of
                                                                                                    paying $500 for an HO scale model I think of buying cars cheaper! Oh
                                                                                                    btw if any of the rest of you happen to have one of those cars there
                                                                                                    are two yahoogroups for um.

                                                                                                    Steamengine4449

                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...>
                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if he
                                                                                                    did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it
                                                                                                    that's his falt. Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is
                                                                                                    out of line.
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2612 From: John Barlow Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
                                                                                                    Dear Group,
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it came from a pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if one wishes to be fancy in the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time has passed us anyway.  A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how many times has it been repeated-even in brass?
                                                                                                    It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at $9.99...please. Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola that is supposed to be of the "Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big scale.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101.  It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally fraudulent and should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over and make it into a private roadname with my blessing.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for "extinct" some day?
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Some pieces are underated...and have historic (to prototype) value. It takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be valued and are worth a collector's consideration, but at what price? Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades. If so...they are, to my thinking, junk. They bear witness to an older technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to whether one is building a private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along the track behind power or be the power itself. Control nostalgia-do not let it control your pocketbook.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    John
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                      


                                                                                                    Finding fabulous fares is fun.
                                                                                                    Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2613 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                    Subject: Manor car kits
                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                      A couple days ago Roger was asking about "Manor" car kits. I'm not familiar
                                                                                                      with them, but while perusing a copy of the October 1946 Model Railroader
                                                                                                      this morning while doing my morning "duties" <G>, I did come across this ad.

                                                                                                      Please forgive the bad copy, my scanner has decided it doesn't want to work
                                                                                                      any more, so I had to do it photographically.

                                                                                                      Don

                                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                      Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                      Co-owner
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2614 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New Stuff
                                                                                                      Some nice finds, I wouldn't mind any one of them.

                                                                                                      Don

                                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                      Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                      Co-owner
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...>
                                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:24 PM
                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] New Stuff


                                                                                                      > This past Saturday was the Greater Houston Train Show, sponsored by
                                                                                                      > the San Jacinto Model Railroad Club. I found a few nice old items that
                                                                                                      > convinced me to part with some hard-earned cash.
                                                                                                      > The first photo shows an Ambroid 25th Anniversary 2-in-One kit for a
                                                                                                      > Milwaukee Composite Gondola and a N&W Hopper car. You can see in the
                                                                                                      > photo that the gondola has been started and the previous owner has done
                                                                                                      > a very nice job on the bottom and sides to this point. Looking at the
                                                                                                      > pieces left in the box I'm not sure that everything is there to build
                                                                                                      > the hopper car, but the full decal sheet is still there. I only paid $2
                                                                                                      > for it as is so it was well worth it. I have a few other copies of this
                                                                                                      > kit and one or two of them are partially built also.
                                                                                                      > The second photo is of a Main Line Models SP wood boxcar. This one
                                                                                                      > has not been started yet, so I get the fun of doing the whole thing.
                                                                                                      > Unfortunately, as you might be able to make out in the photo, the rubber
                                                                                                      > bands deteriorated or melted and stuck to the roof and bottom pieces. I
                                                                                                      > hope I can clean it up sufficiently so that the paint goes on evenly.
                                                                                                      > Maybe a coat of sanding sealer first (I never use it).
                                                                                                      > The third and fourth photos show a real oddball. It's a kit for a
                                                                                                      > 1915 Model "T" Rail Truck. The instruction sheet says it's by
                                                                                                      > Distinctive Scale Models in Lincoln, NE. It says the inspiration was an
                                                                                                      > article by Sherman T. Dance in the January, 1963 MR. This looks like one
                                                                                                      > of those home-brew and sold kits. That fourth photo shows the exploded
                                                                                                      > plans from one of the pages. There's not much to the kit, but it looked
                                                                                                      > intriguing and does include the motor. The metal parts for the gearbox
                                                                                                      > and front truck have not been bent to shape yet, so that's going to be a
                                                                                                      > real challenge to get it right and true. I paid $10 each for this one
                                                                                                      > and the SP boxcar.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > --
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Rick Jones
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                      > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > "The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which
                                                                                                      > failed to start because of the following error: The operation completed
                                                                                                      > successfully."
                                                                                                      > -Windows NT Server v3.51
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2615 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
                                                                                                      >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      >From: John Barlow
                                                                                                      >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 3:24 AM
                                                                                                      >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"


                                                                                                      >Dear Group,

                                                                                                      >Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out
                                                                                                      >there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it
                                                                                                      >came from a >pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know
                                                                                                      >that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if
                                                                                                      >one wishes to be fancy in >the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now.

                                                                                                      >I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly
                                                                                                      >cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time
                                                                                                      >has passed us >anyway. A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how
                                                                                                      >many times has it been repeated-even in brass?
                                                                                                      >It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap
                                                                                                      >shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at
                                                                                                      >$9.99...please. >Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess
                                                                                                      >again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola
                                                                                                      >that is supposed to be of the >"Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A
                                                                                                      >of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big
                                                                                                      >scale.

                                                                                                      >Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101.
                                                                                                      >It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally
                                                                                                      >fraudulent and >should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA
                                                                                                      >Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over
                                                                                                      >and make it into a private >roadname with my blessing.

                                                                                                      >I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for
                                                                                                      >"extinct" some day?

                                                                                                      >Some pieces are underated...and have historic (to prototype) value. It
                                                                                                      >takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be
                                                                                                      >valued and are >worth a collector's consideration, but at what price?
                                                                                                      >Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades.
                                                                                                      >If so...they are, to my thinking, >junk. They bear witness to an older
                                                                                                      >technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once
                                                                                                      >rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to >whether one is building a
                                                                                                      >private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along
                                                                                                      >the track behind power or be the power itself. Control >nostalgia-do not
                                                                                                      >let it control your pocketbook.

                                                                                                      >John

                                                                                                      I think you miss the point a bit of what this group is about. We never
                                                                                                      claim that the old products were "state of the art". Surely there are more
                                                                                                      prototypical models out today, with greater detail for less effort (other
                                                                                                      than writing the check to pay the Visa Card bill), but if prototypical
                                                                                                      accuarcy and having the latest state of the art models running on your
                                                                                                      layout is your thing, then this is probably not the group to follow.
                                                                                                      However, a BIG part of what we're about IS nostalgia, nostalgia for the days
                                                                                                      when one actually BUILT a model railroad instead of buying it, when one
                                                                                                      could take a kit and add the detail parts one wanted, when one could take
                                                                                                      pride in the fact that "I built that", not "look how high the credit limit
                                                                                                      is on my Visa". Anyway, if I want a "shorty" Penn Line GG-1 painted New
                                                                                                      Haven, then by golly I'll FIND a Penn Line shorty GG-1 painted New Haven
                                                                                                      <G>.

                                                                                                      I DO agree that there IS a LOT of junk out there at vastly inflated prices.
                                                                                                      I also feel that this group does a very good job of educating the members
                                                                                                      what to watch out for, and I think we all have a good idea of what these
                                                                                                      things are really worth in the open market. What a particular piece is
                                                                                                      worth to an individual is totally dependent on that individual. One man's
                                                                                                      junk is another man's treasure. If a model has value to you for sentimental
                                                                                                      reasons, then that's what it's worth to you.
                                                                                                      There is a lot of vintage out there at reasonable prices (I bought a third
                                                                                                      Varney Virginian hopper yeaterday on eBay, ninety nine cents!) You just
                                                                                                      have to look for it.
                                                                                                      I don't think anyone here thinks they're going to be able to retire on the
                                                                                                      proceeds of their collection. This group is NOT for the "collector" who
                                                                                                      buys things to sit on the shelf and appreciate in value. This group is for
                                                                                                      people who just love those old trains from their youth, and still enjoy
                                                                                                      running them on their layout. Look through my various photos in my albums on
                                                                                                      the group's home page. EVERY piece of rolling stock there RUNS on my
                                                                                                      layout, and the only reason it may sit on a shelf is because I have to
                                                                                                      regularly cycle cars off the layout because I have about twice as many as
                                                                                                      the layout will hold. I may also point out, that in all those freight cars,
                                                                                                      there's only ONE that I paid more than $10 for. (The Thomas wine car, $20).

                                                                                                      As far as quality, I will say that there is a lot of vintage that IS better
                                                                                                      than the made in China stuff that dominates today's market. Sure, that
                                                                                                      latest plastic locomotive has great detail, but if you actually OPERATE it
                                                                                                      chances are in few years half those flimsy plastic parts will have broken
                                                                                                      off. That's assuming the locomotive will even RUN after a few years, and
                                                                                                      when it DOES stop running, have fun getting parts. I have an Athearn bodied
                                                                                                      Hobbytown GP-7 that's 50 years old that still runs fine. (and FWIW I paid
                                                                                                      $25 for it, less than it sold for new). I recently paid abother list
                                                                                                      member $100 for a BRASS Fairbanks Morse Erie, that's less than the price of
                                                                                                      the new Walthers/Lifelike one, and it will probably still be running long
                                                                                                      after all the plastic ones have been consigned to the scrap heap.

                                                                                                      On my layout Mantua cars from the 1940's lock couplers with P-2K cars of
                                                                                                      today, and you know something? When they're passing by in a train you can't
                                                                                                      tell which is which!

                                                                                                      Don

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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2616 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      From: "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...>
                                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:07 PM
                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Prices


                                                                                                      >I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun.
                                                                                                      > I perused various shops, including antique with the wife.
                                                                                                      > I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the
                                                                                                      > brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers
                                                                                                      > were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half
                                                                                                      > the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color
                                                                                                      > (probably due to moist storage), $27.50.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > I offerred $20 for parts.
                                                                                                      > Nope.
                                                                                                      > Antique. Worth a bundle.
                                                                                                      > I walked.

                                                                                                      Actually at $20 you'd be doing her a favor. The last "antique" Athearn Geep
                                                                                                      I bought was on a HOBBYTOWN chassis, everything there, in the original GN
                                                                                                      colors with the extra striping. $25 in a HOBBY SHOP!

                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Found some AHM artics in Tillamook.
                                                                                                      > The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!"
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > I was uncharacteristically nice, explained they were older, yes,
                                                                                                      > HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he
                                                                                                      > claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many
                                                                                                      > zeroes.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and
                                                                                                      > handed them to her.
                                                                                                      > Asked her to read the address.
                                                                                                      > She did, almost all of it.
                                                                                                      > I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that.
                                                                                                      > I told her 1963.
                                                                                                      > Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Hopefully not anyone on this forum........
                                                                                                      > Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine?
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Lordhavemercy.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Dave

                                                                                                      Is that any worse than people asking $200 for Botchman? Unfortunately
                                                                                                      people do pay this kind of money, which makes it harder on us. I do think
                                                                                                      most of us here are smarter than that though <G>.

                                                                                                      Don

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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2617 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
                                                                                                      I suppose it is all in the eye of the beholder. One mans junk is another mans treasure. Just because "you" don't like it doesn't mean I can't. I am not a rivet or window counter.I do not sit around worrying about how something purchased by the Southern Pacific varied from one built for the Pensy.
                                                                                                      I happen to be collecting older Athearn. Yes I am aware that some (all?) of it is not prototypical. I happen to like the old rubber band drive so I collect that. I love to watch them race around my oval at 200mph. I particularly like the fantasy New Haven snow bird scheme, so I have 3 ABA sets and growing.  I also like the tricolor RDC jobs, so I have some of those. Sure Hustlers are not real likely to be found but I colllect those too.
                                                                                                      I am also into the Athearn metal RDC cars. I only have a few, but if they are within my budget at the moment I buy them as I find them. Same with Athearn metal cranes. I have 4 nice ones and more that are not as good, and so it goes.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Bottom line: I just like having the stuff.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Wobbly913

                                                                                                      John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      Dear Group,
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it came from a pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if one wishes to be fancy in the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time has passed us anyway.  A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how many times has it been repeated-even in brass?
                                                                                                      It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at $9.99...please. Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola that is supposed to be of the "Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big scale.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101.  It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally fraudulent and should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over and make it into a private roadname with my blessing.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for "extinct" some day?
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Some pieces are underated...and have historic (to prototype) value. It takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be valued and are worth a collector's consideration, but at what price? Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades. If so...they are, to my thinking, junk. They bear witness to an older technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to whether one is building a private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along the track behind power or be the power itself. Control nostalgia-do not let it control your pocketbook.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      John
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                        

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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2618 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                      Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Prices
                                                                                                      >Is that any worse than people asking $200 for Botchman? Unfortunately
                                                                                                      >people do pay this kind of money, which makes it harder on us. I do think
                                                                                                      >most of us here are smarter than that though <G>.

                                                                                                      You mean the $200 for Botchman wasn't a deal???? :-)

                                                                                                      Loren

                                                                                                      _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                      Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your
                                                                                                      Live.com page.
                                                                                                      http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2619 From: John Hagen Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                      Subject: FW: Re: [vintageHO] Prices
                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Salt&Pepper Whoknows"
                                                                                                      <saltnpepper69@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > >Is that any worse than people asking $200 for Botchman?
                                                                                                      Unfortunately
                                                                                                      > >people do pay this kind of money, which makes it harder on us. I
                                                                                                      do think
                                                                                                      > >most of us here are smarter than that though <G>.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > You mean the $200 for Botchman wasn't a deal???? :-)
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Loren

                                                                                                      Oh, it's one heckuva deal......for the seller!
                                                                                                      Not too sure about the sellee though. Now, if it was a Toyco...

                                                                                                      John Hagen
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                      > Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
                                                                                                      on your
                                                                                                      > Live.com page.
                                                                                                      > http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2620 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
                                                                                                      If I may,
                                                                                                      I would just like to add... as far as I am concerned.. There is something completly different for me in the felling I get about a piece when it is old,heavy, made of die-cast metal, brass or wood or any combination of the three... or if I hold a piece which is hot off the die and made of plastic.. It never weighs as much... I always fear breaking it. If by chance the motor goes and gets too hot, if only for a minute... The shell is shot. Sure, I am as into authentic detail as the next guy and being a collector / modeler of the New Haven Line I do have pieces in my collection that New haven NEVER had. (However I refuse to go as far as having a NH GG-1. )
                                                                                                      Sure the detail on the newer plastic engines is nice, but store that proto engine for a little while, with the plastic handrails, pull it out after a few years... I bet it will run, but those handrails will look like the engine rolled over several times before coming to rest back on the rails... not ot mention the cracking and fading the plastic likes to do...
                                                                                                      Besides... I prefer the hand built... such as my pride: the six old hand built poultry cars in my collection... plastic has nothing on them, with their mix of wood, metal, brass and cloth details. Nothing like holding the real thing, that still even looks close enough to the real thing! ...and I am only 36... Most of the stuff I own is at least 10 - 20 years my Senior!
                                                                                                      Sean

                                                                                                      Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                                                                                      >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      >From: John Barlow
                                                                                                      >To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                      >Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 3:24 AM
                                                                                                      >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

                                                                                                      >Dear Group,

                                                                                                      >Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out
                                                                                                      >there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it
                                                                                                      >came from a >pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know
                                                                                                      >that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if
                                                                                                      >one wishes to be fancy in >the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now.

                                                                                                      >I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly
                                                                                                      >cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time
                                                                                                      >has passed us >anyway. A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how
                                                                                                      >many times has it been repeated-even in brass?
                                                                                                      >It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap
                                                                                                      >shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at
                                                                                                      >$9.99...please. >Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess
                                                                                                      >again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola
                                                                                                      >that is supposed to be of the >"Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A
                                                                                                      >of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big
                                                                                                      >scale.

                                                                                                      >Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101.
                                                                                                      >It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally
                                                                                                      >fraudulent and >should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA
                                                                                                      >Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over
                                                                                                      >and make it into a private >roadname with my blessing.

                                                                                                      >I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for
                                                                                                      >"extinct" some day?

                                                                                                      >Some pieces are underated... and have historic (to prototype) value. It
                                                                                                      >takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be
                                                                                                      >valued and are >worth a collector's consideration, but at what price?
                                                                                                      >Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades.
                                                                                                      >If so...they are, to my thinking, >junk. They bear witness to an older
                                                                                                      >technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once
                                                                                                      >rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to >whether one is building a
                                                                                                      >private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along
                                                                                                      >the track behind power or be the power itself. Control >nostalgia-do not
                                                                                                      >let it control your pocketbook.

                                                                                                      >John

                                                                                                      I think you miss the point a bit of what this group is about. We never
                                                                                                      claim that the old products were "state of the art". Surely there are more
                                                                                                      prototypical models out today, with greater detail for less effort (other
                                                                                                      than writing the check to pay the Visa Card bill), but if prototypical
                                                                                                      accuarcy and having the latest state of the art models running on your
                                                                                                      layout is your thing, then this is probably not the group to follow.
                                                                                                      However, a BIG part of what we're about IS nostalgia, nostalgia for the days
                                                                                                      when one actually BUILT a model railroad instead of buying it, when one
                                                                                                      could take a kit and add the detail parts one wanted, when one could take
                                                                                                      pride in the fact that "I built that", not "look how high the credit limit
                                                                                                      is on my Visa". Anyway, if I want a "shorty" Penn Line GG-1 painted New
                                                                                                      Haven, then by golly I'll FIND a Penn Line shorty GG-1 painted New Haven
                                                                                                      <G>.

                                                                                                      I DO agree that there IS a LOT of junk out there at vastly inflated prices.
                                                                                                      I also feel that this group does a very good job of educating the members
                                                                                                      what to watch out for, and I think we all have a good idea of what these
                                                                                                      things are really worth in the open market. What a particular piece is
                                                                                                      worth to an individual is totally dependent on that individual. One man's
                                                                                                      junk is another man's treasure. If a model has value to you for sentimental
                                                                                                      reasons, then that's what it's worth to you.
                                                                                                      There is a lot of vintage out there at reasonable prices (I bought a third
                                                                                                      Varney Virginian hopper yeaterday on eBay, ninety nine cents!) You just
                                                                                                      have to look for it.
                                                                                                      I don't think anyone here thinks they're going to be able to retire on the
                                                                                                      proceeds of their collection. This group is NOT for the "collector" who
                                                                                                      buys things to sit on the shelf and appreciate in value. This group is for
                                                                                                      people who just love those old trains from their youth, and still enjoy
                                                                                                      running them on their layout. Look through my various photos in my albums on
                                                                                                      the group's home page. EVERY piece of rolling stock there RUNS on my
                                                                                                      layout, and the only reason it may sit on a shelf is because I have to
                                                                                                      regularly cycle cars off the layout because I have about twice as many as
                                                                                                      the layout will hold. I may also point out, that in all those freight cars,
                                                                                                      there's only ONE that I paid more than $10 for. (The Thomas wine car, $20).

                                                                                                      As far as quality, I will say that there is a lot of vintage that IS better
                                                                                                      than the made in China stuff that dominates today's market. Sure, that
                                                                                                      latest plastic locomotive has great detail, but if you actually OPERATE it
                                                                                                      chances are in few years half those flimsy plastic parts will have broken
                                                                                                      off. That's assuming the locomotive will even RUN after a few years, and
                                                                                                      when it DOES stop running, have fun getting parts. I have an Athearn bodied
                                                                                                      Hobbytown GP-7 that's 50 years old that still runs fine. (and FWIW I paid
                                                                                                      $25 for it, less than it sold for new). I recently paid abother list
                                                                                                      member $100 for a BRASS Fairbanks Morse Erie, that's less than the price of
                                                                                                      the new Walthers/Lifelike one, and it will probably still be running long
                                                                                                      after all the plastic ones have been consigned to the scrap heap.

                                                                                                      On my layout Mantua cars from the 1940's lock couplers with P-2K cars of
                                                                                                      today, and you know something? When they're passing by in a train you can't
                                                                                                      tell which is which!

                                                                                                      Don

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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2621 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Manor car kits
                                                                                                      That was a good find Don, sure do not see those kits often. Roger





                                                                                                      Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                      > A couple days ago Roger was asking about "Manor" car kits. I'm not familiar
                                                                                                      > with them, but while perusing a copy of the October 1946 Model Railroader
                                                                                                      > this morning while doing my morning "duties" <G>, I did come across this ad.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Please forgive the bad copy, my scanner has decided it doesn't want to work
                                                                                                      > any more, so I had to do it photographically.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Don
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                      > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                      > Co-owner
                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                      >


                                                                                                      --
                                                                                                      http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                      Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2622 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                        Hello Wobbly,
                                                                                                        Speaking og the Snow Birds... Heck! they were not even F7's New haven not only did not have F'7's, the closest thing they had to that paint scheme, that I have found thus far is their Daniel Webster... Which I have attaches to this message... I have a box full of the Snow Birds myself... It was the first engine I ever owned...
                                                                                                        Sean

                                                                                                        Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        I suppose it is all in the eye of the beholder. One mans junk is another mans treasure. Just because "you" don't like it doesn't mean I can't. I am not a rivet or window counter.I do not sit around worrying about how something purchased by the Southern Pacific varied from one built for the Pensy.
                                                                                                        I happen to be collecting older Athearn. Yes I am aware that some (all?) of it is not prototypical. I happen to like the old rubber band drive so I collect that. I love to watch them race around my oval at 200mph. I particularly like the fantasy New Haven snow bird scheme, so I have 3 ABA sets and growing.  I also like the tricolor RDC jobs, so I have some of those. Sure Hustlers are not real likely to be found but I colllect those too.
                                                                                                        I am also into the Athearn metal RDC cars. I only have a few, but if they are within my budget at the moment I buy them as I find them. Same with Athearn metal cranes. I have 4 nice ones and more that are not as good, and so it goes.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Bottom line: I just like having the stuff.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Wobbly913

                                                                                                        John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                        Dear Group,
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it came from a pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if one wishes to be fancy in the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time has passed us anyway.  A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how many times has it been repeated-even in brass?
                                                                                                        It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at $9.99...please. Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola that is supposed to be of the "Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big scale.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101.  It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally fraudulent and should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over and make it into a private roadname with my blessing.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for "extinct" some day?
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Some pieces are underated... and have historic (to prototype) value. It takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be valued and are worth a collector's consideration, but at what price? Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades. If so...they are, to my thinking, junk. They bear witness to an older technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to whether one is building a private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along the track behind power or be the power itself. Control nostalgia-do not let it control your pocketbook.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        John
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                          

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                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2623 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                        The most I ever paid for a personal vehicle (not the wife's car, but
                                                                                                        mine) was $350.
                                                                                                        That was about 18 years ago, a 50 Pickup, still driving it.
                                                                                                        My 50 Ford Tudor, paid $125 in 1970, still driving it.
                                                                                                        The 49 Willys, paid $20, still here......

                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Yeah I hear you there!! But remember it happened at an antique
                                                                                                        store!
                                                                                                        > They are bad for riping people off! They cater to people with FAT
                                                                                                        > wallets and small brains. Or those who really do not know what is
                                                                                                        > what.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > BTW one of my other hobbies is Chevy Celebrities. They were a mid
                                                                                                        > sized car made in the 80's. At least one of you here probably
                                                                                                        either
                                                                                                        > has one now or did have one in the past. They are nice roomy cars.
                                                                                                        > And they will last forever! I got one in October of last year for
                                                                                                        a
                                                                                                        > mere $300. Granted the registration was a mess but still not a bad
                                                                                                        > price for a running car! I mention this because when ever I think
                                                                                                        of
                                                                                                        > paying $500 for an HO scale model I think of buying cars cheaper!
                                                                                                        Oh
                                                                                                        > btw if any of the rest of you happen to have one of those cars
                                                                                                        there
                                                                                                        > are two yahoogroups for um.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Steamengine4449
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@>
                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if
                                                                                                        he
                                                                                                        > did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it
                                                                                                        > that's his falt. Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is
                                                                                                        > out of line.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2624 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                        I paid $15 for my first running callifornia car 69 Mustang coupe in 1995. Two years later, I paid $1300 for a bare metal 69 Mustang Fastback shell (didn't even have a plastic wiring harness clip, fenders, doors, glass or anything on it). Needless to say, I am still putting it together.. It will be on the road within 2 years...!
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I purchased a 1946 GMC panel Truck in 1986 for $1500
                                                                                                        Sold it in 2000 for $1000
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Sean 

                                                                                                        curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        The most I ever paid for a personal vehicle (not the wife's car, but
                                                                                                        mine) was $350.
                                                                                                        That was about 18 years ago, a 50 Pickup, still driving it.
                                                                                                        My 50 Ford Tudor, paid $125 in 1970, still driving it.
                                                                                                        The 49 Willys, paid $20, still here......

                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Yeah I hear you there!! But remember it happened at an antique
                                                                                                        store!
                                                                                                        > They are bad for riping people off! They cater to people with FAT
                                                                                                        > wallets and small brains. Or those who really do not know what is
                                                                                                        > what.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > BTW one of my other hobbies is Chevy Celebrities. They were a mid
                                                                                                        > sized car made in the 80's. At least one of you here probably
                                                                                                        either
                                                                                                        > has one now or did have one in the past. They are nice roomy cars.
                                                                                                        > And they will last forever! I got one in October of last year for
                                                                                                        a
                                                                                                        > mere $300. Granted the registration was a mess but still not a bad
                                                                                                        > price for a running car! I mention this because when ever I think
                                                                                                        of
                                                                                                        > paying $500 for an HO scale model I think of buying cars cheaper!
                                                                                                        Oh
                                                                                                        > btw if any of the rest of you happen to have one of those cars
                                                                                                        there
                                                                                                        > are two yahoogroups for um.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Steamengine4449
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@ >
                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if
                                                                                                        he
                                                                                                        > did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it
                                                                                                        > that's his falt. Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is
                                                                                                        > out of line.
                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2625 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
                                                                                                        Hi Sean
                                                                                                        Thanks for the picture of the Daniel Webster. I always wondered where the idea for the snow bird paint scheme came from. NH did not have F7's? I thought all of the major railroads had them at one time or another.  Doesn't matter though, I still like my snow birds and run them from time to time. I have to keep them run or the rubber bands stick to the drive rods and drums.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Wobbly913
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        Hello Wobbly,
                                                                                                        Speaking og the Snow Birds... Heck! they were not even F7's New haven not only did not have F'7's, the closest thing they had to that paint scheme, that I have found thus far is their Daniel Webster... Which I have attaches to this message... I have a box full of the Snow Birds myself... It was the first engine I ever owned...
                                                                                                        Sean

                                                                                                        Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        I suppose it is all in the eye of the beholder. One mans junk is another mans treasure. Just because "you" don't like it doesn't mean I can't. I am not a rivet or window counter.I do not sit around worrying about how something purchased by the Southern Pacific varied from one built for the Pensy.
                                                                                                        I happen to be collecting older Athearn. Yes I am aware that some (all?) of it is not prototypical. I happen to like the old rubber band drive so I collect that. I love to watch them race around my oval at 200mph. I particularly like the fantasy New Haven snow bird scheme, so I have 3 ABA sets and growing.  I also like the tricolor RDC jobs, so I have some of those. Sure Hustlers are not real likely to be found but I colllect those too.
                                                                                                        I am also into the Athearn metal RDC cars. I only have a few, but if they are within my budget at the moment I buy them as I find them. Same with Athearn metal cranes. I have 4 nice ones and more that are not as good, and so it goes.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Bottom line: I just like having the stuff.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Wobbly913

                                                                                                        John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                        Dear Group,
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Given the group's name entails "vintage", I think there are too many out there who think we are all gullible as hell when somehing looks like it came from a pharoah's tomb in the Valley of the Kings. Please! We all know that those halcyon days gone by had their share of junk (or "junque", if one wishes to be fancy in the spelling. It was junk then...it is junk now.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have had my fun renovating or refurbishing a few old pieces...mostly cars...but for too many their appeal is to operating something whose time has passed us anyway.  A Mantua bobber is an early Reading NMa...and how many times has it been repeated-even in brass?
                                                                                                        It's a worthwhile subject, but it has been done to the junk boxes at swap shows. I see a Pennsy one (Reading NMa type) listed in all plastic now at $9.99...please. Pennsy? And the G scalers are being offered a PRR (guess again) bobber with four windows per side and (I love this touch) a cupola that is supposed to be of the "Fort Wayne" variety made famous by the N6A of so long ago? If I were G scale, I'd feel insulted. Future junque...big scale.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Buy a Varney gondola with the circle Keystone and the classification G-101.  It's a sort of museum piece...it begot generations of copies equally fraudulent and should be so noted (if it is not already there) in the NMRA Museum. Anything by a later manufacturer is wasted plastic. Paint it over and make it into a private roadname with my blessing.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I look in askance at some of the offerings wherever. Rare? Dare we hope for "extinct" some day?
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Some pieces are underated... and have historic (to prototype) value. It takes a little research and a trained eye...it takes time. These should be valued and are worth a collector's consideration, but at what price? Consider if they have been done more prototypically in more recent decades. If so...they are, to my thinking, junk. They bear witness to an older technology and in a time when...but they do not represent that which once rolled along our rails. I guess it comes down to whether one is building a private museum for whatever purpose or wanting to see something roll along the track behind power or be the power itself. Control nostalgia-do not let it control your pocketbook.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        John
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                          

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                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2626 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                        Typo... I paid $150 for the Coupe...

                                                                                                        sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        I paid $15 for my first running callifornia car 69 Mustang coupe in 1995. Two years later, I paid $1300 for a bare metal 69 Mustang Fastback shell (didn't even have a plastic wiring harness clip, fenders, doors, glass or anything on it). Needless to say, I am still putting it together.. It will be on the road within 2 years...!
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I purchased a 1946 GMC panel Truck in 1986 for $1500
                                                                                                        Sold it in 2000 for $1000
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Sean 

                                                                                                        curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                                                        The most I ever paid for a personal vehicle (not the wife's car, but
                                                                                                        mine) was $350.
                                                                                                        That was about 18 years ago, a 50 Pickup, still driving it.
                                                                                                        My 50 Ford Tudor, paid $125 in 1970, still driving it.
                                                                                                        The 49 Willys, paid $20, still here......

                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Yeah I hear you there!! But remember it happened at an antique
                                                                                                        store!
                                                                                                        > They are bad for riping people off! They cater to people with FAT
                                                                                                        > wallets and small brains. Or those who really do not know what is
                                                                                                        > what.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > BTW one of my other hobbies is Chevy Celebrities. They were a mid
                                                                                                        > sized car made in the 80's. At least one of you here probably
                                                                                                        either
                                                                                                        > has one now or did have one in the past. They are nice roomy cars.
                                                                                                        > And they will last forever! I got one in October of last year for
                                                                                                        a
                                                                                                        > mere $300. Granted the registration was a mess but still not a bad
                                                                                                        > price for a running car! I mention this because when ever I think
                                                                                                        of
                                                                                                        > paying $500 for an HO scale model I think of buying cars cheaper!
                                                                                                        Oh
                                                                                                        > btw if any of the rest of you happen to have one of those cars
                                                                                                        there
                                                                                                        > are two yahoogroups for um.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Steamengine4449
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@ >
                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but if
                                                                                                        he
                                                                                                        > did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it
                                                                                                        > that's his falt. Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value is
                                                                                                        > out of line.
                                                                                                        >



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                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2627 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                        That's what happens when you buy a General Misunderstanding.
                                                                                                        You know how those got named, right?

                                                                                                        In the 20's, General Misunderstanding made trucks. No name, just
                                                                                                        trucks.
                                                                                                        One day this guy was driving along in his Model "T" and came across
                                                                                                        one at the side of the road with the hood panels up, so he stopped
                                                                                                        and asked if the driver needed help.

                                                                                                        "No, but thanks anyway.
                                                                                                        Gotta
                                                                                                        Mechanic
                                                                                                        Coming"

                                                                                                        But, with over 500K on the clock and 300K on the last motor, the
                                                                                                        $125 investment in the 50 Ford Tudor has really paid off.
                                                                                                        $15,000 is minimum value.........

                                                                                                        Dave



                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Typo... I paid $150 for the Coupe...
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: I paid $15 for
                                                                                                        my first running callifornia car 69 Mustang coupe in 1995. Two years
                                                                                                        later, I paid $1300 for a bare metal 69 Mustang Fastback shell
                                                                                                        (didn't even have a plastic wiring harness clip, fenders, doors,
                                                                                                        glass or anything on it). Needless to say, I am still putting it
                                                                                                        together.. It will be on the road within 2 years...!
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > I purchased a 1946 GMC panel Truck in 1986 for $1500
                                                                                                        > Sold it in 2000 for $1000
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Sean
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > The most I ever paid for a personal vehicle (not the wife's
                                                                                                        car, but
                                                                                                        > mine) was $350.
                                                                                                        > That was about 18 years ago, a 50 Pickup, still driving it.
                                                                                                        > My 50 Ford Tudor, paid $125 in 1970, still driving it.
                                                                                                        > The 49 Willys, paid $20, still here......
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > Yeah I hear you there!! But remember it happened at an antique
                                                                                                        > store!
                                                                                                        > > They are bad for riping people off! They cater to people with
                                                                                                        FAT
                                                                                                        > > wallets and small brains. Or those who really do not know what
                                                                                                        is
                                                                                                        > > what.
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > BTW one of my other hobbies is Chevy Celebrities. They were a
                                                                                                        mid
                                                                                                        > > sized car made in the 80's. At least one of you here probably
                                                                                                        > either
                                                                                                        > > has one now or did have one in the past. They are nice roomy
                                                                                                        cars.
                                                                                                        > > And they will last forever! I got one in October of last year
                                                                                                        for
                                                                                                        > a
                                                                                                        > > mere $300. Granted the registration was a mess but still not a
                                                                                                        bad
                                                                                                        > > price for a running car! I mention this because when ever I
                                                                                                        think
                                                                                                        > of
                                                                                                        > > paying $500 for an HO scale model I think of buying cars
                                                                                                        cheaper!
                                                                                                        > Oh
                                                                                                        > > btw if any of the rest of you happen to have one of those cars
                                                                                                        > there
                                                                                                        > > are two yahoogroups for um.
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > Steamengine4449
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio
                                                                                                        <raymarinaccio@>
                                                                                                        > > wrote:
                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                        > > > It's a shame to see people taken advantage of like that, but
                                                                                                        if
                                                                                                        > he
                                                                                                        > > did pay $249 for that loco without doing a little research on it
                                                                                                        > > that's his falt. Asking $500 without knowing it's actual value
                                                                                                        is
                                                                                                        > > out of line.
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                        email and get things done faster.
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                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2628 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                          I know all too well about the bands... They actually had FL-9's which had a 4 wheel truck in front and a six wheel truck in the rear. The only way to get one is pay $300+ for a brass one or kitbash one from an atlass GP-35 & 2 atlas FP7's  
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Currently, I opt for the latter...
                                                                                                          Sean


                                                                                                          Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                                                                          Hi Sean
                                                                                                          Thanks for the picture of the Daniel Webster. I always wondered where the idea for the snow bird paint scheme came from. NH did not have F7's? I thought all of the major railroads had them at one time or another.  Doesn't matter though, I still like my snow birds and run them from time to time. I have to keep them run or the rubber bands stick to the drive rods and drums.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Wobbly913
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           


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                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2629 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
                                                                                                          Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that very magazine that you copied had an article by Al Kamm on building one out of Athearn F-7 shells.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Don
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:12 PM
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

                                                                                                          I know all too well about the bands... They actually had FL-9's which had a 4 wheel truck in front and a six wheel truck in the rear. The only way to get one is pay $300+ for a brass one or kitbash one from an atlass GP-35 & 2 atlas FP7's  
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Currently, I opt for the latter...
                                                                                                          Sean


                                                                                                          Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 2630 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                          Subject: Fwd: THIS WEEKEND!!! -- WGH on Tour in Portland, OR
                                                                                                          Attachments :


                                                                                                            Note: forwarded message attached.


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                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2631 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"
                                                                                                            Don,
                                                                                                            Yes, they used Athearn F7's, but after talking to a guy whom I traded a small bag of brass detail pieces for a Penn Central version he built, he explained how it would be easier to start from the FP7... Small things, like the grill along the top of the sides is closer to the FP's and the small louvered grills between the windows are rotated 90 degrees onthe F7's and correct on the FP7's as well as several other small details... He also said it was easier to hide the joints using the FPs. I like the version I have from him... I ran into him at the show two weeks ago and told him we need to work another deal... (Last week was a different show).
                                                                                                            Sean

                                                                                                            Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                            Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that very magazine that you copied had an article by Al Kamm on building one out of Athearn F-7 shells.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Don
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:12 PM
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

                                                                                                            I know all too well about the bands... They actually had FL-9's which had a 4 wheel truck in front and a six wheel truck in the rear. The only way to get one is pay $300+ for a brass one or kitbash one from an atlass GP-35 & 2 atlas FP7's  
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Currently, I opt for the latter...
                                                                                                            Sean


                                                                                                            Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                                                             


                                                                                                            Don't pick lemons.
                                                                                                            See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 2632 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                            Subject: New Finds
                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                              I tried to send this last night but haven't yet seen it show up in
                                                                                                              my mail so I'm trying again.

                                                                                                              This past Saturday was the Greater Houston Train Show, sponsored by
                                                                                                              the San Jacinto Model Railroad Club. I found a few nice old items that
                                                                                                              convinced me to part with some hard-earned cash.
                                                                                                              The first photo shows an Ambroid 25th Anniversary 2-in-One kit for a
                                                                                                              Milwaukee Composite Gondola and a N&W Hopper car. You can see in the
                                                                                                              photo that the gondola has been started and the previous owner has done
                                                                                                              a very nice job on the bottom and sides to this point. Looking at the
                                                                                                              pieces left in the box I'm not sure that everything is there to build
                                                                                                              the hopper car, but the full decal sheet is still there. I only paid $2
                                                                                                              for it as is so it was well worth it. I have a few other copies of this
                                                                                                              kit and one or two of them are partially built also.
                                                                                                              The second photo is of a Main Line Models SP wood boxcar. This one
                                                                                                              has not been started yet, so I get the fun of doing the whole thing.
                                                                                                              Unfortunately, as you might be able to make out in the photo, the rubber
                                                                                                              bands deteriorated or melted and stuck to the roof and bottom pieces. I
                                                                                                              hope I can clean it up sufficiently so that the paint goes on evenly.
                                                                                                              Maybe a coat of sanding sealer first (I never use it).
                                                                                                              The third and fourth photos show a real oddball. It's a kit for a
                                                                                                              1915 Model "T" Rail Truck. The instruction sheet says it's by
                                                                                                              Distinctive Scale Models in Lincoln, NE. It says the inspiration was an
                                                                                                              article by Sherman T. Dance in the January, 1963 MR. This looks like one
                                                                                                              of those home-brew and sold kits. That fourth photo shows the exploded
                                                                                                              plans from one of the pages. There's not much to the kit, but it looked
                                                                                                              intriguing and does include the motor. The metal parts for the gearbox
                                                                                                              and front truck have not been bent to shape yet, so that's going to be a
                                                                                                              real challenge to get it right and true. I paid $10 each for this one
                                                                                                              and the SP boxcar.

                                                                                                              --

                                                                                                              Rick Jones

                                                                                                              The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                                              High blood pressure sufferers: simply cut yourself and bleed for
                                                                                                              a while, thus reducing the pressure in your veins.
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2633 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              There's a problem--there seems to be a belief out there that if it is a train and is old, it's worth at least a bundle. Perhaps a bundle and a half.  gj
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: curmudgeon
                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Prices

                                                                                                              I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun.
                                                                                                              I perused various shops, including antique with the wife.
                                                                                                              I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the
                                                                                                              brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers
                                                                                                              were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half
                                                                                                              the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color
                                                                                                              (probably due to moist storage), $27.50.

                                                                                                              I offerred $20 for parts.
                                                                                                              Nope.
                                                                                                              Antique. Worth a bundle.
                                                                                                              I walked.

                                                                                                              Found some AHM artics in Tillamook.
                                                                                                              The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!"

                                                                                                              I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes,
                                                                                                              HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he
                                                                                                              claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many
                                                                                                              zeroes.

                                                                                                              The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and
                                                                                                              handed them to her.
                                                                                                              Asked her to read the address.
                                                                                                              She did, almost all of it.
                                                                                                              I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that.
                                                                                                              I told her 1963.
                                                                                                              Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963.

                                                                                                              She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat.

                                                                                                              Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... .
                                                                                                              Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine?

                                                                                                              Lordhavemercy.

                                                                                                              Dave

                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2634 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              The SP with red lettering--someone must have seen some of the weathering that took place on some units--the white came off and for some reason there was red under it.
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: Don RIley
                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:14 AM
                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Prices

                                                                                                              Reads like you found some junk!!! That old Athearn engine is worth
                                                                                                              nothing! I have a bunch of those early Athearn engines around here. I
                                                                                                              have at least one of every veriation of F7 or GP7 offered. Yes there
                                                                                                              weere more then a few of um! I have um in assorted conditions. But
                                                                                                              most are fairly close to mint. And at this point I would only buy one
                                                                                                              that is VERY close to mint. Box is not required. But if anything is
                                                                                                              not there I do not want it! Well handrails are no big deal. But aside
                                                                                                              from that. And yes I have several I operate. Included is one of thsoe
                                                                                                              old SP GP7s with red lettering instead of white! Never have figured
                                                                                                              out what was up with the red letters. I think I have two of um but I
                                                                                                              can not seem to find the other. BTW back to handrails. Man Athearn
                                                                                                              really blew um!! I mean gad! Those things are CRAP!!! I long ago
                                                                                                              stoped even trying to install um because they break and come apart.
                                                                                                              Uprights even come apart! They are only bent to make the eye for the
                                                                                                              top rail. I know I can still get um for GP7s. Will the GP35 set work
                                                                                                              on a GP30? I ask because I have in the box GP30s that I would like to
                                                                                                              add a handrail set to the box just to make it comeplete. Was thinking
                                                                                                              about getting GP35 rails. And while I do own an Athearn GP35 I can
                                                                                                              not seem to find it. Yeah I got boxes of trains. They are from a big
                                                                                                              layout I used to have. Had to take it apart when we moved. No room
                                                                                                              for it anymore. So the fleet is boxed up. Have a small layout I run
                                                                                                              but no need for the huge fleet I once ran. So most of um stay boxed.

                                                                                                              As for the other cars. Well not sure what to say. Yeah I too have
                                                                                                              been quoted silly prices. Yeah they kept there models.

                                                                                                              As for the Riv steamer. Well either she got fooled or was just trying
                                                                                                              to fool you. Good catch on the zip code!

                                                                                                              Steamengine4449

                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@ ...>
                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun.
                                                                                                              > I perused various shops, including antique with the wife.
                                                                                                              > I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the
                                                                                                              > brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers
                                                                                                              > were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half
                                                                                                              > the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color
                                                                                                              > (probably due to moist storage), $27.50.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > I offerred $20 for parts.
                                                                                                              > Nope.
                                                                                                              > Antique. Worth a bundle.
                                                                                                              > I walked.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Found some AHM artics in Tillamook.
                                                                                                              > The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!"
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes,
                                                                                                              > HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he
                                                                                                              > claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many
                                                                                                              > zeroes.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and
                                                                                                              > handed them to her.
                                                                                                              > Asked her to read the address.
                                                                                                              > She did, almost all of it.
                                                                                                              > I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that.
                                                                                                              > I told her 1963.
                                                                                                              > Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... .
                                                                                                              > Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Lordhavemercy.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Dave

                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2635 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold" Not So New Haven F
                                                                                                              Branford Hobbies in Branford Conn, had... or, still has... resin bodies for an FL9. They had a chassis for it as well, using Athearn drive parts. I have never seen one, so I can't attest to the quality. They also had resin shells for DL 109s and EP5s, also with frames that accepted Athearn drive parts. ConnDot had a four axle F unit painted in the McGinnis scheme. So there was a sort of prototype similar to the Revell F unit. You can probably find pictures of it on the Fallen Flags website.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              From: a69mustang4me@...
                                                                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              Sent: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 4:26 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

                                                                                                              Don,
                                                                                                              Yes, they used Athearn F7's, but after talking to a guy whom I traded a small bag of brass detail pieces for a Penn Central version he built, he explained how it would be easier to start from the FP7... Small things, like the grill along the top of the sides is closer to the FP's and the small louvered grills between the windows are rotated 90 degrees onthe F7's and correct on the FP7's as well as several other small details... He also said it was easier to hide the joints using the FPs. I like the version I have from him... I ran into him at the show two weeks ago and told him we need to work another deal... (Last week was a different show).
                                                                                                              Sean

                                                                                                              Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                                                              Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that very magazine that you copied had an article by Al Kamm on building one out of Athearn F-7 shells.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Don
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:12 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

                                                                                                              I know all too well about the bands... They actually had FL-9's which had a 4 wheel truck in front and a six wheel truck in the rear. The only way to get one is pay $300+ for a brass one or kitbash one from an atlass GP-35 & 2 atlas FP7's  
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Currently, I opt for the latter...
                                                                                                              Sean


                                                                                                              Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                                                               


                                                                                                              Don't pick lemons.
                                                                                                              See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                                                                                              Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2636 From: John Barlow Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              Dear Glenn,
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Put short and sweet...I agree. We can attribute the mentality to a host of things...the antique craze, the Greenberg publications, the Brown Book (on brass), etc., etc. Somebody finds something in Grampa's house...whoopie! They see one of the publications, try to match it up...but if it isn't in there-go to eBay. The problem is...what is in that "bundle"? Some folks get a rude surprise. The bundle's contents can be used in that old prank at Halloween by setting the bag on fire on somebody's step and ringing the doorbell.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              John Barlow 

                                                                                                              Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              There's a problem--there seems to be a belief out there that if it is a train and is old, it's worth at least a bundle. Perhaps a bundle and a half.  gj
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: curmudgeon
                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Prices

                                                                                                              I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun.
                                                                                                              I perused various shops, including antique with the wife.
                                                                                                              I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the
                                                                                                              brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers
                                                                                                              were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half
                                                                                                              the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color
                                                                                                              (probably due to moist storage), $27.50.

                                                                                                              I offerred $20 for parts.
                                                                                                              Nope.
                                                                                                              Antique. Worth a bundle.
                                                                                                              I walked.

                                                                                                              Found some AHM artics in Tillamook.
                                                                                                              The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!"

                                                                                                              I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes,
                                                                                                              HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he
                                                                                                              claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many
                                                                                                              zeroes.

                                                                                                              The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and
                                                                                                              handed them to her.
                                                                                                              Asked her to read the address.
                                                                                                              She did, almost all of it.
                                                                                                              I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that.
                                                                                                              I told her 1963.
                                                                                                              Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963.

                                                                                                              She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat.

                                                                                                              Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... .
                                                                                                              Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine?

                                                                                                              Lordhavemercy.

                                                                                                              Dave



                                                                                                              Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2637 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              As a matter of fact(like it or not) the "worth" or value of just about any thing is what some one is willing to pay for it. True value doesn't have that much to do with it. Just got to hold out for the right sucker. And if you have enough traffic thru your antique store you may well find the one you need...it only takes one.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Wobbly913

                                                                                                              Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              There's a problem--there seems to be a belief out there that if it is a train and is old, it's worth at least a bundle. Perhaps a bundle and a half.  gj
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: curmudgeon
                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Prices

                                                                                                              I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun.
                                                                                                              I perused various shops, including antique with the wife.
                                                                                                              I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the
                                                                                                              brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers
                                                                                                              were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half
                                                                                                              the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color
                                                                                                              (probably due to moist storage), $27.50.

                                                                                                              I offerred $20 for parts.
                                                                                                              Nope.
                                                                                                              Antique. Worth a bundle.
                                                                                                              I walked.

                                                                                                              Found some AHM artics in Tillamook.
                                                                                                              The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!"

                                                                                                              I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes,
                                                                                                              HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he
                                                                                                              claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many
                                                                                                              zeroes.

                                                                                                              The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and
                                                                                                              handed them to her.
                                                                                                              Asked her to read the address.
                                                                                                              She did, almost all of it.
                                                                                                              I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that.
                                                                                                              I told her 1963.
                                                                                                              Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963.

                                                                                                              She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat.

                                                                                                              Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... .
                                                                                                              Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine?

                                                                                                              Lordhavemercy.

                                                                                                              Dave



                                                                                                              Bored stiff? Loosen up...
                                                                                                              Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2638 From: sean naylor Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Branford Hobbies New Haven Units
                                                                                                              Branford no longer offers the custom painting services. I know because I asked. I have one of their HH660's, unpainted kits I picked up on ebay for $103. I called there to see about having it painted and that is how I found out. He said he was not always happy with the quality of the paint jobs. The guy there was surprised to hear I picked up the HH660 on ebay and I found out he sells the same units for $99 + tax and shipping. I imagine they still have DL-109's. I saw one Branford FL9 painted in the McGinnis on eBay and it went for almost $300. As for the DL 109s.. I think I have two..one green and one cranberry... both from branford.. pretty nice pieces... Never saw the ConnDot F unit and I have even been to the wbsite several times... either way... for me, it was conndot and not New haven...although I do own a E60cp (duel cabs and pantographs - McGinnis) and one E60cf (one cab and pantograph - all black), each in the new haven schemes... Only ever saw the E60cf one time and I picked it up for about $20 on eBay. If it had been labeled right, I bet it would have gone over $100. Besides, on a good day, that is the going rate for the E60cp. Hell, I have paid $50 - $75 for a athearn PA-1 painted in the New Haven line, several times now.. I think at last count I had about 25... Maybe four with the same number and none of those are in the same paint scheme.. Not bad for luck...

                                                                                                              MRLENGAL2U@... wrote:
                                                                                                              Branford Hobbies in Branford Conn, had... or, still has... resin bodies for an FL9. They had a chassis for it as well, using Athearn drive parts. I have never seen one, so I can't attest to the quality. They also had resin shells for DL 109s and EP5s, also with frames that accepted Athearn drive parts. ConnDot had a four axle F unit painted in the McGinnis scheme. So there was a sort of prototype similar to the Revell F unit. You can probably find pictures of it on the Fallen Flags website.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              From: a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com
                                                                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                              Sent: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 4:26 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

                                                                                                              Don,
                                                                                                              Yes, they used Athearn F7's, but after talking to a guy whom I traded a small bag of brass detail pieces for a Penn Central version he built, he explained how it would be easier to start from the FP7... Small things, like the grill along the top of the sides is closer to the FP's and the small louvered grills between the windows are rotated 90 degrees onthe F7's and correct on the FP7's as well as several other small details... He also said it was easier to hide the joints using the FPs. I like the version I have from him... I ran into him at the show two weeks ago and told him we need to work another deal... (Last week was a different show).
                                                                                                              Sean

                                                                                                              Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ prodigy.net> wrote:
                                                                                                              Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that very magazine that you copied had an article by Al Kamm on building one out of Athearn F-7 shells.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Don
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:12 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "All That Glitters is Not Old"..."or Gold"

                                                                                                              I know all too well about the bands... They actually had FL-9's which had a 4 wheel truck in front and a six wheel truck in the rear. The only way to get one is pay $300+ for a brass one or kitbash one from an atlass GP-35 & 2 atlas FP7's  
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Currently, I opt for the latter...
                                                                                                              Sean


                                                                                                              Wobbly913 <wobbly913@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                                                               


                                                                                                              Don't pick lemons.
                                                                                                              See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                                                                                              Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.


                                                                                                              The fish are biting.
                                                                                                              Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2639 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: trains
                                                                                                              Hi Guys:  I got is  out friends house 2-8-0. Who   Make  this "Chattanooga ".
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                 Ray L


                                                                                                              Get your own web address.
                                                                                                              Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2640 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: TRAINS
                                                                                                              Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I was alaway interested in World War II.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput,Fleischmann and
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail.com
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I am free-lance.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I got 47 locomotives,
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               I live in Gladstone,OR.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                       Ray Lorts Sr
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I was  USAF 1971- 1976..
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               


                                                                                                              The fish are biting.
                                                                                                              Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2641 From: John Barlow Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: trains
                                                                                                              You talking about that old Tyco thing?
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              John

                                                                                                              Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              Hi Guys:  I got is  out friends house 2-8-0. Who   Make  this "Chattanooga ".
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                 Ray L


                                                                                                              Need Mail bonding?
                                                                                                              Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2642 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: trains
                                                                                                              Probably as stated, a TYCO.
                                                                                                              Tender drive, diesel block, if I recall.
                                                                                                              The locmotive is a dummy, just pushed along.
                                                                                                              Problematical, usually, no parts.
                                                                                                              Some folks have good luck with them, most don't.
                                                                                                              Dave


                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Hi Guys: I got is out friends house 2-8-0. Who Make
                                                                                                              this "Chattanooga ".
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Ray L
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                              > Get your own web address.
                                                                                                              > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2643 From: Don RIley Date: 2/13/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              WOW!! That is a cool collection of old cars! Got pics of um?

                                                                                                              Steamengine4449

                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "curmudgeon" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > The most I ever paid for a personal vehicle (not the wife's car, but
                                                                                                              > mine) was $350.
                                                                                                              > That was about 18 years ago, a 50 Pickup, still driving it.
                                                                                                              > My 50 Ford Tudor, paid $125 in 1970, still driving it.
                                                                                                              > The 49 Willys, paid $20, still here......
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2644 From: John Barlow Date: 2/14/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              The Vietnam War had many slogans or mottos attached with various units. One was the "Wild Weasels" anti-surface-to-air missile killer unit: "Y-T-G-S-M." Need I translate? "You-Got-To-Be-Sh---ing-Me!" That's how I felt when I broused an antique store in West Denver/Lakewood one afternoon and spied what was obviously not an antique. It was a fairly modern narrow book shelf case and I noted the pressboard showing where a chunk was missing in an upper corner on the back. Price: $80.00 I smiled to myself. The young clerk came over and told me what a collector's prize it was. I said nothing but left. I drove down to the Office Mart a few blocks away and there it was-on display-new-unscarred-for $39.95. Need I say more?
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              John

                                                                                                              Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              As a matter of fact(like it or not) the "worth" or value of just about any thing is what some one is willing to pay for it. True value doesn't have that much to do with it. Just got to hold out for the right sucker. And if you have enough traffic thru your antique store you may well find the one you need...it only takes one.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Wobbly913

                                                                                                              Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                                                              There's a problem--there seems to be a belief out there that if it is a train and is old, it's worth at least a bundle. Perhaps a bundle and a half.  gj
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: curmudgeon
                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Prices

                                                                                                              I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun.
                                                                                                              I perused various shops, including antique with the wife.
                                                                                                              I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the
                                                                                                              brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers
                                                                                                              were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half
                                                                                                              the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color
                                                                                                              (probably due to moist storage), $27.50.

                                                                                                              I offerred $20 for parts.
                                                                                                              Nope.
                                                                                                              Antique. Worth a bundle.
                                                                                                              I walked.

                                                                                                              Found some AHM artics in Tillamook.
                                                                                                              The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!"

                                                                                                              I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes,
                                                                                                              HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he
                                                                                                              claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many
                                                                                                              zeroes.

                                                                                                              The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and
                                                                                                              handed them to her.
                                                                                                              Asked her to read the address.
                                                                                                              She did, almost all of it.
                                                                                                              I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that.
                                                                                                              I told her 1963.
                                                                                                              Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963.

                                                                                                              She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat.

                                                                                                              Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... .
                                                                                                              Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine?

                                                                                                              Lordhavemercy.

                                                                                                              Dave




                                                                                                              TV dinner still cooling?
                                                                                                              Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2645 From: John Hagen Date: 2/14/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              John, that is classic antique rip off. Let's see now, what was that
                                                                                                              old saying? Oh yeah. "Buyer Beware." And, boy, it really applies with
                                                                                                              any kind of antique or vintage buying, cars, furniture, MODEL TRAINS,
                                                                                                              teeth, etc.....

                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > The Vietnam War had many slogans or mottos attached with various
                                                                                                              units. One was the "Wild Weasels" anti-surface-to-air missile killer
                                                                                                              unit: "Y-T-G-S-M." Need I translate? "You-Got-To-Be-Sh---ing-Me!"
                                                                                                              That's how I felt when I broused an antique store in West
                                                                                                              Denver/Lakewood one afternoon and spied what was obviously not an
                                                                                                              antique. It was a fairly modern narrow book shelf case and I noted
                                                                                                              the pressboard showing where a chunk was missing in an upper corner
                                                                                                              on the back. Price: $80.00 I smiled to myself. The young clerk came
                                                                                                              over and told me what a collector's prize it was. I said nothing but
                                                                                                              left. I drove down to the Office Mart a few blocks away and there it
                                                                                                              was-on display-new-unscarred-for $39.95. Need I say more?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > John
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2646 From: John Barlow Date: 2/14/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              John,
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Vintage teeth? I better not ask further.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                              John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              John, that is classic antique rip off. Let's see now, what was that
                                                                                                              old saying? Oh yeah. "Buyer Beware." And, boy, it really applies with
                                                                                                              any kind of antique or vintage buying, cars, furniture, MODEL TRAINS,
                                                                                                              teeth, etc.....

                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > The Vietnam War had many slogans or mottos attached with various
                                                                                                              units. One was the "Wild Weasels" anti-surface- to-air missile killer
                                                                                                              unit: "Y-T-G-S-M." Need I translate? "You-Got-To- Be-Sh---ing- Me!"
                                                                                                              That's how I felt when I broused an antique store in West
                                                                                                              Denver/Lakewood one afternoon and spied what was obviously not an
                                                                                                              antique. It was a fairly modern narrow book shelf case and I noted
                                                                                                              the pressboard showing where a chunk was missing in an upper corner
                                                                                                              on the back. Price: $80.00 I smiled to myself. The young clerk came
                                                                                                              over and told me what a collector's prize it was. I said nothing but
                                                                                                              left. I drove down to the Office Mart a few blocks away and there it
                                                                                                              was-on display-new- unscarred- for $39.95. Need I say more?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > John



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                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2647 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/14/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              You were not the sucker they are looking for. But over time someone else may yet buy that piece and the the store will have found the one sucker they seek. It only takes the one.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Wobbly913

                                                                                                              John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              The Vietnam War had many slogans or mottos attached with various units. One was the "Wild Weasels" anti-surface-to-air missile killer unit: "Y-T-G-S-M." Need I translate? "You-Got-To-Be-Sh---ing-Me!" That's how I felt when I broused an antique store in West Denver/Lakewood one afternoon and spied what was obviously not an antique. It was a fairly modern narrow book shelf case and I noted the pressboard showing where a chunk was missing in an upper corner on the back. Price: $80.00 I smiled to myself. The young clerk came over and told me what a collector's prize it was. I said nothing but left. I drove down to the Office Mart a few blocks away and there it was-on display-new-unscarred-for $39.95. Need I say more?
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              John


                                                                                                              Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
                                                                                                              always stay connected to friends.

                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2648 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 2/14/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              Oh John,

                                                                                                              Come on, go ahead and ask the question.
                                                                                                              We are all curious now about the "Vintage Teeth" now anyway.
                                                                                                              Are these like wooden or from old railroaders, famous people or what?????
                                                                                                              :-)

                                                                                                              Loren

                                                                                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                              Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger
                                                                                                              http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2649 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/14/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Prices
                                                                                                              My late friend from the G&D group, Allan Fenton and I were the two guys in the Monterey area who people knew about trains".  So often after someone died the widow or other relatives would call us, usually thinking we were collectors who would buy out the whole works.  First thing was to point out to them what they had.If tinplate, we knew a couple of better people to help liquidate things. For the scale stuff, the best we could do was the quarterly auctions at Coast Division, PCR/NMRA.  I think I have described these before.  We could usually get a hundred lot cards for an estate sale, compared to a usual limit of 25.  So we had to bundle things.  We recognized what might have some value, and the low-end stuff.  Cars like MDC  and Athearn metal, Varney, Mantua, Silver Streak, etc might see several fighting over them, where the old Life Like, Bachmann, Tyco, et al might not get a bid.  A lot of these old guys had a lot of the latter--bought up sets on sale--  So we'd use a lot of beer/soda case flats.  Put one "Good item" in with a dozen cheapies.  Then it would be up to the buyer to get rid of the excess. We often suggested they use some to get a neighbor kid started. But this way we would get the family the best we could get. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Now, of course, this would get us first crack at the goodies, and our group got second.  We had rules of thumb to find prices--usually based on the mail-order prices in the current MR.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              gj
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:44 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Prices

                                                                                                              Dear Glenn,
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Put short and sweet...I agree. We can attribute the mentality to a host of things...the antique craze, the Greenberg publications, the Brown Book (on brass), etc., etc. Somebody finds something in Grampa's house...whoopie! They see one of the publications, try to match it up...but if it isn't in there-go to eBay. The problem is...what is in that "bundle"? Some folks get a rude surprise. The bundle's contents can be used in that old prank at Halloween by setting the bag on fire on somebody's step and ringing the doorbell.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              John Barlow 

                                                                                                              Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                                                              There's a problem--there seems to be a belief out there that if it is a train and is old, it's worth at least a bundle. Perhaps a bundle and a half.  gj
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: curmudgeon
                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Prices

                                                                                                              I just got back from almost 4 days in ory-gun.
                                                                                                              I perused various shops, including antique with the wife.
                                                                                                              I found an Atheran GP-7/9 with tower drive (super-geared with the
                                                                                                              brass bearings in main gear), the gearboxes were there, the drivers
                                                                                                              were green and rusted to hXll, NO sideframes, no driveshafts, half
                                                                                                              the handrails and stanchions gone, the shell had changed color
                                                                                                              (probably due to moist storage), $27.50.

                                                                                                              I offerred $20 for parts.
                                                                                                              Nope.
                                                                                                              Antique. Worth a bundle.
                                                                                                              I walked.

                                                                                                              Found some AHM artics in Tillamook.
                                                                                                              The lady said "metal, made in the 40's!"

                                                                                                              I was uncharacteristicall y nice, explained they were older, yes,
                                                                                                              HUGE flanged Rivarossi engines, plastic, not woth the $249 he
                                                                                                              claimed to have paid for them, and the $500 asking had one too many
                                                                                                              zeroes.

                                                                                                              The end of the box was gone, so I fished out the instructions and
                                                                                                              handed them to her.
                                                                                                              Asked her to read the address.
                                                                                                              She did, almost all of it.
                                                                                                              I asked what the ZIP code was, so she read that.
                                                                                                              I told her 1963.
                                                                                                              Anything with a ZIP code was after 1963.

                                                                                                              She knows the guy who sold them to her, and will have a little chat.

                                                                                                              Hopefully not anyone on this forum....... .
                                                                                                              Can you imagine half a grand for one old Rivarossi engine?

                                                                                                              Lordhavemercy.

                                                                                                              Dave



                                                                                                              Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2650 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/14/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: TRAINS
                                                                                                              The "Chattanooga" is Tyco.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Where is Gladstone?  I'm in Yreka, CA.  gj
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:37 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] TRAINS

                                                                                                              Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I was alaway interested in World War II.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput, Fleischmann and
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail. com
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I am free-lance.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I got 47 locomotives,
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               I live in Gladstone,OR.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                       Ray Lorts Sr
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I was  USAF 1971- 1976..
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               


                                                                                                              The fish are biting.
                                                                                                              Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2651 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/14/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                              Hey Guys!
                                                                                                              I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have
                                                                                                              7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing
                                                                                                              on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser
                                                                                                              Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been
                                                                                                              lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of
                                                                                                              another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of
                                                                                                              it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further
                                                                                                              modification... Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to
                                                                                                              get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2652 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 2/14/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                              Check the Bowser ho,e page. I believe they have what you're looking for, When you ghet there, look at Arbor Models replacement parts, see if they have the trailing truck for their Allegheny(2-6-6-6) loco. Perhaps a pics would help you decide if it would work.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              That's the only one out there thatI know of.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Good luck!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              yours
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                              a69mustang4me <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              Hey Guys!
                                                                                                              I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have
                                                                                                              7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing
                                                                                                              on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser
                                                                                                              Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been
                                                                                                              lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of
                                                                                                              another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of
                                                                                                              it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further
                                                                                                              modification... Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to
                                                                                                              get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean




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                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2653 From: bitlerisvj Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                              Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in
                                                                                                              the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts.
                                                                                                              I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this.
                                                                                                              For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of
                                                                                                              Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called:
                                                                                                              http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/
                                                                                                              With text of:
                                                                                                              e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and
                                                                                                              Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns
                                                                                                              Policies. ...
                                                                                                              The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon.
                                                                                                              To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am
                                                                                                              wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again?
                                                                                                              Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2654 From: John Hagen Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                              Vic,

                                                                                                              Unfortunately, the fact that the website is unavailable is NOT good
                                                                                                              news. This site has been around for awhile and was readily
                                                                                                              accessible. Sadly, it appears to me that Bear is no longer in the
                                                                                                              Hobbytown business. Hopefully someone will pick up the ashes. Someone
                                                                                                              wanna make a call to Bowser?

                                                                                                              John Hagen

                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in
                                                                                                              > the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts.
                                                                                                              > I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this.
                                                                                                              > For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of
                                                                                                              > Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called:
                                                                                                              > http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/
                                                                                                              > With text of:
                                                                                                              > e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and
                                                                                                              > Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns
                                                                                                              > Policies. ...
                                                                                                              > The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon.
                                                                                                              > To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am
                                                                                                              > wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again?
                                                                                                              > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2655 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                              No, this is a NEW site, unless I am missing something. The old site was
                                                                                                              named:
                                                                                                              bearlocomo.zoovy.com/
                                                                                                              So, I am expecting (hoping for) good news.
                                                                                                              If you notice, the new site blurb shows a 2007 Copyright. We haven't been
                                                                                                              in 2007 long enough yet for that to be old.

                                                                                                              Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                              Raleigh, NC



                                                                                                              ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                                                              From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                                                              Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                              Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:16:06 -0000

                                                                                                              Vic,

                                                                                                              Unfortunately, the fact that the website is unavailable is NOT good
                                                                                                              news. This site has been around for awhile and was readily
                                                                                                              accessible. Sadly, it appears to me that Bear is no longer in the
                                                                                                              Hobbytown business. Hopefully someone will pick up the ashes. Someone
                                                                                                              wanna make a call to Bowser?

                                                                                                              John Hagen

                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in
                                                                                                              > the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts.
                                                                                                              > I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this.
                                                                                                              > For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of
                                                                                                              > Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called:
                                                                                                              > http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/
                                                                                                              > With text of:
                                                                                                              > e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and
                                                                                                              > Drives. Copyright �� 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns
                                                                                                              > Policies. ...
                                                                                                              > The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon.
                                                                                                              > To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am
                                                                                                              > wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again?
                                                                                                              > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                              Valentine�s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
                                                                                                              http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2656 From: John Hagen Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                              Well, I done missed the 2007 on it. I do hope you are right. Hobbytown has
                                                                                                              been around for a long time and was always a high quality product. Their
                                                                                                              drives put the new stuff to shame when it comes to durability plus they run
                                                                                                              beautifully. The only major upgrade made over the years was the switch to
                                                                                                              can type motors, which only served to make them even better.

                                                                                                              John Hagen
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2657 From: Mark DeGroat Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                              Hi Guys,
                                                                                                              I got an email on 1/26 from bearbon that said the new site is under
                                                                                                              construction and should be available in two weeks so I keep checking
                                                                                                              every day. The old site was my wishbook. I too need some parts.Hobby
                                                                                                              town parts on E bay seem to have gone up.Desperate for Christmas money I
                                                                                                              sold a beautiful later version RS-3 Hobbytown on E Bay and only got 1
                                                                                                              bid 29.95 . Boy am I sick now.
                                                                                                              Have a great day
                                                                                                              Mark

                                                                                                              Victor Bitleris wrote:
                                                                                                              > No, this is a NEW site, unless I am missing something. The old site was
                                                                                                              > named:
                                                                                                              > bearlocomo.zoovy.com/
                                                                                                              > So, I am expecting (hoping for) good news.
                                                                                                              > If you notice, the new site blurb shows a 2007 Copyright. We haven't been
                                                                                                              > in 2007 long enough yet for that to be old.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                              > Raleigh, NC
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                                                              > From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                                                              > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                              > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:16:06 -0000
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Vic,
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Unfortunately, the fact that the website is unavailable is NOT good
                                                                                                              > news. This site has been around for awhile and was readily
                                                                                                              > accessible. Sadly, it appears to me that Bear is no longer in the
                                                                                                              > Hobbytown business. Hopefully someone will pick up the ashes. Someone
                                                                                                              > wanna make a call to Bowser?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > John Hagen
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in
                                                                                                              > > the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts.
                                                                                                              > > I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this.
                                                                                                              > > For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of
                                                                                                              > > Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called:
                                                                                                              > > http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/
                                                                                                              > > With text of:
                                                                                                              > > e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and
                                                                                                              > > Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns
                                                                                                              > > Policies. ...
                                                                                                              > > The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon.
                                                                                                              > > To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am
                                                                                                              > > wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again?
                                                                                                              > > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                              > Valentine’s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
                                                                                                              > http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2658 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                              I hope I am right also. I do believe in the power of positive thinking.
                                                                                                              Currently I have 4 Hobbytown units, but only one is on the layout. It is a
                                                                                                              Varney NW-2 switcher that I remotored with a can motor and put in a decoder.
                                                                                                              It has very good low speed characteristics. It still has brass wheels
                                                                                                              that are probably 30 years old, but they seem to do just fine for me. I
                                                                                                              have a Varney F3, with a new style Hobbytown chassis that came with a can
                                                                                                              motor. This guy runs very well, but he needs superdetailing and a decoder.
                                                                                                              The other 2 are the RS-3 and RSD-5 engines. Someone put in a very nice Tan
                                                                                                              Can (Mashima) motor in it, but the bearings were extremely sticky. I am in
                                                                                                              the process of cleaning it out.

                                                                                                              Regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                              Raleigh, NC



                                                                                                              ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                                                              From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                                                              Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                              Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:07:37 -0600

                                                                                                              Well, I done missed the 2007 on it. I do hope you are right. Hobbytown has
                                                                                                              been around for a long time and was always a high quality product. Their
                                                                                                              drives put the new stuff to shame when it comes to durability plus they run
                                                                                                              beautifully. The only major upgrade made over the years was the switch to
                                                                                                              can type motors, which only served to make them even better.

                                                                                                              John Hagen

                                                                                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                              From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
                                                                                                              Academy Awards�
                                                                                                              http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 2659 From: pvande1@comcast.net Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                Vic,

                                                                                                                What are the parts you need? Also, what's the vintage of the RSD-5 you're trying to restore? Also, where's the Repower Regear site?

                                                                                                                I would recommend that that best way to save Hobbytown is for everyone to buy a kit on an annual basis at least. It might be too late for that however.

                                                                                                                phil


                                                                                                                -------------- Original message ----------------------
                                                                                                                From: "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...>
                                                                                                                > Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in
                                                                                                                > the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts.
                                                                                                                > I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this.
                                                                                                                > For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of
                                                                                                                > Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called:
                                                                                                                > http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/
                                                                                                                > With text of:
                                                                                                                > e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and
                                                                                                                > Drives. Copyright �� 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns
                                                                                                                > Policies. ...
                                                                                                                > The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon.
                                                                                                                > To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am
                                                                                                                > wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again?
                                                                                                                > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2660 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: TRAINS
                                                                                                                Hi; I South of Portland,Oregon. Thank You all.

                                                                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                The "Chattanooga" is Tyco.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Where is Gladstone?  I'm in Yreka, CA.  gj
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:37 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] TRAINS

                                                                                                                Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I was alaway interested in World War II.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput, Fleischmann and
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail. com
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I am free-lance.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I got 47 locomotives,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                  freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 I live in Gladstone,OR.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                         Ray Lorts Sr
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I was  USAF 1971- 1976..
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                The fish are biting.
                                                                                                                Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.


                                                                                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2661 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement--the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC?
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                Hey Guys!
                                                                                                                I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have
                                                                                                                7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing
                                                                                                                on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser
                                                                                                                Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been
                                                                                                                lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of
                                                                                                                another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of
                                                                                                                it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further
                                                                                                                modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to
                                                                                                                get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2662 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Test
                                                                                                                Just trying to figure out why my two posts with photos of some
                                                                                                                things I bought last weekend haven't shown up. I can see both of them by
                                                                                                                going to the web site but they never came through in my e-mail.

                                                                                                                --

                                                                                                                Rick Jones

                                                                                                                The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                                                Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2663 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: TRAINS
                                                                                                                a bit too far to be much help to you--thought it might be in the Rogue Valley  area  gj
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:42 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] TRAINS

                                                                                                                Hi; I South of Portland,Oregon. Thank You all.

                                                                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:

                                                                                                                The "Chattanooga" is Tyco.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Where is Gladstone?  I'm in Yreka, CA.  gj
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:37 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] TRAINS

                                                                                                                Hi;  I had a Storke on Sept. 11, 19999.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I don't talk every well, I get help my spelling of my Wife Jean.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I play model railroad ,Europan and American, I use 1/87.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I was alaway interested in World War II.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I got DRG Class 17 ( 4-6-0 ) and DRG Class 50 ( 2-10-0 ) Roco,Liliput, Fleischmann and
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Lima freigth 78 car's  and 21 Passenger car's.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                America's Figthing Railroads,United States Military  Railway Servce in WW II ,I get my at www.HistoricRail. com
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I am free-lance.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 IHC,I got this 2-8-0 Consolidation U. S. Army Transportation Corps, 0-8-0  U.S. Army
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Transportation Corps , H.O. U.S. Army  10 flat car's , 2 Boxcar's,1 Caboooes.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I got 47 locomotives,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                  freigth 108 and  36  passenger car's
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 I live in Gladstone,OR.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                         Ray Lorts Sr
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I was  USAF 1971- 1976..
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                The fish are biting.
                                                                                                                Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.


                                                                                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2664 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston

                                                                                                                Vic-I have done business with these folks for years.  The present owner was a very good friend of the previous owner-so knows the business well.  Every time I have requested parts, they seem to get them from “the deep black hole”-even for 50 year old stuff.  So try again; it may take a phone call so they can ask questions (the various F3- 7’s, E-7’s and RS-3’s have gone thru a few changes over the years-but they seem to dig up the necessary parts.  And if you need the Cary bodies to go with them, check with Bowser-who still has many of them.  Good luck!  JerryG.

                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of bitlerisvj
                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:35 AM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Of Boston

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in
                                                                                                                the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts.
                                                                                                                I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this.
                                                                                                                For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of
                                                                                                                Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called:
                                                                                                                http://www.hobbytow nofboston. com/
                                                                                                                With text of:
                                                                                                                e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston ' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and
                                                                                                                Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns
                                                                                                                Policies. ...
                                                                                                                The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open soon.
                                                                                                                To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am
                                                                                                                wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again?
                                                                                                                Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2665 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Test
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...>
                                                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:47 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Test


                                                                                                                > Just trying to figure out why my two posts with photos of some
                                                                                                                > things I bought last weekend haven't shown up. I can see both of them by
                                                                                                                > going to the web site but they never came through in my e-mail.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > --
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Rick Jones
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.

                                                                                                                We saw them. I assume you're set for "daily emails"? If you're in digest
                                                                                                                mode the pictures won'y show.

                                                                                                                The other thing I notice is you're an SBC-Yahoo customer. Check the "bulk"
                                                                                                                folder on your personal email web page. I've found that often Yahoo's spam
                                                                                                                filter will put posts in my bulk folder if I'm shown as the original sender,
                                                                                                                even though it came through the group.

                                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                Co-owner
                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2666 From: sean naylor Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                Hey Glen,
                                                                                                                The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today and found nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea what that is...
                                                                                                                Thanks, Sean

                                                                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement- -the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC?
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                Hey Guys!
                                                                                                                I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have
                                                                                                                7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing
                                                                                                                on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser
                                                                                                                Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been
                                                                                                                lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of
                                                                                                                another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of
                                                                                                                it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further
                                                                                                                modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to
                                                                                                                get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean



                                                                                                                Never miss an email again!
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                                                                                                                alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2667 From: curmudgeon Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Athearn dismal parts needed
                                                                                                                Need some final bits to get "completed" on these Athearn F-7's.

                                                                                                                For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super-
                                                                                                                geared" F-units.
                                                                                                                The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut,
                                                                                                                rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                                                One input shaft bearing, part number 90579.
                                                                                                                Dimensions:
                                                                                                                Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                                                OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                                                ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                                                Thickness: .100"
                                                                                                                This is a dual-collar bearing, flange on each end. I've tried to
                                                                                                                make one, close, but I'm afraid heat will expand it and lock it.

                                                                                                                I need two long front couplers for the either Hi-F or dummy "A",
                                                                                                                part number 90607. These are the ones with the coil spring that fit
                                                                                                                into a box that screws to the mount. I have the boxes, springs and
                                                                                                                screws.
                                                                                                                Just need the two.

                                                                                                                Also, I have a nice "B" unit shell (to go with the Hi-F "A" I just
                                                                                                                finished), have the trucks, but look as we might, we have no frame.
                                                                                                                No idea what happened to it.
                                                                                                                ANY "A" unit Hi-F frame (with the peg or the screw bolster) will
                                                                                                                work, as this will be a dummy.
                                                                                                                Anybody have a cheap spare in the junk bin? I have the short
                                                                                                                couplers and boxes for it.

                                                                                                                And, I need ONE coupler cover clip, 90602, the spring-steel one. I
                                                                                                                am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I
                                                                                                                could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.

                                                                                                                AND, a pair of "standard" F-7 weights (not the Super-Geared full
                                                                                                                weight) part number 90711.
                                                                                                                I have weights in the tower drive "A", but the tower-drive "B",
                                                                                                                well, they went the same place that frame went.

                                                                                                                Let me know, and I can get these diseasemals back to my brother and
                                                                                                                try to get my eyesight back.
                                                                                                                Thanks.

                                                                                                                Dave
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2668 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed
                                                                                                                I have a spare HiF f7 frame, the earlier peg style. If you want it simply send me your mailing address and I will send it on its way.
                                                                                                                Unfortunately I don't have any of the rest of your parts need, in fact I could use some of them myself as I have more than one F unit without couplers.  I plan to ultimately fit them with KD's.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Wobbly913
                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                Need some final bits to get "completed" on these Athearn F-7's.

                                                                                                                For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super-
                                                                                                                geared" F-units.
                                                                                                                The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut,
                                                                                                                rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                                                One input shaft bearing, part number 90579.
                                                                                                                Dimensions:
                                                                                                                Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                                                OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                                                ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                                                Thickness: .100"
                                                                                                                This is a dual-collar bearing, flange on each end. I've tried to
                                                                                                                make one, close, but I'm afraid heat will expand it and lock it.

                                                                                                                I need two long front couplers for the either Hi-F or dummy "A",
                                                                                                                part number 90607. These are the ones with the coil spring that fit
                                                                                                                into a box that screws to the mount. I have the boxes, springs and
                                                                                                                screws.
                                                                                                                Just need the two.

                                                                                                                Also, I have a nice "B" unit shell (to go with the Hi-F "A" I just
                                                                                                                finished), have the trucks, but look as we might, we have no frame.
                                                                                                                No idea what happened to it.
                                                                                                                ANY "A" unit Hi-F frame (with the peg or the screw bolster) will
                                                                                                                work, as this will be a dummy.
                                                                                                                Anybody have a cheap spare in the junk bin? I have the short
                                                                                                                couplers and boxes for it.

                                                                                                                And, I need ONE coupler cover clip, 90602, the spring-steel one. I
                                                                                                                am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I
                                                                                                                could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.

                                                                                                                AND, a pair of "standard" F-7 weights (not the Super-Geared full
                                                                                                                weight) part number 90711.
                                                                                                                I have weights in the tower drive "A", but the tower-drive "B",
                                                                                                                well, they went the same place that frame went.

                                                                                                                Let me know, and I can get these diseasemals back to my brother and
                                                                                                                try to get my eyesight back.
                                                                                                                Thanks.

                                                                                                                Dave




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                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2669 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                                There's still hope........

                                                                                                                I just found this cached page........

                                                                                                                [This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.bearlocomotive.com/ as
                                                                                                                retrieved on Jan 19, 2007 23:56:56 GMT ]

                                                                                                                http://tinyurl.com/396phc

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Feb 15, 2007, at 11:16 AM, John Hagen wrote:

                                                                                                                > Vic,
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Unfortunately, the fact that the website is unavailable is NOT good
                                                                                                                > news. This site has been around for awhile and was readily
                                                                                                                > accessible. Sadly, it appears to me that Bear is no longer in the
                                                                                                                > Hobbytown business. Hopefully someone will pick up the ashes. Someone
                                                                                                                > wanna make a call to Bowser?
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > John Hagen
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                >> Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in
                                                                                                                >> the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts.
                                                                                                                >> I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this.
                                                                                                                >> For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of
                                                                                                                >> Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called:
                                                                                                                >> http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/
                                                                                                                >> With text of:
                                                                                                                >> e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and
                                                                                                                >> Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns
                                                                                                                >> Policies. ...
                                                                                                                >> The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open
                                                                                                                >> soon.
                                                                                                                >> To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am
                                                                                                                >> wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again?
                                                                                                                >> Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2670 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/15/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hobbytown Of Boston
                                                                                                                Clicking that link ultimately got me to:
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                The Bear Locomotive / hobbytown of Boston web site is being moved. A new web page is currently under construction. When the new page is ready all inquiries will be redirected to the new site.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Wobbly913

                                                                                                                Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                There's still hope........

                                                                                                                I just found this cached page........

                                                                                                                [This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.bearlocomotive.com/ as
                                                                                                                retrieved on Jan 19, 2007 23:56:56 GMT ]

                                                                                                                http://tinyurl.com/396phc

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Feb 15, 2007, at 11:16 AM, John Hagen wrote:

                                                                                                                > Vic,
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Unfortunately, the fact that the website is unavailable is NOT good
                                                                                                                > news. This site has been around for awhile and was readily
                                                                                                                > accessible. Sadly, it appears to me that Bear is no longer in the
                                                                                                                > Hobbytown business. Hopefully someone will pick up the ashes. Someone
                                                                                                                > wanna make a call to Bowser?
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > John Hagen
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bitlerisvj" wrote:
                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                >> Hi folks, I am also posting this to the Repower Regear site. I am in
                                                                                                                >> the process of restoring a Hobbytown Alco RSD-5 and need some parts.
                                                                                                                >> I also need an RS-3 powering kit. Not in a rush for any of this.
                                                                                                                >> For a while I was really concerned that Bear Locomotive, Hobbytown Of
                                                                                                                >> Boston had shut his doors, but now I see a website called:
                                                                                                                >> http://www.hobbytownofboston.com/
                                                                                                                >> With text of:
                                                                                                                >> e7fapa1. 'hobbytown of Boston' HO Scale Diecast Locomotive Kits and
                                                                                                                >> Drives. Copyright © 2007. Please read our Privacy and Returns
                                                                                                                >> Policies. ...
                                                                                                                >> The website is currently not accessible, but I hope it will open
                                                                                                                >> soon.
                                                                                                                >> To me this implies that they are not going out of business, but I am
                                                                                                                >> wondering does anyone know when they will be open for business again?
                                                                                                                >> Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris



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                                                                                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2671 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                >From: sean naylor
                                                                                                                >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:38 PM
                                                                                                                >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does
                                                                                                                >anyone have one?


                                                                                                                >Hey Glen,
                                                                                                                >The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser
                                                                                                                >shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today
                                                                                                                >and found >nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea
                                                                                                                >what that is...
                                                                                                                >Thanks, Sean

                                                                                                                PSC is Precision Scale, successors to the old "Kemtron" line.

                                                                                                                Arbor Models / Master Creations did offer the 6 wheel Allegheny truck at one
                                                                                                                time. When it was available the Walthers catalog number was 136-511

                                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                Co-owner
                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2672 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                Sean:  PSC is Precision Scale Co. in Victor , Montana ; 406-642-3901.  They do  all sorts of cast brass superdetail parts, and some in plastic.  I have their brand new catalog, and no 6 wheel trailing trucks are shown.  The 4 wheel ones are 5’ or 5’-6” wheelbase, which is pretty typical of Northerns and the like.  HOWEVER, they do show a 4-wheeler, B&M type, which appears to be longer; it does not have a wheelbase listed.  Catalog # is PSHO32536.  It has a funky long spring between the two sets of axles.  It is $15.00.   You may want to call them and check the overall length; it may do in a pinch.  JerryG.

                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor
                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:39 PM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Hey Glen,

                                                                                                                The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today and found nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea what that is...

                                                                                                                Thanks, Sean

                                                                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:

                                                                                                                There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement- -the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC?

                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM

                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Hey Guys!
                                                                                                                I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have
                                                                                                                7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing
                                                                                                                on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser
                                                                                                                Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been
                                                                                                                lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of
                                                                                                                another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of
                                                                                                                it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further
                                                                                                                modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to
                                                                                                                get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                 


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                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2673 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                Thanks, Jerry... Maybe this is why the original owner never finished it... I will find one... If I have to sell my first born, I will!
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                (;P)
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Sean

                                                                                                                Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                Sean:  PSC is Precision Scale Co. in Victor , Montana ; 406-642-3901.  They do  all sorts of cast brass superdetail parts, and some in plastic.  I have their brand new catalog, and no 6 wheel trailing trucks are shown.  The 4 wheel ones are 5’ or 5’-6” wheelbase, which is pretty typical of Northerns and the like.  HOWEVER, they do show a 4-wheeler, B&M type, which appears to be longer; it does not have a wheelbase listed.  Catalog # is PSHO32536.  It has a funky long spring between the two sets of axles.  It is $15.00.   You may want to call them and check the overall length; it may do in a pinch.  JerryG.

                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of sean naylor
                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:39 PM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                Hey Glen,
                                                                                                                The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today and found nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea what that is...
                                                                                                                Thanks, Sean

                                                                                                                Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                                                                There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement- -the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC?
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                Hey Guys!
                                                                                                                I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have
                                                                                                                7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing
                                                                                                                on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser
                                                                                                                Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been
                                                                                                                lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of
                                                                                                                another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of
                                                                                                                it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further
                                                                                                                modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to
                                                                                                                get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean
                                                                                                                 

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                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 2674 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                  Sean N: Ask the manufacturer if the dies are still available... would
                                                                                                                  they consider running this product for you. I doesn't cost to ask....

                                                                                                                  Don L.
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2675 From: John Hagen Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Thanks, Jerry... Maybe this is why the original owner never finished
                                                                                                                  it... I will find one... If I have to sell my first born, I will!

                                                                                                                  What a guy, willing to sell his son to get a six wheel trailing truck.
                                                                                                                  I'd probably sell the Mustang first, but that's me.
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2676 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  PSC is Precision Scale Co.  THE biggest manufacturer of lost was detail parts. They do a lot of parts for the brass importers. 
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Precision Scale Co. 2383 Meridian Rd. Victor, MT 59875  (406) 642-3901
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  They have several catalogs--there is so much stuff. You will want the HO Steam Loco Parts catalog. I'd bet they have one--gj
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:38 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                  Hey Glen,
                                                                                                                  The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today and found nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea what that is...
                                                                                                                  Thanks, Sean

                                                                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                                                                  There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement- -the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC?
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                  Hey Guys!
                                                                                                                  I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have
                                                                                                                  7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing
                                                                                                                  on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser
                                                                                                                  Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been
                                                                                                                  lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of
                                                                                                                  another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of
                                                                                                                  it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further
                                                                                                                  modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to
                                                                                                                  get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean



                                                                                                                  Never miss an email again!
                                                                                                                  Yahoo! Toolbar
                                                                                                                  alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2677 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed
                                                                                                                  Just a historical note here,  I think that the early Athearn plastic cars and the Globe F-7 inadvertently set what is now the "standard" coupler mount for HO.  Just a simple die cast dummy coupler with a ring shank that fit over a post, that allowed swing without droop.   MDC and Devore had the shank that later became the Kadee #4. gj
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  From: Wobbly913
                                                                                                                  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:36 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn dismal parts needed

                                                                                                                  I have a spare HiF f7 frame, the earlier peg style. If you want it simply send me your mailing address and I will send it on its way.
                                                                                                                  Unfortunately I don't have any of the rest of your parts need, in fact I could use some of them myself as I have more than one F unit without couplers.  I plan to ultimately fit them with KD's.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Wobbly913
                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                  curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Need some final bits to get "completed" on these Athearn F-7's.

                                                                                                                  For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super-
                                                                                                                  geared" F-units.
                                                                                                                  The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut,
                                                                                                                  rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                                                  One input shaft bearing, part number 90579.
                                                                                                                  Dimensions:
                                                                                                                  Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                                                  OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                                                  ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                                                  Thickness: .100"
                                                                                                                  This is a dual-collar bearing, flange on each end. I've tried to
                                                                                                                  make one, close, but I'm afraid heat will expand it and lock it.

                                                                                                                  I need two long front couplers for the either Hi-F or dummy "A",
                                                                                                                  part number 90607. These are the ones with the coil spring that fit
                                                                                                                  into a box that screws to the mount. I have the boxes, springs and
                                                                                                                  screws.
                                                                                                                  Just need the two.

                                                                                                                  Also, I have a nice "B" unit shell (to go with the Hi-F "A" I just
                                                                                                                  finished), have the trucks, but look as we might, we have no frame.
                                                                                                                  No idea what happened to it.
                                                                                                                  ANY "A" unit Hi-F frame (with the peg or the screw bolster) will
                                                                                                                  work, as this will be a dummy.
                                                                                                                  Anybody have a cheap spare in the junk bin? I have the short
                                                                                                                  couplers and boxes for it.

                                                                                                                  And, I need ONE coupler cover clip, 90602, the spring-steel one. I
                                                                                                                  am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I
                                                                                                                  could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.

                                                                                                                  AND, a pair of "standard" F-7 weights (not the Super-Geared full
                                                                                                                  weight) part number 90711.
                                                                                                                  I have weights in the tower drive "A", but the tower-drive "B",
                                                                                                                  well, they went the same place that frame went.

                                                                                                                  Let me know, and I can get these diseasemals back to my brother and
                                                                                                                  try to get my eyesight back.
                                                                                                                  Thanks.

                                                                                                                  Dave




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                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2678 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Athearn dismal parts needed
                                                                                                                  Thanks for the info. I am mostly interested in couplers for the HiF frames, I will look at Kadee #4 for those. I have a bunch of the old plastic frame models but most came with the die cast dummy coupler and I simply leave those...they will mate with Kadee with little effort, but are so light that they pull very poorly.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Wobbly913

                                                                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Just a historical note here,  I think that the early Athearn plastic cars and the Globe F-7 inadvertently set what is now the "standard" coupler mount for HO.  Just a simple die cast dummy coupler with a ring shank that fit over a post, that allowed swing without droop.   MDC and Devore had the shank that later became the Kadee #4. gj
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  From: Wobbly913
                                                                                                                  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:36 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn dismal parts needed

                                                                                                                  I have a spare HiF f7 frame, the earlier peg style. If you want it simply send me your mailing address and I will send it on its way.
                                                                                                                  Unfortunately I don't have any of the rest of your parts need, in fact I could use some of them myself as I have more than one F unit without couplers.  I plan to ultimately fit them with KD's.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Wobbly913
                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                  curmudgeon <idioticyahoo@ mindspring. com> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Need some final bits to get "completed" on these Athearn F-7's.

                                                                                                                  For a tower-drive, and I suspect this may be what was called "super-
                                                                                                                  geared" F-units.
                                                                                                                  The main drive gears are herringbone or chevron, not straight cut,
                                                                                                                  rather angled opposed gears.
                                                                                                                  One input shaft bearing, part number 90579.
                                                                                                                  Dimensions:
                                                                                                                  Outside overall: .220"
                                                                                                                  OD of actual bearing .175"
                                                                                                                  ID of actual bearing .130"
                                                                                                                  Thickness: .100"
                                                                                                                  This is a dual-collar bearing, flange on each end. I've tried to
                                                                                                                  make one, close, but I'm afraid heat will expand it and lock it.

                                                                                                                  I need two long front couplers for the either Hi-F or dummy "A",
                                                                                                                  part number 90607. These are the ones with the coil spring that fit
                                                                                                                  into a box that screws to the mount. I have the boxes, springs and
                                                                                                                  screws.
                                                                                                                  Just need the two.

                                                                                                                  Also, I have a nice "B" unit shell (to go with the Hi-F "A" I just
                                                                                                                  finished), have the trucks, but look as we might, we have no frame.
                                                                                                                  No idea what happened to it.
                                                                                                                  ANY "A" unit Hi-F frame (with the peg or the screw bolster) will
                                                                                                                  work, as this will be a dummy.
                                                                                                                  Anybody have a cheap spare in the junk bin? I have the short
                                                                                                                  couplers and boxes for it.

                                                                                                                  And, I need ONE coupler cover clip, 90602, the spring-steel one. I
                                                                                                                  am short one on the SW, if you've gone to Kadees and removed them, I
                                                                                                                  could use a handful for when I get to the rolling stock.

                                                                                                                  AND, a pair of "standard" F-7 weights (not the Super-Geared full
                                                                                                                  weight) part number 90711.
                                                                                                                  I have weights in the tower drive "A", but the tower-drive "B",
                                                                                                                  well, they went the same place that frame went.

                                                                                                                  Let me know, and I can get these diseasemals back to my brother and
                                                                                                                  try to get my eyesight back.
                                                                                                                  Thanks.

                                                                                                                  Dave




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                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2679 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Doesanyone have one?
                                                                                                                  one prerequisite for that--the manufacturer has to still be in business--  You might try whoever is importing the Rivarossi line--I think they make (made) an Allegheny.
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 1:30 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Doesanyone have one?

                                                                                                                  Sean N: Ask the manufacturer if the dies are still available... would
                                                                                                                  they consider running this product for you. I doesn't cost to ask....

                                                                                                                  Don L.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2680 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  I have two girls...
                                                                                                                  Besides... my wife would kill me.... then sell the Mustang... and all my trains...

                                                                                                                  John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Thanks, Jerry... Maybe this is why the original owner never finished
                                                                                                                  it... I will find one... If I have to sell my first born, I will!

                                                                                                                  What a guy, willing to sell his son to get a six wheel trailing truck.
                                                                                                                  I'd probably sell the Mustang first, but that's me.



                                                                                                                  Bored stiff? Loosen up...
                                                                                                                  Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2681 From: Rick Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: OT: Posting
                                                                                                                  Three times this week I have tried to post a message to the list
                                                                                                                  and it never came back to me in e-mail. The first two attempts were
                                                                                                                  about some items I acquired last weekend and included photos. The
                                                                                                                  third attempt was just a test message.
                                                                                                                  All three messages show up when looking at messages on the Yahoo
                                                                                                                  web site, they just aren't coming through the e-mail with everybody
                                                                                                                  else's postings. I'm writing this at the web site rather than
                                                                                                                  e-mailing it to see if this is more successful.
                                                                                                                  Any ideas why my messages are getting blocked from the e-mails?

                                                                                                                  Rick Jones
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2682 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  Sean:
                                                                                                                   Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.
                                                                                                                    Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.
                                                                                                                    Mike Looney
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2683 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  Hey Mike,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thanks, I think however, I am going to avoid Rivarossi at all costs... No plastic on my model... I never imagined it would be so difficult to find one, however...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I think I may have to build on of my own... I have a couple brass trailing trucks I can play with. I would not mind eventually getting an Arbor Models engine eventually.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thanks..
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Sean

                                                                                                                  "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Sean:
                                                                                                                   Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.
                                                                                                                    Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.
                                                                                                                    Mike Looney


                                                                                                                  Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
                                                                                                                  always stay connected to friends.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2684 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  Hey Mike,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thanks, I think however, I am going to avoid Rivarossi at all costs... No plastic on my model... I never imagined it would be so difficult to find one, however...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I think I may have to build on of my own... I have a couple brass trailing trucks I can play with. I would not mind eventually getting an Arbor Models engine eventually.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thanks..
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Sean

                                                                                                                  "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Sean:
                                                                                                                   Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.
                                                                                                                    Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.
                                                                                                                    Mike Looney


                                                                                                                  Never miss an email again!
                                                                                                                  Yahoo! Toolbar
                                                                                                                  alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2685 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  Hey Mike,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thanks, I think however, I am going to avoid Rivarossi at all costs... No plastic on my model... I never imagined it would be so difficult to find one, however...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I think I may have to build on of my own... I have a couple brass trailing trucks I can play with. I would not mind eventually getting an Arbor Models engine eventually.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thanks..
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Sean

                                                                                                                  "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Sean:
                                                                                                                   Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.
                                                                                                                    Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.
                                                                                                                    Mike Looney


                                                                                                                  Get your own web address.
                                                                                                                  Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2686 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  Sorry about the three replies... I kept getting an error message when I tried to send it...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Sean

                                                                                                                  "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Sean:
                                                                                                                   Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.
                                                                                                                    Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.
                                                                                                                    Mike Looney


                                                                                                                  Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2687 From: sean naylor Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  Thanks Glenn
                                                                                                                  Se3an

                                                                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  PSC is Precision Scale Co.  THE biggest manufacturer of lost was detail parts. They do a lot of parts for the brass importers. 
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Precision Scale Co. 2383 Meridian Rd. Victor, MT 59875  (406) 642-3901
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  They have several catalogs--there is so much stuff. You will want the HO Steam Loco Parts catalog. I'd bet they have one--gj
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:38 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                  Hey Glen,
                                                                                                                  The more I have looked into it, I think the goal of this extended Bowser shell looks like it might have been the Allegheny. I checked Bowser today and found nothing... I figured I would call them next. PSC? I have no idea what that is...
                                                                                                                  Thanks, Sean

                                                                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                                                                  There was one earlier loco of that wheel arrangement- -the Super Allegheny class on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. As I recall it had a Belpaire firebox.   Have you tried PSC?
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:36 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                  Hey Guys!
                                                                                                                  I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one? I have
                                                                                                                  7 challengers and one has that dreaded diecast rot. I found a listing
                                                                                                                  on eBay for a bunch of shells. Included in the lot was a Bowser
                                                                                                                  Challenger shell. When it came, I noticed the firebox had been
                                                                                                                  lengthened by almost 1/2 inch (quite nicely actually with the use of
                                                                                                                  another challenger shell). So I have decided to make a 4-6-6-6 out of
                                                                                                                  it... It seems to be the only thing that would work without further
                                                                                                                  modification. .. Does anyone have one... I will buy, trade.. whatever to
                                                                                                                  get my hands on one... Thanks, Sean



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                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2688 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: OT: Posting
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  From: "Rick" <r.t.jones@...>
                                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:14 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] OT: Posting


                                                                                                                  > Three times this week I have tried to post a message to the list
                                                                                                                  > and it never came back to me in e-mail. The first two attempts were
                                                                                                                  > about some items I acquired last weekend and included photos. The
                                                                                                                  > third attempt was just a test message.
                                                                                                                  > All three messages show up when looking at messages on the Yahoo
                                                                                                                  > web site, they just aren't coming through the e-mail with everybody
                                                                                                                  > else's postings. I'm writing this at the web site rather than
                                                                                                                  > e-mailing it to see if this is more successful.
                                                                                                                  > Any ideas why my messages are getting blocked from the e-mails?
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Rick Jones

                                                                                                                  Did you see my reply to your test?

                                                                                                                  From your SBC home page, click on email, and look in your "bulk" folder.
                                                                                                                  I'll bet you'll find your message there, open it, then click the "not spam"
                                                                                                                  button on the top of the page, that will automatically move your message to
                                                                                                                  your "in box" folder. I often find that SBC-Yahoo's "spam guard plus",
                                                                                                                  while the best filter out there (IMHO), will sometimes put my group messages
                                                                                                                  there because they show the sender and recipient name as the same. I always
                                                                                                                  check the bulk folder daily just to see if there's messages in there that
                                                                                                                  shouldn't be.

                                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                  Co-owner
                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2689 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/16/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  I won't say it.......
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   aw, whet the heck, I WILL say it :-)....
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                    Got a new car for my wife.  Good trade. <GD&R>
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Don
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:04 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                  I have two girls...
                                                                                                                  Besides... my wife would kill me.... then sell the Mustang... and all my trains...

                                                                                                                  John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...>
                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Thanks, Jerry... Maybe this is why the original owner never finished
                                                                                                                  it... I will find one... If I have to sell my first born, I will!

                                                                                                                  What a guy, willing to sell his son to get a six wheel trailing truck.
                                                                                                                  I'd probably sell the Mustang first, but that's me.



                                                                                                                  Bored stiff? Loosen up...
                                                                                                                  Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2690 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: OT: Posting
                                                                                                                  Rick,
                                                                                                                  I don't remember your other messages but this one came through just fine..

                                                                                                                  Dave S.

                                                                                                                  My Railroad picture pages are at
                                                                                                                  www.flickr.com/photos/des-productions
                                                                                                                  Miscellaneous other pictures are at
                                                                                                                  www.flickr.com/photos/des-productions1



                                                                                                                  Rick wrote:
                                                                                                                  > Three times this week I have tried to post a message to the list
                                                                                                                  > and it never came back to me in e-mail. The first two attempts were
                                                                                                                  > about some items I acquired last weekend and included photos. The
                                                                                                                  > third attempt was just a test message.
                                                                                                                  > All three messages show up when looking at messages on the Yahoo
                                                                                                                  > web site, they just aren't coming through the e-mail with everybody
                                                                                                                  > else's postings. I'm writing this at the web site rather than
                                                                                                                  > e-mailing it to see if this is more successful.
                                                                                                                  > Any ideas why my messages are getting blocked from the e-mails?
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Rick Jones
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2691 From: a69mustang4me Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  Ok, I am such an idiot...

                                                                                                                  I just opened my MR encyclopedia and compared this shell to the
                                                                                                                  Challenger and the Big Boy. A fellow member informed me that this was
                                                                                                                  Bowser Big Boy shell and that is how it was originally made. ( I could
                                                                                                                  not re-find his email to be sure I was not dreaming it or tho thank
                                                                                                                  him. ) It looks to me like it is the big boy... So, now, I need the
                                                                                                                  entire chassis for a big boy.... Looks like I will be contacting Bowser
                                                                                                                  after all! Thanks Guys!
                                                                                                                  Sean
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2692 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: OT: Posting
                                                                                                                  Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  > From: "Rick" <r.t.jones@...>
                                                                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                  > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:14 PM
                                                                                                                  > Subject: [vintageHO] OT: Posting
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >> Three times this week I have tried to post a message to the list
                                                                                                                  >> and it never came back to me in e-mail. The first two attempts were
                                                                                                                  >> about some items I acquired last weekend and included photos. The
                                                                                                                  >> third attempt was just a test message.
                                                                                                                  >> All three messages show up when looking at messages on the Yahoo
                                                                                                                  >> web site, they just aren't coming through the e-mail with everybody
                                                                                                                  >> else's postings. I'm writing this at the web site rather than
                                                                                                                  >> e-mailing it to see if this is more successful.
                                                                                                                  >> Any ideas why my messages are getting blocked from the e-mails?
                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                  >> Rick Jones
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Did you see my reply to your test?
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >>From your SBC home page, click on email, and look in your "bulk" folder.
                                                                                                                  > I'll bet you'll find your message there, open it, then click the "not spam"
                                                                                                                  > button on the top of the page, that will automatically move your message to
                                                                                                                  > your "in box" folder. I often find that SBC-Yahoo's "spam guard plus",
                                                                                                                  > while the best filter out there (IMHO), will sometimes put my group messages
                                                                                                                  > there because they show the sender and recipient name as the same. I always
                                                                                                                  > check the bulk folder daily just to see if there's messages in there that
                                                                                                                  > shouldn't be.

                                                                                                                  No, I didn't see the reply to the test but I saw this one and it was
                                                                                                                  just as you said. I guess I was not even aware of that feature since I
                                                                                                                  moved to SBC DSL in November. I found over 180 messages in that Junk
                                                                                                                  folder, about 10% of which should not have been there. I'm actually
                                                                                                                  surprised at how much spam I'd accumulated over the past 3.5 months
                                                                                                                  since this e-dress has only been in use for that amount of time. Doesn't
                                                                                                                  take the vermin much time to harvest and begin using new e-dresses, does it?
                                                                                                                  Hopefully, since I've marked those messages and others as Not Spam
                                                                                                                  things will come through more readily.

                                                                                                                  --

                                                                                                                  Rick Jones

                                                                                                                  The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                                                  I read recipes the same way I read science fiction. I get to the
                                                                                                                  end and think, "Well, that's not going to happen."
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2693 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                                                  Hello;
                                                                                                                  I just found a copy of the Assembly Instructions for the
                                                                                                                  Penn Line D-2 switcher with the worm and gear drive. They will
                                                                                                                  hopefully be put up at HOSEEKER.com soon.

                                                                                                                  Also - did you get the set of pics I emailed to you?

                                                                                                                  Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                                                  sean naylor wrote:

                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Hey Joe!
                                                                                                                  > Send them right over! I will take what ever you have to offer! Thanks...
                                                                                                                  > I was thinking I might try to duplicate the scene pictured in the tiny
                                                                                                                  > display using the engine I have. As I already stated, I think the smoke
                                                                                                                  > stack was filed down..that would be easy enough to repair with brass
                                                                                                                  > tubing of the same diameter... The window rail is a little harder and I
                                                                                                                  > really can not make out the paint... I would love to see your picturs...
                                                                                                                  > I hae already googled the names of all three owners of Penn Line and
                                                                                                                  > they all lead back to that same site and that is it... Other than a road
                                                                                                                  > trip, I think info might soon wear thin, but then again, who knows....
                                                                                                                  > Sean
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Sean.....
                                                                                                                  > I found my pics of the silver dollar Whitcomb. One is
                                                                                                                  > exactly like your overhead shot of the item. The rest
                                                                                                                  > are all different from your pair. I also have 2 emails
                                                                                                                  > that attribute the silver dollar display to Abe at
                                                                                                                  > Penn Line. If you would like I can forward all of
                                                                                                                  > the items to you at your email address - just say
                                                                                                                  > you want them. One of the pics is of a pristine
                                                                                                                  > ready to run Whitcomb, probably around 1960. It was
                                                                                                                  > an ebay item several years ago as was one of the
                                                                                                                  > silver dollar diaplays (got all of my pics from ebay
                                                                                                                  > auctions). I bid on both the display and the pristine
                                                                                                                  > whitcomb and didn't even come close.
                                                                                                                  > Just remmebered that one of the pics is of the
                                                                                                                  > assembly instructions for the Whitcomb.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Still can't believe how this thread has grown and
                                                                                                                  > all the interesting info that is still showing up.
                                                                                                                  > A lot of stuff on a very small switcher.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                  > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                  > > That looks like the idea. Somewhere I have a pic
                                                                                                                  > > of the one I'm talking about sans the little town
                                                                                                                  > > scene in your pic.
                                                                                                                  > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                  > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                  > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@>
                                                                                                                  > wrote:
                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                  > > > Hey Joe...
                                                                                                                  > > > Here you go... Here is the proof of your legend!
                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                  > > > I looked both pictures over very closely last night. The two
                                                                                                                  > > engines are very simular, however are different... The color photo is
                                                                                                                  > > more like the later Whitcomb. The black and white ad is more like the
                                                                                                                  > > one I have in many ways (Note the lack of front and rear steps - the
                                                                                                                  > > air tank bands seem to go straight up to the underside of the deck -
                                                                                                                  > > no headlight protruding - longer and possibly a wire grab iron on top
                                                                                                                  > > of the hood (explains the holes seen in the top of my deck (if you
                                                                                                                  > > look even closer at that photo, you can see white specks of what
                                                                                                                  > > appears to be something else sticking up between the bell and grab
                                                                                                                  > > iron. I have holes located there, but have no idea why) - possibly
                                                                                                                  > > smooth sides and roof on the cab) The white outlines in the ad photo
                                                                                                                  > > appear (to me) to be edge glare from the light and not painted pin
                                                                                                                  > > striping.
                                                                                                                  > > > Sean
                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                  > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                  > > > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                                                                                                                  > > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                  > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                                                                                                                  > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating"
                                                                                                                  > <http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE4MGw4Z2hlBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW5jZW50ZXI->
                                                                                                                  > at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2694 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                                                  Hello Joe,
                                                                                                                  Thaks, I will have to remember to look for them... I did get your pics... Thanks.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I emailed this to you the last time... maybe you did not get it or missed it....
                                                                                                                  Sean
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  See attached following copy of the previous email:
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Printable View This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message - Mark as Unread ]
                                                                                                                  Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:11:00 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                  From: "sean naylor" <a69mustang4me@...>  View Contact Details  View Contact Details   Add Mobile Alert
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: did you get the ....
                                                                                                                  To: oljoe@...
                                                                                                                  I sure did... Thanks. Sorry, I kind of lost my head the past couple of days... I have not been paying too much attention to my emails since Friday b/c I had 54 N scale engines show up on Friday and I have been listing them like crazy to try to get my money back. I like to sell the N scale to pay for my HO scale habit.  I also fixed both of our toilets this weekend and went to a train show in Butler Pa yesterday.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I looked over the pics and they looked great, however they are of definite Whitcomb version. There is also a small switcher (like the kind you sent) sitting on a large concrete pedestal above/behind a used car dealership (why?) near my house... I assume it was painted reddish orange at some time, b/c it is almost pink now.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I took the Penn Line?? to the show with me yesterday with the hopes of someone being able to confirm the identity of the engine... No definitive luck! I had one guy try to tell me - even the Whitcomb! - was actually Fleischmann! He said all Penn lines were actually made by Fleischmann! I told him that may have been true for some later model, but not the early and not the Whitcomb (which has never, to my knowledge, been reproduced by anyone other than Penn Line!) What an ass... I did not even bother pulling my engine out of it's box...I knew right away that guy was a know-it-all who actually knew nothing. I took it to another older guy (70's plus in age) I knew from past trading (He kit bashed a Penn Central FL-9 which I traded him a bunch of Brass detail pieces for.). He immediately said Penn Line...  But he had never seen one like it before...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I think my only option now is to go to the source and try to get in contact with some descendants of the designer Abe. I found and printed out three different addresses on Friday.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Did you get a good look at the black and white photo...? Not the color, like you sent me... The other one... There are way too many similarities for it not to be Penn Line...
                                                                                                                  Thanks again for the pics, Sean

                                                                                                                  oljoe@... wrote:
                                                                                                                  Did you get the Penn Line photos I sent several days ago.
                                                                                                                  Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                  No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                                                  with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2695 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                                                  I sure didn't get your email.
                                                                                                                  That "pink" Whitcomb must have been put there by Lionel :-)).

                                                                                                                  I will email you when I see the D-2 on the site.....

                                                                                                                  That idiot that tried to tell you Fleischman made it is
                                                                                                                  just plain NUTS. It's way too crude for anything Fleischman.

                                                                                                                  By the way I have a Penn Line CD put out by one of the
                                                                                                                  family folks. Don't know where I put it but I'm looking.

                                                                                                                  Got to take a look at the B/W photo you mentioned.

                                                                                                                  Joe O'Loughlin



                                                                                                                  sean naylor wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Hello Joe,
                                                                                                                  > Thaks, I will have to remember to look for them... I did get your
                                                                                                                  > pics... Thanks.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I emailed this to you the last time... maybe you did not get it or
                                                                                                                  > missed it....
                                                                                                                  > Sean
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > See attached following copy of the previous email:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Printable View
                                                                                                                  > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&PRINT=1&ShowImages=&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1>
                                                                                                                  > This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message
                                                                                                                  > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&FLG=1&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1>
                                                                                                                  > - Mark as Unread
                                                                                                                  > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&UNR=1&.crumb=Th/PpUeS.wT&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1>
                                                                                                                  > ]
                                                                                                                  > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:11:00 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                  > From: "sean naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> View Contact Details
                                                                                                                  > View Contact Details
                                                                                                                  > <http://address.mail.yahoo.com/yab?.rand=45672&v=SA&A=t&em=a69mustang4me%40yahoo.com&.done=http%3a%2f%2fus.f317.mail.yahoo.com%2fym%2fShowLetter%3fMsgId%3d1860%5f5642115%5f927%5f656%5f1741%5f50459%5f53239%26sbox%3d%2540S%2540Search%26Idx%3d0%26pos%3d0%26Search%3d1%26box%3d%40S%40Search%26> Add
                                                                                                                  > Mobile Alert
                                                                                                                  > <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter;_ylc=X3oDMTRpb3M1MHF0BEFjdGlvbgNWaWV3IG1lc3NhZ2UESW50bAN1cwRMbmtUeXADUmVndWxhcgRSZXNQb3NBAzEEUmVzUG9zUgMxBFNyY2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ2UEU3JjaERlc3QDbWVzc2FnZXZpZXcEX1F1ZXJ5SWQDMjE3MjMxOTQ3MzQ1ZDc1YzBjYjE0NzIE#>
                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: did you get the ....
                                                                                                                  > To: oljoe@...
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I sure did... Thanks. Sorry, I kind of lost my head the past couple of
                                                                                                                  > days... I have not been paying too much attention to my emails since
                                                                                                                  > Friday b/c I had 54 N scale engines show up on Friday and I have been
                                                                                                                  > listing them like crazy to try to get my money back. I like to sell the
                                                                                                                  > N scale to pay for my HO scale habit. I also fixed both of our toilets
                                                                                                                  > this weekend and went to a train show in Butler Pa yesterday.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I looked over the pics and they looked great, however they are of
                                                                                                                  > definite Whitcomb version. There is also a small switcher (like the kind
                                                                                                                  > you sent) sitting on a large concrete pedestal above/behind a used car
                                                                                                                  > dealership (why?) near my house... I assume it was painted reddish
                                                                                                                  > orange at some time, b/c it is almost pink now.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I took the Penn Line?? to the show with me yesterday with the hopes of
                                                                                                                  > someone being able to confirm the identity of the engine... No
                                                                                                                  > definitive luck! I had one guy try to tell me - even the Whitcomb! - was
                                                                                                                  > actually Fleischmann! He said all Penn lines were actually made by
                                                                                                                  > Fleischmann! I told him that may have been true for some later model,
                                                                                                                  > but not the early and not the Whitcomb (which has never, to my
                                                                                                                  > knowledge, been reproduced by anyone other than Penn Line!) What an
                                                                                                                  > ass... I did not even bother pulling my engine out of it's box...I knew
                                                                                                                  > right away that guy was a know-it-all who actually knew nothing. I took
                                                                                                                  > it to another older guy (70's plus in age) I knew from past trading
                                                                                                                  > (He kit bashed a Penn Central FL-9 which I traded him a bunch of Brass
                                                                                                                  > detail pieces for.). He immediately said Penn Line... But he had never
                                                                                                                  > seen one like it before...
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I think my only option now is to go to the source and try to get in
                                                                                                                  > contact with some descendants of the designer Abe. I found and printed
                                                                                                                  > out three different addresses on Friday.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Did you get a good look at the black and white photo...? Not the color,
                                                                                                                  > like you sent me... The other one... There are way too many similarities
                                                                                                                  > for it not to be Penn Line...
                                                                                                                  > Thanks again for the pics, Sean
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > oljoe@... wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Did you get the Penn Line photos I sent several days ago.
                                                                                                                  > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                  > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
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                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2696 From: takefive247 Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                  Bill
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2697 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini

                                                                                                                  Joe,

                                                                                                                  When you find it, is there a website listed on it?  Where can one find such a CD?

                                                                                                                  Thanks,

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of oljoe@...
                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:46 PM
                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                  Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  I sure didn't get your email.
                                                                                                                  That "pink" Whitcomb must have been put there by Lionel :-)).

                                                                                                                  I will email you when I see the D-2 on the site.....

                                                                                                                  That idiot that tried to tell you Fleischman made it is
                                                                                                                  just plain NUTS. It's way too crude for anything Fleischman.

                                                                                                                  By the way I have a Penn Line CD put out by one of the
                                                                                                                  family folks. Don't know where I put it but I'm looking.

                                                                                                                  Got to take a look at the B/W photo you mentioned.

                                                                                                                  Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                                                  sean naylor wrote:

                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Hello Joe,
                                                                                                                  > Thaks, I will have to remember to look for them... I did get your
                                                                                                                  > pics... Thanks.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I emailed this to you the last time... maybe you did not get it or
                                                                                                                  > missed it....
                                                                                                                  > Sean
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > See attached following copy of the previous email:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Printable View
                                                                                                                  > <
                                                                                                                  href="http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&PRINT=1&ShowImages=&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1">http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r?box=Sent& MsgId=1860_ 5642115_50459_ 656_1741_ 0_53239_5208_ 3649266062& Idx=0&Search= 1&PRINT=1& ShowImages= &YY=69498& y5beta=yes& order=&sort= &pos=0&B= 1>
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                                                                                                                  > ]
                                                                                                                  > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:11:00 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                  > From: "sean naylor" <
                                                                                                                  href="mailto:a69mustang4me%40yahoo.com">a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> View Contact Details
                                                                                                                  > View Contact Details
                                                                                                                  > <
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                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: did you get the ....
                                                                                                                  > To: oljoe@landolls. com
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I sure did... Thanks. Sorry, I kind of lost my head the past couple of
                                                                                                                  > days... I have not been paying too much attention to my emails since
                                                                                                                  > Friday b/c I had 54 N scale engines show up on Friday and I have been
                                                                                                                  > listing them like crazy to try to get my money back. I like to sell the
                                                                                                                  > N scale to pay for my HO scale habit. I also fixed both of our toilets
                                                                                                                  > this weekend and went to a train show in
                                                                                                                  w:st="on">Butler Pa yesterday.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I looked over the pics and they looked great, however they are of
                                                                                                                  > definite Whitcomb version. There is also a small switcher (like the kind
                                                                                                                  > you sent) sitting on a large concrete pedestal above/behind a used car
                                                                                                                  > dealership (why?) near my house... I assume it was painted reddish
                                                                                                                  > orange at some time, b/c it is almost pink now.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I took the Penn Line?? to the show with me yesterday with the hopes of
                                                                                                                  > someone being able to confirm the identity of the engine... No
                                                                                                                  > definitive luck! I had one guy try to tell me - even the Whitcomb! - was
                                                                                                                  > actually Fleischmann! He said all Penn lines were actually made by
                                                                                                                  > Fleischmann! I told him that may have been true for some later model,
                                                                                                                  > but not the early and not the Whitcomb (which has never, to my
                                                                                                                  > knowledge, been reproduced by anyone other than Penn Line!) What an
                                                                                                                  > ass... I did not even bother pulling my engine out of it's box...I knew
                                                                                                                  > right away that guy was a know-it-all who actually knew nothing. I took
                                                                                                                  > it to another older guy (70's plus in age) I knew from past trading
                                                                                                                  > (He kit bashed a Penn Central FL-9 which I traded him a bunch of Brass
                                                                                                                  > detail pieces for.). He immediately said Penn Line... But he had never
                                                                                                                  > seen one like it before...
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I think my only option now is to go to the source and try to get in
                                                                                                                  > contact with some descendants of the designer Abe. I found and printed
                                                                                                                  > out three different addresses on Friday.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Did you get a good look at the black and white photo...? Not the color,
                                                                                                                  > like you sent me... The other one... There are way too many similarities
                                                                                                                  > for it not to be Penn Line...
                                                                                                                  > Thanks again for the pics, Sean
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > oljoe@landolls. com wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Did you get the Penn Line photos I sent several days ago.
                                                                                                                  > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                                                                                  > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
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                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile .
                                                                                                                  Get started.
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                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2698 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  1950'S on up. Roger Aultman



                                                                                                                  takefive247 wrote:
                                                                                                                  > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                  > Bill
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                  --
                                                                                                                  http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2699 From: jay matz Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  Bill
                                                                                                                  The General didn't come out till after WW2 not in the 30s.
                                                                                                                  Jay

                                                                                                                  takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                  Bill



                                                                                                                  No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                                                  with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2700 From: Martin Rosenfeld Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  On 02/17/07 takefive247 wrote:
                                                                                                                  > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309

                                                                                                                  At least it has brass handrails and domes!

                                                                                                                  Martin Rosenfeld
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2701 From: John Barlow Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  Dear Group,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I think you will find the model manifestation of the "General" came on the heels of the Walt Disney movie, starring Fess Parker, of "The Great Locomotive Chase". That was made in the mid-1950's. I would be interested in seeing any catalog info on Mantua of the 1930's or 1940's, if any exists. Seriously, from just a historic perspective.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                  takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                  Bill



                                                                                                                  Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                                                                                                                  Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2702 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  From: "takefive247" <takefive@...>
                                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?


                                                                                                                  > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                  > Bill

                                                                                                                  I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on
                                                                                                                  "HO".

                                                                                                                  1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting
                                                                                                                  bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id
                                                                                                                  be tempted to go $25.00.

                                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                  Co-owner
                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2703 From: John Hagen Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  > From: "takefive247" <takefive@...>
                                                                                                                  Ya know, this knd of stuff pis...irratates the heck out of me. I have
                                                                                                                  sold things on ebay and I tried to give an honest assessment of the
                                                                                                                  item based on what I knew about it. And if I didn't know much about
                                                                                                                  it I didn't write a bunch of B.S. that only serves to make the seller
                                                                                                                  look either crooked or stupid or both. Which is the most likely. And
                                                                                                                  then, although he tries to sound like he knows what he's talking
                                                                                                                  about, he says he doesn't know if it RUNS!!! What kind of a guy who
                                                                                                                  has any actual knowledge of model trains doesn't have some way of
                                                                                                                  putting it on a piece of track and turning on the power. I mean it's
                                                                                                                  HO fer crying out loud. Maybe if it was "O" or "S" scale he couldn't
                                                                                                                  find available powered track buy even then, 2 wires and 12 volts.
                                                                                                                  H**l he's most certainly has an automobile or knows someone who does.
                                                                                                                  Don't know if it runs. Crap. That'a like those IDIOTS that list some
                                                                                                                  rare classic automobile and go on and on all about the car and then
                                                                                                                  says "I haven't tried to start it." And expects big dollar bids. But,
                                                                                                                  like Don said, at least he put a reasonable starting price on it.

                                                                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                  > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM
                                                                                                                  > Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                  > > Bill
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting
                                                                                                                  over on
                                                                                                                  > "HO".
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair
                                                                                                                  starting
                                                                                                                  > bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance
                                                                                                                  day" Id
                                                                                                                  > be tempted to go $25.00.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Don
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2704 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                  How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG

                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM
                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net>
                                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                  > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                  > Bill

                                                                                                                  I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on
                                                                                                                  "HO".

                                                                                                                  1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting
                                                                                                                  bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id
                                                                                                                  be tempted to go $25.00.

                                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                                  don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                  Co-owner
                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2705 From: Dst8596587@aol.com Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  First marketed in 1953 and has been produced under both the Tyco and Mantua name. I also believe that American Flyer catalouged a set using this engine in HO.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Don
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2706 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  You could take a plastic one and have a brass investment casting made from it--that sacrifices the plastic one--
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:12 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                  Hey Mike,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thanks, I think however, I am going to avoid Rivarossi at all costs... No plastic on my model... I never imagined it would be so difficult to find one, however...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I think I may have to build on of my own... I have a couple brass trailing trucks I can play with. I would not mind eventually getting an Arbor Models engine eventually.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thanks..
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Sean

                                                                                                                  "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@ comcast.net> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Sean:
                                                                                                                   Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.
                                                                                                                    Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.
                                                                                                                    Mike Looney


                                                                                                                  Never miss an email again!
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                                                                                                                  alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2707 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                                                  Hello,

                                                                                                                  This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                                                  a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                                                  group.

                                                                                                                  File : /Bronze Streamliner.jpg
                                                                                                                  Uploaded by : mwbauers <mwbauers55@...>
                                                                                                                  Description : One I've read about........ But can't be sure of the maker.

                                                                                                                  You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Bronze%20Streamliner.jpg

                                                                                                                  To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                                                  http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                                                  Regards,

                                                                                                                  mwbauers <mwbauers55@...>
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2708 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                                                  I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                  I don't know just which model it is..............

                                                                                                                  I have only a rough idea.......

                                                                                                                  So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2709 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                  Varney streamlined Hudson? should pull a ton if you restore it.
                                                                                                                  Roger Aultman




                                                                                                                  Mike Bauers wrote:
                                                                                                                  > I just got this model today.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I don't know just which model it is..............
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I have only a rough idea.......
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO
                                                                                                                  > locomotive' ........
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!!
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Best to ya'
                                                                                                                  > Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                  > Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                  --
                                                                                                                  http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2710 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  NOT 1930's (more like 1950's) and NOT brass.  Price isn't bad for what it is.  gj
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  From: jay matz
                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:28 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                  Bill
                                                                                                                  The General didn't come out till after WW2 not in the 30s.
                                                                                                                  Jay

                                                                                                                  takefive247 <takefive@snet. net> wrote:

                                                                                                                  Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                  Bill



                                                                                                                  No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                                                  with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2711 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?
                                                                                                                  That is an idea... never thought of it that way.... Sean

                                                                                                                  Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  You could take a plastic one and have a brass investment casting made from it--that sacrifices the plastic one--
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:12 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I need a 6 wheel - 3 axle trailing truck! Does anyone have one?

                                                                                                                  Hey Mike,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thanks, I think however, I am going to avoid Rivarossi at all costs... No plastic on my model... I never imagined it would be so difficult to find one, however...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  I think I may have to build on of my own... I have a couple brass trailing trucks I can play with. I would not mind eventually getting an Arbor Models engine eventually.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thanks..
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Sean

                                                                                                                  "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@ comcast.net> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Sean:
                                                                                                                   Find someone that has part for a Rivarossi Allegheny engine and you will find your 6 wheel trailing truck. Walther's might have the part in stock, because they were the only one that had release the engine beside Arbour Models, back in the early 60.
                                                                                                                    Bowser did buy out Arbour Model, but I don't see them doing anything with it because it was to hard to build there engine, and to hard to keep it together. I have two of there engine still sitting here, and that is where they are going to stay in the boxes.
                                                                                                                    Mike Looney


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                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2712 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  On some of the sites I regularly visit, I will sometimes send the seller a message if it looks like he might actually make a change in the listing.   I particularly frequent OO Scale and On3--in one case I wound up finding  out the seller was the cousin of a guy I had known back in grade school.    Some of these guys really do not know what they have
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  gj
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  From: John Hagen
                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:31 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  > From: "takefive247" <takefive@.. .>
                                                                                                                  Ya know, this knd of stuff pis...irratates the heck out of me. I have
                                                                                                                  sold things on ebay and I tried to give an honest assessment of the
                                                                                                                  item based on what I knew about it. And if I didn't know much about
                                                                                                                  it I didn't write a bunch of B.S. that only serves to make the seller
                                                                                                                  look either crooked or stupid or both. Which is the most likely. And
                                                                                                                  then, although he tries to sound like he knows what he's talking
                                                                                                                  about, he says he doesn't know if it RUNS!!! What kind of a guy who
                                                                                                                  has any actual knowledge of model trains doesn't have some way of
                                                                                                                  putting it on a piece of track and turning on the power. I mean it's
                                                                                                                  HO fer crying out loud. Maybe if it was "O" or "S" scale he couldn't
                                                                                                                  find available powered track buy even then, 2 wires and 12 volts.
                                                                                                                  H**l he's most certainly has an automobile or knows someone who does.
                                                                                                                  Don't know if it runs. Crap. That'a like those IDIOTS that list some
                                                                                                                  rare classic automobile and go on and on all about the car and then
                                                                                                                  says "I haven't tried to start it." And expects big dollar bids. But,
                                                                                                                  like Don said, at least he put a reasonable starting price on it.

                                                                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                  > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM
                                                                                                                  > Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                  > > Bill
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting
                                                                                                                  over on
                                                                                                                  > "HO".
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > 1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair
                                                                                                                  starting
                                                                                                                  > bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance
                                                                                                                  day" Id
                                                                                                                  > be tempted to go $25.00.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Don

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 2713 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Diesel.
                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                    Sounds great! Thanks! I would sure be interested to see what is on that CD... as well... Here is another copy of the black and white pic... you can clearly see the similarities between the B/W & my green weenie...  there are no steps (front or rear)... the flat bottom of the (what looks to be brass plate) chassis... The same squared-off gear box... the longer grab irons on top of the hood... (almost as but not as clear) non-protruding headlight... air tank straps that appear to go straight up to the underside of the deck...
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    hmmm...
                                                                                                                    Sean

                                                                                                                    oljoe@... wrote:
                                                                                                                    I sure didn't get your email.
                                                                                                                    That "pink" Whitcomb must have been put there by Lionel :-)).

                                                                                                                    I will email you when I see the D-2 on the site.....

                                                                                                                    That idiot that tried to tell you Fleischman made it is
                                                                                                                    just plain NUTS. It's way too crude for anything Fleischman.

                                                                                                                    By the way I have a Penn Line CD put out by one of the
                                                                                                                    family folks. Don't know where I put it but I'm looking.

                                                                                                                    Got to take a look at the B/W photo you mentioned.

                                                                                                                    Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                                                    sean naylor wrote:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Hello Joe,
                                                                                                                    > Thaks, I will have to remember to look for them... I did get your
                                                                                                                    > pics... Thanks.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > I emailed this to you the last time... maybe you did not get it or
                                                                                                                    > missed it....
                                                                                                                    > Sean
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > See attached following copy of the previous email:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Printable View
                                                                                                                    > <http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r?box=Sent& MsgId=1860_ 5642115_50459_ 656_1741_ 0_53239_5208_ 3649266062& Idx=0&Search= 1&PRINT=1& ShowImages= &YY=69498& y5beta=yes& order=&sort= &pos=0&B= 1>
                                                                                                                    > This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message
                                                                                                                    > <http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r?box=Sent& MsgId=1860_ 5642115_50459_ 656_1741_ 0_53239_5208_ 3649266062& Idx=0&Search= 1&FLG=1&YY= 69498&y5beta= yes&order= &sort=&pos= 0&B=1>
                                                                                                                    > - Mark as Unread
                                                                                                                    > <http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r?box=Sent& MsgId=1860_ 5642115_50459_ 656_1741_ 0_53239_5208_ 3649266062& Idx=0&Search= 1&UNR=1&. crumb=Th/ PpUeS.wT& YY=69498& y5beta=yes& order=&sort= &pos=0&B= 1>
                                                                                                                    > ]
                                                                                                                    > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:11:00 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                    > From: "sean naylor" <a69mustang4me@ yahoo.com> View Contact Details
                                                                                                                    > View Contact Details
                                                                                                                    > <http://address. mail.yahoo. com/yab?. rand=45672& v=SA&A=t& em=a69mustang4me %40yahoo. com&.done= http%3a%2f% 2fus.f317. mail.yahoo. com%2fym% 2fShowLetter% 3fMsgId%3d1860% 5f5642115% 5f927%5f656% 5f1741%5f50459% 5f53239%26sbox% 3d%2540S% 2540Search% 26Idx%3d0% 26pos%3d0% 26Search% 3d1%26box% 3d%40S%40Search% 26> Add
                                                                                                                    > Mobile Alert
                                                                                                                    > <http://us.f317. mail.yahoo. com/ym/ShowLette r;_ylc=X3oDMTRpb 3M1MHF0BEFjdGlvb gNWaWV3IG1lc3NhZ 2UESW50bAN1cwRMb mtUeXADUmVndWxhc gRSZXNQb3NBAzEEU mVzUG9zUgMxBFNyY 2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ 2UEU3JjaERlc3QDb WVzc2FnZXZpZXcEX 1F1ZXJ5SWQDMjE3M jMxOTQ3MzQ1ZDc1Y zBjYjE0NzIE#>
                                                                                                                    > Subject: Re: did you get the ....
                                                                                                                    > To: oljoe@landolls. com
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > I sure did... Thanks. Sorry, I kind of lost my head the past couple of
                                                                                                                    > days... I have not been paying too much attention to my emails since
                                                                                                                    > Friday b/c I had 54 N scale engines show up on Friday and I have been
                                                                                                                    > listing them like crazy to try to get my money back. I like to sell the
                                                                                                                    > N scale to pay for my HO scale habit. I also fixed both of our toilets
                                                                                                                    > this weekend and went to a train show in Butler Pa yesterday.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > I looked over the pics and they looked great, however they are of
                                                                                                                    > definite Whitcomb version. There is also a small switcher (like the kind
                                                                                                                    > you sent) sitting on a large concrete pedestal above/behind a used car
                                                                                                                    > dealership (why?) near my house... I assume it was painted reddish
                                                                                                                    > orange at some time, b/c it is almost pink now.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > I took the Penn Line?? to the show with me yesterday with the hopes of
                                                                                                                    > someone being able to confirm the identity of the engine... No
                                                                                                                    > definitive luck! I had one guy try to tell me - even the Whitcomb! - was
                                                                                                                    > actually Fleischmann! He said all Penn lines were actually made by
                                                                                                                    > Fleischmann! I told him that may have been true for some later model,
                                                                                                                    > but not the early and not the Whitcomb (which has never, to my
                                                                                                                    > knowledge, been reproduced by anyone other than Penn Line!) What an
                                                                                                                    > ass... I did not even bother pulling my engine out of it's box...I knew
                                                                                                                    > right away that guy was a know-it-all who actually knew nothing. I took
                                                                                                                    > it to another older guy (70's plus in age) I knew from past trading
                                                                                                                    > (He kit bashed a Penn Central FL-9 which I traded him a bunch of Brass
                                                                                                                    > detail pieces for.). He immediately said Penn Line... But he had never
                                                                                                                    > seen one like it before...
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > I think my only option now is to go to the source and try to get in
                                                                                                                    > contact with some descendants of the designer Abe. I found and printed
                                                                                                                    > out three different addresses on Friday.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Did you get a good look at the black and white photo...? Not the color,
                                                                                                                    > like you sent me... The other one... There are way too many similarities
                                                                                                                    > for it not to be Penn Line...
                                                                                                                    > Thanks again for the pics, Sean
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > oljoe@landolls. com wrote:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Did you get the Penn Line photos I sent several days ago.
                                                                                                                    > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                                                                                    > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                                                    > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=43910/ *http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail >
                                                                                                                    > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                                                    > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=43910/ *http://mobile. yahoo.com/ mail >
                                                                                                                    >


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                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2714 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                    well--if there are two or more guys who want it that badly----
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    I notice that they bid history has been changed so as not to disclose the bidders--I liked the old way--I would not bid against certain friends, and definitely would not bid against the ones who seemed to have an "unlimited checkbook".  now, with "bidder #1" and "Bidder #2", etc--I don;to know who I am bidding against. 
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:33 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                    How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG


                                                                                                                    From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM
                                                                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?


                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net>
                                                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                    > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                    > Bill

                                                                                                                    I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on
                                                                                                                    "HO".

                                                                                                                    1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting
                                                                                                                    bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id
                                                                                                                    be tempted to go $25.00.

                                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                                    don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                    http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                    Co-owner
                                                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2715 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                    I think that puts it ahead of the Disney movie.
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:16 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                    First marketed in 1953 and has been produced under both the Tyco and Mantua name. I also believe that American Flyer catalouged a set using this engine in HO.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2716 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                    That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about last week, Varney.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Don'
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:19 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO]

                                                                                                                    I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                    I don't know just which model it is..............

                                                                                                                    I have only a rough idea.......

                                                                                                                    So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........



                                                                                                                    You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!!

                                                                                                                    Best to ya'
                                                                                                                    Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                    Milwaukee Wi, USA



                                                                                                                    I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                    I don't know just which model it is..............

                                                                                                                    I have only a rough idea.......

                                                                                                                    So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO 
                                                                                                                    locomotive' ........


                                                                                                                    You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost 
                                                                                                                    me !!!!

                                                                                                                    Best to ya'
                                                                                                                    Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                    Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2717 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                    I think someone just had one of these this past week--Varney Hudson. 
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:19 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO]

                                                                                                                    I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                    I don't know just which model it is..............

                                                                                                                    I have only a rough idea.......

                                                                                                                    So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........



                                                                                                                    You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!!

                                                                                                                    Best to ya'
                                                                                                                    Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                    Milwaukee Wi, USA



                                                                                                                    I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                    I don't know just which model it is..............

                                                                                                                    I have only a rough idea.......

                                                                                                                    So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO 
                                                                                                                    locomotive' ........


                                                                                                                    You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost 
                                                                                                                    me !!!!

                                                                                                                    Best to ya'
                                                                                                                    Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                    Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2718 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                    I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean

                                                                                                                    Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG

                                                                                                                    From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM
                                                                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net>
                                                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                    > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                    > Bill

                                                                                                                    I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on
                                                                                                                    "HO".

                                                                                                                    1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting
                                                                                                                    bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id
                                                                                                                    be tempted to go $25.00.

                                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                                    don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                    http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                    Co-owner
                                                                                                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY


                                                                                                                    Don't pick lemons.
                                                                                                                    See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2719 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                    Mike,
                                                                                                                    Just got mine last week... Looks exactly the same... heck, I paid $75 for the shell... you tell me yours and I might be sick... Sean

                                                                                                                    Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                    I don't know just which model it is..............

                                                                                                                    I have only a rough idea.......

                                                                                                                    So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO
                                                                                                                    locomotive' ........

                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                    You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost
                                                                                                                    me !!!!

                                                                                                                    Best to ya'
                                                                                                                    Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                    Milwaukee Wi, USA




                                                                                                                    8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                                                                                                                    with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 2720 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                      Don,
                                                                                                                      Here is mine... I threw it on a 4-6-2 chassis and switched the rear truck...
                                                                                                                      Sean

                                                                                                                      Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                      That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about last week, Varney.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Don'
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:19 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO]

                                                                                                                      I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                      I don't know just which model it is.......... ....

                                                                                                                      I have only a rough idea.......

                                                                                                                      So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO locomotive' ........



                                                                                                                      You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost me !!!!

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA



                                                                                                                      I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                      I don't know just which model it is.......... ....

                                                                                                                      I have only a rough idea.......

                                                                                                                      So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO 
                                                                                                                      locomotive' ........

                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                      You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost 
                                                                                                                      me !!!!

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA




                                                                                                                      Bored stiff? Loosen up...
                                                                                                                      Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2721 From: John Hagen Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                      Hey Sean,

                                                                                                                      Very clever idea, using an Aqufina bottle as an oil storage tank. Can't
                                                                                                                      wait to see it with paint, pipes, ladders, etc.

                                                                                                                      John Hagen

                                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Don,
                                                                                                                      > Here is mine... I threw it on a 4-6-2 chassis and switched the rear
                                                                                                                      truck...
                                                                                                                      > Sean
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >  That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about
                                                                                                                      last week, Varney.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Don'
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2722 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                      It's supposed to be a Hudson ?!?!?

                                                                                                                      Cool!

                                                                                                                      I'll see that it gets finished as one.

                                                                                                                      I finally got a sweet vintage Varney ............ I've wanted this
                                                                                                                      engine for a long, long time. She deserves being finally completed to
                                                                                                                      operational condition.

                                                                                                                      I need to be creative about putting decent gears into her.

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Feb 17, 2007, at 7:25 PM, Roger Aultman wrote:

                                                                                                                      > Varney streamlined Hudson? should pull a ton if you restore it.
                                                                                                                      > Roger Aultman
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Mike Bauers wrote:
                                                                                                                      >> I just got this model today.
                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                      >> I don't know just which model it is..............
                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                      >> I have only a rough idea.......
                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                      >> So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO
                                                                                                                      >> locomotive' ........
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2723 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                      A Varney Hudson......... 

                                                                                                                      Cool!!!

                                                                                                                      I've admired this engine from the first unidentified glimpses in older model railroad mags when I first got into the hobby in 1968.

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Feb 17, 2007, at 8:05 PM, Glenn Joesten wrote:

                                                                                                                      I think someone just had one of these this past week--Varney Hudson. 
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                      I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                      I don't know just which model it is..............

                                                                                                                      I have only a rough idea.......
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2724 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                      Hi Sean,

                                                                                                                      I was very, very lucky. I almost missed this, and certainly couldn't believe the price.

                                                                                                                      So I whipped out the money and nested it into my back-pack.

                                                                                                                      You would be very sick if I told you the price..... So let's leave it for later......

                                                                                                                      I got some other things from the same table that I am also puzzled about and will post soon. 

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Feb 17, 2007, at 8:21 PM, sean naylor wrote:

                                                                                                                      Mike,
                                                                                                                      Just got mine last week... Looks exactly the same... heck, I paid $75 for the shell... you tell me yours and I might be sick... Sean

                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                      I don't know just which model it is..............

                                                                                                                      I have only a rough idea.......

                                                                                                                      So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO
                                                                                                                      locomotive' ........

                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                      You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost
                                                                                                                      me !!!!
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2725 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                      She sure does look nice!

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Feb 17, 2007, at 8:27 PM, sean naylor wrote:

                                                                                                                      Don,
                                                                                                                      Here is mine... I threw it on a 4-6-2 chassis and switched the rear truck...
                                                                                                                      Sean

                                                                                                                      Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                      That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about last week, Varney.
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2726 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Mystery PA1
                                                                                                                      Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney Hudson parts.

                                                                                                                      Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting? 

                                                                                                                      It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts. I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose since there are no other open regions in the casting.
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2727 From: John Hagen Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
                                                                                                                      Mike,

                                                                                                                      Are the window "openings" solid cast or is it thin, like casting
                                                                                                                      flash.

                                                                                                                      John Hagen

                                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney
                                                                                                                      > Hudson parts.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal
                                                                                                                      casting?
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts.
                                                                                                                      > I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose
                                                                                                                      > since there are no other open regions in the casting.
                                                                                                                      > Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      > Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      > Milwaukee Wi, USA
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2728 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                      Funny Funny..Har Har... John.
                                                                                                                      I have to keep it real basic for a while...
                                                                                                                      Hey, if you had my 2 year old Godzilla roaming around your house.. you would keep your good stuff boxed up too... Got to keep the detail to a minimum for now... She takes after me... I remember when I was a little older than her... My brother had (and still has) a old wooden 40's Wurlitzer Jukebox  all torn apart... He had all the parts in boxes... including all the neon tubes..  He has never put it back together... I think the big reason is because when I was 4 or 5, I broke every single tube... It runs in the family... I had a display on the top shelf of my livingroom, next to the fireplace. On the shelf was some of my prize New Haven equipment... One of the nicest is a 2-8-2 which was sitting on top of a tall arch wooden trestle bridge. putting it nearly 8 feet off of the floor. At 1 year old, Godzilla climbed up the shelves, reached up and proceded to send it to the floor.. did not even knock the bridge over... Just the engine... I put them all away after that...
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      My 50 year old hand built 6 stall engine roundhouse which had a fully detailed interior, with working doors, cranes, crew pits, work benches, etc (it even has an office with a toilet, desk, chair, papers on the desk, coffee mug & pot on the pot bellied stove as well as nudie pictures on the stove) had every single window poked out... Now... I use a shoe box...
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      The roundhouse was built by the same guy who built the caboose I have interior pictures in my "Some of My Many Projects" folder on Don's site. The caboose has the same level of detail, including fire extinguishers, nudie pictures, coffee mugs & pots, bunk beds & fibre optic liting for the interior and exterior lanterns... The glue has come lose on some of it, so I have each one (was a lot of 28+ cabooses) in plastic zip-loc baggies holding all the details.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Sean

                                                                                                                      John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      Hey Sean,

                                                                                                                      Very clever idea, using an Aqufina bottle as an oil storage tank. Can't
                                                                                                                      wait to see it with paint, pipes, ladders, etc.

                                                                                                                      John Hagen

                                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, sean naylor <a69mustang4me@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Don,
                                                                                                                      > Here is mine... I threw it on a 4-6-2 chassis and switched the rear
                                                                                                                      truck...
                                                                                                                      > Sean
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >  That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about
                                                                                                                      last week, Varney.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Don'
                                                                                                                      >



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                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2729 From: jay matz Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                      I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells.
                                                                                                                      I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation.
                                                                                                                      Jay

                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney
                                                                                                                      Hudson parts.

                                                                                                                      Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting?

                                                                                                                      It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts.
                                                                                                                      I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose
                                                                                                                      since there are no other open regions in the casting.
                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA




                                                                                                                      Get your own web address.
                                                                                                                      Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2730 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Mystery Mohawk
                                                                                                                      Here's a mystery HO Mohawk I got a long with the Varney Hudson parts.......

                                                                                                                      It is mostly etched brass with white metal lead and trailing trucks. The etchings include the road name and the cab numbers

                                                                                                                      The only brand name I can find is on the bottom of the cast lead truck, 'Varney'.

                                                                                                                      I suspect this lead truck is  a stock Varney replacement part, or the original from the Varney Hudson that was part of the same estate.

                                                                                                                      Perhaps the etched brass Mohawk is of the same era as the Varney streamliined Hudson, making this quite an old imported Mohawk.

                                                                                                                      I may have read about this one a very long time ago where it's distinctive build was discussed.

                                                                                                                      Is this familiar to anyone???

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2731 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
                                                                                                                      Lindsay did have a PA-1, which I believe was later also made by Kemtron.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Don
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: jay matz
                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:07 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery PA1

                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                      I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells.
                                                                                                                      I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation.
                                                                                                                      Jay

                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney
                                                                                                                      Hudson parts.

                                                                                                                      Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting?

                                                                                                                      It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts.
                                                                                                                      I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose
                                                                                                                      since there are no other open regions in the casting.
                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA




                                                                                                                      Get your own web address.
                                                                                                                      Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2732 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                      Many thanks Don,

                                                                                                                      I was quite unsure about this one.

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Feb 17, 2007, at 7:45 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                                                                                      That's the same boiler the Sean was talking about last week, Varney.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Don'
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2733 From: John Barlow Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
                                                                                                                      Dear Mike,
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      The loco in the photo looks more 4-8-4 in potential configuration to me than a "Mohawk."
                                                                                                                      I had a brass "Niagara" and a "Mohawk" years ago, and this charming relic looks like a "Niagara".
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      Here's a mystery HO Mohawk I got a long with the Varney Hudson
                                                                                                                      parts.......

                                                                                                                      It is mostly etched brass with white metal lead and trailing trucks.
                                                                                                                      The etchings include the road name and the cab numbers

                                                                                                                      The only brand name I can find is on the bottom of the cast lead
                                                                                                                      truck, 'Varney'.

                                                                                                                      I suspect this lead truck is a stock Varney replacement part, or the
                                                                                                                      original from the Varney Hudson that was part of the same estate.

                                                                                                                      Perhaps the etched brass Mohawk is of the same era as the Varney
                                                                                                                      streamliined Hudson, making this quite an old imported Mohawk.

                                                                                                                      I may have read about this one a very long time ago where it's
                                                                                                                      distinctive build was discussed.

                                                                                                                      Is this familiar to anyone???

                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA




                                                                                                                      No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                                                      with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2734 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
                                                                                                                      I think the Lindsey also came to be the HobbyTown of Boston PA body..........

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Feb 17, 2007, at 10:21 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                                                                                      Lindsay did have a PA-1, which I believe was later also made by Kemtron.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Don
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: jay matz

                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                      I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells.
                                                                                                                      I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation.
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2735 From: John Barlow Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: - I Think...B&O
                                                                                                                      Dear Mike,
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      The casting is crude, but the general outline looks like a B&O Royal Blue ("Cinncinatian") loco attempt. American Flyer was famous for that train in "S".
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      I just got this model today.

                                                                                                                      I don't know just which model it is..............

                                                                                                                      I have only a rough idea.......

                                                                                                                      So please play another round of 'Who made this [bronze-cast] HO
                                                                                                                      locomotive' ........

                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                      You'd be proud of the price, but hate me for just how little it cost
                                                                                                                      me !!!!

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA




                                                                                                                      Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2736 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
                                                                                                                      The windows are solid parts of the casting. Rather well defined, but
                                                                                                                      close to 3/16 wall-thickness.

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Feb 17, 2007, at 9:51 PM, John Hagen wrote:

                                                                                                                      > Mike,
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Are the window "openings" solid cast or is it thin, like casting
                                                                                                                      > flash.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > John Hagen
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                                      >> Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney
                                                                                                                      >> Hudson parts.
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2737 From: sean naylor Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk
                                                                                                                      That tender with the embossed NYC logo I sold a while back... The guy who purchased it told me who made it.. I might be able to find the info... It might be an early Japan..
                                                                                                                      Sean

                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      Here's a mystery HO Mohawk I got a long with the Varney Hudson
                                                                                                                      parts.......

                                                                                                                      It is mostly etched brass with white metal lead and trailing trucks.
                                                                                                                      The etchings include the road name and the cab numbers

                                                                                                                      The only brand name I can find is on the bottom of the cast lead
                                                                                                                      truck, 'Varney'.

                                                                                                                      I suspect this lead truck is a stock Varney replacement part, or the
                                                                                                                      original from the Varney Hudson that was part of the same estate.

                                                                                                                      Perhaps the etched brass Mohawk is of the same era as the Varney
                                                                                                                      streamliined Hudson, making this quite an old imported Mohawk.

                                                                                                                      I may have read about this one a very long time ago where it's
                                                                                                                      distinctive build was discussed.

                                                                                                                      Is this familiar to anyone???

                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA




                                                                                                                      Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 2738 From: DLeistikow@webtv.net Date: 2/17/2007
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                        Mike B and list: Well the bronze casting sure looks like a Varney
                                                                                                                        Streamlined Pacific.
                                                                                                                        I have a Varney Catalog from 1941. Pages 22 and 23 have two photographs
                                                                                                                        and a drawing of the streamlined tender.

                                                                                                                        Text reads; The 'Streamliner' embodies all of the desirable features of
                                                                                                                        the most popular of the steam locomotives which have been 'dressed up'.
                                                                                                                        We have made a composite from which it is but a simple task to follow
                                                                                                                        exact prototype design on any one of a half dozen locomotives. The body
                                                                                                                        is heavy enough to impart tremendous pulling power, and long enough to
                                                                                                                        add a four wheeled trailing truck to make a Hudson 4-6-4. The model
                                                                                                                        photographed (above) was assembled from a stock kit, and has not been
                                                                                                                        modified.

                                                                                                                        If further interested, I could have these two pages photostated and get
                                                                                                                        them off to you. A complete price list is also shown.

                                                                                                                        Don L.
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2739 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
                                                                                                                        That sounds like an on-target match.

                                                                                                                        Best to ya'
                                                                                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                        On Feb 17, 2007, at 10:07 PM, jay matz wrote:

                                                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                                                        I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells.
                                                                                                                        I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation.
                                                                                                                        Jay

                                                                                                                        Mike Bauers  wrote:
                                                                                                                        Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney
                                                                                                                        Hudson parts.
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2740 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
                                                                                                                        I don't think so, because Kemtron sold it for many years AFTER the Hobbytown was introduced.  Unless the Lindsay became Hobbytown, and Kemtron did one on their own.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        If there's anything in that bag you don't want, you know where I live! :-)
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Don
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:34 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery PA1

                                                                                                                        I think the Lindsey also came to be the HobbyTown of Boston PA body..........

                                                                                                                        Best to ya'
                                                                                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                        On Feb 17, 2007, at 10:21 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                                                                                        Lindsay did have a PA-1, which I believe was later also made by Kemtron.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Don
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        From: jay matz

                                                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                                                        I have an A-B-A of the same PAs My father bought them in the early 50s came with an lindsay drive in it. The drives are gone but I still have the shells.
                                                                                                                        I don't know who made them,they look like they were a sand casting from a small operation.
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2741 From: oljoeoh Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini Dies
                                                                                                                        Chuck.....
                                                                                                                        I found it on an ebay auction some time ago. No website.
                                                                                                                        It was created by a relative of the original Penn Line
                                                                                                                        owners. I know I've looked at it but don't remember a
                                                                                                                        thing I saw, but I do recall it was interesting to me.

                                                                                                                        Please send me your contact info - ;-).

                                                                                                                        Joe O'Loughlin


                                                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Joe,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > When you find it, is there a website listed on it? Where can one
                                                                                                                        find such
                                                                                                                        > a CD?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout
                                                                                                                        > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > _____
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                                        On Behalf
                                                                                                                        > Of oljoe@...
                                                                                                                        > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:46 PM
                                                                                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early version of the Penn Line Mini
                                                                                                                        > Diesel.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I sure didn't get your email.
                                                                                                                        > That "pink" Whitcomb must have been put there by Lionel :-)).
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I will email you when I see the D-2 on the site.....
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > That idiot that tried to tell you Fleischman made it is
                                                                                                                        > just plain NUTS. It's way too crude for anything Fleischman.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > By the way I have a Penn Line CD put out by one of the
                                                                                                                        > family folks. Don't know where I put it but I'm looking.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Got to take a look at the B/W photo you mentioned.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > sean naylor wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Hello Joe,
                                                                                                                        > > Thaks, I will have to remember to look for them... I did get your
                                                                                                                        > > pics... Thanks.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I emailed this to you the last time... maybe you did not get it or
                                                                                                                        > > missed it....
                                                                                                                        > > Sean
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > See attached following copy of the previous email:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Printable View
                                                                                                                        > > <http://us.f317.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_504
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        59_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&PRINT=1&ShowImages=&YY=69
                                                                                                                        > 498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1>
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&PRINT=1&ShowImages=&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&o
                                                                                                                        > rder=&sort=&pos=0&B=1>
                                                                                                                        > > This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message
                                                                                                                        > > <http://us.f317.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_504
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        59_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&FLG=1&YY=69498&y5beta=yes
                                                                                                                        > &order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1>
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&FLG=1&YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&po
                                                                                                                        > s=0&B=1>
                                                                                                                        > > - Mark as Unread
                                                                                                                        > > <http://us.f317.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        <http://us.f317.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_504
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        59_656_1741_0_53239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&UNR=1&.crumb=Th/PpUeS.wT&
                                                                                                                        > YY=69498&y5beta=yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1>
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?box=Sent&MsgId=1860_5642115_50459_656_1741_0_53
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        239_5208_3649266062&Idx=0&Search=1&UNR=1&.crumb=Th/PpUeS.wT&YY=69498&y5beta=
                                                                                                                        > yes&order=&sort=&pos=0&B=1>
                                                                                                                        > > ]
                                                                                                                        > > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:11:00 -0800 (PST)
                                                                                                                        > > From: "sean naylor" <a69mustang4me@ <mailto:a69mustang4me%40yahoo.com>
                                                                                                                        > yahoo.com> View Contact Details
                                                                                                                        > > View Contact Details
                                                                                                                        > > <http://address.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        <http://address.mail.yahoo.com/yab?.rand=45672&v=SA&A=t&em=a69mustang4me%40y
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        ahoo.com&.done=http%3a%2f%2fus.f317.mail.yahoo.com%2fym%2fShowLetter%3fMsgId
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        %3d1860%5f5642115%5f927%5f656%5f1741%5f50459%5f53239%26sbox%3d%2540S%2540Sea
                                                                                                                        > rch%26Idx%3d0%26pos%3d0%26Search%3d1%26box%3d%40S%40Search%26>
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        > > Subject: Re: did you get the ....
                                                                                                                        > > To: oljoe@landolls. <mailto:oljoe%40landolls.com> com
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I sure did... Thanks. Sorry, I kind of lost my head the past
                                                                                                                        couple of
                                                                                                                        > > days... I have not been paying too much attention to my emails since
                                                                                                                        > > Friday b/c I had 54 N scale engines show up on Friday and I have been
                                                                                                                        > > listing them like crazy to try to get my money back. I like to
                                                                                                                        sell the
                                                                                                                        > > N scale to pay for my HO scale habit. I also fixed both of our
                                                                                                                        toilets
                                                                                                                        > > this weekend and went to a train show in Butler Pa yesterday.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I looked over the pics and they looked great, however they are of
                                                                                                                        > > definite Whitcomb version. There is also a small switcher (like
                                                                                                                        the kind
                                                                                                                        > > you sent) sitting on a large concrete pedestal above/behind a used
                                                                                                                        car
                                                                                                                        > > dealership (why?) near my house... I assume it was painted reddish
                                                                                                                        > > orange at some time, b/c it is almost pink now.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I took the Penn Line?? to the show with me yesterday with the
                                                                                                                        hopes of
                                                                                                                        > > someone being able to confirm the identity of the engine... No
                                                                                                                        > > definitive luck! I had one guy try to tell me - even the Whitcomb!
                                                                                                                        - was
                                                                                                                        > > actually Fleischmann! He said all Penn lines were actually made by
                                                                                                                        > > Fleischmann! I told him that may have been true for some later model,
                                                                                                                        > > but not the early and not the Whitcomb (which has never, to my
                                                                                                                        > > knowledge, been reproduced by anyone other than Penn Line!) What an
                                                                                                                        > > ass... I did not even bother pulling my engine out of it's box...I
                                                                                                                        knew
                                                                                                                        > > right away that guy was a know-it-all who actually knew nothing. I
                                                                                                                        took
                                                                                                                        > > it to another older guy (70's plus in age) I knew from past trading
                                                                                                                        > > (He kit bashed a Penn Central FL-9 which I traded him a bunch of
                                                                                                                        Brass
                                                                                                                        > > detail pieces for.). He immediately said Penn Line... But he had
                                                                                                                        never
                                                                                                                        > > seen one like it before...
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I think my only option now is to go to the source and try to get in
                                                                                                                        > > contact with some descendants of the designer Abe. I found and
                                                                                                                        printed
                                                                                                                        > > out three different addresses on Friday.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Did you get a good look at the black and white photo...? Not the
                                                                                                                        color,
                                                                                                                        > > like you sent me... The other one... There are way too many
                                                                                                                        similarities
                                                                                                                        > > for it not to be Penn Line...
                                                                                                                        > > Thanks again for the pics, Sean
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > oljoe@landolls. <mailto:oljoe%40landolls.com> com wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Did you get the Penn Line photos I sent several days ago.
                                                                                                                        > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                        > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                                                                                                        > > <http://us.rd.
                                                                                                                        > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
                                                                                                                        > yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >
                                                                                                                        > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                                                                                                        > > <http://us.rd.
                                                                                                                        > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail>
                                                                                                                        > yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2742 From: Dst8596587@aol.com Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
                                                                                                                        The engine was produced in 1953 by Imperial and had the etchings as described. In 1954 an ATSF hudson with etched roadname and numerals was also produced. The engine is a 4-8-4 NYC Niagra.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Don
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2743 From: sean naylor Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk...Try "Niagara"
                                                                                                                        I agree... Imperial is the name I could not remember last night..  I purchased the tender originally w/o knowing it had the raised New York Central on the tender... Does not suit well on the New Haven..
                                                                                                                        Sean

                                                                                                                        Dst8596587@... wrote:
                                                                                                                        The engine was produced in 1953 by Imperial and had the etchings as described. In 1954 an ATSF hudson with etched roadname and numerals was also produced. The engine is a 4-8-4 NYC Niagra.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Don


                                                                                                                        Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                                                                                                                        Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2744 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: new (temp? argh) home pic. (&, Central Valley data wanted)
                                                                                                                        great image on the Vintage HO home page now.
                                                                                                                        even if it is just an "ad" for the pic contest.
                                                                                                                        the "trees" do a great job of giving scale to the structure.
                                                                                                                        i had to chuckle seeing that cattle car spotted on the siding, i have
                                                                                                                        the Revell issue (styrene body, die cast underframe, operating doors,
                                                                                                                        vintage Kadee arch-bar talgo trucks) sitting right here, it was a
                                                                                                                        real prize to find in a hobby shop junk box.

                                                                                                                        just finished restoring a few bits of vintage rolling stock that came
                                                                                                                        my way, card-wood 25' hopper w/ Central Valley archbars, wood-kit 25'
                                                                                                                        mini-boxcar w/ CV archbars and actual opening doors, wood-kit crummy
                                                                                                                        w/ leaf-spring CV trucks, got the seams dosed with ACC, vintage CV
                                                                                                                        trucks all, new Kaydee all... in the same junque box was also found
                                                                                                                        several card and wod boxcars, a Binkley Harriman coach in sections
                                                                                                                        (glue had dried and separated), a cardstock blacksmithy (with wooden
                                                                                                                        forge, anvil, water barrel) and a really great card and wood saloon
                                                                                                                        with batwing doors.
                                                                                                                        all items appear to date from pre-WW2.

                                                                                                                        btw, anybody got the run-down on Central Valley as far as production
                                                                                                                        issues and date-of-issue identifying marks?
                                                                                                                        - many of the truck rames have minor zinc rot, but the wheel sets are
                                                                                                                        the marvelous "glass insulated" metal wheels which will be great for
                                                                                                                        interior lighting electrical supply on the cabeese and passenger
                                                                                                                        stock.
                                                                                                                        also, any and all anecdotes on Central Valley are most welcome.

                                                                                                                        cheers

                                                                                                                        ...
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2745 From: takefive247 Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                        John,
                                                                                                                        That's exactly why I asked. The guy even put down the wrong casting
                                                                                                                        numbers. Then shows the photo of them. Did he do it just to throw
                                                                                                                        people off? Or is honestly dumb?

                                                                                                                        Bill

                                                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Ya know, this knd of stuff pis...irratates the heck out of me.
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2746 From: John Hagen Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                        Bill,

                                                                                                                        To update an old adage, "it is better not to key in anything and be
                                                                                                                        thought a fool than it is to key in something and remove all doubt"

                                                                                                                        I think he achieved the latter quite well.

                                                                                                                        John Hagen


                                                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > John,
                                                                                                                        > That's exactly why I asked. The guy even put down the wrong
                                                                                                                        casting
                                                                                                                        > numbers. Then shows the photo of them. Did he do it just to throw
                                                                                                                        > people off? Or is honestly dumb?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Bill
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2747 From: takefive247 Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                        That one I can understand. Appears honest and still in the price
                                                                                                                        range of a serious collector. Very serious collector that is.
                                                                                                                        Bill


                                                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > How about the mint Mantua "Busy Bee" kit at $180 and still
                                                                                                                        going???? JerryG
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2748 From: takefive247 Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                        I guess. But I was brought up to believe trust and a hand shake
                                                                                                                        would get me through life. Today you can't trust the cat. He may be
                                                                                                                        hiding a secret weapon.
                                                                                                                        Bill

                                                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Bill,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > To update an old adage, "it is better not to key in anything and
                                                                                                                        be
                                                                                                                        > thought a fool than it is to key in something and remove all doubt"
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I think he achieved the latter quite well.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > John Hagen
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > John,
                                                                                                                        > > That's exactly why I asked. The guy even put down the wrong
                                                                                                                        > casting
                                                                                                                        > > numbers. Then shows the photo of them. Did he do it just to
                                                                                                                        throw
                                                                                                                        > > people off? Or is honestly dumb?
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Bill
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2749 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                        based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 might bring?  (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the NMRA Howell Day Museum.)
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                        I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean

                                                                                                                        Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@gvtc. com> wrote:

                                                                                                                        How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG

                                                                                                                        From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM
                                                                                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net>
                                                                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                        > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                        > Bill

                                                                                                                        I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on
                                                                                                                        "HO".

                                                                                                                        1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting
                                                                                                                        bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id
                                                                                                                        be tempted to go $25.00.

                                                                                                                        Don

                                                                                                                        don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                        http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                        Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                        Co-owner
                                                                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY


                                                                                                                        Don't pick lemons.
                                                                                                                        See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2750 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Mystery PA1
                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                        Possibly Lindsay?  They had some early ALCo locos in HO--I think that Kemtron and then Hobbytown marketed the FA
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:38 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery PA1

                                                                                                                        Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney Hudson parts.

                                                                                                                        Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting??

                                                                                                                        It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts. I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose since there are no other open regions in the casting.


                                                                                                                        ?
                                                                                                                        Best to ya'
                                                                                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA



                                                                                                                        Here's a shiny aluminum HO PA1 I got in the same bag as the Varney 
                                                                                                                        Hudson parts.

                                                                                                                        Can anyone recognise just who made this Santa Fe style metal casting?

                                                                                                                        It's filed and drilled underneath for some sort of bolster mounts. 
                                                                                                                        I'm guessing the buyer drilled out the two headlights on the nose 
                                                                                                                        since there are no other open regions in the casting.
                                                                                                                        Best to ya'
                                                                                                                        Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                        Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2751 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 1930 mantua?
                                                                                                                        See  120087209321  It is a Mantua Busy Bee going for $39.00.(current bid as of just now)
                                                                                                                        I feel tempted to try for that one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Wobbly913

                                                                                                                        Glenn Joesten <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        based on that, I wonder what a mint MDC SP 0-6-0 kit from 1948 might bring?  (Not that I'd sell it--I'm thinking of giving it to the NMRA Howell Day Museum.)
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:15 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                        I am the one who told the guy it was a Busy Bee.. man am I shocked at the price... Sean

                                                                                                                        Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@gvtc. com> wrote:
                                                                                                                        How about the mint Mantua “Busy Bee” kit at $180 and still going????  JerryG

                                                                                                                        From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:vintageHO@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:02 PM
                                                                                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        From: "takefive247" <takefive@snet. net>
                                                                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:18 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] 1930 mantua?

                                                                                                                        > Has anyone seen this listing on E-bay? Any comment? 160086805309
                                                                                                                        > Bill

                                                                                                                        I'll say the same thing here I said in response to your posting over on
                                                                                                                        "HO".

                                                                                                                        1950's, not 1930's, not brass, BUT, at least the seller put a fair starting
                                                                                                                        bid on it. If it was closer to the end of the month and "allowance day" Id
                                                                                                                        be tempted to go $25.00.

                                                                                                                        Don

                                                                                                                        don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                        http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                        Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                        Co-owner
                                                                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY


                                                                                                                        Don't pick lemons.
                                                                                                                        See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.


                                                                                                                        Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                                                                                                                        in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 2752 From: Glenn Joesten Date: 2/18/2007
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Mystery Mohawk
                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                        Several early imports had the road name and number etched in relief on them. 
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 8:20 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Mohawk

                                                                                                                        Here's a mystery HO Mohawk I got a long with the Varney Hudson parts.......

                                                                                                                        It is mostly etched brass with white metal lead and trailing trucks. The etchings include the road name and the cab numbers

                                                                                                                        The only brand name I can find is on the bottom of the cast lead truck, 'Varney'.

                                                                                                                        I suspect this lead truck is? a stock Varney replacement part, or the original from the Varney Hudson that was part of the same estate.

                                                                                                                        Perhaps the etched brass Mohawk is of the same era as the Varney streamliined Hudson, making this quite an old imported Mohawk.